June 27, 2024 • 55 mins
This week Scott is joined by author and podcaster, Cory Allen. Scott and Cory discuss how to live better through teachings on mindfulness, mental clarity, facing reality, and personal growth through the lens of Buddhism.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
In order to make change, you have to close the
gap between your perception of reality and what's really happening,
because only then can you take action that affects real life.
Speaker 2 (00:22):
Today, we welcome Corey Allen to the show. Corey is
an author, podcast host, and social media influencer from Austin, Texas.
Corey writes daily thoughts on mindfulness and mental clarity for
his large Instagram following and I mean really large, reaching
over a million people a week. On his podcast, he
discusses how to live better through teachings on mindfulness, mental clarity,
and personal growth. Corey's new book, Brave New You, a
(00:45):
roadmap to believing that More as Possible, is out now,
and is the focus of our playful and informative conversation.
Corey Alan, Welcome to the Psychology Podcast.
Speaker 3 (00:58):
Sound just like me, dude.
Speaker 2 (01:00):
Your voice is amazing.
Speaker 3 (01:01):
Thanks, it's amazing. Someone tells me that every.
Speaker 2 (01:03):
Day now, does it get well if it's lower, like
it's lower since we talked last years ago.
Speaker 3 (01:08):
Or no, I don't.
Speaker 1 (01:10):
I mean it might be because it's you know, I'm
I'm forty two now, so I'm aging.
Speaker 2 (01:16):
Yeah, Well, this is the first time I met you
in person. Yeah, it's an honor pleasure. It's been really
great seeing you grow over the years as well. Like,
you know, I see you on like Instagram, I'm like, oh,
like a triple take, Like what happened to that motherfucker? Look?
Speaker 3 (01:32):
Is so glad.
Speaker 2 (01:33):
Great to have you here. And I really enjoyed your
most recent book, which is called Brave New You a
road Map to Believing that More is Possible. There's so
much in here. It's I mean it's like a kind
of like the ultimate self help book.
Speaker 3 (01:48):
Yeah, I mean you covered like everything I tried to.
Speaker 2 (01:51):
Yeah, we're like, tell me about the journey to get
to writing this book. How many years have you been
working on it?
Speaker 3 (01:58):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (01:58):
Just give me the journey?
Speaker 1 (01:59):
Yeah man, I mean so basically that's kind of the
wager is like they say you shouldn't try to make
a book that covers everything, but you know, it's like,
we'll never know if it's possible if you don't try.
And really like what I started doing, and this is
interesting because I I wanted to figure out, you know,
(02:20):
being a school a fan of perception like you are,
and studying your own consciousness, I started thinking like, Okay,
I think that I know what would be helpful to people? Right, Yeah,
that's not true, Like whatever, my perception of what's going
to be useful to people is just the narrative in
my brain about like how I see reality or.
Speaker 2 (02:43):
Do you feel like a lot of people reject when
they try to think what would be good for someone
else everyone? Do you see that in the self help
space as well? Oh yeah, talk about that's a callback
to and off the record conversation.
Speaker 1 (02:54):
You know, no names will be but one of your
favorite writers it talks about letting go is obsessed with money,
one of your favorite podcasters has a difficult time having
conversations with people close to them, and another one of
your favorite people that talks about mindfulness loves alcohol. It's all,
(03:15):
it's almost always the counterpointal weight.
Speaker 2 (03:19):
To the defense mechanims.
Speaker 3 (03:23):
Yeah, it's like.
Speaker 1 (03:24):
How why relationship coaches are single a lot of times?
Speaker 3 (03:27):
A great point.
Speaker 1 (03:27):
Yeah, So I was trying. I was I thought, like,
how can I get objective information and feedback on like
what what people in the world, you know, want to
experience and what they need, Because it's very difficult whenever
you have experienced like a school of thought or a
set of experiences that have brought some insider wisdom to
(03:49):
you to think about what your life was like before
you had those experiences. So after you've had them, you know,
everything seems apparent, but to really rewind your perception. It's
like for you, like in meditation or something, the first
time that you became aware that you had thoughts like
flowing through your mind and your observational met of mind
(04:09):
sort of turned on. And then from that point on
you've gone through life being aware of the arising mental
formations in your mind and you can notice what thoughts.
But think trying to get your perception back to what
that was like before that, it's wild, right, right? So
I was thinking, like, how can I access sort of
(04:30):
that texture of mind and figure out what those people
might need. So what I started doing as my social
media falling, like kept growing and growing, getting to half
a million and reaching a million people a week amazing,
thank you, is I started paying really close attention to
everything that I posted, the comments that people were leaving,
(04:53):
the reactions that people were having, even like the kind
of insight impressions and data impressions like what's grabbing p people,
who's sharing things?
Speaker 3 (05:01):
How much?
Speaker 1 (05:01):
What's the and I took a lot of notes, like
a ton to look at like what is like en mass,
what is the cultural need here? Like what is the
real reaction the reaction that people may not even be
realizing they're giving me because they're just responding to this
thing they're reading. But if you zoom out and look
at it all, it's like what is in the culture,
(05:22):
Like what do we need?
Speaker 3 (05:23):
You know?
Speaker 1 (05:24):
And So I took all these notes over the course
of probably like a year, and I also use that
information to then start writing to those points in my
social media, which is why it keeps growing is because
I'm figuring. I figured out, like, if you listen in
this interesting way, then you can actually speak to what
is needed right now in the times?
Speaker 2 (05:42):
Don't marketers call that pain points?
Speaker 3 (05:44):
Yeah? It is.
Speaker 1 (05:47):
And those are generally yeah, and those are I think
those are kind of they tend to seek like, I
don't know, almost sort of like manufactured. They look like money, sex, status, sounds.
Speaker 2 (05:59):
Good, I mean, I mean, I'm not supposed to say
that seeking in life.
Speaker 1 (06:05):
Hey, You're supposed to be seeking whatever the fuck you
want to be seeking.
Speaker 3 (06:08):
Good, That's what I think.
Speaker 1 (06:12):
So so I looked at all these and nomen does
sound good?
Speaker 3 (06:15):
Why why? What's wrong with that? Seriously?
Speaker 2 (06:17):
Exactly exactly.
Speaker 1 (06:19):
It's not about it's not I mean, we don't want
to go on too many tangents here, but like you know, money, sex,
and status are they're great. There's a reason why people
go after them. The key is not the thing. The
key is how you relate to those things once you
achieve them.
Speaker 3 (06:32):
That's huge.
Speaker 1 (06:33):
You know, how does it change how you see the world,
how you operate, what you do with it? Yeah, So
I took all this information and I looked at like
what would be a linear path, Like how can I
create this entry point and get to someone to basically
feeling how I feel in the world. And that's what
the book is. It's like doing this mental house cleaning
(06:55):
for the beginning of getting people aware, turning on the
awareness of their thoughts, and they're you know, self understanding
because of course that's the beginning of everything. You have
to become self aware to make any change, you know,
and then it just all goes and goes through there.
Speaker 2 (07:12):
Yeah, that's why turtles don't make too many changes in
their lives. They're so on autopilot over there, you know.
So I I love that you start with that and
you talk about how mindsets are magic, and you know,
because I'm like a big mindset a guy like I
really believe in them. And we're in a new book
(07:34):
right now that has is all about a particular mindset
I think we really desperately need in our society. But
can you tell me what you mean by the word
mindset and also what you mean by magic?
Speaker 3 (07:45):
Sure?
Speaker 1 (07:45):
So sure, So a mindset is the how you're approaching
the world, right, It's the frame of mind, the perspective
and which yeah, sure, a lens, Yeah, and it's a lens.
I think if we use lens, this is a metaphor.
We should look at you and remember that what's in
front of the lens is just as important as what's
(08:06):
behind the lens. Both of those things working together create
the picture that's in focus, you know. And so snip
that quote.
Speaker 3 (08:15):
And so.
Speaker 1 (08:18):
And so uh yeah, like so that's really where it is.
So example, if you are and here's where the magic
comes in. Let's just use myself. For example, if I'm
walking into this to meet with you in the studio
and do this recording, and I'm feeling anxious and like,
oh my god, like, how am I going to do?
Speaker 3 (08:35):
I hope I show up.
Speaker 1 (08:36):
Well, I'm going to come in here with this mindset
of anxiety, of discomfort, And what it's going to do
is it's going to then have a physiog physiological effect.
It's going to you know, release you know, adrenaline. If
I hadn't left in my body, it would release that.
It's going to change my heart rate, it's going to
change my my you know, my mental processing and all
(08:58):
this stuff. And it's not going to go well. But
if you walk in and you're like, hey, this is good,
this is friendly. They asked me to be here. I
know what I'm talking about.
Speaker 2 (09:08):
It's gonna be and you know who you are.
Speaker 1 (09:10):
You know who you are, and like, this is gonna
be fucking fun. You know that's bekaa.
Speaker 3 (09:15):
How could not be time? That's right? Yeah?
Speaker 1 (09:19):
And so you walk in and then you go like,
all right, let's have some fun here. Then the not
only does and this is where the magic happens, is
that it changes not only how you feel and how
you show up in your life, but then it changes
how we experience this moment together totally. Because if I
was in here and I was timid and like awkward
and anxious. You would be like trying to reach for it.
(09:41):
But the second I walked in, we started laughing and
having a good time. Right, So that's just that didn't
happen to me. But I'm using that as an example
of how that unfolds. But a person can look at
that and map it over to any point in their life.
They're going on an interview. You walk in and you're like,
I hope that they like me?
Speaker 3 (10:00):
Is the wrong mindset?
Speaker 1 (10:01):
You walk in you're interviewing them to make sure that
they're worth your time because you're spending forty hours a
week at some job. It's like, do I want to
do they have what it takes for me to do this?
You know, relationships, what you know, your creativity, whatever it
is that you want to be doing. It's like changing
those mindsets. Slowing down, being conscious and mindful of the
(10:22):
story you're telling yourself and the narrative that you're creating
in your mind at any given moment is how you
totally make that magic come to life and shift everything.
Speaker 2 (10:31):
Yeah, and in an authentic way. Yeah, I think sometimes
you can just not be really feeling it and then
like you adopt a mindset doesn't really feel right, and
maybe there's you know, maybe there are times where it's okay,
like you're to not put on a certain mindset, and
maybe that'd be the the unauthentic thing to do.
Speaker 3 (10:48):
I don't know, I'm just r.
Speaker 1 (10:50):
Yeah, what would be an example of that for you?
Speaker 2 (10:54):
You know? Sometimes if I am really nervous and I
have to give a keynote instead of like forcing myself
to have like just be positive mindset, I get out
on stage and I go, I am fucking nervous right now.
Speaker 3 (11:05):
Do you vocalize it to the audience thousand percent?
Speaker 2 (11:09):
Well, that relaxes me, relax to the audience, and usually
I'm fine after that. Sometimes I just have to say it. Yeah,
Sometimes I just have to not just say it, but
work through it and embody and breathe it.
Speaker 3 (11:19):
You know.
Speaker 2 (11:20):
Sometimes like the authentic experience is fine. There's nothing wrong
with being nervous. There's nothing wrong, you know, there's you know,
I'm just arguing against toxic positivity. I love this, and
I know you're not about toxic positivity.
Speaker 1 (11:35):
No, No, this is great. It was It's a really
good point. It's like I think that, you know, with
any of the stuff you can keep going upstream, you know,
And I think that's what you're talking about, is it's
like your mindset wasn't to go like, what's the what's
the issue? The issue would be you going on stage
and being nervous. So instead of like, instead of looking
at the issue and changing that, let's go upstream and
(11:56):
let's say, let's change your mindset to one that we
can work with this instead of being overwhelmed with this.
And your method of doing that is just openness and
connecting to the audience through through that, which is beautiful.
Speaker 2 (12:10):
Connection is like that's where it's at, right, Like, I
find that's the answer to everything, you know, even like
I mean everything I can't think of exception. Connection didn't
relax me. You know, activating the calm and connect system
of the brain is much much better than activating the
flight and flight and flee and the other f yeah,
(12:30):
fornicate the three yes, yes, yes, Okay. So you talk
about I mean a lot of a lot of this book.
You do talk about conscious consciousness, a state of consciousness.
I mean, that's really a big part of it. And
you talk about really getting as clear a mind as possible.
What do you mean by that, I know what. Like
we had Shane Parish on recently, you talked about clear thinking.
Speaker 3 (12:53):
What how do you like?
Speaker 2 (12:55):
What do you mean by it?
Speaker 3 (12:56):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (12:57):
Clarity is to me, it is being able to see
and be aware of the thoughts that you're having in
your mind.
Speaker 2 (13:05):
Self awareness.
Speaker 3 (13:06):
Right.
Speaker 1 (13:06):
So a lot of people that you know, I know,
you're you have a decent amount of Eastern you know
thought in your background as far as things that you're right,
you know, I think we've talked about.
Speaker 3 (13:16):
That in the point too. I do. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (13:18):
And so for me, you know, noticing I feel seen,
I tried and transcend to integrate Eastern thank.
Speaker 1 (13:26):
You beautiful, beautiful. Yeah. But you know, a lot of
that stuff is poorly translated if you read like commentaries
as a polycnon or something, and the memes of those
buzzwords that have made it into popular culture often are
very far away from what the actual original meaning was,
and they kind of taken on their own thing, and
(13:47):
that causes confusion because everyone's sort of like abstracting this
idea of whatever this meaning is. So a clear mind
is generally one that I have found is really confusing
for people because they go a clear mind that clear.
In Western language, that means empty. Empty means nothing, nothing
means mind, no mind, I should have an empty mind.
(14:09):
Like that's I can't do that, like one of these.
So then again, since the Western culture is based on
like status and achieving, then they go, I can't do that.
I'm failing. I feel bad. I'm a terrible person, I'm
a loveable my parents hate me, et cetera, et cetera,
and it goes down. Yeah, yeah, and so, and of
course it's.
Speaker 3 (14:26):
Not that bad.
Speaker 1 (14:27):
I'm just joking being hyperbolic for comedy sake, But you know.
Speaker 2 (14:32):
I live in that space of hyperbolic for comedy. That's like,
that's my like momentary experience of being me.
Speaker 1 (14:40):
Well we're long lost friends there. So so clear mind
is really it's it's having clarity to see your mind.
Speaker 2 (14:53):
I see.
Speaker 3 (14:53):
So whenever you.
Speaker 1 (14:54):
Recognize what thoughts are arising, noticing them, having some space
around them, and being able to make int internal choices
in the moment around what you're observing.
Speaker 2 (15:03):
How much does that require changing sort of stories that
you have in your head about who you are and
your place in the world.
Speaker 3 (15:10):
Yeah, I think it's huge.
Speaker 1 (15:11):
I mean I think that I mean to me I
think that letting go of that as much as possible
is really valuable because.
Speaker 2 (15:21):
Letting go of all the stories.
Speaker 1 (15:23):
I mean, I think, perhaps.
Speaker 2 (15:25):
Can I keep the one where I'm a hero?
Speaker 3 (15:28):
Yeah, definitely, definitely. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (15:31):
I think the stories about perhaps the present are good
to let go of. I like to let go of those. Yeah,
the stories that have hardened over the past can be useful.
It's a very least for just kind of reflective purposes.
But even those, I like to keep them soft.
Speaker 3 (15:53):
You know.
Speaker 1 (15:54):
This is one of the things I've found through kind
of I know it sounds weird, but studying people line,
like studying the kind of the texture of culture online,
what people are talking about, what they're responding to, the
biggest problem, the biggest thing I've seen people vocalize is
that they feel like they have this kind of concept,
(16:16):
this feeling of like God, I could just I could
improve my life, I could do this thing. It's right there,
but there's this little barrier. They just can't break through
this barrier. Everyone feels like that success is like right
out of touch, you know. And I started thinking about
like what is that, Like, what is that?
Speaker 3 (16:35):
What is that thing?
Speaker 1 (16:37):
And I think it's it kind of goes back to
some of the mindset stuff, but really is it's the story,
and it's that we get used to what we're experiencing
in life because everything is normalized for so long that
we begin to accept that for what in quotes what is,
(16:57):
and we don't we're not really care of stopping and
breaking that story and realizing, like, the possibilities of my
existence are way greater the truly anything that I want
them to be. But it's that I've gotten used to
seeing this as the limit, seeing this is like what
I'm capable of or or what's available to me in
(17:19):
life even and the normalization of that it comes over
your entire life, and that's why it's so hard to
break out of you.
Speaker 2 (17:27):
Know, yeah, I mean, how did you break out of it?
Speaker 1 (17:32):
It's a constant process. And really again that's why at
the beginning of this podcast I was talking about the
book is like I want people to kind of be
able to experience the same mindset shift that I did.
And that's really ultimately that's the story that's told in
the book. Even though I don't relate it to me,
I relate it to the person reading because I want
(17:52):
to be about.
Speaker 3 (17:52):
Them not about me.
Speaker 1 (17:54):
Yeah, but it's you know, it's a lot of trial
and error.
Speaker 3 (17:58):
It's a lot of.
Speaker 1 (18:02):
In my case, like having a you know, dysfunctional emotional
background made me very self sufficient and hyper independent. Whenever
I was very young. You know, I did start this
sort of not to get too off track here, but
I did start like playing with reality from a very
young age.
Speaker 3 (18:21):
For some reason.
Speaker 1 (18:22):
I started, like, for example, whenever I first as a
little kid, started sensing that Santa Claus was like something
was weird. I told my mom, I was like, I
want to go to talk to Santa at the mall.
So I did a little a B testing, so I
went up there, and then I said I'll go talk
to him by myself. So I went to the mall Santa,
and I told him I wanted one thing for Christmas.
(18:45):
And then when I was done, I went out and
my mom was there and she's like, what did you
tell Sandy wanted? I told her a different thing, and
I was like, we'll see it. Wait, see what shows
a scientists. Yeah, and of course we can all guess
which one showed up.
Speaker 2 (18:56):
Yeah, the thing you told Sannah, Yeah exactly, that Sannah
is real?
Speaker 3 (19:00):
Right, what happened, right, Yeah, that's it.
Speaker 1 (19:06):
But anyway, yeah, so you know, for me, it was
a lot of just I think recognizing that reality is
really like what you make of it. You know that
things aren't going to magically just turn around, but you
have to start listening to what you were feeling, what
what are you drawn towards as opposed to what you're
(19:27):
trying to force in life. You know, it's like, so
if you're like I want to you get very empathetic.
I'm not used to people that are so empathetic.
Speaker 2 (19:35):
And why you're just hanging out with the bros all day?
Speaker 1 (19:38):
I guess yeah, maybe, I guess so you're Yeah, you're very,
very very sweet guy.
Speaker 2 (19:48):
So I can't help it.
Speaker 1 (19:50):
Sweet Verry Kaufman over here.
Speaker 2 (19:52):
Okay, that's sweet better Kaufman over here.
Speaker 1 (19:57):
That's going to be the name of your soul concept.
Speaker 3 (20:00):
Love it. I love it.
Speaker 2 (20:00):
That's literally going to be my new name started starting
right now.
Speaker 1 (20:05):
It also changes the barrier to b e r ry.
You start going like, okay, well, what's like, what's some
one thing I could change?
Speaker 3 (20:13):
You know?
Speaker 1 (20:14):
Is it trying to be more well kempt is like
trying to be like, well, me let me dress better,
let me be a little bit cosmetically. You know, let's
get a facial routine going on here, let's do something.
You do one thing like that, And what that does
is it starts to build meaning and purpose because you've
seen something, You've identified something that's going to make you
feel better or that you can achieve. That's a small win.
(20:35):
It's actually something I talk about in the books is
making setting attainable goals. You set something small, you attain it.
And this is how we create meaning in life is
you find something meaningful to you that in that sense
of like, let me try and do this. You achieve
this small goal. You notice how, even in a tiny way,
it's made your life better, and not only does that
(20:56):
show you that moving forward is possible in life, but
also old self confidence by going like, you know what,
I accomplish that, and then you know, this is kind
of where I get to at the end of the book.
The more that you do that, the more that you
are able to trust your intuition instinct and that's the
root of everything. And then you go, hmm, that little
voice inside, that intuitive feeling. I listened to that and
(21:20):
it did improve. It was right I can trust it now. Yeah,
and that creates a feedback loop over weeks, months, years,
and decades.
Speaker 2 (21:32):
You're not advocating being delusional, putting on just put on
a delusional mindset, you know, actually make real changes to
your life.
Speaker 3 (21:40):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (21:41):
And there's another thing I dislike more than delusion.
Speaker 2 (21:44):
Awesome, right on.
Speaker 1 (21:47):
Three poisons, man, anger, desire, and delusion.
Speaker 3 (21:51):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (21:53):
I think the desire one is an interesting one because
I think the desire, you know, I wouldn't get out
of bed in the morning, in the in the morning
if I didn't have desires to make the world a
better place.
Speaker 1 (22:05):
Yeah, but surely you understand that that's the mistranslation.
Speaker 2 (22:08):
Yeah, they're talking about more like attachments.
Speaker 3 (22:12):
Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (22:13):
So it's like so, but also, wholesome desires are good
if you read the canon, like poly canon, like the
buddh would say, you know, like wholesome goals and desires
and wants, like that's that's great because you're cultivating more,
you know, skillfulness in your life. But it's the desires
which keep you ultimately more diluted, intermoved from presence, and
(22:37):
that wholesomeness and skillfulness is or what's bad not because
they're morally bad. It's like that's one of the things
that like living in a in a western, you know,
religious society, we apply this like weird Christian morality to
everything in Eastern thought. But really it's like, no, it's
like not if they say, you know, desire to drink
(22:59):
a bottle of urban every night, which I have, you know,
I have that desire, They're like they're like, that's not
bad morally, it's just bad because it's not going to
get you further to a place of feeling good and
ultimately free of suffering.
Speaker 2 (23:12):
Sure, I know that's what Buddhist would say.
Speaker 3 (23:15):
Here's the thing. Here's the thing.
Speaker 2 (23:16):
And I have a great, well, a good friend of
mine who's also his name is Corey.
Speaker 3 (23:22):
And I talked to him yesterday. Yeah you know Corey.
Speaker 2 (23:26):
Yeah, he's one of my best friends. And he's going
to be in my show next week.
Speaker 3 (23:30):
Is he coming here. We're gonna do a virtual okay.
Speaker 2 (23:32):
Okay, yeah, because I I challenge him on some things
and so we're gonna just hash it out next week.
Don't get me started on the Buddhist stuff, because I
feel like a lot of people talk as though like, well,
if the Buddhas said.
Speaker 3 (23:46):
It, you can't challenge it.
Speaker 2 (23:49):
And I'm just I'm the kind of person that, like,
you can't say that about anything, like if it's a cult,
it's a religion, I don't give fuck.
Speaker 1 (23:56):
Yeah, it's like if you're a person, then you got
a problem. Yeah, you know, it's well the Buddha would say,
he would say, challenge, challenge me, yeah.
Speaker 2 (24:03):
Yeah, yeah, And and and I am Buddhist.
Speaker 3 (24:07):
I follow the path of the Buddha.
Speaker 1 (24:12):
So this is my This is what's funny is like
I've studied Buddhism for twenty years. I'm obsessed with I've
read read the you know, like a bazillion translations of
poly cannon I, Patika, all all the things, right, but
I'm still not a Buddhist. I don't identify as one.
But I find it all very fascinating and useful and
I apply a lot of it to my my kind
(24:35):
of tool kit in life. But the problem is is
that in the forl Noble Truths Number one is what
I can't get on board with, you know, where it's
it's like it's basically like or I mean, in the
Eightful Paths. So like the for Noble truths. Yeah, sure,
like life is suffering, desire causes suffering. There's a way
out of suffering, and number four is the eight full
Path is the way. So the eight full Path great.
(24:57):
I love seven of the folds of the path. But
number one, where it's like basically except that reincarnation is real,
is the one where I'm like, sorry, I can't do it.
Speaker 2 (25:07):
And you're allowed to say that and still be Buddhist. Yeah,
you know, like, I don't think you should have to
agree with every single thing that a spiritual leader says
in order to respect that spiritual leader or to follow
them for the most part. Yeah, well thanks for saying
that for sure. Thanks for inmitting that. I get hung
up on the desires one. But I want to move
(25:29):
on because you have so much cool stuff in.
Speaker 1 (25:31):
Your book and I'm excited to listen to the conversation
with you and the what.
Speaker 2 (25:35):
About free will we're going to talk about. We disagree
on the free will issue. We disagree on a lot
of things, which is so interesting considering I just love
his way of being and the way he lives his life.
But it's funny how I still like disagree with some stuff.
Speaker 3 (25:49):
So totally so and that's that's good.
Speaker 1 (25:51):
And yeah, it's free will of the conversation that everyone
wants to hear but no one wants to listen to.
Speaker 2 (25:56):
Yeah, well that's very true. That's very true. Okay, so
this one's really interesting. In your book, you're talking about
how you can hurry up to slow down. No, that's
not it. That's not it. I fucked it up. You
can be quick. You talking about how you can be
quick hurry up? No, you do say be quick to
(26:16):
slow down your action. I wasn't slow enough.
Speaker 1 (26:23):
Now there's a real if I ever saw one, just
you reading that, put that on Instagram, your golden man.
Speaker 2 (26:29):
This is no funny episode?
Speaker 3 (26:31):
Yeah? Good? Are they normally not funny? They are?
Speaker 1 (26:33):
Actually I was gonna say, how could they not be?
Speaker 3 (26:35):
They usually no?
Speaker 2 (26:36):
But this is fun.
Speaker 1 (26:37):
Use words like hoot. I mean, that's just that's a
good start.
Speaker 2 (26:41):
And also, with a freaking twenty and fifty milligram chill
pill sitting on me, how can you not be?
Speaker 3 (26:46):
You know what is? This is why?
Speaker 1 (26:48):
This is one of the reasons I'm happy to come
to New York and do this with you, because you
don't get this same energy.
Speaker 3 (26:55):
And as a computer.
Speaker 2 (26:57):
No, you really don't you know.
Speaker 1 (26:58):
You gotta we gotta are more for genetic field. It's
gotta gotta get entangled.
Speaker 3 (27:04):
You know.
Speaker 2 (27:05):
So let me try this again. So you talk about
you're talking about you that you have to be quick
to hold down your reactions. What do you mean by that, Corey,
what do you mean it's tripping me up?
Speaker 3 (27:20):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (27:20):
So quick to slow down my reactions?
Speaker 3 (27:24):
Matrix.
Speaker 1 (27:25):
It is a matrix. Yeah, yeah, and it's sort of
it's working. Like the fact that you're stopping to think
about it means that it's working. He's so empathetic, it's amazing.
I need, like, I need to film that if you
meet people that are not the same level of kindness
and genuineness, I need to film you doing that and
just keep it on my phones every one so I
(27:46):
can pull it up and just have you been like, yeah,
that feels good.
Speaker 2 (27:51):
I am a coach.
Speaker 1 (27:54):
Well, I'm just gonna have some weird, like fetish coaching
session with you where you just do that to me.
Speaker 2 (27:59):
You just validating, validating except me for an hour strength.
Speaker 3 (28:03):
I love that.
Speaker 2 (28:03):
I love that.
Speaker 3 (28:04):
I could use that too.
Speaker 1 (28:05):
We'll do a validating sixty.
Speaker 3 (28:09):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (28:10):
So yeah, so being quick to slow down your reactions
is basically it's really helpful in any aspect of your life,
you know. And what I'm talking about is that we
unconsciously react to pretty much everything. Like as you're talking,
I'm reacting to what you're saying. Sure, I'm reacting to
I'm feeling. As I'm in the subway, I'm reacting to
(28:31):
the other people around me, to the noise of things.
I'm reacting to my own thoughts about stuff. If I
read an email and there's something, you know, it's a problem,
I would react. I'd feel irritated, I'd feel stressed, i
would feel like I had to do something. So every
you know, in the kind of the landscape of our
experience and in our minds, every thought, ultimately that arises
(28:53):
we will react to because of our you know, like
basically the analystic part of our brain and our evolutionary psychology.
It's like, respond to the situation. You need to respond
to nature. You have to respond to your environment, because
that could be the response could be nothing, it could
be getting out of the way of a jaguar, it
could be whatever. So, you know, if we look at
(29:14):
the ecosystem of life that people are in now, people
are scrolling on a phone's they're whatever. So everything they're seeing,
they're reacting emotionally and intellectually in some way large or small.
And so this notion of not reacting is breaking this
chain of patterned reactions that we have in our lives,
being able to put space in the present moment around
(29:37):
those so that with the goal of becoming more intentional
in your experience as opposed to being mindless and just reacting.
So someone says something to you that irritates you, rather
than just reacting mindlessly and saying something mean back or
saying something defensive. And then maybe later you think about
that moment, you post event process, and you feel bad
(29:59):
about it, or you feel vindicated or.
Speaker 3 (30:01):
Egoic or whatever.
Speaker 1 (30:02):
In the moment, you recognize what's happening, and instead of reacting,
you notice, and this gets better and better. We could
go through the minutia of this if you want. But
you notice the reaction arising, the feeling, the urge of
the body and the mind trying to serve the impulse.
You pause and create the space, and then in the
(30:23):
present moment intentionally choose to act differently. What you're doing
is disrupting the pattern of your behavior and allowing yourself
to slowly intentionally become someone new, more of the person
that you want to be in that present moment. So
if someone says something to you that's harmful, instead of saying,
you know, go fuck yourself, that obviously is bad for you.
(30:46):
It's bad for them, it's not good for you. It
keeps you stuck in embodying, feeling negative emotions, It keeps
you in the same pathway of thinking, and ultimately you're
narrowing down your reality and your viewpoint of the world.
And just stay in this, this small little pattern of
negativity if you can, in that moment recognize those feelings arise,
(31:09):
choose to act differently, and instead of being like you know,
saying telling someone go fuck yourself, being like let me,
let me like receive what they said, see like, think
about where they're saying it from, why I'm feeling this way,
and then respond in a thoughtful, constructive or don't respond
at all and just move on. What that does is
(31:30):
it disrupts that pattern of behavior. And when you realize
that your reactions to you know, other people, to situations
in life, to your own anxiety, to your own fear,
to your own sense of incapability. If you're looking at
something like a project or something you want to do,
and you're like, I'm not going to try that because
(31:51):
it's I can't do that. Any of these reactions, you know,
you can pause and notice that arising, stop and respond
to what you're feeling as supposed to react to it,
and rewrite the program of your thinking and therefore rewrite
what enfolds in the future.
Speaker 3 (32:10):
Nice.
Speaker 2 (32:11):
Nice, that sounds good. Sign me up.
Speaker 3 (32:13):
Yeah, I want to rewrite my future. Write it you
just you want to.
Speaker 1 (32:18):
You want to rewrite your present, and that writes your future.
Speaker 2 (32:22):
Right, you have this whole you have this whole section,
new view, new you. Right, So what you really think
that can I change? Can I actually change myself?
Speaker 3 (32:33):
Like?
Speaker 2 (32:33):
Can I actually like fundamentally?
Speaker 3 (32:35):
Yeah? Wow sure?
Speaker 1 (32:37):
I mean why why wouldn't.
Speaker 2 (32:38):
You be able to without the use of substances?
Speaker 1 (32:40):
Oh well, that is that's an addendum to that. No, yeah, definitely,
I have found that, you know, while substances can be helpful,
they simply they're just doorways.
Speaker 3 (32:52):
They're not answers.
Speaker 1 (32:54):
The answers really come from doing the more difficult work
of patiently observing your mind in the present. Moment and
making small changes again and again and again and over time,
that's what creates the permanent change. I agree with that
to look at it. You know, one time in deep meditation,
it hit me that that's why metaphorically a lot of
(33:15):
Buddhist temples have many, many steps going up very high.
It's because in order to see from the viewpoint of
the sky, it takes one tiny step and then another
tiny step and another tiny step in another.
Speaker 2 (33:27):
Yeah, yeah, I love that. Sharon Salzburg always like just
any any moment, just return home. Yeah, it's like every second,
like if you're freaking out, if you're having a whole
panic attack, you're just like, I'll get through this second. Well, everyone,
we've Sharon Salzburg, I, when you talk about not settling,
(33:50):
are you talking about like satisficing, like the theory of
satisficing from psychology.
Speaker 1 (33:54):
Yeah, yeah, it's and it's whenever you that's the new
view knew you is like once you do some of
that mental house cleaning and you start to wake up
a little bit, And I guess I don't really like
that word. Once you start to become more aware and
you start thinking about these things, you start paying attention
to what you're thinking, what you're feeling, what your intuition
(34:17):
is telling in any given moment, you start intervening in
those moments, taking a little bit of charge you, what
will happen is that the landscape of your life will
start to look different to you. It will start to
become more apparent, It'll start to become more clear of
like what is really what does my life really look like?
And once you see that, you can see where you.
Speaker 3 (34:37):
Want it to change.
Speaker 1 (34:38):
And that's what I mean by don't settle is that
when if you have that vision of like, you know what, like,
don't deny your dreams. That's you know, let's say you
want to be the most famous podcaster in the world,
Scott Like, there's no reason for you to sit here
and think that that's not possible. Really, no, why would
(34:58):
you think that's not possible?
Speaker 2 (35:00):
I mean, okay, so maybe that's possible, but being in
the NBA that ain't possible. I mean, are there certain
goals that aren't possible?
Speaker 3 (35:08):
Yes, okay, but.
Speaker 1 (35:11):
You know there's being realistic about physical.
Speaker 2 (35:15):
La almost beat Kobe Bryant and pig and gym class
in high school?
Speaker 3 (35:20):
Is that true? Really? You guys went to high school together.
Speaker 2 (35:23):
Yeah, in middle school.
Speaker 3 (35:24):
Wow. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (35:25):
But anyway, there's certain goals. I know you have the
whole chapter on the wisdom of goals, but there are
some like when do you know what goals are unrealistic
and which ones are realistic?
Speaker 1 (35:33):
Well, I guess you'd have to think about, you know, terms,
like you said, like physical limitations. Is one be realistic
in terms of the laws of.
Speaker 3 (35:41):
Nature, you know what I mean.
Speaker 1 (35:43):
It's like, you're not going to be like, I'm going
to jump fifty feet in the air. It's like, yeah,
well that's not possible because it's physically not possible.
Speaker 3 (35:52):
You know.
Speaker 1 (35:52):
But if there's something that you know you want to do,
you should at least don't settle for not trying at all,
Like why would you just not try?
Speaker 3 (36:02):
You know?
Speaker 1 (36:03):
And it's like in the in the book, I put
kind of the thing of like if you like, the
saying goes, if you want to, you know, climb to
the top of the mountain and shoot for the stars,
like try and go really high and you'll probably land
somewhere in the middle of the mountain. But if you
don't aim that I to begin with, you know, you'll
you won't get as high as you whatever otherwise.
Speaker 2 (36:23):
Yeah, and I compliely agree with that. I mean, anything
that I set my sights on, I do put my
heart and soul into it, because you do only live once.
Speaker 3 (36:32):
Be curious. I tht you're a Buddhist.
Speaker 2 (36:35):
I'm with you on not agreeing with that. All the
rest are good, but number one and that one and
the desire one, I don't know.
Speaker 1 (36:41):
So basically half of the police.
Speaker 2 (36:44):
Correct, correct, and I will get high with a Buddha.
I would love it. Yeah. Actually, when I'm high, I
do was more attachments. I feel I feel a reduced
sense of attachment to anything. When I'm a bid.
Speaker 3 (37:07):
I feel like, why that's so funny to me?
Speaker 2 (37:10):
So you talk about letting go and finding peace, I
think that is just such a huge, huge thing. Is
that surrendering aspect? Like what does that process look like
to have you? Like personally, have you gone through that process?
Speaker 3 (37:24):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (37:24):
Yeah, I mean, you know, I think that letting go
ultimately for me, is letting go of the stories about
yourself about like who you are, who you can't be?
You know, what's capable and like if you are constantly
thinking about kind of negative things that you've experienced, you
(37:45):
can allow those to influence who you are and like
who you think you can be today, you know, and
that is can trap us a lot, you know, and
then hold us back. That's one element of letting go.
Another element of letting go is letting go of the
things that disrupt just your sense of peacefulness and joy
(38:05):
in the present moment. You know, whenever you feel an
angry reaction to something, whenever you feel stressed, whenever you
feel tension, you know, those are feelings that we should
experience for a reason. But the key is is not
holding on to them for a long time, you know,
because it doesn't really serve us. But the issue is
(38:27):
that we generally feel those feelings so rarely in terms
of a twenty four hour day cycle. We may feel
that once every couple of days or once a day
or something like that, that they hit us a little bit harder,
and therefore they stay sort of in the ecosystem a
little bit longer. But being able to recognize them as
you know, arising responses to something we're experiencing or something
(38:49):
we're thinking, recognize them as what they are, and then
align the pass through. It's really viable because it just
keeps us in, you know, a state of, as I said,
kind of joyful awareness more more frequently, and therefore decision
making is better and more clear.
Speaker 2 (39:06):
Twenty full awareness.
Speaker 3 (39:07):
I love that. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (39:08):
What's your own journey with meditation and mindfulness? Is this
a new thing for you or have you been doing
like past twenty years?
Speaker 1 (39:15):
I've been there, yeah, yeah, twenty five years.
Speaker 3 (39:18):
Yeah. Really?
Speaker 2 (39:19):
Is there a specific like branch you know that you practice.
Speaker 1 (39:24):
No total spiritual colllecticism, you know, so basically, whenever I
was a teenager, like, no one in my life system
at any no one read in my family. There were
no books, there was no Eastern Thought or anything like that,
and I really just randomly stumbled across it and became
obsessed with it because it was I've told the story before,
(39:45):
but essentially I heard someone say whenever I was like
fourteen or something like that, I heard someone say that
if they could, and this is out in public, if
they could have dinner with two people that are alive,
they would want it to be Nietzsche in Jesus, which
that sounds pretty fun, but but I didn't know who
that was. And so I was in a bookstore after
(40:08):
that and I saw the name Nietzsche on the back
of the book. I was like, Oh, there's that name. Interesting,
let me go see what that's all about. And when
I opened it up and I started reading, and I
was like, oh, this is like how I think. This
is like it's not necessarily what I think, but it's
kind of the math of like abstract conceptual, you know,
this sort of thinking. And I got really obsessed with it.
And so I obsessed on reading Western philosophy. I would
(40:28):
read for four or five hours a day easily, and
then I moved over to because some of the Western
philosophers mentioned Eastern philosophers, you know, and I started thinking, oh,
let me go figure out what this Eastern philosophy is about.
And I picked up and memory tells me, I don't
know if this is accurate, but I seem to remember.
The first book I picked up was Essays and Zen
(40:50):
Buddhism by DT. Suzuki, and I remember reading that and
just being like, wow, this is like this is what
I think or how I think and what I think.
That's cool, And I've just became obsessed with that world.
And this is in the nineties, and so this is
before YouTube, this is before Google This is before the
top ten ways to meditate.
Speaker 2 (41:10):
Self healing is self discovery.
Speaker 3 (41:12):
Who what do you mean?
Speaker 2 (41:14):
What do you mean by that?
Speaker 3 (41:15):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (41:16):
I mean basically in order for us to understand the
ways that we're going to, like, even though I don't
really like the word, but the quote unquote heal, and
that means letting go of your your your anger, your judgments,
your frustrations, your your against yourself, against other people, like
your you know, feelings of you know, just the general
(41:41):
pain and suffering that you you might carry because of
your past experience. In order to figure out what those
things are, you have to start, like opening your mind
a little bit. You have to start raising your awareness.
You have to start looking in Like so, if you're
in a relationship and you realize that you you have
(42:03):
a hard time like talking about commitment, let's say, then
normally you may get kg, you may get weird, you
may have an aggressive response to try and you know,
hold people to create a wall in the in the
relationship or whatever. But if you notice that feeling, that tension,
that wall arising whenever you start talking about commitment, then
(42:26):
you go, hold on a second, there there's something there,
and that's what the self discovery aspect is as you go,
let me look inward and let me actually sit and
explore that feeling that and it's like, okay, every time
we talk about commitment, there is this tension, there's this
and what is that tension? Let me just label it,
(42:46):
like there's tension, now, what is it? What's maybe? What's
what else am I feeling? Almost like smelling a glass
of wine, It's like what else? What else do I
smell in there? It's like, ah, there's fear, and there's
all on a second, there's pain. There's like pain underneath
that where's that coming from? And then you can go
back and you look and like, ah, well my parents
(43:07):
got divorced from what I was for and it was
very destructive and so you did. Yeah, I'm just using
my own examples.
Speaker 3 (43:15):
So you're like.
Speaker 1 (43:17):
So you're like, all right, So that's why one of
the reasons I'm probably having this reaction is because I'm
scared that's going to happen here. Yeah, And you know,
and that's just one of many, many examples. But it's
kind of how it can work. Is when you notice
these these painful emotions or reactions happening in your life
starting to or it doesn't have to be that. I
(43:39):
can you also be limiting thoughts, you know, self negative,
self talk, any of these things, intrusive thoughts, noticing them
when they come and start moving around, putting some space
around them, starting questioning and kind of really understanding what
they are and where they're come from. And then through
that you're able to actually work with it, because then
you know what you're dealing with. It's like if you
(44:01):
went into a doctor's office and you're like, I'm in pain,
like where and you're like, I don't know. They're like, well,
I can't really help you. But if you're like I
cut my leg open, then they can help. It's the
same type of thing.
Speaker 2 (44:12):
This, I mean, the major, the major kind of vibe
or spirit of this book is really you know, you
can be more, You're capable more you. That's obviously a
message that people do want. You did listen to your
people of what they want. What are your thoughts about
the whole manifestation space? Are there things in the self
help industry that you're in the industry, but are the
(44:34):
things that that you roll your eyes at that are
like maybe you feel like are two out there where
are the limits here on what we can become.
Speaker 1 (44:44):
I don't really roll my eyes. Well let's say I
roll my eyes at everything and nothing like that. I
like that, But I wouldn't want to short change something
that's working for someone else just because it's not useful
for me.
Speaker 3 (44:59):
That's fair, I'll put it that way.
Speaker 1 (45:01):
In terms of you know, what I don't like are
things that lead people down paths of self delusion. And
that just means getting further away from objective reality and
objective truth as opposed to closer to it, because in
order to make change, you have to close the gap
(45:23):
between your perception of reality and what's really happening, because
only then can you take action that affects real life
whenever you're actually seeing what's going on, and that's how
you create actual change. Right, So you mentioned manifestation. Do
I think there is a cosmic sense in one definition
(45:45):
of like if you imagine the classic you know example,
I'm just going to imagine a Ferrari in my driveway
and that's going to appear, that's preposterous. But what isn't
preposterous in terms of manifestation is setting a clear goal
and an intention in your mind and going like, Okay,
I've identified what I want. Now let me start.
Speaker 3 (46:08):
Working towards that. That work.
Speaker 1 (46:11):
That's by definition, that's a form of manifestation. If you're
like if I was like I want to write a book. Okay,
I want to write a book. Let me start figuring
out how to get there. I'm going to make this
happen for myself.
Speaker 2 (46:23):
Yeah, I love talking to people like you. You know,
on this podcast, we've all sorts of different kinds, right,
we have like buttoned up scientists, right, PhDs. You know,
everything's like all eyes are dotted. Everything single thing they're
saying is like I'm citing this Paide journal, PAIP reviewed paper.
But like, I love talking to people like you as
well on my podcast because it's kind of hard to
(46:44):
argue that you're not successful. You have clearly reached a
certain level of personal success. It's something you wanted and
so being able to kind of reverse engineer that is
so fastating to me, and I know it's fasting to
our audience as well. Like, you know, even when I
knew you talked to you years ago, you weren't where
(47:05):
you are right now. So like to watch I freaking
love watching people grow. I thought that must be like
my favorite thing. And it's like, as a self actualization coach,
I'm kind of on brand saying that. Yeah, but with
friends with people like you, I'm so proud of you.
That was my first feeling when I when someone reintroduced us.
So you clearly have cultivated the right mindsets, the right
(47:30):
ways of being. It sounds like a lot of it
is listening. A lot of it is is not talking
so much, and I think that can be tough in
the self help space. It seems like everyone's just trying
to get the louder sort of my five things, no, no,
my five things, no five?
Speaker 3 (47:45):
Do you know what I mean? Like, oh yea, it's ridiculous.
Speaker 2 (47:47):
It sounds like you really took a step back right
in this process just to listen.
Speaker 1 (47:51):
Yeah, I poke fun of the my five things in
the book too.
Speaker 3 (47:55):
You know.
Speaker 1 (47:55):
It's like, sure that that can be useful to have
like five things, but that's not very deep, you know.
And also another problem with self help culture, like kind
of on the area that you're talking about is like,
this is why I did it backwards, like I reversed
in junius, because a lot of people say, like, here
are the ten things that you need. Here are the
five things that you need to feel happiness. Here are
(48:16):
the five things look for in a partner. Here are
five ways to do this. It's like, I mean, those things,
what are they really doing for people who are reading that?
And let's see the disservice that they're doing is if
like a person sees that and they're like, well, I
guess I'm not really doing those things. Like, so I
must be doing something wrong, you know what I mean?
Speaker 3 (48:38):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (48:38):
For sure.
Speaker 3 (48:39):
You feel like a loser if you're not doing this
right right?
Speaker 2 (48:43):
You talk about developing a cultivating appetite for possible things.
Can you elaborate a little bit on that? How can I?
How can I? How can we all develop that appetite?
Speaker 1 (48:53):
I'd love to ye. Are you a Bertrand Russell fan?
Speaker 2 (48:57):
I'm not not really. Oh really, I'm not not a thing.
Speaker 3 (49:00):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (49:01):
They don't have to tell me what I should be.
Speaker 1 (49:02):
I thought you were going to have some shades shade.
Speaker 2 (49:06):
I'm not that well versed.
Speaker 3 (49:07):
Yeah, okay. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (49:09):
In his book Conquest of Happiness, which is kind.
Speaker 3 (49:12):
Of the f I should read that. Oh you should
have you ever? Have you ever? It's nice?
Speaker 1 (49:15):
It's like the first. It's from the nineteen thirties, twenties
and thirties, and it's kind of the first like legit
self help book, and it's really solid, and you know,
he's obviously quite a strong thinker, so it's not there's
no no nonsense in there. But yeah, one of the
things he talks about is cultivating an appetite for possible things,
(49:39):
and that stuck with me for a long time. You know,
I read that book twenty years ago and I still
have had that in my brain. I've wanted to use
it somewhere, and that's why I named the last chapter
of that And ultimately it's like he talks about and
this is I go into this in the book as well,
is cultivating what he calls.
Speaker 3 (49:56):
Like zest in the time.
Speaker 1 (49:58):
And that is that's why our conversation has been so
fragmented in all the place. It's because we've been overflowing
with zests.
Speaker 2 (50:06):
Yes, that's true, that's true.
Speaker 3 (50:08):
Yeah, yeah, totally.
Speaker 1 (50:13):
It's the energy. It's like life energy. It's like when
if you're just overflowing with joy, excitement, curiosity, you know,
and a feeling of flowing forward into the world. Like
that's what it is. Right, So how do you cultivate
that more of that.
Speaker 3 (50:29):
Feeling you know?
Speaker 1 (50:31):
Yeah yeah, So it is looking for and it doesn't
matter what other people think, but like, what are the
things in life just in watching Again, this is more
kind of mindful territory here of just watching in life.
What is something that you do that makes you feel alive?
That could be cooking. When you cook, you feel like
(50:52):
you get that little extra magical sense of energy. It
just makes you happy. It perks you up, even if
you're tired. Maybe it's you know, gardening, maybe it's teaching
you know somewhere. Maybe for us clearly it's having these
conversations because but it just rows both of us to
this place of fun energy. Yeah me too, you know,
(51:12):
me too. And so it's like looking for those things
in your life. And then when you notice those things
that give you that little raise of like more life,
then like doing something about it, going like you know what,
I'm going to do that more and more. I'm going
to make this a feature part of my life and
make it something really important. The more that you do
that then and this is actually leads to the path
(51:36):
of happiness because as you start intentionally putting more energy
into the things in life that make you feel that
feeling of a liveness. You start cultivating meaning. And you're
cultivating meaning because you're putting this energy into this, it's
creating this kind of history, you know, for you to
look back on. You get better at this thing, it
(51:58):
becomes important because you've put time to it, and that
starts to create a sense of purpose because now you're like,
if cooking was sort of like, oh this is fun.
When I do it, I feel good, you start putting
energy into it, doing it more, getting better at it,
really getting a deep sense of that feeling. Then six
months later, now your self identification changes to where you're like,
(52:20):
I'm a pretty good chef all of a sudden, and
now you're good at something and there's something featured in
your life that actually gives you that feeling of liveness.
Now you have purpose and fulfillment. And once you have
purpose and fulfillment and continue in that cycle, you then
start to arrive at this place where you get what
I like to call the after glow. Happiness is an
(52:42):
afterglow of meaningfulness, purpose and fulfillment. It's not something you get,
it's what happens after you have those things, And that's
how you cultivate the appetite for possible things, is you
find what gives you that feeling that makes you feel
more alive, intentionally put more energy to it, and you'll
see that the more that you do that, the more
that you continue to feel confident, you know, in a
(53:05):
life with meaning.
Speaker 2 (53:07):
It sounds like a lot of that takes self trust
and that's a process. Did you Was that a process
for you or because it's because you had to be
so independent as at a young kid, you actually developed
those skills really really early.
Speaker 1 (53:22):
I did develop those skills early. Yeah, but it still
doesn't mean like just because I developed it really doesn't
mean they don't didn't continue to take a lot of work,
you know, and for everyone it's like you just it's
a process, and it's like we've talked about it, we've
covered but a little bit in this in this conversation already,
but so much of it is like starting small, what's
(53:42):
something that you can do? And like that example with
your loser earlier, it's like dress a little bit better,
Like okay, now you feel a little bit better. Cool,
there's a little bit of self trust. You did a thing, Yeah,
you did a thing. Now, maybe you want to go
get a degree or something, or you want to start
your own business, like start working towards that you come
(54:02):
up with the name you read about like, you know,
but whatever the field that you want to be in,
you're building a little bit more expertise, a little bit
more trust that what you can service the feeling that
you're you know, your intuition is is telling you to
go in in that direction you can you can start
to do that, and that's how you start to build
(54:24):
that more and more, and it just gets bigger and
bigger and bigger as you, over time continue to do
that because it just keeps scaling the confidence that you're
able to follow through with what arises and what's meaningful
to you.
Speaker 2 (54:38):
Oh that's nicely the nicest place to stop, probably anything
you want to kind of pitch, you know, besides your
book obviously. Are you still doing your podcast?
Speaker 3 (54:46):
Yeah? Yeah?
Speaker 2 (54:46):
Oh right on how many years? Says have you been
doing that now?
Speaker 3 (54:50):
Ten? Dude? Yeah, we're like the O G right yeah wow.
Speaker 2 (54:58):
Well I'm so proud of you, as I've always said,
and you know, thanks so much for coming here, inspiring me,
inspiring everyone to think bigger you know, you've inspired me
to think bigger too.
Speaker 3 (55:09):
I love that.
Speaker 2 (55:10):
Thank you so much.
Speaker 1 (55:11):
It's it's it's really been a pleasure. It's an honor,
and I'm grateful to be here with you. Man, So
thank you for having me.
Speaker 2 (55:16):
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (55:19):
M
In order to make change, you have to close the
gap between your perception of reality and what's really happening,
because only then can you take action that affects real life.
Speaker 2 (00:22):
Today, we welcome Corey Allen to the show. Corey is
an author, podcast host, and social media influencer from Austin, Texas.
Corey writes daily thoughts on mindfulness and mental clarity for
his large Instagram following and I mean really large, reaching
over a million people a week. On his podcast, he
discusses how to live better through teachings on mindfulness, mental clarity,
and personal growth. Corey's new book, Brave New You, a
(00:45):
roadmap to believing that More as Possible, is out now,
and is the focus of our playful and informative conversation.
Corey Alan, Welcome to the Psychology Podcast.
Speaker 3 (00:58):
Sound just like me, dude.
Speaker 2 (01:00):
Your voice is amazing.
Speaker 3 (01:01):
Thanks, it's amazing. Someone tells me that every.
Speaker 2 (01:03):
Day now, does it get well if it's lower, like
it's lower since we talked last years ago.
Speaker 3 (01:08):
Or no, I don't.
Speaker 1 (01:10):
I mean it might be because it's you know, I'm
I'm forty two now, so I'm aging.
Speaker 2 (01:16):
Yeah, Well, this is the first time I met you
in person. Yeah, it's an honor pleasure. It's been really
great seeing you grow over the years as well. Like,
you know, I see you on like Instagram, I'm like, oh,
like a triple take, Like what happened to that motherfucker? Look?
Speaker 3 (01:32):
Is so glad.
Speaker 2 (01:33):
Great to have you here. And I really enjoyed your
most recent book, which is called Brave New You a
road Map to Believing that More is Possible. There's so
much in here. It's I mean it's like a kind
of like the ultimate self help book.
Speaker 3 (01:48):
Yeah, I mean you covered like everything I tried to.
Speaker 2 (01:51):
Yeah, we're like, tell me about the journey to get
to writing this book. How many years have you been
working on it?
Speaker 3 (01:58):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (01:58):
Just give me the journey?
Speaker 1 (01:59):
Yeah man, I mean so basically that's kind of the
wager is like they say you shouldn't try to make
a book that covers everything, but you know, it's like,
we'll never know if it's possible if you don't try.
And really like what I started doing, and this is
interesting because I I wanted to figure out, you know,
(02:20):
being a school a fan of perception like you are,
and studying your own consciousness, I started thinking like, Okay,
I think that I know what would be helpful to people? Right, Yeah,
that's not true, Like whatever, my perception of what's going
to be useful to people is just the narrative in
my brain about like how I see reality or.
Speaker 2 (02:43):
Do you feel like a lot of people reject when
they try to think what would be good for someone
else everyone? Do you see that in the self help
space as well? Oh yeah, talk about that's a callback
to and off the record conversation.
Speaker 1 (02:54):
You know, no names will be but one of your
favorite writers it talks about letting go is obsessed with money,
one of your favorite podcasters has a difficult time having
conversations with people close to them, and another one of
your favorite people that talks about mindfulness loves alcohol. It's all,
(03:15):
it's almost always the counterpointal weight.
Speaker 2 (03:19):
To the defense mechanims.
Speaker 3 (03:23):
Yeah, it's like.
Speaker 1 (03:24):
How why relationship coaches are single a lot of times?
Speaker 3 (03:27):
A great point.
Speaker 1 (03:27):
Yeah, So I was trying. I was I thought, like,
how can I get objective information and feedback on like
what what people in the world, you know, want to
experience and what they need, Because it's very difficult whenever
you have experienced like a school of thought or a
set of experiences that have brought some insider wisdom to
(03:49):
you to think about what your life was like before
you had those experiences. So after you've had them, you know,
everything seems apparent, but to really rewind your perception. It's
like for you, like in meditation or something, the first
time that you became aware that you had thoughts like
flowing through your mind and your observational met of mind
(04:09):
sort of turned on. And then from that point on
you've gone through life being aware of the arising mental
formations in your mind and you can notice what thoughts.
But think trying to get your perception back to what
that was like before that, it's wild, right, right? So
I was thinking, like, how can I access sort of
(04:30):
that texture of mind and figure out what those people
might need. So what I started doing as my social
media falling, like kept growing and growing, getting to half
a million and reaching a million people a week amazing,
thank you, is I started paying really close attention to
everything that I posted, the comments that people were leaving,
(04:53):
the reactions that people were having, even like the kind
of insight impressions and data impressions like what's grabbing p people,
who's sharing things?
Speaker 3 (05:01):
How much?
Speaker 1 (05:01):
What's the and I took a lot of notes, like
a ton to look at like what is like en mass,
what is the cultural need here? Like what is the
real reaction the reaction that people may not even be
realizing they're giving me because they're just responding to this
thing they're reading. But if you zoom out and look
at it all, it's like what is in the culture,
(05:22):
Like what do we need?
Speaker 3 (05:23):
You know?
Speaker 1 (05:24):
And So I took all these notes over the course
of probably like a year, and I also use that
information to then start writing to those points in my
social media, which is why it keeps growing is because
I'm figuring. I figured out, like, if you listen in
this interesting way, then you can actually speak to what
is needed right now in the times?
Speaker 2 (05:42):
Don't marketers call that pain points?
Speaker 3 (05:44):
Yeah? It is.
Speaker 1 (05:47):
And those are generally yeah, and those are I think
those are kind of they tend to seek like, I
don't know, almost sort of like manufactured. They look like money, sex, status, sounds.
Speaker 2 (05:59):
Good, I mean, I mean, I'm not supposed to say
that seeking in life.
Speaker 1 (06:05):
Hey, You're supposed to be seeking whatever the fuck you
want to be seeking.
Speaker 3 (06:08):
Good, That's what I think.
Speaker 1 (06:12):
So so I looked at all these and nomen does
sound good?
Speaker 3 (06:15):
Why why? What's wrong with that? Seriously?
Speaker 2 (06:17):
Exactly exactly.
Speaker 1 (06:19):
It's not about it's not I mean, we don't want
to go on too many tangents here, but like you know, money, sex,
and status are they're great. There's a reason why people
go after them. The key is not the thing. The
key is how you relate to those things once you
achieve them.
Speaker 3 (06:32):
That's huge.
Speaker 1 (06:33):
You know, how does it change how you see the world,
how you operate, what you do with it? Yeah, So
I took all this information and I looked at like
what would be a linear path, Like how can I
create this entry point and get to someone to basically
feeling how I feel in the world. And that's what
the book is. It's like doing this mental house cleaning
(06:55):
for the beginning of getting people aware, turning on the
awareness of their thoughts, and they're you know, self understanding
because of course that's the beginning of everything. You have
to become self aware to make any change, you know,
and then it just all goes and goes through there.
Speaker 2 (07:12):
Yeah, that's why turtles don't make too many changes in
their lives. They're so on autopilot over there, you know.
So I I love that you start with that and
you talk about how mindsets are magic, and you know,
because I'm like a big mindset a guy like I
really believe in them. And we're in a new book
(07:34):
right now that has is all about a particular mindset
I think we really desperately need in our society. But
can you tell me what you mean by the word
mindset and also what you mean by magic?
Speaker 3 (07:45):
Sure?
Speaker 1 (07:45):
So sure, So a mindset is the how you're approaching
the world, right, It's the frame of mind, the perspective
and which yeah, sure, a lens, Yeah, and it's a lens.
I think if we use lens, this is a metaphor.
We should look at you and remember that what's in
front of the lens is just as important as what's
(08:06):
behind the lens. Both of those things working together create
the picture that's in focus, you know. And so snip
that quote.
Speaker 3 (08:15):
And so.
Speaker 1 (08:18):
And so uh yeah, like so that's really where it is.
So example, if you are and here's where the magic
comes in. Let's just use myself. For example, if I'm
walking into this to meet with you in the studio
and do this recording, and I'm feeling anxious and like,
oh my god, like, how am I going to do?
Speaker 3 (08:35):
I hope I show up.
Speaker 1 (08:36):
Well, I'm going to come in here with this mindset
of anxiety, of discomfort, And what it's going to do
is it's going to then have a physiog physiological effect.
It's going to you know, release you know, adrenaline. If
I hadn't left in my body, it would release that.
It's going to change my heart rate, it's going to
change my my you know, my mental processing and all
(08:58):
this stuff. And it's not going to go well. But
if you walk in and you're like, hey, this is good,
this is friendly. They asked me to be here. I
know what I'm talking about.
Speaker 2 (09:08):
It's gonna be and you know who you are.
Speaker 1 (09:10):
You know who you are, and like, this is gonna
be fucking fun. You know that's bekaa.
Speaker 3 (09:15):
How could not be time? That's right? Yeah?
Speaker 1 (09:19):
And so you walk in and then you go like,
all right, let's have some fun here. Then the not
only does and this is where the magic happens, is
that it changes not only how you feel and how
you show up in your life, but then it changes
how we experience this moment together totally. Because if I
was in here and I was timid and like awkward
and anxious. You would be like trying to reach for it.
(09:41):
But the second I walked in, we started laughing and
having a good time. Right, So that's just that didn't
happen to me. But I'm using that as an example
of how that unfolds. But a person can look at
that and map it over to any point in their life.
They're going on an interview. You walk in and you're like,
I hope that they like me?
Speaker 3 (10:00):
Is the wrong mindset?
Speaker 1 (10:01):
You walk in you're interviewing them to make sure that
they're worth your time because you're spending forty hours a
week at some job. It's like, do I want to
do they have what it takes for me to do this?
You know, relationships, what you know, your creativity, whatever it
is that you want to be doing. It's like changing
those mindsets. Slowing down, being conscious and mindful of the
(10:22):
story you're telling yourself and the narrative that you're creating
in your mind at any given moment is how you
totally make that magic come to life and shift everything.
Speaker 2 (10:31):
Yeah, and in an authentic way. Yeah, I think sometimes
you can just not be really feeling it and then
like you adopt a mindset doesn't really feel right, and
maybe there's you know, maybe there are times where it's okay,
like you're to not put on a certain mindset, and
maybe that'd be the the unauthentic thing to do.
Speaker 3 (10:48):
I don't know, I'm just r.
Speaker 1 (10:50):
Yeah, what would be an example of that for you?
Speaker 2 (10:54):
You know? Sometimes if I am really nervous and I
have to give a keynote instead of like forcing myself
to have like just be positive mindset, I get out
on stage and I go, I am fucking nervous right now.
Speaker 3 (11:05):
Do you vocalize it to the audience thousand percent?
Speaker 2 (11:09):
Well, that relaxes me, relax to the audience, and usually
I'm fine after that. Sometimes I just have to say it. Yeah,
Sometimes I just have to not just say it, but
work through it and embody and breathe it.
Speaker 3 (11:19):
You know.
Speaker 2 (11:20):
Sometimes like the authentic experience is fine. There's nothing wrong
with being nervous. There's nothing wrong, you know, there's you know,
I'm just arguing against toxic positivity. I love this, and
I know you're not about toxic positivity.
Speaker 1 (11:35):
No, No, this is great. It was It's a really
good point. It's like I think that, you know, with
any of the stuff you can keep going upstream, you know,
And I think that's what you're talking about, is it's
like your mindset wasn't to go like, what's the what's
the issue? The issue would be you going on stage
and being nervous. So instead of like, instead of looking
at the issue and changing that, let's go upstream and
(11:56):
let's say, let's change your mindset to one that we
can work with this instead of being overwhelmed with this.
And your method of doing that is just openness and
connecting to the audience through through that, which is beautiful.
Speaker 2 (12:10):
Connection is like that's where it's at, right, Like, I
find that's the answer to everything, you know, even like
I mean everything I can't think of exception. Connection didn't
relax me. You know, activating the calm and connect system
of the brain is much much better than activating the
flight and flight and flee and the other f yeah,
(12:30):
fornicate the three yes, yes, yes, Okay. So you talk
about I mean a lot of a lot of this book.
You do talk about conscious consciousness, a state of consciousness.
I mean, that's really a big part of it. And
you talk about really getting as clear a mind as possible.
What do you mean by that, I know what. Like
we had Shane Parish on recently, you talked about clear thinking.
Speaker 3 (12:53):
What how do you like?
Speaker 2 (12:55):
What do you mean by it?
Speaker 3 (12:56):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (12:57):
Clarity is to me, it is being able to see
and be aware of the thoughts that you're having in
your mind.
Speaker 2 (13:05):
Self awareness.
Speaker 3 (13:06):
Right.
Speaker 1 (13:06):
So a lot of people that you know, I know,
you're you have a decent amount of Eastern you know
thought in your background as far as things that you're right,
you know, I think we've talked about.
Speaker 3 (13:16):
That in the point too. I do. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (13:18):
And so for me, you know, noticing I feel seen,
I tried and transcend to integrate Eastern thank.
Speaker 1 (13:26):
You beautiful, beautiful. Yeah. But you know, a lot of
that stuff is poorly translated if you read like commentaries
as a polycnon or something, and the memes of those
buzzwords that have made it into popular culture often are
very far away from what the actual original meaning was,
and they kind of taken on their own thing, and
(13:47):
that causes confusion because everyone's sort of like abstracting this
idea of whatever this meaning is. So a clear mind
is generally one that I have found is really confusing
for people because they go a clear mind that clear.
In Western language, that means empty. Empty means nothing, nothing
means mind, no mind, I should have an empty mind.
(14:09):
Like that's I can't do that, like one of these.
So then again, since the Western culture is based on
like status and achieving, then they go, I can't do that.
I'm failing. I feel bad. I'm a terrible person, I'm
a loveable my parents hate me, et cetera, et cetera,
and it goes down. Yeah, yeah, and so, and of
course it's.
Speaker 3 (14:26):
Not that bad.
Speaker 1 (14:27):
I'm just joking being hyperbolic for comedy sake, But you know.
Speaker 2 (14:32):
I live in that space of hyperbolic for comedy. That's like,
that's my like momentary experience of being me.
Speaker 1 (14:40):
Well we're long lost friends there. So so clear mind
is really it's it's having clarity to see your mind.
Speaker 2 (14:53):
I see.
Speaker 3 (14:53):
So whenever you.
Speaker 1 (14:54):
Recognize what thoughts are arising, noticing them, having some space
around them, and being able to make int internal choices
in the moment around what you're observing.
Speaker 2 (15:03):
How much does that require changing sort of stories that
you have in your head about who you are and
your place in the world.
Speaker 3 (15:10):
Yeah, I think it's huge.
Speaker 1 (15:11):
I mean I think that I mean to me I
think that letting go of that as much as possible
is really valuable because.
Speaker 2 (15:21):
Letting go of all the stories.
Speaker 1 (15:23):
I mean, I think, perhaps.
Speaker 2 (15:25):
Can I keep the one where I'm a hero?
Speaker 3 (15:28):
Yeah, definitely, definitely. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (15:31):
I think the stories about perhaps the present are good
to let go of. I like to let go of those. Yeah,
the stories that have hardened over the past can be useful.
It's a very least for just kind of reflective purposes.
But even those, I like to keep them soft.
Speaker 3 (15:53):
You know.
Speaker 1 (15:54):
This is one of the things I've found through kind
of I know it sounds weird, but studying people line,
like studying the kind of the texture of culture online,
what people are talking about, what they're responding to, the
biggest problem, the biggest thing I've seen people vocalize is
that they feel like they have this kind of concept,
(16:16):
this feeling of like God, I could just I could
improve my life, I could do this thing. It's right there,
but there's this little barrier. They just can't break through
this barrier. Everyone feels like that success is like right
out of touch, you know. And I started thinking about
like what is that, Like, what is that?
Speaker 3 (16:35):
What is that thing?
Speaker 1 (16:37):
And I think it's it kind of goes back to
some of the mindset stuff, but really is it's the story,
and it's that we get used to what we're experiencing
in life because everything is normalized for so long that
we begin to accept that for what in quotes what is,
(16:57):
and we don't we're not really care of stopping and
breaking that story and realizing, like, the possibilities of my
existence are way greater the truly anything that I want
them to be. But it's that I've gotten used to
seeing this as the limit, seeing this is like what
I'm capable of or or what's available to me in
(17:19):
life even and the normalization of that it comes over
your entire life, and that's why it's so hard to
break out of you.
Speaker 2 (17:27):
Know, yeah, I mean, how did you break out of it?
Speaker 1 (17:32):
It's a constant process. And really again that's why at
the beginning of this podcast I was talking about the
book is like I want people to kind of be
able to experience the same mindset shift that I did.
And that's really ultimately that's the story that's told in
the book. Even though I don't relate it to me,
I relate it to the person reading because I want
(17:52):
to be about.
Speaker 3 (17:52):
Them not about me.
Speaker 1 (17:54):
Yeah, but it's you know, it's a lot of trial
and error.
Speaker 3 (17:58):
It's a lot of.
Speaker 1 (18:02):
In my case, like having a you know, dysfunctional emotional
background made me very self sufficient and hyper independent. Whenever
I was very young. You know, I did start this
sort of not to get too off track here, but
I did start like playing with reality from a very
young age.
Speaker 3 (18:21):
For some reason.
Speaker 1 (18:22):
I started, like, for example, whenever I first as a
little kid, started sensing that Santa Claus was like something
was weird. I told my mom, I was like, I
want to go to talk to Santa at the mall.
So I did a little a B testing, so I
went up there, and then I said I'll go talk
to him by myself. So I went to the mall Santa,
and I told him I wanted one thing for Christmas.
(18:45):
And then when I was done, I went out and
my mom was there and she's like, what did you
tell Sandy wanted? I told her a different thing, and
I was like, we'll see it. Wait, see what shows
a scientists. Yeah, and of course we can all guess
which one showed up.
Speaker 2 (18:56):
Yeah, the thing you told Sannah, Yeah exactly, that Sannah
is real?
Speaker 3 (19:00):
Right, what happened, right, Yeah, that's it.
Speaker 1 (19:06):
But anyway, yeah, so you know, for me, it was
a lot of just I think recognizing that reality is
really like what you make of it. You know that
things aren't going to magically just turn around, but you
have to start listening to what you were feeling, what
what are you drawn towards as opposed to what you're
(19:27):
trying to force in life. You know, it's like, so
if you're like I want to you get very empathetic.
I'm not used to people that are so empathetic.
Speaker 2 (19:35):
And why you're just hanging out with the bros all day?
Speaker 1 (19:38):
I guess yeah, maybe, I guess so you're Yeah, you're very,
very very sweet guy.
Speaker 2 (19:48):
So I can't help it.
Speaker 1 (19:50):
Sweet Verry Kaufman over here.
Speaker 2 (19:52):
Okay, that's sweet better Kaufman over here.
Speaker 1 (19:57):
That's going to be the name of your soul concept.
Speaker 3 (20:00):
Love it. I love it.
Speaker 2 (20:00):
That's literally going to be my new name started starting
right now.
Speaker 1 (20:05):
It also changes the barrier to b e r ry.
You start going like, okay, well, what's like, what's some
one thing I could change?
Speaker 3 (20:13):
You know?
Speaker 1 (20:14):
Is it trying to be more well kempt is like
trying to be like, well, me let me dress better,
let me be a little bit cosmetically. You know, let's
get a facial routine going on here, let's do something.
You do one thing like that, And what that does
is it starts to build meaning and purpose because you've
seen something, You've identified something that's going to make you
feel better or that you can achieve. That's a small win.
(20:35):
It's actually something I talk about in the books is
making setting attainable goals. You set something small, you attain it.
And this is how we create meaning in life is
you find something meaningful to you that in that sense
of like, let me try and do this. You achieve
this small goal. You notice how, even in a tiny way,
it's made your life better, and not only does that
(20:56):
show you that moving forward is possible in life, but
also old self confidence by going like, you know what,
I accomplish that, and then you know, this is kind
of where I get to at the end of the book.
The more that you do that, the more that you
are able to trust your intuition instinct and that's the
root of everything. And then you go, hmm, that little
voice inside, that intuitive feeling. I listened to that and
(21:20):
it did improve. It was right I can trust it now. Yeah,
and that creates a feedback loop over weeks, months, years,
and decades.
Speaker 2 (21:32):
You're not advocating being delusional, putting on just put on
a delusional mindset, you know, actually make real changes to
your life.
Speaker 3 (21:40):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (21:41):
And there's another thing I dislike more than delusion.
Speaker 2 (21:44):
Awesome, right on.
Speaker 1 (21:47):
Three poisons, man, anger, desire, and delusion.
Speaker 3 (21:51):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (21:53):
I think the desire one is an interesting one because
I think the desire, you know, I wouldn't get out
of bed in the morning, in the in the morning
if I didn't have desires to make the world a
better place.
Speaker 1 (22:05):
Yeah, but surely you understand that that's the mistranslation.
Speaker 2 (22:08):
Yeah, they're talking about more like attachments.
Speaker 3 (22:12):
Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (22:13):
So it's like so, but also, wholesome desires are good
if you read the canon, like poly canon, like the
buddh would say, you know, like wholesome goals and desires
and wants, like that's that's great because you're cultivating more,
you know, skillfulness in your life. But it's the desires
which keep you ultimately more diluted, intermoved from presence, and
(22:37):
that wholesomeness and skillfulness is or what's bad not because
they're morally bad. It's like that's one of the things
that like living in a in a western, you know,
religious society, we apply this like weird Christian morality to
everything in Eastern thought. But really it's like, no, it's
like not if they say, you know, desire to drink
(22:59):
a bottle of urban every night, which I have, you know,
I have that desire, They're like they're like, that's not
bad morally, it's just bad because it's not going to
get you further to a place of feeling good and
ultimately free of suffering.
Speaker 2 (23:12):
Sure, I know that's what Buddhist would say.
Speaker 3 (23:15):
Here's the thing. Here's the thing.
Speaker 2 (23:16):
And I have a great, well, a good friend of
mine who's also his name is Corey.
Speaker 3 (23:22):
And I talked to him yesterday. Yeah you know Corey.
Speaker 2 (23:26):
Yeah, he's one of my best friends. And he's going
to be in my show next week.
Speaker 3 (23:30):
Is he coming here. We're gonna do a virtual okay.
Speaker 2 (23:32):
Okay, yeah, because I I challenge him on some things
and so we're gonna just hash it out next week.
Don't get me started on the Buddhist stuff, because I
feel like a lot of people talk as though like, well,
if the Buddhas said.
Speaker 3 (23:46):
It, you can't challenge it.
Speaker 2 (23:49):
And I'm just I'm the kind of person that, like,
you can't say that about anything, like if it's a cult,
it's a religion, I don't give fuck.
Speaker 1 (23:56):
Yeah, it's like if you're a person, then you got
a problem. Yeah, you know, it's well the Buddha would say,
he would say, challenge, challenge me, yeah.
Speaker 2 (24:03):
Yeah, yeah, And and and I am Buddhist.
Speaker 3 (24:07):
I follow the path of the Buddha.
Speaker 1 (24:12):
So this is my This is what's funny is like
I've studied Buddhism for twenty years. I'm obsessed with I've
read read the you know, like a bazillion translations of
poly cannon I, Patika, all all the things, right, but
I'm still not a Buddhist. I don't identify as one.
But I find it all very fascinating and useful and
I apply a lot of it to my my kind
(24:35):
of tool kit in life. But the problem is is
that in the forl Noble Truths Number one is what
I can't get on board with, you know, where it's
it's like it's basically like or I mean, in the
Eightful Paths. So like the for Noble truths. Yeah, sure,
like life is suffering, desire causes suffering. There's a way
out of suffering, and number four is the eight full
Path is the way. So the eight full Path great.
(24:57):
I love seven of the folds of the path. But
number one, where it's like basically except that reincarnation is real,
is the one where I'm like, sorry, I can't do it.
Speaker 2 (25:07):
And you're allowed to say that and still be Buddhist. Yeah,
you know, like, I don't think you should have to
agree with every single thing that a spiritual leader says
in order to respect that spiritual leader or to follow
them for the most part. Yeah, well thanks for saying
that for sure. Thanks for inmitting that. I get hung
up on the desires one. But I want to move
(25:29):
on because you have so much cool stuff in.
Speaker 1 (25:31):
Your book and I'm excited to listen to the conversation
with you and the what.
Speaker 2 (25:35):
About free will we're going to talk about. We disagree
on the free will issue. We disagree on a lot
of things, which is so interesting considering I just love
his way of being and the way he lives his life.
But it's funny how I still like disagree with some stuff.
Speaker 3 (25:49):
So totally so and that's that's good.
Speaker 1 (25:51):
And yeah, it's free will of the conversation that everyone
wants to hear but no one wants to listen to.
Speaker 2 (25:56):
Yeah, well that's very true. That's very true. Okay, so
this one's really interesting. In your book, you're talking about
how you can hurry up to slow down. No, that's
not it. That's not it. I fucked it up. You
can be quick. You talking about how you can be
quick hurry up? No, you do say be quick to
(26:16):
slow down your action. I wasn't slow enough.
Speaker 1 (26:23):
Now there's a real if I ever saw one, just
you reading that, put that on Instagram, your golden man.
Speaker 2 (26:29):
This is no funny episode?
Speaker 3 (26:31):
Yeah? Good? Are they normally not funny? They are?
Speaker 1 (26:33):
Actually I was gonna say, how could they not be?
Speaker 3 (26:35):
They usually no?
Speaker 2 (26:36):
But this is fun.
Speaker 1 (26:37):
Use words like hoot. I mean, that's just that's a
good start.
Speaker 2 (26:41):
And also, with a freaking twenty and fifty milligram chill
pill sitting on me, how can you not be?
Speaker 3 (26:46):
You know what is? This is why?
Speaker 1 (26:48):
This is one of the reasons I'm happy to come
to New York and do this with you, because you
don't get this same energy.
Speaker 3 (26:55):
And as a computer.
Speaker 2 (26:57):
No, you really don't you know.
Speaker 1 (26:58):
You gotta we gotta are more for genetic field. It's
gotta gotta get entangled.
Speaker 3 (27:04):
You know.
Speaker 2 (27:05):
So let me try this again. So you talk about
you're talking about you that you have to be quick
to hold down your reactions. What do you mean by that, Corey,
what do you mean it's tripping me up?
Speaker 3 (27:20):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (27:20):
So quick to slow down my reactions?
Speaker 3 (27:24):
Matrix.
Speaker 1 (27:25):
It is a matrix. Yeah, yeah, and it's sort of
it's working. Like the fact that you're stopping to think
about it means that it's working. He's so empathetic, it's amazing.
I need, like, I need to film that if you
meet people that are not the same level of kindness
and genuineness, I need to film you doing that and
just keep it on my phones every one so I
(27:46):
can pull it up and just have you been like, yeah,
that feels good.
Speaker 2 (27:51):
I am a coach.
Speaker 1 (27:54):
Well, I'm just gonna have some weird, like fetish coaching
session with you where you just do that to me.
Speaker 2 (27:59):
You just validating, validating except me for an hour strength.
Speaker 3 (28:03):
I love that.
Speaker 2 (28:03):
I love that.
Speaker 3 (28:04):
I could use that too.
Speaker 1 (28:05):
We'll do a validating sixty.
Speaker 3 (28:09):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (28:10):
So yeah, so being quick to slow down your reactions
is basically it's really helpful in any aspect of your life,
you know. And what I'm talking about is that we
unconsciously react to pretty much everything. Like as you're talking,
I'm reacting to what you're saying. Sure, I'm reacting to
I'm feeling. As I'm in the subway, I'm reacting to
(28:31):
the other people around me, to the noise of things.
I'm reacting to my own thoughts about stuff. If I
read an email and there's something, you know, it's a problem,
I would react. I'd feel irritated, I'd feel stressed, i
would feel like I had to do something. So every
you know, in the kind of the landscape of our
experience and in our minds, every thought, ultimately that arises
(28:53):
we will react to because of our you know, like
basically the analystic part of our brain and our evolutionary psychology.
It's like, respond to the situation. You need to respond
to nature. You have to respond to your environment, because
that could be the response could be nothing, it could
be getting out of the way of a jaguar, it
could be whatever. So, you know, if we look at
(29:14):
the ecosystem of life that people are in now, people
are scrolling on a phone's they're whatever. So everything they're seeing,
they're reacting emotionally and intellectually in some way large or small.
And so this notion of not reacting is breaking this
chain of patterned reactions that we have in our lives,
being able to put space in the present moment around
(29:37):
those so that with the goal of becoming more intentional
in your experience as opposed to being mindless and just reacting.
So someone says something to you that irritates you, rather
than just reacting mindlessly and saying something mean back or
saying something defensive. And then maybe later you think about
that moment, you post event process, and you feel bad
(29:59):
about it, or you feel vindicated or.
Speaker 3 (30:01):
Egoic or whatever.
Speaker 1 (30:02):
In the moment, you recognize what's happening, and instead of reacting,
you notice, and this gets better and better. We could
go through the minutia of this if you want. But
you notice the reaction arising, the feeling, the urge of
the body and the mind trying to serve the impulse.
You pause and create the space, and then in the
(30:23):
present moment intentionally choose to act differently. What you're doing
is disrupting the pattern of your behavior and allowing yourself
to slowly intentionally become someone new, more of the person
that you want to be in that present moment. So
if someone says something to you that's harmful, instead of saying,
you know, go fuck yourself, that obviously is bad for you.
(30:46):
It's bad for them, it's not good for you. It
keeps you stuck in embodying, feeling negative emotions, It keeps
you in the same pathway of thinking, and ultimately you're
narrowing down your reality and your viewpoint of the world.
And just stay in this, this small little pattern of
negativity if you can, in that moment recognize those feelings arise,
(31:09):
choose to act differently, and instead of being like you know,
saying telling someone go fuck yourself, being like let me,
let me like receive what they said, see like, think
about where they're saying it from, why I'm feeling this way,
and then respond in a thoughtful, constructive or don't respond
at all and just move on. What that does is
(31:30):
it disrupts that pattern of behavior. And when you realize
that your reactions to you know, other people, to situations
in life, to your own anxiety, to your own fear,
to your own sense of incapability. If you're looking at
something like a project or something you want to do,
and you're like, I'm not going to try that because
(31:51):
it's I can't do that. Any of these reactions, you know,
you can pause and notice that arising, stop and respond
to what you're feeling as supposed to react to it,
and rewrite the program of your thinking and therefore rewrite
what enfolds in the future.
Speaker 3 (32:10):
Nice.
Speaker 2 (32:11):
Nice, that sounds good. Sign me up.
Speaker 3 (32:13):
Yeah, I want to rewrite my future. Write it you
just you want to.
Speaker 1 (32:18):
You want to rewrite your present, and that writes your future.
Speaker 2 (32:22):
Right, you have this whole you have this whole section,
new view, new you. Right, So what you really think
that can I change? Can I actually change myself?
Speaker 3 (32:33):
Like?
Speaker 2 (32:33):
Can I actually like fundamentally?
Speaker 3 (32:35):
Yeah? Wow sure?
Speaker 1 (32:37):
I mean why why wouldn't.
Speaker 2 (32:38):
You be able to without the use of substances?
Speaker 1 (32:40):
Oh well, that is that's an addendum to that. No, yeah, definitely,
I have found that, you know, while substances can be helpful,
they simply they're just doorways.
Speaker 3 (32:52):
They're not answers.
Speaker 1 (32:54):
The answers really come from doing the more difficult work
of patiently observing your mind in the present. Moment and
making small changes again and again and again and over time,
that's what creates the permanent change. I agree with that
to look at it. You know, one time in deep meditation,
it hit me that that's why metaphorically a lot of
(33:15):
Buddhist temples have many, many steps going up very high.
It's because in order to see from the viewpoint of
the sky, it takes one tiny step and then another
tiny step and another tiny step in another.
Speaker 2 (33:27):
Yeah, yeah, I love that. Sharon Salzburg always like just
any any moment, just return home. Yeah, it's like every second,
like if you're freaking out, if you're having a whole
panic attack, you're just like, I'll get through this second. Well, everyone,
we've Sharon Salzburg, I, when you talk about not settling,
(33:50):
are you talking about like satisficing, like the theory of
satisficing from psychology.
Speaker 1 (33:54):
Yeah, yeah, it's and it's whenever you that's the new
view knew you is like once you do some of
that mental house cleaning and you start to wake up
a little bit, And I guess I don't really like
that word. Once you start to become more aware and
you start thinking about these things, you start paying attention
to what you're thinking, what you're feeling, what your intuition
(34:17):
is telling in any given moment, you start intervening in
those moments, taking a little bit of charge you, what
will happen is that the landscape of your life will
start to look different to you. It will start to
become more apparent, It'll start to become more clear of
like what is really what does my life really look like?
And once you see that, you can see where you.
Speaker 3 (34:37):
Want it to change.
Speaker 1 (34:38):
And that's what I mean by don't settle is that
when if you have that vision of like, you know what, like,
don't deny your dreams. That's you know, let's say you
want to be the most famous podcaster in the world,
Scott Like, there's no reason for you to sit here
and think that that's not possible. Really, no, why would
(34:58):
you think that's not possible?
Speaker 2 (35:00):
I mean, okay, so maybe that's possible, but being in
the NBA that ain't possible. I mean, are there certain
goals that aren't possible?
Speaker 3 (35:08):
Yes, okay, but.
Speaker 1 (35:11):
You know there's being realistic about physical.
Speaker 2 (35:15):
La almost beat Kobe Bryant and pig and gym class
in high school?
Speaker 3 (35:20):
Is that true? Really? You guys went to high school together.
Speaker 2 (35:23):
Yeah, in middle school.
Speaker 3 (35:24):
Wow. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (35:25):
But anyway, there's certain goals. I know you have the
whole chapter on the wisdom of goals, but there are
some like when do you know what goals are unrealistic
and which ones are realistic?
Speaker 1 (35:33):
Well, I guess you'd have to think about, you know, terms,
like you said, like physical limitations. Is one be realistic
in terms of the laws of.
Speaker 3 (35:41):
Nature, you know what I mean.
Speaker 1 (35:43):
It's like, you're not going to be like, I'm going
to jump fifty feet in the air. It's like, yeah,
well that's not possible because it's physically not possible.
Speaker 3 (35:52):
You know.
Speaker 1 (35:52):
But if there's something that you know you want to do,
you should at least don't settle for not trying at all,
Like why would you just not try?
Speaker 3 (36:02):
You know?
Speaker 1 (36:03):
And it's like in the in the book, I put
kind of the thing of like if you like, the
saying goes, if you want to, you know, climb to
the top of the mountain and shoot for the stars,
like try and go really high and you'll probably land
somewhere in the middle of the mountain. But if you
don't aim that I to begin with, you know, you'll
you won't get as high as you whatever otherwise.
Speaker 2 (36:23):
Yeah, and I compliely agree with that. I mean, anything
that I set my sights on, I do put my
heart and soul into it, because you do only live once.
Speaker 3 (36:32):
Be curious. I tht you're a Buddhist.
Speaker 2 (36:35):
I'm with you on not agreeing with that. All the
rest are good, but number one and that one and
the desire one, I don't know.
Speaker 1 (36:41):
So basically half of the police.
Speaker 2 (36:44):
Correct, correct, and I will get high with a Buddha.
I would love it. Yeah. Actually, when I'm high, I
do was more attachments. I feel I feel a reduced
sense of attachment to anything. When I'm a bid.
Speaker 3 (37:07):
I feel like, why that's so funny to me?
Speaker 2 (37:10):
So you talk about letting go and finding peace, I
think that is just such a huge, huge thing. Is
that surrendering aspect? Like what does that process look like
to have you? Like personally, have you gone through that process?
Speaker 3 (37:24):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (37:24):
Yeah, I mean, you know, I think that letting go
ultimately for me, is letting go of the stories about
yourself about like who you are, who you can't be?
You know, what's capable and like if you are constantly
thinking about kind of negative things that you've experienced, you
(37:45):
can allow those to influence who you are and like
who you think you can be today, you know, and
that is can trap us a lot, you know, and
then hold us back. That's one element of letting go.
Another element of letting go is letting go of the
things that disrupt just your sense of peacefulness and joy
(38:05):
in the present moment. You know, whenever you feel an
angry reaction to something, whenever you feel stressed, whenever you
feel tension, you know, those are feelings that we should
experience for a reason. But the key is is not
holding on to them for a long time, you know,
because it doesn't really serve us. But the issue is
(38:27):
that we generally feel those feelings so rarely in terms
of a twenty four hour day cycle. We may feel
that once every couple of days or once a day
or something like that, that they hit us a little bit harder,
and therefore they stay sort of in the ecosystem a
little bit longer. But being able to recognize them as
you know, arising responses to something we're experiencing or something
(38:49):
we're thinking, recognize them as what they are, and then
align the pass through. It's really viable because it just
keeps us in, you know, a state of, as I said,
kind of joyful awareness more more frequently, and therefore decision
making is better and more clear.
Speaker 2 (39:06):
Twenty full awareness.
Speaker 3 (39:07):
I love that. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (39:08):
What's your own journey with meditation and mindfulness? Is this
a new thing for you or have you been doing
like past twenty years?
Speaker 1 (39:15):
I've been there, yeah, yeah, twenty five years.
Speaker 3 (39:18):
Yeah. Really?
Speaker 2 (39:19):
Is there a specific like branch you know that you practice.
Speaker 1 (39:24):
No total spiritual colllecticism, you know, so basically, whenever I
was a teenager, like, no one in my life system
at any no one read in my family. There were
no books, there was no Eastern Thought or anything like that,
and I really just randomly stumbled across it and became
obsessed with it because it was I've told the story before,
(39:45):
but essentially I heard someone say whenever I was like
fourteen or something like that, I heard someone say that
if they could, and this is out in public, if
they could have dinner with two people that are alive,
they would want it to be Nietzsche in Jesus, which
that sounds pretty fun, but but I didn't know who
that was. And so I was in a bookstore after
(40:08):
that and I saw the name Nietzsche on the back
of the book. I was like, Oh, there's that name. Interesting,
let me go see what that's all about. And when
I opened it up and I started reading, and I
was like, oh, this is like how I think. This
is like it's not necessarily what I think, but it's
kind of the math of like abstract conceptual, you know,
this sort of thinking. And I got really obsessed with it.
And so I obsessed on reading Western philosophy. I would
(40:28):
read for four or five hours a day easily, and
then I moved over to because some of the Western
philosophers mentioned Eastern philosophers, you know, and I started thinking, oh,
let me go figure out what this Eastern philosophy is about.
And I picked up and memory tells me, I don't
know if this is accurate, but I seem to remember.
The first book I picked up was Essays and Zen
(40:50):
Buddhism by DT. Suzuki, and I remember reading that and
just being like, wow, this is like this is what
I think or how I think and what I think.
That's cool, And I've just became obsessed with that world.
And this is in the nineties, and so this is
before YouTube, this is before Google This is before the
top ten ways to meditate.
Speaker 2 (41:10):
Self healing is self discovery.
Speaker 3 (41:12):
Who what do you mean?
Speaker 2 (41:14):
What do you mean by that?
Speaker 3 (41:15):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (41:16):
I mean basically in order for us to understand the
ways that we're going to, like, even though I don't
really like the word, but the quote unquote heal, and
that means letting go of your your your anger, your judgments,
your frustrations, your your against yourself, against other people, like
your you know, feelings of you know, just the general
(41:41):
pain and suffering that you you might carry because of
your past experience. In order to figure out what those
things are, you have to start, like opening your mind
a little bit. You have to start raising your awareness.
You have to start looking in Like so, if you're
in a relationship and you realize that you you have
(42:03):
a hard time like talking about commitment, let's say, then
normally you may get kg, you may get weird, you
may have an aggressive response to try and you know,
hold people to create a wall in the in the
relationship or whatever. But if you notice that feeling, that tension,
that wall arising whenever you start talking about commitment, then
(42:26):
you go, hold on a second, there there's something there,
and that's what the self discovery aspect is as you go,
let me look inward and let me actually sit and
explore that feeling that and it's like, okay, every time
we talk about commitment, there is this tension, there's this
and what is that tension? Let me just label it,
(42:46):
like there's tension, now, what is it? What's maybe? What's
what else am I feeling? Almost like smelling a glass
of wine, It's like what else? What else do I
smell in there? It's like, ah, there's fear, and there's
all on a second, there's pain. There's like pain underneath
that where's that coming from? And then you can go
back and you look and like, ah, well my parents
(43:07):
got divorced from what I was for and it was
very destructive and so you did. Yeah, I'm just using
my own examples.
Speaker 3 (43:15):
So you're like.
Speaker 1 (43:17):
So you're like, all right, So that's why one of
the reasons I'm probably having this reaction is because I'm
scared that's going to happen here. Yeah, And you know,
and that's just one of many, many examples. But it's
kind of how it can work. Is when you notice
these these painful emotions or reactions happening in your life
starting to or it doesn't have to be that. I
(43:39):
can you also be limiting thoughts, you know, self negative,
self talk, any of these things, intrusive thoughts, noticing them
when they come and start moving around, putting some space
around them, starting questioning and kind of really understanding what
they are and where they're come from. And then through
that you're able to actually work with it, because then
you know what you're dealing with. It's like if you
(44:01):
went into a doctor's office and you're like, I'm in pain,
like where and you're like, I don't know. They're like, well,
I can't really help you. But if you're like I
cut my leg open, then they can help. It's the
same type of thing.
Speaker 2 (44:12):
This, I mean, the major, the major kind of vibe
or spirit of this book is really you know, you
can be more, You're capable more you. That's obviously a
message that people do want. You did listen to your
people of what they want. What are your thoughts about
the whole manifestation space? Are there things in the self
help industry that you're in the industry, but are the
(44:34):
things that that you roll your eyes at that are
like maybe you feel like are two out there where
are the limits here on what we can become.
Speaker 1 (44:44):
I don't really roll my eyes. Well let's say I
roll my eyes at everything and nothing like that. I
like that, But I wouldn't want to short change something
that's working for someone else just because it's not useful
for me.
Speaker 3 (44:59):
That's fair, I'll put it that way.
Speaker 1 (45:01):
In terms of you know, what I don't like are
things that lead people down paths of self delusion. And
that just means getting further away from objective reality and
objective truth as opposed to closer to it, because in
order to make change, you have to close the gap
(45:23):
between your perception of reality and what's really happening, because
only then can you take action that affects real life
whenever you're actually seeing what's going on, and that's how
you create actual change. Right, So you mentioned manifestation. Do
I think there is a cosmic sense in one definition
(45:45):
of like if you imagine the classic you know example,
I'm just going to imagine a Ferrari in my driveway
and that's going to appear, that's preposterous. But what isn't
preposterous in terms of manifestation is setting a clear goal
and an intention in your mind and going like, Okay,
I've identified what I want. Now let me start.
Speaker 3 (46:08):
Working towards that. That work.
Speaker 1 (46:11):
That's by definition, that's a form of manifestation. If you're
like if I was like I want to write a book. Okay,
I want to write a book. Let me start figuring
out how to get there. I'm going to make this
happen for myself.
Speaker 2 (46:23):
Yeah, I love talking to people like you. You know,
on this podcast, we've all sorts of different kinds, right,
we have like buttoned up scientists, right, PhDs. You know,
everything's like all eyes are dotted. Everything single thing they're
saying is like I'm citing this Paide journal, PAIP reviewed paper.
But like, I love talking to people like you as
well on my podcast because it's kind of hard to
(46:44):
argue that you're not successful. You have clearly reached a
certain level of personal success. It's something you wanted and
so being able to kind of reverse engineer that is
so fastating to me, and I know it's fasting to
our audience as well. Like, you know, even when I
knew you talked to you years ago, you weren't where
(47:05):
you are right now. So like to watch I freaking
love watching people grow. I thought that must be like
my favorite thing. And it's like, as a self actualization coach,
I'm kind of on brand saying that. Yeah, but with
friends with people like you, I'm so proud of you.
That was my first feeling when I when someone reintroduced us.
So you clearly have cultivated the right mindsets, the right
(47:30):
ways of being. It sounds like a lot of it
is listening. A lot of it is is not talking
so much, and I think that can be tough in
the self help space. It seems like everyone's just trying
to get the louder sort of my five things, no, no,
my five things, no five?
Speaker 3 (47:45):
Do you know what I mean? Like, oh yea, it's ridiculous.
Speaker 2 (47:47):
It sounds like you really took a step back right
in this process just to listen.
Speaker 1 (47:51):
Yeah, I poke fun of the my five things in
the book too.
Speaker 3 (47:55):
You know.
Speaker 1 (47:55):
It's like, sure that that can be useful to have
like five things, but that's not very deep, you know.
And also another problem with self help culture, like kind
of on the area that you're talking about is like,
this is why I did it backwards, like I reversed
in junius, because a lot of people say, like, here
are the ten things that you need. Here are the
five things that you need to feel happiness. Here are
(48:16):
the five things look for in a partner. Here are
five ways to do this. It's like, I mean, those things,
what are they really doing for people who are reading that?
And let's see the disservice that they're doing is if
like a person sees that and they're like, well, I
guess I'm not really doing those things. Like, so I
must be doing something wrong, you know what I mean?
Speaker 3 (48:38):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (48:38):
For sure.
Speaker 3 (48:39):
You feel like a loser if you're not doing this
right right?
Speaker 2 (48:43):
You talk about developing a cultivating appetite for possible things.
Can you elaborate a little bit on that? How can I?
How can I? How can we all develop that appetite?
Speaker 1 (48:53):
I'd love to ye. Are you a Bertrand Russell fan?
Speaker 2 (48:57):
I'm not not really. Oh really, I'm not not a thing.
Speaker 3 (49:00):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (49:01):
They don't have to tell me what I should be.
Speaker 1 (49:02):
I thought you were going to have some shades shade.
Speaker 2 (49:06):
I'm not that well versed.
Speaker 3 (49:07):
Yeah, okay. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (49:09):
In his book Conquest of Happiness, which is kind.
Speaker 3 (49:12):
Of the f I should read that. Oh you should
have you ever? Have you ever? It's nice?
Speaker 1 (49:15):
It's like the first. It's from the nineteen thirties, twenties
and thirties, and it's kind of the first like legit
self help book, and it's really solid, and you know,
he's obviously quite a strong thinker, so it's not there's
no no nonsense in there. But yeah, one of the
things he talks about is cultivating an appetite for possible things,
(49:39):
and that stuck with me for a long time. You know,
I read that book twenty years ago and I still
have had that in my brain. I've wanted to use
it somewhere, and that's why I named the last chapter
of that And ultimately it's like he talks about and
this is I go into this in the book as well,
is cultivating what he calls.
Speaker 3 (49:56):
Like zest in the time.
Speaker 1 (49:58):
And that is that's why our conversation has been so
fragmented in all the place. It's because we've been overflowing
with zests.
Speaker 2 (50:06):
Yes, that's true, that's true.
Speaker 3 (50:08):
Yeah, yeah, totally.
Speaker 1 (50:13):
It's the energy. It's like life energy. It's like when
if you're just overflowing with joy, excitement, curiosity, you know,
and a feeling of flowing forward into the world. Like
that's what it is. Right, So how do you cultivate
that more of that.
Speaker 3 (50:29):
Feeling you know?
Speaker 1 (50:31):
Yeah yeah, So it is looking for and it doesn't
matter what other people think, but like, what are the
things in life just in watching Again, this is more
kind of mindful territory here of just watching in life.
What is something that you do that makes you feel alive?
That could be cooking. When you cook, you feel like
(50:52):
you get that little extra magical sense of energy. It
just makes you happy. It perks you up, even if
you're tired. Maybe it's you know, gardening, maybe it's teaching
you know somewhere. Maybe for us clearly it's having these
conversations because but it just rows both of us to
this place of fun energy. Yeah me too, you know,
(51:12):
me too. And so it's like looking for those things
in your life. And then when you notice those things
that give you that little raise of like more life,
then like doing something about it, going like you know what,
I'm going to do that more and more. I'm going
to make this a feature part of my life and
make it something really important. The more that you do
that then and this is actually leads to the path
(51:36):
of happiness because as you start intentionally putting more energy
into the things in life that make you feel that
feeling of a liveness. You start cultivating meaning. And you're
cultivating meaning because you're putting this energy into this, it's
creating this kind of history, you know, for you to
look back on. You get better at this thing, it
(51:58):
becomes important because you've put time to it, and that
starts to create a sense of purpose because now you're like,
if cooking was sort of like, oh this is fun.
When I do it, I feel good, you start putting
energy into it, doing it more, getting better at it,
really getting a deep sense of that feeling. Then six
months later, now your self identification changes to where you're like,
(52:20):
I'm a pretty good chef all of a sudden, and
now you're good at something and there's something featured in
your life that actually gives you that feeling of liveness.
Now you have purpose and fulfillment. And once you have
purpose and fulfillment and continue in that cycle, you then
start to arrive at this place where you get what
I like to call the after glow. Happiness is an
(52:42):
afterglow of meaningfulness, purpose and fulfillment. It's not something you get,
it's what happens after you have those things, And that's
how you cultivate the appetite for possible things, is you
find what gives you that feeling that makes you feel
more alive, intentionally put more energy to it, and you'll
see that the more that you do that, the more
that you continue to feel confident, you know, in a
(53:05):
life with meaning.
Speaker 2 (53:07):
It sounds like a lot of that takes self trust
and that's a process. Did you Was that a process
for you or because it's because you had to be
so independent as at a young kid, you actually developed
those skills really really early.
Speaker 1 (53:22):
I did develop those skills early. Yeah, but it still
doesn't mean like just because I developed it really doesn't
mean they don't didn't continue to take a lot of work,
you know, and for everyone it's like you just it's
a process, and it's like we've talked about it, we've
covered but a little bit in this in this conversation already,
but so much of it is like starting small, what's
(53:42):
something that you can do? And like that example with
your loser earlier, it's like dress a little bit better,
Like okay, now you feel a little bit better. Cool,
there's a little bit of self trust. You did a thing, Yeah,
you did a thing. Now, maybe you want to go
get a degree or something, or you want to start
your own business, like start working towards that you come
(54:02):
up with the name you read about like, you know,
but whatever the field that you want to be in,
you're building a little bit more expertise, a little bit
more trust that what you can service the feeling that
you're you know, your intuition is is telling you to
go in in that direction you can you can start
to do that, and that's how you start to build
(54:24):
that more and more, and it just gets bigger and
bigger and bigger as you, over time continue to do
that because it just keeps scaling the confidence that you're
able to follow through with what arises and what's meaningful
to you.
Speaker 2 (54:38):
Oh that's nicely the nicest place to stop, probably anything
you want to kind of pitch, you know, besides your
book obviously. Are you still doing your podcast?
Speaker 3 (54:46):
Yeah? Yeah?
Speaker 2 (54:46):
Oh right on how many years? Says have you been
doing that now?
Speaker 3 (54:50):
Ten? Dude? Yeah, we're like the O G right yeah wow.
Speaker 2 (54:58):
Well I'm so proud of you, as I've always said,
and you know, thanks so much for coming here, inspiring me,
inspiring everyone to think bigger you know, you've inspired me
to think bigger too.
Speaker 3 (55:09):
I love that.
Speaker 2 (55:10):
Thank you so much.
Speaker 1 (55:11):
It's it's it's really been a pleasure. It's an honor,
and I'm grateful to be here with you. Man, So
thank you for having me.
Speaker 2 (55:16):
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (55:19):
M
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