January 3, 2024 • 44 mins
A woman in deep breakdown with her mother for over the past decade calls Iyanla to vent about the frustration and anxiety she feels about the relationship. But after hearing the full story, Iyanla gets to the truth: The caller doesn’t see her mother as a woman first, and together they get to the raw, emotional healing.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:02):
I am a Yamla. I had a baby daddy relationship.
I spent time in a relationship with a married man.
I had to learn the skills and tools required to
make my relationships healthy, fulfilling and loving. Welcome to the
R Spot, a production of Shondaland Audio in partnership with iHeartRadio.
(00:36):
Greetings and welcome to the our Spot, the place we
come to talk about, to examine, to explore, hopefully, to
heal and uplift relationships, all kinds of relationships. I am
young La van Zant. Today we're talking about what I
(00:58):
think is one of the most sacred, it yet complicated
relationships that we encounter as human beings. And that's the
relationship between mother and daughter. I had two daughters. I've
lost both of them. When I think about my relationships
with them, my relationship with my oldest daughter, Jamia was
(01:22):
probably one of the most fulfilling, loving, sacred relationships in
my life, or at least that's what I thought until
she passed on and I read her journals, and what
I realized was that she was having a relationship with
me that I was totally unaware of, and I was
(01:44):
having a relationship with her that she didn't experience. Then
with my youngest daughter, who just recently passed away, I'm
real clear that we had a contentious relationship and it
took me years and years to figure out what was
the problem. She was the baby, she was spoiled, rotten,
(02:08):
she will spoil rotten, and she demanded, required and really
got more attention from me than any of my other children.
But the contention in our relationship I discovered was that
she represented the part and parts of me that I
(02:31):
couldn't see, didn't want to see, never accepted about myself,
and projected on to her the thing she needed to
do to correct herself when I hadn't corrected those things
in me. And once ide got that and I began
(02:54):
to shift, unfortunately it was too late. There was so
much damage done in our relationship. Her experience of me
had been going on for so long until she was
unable or unwilling to shift. Because you know, we get
into a habit of seeing people a certain way, and
(03:16):
even when they change, we still see them as the
way they were instead of the way they are. So
we got along, We didn't fight, We got along, but
it was really really difficult. It was really challenging, and
I know I'm not alone. I know there are hundreds
(03:37):
of thousands of mothers and daughters who are just at odds,
who just have contention.
Speaker 2 (03:46):
And what I.
Speaker 1 (03:47):
Always say to moms is, no matter what happens or
how it happens, it's going to end up in your lap.
And they don't understand that children all children. But as women,
it's really really important that we understand that our daughters
bring to life our subconscious issues. Our daughters bring to
(04:13):
life our subconscious issues, and they show us who we
are and who we're not, and then they experience it
the way they experience it. And as moms we have
to take the high road, and very often we are
so hurt, so busy trying to control or fix or
(04:38):
change our daughters till we don't do the inner work
required to heal the relationship. That wasn't my case. I
did the inner work, and my daughter just had a
habit of seeing and experiencing me a certain way. She
(04:58):
was my baby girl, and I loved her. I loved
her with all my heart. I still love her, and
now that she's not in the body, I want to
say we have a much better relationship. But you don't
have to wait till then, moms and daughters, because I
(05:18):
think what daughters forget is that before your mom was
your mother, she was a woman. She was a little girl,
and she has a story, and she has issues, and
she has challenges. And so instead of seeing her as
just your mother with your requirements and demands and judgments,
(05:43):
remember she's a woman who was a little girl, who
has a history and a story that determines how she's
going to show up in your life. So today we
have a divine opportunity to take a look at the
sacredness and the challenges that go on in a relationship
(06:07):
between mother and daughter. So I'm going to take a
deep breath because what I know as a coach and
as a minister is my guests today are bringing my
issues right up in my face. So hopefully, hopefully I
(06:28):
can give them what I have. I can give them
what I needed, I can give them what I learned
from a place of love and compassion. So let's get started. Greetings, beloved,
and welcome to the R Spot. Today we are talking
about a sacred and complicated relationship, the one that exists
(06:52):
between mothers and daughters. So what do you bring into
the table today.
Speaker 3 (06:57):
I've never been close to my mother. I've never had
a relationship with my mother and my father perfect. My
mother never had anything. He's gone years about talking with
our longest find being four years. I'm thirty three. So basically,
I've been listening to your podcast and I've learned that
(07:19):
I don't know how to be in relationship with my mother.
I've tried, I've tried counseling, but what I've realized is
I do not like her as a person. I've also
learned that that means that I don't like parts of myself.
But I'm trying to figure out how do I move
forward in a relationship with somebody who I feel like
is always negative and they talked about everybody like there's
(07:40):
really nothing positive that I can say about my mom,
and I don't like that. But I'm just trying to
figure out, like, how do I move forward in a
relationship with her. Not to mention she just got diagnosed
with cancer last year, and then just this July, when
I stopped talking to her again, she got into another accident.
Now she can't walk, and the family was trying to
pressure on me to go take care of her. And
(08:02):
it just was a lot. So I'm just trying to
figure out how to move forward.
Speaker 1 (08:06):
Wow. I find it interesting that you say you've always
had a strange relationship with her. Take me back as
far as you can to when you realize that your
relationship with her was strained.
Speaker 3 (08:21):
The furthest back that I can't remember is about seven
years old when we moved into our house. The way
that it was was my mom would come home and
go straight to her room and smoke and drink. My
stepdad would take care of us, He would do things
with us. But I literally never had a relationship with her.
And if she was talking to us, she was yelling
at us. I have two brothers, That's why I say us.
(08:42):
She was just yelling at us or telling us we
didn't do our chores right, or if she came home
and we did our tours perfectly, but there's a pin
on the floor, we would all get beat, lined up
and beat. So it was just like I just I
never could be close to her. And now she's trying
to be in my life. But it's like it's been
years and years of torture and now she's trying to
act like nothing happened. And I should just be her friend.
I'm just like I can't like you know, I can't
(09:04):
open up to you. I don't trust you.
Speaker 1 (09:06):
You said years of torture. What does that mean?
Speaker 3 (09:11):
It's funny because I actually found a note yesterday. So
in this note, I broke down that she took my
birthdays away from me for dumb reasons, like to pend
on the floor. She would just say, you can't have
a birthday this year. She would come home and yell
at us. She would constantly put me on punishment. I
never got praised for anything. I only got things pointed
out if they were wrong. I was an ab suit
and nothing was ever. I never had any problems. She
(09:32):
would hold money over my head to try to control me,
and that's why that's when I first I found my
first form of independence when I was nineteen, because I
finally started making my own money. She couldn't control me anymore,
and I was the first one of all three kids
who broke free of her control. Basically, she would hit
me all the time. I personally felt like she hated me.
She told me she did it when we went to counseling,
(09:53):
but I felt like she hated me because she hates
my dad, and I looked like my dad, and I
act like my dad.
Speaker 1 (09:57):
There it is right there, right there. Wait a minute,
Wait a minute, Wait a minute. Take a breath, Take
a breath. Wow, m tell me what's going on right there,
right there? What's happening for you? Right now?
Speaker 3 (10:13):
I'm about to cry, but.
Speaker 1 (10:15):
Don't run away from it. Sit in it for a minute,
and let's get that together. Because I was going to
ask you. I heard you say your stepdad took care
of you. Your dad didn't, So your mom hated your dad. Yeah,
as a young as a young girl, you don't remember
having closeness nurturing from her. She would go in her
(10:39):
room and smoke and drink. No closeness, no communication, no rewards,
no affirmation from her.
Speaker 3 (10:50):
Yep.
Speaker 1 (10:51):
Yeah, And that continued until you became a teenager. And
what did you tell yourself about out why she treated
you like that?
Speaker 3 (11:02):
I just told myself my mom treated me poorly because
she's crazy. Because it logically didn't make sense. I had
a's and b's, I did all my chords. When I
would go to my dad or my grandmaself, I never
got whooping. It was only with her, so it didn't
make sense to me.
Speaker 1 (11:16):
Okay, she was crazy. When did you make that decision?
How old were you?
Speaker 3 (11:20):
That's probably when I was like eight or nine. It
was very early. It was when we first moved to
the house.
Speaker 1 (11:26):
Although you say she hated your dad or maybe things
happened in her relationship as a woman, things happened in
her relationship with him that had nothing to do with you,
but that she never healed. Is that a possibility.
Speaker 3 (11:44):
Yeah, I believe that.
Speaker 1 (11:46):
I heard you say that. Y'all have gone years without talking.
What made that happen? What brought that about?
Speaker 3 (11:54):
Well, the first time was when I was nineteen. She
just she found out that I was a lesbian. I
came to Atlanta, and I already was interested in women
in Ohio, but during that time, at that time, it
wasn't as accepted as it is now, So I didn't
want to come out until I went to college, if
that makes sense. So she found out somehow, and then
(12:14):
she called me all kind of slud bidget whores sold,
gave me Bible verses. So then we then I I'm
not gonna lie. I said a Bible verse back to
her and told her that she could miss adult tree.
You know, because she was and I felt like he
was attacking me. I packed her back and told her,
were you commit adultery? And you know there's no fin
above the other, like that's in the Bible too, So
I did that and then I didn't talk to her
(12:36):
after that, and then the biggest blowout was when I
was twenty three, So from twenty three to twenty seven,
she didn't We didn't talk because I actually had a
girlfriend at that time, and I brought her to Ohio
told me to bring her to Ohio when I when
I came there, she just flipped out and I was like,
I don't even think she wanted us to come, and
she cussed me out again. And then I told her
(12:57):
that I was leaving, and she was like, I don't care,
and I'm taking off my life insurance. I mean, if
I care about the left matures. But the point is
she didn't care about was leaving, and that hurt my
feelings because I'm like, damn, you don't even care that
I'm leaving, even though I don't really like you either,
but like I would a least think you would care
that your daughter's leaving, you know. So we didn't talk
for four years and I told her that I would
never have a relationship with her ever again unless she
(13:17):
agrees to counseling with a counseling for a year. That helped.
Speaker 1 (13:21):
But it wait a minute, Your mother, your crazy mother,
who hated you, who thought you were a slut of bee,
a hole whatever, went to counseling with you. M interesting, Yeah,
Well did you ever try to reach out to her
(13:41):
in those four years?
Speaker 3 (13:42):
Never? Because she's just It's just I'm always the one
being hurt, so I couldn't.
Speaker 1 (13:47):
Did she ever try to reach out to you in
those four years?
Speaker 3 (13:51):
See, the only reason why she called me was because
my little cousin, which is her best friend's mom, she
was going through the same thing with her daughter, and
I guess it made her so she called me.
Speaker 1 (14:01):
Does it matter why she made the first move?
Speaker 3 (14:05):
No?
Speaker 1 (14:05):
So that was a twenty seven So from twenty seven
to thirty three, what has that looked like now?
Speaker 3 (14:12):
So from twenty seven to thirty two, I told her
that I really would like for her to not call
me and just text me because when she would call,
I would get anxiety, like really bad anxiety. When she
would call me, like it would just freak me out,
like every time she called, I would rather her text me,
so she didn't listen to me for the first three
years of that. She just started listening when I was
(14:34):
like thirty one turning thirty two, and then we were
able to get closer. So like all of last year,
we were able to get closer. But then this year
I got triggered again because I went to Costa Rica
four months. I didn't talk to anybody. I needed time
to myself. And while I was there in Costa Rica,
people were reaching out, including my mom. But I realize
every time my mom would reach out, I would just
(14:54):
feel like, Oh, I don't want to tap her. Oh
I don't want to talk to her. I did some
work and when I was journeying, I found out that
I don't don't want to talk to her because every
time I do, it's something negative. Every single time I
answer the phone, there's some type of immediate vent, negative vent.
And that's exactly what happened. When I got back in July.
I answered the phone for her, and as soon as
I answered the phone, it was three back to back
negative situations and I was I just got so overwhelmed
(15:17):
when I shut down, and I haven't talked her since July.
I just like I feel overwhelmed.
Speaker 1 (15:23):
We'll talk about that when we come back. Welcome back
to the R spot. Let's pick up where we left off.
How do you define negative? You said it was three
negative situations.
Speaker 3 (15:44):
Complaining talking about people, so sho. So when she calls me,
she'll say, yeah, your brother, this pasty town. Yeah, your
brother and his fucking baby mama, telling me all their
businesses if I need to know their business. And then
the next thing, again, I will talking to this guy
and he's he's this, he's but I don't want to
hear that. Like when I call my dad, it's positive,
it's uplifting. When she calls me, it's just a dump
(16:07):
of like this low vibrational conversation and it just it
drains my energy.
Speaker 1 (16:12):
And what if you're the only person she feels safe
enough to talk to.
Speaker 3 (16:17):
My brain is telling me, how could that be if
we don't even really.
Speaker 1 (16:20):
Talk like that, But somebody who stays in their room
and smokes and drinks. The communication issues that you're identifying
didn't start with you. Apparently she's had them a long time,
and if she hasn't done anything to improve them, maybe
that's the only way she knows how to communicate, and
(16:41):
maybe she feels safe enough or familiar enough to share
that with you, because you haven't created a boundary with
her and said, Mom, I don't want to hear that,
or Mom, I don't want to talk about that. Mom,
you can call me and talk about my brother. Please
(17:03):
don't do that. You haven't created the boundary, okay. And
that's because it's not the thirty three year old woman
dealing with her, it's the seven year old child. You
haven't grown up her in her space yet. Yeah, what
is your mother's story? How old was she when she
had you?
Speaker 3 (17:23):
She was twenty four and she had my brother when
she was twenty with my brother, so she got pregnant
in college. Just two different stories. Her version is she
was raped. My dad's version is she wasn't because he
knew the guys and currently on my dad's version, she was,
you know, doing what she was doing, cheating on him,
got pregnant with my brother. She lied and told everybody like,
(17:44):
oh I got raped. I don't know. I don't know,
but I know my mom is. She lies a lot.
But in my mind I kind of believe my dad
because she's I was lying, but I will say that
either way, she was young. She was nineteen and she
found out she was pregnant at like five months, so
she didn't even have much time to prepare for my brother.
My dad stepped up, even though he knew that that
(18:06):
wasn't his child, because he knew who the father was.
He stepped up. And then four years later I came.
My dad was in the military, he was gone. I
was born on a military base while he was at war.
My mom was all alone on the base in South Carolina.
So she drove back to Ohio with my grandma about
a month before I was born. So I was born
in Ohio. And then after that she met my stepdad
(18:28):
in Ohio and he's been in my life since a baby.
So I've never seen my mom and my dad together ever.
Speaker 1 (18:33):
She got pregnant in college. How did her mother respond
to that.
Speaker 3 (18:37):
I don't know how her mom responded, but I know
that my my great grandmother, which is her grandmother, which
is who was taking care of her, because my mom
also had a straight relationship with her mother. So my
mom went to Birmingham when she was sixteen, stayed with
my great grandmother. I know my great grandmother. She wasn't happy,
but she was supported her and all of my aunts
that were in Bermia, which we have a really big family.
Speaker 1 (18:59):
So my mother wasn't there for her when she got
pregnant in college and came home or whatever to have
a baby. Her mother wasn't there for her at a
critical time in her life, right, the same way your
mother wasn't there for you at a critical time in
your life when you came out. Yeah, if her mother
(19:20):
wasn't there for her at a critical time in her life,
where do you think she would have learned how to
be there for you?
Speaker 3 (19:29):
Actually, I don't. I don't not. Once we went through
Countling and I talked to my mom, and then I
talked to my grandmother, I realized y'all have the same story. Right,
So once I learned that, that completely is out of
the window. Now now I know that she couldn't even
give to me. She didn't have it. You don't even
know what it looks like or feels like.
Speaker 1 (19:46):
Well, if you know she doesn't have it, if you
know she never seen it, she didn't receive it, why
are you still expecting her to give it to you?
Speaker 3 (19:55):
I think I'm not really expecting for her to give
me an love. I I just thought, I just don't
want to be her dumping board for her negativity. Like
it's literally as soon as I answer it.
Speaker 1 (20:08):
Dump I get that. I get that, But I also
want you to consider, what if you are the person
she feels safe enough, familiar enough to share those things.
What if as a young woman she had no place
to ask questions to be nurtured or guided the same
(20:28):
way she didn't guide and nurture you. See, the thing
that I know is that children bring to life the
subconscious issues of the parents, the things the parents can't see,
don't see, can't accept, won't accept about themselves. Very often,
the children bring those to life and they live them out.
(20:52):
And if you're saying you were a good kid, a
peaceful kid, a smart kid, you knew that there was
probably a part of her she was in college that
was good and peaceful and loving, or that nobody ever affirmed.
You know, I know that she didn't do it for you,
(21:12):
which says to me, nobody did it for her. But
you stuck at seven or six, have made this about
how she treats you and not about who she is.
And when I'm hearing in your conversation you don't want
(21:33):
your mother to be who she is.
Speaker 3 (21:35):
I think there's true to that where you said I
don't want her to be herself because when I first
came well, when she first came back there on at
twenty seven, I wanted to go to counsel because I
can't deal with you if you're going to be that person.
But that is her and I tell her, yeah, I
don't accept her, ask who she is.
Speaker 1 (21:54):
Here's a pearl for clutching. Okay, don't even clutch your pearls.
Don't even just take this one pearl and clutch it
to your bosom. What if you are doing to her
the exact same thing you say she did to you.
What if rejecting her, not talking to her, judging her,
(22:15):
seeing her wrongness, not affirming her, not acknowledging her, not
looking beyond your hurt and upset, not looking at her story,
dismissing her truth. What if she really was raped because
that simply means that somebody wanted to have sex with
her and she said no. What if she really was
(22:36):
raped in her mind? But the peace that I want
you to get to love it, whether you go take
care of her or not will deal with that in
a minute. Is that you are doing to her the
very same thing you accuse her of doing to you,
which is not accepting her for who she is. She
(22:57):
doesn't accept you because you're gay. You don't accept her
because she's a wounded, broken little girl who grew into
a wounded, broken woman. Let me tell you something, if
your mother hated you, she would have never stepped foot
in the counselor's office.
Speaker 3 (23:11):
I can accept that.
Speaker 1 (23:12):
Can you accept that? Looking at your mother, you're looking
at another part of yourself. You call yourself nice and
sweet and loving. You haven't said not one nice, sweet,
loving thing about her. You have told me every single
thing that's wrong with her. Does she have nice eyes?
Does she have nice hair? Did she make you a
(23:32):
good sandwich? Yeah? Yes, she beat you or punished you
and controlled you with money. But that wasn't who she is.
That's what she did from her brokenness, her wounds and
won't personal. Wasn't even about you. People do what they
do based on who they are and the information that
(23:55):
they have at the time. And you've made her hurt,
her brokenness, her woundedness, all about her, which she probably
inherited from her mother. But you, little miss Sunshine, you
probably show her things about herself that she's never even
considered were present, and she can't see it. She can't
(24:17):
accept it, she can't receive it. And it's not about you,
it's about her brokenness.
Speaker 3 (24:23):
So if I say to her like, hey, I don't
want to talk about my brother, like I create a boundary.
If I create a boundary on everything.
Speaker 1 (24:32):
Well, first of all, you can't do that until you
grow up. You got to grow yourself up in your
mother's presence and be willing to stand with her woman
to woman. And you still get not to like her,
you know, you still get to if you wouldn't pick
her as a friend. She don't have to be your friend,
but she's your mother, and without her you wouldn't be here,
(24:53):
gay or straight, Ohio or Alabama. Where's the gratitude for that?
Speaker 3 (25:00):
What do I do that? I don't tell what to do?
Speaker 1 (25:01):
Now, take a breath, Take a breath. That's what you do.
You don't have to do anything. Let's see if we
can get you to be thirty three. We'll talk more
about it when we come back. Welcome back to the
R spot. Let's get back to the conversation. I had
(25:25):
a daughter like you who she I don't care what
I did or how I did it. It was never right.
She always saw the negative that I did because growing
up I was so dysfunctional that I infected her with
my dysfunction. And then as I healed up and cleaned up,
even though she grew up, she still saw me as dysfunctional.
(25:47):
So I heard you say that your your mother now
has cancer and she had an accident and she can't walk.
So I want you to close your eyes for a minute.
Close your eyes for just a minute, and I want
you to see your mom as you know her, to
be bandaged from head to toe like a mummy. The
(26:07):
only thing that's out is her eyes and her nose
and her mouth. Can't see her hair, you can't see
her head. You can't see her arms, her fingers, her legs. Nothing,
see her bandaged. And how would you treat her? How
would you treat her if you walked into a room
and that's what she looked like? What would you do?
Speaker 3 (26:29):
Probably give her something to eat through a straw?
Speaker 1 (26:32):
How about ask her mom, do you need anything?
Speaker 3 (26:36):
I think this is important. I don't know. I feel
like I need to give this to you. But when
I was in a Fio in July, it was the
last time I got there she called me because it
was like a week you know that call I told
you about where she dumped all of it on me
for a week. After my older brother was having a
baby shower, so I flew to Ohio and she had
an accident. That's how she ended up mouth walking. She
(26:57):
already had the cancer, was walking when she goes me
when I got there. It was the day before I
got there, she had the accident that landed her in
the hospital. And when I walked into the hospital and
she called me at the baby showers, I couldn't even
enjoy the baby shower, which kind of irritating me because
I was over here for thirty minutes she called. So
of course I went to the hospital with both my
(27:18):
brothers because we were all there. And when I walked
in and I seen her in the hospital bed, there
was a part of me that came up that was
like it was like not happy that she was there,
but it was more so like, yeah, that's how I
felt as a kid, and I felt so bad or
feeling like that, but I didn't it just came up,
like to see her in pain. Yeah, that's how I thought.
Speaker 1 (27:39):
That's a typical seven year old response. Good for you,
see see good for you. That's normal.
Speaker 3 (27:46):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (27:47):
And now you, as a thirty three year old, were
probably horrified.
Speaker 3 (27:51):
Yeah I was.
Speaker 1 (27:52):
Yeah, but that's what a kid would do. And that's
what I really want you to get. You're not dealing
with your mom as a thirty three year old, rational,
rationally minded woman. You're still dealing with her from the
fear and they're upset and their anger as a seven
year old. And that's fine, but you just have to
(28:13):
be aware of that and do something different as a
thirty three year old woman, create clear boundaries with her
and again dealing woman to woman, not child to adult.
Woman to woman. You want to come from a place
of love, honor, and respect. Ma, I can't. I can't
(28:35):
with you. I can't do me a favor. It breaks
my heart when you talk about my brother like that.
So I'm going to make a request that you don't
talk to me about my brother in that way. You
can ask me a question, you can ask me my opinion,
but that cussing him and I can't. I can't do that.
With you please, And if she doesn't have a good
(28:58):
response about that, and you say, okay, Ma, when you
call me and you talk about my brother like that,
I'm gonna end the conversation. I'll call you back later,
but we're not going to do that. I'm not going
to do that with you. That's how a thirty three
year old woman speaks to another woman. You make the requests,
you create the boundary, and then you implement the consequence. Wow,
(29:24):
and she'll forget. And every time she forgets, you remind
her you're not seven. At seven you had to stand
outside the door. At seven, she could hit you. At seven,
you said. At nineteen, when you were stepping into your
womanness that you said, Oh, she tries to control me
with money. Let me do something about this. You made
(29:44):
another choice. You stop participating in the drama. See, you
and your mother are deep in the drama. And in
the drama, there's the victim, there's the rescuer, and there's
the persecutor. And she keeps playing different roles with you're
her victim, but you want her to rescue you. Why
don't you like me? Why don't you love me? Why
(30:05):
don't you treat me? This? Way, and then she's your persecutor.
But she can only be your persecutor if you stay
the victim. And it's not you at thirty three, that's
the victim. It's the seven year old. So you got
to take care of your seven year old. And the
way we can get you to be thirty three is
(30:26):
to give that seven year old a voice and let
her talk about all of the things that she needs
to say to her mommy, because that's who's in trouble.
You fine, you, okay, it's that little girl. Can you
(30:47):
see her in your mind when you come home and
mommy's in the room drinking and smoking. So let's do this.
Let her go outside your mom's her mom's been room door.
Let her go outside her mom's bedroom door. And what
does she want to say to her mom? Let her
(31:07):
just stand there and talk to the door. Take a breath,
and I'm scared. Yeah, I'm scared, Mommy. Say that I'm scared, mommy.
Tell her what you're scared of I'm.
Speaker 3 (31:25):
Scared of her because at any moment, she could book
I'm scared of you.
Speaker 1 (31:31):
No, no, talk to her. I'm scared of you because.
Speaker 3 (31:35):
I'm scared of you because at any moment, you could
just blow up for no reason.
Speaker 1 (31:42):
How about I'm scared of the way you treat me.
I'm scared of the way you hit me. I'm scared
of the way you yell at me. How about that.
Speaker 3 (31:50):
I don't know. I don't know. I don't know what
else I can do to be a good child. Like
I just feel like a bad child, and I know
I'm not bad.
Speaker 1 (31:59):
Yeah, yeah, you make me feel bad? Mommy? Tell her?
Speaker 3 (32:08):
Do you like me? Feel bad? Mommy?
Speaker 1 (32:12):
Yeah? Confuses me and you hurt me. Yes, yes, you
confuse me.
Speaker 3 (32:21):
You confuse me.
Speaker 1 (32:22):
Tell her you confuse me and you hurt me, and
and what else? Yeah? And I just want you to
love me.
Speaker 3 (32:33):
Yes, I just want you to love me and actually
pay attention to me, like see me please?
Speaker 1 (32:41):
Yeah, you don't see me.
Speaker 4 (32:44):
Because it was paying attention and you pay attention to
the micro and I'm just in the middle.
Speaker 1 (32:54):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (32:55):
Yeah, just let her cry for a minute. Just let
her cry.
Speaker 1 (33:07):
How come you don't like me? Mommy? How come you
don't like me? Ask her?
Speaker 3 (33:15):
How come you don't like me?
Speaker 2 (33:18):
Like?
Speaker 3 (33:18):
What am I doing wrong? That's what it is?
Speaker 4 (33:22):
Like? What am I doing wrong? I just feel like
no matter what I do, I do everything. You take
care of my baby brother, Like, like, what what am
I doing wrong?
Speaker 1 (33:34):
Like you're not doing anything wrong, baby, I just don't
have it. I know you need it, I know you
want it. I just don't have it. And every time
I see you, it reminds me of what I don't have.
So I just stay behind this door. I just stay
(33:57):
here because I don't have what you need because I
never got it. I never got it, and what little
bit I had I lost. Trying to get people to
(34:21):
love me, trying to get people to make me feel better,
trying to feel better about myself. I see you, I
see you, and I don't like what I see because
I don't have it. I can't believe that something as
(34:44):
precious and beautiful as you came from me. I can't
believe that. So I try to stay away from you,
hoping that you'll get what you need forgive me. I
don't know what else to do do, but look at you.
You're beautiful, you're successful. You want me to see you.
(35:07):
I don't want you to see me. Okay, take a breath.
I want to hear it. Come on, breee, you want
to blow your nose yeah, let me blood. Okay, go
(35:28):
blow your nose. I'll wait for you. I'll hummmm is
that better? Yeah? Your little girl probably triggers her little girl,
(36:00):
and if her little girl is broken and wounded, then
it's just gonna be two little girls together. That's why
she's coming to you saying f this and this one. Now,
she's gossiping with you. That's what little girls do. She's
gossip y'all, a gossipin and you calling it negativity. That's
how she's communicating. You're stuck at seven. She's probably stuck
(36:24):
in eleven or twelve. And I just I have to
bring to your awareness, beloved, that you haven't said one
positive thing about your mother in this conversation. Not one.
So I got one more question to ask you, and
(36:45):
then we're gonna give you a prescription so you can
move forward. And I want the absolute rot gut from
the pit of your belly. Truth. Why do you want
to be in relationship with your mother?
Speaker 3 (37:01):
Because when I'm not with her, I feel like a
piece of musiness.
Speaker 1 (37:05):
Yes, yes, And now you're being asked to take care
of somebody that you don't feel took care of you. Yeah,
what a powerful, powerful blessing that is because you get
to be for her who she wasn't for you. You
(37:29):
get to be there, You get to be kind, loving, compassionate,
You get to heal up some stuff. You get to
sit with her and talk with her now the way
you didn't when you were twelve and thirteen. But if
you don't want to do it, don't do it because
you cannot do it from obligation. To do it from
(37:53):
obligation would be harmful to you and to her. You'll
be resentful, you'll be angry, you'll be mean. Don't do it.
But what if, what if her lessons, her healing, her
evolution in life is going to come from being mothered
by the person she didn't mother. What if this isn't
(38:18):
her lesson, This is your lesson, and maybe her lesson
is to learn how to receive it. Because the same
way you know she didn't take care of you, she
knows she didn't take care of you, telling you she
didn't have it to give, and how she responds to
it now it's not your business. But if you can
(38:39):
find it in your heart to be for her who
she wasn't for you, what a powerful blessing on your
life so sit with it. Sit with it and see
how it feels. But don't go into it trying to
(39:01):
get her to be who you need her to be.
Go into it being who you are and accepting her
as she is. How she responds is none of your business,
because it's going to take a great deal of humility
and surrender for her to allow you to take care
of her. She may have it, she may not. I
(39:23):
don't know, but I know all things are lessons that
our creator would have us learn. So this is your
learning curve. It's probably hers too, But I'm not talking
to her. I'm talking to you. In the book Forgiveness
(39:44):
forty Days to Forgive Everyone for Everything, I have an
entire section on forgiving your mother. If you get a chance,
get that book and do that work. You got to
forgive you your thoughts about her, your beliefs about her,
your judgments about her, and your feelings about her. Not
(40:08):
that you don't have a right to have those thoughts, beliefs,
feelings based on your experience, but to forgive them opens
you up to see things from a different perspective. What's
going to be different when you get off this call?
Speaker 3 (40:23):
What's going to be different? Is my mindset about the
story that I told myself. To be honest, I've told
myself a very horrific story, and I've repeated that.
Speaker 1 (40:33):
Story, traumatizing and over traumatizing yourself.
Speaker 3 (40:38):
Yeah, yeah, I tell that story. Is different now I
have more understanding of her positions and even my position
and my opportunity to grow.
Speaker 1 (40:49):
But here's what I want you to do, because your
seven year old still needs healing. When that anger and
that whatever it is, you know, you know what it
is comes up in you, I want you to take
a breath and tell your seven year old I got this,
because it's not the thirty three year old who's doing that.
(41:12):
So we want to take care of the seven year old.
So you almost have to remother yourself because it'll come up,
you know, as soon as she says something or does
something or tells one of her negative stories, your seven
year old is going to freak out. So within yourself
you have to say, wait a minute, baby, calm down,
(41:32):
I got this. I got this. You sit right here,
I got this, and then you allow the thirty three
year old to deal with mom. Yeah, this is a
major turning point for you because you're thirty three years old,
the dark night of the soul where you're getting a
chance to kind of rewire yourself and recreate yourself. But
(41:54):
you can't continue to re traumatize yourself. You have to
respond differently. Every time it comes up. You gotta respond differently. Okay, Yes,
let me know how you're doing. Okay, And if you go,
take care of mom. No heat, no judgment anyway, any
either way you choose, because if you think you have
(42:15):
to go, don't go. Go when you feel you can
do it from a loving space.
Speaker 3 (42:22):
Okay, Thank you so much, Anne, I really truly appreciate you,
like I'm so grateful for this God. Thank you, and
thank you for showing me myself.
Speaker 1 (42:31):
Thank you for trusting me with your story and with
your tears. Thank you. It is an honor. Take good care,
mean too. All right, bye bye. Let's be clear, there
are many mothers out there who are not who their
(42:51):
children need and want them to be, but they are
who they are, and when those children become adult, the
work is not traumatizing yourself about what your mother didn't
do or who she wasn't It's about seeing her for
who she is today, a woman with a history and
(43:14):
a story and having compassion for that so that you
can step fully into your adult self and learn how
to deal with your mother or any parent from an
adult space, not as a wounded, broken child, because no
matter what she gave you or didn't give you, you
(43:37):
are who you are today because of her. The R
Spot is a production of Shondaland Audio in partnership with iHeartRadio.
For more podcasts from Shondaland Audio, visit the iHeartRadio app,
Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite The
(44:00):
Shells
I am a Yamla. I had a baby daddy relationship.
I spent time in a relationship with a married man.
I had to learn the skills and tools required to
make my relationships healthy, fulfilling and loving. Welcome to the
R Spot, a production of Shondaland Audio in partnership with iHeartRadio.
(00:36):
Greetings and welcome to the our Spot, the place we
come to talk about, to examine, to explore, hopefully, to
heal and uplift relationships, all kinds of relationships. I am
young La van Zant. Today we're talking about what I
(00:58):
think is one of the most sacred, it yet complicated
relationships that we encounter as human beings. And that's the
relationship between mother and daughter. I had two daughters. I've
lost both of them. When I think about my relationships
with them, my relationship with my oldest daughter, Jamia was
(01:22):
probably one of the most fulfilling, loving, sacred relationships in
my life, or at least that's what I thought until
she passed on and I read her journals, and what
I realized was that she was having a relationship with
me that I was totally unaware of, and I was
(01:44):
having a relationship with her that she didn't experience. Then
with my youngest daughter, who just recently passed away, I'm
real clear that we had a contentious relationship and it
took me years and years to figure out what was
the problem. She was the baby, she was spoiled, rotten,
(02:08):
she will spoil rotten, and she demanded, required and really
got more attention from me than any of my other children.
But the contention in our relationship I discovered was that
she represented the part and parts of me that I
(02:31):
couldn't see, didn't want to see, never accepted about myself,
and projected on to her the thing she needed to
do to correct herself when I hadn't corrected those things
in me. And once ide got that and I began
(02:54):
to shift, unfortunately it was too late. There was so
much damage done in our relationship. Her experience of me
had been going on for so long until she was
unable or unwilling to shift. Because you know, we get
into a habit of seeing people a certain way, and
(03:16):
even when they change, we still see them as the
way they were instead of the way they are. So
we got along, We didn't fight, We got along, but
it was really really difficult. It was really challenging, and
I know I'm not alone. I know there are hundreds
(03:37):
of thousands of mothers and daughters who are just at odds,
who just have contention.
Speaker 2 (03:46):
And what I.
Speaker 1 (03:47):
Always say to moms is, no matter what happens or
how it happens, it's going to end up in your lap.
And they don't understand that children all children. But as women,
it's really really important that we understand that our daughters
bring to life our subconscious issues. Our daughters bring to
(04:13):
life our subconscious issues, and they show us who we
are and who we're not, and then they experience it
the way they experience it. And as moms we have
to take the high road, and very often we are
so hurt, so busy trying to control or fix or
(04:38):
change our daughters till we don't do the inner work
required to heal the relationship. That wasn't my case. I
did the inner work, and my daughter just had a
habit of seeing and experiencing me a certain way. She
(04:58):
was my baby girl, and I loved her. I loved
her with all my heart. I still love her, and
now that she's not in the body, I want to
say we have a much better relationship. But you don't
have to wait till then, moms and daughters, because I
(05:18):
think what daughters forget is that before your mom was
your mother, she was a woman. She was a little girl,
and she has a story, and she has issues, and
she has challenges. And so instead of seeing her as
just your mother with your requirements and demands and judgments,
(05:43):
remember she's a woman who was a little girl, who
has a history and a story that determines how she's
going to show up in your life. So today we
have a divine opportunity to take a look at the
sacredness and the challenges that go on in a relationship
(06:07):
between mother and daughter. So I'm going to take a
deep breath because what I know as a coach and
as a minister is my guests today are bringing my
issues right up in my face. So hopefully, hopefully I
(06:28):
can give them what I have. I can give them
what I needed, I can give them what I learned
from a place of love and compassion. So let's get started. Greetings, beloved,
and welcome to the R Spot. Today we are talking
about a sacred and complicated relationship, the one that exists
(06:52):
between mothers and daughters. So what do you bring into
the table today.
Speaker 3 (06:57):
I've never been close to my mother. I've never had
a relationship with my mother and my father perfect. My
mother never had anything. He's gone years about talking with
our longest find being four years. I'm thirty three. So basically,
I've been listening to your podcast and I've learned that
(07:19):
I don't know how to be in relationship with my mother.
I've tried, I've tried counseling, but what I've realized is
I do not like her as a person. I've also
learned that that means that I don't like parts of myself.
But I'm trying to figure out how do I move
forward in a relationship with somebody who I feel like
is always negative and they talked about everybody like there's
(07:40):
really nothing positive that I can say about my mom,
and I don't like that. But I'm just trying to
figure out, like, how do I move forward in a
relationship with her. Not to mention she just got diagnosed
with cancer last year, and then just this July, when
I stopped talking to her again, she got into another accident.
Now she can't walk, and the family was trying to
pressure on me to go take care of her. And
(08:02):
it just was a lot. So I'm just trying to
figure out how to move forward.
Speaker 1 (08:06):
Wow. I find it interesting that you say you've always
had a strange relationship with her. Take me back as
far as you can to when you realize that your
relationship with her was strained.
Speaker 3 (08:21):
The furthest back that I can't remember is about seven
years old when we moved into our house. The way
that it was was my mom would come home and
go straight to her room and smoke and drink. My
stepdad would take care of us, He would do things
with us. But I literally never had a relationship with her.
And if she was talking to us, she was yelling
at us. I have two brothers, That's why I say us.
(08:42):
She was just yelling at us or telling us we
didn't do our chores right, or if she came home
and we did our tours perfectly, but there's a pin
on the floor, we would all get beat, lined up
and beat. So it was just like I just I
never could be close to her. And now she's trying
to be in my life. But it's like it's been
years and years of torture and now she's trying to
act like nothing happened. And I should just be her friend.
I'm just like I can't like you know, I can't
(09:04):
open up to you. I don't trust you.
Speaker 1 (09:06):
You said years of torture. What does that mean?
Speaker 3 (09:11):
It's funny because I actually found a note yesterday. So
in this note, I broke down that she took my
birthdays away from me for dumb reasons, like to pend
on the floor. She would just say, you can't have
a birthday this year. She would come home and yell
at us. She would constantly put me on punishment. I
never got praised for anything. I only got things pointed
out if they were wrong. I was an ab suit
and nothing was ever. I never had any problems. She
(09:32):
would hold money over my head to try to control me,
and that's why that's when I first I found my
first form of independence when I was nineteen, because I
finally started making my own money. She couldn't control me anymore,
and I was the first one of all three kids
who broke free of her control. Basically, she would hit
me all the time. I personally felt like she hated me.
She told me she did it when we went to counseling,
(09:53):
but I felt like she hated me because she hates
my dad, and I looked like my dad, and I
act like my dad.
Speaker 1 (09:57):
There it is right there, right there. Wait a minute,
Wait a minute, Wait a minute. Take a breath, Take
a breath. Wow, m tell me what's going on right there,
right there? What's happening for you? Right now?
Speaker 3 (10:13):
I'm about to cry, but.
Speaker 1 (10:15):
Don't run away from it. Sit in it for a minute,
and let's get that together. Because I was going to
ask you. I heard you say your stepdad took care
of you. Your dad didn't, So your mom hated your dad. Yeah,
as a young as a young girl, you don't remember
having closeness nurturing from her. She would go in her
(10:39):
room and smoke and drink. No closeness, no communication, no rewards,
no affirmation from her.
Speaker 3 (10:50):
Yep.
Speaker 1 (10:51):
Yeah, And that continued until you became a teenager. And
what did you tell yourself about out why she treated
you like that?
Speaker 3 (11:02):
I just told myself my mom treated me poorly because
she's crazy. Because it logically didn't make sense. I had
a's and b's, I did all my chords. When I
would go to my dad or my grandmaself, I never
got whooping. It was only with her, so it didn't
make sense to me.
Speaker 1 (11:16):
Okay, she was crazy. When did you make that decision?
How old were you?
Speaker 3 (11:20):
That's probably when I was like eight or nine. It
was very early. It was when we first moved to
the house.
Speaker 1 (11:26):
Although you say she hated your dad or maybe things
happened in her relationship as a woman, things happened in
her relationship with him that had nothing to do with you,
but that she never healed. Is that a possibility.
Speaker 3 (11:44):
Yeah, I believe that.
Speaker 1 (11:46):
I heard you say that. Y'all have gone years without talking.
What made that happen? What brought that about?
Speaker 3 (11:54):
Well, the first time was when I was nineteen. She
just she found out that I was a lesbian. I
came to Atlanta, and I already was interested in women
in Ohio, but during that time, at that time, it
wasn't as accepted as it is now, So I didn't
want to come out until I went to college, if
that makes sense. So she found out somehow, and then
(12:14):
she called me all kind of slud bidget whores sold,
gave me Bible verses. So then we then I I'm
not gonna lie. I said a Bible verse back to
her and told her that she could miss adult tree.
You know, because she was and I felt like he
was attacking me. I packed her back and told her,
were you commit adultery? And you know there's no fin
above the other, like that's in the Bible too, So
I did that and then I didn't talk to her
(12:36):
after that, and then the biggest blowout was when I
was twenty three, So from twenty three to twenty seven,
she didn't We didn't talk because I actually had a
girlfriend at that time, and I brought her to Ohio
told me to bring her to Ohio when I when
I came there, she just flipped out and I was like,
I don't even think she wanted us to come, and
she cussed me out again. And then I told her
(12:57):
that I was leaving, and she was like, I don't care,
and I'm taking off my life insurance. I mean, if
I care about the left matures. But the point is
she didn't care about was leaving, and that hurt my
feelings because I'm like, damn, you don't even care that
I'm leaving, even though I don't really like you either,
but like I would a least think you would care
that your daughter's leaving, you know. So we didn't talk
for four years and I told her that I would
never have a relationship with her ever again unless she
(13:17):
agrees to counseling with a counseling for a year. That helped.
Speaker 1 (13:21):
But it wait a minute, Your mother, your crazy mother,
who hated you, who thought you were a slut of bee,
a hole whatever, went to counseling with you. M interesting, Yeah,
Well did you ever try to reach out to her
(13:41):
in those four years?
Speaker 3 (13:42):
Never? Because she's just It's just I'm always the one
being hurt, so I couldn't.
Speaker 1 (13:47):
Did she ever try to reach out to you in
those four years?
Speaker 3 (13:51):
See, the only reason why she called me was because
my little cousin, which is her best friend's mom, she
was going through the same thing with her daughter, and
I guess it made her so she called me.
Speaker 1 (14:01):
Does it matter why she made the first move?
Speaker 3 (14:05):
No?
Speaker 1 (14:05):
So that was a twenty seven So from twenty seven
to thirty three, what has that looked like now?
Speaker 3 (14:12):
So from twenty seven to thirty two, I told her
that I really would like for her to not call
me and just text me because when she would call,
I would get anxiety, like really bad anxiety. When she
would call me, like it would just freak me out,
like every time she called, I would rather her text me,
so she didn't listen to me for the first three
years of that. She just started listening when I was
(14:34):
like thirty one turning thirty two, and then we were
able to get closer. So like all of last year,
we were able to get closer. But then this year
I got triggered again because I went to Costa Rica
four months. I didn't talk to anybody. I needed time
to myself. And while I was there in Costa Rica,
people were reaching out, including my mom. But I realize
every time my mom would reach out, I would just
(14:54):
feel like, Oh, I don't want to tap her. Oh
I don't want to talk to her. I did some
work and when I was journeying, I found out that
I don't don't want to talk to her because every
time I do, it's something negative. Every single time I
answer the phone, there's some type of immediate vent, negative vent.
And that's exactly what happened. When I got back in July.
I answered the phone for her, and as soon as
I answered the phone, it was three back to back
negative situations and I was I just got so overwhelmed
(15:17):
when I shut down, and I haven't talked her since July.
I just like I feel overwhelmed.
Speaker 1 (15:23):
We'll talk about that when we come back. Welcome back
to the R spot. Let's pick up where we left off.
How do you define negative? You said it was three
negative situations.
Speaker 3 (15:44):
Complaining talking about people, so sho. So when she calls me,
she'll say, yeah, your brother, this pasty town. Yeah, your
brother and his fucking baby mama, telling me all their
businesses if I need to know their business. And then
the next thing, again, I will talking to this guy
and he's he's this, he's but I don't want to
hear that. Like when I call my dad, it's positive,
it's uplifting. When she calls me, it's just a dump
(16:07):
of like this low vibrational conversation and it just it
drains my energy.
Speaker 1 (16:12):
And what if you're the only person she feels safe
enough to talk to.
Speaker 3 (16:17):
My brain is telling me, how could that be if
we don't even really.
Speaker 1 (16:20):
Talk like that, But somebody who stays in their room
and smokes and drinks. The communication issues that you're identifying
didn't start with you. Apparently she's had them a long time,
and if she hasn't done anything to improve them, maybe
that's the only way she knows how to communicate, and
(16:41):
maybe she feels safe enough or familiar enough to share
that with you, because you haven't created a boundary with
her and said, Mom, I don't want to hear that,
or Mom, I don't want to talk about that. Mom,
you can call me and talk about my brother. Please
(17:03):
don't do that. You haven't created the boundary, okay. And
that's because it's not the thirty three year old woman
dealing with her, it's the seven year old child. You
haven't grown up her in her space yet. Yeah, what
is your mother's story? How old was she when she
had you?
Speaker 3 (17:23):
She was twenty four and she had my brother when
she was twenty with my brother, so she got pregnant
in college. Just two different stories. Her version is she
was raped. My dad's version is she wasn't because he
knew the guys and currently on my dad's version, she was,
you know, doing what she was doing, cheating on him,
got pregnant with my brother. She lied and told everybody like,
(17:44):
oh I got raped. I don't know. I don't know,
but I know my mom is. She lies a lot.
But in my mind I kind of believe my dad
because she's I was lying, but I will say that
either way, she was young. She was nineteen and she
found out she was pregnant at like five months, so
she didn't even have much time to prepare for my brother.
My dad stepped up, even though he knew that that
(18:06):
wasn't his child, because he knew who the father was.
He stepped up. And then four years later I came.
My dad was in the military, he was gone. I
was born on a military base while he was at war.
My mom was all alone on the base in South Carolina.
So she drove back to Ohio with my grandma about
a month before I was born. So I was born
in Ohio. And then after that she met my stepdad
(18:28):
in Ohio and he's been in my life since a baby.
So I've never seen my mom and my dad together ever.
Speaker 1 (18:33):
She got pregnant in college. How did her mother respond
to that.
Speaker 3 (18:37):
I don't know how her mom responded, but I know
that my my great grandmother, which is her grandmother, which
is who was taking care of her, because my mom
also had a straight relationship with her mother. So my
mom went to Birmingham when she was sixteen, stayed with
my great grandmother. I know my great grandmother. She wasn't happy,
but she was supported her and all of my aunts
that were in Bermia, which we have a really big family.
Speaker 1 (18:59):
So my mother wasn't there for her when she got
pregnant in college and came home or whatever to have
a baby. Her mother wasn't there for her at a
critical time in her life, right, the same way your
mother wasn't there for you at a critical time in
your life when you came out. Yeah, if her mother
(19:20):
wasn't there for her at a critical time in her life,
where do you think she would have learned how to
be there for you?
Speaker 3 (19:29):
Actually, I don't. I don't not. Once we went through
Countling and I talked to my mom, and then I
talked to my grandmother, I realized y'all have the same story. Right,
So once I learned that, that completely is out of
the window. Now now I know that she couldn't even
give to me. She didn't have it. You don't even
know what it looks like or feels like.
Speaker 1 (19:46):
Well, if you know she doesn't have it, if you
know she never seen it, she didn't receive it, why
are you still expecting her to give it to you?
Speaker 3 (19:55):
I think I'm not really expecting for her to give
me an love. I I just thought, I just don't
want to be her dumping board for her negativity. Like
it's literally as soon as I answer it.
Speaker 1 (20:08):
Dump I get that. I get that, But I also
want you to consider, what if you are the person
she feels safe enough, familiar enough to share those things.
What if as a young woman she had no place
to ask questions to be nurtured or guided the same
(20:28):
way she didn't guide and nurture you. See, the thing
that I know is that children bring to life the
subconscious issues of the parents, the things the parents can't see,
don't see, can't accept, won't accept about themselves. Very often,
the children bring those to life and they live them out.
(20:52):
And if you're saying you were a good kid, a
peaceful kid, a smart kid, you knew that there was
probably a part of her she was in college that
was good and peaceful and loving, or that nobody ever affirmed.
You know, I know that she didn't do it for you,
(21:12):
which says to me, nobody did it for her. But
you stuck at seven or six, have made this about
how she treats you and not about who she is.
And when I'm hearing in your conversation you don't want
(21:33):
your mother to be who she is.
Speaker 3 (21:35):
I think there's true to that where you said I
don't want her to be herself because when I first
came well, when she first came back there on at
twenty seven, I wanted to go to counsel because I
can't deal with you if you're going to be that person.
But that is her and I tell her, yeah, I
don't accept her, ask who she is.
Speaker 1 (21:54):
Here's a pearl for clutching. Okay, don't even clutch your pearls.
Don't even just take this one pearl and clutch it
to your bosom. What if you are doing to her
the exact same thing you say she did to you.
What if rejecting her, not talking to her, judging her,
(22:15):
seeing her wrongness, not affirming her, not acknowledging her, not
looking beyond your hurt and upset, not looking at her story,
dismissing her truth. What if she really was raped because
that simply means that somebody wanted to have sex with
her and she said no. What if she really was
(22:36):
raped in her mind? But the peace that I want
you to get to love it, whether you go take
care of her or not will deal with that in
a minute. Is that you are doing to her the
very same thing you accuse her of doing to you,
which is not accepting her for who she is. She
(22:57):
doesn't accept you because you're gay. You don't accept her
because she's a wounded, broken little girl who grew into
a wounded, broken woman. Let me tell you something, if
your mother hated you, she would have never stepped foot
in the counselor's office.
Speaker 3 (23:11):
I can accept that.
Speaker 1 (23:12):
Can you accept that? Looking at your mother, you're looking
at another part of yourself. You call yourself nice and
sweet and loving. You haven't said not one nice, sweet,
loving thing about her. You have told me every single
thing that's wrong with her. Does she have nice eyes?
Does she have nice hair? Did she make you a
(23:32):
good sandwich? Yeah? Yes, she beat you or punished you
and controlled you with money. But that wasn't who she is.
That's what she did from her brokenness, her wounds and
won't personal. Wasn't even about you. People do what they
do based on who they are and the information that
(23:55):
they have at the time. And you've made her hurt,
her brokenness, her woundedness, all about her, which she probably
inherited from her mother. But you, little miss Sunshine, you
probably show her things about herself that she's never even
considered were present, and she can't see it. She can't
(24:17):
accept it, she can't receive it. And it's not about you,
it's about her brokenness.
Speaker 3 (24:23):
So if I say to her like, hey, I don't
want to talk about my brother, like I create a boundary.
If I create a boundary on everything.
Speaker 1 (24:32):
Well, first of all, you can't do that until you
grow up. You got to grow yourself up in your
mother's presence and be willing to stand with her woman
to woman. And you still get not to like her,
you know, you still get to if you wouldn't pick
her as a friend. She don't have to be your friend,
but she's your mother, and without her you wouldn't be here,
(24:53):
gay or straight, Ohio or Alabama. Where's the gratitude for that?
Speaker 3 (25:00):
What do I do that? I don't tell what to do?
Speaker 1 (25:01):
Now, take a breath, Take a breath. That's what you do.
You don't have to do anything. Let's see if we
can get you to be thirty three. We'll talk more
about it when we come back. Welcome back to the
R spot. Let's get back to the conversation. I had
(25:25):
a daughter like you who she I don't care what
I did or how I did it. It was never right.
She always saw the negative that I did because growing
up I was so dysfunctional that I infected her with
my dysfunction. And then as I healed up and cleaned up,
even though she grew up, she still saw me as dysfunctional.
(25:47):
So I heard you say that your your mother now
has cancer and she had an accident and she can't walk.
So I want you to close your eyes for a minute.
Close your eyes for just a minute, and I want
you to see your mom as you know her, to
be bandaged from head to toe like a mummy. The
(26:07):
only thing that's out is her eyes and her nose
and her mouth. Can't see her hair, you can't see
her head. You can't see her arms, her fingers, her legs. Nothing,
see her bandaged. And how would you treat her? How
would you treat her if you walked into a room
and that's what she looked like? What would you do?
Speaker 3 (26:29):
Probably give her something to eat through a straw?
Speaker 1 (26:32):
How about ask her mom, do you need anything?
Speaker 3 (26:36):
I think this is important. I don't know. I feel
like I need to give this to you. But when
I was in a Fio in July, it was the
last time I got there she called me because it
was like a week you know that call I told
you about where she dumped all of it on me
for a week. After my older brother was having a
baby shower, so I flew to Ohio and she had
an accident. That's how she ended up mouth walking. She
(26:57):
already had the cancer, was walking when she goes me
when I got there. It was the day before I
got there, she had the accident that landed her in
the hospital. And when I walked into the hospital and
she called me at the baby showers, I couldn't even
enjoy the baby shower, which kind of irritating me because
I was over here for thirty minutes she called. So
of course I went to the hospital with both my
(27:18):
brothers because we were all there. And when I walked
in and I seen her in the hospital bed, there
was a part of me that came up that was
like it was like not happy that she was there,
but it was more so like, yeah, that's how I
felt as a kid, and I felt so bad or
feeling like that, but I didn't it just came up,
like to see her in pain. Yeah, that's how I thought.
Speaker 1 (27:39):
That's a typical seven year old response. Good for you,
see see good for you. That's normal.
Speaker 3 (27:46):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (27:47):
And now you, as a thirty three year old, were
probably horrified.
Speaker 3 (27:51):
Yeah I was.
Speaker 1 (27:52):
Yeah, but that's what a kid would do. And that's
what I really want you to get. You're not dealing
with your mom as a thirty three year old, rational,
rationally minded woman. You're still dealing with her from the
fear and they're upset and their anger as a seven
year old. And that's fine, but you just have to
(28:13):
be aware of that and do something different as a
thirty three year old woman, create clear boundaries with her
and again dealing woman to woman, not child to adult.
Woman to woman. You want to come from a place
of love, honor, and respect. Ma, I can't. I can't
(28:35):
with you. I can't do me a favor. It breaks
my heart when you talk about my brother like that.
So I'm going to make a request that you don't
talk to me about my brother in that way. You
can ask me a question, you can ask me my opinion,
but that cussing him and I can't. I can't do that.
With you please, And if she doesn't have a good
(28:58):
response about that, and you say, okay, Ma, when you
call me and you talk about my brother like that,
I'm gonna end the conversation. I'll call you back later,
but we're not going to do that. I'm not going
to do that with you. That's how a thirty three
year old woman speaks to another woman. You make the requests,
you create the boundary, and then you implement the consequence. Wow,
(29:24):
and she'll forget. And every time she forgets, you remind
her you're not seven. At seven you had to stand
outside the door. At seven, she could hit you. At seven,
you said. At nineteen, when you were stepping into your
womanness that you said, Oh, she tries to control me
with money. Let me do something about this. You made
(29:44):
another choice. You stop participating in the drama. See, you
and your mother are deep in the drama. And in
the drama, there's the victim, there's the rescuer, and there's
the persecutor. And she keeps playing different roles with you're
her victim, but you want her to rescue you. Why
don't you like me? Why don't you love me? Why
(30:05):
don't you treat me? This? Way, and then she's your persecutor.
But she can only be your persecutor if you stay
the victim. And it's not you at thirty three, that's
the victim. It's the seven year old. So you got
to take care of your seven year old. And the
way we can get you to be thirty three is
(30:26):
to give that seven year old a voice and let
her talk about all of the things that she needs
to say to her mommy, because that's who's in trouble.
You fine, you, okay, it's that little girl. Can you
(30:47):
see her in your mind when you come home and
mommy's in the room drinking and smoking. So let's do this.
Let her go outside your mom's her mom's been room door.
Let her go outside her mom's bedroom door. And what
does she want to say to her mom? Let her
(31:07):
just stand there and talk to the door. Take a breath,
and I'm scared. Yeah, I'm scared, Mommy. Say that I'm scared, mommy.
Tell her what you're scared of I'm.
Speaker 3 (31:25):
Scared of her because at any moment, she could book
I'm scared of you.
Speaker 1 (31:31):
No, no, talk to her. I'm scared of you because.
Speaker 3 (31:35):
I'm scared of you because at any moment, you could
just blow up for no reason.
Speaker 1 (31:42):
How about I'm scared of the way you treat me.
I'm scared of the way you hit me. I'm scared
of the way you yell at me. How about that.
Speaker 3 (31:50):
I don't know. I don't know. I don't know what
else I can do to be a good child. Like
I just feel like a bad child, and I know
I'm not bad.
Speaker 1 (31:59):
Yeah, yeah, you make me feel bad? Mommy? Tell her?
Speaker 3 (32:08):
Do you like me? Feel bad? Mommy?
Speaker 1 (32:12):
Yeah? Confuses me and you hurt me. Yes, yes, you
confuse me.
Speaker 3 (32:21):
You confuse me.
Speaker 1 (32:22):
Tell her you confuse me and you hurt me, and
and what else? Yeah? And I just want you to
love me.
Speaker 3 (32:33):
Yes, I just want you to love me and actually
pay attention to me, like see me please?
Speaker 1 (32:41):
Yeah, you don't see me.
Speaker 4 (32:44):
Because it was paying attention and you pay attention to
the micro and I'm just in the middle.
Speaker 1 (32:54):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (32:55):
Yeah, just let her cry for a minute. Just let
her cry.
Speaker 1 (33:07):
How come you don't like me? Mommy? How come you
don't like me? Ask her?
Speaker 3 (33:15):
How come you don't like me?
Speaker 2 (33:18):
Like?
Speaker 3 (33:18):
What am I doing wrong? That's what it is?
Speaker 4 (33:22):
Like? What am I doing wrong? I just feel like
no matter what I do, I do everything. You take
care of my baby brother, Like, like, what what am
I doing wrong?
Speaker 1 (33:34):
Like you're not doing anything wrong, baby, I just don't
have it. I know you need it, I know you
want it. I just don't have it. And every time
I see you, it reminds me of what I don't have.
So I just stay behind this door. I just stay
(33:57):
here because I don't have what you need because I
never got it. I never got it, and what little
bit I had I lost. Trying to get people to
(34:21):
love me, trying to get people to make me feel better,
trying to feel better about myself. I see you, I
see you, and I don't like what I see because
I don't have it. I can't believe that something as
(34:44):
precious and beautiful as you came from me. I can't
believe that. So I try to stay away from you,
hoping that you'll get what you need forgive me. I
don't know what else to do do, but look at you.
You're beautiful, you're successful. You want me to see you.
(35:07):
I don't want you to see me. Okay, take a breath.
I want to hear it. Come on, breee, you want
to blow your nose yeah, let me blood. Okay, go
(35:28):
blow your nose. I'll wait for you. I'll hummmm is
that better? Yeah? Your little girl probably triggers her little girl,
(36:00):
and if her little girl is broken and wounded, then
it's just gonna be two little girls together. That's why
she's coming to you saying f this and this one. Now,
she's gossiping with you. That's what little girls do. She's
gossip y'all, a gossipin and you calling it negativity. That's
how she's communicating. You're stuck at seven. She's probably stuck
(36:24):
in eleven or twelve. And I just I have to
bring to your awareness, beloved, that you haven't said one
positive thing about your mother in this conversation. Not one.
So I got one more question to ask you, and
(36:45):
then we're gonna give you a prescription so you can
move forward. And I want the absolute rot gut from
the pit of your belly. Truth. Why do you want
to be in relationship with your mother?
Speaker 3 (37:01):
Because when I'm not with her, I feel like a
piece of musiness.
Speaker 1 (37:05):
Yes, yes, And now you're being asked to take care
of somebody that you don't feel took care of you. Yeah,
what a powerful, powerful blessing that is because you get
to be for her who she wasn't for you. You
(37:29):
get to be there, You get to be kind, loving, compassionate,
You get to heal up some stuff. You get to
sit with her and talk with her now the way
you didn't when you were twelve and thirteen. But if
you don't want to do it, don't do it because
you cannot do it from obligation. To do it from
(37:53):
obligation would be harmful to you and to her. You'll
be resentful, you'll be angry, you'll be mean. Don't do it.
But what if, what if her lessons, her healing, her
evolution in life is going to come from being mothered
by the person she didn't mother. What if this isn't
(38:18):
her lesson, This is your lesson, and maybe her lesson
is to learn how to receive it. Because the same
way you know she didn't take care of you, she
knows she didn't take care of you, telling you she
didn't have it to give, and how she responds to
it now it's not your business. But if you can
(38:39):
find it in your heart to be for her who
she wasn't for you, what a powerful blessing on your
life so sit with it. Sit with it and see
how it feels. But don't go into it trying to
(39:01):
get her to be who you need her to be.
Go into it being who you are and accepting her
as she is. How she responds is none of your business,
because it's going to take a great deal of humility
and surrender for her to allow you to take care
of her. She may have it, she may not. I
(39:23):
don't know, but I know all things are lessons that
our creator would have us learn. So this is your
learning curve. It's probably hers too, But I'm not talking
to her. I'm talking to you. In the book Forgiveness
(39:44):
forty Days to Forgive Everyone for Everything, I have an
entire section on forgiving your mother. If you get a chance,
get that book and do that work. You got to
forgive you your thoughts about her, your beliefs about her,
your judgments about her, and your feelings about her. Not
(40:08):
that you don't have a right to have those thoughts, beliefs,
feelings based on your experience, but to forgive them opens
you up to see things from a different perspective. What's
going to be different when you get off this call?
Speaker 3 (40:23):
What's going to be different? Is my mindset about the
story that I told myself. To be honest, I've told
myself a very horrific story, and I've repeated that.
Speaker 1 (40:33):
Story, traumatizing and over traumatizing yourself.
Speaker 3 (40:38):
Yeah, yeah, I tell that story. Is different now I
have more understanding of her positions and even my position
and my opportunity to grow.
Speaker 1 (40:49):
But here's what I want you to do, because your
seven year old still needs healing. When that anger and
that whatever it is, you know, you know what it
is comes up in you, I want you to take
a breath and tell your seven year old I got this,
because it's not the thirty three year old who's doing that.
(41:12):
So we want to take care of the seven year old.
So you almost have to remother yourself because it'll come up,
you know, as soon as she says something or does
something or tells one of her negative stories, your seven
year old is going to freak out. So within yourself
you have to say, wait a minute, baby, calm down,
(41:32):
I got this. I got this. You sit right here,
I got this, and then you allow the thirty three
year old to deal with mom. Yeah, this is a
major turning point for you because you're thirty three years old,
the dark night of the soul where you're getting a
chance to kind of rewire yourself and recreate yourself. But
(41:54):
you can't continue to re traumatize yourself. You have to
respond differently. Every time it comes up. You gotta respond differently. Okay, Yes,
let me know how you're doing. Okay, And if you go,
take care of mom. No heat, no judgment anyway, any
either way you choose, because if you think you have
(42:15):
to go, don't go. Go when you feel you can
do it from a loving space.
Speaker 3 (42:22):
Okay, Thank you so much, Anne, I really truly appreciate you,
like I'm so grateful for this God. Thank you, and
thank you for showing me myself.
Speaker 1 (42:31):
Thank you for trusting me with your story and with
your tears. Thank you. It is an honor. Take good care,
mean too. All right, bye bye. Let's be clear, there
are many mothers out there who are not who their
(42:51):
children need and want them to be, but they are
who they are, and when those children become adult, the
work is not traumatizing yourself about what your mother didn't
do or who she wasn't It's about seeing her for
who she is today, a woman with a history and
(43:14):
a story and having compassion for that so that you
can step fully into your adult self and learn how
to deal with your mother or any parent from an
adult space, not as a wounded, broken child, because no
matter what she gave you or didn't give you, you
(43:37):
are who you are today because of her. The R
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For more podcasts from Shondaland Audio, visit the iHeartRadio app,
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(44:00):
Shells
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Iyanla Vanzant
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