July 26, 2024 • 49 mins
On this episode of The Middle we're asking you: How does Biden's exit and Harris's entrance change your view of the Presidential race? We're joined by Democratic political strategist Yvette Simpson and USA Today Chief Political Correspondent Phillip Bailey. The Middle's house DJ Tolliver joins as well, plus callers from around the country. #election #Biden #Harris #Trump #DNC #VP
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
The Middle is supported by Journalism Funding Partners, a nonprofit
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how you can support The Middle at listen to Themiddle
dot com.
Speaker 2 (00:20):
Welcome to the Middle.
Speaker 1 (00:21):
I'm Jeremy Hobson along with our house DJ Tolliver and Tolliver.
Speaker 2 (00:24):
I was just looking.
Speaker 1 (00:25):
Back to our episode from October twenty sixth of last year.
Speaker 2 (00:29):
Do you remember what question we asked listeners?
Speaker 3 (00:32):
Yeah, that was our Halloween episode. Man, don't you remember
we're all dressed up?
Speaker 1 (00:36):
We asked are our political leaders too old? Which seems
like an interesting topic given what just happened. You can
hear that episode anytime because The Middle is available as
a podcast in partnership with iHeart Podcasts on the iHeart
app or wherever you get your podcasts. But, as you know,
Joe Biden decided that it was time to, in his words,
past the torch to a younger generation. He dropped out
(00:58):
of the race for president after mounting pressure from Democrats
and endorse his vice president Kamala Harris, who very quickly
rallied the party behind her nomination. So while she hasn't
officially gotten the Democratic nomination yet, it almost certainly will
be Harris versus Trump this year. And we want to
know what you, our listeners think about that. And we're
(01:19):
going to get to that in just a moment. But first,
last week we asked you, following the assassination attempt on
former President Trump, how we can turn the temperature down
in our politics. Here are some of the voicemails we got.
Speaker 4 (01:30):
My name is Mike Frontier, Rascine, Wisconsin. Our message is
I think we get to the middle of politicians stopped
fighting for things. What kind of model is that for
our kids?
Speaker 5 (01:41):
Hi?
Speaker 6 (01:41):
This is Anna from Gallaton, Tennessee. And to tone down
kind of just the aggressiveness. I tend to tell people,
I'm just an independent and I feel like not aligning
myself as a Republican or a Democrat tends to have
more open and easygoing discussions on politics.
Speaker 7 (02:01):
Hey, my name is Steves and Colorado. I think the
most important thing that we need to do is for
each side to police each other as extreme.
Speaker 8 (02:10):
What we need is.
Speaker 7 (02:11):
The Conservatives to criticize the far right and the Democrats
to criticize the far left. It's much easier to criticize
the other side than to police.
Speaker 9 (02:21):
Your own party.
Speaker 2 (02:23):
Well, thanks to everyone who called in.
Speaker 1 (02:25):
So now to our question this hour, as I'm calling it, Tolliver,
the old Biden Harris switcheroo.
Speaker 2 (02:31):
Does it change your vote?
Speaker 1 (02:33):
Are you happy with how fast the Democrats rallied behind
Kamala Harris or do you think it was too much
of a coronation? And who should Harris pick as her
vice presidential nominee? That's what we want to hear from you, Tlliver.
What is the number for people to call in?
Speaker 3 (02:46):
It's eight four four four Middle. That's eight four four
four six four three three five three All right to
us that listen to the Middle dot com.
Speaker 2 (02:53):
So let's meet our panel.
Speaker 1 (02:54):
Democratic political strategist Yvette Simpson joins us from Cincinnati. She's
the former executive director of Democracy for America and current
host of the Power of Why podcast. Vett, Great to
have you back on the Middle.
Speaker 10 (03:04):
Glad to be here, especially this week, Jeremy.
Speaker 2 (03:07):
Yeah, it's a big week.
Speaker 1 (03:09):
I mean, there's been so many big weeks so far
in this campaign, but this was definitely one of the
top ones.
Speaker 2 (03:14):
Philip. Great to have you back as well. That's USA Today.
Speaker 1 (03:17):
Chief political correspondent Philip Bailey in Louisville, Kentucky High.
Speaker 9 (03:20):
Philip, Jeremy House, Thanks, going going well.
Speaker 1 (03:23):
So before we get to the phones and they're already
lighting up, Philip, you were with us on that show
when we asked last fall if our political leaders were
too old. There was a lot of pressure on Joe
Biden to do what he did. Now a lot of
praise for him for doing it. How much do you
think that this has changed the race?
Speaker 8 (03:40):
Oh, this is reset the race altogether. This is a
totally different race than we had anticipated. I think, other
than maybe Nicki Haley, no one was really predicting that
Vice President Kamala Harris was going to be the nominee.
So this resets the race in a lot of ways.
We now have a contest where there actually is a
sort of forward thinking, page turning candidate issue that voters
(04:01):
were having for years. Jeremy was they did not want
to see this rematch between two men who were born
before the United Nations were even founded. So now that
we have a candidate who was born on the other
side right of the Korean War, I think there is
going to be a conversation about turning that page forward.
Now Trump is the old candidate and we have an
(04:22):
untested candidate though two on the Democratic side, Harris. As
we all remember, she dropped out before the first vote
was taken in twenty twenty. She's never lost a contest
in her entire career. But this resets the race altogether,
and I think it sets a new ground and a
whole new set of rules for.
Speaker 9 (04:38):
How we go forward.
Speaker 2 (04:39):
What do you think, how has this changed the race?
Speaker 10 (04:42):
Oh, it's changed everything. I think when the debate happened,
and I think there were already people who were kind
of wondering whether he would be able to handle the
brunt of a campaign where he would have to move
around and help support the entire ticket, whether he was
going to be able to make it through that. And
I think after the debate it was very clear we
need energy, we need someone who can give us a
(05:05):
fresh start, we need the next generation. And my question
kept being one is he going to do it? And
two how long is he going to wait? Because I
didn't want to go into the convention in Chicago and
have a question about that and let that be a
ball in the air. You really don't want that. So
the fact that he did it in the timing that
he did took the wind out of the bullet in
the year sales that Trump was having, and it shifted
(05:29):
the conversation this week to our new exciting candidate. And
the hope and the expectation is that by the time
we get to Chicago as a party, we're singing kumbaya.
It's about, hey, how are we going to get this done.
Let's get her voted in, and let's keep it moving.
Speaker 1 (05:44):
But have you heard of that from Democrats who wanted
more of a contest and who are worried about Harris's
ability to win.
Speaker 10 (05:51):
I have not heard a lot of that. There have
been very few de factors that I've heard from. And
I think part of that is because she should have
been the one. Right constitutionally, she succeeds the president. You
can't serve she's the only other Democrat that was on
the ballot. Legitimately in all primary states, she might have
been in the second position, but she was on the
ballot the entire time, and so it was important that
(06:12):
it be her. My fear was that they were going
to try to have an open convention and let it
be anybody's game, which would have been very challenging. I
think Black women would have had a lot of problem
with that. I think Asian American women would have had
a lot of problem with that, and there would have
been some folks who are real party our based would
have struggled with that a bit. So I think actually
anyone who's concerned about it now, I just wonder why,
(06:33):
especially since she's raised a ton of money, which she
kind of does. She did that when she came in
on the VP ticket, and she's also gotten a lot
of momentum just since this happened earlier this week.
Speaker 1 (06:45):
So I have to say that as we were getting
ready for the show, I was so excited to hear
what our callers have to say about this, because we've
heard what the elected politicians think about this, and we've
certainly heard what the pundits think.
Speaker 2 (06:56):
But let's get to a caller.
Speaker 1 (06:58):
Spencer is on the line from Pittsburgh, a swing state. Spencer,
what do you think of this change?
Speaker 11 (07:05):
Yeah, so, personally, first off, thanks for having me on.
I'm actually quite glad about it. Beforehand, I didn't want
to vote for either Trump nor Biden. I think Trump
was too radically going to his side, trying to make
people fired up for him. And I thought Biden was
quite frankly a milk toast, just liberal and went with
(07:26):
whatever came his way. But I think Kamla is a
lot more of a centrist, a lot more willing to
see both sides and frankly allowing the thoughts for both
sides to kind of push her to wherever the American
people are going to want her to be. And so
I went from wanting to vote for RFK Junior an independent,
(07:47):
I wanted to vote for Kamala.
Speaker 1 (07:48):
Interesting, Spencer, thanks so much, Philip Bailey. That's interesting that
he's talking about RFK Junior. I wonder how many people
are like Spencer out there.
Speaker 9 (07:58):
Well, thank you.
Speaker 8 (07:58):
We saw a New York Times Siena pole released today
and it shows that, you know, in a one on
one race, Trump is still slightly ahead of Harris, but
then when it's the multi candidate race with RFK, she
actually takes the lead, and again this scrambles the race altogether.
Every everything before Biden has to be discarded, right, all
(08:19):
the polls.
Speaker 1 (08:19):
All the middle shows that we did, we have to
just throw out from every middle episode.
Speaker 9 (08:25):
That's all gone.
Speaker 8 (08:26):
Maybe, And I think what you're gonna see is another
thing that we're gonna see is we're gonna see a
group of young people who are fourteen, fifteen, sixteen, four
years ago in the midst of the pandemic, who are
now adults. Those young people are going to be inspired
I think a lot more by a fifty nine year
old Kamala Harris, who reminds them of their auntie, right,
who reminds them of their professional auntie who's out here
(08:46):
pursuing her career. They're gonna be inspired. We're already seeing
a surge in young people registering to vote no surprise, duh, Democrats.
Maybe an eighteen year old a little more inspired by
a fifty nine year old running than an eighty one
year old running. So I think we're going to see
not only young people who are going to come in
who are going to see this as their historic moment.
Remember she's a historic candidate. We've only had jeremy four
(09:08):
women in our history on the ballot at the vice
presidential president level, jerremin Ferraro, Sarah Palin, Hillary Clinton, and
now Kamala Harris. So for that whole entire generation, particularly
of young professional women of color, Black, Asian, Hispanic, etc.
This is very much to them the same thing that
the Obama movement was sixteen years ago.
Speaker 1 (09:30):
Let's go to Nishe, who's in Columbia, South Carolina. Nishe,
tell us what you think about this change on the
Democratic side.
Speaker 12 (09:37):
I am very happy that Biden stepped down. I was
not going to vote this election. I did look into
Robert Kennedy and there were just some reservations there. But
I'm sixty two years old and I was not going
to vote this election, which that was the first time ever.
And I wasn't particularly of of Harris. But I've got
(10:02):
to tell you exactly what your guest said about how
nobody wanted to see a rematch between Biden and Trump.
And when Biden stepped down and Kamala Harris was put forward,
she is your parents. The enthusiasm it has just been contagious,
and I am all on board with Kamala Harris. At
this point I even.
Speaker 1 (10:22):
Said money already, wow, Anisha, thank you for that. Evette Simpson.
That must be good to hear as a Democratic strategist.
Speaker 10 (10:29):
I'm beaming yes and amen, yes and amen. You know,
and I want to be respectful to bide him. He
had an amazing career. We do have to give him
its just due. But I do think we have been
talking a lot about energy. We have been talking about
setting the new stage, and I think Kamala presents that
we'll call her Mamala since she called her Auntie Kamala.
Mamla creates a whole new energy. And I think seeing
(10:53):
folks who might have not shown up, or folks who
would have voted for RFK Junior switch over is exactly
why this decision had to be made, Because we had
the folks who said, you know, those voters who didn't
want either candidate. Now we're getting those guys over on
Kalala's team.
Speaker 1 (11:09):
By the way, Philip mentioned eighteen year olds, we often
have eighteen year olds call into the show.
Speaker 2 (11:13):
If you're out there eight four four four Middle Tolliver.
Speaker 1 (11:16):
You know, history may not exactly repeat itself, but it
sure does come up with some crazy coincidences sometimes.
Speaker 3 (11:21):
Yeah, man, my hometown of Chicago is actually going to
host the DNC convention once again. And back in sixty
eight when the DNC was also in Chicago, President Lyndon
Johnson similarly announced that he would not accept the nomination.
Speaker 13 (11:33):
I do not believe that I should devote an hour
or day of my time to any personal partisan causes,
or to any duties other than the aweshome duties of
this office, the presidency of your country. Accordingly, I shall
(11:54):
not see and I will not accept the nomination of
my party for another term, as you're a president.
Speaker 1 (12:02):
So interesting to hear that in especially, Tolliver, after Biden
gave a very similar speech from.
Speaker 2 (12:08):
The Oval Office.
Speaker 1 (12:09):
Stay right there, We've got more coming up on the Middle.
This is the Middle. I'm Jeremy Hobson. If you're just tuning,
in the Middle is a national call in show. We're
focused on elevating voices from the middle geographically, politically, and philosophically,
or maybe you just want to meet in the middle.
This hour, we're asking you, how does Biden's exit from
the race and Harris's entrance change your views or your vote? Tulliver,
(12:32):
what's the number for people to call in?
Speaker 3 (12:34):
It's eight four four four Middle. That's eight four four
four sixty four three three five three. You can also
write to us and listen to the Middle dot com
or on social media.
Speaker 1 (12:42):
I'm joined by USA Today Chief political correspondent for Philip
Bailey and political strategist Yvette Simpson.
Speaker 2 (12:47):
And before we get back to the.
Speaker 1 (12:48):
Phones, Yvett, how do the issues at play in this
election change because of the switch? Are there things that
we're going to be hearing more about and things that
we're going to be hearing less about than when it
was Trump Biden.
Speaker 10 (12:59):
I think the age question is flipped. We talked about that.
I think women. So I just got a text message
from somebody who's on the call that Shennon Watts is
holding with Mom's demand one hundred and thirty six thousand
women on a call right now. They just raised one
point one million dollars and the call just started. So
women are a new playground because of the abortion band
things that were happening before, and we used to struggle
(13:20):
to get suburban white women. I think that conversation changes significantly.
I think we have a conversation about the future. If
I'm Kamala, I'm like taking credit for all the good
things that happened in the first four years. I'm also saying, hey,
here's how we're going to do something different which will
allow her to kind of shake a little bit. As
GOP is trying to hold her to some of the
policies that they think are damaging. So I think it's
(13:40):
a great opportunity for her. I hope we talk about
marijuana legalization and removing you know, the guys out of prison,
the guys and ladies out of prison, on those things,
because I know how she feels about that. She's supportive
of that, So I want to see her.
Speaker 2 (13:53):
And we didn't hear much about that for Biding either.
Speaker 10 (13:56):
We didn't and we should have. We should have. Yeah,
I say, Ohio as a twenty six to legalize and
we're a red state, So I think we're ready to
have that conversation for sure.
Speaker 1 (14:05):
Philip, We've heard about some of the positives for Democrats
about Kamala Harris.
Speaker 2 (14:09):
She's certainly younger and more energetic.
Speaker 1 (14:10):
She's more comfortable talking about abortion rights, which is something
that has energized Democrats.
Speaker 2 (14:14):
What are as you look at this as a.
Speaker 1 (14:16):
Political reporter, what are the initial weaknesses of Kamala Harris
as a candidate?
Speaker 8 (14:21):
Well, I think I mean, you know, Vice President Harris
is markedly to the left of President Biden on a
lot of issues. She has given many interviews in the
past where she's been caught flat footed on questions about
to fund the police, abolishing ice, some of her larger,
I think views on criminal justice and prosecutions. You're already
seeing President Trump telegraphed at a rally this week.
Speaker 9 (14:43):
Saying no more mister Niskay.
Speaker 8 (14:45):
Not that necessarily ever was one, but his campaign is
telegraphed that they are going to go hard to the
paint against Vice President Harris in these sort of Willy
Horton style ads.
Speaker 9 (14:55):
I think you're going to.
Speaker 8 (14:56):
See a lot of her prosecutorial record from San Francisco
when she was the DA in San Francisco, as Attorney
General in California. Wow, those issues are going to be
brought back up. I think Harris may be better prepared
this go round, but she historically has not always been
best on her feet in some of these interviews and
caught on some of these more controversial issues. So she's
marketly to the left of Biden. I think that's our
(15:16):
biggest weakness there.
Speaker 1 (15:18):
Let's go to Andrew, who is in Greensboro, North Carolina. Andrew,
welcome to the middle.
Speaker 14 (15:22):
Go ahead, Hey, thanks for having me on. I just
wanted to call in and say that I am actually
very excited about her taking the reins for this election.
I am a registered Republican and have been my whole life.
I'm thirty years old, but I find myself on the
(15:44):
probably the left wing of the Republican Party, and this election,
I was feeling like I'm very much left behind by
the current Republican Party that's become the Party of Trump. So,
you know, I was kind of trying to balance whether
I wanted to stay on election day or go vote
for Joe Biden, who I didn't have a lot of
confidence in. But you know, then I reflected on my
(16:08):
privilege as a white man and how another Trump can
might affect other people who are, you know, not the
thanosition I am. And and now that now that Kamala
Harris is going to likely be the nominee, I'm certainly
going to the polls and I'll be casting my ballots
for her, despite what my registration card says.
Speaker 1 (16:28):
Okay, well, so just let me ask you a quick
follow up. Because of your Republican registration card, do you
want her to pick a Republican as her vice presidential
running mate or would or do you care?
Speaker 14 (16:40):
You know, to be honest, I don't really care. I mean,
I don't think a lot of people in her own
party would would really appreciate that. So for me, it's
not super important as long as it's not someone who
is I would say, you know, extremely car left.
Speaker 15 (16:55):
But I'm going to be.
Speaker 14 (16:55):
Voting for her regardless because of my concerns about Trump
and Project twenty five and other things like that.
Speaker 2 (17:01):
Right, Andrew, thank you if that you don't think it's likely.
Speaker 1 (17:05):
I assume that she will that Kamala Harris will pick
a Republican to be her VP.
Speaker 10 (17:09):
No, I think that's like zero to zero point five.
I think we know what the ticket looks like, you know,
with the candidates potential candidates look like based on those
governors who and leaders who are in those swing states.
I actually like Josh Shapiro. I think he's got a
lot of energy. I think he's he's Obama Esque in
the way is Caden's in some of the ways that
(17:31):
he talks. He's relatively new, so he'll have to be vetted.
But what he reflects I think is what happens after her.
She does two terms, he can be the next president.
I like him. He's my favorite.
Speaker 1 (17:40):
Right now, let's go to Amber, who is in Arvada, Colorado. Hi, Amber,
Welcome to the middle go.
Speaker 16 (17:45):
Ahead, Hi, thanks for having me. Yeah, so, I guess,
you know, as far as the subject goes, one thing
I'm worried about is Kamala Harris's electability and just how
fast everybody kind of jumped on the train as far
as yep, she's the nominee. And at this point, I mean,
it's from everything I've been hearing in the news, it
(18:06):
sounds like she's basically for all intents and purposes, that's it.
And it just happened so fast. And I guess my
concerns are that I feel like she is going to
attract certain Democrat demographics of voters, particularly I think younger people,
(18:27):
and historically, you know, it's older people that tend to vote.
And unfortunately, I do think there is still a lot
of misogyny and racism, and you know, I just I
wonder how much that is going to affect this because
I feel like there are probably people out there that
just the sheer fact that she is black and that
(18:47):
she is a woman, there.
Speaker 14 (18:48):
Are just not going to vote for her no matter what.
Speaker 16 (18:52):
And how does that how does how is that counterbalance?
Speaker 17 (18:56):
I guess with the new voters that she will a tract.
Speaker 2 (19:00):
And yeah, well, yt me, let me take that. Let
me take that to Philip Bailey. The lot there.
Speaker 1 (19:09):
One thing is that Joe Biden actually did do very
well with older voters that was sort of his base
and in some ways, and also what about the question
of whether the fact that Kamala Harris is so many firsts,
a black woman, an Indian American woman, a woman, is
that How worried, Philip are Democrats about that?
Speaker 8 (19:30):
Well, let's unpack this right over that three week period.
I think we're going to look back at that period
after the debate with astonishment. There was this conversation, and
I think the Democratic Party, it's big weeks, it's mega donors,
it's leaders got a very clear message, particularly from African
American women, professional African American women who know a think
of two about being passed over, that if you do this,
there won't be anyone who will support number one number two.
(19:53):
I think people are are right to have some squeamishness
or some skittishness about Harris's viability.
Speaker 9 (20:00):
Right, this is an.
Speaker 8 (20:01):
Election in which, look, we're gonna have a lot of history. First,
a lot of these things are at the forefront. I think
the Harris campaign's response to that is, let's go, let's
have let's have this conversation, let's.
Speaker 9 (20:10):
Have this debate that she's building a new coalition.
Speaker 8 (20:13):
Altogether, it's going to be LGBTQYA plus people, it's gonna
be young people, it's gonna be middle class whites and
working class whites. She's gonna have to put together a
different type of coalition. She's gonna have to probably get
Jeremy ninety five, ninety three, ninety five percent of the
African American vote.
Speaker 9 (20:29):
Let's remember the twenty twelve model for Barack Obama.
Speaker 8 (20:32):
Barack Obama, who we all thought wasn't gonna be re
elected in twenty twelve, only got thirty nine percent of
the white vote.
Speaker 9 (20:40):
And that's what many will point.
Speaker 8 (20:41):
To as the sort of backlashing creation of not just
the Tea Party movement, but the MAGA movement itself. So
in many ways, I think you're going to see Harris
model that same that same kind of coalition and who
she picks as her vice president. Maybe that final point here,
I guess would be Latasha Brown, a black voters matter
made the point of maybe she needs to pick a
non white male, but I think the Harris campaign is
clearly telegraphed that that's going to be who they're looking
(21:03):
for to balance that ticket. But we're not there yet,
but I think this is going to be a big
test for the country well.
Speaker 1 (21:08):
And already one of the non white males that was
being talked about, Wes Moore, the governor of Maryland, has
come out and said he wouldn't.
Speaker 2 (21:15):
Be interested, which I always find interesting.
Speaker 1 (21:18):
That somebody would say they wouldn't be if somebody called
you up and said you want to be the vice president, Like, now,
this isn't really for me.
Speaker 2 (21:24):
Let's go to.
Speaker 1 (21:25):
Eliza, who is in Carrie, North Carolina. Eliza, welcome to
the middle.
Speaker 2 (21:30):
What do you think?
Speaker 18 (21:31):
Hi, thank you so much for having me.
Speaker 16 (21:33):
So.
Speaker 18 (21:34):
I'm twenty two and I just graduated from college and
this is my second presidential election that I'm voting in,
and I can just say from the difference between this
election and the last so far, it just feels incredible.
Since Kamala has joined the race, and I think speaking
from the perspective of me and my friends, there's just
(21:56):
a lot more energy and excitement and enthusiasm to vote
for her. Last time around, there was a lot of
dread and a lot of this kind of feeling that
it was our duty to vote for Joe Biden, but
there was no excitement behind it, kind of just like
get it out of the way. And now I think
that feels very, very different. The last couple days, I mean,
social media has been flooded with all sorts of videos
(22:19):
and jokes and means about Kamala Harris and it's just it.
You can't get away from it, and it feels really
refreshing and exciting.
Speaker 2 (22:28):
Eliza.
Speaker 1 (22:29):
Let me just ask you one quick thing. You're in
the state of North Carolina. The governor Roy Cooper has
been talked about as a possible running mate for Kamala Harris.
Would that make any difference to you at all? As
somebody in North Carolina.
Speaker 18 (22:39):
I mean, I will be voting for Calmlala either way,
but I think I would just be over the moon
if Roy Cooper was chosen. I'm really happy that I
got to vote for Roy Cooper, you know, last term.
And he's won two statewide elections in North Carolina, both
times in twenty sixteen and twenty twenty. When the state
went for Trump and he still won as a Democrat,
(23:00):
so I mean, I think he's incredible. I think he's
done an incredible job as a governor of our state.
Speaker 1 (23:05):
Eliza, thank you so much for that call, Tolliver. I
know that there's more coming in on social media and
into our email box.
Speaker 3 (23:12):
Absolutely. Albert writes, I'm happy with the turn of events.
The Right have charted a dark course for this country,
taking us back instead of forward.
Speaker 9 (23:18):
My pick for.
Speaker 3 (23:19):
VP would be Liz Cheney, although that is rather unlikely,
Gene writes from Vermont. Kamala Harris says she is one
hundred percent in alignment with Biden stands on Gaza, so
I'm not sure I can support her either. I wish
we had a real choice, but it appears all of
DC blind about Israel's actions and that one I was
really interested in because I know that on my side
of the internet people are really waiting to hear something
(23:40):
for soul about Gaza from Kamala Harris, So I don't
know what you two have to see about.
Speaker 1 (23:44):
And if ed Simpson she did talk about she had
a little mini press availability and talked about the situation
in Israel.
Speaker 2 (23:52):
After meeting.
Speaker 1 (23:53):
I think with the Prime Minister NETANYAHUO from Israel, who's
visiting Washington.
Speaker 2 (23:58):
Is there.
Speaker 1 (23:59):
How how does this change the calculation from the Democrats,
many of whom called into this show and said, I
can't vote for Biden because of Gaza.
Speaker 10 (24:07):
Yeah. Well, one, he's promised he's going to finish that
up before January, which we all know is gonna happen. Right,
He's going to wrap that little thing up. Joe Biden says,
We're gonna have that little war thing wrapped up before
I leave, but probably not before the election. I think
Kamala has been you know, she's supported by progressives, she's
supported by the middle of the party. I think she's
(24:27):
gonna have to walk the line. A lot has changed.
We talked about this when we did the Middle East
show since that war started, and so I think a
lot more people are calling for ceasefire now, a lot
more people want the destiny and a lot more people
want to find resolution. So I think she has the
benefit of time. And as we continue to have conversations
about that, we have to remember her husband is Jewish,
(24:47):
so it's really important to remember that Doug has a
voice on this too, also a progressive for what it
sends to be kind of progressive like her, but her
husband's perspective is important too. I remember hearing just yes
or today they were saying, well, Kamala wouldn't take a
meeting with net and Yahoo. She doesn't care about Jewish people.
And somebody says her husband is actually Jewish, so it's
(25:08):
not like she does not care. So it'll be interesting
to see how she threads that needle going forward. If
I'm her, though, I would let Joe Biden take this one.
Let him take it for now, and then I think
what we've got is the benefit of time because more
people are calling for fewer deaths and the end to
this war.
Speaker 1 (25:28):
Let's go to Claude, who is in Overland Park, Kansas. Claude,
welcome to the middle. What do you think about this change?
Speaker 15 (25:35):
Thank you very much.
Speaker 19 (25:36):
I think Kamala Harris can win the election by differentiating
herself from both Biden and Trump and moving more toward
the middle and side quick ways. One is by taking
the shackles off Zelensky and Ukraine so that he can
bomb Russian supply lines, et cetera, and that's just his
own country. Secondly, a broader position and energy so that
(25:58):
we're not telling our allies the world countries that they
have to depend upon oil from Iran and Russia. Thirdly,
more targeted tariffs to help reduce inflation. And then fit
for the border, a more balanced position on the border,
steal the border, and then you can have the amnesty
that will focus the discussion on Trump's terrible deportation idea.
(26:22):
And then fifth a little more positive on schools. Positive
supporting charity schools, not necessarily full choice, but supporting the
charity schools. Those will really help her win the election.
Speaker 2 (26:33):
Thank you, Claude, thank you, Yeah, thank you.
Speaker 1 (26:35):
And Philip Bailey about the issue of whether she will
go to the base or go to the middle. Now,
what do you expect from Kamala Harris? What is she
going to do as she launches this campaign.
Speaker 8 (26:48):
Well, I think that the Vice president is going to
try tow the line on some of these issues, but
on others, I think she can't deny that she is
again marketly to the left of Joe Biden on a
lot of these things. Right, she was a sendative from California, right,
not Texas, not Florida, not Ohio. She was a senator
from the state of California. So look, I think, for example,
on the Gaza issue, it was her. She was the
(27:09):
first to sort of distinguish herself, speaking at the Edmund
Pettis Bridge in some Alabama, casting.
Speaker 9 (27:15):
This as a moral issue.
Speaker 8 (27:16):
She Diday I think made another example of that, saying
while she denounced the burning of the American flag and
the defacing of certain federal properties, she said that she
was very clear with net in Yahoo that he needs
to wrap this up with the death toll in Gaza,
which is I think an atrocious sort of human rights violation,
an issue for a lot.
Speaker 9 (27:33):
Of people who, even if they still see what.
Speaker 8 (27:36):
Happened on October seventh as a violation as well, they
sort of balance those things out and say, hey, look
there's a moral issue here.
Speaker 9 (27:41):
She spoke to that. I think one thing that she's going.
Speaker 8 (27:43):
To absolutely speak to is childcare and cast that in
very much the same way that healthcare was cast by
former President Obama, talking about the rise of that cost,
which affects.
Speaker 9 (27:52):
Men and women alike.
Speaker 8 (27:53):
And again, the reproductive rights changes the ballgame. A Republican
women get abortions too. She has leaned into that issue.
She was the first major candidate of major official to
visit a planned parenthood clinic. So I don't think she's
going to necessarily go to the middle as much as
she's going to talk about issues that invigorate progressives that
they feel like Joe Biden really there's some left on
(28:14):
the table and said, oh, it's my obligation.
Speaker 9 (28:15):
To vote for you.
Speaker 1 (28:16):
Okay, before we go to a break, I asked for
an eighteen year old and I got one. Joshua is
with us from Charleston, South Carolina. Joshua quickly tell us
what you think?
Speaker 20 (28:26):
So how I feel as a new eighteen year old
voter who's going to be, you know, as you guys
mentioned earlier in the show, someone who's lived through the
pandemic and is getting their first chance to really have
their voice heard in the voting scheme of the country.
Speaker 15 (28:41):
I feel that.
Speaker 20 (28:44):
Possible President Harris running against former President Trump will be
a really interesting battle because she is somebody who we
haven't really seen before really have a chance against Trump.
Inside of the race. Trump betting on Trump versus Biden
definitely had a lot of younger voters kind of if
(29:05):
he not really wanting someone who's the age of your
grandfather versus the age of another grandfather, but now someone who,
as y'all mentioned, the age of an anti someone who's
younger and has that different stance not only on economic
policy and just ideals within the parties, but now differences
(29:26):
in age and energy and how long they can last.
Actually living completely through a presidency is something that really
swayed me from being more in between. Oh, I don't
know which one I really like more. I've was raised
more Democratic, but I was kind of iffy. I found
issues with both which I didn't necessarily.
Speaker 1 (29:47):
We got to leave it there, Joshua, because we're running
out of time, But thank you so much for that call, Tolliver.
You know, one of the things that we have been
seeing this week talking abou Kamala Harris is Joe Biden
basically ending his long career right in front of us.
Speaker 3 (30:01):
Yeah, and this man is so experienced. This is even
the first time he stepped away from running for president.
Listen to this from nineteen eighty seven.
Speaker 21 (30:08):
There will be other presidential campaigns, and I'll be there, Oliphant,
I'll be there. There will be other opportunities, there will
be other battles in other places other times, and I'll
be there. This country's going to be lifted up, and
I'm gonna play a big part in doing it.
Speaker 1 (30:27):
Of course, I guess one big difference there, Tolliver, is
that Biden when he made that announcement was not the president,
which he is now. Pretty extraordinary to see a president
decide to not run.
Speaker 2 (30:38):
For re election.
Speaker 1 (30:39):
We'll be right back with more of the middle. This
is the Middle. I'm Jeremy Hobson. This hour, we're asking you,
does the Biden exit and Harris entrance into the race
change your views or your vote? Call us at eight
four four four Middle. That's eight four four four six
four three three five three. You can also reach out
to us at Listen to the Middle dot com. Before
(30:59):
we get to the funds, Philip, we've talked about a
couple of vice presidential possibilities. One is in your state,
Andy Basheer, the governor. Do you think that that's likely
or do you think it's going to be somebody like
a Mark Kelly or as if that wants a Josh Shapiro.
Speaker 8 (31:13):
Well, I think that governor Andy Basheer my home state governor,
and checked my Bluegrass bias on here, Jeremy, he's absolutely
in the top five talking to different sources in and
out of the Harris campaign. He has certainly someone that
the Harris people are kicking the tires on. It's been
confirmed today by The Courier Journal of the paper I
used to work at, that he is being vetted.
Speaker 9 (31:33):
I think that, you.
Speaker 8 (31:34):
Know, the issue for Bashir will obviously be that he
can talk the talk. He can talk to Appalachia folks,
he can talk to working class whites. He's won three
state wide elections in a state you know that Donald
Trump won.
Speaker 9 (31:45):
One important factor.
Speaker 8 (31:46):
Take a county like Breathett County right in eastern Kentucky County.
Donald Trump won that county by about fifty something points
against Biden.
Speaker 9 (31:54):
Andy Basheer won by about twenty something points. However, the problems.
Speaker 8 (31:57):
For Andy but Sheer is that, you know, Kentucky is
not a swing state by any measure, It's going to
be lockstep with Donald Trump. So if Harris is looking
for someone who can make her more competitive in those
swing states than the Joshapiro A Mark Kelly Senter Mark
Kelly of Arizona, I think it's rise to the top
of that list someone of like Roy Cooper. But I
think certainly my Bluegrass Boy Andy Basheer is in the
runnings like any good horse race from horse race from Kentucky.
Speaker 1 (32:23):
Let's go to Tom, who's in the Twin Cities in Minnesota.
Speaker 2 (32:27):
Tom, Welcome to the middle, go ahead.
Speaker 22 (32:30):
Hi, thank you very much for inviting me in and
anyone who's willing to listen to me. I guess every
party needs a pooper, right, So here's my message. I'm
really really disappointed in the Democratic Party for taking this
approach of just going with the so predictable handing of
the reins over to the boringly predictable heir apparent vice president,
(32:51):
who I, in my experience, is a very divisive character.
I hang around with a lot of liberal Republicans and
they just really don't like as a person. You know,
we can always get into facts, but that's one of
the facts. And I think it's a huge loss or
a whiff or a myth on the opportunity for the
Democratic Party to truly energize their base and potential people
(33:14):
that might join the base via really just a simple
kind of a debate tournament at the DNC next month.
Speaker 1 (33:20):
Who would you have liked to have seen the Democrats
put in there instead?
Speaker 22 (33:24):
I don't want any single name to be named. I
want anyone who wants to be in the game to
join the game. Harris can come in and she might
be the greatest president ever. I'm so excited about a
woman and a black woman as the president.
Speaker 19 (33:38):
It could be great.
Speaker 22 (33:39):
But just to just hand it over, I just think
it's a tragic lost opportunity to energize. That's the thing.
There was other callers and your participants of there's energy
behind this, and yes there is. But for someone like
me who just would say, come on, let's make it
an open playing field for other candidates, whoever they may be.
I don't have other I would love for them to
(34:01):
get up in front of me at the DC night
after night after night and debate each other and allow
me to make up my mind. Don't hand me, don't
spoon feed me the next Democratic presidential candidate.
Speaker 2 (34:12):
Yeah, thank you very much, Tom, thank you, uh and Yvette.
Speaker 1 (34:16):
There were people, there were high up Democrats who wanted
Biden to get out of the race, people like James
Carville who were suggesting exactly what Tom is saying there
that there should be you know, debates and town halls
and a real contest and it would just captivate the nation.
Speaker 10 (34:31):
That is scary. I would not have wanted that. This
is a democracy, it's not a WWE. And the challenge
with that is we would have had real challenges from
the Republican Party about how the money could be used,
which they're still challenging the constitutionality of that. These people
have to be vetted. She's been in the White House
for four years. She's been watching every move that Biden's
been making. We know she knows what she's doing. Because
(34:53):
of that, I think it's tough to then say we're
gonna have these debates and whoever shows up the best,
we're just gonna That's really not how politics works. She
is their apparent. She was chosen by him to be
her vice president if for some reason he could not
serve after he was re elected, she would have been
the one makes sense, and to jump over the vice
president would have created a lot of drama that our
(35:14):
party would not have been able to recover fromm WWE.
Speaker 1 (35:19):
But yeah, well, Philip, you were at the RNC and
or American Idol.
Speaker 9 (35:26):
Sorry.
Speaker 8 (35:26):
I think your caller, though, does make a point that
is aggravating to Democrats.
Speaker 9 (35:31):
But the only reason I think that got smothered out
is because Donald Trump was on the other side.
Speaker 8 (35:35):
If Donald Trump wasn't the opponent here, I think that
that line of thinking within the Democratic Party, that all
these party bosses, the Nancy Pelosis, the George Clooney's, the donors,
the Barack Obamas, they're sort of meddling and moving things
behind the scenes, I think would have become more prominent. However,
I do believe President Trump has changed not just Republican politics.
(35:55):
I saw first row at the RNC. He's absolutely revolutionizing
change the Republican Party. He's also though, changed the Democratic Party.
One quick thing this week on an IPSOS poll that
came out, it showed the post assassination the President Trump
did see his favorable ratings bump up about forty percent,
right after almost being killed by that young man. What's interesting, though, Jeremy,
(36:18):
is that fifty one percent of the country still has
an unfavorable view of the president.
Speaker 9 (36:22):
Now.
Speaker 8 (36:22):
When Ronald Reagan got shot in nineteen eighty one, his
aproof of ratings went through the roof. Tell me another
time in our American history where a former president or
a current president is shot at and fifty one percent
of the country still doesn't like the guy.
Speaker 9 (36:35):
Something has changed here with Donald Trump.
Speaker 8 (36:37):
And I think the reason why you didn't have that big,
giant debate on the Democratic side is because most Democrats
were so petrified if Trump returning to office, they wanted
to simply rush through this process and get someone in there,
and Harris was the heir apparent.
Speaker 9 (36:48):
Just naturally.
Speaker 1 (36:50):
Let's go to a voter who is in a state
that the Trump campaign before this switch, was starting to
think was more of a swing state, and that would
be Virginia. We've got Lisa, who's in Virginia Beach. Lisa,
what do you think?
Speaker 17 (37:03):
Hi, thank you for having me, and I'm really wow.
Speaker 23 (37:09):
I am an independent by history. I've voted for both
all kinds of candidates and those in between, but I
am I have to tell you. What's happening with Vice
President Harris is more of a movement that I see,
and I think it definitely took. And I'm proud of
(37:32):
the Democrats because they're normally reactionary as versus being proactive
about things. And I think even though this was a
reactionary decision by President Biden, I think he didn't want
to step down as we all know, but it was necessary.
(37:54):
There's and as you can see, the momentum is not
only on her side, but it is a movement. And
I've had my concerns about President Obama's electibility, and I
certainly have those concerns about VP Harris. Now it's a
President Obama. When he when he ran, I had very
(38:18):
real issues about his electability, and then by the same token,
I have those same kind of issues about Vice President Harris.
The difference is I do see more of a momentum happening,
particularly amongst women, that is contagious.
Speaker 17 (38:38):
And I think it really moves the needle. I think
we as women are are charged, and we are passionate,
and we're tired of sitting on the sidelines and see
her as an opportunity here and so as a woman,
(39:00):
that's just how.
Speaker 2 (39:01):
Ill let me have money?
Speaker 1 (39:03):
Let me take that to me, that Simpson, if I could,
if a movement, says Lisa, it is a movement.
Speaker 10 (39:09):
She's got the money, she's hopefully got the message, the manpower,
women power, and the movement. It is a movement, and
I think it's the movement that our party needed. You know,
we have been talking a long time about you know,
do we really want to switch shift the generation of
the party?
Speaker 13 (39:24):
Right?
Speaker 10 (39:25):
Is this a generational shift the party? Or are we
going to continue to do the same old thing? And
I think I think this movement shows that we can
and we should. And I love her reflection about Biden
because I had to tell people that this week when
they say she can't win, people said that about Biden.
Biden about Barack Obama too, and so then they were
wrong because Barack Obama got elected twice and it's probably
(39:47):
one of those popular presidents in the history of our presidency.
I think this is a different time. I think women
after the abortion rights Issue Project twenty twenty five are
coming out. Trump has shown his whole face, he has
shown on his whole rear end, and people want somebody
that can take him to task. And I think the
movement is growing, and I think we're going to see
(40:07):
that big pie of the Democratic Party that doesn't always
show up really start to show up. And when we
show up, we win.
Speaker 1 (40:15):
Philip, what are you hearing, by the way, about how
the Trump campaign feels about this, how Trump feels about it.
There's been reporting that, you know that they're kind of
upset that they picked jd vance now because it's not
so good in this matchup as it might have been
against Biden.
Speaker 8 (40:29):
Well, I can bring a bit of news for you here, Jeremy.
The Trump campaign, in the course of this program alone,
President former President Trump has announced that he's pulling out
of the debates. He is saying essentially that he that
he feels like, hey, they're not really sure who the
nominee is gonna be, So for now, I'm just gonna
step back and see.
Speaker 9 (40:47):
And maybe we'll reorganize this later.
Speaker 8 (40:49):
Look, they weren't prepared for Kamala Harris as they were
prepared for Joe Biden. I do think that you know
your callers are right though, there is a hesitancy about
the vice president because look, I'm not worried about African
American women. I'm not worried about Asian American women. I'm
not worried about women of color in general. Right, Like
one of my sources said to me, they're casting this
cycle as it's gonna be either gonna be with the
(41:11):
aka's or the kkks, Right. But the question I think
is going to come down to the white women, suburban
white women in particular, is look, we saw in twenty sixteen,
fifty three percent of white women voted for Donald Trump.
So when we say, oh, this is gonna be a
woman's issue, woman, it could be very energized. What women
are we talking about here. My sister's in Atlanta, Georgia,
my sister's in Detroit. Absolutely, I think there's gonna be
(41:32):
some energy there in the suburbs. I'm not so particularly
sure of.
Speaker 9 (41:36):
Where.
Speaker 8 (41:36):
Was a focus group on MSNBC with a number of
white females of Trump supporters and right of center voters,
and they said, legitimately, they are afraid of Kamala Harris
because she has so many people of color and.
Speaker 9 (41:47):
Young people behind her. So this may not go right now.
We're in the middle of the Harris honeymoon.
Speaker 8 (41:52):
I'm waiting to see how this dies down in the
next few weeks and what the basement and the ceiling
for Harris will be.
Speaker 2 (41:58):
Let's go to Nancy, who is in Chicago. Nancy, go ahead,
welcome to the middle, Hey.
Speaker 5 (42:05):
White suburban woman, senior citizen.
Speaker 14 (42:08):
We are all in.
Speaker 5 (42:10):
We are all in for Kamala. We have a Democrat
group that started meeting after Trump was elected, and we
had twice as many people there yesterday, most of them women,
and the excitement in the room, it was so exciting.
And this is my happy thought. The thought of a smart,
(42:31):
hip black Asian woman defeating this man that bragged about
grabbing women. You know, that is joy. The thought of
Kamala beating Trump give me joy. And I think she's
the right person. I agree that the I feel the
Dems did the right thing because we don't have time
(42:52):
to debate with a bunch of people. We got to
get on the road. We got to get the show
on the road. And that's exactly what Kamala is doing.
And I can't wait till she is Madam President.
Speaker 2 (43:02):
Well, Nancy, thank you.
Speaker 1 (43:04):
And what brings me joy is that you didn't complete
the thought of what Trump said about grabbing women.
Speaker 2 (43:09):
By the blank on a live radio program.
Speaker 1 (43:12):
So I really appreciate you say, yeah, absolutely, Why don't
we go to Todd, who's in Houston.
Speaker 2 (43:22):
Todd, welcome to the Middle, Go.
Speaker 15 (43:24):
Ahead, Hey, great to be here, first time listening to
your show.
Speaker 9 (43:28):
I like it.
Speaker 15 (43:30):
I think there's you know, I think we tried this
in twenty sixteen. We all want a woman to be president,
but it's the way this nomination is happening. I feel
like it's being done. I feel like it's Honestly, in
twenty sixteen, I felt like the DNC under Wesserman Schultz
kind of rigged it a little bit in Hillary's favor,
Clinton's favor over Sanders as far as scheduling the debates
(43:53):
on Saturdays where there's low viewership and some crazy made
up scandal in Nevada during that primary about Sanders and
something about you know, speaking in Spanish or something. I
just feel like this is an anointment of Vice President Harris.
I feel like she needs to go through the convention process.
(44:14):
And if there's other people, if there's Tim Ryan in Ohio,
who I think would be a great VP for her
if she gets the nomination. But I just feel like
it's too much behind the scenes for the Democratic Party,
which is supposed to be you know, from the people,
or sister lies up from the people to choose our nominees,
and it's just kind of like that, you know, the
smoke filled rooms, the back rooms, you know, the power bookers,
(44:37):
the super delegates, the celebrities.
Speaker 2 (44:39):
You know, Yeah, Todd, we've got it. I think that's
a that's a great point.
Speaker 1 (44:43):
I'm glad you. I'm glad you brought it up. And Yvette,
what do you think about that? That's not the first
call that said that on this program. What do you
think about Democrats who are worried about that?
Speaker 10 (44:52):
I think I think, first of all, we've been through
all the primaries. I think if we were talking about
people who still had the chance to vote, I think
that would be a different thing. Kamala was on every ballot,
whether she was in the first and the second position,
I think would have felt more like an anointment, anointing,
anointing someone if they replaced her, she was already in line,
(45:12):
she had already been on the ballot, she had been
in she's been in the White House for the last
four years. My fear was that the powers that be
were going to come into a room and say it
should be somebody who's not the vice president. Typically in
our country, the vice president is the next person. So
I prefer that she was ready, that she moved. And
as somebody who's been a delegate on the DNS to
(45:33):
the DNC super delegate more than once, you know, I
hate those rooms. It would have been complete chaos and
we would have been that much closer to the first
ballots being cast. So I actually think the fact that
they were able to say she's the heir apparent, she
was on the ballot with Biden, She's been in the
White House for four years, she's the next natural choice
makes sense. To replace her would have probably looked like
(45:57):
the Democrats were saying, she's too black, she's to female,
she's too Asian, and we don't think she should win.
She can win that electability argument. So somebody had to
make a decision because of the timing, and I think
that decision was probably the right one. The fact that
she's been able to coalesce donors and get all of
her votes in line verbally shows that she is the
(46:17):
person that could get it done. And you got to
bet these people, which takes a long long time. As well.
Speaker 1 (46:23):
Let me just get one more call in here. I
know all the lines are full, and thanks for everybody
who called in. You can leave a message if you
don't get through. But Terry is in Saint Louis. Terry,
just briefly tell us what you think.
Speaker 24 (46:33):
I was really struggling.
Speaker 15 (46:35):
I do not like Trump.
Speaker 24 (46:39):
I voted against him in the past election, and I
would have been voting against him in this current election,
but well as Kamala Harris, I just feel energized, very
very similar to the way I fell with Baracoba. And
(47:03):
I just I'm so proud of Joe Biden for stepping aside.
I think that says he has the country's interest in
his best a country's best interest in his heart.
Speaker 15 (47:21):
I think that.
Speaker 24 (47:24):
It maybe took a little bit, but this is not
an easy position to step to help from. But the
way he's embraced his vice president, it's just yeah, I
feel energized again, and I'm and I'm ready. I truly
feel like when Barack was there.
Speaker 1 (47:44):
Yeah, yeah, Terry, thank you very much for that. And
I am going to have to say goodbye to our
wonderful guest. But Philip Bailey, just in a few seconds,
We've had an assassination attempt, We've had a candidate dropout.
Speaker 2 (47:56):
Do you think it gets any crazier than this between
now and the election?
Speaker 8 (48:00):
Look, this is the West Wing come to life. I mean,
these things from couldn't write in fiction and believe so.
I would implore all Americans to keep it calm, keep
it cool. But something else unprecedent has been an abused
word in this campaign, more unprecedent moments are coming.
Speaker 1 (48:15):
That's Philip Bailey, chief political correspondent for USA Today, and
Hevet Simpson, former executive director of Democracy for America and
current host of the Power of Why podcast.
Speaker 2 (48:22):
Thanks so much to both of you.
Speaker 10 (48:24):
Thanks for having us.
Speaker 9 (48:25):
Jeremy, Thanks Jeremy and Tolliver.
Speaker 1 (48:28):
Next week we're going to be talking about healthcare, why
it's so expensive, and what you want our next president
to do about it.
Speaker 3 (48:34):
That's right, and we have an all star lineup. Billionaire
entrepreneur and businessman Mark Cuban will be here. He's an
owner of the Dallas Mavericks and appears on Shark Tank,
but he also owns a low cost online pharmacy. Also
joining US former Health and Human Services Secretary Kathleen Saveelias,
who helped launch Obamacare.
Speaker 1 (48:51):
It's going to be a great show, and of course
we're taking your calls at eight four to for Middle.
The Middle is brought to you by Longnook Media, distributed
by Illinois Public Media and or Banat Illinois and produced
by Joanne Jennings, Harrison Patino, Danny Alexander, and John barth Our.
Intern Azonica Deshler or Technical director is Jason Croft. Thanks
so much to the four hundred and ten public radio
stations around the country making it possible for people to
(49:13):
listen to the Middle. I'm Jeremy Hobson and I will
talk to you next week.
The Middle is supported by Journalism Funding Partners, a nonprofit
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dot com.
Speaker 2 (00:20):
Welcome to the Middle.
Speaker 1 (00:21):
I'm Jeremy Hobson along with our house DJ Tolliver and Tolliver.
Speaker 2 (00:24):
I was just looking.
Speaker 1 (00:25):
Back to our episode from October twenty sixth of last year.
Speaker 2 (00:29):
Do you remember what question we asked listeners?
Speaker 3 (00:32):
Yeah, that was our Halloween episode. Man, don't you remember
we're all dressed up?
Speaker 1 (00:36):
We asked are our political leaders too old? Which seems
like an interesting topic given what just happened. You can
hear that episode anytime because The Middle is available as
a podcast in partnership with iHeart Podcasts on the iHeart
app or wherever you get your podcasts. But, as you know,
Joe Biden decided that it was time to, in his words,
past the torch to a younger generation. He dropped out
(00:58):
of the race for president after mounting pressure from Democrats
and endorse his vice president Kamala Harris, who very quickly
rallied the party behind her nomination. So while she hasn't
officially gotten the Democratic nomination yet, it almost certainly will
be Harris versus Trump this year. And we want to
know what you, our listeners think about that. And we're
(01:19):
going to get to that in just a moment. But first,
last week we asked you, following the assassination attempt on
former President Trump, how we can turn the temperature down
in our politics. Here are some of the voicemails we got.
Speaker 4 (01:30):
My name is Mike Frontier, Rascine, Wisconsin. Our message is
I think we get to the middle of politicians stopped
fighting for things. What kind of model is that for
our kids?
Speaker 5 (01:41):
Hi?
Speaker 6 (01:41):
This is Anna from Gallaton, Tennessee. And to tone down
kind of just the aggressiveness. I tend to tell people,
I'm just an independent and I feel like not aligning
myself as a Republican or a Democrat tends to have
more open and easygoing discussions on politics.
Speaker 7 (02:01):
Hey, my name is Steves and Colorado. I think the
most important thing that we need to do is for
each side to police each other as extreme.
Speaker 8 (02:10):
What we need is.
Speaker 7 (02:11):
The Conservatives to criticize the far right and the Democrats
to criticize the far left. It's much easier to criticize
the other side than to police.
Speaker 9 (02:21):
Your own party.
Speaker 2 (02:23):
Well, thanks to everyone who called in.
Speaker 1 (02:25):
So now to our question this hour, as I'm calling it, Tolliver,
the old Biden Harris switcheroo.
Speaker 2 (02:31):
Does it change your vote?
Speaker 1 (02:33):
Are you happy with how fast the Democrats rallied behind
Kamala Harris or do you think it was too much
of a coronation? And who should Harris pick as her
vice presidential nominee? That's what we want to hear from you, Tlliver.
What is the number for people to call in?
Speaker 3 (02:46):
It's eight four four four Middle. That's eight four four
four six four three three five three All right to
us that listen to the Middle dot com.
Speaker 2 (02:53):
So let's meet our panel.
Speaker 1 (02:54):
Democratic political strategist Yvette Simpson joins us from Cincinnati. She's
the former executive director of Democracy for America and current
host of the Power of Why podcast. Vett, Great to
have you back on the Middle.
Speaker 10 (03:04):
Glad to be here, especially this week, Jeremy.
Speaker 2 (03:07):
Yeah, it's a big week.
Speaker 1 (03:09):
I mean, there's been so many big weeks so far
in this campaign, but this was definitely one of the
top ones.
Speaker 2 (03:14):
Philip. Great to have you back as well. That's USA Today.
Speaker 1 (03:17):
Chief political correspondent Philip Bailey in Louisville, Kentucky High.
Speaker 9 (03:20):
Philip, Jeremy House, Thanks, going going well.
Speaker 1 (03:23):
So before we get to the phones and they're already
lighting up, Philip, you were with us on that show
when we asked last fall if our political leaders were
too old. There was a lot of pressure on Joe
Biden to do what he did. Now a lot of
praise for him for doing it. How much do you
think that this has changed the race?
Speaker 8 (03:40):
Oh, this is reset the race altogether. This is a
totally different race than we had anticipated. I think, other
than maybe Nicki Haley, no one was really predicting that
Vice President Kamala Harris was going to be the nominee.
So this resets the race in a lot of ways.
We now have a contest where there actually is a
sort of forward thinking, page turning candidate issue that voters
(04:01):
were having for years. Jeremy was they did not want
to see this rematch between two men who were born
before the United Nations were even founded. So now that
we have a candidate who was born on the other
side right of the Korean War, I think there is
going to be a conversation about turning that page forward.
Now Trump is the old candidate and we have an
(04:22):
untested candidate though two on the Democratic side, Harris. As
we all remember, she dropped out before the first vote
was taken in twenty twenty. She's never lost a contest
in her entire career. But this resets the race altogether,
and I think it sets a new ground and a
whole new set of rules for.
Speaker 9 (04:38):
How we go forward.
Speaker 2 (04:39):
What do you think, how has this changed the race?
Speaker 10 (04:42):
Oh, it's changed everything. I think when the debate happened,
and I think there were already people who were kind
of wondering whether he would be able to handle the
brunt of a campaign where he would have to move
around and help support the entire ticket, whether he was
going to be able to make it through that. And
I think after the debate it was very clear we
need energy, we need someone who can give us a
(05:05):
fresh start, we need the next generation. And my question
kept being one is he going to do it? And
two how long is he going to wait? Because I
didn't want to go into the convention in Chicago and
have a question about that and let that be a
ball in the air. You really don't want that. So
the fact that he did it in the timing that
he did took the wind out of the bullet in
the year sales that Trump was having, and it shifted
(05:29):
the conversation this week to our new exciting candidate. And
the hope and the expectation is that by the time
we get to Chicago as a party, we're singing kumbaya.
It's about, hey, how are we going to get this done.
Let's get her voted in, and let's keep it moving.
Speaker 1 (05:44):
But have you heard of that from Democrats who wanted
more of a contest and who are worried about Harris's
ability to win.
Speaker 10 (05:51):
I have not heard a lot of that. There have
been very few de factors that I've heard from. And
I think part of that is because she should have
been the one. Right constitutionally, she succeeds the president. You
can't serve she's the only other Democrat that was on
the ballot. Legitimately in all primary states, she might have
been in the second position, but she was on the
ballot the entire time, and so it was important that
(06:12):
it be her. My fear was that they were going
to try to have an open convention and let it
be anybody's game, which would have been very challenging. I
think Black women would have had a lot of problem
with that. I think Asian American women would have had
a lot of problem with that, and there would have
been some folks who are real party our based would
have struggled with that a bit. So I think actually
anyone who's concerned about it now, I just wonder why,
(06:33):
especially since she's raised a ton of money, which she
kind of does. She did that when she came in
on the VP ticket, and she's also gotten a lot
of momentum just since this happened earlier this week.
Speaker 1 (06:45):
So I have to say that as we were getting
ready for the show, I was so excited to hear
what our callers have to say about this, because we've
heard what the elected politicians think about this, and we've
certainly heard what the pundits think.
Speaker 2 (06:56):
But let's get to a caller.
Speaker 1 (06:58):
Spencer is on the line from Pittsburgh, a swing state. Spencer,
what do you think of this change?
Speaker 11 (07:05):
Yeah, so, personally, first off, thanks for having me on.
I'm actually quite glad about it. Beforehand, I didn't want
to vote for either Trump nor Biden. I think Trump
was too radically going to his side, trying to make
people fired up for him. And I thought Biden was
quite frankly a milk toast, just liberal and went with
(07:26):
whatever came his way. But I think Kamla is a
lot more of a centrist, a lot more willing to
see both sides and frankly allowing the thoughts for both
sides to kind of push her to wherever the American
people are going to want her to be. And so
I went from wanting to vote for RFK Junior an independent,
(07:47):
I wanted to vote for Kamala.
Speaker 1 (07:48):
Interesting, Spencer, thanks so much, Philip Bailey. That's interesting that
he's talking about RFK Junior. I wonder how many people
are like Spencer out there.
Speaker 9 (07:58):
Well, thank you.
Speaker 8 (07:58):
We saw a New York Times Siena pole released today
and it shows that, you know, in a one on
one race, Trump is still slightly ahead of Harris, but
then when it's the multi candidate race with RFK, she
actually takes the lead, and again this scrambles the race altogether.
Every everything before Biden has to be discarded, right, all
(08:19):
the polls.
Speaker 1 (08:19):
All the middle shows that we did, we have to
just throw out from every middle episode.
Speaker 9 (08:25):
That's all gone.
Speaker 8 (08:26):
Maybe, And I think what you're gonna see is another
thing that we're gonna see is we're gonna see a
group of young people who are fourteen, fifteen, sixteen, four
years ago in the midst of the pandemic, who are
now adults. Those young people are going to be inspired
I think a lot more by a fifty nine year
old Kamala Harris, who reminds them of their auntie, right,
who reminds them of their professional auntie who's out here
(08:46):
pursuing her career. They're gonna be inspired. We're already seeing
a surge in young people registering to vote no surprise, duh, Democrats.
Maybe an eighteen year old a little more inspired by
a fifty nine year old running than an eighty one
year old running. So I think we're going to see
not only young people who are going to come in
who are going to see this as their historic moment.
Remember she's a historic candidate. We've only had jeremy four
(09:08):
women in our history on the ballot at the vice
presidential president level, jerremin Ferraro, Sarah Palin, Hillary Clinton, and
now Kamala Harris. So for that whole entire generation, particularly
of young professional women of color, Black, Asian, Hispanic, etc.
This is very much to them the same thing that
the Obama movement was sixteen years ago.
Speaker 1 (09:30):
Let's go to Nishe, who's in Columbia, South Carolina. Nishe,
tell us what you think about this change on the
Democratic side.
Speaker 12 (09:37):
I am very happy that Biden stepped down. I was
not going to vote this election. I did look into
Robert Kennedy and there were just some reservations there. But
I'm sixty two years old and I was not going
to vote this election, which that was the first time ever.
And I wasn't particularly of of Harris. But I've got
(10:02):
to tell you exactly what your guest said about how
nobody wanted to see a rematch between Biden and Trump.
And when Biden stepped down and Kamala Harris was put forward,
she is your parents. The enthusiasm it has just been contagious,
and I am all on board with Kamala Harris. At
this point I even.
Speaker 1 (10:22):
Said money already, wow, Anisha, thank you for that. Evette Simpson.
That must be good to hear as a Democratic strategist.
Speaker 10 (10:29):
I'm beaming yes and amen, yes and amen. You know,
and I want to be respectful to bide him. He
had an amazing career. We do have to give him
its just due. But I do think we have been
talking a lot about energy. We have been talking about
setting the new stage, and I think Kamala presents that
we'll call her Mamala since she called her Auntie Kamala.
Mamla creates a whole new energy. And I think seeing
(10:53):
folks who might have not shown up, or folks who
would have voted for RFK Junior switch over is exactly
why this decision had to be made, Because we had
the folks who said, you know, those voters who didn't
want either candidate. Now we're getting those guys over on
Kalala's team.
Speaker 1 (11:09):
By the way, Philip mentioned eighteen year olds, we often
have eighteen year olds call into the show.
Speaker 2 (11:13):
If you're out there eight four four four Middle Tolliver.
Speaker 1 (11:16):
You know, history may not exactly repeat itself, but it
sure does come up with some crazy coincidences sometimes.
Speaker 3 (11:21):
Yeah, man, my hometown of Chicago is actually going to
host the DNC convention once again. And back in sixty
eight when the DNC was also in Chicago, President Lyndon
Johnson similarly announced that he would not accept the nomination.
Speaker 13 (11:33):
I do not believe that I should devote an hour
or day of my time to any personal partisan causes,
or to any duties other than the aweshome duties of
this office, the presidency of your country. Accordingly, I shall
(11:54):
not see and I will not accept the nomination of
my party for another term, as you're a president.
Speaker 1 (12:02):
So interesting to hear that in especially, Tolliver, after Biden
gave a very similar speech from.
Speaker 2 (12:08):
The Oval Office.
Speaker 1 (12:09):
Stay right there, We've got more coming up on the Middle.
This is the Middle. I'm Jeremy Hobson. If you're just tuning,
in the Middle is a national call in show. We're
focused on elevating voices from the middle geographically, politically, and philosophically,
or maybe you just want to meet in the middle.
This hour, we're asking you, how does Biden's exit from
the race and Harris's entrance change your views or your vote? Tulliver,
(12:32):
what's the number for people to call in?
Speaker 3 (12:34):
It's eight four four four Middle. That's eight four four
four sixty four three three five three. You can also
write to us and listen to the Middle dot com
or on social media.
Speaker 1 (12:42):
I'm joined by USA Today Chief political correspondent for Philip
Bailey and political strategist Yvette Simpson.
Speaker 2 (12:47):
And before we get back to the.
Speaker 1 (12:48):
Phones, Yvett, how do the issues at play in this
election change because of the switch? Are there things that
we're going to be hearing more about and things that
we're going to be hearing less about than when it
was Trump Biden.
Speaker 10 (12:59):
I think the age question is flipped. We talked about that.
I think women. So I just got a text message
from somebody who's on the call that Shennon Watts is
holding with Mom's demand one hundred and thirty six thousand
women on a call right now. They just raised one
point one million dollars and the call just started. So
women are a new playground because of the abortion band
things that were happening before, and we used to struggle
(13:20):
to get suburban white women. I think that conversation changes significantly.
I think we have a conversation about the future. If
I'm Kamala, I'm like taking credit for all the good
things that happened in the first four years. I'm also saying, hey,
here's how we're going to do something different which will
allow her to kind of shake a little bit. As
GOP is trying to hold her to some of the
policies that they think are damaging. So I think it's
(13:40):
a great opportunity for her. I hope we talk about
marijuana legalization and removing you know, the guys out of prison,
the guys and ladies out of prison, on those things,
because I know how she feels about that. She's supportive
of that, So I want to see her.
Speaker 2 (13:53):
And we didn't hear much about that for Biding either.
Speaker 10 (13:56):
We didn't and we should have. We should have. Yeah,
I say, Ohio as a twenty six to legalize and
we're a red state, So I think we're ready to
have that conversation for sure.
Speaker 1 (14:05):
Philip, We've heard about some of the positives for Democrats
about Kamala Harris.
Speaker 2 (14:09):
She's certainly younger and more energetic.
Speaker 1 (14:10):
She's more comfortable talking about abortion rights, which is something
that has energized Democrats.
Speaker 2 (14:14):
What are as you look at this as a.
Speaker 1 (14:16):
Political reporter, what are the initial weaknesses of Kamala Harris
as a candidate?
Speaker 8 (14:21):
Well, I think I mean, you know, Vice President Harris
is markedly to the left of President Biden on a
lot of issues. She has given many interviews in the
past where she's been caught flat footed on questions about
to fund the police, abolishing ice, some of her larger,
I think views on criminal justice and prosecutions. You're already
seeing President Trump telegraphed at a rally this week.
Speaker 9 (14:43):
Saying no more mister Niskay.
Speaker 8 (14:45):
Not that necessarily ever was one, but his campaign is
telegraphed that they are going to go hard to the
paint against Vice President Harris in these sort of Willy
Horton style ads.
Speaker 9 (14:55):
I think you're going to.
Speaker 8 (14:56):
See a lot of her prosecutorial record from San Francisco
when she was the DA in San Francisco, as Attorney
General in California. Wow, those issues are going to be
brought back up. I think Harris may be better prepared
this go round, but she historically has not always been
best on her feet in some of these interviews and
caught on some of these more controversial issues. So she's
marketly to the left of Biden. I think that's our
(15:16):
biggest weakness there.
Speaker 1 (15:18):
Let's go to Andrew, who is in Greensboro, North Carolina. Andrew,
welcome to the middle.
Speaker 14 (15:22):
Go ahead, Hey, thanks for having me on. I just
wanted to call in and say that I am actually
very excited about her taking the reins for this election.
I am a registered Republican and have been my whole life.
I'm thirty years old, but I find myself on the
(15:44):
probably the left wing of the Republican Party, and this election,
I was feeling like I'm very much left behind by
the current Republican Party that's become the Party of Trump. So,
you know, I was kind of trying to balance whether
I wanted to stay on election day or go vote
for Joe Biden, who I didn't have a lot of
confidence in. But you know, then I reflected on my
(16:08):
privilege as a white man and how another Trump can
might affect other people who are, you know, not the
thanosition I am. And and now that now that Kamala
Harris is going to likely be the nominee, I'm certainly
going to the polls and I'll be casting my ballots
for her, despite what my registration card says.
Speaker 1 (16:28):
Okay, well, so just let me ask you a quick
follow up. Because of your Republican registration card, do you
want her to pick a Republican as her vice presidential
running mate or would or do you care?
Speaker 14 (16:40):
You know, to be honest, I don't really care. I mean,
I don't think a lot of people in her own
party would would really appreciate that. So for me, it's
not super important as long as it's not someone who
is I would say, you know, extremely car left.
Speaker 15 (16:55):
But I'm going to be.
Speaker 14 (16:55):
Voting for her regardless because of my concerns about Trump
and Project twenty five and other things like that.
Speaker 2 (17:01):
Right, Andrew, thank you if that you don't think it's likely.
Speaker 1 (17:05):
I assume that she will that Kamala Harris will pick
a Republican to be her VP.
Speaker 10 (17:09):
No, I think that's like zero to zero point five.
I think we know what the ticket looks like, you know,
with the candidates potential candidates look like based on those
governors who and leaders who are in those swing states.
I actually like Josh Shapiro. I think he's got a
lot of energy. I think he's he's Obama Esque in
the way is Caden's in some of the ways that
(17:31):
he talks. He's relatively new, so he'll have to be vetted.
But what he reflects I think is what happens after her.
She does two terms, he can be the next president.
I like him. He's my favorite.
Speaker 1 (17:40):
Right now, let's go to Amber, who is in Arvada, Colorado. Hi, Amber,
Welcome to the middle go.
Speaker 16 (17:45):
Ahead, Hi, thanks for having me. Yeah, so, I guess,
you know, as far as the subject goes, one thing
I'm worried about is Kamala Harris's electability and just how
fast everybody kind of jumped on the train as far
as yep, she's the nominee. And at this point, I mean,
it's from everything I've been hearing in the news, it
(18:06):
sounds like she's basically for all intents and purposes, that's it.
And it just happened so fast. And I guess my
concerns are that I feel like she is going to
attract certain Democrat demographics of voters, particularly I think younger people,
(18:27):
and historically, you know, it's older people that tend to vote.
And unfortunately, I do think there is still a lot
of misogyny and racism, and you know, I just I
wonder how much that is going to affect this because
I feel like there are probably people out there that
just the sheer fact that she is black and that
(18:47):
she is a woman, there.
Speaker 14 (18:48):
Are just not going to vote for her no matter what.
Speaker 16 (18:52):
And how does that how does how is that counterbalance?
Speaker 17 (18:56):
I guess with the new voters that she will a tract.
Speaker 2 (19:00):
And yeah, well, yt me, let me take that. Let
me take that to Philip Bailey. The lot there.
Speaker 1 (19:09):
One thing is that Joe Biden actually did do very
well with older voters that was sort of his base
and in some ways, and also what about the question
of whether the fact that Kamala Harris is so many firsts,
a black woman, an Indian American woman, a woman, is
that How worried, Philip are Democrats about that?
Speaker 8 (19:30):
Well, let's unpack this right over that three week period.
I think we're going to look back at that period
after the debate with astonishment. There was this conversation, and
I think the Democratic Party, it's big weeks, it's mega donors,
it's leaders got a very clear message, particularly from African
American women, professional African American women who know a think
of two about being passed over, that if you do this,
there won't be anyone who will support number one number two.
(19:53):
I think people are are right to have some squeamishness
or some skittishness about Harris's viability.
Speaker 9 (20:00):
Right, this is an.
Speaker 8 (20:01):
Election in which, look, we're gonna have a lot of history. First,
a lot of these things are at the forefront. I think
the Harris campaign's response to that is, let's go, let's
have let's have this conversation, let's.
Speaker 9 (20:10):
Have this debate that she's building a new coalition.
Speaker 8 (20:13):
Altogether, it's going to be LGBTQYA plus people, it's gonna
be young people, it's gonna be middle class whites and
working class whites. She's gonna have to put together a
different type of coalition. She's gonna have to probably get
Jeremy ninety five, ninety three, ninety five percent of the
African American vote.
Speaker 9 (20:29):
Let's remember the twenty twelve model for Barack Obama.
Speaker 8 (20:32):
Barack Obama, who we all thought wasn't gonna be re
elected in twenty twelve, only got thirty nine percent of
the white vote.
Speaker 9 (20:40):
And that's what many will point.
Speaker 8 (20:41):
To as the sort of backlashing creation of not just
the Tea Party movement, but the MAGA movement itself. So
in many ways, I think you're going to see Harris
model that same that same kind of coalition and who
she picks as her vice president. Maybe that final point here,
I guess would be Latasha Brown, a black voters matter
made the point of maybe she needs to pick a
non white male, but I think the Harris campaign is
clearly telegraphed that that's going to be who they're looking
(21:03):
for to balance that ticket. But we're not there yet,
but I think this is going to be a big
test for the country well.
Speaker 1 (21:08):
And already one of the non white males that was
being talked about, Wes Moore, the governor of Maryland, has
come out and said he wouldn't.
Speaker 2 (21:15):
Be interested, which I always find interesting.
Speaker 1 (21:18):
That somebody would say they wouldn't be if somebody called
you up and said you want to be the vice president, Like, now,
this isn't really for me.
Speaker 2 (21:24):
Let's go to.
Speaker 1 (21:25):
Eliza, who is in Carrie, North Carolina. Eliza, welcome to
the middle.
Speaker 2 (21:30):
What do you think?
Speaker 18 (21:31):
Hi, thank you so much for having me.
Speaker 16 (21:33):
So.
Speaker 18 (21:34):
I'm twenty two and I just graduated from college and
this is my second presidential election that I'm voting in,
and I can just say from the difference between this
election and the last so far, it just feels incredible.
Since Kamala has joined the race, and I think speaking
from the perspective of me and my friends, there's just
(21:56):
a lot more energy and excitement and enthusiasm to vote
for her. Last time around, there was a lot of
dread and a lot of this kind of feeling that
it was our duty to vote for Joe Biden, but
there was no excitement behind it, kind of just like
get it out of the way. And now I think
that feels very, very different. The last couple days, I mean,
social media has been flooded with all sorts of videos
(22:19):
and jokes and means about Kamala Harris and it's just it.
You can't get away from it, and it feels really
refreshing and exciting.
Speaker 2 (22:28):
Eliza.
Speaker 1 (22:29):
Let me just ask you one quick thing. You're in
the state of North Carolina. The governor Roy Cooper has
been talked about as a possible running mate for Kamala Harris.
Would that make any difference to you at all? As
somebody in North Carolina.
Speaker 18 (22:39):
I mean, I will be voting for Calmlala either way,
but I think I would just be over the moon
if Roy Cooper was chosen. I'm really happy that I
got to vote for Roy Cooper, you know, last term.
And he's won two statewide elections in North Carolina, both
times in twenty sixteen and twenty twenty. When the state
went for Trump and he still won as a Democrat,
(23:00):
so I mean, I think he's incredible. I think he's
done an incredible job as a governor of our state.
Speaker 1 (23:05):
Eliza, thank you so much for that call, Tolliver. I
know that there's more coming in on social media and
into our email box.
Speaker 3 (23:12):
Absolutely. Albert writes, I'm happy with the turn of events.
The Right have charted a dark course for this country,
taking us back instead of forward.
Speaker 9 (23:18):
My pick for.
Speaker 3 (23:19):
VP would be Liz Cheney, although that is rather unlikely,
Gene writes from Vermont. Kamala Harris says she is one
hundred percent in alignment with Biden stands on Gaza, so
I'm not sure I can support her either. I wish
we had a real choice, but it appears all of
DC blind about Israel's actions and that one I was
really interested in because I know that on my side
of the internet people are really waiting to hear something
(23:40):
for soul about Gaza from Kamala Harris, So I don't
know what you two have to see about.
Speaker 1 (23:44):
And if ed Simpson she did talk about she had
a little mini press availability and talked about the situation
in Israel.
Speaker 2 (23:52):
After meeting.
Speaker 1 (23:53):
I think with the Prime Minister NETANYAHUO from Israel, who's
visiting Washington.
Speaker 2 (23:58):
Is there.
Speaker 1 (23:59):
How how does this change the calculation from the Democrats,
many of whom called into this show and said, I
can't vote for Biden because of Gaza.
Speaker 10 (24:07):
Yeah. Well, one, he's promised he's going to finish that
up before January, which we all know is gonna happen. Right,
He's going to wrap that little thing up. Joe Biden says,
We're gonna have that little war thing wrapped up before
I leave, but probably not before the election. I think
Kamala has been you know, she's supported by progressives, she's
supported by the middle of the party. I think she's
(24:27):
gonna have to walk the line. A lot has changed.
We talked about this when we did the Middle East
show since that war started, and so I think a
lot more people are calling for ceasefire now, a lot
more people want the destiny and a lot more people
want to find resolution. So I think she has the
benefit of time. And as we continue to have conversations
about that, we have to remember her husband is Jewish,
(24:47):
so it's really important to remember that Doug has a
voice on this too, also a progressive for what it
sends to be kind of progressive like her, but her
husband's perspective is important too. I remember hearing just yes
or today they were saying, well, Kamala wouldn't take a
meeting with net and Yahoo. She doesn't care about Jewish people.
And somebody says her husband is actually Jewish, so it's
(25:08):
not like she does not care. So it'll be interesting
to see how she threads that needle going forward. If
I'm her, though, I would let Joe Biden take this one.
Let him take it for now, and then I think
what we've got is the benefit of time because more
people are calling for fewer deaths and the end to
this war.
Speaker 1 (25:28):
Let's go to Claude, who is in Overland Park, Kansas. Claude,
welcome to the middle. What do you think about this change?
Speaker 15 (25:35):
Thank you very much.
Speaker 19 (25:36):
I think Kamala Harris can win the election by differentiating
herself from both Biden and Trump and moving more toward
the middle and side quick ways. One is by taking
the shackles off Zelensky and Ukraine so that he can
bomb Russian supply lines, et cetera, and that's just his
own country. Secondly, a broader position and energy so that
(25:58):
we're not telling our allies the world countries that they
have to depend upon oil from Iran and Russia. Thirdly,
more targeted tariffs to help reduce inflation. And then fit
for the border, a more balanced position on the border,
steal the border, and then you can have the amnesty
that will focus the discussion on Trump's terrible deportation idea.
(26:22):
And then fifth a little more positive on schools. Positive
supporting charity schools, not necessarily full choice, but supporting the
charity schools. Those will really help her win the election.
Speaker 2 (26:33):
Thank you, Claude, thank you, Yeah, thank you.
Speaker 1 (26:35):
And Philip Bailey about the issue of whether she will
go to the base or go to the middle. Now,
what do you expect from Kamala Harris? What is she
going to do as she launches this campaign.
Speaker 8 (26:48):
Well, I think that the Vice president is going to
try tow the line on some of these issues, but
on others, I think she can't deny that she is
again marketly to the left of Joe Biden on a
lot of these things. Right, she was a sendative from California, right,
not Texas, not Florida, not Ohio. She was a senator
from the state of California. So look, I think, for example,
on the Gaza issue, it was her. She was the
(27:09):
first to sort of distinguish herself, speaking at the Edmund
Pettis Bridge in some Alabama, casting.
Speaker 9 (27:15):
This as a moral issue.
Speaker 8 (27:16):
She Diday I think made another example of that, saying
while she denounced the burning of the American flag and
the defacing of certain federal properties, she said that she
was very clear with net in Yahoo that he needs
to wrap this up with the death toll in Gaza,
which is I think an atrocious sort of human rights violation,
an issue for a lot.
Speaker 9 (27:33):
Of people who, even if they still see what.
Speaker 8 (27:36):
Happened on October seventh as a violation as well, they
sort of balance those things out and say, hey, look
there's a moral issue here.
Speaker 9 (27:41):
She spoke to that. I think one thing that she's going.
Speaker 8 (27:43):
To absolutely speak to is childcare and cast that in
very much the same way that healthcare was cast by
former President Obama, talking about the rise of that cost,
which affects.
Speaker 9 (27:52):
Men and women alike.
Speaker 8 (27:53):
And again, the reproductive rights changes the ballgame. A Republican
women get abortions too. She has leaned into that issue.
She was the first major candidate of major official to
visit a planned parenthood clinic. So I don't think she's
going to necessarily go to the middle as much as
she's going to talk about issues that invigorate progressives that
they feel like Joe Biden really there's some left on
(28:14):
the table and said, oh, it's my obligation.
Speaker 9 (28:15):
To vote for you.
Speaker 1 (28:16):
Okay, before we go to a break, I asked for
an eighteen year old and I got one. Joshua is
with us from Charleston, South Carolina. Joshua quickly tell us
what you think?
Speaker 20 (28:26):
So how I feel as a new eighteen year old
voter who's going to be, you know, as you guys
mentioned earlier in the show, someone who's lived through the
pandemic and is getting their first chance to really have
their voice heard in the voting scheme of the country.
Speaker 15 (28:41):
I feel that.
Speaker 20 (28:44):
Possible President Harris running against former President Trump will be
a really interesting battle because she is somebody who we
haven't really seen before really have a chance against Trump.
Inside of the race. Trump betting on Trump versus Biden
definitely had a lot of younger voters kind of if
(29:05):
he not really wanting someone who's the age of your
grandfather versus the age of another grandfather, but now someone who,
as y'all mentioned, the age of an anti someone who's
younger and has that different stance not only on economic
policy and just ideals within the parties, but now differences
(29:26):
in age and energy and how long they can last.
Actually living completely through a presidency is something that really
swayed me from being more in between. Oh, I don't
know which one I really like more. I've was raised
more Democratic, but I was kind of iffy. I found
issues with both which I didn't necessarily.
Speaker 1 (29:47):
We got to leave it there, Joshua, because we're running
out of time, But thank you so much for that call, Tolliver.
You know, one of the things that we have been
seeing this week talking abou Kamala Harris is Joe Biden
basically ending his long career right in front of us.
Speaker 3 (30:01):
Yeah, and this man is so experienced. This is even
the first time he stepped away from running for president.
Listen to this from nineteen eighty seven.
Speaker 21 (30:08):
There will be other presidential campaigns, and I'll be there, Oliphant,
I'll be there. There will be other opportunities, there will
be other battles in other places other times, and I'll
be there. This country's going to be lifted up, and
I'm gonna play a big part in doing it.
Speaker 1 (30:27):
Of course, I guess one big difference there, Tolliver, is
that Biden when he made that announcement was not the president,
which he is now. Pretty extraordinary to see a president
decide to not run.
Speaker 2 (30:38):
For re election.
Speaker 1 (30:39):
We'll be right back with more of the middle. This
is the Middle. I'm Jeremy Hobson. This hour, we're asking you,
does the Biden exit and Harris entrance into the race
change your views or your vote? Call us at eight
four four four Middle. That's eight four four four six
four three three five three. You can also reach out
to us at Listen to the Middle dot com. Before
(30:59):
we get to the funds, Philip, we've talked about a
couple of vice presidential possibilities. One is in your state,
Andy Basheer, the governor. Do you think that that's likely
or do you think it's going to be somebody like
a Mark Kelly or as if that wants a Josh Shapiro.
Speaker 8 (31:13):
Well, I think that governor Andy Basheer my home state governor,
and checked my Bluegrass bias on here, Jeremy, he's absolutely
in the top five talking to different sources in and
out of the Harris campaign. He has certainly someone that
the Harris people are kicking the tires on. It's been
confirmed today by The Courier Journal of the paper I
used to work at, that he is being vetted.
Speaker 9 (31:33):
I think that, you.
Speaker 8 (31:34):
Know, the issue for Bashir will obviously be that he
can talk the talk. He can talk to Appalachia folks,
he can talk to working class whites. He's won three
state wide elections in a state you know that Donald
Trump won.
Speaker 9 (31:45):
One important factor.
Speaker 8 (31:46):
Take a county like Breathett County right in eastern Kentucky County.
Donald Trump won that county by about fifty something points
against Biden.
Speaker 9 (31:54):
Andy Basheer won by about twenty something points. However, the problems.
Speaker 8 (31:57):
For Andy but Sheer is that, you know, Kentucky is
not a swing state by any measure, It's going to
be lockstep with Donald Trump. So if Harris is looking
for someone who can make her more competitive in those
swing states than the Joshapiro A Mark Kelly Senter Mark
Kelly of Arizona, I think it's rise to the top
of that list someone of like Roy Cooper. But I
think certainly my Bluegrass Boy Andy Basheer is in the
runnings like any good horse race from horse race from Kentucky.
Speaker 1 (32:23):
Let's go to Tom, who's in the Twin Cities in Minnesota.
Speaker 2 (32:27):
Tom, Welcome to the middle, go ahead.
Speaker 22 (32:30):
Hi, thank you very much for inviting me in and
anyone who's willing to listen to me. I guess every
party needs a pooper, right, So here's my message. I'm
really really disappointed in the Democratic Party for taking this
approach of just going with the so predictable handing of
the reins over to the boringly predictable heir apparent vice president,
(32:51):
who I, in my experience, is a very divisive character.
I hang around with a lot of liberal Republicans and
they just really don't like as a person. You know,
we can always get into facts, but that's one of
the facts. And I think it's a huge loss or
a whiff or a myth on the opportunity for the
Democratic Party to truly energize their base and potential people
(33:14):
that might join the base via really just a simple
kind of a debate tournament at the DNC next month.
Speaker 1 (33:20):
Who would you have liked to have seen the Democrats
put in there instead?
Speaker 22 (33:24):
I don't want any single name to be named. I
want anyone who wants to be in the game to
join the game. Harris can come in and she might
be the greatest president ever. I'm so excited about a
woman and a black woman as the president.
Speaker 19 (33:38):
It could be great.
Speaker 22 (33:39):
But just to just hand it over, I just think
it's a tragic lost opportunity to energize. That's the thing.
There was other callers and your participants of there's energy
behind this, and yes there is. But for someone like
me who just would say, come on, let's make it
an open playing field for other candidates, whoever they may be.
I don't have other I would love for them to
(34:01):
get up in front of me at the DC night
after night after night and debate each other and allow
me to make up my mind. Don't hand me, don't
spoon feed me the next Democratic presidential candidate.
Speaker 2 (34:12):
Yeah, thank you very much, Tom, thank you, uh and Yvette.
Speaker 1 (34:16):
There were people, there were high up Democrats who wanted
Biden to get out of the race, people like James
Carville who were suggesting exactly what Tom is saying there
that there should be you know, debates and town halls
and a real contest and it would just captivate the nation.
Speaker 10 (34:31):
That is scary. I would not have wanted that. This
is a democracy, it's not a WWE. And the challenge
with that is we would have had real challenges from
the Republican Party about how the money could be used,
which they're still challenging the constitutionality of that. These people
have to be vetted. She's been in the White House
for four years. She's been watching every move that Biden's
been making. We know she knows what she's doing. Because
(34:53):
of that, I think it's tough to then say we're
gonna have these debates and whoever shows up the best,
we're just gonna That's really not how politics works. She
is their apparent. She was chosen by him to be
her vice president if for some reason he could not
serve after he was re elected, she would have been
the one makes sense, and to jump over the vice
president would have created a lot of drama that our
(35:14):
party would not have been able to recover fromm WWE.
Speaker 1 (35:19):
But yeah, well, Philip, you were at the RNC and
or American Idol.
Speaker 9 (35:26):
Sorry.
Speaker 8 (35:26):
I think your caller, though, does make a point that
is aggravating to Democrats.
Speaker 9 (35:31):
But the only reason I think that got smothered out
is because Donald Trump was on the other side.
Speaker 8 (35:35):
If Donald Trump wasn't the opponent here, I think that
that line of thinking within the Democratic Party, that all
these party bosses, the Nancy Pelosis, the George Clooney's, the donors,
the Barack Obamas, they're sort of meddling and moving things
behind the scenes, I think would have become more prominent. However,
I do believe President Trump has changed not just Republican politics.
(35:55):
I saw first row at the RNC. He's absolutely revolutionizing
change the Republican Party. He's also though, changed the Democratic Party.
One quick thing this week on an IPSOS poll that
came out, it showed the post assassination the President Trump
did see his favorable ratings bump up about forty percent,
right after almost being killed by that young man. What's interesting, though, Jeremy,
(36:18):
is that fifty one percent of the country still has
an unfavorable view of the president.
Speaker 9 (36:22):
Now.
Speaker 8 (36:22):
When Ronald Reagan got shot in nineteen eighty one, his
aproof of ratings went through the roof. Tell me another
time in our American history where a former president or
a current president is shot at and fifty one percent
of the country still doesn't like the guy.
Speaker 9 (36:35):
Something has changed here with Donald Trump.
Speaker 8 (36:37):
And I think the reason why you didn't have that big,
giant debate on the Democratic side is because most Democrats
were so petrified if Trump returning to office, they wanted
to simply rush through this process and get someone in there,
and Harris was the heir apparent.
Speaker 9 (36:48):
Just naturally.
Speaker 1 (36:50):
Let's go to a voter who is in a state
that the Trump campaign before this switch, was starting to
think was more of a swing state, and that would
be Virginia. We've got Lisa, who's in Virginia Beach. Lisa,
what do you think?
Speaker 17 (37:03):
Hi, thank you for having me, and I'm really wow.
Speaker 23 (37:09):
I am an independent by history. I've voted for both
all kinds of candidates and those in between, but I
am I have to tell you. What's happening with Vice
President Harris is more of a movement that I see,
and I think it definitely took. And I'm proud of
(37:32):
the Democrats because they're normally reactionary as versus being proactive
about things. And I think even though this was a
reactionary decision by President Biden, I think he didn't want
to step down as we all know, but it was necessary.
(37:54):
There's and as you can see, the momentum is not
only on her side, but it is a movement. And
I've had my concerns about President Obama's electibility, and I
certainly have those concerns about VP Harris. Now it's a
President Obama. When he when he ran, I had very
(38:18):
real issues about his electability, and then by the same token,
I have those same kind of issues about Vice President Harris.
The difference is I do see more of a momentum happening,
particularly amongst women, that is contagious.
Speaker 17 (38:38):
And I think it really moves the needle. I think
we as women are are charged, and we are passionate,
and we're tired of sitting on the sidelines and see
her as an opportunity here and so as a woman,
(39:00):
that's just how.
Speaker 2 (39:01):
Ill let me have money?
Speaker 1 (39:03):
Let me take that to me, that Simpson, if I could,
if a movement, says Lisa, it is a movement.
Speaker 10 (39:09):
She's got the money, she's hopefully got the message, the manpower,
women power, and the movement. It is a movement, and
I think it's the movement that our party needed. You know,
we have been talking a long time about you know,
do we really want to switch shift the generation of
the party?
Speaker 13 (39:24):
Right?
Speaker 10 (39:25):
Is this a generational shift the party? Or are we
going to continue to do the same old thing? And
I think I think this movement shows that we can
and we should. And I love her reflection about Biden
because I had to tell people that this week when
they say she can't win, people said that about Biden.
Biden about Barack Obama too, and so then they were
wrong because Barack Obama got elected twice and it's probably
(39:47):
one of those popular presidents in the history of our presidency.
I think this is a different time. I think women
after the abortion rights Issue Project twenty twenty five are
coming out. Trump has shown his whole face, he has
shown on his whole rear end, and people want somebody
that can take him to task. And I think the
movement is growing, and I think we're going to see
(40:07):
that big pie of the Democratic Party that doesn't always
show up really start to show up. And when we
show up, we win.
Speaker 1 (40:15):
Philip, what are you hearing, by the way, about how
the Trump campaign feels about this, how Trump feels about it.
There's been reporting that, you know that they're kind of
upset that they picked jd vance now because it's not
so good in this matchup as it might have been
against Biden.
Speaker 8 (40:29):
Well, I can bring a bit of news for you here, Jeremy.
The Trump campaign, in the course of this program alone,
President former President Trump has announced that he's pulling out
of the debates. He is saying essentially that he that
he feels like, hey, they're not really sure who the
nominee is gonna be, So for now, I'm just gonna
step back and see.
Speaker 9 (40:47):
And maybe we'll reorganize this later.
Speaker 8 (40:49):
Look, they weren't prepared for Kamala Harris as they were
prepared for Joe Biden. I do think that you know
your callers are right though, there is a hesitancy about
the vice president because look, I'm not worried about African
American women. I'm not worried about Asian American women. I'm
not worried about women of color in general. Right, Like
one of my sources said to me, they're casting this
cycle as it's gonna be either gonna be with the
(41:11):
aka's or the kkks, Right. But the question I think
is going to come down to the white women, suburban
white women in particular, is look, we saw in twenty sixteen,
fifty three percent of white women voted for Donald Trump.
So when we say, oh, this is gonna be a
woman's issue, woman, it could be very energized. What women
are we talking about here. My sister's in Atlanta, Georgia,
my sister's in Detroit. Absolutely, I think there's gonna be
(41:32):
some energy there in the suburbs. I'm not so particularly
sure of.
Speaker 9 (41:36):
Where.
Speaker 8 (41:36):
Was a focus group on MSNBC with a number of
white females of Trump supporters and right of center voters,
and they said, legitimately, they are afraid of Kamala Harris
because she has so many people of color and.
Speaker 9 (41:47):
Young people behind her. So this may not go right now.
We're in the middle of the Harris honeymoon.
Speaker 8 (41:52):
I'm waiting to see how this dies down in the
next few weeks and what the basement and the ceiling
for Harris will be.
Speaker 2 (41:58):
Let's go to Nancy, who is in Chicago. Nancy, go ahead,
welcome to the middle, Hey.
Speaker 5 (42:05):
White suburban woman, senior citizen.
Speaker 14 (42:08):
We are all in.
Speaker 5 (42:10):
We are all in for Kamala. We have a Democrat
group that started meeting after Trump was elected, and we
had twice as many people there yesterday, most of them women,
and the excitement in the room, it was so exciting.
And this is my happy thought. The thought of a smart,
(42:31):
hip black Asian woman defeating this man that bragged about
grabbing women. You know, that is joy. The thought of
Kamala beating Trump give me joy. And I think she's
the right person. I agree that the I feel the
Dems did the right thing because we don't have time
(42:52):
to debate with a bunch of people. We got to
get on the road. We got to get the show
on the road. And that's exactly what Kamala is doing.
And I can't wait till she is Madam President.
Speaker 2 (43:02):
Well, Nancy, thank you.
Speaker 1 (43:04):
And what brings me joy is that you didn't complete
the thought of what Trump said about grabbing women.
Speaker 2 (43:09):
By the blank on a live radio program.
Speaker 1 (43:12):
So I really appreciate you say, yeah, absolutely, Why don't
we go to Todd, who's in Houston.
Speaker 2 (43:22):
Todd, welcome to the Middle, Go.
Speaker 15 (43:24):
Ahead, Hey, great to be here, first time listening to
your show.
Speaker 9 (43:28):
I like it.
Speaker 15 (43:30):
I think there's you know, I think we tried this
in twenty sixteen. We all want a woman to be president,
but it's the way this nomination is happening. I feel
like it's being done. I feel like it's Honestly, in
twenty sixteen, I felt like the DNC under Wesserman Schultz
kind of rigged it a little bit in Hillary's favor,
Clinton's favor over Sanders as far as scheduling the debates
(43:53):
on Saturdays where there's low viewership and some crazy made
up scandal in Nevada during that primary about Sanders and
something about you know, speaking in Spanish or something. I
just feel like this is an anointment of Vice President Harris.
I feel like she needs to go through the convention process.
(44:14):
And if there's other people, if there's Tim Ryan in Ohio,
who I think would be a great VP for her
if she gets the nomination. But I just feel like
it's too much behind the scenes for the Democratic Party,
which is supposed to be you know, from the people,
or sister lies up from the people to choose our nominees,
and it's just kind of like that, you know, the
smoke filled rooms, the back rooms, you know, the power bookers,
(44:37):
the super delegates, the celebrities.
Speaker 2 (44:39):
You know, Yeah, Todd, we've got it. I think that's
a that's a great point.
Speaker 1 (44:43):
I'm glad you. I'm glad you brought it up. And Yvette,
what do you think about that? That's not the first
call that said that on this program. What do you
think about Democrats who are worried about that?
Speaker 10 (44:52):
I think I think, first of all, we've been through
all the primaries. I think if we were talking about
people who still had the chance to vote, I think
that would be a different thing. Kamala was on every ballot,
whether she was in the first and the second position,
I think would have felt more like an anointment, anointing,
anointing someone if they replaced her, she was already in line,
(45:12):
she had already been on the ballot, she had been
in she's been in the White House for the last
four years. My fear was that the powers that be
were going to come into a room and say it
should be somebody who's not the vice president. Typically in
our country, the vice president is the next person. So
I prefer that she was ready, that she moved. And
as somebody who's been a delegate on the DNS to
(45:33):
the DNC super delegate more than once, you know, I
hate those rooms. It would have been complete chaos and
we would have been that much closer to the first
ballots being cast. So I actually think the fact that
they were able to say she's the heir apparent, she
was on the ballot with Biden, She's been in the
White House for four years, she's the next natural choice
makes sense. To replace her would have probably looked like
(45:57):
the Democrats were saying, she's too black, she's to female,
she's too Asian, and we don't think she should win.
She can win that electability argument. So somebody had to
make a decision because of the timing, and I think
that decision was probably the right one. The fact that
she's been able to coalesce donors and get all of
her votes in line verbally shows that she is the
(46:17):
person that could get it done. And you got to
bet these people, which takes a long long time. As well.
Speaker 1 (46:23):
Let me just get one more call in here. I
know all the lines are full, and thanks for everybody
who called in. You can leave a message if you
don't get through. But Terry is in Saint Louis. Terry,
just briefly tell us what you think.
Speaker 24 (46:33):
I was really struggling.
Speaker 15 (46:35):
I do not like Trump.
Speaker 24 (46:39):
I voted against him in the past election, and I
would have been voting against him in this current election,
but well as Kamala Harris, I just feel energized, very
very similar to the way I fell with Baracoba. And
(47:03):
I just I'm so proud of Joe Biden for stepping aside.
I think that says he has the country's interest in
his best a country's best interest in his heart.
Speaker 15 (47:21):
I think that.
Speaker 24 (47:24):
It maybe took a little bit, but this is not
an easy position to step to help from. But the
way he's embraced his vice president, it's just yeah, I
feel energized again, and I'm and I'm ready. I truly
feel like when Barack was there.
Speaker 1 (47:44):
Yeah, yeah, Terry, thank you very much for that. And
I am going to have to say goodbye to our
wonderful guest. But Philip Bailey, just in a few seconds,
We've had an assassination attempt, We've had a candidate dropout.
Speaker 2 (47:56):
Do you think it gets any crazier than this between
now and the election?
Speaker 8 (48:00):
Look, this is the West Wing come to life. I mean,
these things from couldn't write in fiction and believe so.
I would implore all Americans to keep it calm, keep
it cool. But something else unprecedent has been an abused
word in this campaign, more unprecedent moments are coming.
Speaker 1 (48:15):
That's Philip Bailey, chief political correspondent for USA Today, and
Hevet Simpson, former executive director of Democracy for America and
current host of the Power of Why podcast.
Speaker 2 (48:22):
Thanks so much to both of you.
Speaker 10 (48:24):
Thanks for having us.
Speaker 9 (48:25):
Jeremy, Thanks Jeremy and Tolliver.
Speaker 1 (48:28):
Next week we're going to be talking about healthcare, why
it's so expensive, and what you want our next president
to do about it.
Speaker 3 (48:34):
That's right, and we have an all star lineup. Billionaire
entrepreneur and businessman Mark Cuban will be here. He's an
owner of the Dallas Mavericks and appears on Shark Tank,
but he also owns a low cost online pharmacy. Also
joining US former Health and Human Services Secretary Kathleen Saveelias,
who helped launch Obamacare.
Speaker 1 (48:51):
It's going to be a great show, and of course
we're taking your calls at eight four to for Middle.
The Middle is brought to you by Longnook Media, distributed
by Illinois Public Media and or Banat Illinois and produced
by Joanne Jennings, Harrison Patino, Danny Alexander, and John barth Our.
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so much to the four hundred and ten public radio
stations around the country making it possible for people to
(49:13):
listen to the Middle. I'm Jeremy Hobson and I will
talk to you next week.
Host
Jeremy Hobson
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