Colin’s top takes of the week!
Colin’s joined by John Middlekauff, host of “3 and Out” to talk NFL!
They start with Matthew Stafford deciding to stay in LA, debate whether the Rams asking price of a 1st round pick was too steep, and explain why Stafford would be crazy to leave the Rams in pursuit of more money (2:45).
They discuss the pending roster cuts the Eagles are facing after their Super Bowl win and debate whether the Eagles should keep linebacker Zack Baun or wide receiver A.J. Brown or cut/trade both in order to keep their dominant offensive and defensive lines intact (10:30).
They discuss Jerry Jones’ skipping his typical press conference at the combine after the Deebo Samuel to the Commanders move, why Dak’s contract will sink America’s Team and why Dallas might draft a quarterback in an early round (17:15).
Then Colin is joined by Marcus Thompson, sportswriter for The Athletic and author of “Golden,” KD” and “Dynasties” to talk NBA!
They begin with how the addition of Jimmy Butler has completely transformed the Warriors, why his presence has elevated Steph Curry’s game back to an MVP level (32:45) and they talk about the impact Butler has had on the Warriors offense (37:30),
They debate why Mark Cuban decided to sell his majority stake in the Mavericks and whether the prospect of moving the team to Las Vegas factored into the decision, and whether Cuban had prior insight into the Luka trade (39:30).
Colin floats his theory that LeBron had a bigger hand behind the scenes in facilitating the Luka trade than people realize, but Marcus offers a competing theory (43:15).
They try to diagnose what’s wrong with the Knicks, why they seem to have regressed since last season and why they have almost no chance of beating the Celtics or Cavs in the playoffs (50:45).
Finally, they debate what move the OKC Thunder should make when they finally decide to cash in the treasure trove of draft picks they’re sitting on (56:15).
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
The volume.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
My buddy, former NFL scout John Middlecoff, his podcast is
three and out. So it was interesting. I got a
I got a text today from a NFL executive. Apparently
the Rams were willing to move off Stafford, but they
wanted a first round pick. They wanted and and by
(00:32):
the way, you know the Raiders. We're going to give
him one hundred million guaranteed, which I still think that'll
be the upgrade the Rams make. But it just to
throw it out there. The Rams were willing to make
a move if they could have two first round picks.
What do you make of that? I trust my intel.
(00:54):
It's somebody pretty tied to the situation. What do you
make of that?
Speaker 3 (00:58):
So you're saying that they would not have traded the
Raiders for let's say a couple seconds.
Speaker 2 (01:02):
Nope, they wanted a first It was but it's interesting.
They're so close to the super Bowl. It is interesting
that they would have considered that. Now you know, this
is somebody that is close to it, So it's interesting.
It's so hard to get close to the super Bowl, right, Like,
(01:23):
thank god, the Niners have twelve picks this year, so
that should fortify them and make give them another run
because they've got you know, secondary and oline issues. But
it's it's even great teams. I mean, dynasty's close hard,
like like you're watching Kansas City this year and you're
like they're struggling to score points for the second year
in a role. I just it is interesting they would
have considered moving him for a first well.
Speaker 3 (01:46):
I think Sean McVeigh was very candid last week when
he was with his guy Whitworth's podcast, and he was
open to say, listen, we can't quantify this guy's value
to us on the field, but we can off the
field when it comes to our salary cap. And we
have limitations with the guy who's thirty seven years old.
And I think you used to have a line was
(02:07):
that you can't there's not a happy, happier or something.
Speaker 2 (02:11):
Yeahier than happy.
Speaker 3 (02:14):
And I thought this with Matt Stafford. Now, if they
would have acquiesced and a team would have traded picks
that would have made the Rams happy, would he have
given the thumbs up instead of taking the one year
forty We'll see what the you know in a week
what the number actually turns out to be. I think
that it's not public kind of shows you that you know,
the Rams didn't just give him a hundred ten million dollars,
(02:36):
right they And I think Sean McVay said today on
McAfee that's year to year thing, right, So I would
imagine they gave him a little bump up and raise,
but relative to the rest of the league, he's not
making what he's making. My take was this, I'm not
into telling someone to quote unquote take a pay cut
or what money means to them. But he's accumulated before
this season even starts, three hundred and sixty million dollars, right,
(03:00):
So I would imagine if his accountant's done pretty well.
I know he's got a big family, probably nine figures
in the bank and working for him, and investments like
Mats Stafford's doing really really well. Not only will he
never think about it as family, never will So it
doesn't get any better than Sean McVeigh, does it. Why
would he want to leave?
Speaker 2 (03:17):
Well, it's just I saw a story today where Fred
Couple said that brooks Kopka could, if he could, would
go back to the PGA Tour from the Live Golf
And again, I think I do think generational wealth does
make you happy for maybe twelve months. You know, it's you.
You get this kind of money, you set up trusts
with your kids, or you know, you buy that third
(03:40):
home if you're Brooks Kopka in that fourth car, and
it does give you a sense of independence. But ultimately,
people john not to be Tony Robbins here. People like
to be part of something. You know, it's not just
the money. Like the PGA Tour is part of something,
and it's an established something and there's credibility with it.
That's not a shot at the Live Tour, which I've defended.
(04:02):
But the Rams are something in Los Angeles, well owned,
well run, well coached right now. The Raiders are a
dream of what could be. The Rams are something. So
I think I've always said this, don't chase money, chase
good management and you'll eventually make good money. Maybe not
great money, but good money.
Speaker 3 (04:23):
Yeah. And I think if you use the Live guys
as an example, you know, Phil got a couple hundred
million dollars, but he was already worth hundreds of millions
of dollars. His was more of an f you to
the establishment, right, d Chambeau, Brooks and DJ. These guys
are not NBA, NFL players. So they get offered on
one hundred and eighty million dollars, it is hard that
changes their life. Matt Stafford making an extra fifty million dollars.
(04:46):
I mean you're talking after taxes or whatever. He's taken
home twenty eight thirty million dollars is not going to
change him or his family's life at all. But it
will impact his football life, which, like you said, the
Raiders or the Giants, which were the teams that look
like all in, are not going to win next year.
It's just not gonna happen, right. I don't even think
it's possible with the Raiders, right, you just to compete
(05:06):
in that division, even if you have a huge upgrade
at coach. I think Spy Tech is a young up
and comer. But to think twenty twelve and Matt Stafford
is living in the moment. So to me, the risk
of getting the extra money, if it would have gone through,
would have sent him backwards. I think in his football
career what we saw forever in Detroit, he finally I
felt like when he got to Sean McVay got to
(05:28):
validate the career. This guy with all this talent. Honestly,
these last couple of years, even more than the Super
Bowl year. It was like Matt Stafford. I mean, doesn't
get much better than that. And I think it would
have kind of been sad because it would have impacted
the Rams. I'm sorry, Jimmy Garoppolo or forty one year
old Aaron Rodgers. It would have been a drop off
(05:49):
from Matt Stafford. So I'm just glad that he stayed
and it worked out from a football standpoint, because this
they have a good offseason, a couple moves here and there.
I mean, who's to say that they are, you know,
a top two or three favored in the NFC to
be a you know, win the Super Bowl or represent
the NFC in the Super Bowl.
Speaker 2 (06:04):
Yeah, I mean, I think I think that game against
Philadelphia says it all. They're driving in a snowstorm and
they get down to the fifteen yard line and they
have a rookie center six round pick and they had
finally gotten their offensive line right. And by the way,
Philadelphia was a better team, better overall personnel. They almost
snuck out of that puppy with the W and so
(06:26):
and I've said this McVeigh doesn't really rebuild Shanahan feels
like he follows up great seasons with clunkers. If like
Christian McCaffrey's not healthy, McVay wins every year. It's just
they don't really they reboot, they don't necessarily rebuild the
I was saying that, I think.
Speaker 3 (06:42):
You know, you know one major difference. I think the
two right now is McVeigh has I thought Kyle, because
of his personality, would be a little more cutthroat. He's
been emotional when it came to Debo re signing him
and keeping him last year. With Ayuk McVeigh, it's like
Jalen Ramsey cut you off, see you Cooper Cup this year,
we're moving on right this offseason Stafford one year deal.
(07:04):
That's it. Where it's like the Niners found themselves in
this weird predicament of they've got emotional with some of
these players, and McVeigh kind of went to his grandpa's
roots of Walsh. It's like, yeah, we're done here. And
he's had to tactfully change, you know. With Goff he
was a little too outspoken and even he said that like,
I handled that wrong publicly. But this is a business.
(07:25):
We have to make tough decisions, and I think the
forty nine ers found themselves in a rut because they
tied themselves to every single player instead of you know,
in football, the guy can be a good player, but
you got a pivot. You can't sign them all.
Speaker 2 (07:37):
Well, I mean Philadelphia is in that spot right now.
Darius Slay is an easy cut. That's an easy one.
You and I any fan could make that because they
nailed their two you know, their two early picks at corners, right.
The tougher pick is going to be do you keep
the linebacker? Do you keep Aj Brown? And I've said
this before, I would move off Aj Brown. It's in
the NBA. When a big guy gets hurt early, he
(08:01):
gets hurt. Often. When a receiver is verbal and outspoken early,
they're outspoken often. Des Bryant didn't get quieter, right, so
Debo didn't get quieter. I would move off AJ Brown
because you're so good at running back, O line, quarterback,
tight end and Devonte Smith. I think that's an easy one.
(08:21):
But but you don't want to think like a fan.
But I think people will look at AJ Brown and go,
he's so good. It's wide receiver you can find. Really,
Puku Naku is a fifth rounder. I mean, there's one
or two positions in the NFL cornerback, wide receiver, running back.
It's amazing how much talent there is in the fourth round. Like,
there's all sorts of examples. So like I look at
(08:42):
Philadelphia and Howie Roseman, who, by the way, you know
the organization. He said after the Super Bowl, this is
gonna look different. Not everybody's gonna love it. So to me,
that was that was a little bit of a caution.
Guys were moving off some popular talented guys. You don't
say that if you just have to cut Dare Slay.
That's an easy one that nobody's losing sleep on.
Speaker 3 (09:04):
Yeah, to me, the AJ Brown one would only be
if they feel that relationship that Brandon Graham kind of
let the cat out of the bag and then they
tried to walk it back. It's like, come on, but
you know, winning cures all in their relationship. I mean,
he had a touchdown in the playoffs. He is when
when healthy, one of the best what four or five
six wide receivers in the league. I think the only
(09:25):
way they would do something like that would be to
clear up some movement. If they could get Miles Garrett
and by all accounts, they are going to be one
of the lead dogs in those moves. So I think
the thing was Zach Vaughn. This is what makes Howie
and I would just say, consistent football teams maintain it
or not. It's like, yeah, he's a good guy, he
had an incredible season, but are we going to break
(09:48):
the bank for a linebacker? And his history would say
the Eagles and good teams do not.
Speaker 2 (09:54):
That's right, right.
Speaker 3 (09:54):
Let someone else give you four years, eighty million dollars
and forty five million dollars guaranteed. And this is why
you keep drafting and why you keep investing in it.
And listen, part of being a good NFL team takes
some luck. Sometimes you got a guy one year, four
million dollars, first team All Pro. That's why you pay
Vic Fangio five six million dollars. You know that's last year.
(10:16):
He looked at this guy, special teamer, kind of outside linebacker.
Let's make him a middle linebacker under my tutelage, Patrick
Willis Navarro Bowman, let's roll. So if I was Howie,
I'd go, well, my return on investment is not the player,
it's the coach. Why couldn't I do this again. Why
can't we find a guy in the draft, maybe on
the second day, second or third round. Let fang, you
(10:37):
mold him like a piece of clay. He did it
with Navarro Bowman. Why couldn't he That's the best case scenario.
But no one in a million years in the NFL
would have said, Zach Bond first Team All Pro middle linebacker.
No chance. And that's that, you know football more than
all these other sports. The power of these coordinators, if
you get it right, I mean, look at Spagnola, look
at some of the offensive coordinators over the years, can.
Speaker 2 (10:59):
Chase your franchise.
Speaker 3 (11:01):
It's right because it's you're not paying them player money,
You're paying them four five, six million dollars.
Speaker 2 (11:05):
It's amazing to me how fans really really struggle and
and like to me, aj Brown and Bonner the linebacker
are pretty easy moves because I'm not going to disrupt
that O line probably for the next three years. I'm
I mean, I'm that O line. Maybe in two to
(11:27):
three years Lane Johnson retires, but the core of that
organization to me is now Saquon Jalen Hurts and that
O line. Everything else. To me, I'll move, but you're
finding this with Detroit. It's really I mean, think how
great people thought Dak was. I mean people really thought
Dak was a top five quarterback when the Cowboys o
line five years ago, those guys were all closer to
(11:48):
their prime. Now we look up and go, Jesus, Dak's
the most overpaid guy in the NFL by a long shot.
So you know, I just think when I when I
look at like when Tyreek Hill, Andy Reid moved off him,
I never forget the day it happened. I was like, yeah,
of course you move off him, like you got look
at the Pickstate guy at the time. I'm like, first round,
(12:09):
second round, second round. I'm like Brett Fiach is going
to hit on at least half of these. Of course
you make the move. He's a deep threat. Those guys
don't mean much in December and January when it's freezing
and windy. So I mean, the AJ Brown one is easy.
I'll go back to it. When a receiver Deebo is
a prime example, when they start getting outspoken early, that
doesn't go backwards and you're and by the way, you
(12:32):
won with him. You got to a couple of Super Bowls,
Like I also think there at some point in a
salary cap sport players become commodities and there's just you
have to move them. They're chess pieces, and you say, well,
where's the humanity? Come on, we all know the game here.
This is the way it is with pro sports. By
the way, in college now, kids leave their program all
(12:54):
the time. They make promises, they commit, they leave. We
all know this is how the game works.
Speaker 3 (13:00):
One thing with AJ two, if that would be something
they wanted to do, he still has a lot of value.
He's still one of the best players in the league.
I mean, you're not just kicking him away like Debo
for a fifth round pick. It might bring you back
like a second and a third. Yeah right, I don't
know if you could get I mean they traded a
first form, could they get a late first. I mean
some of those teams don't have the most cap room,
(13:21):
but you definitely probably get a second and a third. Yep,
you know, depends. I think there's always other moves. He's
not just getting rid of a player to get rid
of a player. You know that Milton Williams, the defensive
tackle that really came on. They would love to keep.
But guys like that are he's gonna get twenty million
dollars a year, That's right, So I think they're always
thinking the one thing the Eagles have been like since
(13:42):
before I got there and ever since long after I left,
they will go big game hunting. I'm telling you, if
Miles Garrett this is the Browns can say all they want,
we're not moving on and listen. I would understand if
you're a well run, competitive team, but given the Deshaun's situation,
this is the time to just blow the thing up.
And to me, he would net you multiple first round picks.
(14:04):
So if that, if he's available, I think the Eagles
would be front and center with the package of things
that they would put in front of them to the
land that player and their owner. And how you manipulate
the salary gap is you pay these insane bonus right right,
If everyone plays under the same umbrella of the cap,
but I can cut you a bigger signing bonus, then
that's where guys sign up for.
Speaker 2 (14:25):
Yeah, And for the record, fans tend to think all
these owners are even No, they're not. Stan Cronk, Jeffrey Lewie.
The Denver Broncos can pay more upfront than a majority
of the teams. I mean, the Chicago Bears are just
not an organization. I mean, the Packers have to get
everything a boot approved. The Bears don't have that kind
of money historically. So there was a moment this weekend
(14:48):
Jerry Jones canceled his interview at the NFL Combine. And
the Cowboys have had a rough couple of years. I mean,
they gave away a fourth round pick for Trey Lance.
He couldn't beat out Cooper Rush. I mean, if Kyle
Shanahan can make a quarterback accurate, he's not accurate. They
gave up a fourth round pick for a Jonathan Mingo,
the wide receiver five catches for the Cowboys, and again
(15:08):
both those moves, you know, we all kind of went. Meanwhile,
the Commanders gave up a fifth round pick for Deebo Samuel.
And it's really interesting as I look at Washington, not
just because of the result, but between Adam Peters, Cliff
(15:29):
dan Quinn, that move for Debo Jaden Daniels, and I
don't think, like a lot of times there's recency bias.
I honestly believe for the next decade, Washington is going
to be one of the three best NFC teams. And
I think, what's happening with the Cowboys Now they're becoming
(15:50):
the old Al Davis Raiders. They feel like they are honestly,
they are lost at sea. I mean they are giving
away picks now. I mean people don't understand. They may
re work Dax contract. It's a ninety million dollar cap
(16:12):
hit that is over double Josh Allen. They can rework
it all they want to. What fifty eight I said
this a year ago. I said they're going to start
a decade of regression. It has happened so fast in
this league. Shit goes south so fast. What did you
make of the debo only giving up a fifth round pick?
Speaker 3 (16:34):
Well, to me, you just look at the free agent
class and you go, well, we don't want to get
in any long because the whole thing was Washington has
all this cap space, they need some more weapons for Jayden.
And you look around you go, well, NFL free agency
is the most overrated thing because high end guys never
make it, and the guys that do you have to
pay an absolute premium to get. Remember a couple of
years ago, Christian Kirk got like four years, ninety million dollars.
(16:57):
He actually turned out to be okay. But you have
to pay, you know, elite money for those guys, so
I can get debo on a year to year contract.
I have all this space. All I have to give
up is a fifth round pick, and in the nil era, fifth, sixth,
seventh round picks feel like diminished and watered down. I
also think you get a guy who's a little motivated.
People are calling him fat, you know, a little like
(17:18):
Luca style. Adam Peters knows the guy well. Cliff Kingsbury.
You know, when you think back to Arizona, they used
a lot of gadget players. Rondell Moore, the Purdue guy,
different type player, but guys you can get behind the
line of scrimmage. You know. I actually think it's a
good scheme fit. He has excelled when they've had a
route running wide receiver on the opposite side. Terry McLaurin,
(17:40):
Brandon Nayuk to me, if you get a motivated Debo,
it's a no brainer. We have all this cap space.
I give him seventeen. All I have to give up
is a fifth round pick. And if you're the forty
nine ers, you weren't gonna pay him seventeen million dollars
here in a couple of weeks. So it's I think
it's kind of a win win. The Niners are moving off,
they don't have to eat any of the money. They
trade to a team where the general was around, not
(18:01):
only drafting him, but his good and bad moments, so
knows his personality. Because the other thing, I mean, you've
been saying it forever. Why you see it's gonna be
a little moodie. I mean they got a little like
Hollywood actor to him. They need to be you just
you have to know their personality. It's very rare to
get like a Larry Fitzgerald. Most guys are more debo.
And Adam Peters knows this player really well. And I
(18:22):
think the Jerry Jones thing. How often in any business
that if the eighty year old patriarch of the operation
is around and his name's not Warren Buffett and Berkshire Hathaway,
is it a healthy place to be when the guy's hovering,
he's made an ungodly amount of money, he does not
need to be there, and he's extra hands on. So Jered,
(18:44):
you could argue Jerry's ego feels like it's only grown.
As they've quote unquote struggled over the last decade relative
to some of their big seasons, and they've underwhelmed in
the playoffs. It doesn't feel like Jerry's gone. You know what,
I'm gonna let Steven and Will McKay and my coach
take a bigger role. I'm just I'm just going to
be more of a figurehead. He always doubles down. I'm
(19:07):
cutting the check. My name's on that bad boy. I'm involved.
I'm a football guy, and he's not wrong. I mean,
he played college football, he's been around his whole life.
But unlike a lot of football guys, Jerry is addicted
to business. Yeah, and the business of his team is
marketing and all that. And it's just there's just a
lot going on with the Cowboys, and you know, Micah Parsons.
Speaker 2 (19:28):
You talk about Dak's cappit.
Speaker 3 (19:30):
If they do give Mike a new deal and don't
trade them, what's that deal? One hundred and fifty million
dollars guaranteed for quarterback contract?
Speaker 2 (19:36):
Brudal No.
Speaker 3 (19:37):
I mean, so they're in three guys at a combine
what like five hundred million dollars?
Speaker 2 (19:41):
Crazy? I mean, I just you can't have three different
players top of the market when only one of them,
Ce d Lamb is top five at his position in
the NFL. It's like, I mean, it's I had a
very good year last year, predicting, very bad year, picking
(20:02):
individual games, very good year, you know, picking teams. I
got Washington and Denver and some of the upstarts. This year,
I think New England is going to be a surprise
playoff team. I think the Jets are going to go
sideways a little bit. They don't have a quarterback. I
think Miami I kind of think they've topped out a
little bit. All the motion and the tricks and smoking mirrors.
(20:24):
I think there's limitations there. I think New England's going
to be in play. And my other one is I
think Dallas is potentially a five or six win team
with Brian Schottenheimer. I mean, I have the good news
is it's a good quarterback draft. I have to go
out and get one if I was Dallas this year.
In fact, I think I heard Stephen Jones say this.
I had another person tell me who I respect. Keep
(20:48):
your eye on Kyle McCord out of Syracuse in the
late second round. Do not be shocked if the Dallas
Cowboys do go after Kyle McCord of Syracuse US Now
they're not late second. I think Dallas made trade down
in the second round to get a mid second pick.
I am hearing more and more, and I went and
(21:10):
watched him about a month ago. Kyle McCord throws a
really nice ball, and I thought about this if he
had stayed, because Will Howard completed sixty one percent of
his throws at Kansas State. He goes to Ohio State
and complete seventy three percent of his throws. If you
don't think that matters. If if Kyle McCord stays at
Ohio State with Jeremiah Smith and Ibuka and the two
(21:33):
NFL running backs, and Kyle McCord, who's a much better
pro prospect than Will Howard, it's not even. It's not
Will Howard is like late fifth, sixth. In fact, somebody
today texts me in the NFL he thinks after the
combine he's a seventh round pick.
Speaker 3 (21:49):
I think he had a bad combine.
Speaker 2 (21:51):
Oh bad. I think I think Kyle McCord is going
to end up being as good as any quarterback in
that draft. This is my the hottest take is that
he'll be the guy tell me I'm wrong.
Speaker 3 (22:04):
Well, I think yeah. I watched a couple of Syracuse
games this season and went, this is the guy that
Ryan Day because let's face it, they blamed him for
the Michigan loss two years ago and he got kicked out,
and so I listen, I believed him. I was like, hey,
this guy, if he can't make it there, maybe they're right.
And then you watch them at Syracuse, who had their
best season in a while. He was spinning. He's got
(22:25):
a big arms guy spiral. I think him and Jackson
Dart because there are so many question marks with the
top two guys with Cam and Chador. If you're talking
about two guys you have the draft in the top
I don't know one guy in the top five, the
other guy in the top twelve. You can get these
two guys. Historically, McCord is not going to be a
first round pick, but even Jackson Dart would also have
(22:46):
been a second round pick. You could find the Derek Carrs,
the Jimmy Garoppolos, these guys that can start for you,
and if you do a good job building your team,
you can win with I think The problem for the
Cowboys is, if you look at the Dak Era, they
really only had to deal with the Eagles, but he
just kind of went back in over the last ten years,
right with Doug Peterson and then Sirianni Era. Well, now
it's not just the Eagles, it's Washington too. So you
(23:07):
add another team because Washington up until last year was
a joke. The Giants have been terrible for what a
decade plus, So now the Cowboys don't just have to
deal with the Eagles, they have to deal with Washington.
I mean, that's that's a huge problem. And even if
they do draft mccor Jackson Dart whoever, let's say they
draft a second round pick that does nothing for them
in twenty twenty five and honestly does nothing for them
(23:30):
the next couple of years. That guy's they're kind of
just hoping to get their Jordan Love, which is good
big picture team building, but it does not help them
trying to beat the Eagles or Washington in Week seven,
when you're three and three and your season kind of
feels like it's teetering.
Speaker 2 (23:48):
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Speaker 2 (25:13):
All right, he's one of my favorite guests, and it's
a perfect time to get him. Marcus Thompson right for
the Athletic. He's the author of the book Golden KD
and Dynasties Really Plugged in. I you know, it's it's
the Warrior's got a lot of good people covering him.
I think Marcus does as good a job as anybody
that covers a team in the country in any sport,
and he is joining us. I mean, it's so funny
(25:37):
because I watched a lot of Warriors basketball, and in
my job, I got to watch a lot of stuff.
But you know, I just got into a habit, you know,
for ten years of watching the Warriors, and I made
a comment, I'm like, man, when Steph is off the floor,
this is pre Jimmy Butler. I'm like, this is a
boring ass team. This is a bad watch. And I said,
I'd bring in Jimmy Butler just for energy and he'll
(26:00):
just get everybody all worked up. So were you in
when you heard Jimmy was coming? Were you in the
it may not work camp, it'll work kind of camp,
or it'll be sensational camp.
Speaker 5 (26:13):
Which camp were you in? I might be at all three.
To be honest with you, I might. I might have
been in all three. You know it was it was difficult.
I will say this up front. I didn't expect this.
Speaker 1 (26:26):
I didn't expect like I mean, like, the one thing
that's underscore for me, I love Andrew Wiggins. I think
Andrew Wiggins is a really good NBA player, especially who
he's become with the Warriors.
Speaker 2 (26:39):
He's like a testament. So if you put him.
Speaker 1 (26:41):
In a right situation, right, he'll be great for you.
Like he probably shouldn't be the a one of a franchise, right,
but if you put him in a good situation, he's great.
Like he's a great teammate, plays hard Colin. There's a
difference between an All Star and the Superstar. These teams
are categorically different, and because of all the drama that
(27:05):
was going down in Miami, and you know, even how
Miami was like a middleague kind of team over these
last couple of years, I forgot that Jimmy Butler is
a superstar. That to me is the thing cognitively if
you said, yeah, you put another superstar next to Steph
like that that's what he needs. But watching him with Jimmy,
(27:28):
it reminds.
Speaker 2 (27:29):
You like, no, Jimmy is one of them once, like.
Speaker 1 (27:32):
He's he's a bit of a side show sometimes, but
like he's one of those guys and it's instant. And
the crazy part is he didn't even have to play well. Yeah,
he doesn't even have to play well, and you could.
Speaker 2 (27:43):
He's not shooting well right now, He's.
Speaker 1 (27:45):
Not even taking his shots. Jimmy lives mid range. He's
he's going he's going to the elbow and rising up.
He's not doing any of that. He's just on the court.
And by virtue of being Jimmy Butler on the court,
he will punish you if you let him, and if
you don't, then Steph will punish you.
Speaker 2 (28:05):
So like that's the thing.
Speaker 1 (28:06):
Like the moment he got there, you could feel the vibe.
Speaker 2 (28:10):
Shanes just by him being there.
Speaker 1 (28:12):
Like he shows up in his Alo sweatsuit at the
Laker game. He didn't even sit on a bench, none
of the things. You'd expect this dude to come in
and be like, all right, I'm part of this thing.
He just came in as Jimmy and to shas everything.
And I was like, heyo, I didn't see that, Like
I didn't see that happening in a way like it did.
Speaker 2 (28:33):
Right. He's also I've used the word, he's a very
intentional player, like possessions matter. He doesn't waste possessions. I
always thought sometimes Wiggins could be a little bit of
a floater. He would waste possessions. You weren't quite sure
if he was on the floor. Jimmy's got more of
a presence. He's more intentional. He gets to the free
throw line, and you know, it also underscores something. And
(28:55):
I've seen this with Lebron, with Luca is when you're
on a treadmill to nowhere. This is a long season
and it's hard to get guys like Steph or Lebron
fired up for an eight seed, right you give them.
I said this, It's like Lebron and Steph have a
new buddy in the neighborhood they want to show off
to and they're just I mean, Steph's averaging like six
(29:18):
more points. You only take one more shot. So I
think it. You know, in football, you got eight home games.
You know, it's it's very urgent. It's hard for these
guys who are at the mountaintop to get fired up
for you know, a playing team. I feel like Steph is.
This is one of these unintended benefits of making a
trade with a great player. The great player drives to
(29:42):
the arena, ready to show off, ready to perform. And
you know now that the honeymoon, the new car smell
may wear off. But there is something to be said
about the fit. Hell, Kuminga is not playing what when
you watch When you watch Butler analytically, there were questions
(30:02):
if he'd fit. Do you think he's more valuable on
offense or defense? Right now? Right now?
Speaker 1 (30:09):
Offense definitely, I mean by virtue of he's impacting one
of the greatest offensive weapons in the history of sports
in the way he is right, you can see it.
Steph is a different dude. That's a monster. It's so crazy.
He said it, and I didn't know it till I
looked it up. The day they traded him, Steph took
(30:32):
thirty six shots and then the next day he took
thirty two. It was the first time in his career
he taking thirty shots in back to back games. He'd
never done that before, and Jimmy hadn't even played yet.
Just the fact that we got Jimmy, now let's turn up.
So the fact that Jimmy has that impact on Steph,
to me, brings that to it because you're right, like
(30:55):
the part that's so very viscerally. They just were not
good before. I mean they were, they were it was boring.
They got guys who just don't go into the paint.
Jimmy's message now is like, hey, you see what they're
doing to Steph. Just going to the paint. It's wide open.
As a matter of fact, I'm going to show you.
(31:16):
Just throw it down to me in the paint like
I'm not doing anything else. I'm going to the rim.
And you could see them saying, hey, that's kind of working.
But without that, they're just chucking threes. They aren't really
very good, and it was it was just draining life
out of Steph. So to me that that part has
been such a jot, like they're they're like a top
(31:39):
five offensive defense with Jimmy, but they were bad, offensively
bad and bad and boring, like it's a bad combo. Right,
you don't want to be bad and boring.
Speaker 2 (31:51):
So you wrote that article on the suffering MAVs fans.
Do you think when Cuban Cuban sold the team? Mark
has a pretty good sense of business timing and exit strategy? Absolutely,
why do you think? Why do you think Cubans sold?
(32:13):
I tend to think everything Mark's again Mark. Mark is
very good at seeing around corners. I can disagree with
him sometimes on loving NFTs and Bitcoin or politics or
whatever it is, but it's it just feels like Cuban
sold the team and it hasn't felt the same since
he sold it.
Speaker 1 (32:36):
You know the fact, Like when he sold it, I thought,
is this a Vegas move? Are you sell it to
the Vegas billionaire the Adamson family, right, the wife of
the famous you know, Vegas casino guy, the one who
got foleece by Mark Davis? Ily enough for the Raiders,
(32:57):
But I thought, is this a vague gets moved? And
one of the things that I've learned from Joe Lacup
and the whole A's the Bacca is. You know, Oakland
has lost its teams, and it's all boils down to
you got to be ready to spend one point five
to two billion dollars own the stadium.
Speaker 2 (33:14):
Yep. You just have to be able to do that.
Speaker 1 (33:16):
And if you're not ready to do that, now you're
relying on your local municipality to come up with the money.
Speaker 2 (33:22):
And I'm like, I'm.
Speaker 1 (33:24):
Thinking, cubansaw, do I want to spend a two billion
dollar stadium or cash out and get my billions?
Speaker 2 (33:31):
Right?
Speaker 1 (33:32):
It's the opposite move of what John Fisher did with
the A's sell the team to get billions or No.
Now he's playing in like a high school stadium in
Sacramento because they don't want to say it like that.
Speaker 2 (33:44):
That's what I thought.
Speaker 1 (33:46):
I don't think at any point he thought Luca was
going to be traded.
Speaker 2 (33:50):
You know why? You know why he didn't think that.
Speaker 1 (33:52):
Because you don't trade Luca ever, at least you don't
do it at twenty five years old, right, So I
wouldn't be surprised if Cuban knew that it's going to
be tough to get the stadium we need because remember
he remember when he bought that team, and he was right.
It was like, oh, they got the new fancy the lockers,
(34:12):
and they treat the players top not like like you
gotta be top notch now, and that's two billion dollars.
That's two billion dollars. You just gotta have two billion dollars.
I think he saw it might be tough to get
a stadium. Let me sell it. Let me let me
take the profit instead of digging a bigger hole. And
if that means the team goes to Vegas like that,
(34:35):
it's off my hands, so to speak.
Speaker 2 (34:37):
That's the best I can think of. But I agree
with you.
Speaker 1 (34:40):
One Cuban saw this seven steps away.
Speaker 2 (34:45):
He was on it. I'll throw my Lebron theory at you.
Lebron has always avoided a mess. So he leaves Cleveland.
He plays in the Olympics and he's like, man, I
got to play with good players. Dan Snyder can't get me.
He goes to Miami four finals, Wade and Boshed, especially
Wade is struggling to play back to backs. He bails.
(35:06):
He's right. He goes to Cleveland, gets the title. Kyrie's like,
I don't want to be here. We're maxed out. He
leaves a second time. This time everybody's good with it.
He goes to the Lakers. People love Lonzo Ball, Kyle Kuzma.
He didn't. He got rid of him. Brings in a
D eighty was great. And I believe Lebron realized as
(35:28):
he aged about two years ago that he could not
be on every possession every night the lead initiator, and
Austin Reeves is more of a three or a four
than a two. And so I think he was looking
for Steph two years ago. Oh and he made overteers
overtures and went back channels with Steph and stuff's like, man,
(35:48):
I'm good here. And then I think he was interested
in Yoka, and I think it happened to be like, hey,
do you want to come here. It's that that trial
was part of conversation. How about yep, you could be here.
He knew Jokic could also make the game easier for him.
Denver's not interested. And I think when Cuban sold the Mavericks,
(36:08):
I think Lebron went back channels thought to himself, here's
the moment I'm going to make sure he knows I
like him a lot. I think eventually he made it
known upstairs, guys, I'm getting older. I cannot play forty minutes.
I love ad to death, but I can't be the
play initiator every damn time down the floor. I can't
(36:30):
do it. I mean there are times now when you
watch him now Austin Reeves hasn't played in a couple
of games. When Luca and Austin are there together, I mean,
it's like Lebron's a scott a smile on his face.
He just he's floating in the wing. It's and by
the way, he's got absolutely But I do think. I think,
(36:51):
and this is not a criticism, I think Lebron's the
smartest player in league history, arguably in a short list.
I think he's calculated. And the idea that he just
woke up one day and went, well, what do you know,
we got Luca the perfect teammate. I don't buy that.
I just I mean, Marcus, I'm not a tenfoil hot guy.
(37:11):
But Lebron is too smart, he's too much of a businessman.
I think he made he let everybody know Luca is
the target. You think I'm nuts, I don't.
Speaker 1 (37:23):
I just wonder how you keep that quiet, because one
thing le Bron hasn't been great at is keeping all
this stuff quiet. So Okham's razor come into play. What's
more likely that Lebron pulled this from behind the string,
which I'm not saying is off the table, or Nico
Harrison was like, I got the move.
Speaker 2 (37:43):
That's gonna make me a legend.
Speaker 1 (37:45):
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (37:46):
Yeah, they're both kind of wild. Did he really just
do this though?
Speaker 1 (37:52):
Did Nicos just decide, you know what, I'm gonna call
Rob p Linka, We're gonna make this happen. That's almost
as crazy.
Speaker 2 (38:06):
What did you make in New York watching them? What
do you make of the next Nixon? Nix?
Speaker 1 (38:11):
Is just disappointment. I'm I'm gonna give a pass because
Towns wasn't not there. But for a team that can't
shoot threes, they sure a jack at a lot. But I
don't like their will at the end, and I wonder,
I wonder if Thibodeaux has worn them down.
Speaker 2 (38:22):
They they they their will on the defensive end. Has
this it has? It can't just be Hartenstein. They're just
not as good.
Speaker 1 (38:33):
You can you can break them defensively, and that's that's
gonna be troubling. Now again, playoff basketball is different. It's
half court. The half court's matchup base. But I'm wondering,
what are their legs like, like what what is what
is their psyche like? After what is this year three,
year four of TIBs And I don't know.
Speaker 2 (38:55):
It's like it's Gi Santos.
Speaker 1 (38:57):
It was g Santo's cooking there, Like we're not talking
about like Staffle's cooler, like Jimmy Butler was okay. But
they're getting out worked by guys who should be in
the G League. They their will just breaks sometimes, like
if you watch Knicks, they just they just decide to
give up and then it's like Brunsley, go save us.
So I don't I mean, obviously Boston and Cleveland are
(39:19):
at the top. But I'll tell you this, if I'm
New York, I don't want them Pistons in the first round.
I'll tell you that much. You know, you don't want
to see them Pistons in the first round. That that young,
hungry team full of athletes who willing to fight. Yeah, nah,
I don't know if they have the will. So again,
they didn't have Town, so that's something. But I'm I'm
(39:40):
worried about the Knicks team. I'm not quite steven A.
Smith Lever worried, but I'm worried about the Knicks team.
Speaker 2 (39:46):
Well, I've watched them play Boston twice, and I've watched
one of the Cleveland games and they attacked Karl Anthony
Towns in the pick and roll. I mean, they just
attack them. I don't know.
Speaker 1 (39:56):
Towns is not going to solve this problem in the playoffs. No,
they might be able to score more, which will help
you get some teams. But if it's talented, Yeah, he's talented, Yeah,
no question, he'll he'll go out and get you some
buckets in the playoffs and he'll he'll create some moments.
But like this team, you know, if they get either
(40:17):
Boston or Cleveland in the second round, I just don't know.
And they have to get they have to get one
of them.
Speaker 2 (40:23):
Right, Yeah, they just don't match. Cleveland is so effic
Cleveland and Boston are the two best teams in the league.
They can defend the rim, they can defend the perimeter.
They've got scoring guards, they've got scoring wings. They they're
both efficient. Yeah, yeah, it's I always if Derek White
is it's some night's the fifth best player on your team.
That is a that it's almost like they you know,
(40:47):
with the new taxes and the new ceilings and the
the way it works in April all the second apron Ship.
It's like Boston for about two years beat it. They've
got a roster that you couldn't build right now, but
they kind of grandfathered it in and they just got
too many good players.
Speaker 1 (41:05):
Yeah. In Cleveland, man, that DeAndre Hunter trade was like unfair.
Speaker 2 (41:11):
They were already really good.
Speaker 1 (41:12):
They's got another And that's the thing about all these
guys like that, you got to be able to guard wings.
And you look like you just listened like four people
of Boston who gu guard wings. Cleveland just added up
another guy. They've got guys who could guard wings. That
to me is gonna be like I'm not putting Oklahoma
City in there yet because I want to see them
in the playoffs guard wings or guard the explosive point guard.
Speaker 2 (41:35):
Like.
Speaker 1 (41:35):
They've got the bodies, they got the the stats right,
they write pretty well defensively. Playoffs are different, Monster, It's
just different.
Speaker 2 (41:44):
It's just and this Cleveland team, you've had Donovan Mitchell
and Evan Mobley. You know last year they kind of
disappointed us. Oklahoma City feels like Cleveland last year. Yea
really impressive but not quite ready to go on the
road and give you a plus play stuff from from
role players on the road. I think Cleveland's ready to
do that now. Mobley just Mobley's better every year.
Speaker 1 (42:06):
Yeah, and and again they've added the upgrade pieces to
like they didn't just run it back with the same team.
Speaker 2 (42:13):
And that's that's what we're gonna see about. Okay.
Speaker 1 (42:15):
See, maybe Shaye is just that good where he figured
it out like he felt it. They lost to Dallas,
they went to work and got better. Maybe he's enough
and Jalen Williams is enough next to him. I just
want to see it first because experience matters a lot.
Speaker 2 (42:34):
Man.
Speaker 1 (42:34):
It's just the playoffs are a different monster. Like if
they get Yokic. I love Chick Holgren. What is he
doing with Nikola Jokic, Like, that's that's just gonna be
a tough like you have to fight, You got to
fight out of that series. You know, Jamal Murray shows up,
it's over. He'll always show up. But what he does,
it's pretty good. Right, So that and russy, Like you
(42:56):
have to fight to get out the West. So I'm
curious about how all the kind of fight Oklahoma City have.
If they got it, they should, they should be in
the finals. If not, it's gonna be a long off
season for Sam Presty because he's got like a bounty
of stuff. That's like, at some point you probably need
to cash in all these assets you're so famous for
and get something, right, go go go get you honest.
(43:19):
Then if if you can't win, like go do something
with all that's who that's where Lucas should be.
Speaker 2 (43:26):
I'm like, hey, give me all that stuff for Luca.
Speaker 1 (43:28):
That's right, he should be in Oklahoma City with my
seven picks, three young players and defensive stoppers and all
that that, like, if they got to win. Otherwise, Sam
Presty needs to go in and cash in that winning
ticket he's got, or the winning tickets.
Speaker 2 (43:44):
Well, I mean every other NBA draft is you know,
fairly talentless. This past draft. It just there's not a
lot there. So like you can have all these draft picks,
but what you have to do is when you get
that every third draft, when it's really deep, when you
go all in and then then I mean, I couldn't
tall the last time we had great back to back drafts.
That's just not the way it works anymore. You get
like a good one, a bad one, a moderate one,
(44:07):
a good one. So I think, okay, I think Presty's sharp.
You know, it's I worry about Homegron long term, his body.
But they got waves of players. Do you want to
see KDE back there? It's interesting Jmack on my show today.
I don't know if it's a very attractive place for KD.
But I will say this, I don't know his relationship
(44:28):
with Presty. If you're asking me if there's a dude
that works, it's Oklahoma City and KD because he doesn't
need the ball. He is catch and shoot and SGA
needs the ball. So yeah, I mean, I'd catching a
lot of chips. That's it'd be a two year experiment.
But Jesus him homegrown Sga Williams, Jesus, that is a
(44:50):
lot of buckets.
Speaker 1 (44:51):
That's a lot of buckets, a lot of fin buckets too.
Speaker 2 (44:57):
Marcus Thompson, great senior man. Love seeing you. Likewise, likewise,
it's hard out here in the streets.
Speaker 1 (45:04):
I got my new assignment I'm covering figure skating World
Championships for the Athletic.
Speaker 2 (45:13):
I am an accomplished Olympic writer.
Speaker 1 (45:16):
Now, Colin, I was in Paris covering track and field
and now I'm going figure skating. Can you imagine me
at the figure skating I'm in this thing. I'm out
here college.
Speaker 2 (45:27):
Wow. Good for you. Well you're a great writer. So
you've got the ability to do different, different things. I'm
taking advantage of it now. I'm looking forward to this.
So yeah, yeah, let's go up.
Speaker 1 (45:37):
Next time, we're going to talk about with the quad
God in advance of the winter.
Speaker 2 (45:43):
I can't promise you that for the Athletic. The very
talented Marcus Thompson, Thanks buddy, thanks for having me, my guy,
The volume.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
My buddy, former NFL scout John Middlecoff, his podcast is
three and out. So it was interesting. I got a
I got a text today from a NFL executive. Apparently
the Rams were willing to move off Stafford, but they
wanted a first round pick. They wanted and and by
(00:32):
the way, you know the Raiders. We're going to give
him one hundred million guaranteed, which I still think that'll
be the upgrade the Rams make. But it just to
throw it out there. The Rams were willing to make
a move if they could have two first round picks.
What do you make of that? I trust my intel.
(00:54):
It's somebody pretty tied to the situation. What do you
make of that?
Speaker 3 (00:58):
So you're saying that they would not have traded the
Raiders for let's say a couple seconds.
Speaker 2 (01:02):
Nope, they wanted a first It was but it's interesting.
They're so close to the super Bowl. It is interesting
that they would have considered that. Now you know, this
is somebody that is close to it, So it's interesting.
It's so hard to get close to the super Bowl, right, Like,
(01:23):
thank god, the Niners have twelve picks this year, so
that should fortify them and make give them another run
because they've got you know, secondary and oline issues. But
it's it's even great teams. I mean, dynasty's close hard,
like like you're watching Kansas City this year and you're
like they're struggling to score points for the second year
in a role. I just it is interesting they would
have considered moving him for a first well.
Speaker 3 (01:46):
I think Sean McVeigh was very candid last week when
he was with his guy Whitworth's podcast, and he was
open to say, listen, we can't quantify this guy's value
to us on the field, but we can off the
field when it comes to our salary cap. And we
have limitations with the guy who's thirty seven years old.
And I think you used to have a line was
(02:07):
that you can't there's not a happy, happier or something.
Speaker 2 (02:11):
Yeahier than happy.
Speaker 3 (02:14):
And I thought this with Matt Stafford. Now, if they
would have acquiesced and a team would have traded picks
that would have made the Rams happy, would he have
given the thumbs up instead of taking the one year
forty We'll see what the you know in a week
what the number actually turns out to be. I think
that it's not public kind of shows you that you know,
the Rams didn't just give him a hundred ten million dollars,
(02:36):
right they And I think Sean McVay said today on
McAfee that's year to year thing, right, So I would
imagine they gave him a little bump up and raise,
but relative to the rest of the league, he's not
making what he's making. My take was this, I'm not
into telling someone to quote unquote take a pay cut
or what money means to them. But he's accumulated before
this season even starts, three hundred and sixty million dollars, right,
(03:00):
So I would imagine if his accountant's done pretty well.
I know he's got a big family, probably nine figures
in the bank and working for him, and investments like
Mats Stafford's doing really really well. Not only will he
never think about it as family, never will So it
doesn't get any better than Sean McVeigh, does it. Why
would he want to leave?
Speaker 2 (03:17):
Well, it's just I saw a story today where Fred
Couple said that brooks Kopka could, if he could, would
go back to the PGA Tour from the Live Golf
And again, I think I do think generational wealth does
make you happy for maybe twelve months. You know, it's you.
You get this kind of money, you set up trusts
with your kids, or you know, you buy that third
(03:40):
home if you're Brooks Kopka in that fourth car, and
it does give you a sense of independence. But ultimately,
people john not to be Tony Robbins here. People like
to be part of something. You know, it's not just
the money. Like the PGA Tour is part of something,
and it's an established something and there's credibility with it.
That's not a shot at the Live Tour, which I've defended.
(04:02):
But the Rams are something in Los Angeles, well owned,
well run, well coached right now. The Raiders are a
dream of what could be. The Rams are something. So
I think I've always said this, don't chase money, chase
good management and you'll eventually make good money. Maybe not
great money, but good money.
Speaker 3 (04:23):
Yeah. And I think if you use the Live guys
as an example, you know, Phil got a couple hundred
million dollars, but he was already worth hundreds of millions
of dollars. His was more of an f you to
the establishment, right, d Chambeau, Brooks and DJ. These guys
are not NBA, NFL players. So they get offered on
one hundred and eighty million dollars, it is hard that
changes their life. Matt Stafford making an extra fifty million dollars.
(04:46):
I mean you're talking after taxes or whatever. He's taken
home twenty eight thirty million dollars is not going to
change him or his family's life at all. But it
will impact his football life, which, like you said, the
Raiders or the Giants, which were the teams that look
like all in, are not going to win next year.
It's just not gonna happen, right. I don't even think
it's possible with the Raiders, right, you just to compete
(05:06):
in that division, even if you have a huge upgrade
at coach. I think Spy Tech is a young up
and comer. But to think twenty twelve and Matt Stafford
is living in the moment. So to me, the risk
of getting the extra money, if it would have gone through,
would have sent him backwards. I think in his football
career what we saw forever in Detroit, he finally I
felt like when he got to Sean McVay got to
(05:28):
validate the career. This guy with all this talent. Honestly,
these last couple of years, even more than the Super
Bowl year. It was like Matt Stafford. I mean, doesn't
get much better than that. And I think it would
have kind of been sad because it would have impacted
the Rams. I'm sorry, Jimmy Garoppolo or forty one year
old Aaron Rodgers. It would have been a drop off
(05:49):
from Matt Stafford. So I'm just glad that he stayed
and it worked out from a football standpoint, because this
they have a good offseason, a couple moves here and there.
I mean, who's to say that they are, you know,
a top two or three favored in the NFC to
be a you know, win the Super Bowl or represent
the NFC in the Super Bowl.
Speaker 2 (06:04):
Yeah, I mean, I think I think that game against
Philadelphia says it all. They're driving in a snowstorm and
they get down to the fifteen yard line and they
have a rookie center six round pick and they had
finally gotten their offensive line right. And by the way,
Philadelphia was a better team, better overall personnel. They almost
snuck out of that puppy with the W and so
(06:26):
and I've said this McVeigh doesn't really rebuild Shanahan feels
like he follows up great seasons with clunkers. If like
Christian McCaffrey's not healthy, McVay wins every year. It's just
they don't really they reboot, they don't necessarily rebuild the
I was saying that, I think.
Speaker 3 (06:42):
You know, you know one major difference. I think the
two right now is McVeigh has I thought Kyle, because
of his personality, would be a little more cutthroat. He's
been emotional when it came to Debo re signing him
and keeping him last year. With Ayuk McVeigh, it's like
Jalen Ramsey cut you off, see you Cooper Cup this year,
we're moving on right this offseason Stafford one year deal.
(07:04):
That's it. Where it's like the Niners found themselves in
this weird predicament of they've got emotional with some of
these players, and McVeigh kind of went to his grandpa's
roots of Walsh. It's like, yeah, we're done here. And
he's had to tactfully change, you know. With Goff he
was a little too outspoken and even he said that like,
I handled that wrong publicly. But this is a business.
(07:25):
We have to make tough decisions, and I think the
forty nine ers found themselves in a rut because they
tied themselves to every single player instead of you know,
in football, the guy can be a good player, but
you got a pivot. You can't sign them all.
Speaker 2 (07:37):
Well, I mean Philadelphia is in that spot right now.
Darius Slay is an easy cut. That's an easy one.
You and I any fan could make that because they
nailed their two you know, their two early picks at corners, right.
The tougher pick is going to be do you keep
the linebacker? Do you keep Aj Brown? And I've said
this before, I would move off Aj Brown. It's in
the NBA. When a big guy gets hurt early, he
(08:01):
gets hurt. Often. When a receiver is verbal and outspoken early,
they're outspoken often. Des Bryant didn't get quieter, right, so
Debo didn't get quieter. I would move off AJ Brown
because you're so good at running back, O line, quarterback,
tight end and Devonte Smith. I think that's an easy one.
(08:21):
But but you don't want to think like a fan.
But I think people will look at AJ Brown and go,
he's so good. It's wide receiver you can find. Really,
Puku Naku is a fifth rounder. I mean, there's one
or two positions in the NFL cornerback, wide receiver, running back.
It's amazing how much talent there is in the fourth round. Like,
there's all sorts of examples. So like I look at
(08:42):
Philadelphia and Howie Roseman, who, by the way, you know
the organization. He said after the Super Bowl, this is
gonna look different. Not everybody's gonna love it. So to me,
that was that was a little bit of a caution.
Guys were moving off some popular talented guys. You don't
say that if you just have to cut Dare Slay.
That's an easy one that nobody's losing sleep on.
Speaker 3 (09:04):
Yeah, to me, the AJ Brown one would only be
if they feel that relationship that Brandon Graham kind of
let the cat out of the bag and then they
tried to walk it back. It's like, come on, but
you know, winning cures all in their relationship. I mean,
he had a touchdown in the playoffs. He is when
when healthy, one of the best what four or five
six wide receivers in the league. I think the only
(09:25):
way they would do something like that would be to
clear up some movement. If they could get Miles Garrett
and by all accounts, they are going to be one
of the lead dogs in those moves. So I think
the thing was Zach Vaughn. This is what makes Howie
and I would just say, consistent football teams maintain it
or not. It's like, yeah, he's a good guy, he
had an incredible season, but are we going to break
(09:48):
the bank for a linebacker? And his history would say
the Eagles and good teams do not.
Speaker 2 (09:54):
That's right, right.
Speaker 3 (09:54):
Let someone else give you four years, eighty million dollars
and forty five million dollars guaranteed. And this is why
you keep drafting and why you keep investing in it.
And listen, part of being a good NFL team takes
some luck. Sometimes you got a guy one year, four
million dollars, first team All Pro. That's why you pay
Vic Fangio five six million dollars. You know that's last year.
(10:16):
He looked at this guy, special teamer, kind of outside linebacker.
Let's make him a middle linebacker under my tutelage, Patrick
Willis Navarro Bowman, let's roll. So if I was Howie,
I'd go, well, my return on investment is not the player,
it's the coach. Why couldn't I do this again. Why
can't we find a guy in the draft, maybe on
the second day, second or third round. Let fang, you
(10:37):
mold him like a piece of clay. He did it
with Navarro Bowman. Why couldn't he That's the best case scenario.
But no one in a million years in the NFL
would have said, Zach Bond first Team All Pro middle linebacker.
No chance. And that's that, you know football more than
all these other sports. The power of these coordinators, if
you get it right, I mean, look at Spagnola, look
at some of the offensive coordinators over the years, can.
Speaker 2 (10:59):
Chase your franchise.
Speaker 3 (11:01):
It's right because it's you're not paying them player money,
You're paying them four five, six million dollars.
Speaker 2 (11:05):
It's amazing to me how fans really really struggle and
and like to me, aj Brown and Bonner the linebacker
are pretty easy moves because I'm not going to disrupt
that O line probably for the next three years. I'm
I mean, I'm that O line. Maybe in two to
(11:27):
three years Lane Johnson retires, but the core of that
organization to me is now Saquon Jalen Hurts and that
O line. Everything else. To me, I'll move, but you're
finding this with Detroit. It's really I mean, think how
great people thought Dak was. I mean people really thought
Dak was a top five quarterback when the Cowboys o
line five years ago, those guys were all closer to
(11:48):
their prime. Now we look up and go, Jesus, Dak's
the most overpaid guy in the NFL by a long shot.
So you know, I just think when I when I
look at like when Tyreek Hill, Andy Reid moved off him,
I never forget the day it happened. I was like, yeah,
of course you move off him, like you got look
at the Pickstate guy at the time. I'm like, first round,
(12:09):
second round, second round. I'm like Brett Fiach is going
to hit on at least half of these. Of course
you make the move. He's a deep threat. Those guys
don't mean much in December and January when it's freezing
and windy. So I mean, the AJ Brown one is easy.
I'll go back to it. When a receiver Deebo is
a prime example, when they start getting outspoken early, that
doesn't go backwards and you're and by the way, you
(12:32):
won with him. You got to a couple of Super Bowls,
Like I also think there at some point in a
salary cap sport players become commodities and there's just you
have to move them. They're chess pieces, and you say, well,
where's the humanity? Come on, we all know the game here.
This is the way it is with pro sports. By
the way, in college now, kids leave their program all
(12:54):
the time. They make promises, they commit, they leave. We
all know this is how the game works.
Speaker 3 (13:00):
One thing with AJ two, if that would be something
they wanted to do, he still has a lot of value.
He's still one of the best players in the league.
I mean, you're not just kicking him away like Debo
for a fifth round pick. It might bring you back
like a second and a third. Yeah right, I don't
know if you could get I mean they traded a
first form, could they get a late first. I mean
some of those teams don't have the most cap room,
(13:21):
but you definitely probably get a second and a third. Yep,
you know, depends. I think there's always other moves. He's
not just getting rid of a player to get rid
of a player. You know that Milton Williams, the defensive
tackle that really came on. They would love to keep.
But guys like that are he's gonna get twenty million
dollars a year, That's right, So I think they're always
thinking the one thing the Eagles have been like since
(13:42):
before I got there and ever since long after I left,
they will go big game hunting. I'm telling you, if
Miles Garrett this is the Browns can say all they want,
we're not moving on and listen. I would understand if
you're a well run, competitive team, but given the Deshaun's situation,
this is the time to just blow the thing up.
And to me, he would net you multiple first round picks.
(14:04):
So if that, if he's available, I think the Eagles
would be front and center with the package of things
that they would put in front of them to the
land that player and their owner. And how you manipulate
the salary gap is you pay these insane bonus right right,
If everyone plays under the same umbrella of the cap,
but I can cut you a bigger signing bonus, then
that's where guys sign up for.
Speaker 2 (14:25):
Yeah, And for the record, fans tend to think all
these owners are even No, they're not. Stan Cronk, Jeffrey Lewie.
The Denver Broncos can pay more upfront than a majority
of the teams. I mean, the Chicago Bears are just
not an organization. I mean, the Packers have to get
everything a boot approved. The Bears don't have that kind
of money historically. So there was a moment this weekend
(14:48):
Jerry Jones canceled his interview at the NFL Combine. And
the Cowboys have had a rough couple of years. I mean,
they gave away a fourth round pick for Trey Lance.
He couldn't beat out Cooper Rush. I mean, if Kyle
Shanahan can make a quarterback accurate, he's not accurate. They
gave up a fourth round pick for a Jonathan Mingo,
the wide receiver five catches for the Cowboys, and again
(15:08):
both those moves, you know, we all kind of went. Meanwhile,
the Commanders gave up a fifth round pick for Deebo Samuel.
And it's really interesting as I look at Washington, not
just because of the result, but between Adam Peters, Cliff
(15:29):
dan Quinn, that move for Debo Jaden Daniels, and I
don't think, like a lot of times there's recency bias.
I honestly believe for the next decade, Washington is going
to be one of the three best NFC teams. And
I think, what's happening with the Cowboys Now they're becoming
(15:50):
the old Al Davis Raiders. They feel like they are honestly,
they are lost at sea. I mean they are giving
away picks now. I mean people don't understand. They may
re work Dax contract. It's a ninety million dollar cap
(16:12):
hit that is over double Josh Allen. They can rework
it all they want to. What fifty eight I said
this a year ago. I said they're going to start
a decade of regression. It has happened so fast in
this league. Shit goes south so fast. What did you
make of the debo only giving up a fifth round pick?
Speaker 3 (16:34):
Well, to me, you just look at the free agent
class and you go, well, we don't want to get
in any long because the whole thing was Washington has
all this cap space, they need some more weapons for Jayden.
And you look around you go, well, NFL free agency
is the most overrated thing because high end guys never
make it, and the guys that do you have to
pay an absolute premium to get. Remember a couple of
years ago, Christian Kirk got like four years, ninety million dollars.
(16:57):
He actually turned out to be okay. But you have
to pay, you know, elite money for those guys, so
I can get debo on a year to year contract.
I have all this space. All I have to give
up is a fifth round pick, and in the nil era, fifth, sixth,
seventh round picks feel like diminished and watered down. I
also think you get a guy who's a little motivated.
People are calling him fat, you know, a little like
(17:18):
Luca style. Adam Peters knows the guy well. Cliff Kingsbury.
You know, when you think back to Arizona, they used
a lot of gadget players. Rondell Moore, the Purdue guy,
different type player, but guys you can get behind the
line of scrimmage. You know. I actually think it's a
good scheme fit. He has excelled when they've had a
route running wide receiver on the opposite side. Terry McLaurin,
(17:40):
Brandon Nayuk to me, if you get a motivated Debo,
it's a no brainer. We have all this cap space.
I give him seventeen. All I have to give up
is a fifth round pick. And if you're the forty
nine ers, you weren't gonna pay him seventeen million dollars
here in a couple of weeks. So it's I think
it's kind of a win win. The Niners are moving off,
they don't have to eat any of the money. They
trade to a team where the general was around, not
(18:01):
only drafting him, but his good and bad moments, so
knows his personality. Because the other thing, I mean, you've
been saying it forever. Why you see it's gonna be
a little moodie. I mean they got a little like
Hollywood actor to him. They need to be you just
you have to know their personality. It's very rare to
get like a Larry Fitzgerald. Most guys are more debo.
And Adam Peters knows this player really well. And I
(18:22):
think the Jerry Jones thing. How often in any business
that if the eighty year old patriarch of the operation
is around and his name's not Warren Buffett and Berkshire Hathaway,
is it a healthy place to be when the guy's hovering,
he's made an ungodly amount of money, he does not
need to be there, and he's extra hands on. So Jered,
(18:44):
you could argue Jerry's ego feels like it's only grown.
As they've quote unquote struggled over the last decade relative
to some of their big seasons, and they've underwhelmed in
the playoffs. It doesn't feel like Jerry's gone. You know what,
I'm gonna let Steven and Will McKay and my coach
take a bigger role. I'm just I'm just going to
be more of a figurehead. He always doubles down. I'm
(19:07):
cutting the check. My name's on that bad boy. I'm involved.
I'm a football guy, and he's not wrong. I mean,
he played college football, he's been around his whole life.
But unlike a lot of football guys, Jerry is addicted
to business. Yeah, and the business of his team is
marketing and all that. And it's just there's just a
lot going on with the Cowboys, and you know, Micah Parsons.
Speaker 2 (19:28):
You talk about Dak's cappit.
Speaker 3 (19:30):
If they do give Mike a new deal and don't
trade them, what's that deal? One hundred and fifty million
dollars guaranteed for quarterback contract?
Speaker 2 (19:36):
Brudal No.
Speaker 3 (19:37):
I mean, so they're in three guys at a combine
what like five hundred million dollars?
Speaker 2 (19:41):
Crazy? I mean, I just you can't have three different
players top of the market when only one of them,
Ce d Lamb is top five at his position in
the NFL. It's like, I mean, it's I had a
very good year last year, predicting, very bad year, picking
(20:02):
individual games, very good year, you know, picking teams. I
got Washington and Denver and some of the upstarts. This year,
I think New England is going to be a surprise
playoff team. I think the Jets are going to go
sideways a little bit. They don't have a quarterback. I
think Miami I kind of think they've topped out a
little bit. All the motion and the tricks and smoking mirrors.
(20:24):
I think there's limitations there. I think New England's going
to be in play. And my other one is I
think Dallas is potentially a five or six win team
with Brian Schottenheimer. I mean, I have the good news
is it's a good quarterback draft. I have to go
out and get one if I was Dallas this year.
In fact, I think I heard Stephen Jones say this.
I had another person tell me who I respect. Keep
(20:48):
your eye on Kyle McCord out of Syracuse in the
late second round. Do not be shocked if the Dallas
Cowboys do go after Kyle McCord of Syracuse US Now
they're not late second. I think Dallas made trade down
in the second round to get a mid second pick.
I am hearing more and more, and I went and
(21:10):
watched him about a month ago. Kyle McCord throws a
really nice ball, and I thought about this if he
had stayed, because Will Howard completed sixty one percent of
his throws at Kansas State. He goes to Ohio State
and complete seventy three percent of his throws. If you
don't think that matters. If if Kyle McCord stays at
Ohio State with Jeremiah Smith and Ibuka and the two
(21:33):
NFL running backs, and Kyle McCord, who's a much better
pro prospect than Will Howard, it's not even. It's not
Will Howard is like late fifth, sixth. In fact, somebody
today texts me in the NFL he thinks after the
combine he's a seventh round pick.
Speaker 3 (21:49):
I think he had a bad combine.
Speaker 2 (21:51):
Oh bad. I think I think Kyle McCord is going
to end up being as good as any quarterback in
that draft. This is my the hottest take is that
he'll be the guy tell me I'm wrong.
Speaker 3 (22:04):
Well, I think yeah. I watched a couple of Syracuse
games this season and went, this is the guy that
Ryan Day because let's face it, they blamed him for
the Michigan loss two years ago and he got kicked out,
and so I listen, I believed him. I was like, hey,
this guy, if he can't make it there, maybe they're right.
And then you watch them at Syracuse, who had their
best season in a while. He was spinning. He's got
(22:25):
a big arms guy spiral. I think him and Jackson
Dart because there are so many question marks with the
top two guys with Cam and Chador. If you're talking
about two guys you have the draft in the top
I don't know one guy in the top five, the
other guy in the top twelve. You can get these
two guys. Historically, McCord is not going to be a
first round pick, but even Jackson Dart would also have
(22:46):
been a second round pick. You could find the Derek Carrs,
the Jimmy Garoppolos, these guys that can start for you,
and if you do a good job building your team,
you can win with I think The problem for the
Cowboys is, if you look at the Dak Era, they
really only had to deal with the Eagles, but he
just kind of went back in over the last ten years,
right with Doug Peterson and then Sirianni Era. Well, now
it's not just the Eagles, it's Washington too. So you
(23:07):
add another team because Washington up until last year was
a joke. The Giants have been terrible for what a
decade plus, So now the Cowboys don't just have to
deal with the Eagles, they have to deal with Washington.
I mean, that's that's a huge problem. And even if
they do draft mccor Jackson Dart whoever, let's say they
draft a second round pick that does nothing for them
in twenty twenty five and honestly does nothing for them
(23:30):
the next couple of years. That guy's they're kind of
just hoping to get their Jordan Love, which is good
big picture team building, but it does not help them
trying to beat the Eagles or Washington in Week seven,
when you're three and three and your season kind of
feels like it's teetering.
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Speaker 2 (25:13):
All right, he's one of my favorite guests, and it's
a perfect time to get him. Marcus Thompson right for
the Athletic. He's the author of the book Golden KD
and Dynasties Really Plugged in. I you know, it's it's
the Warrior's got a lot of good people covering him.
I think Marcus does as good a job as anybody
that covers a team in the country in any sport,
and he is joining us. I mean, it's so funny
(25:37):
because I watched a lot of Warriors basketball, and in
my job, I got to watch a lot of stuff.
But you know, I just got into a habit, you know,
for ten years of watching the Warriors, and I made
a comment, I'm like, man, when Steph is off the floor,
this is pre Jimmy Butler. I'm like, this is a
boring ass team. This is a bad watch. And I said,
I'd bring in Jimmy Butler just for energy and he'll
(26:00):
just get everybody all worked up. So were you in
when you heard Jimmy was coming? Were you in the
it may not work camp, it'll work kind of camp,
or it'll be sensational camp.
Speaker 5 (26:13):
Which camp were you in? I might be at all three.
To be honest with you, I might. I might have
been in all three. You know it was it was difficult.
I will say this up front. I didn't expect this.
Speaker 1 (26:26):
I didn't expect like I mean, like, the one thing
that's underscore for me, I love Andrew Wiggins. I think
Andrew Wiggins is a really good NBA player, especially who
he's become with the Warriors.
Speaker 2 (26:39):
He's like a testament. So if you put him.
Speaker 1 (26:41):
In a right situation, right, he'll be great for you.
Like he probably shouldn't be the a one of a franchise, right,
but if you put him in a good situation, he's great.
Like he's a great teammate, plays hard Colin. There's a
difference between an All Star and the Superstar. These teams
are categorically different, and because of all the drama that
(27:05):
was going down in Miami, and you know, even how
Miami was like a middleague kind of team over these
last couple of years, I forgot that Jimmy Butler is
a superstar. That to me is the thing cognitively if
you said, yeah, you put another superstar next to Steph
like that that's what he needs. But watching him with Jimmy,
(27:28):
it reminds.
Speaker 2 (27:29):
You like, no, Jimmy is one of them once, like.
Speaker 1 (27:32):
He's he's a bit of a side show sometimes, but
like he's one of those guys and it's instant. And
the crazy part is he didn't even have to play well. Yeah,
he doesn't even have to play well, and you could.
Speaker 2 (27:43):
He's not shooting well right now, He's.
Speaker 1 (27:45):
Not even taking his shots. Jimmy lives mid range. He's
he's going he's going to the elbow and rising up.
He's not doing any of that. He's just on the court.
And by virtue of being Jimmy Butler on the court,
he will punish you if you let him, and if
you don't, then Steph will punish you.
Speaker 2 (28:05):
So like that's the thing.
Speaker 1 (28:06):
Like the moment he got there, you could feel the vibe.
Speaker 2 (28:10):
Shanes just by him being there.
Speaker 1 (28:12):
Like he shows up in his Alo sweatsuit at the
Laker game. He didn't even sit on a bench, none
of the things. You'd expect this dude to come in
and be like, all right, I'm part of this thing.
He just came in as Jimmy and to shas everything.
And I was like, heyo, I didn't see that, Like
I didn't see that happening in a way like it did.
Speaker 2 (28:33):
Right. He's also I've used the word, he's a very
intentional player, like possessions matter. He doesn't waste possessions. I
always thought sometimes Wiggins could be a little bit of
a floater. He would waste possessions. You weren't quite sure
if he was on the floor. Jimmy's got more of
a presence. He's more intentional. He gets to the free
throw line, and you know, it also underscores something. And
(28:55):
I've seen this with Lebron, with Luca is when you're
on a treadmill to nowhere. This is a long season
and it's hard to get guys like Steph or Lebron
fired up for an eight seed, right you give them.
I said this, It's like Lebron and Steph have a
new buddy in the neighborhood they want to show off
to and they're just I mean, Steph's averaging like six
(29:18):
more points. You only take one more shot. So I
think it. You know, in football, you got eight home games.
You know, it's it's very urgent. It's hard for these
guys who are at the mountaintop to get fired up
for you know, a playing team. I feel like Steph is.
This is one of these unintended benefits of making a
trade with a great player. The great player drives to
(29:42):
the arena, ready to show off, ready to perform. And
you know now that the honeymoon, the new car smell
may wear off. But there is something to be said
about the fit. Hell, Kuminga is not playing what when
you watch When you watch Butler analytically, there were questions
(30:02):
if he'd fit. Do you think he's more valuable on
offense or defense? Right now? Right now?
Speaker 1 (30:09):
Offense definitely, I mean by virtue of he's impacting one
of the greatest offensive weapons in the history of sports
in the way he is right, you can see it.
Steph is a different dude. That's a monster. It's so crazy.
He said it, and I didn't know it till I
looked it up. The day they traded him, Steph took
(30:32):
thirty six shots and then the next day he took
thirty two. It was the first time in his career
he taking thirty shots in back to back games. He'd
never done that before, and Jimmy hadn't even played yet.
Just the fact that we got Jimmy, now let's turn up.
So the fact that Jimmy has that impact on Steph,
to me, brings that to it because you're right, like
(30:55):
the part that's so very viscerally. They just were not
good before. I mean they were, they were it was boring.
They got guys who just don't go into the paint.
Jimmy's message now is like, hey, you see what they're
doing to Steph. Just going to the paint. It's wide open.
As a matter of fact, I'm going to show you.
(31:16):
Just throw it down to me in the paint like
I'm not doing anything else. I'm going to the rim.
And you could see them saying, hey, that's kind of working.
But without that, they're just chucking threes. They aren't really
very good, and it was it was just draining life
out of Steph. So to me that that part has
been such a jot, like they're they're like a top
(31:39):
five offensive defense with Jimmy, but they were bad, offensively
bad and bad and boring, like it's a bad combo. Right,
you don't want to be bad and boring.
Speaker 2 (31:51):
So you wrote that article on the suffering MAVs fans.
Do you think when Cuban Cuban sold the team? Mark
has a pretty good sense of business timing and exit strategy? Absolutely,
why do you think? Why do you think Cubans sold?
(32:13):
I tend to think everything Mark's again Mark. Mark is
very good at seeing around corners. I can disagree with
him sometimes on loving NFTs and Bitcoin or politics or
whatever it is, but it's it just feels like Cuban
sold the team and it hasn't felt the same since
he sold it.
Speaker 1 (32:36):
You know the fact, Like when he sold it, I thought,
is this a Vegas move? Are you sell it to
the Vegas billionaire the Adamson family, right, the wife of
the famous you know, Vegas casino guy, the one who
got foleece by Mark Davis? Ily enough for the Raiders,
(32:57):
But I thought, is this a vague gets moved? And
one of the things that I've learned from Joe Lacup
and the whole A's the Bacca is. You know, Oakland
has lost its teams, and it's all boils down to
you got to be ready to spend one point five
to two billion dollars own the stadium.
Speaker 2 (33:14):
Yep. You just have to be able to do that.
Speaker 1 (33:16):
And if you're not ready to do that, now you're
relying on your local municipality to come up with the money.
Speaker 2 (33:22):
And I'm like, I'm.
Speaker 1 (33:24):
Thinking, cubansaw, do I want to spend a two billion
dollar stadium or cash out and get my billions?
Speaker 2 (33:31):
Right?
Speaker 1 (33:32):
It's the opposite move of what John Fisher did with
the A's sell the team to get billions or No.
Now he's playing in like a high school stadium in
Sacramento because they don't want to say it like that.
Speaker 2 (33:44):
That's what I thought.
Speaker 1 (33:46):
I don't think at any point he thought Luca was
going to be traded.
Speaker 2 (33:50):
You know why? You know why he didn't think that.
Speaker 1 (33:52):
Because you don't trade Luca ever, at least you don't
do it at twenty five years old, right, So I
wouldn't be surprised if Cuban knew that it's going to
be tough to get the stadium we need because remember
he remember when he bought that team, and he was right.
It was like, oh, they got the new fancy the lockers,
(34:12):
and they treat the players top not like like you
gotta be top notch now, and that's two billion dollars.
That's two billion dollars. You just gotta have two billion dollars.
I think he saw it might be tough to get
a stadium. Let me sell it. Let me let me
take the profit instead of digging a bigger hole. And
if that means the team goes to Vegas like that,
(34:35):
it's off my hands, so to speak.
Speaker 2 (34:37):
That's the best I can think of. But I agree
with you.
Speaker 1 (34:40):
One Cuban saw this seven steps away.
Speaker 2 (34:45):
He was on it. I'll throw my Lebron theory at you.
Lebron has always avoided a mess. So he leaves Cleveland.
He plays in the Olympics and he's like, man, I
got to play with good players. Dan Snyder can't get me.
He goes to Miami four finals, Wade and Boshed, especially
Wade is struggling to play back to backs. He bails.
(35:06):
He's right. He goes to Cleveland, gets the title. Kyrie's like,
I don't want to be here. We're maxed out. He
leaves a second time. This time everybody's good with it.
He goes to the Lakers. People love Lonzo Ball, Kyle Kuzma.
He didn't. He got rid of him. Brings in a
D eighty was great. And I believe Lebron realized as
(35:28):
he aged about two years ago that he could not
be on every possession every night the lead initiator, and
Austin Reeves is more of a three or a four
than a two. And so I think he was looking
for Steph two years ago. Oh and he made overteers
overtures and went back channels with Steph and stuff's like, man,
(35:48):
I'm good here. And then I think he was interested
in Yoka, and I think it happened to be like, hey,
do you want to come here. It's that that trial
was part of conversation. How about yep, you could be here.
He knew Jokic could also make the game easier for him.
Denver's not interested. And I think when Cuban sold the Mavericks,
(36:08):
I think Lebron went back channels thought to himself, here's
the moment I'm going to make sure he knows I
like him a lot. I think eventually he made it
known upstairs, guys, I'm getting older. I cannot play forty minutes.
I love ad to death, but I can't be the
play initiator every damn time down the floor. I can't
(36:30):
do it. I mean there are times now when you
watch him now Austin Reeves hasn't played in a couple
of games. When Luca and Austin are there together, I mean,
it's like Lebron's a scott a smile on his face.
He just he's floating in the wing. It's and by
the way, he's got absolutely But I do think. I think,
(36:51):
and this is not a criticism, I think Lebron's the
smartest player in league history, arguably in a short list.
I think he's calculated. And the idea that he just
woke up one day and went, well, what do you know,
we got Luca the perfect teammate. I don't buy that.
I just I mean, Marcus, I'm not a tenfoil hot guy.
(37:11):
But Lebron is too smart, he's too much of a businessman.
I think he made he let everybody know Luca is
the target. You think I'm nuts, I don't.
Speaker 1 (37:23):
I just wonder how you keep that quiet, because one
thing le Bron hasn't been great at is keeping all
this stuff quiet. So Okham's razor come into play. What's
more likely that Lebron pulled this from behind the string,
which I'm not saying is off the table, or Nico
Harrison was like, I got the move.
Speaker 2 (37:43):
That's gonna make me a legend.
Speaker 1 (37:45):
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (37:46):
Yeah, they're both kind of wild. Did he really just
do this though?
Speaker 1 (37:52):
Did Nicos just decide, you know what, I'm gonna call
Rob p Linka, We're gonna make this happen. That's almost
as crazy.
Speaker 2 (38:06):
What did you make in New York watching them? What
do you make of the next Nixon? Nix?
Speaker 1 (38:11):
Is just disappointment. I'm I'm gonna give a pass because
Towns wasn't not there. But for a team that can't
shoot threes, they sure a jack at a lot. But I
don't like their will at the end, and I wonder,
I wonder if Thibodeaux has worn them down.
Speaker 2 (38:22):
They they they their will on the defensive end. Has
this it has? It can't just be Hartenstein. They're just
not as good.
Speaker 1 (38:33):
You can you can break them defensively, and that's that's
gonna be troubling. Now again, playoff basketball is different. It's
half court. The half court's matchup base. But I'm wondering,
what are their legs like, like what what is what
is their psyche like? After what is this year three,
year four of TIBs And I don't know.
Speaker 2 (38:55):
It's like it's Gi Santos.
Speaker 1 (38:57):
It was g Santo's cooking there, Like we're not talking
about like Staffle's cooler, like Jimmy Butler was okay. But
they're getting out worked by guys who should be in
the G League. They their will just breaks sometimes, like
if you watch Knicks, they just they just decide to
give up and then it's like Brunsley, go save us.
So I don't I mean, obviously Boston and Cleveland are
(39:19):
at the top. But I'll tell you this, if I'm
New York, I don't want them Pistons in the first round.
I'll tell you that much. You know, you don't want
to see them Pistons in the first round. That that young,
hungry team full of athletes who willing to fight. Yeah, nah,
I don't know if they have the will. So again,
they didn't have Town, so that's something. But I'm I'm
(39:40):
worried about the Knicks team. I'm not quite steven A.
Smith Lever worried, but I'm worried about the Knicks team.
Speaker 2 (39:46):
Well, I've watched them play Boston twice, and I've watched
one of the Cleveland games and they attacked Karl Anthony
Towns in the pick and roll. I mean, they just
attack them. I don't know.
Speaker 1 (39:56):
Towns is not going to solve this problem in the playoffs. No,
they might be able to score more, which will help
you get some teams. But if it's talented, Yeah, he's talented, Yeah,
no question, he'll he'll go out and get you some
buckets in the playoffs and he'll he'll create some moments.
But like this team, you know, if they get either
(40:17):
Boston or Cleveland in the second round, I just don't know.
And they have to get they have to get one
of them.
Speaker 2 (40:23):
Right, Yeah, they just don't match. Cleveland is so effic
Cleveland and Boston are the two best teams in the league.
They can defend the rim, they can defend the perimeter.
They've got scoring guards, they've got scoring wings. They they're
both efficient. Yeah, yeah, it's I always if Derek White
is it's some night's the fifth best player on your team.
That is a that it's almost like they you know,
(40:47):
with the new taxes and the new ceilings and the
the way it works in April all the second apron Ship.
It's like Boston for about two years beat it. They've
got a roster that you couldn't build right now, but
they kind of grandfathered it in and they just got
too many good players.
Speaker 1 (41:05):
Yeah. In Cleveland, man, that DeAndre Hunter trade was like unfair.
Speaker 2 (41:11):
They were already really good.
Speaker 1 (41:12):
They's got another And that's the thing about all these
guys like that, you got to be able to guard wings.
And you look like you just listened like four people
of Boston who gu guard wings. Cleveland just added up
another guy. They've got guys who could guard wings. That
to me is gonna be like I'm not putting Oklahoma
City in there yet because I want to see them
in the playoffs guard wings or guard the explosive point guard.
Speaker 2 (41:35):
Like.
Speaker 1 (41:35):
They've got the bodies, they got the the stats right,
they write pretty well defensively. Playoffs are different, Monster, It's
just different.
Speaker 2 (41:44):
It's just and this Cleveland team, you've had Donovan Mitchell
and Evan Mobley. You know last year they kind of
disappointed us. Oklahoma City feels like Cleveland last year. Yea
really impressive but not quite ready to go on the
road and give you a plus play stuff from from
role players on the road. I think Cleveland's ready to
do that now. Mobley just Mobley's better every year.
Speaker 1 (42:06):
Yeah, and and again they've added the upgrade pieces to
like they didn't just run it back with the same team.
Speaker 2 (42:13):
And that's that's what we're gonna see about. Okay.
Speaker 1 (42:15):
See, maybe Shaye is just that good where he figured
it out like he felt it. They lost to Dallas,
they went to work and got better. Maybe he's enough
and Jalen Williams is enough next to him. I just
want to see it first because experience matters a lot.
Speaker 2 (42:34):
Man.
Speaker 1 (42:34):
It's just the playoffs are a different monster. Like if
they get Yokic. I love Chick Holgren. What is he
doing with Nikola Jokic, Like, that's that's just gonna be
a tough like you have to fight, You got to
fight out of that series. You know, Jamal Murray shows up,
it's over. He'll always show up. But what he does,
it's pretty good. Right, So that and russy, Like you
(42:56):
have to fight to get out the West. So I'm
curious about how all the kind of fight Oklahoma City have.
If they got it, they should, they should be in
the finals. If not, it's gonna be a long off
season for Sam Presty because he's got like a bounty
of stuff. That's like, at some point you probably need
to cash in all these assets you're so famous for
and get something, right, go go go get you honest.
(43:19):
Then if if you can't win, like go do something
with all that's who that's where Lucas should be.
Speaker 2 (43:26):
I'm like, hey, give me all that stuff for Luca.
Speaker 1 (43:28):
That's right, he should be in Oklahoma City with my
seven picks, three young players and defensive stoppers and all
that that, like, if they got to win. Otherwise, Sam
Presty needs to go in and cash in that winning
ticket he's got, or the winning tickets.
Speaker 2 (43:44):
Well, I mean every other NBA draft is you know,
fairly talentless. This past draft. It just there's not a
lot there. So like you can have all these draft picks,
but what you have to do is when you get
that every third draft, when it's really deep, when you
go all in and then then I mean, I couldn't
tall the last time we had great back to back drafts.
That's just not the way it works anymore. You get
like a good one, a bad one, a moderate one,
(44:07):
a good one. So I think, okay, I think Presty's sharp.
You know, it's I worry about Homegron long term, his body.
But they got waves of players. Do you want to
see KDE back there? It's interesting Jmack on my show today.
I don't know if it's a very attractive place for KD.
But I will say this, I don't know his relationship
(44:28):
with Presty. If you're asking me if there's a dude
that works, it's Oklahoma City and KD because he doesn't
need the ball. He is catch and shoot and SGA
needs the ball. So yeah, I mean, I'd catching a
lot of chips. That's it'd be a two year experiment.
But Jesus him homegrown Sga Williams, Jesus, that is a
(44:50):
lot of buckets.
Speaker 1 (44:51):
That's a lot of buckets, a lot of fin buckets too.
Speaker 2 (44:57):
Marcus Thompson, great senior man. Love seeing you. Likewise, likewise,
it's hard out here in the streets.
Speaker 1 (45:04):
I got my new assignment I'm covering figure skating World
Championships for the Athletic.
Speaker 2 (45:13):
I am an accomplished Olympic writer.
Speaker 1 (45:16):
Now, Colin, I was in Paris covering track and field
and now I'm going figure skating. Can you imagine me
at the figure skating I'm in this thing. I'm out
here college.
Speaker 2 (45:27):
Wow. Good for you. Well you're a great writer. So
you've got the ability to do different, different things. I'm
taking advantage of it now. I'm looking forward to this.
So yeah, yeah, let's go up.
Speaker 1 (45:37):
Next time, we're going to talk about with the quad
God in advance of the winter.
Speaker 2 (45:43):
I can't promise you that for the Athletic. The very
talented Marcus Thompson, Thanks buddy, thanks for having me, my guy,
Host
Colin Cowherd
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