February 10, 2025 • 33 mins
Youngest children have a reputation for being rebellious, rule breakers, sociable, charming, a bit spoiled and maybe even attention seekers. Is all of that true? And why is that the case? In today's episode, let's tackle the last sibling in our birth order series by deep diving in the psychology of birth order theory, alongside:
- The biggest stereotypes about youngest children
- Why youngest children are treated and raised differently
- What makes youngest children so successful in business?
- Can we predict who youngest children will marry?
- What struggles youngest children encounter in their families + much more!
Listen now, youngest and all other siblings alike to learn more.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hello everybody, Welcome back to the show. Welcome back to
(00:03):
the podcast, new listeners, old listeners, Wherever you are in
the world, it is so great to have you here,
back for another episode as we of course break down
the psychology of our twenties. Today we are tackling the
lucky last in our birth order series. You heard that, right.
After all of the waiting and the many, many requests,
(00:26):
we are finally discussing the psychology of the youngest child
and what their position in the family means for everything
from their personality, to their relationship and professional choices, to
their relationships with their middle and eldest siblings, not just
in childhood but in adulthood as well. The youngest child
(00:48):
is quite obviously the baby of the family and that
position shapes their experiences a lot. And I'm so interested
in the research around this, from birth order theory to
some other theories as well as some of the stories
that you all have shared with me. And you know,
we just have a really comprehensive, fascinating, packed personality episode
(01:11):
for today. I don't do this very often, but I
think I'm just going to skip the rest of this
intro and let the episode speak for itself. You know,
let's keep it short and sweet. There is so much
to cover without further ado, let's discuss the psychology of
the youngest child. So let's do a quick recap of
(01:36):
what we know about birth order theory, so the arguments
for it and the arguments against it as well. We
know that as humans, we are a product of many
many things, some tangible, some intangible, everything from genetics, to
country of birth, to parenting style, food, all of these
things that kind of fall into two categories, nature and nurture.
(02:00):
What we are born with, what we are raised in. Now,
the position we are born into a family is part
of our environment, and therefore it kind of falls into
the nurture category. It influences our personality because of how
it impacts how we were raised and therefore how we
end up experiencing the world into adulthood. So this saying
(02:24):
really goes and I always use this saying to describe
birth order theory. Just because you're raised in the same
house doesn't mean that you had the same childhood as
your siblings, and your position in the family contributes to
this difference in childhoods because you know, for all intents
and purposes, two people who go through the same upbringing
(02:46):
and are raised in the same house by the same parents,
they should turn out pretty similar. And yes, we have
to account for nature and our personality and how which
is born and who we are when we kind of
come out of the womb, but is a significant difference
in how our parents treat us. So the man who
developed birth order theory, he was kind of the first
(03:06):
one to say to notice this. His name was Alfred Adler.
You may also know him from the creation of the
inferiority complex. Also, he was like a founding father of
individual psychology, which if you study psychology you've probably done,
Like I don't know a unit in this. Basically he
says that in individual psychology, what we're really looking for
(03:29):
is a sense of mastery and a sense of completeness.
That doesn't really matter. It's not what we're talking about today.
But he was really working hard during the early and
mid nineteen hundreds. But birth order theory as it stands
today is probably what he is most well known for,
and it basically says that being the oldest, youngest, middle,
(03:51):
or only child will affect what characteristics and traits you develop. Now,
let's be really, really clear because we see a lot
of like birth order theory tiktoks going around and Instagram videos.
It is not a medical prescription, like I cannot diagnose
you as an eldest daughter. I cannot diagnose you as
a youngest son. Like that's a descriptor it doesn't you know,
(04:15):
if you go to a psychologist, they're not going to
like include that on your chart notes. Is like something
that needs an intervention because it's just kind of who
you are. It's definitely like a theory. It's a theory,
and a theory like any theory like has gaps, it
has exceptions, it has flaws. What I kind of see
(04:35):
birth order theory is doing is filling the same role
as personality tests, Like they provide like there is research
behind them, and they provide a structure or guide for
better understanding of where we sit in relation to others,
But they are not a full answer to the questions
we have about ourselves. Like they're really interesting to explore
(04:56):
and they're really interesting for reflection. But of course anything
like that that says you are only the way you
are because of this one thing and this one test
or this one theory can tell you like it's not accurate.
We exist in a much larger ecosystem of factors in
contexts and situations. With that being said, let's say what
(05:17):
this theory has to say about the unique traits and
character of the youngest child. According to this theory, the
eldest child is often very responsible, very type A. They
kind of take care of everyone else, especially if you're
an eldest daughter, you know that kind of makes sense.
They mature the fastest, they're the oldest. They take care
of a lot of the younger children. They're set up
(05:38):
as a role model. Then we have a middle child.
The middle child is seen as the mediator or the peacemaker.
They're actually sometimes referred to as the easy or invisible
child because of how they are sandwiched between the eldest
and the youngest. Also, middle children like sometimes they don't
even get to be the only middle child, Like they
(06:01):
have to share that position with someone else. And then
we have the youngest child, the little baby of the family.
By the time your parents have gotten to their final child,
especially if you're in a big family of three plus kids, Like,
let's be so real, they are tired. They are tired.
All of the discipline that they had for their eldest
(06:24):
or older children, all the rules that they promised to implement,
all their energy has kind of dissipated because parenting is really,
really hard. It reminds me of this interview I saw
the other day with Billie Eilish's mum, really random, and
she talked about how being a parent, especially being a mother,
(06:44):
requires you to use every single creative skill, every single
life skill you have ever developed, like anything you would
put on a resume and more goes into being a parent.
And it's right, Like she's totally right. It's a full
time for soul, full body effort, and imagine giving one
hundred percent to your job for eighteen years straight. Like
(07:06):
by the time you get to that final kid, those
final years, like you are cutting a few corners, especially
when they're teenagers as well. So there's a two thousand
and eight study that looked into this, conducted by Research
as a Duke University, and if you want to check
out this research paper, it's titled the Games Parents and
Adolescents Play. And what they found was that eldest and
(07:29):
older siblings are actually raised in a more strict environment,
like they're penalized more sometimes they're used as an example,
but it also does seem that our parents get softer
with age as a result. Youngest children they kind of sense,
they know that they can get away with much more
than their eldest or older brothers, siblings, sisters, so they're
(07:51):
on average more likely to engage in risky behaviors. Research
from the University of Birmingham and the University of Reading.
I don't know if it's reading or reading. I'm going
to say reading. They also found that youngest children in
the families they are also more likely to be self employed.
They are nearly fifty percent more likely to take the
(08:11):
risk of going into business for themselves, so they're risk takers,
the entrepreneurial and this findings were like, this was a
large study. It had almost seventeen thousand children who they
surveyed them in first in nineteen seventy and then again
at thirty eight years old. And some of them are younger,
some of them are middle some of them were only children,
(08:32):
and the youngest child they were the ones who were
most likely to take risks. I think that's a really
cool trait about younger siblings. And I will say the
people who I know in my life who have taken
the leap of faith to start their own business, to
take the road less traveled, Like the majority of them
are younger siblings. And I think about like my office space,
(08:55):
so I work in an office space that I kind
of rent out with a couple of friends in Sydney,
and most of them like are running their own businesses.
They're running their own side hustles and like they're doing
that full time or their self like they're self contracted,
like they do contract jobs. And every single one of
them that's in that office is a youngest child. So
(09:18):
speaking of entrepreneurial spirit, like, that's the evidence I kind
of see in my own life, which is obviously speculation,
but I think it's interesting. I will say, please, by
no means take any of these observations as rules, Like
if you are a youngest child and you're not entrepreneurial,
it doesn't mean that there's something wrong with you. Or
if you're listening to this and you're not a youngest child,
(09:39):
like and you want to start a business, like, by
no means, does this mean that you can't Like it's
it's I think ridiculous to look at these rules and
think that they will apply to everyone, but I think
it's just an interesting pattern to recognize in society amongst
people who are just making organic choices. This really links
(10:01):
to the first big stereotype about youngest children though, that
they're rebellious, that they're more carefree. You know, the youngest
child is sometimes seen as the problem child, like they're
the ones who need to like get bailed out of
jail or whatever, because they seem to have had a
more relaxed childhood environment. And what also comes with this
relaxed environment is being spoiled. So the second big stereotype
(10:25):
for today is that youngest children are spoilt. They get
more gifts, they get more financial support, they get more praise.
There is much less research on this compared to the
previous stereotype, mainly because it's slightly hard to measure because
of what we call the social desirability bias in psychological research.
(10:46):
So if we ask parents, okay, which one of your
kids gets more gifts, which kid do you spend more
money on, etc. They obviously don't want to sound like
they're playing favorites, so they're not going to be entirely honest.
And if you ask the youngest child they're probably not
going to have noticed, right. There may be a situation
(11:07):
where when you're asking them, like they're probably over the
age of eighteen in order to participate in this research,
Like they're probably the only child left at home if
that's the case, so they don't have the comparison that
the eldest and middle children would have. And that's the
final person we might ask eldest and middle children. They
probably are also going to be biased, you know how
(11:29):
like competitive siblings can get. You know, they might be
looking at the youngest child, the youngest baby of the
family and going like, hey, I never got that, Like
I never got to buy new shoes whenever I wanted,
Like I never got to just get away with things
like that. So it's a kind of a tricky one
to think about. Like, if you find a way to
measure this, please let me know. I think it would
(11:50):
be a very interesting study. But basically, what we can
really rely on is kind of speculation, and it's speculation
that I want you to I want you to do
for yourself. So I'm going to give you a hypothetical
and you just tell me if this applies to you.
So thinking about your family Christmases, holidays, celebrations. Which child
(12:12):
got more presence, got more attention, got more time, maybe
got more financial help whatever it is like money, it
is usually the youngest. And you know what, quite frankly,
I understand, Like they're the cutest. Everyone likes the little one.
Everyone feels more protective of the youngest because they are
(12:33):
by their age less capable, less mature. So naturally it
might seem that they're being spoiled in comparison to older
siblings at the time. But when the eldest child was
also at the youngest stage, like at some point the
eldest child is going to be an only child, they
were probably also spoilt to the same degree. In fact,
I think it's actually the middle child who tends to
(12:55):
miss out the most. Also, like it's not all sunshine
and rains for the youngest. Like this pattern of behavior
of being spoilt, of maybe being a people being less
strict with them can also lead to a phenomenon being
known as infantilization. This is something that youngest children you know,
report that they experience even when they leave their childhood
(13:19):
and their teenage years, even when they become adults, they
are still treated like an infant, they are still treated
as less capable by their families because even when they're twenty,
twenty five, thirty fifty, their age may change, but the
position in the family as the youngest doesn't change. And
this can be a big source of tension for some
(13:40):
people as they get older and they try and advocate
for themselves, they try and be independent, they try and
you take charge in the family. Sometimes they are met
with resistance. So there was a large scale internet study
published in twenty twenty two that looked at over thirty
two thousand individuals and it found at this treatment is
(14:02):
infantilization actually was really really harmful and led to a
lot of resentment, but also led to a lack of confidence,
sometimes specifically amongst people who were youngest children or who
had reported experiencing experiencing it not just in childhood but
now as adults. Okay, so let's talk about one more
(14:22):
aspect or stereotype of the youngest child personality that you
may have already heard of. So we talked about how
they are risk takers, a bit rebellious, how they may
be spoilt. You've probably also heard that they're you know,
their attention seekers, they like to make waves, they like
to stir the pot, they like to put on the
dance shows to be a bit ridiculous. I personally think
(14:45):
this is also what makes them so social and really charming.
You know, the reason why this may be the case
is because the youngest child has had to battle to
be noticed. You know, yes, they may be spoilt, but
they are also sometimes the second, third, fourth, maybe even
fifth child. Everyone else has kind of already found their role,
(15:08):
you know, the family, maybe at ma's capacity. So the
youngest wants to find their space, they want to find
their part, and that can lead to what we would
call attention seeking behavior. But I think it's you know,
deeper than that. I think it's actually identity formation when
you have someone who has already set the bar, when
you have the eldest children also, just to throw this
(15:31):
stereotype even further out the window, some research actually suggests
that it's actually eldest or only children who typically want
or demand more attention because they, you know, they remember
a time when they got it all. So I don't
think that this like stereotype is entirely true. There you go,
(15:52):
we debunked some of the common misconceptions about youngest children,
but also kind of hopefully confirmed some of their wonderful traits,
which is that they're fun, they're outgoing, their entrepreneurial, their
risk takers. We are going to take a short break,
but when we return, we are going to talk about
whether being a youngest child has, you know, any impact
(16:15):
on dating choices, career choices, and how to deal with
some of the downsides of being the last born. So
stay with us. A big element of birth order theory
that I think fascinates people to no end is how
(16:37):
it can potentially influence some rather big choices and aspects
of our life, from who we choose to date, who
we choose to marry, who we choose to be friends with,
to profession even and so much more so does being
the youngest child predict much when it comes to these
large choices. Let's start by talking about relationships. The biggest
(17:01):
thing you will hear when it comes to dating choices
for youngest children is that they will only choose an
older sibling like a firstborn or an older middle child,
because they tend to appreciate the stability. They want that rock,
They want someone to calm their wildness. Maybe and for
their partner who is an eldest child or an older child.
(17:26):
They are very responsible, so they appreciate the spontaneity. They
like to be with someone who can help them see
things differently and kind of let loose. That's particularly the case.
You know, some people would suggest for youngest sons who
are heterosexual, they may be more inclined to date eldest daughters.
Now let me say this, this has absolutely been the
(17:49):
case of my own life. Like my boyfriend of almost
two years, he is a younger son. All of my
best friends who are eldest daughters are dating younger sons.
And this is why I find it so rewarding. My
boyfriend is just so chill like. He is so chill,
no drama, all fun, all outgoing, clear headed. And for
(18:14):
someone who is quite anxious, who really overthinks everything, who
is a perfectionist and I feel like I need to
be in control, he really levels me out in like
the perfect complimentary way. It's like, you know how they
say opposites attract, Like we feel the parts of the
other person's personality that they can't feel themselves. And I
(18:35):
really feel like that has been the case. And obviously
it's not just birth order theory. It's a lot of
other factors that have contributed to us being together. But
you know, like he has older sisters, so that probably
also helped. But you know, when I hear this idea
of like eldest daughter's younger sons, I'm always like, ooh,
(18:58):
I hate to say it, but it applies only children
and last borns. So only children and youngest children also
balance each other out really really well for some reason.
So I heard this really fascinating interview with this psychologist
and she was talking about why this is the case,
and she said, it really has to do with the
fact that firstborns and only children are kind of cut
(19:23):
from the same cloth. So if you're a youngest child
and you like eldest children, like that's who you kind
of end up dating. A lot of only children are
very very similar. They're very self reliant, they're expected to succeed,
and then you have the younger child who brings like
the liveliness and the creativity to the relationships. So again
(19:44):
it helps the counteracts in a really specific way. So
I think whilst you know, younger siblings are very much
risk takers, they're entrepreneurial, sometimes they also kind of fly
by the seat of their pants, kind of makes it
chaotic if two youngest siblings are dating, because someone needs
(20:05):
to be have that kind of organization or part of
their brain at the forefront, Like someone needs to be
somewhat forward thinking, somewhat responsible, And if you have like
two youngest siblings together, yeah, it can be explosive. Like
you're both risk takers, you're both outgoing, but sometimes you
need like that anchor. So that is what birth order
(20:26):
theory and position might mean for dating. Again, this is
no like, this is not a restrictive rule. If you
can find someone that you love and you care about,
like doesn't matter, doesn't matter where they were born, who
they were like, what position in the family. Like that
kind of love is rare enough. So don't listen to
this and look at your own life and say, oh
(20:47):
my god, I'm dating a youngest child and I am
a youngest child, like we should break up. No, please
don't do that. Please don't do that because of me,
because it's like it's one of many, many things. So
we've already spoken about how youngest children take more risks,
so that makes them, you know, business leaders, startup founder,
is quite entrepreneurial. But really there haven't been any long
(21:10):
term studies on birth order and career prospects, which I
don't know. I think that that would be really phenomenal
for all like the somewhat controversy around birth order theory,
I feel like a study like that could really maybe
silence or prove some of the doubts. And it would
be so fascinating to do, like a longitudinal research study
(21:32):
where you interview like people at twelve, at nineteen, and
then at thirty or some point in time, and see
what careers they ended up choosing. But looking at our
profile again of youngest children, their outgoing, social rebellious, rule changes, charming,
maybe a little bit attention seeking. Even those negative qualities
(21:55):
are assets, the assets when it comes to your career.
Someone with these traits is more likely to thrive in
a profession that involves performance, leadership, persuasion, risk taking, so
things like entertainment sales, being a startup founder, investment banking,
and investigative journalist. A lobbyist like someone who really pushes bounds,
(22:20):
someone who isn't afraid to be, you know, perhaps a
little bit more out there than your average Joe. I
think about my youngest sister as an example of this
all the time, Like she is so creative, but she
also thinks and dreams so much bigger than me. You know,
I am very overly cautious. My middle sister is just
(22:41):
like the chillest person ever. Like she's an athlete, so
she's very focused, but she's also just like, yeah, whatever,
I'm going to go with the flow. Whatever happens will happen.
My little sister, though, is like I Am going to
conquer the world. And I'm always the one who's like,
oh my god, but have you considered this, like this
could go wrong? Like have you considered this like this
could this could be a problem, Like what are you
(23:01):
gonna do about that? And she's kind of like, Okay,
I'll deal with it. Like she really has that vibe
of like it's gonna work out for me, and it's
something I really really love about her. The youngest child
definitely has their you know, with all their strengths, there's
also things they struggle with in relation to like the
family dynamic, and we've talked about them a little bit already,
(23:24):
but one we haven't spoken about is like a sense
of competition and feeling left out by their other siblings.
So especially when you're a child, like you forever want
to be part of the big kids games and the
big kids' activities, but you know, you're just a little
the little annoying one. You're the one that's like going
(23:46):
to ruin it. You're like not quite at the level
that your oldest siblings want you to be at. And
it can mean that you feel, you know, quite excluded
and quite like almost in competition with yourself to get
an invite to this like exclusive childhood party. I think
(24:06):
they sometimes feel looked down upon. You can feel really
compared to your older sibling or overshadowed, not because you're
less capable, just because you've simply had less time. Like
having older siblings is like having a moving marker ahead
of you that is impossible to reach, Like even if
(24:27):
you do somehow reach it, like there's always going to
be you know, you're always going to be looking back
and seeing what the elder sibling is doing, and there
is a sense of competition, like they were the first
one to graduate high school. They may have been the
first one to go to university, the first one to
do all of these things that you can only just
do after them, and if you are perhaps not as
(24:49):
intelligent or academically inclined as they are, can feel like
your parents or your aunts or your uncles or people
are looking at you and being like, oh, like you're there.
How come you're not operating at their level. I have
found though, that actually this tends to switch up the
older we get, so the sense of competition in comparison
(25:13):
kind of goes away. And I was talking to my
friend Steph about this and how she has an older sister,
and her older sister was like, well, now I compare
myself to you, like you are doing such cool things,
and as I'm like approaching thirty, like I kind of
want your life. And I was like, huh, that's very
very interesting that you spend your whole childhood wanting to
(25:33):
be like your older siblings, and then you know your
elder sibling looks back and is like, I just want
to be where you are, Like I'm so nostalgic, but
also so impressed by you. Final point, and this was
wonderfully described by an article from the Therapeutic Center for
Anxiety and Trauma, and it's the youngest children struggle with
(25:55):
just getting whatever's leftover. And I don't just mean food
or resources or even hand me downs. I'm talking about
roles in the family. The longer a family has been together,
the more rigid every person's role has become. So by
the time the younger sibling arrives, the family has kind
(26:17):
of established a pretty consistent and fixed dynamic that more
or less works for everyone involved. So younger siblings may
end up adopting whatever role the family still needs and
still lacks. So if everyone in the family is happy,
go lucky, and really go with the flow, the younger
(26:37):
sibling might fill that gap and become the responsible one.
Or another scenario, you know, everyone in the family is
arguing and fighting and there's a lot of tension. The
younger sibling may feel inclined to break the tension by
being the joker or by redirecting the focus of the
family onto themselves. Also an interesting phenomena that I think
(27:00):
we're noticing maybe more these days is youngest children who
have a significant age gap between themselves and the next
child up. So people who you know, their parents were
kind of done having kids pretty early and then they
were surprised by another baby, or they decided you know
a little bit later like, Okay, it doesn't feel like
(27:21):
our family is quite complete, like it does, feels like
we're missing someone, And they choose to have a child
much much later on, and in that case, like the
youngest child can take on the personality of an only
child because it you know, I've heard of age gaps
of like fifteen twenty years at times like that. That's
(27:42):
possible these days. So with all of that in mind,
we can see that being the youngest is quite a
complex experience. How do we overcome some of the challenges.
How do we embrace the strengths as well as the difficulties.
I think talking about the first point that I kind
of made way up the top of this episode, which
was infantialization, being treated like you're incapable or like you
(28:07):
are a child even when you become an adult, I
think what really needs to happen is at some point
you have to make a very forceful assertion of your independence.
And whether that is through having a conversation with your
family or moving somewhere like far away, or doing something
that really says like I'm my own person. Most youngest
(28:30):
children will find that at some point they need to
address this ongoing sense in their family that they need
to be protected, they need to be taken care of.
It is it is actually totally okay to say to
your family, hey, you got me wrong, Like, yep, I
understand that that is the personality or the person that
(28:50):
you thought I was. I'm not that person anymore, and
this is who I am. I'm someone who is independent.
I am someone who is adventurous and who can take
care of myself. I want you to I want you
to treat me that way, Like that's actually totally totally okay.
I think also sometimes there is a point of separation
(29:11):
that is needed, a separation between the parents or even
your siblings, whether it's through solo traveling, whether it is
through moving away, whether it is just through spending a
little bit less time with them. A lot of youngest
children that I've spoken to or that I've heard speak
about this in interviews have been like that was the
real thing that helped me break out of like the
(29:32):
stereotype that my own family was kind of perpetrating. The
next big thing that I think we need to address
is this sense of competition and comparison wooft. That's a
hard one and it's not like it's comparison with a
random stranger on the internet. Like you can't really say
to yourself, oh, there's gaps in that narrative, because the
chances are is that you know what's happening with your
(29:54):
eldest and older siblings. That's what makes the comparison sting
even more is that they are such a close counterpart
to you. What I say to this is this. What
I say to this is this. This is what I
want to say about it. Like I said, it can
feel like there is this constant, constant marker like ahead
of you that you can never catch up to because
(30:15):
of your age. I want you to really really sit
and reflect on what it is you're chasing and what
is this end goal that you're working towards, because when
you really start to think about it, what you're really
chasing is someone else's journey. But also it's like this
race to an imaginary finish line, and the imagin finish
(30:37):
line is like the end of your life. So it's
okay to take things a little bit slower and just
remember that, like, it's not about timelines, it's not about
what other people are doing. This is really like all
you have, like your journey and your life is all
you have, and you are totally entitled to figure it
out as you go along, to take your time to
(30:58):
do things that are different regardless of you. Know, if
your whole family is very academic and you decide you
want to go do something else, like, that's okay. If
your whole family are creatives and you've decided you want
to be an accountant, like, that's also okay. You're allowed
to assert your own preferences for your life and follow
them deeply and commit to them deeply. Even if there
(31:20):
is this person ahead of you who you think that
you should be like, like, they're doing that's their journey,
that's their experience. Don't let their experience overshadow the one
that you want to have as well. My final reflection
is that you know, youngest children face a lot of
unique challenges. They also have a lot of gifts. How
(31:41):
can you use that to your advantage? What were the
positives that you heard in this episode that you can say, wow, like,
I have this ability more than some other people that
I would know to be someone who sees risk differently,
Be someone who is okay with challenging the rules, Be
someone who thinks outside the box, who is outgoing, Like
(32:02):
those are huge advantages. Take those advantages and deal with them.
Whatever it is you wish, Like that is you, you
have this beautiful personality. You are probably a wonderful person. Honestly,
I have such a soft spot for youngest children, So
let's just yeah, I just think they're amazing, Like they're
some of my favorite people to be friends with, and
(32:24):
I love them very very much. So if you're a
youngest child, yeah, big claps for you. I think you're
I probably would really get along with you. That's what
history has told me. And I want to know if
this resonates with you. So this is kind of like
my own research, like this is this accurate looking at
your own life? Do you find yourself reflected in this analysis?
(32:49):
Or do you think you're someone who is very very different?
And if you are, if you think you're someone who's
very very different, I want to hear from you just
as much as the people who say this is really
spot on for me, because you know, I'm constantly questioning
this theory as well, and I want to know anecdotally,
like whether it applies. So I'd love to hear from
you if there's anything else that you think stands out
(33:10):
with you and your youngest child friends, let me know
that as well. And I hope you just enjoyed this episode.
I hope you learned something. Make sure to leave a
five star review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, wherever you are listening,
drop a comment down below if you're a youngest child
and what you have learned from this episode or what
resonates with you, and we'll be back next week with
(33:31):
another episode. Until then, stay safe, stay kind, be gentle
to yourself, and we will talk soon.
Hello everybody, Welcome back to the show. Welcome back to
(00:03):
the podcast, new listeners, old listeners, Wherever you are in
the world, it is so great to have you here,
back for another episode as we of course break down
the psychology of our twenties. Today we are tackling the
lucky last in our birth order series. You heard that, right.
After all of the waiting and the many, many requests,
(00:26):
we are finally discussing the psychology of the youngest child
and what their position in the family means for everything
from their personality, to their relationship and professional choices, to
their relationships with their middle and eldest siblings, not just
in childhood but in adulthood as well. The youngest child
(00:48):
is quite obviously the baby of the family and that
position shapes their experiences a lot. And I'm so interested
in the research around this, from birth order theory to
some other theories as well as some of the stories
that you all have shared with me. And you know,
we just have a really comprehensive, fascinating, packed personality episode
(01:11):
for today. I don't do this very often, but I
think I'm just going to skip the rest of this
intro and let the episode speak for itself. You know,
let's keep it short and sweet. There is so much
to cover without further ado, let's discuss the psychology of
the youngest child. So let's do a quick recap of
(01:36):
what we know about birth order theory, so the arguments
for it and the arguments against it as well. We
know that as humans, we are a product of many
many things, some tangible, some intangible, everything from genetics, to
country of birth, to parenting style, food, all of these
things that kind of fall into two categories, nature and nurture.
(02:00):
What we are born with, what we are raised in. Now,
the position we are born into a family is part
of our environment, and therefore it kind of falls into
the nurture category. It influences our personality because of how
it impacts how we were raised and therefore how we
end up experiencing the world into adulthood. So this saying
(02:24):
really goes and I always use this saying to describe
birth order theory. Just because you're raised in the same
house doesn't mean that you had the same childhood as
your siblings, and your position in the family contributes to
this difference in childhoods because you know, for all intents
and purposes, two people who go through the same upbringing
(02:46):
and are raised in the same house by the same parents,
they should turn out pretty similar. And yes, we have
to account for nature and our personality and how which
is born and who we are when we kind of
come out of the womb, but is a significant difference
in how our parents treat us. So the man who
developed birth order theory, he was kind of the first
(03:06):
one to say to notice this. His name was Alfred Adler.
You may also know him from the creation of the
inferiority complex. Also, he was like a founding father of
individual psychology, which if you study psychology you've probably done,
Like I don't know a unit in this. Basically he
says that in individual psychology, what we're really looking for
(03:29):
is a sense of mastery and a sense of completeness.
That doesn't really matter. It's not what we're talking about today.
But he was really working hard during the early and
mid nineteen hundreds. But birth order theory as it stands
today is probably what he is most well known for,
and it basically says that being the oldest, youngest, middle,
(03:51):
or only child will affect what characteristics and traits you develop. Now,
let's be really, really clear because we see a lot
of like birth order theory tiktoks going around and Instagram videos.
It is not a medical prescription, like I cannot diagnose
you as an eldest daughter. I cannot diagnose you as
a youngest son. Like that's a descriptor it doesn't you know,
(04:15):
if you go to a psychologist, they're not going to
like include that on your chart notes. Is like something
that needs an intervention because it's just kind of who
you are. It's definitely like a theory. It's a theory,
and a theory like any theory like has gaps, it
has exceptions, it has flaws. What I kind of see
(04:35):
birth order theory is doing is filling the same role
as personality tests, Like they provide like there is research
behind them, and they provide a structure or guide for
better understanding of where we sit in relation to others,
But they are not a full answer to the questions
we have about ourselves. Like they're really interesting to explore
(04:56):
and they're really interesting for reflection. But of course anything
like that that says you are only the way you
are because of this one thing and this one test
or this one theory can tell you like it's not accurate.
We exist in a much larger ecosystem of factors in
contexts and situations. With that being said, let's say what
(05:17):
this theory has to say about the unique traits and
character of the youngest child. According to this theory, the
eldest child is often very responsible, very type A. They
kind of take care of everyone else, especially if you're
an eldest daughter, you know that kind of makes sense.
They mature the fastest, they're the oldest. They take care
of a lot of the younger children. They're set up
(05:38):
as a role model. Then we have a middle child.
The middle child is seen as the mediator or the peacemaker.
They're actually sometimes referred to as the easy or invisible
child because of how they are sandwiched between the eldest
and the youngest. Also, middle children like sometimes they don't
even get to be the only middle child, Like they
(06:01):
have to share that position with someone else. And then
we have the youngest child, the little baby of the family.
By the time your parents have gotten to their final child,
especially if you're in a big family of three plus kids, Like,
let's be so real, they are tired. They are tired.
All of the discipline that they had for their eldest
(06:24):
or older children, all the rules that they promised to implement,
all their energy has kind of dissipated because parenting is really,
really hard. It reminds me of this interview I saw
the other day with Billie Eilish's mum, really random, and
she talked about how being a parent, especially being a mother,
(06:44):
requires you to use every single creative skill, every single
life skill you have ever developed, like anything you would
put on a resume and more goes into being a parent.
And it's right, Like she's totally right. It's a full
time for soul, full body effort, and imagine giving one
hundred percent to your job for eighteen years straight. Like
(07:06):
by the time you get to that final kid, those
final years, like you are cutting a few corners, especially
when they're teenagers as well. So there's a two thousand
and eight study that looked into this, conducted by Research
as a Duke University, and if you want to check
out this research paper, it's titled the Games Parents and
Adolescents Play. And what they found was that eldest and
(07:29):
older siblings are actually raised in a more strict environment,
like they're penalized more sometimes they're used as an example,
but it also does seem that our parents get softer
with age as a result. Youngest children they kind of sense,
they know that they can get away with much more
than their eldest or older brothers, siblings, sisters, so they're
(07:51):
on average more likely to engage in risky behaviors. Research
from the University of Birmingham and the University of Reading.
I don't know if it's reading or reading. I'm going
to say reading. They also found that youngest children in
the families they are also more likely to be self employed.
They are nearly fifty percent more likely to take the
(08:11):
risk of going into business for themselves, so they're risk takers,
the entrepreneurial and this findings were like, this was a
large study. It had almost seventeen thousand children who they
surveyed them in first in nineteen seventy and then again
at thirty eight years old. And some of them are younger,
some of them are middle some of them were only children,
(08:32):
and the youngest child they were the ones who were
most likely to take risks. I think that's a really
cool trait about younger siblings. And I will say the
people who I know in my life who have taken
the leap of faith to start their own business, to
take the road less traveled, Like the majority of them
are younger siblings. And I think about like my office space,
(08:55):
so I work in an office space that I kind
of rent out with a couple of friends in Sydney,
and most of them like are running their own businesses.
They're running their own side hustles and like they're doing
that full time or their self like they're self contracted,
like they do contract jobs. And every single one of
them that's in that office is a youngest child. So
(09:18):
speaking of entrepreneurial spirit, like, that's the evidence I kind
of see in my own life, which is obviously speculation,
but I think it's interesting. I will say, please, by
no means take any of these observations as rules, Like
if you are a youngest child and you're not entrepreneurial,
it doesn't mean that there's something wrong with you. Or
if you're listening to this and you're not a youngest child,
(09:39):
like and you want to start a business, like, by
no means, does this mean that you can't Like it's
it's I think ridiculous to look at these rules and
think that they will apply to everyone, but I think
it's just an interesting pattern to recognize in society amongst
people who are just making organic choices. This really links
(10:01):
to the first big stereotype about youngest children though, that
they're rebellious, that they're more carefree. You know, the youngest
child is sometimes seen as the problem child, like they're
the ones who need to like get bailed out of
jail or whatever, because they seem to have had a
more relaxed childhood environment. And what also comes with this
relaxed environment is being spoiled. So the second big stereotype
(10:25):
for today is that youngest children are spoilt. They get
more gifts, they get more financial support, they get more praise.
There is much less research on this compared to the
previous stereotype, mainly because it's slightly hard to measure because
of what we call the social desirability bias in psychological research.
(10:46):
So if we ask parents, okay, which one of your
kids gets more gifts, which kid do you spend more
money on, etc. They obviously don't want to sound like
they're playing favorites, so they're not going to be entirely honest.
And if you ask the youngest child they're probably not
going to have noticed, right. There may be a situation
(11:07):
where when you're asking them, like they're probably over the
age of eighteen in order to participate in this research,
Like they're probably the only child left at home if
that's the case, so they don't have the comparison that
the eldest and middle children would have. And that's the
final person we might ask eldest and middle children. They
probably are also going to be biased, you know how
(11:29):
like competitive siblings can get. You know, they might be
looking at the youngest child, the youngest baby of the
family and going like, hey, I never got that, Like
I never got to buy new shoes whenever I wanted,
Like I never got to just get away with things
like that. So it's a kind of a tricky one
to think about. Like, if you find a way to
measure this, please let me know. I think it would
(11:50):
be a very interesting study. But basically, what we can
really rely on is kind of speculation, and it's speculation
that I want you to I want you to do
for yourself. So I'm going to give you a hypothetical
and you just tell me if this applies to you.
So thinking about your family Christmases, holidays, celebrations. Which child
(12:12):
got more presence, got more attention, got more time, maybe
got more financial help whatever it is like money, it
is usually the youngest. And you know what, quite frankly,
I understand, Like they're the cutest. Everyone likes the little one.
Everyone feels more protective of the youngest because they are
(12:33):
by their age less capable, less mature. So naturally it
might seem that they're being spoiled in comparison to older
siblings at the time. But when the eldest child was
also at the youngest stage, like at some point the
eldest child is going to be an only child, they
were probably also spoilt to the same degree. In fact,
I think it's actually the middle child who tends to
(12:55):
miss out the most. Also, like it's not all sunshine
and rains for the youngest. Like this pattern of behavior
of being spoilt, of maybe being a people being less
strict with them can also lead to a phenomenon being
known as infantilization. This is something that youngest children you know,
report that they experience even when they leave their childhood
(13:19):
and their teenage years, even when they become adults, they
are still treated like an infant, they are still treated
as less capable by their families because even when they're twenty,
twenty five, thirty fifty, their age may change, but the
position in the family as the youngest doesn't change. And
this can be a big source of tension for some
(13:40):
people as they get older and they try and advocate
for themselves, they try and be independent, they try and
you take charge in the family. Sometimes they are met
with resistance. So there was a large scale internet study
published in twenty twenty two that looked at over thirty
two thousand individuals and it found at this treatment is
(14:02):
infantilization actually was really really harmful and led to a
lot of resentment, but also led to a lack of confidence,
sometimes specifically amongst people who were youngest children or who
had reported experiencing experiencing it not just in childhood but
now as adults. Okay, so let's talk about one more
(14:22):
aspect or stereotype of the youngest child personality that you
may have already heard of. So we talked about how
they are risk takers, a bit rebellious, how they may
be spoilt. You've probably also heard that they're you know,
their attention seekers, they like to make waves, they like
to stir the pot, they like to put on the
dance shows to be a bit ridiculous. I personally think
(14:45):
this is also what makes them so social and really charming.
You know, the reason why this may be the case
is because the youngest child has had to battle to
be noticed. You know, yes, they may be spoilt, but
they are also sometimes the second, third, fourth, maybe even
fifth child. Everyone else has kind of already found their role,
(15:08):
you know, the family, maybe at ma's capacity. So the
youngest wants to find their space, they want to find
their part, and that can lead to what we would
call attention seeking behavior. But I think it's you know,
deeper than that. I think it's actually identity formation when
you have someone who has already set the bar, when
you have the eldest children also, just to throw this
(15:31):
stereotype even further out the window, some research actually suggests
that it's actually eldest or only children who typically want
or demand more attention because they, you know, they remember
a time when they got it all. So I don't
think that this like stereotype is entirely true. There you go,
(15:52):
we debunked some of the common misconceptions about youngest children,
but also kind of hopefully confirmed some of their wonderful traits,
which is that they're fun, they're outgoing, their entrepreneurial, their
risk takers. We are going to take a short break,
but when we return, we are going to talk about
whether being a youngest child has, you know, any impact
(16:15):
on dating choices, career choices, and how to deal with
some of the downsides of being the last born. So
stay with us. A big element of birth order theory
that I think fascinates people to no end is how
(16:37):
it can potentially influence some rather big choices and aspects
of our life, from who we choose to date, who
we choose to marry, who we choose to be friends with,
to profession even and so much more so does being
the youngest child predict much when it comes to these
large choices. Let's start by talking about relationships. The biggest
(17:01):
thing you will hear when it comes to dating choices
for youngest children is that they will only choose an
older sibling like a firstborn or an older middle child,
because they tend to appreciate the stability. They want that rock,
They want someone to calm their wildness. Maybe and for
their partner who is an eldest child or an older child.
(17:26):
They are very responsible, so they appreciate the spontaneity. They
like to be with someone who can help them see
things differently and kind of let loose. That's particularly the case.
You know, some people would suggest for youngest sons who
are heterosexual, they may be more inclined to date eldest daughters.
Now let me say this, this has absolutely been the
(17:49):
case of my own life. Like my boyfriend of almost
two years, he is a younger son. All of my
best friends who are eldest daughters are dating younger sons.
And this is why I find it so rewarding. My
boyfriend is just so chill like. He is so chill,
no drama, all fun, all outgoing, clear headed. And for
(18:14):
someone who is quite anxious, who really overthinks everything, who
is a perfectionist and I feel like I need to
be in control, he really levels me out in like
the perfect complimentary way. It's like, you know how they
say opposites attract, Like we feel the parts of the
other person's personality that they can't feel themselves. And I
(18:35):
really feel like that has been the case. And obviously
it's not just birth order theory. It's a lot of
other factors that have contributed to us being together. But
you know, like he has older sisters, so that probably
also helped. But you know, when I hear this idea
of like eldest daughter's younger sons, I'm always like, ooh,
(18:58):
I hate to say it, but it applies only children
and last borns. So only children and youngest children also
balance each other out really really well for some reason.
So I heard this really fascinating interview with this psychologist
and she was talking about why this is the case,
and she said, it really has to do with the
fact that firstborns and only children are kind of cut
(19:23):
from the same cloth. So if you're a youngest child
and you like eldest children, like that's who you kind
of end up dating. A lot of only children are
very very similar. They're very self reliant, they're expected to succeed,
and then you have the younger child who brings like
the liveliness and the creativity to the relationships. So again
(19:44):
it helps the counteracts in a really specific way. So
I think whilst you know, younger siblings are very much
risk takers, they're entrepreneurial, sometimes they also kind of fly
by the seat of their pants, kind of makes it
chaotic if two youngest siblings are dating, because someone needs
(20:05):
to be have that kind of organization or part of
their brain at the forefront, Like someone needs to be
somewhat forward thinking, somewhat responsible, And if you have like
two youngest siblings together, yeah, it can be explosive. Like
you're both risk takers, you're both outgoing, but sometimes you
need like that anchor. So that is what birth order
(20:26):
theory and position might mean for dating. Again, this is
no like, this is not a restrictive rule. If you
can find someone that you love and you care about,
like doesn't matter, doesn't matter where they were born, who
they were like, what position in the family. Like that
kind of love is rare enough. So don't listen to
this and look at your own life and say, oh
(20:47):
my god, I'm dating a youngest child and I am
a youngest child, like we should break up. No, please
don't do that. Please don't do that because of me,
because it's like it's one of many, many things. So
we've already spoken about how youngest children take more risks,
so that makes them, you know, business leaders, startup founder,
is quite entrepreneurial. But really there haven't been any long
(21:10):
term studies on birth order and career prospects, which I
don't know. I think that that would be really phenomenal
for all like the somewhat controversy around birth order theory,
I feel like a study like that could really maybe
silence or prove some of the doubts. And it would
be so fascinating to do, like a longitudinal research study
(21:32):
where you interview like people at twelve, at nineteen, and
then at thirty or some point in time, and see
what careers they ended up choosing. But looking at our
profile again of youngest children, their outgoing, social rebellious, rule changes, charming,
maybe a little bit attention seeking. Even those negative qualities
(21:55):
are assets, the assets when it comes to your career.
Someone with these traits is more likely to thrive in
a profession that involves performance, leadership, persuasion, risk taking, so
things like entertainment sales, being a startup founder, investment banking,
and investigative journalist. A lobbyist like someone who really pushes bounds,
(22:20):
someone who isn't afraid to be, you know, perhaps a
little bit more out there than your average Joe. I
think about my youngest sister as an example of this
all the time, Like she is so creative, but she
also thinks and dreams so much bigger than me. You know,
I am very overly cautious. My middle sister is just
(22:41):
like the chillest person ever. Like she's an athlete, so
she's very focused, but she's also just like, yeah, whatever,
I'm going to go with the flow. Whatever happens will happen.
My little sister, though, is like I Am going to
conquer the world. And I'm always the one who's like,
oh my god, but have you considered this, like this
could go wrong? Like have you considered this like this
could this could be a problem, Like what are you
(23:01):
gonna do about that? And she's kind of like, Okay,
I'll deal with it. Like she really has that vibe
of like it's gonna work out for me, and it's
something I really really love about her. The youngest child
definitely has their you know, with all their strengths, there's
also things they struggle with in relation to like the
family dynamic, and we've talked about them a little bit already,
(23:24):
but one we haven't spoken about is like a sense
of competition and feeling left out by their other siblings.
So especially when you're a child, like you forever want
to be part of the big kids games and the
big kids' activities, but you know, you're just a little
the little annoying one. You're the one that's like going
(23:46):
to ruin it. You're like not quite at the level
that your oldest siblings want you to be at. And
it can mean that you feel, you know, quite excluded
and quite like almost in competition with yourself to get
an invite to this like exclusive childhood party. I think
(24:06):
they sometimes feel looked down upon. You can feel really
compared to your older sibling or overshadowed, not because you're
less capable, just because you've simply had less time. Like
having older siblings is like having a moving marker ahead
of you that is impossible to reach, Like even if
(24:27):
you do somehow reach it, like there's always going to
be you know, you're always going to be looking back
and seeing what the elder sibling is doing, and there
is a sense of competition, like they were the first
one to graduate high school. They may have been the
first one to go to university, the first one to
do all of these things that you can only just
do after them, and if you are perhaps not as
(24:49):
intelligent or academically inclined as they are, can feel like
your parents or your aunts or your uncles or people
are looking at you and being like, oh, like you're there.
How come you're not operating at their level. I have
found though, that actually this tends to switch up the
older we get, so the sense of competition in comparison
(25:13):
kind of goes away. And I was talking to my
friend Steph about this and how she has an older sister,
and her older sister was like, well, now I compare
myself to you, like you are doing such cool things,
and as I'm like approaching thirty, like I kind of
want your life. And I was like, huh, that's very
very interesting that you spend your whole childhood wanting to
(25:33):
be like your older siblings, and then you know your
elder sibling looks back and is like, I just want
to be where you are, Like I'm so nostalgic, but
also so impressed by you. Final point, and this was
wonderfully described by an article from the Therapeutic Center for
Anxiety and Trauma, and it's the youngest children struggle with
(25:55):
just getting whatever's leftover. And I don't just mean food
or resources or even hand me downs. I'm talking about
roles in the family. The longer a family has been together,
the more rigid every person's role has become. So by
the time the younger sibling arrives, the family has kind
(26:17):
of established a pretty consistent and fixed dynamic that more
or less works for everyone involved. So younger siblings may
end up adopting whatever role the family still needs and
still lacks. So if everyone in the family is happy,
go lucky, and really go with the flow, the younger
(26:37):
sibling might fill that gap and become the responsible one.
Or another scenario, you know, everyone in the family is
arguing and fighting and there's a lot of tension. The
younger sibling may feel inclined to break the tension by
being the joker or by redirecting the focus of the
family onto themselves. Also an interesting phenomena that I think
(27:00):
we're noticing maybe more these days is youngest children who
have a significant age gap between themselves and the next
child up. So people who you know, their parents were
kind of done having kids pretty early and then they
were surprised by another baby, or they decided you know
a little bit later like, Okay, it doesn't feel like
(27:21):
our family is quite complete, like it does, feels like
we're missing someone, And they choose to have a child
much much later on, and in that case, like the
youngest child can take on the personality of an only
child because it you know, I've heard of age gaps
of like fifteen twenty years at times like that. That's
(27:42):
possible these days. So with all of that in mind,
we can see that being the youngest is quite a
complex experience. How do we overcome some of the challenges.
How do we embrace the strengths as well as the difficulties.
I think talking about the first point that I kind
of made way up the top of this episode, which
was infantialization, being treated like you're incapable or like you
(28:07):
are a child even when you become an adult, I
think what really needs to happen is at some point
you have to make a very forceful assertion of your independence.
And whether that is through having a conversation with your
family or moving somewhere like far away, or doing something
that really says like I'm my own person. Most youngest
(28:30):
children will find that at some point they need to
address this ongoing sense in their family that they need
to be protected, they need to be taken care of.
It is it is actually totally okay to say to
your family, hey, you got me wrong, Like, yep, I
understand that that is the personality or the person that
(28:50):
you thought I was. I'm not that person anymore, and
this is who I am. I'm someone who is independent.
I am someone who is adventurous and who can take
care of myself. I want you to I want you
to treat me that way, Like that's actually totally totally okay.
I think also sometimes there is a point of separation
(29:11):
that is needed, a separation between the parents or even
your siblings, whether it's through solo traveling, whether it is
through moving away, whether it is just through spending a
little bit less time with them. A lot of youngest
children that I've spoken to or that I've heard speak
about this in interviews have been like that was the
real thing that helped me break out of like the
(29:32):
stereotype that my own family was kind of perpetrating. The
next big thing that I think we need to address
is this sense of competition and comparison wooft. That's a
hard one and it's not like it's comparison with a
random stranger on the internet. Like you can't really say
to yourself, oh, there's gaps in that narrative, because the
chances are is that you know what's happening with your
(29:54):
eldest and older siblings. That's what makes the comparison sting
even more is that they are such a close counterpart
to you. What I say to this is this. What
I say to this is this. This is what I
want to say about it. Like I said, it can
feel like there is this constant, constant marker like ahead
of you that you can never catch up to because
(30:15):
of your age. I want you to really really sit
and reflect on what it is you're chasing and what
is this end goal that you're working towards, because when
you really start to think about it, what you're really
chasing is someone else's journey. But also it's like this
race to an imaginary finish line, and the imagin finish
(30:37):
line is like the end of your life. So it's
okay to take things a little bit slower and just
remember that, like, it's not about timelines, it's not about
what other people are doing. This is really like all
you have, like your journey and your life is all
you have, and you are totally entitled to figure it
out as you go along, to take your time to
(30:58):
do things that are different regardless of you. Know, if
your whole family is very academic and you decide you
want to go do something else, like, that's okay. If
your whole family are creatives and you've decided you want
to be an accountant, like, that's also okay. You're allowed
to assert your own preferences for your life and follow
them deeply and commit to them deeply. Even if there
(31:20):
is this person ahead of you who you think that
you should be like, like, they're doing that's their journey,
that's their experience. Don't let their experience overshadow the one
that you want to have as well. My final reflection
is that you know, youngest children face a lot of
unique challenges. They also have a lot of gifts. How
(31:41):
can you use that to your advantage? What were the
positives that you heard in this episode that you can say, wow, like,
I have this ability more than some other people that
I would know to be someone who sees risk differently,
Be someone who is okay with challenging the rules, Be
someone who thinks outside the box, who is outgoing, Like
(32:02):
those are huge advantages. Take those advantages and deal with them.
Whatever it is you wish, Like that is you, you
have this beautiful personality. You are probably a wonderful person. Honestly,
I have such a soft spot for youngest children, So
let's just yeah, I just think they're amazing, Like they're
some of my favorite people to be friends with, and
(32:24):
I love them very very much. So if you're a
youngest child, yeah, big claps for you. I think you're
I probably would really get along with you. That's what
history has told me. And I want to know if
this resonates with you. So this is kind of like
my own research, like this is this accurate looking at
your own life? Do you find yourself reflected in this analysis?
(32:49):
Or do you think you're someone who is very very different?
And if you are, if you think you're someone who's
very very different, I want to hear from you just
as much as the people who say this is really
spot on for me, because you know, I'm constantly questioning
this theory as well, and I want to know anecdotally,
like whether it applies. So I'd love to hear from
you if there's anything else that you think stands out
(33:10):
with you and your youngest child friends, let me know
that as well. And I hope you just enjoyed this episode.
I hope you learned something. Make sure to leave a
five star review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, wherever you are listening,
drop a comment down below if you're a youngest child
and what you have learned from this episode or what
resonates with you, and we'll be back next week with
(33:31):
another episode. Until then, stay safe, stay kind, be gentle
to yourself, and we will talk soon.
Host
Jemma Sbeghen
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