April 15, 2025 • 28 mins
It’s the final and sixth season of the wildly popular Hulu Series that so many of us are obsessed with! Set in the fictional- yet sometimes eerily parallel - community that has taken over the United States where women are property of the state. Everyone’s favorite “Martha” Amanda Brugel joins us to talk everything Handmaid’s Tale - from the incredible story of how she got the role, to what we can expect this season - Brugel says it’s a love letter to fans. We hope you enjoy this interview as much as we did!
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:02):
Welcome to Amy and TJ. And we are very excited
about this edition of our podcast because it is season six,
the final season of Handmaid's Tale. Every woman I know
is obsessed with it. We have discussions about each episode
after they're over, and Wow, this season has already begun
(00:23):
with a bang. But I want to make sure everyone
knows who's listening. We are not going to give away
any spoilers in case you haven't started the new season yet,
but the first three episodes dropped on April eighth, and
then there are new episodes that roll out every Tuesday.
So this is exciting. It only gets sad when they're
all gone. So we still have so many more to
consume and so many plot lines to follow. And we're
(00:45):
going to assume that if you're already listening to this episode,
you're likely a fan of Handmaid's Tale. But if you
don't know it's premise, let me give you just a
quick synopsis. The series is set in a fictional community
we can call it that called Gilead. It's a society
that has basically taken over the United States after an
(01:05):
environmental disaster has left most women unable to have children,
so it takes the few remaining fertile women and forces
them into sexual servitude to have children for childless couples. Essentially,
women are property of Gilead. And we have one of
the stars from Handmaid's Tale with us. She plays Rita,
(01:26):
who at the beginning of the series plays a Martha,
which is basically a maid or a domestic worker for
these Gilead families. And she is the Martha for a
very prominent Gilead family. And I want to say here
that TJ wanted to be with us on this podcast,
but he's feeling a bit under the weather, so he
sends his regards because he was very excited as well
(01:48):
to be talking to the one and only Amanda Brugal.
So Amanda, thank you for coming on the podcast, and
thank you for talking with us. I'm so excited to
have you on.
Speaker 2 (01:58):
You're welcome. I'm so excited to meet you and to
discuss all that is Handmaids.
Speaker 1 (02:04):
Wow. I mean, do you have these same conversations with
your girlfriends even though you know what's coming and you
know what's about to happen. Do you still find yourself
having debriefs with the women in your life.
Speaker 2 (02:14):
Yeah? I know, not really. I mean, I think because
they're with me throughout it. It's got every week, they
were together almost every day, so they know what's coming up.
What I do love is having conversations with complete strangers
on the street, Like it's the one thing I found
in my life, the one job that suddenly all sort
(02:37):
of weird social contracts are out the window and suddenly
I'm hugging people in the street or bonding or telling
really intimate stories with complete strangers. And it's the thing
I love about art, but specifically this show. It just
just throws all of the formalities to decide and we're hugging.
I love it.
Speaker 1 (02:57):
You know what? That is so interesting? That makes so
much sense because this is a show that touches on
so many I would say, deep seated fears or maybe
not that deep seated among women about our role in society,
and especially given today's political climate, perhaps even more so
over the last several years, certainly since Handmaid's Tale has
(03:20):
come out, there have been so many eerily similar things happening,
parallel things happening in politics that I think the show
even probably had more significance and more prominence than ever
before because all of a sudden women are thinking, my god,
could that happen here? Or are we on a path
(03:41):
where that could one day in the future happen. What
do people say to you when they come up to you.
Speaker 2 (03:46):
I mean people ask me how It's almost like they
want my advice, like will this happen? Is it close?
What should I do? And so I have to sort
of feel like sometimes a therapist to sort of say
to them that were, although it seems close, we're not
quite there yet. I too, am just as afraid. I
(04:09):
don't really have any secrets of how to navigate fictitious gilliad.
A lot of people talk to me about watching it
with their children, not children, but the sort of teen daughters,
how to navigate conversations with them, and just really people
looking ultimately for my advice and how to navigate gilliad,
How to navigate if this were to happen, and then
(04:31):
what would I do?
Speaker 1 (04:33):
That is wild. I did not expect you to say that,
But then when you say it, I guess it makes sense.
But were you prepared for any of that?
Speaker 2 (04:40):
No, not at all. I mean I did. What's interesting
about the book is that I'm Canadian, and so I
read the book when I was fifteen, was obsessed with
the book. In love with the book. I wrote my
thesis on it to get into university. I didn't know
if I was waiting to stop children a writer. Yeah,
I didn't know an actor or writer. And to get
(05:01):
into the writing program, I chose the Handmaid's Tale. I
chose to write it on the book, but I chose
to write it on Rita.
Speaker 1 (05:07):
This was in Night You've got to be kidding me No.
Nineteen ninety six, nineteen ninety six, and so Rita has
been with me for a long time.
Speaker 2 (05:14):
So I do feel a little bit like a Handmaid's
Tale expert, but not so much so where I can
help others navigate their lives.
Speaker 1 (05:23):
That is such a full circle moment, crazy. Can you
take me back to the moment when you first auditioned
and were you auditioning specifically for this role that you
wrote your thesis around.
Speaker 2 (05:35):
I was, well, you know, the casting director in Canada,
I talked so much about the book. It's like I
had shares, like I was trying to push the book
on people, had copies in my pocket. The Canadian casting
director knew for years how much I loved the book,
and she said, oh, the book that you like, I
I'm casting for it, and she said, I'm not. I'm
(05:55):
going to bring you in so you can speak the lines.
You're not going to get it. It's going to go
to an American, but just just so you can come
in and audition. And so that first audition I was
there and Bruce Miller, our showrunner, and Read Morano, our
director who started this whole ball rolling, were there and
we just talked openly about the book, and I gave
my advice and how I thought what I thought some
(06:17):
mistakes were thinking I wouldn't get the job, but I
think it's they felt my passion for it, and so
I got the job.
Speaker 1 (06:24):
What was it about Rita that spoke to you for
all these years?
Speaker 2 (06:28):
You know? I think Martha's are really interesting. I really
feel like they are not unlike a lot of black
women in this world in which we are asked to
be seen and not heard or people of service. In
the book, Rita is not a woman of color. But
I just felt such a kinship with her, and she's
(06:49):
quite mysterious, and I made up all sorts of backstories
for her even before this became a television show. I
just felt like she was a kindred spirit.
Speaker 1 (06:58):
Wow. And yes, the Martha's due take on this other role.
They're not the ones that are providing children, and yet
they're having to provide everything for the family and almost
be of service to the Handmaid's Tale. Sorry, the Handmaids
as well. You know from what I've I have not
read the book, but obviously I've watched every single episode
(07:20):
of every single season of Handmaid's Tale, and the Martha's
kind of have to do it all. They are the
unsung heroes in the story.
Speaker 2 (07:29):
Absolutely, that's what I call myself, especially for this season.
It's I've always thought of her as the secret weapon
or sort of the silent unsung hero, providing emotional support,
providing sometimes physical support, and the many times she has
helped June escape, although June keeps coming back. Yeah, they
(07:53):
are the women who fight without weapons who women like
that are always the most interesting to me. They have
a very very large impact with a very small sort
of verbal bite. They don't make a lot of noise,
but they make they influence the world greatly.
Speaker 1 (08:12):
Wow. That's that's incredible and such a good way to
put it. So this is the final season, how do
you feel about that. Are you ready to move on?
Are you ready to you think it was time for
(08:35):
it to be over?
Speaker 2 (08:36):
Absolutely, I mean I want to say, and I don't
want to all for it to be mistaken. I said,
I want to get the heck out of here. But
like it's almost been ten years amy, and you know,
in television we don't get that, Like it's I feel
so lucky to have been a part of something for
almost a decade. All of us have changed, We've been
through like personally, marriages, children, divorce separately outside of our characters,
(09:03):
we have navigated life together for almost a decade. So
to have that and to grow with these people who
I love, I feel so lucky. But also the fact
that we get to end the story on our terms,
Like it's not like something for two years we loved
and suddenly the chord was yanked and it was we
had to finish the show. So it feels like the
perfect ending that we can control and that we've taken
(09:25):
everything that we can and now it's time to move on.
And we're all quite frankly, just thrilled, thrilled that we
got the chance and thrilled to move on.
Speaker 1 (09:33):
I love hearing that It makes me feel better being
over knowing that you all are also like you're like,
you know, it's good. It served its purpose, but now
there are other projects and other things to do. How
would you describe this season compared to the others? I know,
I said, and certainly anyone who loves the show wouldn't
want to know anything about what's coming, But how would
(09:55):
you describe this season compared to the others?
Speaker 2 (09:58):
You know? I think to me, the season the moment
I started really reading it and getting into the scripts.
It's a love letter for fans. It is to me.
It unfolds in all of the ways that fans have
been wanting it to unfold. Passion. There is such an
inertia towards a sort of a rebellion, and I know
(10:21):
there are Handmaids has twists and turns, but there really
is so much more action, and the action pays off
without soiling it in a way that fans have been
wanting it, been needing it to. And so I really
feel like it's the season for the fans, and people
can come back to me and question me afterwards, but
I promise it's going to pay off.
Speaker 1 (10:43):
That is very exciting. I love hearing that did you
have a favorite episode in this stretch in this season?
Speaker 2 (10:51):
Yeah, oh so many, Amy, Yes, Yes, I have to.
I have too.
Speaker 1 (10:58):
I have you have said it.
Speaker 2 (11:00):
I have two. I have the there Oh gosh, I've
almost spoiled it. I have the second to last and
then the last. There's just it's like the everything falls
apart and then hopefully it comes back together. And those
are my favorites.
Speaker 1 (11:18):
That is very exciting because there's something to wait for,
right The second to last and the last episode are
the big payoffs, and they were your favorites. All right,
that's exciting. That makes me even more anticipatory of Tuesdays,
like Tuesday Nights. How difficult is it? I mean it
sounds like you're feeling really good about everything and you're
excited about new projects and all of that. But is
(11:39):
it hard? Was it hard to say goodbye to Rita?
Speaker 2 (11:44):
Yes? And no. I mean it was on the last day, luckily,
and this is not spoiling anything. On the last day,
I wasn't by myself. I had other cast mates with me,
and I had had the pleasure of wrapping out and
out aunt Lydia, I saw Ot and so I had
had the pleasure of sort of being able to be
there with my people and say goodbye to them as well.
(12:05):
So when it was my turn, it didn't feel strange.
It just felt we were all just slowly, one after one,
jumping off the cliff and saying goodbye. And so that
was that was It was sad because it was it's
you take for granted that I just don't get to
do this every year. So that was that was sad.
But Rita is so much a part of me now
(12:25):
that I feel like if I miss her without sounding insane,
I can just I can just talk to her like
she's with me, And so I don't feel like I
feel like I've become so close to her and my
relationship with her before. I feel like I just always
have her with me, which I love so much, so
that I have to be careful not to have her
(12:48):
sort of sneak out into other performances. I'm in another
television show right now, currently working on the second season
of Dark Matter at an Apple show, and I played
Jennifer Connolly's best friend. We were doing a scene the
other day and I kind of went back into just
instinctively went back into sort of a Rita like physical
stance and my mannerisms, and I had to be like, wait,
(13:11):
wrong universe, wrong show, wrong person, And so that's something
I have to make sure I'm careful of. But she's
always with me.
Speaker 1 (13:18):
That makes a lot of sense. And Jennifer Connelly love her.
We ran the New York City Marathon with her. She
is a blast. She killed it, by the way. She
was amazing in that marathon. She just it was her
first one. She got up and she blew past me.
She was rocking it.
Speaker 2 (13:35):
She's amazing. I feel this is another thing that I
feel so lucky, and this is why I'm excited, not
excited to leave, but excited to go off and do
other things. I feel so lucky in my career at
you know, forty eight years old, that I get to
meet and experience friendships and like a deep relationship with
all of these phenomenal women and out Elizabeth Moss, Jennifer Connelly,
(13:57):
Alici Braga who's also in Dark Matter. It's been such
a treat to get to know her because she really
is a force.
Speaker 1 (14:07):
I love hearing women also just rally, and that's part
of what Handmaid's Tale is all about, just seeing that
female sisterhood. You know, we talk so much about how
we pit each other, pit ourselves against one another, and
cat bit's not. It's so awesome when you hear genuine
stories about just genuine people supporting one another and making
brilliant art together. I love hearing about that, and we
(14:29):
need to hear more about that. I'm I'm curious about
you take on such heavy topics. I mean, there is
a lot of death, there is rape, there is I mean,
you name it. You guys have portrayed it and acted
through it and done so brilliantly. But what is it
(14:49):
like in the breaks when you're dealing with such heavy,
heavy material, Like I'm just wondering on this set, you
don't want to necessarily break out of character or get
out of that mood. But I'm just curious how you
hand and navigated through all of that darkness with so
many awesome bright lights of beautiful women and actors and
actresses there on the set.
Speaker 2 (15:08):
You know, you said it perfectly. I think because specifically
the casts are all such bright, warm lights because we
do trust one another and have such good relationships. But
also each individual personality is so funny. The actors on
the show are the funniest some of the funniest people
I've worked with, and I've traditionally had worked on comedies
before Handmaids that those moments that you're talking about in
(15:32):
between the takes were sometimes so light, so funny, so
filled with levity and laughter that we had to remind
ourselves that were on the set of The Handmaid's Tale.
Because we do get along, and because none of us
are really that hard core into method, we would almost
(15:52):
use those breaks as moments to lift one another up
through laughter, through humor, and then because we know the
characters so well, it was an easier transition to slide
back in. But I will say they are the happiest,
lightest moments that I've ever had on a set. We're
on the set of The Handmaid's Tail, which is so strange.
Speaker 1 (16:11):
I get it, though you have to let the air out.
I can only relate in a little bit just as
a journalist when we are at worst case scenarios. You know,
terror attacks, school shootings, all of that, and you've got
all of us together that we know the different stations
and different folks, but you're on the scene of this
horrible tragedy, and yet somehow you got to take a
break from it. You got to be able to go
(16:33):
to lunch and decompressed. You got to be able to
have a beer and have a laugh or something, because
you can't live in that darkness the whole time. So
that actually makes sense to have that relief, for that release,
to then go back into some very dark but important
subject matter. That makes a whole lot of sense for me.
How did it feel, Obviously you all had to have
talked about you were as you were doing the show,
(16:54):
and you've been acting it in the middle of a
lot of political upheal here in this country. How did
it feel to maneuver through what was happening in this
country versus specifically, you know, even Roe v. Wade being overturned,
those sorts of things where women genuinely, legitimately feel fear
that somehow they're not going to have control over their
own health. How did you navigate that as an actress
(17:16):
and as a person, as a woman.
Speaker 2 (17:19):
Well, you know, at the beginning, it felt, I don't
want to say surreal, but because I feel like that's
sort of downplaying it, but it was sort of surreal.
It was something that was strange at the time, but
it wasn't as serious. We had no idea this was.
We started filming this in twenty sixteen, we had no
inkling of where we were headed, and so we would
comment on how strange it was or how odd it
(17:42):
felt that there was still a bit of a separation.
As the years went by, and as we got closer
and closer to the narrative of the story being the
narrative of our real lives, that's when conversations started to
turn a lot more serious. We felt a considerable amount
of pressure to ensure that we tell the stories accurately,
(18:05):
but also separately in our personal lives, a considerable amount
of pressure to become just more politically outspoken. Not to
say that I wasn't proud. I didn't even really like
the word feminist, because I just feel like that's just
the idea of being a woman, but just not. I
was quite verbal in my beliefs before, but suddenly as
the seasons went by, I feel and have felt a
(18:27):
responsibility to speak out against oppression of women, to speak
out against things that I thought were getting out of control.
I'm Canadian, so in Canada especially a pressure to feel
just more politically outspoken.
Speaker 1 (18:42):
Yeah, I mean that makes a lot of sense. And
how did it play? I mean, did it affect you
at all? Being Canadian versus American? Did you feel like
you could say more because you were you were watching it,
you weren't maybe you weren't experiencing it, you weren't subject
to what was happening, but you could actually from an
objective point of view, almost being Canadian, and say things
maybe perhaps that even an American might be a little
(19:03):
worried about saying.
Speaker 2 (19:04):
Hesitant to say. I certainly did, but I also felt,
What's interesting, and no one's ever asked this, I felt,
and I still feel, quite protective over Americans. Half of
my cast are Americans. Were telling a show that takes
place in Boston, although it was written by a Canadian,
and I love America. I love Americans, and so I
felt a protectiveness when, particularly speaking to Canadian journals of
(19:31):
my American counterparts to sort of suggest that we can't
paint everyone with the same brush, and just feel a
very sense of protectiveness against America in general.
Speaker 1 (19:46):
Huh, that's very cool. And something else that's very cool.
You got this role, and I'd imagine this is one
of those roles for you, especially having written about written
her thesis about Rita is a dream role, a dream job.
(20:10):
You got it at the age of thirty seven? When
did you start acting and how did you like? Can
you give me an idea of how you got from
graduating from college to thirty seven landing the role of
a lifetime and for a woman that's not very typical.
You usually need to hit it hot early on or
you've aged out.
Speaker 2 (20:30):
Girl, girl, I know I'm good to do? Are you? Oh?
My us Amy tell it to the world. Holy well,
I uh well, then you probably know and can relate.
It's I had made peace with the fact that I
was doing okay in Canada, and peace with the fact
(20:53):
that I was just sort of going to be a
really hard, boots on the ground working actor and I
was happy doing that. It's a difficult job, and so
I was happy just being able to make ends meet
and make a life a living for myself. So suddenly
getting this and then it changing the course of my life,
changing everything about my life was sort of a miracle
(21:19):
and something that it took me a while to accept,
if that makes sense. It took me a while to
believe it, to settle into myself, to allow it to happen,
to allow myself permission to have success at a late age,
to allow myself permission to also enjoy that, to not
sort of apologize for it or shrink away. I earned it.
(21:39):
A lot changed for me. Right around the time I
got Handmaids, I got divorced, so I left a marriage
that wasn't working for me. I had two young children.
I was able to buy a home, and so suddenly
it felt like the life that's supposed to happen at
twenty two, the one that everyone tells you. You land
the job, get the house, and you start this crazy life.
(22:02):
I started it as my second chapter and it was
is has still been the most beautiful, wonderful journey that
I've gone on and that I'm the most proud of.
Because I'm older, I was older, so I was able
to navigate it.
Speaker 1 (22:15):
Differently, and that's incredibly inspirational for all of us women
who are, you know, older, we're not in our twenties.
It's a different feeling and a different perspective to get
a job like that later, or even having to start
over or to keep looking. But I think that's a
huge reminder to everybody that we shouldn't put limits on
(22:37):
ourselves and we in age is just a number, but
we do. I in my mind, I am like I
only have this many years, or I'm I'm not valuable anymore.
I don't have a market anymore. I can't do what
I love anymore because I'm too old. That is in
so many women's heads. It's certainly in mind. But I
love love seeing someone like you do what you've done
(22:58):
as brilliantly as you have, and to inspire other people
that it's never too late, and you never know. As
long as you work hard and you're prepared, you never
know what's down the pike. But you fought for it.
You fought for you went in there when you were
told you weren't going to get it, when you told hey,
this is just a let's have some fun. But you
knew this role. You knew this character, you knew the story,
(23:20):
and that passion paid off.
Speaker 2 (23:22):
Thank you. I knew if there was going to be
any chance to get anything, it was going to be
this role, so I did kind of. I'll tell you.
I was looking around and a lot of my friends
who will listen to this were in the room with me.
But in my head, I wanted to say to them,
go home, go home. This is that I'm not like
that at all. Is an ask I always mine, you know,
(23:42):
if the role will come and if it's meant to be,
it's meant to be. I was like, go home, I will,
I'll pay your parking for you. It's not yours, it's
not your time. It's the only time I done. I
know we have to do that. But back to your point,
I still do. I still I find myself doing that.
I find myself talking out of plans that i've you know,
(24:04):
I'm making for the future, of thinking oh I'm too
old and oh I don't have the time. But the
thing that helps me is I feel a sense of
responsibility for the women coming up to sort of rewrite
the narrative so they don't put those limits on themselves.
I feel like we I had at least a couple
women sort of whisper in my ear and say, don't
believe that, don't buy into that crap. And so I feel,
now being forty eight, a sense of responsibility to turn
(24:26):
around to the people coming up behind me saying, oh gosh,
don't do that, and if I can, I did it,
you do it. I still have twenty five more years
to rediscover myself and then then I'll discuss. But right now,
you and I we have time, plenty of time.
Speaker 1 (24:41):
Yes, yes, And I just love reminding other women and
myself of that as much as possible. So you mentioned
you are. What's that behind you? By the way, for
people who can't see, if people are just listening, You've
got a chalkboard behind you with how many here? And
I see a numerical fraction behind you? Can you can tell?
Speaker 2 (25:02):
I'm sorry, I'm so distracted to you. We are currently
teaching my youngest son fractions. It's actually my partner who's
doing it. I don't know fractions. Math was not my specialty.
It was literature and English, and so this is our
h this is our breakfast area, and so we just
we eat breakfast and learn fractions. I'm joining class too,
(25:23):
I'm learning fractions. Well, so that's what we do.
Speaker 1 (25:26):
I love it. I love it. So tell me about
the show you're on now again, Dark Matter, and what
else you have brewing right now in your booming career
at the age of forty eight.
Speaker 2 (25:37):
Thank you well. Dark Matter it's the second season of
an Apple show, also based on a book I think
that's just now my destiny. I'm just going to go
from places to places and sort of make books into
art that are already art, into moving art. It is
oh my gosh, how do I talk about dark matter? Essentially,
it's a world based on the idea that if we
(26:00):
were to go into different universes but as the same person,
but different different timelines, who would we be? Who would
we meet? Would we have the same people in our lives?
Would we have the same relationships someone you've always had
a crush on. Maybe that's your husband in one world,
and in another world it could be a person just
(26:21):
passing you on the street. So it's just really examining
relationships just in different timelines, which is the best I
can describe it, Jiel. That's very cool, Yeah, Jennifer Connolly.
It did really well the first season, and now this
season I'm a regular because I have time to do it,
and so it's we have a lot of things brewing
(26:43):
this season. It's really exciting.
Speaker 1 (26:45):
I'm one hundred percent going to be checking that out.
What is your character and how does she play? What
does she do?
Speaker 2 (26:51):
Then I play my characters. I play Jennifer Connelly like
as I said her best friend Blair. But I'm a scientist,
one of the scientists that created this machine in which
you were able to travel between timelines and without spoiling it.
I'm one of many Blairs, and so there are different
(27:13):
versions of me, which is so cool.
Speaker 1 (27:16):
That's amazing, I.
Speaker 2 (27:17):
Know, especially as an actor playing the same role for
ten years. I love her. I love Rita, but to
now be able to play someone new and play different
versions of her is sort of like the best way
to sort of say goodbye to one character and enjoy
another one.
Speaker 1 (27:35):
Say hello to ten Blairs or whatever. But that's amazing.
I love that, you know, Amanda, I really appreciate you
speaking with me and talking all things Handmaid's Tale, and
just I love learning about I did not know that
the story about how you auditioned, and that's just it's
so inspiring to see women a pursuing things they love,
(27:59):
not giving up, not listening to the noise, and forging
your own path. You are an inspiration and you are
paving the way. So thank you for all that you do.
I cannot obviously, I'm watching all of Handmaid's Tale and
then I'm moving on to Dark Matter. So it was
a pleasure talking to you today. Thank you so much
for being on the podcast.
Speaker 2 (28:20):
Oh you're welcome. Thank you for having me
Welcome to Amy and TJ. And we are very excited
about this edition of our podcast because it is season six,
the final season of Handmaid's Tale. Every woman I know
is obsessed with it. We have discussions about each episode
after they're over, and Wow, this season has already begun
(00:23):
with a bang. But I want to make sure everyone
knows who's listening. We are not going to give away
any spoilers in case you haven't started the new season yet,
but the first three episodes dropped on April eighth, and
then there are new episodes that roll out every Tuesday.
So this is exciting. It only gets sad when they're
all gone. So we still have so many more to
consume and so many plot lines to follow. And we're
(00:45):
going to assume that if you're already listening to this episode,
you're likely a fan of Handmaid's Tale. But if you
don't know it's premise, let me give you just a
quick synopsis. The series is set in a fictional community
we can call it that called Gilead. It's a society
that has basically taken over the United States after an
(01:05):
environmental disaster has left most women unable to have children,
so it takes the few remaining fertile women and forces
them into sexual servitude to have children for childless couples. Essentially,
women are property of Gilead. And we have one of
the stars from Handmaid's Tale with us. She plays Rita,
(01:26):
who at the beginning of the series plays a Martha,
which is basically a maid or a domestic worker for
these Gilead families. And she is the Martha for a
very prominent Gilead family. And I want to say here
that TJ wanted to be with us on this podcast,
but he's feeling a bit under the weather, so he
sends his regards because he was very excited as well
(01:48):
to be talking to the one and only Amanda Brugal.
So Amanda, thank you for coming on the podcast, and
thank you for talking with us. I'm so excited to
have you on.
Speaker 2 (01:58):
You're welcome. I'm so excited to meet you and to
discuss all that is Handmaids.
Speaker 1 (02:04):
Wow. I mean, do you have these same conversations with
your girlfriends even though you know what's coming and you
know what's about to happen. Do you still find yourself
having debriefs with the women in your life.
Speaker 2 (02:14):
Yeah? I know, not really. I mean, I think because
they're with me throughout it. It's got every week, they
were together almost every day, so they know what's coming up.
What I do love is having conversations with complete strangers
on the street, Like it's the one thing I found
in my life, the one job that suddenly all sort
(02:37):
of weird social contracts are out the window and suddenly
I'm hugging people in the street or bonding or telling
really intimate stories with complete strangers. And it's the thing
I love about art, but specifically this show. It just
just throws all of the formalities to decide and we're hugging.
I love it.
Speaker 1 (02:57):
You know what? That is so interesting? That makes so
much sense because this is a show that touches on
so many I would say, deep seated fears or maybe
not that deep seated among women about our role in society,
and especially given today's political climate, perhaps even more so
over the last several years, certainly since Handmaid's Tale has
(03:20):
come out, there have been so many eerily similar things happening,
parallel things happening in politics that I think the show
even probably had more significance and more prominence than ever
before because all of a sudden women are thinking, my god,
could that happen here? Or are we on a path
(03:41):
where that could one day in the future happen. What
do people say to you when they come up to you.
Speaker 2 (03:46):
I mean people ask me how It's almost like they
want my advice, like will this happen? Is it close?
What should I do? And so I have to sort
of feel like sometimes a therapist to sort of say
to them that were, although it seems close, we're not
quite there yet. I too, am just as afraid. I
(04:09):
don't really have any secrets of how to navigate fictitious gilliad.
A lot of people talk to me about watching it
with their children, not children, but the sort of teen daughters,
how to navigate conversations with them, and just really people
looking ultimately for my advice and how to navigate gilliad,
How to navigate if this were to happen, and then
(04:31):
what would I do?
Speaker 1 (04:33):
That is wild. I did not expect you to say that,
But then when you say it, I guess it makes sense.
But were you prepared for any of that?
Speaker 2 (04:40):
No, not at all. I mean I did. What's interesting
about the book is that I'm Canadian, and so I
read the book when I was fifteen, was obsessed with
the book. In love with the book. I wrote my
thesis on it to get into university. I didn't know
if I was waiting to stop children a writer. Yeah,
I didn't know an actor or writer. And to get
(05:01):
into the writing program, I chose the Handmaid's Tale. I
chose to write it on the book, but I chose
to write it on Rita.
Speaker 1 (05:07):
This was in Night You've got to be kidding me No.
Nineteen ninety six, nineteen ninety six, and so Rita has
been with me for a long time.
Speaker 2 (05:14):
So I do feel a little bit like a Handmaid's
Tale expert, but not so much so where I can
help others navigate their lives.
Speaker 1 (05:23):
That is such a full circle moment, crazy. Can you
take me back to the moment when you first auditioned
and were you auditioning specifically for this role that you
wrote your thesis around.
Speaker 2 (05:35):
I was, well, you know, the casting director in Canada,
I talked so much about the book. It's like I
had shares, like I was trying to push the book
on people, had copies in my pocket. The Canadian casting
director knew for years how much I loved the book,
and she said, oh, the book that you like, I
I'm casting for it, and she said, I'm not. I'm
(05:55):
going to bring you in so you can speak the lines.
You're not going to get it. It's going to go
to an American, but just just so you can come
in and audition. And so that first audition I was
there and Bruce Miller, our showrunner, and Read Morano, our
director who started this whole ball rolling, were there and
we just talked openly about the book, and I gave
my advice and how I thought what I thought some
(06:17):
mistakes were thinking I wouldn't get the job, but I
think it's they felt my passion for it, and so
I got the job.
Speaker 1 (06:24):
What was it about Rita that spoke to you for
all these years?
Speaker 2 (06:28):
You know? I think Martha's are really interesting. I really
feel like they are not unlike a lot of black
women in this world in which we are asked to
be seen and not heard or people of service. In
the book, Rita is not a woman of color. But
I just felt such a kinship with her, and she's
(06:49):
quite mysterious, and I made up all sorts of backstories
for her even before this became a television show. I
just felt like she was a kindred spirit.
Speaker 1 (06:58):
Wow. And yes, the Martha's due take on this other role.
They're not the ones that are providing children, and yet
they're having to provide everything for the family and almost
be of service to the Handmaid's Tale. Sorry, the Handmaids
as well. You know from what I've I have not
read the book, but obviously I've watched every single episode
(07:20):
of every single season of Handmaid's Tale, and the Martha's
kind of have to do it all. They are the
unsung heroes in the story.
Speaker 2 (07:29):
Absolutely, that's what I call myself, especially for this season.
It's I've always thought of her as the secret weapon
or sort of the silent unsung hero, providing emotional support,
providing sometimes physical support, and the many times she has
helped June escape, although June keeps coming back. Yeah, they
(07:53):
are the women who fight without weapons who women like
that are always the most interesting to me. They have
a very very large impact with a very small sort
of verbal bite. They don't make a lot of noise,
but they make they influence the world greatly.
Speaker 1 (08:12):
Wow. That's that's incredible and such a good way to
put it. So this is the final season, how do
you feel about that. Are you ready to move on?
Are you ready to you think it was time for
(08:35):
it to be over?
Speaker 2 (08:36):
Absolutely, I mean I want to say, and I don't
want to all for it to be mistaken. I said,
I want to get the heck out of here. But
like it's almost been ten years amy, and you know,
in television we don't get that, Like it's I feel
so lucky to have been a part of something for
almost a decade. All of us have changed, We've been
through like personally, marriages, children, divorce separately outside of our characters,
(09:03):
we have navigated life together for almost a decade. So
to have that and to grow with these people who
I love, I feel so lucky. But also the fact
that we get to end the story on our terms,
Like it's not like something for two years we loved
and suddenly the chord was yanked and it was we
had to finish the show. So it feels like the
perfect ending that we can control and that we've taken
(09:25):
everything that we can and now it's time to move on.
And we're all quite frankly, just thrilled, thrilled that we
got the chance and thrilled to move on.
Speaker 1 (09:33):
I love hearing that It makes me feel better being
over knowing that you all are also like you're like,
you know, it's good. It served its purpose, but now
there are other projects and other things to do. How
would you describe this season compared to the others? I know,
I said, and certainly anyone who loves the show wouldn't
want to know anything about what's coming, But how would
(09:55):
you describe this season compared to the others?
Speaker 2 (09:58):
You know? I think to me, the season the moment
I started really reading it and getting into the scripts.
It's a love letter for fans. It is to me.
It unfolds in all of the ways that fans have
been wanting it to unfold. Passion. There is such an
inertia towards a sort of a rebellion, and I know
(10:21):
there are Handmaids has twists and turns, but there really
is so much more action, and the action pays off
without soiling it in a way that fans have been
wanting it, been needing it to. And so I really
feel like it's the season for the fans, and people
can come back to me and question me afterwards, but
I promise it's going to pay off.
Speaker 1 (10:43):
That is very exciting. I love hearing that did you
have a favorite episode in this stretch in this season?
Speaker 2 (10:51):
Yeah, oh so many, Amy, Yes, Yes, I have to.
I have too.
Speaker 1 (10:58):
I have you have said it.
Speaker 2 (11:00):
I have two. I have the there Oh gosh, I've
almost spoiled it. I have the second to last and
then the last. There's just it's like the everything falls
apart and then hopefully it comes back together. And those
are my favorites.
Speaker 1 (11:18):
That is very exciting because there's something to wait for,
right The second to last and the last episode are
the big payoffs, and they were your favorites. All right,
that's exciting. That makes me even more anticipatory of Tuesdays,
like Tuesday Nights. How difficult is it? I mean it
sounds like you're feeling really good about everything and you're
excited about new projects and all of that. But is
(11:39):
it hard? Was it hard to say goodbye to Rita?
Speaker 2 (11:44):
Yes? And no. I mean it was on the last day, luckily,
and this is not spoiling anything. On the last day,
I wasn't by myself. I had other cast mates with me,
and I had had the pleasure of wrapping out and
out aunt Lydia, I saw Ot and so I had
had the pleasure of sort of being able to be
there with my people and say goodbye to them as well.
(12:05):
So when it was my turn, it didn't feel strange.
It just felt we were all just slowly, one after one,
jumping off the cliff and saying goodbye. And so that
was that was It was sad because it was it's
you take for granted that I just don't get to
do this every year. So that was that was sad.
But Rita is so much a part of me now
(12:25):
that I feel like if I miss her without sounding insane,
I can just I can just talk to her like
she's with me, And so I don't feel like I
feel like I've become so close to her and my
relationship with her before. I feel like I just always
have her with me, which I love so much, so
that I have to be careful not to have her
(12:48):
sort of sneak out into other performances. I'm in another
television show right now, currently working on the second season
of Dark Matter at an Apple show, and I played
Jennifer Connolly's best friend. We were doing a scene the
other day and I kind of went back into just
instinctively went back into sort of a Rita like physical
stance and my mannerisms, and I had to be like, wait,
(13:11):
wrong universe, wrong show, wrong person, And so that's something
I have to make sure I'm careful of. But she's
always with me.
Speaker 1 (13:18):
That makes a lot of sense. And Jennifer Connelly love her.
We ran the New York City Marathon with her. She
is a blast. She killed it, by the way. She
was amazing in that marathon. She just it was her
first one. She got up and she blew past me.
She was rocking it.
Speaker 2 (13:35):
She's amazing. I feel this is another thing that I
feel so lucky, and this is why I'm excited, not
excited to leave, but excited to go off and do
other things. I feel so lucky in my career at
you know, forty eight years old, that I get to
meet and experience friendships and like a deep relationship with
all of these phenomenal women and out Elizabeth Moss, Jennifer Connelly,
(13:57):
Alici Braga who's also in Dark Matter. It's been such
a treat to get to know her because she really
is a force.
Speaker 1 (14:07):
I love hearing women also just rally, and that's part
of what Handmaid's Tale is all about, just seeing that
female sisterhood. You know, we talk so much about how
we pit each other, pit ourselves against one another, and
cat bit's not. It's so awesome when you hear genuine
stories about just genuine people supporting one another and making
brilliant art together. I love hearing about that, and we
(14:29):
need to hear more about that. I'm I'm curious about
you take on such heavy topics. I mean, there is
a lot of death, there is rape, there is I mean,
you name it. You guys have portrayed it and acted
through it and done so brilliantly. But what is it
(14:49):
like in the breaks when you're dealing with such heavy,
heavy material, Like I'm just wondering on this set, you
don't want to necessarily break out of character or get
out of that mood. But I'm just curious how you
hand and navigated through all of that darkness with so
many awesome bright lights of beautiful women and actors and
actresses there on the set.
Speaker 2 (15:08):
You know, you said it perfectly. I think because specifically
the casts are all such bright, warm lights because we
do trust one another and have such good relationships. But
also each individual personality is so funny. The actors on
the show are the funniest some of the funniest people
I've worked with, and I've traditionally had worked on comedies
before Handmaids that those moments that you're talking about in
(15:32):
between the takes were sometimes so light, so funny, so
filled with levity and laughter that we had to remind
ourselves that were on the set of The Handmaid's Tale.
Because we do get along, and because none of us
are really that hard core into method, we would almost
(15:52):
use those breaks as moments to lift one another up
through laughter, through humor, and then because we know the
characters so well, it was an easier transition to slide
back in. But I will say they are the happiest,
lightest moments that I've ever had on a set. We're
on the set of The Handmaid's Tail, which is so strange.
Speaker 1 (16:11):
I get it, though you have to let the air out.
I can only relate in a little bit just as
a journalist when we are at worst case scenarios. You know,
terror attacks, school shootings, all of that, and you've got
all of us together that we know the different stations
and different folks, but you're on the scene of this
horrible tragedy, and yet somehow you got to take a
break from it. You got to be able to go
(16:33):
to lunch and decompressed. You got to be able to
have a beer and have a laugh or something, because
you can't live in that darkness the whole time. So
that actually makes sense to have that relief, for that release,
to then go back into some very dark but important
subject matter. That makes a whole lot of sense for me.
How did it feel, Obviously you all had to have
talked about you were as you were doing the show,
(16:54):
and you've been acting it in the middle of a
lot of political upheal here in this country. How did
it feel to maneuver through what was happening in this
country versus specifically, you know, even Roe v. Wade being overturned,
those sorts of things where women genuinely, legitimately feel fear
that somehow they're not going to have control over their
own health. How did you navigate that as an actress
(17:16):
and as a person, as a woman.
Speaker 2 (17:19):
Well, you know, at the beginning, it felt, I don't
want to say surreal, but because I feel like that's
sort of downplaying it, but it was sort of surreal.
It was something that was strange at the time, but
it wasn't as serious. We had no idea this was.
We started filming this in twenty sixteen, we had no
inkling of where we were headed, and so we would
comment on how strange it was or how odd it
(17:42):
felt that there was still a bit of a separation.
As the years went by, and as we got closer
and closer to the narrative of the story being the
narrative of our real lives, that's when conversations started to
turn a lot more serious. We felt a considerable amount
of pressure to ensure that we tell the stories accurately,
(18:05):
but also separately in our personal lives, a considerable amount
of pressure to become just more politically outspoken. Not to
say that I wasn't proud. I didn't even really like
the word feminist, because I just feel like that's just
the idea of being a woman, but just not. I
was quite verbal in my beliefs before, but suddenly as
the seasons went by, I feel and have felt a
(18:27):
responsibility to speak out against oppression of women, to speak
out against things that I thought were getting out of control.
I'm Canadian, so in Canada especially a pressure to feel
just more politically outspoken.
Speaker 1 (18:42):
Yeah, I mean that makes a lot of sense. And
how did it play? I mean, did it affect you
at all? Being Canadian versus American? Did you feel like
you could say more because you were you were watching it,
you weren't maybe you weren't experiencing it, you weren't subject
to what was happening, but you could actually from an
objective point of view, almost being Canadian, and say things
maybe perhaps that even an American might be a little
(19:03):
worried about saying.
Speaker 2 (19:04):
Hesitant to say. I certainly did, but I also felt,
What's interesting, and no one's ever asked this, I felt,
and I still feel, quite protective over Americans. Half of
my cast are Americans. Were telling a show that takes
place in Boston, although it was written by a Canadian,
and I love America. I love Americans, and so I
felt a protectiveness when, particularly speaking to Canadian journals of
(19:31):
my American counterparts to sort of suggest that we can't
paint everyone with the same brush, and just feel a
very sense of protectiveness against America in general.
Speaker 1 (19:46):
Huh, that's very cool. And something else that's very cool.
You got this role, and I'd imagine this is one
of those roles for you, especially having written about written
her thesis about Rita is a dream role, a dream job.
(20:10):
You got it at the age of thirty seven? When
did you start acting and how did you like? Can
you give me an idea of how you got from
graduating from college to thirty seven landing the role of
a lifetime and for a woman that's not very typical.
You usually need to hit it hot early on or
you've aged out.
Speaker 2 (20:30):
Girl, girl, I know I'm good to do? Are you? Oh?
My us Amy tell it to the world. Holy well,
I uh well, then you probably know and can relate.
It's I had made peace with the fact that I
was doing okay in Canada, and peace with the fact
(20:53):
that I was just sort of going to be a
really hard, boots on the ground working actor and I
was happy doing that. It's a difficult job, and so
I was happy just being able to make ends meet
and make a life a living for myself. So suddenly
getting this and then it changing the course of my life,
changing everything about my life was sort of a miracle
(21:19):
and something that it took me a while to accept,
if that makes sense. It took me a while to
believe it, to settle into myself, to allow it to happen,
to allow myself permission to have success at a late age,
to allow myself permission to also enjoy that, to not
sort of apologize for it or shrink away. I earned it.
(21:39):
A lot changed for me. Right around the time I
got Handmaids, I got divorced, so I left a marriage
that wasn't working for me. I had two young children.
I was able to buy a home, and so suddenly
it felt like the life that's supposed to happen at
twenty two, the one that everyone tells you. You land
the job, get the house, and you start this crazy life.
(22:02):
I started it as my second chapter and it was
is has still been the most beautiful, wonderful journey that
I've gone on and that I'm the most proud of.
Because I'm older, I was older, so I was able
to navigate it.
Speaker 1 (22:15):
Differently, and that's incredibly inspirational for all of us women
who are, you know, older, we're not in our twenties.
It's a different feeling and a different perspective to get
a job like that later, or even having to start
over or to keep looking. But I think that's a
huge reminder to everybody that we shouldn't put limits on
(22:37):
ourselves and we in age is just a number, but
we do. I in my mind, I am like I
only have this many years, or I'm I'm not valuable anymore.
I don't have a market anymore. I can't do what
I love anymore because I'm too old. That is in
so many women's heads. It's certainly in mind. But I
love love seeing someone like you do what you've done
(22:58):
as brilliantly as you have, and to inspire other people
that it's never too late, and you never know. As
long as you work hard and you're prepared, you never
know what's down the pike. But you fought for it.
You fought for you went in there when you were
told you weren't going to get it, when you told hey,
this is just a let's have some fun. But you
knew this role. You knew this character, you knew the story,
(23:20):
and that passion paid off.
Speaker 2 (23:22):
Thank you. I knew if there was going to be
any chance to get anything, it was going to be
this role, so I did kind of. I'll tell you.
I was looking around and a lot of my friends
who will listen to this were in the room with me.
But in my head, I wanted to say to them,
go home, go home. This is that I'm not like
that at all. Is an ask I always mine, you know,
(23:42):
if the role will come and if it's meant to be,
it's meant to be. I was like, go home, I will,
I'll pay your parking for you. It's not yours, it's
not your time. It's the only time I done. I
know we have to do that. But back to your point,
I still do. I still I find myself doing that.
I find myself talking out of plans that i've you know,
(24:04):
I'm making for the future, of thinking oh I'm too
old and oh I don't have the time. But the
thing that helps me is I feel a sense of
responsibility for the women coming up to sort of rewrite
the narrative so they don't put those limits on themselves.
I feel like we I had at least a couple
women sort of whisper in my ear and say, don't
believe that, don't buy into that crap. And so I feel,
now being forty eight, a sense of responsibility to turn
(24:26):
around to the people coming up behind me saying, oh gosh,
don't do that, and if I can, I did it,
you do it. I still have twenty five more years
to rediscover myself and then then I'll discuss. But right now,
you and I we have time, plenty of time.
Speaker 1 (24:41):
Yes, yes, And I just love reminding other women and
myself of that as much as possible. So you mentioned
you are. What's that behind you? By the way, for
people who can't see, if people are just listening, You've
got a chalkboard behind you with how many here? And
I see a numerical fraction behind you? Can you can tell?
Speaker 2 (25:02):
I'm sorry, I'm so distracted to you. We are currently
teaching my youngest son fractions. It's actually my partner who's
doing it. I don't know fractions. Math was not my specialty.
It was literature and English, and so this is our
h this is our breakfast area, and so we just
we eat breakfast and learn fractions. I'm joining class too,
(25:23):
I'm learning fractions. Well, so that's what we do.
Speaker 1 (25:26):
I love it. I love it. So tell me about
the show you're on now again, Dark Matter, and what
else you have brewing right now in your booming career
at the age of forty eight.
Speaker 2 (25:37):
Thank you well. Dark Matter it's the second season of
an Apple show, also based on a book I think
that's just now my destiny. I'm just going to go
from places to places and sort of make books into
art that are already art, into moving art. It is
oh my gosh, how do I talk about dark matter? Essentially,
it's a world based on the idea that if we
(26:00):
were to go into different universes but as the same person,
but different different timelines, who would we be? Who would
we meet? Would we have the same people in our lives?
Would we have the same relationships someone you've always had
a crush on. Maybe that's your husband in one world,
and in another world it could be a person just
(26:21):
passing you on the street. So it's just really examining
relationships just in different timelines, which is the best I
can describe it, Jiel. That's very cool, Yeah, Jennifer Connolly.
It did really well the first season, and now this
season I'm a regular because I have time to do it,
and so it's we have a lot of things brewing
(26:43):
this season. It's really exciting.
Speaker 1 (26:45):
I'm one hundred percent going to be checking that out.
What is your character and how does she play? What
does she do?
Speaker 2 (26:51):
Then I play my characters. I play Jennifer Connelly like
as I said her best friend Blair. But I'm a scientist,
one of the scientists that created this machine in which
you were able to travel between timelines and without spoiling it.
I'm one of many Blairs, and so there are different
(27:13):
versions of me, which is so cool.
Speaker 1 (27:16):
That's amazing, I.
Speaker 2 (27:17):
Know, especially as an actor playing the same role for
ten years. I love her. I love Rita, but to
now be able to play someone new and play different
versions of her is sort of like the best way
to sort of say goodbye to one character and enjoy
another one.
Speaker 1 (27:35):
Say hello to ten Blairs or whatever. But that's amazing.
I love that, you know, Amanda, I really appreciate you
speaking with me and talking all things Handmaid's Tale, and
just I love learning about I did not know that
the story about how you auditioned, and that's just it's
so inspiring to see women a pursuing things they love,
(27:59):
not giving up, not listening to the noise, and forging
your own path. You are an inspiration and you are
paving the way. So thank you for all that you do.
I cannot obviously, I'm watching all of Handmaid's Tale and
then I'm moving on to Dark Matter. So it was
a pleasure talking to you today. Thank you so much
for being on the podcast.
Speaker 2 (28:20):
Oh you're welcome. Thank you for having me
Hosts And Creators
Lauren Zima
Chris Harrison
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