July 23, 2020 • 40 mins
For every athlete, there comes a point when their journey must come to an end. The conclusion of their work. Where everything is left on the field and their accomplishments are behind them. With 23 Olympic gold medals under his belt, Michael Phelps went out the way he wanted to - as the greatest Olympian in history. Listen to Michael detail his life beyond sport as he shares the steps he's taken to work on a new goal: raising mental health awareness around the world.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:06):
Yeah. Watch Pereira gard that proud has got him hot,
and he's up and he's alongside felps, alongside of me.
Lucky too. Now it's not the words, not unway world
records pace. That's a sensation of people thought I was
(00:32):
absolutely crazy trying to win a good medals. I didn't.
I believed that. I lived it. I dreamt it, I
imagined it. I visualized every little part of it. How
I wanted to go, I don't want it to go,
How it could go crazy every single race, visualize every
(00:53):
part of them being a bit of slum, the most
decorating down Welcome to the Only Ways. Through a collaboration
between under Armour and I Heart Radio, episode eight, Michael
(01:15):
phelps fish out of water. For every athlete, there comes
a point when their journey must come to an end,
the conclusion of their work, where everything is left on
the field and their accomplishments are behind them, but a
life of competition stays with you. It's ingrained in you.
(01:36):
It's part of your chemistry. The work may not be
the same, but that energy continues to flow. The question
becomes can you harness it? Can you manifest it into
something new? Retiring at thirty one may seem strange to some,
but Michael Phelps has lived a lifetime in the pool,
(01:57):
working through each challenge, breaking through every goal with relentless determination.
With twenty three gold medals under his belt, Phelps got
to go out on top the way he wanted to,
as the greatest Olympian in history. As he stepped out
of the pool and into civilian life, he's had to
(02:17):
make adjustments, retooling the things that defined him in the
water to challenge himself to help others on land, raising
mental health awareness for those who may be too afraid
to speak up, to fight for those who struggle like
he did, so that he can lead by example in
a new kind of way. It's a lot of responsibility
(02:38):
to the shoulder, but it's what he needs because he
feeds off the pressure. Cal sat down with Michael to
talk more. What's it like to go into an Olympic
race with a number in your head that you want
(02:58):
to beat and you don't beat it, but you win
a gold medal. When I go to a race, you
know clearly, I know the time that I'm trying to reach, right,
Like that's what I was preparing for. That's what I
was training for. When I write my goals down, say,
you know, say I want to go, Let's just use
this as an example, in two minutes in a race.
(03:21):
So if I want to go two minutes, I have
to probably be out in fifty seven the first hundred,
and then I gotta be one oh two, one oh
three coming back. So once I have that, then I
then break it down even farther and say, what do
I have to do the first fifties? Second? How do
I control my stroke? How many kicks am taking off
the wall? All of this? How many breasts am I taking?
(03:43):
So then you break it down deep here. But then
you break it down that much, and then the fifties
that I'm doing in practice, I need to do six
to eight kicks off of every wall. I need to
take seventeen strokes a lap, trying to be distance per stroke,
trying to be as efficient as I can. So you
break all of that stuff down and that's it. You know,
(04:03):
I was wondering, that's all there you go, what's my career?
In a nutshell? I was one of like watching some
of the video waits, say you're doing the backstroke, you're
approaching the wall and I'm wondering, like, how does he
know feel I'm more like just hyper sensitive. So that's
that's just I mean, that's the easiest way for me
(04:25):
to explain it. When I jump in the water, like
I feel the water on my fingertips, I feel the
water all over my body. When I kick, I can
feel the water on top and the bottom of my foot.
If there's a speaker underwater, I feel sound waves. It
disrupts my body underwater. I can go out and say
(04:46):
I'm probably one of the most hypersensitive people in water
out there. So it's back to repetition, right. If I
can be as efficient as I can in the water
for a million strokes, it's easy. Right. The other day,
So I had a guy a month ago now, he
basically broke down a golf swing to the simplest way
(05:08):
where I could understand it, and he was just like, yeah,
it's simple. And I said, why is that word in
my head so much? What reason is that in my head?
It's telling me something? Obviously, right, I have to break
it down into so many different ways. This just came
to you two weeks ago, and this is okay. So
so I for me, like I just felt like I
was probably almost in my own way because like, like
(05:30):
what I go through now with my son's like I
internalize a lot of the stuff and like beat myself
up when I feel like I'm not doing the best job.
Like like I just I intern like just crush myself
as a father, even as a father. Yeah, so I'm like, okay,
I need to simplify it, need to like break it
down and simplify it. So I started thinking that saying
that word, and then I have this experience with Mr Abbott,
(05:54):
and then that's literally the one thing that I try
to do every day is simplify my life in some way,
because that's what I did when I swim. Right, I
wake up, eat and go to the pool, stretch, swim,
do whatever I do there, go home, lay down, get
prepared for the afternoon workout, eat, go swim, come home,
(06:14):
do the same thing. Right. It's simple. My my my
routine and my schedule was very easy. So if I
did that for twenty five years, twenty plus years, and
I was able to be pretty successful, Um, then why
why why shouldn't I then do that in everyday life? Right?
You know what I mean? Like this is wild that
it's only two weeks ago for you to get like
(06:36):
a complete grip on this. But it's I mean, I
think it's just more of like an eye open area, right,
And it's just like I guess for me, it's it's
this is where I am in life, right. You know,
five years ago, I probably wouldn't have been able to
break down like this. But with what I've gone through
and experience since now being retired, I can take a
step back and break it down even more right because
I haven't. Because then, if you think about it, like
(06:57):
throughout my career, I basically just I would eat, sleep,
and swim, so I could never process what was going
on because I was always onto the next thing. I
was onto the next meet, onto the next training, like
this that the other. Now now I fully understand. Maybe
(07:19):
Michael's wife, Nicole is an ally in his fight for
mental health awareness. They traveled the country together her people
struggles and opened up about their own and through this
she's creating an environment for her family to grow. Here's Nicole.
It's kind of that never ending journey that you're on
day after day, right, no matter who you are. For Michael,
(07:42):
it wasn't a priority and it didn't need to be
a priority because he had a focus. He swimming was
number one. Swimming came before absolutely everything in his life,
which is where he made those sacrifices to do what
he's done and accomplished. And now that that's no longer there,
that mental health component plays a massive role and who
(08:03):
he is. When Michael was swimming, he was able to
take out that that anger or the pain that he
was feeling on himself in the water and he was
able to use that to beat opponents, if you will.
As difficult as it is that his mental health was
(08:26):
set aside, it created a base for him to be
able to become a very good person outside of it all,
and I think it just continues to drive him day
in and day out. Any sport players need guidance, any structure.
Under the eye of coach Bob Bowman, Michael learned that
(08:48):
dedication was only the beginning. Bowman coach Michael his entire career.
He pushed Michael to dig deeper, fight harder than he
ever thought possible. And Michael listen, because the two connected
on one thing, do whatever it takes to win. How
do you know when to trust a coach? Because there
(09:11):
are a lot of different coaches out there, a lot
of different ways that they can move somebody along. How
do you know? It's a great question. Honestly, I I
going back to that day, I don't know what it
was that made me trust my coach. You know, maybe
it was just that he believed in me, and that
was all I wanted. You know, he showed that there
was he had confidence in me being able to accomplish
(09:33):
whatever I wanted. You know, I think at that age,
with what I was going through with you know, my
parents separating, and you know, he was kind of almost
like a father figure to me, you know, spending so
much time around him. He knew I wanted to obviously
be an Olympian world record oh yah, YadA, YadA, but
he just believed that he could get me there. And
four years he showed me and I said, okay, let's
(09:56):
keep going. I mean, like that's really all it was,
like he just he showed, He showed and believed that, Yeah,
I could do whatever I put my mind too. Four
years we did it, and then six months later brooke
our first world record and then I just took off.
So but I think what he had for me, it
was better than any other coach. Like if I swam
(10:17):
for any other coach without my career, I would never
have had the success that I did. He could push
my buttons better than any other human out there. Why
why was he able to do that? It's an asshole.
I don't know, No, I don't. I mean, I think
it was just because we both had such a similar passion.
Like we we we didn't care how hard it was
(10:38):
going to be, you know, like we just we wanted
it that bad and nobody was gonna stop us. So um, yeah,
we just pushed through our found a way to push
through everything. Did he know exactly the right things to
say to you when you needed to hear them? You
knew how to piss me off and then how to
piss you off. But it's also like he knew exactly
what to say or do yeh to make me go
(11:02):
to a different level mentally and a different gear physically,
which then at that point you do it over time, right,
But I'm thinking of at fourteen years but I was
just hungry, but I didn't want to lose, you know.
I think It's like, but also I was swimming with
kids that were older than me, So when we first
started swimming. It was in a four lane pool with
(11:23):
five or six people in the lane, so it's every
man for themselves. In the lanes are five six ft wide,
so you put five or six people in there like
I so like I'm like maneuvering my way in and
out of people blasting him into the lane rup if
I have to just fighting for myself to like they
(11:46):
wouldn't let me go in front of them even though
I was faster, so I had to basically bust through them.
Me going through that process at fourteen year old kid, um,
you know, swimming with these eighteen year old at that
point gave me more confident. So when I did stand
up behind the block, I knew I was prepared. Wow,
(12:07):
so much of this happens in places that nobody ever
sees when they're turning on and seeing the Olympic moment,
that idea of just thrashing through everybody. Do we have
is their video tape? Sure? I'm sure there is at
some point. Yeah, I mean it was I swim in
that pool for fifteen years, ten years, And how how
(12:30):
did the people react as you're going through them, Like
after you come out of the pool, did they There
was No. I mean I feel like there was an
understanding after a few weeks that this guy in kind
of st Yeah, they kind of had to move out
of the way for me. Um. I guess that's how
this podcast got its name. Yeah, I mean it's it's sacrifice. Okay,
(12:59):
you have drive, you have determination, But if you're not
willing to sacrifice your birthday and Christmas and Thanksgiving and
Easter and that one day off that you've been given
but you should probably go do whatever you need to
do to better yourself or your sport or your job,
then you're not winning twenty three gold medals. And to
(13:19):
this day, there's sacrifice. There's sacrifice of Okay, I'm not
going to go golf today because I'm gonna be home
with my family, or I'm not going to go over
to someone'so's house because I'm gonna stay here and I'm
going to spend fifteen minutes of undivided attention with my sons.
It's the sacrifice. And I think, yes, Michael has drive,
Yes Michael has done a lot, And I think what
(13:40):
a lot of people forget is the amount of sacrifice
Michael gave for his accomplishments and what he continues to
do what happens to get you to your first Olympics,
which you're gonna do it at at an incredibly young age.
What helped me get to my first Olympics was really
(14:02):
just the five probably five years of not missing a
single day. You know, I think, you know, being able
to almost perfect I guess you know the best way
for me to move through the water stroke wise, and yeah,
just consistency, right, I mean that that gave me that
chance to be able to. I mean, I guess like
going in six months of four trials, I was, you know,
(14:23):
top five in the country. I go to trials in
two thousand and I was seventh at the last fifty,
end up getting second. Um, go to Olympics, get fifth,
three tents of a second out of medal. Ing. I
was upset. Um. I got back in the water the
very next day, started training for the next four years,
broke world records six months later. Um. And then I think, really,
(14:46):
just you know, everything not going perfectly in Sydney and
not coming home with the medal, like they gave you
a piece of paper like congratulations, and I was I
was pissed about that, Like I don't want to I
don't want to certificate that said I went and compete
at the Olympics like I went hardware. I want a
real piece. I want to meddle, and that right there
was just motivation for me going in the next four
years to make sure that like when I when I
(15:08):
had that next chance to stand up on the on
the Olympic level, that I was ready to basically just
tear one's head off, just go gangbusters. If you listen
to Debbie Phelps speak, it's easy to understand where Michael's
relentless drive comes from. She has conviction. She championed him
as he grew through each level until he reached the
(15:28):
Olympic stage. Here's Debbie. He always had goals, he said
for himself at every meet. When he was not a
successful in meeting, there's goals. He would get really upset.
I can remember a time at George Mason University when
he wanted to break two free record I think was
(15:51):
Matt beyond A's and he didn't do it, and he's like,
I'm so upset I didn't break that record. I said,
uh huh, I know, I saw it. I saw But
let's get to the realization. Michael, you will go back
and you will swim that race again, and I bet
(16:12):
with your work ethic that you will break that record.
You step three steps forward, then you step two back
and say, you know, let's regroup here. We were always
regrouping as a family in our house. I had three
(16:32):
kids at three different pools at three different times. But
also during that time I went back and finished my masters.
Everybody was moving. It was continuously fluid. So I think
what they saw necessarily in the household of what we
were all doing as a as a family, it made
us just stronger, and it did put put pressure on
(16:53):
us for excellence, to strive for excellence and do it.
If you're gonna do it, you're gonna do it right.
You're not gonna do it half. What a transition, because
I'm listening to tell these stories, and the way you
think when you're fifteen, compared to the way you're thinking
(17:19):
in my career is probably the same way throughout the
whole entire time. Probably here here's the thing. At fifteen,
you're piste to get this certificate. Later on, I'm also
pissed to get a silver, though I'm passed to get
a bronze. So you're the same thing. You're even piste
to get a gold when you don't want to hit
(17:39):
the number you want, because it's like, why am I
wasting four years if I'm not if I'm not getting faster,
or why am I wasting a single year of training
if I'm not gonna get any faster? But but also
like my phone, and I am my best phone, And
I was four or three eighty one before I broke
the world record in the phone, and I for the
(18:00):
very first time the world Wreckers four eleven eight four
or something like that by Tom Dolan. I broke it once.
And then after that I said, all right, what can
I What can I do to go four oh five
five seconds faster than any other human being is possibly
gone or thought about going? Ever, how can I do it?
(18:22):
I gotta figure it out, right, It's a numbers game.
So then I break that down. What do I have
to be out in butterfly? What do I have to
do in backstroke? What do I have to do in breastroke?
What do I have to finish it in freestyle? And
then how many times in practice do I have to
replicate that feeling in order to get to the Olympics.
And have it be nothing. I just fall in the
water and go. So we break down things. So many
(18:47):
gets the simplicity. You're just breaking it too. That's all
we are. But it's almost like we're we're like that
anal about it. Really just that engaged, obsessed. So when
you when your first Olympic gold medal, what does it
(19:07):
feel like? Do you are you filled with a hunger
for more? Are you satiated in any way? Or does
it not even matter because you're just so focused on
going faster? I mean the very first one. Obviously, you
know you chase it for so long. I mean I
(19:28):
chased it for eighteen years. It was an Athens when
I won my first I'll never forget standing on the
podium and then coming off of the podium and going
back to the warm downpool and actually passed my metal
through a chain link fence to my mom and I said,
we did it, Hilly, wouldn't I go down to the
(19:51):
chain link fence. Michael and Barber coming towards us. The
medal was around his neck. In his other hand, he
has a peanut butter and jelly sandwich as he walks
to that fence. Every time I tell this story. I
have what has been quite a deep moment. He puts
(20:12):
that metals through that fence and says, mom, look what
I've done. And it was the most magical moment because
as a mother, I went back to him being in
age group of swimmer he was ten years old and
(20:33):
watch you give come across that pool deck with his coach.
It just it was that that same, that same scenario,
that same picture I had when he was ten years old.
And after we had our moment and we hugged and
we high fived and we kissed, Bob said, all right,
that's enough, let's get in the pool, Let's get warmed down.
(20:53):
We have another race tomorrow morning. I'm like Jesus, I
literally just spent my whole life trying to win this
one gold medal, and I can't even really enjoy it,
right because I had something else to do. So it
was like as magical as it was and as heartwarmingness
it was, and such a cheerful moment, and a cheerful moment.
(21:16):
Bob knew there was a plan in place for him
to swim the next eight days and we were done
being gushy. It's kind of wild now looking back at
him because everyone has a story and I'm able to
now kind of relive the memories that I had because
it was just so hard to do it during the time.
Your life is just focused on what's next and how
(21:39):
to get there in the simplest way. And that's like
a formula for success that applies and everything everything, anything
in life. Yeah, I mean, like we, like we said earlier,
look at kids, it's the purest form of life. Right.
They fall down, they might cry for a sec, but
then after that they forget about it and move on, right, Like,
(22:00):
they don't they don't hold on to like I don't
know that, I guess the petty stuff for like the
small stuff, you know what I mean. They just let
it go to where sometimes our ego can get in
our way or you know. So it's like that's why
I think, like when I look at my kids now,
you know, I almost try and take what I see
(22:20):
and implement it as much as I can into my life,
right because it's it's the only way that I'm going
to grow as a person. Right. And I could see
if you had resented the moment where your coach says, hey,
let's get warmed up for tomorrow and wanted to stay
there with your mom long at that resentment. I didn't
(22:40):
have the opportunity. Would I wouldn't have had the opportunity, right.
Maybe I couldn't have had the opportunity had I not
done this right, had I not listened to him, maybe
I wouldn't have, you know, been third. Maybe I would
have been fifth the next day in the tune or
three he is Nicole Phelps. I think every single day
is a different perspective on mental health and think as
we move forward, will learn more and more. It's kind
(23:03):
of that never ending journey that you're on day after day, right,
no matter who you are. And for Michael, it wasn't
a priority and it didn't need to be a priority
because he had a focus. He swimming was number one.
Swimming came before absolutely everything in his life, which is
where he made those sacrifices to do what he's done
and accomplished. And now that that's no longer there, that
(23:28):
mental health component plays a massive role and who he
is in order for him to be just able to
live day to day without something else ruling his life.
And it's been you know, there's days that are really
difficult to watch with Michael, And there's days that are
absolutely incredible and people will reach out to me and
(23:49):
they'll share stuff with me and they're like, thank you
so much for you and Michael being out there and
talking about mental health and making it okay to share.
And I think that's the biggest thing that we're seeing
within our society right now, is that transformation of being
open and willing to talk about your struggles versus you're
(24:09):
not allowed to see what's wrong with me because that's
a weakness. So what happens on this journey going forward,
Because you're saying that all the medals have a story
of their own after you leave Athens, what's the next
story that pushes you forward? Well? I wasn't perfect. I lost, right,
(24:32):
I mean, in all seriousness, like it's all about one.
I hated to lose more than nine. So but like
I also know that if I didn't hit a time,
then part of it's probably on me. Right then, probably
I didn't do everything that I could have. And I
learned that, I think really in in two thousand three
(24:55):
two three, I basically tried to tell my coach that
I wanted to do it I way and his way
was not working. And what was your way the way
you were proposing. I wanted it easier, so we we
we all know what kind of results when you get
when you want it the easy way. So that was
that was a learning experience for me because he gave
(25:16):
me the easier program. But then I still expected to
have the great results. It doesn't work. It's not how
it goes, was it, humble Pie going back to him, Yeah,
what was that like if I'm seeing it in a movie.
I mean, I think the biggest thing was just like
when I came back in fourteen, He said to me,
are you ready to do this? And I said, yeah,
well so I'm doing it right. He goes, well, it's
(25:39):
gonna be done my way and there's no other way
to do it. So I knew that. I just had
to check everything else out. I just listened to everything
he had to tell me. He said jump, I to
say how high, just how it works. He probably knew
my body by than I did. He probably knew what
I could do better than I did. So I just
had to trust him and believe him. You can make
all these deposits, these training deposits in the bank. You
(26:02):
can build up such a lead that the matter, It
doesn't matter, that's the thing. So it's like I make
one big withdraw what I mean really every four years, right,
Like that's where I'm trying to make the massive withdrawal
with everything that we've been putting into it. So all
of my hard work and training, I'm looking for the Olympics, right,
(26:23):
I only get that every four years. So that's that's
my biggest goal. How can I get as prepared as
I can for that? So how much money can I
deposit into my my personal body bank to be able
to withdraw when I need it? And if I'm not
doing the work and those lights come on and I'm
not prepared, I'm gonna lose. I'm not gonna swim, I'm
(26:43):
gonna go slow. Two Butterfly, what happened? I got touched up.
I deserve that I didn't prepare for it. Do you
play that over in your mind again and again and again?
I still play that race in my head. Pisses me off?
What play it for me? Now? What am I I'm
and just is it too painful? No? No, no, it's
just I mean I know that you know, if I'm
(27:05):
not long on the first wall, if I'm not long
on the last wall, I went the rece you know,
for me, leading up to that point, I was missing,
you know, a week or two weeks here at a
time of practice. I just wouldn't come because I didn't care.
So it goes back to you get what you deserve. Wow.
So really it's not the moment, it's it's knowing what
(27:29):
was behind the moment. So much of this everything is
happening in places where nobody else is seeing it. It's
like our underarmer spot that we did go into sixteen.
You know, it's what happens behind closed doors, that's what
happens in the dark, That's what brings you out to light.
So every day when I was grinding my you know,
my tail off, I was I'm trying to do everything
(27:50):
I could to give myself a chance. At the end
of the day, you're on the podium with Ryan Hill
and he's in his first international event, he's winning the
(28:12):
gold medal for the first time, and he asks you
basically like came cry like I don't know how to
do this, like I've never been up here before, and
you're just like, dude, let let the emotions go, let
him let him fly out, and and honestly, it was
like just streaming tears. To me. It was something that
(28:39):
I've never seen or like been able to feel because
I was always focused on what I was doing next.
So like being able to for me to experience what
I had throughout my life and then be open enough to,
you know, see the emotions, the raw emotions that that
he was going through, and in that moment, it's just
it's the greatest feeling in the world, right like you're
(29:00):
winning an Olympic medal with your teammates. I mean, I
never ever really cried on the stated on the podium
because I was so conscious of my emotional energy. So
it's something that I had to contain as much as
I could in order to make it a whole eight
day program. So I couldn't let my emotions take over there.
(29:21):
I had to hold everything back. Here's Debbie Phelps once
more when there was supposed to be his last games,
and I had so many parents after me and thank
me for Michael's mentorship, which prior to that time, I'm
not saying Michael did not get involved with the swimmers,
(29:43):
but he was so entrenched by his platform and his program.
I saw that mentoring start then. But then I saw
him going to twelve, when he had such a free
spirited way that he embraced the games in Rio, watching
him transition from a sport that he loves to being
(30:04):
an advocate for clean sport, the next generation of athletes,
watching him be a businessman leading his foundation board, watching
him open up about mental health in reference to talking
about his life. I feel that he is feeling, if
(30:24):
that's the word. I want to use his time well
with his boys, Nicole and his new profession. But sometimes
I think when he's idle, he doesn't want to do
with his time because it was so structured before. Mental
health is very difficult to chase because it's not tangible,
(30:45):
so there's nothing that can be handed to him at
the end of the day. But when he's in the
setting of speaking in front of thousands of people and
somebody stands up and says, I wanted my dream job,
I got my dream job, I'm here at my dream job.
I want to kill myself, and they've never opened up
to anyone before. That's something that Michael can see right
(31:06):
in front of him and see and he sees that
he is making a difference. Everybody has a different definition
of who Michael is in their heart. But I think
the biggest difference and what drives him today is that
purpose of helping people save lives, are helping people live
happier or helping couples remain together because of this awareness
(31:28):
around the mental health stigma that's been in our society
for years. So for so many years you've been you're holding, holding,
holding back, and now you're at a stage where you
can see somebody just best loose into tears. You're a
(31:48):
different person in a way. But I think like the
only reason that allowed me to experience how I did
was probably because of life's process that I was. I
was going through right the up and downs that I
went through too, to almost just take a step back
and try to simplify things, right, like live in that moment,
be present for that, you know that moment. I mean,
(32:09):
I for me, like I felt like a dad on
that team. I mean I was a dad, but I
was the oldest dude, you know, one of the oldest
guys have been around for ever, you know, with thirty
three rookies or thirty two rookies that we had in
that team. I felt like I wanted to try and
take all of them under my wing as much as
I could to try to help them get ready for
the future. Completely different person. Yeah, I mean it's the
(32:30):
first time probably my life that I talked to every
single human being on that team, and I was a
team captain, so it was it was it was a big,
big clothes um to my career. And and you know,
the best way to close my career. So you went
out the way you wanted to go out, and you
enter a new phase of life. How does everything that
(32:51):
you learn in the pool on your journey effect where
you're going now? Well, in reality, it's basically the same thing, right,
because I'm trying to accomplish a goal and that's all
I tried to do in the pool. So it's kind
of weird for me now going through this part of
life because I feel like I've taken more strokes in
(33:13):
the swimming pool than I have taken steps on planet Earth.
Because if you think about it, like I mean, you
heard my day right, like I was sleeping, I was
laying down, I was watching TV, like, I was always
off my feet. So now I'm taking ten fifteen thousand
steps today. My body has to adjust to that. So
I'm basically learning a part of life, just like my
(33:35):
kids are learning now. This is only gets more surreal
to think about that, right, Like it's it's so crazy
because I literally have been in water my whole life,
and now I'm gonna fish out of water, and where
are you taking things for me? Like, I'm very lucky
to have or to start the next chapter of my
(33:57):
life and still be able to do what I love.
I got involved in swimming because my mom wanted me
to be water safe. Water safety is one of the
highest causes of death for children under the age of fourteen,
so I'm trying to teach as many kids as I
can to be water safe. Mental health is something that
I struggle with and have struggled with my whole life.
(34:19):
It's not gonna leave me. I'm still going to have
anxiety issues or anxiety problems, or I'm going to have
depression spells, like just it's just what makes me me
so and I know there are a lot of people
out there that are struggling from the same exact thing.
So being able to help people understand it's okay to
not to be okay, it's okay to go through struggles.
(34:40):
It's okay to ask for help. I didn't want to
ask her help for a long time. But I can't
do everything by myself. So it's like all of these
things that I'm able to learn myself but then also
try to also save a life. Are there ways that
you could still put your goals on the refrigerate or now?
Of course you still they're not there now, but maybe
(35:05):
just need to have them in your mind. No, Like
I I'm old school, I gotta see it. I gotta
write it down. I want pen and paper. I I
want to I want to see why I'm why I'm
getting out of bed every day. The times that I
had my goal sheet where in my closet, every time
I went in my closet to get dressed, I saw them.
So I lived it every day. I obsessed over it.
(35:26):
If I'm writing them down and I'm taking the time
to go through that process, that time is important to me.
It's meaningful to me. I'm gonna do everything in my
life that's going to help me get there and give
me a chance to get there. And if I'm not,
then I might as well just give up. I think
(35:48):
we search for why Michael did what he did and
why he continues to accomplish what he did, and I
think at the end of the day, it comes down
to being willing to do what other people aren't willing
to do. We want instant gratification, but we don't want
to put in the hard work to do it. You
(36:09):
can ask me, is there anything that he did that
we don't know about? But everybody's been privy to what
Michael has done. I mean he trained his butt off,
and a lot of the kids that are coming up
I don't want to put in the hard work and
they don't want to do what he did, and so
they're not going to get to what Michael did. And
that goes with anything. And even I struggle with putting
in the hard work to go do to become better
(36:30):
at something right. And I think that that is what
I witnessed from day one. I mean, it is what's
done in the dark still that you don't recognize. That
is what has created Michael and what will continue to
create Michael. When you think of what you can accomplish now,
(36:51):
saving lives of some kids who might not have gotten
thought of the water, okay, or helping people with mental issues.
Can that be put on a piece of paper, so
that you could say, yeah, this is what I want
to do. I want to say this many people this year.
(37:13):
It might be that, but it might be like ambiguous.
You know, I don't think it's ambiguous at all, because
I mean, if it's your goal and you obviously believe
you can do it, like a goal shouldn't be something
that I can go to bed and then tomorrow accomplish,
you know, like it's a process of it. I have
to have something that's challenging enough, important enough, exciting enough
(37:34):
that's going to keep me interested and engaged to go
through the hardest times. Right, you have to me winning
eight gold medals was something that was exciting enough to
keep me engaged throughout my career. Right So you know,
I'm just putting two and two together. I'm trying to
make this as simple as possible. So you're waking up
(37:56):
now thinking about people who how can I make a difference,
How can I help How can I help somebody who's struggling,
Whether it's from depression, whether it's learned to swim, whether
it's anxiety, it doesn't matter. How can I help somebody
become better? How can I make the world a better place?
It's like you've managed to up the anti challenging, Right,
I'm challenging myself. People thought I was absolutely crazy trying
(38:18):
to win eight gold medals, right I didn't. I imagined it.
I visualized every little part of it how I wanted
to go, I don't want it to go, how it
could go. Can you visualize where you're going to take
your journey now five years down the road, ten years
down the road. And that's the process of what I'm
trying to do now. In reality, it's basically the same thing.
(38:39):
Like what I'm trying to do on land, it's the
same thing that I was trying to do in the pool, right,
it's goal, So now I'm just trying to learn how
to do it on land. Is there a way to
even know what your programs are doing? Like, how would
you know that you saved somebody's life? Well, I mean
you can see based off of how many kids teach
(39:00):
water safety. You know how many kids go through that
class and can feel comfortable enough that if they're in
the pool, they can managed to swim or to get
to safety if they need to. So it's a numbers game.
It's all life is, right, numbers times seconds. So the
(39:22):
other question is how do you define time. It's the
one thing we don't have. It's a one resource that
we're never going to be able to get back. We're
always gonna run out of time. So how do you
manage your time? What do you do with the time
that you're giving. If it's focused on what you're trying
to achieve, then you're probably gonna have a pretty damn
good shot at getting there. The Only Way is Through
(39:50):
is the collaboration between Under Armour and I Heart Media.
The show is produced by Ali's Conway Kelly and Bondile,
Andy Kelly, Brian Ray and Russ axel Rod in partnership
with Ryan Ovadia, Daniel Ainsworth, Haley Ericsson and Garret Shannon
of Banter. This has been the only Way is Through
Yeah. Watch Pereira gard that proud has got him hot,
and he's up and he's alongside felps, alongside of me.
Lucky too. Now it's not the words, not unway world
records pace. That's a sensation of people thought I was
(00:32):
absolutely crazy trying to win a good medals. I didn't.
I believed that. I lived it. I dreamt it, I
imagined it. I visualized every little part of it. How
I wanted to go, I don't want it to go,
How it could go crazy every single race, visualize every
(00:53):
part of them being a bit of slum, the most
decorating down Welcome to the Only Ways. Through a collaboration
between under Armour and I Heart Radio, episode eight, Michael
(01:15):
phelps fish out of water. For every athlete, there comes
a point when their journey must come to an end,
the conclusion of their work, where everything is left on
the field and their accomplishments are behind them, but a
life of competition stays with you. It's ingrained in you.
(01:36):
It's part of your chemistry. The work may not be
the same, but that energy continues to flow. The question
becomes can you harness it? Can you manifest it into
something new? Retiring at thirty one may seem strange to some,
but Michael Phelps has lived a lifetime in the pool,
(01:57):
working through each challenge, breaking through every goal with relentless determination.
With twenty three gold medals under his belt, Phelps got
to go out on top the way he wanted to,
as the greatest Olympian in history. As he stepped out
of the pool and into civilian life, he's had to
(02:17):
make adjustments, retooling the things that defined him in the
water to challenge himself to help others on land, raising
mental health awareness for those who may be too afraid
to speak up, to fight for those who struggle like
he did, so that he can lead by example in
a new kind of way. It's a lot of responsibility
(02:38):
to the shoulder, but it's what he needs because he
feeds off the pressure. Cal sat down with Michael to
talk more. What's it like to go into an Olympic
race with a number in your head that you want
(02:58):
to beat and you don't beat it, but you win
a gold medal. When I go to a race, you
know clearly, I know the time that I'm trying to reach, right,
Like that's what I was preparing for. That's what I
was training for. When I write my goals down, say,
you know, say I want to go, Let's just use
this as an example, in two minutes in a race.
(03:21):
So if I want to go two minutes, I have
to probably be out in fifty seven the first hundred,
and then I gotta be one oh two, one oh
three coming back. So once I have that, then I
then break it down even farther and say, what do
I have to do the first fifties? Second? How do
I control my stroke? How many kicks am taking off
the wall? All of this? How many breasts am I taking?
(03:43):
So then you break it down deep here. But then
you break it down that much, and then the fifties
that I'm doing in practice, I need to do six
to eight kicks off of every wall. I need to
take seventeen strokes a lap, trying to be distance per stroke,
trying to be as efficient as I can. So you
break all of that stuff down and that's it. You know,
(04:03):
I was wondering, that's all there you go, what's my career?
In a nutshell? I was one of like watching some
of the video waits, say you're doing the backstroke, you're
approaching the wall and I'm wondering, like, how does he
know feel I'm more like just hyper sensitive. So that's
that's just I mean, that's the easiest way for me
(04:25):
to explain it. When I jump in the water, like
I feel the water on my fingertips, I feel the
water all over my body. When I kick, I can
feel the water on top and the bottom of my foot.
If there's a speaker underwater, I feel sound waves. It
disrupts my body underwater. I can go out and say
(04:46):
I'm probably one of the most hypersensitive people in water
out there. So it's back to repetition, right. If I
can be as efficient as I can in the water
for a million strokes, it's easy. Right. The other day,
So I had a guy a month ago now, he
basically broke down a golf swing to the simplest way
(05:08):
where I could understand it, and he was just like, yeah,
it's simple. And I said, why is that word in
my head so much? What reason is that in my head?
It's telling me something? Obviously, right, I have to break
it down into so many different ways. This just came
to you two weeks ago, and this is okay. So
so I for me, like I just felt like I
was probably almost in my own way because like, like
(05:30):
what I go through now with my son's like I
internalize a lot of the stuff and like beat myself
up when I feel like I'm not doing the best job.
Like like I just I intern like just crush myself
as a father, even as a father. Yeah, so I'm like, okay,
I need to simplify it, need to like break it
down and simplify it. So I started thinking that saying
that word, and then I have this experience with Mr Abbott,
(05:54):
and then that's literally the one thing that I try
to do every day is simplify my life in some way,
because that's what I did when I swim. Right, I
wake up, eat and go to the pool, stretch, swim,
do whatever I do there, go home, lay down, get
prepared for the afternoon workout, eat, go swim, come home,
(06:14):
do the same thing. Right. It's simple. My my my
routine and my schedule was very easy. So if I
did that for twenty five years, twenty plus years, and
I was able to be pretty successful, Um, then why
why why shouldn't I then do that in everyday life? Right?
You know what I mean? Like this is wild that
it's only two weeks ago for you to get like
(06:36):
a complete grip on this. But it's I mean, I
think it's just more of like an eye open area, right,
And it's just like I guess for me, it's it's
this is where I am in life, right. You know,
five years ago, I probably wouldn't have been able to
break down like this. But with what I've gone through
and experience since now being retired, I can take a
step back and break it down even more right because
I haven't. Because then, if you think about it, like
(06:57):
throughout my career, I basically just I would eat, sleep,
and swim, so I could never process what was going
on because I was always onto the next thing. I
was onto the next meet, onto the next training, like
this that the other. Now now I fully understand. Maybe
(07:19):
Michael's wife, Nicole is an ally in his fight for
mental health awareness. They traveled the country together her people
struggles and opened up about their own and through this
she's creating an environment for her family to grow. Here's Nicole.
It's kind of that never ending journey that you're on
day after day, right, no matter who you are. For Michael,
(07:42):
it wasn't a priority and it didn't need to be
a priority because he had a focus. He swimming was
number one. Swimming came before absolutely everything in his life,
which is where he made those sacrifices to do what
he's done and accomplished. And now that that's no longer there,
that mental health component plays a massive role and who
(08:03):
he is. When Michael was swimming, he was able to
take out that that anger or the pain that he
was feeling on himself in the water and he was
able to use that to beat opponents, if you will.
As difficult as it is that his mental health was
(08:26):
set aside, it created a base for him to be
able to become a very good person outside of it all,
and I think it just continues to drive him day
in and day out. Any sport players need guidance, any structure.
Under the eye of coach Bob Bowman, Michael learned that
(08:48):
dedication was only the beginning. Bowman coach Michael his entire career.
He pushed Michael to dig deeper, fight harder than he
ever thought possible. And Michael listen, because the two connected
on one thing, do whatever it takes to win. How
do you know when to trust a coach? Because there
(09:11):
are a lot of different coaches out there, a lot
of different ways that they can move somebody along. How
do you know? It's a great question. Honestly, I I
going back to that day, I don't know what it
was that made me trust my coach. You know, maybe
it was just that he believed in me, and that
was all I wanted. You know, he showed that there
was he had confidence in me being able to accomplish
(09:33):
whatever I wanted. You know, I think at that age,
with what I was going through with you know, my
parents separating, and you know, he was kind of almost
like a father figure to me, you know, spending so
much time around him. He knew I wanted to obviously
be an Olympian world record oh yah, YadA, YadA, but
he just believed that he could get me there. And
four years he showed me and I said, okay, let's
(09:56):
keep going. I mean, like that's really all it was,
like he just he showed, He showed and believed that, Yeah,
I could do whatever I put my mind too. Four
years we did it, and then six months later brooke
our first world record and then I just took off.
So but I think what he had for me, it
was better than any other coach. Like if I swam
(10:17):
for any other coach without my career, I would never
have had the success that I did. He could push
my buttons better than any other human out there. Why
why was he able to do that? It's an asshole.
I don't know, No, I don't. I mean, I think
it was just because we both had such a similar passion.
Like we we we didn't care how hard it was
(10:38):
going to be, you know, like we just we wanted
it that bad and nobody was gonna stop us. So um, yeah,
we just pushed through our found a way to push
through everything. Did he know exactly the right things to
say to you when you needed to hear them? You
knew how to piss me off and then how to
piss you off. But it's also like he knew exactly
what to say or do yeh to make me go
(11:02):
to a different level mentally and a different gear physically,
which then at that point you do it over time, right,
But I'm thinking of at fourteen years but I was
just hungry, but I didn't want to lose, you know.
I think It's like, but also I was swimming with
kids that were older than me, So when we first
started swimming. It was in a four lane pool with
(11:23):
five or six people in the lane, so it's every
man for themselves. In the lanes are five six ft wide,
so you put five or six people in there like
I so like I'm like maneuvering my way in and
out of people blasting him into the lane rup if
I have to just fighting for myself to like they
(11:46):
wouldn't let me go in front of them even though
I was faster, so I had to basically bust through them.
Me going through that process at fourteen year old kid, um,
you know, swimming with these eighteen year old at that
point gave me more confident. So when I did stand
up behind the block, I knew I was prepared. Wow,
(12:07):
so much of this happens in places that nobody ever
sees when they're turning on and seeing the Olympic moment,
that idea of just thrashing through everybody. Do we have
is their video tape? Sure? I'm sure there is at
some point. Yeah, I mean it was I swim in
that pool for fifteen years, ten years, And how how
(12:30):
did the people react as you're going through them, Like
after you come out of the pool, did they There
was No. I mean I feel like there was an
understanding after a few weeks that this guy in kind
of st Yeah, they kind of had to move out
of the way for me. Um. I guess that's how
this podcast got its name. Yeah, I mean it's it's sacrifice. Okay,
(12:59):
you have drive, you have determination, But if you're not
willing to sacrifice your birthday and Christmas and Thanksgiving and
Easter and that one day off that you've been given
but you should probably go do whatever you need to
do to better yourself or your sport or your job,
then you're not winning twenty three gold medals. And to
(13:19):
this day, there's sacrifice. There's sacrifice of Okay, I'm not
going to go golf today because I'm gonna be home
with my family, or I'm not going to go over
to someone'so's house because I'm gonna stay here and I'm
going to spend fifteen minutes of undivided attention with my sons.
It's the sacrifice. And I think, yes, Michael has drive,
Yes Michael has done a lot, And I think what
(13:40):
a lot of people forget is the amount of sacrifice
Michael gave for his accomplishments and what he continues to
do what happens to get you to your first Olympics,
which you're gonna do it at at an incredibly young age.
What helped me get to my first Olympics was really
(14:02):
just the five probably five years of not missing a
single day. You know, I think, you know, being able
to almost perfect I guess you know the best way
for me to move through the water stroke wise, and yeah,
just consistency, right, I mean that that gave me that
chance to be able to. I mean, I guess like
going in six months of four trials, I was, you know,
(14:23):
top five in the country. I go to trials in
two thousand and I was seventh at the last fifty,
end up getting second. Um, go to Olympics, get fifth,
three tents of a second out of medal. Ing. I
was upset. Um. I got back in the water the
very next day, started training for the next four years,
broke world records six months later. Um. And then I think, really,
(14:46):
just you know, everything not going perfectly in Sydney and
not coming home with the medal, like they gave you
a piece of paper like congratulations, and I was I
was pissed about that, Like I don't want to I
don't want to certificate that said I went and compete
at the Olympics like I went hardware. I want a
real piece. I want to meddle, and that right there
was just motivation for me going in the next four
years to make sure that like when I when I
(15:08):
had that next chance to stand up on the on
the Olympic level, that I was ready to basically just
tear one's head off, just go gangbusters. If you listen
to Debbie Phelps speak, it's easy to understand where Michael's
relentless drive comes from. She has conviction. She championed him
as he grew through each level until he reached the
(15:28):
Olympic stage. Here's Debbie. He always had goals, he said
for himself at every meet. When he was not a
successful in meeting, there's goals. He would get really upset.
I can remember a time at George Mason University when
he wanted to break two free record I think was
(15:51):
Matt beyond A's and he didn't do it, and he's like,
I'm so upset I didn't break that record. I said,
uh huh, I know, I saw it. I saw But
let's get to the realization. Michael, you will go back
and you will swim that race again, and I bet
(16:12):
with your work ethic that you will break that record.
You step three steps forward, then you step two back
and say, you know, let's regroup here. We were always
regrouping as a family in our house. I had three
(16:32):
kids at three different pools at three different times. But
also during that time I went back and finished my masters.
Everybody was moving. It was continuously fluid. So I think
what they saw necessarily in the household of what we
were all doing as a as a family, it made
us just stronger, and it did put put pressure on
(16:53):
us for excellence, to strive for excellence and do it.
If you're gonna do it, you're gonna do it right.
You're not gonna do it half. What a transition, because
I'm listening to tell these stories, and the way you
think when you're fifteen, compared to the way you're thinking
(17:19):
in my career is probably the same way throughout the
whole entire time. Probably here here's the thing. At fifteen,
you're piste to get this certificate. Later on, I'm also
pissed to get a silver, though I'm passed to get
a bronze. So you're the same thing. You're even piste
to get a gold when you don't want to hit
(17:39):
the number you want, because it's like, why am I
wasting four years if I'm not if I'm not getting faster,
or why am I wasting a single year of training
if I'm not gonna get any faster? But but also
like my phone, and I am my best phone, And
I was four or three eighty one before I broke
the world record in the phone, and I for the
(18:00):
very first time the world Wreckers four eleven eight four
or something like that by Tom Dolan. I broke it once.
And then after that I said, all right, what can
I What can I do to go four oh five
five seconds faster than any other human being is possibly
gone or thought about going? Ever, how can I do it?
(18:22):
I gotta figure it out, right, It's a numbers game.
So then I break that down. What do I have
to be out in butterfly? What do I have to
do in backstroke? What do I have to do in breastroke?
What do I have to finish it in freestyle? And
then how many times in practice do I have to
replicate that feeling in order to get to the Olympics.
And have it be nothing. I just fall in the
water and go. So we break down things. So many
(18:47):
gets the simplicity. You're just breaking it too. That's all
we are. But it's almost like we're we're like that
anal about it. Really just that engaged, obsessed. So when
you when your first Olympic gold medal, what does it
(19:07):
feel like? Do you are you filled with a hunger
for more? Are you satiated in any way? Or does
it not even matter because you're just so focused on
going faster? I mean the very first one. Obviously, you
know you chase it for so long. I mean I
(19:28):
chased it for eighteen years. It was an Athens when
I won my first I'll never forget standing on the
podium and then coming off of the podium and going
back to the warm downpool and actually passed my metal
through a chain link fence to my mom and I said,
we did it, Hilly, wouldn't I go down to the
(19:51):
chain link fence. Michael and Barber coming towards us. The
medal was around his neck. In his other hand, he
has a peanut butter and jelly sandwich as he walks
to that fence. Every time I tell this story. I
have what has been quite a deep moment. He puts
(20:12):
that metals through that fence and says, mom, look what
I've done. And it was the most magical moment because
as a mother, I went back to him being in
age group of swimmer he was ten years old and
(20:33):
watch you give come across that pool deck with his coach.
It just it was that that same, that same scenario,
that same picture I had when he was ten years old.
And after we had our moment and we hugged and
we high fived and we kissed, Bob said, all right,
that's enough, let's get in the pool, Let's get warmed down.
(20:53):
We have another race tomorrow morning. I'm like Jesus, I
literally just spent my whole life trying to win this
one gold medal, and I can't even really enjoy it,
right because I had something else to do. So it
was like as magical as it was and as heartwarmingness
it was, and such a cheerful moment, and a cheerful moment.
(21:16):
Bob knew there was a plan in place for him
to swim the next eight days and we were done
being gushy. It's kind of wild now looking back at
him because everyone has a story and I'm able to
now kind of relive the memories that I had because
it was just so hard to do it during the time.
Your life is just focused on what's next and how
(21:39):
to get there in the simplest way. And that's like
a formula for success that applies and everything everything, anything
in life. Yeah, I mean, like we, like we said earlier,
look at kids, it's the purest form of life. Right.
They fall down, they might cry for a sec, but
then after that they forget about it and move on, right, Like,
(22:00):
they don't they don't hold on to like I don't
know that, I guess the petty stuff for like the
small stuff, you know what I mean. They just let
it go to where sometimes our ego can get in
our way or you know. So it's like that's why
I think, like when I look at my kids now,
you know, I almost try and take what I see
(22:20):
and implement it as much as I can into my life,
right because it's it's the only way that I'm going
to grow as a person. Right. And I could see
if you had resented the moment where your coach says, hey,
let's get warmed up for tomorrow and wanted to stay
there with your mom long at that resentment. I didn't
(22:40):
have the opportunity. Would I wouldn't have had the opportunity, right.
Maybe I couldn't have had the opportunity had I not
done this right, had I not listened to him, maybe
I wouldn't have, you know, been third. Maybe I would
have been fifth the next day in the tune or
three he is Nicole Phelps. I think every single day
is a different perspective on mental health and think as
we move forward, will learn more and more. It's kind
(23:03):
of that never ending journey that you're on day after day, right,
no matter who you are. And for Michael, it wasn't
a priority and it didn't need to be a priority
because he had a focus. He swimming was number one.
Swimming came before absolutely everything in his life, which is
where he made those sacrifices to do what he's done
and accomplished. And now that that's no longer there, that
(23:28):
mental health component plays a massive role and who he
is in order for him to be just able to
live day to day without something else ruling his life.
And it's been you know, there's days that are really
difficult to watch with Michael, And there's days that are
absolutely incredible and people will reach out to me and
(23:49):
they'll share stuff with me and they're like, thank you
so much for you and Michael being out there and
talking about mental health and making it okay to share.
And I think that's the biggest thing that we're seeing
within our society right now, is that transformation of being
open and willing to talk about your struggles versus you're
(24:09):
not allowed to see what's wrong with me because that's
a weakness. So what happens on this journey going forward,
Because you're saying that all the medals have a story
of their own after you leave Athens, what's the next
story that pushes you forward? Well? I wasn't perfect. I lost, right,
(24:32):
I mean, in all seriousness, like it's all about one.
I hated to lose more than nine. So but like
I also know that if I didn't hit a time,
then part of it's probably on me. Right then, probably
I didn't do everything that I could have. And I
learned that, I think really in in two thousand three
(24:55):
two three, I basically tried to tell my coach that
I wanted to do it I way and his way
was not working. And what was your way the way
you were proposing. I wanted it easier, so we we
we all know what kind of results when you get
when you want it the easy way. So that was
that was a learning experience for me because he gave
(25:16):
me the easier program. But then I still expected to
have the great results. It doesn't work. It's not how
it goes, was it, humble Pie going back to him, Yeah,
what was that like if I'm seeing it in a movie.
I mean, I think the biggest thing was just like
when I came back in fourteen, He said to me,
are you ready to do this? And I said, yeah,
well so I'm doing it right. He goes, well, it's
(25:39):
gonna be done my way and there's no other way
to do it. So I knew that. I just had
to check everything else out. I just listened to everything
he had to tell me. He said jump, I to
say how high, just how it works. He probably knew
my body by than I did. He probably knew what
I could do better than I did. So I just
had to trust him and believe him. You can make
all these deposits, these training deposits in the bank. You
(26:02):
can build up such a lead that the matter, It
doesn't matter, that's the thing. So it's like I make
one big withdraw what I mean really every four years, right,
Like that's where I'm trying to make the massive withdrawal
with everything that we've been putting into it. So all
of my hard work and training, I'm looking for the Olympics, right,
(26:23):
I only get that every four years. So that's that's
my biggest goal. How can I get as prepared as
I can for that? So how much money can I
deposit into my my personal body bank to be able
to withdraw when I need it? And if I'm not
doing the work and those lights come on and I'm
not prepared, I'm gonna lose. I'm not gonna swim, I'm
(26:43):
gonna go slow. Two Butterfly, what happened? I got touched up.
I deserve that I didn't prepare for it. Do you
play that over in your mind again and again and again?
I still play that race in my head. Pisses me off?
What play it for me? Now? What am I I'm
and just is it too painful? No? No, no, it's
just I mean I know that you know, if I'm
(27:05):
not long on the first wall, if I'm not long
on the last wall, I went the rece you know,
for me, leading up to that point, I was missing,
you know, a week or two weeks here at a
time of practice. I just wouldn't come because I didn't care.
So it goes back to you get what you deserve. Wow.
So really it's not the moment, it's it's knowing what
(27:29):
was behind the moment. So much of this everything is
happening in places where nobody else is seeing it. It's
like our underarmer spot that we did go into sixteen.
You know, it's what happens behind closed doors, that's what
happens in the dark, That's what brings you out to light.
So every day when I was grinding my you know,
my tail off, I was I'm trying to do everything
(27:50):
I could to give myself a chance. At the end
of the day, you're on the podium with Ryan Hill
and he's in his first international event, he's winning the
(28:12):
gold medal for the first time, and he asks you
basically like came cry like I don't know how to
do this, like I've never been up here before, and
you're just like, dude, let let the emotions go, let
him let him fly out, and and honestly, it was
like just streaming tears. To me. It was something that
(28:39):
I've never seen or like been able to feel because
I was always focused on what I was doing next.
So like being able to for me to experience what
I had throughout my life and then be open enough to,
you know, see the emotions, the raw emotions that that
he was going through, and in that moment, it's just
it's the greatest feeling in the world, right like you're
(29:00):
winning an Olympic medal with your teammates. I mean, I
never ever really cried on the stated on the podium
because I was so conscious of my emotional energy. So
it's something that I had to contain as much as
I could in order to make it a whole eight
day program. So I couldn't let my emotions take over there.
(29:21):
I had to hold everything back. Here's Debbie Phelps once
more when there was supposed to be his last games,
and I had so many parents after me and thank
me for Michael's mentorship, which prior to that time, I'm
not saying Michael did not get involved with the swimmers,
(29:43):
but he was so entrenched by his platform and his program.
I saw that mentoring start then. But then I saw
him going to twelve, when he had such a free
spirited way that he embraced the games in Rio, watching
him transition from a sport that he loves to being
(30:04):
an advocate for clean sport, the next generation of athletes,
watching him be a businessman leading his foundation board, watching
him open up about mental health in reference to talking
about his life. I feel that he is feeling, if
(30:24):
that's the word. I want to use his time well
with his boys, Nicole and his new profession. But sometimes
I think when he's idle, he doesn't want to do
with his time because it was so structured before. Mental
health is very difficult to chase because it's not tangible,
(30:45):
so there's nothing that can be handed to him at
the end of the day. But when he's in the
setting of speaking in front of thousands of people and
somebody stands up and says, I wanted my dream job,
I got my dream job, I'm here at my dream job.
I want to kill myself, and they've never opened up
to anyone before. That's something that Michael can see right
(31:06):
in front of him and see and he sees that
he is making a difference. Everybody has a different definition
of who Michael is in their heart. But I think
the biggest difference and what drives him today is that
purpose of helping people save lives, are helping people live
happier or helping couples remain together because of this awareness
(31:28):
around the mental health stigma that's been in our society
for years. So for so many years you've been you're holding, holding,
holding back, and now you're at a stage where you
can see somebody just best loose into tears. You're a
(31:48):
different person in a way. But I think like the
only reason that allowed me to experience how I did
was probably because of life's process that I was. I
was going through right the up and downs that I
went through too, to almost just take a step back
and try to simplify things, right, like live in that moment,
be present for that, you know that moment. I mean,
(32:09):
I for me, like I felt like a dad on
that team. I mean I was a dad, but I
was the oldest dude, you know, one of the oldest
guys have been around for ever, you know, with thirty
three rookies or thirty two rookies that we had in
that team. I felt like I wanted to try and
take all of them under my wing as much as
I could to try to help them get ready for
the future. Completely different person. Yeah, I mean it's the
(32:30):
first time probably my life that I talked to every
single human being on that team, and I was a
team captain, so it was it was it was a big,
big clothes um to my career. And and you know,
the best way to close my career. So you went
out the way you wanted to go out, and you
enter a new phase of life. How does everything that
(32:51):
you learn in the pool on your journey effect where
you're going now? Well, in reality, it's basically the same thing, right,
because I'm trying to accomplish a goal and that's all
I tried to do in the pool. So it's kind
of weird for me now going through this part of
life because I feel like I've taken more strokes in
(33:13):
the swimming pool than I have taken steps on planet Earth.
Because if you think about it, like I mean, you
heard my day right, like I was sleeping, I was
laying down, I was watching TV, like, I was always
off my feet. So now I'm taking ten fifteen thousand
steps today. My body has to adjust to that. So
I'm basically learning a part of life, just like my
(33:35):
kids are learning now. This is only gets more surreal
to think about that, right, Like it's it's so crazy
because I literally have been in water my whole life,
and now I'm gonna fish out of water, and where
are you taking things for me? Like, I'm very lucky
to have or to start the next chapter of my
(33:57):
life and still be able to do what I love.
I got involved in swimming because my mom wanted me
to be water safe. Water safety is one of the
highest causes of death for children under the age of fourteen,
so I'm trying to teach as many kids as I
can to be water safe. Mental health is something that
I struggle with and have struggled with my whole life.
(34:19):
It's not gonna leave me. I'm still going to have
anxiety issues or anxiety problems, or I'm going to have
depression spells, like just it's just what makes me me
so and I know there are a lot of people
out there that are struggling from the same exact thing.
So being able to help people understand it's okay to
not to be okay, it's okay to go through struggles.
(34:40):
It's okay to ask for help. I didn't want to
ask her help for a long time. But I can't
do everything by myself. So it's like all of these
things that I'm able to learn myself but then also
try to also save a life. Are there ways that
you could still put your goals on the refrigerate or now?
Of course you still they're not there now, but maybe
(35:05):
just need to have them in your mind. No, Like
I I'm old school, I gotta see it. I gotta
write it down. I want pen and paper. I I
want to I want to see why I'm why I'm
getting out of bed every day. The times that I
had my goal sheet where in my closet, every time
I went in my closet to get dressed, I saw them.
So I lived it every day. I obsessed over it.
(35:26):
If I'm writing them down and I'm taking the time
to go through that process, that time is important to me.
It's meaningful to me. I'm gonna do everything in my
life that's going to help me get there and give
me a chance to get there. And if I'm not,
then I might as well just give up. I think
(35:48):
we search for why Michael did what he did and
why he continues to accomplish what he did, and I
think at the end of the day, it comes down
to being willing to do what other people aren't willing
to do. We want instant gratification, but we don't want
to put in the hard work to do it. You
(36:09):
can ask me, is there anything that he did that
we don't know about? But everybody's been privy to what
Michael has done. I mean he trained his butt off,
and a lot of the kids that are coming up
I don't want to put in the hard work and
they don't want to do what he did, and so
they're not going to get to what Michael did. And
that goes with anything. And even I struggle with putting
in the hard work to go do to become better
(36:30):
at something right. And I think that that is what
I witnessed from day one. I mean, it is what's
done in the dark still that you don't recognize. That
is what has created Michael and what will continue to
create Michael. When you think of what you can accomplish now,
(36:51):
saving lives of some kids who might not have gotten
thought of the water, okay, or helping people with mental issues.
Can that be put on a piece of paper, so
that you could say, yeah, this is what I want
to do. I want to say this many people this year.
(37:13):
It might be that, but it might be like ambiguous.
You know, I don't think it's ambiguous at all, because
I mean, if it's your goal and you obviously believe
you can do it, like a goal shouldn't be something
that I can go to bed and then tomorrow accomplish,
you know, like it's a process of it. I have
to have something that's challenging enough, important enough, exciting enough
(37:34):
that's going to keep me interested and engaged to go
through the hardest times. Right, you have to me winning
eight gold medals was something that was exciting enough to
keep me engaged throughout my career. Right So you know,
I'm just putting two and two together. I'm trying to
make this as simple as possible. So you're waking up
(37:56):
now thinking about people who how can I make a difference,
How can I help How can I help somebody who's struggling,
Whether it's from depression, whether it's learned to swim, whether
it's anxiety, it doesn't matter. How can I help somebody
become better? How can I make the world a better place?
It's like you've managed to up the anti challenging, Right,
I'm challenging myself. People thought I was absolutely crazy trying
(38:18):
to win eight gold medals, right I didn't. I imagined it.
I visualized every little part of it how I wanted
to go, I don't want it to go, how it
could go. Can you visualize where you're going to take
your journey now five years down the road, ten years
down the road. And that's the process of what I'm
trying to do now. In reality, it's basically the same thing.
(38:39):
Like what I'm trying to do on land, it's the
same thing that I was trying to do in the pool, right,
it's goal, So now I'm just trying to learn how
to do it on land. Is there a way to
even know what your programs are doing? Like, how would
you know that you saved somebody's life? Well, I mean
you can see based off of how many kids teach
(39:00):
water safety. You know how many kids go through that
class and can feel comfortable enough that if they're in
the pool, they can managed to swim or to get
to safety if they need to. So it's a numbers game.
It's all life is, right, numbers times seconds. So the
(39:22):
other question is how do you define time. It's the
one thing we don't have. It's a one resource that
we're never going to be able to get back. We're
always gonna run out of time. So how do you
manage your time? What do you do with the time
that you're giving. If it's focused on what you're trying
to achieve, then you're probably gonna have a pretty damn
good shot at getting there. The Only Way is Through
(39:50):
is the collaboration between Under Armour and I Heart Media.
The show is produced by Ali's Conway Kelly and Bondile,
Andy Kelly, Brian Ray and Russ axel Rod in partnership
with Ryan Ovadia, Daniel Ainsworth, Haley Ericsson and Garret Shannon
of Banter. This has been the only Way is Through
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