MEN SERIES: My Journey With Cross Dressing

In this deeply personal episode of The Professional Homegirl Podcast, Eboné's guest bravely opens up about their journey with cross-dressing and its impact on their life. From their college days with a girlfriend to embracing their true self, they share the challenges and triumphs of navigating societal norms and expectations.

Eboné's guest delves into the emotional and psychological aspects of cross-dressing, discussing how it has helped them understand and express their identity more fully. They candidly talk about their early desire to be pretty, the reactions of family and friends, societal pressures to conform, and the moments of self-doubt and self-acceptance that have shaped their path.

They also share insightful thoughts on the experiences of Black cross-dressers, media depictions of men in dresses, and much more, highlighting the importance of representation and the need for broader acceptance and understanding in society.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome one and all to the Professional Homegirl Podcast. Before
we begin today's episode, we want to remind you that
the views and opinions expressed on this podcast are those
of the hosts and guests and are intended for educational
and entertaining purposes. In this safe space, no question is
off limits because you never know how someone's storyline can
be your lifeline. The Professional Homegirl Podcast is here to

(00:22):
celebrate the diverse voices, stories and experiences of women of color,
providing a platform for authentic and empowering conversations. There will
be some key king, some tears, but most importantly a
reminder that tough times don't last, but professional homegirls do
enjoy the show.

Speaker 2 (00:48):
Hey, Professional Homegirls, welcome to another episode of the Professional
Homegirl Podcast. I am your host, Ebeney, and I hope
all is cute with you now you can't tell about
my voice. I am super excited for you all to
hear this week's conversation from our men series. But before
we dive in, let's check out some phg mail from

(01:11):
one of our Chicago Professional Homegirls. This PHG wrote, I
want to start by saying how much I love and
appreciate your podcast. Your podcast is truly inspiring. I learned
so much. Listen. If it's one thing we gonna do
over here, we're gonna teach you all something. Okay. It
is amazing to hear from so many brave women who

(01:31):
have been through so damn much in this world and
have been silenced by Shane. Thank you for creating a
safe space for us all to share our experience about
so many different subjects. Our struggles and challenges are real too.
In a world where we are told to be quiet,
you allow us to speak freely and be heard. I

(01:52):
truly appreciate you and your creativity. Oh, thank you so
much to this Chicago professional homegirl for sitting this email.
And if you want to ask me questions or if
you want to connect with me or even get some
advice from our listeners, please make sure to email me
at hello at thephgpodcast dot com. And also if you
want to connect with any of the guests, please make

(02:13):
sure to reach out. Hold me down, don't hold me
up Now, today's guests would share their inspiring journey of
self discovery through cross dressing. They're diving to what sparked
their path, the obstacles they encounter and the lack of
representation for black cross dressers that they notice along the way.
They are also recount how their passion for feeling pretty

(02:35):
began at such a young age, how they can seal
their desire to wear dresses during college, and the reasons
behind ending their engagement, and so much more. Their story
is about embracing their true self and challenging societiesal norms.
So get ready professional homegirls, because my journey with cross
dressing starts now. All right, to my guests, thank you

(02:59):
so much for being on a sho show. How you doing,
how you feeling.

Speaker 3 (03:03):
I'm doing good? Thank you for reaching out and having me.
I'm you know, I always love a good podcast conversation situation.

Speaker 2 (03:10):
So yes, I'm so excited to finally have to have
you on the show, like I told you earlier off
the air, because I've been like on his ass, y'all,
I've been like emailing him, following up with him. I'm like,
please please please come on the show because I feel
like you do such a great job with sharing your
story and just being as detail as possible when it
comes across dressing. So thank you so much.

Speaker 3 (03:31):
Yeah, thank you. So I should tell you because We
didn't discuss this over email, but I do use dyven pronouns.

Speaker 2 (03:38):
Oh, thank you for letting me know.

Speaker 3 (03:40):
Yeah, yeah, that's my reference, you know, depending on what
kind of how I'm presenting online and everything, like you know,
with like you know that that whole to whatever extent,
it's a character like when I'm acting, and yeah, she
heard everything, but like they them is how my friends
and family addressed me and everything.

Speaker 2 (04:00):
So thank you.

Speaker 1 (04:03):
Now.

Speaker 2 (04:03):
Can you sure been about your journey and what led
you to start cross dressing?

Speaker 3 (04:07):
Yeah, you know, it's I just always I just always
wanted to be pretty. It's kind of like the simple
way to put it, you know what I'm saying. I
identify as non binary, which looks a lot of different
ways for a lot of different people. But you know,
my everyday life, that's kind of where I am now.

(04:29):
But cross dressing kind of as like a label and
as like a just like as a thing. You know.
It's like all these different words have so many different
like depending on who's using the language, like yeah, different
meanings and stuff. But but I embraced them all. But
I just say that to say, like, you know, my
the way my fluidity works, it's like I go in

(04:52):
and out of these different context and sometimes it's like
with what I'm putting out online, whether it's YouTube, Instagram
or or like my only fans or whatever, I think
that you know, depending on who's looking at it, they
might be receiving it or interpreting it as a different way.
But you know, but for me personally, like you know,

(05:12):
I identify it's not binary genef SUAD. But ever since
I was a child, as long as I can remember,
like you know, I just always had an affinity for
you know, pretty aesthetics, and I I have always been
non conforming at heart, you know, you know, had gotten

(05:32):
caught like trying on some of my sister's clothes that
were like hanging up to dry one day when I
was like eight years old and stuff. And I kind
of like I've told that story it in like one
of my YouTube videos and stuff, and that's kind of
like my like og, Like we all anyone who has
ever who still does identify as a cross jester or

(05:54):
who has ever maybe they are now like you know,
maybe the identify as a trans woman now or they've
kind of their journey is spread out. We all kind
of have similar if you were born in the male's
body and you you know, be putting on dresses. We
all kind of have similar stories, you know what I'm saying,
And was like, you know, I got caught. I locked
myself in the bathroom because I saw a stolen opportunity

(06:15):
to you know, look at myself in the mirror and
like feel pretty like that's always been very very gratified
fine to me. I yeah, I guess that's kind of
like the short and so I won't like get too
much in the weeds there, but yeah, how I started
kind of like in my how I started like kind
of where I am now, like you know.

Speaker 2 (06:36):
Well, wait before you continue, where did that Where did
that desire of feeling pretty comformed? I did it come
from your sister or your mom?

Speaker 3 (06:45):
I don't know. You know, I grew up in a
pretty like religious household. Both my parents are like, you know, ministers,
and you know, they were like really kind of like
I didn't grow like I grew up in kind of
like you know, Baptists a lot or what do you
call it, no denominational churches a lot. However, like a

(07:08):
lot of those churches definitely had like strong like uh,
let's just say like Pentecostal influences things that I you
know today might consider a bit extreme or or people
might say in the extreme in the spectrum like you
know this, the speaking in tongues, the spiritual wolf, like
a lot of those like real like intense like Christian religious.

(07:33):
That's that's why I grew up in So there definitely
wasn't really no room for like, you know, uh, exploring
on sexuality. Uh, you know, franstance or whatever. That wasn't
you know. So I knew, like inherently, I don't remember,
but I just knew. I just knew that it was
something I wasn't supposed to be doing. Like I knew

(07:54):
it was taboo, if you will. I knew it was
something I couldn't really be open about, you.

Speaker 2 (08:00):
Know, from especially being.

Speaker 3 (08:03):
Yeah, and you know, I grew up in southern Illinois too.
I was born in DC, but moved around, Like I
grew up in southern Illinois inside of Saint Louis, but
you know, southern roots all that stuff. So yeah, where
did I get it from? I don't know. You know,
you you you ask, you ask some people and they

(08:23):
have their opinions. You know, my mom feels like I
was exposed to shit. I wasn't supposed to be exposed, right,
you know, stuff like that. And you know that that
wasn't that wasn't my story personally necessarily, like you know,
I wasn't abused in any way like that or nothing.

Speaker 2 (08:40):
This is just who you are, right.

Speaker 3 (08:42):
It's just it's just who I am. You know. It's
just like I see see something and be like, oh
I like it. I think. You know, I do have
a sister. I was the youngest of four. I do
have a sister who is yeah, and so I was
always closer close with her, you know, because you know,

(09:03):
she was nicer to me than my older brothers were.
I guess.

Speaker 2 (09:08):
And wait, so you have two older brothers and one sister, okaya.

Speaker 3 (09:12):
Mm hm. So where it came from? I don't know, maybe,
but that's not how my memory kind of like remembers it.
You know. Maybe it was like more on a subconscious level.
But she was never like, oh, hey, like let's try
on clothes together. Like she she also like everyone in
my family, my siblings, my mom, my dad, even though

(09:35):
my parents were divorced when I was pretty young, we
we everyone kind of like fell in line and like
acted out like you know, the gender norms that they
were supposed to do. And sometimes like my sister would
kind of be like a miniature mom my mother and
kind of like you know, police certain things. And because
like there was one time where some neighborhood girls like

(09:56):
had you know, I'm like seven years old or maybe
nine or something, and you know, I was friends with
a couple of other girls who were my age. One
time they had like you know, stow me away. They're like, oh,
it would be funny to dress her she up in
some you know, girl clothes and everything, and like in
my mind, I'm like, oh, this is amazing. This is
the best thing life. Like this is this is what
I've always wanted, Like you know, I feel seeing everything.

(10:18):
But then it was like also a situation where like
my sister, like you know, the next day it was like, hey,
like just so did I hear that song? So like
you know, just dressed you up like a girl whatever,
And like she was very much like, you know, we
don't do that.

Speaker 2 (10:31):
That's messed up, like blah blah blah.

Speaker 3 (10:35):
Maybe, but I think like she was friends with these
people too, but it was just like you know, she
was reminding me like you know, we won't be doing
that gay shit or whatever. So it was it was
a very like internal thing. Plus me being the youngest,
so I've always so like I've just always been like
very gentle very, like cautious, timid, like you know, kind

(10:57):
of around like maybe my family and stuff and so
like I'll keep things in and it will be a
little too shy. I think I envy these kids these
days who like have.

Speaker 2 (11:10):
Oh please, those are too so much stuff.

Speaker 3 (11:12):
They they kind of know at least where to start.

Speaker 2 (11:16):
Kids are so different than how we were raised. They
are so bold, they have so many, so much more
resources than we have, Like it is insane. Like my niece,
she's seven years old, and she's teaching me how to
do certain things on the phone, and I'm like, how
do you know this?

Speaker 3 (11:32):
Yeah exactly, And I'm like I'm just not that you
know what I'm saying. I feel like I'm like the
last of Like I feel so old sometimes because you know,
it wasn't that long ago that I was in high school,
but a lot has changed since then, like even in
those fifteen years so.

Speaker 2 (11:53):
And time is just so fast.

Speaker 3 (11:55):
Yeah, yeah, I just didn't know what anything meant. Or
anything was. And you know, I caught me that day.
She gave me the whole lecture like, hey, like, you know, boy,
you wear these clothes. She kind of was trying to
figure out why I wanted to do it, And you know,
I told her essentially what I told you. I was like,
you know, I want to I want to wear this shit.
I want to like this, is I feel good looking
like this? Like I want to see myself like you know,

(12:18):
reflected in the way. And and I didn't hate, you know,
I didn't hate being a boy. You know, as a kid,
I liked, I liked doing quote unquote boy things, but
I also like doing shit that you know, I was
very sensitive. You know. I was also very like, you know,
want to talk about feelings and shit sometimes, or you know,

(12:40):
liked quote unquote girly things. But I also you know,
it was very athletic, like to play outside a lot
like to so, and I you know, I thought girls
are very interesting to me too, you know, but I
didn't again, like I didn't understand that like sexuality and
gender orientation or like kind of two different things like
these are things now. But so I just kind of

(13:02):
like tried shoving it away for pretty much forever until
like my my college years.

Speaker 2 (13:09):
That's my next question, because that's when you started to
come out more and be more expressive with it.

Speaker 3 (13:17):
Yeah, that's that's when I was like a senior in college.
I was no, No, I went to VCU. It's it's
a predominantly white institution.

Speaker 2 (13:30):
But I'm surprised why you didn't want to go to
HBCU or you want to stay close to home, you.

Speaker 3 (13:38):
Know it kind of just I didn't like not want
to go to HBCU. It had came down to Howard
and VCU were like my last two. I ultimately chose
VC because, like music was my discipline, and the the
audition process at VCU and kind of what I saw

(14:00):
just seemed a little bit more rigorous than what it
would have done, what it looked like it was about
to look like for me at Howard, Like the I'm
a percussionist at that so, like I went in audition
at Howard. You know, they were really impressed everything, but
the program was a lot smaller. Yeah, I just kind
of felt like maybe I would have more of an
opportunity to grow specifically at music at VCU, but I

(14:23):
wanted to go to. You know, I have a long
family legacy at Florida, and m I did want to
go there. I was really like, it had been a
dream of mine to be in an HBCU marching band
since I was and I did marching band in high school.
But it wasn't like you know, the black nigga shit.
It was like the roll step and all that stuff.

(14:43):
I thought it would be really cool. It would be like,
you know, a legacy thing all my family, you know,
from Florida. They went through there, but their band was
suspended that year that I would have been a freshman.
There was an incident where drum major was hazed and killed,
so they were kind of going through a rebuilding situation.

(15:03):
So that wasn't an option for me anyway.

Speaker 2 (15:06):
Yeah, I went to Tennessee State University.

Speaker 3 (15:09):
Okay, Yeah, I had a friend go through there. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (15:10):
Yeah. So when you how did you prepare yourself mentally
and emotionally in college?

Speaker 3 (15:17):
Mm hmmm mmm. I MNA need you to rephrase that
a little more specifically, because this is deep.

Speaker 2 (15:25):
Yes, because the reason why I asked, because you know,
I can only imagine the amount of feelings that you
was experiencing during that time. And then also just being
in college and then you also like learning more about yourself,
so like what motivated you to like want to share
your story with your peers. And then eventually you also
have I saw that you had a girlfriend as well.

Speaker 3 (15:47):
Mm hmm, Yeah, I have a girlfriend. Now. She's amazing.
She's you know, so supportive and everything, and you know,
I learned a lot from her every day, but she's
in the It was just kind of like weird, Like,
you know, I lived in fear, like, you know, like

(16:10):
all the time, even throughout high school, you know. But
to answer your question, like going into college and everything,
I just you know, was like I'm gonna just try
my best to keep shit at bay. Like I understood
things about myself in terms of like my desires and

(16:30):
my behaviors that I would do like one hundred percent
behind closed doors. But I didn't have any like good
contextual understanding of like how I could really be myself
like in the world that I was living, Like it
never occurred to me. I was I was years years

(16:52):
out from really like accepting you know, who I am
through the lens of like a queer identity. Yeah, and everything.
I was so committed to you know again like all
these different pressures, like you know, I'm black, you know
I was, I was this black male. You know, I
wanted to be cool, you know what I'm saying. I

(17:14):
wanted to date girls just like any other you know,
straight you know, dude would have won it. But like
that was all like this this whole thing hanging like man,
like I have this big secret that I can't tell
nobody because they're going to sew me. Like I didn't
know how to reconcile the two, so.

Speaker 2 (17:31):
It had to be very difficult.

Speaker 3 (17:34):
Yeah, I just not to think about it. It's just
sort like you know, if I was you know, if
I was like into somebody, I used to put all
my ship into that relationship and just become obsessed because
it would occupy my mind. And usually how the pattern

(17:54):
would be is like if I was in a relationship,
then I would kind of like just be so invested
in that that the the quote unquote urges to put
on a dress like would be.

Speaker 2 (18:08):
Held at bad Where would you wear the dresses that? Like,
would you wear it on like in your dorm room
or like would you go out at night?

Speaker 3 (18:18):
Well, my first year, like in the dorm room I
ain't have ship, you know, there just was nowhere to
hide anything. I had shared a room, so I just
that year, right just you know, didn't do anything. I
was also like involved in campus ministries and stuff and
like how these here, like you know the politics of
that and everything. So it I would if I did

(18:41):
do it, like when I got some stuff, like when
I you know, got a job and when I finally
got a car, like I would just hide it under
my bed, you know. When I lived like you know,
little townhouses with roommates or you know, apartments or what
have you. Every now and then I might find a
moment to sneak out to go to this game bar
downtown and like go to a drag show and stuff,

(19:03):
but it would be like so so like covert. A
lot of times I would go like presenting as like
a male and we'll just kind of like hang around
and like, you know, just see what what happened in
a place like that. But yeah, for for years, those
times are very few and far between. But you know,

(19:25):
I just kept masking and just kept you know, pretending.

Speaker 2 (19:30):
Sometimes can feel like another job, man, I know that feeling.

Speaker 3 (19:34):
It can be. It was really, it was really tough
because like I had relationships with like pastors and stuff
who like my freshman year of college, for example, this
pastor who was like the campus lead of this ministry
thing that I was a part of, Like I told him,
you know, because I always assumed that, you know, this
was a sin, and I was always like throughout middle school,

(19:58):
high school, and most of college, was trying to like
fix it. You know what I'm saying. I was trying
to like, you know you didn't right, Yeah, I'll tell
you now straight up. That's not something that I'm looking for,
Like there's nothing wrong with me. I love, but it
was just so like there was no in between. So

(20:21):
I would meet with him and we would like you know, talk,
you know, one on one, we go through certain books
and everything.

Speaker 2 (20:27):
That It's good that he was open though, Like he
was there for you, because I think that's important to
have community.

Speaker 3 (20:32):
Absolutely, like you know, anyone who had ever opened up
about it, they were there for me, but only because
it was kind of like under the understanding like yeah,
like we're all broken people, God still loves us or whatever.
Like they were never supportive for me doing that. Nobody
was ever like, oh, like it's okay that you know,

(20:53):
you feel this way. It's okay that you want to
you know, be pretty ward dresses, or it's okay if
you're fluid, it's okay if you're That wasn't the conversation,
but it was like, oh, you're you're okay as a person.
We're going to figure this out and everything. We're going
to read some Bible verses and everything and that, you know,
for where I was in that time and place, like
that's what I felt like my spirit needed. And there

(21:16):
were some good things that came out of there, but
ultimately I kind of reject that whole That's just not
not for me, you know. So so, yeah, it was,
it was. It was tough, you know, I there, I
never I'm a top of person, like you know, I
never lied unless I had to, you know, like something

(21:36):
that would have made me found out that, like you know,
like so for the first three years, it was definitely tough,
but eventually I just couldn't take it.

Speaker 2 (21:45):
No more, you know, because you wouldn't you weren't being
honest to yourself.

Speaker 3 (21:49):
Yeah, and I I assumed I just do that until
I died, pretty much like I assumed I would get married.
You know, have kids and just have this secret and
just do whatever I needed to do to you know,
survive it, survived whatever.

Speaker 2 (22:18):
That's why I wanted you to be on the show
because I feel like a lot of men can relate
to this. And I feel like a lot of men
they have their they have these feelings, but they not
used to hearing. They probably not used to hearing other
men share these stories like how you doing with yourself,
and they feel seen. And I'm pretty sure when you
started your YouTube page, a lot of men felt seen

(22:38):
and they felt safe in a sense.

Speaker 3 (22:42):
Yeah, I think so. You know, when I first started
posting pictures like on Instagram on YouTube, like, the positivity
was overwhelming, and I was also surprised with you know
how many people who knew me actually were like yo,
like this is so commendable. What you're doing so brave?

Speaker 2 (22:57):
Yeah is that especially as a black man? Like you
know what I'm saying. Yeah, I think it's pretty dope.

Speaker 3 (23:06):
Yeah, So you know, if I inspired, and that's cool.
I just wanted to outlet At first, I just wanted
to post things and you know, be seen. I was
never really satisfied with like what I were on an
everyday basis, I would never like post shit on like
social media like that, for I'd never be excited to
you know, share like that.

Speaker 2 (23:27):
So how did your girlfriend take it when you told
her in college?

Speaker 3 (23:31):
She broke up with me? Yeah, she broke up with me,
like like the next day. I was pissed. That was hurt. Yeah, yeah,
she listen. It's complicated because you know, this is someone
who I don't She was shocked, you know, the way

(23:58):
I told her, the way I told her. And and
just for context, this was a white girl for full disclosure,
but not not that like you know there there I
haven't had black girlfriends also at the same but just
for this particular story, she happened to be.

Speaker 2 (24:16):
Whack, and but she was hard for you share the story.

Speaker 3 (24:21):
It's not hard. The only thing that's hard is me
telling it without like rambling. But but it's not hard emotionally.
But yeah, I said, hey, like I need to talk
to you about something. It just gotten to the point
where I just felt like every day I was like
cheating on her or just holding Yeah, it didn't feel right.

(24:44):
So I was like, you know, sometimes and this was
me as like a twenty one year old like sometimes
like I like to, you know, dress femininely. I like
to you know that That's kind of how I at
the time, because I was still kind of making sense
of it. I was like, you know, I got some things.

(25:04):
I wear them sometimes like to buy and makes the
feel good whatever, and she just was like silent, didn't
know what to say. She was like wait, like like
what she saying, like like Kitlyn Jenner, like that was
like her first question. Everything that was the scope of
her kind of like ding of cross dressing, her understanding

(25:26):
of it, of transness, cross dressing whatever. So once she
had asked me that question, I was like, yeah, I
don't know if I'm gonna be able to like come
back from this one. But she broke up with me.
I you know, after that kind of went through a
phase where I just started like over sharing potentially even

(25:49):
like I was just like, you know, telling everybody blah blah,
caause I knew people were going to ask, you know
what I'm saying. We were well known in our little
like circles on campus and stuff, and I was like,
I'm just going to tell truth, like blah blah blah.

Speaker 2 (26:01):
And what was the reactions you received once you start
telling everyone.

Speaker 3 (26:05):
Everybody was cool with it. Nobody gave a fuck, but
everyone was like, oh, that's awesome, Like, oh, I bet
you look better than me in a skirt. Oh, like
you know, that's so cool, like like whatever. The positive
feedback was, which was nice to hear, but I also
still didn't, you know, understand how it was going to
work with like what what would dating look like for

(26:28):
me in the future, because you know, I am I'm
in a relationship with a woman now, you know. I
it's when I get into like the finance sexual like
bisexual or like pan sexual whatever. I guess you could
say I'm pan sexual because you know I I can't have,

(26:49):
you know, attraction to anybody man, woman, trans whatever, and
I have, you know, But but at the time, I
was like the only legit hitiment way for me in society.
It's like day it's like for me to like, I
didn't That's what I kind of was alluding to before.
And I was like, I didn't understand what it meant
like to be queer because throughout high school it would

(27:12):
have made more sense if I had a stronger attraction
to guys. I'll put it that way, because in my mind,
I'm like I'm in my mind, I was like, well,
I don't think I'm gay, right, but I definitely am
not straight in the sense of like me wanting to
like present as a man it's supposed to present, or

(27:34):
you know, stuff like that. So but I didn't have
the language back then because I.

Speaker 2 (27:38):
Feel like when I was watching your videos, especially when
you're talking about college and like, you know, you growing up,
I feel like, at first you was a straight man.
And then I feel like, though, as you begin your
journey and you start to learn more about yourself and
you start to be open, if I'm not mistaken, that's
when you start to be more fluid. And then you
started to explore your sexuality cause then you made a

(28:00):
video about you going on dates for men and stuff.

Speaker 3 (28:03):
Yeah, oh my god, you saw that video.

Speaker 2 (28:05):
I mean I did my research because I'm like because
when I when I email you being transparent, I thought
that you was a straight man that they cross dresses,
and so when I think I was going down rabbit
hole of you, and I'm like wait, because I'm like,
is he transitioning to being a woman. So that's why
I follow up to you in the email and I'm like,
I hope I didn't offend you. This next I got

(28:27):
to a video. So that's why I was just like,
when you said you want to be on the show,
that that makes.

Speaker 3 (28:33):
That makes perfect sense now how you had that first
email and everything.

Speaker 2 (28:37):
Because I'm very polite, I guess y'all like I don't
because I'm very big on respects. I'm like, oh my god,
I hope I didn't offend him or anything offend them
because I was just like in the videos, I can
see the journey that you was going through.

Speaker 3 (28:50):
Mm hmm, yeah. I listened like the whole the whole
quote unquote straight cross dresser, Like that's a whole thing,
that's a whole it is. People identify as that, and
for a long time, that's that made the most sense.
So I'm always going to like that was kind of
like where I had started from, you know, in my journey.

(29:13):
I was like, oh, like I'm straight because I still
identify as a guy. I like women, but I like
to dress up like you know, like boom straight cross dresser.
It kind of makes a lot of sense. However, one
thing like for me, like I've I've done so much,
I wasn't I wasn't satisfied staying there. I guess it's
a way to say that I noticed even from like

(29:38):
a young age when I was like on the end
of trying to see are there any other people like me?
And everything? Even from the first time I stumbled across
the term cross dresser, like I would start to notice
a lot of patterns. One, it's hard to find other
cross dressers that are black. One who who used who

(30:01):
used that that term? You know what I'm saying. You know,
I started to understand like that term at least, and
like the practice and what's available to like see I
kind of consider like a quote unquote white term, Like yeah,
like the term doesn't have any racial connotation, but just

(30:22):
in terms of like the people who use that term more,
it's overwhelmingly lopsided in that way. And I spent a
lot of years like curious why that is. But now
I kind of understand. I understand a lot more. But
but before I unpack that, sorry, I kind of lost

(30:43):
where it was.

Speaker 2 (30:43):
But what have you ever reached out to those and
asked them those that's a part of the community and
just asks them, like why is it that a lot
of men don't use black cross dresser or like did
you ever have a conversation with anybody about that.

Speaker 3 (30:59):
I've tried to. But if one thing I've learned is
that for people white or black, largely, like you know,
if they're using crossdres, there's so much like anonymity.

Speaker 2 (31:09):
There's so much that's a fact.

Speaker 3 (31:11):
You know, people are trying to be discreet and so sometimes.

Speaker 2 (31:15):
It's that's a fact.

Speaker 3 (31:17):
Like I can give you personal anecdotes for sure, I've
had plenty. There are plenty of like black cross dress
I've had conversations with or whatever. But in terms of
like the visibility, you know, like if if you search
black cross dresser and google, like, I feel like my
face is probably going to come up.

Speaker 2 (31:36):
When I was on you you might see other.

Speaker 3 (31:38):
Like Hollywood things, but you're not going to see a
lot of amateur.

Speaker 2 (31:42):
Like every day when I was on YouTube and I
was doing research the black cross dressers that I would
see when they were not showing their faces exactly exactly,
that's it's one particular one and I can tell that
this cross dresser, like, this person's a OG and I
think they wear a mask or something. But when I
was looking at the white kind of parts of the
latinas Latinos whatever. They were showing their faces like, and

(32:05):
I was just, that's so crazy you said that, because
I definitely realized that, Yeah, I've.

Speaker 3 (32:13):
Done a lot of like like over the years and everything.
But that's one factor of why I'm like, Okay, this
label might not be super fitting for me one. But
also because like I'm not trying to be I don't
want to live in fair I'm not trying to be discreeened.
I'm not trying to like, you know, get married one day,

(32:35):
be masking as this straight man. My wife find out that,
you know, I like to wear dresses, she divorces me
or whatever. I'm kind of glad I had those experiences
earlier on and and I did even like move to
Kansas City after college, try to after I'd been out
kind of I tried to like re closet. I would say,

(32:59):
I thought that I could kind of sanitize all that
shit by moving to another city over kind of pretending
like none of that we're that weird queer. She ain't
never happened. I was trying to present more as like,
you know, all right, I'm gonna be business focused, I'm
gonna do all this stuff, and I you know I was.
I was kind of running away from it because it

(33:22):
was just psychologically too stressful for me. I didn't know
what to do about it, and I wanted to, you know,
enjoy the same type of life or whatever in success
that I was seeing my peers have. And I ended
up getting engaged out there, and that relationship ended up
ending because you know, you guessed it. I couldn't keep back,

(33:47):
you know, the and.

Speaker 2 (33:47):
You told your fiance or did she catch you?

Speaker 3 (33:53):
I told her. I told her straight up at the beginning,
but framed it similar to how I used to frame
it with like you know, youth pastors and stuff like
as like, hey, this is something that I'm trying to fix.
When I told her at the time, I was like,
this is something about my past. I've had sex with
men before, I've had sex with you know, women, trans women,

(34:16):
trans masculine men. Like like I explained that, like, you know,
I lived a life that wasn't completely homosexual or heterosexual,
and this is that. And the other she she was
she was a little like WHOA, there's a lot of information,
but I kind of like had waited to tell her
that until we had been on a few dates, until
she had an opportunity to know.

Speaker 2 (34:37):
You for you.

Speaker 3 (34:39):
Yeah, no, me for me in a sense, right, but
minus how I would have preferred to express myself. So
she was willing to get into that relationship because she
was like, if this is what you say it is,
you're not really interested in because it made her feel
very uncomfortable. Yeah, but she's like, if passed, then I
can I can look past that, Like it's okay with me.

(35:02):
I know you enough, I like you, so in my mind,
I'm like, cool back, I'm in the clear. But right again,
it's like I thought that if I could find the
person that I wanted to marry, then it would just
kind of wash away like all the other ship and

(35:22):
that's just not how I was tragically mistaken, you know.
So after so long, it just got to a point where, like,
you know, she felt like she wanted things out of
the relationship that I wasn't necessarily given, and that kind
of have forced us to kind of have an honest
conversation where I was like, yeah, you know what, I

(35:44):
got some I got some bras and dresses and wigs
hidden in that closet over there that I've been hiding
for the last two months. And like, you.

Speaker 2 (35:53):
Know, I can't even imagine how you was feeling, because
like that's type of feeling when you're thinking that you
can just get rid of something that's a part of
you like that. I oh, I can only imagine how
that felt. Like it must have been away at you.

Speaker 3 (36:10):
Yep, yeah, yeah, wow, cross dressers. I'm not I'm not
mad or offended by that term. Still, even though I
don't necessarily like you know, I feel like my identity
is different in more nuanced But that's kind of where
I lived for so long that like anyone who is there,

(36:33):
I feel like I relate to in a way. But
I just bring that up to say, like there be patterns,
like we all be going through these patterns of purging,
you know, accumulate all this ship. I did it in
high school, you know, once I got my license and
had a little bit of allowance money, i'd like, you know,
sneak off tool the mall, buy some cute things. Hide

(36:53):
it under my bed. My parents wouldn't find it. But
then we was moving one day and my dad comes
into the into my bedroom like he found it, Like no,
well he didn't find a brawl in my room once,
But I covered that up, cover that up. I convinced
him that I had I kind of that, like I
had to grow in my room because that was better

(37:14):
than wearing the bra, which is like so funny to me.
But yeah, but but we were moving and he was like,
all your ship needs to be packed up, and there
was no way for me to hide all the ship
I had accumulated over the course of like a whole year,
school year or whatever. So I like heels, wigs, like
things that, like I really like, you know, we're precious

(37:38):
to me because like I was so proud to have him,
even though I had to have trash bags fool just
just had to throw like had no other choice. It
was either throw that shit away or have a conversation
that you ain't ready to have for at least another
twelve years. It is kind of what it was.

Speaker 2 (37:54):
Your mom and dad didn't see it.

Speaker 3 (37:58):
They probably did that too, because because now as I
get older, I'm like, parents ain't stupid, Like don't get
me wrong, Like they might not know everything, but like
my mom knew that, like you know, she had a
she had a son or a kid who like it's
given the opportunity, probably would go for it.

Speaker 2 (38:20):
Especially since she saw you at a young age exploring it.
So I can only imagine that she had some type
of idea that you're doing something.

Speaker 3 (38:29):
Yeah, but you know, we never had those those conversations.
And whether or not my dad knew, I'm not sure.
My step mom who's whose ship? I used to like
be rummaging through for all I know she didn't know.
But I don't support.

Speaker 2 (38:44):
So how do they feel about everything now? Like have
they have you ever had a conversation with them?

Speaker 3 (38:49):
Yes, okay, absolutely, Listen, I was a good kid. I
ain't give them ship. You know, pay my bills. They
don't support they you know, they support me in terms
of like you know, they're my parents whatever, and you
know they hear from me whatever, but like they ain't
paying for my shit. They're not here living the life
a minute. So at this point, when I got older,

(39:10):
it was just a lot more easier for me to
be like, look, this is who I am, right, and
they love me and they accept me for what it is.
Yeah you know what I'm saying. They've even had their
own journeys with how that acceptance looked. At first, my
dad was very like, what the fuck this isn't natural.
I don't like this, it's very like whatever. But you know,
I've had heart tarts to every one of my family

(39:31):
members and we've kind of like grown through it.

Speaker 2 (39:34):
That's good. I'm just curious what age and who was
the first person you saw it as a straight cross dress.
Do you remember the first time you saw a man
in the dress.

Speaker 3 (39:44):
That's a good question. I remember the first time I
saw like a trans person, like on a porn site,
and that that was a very significant visual for me.
I was twelve, I think.

Speaker 2 (40:03):
But in terms of why was it that significant moment for you, I.

Speaker 3 (40:11):
Feel like I saw I feel like I saw my
future when I saw that, Like it was just one
of those it was like a visceral thing. It was
like like the fact that because I understood, I was like, oh,
this woman is so beautiful, this woman has a penis. Yeah,
you know, so I knew that. I felt like I
understood that like she had to had started where I started,

(40:36):
and I didn't know how she got there, you know
what I'm saying, But like this is I think that
was what was going on. But the fact that it
was possible and the.

Speaker 2 (40:44):
Fact that this is probably your first time ever seeing
something like that too.

Speaker 3 (40:47):
So yeah, the fact that it was actually possible to
like do that was very But that wasn't the first
time I was exposed to it, Like, you know, I
saw something on the Discovery Health about transition under like
surgeries and stuff once when I was like a kid.
And but even before that, like I don't know the
first time, like I would see it in like TV

(41:10):
shows and media like if it was like for comedy,
like if you know, if it's Eddie Murphy, like wearing
a dress and the nutty for thorough Friends Martin Lawrence.
I was like five years old when that movie came out,
you know. And but anytime I would see something like that,
any type of like cross dressing for TV, even though

(41:32):
it was by like an actor who I understood was
a ma or whatever, and I understood that there was
like a collective joke or whatever. Still in my brain,
I was like, mm hmm, that's actually that's that's that's
what I want right now, Like that's that's you know
what I'm saying. Or I would want to like how
could I how could I bet it? How could I
do that? How could I put myself in a position too?
But I didn't understand that there were at like real

(41:54):
people you know, who could like transition into I was
like a preteen and stuff and then like you know,
but even still, like I didn't understand like you know,
I saw like pornography and stuff, but that would seem
like very very far away from like every day you
know what I'm saying.

Speaker 2 (42:13):
So, do you think the media does a good job
with like exploring different communities, because like that's actually a
good point that you made, because I didn't even think
about that, like seeing Martin Lawrence in Big mama House
or seeing him being sane or all these different people.
Like do you think they do a good job with
depicting certain individuals in the media.

Speaker 3 (42:38):
Uh, My short answer is going to be like not really,
especially not back then. Yeah, but I think it also,
you know, you gotta look at like what is the
the purpose for it. So if we're talking about like
Big Mama's House, for example, and it's like the what's

(42:58):
that like stereotype? Is it the so what's that like
a mama? Yeah, yeah, old archetype or whatever, Like you know,
Big Mama's House is like I think, very corny and
cheesy because of that whole trope, like it's just like cheap.
It's like who produced this? Right, But if I'm looking

(43:22):
at it just because it's like, oh, this is the
only time I can see, like, you know, someone who
has like a who has his male body like be
able to step into femininity, then I took it for
what I could. Yeah, we're getting better, you know, with
streaming platforms and stuff and more opportunities for different voices
like create art. But you know, largely I think transness

(43:50):
uh is like underrepresented it uh underrepresented in in media
and stuff. But that's but that's not why you think.
So even now, like I said, it's getting a lot better. Yeah,
but you think all these classic films that we grew
up with and everything. There's a great documentary on Netflix
called Disclosure that is specifically about how how trans this

(44:15):
has been trans people and transnist has been portrayed through
media throughout Yeah. Right, we've been making videos and stuff,
and it's very it's a very good documentary that you know,
really expands on that question a lot more. And even
me watching it, I was like, oh, ship, Like so

(44:37):
much of the ship you know, grew up watching was
like hella, transphobia.

Speaker 2 (44:41):
I think I know exactly what you was, what you're
talking about, because I think they even went into like
black and white movies too. Yeah, I know exactly what
you're talking about. Yeah, so I know that you just
having our conversation, I can only imagine some of the
challenges that you face with your introduction to cross dressing

(45:04):
to where you at now. So what are some of
the things that you wish more people will understand, because
I feel like cross dressing has led you onto onto
your path of self discovery and acceptance.

Speaker 3 (45:15):
It has What I wish people will understand, especially people
who like are the people who want to do the
cross dressing, is that like it's it's closed, you know,
like don't don't get too hung up on the shame
and stuff. Is like it's it's really kind of hard

(45:38):
because it's like, you know, I've done so much things
in my life to remove myself from like those contexts
where like I would be like, oh my god, like
you know, this is so sometimes I gotta think a
little bit like oh yeah, Like but I wish people
would know, like it's it's not that big of a deal,
you know what I'm saying, Like, it's just it's just
really not like if if you know somebody who is

(46:00):
a straight man, they're also gay men who identify as
cross dressers too, but obviously it's like, oh you already gay, duh,
you're gonna wear a dress. Like it's not it's not
that much of it.

Speaker 2 (46:13):
But I think that's a misconception though, because a lot
of straight men, a lot of straight men across dresses
are not are not gay exactly.

Speaker 3 (46:20):
And again, like you know, most people who identify as
cross dressers, they do it because a lot I don't
I want to be careful with how I'm phrasing things,
but like you know, a lot, you know, the general
kind of consensus like well, yeah, the condemselves a cross
dresser because they are a cross dressed and it is
a more fitting title, and that's okay. Like you know,

(46:42):
they put on a dress sometimes and now they Susie,
but they Susie when the wig is on, but their
gim when the wig is off. Like that's cool. I
think that's very beautiful. Yeah, you know, I think I
think it's really cool. When I was really in that,
like a straight cross dresser kind of like world or mindset,

(47:03):
crossn't felt like a superpower. To me, it felt like
so like I felt so emboldened. Like my first Instagram
handle used to be like c D Superhero or something
like that, because it really made me feel like that.
It just felt so affirming. It just felt so wonderful.
And it's like something that like might feel oppressive for

(47:25):
one group of people, Like you know, if you were
born a woman and you're like, I don't want to
wear a dress every day, whereas like you know, I'm
a male and I'm like, oh, I wish I had
the freedom to like express myself whatever. It's like, you
gotta understand it's everything be relative, but like it just
is what it is. If I wish people would just
understand it's not that big, but deal, Yeah, it's just clothes.

(47:48):
It doesn't necessarily mean what you might think it means
off off the top. So if you don't understand something
about someone who cross dresses, like ask them yeah, you know,
or look to it and understand that everybody, there's a
million there's as many ways to be a thing as
there are people who are that thing, just like I
believe there's any ways to be a man as there

(48:10):
are men who are men, right right, A woman as
a woman. So same thing with cross dressers. Like some
people call themselves a cross dresser. Some people are like
you know, even though they're they look the same or
they're doing the exact same thing, they're like, no, I'm
a woman. We got to respect people are coming from
people are doing things for different things. Yeah, and everyone's

(48:33):
like life journey, it's just come from such different backgrounds.

Speaker 1 (48:36):
You know.

Speaker 2 (48:36):
You also made a good point in one of your
videos because when you were cross dressing, you know, you
mentioned how people would still use the wrong pronouns and
you you said in one of your videos like I'm
I'm a woman, like i'm female presentent, Like why would
you still call me use the wrong pronouns? So how
important was it for you to be passable?

Speaker 3 (48:58):
Mmmm? That's a good question. And yeah, look in the
crossdress and culture and by that I mean like you know,
the YouTube comments, the reddits, the subreddits and stuff like, yeah,
passability is something that like you know, we all strived for,

(49:20):
like that that was seen like you know, to be
the superior. Like oh, if you the more passable you were,
then definitely like the more like legitimate you were, And
that's cool. But let me make sure, I'm staying on
focusing your question. How important was that before me? Like

(49:41):
it was only important to me initially because like I
just wanted to It was just gratifying to me to
like see the transition. It's like, well, I look so
different than like you know, like like boy, Like I
look like a girl, like you know, like a woman.
I feel beautiful and everything. So it's affront Like if

(50:01):
I go out and people are still he and him
and me and all this stuff, then it's like a bummer,
just like at least you know what I'm saying. It's like, oh,
you know in this dress, Like that's what I'm saying.
I'm like, I ain't doing all this work and this

(50:22):
is that and the other. But but also there's a
lot there's like new updated thinking and understanding that has
perme per meate, like the community and everything where it's
like okay, like if you really want to unpack it,
like okay, well why is what is passibility? Like why
are we like you know, trying It's like we're breaking

(50:43):
out of the norms, but then we're trying to also
fit into different norms because like eurocentric beauty standards and everything.
So it gets really kind of like, look, if you
want to be passable, there's nothing wrong with that. But
I think I just people to like, look at why
it is you want what you want and everything. So look,

(51:06):
inso much as I'm a cross stresser, I'm gonna try
to be passable because that's what I'm you know, working
towards for that aesthetic, for that art or whatever. But
just to understand, like passibility kind of has some baggage
and everything. So that's why now like I'm confident who
I am, like you know, most of the time my
everyday life, like you know, I love a little do
rag with a bun situation. You know. I like these

(51:29):
little cat eye glasses. I keep my nails done. I
like to wear a beat.

Speaker 2 (51:33):
I'm not right now, you know what you're giving me
right now? Right you already know because you're smiling.

Speaker 3 (51:41):
Who I don't know from post listen, I ain't never
even seen. But so many people, so many people have
been like online have been like, oh you look like.

Speaker 2 (51:53):
So and so elect electro Oh she was a bad
Oh you was love it what it was.

Speaker 3 (52:02):
I've had niggas like ask me if like what house
I'm a part of and stuff if I wanted to
get in the ballroom culture, and I'm definitely open to it,
but I just haven't to this point.

Speaker 2 (52:12):
Honey, you would eat them up, baby, Okay, I can
see it. Now, you should watch both. You would love it.

Speaker 3 (52:19):
Yeah, I have to now I have you.

Speaker 2 (52:22):
You are giving me electric I think I think it
was an Electrica. But she was just fierce, Like she
was just so fired. And even when I look at
your style and your videos in the past, I feel
like you was into like old Hollywood, old glam fifty sixties,
Like is that like your yeah right.

Speaker 3 (52:42):
Yeah, no, that's definitely my like.

Speaker 2 (52:45):
Like your favorite error.

Speaker 3 (52:49):
Not definitely my aesthetic. Like you know, I like, you know,
when I first started dressing out and everything, I would
try to dress like, oh like what what a like
stylesh sensible, you know, mature like woman like you know,
wear and everything, and so yeah, I think a lot

(53:09):
of us, you know, if you if you were born
male and you got to cross the bridge somehow, you
know what I'm saying, Like, if you, however way, you
cross a lot of us like whoever was influencing us,
Like you know, whether it's our mom or our grandma
or whoever we usually have some people who's like style
I feel like, but yeah, that glamness. I think like

(53:33):
Wesley Snipes in that movie.

Speaker 2 (53:34):
Too Long food food like everything fire.

Speaker 3 (53:39):
No Sima Jackson like you know, like her, like you
know her style and everything. I'm not as like sassy
or have as much attend That's a classic.

Speaker 2 (53:49):
I love. That's great.

Speaker 3 (53:51):
I used to secretly dbr it like in in high
school and like watch it late at night and everything.

Speaker 2 (53:57):
But that's yeah. Now when you work, when you do
go outside and your addressed as a woman, like, do
you have to do certain things and make sure that
you're safe or with safety ever like an issue for you?

Speaker 3 (54:13):
Yeah, yeah, Listen. The thing I do most to make
sure I'm safe, I think it is, like, you know,
make sure I have a community of people who support me. Yeah,
for sure, whether it's my friends, my partner here. I

(54:37):
that's tough because it's always in the back of my mind.
I haven't been in too many situations where I've been
fearful because when I first got to campus, you know,
and I still live in the area where my college
is here in downtown Richmond. Right when I first got
to campus, being like in the middle of the city
and everything, like being a black man, Like you know,
I'd have girls like asking me to walk them places

(54:59):
at night, like to the library whatever so I was,
or go to parties with them just so they you know,
make sure you know they had someone scary looking or whatever,
or just because I was a man at all, like
I understood that, like I probably wasn't like the highest
on people's list to like mess with it or I
don't know, like at least that's how it felt. So

(55:19):
I felt kind of safeer, like being out at night
because most of the time people would get out of
my way. They like, oh, I'm a threat or whatever,
and I'm like, I'll use that negative stereotype to my advantage.
It's kind of how It's kind of how I looked
at it. So even when I, like earlier on, it
was like more covert, like I get dressed up late

(55:41):
at night, thing my car, like nobody knew where I was,
and listen, I would do a little prayer. Like before
I I'd be like, Lord, even when I thought I
was sending you feel what I'm saying, I still be like, listen,
I gotta do what I gotta do right now. Please
don't let me and let me return home safely. And
that'd be a little prayer that I said, and then
I go do what I did. But you know, I

(56:06):
I understand that there are situations that I could find
myself in that might be out of my control. But
I don't really be that fearful. I just make sure
I moved smart and stuff like, was.

Speaker 2 (56:20):
That ever a situation where it could have took a
turn for the worst.

Speaker 3 (56:29):
Sometimes I would do some like sketch things like I well,
so I would like early on, I would do things
where I would like maybe have non hetero nons like
not non hetero relations like in secret, but presenting as

(56:50):
a guy like I would oh or or I would
do the reverse, you know, And that's kind of that's
my superpower, my shape shifting this like, and that's just
kind of yeah, I'm not like doing sketch shit like
that or being secretive now, But how I was engaged
with my sexuality at the time. I would one time
I was meeting up with this this trans woman who

(57:13):
I met online, and we were meeting up like hook
up and everything, and you know, drive across the bridge
into like you know, this neighborhood that uh it was
a little little sketch. I don't really like saying sketch.

Speaker 2 (57:34):
I don't know.

Speaker 3 (57:36):
It was what it was. It was what it was.
And I pulled up and everything, and like my desire
to like have this experience was just I couldn't talk
to nobody, I could whatever, like, so I was like,
I gotta go through with this and everything. So I
show up and I mean I was like, I was
like ass naked, and all of a sudden, uh, she

(57:59):
like someone's not at the door, and she's like, oh shit,
hold up, what happened? Yeah, Like I don't know who
it was, but I don't know if it was for Nigga.
If it was, I don't know. I don't know it
was it was somebody who it was a better look
for me not to be around when they were there,
That's all I know. And so she had me like

(58:21):
hide in this closet, and I'm like nineteen or some
shit like that, Like I'm nineteen or twenty, and I'm
just like, I don't know what's going on. I'm scared.
And you asked Nigga closet right in a closet, Oh
my god. So but again, even in that situation, I

(58:42):
was calm, cool, collected. I'm thinking, like, Okay, what do
I need to do if I need to, like, you know,
kung fu or get out of here or whatever. But
that was kind of like the most precarious situation I've
been in, at least seemingly precarious situation I've been in.
But you know, I've had people say like hateful things
to me, but I've never been in a situation where

(59:04):
like I felt like immediate threat of my physical safety
unless I blocked it out.

Speaker 2 (59:14):
Like I don't think, okay, good, good, good child, you
being ass naked in this closet. I can only imagine
what you was thinking. You don't even know this person
like that?

Speaker 3 (59:25):
Oh I was really I was really out here on
some risky business.

Speaker 2 (59:28):
Yes, so we're almost finished. But what has been the
most fulfilling part of your cross dressing experience? Oh?

Speaker 3 (59:41):
The most fulfilling part is you know, I found a
lot of freedom, you know, personal life and literally, like
my ex fiancee, who I mentioned earlier, we broke up.
We broke up in October two thousand and one. By November,

(01:00:10):
I started an only fans, started making money, immedialy, not
crazy money, but like like that first month, I was
like because I had put myself out there when I
before I moved to Kansas City, I had developed a
fan base on Tumblr back in the day that used
to be you know, a cool spot before they kind

(01:00:32):
of change some of the rules and regulations or whatever.
If you know, you know, so so people like in
the in the cross dressing community, whether they were cross
dressers or admirers or tea girls or whatever, Like I
had a following tea girl. Sometimes it's used interchangeably as
cross dresser, but like you know, it's like tea for

(01:00:53):
like trans or whatever. But like it's just like one
of those things like depending like you might you might
see that term or even sissy, like you know, they
can have different connotations, different like specific meanings, but sometimes
we use them interchangeably or whatever, depending on whatever use it.
But anyway, so like I had, I knew I had

(01:01:14):
like this this following that was out there, but for
like three years I had just gone cold turkey off
the internet had some pictures up or whatever, but you
could find it like really searched, but like people were
wondering where the fuck was right, But I was on
a straight and narrow. I was getting right with the Lord,
I was engaged all this stuff. But she broke up

(01:01:34):
with me, and I.

Speaker 2 (01:01:34):
Was like fuck it.

Speaker 3 (01:01:37):
You know, not that it was all rosy and peace like.
I had a lot of like emotional and mental things
out of work through, but did make that decision for myself.
I remember, I was like, I got to move back
to Richmond. I was a teacher. I was a school
teacher at the time. I pashed out my pension from
the state of Missouri. Had a little you know, to

(01:01:58):
get my moving situation set up. But I started only
fans made a few hundred dollars the first couple of weeks,
and I was like, oh, because I also needed a
new car at the same time, I bought a new
car that month. I was like, at the very least,
my only fans will pay for my car. Note it's
been paying for a lot more than that. But it
allowed me to It gave me some financial freedom, stability. Yeah,

(01:02:25):
it gave me some stability, some space. It gave me
a space to be creative in a way that was
uniquely me to have control over. Like, hey, like, you know,
I have this idea. I want to put this out
and if you're a fan of it, you can hey
me to watch it, and you know that website is
going to take care of you know, some of the

(01:02:45):
like statistics and logistical shit. But I have a lot
of time back because of that and everything it gave me.
When I came back to Richmond. You know, I work
a serving job and everything, but I'm thankful that I
don't have to work there very much. I work there
a couple of days a week. I'll do our jobs
here and there. But between what I've been able to

(01:03:07):
build on, like the online revenue side of things, Like
it's given me freedom to experiment with my style, to heal,
to spend time with friends, to you know, be able
to take it with my partner here, like you know,
if she needs something or she's not feeling well or
something like you know she was today, Like I have
the space to do that. And I'm proud of that.

Speaker 2 (01:03:28):
I can tell you proud too.

Speaker 3 (01:03:31):
It helped me get rid of like the shame, because
I had so much shame that I had to shed
for a while. And even with my parents, who like
knew that, you know, they even like accepted that, like,
you know, okay, well, my kid who you know, was
my son who doesn't want to be called my son anymore.
Like stress it likes to you know, wear makeup and stuff.

(01:03:51):
I still was like not ready to tell them that
I was a sex worker, you know. And but you know,
I like I'm grown now, Like I can have that
conversation with my mom and be Frank and Cannon, be like, yeah,
this is what I do, Yeah, this is my or whatever,

(01:04:11):
and you know, it is what it is. Like I'm
still I'm still me. I'm still a good person. I
still like am responsible and you know, for myself spiritually
and financially whatever. I love you and I'm still like
you know, and also this is paying the bills and

(01:04:31):
you can't say ship exactly given me so much confidence.
It's given me.

Speaker 2 (01:04:36):
It's allowing you to, yeah, and be free. I think
that's the most important thing. And I always tell people,
as long as you are happy and safe, that is
all that matters. You ain't casting nobody, no harm, You're
not harming yourself. Like, I just want you to be
happy and free because the way this world is set
up with stressing already stressing niggas out. So the least
you can do is have some type of joy within

(01:04:58):
your home and if that means yeah, you having a
good time on only face and so be it. Okay,
you're making some coins, got the roof over your head,
the skin is glistening.

Speaker 3 (01:05:06):
Okay, yeah so but but now look, now I need
to go back and get back on my YouTube stuff
because I mean those videos are so dated. My look
is a lot.

Speaker 2 (01:05:16):
Better now, and I think you should get back on
YouTube because I think it's time for people to see
your evolution.

Speaker 3 (01:05:23):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:05:23):
I haven't to be listen the background shaking her head
like exactly.

Speaker 3 (01:05:29):
I haven't known exactly where to start, you know what
I'm saying. I appreciate you reaching out to me. I
appreciate having this conversation because these are the things that
I would rather be doing, Like you know, it's it's
more to me than just like you know, pretty selfies.
And I did talk about some stuff. I feel like
there's more like relevant things that we could be talking
about that's actually useful, and I appreciate you in this

(01:05:51):
platform to share some of that hopefully.

Speaker 2 (01:05:55):
But yeah, no, I think this is amazing. So two
more questions and we are done. So what advice would
you give to someone who is just beginning to explore
crost dressing, their sexuality, their identity and things of those nature.

Speaker 3 (01:06:10):
The quicker you can, the quicker you can accept yourself
for who you are, the better you know, if if
you're looking for they're they're like specific tips I could
give you, like, oh, like you know, go shop at
these stores because they're going to be cheaper, get these
makeup brands whatever. Like there you can find all that.

(01:06:33):
Figure that out right, right, you can figure it out
and and it'd be honestly annoying sometimes when people be
asking me certain stuff so much in my DMS, because
it's like I can tell, like sometimes they're asking meself
because they haven't quite gotten past the hump that I
had to get past I chose to get. You really

(01:06:53):
don't have to. Some people do live a double life
and whatever. But like the quicker you can, like you know,
start to frame things in a way that is like hey,
like this is something that is part of me. It
brings me joy, accepted for what it is, and not
have all this like shame, shame, negativity. That's my biggest advice,

(01:07:15):
Like work on that because then everything else is going
to flow. Like you you open up to your best
friend or you. The more you start opening up to people,
then you're going to start to get excited. You're gonna
start to feel proud about yourself. You're going to start
to walk in those aisles with a little more confident.
Even though you in the female section and you you're
tired of the woman that Macy's asking you if you
need any help and you just don't want to be

(01:07:38):
You're going to be a lot more confident, like, yeah,
actually I'm looking for something in this size. Can you
help me measure whatever you're going you know, so the
quicker you can do that, you're going to be set
up on the right track.

Speaker 2 (01:07:49):
And last, but not least, what would be some advice
you would tell your younger self if you can revisit
yourself in that bathroom.

Speaker 3 (01:07:58):
Oh damn, I would have came up with a better lie.
My mom kept knocking, was like, what are you doing.
I'm like, I'm pooping. I'm like, eight year olds don't
coop for forty minutes. I could have, but but in
all seriousness, you know, I'm damn, that's that's a little tough. Yeah,

(01:08:32):
Because here's the thing, like that eight year old in
the mirror like, I remember that day so vividly. I
remember looking at myself in that bathroom mirror and just
being filled with so much joy. You know, I'm proud
of that kid for for doing something that gave them joy.
But I would have I wish he you know, would

(01:08:55):
have like, not just I wish you would have challenged
his mom a little more. You know, my mom was
very gentle with me in that moment, and I as
she always was, regardless of her her you know, religious
beliefs and whatever, like, she was always gentle with me.
And I always appreciated that about my mother. But I

(01:09:18):
wish I would have like been able to articulate myself
a little better, or or been able to like but
but like you know, like a normal kid would have
been like, but what about Like but I was so
ashamed that I felt like I had disappointed my mother
that like I I just you know, kind of nodded

(01:09:40):
and like was like, okay, cool, shove this away until
you know, essentially puberty was like the next time it
really became like something like, oh my god, what am
I going to do with these thoughts? So I just
wish I would have like, you know, asked my mom
more questions. But you know, I'm not mad at myself.

(01:10:01):
How I handle myself in that moment I was eight
years old. I got to get myself some grace.

Speaker 2 (01:10:07):
Well, I'm so happy we were able to do this.
I think your story is so inspiring and I think
it was very beautiful. So I really appreciate you for
coming on the show and sharing your story and being
so open and transparent.

Speaker 3 (01:10:20):
Yeah, it's been a lovely conversation of an a And again,
thank you so much for reaching out, of course, and
I look forward to look forward to sharing.

Speaker 2 (01:10:27):
That with yes, Yes, and to the listeners. If you
have any questions, comments of concerns, please make sure to
email me at Hello at the phgpodcast dot com. And
like I always say, it's important for you to share
your storyline because you never know how it can be
someone else's lifeline. So until next time, everyone, later bye.

(01:10:53):
The Professional Homegirl podcast is a production of the Black
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