Ep. 628: MeatEater Radio Live! A Goose Calling Champ, Tapeworm Cysts, and Toxic Sludge

Welcome to MeatEater Radio Live! Join Steve Rinella and the rest of the crew as they go LIVE from MeatEater HQ every Thursday at 11am MT! They’ll have segments, call-in guests, and real-time interaction with the audience. You can watch the stream on the MeatEater Podcast Network YouTube channel, or catch the audio version of the show on Fridays.

Today's episode is hosted by Spencer Neuharth, Janis Putelis, Cory Calkins, and Phil Taylor. 

Guests: 3x World Goose Calling Champion John Walls and author of Valley So Low, Jared Sullivan.

Connect with The MeatEater Podcast Network

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See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:04):
Smell Us. Now, lady, welcome to Meet Eater Trivia Meater Podcast.

Speaker 2 (00:26):
Welcome to Meet Eater Radio Live. It's eleven am Mountain
Time on November twenty first, and we're live from Meet
Eater HQ and Bozeman, Montana. I'm your host, Spencer Newhart,
joined today by Jannis Putellus and Corey Hawkins. On today's show,
we'll interview the three time world goose calling champion John Walls.
Then we have a rought report from Mark Kenyon, followed

(00:48):
by one minute fishing with Seth Morris. After that, we'll
have a chettiquet about Finders Keepers Rules. Then we'll interview
Jared Sullivan about his new book, Valley Solo, and finally
we'll look at a listener's drunken tattoo of penguins. But first,
Cory's going to regale us with tails from his recent
elk hunt.

Speaker 3 (01:07):
Well, yeah, thanks, Spencer. Finally harvested my general Montana bull
elk last week.

Speaker 1 (01:14):
How many years did that take?

Speaker 3 (01:16):
Felt like multiple? But it was a long archery season.
I passed up a lot of elk and had a
lot of close encounters with my bow as you did
as well.

Speaker 1 (01:24):
No, you got one last year, didn't you will your bow?

Speaker 3 (01:27):
I'm two years in a row filling my general elk
tag with a bowl. Yeah nice, but yeah. I went
out with a couple of colleagues actually to try and
harvest a cow for a non resident colleague of ours
who had a cow tag, and all we saw were bulls.
So three bulls come up over the hill and I
was able to drop one of them that stopped at

(01:48):
four hundred.

Speaker 2 (01:48):
Yards in a new spot for you.

Speaker 3 (01:50):
It's a spot I've hunted before, but it's one of
our colleagues secret go to late season elk spots that
he was.

Speaker 2 (01:58):
Held a few people in the office.

Speaker 3 (01:59):
Yeah, we were blindfolded until the sun came up. And
then as soon as the sun came up, looking through
the snow, I saw three bulls come over the hill
and it was pretty hard to say no this late
in the season. So filled my freezer.

Speaker 2 (02:11):
What was the one that you killed? His size versus
the other two?

Speaker 3 (02:15):
You know, I didn't get a great look at any
of them. It happened so fast they came up over
the hill. At first I thought they were other hunters
on the skyline. It was just it was dark enough
and there was a blizzard happened and snow was blowing sideways,
and they were probably five hundred and fifty yards. At
one point they saw us, and they actually skirted across
the mountain side closer to us, and I shot mine

(02:36):
at like four fifteen or something uphill twenty mile an
hour wind. Felt great about the shot. Yeah, just had
a window, and the one in the back, the elk
in the back, stopped to look at us one last time.
And that was the last decision he ever made.

Speaker 2 (02:48):
Jihanny, you should close your ears, you should close years
for this. But I recently declared Cory the best elk
hunter in the office. You think that's true?

Speaker 4 (02:57):
Oh?

Speaker 2 (02:58):
We kind of.

Speaker 1 (02:59):
Oh look at that face.

Speaker 2 (03:00):
Yeah, he didn't agree.

Speaker 1 (03:01):
I mean, I don't want to. I don't want to
make the guy feel bad. If you gave him that title,
then he shouldn't, you know, take wrong with it.

Speaker 2 (03:09):
Make a counter argument.

Speaker 1 (03:11):
Oh, I don't really want to do this right now.

Speaker 2 (03:14):
Because who would you say? Okay, if Corey's won.

Speaker 3 (03:18):
What makes him or one B kill themselves?

Speaker 2 (03:22):
And to be clear, Corey didn't make this declaration, I
know declaration.

Speaker 1 (03:27):
Then now you're asking me to tell you why he's
not the best one.

Speaker 2 (03:29):
Yeah, I am.

Speaker 1 (03:31):
I'm gonna pass. I like Corey my buddy.

Speaker 2 (03:34):
Okay, well who's who's one? B if Corey's one?

Speaker 1 (03:36):
A Oh boy, I haven't thought about this.

Speaker 5 (03:39):
Uh.

Speaker 1 (03:40):
I think I think we have a lot of good
elk hunters.

Speaker 2 (03:42):
Okay.

Speaker 1 (03:43):
The thing about being a good elk hunter or what
can it make you seem? What was going on over here? Folks,
you're live? Put your headphones actually here. I never cut
to this camera.

Speaker 6 (03:55):
I'm gonna cut to Kurn's camera here for your sex
so she can explain herself.

Speaker 1 (03:58):
There she is.

Speaker 7 (04:01):
I was on Instagram looking at our Meat Eater live promo,
just working and.

Speaker 8 (04:07):
Jimmy's first olt.

Speaker 2 (04:08):
Congratulations Jimmy, Yah and Karen bailed out Yanni from having
to talk about the best No.

Speaker 1 (04:13):
But I'll tell you, I mean, it's just so gray
and subjective because what can often seem like someone is
a great elk hunter is because they have extreme knowledge
about a certain area. Right Like, I know a guy
that kills a bowl every single year, and he probably
kills that bowl within five hundred yards of the spot

(04:35):
he killed the bull the prior year, You know what
I mean? Does that make him a great elk hunter.
He kills a bowl every year, but does it make
him a great elk hunter? You know what I'm saying.
So I think you just really have to look at
like a wide you know, like what's the entire you know,
elk hunting sort of repertoire experience, Like how many different

(04:58):
states has a guy killed a bull elk? You know,
how many different weapons? I don't know a lot of things.
Think think through about that, be think Corey he's a
good elk hunter for sure. I mean I've hunted elk
with him for a couple of weeks.

Speaker 2 (05:12):
Now my life.

Speaker 3 (05:13):
Yeah, and you were successful on one of those outings.

Speaker 2 (05:16):
That's right, good point, Corey.

Speaker 9 (05:19):
Spencer.

Speaker 3 (05:19):
I heard you just harvested a big game animals.

Speaker 1 (05:21):
Interesting, you know. Tyler says, congratulations.

Speaker 2 (05:25):
Oh, thank you? Tyler wurts uh, thank you?

Speaker 9 (05:27):
Yeah?

Speaker 1 (05:28):
Who's he saying congratulations to Spencer?

Speaker 2 (05:30):
Comma, congrats on the Nebraska mule deer I just killed
My biggest was.

Speaker 1 (05:35):
That place that happened while you think, Well, that happened
while Corey was saying, Hey, I heard you just killed
a buck, and there was already a comment I had it.

Speaker 6 (05:45):
Tyler probably saw it on Spencer's Instagram and.

Speaker 2 (05:52):
Now eleven six I see.

Speaker 1 (05:53):
It was a nice buck.

Speaker 2 (05:54):
Thank you. That was my biggest mule ever hunting Western Nebraska.
I haven't gotten many days of the mule deer rut
like that, where it was just like bucks were on
their feet all the time. Every group of does very
reckless and sometimes like deer hunters can curse the run

(06:15):
that it makes things too random, where it puts deer
in places you wouldn't expect to see them.

Speaker 1 (06:21):
Not for mule deer, though.

Speaker 2 (06:23):
Maybe not for mule deer. And I'm not nearly as
experienced at hunting muli's as I am whitetail, but there
can be a point in the white tail rut where
you're like, all the bucks are somewhere else, in a
place that they aren't normally found. They're bedded down in
a grassy fence row right now with some dough. They're
they're sitting in a wide open egg field that was
just cut and it just doesn't make sense because it's

(06:44):
the rut. This was the best mule deer rut though,
that I've ever gotten to experience. It's like just what
you want. Every group of does had a big buck
they were reckless, they were on their feets, they were
visible at all hours of the day, and it was
just a ton of fun. So I was happy I
got to experience that killed the biggest mu leaue, one
of the biggest mu leaus I've ever seen.

Speaker 1 (07:03):
Now, was that the first decent buck you saw? Because
You're not much of a passer, and so I'm wondering, like,
was it so good that you were, like, you know,
I'm gonna let a few of these medium bucks go.

Speaker 2 (07:14):
That day, I had seen about fifty deer. I killed
that buck probably fifteen minutes into shooting lights.

Speaker 4 (07:22):
It was.

Speaker 2 (07:22):
It happened quick, and I saw a handful of other bucks.
I wouldn't have passed on some bucks that were a
little smaller than him, but that that was an easy
decision to make. I passed on a few smaller bucks
the day before. But it's also I have permission from
a rancher in Nebraska who has a lot of ground,
so I'm fortunate to look at a lot of deer

(07:43):
when I'm there, so I know that that bucks like
this exist in places where I can hunt, and in
that case, it makes it easier to, you know, wait
for a big one.

Speaker 1 (07:51):
You want to talk about some lockdown going on. If
you live in Bosman, Montana right now, you can drive
just about anywhere in this town and find a white
tail buck down on a dough.

Speaker 2 (08:00):
Give me an example of where you've seen him.

Speaker 1 (08:02):
Where. Yeah, pick a golf course in this town. You
can see it there. I don't know what's the one
on Kegie is a value view?

Speaker 2 (08:11):
Oh yeah, that one's like kind of private. That that's
a weird golf course.

Speaker 1 (08:14):
But I got an invite actually yesterday to go play.
And when I get invited in this summer, I'll have you. Yeah,
not to play yesterday, but I got the invite yesterday
for next summer. But when I go play, I'll be like, hey,
can we bring another guy? I'll bring you along. You
do that, I would just say, cagy, yeah, just if
you just run kegye And if you don't see a

(08:35):
buck lockdown on a dough, then your eyes don't work.

Speaker 2 (08:39):
Last thing here, Yanni, before we do our first interview,
your dad has a correction or something to add about
thermals from the thermal discussion we had when he when he.

Speaker 1 (08:48):
Called, he was pretty fired up. He's like, you guys
almost had it right, oh, And I'm like, okay, well
what did we miss? And like I said, this is
the reason that I was fussing a pill a little
bit when he picked the thermal thing, because I said, well,
this is like a three hour show. We can discuss thermals.
But my dad said the important part that we miss

(09:09):
that might help people understand why this whole thermal thing
is working and why it actually does happen on flat ground.
And you don't know that he got me for saying
it really only works when in hilly country you're on mountains,
which isn't quite correct. You maybe experienced this hunting white
tailed deer in flat country. But so the first part

(09:30):
is that what is it that's actually getting cold or
when it gets in the air gets cold, why does
it sink? Right, Well, it gets denser because the moisture
in there, right, that's what's causing it to sink. When
it warms up, that moisture in there is becoming less
dense and causing it to rise, which is why if

(09:52):
you were in a tree stand on completely flat ground
with zero wind you might experience it where on a
super cold morning before the air has started to heat up,
that your scent would be dropping straight to the ground.
Not good. But then maybe later in the morning, just
you know, an hour later, as the day starts to warm,

(10:12):
the air is actually just moving straight up above you,
and so you'd almost be invincible when it comes to
like scent because there's no wind blowing it northeast west, south,
and the thermal would just be picking it straight up
and taking it up into the atmosphere.

Speaker 2 (10:30):
Yeah, you think we covered it now.

Speaker 1 (10:32):
I don't know, do you.

Speaker 2 (10:33):
Pot is Popayanni listening right now?

Speaker 1 (10:35):
You thin no? He's in deer camp in Wisconsin right now,
and there's poor service there.

Speaker 2 (10:40):
So Popayanni, when you hear this, you let Yanni.

Speaker 1 (10:43):
Know if forgot it, if I got it.

Speaker 2 (10:45):
Yeah, all right, moving on, joining us on the line.
First is the three time World goose Calling Champion John Walls.
John just won the Super Bowl of Goose Calling for
the third straight year. John, Welcome to the show.

Speaker 9 (11:00):
Hey guys, thanks for having man. Really appreciate it.

Speaker 2 (11:02):
John. First thing, tell us about the competition. How do
you get to the World Championship? How are the callers judged?
How do you prep for this thing?

Speaker 10 (11:12):
So the World Championship Goose Calling contest is open to
any caller. You don't have to you know, be invited,
have an inmitation, or win a contest throughout the year
to be entered into the world goose. Anybody can show
up and blow in it. How it's judged, You got
five judges. You have to tell a story to The

(11:33):
judges are a questioned, they can't see you. The contest
is made up with three rounds and they do the
Olympic scoring system. So the first rounds judge seventy to
eighty points, second round is eighty to ninety, third round
is ninety two one hundred.

Speaker 9 (11:48):
Each judge will give a caller a score.

Speaker 10 (11:51):
Once all five scores are tallied, they'll throw out the
highest and the lowest score.

Speaker 9 (11:56):
Keep it three in the middle, and those points accumulate
through three.

Speaker 10 (12:00):
Rounds and at the end of the third round, if
you're lucky enough to make it, if you have the
most points.

Speaker 9 (12:06):
Here the winner. Yeah, pretty, it's pretty cool.

Speaker 2 (12:10):
And for the judges, do you think that their ear
can pick up on who that caller is? Do you
think they know this is John, that's Tim, that's Bob,
or does it all sound you know, very different to them.

Speaker 9 (12:23):
It depends.

Speaker 10 (12:25):
So like for the World Contest, you have judges from
all across the country kind of, but there was a
few local ones and they've been doing it long enough
to where you know, certain callers have certain styles, certain sounds.
They can pick up on it as me as a
as a competitor. I know, if I was judging the
World Goose seventy five percent of the callers while they

(12:45):
were doing their warm up, I can tell you who
they are.

Speaker 9 (12:47):
Wow, which you know it kind of there's a curve
all into things.

Speaker 10 (12:52):
You deal with a little bit of politics there with
judging a little bit, but I mean with social media
and just all this content and stuff of you know,
people blowing Goose calls, it's become that way.

Speaker 1 (13:03):
Unfortunately, I got a question how close do they put
the judges from the callers, because my gripe sometimes with
some of these contests is if the caller is blowing
like towards the audience and the judges are behind them,
or if even if they're directly in front of them,
versus like I always feel like the judges should be
at the back of the room, which is sort of

(13:24):
the distance that a goose would hear you're calling from
right and adding that more air between their ears and
your call would sort of I don't know. I think
it would help for them to pick out the nuances.
So where do they put the call the judges?

Speaker 9 (13:41):
So that's changed over the years.

Speaker 10 (13:43):
The World Goose Call Championships held in a high school auditorium,
and you know that auditorium was built for you know, acoustics, sounds,
But to me, I swear that stage was built for
contest goose callers because it's just absolutely incredible and they're
the sound, the echo, just everything about it's awesome.

Speaker 9 (14:00):
For the longest time, when you.

Speaker 10 (14:02):
Walk out on stage, the judges were sitting behind you,
and then up till this year, for about four years
the judges were right on the other side of the state,
so you're pretty much standing right in front of them.

Speaker 9 (14:16):
Obviously they can't see you.

Speaker 10 (14:18):
But this year they put the judges in the far
back corner of the auditorium. And there's pros and cons
to it, but overall, I think it was better. Like
you said, you just get a better overall sound. The
way the sound echoes off the walls in the room,
it's just a little bit better.

Speaker 9 (14:33):
But yeah, the judges were in the far back corner
of the auditorium this year.

Speaker 2 (14:36):
And do you show up there knowing the routine that
you're going to do? Note for note and call for call.

Speaker 10 (14:43):
I do yup up to my warm up? I mean
everything about it. I know every single note of my routine.
I know exactly where I need to take my breast,
how much of a breath I need to do. I've
been doing this for eighteen years, so it's kind of
like second nature to me now. But I'm definitely a
note for no caller. There's certain callers that are, you know,
sequence callers are just just kind of, you know, wing

(15:03):
it when they're up there. But me, I know exactly
where I need to be and when and what I
need to be doing now.

Speaker 2 (15:08):
Phil robertson one set, and it's one of my favorite
quotes that that revolves around hunting. He said that a
live mallard wouldn't place in a duck calling competition. Can
you explain what he meant by that and how calling
in a competition is different than calling in the field.

Speaker 10 (15:24):
Sure, yeah, he's He's absolutely right too, especially with the
duck calling. It definitely has its place in the goose
calling world.

Speaker 4 (15:31):
Too.

Speaker 10 (15:33):
For competition style duck and goose calling, it's not really
trying to sound like the real bird.

Speaker 9 (15:39):
It's an operating contest.

Speaker 10 (15:41):
You know, how well a caller can operate the call,
push the call to the limit, you know, have confidence
in it, having flow and speed, and just showing your
overall you know, ability to do everything you can on
a call. But there is contests out there that they're
called live contests. They're a little bit shorter in time,
and the main goal in those contests are to sound

(16:03):
like a live hen mal or a couple of Kennedys.

Speaker 2 (16:06):
And do you still get humbled by geese when you
go hunting? Or do you fool them every single time?

Speaker 10 (16:12):
Now there's days man, well they they'll just fly right
by and flip me the bird literally.

Speaker 11 (16:19):
All right.

Speaker 2 (16:19):
Three straight wins at the World Goose Calling Competition for
short read that is something that has never been done before.
What do you do next?

Speaker 4 (16:26):
Then?

Speaker 2 (16:26):
Are you gonna go win a fourth next year?

Speaker 10 (16:29):
So I'm officially retired. Part of the World Duck and
Goose Calling Championship rules is if you win three, you're retired,
So I'm officially done. You know, people have their opinions
on that. I think it's pretty cool. It's been that
way forever. You know, you shoot for winning three and
then you're done. But I'm gonna miss it, you know, obviously.

(16:50):
But I am able to blow in the Champion of
Champions contests. So everybody that's won at least one World
Goose is able to blow in this contest, and they
hold that every five years, and actually it's next year
in twenty twenty five, so I'll be able to compete
in that, and then, uh, if I'm fortunate enough to
win that, I'm officially done competition goose calling on the

(17:11):
world stage.

Speaker 2 (17:12):
Okay, we're gonna be cheering for you. Now, what what
makes you better at calling geese than everyone else in
this competition?

Speaker 9 (17:21):
You know, I don't. I wouldn't say how I'm better.

Speaker 10 (17:24):
It's just how I've convinced those judges that, you know,
I sounded the best that day.

Speaker 9 (17:29):
You know.

Speaker 10 (17:29):
It's subjective, opinion based, you know, So it's it's just
I try to stand out a little bit more than
everybody else. Like I said, the judges are from all
different parts of the country, and they're used to hunting
different subspecies of geese which sound different. You know, geese
are different from all over the world. Even though they're
all goose, they're they're a little bit different. So just

(17:50):
having different cadences, different tones and stuff. I just try
to throw a little bit of everything in my routine
just to cover all the bases and and try to
convince them that I sounded the best of that day.

Speaker 2 (18:00):
John, We got a lot of people in the chat
today who were asking for tips. So give us some
tips that goose callers of all skill levels could use.

Speaker 10 (18:11):
You know, if you're trying to advance, I would definitely
try to get one on one, you know, lessons from somebody.
There's tons of stuff on social media on you know,
people showing you tips and tricks on how to blow
a goose call. But you know, listening to a video
it helps, but having somebody one on one there that
can see what you're doing, give you a little tips.

Speaker 9 (18:32):
And tricks right in person is so much better.

Speaker 10 (18:34):
And you know, even me, I mean, yeah, I'm the
world champion this, you know for the third time, but
you know, I'm no better than the next guy.

Speaker 9 (18:42):
I'm still learning stuff on a goose call to this day.

Speaker 10 (18:45):
You know, different cadences, different notes, different just all sorts
of different things. This thing as an instrument, it's like
a guitar. You know, there's so many different things you
can do. Just try to be as proficient as you
can on on a goose call. I mean, you're cheating
yourself if you know, you're just kind of hanging out
and being mediocre.

Speaker 2 (19:02):
You know, Can you play for us an award winning
goose calling sequence? Before you do that, explain what we're
about to hear.

Speaker 10 (19:11):
Yeah, so I'll do. I'll do a little sequence for you.
I'll start off kind of going slow. So in the
world goose, you're you're telling the judges a story in
a in a minute and thirty seconds of a flock
of geese off in the distance, you get their attention,
The geese come to you, say you or your buddy
moves in the blind, the geese flair. You got to

(19:31):
call them back and get them back into decoys and
you know, get them to the ground. So I'll kind
of start off slow, get fast, get slow again.

Speaker 9 (19:39):
I'll do an abbreviated part of a routine for you.
Real quick, might be might be a little loud.

Speaker 12 (20:03):
What wow, beautiful, that's amazing.

Speaker 2 (20:22):
That sounds like multiple.

Speaker 3 (20:24):
Geese at once. I don't know how you're doing that.

Speaker 9 (20:26):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's pretty cool.

Speaker 2 (20:29):
I feel spoiled. We just got an exclusive show, uh
from the best goose caller in the world. Congrats again
for doing something that's never been done before by winning
three straight World goose calling championships on the short read,
enjoy your retirement and thanks for joining us.

Speaker 9 (20:46):
Appreciate it, guys, Thank you very much. You'll have a
good one.

Speaker 1 (20:49):
Thanks John.

Speaker 2 (20:50):
Thanks John.

Speaker 7 (20:51):
People in the chatter as saying that they're gonna take
this part of our podcast and just play it outdoors.

Speaker 2 (20:58):
That might work.

Speaker 1 (20:59):
Make sure that's legal in your state before you do it.
That gave me goosebumps.

Speaker 6 (21:05):
Wow, I've got a lot of honking for a bonking
shout outs in the comments as well.

Speaker 2 (21:11):
I was disappointed I wasn't here that day for that tattoo.
That was so good.

Speaker 6 (21:15):
It's it's great. Every time I see a goose now
just walking around town, it's that's the only thing I
think of it. It's the only thing I about a thinking
for the rest of my life.

Speaker 1 (21:22):
Oh, I'm sad I missed it. What episode was that.

Speaker 2 (21:25):
Somebody had a tattoo that I don't know if they
said they regretted it, but they shared it with us,
and it was it was like a crudely drawn, childlike
effort at a making a goose. And then it said
honking for a bonkin. I don't think you need any context.
I think people wanted context, but you don't need any

(21:45):
context for that. It's just downright funny, all right. Our
next segment is the rot Report.

Speaker 1 (21:55):
Well we should find tail run.

Speaker 2 (21:57):
I can't believe it's already here.

Speaker 13 (22:00):
You shit, du tasu bye, cause your kids, goodbye, decide
to desert you.

Speaker 1 (22:14):
Wow.

Speaker 2 (22:14):
Thank you for that rut rule. The rout report is
where Mark Kenyon gives us a white tail hunting forecast
for each region. Take it away, Mark.

Speaker 4 (22:23):
Hey, guys, Mark Kenyon here from Wired Hunt, coming at
you with another whitetail rut report. And as you can see,
I am reporting from my home office, and that's because
my own personal rut marathon is tailing off, as is
the rut for many parts of the country. Now the
southern United States is a little bit unique, but for
the northern two thirds of the country, we are now

(22:46):
coming down off the bell curve of running activity. Over
the last two weeks. There's been a lot of seeking,
a lot of chasing. The peak of breeding happened for
most states right around the middle of November. We are
tailing off of that, so there are fewer do available
to breed now than there were, and because of hunting,
especially gun seasons opening, there's also a lot fewer bucks

(23:06):
out there to do the seeking and the chasing and
all that kind of good stuff. So the key things
to know about the rut for the next week to
two weeks is that it.

Speaker 1 (23:14):
Is slowing down.

Speaker 4 (23:16):
You're not gonna see as much activity as maybe you
saw the first week or second week of November, but
it is still happening. There are still some doze in estrus.
And the key thing here is that the big old
bucks know that. So this last week or two, right
around Thanksgiving, give or take, is a notorious time to
catch a very big, very old buck on his feet

(23:38):
doing the zombie walk, just cruising from betting area to
betting area. So here's the thing to think about. Spend
as much time as you can out there, be out
there midday if possible, and be in thick cover away
from hunting pressure in betting aears. That's where it's gonna
be here for these final weeks of the rut. Good luck.

Speaker 2 (23:57):
Yanni is heading out on his second run cation into
Wisconsin this year. Does that sound right? You think that's
what you're gonna see this week when you're out there.

Speaker 1 (24:05):
I sure hope. So some of them in Wisconsin I've
heard have the attitude of like, man, every minute that
goes by, you know, after opening the opening bell of
the opener, like your odds just go down, down, down,
down down. But I don't really believe in that. And
this year we're spending Thanksgiving there in camp, Like my

(24:27):
family is joining us next Wednesday. So I'm gonna hunt
pretty close to every day of the of Wisconsin's nine
day gun deer season. And yeah, I'm looking forward to
exactly what Mark's talking about. Like I won't be hunting,
you know, dawn to dusk every day, but I'm definitely
gonna be putting a couple hours in and it doesn't

(24:47):
matter if it's going to be a daylight or at noon.
I'm gonna go out there and you know, peak around
and hopefully find zombie buck.

Speaker 2 (24:53):
I think those pessimistic hunters you're talking about that would
be true if you're hunting on public land forty minutes
it's from Milwaukee. But if you have a private piece
of ground to yourself that is well managed, yeah you
can feel optimistic for that whole week of Thanksgiving.

Speaker 1 (25:11):
Yeah well, I mean yeah, right next to a big
metropolitan area maybe, but there's other public land around. And
according to the people I like to listen to, they're like,
by Thanksgiving, the dear pretty much a're back.

Speaker 2 (25:24):
To normal, we hope. So for your case, thank you.
Let's take a break for some listener feedback. Phil what's
the chand have to say, Yeah, We've.

Speaker 6 (25:32):
Got a couple things I just wanted to shout out. First,
Joe just had a baby with his wife did and
he's also there. He's listening from the hospital.

Speaker 2 (25:41):
Congrats Joe, Congrats Joe.

Speaker 6 (25:44):
We've got another hospital listener from ant Man says he's
listening from the hospital because his spouse just got done
getting her gallbladder taken out. So shout out to the
husband's out there supporting, supporting their wives, but also not
paying attention to them. To listen to media to radio,
You're doing great. See Garrett's wondering Spencer, why you strongly
favorite deer hunting.

Speaker 2 (26:05):
I don't know, it's just like what I'm familiar with.
It's what I grew up doing. I also like to
solo hunt a lot, and it is daunting to, you know,
going out trying to kill an elk when you're by yourself.
Deer hunting is also what I love about whitetails is
you're hunting the same animal whether you're in Maine or
Saskatchewan or Texas. And I like to travel around and hunt,

(26:30):
and so I think I think those are my favorite
things about deer hunting.

Speaker 6 (26:34):
I'm not going to put any of you on the
spot to actually do a call, but Jeremiah's wondering what's
the best call each of you can do if you have,
if you're proud of anything, any skills you have, and
you can show them off if you like to.

Speaker 8 (26:46):
You don't have to.

Speaker 2 (26:46):
Oh, Johanna, you got the far away out call right.

Speaker 1 (26:49):
If you can do a spot on weed eat or call,
it doesn't help much in the woods.

Speaker 9 (26:53):
Uh huh.

Speaker 1 (26:54):
I'd like to hear that. What's my best call? I
don't know.

Speaker 2 (26:59):
Probably Steve always hypes up your far away elk call.

Speaker 1 (27:03):
Oh yeah, but that's it's just like a fun.

Speaker 2 (27:08):
Yeah, well, I thought, look at doing a spot on
weed eater. That's just a fun thing as well.

Speaker 1 (27:13):
One time I called in heard though by whistling. It
only happened once. I've tried tried it since, but no results.
I don't know. Probably an elk or a turkey would
be my best call.

Speaker 2 (27:24):
I feel like I can do an okay, uh hen
turkey call with with just my mouth with no calling.

Speaker 1 (27:34):
Yeah that's good.

Speaker 2 (27:36):
Yeah, there you go, Corey. You got any uh any
calls at your best?

Speaker 1 (27:39):
At man?

Speaker 3 (27:40):
I feel like just estrous cow calls. I can't do
it with just my mouth a diaphragm, and I have
called in a pretty sizable bull elk with a blade
of grass. Oh, I didn't have any calls on me?

Speaker 2 (27:49):
Hell yeah? And then what happened?

Speaker 3 (27:52):
It wasn't seasoned yet unfortunately too, so we just watched
him walk five years.

Speaker 1 (27:56):
That's why he's the best elk hunter in the office.

Speaker 6 (28:00):
Chris is asking if you would cut around suspected tapeworm
CIS and a deer liver or just pitch it.

Speaker 2 (28:07):
I I don't know enough about tapeworm CIS, but yeah,
I'm probably not keeping that, you.

Speaker 1 (28:14):
Know, that's funny. We just got a text from can
I do I have enough time to find it?

Speaker 2 (28:22):
You can address it later in the show.

Speaker 1 (28:25):
Okay, you can.

Speaker 2 (28:26):
You can look for the text now.

Speaker 1 (28:27):
Yeah, I'll look for the text now.

Speaker 2 (28:28):
Corey and any thoughts getting rid of that thing? Yeah,
not risk it.

Speaker 6 (28:34):
A lot of Yanni Central content people are asking about
getting some fuzz here on if anyone's phone is near
the mics.

Speaker 1 (28:42):
We're live, folks getting something. I'll try to I'll try
to find I'm just on internet. We'll troubleshoot. Great.

Speaker 6 (28:49):
Danish I'm guessing is asking if we could get some
gear talk segments on radio live. And I'm mainly throwing
this out there because we've I think it's a great idea.
That idea, Yeah, it's a I don't know if you're
aware this, honest, but we've actually talked about maybe doing
something like this. We're pitching the show is bringing gear
talk stuff back. So is that something you'd be interested in?

Speaker 1 (29:07):
Sure?

Speaker 2 (29:08):
Yeah, future segment we're gonna have Yanni talking gear.

Speaker 6 (29:12):
Quick five minute gear and we will do one more. Mainly,
this is going to be a promo. I'm setting you up,
be honest, Yannis, what's the hunting fishing, like in Latvia.
He's visited family in Lithuania before and they got a
few yellow perch. Is there anywhere this person could go
Villius Vilius to find some quality Latvia and hunting content.

Speaker 1 (29:33):
Oh yeah, Well I've made two episodes about hunting in
Latvia which are on meter YouTube channel now, and there's
also an upcoming episode. I don't know, it'll probably be
out sometime in twenty twenty five where I hunted this
past summer. But it was It's great hunting. It's not
as difficult, I would say, as most hunting here. I

(29:56):
don't know. It's just it's a small place in Critics
just don't seem to be able to get away from you.
They're allowed to use thermals.

Speaker 2 (30:05):
You described it for like it's some gloves off situation. Yeah,
Like the goal is.

Speaker 1 (30:09):
To kill an animal, yeah, for sure, for sure. But
yeah I've hunted red deer there and pigs and raccoon,
dogs and road deer, which I killed one this summer
which was cool, kill a full grown buck that was
only fifty pounds. You can do that, Cameron Haynes thing,
you know, you throw them on your shoulders and walk

(30:31):
out really easily with those little road deer.

Speaker 2 (30:33):
Did you do that?

Speaker 9 (30:34):
I did.

Speaker 2 (30:35):
The other thing I know about hunting in Latvia is
that Yanni smoked a cigarette. There was that a celebratory
cigarette or was just like it was part of the culture,
so you thought you should have one.

Speaker 1 (30:44):
So that was my first trip ever there. It was
literally my first five hours, maybe three hours of being
in Latvia. And so yes, I was celebrating sort of
a homecoming in a way, and.

Speaker 2 (30:55):
You wanted to smell like Latvian.

Speaker 1 (30:57):
We were sitting outside of this, you know, late night
Pete's joint, and joined some beers with some friends I
hadn't seen in a decade or more, and uh, you know,
my crew from meat Eater was there. We're having a
great time and some gals next to us are smoking
up cigarettes one after another, and I just thought, you know,
when in Riga, h have a cigy was it satisfying? No,

(31:18):
it was a bad decision. I also told you take
me four days to brush that taste out of my mind.
He might get mad at me for bringing this up.

Speaker 6 (31:27):
When we went to uh to Venice for the for
the Mediat Experiences, Randall was technically on vacation. So the
first thing we did on the way to the marina
was stop at a store so Randall will get a
pack of cigarettes.

Speaker 1 (31:39):
I think he told me he smoked too, And then
through the rest of the back way.

Speaker 2 (31:44):
Content that's vacation behind the sea we need on media radio.

Speaker 7 (31:50):
I'm just going to chime in for two things really quickly,
Vilious shout out to you my paternal grandfather's Lithuanian. And
then also, I want to go back to the tape
worm larvas cyst. So a friend of mine, Kristen, shot
deer and sent me a photo of you know, it

(32:10):
looks gross little white cists like rice looking things in
her liver, and she wasn't sure what that was. So
I sent a picture to Jim Heffelfinger and he said
that the tapeworm larvas cysts are harmless to humans, but
don't let your dog eat it. Okay, I mean you

(32:30):
may not be wanting to eat that stuff.

Speaker 2 (32:32):
But if you trust the world's best to your biologists,
then go ahead and enjoy that liver, but don't let
your dog. All right, Moving on, our next segment is
one minute fishing.

Speaker 1 (32:43):
Do I feel lucky?

Speaker 14 (32:45):
We'll do you unk, go ahead, make my cast.

Speaker 2 (32:51):
One minute Fishing is where we go live to someone
who's fishing and they have one minute to catch a fish,
and if they're successful, we'll make a five hundred dollars
donate to a conservation group. This week, our angler is
Seth Morris who's on the Gallatin River in Montana and
he's fishing for a donation to Whileyes Unlimited. Seth, Welcome
to the show.

Speaker 11 (33:12):
How's it going, guys?

Speaker 2 (33:13):
Going good? Seth had to go to a river today
because all of the still water in Bozeman is now
frozen up. Seth, Uh, what's the tactic we're using today
to catch a trout?

Speaker 11 (33:25):
Well, I got the old trusty spinning rod again. I
got a spoon on. It's called a nitty one. I
don't hope you can.

Speaker 1 (33:32):
See that made in Pennsylvania.

Speaker 11 (33:35):
I used to catch a lot of trout in Pennsylvania
on this thing, So we're gonna give it a shot.
I will admit we have been fishing here for the
last twenty minutes and haven't caught anything.

Speaker 2 (33:44):
So you're gonna keep doing the same thing, or you're
trying something different. For one minute fishing.

Speaker 11 (33:49):
I just recently switched up to this made a couple
of casts. So okay, well see there's actually risers right now.

Speaker 3 (33:56):
I should have but yep, heard that.

Speaker 1 (33:59):
Yeah, we see what we can do.

Speaker 2 (34:01):
Corey. Uh it's now winter in Montana. You've got rising
fish there on the gallats. And what would you be
doing if you were trying to catch one of these things?

Speaker 3 (34:09):
Oh, tie on a little size twenty blueing olive.

Speaker 2 (34:13):
Okay, dry fly, m.

Speaker 11 (34:14):
I will say there there has been fly fishermen here
the whole time we've been here.

Speaker 1 (34:18):
They haven't caught anything.

Speaker 2 (34:20):
Oh all right, well, Seth is they're gonna show them
up right now. Seth, you're one minute of fishing starts
when you make your first cast. Go ahead, all right,
let's do it.

Speaker 1 (34:31):
They're getting fooled by those risers. You know, there's like
ten percent of the fish or eating those bugs on
the surface, the other ninety percent or eating the the
uh emerging emerging bugs in the water column.

Speaker 3 (34:45):
Yeah, they're just seeing the tails go back down. Perhaps
maybe you'll hook a big old mountain white fish for something.

Speaker 1 (34:51):
Sex snagg it in the tail.

Speaker 2 (34:52):
Twenty seconds in one cast down, he's not jerking at all.
Looks like he's fishing a little slower water off of.

Speaker 9 (35:03):
The main current.

Speaker 3 (35:03):
Here, nice little back eddie.

Speaker 2 (35:08):
Twenty five seconds to go before you, seth. He's e fishing.
He's not like Randall getting his lure hung up in
the trees. Ten seconds to go, seth.

Speaker 1 (35:27):
That's a good angle. It's tough.

Speaker 2 (35:32):
Time is up. No donation today for Walleyes Unlimited.

Speaker 1 (35:37):
I didn't have a whole lot of hope.

Speaker 9 (35:39):
But we're dry.

Speaker 2 (35:41):
Well. Next time we're gonna send Corey out there. He's
gonna have his fly rod and he's gonna show you
and those other fly fishermen how it's done.

Speaker 11 (35:49):
No, I think next time we should punch a few
holes in some ice there you go.

Speaker 2 (35:54):
I imagine on the mead theater pond there's like what
inch and a half of ice right now. So we're
gonna have to wait another a couple of weeks.

Speaker 1 (36:00):
Probably, Yeah, it'll freeze up quick.

Speaker 2 (36:03):
All right. Thank you for joining us, seth.

Speaker 6 (36:05):
Uh.

Speaker 2 (36:06):
Maybe catch one of those and send us a photo.

Speaker 4 (36:08):
We'll do.

Speaker 3 (36:09):
Thanks you guys, you made that look way too easy.
In Louisiana a couple weeks ago, Yanni, you.

Speaker 2 (36:16):
Were you were definitely chumming the water before that, right.

Speaker 1 (36:19):
I mean that's we're fishing at a fish cleaning station.
Water is constantly chummed.

Speaker 2 (36:25):
Uh huh yeah, yeah, That'll probably the only time we
have somebody catch like six fish in the one minute
fishing segment.

Speaker 1 (36:31):
Well, we also had two anglers going after it. But yeah,
if there was a place where it was just about guaranteed,
that was it.

Speaker 2 (36:40):
All right. Our next segment is from Chester Floyd. This
is Chetticutt c g T qu you.

Speaker 1 (36:46):
E t t E find out. Bud means to me
c g t A c you t T take care of.

Speaker 2 (36:57):
This week, Chester is answering a listener's question about finders
keepers rules in the Alaskan backcountry.

Speaker 15 (37:03):
Take it away, chet, Hello, everybody, my name is Chester
Floyd and I'm coming at you from a basement in Wisconsin.
And this week's Chettikit comes to us from Cooper, and
Cooper writes, I've been an Alaskan hunting and fishing guide
for twelve years, and I'm generally against do it yourself

(37:24):
moose hunts for various reasons. In September of twenty twenty three,
a group of three men did a DIY moose hunt
on a remote river. They successfully harvested a legal bowl,
but due to their inexperienced navigating, they hit several log
jams and in the end had to call for a
helicopter rescue in Alaska. That meant leaving all their gear

(37:48):
and even the moose behind. In August twenty twenty four,
I took my jetboat up the same river, found the
rafts and even spotted the moose racks still attached to one.
Just as I was about to give up, I noticed
something red sticking out of a log jam, and after
scavenging the area, I recovered about ten thousand dollars worth

(38:10):
of gear, including optics, a bone my size, and other equipment,
though no rifles. Both items were still in working condition
and I split them up amongst the guys and packers.
Now I'm wondering should I have made an effort to
contact the hunters and return their gear or does finders

(38:32):
keepers apply here?

Speaker 9 (38:36):
We Cooper's getting.

Speaker 16 (38:46):
Tired of moose trip guys saying that they can roll.
It's only DIY and float trip guys are always rolling
rafts in the river holes.

Speaker 9 (38:58):
Super is a hunting who in Flora yet bull ride.
Believe it or.

Speaker 16 (39:06):
Not, you found those raps and I'll be damn the
moose racks still attached. When you're on a moose trip bowl,
you better keep the damn thing a float. Oreo by
Rite of Tears, handsome guy named Cooper will be drinking.

Speaker 9 (39:26):
You're still cold?

Speaker 4 (39:31):
Why.

Speaker 15 (39:35):
I think it's wonderful that you went in there and
got all that inevitable trash off the river. I think
if you want to keep that stuff, you shouldn't feel bad.
But I'm going to tell you what I would do.
I would call that guy or try and contact those
fellas and let him know what you got. There's a

(39:57):
chance that those guys might say keep some of it.
There's a chance they might say they want it all back.
Who knows. They were inexperience. They probably shouldn't have been
doing what they were doing. But I don't know if
I could live with myself with all that stuff of
theirs and not be thinking about it for a long
time to come. If I found a wallet in a bar,

(40:22):
no matter how drunk the guy was or something, I'd
call the guy and try and give it back. This
is way different, and it was like a year later,
and it would have been just left there for trash.

Speaker 9 (40:33):
So, like I said, you want to keep that.

Speaker 15 (40:35):
Stuff, I don't think you should feel too bad about it.

Speaker 9 (40:39):
They left it there, but I would call him personally.

Speaker 2 (40:43):
Thank you Chester a beautiful and clever song from him
to recap. We had some DIY moose hunters in Alaska
who got in a bad place, had to call for
a helicopter rescue. And then it sounds like a year later.
Like a year later, a guide went in there and
found their gear and moose rack and took some of
it with him. Thoughts on that.

Speaker 1 (41:06):
I pretty much agree with Chester. But if I was
gonna call him and they were like, oh, we'd like
our gearbag, I'd be like, Okay, well this is what
it's gonna cost you. Otherwise I wouldn't give it back
to him.

Speaker 2 (41:19):
Corey, you guided some days in your life. What do
you think about this?

Speaker 3 (41:22):
Yeah, I found a lot of river booty in my
time on the rivers, and I give you some examples. Well,
let's see, I used to guide in the Bob Martial
Wilderness and we would do seven day pack trips and
saw a guy lose all his stuff. He slipped on
a rock, lost stuff including his rod, and he was
like flagging us down like, hey, help me look for
my rod. And we never found it that day. But

(41:43):
a week later, when we came back in and threw
down on the river, we knew that there was going
to be fishing stuff there. The river had dropped quite
a bit late summer, and so between myself and another
guide we were kind of racing to get down there
to see who could find anything. And sure enough, there
was the tip top of a flod sticking right there
and I was able to grab it. Beautiful sage rod.

(42:03):
I still have it to this day. Hell yeah, And
I just put out a Craigslist notification that I found
this in the middle of the Bob Marsha Wilderness and
anybody wants it back. I got it and never heard anything.
And then I found rods in the Gallatin or along
the Gallatin on Highway one ninety one and put out
a Craig Craigslist ad and the guy got back to me.

(42:25):
Damn gave me fifty dollars for finding easily two thousand
dollars worth of gear sitting on the side of the highway.

Speaker 1 (42:30):
So yeah, I think in all of those instances that's
the right thing to do.

Speaker 3 (42:34):
This one's different, though, but again.

Speaker 1 (42:36):
Here it's like these boys should have the right thing
they should have done is to hire somebody to go
back in there and get their junk out of the woods.
They just left it.

Speaker 2 (42:45):
Well, I think this guy said he came back in
August to get him. We don't know when those moose
hunters were there, but probably the fall before. Yeah, so
he You know, those guys had all summer to either
come back themselves or send someone else in there to
get it.

Speaker 3 (42:59):
Yeah, that's pretty frustrating, little wanton waste too, leaving all
that moose meat back there.

Speaker 2 (43:04):
Yeah, that was a unique chettiquette, right, And normally the
chettiqut questions like what happens if someone sits one hundred
yards from me on public land? We're never going to
get another one like what we just had.

Speaker 1 (43:15):
I do think I would like to add that I
don't think that the guy should be too upset or
or not. You know, pro DIY moose hunts sure because
of events like this. I mean, it's events like this
to actually make a DIY moose hunt the adventure that
it is, because there is the chance of this happening

(43:35):
and you have to go in there and face those
hurdles and face those challenges, and you know, some people
may not be prepared for it, and they're gonna have
to get you know, air lifted out or whatever. But
I hope that people go and keep trying to do
adventures like that forever, you know, and hopefully some will fail.
I mean, like the guy we interviewed the other day

(43:55):
on the Meter podcast. Do you try to live in
the woods on a river near him? Found him dead?

Speaker 2 (44:01):
Oh?

Speaker 1 (44:01):
Not, everybody's cut out for it.

Speaker 6 (44:03):
Sneak sneak peak for an episode that won't be airing
for several weeks.

Speaker 2 (44:07):
All right, Thank you Cooper, Thank you Chester. Joining us
out on the line. Last is author Jared Sullivan, who
just released his new book, Valley So Low. It's about
the Kingston, Tennessee Fossil Plant disaster, which was the worst
coal ash spill in American history. Jared, Welcome to the show.

Speaker 5 (44:27):
Hey, y'all, thanks for having me. I appreciate it.

Speaker 2 (44:29):
First thing, Jared, give us some background on the Kingston
fossil Plant.

Speaker 1 (44:34):
Yeah, it was.

Speaker 9 (44:34):
It was.

Speaker 5 (44:35):
It's a huge Colpire power plant built by the Tennessee
Valley Authority, which is like an cornerstone of the New
Deal created by FDR TVA helped lift the South out
of poverty during the Great Depression by basically throwing up
all these hydroelectric dams than coldpire power plants brought industry here.
So over several decades, coal ash is like the what's

(44:58):
left over when you're burning cold the electricity. It's like
a city sandy gross stuff. It's full of arsenic and
silica and radium, just like nasty gross stuff. So this
a big pile of it had accumulated over five or
six decades. And this pile was six stories tall and
eighty four acres around, and in the middle of the

(45:19):
night in December of two thousand and eight, this big
thing just collapsed into the middle of the river or
cover it into a river, but also covered a bunch
of land. It covered three hundred acres in this gross
coal sludge. So my book, that's kind of where it starts,
is this big mountain of coal sludge collapsing it kind
of it kind of goes from there and follows some
of these some of these workers in an attorney who

(45:41):
get involved in the fray and with this coal ash.

Speaker 2 (45:44):
What impacts does that have on soil, water plants, animals.

Speaker 5 (45:48):
Oh, it's it's like nasty stuff.

Speaker 7 (45:50):
Man.

Speaker 5 (45:50):
It's like you wouldn't you don't want any anywhere near you.
I found old newspaper dispatches from our local paper here
in Nashville or fishermen and back in the sixties complaining
that it's killing fish tied to their stringers as there
as they're going down the lake and fishing and stuff. Yeah,
it's like it's just full gross stuff. So basically what

(46:10):
happened after this big mountain of bash collapsed, nine hundred
men and women from a cost the country to send
on the site to help clean it up. These blue
collar workers and TVA Tennessee Valley Authority and one of
the contractors basically just didn't supply them with respirators and
dust masks, and so these workers over a number of
years are just as are just inhaling this coal ash

(46:31):
stuff that's in the air. Because it started off really
mucky and sludgey all over the ground. But eventually in
Tennessee's hot, this stuff after a year or so under
the sun, it starts blowing around the job site. These
workers start inhaling it. They're inhaling arsenic and radium and
all this really really nasty stuff. So they fall sick
really really fast. And they approached this local personal injury

(46:51):
attorney and Knoxville named Jim Scott, who was kind of
the only person who would hear them out. He he's
not like a big hot shot lawyer binding me. He
has a little office in Knoxville, like in a strip mall,
and he he's not the most like organized attorney, but
he had a lot of heart, and he listened to
these blue collar workers and went to bat for them

(47:12):
to try to get them damages. So my book's kind
of like a legal thriller in that regard.

Speaker 2 (47:17):
Give us some examples of the fallout for these people
who worked to clean up that coal ash man.

Speaker 5 (47:23):
I should say a lot of these people were sportsmen,
like one worker I followed in particular name. His name
is Ansel Clark. He's passed away. He's like a big
squirrel hunter. He liked to go a shoot. Squirrell took
a twenty two magnum on the Cumberland Plateau here in
East Tennessee or in East Tennessee. Within a couple of years,
Ansel heart failure, canest of heart failure, lung problems. He

(47:43):
eventually gets He eventually got this really rare form of
blood cancer, and he had a stroke in twenty twenty
one and died. So more than fifty of these workers
who helped clan up this this big mess are dead now.
So I really think it's American tragedy. TVA has done
a lot of good for this part of the country.
It's created a lot of beautiful reservoirs that are great

(48:05):
for fishing and all this stuff, but it has not, been,
in my view, a very good environmental steward in recent years,
which is a real shame.

Speaker 2 (48:13):
And why wasn't this a bigger story when it happened.
If this was the country's worst coal catastrophe ever, why
sixteen years are most of us just hearing about it now?

Speaker 5 (48:24):
Yeah? I mean it was not only like the largest,
one of the largest coal disasters, one of the one
of the largest environmental disasters full stop in the United States,
one hundred times larger than Excellent Valide's. This coal last
sludge was a billion gallons. It could have filled the
Empire State Building four times over. I mean, it was
biblical in scope what happened, but it was this happened
days before Christmas, two thousand and eight, the New I

(48:45):
think the news media was slow to respond. Also, like
the there's a lot of other stuff happening in the country.
The economunists on its knees because of the financial meltdown,
Barack Obama was about to become president.

Speaker 9 (48:58):
It was people.

Speaker 5 (48:58):
I think people were just distracted, right, I mean, it
just people didn't have their arm, you know, we just
weren't falling with that closely. So And also like TVA,
they came out and said after this big, after this
all the sludge got everywhere, that it was not it
didn't pose a threat to the public. So I think
the media kind of went, Okay, great, like this isn't
this isn't that toxic, We won't worry about it. Well,

(49:19):
it turns out that that was not truthful at all.
I found memos from the National Archives that show that
TVA has known since nineteen sixty four that this coal
ash slough stuff can peel the pant off your car
and get you away at vegetables and your vegetable guard
if it falls over it. So it's just just nasty,
nasty stuff.

Speaker 1 (49:37):
Man.

Speaker 2 (49:37):
And you're a local to that area, Jared, what do
you remember in two thousand and eight when this happened
about the cold catastrophe.

Speaker 5 (49:46):
That's a good question. I grew up in south of Nashville,
and I remember watching on the news and there's I
would recommend your viewers go listen to pull the helicopter
footage from that day. Man, it will stick with you.
A billion downs of sludge over three hundred acres. So
I remember, I remember watching this footage. I remember TVA
people coming on television saying this stuff, Yeah, I can

(50:08):
might contain some arsenic, but it's like it's like not
a big deal. I remember them saying that. Then jump
ahead ten years. I was an editor. First, I was
an edit filming stream, but in twenty eighteen I was
an editor at Men's Journal. I remember I came across
these courtroom dispatches where these sick workers went to trial
to try to get damages for their illnesses. So when

(50:29):
when I read those dispatches, I knew exactly what the
story was. I mean, I knew I remember the spill happening,
and I just thought, this is a story I want,
I want to dive deep into. So yeah, I spent
five years reporting a book about what happened, and I
kind of wrote it as a, like I said, a
legal thriller following this kind of like small town lawyer
trying to do right by his by his neighbors and

(50:50):
by his community, and trying to seek damages for these
for these workers. So yeah, the book's called Valley Solo,
and I hope y'all hope your listeners check it out.

Speaker 2 (50:58):
And when viewed through the courtroom store that plays out
in the book, do you feel saddened by our country's
legal system or was it the opposite and you're encouraged
because people like Jim Scott exist.

Speaker 5 (51:09):
No, it's pretty I'm pretty like No, it's I was
already like pretty sally cynical, but when I started this project,
it made me very cynical about the EPA, about their
ability to monitor, protect to protect folks from from hazards.
The EPA has had a good idea for a long time.
But this coal lash stuff is toxic too, but it's
not technically considered a hazards waste by the EPA, which

(51:31):
is a shame because this stuff is nasty, It hurts
the environment, it hurts people, It contaminates thousands of miles
of American rivers each year. This coal lash stuff. There's
seven hundred and fifty of these pawns throughout the United States.
It's not just a Tennessee problem. It's a national problem.
But EPA has been hasn't regulated it well enough to
the detriment of wildlife into people. But yeah, it's also

(51:54):
just a tragic legal tale. Like I mean, this is
not a shocker, I guess, but like blue collar workers
going up against huge, billion, multi billion dollar organizations, you
know that billion dollar organization is going to win even
if they even if the workers, even if the jury
sides with the worker. These billion dollar companies they hire
these slick lawyers and they can just appeal and appeal

(52:16):
and appeal and appeal forever and basically and force you
to capitulate. Basically like force forced the They forced the
workers in my case to take a settlement that was
in my viewway below what they deserved because they can
just drive the case out forever. That's what happened in
Exon Valadies too. You know the Excellon Validees wrecked that
Alaska fishery. Well, a jury ruled against Exon in that case,

(52:38):
but ex all went out and hired these slick lawyers,
the same lawyer, and they could just drive the cass
up forever. So eventually these Alaska fishermen just capitulated and
they just took whatever because after a decade or so,
they're like, we have to move on with our lives,
you know, we have to. I can't keep fighting exellon
court in the same very similar story would happen with
my book. Our system is not set up deal with

(53:01):
disasters like this, in my view.

Speaker 2 (53:03):
I saw a lot of reviews from people from Tennessee
who thanked you for writing this book because it was
a story that needed to be told. So I'm want
to thank you again for giving a voice to those
people who are impacted by the disaster. Valley Solo is
available right now wherever books are sold. Jared, thanks for
joining us in. Congrats on the book.

Speaker 5 (53:23):
Thanks y'all going to see it. Spencer, Thanks Jared.

Speaker 7 (53:27):
All right.

Speaker 2 (53:27):
Our next segment is Tattoos. I regret.

Speaker 14 (53:34):
Hello Darkness, my old friend. I've looked at my tattoo again.
It really seemed such a good id when I was
drunk last summer and the pizza tattoo says the first
ander that will always find more bees.

Speaker 9 (53:58):
What the does that mean.

Speaker 14 (54:02):
It's a tattoo.

Speaker 1 (54:11):
We just need to come up with more segments.

Speaker 8 (54:14):
So Phil, that is just amazing.

Speaker 7 (54:17):
No, you gotta you just gotta put every single jingle
like in one audio record.

Speaker 3 (54:23):
That's it.

Speaker 2 (54:24):
Phil said he had people complaining about the usual sound
that we use for tattoos. I regret so.

Speaker 9 (54:32):
Person.

Speaker 1 (54:33):
I'm not gonna name him.

Speaker 2 (54:34):
Uh huh, Yeah, that was beautiful.

Speaker 1 (54:36):
This is his first name start with S and the
last name to start with R.

Speaker 6 (54:39):
It's very possible.

Speaker 2 (54:41):
Today's regrettable tattoo comes from Austin Tarby. If you have
a hunting or fishing related tattoo that you regret, email
us at radio at the Medeater dot com. All right,
Phil has now pulled up the picture of Austin's tattoo.
Here is his story. I have a hunting tattoo that
I I regret. This tattoo was done on a drunken,

(55:03):
irresponsible New Year's Eve. For some reason, my buddy Kyle's
parents thought that it would be a great idea to
get him a tattoo machine for Christmas that year. Kyle,
who is one of the worst artists I've ever met,
suggested that somebody should get new ink that night. His
girlfriend then piped up by saying that she would love

(55:24):
to tattoo somebody. I, being drunk, young and dumb, it's
a dangerous combo, decided that I wanted a tattoo.

Speaker 1 (55:33):
Here.

Speaker 2 (55:33):
I present to you my seagulls or penguins, which were
supposed to be cupping ducks. Luckily, this tattoo didn't cost
me anything, but it gets a lot of questions.

Speaker 8 (55:44):
Wow, where's the placement, guys.

Speaker 2 (55:47):
I was describing this beforehand. This is like a very
masculine tattoo to get of cupping ducks that you're about
to shoot in the face in a very feminine spot
like kind of on his hip on the front side,
lower than his name like appendixes.

Speaker 1 (56:06):
Is that about the spot? Sure? Yeah, between the hip
bone and the belly button, leaning towards the hip bone
a little bit.

Speaker 2 (56:12):
Yeah. And he's got four ducks there that are supposed
to be cupping. But as Austin described it, it looks
more like penguins or seagulls.

Speaker 3 (56:22):
I don't think the tat looks that bad, just the placements, don't.

Speaker 6 (56:26):
I mean, there's a lot of negative space that isn't
really working, like the one on the top right especially
looks like a deformed penguin.

Speaker 2 (56:34):
Yeah, it kind of looks like a petroglyph, which you know,
like those people. Those people were taking rocks and carving
things into other rocks, and.

Speaker 1 (56:44):
Close enough that if you didn't know the contacts and
someone just showed you that, you would say, hey, it's bad,
but it's cupping ducks, right, Sure.

Speaker 2 (56:56):
Costume is dignity. Yeah, that's the it's pretty expensive. Kyle
is exactly the kind of person who would get a
tattoo gun from his parents for Christmas. If I were
picking one name, it would be that's totally a Kyle
thing to do.

Speaker 1 (57:14):
The nice thing about his cupping ducks. I think that
he could probably go to another tattoo artist with maybe
some better art skills and fix them up a little bit,
add the feet dropping down, you know, maybe widen him
out a little bit, and maybe add another one to
fill in that negative space that Phil was talking about.

(57:37):
And I actually don't mind the location. I think when
you like hide a tattoo, it's like why did you
get one? When it's in a place where it's hidden.
It's pretty hidden. Well, I don't know if he lives
in a warm place where he's walking around without a
shirt on all the time.

Speaker 3 (57:54):
Plays a lot of shirts and skins basketball.

Speaker 1 (57:57):
It would be worse if he had it like above
his butt crack yah, yeah, on his back.

Speaker 9 (58:02):
Yeah.

Speaker 8 (58:02):
You girls get butterflies and flowers.

Speaker 3 (58:05):
I think if there was a shotgun maybe on the
other side of the hip, Oh sure, with some you know, scatterblasting, or.

Speaker 1 (58:13):
Even better, below the waistline, there'd be a dude coming
up out of a yeah. Yes, this is.

Speaker 2 (58:22):
Free advice for you, Austin. So if you know other
folks out there in.

Speaker 1 (58:27):
The bush, like you would say, yeah, oh no.

Speaker 2 (58:30):
If other people have tattoos, they regret. We're just handing
out wisdom here on how you can make it better.
Yanni had some silver linings and and Corey pointed out
before the show that, uh, Santa Claus isn't carrying around
a lot of tattoo guns on Christmas Eve. So good
good on Kyle for for asking for that that year.

Speaker 9 (58:49):
Yeah, unique gift.

Speaker 7 (58:51):
But there's some funny comments from the audience. There should
be reeds coming up out of the waistline, and Nick says,
get appendus and have the doctors remove the.

Speaker 2 (59:02):
Oh that's good. Keep it and you can see a
picture of this tattoo on YouTube. So if you want
to enjoy looking at Kyle's waistline, which she's not Kyle's
Austin's waistline with us, you can go over to the
meat Eater YouTube channel.

Speaker 9 (59:19):
All right.

Speaker 2 (59:19):
That brings us to the end of the show. Phil,
what do we have from the live chat today?

Speaker 1 (59:24):
Yiannis.

Speaker 6 (59:24):
This guy Troy has asked multiple times if you specifically
are coming to Wisconsin for the whitetail opener on Saturday.

Speaker 1 (59:31):
Yes, sir Troy, we'll fly in there tomorrow with my
oldest daughter. We'll be getting into camp about eight pm
and quickly packing our bags, making lunch and hitting the sack.
And we got a thirty minute walk to our stand.
So yeah, we'll be there right.

Speaker 6 (59:48):
And squirrely, as they say on the internet, username checks out.
Canadian Hunter says listening to trivia is great, but sometimes
as a Canadian it's hard to answer a lot of
the American quot questions. I would love an episode or
two of Canadian focused questions. Is that something you would do?

Speaker 1 (01:00:05):
Spencer?

Speaker 2 (01:00:05):
Canadian Hunter, I recently wrote a question for an episode
will record in a few weeks. That is all about Canada,
so I think you'll get that one right. Another thing
is we have crossword puzzles on our website now and
I did one that was just for Canada, So Canadian
Hunter twenty one, you should go play that Canadian crossword puzzle.
But to answer your question about a Canadian episode, probably

(01:00:30):
not going to happen, but I'll throw you little bones every.

Speaker 16 (01:00:32):
Now and then.

Speaker 6 (01:00:34):
Brent Reeves is bragging about some chili he made and
disappointed that he couldn't enter it into the contest we
had at the office yesterday.

Speaker 2 (01:00:41):
Yeah, we had twelve entries yesterday and our winner was
bree I think we had Logan get second and Tresa
get third. So I came back to defend my title
and it did not happen this year.

Speaker 3 (01:00:55):
Brent on some of your bourbon cornbread with the chili,
it would have been delicious.

Speaker 2 (01:01:02):
That could have won it for him.

Speaker 6 (01:01:04):
Luke is asking Giannis, since you're in the process of
creating deer habitat, what trees would you recommend planting to
balance both longitivity and habitat or longitivity longeitivity of habitat
and timeliness of production within your own life longevity, that longrivity.

Speaker 1 (01:01:20):
Boy, I haven't gotten that far along in my deer
habitat creation process. Man, But if I had I think
just a little bit, I know, and we've certainly talked
a little bit about it is I'd probably just go
with some fruit trees of some sort and probably some
apples and find some apple trees that grow well in

(01:01:43):
my part of Wisconsin.

Speaker 2 (01:01:44):
Yeah, whitetail hunters habitat managers will always talk about plugging
the lowest hole in the bucket that is your property.
So if your property is lacking fruit trees, then that's
probably your answer. If your property is an area that
historically has a horns, but you don't have any there
right now, plant some oak trees look with at whatever
you're lacking. That would be my advice.

Speaker 1 (01:02:05):
Was I saying, longitivity you are?

Speaker 6 (01:02:08):
I didn't even realize I was saying that, Wow, okay,
I think it might just keep also little stick with that,
see how it works.

Speaker 2 (01:02:15):
I wasn't gonna bring it up, Phil.

Speaker 1 (01:02:18):
Please correct me.

Speaker 6 (01:02:18):
I'd rather have someone correct me on the spot than
me look like an idiot for the rest of my life.
Let's seego was asking if we're going to do any
more Meat Eater.

Speaker 1 (01:02:28):
Movie Clubs because it's been a while.

Speaker 2 (01:02:31):
Yeah. Well, next week we will not be live on
Thursday because it's Thanksgiving, but we will still drop an
episode of Meat Eater Radio on Thursday at eleven am
Mountain Time on YouTube, with the podcast coming the next day.
And on that episode there will be the return of
the Meat Eater Movie Club. Randall and the crew will
be reviewing the nineteen ninety seven thriller The Edge, which

(01:02:55):
you can stream on Amazon Prime, so mogor go watch
it before Thursday's episode if you want to join in
on the discussion.

Speaker 6 (01:03:03):
Yeah, and really quick. Unlike the last pre taped episode
we did when we were in Louisiana, we couldn't stream
that one live. Even though this is going to be
pre recorded, we will be streaming it live, so the
live chat will be active. It'll be treated like a
normal show that's happening currently. So I'm going to try
to be in the live chat if i can get
away with it.

Speaker 2 (01:03:22):
So I was going to say, if you don't like
your family, that would be a good place to hang out.

Speaker 1 (01:03:27):
Well, you know, it'll come to your own conclusion.

Speaker 8 (01:03:29):
I'm going to have a very special guest.

Speaker 2 (01:03:32):
Oh, okay, a very special guests.

Speaker 8 (01:03:34):
Yeah, from the human species.

Speaker 2 (01:03:36):
For the Thanksgiving episode. What could it be?

Speaker 1 (01:03:39):
Bart the Bear? Probably a monkey?

Speaker 2 (01:03:42):
Anything else?

Speaker 6 (01:03:42):
Fell Uh, you know what, I kind of use that
as sort of a way to transition to the outro here.

Speaker 2 (01:03:47):
So also, you know, Black Friday is happening right now
at Meat Eater. It goes through December second, it's our
biggest sale of the year at First Light, FHF. Phelps,
Dave Smith, Decoy's Meat Eater. And and this is new
for this year, there's a photo contest starting on Monday,
November twenty fifth, where people can submit their favorite hunting

(01:04:09):
photos for a chance to win a bunch of sweet gear.
So Black Friday sales happening right now.

Speaker 1 (01:04:15):
Go over to I think that's very shirt I'm wearing
right now? Is half off?

Speaker 2 (01:04:20):
Half off?

Speaker 1 (01:04:21):
Is that right, Corey?

Speaker 3 (01:04:23):
I believe so it's a discount, But yeah, I believe
you're right.

Speaker 2 (01:04:26):
And he got a real compliment from that before we
even knew it was it was half off.

Speaker 3 (01:04:31):
It's a slick shirt.

Speaker 2 (01:04:32):
Slick shirts for sale right now for Black Friday. Anything
else today, I.

Speaker 6 (01:04:38):
Don't know, No, you want to talk about anything else,
you guess feeling.

Speaker 3 (01:04:42):
Big football game in Montana this Saturday. Cat Grizz Go Grizz,
right everybody.

Speaker 2 (01:04:47):
Oh no, I'm a Cats fan.

Speaker 3 (01:04:48):
Yeah yeah, I'm from Western Montana. So m hmm, grizz
or die baby.

Speaker 1 (01:04:52):
I'll be there.

Speaker 2 (01:04:53):
I'll be there first, drow. I'm gonna storm the field
when we win.

Speaker 1 (01:04:56):
Again, are for every game?

Speaker 2 (01:04:59):
Every game I'm there, they win, they storm in the field. Well,
I don't start storming of the field, right, It's like
the student section that floods out there. And then I'm like, yeah,
I'll get in on that. So are you too old
for that, Spencer?

Speaker 3 (01:05:10):
No, no, no, no, wonder if you'll be tearing down
the goal post and taken downtown.

Speaker 2 (01:05:14):
I've been to three games. Would they storm in the field?
I think too? Brawl of the wilds and did they
beat SDSU in the playoffs a few years ago? It's
fun time.

Speaker 1 (01:05:24):
Yeah. I've never been that into the college football thing.
But when we were in for the live tour, we
were in Penn State at in State College. I interviewed
a couple folks and I really got to experience just
the level of fandom and the passion there. One kid

(01:05:44):
told me. He's like, we're gonna win, and when we win,
we're gonna storm the field. Then we're gonna pull down
the goal post, and then we're gonna carry that goal
post downtown.

Speaker 2 (01:05:54):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:05:55):
I'm like, man, I love the passion.

Speaker 2 (01:05:58):
That's what's fun about college football. Best fan in the country.

Speaker 3 (01:06:00):
What happened at that football game?

Speaker 1 (01:06:03):
Ohio State beat them? Yeah, I was born, but it
was so fun to see fun game.

Speaker 3 (01:06:08):
Well, Montana, we don't have a professional team, of course,
so this college football brawl of the wild is as
big as it gets.

Speaker 9 (01:06:14):
Yah.

Speaker 2 (01:06:15):
I'll see you there on Saturday, Corey.

Speaker 3 (01:06:16):
Good day to go hunting too, because a lot of
people be watching the football game.

Speaker 1 (01:06:19):
You boys have fun, all right.

Speaker 2 (01:06:21):
That brings this to the end of today's show. We'll
see you back here in the same time and place
in a week.

Speaker 8 (01:06:26):
Watch Mediata rough cuts.

Speaker 14 (01:06:27):
Bye.