October 23, 2023 • 29 mins
Former DWTS pro Cheryl Burke is telling Chris basically too much…
Has she turned on the franchise?
Cheryl confronts Chris about a rumor that he blocked her from becoming the bachelorette.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
This is the most dramatic podcast ever and iHeartRadio podcast Cherlbert.
Can we start the show?
Speaker 2 (00:08):
Sure?
Speaker 1 (00:09):
Can we start the most dramatic podcast? Oh my god,
we are on the road.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
That name up?
Speaker 1 (00:15):
Actually, I did not make the name up, Amy Sugarman.
One of our producers made that name up.
Speaker 2 (00:19):
It's almost as long as sex, Lies and Spray Tans.
And yes, I just dropped my own podcast.
Speaker 1 (00:23):
We are less than a minute. I know this, And
you just dropped the name of your podcast on top
of my podcast. Okay, Sex Lies and spray Tans. Yes,
that's the podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:32):
I definitely don't have one right now, Noli Tan. I'm
not going to show you because it's embarrassing. My laser transparent.
I look like Casper the Friendly Ghosts.
Speaker 1 (00:43):
You look like an iPhone on in the dark.
Speaker 2 (00:45):
Like Tom.
Speaker 1 (00:47):
Tom, Tom, don't don't mess with Pasty Tom Burser good.
I love Tommy. You love Tom?
Speaker 2 (00:53):
Yes, and he loves you. We just interviewed I just
interviewed him, so you did.
Speaker 1 (00:56):
Yeah, he was so funny. He was I know if
I told you that story like he we were kind
of the two hosts at ABC. He's obviously tenured and
had been there a lot longer, and I was he
had done Miss America. I was taking over Miss America
the next year. I hadn't met Tom and I met
him at this Disney thing. Remember back in the day
we used to do Primetime twenty three. Yeah, we used
(01:18):
to go down into Primetime Disney previews and we'd go down.
Speaker 2 (01:20):
To dance a little yeah, good free guide. You know.
Speaker 1 (01:23):
It was so fun back in the day. We'd be
down at Disney doing these events and it was, you know,
Dennis Franz, John Ritter, Belushi was there for made some
you know, goofy.
Speaker 2 (01:34):
According to Jail, I don't even know who you're saying
right now, that's how sheltered of a life that it was.
Speaker 1 (01:39):
I loved it. It was like it was we had
such good stars back then.
Speaker 2 (01:43):
No, we really did. I mean we also had free
the stars. We had guys like we didn't have to
wait in lines now there they refuse.
Speaker 1 (01:50):
They would give you the plaid jacket person who would
put you to the front. And I had kids, so
I had these little kids who had just born. Some
my kids were born into Disney. We would go to
Disney and yeah, oh so spoiled, and so the worst
part is the best part. These plaid jacket people take
you through the exit and then you walk right to
the front and you know of Magic Mountain or whatever
(02:12):
it is, Space Mountain, and you feel the glare of
the people on the other side of the turnstile who've
been waiting in line for an hour, and you just
teach your kids like, don't look, don't look directly at anybody,
don't look, just keep your heads down, feeling we're going
to get on the ride and we're just gonna pretend
like this never happened.
Speaker 2 (02:28):
Oh, that's the worst though.
Speaker 1 (02:29):
But I didn't feel so bad that I didn't take
advantage of it because multiple times, Yeah, we did Disney World.
I did Disney. I did a Disney cruise.
Speaker 2 (02:37):
Same. I got the hell out of that, though fast.
I was like, we stopped at Florida and I was like,
I'm not going, I'm not on boarding, I'm not a.
Speaker 1 (02:44):
And my son actually looked at me one day said Dad,
we're not cruisers. And he was young at the time,
and he's right, we're not cruisers yet You're right. As
I get older, I.
Speaker 3 (02:52):
Will be there cruising through a last and I'd be that.
Speaker 2 (02:55):
Girl dancing as part of the show, Lauren, look at
the salmon.
Speaker 1 (02:59):
They're running up the stream.
Speaker 2 (03:00):
Totally.
Speaker 1 (03:01):
I don't know why that's my voice when I get older,
but that's what's going to happen to me. This show
is turned into a train wreck already.
Speaker 2 (03:08):
That is my middle name. I'm kidding. I have to
be nice to myself, supposedly therapist.
Speaker 3 (03:14):
What year did you start dancing in general?
Speaker 2 (03:17):
No?
Speaker 1 (03:17):
No, Dancing with the Stars.
Speaker 2 (03:18):
Oh, two thousand and six, okay, season two? So I
twenty one, two thousand yes, yes, you were a baby.
Speaker 1 (03:27):
When I met you.
Speaker 2 (03:27):
I was twenty one, not a baby. I was legal.
More than legal. I was like I was able to drink.
There was a lot of underage you know.
Speaker 1 (03:36):
You know at the time on dancing they really weren't young,
and it's like you were as young as it got, right, Totally. Yeah,
it wasn't like they did. Weren't bringing in the child actors,
right or like the child pros dancing so much as
producers they prey on and use the sexuality so much.
That's such a huge part.
Speaker 2 (03:54):
It still Disney friendly.
Speaker 1 (03:55):
Why do you think that Dancing with the Stars was
ever Disney friendly? It's never been Disney because you haven't Disney.
Speaker 2 (04:01):
Can see inside people's organs. Yeah, when they do the
splits in those little tiny costumes, it's.
Speaker 1 (04:07):
Like, how how when I got rid of the Bachelor World.
It's something I've been a part of for twenty years.
So again, it's not positive or negative. It just is
what it is.
Speaker 2 (04:17):
Was the grieving process though there you do, it's you
go through. It was yours.
Speaker 1 (04:21):
It was difficult because mine was you know, obviously I
don't know if you heard it was a bit of
a show. It got a little traumatic, and it was
kind of public.
Speaker 2 (04:29):
Yeah, kind of kind of yep, considering I don't watch
TV and I still heard about it like that is
you know, you know that you're like huge.
Speaker 1 (04:36):
Then mine went very public. It got very nasty and
got litigious and contentious and all those things.
Speaker 2 (04:42):
But how did you like, was it a shock to
the system.
Speaker 1 (04:45):
It was a big traumatic experience. Because I've been doing
except for twenty years. I kind of thought I was
probably going to continue on for a little bit longer. Anyway,
I started to think about, okay, what's nexting and moving
away from the show, but it wasn't time yet.
Speaker 2 (05:01):
And many seasons did you do.
Speaker 1 (05:03):
I did. I don't know how many seasons. I'm terrible
about that. I did twenty years here you don't know. Well, actually,
here's the problem. I did nineteen and a half years.
I wanted to get to twenty. I was my thing
was when I get to twenty years, I'm probably going
to step away. I'll figure out what this is. But obviously,
you know, nobody gets to leave typically on their own accord.
Speaker 2 (05:24):
I mean I did.
Speaker 1 (05:25):
Speaking of Disney life, Life's not a Disney movie? Is
that how you left? Did you you decided to leave? No?
Speaker 2 (05:30):
I decided, Well, this is what I decided that I
no longer want to be a pro dancer. Okay, but
you know I also want.
Speaker 3 (05:38):
To evolve and be host or judge.
Speaker 2 (05:41):
Right, wouldn't that be natural? Like you would think, right,
one of the biggest I've been the longest, I've been there,
the longest.
Speaker 1 (05:46):
You're one of the biggest stars to have ever come
through that.
Speaker 2 (05:48):
Show, regardless of star. I mean, it's just like it's
hard for me to separate the business and the personal
because like, these people are my family, and yeah, but
they're not but they're not right. Yeah, But what's so
hard is that like they've seen me my most vulnerable right. So, God,
there's so much I want to say, but I just
the difficult thing is my mouth.
Speaker 1 (06:11):
You do when you when you work, and this is
not necessarily a knock on ABC or Disney or Warner
who I worked for, but partly what they want you
to do as an employee. And this is if I
own a big company, I would want you to feel
like you're a big of a big part, big happy family.
You're a part of that. You're replaceable that, yes, but yeah,
you don't get too comfortable because you're replaceable. But hey,
(06:32):
we want you to sacrifice everything. You wanted to walk
away from professional.
Speaker 2 (06:37):
Dancing because Okay, first of all, I've been saying it
for a while, but also like I just as an
artist honestly just looking at like my potential and wanting
to just grow. Like for me, this whole last year
or two years, you know, since my separation and divorce
and everything has been a huge growth growth in my life,
just like growing period where I just want to evolve
(07:00):
and I can't walk away from my marriage and then
walk away and not walk away from the show, because
it's it's all similar, right, it's all coming from the
same I guess need of wanting to evolve. And if
that's with you, great, If it's not, great, but I'm
moving on.
Speaker 1 (07:17):
And so I'm going to guess, well, you wanted to stay.
You wanted to stay.
Speaker 3 (07:22):
I wanted to stay a whole job title, yes, as
a host or judge.
Speaker 2 (07:26):
And they knew very much that I was wanting this
for many years.
Speaker 1 (07:29):
My guess, I'm going to go out on a limb
knowing the executives and especially the executive you were dealing with.
My guess, promises were.
Speaker 2 (07:37):
Made absolutely for many years.
Speaker 1 (07:39):
So promises were made to Cheryl Burke many times over.
I know they were made to you about the Bachelor
and Bachelorette and being on that show.
Speaker 2 (07:46):
You're still talking about it.
Speaker 1 (07:47):
Yeah, I know.
Speaker 2 (07:48):
So I'm heard you walk that. Did you not know?
Oh I thought you did that.
Speaker 1 (07:53):
They put that on me?
Speaker 2 (07:54):
Yeah, I think so.
Speaker 1 (07:55):
Yeah, Like I have that much power, someone said to you,
I have the power to decide to bachelor bache att.
Speaker 2 (08:00):
No, I think they blamed it on you.
Speaker 1 (08:01):
Absolutely, that's funny. But it's also the beast that we
work for, right Why it's Hollywood, it's this business. They
because they are just as scared. You know, everybody has
a boss and those people are scared to death, and
so it's just yeah, and so they look. They love
being around the talent, they love being around the stars,
and they they love to make promises, right, they get
(08:23):
to walk in the room, they get to be the
star of that room full of stars.
Speaker 2 (08:28):
And I think they really love to make promises that
they can't keep, Like, I don't think I could do
that as a human being.
Speaker 1 (08:33):
Well, I don't know if they necessarily love that, Like
they don't love lying, they love control. Well, I don't
know if they even necessarily know they do it. I
think it is almost a you walk in a room
full of stars and all of a sudden, you are
the star like all these people, all the dancers. When
this person walks in and goes, oh, hey, you know I
don't yeah, and like hey, and so you walk in
(08:57):
and everyone knows this person and he's actually popped right
right in that moment or she, whoever the executive is
at that time. And yeah, they're going to make promises
to you because it makes you happy. They're just saying
things to placate you and make you happy because they
need to get you to want to sacrifice. If I
tell Cheryl, hey, you're going to be host or judge,
trust me, like everybody loves you. You're going places, I'll
(09:20):
take care of you. You're going to dance in your
living room when you have COVID, You're going to come
in and I'm.
Speaker 2 (09:26):
Going to interrupt you. I think this is why I
started to speak up for myself. Right. Whether you want
to call it a woman with an opinion or somebody
who is egotistical and narcissistic, it's neither. It's just the
fact that I was learning the bullshit, yeah, and I
was so tired of it now. I was tired of
going through William Morris, my agent, who was basically calling
(09:49):
them out like it was exactly what you had said,
and then it was like put it in writing, right,
it didn't happen.
Speaker 3 (09:56):
Right, I left.
Speaker 1 (09:58):
Or they'll even say they will, like, oh yeah we will,
we will, but you can't, but like, but then you don't, yeah,
And then they never do.
Speaker 2 (10:03):
And then I have another offer at another network, NBC,
and so then I'm going to go there, and then
I come back and then I feel like I've been
punished ever since.
Speaker 1 (10:13):
Well, that's the thing. They you know, I stepped out
a lot and did other shows, and if I did Millionaire,
if I did Miss America, and I took another gig
outside the Bachelor, it's like I would come back home
and be punished. It was, and it really is like
a relationship where it's as if I had stepped out gaslighting.
It's well, it's as if I stepped out on my
my lover. It's like I went out and was kind
(10:34):
of hitting on it. I was flirting and I was
hitting on other people. And I come home and I
smell like someone else's perfume, and they get they get
very jealous and protective.
Speaker 2 (10:43):
They don't say it, they don't communicate it.
Speaker 1 (10:44):
No, there's they'll they'll do things like all of a sudden,
you'll have a co host or someone will be like, oh,
we're taking off this, or yeah it's like, oh, you know,
I think we want you have.
Speaker 2 (10:53):
The worst celebrity ever. Or you'll be in the back
of the group numbers you're like, what the hell? What?
Speaker 1 (10:58):
Yeah, what? There's always ways for them to kind of
put their their thumbprint on you. But it is it's
a it's a power grab and it's our industry is
not any different than other businesses who do this. But
we live in this world and it's it's Laura and
I discussed this a lot. When you're doing something in
the arts, and we are, you can't take yourself out
(11:20):
of it. It's emotional, you're dancing. Your soul is in this. Yeah,
it's how we communicate. And when I'm hosting or whatever,
that's that's me. And so you can't say it's not
personal because for us, everything we're doing is personal.
Speaker 2 (11:33):
And by the way, it is to them too, like
I don't care. Yes, maybe they're better at it because
they're the ones in control, but don't tell me it's
not It doesn't come from an emotion in their body
that's being triggered. Right, So basically, but we're still because
we you know, we don't have our own network yet yet.
Speaker 1 (12:03):
How did you find out officially when you weren't going
to be hosting or.
Speaker 2 (12:09):
I mean back, okay, so much I want to say,
was this.
Speaker 1 (12:12):
The Tyra's situation?
Speaker 2 (12:14):
No, this was I mean, this would be so controversial
even before Tyra, like when Tom was still.
Speaker 1 (12:20):
They were looking for a new co host with Tom.
Speaker 2 (12:22):
I mean, I can't, but you could you get Andrews?
Speaker 1 (12:27):
Was it Aaron? Was she ever co host? Am I
making this? Okay?
Speaker 2 (12:32):
So it was if you actually I mean you could
just talked about you coming in. Well nope, but like
on the d like nobody knows. And this was right
when my contract of like one hundred years finally finished,
right like it was like done. And then I at
the time it was Paul to leg D who remember Paul. Yeah,
(12:52):
so he was running this unscripted over at NBC and
had this show for me called I Can Do That
with Colschure Zinger, Joe Jonas Sierra and it just sounded
fun because it was like, okay, but here you are
promising me the world, and I said I would stay
if you put it in writing, if you.
Speaker 1 (13:10):
Put it in a contract.
Speaker 2 (13:11):
I mean, this is just one on one, like come on.
And then they say at the last second no, And
then of course, you know, Paul's so excited. He goes,
this is gonna be huge. I'm stealing you from a
show that I used to work at, and from like
you've been so heavily like you know, he fed off
this shit and for me, I'm scared, like I'm literally scared,
but I'm also trying to put me first. But at
(13:31):
the same time, I only know Dancing with the Stars
that was the heart like one of the hardest decisions
of my life because it's like, I want to believe
you right, but let's just be real, I also have
to believe.
Speaker 1 (13:42):
I want to believe that you guys will actually do
the right thing, because you do feel like a family.
Speaker 2 (13:46):
You feel like these I'm almost like I'm stupid, Like
how are you going to convince somebody that you're you're
promising them the world and you're not going to put
it in writing like that is insanity?
Speaker 1 (13:56):
Like you at dancing you're just Sheryl Burke, Yes, period,
just this woman who's living her life, your emotions and you.
Speaker 2 (14:03):
This is you and that was my identity was And.
Speaker 1 (14:05):
They are massive, you know, the two biggest I was
dealing with two of the biggest studios in the world.
And you're a rounding air. You're not even a rounding
air in their mind.
Speaker 2 (14:14):
What's that meaning?
Speaker 1 (14:16):
You're you're worrying consequential? Oh you know, did me leaving
the show heard it? Yeah?
Speaker 2 (14:22):
Of course, like Tom run right.
Speaker 1 (14:24):
When Tom left Dancing with the Stars, he didn't leave it. Yeah,
well he was. Yeah, that got messy and I need
to ask Tom on because it's that was crazy to me.
Speaker 2 (14:33):
I mean, I made him a two parter in my
new podcast. Since you're not going to promote it sex
Lies and spray tanks.
Speaker 1 (14:38):
You're doing Wait, you're doing a podcast, shut up my
third podcast.
Speaker 2 (14:42):
If this doesn't work, I don't know what will.
Speaker 1 (14:44):
It's on iHeart Radio. You can find sex lies and videotapes.
Speaker 2 (14:48):
Where videotapes and vhs tap.
Speaker 1 (14:50):
Do you remember that movie Rob good one, Sex Lies
and spray tans?
Speaker 2 (14:56):
Yes, the summary of what let's talk.
Speaker 1 (14:59):
About like that? Because you are pissing everybody else.
Speaker 2 (15:02):
Oh I'm not.
Speaker 1 (15:03):
You know, it's funny when you kind of break away
and you get it's like any relationships, you start to
get perspective. Yeah, you get your power back, you get
your voice back.
Speaker 2 (15:12):
Well, I haven't gotten there yet, you will. I mean,
I believe my voice is definitely loud and clear. However,
the repercussions still make me feel a certain way.
Speaker 1 (15:23):
They scary. It's scary.
Speaker 2 (15:24):
It's that scary. It's more like empty because it's so
interesting how I define. I mean, it's not that interesting.
It's all I mean, it is interesting. I defined myself
by dancing, literally by what place did I get? This
last season? Was was how I was holding myself in public,
like whether I was confident or not. Now if I was,
if I won, then you know I'm feeling great, Like
(15:46):
it's so interesting just to dissect that time of my
life at seventeen years of my life.
Speaker 1 (15:52):
You know, well, what's and again this is an actual
plus we're dancing with the star, seeing we're saying good
things that if people think these answers don't care and
it's not competitive, you're crazy. Like you know, I remember
back in the day I was friends with Mark ballas
I was friends with you Maxim. All these guys, trust me,
they want to effing win, Like I remember you, well, no,
(16:13):
but you want to win the competition. You want to dance, well,
you want good score, you wanted to win.
Speaker 2 (16:17):
Okay, wait, no, no, you didn't want to win. It's
those boys you were talking about. Now they have a
different it's more like a competition between them. But for honestly,
for me it I think I won back in nineteen
sixty two, and I was the most successful when it
wasn't when I didn't make it about me. And then
when I started getting a little selfish, oh, then it
started to work against me.
Speaker 1 (16:38):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (16:38):
And then when I became sober, I had a whole
new perspective on this whole show.
Speaker 1 (16:43):
You've been sober for five years, which I love. Congratulations.
Speaker 2 (16:47):
So they told me that you said the reason why
they said that I didn't get to do the Bachelor
Bachelorette because Chris Harrison said that you're a sloppy drunk.
Speaker 1 (16:56):
That's so funny, and you know, it's great here, this
is what's beautiful. We can talk about this they in public.
They would never give me that kind of power to
decide who the Bachelor Bacherette is. Yeah, I mean Mike
would ask me, or you know, or somebody would ask like, hey,
like what do you think about Emily Maynard, what do
you think about Jason Mesnick? Whatever? And I give my
(17:17):
two cents, but like they would go, you know, I
could tell them a thousand because there's a lot of bachelor's.
This is why I know it's not true. There's a
lot of bachelor's and bacherettes. And I won't say anybody
specific that I didn't think. Well, I will give you
one Sean Low, because he turned out to be a
good friend and he's great.
Speaker 2 (17:33):
I I he's still married.
Speaker 1 (17:34):
Yeah, and he's still married. He's he's our only he's
our only success story. They really hang their hat on
Sean Low. I think of the Bachelor's he's it interesting.
I mean already ended up kind of dating, breaking up
and dating and getting married. And then Jason Mesnick did
the same thing. So I remember season one.
Speaker 2 (17:51):
With Kelly Moniko.
Speaker 1 (17:52):
I wasn't there no Trista.
Speaker 2 (17:54):
Oh, I just interviewed her on sex, lies and spray
hands anywhere you see.
Speaker 1 (17:57):
You know the trivia question the first person ever booted
Offdancing with the Stars.
Speaker 2 (18:01):
It's called the Dancing with the Stars curse because of
your your old franchise that you were a part of.
Speaker 1 (18:05):
Why because everyone started hooking up with the dancers.
Speaker 2 (18:07):
So it was it's literally well not, I mean that's
very general of you to say, but not everyone was
hooking up with all the dancers.
Speaker 1 (18:14):
You could feel it on the dance floor. I remember
when Trista came on the show, and that kind of
started this thing. And then it was like every bachelor bacherette.
Speaker 3 (18:23):
Became a Dancing with the Stars. Was that a dancing
Was that a good thing?
Speaker 2 (18:27):
No?
Speaker 1 (18:28):
Was it? Clearly that was a bad thing.
Speaker 2 (18:30):
No, I know.
Speaker 1 (18:33):
I always thought like it kind of helped promote they
were trying to do this synergy thing.
Speaker 2 (18:36):
It's interesting what you're saying right now, because, like you know,
at the end of the day, with this podcast, like
the amount of people that you also know that are
assuming things without hearing the fucking podcast is killing me.
But it's because they don't want to hear it. It's
because they want to feel this way and they want
to feel validated.
Speaker 1 (18:56):
I think I have to send it to them.
Speaker 2 (18:57):
I'm already you offered to send what.
Speaker 1 (19:00):
The podcast because they were so they were so scared
about the podcast, and so I said, well just listen.
Speaker 2 (19:04):
And then you know, they're like the title. I'm like, well,
what do you expect? Should I call it Dancing with
the Stars? Reviews like, I mean, right, you're making money
off me, and vice versa.
Speaker 1 (19:15):
It is a powerful thing when you realize that they
don't own you and you get.
Speaker 2 (19:19):
Your voice, realize that you're never going to get that
seat at the judges table that you deserve.
Speaker 1 (19:23):
They were just dangling it in front of you. Anyway.
Speaker 2 (19:26):
Absolutely, Yeah, and here I am cha cha chaying up
until thirty nine? Need two hip replacements?
Speaker 1 (19:32):
Do you really need two hip replacements?
Speaker 3 (19:34):
No?
Speaker 2 (19:34):
For sure? Wow, I have arthritis everywhere.
Speaker 1 (19:36):
Yeah, I'm sure. I hope you'll keep rolling with the podcast.
Speaker 2 (19:50):
Oh I'm rolling with bells and whistles on and lots
of fringe and lashes and spray tands and sex and lies.
Speaker 1 (19:59):
I love it. Talk about the sex, talk about the relationships.
I mean, it's not like it's not like she all
don't know.
Speaker 2 (20:06):
It's crazier. Brooke Burke was just on and all.
Speaker 1 (20:09):
She admitted all that. All.
Speaker 2 (20:10):
She admitted I would have had a who the that
is so Disney friendly what she said. And people are
saying you wore like how dare you? Yes? People are
like being so.
Speaker 1 (20:28):
Every party Derrek Hoff ever walked into in Hollywood, his
shirt was off within four minutes.
Speaker 2 (20:34):
And he was like just spinning with that haircut. Is
just like so talented. By the way, talent. You get
a little bit of my talent.
Speaker 1 (20:41):
If I had those as, I would have taken my
shirt off to.
Speaker 2 (20:44):
I mean, I'm just jealous the same My job is
not I'm not trying to manipulate the interview and say ooh,
you know, no, I'm not. This is all new to me.
I'm not one to interview, as you know, I don't
have that much experience with it. I'm literally just having
a conversation with my friends who feel comfortable enough to
open up to me, and we just happen to just
(21:04):
you know, get some good show.
Speaker 1 (21:05):
Well that's the beauty that That is the beauty of
the podcast. It's the beauty of the long form. Is
that you get to talk, you get to say your piece.
It's never it will never end up. I mean, like
I would never do GMA or a GMA type show
again because why would you Why would anybody go on
to a show like that where they have complete control
of editing and can cut you down. I mean, I
(21:27):
don't know how many times I went to GMA, flew
to New York, spend you know, on the Red Eye.
You get there at eleven o'clock.
Speaker 2 (21:32):
At night, try putting on a dance costume, Chris, and
then you.
Speaker 1 (21:35):
Get up after an hour's sleep, and you got to
get up at five in the morning. And do you
know I remember, like Sage Steele went on and I
were to go in and doing doing Miss America. We
literally went on for like forty seconds and then they
go off and I'm like, I just finish, And so
I don't know why you would ever go on those
shows again, Like why.
Speaker 2 (21:56):
Because I but but we're different, because like you have
done what you wanted to do. Like I feel like
I haven't started yet and I've only just begun.
Speaker 1 (22:04):
But here's the thing. You have now this voice in
this podcast, you can say everything you want in long form.
I know you're still going to get pressed, trust me, No,
I'm already.
Speaker 2 (22:14):
A press side. I'm just worried I'm never going to
get hired to go.
Speaker 1 (22:16):
They're chasing you now. Well you're now more hirable than
you can what You're now more hirable than Eve.
Speaker 2 (22:23):
I mean, as far as I'm concerned, Like, I have
a lot to say, and honestly so does Trista Sutter.
Like the fact that she was the first eliminated celebrity
and we still had an hour long conversation because she
had all these feelings and she needed to talk to
somebody who understood what she was saying, and the fact
that she had closure. She can actually close that chapter.
(22:44):
I swear to God, it's so emotional and it's so
insane because you're like, wait, it's just a fucking dann show. No,
it's not like Heather, you know from Glee. She's just
like I got eliminated for ratings. That's it. I'm saying it.
I mean.
Speaker 1 (22:56):
James Vanderbeek was pretty open about his season two who
people get pissed because I felt kind of guilty and
bad because.
Speaker 2 (23:04):
You do the show.
Speaker 1 (23:05):
Don't ever do it dancing? Oh god, no, I almost.
I almost hosted it one time.
Speaker 2 (23:10):
Oh is that after before Tom?
Speaker 1 (23:12):
It was to help Tom because Tom was having a
family emergency and they ABC called me in the middle
of the day Sunday and said, can you please show up.
I was there at the table read in case Tom
didn't show up because we weren't sure how bad the
emergency was.
Speaker 3 (23:31):
You were there, I think, and he was like, no, no,
Tom knew I was there.
Speaker 2 (23:34):
Oh no.
Speaker 1 (23:35):
I was doing as a favor for Tom to take
his job. Oh no, no, no, no no. I was
doing Bachelor and Bachelor's crushing it. They just needed someone
who could definitely come in a post. No, this is
a total favor, And I actually went to the show
that Monday night, Tom walked right over to me, gave
me a hug and said, thank you for doing what
you did, because part of the promise was that I
would never speak of it while we were like during
(23:55):
the season and like nobody knew and I just disappeared.
Speaker 2 (23:57):
I never knew it.
Speaker 1 (23:58):
Yeah, and so which I just did it as a
yeah and honestly did as a favorite to the executives.
The executives called me, hey, buddy, will you do this.
You're not going to get paid, You're not going to
probably ever do it. And I said, sure. You know,
you know I'm a team player totally, because you think
you're part of the family.
Speaker 2 (24:14):
I know I've sacrificed. I mean it's been a choice
of mine, like I've chosen to have you know, the
show consume my life, and I really there's so many
great moments. I mean, honestly, I wouldn't be sitting here
with you today, you know the whole spiel. But there's
also a time too for me where I had to
take a step back and just say, okay, am I
(24:36):
still am I able to look at myself in the
mirror and like the person I see because like was
I treated Okay, yes, but there I know I deserve more.
Speaker 1 (24:49):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (24:49):
Well, and it's not more money. I'm not saying more money.
I'm saying I know I deserved to be believed in.
Speaker 3 (24:56):
Yeah, And it's not like I'm not capable.
Speaker 1 (24:58):
Maybe in moments respected a lot more. We won't get into.
Speaker 2 (25:02):
That, so I won't to Aretha Franklin song r E
s PC tea commercial.
Speaker 1 (25:10):
And so the point I've taken out of so many
of these podcasts is multiple things can be true at once.
Speaker 2 (25:17):
It's it's true, it is true.
Speaker 1 (25:19):
We all things get so black and white. It's like
you're this, You're you're a villain, You're not. It's I
hate dancing. I loved it. It's like that's it's not true.
I can feel blessed about The Bachelor. I'll take it
on me. I can feel blessed I did that show.
It changed my life, it changed my kids' lives. There
can be things I'm not happy with. There's people I'm
not happy with in moments in those twenty years. It's
(25:40):
impossible that it was perfect.
Speaker 2 (25:43):
There's no such thing anyway, such thing. Yeah, but I
think that because it's still kind of a fresh wound
for me. Yeah, in a way. It's like I think
a lot of entertainers are in this business because they
look for validation, right in general, like if you really
were to just dig deep, and we want that, especially
from the people who hired us. And there's still a
(26:04):
lot of those people that I basically moved from Harlem
to la and I considered, you know, whatever they thought
of me or however I placed. Like I said earlier,
was my way of identifying myself. And it's sad. But
then when it's gone, and not only was it just
the show, but it said divorce, it's also you know,
I just decided to do it all at once.
Speaker 1 (26:25):
Yeah, the band is, you know what, my entire life.
Speaker 2 (26:30):
In one year, they move out of the house. Sixteen years,
just divorce and then I'm the worst divorce of all
Dancing with the Stars.
Speaker 1 (26:36):
You know, just leave the just leave, yeah, just blow
it all up.
Speaker 2 (26:39):
But I'm so happy I did, honestly because I think
that I'm glad you see it that a lot of
love and respect for myself that I never had.
Speaker 1 (26:46):
I was going to ask if because I've stepped away,
and as I've gotten away, I realized it was a
blessing and it's it's my life is so much better
and I found love and I'm going to get married.
And I don't know if all that stuff would have
happened if I was still on the road grinding out
and dealing with the crap I had been dealing with. Yeah,
and so in a lot of ways, it's a blessing.
And I hope you if you haven't found that piece,
(27:06):
I hope you do.
Speaker 2 (27:07):
Yeah, I will. I'm on the road to it. Like
I think it's hard to sometimes, especially with a podcast.
I mean, in a way, would you have done a
podcast about the Bachelor Bachelorette franchise right after?
Speaker 1 (27:18):
No?
Speaker 2 (27:19):
Right?
Speaker 1 (27:19):
Yeah, people and people wanted me to. People ask me,
iheard asked me. I'm sure, And it's like, and I
don't watch the show. I don't. It wasn't, you know,
And it's not for any other reason other than it's
not really my jam anyway, right, But of course I'm
not gonna go watch it's like my It's like I like,
I'm gonna go watch my ex girlfriend date somebody. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (27:37):
So I'm doing this right now as we speak. But
I love the like I do love dance, right, So
it's not like it's just you know though, I would
I just pitched this to uh, the president of Unscripted
at Netflix. I would do Love is Blind in two
seconds if they did a celebrity version.
Speaker 1 (27:56):
Hmmm, I like that right, But.
Speaker 2 (27:59):
There's two rules. One you can't talk about the career
obviously that you're a part of. And two obviously appearances. Yeah,
and if you do buying yourself another Love is Blinder.
Speaker 1 (28:13):
So that's where we're gonna see Cheryl just.
Speaker 2 (28:15):
Blind walking around trying to find my match. Have you
done mass singer yet? They've asked me, you need to
have Tom on your podcast to you know what.
Speaker 1 (28:24):
I will have Tom because there's I heard a lot
of things about Tom and I knew Tom and I
love Tom. Before we get to that, Okay, can we
wrap this up? I mean, here's the thing said. I
always say I like a good, clean beginning and a
clean ending on these shows. We completely blew up the
beginning of the show. It was a disaster. I'm not
even sure people knew Cheryl Burke was on the show.
Speaker 2 (28:44):
I didn't even know we started the interview. Can we
start again?
Speaker 1 (28:46):
And now we're crashing and burning to end this show?
And that's the way it should be. Cheryl, thank you
for being here for this absolute dumpster fire of a show.
In all seriousness, I love you. You're a dear friend too.
I've known you for quite a long time and we've
been through the battles together and I'm glad to see
you healthy, sober, kicking.
Speaker 3 (29:05):
Ass Asian Oprah is my name, Asian Oprah. I have
not heard that agent, but Asian No, I understood what
you're saying.
Speaker 1 (29:12):
OK, gotcha. That's a great note to end on. Thanks
for listening. Follow us on Instagram at the most dramatic
pod ever, and make sure to write us a review
and leave us five stars. I'll talk to you next time.
This is the most dramatic podcast ever and iHeartRadio podcast Cherlbert.
Can we start the show?
Speaker 2 (00:08):
Sure?
Speaker 1 (00:09):
Can we start the most dramatic podcast? Oh my god,
we are on the road.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
That name up?
Speaker 1 (00:15):
Actually, I did not make the name up, Amy Sugarman.
One of our producers made that name up.
Speaker 2 (00:19):
It's almost as long as sex, Lies and Spray Tans.
And yes, I just dropped my own podcast.
Speaker 1 (00:23):
We are less than a minute. I know this, And
you just dropped the name of your podcast on top
of my podcast. Okay, Sex Lies and spray Tans. Yes,
that's the podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:32):
I definitely don't have one right now, Noli Tan. I'm
not going to show you because it's embarrassing. My laser transparent.
I look like Casper the Friendly Ghosts.
Speaker 1 (00:43):
You look like an iPhone on in the dark.
Speaker 2 (00:45):
Like Tom.
Speaker 1 (00:47):
Tom, Tom, don't don't mess with Pasty Tom Burser good.
I love Tommy. You love Tom?
Speaker 2 (00:53):
Yes, and he loves you. We just interviewed I just
interviewed him, so you did.
Speaker 1 (00:56):
Yeah, he was so funny. He was I know if
I told you that story like he we were kind
of the two hosts at ABC. He's obviously tenured and
had been there a lot longer, and I was he
had done Miss America. I was taking over Miss America
the next year. I hadn't met Tom and I met
him at this Disney thing. Remember back in the day
we used to do Primetime twenty three. Yeah, we used
(01:18):
to go down into Primetime Disney previews and we'd go down.
Speaker 2 (01:20):
To dance a little yeah, good free guide. You know.
Speaker 1 (01:23):
It was so fun back in the day. We'd be
down at Disney doing these events and it was, you know,
Dennis Franz, John Ritter, Belushi was there for made some
you know, goofy.
Speaker 2 (01:34):
According to Jail, I don't even know who you're saying
right now, that's how sheltered of a life that it was.
Speaker 1 (01:39):
I loved it. It was like it was we had
such good stars back then.
Speaker 2 (01:43):
No, we really did. I mean we also had free
the stars. We had guys like we didn't have to
wait in lines now there they refuse.
Speaker 1 (01:50):
They would give you the plaid jacket person who would
put you to the front. And I had kids, so
I had these little kids who had just born. Some
my kids were born into Disney. We would go to
Disney and yeah, oh so spoiled, and so the worst
part is the best part. These plaid jacket people take
you through the exit and then you walk right to
the front and you know of Magic Mountain or whatever
(02:12):
it is, Space Mountain, and you feel the glare of
the people on the other side of the turnstile who've
been waiting in line for an hour, and you just
teach your kids like, don't look, don't look directly at anybody,
don't look, just keep your heads down, feeling we're going
to get on the ride and we're just gonna pretend
like this never happened.
Speaker 2 (02:28):
Oh, that's the worst though.
Speaker 1 (02:29):
But I didn't feel so bad that I didn't take
advantage of it because multiple times, Yeah, we did Disney World.
I did Disney. I did a Disney cruise.
Speaker 2 (02:37):
Same. I got the hell out of that, though fast.
I was like, we stopped at Florida and I was like,
I'm not going, I'm not on boarding, I'm not a.
Speaker 1 (02:44):
And my son actually looked at me one day said Dad,
we're not cruisers. And he was young at the time,
and he's right, we're not cruisers yet You're right. As
I get older, I.
Speaker 3 (02:52):
Will be there cruising through a last and I'd be that.
Speaker 2 (02:55):
Girl dancing as part of the show, Lauren, look at
the salmon.
Speaker 1 (02:59):
They're running up the stream.
Speaker 2 (03:00):
Totally.
Speaker 1 (03:01):
I don't know why that's my voice when I get older,
but that's what's going to happen to me. This show
is turned into a train wreck already.
Speaker 2 (03:08):
That is my middle name. I'm kidding. I have to
be nice to myself, supposedly therapist.
Speaker 3 (03:14):
What year did you start dancing in general?
Speaker 2 (03:17):
No?
Speaker 1 (03:17):
No, Dancing with the Stars.
Speaker 2 (03:18):
Oh, two thousand and six, okay, season two? So I
twenty one, two thousand yes, yes, you were a baby.
Speaker 1 (03:27):
When I met you.
Speaker 2 (03:27):
I was twenty one, not a baby. I was legal.
More than legal. I was like I was able to drink.
There was a lot of underage you know.
Speaker 1 (03:36):
You know at the time on dancing they really weren't young,
and it's like you were as young as it got, right, Totally. Yeah,
it wasn't like they did. Weren't bringing in the child actors,
right or like the child pros dancing so much as
producers they prey on and use the sexuality so much.
That's such a huge part.
Speaker 2 (03:54):
It still Disney friendly.
Speaker 1 (03:55):
Why do you think that Dancing with the Stars was
ever Disney friendly? It's never been Disney because you haven't Disney.
Speaker 2 (04:01):
Can see inside people's organs. Yeah, when they do the
splits in those little tiny costumes, it's.
Speaker 1 (04:07):
Like, how how when I got rid of the Bachelor World.
It's something I've been a part of for twenty years.
So again, it's not positive or negative. It just is
what it is.
Speaker 2 (04:17):
Was the grieving process though there you do, it's you
go through. It was yours.
Speaker 1 (04:21):
It was difficult because mine was you know, obviously I
don't know if you heard it was a bit of
a show. It got a little traumatic, and it was
kind of public.
Speaker 2 (04:29):
Yeah, kind of kind of yep, considering I don't watch
TV and I still heard about it like that is
you know, you know that you're like huge.
Speaker 1 (04:36):
Then mine went very public. It got very nasty and
got litigious and contentious and all those things.
Speaker 2 (04:42):
But how did you like, was it a shock to
the system.
Speaker 1 (04:45):
It was a big traumatic experience. Because I've been doing
except for twenty years. I kind of thought I was
probably going to continue on for a little bit longer. Anyway,
I started to think about, okay, what's nexting and moving
away from the show, but it wasn't time yet.
Speaker 2 (05:01):
And many seasons did you do.
Speaker 1 (05:03):
I did. I don't know how many seasons. I'm terrible
about that. I did twenty years here you don't know. Well, actually,
here's the problem. I did nineteen and a half years.
I wanted to get to twenty. I was my thing
was when I get to twenty years, I'm probably going
to step away. I'll figure out what this is. But obviously,
you know, nobody gets to leave typically on their own accord.
Speaker 2 (05:24):
I mean I did.
Speaker 1 (05:25):
Speaking of Disney life, Life's not a Disney movie? Is
that how you left? Did you you decided to leave? No?
Speaker 2 (05:30):
I decided, Well, this is what I decided that I
no longer want to be a pro dancer. Okay, but
you know I also want.
Speaker 3 (05:38):
To evolve and be host or judge.
Speaker 2 (05:41):
Right, wouldn't that be natural? Like you would think, right,
one of the biggest I've been the longest, I've been there,
the longest.
Speaker 1 (05:46):
You're one of the biggest stars to have ever come
through that.
Speaker 2 (05:48):
Show, regardless of star. I mean, it's just like it's
hard for me to separate the business and the personal
because like, these people are my family, and yeah, but
they're not but they're not right. Yeah, But what's so
hard is that like they've seen me my most vulnerable right. So, God,
there's so much I want to say, but I just
the difficult thing is my mouth.
Speaker 1 (06:11):
You do when you when you work, and this is
not necessarily a knock on ABC or Disney or Warner
who I worked for, but partly what they want you
to do as an employee. And this is if I
own a big company, I would want you to feel
like you're a big of a big part, big happy family.
You're a part of that. You're replaceable that, yes, but yeah,
you don't get too comfortable because you're replaceable. But hey,
(06:32):
we want you to sacrifice everything. You wanted to walk
away from professional.
Speaker 2 (06:37):
Dancing because Okay, first of all, I've been saying it
for a while, but also like I just as an
artist honestly just looking at like my potential and wanting
to just grow. Like for me, this whole last year
or two years, you know, since my separation and divorce
and everything has been a huge growth growth in my life,
just like growing period where I just want to evolve
(07:00):
and I can't walk away from my marriage and then
walk away and not walk away from the show, because
it's it's all similar, right, it's all coming from the
same I guess need of wanting to evolve. And if
that's with you, great, If it's not, great, but I'm
moving on.
Speaker 1 (07:17):
And so I'm going to guess, well, you wanted to stay.
You wanted to stay.
Speaker 3 (07:22):
I wanted to stay a whole job title, yes, as
a host or judge.
Speaker 2 (07:26):
And they knew very much that I was wanting this
for many years.
Speaker 1 (07:29):
My guess, I'm going to go out on a limb
knowing the executives and especially the executive you were dealing with.
My guess, promises were.
Speaker 2 (07:37):
Made absolutely for many years.
Speaker 1 (07:39):
So promises were made to Cheryl Burke many times over.
I know they were made to you about the Bachelor
and Bachelorette and being on that show.
Speaker 2 (07:46):
You're still talking about it.
Speaker 1 (07:47):
Yeah, I know.
Speaker 2 (07:48):
So I'm heard you walk that. Did you not know?
Oh I thought you did that.
Speaker 1 (07:53):
They put that on me?
Speaker 2 (07:54):
Yeah, I think so.
Speaker 1 (07:55):
Yeah, Like I have that much power, someone said to you,
I have the power to decide to bachelor bache att.
Speaker 2 (08:00):
No, I think they blamed it on you.
Speaker 1 (08:01):
Absolutely, that's funny. But it's also the beast that we
work for, right Why it's Hollywood, it's this business. They
because they are just as scared. You know, everybody has
a boss and those people are scared to death, and
so it's just yeah, and so they look. They love
being around the talent, they love being around the stars,
and they they love to make promises, right, they get
(08:23):
to walk in the room, they get to be the
star of that room full of stars.
Speaker 2 (08:28):
And I think they really love to make promises that
they can't keep, Like, I don't think I could do
that as a human being.
Speaker 1 (08:33):
Well, I don't know if they necessarily love that, Like
they don't love lying, they love control. Well, I don't
know if they even necessarily know they do it. I
think it is almost a you walk in a room
full of stars and all of a sudden, you are
the star like all these people, all the dancers. When
this person walks in and goes, oh, hey, you know I
don't yeah, and like hey, and so you walk in
(08:57):
and everyone knows this person and he's actually popped right
right in that moment or she, whoever the executive is
at that time. And yeah, they're going to make promises
to you because it makes you happy. They're just saying
things to placate you and make you happy because they
need to get you to want to sacrifice. If I
tell Cheryl, hey, you're going to be host or judge,
trust me, like everybody loves you. You're going places, I'll
(09:20):
take care of you. You're going to dance in your
living room when you have COVID, You're going to come
in and I'm.
Speaker 2 (09:26):
Going to interrupt you. I think this is why I
started to speak up for myself. Right. Whether you want
to call it a woman with an opinion or somebody
who is egotistical and narcissistic, it's neither. It's just the
fact that I was learning the bullshit, yeah, and I
was so tired of it now. I was tired of
going through William Morris, my agent, who was basically calling
(09:49):
them out like it was exactly what you had said,
and then it was like put it in writing, right,
it didn't happen.
Speaker 3 (09:56):
Right, I left.
Speaker 1 (09:58):
Or they'll even say they will, like, oh yeah we will,
we will, but you can't, but like, but then you don't, yeah,
And then they never do.
Speaker 2 (10:03):
And then I have another offer at another network, NBC,
and so then I'm going to go there, and then
I come back and then I feel like I've been
punished ever since.
Speaker 1 (10:13):
Well, that's the thing. They you know, I stepped out
a lot and did other shows, and if I did Millionaire,
if I did Miss America, and I took another gig
outside the Bachelor, it's like I would come back home
and be punished. It was, and it really is like
a relationship where it's as if I had stepped out gaslighting.
It's well, it's as if I stepped out on my
my lover. It's like I went out and was kind
(10:34):
of hitting on it. I was flirting and I was
hitting on other people. And I come home and I
smell like someone else's perfume, and they get they get
very jealous and protective.
Speaker 2 (10:43):
They don't say it, they don't communicate it.
Speaker 1 (10:44):
No, there's they'll they'll do things like all of a sudden,
you'll have a co host or someone will be like, oh,
we're taking off this, or yeah it's like, oh, you know,
I think we want you have.
Speaker 2 (10:53):
The worst celebrity ever. Or you'll be in the back
of the group numbers you're like, what the hell? What?
Speaker 1 (10:58):
Yeah, what? There's always ways for them to kind of
put their their thumbprint on you. But it is it's
a it's a power grab and it's our industry is
not any different than other businesses who do this. But
we live in this world and it's it's Laura and
I discussed this a lot. When you're doing something in
the arts, and we are, you can't take yourself out
(11:20):
of it. It's emotional, you're dancing. Your soul is in this. Yeah,
it's how we communicate. And when I'm hosting or whatever,
that's that's me. And so you can't say it's not
personal because for us, everything we're doing is personal.
Speaker 2 (11:33):
And by the way, it is to them too, like
I don't care. Yes, maybe they're better at it because
they're the ones in control, but don't tell me it's
not It doesn't come from an emotion in their body
that's being triggered. Right, So basically, but we're still because
we you know, we don't have our own network yet yet.
Speaker 1 (12:03):
How did you find out officially when you weren't going
to be hosting or.
Speaker 2 (12:09):
I mean back, okay, so much I want to say,
was this.
Speaker 1 (12:12):
The Tyra's situation?
Speaker 2 (12:14):
No, this was I mean, this would be so controversial
even before Tyra, like when Tom was still.
Speaker 1 (12:20):
They were looking for a new co host with Tom.
Speaker 2 (12:22):
I mean, I can't, but you could you get Andrews?
Speaker 1 (12:27):
Was it Aaron? Was she ever co host? Am I
making this? Okay?
Speaker 2 (12:32):
So it was if you actually I mean you could
just talked about you coming in. Well nope, but like
on the d like nobody knows. And this was right
when my contract of like one hundred years finally finished,
right like it was like done. And then I at
the time it was Paul to leg D who remember Paul. Yeah,
(12:52):
so he was running this unscripted over at NBC and
had this show for me called I Can Do That
with Colschure Zinger, Joe Jonas Sierra and it just sounded
fun because it was like, okay, but here you are
promising me the world, and I said I would stay
if you put it in writing, if you.
Speaker 1 (13:10):
Put it in a contract.
Speaker 2 (13:11):
I mean, this is just one on one, like come on.
And then they say at the last second no, And
then of course, you know, Paul's so excited. He goes,
this is gonna be huge. I'm stealing you from a
show that I used to work at, and from like
you've been so heavily like you know, he fed off
this shit and for me, I'm scared, like I'm literally scared,
but I'm also trying to put me first. But at
(13:31):
the same time, I only know Dancing with the Stars
that was the heart like one of the hardest decisions
of my life because it's like, I want to believe
you right, but let's just be real, I also have
to believe.
Speaker 1 (13:42):
I want to believe that you guys will actually do
the right thing, because you do feel like a family.
Speaker 2 (13:46):
You feel like these I'm almost like I'm stupid, Like
how are you going to convince somebody that you're you're
promising them the world and you're not going to put
it in writing like that is insanity?
Speaker 1 (13:56):
Like you at dancing you're just Sheryl Burke, Yes, period,
just this woman who's living her life, your emotions and you.
Speaker 2 (14:03):
This is you and that was my identity was And.
Speaker 1 (14:05):
They are massive, you know, the two biggest I was
dealing with two of the biggest studios in the world.
And you're a rounding air. You're not even a rounding
air in their mind.
Speaker 2 (14:14):
What's that meaning?
Speaker 1 (14:16):
You're you're worrying consequential? Oh you know, did me leaving
the show heard it? Yeah?
Speaker 2 (14:22):
Of course, like Tom run right.
Speaker 1 (14:24):
When Tom left Dancing with the Stars, he didn't leave it. Yeah,
well he was. Yeah, that got messy and I need
to ask Tom on because it's that was crazy to me.
Speaker 2 (14:33):
I mean, I made him a two parter in my
new podcast. Since you're not going to promote it sex
Lies and spray tanks.
Speaker 1 (14:38):
You're doing Wait, you're doing a podcast, shut up my
third podcast.
Speaker 2 (14:42):
If this doesn't work, I don't know what will.
Speaker 1 (14:44):
It's on iHeart Radio. You can find sex lies and videotapes.
Speaker 2 (14:48):
Where videotapes and vhs tap.
Speaker 1 (14:50):
Do you remember that movie Rob good one, Sex Lies
and spray tans?
Speaker 2 (14:56):
Yes, the summary of what let's talk.
Speaker 1 (14:59):
About like that? Because you are pissing everybody else.
Speaker 2 (15:02):
Oh I'm not.
Speaker 1 (15:03):
You know, it's funny when you kind of break away
and you get it's like any relationships, you start to
get perspective. Yeah, you get your power back, you get
your voice back.
Speaker 2 (15:12):
Well, I haven't gotten there yet, you will. I mean,
I believe my voice is definitely loud and clear. However,
the repercussions still make me feel a certain way.
Speaker 1 (15:23):
They scary. It's scary.
Speaker 2 (15:24):
It's that scary. It's more like empty because it's so
interesting how I define. I mean, it's not that interesting.
It's all I mean, it is interesting. I defined myself
by dancing, literally by what place did I get? This
last season? Was was how I was holding myself in public,
like whether I was confident or not. Now if I was,
if I won, then you know I'm feeling great, Like
(15:46):
it's so interesting just to dissect that time of my
life at seventeen years of my life.
Speaker 1 (15:52):
You know, well, what's and again this is an actual
plus we're dancing with the star, seeing we're saying good
things that if people think these answers don't care and
it's not competitive, you're crazy. Like you know, I remember
back in the day I was friends with Mark ballas
I was friends with you Maxim. All these guys, trust me,
they want to effing win, Like I remember you, well, no,
(16:13):
but you want to win the competition. You want to dance, well,
you want good score, you wanted to win.
Speaker 2 (16:17):
Okay, wait, no, no, you didn't want to win. It's
those boys you were talking about. Now they have a
different it's more like a competition between them. But for honestly,
for me it I think I won back in nineteen
sixty two, and I was the most successful when it
wasn't when I didn't make it about me. And then
when I started getting a little selfish, oh, then it
started to work against me.
Speaker 1 (16:38):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (16:38):
And then when I became sober, I had a whole
new perspective on this whole show.
Speaker 1 (16:43):
You've been sober for five years, which I love. Congratulations.
Speaker 2 (16:47):
So they told me that you said the reason why
they said that I didn't get to do the Bachelor
Bachelorette because Chris Harrison said that you're a sloppy drunk.
Speaker 1 (16:56):
That's so funny, and you know, it's great here, this
is what's beautiful. We can talk about this they in public.
They would never give me that kind of power to
decide who the Bachelor Bacherette is. Yeah, I mean Mike
would ask me, or you know, or somebody would ask like, hey,
like what do you think about Emily Maynard, what do
you think about Jason Mesnick? Whatever? And I give my
(17:17):
two cents, but like they would go, you know, I
could tell them a thousand because there's a lot of bachelor's.
This is why I know it's not true. There's a
lot of bachelor's and bacherettes. And I won't say anybody
specific that I didn't think. Well, I will give you
one Sean Low, because he turned out to be a
good friend and he's great.
Speaker 2 (17:33):
I I he's still married.
Speaker 1 (17:34):
Yeah, and he's still married. He's he's our only he's
our only success story. They really hang their hat on
Sean Low. I think of the Bachelor's he's it interesting.
I mean already ended up kind of dating, breaking up
and dating and getting married. And then Jason Mesnick did
the same thing. So I remember season one.
Speaker 2 (17:51):
With Kelly Moniko.
Speaker 1 (17:52):
I wasn't there no Trista.
Speaker 2 (17:54):
Oh, I just interviewed her on sex, lies and spray
hands anywhere you see.
Speaker 1 (17:57):
You know the trivia question the first person ever booted
Offdancing with the Stars.
Speaker 2 (18:01):
It's called the Dancing with the Stars curse because of
your your old franchise that you were a part of.
Speaker 1 (18:05):
Why because everyone started hooking up with the dancers.
Speaker 2 (18:07):
So it was it's literally well not, I mean that's
very general of you to say, but not everyone was
hooking up with all the dancers.
Speaker 1 (18:14):
You could feel it on the dance floor. I remember
when Trista came on the show, and that kind of
started this thing. And then it was like every bachelor bacherette.
Speaker 3 (18:23):
Became a Dancing with the Stars. Was that a dancing
Was that a good thing?
Speaker 2 (18:27):
No?
Speaker 1 (18:28):
Was it? Clearly that was a bad thing.
Speaker 2 (18:30):
No, I know.
Speaker 1 (18:33):
I always thought like it kind of helped promote they
were trying to do this synergy thing.
Speaker 2 (18:36):
It's interesting what you're saying right now, because, like you know,
at the end of the day, with this podcast, like
the amount of people that you also know that are
assuming things without hearing the fucking podcast is killing me.
But it's because they don't want to hear it. It's
because they want to feel this way and they want
to feel validated.
Speaker 1 (18:56):
I think I have to send it to them.
Speaker 2 (18:57):
I'm already you offered to send what.
Speaker 1 (19:00):
The podcast because they were so they were so scared
about the podcast, and so I said, well just listen.
Speaker 2 (19:04):
And then you know, they're like the title. I'm like, well,
what do you expect? Should I call it Dancing with
the Stars? Reviews like, I mean, right, you're making money
off me, and vice versa.
Speaker 1 (19:15):
It is a powerful thing when you realize that they
don't own you and you get.
Speaker 2 (19:19):
Your voice, realize that you're never going to get that
seat at the judges table that you deserve.
Speaker 1 (19:23):
They were just dangling it in front of you. Anyway.
Speaker 2 (19:26):
Absolutely, Yeah, and here I am cha cha chaying up
until thirty nine? Need two hip replacements?
Speaker 1 (19:32):
Do you really need two hip replacements?
Speaker 3 (19:34):
No?
Speaker 2 (19:34):
For sure? Wow, I have arthritis everywhere.
Speaker 1 (19:36):
Yeah, I'm sure. I hope you'll keep rolling with the podcast.
Speaker 2 (19:50):
Oh I'm rolling with bells and whistles on and lots
of fringe and lashes and spray tands and sex and lies.
Speaker 1 (19:59):
I love it. Talk about the sex, talk about the relationships.
I mean, it's not like it's not like she all
don't know.
Speaker 2 (20:06):
It's crazier. Brooke Burke was just on and all.
Speaker 1 (20:09):
She admitted all that. All.
Speaker 2 (20:10):
She admitted I would have had a who the that
is so Disney friendly what she said. And people are
saying you wore like how dare you? Yes? People are
like being so.
Speaker 1 (20:28):
Every party Derrek Hoff ever walked into in Hollywood, his
shirt was off within four minutes.
Speaker 2 (20:34):
And he was like just spinning with that haircut. Is
just like so talented. By the way, talent. You get
a little bit of my talent.
Speaker 1 (20:41):
If I had those as, I would have taken my
shirt off to.
Speaker 2 (20:44):
I mean, I'm just jealous the same My job is
not I'm not trying to manipulate the interview and say ooh,
you know, no, I'm not. This is all new to me.
I'm not one to interview, as you know, I don't
have that much experience with it. I'm literally just having
a conversation with my friends who feel comfortable enough to
open up to me, and we just happen to just
(21:04):
you know, get some good show.
Speaker 1 (21:05):
Well that's the beauty that That is the beauty of
the podcast. It's the beauty of the long form. Is
that you get to talk, you get to say your piece.
It's never it will never end up. I mean, like
I would never do GMA or a GMA type show
again because why would you Why would anybody go on
to a show like that where they have complete control
of editing and can cut you down. I mean, I
(21:27):
don't know how many times I went to GMA, flew
to New York, spend you know, on the Red Eye.
You get there at eleven o'clock.
Speaker 2 (21:32):
At night, try putting on a dance costume, Chris, and
then you.
Speaker 1 (21:35):
Get up after an hour's sleep, and you got to
get up at five in the morning. And do you
know I remember, like Sage Steele went on and I
were to go in and doing doing Miss America. We
literally went on for like forty seconds and then they
go off and I'm like, I just finish, And so
I don't know why you would ever go on those
shows again, Like why.
Speaker 2 (21:56):
Because I but but we're different, because like you have
done what you wanted to do. Like I feel like
I haven't started yet and I've only just begun.
Speaker 1 (22:04):
But here's the thing. You have now this voice in
this podcast, you can say everything you want in long form.
I know you're still going to get pressed, trust me, No,
I'm already.
Speaker 2 (22:14):
A press side. I'm just worried I'm never going to
get hired to go.
Speaker 1 (22:16):
They're chasing you now. Well you're now more hirable than
you can what You're now more hirable than Eve.
Speaker 2 (22:23):
I mean, as far as I'm concerned, Like, I have
a lot to say, and honestly so does Trista Sutter.
Like the fact that she was the first eliminated celebrity
and we still had an hour long conversation because she
had all these feelings and she needed to talk to
somebody who understood what she was saying, and the fact
that she had closure. She can actually close that chapter.
(22:44):
I swear to God, it's so emotional and it's so
insane because you're like, wait, it's just a fucking dann show. No,
it's not like Heather, you know from Glee. She's just
like I got eliminated for ratings. That's it. I'm saying it.
I mean.
Speaker 1 (22:56):
James Vanderbeek was pretty open about his season two who
people get pissed because I felt kind of guilty and
bad because.
Speaker 2 (23:04):
You do the show.
Speaker 1 (23:05):
Don't ever do it dancing? Oh god, no, I almost.
I almost hosted it one time.
Speaker 2 (23:10):
Oh is that after before Tom?
Speaker 1 (23:12):
It was to help Tom because Tom was having a
family emergency and they ABC called me in the middle
of the day Sunday and said, can you please show up.
I was there at the table read in case Tom
didn't show up because we weren't sure how bad the
emergency was.
Speaker 3 (23:31):
You were there, I think, and he was like, no, no,
Tom knew I was there.
Speaker 2 (23:34):
Oh no.
Speaker 1 (23:35):
I was doing as a favor for Tom to take
his job. Oh no, no, no, no no. I was
doing Bachelor and Bachelor's crushing it. They just needed someone
who could definitely come in a post. No, this is
a total favor, And I actually went to the show
that Monday night, Tom walked right over to me, gave
me a hug and said, thank you for doing what
you did, because part of the promise was that I
would never speak of it while we were like during
(23:55):
the season and like nobody knew and I just disappeared.
Speaker 2 (23:57):
I never knew it.
Speaker 1 (23:58):
Yeah, and so which I just did it as a
yeah and honestly did as a favorite to the executives.
The executives called me, hey, buddy, will you do this.
You're not going to get paid, You're not going to
probably ever do it. And I said, sure. You know,
you know I'm a team player totally, because you think
you're part of the family.
Speaker 2 (24:14):
I know I've sacrificed. I mean it's been a choice
of mine, like I've chosen to have you know, the
show consume my life, and I really there's so many
great moments. I mean, honestly, I wouldn't be sitting here
with you today, you know the whole spiel. But there's
also a time too for me where I had to
take a step back and just say, okay, am I
(24:36):
still am I able to look at myself in the
mirror and like the person I see because like was
I treated Okay, yes, but there I know I deserve more.
Speaker 1 (24:49):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (24:49):
Well, and it's not more money. I'm not saying more money.
I'm saying I know I deserved to be believed in.
Speaker 3 (24:56):
Yeah, And it's not like I'm not capable.
Speaker 1 (24:58):
Maybe in moments respected a lot more. We won't get into.
Speaker 2 (25:02):
That, so I won't to Aretha Franklin song r E
s PC tea commercial.
Speaker 1 (25:10):
And so the point I've taken out of so many
of these podcasts is multiple things can be true at once.
Speaker 2 (25:17):
It's it's true, it is true.
Speaker 1 (25:19):
We all things get so black and white. It's like
you're this, You're you're a villain, You're not. It's I
hate dancing. I loved it. It's like that's it's not true.
I can feel blessed about The Bachelor. I'll take it
on me. I can feel blessed I did that show.
It changed my life, it changed my kids' lives. There
can be things I'm not happy with. There's people I'm
not happy with in moments in those twenty years. It's
(25:40):
impossible that it was perfect.
Speaker 2 (25:43):
There's no such thing anyway, such thing. Yeah, but I
think that because it's still kind of a fresh wound
for me. Yeah, in a way. It's like I think
a lot of entertainers are in this business because they
look for validation, right in general, like if you really
were to just dig deep, and we want that, especially
from the people who hired us. And there's still a
(26:04):
lot of those people that I basically moved from Harlem
to la and I considered, you know, whatever they thought
of me or however I placed. Like I said earlier,
was my way of identifying myself. And it's sad. But
then when it's gone, and not only was it just
the show, but it said divorce, it's also you know,
I just decided to do it all at once.
Speaker 1 (26:25):
Yeah, the band is, you know what, my entire life.
Speaker 2 (26:30):
In one year, they move out of the house. Sixteen years,
just divorce and then I'm the worst divorce of all
Dancing with the Stars.
Speaker 1 (26:36):
You know, just leave the just leave, yeah, just blow
it all up.
Speaker 2 (26:39):
But I'm so happy I did, honestly because I think
that I'm glad you see it that a lot of
love and respect for myself that I never had.
Speaker 1 (26:46):
I was going to ask if because I've stepped away,
and as I've gotten away, I realized it was a
blessing and it's it's my life is so much better
and I found love and I'm going to get married.
And I don't know if all that stuff would have
happened if I was still on the road grinding out
and dealing with the crap I had been dealing with. Yeah,
and so in a lot of ways, it's a blessing.
And I hope you if you haven't found that piece,
(27:06):
I hope you do.
Speaker 2 (27:07):
Yeah, I will. I'm on the road to it. Like
I think it's hard to sometimes, especially with a podcast.
I mean, in a way, would you have done a
podcast about the Bachelor Bachelorette franchise right after?
Speaker 1 (27:18):
No?
Speaker 2 (27:19):
Right?
Speaker 1 (27:19):
Yeah, people and people wanted me to. People ask me,
iheard asked me. I'm sure, And it's like, and I
don't watch the show. I don't. It wasn't, you know,
And it's not for any other reason other than it's
not really my jam anyway, right, But of course I'm
not gonna go watch it's like my It's like I like,
I'm gonna go watch my ex girlfriend date somebody. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (27:37):
So I'm doing this right now as we speak. But
I love the like I do love dance, right, So
it's not like it's just you know though, I would
I just pitched this to uh, the president of Unscripted
at Netflix. I would do Love is Blind in two
seconds if they did a celebrity version.
Speaker 1 (27:56):
Hmmm, I like that right, But.
Speaker 2 (27:59):
There's two rules. One you can't talk about the career
obviously that you're a part of. And two obviously appearances. Yeah,
and if you do buying yourself another Love is Blinder.
Speaker 1 (28:13):
So that's where we're gonna see Cheryl just.
Speaker 2 (28:15):
Blind walking around trying to find my match. Have you
done mass singer yet? They've asked me, you need to
have Tom on your podcast to you know what.
Speaker 1 (28:24):
I will have Tom because there's I heard a lot
of things about Tom and I knew Tom and I
love Tom. Before we get to that, Okay, can we
wrap this up? I mean, here's the thing said. I
always say I like a good, clean beginning and a
clean ending on these shows. We completely blew up the
beginning of the show. It was a disaster. I'm not
even sure people knew Cheryl Burke was on the show.
Speaker 2 (28:44):
I didn't even know we started the interview. Can we
start again?
Speaker 1 (28:46):
And now we're crashing and burning to end this show?
And that's the way it should be. Cheryl, thank you
for being here for this absolute dumpster fire of a show.
In all seriousness, I love you. You're a dear friend too.
I've known you for quite a long time and we've
been through the battles together and I'm glad to see
you healthy, sober, kicking.
Speaker 3 (29:05):
Ass Asian Oprah is my name, Asian Oprah. I have
not heard that agent, but Asian No, I understood what
you're saying.
Speaker 1 (29:12):
OK, gotcha. That's a great note to end on. Thanks
for listening. Follow us on Instagram at the most dramatic
pod ever, and make sure to write us a review
and leave us five stars. I'll talk to you next time.
Hosts And Creators
Lauren Zima
Chris Harrison
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