May 30, 2024 • 36 mins
Verdict watch continues. Joe Scarborough tells Democrats to stop freaking out. Are there any undecided voters? Trump team texts Clay a message from Trump. Former Trump aide Kash Patel joins Clay and Buck to let us know what he picked up from watching the jury in the Trump trial. Undecided voter tells C&B Trump's VP pick will be the deciding factor for him.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome in Clay Travis buck Sexton show. Our number two
Jury Watch continues.
Speaker 2 (00:08):
Can I just say every time Clay his eyebrow moves
a certain way, or his hand twitches or anything, I'm like,
oh God, we have a verdicts.
Speaker 1 (00:17):
We're both looking at screens and looking at our computers.
I just I mean, I'm going to set a record
all time. I bet for refreshes of Twitter today during
the course of the show. For those of you just
sitting down. The latest update. This morning, the jury instructions
as well as some of the court testimony, was reread
(00:40):
to the jurors. They returned to the courtroom to begin
their deliberations starting at nine to thirty am Eastern. We
are now coming up on an additional four hours of
jury deliberations today. They did not get a verdict yesterday,
which I took as a good sign for Trump. We
(01:00):
now are into Trump. That would mean to me that
there is someone in that jury room, maybe more than
one person who is unwilling to vote guilty. Now, to
be fair, there are a lot of different outcomes here.
It could be there's one person who is unwilling to
vote not guilty, right, could be eleven of the testimony
(01:22):
to be explicated, and I believe they are scheduled to
continue deliberations till six pm to night this evening. If
they have not reached a jury verdict by then, they
would be dismissed and they would come back on Friday.
At some point, the jury may get fed up. They
(01:44):
may have done a ton of different polling of that jury,
and if they're constantly at eleven to one or ten
to two, they might come back to the judge and
say we are at loggerheads. That is, we're at disagreement.
Nothing is moving, nothing is changing. That becomes frustrating for
both sides. Then typically what would happen is they would
(02:08):
come back and they would say we haven't been able
to reach a verdict. And at that point, usually the
judge would tell them, well go back, try again. And
at some point I don't know how long that process
could play out. That's why I've said I think if
it goes into the weekend, the judge would say, Okay,
think about this over the weekend, come back Monday, and
(02:29):
if you still haven't been able to reach a verdict,
then we will declare that this is a hung jury
and that there is no result. Certainly I don't believe
Merchand wants that. The judge, I think he wants a
Trump conviction. We know Alvin Bragg wants a Trump conviction.
We know most people in New York City want a
Trump conviction. But perhaps as we sit here in I
(02:52):
believe we're now entering roughly buck the eighth hour of
jury deliberation the second day. The longer this goes on,
the more I would believe that it would benefit Trump.
So that is where we are as this process continues
to play out. Now would ask the team in our
New York studio to kind of be paying attention to
(03:13):
what the comments are on CNN and MSNBC, where I
would think the longer this goes on, the more nervous
they get about how this process is itself playing out
and uh and so we'll see uh that that is
(03:34):
basically we're in the waiting game, like all of you.
Speaker 2 (03:37):
You you want to uh, you want to switch up
something for a second here, cause well you got you
see that the the backlash against the Ilito ambush has
grown noticeably over the last twenty four hours.
Speaker 1 (03:52):
It it really was a.
Speaker 2 (03:54):
A stumbling block for them when the uh when the
appeal to heaven flag, remember when you talked about that
yesterday on the show, that the appeal to having flags
outside the Civic Center, which I think is basically the
same as their city hall, their city hall city hall
in San Francisco, So it has been flying out there
for decades. But the funny part to me is that
(04:14):
they took it down, like as though that somehow it was.
Speaker 1 (04:18):
Up there for decades.
Speaker 2 (04:20):
They were trying to leverage, leverage this story in the
New York Times in depth. I mean, it was a
long story to put pressure on Alito. But I also
love the Alito response to all this, which is effectively
a solitary finger extended in response to the media's efforts here.
(04:42):
And I think that we need more of that kind
of attitude when they're trying to pressure Supreme Court justices.
I mean, what they're really doing is at a minimum,
undermining the legitimacy of the decision that I think they
all realize is going to be coming down in about
the next thirty days, which will say that there is
some presidential immunity actually, and you need to review this
(05:05):
charge against Trump in light of that immunity. You know,
reality and they're gonna be very upset about that. They
may very well go, well, let's see. I don't know.
I'm starting to feel like all of their plans, like
they've thrown so many things at the wall that they
assumed something would come through for them, But so far
(05:26):
everything is backfiring on them. I when was the last
time you saw something the media tried against Trump work
in a way that the Trump campaign was concerned about it,
or that the numbers were moving?
Speaker 1 (05:39):
Do you know what I mean.
Speaker 2 (05:40):
I can't think of anything in a while where I've gone, oh, man,
they they got them on that one. I think they're
we're oh, oh, this is the Joe Scarborough thing. By
the way, we mentioned this, I wanted to get to this.
Joe Scarborough is telling everybody, don't panic, everything is fine,
stop freaking out. This is cut through team play it.
(06:01):
I'm here to tell you.
Speaker 3 (06:02):
The freaking out, the Democratic freaking out, is just so tiring.
I think the thing that bothers me the most is
they're freaking out about things in a national campaign. They're
freaking out, whether it's about this obsession with the national
race and the national pulling, whether it's truth, social tweets,
whether it's all the crazy things and confused things. Donald
(06:23):
Trump says at rallies, that's fine, But this race is
not going to be one in the courthouse in Manhattan,
regardless of the outcome of the case. It's going to
be one by knocking on doors in Kenosha. But again,
the stupidity that I've been listening to over the past
several months about how this race is over and Democrats
are freaking out and Trumpers are so overconfident.
Speaker 2 (06:46):
I don't think anyone has said that this is over,
to be clear, But.
Speaker 4 (06:51):
Is this just.
Speaker 2 (06:52):
Denihilism or is is Joe cool like the other side
of the pillow. He understands that they're going to try
to pull some shenanigans. It does matter that Biden's a clown.
Speaker 1 (07:04):
So I just keep looking at this and saying, their
clear plan has been foiled in many ways associated with
keeping Trump in a courtroom for the entire season. They
were right. I believe that Republicans rallied around Trump and
made him the nominee. They've been totally wrong about how
(07:26):
it would impact the national election. And for people out
there who say, oh, the polls are wrong, I understand
your argument. I disagree with it because Biden is spending
tens of millions of dollars and the polls really aren't
moving very much. Whatever you think about the polls, they
(07:47):
aren't adjusting substantially in any direction based on much of
what's occurring, which, to me buck is actually very logical
because we've never had a double incumbent race before. And
so the point I'm making here is what could make
someone change their opinion of Biden or Trump at this point.
(08:11):
Now I understand the argument of what's the turnout going
to be, which voters are going to show up?
Speaker 2 (08:18):
All of that always fensitters, right, They're always undecided. That's
what the whole election turns into is how do we
get the undecided? How do we get the fences.
Speaker 1 (08:25):
I don't even think there are actually any undecideds at
this point. I just we have we have everybody has
made and come up with an opinion of Donald Trump,
everybody I believe has made and come up with an
opinion of Joe Biden. And so I think the number
of movable people is tiny, and I think what we're
(08:48):
going to see is what we have already seen for
much of the last six months, which is opinions are
pretty fixed, and Biden's going to have to run the
table in Wisconsin, Michigan, and Pennsylvania to be president of
the United States. That's it. That's his only path. He's
(09:09):
not gonna flip North Carolina. I think he's very likely
to lose Georgia, in Arizona and maybe Nevada. And if
you look at the map and you just I think
we're gonna be saying this for the next five months.
If you look at the math, this is a Wisconsin, Pennsylvania,
Michigan race and Biden has to win all three and
(09:30):
Trump just has to win one of them. Now, there
are other aspects out there. We talked about yesterday. Virginia
there's a tie pole there, Minnesota, New Hampshire. There are
other states that could loom large here. But if they
loom large, Trump is winning. I don't see a pathway
where Biden's calculus allows him to win Without Wisconsin, Pennsylvania,
(09:57):
and Michigan. Trump has the chance to blow up the right.
I mean, he could win Virginia. That election result could
come down at nine o'clock Eastern and everybody's gonna say,
you know what, this race is over. Biden doesn't have
that chess piece on the board right now, and I
don't see it moving. And here's what I'll say. He
just hit an all time low for approval ratings. I
(10:20):
actually think the more time people consider the incumbent, the
less likely they are to circle back around to him.
They're more likely, I think, to decide, you know what,
these expenses are crazy. I'm frustrated. I'm unhappy. Inflation is
out of control, things cost what they shouldn't. I'm disappointed.
(10:44):
I'm gonna throw the bum in office out of power.
I think that's where we're headed right now, five months out.
Unless and we've been talking about this, is there? I
just what is new about Trump? What could you hear
about Trump? And you'd be like, you know what, this
totally changes my opinion of Trump.
Speaker 2 (11:03):
Well, you know there's one thing that used to used
to hear about a lot. And I remember this from
the good old Trump days twenty sixteen to twenty twenty.
People would say, particularly with the Twitter stuff at the time,
oh you know, he's it's too much. Or you'd have
people who were nominally Republicans, like Mitt Romney style Republicans
who would say things about how they like the policies,
(11:25):
but they don't approve of his style.
Speaker 1 (11:27):
Stuff like that.
Speaker 2 (11:28):
Well, right now the guy's being dragged into court all
over the place and isn't on Twitter, and so he's
not able to I think he's not able to get
to that level of maybe overexposure where some people start
to forget about the good policies and focus in on
you know, I don't like his course language or whatever.
We're slicing the onion thin here, to be clear, but
(11:51):
that's the best I can do for you on you know,
where people on the right at least may start to tire.
I guess a little bit of Trump in some way,
but I don't see that happening this time. That's the thing.
It's the number. I mean, that's not reflected in the numbers.
It would just be Could that happen in the future.
I don't know. But I actually am fascinated by this.
(12:11):
Do we have an undecided voter listening right now? I
would really want to hear this, Like, do we have
somebody who has voted Republican and has voted demonstrating to
us right now, listening to us right now? So you
voted for you know, you voted for Trump once, you
voted for Biden once and now you really don't know.
(12:33):
I'd be fascinated, and we will. I'm not looking to,
you know, antagonize anybody. We love that you listen and
we appreciate it. But I would just be fascinated to
hear what that thought process is. Because Clay, you know,
you keep saying no one's gonna change their mind. Dude,
a lot of people still watch like America's got talent
and and are just focused on, you know, paying the
(12:56):
electricity bill, and they're not.
Speaker 4 (12:58):
They're not.
Speaker 2 (12:59):
Are people like everyone listening right now who's tuned into
this stuff?
Speaker 1 (13:02):
So I get that, you know, but the data reflects
that most of the time, you know how an undecided
voter is going to end up voting even when they're undecided.
Like you can go in and you can be like, okay,
what is your answer to these six questions? They typically
break one way or the other. You can kind of
have a sense. I think the bigger question right now
(13:23):
than how is this all going to break down? Because
my belief is that basically everybody's made up their minds
is how many people show up? Because that is the
question to me, if you are a low propensity voter
in Philadelphia, are you going to go stand in line
and vote? If you're a low propensity voter in you know, uh,
Northern Michigan, are you going to go stand in line
(13:45):
and vote? Because those can cut different ways, and that
really goes to the strength of the candidate. Turnout, to
me is a more interesting debate than the personal opinions
because turnout can swing an election three or four points.
That's clearly the kind of election we're going to have.
Who's more motivated, what base is going to do a
(14:07):
better job of getting out their voters. Clearly Democrats have
done a better job getting their base out in twenty
and twenty twenty two on average.
Speaker 2 (14:16):
I can't imagine. I can't imagine the person who voted
for Trump in twenty sixteen and in twenty twenty and
wouldn't show up this time. You know, that's an I'm
just trying to get in the mind.
Speaker 1 (14:29):
I think the Biden people are less motivated now because
in twenty twenty you could buy into the idea because
of COVID all the Trump is the World's coming to
an end.
Speaker 2 (14:41):
Yeah, and had some residence. Well, also, you're hearing a
lot less you notice about like threats to democracy right now.
Speaker 1 (14:47):
It doesn't work when you're trying to put your chief
political opponent in prison the rest of his life.
Speaker 2 (14:51):
Yeah, they may have actually taken their most potent political
weapon off the board by trying to make something even
more potent, which is this lawfair campaign. Come back into
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Speaker 5 (16:22):
Twenty four on You podcast from Clay and Buck covering
all things Election episodes Drum Sundays at noon Eastern. Find
it on the free iHeartRadio app or wherever you get
your podcasts.
Speaker 2 (16:34):
Welcome back into Clay and Buck. We have Cash Patel
joining us in this three minutes. He is a close
advisor to President Trump, worked for him at the do
OD Senior Pentagon guy back in the Trump years, and
he's following this very closely. We'll talk to about what
he's hearing from the Trump team is there. It's a
(16:55):
lot of hurry up and wait, as they say in
the military right now, a lot of hurry up and wait.
Where you know, we're gonna talk about some other things.
I think we might just get into some other topics
as we're sitting here, because the amount of you know,
the amount of analysis we can do about well, it
could be or it couldn't be, or it could be
or it couldn't be. He started to run a little
(17:16):
out of steam on that after a while. There are
some other stories they'll clay, like the Boston mayor deciding
that maybe they should just stop enforcing the law. We'll
talk about it.
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Speaker 5 (18:21):
Lee Travis and Buck Sexton on the front lines of truth.
Speaker 1 (18:25):
Welcome back in. I texted. I texted with the Trump
team as they are sitting waiting for a jury verdict,
and just said, hey, does Trump want to call into
the show? And they shot back and said they don't
want to do that while they're waiting, but they wanted
to pass this message along from Trump himself to all
of you rig trial, corrupt judge. But I have the
(18:48):
facts all caps on my side. Testimony conclusively showed that
I clearly stated I don't buy stories all caps. So
that is from Trump himself as they sit waiting in
the court house for this verdict to come back. We
are joined now by a guy who knows the president
(19:10):
pretty well, Cashptel, and has also had to deal with
a lot of this law there on many different levels.
So let's start with the question that everybody is asking.
What do you think this jury is thinking right now? Cash?
How do you think they are going about their deliberations?
Do you agree that the longer this goes on potentially
(19:31):
the better this could be for Trump? What should we
know from your perspective as we sit here waiting to
see what's going to happen.
Speaker 4 (19:39):
Thank it's great to be with you guys, And the
best perspective you just got it was from the President
Trump himself, but for my chair as a former federal
prosecutor and public defender who tried sixty of these cases
to verdict in state and federal court and was with
the President all day last week when the Costello testimony
hit the stand, I saw jurors. I observed the jurors
because I was my They found Bob Costello, with their
(20:02):
mannerisms credible. I also watched the jurors when they were
watching Michael Cohen lie through their teeth, and not a
single one of the jurors would make eye contact with
Michael Cohen, but they were all looking intently at Bob Costello.
To me, from a credibility standpoint, that means the jury
saw what we saw, what the world saw was the truth.
But from that vantage point, when you put them back
(20:24):
in the jury room, it's a different story. They are
looking now to see if there's anyone on there that's
going to hold the line and find Donald Trump not
guilty based on the facts of the law, or whether
they're going to do what we call splitting the baby
because he's caught charge with thirty four counts.
Speaker 6 (20:41):
Are they going to say, let's just go home.
Speaker 4 (20:43):
We'll ask a few questions, will make it look like
we did our jobs, and we'll convict them of one
or two things. So the Biden administration can have the
headline that Donald Trump's a convicted fell and there's really
no way to read it in terms of time back
in the jury room.
Speaker 2 (20:55):
Hey Cash, it's buck good to have you on as always,
and drawing upon your time as a prosecutor in the past,
have you ever seen anything like this. We mentioned it
maybe earlier in the hour, where a prosecutor takes one
alleged act, one alleged and I didn't even like to
say this is criminal, because I don't even think it is.
(21:15):
But put that aside, one alleged criminal act and then
just counts it dozens of times the same thing because
of like xerox machines and emails or something.
Speaker 1 (21:25):
Do you know what I mean? Have you ever seen
this before?
Speaker 4 (21:29):
No? Never, It's not even that I haven't seen one
of these acts before. It to me is astounding that
I keep seeing so many unconstitutional acts in just one trial,
whether it's the jury instructions, which were literally the first
time I've ever heard that a verdict does not have
to be unanimous. The Supreme Court has clearly established that
every element of every crime charge must be unanimously found
(21:51):
beyond a reasonable doubt in order to convict the defendant.
Speaker 5 (21:54):
Then you have the.
Speaker 4 (21:55):
Government Alvin Bragg here pasting together thirty four times over
a felony that they made up out of thin air,
which they have no jurisdiction to do because they do
not have the authority to govern sec regulations and violations,
not to mention that fact, as the FEC and the
DJ said, Donald Trump did not commit those violations. But
what they're hoping for is to throw everything against the
(22:17):
wall prosecution and hope one piece of spaghetti sticks. And
that's what you get when you have this sort of
thirty four x rubber stamp prosecution. You hope to basically
inflame the jurors so much to say, wow, thirty four felonies,
he must have done something wrong, So we got to
find him guilty of at least one thing. That's their hope,
But that's not the law.
Speaker 1 (22:38):
Cash. A couple of questions for you, because you've got
good experience in these matters. We were taking calls from listeners.
One asked, Okay, if there's a hung jury, how fast
could they try Trump again? I'm curious what you've ever
seen in terms of the turnaround on a rapid case
(22:58):
like this second part. Do you agree with me that
this is a almost one hundred percent certain case that's
going to be reversed on appeal And what do you
think the strongest grounds for that reversal would be.
Speaker 4 (23:15):
Yeah, Look, in due course, you could go from a
hungary to a trial relatively quickly, but here in the
details we exposed yet another corrupt activity by this judge.
This judge has Steve Bannon's case. This judge has a
Trump organization's case. This judge, it was supposed to be
given these cases or the cases were supposed to be
distributed anonymously, somehow found all three of them and he
(23:38):
set to try Steve Bennon right after Donald Trump. So
I don't know how that would happen if that's already
the trial posture for the summer, it would seem to
me impossible. But in terms of it being what we
call reversible error, meaning there's an issue of law that
was so blatantly unconstitutional the whole case gets reversed. I
think it's littered with reversible error from the jury instruction
that we just talked about, to the the actual indictment
(24:01):
itself about bootstrapping a federal issue to a misdemeanor at
the state level, just to raise it to a felony,
and then whether or not this jurisdictional office at the
DAS has the ability to prosecute this case or just
three of them. But as we talked about, those issues
will take two to three years on appeal to litigate.
All these guys care about is a misinformation headline that
(24:23):
Donald Trump is a convicted fellon for the next four
months to run that tape out in the court of
public opinion.
Speaker 2 (24:29):
Speaking of Cash Patel, who was a member of the
Trump DoD he was acting chief of staff at the
Pentagon when Trump was in office, and Cash and also
former federal prosecutor Cash, if the situation here turns into
a guilty verdict, what do you think they're going to do?
Speaker 4 (24:51):
I mean, if the situation is turned into a guilty
verdict and this judge does not allow Donald Trump to
what we call stay out of custody pending appeal, then
I think that any jail time that is put upon
Donald Trump is going to cause the American public to
rightly so have a reaction that sends Donald Trump to
(25:11):
the White House basically overnight. I know the election's far away,
but I think that's what's going to be the reaction.
At least that's what I've observed when I've been in
around the courtroom and around the country when I talk
to people about what if Donald Trump's imprisoned in this matter,
and Americans not only don't have the stomach for that.
Americans don't want to see the weaponized system of justice
decide for them who they get to vote for on
(25:34):
election day come November fifth. So this judge would be
wise to allow Donald Trump to do everything he's been
doing pending the course of appeal. But again, we've seen
what this judge has done, one unconstitutional act at a time.
So you have no idea what he's going to do
because he's in it for the prosecution, he's in it
for the Democrats, and he's in it for his daughter
to make some more money while he turns out this
(25:55):
disinformation campaign from his courtroom.
Speaker 1 (25:57):
Gosh, how nervous do you think think the prosecution is
right now? As we're now coming up on eight or
nine hours of deliberation, do you think they expected to
get a guilty verdict faster than this? Do you think
as this time continues to grow, questions get asked that
they get more nervous about the idea of this being
(26:19):
a hung jury. How would you take us into their
mind so far as you.
Speaker 4 (26:22):
Could, Yeah, from prosecutorial standpoint in this case, with a
judge who is basically on your team, I would have
expected a prosecution within the hour based upon the exclusion
of all evidence of innocence. So remember when the judge
excluded evidence that was outside the presence of the jury.
You and I have talked and read about it. But
the jury doesn't even know about half of Bob Prostello's
(26:44):
testimony or the legal expert that President Donald Trump wanted
to bring in about campaign finance law that would have
exonerated Donald Trump. They have had a limited scope of information.
So even with that limited scope of information, they're sitting
back there saying, wait a second, We're in day two,
and the prosecutor's got to be freaking out a little
bit because they've already returned with questions that directly speak
to the elements of the crimes charged and questions about
(27:07):
the burden of proof. To me, that show that they
are considering across the board whether or not the prosecutors
have met their burden of proof. So if I were
the prosecutors in this case, I'd be a little scared.
And the longer goes on, I think it enores the
benefit of President Trump.
Speaker 2 (27:23):
Cash again a timeline question. Having been in the role
of federal prosecutor yourself, do you think that Jack Smith,
I'm sorry switching gears here. I know we're all waiting
for the New York City verdict, but do you think
the Jack Smith is going to try to at least
begin the January sixth DC based trial before the election
(27:45):
or is it just functionally impossible for him to do so.
Speaker 4 (27:50):
Well, right now, what we call it is he and
Judge Tucken are seized of jurisdictions. The presidential immunity presidential
privileged question is before the United States Supreme Court, so
they can't even issue a scheduling order or request a
judge issue a scheduling order because they do not have
the authority under the law with the case of the
Supreme Court to do anything at the trial level. Should
(28:11):
the court return a verdict or see the a decision
this summer, which I think they will in June or July,
remember that whole clock restarts and they have to take
the case based up the direction of the Supreme Court's decisions,
and then the defense is going to rightfully so file
motions to dismiss the case outright or a number of
charges based on the Supreme Court decision. So I just
(28:33):
don't see it getting there. And this is why I
think everyone's so focused on Alvin Braggs. It was the
last case everybody anyone cared about because they thought Georgia
would come in first, They thought Washington, DC would come
in first, they thought Florida would come in first. But
now they see that through the exposition of all the
unconstitutional acts in those cases collectively, their last straw is
New York. And I think that's what they're putting all
(28:54):
their eggs in one basket for What.
Speaker 1 (28:56):
Else do you think we should know about this case
that we haven't asked you? What should be a top
of mind? And we're talking about the New York City
case in particular here as this jury deliberation continues, what
do you want our audience to know?
Speaker 4 (29:12):
You, As a former officer of the court who's been
on both sides of this thing, I want the audience
to think of the following. Do you want constitutional due
process to be selectively applied to you and those you
love in your community and your family based on your
political preferences? Do you want a ruling elite to come
down upon you and your community and say you disagree
(29:34):
with how we want to conduct our government, so we
are going to prosecute you based on made up crimes.
I think for me, this is the existential judicial question
of our time. Anyone who wants to see Donald Trump
convicted wants to light our constitution on fire, and we
cannot have that just because you disagree with his political orientation.
To me, this is the most important case of our lifetime,
(29:56):
and America and the world are watching. We are no
longer a standard of beacon of justice if we get
this case wrong.
Speaker 1 (30:04):
High stakes. Indeed, he's kash Ptel. We appreciate the time.
I'm sure we'll be talking to you again soon.
Speaker 4 (30:10):
Thanks, jan have a great day.
Speaker 1 (30:11):
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For those who serve.
Speaker 5 (31:43):
Need a break from follozis a little comedy to counter
the craziness, so do we The Sunday.
Speaker 1 (31:50):
Hang, a weekend podcast to lighten things up a bit.
Speaker 5 (31:53):
Find it in the Clay and Buck podcast feed, on
the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts.
Speaker 2 (32:00):
Them back into Clay and Buck. We are going to
continue Verdict watch Dun Dun dund This is an ominous
sound effect that I made in case you didn't know.
We're going to continue to look for well, hopefully it's
not ominous at all in the sense that or it
won't be that we'll get at least a hung jury here.
But we'll see, we'll see, and we're going to talk
(32:21):
also about the situation that Biden faces, not just the
overall low approval numbers he's got, but also the lack
of support that is showing up in the data for
Biden among young black male voters, which is a demographic
that Biden needs to do very, very well with or
(32:43):
else it's all over for him in the election. We'll
get to that. But I asked this question aloud, and
we have one. Is there somebody out there who is
an independent voter who voted for Trump, then voted for
Biden and is now on the fence in North Carolina?
You claim to be one of the few. Good to
(33:03):
have you on.
Speaker 7 (33:04):
I am that's honor to talk to you, guys. I'll
listen to you all the time when I'm I traveling.
Speaker 2 (33:10):
Thank you.
Speaker 7 (33:11):
Yeah, I kind of classify myself this election cycle, say
I'm a rape.
Speaker 6 (33:15):
What I consider to be a Reagan Conservative.
Speaker 7 (33:20):
I like that's the era of the time period that
I grew up, and I am in this election kind
of what I guess you consider a dangerous voter.
Speaker 6 (33:30):
Because I don't know who to vote for them.
Speaker 7 (33:34):
I voted in the twenty sixteen election for mister Trump
for the fact that we had eight years of the
Clinton and I was not a big fan of their policies.
Speaker 2 (33:45):
Can I ask you, and I want to ask these
questions and it's just as straightforward to fascist possible, because
I don't want to try to lead you one way
or the other, and I just want to hear what
you have to say. Did you think that Trump did
a good job in his four years because you voted
for Biden? So what happened?
Speaker 6 (34:04):
I do think that some of the policies that he
had were good for the country.
Speaker 7 (34:09):
When gas costs more to put in your car, when
a gap a dozen eggs cost more to buy than
a gallon of gas, we got a problem.
Speaker 6 (34:18):
Towards the end of mister Trump's term in office.
Speaker 7 (34:21):
I was paying a dollar sixty five at gallon for gas.
Speaker 6 (34:24):
Now it's twice that, and you know we shouldn't be
paying that.
Speaker 7 (34:29):
There's no, wady, Okay, the big problem that I have
and why did you switch?
Speaker 4 (34:35):
Then?
Speaker 1 (34:35):
Why did? I'm sorry to cut you off, and I'm
just kind of fascinated. So you voted for Trump in sixteen,
you voted for Biden in twenty twenty. What was the
reason why you switched?
Speaker 7 (34:47):
The big reason is I guess it was the way
I was raised.
Speaker 6 (34:51):
Just because you can.
Speaker 7 (34:52):
Think something does not necessarily mean it needs to come
out of your mouth.
Speaker 2 (34:57):
Jim Trump decorum. This is what I was saying.
Speaker 1 (34:59):
You were bothered by his temperament. Okay, So now what
are you What's going to make your decision in twenty
four How do you? How do you what what matters
to you the most? You mentioned gas prices? What's what
will make you pull the trigger one way or the other?
Speaker 6 (35:16):
Who he picks for a vice president? Now I'm carefully
the reason.
Speaker 1 (35:21):
Who would you want him to pick? Who would be
a pick? And you would say, I'm one hundred percent
voting for Trump one.
Speaker 6 (35:28):
Or two people. If he picks Roan DeSantis, Okay, if
he pulls the plug and picks Nikki Haley, it's a
done deal. I'll vote for him, no problem, no, because
all right, yeah, what I'm looking at with both of
these two candidates for me is age because he says
(35:51):
that neither one of them they may do four years,
which means you have to have.
Speaker 1 (35:55):
A confidence VP and play Jim Jim.
Speaker 2 (35:58):
We're about to come into a break. I just want
they thank you for calling in, thank you for taking
our questions and the spirit in which they were offered.
We're gonna analyze this a little bit more. That was
very interesting though, But Clay, this is what I was
saying about the people that without him on Twitter and
without him constantly present, some people were bothered by Trump's
style and his tone. Who are Republican voters. We'll come
(36:20):
back and talk about them,
Welcome in Clay Travis buck Sexton show. Our number two
Jury Watch continues.
Speaker 2 (00:08):
Can I just say every time Clay his eyebrow moves
a certain way, or his hand twitches or anything, I'm like,
oh God, we have a verdicts.
Speaker 1 (00:17):
We're both looking at screens and looking at our computers.
I just I mean, I'm going to set a record
all time. I bet for refreshes of Twitter today during
the course of the show. For those of you just
sitting down. The latest update. This morning, the jury instructions
as well as some of the court testimony, was reread
(00:40):
to the jurors. They returned to the courtroom to begin
their deliberations starting at nine to thirty am Eastern. We
are now coming up on an additional four hours of
jury deliberations today. They did not get a verdict yesterday,
which I took as a good sign for Trump. We
(01:00):
now are into Trump. That would mean to me that
there is someone in that jury room, maybe more than
one person who is unwilling to vote guilty. Now, to
be fair, there are a lot of different outcomes here.
It could be there's one person who is unwilling to
vote not guilty, right, could be eleven of the testimony
(01:22):
to be explicated, and I believe they are scheduled to
continue deliberations till six pm to night this evening. If
they have not reached a jury verdict by then, they
would be dismissed and they would come back on Friday.
At some point, the jury may get fed up. They
(01:44):
may have done a ton of different polling of that jury,
and if they're constantly at eleven to one or ten
to two, they might come back to the judge and
say we are at loggerheads. That is, we're at disagreement.
Nothing is moving, nothing is changing. That becomes frustrating for
both sides. Then typically what would happen is they would
(02:08):
come back and they would say we haven't been able
to reach a verdict. And at that point, usually the
judge would tell them, well go back, try again. And
at some point I don't know how long that process
could play out. That's why I've said I think if
it goes into the weekend, the judge would say, Okay,
think about this over the weekend, come back Monday, and
(02:29):
if you still haven't been able to reach a verdict,
then we will declare that this is a hung jury
and that there is no result. Certainly I don't believe
Merchand wants that. The judge, I think he wants a
Trump conviction. We know Alvin Bragg wants a Trump conviction.
We know most people in New York City want a
Trump conviction. But perhaps as we sit here in I
(02:52):
believe we're now entering roughly buck the eighth hour of
jury deliberation the second day. The longer this goes on,
the more I would believe that it would benefit Trump.
So that is where we are as this process continues
to play out. Now would ask the team in our
New York studio to kind of be paying attention to
(03:13):
what the comments are on CNN and MSNBC, where I
would think the longer this goes on, the more nervous
they get about how this process is itself playing out
and uh and so we'll see uh that that is
(03:34):
basically we're in the waiting game, like all of you.
Speaker 2 (03:37):
You you want to uh, you want to switch up
something for a second here, cause well you got you
see that the the backlash against the Ilito ambush has
grown noticeably over the last twenty four hours.
Speaker 1 (03:52):
It it really was a.
Speaker 2 (03:54):
A stumbling block for them when the uh when the
appeal to heaven flag, remember when you talked about that
yesterday on the show, that the appeal to having flags
outside the Civic Center, which I think is basically the
same as their city hall, their city hall city hall
in San Francisco, So it has been flying out there
for decades. But the funny part to me is that
(04:14):
they took it down, like as though that somehow it was.
Speaker 1 (04:18):
Up there for decades.
Speaker 2 (04:20):
They were trying to leverage, leverage this story in the
New York Times in depth. I mean, it was a
long story to put pressure on Alito. But I also
love the Alito response to all this, which is effectively
a solitary finger extended in response to the media's efforts here.
(04:42):
And I think that we need more of that kind
of attitude when they're trying to pressure Supreme Court justices.
I mean, what they're really doing is at a minimum,
undermining the legitimacy of the decision that I think they
all realize is going to be coming down in about
the next thirty days, which will say that there is
some presidential immunity actually, and you need to review this
(05:05):
charge against Trump in light of that immunity. You know,
reality and they're gonna be very upset about that. They
may very well go, well, let's see. I don't know.
I'm starting to feel like all of their plans, like
they've thrown so many things at the wall that they
assumed something would come through for them, But so far
(05:26):
everything is backfiring on them. I when was the last
time you saw something the media tried against Trump work
in a way that the Trump campaign was concerned about it,
or that the numbers were moving?
Speaker 1 (05:39):
Do you know what I mean.
Speaker 2 (05:40):
I can't think of anything in a while where I've gone, oh, man,
they they got them on that one. I think they're
we're oh, oh, this is the Joe Scarborough thing. By
the way, we mentioned this, I wanted to get to this.
Joe Scarborough is telling everybody, don't panic, everything is fine,
stop freaking out. This is cut through team play it.
(06:01):
I'm here to tell you.
Speaker 3 (06:02):
The freaking out, the Democratic freaking out, is just so tiring.
I think the thing that bothers me the most is
they're freaking out about things in a national campaign. They're
freaking out, whether it's about this obsession with the national
race and the national pulling, whether it's truth, social tweets,
whether it's all the crazy things and confused things. Donald
(06:23):
Trump says at rallies, that's fine, But this race is
not going to be one in the courthouse in Manhattan,
regardless of the outcome of the case. It's going to
be one by knocking on doors in Kenosha. But again,
the stupidity that I've been listening to over the past
several months about how this race is over and Democrats
are freaking out and Trumpers are so overconfident.
Speaker 2 (06:46):
I don't think anyone has said that this is over,
to be clear, But.
Speaker 4 (06:51):
Is this just.
Speaker 2 (06:52):
Denihilism or is is Joe cool like the other side
of the pillow. He understands that they're going to try
to pull some shenanigans. It does matter that Biden's a clown.
Speaker 1 (07:04):
So I just keep looking at this and saying, their
clear plan has been foiled in many ways associated with
keeping Trump in a courtroom for the entire season. They
were right. I believe that Republicans rallied around Trump and
made him the nominee. They've been totally wrong about how
(07:26):
it would impact the national election. And for people out
there who say, oh, the polls are wrong, I understand
your argument. I disagree with it because Biden is spending
tens of millions of dollars and the polls really aren't
moving very much. Whatever you think about the polls, they
(07:47):
aren't adjusting substantially in any direction based on much of
what's occurring, which, to me buck is actually very logical
because we've never had a double incumbent race before. And
so the point I'm making here is what could make
someone change their opinion of Biden or Trump at this point.
(08:11):
Now I understand the argument of what's the turnout going
to be, which voters are going to show up?
Speaker 2 (08:18):
All of that always fensitters, right, They're always undecided. That's
what the whole election turns into is how do we
get the undecided? How do we get the fences.
Speaker 1 (08:25):
I don't even think there are actually any undecideds at
this point. I just we have we have everybody has
made and come up with an opinion of Donald Trump,
everybody I believe has made and come up with an
opinion of Joe Biden. And so I think the number
of movable people is tiny, and I think what we're
(08:48):
going to see is what we have already seen for
much of the last six months, which is opinions are
pretty fixed, and Biden's going to have to run the
table in Wisconsin, Michigan, and Pennsylvania to be president of
the United States. That's it. That's his only path. He's
(09:09):
not gonna flip North Carolina. I think he's very likely
to lose Georgia, in Arizona and maybe Nevada. And if
you look at the map and you just I think
we're gonna be saying this for the next five months.
If you look at the math, this is a Wisconsin, Pennsylvania,
Michigan race and Biden has to win all three and
(09:30):
Trump just has to win one of them. Now, there
are other aspects out there. We talked about yesterday. Virginia
there's a tie pole there, Minnesota, New Hampshire. There are
other states that could loom large here. But if they
loom large, Trump is winning. I don't see a pathway
where Biden's calculus allows him to win Without Wisconsin, Pennsylvania,
(09:57):
and Michigan. Trump has the chance to blow up the right.
I mean, he could win Virginia. That election result could
come down at nine o'clock Eastern and everybody's gonna say,
you know what, this race is over. Biden doesn't have
that chess piece on the board right now, and I
don't see it moving. And here's what I'll say. He
just hit an all time low for approval ratings. I
(10:20):
actually think the more time people consider the incumbent, the
less likely they are to circle back around to him.
They're more likely, I think, to decide, you know what,
these expenses are crazy. I'm frustrated. I'm unhappy. Inflation is
out of control, things cost what they shouldn't. I'm disappointed.
(10:44):
I'm gonna throw the bum in office out of power.
I think that's where we're headed right now, five months out.
Unless and we've been talking about this, is there? I
just what is new about Trump? What could you hear
about Trump? And you'd be like, you know what, this
totally changes my opinion of Trump.
Speaker 2 (11:03):
Well, you know there's one thing that used to used
to hear about a lot. And I remember this from
the good old Trump days twenty sixteen to twenty twenty.
People would say, particularly with the Twitter stuff at the time,
oh you know, he's it's too much. Or you'd have
people who were nominally Republicans, like Mitt Romney style Republicans
who would say things about how they like the policies,
(11:25):
but they don't approve of his style.
Speaker 1 (11:27):
Stuff like that.
Speaker 2 (11:28):
Well, right now the guy's being dragged into court all
over the place and isn't on Twitter, and so he's
not able to I think he's not able to get
to that level of maybe overexposure where some people start
to forget about the good policies and focus in on
you know, I don't like his course language or whatever.
We're slicing the onion thin here, to be clear, but
(11:51):
that's the best I can do for you on you know,
where people on the right at least may start to tire.
I guess a little bit of Trump in some way,
but I don't see that happening this time. That's the thing.
It's the number. I mean, that's not reflected in the numbers.
It would just be Could that happen in the future.
I don't know. But I actually am fascinated by this.
(12:11):
Do we have an undecided voter listening right now? I
would really want to hear this, Like, do we have
somebody who has voted Republican and has voted demonstrating to
us right now, listening to us right now? So you
voted for you know, you voted for Trump once, you
voted for Biden once and now you really don't know.
(12:33):
I'd be fascinated, and we will. I'm not looking to,
you know, antagonize anybody. We love that you listen and
we appreciate it. But I would just be fascinated to
hear what that thought process is. Because Clay, you know,
you keep saying no one's gonna change their mind. Dude,
a lot of people still watch like America's got talent
and and are just focused on, you know, paying the
(12:56):
electricity bill, and they're not.
Speaker 4 (12:58):
They're not.
Speaker 2 (12:59):
Are people like everyone listening right now who's tuned into
this stuff?
Speaker 1 (13:02):
So I get that, you know, but the data reflects
that most of the time, you know how an undecided
voter is going to end up voting even when they're undecided.
Like you can go in and you can be like, okay,
what is your answer to these six questions? They typically
break one way or the other. You can kind of
have a sense. I think the bigger question right now
(13:23):
than how is this all going to break down? Because
my belief is that basically everybody's made up their minds
is how many people show up? Because that is the
question to me, if you are a low propensity voter
in Philadelphia, are you going to go stand in line
and vote? If you're a low propensity voter in you know, uh,
Northern Michigan, are you going to go stand in line
(13:45):
and vote? Because those can cut different ways, and that
really goes to the strength of the candidate. Turnout, to
me is a more interesting debate than the personal opinions
because turnout can swing an election three or four points.
That's clearly the kind of election we're going to have.
Who's more motivated, what base is going to do a
(14:07):
better job of getting out their voters. Clearly Democrats have
done a better job getting their base out in twenty
and twenty twenty two on average.
Speaker 2 (14:16):
I can't imagine. I can't imagine the person who voted
for Trump in twenty sixteen and in twenty twenty and
wouldn't show up this time. You know, that's an I'm
just trying to get in the mind.
Speaker 1 (14:29):
I think the Biden people are less motivated now because
in twenty twenty you could buy into the idea because
of COVID all the Trump is the World's coming to
an end.
Speaker 2 (14:41):
Yeah, and had some residence. Well, also, you're hearing a
lot less you notice about like threats to democracy right now.
Speaker 1 (14:47):
It doesn't work when you're trying to put your chief
political opponent in prison the rest of his life.
Speaker 2 (14:51):
Yeah, they may have actually taken their most potent political
weapon off the board by trying to make something even
more potent, which is this lawfair campaign. Come back into
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Speaker 5 (16:22):
Twenty four on You podcast from Clay and Buck covering
all things Election episodes Drum Sundays at noon Eastern. Find
it on the free iHeartRadio app or wherever you get
your podcasts.
Speaker 2 (16:34):
Welcome back into Clay and Buck. We have Cash Patel
joining us in this three minutes. He is a close
advisor to President Trump, worked for him at the do
OD Senior Pentagon guy back in the Trump years, and
he's following this very closely. We'll talk to about what
he's hearing from the Trump team is there. It's a
(16:55):
lot of hurry up and wait, as they say in
the military right now, a lot of hurry up and wait.
Where you know, we're gonna talk about some other things.
I think we might just get into some other topics
as we're sitting here, because the amount of you know,
the amount of analysis we can do about well, it
could be or it couldn't be, or it could be
or it couldn't be. He started to run a little
(17:16):
out of steam on that after a while. There are
some other stories they'll clay, like the Boston mayor deciding
that maybe they should just stop enforcing the law. We'll
talk about it.
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Speaker 5 (18:21):
Lee Travis and Buck Sexton on the front lines of truth.
Speaker 1 (18:25):
Welcome back in. I texted. I texted with the Trump
team as they are sitting waiting for a jury verdict,
and just said, hey, does Trump want to call into
the show? And they shot back and said they don't
want to do that while they're waiting, but they wanted
to pass this message along from Trump himself to all
of you rig trial, corrupt judge. But I have the
(18:48):
facts all caps on my side. Testimony conclusively showed that
I clearly stated I don't buy stories all caps. So
that is from Trump himself as they sit waiting in
the court house for this verdict to come back. We
are joined now by a guy who knows the president
(19:10):
pretty well, Cashptel, and has also had to deal with
a lot of this law there on many different levels.
So let's start with the question that everybody is asking.
What do you think this jury is thinking right now? Cash?
How do you think they are going about their deliberations?
Do you agree that the longer this goes on potentially
(19:31):
the better this could be for Trump? What should we
know from your perspective as we sit here waiting to
see what's going to happen.
Speaker 4 (19:39):
Thank it's great to be with you guys, And the
best perspective you just got it was from the President
Trump himself, but for my chair as a former federal
prosecutor and public defender who tried sixty of these cases
to verdict in state and federal court and was with
the President all day last week when the Costello testimony
hit the stand, I saw jurors. I observed the jurors
because I was my They found Bob Costello, with their
(20:02):
mannerisms credible. I also watched the jurors when they were
watching Michael Cohen lie through their teeth, and not a
single one of the jurors would make eye contact with
Michael Cohen, but they were all looking intently at Bob Costello.
To me, from a credibility standpoint, that means the jury
saw what we saw, what the world saw was the truth.
But from that vantage point, when you put them back
(20:24):
in the jury room, it's a different story. They are
looking now to see if there's anyone on there that's
going to hold the line and find Donald Trump not
guilty based on the facts of the law, or whether
they're going to do what we call splitting the baby
because he's caught charge with thirty four counts.
Speaker 6 (20:41):
Are they going to say, let's just go home.
Speaker 4 (20:43):
We'll ask a few questions, will make it look like
we did our jobs, and we'll convict them of one
or two things. So the Biden administration can have the
headline that Donald Trump's a convicted fell and there's really
no way to read it in terms of time back
in the jury room.
Speaker 2 (20:55):
Hey Cash, it's buck good to have you on as always,
and drawing upon your time as a prosecutor in the past,
have you ever seen anything like this. We mentioned it
maybe earlier in the hour, where a prosecutor takes one
alleged act, one alleged and I didn't even like to
say this is criminal, because I don't even think it is.
(21:15):
But put that aside, one alleged criminal act and then
just counts it dozens of times the same thing because
of like xerox machines and emails or something.
Speaker 1 (21:25):
Do you know what I mean? Have you ever seen
this before?
Speaker 4 (21:29):
No? Never, It's not even that I haven't seen one
of these acts before. It to me is astounding that
I keep seeing so many unconstitutional acts in just one trial,
whether it's the jury instructions, which were literally the first
time I've ever heard that a verdict does not have
to be unanimous. The Supreme Court has clearly established that
every element of every crime charge must be unanimously found
(21:51):
beyond a reasonable doubt in order to convict the defendant.
Speaker 5 (21:54):
Then you have the.
Speaker 4 (21:55):
Government Alvin Bragg here pasting together thirty four times over
a felony that they made up out of thin air,
which they have no jurisdiction to do because they do
not have the authority to govern sec regulations and violations,
not to mention that fact, as the FEC and the
DJ said, Donald Trump did not commit those violations. But
what they're hoping for is to throw everything against the
(22:17):
wall prosecution and hope one piece of spaghetti sticks. And
that's what you get when you have this sort of
thirty four x rubber stamp prosecution. You hope to basically
inflame the jurors so much to say, wow, thirty four felonies,
he must have done something wrong, So we got to
find him guilty of at least one thing. That's their hope,
But that's not the law.
Speaker 1 (22:38):
Cash. A couple of questions for you, because you've got
good experience in these matters. We were taking calls from listeners.
One asked, Okay, if there's a hung jury, how fast
could they try Trump again? I'm curious what you've ever
seen in terms of the turnaround on a rapid case
(22:58):
like this second part. Do you agree with me that
this is a almost one hundred percent certain case that's
going to be reversed on appeal And what do you
think the strongest grounds for that reversal would be.
Speaker 4 (23:15):
Yeah, Look, in due course, you could go from a
hungary to a trial relatively quickly, but here in the
details we exposed yet another corrupt activity by this judge.
This judge has Steve Bannon's case. This judge has a
Trump organization's case. This judge, it was supposed to be
given these cases or the cases were supposed to be
distributed anonymously, somehow found all three of them and he
(23:38):
set to try Steve Bennon right after Donald Trump. So
I don't know how that would happen if that's already
the trial posture for the summer, it would seem to
me impossible. But in terms of it being what we
call reversible error, meaning there's an issue of law that
was so blatantly unconstitutional the whole case gets reversed. I
think it's littered with reversible error from the jury instruction
that we just talked about, to the the actual indictment
(24:01):
itself about bootstrapping a federal issue to a misdemeanor at
the state level, just to raise it to a felony,
and then whether or not this jurisdictional office at the
DAS has the ability to prosecute this case or just
three of them. But as we talked about, those issues
will take two to three years on appeal to litigate.
All these guys care about is a misinformation headline that
(24:23):
Donald Trump is a convicted fellon for the next four
months to run that tape out in the court of
public opinion.
Speaker 2 (24:29):
Speaking of Cash Patel, who was a member of the
Trump DoD he was acting chief of staff at the
Pentagon when Trump was in office, and Cash and also
former federal prosecutor Cash, if the situation here turns into
a guilty verdict, what do you think they're going to do?
Speaker 4 (24:51):
I mean, if the situation is turned into a guilty
verdict and this judge does not allow Donald Trump to
what we call stay out of custody pending appeal, then
I think that any jail time that is put upon
Donald Trump is going to cause the American public to
rightly so have a reaction that sends Donald Trump to
(25:11):
the White House basically overnight. I know the election's far away,
but I think that's what's going to be the reaction.
At least that's what I've observed when I've been in
around the courtroom and around the country when I talk
to people about what if Donald Trump's imprisoned in this matter,
and Americans not only don't have the stomach for that.
Americans don't want to see the weaponized system of justice
decide for them who they get to vote for on
(25:34):
election day come November fifth. So this judge would be
wise to allow Donald Trump to do everything he's been
doing pending the course of appeal. But again, we've seen
what this judge has done, one unconstitutional act at a time.
So you have no idea what he's going to do
because he's in it for the prosecution, he's in it
for the Democrats, and he's in it for his daughter
to make some more money while he turns out this
(25:55):
disinformation campaign from his courtroom.
Speaker 1 (25:57):
Gosh, how nervous do you think think the prosecution is
right now? As we're now coming up on eight or
nine hours of deliberation, do you think they expected to
get a guilty verdict faster than this? Do you think
as this time continues to grow, questions get asked that
they get more nervous about the idea of this being
(26:19):
a hung jury. How would you take us into their
mind so far as you.
Speaker 4 (26:22):
Could, Yeah, from prosecutorial standpoint in this case, with a
judge who is basically on your team, I would have
expected a prosecution within the hour based upon the exclusion
of all evidence of innocence. So remember when the judge
excluded evidence that was outside the presence of the jury.
You and I have talked and read about it. But
the jury doesn't even know about half of Bob Prostello's
(26:44):
testimony or the legal expert that President Donald Trump wanted
to bring in about campaign finance law that would have
exonerated Donald Trump. They have had a limited scope of information.
So even with that limited scope of information, they're sitting
back there saying, wait a second, We're in day two,
and the prosecutor's got to be freaking out a little
bit because they've already returned with questions that directly speak
to the elements of the crimes charged and questions about
(27:07):
the burden of proof. To me, that show that they
are considering across the board whether or not the prosecutors
have met their burden of proof. So if I were
the prosecutors in this case, I'd be a little scared.
And the longer goes on, I think it enores the
benefit of President Trump.
Speaker 2 (27:23):
Cash again a timeline question. Having been in the role
of federal prosecutor yourself, do you think that Jack Smith,
I'm sorry switching gears here. I know we're all waiting
for the New York City verdict, but do you think
the Jack Smith is going to try to at least
begin the January sixth DC based trial before the election
(27:45):
or is it just functionally impossible for him to do so.
Speaker 4 (27:50):
Well, right now, what we call it is he and
Judge Tucken are seized of jurisdictions. The presidential immunity presidential
privileged question is before the United States Supreme Court, so
they can't even issue a scheduling order or request a
judge issue a scheduling order because they do not have
the authority under the law with the case of the
Supreme Court to do anything at the trial level. Should
(28:11):
the court return a verdict or see the a decision
this summer, which I think they will in June or July,
remember that whole clock restarts and they have to take
the case based up the direction of the Supreme Court's decisions,
and then the defense is going to rightfully so file
motions to dismiss the case outright or a number of
charges based on the Supreme Court decision. So I just
(28:33):
don't see it getting there. And this is why I
think everyone's so focused on Alvin Braggs. It was the
last case everybody anyone cared about because they thought Georgia
would come in first, They thought Washington, DC would come
in first, they thought Florida would come in first. But
now they see that through the exposition of all the
unconstitutional acts in those cases collectively, their last straw is
New York. And I think that's what they're putting all
(28:54):
their eggs in one basket for What.
Speaker 1 (28:56):
Else do you think we should know about this case
that we haven't asked you? What should be a top
of mind? And we're talking about the New York City
case in particular here as this jury deliberation continues, what
do you want our audience to know?
Speaker 4 (29:12):
You, As a former officer of the court who's been
on both sides of this thing, I want the audience
to think of the following. Do you want constitutional due
process to be selectively applied to you and those you
love in your community and your family based on your
political preferences? Do you want a ruling elite to come
down upon you and your community and say you disagree
(29:34):
with how we want to conduct our government, so we
are going to prosecute you based on made up crimes.
I think for me, this is the existential judicial question
of our time. Anyone who wants to see Donald Trump
convicted wants to light our constitution on fire, and we
cannot have that just because you disagree with his political orientation.
To me, this is the most important case of our lifetime,
(29:56):
and America and the world are watching. We are no
longer a standard of beacon of justice if we get
this case wrong.
Speaker 1 (30:04):
High stakes. Indeed, he's kash Ptel. We appreciate the time.
I'm sure we'll be talking to you again soon.
Speaker 4 (30:10):
Thanks, jan have a great day.
Speaker 1 (30:11):
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(31:41):
For those who serve.
Speaker 5 (31:43):
Need a break from follozis a little comedy to counter
the craziness, so do we The Sunday.
Speaker 1 (31:50):
Hang, a weekend podcast to lighten things up a bit.
Speaker 5 (31:53):
Find it in the Clay and Buck podcast feed, on
the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts.
Speaker 2 (32:00):
Them back into Clay and Buck. We are going to
continue Verdict watch Dun Dun dund This is an ominous
sound effect that I made in case you didn't know.
We're going to continue to look for well, hopefully it's
not ominous at all in the sense that or it
won't be that we'll get at least a hung jury here.
But we'll see, we'll see, and we're going to talk
(32:21):
also about the situation that Biden faces, not just the
overall low approval numbers he's got, but also the lack
of support that is showing up in the data for
Biden among young black male voters, which is a demographic
that Biden needs to do very, very well with or
(32:43):
else it's all over for him in the election. We'll
get to that. But I asked this question aloud, and
we have one. Is there somebody out there who is
an independent voter who voted for Trump, then voted for
Biden and is now on the fence in North Carolina?
You claim to be one of the few. Good to
(33:03):
have you on.
Speaker 7 (33:04):
I am that's honor to talk to you, guys. I'll
listen to you all the time when I'm I traveling.
Speaker 2 (33:10):
Thank you.
Speaker 7 (33:11):
Yeah, I kind of classify myself this election cycle, say
I'm a rape.
Speaker 6 (33:15):
What I consider to be a Reagan Conservative.
Speaker 7 (33:20):
I like that's the era of the time period that
I grew up, and I am in this election kind
of what I guess you consider a dangerous voter.
Speaker 6 (33:30):
Because I don't know who to vote for them.
Speaker 7 (33:34):
I voted in the twenty sixteen election for mister Trump
for the fact that we had eight years of the
Clinton and I was not a big fan of their policies.
Speaker 2 (33:45):
Can I ask you, and I want to ask these
questions and it's just as straightforward to fascist possible, because
I don't want to try to lead you one way
or the other, and I just want to hear what
you have to say. Did you think that Trump did
a good job in his four years because you voted
for Biden? So what happened?
Speaker 6 (34:04):
I do think that some of the policies that he
had were good for the country.
Speaker 7 (34:09):
When gas costs more to put in your car, when
a gap a dozen eggs cost more to buy than
a gallon of gas, we got a problem.
Speaker 6 (34:18):
Towards the end of mister Trump's term in office.
Speaker 7 (34:21):
I was paying a dollar sixty five at gallon for gas.
Speaker 6 (34:24):
Now it's twice that, and you know we shouldn't be
paying that.
Speaker 7 (34:29):
There's no, wady, Okay, the big problem that I have
and why did you switch?
Speaker 4 (34:35):
Then?
Speaker 1 (34:35):
Why did? I'm sorry to cut you off, and I'm
just kind of fascinated. So you voted for Trump in sixteen,
you voted for Biden in twenty twenty. What was the
reason why you switched?
Speaker 7 (34:47):
The big reason is I guess it was the way
I was raised.
Speaker 6 (34:51):
Just because you can.
Speaker 7 (34:52):
Think something does not necessarily mean it needs to come
out of your mouth.
Speaker 2 (34:57):
Jim Trump decorum. This is what I was saying.
Speaker 1 (34:59):
You were bothered by his temperament. Okay, So now what
are you What's going to make your decision in twenty
four How do you? How do you what what matters
to you the most? You mentioned gas prices? What's what
will make you pull the trigger one way or the other?
Speaker 6 (35:16):
Who he picks for a vice president? Now I'm carefully
the reason.
Speaker 1 (35:21):
Who would you want him to pick? Who would be
a pick? And you would say, I'm one hundred percent
voting for Trump one.
Speaker 6 (35:28):
Or two people. If he picks Roan DeSantis, Okay, if
he pulls the plug and picks Nikki Haley, it's a
done deal. I'll vote for him, no problem, no, because
all right, yeah, what I'm looking at with both of
these two candidates for me is age because he says
(35:51):
that neither one of them they may do four years,
which means you have to have.
Speaker 1 (35:55):
A confidence VP and play Jim Jim.
Speaker 2 (35:58):
We're about to come into a break. I just want
they thank you for calling in, thank you for taking
our questions and the spirit in which they were offered.
We're gonna analyze this a little bit more. That was
very interesting though, But Clay, this is what I was
saying about the people that without him on Twitter and
without him constantly present, some people were bothered by Trump's
style and his tone. Who are Republican voters. We'll come
(36:20):
back and talk about them,
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