Melissa Rycroft Strickland (Part One)

Who can forget the Jason Mesnick switch? 
 
For the first time ever, Melissa is being transparent about why she turned down the Bachelorette and the disappointments she had in the franchise. 

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:01):
This is the most traumatic podcast ever and iHeartRadio podcast.
Hey everybody, Chris Harrison coming to you from the home
office in Austin, Texas. Hope everybody's being safe as a
massive hurricane is just made landfall here in Texas, going
through Houston and guy's going all the way up to
the East coast. So everybody be safe this week with

(00:22):
all the crazy weather going on. I'm excited about the
show today because someone who was a part of well,
you know how I say, used to say, this is
the most dramatic moment ever. Well, this was the most
dramatic moment ever. It was Jason Mesnick's season of The Bachelor.
It was two thousand and nine and he got engaged

(00:43):
to Melissa, and then there was the infamous switch where
Jason broke up with Melissa asked Molly out for a date.
The rest is Bachelor and history for all of them,
because now Jason and Molly are married and Melissa went
off to Dance with the Stars, did a bunch of
other stuff and is now happily married to her old

(01:06):
boyfriend Tie. They have three kids. But it was a moment,
a light bulb moment in the history of the show.
And again when I say, well, you know, when people
say what was the most dramatic, this was it. So
you know, the show had been on for gost two
thousand and nine, so we've been on since two thousand

(01:26):
and two, so you know, good seven years. This was
season thirteen of The Bachelor, which is hard to believe
because it seems so much long longer. But this really
blew things up in a way that it's hard to
even fathom now because there wasn't social media. There wasn't
a lot of what we have now that made things

(01:48):
so big. But despite not having social media and despite
not having all those avenues to talk about it, it
was massive, very controversial and a lot of ways. So
the show we're doing today is with Melissa Ryecroft. It's
a conversation I've really never had publicly with her. We've talked,

(02:08):
but it's been a while since I've seen her and
run into her as she is very busy again a
mother of three. But it's a conversation I've wanted to
have for a very long time. So I'm so excited
to have Melissa Yecraft on the show today because not
only were going to talk about Bachelor, bacherette stuff. But
she was also a Dallas Cowboys cheerleader just a year
before she came on The Bachelor. She was a Dallas

(02:29):
Cowboys surely a very popular one, had been there for
two years. And you know the reality show that is
blowing things up right now on Netflix. We got to
dive into that as well. So so much to talk
about with our guest today, Melissa Ryecroft. Melissa, it's so
good to see you again. Welcome to the show. I've
been I've been waiting for this talk for a long time.

(02:51):
Uh oh no, in a good way. I just I
just haven't seen you in a while. I mean, obviously
you have been raising three kids. What's what are the
what are the ages? Again?

Speaker 2 (02:58):
I have a thirteen year old now ten and eight,
so in a way in it, but they're getting bigger.

Speaker 1 (03:05):
Your oldest is thirteen.

Speaker 3 (03:06):
And my young my Caubooz is eight. Like that's really
sad to me.

Speaker 1 (03:10):
It's wild. So eight is that? Let's see? I said,
is it like fourth grade? Third grade? What is that?

Speaker 3 (03:17):
Oh, it's been a long time for you, hasn't it.

Speaker 1 (03:18):
No? Suse yes, Second, he's going in a second. So
he started, Okay, so because I know they start around
four or five, depending on old they are. That's kindergarten. Yeah,
then first, second, third, Yeah, okay, that has been a
look minor, I mean one out of college, one's about
to graduate. And this is crazy, I know, And you know,
I was thinking, this is one thing when I when

(03:39):
I bring on former constants from the show, that seem
and I don't mean this in a bad way because
it just ages both of us, but it's to me,
it honestly feels like a lifetime ago. But it's also
weird because it was season thirteen of The Bachelor, so
obviously we'd done it for a while. It was seven
years in. But at the same time, at two thousand
and nine, man, it feels like a long time ago. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (04:02):
I mean I still probably get recognized more for Bachelor,
oddly enough than anything else, which you know, and you know,
I mean again it's aging. It's this was twenty plus
years ago at this point, you know. But yeah, I
mean I was twenty three, I think going into or

(04:23):
maybe twenty two, twenty three, like just a baby, and
people will still come up to me like, oh, you
look so better off. I'm like, it's been twenty years.
But yes, I mean it was a long time ago.
But when I even see clips online, I'm like, that
doesn't even it doesn't look like me, it doesn't sound
like me. It's weird to have that part of your
life documented, right or everybody?

Speaker 1 (04:45):
Yeah, I can't imagine. I mean even when I see
pictures of when the show started, and every now and
then a clip will come out from the early early days,
you know, Alex Michelle or Bob Guiney or Trista, which
was you know, five six years before your season. Yeah,
it's that time capsule gets dug up and you're like,
oh my god, I was are your voice is still

(05:06):
high and you know, your cadence was different, and yeah,
I mean you were fresh out of college. I mean
you had gone to North Texas, you had danced for
the Dallas Cowboy cheerleaders for two years, and then you
came on.

Speaker 3 (05:17):
The Bachelor, and then I came on The Bachelor. Yeah,
oddly enough.

Speaker 2 (05:21):
And I think I've told you the story that I
was going through a breakup with.

Speaker 3 (05:26):
My now husband right now with Ti.

Speaker 1 (05:28):
Yeah, Hi, Yeah, we.

Speaker 2 (05:30):
Had been together for about two years and broke up
and I just had a real hard time getting over
it had one of my girlfriends who was a cheerleader
nominate me.

Speaker 3 (05:38):
I don't know how the process is now.

Speaker 2 (05:39):
Back in the day, you could go online and just
type in I guess somebody.

Speaker 1 (05:44):
I'll be honest, I don't think they know how the
process is now.

Speaker 3 (05:49):
And yeah, it just kind of happened. It was.

Speaker 1 (05:51):
Yeah, that was funny. I'm shocked. I think you were
the first, maybe in even the only Dallas Cowboy cheerleader.
I don't know if we've had more since then, but
I'm shocked we didn't have more, because, you know, being
from Dallas where I grew up, and I knew some
of the people from the Cowboys, and I had met
some of the cheerleaders from time to time. I may
have even been there while you were. I don't know

(06:13):
if I did. Did I ever come in the room
or like take pictures, or was on the field.

Speaker 3 (06:18):
It all feels a lot. I don't remember. I don't
remember the details. I have no idea.

Speaker 1 (06:22):
Because I'm a big Cowboy fan and I know the
Jones family fairly well, and so from time to time
I would come to a game, and every now and
then I would go in and meet some of the
cheerleaders or take a picture, And I was I wonder
if our paths ever came so close to crossing or
did cross and we just obviously didn't know each other.

Speaker 3 (06:39):
Weird. Yeah, no, I think about that stuff.

Speaker 2 (06:41):
But yeah, it was The cheerleaders back then were very
different than I mean, we were celebrities in the Dallas world,
you know, like coing out to bars and stuff. We
were little local celebrities.

Speaker 3 (06:54):
I guess. Yeah, now they're bona fide celebrities.

Speaker 1 (06:58):
Right, it's gotten so much bigger.

Speaker 2 (06:59):
Yeah, it's definitely a different thing. There was a girl,
do you remember Jasmine?

Speaker 1 (07:05):
Yeah, of course, Yeah, he was.

Speaker 2 (07:06):
A DCC and now okay, one of the vander Pump
spin off on wrong So yes, there was one other.

Speaker 3 (07:13):
I think she was the only one, but there was
one more.

Speaker 1 (07:18):
So yeah, I was just I mean because as I
was looking back this morning, as I was getting ready
to talk to you, and I'm like, man, two thousand
and nine, and in the lead up and open to
this conversation, I said, when people ask me, and I
always get asked, you know what is actually the most
dramatic moment you've ever been through on the show, Because

(07:38):
I say that quite a bit, and I said it
over twenty years, but I say it was this moment
it was two thousand and nine, now.

Speaker 3 (07:45):
Twenty years later, still holds.

Speaker 1 (07:47):
The most, still still does. I mean, there were there
were crazy moments, you know, whether it was Chad threatening
to kill me on the beach in Mexico or you
know the Jake Pavelka season that got wild, and you
know a lot of things went off the rails and
were bad or you know, bad in a good way
TV wise, but this moment was And this is what's weird.
That's why I wanted to talk to you, because obviously

(08:09):
I've spent time with you and we've chatted before. But
I think now that we've had time to kind of
really think about this and we've grown up and gotten
a little bit more experienced in our lives, it's funny
to think back on what an indelible mark this made
on my life. But clearly it was one of the
biggest moments of your life and Jason and Molly's course,
and to have shared in that is really wild to

(08:32):
me because usually, you know, a big moment for somebody
like you, you would just tell me about it, but I
lived it which was weird, which was so weird. I
should not have been there. I shouldn't have been there,
you know, Yeah, you shouldn't have be there.

Speaker 2 (08:47):
Yeah, it was I imagine for you it was completely awkward.
What what I specifically remember is when they would cut
to the commercial quote unquote, we're taking a break, and
it would just be silence nobody. And now that I've
done a few things, but that's not what happened. You
cut for commercially, you talk, you joke, you laugh, there

(09:08):
was it was silence with everybody for what two or
three minutes while we just kind of sat there.

Speaker 3 (09:13):
It was.

Speaker 1 (09:14):
It was And for those that don't remember, or maybe
you haven't been born yet at the time. So on
season thirteen to The Bachelor, Jason Mesnik was our bachelor.
We get to the end and we are in New Zealand, yeah,
and which was beautiful. And so we're in New Zealand
and it was pretty close coming to the end, but

(09:36):
we kind of knew he was going to choose Melissa,
and that's what happened. There was a proposal, It was beautiful,
We had a great time. We pop champagne, We go home. Yeah,
we jump in the pool, yeah, we had all these
moments and we you know, one of the funny things
before I move forward. I don't know if you know this,

(09:58):
but the proposal. Maybe this was like an omen Maybe
this was God saying guys, don't do this. But right
as the proposals about to happen, obviously we know he's
about to get down on one knee, the power goes
out in the control room. No, just it's never happened before,

(10:19):
it's never happened since. But right, I mean, we have,
you know, so just so people know, we're set up,
you know in usually houses or resorts or something. So
we'll take over a hotel room or maybe someone's bedroom
and we turn it into this huge control room. So
there's like ten monitors, there's audio behind us, there's you know,
there's all this equipment in this room. And it says

(10:39):
if someone just flipped one switch and it was just shoom,
that was God. That was that was God. That was
God saying, guys, stop this. And so I'll never it
because Ken Fuchs, our director, without even blinking an eye,
dropped everything threw off his headset, went sprinting, and it
was like we're good four hundred yards away sprinting down
this hill to get to the mountaintop where you guys were,

(11:02):
and he started just running from camera to camera to
make sure everybody was getting the shots. Luckily, you know,
the photogs on that show are the best in the
world at what they do, and so everybody just kept
doing their job and getting their shots of the you know,
the isoshot of Melissa, the isoshot of Jason, and the
two shots and then the jibs getting these big But
we didn't see that proposal. We didn't hear it. We

(11:24):
didn't know what we had until we got back home.

Speaker 3 (11:27):
So you didn't know. I said, yes, technically.

Speaker 1 (11:29):
We did well, we did because we ran down celebrate. Okay,
so we get home after that little anecdote, we get home,
when did you guys know that things weren't well?

Speaker 2 (11:41):
I mean, pretty quick, I'm going to be honest. Once
once the relationship turned to strictly phone calls, because back
then you didn't have FaceTime, you didn't.

Speaker 3 (11:51):
Have Zoom, you didn't you didn't have that.

Speaker 2 (11:53):
Phone calls And I think I think what I learned
was that the cameras created a protect around us of
there's always kind of something fun to talk about you
have your best stories, you have your best self, and
once that was gone, we didn't have a ton in common.

Speaker 1 (12:10):
Right well, and the show facilitates that. And I will
say we and as the show got better at facilitating
the relationships that we built in the in the early days,
and I think you were still considered early days, I
would say we didn't do a good job of facilitating relationships.
We did a good job at building them. Like you said,
we made sure that Melissa and Jason only got to

(12:31):
see each other for a short amount of time, so
it was always the honeymoon.

Speaker 2 (12:35):
Phase, right exactly, exactly, Yeah, And once the honeymoon phase
was gone, it was still you know, in my mind,
I just thought, we just need to see each other again.
This is because you know, I can't when I tell
people what this process was like for me, Like I
went from going into this a single woman, quote unquote

(12:56):
falling in love to what I thought I was falling
in love. I left an engaged and I couldn't tell
a soul. I couldn't tell my best friend, I couldn't
tell my parents found out because remember they were not
even on the show. My parents wouldn't go on the
show call them and just say no right and tell them.
But I couldn't. I couldn't delve into details of what
I was going through, And so I have this roller

(13:19):
coaster of emotions and now I've got a relationship that
is not even one hundred percent and I can't talk
to anybody about it because nobody even knows I'm engaged.
It was a really weird mind place to be in,
and so in my mind, I went.

Speaker 1 (13:34):
He's back in Seattle with his kid.

Speaker 3 (13:36):
He's back in his job with his kid, doing his
thing too.

Speaker 1 (13:39):
Then you're in Dallas and my little cubicle.

Speaker 2 (13:42):
It's like, it's like life, this huge life event happened,
and then we separated, pretended it didn't and continued with
our lives.

Speaker 1 (13:49):
You must have been like, did I did Did any
of that even happen?

Speaker 3 (13:53):
Mine?

Speaker 4 (13:53):
Key?

Speaker 3 (13:53):
Am I thing buried?

Speaker 1 (13:55):
I mean, it must have just seemed like some weird
fever dream it because it's like being shot out of
a cannon. Then you're just like, Okay, go back to
your life. And again that's where we didn't do a
good job back in the day of facilitating those relationships. Yeah,
we had those quote unquote happy couple get away weekends,
but we didn't do a good job. And like you said,

(14:15):
communication was a little more difficult because you just had
you just had to have a long distance phone call, and.

Speaker 2 (14:21):
You had to be at the same time, you know,
it had to be when I was off work and
you were off work.

Speaker 3 (14:24):
And yeah, but.

Speaker 2 (14:26):
Yeah, just I realized pretty quickly personalities were pretty different,
interests were pretty different. But I really thought, once this
is all over, the show is aired, we can finally.

Speaker 3 (14:38):
Be a couple.

Speaker 2 (14:40):
We'll be normal again, and it'll be fine. So that's
how I went into the after the final Rows, even
though no we can talk. You know, they bumped our
taping up like a month, and I remember asking, and
I was like, why did they bump our after the
final rose up? It wasn't supposed to tape until like
end of February, right, Oh that's.

Speaker 1 (14:59):
Right, that's right, And we did it right after Christmas, yes.

Speaker 2 (15:02):
And I was told, oh, it has to do with
Bachelorette taping. I'm like, okay. I remember talking to Jason.
I was like, do you know why they're doing this?

Speaker 4 (15:10):
And he goes, no, I have no clue.

Speaker 1 (15:24):
So yeah, I remember from the other side, I can
tell you. I got a phone call. I might have
even been like Christmas Eve. It was. I know it
was right around Christmas because I remember I was with
my family. I was on vacation, and they said, you know,
I don't know anything yet, but things aren't looking good
with Jason and Melissa. And they said, you know, we're
going back and forth, but just be prepared because why

(15:46):
the reason they called in the middle of Christmas week
is where are you going to be right after New
Year January? Yeah, just in case. And I was like, well,
I mean I don't know. I'm like, I can you know,
it's my job. I'll be available, and they said, okay,
we'll keep you post. And it wasn't a week later
that they called and said we are shooting something around
January seventh, whatever it was. I forget the shoot date,

(16:09):
but this is not going to go well, and we'll
keep you posted well.

Speaker 2 (16:15):
In reference, yeah, we actually got engaged over Thanksgiving, so
you can do the math.

Speaker 3 (16:20):
It was not a very long time.

Speaker 1 (16:22):
No, that was a short honeymoon right.

Speaker 2 (16:24):
That we were at home trying to make but in
I will say there was no breakup. Like I didn't
know production had been contacted.

Speaker 3 (16:32):
I didn't know.

Speaker 2 (16:32):
There were conversations of we're going to end this. That's
where when what happened on the After Final Rows happened.

Speaker 3 (16:40):
I was like, what they just had to tell me?

Speaker 1 (16:42):
All you had to do, yeah, was not pull the
rug up? So what Mliss is alluding to? So we decide,
you know, pretty early on, we started this special called
After the Final Rows. Now it's commonplace and they do
it every season. We didn't used to always do that,
so we do this show after the Final Row. We
always had a little bit of a studio audience and

(17:03):
it's a lot of fanfare or whatever. And with this one,
I get the call and they say, we're going to
do this at Telepicture Studio. It's where they used to
shoot the show Extra back in the day over there
at Telepictures in Burbank. And I don't even know if
that's the studio or the building exists anymore. I know

(17:23):
that Extra is not there anymore, but we're going to
do it in a dark studio without an audience.

Speaker 3 (17:29):
And I didn't know that was abnormal. I had no
idea that that was not I'm like.

Speaker 1 (17:32):
What and they said yeah, they're like they're like, that's
one good thing. I do think maybe it was good
they said, you know, we're going to do without an audience,
because what's going to happen is I think Jason is
going to break up with Melissa and he's going to
ask Molly for another chance. He's asking about Molly and
I think he's going to go back and ask her

(17:53):
for another chance. And I'm like, oh my god, like
what the f is? And so I'm like, okay. So
we get there that day and it is the studio
is just two chairs.

Speaker 3 (18:06):
You didn't know what was going to happen.

Speaker 1 (18:09):
No, I didn't know one hundred percent either, because you know,
you know, honestly, Jason back then, I don't know if
he knew for a hundred percent he was he was
a mess. He was he was a puddle of a
man at the time. I mean, he was such a wreck.
Not to take him off the hook at all, but
he was an absolute mess. And I did this really

(18:31):
overly dramatic open that you know, we're not going to
have an audience, you know, out of respect for everybody involved,
as if that made it better. Uh, you know, but
here was the biggest bizarre mistake, because well, we'll continue
to talk and then I want to go back and
tell you the biggest mistake we made among others. We
get in that studio and the first person to come

(18:52):
out is you. I don't know, and yeah, you you know,
because obviously he had to break up with you first,
so we and I don't know if he it might
have just been you and I first, or if it
was Jason. I want to say, if I recollect maybe
you and I sat and talked a loan first to
get a vibe for the what your thoughts were on
the relationship, and then y'all were together. But when did

(19:13):
you know in that talk that he was going to
actually break up? Did you feel the vibe as you
walked in?

Speaker 2 (19:19):
Still, to be completely honest, I felt something was wrong
going into that day, and I, you know, he and
I had like a conversation after because I remember before saying,
if there's something you need to tell me, like, just
tell me now, like I would love to know now
what we're getting into, and he said nothing. And I'm

(19:40):
in the little hair and makeup green room and I
had an outfit that I was going to wear and
they did not like that outfit, and they put me
in that little strapless metallic draft, which is nothing that
I would normally wear. They gave me the ring and
told me to put it on, and then they made
me watch the proposal. I'm doing all of this before
I go out to talk.

Speaker 1 (20:00):
To get you emotional right.

Speaker 3 (20:01):
And my mind.

Speaker 2 (20:02):
And this is again reality TV was so new, and
to me, this was not a show of oh how
am I going to act? So I didn't necessarily know
I was being prepped for something, but I felt. I
was like, I feel like this is really weird. Why
why it feels weird going into this?

Speaker 3 (20:17):
It feels weird? What I look like? It feels weird.
I'm watching this and the way he greeted.

Speaker 2 (20:25):
Me, and I don't remember if I was there first
or him. It was a really awkward hug greeting.

Speaker 1 (20:31):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (20:31):
And in my again, my whole thing was once we're together,
we'll be fine. He'll hold my hand, we'll have eye contacts.

Speaker 1 (20:38):
And there was none of that, no eye contact. I
remember him just turning his head like a little very.

Speaker 2 (20:43):
Cold from the start, and I went, Okay, here we go. Interesting,
We're gonna do this in Brint of Christ.

Speaker 1 (20:49):
All right, And it was just us, you know, there
was like three camera guys, but they were pulled back
really far there and show blacks and everything was really dark.
So it's unlike kind of anything I had ever showed before. Either.
It was really strange and sterile almost.

Speaker 2 (21:05):
It felt like it was just the three of us
in a dark Yeah is what it felt like.

Speaker 3 (21:09):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (21:10):
I felt and, like you said, awkward as it starts
and Jason starts talking and he says, you know we're
going to break up? Yeah? Whatever, Yeah, I saw this
change come over you.

Speaker 3 (21:22):
I you know what it was embarrassment.

Speaker 2 (21:25):
I think when I was so embarrassed that I had
gone on this show with people telling me not to
do it, my parents telling me don't do it.

Speaker 3 (21:37):
I knew people were going to watch this love story.

Speaker 2 (21:39):
They were gonna watch me get engaged, they were gonna
watch me be happy, and then they're gonna watch me
get dumped and broken up with.

Speaker 3 (21:47):
And I was so mad at him.

Speaker 2 (21:50):
In that moment, because again, we had just had this
conversation of just tell me if something's happening, tell me.

Speaker 3 (21:57):
I don't.

Speaker 2 (21:57):
I mean, listen, I'm with you. We're not on the
same right now, but he'll be against me. So yeah,
I mean there were a lot of weird emotions. And
then I'll be honest, I was looking at you. I
was looking at production, going, everybody is about to happen
to me and nobody. They sent me out here in
the stupid dress with his stupid ring.

Speaker 1 (22:16):
And I think you even said in your cute little
twenty three year old boys like, I'm so mad at you. Well,
and then I.

Speaker 2 (22:22):
Started hardly talking in the third person, which I never do.

Speaker 1 (22:25):
I don't know how many time I don't remember that.

Speaker 3 (22:29):
That's so I can't watch it.

Speaker 1 (22:30):
I can't Melissa Ryecroft is this doesn't happen to Melissa.
Melissa does this to guys?

Speaker 2 (22:37):
It was no, I never did, that was the thing.
But I think I was just really embarrassed. I was
so mad at him at the time, and I just
wanted to get off that stage and get out.

Speaker 1 (22:47):
Well, I can think now too, it's you know, that
would be like my son right now, which is crazy
to think he's twenty two about to turn twenty three.
That would be him right now doing being faced with
something like that, and you are wholly unprepared mentally, emotionally
to handle something like that.

Speaker 3 (23:07):
Yeah, and not.

Speaker 2 (23:09):
Even realizing at that point again because this was all new,
but that millions.

Speaker 3 (23:12):
Of people were going to watch this reaction.

Speaker 2 (23:15):
And I remember as I was leaving and I went,
I'm going to somehow look like the horrible person. Right,
he's the bachelor, he's the guy.

Speaker 1 (23:22):
Yeah, you have to know that's interesting.

Speaker 2 (23:24):
Yeah, my fault and that I've done something and now
I you know, I'm going to be the villain in
all of this.

Speaker 1 (23:31):
So at least that wasn't the case that he he
became the biggest villain in the history of the show.

Speaker 2 (23:40):
Can I just say the one thing that I really
hated out of all of this because you, I mean,
you were there a little bit, but not a lot,
like Molly and I were friends and all the girls
that we were genuinely friends. Jillian and I have coffee
in the morning. I never had anything towards Molly, and
I don't think I had anything towards me.

Speaker 1 (23:57):
I feel no, for sure.

Speaker 3 (23:59):
Not.

Speaker 2 (23:59):
The media set this whole thing up of you must
hate each other, and I'm like him.

Speaker 3 (24:04):
I'm gonna be honest.

Speaker 2 (24:05):
Yeah, I got at her because she was there for
the same reason I was. We got along, right, and yeah,
there was never anything anything between us, And to be honest,
once I came home and got over the stuff, I
wasn't even mad at Jason.

Speaker 3 (24:19):
I was like, you did me a favorite, dude, I'm happy, right.

Speaker 2 (24:21):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (24:22):
As you get older, you learn, you're like, oh, yeah,
I just read to everything that's happened, and yeah, totally
you yeah, but that is I do remember. Well. First
of all, my perspective was a It was the most awkward,
horrifying thing to be sitting through because it's like two
friends of yours are getting are breaking up, and you're like,
I'm just gonna sit here quietly, and and by the way,

(24:46):
one foot away from you, I'm just gonna stay here.
I'm just gonna look at you. It was so awkward.
I just wanted to dig a hole underneath my chair,
crawl in it, and just go away. But so, you know,
as a young kind of host, because I you know,
I've been doing this seven years, but it was this
was different, and it was unlike anything I had ever

(25:06):
hosted before, unlike anything that had ever happened. Again, this
had never happened on the show before, it never happened
on reality TV before. It was very groundbreaking and very
earth shattering at the time, and it kind of if
the Internet had really been firing at that point with
social media, it broke the Internet.

Speaker 3 (25:23):
I'm so glad it was not, by the way, I
am so glad.

Speaker 1 (25:26):
Would you imagine could you imagine if social media had
existed back then?

Speaker 2 (25:31):
Uh No, I mean I am so thankful, Like I
think there's people going, oh my gosh, but do you
know how huge you guys would be. And I am
so thankful that all of that happened. And I actually
had time to go home six process go through all
those emotions. Because again, you know how I was telling you,
I went through all the happiness on my own. I
also had to go through this breakup on my own.

(25:52):
Like I went back home after this filming. Oh man,
we couldn't tell anybody. Hey, I was engaged for six
weeks and then I got dumped. Oh and he went
back to the other girl.

Speaker 1 (26:01):
You're going to see it all, play it on national TV.

Speaker 2 (26:03):
I'm at home in my cubicle, just like spiraling, Like
I don't understand what's happened in my life the past
two months. It was a very surreal moment, and I
cannot imagine if on top of that, I was dealing
with people on social media who you've got half that
are nice and then you've got half that are just nasty.

Speaker 1 (26:22):
About everything you're being kind, I would say three quarters.

Speaker 2 (26:27):
Right as a twenty three year old, I mean, that'll
totally affect you.

Speaker 1 (26:30):
I think, yeah, no, I do you know, I don't
relish the people that go through. It's changed now, it's
actually it ebbs and flows. It was huge for a minute, right,
it was like it got really really big. Now I
don't know how much social media cares anymore. The show
is just not as as relevant socially relevant as it

(26:51):
used to be. But for a while, you know, when
some of these women like Caitlin Bristow or some of
these women would go through the show, I'm like, good lord,
they're just getting hammered from all sides. And again it's
the worst of the worst. And if you're young, like
being older, you know, by then I understood. And people
sent death threats to me all the time. I mean

(27:12):
I would eat those for breakfast, and you just got
you know, people would say things about you that are
just horrifying or your family, and you let them roll
off your back. But when you're twenty two twenty three
to twenty five whatever these people are when they're on
the show. That stuff's devastating.

Speaker 2 (27:27):
Yeah, because that I think becomes what you think your
identity is. When you start here say that about you, Well.

Speaker 1 (27:33):
When you wrap your identity up and the good stuff, right,
you want to believe that you're that great. You know,
everyone's telling you you're awesome, you're awesome, and you start
to actually believe you're awesome, which also isn't true. You're
not you know, you're not as good as Yeah, you're
not as good as the press says, but you're not
as bad as social media says. But people do start
believing that they are real, these huge celebrities and they're stars,
and you know, because the world has opened up to

(27:55):
you in a way that you are not prepared for
or used to. Red carpets and you're flying first class
here on the late night shows and you're up here,
and then you get torn down because people want to
do that on social media and it's really brutal.

Speaker 2 (28:11):
Well, they want to tear you down, but also there's
always somebody knocking at that door. There is going to
be the next bachelorette that's gonna then take all your
thunder and as awesome as you were for six months.
Now you're like, well, wait a minute, wait a minute.

Speaker 1 (28:23):
Yeah, what about me? Remember me?

Speaker 3 (28:25):
So I am very.

Speaker 2 (28:27):
Glad I didn't have that. You know, I was able to.
I had a cool little career come out for a
few years, but then I was able to just come
back to Dallas and be a wife and be a
mom and do what I kind of always wanted to do.

Speaker 1 (28:37):
Did you did you ever talk to Jason, Molly or Melissa, like,
have you are yell in contact at all? Or did
y'all ever get a chance to chat?

Speaker 2 (28:44):
No?

Speaker 3 (28:44):
You know there was one time you remember that show
Wife Slop.

Speaker 1 (28:48):
Baby, So yeah, y'all did that?

Speaker 3 (28:49):
Didn't No, he did not.

Speaker 2 (28:51):
Thankfully we were this was this was fifteen years ago,
and ty and I were going through the process of
it and I was like, I don't know, it could
be fun whatever.

Speaker 1 (28:59):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (29:00):
Thankfully at the end, one of.

Speaker 2 (29:02):
The producers, and she probably was not supposed to tell
me this, she goes, hey, I just want to give
you a heads up. They want to swap you with
Jason and Mollie and Tyne.

Speaker 1 (29:11):
I went, no, that's a no for us. By the
way great producing. I respect the producers. You know what
I did to trying to pull that off.

Speaker 2 (29:19):
I hope, yeah, but I went there. They're gonna want
this weird conversation that isn't even needed anymore, and they
want the drama.

Speaker 3 (29:26):
Right, We've all moved I had kids, I think they
had had kids at that point. I'm like, it's just.

Speaker 1 (29:31):
Not I would love I don't really care about you
and Jason. I would love for you and Molly to
have a cup of coffee someday, not not on.

Speaker 3 (29:36):
Camera, because she got annihilated with him.

Speaker 1 (29:41):
She got hammered too, and unfairly, so I mean it
was and look, I mean everyone honestly got unfairly hammered.
Jason shouldn't have been that, you know, villified either. It
wasn't you know, it wasn't cool, but it wasn't the
worst thing in the world. He wasn't the devil, and
he you know, everybody moved on, and you I love
the fact that he and Molly fought, you know, fought

(30:02):
through all of it, stayed together. They're happily married with kids.
So everybody ended up where they should in life. It just,
you know, it doesn't always happen in the perfect way.
As I always say, is the stuff I went through.
It's like God. God gives you a lot of blessings,
a lot of gifts. It doesn't always come in a
beautiful little box with a bow on it under the tree.

Speaker 3 (30:20):
Right right.

Speaker 2 (30:21):
I mean, at the end of the day, Jason and
I were never a relationship that was going to last anyway,
whether it ended six weeks after we got engaged, or
whether we tried to force it create a marriage that
was ultimately not gonna last.

Speaker 3 (30:35):
Like it was not a relationship that was supposed to happen.

Speaker 1 (30:37):
Because I remember talking to you later because we'll talk
about this, Melissa and I and I know you guys
don't remember we ended up hosting a show together. Yes,
we co hosted a show together. But before that, you know,
I do remember you going back to Tye and I
think you know, or I'll just ask you, did that

(30:58):
give you the perspective of who you are, what you
really want and to go back and find that and
to work on that.

Speaker 3 (31:07):
Yes, well it was twofold for us.

Speaker 2 (31:10):
Like I I came out of The Bachelor, I feel
like a very different person than I went in. I
came out stronger. I came out realizing I'm in all
these relationships wanting you to want me, wanting you to
want me, and I'm not ever sitting there going but
do I want you?

Speaker 1 (31:24):
Yeah?

Speaker 3 (31:24):
Are you selling yourself to me?

Speaker 1 (31:26):
Are you a value at in my life?

Speaker 2 (31:28):
I I don't know why I was so insecure because
I look back at my twenty three year old SLF
going girlfriend. You had a ton of things going for you,
and yet you were oddly insecure. And now having a
daughter now that I like, I get hyper aware of that,
of like what happens to make you not realize your worth?

Speaker 3 (31:44):
And so I did.

Speaker 2 (31:45):
I came out going I'm not doing this anymore. And
at the same time, while I was gone on the Bachelor,
Ty realized that he wanted to be with me right
when he saw me with somebody else and he saw
the end that I was engaged to somebody else, that
that was his is holy crap, you know what. I
wasn't ready.

Speaker 3 (32:04):
Right.

Speaker 2 (32:05):
I let her go and the worst scenario happened, and
so he fought back for me. So I think our
relationship worked because we had both changed. It was not
the same relationship that it was the first time. But
would it have happened if I hadn't left.

Speaker 3 (32:18):
I don't think so.

Speaker 1 (32:20):
I don't think it wasn't the break you wanted, but
it was the break you needed to realize both of you.
And so you get done with the with the Bachelor

(32:42):
and you did Dance with the Stars. You did? You
won that? Didn't you think you won?

Speaker 3 (32:48):
I wont it the second time?

Speaker 1 (32:49):
Not?

Speaker 3 (32:49):
Yeah, the first time, I didn't.

Speaker 1 (32:51):
But I also know that they wanted you to be
the bachelorette. Yes, they wanted you bad to be the
bachelrett Yes that was It ended up being Jillian Jillian
season of the Bacherette, who we love and I, oh
my god. And no offense, but I had a blast
to a Jillian. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (33:10):
No, I'm going to take it either load.

Speaker 1 (33:12):
But I you know, and this wasn't me making these decisions,
So I can just say this honestly, I know they
wanted you desperately because it just made sense. I mean,
after what we'd just seen, the trials and tribulations, that's
what we did at the time. I mean it was
the perfect segue into making Melissa Ryecroft the batcherette. Tell
me how that how those talks went and why didn't

(33:33):
you do it?

Speaker 2 (33:34):
I was in the limo on my way back to
my hotel after Jason had just broken up with me,
and Carrie Lee was doing my interview.

Speaker 1 (33:44):
Your producer at the time, right, and she.

Speaker 2 (33:47):
Goes, Hey, but good news is you get to be
the bachelorette now, and I went, I am fifteen minutes
off of this stage.

Speaker 1 (33:55):
I'll talk about too soon, right.

Speaker 2 (33:57):
And I went and that's like, you think that's a
consolation price And I went, no, No, I am.

Speaker 3 (34:05):
Not in that at all.

Speaker 1 (34:06):
It's going to be a no for me to know.

Speaker 2 (34:08):
And then Martin was calling me. They were very adamant
that I needed to finish my story. That's what the
audience needs to see that you're happy the audience.

Speaker 4 (34:18):
Hey.

Speaker 2 (34:20):
And my argument, to be fair was, listen, I just
saw you throw your bachelor under the bus, and I
would feel stupid saying sure, I'll jump right back into that.

Speaker 1 (34:30):
You guys will never do that to me, right.

Speaker 2 (34:32):
I mean, I'm like, I would be an idiot to
trust that you would make this work.

Speaker 1 (34:37):
For me, and not very very savvy of you at
the time.

Speaker 3 (34:40):
At the well, I mean, you know, I was upset.

Speaker 2 (34:43):
I was embarrassed. I was so and I know how
production works. Now, again, this is all twenty twenty five years.
At the time, though, I was like, I feel like
I was a little puppet and everybody knew what was happening.

Speaker 1 (34:53):
Well, by the way, that's not exactly how production works.
That's how the Batchelor production works. And as you know,
if you've learned anything, there is nothing like that show
in the world of television.

Speaker 2 (35:04):
No, what's so funny is you know? Dancing with the
Stars came pretty quick after all that, and you.

Speaker 1 (35:10):
Know, Dina casts the casting director. She cast a lot
of shows, but she was the casting director for Dancing
with the Stars for quite some time.

Speaker 2 (35:18):
But I would ask her stuff. I said, so at
the hotel, is it my name or is it another name?
And she goes, yes, it's your name. Why would it
be anybody else that I was like, oh, because I
was a whole. I was a character, and like they
never start aims on Bachelor, but things that I would
tell her and she's like, oh, my gosh, no, that's
not how we do it. You're allowed to go out
during the day, you can go. I was like, I
don't have to stay in my hotel room.

Speaker 3 (35:40):
I can do things.

Speaker 1 (35:40):
Yeah, we come out of this traumatized and damaged, expecting
the worst, which is which is probably a good thing,
because after you do that show and what happened to you,
you were prepared for everything and everything else was just
positive in a bonus, I.

Speaker 2 (35:52):
Guess so, but yeah, I did. I was very adamant.
They did not take my nose. They they fought for
a long time. They kept up in the money. I
remember that they what.

Speaker 1 (36:01):
Did the money get to? Did it get over six figures?

Speaker 3 (36:04):
No? No, but this was two thousand and nine too.

Speaker 1 (36:06):
It was h no, No, it's exactly.

Speaker 2 (36:08):
I know that.

Speaker 1 (36:09):
I know Emily Maynard got really high just because of
you know, she had a daughter and it was it
was taking a lot to get her. But I know,
I just remember on the periphery, I would call and
me be like, you know, do because I assumed you
were going to be the bacherette. And this is also
you and I weren't chatting and talking. You know, again,
we don't have social media where you could just text somebody.

(36:30):
But I just assumed you were going to do it
like they because they are persuasive.

Speaker 3 (36:34):
Once those numbers kept going up, I was like, dude,
I make twenty five thousand dollars a year, my cube.

Speaker 1 (36:38):
Well, and you're at this point, you're what twenty three,
twenty four years old. It's a year later, and I
know who's talking to you. It is the creator of
the show. It's all the executive producers. My guess is
the head of reality at ABC was definitely talking to you.
And I think at the time the president of the

(36:59):
network was coming after you. The president of ABC guys.
To put in perspective, that doesn't happen eventually. Typically the
Bachelor bechette may meet them, may may meet them, but
you were getting the full court press because they felt
like the franchise hinged on you coming back to us.

Speaker 3 (37:21):
Yeah, and I see that now. At the time, I
didn't realize.

Speaker 2 (37:23):
I was like, I don't I'm telling them, no, I
don't understand why nobody's listening to me. And every time
that I would see a phone like a number from
California calling me, I was like, oh my god, we
have to do this conversation again. But I understand now
why they needed me or what I represent, right, They
needed that full circle moment because it wouldn't make sense

(37:45):
to bring anybody else in after seeing what they.

Speaker 1 (37:47):
Just saw right. Well, and it's kind of we were
I say again, the third person, we like the Bachelor
franchise was catching heat for what we did to you.
And and one of the interesting things in a lesson
I learned, as much as I had done television, one
of the great lessons I learned was we made the

(38:09):
mistake of not figuring out a way to make to
explain to people how time had passed and in the timeframe.
So what happened was we were in New Zealand, Melyssa
gets engaged to Jason. We're happy, happy, you jump in
a pool. This is crazy. Oh my god, it's the

(38:30):
greatest because everybody loved you. I mean, you were America's sweetheart.
Everybody loved you. And Jason the single dad, and oh
my god, this is great. Commercial break. Buy some McDonald's,
buy some laundry detergent, Come back, Dark Studio.

Speaker 3 (38:45):
It aired the same night, didn't it. They did the
finale and the afternats.

Speaker 1 (38:48):
Well say, it was two and a half minutes later. Literally,
we take a commercial break and we come right back
to me. You know, Darth Maul, Darth Vader in this
dark studio like death warmed over with this very solemn
we are doing this out of respect? Is like wait,
like what Melissa's hair is still wet? She just fell

(39:09):
in a pool two minutes ago, and now we're bringing
you out for this unbelievably sad, destructive moment. People tore
us apart. I caught so much for that.

Speaker 3 (39:20):
I didn't know any of that stuff.

Speaker 1 (39:22):
Had taken and that wasn't out of malicious intent at all.
That was just us being producers and not thinking ahead
of how was this going to be perceived by Bachelor
Nation in the public. And I will tell you how
it was perceived not well, not well. And so another
another reason why everybody woke up for months at a
time and just had meeting upon meeting of how do

(39:44):
we get Melissa back? Because we also kind of needed
you to validate us again and say, oh, I don't
hate them. You know these people are okay.

Speaker 3 (39:53):
And to be fair, I have never said I hated No,
you did not.

Speaker 2 (39:57):
I've never come out and said they're awful, they're horrible,
because I wouldn't have ended up where I did without Batcheltte.

Speaker 1 (40:03):
And in fact, you, to the contrary, you came back,
and you were a part of our family, and you
did things with this and all that. You were never
malicious and you were never mean. The fans knew to
do that without you, But that.

Speaker 2 (40:15):
Was also kind of I think, if I recall, my
first season of dancing was like the first seasons of
social media. Like I remember having a Twitter and never
having a Twitter before and figuring that out, and so
I do remember because I think the r After the
final rowse aired on Monday, Dina Katz called me on

(40:36):
a Tuesday and said, Nancy O'Dell has gotten hurt on
Dancing with the Stars. We want you to come in again.
I said no. I was like, no, I don't ABC.

Speaker 3 (40:45):
People are weird.

Speaker 2 (40:46):
Take no for answered universal word no, And I called
Ty and I were back together at this point mid March,
right and I had told him and he goes, well,
how much would you get paid? I said, I didn't
even ask that. I don't care how much i'd get paid?

Speaker 3 (41:01):
Are you kidding?

Speaker 2 (41:03):
And he goes, we'll ask, And so I called Dean
and I said, all right, this stupid question, how much
wohld I get paid? And she told me what week
one costs? And I went or what week one pays?

Speaker 1 (41:14):
And I went, oh, interesting, because it's I think it
was twenty five k just for week one, right, oh
it was.

Speaker 3 (41:20):
It was a six figure for week one.

Speaker 1 (41:23):
Oh, just being oh so they did okay, I forgot
I remember they.

Speaker 3 (41:27):
And then it goes up by twenty five.

Speaker 1 (41:28):
Then it goes out okay. Oh, then it goes oh
got it, got it, got okay. So yeah, so just
being on You're like, oh, okay, so we're talking.

Speaker 2 (41:34):
So I was like, ty, I could go for week
one and get kicked off, you know, and I have
made five years of what I would make, and I
obviously I had to talk to you.

Speaker 3 (41:44):
I think it was Martin at the time.

Speaker 1 (41:46):
Yeah, yes, And so then and there was a very
contentious relationship between for our production. And I know you're thinking, wait,
it's ABC, So there's all this love, there's not. It
is so dysfunctional, it is so toxic. It is a
mess because the creator of our show hates ABC, and
ABC hates the creator of our show. So I was

(42:10):
always the bastard stepchild caught in the middle, and so
were you. So were was everybody else who's trying to
you know, you'd think there's this synergy. There is at
the point that Melissa is talking about, there is zero synergy,
and so Dina and them were reaching out and now
you're thinking, oh, I'll just do this, but the Bachelor

(42:31):
didn't want you to do it.

Speaker 3 (42:32):
I want me to do it.

Speaker 2 (42:33):
Yeah, it was I don't know how it happened. I
assume if I had to think back, Bachelor finally had
to wave a white flag and go, if we need
the world to see that she's okay and she's not
going to do it with us, we have to let
her do it now.

Speaker 3 (42:50):
They were not happy about it. I know that now.

Speaker 1 (42:52):
Oh, trust me. They were pissed because they felt like
you were being stolen from us. Our story, Our girl
was being stolen from us, and her story was going
to continue, but not on our franchise, and it was
a huge blow to us. It was an ego blow
for them, and it was also a financial blow because
it did I mean, I again, I love Jillian. No,

(43:15):
she was flight against her, but a Melissa Ryecroft Bacherette
season would have been massive, off the charts massive.

Speaker 2 (43:24):
In those meetings, could they not understand why I was saying?

Speaker 4 (43:27):
No?

Speaker 3 (43:27):
Are they like? I don't get it. Why would she
not want to do this?

Speaker 1 (43:30):
The ego is not would not allow that to happen.
And it was just like, this is just this person
who I created, who owes me everything. How dare her
turn me down? Where it turns from I love you,
I love you. I love you too, I will ruin you.
I don't know if you felt that, but I'm sure
it happened.

Speaker 2 (43:49):
I mean I didn't feel I will ruin you, but
I was definitely cast off. Like people would always ask, oh,
why are you not at these Bachelor events?

Speaker 3 (43:55):
Why are you not here? Why are you not there?
I'm like, I don't get invited.

Speaker 1 (44:00):
You're dead to us. A lot of people try, you know,
wanted to do Caitlin Bristow was a great example of
She wanted to be on dancing and made it very
well known, and they held that over her and did
not allow it to happen for a long time. Yeah,
and then finally cooler heads prevailed and she did dancing.
And then it kind of became commonplace that you'll do
The Bachelor and go on Dancing with the Stars, and

(44:22):
that became kind of a routine because one show kind
of would help the other and vice versa, which again
one of the craziest moments in my career was I
had been asked to help do an interview for another
ABC show and I thought, it's ABC, right, Like, they're
my boss too. So I worked for Telepictures, Warner Brothers,

(44:43):
Bachelor People, but I also worked for ABC, so if
they asked me to do something, I'm going to do it.
It's the network and it I was used as a
pawn the same way and my job was threatened. It
was crazy. So I saw this happening to.

Speaker 2 (44:58):
You well when I really felt it. And you'll know
this because you were there too when all the Bachelor
pen stuff happened, and that was a battle between ABC
and Warner Horizon, and ABC wanted me to be a
part of the show and Warner Horizon did not. And
I have nothing to do with it. I'm not sitting
here going yep. I'm like, I'm kind of I'm new

(45:22):
to this whole thing. I'll do whatever you.

Speaker 3 (45:23):
Want me to do.

Speaker 1 (45:24):
This is so after just to catch people up after
Dancing with the Stars, Melissa and I co hosted a
show called Bachelor Pad.

Speaker 3 (45:32):
Was a fantastic premise for a show.

Speaker 1 (45:34):
It was It was poorly produced. We brought somebody in
because it was it turned into a bit of a
game show. Yeah, there was like I don't know if
I forget quarter of a million dollars to the winter
or whatever. It was this prisoner's dilemma at the end.
And it was a really cheaply shot show too. We
shot it at the mansion. We literally did most of
the challenges in the driveway at the mansion. So it

(45:56):
was the prelude to what became Bachelor in Paradise.

Speaker 3 (45:59):
That ever better though than Bachelor of Paradise because you
have that end.

Speaker 1 (46:02):
Goal the game. Well, you have the game element, which
was good and bad because then it became about the
game and not love. And there were several issues with her,
which I can dive into, but the whole point was
I get a call and I will again one of
those moments with Melissa I'll never forget. I'm at a
little League game for my son and I get a
call from the creator of the show and he's like, hey,

(46:24):
I got great news for you. And whenever he called
and said I have great news, I knew it was
nothing good for my career in my life. And he
goes Melissa Ryecroft is going to co host this new show,
Bachelor Pad with you. I'm like what who? Like what what?
And he's like yeah, and he's like, this comes from

(46:47):
the President of ABC, Steve McPherson. This comes from the
highest of highs at ABC. She is going to be
a part of this franchise. And I'm like, okay, well,
I mean okay, I no saying this. And so you
and I met and it was wonderful and we had
a good time and we figured it out. The show

(47:07):
was not made for two people, and so we you
and I figured it out, and I hope you know,
I really went out of my weight. I'm like, okay,
I'm going to try and make this happen so we
can both be co hosting this together because that format
wasn't prepared for that. And you and I co hosted
that summer together, which was actually great. We had a
great time.

Speaker 3 (47:25):
It was fun.

Speaker 2 (47:26):
No, it was a lot of fun. I mean I
at that point, I came in extremely green. You know,
I was not expecting anything to happen that happened after Bachelor, right,
I mean, back in our days of Bachelor, you were
a contestant and then you went back off to your world,
like it was not a what else can I parlay?

Speaker 3 (47:44):
I knew very well.

Speaker 2 (47:45):
I was walking into other people's territory. It was like,
this is not my show. I feel weird. He was
just looking at me a year ago and except a.

Speaker 3 (47:53):
Rose like, I get it.

Speaker 2 (47:56):
I just remember from I could I could definitely tell
from the production the standpoint. I was like, I they
have lost this battle, and I know they've lost this battle,
and I'm just gonna.

Speaker 3 (48:05):
Tiptoe and keep my spot where they want me. I will.

Speaker 2 (48:08):
I think I was unmiked, Like the last three episodes
of we filmed, They're like, we're not even gonna put
the mic on you.

Speaker 3 (48:13):
I was like, that's.

Speaker 1 (48:14):
Okay, that's okay, And I know you were also, you
know we did that together. You're rumored to be heading
to Dancing with the Stars as the host of that.
I know you were up for that for a while. Yeah,
but it was a It's funny that, you know, someone
who came on the show as a contestant became such
an important part of this franchise in so many interesting ways,

(48:37):
and in front of the camera but also behind the scenes,
like you were the tipping point of a lot of
things that happened on this franchise weird.

Speaker 2 (48:44):
But I think a lot of it was timing too.
You know, the it happened, it was going from what
you call like the og Bachelor's into this new age
world and social media, and you know, now these people
are getting notoriety and it's not I mean, it was
just world was changing right at the time that this
huge event happened to happen on the show. So it

(49:05):
really just had it happened two years earlier, I don't
think any of this would have happened.

Speaker 3 (49:10):
You know.

Speaker 1 (49:10):
And then flash forward to like Ari season when the
switch happened again and I was fully prepared. I sat
him down, I said, let me tell you how this
is going to go, and let me tell you how
this is going to go for you. It's not going
to go well, but it was. I was so prepared
for that moment with him and Becca and Laura, and
it was like it's like it wasn't it was a

(49:31):
big deal, but it wasn't what I you know, wasn't
the earth shattering moment that became the most dramatic moment
in Bachelor history. I mean, Melissa, thank you so much.
I totally really appreciate that the time. I love talking
to you, and we have to do this again soon.
In fact, we have to do it real soon because

(49:53):
we're going to talk about your time as a Dallas
Cowboy cheerleader, which is all the rage right now thanks
to Netflix and this document. So as you wrap this
one up, go check out the next interview with Melissa
as we talk all about her experience of being a
Dallas Caboy cheer leader. Thank you, Melissa, Thanks thanks for listening.

(50:13):
Follow us on Instagram at the most dramatic pod ever,
and make sure to write us a review and leave
us five stars. I'll talk to you next time.