Colin Cowherd Podcast - Jokic Is “Inevitable”, Mavs Are “Lopsided”, The Knicks Have Juice, Embiid NEEDS To Win

Colin is  joined by Jason Timpf, host of “Hoops Tonight” to break down the NBA playoff action!

Colin presents his theory of Jokic being an “automatic bucket” to Jason and they agree the Lakers are just completely outmatched in round 1 (5:00). They break down the Wolves physically dominating the Suns in game 1 (26:00) and Colin explains why he wants “more” from Kevin Durant.

They dive into the Clippers dominant loss over the Mavericks and why Dallas didn’t look ready to play (31:45) and wonder if the Mavs are too lopsided… great on offense but lacking too much on defense (39:00)

They debate whether the Knicks’ high-effort style can overcome a better Sixers roster (43:30) and Colin explains why Joel Embiid NEEDS to win more in the playoffs to cement his legacy as one of the league’s great all-time bigs (52:00)

Finally, they talk about the NBA needing to create scarcity and urgency for the benefit of the TV product at a time when nobody takes the regular season seriously (01:02:00).

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Episode Transcript

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Speaker 1 (01:31):
All right, welcome in it's our Sunday Night Monday Morning
podcast with Jason Timpf Hoops tonight. We'll be doing this
for the next six to seven weeks during the NBA
playoffs and sometimes Simplicity wins. I'll give you an example.
So I went to I usually go workout in the mornings.
I get up at about six six fifteen coffee, you know, playwordle,

(01:52):
do some reading, and at about seven thirty seven forty
five I go workout. I did it this morning. And
then from the workout there's a Bristol Farms, a grocery
restore right next to my gym, and I usually go
there and get a piece of fish that I'll have
for lunch. I grew up on the coast of Washington State.
I like my seafood. My kids like their seafood. So
I did that this morning, go work out the incline, cardio,

(02:15):
blah blah blah, And I go to the store. And
I'm not blaming the store at all. This is happening everywhere.
And I get a little smoothie in the smoothie bar,
and then I go get to fish, piece of salmon.
I grew up in Westport, Washington, which was along with Waukegan, Illinois.
We used to battle of small towns for salmon capital
of the world. That was the marquis that was in

(02:36):
the town. So I grew up with a lot of salmon,
a lot of fish, a lot of oysters, a lot
of clams. So when I'm not somebody i've been, I'm
very lucky. I've done well, and I'm very grateful for that.
I don't spend a lot of time checking my food bills.
I kind of go get what I want to get.
So I go to the grocery store probably twice a week.
It's about generally, it's always been about forty five bucks,

(02:57):
forty eight bucks. That's now become sixty dollars. So when
I notice it. I think I don't really check this
stuff that much, so if I'm noticing it, it feels like, oh,
I think a lot of people are. So this morning
when I checked out with my piece of salmon, and
it wasn't a gigantic piece of salmon. It was pretty
pretty slim, a small like lunch portion, it was nineteen

(03:21):
and a half dollars, and usually that's closer to thirteen
or fourteen for a small piece of fish. Now, I
know fish is a luxury. Some people can't afford it. Whatever,
some people can't. I'm lucky, so sometimes we outthink the room.
I watch a lot of these political shows that I
don't normally watch, but I will now be engaged from

(03:42):
about late April May all the way to November. I'll
watch them more than I usually would in election years,
and watching all these political pundits. The only thing that's
gonna matter in this election, because you know, the trial
with Trump is going to, you know, beat him up.
There's gonna people be people win or lose that are
going to move off Trump independence with But I told
this to my daughter. I said, you know, we never

(04:03):
talked about grocery prices. This morning, I went and got
a piece of salmon. It was nineteen dollars. It's usually
like thirteen, fourteen. A year ago, a year and a
half ago. She goes, Dad, that's all my friends talk
about how expensive food is. She was like, that's a
big topic of conversation. She's like, you know, cause we're
all live and check the check. You know, we really

(04:23):
know when we go out eat sum at home, we
can only do appetizers. All we talk about is the
grocery store and how expensive it is. And I was
thinking about this, is that the election is going to
come down to this. If the cost for the average
family continues. If you're driving through McDonald's and it's twenty
two dollars and it used to be thirteen. So now
you need a second bill. Not getting seven dollars back

(04:44):
on a twenty dollars bill, then Biden's in trouble. That's
the election. You can talk about Ukraine, you could talk about.
That's the election. Incumbents win. When the economy's good. It
doesn't matter exactly where the stock market is or where
the housing market is. If people are getting the most
out of their check, they're generally happy and don't want change.
People freak out with any change, especially political change. So

(05:06):
as I say that, the reason I tell you that
story is as I was watching the Lakers and the Nuggets,
and you know, whenever it happens, it's you bang on
the officials, and you bang on Darvin Ham, and you
bang on DiAngelo Russell and once again, you know against
the Nuggets. All Laker Nugget games look the exact same,
But it really comes down to this. They get an
automatic bucket second half, third quarter, or fourth quarter every

(05:29):
time they need it. With Jokich, that's the series. The
Lakers don't have an automatic bucket. Now, ad offensively is
usually good three out of four games. Reeves, di'angelo Russell
can be good, but can dry up Lebron. You know
he's not going to give you the full energy he
gave you six years ago. Jokicch either gets the bucket
or gets the ball to somebody that gets a bucket.

(05:51):
And that's sort of the difference in the last nine
games where Denver beats the Lakers, is that their number
one offensive threat in the second half of games, he's
an automatic, He's a pat from a top field goal kicker,
and you're just not That's the series because the gate
the Lakers have the size, they match up with Denver.
But it's just third quarter, fourth quarter, six seven, eight

(06:14):
possessions that matter. You have a much higher statistical chance
to get a bucket with a Jokic than you do
with Lebron or ad all Right, we bring in Jason
timpf hoops tonight and over the next six to seven weeks.
This is what we do. We chop it up. We
give middle Coff. You know, we're a nice company. We
give middle Cough a little vacation time. Jason could take
this in August and September, November or whatever. Well, he

(06:35):
doesn't take November off. He's an NBA head. All right,
let's bring him in. Jason temp Okay, my theory, my
thoughts about Yokic fire away. What do you see?

Speaker 3 (06:44):
So you know, it's funny. I did my film session
this morning. I just recorded one for my channel that
has I think twenty seven clips from last night's game,
and really everything came down to these two stretches. There's
a ten to zero run for Denver in the middle
of the second quarter, and there was a thirteen oh
run for Denver in the middle of the third quarter,
and the execution for the Lakers was atrocious. As I

(07:07):
sifted through those two runs, they had one good offensive
possession and the totality of those two runs, and you know,
I did this whole rant on the show about execution
and all the different things that the Lakers have to
tighten up, and the reality is is they have to
play perfect, yeah to beat Denver. Yeah, And no one
plays perfect, and that really is the issue because like

(07:30):
even in those even in those runs, a lot of
it is just Denver flexing their muscles. And what happens
is that Denver kind of just does that all game long,
and then you hang onto the rope and you hang
on for dear life. And the Lakers were on it
for about a quarter and a half, you know, and
then when they let go, like that ten to ozero
run in the second quarter was less than two minutes,

(07:51):
that the thirteen oh run in the third quarter was
less than three and a half minutes. Ironically, I thought
the big swing factor in the game was Delo and Austin.
Both were just clearly dead on arrival, Like both of
them were just not ready for that game, and that
put the onus of the shot creation all on Lebron,
and one of the consistent themes for the Lakers all
year is when Lebron gets tired, he gets sloppy. And

(08:15):
when I hate going after Lebron like this because I
thought he was mostly awesome, same last night, but he
was the primary culprit of those two bad runs, and
it just was like he got tired, he got sloppy.
There was no one else there that could execute the
offense without him kind of initiating things, and the wheels
came off, and so, yes, there's a pathway, Yes there

(08:35):
are adjustments, there's a bunch of different things the Lakers
can do, but the reality is is like expecting them
to do that four times in the next six games.

Speaker 4 (08:42):
It's just highly unlike.

Speaker 1 (08:43):
Yeah, if you go to the end of the game,
the last eight or nine minutes, Lebron doesn't take a
lot of shots. And I think he's frustrated with Dangelo
Russell I said when I suggested, you know, guys, facing
Okac for a lot of reasons, is better than Denver.
One of them was the repercussion of getting clobbered again
by Denver. Lebron's got some player options at the end

(09:04):
of the season. They get swept again by Denver, beaten
five back to back gears. He's sitting there thinking, Okay,
I don't trust Darvin Delo doesn't work for me. We
need another player. And by the way, Draymond and Lebron
are close. Those guys are looking for another big body.
Steph needs somebody next to him that can give him
thirty two minutes and twenty six points. That's what he's

(09:26):
looking for, and not a shooter. Not somebody's gonna take
the ball out of his hands too. And by the way,
Steph can play off ball on ball, and so I
think what you're seeing. I almost felt a little bit
last night like Lebron was out of gas. But he
gets frustrated. It's like D'Angelo, you gotta have one good
game against these You gotta give me one, brother, you
gotta give me a twenty nine point game. And I

(09:48):
think this series is really hard on Lebron mentally, because
he is really at this point.

Speaker 3 (09:55):
You know.

Speaker 1 (09:55):
I thought he played really well last night mostly and
ad who didn't, by the way, get on ballot for
Defensive Player of the Year, which is another issue. Entirely.
I thought he was the best defensive player in the League.
But I do wonder the repercussions of this series because
Denver's better. You see it, I see at Denver's better.
They're starting their first six, are just better. Home court advantage,

(10:17):
high altitude, I mean, just makes it harder and harder
and harder. Even the altitude matters. What are the repercussions?
How do you look at this roster if they lose
in five?

Speaker 3 (10:27):
You know it's interesting because I your friend Nick Wright,
came on your show a couple of weeks ago and
he pitched the whole like the Lakers should try to
get Denver in round one thing. And initially I disagreed
with him because I was sitting there thinking like, no,
like you want Jared Vanderbilt to get back, you want
Their defense really only started to kind of pick up

(10:47):
in the last couple of weeks of the year, so
I thought another month of just playoff basketball to polish
up their defense could really help. And so I was
kind of against that take. But once we got into
this series as the matchup, I kind of team ran
around to it based on the fact that last year
I thought the Lakers kind of let go of the
rope because it was like, hey, guys, we made it
to the Western Conference finals. Like you know, a round

(11:09):
of applause. We still had a successful year. There's no
version of this that's not a disaster if they lose, right,
which I think makes it so that you are more
likely to get a more desperate, more engaged effort in
this first round series. And honestly, that first quarter and
a half was the best the Lakers have looked against

(11:29):
the Nuggets in two years plus.

Speaker 1 (11:31):
And one of the only road teams that came in
with more energy than the home team all weekend. I
thought the Lakers playing a brilliant first guy, I was
as good as they can play.

Speaker 3 (11:39):
Other than absolutely yeah, and I do think that. For instance,
like one of the big swing factors last night was Ruey,
Austin and DLO got badly outplayed by Aaron Gordon, Michael
Porter Junior and KCP. As a matter of fact, they
out rebounded just those three out rebounded the other three
twenty one to ten. So like a disaster on the glass,
which you could just tell from reading from watching the game, right,

(12:03):
But like there will be games in this series where
that swings more towards the lakers favor, and if Lebron
and ad also play well. I think they'll get a
win or two. I think this is going five or
six games, But I obviously would be absolutely stunned it
if Denver didn't win. But going into the offseason, like,
honestly like it will look appealing for Lebron to kind
of examine the landscape of the league. I just don't

(12:26):
think he'll leave unless it is a slam dunk home run,
big market, clear chance to win the title, like obvious
type of move, like something like to the Knicks or
to the seventy six ers or something along those lines.
If something like that were to materialize, I could see
him doing that. The problem is is, like Steph hasn't
played very well over the tail end of the season's

(12:47):
final twenty two games or so. He's been kind of
a shell of himself. And I think, honestly, the idea
of him jumping up to Golden State, I don't necessarily
think that improves his championship odds all that much, and
so I don't think he'll for that.

Speaker 4 (13:01):
But if they lose, let's say.

Speaker 3 (13:02):
They do get swept, I think it's a high probability
that he starts to kind of examine his landscape, because
here's the thing, Colin Lebron's playing super well. It's one
of the most underdiscussed things in the league right now.
In the final to his final twenty two games of
the season, so basically everything after the All Star Break,
he was the only guy in the league to average

(13:23):
at least twenty seven on at least fifty percent from
the field and at least forty percent from three. He
averaged twenty eight points eight rebounds in tennisis on fifty
eight percent from the field and forty five percent from three.
They were great when he was on the floor and
got blitzed when he was off. I said this on
my show the other day the other day, and I
believe it. Post All Star break, Luca and Jokich are

(13:46):
the only two guys playing better.

Speaker 4 (13:47):
Than Lebron right now. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (13:49):
I mean, he's playing at an insanely high level. So
if I'm him as a competitor, I'm like, if I
have no shot in this situation I have, I've got
good basketball left me. I've got to give this a
try somewhere else.

Speaker 1 (14:01):
No, I think it's I think that's a really good point.
You know, I was thinking about this, I wrote some
names down today. So I started watching the NBA in
nineteen seventy two. It was it was Wilt, it was
old Wilt with a headband, Jerry West, Gail Goodrich. I
think Don Ford was on the Lakers, Bill Walton and
the Blazers were good. The Sonics had those good teams

(14:21):
seventy two seventy three. It was the seventies where there
was no great team pre Magic, pre Bird, obviously pre
Jordan and Leuel Sender. Kareem seventy one won the title
with Milwaukee, and he was emerging as as as the
great player. Right, there's very few players that they sort
of break through a threshold. So Kareem was like created

(14:43):
the first time in league history, the unstoppable shot. We'd
had a lot of good players, nobody had an unstoppable,
unblockable shot. I think Wilt blocked Kareem a couple times,
but mostly nobody could touch it. And then there was
Magic who broke through. We never had a six eight
and a half point guard. Like it was just a
match yep in hell for everybody, it's like that, that's
not the way it works. Dave Cowens was a center

(15:06):
in the seventies. He was six eight, Magic hit a
finals guarded Caldwell Jones, He guarded a center and he
breaks through and then there's shack. Nobody with that power
ran the floor like that. It was a freight train.
We'd never seen anything quite like that then. Obviously Michael
Jordan was great, but we'd seen great athletic, dynamic wing players.
We'd seen that. He was just the best ever. Steph's

(15:28):
shooting range breaks through like transcends time. I think Lebron's
Swiss army knife ability to do everything at an absolutely
a level. I mean, Larry Bird couldn't defend like Lebron.
He wasn't the athlete of Lebron. Lebron was literally everything.
And then I watched Yokitchen. I'm like, I covered Sibonis
in Portland. This guy is like Sibonis in his athletic prime.

(15:53):
Because Sabonis could hit a three, not like this, could
pass not like this. I look at Jokich and I'm like,
you know what it is is that players used to
come into this league with potentially the great ones Jason
with one really great skill. They could shoot, they were
ball handlers, they were they were rebounders and defenders. They
weren't even Kareem. There's limitations on passing, there's living on

(16:16):
ball handling. Lebron's one of those. Oh hell he does
everything well. And jokicch I think, is taking it. He's
the first big in my life, like a true center,
a refrigerator wide center. What even defensively, he's not as
bad as everybody says Lucas become a He's actually become

(16:37):
a good defender. I watch Jokis and I'm like, is
he Europe's Lebron where you're like, oh god, he's an
A and everything A minus? Defensively, I just never seen
a player like this.

Speaker 3 (16:52):
Yeah, he's not gonna It's gonna be tough for him
to match the overall two way athlete, wrecking ball that
Lebron was when he was in his prime. Obviously, because
Lebron brought that transition element in that defensive element, like
he could peel off and guard Derek Roseen.

Speaker 1 (17:08):
Yeah, he's not gonna do that.

Speaker 4 (17:09):
No.

Speaker 3 (17:09):
Yeah, even back in twenty twenty, like he was the
one who's shut down the Nuggets in that run by
going on to Jamal Murray in that in that bubble run,
like Lebron has a certain defensive versatility that kind of
that brings it to another level. But Jokic, I actually
believe right now is a better offensive player than Lebron
ever was. And that's that's a really, really high bar

(17:31):
that I think he's eclipsing. And it sounds crazy to say,
but honestly the separating piece because I actually think they're
on similar levels as a playmaker. I think Lebron over
his career has been underrated as a playmaker, and Lebron
was like Jokic in the sense that he just always
made the right read and made you pay every single time.
The difference is is not Lebron, not Kobe, not MJ,

(17:52):
not even Steph. There's never been a guy in the
modern NBA era that has a shot that he can
consistently get to that's gonna go in two thirds at
the time.

Speaker 4 (18:03):
Like even MJ.

Speaker 3 (18:04):
It's like he's gonna get to that pull up jumper,
but it's about a fifty to fifty shot. Steph's gonna
get to that pull up three, but it's about a
forty sixty shot. Lebron is gonna try to bully his
way close to the basket and play but he doesn't
have anything in there that he's making two thirds of
the time. And you mentioned that he's refrigerator wide, and
that is the key because, like I know this vividly
well because when I was in junior college, I had
to play the power forward in center a lot, so

(18:26):
I was consistently battling with bigger players than me. I
was six six pretty strong. I was two hundred and
twenty five pounds, but like so, I had to strength advantage.
But most of the guys were towering three four inches
over me, And the way I bothered them was by
bothering their base. That's how you bother a taller player.
You get up underneath them. You disrupt their energy transfer
from the floor to the shot, and if you do that,

(18:47):
usually they'll miss more frequently than they normally do against
a player where they have a good bass. Yokich is
impossible to disrupt his base, like you just can't do it.
When he catches around the rim, there's guys shoving on him.
They're trying to knock him off balance, but he like
there was a late fadeaway. He hit over Lebron in
the fourth quarter of or the late third quarter of
that game last night where Lebron James a two hundred

(19:10):
and seventy pounds is like trying to bump Jokic and
he gets to a little turnaround over his right shoulder
and he goes straight up and down completely unimpeded. And
that's the problem, is like you can't actually get Jokic
to bother before his release, and when he gets to
his release, it's going in two thirds of the time.
So there's just no easy answer for him. I know

(19:30):
it's crazy, and I know it's heretical. In all these
it seems like recency biased, But like I don't know
about you, Colin, I can't remember a time in my
time watching basketball. I can't remember a player that was
this inevitable offensively. There's literally nothing you can do.

Speaker 1 (19:44):
Nothing, and if he doesn't get the shot, which is
basically his choosing, somebody else gets the shot. I mean,
the fact that you can put Porter in the corner
is a great three point. The other thing, it's a
perfect construct of a team. Gordon doesn't need plays to
sign for him and can give you twelve KCP, who
I didn't like at all seven years ago. I fall
in love with him. I just love him. Now, he's

(20:07):
just the constant, you know, he's just one of those
players that he'll never be given his just due because
he tends to be the fourth or fifth best player
on a good team, the Bubble Laker team or this
team Ice in his veins, fourth quarter big shots. He
just doesn't care. There's a reason he keeps playing on
winning teams. He hits a lot of big shots. So
the construct of the team, Jokic, I think the word

(20:29):
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So I want to talk about the Sun's Minnesota. So
you know, it's interesting if we tend to give basketball

(21:55):
players a little bit of a pass. So you know,
in baseball there's the five tool player term. You know,
Barry Bonds could hit Ron Steele, you know everything defend.
And in football, we like our quarterbacks. You really get
penalized Jared Goff, he's not mobile, right, not Super Bowls.

(22:15):
So we like our quarterbacks and our baseball players to
have multiple tools. And I'm watching Kevin Durant and I'm
sitting there and I'm like, and I understand scoring seventy
five percent of the game. Defense is twenty five percent.
But he's not a big assist guy. He's a willing defender,
not usually a great defender. It's not a big rebound guy.
He is a great get a bucket guy, but he

(22:37):
doesn't want to be a leader, you know. And I'm
watching that series and Minnesota is pushing Phoenix all over
the floor. And at no time Lebron in his prime
or out of it, what it's set timeout, he'd go
to the huddle. He would call out guys. D Wade
would do that. A lot of the great players in
the league really lead Steph cree Lean into Draymond Green's

(22:59):
not even he is a great player, but Draymond will
call you out. And I'm watching him and I'm like,
this is just a bad two and a half hours
of effort. This is an awful effort. They're being pushed
all over the floor. Aunt Edwards has taken over the game.
Dynamic player, but I wonder sometimes with KD. You know,
he's a wanderer. When he left Golden State, I made
the argument, I said, if Mahomes left the Chiefs and

(23:21):
Andy Reid for the Jets, we crush him. We're like,
are you out of your mind? He went with Kyrie
and We're like, well, you know, he's got a different personality.
He left the Warriors, suck it up, get along with Draymon,
And I watched and I thought, do we give Kad
a pass? Because in a sport that is very much artistry.
He is one of the great shot makers of my life.

(23:44):
But I want more from him. I watched that game
and I'm like, you have to get physical. I want
more from you here than twenty seven points which I
get every night from you. Am I being too harsh
or is any of this rings somewhat true?

Speaker 3 (23:58):
I think it's the reality of Kadi's personality in the
sense that, like, I think Kadi loves basketball and I
don't think he gives a shit about what we think.

Speaker 4 (24:07):
He should be.

Speaker 3 (24:08):
And what I mean by that is like, like, for instance,
when he went to the Warriors, that move is a
very clear demonstration he saw all of this obvious backlash
that was going to be there, but in the middle
of it, he saw, but hey, playing basketball Steph Curry
might be a lot of fun, you know, and like
he might enjoy playing in a really good, smart basketball system.

(24:29):
That's what he saw. That's what he targeted and he
went there. Now it went south because of a lot
of different things while he was there. But I think, honestly,
basketball just kind of determines most of it his decision makings,
even when it comes down to leadership. And Kevin Durant
has said this on Twitter before, but like he doesn't
necessarily view leadership as like something that you say to
people or that you're very boisterous and visible doing. He's

(24:53):
very much a lead by example guy, and honestly, like
he's got an opportunity here in this series because he's
got the best capability reversing the trend of this series.
What happened in that that game was what's happened to
Phoenix a bunch this year is sometimes they get punched
in the mouth in a physical game and they wilt.
We talked about this early the last time we really
did show Yeah, oh yeah. And there's a separate conversation

(25:15):
we could have about how like this the game is
getting super physical and like teams like Minnesota are benefiting
from it, right, like teams like the Clippers are benefiting
from teams like the Knicks. Like it's actually playing into
the strength of the more physically minded teams. But one
of the issues is the different than what they did
in their last regular season matchup, they put ant on
KD in the regular season matchup, and they put Jade

(25:37):
McDaniels on Devin Booker. This time they move Aunt over
to Bradley Beal and so KD had Carl Towns on
him and to your point, thirty one points, super efficient,
eleven for seventeen. But the Sun's offense was terrible in
that entire game. And the main thing that he can
do to turn that around, and again it's it's less
about him barking at people and yelling. It's about him

(25:58):
in terms of his approach. He needs to focus on
Kat as an entry point to get the defense and
rotation so that they can play more team basketball. That game,
they had assists on fewer than half of their made
field goals. That team has been good post deadline because
they've been getting assists on sixty six percent of their

(26:18):
made field goals post deadline. They look good when they're
driving and kicking and playing for each other. And when
you have the three star build, if you play your turn,
my turn, it's diminishing returns and you don't benefit from
the of all the talent when you play for each other.
And now Devin Booker and Bradley Beal and Kevin Durant
are attacking closeouts. That's when you have the force multiplier

(26:41):
element of having all of those stars together. And so
what I want to see KD do is, yes, help
set the tone physically, that's going to be something they
all have to do. But I think he needs to
embrace that Carl Towns matchup as an opportunity to beat
him off the dribble and be a playmaker, because if
he does, I think that'll loosen things up for the Suns.
But again, like I think you've seen enough from Katie
over the last few years that he didn't really care

(27:02):
what we think about him.

Speaker 1 (27:04):
He doesn't. I just yeah, it was just it was
just such a weak effort and it was just it
never got course corrected. It was just this is just
not going to be our game. And is the you know,
even the Mavericks made a run against the Clippers, and
I want to pivot to that one. I mean, it
was they had an awful first half and it was basically,
I mean, who's their third best player, PJ Washington? It
was Kyrie and Doncic and that's kind of their offense.

(27:26):
And and so again, you you I think the NBA
you used to. We always used to talk about tandems.
But I do think you have to have really high
end third players. I mean, Jesus is is KCP the
fifth best Nugget. That's a really good fifth player. Derek
White is your fifth best Celtic. That's a really good
NBA player. Wa PJ. Washington is your third best player.

(27:48):
He's about a twelve thirteen point a game gay, not
a bad player at all. Probably should be your fourth
or fifth if he's a third. And I'm just I'm
throwing it out there as a guy, I think kind
of as a you know, thirteen points a game. But
it was interesting. So teams did well. Older teams tended
to do well, the Lakers, notwithstanding, who had a very
very good road first quarter. But as I watched the

(28:10):
Clippers just take it to them again, I noticed the
same thing Suns, te Wolves, Clippers, more physical Clippers in
the paint. And I was wondering this in a regular
season with diminishing returns. That is largely the Milwaukee Bucks
social team today. It's like, hey, the part of the
year that nobody cares about is over.

Speaker 4 (28:29):
That's the team.

Speaker 1 (28:30):
So these road teams, who you know, they haven't played
a lot of intense basketball, go on the road, home
playoff game number one, crowds into it, national TV games,
and outside of the Lakers, I felt like I watched
a lot of road teams. They were engulfed. They just
weren't ready to play. So a home team, they come

(28:52):
off this you know, lais ferret regular season, but they
are the crowd is jet fuel. You know, Milwaukee out
and the crowd's on fire. It's national TV. They don't
get on national TV, and they just bring a ton
of energy. Indiana's young, you know, you're kind of the
regular season as a less of a pulse. But that
was kind of my takeaway on Dallas and the Clippers.

(29:13):
It was just like home team, a lot of energy,
super physical, old guys, a lot of pride, and Dallas
just wasn't quite ready to play. Is that fair?

Speaker 4 (29:22):
One hundred percent agree.

Speaker 3 (29:23):
I did a little instant reaction to that on my
channel earlier, and that was what I led with, is
that Dallas just didn't really seem ready. I thought you
could tell. The very first possession from both teams was
the dead giveaway. First Mavericks offensive possession, Luca dribbles around
on the perimeter, works through two switches and takes a
step back three. The Clippers get a rebound run out
the other way. On the other end, James hard and
ball screen comes screaming downhill, kick out to Paul George.

(29:46):
He misses the three, but Kyrie Irving just is standing
in the corner and Terrence Man just sprints right by him,
grabs the offensive rebound, kicks out to a mere Coffee
at the top of the key, and he hits a three,
And you're like, whoa, Like, It's just it's like going
from chill mode to a blender on the opposite side
of the It's crazy the difference that it makes. And
I mean, honestly, like, I think that also kind of
plays into what we were talking about earlier with physicality,

(30:07):
as the league has allowed more physicality and defenses have
been given more power. Yeah, the home teams that are
feeding off of that are benefiting from it. I think
the athleticism helps as well. And I think, honestly, experience
helps a certain amount. I thought the Pacers game in particular. Yeah, Like,
the Pacers are the third most efficient jump shooting team
in the league according to Synergy, and the Bucks allow
the fifth most jump shot attempts in the league perc Entergy.

(30:29):
That should be a matchup that favors Indiana at one point.

Speaker 4 (30:33):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (30:34):
Yeah, like they couldn't make anything because they're all nerved
up in there, you know. And like one of the
other things too, is in a super physical environment, guess
what jump shots are really hard to make? Like that's
that's kind of like just the reality of that situation.
But you know, as far as the Mavericks Clippers game goes,
this is the real story there, and I think this
is gonna be an issue that the MAVs are gonna

(30:54):
have to deal with. They every single time down the
floor brought Luka Doncic, got him switched on to James
Harden or Paul George and attacked him every single time.
It was crazy. Like now, tylu is famous for this,
and I've seen this personally as a Lakers fan, as
he every single time we play the Clippers. It's like,
attack Austin Reeves, attack Austinariess, attack Austinaries, like that's what

(31:15):
they do.

Speaker 4 (31:16):
Tylu Is.

Speaker 3 (31:17):
Like tylu is like one of my favorite coaches in
the league because he kind of has a different approach
than some of the more you know, super fancy schematic coaches.
He's very much like a We're a matchup attacking team.
That's what our roster is. We have a bunch of
guys who can attack matchups. So we're gonna pick on
your weakest link every single time down the floor. And
literally it was like he found out early. It's like, oh,
gafferd can't guard Zubach. Let's just post him up every

(31:39):
single time until they take him out of the game.
They took Gafford out with like eight and a half
minutes left in the first quarter because Zubach scored on
him three consecutive times in the post. It's like, okay,
now we're going after Luca. And they started just attacking
Luca and that's how James Harden got going. He hit
three buckets in a row on Luca. Then he got
in a rhythm and then he started hitting the tougher shots.
Paul George started attacking him. Like the real issue there

(32:01):
is like Luca during the regular season can kind of
float through, but he's gonna have to find a way
to counter that. There's an easy schematic counter. They need
to have Luca Hedge in recover. We won't get into it,
but it's a schematic counter. They get you to protect
to Luca in that situation. But Luca's gonna have to
embrace that defensive responsibility because the Clippers will not stop
going at him in this series.

Speaker 1 (32:20):
Well, I mean, you know, the Clippers are interesting sometimes.
You know, we have questions about Kawhi. I never questioned Tylu.
I love Paul George, but there's a lot of dudes here.
I mean, at his best, Westbrook off the bench, Harden,
Teror's Man, Zubac, Kawhi, Paul George, Like, let's not kid
ourselves here. It's one of the best rosters in the league.
There's really good players. They have size, they have experience.

(32:41):
Now it's a lot of odd players, animatic players like
Harden and Rush in the postseason, Kawhi, Leonard's like non verbal.
It's an odd roster. But if you start stacking up
zero to seven, you don't get to Westbrook at six
and seven very much. In the NBA, Like again, Dallas's
third best players arguably PJ. Washington, good player. I'm not
knocking a nice player. Kentucky kid, really nice player, I

(33:04):
think Kentucky. But it's like Okay, you start, you start going,
Paul George is your third best, Like Paul's really really easy,
you know, seven, eight time All Star whatever he is.
So as I watched that series, I'm like, you know,
last year I bought another Clippers hard and I just
went it was a facial. I really bought into him.
But they hadn't played a lot together. It was weird.

(33:25):
I don't know.

Speaker 3 (33:25):
I have a quick follow up Colin on the on
the the MAVs. When are we going to have a
conversation about the I have a couple of stars and
then a bunch of specialists because that was literally what
Houston was with Chris Paul and James Harden and it
had a certain ceiling. Oh now we're seeing seeing it
with no Kyrie and Luca where it's like it's like
the ball, like you can literally see Kleeba like catch

(33:47):
on the wing and be like am I supposed to
shoot it?

Speaker 4 (33:50):
Like?

Speaker 1 (33:50):
You know?

Speaker 3 (33:51):
And and it's one of those things where I think,
I think, if Dallas does lose this series, it's time
to start having a conversation about the like the specialist
in this super athletic, spread out speed based game, you've
got to have five guys who can play offense. And
that's what Denver has. Yeah, Denver has five guys that

(34:12):
could play offense. Golden State had five guys that could
play offense. Like that, to me is a really interesting
kind of like subplot here is they the Clippers just
got the ball out of Kyrie and Luca's hands and
those other guys couldn't score well.

Speaker 1 (34:24):
And you know, Jason, this is why it's so important.
This is why I always drag mellow. If you don't defend,
then I am forced to put people on the floor
that are excellent defenders and are limited. So Kyrie doesn't defend.
Luca's better at defending, but you're forcing me now to
acquire people to protect you. The greatness of the Warriors

(34:46):
was Draymond was a great defender, but a catalyst offensively.
And Clay was a great defender, but the best cat
and shoot guy, catch and shoot guy maybe a decade.
So they they're guys that were great defensively where you
had to protect staff, you didn't have a lot of size.
They ended up being really valuable offensive pieces. And by
the way, that's rare. You know, if Ben Wallace could

(35:08):
have shot a three, he would have been, you know,
an all time player instead of twelve a game. He's
twenty two. So it's hard to find those guys. But
I find that when you have elite offensive players. That's
why the pairing of Luca and Kyrie is a bit problematic. Oh,
I've got to get a rim protector. Well, he can't score. Well,
they still have to have it, and you know that's

(35:28):
It's one of the reasons I do think the Lakers
have a lot of promise because Reeves, d lo lebron
Ad they can all score, right, so you can you
can and it does matter. I think I feel like
the Mads are lobsided. It's almost like when Tennessee had
Ryan Tannehill, like, we're gonna have to like be a
little lobsided on the run. We've got a ceiling at quarterback.

(35:50):
They ended up as a number one seed one year.
But when they got to the playoffs and you play
better teams and better coaches, they expose it. And so
I think what the Clippers did. They exposed the Maverick said,
you've got two guys on the floor, they're just not
offensive players. But if you don't have them, Kyrie is
not even accountable sometimes defensively. So I think it's that's
the downside to having highly offensive players. Most great offensive

(36:16):
players do commit in their prime years. They get tired
of defense or worn down, but they commit to it,
for like Kobe, for an eight to nine year period
and then at the beginning you're not very good. At
the end, you're not very good. But I felt like
watching Dallas it's they're a little obsided.

Speaker 3 (36:32):
Mike Malone has said before, specialists can't play in the playoffs.
It's it's been something that like, Okay, they're the easiest
guys to target in various ways. And it's interesting because PJ.
Washington and Maxi Kaliba together in the front court at
the four or five has been my favorite Dallas look
since the trade deadline. I actually like it when they
go no center. They're more athletic, they have more ability

(36:54):
to fly around in rotation. But to your point, that
ended up being a major offensive issue in this particular
matchup today, And like PJ. Washington, I agree with you.
I think he's probably their third best player, and he
has more offensive pop in general, but he's like a
low thirties catch and shoot guy, so generally speaking, as

(37:14):
long as you can kind of shade the floor in
a certain way to where he's catching on the perimeter,
you can close out short and you have a better
chance to contain that and it and like essentially, like
they're actually the opposite of the Suns in the sense
that like the Sons were like, no, we're gonna have
really good off ball offensive talent, and they have that.
So Minnesota's like, Okay, we're just gonna stay home off

(37:36):
the ball and make Kevin Durant and Devin Booker and
Bradley Beale play one on one and two on two
in ball screens and make them make tough shots over
our elite perimeter defenders. And Rudy Gobert the Clippers are, like,
the MAVs are the exact opposite. They don't have great
off ball offensive talent, but they've got good defenders in
their off ball players. So the Clippers are like, We're

(37:57):
just gonna throw the kitchen sink at Luca and Kyrie
and make these guys score. And so what you're seeing
is the problem with both because the Suns can't contend
physically in a lot of certain matchups in the MAVs
can't score against these certain types of matchups, and so
it's it's kind of just an interesting conversation about team building,
Like you need, like Aaron Gordon's an interesting example. Aaron
Gordon is a Swiss army knife in his own way. Yeah,

(38:20):
he can attack mismatches in the post. He can guard
Lebron James, Jimmy Butler, Kevin Durant, those guys credibly, But
at the same time, he's like a really functional piece
in their five out offense. So like he's a super
versatile basketball player, but if you dive into it, you're like,
he's a if he jumps shooter, he's not the most
efficient guy in this spot, blah.

Speaker 4 (38:38):
Blah blah blah.

Speaker 3 (38:39):
Like but it's like, because his specific skill set kind
of fits into what Denver needs to do super valuable
And so I think it's just an interesting conversation about
team buildings well.

Speaker 1 (38:49):
And what's interesting with him as much like Draymon, you
don't have to create offense for Draymon, he sort of
creates his own rebounding screening With Gordon, you wouldn't want
another shooter KCP shoots Murray, shoot Porter from the corner,
shoot Jokic. I don't need to design more plays. I
don't need that. He's a perfect player. When you had
Steph Clan Durant, I don't need another guy that have

(39:09):
to dial up shots to Draymond will give me seven,
thirteen rebounds, eleven assists. The great teams all have that
guy like he'll give you eleven. But he's totally Rodman
with the Bulls, totally prideful in being the tough guy,
the bouncher at the bar, the ugly player, the on
the floor guy, and takes incredible pride in it. And

(39:31):
I think that's Gordon. So I want to go, let's
finish with this Nicks sixers, So I picked this is
just a big mistake. I think the Knicks essentially are
a one man offense and not even a highly functional offense.
If Jalen Brunson's not in, They're like watching Villanova. The
margins are tight, they're not explosive offensively, but they play
good defense. They give you great effort. So my take

(39:52):
on the Knicks coming into the playoffs was because of Thibodeau.
Their effort in the regular season is so strong. Seventy
five of the eighty two games they win games on
effort because in the regular season, I mean, you're resting players.
Guys don't give you that. The older teams, the Milwaukee's,
they're nights. Milwaukee just didn't you show up to play
New York Alhay shows up to play. You get to
the playoffs, everybody's efforts high. But I'm watching that game

(40:15):
and there's about seven minutes left, and I'm like, yeah,
I think Philadelphia's got more good players. I mean, if
you have mb and Maxie have two stars, I can
get a jumper from Buddy Healed. I've got, but toom
I've got, you know, Tobias Harris. And I look at
the Knicks and I'm like, they really are Villanova. I'm like,
they have a self belief, They defend on every possession.

(40:37):
They have guys that could finish with nine points. They
all come at the right time, and I think in
the East that's good enough. In the West it would
get flushed out. But I watched the Knicks and I'm like,
I just keep doubting them. I love Brunson, but I'm like,
I mean, they got to have Julius Randall, they got
to have nineteen points. What am I supposed to make

(40:57):
of the Knicks. I mean that's supposed to beat Now.
Some of it could just be you know, Knicks energy
the garden. But I watched that, I'm like, I can
keep banging on Philadelphia. Philadelphia's got good players. There are
a lot of good players here.

Speaker 4 (41:13):
What is it?

Speaker 1 (41:13):
What's the Knicks magic? Analytically? What is the data say
their magic is?

Speaker 3 (41:18):
So first of all, like I was in the same
camp as you coming into this series. I actually sat
down for my film session and going like, I'm gonna
pick the Knicks today, And then I started watching the film.

Speaker 4 (41:27):
I'm like, oh, Phillies are really good.

Speaker 3 (41:29):
I'm like, okay, Like they have a lot of really
good players, and I'm like I started to think, like
they're gonna really be able to throw the kitchen sink
at Brunson. I think this is gonna be a half
court mismatch. So I ended up picking the Sixers. And
for the record, like about one in four times a
team loses Game one and comes back to win the series.
So there will be probably two teams in this first
round who lost Game one but come back to win.

(41:51):
Last year happened twice in the first round as well.
The Warriors lost in Sacramento Game one, came back and
won the series. The Sun's lost of the Clippers came
back and won the series. So like it does happen,
and this script might get flipped, but the dynamic was
actually crazy how much the Knicks dominated this game in
the margin. So here's some this is this stat is amazing.
Colin the half court offensive rating, which means just half

(42:13):
court possessions.

Speaker 4 (42:14):
Yeah, points per one hundred.

Speaker 3 (42:16):
Possessions, the Sixers had a ninety nine offensive rating in
the half court against the Knicks. In that game, the
Knicks had a seventy seven offensive rating, so they dominated
the half court battle by twenty two points per one
hundred possessions. That is like a complete and total outclassing.
But the Knicks one, and here's why, in second chance
points and in fast break points they won fifty three

(42:38):
to nineteen. For fifty three to nineteen. Yeah, they absolutely
bludgeoned them on the offensive glass and bludgeoned them in transition.
So like the Sixers have a simple pathway here. Yeah,
if you can, if you can keep up with the
dirty work, you'll probably win. You have more skill in
the half court. You saw Tyrese Maxi dicing them up

(43:00):
in that third quarter.

Speaker 1 (43:01):
They got good shots.

Speaker 4 (43:02):
They got really good shots.

Speaker 3 (43:04):
Now, the one thing I will say as a counter
to that, there was one little thing that kind of
like stood out to me in that fourth quarter run.
Mitchell Robinson might be able to guard Embiid like he
did a pretty good job on him. And there's this
thing that happens sometimes. It's so funny because I use
this example on my show. Do you remember Lebron? Like
Lebron would just run rough shot through the entire league

(43:25):
and no one could guard him. But then like he'd
run into like Andre Gudala or like roy or Kawhi Leonard,
he'd run into like a random guy that could kind
of match up with him physically, and then it would
make Lebron work harder. And honestly, that was when you'd
see the best of Lebron is when like it's not
easy and he'd still find a way, right. And like

(43:45):
we even see that sometimes with Jokic. It's like you
watch him go up against Embiid and it's like, WHOA,
Embiid's big enough to like kind of hang with him, right,
and it makes things difficult. Mitchell Robinson has the unique
ability to give em bead a little bit of space
but also close the gap and contest. And so the
one thing if I'm a Knicks fan, the one thing
where I'm like, Okay, we got dominated in the half court.
Maybe the Sixers can turn this around. The one thing

(44:07):
I'm clinging to is what if Mitchell Robinson gives and
be just a bad series, because then this could get
ugly because Tyre Smax he had some trouble with Deuce
McBride too. There he could kind of match it with
him with his quickness. And so I think the Knicks
have some ability to close that gap in the half
court offense, but the Sixers have to close that gap

(44:28):
in the margins or they're just going to get run
out of this series.

Speaker 1 (44:36):
Trying to think of a historic comp to mb So.
People have said Shack is a player, but Shack has
such great postseason success almost universally in my life. The
word you used earlier on Jokic was perfect inevitable. A
dominant big in this league usually wins, and we're talking
about one of the five most talented bigs I've probably
ever seen. I mean, he does. He had a shot

(44:57):
and beat had a shot against the Knicks. I'm not
even there may have been an early whistle where he
turned his body sideways, he threw it off the glass,
and I was like, the hell was that? Who? It
doesn't even look like it was just a it's a
move that Dame would make. It was like, you're like,
seven to two, you can't do that. But in the
weaker Eastern Conference, it's just inexcusable. You've got to win

(45:19):
a second series. I mean, the first series is against
the dog, usually now the Knicks or no dog, but
there is it. I wonder what the ball movement is
when embiid is in, because I do feel there are
times when it slows down a little use by the way,
you saw this with Julius Randalls sometimes in the Knicks,
like he's out, the ball moves sometimes with Bigs that

(45:40):
by the way, no Joannis today with Milwaukee, the ball's moving,
they're you know, Dame's controlling it. The tempo is better.
I just if he loses to the Knicks, now, what
do we say. I know he's great, but it's like
if you're a great quarterback in the weaker conference, I
gotta have some playoff wins. You know, you got to
give me some of those. It'd be one thing if

(46:01):
you're facing Mahomes and Josh Allen and Lamar in their prime.
If you're facing the NFC guys, I need some do
Wu's Matt Stafford gets a super Bowl. He's better than
that division. I get that conference. I don't know where
I land on Embiid. Yeah, I know he's talented, but
he needs to win more in April and May. I'm
just he does. How do you land historically with Embiid?

Speaker 3 (46:22):
Of course he does like he has to win. There's
no question. I've seen things on Twitter like when he
went down. There's this funny moment when he went down
in that second quarter where like everyone was like, the
guy is falling. It's like the NBA is responsible for
these guys getting hurt. I'm like, no, this is just
a flukey play. Like that's just everyone Everyone relax. Yeah,
everyone relaxed for a second. But like, one of the
things that happens is Embiid consistently gets to the postseason.

(46:44):
Usually his jump shot falls apart, he starts turning the
basketball over a ton in his offensive effectiveness craters, and
every single year, the Embiid fans will be like he
was hurt and they're not wrong. Like you go back,
you go back. Last year he was dealing with a
balky knee. What was it two years ago when he
had the broken face on the Toronto the Flukey play

(47:06):
at the end of the Toronto series. I think og
and Andobi hit him with an elbow in the face
and he really struggled. And this year he has the
same excuse, right, Like he came back from a meniscus
injury and clearly it's bothering him. I mean he left
the game in the second quarter last night, so like,
obviously he's having issues, right, But the bottom line is,
at a certain point, if a guy gets to the
postseason every year and it's hurt every year, you have
to kind of bring that into the calculus. It's like

(47:27):
with Kawhi, I vividly remember you and I sitting down
going like, man, that was crazy.

Speaker 4 (47:32):
Kawhi.

Speaker 3 (47:32):
The last two playoff runs broke down in the middle
of the playoff run. What if that happens again, And
you know, Clippers fans will be like, well, you can't
really plan on that, but here we are again, right,
and Kawhi's not playing, So like, at a certain point, that's.

Speaker 4 (47:42):
Like part of the calculus with Kawhi Cool.

Speaker 3 (47:45):
You know, you can't put him in the top five
of playoff players if his body can't hold up for
a playoff run.

Speaker 4 (47:50):
And that's the thing.

Speaker 3 (47:51):
I one hundred percent agree that Embiid has this otherworldly potential.
And there's a version of his story where at some
point in the next couple of years he gets to
the postseason, healthy, runs rough shot over everybody and gets
crowned the best player in the world and gets a trophy.
But what have we seen in the last few years
to show that he can actually survive for playoff rounds,
let around, let alone, you know, kind of thrive in

(48:13):
that environment. And so at the end of the day,
like I feel bad for him because I think a
lot of it is just kind of he's a giant
human and there's a certain kind of risk factor that
comes along with that, and I don't want to blame
him necessarily, But regardless of what the external circumstances are,
the on court product hasn't been enough. Now, one thing
I'll say, I was really impressed in how he played

(48:34):
last night while he was on the floor against a
really tough, physical New York Knicks team. But again, like
we talked about with like Igudala and Kawhi, if Mitchell
Robinson presents a challenge for him, he has to find
a way to solve that puzzle. Why because the other
great players found a way to solve that puzzle when
they ran into it in the postseason.

Speaker 1 (48:51):
So, you know, it's interesting. Through the years, there's been
a sense I got into this email discussion with Mark
Cuban once that very few players really. I think we
have this sense that in the NBA, lots of players
move the ratings. Hell. The NBA put Jannis when he
was the best player in the league four years ago
on noon NBA TV playoff games, like the league was

(49:13):
telling you, it's not moving the needle. A lot of
centers don't move the needle. Shack did because some of
that was just personality in the Lakers Brandon Kobe. But
most centers don't move the needle. They don't play a dynamic, quick,
twitchy game. It's fun. Derek Rose to me in Chicago, Oh, okay,
the Bulls. You know there are certain players ant's great,
but it's Minnesota. But I was watching the NIXT game

(49:34):
and I thought to myself. We always talk about market
size doesn't matter in the NBA because players can get
rich everywhere. I don't deny that. But games in the
Garden are different. They are just different. They just look different.
And I'm watching that game and I'm seeing the celebrities
and I'm like, I stayed on that game and I

(49:54):
was like, it had juice. I'm sitting there and thinking,
this is great television. It's like watching the football game
Michigan Big House, Jason. It feels bigger than an Arizona
Wildcat game. It just feels bigger. And I'm watching the
Knicks and I'm like, boy, the league could really use
Celtics Knicks. And I don't think Jalen Brunson's I think

(50:15):
they need another star. But you know, there's been this
sort of malaise and the regular season and people talking
about ratings, and the NBA is fine, it's content, it's
gonna do fine. It's more international, it's still great. The
players have never been better. But I'm watching the Knicks
and I'm like, they're incredibly likable because they play their
ass off. They get everything out of every player. Brunson's

(50:37):
a great story. It's New York it's the Guard and
the fans are so starved they might as well have
a ticker tape parade. After they won, the fans were
going crazy out in the street, and I really did.
I was watching it, Jason, and I thought, I've been
in TV for twenty some years, and I'm like, this
is great television. This is completely magnetic television. And I'm
sorry if that game's in Charlotte, it doesn't feel like that.

(50:58):
I mean, how did when I want that? I felt,
Oh my god, this feels like a conference finals. This
is what New York and the Garden are doing to
this sport. That's what I felt.

Speaker 4 (51:06):
It was the best game yesterday.

Speaker 3 (51:07):
Yes, and like the way that the roof blew off
those that place after those late Josh Hart, oh my god,
which which felt like ten pointers when they went in.
But that's that's extended my entire life. I remember, even
just as a kid, being an NBA fan, like it
was when Kobe went to Madison Square Garden, it was
you dropped everything and you watched. When Lebron went to

(51:28):
Madison Square Garden, you dropped everything and you watched. And
so to watch them play meaningful basketball, and I don't
even think the Knicks fans are aware yet that this
is just the beginning. Like I think this is the
beginning of a long era of really good Knicks basketball.
We've talked about it before. I think they're really well
positioned for a move this offseason. I I one hundred
percent agree there was that that game. It was It

(51:51):
was easily the most magnetic and entertaining game of the
night yesterday. I actually have a follow up question, con
I saw a report yesterday that the the talks have
stalled out, the TV talks for the NBA with Turner
and with Disney. What did you make of that?

Speaker 1 (52:07):
Well, you know, again, first of all, my you know
some of this is anecdotal. So my kids love going
to NBA games. I love going to NBA games. I've
been to four this year, and so I go to
more NBA games than any games. I think the product
when you're in the arena is fantastic and fun. I

(52:27):
hate load management, and I do think that's hurt the league.
I think Adam Silver, I don't think David Stern would
tolerate it. I think the fines would be levied and
much and I think they were years ago, the late
David Stern, So I do think there are some social issues.
I think the load management's turned a lot of people off.
The game is getting like baseball and hockey. It's very
international now, so it's just harder to follow a guy

(52:50):
if you don't. You know, he's in Lithuania instead of Duke.
The reason I know Zion he played at Duke. He
blew up a shoe at Duke, and so, you know,
there's part of it is we're this is society is
we're all distracted now. I mean our phone, my usage rate.
I was on the phone during the NBA. I'm on
my phone constantly right Like, my usage rate goes up
at four hundred percent during the NBA playoffs. So we're distracted.

(53:12):
So we don't follow the path and the journey of players.
You do, you're an expert at it, but most people don't.
So we like this. I watch a guy at Ohio
State for three years, you're in Michigan. He's Microwavable. He
goes to my Texans. I know who he is. I
has in Jersey. I have an avisceral connection with him.
In the NBA, increasingly the guys don't play college and
so it's like Ugh and they go to bad teams

(53:33):
at the top of the drafts. You don't see him
for three years until they get into the playoffs. Wemby
because he's uniquely historically transcendent. We talked about him. So
I think executives look at this and they say to themselves,
the players are telling us the regular season doesn't matter.
The league by not handing out punitive action, is telling
us the regular season doesn't matter. Am I paying nine

(53:55):
billion for playoff games? Like, I'm not interested? And I
think Fox don't for Fox or the Murdocks. But I
do think people at our company have looked at baseball
and they're like, we love the playoffs, but the one
hundred and sixty two Braves Brewers or whatever, like, it's
hard to get people interested. So in a distracted society
where we're on our phones right long, regular season sports

(54:18):
are dying. And so NFL's not urgency, World Cup's not
every four years, Olympics aren't March madness, men and women aren't.
College football isn't UFC, isn't baseball hockey, NBA regular seasons
on television are just not dynamic. And these leagues, the NBA,
the I mean I mean, we'll have some great series here.

(54:40):
These first round series are going to be really good.
NICK sixers is going to feel like a big series
because Philly and New York are just they jump off
the television. My takeaway is league send messages to networks,
and the messages the regular season doesn't matter much, and
I run Fox or ESPN or TNT. Okay, then let's

(55:04):
have two packages. You know, I'll pay for the playoffs.
I don't want the regular season, and so I think
that's where that's where you know the NFL and I
think March madness. It's like, well, I have to watch
these games. These are all sudden death, you know, So
what do I make of it? I make of it.
The product's good, but the league is sending a message
to the networks and it's come back to bite them

(55:24):
in the ass, which is no load management. I've always
felt the league should have about sixty games. The first
round should be three games, the rest of the way
should be five until the finals is seven. There's no urgency.
I mean, there's just literally no urgency in these games.
It's like, I watch it because I love the NBA.
The NBA will get its money, but you have to

(55:48):
be honest about this. The stuff that's working is all
creating urgency. I mean, the quality of men's basketball in
the NCAA now is awful, Jason. It's the actual quality play. Yeah,
but the numbers were fantastic. So now women's basketball is
much better today than twenty years ago. So the quality

(56:09):
there is excellent. In Caitlin Clark story. But I think baseball,
I mean, hey, have you heard about I mean, like
Apple doesn't want part of the NBC and Apple are
both unhappy with their baseball packages. Wow, Sunday Night Baseball.
They want one hundred and forty million. Nobody wants to
pay that. Fox would take it for forty million. We're
not paying one hundred and forty million. So I think
I think baseball, hockey, and basketball. I think you have

(56:32):
to look in the mirror as owners. You've never been richer.
It's the best place in the world to own any
investment in the world is English Premier League teams or
American sports teams. That's where the richest people have their money.
EPL teams only go up and American sports teams mostly
go up. I think you have to scale back the
number of games you have to demand starters play. I

(56:52):
think you have to have more urgent. I think what
you have in the NBAG you have a two and
a half month playoff, it should be a month and
shorten the season. Now you say, the players will say, well,
we won't make as much money. If everybody got ten
percent less, you'd be fine. If Lebron could play fifteen
less games a year, he'd be fine with less. Most
players would be. But I think it's a reality of

(57:14):
what's happening, the distraction, the fragmentation. You cannot ask people
to sit through these long hockey Baseball NBA regular seasons,
especially when the players don't seem that driven by it.
That's my take, and I love the league.

Speaker 3 (57:28):
Yeah, you know, you and I had a debate. It
was a couple months ago, but we were talking about
the difference between the NFL and how the NFL has
been encroaching on their territory and what they're doing like
three Wednesday Christmas games this year, right, So, like in
one of the counterpoints I made to you is like,
I don't really see the league as the NBA is
even on the same footing as the NFL, because I

(57:48):
view the NFL as an urgency sport, and I view
the NBA as an inventory sport.

Speaker 4 (57:52):
Yeah, well, the NBA has actually.

Speaker 3 (57:53):
Leaned more and more into inventory. It's like, here is
an in season tournament, here is a play in turn.
They just expanded the first round of the playoffs from
five to seven games, what like twenty years ago or
whatever it was that they did, so like they've done
nothing but ad inventory. And while while total revenue has
gone up, I think the focused kind of desire surrounding

(58:17):
the NBA regular season is less. And to your point, like,
I've always been a big believer in shortening the regular
season because I think if you could get it down
to three games a week in just a guaranteed two
days off every single week in a row somewhere in
there for the older guys, I think you just have
better player participation in general, not to mention the increased
urgencies surrounding the games. And what bothers me about it

(58:37):
is why can't you view the in season tournament and
the play in tournament as the revenue drivers to make
up for lost revenue in a shortened season. And if
you did shorten the season, I don't I think you'd
see an initial drop in revenue.

Speaker 4 (58:51):
But I think in the big.

Speaker 3 (58:52):
Picture, as there's more star participation in roughly twenty percent
additional urgency by dropping twenty percent of the game games,
I think you will see in the big picture and
increased value in the regular season package. But nie hundred
percent agree with you in the sense that, like, how
could you expect of all the things that the NBA
provides between between gambling, between highlights, between the playoffs, between

(59:14):
the end season, tournament, playing tournament. Summer League is a
huge deal every year ago out there. I'm amazed by
the event that Summer League is. Wait till you see
what this Team USA thing is is going to be
like in Vegas. Like, all of that is doing great,
but the regular season itself is dipping further and further
down the food chain, and that they do need to
put more attention in that direction.

Speaker 4 (59:34):
Nine hundred percent agreecause.

Speaker 1 (59:36):
Also the international participation now is up, They're more skilled,
they're dominating the MVP. I got no problem with it.
I've never seen players as good as Wemby and Jokic,
but it is harder to follow, and in a distracted world,
it's really hard to follow. And I'm a sportscaster. But
I mean it's like they do jokes on TNT that
Shack and Barkley don't know certain players. Like That's that

(59:58):
gives you a sense of Yeah, they're sending messages constantly
that half these games don't matter. Well, that's not great messaging.

Speaker 4 (01:00:07):
Big Colin.

Speaker 3 (01:00:07):
I'm a complete basketball nut job. I coach it on
a volunteer level here in town. I play literally six
days a week. I get bored in the NBA regular season.
I do what every other person in the media does,
and like have to find reasons to be enthusiastic about
we'll recover. Well, you're in January. It's a slog, man,
It's literally a slog. Yeah, and again, I'm a nut

(01:00:29):
job when it comes to this stuff.

Speaker 1 (01:00:31):
I've argued for years that I would start the NBA
on the Wednesday after Thanksgiving, so I would start it
a month later because I think you can't compete with football.
But after Thanksgiving, people get this heaping helping of football,
and you talk about it on Monday on the sport
shows and Tuesday and then Wednesday because it's college football.

(01:00:52):
After Thanksgiving, slims down the schedule, slims down. You go
to conference championships. There's that Wednesday. I've noticed it for
years of my business. That Wednesday are like, God, wouldn't
it be granted, tonight was NBA opening night, So you
would push it back a month late August to the
Wednesday after Thanksgiving. You'd cut it down to about sixty
six sixty eight games. It would end July first, so

(01:01:17):
you'd push it back a little longer. There's nothing going
on in June and July early, and it would just
be a real estate move. Like the NFL moved free
agency to March. It was because they want they wanted
to take away some March madness. They saw opportunities. It
would be a you're just buying different beach property. You'd
move it back to after it that you have no
shot to compete until after Thanksgiving. It's just it's just

(01:01:39):
too much football. But then college football dims a little bit,
and the NBA and then cut the games down. But
you have the summer's wide open. I mean June and
early July are wide open, and then June July first
you crown your champion. You have the draft four days later.
Thanks for Flying United and FL camp. NFL camps open

(01:02:03):
NFL camp's open three days later, and it's perfect. The
NFL has been great at this. They just keep buying
different real estate. Moving out of this the end. The
NFL gives you June in the first week of July.

Speaker 4 (01:02:14):
Take it.

Speaker 1 (01:02:15):
They give it to you. You're not going to beat
him head to head. There we go, all right, good stuff,
Jason timp hoops tonight. Sorry Milwaukee, Indiana fans, Sorry Pelican fans.
We'll talk about you in a later date.

Speaker 4 (01:02:27):
I'll cover I'll cover them tomorrow. We'll get to We'll
get to them tomorrow.

Speaker 1 (01:02:30):
All right, Buddy, good seeing you. Thanks the volume, Thanks
so much for listening. If you've enjoyed the podcast, take
a moment rate and review