Behind The Badge: My Journey In Law Enforcement

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome one and all to the Professional Homegirl Podcast. Before
we begin today's episode, we want to remind you that
the views and opinions expressed on this podcast are those
of the host and guests and are intended for educational
and entertaining purposes. In this safe space, no question is
off limits because you never know how someone's storyline can
be your lifeline. The Professional Homegirl Podcast is here to

(00:22):
celebrate the diverse voices, stories and experiences of women of color,
providing a platform for authentic and empowering conversations. There will
be some key king, some tears, but most importantly a
reminder that tough times don't last, but professional homegirls do
enjoy the show.

Speaker 2 (00:49):
Hello professional Homegirls, ishiger everyday here and I hope all
is cute now. On this week's episode of the Professional
Homegirl Podcast, Down with a professional homegirl who spent nearly
twenty years serving and protecting her community. My guest share
is was really like to work in law enforcement? Now?

(01:09):
The game, the male dominated feel carrying the weight of
the badge while balancing it all with real life. We
talk about the highs, the heartbreaks, the tough decisions, and
the moments that made it all worth it. You know,
I really enjoyed this episode. You all. This conversation was
so amazing because my guest not only was she raw

(01:32):
and powerful, but this conversation was a reminder of the
strength it takes to stand on the front lines while
navigating the complex realities of being black and wearing blue.
So get ready because behind the badge, my journey in
law enforcement starts now. All right, to my guests, thank

(01:53):
you so much for being on the show. How are
you feeling, how you doing?

Speaker 3 (01:56):
Thank you for having me. I feel good. I felt good.
Today's a good day. We're here. Okay, it's not me.
It's raining, but we're here, so it's okay.

Speaker 2 (02:04):
It's a good day. I feel nice and relaxed, like
I feel ready to conquer the day. So I feel
good too.

Speaker 3 (02:10):
Yeah, it's a good day.

Speaker 2 (02:12):
Listen. I am so excited to share your story. I
know when niggas see you, maybe like, yeah, you could
take me to jail. Baby. How many niggas try to
hit on you.

Speaker 3 (02:19):
Only do how many times I've heard that, Like, especially
back when I was in uniform every day, every single day,
anybody cute, It didn't even matter because I know I'm
going to jail, And even if it was somebody who
wasn't going to jail, it was someone who was just
saying that. For me, I'm like, if you would even

(02:40):
say that to me, you're not my type.

Speaker 2 (02:43):
Yeah that's what she's saying, y'all. But she a bad
of y'all. I know, niggas hitting her at the station
all day every day.

Speaker 3 (02:51):
Listen between them and the coworkers. The girl, it's a mess.

Speaker 4 (02:55):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (02:56):
Well, let's start from the beginning. What kind of kid
were you growing up?

Speaker 3 (02:59):
Like?

Speaker 2 (02:59):
Were you you always draw into like protecting people.

Speaker 3 (03:03):
I am the eldest daughter.

Speaker 2 (03:05):
Oh, there you go. That makes sense me too.

Speaker 3 (03:09):
As the eldest daughter is like, I've always taken care
of my younger siblings Like this side. I have three
younger siblings, so I've always been the protector of them.

Speaker 2 (03:21):
Mm hmm.

Speaker 3 (03:22):
I mean so it was in me. I didn't want
to be a cop, but I guess just the way
that I grew up, it kind of God makes no mistakes,
so it worked out the way it was supposed to.

Speaker 2 (03:34):
Yeah, we have a lot in common I have. I'm
the oldest other and I have three younger siblings too.
Oh do you yeah, all girls.

Speaker 4 (03:41):
Listen the eldest daughter, girl, right, listen, the eldest daughter, Siria,
it is stressful that part, but.

Speaker 3 (03:53):
It prepared me. I'll say it did help prepare me.
But yeah, eldest daughter.

Speaker 2 (03:58):
So tell them about the first time when you you
know what, I want to be a cop. Like where
sparked that moment.

Speaker 3 (04:06):
I never thought I want to be a cop, like
that thought that some people have like as kids, Oh,
I want to be a cop. I want to, you know,
save the day. Say that was never me. Oh, I
actually wanted to be a veterinarian.

Speaker 2 (04:21):
Oh wow.

Speaker 3 (04:22):
I went to school for pre veterinary medicine, Like literally
went to college for pre veterinary medicine. But you know,
the first two three weeks you get your first exam.
Mine was like the a diagram of a cow with
all the parts labeled and you had to match them up.
And I was like, I'm not doing this. So I
literally got up in the middle of that class of

(04:43):
the test, walked out, switched my major from pre veterinary
medicine to criminal justice. But even then, I didn't want
to be a cop. I wanted to be a forensic psychologist.

Speaker 2 (04:55):
M But smart.

Speaker 1 (04:59):
I try to be.

Speaker 2 (05:00):
I didn't keep it.

Speaker 3 (05:00):
Going, but I mean, obviously even that didn't happen. So
a little bit of my backstory. The beginning of my
junior year, I got a phone call that my mother
was ill and she was hospitalized and she would be
in the hospital for quite some time. And at the time,
those younger siblings were miners, and he wasn't in the
picture at that moment. You know, he had his own

(05:22):
things that he was dealing with. And so at that call,
I literally packed up my dorm room and dropped out
and went home to take care of my family. So,
oh wow, I was twenty. It was the beginning of
my junior year, and I had to become an adult overnight.
So I had to find a job to supplement income.
I had to put food on the table, clothes on backs,

(05:43):
paid the mortgage or at least as much as I could.
You know, I'm doing homework and baths and parent teacher
conferences a single mom power of attorney like all of
that overnight, and it was a lot. So forward to
my mother getting better and me trying to go back

(06:05):
to school. So living in the area that I lived
in and then traveling like an hour to school every day.
So I would work from eight am to four am,
get out of work, hop on the main rule to
get to where I was going. It was an hour
and a half in traffic. So I would get the class,
sitting class from five thirty to eight thirty, then try

(06:25):
to go to the library to do my papers and
my studying and assignments. I would leave there at like
one twelve am, one o'clock in the morning, stop at
a rest stop, set my alarm for five am, sleep,
get up, drive the rest of the way home, get dressed,
and go back to work. And I did that Monday
through Thursday for a year. Oh wow, it got to

(06:47):
be too much, so I was like, I couldn't do it.
Of course I dropped out again, and so then I'm
just working. So then fast forward. My mother is retired
law enforcement, so at this time she's on the job,
and she had been trying to get me to take
the Civil Service Exam, which is the exam that you

(07:07):
take in order to become law enforcement in a lot
of states, specifically this state. So she was like, so
I she came home from work and I was in
my room crying. She's like, what's wrong. And I'm like, listen,
I just got paid. I just paid my car, note,
car insurance, credit card bill, cell phone.

Speaker 2 (07:27):
Bill that didn't have me self here. So many times we.

Speaker 3 (07:30):
Did loan bill for the degree that I did not
have because remember I dropped out earlier. And I was like,
I only have twenty six dollars left. And I'm like,
that's not enough to put gas in my car for
the next two weeks, let alone for me to live.
And I'm like, I'm doing this the right way. I'm
doing everything I'm supposed to do, and it's not getting like,
it's not getting me and this is not enough. I
can't live off of this. And my mother was like, well, listen,

(07:53):
if you take the Civil Service exam like I've been
asking you to, I will pay your card, not and
inssurance for a year, okay.

Speaker 2 (08:00):
And I look like, bet any guys stay with nothing
more once? Baby?

Speaker 3 (08:05):
What say less? We weren't say less than, but I
was like, stay less. And so I took the exam
and I scored extremely high, and I got certified by
several different departments, and I went with the one that
I felt was the best at the time, and I
went into State corrections and I was I went to
the academy and I was a state corrections officer.

Speaker 2 (08:27):
Oh y'all, no, you don't play no games, baby, and
don't and don't listen me and my guess. When I
see her out, I make sure I am close by
because I know if anything was a pop all, I
know I am good hands if she's nearby.

Speaker 3 (08:44):
And it does not matter if I am in boots, flats,
a five inch heels, a gown.

Speaker 2 (08:50):
I know you got that shrap ready.

Speaker 3 (08:52):
It's on. Where she is my buddy.

Speaker 2 (08:54):
Wherever I go, she goes listen. And it is another
young lady that I met, and she he's also a
detective too, and she was like, hey me, my purse
right there, and I'm like okay, And I was like, dude,
what you got to hear? It feels heavy as hell.
She was like, I got my shruck. I said, okay, listen.

Speaker 3 (09:11):
Anytime that happened to me and somebody's like, what you
got in here? I'm like, you know what I got
in there?

Speaker 2 (09:15):
They're like, oh, you play no games. I'm like, bet
say less. I wish somebody would pop off.

Speaker 3 (09:20):
And it's not even a matter of me trying to
super cop. It's just a matter of like, this world
is crazy right now. So I don't know that I
could live with myself if something happened and I didn't
have the tools and resources that I need.

Speaker 2 (09:34):
The tools and resources, that's what we're calling it.

Speaker 3 (09:38):
That was on my call. I mean, but to do what, yeah,
to do like it is my job to protect. I'm not.
I'm not that person that's like all my cop stuff
twenty four to seven. But if I and something happens,
I'm going to do my job. I'm going to respond. Yeah,
I'm going to make sure my girl is on me
at all time. Right.

Speaker 2 (09:57):
Did JR. Mom or like your siblings ever have to
have a converse about that time period where you had
to step up, because that's a lot of responsibility for
a twenty year old.

Speaker 3 (10:06):
It wasn't really a conversation. It was just I just
did it. Yeah, when I got that phone call, I
did not even think about not going home. It wasn't
a thought at all. It was just like, okay, all right,
I'll be there, right. And I did my siblings, I mean,
they understood what it was. Mommy was in the hospital,
and so I had always been the eldest daughter, right,

(10:29):
so used to me kind of taking care of them
to a certain extent. Not to say that my mother
didn't take care of us, because she is an amazing mother,
like my boo, I love her so much. But I
was the eldest daughter, so you know, they knew that.
They were used to me bossing them around when we
were younger. So yeah, I remember when we were kids.

(10:50):
We used to my mother would be like, clean up
and I would give I would delegate assignments to them,
and I would be the supervisor. They're like here she go,
y'all cleaning up and I would be supervising. So but yeah,
fast forward to that time. It was challenging, but we
got through it.

Speaker 2 (11:10):
Yeah. So are your siblings or anybody else besides your
mother's surprise that you are in law enforcement because you've
been doing this for almost twenty years, right, I.

Speaker 3 (11:17):
Am in my eighteenth year. Wow, eighteenth year, and I
can't believe it. It's like it's been a journey. But
when I think back, I remember the very first day
of my first academy because I've been through too, but
I remember the first day like it was yesterday.

Speaker 2 (11:33):
And were you nervous, hopeful, Like, how are you feeling nervous?

Speaker 3 (11:37):
I kind of knew what to expect because again, my
mother is on the job, so she told me what
to expect. But I was nervous. I knew I wouldn't
get it through. Like I didn't have any doubts about
making it through, but I just it's just nerve wracking.
It was residential, so I had to live there Monday
through Friday. It was for corrections, so I couldn't have

(12:00):
my phone. They were, you know, conditioning us to be
in a jail or a prison without your phone, so
I didn't have contact with the outside world. It was
It's a lot. I hated it.

Speaker 2 (12:10):
Yeah, that's a big shift from going from a large
family and being outside being do your thing to being
on lockdown down.

Speaker 3 (12:18):
Yeah, I hated it. I hated every second of it.

Speaker 1 (12:23):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (12:23):
I can only imagine. So when you first started out, Like,
what did you think the job would be compared to
what it is now?

Speaker 3 (12:30):
Well, I mean the job when I first started is
different from what I do now, just because of the
starting in corrections and then transitioning over to policing. So
but like when I first started, the job, kind of
was what I expected it to be, And I guess
that's because my mother was in the job. My mother

(12:50):
was a corrections officer, so somewhat knew what to expect
going into it. But I was very nervous going into
the prison, like just anxiety, Like I knew I would
be good, but I'm walking into a prison with a
bunch of people who were incarcerated. I don't really like
the word inmate anymore. I don't. I try not to

(13:12):
use that word anymore. That's a whole other conversation. But
incarcerated persons like that that wasn't my lifestyle, were men
or women. I was a men and the prison that
I worked at, the men who were there were from
age like eighteen to like thirty five, so they were
younger guys. So it was really interesting going into a

(13:34):
space where those that age range of men are the
men who would be hollering at me. Yeah, right, because
I started at twenty three, so I was there with
like my age groups, So okay a certain extent. Yeah,
interesting because I was navigating, like making sure that I

(13:55):
showed up fair, firm, and consistent. That's something that we
learned in the academy and stuff with with me. I didn't.
I wasn't the person who was going to overdo it.
But I also wasn't the person who was going to
be taking advantage.

Speaker 2 (14:08):
Of Yeah, because the moment they see weakness, it's a rap.

Speaker 3 (14:11):
Rap And so I had to come in with like
that strong demeanor. And it's interesting because some of them
would say, Yo, she's mad, cool, and then other ones
would say, yo, she's a bitch.

Speaker 2 (14:21):
Right.

Speaker 3 (14:22):
And my model was, you get what you give to me.
If you come at me with respect, then you're going
to get that back. If you come and me crazy,
then I'm going to have to handle you accordingly. And
so you know, and when I say handle accordingly, I
wasn't the person to put my hands on somebody like unjustly.
But they knew, Like, but I'm.

Speaker 2 (14:39):
Going to match your energy, like they knew what it was.

Speaker 3 (14:43):
That was my record.

Speaker 2 (14:45):
Hmm, you know I spoke to I don't know if
you listened to the last episode I did. I accidentally
took someone's life and she was a CEO and very unfortunate,
very sad story, like you have to listen to it.
But to make a long story short, she was on
her way to work she was a law abiding citizen,
never been into any issues obviously because she worked in

(15:06):
law enforcement and a person cut her off on her
way to work, which caused her to have a very
severe accident and somebody died in the result of it,
and she got it got put on her so right,
it's so sad. So so we was talking and for
a period of time while she was in jail, she

(15:28):
was somewhat paralyzed and she was in a wheelchair, and
she was just saying, how you know, she saw the
difference between women prison and men prison and how she
was like, she used to be a CEO or for
a men's prison and it was way more easier than
working being in a woman prison. And she was saying,
how women prisons are just like ruthless.

Speaker 3 (15:50):
I could see that. Yeah, I've never worked in a
women's prison, but I could definitely see especially being a
woman working in prison. So if you think about society
as a whole, where unfortunately I don't subscribe to this,
but there are unfortunately too many women who do subscribe
to cattiness and patting, you know, that type of jealousy

(16:14):
and nonsense. As women's prison is just a microcosm of society.
I have that type of environment where the women who
are incarcerated have been traumatized, They've gone through things, they've
experienced things where they're not operating at their best sells
for them to even be incarcerated in the first place.

(16:36):
Then you have women who are the officers on top
of that telling them what to do. It just it
creates a dynamic that's actually a documentary or study somebody
should do like it just should creates a dynamic where
I could, like, women who I know who are CEOs
have always said that it's been harder for them to
work in a women's prison than a men's.

Speaker 2 (16:57):
And you would think it would be harder to be
work with men.

Speaker 3 (17:02):
Women wanting to fight you all the time and stuff
like that, where you don't, at least I didn't experience
that when I worked in a men's prison, and I
worked there just under a year before I transitioned to policing.
But I didn't experience guys wanting to fight me all
the time. I experienced the men who were incarcerated trying

(17:22):
to holler at me or trying to get over on me,
trying to get something that they weren't supposed to get,
like if it was extra time out of their cells
or extra food or smoke or path stuff like that.
But that's them trying to see if they can get
you to do something small that you're not so they
can condition you to something bigger.

Speaker 2 (17:42):
Yeah. Yeah, So talk about that transition from being a
CEOs and now into policing.

Speaker 3 (17:50):
Yeah. So, while I was at the prison, I got
certified by another department and I actually wasn't going to leave.
But one of my friends, he had gone through the
academy with me and went to the same prison as
me and got certified by that same department at the
same time. And I was talking to him about it

(18:10):
and he was I was like, I'm not going to leave,
Like I'm here, I've gone through the academy. My coworkers
know how I am. At the time when I was
using that phrase, the inmates know how I am. Like
I'm good, I'm chilling. He was like, if you don't
bring your ass with me, this person, like, why would
you choose to intentionally be stuck in a prison for
the next twenty five years of your progrem We have

(18:32):
the opportunity to transition out and then be able to
do so many different things, And so because of him,
I took the new job. But I had to go
through another academy because there's a difference in the certification
between policing, between corrections and policing. Yeah, director's academy is
preparing you to be inside of a jail or a prison,
where policing is preparing you to work outside of it.

(18:55):
So I went through another academy and it was it
was it was a lot, you know, being the only
black woman in the academy. But I was the only
black woman, he was the only black man. It was
us against the world the colonizes, and they treated us
that way too.

Speaker 2 (19:15):
Oh wow. And how long is the what's the time
frame for the academy?

Speaker 3 (19:18):
Like? Is it a year or five to six months?

Speaker 2 (19:23):
Mm?

Speaker 3 (19:24):
Like anywhere between twenty to twenty five weeks?

Speaker 2 (19:27):
Oh wow? And you felt every bit of it?

Speaker 3 (19:30):
Yeah, every single bit of it.

Speaker 2 (19:34):
H But are you glad that looking back? Are you
happy that he pulled you with him, because what do
you think your life would have looked like if you
would have still have been a CEO for twenty something years?

Speaker 3 (19:44):
I am one thousand percent happy that he convinced me
to leave I don't think that my life as a
CEO would have been bad. I know I would have
made rank by now. I know I'm at eighteen years
in and I test, well, I probably would have been
I probably would be a captain by now, lieutenant our captain. Yeah,

(20:07):
but the quality of life is just not great.

Speaker 1 (20:10):
You are.

Speaker 3 (20:12):
Essentially incarcerated too, Like for that eight to sixteen hours
that you're there, you're there. There's no access to outside life.
You can't just go take a walk, you can't just
go get lunch. Yeah, you could get stuck if something happens,
you know, And as as dangerous as it is policing
on the outside, it's just as dangerous, if not more,

(20:35):
as what CEOs I call policing on the inside.

Speaker 1 (20:39):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (20:39):
I used to date the COEO. He was so fine,
but he used to be a cl He was so fine.
He was a she laughing y'all. But he was a
CEO at rikers.

Speaker 3 (20:49):
And like when huh, they don't do it?

Speaker 2 (20:52):
Reconsidered listen recent litter because he was miserable, like and
then I didn't understand, you know, well, you're not in
that world. You're like, where are you at? Like it's
three o'clock and he'd be like, we locked down, like
it was a crazy fight. Next thing, you know, the
inmates fight and the police officer, so we just can't leave.
Like He'll be stuck thirt until like like twenty four

(21:13):
thirty six hours. And I'm like, nah, this is crazy to.

Speaker 3 (21:17):
Keep a go back in my car just in case
I got locked down and needed to get like a
change of clothes, a change of underwear, toothbrush, like, you know,
if if I even had the opportunity to go to
my car to get it. Yeah, but yeah, that's real.
And the fighting all the time is real, especially in
the prison I was in. Those young boys fought all

(21:37):
the time. I was in the best shape of my life.

Speaker 2 (21:39):
I bet you were.

Speaker 3 (21:41):
I was burning from one end to the prison to
the other end every day when they called out that code,
I'm running from one end to the next. That's just
what it was.

Speaker 2 (21:51):
Yeah, y'all should definitely listen to the episode I did
with she's retired now, but she was a CoA Rikers.
You said you listened to it and that was a
really good conversation.

Speaker 3 (22:01):
Yeah, and I understood what she was talking about, even
though I was only a CEO for just under a year.
I related to everything that she was saying, and not
for nothing. I think that every officer should. It's my belief.
Everyone doesn't agree with this, but a lot of people do.
Every officer should be a CEO first before they go

(22:21):
out to the streets, in my opinion.

Speaker 2 (22:23):
And why is that?

Speaker 3 (22:24):
Because as a CEO you learn interpersonal skills, you learn
communication skills, you learn how to speak to people, how
to de escalate verbal judo. You know, when I am
in the prison and I'm working a housing unit, and
I'm on a tier and there are a hundred guys
who are living on that tier, and I walk down
a tier and if I open the doors and half

(22:45):
of them come out, So there's fifty guys out. Am
I going to be tough tony right? Or people with
respect and treat them with respect? Right, even though they're incarcerated,
that doesn't mean that they don't still deserve respect. Now
you come at me crazy, then I'm gonna address you accordingly, but.

Speaker 2 (23:04):
Crazy in the.

Speaker 3 (23:06):
Right. But I'm not going to just pop off on
somebody unnecessarily. I'm putting myself at risk. Right, These are
guys as tough as I might be. I'm still a woman,
right fun of them hit me the wrong way. If
one of them decides that they want to sexually assault me,
I mean, I'm going to fight until the end. But
essentially these guys could end up doing whatever they wanted

(23:28):
to do to me. So I have to operate in
a way where I'm treating them with respect so that
I can get that in return. It's reciprocal. Yeah, when
I don't have all of those tools around my back,
around my belt inside of the prison, like I don't
have a gun, a taser, I don't have any of that.
I have, you know, a key for it to open

(23:50):
the to unlock the gates, and like I have a
radio with a little red button on it that I
can hit while I'm getting my ask if I can.

Speaker 1 (24:01):
Get to it.

Speaker 2 (24:02):
Wait, so you didn't have a gun on are you?

Speaker 3 (24:05):
There are no guns inside of jails or prisons.

Speaker 2 (24:07):
I mean, I guess that would make sense, because God
forbid if one of the inmates get it. That's a
wrap exactly.

Speaker 3 (24:13):
Absolutely no guns inside of jails or prisons. Mmmm.

Speaker 2 (24:17):
Okay, So we're going to get into your first day
on the job as a police officer. But I want
to know your thoughts about all of the corruption that
goes on with the prisons, because you have people either
having babies with the people who are incarcerated, you have
people that's like hustling and like it's just so much
corruption that's going on, or even with the sexual assault
and things of that nature, like what do you think
about that and what can what can be done to

(24:40):
make it better?

Speaker 3 (24:42):
I mean, there's a lot of that that goes on.
There's a lot more of that that doesn't happen. Let
me start with that. You know, the bad things tend
to be highlighted, and I agree. You know, so there
are a lot more officers who are not engaging in
that behavior. But for those who are, is like was
it already in their character or was it a matter

(25:05):
of them slowly being conditioned? You know, the people who
are in prison or jail, they don't have anything but
time to study you, right, And so I used to
say to my coworkers, like when I was working, I'm like,
do not use my first name, Do not talk about
like where I'm from, Like I don't. I wouldn't talk
about like restaurants that I went to, just in casual

(25:27):
conversation with my coworkers because those guys are listening to
everything we say. Talk about who my football team was,
because then they would know what area of the state
I was from. I like, I kept it real general
because I did not want people to know anything about
me so that they could try to use certain thing
or find out what it's like, find out who my

(25:50):
mother is, find out who my siblings are, target them
to try to get me to do something that they
wanted me to do. Like I just I was very
cognizant of that stuff. And maybe it's because my mother
was on the job, but I was like, I'm not
with it, and I made sure that my reputation was
they know she ain't the one like in housing unit
because I'm the young, cute, shit right, brand new. I

(26:13):
come on the housing unit. All of a sudden, these
jokers got their shirts off or they they doing pull ups,
they doing push ups, and I wasn't with it. I
was like, put some clothes on or lock in. Oh,
you can't tell me what to do. I'm telling you
put some clothes on to night. It's your choice. Here's

(26:37):
one and they will put some clothes on or there
were some like man, fuck this I'm locking in this
got me fucked up, it's your choice right in doing
that and making that name for myself. They knew I
wasn't with the ships like they I wasn't that chick
that they could get that off on. So I never

(26:57):
had a situation and granted again, I was only there
for less than a year, but I never had a
situation where someone asked me to do something I wasn't
supposed to do, or put or bring something in or
m or any of them tried to come at me sexually.
I had like one blow a kissed at me or
something like that, but I just like I wrote him up,
like you know, like but they knew, yeah, he was new,

(27:19):
and it got to the point where they would police themselves.
So if there was a new guy at the prison
who didn't know that and he would start, the other
ones be like no, no, no, no, no, chill, chill, chill,
we got him. We got him, Like get your boy.
No no, no, no, no, no, we got him. We
got him. Were good because I used the and I
guess maybe I got this from the academy, But it's

(27:40):
like if one messes up, you all mess up. So
if one person disrespects me. Everybody on the housing unit
feels it. Yeah, and where they would police themselves.

Speaker 2 (27:49):
So its the one sound one this bitch.

Speaker 1 (27:53):
Y'all.

Speaker 2 (27:53):
Bet tell old boy, listen.

Speaker 3 (28:07):
Now.

Speaker 2 (28:07):
You spoke about how certain things in academy it felt
very it was very real, like being that you were
the only black woman and as well as your partner.
What were some of those things that you felt, if
you can speak about because of your race, you felt
like it was like something's not right.

Speaker 3 (28:25):
I felt like they scrutinized me a lot more than
some of my parts. There weren't a lot of us
in the class. We started with thirty five and I
think we graduated thirty two, so it wasn't a huge class.
But it was one black man, one black woman, and
I think there might have been eight wo men in
that class. And I definitely was treated differently than the others.

(28:48):
They were a lot harder on me when it came
to the physical aspect of it. They couldn't come at
me when it came to the academic part of it
because I'm intelligent, like I didn't. I didn't have issues
with the testing or the academic aspect of it, but
the physical and then just the rest of the day
to day, like in the academy, were always wrong, even.

Speaker 2 (29:11):
When we're right, we're wrong right.

Speaker 3 (29:14):
But for me, it was like above and beyond. So
I remember specifically so in my first academy for corrections,
I developed asthma I had as an adult. I had
my first asthma attack on the PT field like a girl,
and so thankfully it was like a Friday, so Saturday,

(29:35):
I got cleared by my doctor and was able to
return to the academy. But fast forward to my second academy,
the physical aspect of it was a lot harder for
me than it was the first time, because now I
have asthma where I didn't have it.

Speaker 2 (29:48):
Before, and so I'm interested.

Speaker 3 (29:51):
I taught myself how to run through an asthma attack.
Like we'd be running for miles and miles and miles,
I'd be having an asthma attack. I taught myself how
to push through because I was like, I'm not quitting,
I'm not getting kicked out of this academy. And so
the physical part was a lot harder for me, and
I remember one specific day, PT was grueling, the physical

(30:12):
part of it, but I pushed through. I had an
asthma attack in the middle of it. I pushed through,
and so one of the instructors at the end of
our PT session came up to me. He's like, yo,
I saw you pushing through, like you did your thing.
Like I'm proud of you.

Speaker 2 (30:30):
You did your thing, and you didn't have your pump,
did you?

Speaker 3 (30:33):
I have my pump. But another instructor was like, nah,
she didn't fucking do anything. She was fucking sandbagging. She'd
fuck her because this is when they could talk to
us like that's in the academy. Fuck her, she didn't
do anything. She was fucking sandbagging. She doesn't get any
kudos for that. Fuck her, Go get in line, and
like yelled at me to go get in line. That

(30:55):
shit pissed me off so much because I'm like, yo,
I am bustling my behind out here, and like, again,
you're always wrong in the academy, but this specific day,
I was like, I ain't with it today, but I
maintain my academy bearing. I didn't say anything to him,
even because.

Speaker 2 (31:14):
I would have been like, nigga, you got me fuck up.

Speaker 3 (31:17):
That's what was going on in my head.

Speaker 2 (31:19):
I would have gotten that nigga face, but you got annything.

Speaker 3 (31:22):
You're academy, are you right? Why I get kicked out?

Speaker 2 (31:26):
So and you came this far and not to come
this far exactly.

Speaker 3 (31:29):
So, at the end of the day, when we're getting
ready to leave, he's giving us our you know, summary
of the day, our marching orders for that night, whatever
homework we're going to have, and we're supposed to look
at him, like we're supposed to sit straight up looking
at him, and I'm looking, but I'm not looking at him.
I'm kind of looking next to him, like I'm not
giving him the eye contact that he wants m and

(31:53):
he goes off like crash out. That's what they say now,
crash out. He crashed out in the podium. He was
he was like, you don't fucking treat me this way.
You fucking look at me when I'm talking to you.
And he picked up the podium and like flung it,
like tried to throw it at me. And I'm sitting
there and I'm looking. Now I'm looking at him, and

(32:15):
I have like, you know, the black girl, resting bitch face.
I don't say black girl, but the resting bitch face.

Speaker 2 (32:21):
You know what I'm talking about like, nigga, I wish
you would, because.

Speaker 3 (32:25):
At this point I'm not saying anything, but I'm looking
like I dare you. I dare you because in my mind,
I'm like, I will own this entire academy. I will
own this entire state. I promise you, I will sue
the shit out of all of y'all if you put
your hands on me. I promise you, I will sue
all of y'all. Like, this is what my face is saying.
And I think he caught it because he calmed down,

(32:47):
and he walked out, and somebody else came in and
dismissed us for the day. But I didn't forget that
there was nobody else in that class who he had
ever treated that way, even the biggest fuck ups of
the class, even those who could never get it together.
He had never ever ever treated any of them that way,

(33:08):
so far to the point where he damn near hits
them with a podium.

Speaker 2 (33:12):
Now, I don't want to play the game guess what
race that is? I don't want to ask the question.

Speaker 3 (33:21):
You already know.

Speaker 2 (33:21):
But that was just one of you know, But why
do you think he had a personal vendennag issue? Like
and he I know he ain't treat the black man
like that. They messed with him too, but not so
for they threw a podium at him. No, not they
didn't throw a qodium at him, but they definitely messed
with him too. I mean, I can say that during

(33:42):
that police academy, they messed with the two of us
so much that I was like, I'm not quitting. I
will never quit, but once I'm done, I'm suing them.
I was in regulations of the academy. I was like,
because something is off. This is like the the treatment
between us and the other recruits is so disparaging, Like nah, no,

(34:02):
you no, it's so crazy. I just had an a
high moment because being that you're a woman, he wanted
to evoke fearing you because he's a man, and probably
with your partner, he probably wanted to emasculate him and
fuck with him mentally.

Speaker 3 (34:14):
That could definitely be it right, probably onto something, but
I just I wasn't with it.

Speaker 2 (34:19):
I was like, nah.

Speaker 3 (34:20):
And I think by the end of the academy class
it got to the point, and this is something that
I experienced throughout my career. I think they got to
the point where they were like Okay, we are not
instilling fearing her. We can't beat her, maybe we should
join her because of the way that I presented, because
I was intelligent, because I spoke a certain way, calm too,

(34:44):
because I carried myself a certain way. Because of I
think that they felt like I was palatable, so I
could be the black face quote unquote.

Speaker 1 (34:55):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (34:56):
So not realizing that just because I speak a certain way,
just because I'm intelligent, just because I carry myself a
certain way, doesn't mean that I am not like fist
in the air like power to the people because I
am them. It was like, Okay, we can't beat her,
let's join her, Let's make her, you know, kind of

(35:17):
like the face. So fast forward to my career, it
was the same thing. Like I had supervisors who tried
to mess with me in the beginning, and I would
make it clear like I'm not that person that you
can get that off on. You're not going to treat
me a certain way, You're not going to instill fear
in me, You're not going to attempt to write me

(35:37):
up for nonsense so that you can get stuff on
my jacket. So that fast forward, I can't go to
specialized units and I can't get like. It's very strategic
in how they do certain things. And I recognized they
were trying to do it, and I nipped it in
the bud early. It was just like so one of
the things that they always taught us is that our
pen is one of our most mighty weapons in policing.

(36:00):
If it's not on paper, it didn't happen. Right for me,
I remembered that, and I write, well, again, I'm intelligent,
so and I'm not gonna say that. I'm just gonna
say I am probably more intelligent than a lot of
my colleagues. I'll leave it at that, right, but especially

(36:24):
going into this particular department and supervisors who would try
to write me up for nonsense, and I would confront
them in the moment like, Okay, the captain is telling
you to write me up for this nonsense, but you
know it's nonsense. I know it's nonsense you need to do.
But I'm gonna see you m hm. So I'm not

(36:47):
telling you what to do because you are my supervisor,
you're my sergeant. I'm not here to tell you what
to do.

Speaker 2 (36:52):
But play with something else that's safe, because I ain't
gonna want.

Speaker 3 (36:56):
To do. But they would try to do that and
when they saw it wasn't working, and they saw how
I interacted with the community, how people gravitated towards, how
people enjoyed me, and how I did my job, how
I could make people do what they were supposed to do.
I could de escalate like I was good at my job.
It transitioned to oh shit, let's let's use her. Yeah, right,

(37:21):
And in that I took advantage of.

Speaker 2 (37:24):
That as you should.

Speaker 3 (37:25):
They were using me. I used them back. Every training
that I asked to go to, it was granted, right,
So I stacked my resume. Opportunities that came to me,
I stacked my resumee. I had the opportunity to be
on loan to a task force, like a federal task force,
again to stack my resume like specialized units. So it

(37:48):
helped me for you know. So they started out not
liking me, and then it was that we can't beat her,
so let's join her. And then they did. And then
the table switched when they asked me to do the
things weren't I wasn't supposed to do, and when I
said no, then the table switch and it was now
target her. Yeah, because I had used that time to

(38:09):
stack my resume. It helped me and that time to
build my network and people to see my work product,
how I am, what my true character is, not what
these people were trying to say that I was right.
It built such a network that it was helpful for

(38:30):
me to leave and go somewhere where I was more
appreciated and value.

Speaker 2 (38:34):
Yeah, listen, y'all, when I tell you our guests, you
are definitely strategic. Because she'd be outside and even when
I was, I was on your Instagram page and I
was like, wait, I need to ask her to come
on the show, because I can tell how the different
speaking engagements you have done, the different volunteer opportunities you've
been a part of, like you could just you can
tell through the pictures how people gravitate towards you and

(38:55):
how they really respect you. And I think that's a
great thing to have, especially with you me and a
black woman and the relationship between black people and police,
and I think you do a really good job with
repairing it.

Speaker 3 (39:06):
Thank you.

Speaker 2 (39:07):
That's why I was like, I got to have you
on the show because yeah, and just to know what
you've been through up until now, it's like that is crazy.

Speaker 3 (39:16):
That's that's just, that's one percent.

Speaker 1 (39:19):
Right.

Speaker 3 (39:19):
Career has been. But it's you know, I appreciate you
saying that, because I truly do believe that my journey
to this profession was all God. Again, I seem to
be a cop. I had no desire to be a cop,
but the just the way that my life happened, it
led me to it. And I do believe that I
am walking in my purpose. I'm supposed to be here,

(39:40):
I would not be as passionate about it. Yes, I
wasn't supposed to be here, like, I am extremely committed
to making sure that this job is done the right
way on my watch. Yeah right, I'm a person I
truly believe in procedural justice.

Speaker 2 (39:54):
Like I'm not going to procedural justice.

Speaker 3 (39:58):
Yeah, it's like, it doesn't mean that I'm not holding
people accountable when they like I'm still doing my job,
but I'm making sure that it's done fair. I'm making
sure that it's done equitably like its people aren't going
to be railroaded on my watch. I'm not going to
let that happen. Or when victims who look like us

(40:20):
come in and they feel like they're being revictimized by
the system, and they're being revictimized by people who are
supposed to be in their corner but don't understand them.
They don't look like them, they don't understand the way
that they speak, they don't understand the way that they
were raised, they don't understand the culture right. And then
I come in with a level of cultural competency that

(40:40):
the people around them before did not have and make
these people feel seen and heard and valued and supported
and appreciated and supported, and like that's important to me,
you know what I mean, Just making sure that the
community knows that there is somebody on this side of
the fence or the coin or whatever doing things the

(41:00):
right way, who actually has their best interest at heart.

Speaker 2 (41:03):
And who cares right.

Speaker 3 (41:06):
I truly do. Like even when I was in uniform,
people knew, like, again, she cool, but she's gonna do
her job. She's cool, Like she's When I can use discretion,
I absolutely will. But in moments that I can't, I can't,
but I can't. It's going to be fair to you,

(41:27):
you know what I mean, Like you're not going to
be treated wrong, You're not going to have hands put
on you unnecessarily. Now, am I saying that I've never
had to lay hands on anybody. No, it comes with
the job. There have been people who tried to hurt me,
or people who I was trying to arrest who were resisting,
where yes I did have to get them under control.

Speaker 2 (41:43):
I know you can be a bitch down perfect. No,
she's trying to be humble.

Speaker 3 (41:48):
Yeah, I'll say this. You know, people tend to make
yep because they see me and I don't present like
a cop. If I don't tell people that I'm a cop,
nine times out of ten, they would not think.

Speaker 2 (42:03):
I'm telling y'all, she a baddie. She's small at the.

Speaker 3 (42:05):
Tea, hair done, nails done, everything did.

Speaker 2 (42:10):
Listen. Every time I see how y'all, I'm telling my
beat to the gods. Okay, outfits be snatched. I'm like, listen,
if people only knew, because I could tell you how
you give it up.

Speaker 3 (42:20):
Listen. And I tell my mentees, because I do a
lot of mentorship, I tell them, I'm like, you don't
have to lose your femininity to do this job. You
can't print surround like a princess, but you don't have
to try to assimilate to this hardened masculine you know,
persona if that's not who you are. But because I
come hair done, nails done, everything, did people think I

(42:43):
don't have hands? And I'm like, I'm like, don't let
the smooth taste fool you. I'm like, my model is like,
I ain't a killer, but don't push me right, I'm
going to start anything. But if you try to put
your hands on me and hurt me, You're gonna have
a problem.

Speaker 2 (42:59):
Yeah. Yeah. Have you ever been in a situation where
you had to arrest someone but you saw yourself in them?

Speaker 3 (43:09):
That's a good question. Not necessarily saw myself in them?

Speaker 2 (43:15):
In like, now do you want to give them a
second chance or help them out?

Speaker 3 (43:20):
That happens all the time. So not necessarily see myself
in them, but I see their story. Yeah, the type
of person where I recognize that everyone has a story, absolutely,
and everyone's story is what led them to this exact
moment that we're in and what caused them to do

(43:42):
whatever it is that they did. And I recognized the
trauma that people have been experienced that lead them to
do certain things. And there are times where I do
feel like people do deserve a second chance. But I
also recognize that sometimes in someone being arrested, it is
for they're good, because that's that moment in their life
where they pivot.

Speaker 2 (44:03):
Yeah, doing and being what they were to being the.

Speaker 3 (44:08):
Best version of themselves. This is where they get the
help or that maybe it's a slack on the wrist
that they get, but now they're in a program that
helps them to be better, you know what I mean,
And they're able to go back and speak to other
people who are troubled, who were going down the wrong path,
and they're able to help them. Like, I definitely recognize
that I've had people run up to me. I had

(44:29):
a girl she ran up to me back back in
the day when I shopped at Walmart, because I definitely
don't anymore. I stop shopping at Walmart way before the nonsense,
but I definitely help now. But she ran up to me,
calling my name, and I looked because I'm like, I
don't know if she's friend or fall. Yeah, because even
though I'm not an asshole cop, that doesn't mean that
people don't like me just because I'm a cop.

Speaker 2 (44:51):
Yeah, that's a fact.

Speaker 3 (44:53):
She's running up on me and I'm looking at her
and I'm like, yeah, how can I help you? And
she's like, no, no, no, it's nothing bad. But you
arrested me three years ago.

Speaker 2 (45:04):
Garriad Walmart, I don't want to her this shit.

Speaker 3 (45:06):
But no, but I appreciate it. Arrested me three years ago,
and you remember I was pregnant and you took me
to the hospital and you talked to me, and girl,
she found out she was having twins. That oh, listen,
it's a whole story. But I remember looking at the thing.
I was like, oh, that looked like two heartbeats, but
I didn't say anything, and come to find out it

(45:27):
was twins. But I had arrested her. She was going
to jail for quite some time, and she was pregnant
and she had our babies in jail. But she's talking
to me now about getting out and getting custody of
her kids back, and she's working and she's clean and
she's like to do And she was like, I just

(45:47):
want to thank you for being kind to me, for
treating me like a person. You weren't mean everyone's mean
to me.

Speaker 2 (45:53):
You weren't like that because you imagined she would have
came across the wrong cop.

Speaker 3 (45:57):
Yeah, yeah, and that's why I'm like, I again, I'm
committed to making sure this job is done the right
way on my watch. You don't have to be an
asshole to do this job. Yeah, we really don't. Now
do I have moments where I have to pull the
asshole out every now and then. Yes, for the joker
who is fighting me, yes, yeah, Yoko who are trying

(46:19):
to hurt me, Yes, But day to day, interaction to interaction,
you don't have to be an asshole like. I enjoy
when someone has an interaction with me and I have
them leave me thinking a little bit more highly of cops. Yeah,
like they see you know what, maybe not all of

(46:40):
them are the same. And on the opposite end with
my colleague, I operate in this space where I'm like,
I want to make sure that the people who look
like me recognize that everyone who wears a badge like
me isn't the same. And then I also operate from
I want to make sure that everyone who wears a
badge like me understands that everyone who looks like me
it's not the same.

Speaker 2 (47:02):
Folk chow No.

Speaker 3 (47:04):
But I sit at this intersection of being black and blue,
as I call it. Yeah, So I have the opportunity
to have a positive influence on both sides of the point.
So I want to make sure that I do that
as much as I can. Have you ever been physically
hurt on the job, Like, not really bad, but yeah,

(47:24):
I remember trying to arrest someone and him throwing me
into a brick wall. And brick walls are not sheet rocked.
They do not give at all. Oh my god, I
was hurt that. I was sore for about a week
after that one. Now, thankfully I didn't have any permanent damage,

(47:45):
like I didn't break anything or pulling. God, but that
brick wall that hurt. Oh wow, that hurts. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (47:55):
Okay, So what are some of the biggest misconceptions that
people have about police officers? Because I think that in
situations like this, I think that a lot of times
the bad out weigh the good you do.

Speaker 3 (48:06):
So I would say a big misconception that people have
about police officers is that the good cops don't tell
them the bad cops. That's I hear there are no
good cops because the good cops don't tell them. That's
a good one. And that's not true, right, It's not true.
And it's also I also take it a step further

(48:27):
to say that there are a lot of good cops
who do speak out when someone is doing something that
they're not supposed to do. My all to action to
the community to those who say there aren't any good
cops because they don't tell them the bad cops is
when those good cops do tell them, the back cops

(48:48):
show up for them, and we are targeted by our
departments for telling on the bad cops, are suspended, and
we lose our jobs, and we can't pay our bills,
and we're depressed, and we're going through divorces, et cetera,
et cetera. The same people who scream from the mountaintops

(49:08):
that there are no good cops because they don't tell
on the bad cops, when the good cops show up
and do what we're supposed to do and we're targeting,
the same people aren't there to support us. There aren't
any gofundmeans, there aren't any protests for all, and so
now we've done what we're supposed to do, and we
did it because we're supposed to do it, But now
we're left on an island by ourselves and everyone else

(49:30):
who screamed for us to do our job the way
we're supposed to bring go on about their lives right now,
we're here trying to figure it out. So to me,
like there's this misconception that there aren't any good cops.
There are a lot of us out here who are
really really doing this job the right way. My call

(49:50):
to action to the community is to identify those of
us who are and show up for us.

Speaker 2 (49:56):
So do you think it's a slap in the face
when the community be like, we need police reform or
let's defund the police.

Speaker 3 (50:02):
Like, No, I don't think it's a slap in the face.
Do I like the term defund the police? No, because
that I think it's too broad. If we're going to
talk about doing an audit to see where all the
funds that are going in a police budget and making
sure that they're being allocated appropriately, that that I'm one
thousand percent cool with, right, but defund the police. The

(50:26):
community can't ask for more training for police and simultaneously
say defund the police. Right, training costs money. Right, community
can't say that, you know, we need crime taking care
of and simultaneously say defund the police, because then there
are less officers on the street to take care of

(50:47):
that crime. Like, I think that it's too far opposite
end of the spectrum. I think there's more of a
it's a more nuanced conversation, lad. But I don't have
any problem with police reform. I am an advocate for
police reform. There are a lot of things that are

(51:07):
done that could be done differently, could stand to be
done differently. I recognize that, and I'm here for it, right.
But I do think that it's important for those who
are advocating for police reform to talk to us officers
who actually understand and want to better our communities and

(51:29):
the profession, so that they can have an understanding of
what police reform could look like realistically in a way
that it's going to work for everyone. And I say
that because sometimes I hear policies that are so far
right that I'm like, nah, because you're marginalizing my community
and I'm not here for that, right, right. I hear

(51:49):
policies that are so far less I'm like, Okay, now
you're trying to get me killed and while I'm doing
my job, because you're not allowing me to actually do
my job, right, So there has to be more nuanced
conversation and there can be. But you know, there's a
lot of reform that needs to be done. There's overhaul
that needs to be done. You know, I'm one of

(52:09):
the people who believe that this system. I don't think
it's broken. I think it's working exactly how it was
intended to work, y right. It wasn't intended to have
our best interest at the part the fact. But I
also don't agree with people who don't believe that there
should be any police at all, because, like there are

(52:30):
people who are upset with any of us being in
the system, Like people who think I'm a bad guy.
It doesn't matter how good hearted I am. You're a
part of the system, so you're bad. And I look
at it like this, Why do you not want someone
in this system who has.

Speaker 2 (52:44):
Your best elites about to say that we need more
people like you in the system to advocate for people
like me.

Speaker 3 (52:50):
I would not want to make sure that the job
is done the right way, because there are a lot
of doctors who don't do what they're supposed to do,
but you still want black doctors. Or there are a
lot of teachers who don't do what they're supposed to do,
but you still want.

Speaker 2 (53:03):
Teacher representation matters.

Speaker 3 (53:06):
It matters, and we need it all throughout the criminal
justice system. We needed role, we need an approbation. We
needed in officers. We need it in prosecutors. We need
it in public defenders, we need it in judges. We
need it everywhere and every system.

Speaker 2 (53:21):
Entry level, all the way up to top rank.

Speaker 3 (53:24):
Education system, health system, criminal justice system. We need advocates
and ollies within every system. So you know, they single
out policing and say that those of us who are
doing the job right are still bad because we're a
part of the system. I'm just like, it doesn't make
sense to me because my presence de escalates the situation.

(53:48):
My presence is going to ensure that you don't get
your behind kicked unjustly.

Speaker 2 (54:02):
So do you think that trust between police and the
black community can ever be fully restored?

Speaker 3 (54:09):
I don't know, Yeah, don't I think that. I think
that the needle has been moved some, but there's still
a long way to go.

Speaker 2 (54:21):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (54:22):
I think that. Unfortunately, the times that we're in right now,
we're going to see a lot more of a regression.
And I think that that's because people are really becoming
emboldened right now during these current times, in this current
federal administration, and I don't know what that is going

(54:43):
to look like for policing in the event that, Like so,
there's a conversation about officers potentially having full immunity, right that,
to me, that would be problematic and I'm scary as
an officer, I don't I don't think that officers should
have full immunity. There are laws and guidelines that we

(55:04):
should have to abide by as well.

Speaker 2 (55:06):
Absolutely nobody is above the law.

Speaker 3 (55:09):
Nobody is above it, and no one should be above it.

Speaker 2 (55:11):
Absolutely from me, I don't think, not even the president.

Speaker 3 (55:19):
No, I don't think that we should have full community
and not for nothing. For someone who does this job
and is doing it the right way, what do you
need full immunity for? Yeah, because if you have to,
unfortunately discharge your firearm for some reason, if you're doing
it because you had no choice, if it was the

(55:40):
last resort, if someone was shooting at you or shooting
at someone else, or whatever it might be. If you
did your job the way that you're supposed to do it,
that's the issue will clear you. So what do you
need full immunity for? Yeah, because you did your job
the way it was supposed to be done. You didn't
step outside of the bounds. Why do you need full immunity?

Speaker 2 (56:01):
You know, as an officer, when you see videos of
police brutality and they go viral, what's your first reaction?

Speaker 3 (56:08):
Here we go again, Here we go again. And I
have gotten to the point where, for the most part,
I can't watch the videos anymore.

Speaker 2 (56:18):
Oh, I can't watch the videos.

Speaker 3 (56:20):
I used to watch the videos and people would send
the videos to me, and I would kind of dissect
them from an officer perspective, people like, you know, what
do you think about this? And I would look at it,
and you know, from an officer perspective, with all of
the facts that I actually did would have at that time.
I would say, based on what I see here and

(56:40):
what I know, yes this was justified or not this
wasn't okay right. And sometimes what I say the person
agrees with, and sometimes what I say they don't like.
If I say it's justified, and how could you say that?
And then I walked them through the incident and what happened,

(57:01):
and I'm like, I would have done the same thing,
And I'm like, you're looking at it from a broad perspective,
and I understand from your position as a layperson why
it's problematic for you, and I get it. Anyone losing
their life or being shot any at.

Speaker 2 (57:18):
All is not good, right.

Speaker 3 (57:21):
I'm like, but from the eyes of an officer, I
want to go home at the end of the night.
In every inn's life, you do, right, you do. And
I'm like, I need you to humanize this officer. Right,
You're upset because you see a white boy who did this,
and I'm telling you, as this black woman officer, I

(57:43):
would have done the exact same thing and this is why.
And I break it down. And once I break it down,
they're like, oh, I didn't think of it like that.
And I'm like, I get it, and I don't expect
you to because you don't do this job right. Right,
But there are certain things that happened, so like if
I'm looking for someone, like there have been situations where

(58:03):
officers might have gone into a house looking for someone
and there's a child in the house, an eight year old.
Officers guns are drawn while they're looking for this person.
The community might be upset with the fact that officers
have guns drawn and there's an eight year old there, right,

(58:24):
and I get that as a community member. But on
the law enforcement side, this person that we're looking for
is one if a homicide is known to have weapons,
has stated that they don't want to go back to
jail and will likely do anything that they can to
not go back to jail. So while I am looking.

Speaker 2 (58:41):
Clearly putting an eight year old child in danger.

Speaker 1 (58:43):
Thank you?

Speaker 2 (58:44):
Yeah?

Speaker 3 (58:44):
Right, So while I'm looking for them, yes, my gun
is going to be drawn. Isn't going to be drawn
at that eight year old? Absolutely not. It's the house
going to be cleared to make sure that that child
is out of harm's way, Absolutely right. But can I
prevent that child being triedmatized from the initial interaction from
US arriving, I can't prevent that. But I encounter with

(59:07):
that community member, I'm like, but you're the one harboring
a fugitive and you had this eight year old in
the house, So did I put that child in danger?
Or did you put that child in danger? And so
but then I take it a step further and I'm like, well,
because I'm here, I'm going to do everything in my
power to mitigate the trauma that comes to that child,

(59:28):
everything in my power to kind of like get them
out and talk to them after the fact and help
them to make them feel better because I'll go above
and beyond. But every cop is not going to do that.
But I'm like, don't be mad at me for doing
my job when you're harboring the fugitive. And so it's
just like moments like that where it's like I have
to have these hard conversations with members of the community,

(59:52):
But I have those hard conversations with my colleagues too,
Like there have been times where I've stepped in where
my colleague was about to do something that they weren't
supposed to do and step in and I shut it down.
That always been me. But you don't see those videos
happening all the time because it doesn't escalate because us
good cops jump in and intervene. It doesn't become a thing,

(01:00:13):
so people don't ever know about it. It's when something
goes bad and goes left and escalates that's where we
see those videos go viral. But when one of us
steps in, that's not salacious, right, that's not sexy, right,
that's not something that people want to go viral, or
it's not even captured because nothing happened, and.

Speaker 2 (01:00:34):
You know, people have a very unhealthy relationship with trauma.

Speaker 3 (01:00:37):
Porn absolutely dysfunction and trauma is like people just they
thrive off of it.

Speaker 1 (01:00:42):
They do.

Speaker 3 (01:00:45):
There's so many of us out here who are doing
good work, but we're not highlighted. And I guess, going
back to your question about the misconception, that that's the misconception.
There are so many of us out here who are really, really,
really doing the work to bridge the community. But you know,
bridge the gap between police and the black community and

(01:01:05):
other marginalized communities. There are a lot of us out
here doing this job the right way. And so to
your listeners, I urge them to identify those officers in
their communities and really show them some support because we
need it. It's hard. Yeah, we talk to two communities
where we were police officers and most of our colleagues
don't understand us and don't really want us there. And

(01:01:28):
then we belong to the black community, and there are
members of the black community who don't understand us.

Speaker 2 (01:01:32):
Don't you too black for blue and too blue for black?

Speaker 3 (01:01:34):
Really, And that's litterally what I say.

Speaker 2 (01:01:38):
Yeah, that's a real thing.

Speaker 3 (01:01:40):
I'm too black to be fully blue, and I'm too
blue to be fully black.

Speaker 2 (01:01:43):
SOA, I'm sorry.

Speaker 3 (01:01:45):
I was just gonna say, belonging to two worlds that
don't particularly care for one another all the time, and
all you want to do is make both of them better,
but you're not actually accepted fully in either of them.

Speaker 2 (01:01:58):
Yeah, you know, I can only imagine how difficult that
is for you to navigate between both worlds, because those
worlds have always yeah, that's a perfect word word. So
when you see these videos again go on viral as
a black woman, how does that hit differently?

Speaker 3 (01:02:17):
It there's a compounded layer of trauma that I experienced
watching those videos. So like when George Floyd was murdered,
only I watched the full video, but only watched it once.
Same I hyperventilated, snodding like bald and it was just,

(01:02:45):
it was so hurtful to me that one of my
colleagues could do that to another person, let alone someone
who looks like me. He could have been my brother,
he could have been my uncle, he could have been
my cousin. Yeh, daddy, And to see that, ye thus,

(01:03:07):
it hurt me so much. And it's like, oh, I
felt the same anger that the black community felt. And
then it was compounded by the fact that I do
this job right, and I actually felt a bit of
guilt even though I know that all but like I
said earlier, I have intervened so many times throughout my career.

(01:03:31):
All I kept thinking, like, if I was there, that
would not have happened. If I was there, that shit
would not have happened. If I was there, I can
say with one hundred percent certainty, George Flood would not
have died that day. I can say with one hundred
percent certainty, if I was there in New York, Eric
Garner would not have died that day, Like because I
stepped in. That's who I am, That's how I am,

(01:03:54):
And so it just it hit different. And then when
the protests came, it was challenging because now being a cop,
you know, I have to navigate these protests and the
community that I work so hard for within this profession
making sure that things are done the right way are

(01:04:14):
now attacking me and calling me everything but a child
of God because of what I and not taking into
consideration how I do it. Like Derek Chauvin, the guy
who killed George Flood, like I'm not him, but because

(01:04:35):
of him. I am being mistreated by people who I
work so hard for. So it was just it was.
It was a challenging time. It really, really really was.
And you know, I know everybody can't receive that. There
are some people who are like, well, yeah, you signed
up for that job and that it just is what
it is. And like, I hear you, But at your job,

(01:04:56):
when you're mistreated, do you think, oh, well, I signed
up for this job, so being is treated as cool. No, right, like,
especially when I am truly doing the work to make
sure it's done the right way. Oh my watch, Like
I can't. I can't say that enough. Not everybody in
this job shows up that way. Not everyone like us

(01:05:16):
in this job shows up this way. And I'm not
in any way, shape or form saying that I am
the end all be all. I am not perfect. I
make mistakes just like everybody else, right, but I truly
put my best foot forward as much as I can
to do this job the right way.

Speaker 2 (01:05:32):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:05:33):
Be mistreated by the profession and the colleagues who don't
want me there, right, mistreated by the community that I
work so hard for. It it's rough.

Speaker 2 (01:05:44):
Listen, I can feel your emotions because I can't even
imagine the weight of that type of guilt that you experience,
especially during those times of like high emotion, high tension,
and to a point where it makes you feel like
you got to pick between your career and your community.
Like that's that's a lot.

Speaker 3 (01:06:02):
Almost quit. Almost quit that that summer when George Club
was murdered twenty twenty, I almost quit. I was like,
why am I doing this right? Because one of the
things that always helped me driven was being able to
be one of those officers who could bridge that gap.
And I'm like, well, dag, if I'm getting it from

(01:06:25):
the profession and then I'm getting it from the community,
what am I here for?

Speaker 2 (01:06:28):
What's right?

Speaker 3 (01:06:29):
Like? Why am I stressing myself out? Why am I
putting my life in danger every day to go do
this job for people who hate me because I do
this job? Why joints? And so I did? I almost
quit it? Yeah, your girl was out of here?

Speaker 2 (01:06:47):
So what did you going?

Speaker 3 (01:06:49):
I got therapy?

Speaker 2 (01:06:50):
Wow, And and stay way into my next topic, like
how has this impacted to your mental health?

Speaker 3 (01:06:56):
In therapy, I had to m I had to talk
to somebody. It was a I mean because it was
the middle of COVID, so dealing with that and being
an officer during COVID that's trauma in and of itself.
And then George Floyd being murdered and dealing with that
on top of that, and then other personal things I
had going on in my life, like it. It was
heavy for me at that time, and I was like,

(01:07:18):
I need to talk to somebody, and so I got
into therapy and it was the best thing I ever
could have done for myself.

Speaker 2 (01:07:24):
Yeah, do you believe enough is being done to protect
the mental health of officers?

Speaker 3 (01:07:29):
No. I think that we're talking about it more now, absolutely,
and there are programs for that. But I do feel
like the programs are performative because at the end of
the day, when we really need support, I don't feel

(01:07:51):
like we always get it right as officers. And it's
to me, a mental health is really important, and it's
really important for officers to be okay, because when officers
are not okay, then they project whatever it is that
they're going through. Oh, absolutely serving right. So to me,
when you have more mentally healthy officers, you have less

(01:08:13):
negative interactions with the community. So whether the officer is white, black, blue, brown, purple,
that officer being healthy mentally is important to me. Yeah,
that officer, white, black, blue, brown, purple is still going
to interact with the community and they need to be okay,

(01:08:34):
because just like I said, everyone has a story, right,
So everyone in the community has a story, but every
officer has a story.

Speaker 2 (01:08:41):
Too, absolutely absolutely.

Speaker 3 (01:08:43):
And experiences that got them to where they are and
why they show up the way that they show up,
So them actually speaking to someone and working on whatever
their traumas are. Because I remember, as officers, we see
the worst of the worst, right, and that's something that
I think people forget. Like everybody else runs away from danger,
we run towards it. Yeah, we experience trauma way more

(01:09:08):
than the average person does, and so that really messes
with our minds. And we don't have the opportunity to
come down from that trauma because it literally takes time
for the brain to decompress situation. But we don't have
enough time to decompress because we're back in the next shift. Yeah,
experienced something else, and then are we decompressed a little bit,

(01:09:30):
But then we're back in the next shift, right, And
so we're not taking care of ourselves as officers. We
can't really take care of the community the way that
they need to be taken care of.

Speaker 2 (01:09:39):
And I can only imagine how desensitized you are to
a lot of things because it's always, probably like non
stop sometimes.

Speaker 3 (01:09:46):
So it's interesting because I am desensitized to a lot
of things. Like at one point, I was in special
Victims units, so I'm dealing with that.

Speaker 2 (01:09:55):
I not she was on line in order child Oli.

Speaker 3 (01:10:00):
I wanted to be Alivia Benson at one point in
my career, I was right, And so I'm dealing with
those types of crimes, and I had to desensitize myself
to a certain extent so that I'm not internalizing that stuff.
But I also and this is something that I would
tell my officers because at my department, when I first
went to policing, I did make ranks, so I was
a sergeant, and I would tell my officers, Yes, you

(01:10:23):
have to desensitize yourself to a certain extent so that
you don't internalize everything. But you also have to maintain
a certain level of empathy to remember that just because
this is your job and you deal with this stuff
every day, this is this person's life. This is the
worst day of their Life's the worst thing that they've
ever experienced. So you appos need to show up with
that in mind and not compound the trauma unnecessarily because

(01:10:47):
of how you show up. But even in my being
desensitized to a lot of things, I'm actually hyper sensitive
to a lot of things too, Like I don't watch
violent shows. I don't watch violent movies because my nervous
system it doesn't respond to it. Well. Like I'm already
in a profession that where I'm dealing with violence or

(01:11:07):
I'm seeing violence, or I'm investigating violence. I don't want
to see it in my off time.

Speaker 2 (01:11:12):
Yeah, damn, Like you gonna be watching Order and Organized Crime?

Speaker 3 (01:11:16):
Law and Order, isn't it? Like it's minimally violent because
that's my ship, that's view is my Like I do
love SV but like I used to watch Power, I
can't watch it anymore violent, right I used to like
movies and stuff, I can't watch it. So like Thrones,
people like you don't watch it, No, it's too violent
for me personally. I don't want to watch.

Speaker 2 (01:11:38):
It because because you experience it every day, I.

Speaker 3 (01:11:41):
Don't like the way it affects my nervous system. So
I'm like, no, I want It's like if somebody were
to say, like, what do you watch? I want the
feel good I want the wrong com I have a
good com like. I want something that's lighthearted, Like I
just started watching a Different World again because it's on
Netflix something like stuff like that. If it's not like that,

(01:12:04):
you can keep it. I don't even watch like Love
and Hip Hop basketball wise, Like, I don't watch any
of that anymore. It's so dysfunctional.

Speaker 4 (01:12:11):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:12:13):
Yeah, So do you think that officers should go through
regular mental health evaluations?

Speaker 3 (01:12:18):
Yes, you know, we get screened to get on the job,
But I do think that it's important for us to
make sure that we're taking care of our mental health
because when I first get on the job, I haven't
responded to like especially like someone like NYPD. Right when

(01:12:39):
that officer first gets on the job, that officer hasn't
experienced all the trauma that they're going to experience over
their career. Yeah, but five years in, when they responded
to fatal car accidents and baby deaths and been in
high speed chases themselves, and you know SVU and Arson, etcetera, etcetera, etcetera, etcetera, etcetera.

(01:13:00):
Right the way that their mental state was when they
started the job, is not with their mental later on, right,
And it's not at any fault of the officer, but
it's just it's just important to really put measures in
place to make sure that we as officers are okay, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:13:21):
We almost finished. But I remember when everything that was
going on with George Floyd and Sandra Bland and just
so many black people that was losing their hands to police.
And I remember going to the store one time and
I had to walk past this police officer. And I've
never been scared scared of police because I know so
many people growing up, especially in my family, who are
in law enforcement. So I never had that type of

(01:13:44):
relationship with police. But I felt nervous and scared, and
I remember I was almost having an anxiety attack when
I was walking past him, and I was I had
to get myself together, and I think one of the
black cops he saw me and he was like, you good,
and I'm like, yeah, I'm good, I'm good, and then
I came back to reality. So I say that to say,
you know, what would you say to a young black
boy or a girl who's afraid of the police but

(01:14:05):
they want to be a police officer one day or
work in law enforcement.

Speaker 3 (01:14:10):
Yeah, I would say, when you see a police officer,
say him, say hi, start the interaction. Right, A lot
of the community feels the same way that you felt
walking past those officers. Right. Shoot, when I'm pulled over,
my anxiety goes up, like right, let ask like how

(01:14:35):
you probably feel when you're pulled over and your heart
starts pitter pattern. Same thing happens to me. Right I'm
in my eighteenth pier. But the only way that we
are going to bridge the gap is to actually get
to know and understand each other better. Absolutely, So we

(01:14:56):
can't understand each other if we don't ever interact, if
we don't ever communicate. Yeah, I tell members of the community,
when you see an officer, say him, because that officer
feels the tension, just like you feel the tension, and
they may not want to say anything to you for
fear of you rejecting them or it being it turning

(01:15:20):
into a negative interaction when it didn't have to. So
if you open up the door to have a positive interaction,
they're going to be more receptive. And I say the
same thing on the opposite end, right to my colleagues,
I'm like, when you see people, just say hello, yeah, yeah,
just say hi. And I'm like, no, you're not always

(01:15:40):
going to get a positive response, but sometimes you will,
and you probably will get a positive response more times
than not. Say hi, right, And I try to do
that when I'm out because again, I don't look like
a cop. Right, So when I'm out, officers, how y'all doing?
Stay safe? Because if my interaction as a black woman

(01:16:01):
who they don't know as a cop can be positive
and I can put that little implant in their head, Okay,
this black woman is positive, then hopefully that can change
that one interaction can change it a little bit. Right.
That's all we can do is like plant the mustard seed. Right,
So we all have to do better. So I tell

(01:16:24):
I tell people, say hi, Start how's your day going?
Start a conversation, And I tell people get to know
the officers who police in their communities, and as a
kid who wants to be an officer, say hi and
ask them about being an officer. Tell them to an officer,
ask them about the job, ask them about the academy,

(01:16:47):
ask them things because you might get a mentor out
of it. Yeah, you know what I mean. So I say,
just I know that we're all walking on eggshells to
a certain extent when it comes to each other, each community.
But I just think if we just take a moment

(01:17:08):
to see each other as human, yeah, and have human interactions,
I think that will go a lot further.

Speaker 2 (01:17:18):
You know what, God bless you, sus, because I can
only imagine the amount of work you have to do
to keep your hearts off.

Speaker 3 (01:17:28):
It's rough, it is rough, but it's like I have moments.

Speaker 2 (01:17:31):
Where because even passion can harden you, sometimes.

Speaker 3 (01:17:35):
It can, it can, but I have those moments where
I have those human interactions and it reminds me why
I do this job. In the days where I'm tired
and I'm like, yo, I'm ready to retire, and really
good interaction, or I have a case where I'm able
to show up for someone and they feel seen, like

(01:17:55):
a victim who feels seen, heard, valued, or case where
it's a mistaken identity and I'm the person who figures
out that we got the wrong. Well not we, but
they right.

Speaker 2 (01:18:05):
Because I ain't taking it. I don't want no credit
for that.

Speaker 3 (01:18:08):
I'm not the one who charged and arrested them. To
be clear, I'm the one who's investigating after the fact
that my name on that part. There's no mistaken identities
on my watch. But I recognize that they arrested the
wrong person, and I'm able to articulate that and show
that and that person gets those charges dropped like stuff

(01:18:31):
like that. It's like, I literally look up and I'm like,
all right, God, you can remind me why I'm still here,
because you know, I needed that because I was ready
to be out.

Speaker 2 (01:18:40):
Yeah, how many more years?

Speaker 3 (01:18:41):
You got seven and a half countdown?

Speaker 2 (01:18:46):
It's gonna go by fast, I pray.

Speaker 3 (01:18:48):
So, I mean the first seventeen and a half have
gone by really fast.

Speaker 2 (01:18:53):
Yeah, and you still looking like you in your twenties child.

Speaker 3 (01:18:57):
This gray hair. You know, Like, why didn't say that?
Because I used to be the youngest person in the
room and now you know, I'm one of the veterans.
I wanted over it, and it's just it's wild to
me to that, you know. Yeah, but it is what
it is. But I'm thankful, I'm blessed, and you know,

(01:19:19):
I'm as challenging as it can be. I'm happy to
do this job.

Speaker 2 (01:19:23):
So when it's time to hang up the badge, how
do you want to be remembered.

Speaker 3 (01:19:28):
That's a great question.

Speaker 2 (01:19:29):
You know, I got to get my oprah on every
now and then.

Speaker 3 (01:19:33):
I want to be remembered as the person who was
again very passionate about making sure that this job was
done the right way on my watch. I want to
be known as the person who led with empathy and compassion,
person who is remembered as someone who invested in the

(01:19:55):
next generation of law enforcement, making sure that they're being
taught and trained the right way and how to treat people.
I want to be remembered as someone who practice what I.

Speaker 2 (01:20:08):
Preached, absolutely absolutely.

Speaker 3 (01:20:11):
Operated in the way that I am speaking right now.
I want to be the person who is remembered as
someone didn't only talk that talk, but walked it as well.

Speaker 2 (01:20:22):
M And last, but not least, one more question, what's
your advice for people to stay safe and calm during
police interactions?

Speaker 3 (01:20:31):
People are not gonna like this. H do what you're
told to do in that moment. Your job in that
moment is not to litigate whether you're right or wrong.
Your job is not to convince the officer that you

(01:20:52):
are whatever. Your job is to get through the interaction
safely right. So if they tell you to do something.
Do it. If you feel like they are not treating
you properly or you did not do what they're accusing
you of doing, take certain mental notes. Take note of

(01:21:16):
what department it is. Take note of the name of
the officer. Take note of the badge number. Where let's
say it's the traffic stop. Remember where you were stopped,
you were around, what day it was, what time of
day it was, what the officer said to you, what
the interaction was, So that if you feel like you
do need to make a report, you have all of

(01:21:39):
the information that someone would need to investigate. But at
that moment, in the middle of it, it's not the
time to bark up or get based like. It's not
the time because at the end of the day, that
officer has way more authority than you. Yeah, and that
officer as the power to take your freedom and or life. Yeah,

(01:22:10):
it's important that you remember that and not escalate a
situation unnecessarily. And so I and you know a lot
of people don't want to hear when someone says, well,
you should have done what you were told to do.
I get it, trust me, trust me, I get it.

(01:22:31):
But I need you to get through the interaction safely,
and so in order to do that, I need you
to do what you were told to do and we
will figure the rest out later. Right, you're not here
or if you're hurt, that's not helping you. Yeah, right,
So get through it safely and then we could talk

(01:22:55):
about the rest later and navigate whatever it is that
you need to do later. Yeah, get through it safely.

Speaker 2 (01:23:03):
You know what, sus. I know you've probably heard this
a thousand times, but I really do appreciate what you
do for our community. So thank you, thank you, thank you.
Your years are definitely not in vain, so I appreciate you.
I think that we need more people like you, especially
in your field, to be more vocal and you know,
to help foster this relationship or repair this relationship so
we can have more conversations like this so we all

(01:23:24):
can go home safely. So I appreciate you, sus I
really do. This was an excellent conversation.

Speaker 3 (01:23:29):
That's so good. I needed this, And this is one
of those moments where I'm talking, I'm actually talking about
it out loud, and it's one of those moments like, sorry,
thank you guys for reminding me why I do this job. Yeah,
I appreciate you having me on. I appreciate you listening
to my story, you caring about my story. You know,
it makes it a little bit easier to do this job.

Speaker 2 (01:23:50):
So thank you of course, of course, and to the listeners,
if you have any questions, comments and concerns, please make
sure to email me a hello at the psgpodcast dot com.
Like I always say, please share your stories because you
never know how your storyline could be somebody else's lifeline.
So to my guests, thank you so much and until
next time, everyone later ye. The Professional Homegirl Podcast is

(01:24:18):
a production of the Black Effect Podcast Network. For more
podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, app a podcasts,
or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. Don't forget
to subscribe and rate the show, and you can connect
with me on social media at the PHG podcast

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Host

Eboné Almon

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