The Favorites - NFL Coaching and The Masters with Kevin Clark

The NFL is evolving. The Draft is approaching. So too is "A Tradition Unlike Any Other." Here to discuss everything from Cam Ward's draft stock to best bets at The Masters is beloved ESPN media personality Kevin Clark, host of Omaha Productions' THIS IS FOOTBALL. He joins Action Network hosts Chad Millman and Simon Hunter for a lively conversation about changes taking place among NFL head coaches, plus all the latest happenings in Augusta. . #Volume #herd

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:08):
Welcome to the Favorites of the Podcast presented by BET
three sixty five. We are part of the Volume podcast Network.
I am Chad Millman of the Action Network. Today I'm
joined as always by my co host, my companion, my Campadre,
my BFF, professional Better, Simon Hunter Eero Simon.

Speaker 2 (00:28):
Hello, Chad, What a weekend we had?

Speaker 1 (00:30):
Huh, brother, listen, I know you're just rolling out of bed.
Were in You were in Atlantic City playing poker in
a tournament till all hours. I was in Florida, which
I believe is the home state of our guest coming

(00:50):
up this weekend, at a wedding in Miami, and then
I went to Palm Beach for the day for a
project that I'm working on. In the wedding, this was
like right out of a commercial. This was a wedding.
A lot of people like to gamble at this wedding,
very high class affair in Miami, but it's a big

(01:15):
gambling crowd, really big gambling crowd. And at the wedding,
of course, during the speeches and even when everyone was
dancing during dinner, there were four or five different phones
in between two different people showing first the Florida Auburn

(01:39):
game and then the Duke Houston game, and the number
of people sweating that total for the Duke Houston game,
so many people had the under one thirty seven and
a half I think or over one thirty six and

(01:59):
a half. It was landing right on that number. It
was super exciting.

Speaker 3 (02:05):
Now those are the best.

Speaker 4 (02:06):
There's the best, especially where if you're in on it
and you hear loud moans across the crowd, you know
everyone's looking at the same thing. It has nothing to
do with the wedding. It's everyone just on theirs.

Speaker 1 (02:16):
And there was this was There were a lot of
gambling UH industry people at this wedding, including at my
table were people representing I think three different sports books
as well as an original investor in action like when
it was just not even a company yet, and a

(02:37):
guy who runs a uh A venture fund that is
focused on the betting space. So everybody had very specific needs.
It was. It was really really funny.

Speaker 4 (02:49):
Yeah, I thought I was preactioning the whole markets crashing,
but all sports book stocks were up because Duke lost.
So that was a pretty interesting tell of that. Uh,
that's how big of a deal it was for duke
to lose these sportsbooks and they some money off the
college basketool.

Speaker 1 (03:01):
That's right, and we guess what We enter into another
very special week for gamblers, an annual right of spring,
a tradition unlike any other. And last night for the finals,
we saw Jim Nantz as a fan of Houston getting
ready prime in his pipes for the Masters. It is

(03:24):
Masters Week, Masters t He's off Thursday morning from Augusta,
one of America's most hallowed sporting events, always one of
the best, most popular sporting events on the entire spring calendar,
joining us to break it all down. He has become
one of the most familiar faces in modern sports media.
You could say he's like the archetype for modern sports media,

(03:48):
with the way he looks at sports, his focus on analytics,
his focus on the athletes who come on his very
popular podcast, how He's morphed and evolved as a media personality.
He's the host of the very popular show This Is Football.
You'll see him all over ESPN airwaves, including on First
Take later this week. He is also a very passionate

(04:11):
golf fan and appearing on ESPN's bet casts for Golf
Welcome to the show. Kevin Clark, what an intro?

Speaker 5 (04:21):
Thank you? Good right, thank you. I appreciate that. Yeah, no,
it's this is one of my favorite weeks of the year.
I like that and Chad, you and I've talked about this.
I love the golf gambling space. So the fact that
they get to go on this show. I'm going to
on ESPN Ben on Wednesday, Like I just everybody needs
to hear my bad takes. This needed to escape my
golf group chats and now we just need to break

(04:42):
contain and everybody has to hear it, including on some
of these broadcasts going forward.

Speaker 1 (04:45):
Yeah, it's going to be ugly. There's no doubt about it,
because there's no way when you're trying to pick from
the field you've got a good shot at being right.
The odds tell us that it's almost impossible. Like, sure,
you can pick Scotti, Scheffler, you can piss pick Rory McElroy.
I'm seeing likes. Scheffler's at plus four forty. Mceilroy is

(05:07):
at six to one, Moracas about Moricia is about fourteen
to one. D Shamboa is about fourteen to one. But
like those are the lame picks, and so we're going
to get to the good ones in the show. We're
also going to talk a lot of football. As a
reminder of the Favorites. Podcast is presented by Bet three
six five. New Bet three six five customers get one
hundred and fifty dollars in bonus bets when you bet

(05:28):
five dollars, sign up using promo code Favorites to posit
ten dollars. Place a bet for five dollars to get
one hundred and fifty dollars in bonus bets. Those bonus
bets can be used on spreads, totals, player props, futures,
and more. Whatever the moment, it's never ordinary at Bet
three to sixty five. Must be twenty one or older
in present in Arizona, Colorado, Indiana, Iowa, Illinois, Louisiana, North Carolina,

(05:50):
New Jersey, Ohio, Pennsylvania, Virginia, or eighteen and older in Kentucky.
Gambling problem called one eight hundred gambler or one eight
hundred bets off in Iowa terms conditioned restriction a plat
Kevin I just mentioned in the intro you are a
master of media, and to me, what's interesting about your

(06:11):
career truly is how you have morphed from beat writer
at the Journal, which to me, by the way, has
the best sports section in the country. I think the
people who write for the Wall Street Journal do the
most interesting stories. Robert O'Connell to me writing about the NBA,
he gets every story that I'm interested in in the moment.

(06:34):
I just think he's great. Explain the evolution for you
from beat reporter to analytics guy, which is a lot
of what you were doing at the Journal, and then
journal at Ringer and then a broad football analyst.

Speaker 5 (06:48):
Yeah. So I was covering the Dolphins when I was
in college for a paper in Fort Lauderdale. Got hired
when I was still in college by a friend of yours,
Chad sam Walker, and a commuted my last semester in
college from from New York to Miami as much as
I possibly could. I basically ran out of my diploma
and then mailed me a diploma anyway, like I think
I did the Bear. I would basically my pressor's like, listen,

(07:10):
I just give me, just give me a check list
here and I'll go through it, and somehow I have
a diploma, by the grace of God. And so I
started covering the Knicks as a twenty two, twenty three
year old that was there right before Karmelo Anthony came in.
And then Carmelo Anthony obviously made me a change the
tone of the beat. And what I realized was, I'm
with Francosola, I'm with Mark Berman, I'm with Alan Hahn,

(07:32):
and I've got sources but not like them. And so
I was such already an appreciate appreciator. That's a word
of analytics. But what I was starting to do was say, hey,
why don't I call up X y Z analytics person
and say, hey, this is the best way for Omari
and Carmelo to get together? That that kind of thing.
And I was getting a ton of attention through that, because,

(07:53):
first of all, the team notices, you know, the coaching
staff notices when you're doing this, the Anil Lakes stuff. This
is twenty eleven, when nobody's talking about this stuff. Nobody.
I mean, you remember, like it was happening in baseball,
it wasn't really happening in basketball. And so if you say, like,
I remember, I wrote a piece about how you know,
at one point the guys they traded for Carmelo, if

(08:15):
you just put them on one team had more wind
chares combined than the Carmelo team. Like that was getting traction.
And so I started to just go down that role,
that that rabbit hole as much as I could and
just figure out what guys are talking about. You get
end up getting sources within the organization because they care
about analytics or they want to tell you about it.
And so for me, it was just like a natural.

(08:37):
I always like when I was in college, it's the
Dolphins writer. I was number three guy, So you have
to just figure out your lane. Like, if you don't
figure out your lane, hey, you're not gonna get in
the paper. Be no one's gonna read you. And so
for me, I got into the analytics part of it
because I liked it, but be it was just the
way I could compete with Franko Sola and Mark Berman,
who who've had sources at MSG for for twenty five years.

(08:58):
And so then you get into the NFL beat and
it's the same thing nobody's talking about. I mean, I
remember there was a guy who told me this is
twenty twelve, that he was an early analytics guy in
the NFL, and there were like five analytics guys in
twenty twelve and that he had an office, and he
said to the coaching staff, he was like, hey, anytime

(09:19):
you have a question, coming here. I can run any
data set you need. I can tell you about play calling,
I can tell you about evaluation. I'm here, he said.
For months, months he was ignored, completely ignored. No coach
would engage with him, nobody had any questions. And then
one day im position coach comes in and says, I
have a question, and the guy perks up and he's
all right, here comes the analytics breakthrough, and the coach goes,

(09:40):
can you give us our record when we win the
turnover battle? Which is like the most like you could
probably in the back of a newspaper somewhere, but that
was their idea of analytics, is like win loss record
when you win the turnover battle. And I realized there
was a lot of untapped potential there where you have
these guys who no one's paying attention to the understand

(10:01):
the sport now. I never Football will never be like
baseball and basketball where you can explain the entire sport
through analytics. I still believe in toughness. I still believe
in things like running the ball and the running back position,
all that stuff. But like I just realized there was
no one was writing about this stuff, and you can
explain a lot of football through it. And so that's
just kind of how I did it. And then eventually
I kind of branched out started podcasting at the Ringer

(10:25):
did the omahas Pan thing a couple of years ago,
and so really it's all through the same vein, which
is like going going where it takes you right right
in the wave where it takes you, as Pearl Jam said,
and it's kind of everything's case by case, everything's the
next step. Okay, this podcasting is exploding. I'll do this.
It was never some grand plan. It was just this,
this makes sense.

Speaker 1 (10:43):
I'll go do this, don't you think though? When Simon,
I'm curious about your take on this as well, Analytics
to me in football has become so huge. Yeah, it's
getting harder and harder. You say it doesn't have the
same I'm not sure if I'm quoting you correctly here.

(11:06):
It can't be the same impact that baseball as it
has on baseball or basketball because there are a lot
of intangibles just about the way the game is played.
But it certainly isn't as increased fandom giving people a
different entry point into the game. But do you think
there are still edges to be found from an analytics

(11:26):
point of view or has that all been sliced and
diced in a way that is impossible to find a
new angle? Simon, you go first, since you've got to
think about this from a financial point of view.

Speaker 4 (11:39):
Yeah, I would say that what we've been talking about
a naigen about all these teams adjusting to the fourth down.
That's been to me the biggest adjustment in this league
where you know, chat we would joke back in the day,
I feel like Riverboat Ron Rivera was the one doing
it with Cam Newton, and it's like, you know, you
think back to that, that feels like a made up story,
like what Ron Rivera, that old dinosaur was going for

(12:02):
it on fourth down before everyone else.

Speaker 3 (12:05):
And you know, we saw a.

Speaker 4 (12:06):
Little bit with Belichick, but it really did feel like
Doug Peterson winning that Super Bowl kind of put it
on a different level of all these other teams were
just like, Okay, let's stop ignoring the nerd in the corner.

Speaker 3 (12:16):
Let's talk to this guy, because.

Speaker 4 (12:17):
Clearly the numbers do matter, and now I'm interested here
Kevin's you of it because I'm trying to think back
now to what first teams I remember doing it were
the Ravens an earlier adapter like, who were in your
mind where the first teams to really embrace it and
actually use as a good tool.

Speaker 5 (12:32):
Well, you're right for me. The conversation started after Belichick's
failed fourth down that Kevin Folk fourth and too, you know,
catches it and goes short of the goal line. I
remember talking to analyst guys, and he said, that's when
the debate started. That's when you're bringing on guys to
Sports Center to explain why that was a good idea,
Guys who had never been professor's analytics guys Aaron Schatz,

(12:55):
Guys who were never ever consulted on any of this stuff,
where all of a sudden on Sunday Countdown explaining why
it was good. The following week that started the conversation.
I agree with you, Doug Peterson changed something with his aggression,
and then all of a sudden, the Ravens, where it's
John Harball forward thinking because he has Lamar Jackson, realizes
that Lamar Jackson getting two yards is a really easy proposition,

(13:18):
and I think from there it goes. And I remember
talking to Neil Hornsby, who founded ProFootball Focus, and I said, what,
what in twenty years is going to be the bunt
of football? Like what are we going to look and be?

Speaker 4 (13:27):
Like?

Speaker 5 (13:27):
I can't believe they were giving up outs and he
was saying, it's the fourth and two, fourth and three
punt that's not basically in your own red zone unless
you're in your own red zone. Just go for it, right,
unless it's fourth and fourteen or whatever. And we're starting
to see that now the aggression there, whether that's the
you know, the tush push is basically automatic. But like
guys understand the short yardage stuff, they understand that getting

(13:50):
two yards is really really easy in this era and
passing the ball, and I doubt that's the one thing
what's funny about it is so I did a piece
with Dan Campbell a couple of years ago. He goes
for down all the time, as we know, and he
said he likes analytics, he embraces analytics, but it's gut
for him that he was with Sean Payton and he
wanted to scare defenses. And when Sean Payton would go

(14:13):
for it. He look over the other sideline and they're scrambling,
they're tearing their headsets off, their saying we don't have
the right personnel in and he's like, I want to
do that. And it's not about analytics, it's about seeing
the coach about to poop his pants. And then the
other part of it, and this is something that both
I've talked to Matt Laflora and Dan Campbell about. It's
not necessarily about getting three yards on fourth and two.

(14:34):
It's we can take a shot on fourth down. That's
part of it. Is like, what if we ran a
play action pass there was actually thirty yards down field
on fourth down? That adds an entirely new level. That's
not Frankie Luvu jumping over the goal line to try
to stop the toush push. That's we can score a
fifty yard touchdown on this play. So I think the aggression,
it's not just fourth down, it's the aggressiveness with which

(14:56):
they attack fourth down has changed football. And I completely
agree with what you're saying, Simon, But from an analytics standpoint,
I think we don't because it's such a secret sport.
Maybe baseball as this too. A lot of this is proprietary.
So like when tracking data came into football one I
had someone, an analytics source, let's call it, who told

(15:18):
me that there's a team that realized that they're big
defensive tackles who are three hundred and thirty pounds exert
almost all of the energy they exert running from sideline
to play running from sideline to play. So they realized
that in substitution situations they should always run the ball
to the far sideline of their opponent so that their

(15:40):
defensive linemen are always getting tired. So it's all it's
stuff like that, So you wouldn't think, oh, like analytics
is going to be this, no, no, no, Like you're finding
these little edges and you're just saying, hey, maybe this
will work, and maybe in the fourth quarter, we've made
the defensive tackles three hundred and twenty pounds run back
and forth of the sideline seventeen times. Now he can't
rush the past. It's little things like that that I

(16:02):
think are going to be revealed retroactively, kind of like
with baseball, we didn't know what was going on Moneyball
until Michael Lewis wrote it right we're going to find
out in ten years, Hey, this team was doing this,
There's no way I think they they. I think someone
referred to Hollie Roysman's analytics department with Alec Calbi as
like a black box, you know whatever, almost like the CIA,
Like they're probably doing stuff that would blow our minds.

(16:25):
But because it's proprietary, we'll find out in ten years
when they say, hey, you know what we're doing for
that team?

Speaker 4 (16:30):
XYS and I want to give I do want to
get a little love, Chad to one team that was
ahead of the curve, the nineteen.

Speaker 2 (16:36):
Eighty eight Dallas Carter Cowboys. Now do you know who
that is?

Speaker 3 (16:39):
Chad?

Speaker 1 (16:40):
Dallas Carter Cowboys were the team that beat I think
was it Permian High School?

Speaker 5 (16:46):
Yeah?

Speaker 1 (16:47):
In Friday Night Lights, which Simon, don't fucking challenge me.
I love Chow eighties sports writing, which is when I
decided I wanted to be a sports writer, and Friday
Night Lights was one of the books. So much so
in fact, that when Gene Hackman died a couple weekends ago,

(17:08):
I watched Choosers and the next movie that was served
to me was The Billy Bob Thornton Friday Night Lights movie.
So I just watched it like two weeks ago.

Speaker 2 (17:19):
Good Man. Yeah, I always think back of that though.

Speaker 4 (17:21):
It's like, how did this guy in nineteen eighty eight
be ahead of NFL teams by what twenty years? Like
the fact that he was always going for two, never punting,
just literally relied on his guys in athleticism, being like,
we're the best, We're gonna show up here.

Speaker 5 (17:36):
And now he was right.

Speaker 3 (17:38):
We just saw it in the NFL.

Speaker 4 (17:39):
Like, as an Eagles fan, I will never get over
the fact that they punted or they kicked that field
goal in that first drive with Jane Daniels with Washington right,
they drove that whole field and for some reason they
went away from who they were. And we talk all
the time it's like the coaches that stay true to
who they are, right, they always stay going for it
on the fourth down, those are usually teams at the
end of the year that's going to come out.

Speaker 2 (18:00):
So it just popped in and we were talking about
it's like, how did.

Speaker 4 (18:03):
This team in nineteen eighty eight in high school be
so far ahead of these college NFL teams. It is
funny how those things just start that way.

Speaker 5 (18:11):
I completely agree. And the one thing that's surprising to me, guys,
it has not become mainstream. Maybe it's getting there, but
like this whole thing of all coaches want to say
is I believe in my guys.

Speaker 3 (18:20):
We're aggressive, we're.

Speaker 5 (18:21):
Tough, and then they punt on fourth and one, you're
acting like a coward. That the way to enact belief
in your guys is to say, we practice getting one
yard all the time. We can get this one yard.
We're gonna out tough you in the trenches and get
this one yard. I'm surprised that hasn't become more mainstream thought. Allah.
Dan Campbell and some of these guys who are trying
to do that.

Speaker 1 (18:41):
Well, that's what's interesting when you talk about Campbell, you
talk about Sean Payton, these guys who are traditionalists when
it comes to coaching football, but are progressives when it
comes to how they play call and the decisions they make.
And to your point, it has nothing to do with
the analytics. And that's what's fascinating to me is that

(19:04):
there is this quality of football that you've alluded to,
the toughness, the intangibles that happens to play into the analytics, right,
So that to me is amazing. The one thing that
drives me nuts. And you just talked about this with Lafleur.
Teams that have a fourth and two and they decide

(19:25):
they're going to go for it. The Saints did this
so many times last year with Derek Carr. They got
a short yardist situation and either in a high leverage
spot on third down or fourth down, and instead of
actually going for the first down, they create a play
call where the only option is some over the shoulder
fade against the sideline that has a very narmin What

(19:49):
the fuck, Kevin, Why when you talk to coaches like
you have so many great coaches on your show, you
have so many players on your show. You just said
Lafleur likes to think about it. Do they think about
it realistically? Do they?

Speaker 5 (20:02):
Is it a.

Speaker 1 (20:03):
Well like, why are they doing this?

Speaker 5 (20:05):
I think that part of it. So when I talked
to him, it was last year about this particular issue
was last year of Rogers, and you're thinking, like Rogers
one of the most accurate quarterbacks in history. Now that
started to dissipating. He had the thumb injury that year.
He was banged up all year I think he was
frankly missing throws on fourth and two, and it was
actually extremely frustrating to watch as someone who picked them
to win the Super Bowl that year. I picked the
Packers on Super Bowl like all the time. I don't

(20:26):
know why I still do it. I don't know why.
I'm gonna probably stop this year. I'm off, I'm off
the train. But I think it's it's kind of what
we're talking about. It's a belief. It's a confidence in
saying like we can execute this. We practiced this over
and over and over again. So if I call my
best play on fourth and three, it's gonna work. And
the problem is is that if it doesn't work, I

(20:48):
think there's a sense of panic. More more so, I
think the quarterback's eyes dart around because it's not second
down where you go, all right, we're gonna just dirt
the ball and lived another day. I think there's a
sense of if it starts to go, really goes. And
I wonder if maybe more not conservative plays, but plays
with more options baked into it, Like you know, we
all play Madden or NC double A or whatever. On

(21:10):
fourth down, I promise you I call three routes that
can all work, and I wonder sometimes why why coaches
don't do that.

Speaker 1 (21:17):
I completely agree with you, so annoying.

Speaker 5 (21:21):
Just play Madden, guys. Yeah, you would always run a
drag and a post and something's gonna hit.

Speaker 1 (21:28):
Okay, just call it like you would on a Tuesday afternoon,
play in your base. That's really it. You've hake Kevin
O'Connell on the show. Yeah, we love Kevin O'Connell. Going
back a couple of years, I always felt like he
got shafted a little bit for a Coach of the
Year when Brian Daball got it and Kevin O'Connell did

(21:49):
the same exact thing that Brian Daball did. And then
this year he proved he's just consistently been a better
coach by reading the way he did with Sam Darnold.
Explain to our listeners of the things that you learned
from him about quarterbacking.

Speaker 5 (22:05):
So first of all, you want to tell about analytics, Yeah,
my guy is deep in the weeds on So I
didn't know the lore of this as I said it.
So I'd mentioned that JJ McCarthy over the middle of
field was one of the mos efficient pastors in football.
He knew those stats, but he also knew that JJ

(22:26):
McCarthy on the weighty downs, third and eight, third and nine,
third and ten was one of the most efficient pastors
in the history of football. And apparently I was told
in my replies that that was like a basically a
Vikings blogger who wrote a piece about about how good
he was on weighty downs, and that Kevin O'Connell clearly
read that and repeated some of those stats. So, like
you want to tell about a guy who's head of
the curve, how many coaches are reading their own team's

(22:49):
analytics bloggers, right, Like that's that's that's different. Okay, that's different.
And by the way, I think cam Ward beat J. J.
McCarthy's records on third and lawn, But we won't we
won't get into that just yet. But what I love
about Kevin O'Connell is, and I'd heard him talk about
this before, is that he doesn't I think he views

(23:13):
quarterback development very personally. If I don't help Sam Donald,
that's on me. And I think a lot of coaches,
I said, twenty five coaches in the thirty two say,
and we got this guy's in his fourth year. I'm
not really gonna we're gonna mail it in like truly
we're gonna mail it. We're not gonna give him any reps,
so I can try to develop him. And Kevin O'Connell
seize it as his mission to take a Sam Donald

(23:34):
even though you're getting J J. Mcrad that goeta started
last year, but he wanted to develop Sam Donald. And
the other thing I think is important is he thinks
and I think he lives it. Don't overreact at any point.
I think we do this all the time. Don't overreact
to any point to the quarterback. Don't overreact o for OTAs,
don't take stock at for training camp. It's all a journey.

(23:55):
And the only thing he said, the only thing you
need to be thinking about is what is this player's
ceiling and what is the goal? What is the path
towards that ceiling. Everything else is a distraction almost right.
It's like the old Nick Saban results or a distraction thing.
And what's funny is I was just talking about this
with with cam Ward because I'm thinking about someone like

(24:17):
Anthony Richardson, where we know what a ceiling is. He's
one of the most athletic quarterbacks of all time, Anthony Richardon,
and you had to give him a runway of two
or three years to reach that ceiling. He gets hurt
after a month of his rookie season. Everybody's trying to
say their germen Indianapolis, and all of a sudden he
gets Spencer Joe Flacco, who, by the way, was did
not steady the ship like I think that people thought

(24:38):
that Joe Flacco, Oh yeah, no, he'll get there days. No, No,
he was bad. They were bad. And yet Richardson is
going to get failed by the entire cults thing because
they didn't They drafted a guy who was a project
and didn't give the project time to develop into anything.
And I said this on my show a couple of
weeks ago. Have you guys ever heard the Paul Deepadesta

(25:00):
analytics roller coaster analogy that he gave at a conference
years ago. It's one of the best things I've ever heard.
So they said, when you're if you're Paul Deep asked
Paul Deep Adesta, what do you want ownership? And he says,
I don't know what I want ownership, but I know
what I don't want an ownership. It happens all the
time in analytics, which is acting like my child at
the amusement park where they say I want to get
on the roller coaster. When I get on the roller coaster,

(25:21):
and then it starts to get really scary, and as
soon as it gets scary, my daughter goes, I want
off the roller coaster. Get me off this roller coaster.
Stop the ride. And with with analytics, I think a
lot of times, to go back to what Deepodesta was saying,
a lot of times ownership is like, of course you
want analytics. Of course you want analytics. And then we go, oh,
by the way, we're going to trade the star player.

(25:42):
Oh by the way, we're not gonna have a point
guard to start theater.

Speaker 3 (25:45):
Oh by the way.

Speaker 5 (25:46):
You know, like all of these things you have to
do in order to get those results. The ownership goes, well,
we can't do that, we can't well well woa wa,
well we can't do that. And I kind of think
the same thing is true of quarterback play. If you're
drafting Anthony Richardson what you think's gonna happen, the floor
is very low. And I think that a lot of times,

(26:06):
like did you expect him to be ready in September
of his rookie year, Well, he would have gone first
overall if that was the case. And so I think
that when I look at someone like Kevin O'Connell, I
look at a guy who's what the NFL needs for
their quarterback development problem. He sees it personally. He wants
to help these guys. He understands the timelines, he understands

(26:29):
what JJ McCarthy is gonna need. And frankly, you know,
unless you're a Chiefs fan or five other teams, maybe
i'd want Kevin O'Connell coaching my team if I was
a fan.

Speaker 1 (26:42):
Simon, I know you want to jump in, I mean,
fellow real quickly because that quarterback thing is interesting. And Simon,
you love Dannathonian Richardson coming out of college. And to me,
it makes me wonder why don't people think differently about

(27:02):
drafting quarterbacks. If nobody believes Shador Sanders would be a
top flight prospect in a year where there were other
quarterbacks who were coming out who were better, why all
of a sudden reach to draft him in the top ten.
Do people really believe cam Ward is as good a

(27:24):
prospect as Caleb Williams, as Jaden Daniels, it's like, Okay, great,
that's great. But if not, it seems like if you
were Obviously the premium is on a quarterback because it's
such the most it's the most important position, but that
leads to a rational decision making, and that leads to reaching,

(27:49):
and people are so afraid of what the optics are
going to be they can't make the actual in a
vacuum analytics decision.

Speaker 3 (27:58):
That's fair.

Speaker 4 (27:58):
I'm I'm I'm the wrong guy because I don't believe
in the reaching for a quarterback. It's such a unique
position in this league that it's like like.

Speaker 3 (28:05):
You're the Browns.

Speaker 4 (28:07):
If you think Sanders is a reach, it's why your
organization is a bunch of losers and you've never had
a good quarterback. It's like you're not in that position
to say, well that's a reach for when it organization,
it's it's no you you see right, there's especially old
school scouts. They're looking for guys to have, you know,
they do one or two things really well, like all

(28:27):
pro level, and they can figure.

Speaker 3 (28:29):
Out the rest right match it together.

Speaker 4 (28:30):
Anthony Richards is a great example of that of just
pure raw talent played what thirteen games, twelve games in college,
came out of twenty one crazy young. You knew there
was gonna be a ton of bumps on the road.
Their organization is held has been terrible at handling that.
But also you hear rumors about him. Is he in
there all day, working all day?

Speaker 3 (28:49):
Right? Does he come and early leave late? Some things?

Speaker 4 (28:52):
You hear he's not that type of guy, which again,
if you're not that guy in the NFL, you're probably
not gonna last. Like you just have to work so
hard at the quarterback position. On the flip side, I
guy like Jane Daniels, who played for what five six
years in college, came out incredibly polished, incredibly mature. He
didn't have those speed bumps right. He came out and
I feel like after one or two games he adjusted

(29:12):
to the NFL. So I'm with you on that chat
where it's like it is tough with some of these
teams because they're trying to over evaluate these positions. But
from my mindset, it's just like you got to keep shooting.
Like cam Ward, I love this kid's skill set. He's
a bunch of little things he does where I'm like, oh,
this kid can easily be a stud in two or
three years, or we can have this weird run. We've
been on chat where c J shroud came out right away,

(29:33):
legit playoff quarterback changed this whole team's organization the following year,
Jane Daniels. So we've been on this run now of
these quarterbacks coming out way more mature that people give
them credit for, adjusted to the NFL fashion that people
give them credit for. And again that comes down to
the analytics of these teams know exactly the best thing
to do with these quarterbacks. The other teams don't. Right,
the other teams need a year to adjust. So that's

(29:54):
why I'm interested you Jaane Dewel's upcoming season. We saw
CJ teams adjusted to him last year even though they
had a ton of injuries. One of the adjustments to
Jane Daniels because right now, even breaking down his film chat,
I don't see it like this kid he's got it all.
Like if he can keep that mentality, he's going to
be our problem next year. So I'm miss here Kevin's
view on it because it's he's in the same boat
as me, Like he liked Nanthony Richardson, but we both

(30:16):
agree like that ownership the coaching staff, it feels like
they've all failed him at this point.

Speaker 5 (30:20):
Well with Richardson in particular, what if you taught him
to be more of a professional instead of just giving
up on him? And I thought the marketing of the
benching was really stupid. You know. It was like, hey,
Shane stike And is he going to be your quarterback
in the future? And Steikeen was like, oh, well, you know,
I guess we'd love that. Yeah, sure, what made anything's possible?

(30:40):
You know, Like it was like when they bentioned this year,
it was like he was never coming back. And you
think about Bryce Young and obviously the Andy Dalton car
accident played into this, but like they still believed in
Bryce Young and they still developed him and they weren't
going to give up on him. And Bryce Stung arguably
was worse than Anthony Richon ever was. It was just
danth Richton tapped on his helmet to give up on
a player, give up on a drive, which again, you

(31:01):
teach him and you move on. There's a lot, not
a lot of guys who are finished products. You mentioned
Jaden and Daniels, he played forever in college. I call
those guys doctor quarterbacks because Bo Nicks and Michael Pennox
and Jayden Daniels played one hundred years and and through
I think a thousand all of them through a thousand
more passes than J. J.

Speaker 3 (31:18):
McCarthy. Like it's it.

Speaker 5 (31:19):
They were playing a different sport, had a different developmental thing.

Speaker 3 (31:22):
With Ward.

Speaker 5 (31:24):
I can tell you why. I think he's like a
franchise guy. I could tell you a million things. My
two concerns. So he tries to make things happen a
lah Josh Allen, which is a good thing. Coaches like that.
You want to say, what's the other thing you want
to say? You want to rain him in instead of
you know, kicking him on the butt basically, and he

(31:46):
will go for it. And my concern is if there's
really bad turnover, look early or you know, he's so
comfortable in the pocket's he operates so not casually but
so slowly, will hang in there, which is a strength
in college. You do it against Miles Garrett. It's stripsack, right,
it's a it's a scooping score. So those are my

(32:07):
two concerns. My concern is one bad month and all
of a sudden, oh, we're gonna go see what will Levisa?
You know, it's it's that kind of thing. I don't
think that's gonna happen. I'm just saying that what the
organization needs to say in the front end, I think
they will. I think the Titans are really smart. Whoever
drafts cam Ward, I'm gonna assume it's gonna be the Titans,
barring a trade, needs to say. There's going to be

(32:30):
plays and there were only five of them at Miami
where he throws across his body because he's trying to
win the game, and it is a really really ugly series,
and we got to say, you know what, that's just
who he is, the same thing that Bill said about
Josh Allen. That's who he is. We're gonna try to
tweak a little bit, but we're gonna let him go.

(32:51):
Oh he fumbled on one play because he was trying
to do too much. Okay, Fine, he's gonna get to
January as our starter. And guess what he's gonna get
to next January as our starter. You almost and I've
thought this before, pat Riley, I guess before that. The
heat Big three thing came to Eric Spolsterra and said,

(33:11):
there is nothing you can do to get fired. There
is nothing you can do, and there's gonna be so
much noise on you know, hey, Lebron is leaking that
he wants to bring in his own people. Lebron wasn't
listening to the timeout. Doesn't matter you're the coach, and
with someone like Ward, where there's gonna be bumps on
the road because of how aggressive he plays. The best

(33:32):
thing to do is say, Cam, there is not a
thing in the world that will get you benched. And
it's the exact same thing they should have said to
Anthony Richardson.

Speaker 4 (33:39):
And I love that too, where like Chad's saying it
is random, right, no one really knows in the draft
who's gonna be the guy when they're drafting quarterbacks. My
favorite thing will always be you don't know in mini camps,
but you know, come July August when everyone's in camp together,
you can see, like my favorite River Wi always be
the Alex Smith story. Like they're they're in Kansas City
and they're just getting there in August, everyone's getting ready

(34:01):
for the ucoming season and Ean Alex Smith turned to
his coach and was like, holy shit, this Patrick Mahomes
kid is the real deal. Like there's certain guys coming
in the league immediately they're just so talented it jumps
off the board. And you know, we've had a run
here of these quarterbacks of you know, just absolute game changers.
Like it's it's been shocking how much good quarterback play
we've had come into this league lately. And you just

(34:21):
mentioned the name that me and Chad love, right, we
love the Panthers and we love talking about what they're
gonna do down there, and you know the future of
Bryce Young and someone that you know, my whole knock
on him was I just didn't see the ceiling, Like
when Anthony Richards and I saw the ceiling of a
Josh Allen type, big body, incredible arm, freak athlete Bryce Young.
I just never saw what the ceiling was. I know,

(34:43):
people were like, well he could be arew Drew Brees type.
There's only one Drew Brees in my lifetime, Like, there's
never been another type like that that's small with an
incredible arm.

Speaker 3 (34:52):
Deadly accuracy. But you saw flashes of that last year
at the end of the season.

Speaker 4 (34:55):
I saw what people said when they talked about him.
I mean, you interviewed Dave Can, what's his coming on
the season. What's what's the view right now of him?
You know, this is in my mind a make or
break season for him.

Speaker 3 (35:06):
You're three. If they don't do well.

Speaker 4 (35:09):
How did they not take a quarterback at his points?
So I'd love to hear your view after talking on
their head coach.

Speaker 5 (35:13):
They believe in Bryce obviously going into this year. I
think part of it. I think Bryce works really hard
and it's coachable, and I think those are the two things.
Even going into the season. I know some guys down
there in Carolina and they were saying, listen, it's not
I forget what the phrasing of someone down there in
Carolina told me, Like, it's not about him becoming the
next Droup Breeze. It's about him becoming the next Baker Mayfield,

(35:34):
you know, like the thirteenth, twelfth best quarterback. I think
that Alex Smith had a start to his career in
San Francisco that was abysmal. And I've talked to Smith
about this. It took him three years to get over
his first start because they're just how bad it was.
I think that I think if you are that bad
when you come in, it probably means you're not going
to be Mahomes. It probably means you're not going to

(35:55):
be CJ. Stroud. You can still be the twelfth best
quarterback in the NFL. You can still be Baker Mayfield.
You can still be that level. And I think that
that's the most important thing for Carolina now. It was
raising the floor and giving him those options. And when
I talked to Canalys, I said, what's the key to
that thing? And he said the key is meeting them
in the middle and saying, if you work hard, I

(36:17):
will reward you with routes that you like, concepts you like.
If you come to me and say I can throw
this route reliably over the middle, for instance, I will
build a playbook around that. So long as you give
me proof of concept that you're going to work your
butt off, you're gonna get there and you're gonna hit
that route every single time. That's it is that the
coaches do their jobs, the quarterback does their jobs. They

(36:37):
both have a trust. Trust is the word that he
used a million times. That's what ended up happening with
Bryce Young is they said, can you work to a
point where you can do these things well? And he says, yes, Okay, Fine,
we'll build the playbook around that. All of a sudden,
that's how you raised the floor. So to me, again
going back to the Kevin O'Connell thing, that's coaching Gino Smith,
Baker Mayfield, Bryce Young. Those are the three coach quarterbacks

(36:58):
that Dave Canalys's coached over the past one five years.
And that's what he's done every single place is raise
the floor with trust and with schemes and saying only
do what you do well. And I think that's the
one thing. I think in the old football guys, there
was a lot of hey, this, we're gonna draft this quarterback.
He's gona run our system and if you can't run
our system, he's out of here. And I think that
what it is now with the way the college is,

(37:19):
it's like we're gonna So Brian Callahan, as the Titans coach,
was on my show. It was talking about he wasn't
about Kim Morton, talking about Joe Burrow. Of course he
would never talk about Kim Moore, but he was saying
that the one thing he tried to do with Burrow
is make year one in Cincinnati b year three at LSU,
make the concepts so familiar that you're not sitting there

(37:43):
trying to learn calculus, right, you're saying, oh, I can
do this, and then if the bullets start flying and
the speed of the game isn't what he thought or whatever,
you can go, Okay, you know what we're gonna do, Joe.
We're gonna run the eight concepts that you ran exactly
at LSU. And I think you can probably read into
the fact that that Brian Callahan has been revisiting his
Joe Burrow notes. He's been rewatching the zooms he had

(38:05):
with Joe Burrow because that was during COVID, so we
had it all recorded, it's all on his computer. So
I think you probably read into that with what they're
gonna do with the first overall pick. And I think
you can probably read into the idea that they're going
to take a lot of stuff from cam Ward's offense.
So that's a lot of RPOs. I mean, that's it's
it's a lot. It's a lot of middle of the
field stuff. There's probably gonna be a lot of that,

(38:26):
lot of tight end usage, a lot of that is
probably gonna be in Tennessee year one. And that's that's
what a good coach does.

Speaker 1 (38:35):
That detail right there about him rewatching the zooms thinking
about Joe Burrow in his third year at LSU, which
could be equivalent to cam Warden in his first year
at Washington State. Like that is a great fucking deal. Cat,
that is like that detail right there.

Speaker 5 (38:56):
FU, Who say, Who's to say cam Warden is the
first overall pick? I can present the facts as they
were presented to me. Ban Callahan is sitting around looking
at the old zooms of Joe Burrow. So of course
the number one overall pick will be a dual carter.
Of course. Still that is it's gonna it's one word.

Speaker 1 (39:15):
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(40:20):
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That's edgeboost dot Bet promo code favorites. As we said,
the Masters is this week starts on Thursday. You've been
doing the bet casts with ESPN for golf. How do
you think about golf from the analyzing the sport from

(40:43):
a betting point view.

Speaker 5 (40:47):
I don't been on football, and the reason I don't
is because I bet every single tournament golf turam I can,
and I know how mad I get it. Xander Schoffley
when he misses a nine footer that costs me money, Okay,
there he goes from from T eight to T twelve, right,

(41:08):
And I just couldn't imagine that being Bobby Wagoner missing
a tackle and costing me, you know, an NFC East
Futures bet. And then a week later, Bobby Wagoner's on
my show and I'm just shooting daggers at him and saying,
what the hell was that, Bobby? Like, I just know it, right,
So there's a separation of church and state.

Speaker 1 (41:27):
For me, it's not a moral separation. It is a
emotional person ethical journalistic.

Speaker 5 (41:35):
I just want to come to it as ethics is
the wrong word. It's more journalistic. I want to come
to everything completely neutral. What's funny now? And I'm thinking
that can name any names, but you can see who
has what bets based on people's Twitter feeds during a
game now where it's like these refs are out of
control and it's like, okay, Buddy, I know you had
Florida relax.

Speaker 1 (41:56):
Okay, that's funny.

Speaker 5 (41:58):
And for me, I never want to be the guy
who's who's analyzing a sport. I'm paid to cover like
that in any way other than fairness and anything other
than like I say, if I had C J. Stroud
to win an MVP this year as a future as
beat Simon, I would have interrupted you and said, well.

Speaker 3 (42:15):
No, no, no, you're wrong about what we got.

Speaker 5 (42:17):
The thing about c J start like I would have
come through that way. Now I'm coming through it only
to the prism of is CJ. Stro I'm gonna make
a leap that he did make last year like that,
That's that's the way I want to do it. So
for me, I love the analytics of golf, Like that's
the one thing. I saw cousin Style at the airport
at the Super Bowl last year and we were talking
about gambling and I said, I'm I'm I love gambling

(42:38):
on golf and he said what, I guess he's less
into it and he said, sell me on this for
a second. And I said, well, imagine Patrick Mahomes played
on a different field every single week, and that's some
weeks it was one hundred yards. Some weeks it was
seventy yards, but it was it was more with and
you had to figure out every single week whether or
not this is going to help or hurt Mahomes' game,

(42:59):
And that you would look at my Holmes's you know,
last seven games and look at his ball flight and
figure that out, and like imagine just the different rabbit
holes you go down, because this is golf is a
sense of place more than anything, and you get to
understand this stuff. And Augusta is the heightened version of
all of this because the same stuff every year with
a few changes, I guess the hurricane change some of

(43:19):
the tree layouts or whatever. But it's ball strikers. And
if you guys gamble on golf, you know, take ball
strikers and figure the rest out later. That's a pretty
reliable way to get a bunch of top tens the
top twenties to hit. It's course history that matters a lot.
And then there's all these things that are unique to Augusta.
I saw Rick Gamon had an awesome nugget on his
podcast yesterday, I think, where he said that in his research,

(43:42):
the guys who do the best at putting on Augusta,
it's not till your sixth year, statistically that you tend
to figure it out. You're six through ten playing Augusta
are the years you peak as a putter, because it
takes you that long to figure out the greens at Augusta.
And so I don't think there's many places like this.
I think that maybe I'm biased because it's it's one

(44:03):
of the only sports that I really do bet on,
But I think betting the Masters is the best betting
experience you can have. Maybe maybe the NCAA tournament's more
fun or more endorphins or whatever, more more stimulation, Like
this is unbelievable. And what's funny about it? For me?
I was mentioned the ball strikers. What's always frustrating about
the Masters because I've been on ball strikers every single

(44:24):
week and just go, hey, who's Taa Green, Who's a
prohot guy? What's been on that guy? It's always one
of my guys who wins this always, but it may
not be the guy went all in on this week,
Like I owe the year a DECU one, I go
all in on the decku like every other tournament. I
happened to not go in on a decky that week,
and I think I probably broke even that week or whatever.
But it's like, for real golf gamblers, this is this

(44:49):
is just heaven and I just love sorting through all
the info.

Speaker 1 (44:52):
So who are your We're gonna I want to go through, Yeah,
your high end, your mid tiers, but before we get
to start with your high like top of the leaderboard,
top of the odds.

Speaker 5 (45:03):
Yeah, so I don't know what to do with the
live guys. To be completely honest with you, people keep
telling me there are Lord help us. There are people
saying Sergio Garcia is live here, and I don't know
what the heck. I don't know what what are we doing?
What are we doing on live? I don't know rom
people talking about cam Smith as someone. But for me,
the two guys at the top of my card are
Roy McRoy obviously plus six hundred to win, minus one

(45:28):
forty to be a top ten, I'll figure that out,
and then Justin Thomas he's twenty two to one to win.
For me, the Justin Thomas thing is simple for top
fifteen and Tita Green. So Tita Green strokes gained, which
is basically just how well you hit the ball until
you get to the green that last thirty six rounds.
He's in the top fifteen birdier better percentage. He's number

(45:50):
one par five. So if you guys know anybody gusta
par five. The whole rule, the rule of thumb, is
you just let the par fours happen. Let the par
three happened. You get really aggressive on par five's really aggressive. Well,
guess what. Justin Thomas is number one over the past
thirty six rounds in par five strokes gamed, number eight

(46:10):
in eagles around the green twelfth and a three plot avoidance,
which is important. This week he's in the top ten.
So for me, I'm betting Rory because I think he's
an amazing ball striker and I just think, frankly, I
know this is not great gambling termology. I think he's due.
I think he's better. You know, A couple of the
golf analysts were saying he's getting better at course management.

(46:31):
He's hitting softer shots. He's he's always gone full send
and he's always hitted as hard as he could. Like
like when we're out on it, like I do this
all every year, I'm like, you know what, this is
the year. I'm just gonna start grooving nine irons. I'm
gonna I'm gonna club up and just just manage the course.
And then I get out there and I'm like, what
if I hit my driver to seventy?

Speaker 3 (46:48):
What what?

Speaker 5 (46:48):
I'm just gonna That's all I care about. And then
you end up shooting eighty nine and Tod eighty because
of it, right and Rory, it sounds like the past
couple of weeks couple months has gotten a little better
actually following that advice and having the softer shots. But
to me, it's it's it's Thomas and it's Rory. At
this point, guys, I don't have really any top top

(47:12):
live guys on my card. I'm kind of gonna miss
it with Ram and Kopka because I've got the data,
I've got the strokes gained data, and there's evidence that
suggests I'm wrong here. I just think playing on live
is just a different deal. And I don't know, and
we've seen obviously Bryson win last year. It's just hard
for me to quantify that and say I'm going to

(47:32):
go all in all these guys in the in the
way that's necessary to win at the Masters.

Speaker 4 (47:37):
And I wonder, like with someone like Rory, you're not
worried that he's broken mentally, just because it's been what
I mean something that I loved Rory because you know
he's from Northern Ireland. You know, I know he's not
the biggest fan being British, but that's why I heard
about him because I'm a fan of being British, of
British golfers, and now the fact that I'm trying to
think is it? Is it? Twenty thirteen, twenty twenty fifteen

(47:59):
was the last time he won out. We've seen him evolve.
His whole life has changed so much since since then.
You're right, like feels like he's been playing his best golf.
Do you have confidence in him though on that Sunday
if he has that lead, I gotta be honest.

Speaker 5 (48:15):
After Pinehurst that's another question. But to me, the biggest
problem with the Master is Simon was always Thursday. It
was always, oh he shot a seventy nine, What the
hell just happened? And then he ekes his way back in.
I think he gets too juiced up for this. That's
why I was so encouraged to hear the reports of
him managing the course well whatever. Like you know, Bill

(48:35):
Walsh had a quote I go back to all the time,
which is, there's no such thing as clutch, there's just
executing normally. When everybody starts to lose their head, right,
And there's another quote from Jimmy Johnson in seth Wickersham's
Belichick book about twenty four out of the thirty teams
are going to get out of your way, and any
given season, just don't be one of those teams. The
problem with the Masters guys is Rory loses his head

(48:58):
and is one of the teams that gets out of
the way. And they kept gut and look at Rory
and go, don't I fear about this guy. He's all
juiced up, you know, like that kind of thing. At
some point he's gonna learn and he's adjusted so many things.
I mean, you know this in following him. He's played before,
he's skipped before, he's given more rest, he's given more
more warm up rounds, He's tried so many different things.

(49:19):
At some point you just have to believe that he's
a good enough player to break through. At some point,
you just have to believe it. And if you look
at some of the form stuff, Rick Gamon has some stuff.
Data golf has some stuff. He's one of the hottest
players in the world relative to his baseline, which is important.
We saw we saw, even though it was JJ Spawd,
who by the way, is on some of my cards
this week, we saw him take care of business in

(49:43):
the playoff at the players. I just feel like, at
some point it's gonna be his week. I'm gonna regret
having no I've how many times it like bay Hill,
have you not bet Rory? And he goes, what the
hell is this? He's like juiced up and he's high
five and everybody, and you're like, all right, hope, Hendrik
Stenson hangs. Meanwhile, you lose all your money. Right, It
feels to me like a Rory week where you're I

(50:06):
always with football teams in particular, I always say like,
what's the reverse engineer? What in ten years am I
going to go? Of course, this team won the Super Bowl?
Look at the roster, Look at the defensive tackles, look
at this guy on this contract, like the Eagles this year.
You're looking at the roster and you're going in twenty
thirty five, we're gonna look back and be like, of
course the team won this suit. What the hell are
we thinking? Thinking the Rams are going to beat them

(50:27):
or their commanders are going to beat them with golf.
I do the same, and I'm thinking, at some point
I'm going to look back in the twenty twenty five
Masters and I think I'm gonna be surprised whe or
we didn't win, and I always want to bet to
those guys.

Speaker 1 (50:37):
You know, it's so funny, Simon, you mentioned that. So
when I was in Palm Beach this weekend, I'm working
on a new book and part of the book is
about the guy who invented the point spread and his
grandson lives in Palm Beach, and his grandson was a
professional golfer and is now a professional golf instructor, and

(51:00):
so he was basically groomed to be a professional better.
Ultimately he did not become a professional better, but a
lot of the lessons his grandfather, who you know, was
a master students in math at the University of Chicago
and Kevin, he's basically the original quant like he was

(51:21):
making models in the nineteen thirties using legal pads to
do all the chicken scratch math before there were algorithms
he could use on a computer, but all he did.
The guy was with in Palm Beach this weekend was
talk about the mental elements of golf. You know, he
loves golf obviously so much. And the way he was

(51:46):
talking about how everything is that you know, three square
inches of real estate in your head talking about the
difference between his level of success and the level of
success of people who are at the level that Rory
is at. I feel like Rory can handle it. I

(52:07):
think actually the breakdown probably helped get him into the
right frame to be able to overcome that the next
time it happens.

Speaker 5 (52:16):
I completely agree with you. I think that resilience can
be learned. I think that, I mean, the mental part
of it is what it is. I view so many
of these guys, and I said so million times before,
but I view it like AFC quarterbacks where I she
said it to Brandon be in the other day and

(52:37):
they're reverse. But if you look at Joe Burrow, Josh Allen,
Lamar Jackson, Patrick Mahomes, they should win the super Bowl
every year every year. They should win the Super Bowl
every year, and they don't because of a little tiny thing.
Hey we don't this wide receiver two got hurt, this
left tackle got hurt, the defense was good enough. Whatever.
There are fifteen guys who strike the ball to win

(53:01):
every single week on tour. John Ram should win every
single major and not to be like the Giannis Lebron thing.
John Ram would would win. You know, fifty majors if
he was born in nineteen fifty, right, That's just kind
of the way it goes. And so for me, the
mental part of it is the entire thing. And I

(53:21):
think Rory Simon might be getting better at that. I
know those are famous last words. I know we probably
if you listen back to whatever your guest was on
April eighth last year, was probably saying the same thing.
But like, at some point he's too good not to
break through.

Speaker 1 (53:34):
Do you have any mid tier long shots that you're looking.

Speaker 5 (53:38):
At, well, So Shane Lowry staying on the staying on
the Rory thing, just always going to ball strike in
the way that is just incredibly impressive. And let's say
seventh and t to Green, eighth and three putt avoidants,
top thirty and par five's top ten in eagles, twenty

(53:59):
second around the greens. So Lowry's always going to be
in my card. And then if I had to give
a longer shot in this mid tier, I'm gonna go Sepstraca,
who I actually heard Patmeo just shouted him out and
is on the Straka train. Uh, top five and tea
to Green, Birdie or Betty Better top three par five
top two, like Straca is the kind of guy that

(54:22):
is probably if I had to guess he might be
built for this, he might. He might be built for this.
And obviously I don't think he has a ton he
was he was sixteenth in the Masters last year. Looking
at it now, like I would not be surprised for
the Sebstraca top five and I'm gonna bet that change.

Speaker 1 (54:40):
Lowry thirty five to one, Straca sixty to one. Yeah,
last question for you, if you had to give us,
I know you don't bet on football. If you had
to give us a Masters champion, super Bowl champion, hard leg.

Speaker 5 (54:55):
Good, Yes, give it to all right, Uh jeez. I'm
pretty sure. I'm pretty sure Justin Thomas is gonna win.
I know we spend the time on Rory, but I'm
pretty sure Justin Thomas is gonna win. Okay, that's my
that's my number one.

Speaker 1 (55:15):
Pretty sure. I'm pretty sure.

Speaker 5 (55:17):
I'm pretty sure you can take that to the bank.
I'm gonna go Thomas and the Ravens.

Speaker 2 (55:22):
Every year we got a believer, Chad Ravens believer.

Speaker 3 (55:25):
I love it.

Speaker 1 (55:26):
I know, right, every year so much better.

Speaker 5 (55:29):
As the season went along. Last year, I know what
happened in the playoffs, but like they have a new DC.
I think I believe in Lamar in a way that
maybe live people don't. I'm going JT and the Baltimore
Ravens every year.

Speaker 1 (55:44):
The Ravens are an auto future. Bet Simon, I'm pretty
sure the first time Kevin said Justin Thomas at twenty
two to one, I saw you put your head down
and I feel like you were betting.

Speaker 3 (55:55):
Yep, Justin Thomas, as you know me well, Jeff, you
know me well.

Speaker 4 (55:58):
I do want to say so our listeners, if you're
like not feeling it right the Northeast is cold right now.
It's a little shitt out chat. I know you're going
through the same thing. If you're not in the master's mode.
Throw on Tiger twenty nineteen on YouTube. It's like a
forty minute cut up somewhere an hour long. It will
literally put you right back into the master's mood. I
watched it two days ago. I'm gonna literally watch it

(56:20):
again as we get off this call, because it is.

Speaker 3 (56:23):
It's the best. So we just talked about the mental
side of the game.

Speaker 4 (56:25):
I missed the Tiger Red so much, but it just
it puts you in the right headset of the Masters,
the elegance, the weather. I think this weekend's gonna be
perfect in the seventies. Maybe a little rain on Friday,
but it's the best. The Masters really is the best.
Cough tournament.

Speaker 1 (56:40):
Have you been, chat, I've never been, And it's funny.
The wedding I was at this weekend, a lot of
people were going from Miami. They were sticking around and
then just going to Augusta all life. It's I know,
it's one of the two events I've never been to
that I'm dying to go to Masters in Wimbledon, and

(57:00):
it just kills me that I've never been.

Speaker 5 (57:02):
I'll tell a three second story. I don't care about Wimble.
I care about the Master's deeply, and I just this
time of year it's hard for me to go. But
when I was with the Ringer the last my last
contract the Ringer, I had said, Hey, can I do
the golf Majors And they said sure, that sounds good,
And so I was going to apply to a Master's thing,
and then my mom was getting honored by our college
that Friday, and I couldn't miss the mom thing. And

(57:24):
my mom doesn't understand golf at all, and so I
didn't apply. And then I was explaining to my mom.
I was like, Hey, I'm gonna go to your event
and I'm not gonna go to the Master's. She says,
why don't you just call the Masters. She's a sports fan,
but she didn't get the master. She goes, just call
the Masters and tell them you can be there Sunday,
and I go, that sounds like a lifetime ban. Mom.
That sounds like, I don't think you know who we're
dealing with exactly. Hey, guys, I'm sorry, I have a thing.

(57:47):
Can I just leave my ticket like Sunday morning, I'll
be there. I'll be there, I'll see you guys. And
I was like, I'm gonna go ahead and not call
the Masters and tell them I'll be their Sunday. Mom.

Speaker 1 (57:55):
Moms are the best, you know they It's like, I
just love just a lot of optimism. I was talking
to my mom last night about I was just catching
up with her. I hadn't spoken to her in the
week and I had just gotten I just landed back
in Connecticut, and she's like, oh, how did it, how
was the wedding, How is your you know, your day

(58:17):
with your guy and all that kind of stuff. I'm like,
it's great. Then she says to me, hey, listen, in
my book club there's a woman, her brother in law.
He worked at ESPN for a long time. You think
you know him. I'm like, what's his name? She goes,
I'm not quite sure of his name. It sounds like Kimmel,
but it's not. I'm like, well, is it Jimmy Kimmel.

(58:38):
She goes, no, it's not Jimmy Kimmel. But then she's
explaining it to me and I'm like, well, how old
is the guy? She goes, He's about my age, so he's,
you know, seventy seven. I'm like, mom, I'm not going
to know the guy, like he's I'm old and he's
twenty five years older than me. And I don't even
know what he was there, what he did where he worked,
and you don't know his name. But then she keeps

(58:59):
trying to explain it, and finally I said to her, ma,
I don't know why we're still talking about this. I'm
not going to know the guy, and she goes, I
get it, okay, I'm sorry, honey. Unfortunately that is right
when my eighteen year old walked into the room, and
then he laughed and walked out. And when I walked
into the living room where he was sitting with my wife,

(59:21):
they were both talking about how much I couldn't stand
talking to my mom. And it's like the exact opposite
behavior what I'm trying to model for my kids. So
when we are old, our kids don't roll their eyes
every time we call them and not want to talk
to us. And all I did was walk into it
because my mom trying to be lovely and trying to
be kind and just trying to say, oh my god,

(59:43):
isn't it cool you worked at ESPN and this guy
worked at ESPN and you might know him, and this
woman's in my book club. Instead acted like a dick,
and now I feel bad.

Speaker 5 (59:50):
Wow, now you have to have lunch with this guy,
this seventy seven year old.

Speaker 1 (59:54):
I gotta find nice. It's my last work to find
this guy. Kevin Clark. This is Football. That detail about
Brian Callen and Joe Burrow. That's why people should listen
to this as football, which is about a good football podcast.
As there is good luck on first take this week,
good luck with the bet casts, good luck with everything
at ESPN. You're awesome, your revolutionary, You're a media archetype.

(01:00:18):
Thanks for coming on the show.

Speaker 5 (01:00:19):
Thanks.

Speaker 1 (01:00:20):
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