June 6, 2024 • 56 mins
This week Scott is joined by author and neuroscientist, Dr. James Doty. Scott and James discuss whether there is any science behind the law of attraction, the importance of "value tagging", and the neuroscience behind manifestation.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
The narrative of the difference between what you think you
want and what you actually need, and a reflection on
that and in some ways that relates to what you're
already manifesting. Then the other is to understand that the
universe doesn't give a fuck about you.
Speaker 2 (00:24):
In this episode of the Psychology Podcast, I had a
great chat with doctor James Dottie about his most recent book,
Mind and Magic, the Neuroscience of manifestation and how it
changes everything. In this discussion, we discussed the real secret,
which is that the universe doesn't actually give a fuck
about us, and we learn that if we want to
live a rich, meaningful and prosperous life, we do not
(00:46):
have to appease any power beyond ourselves. We also discuss
whether there's any science behind the wall of attraction, the
importance of value tagging, and the neuroscience of manifestation. This
was an elucidating and fun chat and I hope it
helps you reach your goals and dreams in a science
backed way. So, without further ado, I bring you doctor
(01:09):
James Dottie. Hey Jim, thanks for coming back in the Psychology.
Thanks for being on the Psychology Podcast.
Speaker 1 (01:15):
You forgot you were on my podcast A little loon.
Speaker 2 (01:18):
I remember that.
Speaker 1 (01:19):
I remember that. I'm glad your memories at least last
a few months or so.
Speaker 2 (01:26):
Well, I enjoy chatting with you, and so I'm glad
to finally have you on my show. And wow, what
a topic. What a topic? Oo, Mama, Well, I can't
you know, I can't tell you a number of people
I've met in the sort of spirituality space who say
things like it was meant to be that we met.
(01:48):
I knew that someone like you would enter my life,
you know, like and I and I tend to roll
my eyes at that because I think, like, well, isn't
there an assumption there that the world revolves on you?
I mean, isn't there kind of be a well assumption
there that like my whole purpose of existing is so
that I could come into your life.
Speaker 1 (02:10):
Yeah, exactly. Well, you know, it's even interesting if you
look at sort of the Earth in the galaxy in
the universe, we're like the smallest, smallest speck and you know,
and but you're right when people say these things, I
have a tendency to do the same. Now that being
(02:31):
said delusion and makes us feel comfortable.
Speaker 2 (02:36):
Well, your book's not about delusion, though it's about actually
taking steps, yeah, I mean really at its base. I
read the whole book and I was like, this could
have been a book framed in many ways. This could
have been a book on the science of goal attainment,
you know what I mean. Like it's like, you know,
(02:56):
it's obviously sexy the way you framed it. It's sexy.
I mean, it's sexier the way you framed it that
you know, the neuroscience. Of course, these days, these days,
if you want to really be sexy, you have to
say that it's it's grounded in neuros, like like there's
nothing that's not grounded in neuroscience in our you know,
but like this, this one, this one, I told you
this one's grounded in neuroscience.
Speaker 1 (03:19):
Well you just look at the popularity of neuroscience podcasts
and everybody's interested in neuroscience. But you're absolutely correct, they're
all all different ways. This could have been entitled although
one of the things that's always interested me is is
sort of manifestation. But how it I think was really
(03:41):
distorted with this book. The Secret, Yeah, which is sort
of a gospel of I want.
Speaker 2 (03:48):
For sure, I always get at least one student every
semester in my class raising their hands saying, Scott, are
you going to talk about the secret this semester?
Speaker 1 (03:55):
Well, you know, this goes back to the law of attractions,
the other interesting term that's used when people talk about
that as well. But you know, the reality is that
on some level it is all in your mind. But
as you know, with a number of people in the
(04:16):
wellness space, they take a little bit of knowledge and
combine that with woo woo and pseudoscience and then they
come up with a powerful narrative to sell.
Speaker 2 (04:28):
Well, let's let's dive into you and your work, and
we could focus on all the charlatans, but let's focus
on this, this masterpiece you've written here, another masterpiece from
doctor Jim.
Speaker 1 (04:43):
Oh, that's that's kind of you.
Speaker 2 (04:45):
Yeah, yeah, well the last come on, let's be honest.
You've had some really best selling books. The opening of
the whole book is this could quite possibly go down
in history. Is one of my favorite openings to any book.
Is first of all, first I want to say that
the intro or chapter one, it's called what's the Real Secret?
And then the first sentence is the universe doesn't give
(05:09):
a fuck about you.
Speaker 1 (05:12):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (05:13):
Now, now, don't you think that's going to piss off something.
I mean, if you were just trying to sell books,
maybe you wouldn't say that.
Speaker 1 (05:19):
No, I'm not just trying to sell books, but I
want to suddenly sort of grab people's attention because there
is this whole framing by a subset of people in
the manifestation space or who have interest in that area,
who go, well, I feel the universe is doing X,
y or zuh and it's complete bs. You know, I
(05:43):
was talking to John Hamm and he said, at best,
the the universe not only doesn't give a fuck, it's
at best it's just random, right, And it is. Now.
You can get in all sorts of more subtle debates
about free will and some of these other things, but
the reality is, as I mentioned in the book, the
(06:05):
universe has no fucks to give.
Speaker 2 (06:08):
It does seem to be the case. Well, the the
word manifestation, I think we need to really define it. So, well,
what do you mean by manifesting? Does it mean if
I manifest something?
Speaker 1 (06:20):
Well, it's the ability to if you will embed in
an intention in your subconscious that at least how I
look at it into your subconscious that utilizes our various
cognitive brain networks to maximize the ability of our brain
(06:44):
to maximally make an intention manifest. Now, a lot of
people get confused because they'll put let's say, a timeline,
or they'll say it has to be exactly the way
I see it. But of course that's not the case
at all, and in fact, oftentimes what you want doesn't manifest.
(07:07):
But that gets to another interesting point, which is a
lot of people, unfortunately, especially in Western capitalist society, have
a perception of what successes or what they think they want,
but they don't understand what they need. And I think
that's part of the problem with the secret.
Speaker 2 (07:30):
Damn dropping some truths over here. Wow. Probably my favorite
pithy definition of manifestation in your book is when you
say manifestation is about cultivating a fierce belief in possibility. Now,
what is the difference between a fierce belief in possibility
(07:50):
and blind optimism or toxic positivity as they say.
Speaker 1 (07:57):
Well, I think it's utilizing knowledge that allows you to
utilize your brain, if you will, at its best, to
manifest your intention or to have what you want occur.
But that has to be tempered with understanding what you
(08:23):
need versus what you want. And what I mean by
that is, as I just mentioned earlier, a lot of
people get confused because they'll say, I want to live
in a mansion, I want to be the president of whatever,
I want to live, or drive a Ferrari, etc. Etc.
And these are VERYI oriented desires, and the problem is
(08:47):
that when you're focused in that manner, you're missing a
whole lot, and I think it also undermines your ability
to actually manifest because, as you know, the nature of
our species is such that our neurophysiology and our physiology
(09:11):
in general works best when we care, when we're compassionate,
when we're kind. That's how we evolved as a species.
And self absorption or I centered behavior actually is contrary
to that. And in fact, unfortunately, a lot of people
who are self focused actually in some ways are afraid
(09:37):
and they think that by doing these actions that they
believe will result in external affirmation is what it's all about.
And of course this is also the definition between hedonic happiness,
if you will, and udomonic happiness.
Speaker 2 (09:54):
Yeah, I love that distinction between those two different forms
of happiness. Well, yeah, you're right, I mean, you're right.
A lot of the secret kind of stuff is sold
as power money. They don't say things like try manifesting
that you'll be a better person, like no one cares
about that. No one cares about that. Manifest maest that
(10:17):
you work on yourself. Manifest How about you manifest that
you work on your goddamn self. Nobody cares about that.
Speaker 1 (10:23):
Well, And the thing is, if you did focus on that,
many things would happen. One is that your physiology works
much better, and two is you are serving others, which
ultimately gives meaning and purpose. And when you have your
physiology and both brain and peripheral physiology working at their best,
(10:49):
and that results in increase in longevity. And if you
look at how all the literature on longevity, and whether
it's the eighty five year Harvard study that Robert Waldinger
is running right now, or Bob Buttner's Blue Zones, or
the history of how we lived centuries ago, the reality
(11:11):
is that people were not so much focused on external possessions.
They were focused on deep relationships. And it's those deep
relationships or caring for others or being in community that
actually make everything work Again. The other challenge I think
is so many people get and when you're talking about manifestation,
people get focused on a goal, and they're so focused
(11:35):
on the goal everything else's secondary. And the reality, of course,
is that when you have attachment and craving, that causes suffering.
But the other aspect is that what's really happening is
the journey. It's not so much the destination. And this
is where people get confused. And I can tell you
(11:56):
for myself, growing up in a challenging environment. You know,
I had this list of goals I wanted to accomplish,
and indeed I did accomplish them, but you know, at
the top of every mountain, I was waiting for some
miracle to happen, and you know, I would have people
say congratulations, that's amazing, but it had no impact whatsoever
(12:17):
on my level of security, or nothing got rid of
my shame. And so all of the external affirmation that
people chase at the end of the day means nothing,
and it still leaves you hollow. And this is again
(12:38):
the failure of books like The Secret or sort of
the woo woo that is associated with it, where people
go just pick that goal. If you want a Ferrari,
go after that Ferrari. The problem is when you get it,
you keep thinking that everybody will say you're great, You're amazing,
that's fantastic, and that's going to have some impact on you,
(12:58):
and it doesn't.
Speaker 2 (12:59):
What's soever, Hey, Jim, you know I hear this phrase
in the in the kind of spiritual woo woo world
all the time, called vibrational energy. Can you tell me
the science behind Is there science behind that?
Speaker 1 (13:12):
Sure? Absolutely? Well? First of all, every object, inanimate or not, vibrates.
I mean, that's the nature of how atoms interact, right,
there is some vibrational energy and everything. And of course,
as you know, there's a vibration in the in the brain, right,
I mean, if you look at the different oscillations and
I'll use oscillations and vibration the same way. You know,
(13:36):
you have alpha, beta, theta, delta, and gamma waves and
they're very important to brain function. The other interesting thing
that a lot of people don't appreciate is, uh, your
you have if you want to call it, vibrational energy
from your heart itself. And as an example, there is
a direct correlation between heart rate variability and aagement of
(14:00):
our sympathetic and para sympathetic systems. And you can actually
measure the energy five or six feet away actually from
your heart itself. And this also relates to the phenomena,
and I'm sure you're aware of it. As an example,
if a group of women become roommates, oftentimes their minstrual
(14:22):
periods will align.
Speaker 2 (14:24):
I've heard about that, yeah.
Speaker 1 (14:25):
And also also if you take set a group of
metronomes that are all clicking at different beats, eventually they'll
all align. And there is a body of literature actually
that demonstrates that this vibrational energy can have a positive effect.
And I'm sure you've also been in a situation where
(14:48):
there's a person you meet and they have this sort
of radiance about them that makes you feel comfortable, calm,
and it reflects off of you, and oftentimes you align
with that. And conversely, if that you want to call
it vibration, is negative, if you will, you will pull
away from it. And so I don't think there's any
(15:11):
question there is vibrational energy. And some people have this
belief in panpsychism, where you know everything vibrates, et cetera,
et cetera. I don't have an answer for that, but
I think if you look at the science, there's clearly
vibration in us and whether it's your heart, whether it's
(15:32):
your brain, there's no question about that. And in some
ways it also goes back to our ability to change
our brains, and we do have that power. And I
think that's what people don't realize. And this is the
difference between people getting lost in sort of wishing the
universe will fix things, or keep searching for the law
(15:55):
of attraction to you know, give me what I want.
But that's not the case, of course whatsoever. It's all
within you. And this is in some ways what I
talk about also at the beginning, is people have a
belief in what they think they want, but it's far
(16:17):
different than what they need. And in some ways the
book is about reclaiming if you want to call it
your sovereigntry or self agency.
Speaker 2 (16:27):
Yes, yes, in a lot of ways, your book really
is kind of arguing against the opposite of having a
victim mindset about your life circumstances. So reading between the
lines and kind of I pick up a lot about that.
Let's talk about the neuroscience a little bit more, because
it's very interesting. The different brain networks that you identify
(16:49):
in your book are the very same brain networks that
I identify when I talk about creativity. You know, the default well,
but it's just also so happens. We have just so
many brain networks in our brain, so exactly, so it
just happens. These are the four brain networks that are
relevant for virtually anything we're doing in our conscious life.
Speaker 1 (17:10):
No, absolutely, that's that's correct.
Speaker 2 (17:12):
But let's let's talk through them. So the first is
my favorite, my favorite one, the default mode brainer and
I call it the imagination network. How is the imagination
network relevant to manifestation.
Speaker 1 (17:29):
Well, one, it's self referential and as you were saying,
you mentioned creativity, but it creates stories about ourselves and
that's wonderful. And of course it's associated with mine wondering.
So it's not, if you will, part of the what
(17:50):
we call the task positive network. So it may set
the stage for your intention, but actually to have your
intention manifest you have to engage the other networks, which,
as you know, of course, is the salience network and
(18:11):
the attention network and the executive control network. And so
in some ways, when you are actually doing the manifesting,
the default mode network is down regulated or turned off,
if you will. Of course, the problem is that it
can be hijacked by fear, worry, anxiety, which can also
(18:37):
be engaged to result in rumination. So I think that's
something to keep in mind. But at its best, it
will set the stage for you manifesting and engaging these
other networks.
Speaker 2 (18:53):
Yeah, it allows you to visualize the future image of
yourself first of all, which is very important. Argue that
it can interfere with our flow state trying to I
assume that you mean when it's kind of attached to
UH two other ruminative systems and self criticism systems. But
(19:14):
you know, in certain configuration states with other networks, I
think the default mold network is what allows us to
get into the flow state, like as you see with
those studies on rappers that they put in the FM
ry machine and jazz improvisers. I mean, their default mode
network is flowing, you know. And but so really it
really doesn't have to do with how all these networks
(19:34):
are communicating with each other. You can't just isolate one network, right, And.
Speaker 1 (19:40):
No, I think you're exactly right, you know. Obviously, this
book was not meant to be a treatise on the
UH every aspect of the brain networks. It was meant
to sort of give an overview without getting lost in
the weeds. And you know, the one advance is, uh,
(20:01):
you have to miss a lot of stuff, and you know,
have a salient poets you want to emphasize. But of
course that leaves out other aspects. And it's sort of
interesting because obviously, if you're a psychologists or a neuroscientists,
you know, you can sit there go well, Jim, you
know there was this paper back then and it didn't
you know, you you misstated this and and obviously in
(20:22):
some cases that's true. The point was to give an
overview in general how these cognitive brain networks interact with
each other.
Speaker 2 (20:32):
Yeah, yeah, no, I love that. You also love that
you separate the attention network from the central executive network.
I don't see that distinction made that much. So well done,
well done on that. You know. Yeah, this stuff is
I mean, the real, the real neuroscience of this stuff.
(20:52):
It gets really complicated. It's like neuroscientists have talked about
that the default mode network is anti correlated with the
central executive network, but I've argued that that's not quite right.
It's actually the anti correlation is with the attention network
and the default mode network. The default mode network can
be coupled with the central executive network really well when
(21:14):
you're productively daydreaming, you.
Speaker 1 (21:16):
Know, And that is correct. Yeah, no, no, I think
that's right. I think though that you know, the key
is because you can't make manifestation happen without the executive
control network, right, and you know sort of that's the
top down action, or.
Speaker 2 (21:36):
Else you're just indulging, right, you know, got garbage and
odengine's work.
Speaker 1 (21:40):
You're just indulging, which many of us do to be fun. Indulging, Yes, yes,
well until it's not.
Speaker 2 (21:54):
Until you really want to make a change.
Speaker 1 (21:55):
Yeah, yeah, yes, yes, you know. I think though. One
of the keys though, is this idea of actually actively
embedding your desires, if you will, or your intention into
your subconscious And I think a lot of people don't
understand that because you know, all of us fundamentally are
(22:18):
always manifesting. That's how we live a life. You know,
we see something we want or something to accomplish, but
you know, most of us do it inefficiently. I think
the point of the book is to outline a method
one so you understand the power that you have to
change your internal world and then a set of steps
(22:41):
to maximize the possibility of actually having these things happen.
And that's I think quite a bit different than saying, well,
you know, just believe you want to drive a Ferrari
or live in a mansion, and you know, write it
down and think about it and it'll allally happen. And
the other aspect of this, which is in some ways
(23:03):
of paradox to the first sentence of the book, which
is Universe has to give a fuck about you. But
I think the statement God only helps those who help
themselves means that you know, you have to work at this.
You know, this isn't a sort of one and done
or you're just okay, I'm thinking about it, therefore it's
going to happen. Yeah. No.
Speaker 2 (23:24):
I mean there's some tough love in this book too
that a lot of the woo woo crowd won't won't appreciate.
Speaker 1 (23:31):
I think part of the problem with the issue is
that actually part of the woo woo crowd or pseudoscience crowd,
many of them actually want knowledge. It's just that they've
been so inundated with pseudoscience. And as you know, they're
different quote unquote influencers who love to mix woo wuo
(23:55):
and pseudoscience with science to paint a narrative that benefits
them or makes them appear to be very knowledgeable or
have some power. My agenda is just trying to understand
in a way how this works, hopefully in an objective way,
(24:16):
although of course all of us have some degree of
biases and present in a manner which people understand and
it can be used to help them, so I love.
But that being said, of course there's a group of
people who can't help themselves to you know, getting crystals
(24:36):
and doing these other things.
Speaker 2 (24:38):
Yeah, yeah, I mean, isn't it possible to be manifesting
things that you don't know you're manifesting and that you
don't really want to be manifested because of just the
way you are?
Speaker 1 (24:54):
Well in some ways, now you're getting into a sort
of a different aspect of this, because this is so
of the way we live our lives. Right As an example,
you know, there are many people who have had childhood
trauma and they carry that baggage with them, and then
that baggage influences every decision they make, every relationship they have.
(25:20):
Oftentimes it makes the choice about their profession and it
can be extraordinarily detrimental. And this is why you see
people who choose the same as an example, abusive partner
or a partner who abuses drugs and alcohol, and they said, think,
why does this keep happening to me? Because you have
(25:42):
deeply embedded what has given you security in the past
or during your if you will, bonding or attachment period.
Obviously it was maladjusted and you carry this stuff. So
you know, part of this is to have some insight
(26:03):
and self awareness about these other aspects that are drivers
of our behavior.
Speaker 2 (26:11):
Yeah, it's so important to have that kind of self
awareness to kind of to just to make sure we're
manifesting what we want to actually be manifesting, because you
do talk in your book about how we can be
unintentionally manifesting things. So that's why I brought it up.
Speaker 1 (26:23):
Sure, yeah, no, I think that's exactly right, and people
do that all the time.
Speaker 2 (26:29):
Yeah, So who are the filing clerk and the bloodhound
who run our subconscious.
Speaker 1 (26:36):
Well, this is getting into what we talked about a
little bit earlier about the salience network and the attention network,
you know, and I think the other aspect, just to mention,
is as you're well aware. I mean, we have, you know,
millions of data points coming in from our sensory organs
every second, and we're only able to process a minuscule
(26:59):
amount of the information. And so one is a recognition
of this. And how do you then take on a
conscious level a desire you have or something you want
to manifest, and how to embed that. And in the book,
of course, I go through a six step program, if
you will, But it's actually value tagging that and embedding
(27:20):
that into your subconscious. The bloodhound example which I used
at the book relates to your salience network, because again
I'm sure you've had the experience when you've been at
a party, if you will, and the noise is loud
and you hear your name right and you immediately turn.
(27:42):
And that's because that is your identity. It's very very
deeply embedded into your subconscious. So you respond, and if
you embed your intention, if you will, that will also happen.
As an example, there's a project I'm working on and
I was at a coffee shop a few weeks ago,
(28:03):
and I was thinking about it while I was sitting there,
and then through this noise of the coffee shop, I
heard these two people mentioning exactly what I was thinking about,
and I went over and introduced myself, and in fact,
there's a lot of commonality and sort of we hooked
up to uh work on this project together. And so
(28:23):
I had embedded that intention and it had actually sort
of scoured the external and also often the internal environment
to set the stage, if you will. And I think
this is also where synchronicity comes in, or what we
call synchronicity.
Speaker 2 (28:43):
Oh wait, what's what's synchronousy? How's that different from coincidence?
Speaker 1 (28:47):
Well, they're the same and the same. What I mean
by that is that if you're manifesting and a quote
unquote coincident occurs or an event occurs that aligns with
your intention, we call it a syncre and that's when
the if you will, the salience network and attention network
(29:10):
have done their jobs. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (29:13):
Well yeah, I feel like, you know, it's happened. What
happens to all of us. I'm not going to say
it just happens to me.
Speaker 1 (29:21):
But see, you're getting into that thing where you're you're
the most important person in the room, right what we
were talking about earlier.
Speaker 2 (29:28):
I want to make sure I don't fall prey to that.
But we're talking. Something just popped up on my social
media as we were talking. On my screen, someone put
a meme that says, don't forget you have to do
the inner work, not just eat, not just eat shrooms.
Speaker 1 (29:47):
Well, and uh, you know, I think that's very relatable.
But I think the other aspect of this is, you know,
we were talking about everyone's manifesting. I think part of
the discussion though, is to understand what you have been
manifesting and trying to understand if what you've been manifesting
(30:07):
is really good for you or not. And this gets
back to having some degree of self awareness and processing
how you have been living your life and the events
that have occurred to you. And then the other thing
is clarifying actually what you really want. And when I
talk about this, what I mean is that when we're
(30:30):
self focused and self absorbed about what we want, and
I think in some ways, most recently over the last
decade or two, it's because we've created an educational system
that every kid's a winner, right the ten kids in
a race, and the fact that you showed up for
the race, you're a winner now, and unfortunately creates a
(30:51):
sense of entitlement and a belief that you deserve this.
And it's also again very self focused I want. Unfortunately,
that separates you from others and it's not realistic. The
other thing is it's like depression in some ways. If
(31:12):
you're depressed and you actually go out and help somebody,
it actually has a very positive effect on you. In fact,
it decreases many people's depression. And the reason I bring
that up is when you look at the world through
the lens of the reality that everyone is suffering, then
it actually changes what you want into a much more
(31:36):
healthy place than sort of this self absorption aspect of it.
Speaker 2 (31:45):
Yeah, wonderful. I mean you have a whole Like you said,
you have a six point plan in your book to
help with that. I mean, we don't need to reveal everything.
We want people to buy your book. But you know,
I think this is a fair question. What is the
very first step that our listeners can take to begin
(32:05):
successfully manifesting themselves today?
Speaker 1 (32:09):
Well, I think it is one the narrative of the
difference between what you think you want and what you
actually need and reflection on that, and in some ways
that relates to what are you're already manifesting. Then the
other is to understand that the universe doesn't give a
(32:30):
fuck about you. It's irrelevant, and the only person who
gives a fuck about you can only be you. And
what people don't understand, and this relates to actually self compassion,
is so many of us have a negative dialogue going
on in our head, right, and it tells us we're
(32:52):
not worthy, we don't deserve, etc. Etc. And what that
does is one, it puts in a constant fear state,
which stimulates your sympathetic nervous system or your flight fight
or freight mode, which actually limits you're talking about creativity,
but it also I believe limits your ability to manifest
(33:14):
because you're not if you will align with those parts
of your brain that get things done. In fact, it
interferes with that. And so one is to understand that
when you have negative self talk, it's like laying down
bricks to create yourself in post prison. So this relates
(33:37):
to limited beliefs, right, because that's what stops manifestation. When
you have chronic negative self talk, that impedes your ability
actually to manifest because once you say I can't or
it's not possible, that becomes truth and as you well know,
your brain doesn't know the difference between truth or untruth.
Speaker 2 (33:58):
So true. Wow, Yeah, this idea that our thoughts create
our reality is powerful to a very large degree. It's
not a complete part, not completely part of the story,
but yeah, it's important part of the story.
Speaker 1 (34:22):
So I think though understanding the power you have within
to change your internal dialogue or the narrative that you have,
and also understanding that once you're able to be kind
to yourself, you often are not as self absorbed, and
(34:44):
you also understand everyone is suffering. And the reason I
think that becomes important is you know, many people are
more hypercritical of themselves than anybody else, right, And then
when you get in that mode, it's very isolating and
in some ways it's a chronic fear response. When you're
(35:05):
able to be kind to yourself and you shift from
this sympathetic nervous system engagement to engagement of your paar
sympathetic nervous system, you look at the world through a
different lens. And when you look at the world through
a more positive lens, it actually, I believe changes what
you think now is important. And again this gets back
(35:28):
to Hadona happiness, where you're seeking pleasure, and that's what
the I generation has done, right, I mean, it's I
want a ferrari. I want to imagine. I want people
to think I'm powerful and influential, and I think that
unfortunately distracts people. And so when you're able to shift
(35:50):
over by looking through a different lens and engage in
your pair sympathetic nervous system, as you know, all of
your cognitive brain network work work much better.
Speaker 2 (36:02):
What is the alphabet of the heart?
Speaker 1 (36:07):
Now you're a friend of my other book, which is okay.
Speaker 2 (36:12):
Isn't it relevant to resonance.
Speaker 1 (36:16):
To give a little clarity to that? In my first book,
Into the Magic Shop, a Neurosurgeon's Quest to understand the
Mysteries of the Brain and the Secrets of the Heart, which,
as you mentioned earlier, I was a New York Times bestseller.
It's the bestseller in eight countries. It's in thirty six languages.
When I was talking about at the end of the
(36:39):
book and this is a memoir that includes neuroscience and
contemplative practice, I was asked to give a talk to
the incoming medical students at my medical school, and as
you know, medical school unfortunately requires an immense amount of memorization,
(37:00):
and people use mnemonics for that, and I wanted to
give the students a mnemonic that would center them in
their lives, and so I created, if you want to
call it, the Alphabet of the Heart, and it's ten letters,
and in many ways it's a summary of what I
have learned on my own journey that centers me. And
(37:23):
to be frank with you getting back to what you
were alluding to, it sets the stage for one for
me to claim my self agency, but also look at
the world through a lens of kindness. And it is
c compassion for self and others, d recognizing the dignity
(37:44):
of every person, E. Practicing equanimity, and just to mention
about equanimity. And this relates also to emotion regulation. We
have a tendency to chase things or have goals, and
we're talking about Hadona happiness. Once you reach the goal,
(38:05):
there's nothing there. And the reality is these experiences are transitory.
But conversely, when we have downtimes where things aren't working
the way we want, many people get into this belief that, oh,
this is going to last forever. I can't handle that.
This is the most horrible thing. But just like you
(38:29):
know these quote unquote positive events or goals that you've attained.
The downside is also transitory, and so having equanimity or
this evenness of temperament, or if you want to call it,
emotion regulation where you don't get lost in the extremes.
That's very very important, and it means that you appreciate
(38:50):
the positive aspects. But on reflection, you also understand that
the wisdom you've obtained, the resilience that you've had as
a human being more often relates to the down states,
and that's where you've learned things. And so in some ways,
(39:11):
actually they both have, if you will, a very positive purpose,
although nobody likes to be in the dowd state. So
f is for forgiveness. And again, people have a tendency
to attach emotion to events, and it's just our nature,
(39:33):
and that can translate attaching emotion to an individual who
you feel has wronged you, and of course the problem
with that is every time you see that person or
think of that event that activates your emotions. Now, on
some level, that's wonderful if it's like a person you
love and you think of them and you have this
warmth about you. But for many people they carry this
(39:56):
anger and hostility towards somebody, it has a very very
negative effect on their physiology. And so being able to forgive,
which is not the same as forgetting, is very important.
And I think one of the most important things, which
I talked about in the book, also is gratitude. If
(40:16):
you reflect on the reality that over fifty percent of
people in the world live on less than two dollars
and fifty cents a day, if you're listening to this podcast,
you are very very blessed. And people get lost again
in a narrative that says I don't have enough. And
(40:37):
it's interesting, no matter how much money some people get,
it's never enough. And in fact, as you know the literature,
the more you get actually doesn't make you more generous.
It makes you look through the world through a lens
of scarcity, which is very very unfortunate. So I reflect
(41:02):
on that a great deal about being thankful. And as
you probably know from my first book, you know I
lost eighty million dollars in six weeks, which had a
little bit of an impact on my life. But again,
(41:22):
and it's an interesting story, right, I went from rags
if you will. I grew up in poverty, you know,
being a neurosurgeon, being a successful entrepreneur, living in a penthouse,
having a large home in Newport Beach, having a Ferrari, Porsche,
BMW range Rover and Mercedes in my garage, flying in
private jets. I had a villain Florence. I was buying
(41:45):
an island in New Zealand. But the interesting thing was,
and of course the fascinating thing is all of these
people are saying, how great you are. Wow, look what
you've done. You have all of these things. And frankly,
when I had all of those things, I was never
more miserable in my entire life. Really, absolutely, I I
was so unhappy. And uh uh you know, imagine it's funny.
(42:10):
I used to a friend of mine owned one of
the most popular restaurants in Newport Beach. You know, it's
one of those places where there's a line a mile long,
and uh and I used to have my own table
there and I would pull up my yellow Ferrari and
park right in front, and you know, hop out and
(42:31):
I would just cut in front of the line and
I would go sit at my table. And at that time,
you could smoke cigars in the restaurants and uh. And
you know, I met innumerable women. Uh and and did
and did go through this thing of meeting all of
these women and frankly sleeping with them. But again, to me, uh,
(42:57):
it was I couldn't do it. No, I couldn't do
it anymore. It bothered me so much, unfortunately, and maybe
my conscience is a little different than most people's, but
I just couldn't do it because I would wake up
with these women and frankly, oftentimes I wouldn't even remember
their names. As soon as I would wake up, I
would want them to be gone. And you know, and
(43:20):
they and they would share their stories with you, and
because I would ask them about them, right, and you know,
it would be like either they had, you know, personal
issues related to maybe abuse, or or they would be
recently divorced and have a few children and they want
(43:40):
to marry somebody, you know, to live the good life, right,
And you know the sad thing is that well, sure,
but the problem is, you know, if you sleep with
some dude you meet after three or four hours, his
interest is not in marrying you or developing a deep relationship.
(44:00):
And for me, I felt so horrible because I was
just using these women for my own self satisfaction, and
they were very vulnerable. I just I had to stop.
I couldn't do it anymore. And so that may seem
strange or contradictory, but it just didn't work for me.
And but that related to so many things.
Speaker 2 (44:21):
Wow, well, thank you, well, thank you for sharing that
story in a way. That story makes you vulnerable in
a way because you know, a lot of academics wouldn't
admit living such a lifestyle, right, so it takes a
little bit of courage to even tell that story.
Speaker 1 (44:40):
Well, you know, in some ways though, what we're talking
about is we're talking about sort of selfish goals. Again.
When I was with this woman in the magic shop,
she taught me a meditation or mindfulness practice, but it
combined self compassion and compassion for others. But it also
a combined and manifestation technique. And I was twelve at
(45:01):
the time. So I made a list of things I wanted,
which is a Rolex watch, a mansion, a portie, a
million dollars, et cetera, et cetera. And I did manifest
every one of those things. But the problem was I
didn't have inside or self awareness at all. And that's
where I got lost and because the reality was everything
(45:23):
was self focused. It was all about me, right, and
even though I was a doctor helping people, it was
still about me. And in fact, that's the interesting aspect
of losing eighty million dollars because after I lost it
with the dot com crash and was three million dollars
(45:43):
in the hole because I had borrowed fifteen million dollars
from the bank, I went through a period of reflection
and I was saying, you know what happened here? I mean,
I had this incredible trajectory and now I'm back having
lost everything. You know, what did I do wrong? And
what I realized was again and it relates very much
(46:06):
to what we're talking about with manifesting. You know, people say,
I want, you know, the match in the car, going
out with hot women, et cetera, et cetera, And I
had all of that, yet it didn't fulfill me. And
I kept waiting for the affirmation from all these other
people to tell me how great I was, and nothing
took care of my own insecurity or shame. And so
(46:31):
during that period of reflection, I changed the narrative or
I changed my perspective, which is an important part of
how we change our brain in some ways, because I
realized it wasn't about me, and when I focused on others,
that actually changed everything. And as an example, after losing
(46:53):
all that money and going through this period, I tell
people I ended up with two best friends during that
period of time. One was the band who said, when
are you paying me? And the other was my lawyer.
Because I had to deal with a lot of issues
and I had made some arrangements to give money to
charity stock that I had in a company that I
had run, and I spoke to the lawyer and he said, look, Jim,
(47:17):
we actually did not file the paperwork and you actually
still own all of that stock, so you don't have
to give it to charity. And I reflected on this,
and here I am three million the hole. I said, no,
go ahead and give it all the charity. And so
this ended up being thirty million dollars. I set up
(47:42):
I set up health clinics around the world, blood banks,
I set up programs for the disabled. I set up
a program for adolescents affected by AIDS HIV, and I
endowed chairs at Stanford as well as at my medical
school two Lane in New Orleans. I rebuilt the library
after Hurricane Katrina, and in fact I was the guy
(48:07):
who had probably the lowest GPA ever to get into
medical school, which I was very appreciative of. The medical
school took me, and I ended up after Hurricane Katrina,
the dean had resigned and they wanted to recruit a
fellow from Harvard, but he wanted an endowed chair, so
I actually ended up endowing his chair, and so the
(48:29):
dean at Tulane is the Doughty professor actually, so it's
an interesting trajectory. But the point was that I went
from rags to riches, at least in a monetary sense,
and then when I went back to rags again, I
actually got everything. And what I mean by that is
(48:52):
I don't want to give the impression that losing thirty
million dollars my life was were in because at the
end of the day, I was a neurosurgeon, still getting
paid point nine percent more than everyone else, and you know,
so I certainly could not complain in any way about that.
But I changed my focus to be of service to
others because I realized how powerful that was. And in fact,
(49:15):
that is the point of this book, is to not
focus on yourself. I have people say, well, you say,
you know you were miserable having all this stuff. Well,
I want to be miserable for a while, if I
could only be so miserable. Yeah, yeah, exactly exactly. And
(49:36):
so you know, until you have it and realize it's
a losory, you think you want that. But I would say,
because it interferes with everything, the self absorption and what
also interferes with everybody wants to be around you and
wants something.
Speaker 2 (49:57):
Okay, so how much is in the alphabet? Does it go?
Speaker 1 (49:59):
It is Z No? No, no, it goes to L
L gratitude right, whether we're at humility, integrity, and values.
J is for justice or responsibility to the vulnerable. K
is kindness and all contained by love. That is the
alphabet of the heart.
Speaker 2 (50:21):
Well, I love the alphabet of the heart. I do.
I mean, it does seem like the alphabet of the
heart helps you manifest things that give you greater meaning
than short term, ephemeral states of happiness. Would you agree
with that? No?
Speaker 1 (50:41):
Absolutely, I think that in some ways that can guide
you along the way if you want to utilize that.
And it also, at least for me, it's part of
my own if you want to call it meditative practice,
because I wake up every morning and do a breathing
exercise to again shift me from engagement of my sympathetic
nervous system to my para sympathetic nervous system, which is
(51:04):
very much like a mindfulness or mind training practice. And
then I put in the context of looking at the
world through awe and joy, and then I H recite
that alphabet, and uh that sets my intention because as
you know, all of us get distracted and uh and
we start thinking how important we are oftentimes and it
(51:29):
sort of puts me in the right uh you know
frame of mind, uh, if you will. Uh so, Uh yeah,
I think that does. But getting back to uh the
goal of the book. Uh, you mentioned some aspects. I
think one is and this is related to what you
had said earlier about uh, you know, pursuing your goals
(51:51):
passionately if you will, uh is you have to put
the time in. And the other aspect is, uh, you
can't get lost on expectations, which again creates unhappiness. We
were talking about attachment and craving, and of course one
(52:13):
of the tenets of Buddhist practice is that's the source
of all suffering. And so when you're so focused on
quote unquote manifesting, you're going to be unhappy. You're going
to be unhappy for multiple reasons. One is of that
people who are so focused on a goal oftentimes do
(52:34):
it to the detriment of everybody around them. Again, it
becomes a very self focused behavior. And yet, as you
well know, being present and is the most important thing
because that's where all the action is right and that's
(52:55):
how you make human connection. And so yes, it's you
need to pursue your goals passionately. You need to put
the work in, but that doesn't mean not being in
the present moment. And then the other aspect is people
get lost in this idea that manifestation one should work
(53:16):
out exactly as they wish. Jeez, I want to blue
Porsche delivered on Christmas Day. It does not work that
way at all, And so oftentimes one it's not on
your timeline. As an example, I've had one of my
(53:38):
embedded intentions is to have a world Compassion Festival. Well
that's only been going on for thirteen years now. Do
I believe it will happen? Yes? But again I don't
control the clock. But I have done everything I can
to embed that intention, and things move in that direction.
(54:00):
And the other thing is oftentimes, like I was saying,
you know, I want a blue portie, it doesn't work
that way. You may get something similar, and there may
be all sorts of reasons you don't appreciate why that's
the case. So I think that's important to accept. And again,
you create an image, but you also have to release
(54:25):
that and just understand that there are other events that
impact And sometimes we don't get the thing we want
to manifest because there's good reason we don't get it right,
and there are other things at play here, and there
are other things that on a subconscious level may be
more salient or more meaningful to us, or actually a
(54:50):
better way than the way we think.
Speaker 2 (54:54):
Or yeah, better for us as well, Like sometimes the
universe has our back, even though it doesn't care about us.
Speaker 1 (54:59):
But you know what I mean, yes, exactly.
Speaker 2 (55:05):
Something is happening that that is is in your best interest,
and you'd be you'd be best served by being grateful
for it and and being a little flexible, even if
it diverts from your your pie in the sky. Visions
of Ferraris so Jim one of my favorite quotes from
your book is at the end where you say manifesting
(55:28):
is a practice of well being, for orienting harmoniously with life.
Love that I want to kind of send, send us out,
you know, in this interview with that kind of vibrational frequency.
Thanks so much for writing a science backed book that
I think almost all of us can rally around and
get behind.
Speaker 1 (55:47):
So thank you, Jim, Well, thank you for having me.
It's always a pleasure to connect with you, and so
I look forward to our further interaction, hopefully in New York.
Speaker 2 (56:00):
Me too, Me too.
Speaker 1 (56:01):
All the best in the books are okay, you too.
Take care.
The narrative of the difference between what you think you
want and what you actually need, and a reflection on
that and in some ways that relates to what you're
already manifesting. Then the other is to understand that the
universe doesn't give a fuck about you.
Speaker 2 (00:24):
In this episode of the Psychology Podcast, I had a
great chat with doctor James Dottie about his most recent book,
Mind and Magic, the Neuroscience of manifestation and how it
changes everything. In this discussion, we discussed the real secret,
which is that the universe doesn't actually give a fuck
about us, and we learn that if we want to
live a rich, meaningful and prosperous life, we do not
(00:46):
have to appease any power beyond ourselves. We also discuss
whether there's any science behind the wall of attraction, the
importance of value tagging, and the neuroscience of manifestation. This
was an elucidating and fun chat and I hope it
helps you reach your goals and dreams in a science
backed way. So, without further ado, I bring you doctor
(01:09):
James Dottie. Hey Jim, thanks for coming back in the Psychology.
Thanks for being on the Psychology Podcast.
Speaker 1 (01:15):
You forgot you were on my podcast A little loon.
Speaker 2 (01:18):
I remember that.
Speaker 1 (01:19):
I remember that. I'm glad your memories at least last
a few months or so.
Speaker 2 (01:26):
Well, I enjoy chatting with you, and so I'm glad
to finally have you on my show. And wow, what
a topic. What a topic? Oo, Mama, Well, I can't
you know, I can't tell you a number of people
I've met in the sort of spirituality space who say
things like it was meant to be that we met.
(01:48):
I knew that someone like you would enter my life,
you know, like and I and I tend to roll
my eyes at that because I think, like, well, isn't
there an assumption there that the world revolves on you?
I mean, isn't there kind of be a well assumption
there that like my whole purpose of existing is so
that I could come into your life.
Speaker 1 (02:10):
Yeah, exactly. Well, you know, it's even interesting if you
look at sort of the Earth in the galaxy in
the universe, we're like the smallest, smallest speck and you know,
and but you're right when people say these things, I
have a tendency to do the same. Now that being
(02:31):
said delusion and makes us feel comfortable.
Speaker 2 (02:36):
Well, your book's not about delusion, though it's about actually
taking steps, yeah, I mean really at its base. I
read the whole book and I was like, this could
have been a book framed in many ways. This could
have been a book on the science of goal attainment,
you know what I mean. Like it's like, you know,
(02:56):
it's obviously sexy the way you framed it. It's sexy.
I mean, it's sexier the way you framed it that
you know, the neuroscience. Of course, these days, these days,
if you want to really be sexy, you have to
say that it's it's grounded in neuros, like like there's
nothing that's not grounded in neuroscience in our you know,
but like this, this one, this one, I told you
this one's grounded in neuroscience.
Speaker 1 (03:19):
Well you just look at the popularity of neuroscience podcasts
and everybody's interested in neuroscience. But you're absolutely correct, they're
all all different ways. This could have been entitled although
one of the things that's always interested me is is
sort of manifestation. But how it I think was really
(03:41):
distorted with this book. The Secret, Yeah, which is sort
of a gospel of I want.
Speaker 2 (03:48):
For sure, I always get at least one student every
semester in my class raising their hands saying, Scott, are
you going to talk about the secret this semester?
Speaker 1 (03:55):
Well, you know, this goes back to the law of attractions,
the other interesting term that's used when people talk about
that as well. But you know, the reality is that
on some level it is all in your mind. But
as you know, with a number of people in the
(04:16):
wellness space, they take a little bit of knowledge and
combine that with woo woo and pseudoscience and then they
come up with a powerful narrative to sell.
Speaker 2 (04:28):
Well, let's let's dive into you and your work, and
we could focus on all the charlatans, but let's focus
on this, this masterpiece you've written here, another masterpiece from
doctor Jim.
Speaker 1 (04:43):
Oh, that's that's kind of you.
Speaker 2 (04:45):
Yeah, yeah, well the last come on, let's be honest.
You've had some really best selling books. The opening of
the whole book is this could quite possibly go down
in history. Is one of my favorite openings to any book.
Is first of all, first I want to say that
the intro or chapter one, it's called what's the Real Secret?
And then the first sentence is the universe doesn't give
(05:09):
a fuck about you.
Speaker 1 (05:12):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (05:13):
Now, now, don't you think that's going to piss off something.
I mean, if you were just trying to sell books,
maybe you wouldn't say that.
Speaker 1 (05:19):
No, I'm not just trying to sell books, but I
want to suddenly sort of grab people's attention because there
is this whole framing by a subset of people in
the manifestation space or who have interest in that area,
who go, well, I feel the universe is doing X,
y or zuh and it's complete bs. You know, I
(05:43):
was talking to John Hamm and he said, at best,
the the universe not only doesn't give a fuck, it's
at best it's just random, right, And it is. Now.
You can get in all sorts of more subtle debates
about free will and some of these other things, but
the reality is, as I mentioned in the book, the
(06:05):
universe has no fucks to give.
Speaker 2 (06:08):
It does seem to be the case. Well, the the
word manifestation, I think we need to really define it. So, well,
what do you mean by manifesting? Does it mean if
I manifest something?
Speaker 1 (06:20):
Well, it's the ability to if you will embed in
an intention in your subconscious that at least how I
look at it into your subconscious that utilizes our various
cognitive brain networks to maximize the ability of our brain
(06:44):
to maximally make an intention manifest. Now, a lot of
people get confused because they'll put let's say, a timeline,
or they'll say it has to be exactly the way
I see it. But of course that's not the case
at all, and in fact, oftentimes what you want doesn't manifest.
(07:07):
But that gets to another interesting point, which is a
lot of people, unfortunately, especially in Western capitalist society, have
a perception of what successes or what they think they want,
but they don't understand what they need. And I think
that's part of the problem with the secret.
Speaker 2 (07:30):
Damn dropping some truths over here. Wow. Probably my favorite
pithy definition of manifestation in your book is when you
say manifestation is about cultivating a fierce belief in possibility. Now,
what is the difference between a fierce belief in possibility
(07:50):
and blind optimism or toxic positivity as they say.
Speaker 1 (07:57):
Well, I think it's utilizing knowledge that allows you to
utilize your brain, if you will, at its best, to
manifest your intention or to have what you want occur.
But that has to be tempered with understanding what you
(08:23):
need versus what you want. And what I mean by
that is, as I just mentioned earlier, a lot of
people get confused because they'll say, I want to live
in a mansion, I want to be the president of whatever,
I want to live, or drive a Ferrari, etc. Etc.
And these are VERYI oriented desires, and the problem is
(08:47):
that when you're focused in that manner, you're missing a
whole lot, and I think it also undermines your ability
to actually manifest because, as you know, the nature of
our species is such that our neurophysiology and our physiology
(09:11):
in general works best when we care, when we're compassionate,
when we're kind. That's how we evolved as a species.
And self absorption or I centered behavior actually is contrary
to that. And in fact, unfortunately, a lot of people
who are self focused actually in some ways are afraid
(09:37):
and they think that by doing these actions that they
believe will result in external affirmation is what it's all about.
And of course this is also the definition between hedonic happiness,
if you will, and udomonic happiness.
Speaker 2 (09:54):
Yeah, I love that distinction between those two different forms
of happiness. Well, yeah, you're right, I mean, you're right.
A lot of the secret kind of stuff is sold
as power money. They don't say things like try manifesting
that you'll be a better person, like no one cares
about that. No one cares about that. Manifest maest that
(10:17):
you work on yourself. Manifest How about you manifest that
you work on your goddamn self. Nobody cares about that.
Speaker 1 (10:23):
Well, And the thing is, if you did focus on that,
many things would happen. One is that your physiology works
much better, and two is you are serving others, which
ultimately gives meaning and purpose. And when you have your
physiology and both brain and peripheral physiology working at their best,
(10:49):
and that results in increase in longevity. And if you
look at how all the literature on longevity, and whether
it's the eighty five year Harvard study that Robert Waldinger
is running right now, or Bob Buttner's Blue Zones, or
the history of how we lived centuries ago, the reality
(11:11):
is that people were not so much focused on external possessions.
They were focused on deep relationships. And it's those deep
relationships or caring for others or being in community that
actually make everything work Again. The other challenge I think
is so many people get and when you're talking about manifestation,
people get focused on a goal, and they're so focused
(11:35):
on the goal everything else's secondary. And the reality, of course,
is that when you have attachment and craving, that causes suffering.
But the other aspect is that what's really happening is
the journey. It's not so much the destination. And this
is where people get confused. And I can tell you
(11:56):
for myself, growing up in a challenging environment. You know,
I had this list of goals I wanted to accomplish,
and indeed I did accomplish them, but you know, at
the top of every mountain, I was waiting for some
miracle to happen, and you know, I would have people
say congratulations, that's amazing, but it had no impact whatsoever
(12:17):
on my level of security, or nothing got rid of
my shame. And so all of the external affirmation that
people chase at the end of the day means nothing,
and it still leaves you hollow. And this is again
(12:38):
the failure of books like The Secret or sort of
the woo woo that is associated with it, where people
go just pick that goal. If you want a Ferrari,
go after that Ferrari. The problem is when you get it,
you keep thinking that everybody will say you're great, You're amazing,
that's fantastic, and that's going to have some impact on you,
(12:58):
and it doesn't.
Speaker 2 (12:59):
What's soever, Hey, Jim, you know I hear this phrase
in the in the kind of spiritual woo woo world
all the time, called vibrational energy. Can you tell me
the science behind Is there science behind that?
Speaker 1 (13:12):
Sure? Absolutely? Well? First of all, every object, inanimate or not, vibrates.
I mean, that's the nature of how atoms interact, right,
there is some vibrational energy and everything. And of course,
as you know, there's a vibration in the in the brain, right,
I mean, if you look at the different oscillations and
I'll use oscillations and vibration the same way. You know,
(13:36):
you have alpha, beta, theta, delta, and gamma waves and
they're very important to brain function. The other interesting thing
that a lot of people don't appreciate is, uh, your
you have if you want to call it, vibrational energy
from your heart itself. And as an example, there is
a direct correlation between heart rate variability and aagement of
(14:00):
our sympathetic and para sympathetic systems. And you can actually
measure the energy five or six feet away actually from
your heart itself. And this also relates to the phenomena,
and I'm sure you're aware of it. As an example,
if a group of women become roommates, oftentimes their minstrual
(14:22):
periods will align.
Speaker 2 (14:24):
I've heard about that, yeah.
Speaker 1 (14:25):
And also also if you take set a group of
metronomes that are all clicking at different beats, eventually they'll
all align. And there is a body of literature actually
that demonstrates that this vibrational energy can have a positive effect.
And I'm sure you've also been in a situation where
(14:48):
there's a person you meet and they have this sort
of radiance about them that makes you feel comfortable, calm,
and it reflects off of you, and oftentimes you align
with that. And conversely, if that you want to call
it vibration, is negative, if you will, you will pull
away from it. And so I don't think there's any
(15:11):
question there is vibrational energy. And some people have this
belief in panpsychism, where you know everything vibrates, et cetera,
et cetera. I don't have an answer for that, but
I think if you look at the science, there's clearly
vibration in us and whether it's your heart, whether it's
(15:32):
your brain, there's no question about that. And in some
ways it also goes back to our ability to change
our brains, and we do have that power. And I
think that's what people don't realize. And this is the
difference between people getting lost in sort of wishing the
universe will fix things, or keep searching for the law
(15:55):
of attraction to you know, give me what I want.
But that's not the case, of course whatsoever. It's all
within you. And this is in some ways what I
talk about also at the beginning, is people have a
belief in what they think they want, but it's far
(16:17):
different than what they need. And in some ways the
book is about reclaiming if you want to call it
your sovereigntry or self agency.
Speaker 2 (16:27):
Yes, yes, in a lot of ways, your book really
is kind of arguing against the opposite of having a
victim mindset about your life circumstances. So reading between the
lines and kind of I pick up a lot about that.
Let's talk about the neuroscience a little bit more, because
it's very interesting. The different brain networks that you identify
(16:49):
in your book are the very same brain networks that
I identify when I talk about creativity. You know, the default well,
but it's just also so happens. We have just so
many brain networks in our brain, so exactly, so it
just happens. These are the four brain networks that are
relevant for virtually anything we're doing in our conscious life.
Speaker 1 (17:10):
No, absolutely, that's that's correct.
Speaker 2 (17:12):
But let's let's talk through them. So the first is
my favorite, my favorite one, the default mode brainer and
I call it the imagination network. How is the imagination
network relevant to manifestation.
Speaker 1 (17:29):
Well, one, it's self referential and as you were saying,
you mentioned creativity, but it creates stories about ourselves and
that's wonderful. And of course it's associated with mine wondering.
So it's not, if you will, part of the what
(17:50):
we call the task positive network. So it may set
the stage for your intention, but actually to have your
intention manifest you have to engage the other networks, which,
as you know, of course, is the salience network and
(18:11):
the attention network and the executive control network. And so
in some ways, when you are actually doing the manifesting,
the default mode network is down regulated or turned off,
if you will. Of course, the problem is that it
can be hijacked by fear, worry, anxiety, which can also
(18:37):
be engaged to result in rumination. So I think that's
something to keep in mind. But at its best, it
will set the stage for you manifesting and engaging these
other networks.
Speaker 2 (18:53):
Yeah, it allows you to visualize the future image of
yourself first of all, which is very important. Argue that
it can interfere with our flow state trying to I
assume that you mean when it's kind of attached to
UH two other ruminative systems and self criticism systems. But
(19:14):
you know, in certain configuration states with other networks, I
think the default mold network is what allows us to
get into the flow state, like as you see with
those studies on rappers that they put in the FM
ry machine and jazz improvisers. I mean, their default mode
network is flowing, you know. And but so really it
really doesn't have to do with how all these networks
(19:34):
are communicating with each other. You can't just isolate one network, right, And.
Speaker 1 (19:40):
No, I think you're exactly right, you know. Obviously, this
book was not meant to be a treatise on the
UH every aspect of the brain networks. It was meant
to sort of give an overview without getting lost in
the weeds. And you know, the one advance is, uh,
(20:01):
you have to miss a lot of stuff, and you know,
have a salient poets you want to emphasize. But of
course that leaves out other aspects. And it's sort of
interesting because obviously, if you're a psychologists or a neuroscientists,
you know, you can sit there go well, Jim, you
know there was this paper back then and it didn't
you know, you you misstated this and and obviously in
(20:22):
some cases that's true. The point was to give an
overview in general how these cognitive brain networks interact with
each other.
Speaker 2 (20:32):
Yeah, yeah, no, I love that. You also love that
you separate the attention network from the central executive network.
I don't see that distinction made that much. So well done,
well done on that. You know. Yeah, this stuff is
I mean, the real, the real neuroscience of this stuff.
(20:52):
It gets really complicated. It's like neuroscientists have talked about
that the default mode network is anti correlated with the
central executive network, but I've argued that that's not quite right.
It's actually the anti correlation is with the attention network
and the default mode network. The default mode network can
be coupled with the central executive network really well when
(21:14):
you're productively daydreaming, you.
Speaker 1 (21:16):
Know, And that is correct. Yeah, no, no, I think
that's right. I think though that you know, the key
is because you can't make manifestation happen without the executive
control network, right, and you know sort of that's the
top down action, or.
Speaker 2 (21:36):
Else you're just indulging, right, you know, got garbage and
odengine's work.
Speaker 1 (21:40):
You're just indulging, which many of us do to be fun. Indulging, Yes, yes,
well until it's not.
Speaker 2 (21:54):
Until you really want to make a change.
Speaker 1 (21:55):
Yeah, yeah, yes, yes, you know. I think though. One
of the keys though, is this idea of actually actively
embedding your desires, if you will, or your intention into
your subconscious And I think a lot of people don't
understand that because you know, all of us fundamentally are
(22:18):
always manifesting. That's how we live a life. You know,
we see something we want or something to accomplish, but
you know, most of us do it inefficiently. I think
the point of the book is to outline a method
one so you understand the power that you have to
change your internal world and then a set of steps
(22:41):
to maximize the possibility of actually having these things happen.
And that's I think quite a bit different than saying, well,
you know, just believe you want to drive a Ferrari
or live in a mansion, and you know, write it
down and think about it and it'll allally happen. And
the other aspect of this, which is in some ways
(23:03):
of paradox to the first sentence of the book, which
is Universe has to give a fuck about you. But
I think the statement God only helps those who help
themselves means that you know, you have to work at this.
You know, this isn't a sort of one and done
or you're just okay, I'm thinking about it, therefore it's
going to happen. Yeah. No.
Speaker 2 (23:24):
I mean there's some tough love in this book too
that a lot of the woo woo crowd won't won't appreciate.
Speaker 1 (23:31):
I think part of the problem with the issue is
that actually part of the woo woo crowd or pseudoscience crowd,
many of them actually want knowledge. It's just that they've
been so inundated with pseudoscience. And as you know, they're
different quote unquote influencers who love to mix woo wuo
(23:55):
and pseudoscience with science to paint a narrative that benefits
them or makes them appear to be very knowledgeable or
have some power. My agenda is just trying to understand
in a way how this works, hopefully in an objective way,
(24:16):
although of course all of us have some degree of
biases and present in a manner which people understand and
it can be used to help them, so I love.
But that being said, of course there's a group of
people who can't help themselves to you know, getting crystals
(24:36):
and doing these other things.
Speaker 2 (24:38):
Yeah, yeah, I mean, isn't it possible to be manifesting
things that you don't know you're manifesting and that you
don't really want to be manifested because of just the
way you are?
Speaker 1 (24:54):
Well in some ways, now you're getting into a sort
of a different aspect of this, because this is so
of the way we live our lives. Right As an example,
you know, there are many people who have had childhood
trauma and they carry that baggage with them, and then
that baggage influences every decision they make, every relationship they have.
(25:20):
Oftentimes it makes the choice about their profession and it
can be extraordinarily detrimental. And this is why you see
people who choose the same as an example, abusive partner
or a partner who abuses drugs and alcohol, and they said, think,
why does this keep happening to me? Because you have
(25:42):
deeply embedded what has given you security in the past
or during your if you will, bonding or attachment period.
Obviously it was maladjusted and you carry this stuff. So
you know, part of this is to have some insight
(26:03):
and self awareness about these other aspects that are drivers
of our behavior.
Speaker 2 (26:11):
Yeah, it's so important to have that kind of self
awareness to kind of to just to make sure we're
manifesting what we want to actually be manifesting, because you
do talk in your book about how we can be
unintentionally manifesting things. So that's why I brought it up.
Speaker 1 (26:23):
Sure, yeah, no, I think that's exactly right, and people
do that all the time.
Speaker 2 (26:29):
Yeah, So who are the filing clerk and the bloodhound
who run our subconscious.
Speaker 1 (26:36):
Well, this is getting into what we talked about a
little bit earlier about the salience network and the attention network,
you know, and I think the other aspect, just to mention,
is as you're well aware. I mean, we have, you know,
millions of data points coming in from our sensory organs
every second, and we're only able to process a minuscule
(26:59):
amount of the information. And so one is a recognition
of this. And how do you then take on a
conscious level a desire you have or something you want
to manifest, and how to embed that. And in the book,
of course, I go through a six step program, if
you will, But it's actually value tagging that and embedding
(27:20):
that into your subconscious. The bloodhound example which I used
at the book relates to your salience network, because again
I'm sure you've had the experience when you've been at
a party, if you will, and the noise is loud
and you hear your name right and you immediately turn.
(27:42):
And that's because that is your identity. It's very very
deeply embedded into your subconscious. So you respond, and if
you embed your intention, if you will, that will also happen.
As an example, there's a project I'm working on and
I was at a coffee shop a few weeks ago,
(28:03):
and I was thinking about it while I was sitting there,
and then through this noise of the coffee shop, I
heard these two people mentioning exactly what I was thinking about,
and I went over and introduced myself, and in fact,
there's a lot of commonality and sort of we hooked
up to uh work on this project together. And so
(28:23):
I had embedded that intention and it had actually sort
of scoured the external and also often the internal environment
to set the stage, if you will. And I think
this is also where synchronicity comes in, or what we
call synchronicity.
Speaker 2 (28:43):
Oh wait, what's what's synchronousy? How's that different from coincidence?
Speaker 1 (28:47):
Well, they're the same and the same. What I mean
by that is that if you're manifesting and a quote
unquote coincident occurs or an event occurs that aligns with
your intention, we call it a syncre and that's when
the if you will, the salience network and attention network
(29:10):
have done their jobs. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (29:13):
Well yeah, I feel like, you know, it's happened. What
happens to all of us. I'm not going to say
it just happens to me.
Speaker 1 (29:21):
But see, you're getting into that thing where you're you're
the most important person in the room, right what we
were talking about earlier.
Speaker 2 (29:28):
I want to make sure I don't fall prey to that.
But we're talking. Something just popped up on my social
media as we were talking. On my screen, someone put
a meme that says, don't forget you have to do
the inner work, not just eat, not just eat shrooms.
Speaker 1 (29:47):
Well, and uh, you know, I think that's very relatable.
But I think the other aspect of this is, you know,
we were talking about everyone's manifesting. I think part of
the discussion though, is to understand what you have been
manifesting and trying to understand if what you've been manifesting
(30:07):
is really good for you or not. And this gets
back to having some degree of self awareness and processing
how you have been living your life and the events
that have occurred to you. And then the other thing
is clarifying actually what you really want. And when I
talk about this, what I mean is that when we're
(30:30):
self focused and self absorbed about what we want, and
I think in some ways, most recently over the last
decade or two, it's because we've created an educational system
that every kid's a winner, right the ten kids in
a race, and the fact that you showed up for
the race, you're a winner now, and unfortunately creates a
(30:51):
sense of entitlement and a belief that you deserve this.
And it's also again very self focused I want. Unfortunately,
that separates you from others and it's not realistic. The
other thing is it's like depression in some ways. If
(31:12):
you're depressed and you actually go out and help somebody,
it actually has a very positive effect on you. In fact,
it decreases many people's depression. And the reason I bring
that up is when you look at the world through
the lens of the reality that everyone is suffering, then
it actually changes what you want into a much more
(31:36):
healthy place than sort of this self absorption aspect of it.
Speaker 2 (31:45):
Yeah, wonderful. I mean you have a whole Like you said,
you have a six point plan in your book to
help with that. I mean, we don't need to reveal everything.
We want people to buy your book. But you know,
I think this is a fair question. What is the
very first step that our listeners can take to begin
(32:05):
successfully manifesting themselves today?
Speaker 1 (32:09):
Well, I think it is one the narrative of the
difference between what you think you want and what you
actually need and reflection on that, and in some ways
that relates to what are you're already manifesting. Then the
other is to understand that the universe doesn't give a
(32:30):
fuck about you. It's irrelevant, and the only person who
gives a fuck about you can only be you. And
what people don't understand, and this relates to actually self compassion,
is so many of us have a negative dialogue going
on in our head, right, and it tells us we're
(32:52):
not worthy, we don't deserve, etc. Etc. And what that
does is one, it puts in a constant fear state,
which stimulates your sympathetic nervous system or your flight fight
or freight mode, which actually limits you're talking about creativity,
but it also I believe limits your ability to manifest
(33:14):
because you're not if you will align with those parts
of your brain that get things done. In fact, it
interferes with that. And so one is to understand that
when you have negative self talk, it's like laying down
bricks to create yourself in post prison. So this relates
(33:37):
to limited beliefs, right, because that's what stops manifestation. When
you have chronic negative self talk, that impedes your ability
actually to manifest because once you say I can't or
it's not possible, that becomes truth and as you well know,
your brain doesn't know the difference between truth or untruth.
Speaker 2 (33:58):
So true. Wow, Yeah, this idea that our thoughts create
our reality is powerful to a very large degree. It's
not a complete part, not completely part of the story,
but yeah, it's important part of the story.
Speaker 1 (34:22):
So I think though understanding the power you have within
to change your internal dialogue or the narrative that you have,
and also understanding that once you're able to be kind
to yourself, you often are not as self absorbed, and
(34:44):
you also understand everyone is suffering. And the reason I
think that becomes important is you know, many people are
more hypercritical of themselves than anybody else, right, And then
when you get in that mode, it's very isolating and
in some ways it's a chronic fear response. When you're
(35:05):
able to be kind to yourself and you shift from
this sympathetic nervous system engagement to engagement of your paar
sympathetic nervous system, you look at the world through a
different lens. And when you look at the world through
a more positive lens, it actually, I believe changes what
you think now is important. And again this gets back
(35:28):
to Hadona happiness, where you're seeking pleasure, and that's what
the I generation has done, right, I mean, it's I
want a ferrari. I want to imagine. I want people
to think I'm powerful and influential, and I think that
unfortunately distracts people. And so when you're able to shift
(35:50):
over by looking through a different lens and engage in
your pair sympathetic nervous system, as you know, all of
your cognitive brain network work work much better.
Speaker 2 (36:02):
What is the alphabet of the heart?
Speaker 1 (36:07):
Now you're a friend of my other book, which is okay.
Speaker 2 (36:12):
Isn't it relevant to resonance.
Speaker 1 (36:16):
To give a little clarity to that? In my first book,
Into the Magic Shop, a Neurosurgeon's Quest to understand the
Mysteries of the Brain and the Secrets of the Heart, which,
as you mentioned earlier, I was a New York Times bestseller.
It's the bestseller in eight countries. It's in thirty six languages.
When I was talking about at the end of the
(36:39):
book and this is a memoir that includes neuroscience and
contemplative practice, I was asked to give a talk to
the incoming medical students at my medical school, and as
you know, medical school unfortunately requires an immense amount of memorization,
(37:00):
and people use mnemonics for that, and I wanted to
give the students a mnemonic that would center them in
their lives, and so I created, if you want to
call it, the Alphabet of the Heart, and it's ten letters,
and in many ways it's a summary of what I
have learned on my own journey that centers me. And
(37:23):
to be frank with you getting back to what you
were alluding to, it sets the stage for one for
me to claim my self agency, but also look at
the world through a lens of kindness. And it is
c compassion for self and others, d recognizing the dignity
(37:44):
of every person, E. Practicing equanimity, and just to mention
about equanimity. And this relates also to emotion regulation. We
have a tendency to chase things or have goals, and
we're talking about Hadona happiness. Once you reach the goal,
(38:05):
there's nothing there. And the reality is these experiences are transitory.
But conversely, when we have downtimes where things aren't working
the way we want, many people get into this belief that, oh,
this is going to last forever. I can't handle that.
This is the most horrible thing. But just like you
(38:29):
know these quote unquote positive events or goals that you've attained.
The downside is also transitory, and so having equanimity or
this evenness of temperament, or if you want to call it,
emotion regulation where you don't get lost in the extremes.
That's very very important, and it means that you appreciate
(38:50):
the positive aspects. But on reflection, you also understand that
the wisdom you've obtained, the resilience that you've had as
a human being more often relates to the down states,
and that's where you've learned things. And so in some ways,
(39:11):
actually they both have, if you will, a very positive purpose,
although nobody likes to be in the dowd state. So
f is for forgiveness. And again, people have a tendency
to attach emotion to events, and it's just our nature,
(39:33):
and that can translate attaching emotion to an individual who
you feel has wronged you, and of course the problem
with that is every time you see that person or
think of that event that activates your emotions. Now, on
some level, that's wonderful if it's like a person you
love and you think of them and you have this
warmth about you. But for many people they carry this
(39:56):
anger and hostility towards somebody, it has a very very
negative effect on their physiology. And so being able to forgive,
which is not the same as forgetting, is very important.
And I think one of the most important things, which
I talked about in the book, also is gratitude. If
(40:16):
you reflect on the reality that over fifty percent of
people in the world live on less than two dollars
and fifty cents a day, if you're listening to this podcast,
you are very very blessed. And people get lost again
in a narrative that says I don't have enough. And
(40:37):
it's interesting, no matter how much money some people get,
it's never enough. And in fact, as you know the literature,
the more you get actually doesn't make you more generous.
It makes you look through the world through a lens
of scarcity, which is very very unfortunate. So I reflect
(41:02):
on that a great deal about being thankful. And as
you probably know from my first book, you know I
lost eighty million dollars in six weeks, which had a
little bit of an impact on my life. But again,
(41:22):
and it's an interesting story, right, I went from rags
if you will. I grew up in poverty, you know,
being a neurosurgeon, being a successful entrepreneur, living in a penthouse,
having a large home in Newport Beach, having a Ferrari, Porsche,
BMW range Rover and Mercedes in my garage, flying in
private jets. I had a villain Florence. I was buying
(41:45):
an island in New Zealand. But the interesting thing was,
and of course the fascinating thing is all of these
people are saying, how great you are. Wow, look what
you've done. You have all of these things. And frankly,
when I had all of those things, I was never
more miserable in my entire life. Really, absolutely, I I
was so unhappy. And uh uh you know, imagine it's funny.
(42:10):
I used to a friend of mine owned one of
the most popular restaurants in Newport Beach. You know, it's
one of those places where there's a line a mile long,
and uh and I used to have my own table
there and I would pull up my yellow Ferrari and
park right in front, and you know, hop out and
(42:31):
I would just cut in front of the line and
I would go sit at my table. And at that time,
you could smoke cigars in the restaurants and uh. And
you know, I met innumerable women. Uh and and did
and did go through this thing of meeting all of
these women and frankly sleeping with them. But again, to me, uh,
(42:57):
it was I couldn't do it. No, I couldn't do
it anymore. It bothered me so much, unfortunately, and maybe
my conscience is a little different than most people's, but
I just couldn't do it because I would wake up
with these women and frankly, oftentimes I wouldn't even remember
their names. As soon as I would wake up, I
would want them to be gone. And you know, and
(43:20):
they and they would share their stories with you, and
because I would ask them about them, right, and you know,
it would be like either they had, you know, personal
issues related to maybe abuse, or or they would be
recently divorced and have a few children and they want
(43:40):
to marry somebody, you know, to live the good life, right,
And you know the sad thing is that well, sure,
but the problem is, you know, if you sleep with
some dude you meet after three or four hours, his
interest is not in marrying you or developing a deep relationship.
(44:00):
And for me, I felt so horrible because I was
just using these women for my own self satisfaction, and
they were very vulnerable. I just I had to stop.
I couldn't do it anymore. And so that may seem
strange or contradictory, but it just didn't work for me.
And but that related to so many things.
Speaker 2 (44:21):
Wow, well, thank you, well, thank you for sharing that
story in a way. That story makes you vulnerable in
a way because you know, a lot of academics wouldn't
admit living such a lifestyle, right, so it takes a
little bit of courage to even tell that story.
Speaker 1 (44:40):
Well, you know, in some ways though, what we're talking
about is we're talking about sort of selfish goals. Again.
When I was with this woman in the magic shop,
she taught me a meditation or mindfulness practice, but it
combined self compassion and compassion for others. But it also
a combined and manifestation technique. And I was twelve at
(45:01):
the time. So I made a list of things I wanted,
which is a Rolex watch, a mansion, a portie, a
million dollars, et cetera, et cetera. And I did manifest
every one of those things. But the problem was I
didn't have inside or self awareness at all. And that's
where I got lost and because the reality was everything
(45:23):
was self focused. It was all about me, right, and
even though I was a doctor helping people, it was
still about me. And in fact, that's the interesting aspect
of losing eighty million dollars because after I lost it
with the dot com crash and was three million dollars
(45:43):
in the hole because I had borrowed fifteen million dollars
from the bank, I went through a period of reflection
and I was saying, you know what happened here? I mean,
I had this incredible trajectory and now I'm back having
lost everything. You know, what did I do wrong? And
what I realized was again and it relates very much
(46:06):
to what we're talking about with manifesting. You know, people say,
I want, you know, the match in the car, going
out with hot women, et cetera, et cetera, And I
had all of that, yet it didn't fulfill me. And
I kept waiting for the affirmation from all these other
people to tell me how great I was, and nothing
took care of my own insecurity or shame. And so
(46:31):
during that period of reflection, I changed the narrative or
I changed my perspective, which is an important part of
how we change our brain in some ways, because I
realized it wasn't about me, and when I focused on others,
that actually changed everything. And as an example, after losing
(46:53):
all that money and going through this period, I tell
people I ended up with two best friends during that
period of time. One was the band who said, when
are you paying me? And the other was my lawyer.
Because I had to deal with a lot of issues
and I had made some arrangements to give money to
charity stock that I had in a company that I
had run, and I spoke to the lawyer and he said, look, Jim,
(47:17):
we actually did not file the paperwork and you actually
still own all of that stock, so you don't have
to give it to charity. And I reflected on this,
and here I am three million the hole. I said, no,
go ahead and give it all the charity. And so
this ended up being thirty million dollars. I set up
(47:42):
I set up health clinics around the world, blood banks,
I set up programs for the disabled. I set up
a program for adolescents affected by AIDS HIV, and I
endowed chairs at Stanford as well as at my medical
school two Lane in New Orleans. I rebuilt the library
after Hurricane Katrina, and in fact I was the guy
(48:07):
who had probably the lowest GPA ever to get into
medical school, which I was very appreciative of. The medical
school took me, and I ended up after Hurricane Katrina,
the dean had resigned and they wanted to recruit a
fellow from Harvard, but he wanted an endowed chair, so
I actually ended up endowing his chair, and so the
(48:29):
dean at Tulane is the Doughty professor actually, so it's
an interesting trajectory. But the point was that I went
from rags to riches, at least in a monetary sense,
and then when I went back to rags again, I
actually got everything. And what I mean by that is
(48:52):
I don't want to give the impression that losing thirty
million dollars my life was were in because at the
end of the day, I was a neurosurgeon, still getting
paid point nine percent more than everyone else, and you know,
so I certainly could not complain in any way about that.
But I changed my focus to be of service to
others because I realized how powerful that was. And in fact,
(49:15):
that is the point of this book, is to not
focus on yourself. I have people say, well, you say,
you know you were miserable having all this stuff. Well,
I want to be miserable for a while, if I
could only be so miserable. Yeah, yeah, exactly exactly. And
(49:36):
so you know, until you have it and realize it's
a losory, you think you want that. But I would say,
because it interferes with everything, the self absorption and what
also interferes with everybody wants to be around you and
wants something.
Speaker 2 (49:57):
Okay, so how much is in the alphabet? Does it go?
Speaker 1 (49:59):
It is Z No? No, no, it goes to L
L gratitude right, whether we're at humility, integrity, and values.
J is for justice or responsibility to the vulnerable. K
is kindness and all contained by love. That is the
alphabet of the heart.
Speaker 2 (50:21):
Well, I love the alphabet of the heart. I do.
I mean, it does seem like the alphabet of the
heart helps you manifest things that give you greater meaning
than short term, ephemeral states of happiness. Would you agree
with that? No?
Speaker 1 (50:41):
Absolutely, I think that in some ways that can guide
you along the way if you want to utilize that.
And it also, at least for me, it's part of
my own if you want to call it meditative practice,
because I wake up every morning and do a breathing
exercise to again shift me from engagement of my sympathetic
nervous system to my para sympathetic nervous system, which is
(51:04):
very much like a mindfulness or mind training practice. And
then I put in the context of looking at the
world through awe and joy, and then I H recite
that alphabet, and uh that sets my intention because as
you know, all of us get distracted and uh and
we start thinking how important we are oftentimes and it
(51:29):
sort of puts me in the right uh you know
frame of mind, uh, if you will. Uh so, Uh yeah,
I think that does. But getting back to uh the
goal of the book. Uh, you mentioned some aspects. I
think one is and this is related to what you
had said earlier about uh, you know, pursuing your goals
(51:51):
passionately if you will, uh is you have to put
the time in. And the other aspect is, uh, you
can't get lost on expectations, which again creates unhappiness. We
were talking about attachment and craving, and of course one
(52:13):
of the tenets of Buddhist practice is that's the source
of all suffering. And so when you're so focused on
quote unquote manifesting, you're going to be unhappy. You're going
to be unhappy for multiple reasons. One is of that
people who are so focused on a goal oftentimes do
(52:34):
it to the detriment of everybody around them. Again, it
becomes a very self focused behavior. And yet, as you
well know, being present and is the most important thing
because that's where all the action is right and that's
(52:55):
how you make human connection. And so yes, it's you
need to pursue your goals passionately. You need to put
the work in, but that doesn't mean not being in
the present moment. And then the other aspect is people
get lost in this idea that manifestation one should work
(53:16):
out exactly as they wish. Jeez, I want to blue
Porsche delivered on Christmas Day. It does not work that
way at all, And so oftentimes one it's not on
your timeline. As an example, I've had one of my
(53:38):
embedded intentions is to have a world Compassion Festival. Well
that's only been going on for thirteen years now. Do
I believe it will happen? Yes? But again I don't
control the clock. But I have done everything I can
to embed that intention, and things move in that direction.
(54:00):
And the other thing is oftentimes, like I was saying,
you know, I want a blue portie, it doesn't work
that way. You may get something similar, and there may
be all sorts of reasons you don't appreciate why that's
the case. So I think that's important to accept. And again,
you create an image, but you also have to release
(54:25):
that and just understand that there are other events that
impact And sometimes we don't get the thing we want
to manifest because there's good reason we don't get it right,
and there are other things at play here, and there
are other things that on a subconscious level may be
more salient or more meaningful to us, or actually a
(54:50):
better way than the way we think.
Speaker 2 (54:54):
Or yeah, better for us as well, Like sometimes the
universe has our back, even though it doesn't care about us.
Speaker 1 (54:59):
But you know what I mean, yes, exactly.
Speaker 2 (55:05):
Something is happening that that is is in your best interest,
and you'd be you'd be best served by being grateful
for it and and being a little flexible, even if
it diverts from your your pie in the sky. Visions
of Ferraris so Jim one of my favorite quotes from
your book is at the end where you say manifesting
(55:28):
is a practice of well being, for orienting harmoniously with life.
Love that I want to kind of send, send us out,
you know, in this interview with that kind of vibrational frequency.
Thanks so much for writing a science backed book that
I think almost all of us can rally around and
get behind.
Speaker 1 (55:47):
So thank you, Jim, Well, thank you for having me.
It's always a pleasure to connect with you, and so
I look forward to our further interaction, hopefully in New York.
Speaker 2 (56:00):
Me too, Me too.
Speaker 1 (56:01):
All the best in the books are okay, you too.
Take care.
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