May 24, 2024 • 49 mins
On this episode of The Middle we're asking you: what does Memorial Day mean to you? We're joined by David Shulkin, a former Secretary of Veteran's Affairs, and Vickie Castro, a Gold Star Mother whose son was killed during the Iraq War. The Middle's house DJ Tolliver joins as well, plus callers from around the country #MemorialDay #Veterans #Military
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
The Middle is supported by Journalism Funding Partners, a nonprofit
organization striving to increase the sustainability of local journalism by
building connections between donors and news organizations. More information on
how you can support the Middle at Listen to the
Middle dot com. Welcome to the Middle. I'm Jeremy Hobson,
(00:21):
joined as always by our house DJ Tolliver and Tulliver.
You have been moonlighting as one of the top on
one of the top shows on TV right now, Abbottle Adventure.
Your song Bouya Bass was in the season finale this week.
Speaker 2 (00:34):
Yeah, man, and you know what, I don't have telligence
out of Stay up till two am to watch in
all Hulu, but it was so worth it. My mom's excited.
Speaker 1 (00:40):
You know that is awesome. You don't have a television okay,
fact we learned about Dolliver. Well, anybody who wants to
see you do that live can come to our live
show in Waterbury, Connecticut on June third. Ticket info at
Listen to the dot com. So a lot of people
are spending this weekend barbecuing, getting together with family and friends,
maybe checking out a sale somewhere, or just taking a
day off of work, But for others, Memorial Day is
(01:02):
a very serious observance of Americans who have made the
ultimate sacrifice for the country. There have been more than
one point three million American casualties of war in the
history of the United States, including more than seven thousand
since the beginning of the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan.
So what resonance does that sacrifice have with you, whether
(01:23):
you have lost a loved one or not, What does
Memorial Day mean to you? That is our question this
hour Tolliver. How can people reach us?
Speaker 2 (01:30):
You can call us at eight four four four Middle
that's eight four four four six four three three five three,
or write to us at listen to the Middle dot com.
Speaker 1 (01:37):
And before we introduce our panel, last week we asked
what would restore your trust in the media. We heard
a lot of opinions and some suggestions. Listen to some
of the voicemails that came in.
Speaker 3 (01:47):
This is Shelley calling from Prairie Village, Kansas.
Speaker 4 (01:50):
Name is Timmy Telliol Kocher from Milwaukee, Wisconsin.
Speaker 5 (01:54):
My name is Ewen and I'm calling from Chicago, Illinois.
Speaker 4 (01:57):
This is Lania and Nashville. One way of getting people
to trust things more is some sort of funded, bipartisan
or a multifaceted organization that sort of gave ratings or
a grade to any kind of outlet. Maybe over time
it could be something that people trust.
Speaker 3 (02:12):
One of the concerns I have particularly about in tar
is they use words that give the impression of a
feeling against a person or concept that makes you not
want to trust what you're listening to.
Speaker 2 (02:27):
If media just went into just giving the facts to educate,
that would make me trust whatever media outlets a lot more.
Speaker 5 (02:36):
I think the reason people don't trust the media anymore
than for one primary reason politics. Most people just believe
what they hear.
Speaker 1 (02:45):
Well, thanks to everyone who called in. So now to
our topic. This hour Memorial Day. It was first observed
after the Civil War and became a federal holiday in
nineteen seventy one. So what does it mean to you?
And do you think about Americans who have made the
ultimate sacrific for the country. Let's meet our panel. David
Shilkin is a former Secretary of Veterans Affairs under former
(03:06):
President Trump, and prior to that, he was Under Secretary
of Veterans Affairs under former President Obama. Secretary Shelkin welcome
to the Middle.
Speaker 6 (03:13):
Glad to be here today and.
Speaker 1 (03:15):
Also joining us Vicky Castro, a past national officer with
American Gold Star Mothers. Her son Jonathan died in the
Iraq War in two thousand and four. Vicky, great to
have you on the Middle and our condolences to you
on this memorial day.
Speaker 7 (03:29):
Thank you. Good to be here.
Speaker 8 (03:31):
Well.
Speaker 1 (03:31):
Your son, as we said, was killed in two thousand
and four, was by a suicide bomber, along with twenty
one others. What memory comes to mind first of him
twenty years later?
Speaker 7 (03:41):
Now, oh, yesterday would have been his forty first birthday.
It's been twenty years and I still miss hims and
grief for him every minute of every day. But it
(04:05):
depends you know that question. You can ask me that
question at any given time and it'll always be something different.
But with you saying reminding me of how he was killed.
He was killed by a suicide bomber. I remember our
last conversation he had called from home. He called home
from Iraq eighteen hours before he was killed, and I
(04:27):
remember the very last thing he said to me, and
that was, Mom, Remember, I have absolutely no intention of
dying in a foreign country.
Speaker 1 (04:39):
Wow. Secretary Schulkin, as you hear that, and I'm sure
you've heard stories like that from military families, from veterans.
Do you think that most Americans have an understanding of
that pain, that sacrifice that Vicky Castro is bringing up there.
Speaker 6 (05:01):
Well, I don't think so, Jeremy. And the reason I
say that is because I know that before I was
asked to come to Washington by President Obama at the time,
I had a pretty active life as a CEO of
a large hospital system and very active social life, and
(05:25):
I have to say that in my social circles, I'm
not even sure that I knew people who had children
in the military. And I soon began to realize when
I got into the role in the Department of Teran Affairs,
that it was less than one percent of our sons
(05:47):
and daughters that serve in our military, and that you
often will see that it's multiple members of a family.
It's often a son and a daughter or a nephew
and a niece, and the families and the communities and
the military communities are tight and they know each other
and they're ingrained in their social networks, and so you
(06:09):
begin to start having people that have a lot of
contact with people like Vicky and you know her network,
and then you have other social networks that have no contact,
and that sort of brings this lack of understanding of
how the sacrifice falls on a really disproportionate percentage of
(06:33):
American families. And to me as secretary, my greatest honor
was to spend time with those families and hear about
how they've not only continue to serve the country in
the ways that they do, but the amazing stories and
sacrifices and memories that they have of those who have served.
Speaker 1 (06:57):
Vicky, as we said, you work with the Group of
America and Gold Star Mothers. What do you what does
your network say or what do people who haven't lost
loved ones in war do you think need to understand
about the experience of you and the others in that group.
Speaker 7 (07:13):
Oh my goodness, I don't. I don't know that I
want anybody to be able to well, maybe understand, but
I don't want anybody to fill to live what we live.
Speaker 9 (07:28):
Right.
Speaker 7 (07:29):
Our membership requirement is that you have lost a loved
one in the line of service. And what our group
does and what we are is we're support to each
other and we are mothers that have come to the
realization that by our grieving process is helped by volunteerism,
(07:50):
and most of our volunteer acts go towards military families
via the VA, the USO. I mean, there's so many
the dav any of those groups we volunteer and work
with our military families and that helps us through our
grieving process.
Speaker 1 (08:10):
Yeah, let's get to the phones and Mario, who's in
Oak Park, Illinois. Mario, welcome to the middle. What do
you think? What does memorial they mean to you?
Speaker 10 (08:20):
Memorial Day? What it means to me is I think
of my seven friends that got killed with me when
I was with them, we were together out there in Iraq.
They were shot down with a heat seeking missile and boy,
I tell you that was a bad day. And you
know what makes it even worse, They got shot down.
(08:40):
The Marines who went out there to go rescue them
got blown up. I think three or four of them died.
Speaker 8 (08:45):
It was a bad day.
Speaker 10 (08:46):
So that's what it means to me. That's what it
means to me. My Yeah, my seven comrades, and two
of them it was their first mission, and five of
them it was their last. Asked and we always Yeah,
we would always talk about it. Hey, you want to
go on your last one? I said, I hope this
was my last one, you know, And that's what it
(09:07):
means to me. It's uh, it's painful, it's it's painful.
But I caught my blessings, you know, I caught my blessings.
And I have white shoe polish, and and throughout my
window of my van, I put you know, I try
to fit their names or I try to put a
reference to where someone can look it up as to
you know, these specific specific seven you know, written to die. Yeah,
(09:33):
that's what it means to me.
Speaker 1 (09:34):
Hey, Mario, let me ask you. You know, first of all,
thank you for your service. But since you've come back,
do you feel like you've been treated well by your
fellow citizens or well enough by your fellow citizens?
Speaker 10 (09:46):
I am glad you asked me that. Let me tell
you right now, the VA system is incredible. Incredible. If
any anyone who ever talks bad or questions the VA system,
I always say, wait a minute, because I'm there often,
you know, with the hearing and the asthma and stuff
like that. Incredible. And as soon as I walk in
(10:08):
anything I need give me your last four of your
social good to go anything, I mean anything you could
want housing, rehab, anything, anything, or if you're sick. Yeah,
it's been great coming back. Everybody else, everybody else is
cool too. Yeah, they're you know, they're nice to us.
They're nice to us.
Speaker 1 (10:25):
Yeah, Mario, thank you so much for your for your call.
And David Schulkin. I didn't know whether he was going
to say what he was going to say about the
VA there, but he had nice words for the VA.
Speaker 6 (10:36):
Yeah. Well, look, the VA cares for, you know, more
than ten million people like Mario, and not everybody is
going to have Mario's experience. But to me, getting out
and talking to veterans like Mario and hearing about how
important the VA is to them and the support that
(10:57):
they get from the VA is really what motivated me
to fight to make this a better system and to
make sure that it wasn't privatized, it didn't get into
that partisan politics that Washington so often does, that the
VA can't really become a political entity.
Speaker 1 (11:17):
We're going to get to that later on again. Our
number is eight four four Middle that's eight four four
four six four three three five three Tolliver as we said,
Americans have been observing Memorial Day officially since just after
the Civil War. It used to be called Decoration Day.
Speaker 2 (11:30):
Yeah, and about half of all Americans who have died
in war died fighting the Civil War. Then Vice President
Lyndon Johnson spoke on Memorial Day in nineteen sixty three
from Gettysburg, Pennsylvania, one hundred years after the Battle of Gettysburg.
Speaker 11 (11:42):
We honor them now as we join on this Memorial
Day of nineteen sixty three in a prayer for permanent
peace in the world and the fulfillment of our hopes
for our universal freedom and justice.
Speaker 1 (11:59):
It was really interesting in finding that audio Tolliver to
think that nineteen sixty three was exactly one hundred years
after the Battle of Gettysburg, which was in eighteen sixty three.
It's just it reminds you how recent the Civil War
really was. I think we think of it as like way, way,
way long ago. But yeah, actually, like you know, for them,
it was that was one hundred years. So anyway, we
(12:22):
back with more calls in a minute. On the middle.
This is the Middle. I'm Jeremy Hobson. If you're just
tuning in the middle is a national call in show.
We're focused on elevating voices from the middle geographically, politically,
and philosophically, or maybe you just want to meet in
the middle. This hour, we're asking you what does Memorial
Day mean to you? Tolliver, what's the number to call in?
Speaker 2 (12:42):
It's eight four four four Middle. That's eight four four
four six four three three five three. You can also
write to us that listen to the Middle dot com
or on social media.
Speaker 1 (12:49):
I'm joined by former Secretary of Veterans Affairs David Schulkin
and gold Star mother Vicki Castro, who lost her son
in the Iraq War. Before we get back to the phones,
Secretary Schulkin, I suppose one of the most import reasons
for someone to actually think about those who died in
war on Memorial Day is so that they fully consider
the cost of war when the US considers getting involved
(13:09):
in a war.
Speaker 6 (13:12):
Yeah, yeah, I think that's right. I mean, to me,
Memorial Day is about recognizing and remembering the sacrifices. But
along with that, Jeremy, comes exactly what you said, And
too often the decision to go to war is not
considered with the full costs because those costs often take
(13:33):
decades to show up and seeing that right now the
largest number of veterans that the VA cares for are
actually Vietnam veterans who are now average age of seventy
eight years old. But the VA has responsibility for them
until the very end, and then of course even making
(13:54):
sure that they're buried with a proper ceremony and dignity.
Speaker 1 (13:59):
The VA maintain.
Speaker 6 (14:00):
International cemeteries throughout the country for that purpose.
Speaker 1 (14:03):
Vicky Castro, after your son died, you actually demonstrated against
the Iraq war. What do you what do you think
about war these days? Do you do you find that
there are times when it is justified?
Speaker 7 (14:17):
I've you know, it's hard, you know, looking at history,
you know, because I studied history and some of the
things you know, during the war and especially during the
Holocaust and everything to step in. I wouldn't say that
that was wrong. But that being said, or the most part,
(14:37):
nobody wins a war, just somebody loses less or I
don't know, you know, how you score a win. I
don't think the war is the answer. For the most part,
war is just the result of failing to communicate in
a way that you can, you know, get along. I
(14:59):
don't know how gun solve the answer. It's not going
to get us to an answer at gunpoint.
Speaker 1 (15:07):
Let's go to Thomas, who is joining us from Baker, Louisiana. Thomas,
welcome to the middle, Go ahead.
Speaker 9 (15:15):
Hi, thanks for having me. I've been thinking about the
question for the best couple of hours, and my first
thought is the answer to was the Memorial Day to mean?
To me? And bluntly, as a retail employee, it basically
means that my store closes to and a half hours early.
Speaker 5 (15:37):
Um.
Speaker 9 (15:37):
Fortunate enough, I don't have any killed in action family
members or friends or anything like that. But thanking on
my answer there, it had me think of another point,
and that's how unusual it is that this country, generally speaking,
has a culture where we really care for our military
(16:01):
personnel and also being respectful to the dead. And given
this that a lot of businesses just use it as
a day to start selling off a bunch of meaningless
stuff that is like, hey, come get our crap for
seventy five percent off. I can understand that being disrespectful
(16:26):
to people that have lost someone.
Speaker 1 (16:30):
Yeah, Thomas, thank you for that call. Vicky castro let
me ask you, you know, do you find. Do you
feel disrespected at all when you see Memorial Day sales?
Speaker 7 (16:41):
Yes, especially that you know all of the banners. It's
like it's like a big celebration, as if this is
supposed to be a day of celebration, which is not.
It's a day of observance to remember and to acknowledge
the sacrifices that are being made in your name, whether
you're aware of it or not. These sacrific devices are
made now. It would help a little bit if all
(17:03):
of these stores that had all these big sales would
allocate their income from the day to veterans services in
some capacity, donated to Fisher House or the dav or
any of those things as part of their hoop law
for the day. But it just, yeah, most of it
(17:25):
is just so celebratory, is the thing. So I'm not
really keen on that.
Speaker 1 (17:31):
Yeah. Edie is with us from Westchester, Pennsylvania. Edie, welcome
to the middle, go ahead.
Speaker 12 (17:38):
Thank you. Vicky Castro. I am so sorry. I thank
you for having an amazing son who was willing to
go and to send my freedom and my right to
enjoy my afternoon and my cho I'm so sorry, And
(18:03):
I really think that Memorial Day is supposed to be
a day of remembrance, and I totally agree with these
crazy sales, and you know, it's become like project first
day of Summer, and I just find it very distasteful
and dishonorable for our veterans. And I'm the mother of
(18:28):
a marine. It's the mother in law of a marine.
So I have so much respect for these people because
without them, we could not have our day to day
joys of getting our car, going to the grocery store,
you know, going to work. And again, Missus Castro, I'm
(18:49):
so sorry, and you are. You know, I'm cognizant of
these losses and I just wish people would be more
aware of it. And absolutely what I agree with Missus
Castro too. Anybody who's open on Memorial Day, those proceeds
should be going to our veterans.
Speaker 1 (19:07):
Edie, thank you so much for that call. Vicky Castro,
I don't know if you want to respond there to Edie.
Speaker 7 (19:14):
You know, yeah, I appreciate when when people acknowledge my
son's sacrifice and my family's loss. He was my only child,
and it built a big hole in my life and
it does you know, it's a bomb to know that
(19:35):
people acknowledge and remember, because if if his life isn't remembered,
then oh my goodness, that's what hurts.
Speaker 1 (19:46):
You know. One of the things David Schulkin that we
heard from Edie there was about, you know, somebody sacrificing
for our freedom in this country. And there are now
wars that the US has fought that as you look
back on them twenty twenty hindsight, many people would say
that war was not about our freedom. Let's talk about
(20:07):
Vietnam for a second. You know, you could make the
case that this is you know, communism versus capitalism, or
these big things are going on in the world. But
many people would look at Vietnam and say that was
a war that we didn't need to get involved in
the United States. How does that affect, you know, how
military veterans are treated and how we think about those
(20:28):
who've died in war.
Speaker 6 (20:31):
Well, it's a good question, I think as you speak
to our Vietnam veterans, in particular, because of the domestic
controversy over that exact issue, Jeremy, when our Vietnam veterans
got back, they were not welcomed as heroes. Many people
remember when Vietnam veterans actually stepped off the planes and
(20:54):
onto American soil for the first time. Some of them
were spad upon and others were booed, and that went
with them for a long time. A lot of Vietnam
veterans to this day still don't trust the government because
of the way that they were treated. Now, I think,
as we heard earlier from Mario, fortunately in our more
recent conflicts, our veterans and our military come back to
(21:18):
a heroes welcome. But you have to understand every conflict
has to be interpreted in the context of the political
situation in the country. And yet everyone who raises their
hand and puts their life at risk is serving their
country and listening to the commander in chief, and they
(21:39):
really should not be exposed to these types of political divisions.
And so I think that's part of our commitment that
we need to make, which is not to judge those
who are really just serving the country and treat them
with the respect.
Speaker 1 (21:55):
Yeah, let's go to Joseph who's in high Sorry, yeah,
Joseph who is in high Ridge, Missouri. Joseph, welcome to.
Speaker 13 (22:02):
The middle go ahead, Hi, thanks for taking my call home.
A Memorial Day we all need to reflect on the
people who fight and die and put their lives on
the line on behalf of all the rest of us,
whether they're conscripted or especially the ones who volunteer and
(22:24):
choose to do that. But unfortunately, on you know, I mean,
I think about I had classmates, someone who died in
my rack, my uncle died in Vietnam. I had a
great uncle who died in the World War Two, And unfortunately,
you know, when I talk to friends who are veterans
(22:45):
and my grandfather in World War Two, especially what I
think of a memorial Day, part of it is the great,
profound sense of betrayal of our political leadership to our
veterans and the people they asked it to die. On
all the rest of it, therapy have to keep them
in power. I mean, the lives surrounding Iraq and Vietnam,
(23:05):
or my grandfather, especially by the end of his life,
he said he wouldn't have thought if he could see
what what had happened, the primrose path, that we had
been let down with the inversion of the morality he
grew up with at the ka of our cities, the
mass immigration swamping his working class friends. I mean he
had his British tensioner friends who were in London, and
(23:26):
they thought so that they wouldn't be speaking German and
by the end of their lives that native British were
a minority in London, and that there was a book
The Unknown Soldiers by Nicholas Kringle about a decade ago
where he solicited thoughts on the direction their country had
gone and the UK and almost to him that are
(23:48):
happy with modern convenience as yeah, and women.
Speaker 1 (23:53):
So Joseph, Joseph, I think we we've got it there,
that that basically not happy with the politics here at home.
I thank you for that call, and I want to
go to Wade, who is in South Holland, Illinois. Wade,
welcome to the middle go ahead.
Speaker 8 (24:07):
Ahi, thanks for taking my call. First, I just want
to give my condolences to your guest and all others
of course who've lost their sons and daughters. But yeah,
to me, Memorial Day is of course about remembering those
that have you know, died in the service of the country.
(24:28):
And but they get a lot of aggravation, you know,
besides all the commercialism and being more about first day
of summer, but about how so many people want to
give well wishes and thanks to services to the veterans,
and you ask any veterans, especially combat veteran, and it
is not their holiday, you know. I remember my uncle
(24:51):
who served in Vietnam, told his story once about how
some moments said oh, happy Memorial Day, blah blah blah,
and you know, and he needs very roughly told her,
not my holiday. Hmm. You know, no, no, no thanks anyway,
no thought, nothing, just not my holiday. And you just
know he was thinking of I don't know how many
(25:15):
of his fellow soldiers that he watched die in Coochie.
Speaker 1 (25:21):
So, yeah, Wade, thank you for that.
Speaker 8 (25:24):
That's something I think about.
Speaker 1 (25:25):
Yeah, thank you. I appreciate that call at Vicky Castro,
your thoughts not my holiday.
Speaker 7 (25:31):
Yeah, it's very true. I know. I've I've been to
d C frequently for rolling Thunder. They don't do it.
They have another thing now. But and a lot of
times I would see people, you know, always thank you,
thank you for your service, thank you for your service,
and I would let them know and and a lot
of times the veterans would let them know, this isn't
(25:53):
my day, This isn't my day. You know, we have veterans,
and as far as I'm concerned, you know, thanks a
veteran for their service three hundred and sixty four days
a year. Just not memorials.
Speaker 1 (26:04):
Just not memorials. There, Tolliver, I know a lot of
comments are coming in online.
Speaker 2 (26:09):
Yeah, we got a ton of them. Dennison, Connecticut writes
Memorial Days the Times. Remember your neighbor when you were
growing up who never said a word about his military
experiences until you find out as a seventeen year old
he was in the D Day Invasion and through to
the Battle of the Bulge in the European theater. Alex
and Massachusetts rights for gold Star families. Every day is
Memorial Day. I've had the honor of interacting with several
who have lost loved ones in battle. They try to
(26:31):
keep their memories alive and ways big and small. They
visit their graves, They start foundations that awards scholarships. They
tell stories about those sons and daughters, brothers and sisters,
husbands or wives, fathers and mothers. Take a minute to
think about their sacrifice on Monday.
Speaker 1 (26:45):
Yeah great, and you can write to us. By the way,
listen to the Middle dot com. You can also call
US at eight four four four Middle That is eight
four four four six four three three five three. Cliff
is in New Orleans, High Cliff, Welcome to the Middle.
Speaker 11 (26:59):
Hi there.
Speaker 14 (27:01):
What Memorial Day means for me growing up? My father
was a World War Two combat vet and he served
in the Italian theater. He also served in Anzio. Anyway,
he said he was one soon after they landed at Anzio,
(27:22):
they were just taking a break, a lunch break, and
there's a small little stream and he just wanted to
be by himself and just eat his lunch by himself.
And more of his buddies were on the other side
of the small stream, and right in the middle of
that of their eating, a German eighty eight shell came
in and took all four of them out. Wow, And
(27:43):
he you know, he wasn't that far away, but he
was unscathed. And he just wanted to say that that's
what what war was like. And he said, that's what
it was like when you fight for your country. And
he just wanted to infer what wars like, the horrors
(28:04):
of war as well as what it was like to
fight for America and what it stood for. And you know,
we could evolve from there and think.
Speaker 1 (28:14):
But request you know, we've heard from so many people
that have been talking about military families. Your dad was
in World War Two? Did you join the armed forces?
Speaker 8 (28:25):
I did not.
Speaker 1 (28:27):
What was that a choice that you made? Like, did
you think about doing it and decide not to?
Speaker 14 (28:34):
I wasn't thinking of if we're going to go on politics.
I wasn't thinking about that. When I was of age,
there was a thing called Vietnam, right and my dad
I wasn't thinking. Really, I wasn't thinking about going there.
My dad did not think that that was a quote
(28:55):
unquote just war, and he I will help you. But
I had no idea about amnesty or any of that
kind of thing. At the end of the day, my
number was like two twelve and I never and I
was in college so I never did find that, so
it never became a reality. But no, my dad was
not a military family. I mean, you know, yeah, military, you.
Speaker 1 (29:18):
Weren't in the military. Cliff, thank you so much for that.
And I've seen that We've got an email in it.
Listen to the middle dot com Memorial Day. This is
from Amy Memorial Days for those who died in service
to our country and those who passed from their service,
i e. Suicide. As my brother, Corporal Biro would say
every year Veterans Days for those still among the living.
(29:39):
Since his passing from suicide, I've met other siblings who
are now trying to live without their brother or sister.
Siblings are often called the silent, overlooked grievers. We're going
to get to that in a moment. At Tolliver, as
we've been hearing, Memorial Day is a very serious important day,
but there are also a lot of.
Speaker 2 (29:55):
Sales there are, Yeah, well not sure. Let me check
real quick.
Speaker 7 (30:00):
Highlights your Memorial Day weekend with a special cookout and
stock up on everything you need.
Speaker 12 (30:04):
At wind Dixie it's.
Speaker 1 (30:06):
Mattress Discounters Memorial Day triple bonus sale.
Speaker 9 (30:09):
All our mattress sets are on sale.
Speaker 4 (30:12):
We get to Waterbed Gallery superstores Sunday Monday Memorial Day sale.
Speaker 8 (30:15):
We really cut prices to the bone during this once
a year event.
Speaker 15 (30:19):
Waterer Bank started only seventy nine dollars.
Speaker 1 (30:22):
Waterbeds remember those? Actually, you know what, Telliver, my parents
had a waterbed.
Speaker 2 (30:26):
Okay, you know what. I've been apartment hunting and they
all say no water beds. And he has a waterbed because.
Speaker 1 (30:31):
It starts leaking. That's what happens. It starts leaking. Okay,
we'll be back with more in a minute. On the Middle.
This is the Middle. I'm Jeremy Hobson. We're asking you
this hour what does Memorial Day mean to you? You
can call us at eight four four four Middle. That's
eight four four four six four three three five three,
or you can reach out at listen to the Middle
dot com. I'm joined by former Secretary of Veterans Affairs
(30:53):
David Schulkin and gold Star mother Vicki Castro. Before we
get back to the phones, David Chulkin, we heard just
a moment ago that email about suicide. I mentioned earlier
that about seven thousand Americans have died or did die
in the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, but more than
thirty thousand have died in that time period since nine
(31:14):
to eleven from suicide, service members dying after they come
back from suicide. How do you remember those people in
the context of Memorial Day.
Speaker 6 (31:25):
Well, I think you've said it correctly that, as we
discussed before, that the war doesn't end, or the conflict
doesn't end when people come back home and in fact,
we're seeing many more people taking their own life than
losing it on the battlefield. And that's why the number
(31:45):
one priority for the Department of Veteran Affairs is to
help prevent veteran suicide. And even with all the efforts
that are extended there and there are some really important programs,
last year, suicide in this country among veterans went up
eleven point six percent. So this is a national crisis.
(32:06):
It is one that we do not have under control.
We need to do a lot more. There are a
lot of people out there who need help, and we're
going to need to continue to work at this for
quite some time.
Speaker 1 (32:20):
Vicky Castro, as you know, Secretary of Sulkin, served in
both the Trump and Obama administration. Do you find that
the VA or the way that we think about veterans
is a political or does it feel political? It changes
based on the administration.
Speaker 7 (32:40):
That depends on what level. The military itself is supposed
to be a political. But you go on to any
military base and into their mess halls and whatever, and
a lot of them don't turn the news off of
Fox News, and you know how political is that. So
(33:04):
I do find that there are politics involved Ideally there
wouldn't be, but it is. It seeps through. I think
a lot of people in position in the VA try
try to make it not be about politics, but so
much of the funding for the VA is tied up
(33:25):
in politics. Every year they passed the Packed Act, but
then now they're trying to chip away at it. So yeah,
you know, because the politics hold the purse strings. So
unfortunately it is Secretary Sholk.
Speaker 1 (33:40):
What do you think about that?
Speaker 6 (33:43):
I think Vicky has an amazingly objective insight into this.
You know, I went into this without any allegiance to
a political party. I was confirmed one hundred to zero
two times by the US Senate. In fact, the ask
cabinet member ever to get one hundred to zero. And
I will say all I did as secretaries deal with politics.
(34:07):
I tried very hard to shield the department from it.
I tried very hard to make sure that I was
making the right decisions that I felt for those that served.
But all around me was a swirl of politics, and
I made it very, very challenging. So I think Vicky's
comments are exactly on target.
Speaker 1 (34:26):
Let's go to the phones in Janice, who's in Fort Collins, Colorado,
Janis welcome to the middle.
Speaker 15 (34:31):
Go ahead, thank you.
Speaker 16 (34:33):
Can you hear me?
Speaker 1 (34:34):
I can hear you?
Speaker 16 (34:35):
Fine, go ahead, okay.
Speaker 15 (34:38):
All right.
Speaker 16 (34:39):
I absolutely love and respect and appreciate all those who
have given their lives in service to our country. My
concern is that many have given their lives in wars
that were, not, in my opinion, necessary, And I've been
listening others have referenced Vietnam. I certainly will say Iraq.
(35:05):
My father served in World War Two, my brother served
in Vietnam. I visited Normandy and felt immense appreciation and
respect for those who were buried there. But we need
to honor our military and our fallen by not getting
into wars that are not necessary.
Speaker 1 (35:29):
Jennis, thank you, and let me take that to Vicky Castro.
You came back. You know, I've seen videos of you
speaking at anti Iraq war rallies, so you obviously feel
similarly there.
Speaker 7 (35:45):
Well, especially especially Iraq. I know that. Even my son,
you know, he told me, he says, Mom, don't worry,
we're not going into Iraq. And I'm like, son, I
hear those war drums and he says, no, Mom, We're
not going into Iraqi. Because the three reasons he says,
Number One, fine, Saddam Hussein's a bad guy, but he's
(36:06):
our bad guy, and if we take him out, what
comes to power may be worse than what is there.
Number Two, that we have them contained in Iraq, we
don't need to go in there. And number three, it's
about Afghanistan, and that would take the eyes off of Afghanistan.
So when we went into Iraq, he was very frustrated.
Of course I was very frustrated too. I didn't think
(36:30):
we belonged in Iraq. Everything that brought us into Iraq
was a lie. Everything that kept us in Iraq was
a lie. And how many thousands of our bravest and
brightest lost their lives in the sands of Iraq.
Speaker 1 (36:44):
So how do you think about your son's heroism? And
I know that you've talked about what exactly happened there
with him and the more than twenty others who died
in that attack, his heroism in a war that you
believe was and that many Americans believe was not worth
fighting in the first place.
Speaker 7 (37:03):
Because he was a soldier. First. He was a soldier
and he was going to follow orders and do the mission.
But here's the thing. People have to understand. His mission
was to keep himself and his battle buddies alive, period,
no politics, know anything, just stay alive, keep my battle
(37:23):
buddies alive. And that's what he was and that's what
he was trained to do.
Speaker 1 (37:28):
Let's go to Michael, who is in Arlington, Massachusetts. Michael,
welcome to the middle.
Speaker 15 (37:33):
Go ahead, Hi, Hi, Well, I'm commander of the local
VSW here and what Memorial Day. One of the things
we do in preparation for Memorial Day last weekend and
the weekend before lash, we and some wonderful volunteers, including
kids from the local high school, we put flags in
(37:56):
at every single grave at the big out Pleasant Cemetery,
which is a very old cemetery going back to colonial
times that's in the middle of Arlington, and it was
a huge effort and we went and double checked and
we found that they didn't miss a grave and there
(38:18):
were hundreds and hundreds of graves to put flags on.
So it was just a great thing.
Speaker 1 (38:25):
Really, that's that's wonderful. That's it's really moving actually to
see the pictures of people like you putting the flags
on the graves on Memorial Day.
Speaker 15 (38:36):
Well, once forget, I'm a vet. So it's it's like,
you know, I'm saluting my own but the fact is
so many people that are not veterans volunteers and did it.
And I remember one guy said to me at the end,
he was dropping me off that cafe Nero. For my
reward for being so good, I was going to have
(38:58):
pay three of coffee, and as he shook my hand,
he said, you know, I went there as a duty
because I'm an American citizen. But we finished up, I
suddenly realized what a pleasure it has been. And that's
(39:18):
the generosity of spirit I met time at a time
again last time.
Speaker 1 (39:24):
Well, thank you so much Michael for calling in. Really
appreciate that, and good luck this weekend. Let's get to
another one, Karen, who is in Cherokee, North Carolina. Karen,
welcome to the Middle.
Speaker 17 (39:37):
Yes, my grandfather was in World War One and my
father was in Hawaii when it was bombed by the Japanese.
He was seventeen years old when he went to war,
and they both came home scarred. I'm sure it was
very difficult for them in their private lives when they
came home to get used to civilian life again. But
(39:57):
also the people who lose the You can give nothing
more valuable than your life for this country, and it's
given for us to live in freedom. I've been in
a communist country. I know the difference, and this is
a beautiful country and I hate the idea that we
had a president who had no respect for our dead
or are wounded. Those are the most precious people we have.
(40:21):
They gave everything they had.
Speaker 1 (40:24):
Karen, thank you so much for that call. David Shelkin.
It's just amazing to hear from so many people who
have these personal connections. Obviously, there are so many Americans
out there like VICKI and people who are serving the
armed forces, who are veterans of the armed forces, but
you don't necessarily run into them and talk to them
in everyday life all over the place. And it's so
(40:45):
nice to hear from so many today.
Speaker 6 (40:49):
I think that's true. And one of the things that's
come up a couple times during our time together is
that wherever I go and I often will see people
responding to emergencies like hurricanes and you know, natural disasters.
You see people helping other people. It often turns out
those are veterans. You know, our veterans volunteer for things
(41:13):
more than others in the community. They vote more than others.
These are people who really believe in our country and
want to make it a better place. And I'm so
grateful every time I meet a family like Vicki's and
others around the country.
Speaker 1 (41:31):
Yeah, Vicky, how much of your time do you spend
now this is twenty years later, working with groups like
American gold Star Mothers or with fellow military families and veterans.
Speaker 7 (41:45):
Well, it comes and goes, you know, it depends on
how well my health is holding up and what position
am I on in. When I was on the National Board,
it was a full time job, time job, straight across
the board. Now I've retired from teaching and so I
(42:07):
have more free time, and I'm going to say I've
scaled back a bit, but I do like to still,
you know, stay in touch and do volunteer work at
the USOS and the VA and some of the you know,
we put on little barbecues and stuff for veterans groups.
(42:30):
So time wise, I don't know anymore. Like I said,
I've scaled back a bit, but a lot of that
has to do with health issues than other things.
Speaker 1 (42:38):
Let's go to Kate, who's in Fort Collins, Colorado. Kate,
Welcome to the middle.
Speaker 3 (42:41):
Go ahead, Hi.
Speaker 18 (42:44):
I wanted to comment on what somebody said earlier about
most of our soldiers coming from about one percent of
American families. That was true with my husband's family. His
father served in World War One, of his brother's in
World War Two, a brother in Korea, and then the
(43:04):
youngest two in Vietnam. And they did it out of
a sense of duty, but also because they were drafted,
whereas somebody who was in college or somebody that had
a job that was deemed more important than what they
were doing didn't have to go. And I think most
(43:30):
absoluent families don't even consider their sons going into the military.
And the people in Congress and most of them haven't served,
and it seems like it's only a certain segment of
the population that really does serve this country. And my
(43:50):
husband is still suffering extreme PTSD from what he experienced
as a marine in Vietnam. You know, those people aren't
really celebrated, not a Memorial Day and not on Veterans
Day really, and those are meaningless to my husband. But
(44:12):
I just think it should be more equal.
Speaker 1 (44:16):
Yeah, can it's a great point. I'm so glad you
brought it up, and Secretary of Shelkin, this is something
I wanted to get to, which is that there, you know,
there's a class situation in the military. There are a
lot of Americans who are on the lower income that
that do go and serve. And then you know, as
(44:37):
she said, affluent people maybe don't have that much of
a connection to the wars that we fight in this country.
Speaker 6 (44:44):
I think that's absolutely true. And one of the things
that I believe when you look at the state of
our country right now and the fact that we're probably
more divided than we've been, you know, ever since I
can remember, I believe there should be a now national
year of service that is mandatory for young people. And
(45:06):
one of the reasons I believe that you don't have
to in what I believe a year service would be
be in the military. You could volunteer to help in
all sorts of ways around this country with all of
our social problems. But one of the reasons I believe
that's so important and our way forward is because when
you come together and you're forced to deal with people
(45:27):
who come from different cultures and different socio economic backgrounds
and different geographies of the country. You bond and you
get to listen and learn and become closer to other people,
and that brings us together as a country. So I
think that's a very true statement, and I think we
need to really do something about it.
Speaker 1 (45:48):
Tulliver, what else is coming in online?
Speaker 7 (45:50):
Yeah?
Speaker 16 (45:51):
Sorry?
Speaker 2 (45:52):
John and Rockford writes as Memorial Day approaches, I think
back on the wars this country wage a half century
ago against the peoples of Vietnam, Cambodian Laos country. They're
memorials to the Americans who lost their lives during those conflicts,
But what are the three million innocence murdered in those
countries who were so cruelly ravaged, none of whom have
ever done you or me any other harm. Let's remember
(46:12):
and mourn them all. George Wright, as someone who faced
the draft in the late sixties, I feel terrible for
those who went to fight and those who lost their lives,
given the wrongness of that war, which has become clearer
over time, and the lessons not learned which led to
future wars. I protested that war and knew that going
into Iraq for weapons of mass destruction which did not
exist was wrong. It just goes on and on.
Speaker 1 (46:34):
Yeah again, you can write your elements. Yeah, listen to
the middle dot com Vicky Castro. We're running out of time,
but I do want to give you the last word here.
Any advice to Americans from your point of view as
we remember those who have died in war in this country,
your thoughts.
Speaker 7 (46:54):
Well. I was a school teacher for many years and
I kept a picture of my son there on the wall.
And on Memorial Day, as they were going for their
Memorial weekend, I remind them. I understand that you're excited
because you have an extra day off of school. This
is but I want you to at least focus. I'm
(47:14):
not asking you to spend the weekend morning. That's not
what we're expecting. Just set aside a certain period of
time to think about and remember those who have died
in the line of service and the sacrifices that have
been made because each one of those lives lost had
(47:34):
a family attached to it, and the ripple effect from
each death is significant. And just to take a few minutes,
even if it's just, you know, like a moment of silence,
please and let's remember each and every one of them.
Speaker 1 (47:51):
Well, I want to thank my guests. That was gold
Star Mother, Vicky Castro, thank you so much for joining us,
Thank you. And Secretary of Veterans Affairs under the Trump
administration and before that under the Obama administration, David Shalkin,
thank you so much for being here. Thank you as well,
and Tolliver. Next week we're going to be talking about
(48:11):
a war that the US is involved in but is
not directly fighting, and that would be the war in
Israel in Gaza.
Speaker 2 (48:17):
Yeah, and we've heard so much about the protests in
this country. So we want to know is whether the
US role in the war is something that will affect
your vote this November. You can call us at eight
four four four Middle that's eight four four four six
four three three five three, or write in at listen
to the Middle dot com.
Speaker 1 (48:31):
And while you're there, you can sign up for our
weekly newsletter. The Middle is brought to you by Long
Nook Media, distributed by Illinois Public Media in Urbana, Illinois,
and produced by Joeann Jennings, Harrison Patino, Danny Alexander, and
John Barth. Our intern is Anika Deshler. Our technical director
is Jason croft Or theme music was composed by Andrew Haig.
(48:52):
Thanks also to Nashville Public Radio, iHeartMedia, and the more
than four hundred and ten public radio stations that are
making it possible for people across the country to listen
to the middle. I'm Jeremy Hobson. I'll talk to you
next week.
The Middle is supported by Journalism Funding Partners, a nonprofit
organization striving to increase the sustainability of local journalism by
building connections between donors and news organizations. More information on
how you can support the Middle at Listen to the
Middle dot com. Welcome to the Middle. I'm Jeremy Hobson,
(00:21):
joined as always by our house DJ Tolliver and Tulliver.
You have been moonlighting as one of the top on
one of the top shows on TV right now, Abbottle Adventure.
Your song Bouya Bass was in the season finale this week.
Speaker 2 (00:34):
Yeah, man, and you know what, I don't have telligence
out of Stay up till two am to watch in
all Hulu, but it was so worth it. My mom's excited.
Speaker 1 (00:40):
You know that is awesome. You don't have a television okay,
fact we learned about Dolliver. Well, anybody who wants to
see you do that live can come to our live
show in Waterbury, Connecticut on June third. Ticket info at
Listen to the dot com. So a lot of people
are spending this weekend barbecuing, getting together with family and friends,
maybe checking out a sale somewhere, or just taking a
day off of work, But for others, Memorial Day is
(01:02):
a very serious observance of Americans who have made the
ultimate sacrifice for the country. There have been more than
one point three million American casualties of war in the
history of the United States, including more than seven thousand
since the beginning of the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan.
So what resonance does that sacrifice have with you, whether
(01:23):
you have lost a loved one or not, What does
Memorial Day mean to you? That is our question this
hour Tolliver. How can people reach us?
Speaker 2 (01:30):
You can call us at eight four four four Middle
that's eight four four four six four three three five three,
or write to us at listen to the Middle dot com.
Speaker 1 (01:37):
And before we introduce our panel, last week we asked
what would restore your trust in the media. We heard
a lot of opinions and some suggestions. Listen to some
of the voicemails that came in.
Speaker 3 (01:47):
This is Shelley calling from Prairie Village, Kansas.
Speaker 4 (01:50):
Name is Timmy Telliol Kocher from Milwaukee, Wisconsin.
Speaker 5 (01:54):
My name is Ewen and I'm calling from Chicago, Illinois.
Speaker 4 (01:57):
This is Lania and Nashville. One way of getting people
to trust things more is some sort of funded, bipartisan
or a multifaceted organization that sort of gave ratings or
a grade to any kind of outlet. Maybe over time
it could be something that people trust.
Speaker 3 (02:12):
One of the concerns I have particularly about in tar
is they use words that give the impression of a
feeling against a person or concept that makes you not
want to trust what you're listening to.
Speaker 2 (02:27):
If media just went into just giving the facts to educate,
that would make me trust whatever media outlets a lot more.
Speaker 5 (02:36):
I think the reason people don't trust the media anymore
than for one primary reason politics. Most people just believe
what they hear.
Speaker 1 (02:45):
Well, thanks to everyone who called in. So now to
our topic. This hour Memorial Day. It was first observed
after the Civil War and became a federal holiday in
nineteen seventy one. So what does it mean to you?
And do you think about Americans who have made the
ultimate sacrific for the country. Let's meet our panel. David
Shilkin is a former Secretary of Veterans Affairs under former
(03:06):
President Trump, and prior to that, he was Under Secretary
of Veterans Affairs under former President Obama. Secretary Shelkin welcome
to the Middle.
Speaker 6 (03:13):
Glad to be here today and.
Speaker 1 (03:15):
Also joining us Vicky Castro, a past national officer with
American Gold Star Mothers. Her son Jonathan died in the
Iraq War in two thousand and four. Vicky, great to
have you on the Middle and our condolences to you
on this memorial day.
Speaker 7 (03:29):
Thank you. Good to be here.
Speaker 8 (03:31):
Well.
Speaker 1 (03:31):
Your son, as we said, was killed in two thousand
and four, was by a suicide bomber, along with twenty
one others. What memory comes to mind first of him
twenty years later?
Speaker 7 (03:41):
Now, oh, yesterday would have been his forty first birthday.
It's been twenty years and I still miss hims and
grief for him every minute of every day. But it
(04:05):
depends you know that question. You can ask me that
question at any given time and it'll always be something different.
But with you saying reminding me of how he was killed.
He was killed by a suicide bomber. I remember our
last conversation he had called from home. He called home
from Iraq eighteen hours before he was killed, and I
(04:27):
remember the very last thing he said to me, and
that was, Mom, Remember, I have absolutely no intention of
dying in a foreign country.
Speaker 1 (04:39):
Wow. Secretary Schulkin, as you hear that, and I'm sure
you've heard stories like that from military families, from veterans.
Do you think that most Americans have an understanding of
that pain, that sacrifice that Vicky Castro is bringing up there.
Speaker 6 (05:01):
Well, I don't think so, Jeremy. And the reason I
say that is because I know that before I was
asked to come to Washington by President Obama at the time,
I had a pretty active life as a CEO of
a large hospital system and very active social life, and
(05:25):
I have to say that in my social circles, I'm
not even sure that I knew people who had children
in the military. And I soon began to realize when
I got into the role in the Department of Teran Affairs,
that it was less than one percent of our sons
(05:47):
and daughters that serve in our military, and that you
often will see that it's multiple members of a family.
It's often a son and a daughter or a nephew
and a niece, and the families and the communities and
the military communities are tight and they know each other
and they're ingrained in their social networks, and so you
(06:09):
begin to start having people that have a lot of
contact with people like Vicky and you know her network,
and then you have other social networks that have no contact,
and that sort of brings this lack of understanding of
how the sacrifice falls on a really disproportionate percentage of
(06:33):
American families. And to me as secretary, my greatest honor
was to spend time with those families and hear about
how they've not only continue to serve the country in
the ways that they do, but the amazing stories and
sacrifices and memories that they have of those who have served.
Speaker 1 (06:57):
Vicky, as we said, you work with the Group of
America and Gold Star Mothers. What do you what does
your network say or what do people who haven't lost
loved ones in war do you think need to understand
about the experience of you and the others in that group.
Speaker 7 (07:13):
Oh my goodness, I don't. I don't know that I
want anybody to be able to well, maybe understand, but
I don't want anybody to fill to live what we live.
Speaker 9 (07:28):
Right.
Speaker 7 (07:29):
Our membership requirement is that you have lost a loved
one in the line of service. And what our group
does and what we are is we're support to each
other and we are mothers that have come to the
realization that by our grieving process is helped by volunteerism,
(07:50):
and most of our volunteer acts go towards military families
via the VA, the USO. I mean, there's so many
the dav any of those groups we volunteer and work
with our military families and that helps us through our
grieving process.
Speaker 1 (08:10):
Yeah, let's get to the phones and Mario, who's in
Oak Park, Illinois. Mario, welcome to the middle. What do
you think? What does memorial they mean to you?
Speaker 10 (08:20):
Memorial Day? What it means to me is I think
of my seven friends that got killed with me when
I was with them, we were together out there in Iraq.
They were shot down with a heat seeking missile and boy,
I tell you that was a bad day. And you
know what makes it even worse, They got shot down.
(08:40):
The Marines who went out there to go rescue them
got blown up. I think three or four of them died.
Speaker 8 (08:45):
It was a bad day.
Speaker 10 (08:46):
So that's what it means to me. That's what it
means to me. My Yeah, my seven comrades, and two
of them it was their first mission, and five of
them it was their last. Asked and we always Yeah,
we would always talk about it. Hey, you want to
go on your last one? I said, I hope this
was my last one, you know, And that's what it
(09:07):
means to me. It's uh, it's painful, it's it's painful.
But I caught my blessings, you know, I caught my blessings.
And I have white shoe polish, and and throughout my
window of my van, I put you know, I try
to fit their names or I try to put a
reference to where someone can look it up as to
you know, these specific specific seven you know, written to die. Yeah,
(09:33):
that's what it means to me.
Speaker 1 (09:34):
Hey, Mario, let me ask you. You know, first of all,
thank you for your service. But since you've come back,
do you feel like you've been treated well by your
fellow citizens or well enough by your fellow citizens?
Speaker 10 (09:46):
I am glad you asked me that. Let me tell
you right now, the VA system is incredible. Incredible. If
any anyone who ever talks bad or questions the VA system,
I always say, wait a minute, because I'm there often,
you know, with the hearing and the asthma and stuff
like that. Incredible. And as soon as I walk in
(10:08):
anything I need give me your last four of your
social good to go anything, I mean anything you could
want housing, rehab, anything, anything, or if you're sick. Yeah,
it's been great coming back. Everybody else, everybody else is
cool too. Yeah, they're you know, they're nice to us.
They're nice to us.
Speaker 1 (10:25):
Yeah, Mario, thank you so much for your for your call.
And David Schulkin. I didn't know whether he was going
to say what he was going to say about the
VA there, but he had nice words for the VA.
Speaker 6 (10:36):
Yeah. Well, look, the VA cares for, you know, more
than ten million people like Mario, and not everybody is
going to have Mario's experience. But to me, getting out
and talking to veterans like Mario and hearing about how
important the VA is to them and the support that
(10:57):
they get from the VA is really what motivated me
to fight to make this a better system and to
make sure that it wasn't privatized, it didn't get into
that partisan politics that Washington so often does, that the
VA can't really become a political entity.
Speaker 1 (11:17):
We're going to get to that later on again. Our
number is eight four four Middle that's eight four four
four six four three three five three Tolliver as we said,
Americans have been observing Memorial Day officially since just after
the Civil War. It used to be called Decoration Day.
Speaker 2 (11:30):
Yeah, and about half of all Americans who have died
in war died fighting the Civil War. Then Vice President
Lyndon Johnson spoke on Memorial Day in nineteen sixty three
from Gettysburg, Pennsylvania, one hundred years after the Battle of Gettysburg.
Speaker 11 (11:42):
We honor them now as we join on this Memorial
Day of nineteen sixty three in a prayer for permanent
peace in the world and the fulfillment of our hopes
for our universal freedom and justice.
Speaker 1 (11:59):
It was really interesting in finding that audio Tolliver to
think that nineteen sixty three was exactly one hundred years
after the Battle of Gettysburg, which was in eighteen sixty three.
It's just it reminds you how recent the Civil War
really was. I think we think of it as like way, way,
way long ago. But yeah, actually, like you know, for them,
it was that was one hundred years. So anyway, we
(12:22):
back with more calls in a minute. On the middle.
This is the Middle. I'm Jeremy Hobson. If you're just
tuning in the middle is a national call in show.
We're focused on elevating voices from the middle geographically, politically,
and philosophically, or maybe you just want to meet in
the middle. This hour, we're asking you what does Memorial
Day mean to you? Tolliver, what's the number to call in?
Speaker 2 (12:42):
It's eight four four four Middle. That's eight four four
four six four three three five three. You can also
write to us that listen to the Middle dot com
or on social media.
Speaker 1 (12:49):
I'm joined by former Secretary of Veterans Affairs David Schulkin
and gold Star mother Vicki Castro, who lost her son
in the Iraq War. Before we get back to the phones,
Secretary Schulkin, I suppose one of the most import reasons
for someone to actually think about those who died in
war on Memorial Day is so that they fully consider
the cost of war when the US considers getting involved
(13:09):
in a war.
Speaker 6 (13:12):
Yeah, yeah, I think that's right. I mean, to me,
Memorial Day is about recognizing and remembering the sacrifices. But
along with that, Jeremy, comes exactly what you said, And
too often the decision to go to war is not
considered with the full costs because those costs often take
(13:33):
decades to show up and seeing that right now the
largest number of veterans that the VA cares for are
actually Vietnam veterans who are now average age of seventy
eight years old. But the VA has responsibility for them
until the very end, and then of course even making
(13:54):
sure that they're buried with a proper ceremony and dignity.
Speaker 1 (13:59):
The VA maintain.
Speaker 6 (14:00):
International cemeteries throughout the country for that purpose.
Speaker 1 (14:03):
Vicky Castro, after your son died, you actually demonstrated against
the Iraq war. What do you what do you think
about war these days? Do you do you find that
there are times when it is justified?
Speaker 7 (14:17):
I've you know, it's hard, you know, looking at history,
you know, because I studied history and some of the
things you know, during the war and especially during the
Holocaust and everything to step in. I wouldn't say that
that was wrong. But that being said, or the most part,
(14:37):
nobody wins a war, just somebody loses less or I
don't know, you know, how you score a win. I
don't think the war is the answer. For the most part,
war is just the result of failing to communicate in
a way that you can, you know, get along. I
(14:59):
don't know how gun solve the answer. It's not going
to get us to an answer at gunpoint.
Speaker 1 (15:07):
Let's go to Thomas, who is joining us from Baker, Louisiana. Thomas,
welcome to the middle, Go ahead.
Speaker 9 (15:15):
Hi, thanks for having me. I've been thinking about the
question for the best couple of hours, and my first
thought is the answer to was the Memorial Day to mean?
To me? And bluntly, as a retail employee, it basically
means that my store closes to and a half hours early.
Speaker 5 (15:37):
Um.
Speaker 9 (15:37):
Fortunate enough, I don't have any killed in action family
members or friends or anything like that. But thanking on
my answer there, it had me think of another point,
and that's how unusual it is that this country, generally speaking,
has a culture where we really care for our military
(16:01):
personnel and also being respectful to the dead. And given
this that a lot of businesses just use it as
a day to start selling off a bunch of meaningless
stuff that is like, hey, come get our crap for
seventy five percent off. I can understand that being disrespectful
(16:26):
to people that have lost someone.
Speaker 1 (16:30):
Yeah, Thomas, thank you for that call. Vicky castro let
me ask you, you know, do you find. Do you
feel disrespected at all when you see Memorial Day sales?
Speaker 7 (16:41):
Yes, especially that you know all of the banners. It's
like it's like a big celebration, as if this is
supposed to be a day of celebration, which is not.
It's a day of observance to remember and to acknowledge
the sacrifices that are being made in your name, whether
you're aware of it or not. These sacrific devices are
made now. It would help a little bit if all
(17:03):
of these stores that had all these big sales would
allocate their income from the day to veterans services in
some capacity, donated to Fisher House or the dav or
any of those things as part of their hoop law
for the day. But it just, yeah, most of it
(17:25):
is just so celebratory, is the thing. So I'm not
really keen on that.
Speaker 1 (17:31):
Yeah. Edie is with us from Westchester, Pennsylvania. Edie, welcome
to the middle, go ahead.
Speaker 12 (17:38):
Thank you. Vicky Castro. I am so sorry. I thank
you for having an amazing son who was willing to
go and to send my freedom and my right to
enjoy my afternoon and my cho I'm so sorry, And
(18:03):
I really think that Memorial Day is supposed to be
a day of remembrance, and I totally agree with these
crazy sales, and you know, it's become like project first
day of Summer, and I just find it very distasteful
and dishonorable for our veterans. And I'm the mother of
(18:28):
a marine. It's the mother in law of a marine.
So I have so much respect for these people because
without them, we could not have our day to day
joys of getting our car, going to the grocery store,
you know, going to work. And again, Missus Castro, I'm
(18:49):
so sorry, and you are. You know, I'm cognizant of
these losses and I just wish people would be more
aware of it. And absolutely what I agree with Missus
Castro too. Anybody who's open on Memorial Day, those proceeds
should be going to our veterans.
Speaker 1 (19:07):
Edie, thank you so much for that call. Vicky Castro,
I don't know if you want to respond there to Edie.
Speaker 7 (19:14):
You know, yeah, I appreciate when when people acknowledge my
son's sacrifice and my family's loss. He was my only child,
and it built a big hole in my life and
it does you know, it's a bomb to know that
(19:35):
people acknowledge and remember, because if if his life isn't remembered,
then oh my goodness, that's what hurts.
Speaker 1 (19:46):
You know. One of the things David Schulkin that we
heard from Edie there was about, you know, somebody sacrificing
for our freedom in this country. And there are now
wars that the US has fought that as you look
back on them twenty twenty hindsight, many people would say
that war was not about our freedom. Let's talk about
(20:07):
Vietnam for a second. You know, you could make the
case that this is you know, communism versus capitalism, or
these big things are going on in the world. But
many people would look at Vietnam and say that was
a war that we didn't need to get involved in
the United States. How does that affect, you know, how
military veterans are treated and how we think about those
(20:28):
who've died in war.
Speaker 6 (20:31):
Well, it's a good question, I think as you speak
to our Vietnam veterans, in particular, because of the domestic
controversy over that exact issue, Jeremy, when our Vietnam veterans
got back, they were not welcomed as heroes. Many people
remember when Vietnam veterans actually stepped off the planes and
(20:54):
onto American soil for the first time. Some of them
were spad upon and others were booed, and that went
with them for a long time. A lot of Vietnam
veterans to this day still don't trust the government because
of the way that they were treated. Now, I think,
as we heard earlier from Mario, fortunately in our more
recent conflicts, our veterans and our military come back to
(21:18):
a heroes welcome. But you have to understand every conflict
has to be interpreted in the context of the political
situation in the country. And yet everyone who raises their
hand and puts their life at risk is serving their
country and listening to the commander in chief, and they
(21:39):
really should not be exposed to these types of political divisions.
And so I think that's part of our commitment that
we need to make, which is not to judge those
who are really just serving the country and treat them
with the respect.
Speaker 1 (21:55):
Yeah, let's go to Joseph who's in high Sorry, yeah,
Joseph who is in high Ridge, Missouri. Joseph, welcome to.
Speaker 13 (22:02):
The middle go ahead, Hi, thanks for taking my call home.
A Memorial Day we all need to reflect on the
people who fight and die and put their lives on
the line on behalf of all the rest of us,
whether they're conscripted or especially the ones who volunteer and
(22:24):
choose to do that. But unfortunately, on you know, I mean,
I think about I had classmates, someone who died in
my rack, my uncle died in Vietnam. I had a
great uncle who died in the World War Two, And unfortunately,
you know, when I talk to friends who are veterans
(22:45):
and my grandfather in World War Two, especially what I
think of a memorial Day, part of it is the great,
profound sense of betrayal of our political leadership to our
veterans and the people they asked it to die. On
all the rest of it, therapy have to keep them
in power. I mean, the lives surrounding Iraq and Vietnam,
(23:05):
or my grandfather, especially by the end of his life,
he said he wouldn't have thought if he could see
what what had happened, the primrose path, that we had
been let down with the inversion of the morality he
grew up with at the ka of our cities, the
mass immigration swamping his working class friends. I mean he
had his British tensioner friends who were in London, and
(23:26):
they thought so that they wouldn't be speaking German and
by the end of their lives that native British were
a minority in London, and that there was a book
The Unknown Soldiers by Nicholas Kringle about a decade ago
where he solicited thoughts on the direction their country had
gone and the UK and almost to him that are
(23:48):
happy with modern convenience as yeah, and women.
Speaker 1 (23:53):
So Joseph, Joseph, I think we we've got it there,
that that basically not happy with the politics here at home.
I thank you for that call, and I want to
go to Wade, who is in South Holland, Illinois. Wade,
welcome to the middle go ahead.
Speaker 8 (24:07):
Ahi, thanks for taking my call. First, I just want
to give my condolences to your guest and all others
of course who've lost their sons and daughters. But yeah,
to me, Memorial Day is of course about remembering those
that have you know, died in the service of the country.
(24:28):
And but they get a lot of aggravation, you know,
besides all the commercialism and being more about first day
of summer, but about how so many people want to
give well wishes and thanks to services to the veterans,
and you ask any veterans, especially combat veteran, and it
is not their holiday, you know. I remember my uncle
(24:51):
who served in Vietnam, told his story once about how
some moments said oh, happy Memorial Day, blah blah blah,
and you know, and he needs very roughly told her,
not my holiday. Hmm. You know, no, no, no thanks anyway,
no thought, nothing, just not my holiday. And you just
know he was thinking of I don't know how many
(25:15):
of his fellow soldiers that he watched die in Coochie.
Speaker 1 (25:21):
So, yeah, Wade, thank you for that.
Speaker 8 (25:24):
That's something I think about.
Speaker 1 (25:25):
Yeah, thank you. I appreciate that call at Vicky Castro,
your thoughts not my holiday.
Speaker 7 (25:31):
Yeah, it's very true. I know. I've I've been to
d C frequently for rolling Thunder. They don't do it.
They have another thing now. But and a lot of
times I would see people, you know, always thank you,
thank you for your service, thank you for your service,
and I would let them know and and a lot
of times the veterans would let them know, this isn't
(25:53):
my day, This isn't my day. You know, we have veterans,
and as far as I'm concerned, you know, thanks a
veteran for their service three hundred and sixty four days
a year. Just not memorials.
Speaker 1 (26:04):
Just not memorials. There, Tolliver, I know a lot of
comments are coming in online.
Speaker 2 (26:09):
Yeah, we got a ton of them. Dennison, Connecticut writes
Memorial Days the Times. Remember your neighbor when you were
growing up who never said a word about his military
experiences until you find out as a seventeen year old
he was in the D Day Invasion and through to
the Battle of the Bulge in the European theater. Alex
and Massachusetts rights for gold Star families. Every day is
Memorial Day. I've had the honor of interacting with several
who have lost loved ones in battle. They try to
(26:31):
keep their memories alive and ways big and small. They
visit their graves, They start foundations that awards scholarships. They
tell stories about those sons and daughters, brothers and sisters,
husbands or wives, fathers and mothers. Take a minute to
think about their sacrifice on Monday.
Speaker 1 (26:45):
Yeah great, and you can write to us. By the way,
listen to the Middle dot com. You can also call
US at eight four four four Middle That is eight
four four four six four three three five three. Cliff
is in New Orleans, High Cliff, Welcome to the Middle.
Speaker 11 (26:59):
Hi there.
Speaker 14 (27:01):
What Memorial Day means for me growing up? My father
was a World War Two combat vet and he served
in the Italian theater. He also served in Anzio. Anyway,
he said he was one soon after they landed at Anzio,
(27:22):
they were just taking a break, a lunch break, and
there's a small little stream and he just wanted to
be by himself and just eat his lunch by himself.
And more of his buddies were on the other side
of the small stream, and right in the middle of
that of their eating, a German eighty eight shell came
in and took all four of them out. Wow, And
(27:43):
he you know, he wasn't that far away, but he
was unscathed. And he just wanted to say that that's
what what war was like. And he said, that's what
it was like when you fight for your country. And
he just wanted to infer what wars like, the horrors
(28:04):
of war as well as what it was like to
fight for America and what it stood for. And you know,
we could evolve from there and think.
Speaker 1 (28:14):
But request you know, we've heard from so many people
that have been talking about military families. Your dad was
in World War Two? Did you join the armed forces?
Speaker 8 (28:25):
I did not.
Speaker 1 (28:27):
What was that a choice that you made? Like, did
you think about doing it and decide not to?
Speaker 14 (28:34):
I wasn't thinking of if we're going to go on politics.
I wasn't thinking about that. When I was of age,
there was a thing called Vietnam, right and my dad
I wasn't thinking. Really, I wasn't thinking about going there.
My dad did not think that that was a quote
(28:55):
unquote just war, and he I will help you. But
I had no idea about amnesty or any of that
kind of thing. At the end of the day, my
number was like two twelve and I never and I
was in college so I never did find that, so
it never became a reality. But no, my dad was
not a military family. I mean, you know, yeah, military, you.
Speaker 1 (29:18):
Weren't in the military. Cliff, thank you so much for that.
And I've seen that We've got an email in it.
Listen to the middle dot com Memorial Day. This is
from Amy Memorial Days for those who died in service
to our country and those who passed from their service,
i e. Suicide. As my brother, Corporal Biro would say
every year Veterans Days for those still among the living.
(29:39):
Since his passing from suicide, I've met other siblings who
are now trying to live without their brother or sister.
Siblings are often called the silent, overlooked grievers. We're going
to get to that in a moment. At Tolliver, as
we've been hearing, Memorial Day is a very serious important day,
but there are also a lot of.
Speaker 2 (29:55):
Sales there are, Yeah, well not sure. Let me check
real quick.
Speaker 7 (30:00):
Highlights your Memorial Day weekend with a special cookout and
stock up on everything you need.
Speaker 12 (30:04):
At wind Dixie it's.
Speaker 1 (30:06):
Mattress Discounters Memorial Day triple bonus sale.
Speaker 9 (30:09):
All our mattress sets are on sale.
Speaker 4 (30:12):
We get to Waterbed Gallery superstores Sunday Monday Memorial Day sale.
Speaker 8 (30:15):
We really cut prices to the bone during this once
a year event.
Speaker 15 (30:19):
Waterer Bank started only seventy nine dollars.
Speaker 1 (30:22):
Waterbeds remember those? Actually, you know what, Telliver, my parents
had a waterbed.
Speaker 2 (30:26):
Okay, you know what. I've been apartment hunting and they
all say no water beds. And he has a waterbed because.
Speaker 1 (30:31):
It starts leaking. That's what happens. It starts leaking. Okay,
we'll be back with more in a minute. On the Middle.
This is the Middle. I'm Jeremy Hobson. We're asking you
this hour what does Memorial Day mean to you? You
can call us at eight four four four Middle. That's
eight four four four six four three three five three,
or you can reach out at listen to the Middle
dot com. I'm joined by former Secretary of Veterans Affairs
(30:53):
David Schulkin and gold Star mother Vicki Castro. Before we
get back to the phones, David Chulkin, we heard just
a moment ago that email about suicide. I mentioned earlier
that about seven thousand Americans have died or did die
in the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, but more than
thirty thousand have died in that time period since nine
(31:14):
to eleven from suicide, service members dying after they come
back from suicide. How do you remember those people in
the context of Memorial Day.
Speaker 6 (31:25):
Well, I think you've said it correctly that, as we
discussed before, that the war doesn't end, or the conflict
doesn't end when people come back home and in fact,
we're seeing many more people taking their own life than
losing it on the battlefield. And that's why the number
(31:45):
one priority for the Department of Veteran Affairs is to
help prevent veteran suicide. And even with all the efforts
that are extended there and there are some really important programs,
last year, suicide in this country among veterans went up
eleven point six percent. So this is a national crisis.
(32:06):
It is one that we do not have under control.
We need to do a lot more. There are a
lot of people out there who need help, and we're
going to need to continue to work at this for
quite some time.
Speaker 1 (32:20):
Vicky Castro, as you know, Secretary of Sulkin, served in
both the Trump and Obama administration. Do you find that
the VA or the way that we think about veterans
is a political or does it feel political? It changes
based on the administration.
Speaker 7 (32:40):
That depends on what level. The military itself is supposed
to be a political. But you go on to any
military base and into their mess halls and whatever, and
a lot of them don't turn the news off of
Fox News, and you know how political is that. So
(33:04):
I do find that there are politics involved Ideally there
wouldn't be, but it is. It seeps through. I think
a lot of people in position in the VA try
try to make it not be about politics, but so
much of the funding for the VA is tied up
(33:25):
in politics. Every year they passed the Packed Act, but
then now they're trying to chip away at it. So yeah,
you know, because the politics hold the purse strings. So
unfortunately it is Secretary Sholk.
Speaker 1 (33:40):
What do you think about that?
Speaker 6 (33:43):
I think Vicky has an amazingly objective insight into this.
You know, I went into this without any allegiance to
a political party. I was confirmed one hundred to zero
two times by the US Senate. In fact, the ask
cabinet member ever to get one hundred to zero. And
I will say all I did as secretaries deal with politics.
(34:07):
I tried very hard to shield the department from it.
I tried very hard to make sure that I was
making the right decisions that I felt for those that served.
But all around me was a swirl of politics, and
I made it very, very challenging. So I think Vicky's
comments are exactly on target.
Speaker 1 (34:26):
Let's go to the phones in Janice, who's in Fort Collins, Colorado,
Janis welcome to the middle.
Speaker 15 (34:31):
Go ahead, thank you.
Speaker 16 (34:33):
Can you hear me?
Speaker 1 (34:34):
I can hear you?
Speaker 16 (34:35):
Fine, go ahead, okay.
Speaker 15 (34:38):
All right.
Speaker 16 (34:39):
I absolutely love and respect and appreciate all those who
have given their lives in service to our country. My
concern is that many have given their lives in wars
that were, not, in my opinion, necessary, And I've been
listening others have referenced Vietnam. I certainly will say Iraq.
(35:05):
My father served in World War Two, my brother served
in Vietnam. I visited Normandy and felt immense appreciation and
respect for those who were buried there. But we need
to honor our military and our fallen by not getting
into wars that are not necessary.
Speaker 1 (35:29):
Jennis, thank you, and let me take that to Vicky Castro.
You came back. You know, I've seen videos of you
speaking at anti Iraq war rallies, so you obviously feel
similarly there.
Speaker 7 (35:45):
Well, especially especially Iraq. I know that. Even my son,
you know, he told me, he says, Mom, don't worry,
we're not going into Iraq. And I'm like, son, I
hear those war drums and he says, no, Mom, We're
not going into Iraqi. Because the three reasons he says,
Number One, fine, Saddam Hussein's a bad guy, but he's
(36:06):
our bad guy, and if we take him out, what
comes to power may be worse than what is there.
Number Two, that we have them contained in Iraq, we
don't need to go in there. And number three, it's
about Afghanistan, and that would take the eyes off of Afghanistan.
So when we went into Iraq, he was very frustrated.
Of course I was very frustrated too. I didn't think
(36:30):
we belonged in Iraq. Everything that brought us into Iraq
was a lie. Everything that kept us in Iraq was
a lie. And how many thousands of our bravest and
brightest lost their lives in the sands of Iraq.
Speaker 1 (36:44):
So how do you think about your son's heroism? And
I know that you've talked about what exactly happened there
with him and the more than twenty others who died
in that attack, his heroism in a war that you
believe was and that many Americans believe was not worth
fighting in the first place.
Speaker 7 (37:03):
Because he was a soldier. First. He was a soldier
and he was going to follow orders and do the mission.
But here's the thing. People have to understand. His mission
was to keep himself and his battle buddies alive, period,
no politics, know anything, just stay alive, keep my battle
(37:23):
buddies alive. And that's what he was and that's what
he was trained to do.
Speaker 1 (37:28):
Let's go to Michael, who is in Arlington, Massachusetts. Michael,
welcome to the middle.
Speaker 15 (37:33):
Go ahead, Hi, Hi, Well, I'm commander of the local
VSW here and what Memorial Day. One of the things
we do in preparation for Memorial Day last weekend and
the weekend before lash, we and some wonderful volunteers, including
kids from the local high school, we put flags in
(37:56):
at every single grave at the big out Pleasant Cemetery,
which is a very old cemetery going back to colonial
times that's in the middle of Arlington, and it was
a huge effort and we went and double checked and
we found that they didn't miss a grave and there
(38:18):
were hundreds and hundreds of graves to put flags on.
So it was just a great thing.
Speaker 1 (38:25):
Really, that's that's wonderful. That's it's really moving actually to
see the pictures of people like you putting the flags
on the graves on Memorial Day.
Speaker 15 (38:36):
Well, once forget, I'm a vet. So it's it's like,
you know, I'm saluting my own but the fact is
so many people that are not veterans volunteers and did it.
And I remember one guy said to me at the end,
he was dropping me off that cafe Nero. For my
reward for being so good, I was going to have
(38:58):
pay three of coffee, and as he shook my hand,
he said, you know, I went there as a duty
because I'm an American citizen. But we finished up, I
suddenly realized what a pleasure it has been. And that's
(39:18):
the generosity of spirit I met time at a time
again last time.
Speaker 1 (39:24):
Well, thank you so much Michael for calling in. Really
appreciate that, and good luck this weekend. Let's get to
another one, Karen, who is in Cherokee, North Carolina. Karen,
welcome to the Middle.
Speaker 17 (39:37):
Yes, my grandfather was in World War One and my
father was in Hawaii when it was bombed by the Japanese.
He was seventeen years old when he went to war,
and they both came home scarred. I'm sure it was
very difficult for them in their private lives when they
came home to get used to civilian life again. But
(39:57):
also the people who lose the You can give nothing
more valuable than your life for this country, and it's
given for us to live in freedom. I've been in
a communist country. I know the difference, and this is
a beautiful country and I hate the idea that we
had a president who had no respect for our dead
or are wounded. Those are the most precious people we have.
(40:21):
They gave everything they had.
Speaker 1 (40:24):
Karen, thank you so much for that call. David Shelkin.
It's just amazing to hear from so many people who
have these personal connections. Obviously, there are so many Americans
out there like VICKI and people who are serving the
armed forces, who are veterans of the armed forces, but
you don't necessarily run into them and talk to them
in everyday life all over the place. And it's so
(40:45):
nice to hear from so many today.
Speaker 6 (40:49):
I think that's true. And one of the things that's
come up a couple times during our time together is
that wherever I go and I often will see people
responding to emergencies like hurricanes and you know, natural disasters.
You see people helping other people. It often turns out
those are veterans. You know, our veterans volunteer for things
(41:13):
more than others in the community. They vote more than others.
These are people who really believe in our country and
want to make it a better place. And I'm so
grateful every time I meet a family like Vicki's and
others around the country.
Speaker 1 (41:31):
Yeah, Vicky, how much of your time do you spend
now this is twenty years later, working with groups like
American gold Star Mothers or with fellow military families and veterans.
Speaker 7 (41:45):
Well, it comes and goes, you know, it depends on
how well my health is holding up and what position
am I on in. When I was on the National Board,
it was a full time job, time job, straight across
the board. Now I've retired from teaching and so I
(42:07):
have more free time, and I'm going to say I've
scaled back a bit, but I do like to still,
you know, stay in touch and do volunteer work at
the USOS and the VA and some of the you know,
we put on little barbecues and stuff for veterans groups.
(42:30):
So time wise, I don't know anymore. Like I said,
I've scaled back a bit, but a lot of that
has to do with health issues than other things.
Speaker 1 (42:38):
Let's go to Kate, who's in Fort Collins, Colorado. Kate,
Welcome to the middle.
Speaker 3 (42:41):
Go ahead, Hi.
Speaker 18 (42:44):
I wanted to comment on what somebody said earlier about
most of our soldiers coming from about one percent of
American families. That was true with my husband's family. His
father served in World War One, of his brother's in
World War Two, a brother in Korea, and then the
(43:04):
youngest two in Vietnam. And they did it out of
a sense of duty, but also because they were drafted,
whereas somebody who was in college or somebody that had
a job that was deemed more important than what they
were doing didn't have to go. And I think most
(43:30):
absoluent families don't even consider their sons going into the military.
And the people in Congress and most of them haven't served,
and it seems like it's only a certain segment of
the population that really does serve this country. And my
(43:50):
husband is still suffering extreme PTSD from what he experienced
as a marine in Vietnam. You know, those people aren't
really celebrated, not a Memorial Day and not on Veterans
Day really, and those are meaningless to my husband. But
(44:12):
I just think it should be more equal.
Speaker 1 (44:16):
Yeah, can it's a great point. I'm so glad you
brought it up, and Secretary of Shelkin, this is something
I wanted to get to, which is that there, you know,
there's a class situation in the military. There are a
lot of Americans who are on the lower income that
that do go and serve. And then you know, as
(44:37):
she said, affluent people maybe don't have that much of
a connection to the wars that we fight in this country.
Speaker 6 (44:44):
I think that's absolutely true. And one of the things
that I believe when you look at the state of
our country right now and the fact that we're probably
more divided than we've been, you know, ever since I
can remember, I believe there should be a now national
year of service that is mandatory for young people. And
(45:06):
one of the reasons I believe that you don't have
to in what I believe a year service would be
be in the military. You could volunteer to help in
all sorts of ways around this country with all of
our social problems. But one of the reasons I believe
that's so important and our way forward is because when
you come together and you're forced to deal with people
(45:27):
who come from different cultures and different socio economic backgrounds
and different geographies of the country. You bond and you
get to listen and learn and become closer to other people,
and that brings us together as a country. So I
think that's a very true statement, and I think we
need to really do something about it.
Speaker 1 (45:48):
Tulliver, what else is coming in online?
Speaker 7 (45:50):
Yeah?
Speaker 16 (45:51):
Sorry?
Speaker 2 (45:52):
John and Rockford writes as Memorial Day approaches, I think
back on the wars this country wage a half century
ago against the peoples of Vietnam, Cambodian Laos country. They're
memorials to the Americans who lost their lives during those conflicts,
But what are the three million innocence murdered in those
countries who were so cruelly ravaged, none of whom have
ever done you or me any other harm. Let's remember
(46:12):
and mourn them all. George Wright, as someone who faced
the draft in the late sixties, I feel terrible for
those who went to fight and those who lost their lives,
given the wrongness of that war, which has become clearer
over time, and the lessons not learned which led to
future wars. I protested that war and knew that going
into Iraq for weapons of mass destruction which did not
exist was wrong. It just goes on and on.
Speaker 1 (46:34):
Yeah again, you can write your elements. Yeah, listen to
the middle dot com Vicky Castro. We're running out of time,
but I do want to give you the last word here.
Any advice to Americans from your point of view as
we remember those who have died in war in this country,
your thoughts.
Speaker 7 (46:54):
Well. I was a school teacher for many years and
I kept a picture of my son there on the wall.
And on Memorial Day, as they were going for their
Memorial weekend, I remind them. I understand that you're excited
because you have an extra day off of school. This
is but I want you to at least focus. I'm
(47:14):
not asking you to spend the weekend morning. That's not
what we're expecting. Just set aside a certain period of
time to think about and remember those who have died
in the line of service and the sacrifices that have
been made because each one of those lives lost had
(47:34):
a family attached to it, and the ripple effect from
each death is significant. And just to take a few minutes,
even if it's just, you know, like a moment of silence,
please and let's remember each and every one of them.
Speaker 1 (47:51):
Well, I want to thank my guests. That was gold
Star Mother, Vicky Castro, thank you so much for joining us,
Thank you. And Secretary of Veterans Affairs under the Trump
administration and before that under the Obama administration, David Shalkin,
thank you so much for being here. Thank you as well,
and Tolliver. Next week we're going to be talking about
(48:11):
a war that the US is involved in but is
not directly fighting, and that would be the war in
Israel in Gaza.
Speaker 2 (48:17):
Yeah, and we've heard so much about the protests in
this country. So we want to know is whether the
US role in the war is something that will affect
your vote this November. You can call us at eight
four four four Middle that's eight four four four six
four three three five three, or write in at listen
to the Middle dot com.
Speaker 1 (48:31):
And while you're there, you can sign up for our
weekly newsletter. The Middle is brought to you by Long
Nook Media, distributed by Illinois Public Media in Urbana, Illinois,
and produced by Joeann Jennings, Harrison Patino, Danny Alexander, and
John Barth. Our intern is Anika Deshler. Our technical director
is Jason croft Or theme music was composed by Andrew Haig.
(48:52):
Thanks also to Nashville Public Radio, iHeartMedia, and the more
than four hundred and ten public radio stations that are
making it possible for people across the country to listen
to the middle. I'm Jeremy Hobson. I'll talk to you
next week.
Host
Jeremy Hobson
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