July 19, 2024 • 49 mins
On this episode of The Middle we're asking you: what can we do to improve the tone of our political rhetoric? We're joined by former Montana Governor Steve Bullock, and Courtney Hope Britt, Chair of the College Republican National Committee - as well as The Middle's house DJ Tolliver. #election #rhetoric #2024 #extremism #Trump #Biden #JDVance #RNC #assassinationattempt
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
The Middle is supported by Journalism Funding Partners, a nonprofit
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how you can support the Middle at listen to Themiddle
dot com.
Speaker 2 (00:19):
Welcome to the Middle.
Speaker 1 (00:20):
I'm Jeremy Hobson, joined by our house DJ Tolliver and
Tolliver I want to welcome the listeners this week of
KUOW in Seattle and KPBS in San Diego.
Speaker 2 (00:29):
And what a week it has been.
Speaker 3 (00:31):
I know, man, I thought you say, we're going to
have summers off. Come on, This isn't what I signed
up for.
Speaker 1 (00:36):
I honestly did not think that the campaign would be
as crazy as it is right now in the month
of July. And I keep reminding myself it's only July.
But just let's just think about this. In the last
two months, we've had former President Trump's convictions in the
New York hush money trial, President Biden's disastrous debate performance,
an assassination attempt on former President Trump, a vice presidential
(00:58):
nominee selection, and big questions about whether Biden will stay
in the race. And again, it's only July. A lot
is going to happen between now and November. But the
assassination attempt was the latest example of violence in our politics.
There was, of course, the attack on the husband of
former House Speaker Nancy Pelosi in twenty twenty two. There
(01:19):
was the attack on Congressman Steve Scalise in twenty seventeen,
the attack on former Congresswoman Gabby Giffords back in twenty eleven,
and of course the attack on the Capitol on January sixth,
twenty twenty one. So what needs to change in our politics?
And is it still possible to talk about the stakes
in the upcoming election while not demonizing political opponents. That
(01:41):
is our question this hour, Tolliver. What is the number
for people to call in?
Speaker 3 (01:45):
It's eight four four four Middle. That's eight four four
four sixty four three three five three, or you can
write to us that listen to the Middle dot com.
Speaker 1 (01:51):
And before we introduced our panel last week on the show,
we asked you what you're doing about your phone addictions.
It was a fascinating conversation.
Speaker 2 (01:59):
Here's what some you had to say.
Speaker 4 (02:01):
Hi, this is Richard from Cleveland.
Speaker 2 (02:04):
Hi.
Speaker 5 (02:04):
This is Renee from Nashville, Tennessee.
Speaker 6 (02:07):
This is David Shenk.
Speaker 7 (02:08):
I live in South Bend, Indiana.
Speaker 8 (02:12):
Hi.
Speaker 3 (02:12):
My name is Johannah Walker, and I'm listening to the
show right now.
Speaker 5 (02:15):
I'm definitely addicted to my phone, and I don't have
the answer.
Speaker 3 (02:18):
I've tried so many things.
Speaker 7 (02:20):
You name it, I've tried it.
Speaker 4 (02:23):
I have a very high amount of screen time, and
I've had that ever since I was a teenager. I'm
twenty nine right now, and a lot of my interests
have to do with doing things digitally.
Speaker 5 (02:38):
I am a mother and a family of four, and
we have two people addicted to their phones who are
currently working on be talking both of them from constantly
being on their phone, by requiring no phones at dinner,
not looking at phones in the car, noticing the landscape,
and other small changes.
Speaker 4 (02:55):
I am not addicted to my phone because I don't
have a cell phone.
Speaker 7 (02:58):
I refuse to own one and always.
Speaker 2 (03:00):
Have That must be nice. Thanks to everybody called in.
Speaker 1 (03:04):
And if you want to do something good with your phone,
you can listen to that show anytime because The Middle
is available as a podcast in partnership with iHeart Podcasts
on the iHeart app or wherever you listen to podcasts.
So now to our topic this hour, what can we
do to improve the tone of our politics while recognizing
the stakes in the upcoming election.
Speaker 2 (03:22):
Let's meet our panel.
Speaker 1 (03:23):
Joining us from Helena, Montana Democrat Steve Bullock, the former
governor of Montana.
Speaker 2 (03:28):
Governor, Welcome to the middle.
Speaker 7 (03:30):
It's great to be with you, Jeremy.
Speaker 1 (03:32):
And from Milwaukee, Wisconsin, where the Republican National Convention is
taking place, Courtney Hope Britt, who is the chair of
the College Republican National Committee.
Speaker 2 (03:40):
Courtney, welcome to you, Thanks for having me.
Speaker 1 (03:43):
And before we get to the phones, I was on
the BBC the other day and I said that there's
a tension in the air right now in the US.
Speaker 2 (03:50):
As we get closer to the election, that it's so crazy.
Speaker 1 (03:53):
We've had all these attacks in recent years on politicians,
and the BBC anchor British person obviously said to me, well,
hasn't it always been like that in America?
Speaker 2 (04:01):
Steve Bullock? Does it feel.
Speaker 1 (04:03):
Different to you right now in terms of the vitriol
in our politics?
Speaker 6 (04:08):
You know it does share me Like I even think
back when I got elected in twenty twelve. My kids
at the time were six, eight and ten. You know,
the youngest in forty years. That sort of stepped into this.
In my first stay of the state, I said, you're
going to hear different sounds coming from the state Capitol
and the residents and kids learn from our words and
(04:30):
our deeds. That's the sound of children, and we need
to start acting like they do because our kids are watching.
And I think even from that time twenty twelve to
where we.
Speaker 7 (04:41):
Are today, the level of vitriol.
Speaker 6 (04:47):
The level of an inability to say there's some commonalities
that we share, like, look, we can certainly differ on
policy and direction, but also, I guess failed in twenty sixteen,
I'd said, well, I wish people cared about public policy
(05:08):
and elections like they do right professional sports on any
given Sunday, there's millions of people watching tuned in. But
I think now people care about politics like they care
about professional sports.
Speaker 7 (05:24):
Your Raiders fan, not only do I.
Speaker 6 (05:26):
Hate you, I hate your whole fam Right now level
of division is significantly changed things.
Speaker 1 (05:33):
Courtney, what do you think your party just watched its nominee,
the former President Trump, almost get killed less than a
week ago. What do you think about the level of
vitriol right now in our politics?
Speaker 9 (05:44):
Well, I certainly don't have as many years to compare
it to, but it definitely feels like it's at some
kind of all time high. It feels like it's just
really hit a very high point where to the governor's point,
if you're a Democrat, you hate Republicans.
Speaker 10 (06:00):
If you're a Republican, you hate Democrats.
Speaker 9 (06:02):
And I think we've just lost sight of the fact
that our political opponents are not our enemies.
Speaker 10 (06:08):
They're just our rivals.
Speaker 9 (06:10):
They're fellow or fellow citizens, are just that they might
disagree with us, but at the end of the day,
we have to work together as American citizens.
Speaker 2 (06:19):
So Trump, as you know, picked JD.
Speaker 1 (06:21):
Vance as his running mate for the selection, someone who
is no stranger to using rhetoric to rile up the base.
He of course, once likened Trump to Adolf Hitler. He said,
President Biden sent the order for the assassination attempt. Courtney,
I'll start with you, how do you think that selection
is going to affect the tone of this election. It's
not the unity message that we've been hearing about at
(06:42):
the RNC so much.
Speaker 9 (06:45):
Well, I think that we've seen this sort of thing
before in vice presidential picks, being at some point in
their history at odds with the presidential nominee.
Speaker 10 (06:54):
I mean, if you.
Speaker 9 (06:54):
Look back four years ago, Vice President Harris was saying
some pretty pointed things. Now President Biden, and obviously they're
working together pretty successfully as a team. I don't think
many people question their unity and their teamwork now. So
I think that's just sort of the nature of politics
(07:16):
that people do find themselves at odd together odds at
some point in the past, and then learn to work
together in the future. So I'm not really surprised by that,
and I think we'll probably see them learn to work together.
Speaker 1 (07:30):
Steve Block, what do you think, I mean, what did
you think when you heard not just JD. Vance but
other Republicans immediately after the assassination attempt on President Trump
blame Biden's.
Speaker 6 (07:42):
Yeah, and look, let's begin with what we should all
agree on, right that that attack is horrifying, and I'm
thankful that President former President Trump as well, that they're
there should be no place for violence in our political
(08:05):
discourse or certainly taking action. But it's not you know,
it's not just immediately thereafter.
Speaker 7 (08:14):
Like even when JD. Vance last night he said they
literally shot.
Speaker 6 (08:20):
Him, Like, who is that day, you know that the
continue the initial of saying oh, or some people pointing
back and saying to the press, this is all your fault.
The initial response is of basically that Democrats or Biden did.
Speaker 7 (08:42):
That, or even last night they literally shot.
Speaker 6 (08:45):
Him, like there used to be moments where we could
come together with unity.
Speaker 7 (08:53):
And at this point when.
Speaker 6 (08:56):
It becomes oh, it must have been them supposed to
saying what a tragedy and thank God that he's alive.
Speaker 1 (09:04):
Well, what do you think about that, Courtney, because you
just made that point about you know that your political
opponents are not your enemies. What do you think about
when you hear Governor Bullock say jd Vance or others
were saying they shot him.
Speaker 9 (09:18):
I think it's a really interesting point, to be honest,
I hadn't thought about it in that way, and I
think you have a really good point there that it's
not so much about they one person did this. And
I think there's also something important to mention here in
that this attempt was likely not the direct result of
(09:41):
the intensity and extremism in our political discourse and rhetoric.
Speaker 10 (09:45):
Happening right now.
Speaker 9 (09:46):
I'm glad that it's bringing this topic up because I
think it's an important one for us to address. It's
something that I've personally been trying to work on for
a long time and try to be mindful of as
someone who's hyperpartisan. But I don't think that we should
conflate this situation with the political rhetoric. This was someone who,
like many other assassins before or attempted assassins, who was
(10:10):
totally unstable. It's total problems and things, but we shouldn't
be painting them, is number one. I mean, he was
a registered Republican. Number two, like, look back to the
attempted assassination on President Reagan that had nothing to do
with his policies. Like, this isn't a war general coming
up with some strategy to take someone out. This is
somebody who's.
Speaker 10 (10:31):
Not right in the head.
Speaker 9 (10:32):
And this has more pointing to our mental health crices
in the country than it is to the political rhetoric.
Though I am again glad that it is giving us
a chance to talk about it.
Speaker 1 (10:41):
You mentioned mental health. A lot of people also in
the immediate aftermath, would say it has a lot to
do with the gun issue in this country, which comes
up again and again and again. You know, Tolliver after
the assassination attempt on former President Trump. President Biden addressed
the American people a couple of times in a call
for unity.
Speaker 7 (11:01):
Yeah, that's right.
Speaker 3 (11:02):
He was actually really quick to condemn the act and
said that there's no place for violence in our society.
Speaker 11 (11:07):
Our fellow Americans, I want to speak to you tonight
about the need for us to lower the temperature in
our politics and to remember, or we may disagree, we
are not enemies. We're neighbors. We're friends, co workers, citizens,
and most importantly, we are fellow Americans. We must stand together.
(11:28):
Yesterday shooting at Donald Trump's rally in Pennsylvania calls on
all of us to take a step back, take stock
of where we are, how we go forward from here.
Speaker 1 (11:39):
President Biden speaking the other day, And by the way,
if you are a regular listener to the Middle, we
are still trying to raise the funds it takes to
do this show Toliver. People can go to Listen to
the Middle dot com and make a tax deductible contribution
in any amount, which really helps us, especially as we
get on the read. We're going to be in Birmingham
next week.
Speaker 7 (12:00):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (12:00):
Absolutely, I'll pay for some lunches or something come on.
Speaker 1 (12:02):
Right well, or like you know the things it takes
just to put the show on the air.
Speaker 2 (12:06):
Anyway, we'll be right back with more of the Middle.
Speaker 1 (12:11):
This is the Middle. I'm Jeremy Hobson. If you're just tuning,
in the Middle is a national call in show. We
are focused on elevating voices from the middle geographically, politically,
and philosophically. Or maybe you just want to meet in
the middle. This hour, we're asking you what can we
do to improve the tone of our politics while recognizing
the stakes of the upcoming election?
Speaker 2 (12:30):
Tolliver, what is the number to call in?
Speaker 3 (12:33):
It's eight four four four Middle. That's eight four four
four six four three three five three. You can also
write to us at Listen to the Middle dot com
or on social media.
Speaker 1 (12:40):
I remember when you actually had to read that number
because you didn't know it by Harvard.
Speaker 7 (12:44):
I think now you think I know it etched.
Speaker 2 (12:46):
Into your lever.
Speaker 1 (12:47):
I'm joined by former Montana Governor Steve Bullock and Courtney
Hope Britt, chair of the College Republican National Committee. Before
we go to the phones, Uh, Steve Bullock, what about
this idea of recognizing this stakes of this election? Is
it okay for Democrats to say that Trump is an
authoritarian or it could be the end of democracy if
(13:08):
he's elected.
Speaker 6 (13:11):
Yeah, Jeremy, look at how do we get back to
the center, or how do we tone things down. If
we could actually agree on certain norms right, norms like
the rule of law, norms like.
Speaker 7 (13:27):
Respect for elections, things that have served us well two
hundred and fifty years.
Speaker 6 (13:34):
For the last two hundred and fifty years, I think
we would get a lot closer. But part of the
challenge is, like, from my perspective, that's not really the
heat in the politics. It is a real issue when
we say democracy is on the ballot, when you know
a third of the members of Congress one hundred and
(13:57):
seventy members from thirty seven or thirty eight states are
denying the results of last election, or when the president's
campaign manager, Chris Civita, even earlier today said this is
an over on election day, this is over on inauguration day.
Speaker 7 (14:16):
So I think that we need to be talking about subjects.
We need to be talking about what the stakes of
this election are.
Speaker 6 (14:23):
We ought to be actually saying Project twenty twenty five,
here are its elements.
Speaker 7 (14:31):
This is a proposed game plan for day one.
Speaker 6 (14:37):
And if we're not doing that, we're not having an
honest conversation. That's not to scare people. That's just like,
this is what's out there.
Speaker 2 (14:44):
Courtney, what do you think?
Speaker 1 (14:45):
And I'm just going to throw it to you with
a line that is used often against Democrats. Trump has
called Democrats Marxists and communists and says immigrants are poisoning
the blood of our country. Is that rhetoric acceptable if
we I want to tone things down because let's be
or not in you know, ninety nine percent of Democrats
(15:08):
in this country are not Marxists and communists.
Speaker 9 (15:12):
You're absolutely right, just like ninety nine percent of Republicans
aren't crazy either. But there you know, there's fringe on
both sides. That's very real. And this point of this
whole show is the middle, Like the majority of America's
in the middle, and they've been abandoned. We need to
find them again. I do want to kean on something
that was brought up Project twenty twenty five, just to
(15:33):
mention that this isn't something that has been put forward.
First of all, it's not something that's new. It's something
that Heritage does every every time there's a president something
they're known for. And secondly, it's not something that the
campaign has backed or endorsed in any way. And again
it's like not new. I fe feel like the media
has really spun this up a little bit and made
(15:54):
it into more than it is. There's not even consensus
among Yes, it is generally liked, but it's like not
having gets census among the.
Speaker 10 (16:01):
Right on everything in that.
Speaker 5 (16:03):
Now.
Speaker 9 (16:03):
To be clear, I've definitely not read all of it,
but labor issues for one example, there's so much dissent
on the right on what is it in that?
Speaker 10 (16:11):
And right to work not being thrilled about that.
Speaker 9 (16:14):
So I just don't think that we should make this
into the boogey ban, And that sort of points to
this bigger issue that the media also plays a role
in this. The media, the mainstream media, has very much
aggravated this situation by highlighting. First of all, I understand
like sensational stories sell and got to you know, make money,
(16:35):
you got to keep attention. But the more we highlight
the extremism and we put that on a pedestal, the
more attention we give it, the more people do stuff
to get that attention. So I think it's this like
vicious cycle that we're feeding into. So it's not just
Republicans and Democrats fault. Like everyone really has a part
in this process.
Speaker 1 (16:53):
I have to say, as a member of the media,
I agree with you that a lot of the media
has gotten very polarizing. Has it goes towards the extremes.
It highlights the people that are not representative of most
people in this country and the most just as social media,
by the way, but let's talk about social media. When
we talk about the media, social media, these algorithms push
the things that are going to get people the angriest.
Speaker 6 (17:15):
You bullock now, and it's interesting because the incentive system
really is structured now to go to the furthest side
right you think of, and not to well Marjorie Taylor Green.
I don't know that she's passed any legislation. I don't
think that her reputation is based on service. But she
(17:38):
raised four million dollars this cycle from small donors. Now
that's not just pointed at Marjorie Taylor Green. The incentive
system is to be the loudest on either side because
that if you're elected official, you're going to raise more money.
Speaker 7 (17:55):
Now back to your algorithms.
Speaker 6 (17:59):
You know, I don't know what like I think that
we have to actually we can differ with news programs.
I can't tell you how many times I was frustrated
with a journalist when I was in office. But I
also can't turn around and say, all right, then let's
get rid of the media, like you'd hope that the
(18:20):
media would have standards greater than just how do you
make the most money by the greatest of clickbait?
Speaker 1 (18:28):
Didn't your successor get into a fight with a journalist
in Montana at some point, a physical fight with a
journalist in Montana.
Speaker 7 (18:35):
And he was from Fox News? I think no? But
yet no, yeah, right right before it's election for Congress.
Speaker 1 (18:44):
You know, Courtney Hope, britt you you're with the College
National Republican Committee as a as a member of a
younger generation, do you see any hope that things are
changing in terms of how we talk about politics in
this country among the younger generation are the same old
(19:05):
you know, back and forth. Fight's going to continue as
we go forward.
Speaker 9 (19:09):
Do you think I'm optimistic that we're going to shift things? Candidly,
at this moment in time, I don't see that happening.
But I think that to go back to this point
about social media, there's a greater awareness and the younger generation,
those of us who grew up with it, like, we're
more aware of what it.
Speaker 10 (19:27):
Did to us having it growing up.
Speaker 9 (19:29):
I think then maybe you know our parents and stuff,
and this is not a knock against them, Like everyone's
just trying to figure the whole thing out. It's all
brand new, but it's I think we're more aware of
it and the damages that it's done and how it
really has run away, and not just damages to each
of us individually, but like to society at large. So
I feel like the same is sort of true with politics.
(19:52):
We are observing this and the way that, as we're
talking about before, social media is very much intertwined in
that we're looking into the system and really, this is
not it.
Speaker 10 (20:01):
This is not working. We need to make some changes,
and I don't think.
Speaker 9 (20:04):
We're quite there yet in making them, but I think
that we're we're moving in that right direction.
Speaker 2 (20:10):
Let me just reset for our listeners who are just
tuning in. This is the middle.
Speaker 1 (20:14):
I'm joined by former Montana Governor Steve Bullock and Courtney
Hope Britt, who's chair of the College Republican National Committee,
and we're asking you what can we do to improve
the tone of our politics while recognizing the stakes of
the upcoming election.
Speaker 2 (20:29):
You can call in at eight.
Speaker 1 (20:30):
Four four four Middle That is eight four four four
six four three three five three. You can also reach
out to us at Listen to the Middle dot com.
Steve Bullock, what can what can?
Speaker 4 (20:41):
Well?
Speaker 2 (20:41):
Let me ask you this.
Speaker 1 (20:43):
We are just days from this assassination attempt on President Trump.
Speaker 2 (20:47):
But so much has happened this week.
Speaker 1 (20:50):
How is that going to be a moment though, that
people remember the way they remember the assassination of John F.
Kennedy or the assassination of Robert F. Kennedy or all
the terrible things that have happened in our politics in
the past. That's a huge deal that one of our
former presidents was who is a candidate for president, was
(21:10):
shot like actually shot, No.
Speaker 6 (21:15):
And Jeremy I hope people do remember that, right that.
I agree with Courtney in as much it's like this
wasn't about political conflict, but we all should remember things
like this and say we're so much better than this,
(21:37):
certainly as a nation. And we should remember too that
the volunteer fire chief or retired fire chief that.
Speaker 7 (21:46):
Lost his life.
Speaker 4 (21:48):
Yeah.
Speaker 6 (21:48):
There often I think with sort of the random shootings,
we all have this moment's pause and then we go
on and forget about it, you know, a couple thoughts
and prayers, but not unlike.
Speaker 7 (22:09):
Ronald Reagan's shooting.
Speaker 6 (22:11):
Like, I think that's the last time we've dealt with
something like this, certainly at the presidential level, and it
will become a part of Yeah, I think all of
our history.
Speaker 1 (22:25):
And Courtney hope, Britt, I assumed that that shooting of
Ronald Reagan was before you were born.
Speaker 10 (22:30):
Well before it, yes.
Speaker 7 (22:31):
Yeah, yeah, So thanks Shering.
Speaker 2 (22:36):
Well, how did that, How did that? How did that
feel to you? Courtney?
Speaker 1 (22:39):
I mean, tell us about because there are so many
things we could talk about on this show right now
this week. But I still think that that's such a
monumental thing that we need to take a step back
and say, what's wrong with the tone of our politics
right now?
Speaker 9 (22:55):
Yeah, it was kind of earth chattering in the moment,
like it's something that feels like it could never happen,
and then it happens. And I mean, obviously I understand
things like this have happened in history, but they seem
like things that we're beyond.
Speaker 10 (23:08):
We're not doing this anymore.
Speaker 9 (23:09):
We've become better as a society, as a nation, and
then something catastrophic like this happens.
Speaker 10 (23:15):
Like I was sitting.
Speaker 9 (23:18):
On a train station waiting for by train to come,
and I don't think I'll ever forget that. I'm sure that,
like for the rest of my life, I will remember that.
I mean, it just really felt like times stood still.
Suddenly my phone's blowing up and I can't do anything. Also,
my phone is at like nine percent and I didn't
have anything to charge it with, so they couldn't interact
in the moment, So it's very crazy.
Speaker 10 (23:40):
And then at the same.
Speaker 9 (23:41):
Time, you know, we live in a time where everybody
has their phone, so everyone's then suddenly talking about it,
and it's just it's it's very memorable and still feels
like there's been some kind of shift in the world
since that's happened that I don't know, like we can't
go back to the time before that.
Speaker 1 (23:58):
Steeple, do you think it's possible for politicians with months
to go before an election to actually tone things down
after something like that happened? Yeah, we're in a little
honeymoon period right now where maybe people are talking about unity,
and we heard it from President Biden and we've heard
it from former President Trump as well.
Speaker 2 (24:16):
But do you think that this can last.
Speaker 6 (24:20):
I don't know if it's even lasted. In the four
days since Jeremy, Like, I would love if we could
all say, like, this is the differences from perspectives and issues,
not these people are scum.
Speaker 7 (24:38):
Or these people are X, Y and Z. But now
I think that.
Speaker 6 (24:45):
Hopefully it gives at least some people a moment's pause
in how they are going to present themselves, how we're
going to talk about violence. You concern only say I'm
going to fight for my country, Like that's you know,
there's shouldn't be any word police all of a sudden
(25:07):
along the way. But thinking that we can't get to
this level, we cannot stay at this level. I so
appreciate it when Courtney said that she's optimistic, right because
in some respects since Courtney you outed me as being
old and like remembering Ronald Reagan, Like if you think
(25:29):
most college students, their whole political consciousness.
Speaker 7 (25:33):
Has been in the last eight years, and.
Speaker 6 (25:39):
I think we can get back to a point where
I hope we can.
Speaker 7 (25:46):
Where we can differ. But it's not a blood sport.
Speaker 6 (25:51):
I mean, I've been so deeply disappointed at times with elections,
but it's not a blood sport.
Speaker 7 (25:57):
That means work harder the next time.
Speaker 1 (26:00):
Do you think, because we've heard so many people say that,
you know, the other side is an existential threat to
the country, that democracy is on the line, et cetera,
do you believe that that whatever happens in this election
is going to be either the beginning or the end
of something, or do you believe that we're still pretty
(26:22):
similar to each other, even though we like to point
out our differences.
Speaker 9 (26:26):
I do think that we're still, at the end of
the day, more similar than we are different. Of course,
we have our differences, and we have extreme differences that exist,
but the majority of the Americans sit somewhere in the
middle and they all want roughly the same things. We
just have different ideas about how to get there. And
we have a system. We have a really strong, incredible
(26:47):
system that has lots of checks and balances in place
that will hopefully prevent anything crazy from happening. Sometimes that
process feels really bureau bureaucratic, but that's a good thing.
It's a good thing that it takes us a while
to move things forward because it helps us do them
in a methodical way and prevents us from going way
off the rails. I think, like everything, you know, life
(27:10):
ebbs and flows and politics to too. So that's part
of my optimism as we are in this moment right
now where things are really heightened, but lots of things
are crazy since COVID and so many dynamics that have
contributed to the moment that we're in.
Speaker 10 (27:23):
So again I am I do.
Speaker 9 (27:25):
Really remain optimistic that we will be able to move
on from this moment and in the future we won't
be living here anymore.
Speaker 3 (27:32):
Jeremy, I got to say, I thought the convention was
pretty civil all things considered, and that does include Kid
Rock and whole COVID. They were both very feasible.
Speaker 1 (27:42):
By the way Kid Rock at the Republican convention. For
those who have not been watching wal to Wall coverage
or listening to Walt to Wall coverage of it, kid
Rock saying a new song, I guess that it was
based on Trump pumping his fist in the air after
he was shot and saying fight, fight, fight. Now, it
is interesting that if we're talking about unity that the
word that's being used is fight. But that is that
(28:05):
is that is the sort of the slogan right now, Courtney,
would you say of this convention is like fight, fight, fight,
with your.
Speaker 2 (28:12):
Fist in the air.
Speaker 10 (28:14):
Absolutely, it's definitely the energy.
Speaker 2 (28:16):
Yeah. Did you see any problem with that?
Speaker 9 (28:20):
Well? I think that there should be a little bit
of distinction between the extremism that we're seeing, the political extremism,
and just turn to phrase and individual words and terminology
that people use. Of course, those things do you add
up and contribute to a moment. But I think honing
in on any specific word that someone uses or brands
(28:40):
is not the problem that has gotten us to where
we are today. It's the sentiments behind the words. I
think you can use lots of words. We say things
like that all the time, we say things like fight.
I know Biden has gotten in a lot of hot
water recently about having said that we should put Trump
in the bull's eye, right. You know, I don't think
that he meant that as an actual bulls eye. I
(29:02):
think that's just a turn of phrase, and I don't
think that's what's contributing to this moment.
Speaker 10 (29:07):
We can't point to that.
Speaker 9 (29:08):
If we could, it would be a whole lot easier
to fix this. It's these sentiments and these feelings that
there are other Americans who just cannot do not want
the same things as us. They see a different vision
for America, and they don't like us. I think there's
this feeling among some Americans that their fellow Americans want
their failure and don't want the same things as them.
(29:28):
So I think the core of this is reigniting the
belief that we actually do want a lot of the
same things, finding those areas of commonality, and then debating
about how we get there.
Speaker 1 (29:39):
Well, just days after he survived an assassination attempt for president,
Trump accepted the Republican nomination for president for a third time.
Speaker 3 (29:47):
Tolliver, Yeah, here's Trump speaking as the twenty twenty four
Republican National Convention wrapped up in Milwaukee.
Speaker 8 (29:54):
I am running to be president for all of America,
not half America, because there is no victory in winning
for half of America. So tonight, with faith and devotion,
I proudly accept your nomination for President of the United States.
Speaker 1 (30:19):
Former President Trump speaking at the Republican National Convention in Milwaukee,
and we'll be right back with.
Speaker 2 (30:25):
More of the Middle. This is the Middle. I'm Jeremy Hobson.
Speaker 1 (30:29):
This hour, we're asking you what can we do to
improve the tone of our politics while recognizing the stakes
of the upcoming election. You can call us at eight
four four four Middle. That's eight four four four six
four three three five three. You can also reach out
to us at listen to Themiddle dot com. I am
joined by former Montana Governor Steve Bullock and Courtney Hope Britt,
(30:50):
chair of the College Republican National Committee. And if you
are a regular listen to the Middle and you say.
Speaker 2 (30:54):
Where are the callers?
Speaker 1 (30:56):
Well, as we go live to the air, we are
going live right after the Trump speech at the Republican
National Committee, which went a bit long, and so that's
why there are no callers if you're listening to us live.
But maybe he's done now, so maybe we're about to
get some eight four four for Middle.
Speaker 2 (31:15):
That's a four four four sixty four three three five three.
Speaker 1 (31:17):
Steve, if somebody is listening to this on an individual level,
what can somebody do to improve the tone of our politics?
Speaker 7 (31:27):
So I think a couple of things.
Speaker 6 (31:28):
First of all, I agree with Courtney inasmuch is that
we share a lot more in common than what divides us.
And then most people write their lives are too hectic
for politics. But we do want some of the same things, right.
Everybody wants a decent paycheck that'll pay the bills, maybe
even leave a little left over at the end.
Speaker 7 (31:50):
Everybody wants a roof over.
Speaker 6 (31:51):
Their head, a safe community, clean air, clean water, the
belief you can do better for your kids and grandkids
than yourself. Like, that's what we should I'll be talking about.
But so what can the as you say, sort of
the on the sidelines Americans do maybe to try to
improve it. Look, there are things that with media literacy
(32:15):
and journalism. There's some talk about electoral reform overall of
you know, if all of these districts weren't so safely
red or safely blue. When I was graduated from college,
one hundred and thirty five congressional districts could go either way.
Speaker 7 (32:34):
Now I think it's twenty five.
Speaker 6 (32:36):
Wow, And I think we should ask more as consumers
of politics, like be willing to say that's not right,
Like we are better than this as a party and
as a country, so much of it ends up though
(33:00):
unfortunately the incentives aren't all there correct for those running
for office or those serving in an office, and not
enough folks will stand up and say, like, I'll never
forget right John McCain saying, don't say that about Barack Obama.
Speaker 7 (33:17):
He's actually a fine man.
Speaker 1 (33:18):
To the woman at one of his rallies who got
up and said he was a terrorist or something like that,
and McCain said, no, that's not true.
Speaker 6 (33:27):
And those are the moments that we all need to elevate, right,
that we all need to say that that's what we
want to lead. But the overall system, I think de
emphasizes and disincentivizes that.
Speaker 1 (33:47):
What about you, Courtney, what do you think individuals can
do on this front? I think you're muted, Courtney, Go ahead.
Speaker 10 (34:01):
Sorry about that.
Speaker 9 (34:03):
I think there's a lot of things that individuals can
do to help move away from the extremest environment that
we're currently in. Number One, for people who are really
into politics, who are partisans, when you see something from
the other side that triggers you take a second to
take a step back and remember that that's a real person,
(34:24):
and especially online, like don't go into this mode of
getting ready to attack, but take a second to be like, wait,
why do they think that way? Let me dig a
little deeper, and sometimes it's whatever they're saying isn't called for,
but you should still try to approach it with some
level of humanity and compassion. Likewise, when you're putting your
(34:46):
own content out as a partisan, I think it's important
to be really mindful to the extent that you can
what words you're using, and especially written communications that you
have a little more time to think through really trying
to choose your words wisely and choose the right tone
that you are coming across in a truly caring, respectful way.
I think that's one area for people who are not
(35:09):
in that sort of scene. Give donate to the people
that are doing that work, that are representing those ideas
that are approaching politics in a respectful manner.
Speaker 10 (35:20):
I know that's like.
Speaker 9 (35:21):
Super easy, or you know, the common thing like money,
but it is true part of you know, the governor
said earlier, one of the reasons that especially elected officials
act in hyper partisan ways is because it helps them
raise money. So if you help contribute to the candidates
that aren't doing the hyper partisan things. You're helping them
(35:41):
resist those temptations, and you're helping them stay afloat. And
if we're able to give to more of those candidates,
more of them will be successful. And then finally, I
think there are other ways to get involved, trying to
really build community and connect with people outside of politics,
and really connect with people who wouldn't necessarily think the
way that you do. Trying to seek that out in
your life so that you can build a community that
(36:04):
is more diverse. I think helps you approach people in
that way. Going to different events for people who I
know this is very much targeted towards people in Middle America,
but if you live in DC, there are lots of opportunities.
We for one, are doing one College Republicans and College
Democrats are putting on an event next week and you
can tune into it. Little self promotion here, but you
can tune into it. We'd love to have you so
(36:27):
that kind of thing, to really try and seek that out.
I think there are ways that we can all individually
engage in breaking down some of the hyper partisan rhetoric.
Speaker 1 (36:37):
Host interlude here, Governor Bullock, I want to ask you
a question that is not about this. But while we
have you on this program, I'm going to put you
on the spot here. We've said a lot has happened
in the last couple months. A lot could happen between
now and the election. There's a strong push right now
within the Democratic Party for President Biden to announce that
he's not running.
Speaker 2 (36:57):
For reelection this year.
Speaker 1 (37:00):
Your colleague in Montana, John Tester, who's running for reelection
in the Senate, came out and said he thinks Biden
should not run again. Where do you stand on this?
Speaker 6 (37:11):
Well, one of the things that now, Jeremy, I'm just
a guy that spends time on podcasts with you.
Speaker 4 (37:18):
But.
Speaker 6 (37:20):
I'm not going to be weighing in on the process
needs to work its way out, work its way through.
What I do want to see is a united decision
of where would we be best as a Democratic Party
(37:41):
to win come November. Guy nam mou'd All a long
time ago said right, when Democrats organize a fire and squad,
we do it in a circle. So we've seen a
lot of that as of late. And I just right
before I got on, saw that Tester's thing. Tester's quote,
and I'm still going to keep my powder dry. For
(38:04):
at least a little bit while longer, because okay, ultimately
it is the way the process works. It's President Biden's decision,
this decision to de estimate Courtney.
Speaker 2 (38:18):
You're at the convention in Milwaukee. What's the sense there.
Speaker 1 (38:21):
Do people think that President Trump is going to be
running against President Biden this year?
Speaker 9 (38:27):
I think so. I think people think Biden's going to
stick this out. But we're also very much just plugged
into this convention right now. It's been pretty tough to
keep up with what's going on outside of the convention.
This has kind of been my world for the last
few days. I think this name is probably true for
most people. So although I have recently read right before
this actually that there's been some developments this week, I
(38:48):
think that's mostly been missed because we're just kind of
in the Republican zone really getting energized.
Speaker 2 (38:55):
Again. If you're just tuning in, you can call us
if you want.
Speaker 1 (38:58):
You could be our first call of the hour at
a four four four middle that is eight four four
four six four three three five three, or you can
reach out listen to themiddle dot com. Steve Bullock, do
you think that and this is yeah? I don't want
to have this be too much of a softball for you.
But there are probably some listeners who say, well, this
(39:19):
is not really a both sides issue. There is one
side that's being more divisive than the other. Do you
feel that way or do you think that it is
something that both sides are doing.
Speaker 6 (39:34):
I think at times both sides are doing it, certainly.
But going back to sort of what the foundations are
of the norms that we expect. You know, when we
say well, people no longer have any trust in elections,
(39:55):
or people have no longer any trust.
Speaker 7 (39:57):
In the judicial system, that's beyond like the political fights.
Speaker 6 (40:04):
Those are the norms, the rule of a law that
has actually supported along the way. So I do think
when it comes to sort of the the guardrails, there
is one side that's been taking those guardrails off a
little bit more.
Speaker 7 (40:22):
And it's just an interesting time. I was with a
former governor from Idaho.
Speaker 6 (40:28):
Guy named butch Otter fairly recently, and Butcher's rock ribbed Republican.
You know, you served in Congress then he was governor,
and he said, yeah, I got people at home calling
me a socialist, And it was more just because he
was saying, let's protect norms than anything else.
Speaker 2 (40:49):
So, hmm, what do you think? Oh, yeah, go ahead, Toliver.
Speaker 3 (40:57):
Yeah, I was gonna say, I think it's interesting. I
was gonna to ask a question that's sort of like,
when do we think this started. I'm a millennial, I'm
thirty eight, and I actually don't remember it because we
keep talking about a time when politics were civil, but
I actually don't remember that time. Like where did this begin?
I guess we can say Governor Bullock because you're a
few years older than our other guests.
Speaker 1 (41:19):
By the way, Governor Bullock is a very young man, Okay,
and you can't see I can see him.
Speaker 2 (41:24):
I've seen him. He's a very young young man. He's spry.
Speaker 7 (41:28):
Yeah, I look, I think.
Speaker 6 (41:32):
I don't want to put everything back to when I
graduate from college. But I think three things happened at
that point, right. One was the FBC got rid of
what was called the fairness doctrine, and that was like,
you don't have to have equal time on media, but
you actually have to present things in a fair man.
(41:52):
At the time, there was a DJ talk show host
named Rush Limbaugh in Sacramento that said, I'm going to
move to New York. So the media environment changed, the
social media environment like social media should have been here's
people talking to one another, democracy in its best ways,
(42:17):
but instead it became people getting more sort of cabined
or blocked. I think Post Citizens United changed when all
of a sudden, the money comes from the outside and
just the thread of that spending will make groups go
one way or the other.
Speaker 7 (42:40):
So that's where.
Speaker 6 (42:43):
It's not that the political system changed, it's all the
incentives outside the political system that I think changed. It
added to this substantially.
Speaker 1 (42:54):
Courtney, do you see a future Republican party where toned
up rhetoric is less a part of its identity than
it is now?
Speaker 9 (43:04):
Well, I think that's kind of a loaded question that
sort of implacs the Democrats don't also have this problem.
Speaker 10 (43:12):
And again that.
Speaker 9 (43:17):
So I am again, I am hopeful that there is
a time where things are a little bit more focused
on the middle, a little bit more focused on commonalities.
But the nature of the parties and the partisan system
is that they are at odds with one another, and
especially in a country with a two party system, that's
going to be I think amplified because there's really no
(43:39):
way when there's only two parties for the two in
a campaigning sense to do a whole lot together. I
hope that, particularly in the governing side, they do find
some more ways to work together so they can get
a few more things done, which the bar is kind
of low right now.
Speaker 7 (43:55):
You know.
Speaker 1 (43:56):
I was speaking to somebody who used to work for
Senator I believe his name was Jim Jeffords from Vermont,
who switched parties in the George W.
Speaker 2 (44:05):
Bush administration.
Speaker 1 (44:07):
And this person said that he got death threats immediately
after that. And we do hear not just about the
assassination attempts and the actual attacks that happened, but that politicians.
Speaker 2 (44:18):
And I wonder about.
Speaker 1 (44:19):
You, Steve Bullock, if you've ever had that happen before,
that the people are getting death threats all the time
now I.
Speaker 12 (44:26):
Did, and it was interesting even at our front did
at times get death threats. But interesting with the nationalization
of media, like my front desk could tell when somehow
something I did was mentioned on Fox News, just because
all sudden, all these calls are He's such.
Speaker 7 (44:49):
A horrible human being, and you hear more and more.
Speaker 6 (44:55):
And I think that's also with the social media and
the swatting and that that everyone are many I think
members of Congress that you said I'm done. It's like
I came on both sides to do something, it's not
getting done and is it really worth it?
Speaker 7 (45:15):
Now, that's the saddest.
Speaker 6 (45:17):
Thing I think we can ever hear. Because my twelve
years in public office.
Speaker 7 (45:23):
Was a gift. It was a humbling gift to get
to do.
Speaker 6 (45:26):
But if people turn around and say the calculus isn't
worth it for what your family goes through, what you
as an individual goes through, that there are actual real
threats to your personal safety. Like we're so much we
need to be so much better than that as a country.
Speaker 1 (45:45):
By the way, Governor, you now, did you own a
bar in Helena, Montana? Or you just spend a lot
of time there.
Speaker 7 (45:54):
Well, one of the things that I did, Jeremy is.
Speaker 6 (45:59):
My last year not this was COVID and I joked
off and that said, oh, I'd so much rather on
a bar than deal with this, because people are happy
in bars. So I did open a tap house.
Speaker 7 (46:14):
In Helena.
Speaker 6 (46:15):
But also like one of the things that we do
if I'm in town on Monday nights, we have what's
called the soapbox.
Speaker 7 (46:22):
So I'll bring in a speaker.
Speaker 6 (46:24):
I'll talk to them and it can be anything from
high school football coaches to a discussion of anti Semitism,
And it's like, wow, can we model the way that
we can disagree on issues? We did climate change, We've
done a number of things where let's I think back
to Courteney's point of even on social media, take a
(46:46):
breath before you respond. Can we disagree in a more
civil manner? I mean, this would be a good thing. Jareman,
you could probably write it off. You could do the
middle right from Brothers Tap Works on Last Chance Kulture
in Montana.
Speaker 1 (47:01):
Hey, we basically do that soapbox, just without the beer
here on the every week.
Speaker 2 (47:08):
You know, Courtney Hope, Britt.
Speaker 1 (47:10):
I'm going to give the last word to you on this,
just your final thoughts about how we can improve the
tone of our politics.
Speaker 9 (47:18):
I have to reiterate the points I made before that
I really think there's a lot of value in trying
to take a breath, take a pause, and just individually
we all have to take up this mantle. It's not
going to get better in what are we going to
legislate this and make it better? Like that's not going
to fix the system. It has to be a change
of heart, and we have to have a societal shift,
which is going to take a lot of time, a
(47:40):
lot of effort, and it's going to take a lot
of people stepping up to the plate and finding their
better selves and really leaning into that, which isn't easy
to do, and especially when we have all these systems
that are incentivizing the opposite.
Speaker 1 (47:51):
Well, I want to thank my guests, who got more
airtime than any guests on the Middle's History because President
Trump also talked for much longer than expected and we
didn't get any phone calls for the first time in
Middle history. So a lot of first here today Montana
Governor for Montana Governor Steve Bullock and Courtney Hope Britt,
chair of the College National Republican Republican National Committee.
Speaker 2 (48:11):
Thank you so much to both of you for joining us.
Speaker 7 (48:15):
Thank you, Jeremy, thanks and Tolliver.
Speaker 2 (48:17):
You and I are headed to Birmingham, Alabama.
Speaker 3 (48:19):
Oh and I'm so excited. Yeah, we're going to be
doing the show next week from wb HM and Birmingham
with Gow and we're going to be asking about the
role of Christianity in our politics. Around sixty percent of
Americans identify as Christian, but that's down significantly from ninety
percent in the nineties according to the Pew Research Center.
And yet some want Christianity to be even more central
to our lives, putting the Ten Commandments in classrooms, for example.
(48:42):
So if you want to participate in that conversation, give
us a call it eight four four four Middle. That's
eight four four four six four three three five three,
and tell us what you think about the role of
Christianity in our politics.
Speaker 1 (48:51):
Cheer and I will say, by the way, if Biden
drops off the ticket, that probably that show's.
Speaker 2 (48:57):
Going to wait and we're going to do one about that.
Speaker 1 (49:00):
So The Middle is brought to you by Longnok Media,
distributed by Illinois Public Media and Urbana, Illinois and produced
by Joan Jennings, Harrison Viatinio, Danny Alexander, and John Barth.
Our intern is Anika Deshler. Our technical director is Jason Kroft.
Our theme music was composed by Andrew Haigu And thanks
to all the stations making it possible for people across
the country to listen to the Middle, I'm Jeremy Hobson.
Speaker 2 (49:20):
Talk to you next week.
The Middle is supported by Journalism Funding Partners, a nonprofit
organization striving to increase the sustainability of local journalism by
building connections between donors and news organizations. More information on
how you can support the Middle at listen to Themiddle
dot com.
Speaker 2 (00:19):
Welcome to the Middle.
Speaker 1 (00:20):
I'm Jeremy Hobson, joined by our house DJ Tolliver and
Tolliver I want to welcome the listeners this week of
KUOW in Seattle and KPBS in San Diego.
Speaker 2 (00:29):
And what a week it has been.
Speaker 3 (00:31):
I know, man, I thought you say, we're going to
have summers off. Come on, This isn't what I signed
up for.
Speaker 1 (00:36):
I honestly did not think that the campaign would be
as crazy as it is right now in the month
of July. And I keep reminding myself it's only July.
But just let's just think about this. In the last
two months, we've had former President Trump's convictions in the
New York hush money trial, President Biden's disastrous debate performance,
an assassination attempt on former President Trump, a vice presidential
(00:58):
nominee selection, and big questions about whether Biden will stay
in the race. And again, it's only July. A lot
is going to happen between now and November. But the
assassination attempt was the latest example of violence in our politics.
There was, of course, the attack on the husband of
former House Speaker Nancy Pelosi in twenty twenty two. There
(01:19):
was the attack on Congressman Steve Scalise in twenty seventeen,
the attack on former Congresswoman Gabby Giffords back in twenty eleven,
and of course the attack on the Capitol on January sixth,
twenty twenty one. So what needs to change in our politics?
And is it still possible to talk about the stakes
in the upcoming election while not demonizing political opponents. That
(01:41):
is our question this hour, Tolliver. What is the number
for people to call in?
Speaker 3 (01:45):
It's eight four four four Middle. That's eight four four
four sixty four three three five three, or you can
write to us that listen to the Middle dot com.
Speaker 1 (01:51):
And before we introduced our panel last week on the show,
we asked you what you're doing about your phone addictions.
It was a fascinating conversation.
Speaker 2 (01:59):
Here's what some you had to say.
Speaker 4 (02:01):
Hi, this is Richard from Cleveland.
Speaker 2 (02:04):
Hi.
Speaker 5 (02:04):
This is Renee from Nashville, Tennessee.
Speaker 6 (02:07):
This is David Shenk.
Speaker 7 (02:08):
I live in South Bend, Indiana.
Speaker 8 (02:12):
Hi.
Speaker 3 (02:12):
My name is Johannah Walker, and I'm listening to the
show right now.
Speaker 5 (02:15):
I'm definitely addicted to my phone, and I don't have
the answer.
Speaker 3 (02:18):
I've tried so many things.
Speaker 7 (02:20):
You name it, I've tried it.
Speaker 4 (02:23):
I have a very high amount of screen time, and
I've had that ever since I was a teenager. I'm
twenty nine right now, and a lot of my interests
have to do with doing things digitally.
Speaker 5 (02:38):
I am a mother and a family of four, and
we have two people addicted to their phones who are
currently working on be talking both of them from constantly
being on their phone, by requiring no phones at dinner,
not looking at phones in the car, noticing the landscape,
and other small changes.
Speaker 4 (02:55):
I am not addicted to my phone because I don't
have a cell phone.
Speaker 7 (02:58):
I refuse to own one and always.
Speaker 2 (03:00):
Have That must be nice. Thanks to everybody called in.
Speaker 1 (03:04):
And if you want to do something good with your phone,
you can listen to that show anytime because The Middle
is available as a podcast in partnership with iHeart Podcasts
on the iHeart app or wherever you listen to podcasts.
So now to our topic this hour, what can we
do to improve the tone of our politics while recognizing
the stakes in the upcoming election.
Speaker 2 (03:22):
Let's meet our panel.
Speaker 1 (03:23):
Joining us from Helena, Montana Democrat Steve Bullock, the former
governor of Montana.
Speaker 2 (03:28):
Governor, Welcome to the middle.
Speaker 7 (03:30):
It's great to be with you, Jeremy.
Speaker 1 (03:32):
And from Milwaukee, Wisconsin, where the Republican National Convention is
taking place, Courtney Hope Britt, who is the chair of
the College Republican National Committee.
Speaker 2 (03:40):
Courtney, welcome to you, Thanks for having me.
Speaker 1 (03:43):
And before we get to the phones, I was on
the BBC the other day and I said that there's
a tension in the air right now in the US.
Speaker 2 (03:50):
As we get closer to the election, that it's so crazy.
Speaker 1 (03:53):
We've had all these attacks in recent years on politicians,
and the BBC anchor British person obviously said to me, well,
hasn't it always been like that in America?
Speaker 2 (04:01):
Steve Bullock? Does it feel.
Speaker 1 (04:03):
Different to you right now in terms of the vitriol
in our politics?
Speaker 6 (04:08):
You know it does share me Like I even think
back when I got elected in twenty twelve. My kids
at the time were six, eight and ten. You know,
the youngest in forty years. That sort of stepped into this.
In my first stay of the state, I said, you're
going to hear different sounds coming from the state Capitol
and the residents and kids learn from our words and
(04:30):
our deeds. That's the sound of children, and we need
to start acting like they do because our kids are watching.
And I think even from that time twenty twelve to
where we.
Speaker 7 (04:41):
Are today, the level of vitriol.
Speaker 6 (04:47):
The level of an inability to say there's some commonalities
that we share, like, look, we can certainly differ on
policy and direction, but also, I guess failed in twenty sixteen,
I'd said, well, I wish people cared about public policy
(05:08):
and elections like they do right professional sports on any
given Sunday, there's millions of people watching tuned in. But
I think now people care about politics like they care
about professional sports.
Speaker 7 (05:24):
Your Raiders fan, not only do I.
Speaker 6 (05:26):
Hate you, I hate your whole fam Right now level
of division is significantly changed things.
Speaker 1 (05:33):
Courtney, what do you think your party just watched its nominee,
the former President Trump, almost get killed less than a
week ago. What do you think about the level of
vitriol right now in our politics?
Speaker 9 (05:44):
Well, I certainly don't have as many years to compare
it to, but it definitely feels like it's at some
kind of all time high. It feels like it's just
really hit a very high point where to the governor's point,
if you're a Democrat, you hate Republicans.
Speaker 10 (06:00):
If you're a Republican, you hate Democrats.
Speaker 9 (06:02):
And I think we've just lost sight of the fact
that our political opponents are not our enemies.
Speaker 10 (06:08):
They're just our rivals.
Speaker 9 (06:10):
They're fellow or fellow citizens, are just that they might
disagree with us, but at the end of the day,
we have to work together as American citizens.
Speaker 2 (06:19):
So Trump, as you know, picked JD.
Speaker 1 (06:21):
Vance as his running mate for the selection, someone who
is no stranger to using rhetoric to rile up the base.
He of course, once likened Trump to Adolf Hitler. He said,
President Biden sent the order for the assassination attempt. Courtney,
I'll start with you, how do you think that selection
is going to affect the tone of this election. It's
not the unity message that we've been hearing about at
(06:42):
the RNC so much.
Speaker 9 (06:45):
Well, I think that we've seen this sort of thing
before in vice presidential picks, being at some point in
their history at odds with the presidential nominee.
Speaker 10 (06:54):
I mean, if you.
Speaker 9 (06:54):
Look back four years ago, Vice President Harris was saying
some pretty pointed things. Now President Biden, and obviously they're
working together pretty successfully as a team. I don't think
many people question their unity and their teamwork now. So
I think that's just sort of the nature of politics
(07:16):
that people do find themselves at odd together odds at
some point in the past, and then learn to work
together in the future. So I'm not really surprised by that,
and I think we'll probably see them learn to work together.
Speaker 1 (07:30):
Steve Block, what do you think, I mean, what did
you think when you heard not just JD. Vance but
other Republicans immediately after the assassination attempt on President Trump
blame Biden's.
Speaker 6 (07:42):
Yeah, and look, let's begin with what we should all
agree on, right that that attack is horrifying, and I'm
thankful that President former President Trump as well, that they're
there should be no place for violence in our political
(08:05):
discourse or certainly taking action. But it's not you know,
it's not just immediately thereafter.
Speaker 7 (08:14):
Like even when JD. Vance last night he said they
literally shot.
Speaker 6 (08:20):
Him, Like, who is that day, you know that the
continue the initial of saying oh, or some people pointing
back and saying to the press, this is all your fault.
The initial response is of basically that Democrats or Biden did.
Speaker 7 (08:42):
That, or even last night they literally shot.
Speaker 6 (08:45):
Him, like there used to be moments where we could
come together with unity.
Speaker 7 (08:53):
And at this point when.
Speaker 6 (08:56):
It becomes oh, it must have been them supposed to
saying what a tragedy and thank God that he's alive.
Speaker 1 (09:04):
Well, what do you think about that, Courtney, because you
just made that point about you know that your political
opponents are not your enemies. What do you think about
when you hear Governor Bullock say jd Vance or others
were saying they shot him.
Speaker 9 (09:18):
I think it's a really interesting point, to be honest,
I hadn't thought about it in that way, and I
think you have a really good point there that it's
not so much about they one person did this. And
I think there's also something important to mention here in
that this attempt was likely not the direct result of
(09:41):
the intensity and extremism in our political discourse and rhetoric.
Speaker 10 (09:45):
Happening right now.
Speaker 9 (09:46):
I'm glad that it's bringing this topic up because I
think it's an important one for us to address. It's
something that I've personally been trying to work on for
a long time and try to be mindful of as
someone who's hyperpartisan. But I don't think that we should
conflate this situation with the political rhetoric. This was someone who,
like many other assassins before or attempted assassins, who was
(10:10):
totally unstable. It's total problems and things, but we shouldn't
be painting them, is number one. I mean, he was
a registered Republican. Number two, like, look back to the
attempted assassination on President Reagan that had nothing to do
with his policies. Like, this isn't a war general coming
up with some strategy to take someone out. This is
somebody who's.
Speaker 10 (10:31):
Not right in the head.
Speaker 9 (10:32):
And this has more pointing to our mental health crices
in the country than it is to the political rhetoric.
Though I am again glad that it is giving us
a chance to talk about it.
Speaker 1 (10:41):
You mentioned mental health. A lot of people also in
the immediate aftermath, would say it has a lot to
do with the gun issue in this country, which comes
up again and again and again. You know, Tolliver after
the assassination attempt on former President Trump. President Biden addressed
the American people a couple of times in a call
for unity.
Speaker 7 (11:01):
Yeah, that's right.
Speaker 3 (11:02):
He was actually really quick to condemn the act and
said that there's no place for violence in our society.
Speaker 11 (11:07):
Our fellow Americans, I want to speak to you tonight
about the need for us to lower the temperature in
our politics and to remember, or we may disagree, we
are not enemies. We're neighbors. We're friends, co workers, citizens,
and most importantly, we are fellow Americans. We must stand together.
(11:28):
Yesterday shooting at Donald Trump's rally in Pennsylvania calls on
all of us to take a step back, take stock
of where we are, how we go forward from here.
Speaker 1 (11:39):
President Biden speaking the other day, And by the way,
if you are a regular listener to the Middle, we
are still trying to raise the funds it takes to
do this show Toliver. People can go to Listen to
the Middle dot com and make a tax deductible contribution
in any amount, which really helps us, especially as we
get on the read. We're going to be in Birmingham
next week.
Speaker 7 (12:00):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (12:00):
Absolutely, I'll pay for some lunches or something come on.
Speaker 1 (12:02):
Right well, or like you know the things it takes
just to put the show on the air.
Speaker 2 (12:06):
Anyway, we'll be right back with more of the Middle.
Speaker 1 (12:11):
This is the Middle. I'm Jeremy Hobson. If you're just tuning,
in the Middle is a national call in show. We
are focused on elevating voices from the middle geographically, politically,
and philosophically. Or maybe you just want to meet in
the middle. This hour, we're asking you what can we
do to improve the tone of our politics while recognizing
the stakes of the upcoming election?
Speaker 2 (12:30):
Tolliver, what is the number to call in?
Speaker 3 (12:33):
It's eight four four four Middle. That's eight four four
four six four three three five three. You can also
write to us at Listen to the Middle dot com
or on social media.
Speaker 1 (12:40):
I remember when you actually had to read that number
because you didn't know it by Harvard.
Speaker 7 (12:44):
I think now you think I know it etched.
Speaker 2 (12:46):
Into your lever.
Speaker 1 (12:47):
I'm joined by former Montana Governor Steve Bullock and Courtney
Hope Britt, chair of the College Republican National Committee. Before
we go to the phones, Uh, Steve Bullock, what about
this idea of recognizing this stakes of this election? Is
it okay for Democrats to say that Trump is an
authoritarian or it could be the end of democracy if
(13:08):
he's elected.
Speaker 6 (13:11):
Yeah, Jeremy, look at how do we get back to
the center, or how do we tone things down. If
we could actually agree on certain norms right, norms like
the rule of law, norms like.
Speaker 7 (13:27):
Respect for elections, things that have served us well two
hundred and fifty years.
Speaker 6 (13:34):
For the last two hundred and fifty years, I think
we would get a lot closer. But part of the
challenge is, like, from my perspective, that's not really the
heat in the politics. It is a real issue when
we say democracy is on the ballot, when you know
a third of the members of Congress one hundred and
(13:57):
seventy members from thirty seven or thirty eight states are
denying the results of last election, or when the president's
campaign manager, Chris Civita, even earlier today said this is
an over on election day, this is over on inauguration day.
Speaker 7 (14:16):
So I think that we need to be talking about subjects.
We need to be talking about what the stakes of
this election are.
Speaker 6 (14:23):
We ought to be actually saying Project twenty twenty five,
here are its elements.
Speaker 7 (14:31):
This is a proposed game plan for day one.
Speaker 6 (14:37):
And if we're not doing that, we're not having an
honest conversation. That's not to scare people. That's just like,
this is what's out there.
Speaker 2 (14:44):
Courtney, what do you think?
Speaker 1 (14:45):
And I'm just going to throw it to you with
a line that is used often against Democrats. Trump has
called Democrats Marxists and communists and says immigrants are poisoning
the blood of our country. Is that rhetoric acceptable if
we I want to tone things down because let's be
or not in you know, ninety nine percent of Democrats
(15:08):
in this country are not Marxists and communists.
Speaker 9 (15:12):
You're absolutely right, just like ninety nine percent of Republicans
aren't crazy either. But there you know, there's fringe on
both sides. That's very real. And this point of this
whole show is the middle, Like the majority of America's
in the middle, and they've been abandoned. We need to
find them again. I do want to kean on something
that was brought up Project twenty twenty five, just to
(15:33):
mention that this isn't something that has been put forward.
First of all, it's not something that's new. It's something
that Heritage does every every time there's a president something
they're known for. And secondly, it's not something that the
campaign has backed or endorsed in any way. And again
it's like not new. I fe feel like the media
has really spun this up a little bit and made
(15:54):
it into more than it is. There's not even consensus
among Yes, it is generally liked, but it's like not
having gets census among the.
Speaker 10 (16:01):
Right on everything in that.
Speaker 5 (16:03):
Now.
Speaker 9 (16:03):
To be clear, I've definitely not read all of it,
but labor issues for one example, there's so much dissent
on the right on what is it in that?
Speaker 10 (16:11):
And right to work not being thrilled about that.
Speaker 9 (16:14):
So I just don't think that we should make this
into the boogey ban, And that sort of points to
this bigger issue that the media also plays a role
in this. The media, the mainstream media, has very much
aggravated this situation by highlighting. First of all, I understand
like sensational stories sell and got to you know, make money,
(16:35):
you got to keep attention. But the more we highlight
the extremism and we put that on a pedestal, the
more attention we give it, the more people do stuff
to get that attention. So I think it's this like
vicious cycle that we're feeding into. So it's not just
Republicans and Democrats fault. Like everyone really has a part
in this process.
Speaker 1 (16:53):
I have to say, as a member of the media,
I agree with you that a lot of the media
has gotten very polarizing. Has it goes towards the extremes.
It highlights the people that are not representative of most
people in this country and the most just as social media,
by the way, but let's talk about social media. When
we talk about the media, social media, these algorithms push
the things that are going to get people the angriest.
Speaker 6 (17:15):
You bullock now, and it's interesting because the incentive system
really is structured now to go to the furthest side
right you think of, and not to well Marjorie Taylor Green.
I don't know that she's passed any legislation. I don't
think that her reputation is based on service. But she
(17:38):
raised four million dollars this cycle from small donors. Now
that's not just pointed at Marjorie Taylor Green. The incentive
system is to be the loudest on either side because
that if you're elected official, you're going to raise more money.
Speaker 7 (17:55):
Now back to your algorithms.
Speaker 6 (17:59):
You know, I don't know what like I think that
we have to actually we can differ with news programs.
I can't tell you how many times I was frustrated
with a journalist when I was in office. But I
also can't turn around and say, all right, then let's
get rid of the media, like you'd hope that the
(18:20):
media would have standards greater than just how do you
make the most money by the greatest of clickbait?
Speaker 1 (18:28):
Didn't your successor get into a fight with a journalist
in Montana at some point, a physical fight with a
journalist in Montana.
Speaker 7 (18:35):
And he was from Fox News? I think no? But
yet no, yeah, right right before it's election for Congress.
Speaker 1 (18:44):
You know, Courtney Hope, britt you you're with the College
National Republican Committee as a as a member of a
younger generation, do you see any hope that things are
changing in terms of how we talk about politics in
this country among the younger generation are the same old
(19:05):
you know, back and forth. Fight's going to continue as
we go forward.
Speaker 9 (19:09):
Do you think I'm optimistic that we're going to shift things? Candidly,
at this moment in time, I don't see that happening.
But I think that to go back to this point
about social media, there's a greater awareness and the younger generation,
those of us who grew up with it, like, we're
more aware of what it.
Speaker 10 (19:27):
Did to us having it growing up.
Speaker 9 (19:29):
I think then maybe you know our parents and stuff,
and this is not a knock against them, Like everyone's
just trying to figure the whole thing out. It's all
brand new, but it's I think we're more aware of
it and the damages that it's done and how it
really has run away, and not just damages to each
of us individually, but like to society at large. So
I feel like the same is sort of true with politics.
(19:52):
We are observing this and the way that, as we're
talking about before, social media is very much intertwined in
that we're looking into the system and really, this is
not it.
Speaker 10 (20:01):
This is not working. We need to make some changes,
and I don't think.
Speaker 9 (20:04):
We're quite there yet in making them, but I think
that we're we're moving in that right direction.
Speaker 2 (20:10):
Let me just reset for our listeners who are just
tuning in. This is the middle.
Speaker 1 (20:14):
I'm joined by former Montana Governor Steve Bullock and Courtney
Hope Britt, who's chair of the College Republican National Committee,
and we're asking you what can we do to improve
the tone of our politics while recognizing the stakes of
the upcoming election.
Speaker 2 (20:29):
You can call in at eight.
Speaker 1 (20:30):
Four four four Middle That is eight four four four
six four three three five three. You can also reach
out to us at Listen to the Middle dot com.
Steve Bullock, what can what can?
Speaker 4 (20:41):
Well?
Speaker 2 (20:41):
Let me ask you this.
Speaker 1 (20:43):
We are just days from this assassination attempt on President Trump.
Speaker 2 (20:47):
But so much has happened this week.
Speaker 1 (20:50):
How is that going to be a moment though, that
people remember the way they remember the assassination of John F.
Kennedy or the assassination of Robert F. Kennedy or all
the terrible things that have happened in our politics in
the past. That's a huge deal that one of our
former presidents was who is a candidate for president, was
(21:10):
shot like actually shot, No.
Speaker 6 (21:15):
And Jeremy I hope people do remember that, right that.
I agree with Courtney in as much it's like this
wasn't about political conflict, but we all should remember things
like this and say we're so much better than this,
(21:37):
certainly as a nation. And we should remember too that
the volunteer fire chief or retired fire chief that.
Speaker 7 (21:46):
Lost his life.
Speaker 4 (21:48):
Yeah.
Speaker 6 (21:48):
There often I think with sort of the random shootings,
we all have this moment's pause and then we go
on and forget about it, you know, a couple thoughts
and prayers, but not unlike.
Speaker 7 (22:09):
Ronald Reagan's shooting.
Speaker 6 (22:11):
Like, I think that's the last time we've dealt with
something like this, certainly at the presidential level, and it
will become a part of Yeah, I think all of
our history.
Speaker 1 (22:25):
And Courtney hope, Britt, I assumed that that shooting of
Ronald Reagan was before you were born.
Speaker 10 (22:30):
Well before it, yes.
Speaker 7 (22:31):
Yeah, yeah, So thanks Shering.
Speaker 2 (22:36):
Well, how did that, How did that? How did that
feel to you? Courtney?
Speaker 1 (22:39):
I mean, tell us about because there are so many
things we could talk about on this show right now
this week. But I still think that that's such a
monumental thing that we need to take a step back
and say, what's wrong with the tone of our politics
right now?
Speaker 9 (22:55):
Yeah, it was kind of earth chattering in the moment,
like it's something that feels like it could never happen,
and then it happens. And I mean, obviously I understand
things like this have happened in history, but they seem
like things that we're beyond.
Speaker 10 (23:08):
We're not doing this anymore.
Speaker 9 (23:09):
We've become better as a society, as a nation, and
then something catastrophic like this happens.
Speaker 10 (23:15):
Like I was sitting.
Speaker 9 (23:18):
On a train station waiting for by train to come,
and I don't think I'll ever forget that. I'm sure that,
like for the rest of my life, I will remember that.
I mean, it just really felt like times stood still.
Suddenly my phone's blowing up and I can't do anything. Also,
my phone is at like nine percent and I didn't
have anything to charge it with, so they couldn't interact
in the moment, So it's very crazy.
Speaker 10 (23:40):
And then at the same.
Speaker 9 (23:41):
Time, you know, we live in a time where everybody
has their phone, so everyone's then suddenly talking about it,
and it's just it's it's very memorable and still feels
like there's been some kind of shift in the world
since that's happened that I don't know, like we can't
go back to the time before that.
Speaker 1 (23:58):
Steeple, do you think it's possible for politicians with months
to go before an election to actually tone things down
after something like that happened? Yeah, we're in a little
honeymoon period right now where maybe people are talking about unity,
and we heard it from President Biden and we've heard
it from former President Trump as well.
Speaker 2 (24:16):
But do you think that this can last.
Speaker 6 (24:20):
I don't know if it's even lasted. In the four
days since Jeremy, Like, I would love if we could
all say, like, this is the differences from perspectives and issues,
not these people are scum.
Speaker 7 (24:38):
Or these people are X, Y and Z. But now
I think that.
Speaker 6 (24:45):
Hopefully it gives at least some people a moment's pause
in how they are going to present themselves, how we're
going to talk about violence. You concern only say I'm
going to fight for my country, Like that's you know,
there's shouldn't be any word police all of a sudden
(25:07):
along the way. But thinking that we can't get to
this level, we cannot stay at this level. I so
appreciate it when Courtney said that she's optimistic, right because
in some respects since Courtney you outed me as being
old and like remembering Ronald Reagan, Like if you think
(25:29):
most college students, their whole political consciousness.
Speaker 7 (25:33):
Has been in the last eight years, and.
Speaker 6 (25:39):
I think we can get back to a point where
I hope we can.
Speaker 7 (25:46):
Where we can differ. But it's not a blood sport.
Speaker 6 (25:51):
I mean, I've been so deeply disappointed at times with elections,
but it's not a blood sport.
Speaker 7 (25:57):
That means work harder the next time.
Speaker 1 (26:00):
Do you think, because we've heard so many people say that,
you know, the other side is an existential threat to
the country, that democracy is on the line, et cetera,
do you believe that that whatever happens in this election
is going to be either the beginning or the end
of something, or do you believe that we're still pretty
(26:22):
similar to each other, even though we like to point
out our differences.
Speaker 9 (26:26):
I do think that we're still, at the end of
the day, more similar than we are different. Of course,
we have our differences, and we have extreme differences that exist,
but the majority of the Americans sit somewhere in the
middle and they all want roughly the same things. We
just have different ideas about how to get there. And
we have a system. We have a really strong, incredible
(26:47):
system that has lots of checks and balances in place
that will hopefully prevent anything crazy from happening. Sometimes that
process feels really bureau bureaucratic, but that's a good thing.
It's a good thing that it takes us a while
to move things forward because it helps us do them
in a methodical way and prevents us from going way
off the rails. I think, like everything, you know, life
(27:10):
ebbs and flows and politics to too. So that's part
of my optimism as we are in this moment right
now where things are really heightened, but lots of things
are crazy since COVID and so many dynamics that have
contributed to the moment that we're in.
Speaker 10 (27:23):
So again I am I do.
Speaker 9 (27:25):
Really remain optimistic that we will be able to move
on from this moment and in the future we won't
be living here anymore.
Speaker 3 (27:32):
Jeremy, I got to say, I thought the convention was
pretty civil all things considered, and that does include Kid
Rock and whole COVID. They were both very feasible.
Speaker 1 (27:42):
By the way Kid Rock at the Republican convention. For
those who have not been watching wal to Wall coverage
or listening to Walt to Wall coverage of it, kid
Rock saying a new song, I guess that it was
based on Trump pumping his fist in the air after
he was shot and saying fight, fight, fight. Now, it
is interesting that if we're talking about unity that the
word that's being used is fight. But that is that
(28:05):
is that is the sort of the slogan right now, Courtney,
would you say of this convention is like fight, fight, fight,
with your.
Speaker 2 (28:12):
Fist in the air.
Speaker 10 (28:14):
Absolutely, it's definitely the energy.
Speaker 2 (28:16):
Yeah. Did you see any problem with that?
Speaker 9 (28:20):
Well? I think that there should be a little bit
of distinction between the extremism that we're seeing, the political extremism,
and just turn to phrase and individual words and terminology
that people use. Of course, those things do you add
up and contribute to a moment. But I think honing
in on any specific word that someone uses or brands
(28:40):
is not the problem that has gotten us to where
we are today. It's the sentiments behind the words. I
think you can use lots of words. We say things
like that all the time, we say things like fight.
I know Biden has gotten in a lot of hot
water recently about having said that we should put Trump
in the bull's eye, right. You know, I don't think
that he meant that as an actual bulls eye. I
(29:02):
think that's just a turn of phrase, and I don't
think that's what's contributing to this moment.
Speaker 10 (29:07):
We can't point to that.
Speaker 9 (29:08):
If we could, it would be a whole lot easier
to fix this. It's these sentiments and these feelings that
there are other Americans who just cannot do not want
the same things as us. They see a different vision
for America, and they don't like us. I think there's
this feeling among some Americans that their fellow Americans want
their failure and don't want the same things as them.
(29:28):
So I think the core of this is reigniting the
belief that we actually do want a lot of the
same things, finding those areas of commonality, and then debating
about how we get there.
Speaker 1 (29:39):
Well, just days after he survived an assassination attempt for president,
Trump accepted the Republican nomination for president for a third time.
Speaker 3 (29:47):
Tolliver, Yeah, here's Trump speaking as the twenty twenty four
Republican National Convention wrapped up in Milwaukee.
Speaker 8 (29:54):
I am running to be president for all of America,
not half America, because there is no victory in winning
for half of America. So tonight, with faith and devotion,
I proudly accept your nomination for President of the United States.
Speaker 1 (30:19):
Former President Trump speaking at the Republican National Convention in Milwaukee,
and we'll be right back with.
Speaker 2 (30:25):
More of the Middle. This is the Middle. I'm Jeremy Hobson.
Speaker 1 (30:29):
This hour, we're asking you what can we do to
improve the tone of our politics while recognizing the stakes
of the upcoming election. You can call us at eight
four four four Middle. That's eight four four four six
four three three five three. You can also reach out
to us at listen to Themiddle dot com. I am
joined by former Montana Governor Steve Bullock and Courtney Hope Britt,
(30:50):
chair of the College Republican National Committee. And if you
are a regular listen to the Middle and you say.
Speaker 2 (30:54):
Where are the callers?
Speaker 1 (30:56):
Well, as we go live to the air, we are
going live right after the Trump speech at the Republican
National Committee, which went a bit long, and so that's
why there are no callers if you're listening to us live.
But maybe he's done now, so maybe we're about to
get some eight four four for Middle.
Speaker 2 (31:15):
That's a four four four sixty four three three five three.
Speaker 1 (31:17):
Steve, if somebody is listening to this on an individual level,
what can somebody do to improve the tone of our politics?
Speaker 7 (31:27):
So I think a couple of things.
Speaker 6 (31:28):
First of all, I agree with Courtney inasmuch is that
we share a lot more in common than what divides us.
And then most people write their lives are too hectic
for politics. But we do want some of the same things, right.
Everybody wants a decent paycheck that'll pay the bills, maybe
even leave a little left over at the end.
Speaker 7 (31:50):
Everybody wants a roof over.
Speaker 6 (31:51):
Their head, a safe community, clean air, clean water, the
belief you can do better for your kids and grandkids
than yourself. Like, that's what we should I'll be talking about.
But so what can the as you say, sort of
the on the sidelines Americans do maybe to try to
improve it. Look, there are things that with media literacy
(32:15):
and journalism. There's some talk about electoral reform overall of
you know, if all of these districts weren't so safely
red or safely blue. When I was graduated from college,
one hundred and thirty five congressional districts could go either way.
Speaker 7 (32:34):
Now I think it's twenty five.
Speaker 6 (32:36):
Wow, And I think we should ask more as consumers
of politics, like be willing to say that's not right,
Like we are better than this as a party and
as a country, so much of it ends up though
(33:00):
unfortunately the incentives aren't all there correct for those running
for office or those serving in an office, and not
enough folks will stand up and say, like, I'll never
forget right John McCain saying, don't say that about Barack Obama.
Speaker 7 (33:17):
He's actually a fine man.
Speaker 1 (33:18):
To the woman at one of his rallies who got
up and said he was a terrorist or something like that,
and McCain said, no, that's not true.
Speaker 6 (33:27):
And those are the moments that we all need to elevate, right,
that we all need to say that that's what we
want to lead. But the overall system, I think de
emphasizes and disincentivizes that.
Speaker 1 (33:47):
What about you, Courtney, what do you think individuals can
do on this front? I think you're muted, Courtney, Go ahead.
Speaker 10 (34:01):
Sorry about that.
Speaker 9 (34:03):
I think there's a lot of things that individuals can
do to help move away from the extremest environment that
we're currently in. Number One, for people who are really
into politics, who are partisans, when you see something from
the other side that triggers you take a second to
take a step back and remember that that's a real person,
(34:24):
and especially online, like don't go into this mode of
getting ready to attack, but take a second to be like, wait,
why do they think that way? Let me dig a
little deeper, and sometimes it's whatever they're saying isn't called for,
but you should still try to approach it with some
level of humanity and compassion. Likewise, when you're putting your
(34:46):
own content out as a partisan, I think it's important
to be really mindful to the extent that you can
what words you're using, and especially written communications that you
have a little more time to think through really trying
to choose your words wisely and choose the right tone
that you are coming across in a truly caring, respectful way.
I think that's one area for people who are not
(35:09):
in that sort of scene. Give donate to the people
that are doing that work, that are representing those ideas
that are approaching politics in a respectful manner.
Speaker 10 (35:20):
I know that's like.
Speaker 9 (35:21):
Super easy, or you know, the common thing like money,
but it is true part of you know, the governor
said earlier, one of the reasons that especially elected officials
act in hyper partisan ways is because it helps them
raise money. So if you help contribute to the candidates
that aren't doing the hyper partisan things. You're helping them
(35:41):
resist those temptations, and you're helping them stay afloat. And
if we're able to give to more of those candidates,
more of them will be successful. And then finally, I
think there are other ways to get involved, trying to
really build community and connect with people outside of politics,
and really connect with people who wouldn't necessarily think the
way that you do. Trying to seek that out in
your life so that you can build a community that
(36:04):
is more diverse. I think helps you approach people in
that way. Going to different events for people who I
know this is very much targeted towards people in Middle America,
but if you live in DC, there are lots of opportunities.
We for one, are doing one College Republicans and College
Democrats are putting on an event next week and you
can tune into it. Little self promotion here, but you
can tune into it. We'd love to have you so
(36:27):
that kind of thing, to really try and seek that out.
I think there are ways that we can all individually
engage in breaking down some of the hyper partisan rhetoric.
Speaker 1 (36:37):
Host interlude here, Governor Bullock, I want to ask you
a question that is not about this. But while we
have you on this program, I'm going to put you
on the spot here. We've said a lot has happened
in the last couple months. A lot could happen between
now and the election. There's a strong push right now
within the Democratic Party for President Biden to announce that
he's not running.
Speaker 2 (36:57):
For reelection this year.
Speaker 1 (37:00):
Your colleague in Montana, John Tester, who's running for reelection
in the Senate, came out and said he thinks Biden
should not run again. Where do you stand on this?
Speaker 6 (37:11):
Well, one of the things that now, Jeremy, I'm just
a guy that spends time on podcasts with you.
Speaker 4 (37:18):
But.
Speaker 6 (37:20):
I'm not going to be weighing in on the process
needs to work its way out, work its way through.
What I do want to see is a united decision
of where would we be best as a Democratic Party
(37:41):
to win come November. Guy nam mou'd All a long
time ago said right, when Democrats organize a fire and squad,
we do it in a circle. So we've seen a
lot of that as of late. And I just right
before I got on, saw that Tester's thing. Tester's quote,
and I'm still going to keep my powder dry. For
(38:04):
at least a little bit while longer, because okay, ultimately
it is the way the process works. It's President Biden's decision,
this decision to de estimate Courtney.
Speaker 2 (38:18):
You're at the convention in Milwaukee. What's the sense there.
Speaker 1 (38:21):
Do people think that President Trump is going to be
running against President Biden this year?
Speaker 9 (38:27):
I think so. I think people think Biden's going to
stick this out. But we're also very much just plugged
into this convention right now. It's been pretty tough to
keep up with what's going on outside of the convention.
This has kind of been my world for the last
few days. I think this name is probably true for
most people. So although I have recently read right before
this actually that there's been some developments this week, I
(38:48):
think that's mostly been missed because we're just kind of
in the Republican zone really getting energized.
Speaker 2 (38:55):
Again. If you're just tuning in, you can call us
if you want.
Speaker 1 (38:58):
You could be our first call of the hour at
a four four four middle that is eight four four
four six four three three five three, or you can
reach out listen to themiddle dot com. Steve Bullock, do
you think that and this is yeah? I don't want
to have this be too much of a softball for you.
But there are probably some listeners who say, well, this
(39:19):
is not really a both sides issue. There is one
side that's being more divisive than the other. Do you
feel that way or do you think that it is
something that both sides are doing.
Speaker 6 (39:34):
I think at times both sides are doing it, certainly.
But going back to sort of what the foundations are
of the norms that we expect. You know, when we
say well, people no longer have any trust in elections,
(39:55):
or people have no longer any trust.
Speaker 7 (39:57):
In the judicial system, that's beyond like the political fights.
Speaker 6 (40:04):
Those are the norms, the rule of a law that
has actually supported along the way. So I do think
when it comes to sort of the the guardrails, there
is one side that's been taking those guardrails off a
little bit more.
Speaker 7 (40:22):
And it's just an interesting time. I was with a
former governor from Idaho.
Speaker 6 (40:28):
Guy named butch Otter fairly recently, and Butcher's rock ribbed Republican.
You know, you served in Congress then he was governor,
and he said, yeah, I got people at home calling
me a socialist, And it was more just because he
was saying, let's protect norms than anything else.
Speaker 2 (40:49):
So, hmm, what do you think? Oh, yeah, go ahead, Toliver.
Speaker 3 (40:57):
Yeah, I was gonna say, I think it's interesting. I
was gonna to ask a question that's sort of like,
when do we think this started. I'm a millennial, I'm
thirty eight, and I actually don't remember it because we
keep talking about a time when politics were civil, but
I actually don't remember that time. Like where did this begin?
I guess we can say Governor Bullock because you're a
few years older than our other guests.
Speaker 1 (41:19):
By the way, Governor Bullock is a very young man, Okay,
and you can't see I can see him.
Speaker 2 (41:24):
I've seen him. He's a very young young man. He's spry.
Speaker 7 (41:28):
Yeah, I look, I think.
Speaker 6 (41:32):
I don't want to put everything back to when I
graduate from college. But I think three things happened at
that point, right. One was the FBC got rid of
what was called the fairness doctrine, and that was like,
you don't have to have equal time on media, but
you actually have to present things in a fair man.
(41:52):
At the time, there was a DJ talk show host
named Rush Limbaugh in Sacramento that said, I'm going to
move to New York. So the media environment changed, the
social media environment like social media should have been here's
people talking to one another, democracy in its best ways,
(42:17):
but instead it became people getting more sort of cabined
or blocked. I think Post Citizens United changed when all
of a sudden, the money comes from the outside and
just the thread of that spending will make groups go
one way or the other.
Speaker 7 (42:40):
So that's where.
Speaker 6 (42:43):
It's not that the political system changed, it's all the
incentives outside the political system that I think changed. It
added to this substantially.
Speaker 1 (42:54):
Courtney, do you see a future Republican party where toned
up rhetoric is less a part of its identity than
it is now?
Speaker 9 (43:04):
Well, I think that's kind of a loaded question that
sort of implacs the Democrats don't also have this problem.
Speaker 10 (43:12):
And again that.
Speaker 9 (43:17):
So I am again, I am hopeful that there is
a time where things are a little bit more focused
on the middle, a little bit more focused on commonalities.
But the nature of the parties and the partisan system
is that they are at odds with one another, and
especially in a country with a two party system, that's
going to be I think amplified because there's really no
(43:39):
way when there's only two parties for the two in
a campaigning sense to do a whole lot together. I
hope that, particularly in the governing side, they do find
some more ways to work together so they can get
a few more things done, which the bar is kind
of low right now.
Speaker 7 (43:55):
You know.
Speaker 1 (43:56):
I was speaking to somebody who used to work for
Senator I believe his name was Jim Jeffords from Vermont,
who switched parties in the George W.
Speaker 2 (44:05):
Bush administration.
Speaker 1 (44:07):
And this person said that he got death threats immediately
after that. And we do hear not just about the
assassination attempts and the actual attacks that happened, but that politicians.
Speaker 2 (44:18):
And I wonder about.
Speaker 1 (44:19):
You, Steve Bullock, if you've ever had that happen before,
that the people are getting death threats all the time
now I.
Speaker 12 (44:26):
Did, and it was interesting even at our front did
at times get death threats. But interesting with the nationalization
of media, like my front desk could tell when somehow
something I did was mentioned on Fox News, just because
all sudden, all these calls are He's such.
Speaker 7 (44:49):
A horrible human being, and you hear more and more.
Speaker 6 (44:55):
And I think that's also with the social media and
the swatting and that that everyone are many I think
members of Congress that you said I'm done. It's like
I came on both sides to do something, it's not
getting done and is it really worth it?
Speaker 7 (45:15):
Now, that's the saddest.
Speaker 6 (45:17):
Thing I think we can ever hear. Because my twelve
years in public office.
Speaker 7 (45:23):
Was a gift. It was a humbling gift to get
to do.
Speaker 6 (45:26):
But if people turn around and say the calculus isn't
worth it for what your family goes through, what you
as an individual goes through, that there are actual real
threats to your personal safety. Like we're so much we
need to be so much better than that as a country.
Speaker 1 (45:45):
By the way, Governor, you now, did you own a
bar in Helena, Montana? Or you just spend a lot
of time there.
Speaker 7 (45:54):
Well, one of the things that I did, Jeremy is.
Speaker 6 (45:59):
My last year not this was COVID and I joked
off and that said, oh, I'd so much rather on
a bar than deal with this, because people are happy
in bars. So I did open a tap house.
Speaker 7 (46:14):
In Helena.
Speaker 6 (46:15):
But also like one of the things that we do
if I'm in town on Monday nights, we have what's
called the soapbox.
Speaker 7 (46:22):
So I'll bring in a speaker.
Speaker 6 (46:24):
I'll talk to them and it can be anything from
high school football coaches to a discussion of anti Semitism,
And it's like, wow, can we model the way that
we can disagree on issues? We did climate change, We've
done a number of things where let's I think back
to Courteney's point of even on social media, take a
(46:46):
breath before you respond. Can we disagree in a more
civil manner? I mean, this would be a good thing. Jareman,
you could probably write it off. You could do the
middle right from Brothers Tap Works on Last Chance Kulture
in Montana.
Speaker 1 (47:01):
Hey, we basically do that soapbox, just without the beer
here on the every week.
Speaker 2 (47:08):
You know, Courtney Hope, Britt.
Speaker 1 (47:10):
I'm going to give the last word to you on this,
just your final thoughts about how we can improve the
tone of our politics.
Speaker 9 (47:18):
I have to reiterate the points I made before that
I really think there's a lot of value in trying
to take a breath, take a pause, and just individually
we all have to take up this mantle. It's not
going to get better in what are we going to
legislate this and make it better? Like that's not going
to fix the system. It has to be a change
of heart, and we have to have a societal shift,
which is going to take a lot of time, a
(47:40):
lot of effort, and it's going to take a lot
of people stepping up to the plate and finding their
better selves and really leaning into that, which isn't easy
to do, and especially when we have all these systems
that are incentivizing the opposite.
Speaker 1 (47:51):
Well, I want to thank my guests, who got more
airtime than any guests on the Middle's History because President
Trump also talked for much longer than expected and we
didn't get any phone calls for the first time in
Middle history. So a lot of first here today Montana
Governor for Montana Governor Steve Bullock and Courtney Hope Britt,
chair of the College National Republican Republican National Committee.
Speaker 2 (48:11):
Thank you so much to both of you for joining us.
Speaker 7 (48:15):
Thank you, Jeremy, thanks and Tolliver.
Speaker 2 (48:17):
You and I are headed to Birmingham, Alabama.
Speaker 3 (48:19):
Oh and I'm so excited. Yeah, we're going to be
doing the show next week from wb HM and Birmingham
with Gow and we're going to be asking about the
role of Christianity in our politics. Around sixty percent of
Americans identify as Christian, but that's down significantly from ninety
percent in the nineties according to the Pew Research Center.
And yet some want Christianity to be even more central
to our lives, putting the Ten Commandments in classrooms, for example.
(48:42):
So if you want to participate in that conversation, give
us a call it eight four four four Middle. That's
eight four four four six four three three five three,
and tell us what you think about the role of
Christianity in our politics.
Speaker 1 (48:51):
Cheer and I will say, by the way, if Biden
drops off the ticket, that probably that show's.
Speaker 2 (48:57):
Going to wait and we're going to do one about that.
Speaker 1 (49:00):
So The Middle is brought to you by Longnok Media,
distributed by Illinois Public Media and Urbana, Illinois and produced
by Joan Jennings, Harrison Viatinio, Danny Alexander, and John Barth.
Our intern is Anika Deshler. Our technical director is Jason Kroft.
Our theme music was composed by Andrew Haigu And thanks
to all the stations making it possible for people across
the country to listen to the Middle, I'm Jeremy Hobson.
Speaker 2 (49:20):
Talk to you next week.
Host
Jeremy Hobson
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