May 22, 2024 • 38 mins
Today’s episode continues the conversation about skincare from our first episode this season. Dr. Dhaval Bhansuali is here today to talk about the science of skincare. A board-certified dermatologist, Dr. Bhansuali is renowned for his work healing scars and his passion for formulating skincare compounds. This “doctorpreneur” has developed several businesses and is the expert behind Hailey Beiber’s skin care line, Rhode. Listen as he dissects the ingredients that make the products for skin of all types.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
I'm happy to say I think the average consumer is
way more educated. I will hopefully use my platform to
continue to educate, but I think science is about to
take focus. I think, you know, drms are becoming the influencers,
which I think is so interesting and fascinating and I
love that people want to educate themselves.
Speaker 2 (00:20):
Hello. Everyone, this is Martha Stewart. In February, I interviewed
doctor Dan Belkin about cosmetic procedures and was thrilled to
see the response from our listeners. People are clearly hungry
for scientific, fact based knowledge about skincare as we continue
to explore this subject. Today, I am speaking with my friend,
(00:41):
doctor Dobel Bono Sali about the science behind skincare. Doctor
B or Doveel as I call him, is a Board
certified dermatologist based in New York City. As a doctor,
he is known for his work on scars, including several
cases that went viral, and also he's known for his
(01:02):
work and hair replacement. He's also the founder of three
companies and the developer behind Hayley Beaver's fabulously successful skincare
line Road. Welcome to my podcast, doctor B.
Speaker 3 (01:15):
Thank you for having me.
Speaker 2 (01:15):
I'm so happy that we're finally sitting down in this
charming little recording studio in Rockefeller Center to talk about
your kind of skincare. Absolutely, I met doctor B how
many years ago was.
Speaker 3 (01:29):
It probably six or seven years now.
Speaker 2 (01:31):
In Miami, Miamia at an event and we started to
talk about skin and skincare has always been a big
interest of mine, and of course it is also yours.
You went to medical school at what age?
Speaker 3 (01:42):
I got into medical school at seventeen.
Speaker 2 (01:44):
Oh my gosh. And he is the son of a doctor,
the brother of a doctor. Any other doctors in your family.
Speaker 3 (01:53):
Brother in law, uncles, cousins.
Speaker 2 (01:55):
Oh wow, So destined to be a doctor, and he
has focused his entire career on skincare and hair care. Well,
welcome to the podcast. It's very exciting to talk about
different aspects of skincare because I am fascinated. As you know,
it is something that I think about every single day.
I do have to look in the mirror at least
(02:17):
twice a day, once in the morning when I wash
my face and put on my skincare for the day,
and also at night when I have to wash my
face again, cleanse it and put on more skincare the
best habit. It is the best habit. And I have
told people over and over again that I have never
that I can remember gone to bed without cleansing my skin.
(02:37):
Is that the good habit, right.
Speaker 1 (02:39):
It's one of those few things that adds up over time.
I mean, a couple bad nights and you see it.
People's skin starts breaking out, you start having different issues,
texture changes. So it's one of the few things, along
with sunscreen obviously, that we try to educate patients on daily.
Speaker 2 (02:53):
And where did you study for your undergraduate.
Speaker 1 (02:55):
So I did my undergrad med school, both at Michigan State.
The blessing I was given was that I was already
in med school, so as an undergrad, I was able
to take classes from everything from art history to packaging
to economics human psychology. So you know, I think, especially nowadays,
you need a little bit of everything to really like
even approach patients, right. You need to understand who they are,
(03:15):
why they think, what they think, and all these things
become more and more important.
Speaker 2 (03:19):
How did you launch your career after school?
Speaker 1 (03:21):
I spent about two years just working at practices in
the city. I think I ran into you again right
before maybe like a week before I opened up my
new office in Hudson Yards, which has been now I
think four or five years or so. My joke was
I used to walk around with homemade cookies to all
the dormant in the area because I'm not a business guy, right,
so I would give him my little card and hope
to God that they would give it to the residents
of the place. You know, you fast forward now I
(03:42):
don't even know what my next available appointment is. But
it's like, you don't forget that kid who's giving the
homemade cookies to everybody, Like that's it's kind of part
of who you are.
Speaker 3 (03:50):
So it's been quite the journey.
Speaker 2 (03:52):
Well, you have a thriving practice in New York Hudson
dermatology and laser surgery, So tell us about the specialized
services that you actually provide at that office. I've gone
there for a facial, fantastic facial. I've gone there for consultations.
Speaker 1 (04:06):
We're lucky enough to have some of the top doctors
I think in the world that work at our practice
now have different specialties, whether it's cosmetics, whether it's more
medical related things, even allergy patch testing, which is importantespecially
when we do skincare projects and formulations. I love the
hacking part of things, right, So we did a laser recently.
Part of why we did a laser was to deliver
certain ingredients with you, right, And so that aspect of
(04:27):
it is a little more nuanced than just do a
laser or just do a facial.
Speaker 3 (04:30):
Right, even the facial.
Speaker 2 (04:32):
When you say you do a laser, what does that entail?
Speaker 1 (04:34):
So for example, the one we did with you, we
use a long pulse and diag laser to deliver. We
wanted to heat the dermiss. So if we were going
to do a facial and deliver certain ingredients, I want
to optimize the surface of your skin so that you
get the most out of those ingredients. And we do
other different technologies and treatments to help improve the overall effect,
not just short term but long term as well. And
(04:54):
so I think the idea of comboing technology with all
the things we traditionally do in science, that's like the
magic that you see where people want that extra oof.
It really does exist, but you have to really understand
all facets of this stuff. And it's fascinating, but it's
changing so fast.
Speaker 2 (05:08):
But the lasers is that what we read about when
like an actress for a big award comes into you
to get her skin looking absolutely luscious.
Speaker 1 (05:17):
We have that aspect of our office, the cosmetic side.
I myself personally, I love my scar case, as you
mentioned my hair cases, both because they're very emotional conditions.
But it's like, how do we approach cosmetics? For me,
it's artistic. What bothers somebody? And how do I fix it?
And so if it's a red carpet, we might use
a certain kind of laser. If I'm doing resurfacing, if
there's wrinkles, if I like there's something called a blade
of laser, I can literally remove the top layer of
(05:39):
your skin and give you almost like a facelift type result.
The downtime is decently significant, but you don't go under
the knife. So there's so many things we can do.
But I think the idea is again like as the
world evolves and technology evolves, what are our best options?
Speaker 2 (05:53):
Well, you are very well known for your work repairing scars.
He is a very important case that he worked on.
A young boy. Bridger was rescuing his sister from a
dog and dog who was biting her.
Speaker 1 (06:07):
It's an inspirational and very tragic story. His sister was
being attacked by a dog and he got in the way.
Speaker 2 (06:12):
Was this the family dog?
Speaker 3 (06:13):
I think it was the neighbors.
Speaker 2 (06:14):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (06:14):
And this is after everything happened and the dog had
ripped off a good part of his face. They asked him,
like why he did it, and he just said He's like,
if somebody has to die, it has I'd rather it
be me than my sister. He was five years old, right,
And it's like, how do you not want to help
somebody like that?
Speaker 3 (06:26):
And you know it's been touching. It happened during the pandemic.
Speaker 1 (06:30):
I remember back then if I talk about it now,
but we were even scared to bring him in because
back then nobody was flying. It was very like, we
don't know what to do. But it's like, what do
you do when you need to help somebody?
Speaker 2 (06:38):
How soon after the accident were you able to work
on his face?
Speaker 1 (06:41):
Traditional dogmas, you wait up to a year to treat
somebody after surgery or procedure for repair. But that's old
school and part of like kind of where my technique is,
and I think a lot of the dermatologists now it's
treat as soon as possible.
Speaker 3 (06:52):
If you like.
Speaker 1 (06:53):
There's times where if I'm doing a surgery on a
skin cancer, I might do a deep layer of sutures
laser and then put a top layer of sutures on
top to get the best cosmetic outcome. And so with
him safely, legally ethically, the quickest we could get him
in that was what we did.
Speaker 3 (07:07):
We treat him aggressively.
Speaker 1 (07:08):
So it was doctor Mahon and Utah Corey who also
helped with that case as well, and we had to
kind of figure out how do we get him because
Bridger was based in Wyoming, how do we get him
to one of us, because you know, in those situations,
a couple of weeks, a couple of months can make
all the difference. And this is the rest of his life, right,
So we was just five years old. Yeah, and so
I saw him recently. It was super sweet. So I'll
never forget his dad. Just his only requests. I hope
(07:29):
to god he can smile one day like that was
the only request from the family, And it was fun
to see him in the family catch up. You know,
now he's smiling, laughing his own person. So it's been
really fun to watch.
Speaker 2 (07:38):
Did you have to do skin grass? From other parts
of his body or.
Speaker 1 (07:41):
No, we were lucky because we got it pretty early.
And so the idea is we we resurfaced really aggressively.
And I don't get emotional often. I still remember I
tears in my eyes when I was lasering him because
it's like you feel it, right, you know he feels it,
but you feel his father felt that we were all
kind of just like doing our best, and the poor
guy he took it like a champion.
Speaker 2 (07:57):
He was a charming boy and he looks very, very good.
Speaker 1 (08:01):
That's a case that for the rest of my life
I'll remember. That's kind of the why, right, why do
we do this stuff? And that's definitely a why.
Speaker 2 (08:07):
Well, it's nice that there are doctors like you who
can tackle such a really devastating situation like that. So
he's been healing for how many years now.
Speaker 3 (08:17):
I think it's for three years.
Speaker 1 (08:18):
Yeah, and so, and like I said, as he grows,
we're going to keep watching the scar and see if
we have to do anything else.
Speaker 2 (08:22):
In your office. The office, by the way, is very
different from most doctors' offices.
Speaker 3 (08:27):
The spaceship.
Speaker 2 (08:28):
It is like a spaceship. It's white and red. It
is like a spaceship inside. You know what impresses me
about offices is the equipment, and you have the latest
of the latest of the latest, and that's what that's
what I'm looking for. I am looking for youthful enthusiasm
and knowledge and good equipment. And I was very impressed
with your office and even and in the last couple
(08:49):
of years it's even gotten more impressive.
Speaker 1 (08:51):
We get to help develop some of the lasers as well.
Like I always think about the people who are in
my office, but those are four walls, right, and it's
like the people beyond that. So impact I think can
be measured many different ways. And when you help with
developing technology or even doing clinical trials, which we do
a lot, of your impact then go beyond those four walls.
And I think that's a really important thing as a
doctor that you should think about, which we didn't traditionally
(09:12):
do for a long time. It was always like one
foot front, the other head down, do your work. But
now you know, the world has become a lot smaller,
and so I think it is an opportunity for us
to advance much quicker as we than we otherwise would
expect to.
Speaker 2 (09:23):
Well, I always also look I mean when it comes
to skincare, I always look at the doctor and what
kind of skin does the doctor have? How's the doctor
taking care of himself or herself? And you also you
have this practice in hair replacement, and you also did
a video on your Instagram about you getting hair replacement.
Speaker 1 (09:43):
Well, we were doing it on one of our patients.
I think it's important to educate people. A lot of
the stuff is there's a like cosmetics itself is a
wild wild West.
Speaker 3 (09:51):
Like let's be honest.
Speaker 1 (09:52):
Our expertise is in our education and part of our
job and much now you do it. You educate or
you've been educating for a long time in terms of
like how to take care of yourself, how to you
know how to cook well, how to take care of
farms right? And our job as doctors to educate. So
I use social media honestly as an education tool and
to demystify a lot of these things because I know
(10:12):
I can't see everybody right. Like again, I don't know
maybe a year, two years, three years, I don't know
what my next appointment is. But it doesn't mean I
can't help somebody who's going to go see a dermatologist
or a local doctor be educated to go, you know,
get the help.
Speaker 3 (10:23):
That they need.
Speaker 2 (10:24):
Can we talk about the hair replacement a little bit?
What is your procedure? So because I have so many
friends who are you know, getting you know a little
older and really want to do something about their thinning
hair and men and women. But it's very interesting because
they're talking about going to Nepal or to India or starchy.
Speaker 3 (10:46):
So it's interesting. We do two different things.
Speaker 1 (10:48):
So one is there was a project we called Hairstem
that works on my Skin Medicinals platform, but we create
a tech platform where doctors can custom compound ingredients for
hair growth really anything. And what happened was a lot
of these patients who were not getting their traditional results
with the traditional medications, the doctors were starting to use
certain ingredients that we help put together and their patients
(11:08):
started growing hair. So I think they did a really
good job of providing that next layer in terms of innovation.
Because hair, we've had the same two FDA ingredients for
our all like twenty years or so, and so the
idea was like, how do we use technology to provide
better options for a patients. So that took off quite
a bit. So that was a topical, non invasive option
for transplants. Let's say you want to lower your hair,
or if you want to fill in the back area
or whatever that is. We actually can take hairs from
(11:30):
the back of your head and place them wherever we
need to. The art of it is how do you
place them in a way that a the person looks
like a normal like how they should kind of like
a like a cosmetic procedure. Right, nobody should not look
like themselves, and so the idea is like even with
your hair, like, you have to kind of visualize what
is this person going to look like?
Speaker 3 (11:46):
How is going to be natural?
Speaker 1 (11:48):
You can do a strip method, which is a little
bit more old school, or you can do the FUI,
which is we take individual once we kind of hide
the scarring so you don't really see much of anything,
and then we place it. The only kind of downside
their long procedures. We did one last week. It was
sixteen hours long. I think fifteen hours.
Speaker 2 (12:01):
Wow, that's a long time.
Speaker 1 (12:03):
So there, it's quite the process, but the results are
worth it.
Speaker 3 (12:06):
I think you.
Speaker 2 (12:07):
Did it, and I remember seeing the pictures of you
with your your you know, your face got a little
swollen from afterward, But your hair looks amazing, thank you.
Speaker 1 (12:16):
My reasoning was a little bit different partly than most
because we teach it and we educate people and you
kind of have to go through it.
Speaker 2 (12:21):
To I always ask doctors, have you done this? Yeah,
like you have you had cataract surgery or have you
had you know?
Speaker 1 (12:29):
For me, I did a little like just kind of
like a shaping, if you will, and I thought it
made such a huge difference. But also I gave feedback
to the company and we help kind of design different
things that different elements that would improve.
Speaker 3 (12:40):
That's innovation, right, you're.
Speaker 2 (12:41):
A guinea pig. But also and you're learning tremendously from
this kind of absolutely, and as a result you can
do it very successfully. On people will cause this hair
loss in the first place.
Speaker 3 (12:51):
That's the thing. There's so many factors there.
Speaker 1 (12:53):
I mean, obviously genetics is number one, but it could
be anything from hormone issues to vitamin deficiencies, vitamin dia.
I tell everybody check the vitamin DM very big on that.
I think things like iron people forget that. A lot
of people aren't efficient these days. I even had a
patient I'll never forget. She came in she had been
losing a lot of hair, and I've seen her for
years for cosmetic stuff, and I was like, no, no, no,
this is not a hair loss consultation. I need you
(13:14):
to go see your primary doctor. We to do blood work,
do this. She came back three months later, double miss
it to me. She had breast cancer and a lot
of times your hair. My kind of thoughts always the
hair is a window to the soul, not the eyes.
The hair can tell you stuff, so it's always worth
seeing an expert because that's.
Speaker 2 (13:29):
Where you start finding hairs on your pillow.
Speaker 3 (13:31):
Correct.
Speaker 1 (13:32):
Yeah, And I mean, look you have like you probably
one of the more iconic hairstyles I think out there.
But also I would argue one of the things you
do better than most people. You are healthy, right, You
minimize exposures to things, you eat well, all these things,
everything plays a part in your body and your body's reflection.
Speaker 2 (13:46):
With you totally ru with you, and you have to
find the things that maybe you're lacking and replace those things,
add them to your diet whatever. I'd like to get
my blood tested twice a year just to see that
they know if I'm feeling hired me. I work so
hard but and tiredness is just part of overwork, I
think for me. But I did find out that I
was a little low on iron, so it was such
(14:08):
an easy fix. Yeah, and so those things are extremely important.
I think more doctors should really stress the fact that
a few good, but you.
Speaker 1 (14:18):
Were proactive, right, so maybe like two three, four months,
but you start noticing more hair break if you didn't
get it fixed or treated right, hair break age, you
might notice other things fatigued, tired. I'm a big proponent.
So again I've shifted my practice a bit less about chasing. Again,
that's why I have a different cosmetic I think angle
than most people. I like to think of proactive like
what do you do like I like to build structures.
If you're going to get botox, okay, putting your calendar done,
(14:40):
don't think about other things that's in their calendar for fillers.
If you're going to do fillers once a year, put
in the calendar, have it situated.
Speaker 3 (14:46):
Don't chase other things. Always as bad aest.
Speaker 2 (14:48):
But can you help your patients with those with placing
it on the calendar. I mean you can tell them
when they should do it, you can. Yeah, And I
think I think people don't realize that too. They could
ask the doctor when's my next visit?
Speaker 1 (14:59):
And I think you make the is it's a year
ahead of time and put in your eyical or whatever
it is. Even lasers, right, I have a role with
my patients, Like I might do a laser once a
year when you're in your thirties, twice a year once
you get forties, and then I tweak bending on like
whatever issue we're looking at. But I but the problem
is we live in a world where you see something
on Instagram or TikTok and you're like I need this,
And you know, I think you're a great example.
Speaker 3 (15:18):
You're very structured. Right. We look at a lot of
like again, we've talked.
Speaker 1 (15:21):
About sun damage before with you. We did the imaging
of your face with the visia.
Speaker 2 (15:25):
Oh yeah, that was very interesting.
Speaker 1 (15:26):
Yeah, but we can people can't call visia. Yeah, but
we were looking at the sun damage underneath your skin.
Speaker 3 (15:32):
Right.
Speaker 1 (15:32):
That is one of those things where like I, as
a doctor, not cosmetic a doctor, have to be aware
that you have sun damaged. Like this is the reason
why ingredients are important. This is the reason why we
look at even with sunscreens, what is the evolution of
it is this the best we can do? Are there
are different supplements we can take to enhance our UV protection.
This is why, like again how we do our practice.
We're more looking forward as opposed to backwards. And the
(15:53):
idea is like, how do we create a plan almost
like a workout plan?
Speaker 2 (15:56):
Right?
Speaker 1 (15:56):
People do their like food planning ahead of time, their
workouts sead of time. This is like I think aging
well nowadays is also about living well and creating that
structure in.
Speaker 2 (16:03):
Place beyond your practice. You can see that doctor thinks
about a lot of things, not just not just giving
fillers and botox and making people feel better about their looks,
(16:24):
but really going to the crooks of skincare. You've been
called a doctorpreneur. Do you identify more as a doctor
nowadays or as an entrepreneur?
Speaker 3 (16:34):
Always doctor doctor.
Speaker 1 (16:36):
Where our job is and even the way we use business,
it's really it's a means to I think, reach a
broader audience. But I will always identify as a doctor
because our job is to serve people, and you know,
every project I do has that in the back of
the mind.
Speaker 2 (16:49):
But you at the same time, you have pulled together
the resources to get four companies off the ground. Tell
us about those companies.
Speaker 1 (16:56):
Yeah, so, I mean I've been fortunate. Maybe it's addntioning
working add but skin medicinals I'm insanely proud of. That
was a project just to lower drug pricing. Back in
twenty eighteen. If you remember drug the generic drug pricing skyrocketed,
and you're the patients that came in, you'd have a
twenty dollars medication that's now four hundred dollars.
Speaker 3 (17:15):
And so what we did is we looked at like.
Speaker 2 (17:16):
People who had to take that medicine were feeling terribly impoverished.
Speaker 1 (17:21):
Yeah, they couldn't they couldn't do it, they couldn't afford it. Right,
I'm not going to let somebody choose between food and
their medication, right, So we did a little bit like
at that point, compounding was just starting to take off.
It actually had been the predominant way of creating medications
before I think nineteen mid nineteen nineties, but it was
very like kind of an old school approach with the
facts and all that. So we built a digital platform
to make to use technology to improve the access to
(17:43):
these compounding medications, which could be literally one hundredth the price.
The second part of that was that we can create
personalized medication so I could pick and choose what ingredients
you need for whatever condition it was.
Speaker 3 (17:53):
We've already saved healthcare.
Speaker 1 (17:54):
I think about probably almost five hundred million dollars maybe more.
We have about fifteen thousand terms around the country that
use it. And it really was a project to get
lower pricing. But the number of people who've written in
who said like, hey, this is saved me, you know,
it's it's it's been very humbling, but that's why you
build things, right.
Speaker 2 (18:12):
You don't what that company is called skin Medicinals.
Speaker 3 (18:14):
Skin Medicinals.
Speaker 1 (18:15):
Yeah, we're now doing more generic meds. We're doing we're
trying to work through with actual like branded medications as well.
Like the whole idea is access right and how do
we also build with a dermatologists as well because part
of people what people don't realize it's very difficult as
a doctor to get access to these medicaid It's not
like we don't want people to get these medications. So
we're building infrastructure to make the doctor's life simpler. But
(18:36):
it's a tough process because there's a lot of red
tape around that, and for good reason, but I.
Speaker 3 (18:40):
Guess the best way.
Speaker 1 (18:41):
But it's it's it's it's a big patience pusher, if
you will, because you have to do everything the right way,
which I'm a big advocate for.
Speaker 3 (18:47):
But it takes time.
Speaker 2 (18:48):
But I wounded my foot or actually my cat and
my dog wounded my legs, and one doctor recommended me
that I go to a compounder and get a special
kind of painkiller. Boy did that work?
Speaker 1 (19:03):
Yeah, No, compounding is it's really like part of the analogy.
But it's like a cook in the kitchen, right, like
for you mixing and matching ingredients. You can do what
you want to versus getting something pre made and just
warming it up right, and the idea. I think as
doctors it's our duty to understand ingredients and formulations and
then being able to utilize that for the best of
our patients.
Speaker 2 (19:20):
So you worked with Hailey Beaber, the beautiful, beautiful wife
of Justin Bieber, my friend who I roasted and his
twenty first vers just.
Speaker 3 (19:29):
Still the funniest five ten minutes of TV I've ever seen.
Speaker 2 (19:31):
Oh my gosh. Well you did develop with her a line,
a very successful line of lovely skincare. What were her
priorities for skincare?
Speaker 1 (19:41):
So, Haley, I mean you've met her. She's a brilliant mind,
very creative. I think with her growing up in her generation,
there's a lot of marketing and kind of noise, right,
and she wanted to simplify everything and provide almost I
think she said the white T shirt, if you will,
of skincare, where it's just basics that are essentials and
then utilize the scigence aspect of it. So it was
(20:01):
very ingredient based, right. So there are things from peptides
to nice cinemi to polyglutamate, Like each product had very
specific ingredients, but really just what you needed, right, not
putting all the excess things in it. And it's been
really fun to watch that grow.
Speaker 2 (20:15):
We it's a simple packaging, good packaging, but simple, not overdone.
You don't have to open fifteen boxes to get to
a tiny little tub of I cream. You know, it's
very nice. It's very nice and artistically designed.
Speaker 1 (20:28):
Yeah, I think, but that generation, I think they want
authenticity and transparency. And you know, she's been great about
connecting with her audience and she's very involved. I mean
she I've gotten text messages her with from her who
knows what time about ingredients and studies and things like that.
But you want somebody who really does care about it.
And that aspect of it, I think is it resonates.
(20:49):
That's why people can kind of see the authenticity of
the brand.
Speaker 2 (20:52):
So you're very passionate about formulations of products. What makes
a good formulation, So.
Speaker 1 (20:57):
There's a lot of things again, much like cooking. I
love that comparison, but it's not just a pinch of
that or a little bit of so and so. The
percentage matters, right, A two percent nice in the mind,
for example, might be a really good fanti inflammator. If
I want to brighten, I might go at higher concentrations.
How you mix and match ingredients, right, So we talked
about hair and we did a lot of compounding.
Speaker 3 (21:15):
For hair.
Speaker 1 (21:16):
I would use let's say monoxidal. Traditional monoxidal, you get
x amount into your scalp. If I put something like
retinoc acid, I can enhance the penetration this monoxida.
Speaker 3 (21:24):
It's been shown in study.
Speaker 1 (21:25):
They figured that out exactly. So a formulation really is
much like a recipe. It's a grouping of different ingredients
that can get you a one plus one equals three
at least. I like to think about it, right, where
these ingredients can synergize and also like you keep all
the other things in mind, tolerability, efficacy, and even the
potential side effects, right, I mean, anything can have side effects.
People can have allergies. My old thing with fragrance. For example,
(21:48):
four percent of able people have fragrance allergy, which is
not a lot of people.
Speaker 3 (21:51):
But if you have a million people, try.
Speaker 1 (21:52):
A product people, but four percent, only four, But that
means forty thousand people out of a million people can
have an allergy.
Speaker 3 (21:57):
So it's a lot more than you realize.
Speaker 1 (21:59):
Particular, really, if you're formulating brands for the world, so
you can have specific allergies of specific ingredients. There might
be a certain scent or whatever it is beyond the
traditional fragrance, but there's a baseline population. No matter what
fragrance you give them, they'll start getting that kind of
that reddish we call the macular popular type rash, or
the itchiness around the neck and eyelids and things like that.
Speaker 2 (22:18):
In an interview, you said that we nerd out on ingredients.
Let's talk about some of the ingredients that you use
and what science says about them.
Speaker 3 (22:28):
So peptides, So peptides are fun.
Speaker 1 (22:30):
As it's been picking up steam over the last two
years or so, there's a little fragments of amino acids.
Think of them as almost parts of proteins. Their job
is actually to trick your body into going to production
motor signaling your body to do stuff. So whether you're
producing collagen or lastin or telling a muscle contract a
little bit less, they kind of almost like I just
getting little messengers that go in and tell your body, hey,
(22:51):
maybe you should consider doing this without having the over
ingredients that you would otherwise be using.
Speaker 2 (22:56):
Yeah. So on just this morning, I put on super
peptide serum. Yeah, I don't know what it's doing, if
it's doing anything, but so it speeds things up.
Speaker 1 (23:05):
Yeah, So I mean, depending on whatever. There's so many
different types of peptides, so it's really what you're targeting.
But I think it's a good point where with peptides
all these different products, it's interesting to see who's saying
what because there's a science the right people. Anybody can
say peptide, but what does that mean?
Speaker 2 (23:19):
Right?
Speaker 1 (23:19):
And it's worth looking into, like what the literally they've
done in these studies and if they actually work.
Speaker 2 (23:23):
But you know, all of a sudden there were peptides
and I had never seen them before before, as you
say about five years ago. What about nian and cinemides?
Speaker 3 (23:32):
Nice?
Speaker 1 (23:33):
It's a nice and it's a great formulation ingredient, it's
anti inflammatory.
Speaker 3 (23:36):
We use it all Actually, what's skin of medicine?
Speaker 1 (23:38):
We use it a lot for improving tolerabilitycause a lot
of these medications can be a bit harsh. So I
love it almost as like as like a stabilizing type
ingredient to help people kind of just keep everything at bay,
even for acne.
Speaker 2 (23:48):
Cowuld you use it for rerittinal with retinal y.
Speaker 1 (23:52):
Yeah, so we with our skin medicinals we have a
formulation with trettono and a lot of people get irritation
with trettonoid, so we have hyaluronic acid in their term
which is an anti inflammatory, and then nice cinemite as
well to help hopefully keep the tolerability at base that
people can work their way up and then they don't
have any issues.
Speaker 2 (24:07):
Okay. Vitamin C that's been a big big thing for skincare.
Speaker 3 (24:12):
Yeah, so vitamin C.
Speaker 1 (24:13):
You and I have talked about this a lot, so
vitamin C is a fascinating ingredient. There's been two articles
and I think the last six months questioning of vitamin
C actually does anything. I look at it kind of
like milk, where we were told for years and years
you have to drink milk. Out drink milk, or your
bones were all break. We stop drinking milk, and somehow
we're all okay.
Speaker 3 (24:28):
Vitamin C.
Speaker 1 (24:29):
I think certain brands do a very good job with it,
but the vast majority of the don't do the research.
A lot of vitamin c's within minutes of putting it
on your skin, they don't work. So think about somebody
who is using it for anti accident protection. You're going
out in the sun and you're you just spend one
hundred dollars on a product, one hundred dollars in a
product and it's not doing anything. Let's say you forget
your sunscreen, be like, oh okay, I have this, this
and this, and it's not doing anything. Some of them
(24:50):
within the bottle themselves are inactivated, so they're not working right,
and you're spending so much money. So a lot of
the stuff that we've been you and I have been
kind of going in and you know, again, not to
go too far into it. You and I have worked
don you're a student of the game, if you all right,
and you like to learn about ingredients, and we've gone
through deep dives of certain products and formations that I
made stuff for you, but around the anti accident world,
(25:10):
because I do think that we've evolved from iPod to
iPhone and with technology, even with ingredients, Can I stabilize
vitamin C longer? Can I find something that's better than
vitamin C? And the answers yes, And again I'm not
saying all vitamin c's are bad, but I am saying
that the vast majority of the ones that are on
the market are not doing what you think they are.
And again I think Dan had mentioned that as well.
Oh yeah, and part of like you know again, I
(25:32):
look at somebody like you who's wearing sunscreen, doing things
the right way. Maybe you have been using vitamin C
for a long time. Maybe that's why we're still not getting,
you know, the results.
Speaker 2 (25:40):
Now, a few years ago, you and I worked on
products containing CBD. Without the government backing of these of
these products, it's very difficult to put them out on
the marketplace. What about CBD Does it really work in
skincare with youth?
Speaker 3 (25:54):
So say, it's a good question.
Speaker 1 (25:55):
That's a great example of like I think, sometimes marketing
gets a hold too fast and it doesn't allow the
science to catch up.
Speaker 3 (26:01):
CBD actor is a great anti inflammatory.
Speaker 1 (26:04):
It's one of those things where their actual clinical trials
going on. I've heard they're all doing very well. I'm
sure they'll be publishing over the next couple years, but
they take you up to seven years to these trials
to go through. I think there's something there, But the
problem is all these people start, and it's with anything,
they'll start claiming crazy things without the science to back
it up. People start questioning the integrity of these things,
and then you kind of lose the audience. And so
that's why, yeah, we started looking at CBD. I think
(26:26):
the government regulation and again there's reasons for why people
do certain things, but I think it got kind of
caught in the crosswinds, if you will, of a lot
of different places. But in a weird way, it kind
of worked out because then we started looking at other ingredients,
and again I think with your concerns and us talking
about antioxidents, it kind of pushed us through a different direction,
but in a weird way. That's why we found really
cool discoveries along the way.
Speaker 2 (26:48):
Toners.
Speaker 1 (26:49):
So I got kind of yelled at on the internet
about this. I'm a not a big fan of toners.
Speaker 2 (26:55):
So what areners in your mind?
Speaker 1 (26:57):
So, toners were initially created to balance your pH whatever
that means. Right after you cleanse your skin, your body
does that naturally, like it normally does that. It might
take a couple of seconds, but it does it. But
a lot of skincare brands are like, okay, we can
just market this thing is going to rebalance yourph. And
they're very alcohol basically tighten your skin, so you feel
like they're doing something you don't need it, right, And
(27:18):
so the traditional toner is not what it is today.
Now they're more like essences essences. I look, I think
it's just a great step for improving the skin barrier.
But the current toners are just hydrating ingreens. They don't
use alcohol, they don't use any that stuff. But they're
just marketers to things.
Speaker 3 (27:31):
They're soothing.
Speaker 1 (27:32):
Yeah, but that's not what a toner was, right, and
so people still use the name toner. The reason why
I say you don't need it because the toner in
its previous form no longer exists. Really just using an essence,
which are fine, and a lot of times even with
road we have a glae. I actually brought you something,
but that glazing milk is really an essence that you
can use to kind of nurture your barrier and use
it kind of pre makeup as a base, and I
(27:52):
think it does help overall, just whether it's the appearance
of your makeup but also your skin health throughout the
rest of the day.
Speaker 2 (27:59):
Are any other ingredients that we should avoid?
Speaker 1 (28:02):
I think generally speaking, I mean, look, there's all these
there's a whole laundry list of things out there. I
think it's more like the trends, the TikTok trends and
Instagram trends and people doing do it yourself masks and.
Speaker 2 (28:13):
Do well not only ingredients, but procedures too.
Speaker 3 (28:16):
Even procedures.
Speaker 1 (28:16):
I think one of the big things is that you
have to know who you're going to like more FISA.
It's gotten really big, right and I'm not against me.
Speaker 2 (28:23):
What is that?
Speaker 1 (28:24):
It's a radio frequency micro needlenks. They use a certain
kind of energy and then with micro needling to deliver
results deeper into your skin.
Speaker 3 (28:31):
The problem is where do we use it? How do
you use it?
Speaker 1 (28:33):
There's so many nuances there, and really the issue is
most people, again they just say I want more VSA
A twenty something that does not need more VSA. Somebody
who has maybe some crapiness around the stomach, around the knees,
would they benefit, like probably, But again, who's doing it?
How much energy are they delivering? There's so many nuances stuff,
And that's where I get really nervous, because we start seeing,
(28:53):
like a part of my early practice, I built it
on fixing kind of mistakes from other places. And when
you see so much, you become a bit wary of everything,
and you get almost like you're again. Probably why I
educate so much on social media is because I've seen
more than I probably should, and so we try our
best to prevent it.
Speaker 2 (29:18):
Well, some ingredients, as you just said, deliver holidays from
other ingredients. What does that mean in.
Speaker 1 (29:25):
Terms of enhancing ingredients? So there's a lot of different
things we do. Let's say, for example, there's you know
ingredient A and it's known and traditionally as an antioxidant,
right ingredient B might be combined with ingredient A, and
actually the combination of those might be anti inflammatory. And
we do this a lot in formulations on the medical side,
but also on the OTC side. So a lot of
like what we do now with ingredients is looking at
(29:45):
again downstream function and how do we make complexes that
can really get you the result you want, not just
the marketing of it, but scientifically, can we show that
these ingredients are complementary, just like again like a certain
taste in a recipe where if you put a little
bit of this, maybe the salt pulls out a little
bit more tape, you know, whatever it is. That's how
we look at a lot of these formulations.
Speaker 2 (30:03):
And do you ever teach? You're such you're so eloquent
about all this stuff.
Speaker 1 (30:06):
I used to teach a lot more. I teach at
Mount Sinai, which we're both fans of. I teach their
the residents once a month. I use my social the
best I can. I give lectures I to give I
think two lectures are of American Academy of Durham next
week in San Diego. So I do my best to teach,
but I think the fun part about social media is
that I think it gives me an ability. Like even
today I post something you know, within a few minutes
(30:27):
has ten thousand, twenty thousand and three thousand views. That's
a whole Madison Square garden with the people who's just
been educated. It's incredible, right, And so you can touch
so many more people and so many more lives, I
think through social and that's how I try to teach.
And I think that's like again, that's the future of how.
Speaker 2 (30:43):
We're going to be communicating and how do we find
you on social media.
Speaker 1 (30:46):
So my tag is at doctor Bonasali d R B
H A n U S Ali for those who might
not be able to spell it, but you know we're
in Hudson Yards.
Speaker 3 (30:55):
We have some incredible doctors.
Speaker 2 (30:57):
Definitely. Oh so let's let's just do quickly basic skin
care for a twenty year old.
Speaker 1 (31:04):
For twenty year old, I would keep it simple. Cleanser,
moisturize with SPF, and you can consider starting your retinol
at nighttime, but you don't have to yet.
Speaker 2 (31:12):
Okay, thirties, I would.
Speaker 1 (31:13):
Definitely have the retinal or retinoid. And then again, just
as a quick reminder, retinoids help you with your texture,
your tone, pores, pigmentation if you have it, the increase
cell turner's almost like expliation and with wrinkle prevention or
slowing down. So you should be on it and obviously
acting as well, because a lot of people use it
for acne. That would definitely do. And I would consider
then an antioxidant, especially if you're out in the sun
quite a bit, and forties forties, I would definitely have
(31:36):
an antioccident. I think at that point now you start
looking at what are the things that bother you? Right?
So the way I look at like your serum is
your active. Your active can be hydration when you're younger
or when you're older, but when you're in your thirties
and forties, is it pigmentation? Is it redness?
Speaker 3 (31:49):
Is it?
Speaker 1 (31:50):
What is that pathology or trying to solve. So you
have your cleanser, your moisturize or your serum and then
your SPF on top and at nighttime again, your retinoid
is something you don't give up.
Speaker 2 (32:00):
Okay, and how do you get retinoid? But what do
you look for?
Speaker 1 (32:03):
So retinoid's just a vitamin A, so it could be
retinols which are over the counter or retinoic acid, which
is prescription. I will always push their prescription because it's
just stronger and it works better. Again, formulation is fun, right,
So you can use retinyls and add you know, an
alphydroxy acid or beta hydrox to get better drying. It
is drying, but actually one of the reasons why it
makes your skin look more taut and the poorest smaller.
It removes excess oil. So it actually is part of
(32:25):
the job of the retinoid to reduce the oil make
you a little bit dry. But you can do different techniques,
techniques like the sandwich technique, which I think I posted
about before. We can apply moisturis before and afterwards. I
like argon oil, so after you use a retinol, put
a little bit of argan oil which actually helps keep
acneat bay and also helps keep your skin hydrated after
a retinol.
Speaker 3 (32:41):
So there's a lot of little tricks we can use.
Speaker 2 (32:42):
Yeah, boy, write a book.
Speaker 3 (32:46):
You're a number one hundred, right, I'll get to one
and we'll please.
Speaker 2 (32:49):
Let's write a book about skincare. We should. Can you
talk about some of the products that you've recommended for me?
Speaker 3 (32:55):
Sure?
Speaker 1 (32:56):
One of the things you and I have done I
think again, more as scientists than and educators. We've really
looked at the science. I have worked on that. I mean,
I've worked on a new antioccid and complex with you.
But we looked at antioxidants because for somebody like you,
I like you are real. You really are out on
the farm. I've I've come to your place and you're
on the tractor doing who knows what, and I'm running
around and like, ow, she had so much energy. But
(33:17):
you were a living, breathing example of being active, and
so we looked at, you know, antioxidant. My big concern
with you is always going to be sun protection, right.
We've talked about developing like a supplement that actually helps
protect you with the in addition to sunscreen, not to
replace it.
Speaker 2 (33:31):
Yes, a supplement that you would ingest correct.
Speaker 1 (33:33):
Yeah, And the science is there, right, Like I'm not
a big supplement guy, but there's science where certain things work.
The problem is because of marketing and social media, people
put out god knows what, and our job as doctors
kind of debunk what the you know, the non factual
information is versus the factual information, and we've played with
the stuff. Maybe one day, we'll bring it to the masses.
But I think, you know, with us, like it's been
(33:53):
kind of fun to discover things, and even that facial
we did with you, like we delivered specific ingredients. I
remember Daisy called me like a week later and she's like,
what did you do to Martha? Like her skin looks insane?
But that's the fine. I don't think people realize that
are Martha facial? If you will, it's unofficial facial that
we have in our facial lab. You're the only person
who gets it's not available to the public.
Speaker 2 (34:12):
So people are talking about protecting the skin barrier, what
does that mean?
Speaker 1 (34:18):
So the skin barrier itself is really interesting. It's kind
of like you know, you've seen you saw that big
push with the biome and the gut biome and how
that can really affect your overall health with.
Speaker 3 (34:27):
Your skin bearer.
Speaker 1 (34:27):
It's very similar so rosetia, for example, it's an inflammatory
condition and they found more recently that it actually is
a compromi there's a kind of a disfigured skin barrier
or a dysfunctional excuse me, skin barrier that might be
a root cause in the entire roseesia picture. Even acne
or infections and a lot of different things that we
don't realize are actually caused because our skin barrier is off.
We spent decades exfoliating ourselves to death, and what happened
(34:50):
is you compromise this barrier whose job was singularly to
protect you. And so that's why the goal of a
lot of skincare now is to moisturize, hydrate, protect, because
that's what's going to protect your skin long term, so
it can do what it's supposed to, just protect you.
Speaker 2 (35:03):
And is social media more harmful or helpful when it
comes to skincare education, it's.
Speaker 3 (35:08):
A loaded question.
Speaker 1 (35:09):
Yeah, I think it's harmful and that people compare themselves
a lot. Right. It's there's a lot of negativity on
social media, and we've talked to you about, you know,
in with you people. Every time you post something, it's
always like it's more negative in the beginning and then
it becomes positive. But I think the opposite is true too.
It's inspirational. Right, you did the SI cover. I've never
told you this, but the number of people who've come
(35:29):
to my office and have been like I needed to
see that because they've hit a certain age and they
almost feel like they can't live a certain way. The
number of my own patients who have been like that
has changed my outlook on life. Like that is impactful, right,
And they see this picture, it's not just a picture.
It represents so much more. And I think social media,
when used well, can be equal parts inspirational, equal parts educational,
(35:50):
and it's a net positive, but you have to put
the kind of levers in place to control it. And
with kids and stuff, I do like that they're looking
a little bit more about how kids are affected, because again,
you don't want to compare yourself, you know, Again, we
treat some of the more well known people on earth,
they don't even look like some of the victures that
are out there, right, sometimes the best representation of them.
And I think that authentic conversation needs to be had,
whether it's with parents and you know their kids, or
(36:12):
even doctors with their patients.
Speaker 2 (36:14):
How would you like to change the future of skincare?
Speaker 1 (36:17):
We're asked us in a couple of different interviews over
the last couple of weeks in media, and they're like,
what do you think is going to happen over the
next decade with skincare? And I'm happy to say I
think the average consumer is way more educated. I will
hopefully use my platform to continue to educate, but I
think science is about to take focus. I think, you know,
germs are becoming the influencers, which I think is so
interesting and fascinating, and I love that people want to
(36:38):
educate themselves. And I think the next decade is going
to be defined by science and all the fluff is
going to go away, the marketing, all that kind of stuff.
It's gonna people are still gonna market, but the quality
will rise to the top. And I think people will
now look at much more efficacious formulas that actually work
and say what do what they say, as opposed to
maybe trying to trick people into hoping that something actually occurs.
Speaker 2 (36:58):
One day. Well, all this is such great information. We
could talk and talk and talk and talk, but I
think I would like our audience to digest all this information.
And you can follow doctor Vonisli at doctor d R
capital B h A N s U A l I
(37:18):
on all social media channels for more skin care expertise.
You could change that to doctor.
Speaker 1 (37:24):
B listen if you know somebody at Instagram, or take
that and get me doctor B. I'm down to the
take of it.
Speaker 2 (37:29):
Thank you so much, doctor B. And I look forward
to my next facial at your beautiful offices in Hudson
Yards and UH and I look forward to continuing to
work with you on extraordinary, fantastic, useful products. Absolutely, thank you,
Thank you for having me
I'm happy to say I think the average consumer is
way more educated. I will hopefully use my platform to
continue to educate, but I think science is about to
take focus. I think, you know, drms are becoming the influencers,
which I think is so interesting and fascinating and I
love that people want to educate themselves.
Speaker 2 (00:20):
Hello. Everyone, this is Martha Stewart. In February, I interviewed
doctor Dan Belkin about cosmetic procedures and was thrilled to
see the response from our listeners. People are clearly hungry
for scientific, fact based knowledge about skincare as we continue
to explore this subject. Today, I am speaking with my friend,
(00:41):
doctor Dobel Bono Sali about the science behind skincare. Doctor
B or Doveel as I call him, is a Board
certified dermatologist based in New York City. As a doctor,
he is known for his work on scars, including several
cases that went viral, and also he's known for his
(01:02):
work and hair replacement. He's also the founder of three
companies and the developer behind Hayley Beaver's fabulously successful skincare
line Road. Welcome to my podcast, doctor B.
Speaker 3 (01:15):
Thank you for having me.
Speaker 2 (01:15):
I'm so happy that we're finally sitting down in this
charming little recording studio in Rockefeller Center to talk about
your kind of skincare. Absolutely, I met doctor B how
many years ago was.
Speaker 3 (01:29):
It probably six or seven years now.
Speaker 2 (01:31):
In Miami, Miamia at an event and we started to
talk about skin and skincare has always been a big
interest of mine, and of course it is also yours.
You went to medical school at what age?
Speaker 3 (01:42):
I got into medical school at seventeen.
Speaker 2 (01:44):
Oh my gosh. And he is the son of a doctor,
the brother of a doctor. Any other doctors in your family.
Speaker 3 (01:53):
Brother in law, uncles, cousins.
Speaker 2 (01:55):
Oh wow, So destined to be a doctor, and he
has focused his entire career on skincare and hair care. Well,
welcome to the podcast. It's very exciting to talk about
different aspects of skincare because I am fascinated. As you know,
it is something that I think about every single day.
I do have to look in the mirror at least
(02:17):
twice a day, once in the morning when I wash
my face and put on my skincare for the day,
and also at night when I have to wash my
face again, cleanse it and put on more skincare the
best habit. It is the best habit. And I have
told people over and over again that I have never
that I can remember gone to bed without cleansing my skin.
(02:37):
Is that the good habit, right.
Speaker 1 (02:39):
It's one of those few things that adds up over time.
I mean, a couple bad nights and you see it.
People's skin starts breaking out, you start having different issues,
texture changes. So it's one of the few things, along
with sunscreen obviously, that we try to educate patients on daily.
Speaker 2 (02:53):
And where did you study for your undergraduate.
Speaker 1 (02:55):
So I did my undergrad med school, both at Michigan State.
The blessing I was given was that I was already
in med school, so as an undergrad, I was able
to take classes from everything from art history to packaging
to economics human psychology. So you know, I think, especially nowadays,
you need a little bit of everything to really like
even approach patients, right. You need to understand who they are,
(03:15):
why they think, what they think, and all these things
become more and more important.
Speaker 2 (03:19):
How did you launch your career after school?
Speaker 1 (03:21):
I spent about two years just working at practices in
the city. I think I ran into you again right
before maybe like a week before I opened up my
new office in Hudson Yards, which has been now I
think four or five years or so. My joke was
I used to walk around with homemade cookies to all
the dormant in the area because I'm not a business guy, right,
so I would give him my little card and hope
to God that they would give it to the residents
of the place. You know, you fast forward now I
(03:42):
don't even know what my next available appointment is. But
it's like, you don't forget that kid who's giving the
homemade cookies to everybody, Like that's it's kind of part
of who you are.
Speaker 3 (03:50):
So it's been quite the journey.
Speaker 2 (03:52):
Well, you have a thriving practice in New York Hudson
dermatology and laser surgery, So tell us about the specialized
services that you actually provide at that office. I've gone
there for a facial, fantastic facial. I've gone there for consultations.
Speaker 1 (04:06):
We're lucky enough to have some of the top doctors
I think in the world that work at our practice
now have different specialties, whether it's cosmetics, whether it's more
medical related things, even allergy patch testing, which is importantespecially
when we do skincare projects and formulations. I love the
hacking part of things, right, So we did a laser recently.
Part of why we did a laser was to deliver
certain ingredients with you, right, And so that aspect of
(04:27):
it is a little more nuanced than just do a
laser or just do a facial.
Speaker 3 (04:30):
Right, even the facial.
Speaker 2 (04:32):
When you say you do a laser, what does that entail?
Speaker 1 (04:34):
So for example, the one we did with you, we
use a long pulse and diag laser to deliver. We
wanted to heat the dermiss. So if we were going
to do a facial and deliver certain ingredients, I want
to optimize the surface of your skin so that you
get the most out of those ingredients. And we do
other different technologies and treatments to help improve the overall effect,
not just short term but long term as well. And
(04:54):
so I think the idea of comboing technology with all
the things we traditionally do in science, that's like the
magic that you see where people want that extra oof.
It really does exist, but you have to really understand
all facets of this stuff. And it's fascinating, but it's
changing so fast.
Speaker 2 (05:08):
But the lasers is that what we read about when
like an actress for a big award comes into you
to get her skin looking absolutely luscious.
Speaker 1 (05:17):
We have that aspect of our office, the cosmetic side.
I myself personally, I love my scar case, as you
mentioned my hair cases, both because they're very emotional conditions.
But it's like, how do we approach cosmetics? For me,
it's artistic. What bothers somebody? And how do I fix it?
And so if it's a red carpet, we might use
a certain kind of laser. If I'm doing resurfacing, if
there's wrinkles, if I like there's something called a blade
of laser, I can literally remove the top layer of
(05:39):
your skin and give you almost like a facelift type result.
The downtime is decently significant, but you don't go under
the knife. So there's so many things we can do.
But I think the idea is again like as the
world evolves and technology evolves, what are our best options?
Speaker 2 (05:53):
Well, you are very well known for your work repairing scars.
He is a very important case that he worked on.
A young boy. Bridger was rescuing his sister from a
dog and dog who was biting her.
Speaker 1 (06:07):
It's an inspirational and very tragic story. His sister was
being attacked by a dog and he got in the way.
Speaker 2 (06:12):
Was this the family dog?
Speaker 3 (06:13):
I think it was the neighbors.
Speaker 2 (06:14):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (06:14):
And this is after everything happened and the dog had
ripped off a good part of his face. They asked him,
like why he did it, and he just said He's like,
if somebody has to die, it has I'd rather it
be me than my sister. He was five years old, right,
And it's like, how do you not want to help
somebody like that?
Speaker 3 (06:26):
And you know it's been touching. It happened during the pandemic.
Speaker 1 (06:30):
I remember back then if I talk about it now,
but we were even scared to bring him in because
back then nobody was flying. It was very like, we
don't know what to do. But it's like, what do
you do when you need to help somebody?
Speaker 2 (06:38):
How soon after the accident were you able to work
on his face?
Speaker 1 (06:41):
Traditional dogmas, you wait up to a year to treat
somebody after surgery or procedure for repair. But that's old
school and part of like kind of where my technique is,
and I think a lot of the dermatologists now it's
treat as soon as possible.
Speaker 3 (06:52):
If you like.
Speaker 1 (06:53):
There's times where if I'm doing a surgery on a
skin cancer, I might do a deep layer of sutures
laser and then put a top layer of sutures on
top to get the best cosmetic outcome. And so with
him safely, legally ethically, the quickest we could get him
in that was what we did.
Speaker 3 (07:07):
We treat him aggressively.
Speaker 1 (07:08):
So it was doctor Mahon and Utah Corey who also
helped with that case as well, and we had to
kind of figure out how do we get him because
Bridger was based in Wyoming, how do we get him
to one of us, because you know, in those situations,
a couple of weeks, a couple of months can make
all the difference. And this is the rest of his life, right,
So we was just five years old. Yeah, and so
I saw him recently. It was super sweet. So I'll
never forget his dad. Just his only requests. I hope
(07:29):
to god he can smile one day like that was
the only request from the family, And it was fun
to see him in the family catch up. You know,
now he's smiling, laughing his own person. So it's been
really fun to watch.
Speaker 2 (07:38):
Did you have to do skin grass? From other parts
of his body or.
Speaker 1 (07:41):
No, we were lucky because we got it pretty early.
And so the idea is we we resurfaced really aggressively.
And I don't get emotional often. I still remember I
tears in my eyes when I was lasering him because
it's like you feel it, right, you know he feels it,
but you feel his father felt that we were all
kind of just like doing our best, and the poor
guy he took it like a champion.
Speaker 2 (07:57):
He was a charming boy and he looks very, very good.
Speaker 1 (08:01):
That's a case that for the rest of my life
I'll remember. That's kind of the why, right, why do
we do this stuff? And that's definitely a why.
Speaker 2 (08:07):
Well, it's nice that there are doctors like you who
can tackle such a really devastating situation like that. So
he's been healing for how many years now.
Speaker 3 (08:17):
I think it's for three years.
Speaker 1 (08:18):
Yeah, and so, and like I said, as he grows,
we're going to keep watching the scar and see if
we have to do anything else.
Speaker 2 (08:22):
In your office. The office, by the way, is very
different from most doctors' offices.
Speaker 3 (08:27):
The spaceship.
Speaker 2 (08:28):
It is like a spaceship. It's white and red. It
is like a spaceship inside. You know what impresses me
about offices is the equipment, and you have the latest
of the latest of the latest, and that's what that's
what I'm looking for. I am looking for youthful enthusiasm
and knowledge and good equipment. And I was very impressed
with your office and even and in the last couple
(08:49):
of years it's even gotten more impressive.
Speaker 1 (08:51):
We get to help develop some of the lasers as well.
Like I always think about the people who are in
my office, but those are four walls, right, and it's
like the people beyond that. So impact I think can
be measured many different ways. And when you help with
developing technology or even doing clinical trials, which we do
a lot, of your impact then go beyond those four walls.
And I think that's a really important thing as a
doctor that you should think about, which we didn't traditionally
(09:12):
do for a long time. It was always like one
foot front, the other head down, do your work. But
now you know, the world has become a lot smaller,
and so I think it is an opportunity for us
to advance much quicker as we than we otherwise would
expect to.
Speaker 2 (09:23):
Well, I always also look I mean when it comes
to skincare, I always look at the doctor and what
kind of skin does the doctor have? How's the doctor
taking care of himself or herself? And you also you
have this practice in hair replacement, and you also did
a video on your Instagram about you getting hair replacement.
Speaker 1 (09:43):
Well, we were doing it on one of our patients.
I think it's important to educate people. A lot of
the stuff is there's a like cosmetics itself is a
wild wild West.
Speaker 3 (09:51):
Like let's be honest.
Speaker 1 (09:52):
Our expertise is in our education and part of our
job and much now you do it. You educate or
you've been educating for a long time in terms of
like how to take care of yourself, how to you
know how to cook well, how to take care of
farms right? And our job as doctors to educate. So
I use social media honestly as an education tool and
to demystify a lot of these things because I know
(10:12):
I can't see everybody right. Like again, I don't know
maybe a year, two years, three years, I don't know
what my next appointment is. But it doesn't mean I
can't help somebody who's going to go see a dermatologist
or a local doctor be educated to go, you know,
get the help.
Speaker 3 (10:23):
That they need.
Speaker 2 (10:24):
Can we talk about the hair replacement a little bit?
What is your procedure? So because I have so many
friends who are you know, getting you know a little
older and really want to do something about their thinning
hair and men and women. But it's very interesting because
they're talking about going to Nepal or to India or starchy.
Speaker 3 (10:46):
So it's interesting. We do two different things.
Speaker 1 (10:48):
So one is there was a project we called Hairstem
that works on my Skin Medicinals platform, but we create
a tech platform where doctors can custom compound ingredients for
hair growth really anything. And what happened was a lot
of these patients who were not getting their traditional results
with the traditional medications, the doctors were starting to use
certain ingredients that we help put together and their patients
(11:08):
started growing hair. So I think they did a really
good job of providing that next layer in terms of innovation.
Because hair, we've had the same two FDA ingredients for
our all like twenty years or so, and so the
idea was like, how do we use technology to provide
better options for a patients. So that took off quite
a bit. So that was a topical, non invasive option
for transplants. Let's say you want to lower your hair,
or if you want to fill in the back area
or whatever that is. We actually can take hairs from
(11:30):
the back of your head and place them wherever we
need to. The art of it is how do you
place them in a way that a the person looks
like a normal like how they should kind of like
a like a cosmetic procedure. Right, nobody should not look
like themselves, and so the idea is like even with
your hair, like, you have to kind of visualize what
is this person going to look like?
Speaker 3 (11:46):
How is going to be natural?
Speaker 1 (11:48):
You can do a strip method, which is a little
bit more old school, or you can do the FUI,
which is we take individual once we kind of hide
the scarring so you don't really see much of anything,
and then we place it. The only kind of downside
their long procedures. We did one last week. It was
sixteen hours long. I think fifteen hours.
Speaker 2 (12:01):
Wow, that's a long time.
Speaker 1 (12:03):
So there, it's quite the process, but the results are
worth it.
Speaker 3 (12:06):
I think you.
Speaker 2 (12:07):
Did it, and I remember seeing the pictures of you
with your your you know, your face got a little
swollen from afterward, But your hair looks amazing, thank you.
Speaker 1 (12:16):
My reasoning was a little bit different partly than most
because we teach it and we educate people and you
kind of have to go through it.
Speaker 2 (12:21):
To I always ask doctors, have you done this? Yeah,
like you have you had cataract surgery or have you
had you know?
Speaker 1 (12:29):
For me, I did a little like just kind of
like a shaping, if you will, and I thought it
made such a huge difference. But also I gave feedback
to the company and we help kind of design different
things that different elements that would improve.
Speaker 3 (12:40):
That's innovation, right, you're.
Speaker 2 (12:41):
A guinea pig. But also and you're learning tremendously from
this kind of absolutely, and as a result you can
do it very successfully. On people will cause this hair
loss in the first place.
Speaker 3 (12:51):
That's the thing. There's so many factors there.
Speaker 1 (12:53):
I mean, obviously genetics is number one, but it could
be anything from hormone issues to vitamin deficiencies, vitamin dia.
I tell everybody check the vitamin DM very big on that.
I think things like iron people forget that. A lot
of people aren't efficient these days. I even had a
patient I'll never forget. She came in she had been
losing a lot of hair, and I've seen her for
years for cosmetic stuff, and I was like, no, no, no,
this is not a hair loss consultation. I need you
(13:14):
to go see your primary doctor. We to do blood work,
do this. She came back three months later, double miss
it to me. She had breast cancer and a lot
of times your hair. My kind of thoughts always the
hair is a window to the soul, not the eyes.
The hair can tell you stuff, so it's always worth
seeing an expert because that's.
Speaker 2 (13:29):
Where you start finding hairs on your pillow.
Speaker 3 (13:31):
Correct.
Speaker 1 (13:32):
Yeah, And I mean, look you have like you probably
one of the more iconic hairstyles I think out there.
But also I would argue one of the things you
do better than most people. You are healthy, right, You
minimize exposures to things, you eat well, all these things,
everything plays a part in your body and your body's reflection.
Speaker 2 (13:46):
With you totally ru with you, and you have to
find the things that maybe you're lacking and replace those things,
add them to your diet whatever. I'd like to get
my blood tested twice a year just to see that
they know if I'm feeling hired me. I work so
hard but and tiredness is just part of overwork, I
think for me. But I did find out that I
was a little low on iron, so it was such
(14:08):
an easy fix. Yeah, and so those things are extremely important.
I think more doctors should really stress the fact that
a few good, but you.
Speaker 1 (14:18):
Were proactive, right, so maybe like two three, four months,
but you start noticing more hair break if you didn't
get it fixed or treated right, hair break age, you
might notice other things fatigued, tired. I'm a big proponent.
So again I've shifted my practice a bit less about chasing. Again,
that's why I have a different cosmetic I think angle
than most people. I like to think of proactive like
what do you do like I like to build structures.
If you're going to get botox, okay, putting your calendar done,
(14:40):
don't think about other things that's in their calendar for fillers.
If you're going to do fillers once a year, put
in the calendar, have it situated.
Speaker 3 (14:46):
Don't chase other things. Always as bad aest.
Speaker 2 (14:48):
But can you help your patients with those with placing
it on the calendar. I mean you can tell them
when they should do it, you can. Yeah, And I
think I think people don't realize that too. They could
ask the doctor when's my next visit?
Speaker 1 (14:59):
And I think you make the is it's a year
ahead of time and put in your eyical or whatever
it is. Even lasers, right, I have a role with
my patients, Like I might do a laser once a
year when you're in your thirties, twice a year once
you get forties, and then I tweak bending on like
whatever issue we're looking at. But I but the problem
is we live in a world where you see something
on Instagram or TikTok and you're like I need this,
And you know, I think you're a great example.
Speaker 3 (15:18):
You're very structured. Right. We look at a lot of
like again, we've talked.
Speaker 1 (15:21):
About sun damage before with you. We did the imaging
of your face with the visia.
Speaker 2 (15:25):
Oh yeah, that was very interesting.
Speaker 1 (15:26):
Yeah, but we can people can't call visia. Yeah, but
we were looking at the sun damage underneath your skin.
Speaker 3 (15:32):
Right.
Speaker 1 (15:32):
That is one of those things where like I, as
a doctor, not cosmetic a doctor, have to be aware
that you have sun damaged. Like this is the reason
why ingredients are important. This is the reason why we
look at even with sunscreens, what is the evolution of
it is this the best we can do? Are there
are different supplements we can take to enhance our UV protection.
This is why, like again how we do our practice.
We're more looking forward as opposed to backwards. And the
(15:53):
idea is like, how do we create a plan almost
like a workout plan?
Speaker 2 (15:56):
Right?
Speaker 1 (15:56):
People do their like food planning ahead of time, their
workouts sead of time. This is like I think aging
well nowadays is also about living well and creating that
structure in.
Speaker 2 (16:03):
Place beyond your practice. You can see that doctor thinks
about a lot of things, not just not just giving
fillers and botox and making people feel better about their looks,
(16:24):
but really going to the crooks of skincare. You've been
called a doctorpreneur. Do you identify more as a doctor
nowadays or as an entrepreneur?
Speaker 3 (16:34):
Always doctor doctor.
Speaker 1 (16:36):
Where our job is and even the way we use business,
it's really it's a means to I think, reach a
broader audience. But I will always identify as a doctor
because our job is to serve people, and you know,
every project I do has that in the back of
the mind.
Speaker 2 (16:49):
But you at the same time, you have pulled together
the resources to get four companies off the ground. Tell
us about those companies.
Speaker 1 (16:56):
Yeah, so, I mean I've been fortunate. Maybe it's addntioning
working add but skin medicinals I'm insanely proud of. That
was a project just to lower drug pricing. Back in
twenty eighteen. If you remember drug the generic drug pricing skyrocketed,
and you're the patients that came in, you'd have a
twenty dollars medication that's now four hundred dollars.
Speaker 3 (17:15):
And so what we did is we looked at like.
Speaker 2 (17:16):
People who had to take that medicine were feeling terribly impoverished.
Speaker 1 (17:21):
Yeah, they couldn't they couldn't do it, they couldn't afford it. Right,
I'm not going to let somebody choose between food and
their medication, right, So we did a little bit like
at that point, compounding was just starting to take off.
It actually had been the predominant way of creating medications
before I think nineteen mid nineteen nineties, but it was
very like kind of an old school approach with the
facts and all that. So we built a digital platform
to make to use technology to improve the access to
(17:43):
these compounding medications, which could be literally one hundredth the price.
The second part of that was that we can create
personalized medication so I could pick and choose what ingredients
you need for whatever condition it was.
Speaker 3 (17:53):
We've already saved healthcare.
Speaker 1 (17:54):
I think about probably almost five hundred million dollars maybe more.
We have about fifteen thousand terms around the country that
use it. And it really was a project to get
lower pricing. But the number of people who've written in
who said like, hey, this is saved me, you know,
it's it's it's been very humbling, but that's why you
build things, right.
Speaker 2 (18:12):
You don't what that company is called skin Medicinals.
Speaker 3 (18:14):
Skin Medicinals.
Speaker 1 (18:15):
Yeah, we're now doing more generic meds. We're doing we're
trying to work through with actual like branded medications as well.
Like the whole idea is access right and how do
we also build with a dermatologists as well because part
of people what people don't realize it's very difficult as
a doctor to get access to these medicaid It's not
like we don't want people to get these medications. So
we're building infrastructure to make the doctor's life simpler. But
(18:36):
it's a tough process because there's a lot of red
tape around that, and for good reason, but I.
Speaker 3 (18:40):
Guess the best way.
Speaker 1 (18:41):
But it's it's it's it's a big patience pusher, if
you will, because you have to do everything the right way,
which I'm a big advocate for.
Speaker 3 (18:47):
But it takes time.
Speaker 2 (18:48):
But I wounded my foot or actually my cat and
my dog wounded my legs, and one doctor recommended me
that I go to a compounder and get a special
kind of painkiller. Boy did that work?
Speaker 1 (19:03):
Yeah, No, compounding is it's really like part of the analogy.
But it's like a cook in the kitchen, right, like
for you mixing and matching ingredients. You can do what
you want to versus getting something pre made and just
warming it up right, and the idea. I think as
doctors it's our duty to understand ingredients and formulations and
then being able to utilize that for the best of
our patients.
Speaker 2 (19:20):
So you worked with Hailey Beaber, the beautiful, beautiful wife
of Justin Bieber, my friend who I roasted and his
twenty first vers just.
Speaker 3 (19:29):
Still the funniest five ten minutes of TV I've ever seen.
Speaker 2 (19:31):
Oh my gosh. Well you did develop with her a line,
a very successful line of lovely skincare. What were her
priorities for skincare?
Speaker 1 (19:41):
So, Haley, I mean you've met her. She's a brilliant mind,
very creative. I think with her growing up in her generation,
there's a lot of marketing and kind of noise, right,
and she wanted to simplify everything and provide almost I
think she said the white T shirt, if you will,
of skincare, where it's just basics that are essentials and
then utilize the scigence aspect of it. So it was
(20:01):
very ingredient based, right. So there are things from peptides
to nice cinemi to polyglutamate, Like each product had very
specific ingredients, but really just what you needed, right, not
putting all the excess things in it. And it's been
really fun to watch that grow.
Speaker 2 (20:15):
We it's a simple packaging, good packaging, but simple, not overdone.
You don't have to open fifteen boxes to get to
a tiny little tub of I cream. You know, it's
very nice. It's very nice and artistically designed.
Speaker 1 (20:28):
Yeah, I think, but that generation, I think they want
authenticity and transparency. And you know, she's been great about
connecting with her audience and she's very involved. I mean
she I've gotten text messages her with from her who
knows what time about ingredients and studies and things like that.
But you want somebody who really does care about it.
And that aspect of it, I think is it resonates.
(20:49):
That's why people can kind of see the authenticity of
the brand.
Speaker 2 (20:52):
So you're very passionate about formulations of products. What makes
a good formulation, So.
Speaker 1 (20:57):
There's a lot of things again, much like cooking. I
love that comparison, but it's not just a pinch of
that or a little bit of so and so. The
percentage matters, right, A two percent nice in the mind,
for example, might be a really good fanti inflammator. If
I want to brighten, I might go at higher concentrations.
How you mix and match ingredients, right, So we talked
about hair and we did a lot of compounding.
Speaker 3 (21:15):
For hair.
Speaker 1 (21:16):
I would use let's say monoxidal. Traditional monoxidal, you get
x amount into your scalp. If I put something like
retinoc acid, I can enhance the penetration this monoxida.
Speaker 3 (21:24):
It's been shown in study.
Speaker 1 (21:25):
They figured that out exactly. So a formulation really is
much like a recipe. It's a grouping of different ingredients
that can get you a one plus one equals three
at least. I like to think about it, right, where
these ingredients can synergize and also like you keep all
the other things in mind, tolerability, efficacy, and even the
potential side effects, right, I mean, anything can have side effects.
People can have allergies. My old thing with fragrance. For example,
(21:48):
four percent of able people have fragrance allergy, which is
not a lot of people.
Speaker 3 (21:51):
But if you have a million people, try.
Speaker 1 (21:52):
A product people, but four percent, only four, But that
means forty thousand people out of a million people can
have an allergy.
Speaker 3 (21:57):
So it's a lot more than you realize.
Speaker 1 (21:59):
Particular, really, if you're formulating brands for the world, so
you can have specific allergies of specific ingredients. There might
be a certain scent or whatever it is beyond the
traditional fragrance, but there's a baseline population. No matter what
fragrance you give them, they'll start getting that kind of
that reddish we call the macular popular type rash, or
the itchiness around the neck and eyelids and things like that.
Speaker 2 (22:18):
In an interview, you said that we nerd out on ingredients.
Let's talk about some of the ingredients that you use
and what science says about them.
Speaker 3 (22:28):
So peptides, So peptides are fun.
Speaker 1 (22:30):
As it's been picking up steam over the last two
years or so, there's a little fragments of amino acids.
Think of them as almost parts of proteins. Their job
is actually to trick your body into going to production
motor signaling your body to do stuff. So whether you're
producing collagen or lastin or telling a muscle contract a
little bit less, they kind of almost like I just
getting little messengers that go in and tell your body, hey,
(22:51):
maybe you should consider doing this without having the over
ingredients that you would otherwise be using.
Speaker 2 (22:56):
Yeah. So on just this morning, I put on super
peptide serum. Yeah, I don't know what it's doing, if
it's doing anything, but so it speeds things up.
Speaker 1 (23:05):
Yeah, So I mean, depending on whatever. There's so many
different types of peptides, so it's really what you're targeting.
But I think it's a good point where with peptides
all these different products, it's interesting to see who's saying
what because there's a science the right people. Anybody can
say peptide, but what does that mean?
Speaker 2 (23:19):
Right?
Speaker 1 (23:19):
And it's worth looking into, like what the literally they've
done in these studies and if they actually work.
Speaker 2 (23:23):
But you know, all of a sudden there were peptides
and I had never seen them before before, as you
say about five years ago. What about nian and cinemides?
Speaker 3 (23:32):
Nice?
Speaker 1 (23:33):
It's a nice and it's a great formulation ingredient, it's
anti inflammatory.
Speaker 3 (23:36):
We use it all Actually, what's skin of medicine?
Speaker 1 (23:38):
We use it a lot for improving tolerabilitycause a lot
of these medications can be a bit harsh. So I
love it almost as like as like a stabilizing type
ingredient to help people kind of just keep everything at bay,
even for acne.
Speaker 2 (23:48):
Cowuld you use it for rerittinal with retinal y.
Speaker 1 (23:52):
Yeah, so we with our skin medicinals we have a
formulation with trettono and a lot of people get irritation
with trettonoid, so we have hyaluronic acid in their term
which is an anti inflammatory, and then nice cinemite as
well to help hopefully keep the tolerability at base that
people can work their way up and then they don't
have any issues.
Speaker 2 (24:07):
Okay. Vitamin C that's been a big big thing for skincare.
Speaker 3 (24:12):
Yeah, so vitamin C.
Speaker 1 (24:13):
You and I have talked about this a lot, so
vitamin C is a fascinating ingredient. There's been two articles
and I think the last six months questioning of vitamin
C actually does anything. I look at it kind of
like milk, where we were told for years and years
you have to drink milk. Out drink milk, or your
bones were all break. We stop drinking milk, and somehow
we're all okay.
Speaker 3 (24:28):
Vitamin C.
Speaker 1 (24:29):
I think certain brands do a very good job with it,
but the vast majority of the don't do the research.
A lot of vitamin c's within minutes of putting it
on your skin, they don't work. So think about somebody
who is using it for anti accident protection. You're going
out in the sun and you're you just spend one
hundred dollars on a product, one hundred dollars in a
product and it's not doing anything. Let's say you forget
your sunscreen, be like, oh okay, I have this, this
and this, and it's not doing anything. Some of them
(24:50):
within the bottle themselves are inactivated, so they're not working right,
and you're spending so much money. So a lot of
the stuff that we've been you and I have been
kind of going in and you know, again, not to
go too far into it. You and I have worked
don you're a student of the game, if you all right,
and you like to learn about ingredients, and we've gone
through deep dives of certain products and formations that I
made stuff for you, but around the anti accident world,
(25:10):
because I do think that we've evolved from iPod to
iPhone and with technology, even with ingredients, Can I stabilize
vitamin C longer? Can I find something that's better than
vitamin C? And the answers yes, And again I'm not
saying all vitamin c's are bad, but I am saying
that the vast majority of the ones that are on
the market are not doing what you think they are.
And again I think Dan had mentioned that as well.
Oh yeah, and part of like you know again, I
(25:32):
look at somebody like you who's wearing sunscreen, doing things
the right way. Maybe you have been using vitamin C
for a long time. Maybe that's why we're still not getting,
you know, the results.
Speaker 2 (25:40):
Now, a few years ago, you and I worked on
products containing CBD. Without the government backing of these of
these products, it's very difficult to put them out on
the marketplace. What about CBD Does it really work in
skincare with youth?
Speaker 3 (25:54):
So say, it's a good question.
Speaker 1 (25:55):
That's a great example of like I think, sometimes marketing
gets a hold too fast and it doesn't allow the
science to catch up.
Speaker 3 (26:01):
CBD actor is a great anti inflammatory.
Speaker 1 (26:04):
It's one of those things where their actual clinical trials
going on. I've heard they're all doing very well. I'm
sure they'll be publishing over the next couple years, but
they take you up to seven years to these trials
to go through. I think there's something there, But the
problem is all these people start, and it's with anything,
they'll start claiming crazy things without the science to back
it up. People start questioning the integrity of these things,
and then you kind of lose the audience. And so
that's why, yeah, we started looking at CBD. I think
(26:26):
the government regulation and again there's reasons for why people
do certain things, but I think it got kind of
caught in the crosswinds, if you will, of a lot
of different places. But in a weird way, it kind
of worked out because then we started looking at other ingredients,
and again I think with your concerns and us talking
about antioxidents, it kind of pushed us through a different direction,
but in a weird way. That's why we found really
cool discoveries along the way.
Speaker 2 (26:48):
Toners.
Speaker 1 (26:49):
So I got kind of yelled at on the internet
about this. I'm a not a big fan of toners.
Speaker 2 (26:55):
So what areners in your mind?
Speaker 1 (26:57):
So, toners were initially created to balance your pH whatever
that means. Right after you cleanse your skin, your body
does that naturally, like it normally does that. It might
take a couple of seconds, but it does it. But
a lot of skincare brands are like, okay, we can
just market this thing is going to rebalance yourph. And
they're very alcohol basically tighten your skin, so you feel
like they're doing something you don't need it, right, And
(27:18):
so the traditional toner is not what it is today.
Now they're more like essences essences. I look, I think
it's just a great step for improving the skin barrier.
But the current toners are just hydrating ingreens. They don't
use alcohol, they don't use any that stuff. But they're
just marketers to things.
Speaker 3 (27:31):
They're soothing.
Speaker 1 (27:32):
Yeah, but that's not what a toner was, right, and
so people still use the name toner. The reason why
I say you don't need it because the toner in
its previous form no longer exists. Really just using an essence,
which are fine, and a lot of times even with
road we have a glae. I actually brought you something,
but that glazing milk is really an essence that you
can use to kind of nurture your barrier and use
it kind of pre makeup as a base, and I
(27:52):
think it does help overall, just whether it's the appearance
of your makeup but also your skin health throughout the
rest of the day.
Speaker 2 (27:59):
Are any other ingredients that we should avoid?
Speaker 1 (28:02):
I think generally speaking, I mean, look, there's all these
there's a whole laundry list of things out there. I
think it's more like the trends, the TikTok trends and
Instagram trends and people doing do it yourself masks and.
Speaker 2 (28:13):
Do well not only ingredients, but procedures too.
Speaker 3 (28:16):
Even procedures.
Speaker 1 (28:16):
I think one of the big things is that you
have to know who you're going to like more FISA.
It's gotten really big, right and I'm not against me.
Speaker 2 (28:23):
What is that?
Speaker 1 (28:24):
It's a radio frequency micro needlenks. They use a certain
kind of energy and then with micro needling to deliver
results deeper into your skin.
Speaker 3 (28:31):
The problem is where do we use it? How do
you use it?
Speaker 1 (28:33):
There's so many nuances there, and really the issue is
most people, again they just say I want more VSA
A twenty something that does not need more VSA. Somebody
who has maybe some crapiness around the stomach, around the knees,
would they benefit, like probably, But again, who's doing it?
How much energy are they delivering? There's so many nuances stuff,
And that's where I get really nervous, because we start seeing,
(28:53):
like a part of my early practice, I built it
on fixing kind of mistakes from other places. And when
you see so much, you become a bit wary of everything,
and you get almost like you're again. Probably why I
educate so much on social media is because I've seen
more than I probably should, and so we try our
best to prevent it.
Speaker 2 (29:18):
Well, some ingredients, as you just said, deliver holidays from
other ingredients. What does that mean in.
Speaker 1 (29:25):
Terms of enhancing ingredients? So there's a lot of different
things we do. Let's say, for example, there's you know
ingredient A and it's known and traditionally as an antioxidant,
right ingredient B might be combined with ingredient A, and
actually the combination of those might be anti inflammatory. And
we do this a lot in formulations on the medical side,
but also on the OTC side. So a lot of
like what we do now with ingredients is looking at
(29:45):
again downstream function and how do we make complexes that
can really get you the result you want, not just
the marketing of it, but scientifically, can we show that
these ingredients are complementary, just like again like a certain
taste in a recipe where if you put a little
bit of this, maybe the salt pulls out a little
bit more tape, you know, whatever it is. That's how
we look at a lot of these formulations.
Speaker 2 (30:03):
And do you ever teach? You're such you're so eloquent
about all this stuff.
Speaker 1 (30:06):
I used to teach a lot more. I teach at
Mount Sinai, which we're both fans of. I teach their
the residents once a month. I use my social the
best I can. I give lectures I to give I
think two lectures are of American Academy of Durham next
week in San Diego. So I do my best to teach,
but I think the fun part about social media is
that I think it gives me an ability. Like even
today I post something you know, within a few minutes
(30:27):
has ten thousand, twenty thousand and three thousand views. That's
a whole Madison Square garden with the people who's just
been educated. It's incredible, right, And so you can touch
so many more people and so many more lives, I
think through social and that's how I try to teach.
And I think that's like again, that's the future of how.
Speaker 2 (30:43):
We're going to be communicating and how do we find
you on social media.
Speaker 1 (30:46):
So my tag is at doctor Bonasali d R B
H A n U S Ali for those who might
not be able to spell it, but you know we're
in Hudson Yards.
Speaker 3 (30:55):
We have some incredible doctors.
Speaker 2 (30:57):
Definitely. Oh so let's let's just do quickly basic skin
care for a twenty year old.
Speaker 1 (31:04):
For twenty year old, I would keep it simple. Cleanser,
moisturize with SPF, and you can consider starting your retinol
at nighttime, but you don't have to yet.
Speaker 2 (31:12):
Okay, thirties, I would.
Speaker 1 (31:13):
Definitely have the retinal or retinoid. And then again, just
as a quick reminder, retinoids help you with your texture,
your tone, pores, pigmentation if you have it, the increase
cell turner's almost like expliation and with wrinkle prevention or
slowing down. So you should be on it and obviously
acting as well, because a lot of people use it
for acne. That would definitely do. And I would consider
then an antioxidant, especially if you're out in the sun
quite a bit, and forties forties, I would definitely have
(31:36):
an antioccident. I think at that point now you start
looking at what are the things that bother you? Right?
So the way I look at like your serum is
your active. Your active can be hydration when you're younger
or when you're older, but when you're in your thirties
and forties, is it pigmentation? Is it redness?
Speaker 3 (31:49):
Is it?
Speaker 1 (31:50):
What is that pathology or trying to solve. So you
have your cleanser, your moisturize or your serum and then
your SPF on top and at nighttime again, your retinoid
is something you don't give up.
Speaker 2 (32:00):
Okay, and how do you get retinoid? But what do
you look for?
Speaker 1 (32:03):
So retinoid's just a vitamin A, so it could be
retinols which are over the counter or retinoic acid, which
is prescription. I will always push their prescription because it's
just stronger and it works better. Again, formulation is fun, right,
So you can use retinyls and add you know, an
alphydroxy acid or beta hydrox to get better drying. It
is drying, but actually one of the reasons why it
makes your skin look more taut and the poorest smaller.
It removes excess oil. So it actually is part of
(32:25):
the job of the retinoid to reduce the oil make
you a little bit dry. But you can do different techniques,
techniques like the sandwich technique, which I think I posted
about before. We can apply moisturis before and afterwards. I
like argon oil, so after you use a retinol, put
a little bit of argan oil which actually helps keep
acneat bay and also helps keep your skin hydrated after
a retinol.
Speaker 3 (32:41):
So there's a lot of little tricks we can use.
Speaker 2 (32:42):
Yeah, boy, write a book.
Speaker 3 (32:46):
You're a number one hundred, right, I'll get to one
and we'll please.
Speaker 2 (32:49):
Let's write a book about skincare. We should. Can you
talk about some of the products that you've recommended for me?
Speaker 3 (32:55):
Sure?
Speaker 1 (32:56):
One of the things you and I have done I
think again, more as scientists than and educators. We've really
looked at the science. I have worked on that. I mean,
I've worked on a new antioccid and complex with you.
But we looked at antioxidants because for somebody like you,
I like you are real. You really are out on
the farm. I've I've come to your place and you're
on the tractor doing who knows what, and I'm running
around and like, ow, she had so much energy. But
(33:17):
you were a living, breathing example of being active, and
so we looked at, you know, antioxidant. My big concern
with you is always going to be sun protection, right.
We've talked about developing like a supplement that actually helps
protect you with the in addition to sunscreen, not to
replace it.
Speaker 2 (33:31):
Yes, a supplement that you would ingest correct.
Speaker 1 (33:33):
Yeah, And the science is there, right, Like I'm not
a big supplement guy, but there's science where certain things work.
The problem is because of marketing and social media, people
put out god knows what, and our job as doctors
kind of debunk what the you know, the non factual
information is versus the factual information, and we've played with
the stuff. Maybe one day, we'll bring it to the masses.
But I think, you know, with us, like it's been
(33:53):
kind of fun to discover things, and even that facial
we did with you, like we delivered specific ingredients. I
remember Daisy called me like a week later and she's like,
what did you do to Martha? Like her skin looks insane?
But that's the fine. I don't think people realize that
are Martha facial? If you will, it's unofficial facial that
we have in our facial lab. You're the only person
who gets it's not available to the public.
Speaker 2 (34:12):
So people are talking about protecting the skin barrier, what
does that mean?
Speaker 1 (34:18):
So the skin barrier itself is really interesting. It's kind
of like you know, you've seen you saw that big
push with the biome and the gut biome and how
that can really affect your overall health with.
Speaker 3 (34:27):
Your skin bearer.
Speaker 1 (34:27):
It's very similar so rosetia, for example, it's an inflammatory
condition and they found more recently that it actually is
a compromi there's a kind of a disfigured skin barrier
or a dysfunctional excuse me, skin barrier that might be
a root cause in the entire roseesia picture. Even acne
or infections and a lot of different things that we
don't realize are actually caused because our skin barrier is off.
We spent decades exfoliating ourselves to death, and what happened
(34:50):
is you compromise this barrier whose job was singularly to
protect you. And so that's why the goal of a
lot of skincare now is to moisturize, hydrate, protect, because
that's what's going to protect your skin long term, so
it can do what it's supposed to, just protect you.
Speaker 2 (35:03):
And is social media more harmful or helpful when it
comes to skincare education, it's.
Speaker 3 (35:08):
A loaded question.
Speaker 1 (35:09):
Yeah, I think it's harmful and that people compare themselves
a lot. Right. It's there's a lot of negativity on
social media, and we've talked to you about, you know,
in with you people. Every time you post something, it's
always like it's more negative in the beginning and then
it becomes positive. But I think the opposite is true too.
It's inspirational. Right, you did the SI cover. I've never
told you this, but the number of people who've come
(35:29):
to my office and have been like I needed to
see that because they've hit a certain age and they
almost feel like they can't live a certain way. The
number of my own patients who have been like that
has changed my outlook on life. Like that is impactful, right,
And they see this picture, it's not just a picture.
It represents so much more. And I think social media,
when used well, can be equal parts inspirational, equal parts educational,
(35:50):
and it's a net positive, but you have to put
the kind of levers in place to control it. And
with kids and stuff, I do like that they're looking
a little bit more about how kids are affected, because again,
you don't want to compare yourself, you know, Again, we
treat some of the more well known people on earth,
they don't even look like some of the victures that
are out there, right, sometimes the best representation of them.
And I think that authentic conversation needs to be had,
whether it's with parents and you know their kids, or
(36:12):
even doctors with their patients.
Speaker 2 (36:14):
How would you like to change the future of skincare?
Speaker 1 (36:17):
We're asked us in a couple of different interviews over
the last couple of weeks in media, and they're like,
what do you think is going to happen over the
next decade with skincare? And I'm happy to say I
think the average consumer is way more educated. I will
hopefully use my platform to continue to educate, but I
think science is about to take focus. I think, you know,
germs are becoming the influencers, which I think is so
interesting and fascinating, and I love that people want to
(36:38):
educate themselves. And I think the next decade is going
to be defined by science and all the fluff is
going to go away, the marketing, all that kind of stuff.
It's gonna people are still gonna market, but the quality
will rise to the top. And I think people will
now look at much more efficacious formulas that actually work
and say what do what they say, as opposed to
maybe trying to trick people into hoping that something actually occurs.
Speaker 2 (36:58):
One day. Well, all this is such great information. We
could talk and talk and talk and talk, but I
think I would like our audience to digest all this information.
And you can follow doctor Vonisli at doctor d R
capital B h A N s U A l I
(37:18):
on all social media channels for more skin care expertise.
You could change that to doctor.
Speaker 1 (37:24):
B listen if you know somebody at Instagram, or take
that and get me doctor B. I'm down to the
take of it.
Speaker 2 (37:29):
Thank you so much, doctor B. And I look forward
to my next facial at your beautiful offices in Hudson
Yards and UH and I look forward to continuing to
work with you on extraordinary, fantastic, useful products. Absolutely, thank you,
Thank you for having me
Host
Martha Stewart
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