January 24, 2025 • 50 mins
On this episode of The Middle we're asking you: what are your thoughts on President Trump's deportation policy? Jeremy is live from the WNIN studio in Evansville, Indiana and is joined by Indiana Lieutenant Governor Micah Beckwith and State Representative Alex Burton. The Middle's house DJ Tolliver joins as well, plus callers from around the country. #Trump #deportation #immigration #undocumented #migrants
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hey, Tolliver, Yes, I've got a big announcement to make.
That is that we have an offer on the table
right now from the very generous Tyler Dickman Foundation that
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That meant we've never had that before, have you? Do
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(00:20):
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It's amazing.
Speaker 3 (00:21):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (00:22):
What that means is that if you make a contribution
to the Middle right now at listen to the Middle
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let's just try this out. If I make a one
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Speaker 4 (00:35):
It becomes two hundred dollars, two hundred dollars if I
marry the one.
Speaker 5 (00:38):
If I make a one thousand dollars contribution.
Speaker 4 (00:41):
That's two grand.
Speaker 1 (00:42):
That's two grand, right, that gets it. So we're trying
to raise ten thousand dollars in about two weeks right now,
so that we can make that ten thousand into twenty thousand,
which really goes so far in helping us put together
this show and create a space for civil conversation across
party lines, not focused on the extremes, but focused on
what Tolliver.
Speaker 4 (01:01):
The Middle is it really kickstart our year.
Speaker 5 (01:04):
You know, Listen to the Middle.
Speaker 1 (01:06):
Dot com is where you can go to make that
contribution and now enjoy the show.
Speaker 5 (01:15):
Welcome to the Middle.
Speaker 1 (01:16):
I'm Jeremy Hobson coming to you from the studios of
w NIN in Evansville, Indiana this week along with our house.
Speaker 5 (01:23):
DJ Tolliver and Tolliver. There is so much going on
this week it is almost dizzying.
Speaker 4 (01:28):
Jeremy, what a year this week has been. Totally cannot
keep tapping my hands on the swavel.
Speaker 1 (01:33):
Absolutely, But of course, one of the biggest things that
people are paying attention to this week is the president's
plan now underway to deport everyone who is in the
country illegally. That's more than eleven million people. It has
already begun. We should note that nearly eighty percent of
the undocumented immigrants in this country have been here for
(01:54):
fifteen years or more, so trying to deport them will
have big implications for families, some of which include US citizens. Obviously,
for the economy, there are logistical challenges, and of course,
there is the image of the United States as a
Land of Immigrants.
Speaker 5 (02:08):
So we want to hear from you this hour.
Speaker 1 (02:10):
Our number is eight four four four Middle that's eight
four four four six four three three five three, and
we will get to your calls in a moment. But first,
last week we asked you if democracy is really in
danger as Trump returns to power. A lot of interesting
and diverse opinions came in. Here are some of the
calls we got after the show.
Speaker 6 (02:28):
This is Cynthia from Cleveland, Ohio. I do believe that
our democracy is threatened, and part of that comes from
the fact that the people that he is selecting for
the cabinet are not the kinds of people to hold
him back from doing more of the extreme things.
Speaker 7 (02:49):
My name is Kevin from Denver. I'm an African American.
I'm retired, but I rose out of poverty. And when
you talk about what the democracy will end with Trump,
I think that there are some implications here that we
have democracy now, and I believe that it's been chipping
(03:10):
away for quite some time.
Speaker 8 (03:13):
Hi, this is Josh Line. I'm from the Houston, Texas area.
It's Donald Trump's election a threat to democracy? Probably not.
I believe that if he had intended to disrupt democracy.
He could have been twenty twenty.
Speaker 1 (03:28):
Well, thanks to everybody who called in, and you can
hear that entire episode on our podcast in partnership with
iHeart Podcasts on the iHeart app or wherever you listen
to podcasts. So now to our topic this hour, Trump's
deportation program. What does it mean for the country, the
economy for you? Are you against it? Are you for it?
Speaker 9 (03:45):
We want to hear your thoughts. Tolliver, what is the
number again?
Speaker 10 (03:48):
Please?
Speaker 4 (03:48):
It's eight four four four Middle. That's eight four four
four six four three thirty five three. Or you can
write to us that listen to the Middle dot com.
You can also comment on our live stream on it, YouTube, TikTok, Facebook, Instagram,
and Twitch. I'll just posted on TikTok last second. I'm
sorry I was better late than ever. But join us
on the live stream now they know on TikTok.
Speaker 5 (04:07):
All right, let's meet our panel.
Speaker 1 (04:09):
Indiana's new Lieutenant Governor, Micah Beckwit, a Republican, is with us.
Speaker 5 (04:12):
Lieutenant Governor.
Speaker 10 (04:13):
Welcome to the Middle, Hey, thanks for having me on.
I'm excited to be with you all.
Speaker 1 (04:17):
And also joining us is Indiana State Representative Alex Burton,
a Democrat who represents Evansville where we are currently broadcasting.
Also new to that office. Representative Burton. Great to have
you on the show as well.
Speaker 2 (04:28):
Thank you so much for having me.
Speaker 1 (04:29):
It's nice to have two we call them freshmen, because
you guys have not yet, you know, picked up all
the talking points. You actually are able to speak your mind,
maybe a little bit more. But let me let me
just start before we get to the phones. I want
to ask each of you about this as we broadcast
from Evansville.
Speaker 5 (04:46):
Representative Burton.
Speaker 1 (04:46):
I'll start with you, how do you feel about the
deportations that are underway right now and what concerns.
Speaker 10 (04:51):
Do you have?
Speaker 11 (04:52):
Yeah, thank you so much for having me here. And
the concerns that I have is simply, it's uprooting families
from the place that they've wanted to make home. Families
here in Evansville specifically have chosen our community for a
myriad of reasons, and they're here. We are the bedrock
of Southwest Indiana when it comes to manufacturing, and I'm
(05:12):
here and hopeful that the immigrant prop population across Indiana,
specifically in Southwest Indiana, can find a home here in.
Speaker 5 (05:19):
Evansville even if they're coming in illegally.
Speaker 2 (05:22):
If they come here illegally, there's a pathway.
Speaker 11 (05:25):
But I think there's too much of a focus on
illegal immigration here in Indiana.
Speaker 2 (05:28):
We're not the other border near the border.
Speaker 11 (05:31):
There are legal persons here in the state who have
made their home here, and that's where the focus should
be on and making sure that those who are here
are taken care of.
Speaker 1 (05:39):
Lieutenant Governor, I imagine you disagree. You've been supportive of
President Trump's proposal. How do you feel about it and
do you have any concerns about how the deportations will
be and are being carried out.
Speaker 10 (05:49):
Well, I think we're either a nation of laws or
we're not.
Speaker 12 (05:52):
And if people come here illegally, they broke our laws,
and so if people like that, then we can change
the law. But at some point we us say we
either uphold our laws or we don't. And quite frankly,
the world knows that we're not enforcing our laws, and
so we're seeing extremely dangerous situations occur with the fentanyl
coming across the border, both the north and the southern border.
(06:15):
I think every state is a border state now because
we're seeing a fentanyl desk increase in Indiana, and I
think what President Trump is doing is first and foremost
getting the criminals and the cartels and the gangs out
of here. I don't think the intention is to, you know,
deport people who are you know, have established lives here.
I think the intention is first and foremost to get
(06:36):
to people that are dangerous to society, and then let's
talk after that. But really, we're either going to uphold
our laws or we're not. I think that's the question
at hand.
Speaker 1 (06:45):
So just to be clear, what you're saying is then
that you would be okay with somebody who has not
broken laws other than coming across the border illegally and
been here for ten or fifteen years.
Speaker 5 (06:54):
In the United States, with them staying here.
Speaker 12 (06:57):
Well, well, let's first get the Let's first get the
million or so gangs and criminals out. There's reports of
upwards of thirteen million illegal people here right now, and
so I think we do first first steps. First steps,
Get the criminals, those that are violent, those that have
committed just egregious, just crimes against our nation. Let's get
(07:20):
them out, and then we'll we'll have a conversation what
to do next. But I think we got to do
first things first. And I like what President Trump's doing,
I like what tom Ma Hohlman's doing, and I know
in Indiana we're going to support that.
Speaker 1 (07:30):
So I saw an estimate of Representative Burton that about
two percent or more than two percent of Indiana's labor
force are undocumented. That would be I think more than
sixty thousand people. For the record, as you said, more
than forty percent of the immigrants who are in the
US illegally are in two states, California and Texas. But
what kind of an economic effect do you think that
people in Indiana, states like Indiana would feel if all
(07:54):
of those people either were deported by force or decided
to self deport out of fear that they're are going
to be deported.
Speaker 2 (08:01):
Sure.
Speaker 11 (08:01):
I think the thing to highlight the most of what
you just said and shared is that the number is
so small of those who are undocumented here, and we
can't focus on that small of a number as it
relates to the immigrants in our community. For me and
being involved in industry specifically and manufacturing for years and years,
(08:23):
we see that our employees across Southwest Indiana specifically are
overworked for the immigrant population who exist here in Indiana.
For them to be frightened scared by all these policy changes,
what's to stop them from going across the river to
Kentucky to feel safe, to feel protected, and to make
a way of life. If that happens, our employees, those
(08:46):
families are going to be directly impacted the most well.
Speaker 1 (08:49):
Lieutenant Governor, Leaving aside your views about the actual deportation,
what kind of economic effect do you think it will have?
Just there are so many cooks, construction people that are
un documented in this country, all across this country.
Speaker 12 (09:02):
I think you have you got to be asking a
question of what what strain on our on our system
are the illegal immigrants having right now? If you look
at Seymour, Indiana, they don't have the bandwidth to uh,
to educate, to care for to maintain the type of
influx that they've seen, even in the last two years.
And that's been that's been documented. There's been multiple reports
(09:25):
and what's been going on in Seymour. I've talked to
people in Seymour when I was campaigning. I've talked to
legislators from Seymour, and so my question is, we're we're
spending a lot of public dollars and resources on uh
that that would otherwise go to to citizens, And we
now have to take care of these illegal immigrants that
have come across. And listen, I'm a compassionate guy. I
(09:47):
want to help people, but we can't help them if
we don't know they're here. And so what I say is, hey,
come into our nation like we we want to be
an open, open arms nation, but you got to do
it legally and then we can keep up. We can
make sure that the people are being cared for. But
if you're here legally, I mean, how can we help somebody?
And I think it's it's really been a big strain
(10:10):
on our resources. So I actually think it will help
us economically in the long run.
Speaker 1 (10:16):
Let's get to a callic squeeze one in before we
take a quick break. Bill as in Bethlehem, Pennsylvania. Bill,
welcome to the middle your thoughts on the deportation program?
Speaker 13 (10:25):
I mean, well, thank you. I'm a retired economist and
I'm not an expert on the unemployment statistics, but economists
in general say four point one percent, which is the
most recent figure that I remember, is essentially full employment
because people are always changing jobs. So there's always going
(10:47):
to be some people temporarily unemployed. If you deport eleven
million people, let's say five million of them have jobs,
four million, it's millions. Anyway, it's going to be one
dramatic labor shortage. It'll be harder to produce things because
(11:10):
there won't be as many people to produce them, which
will put an upward pressure on prices, and it's going
to cause a certain amount of inflation. One example recently
on NPR was about me packing plants in Nebraska facing
(11:30):
an acute problem if workers get deported.
Speaker 5 (11:36):
Phil, Thank you very much for that.
Speaker 1 (11:38):
Represent Burtain, just just briefly your thoughts on that just
I mean the idea of inflation, which we've been dealing
with for so long.
Speaker 5 (11:44):
That that could get worse with the deportations.
Speaker 11 (11:47):
Absolutely, you know the Lieutenant governor mentioned, you know Seymour, Indiana.
Speaker 2 (11:53):
I truly believe that if cities.
Speaker 11 (11:56):
Like Seymour are facing some issues when it relates to
as it relates to immigration, those coming in and it's
messing with their bandwidth, Surely there's resources across the state.
If we have a surplus of upwards of almost three
billion dollars in reserves. Then surely we can find a
way to take care of people who are choosing to
call Indiana home. Here in Evansville, we've done it. We
(12:17):
are literally in the process of opening it, opening the
Immigrant Welcome Center.
Speaker 1 (12:21):
I'm going to give you an opportunity to respond to that,
Lieutenant Governor, right after we take this break. But Tolliver,
you know the deportations are expected to go into effect nationwide,
but the Trump administration says its early efforts will be
in the city of Chicago.
Speaker 2 (12:34):
Yes, my home city. That's right.
Speaker 4 (12:36):
Here's Chicago Mayor Brandon Johnson talking to the press just
last week.
Speaker 14 (12:39):
Protecting residents in the city of Chicago is of most
importance here. Those guidelines that have been specified are tethered
to state and local law. Is that the fear that
has found its way in the city of Chicago because
of the threats that are coming from the incoming administration,
(13:00):
the people of Chicago can rest assured that the full
force of government will do everything in its power to
protect the residents of this city.
Speaker 1 (13:08):
Tulliver, you once ran to be Alderman in Chicago, so
that could have been you as the mayor.
Speaker 5 (13:11):
Right there.
Speaker 4 (13:12):
I got about negative twenty percent of the vote.
Speaker 2 (13:14):
Man, it was a close call, but I lost.
Speaker 10 (13:16):
By a hair Oh.
Speaker 1 (13:17):
Man, Well, we're glad that that happened because you're here
with us. We'll be back with more of your calls
in a minute. On the Middle, This is the Middle.
I'm Jeremy Hobson coming to you this week from Evansville, Indiana.
If you're just tuning in, we are a national call
in show focused on elevating voices from the middle geographically, politically,
and philosophically.
Speaker 5 (13:36):
Or maybe you just want to meet in the middle.
Speaker 1 (13:38):
This hour, we're asking you about Trump's deportation plans what
they mean for you, the economy, and the country. Tolliver,
can you give us the number again to call in?
Speaker 4 (13:46):
Yeah, it's eight four four four Middle. That's eight four
four four six four three three five three. Can also
write to us at Listen to the Middle dot com.
And you know, once again, make sure you tune into
our YouTube. Okay, we're really trying to promote that blow
it up. Check out our YouTube straating right.
Speaker 5 (13:59):
Man, thank you for the YouTube ad.
Speaker 1 (14:00):
I am joined by Indiana Republican Lieutenant Governor Micah Beckworth
and Indiana Democratic state representative Alex Burton before we go
back to the funds, I want to give you an
opportunity to respond to that.
Speaker 5 (14:10):
Micah Beckworth, what we what we.
Speaker 1 (14:11):
Heard and with the idea also just just on the
resources drawn by illegal immigrants that many of them contribute
to things like social security, but then they never take
any out.
Speaker 12 (14:23):
Too well, I think we're seeing we're seeing more of
a drain when it comes to our state in Indiana
from what they are they are taking from the state resources.
And and again, I you know, I heard Representative Burton said,
but I go back to my original point.
Speaker 10 (14:41):
Are we going to be a nation of laws? Or
are we not?
Speaker 12 (14:44):
And I guess that's I keep coming back to that
as like, we want to be compassionate, absolutely, we want
to care for those that need cared for, absolutely, And
in Indiana we are a welcoming state. But how can
we care for people we don't even know are here?
And so so you know, we've got you know, upwards
of thirteen million people in the nation illegally and that's
(15:05):
from reports that I've heard. So we've got to do
a better job of making sure that people recognize our
laws are in place for a reason. And it's in
place for public safety, it's in place because we want
to help those who who need help. And so again,
as much as you know that compassionate heart needs to
be maintained, we've got to say there's there's a there's
(15:26):
a reason we ask everyone to go through the front door.
Speaker 1 (15:28):
And the how do you just on the issue of compassion,
how do you feel about the idea of of agents
going into places like schools and churches for raids, which
the Trump administration has said is okay.
Speaker 12 (15:40):
Now, well, I mean, I think let's let's wait to
see if they're actually going to do that. I've my
my issue is, Ben, we got to start with the
violent offenders, the criminals. Let's let's take care of that
step one, and then let's have a conversation. And I
think that's Listen, Trump's coming in and he's coming in
hard because we've allowed our system to be abused for
(16:01):
far too long, and I think he needs to I
think you need to have bold leadership. I think you
need to make a statement to the rest of the world.
If you're gonna come to America, you got to come
through the front door and don't jump the fence. And
so he's doing what needs to be done. Again, do
I think he's gonna, you know, raid schools and churches. No,
I don't think that's probably gonna be the case at all.
But I do think he's making the statement, you break
our laws, there's gonna be consequences, especially for those who
(16:23):
break our laws, and then and then add violent crime
on top of that, so let's get rid of them.
I mean, I look at Chicago. We played the clip
from Brandon Johnson. I shake my head. I'm like, Mayor Johnson,
you your city is crumbling. I mean, you can't even
you're kicking kids out of school so you can use
the schools for migrant shelters. I mean, that's what happened
(16:43):
just a few months ago. And I'm like, you know,
at some point, I'm like, Okay, people in Chicago, this
is what you that's what you voted for.
Speaker 10 (16:51):
You don't have schools, you don't have health care. Yeah
you can't.
Speaker 12 (16:54):
I mean, you can't like live because there's people coming
in jumping the line, and it's just not fair. You
just can't jump the line. And you know, we're asking
people to wait in line and right and be a
part of our.
Speaker 5 (17:06):
Let me let me give the representative a chance to respond.
Speaker 2 (17:09):
Yeah, jumping in line.
Speaker 11 (17:10):
This rhetoric is at some point enough is going to
have to be enough, you know, right, wrong or indifferent.
I hope this administration comes with a substantial policy to
address what's happening at the border. Inten the current president
intentionally chose not to allow the bill that Senator Lankfort
was bringing forward in Oklahoma to the floor of the Senate,
(17:32):
which is incredibly problematic. And we have to get beyond
this rhetoric of talking jumping the border or jumping the
fences and all these things. These are people who are
trying to find a better life, no different than those
who came to Evansville in the early eighteen hundreds who
became industry titans and tycoons. That is the same thing
that can happen in this new industrial revolution that needs
(17:53):
to take place.
Speaker 2 (17:54):
Every place you go to is in need of workers.
Who's coming through those doors.
Speaker 11 (17:58):
It's people who are looking for an opportunity, not a handout,
not a not a not a not some free government subsidy.
They're wanting to work. And for those families who are
here and working every single day, who are having to
work mandatory over time because there aren't enough people and
there's a line of hundreds of people who are wanting
to work, who are here legally. Something has to be done.
(18:20):
The time is now and we have to get beyond
this rhetoric. This is we are a country that is
built on on on hard work and doing things the
right way. This is the opportunity right now to do
what is right, and having this rhetoric without anything of
substance is further furtherly kicking the can, continuing continuing the can.
Speaker 2 (18:40):
Down the road. We have to do something right now.
Speaker 11 (18:41):
So I hope the Lieutenant governor puts a plan in
place and wants to bring some substantial policy forward that
addresses immigrant immigration at the core.
Speaker 15 (18:50):
Uh.
Speaker 1 (18:51):
Let me go to the phones and James is in Newbern,
North Carolina. James, what do you think about Trump's immigration
and deportation plan.
Speaker 16 (19:02):
Well, I guess I'm different from most of the other
people that have been calling in because I'm a bit younger.
I'm in my early twenties, and for me, it kind
of feels like a breath of fresh air because all
my life, every presidential, governor senatorial election, I've always heard
these I've always seen those, you know, generic ads, the
legal immigrants taking jobs, But in my own life, having
(19:22):
come of my own age politically, I guess if you
can call it that, I just feel like it's a
breath of fresh air. If someone's finally doing something. If
Tough has shown anything, is that you really just can
do something or anything, you can at least change the
world somewhat. And beyond that, I think that the argument
that we need a legal immigrants to just staff all
these jobs it's I don't know, I don't know how
(19:43):
to say this, but it's bourgeois, its capitalistic. It feels
like what we have to bring in and import all
these people just so that American corporations can keep paying lower,
lower wages, so they don't actually have to hire anyone,
so we don't have to actually provide any benefits, so
they don't have to man up and actually start paying well,
it just feels like, I don't know, at that point,
America just feels like a parasite sucking at the youth
(20:04):
and labor of the world, and that doesn't feel right
at all.
Speaker 1 (20:07):
James, let me just ask you one follow up question,
which is I mean you say that you know, the
corporations would have to pay more, would have to pay
higher wages if they were to hire American workers to.
Speaker 5 (20:15):
Do some of these jobs.
Speaker 1 (20:17):
Would you be willing to pay more at the grocery
store or more for things that you buy if they
pass those costs on to you, the consumer?
Speaker 16 (20:26):
I mean, I'm already paying more at the grocery store
and everywhere.
Speaker 1 (20:30):
Yeah, okay, great, James, thank you very much. And you
can't buy eggs these days at the grocery store. I
cannot find them there out, Lieutenant Governor, What do you
think about about what James said there?
Speaker 10 (20:40):
No, I agree with him.
Speaker 12 (20:41):
I think it's kind of promoting crony capitalism when you say, well,
we need these immigrant workers so we can just you know,
keep these corporations, you know, breaking in the profits.
Speaker 10 (20:54):
And I think he's right on.
Speaker 12 (20:55):
I think I think there's what I'm saying is exactly
what James is saying. Let's just give it a shot,
because it seems like everything else we've been doing for
the last twenty thirty years isn't working. And you know,
I would tell I would. I think it would be
hard to sit here and say what I heard represented
the burdens. Say to the family of let's say Lake
and Riley, right, We've got and we've got families in
(21:16):
Indiana that have been that have been hurt by by
immigrants who have done violent crimes to their family as well.
And so what do you tell those families. It's like,
it's not that big of a deal. Now, well it
was to them, and God forbid it happens to anybody else.
Speaker 10 (21:29):
But but we're not doing our job.
Speaker 12 (21:32):
Protecting our first priority, which is the citizens of this nation.
No no parent would ever say I'm going to sacrifice
my child's well being for my neighbor's kid. And while
we're called to be good neighbors, we're not called to
sacrifice our own children's well being for that of the
of the kid the kids down the street. We have
a primary obligation to take care of who God has
(21:53):
given us first and foremost, and that's that's under our stewardship.
And so as as a nation, we have to primarily
care for our citizen's first and foremost, so that we
then can be good.
Speaker 10 (22:03):
Neighbors to the rest of the world.
Speaker 12 (22:05):
But when our house is on fire, there's no way
we're going to be able to be good neighbors. And
I think that's what Trump is doing, is he's getting
back into control so we can actually compassionately care for
people and be a good neighbor to the rest of
the world.
Speaker 1 (22:18):
Let's go to Nick, who's in my hometown of Urbana, Illinois. Nick,
Welcome to the middle.
Speaker 17 (22:22):
Go ahead, Hello, are you there?
Speaker 18 (22:25):
Can you hear me?
Speaker 5 (22:26):
Yeah? Go ahead?
Speaker 10 (22:28):
All right?
Speaker 13 (22:28):
Yeah. So I just wanted to talk about there was a.
Speaker 18 (22:30):
Case here in Urbana that just happened. There was somebody
who had gotten in a car accident and it killed
two people right by.
Speaker 16 (22:41):
The hospital here.
Speaker 18 (22:42):
And then this guy turns out he had already been
deported once they found him. He was trying to get.
Speaker 16 (22:48):
To Mexico, back to where he's at fifteen.
Speaker 18 (22:52):
So I guess my thing is is like, Okay, we're
going to deport these people, but if they're truly violent criminals, One,
are we going to prosecute them for what they've done here?
In this case, this guy is getting extradited back to Illinois.
And Two, I mean, if he's been deported already and
he's come back, and what are we doing to keep
(23:15):
them from coming back? Like we're just going to raise
off the more security we put in there, so essentially
the people with better finances can come. But so yeah,
I guess I just want to understand a little better,
like how that system's going to work.
Speaker 1 (23:33):
That good question, Nick, thanks for calling a representative Burton,
putting aside the fact that I think the statistics do
show that undocumented immigrants commit crimes at lower levels than
just regular old American citizens, but they obviously get in
the news.
Speaker 5 (23:49):
Just like Nick has talked about Lake and Riley.
Speaker 1 (23:51):
When it happens, it really upsets people, and especially when
somebody's been deported and they came back in or they
didn't leave and then they commit a crime like that
and somebody dies.
Speaker 2 (24:00):
Yes, and.
Speaker 11 (24:03):
It is we have to do something, We have to
address it. I'm not, by any means that I'm not
saying that those who commit crimes should.
Speaker 2 (24:11):
Not be held accountable for what it is that they do.
Speaker 11 (24:13):
They absolutely should a deported and however, however the law
plays out that That is my stance on that. But
we also can't go around assuming that someone looks different
than us is automatically a criminal. And I think the
criminalization of immigration is part of the problem. And I
hope that once a plan is established to those who
(24:35):
are committing crimes here, yes, be a held accountable for
those crimes committed here, and those who are here illegally
identify that process.
Speaker 2 (24:43):
And put it on.
Speaker 11 (24:44):
There's been a whole lot of rhetoric and not a
whole lot of action and necessary steps. Now, granted, the
administration is incredibly new. I know they're working through those processes.
But I also am oddly aware that whether you're live
in Brown County, Indiana or Vanderberg County, our public safety
officials are un staffed, overworked, and that cannot be on
the burden. That cannot be an added burden to them
(25:04):
as well.
Speaker 5 (25:05):
Tolliver some one I want.
Speaker 4 (25:08):
I also want to point out that there's two Illinois
and there's two Indianas. This is the most Middleist episode
ever had geographically.
Speaker 10 (25:15):
Okay, so Paul, we're calling Woosiers.
Speaker 4 (25:18):
Okay, don't tell them, I said, see now, it's a war.
Speaker 2 (25:26):
Remember that absolutely.
Speaker 10 (25:27):
I do.
Speaker 19 (25:28):
Remember.
Speaker 4 (25:29):
Paul in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania says, here in Pittsburgh, some neighbor
are sorry. Nearby towns have shrinking populations in recent decades,
and we would benefit from an influx of immigrants, please
send them our way.
Speaker 3 (25:39):
Uh.
Speaker 4 (25:39):
Eugene and hoffin the state says this plan fails to
address the root cause of most ilegal immigration. People don't
just leave their homes across miles of perilous terrain and
pay their life savings to smugglers just so they can
live a life of luxury free loading. And here's one
I've seen a lot online, this latest one. I despise
Donald Trump, but I totally support all deportation of illegals,
and I think we should immediately begin the is to
(26:00):
amend the Constitution to stop birthrights citizens.
Speaker 1 (26:05):
Yeah, well, we know that he tried to do that
by executive order and that's been put on hold by
a judge. Let's go to Shane, who's in Houston, Texas. Shane,
welcome to the middle of your thoughts on the deportation.
Speaker 3 (26:21):
Well, thanks for having me for one, and I work
in the trades. I'm a cabinet maker here in Houston.
There's a lot of competition. Very many of those are
not legal citizens, which you know, basically I'm saying, I
am directly impacted by it all the time, and I
know very well in new construction and remodeling if you
(26:45):
take away the let's just say illegal, non registered, not
trying to get a license, not trying to get citizenship,
that's only going to push up everything else. I'm not
an economist anything else, but I would like to say
this as far as the gentleman on there who was
talking about, you know, we want to we want to
(27:06):
welcome you through the front door. I'm very good friends
with a couple who have been together for fourteen years.
She is from England. She's been back and forth here
for the last fourteen years. They got married six years ago.
She's been trying for twelve years. I had to send
pictures of them together from some event long ago, and
she still doesn't have her citizenship. These are, you know, right,
(27:30):
well to do you know they've got money, like, they're
still struggling. So how can somebody who really needs it,
who's trying to get out of desperate situations the expecutors
walk through the front door anyway?
Speaker 1 (27:42):
Thank you guys, Yeah, thank you so much, Lieutenant government
to let you take that. I guess there's two things there,
one about the just the cost of things going up,
but the other is like the legal process is very
onerous and takes a long time.
Speaker 10 (27:53):
Sure, so break the law. I guess that's the solution, right.
Speaker 5 (27:56):
Well, or it takes that part of.
Speaker 12 (27:58):
It well, And I think that's what people have to recognize.
It's like, what that caller just was saying is like,
it's okay to break the law in some cases. Now,
if we all get to decide when it's okay to
break the law, then okay, that's fine. Let's just be
consistent and let everybody decide when it's okay to break
the law, or we uphold the law right and we
just say nobody's above the law. And I think it's
(28:21):
a very dangerous slippery slope. And we say, well, you know,
it's hard to go through the process. And I'm not
saying that the process is perfect and it needs to
be reformed, But how can we expect to reform a
process when we're already underwater with the thirteen million illegals
that have come through the back door, Like, of course
we're not going to be able to open that front
door as wide as we want it to be because
(28:42):
we're trying to stay above water with you know, caring
for these thirteen million that we don't even know how
they got here and can we talk about the three
hundred thousand missing children that we still don't know. I'm
our church that I'm a part of has a big
heart for ending human trafficking, and what has happened in
the last few years with these children that have been
trafficked is absolutely just heartbreaking. And so you know, we're
(29:07):
creating this terrible problem just because we're not willing to say, hey,
follow our laws and if you break our laws, there's consequences.
But and we get callers like that, they just gotta say, well,
it's okay to break the law, but then it creates
a hundred other problems in its way.
Speaker 5 (29:22):
How would you respond to that, Representer Burton?
Speaker 11 (29:24):
Yeah, my fear, like I said earlier, is that this
is just a talking point and its rhetoric with no
substance behind it. If we're truly going to take care
of hoosiers in our case, then we need to address housing,
We need to make sure that those who are in
school can read by the time they're in third grade,
and we also need to address our health care situation.
Speaker 1 (29:44):
So you're saying that this is just not an important
issue for you. What's nice immigration?
Speaker 2 (29:48):
It is, It's equally important.
Speaker 11 (29:50):
But as a Lieutenant governor mentioned that he's going to
focus on that, the focus needs to be on taking
care of America. If we're going to do that, then
we surely can address the issues that I just mentioned.
But if not, this is another thing that we need
to add to the long list, the laundry list of
things that have to be solved. And we can't just
talk about immigration from the standpoint of people are here,
I don't want them in my backyard. They need to
(30:11):
follow the process. People are here, and good luck to
whatever agencies want to be responsible for. Why not set
up offices like TSA is in every airport, set up
offices so those who are here get them through legally.
Let's get the process on so at least have a
starting point. But to just mention it and talk about
the same talking points that have been echoed throughout the
campaign and randomly mentioned Chicago, Let's do something.
Speaker 1 (30:33):
About it, you know, Tolliver, one of the questions about
doing something about it right.
Speaker 5 (30:38):
Now involves how do you do it?
Speaker 1 (30:40):
What if you send somebody back to a country that
won't take them, then where do they go?
Speaker 10 (30:46):
You know?
Speaker 5 (30:47):
How do you just logistically do it?
Speaker 1 (30:50):
Few figures are going to be more central to that
effort than Trump's new borders are.
Speaker 5 (30:56):
Who is Tom Homan?
Speaker 2 (30:58):
I thought you were going to ask me how to
do it? Got so scared.
Speaker 4 (31:03):
That's right here he is on CBS IS sixty minutes
in November with correspondent Cecilia Bega, on.
Speaker 20 (31:09):
The heels of his historic illegal immigration crisis that has
to be done.
Speaker 4 (31:15):
What would the largest deportation in American history look like
to you?
Speaker 20 (31:21):
Well, let me tell you what's not going to be. First,
it's not going to be a mass sweep of neighborhoods.
It's not going to be building concentration camps. I've read
it all. It's ridiculous.
Speaker 4 (31:31):
But if mass deportation is not going to be, as
you said, massive sweeps and concentration.
Speaker 5 (31:36):
Camp, what is it. It'll be targeted arrest targeted arrests, arrests. Yeah,
what does that mean?
Speaker 1 (31:43):
Well, that's me I guess that's what the Lieutenant government
was talking about earlier. We'll be right back with more
of your calls coming up on the middle. This is
the middle. I'm Jeremy Hobson coming to you from w
NI in in Evansville, Indiana.
Speaker 5 (31:55):
This week, and.
Speaker 1 (31:56):
We're talking about Trump's deportation program, which is now way.
You can call us at eight four four four Middle
that's eight four four four six four three three five three,
or you can reach out at listen Toothmiddle dot com.
I am joined by Indiana Democratic state Representative Alex Burton
and the state's Republican Lieutenant Governor, Micah beckwith and let's
go right back to the phones and Nicole, who is
in Saint Louis, Missouri. Nicole, welcome to the Middle, Go.
Speaker 21 (32:18):
Ahead, Hi, thanks for having me. So, I just wanted
to say that I am actually married to a foreigner
and we have been trying to get his green card
for two and a half years, and we've been separated
for most of that time because he can't get into
the country. And I have absolutely no resentment for anybody
(32:44):
who came here anyway they could, because the process is
so long and expensive, and people who are in horrible
circumstances don't have ten years to wait for a non
marriage green card. And then on the the point of
(33:05):
them trying to come here legally, we have so many
people at the border who were trying to come through
legally with the apps that for making corol appointments that
were shut down.
Speaker 5 (33:19):
They were just shut down the other day.
Speaker 21 (33:21):
Yeah, so you can't say come in legally and then
shut down their only route to do that.
Speaker 5 (33:27):
I think the go ahead, Nicole.
Speaker 21 (33:32):
I think the mass deportation plan is a terrible idea.
I think it's cruel, and I think it will damage
our approbably Okay, and I don't think.
Speaker 1 (33:42):
That we've got it, Thank you so much. And a
Lieutenant governor just you can hear the desperation there in
Nichole's voice, and you just think about people, whether they're
coming for love or they're coming for to get away
from terrible circumstances. They're going to do what they need
to do for their own lives. And a lot of
people clearly are going to take huge risks to their
(34:04):
own safety in order to get to the United States.
Speaker 10 (34:07):
Yeah. I mean it's again heartbreaking. Right. It's not that
there's not compassion for her and you know her I
guess boyfriend or husband.
Speaker 12 (34:19):
But the question that I go back to is, all right, fine,
if we don't want to uphold our law, then that's fine.
We can pick and choose laws, but just be consistent,
Like if she gets to pick and choose the law.
She says she has no she has no disdain for
anyone who tries to get here however they can. It's like, okay, fine,
well then you can't tell someone else when they break
the law that it might be a different law.
Speaker 10 (34:39):
But they I mean, that's okay. Then. So we're either
a nation of laws or we're not.
Speaker 12 (34:44):
And I think we have to reform, Like I think
we should reform how our immigration process is. And it's
a really long line, I get it, but we can't
even begin to do that because it's so broken on
the back end. You're not going to be able to
reform the front end. So I appreciate President Trump. I
appreciate that there's finally action being being taken and we.
Speaker 1 (35:06):
Are you Are you upset that he stopped that bill,
you know, from passing, that quite conservative bill from passing
last year? And are you upset that he shut down
the CPB one app that was sort of allowed a
pathway for people to have their appointments.
Speaker 12 (35:19):
No, because CBU one app was being abused like big time.
It wasn't really doing much every I mean there are
multiple reports that it didn't. It just essentially let people
in here and they weren't coming back for their court dates.
Their court dates were years down the road. It was
just getting them into the country. So there's that and.
Speaker 10 (35:34):
The Langford Bill.
Speaker 12 (35:35):
Last year, multiple reports of of border patrol agents and
unions were were saying it's not going to do anything,
and that's why President Trump fought against it. They it
wasn't a good bill that was actually going to accomplish
the mission of securing the border, and it was just
a it was a political stunt that was trying to
be done on by the Biden administration to say no,
(35:56):
we're trying to do something.
Speaker 1 (35:58):
And uh well, he was one of the most concerned
members of the Senate that was sort of the man
behind it was.
Speaker 12 (36:02):
It was it was James Langford, and he's he was
not he's not one of the most conservative. But but
all that to say, even Tom Holman came out and said,
this bill isn't isn't going to do anything.
Speaker 10 (36:13):
So again, now we're seeing action.
Speaker 12 (36:16):
I think the last four days of the Trump administration,
we're seeing people arrested that are that have broken the law,
that are violent criminals, and I think, you know, let's
let's try it like I said earlier, it hasn't been
working for the last twenty years.
Speaker 10 (36:30):
I'm ready to try.
Speaker 1 (36:31):
To see what happens here. Yeah, let's go to Austin,
who is in Houston, Texas. Austin, welcome to the middle
of your thoughts about the deportation.
Speaker 19 (36:40):
Yeah.
Speaker 17 (36:40):
Now, I'm just going to echo what some other callers
have said. But I see one side sort of failing
to recognize the impact of citizens and services and crimes
that the influx of you know, illegal immigrants has had.
And then I see the other side having sort of
a knee jerk reaction. You know, either you broke the
law or you didn't. Then what I would like to
(37:02):
see is, you know, acknowledgement that we all want those
who have a desire to be here legally and are
good for our country to be here. And I feel
that if you have a knee jerk reaction of a
mass deportation before you address the root cause, which is
an easier and more efficient way to citizenship, then it's
(37:23):
going to cause some problems. We've got a I'm pretty
in line with President Trump on most things, but you know,
I've got a landscaper and a housekeeper that are both illegal,
and I've been trying to get citizenship for a long
time and I don't want them to be wrapped up
in that. Before we have a knee jerk reaction, we
(37:45):
need to understand what the problem is. I think it
is sort of an excuse that we can't fix the
front end before we fix the back end. We can
get that started. We can give a grace period for
if you need to begin your citizenship quest, and then
after that, if you're still not willing to do things
the right way and break the law, then we're gonna
(38:05):
kick me out. But we are.
Speaker 1 (38:07):
You think it's you think it's n what's happening right now? Austin,
thank you for that. Representative Burton your response.
Speaker 11 (38:14):
Yeah, thank you so much, Austin for your for your comments.
And and I am very much of the ground. I
know it probably sounds a little odd, but but I do.
I am in the business of solving problems, not just
having these talking points. And what you just mentioned is
is incredibly factual.
Speaker 2 (38:31):
Whether Senator Langford's bill was was.
Speaker 11 (38:34):
Golden or not, it was at least the starting point
that would have had the conversation. And sure there would
have been some arguing back and forth and debating back
and forth about how to best implement.
Speaker 2 (38:44):
But something is better than nothing.
Speaker 11 (38:46):
Right now, there's a whole lot of talking and a
whole lot of big ideas, but the EmPATH implementation is
going to be very It's going to be straining on
those who are actually going to have to carry out,
whether it's raise or risk deportations, all of that. We
have to have some sense about it and creating some
sort of a pathway. Right, those at the border so
(39:08):
had the opportunity to find their citizenship. Those who have
been in refugee camps for more than eighteen years should
have had continued their pathway onto landing in the United States. Right,
they're the most vetted persons that could ever be well.
Speaker 1 (39:20):
And by the way, Lieutenant Governor, some of those people
that were supposed to come on refugee planes were people
that helped the United States in Afghanistan whose lives are
at risk.
Speaker 5 (39:29):
Like, do you have a problem with that?
Speaker 1 (39:30):
I mean, these are people that we sort of made
a promise to as a country and then you know,
pulled the ticket.
Speaker 5 (39:36):
Out the last minute.
Speaker 12 (39:37):
No, I mean I think we should have gone out
of our way to help them get citizenship. And I
think there's in cases like that where you've you've really
served the United States overseas and you need refugee status.
That's different is that's not what we're talking about. We're
talking about people who knowingly come across our border illegally.
Speaker 10 (39:55):
They're breaking our laws.
Speaker 12 (39:56):
Like there's ways to help those who have helped us,
and there's ways to help those that want to be helped.
Speaker 10 (40:02):
But again, when you break the law, we don't know
you're here and we can't help you.
Speaker 12 (40:05):
And I guess you know, I'll maybe put it back
on Representative Burton a little bit is if you're okay
with this, I mean, then do you open up your
house and just say anybody's welcome to come at any point?
And we we kind of make this a big picture
where it's like, well they can just come in, it's
not gonna matter. And it's like, well, okay, do you
live that way in your own home? No, we lock
our doors. We make sure we know who's in our house.
(40:27):
We don't want some strangers just walking in. And and
so I hear this inconsistent kind of your rhetoric. On
one side's like we got to be open and loving
to all people. But then well, when it comes to
my city or my house or my stuff, don't touch that.
So it's just not consistent. If we're going to be consistent,
let's be consistent across you know, all levels.
Speaker 5 (40:46):
What's your response to that.
Speaker 11 (40:48):
Yeah, I absolutely agree. We have to be consistent, and
there is no consistency. On one hand, refugees are welcome,
others are not. Well, if refugees are are are welcome
here who have helped us, then let's sign a joint
letter to the to all the refugee agencies and in
support of refugees still coming to.
Speaker 2 (41:07):
The United States. We can't, we can't just we have
to do something.
Speaker 11 (41:12):
And and yes, I understand taking care of of what's
here in the United States, that is absolutely important. We
have to we have to take care of our own household,
right And and.
Speaker 5 (41:21):
Well what about that?
Speaker 1 (41:22):
What about his point about you know, would you open
up your your own doors and sort of leave them
open and say come on in and stay with me.
Speaker 2 (41:28):
Yeah, no, there's a process.
Speaker 11 (41:30):
I'm not gonna invite strangers in to stay with my family.
But at the same time, those coming in through the
process have been vetted. These are not people who are
randomly selected to come in.
Speaker 5 (41:43):
If you're you're talking about refugee.
Speaker 11 (41:45):
If you're in a refugee cam, you're you are you are,
you are vetted to the degree. For those who have
found their way here undocumented, yes, there still needs to
be a process. Even if you are you found your
way to Indiana when you pass them through several states
before you get here. If they found their way to Indiana,
there's a reason why they came here.
Speaker 1 (42:07):
Let me get to another call. Robert is in Atlanta, Georgia. Robert,
welcome to the middle. Your thoughts on the deportation program?
Speaker 3 (42:14):
Hey, how you doing?
Speaker 15 (42:15):
Can you hear me? Okay, Hey, Jeremy, thanks so much
for the program irregularly. First thing I want to prompt
we have my comments by letting you know that I
am a conservative Democrat and unluckily Vice President Harris's it
did not win because you know, Biden dragged this on
(42:37):
the way too long. So let's just talk about one
aspect that it was really important. While I was waiting,
I looked at the usc OJ website. Really in regard
to his spanis center m jail And I'm not just taking
on this Spanish because there's a whole lot of people
from a whole lot of countries that are in our
jail system. In our jail system, if you have one
(42:57):
prisoner in jail cost the US payer roughly fifty I
think fifty thousand per person per year. USDUJ website says,
and I just held a picture on it may lead
it to this is today DJ. Let me see Dave
shows that ninety four percent of confirmed aliens in calcerated
(43:20):
in federal euro president in the United States martial service
facilities are unlawfully present in the United States. Okay, so
we've got.
Speaker 5 (43:30):
So you're saying, we've got it.
Speaker 1 (43:31):
We've got a lot of a lot of undocumented immigrants
in our prisons. That's costing money.
Speaker 5 (43:34):
That's your point.
Speaker 15 (43:36):
Well, not only that, but that is the easy This
is easy pickings for Trump. So if if ninety five percent,
we'll say, are you illegally there? They're already in the
prison system, they're already costing a fifty thousand a year.
That's a big, big one.
Speaker 5 (43:53):
Why not just deport those people first?
Speaker 15 (43:55):
You're saying, Okay, that's the that's the first point. Here's
the point.
Speaker 1 (43:58):
Well, yeah, let me let me take that because we've
got limited time. Let me take that to the Lieutenant governor.
You know, there's a there's a big question about the
detention of these people.
Speaker 5 (44:07):
Private prisons are.
Speaker 1 (44:09):
Chopping at the bit to be able to get the
contracts and be able to detain some of the people.
Speaker 9 (44:14):
But what about the just the cost of detaining people
who are here in this country illegally.
Speaker 10 (44:19):
Yeah, I mean I think it's a real problem.
Speaker 12 (44:22):
Every illegal immigrant that comes across is going to put
a drain on our system. And that's that's the point.
Whether it's in our jails, whether it's in our schools,
whether it's in our hospitals, and we just don't have
the unlimited funds or the bandwidth to take care of
the whole world. I wish we did. I mean, listen,
I would love to help every single person in the world.
I hate to see suffering anywhere, but we don't. And
(44:44):
if we don't take care of our own house first,
our own our own nation first, we will not be
able to be a good neighbor. This is just practical
life skills. I mean, you got to make sure you're
taking care. I mean, that's why when the when the
mask drops.
Speaker 10 (44:57):
Down on the airplane.
Speaker 12 (44:58):
They always say, put your mask on for so that
you can help other people. And what we're doing is
we're we're rejecting our mask and say well, we can
help everyone else, and it's killing us. And and that's
that's the concern that I have. So I agree it
is draining our system.
Speaker 1 (45:13):
Kelsey is in San Antonio, Texas. Kelsey, Welcome to the
middle of your thoughts on the deportation program.
Speaker 19 (45:20):
First of all, I want to thank Representative Burton for
recognizing that this is a lot of dehumanization of people.
And I want to ask a question, as a clergy
member and as a public school teacher, what's going to
happen to the kids. We're talking about deporting parents and
(45:42):
ripping apart families and ending birthright citizenship, and we will
have kids without families to go home to no idea
that their parents are gone, and they're going home to
an empty house. They're going home to trauma. They have
no idea what is going on. We're talking about raids
and churches and raids and schools. I can't do my
(46:06):
job if I know that my students can't learn. I
can't preach if they are constantly my people are constantly
worried about their safety and their families. If you're a
person of faith, I mean, Jesus talked about caring for
the orphan and the widow, and the stranger and the foreigner.
(46:27):
And if that's what we're supposed to do, yes, we
need to take care of our house first. But if
we're using this as an excuse to not take care
of our house because we have all of these programs
that we're talking about, oh, well, we need to take
care of veterans, but we're not doing that. We're making
illegal immigration a huge issue and not taking care of
other things. But really, I'm worried about the kids because
(46:50):
that's who I work with most.
Speaker 1 (46:51):
Yeah, Kelsey, thank you very much. I'll go to your
representative Burton. It's a good point. I mean I'm thinking
about I asked the Lieutenant governor earlier about you know,
the idea of going into schools and churches, But what
about that? What kind of a trauma does it leave
on people, on the kids in the school if the
if you know, their friend gets deported or their friends'
parents or their parents get deported.
Speaker 11 (47:12):
Yeah, that's incredibly problematic here in Indiana when more than
forty percent of the immigrant population, our children. I have
to give a shout out to Bowling Green, Kentucky because
they have done a phenomenal job of working with the
school system and creating a program for those who are
not new to America, and it is helping them.
Speaker 2 (47:33):
If they've came to the.
Speaker 11 (47:34):
United States at age sixteen, they're able to take courses
and it was passed through the Kentucky legislature where they're
able to get services up until they're twenty one. Indiana
doesn't have anything along those lines, and so there's an
opportunity and we're missing We're missing it because we were
letting this rhetoric control no substance. And if there's going
(47:57):
to be some stubstance, we can address housing and address
our educational system, and we can address address our healthcare issues.
We're not doing any of the above. We're just saying
we have a problem. And I'm gonna stand on my
box and I'm gonn continue talking about immigration, immigration, and
I'm not going to have anything substantive to bring to
the table to actually solve the problem.
Speaker 1 (48:15):
I'm going to give you the last where we're running.
We've run out of time, but I'm going to give
you the last word, Lieutenant Govenor, and I just want
to ask you this something that hasn't come up so
much this hour, but it is a question on a
lot of people's minds. It's sort of a bigger picture
question about this, which is how do we deal with
the idea of like that the US, the image of
America around the world gets seen as racist xenophobic for
(48:36):
for you know, carrying out this deportation program, even if
some of it is sort of like just to be
in front of the cameras to make a point.
Speaker 5 (48:43):
What about that? Are you worried about that at all?
Speaker 10 (48:46):
Oh? No, not at all.
Speaker 12 (48:47):
I mean, listen, we got to do what's right. If
we can stand before God and say we did what's right,
then that's what I'm concerned with. And to your caller
that invoked, you know, her clergy background, I also am
a part of right here from pastor, that's what I do.
And uh, you know, Romans thirteen says that the government
does not bear the sword in vain, and so when
you're breaking laws, God does not give you the right
(49:09):
to break a law unless it violates his law. And
the immigration law does not violate God's law. God is
a set up sovereign borders. He told nations you have
you have sovereign borders to protect. So so I think
I'm not worried about the image. I think if we
do what's right, I think that will actually supersede and
win the end of the day. And listen, people throw
(49:30):
around words like racist and xenophobic all the time. Those
words don't really carry much weight in my book anymore
because they get used.
Speaker 10 (49:38):
I mean, I get called that when I.
Speaker 12 (49:40):
Eat a Chick fil A, right, and people say, you're, well,
you know something for supporting Chick fil A.
Speaker 10 (49:45):
So we just got to do what's right.
Speaker 5 (49:47):
Okay, that's why we have to leave it there.
Speaker 1 (49:50):
I will say Tolliver's data is also was also a pastor, So.
Speaker 5 (49:54):
There's a lot of a lot of a lot of
in this room.
Speaker 1 (49:57):
I want to thank my guest so much, Indiana Democratic
State of Sresenative Alex Burton and Republican Lieutenant Governor.
Speaker 5 (50:02):
Micha beck With.
Speaker 9 (50:02):
Really appreciate both of you coming on the show this evening.
Speaker 10 (50:06):
Thank you appreciate it.
Speaker 1 (50:08):
And next week we're gonna be diving into foreign policy
as we take your questions about the Middle East with
our guests Barham Sala, the former president of Iraq, Tolliver.
Speaker 5 (50:16):
That's our first world leader.
Speaker 4 (50:18):
Well you don't think I'm a world leader, Jeremy outs Man.
As always, you can call in at eight four four
four Middle that's eight four four four six four three
three five three, or you can reach out to listen
to the Middle dot com. You can also sign up
for our free weekly newsletter, and don't forget to check
out our brand new video podcast on YouTube.
Speaker 2 (50:33):
We can watch us as well.
Speaker 10 (50:33):
As hear us.
Speaker 1 (50:34):
Thanks this week to Kent McDonald, Tim Black, Jason Yezer,
and Todd Donaldson here at W and I and I'm
Jeremy Hobson and I will talk to you next week
Hey, Tolliver, Yes, I've got a big announcement to make.
That is that we have an offer on the table
right now from the very generous Tyler Dickman Foundation that
has made a ten thousand dollars challenge grant to the Middle.
That meant we've never had that before, have you? Do
you remember that ever happening before. I've never had that,
(00:20):
that's never happened.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
It's amazing.
Speaker 3 (00:21):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (00:22):
What that means is that if you make a contribution
to the Middle right now at listen to the Middle
dot com, it is matched dollar four dollars. So, Tolliver,
let's just try this out. If I make a one
hundred dollars contribution, then.
Speaker 4 (00:35):
It becomes two hundred dollars, two hundred dollars if I
marry the one.
Speaker 5 (00:38):
If I make a one thousand dollars contribution.
Speaker 4 (00:41):
That's two grand.
Speaker 1 (00:42):
That's two grand, right, that gets it. So we're trying
to raise ten thousand dollars in about two weeks right now,
so that we can make that ten thousand into twenty thousand,
which really goes so far in helping us put together
this show and create a space for civil conversation across
party lines, not focused on the extremes, but focused on
what Tolliver.
Speaker 4 (01:01):
The Middle is it really kickstart our year.
Speaker 5 (01:04):
You know, Listen to the Middle.
Speaker 1 (01:06):
Dot com is where you can go to make that
contribution and now enjoy the show.
Speaker 5 (01:15):
Welcome to the Middle.
Speaker 1 (01:16):
I'm Jeremy Hobson coming to you from the studios of
w NIN in Evansville, Indiana this week along with our house.
Speaker 5 (01:23):
DJ Tolliver and Tolliver. There is so much going on
this week it is almost dizzying.
Speaker 4 (01:28):
Jeremy, what a year this week has been. Totally cannot
keep tapping my hands on the swavel.
Speaker 1 (01:33):
Absolutely, But of course, one of the biggest things that
people are paying attention to this week is the president's
plan now underway to deport everyone who is in the
country illegally. That's more than eleven million people. It has
already begun. We should note that nearly eighty percent of
the undocumented immigrants in this country have been here for
(01:54):
fifteen years or more, so trying to deport them will
have big implications for families, some of which include US citizens. Obviously,
for the economy, there are logistical challenges, and of course,
there is the image of the United States as a
Land of Immigrants.
Speaker 5 (02:08):
So we want to hear from you this hour.
Speaker 1 (02:10):
Our number is eight four four four Middle that's eight
four four four six four three three five three, and
we will get to your calls in a moment. But first,
last week we asked you if democracy is really in
danger as Trump returns to power. A lot of interesting
and diverse opinions came in. Here are some of the
calls we got after the show.
Speaker 6 (02:28):
This is Cynthia from Cleveland, Ohio. I do believe that
our democracy is threatened, and part of that comes from
the fact that the people that he is selecting for
the cabinet are not the kinds of people to hold
him back from doing more of the extreme things.
Speaker 7 (02:49):
My name is Kevin from Denver. I'm an African American.
I'm retired, but I rose out of poverty. And when
you talk about what the democracy will end with Trump,
I think that there are some implications here that we
have democracy now, and I believe that it's been chipping
(03:10):
away for quite some time.
Speaker 8 (03:13):
Hi, this is Josh Line. I'm from the Houston, Texas area.
It's Donald Trump's election a threat to democracy? Probably not.
I believe that if he had intended to disrupt democracy.
He could have been twenty twenty.
Speaker 1 (03:28):
Well, thanks to everybody who called in, and you can
hear that entire episode on our podcast in partnership with
iHeart Podcasts on the iHeart app or wherever you listen
to podcasts. So now to our topic this hour, Trump's
deportation program. What does it mean for the country, the
economy for you? Are you against it? Are you for it?
Speaker 9 (03:45):
We want to hear your thoughts. Tolliver, what is the
number again?
Speaker 10 (03:48):
Please?
Speaker 4 (03:48):
It's eight four four four Middle. That's eight four four
four six four three thirty five three. Or you can
write to us that listen to the Middle dot com.
You can also comment on our live stream on it, YouTube, TikTok, Facebook, Instagram,
and Twitch. I'll just posted on TikTok last second. I'm
sorry I was better late than ever. But join us
on the live stream now they know on TikTok.
Speaker 5 (04:07):
All right, let's meet our panel.
Speaker 1 (04:09):
Indiana's new Lieutenant Governor, Micah Beckwit, a Republican, is with us.
Speaker 5 (04:12):
Lieutenant Governor.
Speaker 10 (04:13):
Welcome to the Middle, Hey, thanks for having me on.
I'm excited to be with you all.
Speaker 1 (04:17):
And also joining us is Indiana State Representative Alex Burton,
a Democrat who represents Evansville where we are currently broadcasting.
Also new to that office. Representative Burton. Great to have
you on the show as well.
Speaker 2 (04:28):
Thank you so much for having me.
Speaker 1 (04:29):
It's nice to have two we call them freshmen, because
you guys have not yet, you know, picked up all
the talking points. You actually are able to speak your mind,
maybe a little bit more. But let me let me
just start before we get to the phones. I want
to ask each of you about this as we broadcast
from Evansville.
Speaker 5 (04:46):
Representative Burton.
Speaker 1 (04:46):
I'll start with you, how do you feel about the
deportations that are underway right now and what concerns.
Speaker 10 (04:51):
Do you have?
Speaker 11 (04:52):
Yeah, thank you so much for having me here. And
the concerns that I have is simply, it's uprooting families
from the place that they've wanted to make home. Families
here in Evansville specifically have chosen our community for a
myriad of reasons, and they're here. We are the bedrock
of Southwest Indiana when it comes to manufacturing, and I'm
(05:12):
here and hopeful that the immigrant prop population across Indiana,
specifically in Southwest Indiana, can find a home here in.
Speaker 5 (05:19):
Evansville even if they're coming in illegally.
Speaker 2 (05:22):
If they come here illegally, there's a pathway.
Speaker 11 (05:25):
But I think there's too much of a focus on
illegal immigration here in Indiana.
Speaker 2 (05:28):
We're not the other border near the border.
Speaker 11 (05:31):
There are legal persons here in the state who have
made their home here, and that's where the focus should
be on and making sure that those who are here
are taken care of.
Speaker 1 (05:39):
Lieutenant Governor, I imagine you disagree. You've been supportive of
President Trump's proposal. How do you feel about it and
do you have any concerns about how the deportations will
be and are being carried out.
Speaker 10 (05:49):
Well, I think we're either a nation of laws or
we're not.
Speaker 12 (05:52):
And if people come here illegally, they broke our laws,
and so if people like that, then we can change
the law. But at some point we us say we
either uphold our laws or we don't. And quite frankly,
the world knows that we're not enforcing our laws, and
so we're seeing extremely dangerous situations occur with the fentanyl
coming across the border, both the north and the southern border.
(06:15):
I think every state is a border state now because
we're seeing a fentanyl desk increase in Indiana, and I
think what President Trump is doing is first and foremost
getting the criminals and the cartels and the gangs out
of here. I don't think the intention is to, you know,
deport people who are you know, have established lives here.
I think the intention is first and foremost to get
(06:36):
to people that are dangerous to society, and then let's
talk after that. But really, we're either going to uphold
our laws or we're not. I think that's the question
at hand.
Speaker 1 (06:45):
So just to be clear, what you're saying is then
that you would be okay with somebody who has not
broken laws other than coming across the border illegally and
been here for ten or fifteen years.
Speaker 5 (06:54):
In the United States, with them staying here.
Speaker 12 (06:57):
Well, well, let's first get the Let's first get the
million or so gangs and criminals out. There's reports of
upwards of thirteen million illegal people here right now, and
so I think we do first first steps. First steps,
Get the criminals, those that are violent, those that have
committed just egregious, just crimes against our nation. Let's get
(07:20):
them out, and then we'll we'll have a conversation what
to do next. But I think we got to do
first things first. And I like what President Trump's doing,
I like what tom Ma Hohlman's doing, and I know
in Indiana we're going to support that.
Speaker 1 (07:30):
So I saw an estimate of Representative Burton that about
two percent or more than two percent of Indiana's labor
force are undocumented. That would be I think more than
sixty thousand people. For the record, as you said, more
than forty percent of the immigrants who are in the
US illegally are in two states, California and Texas. But
what kind of an economic effect do you think that
people in Indiana, states like Indiana would feel if all
(07:54):
of those people either were deported by force or decided
to self deport out of fear that they're are going
to be deported.
Speaker 2 (08:01):
Sure.
Speaker 11 (08:01):
I think the thing to highlight the most of what
you just said and shared is that the number is
so small of those who are undocumented here, and we
can't focus on that small of a number as it
relates to the immigrants in our community. For me and
being involved in industry specifically and manufacturing for years and years,
(08:23):
we see that our employees across Southwest Indiana specifically are
overworked for the immigrant population who exist here in Indiana.
For them to be frightened scared by all these policy changes,
what's to stop them from going across the river to
Kentucky to feel safe, to feel protected, and to make
a way of life. If that happens, our employees, those
(08:46):
families are going to be directly impacted the most well.
Speaker 1 (08:49):
Lieutenant Governor, Leaving aside your views about the actual deportation,
what kind of economic effect do you think it will have?
Just there are so many cooks, construction people that are
un documented in this country, all across this country.
Speaker 12 (09:02):
I think you have you got to be asking a
question of what what strain on our on our system
are the illegal immigrants having right now? If you look
at Seymour, Indiana, they don't have the bandwidth to uh,
to educate, to care for to maintain the type of
influx that they've seen, even in the last two years.
And that's been that's been documented. There's been multiple reports
(09:25):
and what's been going on in Seymour. I've talked to
people in Seymour when I was campaigning. I've talked to
legislators from Seymour, and so my question is, we're we're
spending a lot of public dollars and resources on uh
that that would otherwise go to to citizens, And we
now have to take care of these illegal immigrants that
have come across. And listen, I'm a compassionate guy. I
(09:47):
want to help people, but we can't help them if
we don't know they're here. And so what I say is, hey,
come into our nation like we we want to be
an open, open arms nation, but you got to do
it legally and then we can keep up. We can
make sure that the people are being cared for. But
if you're here legally, I mean, how can we help somebody?
And I think it's it's really been a big strain
(10:10):
on our resources. So I actually think it will help
us economically in the long run.
Speaker 1 (10:16):
Let's get to a callic squeeze one in before we
take a quick break. Bill as in Bethlehem, Pennsylvania. Bill,
welcome to the middle your thoughts on the deportation program?
Speaker 13 (10:25):
I mean, well, thank you. I'm a retired economist and
I'm not an expert on the unemployment statistics, but economists
in general say four point one percent, which is the
most recent figure that I remember, is essentially full employment
because people are always changing jobs. So there's always going
(10:47):
to be some people temporarily unemployed. If you deport eleven
million people, let's say five million of them have jobs,
four million, it's millions. Anyway, it's going to be one
dramatic labor shortage. It'll be harder to produce things because
(11:10):
there won't be as many people to produce them, which
will put an upward pressure on prices, and it's going
to cause a certain amount of inflation. One example recently
on NPR was about me packing plants in Nebraska facing
(11:30):
an acute problem if workers get deported.
Speaker 5 (11:36):
Phil, Thank you very much for that.
Speaker 1 (11:38):
Represent Burtain, just just briefly your thoughts on that just
I mean the idea of inflation, which we've been dealing
with for so long.
Speaker 5 (11:44):
That that could get worse with the deportations.
Speaker 11 (11:47):
Absolutely, you know the Lieutenant governor mentioned, you know Seymour, Indiana.
Speaker 2 (11:53):
I truly believe that if cities.
Speaker 11 (11:56):
Like Seymour are facing some issues when it relates to
as it relates to immigration, those coming in and it's
messing with their bandwidth, Surely there's resources across the state.
If we have a surplus of upwards of almost three
billion dollars in reserves. Then surely we can find a
way to take care of people who are choosing to
call Indiana home. Here in Evansville, we've done it. We
(12:17):
are literally in the process of opening it, opening the
Immigrant Welcome Center.
Speaker 1 (12:21):
I'm going to give you an opportunity to respond to that,
Lieutenant Governor, right after we take this break. But Tolliver,
you know the deportations are expected to go into effect nationwide,
but the Trump administration says its early efforts will be
in the city of Chicago.
Speaker 2 (12:34):
Yes, my home city. That's right.
Speaker 4 (12:36):
Here's Chicago Mayor Brandon Johnson talking to the press just
last week.
Speaker 14 (12:39):
Protecting residents in the city of Chicago is of most
importance here. Those guidelines that have been specified are tethered
to state and local law. Is that the fear that
has found its way in the city of Chicago because
of the threats that are coming from the incoming administration,
(13:00):
the people of Chicago can rest assured that the full
force of government will do everything in its power to
protect the residents of this city.
Speaker 1 (13:08):
Tulliver, you once ran to be Alderman in Chicago, so
that could have been you as the mayor.
Speaker 5 (13:11):
Right there.
Speaker 4 (13:12):
I got about negative twenty percent of the vote.
Speaker 2 (13:14):
Man, it was a close call, but I lost.
Speaker 10 (13:16):
By a hair Oh.
Speaker 1 (13:17):
Man, Well, we're glad that that happened because you're here
with us. We'll be back with more of your calls
in a minute. On the Middle, This is the Middle.
I'm Jeremy Hobson coming to you this week from Evansville, Indiana.
If you're just tuning in, we are a national call
in show focused on elevating voices from the middle geographically, politically,
and philosophically.
Speaker 5 (13:36):
Or maybe you just want to meet in the middle.
Speaker 1 (13:38):
This hour, we're asking you about Trump's deportation plans what
they mean for you, the economy, and the country. Tolliver,
can you give us the number again to call in?
Speaker 4 (13:46):
Yeah, it's eight four four four Middle. That's eight four
four four six four three three five three. Can also
write to us at Listen to the Middle dot com.
And you know, once again, make sure you tune into
our YouTube. Okay, we're really trying to promote that blow
it up. Check out our YouTube straating right.
Speaker 5 (13:59):
Man, thank you for the YouTube ad.
Speaker 1 (14:00):
I am joined by Indiana Republican Lieutenant Governor Micah Beckworth
and Indiana Democratic state representative Alex Burton before we go
back to the funds, I want to give you an
opportunity to respond to that.
Speaker 5 (14:10):
Micah Beckworth, what we what we.
Speaker 1 (14:11):
Heard and with the idea also just just on the
resources drawn by illegal immigrants that many of them contribute
to things like social security, but then they never take
any out.
Speaker 12 (14:23):
Too well, I think we're seeing we're seeing more of
a drain when it comes to our state in Indiana
from what they are they are taking from the state resources.
And and again, I you know, I heard Representative Burton said,
but I go back to my original point.
Speaker 10 (14:41):
Are we going to be a nation of laws? Or
are we not?
Speaker 12 (14:44):
And I guess that's I keep coming back to that
as like, we want to be compassionate, absolutely, we want
to care for those that need cared for, absolutely, And
in Indiana we are a welcoming state. But how can
we care for people we don't even know are here?
And so so you know, we've got you know, upwards
of thirteen million people in the nation illegally and that's
(15:05):
from reports that I've heard. So we've got to do
a better job of making sure that people recognize our
laws are in place for a reason. And it's in
place for public safety, it's in place because we want
to help those who who need help. And so again,
as much as you know that compassionate heart needs to
be maintained, we've got to say there's there's a there's
(15:26):
a reason we ask everyone to go through the front door.
Speaker 1 (15:28):
And the how do you just on the issue of compassion,
how do you feel about the idea of of agents
going into places like schools and churches for raids, which
the Trump administration has said is okay.
Speaker 12 (15:40):
Now, well, I mean, I think let's let's wait to
see if they're actually going to do that. I've my
my issue is, Ben, we got to start with the
violent offenders, the criminals. Let's let's take care of that
step one, and then let's have a conversation. And I
think that's Listen, Trump's coming in and he's coming in
hard because we've allowed our system to be abused for
(16:01):
far too long, and I think he needs to I
think you need to have bold leadership. I think you
need to make a statement to the rest of the world.
If you're gonna come to America, you got to come
through the front door and don't jump the fence. And
so he's doing what needs to be done. Again, do
I think he's gonna, you know, raid schools and churches. No,
I don't think that's probably gonna be the case at all.
But I do think he's making the statement, you break
our laws, there's gonna be consequences, especially for those who
(16:23):
break our laws, and then and then add violent crime
on top of that, so let's get rid of them.
I mean, I look at Chicago. We played the clip
from Brandon Johnson. I shake my head. I'm like, Mayor Johnson,
you your city is crumbling. I mean, you can't even
you're kicking kids out of school so you can use
the schools for migrant shelters. I mean, that's what happened
(16:43):
just a few months ago. And I'm like, you know,
at some point, I'm like, Okay, people in Chicago, this
is what you that's what you voted for.
Speaker 10 (16:51):
You don't have schools, you don't have health care. Yeah
you can't.
Speaker 12 (16:54):
I mean, you can't like live because there's people coming
in jumping the line, and it's just not fair. You
just can't jump the line. And you know, we're asking
people to wait in line and right and be a
part of our.
Speaker 5 (17:06):
Let me let me give the representative a chance to respond.
Speaker 2 (17:09):
Yeah, jumping in line.
Speaker 11 (17:10):
This rhetoric is at some point enough is going to
have to be enough, you know, right, wrong or indifferent.
I hope this administration comes with a substantial policy to
address what's happening at the border. Inten the current president
intentionally chose not to allow the bill that Senator Lankfort
was bringing forward in Oklahoma to the floor of the Senate,
(17:32):
which is incredibly problematic. And we have to get beyond
this rhetoric of talking jumping the border or jumping the
fences and all these things. These are people who are
trying to find a better life, no different than those
who came to Evansville in the early eighteen hundreds who
became industry titans and tycoons. That is the same thing
that can happen in this new industrial revolution that needs
(17:53):
to take place.
Speaker 2 (17:54):
Every place you go to is in need of workers.
Who's coming through those doors.
Speaker 11 (17:58):
It's people who are looking for an opportunity, not a handout,
not a not a not a not some free government subsidy.
They're wanting to work. And for those families who are
here and working every single day, who are having to
work mandatory over time because there aren't enough people and
there's a line of hundreds of people who are wanting
to work, who are here legally. Something has to be done.
(18:20):
The time is now and we have to get beyond
this rhetoric. This is we are a country that is
built on on on hard work and doing things the
right way. This is the opportunity right now to do
what is right, and having this rhetoric without anything of
substance is further furtherly kicking the can, continuing continuing the can.
Speaker 2 (18:40):
Down the road. We have to do something right now.
Speaker 11 (18:41):
So I hope the Lieutenant governor puts a plan in
place and wants to bring some substantial policy forward that
addresses immigrant immigration at the core.
Speaker 15 (18:50):
Uh.
Speaker 1 (18:51):
Let me go to the phones and James is in Newbern,
North Carolina. James, what do you think about Trump's immigration
and deportation plan.
Speaker 16 (19:02):
Well, I guess I'm different from most of the other
people that have been calling in because I'm a bit younger.
I'm in my early twenties, and for me, it kind
of feels like a breath of fresh air because all
my life, every presidential, governor senatorial election, I've always heard
these I've always seen those, you know, generic ads, the
legal immigrants taking jobs, But in my own life, having
(19:22):
come of my own age politically, I guess if you
can call it that, I just feel like it's a
breath of fresh air. If someone's finally doing something. If
Tough has shown anything, is that you really just can
do something or anything, you can at least change the
world somewhat. And beyond that, I think that the argument
that we need a legal immigrants to just staff all
these jobs it's I don't know, I don't know how
(19:43):
to say this, but it's bourgeois, its capitalistic. It feels
like what we have to bring in and import all
these people just so that American corporations can keep paying lower,
lower wages, so they don't actually have to hire anyone,
so we don't have to actually provide any benefits, so
they don't have to man up and actually start paying well,
it just feels like, I don't know, at that point,
America just feels like a parasite sucking at the youth
(20:04):
and labor of the world, and that doesn't feel right
at all.
Speaker 1 (20:07):
James, let me just ask you one follow up question,
which is I mean you say that you know, the
corporations would have to pay more, would have to pay
higher wages if they were to hire American workers to.
Speaker 5 (20:15):
Do some of these jobs.
Speaker 1 (20:17):
Would you be willing to pay more at the grocery
store or more for things that you buy if they
pass those costs on to you, the consumer?
Speaker 16 (20:26):
I mean, I'm already paying more at the grocery store
and everywhere.
Speaker 1 (20:30):
Yeah, okay, great, James, thank you very much. And you
can't buy eggs these days at the grocery store. I
cannot find them there out, Lieutenant Governor, What do you
think about about what James said there?
Speaker 10 (20:40):
No, I agree with him.
Speaker 12 (20:41):
I think it's kind of promoting crony capitalism when you say, well,
we need these immigrant workers so we can just you know,
keep these corporations, you know, breaking in the profits.
Speaker 10 (20:54):
And I think he's right on.
Speaker 12 (20:55):
I think I think there's what I'm saying is exactly
what James is saying. Let's just give it a shot,
because it seems like everything else we've been doing for
the last twenty thirty years isn't working. And you know,
I would tell I would. I think it would be
hard to sit here and say what I heard represented
the burdens. Say to the family of let's say Lake
and Riley, right, We've got and we've got families in
(21:16):
Indiana that have been that have been hurt by by
immigrants who have done violent crimes to their family as well.
And so what do you tell those families. It's like,
it's not that big of a deal. Now, well it
was to them, and God forbid it happens to anybody else.
Speaker 10 (21:29):
But but we're not doing our job.
Speaker 12 (21:32):
Protecting our first priority, which is the citizens of this nation.
No no parent would ever say I'm going to sacrifice
my child's well being for my neighbor's kid. And while
we're called to be good neighbors, we're not called to
sacrifice our own children's well being for that of the
of the kid the kids down the street. We have
a primary obligation to take care of who God has
(21:53):
given us first and foremost, and that's that's under our stewardship.
And so as as a nation, we have to primarily
care for our citizen's first and foremost, so that we
then can be good.
Speaker 10 (22:03):
Neighbors to the rest of the world.
Speaker 12 (22:05):
But when our house is on fire, there's no way
we're going to be able to be good neighbors. And
I think that's what Trump is doing, is he's getting
back into control so we can actually compassionately care for
people and be a good neighbor to the rest of
the world.
Speaker 1 (22:18):
Let's go to Nick, who's in my hometown of Urbana, Illinois. Nick,
Welcome to the middle.
Speaker 17 (22:22):
Go ahead, Hello, are you there?
Speaker 18 (22:25):
Can you hear me?
Speaker 5 (22:26):
Yeah? Go ahead?
Speaker 10 (22:28):
All right?
Speaker 13 (22:28):
Yeah. So I just wanted to talk about there was a.
Speaker 18 (22:30):
Case here in Urbana that just happened. There was somebody
who had gotten in a car accident and it killed
two people right by.
Speaker 16 (22:41):
The hospital here.
Speaker 18 (22:42):
And then this guy turns out he had already been
deported once they found him. He was trying to get.
Speaker 16 (22:48):
To Mexico, back to where he's at fifteen.
Speaker 18 (22:52):
So I guess my thing is is like, Okay, we're
going to deport these people, but if they're truly violent criminals, One,
are we going to prosecute them for what they've done here?
In this case, this guy is getting extradited back to Illinois.
And Two, I mean, if he's been deported already and
he's come back, and what are we doing to keep
(23:15):
them from coming back? Like we're just going to raise
off the more security we put in there, so essentially
the people with better finances can come. But so yeah,
I guess I just want to understand a little better,
like how that system's going to work.
Speaker 1 (23:33):
That good question, Nick, thanks for calling a representative Burton,
putting aside the fact that I think the statistics do
show that undocumented immigrants commit crimes at lower levels than
just regular old American citizens, but they obviously get in
the news.
Speaker 5 (23:49):
Just like Nick has talked about Lake and Riley.
Speaker 1 (23:51):
When it happens, it really upsets people, and especially when
somebody's been deported and they came back in or they
didn't leave and then they commit a crime like that
and somebody dies.
Speaker 2 (24:00):
Yes, and.
Speaker 11 (24:03):
It is we have to do something, We have to
address it. I'm not, by any means that I'm not
saying that those who commit crimes should.
Speaker 2 (24:11):
Not be held accountable for what it is that they do.
Speaker 11 (24:13):
They absolutely should a deported and however, however the law
plays out that That is my stance on that. But
we also can't go around assuming that someone looks different
than us is automatically a criminal. And I think the
criminalization of immigration is part of the problem. And I
hope that once a plan is established to those who
(24:35):
are committing crimes here, yes, be a held accountable for
those crimes committed here, and those who are here illegally
identify that process.
Speaker 2 (24:43):
And put it on.
Speaker 11 (24:44):
There's been a whole lot of rhetoric and not a
whole lot of action and necessary steps. Now, granted, the
administration is incredibly new. I know they're working through those processes.
But I also am oddly aware that whether you're live
in Brown County, Indiana or Vanderberg County, our public safety
officials are un staffed, overworked, and that cannot be on
the burden. That cannot be an added burden to them
(25:04):
as well.
Speaker 5 (25:05):
Tolliver some one I want.
Speaker 4 (25:08):
I also want to point out that there's two Illinois
and there's two Indianas. This is the most Middleist episode
ever had geographically.
Speaker 10 (25:15):
Okay, so Paul, we're calling Woosiers.
Speaker 4 (25:18):
Okay, don't tell them, I said, see now, it's a war.
Speaker 2 (25:26):
Remember that absolutely.
Speaker 10 (25:27):
I do.
Speaker 19 (25:28):
Remember.
Speaker 4 (25:29):
Paul in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania says, here in Pittsburgh, some neighbor
are sorry. Nearby towns have shrinking populations in recent decades,
and we would benefit from an influx of immigrants, please
send them our way.
Speaker 3 (25:39):
Uh.
Speaker 4 (25:39):
Eugene and hoffin the state says this plan fails to
address the root cause of most ilegal immigration. People don't
just leave their homes across miles of perilous terrain and
pay their life savings to smugglers just so they can
live a life of luxury free loading. And here's one
I've seen a lot online, this latest one. I despise
Donald Trump, but I totally support all deportation of illegals,
and I think we should immediately begin the is to
(26:00):
amend the Constitution to stop birthrights citizens.
Speaker 1 (26:05):
Yeah, well, we know that he tried to do that
by executive order and that's been put on hold by
a judge. Let's go to Shane, who's in Houston, Texas. Shane,
welcome to the middle of your thoughts on the deportation.
Speaker 3 (26:21):
Well, thanks for having me for one, and I work
in the trades. I'm a cabinet maker here in Houston.
There's a lot of competition. Very many of those are
not legal citizens, which you know, basically I'm saying, I
am directly impacted by it all the time, and I
know very well in new construction and remodeling if you
(26:45):
take away the let's just say illegal, non registered, not
trying to get a license, not trying to get citizenship,
that's only going to push up everything else. I'm not
an economist anything else, but I would like to say
this as far as the gentleman on there who was
talking about, you know, we want to we want to
(27:06):
welcome you through the front door. I'm very good friends
with a couple who have been together for fourteen years.
She is from England. She's been back and forth here
for the last fourteen years. They got married six years ago.
She's been trying for twelve years. I had to send
pictures of them together from some event long ago, and
she still doesn't have her citizenship. These are, you know, right,
(27:30):
well to do you know they've got money, like, they're
still struggling. So how can somebody who really needs it,
who's trying to get out of desperate situations the expecutors
walk through the front door anyway?
Speaker 1 (27:42):
Thank you guys, Yeah, thank you so much, Lieutenant government
to let you take that. I guess there's two things there,
one about the just the cost of things going up,
but the other is like the legal process is very
onerous and takes a long time.
Speaker 10 (27:53):
Sure, so break the law. I guess that's the solution, right.
Speaker 5 (27:56):
Well, or it takes that part of.
Speaker 12 (27:58):
It well, And I think that's what people have to recognize.
It's like, what that caller just was saying is like,
it's okay to break the law in some cases. Now,
if we all get to decide when it's okay to
break the law, then okay, that's fine. Let's just be
consistent and let everybody decide when it's okay to break
the law, or we uphold the law right and we
just say nobody's above the law. And I think it's
(28:21):
a very dangerous slippery slope. And we say, well, you know,
it's hard to go through the process. And I'm not
saying that the process is perfect and it needs to
be reformed, But how can we expect to reform a
process when we're already underwater with the thirteen million illegals
that have come through the back door, Like, of course
we're not going to be able to open that front
door as wide as we want it to be because
(28:42):
we're trying to stay above water with you know, caring
for these thirteen million that we don't even know how
they got here and can we talk about the three
hundred thousand missing children that we still don't know. I'm
our church that I'm a part of has a big
heart for ending human trafficking, and what has happened in
the last few years with these children that have been
trafficked is absolutely just heartbreaking. And so you know, we're
(29:07):
creating this terrible problem just because we're not willing to say, hey,
follow our laws and if you break our laws, there's consequences.
But and we get callers like that, they just gotta say, well,
it's okay to break the law, but then it creates
a hundred other problems in its way.
Speaker 5 (29:22):
How would you respond to that, Representer Burton?
Speaker 11 (29:24):
Yeah, my fear, like I said earlier, is that this
is just a talking point and its rhetoric with no
substance behind it. If we're truly going to take care
of hoosiers in our case, then we need to address housing,
We need to make sure that those who are in
school can read by the time they're in third grade,
and we also need to address our health care situation.
Speaker 1 (29:44):
So you're saying that this is just not an important
issue for you. What's nice immigration?
Speaker 2 (29:48):
It is, It's equally important.
Speaker 11 (29:50):
But as a Lieutenant governor mentioned that he's going to
focus on that, the focus needs to be on taking
care of America. If we're going to do that, then
we surely can address the issues that I just mentioned.
But if not, this is another thing that we need
to add to the long list, the laundry list of
things that have to be solved. And we can't just
talk about immigration from the standpoint of people are here,
I don't want them in my backyard. They need to
(30:11):
follow the process. People are here, and good luck to
whatever agencies want to be responsible for. Why not set
up offices like TSA is in every airport, set up
offices so those who are here get them through legally.
Let's get the process on so at least have a
starting point. But to just mention it and talk about
the same talking points that have been echoed throughout the
campaign and randomly mentioned Chicago, Let's do something.
Speaker 1 (30:33):
About it, you know, Tolliver, one of the questions about
doing something about it right.
Speaker 5 (30:38):
Now involves how do you do it?
Speaker 1 (30:40):
What if you send somebody back to a country that
won't take them, then where do they go?
Speaker 10 (30:46):
You know?
Speaker 5 (30:47):
How do you just logistically do it?
Speaker 1 (30:50):
Few figures are going to be more central to that
effort than Trump's new borders are.
Speaker 5 (30:56):
Who is Tom Homan?
Speaker 2 (30:58):
I thought you were going to ask me how to
do it? Got so scared.
Speaker 4 (31:03):
That's right here he is on CBS IS sixty minutes
in November with correspondent Cecilia Bega, on.
Speaker 20 (31:09):
The heels of his historic illegal immigration crisis that has
to be done.
Speaker 4 (31:15):
What would the largest deportation in American history look like
to you?
Speaker 20 (31:21):
Well, let me tell you what's not going to be. First,
it's not going to be a mass sweep of neighborhoods.
It's not going to be building concentration camps. I've read
it all. It's ridiculous.
Speaker 4 (31:31):
But if mass deportation is not going to be, as
you said, massive sweeps and concentration.
Speaker 5 (31:36):
Camp, what is it. It'll be targeted arrest targeted arrests, arrests. Yeah,
what does that mean?
Speaker 1 (31:43):
Well, that's me I guess that's what the Lieutenant government
was talking about earlier. We'll be right back with more
of your calls coming up on the middle. This is
the middle. I'm Jeremy Hobson coming to you from w
NI in in Evansville, Indiana.
Speaker 5 (31:55):
This week, and.
Speaker 1 (31:56):
We're talking about Trump's deportation program, which is now way.
You can call us at eight four four four Middle
that's eight four four four six four three three five three,
or you can reach out at listen Toothmiddle dot com.
I am joined by Indiana Democratic state Representative Alex Burton
and the state's Republican Lieutenant Governor, Micah beckwith and let's
go right back to the phones and Nicole, who is
in Saint Louis, Missouri. Nicole, welcome to the Middle, Go.
Speaker 21 (32:18):
Ahead, Hi, thanks for having me. So, I just wanted
to say that I am actually married to a foreigner
and we have been trying to get his green card
for two and a half years, and we've been separated
for most of that time because he can't get into
the country. And I have absolutely no resentment for anybody
(32:44):
who came here anyway they could, because the process is
so long and expensive, and people who are in horrible
circumstances don't have ten years to wait for a non
marriage green card. And then on the the point of
(33:05):
them trying to come here legally, we have so many
people at the border who were trying to come through
legally with the apps that for making corol appointments that
were shut down.
Speaker 5 (33:19):
They were just shut down the other day.
Speaker 21 (33:21):
Yeah, so you can't say come in legally and then
shut down their only route to do that.
Speaker 5 (33:27):
I think the go ahead, Nicole.
Speaker 21 (33:32):
I think the mass deportation plan is a terrible idea.
I think it's cruel, and I think it will damage
our approbably Okay, and I don't think.
Speaker 1 (33:42):
That we've got it, Thank you so much. And a
Lieutenant governor just you can hear the desperation there in
Nichole's voice, and you just think about people, whether they're
coming for love or they're coming for to get away
from terrible circumstances. They're going to do what they need
to do for their own lives. And a lot of
people clearly are going to take huge risks to their
(34:04):
own safety in order to get to the United States.
Speaker 10 (34:07):
Yeah. I mean it's again heartbreaking. Right. It's not that
there's not compassion for her and you know her I
guess boyfriend or husband.
Speaker 12 (34:19):
But the question that I go back to is, all right, fine,
if we don't want to uphold our law, then that's fine.
We can pick and choose laws, but just be consistent,
Like if she gets to pick and choose the law.
She says she has no she has no disdain for
anyone who tries to get here however they can. It's like, okay, fine,
well then you can't tell someone else when they break
the law that it might be a different law.
Speaker 10 (34:39):
But they I mean, that's okay. Then. So we're either
a nation of laws or we're not.
Speaker 12 (34:44):
And I think we have to reform, Like I think
we should reform how our immigration process is. And it's
a really long line, I get it, but we can't
even begin to do that because it's so broken on
the back end. You're not going to be able to
reform the front end. So I appreciate President Trump. I
appreciate that there's finally action being being taken and we.
Speaker 1 (35:06):
Are you Are you upset that he stopped that bill,
you know, from passing, that quite conservative bill from passing
last year? And are you upset that he shut down
the CPB one app that was sort of allowed a
pathway for people to have their appointments.
Speaker 12 (35:19):
No, because CBU one app was being abused like big time.
It wasn't really doing much every I mean there are
multiple reports that it didn't. It just essentially let people
in here and they weren't coming back for their court dates.
Their court dates were years down the road. It was
just getting them into the country. So there's that and.
Speaker 10 (35:34):
The Langford Bill.
Speaker 12 (35:35):
Last year, multiple reports of of border patrol agents and
unions were were saying it's not going to do anything,
and that's why President Trump fought against it. They it
wasn't a good bill that was actually going to accomplish
the mission of securing the border, and it was just
a it was a political stunt that was trying to
be done on by the Biden administration to say no,
(35:56):
we're trying to do something.
Speaker 1 (35:58):
And uh well, he was one of the most concerned
members of the Senate that was sort of the man
behind it was.
Speaker 12 (36:02):
It was it was James Langford, and he's he was
not he's not one of the most conservative. But but
all that to say, even Tom Holman came out and said,
this bill isn't isn't going to do anything.
Speaker 10 (36:13):
So again, now we're seeing action.
Speaker 12 (36:16):
I think the last four days of the Trump administration,
we're seeing people arrested that are that have broken the law,
that are violent criminals, and I think, you know, let's
let's try it like I said earlier, it hasn't been
working for the last twenty years.
Speaker 10 (36:30):
I'm ready to try.
Speaker 1 (36:31):
To see what happens here. Yeah, let's go to Austin,
who is in Houston, Texas. Austin, welcome to the middle
of your thoughts about the deportation.
Speaker 19 (36:40):
Yeah.
Speaker 17 (36:40):
Now, I'm just going to echo what some other callers
have said. But I see one side sort of failing
to recognize the impact of citizens and services and crimes
that the influx of you know, illegal immigrants has had.
And then I see the other side having sort of
a knee jerk reaction. You know, either you broke the
law or you didn't. Then what I would like to
(37:02):
see is, you know, acknowledgement that we all want those
who have a desire to be here legally and are
good for our country to be here. And I feel
that if you have a knee jerk reaction of a
mass deportation before you address the root cause, which is
an easier and more efficient way to citizenship, then it's
(37:23):
going to cause some problems. We've got a I'm pretty
in line with President Trump on most things, but you know,
I've got a landscaper and a housekeeper that are both illegal,
and I've been trying to get citizenship for a long
time and I don't want them to be wrapped up
in that. Before we have a knee jerk reaction, we
(37:45):
need to understand what the problem is. I think it
is sort of an excuse that we can't fix the
front end before we fix the back end. We can
get that started. We can give a grace period for
if you need to begin your citizenship quest, and then
after that, if you're still not willing to do things
the right way and break the law, then we're gonna
(38:05):
kick me out. But we are.
Speaker 1 (38:07):
You think it's you think it's n what's happening right now? Austin,
thank you for that. Representative Burton your response.
Speaker 11 (38:14):
Yeah, thank you so much, Austin for your for your comments.
And and I am very much of the ground. I
know it probably sounds a little odd, but but I do.
I am in the business of solving problems, not just
having these talking points. And what you just mentioned is
is incredibly factual.
Speaker 2 (38:31):
Whether Senator Langford's bill was was.
Speaker 11 (38:34):
Golden or not, it was at least the starting point
that would have had the conversation. And sure there would
have been some arguing back and forth and debating back
and forth about how to best implement.
Speaker 2 (38:44):
But something is better than nothing.
Speaker 11 (38:46):
Right now, there's a whole lot of talking and a
whole lot of big ideas, but the EmPATH implementation is
going to be very It's going to be straining on
those who are actually going to have to carry out,
whether it's raise or risk deportations, all of that. We
have to have some sense about it and creating some
sort of a pathway. Right, those at the border so
(39:08):
had the opportunity to find their citizenship. Those who have
been in refugee camps for more than eighteen years should
have had continued their pathway onto landing in the United States. Right,
they're the most vetted persons that could ever be well.
Speaker 1 (39:20):
And by the way, Lieutenant Governor, some of those people
that were supposed to come on refugee planes were people
that helped the United States in Afghanistan whose lives are
at risk.
Speaker 5 (39:29):
Like, do you have a problem with that?
Speaker 1 (39:30):
I mean, these are people that we sort of made
a promise to as a country and then you know,
pulled the ticket.
Speaker 5 (39:36):
Out the last minute.
Speaker 12 (39:37):
No, I mean I think we should have gone out
of our way to help them get citizenship. And I
think there's in cases like that where you've you've really
served the United States overseas and you need refugee status.
That's different is that's not what we're talking about. We're
talking about people who knowingly come across our border illegally.
Speaker 10 (39:55):
They're breaking our laws.
Speaker 12 (39:56):
Like there's ways to help those who have helped us,
and there's ways to help those that want to be helped.
Speaker 10 (40:02):
But again, when you break the law, we don't know
you're here and we can't help you.
Speaker 12 (40:05):
And I guess you know, I'll maybe put it back
on Representative Burton a little bit is if you're okay
with this, I mean, then do you open up your
house and just say anybody's welcome to come at any point?
And we we kind of make this a big picture
where it's like, well they can just come in, it's
not gonna matter. And it's like, well, okay, do you
live that way in your own home? No, we lock
our doors. We make sure we know who's in our house.
(40:27):
We don't want some strangers just walking in. And and
so I hear this inconsistent kind of your rhetoric. On
one side's like we got to be open and loving
to all people. But then well, when it comes to
my city or my house or my stuff, don't touch that.
So it's just not consistent. If we're going to be consistent,
let's be consistent across you know, all levels.
Speaker 5 (40:46):
What's your response to that.
Speaker 11 (40:48):
Yeah, I absolutely agree. We have to be consistent, and
there is no consistency. On one hand, refugees are welcome,
others are not. Well, if refugees are are are welcome
here who have helped us, then let's sign a joint
letter to the to all the refugee agencies and in
support of refugees still coming to.
Speaker 2 (41:07):
The United States. We can't, we can't just we have
to do something.
Speaker 11 (41:12):
And and yes, I understand taking care of of what's
here in the United States, that is absolutely important. We
have to we have to take care of our own household,
right And and.
Speaker 5 (41:21):
Well what about that?
Speaker 1 (41:22):
What about his point about you know, would you open
up your your own doors and sort of leave them
open and say come on in and stay with me.
Speaker 2 (41:28):
Yeah, no, there's a process.
Speaker 11 (41:30):
I'm not gonna invite strangers in to stay with my family.
But at the same time, those coming in through the
process have been vetted. These are not people who are
randomly selected to come in.
Speaker 5 (41:43):
If you're you're talking about refugee.
Speaker 11 (41:45):
If you're in a refugee cam, you're you are you are,
you are vetted to the degree. For those who have
found their way here undocumented, yes, there still needs to
be a process. Even if you are you found your
way to Indiana when you pass them through several states
before you get here. If they found their way to Indiana,
there's a reason why they came here.
Speaker 1 (42:07):
Let me get to another call. Robert is in Atlanta, Georgia. Robert,
welcome to the middle. Your thoughts on the deportation program?
Speaker 3 (42:14):
Hey, how you doing?
Speaker 15 (42:15):
Can you hear me? Okay, Hey, Jeremy, thanks so much
for the program irregularly. First thing I want to prompt
we have my comments by letting you know that I
am a conservative Democrat and unluckily Vice President Harris's it
did not win because you know, Biden dragged this on
(42:37):
the way too long. So let's just talk about one
aspect that it was really important. While I was waiting,
I looked at the usc OJ website. Really in regard
to his spanis center m jail And I'm not just taking
on this Spanish because there's a whole lot of people
from a whole lot of countries that are in our
jail system. In our jail system, if you have one
(42:57):
prisoner in jail cost the US payer roughly fifty I
think fifty thousand per person per year. USDUJ website says,
and I just held a picture on it may lead
it to this is today DJ. Let me see Dave
shows that ninety four percent of confirmed aliens in calcerated
(43:20):
in federal euro president in the United States martial service
facilities are unlawfully present in the United States. Okay, so
we've got.
Speaker 5 (43:30):
So you're saying, we've got it.
Speaker 1 (43:31):
We've got a lot of a lot of undocumented immigrants
in our prisons. That's costing money.
Speaker 5 (43:34):
That's your point.
Speaker 15 (43:36):
Well, not only that, but that is the easy This
is easy pickings for Trump. So if if ninety five percent,
we'll say, are you illegally there? They're already in the
prison system, they're already costing a fifty thousand a year.
That's a big, big one.
Speaker 5 (43:53):
Why not just deport those people first?
Speaker 15 (43:55):
You're saying, Okay, that's the that's the first point. Here's
the point.
Speaker 1 (43:58):
Well, yeah, let me let me take that because we've
got limited time. Let me take that to the Lieutenant governor.
You know, there's a there's a big question about the
detention of these people.
Speaker 5 (44:07):
Private prisons are.
Speaker 1 (44:09):
Chopping at the bit to be able to get the
contracts and be able to detain some of the people.
Speaker 9 (44:14):
But what about the just the cost of detaining people
who are here in this country illegally.
Speaker 10 (44:19):
Yeah, I mean I think it's a real problem.
Speaker 12 (44:22):
Every illegal immigrant that comes across is going to put
a drain on our system. And that's that's the point.
Whether it's in our jails, whether it's in our schools,
whether it's in our hospitals, and we just don't have
the unlimited funds or the bandwidth to take care of
the whole world. I wish we did. I mean, listen,
I would love to help every single person in the world.
I hate to see suffering anywhere, but we don't. And
(44:44):
if we don't take care of our own house first,
our own our own nation first, we will not be
able to be a good neighbor. This is just practical
life skills. I mean, you got to make sure you're
taking care. I mean, that's why when the when the
mask drops.
Speaker 10 (44:57):
Down on the airplane.
Speaker 12 (44:58):
They always say, put your mask on for so that
you can help other people. And what we're doing is
we're we're rejecting our mask and say well, we can
help everyone else, and it's killing us. And and that's
that's the concern that I have. So I agree it
is draining our system.
Speaker 1 (45:13):
Kelsey is in San Antonio, Texas. Kelsey, Welcome to the
middle of your thoughts on the deportation program.
Speaker 19 (45:20):
First of all, I want to thank Representative Burton for
recognizing that this is a lot of dehumanization of people.
And I want to ask a question, as a clergy
member and as a public school teacher, what's going to
happen to the kids. We're talking about deporting parents and
(45:42):
ripping apart families and ending birthright citizenship, and we will
have kids without families to go home to no idea
that their parents are gone, and they're going home to
an empty house. They're going home to trauma. They have
no idea what is going on. We're talking about raids
and churches and raids and schools. I can't do my
(46:06):
job if I know that my students can't learn. I
can't preach if they are constantly my people are constantly
worried about their safety and their families. If you're a
person of faith, I mean, Jesus talked about caring for
the orphan and the widow, and the stranger and the foreigner.
(46:27):
And if that's what we're supposed to do, yes, we
need to take care of our house first. But if
we're using this as an excuse to not take care
of our house because we have all of these programs
that we're talking about, oh, well, we need to take
care of veterans, but we're not doing that. We're making
illegal immigration a huge issue and not taking care of
other things. But really, I'm worried about the kids because
(46:50):
that's who I work with most.
Speaker 1 (46:51):
Yeah, Kelsey, thank you very much. I'll go to your
representative Burton. It's a good point. I mean I'm thinking
about I asked the Lieutenant governor earlier about you know,
the idea of going into schools and churches, But what
about that? What kind of a trauma does it leave
on people, on the kids in the school if the
if you know, their friend gets deported or their friends'
parents or their parents get deported.
Speaker 11 (47:12):
Yeah, that's incredibly problematic here in Indiana when more than
forty percent of the immigrant population, our children. I have
to give a shout out to Bowling Green, Kentucky because
they have done a phenomenal job of working with the
school system and creating a program for those who are
not new to America, and it is helping them.
Speaker 2 (47:33):
If they've came to the.
Speaker 11 (47:34):
United States at age sixteen, they're able to take courses
and it was passed through the Kentucky legislature where they're
able to get services up until they're twenty one. Indiana
doesn't have anything along those lines, and so there's an
opportunity and we're missing We're missing it because we were
letting this rhetoric control no substance. And if there's going
(47:57):
to be some stubstance, we can address housing and address
our educational system, and we can address address our healthcare issues.
We're not doing any of the above. We're just saying
we have a problem. And I'm gonna stand on my
box and I'm gonn continue talking about immigration, immigration, and
I'm not going to have anything substantive to bring to
the table to actually solve the problem.
Speaker 1 (48:15):
I'm going to give you the last where we're running.
We've run out of time, but I'm going to give
you the last word, Lieutenant Govenor, and I just want
to ask you this something that hasn't come up so
much this hour, but it is a question on a
lot of people's minds. It's sort of a bigger picture
question about this, which is how do we deal with
the idea of like that the US, the image of
America around the world gets seen as racist xenophobic for
(48:36):
for you know, carrying out this deportation program, even if
some of it is sort of like just to be
in front of the cameras to make a point.
Speaker 5 (48:43):
What about that? Are you worried about that at all?
Speaker 10 (48:46):
Oh? No, not at all.
Speaker 12 (48:47):
I mean, listen, we got to do what's right. If
we can stand before God and say we did what's right,
then that's what I'm concerned with. And to your caller
that invoked, you know, her clergy background, I also am
a part of right here from pastor, that's what I do.
And uh, you know, Romans thirteen says that the government
does not bear the sword in vain, and so when
you're breaking laws, God does not give you the right
(49:09):
to break a law unless it violates his law. And
the immigration law does not violate God's law. God is
a set up sovereign borders. He told nations you have
you have sovereign borders to protect. So so I think
I'm not worried about the image. I think if we
do what's right, I think that will actually supersede and
win the end of the day. And listen, people throw
(49:30):
around words like racist and xenophobic all the time. Those
words don't really carry much weight in my book anymore
because they get used.
Speaker 10 (49:38):
I mean, I get called that when I.
Speaker 12 (49:40):
Eat a Chick fil A, right, and people say, you're, well,
you know something for supporting Chick fil A.
Speaker 10 (49:45):
So we just got to do what's right.
Speaker 5 (49:47):
Okay, that's why we have to leave it there.
Speaker 1 (49:50):
I will say Tolliver's data is also was also a pastor, So.
Speaker 5 (49:54):
There's a lot of a lot of a lot of
in this room.
Speaker 1 (49:57):
I want to thank my guest so much, Indiana Democratic
State of Sresenative Alex Burton and Republican Lieutenant Governor.
Speaker 5 (50:02):
Micha beck With.
Speaker 9 (50:02):
Really appreciate both of you coming on the show this evening.
Speaker 10 (50:06):
Thank you appreciate it.
Speaker 1 (50:08):
And next week we're gonna be diving into foreign policy
as we take your questions about the Middle East with
our guests Barham Sala, the former president of Iraq, Tolliver.
Speaker 5 (50:16):
That's our first world leader.
Speaker 4 (50:18):
Well you don't think I'm a world leader, Jeremy outs Man.
As always, you can call in at eight four four
four Middle that's eight four four four six four three
three five three, or you can reach out to listen
to the Middle dot com. You can also sign up
for our free weekly newsletter, and don't forget to check
out our brand new video podcast on YouTube.
Speaker 2 (50:33):
We can watch us as well.
Speaker 10 (50:33):
As hear us.
Speaker 1 (50:34):
Thanks this week to Kent McDonald, Tim Black, Jason Yezer,
and Todd Donaldson here at W and I and I'm
Jeremy Hobson and I will talk to you next week
Host
Jeremy Hobson
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