Jefferson welcomes Gil Birmingham (Rainwater) and Mo Brings Plenty (Mo) on the show to discuss how they build off of their own experiences and relationships to create authentic characters in the world of Yellowstone.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:07):
Hey y'all. Once again, welcome back to the Official Yellowstone Podcast,
presented by Win Las Vegas. I'm Jefferson White, your guide
on this journey, this journey into the world of Yellowstone.
I'm coming to you again from the podcast studio here
at WIN Las Vegas. Don't worry. They haven't been holding
me hostage. I've actually it's kind of the opposite. I've
been camping out here. They've been trying to get rid
(00:28):
of me, but I got a sleeping bag in a
mini bar. I'm set. I've been here a few times
over the last month, and every time I wind up
finding a new thing that I love about this place.
So one of the incredible gifts of working on Yellowstone
for me has been getting to learn more about the
various cultures and communities that the show represents. I'm new
to cattle ranching, as you well know, I'm new to
(00:49):
the rodeo world. And I also, I have to say,
I've been very, very ignorant and naive when it comes
to Native American culture and the issues that face contemporary
Native American culture. I am so so grateful for our
next guests today. I am honored to chat with two
people that obviously do an incredible job at representing their
(01:10):
culture on this show, none other than chairman Thomas Rainwater.
That's Gil Birmingham and his badass driver slash bodyguard Mo
Brenks Plenty. I'm gonna step aside for a moment and
then we're going to dive right in. Okay, amazing. I
feel so lucky, so grateful to have with me today
Gil Birmingham, who plays Thomas Rainwater. Gil, thank you so
(01:30):
so much for taking the time.
Speaker 2 (01:32):
Oh, it's a real pleasure to be able to sit
here and chat with you, Jeff.
Speaker 3 (01:36):
I haven't seen you for a while.
Speaker 1 (01:37):
I know. What a gift. That's one of the amazing
One of the most fun things about this podcast has
been the opportunity to sit down between seasons when we
haven't seen each other for months. But it sounds like
you've been incredibly busy in the interim.
Speaker 3 (01:50):
I have.
Speaker 2 (01:50):
I have, I've been I don't think I've traveled more
or socialized more since this whole COVID thing went down,
but of course following all the protocols. But it's nice
to be back in the grand us of a.
Speaker 1 (02:01):
Yeah, I was gonna say you so. Folks at home
know you from many roles. Folks at home know you
from a long career of incredible highlights. Will you just
take a second, at your own pace, at your own length,
just describe everything that brought you up to Yellowstone.
Speaker 2 (02:19):
Yeah, that's always fascinating for me. I think it happened
after I got out of college and I got involved
in bodybuilding. I think a lot of fans are pretty
pretty familiar with that already. But I got scouted into
the gym to participate in the music video with Diana Ross,
and I loved beyond set and my girlfriend at the
(02:41):
time said, do you know, why don't you Why don't
you start taking classes? And I did, and that's kind
of where it started. But I don't know that I
took it as seriously the craft itself, until I started
doing projects that were more representational for the Native community,
and then I really understood the responsibility of it. So yeah,
(03:03):
I've been I've been very blessed with a varied career
and leading up to Yellowstone, there's well, of course, I
encountered Taylor, you know, back in twenty seventeen, twenty sixteen
with Hell or High.
Speaker 3 (03:14):
Water, and then he brought me in on wind River.
Speaker 2 (03:17):
So that relationship started some five years ago, which I
feel so so grateful for and very blessed by, and
has led itself into Yellowstone.
Speaker 3 (03:28):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (03:28):
What a gift to work with the same director writer
for an extended period of time. I guess it's a
rare gift. As an actor, you know, you sort of
jump from project to project. It's a kind of it
can feel like a sort of freelance mercenary lifestyle, but
the opportunity to settle in with a collaborator over time
(03:49):
feels like such a rare opportunity. So will you just
talk about how you first met Taylor, how you sort
of what brought about the beginning of the collaboration that
had sense matured into into where you find yourself now.
Speaker 2 (04:04):
Well, it definitely started with hell or high Water, and
as you were describing, it is really kind of a life,
the circus lifestyle, and that project had so many interesting
elements to it. We had Chris Pine, who only had
a two week window to film before he went off
I think to Wonder Wonder Woman, and so it came
(04:25):
together so fast, I think within the course of like
five weeks, and we had to get everything lined up
and then we shot for five weeks. But but the project,
you know, really highlighted, you know, even beyond Sacario with Taylor,
and that's when I became, uh, you know, I came
to understand Taylor in the way he writes. And then
I was so so thrilled to be brought back on
(04:49):
Whin River, another incredible project. And yeah, I think most
of our collaboratings come at a time in filming Yellowstone
because we have a little more time we have or
episodes we have a longer duration, and after four years,
I think Taylor is just so so specific about the
(05:10):
actors that he cast, and he lets them do.
Speaker 3 (05:13):
The work he does. He does a layout, he does
the writing, and he trusts his actors.
Speaker 1 (05:18):
What I find really interesting about that is that, Yeah,
Taylor has a lot of collaborators that he works with
on project after project, and a lot of those I
think you're totally right that he sees people's energies and
he brings in I think he's amazing at casting. Something
interesting about the roles that you've played for Taylor is
they're all quite different. They all sort of fell quite
(05:39):
different positions in the story. Does that feel true to you?
Speaker 2 (05:44):
Yeah, you know, I think I think when you're in
the project, when you're doing it, that's all. That's the
world you live in. And now that you mentioned it,
that's that's pretty interesting. They are very different. And I
think when River scared scared the hell out of me
when Taylor called me up about it, and I said, oh, yeah,
that's that's really incredible writing. I like to do Graham
(06:06):
the police officer, the tribal police officer, And he said, Nope,
you're not doing that one.
Speaker 3 (06:11):
You're doing this one. And I think it was because.
Speaker 2 (06:15):
Just the heartbreak of the subject matter and feeling that
that was the way that I would have to take
on and and I wanted to represent it in the
best possible way. And he just had trust, and he
had more trust in me than.
Speaker 3 (06:29):
I had in me.
Speaker 2 (06:30):
And from that point on, I said, whatever it is
you want Daylor, you think I can do it, then
I can do it.
Speaker 3 (06:37):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (06:37):
I think that's incredible because especially you know the idea
of representation. So in Hell or high Water, you played
a police officer. In wind River, you played a man
living on a reservation sort of struggling from a sort
of different part of the socioeconomic spectrum, and then in
Yellowstone you play somebody on the opposite side of the
socioeconomic spectrum, somebody who has had, you know, the bin
(07:00):
fit of wealth and finds themselves in a position of
status and authority. I think that's a fascinating It really
shows a whole spectrum of experiences. Because you talked earlier
about feeling a sense of responsibility to tell these stories,
to tell you know, Native indigenous stories, and those three
different roles represent three completely different experiences. So will you
(07:22):
talk a little bit about the sort of breadth of
experiences that you've had the opportunity to step into.
Speaker 3 (07:31):
Wow, that's a really you have the good questions here, Jeff.
Speaker 1 (07:35):
Oh, thanks, Gil.
Speaker 2 (07:37):
That's what I've heard about you, and now I believe it. Gosh,
I don't know. You're so intertwined with the character at
the time you do it and then you kind of
release it so to reflect back on it. But you're right,
and it has so much to do with the dynamics
of the other actors that you're working with as well.
Speaker 3 (07:53):
Jeff Bridges was incredible.
Speaker 2 (07:55):
You know, Jeremy Renner, which is primarily who I did
my scenes with, and when River Kevin Costner Happy Birthday,
Kevin on Yellowstone.
Speaker 3 (08:08):
So they're all.
Speaker 2 (08:09):
Iconic performers and to bring your own game to it
and the context of the representation is.
Speaker 3 (08:18):
I don't know what would I say about that. I
don't know.
Speaker 2 (08:23):
It's it just feels like you have to get to
the heart, the heart of the character and the connection
that he has to his people.
Speaker 3 (08:30):
Maybe not so much.
Speaker 2 (08:31):
On Hell or High Water, but definitely when River and
definitely in Yellowstone. So that's that's a bigger breath in
terms of the representation. So yeah, I learned something all
the time. And then dealing with subject matter like we've
did in season two, I think with the missing and
murdered Indigenous women, you know, these are powerful subject matters
(08:52):
to write about and to represent. I just feels like
a responsibility. I guess that's a keyword I would I
would say I feel about it.
Speaker 1 (09:02):
And that's an interesting synergy between you, the actor, and
the character because it certainly feels like Thomas Rainwater is
also bound by a sense of responsibility, by a sense
of duty to his history, to his people. It really
feels like the character also carries a tremendous amount of
(09:25):
responsibility on his shoulders. Do you feel does that make
does that sort of resonate with your experience of it?
Speaker 3 (09:32):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (09:32):
And you know, and that's in the context of contemporary
time where these these corporate forces are coming in and
and John and Rainwater actually have a similar though not
identical respect for the land and a purpose for for
wanting to keep it. It's more of a legacy something
that that's come down through the family for John. But
(09:55):
it's really where the power of my people resigne in
the connection with the land. So that might be the
only difference, but it's a crucial difference.
Speaker 3 (10:08):
But yeah, it's it's pretty daunting sometimes.
Speaker 1 (10:14):
It's Yeah, and it feels like the character is often
I mean, I just I'm always interested where you know,
the experience of an actor in real life resonates with
the experience of a character in a project. You know.
It's like, you can call that a lot of different names,
people call it a lot of different things. I'm always
just sort of curious about it because I feel like
it adds a layer to the performance that like deepens,
(10:39):
deepens a character. You know, when we look at Rainwater
and he's experiencing the weight of responsibility, that is deepened
and enriched by the fact that you the actor are,
to a certain extent feeling the weight of responsibility that
you're describing. I'm always just sort of curious about that.
(10:59):
And it also feels like, you know, as you just
mentioned Yellowstone, I think in so many interesting ways, kind
of complicates these archetypal narratives. You know, in the first season,
there's this you know, just direct kind of setup of
and you know, an antagonistic relationship between John Dutton and Rainwater.
(11:19):
In the first season, they're gonna butt heads. You know,
it's a little that's maybe the most archetypal conflict we
see is those two sort of butting heads. And then
it very quickly, season after season starts to get more complicated,
to get sort of richer and more personal, to get
(11:40):
less kind of mythic, to get less sort of you know,
cowboys and Indians clashing it very quickly, as you just described.
Sometimes your purposes aligne sometimes you feel a sort of
you know, I think over and over again, actually they've
found themselves allies against other you know, external antagonists. So
(12:01):
will you talk about because I personally find that the
relationship between John Dutton and Rainwater is kind of the
most one of the most complicated relationships on the show
because it's changed so many times from scene to scene.
Speaker 2 (12:16):
Yeah, it has, and from season to season. I think
the way I see Thomas is that he understands that
he's not going to be able to outfight John Dutton,
even though he has these pending forces trying to take
the land. But culturally speaking, I think I was just
reading John Trudell was a great Native poet, and it's
(12:41):
about thinking clearly and coherently using our intelligence. So we
I think Thomas is approaching it in terms of outthinking
the forces and not to You're not going to have
the I guess resources to go up against what John
Dutton has, But we can't make alliances to fight people
(13:01):
who are really wanting to just corporalize the land, you know,
to monetize it, and neither one of us want that.
Speaker 3 (13:10):
It's pretty fascinating, yeah.
Speaker 1 (13:12):
Because especially over time, you know, Rainwater's arsenal of weapons
has expanded too, like as the character of Mo deepens
and you start to sort of learn more about Moe's
sense of right and wrong, Moe's sort of specific code
of ethics. You know, we very quickly start to understand
(13:32):
John Dutton's Thomas Rainwaters early on, and then over time
we start to also see, Okay, Moe in some ways
pulls Rainwater one direction. A character like Angela Blue Thunder
in season three has a completely different sort of approach,
a different ideology. You know, it really represents this kind
of full spectrum of tactics and tools for protecting this land,
(13:58):
for protecting this sense of history.
Speaker 2 (14:02):
Yeah, it's it's quite dramatic, and of course that's all
laid out from Taylor's writing, but yeah, I would think
of it in terms of strategizing, is generally what Thomas
is doing.
Speaker 1 (14:13):
Yeah, he's got these different chess pieces, and there's certain
problems you solve with you know, you solved by sending
in Mo and Moe's gonna grab a guy, black bag him,
drag him out to the country, you know, pull him
behind a horse, beat the crap out of him. And
then it also was I was so excited in season
three that introduction of Angela Blue Thunder as this kind
of you know, you know, like sort of legal assassin,
(14:36):
a kind of Beth Dutton style, like sort of courtroom warrior.
I've been so interested in that sort of diversity of
tactics over time.
Speaker 2 (14:48):
Yeah, I think most background, you know, being educated in
the Ivy League schools is where he brings this strategy in,
this thought of paradigm of understanding how the white man's
work works, and that's what he's going to use to
try to reacquire the land.
Speaker 3 (15:05):
So it makes for a lot of different.
Speaker 2 (15:08):
Strategies or thoughts or approaches to how he's going to
accomplish those things.
Speaker 1 (15:13):
Yeah, I find that. And it also is just like
I think this is also the great gift of duration, right,
So as an actor, it's a tremendous gift to get
to do ten episodes of a television show. Here we are,
you know, going on, we've done forty. One of the
gifts of that is that over time, people change, you know,
(15:34):
people sort of people through experiences, through the passage of time,
through conflict, you know, like tectonic plates smashing into each other.
People change. So will you talk a little bit about
how Rainwater's different at the end of season four than
he was at the beginning of season one. Maybe he's not,
(15:55):
but will you talk about you know that that idea.
Speaker 2 (15:59):
Well, that's interesting because we've kind of incorporated Casey's healing ceremonies,
and I think that's a very interesting direction for Taylor
to take. And also because it's such an integral part
of the Dutton family, So we're having an individual healing
(16:20):
of a member of the family is very intricate to
the collective group, and I think that could be a
real pivotal point for how the expression from Casey comes
and the way he deals and sees things, and how
he might be influenced by those healings and the individual
change that he makes that may be going along with
(16:42):
the same way that we feel, or that Thomas feels
that this healing has to come for all of us
to have this clarity of thinking, to know what to do,
to know to do the right thing.
Speaker 1 (16:54):
That's so interesting, because yeah, it sometimes feels like Casey
and Monica are kind of stuck in between two worlds,
you know, and John Dutton has the way that he,
you know, heals with Casey or sort of encourages Casey
to learn and grow in certain ways. But you're totally
right that this season, and you know, Rainwater has been
(17:19):
very kind to Casey from the beginning, has sort of
been an ally to Casey, particularly because I think, you know,
he sees a sort of whether it's a friend, a
sort of mentee, or whether it's a strategic sort of opportunity.
There's things he can say to Casey that he can't
say to John Dutton that will make their way into
(17:41):
the family and sort of permeate, you know, permeate outwards.
That's so interesting. I hadn't thought about that, like Casey
as this kind of shared space between John Dutton and Rainwater.
Casey has this kind of common ground almost. That's a
fascinating image.
Speaker 3 (18:02):
Yeah, and Tay too takes going through the you know,
the boy.
Speaker 1 (18:07):
Yeah, Yeah, that's a really because it also I think
there is that that question of generational passage and also
generational trauma, generational sort of wounds that are explored, you know,
and especially in season four, as we start to see
flashbacks to Duttons from the past interacting with you know,
(18:30):
people who were here long before they were when they
first arrived in Montana, we start to see these kind
of generational relationships and you're it's, yeah, it's fascinating to
then project that into the future into Casey, this younger
generation and Tate even younger than that, and how these
sort of how conflict changes over time and continues to shift,
(18:55):
and how these like archetypal forces that clash, how that
clash continues to be complicated, you know, because yeah, maybe
in the end capitalism comes along and sweeps off every
other player on the board to a certain extent, Right,
you talk about these corporate interests, these billion dollar trust
funds or whatever it is, coming in and trying to
(19:18):
just excize everything else. That's a sort of fascinating. The
nature of the conflict is changed, you know.
Speaker 2 (19:27):
Yeah, I think you know in that healing process too,
you're connecting both more authentically, I think with the land,
which is the heart of the individual, of the human
being itself. So the way you see the world, the
decisions you make from that point on could it could
be very drastic.
Speaker 1 (19:45):
Yeah, and rainwater and doesn't have that in common. Right,
They see the land as they have a responsibility to
the land, They feel a sense of duty to the land.
They are stewards. They both see themselves as stewards of
this land, and that's you know, there is definitely compatibility there.
And then I think great writing is two people who
(20:05):
are you know, might agree under certain circumstances finding themselves
in a kind of mutually exclusive conflict or a conflict
that starts to feel like a zero sum game. You know,
they agree about so much, and then there are also
points where, you know, unfortunately they both can't you know,
take care of the land in the way that they
(20:27):
initially desire to.
Speaker 2 (20:29):
You know, well in the corporate world, though, John's not
going to be able to hold onto that land very
long anyway.
Speaker 3 (20:36):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (20:37):
Yeah, And the season four I think that is like
that clock has been ticking since season one, and the
fuse is really short. In season four, it feels like
they're just an inch away from the cataclysm of that loss,
and Rainwater is stuck in this position of trying, it
feels like, to position himself to continue to be a
(20:57):
protector of the land even if John Dutton is wiped out.
You know, you see Rainwater very smartly positioning himself to
be there no matter what happens to the Dutton ranch,
you know.
Speaker 2 (21:10):
Yeah, And interesting through the seasons, it's it was sometimes
alliances with some of the corporate interests we're trying to
come in, you know, on the smaller scale.
Speaker 1 (21:17):
Yeah, that's exactly right, you know, And it's exactly as
you said, it's sort of it's kind of outsmarting everybody,
playing your enemies against each other for the sake of,
you know, this tremendous responsibility, this responsibility to the land,
this a greater responsibility because you know, family is a
(21:37):
huge theme throughout Yellowstone. There are so many characters who
are defined by their relationship to family. And then I
think your character and this whole sort of side of
the story complicates that idea of family, Like it sort
of asks some questions about what is you know, what
is a family. It complicates that idea bed and the
(22:01):
very simple you know, mother, father, children, because John John
Dutton's idea of family is very literal, and it feels
like Rainwater's idea of family is much more sort of.
Speaker 3 (22:11):
Holistic, yeah, exactly and spiritual. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (22:15):
And the land as a kind of part of that family,
or a sort of responsibility to the land as a
part of the land, I think is fascinating. Yeah, those
two different ideas of family sort of colliding into each other. Yeah, Gil,
thank you so much for taking the time. It's such
a joy. I feel like I've been learning from you
(22:36):
as an actor for a long time because I mean
I've been a fan of your work for a long time,
and especially your your collaborations with Taylor since before I
met you. I loved your work in so thank you
for taking the time to talk to me about this stuff.
It's an honor.
Speaker 3 (22:53):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (22:54):
That's very that's very sweeter, Jeff, thank you. And I
wish we had more time on set. We just don't
do things together.
Speaker 1 (23:00):
I yeah, fingers crossed. There's gotta be a way well on.
Speaker 3 (23:05):
Our off time. But I don't know.
Speaker 2 (23:06):
And maybe it's kind of like when I'm working, you aren't,
and when you're working, I'm not.
Speaker 4 (23:10):
I think that's right.
Speaker 1 (23:10):
It's these funny little worlds. Sometimes it's a little compartmentalized. Yeah,
but hopefully down the line.
Speaker 3 (23:16):
All right, Well, it was wonderful talking with you. Thank
you so much.
Speaker 1 (23:19):
Thank you too, Gil, talk soon, take care. Thank you
again so much for being here with us today. I'm
going to take a breath, and when we come back,
we're gonna get right back into it. Okay, folks, Today
we're talking to Moe brings Plenty, who plays Mo Rainwaters
Driver on Yellowstone since since the very first episode.
Speaker 3 (23:39):
My dear friend Mo.
Speaker 1 (23:40):
Thanks for being here.
Speaker 4 (23:41):
Mo it's an honor to be here with you, Jeff.
Speaker 1 (23:46):
You've been on the show since the very beginning, since
episode one on one. So we're looking at four years.
Speaker 4 (23:50):
Now, yes, sir, we are, and it's it's quite remarkable
that I'm just I feel so blessed to be part
of such an amazing cast, an excellent show, a well
written show, and I just it's a dream come true.
(24:12):
It really is.
Speaker 1 (24:13):
I feel exactly the same way, man. Another one of
the huge gifts of a show like this is the
fact that we've gotten to do it for four years now.
It means we get to know each other, We get
to know the people working on the show, we get
to know the crew working on the show. So you
and I have known each other now for four years.
But we'll talk through some of this stuff like it's
(24:34):
for the first time, just for the sake of everybody
who hasn't had the honor of knowing you for four years.
So will you talk for a second just about your background,
sort of how you grew up, how you came to
be on Yellowstone. We just talk about that a little bit.
Speaker 4 (24:48):
I grew up, I was born and raised on a
Pinergen reservation in South Dakota. I'm traveling enrolled on the
Shine River Reservation, which is also another band or a
subgroup of the Great Lakota Nation. My father is Oglala
from Pine Ridge, and my mother she's Mini Kozu from
the Shining River Reservation. It's still a Kota and so
(25:12):
I grew up going to school rode horses a lot.
My dream when I was a kid was to be
I had several dreams. One of them was to be
a world champion bull rider that didn't last long. The
second was to be an Olympic runner. I wanted to
be another Billy Mills, but of course got into riding bulls,
(25:36):
so he's then hold up for running. But I also
wanted to be a math teacher, which is kind of crazy,
but I love math, and of course a fighter pilot
for the Marine Corps, which none of those never worked out.
But you know, I kind of live life in the moment,
and my grandfather always told me, when you wake up
(26:00):
in the morning, don't expect anything you should. You should
just be if you if you live your life with
the expectations, then you're gonna lose your understanding of how
to be grateful for the very first gift you've been given,
and that is life itself. And so I live in
(26:21):
a moment and and doing so it guided me along
the way. I just went with it.
Speaker 1 (26:28):
You know.
Speaker 4 (26:29):
It's like riding a horse with no reins. You just
hang on and go for the ride and enjoy it,
you know. And I ended up being on a Yellowstone
and I and I'm not sure how how it all
worked out for me to continue to be a reoccurring
character and how the character is now evolving, but I'm
(26:52):
just thankful that it did work God the way it has.
Speaker 1 (26:56):
It's such an incredible gift that the sort of curiosity
that you're just the ability to sort of stay in
the moment no matter what that moment brings you, has
also taught you so many skills. You are such an
expert horseman. Will you talk about that a little bit,
Your background with horses, how you started riding, how that
(27:18):
manifests in your life now, and the work you do
on your ranch, because you also live on a ten
thousand acre ranch, will you talk about that a little bit.
Speaker 4 (27:26):
Well, the horse thing, how it evolved was I didn't
want to have to walk so far because our closest
neighbor was a mile and a half away, and I
definitely didn't want to ride my bike on dirt road
because to ride a bike on a dirt road, that
dirt is probably the dust was probably by three four
(27:49):
inches thick, and so it's like riding through mud all
the time. And so I decided to start riding horses,
and at a very young age. Of course, my father
was instrumental in that. My uncles. One of my uncles
who was like a father to me. He was honestly
(28:10):
one of the most famous native saddle bronk riders in
the nation, and he's made it to the national finals
several times, and he was a huge inspiration in my life.
That guy was like he was totally like a horse whisper.
I remember one time my cousin and I came home
from school and there was a horse tied up in
(28:33):
the round pin, and so we flipped a coin to
see who I had to get on his horse first.
N one day tied up and he said she's pretty salty,
and of course I lost, and so I got on
horse dumped me in probably three jumps. Lucky there was
no duct tape around. And the second guy, my cousin,
(28:54):
he got on and he came off from my uncle.
He was pretty upset that we both got bucked off
with on a three legged horse, and so he dropped
the leg down, took the rope off, and he jumped
on that horse and he said, all right, opened up
the gate, and he took that horse out and he
was gone for hours, and he came back and did
she's good to go. And so I will never forget
(29:16):
that moment when the sun was already down, there was
a little bit of light left, and here he'd come
riding back and that horse looked like that horse. I mean,
it just looked like it's been ridden for years. And
so just the connection that he had with horses, it
made me think more and more about our culture and
what type of instrument or what role the horses played
(29:41):
within our culture. Because our culture we didn't we didn't create,
we didn't self create our cultural identity. There were many
aspects of nature that gave us a part of themselves,
that gave us our identity, and horses played a role
in that. And we've always had horses in the country,
you long before the Spanish brought theirs. And so to
(30:04):
revitalize and reconnect with the old way of the relationships
that that the horse had with our ancestors was what's
so important to me. You know, in fact, we have
a we have a direct descendant a horse that is
a direct descendant from City Bulls original herd of horses.
(30:27):
They are called the horses today.
Speaker 3 (30:30):
And so.
Speaker 4 (30:32):
The moment that I rode him, I wept. I'm not
gonna lie. I shed tears. I wept because I felt,
for the first time of my life, I felt like
there was a huge void that was now finally filled up,
you know, and it made me realize that his ancestors
(30:53):
carried my ancestors, and we were torn hard and now
here we are back together.
Speaker 3 (31:01):
That's beautiful. That's an incredible image.
Speaker 1 (31:04):
And you talk about it's kind of two different types
of heritage, right, there's big picture heritage. There's generations and
generations of culture that you've learned and you're an expert in.
And then you also talk about you know, your father,
your uncle's people, individuals who pass those lessons onto you.
So on the show, you know, how does that play
(31:25):
into your character and Moe's role on the show. You know,
Moe's role as one of Rainwater's sort of advisors and
trusted officials. How do you carry that tradition and that
heritage onto the show.
Speaker 4 (31:41):
Well, it's it's honestly just every bit of my own
experiences in life, you know, to try to maintain because
we are The relationship that Rainwater and mo has on
the show is very much many relationships that we have
in real life. There's a lot of people that were
removed from the reservations during the during the relocation program,
(32:07):
and whether it's the individuals themselves or their children or
their grandchildren that are now trying to find their way
back home and understand the struggles that they go through,
are the questions, the many questions that they have. We
want to be always, we always want to be available
(32:27):
for them, to be there to assist them and show them,
not guiding them, but show them the direction of where
they're going to find their answers, you know. And so
I bring that element of real life experiences onto the
show and I imply it to that particular character and
and like I said, to help build that relationship between
(32:49):
Rainwater and Moan, you know, to always be there to
have loyalty and also that compassion that we almost have
for especially for our relatives who've been removed.
Speaker 1 (33:03):
I think it's such an amazing that that's sort of
what you're talking about, is carrying your own personal experience
and also this tradition and this heritage that you carry
with you onto the show. And I feel like, truly
from the first frame of the show that you appeared in,
Moe had such complexity and so much depth and history,
(33:25):
and the sort of presence that you carry with you
even when you're not speaking in a scene, even when
you're sort of a kind of silent counselor the looks
that rainwater gives to you, and sort of how much
you say without saying anything is such an incredible gift.
I also think it's amazing you've.
Speaker 3 (33:47):
Learned so much.
Speaker 1 (33:48):
You're such an expert in your own culture and your
own heritage, but you're also such an incredible learner. You
and I we spend some time together cutting, you know,
doing cutting, which was something that was relatively new to you, right, Like,
how much cutting have you done in your life?
Speaker 3 (34:05):
Not much? Not much?
Speaker 1 (34:07):
And what's amazing to me is that you can at
both you can at the same time be such an
expert have done this. It carries so much wisdom and
knowledge with you and also be so open to new experiences,
be so open to learning new things. So is there
anything on Yellowstone that the process of working on Yellowstone
has taught you, or anything that you're particularly interested in
(34:30):
diving deeper into that you've learned about over the course
of the show.
Speaker 4 (34:34):
You know, there's many aspects to the show that has
intrigued me. And I would say I love watching the crew.
Every every department within the crew is so important, and
you see all these moving parts, how they're able to function.
(34:55):
It's like watching a herd of buffalo move and every
single one of them are important. And I look at
the camera work and how they set up shots, and
I look at just not what Taylor has written, but
what he also has visualized and through a little screen,
and how he's able to allow us and give us
(35:18):
the room and of the space to bring to life
what he has put down laid down on a piece
of paper. And so I'm I would love to be
able to just sit for a whole season behind him
and watch how every single one of them that direct
(35:38):
you know rather it's Stephen k I mean all of them,
and just watch it. That's so amazing to be able
to capture a spirit into a lens through great camera work,
and to be able to direct not even just I mean,
I just look every aspect of it is so amazing
to me, and it just intrigued, All of it intriguing,
(36:00):
and I'm always open to learning. You can never you
can never allow yourself to think that you're a professional
at anything. For me, And so I see myself as
like this sponge that I'm just always hunger for knowledge,
and it don't matter. It's not just about my people's tradition,
(36:22):
but I'm I hunger for the knowledge of the society
as well. So I but know how to be able
to coexist and a compassionate and a loving way, and
a respectful way, and respectful to my culture, respectful to society,
to all people, and so to When I'm on a set,
(36:45):
I see how everything moves, and we're all in this
together at the end of the day, we all play
an important role. And so I'm just I love I
love being there, I love watching everyone work. I love
how you work. I mean, in fact, we was just
talking the other day. It's Sarah and they found a
calf that was it was poor and rain, it was cold,
(37:08):
and and they found this calf, and she remembered that
scene where you went back and you was you was
saving this calf. So we had a good guy s
little laugh about that. You know, Jimmy saved the calf.
Speaker 1 (37:21):
Oh yeah, except you guys did it for real and
a team of experts propped me up on a horse.
That was one of the funniest days, MO, because that
was the only time I've ever seen the stunt team nervous.
The only time I've ever seen those guys nervous was
when they had to let go of the calf and
(37:43):
walk away from me very slowly. I was looking at
them like, guys, I if you're worried, I'm worried, well
then I'm so. It's funny because you that quality you
describe of being a sponge, you know, of being o
been to learning and sort of observing and picking up
things from There's so much on films on a film
(38:04):
set that's about trust, that's about trusting everyone else to
do their job, sort of putting faith in everyone else
and sort of being able to then focus on your
own responsibilities without trying to micro manage everybody else. And
you're somebody who I have learned so much from in
so many ways, often just from watching you, because I
(38:25):
learned how to ride for Yellowstone. You know, I had
never touched a horse in my life before Season one
a Yellowstone, And you're somebody who, from the very beginning
sort of watching you ride has taught me so many
little things, kind of unspoken things, you know, because you're
such an expert in both the kind of spoken understanding
(38:46):
of this stuff, but also just the little things like
watching you ride has been such a sort of masterclass
in the unspoken rules and tricks to riding, which is relaxing,
going with the flow, even the way you describe living
your life, you know, going with the flow and living
in the moment. When I first started writing, I was
so tense. I was trying to do things right. I
(39:07):
was so sort of caught up in where my hands
were supposed to go and like doing it exactly the
right way. And I've been learning from you for four
years now how to chill out, how to relax a
little bit, have fun, how to sort of stay in
the moment and have fun because you sort of you
also have such a sort of breadth of knowledge on
(39:28):
so many different subjects. I think a lot of what
people respond to with Yellowstone is the feeling of authenticity,
you know, this this feeling that it's a world that
is really lived in. And you're somebody who brings so
much natural, easy authenticity to the show, but across so
many different fields, because you also have experienced in rodeo.
(39:50):
So will you talk a little bit about your your
history bull riding, bronc riding.
Speaker 4 (39:56):
Yeah, Like I said, I wanted to one of my uncles.
He yet my dad's brother, older brother. He used to
ride saddle wrong courses and of course he lost his
life while competing. Of course came over backwards on him.
And and there's no one else in our family that
(40:17):
that wanted to take that next step in that realm.
And I think I was just crazy enough to be
the one to say, you know, I'll do it, and
and so I write, I wrote bare back courses, and
I tried saddle wrong, but I was horrible because of
(40:37):
my thought process of everything. I was so scared and
nervous of it. And I rode bulls and and then
eventually I got scared of the bare back courses as well,
and I just decided to stick right with riding bulls,
they weren't scary for me. But outside of that, yeah,
you can get a horse we can't get. If we
(40:58):
can't get a settle on it, I'll get on it.
I didn't care when I was younger, when I was
a kid, if we didn't get a rope on the halt,
get a halter on the horse, I'll jump on that
horse forair back. I didn't care. But when it came
to rodeos, because those horses are bred differently and they
know their job. Where a ranch horse or or a
(41:18):
horse on a reservation, it's different, you know. And so
some of them bucked pretty good, and some of them
bucked extremely hard, and some of them really didn't buck
at all. And so I was just crazy. I was
just crazy enough to do whatever. I even rode a
buffalo once, and I couldn't believe I did myself after it.
(41:41):
But before that, my cousins they said, oh, you're too
scared to do it, and I was like, no, let's
do it. And so I jumped on and I held on.
I had a death grip. I think my toenails grew
real fast too, and I latched on my toenails like
a cat, and the buffalo stopped and it starts shaking,
and I I started shaking because I didn't know how
(42:01):
I was going to get off, because I know they're
super fast. But I jumped off anyway, and I took
off running, and it just stood there and watched me,
and I was like, thank you for not chasing me.
So I could say I wrote a buffalo once, but
I wouldn't really, honestly, Jefferson, I wouldn't really consider myself
an expert at many things, just for the fact that
(42:25):
what I've learned it came from people who were honestly
out of this world for me, even like Cole Paul Ferman,
who's one of the Wranglers. He's a good friend of mine.
I consider him a brother. And I watch that guy
right too, and I'm like you, I watch everyone right,
(42:46):
and I'm still learning things still. I'm always a student.
I always want to be a student. The day I
stopped being a student is the day that life's done
and over with, I'm sure, but I don't ever want
to see that yet. I'm always going to remain being
a student. So for me, I just I pick up
I pick up things by being a sponge. I'm able
(43:07):
to pick up things and I'll fight something. Some things
work and some things don't. There was some things that
my uncle did that were absolutely amazing, and I tried it.
It didn't work for me. And there were some things
that he did do that did work for me and
I and I held on to those things. And so
there's one thing that my grandfather he did teach me.
He said that when you work with a horse, never
(43:30):
never see what you can make that horse do your
whole your whole day should be spent on seeing what
you can both accomplish together. And and so I try
to carry that mentality with everything that I but that
I do. You know, I want to see what we
can accomplish together.
Speaker 1 (43:48):
I think we're I think we're coming to the end
of our time here. Is there anything else you'd like
to say, anybody else you'd like to shout out?
Speaker 3 (43:55):
Man?
Speaker 4 (43:55):
Just you know, it's always good to see you. It's
good to always see you. Guys have family members, I
mean really, you know, we're just one big family. And
I'm looking forward to getting back at it. I'm totally
excited for this new season to come out. I know
all my neighbors are pretty amped up for November seventh,
and but anyway, it's just man, I just want to
(44:18):
say thank you, thank you for including me and taking
the time to allow me to be a part of
you know, your new adventure. And I'm looking at good
luck to you. I know it's not you don't need
it because you you're so talented.
Speaker 1 (44:33):
Jim.
Speaker 3 (44:34):
Thanks mo.
Speaker 4 (44:34):
I appreciate it, man.
Speaker 1 (44:35):
Thank you for taking the time to do this, and
We've got a lot of adventures ahead of us. I'm
really excited you man.
Speaker 4 (44:41):
And I always ruggle with that too, Jefferson. I was like, Jimmy,
I mean, Jefferson, no one has that problem with me
because I'm mold exactly.
Speaker 1 (44:50):
That makes it easy.
Speaker 4 (44:51):
That makes it easy. So man, keep up the great
work you're you are. It's good you're sharing your talent
with the world. You got to great gift there.
Speaker 1 (45:00):
Thanks brother, Take care of the rest and I'll see
you really soon.
Speaker 4 (45:03):
Okay, thank you, Yeah, sounds good, brother, We'll be in time.
Here's me take care by now.
Speaker 1 (45:11):
Thank you all so much for tuning in. I obviously
would not be able to do this without you. If
it wasn't for you, I wouldn't be in this big,
beautiful podcast studio in the Win, Las Vegas. So thank
you so much for tuning in. It really it means
the world to me. We drop new episodes every Thursday,
so make sure to subscribe and tune in to the
(45:31):
Official Yellowstone Podcast on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, wherever you get
your podcasts. The Official Yellowstone Podcast is hosted by me
Jefferson White and produced by One on one Podcast Studios
in Paramount Network
Hey y'all. Once again, welcome back to the Official Yellowstone Podcast,
presented by Win Las Vegas. I'm Jefferson White, your guide
on this journey, this journey into the world of Yellowstone.
I'm coming to you again from the podcast studio here
at WIN Las Vegas. Don't worry. They haven't been holding
me hostage. I've actually it's kind of the opposite. I've
been camping out here. They've been trying to get rid
(00:28):
of me, but I got a sleeping bag in a
mini bar. I'm set. I've been here a few times
over the last month, and every time I wind up
finding a new thing that I love about this place.
So one of the incredible gifts of working on Yellowstone
for me has been getting to learn more about the
various cultures and communities that the show represents. I'm new
to cattle ranching, as you well know, I'm new to
(00:49):
the rodeo world. And I also, I have to say,
I've been very, very ignorant and naive when it comes
to Native American culture and the issues that face contemporary
Native American culture. I am so so grateful for our
next guests today. I am honored to chat with two
people that obviously do an incredible job at representing their
(01:10):
culture on this show, none other than chairman Thomas Rainwater.
That's Gil Birmingham and his badass driver slash bodyguard Mo
Brenks Plenty. I'm gonna step aside for a moment and
then we're going to dive right in. Okay, amazing. I
feel so lucky, so grateful to have with me today
Gil Birmingham, who plays Thomas Rainwater. Gil, thank you so
(01:30):
so much for taking the time.
Speaker 2 (01:32):
Oh, it's a real pleasure to be able to sit
here and chat with you, Jeff.
Speaker 3 (01:36):
I haven't seen you for a while.
Speaker 1 (01:37):
I know. What a gift. That's one of the amazing
One of the most fun things about this podcast has
been the opportunity to sit down between seasons when we
haven't seen each other for months. But it sounds like
you've been incredibly busy in the interim.
Speaker 3 (01:50):
I have.
Speaker 2 (01:50):
I have, I've been I don't think I've traveled more
or socialized more since this whole COVID thing went down,
but of course following all the protocols. But it's nice
to be back in the grand us of a.
Speaker 1 (02:01):
Yeah, I was gonna say you so. Folks at home
know you from many roles. Folks at home know you
from a long career of incredible highlights. Will you just
take a second, at your own pace, at your own length,
just describe everything that brought you up to Yellowstone.
Speaker 2 (02:19):
Yeah, that's always fascinating for me. I think it happened
after I got out of college and I got involved
in bodybuilding. I think a lot of fans are pretty
pretty familiar with that already. But I got scouted into
the gym to participate in the music video with Diana Ross,
and I loved beyond set and my girlfriend at the
(02:41):
time said, do you know, why don't you Why don't
you start taking classes? And I did, and that's kind
of where it started. But I don't know that I
took it as seriously the craft itself, until I started
doing projects that were more representational for the Native community,
and then I really understood the responsibility of it. So yeah,
(03:03):
I've been I've been very blessed with a varied career
and leading up to Yellowstone, there's well, of course, I
encountered Taylor, you know, back in twenty seventeen, twenty sixteen
with Hell or High.
Speaker 3 (03:14):
Water, and then he brought me in on wind River.
Speaker 2 (03:17):
So that relationship started some five years ago, which I
feel so so grateful for and very blessed by, and
has led itself into Yellowstone.
Speaker 3 (03:28):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (03:28):
What a gift to work with the same director writer
for an extended period of time. I guess it's a
rare gift. As an actor, you know, you sort of
jump from project to project. It's a kind of it
can feel like a sort of freelance mercenary lifestyle, but
the opportunity to settle in with a collaborator over time
(03:49):
feels like such a rare opportunity. So will you just
talk about how you first met Taylor, how you sort
of what brought about the beginning of the collaboration that
had sense matured into into where you find yourself now.
Speaker 2 (04:04):
Well, it definitely started with hell or high Water, and
as you were describing, it is really kind of a life,
the circus lifestyle, and that project had so many interesting
elements to it. We had Chris Pine, who only had
a two week window to film before he went off
I think to Wonder Wonder Woman, and so it came
(04:25):
together so fast, I think within the course of like
five weeks, and we had to get everything lined up
and then we shot for five weeks. But but the project,
you know, really highlighted, you know, even beyond Sacario with Taylor,
and that's when I became, uh, you know, I came
to understand Taylor in the way he writes. And then
I was so so thrilled to be brought back on
(04:49):
Whin River, another incredible project. And yeah, I think most
of our collaboratings come at a time in filming Yellowstone
because we have a little more time we have or
episodes we have a longer duration, and after four years,
I think Taylor is just so so specific about the
(05:10):
actors that he cast, and he lets them do.
Speaker 3 (05:13):
The work he does. He does a layout, he does
the writing, and he trusts his actors.
Speaker 1 (05:18):
What I find really interesting about that is that, Yeah,
Taylor has a lot of collaborators that he works with
on project after project, and a lot of those I
think you're totally right that he sees people's energies and
he brings in I think he's amazing at casting. Something
interesting about the roles that you've played for Taylor is
they're all quite different. They all sort of fell quite
(05:39):
different positions in the story. Does that feel true to you?
Speaker 2 (05:44):
Yeah, you know, I think I think when you're in
the project, when you're doing it, that's all. That's the
world you live in. And now that you mentioned it,
that's that's pretty interesting. They are very different. And I
think when River scared scared the hell out of me
when Taylor called me up about it, and I said, oh, yeah,
that's that's really incredible writing. I like to do Graham
(06:06):
the police officer, the tribal police officer, And he said, Nope,
you're not doing that one.
Speaker 3 (06:11):
You're doing this one. And I think it was because.
Speaker 2 (06:15):
Just the heartbreak of the subject matter and feeling that
that was the way that I would have to take
on and and I wanted to represent it in the
best possible way. And he just had trust, and he
had more trust in me than.
Speaker 3 (06:29):
I had in me.
Speaker 2 (06:30):
And from that point on, I said, whatever it is
you want Daylor, you think I can do it, then
I can do it.
Speaker 3 (06:37):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (06:37):
I think that's incredible because especially you know the idea
of representation. So in Hell or high Water, you played
a police officer. In wind River, you played a man
living on a reservation sort of struggling from a sort
of different part of the socioeconomic spectrum, and then in
Yellowstone you play somebody on the opposite side of the
socioeconomic spectrum, somebody who has had, you know, the bin
(07:00):
fit of wealth and finds themselves in a position of
status and authority. I think that's a fascinating It really
shows a whole spectrum of experiences. Because you talked earlier
about feeling a sense of responsibility to tell these stories,
to tell you know, Native indigenous stories, and those three
different roles represent three completely different experiences. So will you
(07:22):
talk a little bit about the sort of breadth of
experiences that you've had the opportunity to step into.
Speaker 3 (07:31):
Wow, that's a really you have the good questions here, Jeff.
Speaker 1 (07:35):
Oh, thanks, Gil.
Speaker 2 (07:37):
That's what I've heard about you, and now I believe it. Gosh,
I don't know. You're so intertwined with the character at
the time you do it and then you kind of
release it so to reflect back on it. But you're right,
and it has so much to do with the dynamics
of the other actors that you're working with as well.
Speaker 3 (07:53):
Jeff Bridges was incredible.
Speaker 2 (07:55):
You know, Jeremy Renner, which is primarily who I did
my scenes with, and when River Kevin Costner Happy Birthday,
Kevin on Yellowstone.
Speaker 3 (08:08):
So they're all.
Speaker 2 (08:09):
Iconic performers and to bring your own game to it
and the context of the representation is.
Speaker 3 (08:18):
I don't know what would I say about that. I
don't know.
Speaker 2 (08:23):
It's it just feels like you have to get to
the heart, the heart of the character and the connection
that he has to his people.
Speaker 3 (08:30):
Maybe not so much.
Speaker 2 (08:31):
On Hell or High Water, but definitely when River and
definitely in Yellowstone. So that's that's a bigger breath in
terms of the representation. So yeah, I learned something all
the time. And then dealing with subject matter like we've
did in season two, I think with the missing and
murdered Indigenous women, you know, these are powerful subject matters
(08:52):
to write about and to represent. I just feels like
a responsibility. I guess that's a keyword I would I
would say I feel about it.
Speaker 1 (09:02):
And that's an interesting synergy between you, the actor, and
the character because it certainly feels like Thomas Rainwater is
also bound by a sense of responsibility, by a sense
of duty to his history, to his people. It really
feels like the character also carries a tremendous amount of
(09:25):
responsibility on his shoulders. Do you feel does that make
does that sort of resonate with your experience of it?
Speaker 3 (09:32):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (09:32):
And you know, and that's in the context of contemporary
time where these these corporate forces are coming in and
and John and Rainwater actually have a similar though not
identical respect for the land and a purpose for for
wanting to keep it. It's more of a legacy something
that that's come down through the family for John. But
(09:55):
it's really where the power of my people resigne in
the connection with the land. So that might be the
only difference, but it's a crucial difference.
Speaker 3 (10:08):
But yeah, it's it's pretty daunting sometimes.
Speaker 1 (10:14):
It's Yeah, and it feels like the character is often
I mean, I just I'm always interested where you know,
the experience of an actor in real life resonates with
the experience of a character in a project. You know.
It's like, you can call that a lot of different names,
people call it a lot of different things. I'm always
just sort of curious about it because I feel like
it adds a layer to the performance that like deepens,
(10:39):
deepens a character. You know, when we look at Rainwater
and he's experiencing the weight of responsibility, that is deepened
and enriched by the fact that you the actor are,
to a certain extent feeling the weight of responsibility that
you're describing. I'm always just sort of curious about that.
(10:59):
And it also feels like, you know, as you just
mentioned Yellowstone, I think in so many interesting ways, kind
of complicates these archetypal narratives. You know, in the first season,
there's this you know, just direct kind of setup of
and you know, an antagonistic relationship between John Dutton and Rainwater.
(11:19):
In the first season, they're gonna butt heads. You know,
it's a little that's maybe the most archetypal conflict we
see is those two sort of butting heads. And then
it very quickly, season after season starts to get more complicated,
to get sort of richer and more personal, to get
(11:40):
less kind of mythic, to get less sort of you know,
cowboys and Indians clashing it very quickly, as you just described.
Sometimes your purposes aligne sometimes you feel a sort of
you know, I think over and over again, actually they've
found themselves allies against other you know, external antagonists. So
(12:01):
will you talk about because I personally find that the
relationship between John Dutton and Rainwater is kind of the
most one of the most complicated relationships on the show
because it's changed so many times from scene to scene.
Speaker 2 (12:16):
Yeah, it has, and from season to season. I think
the way I see Thomas is that he understands that
he's not going to be able to outfight John Dutton,
even though he has these pending forces trying to take
the land. But culturally speaking, I think I was just
reading John Trudell was a great Native poet, and it's
(12:41):
about thinking clearly and coherently using our intelligence. So we
I think Thomas is approaching it in terms of outthinking
the forces and not to You're not going to have
the I guess resources to go up against what John
Dutton has, But we can't make alliances to fight people
(13:01):
who are really wanting to just corporalize the land, you know,
to monetize it, and neither one of us want that.
Speaker 3 (13:10):
It's pretty fascinating, yeah.
Speaker 1 (13:12):
Because especially over time, you know, Rainwater's arsenal of weapons
has expanded too, like as the character of Mo deepens
and you start to sort of learn more about Moe's
sense of right and wrong, Moe's sort of specific code
of ethics. You know, we very quickly start to understand
(13:32):
John Dutton's Thomas Rainwaters early on, and then over time
we start to also see, Okay, Moe in some ways
pulls Rainwater one direction. A character like Angela Blue Thunder
in season three has a completely different sort of approach,
a different ideology. You know, it really represents this kind
of full spectrum of tactics and tools for protecting this land,
(13:58):
for protecting this sense of history.
Speaker 2 (14:02):
Yeah, it's it's quite dramatic, and of course that's all
laid out from Taylor's writing, but yeah, I would think
of it in terms of strategizing, is generally what Thomas
is doing.
Speaker 1 (14:13):
Yeah, he's got these different chess pieces, and there's certain
problems you solve with you know, you solved by sending
in Mo and Moe's gonna grab a guy, black bag him,
drag him out to the country, you know, pull him
behind a horse, beat the crap out of him. And
then it also was I was so excited in season
three that introduction of Angela Blue Thunder as this kind
of you know, you know, like sort of legal assassin,
(14:36):
a kind of Beth Dutton style, like sort of courtroom warrior.
I've been so interested in that sort of diversity of
tactics over time.
Speaker 2 (14:48):
Yeah, I think most background, you know, being educated in
the Ivy League schools is where he brings this strategy in,
this thought of paradigm of understanding how the white man's
work works, and that's what he's going to use to
try to reacquire the land.
Speaker 3 (15:05):
So it makes for a lot of different.
Speaker 2 (15:08):
Strategies or thoughts or approaches to how he's going to
accomplish those things.
Speaker 1 (15:13):
Yeah, I find that. And it also is just like
I think this is also the great gift of duration, right,
So as an actor, it's a tremendous gift to get
to do ten episodes of a television show. Here we are,
you know, going on, we've done forty. One of the
gifts of that is that over time, people change, you know,
(15:34):
people sort of people through experiences, through the passage of time,
through conflict, you know, like tectonic plates smashing into each other.
People change. So will you talk a little bit about
how Rainwater's different at the end of season four than
he was at the beginning of season one. Maybe he's not,
(15:55):
but will you talk about you know that that idea.
Speaker 2 (15:59):
Well, that's interesting because we've kind of incorporated Casey's healing ceremonies,
and I think that's a very interesting direction for Taylor
to take. And also because it's such an integral part
of the Dutton family, So we're having an individual healing
(16:20):
of a member of the family is very intricate to
the collective group, and I think that could be a
real pivotal point for how the expression from Casey comes
and the way he deals and sees things, and how
he might be influenced by those healings and the individual
change that he makes that may be going along with
(16:42):
the same way that we feel, or that Thomas feels
that this healing has to come for all of us
to have this clarity of thinking, to know what to do,
to know to do the right thing.
Speaker 1 (16:54):
That's so interesting, because yeah, it sometimes feels like Casey
and Monica are kind of stuck in between two worlds,
you know, and John Dutton has the way that he,
you know, heals with Casey or sort of encourages Casey
to learn and grow in certain ways. But you're totally
right that this season, and you know, Rainwater has been
(17:19):
very kind to Casey from the beginning, has sort of
been an ally to Casey, particularly because I think, you know,
he sees a sort of whether it's a friend, a
sort of mentee, or whether it's a strategic sort of opportunity.
There's things he can say to Casey that he can't
say to John Dutton that will make their way into
(17:41):
the family and sort of permeate, you know, permeate outwards.
That's so interesting. I hadn't thought about that, like Casey
as this kind of shared space between John Dutton and Rainwater.
Casey has this kind of common ground almost. That's a
fascinating image.
Speaker 3 (18:02):
Yeah, and Tay too takes going through the you know,
the boy.
Speaker 1 (18:07):
Yeah, Yeah, that's a really because it also I think
there is that that question of generational passage and also
generational trauma, generational sort of wounds that are explored, you know,
and especially in season four, as we start to see
flashbacks to Duttons from the past interacting with you know,
(18:30):
people who were here long before they were when they
first arrived in Montana, we start to see these kind
of generational relationships and you're it's, yeah, it's fascinating to
then project that into the future into Casey, this younger
generation and Tate even younger than that, and how these
sort of how conflict changes over time and continues to shift,
(18:55):
and how these like archetypal forces that clash, how that
clash continues to be complicated, you know, because yeah, maybe
in the end capitalism comes along and sweeps off every
other player on the board to a certain extent, Right,
you talk about these corporate interests, these billion dollar trust
funds or whatever it is, coming in and trying to
(19:18):
just excize everything else. That's a sort of fascinating. The
nature of the conflict is changed, you know.
Speaker 2 (19:27):
Yeah, I think you know in that healing process too,
you're connecting both more authentically, I think with the land,
which is the heart of the individual, of the human
being itself. So the way you see the world, the
decisions you make from that point on could it could
be very drastic.
Speaker 1 (19:45):
Yeah, and rainwater and doesn't have that in common. Right,
They see the land as they have a responsibility to
the land, They feel a sense of duty to the land.
They are stewards. They both see themselves as stewards of
this land, and that's you know, there is definitely compatibility there.
And then I think great writing is two people who
(20:05):
are you know, might agree under certain circumstances finding themselves
in a kind of mutually exclusive conflict or a conflict
that starts to feel like a zero sum game. You know,
they agree about so much, and then there are also
points where, you know, unfortunately they both can't you know,
take care of the land in the way that they
(20:27):
initially desire to.
Speaker 2 (20:29):
You know, well in the corporate world, though, John's not
going to be able to hold onto that land very
long anyway.
Speaker 3 (20:36):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (20:37):
Yeah, And the season four I think that is like
that clock has been ticking since season one, and the
fuse is really short. In season four, it feels like
they're just an inch away from the cataclysm of that loss,
and Rainwater is stuck in this position of trying, it
feels like, to position himself to continue to be a
(20:57):
protector of the land even if John Dutton is wiped out.
You know, you see Rainwater very smartly positioning himself to
be there no matter what happens to the Dutton ranch,
you know.
Speaker 2 (21:10):
Yeah, And interesting through the seasons, it's it was sometimes
alliances with some of the corporate interests we're trying to
come in, you know, on the smaller scale.
Speaker 1 (21:17):
Yeah, that's exactly right, you know, And it's exactly as
you said, it's sort of it's kind of outsmarting everybody,
playing your enemies against each other for the sake of,
you know, this tremendous responsibility, this responsibility to the land,
this a greater responsibility because you know, family is a
(21:37):
huge theme throughout Yellowstone. There are so many characters who
are defined by their relationship to family. And then I
think your character and this whole sort of side of
the story complicates that idea of family, Like it sort
of asks some questions about what is you know, what
is a family. It complicates that idea bed and the
(22:01):
very simple you know, mother, father, children, because John John
Dutton's idea of family is very literal, and it feels
like Rainwater's idea of family is much more sort of.
Speaker 3 (22:11):
Holistic, yeah, exactly and spiritual. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (22:15):
And the land as a kind of part of that family,
or a sort of responsibility to the land as a
part of the land, I think is fascinating. Yeah, those
two different ideas of family sort of colliding into each other. Yeah, Gil,
thank you so much for taking the time. It's such
a joy. I feel like I've been learning from you
(22:36):
as an actor for a long time because I mean
I've been a fan of your work for a long time,
and especially your your collaborations with Taylor since before I
met you. I loved your work in so thank you
for taking the time to talk to me about this stuff.
It's an honor.
Speaker 3 (22:53):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (22:54):
That's very that's very sweeter, Jeff, thank you. And I
wish we had more time on set. We just don't
do things together.
Speaker 1 (23:00):
I yeah, fingers crossed. There's gotta be a way well on.
Speaker 3 (23:05):
Our off time. But I don't know.
Speaker 2 (23:06):
And maybe it's kind of like when I'm working, you aren't,
and when you're working, I'm not.
Speaker 4 (23:10):
I think that's right.
Speaker 1 (23:10):
It's these funny little worlds. Sometimes it's a little compartmentalized. Yeah,
but hopefully down the line.
Speaker 3 (23:16):
All right, Well, it was wonderful talking with you. Thank
you so much.
Speaker 1 (23:19):
Thank you too, Gil, talk soon, take care. Thank you
again so much for being here with us today. I'm
going to take a breath, and when we come back,
we're gonna get right back into it. Okay, folks, Today
we're talking to Moe brings Plenty, who plays Mo Rainwaters
Driver on Yellowstone since since the very first episode.
Speaker 3 (23:39):
My dear friend Mo.
Speaker 1 (23:40):
Thanks for being here.
Speaker 4 (23:41):
Mo it's an honor to be here with you, Jeff.
Speaker 1 (23:46):
You've been on the show since the very beginning, since
episode one on one. So we're looking at four years.
Speaker 4 (23:50):
Now, yes, sir, we are, and it's it's quite remarkable
that I'm just I feel so blessed to be part
of such an amazing cast, an excellent show, a well
written show, and I just it's a dream come true.
(24:12):
It really is.
Speaker 1 (24:13):
I feel exactly the same way, man. Another one of
the huge gifts of a show like this is the
fact that we've gotten to do it for four years now.
It means we get to know each other, We get
to know the people working on the show, we get
to know the crew working on the show. So you
and I have known each other now for four years.
But we'll talk through some of this stuff like it's
(24:34):
for the first time, just for the sake of everybody
who hasn't had the honor of knowing you for four years.
So will you talk for a second just about your background,
sort of how you grew up, how you came to
be on Yellowstone. We just talk about that a little bit.
Speaker 4 (24:48):
I grew up, I was born and raised on a
Pinergen reservation in South Dakota. I'm traveling enrolled on the
Shine River Reservation, which is also another band or a
subgroup of the Great Lakota Nation. My father is Oglala
from Pine Ridge, and my mother she's Mini Kozu from
the Shining River Reservation. It's still a Kota and so
(25:12):
I grew up going to school rode horses a lot.
My dream when I was a kid was to be
I had several dreams. One of them was to be
a world champion bull rider that didn't last long. The
second was to be an Olympic runner. I wanted to
be another Billy Mills, but of course got into riding bulls,
(25:36):
so he's then hold up for running. But I also
wanted to be a math teacher, which is kind of crazy,
but I love math, and of course a fighter pilot
for the Marine Corps, which none of those never worked out.
But you know, I kind of live life in the moment,
and my grandfather always told me, when you wake up
(26:00):
in the morning, don't expect anything you should. You should
just be if you if you live your life with
the expectations, then you're gonna lose your understanding of how
to be grateful for the very first gift you've been given,
and that is life itself. And so I live in
(26:21):
a moment and and doing so it guided me along
the way. I just went with it.
Speaker 1 (26:28):
You know.
Speaker 4 (26:29):
It's like riding a horse with no reins. You just
hang on and go for the ride and enjoy it,
you know. And I ended up being on a Yellowstone
and I and I'm not sure how how it all
worked out for me to continue to be a reoccurring
character and how the character is now evolving, but I'm
(26:52):
just thankful that it did work God the way it has.
Speaker 1 (26:56):
It's such an incredible gift that the sort of curiosity
that you're just the ability to sort of stay in
the moment no matter what that moment brings you, has
also taught you so many skills. You are such an
expert horseman. Will you talk about that a little bit,
Your background with horses, how you started riding, how that
(27:18):
manifests in your life now, and the work you do
on your ranch, because you also live on a ten
thousand acre ranch, will you talk about that a little bit.
Speaker 4 (27:26):
Well, the horse thing, how it evolved was I didn't
want to have to walk so far because our closest
neighbor was a mile and a half away, and I
definitely didn't want to ride my bike on dirt road
because to ride a bike on a dirt road, that
dirt is probably the dust was probably by three four
(27:49):
inches thick, and so it's like riding through mud all
the time. And so I decided to start riding horses,
and at a very young age. Of course, my father
was instrumental in that. My uncles. One of my uncles
who was like a father to me. He was honestly
(28:10):
one of the most famous native saddle bronk riders in
the nation, and he's made it to the national finals
several times, and he was a huge inspiration in my life.
That guy was like he was totally like a horse whisper.
I remember one time my cousin and I came home
from school and there was a horse tied up in
(28:33):
the round pin, and so we flipped a coin to
see who I had to get on his horse first.
N one day tied up and he said she's pretty salty,
and of course I lost, and so I got on
horse dumped me in probably three jumps. Lucky there was
no duct tape around. And the second guy, my cousin,
(28:54):
he got on and he came off from my uncle.
He was pretty upset that we both got bucked off
with on a three legged horse, and so he dropped
the leg down, took the rope off, and he jumped
on that horse and he said, all right, opened up
the gate, and he took that horse out and he
was gone for hours, and he came back and did
she's good to go. And so I will never forget
(29:16):
that moment when the sun was already down, there was
a little bit of light left, and here he'd come
riding back and that horse looked like that horse. I mean,
it just looked like it's been ridden for years. And
so just the connection that he had with horses, it
made me think more and more about our culture and
what type of instrument or what role the horses played
(29:41):
within our culture. Because our culture we didn't we didn't create,
we didn't self create our cultural identity. There were many
aspects of nature that gave us a part of themselves,
that gave us our identity, and horses played a role
in that. And we've always had horses in the country,
you long before the Spanish brought theirs. And so to
(30:04):
revitalize and reconnect with the old way of the relationships
that that the horse had with our ancestors was what's
so important to me. You know, in fact, we have
a we have a direct descendant a horse that is
a direct descendant from City Bulls original herd of horses.
(30:27):
They are called the horses today.
Speaker 3 (30:30):
And so.
Speaker 4 (30:32):
The moment that I rode him, I wept. I'm not
gonna lie. I shed tears. I wept because I felt,
for the first time of my life, I felt like
there was a huge void that was now finally filled up,
you know, and it made me realize that his ancestors
(30:53):
carried my ancestors, and we were torn hard and now
here we are back together.
Speaker 3 (31:01):
That's beautiful. That's an incredible image.
Speaker 1 (31:04):
And you talk about it's kind of two different types
of heritage, right, there's big picture heritage. There's generations and
generations of culture that you've learned and you're an expert in.
And then you also talk about you know, your father,
your uncle's people, individuals who pass those lessons onto you.
So on the show, you know, how does that play
(31:25):
into your character and Moe's role on the show. You know,
Moe's role as one of Rainwater's sort of advisors and
trusted officials. How do you carry that tradition and that
heritage onto the show.
Speaker 4 (31:41):
Well, it's it's honestly just every bit of my own
experiences in life, you know, to try to maintain because
we are The relationship that Rainwater and mo has on
the show is very much many relationships that we have
in real life. There's a lot of people that were
removed from the reservations during the during the relocation program,
(32:07):
and whether it's the individuals themselves or their children or
their grandchildren that are now trying to find their way
back home and understand the struggles that they go through,
are the questions, the many questions that they have. We
want to be always, we always want to be available
(32:27):
for them, to be there to assist them and show them,
not guiding them, but show them the direction of where
they're going to find their answers, you know. And so
I bring that element of real life experiences onto the
show and I imply it to that particular character and
and like I said, to help build that relationship between
(32:49):
Rainwater and Moan, you know, to always be there to
have loyalty and also that compassion that we almost have
for especially for our relatives who've been removed.
Speaker 1 (33:03):
I think it's such an amazing that that's sort of
what you're talking about, is carrying your own personal experience
and also this tradition and this heritage that you carry
with you onto the show. And I feel like, truly
from the first frame of the show that you appeared in,
Moe had such complexity and so much depth and history,
(33:25):
and the sort of presence that you carry with you
even when you're not speaking in a scene, even when
you're sort of a kind of silent counselor the looks
that rainwater gives to you, and sort of how much
you say without saying anything is such an incredible gift.
I also think it's amazing you've.
Speaker 3 (33:47):
Learned so much.
Speaker 1 (33:48):
You're such an expert in your own culture and your
own heritage, but you're also such an incredible learner. You
and I we spend some time together cutting, you know,
doing cutting, which was something that was relatively new to you, right, Like,
how much cutting have you done in your life?
Speaker 3 (34:05):
Not much? Not much?
Speaker 1 (34:07):
And what's amazing to me is that you can at
both you can at the same time be such an
expert have done this. It carries so much wisdom and
knowledge with you and also be so open to new experiences,
be so open to learning new things. So is there
anything on Yellowstone that the process of working on Yellowstone
has taught you, or anything that you're particularly interested in
(34:30):
diving deeper into that you've learned about over the course
of the show.
Speaker 4 (34:34):
You know, there's many aspects to the show that has
intrigued me. And I would say I love watching the crew.
Every every department within the crew is so important, and
you see all these moving parts, how they're able to function.
(34:55):
It's like watching a herd of buffalo move and every
single one of them are important. And I look at
the camera work and how they set up shots, and
I look at just not what Taylor has written, but
what he also has visualized and through a little screen,
and how he's able to allow us and give us
(35:18):
the room and of the space to bring to life
what he has put down laid down on a piece
of paper. And so I'm I would love to be
able to just sit for a whole season behind him
and watch how every single one of them that direct
(35:38):
you know rather it's Stephen k I mean all of them,
and just watch it. That's so amazing to be able
to capture a spirit into a lens through great camera work,
and to be able to direct not even just I mean,
I just look every aspect of it is so amazing
to me, and it just intrigued, All of it intriguing,
(36:00):
and I'm always open to learning. You can never you
can never allow yourself to think that you're a professional
at anything. For me, And so I see myself as
like this sponge that I'm just always hunger for knowledge,
and it don't matter. It's not just about my people's tradition,
(36:22):
but I'm I hunger for the knowledge of the society
as well. So I but know how to be able
to coexist and a compassionate and a loving way, and
a respectful way, and respectful to my culture, respectful to society,
to all people, and so to When I'm on a set,
(36:45):
I see how everything moves, and we're all in this
together at the end of the day, we all play
an important role. And so I'm just I love I
love being there, I love watching everyone work. I love
how you work. I mean, in fact, we was just
talking the other day. It's Sarah and they found a
calf that was it was poor and rain, it was cold,
(37:08):
and and they found this calf, and she remembered that
scene where you went back and you was you was
saving this calf. So we had a good guy s
little laugh about that. You know, Jimmy saved the calf.
Speaker 1 (37:21):
Oh yeah, except you guys did it for real and
a team of experts propped me up on a horse.
That was one of the funniest days, MO, because that
was the only time I've ever seen the stunt team nervous.
The only time I've ever seen those guys nervous was
when they had to let go of the calf and
(37:43):
walk away from me very slowly. I was looking at
them like, guys, I if you're worried, I'm worried, well
then I'm so. It's funny because you that quality you
describe of being a sponge, you know, of being o
been to learning and sort of observing and picking up
things from There's so much on films on a film
(38:04):
set that's about trust, that's about trusting everyone else to
do their job, sort of putting faith in everyone else
and sort of being able to then focus on your
own responsibilities without trying to micro manage everybody else. And
you're somebody who I have learned so much from in
so many ways, often just from watching you, because I
(38:25):
learned how to ride for Yellowstone. You know, I had
never touched a horse in my life before Season one
a Yellowstone, And you're somebody who, from the very beginning
sort of watching you ride has taught me so many
little things, kind of unspoken things, you know, because you're
such an expert in both the kind of spoken understanding
(38:46):
of this stuff, but also just the little things like
watching you ride has been such a sort of masterclass
in the unspoken rules and tricks to riding, which is relaxing,
going with the flow, even the way you describe living
your life, you know, going with the flow and living
in the moment. When I first started writing, I was
so tense. I was trying to do things right. I
(39:07):
was so sort of caught up in where my hands
were supposed to go and like doing it exactly the
right way. And I've been learning from you for four
years now how to chill out, how to relax a
little bit, have fun, how to sort of stay in
the moment and have fun because you sort of you
also have such a sort of breadth of knowledge on
(39:28):
so many different subjects. I think a lot of what
people respond to with Yellowstone is the feeling of authenticity,
you know, this this feeling that it's a world that
is really lived in. And you're somebody who brings so
much natural, easy authenticity to the show, but across so
many different fields, because you also have experienced in rodeo.
(39:50):
So will you talk a little bit about your your
history bull riding, bronc riding.
Speaker 4 (39:56):
Yeah, Like I said, I wanted to one of my uncles.
He yet my dad's brother, older brother. He used to
ride saddle wrong courses and of course he lost his
life while competing. Of course came over backwards on him.
And and there's no one else in our family that
(40:17):
that wanted to take that next step in that realm.
And I think I was just crazy enough to be
the one to say, you know, I'll do it, and
and so I write, I wrote bare back courses, and
I tried saddle wrong, but I was horrible because of
(40:37):
my thought process of everything. I was so scared and
nervous of it. And I rode bulls and and then
eventually I got scared of the bare back courses as well,
and I just decided to stick right with riding bulls,
they weren't scary for me. But outside of that, yeah,
you can get a horse we can't get. If we
(40:58):
can't get a settle on it, I'll get on it.
I didn't care when I was younger, when I was
a kid, if we didn't get a rope on the halt,
get a halter on the horse, I'll jump on that
horse forair back. I didn't care. But when it came
to rodeos, because those horses are bred differently and they
know their job. Where a ranch horse or or a
(41:18):
horse on a reservation, it's different, you know. And so
some of them bucked pretty good, and some of them
bucked extremely hard, and some of them really didn't buck
at all. And so I was just crazy. I was
just crazy enough to do whatever. I even rode a
buffalo once, and I couldn't believe I did myself after it.
(41:41):
But before that, my cousins they said, oh, you're too
scared to do it, and I was like, no, let's
do it. And so I jumped on and I held on.
I had a death grip. I think my toenails grew
real fast too, and I latched on my toenails like
a cat, and the buffalo stopped and it starts shaking,
and I I started shaking because I didn't know how
(42:01):
I was going to get off, because I know they're
super fast. But I jumped off anyway, and I took
off running, and it just stood there and watched me,
and I was like, thank you for not chasing me.
So I could say I wrote a buffalo once, but
I wouldn't really, honestly, Jefferson, I wouldn't really consider myself
an expert at many things, just for the fact that
(42:25):
what I've learned it came from people who were honestly
out of this world for me, even like Cole Paul Ferman,
who's one of the Wranglers. He's a good friend of mine.
I consider him a brother. And I watch that guy
right too, and I'm like you, I watch everyone right,
(42:46):
and I'm still learning things still. I'm always a student.
I always want to be a student. The day I
stopped being a student is the day that life's done
and over with, I'm sure, but I don't ever want
to see that yet. I'm always going to remain being
a student. So for me, I just I pick up
I pick up things by being a sponge. I'm able
(43:07):
to pick up things and I'll fight something. Some things
work and some things don't. There was some things that
my uncle did that were absolutely amazing, and I tried it.
It didn't work for me. And there were some things
that he did do that did work for me and
I and I held on to those things. And so
there's one thing that my grandfather he did teach me.
He said that when you work with a horse, never
(43:30):
never see what you can make that horse do your
whole your whole day should be spent on seeing what
you can both accomplish together. And and so I try
to carry that mentality with everything that I but that
I do. You know, I want to see what we
can accomplish together.
Speaker 1 (43:48):
I think we're I think we're coming to the end
of our time here. Is there anything else you'd like
to say, anybody else you'd like to shout out?
Speaker 3 (43:55):
Man?
Speaker 4 (43:55):
Just you know, it's always good to see you. It's
good to always see you. Guys have family members, I
mean really, you know, we're just one big family. And
I'm looking forward to getting back at it. I'm totally
excited for this new season to come out. I know
all my neighbors are pretty amped up for November seventh,
and but anyway, it's just man, I just want to
(44:18):
say thank you, thank you for including me and taking
the time to allow me to be a part of
you know, your new adventure. And I'm looking at good
luck to you. I know it's not you don't need
it because you you're so talented.
Speaker 1 (44:33):
Jim.
Speaker 3 (44:34):
Thanks mo.
Speaker 4 (44:34):
I appreciate it, man.
Speaker 1 (44:35):
Thank you for taking the time to do this, and
We've got a lot of adventures ahead of us. I'm
really excited you man.
Speaker 4 (44:41):
And I always ruggle with that too, Jefferson. I was like, Jimmy,
I mean, Jefferson, no one has that problem with me
because I'm mold exactly.
Speaker 1 (44:50):
That makes it easy.
Speaker 4 (44:51):
That makes it easy. So man, keep up the great
work you're you are. It's good you're sharing your talent
with the world. You got to great gift there.
Speaker 1 (45:00):
Thanks brother, Take care of the rest and I'll see
you really soon.
Speaker 4 (45:03):
Okay, thank you, Yeah, sounds good, brother, We'll be in time.
Here's me take care by now.
Speaker 1 (45:11):
Thank you all so much for tuning in. I obviously
would not be able to do this without you. If
it wasn't for you, I wouldn't be in this big,
beautiful podcast studio in the Win, Las Vegas. So thank
you so much for tuning in. It really it means
the world to me. We drop new episodes every Thursday,
so make sure to subscribe and tune in to the
(45:31):
Official Yellowstone Podcast on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, wherever you get
your podcasts. The Official Yellowstone Podcast is hosted by me
Jefferson White and produced by One on one Podcast Studios
in Paramount Network
Popular Podcasts
40s and Free Agents: NFL Draft Season
Daniel Jeremiah of Move the Sticks and Gregg Rosenthal of NFL Daily join forces to break down every team's needs this offseason.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
The Bobby Bones Show
Listen to 'The Bobby Bones Show' by downloading the daily full replay.