Ep. 602: Are Suppressors Good or Bad for Hunters and Hunting?

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:08):
This is the Meat Eater Podcast coming at you shirtless, severely,
bug bitten, and in my case, underwear listeningcast. You can't
predict anything. The Meat Eater Podcast is brought to you
by First Light. Whether you're checking trail cams, hanging deer stands,
or scouting for el First Light has performance apparel to
support every hunter in every environment. Check it out at

(00:32):
first light dot com. F I R S T L
I T E dot com. All Right, everybody, I just
saw ont of this. It's real clever. Think about this
for a minute. You're listening to this show with your ears.
See what I'm going with this? Look I don't need
to hack on you know anyone that camp. I mean,

(00:52):
if you're listening, you're listening with your ears, and we're
gonna talk about your ears. We're gonna talk about all
things human hearing and ear ears. Because we're going to
talk about a bunch of things, but we're gonna get
We're gonna dig real heavy into suppressors, which historically were
called silencers. Everybody knows the old movies and you sneak

(01:14):
in and whoever James Bond shoots someone with a suppressor,
and who goes so not a silencer. The correct term
would be a suppressor. And suppressors are more and more
and more and more becoming part of the national conversation,
more widely available, easier to get them, more information out there,

(01:35):
people finding out that you know that a gun doesn't
just have to be so loud that it damages your
hearing and that makes your kids afraid of shooting and
all that. And there's a remedy for this, which has
been large, like over time, historically it's been like a pain,
and he has to get a suppressor. Some countries. I

(01:55):
always found this interesting. I remember being the first time
I ever shot a suppressor. I was in Scotland and
everything's suppressed in Scotland, and I said to a God,
I can't believe they let you hunt with those, because
this is twelve years ago, thirteen years ago. Like, I
can't believe they let you hunt with those. He says,
I can't believe they let you hunt without them. They
don't shoot them without them, And it was weird. They're like,

(02:18):
you got to go through hell to buy a gun
in Scotland, but you can buy a suppressor anywhere you go.
And America took the opposite approach. You can buy a
gun in the gas station, but you like, but if
you want it to be a little bit more quiet,
you have to go through hell to make it quiet.
It's like it's like, uh, it's always struck me weird.
And I used to think of it like this, like
if they make if they make suppressors illegal or really

(02:42):
hard to get, Like if guns just happened to be
more quiet than they are, would they make a law
that says you have to make it loud? I mean, like,
the gun's the same. The suppressor doesn't change the performance
of the gun. It's just they want it. They want
to make it be that it's loud, or not make
it be that it's loud. They want to preserve the

(03:04):
fact that it's so loud it can cause damage.

Speaker 2 (03:10):
Right, Hey blame Jason Bourne. I mean really like that's
that's the perception of what those things do to a gun,
is that you can just go around and wax people
and nobody hears you.

Speaker 1 (03:24):
To help us understand, as we have our resident audiologist
Grace stirred Evan, who's been on the show a bunch
of times, from Auto Pro Auto Pro Autopro to joining
us from Mississippi. Grace, is she allowed to say hi
right now? Filler? She's not hooked up?

Speaker 3 (03:38):
Oh, she's she's hooked up.

Speaker 1 (03:39):
Say hi, Grace.

Speaker 4 (03:40):
I can say Hi, Hi, thank you. It's an honor
to be a resident audiologist.

Speaker 5 (03:44):
And I don't care if you say audo pro or
auto pro or stirred event or stirred event or.

Speaker 4 (03:50):
However you want to say it, got it. I'll be
a resident audiologist anytime, calling it all the.

Speaker 1 (03:54):
Way from Mississippi. We're also joined by a couple fellas
from Silence or Central, Brandon Maddocks and Lucas van Lockin Lacking, Lacking,
Ben Lacking, Okay lacking, Steve Oh, the ft up ol
Shitters Calendar is out. It's our third in the Fucked
Up Old Series, one being deer Stands. I can't remember

(04:21):
what year that was. Twenty twenty one, was deer Stands,
twenty twenty two, was Fucked Up Old Taxi Dremy twenty
twenty four as old Shitters and this is a beautiful
collection of old shitters. Nothing gross, no fecal matter, no
toilet paper, just crazy, classic inventive old shitters out in

(04:45):
the woods. Next year we're going to do fish cleaning
stations or fishermen haven't decided.

Speaker 2 (04:54):
I think it's got to be cleaning stations.

Speaker 1 (04:56):
Well, if it is, there needs to be a scratch
and sniff component, then you can scratch it and smell
the fish cleaning station, which is gonna be like a
hard technical thing to figure out. It's available.

Speaker 2 (05:09):
Now, why didn't we do that for the old shitters?

Speaker 1 (05:14):
Because they smell great, Because it's not gross, it's not
people sent us gross photos. We didn't use gross photos.
Some photos are so gross I didn't even get to
see them. Seth filtered them out. These are great. There's
one that's a we talked about it. There's one. It's
a it's a western red seedar that's been howled out
like the e walks or using it as a shitter.

(05:36):
Beautiful like Arctic shitters. Huh, I mean like gorgeous, telling.

Speaker 6 (05:48):
You the best of the best.

Speaker 1 (05:51):
I can't decide. Last night, I was so fired up
about this article that's on the metater dot com that
I was gonna read the whole thing, but that would
take so long.

Speaker 6 (06:05):
Yeah, speaking of governor's tags, these are like backdoor governor's tags. Okay,
is that the one you're talking about.

Speaker 7 (06:10):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (06:11):
Yeah, So here's the headline. Cala Hans quoted heavily in
it case against Idaho man exposes black market for big
game tags? Did it? Always? Cals is fair to say
you want to take a stab at this? Should I
tee it up?

Speaker 3 (06:30):
No? Go for it.

Speaker 1 (06:33):
In Idaho. No, you go explain what a black Explain
how they work, what they call them, and what it
is in Idaho.

Speaker 3 (06:40):
So I'm gonna say some redundant things here because it's
just hard not not to. But it's the I'm already
starting LAP land Owner Appreciation Program. LAP LAP is what
it is. But I always say, like LAP program, which,
how many programs do you need?

Speaker 1 (06:57):
When I was in the trades, we would get a
per diem and all the guys would say that you
get twenty five dollars per diem per day, not knowing
that per diem is Latin for per day. And I
would point this out.

Speaker 3 (07:10):
They're like, no, it means money. It needs lunch money
per day. So uh yeah. A lot of states have
some form of this, but basically it is an incentive.
It's a tool that the state agency has that incentivizes

(07:34):
land owners to either allow access or just use best
practices like wildlife friendly fencing, habitat, you know, keeping good habitat,
fringe areas, stuff like that. For for game species, like
it's a recognition of the fact that a lot of

(07:56):
wild game species that belong to all of us use
private land heavily, and landowners with there's some different levels
in here, but let's say six hundred and forty acres
in Idaho can apply for their own draw system only

(08:20):
consisting of other landowners with that amount of acreage or more.
For big game tags in the state of Idaho, those
tags are transferable. The original intent here would be like
if you have a big chunk of ground and you
have hired hired hands on that ground, ranch managers, et cetera.

(08:46):
You can transfer that tag. It's a voucher. Then you
take that voucher as the person who got the transfer
tag to Idaho Fishing Game. You pay Idaho Fishing Game
that the normal the counterfee for either a resident or
a non resident or that dear elk whatever, and then
you have a valid.

Speaker 1 (09:06):
Tag and then the issue it in your name.

Speaker 3 (09:08):
Yep, then it's in your name. And in Idaho's case,
this tag is not good just for the private property.
It's good for the unit. So they're unit wide tags.
Now this system gets corrupt and it I don't know

(09:29):
this for a fact, but I've been aware of these
dealings for so long.

Speaker 1 (09:33):
You've mentioned this to me in the past. Oh yeah,
before this case came out where it's like, I mean,
this is this is like smoking gun shit right here.

Speaker 3 (09:41):
This is smoking gun stuff because it's a very high
profile case. It's extremely well documented. The officer in this
case took things very slowly and got everything you could
possibly think of to you know, cross or Teas and

(10:01):
daughter Eyse here. So, but the issue is it's illegal
to either market the sale of a landowner tag or
sell a landowner tag right there. They're not to be
sold in Idaho. In Idaho, No, the these sales have

(10:22):
been going on for a long time, and the way
folks get around them is by saying, oh, I didn't
buy the tag, I was given the tag. I paid
for trespass across the property or through the property, or
I stayed on the property, or you know, there's some
sort of an exchange that would be legal or unregulated

(10:49):
to cover up the fact that they purchased a landowner tag,
which is illegal this particular case, they have this fella.

Speaker 1 (11:01):
Carl Stuter, Carl stud forty three. Who this guy's out
of control. I want this guys out of control.

Speaker 3 (11:10):
I want nothing more than to let things settle down.
Let this guy get out of the high positions that
he's in because he's on several boards, high profile electric boards,
and and have just a real good on the record
sit down with him because he is kind of you know,

(11:34):
hometown dude went to Lineman school. Agg family went to
Lineman school, you know, not like an Ivy League school.
And the guy's making crazy big bucks sitting on these
major electric boards CFO title or CEO titles and stuff
like that. And he got just way in to paying

(12:00):
his way through everything here.

Speaker 1 (12:02):
So here's something. The wardens they did a bunch of
electronic you know, confiscations on X accounts. Everything he do
something from his personal eye call out. He has a
folder tags bought for twenty twenty three Ryan Smith ELK
Muzzy fifty four fifteen K cash, Williams Elk Archery fifty

(12:25):
four forty K cash, Ryan Smith fifty two a ELK
rifle and Deer Muzzy ten K check Camus Creek Tags
number one cash muzzy deer forty five fifteen K rifle,
deer forty five fifteen K rifle, ELK forty five to
ten K rifle anelope. One thousand, five hundred Camus Creek

(12:46):
Tags number two Rifle, forty five archery, elk, five K rifle,
forty eight rifle ELK five K rifle, fifty two rifle antelope,
one thousand, five hundred rifle, fifty two rifle, deer, ten
K Camas Creek Tags number three rifle, forty five deer,
fifteen K, rifle, forty five elk, ten k. He got

(13:08):
a little bit over his limit that year, was shooting
elk and then having his kids run down and get
tags the next day.

Speaker 3 (13:20):
Yeah, so he's in illegal possession of wildlife he harvested.
Like Montana, for instance, you could legally get more deer
tags in the state of Montana if he took advantage
of all the opportunities that are out there, then the
state actually allows an individual to harvest. So there's actually
a cap in Montana of maximum allowable deer you can take,

(13:43):
even though you can get legal tags that you pay
it for for more. In Idaho, as the same thing.
This guy shot I think three elk bull elk le legally,
and then.

Speaker 6 (14:02):
It says the third one exceeded as beat.

Speaker 3 (14:04):
Okay, the third one yeah, so yeah, I mean he
was just doing some flat out poaching in there too.
You can kind of read into this and just just
this guy got onto a tear of throwing consequences out
the window or just not karing.

Speaker 1 (14:24):
Some of the text exchanges. I found a fifty four
muzzle loader tag open September twenty fifth bull elk. I'll
take it, can you get it? Fifteen k? Yes, sir done,
I'll take it for sure. Perfect will that be for you?

Speaker 3 (14:39):
So that's the other interesting thing here. There's like an
intent to sell again, so he's setting himself up to
be the middleman to then sell these tags at a
higher price again. And there's some marketing going on here too,

(15:00):
So it's something that's been known. It's hard to really
for you know, these game wards are very widely distributed
across the state. It's hard for them to take up
all of their time to document a case like this
and avoid those traps that are like, oh well, I
didn't buy the tag, I bought the guys time or

(15:23):
the access fee or whatever to dance around the law,
and then if you want to go down like the
conspiracy route, which is always fun, and I'm not saying
that's the case here, but you're dealing with oftentimes very
politically connected people that are in the egg industry in Idaho,

(15:46):
which is a very very strong lobby. There's sometimes big
money change in hands amongst other big money folks in
the state or out of the state. And there's a
question mark that lingers like, just why exactly if everybody
knows about this, has IDFG not been more on top

(16:09):
of it that we're just hearing about this case right
now because it is very well known, not just in Idaho,
but just in the circles in which people buy and
sell tags.

Speaker 1 (16:24):
Jordan Siller's article goes on about a month after stud
shot his second elk, he went hunting with his son,
who shot an elk but couldn't recover it. Studter's son
went home while Studter continued tracking the animal. At eight
twenty five pm in October thirty, twenty twenty three, another
of Stuter's son's texted his dad to ask whether he'd
found the wounded elk. Studter said he couldn't find the

(16:46):
original elk, but he quote shot a monster at one
thousand and five yards. I'm terrible placed to get him out,
but got him. His son asked whether he means a
monster elk or deer and studor responds monster elk. His
son texted back one thousand plus yards too, what like
to call American sniper And that was the third elk

(17:09):
to put him over his.

Speaker 3 (17:11):
Yep, put him into illegal possession of game.

Speaker 1 (17:15):
Then he's in a bunch of trouble too for driving
around with a half dead antelope in the back of
this truck.

Speaker 3 (17:21):
Yeah, that which is just like not condonable, explainable in
any any fashion. But he shot an antelope. And you know,
the zone that he's in is a real interesting one
because a rifle tag in there is extremely hard to get.
He's in that the Stanley Basin extremely hard to get.

(17:43):
And the landowners up there, there's several that are just
like not they're like hunting their preserves, they're not they're
not hunting friendly landowners. So getting a land owner tag
up there would be real tough.

Speaker 1 (17:58):
So he incriminated him off in a text message too. Yeah,
big guys showed up seven hundred and sixty yards and
wiped him out. But he passed out and woke up
in the back of the Tacoma. He's a little bit
old for Tacoma. Usually that's young whipper snappers. No, he's
probably sitting on the edge forty.

Speaker 3 (18:17):
Five Yeah, real man of the people, you know sitting
on the edge. Yeah. So yeah, Like I said, Mat,
I think he would be a phenomenal like psychological case
study for poaching and stuff once things cool down and
he can speak for you.

Speaker 1 (18:34):
If convicted of all seventeen misdemeanors and all three felonies,
faces a potential fine of hundreds of thousands of dollars
in over twenty years in prison. That will not happen.

Speaker 3 (18:45):
Oh absolutely not.

Speaker 7 (18:46):
No.

Speaker 3 (18:47):
I mean he can stroke a check, but I think
that's never gonna happen. The thing that would make that
would sting, right is they do right. This is a
he could have stopped a long time ago and still
gotten slapped with a hunting suspension, and so he is
looking at a lifetime hunting bam, which you know, folks

(19:07):
in that tax bracket they just go to New Zealander
places where you don't need a hunting license or places
that don't have that aren't part of the interstate compact.

Speaker 6 (19:18):
But you would think that I would hope that it
would sting if he couldn't hunt in the United States
of America.

Speaker 1 (19:23):
Any real bumber, dude.

Speaker 3 (19:25):
You always asked the questions, Yeah, oh, he's an enthusiast, right,
it's just like, but.

Speaker 6 (19:30):
What he just like, I don't know how much the
guy does, But does he just create instead of fish
Shack South, he just creates his hunting camp South Africa
and just does six months a year over there. And
it's like.

Speaker 3 (19:42):
Whatever, Sure listen, and that's that's just right.

Speaker 1 (19:46):
Yeah, yeah, sure, But there's no way. I mean this
this stings. Yeah, I mean this is like embarrassing.

Speaker 3 (19:54):
Oh, it's definitely embarrassing. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (19:57):
On a recent episode, I was talking about how some
names you can just people are loaded, Like when your
name's like Von Thurston, like like certain last names attract
wealth in disguis.

Speaker 8 (20:12):
I wish that was the case.

Speaker 1 (20:15):
If it was Von and in a space Von Walking,
I'd be like, that's a rich guy.

Speaker 8 (20:21):
Yeah, I'd go over all right.

Speaker 1 (20:22):
This dude wrote in my name is Mark rich and
I'm broke. So I said you. What if your theory worked,
why would I not be loaded?

Speaker 3 (20:35):
Uh?

Speaker 1 (20:36):
One more quick hit we've been having. I've been having
this debate with myself about whether uh like I had
heard I don't know what it was long ago, I
can't remember I heard. I had heard that the insurance
companies car insurance companies advocate to reduce deer populations because
they get sick of pan out all them, thanks Durkin.

(21:04):
Then I said, but then I read somewhere that that's
not actually true, and pack Dirkins said, where you read that,
it's not true as you read it in my article
at the meeater dot com. I'm like, oh, I knew
I saw that somewhere. And he said, that's like an
old wives tale that insurance companies push game agencies to
lower dear numbers. And then half a Finger wrote in,
and we just did that. We talked about this. Half

(21:25):
a Finger wrote in to say, I've had insurance companies
tell me that that's bs because they just pass it
along to the consumer and they just factored all in
and they're not going to spend money on things that
may or may not be effective, right, It's just part
of buying insurance. Well, this fella named Jacob updegraph. I
don't feel like that he tracks well rich. I don't

(21:47):
think that attracts wealth up the graph. It needs to
have more words to it, like you need if you
want to be rich, you got to have a last
name that's got individual words strung together, just a bunch
of syllables, Like if it was Grace vond Sturtivant, we'd
be like that lady's loading.

Speaker 4 (22:05):
Just got to add the bomb and.

Speaker 1 (22:07):
Then the money. We'll call uh, he says below us.
This is so funny. Okay, he sends us in below
is a link to Kentucky Farm Bureau Insurance Priorities go.
So here's the web page. I'm on it.

Speaker 6 (22:26):
Okay, Oh you can read it.

Speaker 1 (22:28):
Well, I'm on it. I'm like it's like, no, yeah,
I'm looking at Kentucky Farm Bureau. Big on commitment. Do
they spell commitment right? Yeah, big on commitment. And then
what it says in black and white or whatever the
hell you call it on your computer screen. It says,
reduce the wildlife population, just like, no details, just reduce

(22:51):
the wildlife population. End of sentence.

Speaker 6 (22:54):
Oh no, no, no it's not You're still on the email.
This is what it says no under wildlife management on
their State Priorities page, which is the state Priority issues
for the Kentucky Farm Bureau for twenty twenty four. Under
wildlife management, it states seek effective wildlife management that will
reduce the wildlife population in an effort to alleviate continued

(23:16):
crop in, livestock losses, automobile accidents, human injuries, and loss
of life.

Speaker 3 (23:23):
So last session less legislative session in Kentucky, there was
a bill that came through that would make it law
that the board, the fishing game board in Kentucky would
be under the jurisdiction of the Agriculture Committee. And yeah,

(23:47):
and this line right here was like a huge, huge
talking point. So Kentucky BHA and the Kentucky chapter of
Safari Club International actually got together formed a basically like
a lobbying group and just hammered the legislature over this
the whole time to.

Speaker 1 (24:08):
Using that statement as evidence of objective.

Speaker 3 (24:11):
Yes, to say, hey, if the egg Committee is going
to run fishing game, we're gonna probably have some conflict
in the future. Yeah, and the build in pass it
was a big, big win.

Speaker 2 (24:25):
Hmm.

Speaker 1 (24:26):
Yeah, thanks coming down day, Cal. And here's an interesting
one out of New York New York's meat transportation laws.
I live in western New York near the Pennsylvania border.
Myself and many others hunt both New York and PA.
New York recently changed their laws to which now you

(24:47):
are only allowed to transport d boned meat into the state,
but a cleaned listen to this detail, A cleaned skull
cap is allowed. It used to be you couldn't try
transport the spinal column in brain matter. He says. I
understand sort of because because of chronic wasting disease. I

(25:10):
get that New York is being proactive in the spread
into the state. But is there any quote science and
he quoted science his quote, But is there any quote
science that quartered deer with femur's shoulders, et cetera are
spreading CWD? He's opened to the person that wrote in

(25:32):
is open to the fact that he might be wrong.
He says, maybe there is, And I'm just a dumbass.
I'll tell you that, No, there's no. You can't link
the out It's so hard to pin the outbreaks to
specific occurrences. There's no documented case where they're like, oh,
this CWD outbreak was linked to Bob who had a
deer femur. It doesn't it doesn't work that way. You

(25:53):
can't trace it like that, you just have They kind
of go on on theory and guesswork. He says, but
you can bring a cleaned skull cap And he goes
on to say, like the thing the brain is touching
is a hacksaw and a creek gonna kill those prion proteins. No,

(26:17):
and what a pain in the ass to d bone
a deer in the field and bring it home. I mean,
it's not a huge pain in the ass, but I
also prefer to keep the bone in on the front
legs for roasts, and I use the rear leg bones
for stock. And the more I think about it, it
is a pain in the ass to totally d bone
on my tailgate in the dark. He goes on. I

(26:37):
also recently got into the domestic beetles for skull cleaning.
Just yesterday I called deec officer to ask some legalities
of me cleaning skulls that were shot in PA. He said,
the only way to legally do it is to bring
the beetles to Pennsylvania. Then he has a taxidermy product

(26:58):
which is legal to try transport across state lines. He
goes on to say, but what if my pa buck
has su CWD. I do all the ridiculous steps of
bringing my beetle enclosure to PA, clean the skull, et cetera,
et cetera. Did I totally eliminate the prians? No, you didn't.
I feel like a cleaned skull cap sitting on someone's

(27:20):
work bench has a much more significant risk of spread
than a dog scratching it and burying it somewhere than
my extremely. He sums himself up. New York sucks. Sometimes
he has some things he likes. He does appreciate that

(27:44):
they allowed legal shooting thirty minutes before after sunrise sunset,
which used to be well, I didn't know this, New
York used to be sunset sunrise. Holy cow.

Speaker 6 (27:55):
Do you feel like he broke that law not knowing?

Speaker 1 (27:58):
I don't think I knew that. And I'll tell you
what that was a case of Michigan. You would even
go out on opening day because thirty minutes into the
season you get a sink and feeling, wow, I had
no idea.

Speaker 3 (28:14):
That's funny.

Speaker 1 (28:16):
You had to wait till actual sunrise. That's the best
thirty minutes of the best. Well, when you take the
morning of the night, that's the best sixty minutes.

Speaker 2 (28:25):
That's how you feel hunting ducks, Yeah, same feeling.

Speaker 3 (28:30):
Yeah, go hunting on the reservation. That's their their.

Speaker 1 (28:35):
Laws to he. He appreciates it did that. He appreciates
they lowered the age to start big game hunting because
he has three kids and likes to spend time with
the mount hunting. He likes the mandatory hunter orange. Now
in fire season, he find firearm season, he's shocked that
it wasn't He's shocked that that wasn't written in the law.

(29:01):
And he likes the process of doing electronic licensing and
not needing to wear a backtack. He's what he's doing.
He's he's painting himself as the person that recognizes the good.
But he thinks that this CWD thing is a little
over the top. Dealing with CW here's my here's my

(29:22):
official on this. Dealing with CWD is a little bit
like it's a little bit like the early days of
the pandemic, where by and large you have a lot
of people who are alarmed and they're they don't know
all the answers, and they're trying to do the best
job they can do of adapting to incoming material and right,

(29:50):
and then down the road you're going to look and
be like, man, what did I really need to leave
my boxes out in my yard for ten days before
I carried him in and a bunch of other junk.
And then we're gonna look back and be like, what
the about? How stupid? So much of the stuff we
did during the pandemic was but at the time buying large.
There's some well intentioned people just just trying to figure

(30:10):
it out, and yeah, mistakes get made.

Speaker 3 (30:13):
I lose a little patience with the hunters, saying like, well,
it's too much of a pain in the ass. You
what ninety nine percent of people on this planet think
is too much of a pain in the ass getting
up at three point thirty four in the morning, getting
a bunch of crap together, going out in the woods,
sitting there till light finally pops up, freezing your butt off,

(30:34):
God forbid you get something. Then the real pain in
the ass starts, you know, I mean, come on.

Speaker 1 (30:38):
Oh, like when you factor all that out and then
there's this other little additive thing.

Speaker 3 (30:42):
Yeah you could like now you can just hop online
and have your groceries delivered to your front door.

Speaker 1 (30:47):
Yeah right. Comparatively with my little analogy about the pandemic,
I'll also point out there were people that obviously got
high on power. They got high on power, but there
were a lot of people that were just trying to
find a way to be helpful and solve the problem,
and they didn't get everything right. And you know, down

(31:12):
the road, we'll look back and be like, Ah, that
probably didn't really have any real impact on CWD spread,
but that sure did. Right, It'll be like that, yep.

Speaker 3 (31:25):
I mean when we do like that Frank Church trip,
like we boil skulls because of the law. I like,
traveling across state lines, We'll bring in another little burner
and a pot and boil skulls. They're on the air strip,
you know. I mean, I do that, But then I

(31:47):
literally take the lymph nodes in a little baggy mm
hmm and fly those out, oh to submit them, drive
them to the place, drop them in the thing. You know.
It's like there's a lot of things. When we had
that panel and we were talking to all the CWD folks,
I asked that question and they kind of laughed. At
me and we're like, well, of course that's not going

(32:09):
to spread them, you know. I was like, okay, well,
all the stuff I read makes it seem like we're
just spraying preons all over the place. Yeah, right, And
they're like, well, how could you get that? And it's like, well,
probably because I'm not an infectious disease expert, right, and yeah.
Kind of came to the conclusion that they need to
simplify their messaging in a lot of places.

Speaker 1 (32:34):
Okay, you ready to dig in?

Speaker 4 (32:36):
You ready, Grace, Oh, I'm ready.

Speaker 1 (32:40):
Okay, give it. Give us your spiel on how you
how when you shoot guns, your your your what. I
don't know where to start. You can start with why
when when someone touches one off next to your head
and the duck blind? Why do you hear for a
couple of days?

Speaker 5 (32:56):
Okay, I can start there when you told me just
to jump in, I'm going where because they're there is
so much to talk about. But that's a good starting point.
So what is happening when you blast yourself or when
you find yourself in the wrong place at the split
second of the wrong time and then your ears are screaming? Well,
when the sound as a in a nutshell. As the
sound's traveling through your ear canal, hits your ear drum

(33:19):
in this case, really hard vibrates the ossicles that then
move the fluid in the cochlea, which has those really
fine outer hair cell structures that are stimulated and generate
an action potential to be sent to your brain, where
it is then processed and recognized as sound, so we
actually hear with our brains. What we're trying to protect

(33:42):
from noise primarily are those really fine outer hair cells
which transduce the sound to the brain. Otherwise, once those
outer hair cells are damaged, then you've got regions of
the brain that are not being stimulated and you start
to have that phantom ringing sound, the tenetus or tonitis
that never goes away. That's because typically it's for a

(34:04):
number of reasons, but as it relates to noise exposure,
it's typically caused by those damaged hair cells that are
no longer sending the signal to that representative area of
the brain. So immediately when that blast happens, those hair
cells are physically bent.

Speaker 4 (34:21):
Sometimes they can even.

Speaker 5 (34:22):
Be ejected from the membrane in which they sit. So
depending on how loud that blast is and when those
hair cells are bent over, there's a metabolic process.

Speaker 4 (34:33):
Where they're trying to recover.

Speaker 5 (34:35):
Same way when you fatigue your muscles and you recover,
you know you're not going to run a marathon two
days in a row. I mean, when you're blasting these
things over and over, you're weakening them every time.

Speaker 4 (34:44):
So that damage is cumulative over a lifetime.

Speaker 5 (34:48):
And so when those are lying down and the brain
is missing that signal because during that time that they're
trying to recover, they're not transducing sound. That's when your
brain makes you hear instead of the sounds around you.
So does that is that coherent?

Speaker 9 (35:07):
Yeah?

Speaker 1 (35:07):
And I have tonight as Yeah, and you I had
this problem. When someone explains a health problem to me
that they're having, I start feeling their health problem. Like
if say, yeah, I have, you know, like a lump
on my testicle, I'd be like, oh my god, I
have a serious groin ache. All of a sudden, as
you're talking, I'm getting more tonightis noue. Oh my god,

(35:31):
I can hear it too, and.

Speaker 5 (35:34):
It's Tenadus is an area that is fascinating because it's
hard to pinpoint. There's no cure, but there are management strategies.
And at first, when you first hear these strategies, it's
gonna sound a little bit like mumbo jumbo, yeah, yeah, whatever.
But honestly, because our cortisol levels, our stress levels, salt,

(35:55):
caffeine can all affect the chemical gating s stum that's
working hard to suppress that ringing.

Speaker 4 (36:03):
And when your frontal lobe is focused on.

Speaker 5 (36:05):
Something else, that's why I tell people, as simple as
it is, try not to focus on the ringing or else.

Speaker 4 (36:10):
It will sound louder. When you can distract your frontal.

Speaker 5 (36:13):
Lobe and focus on something else with your brain, then
you can put it into the background.

Speaker 1 (36:19):
I might have accidentally hit on a thing that you
might recommend, and I'll explain. In starting my kids shooting,
my young kids shooting, I have a nine year old,
eleven year old, and fourteen year old, and starting them
shooting big game rifles. I started them out shooting like

(36:40):
like they have sig crosses in a six or five
creed More And I start them out shooting a suppressor
and hearing protection because they can like they conflate the
kick with the sound. It's all they're not distinct things.

(37:03):
This is true of kids, and it's probably true of
a lot of other people. It's like, there's an experience
of shooting and it has something to do with recoil.
It has something to do with noise, and it gets
bundled into your head just as like a sudden, very
uncomfortable experience.

Speaker 5 (37:22):
Right, And so I wanted to red will reduce the
felt recoil.

Speaker 1 (37:27):
Yes, So I put a suppressor on, I put hearing
protection on them. They lay down and shoot, and when
they shoot, they laugh the same way like they you
laugh getting off. They laugh because they were so like
you know, then they shoot.

Speaker 5 (37:46):
You're like, ah, I don't know, it's like that, right, Yeah,
but well you've actually hit on what I mean, spoiler alert.
My do you remember when I first came to see
you guys, and I talked about how, you know, my
job is an audiologist and someone who values the hunting
tradition is to equip you with the most realistic tools

(38:06):
possible to make this safer activity for you. But that
I cannot guarantee that by wearing hearing protection you're never
going to get some level of hearing loss from shooting guns.
Because we can only reduce the sound so much with
ear plugs. Do you guys remember me going through that Boleshpiel.
So I would apply that same conversation two suppressors as

(38:27):
we get into sound levels there, but the two in
combination can take you to a safe level. So whereas
when we're talking about hearing protection that's on your head
and in your ear, you know, ideally I talk about
how when you can to double up to put something
a muff on top of a plug to increase the
level of attenuation, and that to get more than that,

(38:47):
we've got to put you into a full helmet because
the bones of your body, even your teeth, are transducing
sound to those inner ear delicate structures that I was
talking about. But when you pair a suppressor with wealth
hearing protection, we can get you into a safe level
without having.

Speaker 4 (39:03):
To double up.

Speaker 6 (39:05):
God, that's kind of interested to hear.

Speaker 5 (39:07):
What the Silencer Central guys have to say about that theory.
It goes against some of the stuff I'm reading on
their website and all other websites for suppressors. But looking
at the data and all of the variables, which I'm
happy I would love to get into the nitty gritty
of that.

Speaker 4 (39:24):
That's what I'm seeing.

Speaker 1 (39:26):
That you're recommending that ear recommending both. Yes, well that's
what I that's what I'm saying. I accidentally hit on.

Speaker 5 (39:34):
Yeah, that is what you can do it.

Speaker 1 (39:35):
I'm both dead like to deaden my kids to the
to the experience, right, which is very well.

Speaker 5 (39:41):
And remember, let me umbrella this whole conversation with the
fact that we cannot rely on our perception of how
loud something is to objectively determine whether it's too loud.
Just because your ears don't ring, just because it doesn't
bother you, does not mean that that sound pressure was
not objectively damaging the physical strung pictures of your ear
and your hearing ability.

Speaker 1 (40:04):
Got it, Brandon, you want to jump in here?

Speaker 10 (40:09):
Yeah, boys should put us on the spot, right.

Speaker 1 (40:12):
No, I think we're on the same page. Yes, Brandon,
you want to get your Do you want to quiet
stuff down? Yeah?

Speaker 9 (40:19):
No?

Speaker 1 (40:19):
Absolutely?

Speaker 5 (40:19):
Yeah, no, Yes, I am pro suppressor. I am pro
silencer central. I was impressed by some of the studies
that you yourself have done to try to test the
different levels and to be able to put out good information.
I have some questions about some of those measurements, but
not in a way that's trying to be critical, just
in a way that's digging in to get to the

(40:40):
bottom of it.

Speaker 1 (40:41):
Yeah.

Speaker 10 (40:41):
Absolutely. So, you know, the threshold that we look at,
it's like one hundred and forty decibels, and what we're
told is we want our products to test below one
hundred and forty right out one hundred and forty or
less than. But of course it's hard to tell what
the environment is. You know, if you're indoors, obviously it's louder.
You know, we could show it our measures are, but
someone could have different atmospheric pressures, you could have shorter barrels,

(41:04):
you could have hotter loads. So do we disagree with
the concept of wearing ear protection with silencers, No, not
at all.

Speaker 1 (41:11):
When you talk about the when you talk about the
situation being different, I mean, I'm just like inviting listeners
to picture this. If you're shooting in a ten mile
an hour cross wind, it's less loud, right. If you're shooting,
you know, not that I would have any experience with this.
If you're shooting out of your truck, if you're over
in the driver's seat, shooting out the passenger window, it's loud.

Speaker 10 (41:32):
Oh yeah, totally, totally.

Speaker 6 (41:33):
Or if just that wind is blowing from your muzzle
to you yep.

Speaker 2 (41:36):
Man, I think like a big moment for us Steve
and I. I shot him out and go it with Steve.
And that gun was a muzzle break. It wasn't suppressed
this couple of years ago, and we were under a
tree right there, were still ready And I have never
felt like just because the environment, that tree right over
top of us, and that's right next to the bark,
it smoked us.

Speaker 1 (41:57):
Man, it styled my hair like.

Speaker 2 (41:59):
It changed everything about the way that I've hunted since.
Right in suppressors and when you think of it, hearing
pro like that was a bad environment for sound.

Speaker 10 (42:08):
Yeah, and in South Dakota could be a split leading
because prairie there, when you shoot, it's not as loud,
whereas if you're an environment where you can echo, like
you're saying, it's always gonna be louder.

Speaker 1 (42:19):
Can you explain the CA You explain the Hearing Protection Act, sure,
like where it sits and where it came from.

Speaker 10 (42:27):
And yeah, sure, so Hearing Protection Act basically the premise
there is that it would deregulate suppressor silencers completely and
make them a regular firearm. So you would go and
buy a silencer and at a regular you know, gun store,
and they would treat it just like a regular long
gun or handgun. You would just do a background check

(42:48):
and you'd leave with it. So there would be no
or tax stamp, no process. It's kind of you know,
a background check and you would leave. So that was
that was the premise of it was to deregulate suppressors.

Speaker 1 (42:59):
Because currently there regulated like can you I guess within
this explanation, can you explain what is the difference between
who regulates guns, like who regulates long rifles and who
regulates the suppressors that go on long rifles.

Speaker 10 (43:13):
Sure, yep, so both underneath atf so they have sort
of the domain over that. Some states will have different
state laws, but there's not many states that have low
specific to siglencers. Most states honestly don't even define them
as a firearm. But at the National Farms Branch NFA
branch is what regulates the actual suppressors. It's the same

(43:33):
process you go through and you buy a machine gun.
So it's created in nineteen thirty four and it came
out with a two undrell or tax then because it
was equivalent to one hundred percent tax on a machine gun.
So the goal was to regulate machine guns. Put one
hundred percent tax on a machine gun. So a machine
gun back in thirty four was two hundred bucks, so
it's basically two hundred bucks to get the machine gun.
What's interesting is the government, our government wanted to put

(43:58):
handguns into the NFA process with the machine guns, and
instead they traded out silencers. And I think the reason
why they did this, Yeah, and it was right after prohibition,
so I think people are like, all right, you just
gave us our alcohol back, and now you want to
take our handguns. We're not into this, huh. And there
was really no one at the table to say, hey,
suppressors aren't evil, they're not going to be used inappropriately.

(44:19):
It was just sort of a change of okay, let's
switch out handguns and let's put suppressors in there.

Speaker 6 (44:24):
But they were around back then.

Speaker 10 (44:26):
Yes, yes, you could buy them before or without the
you know, the regulatory process. I mean you know, you
see the maximum advertisements and the magazines whe you could
buy it and get it in the mail, and you
still see them floating around occasionally. But yeah, before nineteen
thirty four, they were somewhat unregulated. Now they're the same
as a firearm, so you have to follow all the
same rules you do with the firearm, but then you
also have to go through the NFA process, which is

(44:47):
a federal process.

Speaker 1 (44:48):
Got it, and the Hearing Protection Act is not never
got passed, correct.

Speaker 10 (44:53):
I think a lot of people thought that it had
a potential possibility when Trump first got elected, so it's
sort of stealed the mark a little bit. We have
two lobbyists, federal lobbyists in DC, and their feedback to
me is that it would take six years of a
Republican president, Republican Senate, and a Republican House to approve
the Hairy Protection Act because they would have to educate
that many people to get on board with it. There's

(45:14):
just such a negative connotation from the word suppressor for
non farms people when they hear it, they just think,
you know, public safety issue, the farious activity. It just
came yeah, yes, exactly totally. Hollywood. Hollywood has not helped.

Speaker 1 (45:26):
Yeah, for sure, has there been have you seen any?
Are you aware of any? Has they would looked at
like crime? Do you know? I mean, is there evidence
of that that there's a disproportionate number of suppressors turning
up in criminal activity.

Speaker 10 (45:46):
You know, good questions. So right before Trump got in, uh,
there was a member at the ATF pretty high up
that sort of sent a letter out that said, we'd
be willing to work with you the Trump administration once
he was elected to deregulate them, and that's what kind
of fueled the whole Hearing Protection Act. But ATF admitted
at that point, you know, twenty seventeen ish that they're
not a public safety issue. If you ever see a

(46:08):
silence are used in a crime, if you read the
footnote or you read all the details, it's typically unlawfully obtained.
They made it themselves, got it. I can only think
of one or two examples in the twenty years I've
been doing this where there was actually a criminal activity
that was happened with a suppressor that you know, the
person got prosecuted. And so there's three and a half
four million suppressors in America that are lawfully registered and are.

Speaker 1 (46:30):
There really now?

Speaker 10 (46:30):
Yeah?

Speaker 1 (46:32):
And how many states are you allowed to hunt with them?

Speaker 10 (46:34):
So suppressors themselves are legal for ownership in forty two states.
You can hunt with them in forty one states. So
not many people talk about hunting in Connecticut, so that's
probably not a big miss.

Speaker 1 (46:43):
So that's one of them.

Speaker 10 (46:44):
That's the only state you can't hunt on them with them.

Speaker 1 (46:47):
Oh you mean where you can have it but not
hunt with it. Correct, there's only one state you can
have it but not hunt with it.

Speaker 10 (46:52):
Correct.

Speaker 1 (46:52):
But forty one states you can hunt with it. Yeah, Oh,
I didn't know. Is that widespread? Oh yeah, numbers really growing.

Speaker 6 (46:57):
Yes, leaf that you can't Connecticut, No, but that you can't.

Speaker 1 (47:00):
Own eight states?

Speaker 10 (47:02):
Yeah, you're right, So California, Illinois, Delaware, Rhode Island, New York,
New Jersey, Massachusetts.

Speaker 1 (47:08):
All those conservative bastions.

Speaker 10 (47:10):
Yeah, and then he said Hawaii.

Speaker 3 (47:12):
God, do you think Delaware, Rhode Island, and mass would
be big proponents of suppressors.

Speaker 1 (47:19):
Since that's the background of the American firearms industry.

Speaker 3 (47:21):
Well, there's that, but just like the urban deer situation,
the awareness of limes disease, like they're doing pretty heavy
white tail suppression in those states, and and just that
a density of humans.

Speaker 1 (47:34):
Yeah, no, that's a good point.

Speaker 3 (47:36):
It's like a good neighbor thing.

Speaker 1 (47:37):
Yeah, yeah, you know, we should there's so many things
that are piled up here that we need to talk about.
Let's explain one thing. You know, I'm gonna fill this
one to our resident gun nut gear head, Garrett. Sonic
crack muzzle blast. You want to run with that one, That's.

Speaker 6 (48:02):
A good one to cover because it's the.

Speaker 2 (48:05):
Right Yeah, well, I mean, and I think I think
actually Brandon would be the best one to run with it.
But my best example of the two, of the difference
of the two is shooting a three hundred blackout right,
so they make like sub and supersonic rounds that that gun,
that cartridge was like created around being able to shoot

(48:26):
sub sonic ammunition. So two hundred and twenty grains is
just coming right out under right underneath that that speedest sound,
and so you don't get that sonic crack. So in theory,
you have the same gun, same powder charge. If if
you have a like a right now, I run a
say three hundred blackout for Kyo hunting, I think we've

(48:46):
actually hunk outs with that gun running supers suppressed. You
still it still sounds like supress, but it's still quiet,
but you still get that kind of like crack at
the end. It almost sounds like when you unplug like
an air hose from like pressure, like a tank, like
air tank. Right, get that.

Speaker 5 (49:03):
I'm happy to jump in on that.

Speaker 6 (49:05):
Crack.

Speaker 1 (49:06):
Oh, there's two Okay, Grace, you're gonna get to go.
But I'm just trying to Here's what I'm trying to
set up. I wasn't too clear. There's there's two noises happening.
Let's stay out of subsonic. Okay, all right, back up,
Slow down, general, honey, like your your grandpa's deer rifle.

(49:27):
There's two noises. There's the powder exploding, and then there's
it being faster than the speed of sound and breaking
the sound barrier. M hm, Grace, you have something to
say on.

Speaker 5 (49:40):
This, absolutely, and so that's important what you're actually seeing.
And I hate that this isn't totally video. But there's
the spectrograph of it. You have when when when when
a when ammunition breaks the sound barrier, which is heavily
dependent upon temperature. So when it's faster than eleven hundred

(50:01):
feet per second at sixty eight degrees fahrenheit, you're.

Speaker 4 (50:04):
Going to get an ND shaped sound.

Speaker 5 (50:07):
Wave on a spectrograph just a few milliseconds before the
blast from the gun happens, and that what we call
an in wave or that sonic crack can reach up
to one hundred and fifty to one hundred and seventy
decibels and it cannot be suppressed by a suppressor.

Speaker 1 (50:25):
That's what I'm trying to tea up is the whole
myth of the Jason Board is part of the thing
with like people looking at like, oh, suppressors would just
mean you could walk around a house and like shoot
everybody in the house and there's no noise for neighbors, cops,
other people in the house or whatever. This sort of
myth is you're ruling out that there's additional noise occurring

(50:47):
when a firearm is shot.

Speaker 2 (50:49):
Yeah, that's what I was trying to get at by
saying subs and soupers, because then when you shoot a
sub sonic, that is truly where you actually do get
the like with Jason Bourne.

Speaker 1 (51:01):
Like it's so quiet, we'll shoot I'll take my wife
and kids and we'll shoot a twenty two one of
those taxol like Semiauto twenty twos. With a suppressor and subsonics,
the only noise you hear at the gun is you
hear at the slide, and I'm not joking. You hear

(51:21):
the beer can crinkle, yep. When you shoot, the main
noise is the aluminum crinkling yep. That's quiet, yep. But normally,
like if I'm shooting my three hundred wind bag suppressed
and someone's off one hundred yards away, they're very aware.
It's a much quieter experience for me. They're very aware
that the gun went off because there's that traveling noise.

Speaker 2 (51:44):
You know, you're not getting rid of the sonic boom.

Speaker 1 (51:46):
Yeah.

Speaker 6 (51:47):
My brother described it in Wisconsin when my daughter shot
at a deer last year. He said that he felt
like he was just hunting nearby, you know, sitting on
a stand, and he felt like he could actually hear
the bullet traveling more than he ever had, Like, was
he heard this that as it moved through the forest

(52:08):
or whatever where normally it was probably muffled by the blast.
But he's like he was just like it was crazy
because I never had heard that sound. It's obviously always
been there, but because there was that loud blast was muffled,
he could actually hear this like different sound.

Speaker 1 (52:24):
I'm just stumbling across a sentence in this piece about
the Hearing Protection Act. No one should have to sacrifice
their hearing because they choose to exercise their Second Amendment rights.
And it's about the Hearing Protection Act. Kriin, did we
do our thing, because here's the story. I think I
told this story before we started recording today. Yanni and

(52:45):
I were talking about this. Maybe how many years ago
we were in Kentucky. M hm, I don't know, eight, eight, nine, ten,
whatever the hell was. Eight years ago, Yannie and I
were in Kentucky. We're hunting with our buddy Kevin Murphy,
and we went on a swamp rabbit hunt with some
game wardens and suppressors were just just becoming part of

(53:07):
the conversation around hunting. I didn't own one yet. I
don't think I o't. I didn't own one yet, and
it was just becoming a thing people talked about. This
game warden had two things that Yani and I have
mentioned many times. He said of his job, one of
these game wards, there's multiple game wardens there. One of
these game wardens said, I don't need to go out
in the field anymore. I have Facebook and the other

(53:30):
and the story and the other game wardens said on
the conversation with suppressors, he said like he expressed being
uneasy with suppressors because he said, that's a big part
of my toolkit. And he went on to explain that's
why I never get any bow hunting done, as I'll
be in my stand and it'll be right around dark

(53:53):
and off on the next place I'll hear and I'll
think to myself, something's not right, and then I'm down
out of my tree heading that way. That's the only
observation I ever heard from a warden, and it was
it was speculative. And I was asking Crinn in this
conversation and I'm staunchly like, I'm staunchly pro suppressor. But

(54:16):
I asked Kran, like, we should ask some game wardens
what their take on it is.

Speaker 7 (54:21):
Yeah, So everyone I asked directly had to get approval,
so they anticipated in the anonymous policy.

Speaker 1 (54:27):
Okay, we justle the whole thing out there.

Speaker 7 (54:29):
No, no, no, And so everyone most everyone came back to
me with a no. So then I asked colleagues, and
Brent Reeve has a friend Joe Alexander, thank you so much.
He reached out on my behalf to dozens of his
game warden buddies, and I think it was kind of
a collective effort of wardens from across different states, and

(54:53):
he put together this bargraph.

Speaker 1 (54:55):
Can I read it?

Speaker 7 (54:55):
So that's what you have, and then you have a
you know, he did like a kind of opinion poll
as well.

Speaker 6 (55:02):
But they know and they agreed that this there what
they said would be part of this.

Speaker 1 (55:08):
Yeah, okay, yeah. So here's the game Wharton poll that
Krinn assembled for us on a scale. Here's the how
it expressed them. I think I wrote this sentence, and
now that I'm looking at it, I made it maybe
a little bit difficult.

Speaker 6 (55:20):
I'm glad you see that too, because I've read it
like ten times. I'm like, I don't know what he means.
It's like, this is it.

Speaker 1 (55:24):
This feels like a text message between this is this
is sort of the essence of me and Krin's text messages.
I think it was, like I said, on a scale
from one to ten, it's it's very hyperbolic. I say,
on a scale from one to ten, with one being
the worst thing for wildlife ever and ten being no

(55:46):
difference to your ability to do your job? What would
your number be? That got's a terrible sentence. We're asking
them to say, in terms of from a game warton's perspective,
suppressors being doesn't matter. Suppress that being it makes it
very difficult to do my job. No, it's like I
put it the wrong way too. One as it's bad.

(56:09):
Ten as it doesn't matter from the perspective of how
a game warden is able to conduct his business. Okay,
we go on. Thanks to Brent Reeves's friend, Lieutenant Joe Alexander,
who helped Krin get this together, all warden's Krinn personally
reached out to you said they weren't allowed to answer
this anonymous poll. They wound up getting twenty nine. We

(56:31):
wound up getting twenty nine responses from game wardens. Okay.
Sixteen of those twenty nine were from Oklahoma, six were
from Texas, three were from New Mexico, two from Colorado,
two from Kansas. One suppressors are the worst thing ever

(56:56):
for wildlife. Zero respondents gave a one two meaning next
to one one being the worst thing ever for wildlife.
Of the twenty nine, two did a two, No one

(57:19):
one did a two. No warden says it's the worst
thing ever for wildlife. One zero Warden says, the worst
thing of God. This is a horrible I should man,
I should not get into the polling business. Now I'll
get through it. Zero says it's the worst thing ever
for wildlife. One guy gave it a two, Two guys

(57:40):
gave it to three. Zero guys gave it a four.
Now we start to see it climb. But here's the thing.
Ten out of twenty nine. Ten out of twenty nine
Wardens said it has no impact on their suppressors, have
no impact on their ability to do their job. Couple

(58:06):
anonymous comments.

Speaker 6 (58:07):
They're the ones using Facebook readily because they.

Speaker 1 (58:09):
Don't need because they got Facebook. They just look for
something and that were like, that's not right. Why is
this guy got a big buck in July? It looks
like why is this guy posted six different bucks in
the middle of the night and his T shirt or
a beard exe to him?

Speaker 2 (58:23):
It looks like twenty six out of the twenty nine
gave it a five or higher.

Speaker 1 (58:28):
There you go, that's a good way of putting it.
You should go on the polling Yeah, some anonymous comments
game ward number one. I would have to say nine
hardly affects the way I do my job. Just like
a knife, suppressors are a tool. In the hands of
a chef, a knife helps a chef create a fine meal.

(58:50):
In the hands of an unsavory criminal, a knife could
be a dangerous weapon used for illegal things. The same
goes for suppressors. In the hands of a hunter, presser
could be used to help fill the freezer, or used
by a poetry to quietly conceal their crime. Criminals who
wish to break the law are going to do so
and use whatever tool will help them achieve their goal,

(59:10):
legal or not. On a personal note, I think suppressors
are a great way to introduce youngsters and new hunters
to rifle hunting who are afraid of the percussion of
rifles or who wish to keep their hearing or it's
it's a or so does that? Thank you Krin for

(59:31):
putting that together.

Speaker 6 (59:34):
Who's Joe, He's the guy that did the work.

Speaker 1 (59:37):
Oh, bread of the work. Oh I'm sorry, thanks Joe,
Thanks for doing that. Krinn that put to ease my
that put that to anyonet have any comments on that?

Speaker 3 (59:50):
You know we all know Eric Crawford, former l e
O Wildlife l EO over there in Idaho. I was
just hanging out with him earlier in the week, and
I had i'd either told him that I finally have
a suppressor showing up at the house or his comment,
but he was like, oh, you guys and your suppressors.

(01:00:12):
I was like, well, go on, tell me, tell me more,
and he didn't really just didn't have a good, good comment,
good good answer. But I kind of read between the
lines and it's just like I feel like from his
point of view, he is like, I want all the
little tiny advantages I can get as a law enforcement

(01:00:35):
officer out there because of the job's just so hard
to pin.

Speaker 8 (01:00:40):
You know.

Speaker 3 (01:00:40):
You hear a shot ring out over this giant forest
and you're like, Okay, I can go look for vehicles
on the side of the road, but maybe that person
got dropped off. I could go charging into the woods
by myself a somebody who's obviously armed, you know. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:00:56):
A game warden said there are certain situations that it
would make it more difficult to hear a shot, but
you would need to be out of your vehicle listening
for a shot. Another game warden, I'm a firm believer
in using suppressors for hearing protection, but there's no denying
that they make our job harder at times. Another game warden,
in my opinion, the use of suppressors has not changed

(01:01:17):
anything about how I do my job. The sound of
a gunshot was never a reason I used to investigate somebody. Anyways,
A truck parked at a gate with hunting paraphernalia in
it is a far better indicator that somebody is actually
hunting than a gunshot, goes on.

Speaker 7 (01:01:38):
I have a question because some of the game wardens
responded saying or looking at suppressors in their relationship to
fair Chase and if hunters are if we hunters are
getting critters used to you know, the sound versus not

(01:01:59):
and oft impacts fair Chase or not. And there's also
a lot of pointing to thermal vision as being worse than.

Speaker 1 (01:02:08):
One guy goes on to say thermal with a suppressor
makes it very difficult to catch bad guys. Another guy
he doesn't says, I don't catch him in the act anyways,
My investigations are usually after the fact. Gunshots aren't the
primary sign I'm looking for or listening when I'm patrolling.

Speaker 6 (01:02:31):
Lots of comments do you feel like gett infringes on
fair Chase?

Speaker 1 (01:02:39):
Again, like like to do that, I'd I'd have to
take this approach. If guns just happen to not be loud,
let's just say we'll go back in history and somehow
through like like the earth was designed differently and and
physics were different and guns weren't loud. Would there ever
be a conversation in which someone was trying to mandate

(01:03:01):
or regulate that we make them louder. It's just they
happen to be loud. Do you know what I'm saying.
There's no one ever pointed out like a need to
make guns be more loud. Be like you can use
a twenty two, but only if you put a sound
accentuator on it to make it be super loud. To

(01:03:23):
make it fair, Chase, you've never been part of the conversation.

Speaker 6 (01:03:27):
The argument is is that the critters that we've been
now hunting for whatever one hundred years modern firearms are
accustomed to hearing a gunshot and being scared and fleeing ki.

Speaker 1 (01:03:40):
Those band bohun or you know what, when you shoot
your boat, you gotta then hit a button that makes
a loud noise.

Speaker 6 (01:03:47):
Okay, that's not fair, Chase, that's not You're not that's
not oranges to oranges thirty yards away with a bow
unless you're using subsonic ammunition and and you know doing
that thing.

Speaker 3 (01:04:03):
I think the animal's range of hearing is so acute
that you know that that noise is going to get
picked up no matter what.

Speaker 1 (01:04:11):
And you've already shot.

Speaker 6 (01:04:13):
That's the thing.

Speaker 2 (01:04:13):
It's like, it's it's a hard fare chase argument when
you've already shot. Like it didn't help you. Thermal is
a good argument for it, right, Like that helped me
find the animal and then shoot.

Speaker 3 (01:04:24):
It, help me find it at night off a road
or during the day.

Speaker 1 (01:04:31):
Yeah, but he hasn't even normally you'd also have to
do this when a deer gets hit, the noise hasn't
gotten there anyways. I just think it is way ahead
of the noise all the times.

Speaker 6 (01:04:42):
It's I've.

Speaker 3 (01:04:45):
And have that deer or elk hall ass right at me,
right because they heard the impact of the bullet behind
him and then turn.

Speaker 6 (01:04:54):
I'm explaining Devil's advocate this because I'm certainly you know,
I'm big pro shooting the suppressed a year round. I
don't think that it I don't really think that it's
going to make a difference every critter I've shot, like
you're saying, they still hear something and the herd's still
scattering even when I've used, you know, a suppressed rifle.

(01:05:17):
I would say, if you were going to take that argument,
the what you would want to actually limit is long distance,
because that's where I've seen critters just be like no idea, Yeah,
like a rock literally explodes at their feet at the
first shot and they're like, oh, that's weird.

Speaker 1 (01:05:33):
They're seeing it for yeah, and they.

Speaker 6 (01:05:35):
Start feeding again. So if you're going to take that argument,
I would say, instead of taking away suppressors, take away
the ability to shoot past four hundred yards because at
that point, I think, yeah, because I with like a
three forty weather be I had a guy shooting at
an elk one time at roughly six six and a
half and the conditions all together were enough that there

(01:05:56):
was a hurt of bulls, and this hurt of bulls
were not afraid of these the sound that they were
hearing and the bullets coming in until one got hit
and then when he started running then they kind of scattered.
But I mean that right there, I think that that's
a stronger argument for what they're for what people that
are trying to use that you suppressors to say it's

(01:06:16):
gonna do. It's not doing. It's it's the it could
be shooting long range.

Speaker 1 (01:06:21):
No, I appreciate the Devil's advocacy. He needs to be
advocated for.

Speaker 3 (01:06:27):
No, it's it's an argument worth having.

Speaker 1 (01:06:29):
Yeah, And I was just watching a documentary. Karin's gonna
ask me later if we can cut this out, and I'm
gonna say no. I was just watching a documentary of
the guy that in the military that had to defend
Khalid shake Muhammad, the mastermind of the nine to eleven
terror tacks in the Military Commission, and how he got
into the mental state to approach that job. So Devil's Advocate,

(01:06:53):
thank you, yiannih.

Speaker 3 (01:06:57):
I mean our conversation take care.

Speaker 1 (01:07:01):
In a way, our conversation is antiquated. It's antiquated because
we're having a conversation from ten years ago, as evidenced
by the fact that forty one states have said okay,
we give forty one states have said okay. We've heard
from all the interested parties, and in the end we
decided this is okay. But it remains a thing of
like you know, I just got this thing the other

(01:07:24):
day from the University of Texas. They found that better
looking people live longer and that has to do with jobs, right,
the way people are treated by healthcare professionals. You can't
even begin to untangle it. But it's just like people

(01:07:44):
with symmetrical faces live long longer than people with asymmetrical faces.
We also know that people with money live longer and
are healthier than people without money. And we've kind of
made suppressors with the current the way we've handled suppressors
in the past years. We're like, yeah, I understand, if
you got enough money and you got your whole situation
put together, you're allowed to have a quiet or firearm.

(01:08:07):
But if you're a little bit broke, it's just going
to keep being loud for you. Because the way we've
decided to regulate how these work, people with a couple
hundred bucks, sure, people without a couple hundred bucks tough yet, right,
is kind of how they've approached it. I mean, they
haven't put it that way, but that's effectively what they've done, right.

Speaker 10 (01:08:24):
Yeah, Yeah, it's just evolved that way since the thirties.

Speaker 1 (01:08:28):
And where does the situation sit nowt Like can you
lay out a little bit like what it used to
be the first time I got one, it sat at
the gun shop. The first time I got one, it
sat at bob Wards for fourteen months. Yeah, before I
was able to come get it. Right, where are we
Why was that? And where are we at now?

Speaker 10 (01:08:44):
Yeah? Good question. So yeah, when I first started, you know,
I've been doing it twenty years. When I first started,
it was really quick because no one was buying them.

Speaker 1 (01:08:53):
Oh, just is that right?

Speaker 10 (01:08:54):
Yeah, it was like two weeks. I mean it's people
like I always say when I first started with two weeks.

Speaker 1 (01:08:58):
You're like, how's that on twenty years ago? Two weeks?

Speaker 10 (01:09:00):
Yeah, just because no one was buying them. There was
just there was no volume. It was easy for them
to approve them because there was really no volume. So
really the reason why they got behind was just sheer volume.
And really the NFA branch is like other government agencies
where they don't get the funding that they need to
be able to process them. They weren't getting the head count,
they were getting the technology. They just they probably weren't
getting the best employees.

Speaker 1 (01:09:20):
Oh there's no deliberate delay.

Speaker 10 (01:09:22):
No, No, it's a one hundred percent volume.

Speaker 1 (01:09:24):
It was a fourteen month wait for someone to pull
that file.

Speaker 10 (01:09:28):
Well I should, So they did studies and they were
touching it like a hundred times. I mean, just like
one hundred percent inefficient, just you know, send it to Bob,
send it to Jane, then Frank. It just kind of
went around this sort of you know path. But you know,
I've seen it go as high as I saw get
up was about you know, that year and a half
two years after Obama changed some rules. He tried to

(01:09:49):
take it where it was harder to get it to
a trust. And then now fortunately, uh, we're seeing what
they call and what we're seeing is real time approvals.
So we're actually submitting people's paperwork digitally through the e
forms process. At time's the central and right now it's
about a three to four day waiting period some of them.
Some of them were getting I proved within hours.

Speaker 1 (01:10:12):
No, yeah, the individual I'm serious.

Speaker 10 (01:10:14):
I yeah, because I say that. You know, if God
himself had come down and said, Brandon, what would you
like approval times to be, I'd be like, I would
be happy with thirty days, sir, But to have like
real time? Who would have ever thought of that?

Speaker 1 (01:10:27):
Right, Yeah, because you can go get the damn gun
real time.

Speaker 10 (01:10:29):
Yes, Yes, So it's uh, it's really changed everything. I mean,
it's it's doubled our demand.

Speaker 1 (01:10:35):
Uh.

Speaker 10 (01:10:35):
I mean people like there was like this sort of
psychological I gotta pay for it. I'm not going to
see it for a year, and then it got to
me ten months, and then it was nine months, and
it's sort of you know, oscillated. But now that in
some cases it's literally real time. So seventy one percent
of every one of them we submit is instant approval.
What Yeah, because what they do is they just do
your background check and if you pass it, you're automatically approved.

Speaker 1 (01:10:57):
So I just have I haven't done I haven't done
one in probably be ten eleven months or something like that. Yeah,
haven't picked one up in probably a year.

Speaker 10 (01:11:05):
Yeah, so it I mean it's pretty amazing. So the
twenty nine percent that aren't getting approved real time, they've
been arrested before, so they have to look and figure
out what you were arrested for. Got it And there's
a fellon into your state that's got the same name,
so they have to make sure you're not them. So
that's where it creates a little bit longer wait, and
the FBI has to manually review it and that can take,
you know, a couple months.

Speaker 6 (01:11:24):
So Joe Smith has a little harder time than.

Speaker 10 (01:11:27):
You're exactly right, that's one hundred percent correct. I used
to could tell peop why their name probably how long
they would have to wait if they would tell me
whether they've ever been arrested before?

Speaker 1 (01:11:34):
Oh yeah, yeah, like that dude that wrote in about
how he's not rich Mark Rich. Yeah, there's probably some
dude that did something bad name Mark Rich because true
is a common name.

Speaker 10 (01:11:43):
Yes, very much.

Speaker 1 (01:11:44):
So what is the process? Uh, you know there's like
a fingerprinting component. How's all that work?

Speaker 8 (01:11:51):
Yeah?

Speaker 10 (01:11:51):
Good question. So remember it all started in thirty four,
so it's a little antiquated. But the best way I
could think to explain a silence or purchase is it's
a title transfer. So it's almost buying a truck. So
the title to that silencer is in our name at
Silence or Central, And in simplest terms, we're asking the
ATF to transfer it from us to you, so for
them to approve that they want fingerprints, which we do know.

(01:12:13):
The insight is they don't use the fingerprint cards, but
we have to submit it to them anyway, So we
get those from you, we submit them digitally. They need
a picture of you, which most people take with their
phone and send it to us, so we upload that
to them and then we give the same sort of
demographics you would give when you purchase a firearm. They
just want to make sure you're not a fellon through
a background check, and then once they approve it, they'll

(01:12:33):
put a stamp on there. So they do charge that
two hundred dollars tax we talked about earlier, and once
that's approved, we can transfer it to you. So and
the good thing about silences c central is we could
do everything remotely and we can mail the signwncher to
your front door.

Speaker 1 (01:12:47):
Oh, it doesn't have to go through So.

Speaker 10 (01:12:50):
Fortunately, siglences are centralized locations in all forty two states
where silencers are legal. So we manage all the paperwork
on the front end, and so Fall South Dakota our
home base is, and then we manage it on the
back end for whichever state you live in. So if
you live in Montana, once it's approved, it's shipped from
Montana directly to your front door. Yeah, that's good.

Speaker 6 (01:13:11):
Where does the little interview that I do every time.
Oh sure, yeah, how does that come into play? Why
is that necessary?

Speaker 10 (01:13:17):
Good question? So essentially we're filling out the paperwork for
you asilence. Their central is based on the information you
give us. ATF wants you to verify that the information
we filled out for you is accurate.

Speaker 6 (01:13:26):
That's it, yep.

Speaker 10 (01:13:27):
So it's a good check step for us. I mean
we do find that people love that. I mean we
usually send you a review right after that because we
get you know, one hundred percent five stars like that
was a great That was a great process because essentially
we're just saying, hey, did we get your last name right?
Did we get your first name right? Are we correct?
And you said you're not a fella? You know, here's
the dress, here's the state you live in. Just a
quick check it gives ATF. So we had to work
with ATF because before you know, we're more remote. We

(01:13:49):
have stores in all states and we're doing this from
South Dakota, from our headquarters. So we kind of had
to work with them to say, hey, you know, they're
not going to walk into our store to acquire this.
What do you want us to do to fulfill the requirements,
so you feel like this is following federal statutes and
that's what they came back with. So it's worked out
really well. I mean it's a bottleneck for us, but
consumers really like it and it keeps us from having
any errors. So the good thing about our processes we

(01:14:11):
have almost zero errors because if you get an error
on the forums and you get denied, you got to
start back over. Not that the way it is as
long as it used to be, but it's kind of
our claim to fame. It's all digitized and through that process.

Speaker 6 (01:14:22):
It's yeah, and it's quick. I mean if you as
the consumer have your shit together, which means I think
I can't remember now what they call it, some kind
of identification number you need to have on his end
and then one other.

Speaker 10 (01:14:34):
Yeah. So basically the ATF, you're signing those documents digitally
saying that what we entered with you was correct.

Speaker 6 (01:14:41):
Yeah.

Speaker 10 (01:14:41):
So the ATF has you sign up for that on
their website. And how they determined you are who you
say you are is through like, uh, you know data,
that's your financial data. You know which address did you
live at, what was your car payment for the you
know first vehicle you bought, you know that kind of stuff.
That's your digital signature. So essentially they'll give you a
pen an a user name which you can't tell us,
so you'll enter it in on the computer system. That's
your digital signature. That's what sends it to atf They

(01:15:03):
immediately then send it to the FBI. FBI does a
background check and if it's approved, then we get an
approval right back. I mean we've seen people get ap
proven thirty minutes. It's kind of crazy.

Speaker 6 (01:15:12):
Yeah, if I come prepared, it takes like five minutes.
And if I'm not quite prepared, then they kind of
talk me through it like well go to here, Yeah,
go to here, find this, and then it takes maybe
ten or fifteen. Yeah, it's pretty pretty easy.

Speaker 10 (01:15:24):
Yeah, it's super turnkey.

Speaker 1 (01:15:27):
I want to talk about some of the other rules
you need to have these used tube. Do you still
need to have paperwork with you when you have your
suppressor with you, you know, the way you have it
on your phone.

Speaker 10 (01:15:38):
Yeah, phone's fine. So if you read the statute, it
just says that you present in a reasonable period of time.
So if what's interesting is that's actually a tax return,
that's when a dollar tax goes to the Treasury, So
the only people that can actually request it and actually
get it would be a person would like say, the irs,
or someone on the criminal side with ATF. So there's
really only two people that can ask for it. So
even a game board can't ask for it technically because

(01:15:59):
it's a tax document is protected by privacy.

Speaker 1 (01:16:02):
But you would recommend photo a photo of that tax form. Yes, yes, weird,
it's a tax form.

Speaker 10 (01:16:08):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:16:08):
Yeah, it's got a little stamp on it.

Speaker 10 (01:16:09):
You're right, exactly, yep, so yep. They just they say
able to present in a reasonable period of time. So yeah,
if you have it digitally on your phone, you're one
hundred percent fine, or you could call us and we
can email it to you.

Speaker 1 (01:16:18):
Now, okay, I'm out with my kids, yes, and they're
with me with me, yep, okay. And it's it's firearms
that like I own, you know, but it's the guns
I use for my kids. I have my suppressors on
the guns. I'm standing next to them. I'm cool.

Speaker 10 (01:16:34):
Yeah, one hundred percent. So ATF told me as long
as you can still see the person you're with, they
can be in possession of the silence or even if
their name isn't on the paperwork, because you haven't truly
lost possession if you can still see them.

Speaker 1 (01:16:44):
Okay, yeah, all right, So we go out and I
lend my buddy, or my buddy comes over my house
in the morning wants to borrow my rifle and I'm like, oh, yeah,
I take the suppressor. That ain't a good idea, right, so.

Speaker 10 (01:16:58):
You know, we give away free gun trust anyone that
buys a silence or from Silence or central. So if
you haven't a trust a stroke of a pen, you
can add them to your trust and then as long
as they're eighteen or older and also not a prohibited person,
they could take the suppressor right.

Speaker 1 (01:17:13):
There, but it's not there. It's not like becoming their
property still.

Speaker 10 (01:17:20):
So think of it as when we do it to
a trust, that title transfer goes from us. Silence are
central to that trust, and the trust technically owns it.
So when you add them to that trust, it almost
be like adding someone to your LLC. They're now kind
of a co owner of that trust, so yeah, they
can use it. What's interesting about adding someone to a
trust after you buy it, you don't have to submit
anything to the ATF. There's no background check, there's no

(01:17:41):
hey we got to send us to ATF. It's very
turn key. So typically at siunces are central, we usually recommend, Hey,
put one person on the trust yourself. We'll do all
the paperwork for you. Once it's approved, we can add
anyone you want, long as they're eighteen and they're not prohibited,
just with a stroke of the pen.

Speaker 1 (01:17:54):
But you can also get it where you can. Also,
I know I have a trust, but if you there's
kind of no reason to do it.

Speaker 10 (01:18:00):
Trust right, That's what I think, because the benefit of
the trust is you can share it with that scenario
you just said, but also you get to pick who
gets it when you pass away. So hopefully your kids say, hey,
i'd like to keep that, dad, So you put them
down as a beneficiary, and then once you pass away,
they keep it.

Speaker 1 (01:18:14):
I remember the first one I got years ago. I
remember needing to tell my wife. I'm like, this will
probably not You're probably never gonna remember this conversation. But
I gather if I was to all sudden croak, you're
supposed to like call the ATF or something to come
get the suppressor or some garbage like that. Well, so
if you own it, it is not gonna happen, right totally.

Speaker 3 (01:18:35):
It could be low on the priority list, right totally.

Speaker 10 (01:18:37):
So if you own it as an individual, they else,
They do have a form that your spouse can fill
out and it's free. I always say you get one
tax free transfer, but it's when do you die? Okay,
and then you can transfer it to someone else. So
it's this kind of the same paperwork we do to
transfer it to you, your spouse could do that paperwork
to someone else and as long as they're in the
same state and they don't have to pay the twohundred bucks.
Oh okay, yeah, but that's if it's as an individual.

Speaker 1 (01:18:59):
So the garver and doesn't need to come and like
seize it when they die. No, no, it's good. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:19:04):
Well can you explain when you say, with a stroke
of a pen, you can add somebody to your trust. Yeah,
So I go to Steve's house and he's like, here's
a gun. What's the supress around? And I'm like, oh,
I'm on your trust. What is like the actual process
to get added to Steve's trust?

Speaker 10 (01:19:19):
Yeah, So if you called silence essential, we would just
send you a form and it's pretty much plug and play.
It would just say what's the name of your trust,
which we would tell you. I'd want to know what
data was created, which is on the trust, and then
he would have to sign it since he's ahead of
the trust, so it'd make you a co trustee. So
essentially then you could use it.

Speaker 3 (01:19:35):
Probably three times in the last four months I've had
the conversation with somebody be like, hey, if you need
a suppressor, get one right now, because they're getting approved
super fast. But they're all individual trusts. Yeah yeah, right,
or or sorry, individual versus trust.

Speaker 10 (01:19:54):
Yeah. So typically individual is a little bit quicker because
then ATF doesn't have to read the trust. But we're
seeing the trust every day getting quicker. So the goal
is eventually it'll be closer. I think as ATF is
doing pretty much real time on individuals and their hopes
to get it out of the less than a month.
If you bought it through a trust.

Speaker 3 (01:20:10):
Okay, and that individual though, that one is like just you.
It's just you. It's in your possession, yep.

Speaker 10 (01:20:17):
Just in your name. But you can change that. So
if someone calls and says, hey, I bought it as
an individual, I want to put it in a trust,
so we could do it for you. It's the same paperwork,
but you don't lose possession of the item. So but
you do have to pay that tax stamp again, oh,
changing the title of ownership from yourself to the trust.
But some guys are doing that because they want to
get it quick. So I got a hunting trip coming up.
I want to get as quick as possible. And then

(01:20:38):
while I'm on the hunting trip, we could transfer it
into a trust and you know, I have to pay
two undred bucks. But you know, some people don't care.

Speaker 3 (01:20:43):
Oddly enough, I wish Chester was here right now because
he could tell you this is all I would say,
roughly a thousand times easier than registering a boat trailer
in Montana.

Speaker 1 (01:20:57):
It seems to me that without I guess like the
trends going in the right direction, without them just saying listen,
it's just it's just like a gun. You can go
buy it and walk out the door of it.

Speaker 10 (01:21:09):
Totally.

Speaker 1 (01:21:10):
They're alleviating a lot of the pain points. But what's
up with the what's up with the tax? And why
isn't there an equivalent when you buy a pistol or
a long rifle or a shotgun.

Speaker 10 (01:21:20):
Yeah, so you know that tax again was created for
the machine guns and then silence has kind of got
thrown into the process after the fact. You know, there
is that Pittman Robertson tax on handguns or ammo, but
we don't really see it because it's paid by the manufaction. Yeah,
it's baked in, so it's yeah, it's I think it's
some of them are ten, some of them are eleven.
But yeah, you know what's interesting about that two hundred

(01:21:43):
dollars tax is we're trying we've got a bill currently
in Congress and we're trying to get into the Senate.
But it would take that two hundred dollar tax and
put it into Pittman Robertson so it'd go to conservation.

Speaker 1 (01:21:52):
Cool.

Speaker 10 (01:21:52):
Yeah, and so the sort of the other behind the
scenes is we feel like as more states, so we
talked about states like potentially making them illegal in the future.
We feel like if because it was so simple math, right,
there'll be a million siguncers approved this year two hundred
dollars each. That's two hundred million. That's a lot of
money to go to conservation, and a lot of that
trickles down to the state level. So we feel like
if states like Oregon, Washington State are starting to get

(01:22:13):
some of that money, maybe they would be less likely
to make them illegal in the future. But the reverse
is true too, like Illinois, or we talked about, you know,
some of these other states that you know, Massachusetts, Delaware,
Rhode Island, some of these states where they're not currently illegal,
if they thought they could get more funding through Petman Robertson,
if they became legal and started transferring through their state,
then maybe they would be more open to getting them.

(01:22:34):
So it's kind of a win win. We do find
the Democrats and Republicans are interested in conservation, so it's
it's an interesting bill that we hope eventually we'll get through.

Speaker 7 (01:22:43):
You know.

Speaker 1 (01:22:43):
It's a kind of an odd little irony is that
some of these states that they haven't made it legal
are some of the states we would regard as the
biggest sort of like what you call a nanny state. Yeah, totally,
meaning when you buy like some fishing sinkers in California, right,
it comes with like the death message about you know,
all the bad things that come from fish and anchors,

(01:23:05):
and they take so many steps, you know, like the
states where you can't bump your own gas or whatever.
You know, when you fill out a lease to run
an apartment's just pages and pages and pages of all
the hazards and risks inherent in life. It would seem
that you would have some sympathy from those states that
are so protective of saving people from themselves, meaning like

(01:23:27):
can't use fireworks or whatever. Yea, you're like saving people
from themselves and constantly warning people of the dangers of
everyday activities. It surprises me that they wouldn't say, Okay,
whatever guns we do allow people to have, we should
allow them to tone the noise down totally.

Speaker 10 (01:23:46):
I like that.

Speaker 1 (01:23:47):
It's perfect because.

Speaker 5 (01:23:53):
It's a much bigger public health concern for noise exposure
than for safety when you look at the crime statistics.

Speaker 4 (01:23:59):
Just like you guys were talking about earlier.

Speaker 5 (01:24:01):
I mean, what we need to save people from is
the long term health impact of the hearing loss that
comes as a result from guns without suppressors.

Speaker 1 (01:24:11):
Yeah, or blowing your own kids ear drums out, which
I've done a couple of times.

Speaker 5 (01:24:17):
Yeah, Well, you know it's and I mean I don't
want to derail the conversation here, but I also want
to just point out a number of people that I
talked to in preparation for this told me that they
love suppressors, especially for their kids, because their kids aren't
as afraid of the recoil. But these people are seeing
some of the vernacular on the websites and in the
marketing that says that with a suppressor they're hearing safe

(01:24:40):
and you don't need hearing protection, when that's.

Speaker 4 (01:24:42):
Just not true.

Speaker 5 (01:24:43):
In fact, it's one hundred and forty dbpsbl that's considered
the limit for safe impulse sound for an adult, but
it's one twenty for a kid, and that's a very
different measure. And if you guys want to get into
the logarithmic scale and how every three dB increase is
a doubling of sound pressure at your ear drum, we

(01:25:04):
can get into that. But I just want to that
it's a huge safety issue when you're talking about sounds
that are that loud.

Speaker 4 (01:25:11):
So it's not either or in my opinion, it's both.

Speaker 1 (01:25:15):
And no, I got you. I got you, And and
I feel like I'm trying to think of how I
do it myself. I feel like I've not put any
hearing protection in shooting my rifle when you're shooting your suppressor, Garrett,
do you do any hearing protection.

Speaker 2 (01:25:34):
At the range? I?

Speaker 1 (01:25:34):
Do you do?

Speaker 6 (01:25:35):
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (01:25:36):
Because like if you're jamming fifty sixty rounds, it's still
gonna get to you. Like or if I'm competing with
a suppressor, I'll throw throw hearing pro in. It's usually
it's not over ears, right, It'll just be like which
is a lot more convenient. It'll either be just foamys
or like an in ear.

Speaker 5 (01:25:52):
Honey, I'm gonna challenge you a little bit because when
you say it doesn't get to you, what are you
facing that on?

Speaker 2 (01:26:02):
I said, it does get to me.

Speaker 6 (01:26:04):
Oh I thought you said, Yo, if I shoot.

Speaker 2 (01:26:06):
Like fifty or sixty rounds, it still does get to me.

Speaker 1 (01:26:09):
But you're saying that. Grace is saying a lot's happening
before it gets to you.

Speaker 2 (01:26:14):
Oh yeah, yeah, No, I'm tracking. But I think I
think like where it's been a huge game changer. And
Grace and I talked about this, like I think the
first time you came to Meteor, She's like, the reality
with hearing protection is people don't wear it right hunting honting, right,
So like we're going up the mountain. Oh there's an elk.
Hold On a second, I'm gonna throw in my hearing pro.

(01:26:36):
You've done it like twice in your life, don't well.

Speaker 5 (01:26:38):
And I think that the reason why people don't wear
it is what ODO pro has been on a crusade
to evangelize, which is that these don't have to be
phonies that are uncomfortable and fall out and block everything.
You know, we can preserve your localization ability and your
ability to carry on conversation and even to be able
to hear game at an advantage at a farther distance

(01:27:00):
of our electronic options that are on the market.

Speaker 4 (01:27:02):
So you know that's not a valid excuse anymore.

Speaker 5 (01:27:05):
But when I'm looking at the stats and the data
from the very best studies, some that are done by
medical personnel for the military, other studies that have been
done by silencer companies, and you're looking at all of
these numbers with the goal of getting things to an
average peak SPL of one hundred and forty so that
it can be labeled as hearing safe. What's not taken

(01:27:27):
into account is all of the variables, the fact that
the temperature is going to change the speed of sound,
the fact that the length of your barrel, what kind
of an action system, whether you've got direct impingement or
piston gas. You know, it's it's all affecting how loud
it is at your ear drum. Also, the first round
pop is noticeably louder.

Speaker 4 (01:27:50):
Brandon, do you want to talk about that a little
bit about how the.

Speaker 5 (01:27:53):
First time when you shoot a gun suppressed, it's going
to be significantly louder, you.

Speaker 10 (01:27:57):
Know, And just to clarify our testing experts here, but
you know, I think it's based on design. So years ago,
a lot of people would make like a monolithic silencer
where it was basically one baffle inside, and those did
have a louder pop because the air was colder and
you had to actually heat it up. And I used
to always kind of be against that because I'm like,
why would you want in a hunting scenario your first

(01:28:18):
shot to be the loudest. So that's why we we
actually switched to stack baffles. But I have found in
stack baffles typically that's no longer the case. You don't
always see the first round pop. You don't see the
first shot as loud, because again, it used to be
a big thing years ago. We would sort of promote
it as, hey, we don't have any first round pop.
Everybody else does. But now when you start testing, if
they have a lot of baffles and their stack baffles,

(01:28:39):
you don't see that as much. I don't, Lucas, do
you see many things that have first round pop like
that as much.

Speaker 8 (01:28:43):
I mean, I think all suppressors have some some first
round pop, but it just really depends on the design
to see how much do they have. You know, there's
you know, when that suppressor is cold, there's oxygen in there,
and then you fire that first round. That purnt unburnt
gunpowder is what's exploding and creating that that noise. Then
when it's really heated up, but you're firing multiple times.

Speaker 6 (01:29:04):
But explain it just a little bit more, because I
still think, like everybody's understanding, there's there's oxygen in the
in the suppressor at the end of the gun, but
now you've introduced unburned gunpowder, So really explain exactly what's
going on that's making it louder than the next shot.

Speaker 8 (01:29:21):
Yeah, so that that unburnt gunpowder as it exits the
end of the barrel, there enters that first chamber of
the firearm. Where there's the most volume of air and oxygen,
and so that's where where it ignites, and and you'll
you'll get that loud sound from.

Speaker 1 (01:29:36):
Why does that go away on the second shot?

Speaker 8 (01:29:38):
Because once that that's expelled, it almost creates a vacuum
within the suppressor as that bullet exits and and the
air flows through, and it expels all of that additional
oxygen and air, and it's also heated up at that
point in time. So if you do multiple shots in
a row, you won't necessarily see that. It'll get pretty consistent.
But if you then let the suppressor cool down, or

(01:29:59):
you leave your action open and let airflow through it,
you might see that again as you shoot again.

Speaker 1 (01:30:03):
Got it? I wanna, I want to do a thing here,
and I wanna I want to a little bit clarify
what we're hearing from Grace and and and be clear. Uh, Grace,
it's fair to say that from your perspective as a
as an audiologist and a hearing protection evangelists and someone

(01:30:26):
that like like you, like prescribe hearing aids and check
people's hearing and all that kind of stuff. Right, you're
saying that, Uh, you're saying you're all for suppressors, but
don't make the mistake of shooting without hearing. In addition,
use hearing protection.

Speaker 5 (01:30:44):
That's right, and I think a good way to illustrate
that is to talk about what we call the three
dB rule. When when you're talking about sound pressure, you're
talking about decibels, and it's not a linear scale, it's
not one to one, it's logarithmic, and the curve has
an exponential growth pattern for sound pressure. So that means

(01:31:05):
that when you're going from let's just look at decibels
that relate to suppressed sound levels. So when you look
at sound at suppressed sound level data from testing, you'll
see suppressed levels that range anywhere from one hundred and
I'm looking at some right in front of me where
the average is one hundred and forty. But the first

(01:31:27):
round pop was one forty five, and then you get
a one forty, a one thirty seven, a one thirty nine,
another one thirty seven. Basically, you've got like a five
decibel range of what you're getting on the individual pops. Okay,
but for every three decibel increase, every three decibel increase

(01:31:48):
roughly doubles the sound pressure level at your ear drop
and causes an exponential increase risk for hearing loss, which
is why when you're looking at the OSHA standards for
workplace environments, for example, the allowable time exposure for a
sound level is going to be correlated such that you know,

(01:32:09):
ninety decibels over an eight hour workday is permitted.

Speaker 4 (01:32:13):
But when you take that up to.

Speaker 5 (01:32:18):
Ninety three decibels, you're only going to be allowed four hours,
got it. So there's a trade off there, But that
means that when you go from one hundred and thirty
eight decibels to one hundred and forty one decibels on
a reading which can be again influenced by temperature atmosphere
where you are, those variables make a huge.

Speaker 4 (01:32:39):
Difference in the risk to your hearing.

Speaker 5 (01:32:41):
So when we're teetering right there on that line of
does this suppressed gunshot actually fall within allowable category?

Speaker 6 (01:32:50):
Does it?

Speaker 5 (01:32:51):
You know what's the standard deviation there? I'm going to
recommend adding earplugs every time, especially for kids.

Speaker 1 (01:33:00):
If you want to have a fun party or at
an event, have someone come out and stick that custom
earwhag Grace came to our office one day and everybody
got to get the she like comes with this big needle,
not a.

Speaker 5 (01:33:18):
Not a needle, not a needle, and.

Speaker 1 (01:33:21):
She injects this hot wax into your ear.

Speaker 4 (01:33:24):
It's not hot, she's just.

Speaker 1 (01:33:31):
Not a needle. She molds. I'm joking. She she molds.
She molds everyone's ears. So if you're having like a whatever,
you're having an event, a corporate event, I don't know,
she'll come out and mold everyone's ears and then give
get you custom plugs because I would complain to Grace.
I'll carry my ear plugs around for ten days, and

(01:33:52):
then when someone at the end of the hunt, when
someone finally gets to make the shot, I don't put
the sun's bitches in and so have a like good ear.

Speaker 4 (01:34:01):
You know you're you're getting better about that.

Speaker 1 (01:34:03):
A thousand times better. I'm gonna tell you a story.
I was with my kid and we were pig hunting
on my buddy's ranch, and we snuck up on some pigs.
His mom poundered hearing protection into him so much we
snuck up on some pigs. He informs me he does
not have his hearing protection. We snuck out back to

(01:34:23):
the truck, got the hearing protection, snuck back in, and
then shot the pig.

Speaker 6 (01:34:29):
Wow.

Speaker 1 (01:34:29):
And I was like, yeah, I was trying to fight
against him on this and he's like, Mom said, yeah,
so the next generation is going to have better hearing.
I'm headed toward hearing aids like the damage is done
on me.

Speaker 5 (01:34:42):
Well, but hopefully we're going to stabilize it and slow
down that progression as much as we can.

Speaker 1 (01:34:49):
Yeah. If I yelled to someone. I had this recently
when I was at our Fisheck, I'd yell to our
neighbor and the neighborhood say something and I would turn
to my kid and they go, he said, like, what
the is he talking about? Oh? He said to whatever.
I'm like, how can you hear that? Yeah?

Speaker 6 (01:35:05):
Great? If I If I uh, if it happens to
take me, say, five shots to kill my prong horn
on my upcoming hunt, and every single shot registers right
at one hundred and forty, you're way over, am I
getting that hearing damage?

Speaker 5 (01:35:22):
One hundred and forty is the recommendation for the limit
for a peak exposure over an eight hour period of time.
It's assuming you're going to shoot that gun one time.

Speaker 3 (01:35:31):
That's gonna be a long chase.

Speaker 6 (01:35:32):
So the answer is yes, it's five days.

Speaker 4 (01:35:36):
Which is.

Speaker 5 (01:35:39):
You start asking yourself the question of did you have
that crack from supersonic ammunition on top of that that
was not suppressed. That's another one hundred and fifty to
one hundred and seventy just before the actual blast of
the gun. So your ears having to take on that
assault as well. So why not us join forces. Let's

(01:36:01):
odo pro and silence are central. Put out some PSA
where you get a pack of earplugs with every suppressor
because the two are better together. That's what I in
reading a lot.

Speaker 4 (01:36:12):
Of Better Together.

Speaker 5 (01:36:15):
I think Jack Jack Johnson has a great song with
Better Together.

Speaker 3 (01:36:18):
It's always been oh you would, Oh you would Jack Johnson?

Speaker 6 (01:36:21):
Please, I just.

Speaker 5 (01:36:23):
Jack Johnson view. But honestly, it's like that's that's the
PSA right there. It's that when you combine some great
hearing protection that still allows you to maintain localization, conversation,
game awareness, and just the sounds you enjoy in nature,
and you pair that with a with a suppressors, that's
going to get you down close to one. Then now

(01:36:45):
we're talking. Now we're talking, let's put.

Speaker 3 (01:36:48):
That man actually speaking of great combinations, grace and great pairings.
We have a meat Eater silenced or central suppressor on
the table. It's gonna do the industry.

Speaker 5 (01:37:01):
Well, you know what. Meat eater dot com also carries
the oudopro impulse, which should.

Speaker 4 (01:37:07):
Just be.

Speaker 3 (01:37:10):
Concert.

Speaker 6 (01:37:14):
We'll make it a thing, Grace that we'll offer a
combo package at some point when we start slinging these things, Grace.

Speaker 1 (01:37:23):
Com I hear you. I'm using my words carefully. I
hear you. And you when you came and sat in
our studio, it like it. It changed my It was
it was the pep talk. I needed to start getting
serious about my ears. Awesome. A little late, a little late,

(01:37:44):
but for the next generation.

Speaker 5 (01:37:46):
But not too late because to your point from the
beginning of the episode, if you're listening to this right now,
you're using your ears.

Speaker 1 (01:37:52):
Yes, let's talk about the suppressors in front of us.

Speaker 2 (01:37:59):
Yeah, all right. So we have like kind of a
timeline of suppressors here that we worked silence at Central
on to back up. Brandon and the team came to
us a couple of years ago and they're like, man,
we should build like a suppressor together. See one of
those supressers that this is the final product there, Steve.
So they came to us and they're like, let's build

(01:38:20):
something together for for Hunters, and uh, frankly, I think
we all had like an internal dialogue and we didn't
really want to do it because a lot of times
that means that we just put our logo on something
and we're not really involved in the process. But Brandon, yeah,
do whatever you want, Brandon, the team link. I knew

(01:38:42):
that was gonna happen.

Speaker 6 (01:38:42):
That's why.

Speaker 2 (01:38:43):
Oh yeah, Uh Brandon and the team introduced us to
Lucas and uh that piece is gone, oh man and
uh and they were like, no, like really, let's build
this thing how you want to build us wrestler. So
Jannis cal and I had kind of the first introduction

(01:39:05):
call with Lucas and the engineers at Silence are Central
and provided a bunch of feedback on length weight suppressors.
We like supressers, we don't how important the sound level
is versus recoil. And from there, a lot of myself
and then Matt over here started working with Lucas and

(01:39:27):
the team to kind of build what we feel like
is not currently on the market, so what we wanted
to do, and I'm going to turn it over to
Lucas to really like talk through the engineering of this.
But from a goal perspective, we wanted something that was
light for hunting, that was long enough to get the

(01:39:48):
suppression that we wanted, but not so long that the
overall length of your rifle wasn't like carrying a crane
up the mountain.

Speaker 9 (01:39:54):
Right.

Speaker 2 (01:39:56):
So the other thing that we wanted, knowing that a
lot of us are hunting with bigger calibers, is a
decent level of recoil reduction that isn't seen on the
market right now in suppressors. But not only that, being
able to tune the break that you see on the
end of the suppressor to make the gases disperse the
way that we want them. So, like you've shot a

(01:40:17):
lot of muzzle breaks, right, we've kind of gotten away
from like radio breaks in general, because it just kind
of pushes air in all directions, which can push it
down into the dirt. You get dust kicking up can
also cause a little bit of muzzle flip up, Right.
That's why most muzzle breaks you see are directional. They
have ports out the side and large and some on
the top.

Speaker 1 (01:40:36):
Yeah, I want to explain that thing about about being
able to tune them, yeah, or go ahead and explain,
because you know, let's say you're aiming at a target
a couple hundred yards away at the range, and you shoot,
and every time in your gun settles it'll usually be
and this is a function of posture and other things,
it'll usually be. Then what lands You'll find that it's
always to the.

Speaker 6 (01:40:55):
Right, right, So you like a lefty shooter.

Speaker 1 (01:40:58):
Yeah, yeah, we were talking about that the other day. Yep. Uh,
it's gonna bounce in some some predictable fashion. In the
perfect world, it bounces and lands back and when you
when everything settles, you're right back on the target. Yep.
And you don't have to go look for what happened.
That's how people miss. Yeah, they don't. They're not tracking
what's going on. At the end of it. They shoot.

(01:41:19):
They never see what happened. All of a sudden, the
animals is gone. They don't know if it fell over,
if it ran off, because their scope settled elsewhere. And
it's possible I didn't. I don't even I didn't even
really know this till a couple of years ago, that
with a muzzle break and with with the suppressor, it's
possible to try to tune that out right.

Speaker 2 (01:41:36):
Yeah, So like if you screw a muzzle break on,
because that's like the most drastic if you look at
your break and on that like if it's directional, it
just has the side ports on it, that break is
like at a forty five degree angle. It's going to
be a pretty drastic like shift in that rifle. When
it reads jump, it's going to jump one way or
the other, depending on how you have that right. So

(01:41:57):
when you talk about tuning a break, like a lot
of them have like a locking caliber on there where
you can make it like perfectly flat. So the gas
is coming out at a ninety degree angle to the
barrels right, and that's gonna keep that gun kind of
just like directly coming back if depending on if you're
right or left handed, then you can and depending on
how you shoot. You have some guys that they'll they'll
put the rifle like the stock way out on their shoulder, right,

(01:42:21):
People like me come right below the right eye, and
so it's gonna jump differently depending on that. And then
that's where you'll just kind of tune that brake angle
a little bit to where when it jumps, it just
kind of jumps straight up and comes right.

Speaker 1 (01:42:32):
Back down, which is pretty satisfying.

Speaker 2 (01:42:34):
It's amazing. Yeah, what we wanted with this is to
create something similar with with this break to where you
could make it to where not all these ports are open,
and then you can adjust how that recoil is gonna
disperse or how those gases are going to disperse out
the end of the barrel, and how you feel that
recoil and how that thatkind jumps, which has never been

(01:42:57):
done right. You see a lot of users out there
that have a radial style break just like this one,
where it's it's poured it all the way around, but
they have no way of turning off part of those
some of those brakes or those ports are not And
that's Luca's I think the best thing to do is
have you explain kind of how you solved for that.

Speaker 6 (01:43:17):
Is everybody clear that we combined a break with a suppressor?
Is that clear? So we feel like that's clear?

Speaker 5 (01:43:24):
Honestly, That's what I was like hanging on. I'm going
is that is that what they're saying?

Speaker 4 (01:43:28):
It's both.

Speaker 8 (01:43:29):
Yeah, So the brake is on the end of the suppressor,
so it's it's acting as part of the suppressor, but
also the ability to adjust it as you're shooting. You know,
every time you put this, you know, put this silence
around a different firearm, it's going to be rotated differently
once you thread that all the way on the barrel.
And so that's why that's why we're looking at how
do you tune that and time that so that you
don't have that muzzle blast shooting down into the dirt

(01:43:52):
if you're laying prone, but instead have it shooting directly
out to the sides and directly vertical both for it's
obviously keep your gun from jumping, but just reduce that
muzzle rise as you're shooting and be able to stay
on target longer.

Speaker 2 (01:44:06):
Yeah, and get if you hand him the suppress or there, Steve,
I think you should talk through like how you solve
for that.

Speaker 8 (01:44:12):
Yeah, so you know, like a normal radio break on
a suppressor. We've got holes all the way throughout this
this end cap here, but there's a sleeve inside of
it that gives the shooter the option to adjust it
to their firearm, so it specifically tuned to their gun
no matter how they're shooting it. So this this sleeve
inside can be adjusted to only open the ports on

(01:44:35):
the side and the ports on the top, close the
ports on the bottom, depending how that's installed onto the gun.
So that gives you basically the best recoil reduction possible
with the silencer. You know, just out out testing, you know,
see almost a ten percent increase with opening those ports
up compared to just a silencer alone. Yep.

Speaker 6 (01:44:56):
Yeah, bought that same piece there. If you want, you
can bit right and then take the break out completely.

Speaker 1 (01:45:04):
Yep.

Speaker 8 (01:45:04):
So going back to to how do we get this
thing as quiet as possible to reduce as much noise
and hearing damage as possible. If you're not as concerned
with the recoil, you can flip this piece around and
put it in here and it will shut off all
of these ports. So that's gonna make it as quiet
quite as possible, because when those ports are open, they're
letting additional gas out that would have been trapped in
that silencer for longer.

Speaker 1 (01:45:25):
So less noise, more recoil. Correct yep, gotcha. Yeah.

Speaker 7 (01:45:30):
You know.

Speaker 1 (01:45:31):
The thing I think that should be pointed out on
suppressors too.

Speaker 7 (01:45:34):
Is.

Speaker 1 (01:45:35):
You can just because you're shooting a suppressor doesn't mean
you can't turn around and shoot unsuppressed, like whatever difference
you find in your rifle between your suppressor and not
as fixed like it's you're gonna be when you put
your supressor on, You're gonna be a little lower than
your normal point of impact, but it's gonna be predictable.
You could take that thing off shoot, put it on shoot,

(01:45:57):
take an off shoot, put it on shoot, take it
off off shoot, and you're gonna wind up with two
distinct groups. It's always the same, and you just have
it in your head about what the difference is if
you like, if whatever, if you always shoot suppress or
you're going somewhere you don't want to bring your suppressor
because of whatever reason, you would know that like, okay,
I'm gonna be a fixed MOA off and it's not random.

Speaker 2 (01:46:20):
Yep, yep, yeah, because you're just dealing basically like gravity.

Speaker 1 (01:46:24):
That's just right.

Speaker 2 (01:46:25):
And if you give like really nerd out where that
changes as angles because gravity has a different pull on it.

Speaker 1 (01:46:32):
It's a good point.

Speaker 2 (01:46:32):
So if you have a suppressor on the end of
your barrel and then you point up, that's gonna pull
different than if you're you know, parallel with the ground
and vice versa. It could be lighter, right if if
you don't have suppressor on there, that's a little different
nerd out.

Speaker 1 (01:46:47):
But no, like Garrett gave me the best nerd out
I'd ever heard of their day, gun nut nerd out, check
this out. Yeah, listen, your bullet comes out at spinning
clockwise from your perspective. Okay, if there's a cross wind,
your bullet splinting. So you're you're the shooter. I think

(01:47:07):
of this as yourself shooting. You're shooting your bullets flying
towards target. It's spinning clockwise. If there's a wind coming
from your right, that bullet is gonna I'm gonna say, climb.
It's gonna not drop as quickly because of it rotating
clockwise into a wind and it's basically climbing the wind.

(01:47:32):
Its rate of drop would be different if it had
a wind from the left, which is driving it down
down faster.

Speaker 7 (01:47:42):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:47:43):
And it's also dependent on like the twist rate of
your barrel. So if you have a one to eight twist,
that's gonna climb or drop faster than if you had
one ten or one twelve.

Speaker 1 (01:47:52):
This is all stuff I'm going to factor in when
i'm shooting bucks ate hundred yards too, right, Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:47:57):
Yeah, no, it's you can nerd out on that. I
think where we had a lot of fun with this
one man, and we got to test it with Giannis yesterday.
We did a little experiment. Man, it doesn't seem like
this little break on the end of this suppressor is
a huge factor. But like Lucas said, when you have

(01:48:18):
that break engaged, it's a ten percent more reduction in recoil,
which when you're shooting a three hundred wind mag like
you'll take everything you can get, right, but you lose like,
what was it like five or six decibels right of suppression. Right,
So if you're out with Rosie and you know your

(01:48:38):
guys are shooting the cross, you shut off these ports
all of a sudden, you get all the suppression that
you want out of it, right, and you're shooting a
lighter caliber and you don't have to worry about the
recoil as much.

Speaker 6 (01:48:52):
Yeah, open or closed. I was impressed. We shot three
hundred win mag yesterday, one hundred and eighty grain bullet
and uh. The main other suppressor that I used is
a nine inch Banish thirty that the Monal name and
uh so consumerably bigger than this one. And I would
say that this one, like, I don't I didn't shoot

(01:49:14):
it right next to each other, but it seemed as
though it was almost apples to apples and like it
really quieted down and the requil was like that gun
was fun and easy to shoot. I was doubled up
with hearing protections. Yeah, when I was trying to communicate

(01:49:35):
with Lucas, we had to make eye contact.

Speaker 1 (01:49:38):
Cal brought that up duck hunt with my kids, But
I put all the hearing protection on my kids, you know,
and there's nothing you can yell at them.

Speaker 8 (01:49:47):
Come back here?

Speaker 3 (01:49:49):
What are you doing?

Speaker 1 (01:49:51):
They just are going.

Speaker 3 (01:49:54):
Yeah, they're like they're like on a space walk essentially.

Speaker 6 (01:49:59):
I think a lot of Do we have an MSRP
yet for the one that we're making?

Speaker 1 (01:50:04):
Yeah? What is? What is? Tell people? What does this
suppressor cost?

Speaker 8 (01:50:08):
Yeah, so this one's going to be twelve ninety nine?

Speaker 6 (01:50:11):
Okay, okay, seems like a lot of people are gonna
say it seems like a lot of money for like
a metal tube. Why does the suppressor cost one thousand dollars?

Speaker 10 (01:50:21):
It's one hundred percent titanium. Titanium is hard to source
a machine. You saw him take it apart. People want
to take him apart and clean them. There's not many
of them out there you can take apart and clean.

Speaker 6 (01:50:30):
Okay.

Speaker 10 (01:50:31):
One thing we didn't talk about is we let people
pay why they wait. I know, we get quicker turnarounds,
but some guys are gonna take a few months to
get it if he's the guy that's been arrested or whatever.
We let you pay. Why you wait, so you don't
do it all at once, okay.

Speaker 6 (01:50:43):
But to answer the question, then it would be because
of the design. Yeah, it goes into it, yeah, absolutely,
and the materials.

Speaker 10 (01:50:50):
Yeah, there's a lot of small parts there.

Speaker 8 (01:50:52):
Yeah. And everything that we do is you know, precision machined,
So just a lot of time and quality that goes
into it to make make the product like it is.

Speaker 1 (01:51:01):
Which which adds to that, where do you guys do
all that work? All?

Speaker 3 (01:51:05):
We got two.

Speaker 8 (01:51:05):
Facilities that we do in the Midwest that that we
work really closely with that that do the machining for us.

Speaker 1 (01:51:12):
I want to make of that. What do they start with?

Speaker 8 (01:51:15):
It's all started from either a solid bar or tube
and then they make each of the components.

Speaker 1 (01:51:22):
All right, man, so tell people how to find you guys.

Speaker 6 (01:51:24):
No, first, I want to know about cleaning them. We
touch on cleaning them.

Speaker 1 (01:51:28):
Because everybody's actually going to clean one of those.

Speaker 9 (01:51:30):
You have to.

Speaker 6 (01:51:32):
You have to because mine right now, I have one,
the Vanish thirty, which you can change it from nine
to seven inches. You probably own one of those two,
do uh? And I'm guessing since you haven't cleaned it,
yours also is locked up and you can't take it
apart right now.

Speaker 1 (01:51:49):
Like mine, I wouldn't know because I don't have gone
and cleaned it. Yeah, so I should be cleaning it.

Speaker 6 (01:51:54):
Yeah, let's talk through that, because I think that's really
important because right now I'm comny shots.

Speaker 10 (01:52:00):
You know, the clean So they usually base it on
the fact that it may not need cleaning, but if
you wait too long, it's harder to get it apart. God,
so they say every couple hundred rounds.

Speaker 1 (01:52:08):
Okay.

Speaker 10 (01:52:09):
The thing that seems to work the best for cleaning
the eggs is taking all the baffles out and putting
it like a CLR that calcium lime rust remover. It's
basically acid. It'll eat the carbon right off of it.
Some people do a fifty to fifty mix, but you
probably don't want to use it on soak the whole
tube in there because it can mess up the Sarah coding.

Speaker 1 (01:52:25):
Just the baffles.

Speaker 10 (01:52:25):
Yeah, and you can run a brush through it to
get it out. But yeah, you can let the baffles.
I mean they're one hundred percent titano.

Speaker 1 (01:52:29):
So that's Sarah Codd titanium.

Speaker 10 (01:52:32):
Yeah, yep. Absolutely. You can see this. So the logo
sticks out. It's two layers of Sarah cotes, so you
have a different color. So when it gets engraved, you
can see the bottom layer as well.

Speaker 1 (01:52:41):
Well that's cool.

Speaker 6 (01:52:42):
Yeah, but so it's that easy unscrew the yeah, the
back you know, we have baffles out.

Speaker 10 (01:52:46):
Yeah, and we have a baffle removal tool if they
do get carbon up or you can actually push them out.
It's a little device that you turn and it pushes
the baffles out yep. And then you just basically put
it in cleaner overnight. It's going to eat it up.

Speaker 1 (01:52:57):
I feel like a jackass, and then just rinse them
to differ exactly.

Speaker 2 (01:53:01):
Yeah, exactly, your your zero will shift.

Speaker 1 (01:53:04):
To just like if you have just like if your
gun's filthy.

Speaker 8 (01:53:09):
Yeah, that's why he hasn't done it yet.

Speaker 1 (01:53:10):
Yeah, and also you can because maybe it was aware
of that, but just being dumb, I don't know.

Speaker 10 (01:53:16):
It starts messing with your volume too, So if you're
decreasing the volume and your signs or it can potentially
get louder so to be able to open up the
volume again.

Speaker 1 (01:53:22):
Right, here's another I got another question too, are you
good on cleaning? What's the at what point will there
be more of a discussion about suppressed shotguns and like
will you ever have it be that you can still
have a site of a flat plane on top.

Speaker 10 (01:53:38):
I know what's on our R and D list, Like
how do.

Speaker 1 (01:53:42):
You aim it? Do you know what I mean? Like,
it's like think about what to do to like traditional
shotgun shooting to have a raised Yeah, so.

Speaker 8 (01:53:50):
Yeah, you got to keep it under under that site
picture that you have on just your normal rifles today.
But you also don't don't want too much weight out
there to to impact your swing as you're you're pulling
ye bird either. So it's kind of a delicate, delicate
situation to design around on how do you how do
you keep it as small and light as possible but
still cut down that the sound on you know, your
twelve gage with a three inch magnum shell in there

(01:54:12):
and shooting geese out there. So he's he's been pestering
me quite a while to come up with one. So
we're working on one here.

Speaker 1 (01:54:19):
Well indoor country for old man. He had a sweet one.

Speaker 6 (01:54:22):
Yeah. Do you hear the sound out of that?

Speaker 1 (01:54:25):
Yeah, So that that could be a thing in the future.

Speaker 8 (01:54:29):
Yeah, absolutely, there's a there's a couple out on the
market today, but really trying to find one that works
for all hunting, all hunters and all aspects of you know,
whether that's turkey, de goose to duck or anything.

Speaker 1 (01:54:40):
Yeah. Well, I know one guy that shoots the suppress
around the shotgun for turkeys, but then he runs he
runs a red dot on an elevated platform to get
up and over the thing. But that has no for like,
wing shooting is just not a yeah, not a thing.

Speaker 6 (01:54:54):
Oh it's about to be, you think, So are you
just talking to say talking about Yeah, yeah, it becoming
a thing people in the industry that are like trying
it and going, oh my god, that works good.

Speaker 1 (01:55:08):
Oh okay. I still think of that as a very
loud activity.

Speaker 3 (01:55:14):
Wing shooting, shooting ducks.

Speaker 6 (01:55:16):
Oh, I'm talking about the elevated sights on shotguns.

Speaker 1 (01:55:19):
Oh yeah, okay, I think it meant like a way
that you'd ever solve you'd ever be able to wing
shoot with traditional form wing shoot a suppressed shotgun, because
think about it, like the can on the end would
change everything. It'd be above your rib. It'd be above
your rib and your bead.

Speaker 6 (01:55:39):
Although technically you're not looking at that anyways.

Speaker 1 (01:55:41):
Right, Okay, you know if your will primos apparently not.
I am aware of my bead when I shoot, even
though I should apparently should not be. All right, Well, Grace,
tell people how to find you so they can so
they can get some some they can talk through their
options on hearing protection. And I'm gonna if my wife

(01:56:04):
gets her way, I'm going to be coming to you
from my hearing aids pretty soon.

Speaker 4 (01:56:08):
There you go. So the best way to find us
is online.

Speaker 5 (01:56:11):
Our woll will take care of you of you stave
Odoprotechnologies dot com. That's O T O p R O
Technologies dot com.

Speaker 4 (01:56:20):
And then our.

Speaker 5 (01:56:21):
Telephone number is seven sixty nine two three zero zero
eight three four.

Speaker 1 (01:56:25):
My buddy Pat Dirkin, who I mentioned, he said he's
got a setting on his hearing aids where he can
make his grandkids basically vanish.

Speaker 5 (01:56:36):
Yeah, that wouldn't be too hard to do. Actually, you
just you find the picture of their voices and just
turn it down out.

Speaker 1 (01:56:41):
He said, he can mess with his He can make
it that he can't hear his wife. He can make
it that he only hears the TV. He can make
it that he doesn't hear his grandkids in the background.

Speaker 4 (01:56:49):
So tell me here.

Speaker 5 (01:56:51):
Hearing aids have become pretty cool little techie devices.

Speaker 4 (01:56:54):
They're not what your grandma were.

Speaker 1 (01:56:56):
Yeah, exactly. And then let's talk about how to find
Silence a central and how to begin the process of
getting a suppressor if you're in one of the four
fifths of states that allow you to do so.

Speaker 10 (01:57:11):
Yeah, you just go to silence orcentral dot com or
do Google search or silence are Central. And like you said,
we can mail the meat eater suppressor. After they do
the paperwork, it gets approved right to the front door,
so making it super convenient.

Speaker 1 (01:57:22):
No, fourteen months.

Speaker 10 (01:57:24):
We haven't seen any that long in a long time,
which is great.

Speaker 1 (01:57:26):
No, it's sitting in some weird backroom at the sporting
good store for fourteen months.

Speaker 10 (01:57:31):
No, Nope, it's super quick. I mean, like I said,
we're seeing three to five days on transfers. Yeah, it's
changed everything. Really. I mean we were talking about the
Hare Protection Act earlier. I think that there's less of
an argument for the Haring Protection Act, like you said,
now that you're getting up so quickly, because that was
the big plant, you know, the big pain point was
I gotta wait how long? And now that that's gone away,
I think that, you know, it's going to probably be

(01:57:53):
harder to pass a hairing Protection Act because people aren't
as passionate about it now.

Speaker 1 (01:57:57):
But I do like that little hook you were talking
about of being like, Okay, let's throw this into.

Speaker 10 (01:58:02):
Pittman roberts On hundred percent.

Speaker 1 (01:58:05):
Throw that two hundred bucks into that pile.

Speaker 10 (01:58:06):
Yeah, it's growing at forty percent per year, and that'd
be two hundred million this year. So that's a that's
a lot of money to go into conservation.

Speaker 1 (01:58:11):
Yeah, I mean, what's Pittman Robbins normally come in at
a billion? Yeah, somewhere around.

Speaker 3 (01:58:15):
A billion in the last couple of years. Yeah, that's
a huge.

Speaker 10 (01:58:18):
Yeah, it's the biggest I'm no mathematician, but big individual.

Speaker 3 (01:58:21):
Well, we just threw out four fifth, so I was
trying to do that math, but yeah, I.

Speaker 1 (01:58:24):
Can't help with that like that.

Speaker 3 (01:58:28):
I mean a good time to point out though too,
like Brandon and Silence through Central have been huge supporters
of conservation. They're donating a ton of suppressors for a
bunch of different groups that are kicking ass out there.

Speaker 5 (01:58:41):
And.

Speaker 3 (01:58:42):
A lot of good a lot of goods and services.

Speaker 10 (01:58:44):
So yeah, we're up to seven point six million dollars
since we started it. Really yeah, right, Yeah, the push
is anyone out there that has local conservation type activities
where they need a fundraiser, we give away free silencers
and we let them keep one hundred percent of the proceeds.

Speaker 1 (01:58:58):
So and then you guys run the process for whoever
wins it.

Speaker 10 (01:59:01):
Yep, exactly exactly, And our hope is they buy more
or people at the event hear about us, and it's
just kind of a you know, came up as a
word of mouth where it creates a win win where
you benefit conservation and also it benefits us to get
the word out that you can hunt with suppressors. Because
think we first started doing this, most people thought they
were illegal and most people thought you couldn't hunt with them.
So yeah, we really just started really strong in like
twenty twenty one, so to be able to give seven

(01:59:23):
point six millions a lot.

Speaker 3 (01:59:25):
Yeah, that's awesome.

Speaker 2 (01:59:26):
And the day this drops, the uh that suppress will
be available.

Speaker 1 (01:59:30):
Oh it will. Yep.

Speaker 10 (01:59:31):
We're taking bets internally on how long it lasts before
it sells out. I mean, it's this is a big deal.
This is impressive. I appreciate you guys coming to the
table and helping us create this. It's awesome.

Speaker 2 (01:59:41):
Yeah, it's a great one.

Speaker 1 (01:59:43):
Well thanks for coming on. Man, everybody, protect your ears.
And I don't know if you got if you got
little kids, protect your little kids ears. Man, I think
of the all town. I'm laying in bed at night
listening to my ears go. Yeah, all right, thank you guys.

Speaker 10 (01:59:59):
Yeah, thanks Steve, Thanks guys, appreciate it absolutely.

Speaker 11 (02:00:11):
And upon clear in here he lives knee reason out
on in the mountain. More days we didn't climb the
school mountainside across the smaller fla times. I remember it

(02:00:35):
is sage. I've never wall see you, see you over
the country in the west, never dreaming the beauty of
the Clear mount screams staring out.

Speaker 9 (02:00:47):
Over the will then.

Speaker 12 (02:01:01):
Sis.

Speaker 9 (02:01:02):
Memory is a.

Speaker 5 (02:01:06):
Time raid.

Speaker 9 (02:01:10):
Swelling spirited team, its predator and praying, super move.

Speaker 1 (02:01:30):
And super states.

Speaker 6 (02:01:31):
It's all the part of me.

Speaker 11 (02:01:32):
Is DNA, Steve anglem Sun of Grazy days of God
gets be off, be too dog ten.

Speaker 9 (02:01:49):
And cross cross snowies up the.

Speaker 6 (02:01:52):
State lood of memory to take time to memory.

Speaker 11 (02:01:57):
Their rides gone rise and I be the wep it
fast and breathe and lives a day.

Speaker 5 (02:02:12):
I lead.

Speaker 12 (02:02:16):
Sometimes memory's all you need.

Speaker 9 (02:02:20):
I leave type brandad.

Speaker 11 (02:02:24):
End.

Speaker 12 (02:02:24):
That's well the scarantine When I sometimes the memorie is
a mean, not.

Speaker 3 (02:02:37):
Type brand a man.

Speaker 1 (02:02:40):
That's well the scarantine

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Host

Steven Rinella

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Ep. 602: Are Suppressors Good or Bad for Hunters and Hunting?