February 10, 2025 • 36 mins
In this episode, Meghan McCain discusses her insights on Tulsi Gabbard's political journey, the media's portrayal of women in politics, and the evolving landscape of American conservatism. This conversation explores the disconnect between the media and public sentiment, the impact of COVID-19 on political views, and the challenges faced by the intelligence community. McCain reflects on her personal experiences and the cultural shifts that are reshaping the Republican identity, emphasizing the importance of understanding the current political climate. It's a Numbers Game with Ryan Girdusky is part of the Clay Travis & Buck Sexton Podcast Network. For more visit natpop.substack.com
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:03):
Welcome back to a numbers game with Ryan Gardoski. So
we are headed towards the middle of Trump's first one
hundred days in office. It's a big part of his
agenda so far has been getting his cabinet confirmed, which
is the very first part of every kind of administration's agenda.
While some of his team, like Marco Rubio, have sailed
through the confirmation he was confirmed ninety nine to zero,
(00:24):
some of Team Trump's toughest challenges lay ahead of him
when it comes to confirmation, and that's the confirmation of
the former Democrats. That's Robert F. Kennedy Junior for the
Secretary of Health and Human Services, Tulsea Gabbert for the
Director of National Intelligence, and Cash Ptel for FBI Director.
I'm not exactly sure if Cash was officially a Democrat,
but he got his start in the Obama administration's Justice
(00:46):
Apartment back in twenty fourteen, so that's why I'm including him.
It looks like that none of these people, despite being
former Democrats, are affiliated with Democratic passive administrations, are going
to receive much of any support from Senate Demors, who
have given their support to other ones of Trump's nominees.
Like Senator Rubio. The only remaining Trump pick who looks
(01:06):
like he's they're going to receive any substantial support from
the Democrats is Labor Secretary Lorie Chavez Demurror. She was
a former congressman from Oregon who actually had a number
of Republicans openly opposing her because she's so pro union.
But back to Patel, Gabbard and RFK, it looks like
all three Mey get through, but just by the Pete
hegsgeth margin of fifty to fifty with Pete received fifty
(01:28):
Republican votes and then Vice President Jadvance cast the tie
breaking vote in his favor. They all have a bit
of controversy in their background. After twenty twenty. Pateel got
very close to conspiracy theorists with the twenty twenty election,
and then after that pretty close with mqanon. People said
some very kind of out there things. Then there's RFK,
who has got more stories than Mother Goose. He had
(01:49):
some kind of a lot of questionings with vaccines that
he's backed away from. He had the conversation where he
brought a dead bear to Central Park. He had a
brain worm, He had a very very ugly divorced from
his first wife that unfortunately ended with her taking her
own life. And there's a lot of pushback from the
more religious wing of the GOP because of his positions
on abortion, which are very very pro choice. And then lastly,
(02:11):
the person I want to focus on today is Tulsi Gabbard.
A lot of the hawkish wing of the GOP has
opposed her primarily because of our positions on Edward Snowden,
which Edward Snowden was an American who worked for the
I guess the administrative state or the deep state, who
found during that Obama's presidency, the American government was spy
on every American and he leaked that information to a
(02:32):
news outlet and had to then flee to Russia. And
Tulsi and many people have wanted him assassinated. Many politicians
have wanted him assassinated. And Tulsi does not have that
same position against Noden that a lot of politicians do.
And then she had a meeting with former Syrian dictator
Bashir Alossade many years ago, who is no longer in power.
These two stories are not relevant towards today. Alasade is
(02:55):
obviously no longer in power in Syria and Edward Snodan
is something that happened over a decade ago. But the
mar of error for Republicans is very thin. With three
Republicans basically hinting they're going to oppose all of Trump's nominees,
that being McConnell, Murkowski, and Curtis McConnell from Kentucky, Mkowski
from Alaska, and Curtis from Utah. It's a fifty fifty
majority for these three people. It looks like they're all
(03:17):
going to get in, but by the skin of their teeth,
with absolutely no margin of error. And is Tulsi in
particular that is important and is interesting because what she
represents is a departure from Bush era Republicanism, Bush era
neo conservatism, sort of the way that Jadvans did and
he received a lot of pushback when he was running
for Senate in twenty twenty two. But Tulsi is made
(03:38):
it so central to her identity. She is a veteran.
She has served in the military in war zones as
a medic. She has been in Iraq, I think in Afghanistan,
but I think one of definitely one of the other.
And she has seen the toll of forever wars in
a way that many members of Congress who have voted
for these wars have never seen it. So her nomination,
(04:00):
her being confirmed is a departure from a Republican party
that many people have been looking to get passed for
quite a long time. My guest this week has been
fighting for Tulcie's nomination for weeks now, appearing everywhere in
the media to tell centrals Republicans why they should support her.
So we'll be back with Megan McCain after these messages.
(04:22):
My guest this week is the host of the fantastic
podcast Citizen McCain, who is actually my number one podcast
of last year that I listened to and the and
she has a great substack Megan McCain dot substack dot com.
Megan McCain, Megan, you've had a very Bryan Yeah, we're
very good friends. I know, I don't want to introduce that,
but yeah, we're good friends anyway. All right, So, Megan,
(04:46):
we you've had like a super busy few weeks. You've
had a media like renaissance over Tulsi Cabard's Tulci Gabbard's confirmation,
and it looks like she's finally over the hump after
a lot of bump the roads. What has it been
like on the inside as far as the anticipation whether
or not she could be confirmed?
Speaker 2 (05:08):
So I never lost I always thought she was gonna
be confirmed, which you can attest to, like I was
always like, like I felt like I was. People were
like gaslighting me that it wasn't gonna happen, and a
lot of people were like, oh, you got to sacrifice someone,
and it's obviously going to be the woman because like
we lost women, and like I said, all and I
feel like, because you know, like for people that don't
(05:29):
know background, we're good friends because I'm around her so much,
and I'm around her in public spaces where I have
been able to see how people react to her. I
don't think people were really aware of just her huge
following and her grassroots support among like a very interesting
demographic of American voters. So I never like thought it
(05:49):
wouldn't happen. But I did like have to pull my
fangs out a little bit and really use some of
my like experience growing up in round political circles to
like throw threats out, which I normally don't do. But
I felt like it was warranted in that situation, and
I just felt like there's a lot of senators that
need reminding that this coalition is a broad one and
(06:13):
it goes way beyond like Bush era politics that I
think are like long gone. And there's a long winded answer.
But I wasn't I wasn't worried about it, but like
I went on a podcast with Sean Spicer and Mark
Halpern and Dan Turntine the day after the hearing, and
Sean was like, he straight up said she's disqualified, and
we had a debate about it. He did not like
(06:34):
her answer on Snowden and he said it was completely disqualifying,
and we had a debate about it. We didn't like
yell or anything, but we had a debate about it,
and you know, I just it's been a really interesting
experience just from the politics of it. But I'm she's
you know, getting confirmed. I don't know when this airs,
but it's getting's getting confirmed this week.
Speaker 1 (06:55):
It will be on Tuesday. So yeah, I think that
the as few senators who were opposing her, I mean
their problem. Rakowski may probably opposed her, and maybe McConnell
and Curtis, but the number needed have basically all fallen
by the wayside, which were Senator Young from Indiana sent
her Langford from Oklahoma. They've come out and support of her.
Senator Collins was an fairly early supporter, I mean for
(07:19):
her as far as the moderate senators go, and Collins
is in a much tougher reelection bid than anybody else
if you would consider her being controversial. The internal argument,
First of all, Tulsi's evolution. Do you think knowing her,
that she's had one an internal evolution since you first
(07:39):
met her when it comes to politics, having now being
a Republican for being a Democrat.
Speaker 2 (07:44):
Yeah, you know, when I first met her, she was
obviously a Democrat. She was running for president. It was
like right before she was running for a president against
you know, in the Democrat coalition, and she kind of,
I think, experienced very similar things that I did, which
you know, like it's obviously mine dissimilar because I was
working in media, but in politics, like if you're just
(08:06):
screamed at because you like want basic things, you like
are patriotic and you love America and like you're religious
and you love God, and you like love our military,
and you're like abused publicly of it. It will change
your perspective on the world. And I think, you know, honestly,
Democrats have just gotten so progressive and so radical that
she's not She's not like that at all. So I
(08:27):
think her evolution was very natural and I of got
to see it in real time.
Speaker 1 (08:31):
Yeah. I think it's also funny when you have a
Democrat friend who as an adult starts becoming a Republican,
Like they start dropping these little like nuttings. They're like, hmm,
that's an interesting comment you made.
Speaker 2 (08:42):
It.
Speaker 1 (08:43):
Let me internalize that for a second. I think so.
Speaker 2 (08:45):
Many friends like this, by the way, especially in the
past post COVID time, and people that I like love
dearly who are like the most red pilled, like like
I like not to like give a shout out. My
friend Nate, who lives in Virginia Beach I love to
live in New York together has made this like complete.
It is now like even more conservative than I am,
(09:06):
and I definitely anecdotally in my life. Yet Democrats to
understand the grave disaster of like generational disaster COVID did
to an entire group of people.
Speaker 1 (09:17):
In this tense. I have a friend who is a
former Democrat who like, how did like a Thomas Soul
book with them? I go, how did you hear about
Thomas Soule? I know how I know about him, but
how did you hear about him? Yeah, no, it's super
interesting that happened. I think a turning point for Tulsi,
especially in relation to the media, was when she went
after and destroyed Kamala Harris's bid first bid for the
(09:40):
presidency during the debate. That ended Kamala Harris's entire bit,
and that kind of altered fundamentally altered everyone's in the
media's relation with them. You worked in the media for years,
did you did you start noticing how people how did
people talk about her like regular Democrats? Was that she was,
you know, out to pasture at that point?
Speaker 2 (10:00):
You know, I specifically remember like at the View, you
know that when she originally came on, it was like
a much friendlier place for her, Like people were just
much more you know, I think like like liked her
a lot more. And then I remember she came on,
was I think it was before that or after that.
I don't remember, Like around that time when she had
(10:21):
you know, shipped Vice President Harrison stage, and uh, there
was definitely a shift of like questioning just like if
her loyalty to the party and you know, things like that,
and you know, the one of the things we've always
bonded over is having like really insane stereotypes and perceptions
of us in the media.
Speaker 1 (10:40):
I've met total see person I think twice. She's extremely stoic.
She has the best posture ever met on a single person.
I mean, considering my postures and this, I'm like, you're
always standing up.
Speaker 2 (10:52):
Straight, hary thing she does.
Speaker 1 (10:59):
She's got great I think. I like, I noticed those
things about people, like people have got great teeth, they're
great posture and like things. I'm like, oh, that's really
I got to learn how to stand up straight more often?
Do you what? Does do you think that her misinterpretation
from her career in the military, she I mean, I
guess the word that people need to say about women,
(11:21):
she's icy. Do you think that's about me too? Yeah,
they've said that about you two. Do you think that
that's where it is? It's just that you're not Jenna Bush.
Not that's anything wrong with her, but like you know,
it's not you're not you know, the morning news personality
of like a bubbly woman and that has created being
a woman definitely creates the perception of being icy. I
(11:41):
don't think that her her personality as much of it
than Mike Waltz's. Is it a personality, I think, or
is it a position?
Speaker 2 (11:48):
I think just to be a strong woman, people will
call you icy or call you a bitch. And I
think I actually think that image of her has really
changed a lot. I think people have gotten to know
her a lot more. She's done a lot more personal
interviews like on Joe Rogan and Me and on.
Speaker 1 (12:02):
Your podcast was great, Yeah, thank you.
Speaker 2 (12:05):
And by the way, I feel weird that I'm not
her spokesperson and I'm not like you know, it's like
we're just good friends. And I think people are just
curious about why, because you know, I think on paper,
it probably looks weird. She's vegan. She exercises every day,
Like you know, I am not vegan. I don't. It's
a different, much healthier life while than I do. And
but the core of who we are is extremely is
(12:26):
very similar.
Speaker 1 (12:27):
Yeah, And I think that people just assume you would
always be like pro war or pro or they probably
call you an ne O'Connor whatever, and it's obviously partially
because of the background of you know, how your dad
voted on a lot of things, but also I think
because and I want to ask you about this specifically,
the media is default pro war. Like the Iraq War.
(12:51):
There was no voices in the mainstream media opposing that.
Back twenty years ago, there was. I mean, the only
day that Donald Trump got positive covered on MSNBC in
his entire first term was the day that he struck
Syria after the gas attack. He got wall to while
positive coverage the Afghanistan withdrawal of Biden was a disaster,
but it was panned, the idea was panned even more so.
(13:15):
I think that part, and you could disagree with me, I
think part of Tulsi's pushback is if you are even
anything opposed to either the intelligence community or the war community,
you are problematic in their eyes. I mean, I.
Speaker 2 (13:30):
Also think one of the things that became really from
the experience of physically attending the hearing with her, one
of the things that I became acutely aware of is
I was like, oh my god, a lot of these people,
I would say, probably like seventy five percent of the
senators asking your questions, I was like they clearly don't
know a war weary Iraq and Afghanistan veteran. They are
obviously surrounded by, like, at least on the Republican side,
(13:53):
like the Bush era coalition of people, especially in regards
to foreign policy, is actually still quite strong in DC,
super strong. I don't know people I know that, but
they actually despite the fact that Bush was president when
I was in high school. But it is I think
that they are not aware that, even for me, the
tenor and tone of the country and the country's attitude
(14:15):
towards war has has shifted. And you don't need to,
you know, take my word for it. Look at Trump
and look at data and polling, and I think, you know,
especially just like anecdotally in my life, two of my brothers,
you know, did multiple tours in Iraq and Afghanistan. My
one brother, Jimmy, enlisted when he was sixteen. My parents
had to sign like a form that he could go
(14:37):
in the army that young. You know, I'll never forget
the first day when I say goodbye to him, when
he deployed to Iraq the first time is horrific. And
you know, even for like my brother Jimmy, like he's
very isolationisty and he wouldn't mind me saying it. I
have asked him in the past. Few minds me like
sharing that. And like my brother in law, who has
(14:58):
done many tours in Iraq and Afghanistan, this still serving
like it doesn't feel it feels like very aligned with Tulsi.
And I think the thing that some of these older
generational politicians don't understand is there's a lot of people
in this country, if you served or didn't, that we're
lied to about weapons of mass destruction, that have been
given ample reasons not to trust the government. In a
post COVID time, I stopped trusting. I was a lot
(15:20):
more trusting and like naive about the government and people
running it pre COVID than I am after now. I mean,
I I am like, you know, probably more conspiratorial than
people you know better than anyone, and very defiant about
like I do not trust these people.
Speaker 1 (15:36):
Well. I think Tulsi's opinions also line up with another veteran,
which is JD. Vance. I think that you have you know,
I think I think for millennials.
Speaker 2 (15:47):
One thing like she's also like a big supporter of
Israel and like at post October seventh, like went to
the Israel March with me and like understands that there
are situations where like you should be supporting different countries
and different situations like right, I think there's this like
image of her like a bond villain, like it's just
for no circumstances ever, and I think people just are
aren't really nuanced enough to to you know, read or
(16:10):
listen to all her thoughts and perspective.
Speaker 1 (16:12):
Right, and when I don't, I don't want to paint
her a picture.
Speaker 2 (16:14):
And as a complete to you.
Speaker 1 (16:16):
No, I know that, I just I don't want to. Yeah,
that's important enough to paint her a picture as an isolationists.
I mean, but there are some senators where if you
give them five minutes to tell them why we should
invade Mongolia, they would be one hundred percent for it.
Like there are some people who before literally any.
Speaker 2 (16:29):
Single I think lind Graham would probably invade Canada given
the right reason.
Speaker 1 (16:33):
Yeah, I mean no, it's it's a where they would yeah,
I mean where they would be like, yeah, military ships
in Greenland, let's go for it. And there's no there's
no war. You know that you would have spent more
time convincing them against a war than convinced them for
a war. And I think that if you have the
experience of being in a war zone, especially, I think
(16:56):
didn't still see that she was a medic, right, she
was a medican the war zone. So she probably some
people die and that probably really shapes you your opinion
on how the people the what's what's the old quote
old men who vote for wars that young men go
to or something like that. I think that probably definitely
definitely forms your opinion when it comes to the position
of national intelligence. Why, I mean, why do you think
(17:21):
the intelligent community fears her? And why do you think
that she's be perfect for the job, because I.
Speaker 2 (17:26):
Think they know that she's going to root out corruption
the way that like, you know, Doge is doing. Even
though you can like have your opinions on like Elon's role,
which is totally fine, But I think the one thing
that President Trump has made clear and his you know,
coalition in his cabinet has made clear to me is
like this is a time of extreme change. Americans want
extreme change. I felt like I really would not have
(17:48):
survived another four year or the country wouldn't have survived
another four years with Kamala's leadership, because we're just like
drowning in so many different ways. And I think the
intelligence community is aware that she's in some ways an
outsider another way is not just given her history and
background in the military and in Congress. I also just,
I mean candidly, I think there's an element of sexism
in this, which is not something I throw around easily
(18:09):
at all. The fact that you know, these Congress people
were calling her Tulsi instead of lieutenant colonel or congresswoman
I found offensive if you're just not going to call
like cash Patel cash in a.
Speaker 1 (18:20):
Hearing, which is the name of his coin. Coin I
think is the coin. I'm not joking yet.
Speaker 2 (18:27):
And I think she would be really good at the
job because a like I, you know, I just know
from being around her so much, she takes like the
national security of this country to heart and to bed
with her at night. Like she's, you know, deeply fearful
of our enemies. She knows who they are. She she
is very very patriotic and committed, and she's going to
work her ass off, and I legitimately believe that she
(18:50):
will make this country safer. I was telling her in person.
I don't think she mind me sharing this with you. Like,
I love going to New Orleans. It's one of my
favorite cities. I'm like pretty scared to go to Bourbon
Street now since the terror attack and Jen, Yeah, a
lot of things that aren't that I'm you know, I'm not.
I don't live in a place of fear, but like,
I'm more uncomfortable than I used to be, even every
time I go to a big concert, you know, even
sometimes a movie theater. Like yeah, So I just think
(19:13):
she's she's committed in a way that I just don't
think other people would be to rooting out corruption and
getting to the bottom of up.
Speaker 1 (19:20):
Yeah. I mean, I I know from my personal experience.
I do not go see big movies on the opening weekends.
I haven't since the Joker shooting. I don't. I don't
really love outdoor concerts since the Vegas shooting. And I
mean I'm in I'm in New Orleans right now, so
I'm not really New Orleans. But but but uh, the uh,
but the thing is, like I just don't understand why
(19:41):
every time we have a terrorist attack or a lone
wolf attack, we hear afterwards, oh this person was on
our Intelligence Communities watch list, Well, how did they get
a gun or a bomb? Like, how did no one
that would follow up? Why we're like that is the
one thing I never understand. You know a few of
my friends of mind, like Ryan, the intelligent communities basically
(20:02):
people read the newspaper and tell you what was in
the news. Like they're not these are not like insanely active.
You know, a network of FBI agents taking on the
Soviet Union anymore? One person on Twitter, one person on Twitter,
So we have to confirm Toulci and then she has
to make sure spies are hot again.
Speaker 2 (20:22):
I'm part to disappoint that. I don't think that's a priority.
Speaker 1 (20:26):
Which was hysterically funny when it comes to like the
media apparatus, because you worked for Fox, ABC and I
think one other.
Speaker 2 (20:34):
One rights NBC. Yeah, iHeartRadio got a long behind me
working in spaces you.
Speaker 1 (20:42):
Said, you said oftentimes that, like you said, especiallybout ABC,
like there's no one there who likes Republicans. Yeah, if
you're I.
Speaker 2 (20:53):
Encountered in the almost you know, four and a half
years I was there.
Speaker 1 (20:56):
Yeah, I mean since Trump won, the left seems very defeated.
I mean they just I've never seen the left kind
of like this, where they don't really have a coherent message.
You have like Maxine Waters or Chuck Schumer like raising
their canes in the air as they're like pro image
is just they don't like what Chuck Sheamer said. The
American public has never been more aroused than it is
(21:17):
right now. I mean, they don't have a coherent leader,
a message, or even like a chant that they get
sit there and rally around. It seems to be coming
in the media as well as far as the reaction
towards Trump, where they it almost looks like a surrender.
Do you think that the media getting it very, very
wrong and getting the appetite of the public so wrong
(21:37):
in twenty twenty four changes anything.
Speaker 2 (21:41):
Look the ratings for CNN. I mean, I don't remember
the exact show, but it's like reruns of Jeopardy at
three in the morning get better than they're making up
what show it is. But it's like, you know, when
as many people are watching my Instagram stories as your
morning show, Like, I think there's an issue. I don't
(22:02):
trust any of these networks. I do still watch Fox,
and my husband works for them, but obviously I'm.
Speaker 1 (22:06):
Their ratings are through the rooms, so you know, the
way you want.
Speaker 2 (22:10):
And I don't include them in this analysis, but I
think that, you know, just from my personal experience, it's
not just that they don't care about understanding how you know,
fifty five percent of the American public lives, so that
they have a disdain for it. And I think when
you see like Margaret Brennan's attitude and behavior and body
language when she's interviewing JD. Vance and then like screaming
(22:32):
about how Republicans are going to fix the price of bacon,
like you know, you probably live in a multimillion dollar
place someplace in you know, the belt Way, and you know,
I would love to know how many like normal Americans
she's speaking to, because it didn't come off like a lot.
And I think, look, I just don't you know, maybe
this makes me like a masochist or gross person or
(22:52):
something or not a mascist a statist. I really love
this moment, Like I love that everybody that's been so
disgusting to conservatives is like around and having a hard
time and you know, not to like give you TMI,
but like I've had quite a few people reach out
to me wanting to do interviews with lots of different
friends of mine, not just TOLSI, and I'm not helping them. Yeah, thing,
(23:12):
but crap all over me and people like me. For years,
I've basically been called an extremist and a radical, particularly the.
Speaker 1 (23:20):
Past, and those are the nice words exactly.
Speaker 2 (23:24):
You know, you guys are drowning in this. In this
you can you can figure out how to get your
way out of it. Now, I'm not going to help you.
Speaker 1 (23:30):
You're listening to It's a numbers game with Ryan Grodowski.
We'll be right back after this message. What is amazing
to me is that it wasn't like they they bought
in on progressive ideas, on things that no one believes in,
going into like the like transgenderism argument for like miners,
like every leftist argument they believed like wholesale. There was
(23:54):
nothing that they pushed back on for years. I mean,
I mean New York Times only recently started being like, hey,
a bunch of studies that transgenderism in children is not
really not but transgender surgery in children is not really wonderful,
and these drugs are not great for miners or twelve
years old. That took like six seven years to come
(24:14):
out like they did not have a single voice in
the woods to say hey, like there was no diversity
of opinion whatsoever. And I know, like the La Times
is hiring somebody right now, but I haven't seen I
mean any kind of come to Jesus moment on any
of these networks as far as like this big reshuffle.
I mean, they're having these openings now, these people are leaving,
but I can't imagine an open conservative taking any of
(24:37):
these jobs.
Speaker 2 (24:38):
Well, that's part of the problem is it's not that
they just are maybe not offering, Like I mean, I've
had many offers since I left The View and I
will never ever work in cable news. I mean I
did not have you know, I'm not including Fox, but
I'm not working at Box and we're planning on it.
But I would never work in There's nothing, there's no
(24:59):
amount of money, there's no amounta because it doesn't matter
if you're the token person. It matters that like the
producers and the network and the host and everybody just
wants to railroad you and you're this person that's just
going to sit there and get screamed at. I mean,
I think that man that is on CNN does a
great job. I'm sorry I forgot his name because I
don't watch CNN, but there's like a token got Jennings
sut Jennings. Yes, the clips him. He does like a
(25:21):
very great job. But like, I don't know if I
can swear on This's like, who the fuck wants to
do that?
Speaker 1 (25:25):
Every day I was on, I was a Jim Banks
is inauguration and I saw Scott there and I looked
at Jim afterwards, and I Senator Jim banksman aiain and
I said, wow, I thought I was on the most
famous person who was on CNN on this in this
room right now. But that did not happen. His producer
producer I'm seen and actually emailed me yesterday. I said,
would you come on our network? And I'm like, yeah,
I was like, I think I'm banned for life from
(25:48):
your network. I don't think I can come on your network,
but I.
Speaker 2 (25:51):
Think gradge of honor.
Speaker 1 (25:53):
I was like, you probably should reach out to your
higher ups to see if I'm allowed to come on,
And then they never replied to me.
Speaker 2 (26:00):
So I don't know it's worth whenever they And again
I'm not trying to have like a struggle session about
how much we hate CNN, but like they've done this
to themselves, Like they've asked me to come on quite
a bit in the last year, and I always say
no because it's just really not worth my time for
a lot of different reasons. And I'm shocked did they
keep asking, like, yeah, I'm not interested in going on
(26:21):
with like you know, I just and I feel bad
because they have friends that work at SEEING and know
we're really nice people. But I think how many.
Speaker 1 (26:28):
Times can you be called a racist? Is like the
question like how like that is the honest to god
question when you were ever? When ever I did CNN.
The way it works in cable news is you get
a email from the producers a few hours before the
show with all the topics that you're going to be
covering on it. Like when I Owe did Appy Phillips, it
was an hour worth of topics, and then about forty
five minutes before you go on set, they change every
(26:49):
topic and all the research you've done is completely yeah,
And then every question is like the first question, so
Republicans are racists? Second question, follow up, follow up thing,
why are Republicans so racist? And you have to sit
there and defend and make an argument the entire time,
and there are some really good lesson Van Jones was
always a pleasure to work with a lot of other people.
That woman Allison is having a nervous breakdown on CNN
(27:11):
that she was never paid enough, but she has two
bachelor's degrees. She was never a nice person to be
your own, So, I mean, I guess it's the person.
But what is this moment like for you being somebody
who was critical of Trump for so long and for
personal reasons and I think for philosophical positions, there's a
lot to like about this moment right now with the
(27:34):
Trump administration is there, and you're not like a maga
Republican though that's your new brand that they're titling you with.
Speaker 2 (27:41):
I don't think maga people are think that about me,
though I think.
Speaker 1 (27:43):
Maybe they're warmed up to you.
Speaker 2 (27:45):
A lot left doing people probably think that, but I
don't think maga people think that.
Speaker 1 (27:49):
Yeah, but what is this moment like for you as
somebody who was critical of him but kind of likes
what he does?
Speaker 2 (27:55):
So obviously there's personal right of course over ten years
old that you know. What's so funny is even like
the most ardent Trump supporters or like if somebody said
that I'm about my family, I feel the same way
you did, like you should tend to give me a pass.
And also, I know polling wise, Trump's criticism of my
dad and the con family is one of the few
things that ever made his support drop with his face
(28:16):
whatever that's worth. Like, I don't like it, but it's
very old and I you know, you know me, like
I'm a pretty religious person. I'm a very spiritual person,
and my relationship with God is very important to me,
and forgiveness is a big part of my life. And
I've forgiven Trump for me, and I'm forgiven for him.
I've forgiven him a long time ago because for me,
(28:36):
I just want to be a happy person, to live
a happy life. And it's just like for me, I
have let this go a long time ago. But I,
like everybody else, I've experienced, you know, like all the
stuff everybody else did, I did too during COVID post COVID,
the culture war stuff, the political stuff like Biden was
just drowning this country on many different levels. And I
(28:57):
think just like holistically having this like decred but old
man whose brain was mashed potatoes. Leading the country was
a very scary experience. It's true. I've said that numerous times.
I stand by that his brains mass potatoes, and I.
Speaker 1 (29:07):
Don't, right, I love how by the way, can you
just say for one second you like the Bidens were
never you are like god parents, Like there was this
image that they were their best friend.
Speaker 2 (29:18):
They the Bidens were friends with my parents when they
were younger, when they were like you know, when they
first met in like got the late seventies, and then
obviously when my dad was very sick. I President Biden's
son Bo died of the same brain cancer my dad did,
and he was very kind to us during that process.
That would never say different. He was lovely. I think
he was a very different person than than he is now,
(29:40):
for whatever that's worth. And then that my personal backstory
is they asked me to endorse him during the convention
when he was nominated, and I said no because I'm
a Republican, and you know, like it just I didn't.
I honestly like his choice of calm life. I was
so petrified, like like Treby is someone that you could
never do anything like this, and just like I'm not
(30:01):
a Democrat and when I said no, they never spoke
to me again.
Speaker 1 (30:05):
Yeah, well, I just people need to know that because
people have this interpretation that you guys were like vacationing
every summer together.
Speaker 2 (30:13):
I don't think I've ever even actually been to Delaware.
I think you're on an amtrak.
Speaker 1 (30:20):
That's funny. So yeah, but I think that for a
lot of people who are who didn't like full out
leave the party and join the Lincoln Project in the
last eight years, they're like, they're like Trump's doing a
good job, like they can open to them, and they
said Trump is doing a good job. I was talking
to somebody I did a speech yesterday in California, and
they were asking me, like, wow, I feel this person
or that person. I said, I like them enough, like
(30:41):
they're politicians. I'm not like I like them enough until
I don't like them. But I think that a lot
of Republicans are who didn't go along with Trump for
the first eight years, are at the point with him
right now saying I like him enough, like he's good
enough right now.
Speaker 2 (30:56):
I like again, like character wise is just not you
know right what I her, But I mean policy wise,
I'm thrilled, like not to be like gross or whatever,
but like I'm having a great time right now. I
want to be like whatever. But like everything I said
was gonna happen and got screamed at and harassed and abused,
you know, in lots of different spaces has come true.
(31:18):
And everybody I don't like it looks like a moron
because they got everything wrong. And this really is like
a renaissance for conservatism. And you know, to be someone
who has been like a lifelong conservative on TV for
so long talking about it and to have this moment
where we're cool and popular and culturally cool, and you know,
I can now like I have two young girls, as
you know, and I can send them to My eldest
(31:40):
daughter is a really incredible swimmer, Like she's four years
old and she loves it. She's very good. She's already
in advanced classes. It's definitely gonna be her sport. And
like I'm not gonna lie like seeing Lea Thomas really
freaking out about her continuing in this sport and now
like Trump signed all of this, and now I know
that like she can compete against other girls, like is awesome,
Like like I am so happy. I I and honestly,
(32:02):
like Tulsi's inclusion in the cabinet to me is like
even just metaphorically and and our case as well, it's
an olive branch to you know, I think I'm probably
more like in their space politically, I get I don't know.
I mean, I'm more probably more conservative than they are, but.
Speaker 1 (32:17):
Like definitely I think you're more definitely concern of the
RFK is, but I think that you have concerns over
our food supply, like.
Speaker 2 (32:24):
So excited for red like red dye to be banned
and stuff, and I'm really excited, like right now, I
choose to be optimistic and I really genuinely feel excited
about things. And you know, I can table my personal
feelings about Trump, but it's don't even like it because
I don't like hate him. I just like have personal
viewed from a long time ago for what he did
(32:45):
to my dad. But I also think, no, I don't.
I think the thing the media sort of underestimates is
like I don't care anymore, and I don't think they
care anymore. I think this is like old news from
the past, and that doesn't mean like I'm going to
be hanging out at mar a lago or anything. It
just means that I'm like very happy with the policy
and hanet decisions. I really love a ton of his
cabinet choices, and I really feel much safer right now.
Speaker 1 (33:06):
Yeah, there is a there's a I can't describe, but
it is a feeling in the air. And just one
last point about a cultural change. I was in give
a speech in downtown LA yesterday and as I'm peeling
out of the event space, I see this young black guy,
tall black guy with a giant Trump twenty twenty four
hoodie on in downtown LA. Like I was like, this
is this would never have been anything I could only imagine,
(33:31):
Like just I don't know two years ago, it does
feel like we have all the optimism going for us
and it's kind of ours to lose. Makes the left
is seen.
Speaker 2 (33:40):
Is also like starting to interrupt you. Like I was
trying to explain this to like friends of mine. We're Democrats,
and like it's not just a political problem, but that's
a great one. It is a social and branding problem.
Democrats are seen as like hysterical, they'll run to hr
if you use a wrong pronoun. They're obsessed with, like
you know, culture, stuff. They want your kids, all your
kids to be trans like there. It is such a
(34:01):
monument of insanity that I wouldn't like if you like
tasked me with Megan fixed this. I actually don't know
where I would start because it's such a mess. But
I do know that David Hogg is not the answer
and that you haven't learned lessons.
Speaker 1 (34:15):
When they when he announced he was running eye laught
when he won, I was like, wait a second. You
guys are like this is the this is your outreach.
And even his like Cam Kazinski whatever that kid's name is,
who was in the school, Like yeah, yeah, he was like,
are you guys crazy?
Speaker 2 (34:33):
Like they learned no lessons? If you think a gun
grabbing you know, pronoun bio twenty four year old progressive
who's you know? I mean, respect is horrific. He's famous
because of a horrific tragedy. Like it's just so you know,
your problem is many things, but most of it is
also men in America don't like you or trust you
(34:56):
because they think you're weird, and it's like you don't
have like you know, I I guess the chair. I
don't know anything about him, but I guess he's like
maybe an image of like a more working everyman. But
I just can't believe. I honestly thought it was like
a clarity when they nominated him.
Speaker 1 (35:10):
For by right. But the problem with their idea of
working everyman's is it's like somebody in like working class face,
like it is like it's not like it's like this.
Speaker 2 (35:20):
Just play that cosplay.
Speaker 1 (35:22):
Yeah, it's it's cosplay and it's obvious cosplay, and they
just can't they it's so endemic that it's it's it's
so problematic and it's such a big turn off to
both young people and men, and young people who, by
the way, were really who had their formative lives changed
by COVID. I mean gen X, sorry gen Z. Rather
is two different generations before and after COVID generation Make
(35:46):
McCain thank you for doing this, Thank you for being
on What So Citizen McCain is your podcast. I highly
recommend it. I listen every single week.
Speaker 2 (35:54):
Way to come back soon.
Speaker 1 (35:55):
Yeah, you let me know. That's it's a fun, fun podcast.
They talk everything from culture to being moms to politics.
Speaker 2 (36:02):
I'm like, I'm such a shit talk No, it's.
Speaker 1 (36:05):
So Yeah, it's much more gossiply than this podcast, but
it's good. It's good. And then your substack is Megan
McCain dot substack dot com. I highly recommend everyone just
check out her podcast and look at her substack. It's
so good. Thank you, thank you, thank you for being on.
Speaker 2 (36:19):
Thank you, Ryan. I'm so happy for your new podcast
and I can't wait to see you and DC soon.
Speaker 1 (36:24):
Thank you for listening this week's episode of A Numbers
Game with Ryan Grodski. Please like and subscribe on Apple Podcasts,
iHeartRadio app, or wherever you get your podcasts. Tune in
next week. I'll see you there
Welcome back to a numbers game with Ryan Gardoski. So
we are headed towards the middle of Trump's first one
hundred days in office. It's a big part of his
agenda so far has been getting his cabinet confirmed, which
is the very first part of every kind of administration's agenda.
While some of his team, like Marco Rubio, have sailed
through the confirmation he was confirmed ninety nine to zero,
(00:24):
some of Team Trump's toughest challenges lay ahead of him
when it comes to confirmation, and that's the confirmation of
the former Democrats. That's Robert F. Kennedy Junior for the
Secretary of Health and Human Services, Tulsea Gabbert for the
Director of National Intelligence, and Cash Ptel for FBI Director.
I'm not exactly sure if Cash was officially a Democrat,
but he got his start in the Obama administration's Justice
(00:46):
Apartment back in twenty fourteen, so that's why I'm including him.
It looks like that none of these people, despite being
former Democrats, are affiliated with Democratic passive administrations, are going
to receive much of any support from Senate Demors, who
have given their support to other ones of Trump's nominees.
Like Senator Rubio. The only remaining Trump pick who looks
(01:06):
like he's they're going to receive any substantial support from
the Democrats is Labor Secretary Lorie Chavez Demurror. She was
a former congressman from Oregon who actually had a number
of Republicans openly opposing her because she's so pro union.
But back to Patel, Gabbard and RFK, it looks like
all three Mey get through, but just by the Pete
hegsgeth margin of fifty to fifty with Pete received fifty
(01:28):
Republican votes and then Vice President Jadvance cast the tie
breaking vote in his favor. They all have a bit
of controversy in their background. After twenty twenty. Pateel got
very close to conspiracy theorists with the twenty twenty election,
and then after that pretty close with mqanon. People said
some very kind of out there things. Then there's RFK,
who has got more stories than Mother Goose. He had
(01:49):
some kind of a lot of questionings with vaccines that
he's backed away from. He had the conversation where he
brought a dead bear to Central Park. He had a
brain worm, He had a very very ugly divorced from
his first wife that unfortunately ended with her taking her
own life. And there's a lot of pushback from the
more religious wing of the GOP because of his positions
on abortion, which are very very pro choice. And then lastly,
(02:11):
the person I want to focus on today is Tulsi Gabbard.
A lot of the hawkish wing of the GOP has
opposed her primarily because of our positions on Edward Snowden,
which Edward Snowden was an American who worked for the
I guess the administrative state or the deep state, who
found during that Obama's presidency, the American government was spy
on every American and he leaked that information to a
(02:32):
news outlet and had to then flee to Russia. And
Tulsi and many people have wanted him assassinated. Many politicians
have wanted him assassinated. And Tulsi does not have that
same position against Noden that a lot of politicians do.
And then she had a meeting with former Syrian dictator
Bashir Alossade many years ago, who is no longer in power.
These two stories are not relevant towards today. Alasade is
(02:55):
obviously no longer in power in Syria and Edward Snodan
is something that happened over a decade ago. But the
mar of error for Republicans is very thin. With three
Republicans basically hinting they're going to oppose all of Trump's nominees,
that being McConnell, Murkowski, and Curtis McConnell from Kentucky, Mkowski
from Alaska, and Curtis from Utah. It's a fifty fifty
majority for these three people. It looks like they're all
(03:17):
going to get in, but by the skin of their teeth,
with absolutely no margin of error. And is Tulsi in
particular that is important and is interesting because what she
represents is a departure from Bush era Republicanism, Bush era
neo conservatism, sort of the way that Jadvans did and
he received a lot of pushback when he was running
for Senate in twenty twenty two. But Tulsi is made
(03:38):
it so central to her identity. She is a veteran.
She has served in the military in war zones as
a medic. She has been in Iraq, I think in Afghanistan,
but I think one of definitely one of the other.
And she has seen the toll of forever wars in
a way that many members of Congress who have voted
for these wars have never seen it. So her nomination,
(04:00):
her being confirmed is a departure from a Republican party
that many people have been looking to get passed for
quite a long time. My guest this week has been
fighting for Tulcie's nomination for weeks now, appearing everywhere in
the media to tell centrals Republicans why they should support her.
So we'll be back with Megan McCain after these messages.
(04:22):
My guest this week is the host of the fantastic
podcast Citizen McCain, who is actually my number one podcast
of last year that I listened to and the and
she has a great substack Megan McCain dot substack dot com.
Megan McCain, Megan, you've had a very Bryan Yeah, we're
very good friends. I know, I don't want to introduce that,
but yeah, we're good friends anyway. All right, So, Megan,
(04:46):
we you've had like a super busy few weeks. You've
had a media like renaissance over Tulsi Cabard's Tulci Gabbard's confirmation,
and it looks like she's finally over the hump after
a lot of bump the roads. What has it been
like on the inside as far as the anticipation whether
or not she could be confirmed?
Speaker 2 (05:08):
So I never lost I always thought she was gonna
be confirmed, which you can attest to, like I was
always like, like I felt like I was. People were
like gaslighting me that it wasn't gonna happen, and a
lot of people were like, oh, you got to sacrifice someone,
and it's obviously going to be the woman because like
we lost women, and like I said, all and I
feel like, because you know, like for people that don't
(05:29):
know background, we're good friends because I'm around her so much,
and I'm around her in public spaces where I have
been able to see how people react to her. I
don't think people were really aware of just her huge
following and her grassroots support among like a very interesting
demographic of American voters. So I never like thought it
(05:49):
wouldn't happen. But I did like have to pull my
fangs out a little bit and really use some of
my like experience growing up in round political circles to
like throw threats out, which I normally don't do. But
I felt like it was warranted in that situation, and
I just felt like there's a lot of senators that
need reminding that this coalition is a broad one and
(06:13):
it goes way beyond like Bush era politics that I
think are like long gone. And there's a long winded answer.
But I wasn't I wasn't worried about it, but like
I went on a podcast with Sean Spicer and Mark
Halpern and Dan Turntine the day after the hearing, and
Sean was like, he straight up said she's disqualified, and
we had a debate about it. He did not like
(06:34):
her answer on Snowden and he said it was completely disqualifying,
and we had a debate about it. We didn't like
yell or anything, but we had a debate about it,
and you know, I just it's been a really interesting
experience just from the politics of it. But I'm she's
you know, getting confirmed. I don't know when this airs,
but it's getting's getting confirmed this week.
Speaker 1 (06:55):
It will be on Tuesday. So yeah, I think that
the as few senators who were opposing her, I mean
their problem. Rakowski may probably opposed her, and maybe McConnell
and Curtis, but the number needed have basically all fallen
by the wayside, which were Senator Young from Indiana sent
her Langford from Oklahoma. They've come out and support of her.
Senator Collins was an fairly early supporter, I mean for
(07:19):
her as far as the moderate senators go, and Collins
is in a much tougher reelection bid than anybody else
if you would consider her being controversial. The internal argument,
First of all, Tulsi's evolution. Do you think knowing her,
that she's had one an internal evolution since you first
(07:39):
met her when it comes to politics, having now being
a Republican for being a Democrat.
Speaker 2 (07:44):
Yeah, you know, when I first met her, she was
obviously a Democrat. She was running for president. It was
like right before she was running for a president against
you know, in the Democrat coalition, and she kind of,
I think, experienced very similar things that I did, which
you know, like it's obviously mine dissimilar because I was
working in media, but in politics, like if you're just
(08:06):
screamed at because you like want basic things, you like
are patriotic and you love America and like you're religious
and you love God, and you like love our military,
and you're like abused publicly of it. It will change
your perspective on the world. And I think, you know, honestly,
Democrats have just gotten so progressive and so radical that
she's not She's not like that at all. So I
(08:27):
think her evolution was very natural and I of got
to see it in real time.
Speaker 1 (08:31):
Yeah. I think it's also funny when you have a
Democrat friend who as an adult starts becoming a Republican,
Like they start dropping these little like nuttings. They're like, hmm,
that's an interesting comment you made.
Speaker 2 (08:42):
It.
Speaker 1 (08:43):
Let me internalize that for a second. I think so.
Speaker 2 (08:45):
Many friends like this, by the way, especially in the
past post COVID time, and people that I like love
dearly who are like the most red pilled, like like
I like not to like give a shout out. My
friend Nate, who lives in Virginia Beach I love to
live in New York together has made this like complete.
It is now like even more conservative than I am,
(09:06):
and I definitely anecdotally in my life. Yet Democrats to
understand the grave disaster of like generational disaster COVID did
to an entire group of people.
Speaker 1 (09:17):
In this tense. I have a friend who is a
former Democrat who like, how did like a Thomas Soul
book with them? I go, how did you hear about
Thomas Soule? I know how I know about him, but
how did you hear about him? Yeah, no, it's super
interesting that happened. I think a turning point for Tulsi,
especially in relation to the media, was when she went
after and destroyed Kamala Harris's bid first bid for the
(09:40):
presidency during the debate. That ended Kamala Harris's entire bit,
and that kind of altered fundamentally altered everyone's in the
media's relation with them. You worked in the media for years,
did you did you start noticing how people how did
people talk about her like regular Democrats? Was that she was,
you know, out to pasture at that point?
Speaker 2 (10:00):
You know, I specifically remember like at the View, you
know that when she originally came on, it was like
a much friendlier place for her, Like people were just
much more you know, I think like like liked her
a lot more. And then I remember she came on,
was I think it was before that or after that.
I don't remember, Like around that time when she had
(10:21):
you know, shipped Vice President Harrison stage, and uh, there
was definitely a shift of like questioning just like if
her loyalty to the party and you know, things like that,
and you know, the one of the things we've always
bonded over is having like really insane stereotypes and perceptions
of us in the media.
Speaker 1 (10:40):
I've met total see person I think twice. She's extremely stoic.
She has the best posture ever met on a single person.
I mean, considering my postures and this, I'm like, you're
always standing up.
Speaker 2 (10:52):
Straight, hary thing she does.
Speaker 1 (10:59):
She's got great I think. I like, I noticed those
things about people, like people have got great teeth, they're
great posture and like things. I'm like, oh, that's really
I got to learn how to stand up straight more often?
Do you what? Does do you think that her misinterpretation
from her career in the military, she I mean, I
guess the word that people need to say about women,
(11:21):
she's icy. Do you think that's about me too? Yeah,
they've said that about you two. Do you think that
that's where it is? It's just that you're not Jenna Bush.
Not that's anything wrong with her, but like you know,
it's not you're not you know, the morning news personality
of like a bubbly woman and that has created being
a woman definitely creates the perception of being icy. I
(11:41):
don't think that her her personality as much of it
than Mike Waltz's. Is it a personality, I think, or
is it a position?
Speaker 2 (11:48):
I think just to be a strong woman, people will
call you icy or call you a bitch. And I
think I actually think that image of her has really
changed a lot. I think people have gotten to know
her a lot more. She's done a lot more personal
interviews like on Joe Rogan and Me and on.
Speaker 1 (12:02):
Your podcast was great, Yeah, thank you.
Speaker 2 (12:05):
And by the way, I feel weird that I'm not
her spokesperson and I'm not like you know, it's like
we're just good friends. And I think people are just
curious about why, because you know, I think on paper,
it probably looks weird. She's vegan. She exercises every day,
Like you know, I am not vegan. I don't. It's
a different, much healthier life while than I do. And
but the core of who we are is extremely is
(12:26):
very similar.
Speaker 1 (12:27):
Yeah, And I think that people just assume you would
always be like pro war or pro or they probably
call you an ne O'Connor whatever, and it's obviously partially
because of the background of you know, how your dad
voted on a lot of things, but also I think
because and I want to ask you about this specifically,
the media is default pro war. Like the Iraq War.
(12:51):
There was no voices in the mainstream media opposing that.
Back twenty years ago, there was. I mean, the only
day that Donald Trump got positive covered on MSNBC in
his entire first term was the day that he struck
Syria after the gas attack. He got wall to while
positive coverage the Afghanistan withdrawal of Biden was a disaster,
but it was panned, the idea was panned even more so.
(13:15):
I think that part, and you could disagree with me, I
think part of Tulsi's pushback is if you are even
anything opposed to either the intelligence community or the war community,
you are problematic in their eyes. I mean, I.
Speaker 2 (13:30):
Also think one of the things that became really from
the experience of physically attending the hearing with her, one
of the things that I became acutely aware of is
I was like, oh my god, a lot of these people,
I would say, probably like seventy five percent of the
senators asking your questions, I was like they clearly don't
know a war weary Iraq and Afghanistan veteran. They are
obviously surrounded by, like, at least on the Republican side,
(13:53):
like the Bush era coalition of people, especially in regards
to foreign policy, is actually still quite strong in DC,
super strong. I don't know people I know that, but
they actually despite the fact that Bush was president when
I was in high school. But it is I think
that they are not aware that, even for me, the
tenor and tone of the country and the country's attitude
(14:15):
towards war has has shifted. And you don't need to,
you know, take my word for it. Look at Trump
and look at data and polling, and I think, you know,
especially just like anecdotally in my life, two of my brothers,
you know, did multiple tours in Iraq and Afghanistan. My
one brother, Jimmy, enlisted when he was sixteen. My parents
had to sign like a form that he could go
(14:37):
in the army that young. You know, I'll never forget
the first day when I say goodbye to him, when
he deployed to Iraq the first time is horrific. And
you know, even for like my brother Jimmy, like he's
very isolationisty and he wouldn't mind me saying it. I
have asked him in the past. Few minds me like
sharing that. And like my brother in law, who has
(14:58):
done many tours in Iraq and Afghanistan, this still serving
like it doesn't feel it feels like very aligned with Tulsi.
And I think the thing that some of these older
generational politicians don't understand is there's a lot of people
in this country, if you served or didn't, that we're
lied to about weapons of mass destruction, that have been
given ample reasons not to trust the government. In a
post COVID time, I stopped trusting. I was a lot
(15:20):
more trusting and like naive about the government and people
running it pre COVID than I am after now. I mean,
I I am like, you know, probably more conspiratorial than
people you know better than anyone, and very defiant about
like I do not trust these people.
Speaker 1 (15:36):
Well. I think Tulsi's opinions also line up with another veteran,
which is JD. Vance. I think that you have you know,
I think I think for millennials.
Speaker 2 (15:47):
One thing like she's also like a big supporter of
Israel and like at post October seventh, like went to
the Israel March with me and like understands that there
are situations where like you should be supporting different countries
and different situations like right, I think there's this like
image of her like a bond villain, like it's just
for no circumstances ever, and I think people just are
aren't really nuanced enough to to you know, read or
(16:10):
listen to all her thoughts and perspective.
Speaker 1 (16:12):
Right, and when I don't, I don't want to paint
her a picture.
Speaker 2 (16:14):
And as a complete to you.
Speaker 1 (16:16):
No, I know that, I just I don't want to. Yeah,
that's important enough to paint her a picture as an isolationists.
I mean, but there are some senators where if you
give them five minutes to tell them why we should
invade Mongolia, they would be one hundred percent for it.
Like there are some people who before literally any.
Speaker 2 (16:29):
Single I think lind Graham would probably invade Canada given
the right reason.
Speaker 1 (16:33):
Yeah, I mean no, it's it's a where they would yeah,
I mean where they would be like, yeah, military ships
in Greenland, let's go for it. And there's no there's
no war. You know that you would have spent more
time convincing them against a war than convinced them for
a war. And I think that if you have the
experience of being in a war zone, especially, I think
(16:56):
didn't still see that she was a medic, right, she
was a medican the war zone. So she probably some
people die and that probably really shapes you your opinion
on how the people the what's what's the old quote
old men who vote for wars that young men go
to or something like that. I think that probably definitely
definitely forms your opinion when it comes to the position
of national intelligence. Why, I mean, why do you think
(17:21):
the intelligent community fears her? And why do you think
that she's be perfect for the job, because I.
Speaker 2 (17:26):
Think they know that she's going to root out corruption
the way that like, you know, Doge is doing. Even
though you can like have your opinions on like Elon's role,
which is totally fine, But I think the one thing
that President Trump has made clear and his you know,
coalition in his cabinet has made clear to me is
like this is a time of extreme change. Americans want
extreme change. I felt like I really would not have
(17:48):
survived another four year or the country wouldn't have survived
another four years with Kamala's leadership, because we're just like
drowning in so many different ways. And I think the
intelligence community is aware that she's in some ways an
outsider another way is not just given her history and
background in the military and in Congress. I also just,
I mean candidly, I think there's an element of sexism
in this, which is not something I throw around easily
(18:09):
at all. The fact that you know, these Congress people
were calling her Tulsi instead of lieutenant colonel or congresswoman
I found offensive if you're just not going to call
like cash Patel cash in a.
Speaker 1 (18:20):
Hearing, which is the name of his coin. Coin I
think is the coin. I'm not joking yet.
Speaker 2 (18:27):
And I think she would be really good at the
job because a like I, you know, I just know
from being around her so much, she takes like the
national security of this country to heart and to bed
with her at night. Like she's, you know, deeply fearful
of our enemies. She knows who they are. She she
is very very patriotic and committed, and she's going to
work her ass off, and I legitimately believe that she
(18:50):
will make this country safer. I was telling her in person.
I don't think she mind me sharing this with you. Like,
I love going to New Orleans. It's one of my
favorite cities. I'm like pretty scared to go to Bourbon
Street now since the terror attack and Jen, Yeah, a
lot of things that aren't that I'm you know, I'm not.
I don't live in a place of fear, but like,
I'm more uncomfortable than I used to be, even every
time I go to a big concert, you know, even
sometimes a movie theater. Like yeah, So I just think
(19:13):
she's she's committed in a way that I just don't
think other people would be to rooting out corruption and
getting to the bottom of up.
Speaker 1 (19:20):
Yeah. I mean, I I know from my personal experience.
I do not go see big movies on the opening weekends.
I haven't since the Joker shooting. I don't. I don't
really love outdoor concerts since the Vegas shooting. And I
mean I'm in I'm in New Orleans right now, so
I'm not really New Orleans. But but but uh, the uh,
but the thing is, like I just don't understand why
(19:41):
every time we have a terrorist attack or a lone
wolf attack, we hear afterwards, oh this person was on
our Intelligence Communities watch list, Well, how did they get
a gun or a bomb? Like, how did no one
that would follow up? Why we're like that is the
one thing I never understand. You know a few of
my friends of mind, like Ryan, the intelligent communities basically
(20:02):
people read the newspaper and tell you what was in
the news. Like they're not these are not like insanely active.
You know, a network of FBI agents taking on the
Soviet Union anymore? One person on Twitter, one person on Twitter,
So we have to confirm Toulci and then she has
to make sure spies are hot again.
Speaker 2 (20:22):
I'm part to disappoint that. I don't think that's a priority.
Speaker 1 (20:26):
Which was hysterically funny when it comes to like the
media apparatus, because you worked for Fox, ABC and I
think one other.
Speaker 2 (20:34):
One rights NBC. Yeah, iHeartRadio got a long behind me
working in spaces you.
Speaker 1 (20:42):
Said, you said oftentimes that, like you said, especiallybout ABC,
like there's no one there who likes Republicans. Yeah, if
you're I.
Speaker 2 (20:53):
Encountered in the almost you know, four and a half
years I was there.
Speaker 1 (20:56):
Yeah, I mean since Trump won, the left seems very defeated.
I mean they just I've never seen the left kind
of like this, where they don't really have a coherent message.
You have like Maxine Waters or Chuck Schumer like raising
their canes in the air as they're like pro image
is just they don't like what Chuck Sheamer said. The
American public has never been more aroused than it is
(21:17):
right now. I mean, they don't have a coherent leader,
a message, or even like a chant that they get
sit there and rally around. It seems to be coming
in the media as well as far as the reaction
towards Trump, where they it almost looks like a surrender.
Do you think that the media getting it very, very
wrong and getting the appetite of the public so wrong
(21:37):
in twenty twenty four changes anything.
Speaker 2 (21:41):
Look the ratings for CNN. I mean, I don't remember
the exact show, but it's like reruns of Jeopardy at
three in the morning get better than they're making up
what show it is. But it's like, you know, when
as many people are watching my Instagram stories as your
morning show, Like, I think there's an issue. I don't
(22:02):
trust any of these networks. I do still watch Fox,
and my husband works for them, but obviously I'm.
Speaker 1 (22:06):
Their ratings are through the rooms, so you know, the
way you want.
Speaker 2 (22:10):
And I don't include them in this analysis, but I
think that, you know, just from my personal experience, it's
not just that they don't care about understanding how you know,
fifty five percent of the American public lives, so that
they have a disdain for it. And I think when
you see like Margaret Brennan's attitude and behavior and body
language when she's interviewing JD. Vance and then like screaming
(22:32):
about how Republicans are going to fix the price of bacon,
like you know, you probably live in a multimillion dollar
place someplace in you know, the belt Way, and you know,
I would love to know how many like normal Americans
she's speaking to, because it didn't come off like a lot.
And I think, look, I just don't you know, maybe
this makes me like a masochist or gross person or
(22:52):
something or not a mascist a statist. I really love
this moment, Like I love that everybody that's been so
disgusting to conservatives is like around and having a hard
time and you know, not to like give you TMI,
but like I've had quite a few people reach out
to me wanting to do interviews with lots of different
friends of mine, not just TOLSI, and I'm not helping them. Yeah, thing,
(23:12):
but crap all over me and people like me. For years,
I've basically been called an extremist and a radical, particularly the.
Speaker 1 (23:20):
Past, and those are the nice words exactly.
Speaker 2 (23:24):
You know, you guys are drowning in this. In this
you can you can figure out how to get your
way out of it. Now, I'm not going to help you.
Speaker 1 (23:30):
You're listening to It's a numbers game with Ryan Grodowski.
We'll be right back after this message. What is amazing
to me is that it wasn't like they they bought
in on progressive ideas, on things that no one believes in,
going into like the like transgenderism argument for like miners,
like every leftist argument they believed like wholesale. There was
(23:54):
nothing that they pushed back on for years. I mean,
I mean New York Times only recently started being like, hey,
a bunch of studies that transgenderism in children is not
really not but transgender surgery in children is not really wonderful,
and these drugs are not great for miners or twelve
years old. That took like six seven years to come
(24:14):
out like they did not have a single voice in
the woods to say hey, like there was no diversity
of opinion whatsoever. And I know, like the La Times
is hiring somebody right now, but I haven't seen I
mean any kind of come to Jesus moment on any
of these networks as far as like this big reshuffle.
I mean, they're having these openings now, these people are leaving,
but I can't imagine an open conservative taking any of
(24:37):
these jobs.
Speaker 2 (24:38):
Well, that's part of the problem is it's not that
they just are maybe not offering, Like I mean, I've
had many offers since I left The View and I
will never ever work in cable news. I mean I
did not have you know, I'm not including Fox, but
I'm not working at Box and we're planning on it.
But I would never work in There's nothing, there's no
(24:59):
amount of money, there's no amounta because it doesn't matter
if you're the token person. It matters that like the
producers and the network and the host and everybody just
wants to railroad you and you're this person that's just
going to sit there and get screamed at. I mean,
I think that man that is on CNN does a
great job. I'm sorry I forgot his name because I
don't watch CNN, but there's like a token got Jennings
sut Jennings. Yes, the clips him. He does like a
(25:21):
very great job. But like, I don't know if I
can swear on This's like, who the fuck wants to
do that?
Speaker 1 (25:25):
Every day I was on, I was a Jim Banks
is inauguration and I saw Scott there and I looked
at Jim afterwards, and I Senator Jim banksman aiain and
I said, wow, I thought I was on the most
famous person who was on CNN on this in this
room right now. But that did not happen. His producer
producer I'm seen and actually emailed me yesterday. I said,
would you come on our network? And I'm like, yeah,
I was like, I think I'm banned for life from
(25:48):
your network. I don't think I can come on your network,
but I.
Speaker 2 (25:51):
Think gradge of honor.
Speaker 1 (25:53):
I was like, you probably should reach out to your
higher ups to see if I'm allowed to come on,
And then they never replied to me.
Speaker 2 (26:00):
So I don't know it's worth whenever they And again
I'm not trying to have like a struggle session about
how much we hate CNN, but like they've done this
to themselves, Like they've asked me to come on quite
a bit in the last year, and I always say
no because it's just really not worth my time for
a lot of different reasons. And I'm shocked did they
keep asking, like, yeah, I'm not interested in going on
(26:21):
with like you know, I just and I feel bad
because they have friends that work at SEEING and know
we're really nice people. But I think how many.
Speaker 1 (26:28):
Times can you be called a racist? Is like the
question like how like that is the honest to god
question when you were ever? When ever I did CNN.
The way it works in cable news is you get
a email from the producers a few hours before the
show with all the topics that you're going to be
covering on it. Like when I Owe did Appy Phillips, it
was an hour worth of topics, and then about forty
five minutes before you go on set, they change every
(26:49):
topic and all the research you've done is completely yeah,
And then every question is like the first question, so
Republicans are racists? Second question, follow up, follow up thing,
why are Republicans so racist? And you have to sit
there and defend and make an argument the entire time,
and there are some really good lesson Van Jones was
always a pleasure to work with a lot of other people.
That woman Allison is having a nervous breakdown on CNN
(27:11):
that she was never paid enough, but she has two
bachelor's degrees. She was never a nice person to be
your own, So, I mean, I guess it's the person.
But what is this moment like for you being somebody
who was critical of Trump for so long and for
personal reasons and I think for philosophical positions, there's a
lot to like about this moment right now with the
(27:34):
Trump administration is there, and you're not like a maga
Republican though that's your new brand that they're titling you with.
Speaker 2 (27:41):
I don't think maga people are think that about me,
though I think.
Speaker 1 (27:43):
Maybe they're warmed up to you.
Speaker 2 (27:45):
A lot left doing people probably think that, but I
don't think maga people think that.
Speaker 1 (27:49):
Yeah, but what is this moment like for you as
somebody who was critical of him but kind of likes
what he does?
Speaker 2 (27:55):
So obviously there's personal right of course over ten years
old that you know. What's so funny is even like
the most ardent Trump supporters or like if somebody said
that I'm about my family, I feel the same way
you did, like you should tend to give me a pass.
And also, I know polling wise, Trump's criticism of my
dad and the con family is one of the few
things that ever made his support drop with his face
(28:16):
whatever that's worth. Like, I don't like it, but it's
very old and I you know, you know me, like
I'm a pretty religious person. I'm a very spiritual person,
and my relationship with God is very important to me,
and forgiveness is a big part of my life. And
I've forgiven Trump for me, and I'm forgiven for him.
I've forgiven him a long time ago because for me,
(28:36):
I just want to be a happy person, to live
a happy life. And it's just like for me, I
have let this go a long time ago. But I,
like everybody else, I've experienced, you know, like all the
stuff everybody else did, I did too during COVID post COVID,
the culture war stuff, the political stuff like Biden was
just drowning this country on many different levels. And I
(28:57):
think just like holistically having this like decred but old
man whose brain was mashed potatoes. Leading the country was
a very scary experience. It's true. I've said that numerous times.
I stand by that his brains mass potatoes, and I.
Speaker 1 (29:07):
Don't, right, I love how by the way, can you
just say for one second you like the Bidens were
never you are like god parents, Like there was this
image that they were their best friend.
Speaker 2 (29:18):
They the Bidens were friends with my parents when they
were younger, when they were like you know, when they
first met in like got the late seventies, and then
obviously when my dad was very sick. I President Biden's
son Bo died of the same brain cancer my dad did,
and he was very kind to us during that process.
That would never say different. He was lovely. I think
he was a very different person than than he is now,
(29:40):
for whatever that's worth. And then that my personal backstory
is they asked me to endorse him during the convention
when he was nominated, and I said no because I'm
a Republican, and you know, like it just I didn't.
I honestly like his choice of calm life. I was
so petrified, like like Treby is someone that you could
never do anything like this, and just like I'm not
(30:01):
a Democrat and when I said no, they never spoke
to me again.
Speaker 1 (30:05):
Yeah, well, I just people need to know that because
people have this interpretation that you guys were like vacationing
every summer together.
Speaker 2 (30:13):
I don't think I've ever even actually been to Delaware.
I think you're on an amtrak.
Speaker 1 (30:20):
That's funny. So yeah, but I think that for a
lot of people who are who didn't like full out
leave the party and join the Lincoln Project in the
last eight years, they're like, they're like Trump's doing a
good job, like they can open to them, and they
said Trump is doing a good job. I was talking
to somebody I did a speech yesterday in California, and
they were asking me, like, wow, I feel this person
or that person. I said, I like them enough, like
(30:41):
they're politicians. I'm not like I like them enough until
I don't like them. But I think that a lot
of Republicans are who didn't go along with Trump for
the first eight years, are at the point with him
right now saying I like him enough, like he's good
enough right now.
Speaker 2 (30:56):
I like again, like character wise is just not you
know right what I her, But I mean policy wise,
I'm thrilled, like not to be like gross or whatever,
but like I'm having a great time right now. I
want to be like whatever. But like everything I said
was gonna happen and got screamed at and harassed and abused,
you know, in lots of different spaces has come true.
(31:18):
And everybody I don't like it looks like a moron
because they got everything wrong. And this really is like
a renaissance for conservatism. And you know, to be someone
who has been like a lifelong conservative on TV for
so long talking about it and to have this moment
where we're cool and popular and culturally cool, and you know,
I can now like I have two young girls, as
you know, and I can send them to My eldest
(31:40):
daughter is a really incredible swimmer, Like she's four years
old and she loves it. She's very good. She's already
in advanced classes. It's definitely gonna be her sport. And
like I'm not gonna lie like seeing Lea Thomas really
freaking out about her continuing in this sport and now
like Trump signed all of this, and now I know
that like she can compete against other girls, like is awesome,
Like like I am so happy. I I and honestly,
(32:02):
like Tulsi's inclusion in the cabinet to me is like
even just metaphorically and and our case as well, it's
an olive branch to you know, I think I'm probably
more like in their space politically, I get I don't know.
I mean, I'm more probably more conservative than they are, but.
Speaker 1 (32:17):
Like definitely I think you're more definitely concern of the
RFK is, but I think that you have concerns over
our food supply, like.
Speaker 2 (32:24):
So excited for red like red dye to be banned
and stuff, and I'm really excited, like right now, I
choose to be optimistic and I really genuinely feel excited
about things. And you know, I can table my personal
feelings about Trump, but it's don't even like it because
I don't like hate him. I just like have personal
viewed from a long time ago for what he did
(32:45):
to my dad. But I also think, no, I don't.
I think the thing the media sort of underestimates is
like I don't care anymore, and I don't think they
care anymore. I think this is like old news from
the past, and that doesn't mean like I'm going to
be hanging out at mar a lago or anything. It
just means that I'm like very happy with the policy
and hanet decisions. I really love a ton of his
cabinet choices, and I really feel much safer right now.
Speaker 1 (33:06):
Yeah, there is a there's a I can't describe, but
it is a feeling in the air. And just one
last point about a cultural change. I was in give
a speech in downtown LA yesterday and as I'm peeling
out of the event space, I see this young black guy,
tall black guy with a giant Trump twenty twenty four
hoodie on in downtown LA. Like I was like, this
is this would never have been anything I could only imagine,
(33:31):
Like just I don't know two years ago, it does
feel like we have all the optimism going for us
and it's kind of ours to lose. Makes the left
is seen.
Speaker 2 (33:40):
Is also like starting to interrupt you. Like I was
trying to explain this to like friends of mine. We're Democrats,
and like it's not just a political problem, but that's
a great one. It is a social and branding problem.
Democrats are seen as like hysterical, they'll run to hr
if you use a wrong pronoun. They're obsessed with, like
you know, culture, stuff. They want your kids, all your
kids to be trans like there. It is such a
(34:01):
monument of insanity that I wouldn't like if you like
tasked me with Megan fixed this. I actually don't know
where I would start because it's such a mess. But
I do know that David Hogg is not the answer
and that you haven't learned lessons.
Speaker 1 (34:15):
When they when he announced he was running eye laught
when he won, I was like, wait a second. You
guys are like this is the this is your outreach.
And even his like Cam Kazinski whatever that kid's name is,
who was in the school, Like yeah, yeah, he was like,
are you guys crazy?
Speaker 2 (34:33):
Like they learned no lessons? If you think a gun
grabbing you know, pronoun bio twenty four year old progressive
who's you know? I mean, respect is horrific. He's famous
because of a horrific tragedy. Like it's just so you know,
your problem is many things, but most of it is
also men in America don't like you or trust you
(34:56):
because they think you're weird, and it's like you don't
have like you know, I I guess the chair. I
don't know anything about him, but I guess he's like
maybe an image of like a more working everyman. But
I just can't believe. I honestly thought it was like
a clarity when they nominated him.
Speaker 1 (35:10):
For by right. But the problem with their idea of
working everyman's is it's like somebody in like working class face,
like it is like it's not like it's like this.
Speaker 2 (35:20):
Just play that cosplay.
Speaker 1 (35:22):
Yeah, it's it's cosplay and it's obvious cosplay, and they
just can't they it's so endemic that it's it's it's
so problematic and it's such a big turn off to
both young people and men, and young people who, by
the way, were really who had their formative lives changed
by COVID. I mean gen X, sorry gen Z. Rather
is two different generations before and after COVID generation Make
(35:46):
McCain thank you for doing this, Thank you for being
on What So Citizen McCain is your podcast. I highly
recommend it. I listen every single week.
Speaker 2 (35:54):
Way to come back soon.
Speaker 1 (35:55):
Yeah, you let me know. That's it's a fun, fun podcast.
They talk everything from culture to being moms to politics.
Speaker 2 (36:02):
I'm like, I'm such a shit talk No, it's.
Speaker 1 (36:05):
So Yeah, it's much more gossiply than this podcast, but
it's good. It's good. And then your substack is Megan
McCain dot substack dot com. I highly recommend everyone just
check out her podcast and look at her substack. It's
so good. Thank you, thank you, thank you for being on.
Speaker 2 (36:19):
Thank you, Ryan. I'm so happy for your new podcast
and I can't wait to see you and DC soon.
Speaker 1 (36:24):
Thank you for listening this week's episode of A Numbers
Game with Ryan Grodski. Please like and subscribe on Apple Podcasts,
iHeartRadio app, or wherever you get your podcasts. Tune in
next week. I'll see you there
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