December 23, 2021 • 43 mins
A chance meeting in a neighborhood bar brings JoAnn Tate and Rodney Lincoln together; now police are investigating him for her murder. But Melissa’s memory of Rodney Lincoln and the record of his criminal past aren’t helping his case. Although he maintains his innocence, after two trials, Rodney is convicted and sent away. That should be the end of it. Instead, it’s only the beginning.
Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.com
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
She didn't pick the other guy. She picks out Rodney Lincoln.
Seven year old Melissa Davis has just told police the
man who killed her mother, Joe and Tate and brutally
attacked her and her little sister Renee is, in fact
Rodney Lincoln. Metro p d has just picked him up.
(00:22):
Did you think you were coming back? I thought I would,
I told the gold I think drawn I'll be back
in the wall on the way you read me my right,
That's why really struck me. Who I'm really in trouble now?
(00:51):
I'm Leah Rothman. This is the real Killer Episode three
Joanne and Rodney. Yeah, anyway, I think I showed you
last time. I've gotten actually bigger now. Oh my gosh,
(01:13):
this is unbelievable. There's probably work of stuff here easy.
I'm in Lynn, Missouri, at Nat and Lorie Clanny's house,
Joe and Tate's brother and sister in law. To say
they're collectors is a major understatement. They have thousands of
model cars, matchbox cars and Pezz dispensers, crafting supplies, VHS tapes,
(01:37):
and vintage toys, all super organized with a sense of
pride and sentimentality for all they've amassed. This is my
room where I come up and I'm feeling kind of
down and out. I'll come up and I'll relax and
I'll just sitting and look at all my junk. And
you see my drawings, didn't you? Yes, incredible to draw
(01:58):
sometimes too. Look at still. This is all my big
screen TVs goes from all the way there to there.
Oh my god. And this look look look at Lorie's
madness though. Do you this is our selling stuff? This
used to be for company. Wow, I'm na call it?
What else is? I call it? Ingenious? Do you still
(02:21):
have the pictures in the hallway over here? Yeah? Down there.
But their most prized collection is of their family photos
and home movies. I think you've seen this one before
because this was in the video. But there's Joeyanne there,
but it's might be hard to see that one. Uh,
let's see there Joanne and that. Let's see so you
(02:43):
can find some more. Oh yeah, that was your birthday. Yeah,
I think you've seen them before. There's Melissa right there.
There's Melissa. They're in the front yard you want, and
I'm filming already. That that's Samson. That was Samson. He
lived to be nine. But yeah, there's Melissa, she was
(03:06):
probably fifteen. Let's see, Renee was thirteen and Melissa was fifteen,
so wild to see her as a teenager. Oh yeah, okay,
right now, yeah, Renee, there's your day. She's just a
(03:29):
little dude. So nat tell me about your family. Take
me through the kids. Joanne was the oldest, and then
my brother Dan came along, and uh, then my sister Rachel,
and then Abby was the next one, and then I
(03:50):
was the baby. I was born in nineteen sixty three.
What's the age difference between you and Joanne? Joe Anne
would have been probably about seventeen, eighteen years older than me.
How would you describe your home life growing up? Mom
and dad really didn't have a relationship when I was
growing up. Dad didn't really want all the kids. He
(04:11):
didn't want all the extra ones Mom wanted them. He
just like peace and quiet. I hardly ever saw my
dad growing up because he was sleeping all the time.
Was your mom affectionate? No, No, that she come from
a hard time the depression? Were you just didn't really
show feelings? So, I mean I never got picked up
and hugged or our love, but I knew she loved me.
(04:34):
And what are some of your earliest memories of Joanne.
The earliest memories. I don't remember much, but my sister,
she had a strong love for her brothers and sisters.
That was dating this girl and she was saying some
negative things about me, and my sister got wind of it.
(04:55):
And I was just about fifteen and my girlfriend's about four,
and my sister all of a sudden, I'm coming. I'm
walking back from my girlfriend's house. It was across the
highway and I see my sister coming the other way
and she was mad. I mean, her face was red
and she looked like she was going to rip somebody
to pieces. And I met her. I said, where are
(05:16):
you going, Joey, and said, I'm gonna go over up.
She's not gonna say anything about my brother like that anything.
I said, Joyant, please let me hit let me handle
this myself. And I calmed her down and we turned
around and we walked back home together. She was a
good sister, I mean she was. She loved her family.
She would do whatever she could for her family. She
had fight for her family. She probably laid on her
(05:37):
life for her family. I believe she would fiercely loyal,
sometimes to the wrong people. Around nineteen sixty three, Joanne
marries her first husband and they have a daughter together,
but that relationship is an abusive one, and it lands
Joanne in the hospital on more than one occasion. Eventually,
(05:57):
they divorce and Joanne moves it's some family members to
Chicago for a fresh start, or at least that's what
she hoped would happen. We were in Chicago and we
were driving down this road and then a drunk driver
hit us head on about seventy and uh, Joanne was
(06:20):
Joanne was driving and I came to the car was smoking,
was off the side of road. I was in the
back seat, sister, law and sister. They went through the
window and U I got all the car at The
car was just crushed and I hear him just mulling there.
Oh oh, I was I never you can't get that
out of your head, and Uh, I said, I gotta
(06:42):
get help. If nobody it's a dark highway, it's it's January,
it's cold, and I ran down this highway. I don't
know for how long, but blood was just coming out
of my head. And it was one eleven year old
Nat bleeding from a head wound. Finally stops the passer
by and gets help. Everyone survives the collision, but joe
(07:03):
Anne's injuries are severe. Joe Baby, she we called our
joe Baby, so Joe Anne. But Joe Baby broke three
of her ribs, the stero and went into her chest.
She broke her hip in a couple of places, broke
her leg, broke her arm, broke her chin. So she
was in a hospital for a long time. But they
(07:23):
didn't think she would ever walk again. Joanne refuses to
accept that and eventually proves them wrong. But life for
thee year old will be forever changed. She never could
work anymore, and so she got on welfare. She tried,
She tried to sell avon on the side. He'd collect bottles,
(07:46):
you know, because Walfare didn't give me much anyway. Despite
Joanne's financial struggles, there's happiness in her life, a bright
spot well to actually. In nineteen seventy four, Melissa is born.
In the nineteen seven along comes Renee, a single mother
to three girls. It's now the four of them against
(08:07):
the world. Joanne was a good mother. She was a
good mother. She took care of her kids. I get
a lot of my personality from my mom. Here's Melissa today.
When I look at her pictures and I think of her,
I remember this woman who was so funny and goofy,
(08:28):
and she had this bubbly, you know personality. She loved
a dance and do things with family members and hang
out and chat and laughed together. I just wish she
knew how pretty she was. I wanted to be like her.
I wanted to be so pretty like her. My mom
(08:51):
had this soft, soft body, is voluptuous and very feminine,
and she of curves from carrying babies. I thought she
was beautiful. She had porcelain skin and brown eyes, very
expressive like puppy dog eyes, beautiful hair that was probably
(09:12):
dark brown, she dyed it black, painted nails, red lipstick
that she got from Avon, and still letto heels. My
mom would be in church playing piano with long nails
and stiletto heels. What kinds of things would you and
your mom do together? We did a lot of taken
(09:34):
in animals. We had a menagerie. We were always happening
upon animals. We love to walk, We loved the farmer's market,
and we loved to go to the park. She made
the most average Monday, and things so exciting in the
(09:54):
winter when a snow she makes snow cream. What is
snow cream? Snow cream is know that you mix with
a little bit of vanilla and sugar and milk. And
I felt fancy, I said, who else has got snow
groom from real snow? Sometimes we one hour walks, we'd
pick up cans. Other times Mama would sell a vine.
(10:15):
And if someone gave her an opportunity or money and
she could physically do it, like a odd job for somebody,
she would. Mama did whatever she could, and she swallowed
her pride to ask for help from agencies and churches.
But it just seemed like no matter what. Come the
third week of the month, we had hardly anything left,
(10:38):
usually just a bag of potatoes and whatever was given
to us by a family member. As real as their
money problems are, maybe the bigger issue is the one
Joanne had with men. Not saw it firsthand. I never
(10:59):
liked any of them, they were all creeps. But she
didn't see that in people. She didn't judge people. That's
just the way she thought. Everybody had a good heart.
And I could I could be next to somebody and
since that they're a piece of crap right away, you know.
But she couldn't have that in or I don't know
if she just wasn't built like that. What do you
think was going on with Joanne that she needed to
(11:21):
have men around. I think Joanne was lonely. Joan was
was she just she felt because she had the kids
and she was overweight, that she didn't have what it took,
you know, to keep a guy anymore, and then they
would use her and just dump her. It was painful
because I've seen and that's my sister. But there was
nothing I can't You can't help somebody when they're in
(11:44):
that kind of state of mind, you know. She just
you know, I just you know, I love my sister Jolian,
and she was just she was a good person. But
I just somehow she got off on a bad track
of trust in people. No self confidence. When I met Matt,
he didn't any self confidence either any time. He self esteem,
(12:04):
self esteem, self confidence. That's just the way we're raised.
We weren't raised with a lot of affection or attention
or showing anything. She was raised in an environment where
you're taught to marry find that man who could take
you out of that situation and give you a life
where you don't have to struggle so hard. Men worthy
solution to everything, even if they weren't the greatest man
(12:30):
with the best intentions or personality or integrity or decency.
It was a man, and the fact that it was
a man, it was very low standards. And one of
those men is Rodney Lincoln. Back in the day, Rodney Lincoln,
(12:56):
a white guy with an undeniably great head of brown air,
was five five hundred and twenty two pounds. Today Rodney
is gray and weighs a touch less Forgive me for
saying it this way, but you're not the largest man
I've ever seen. Five. You weigh less than I do.
(13:22):
A quick note about Rodney, he's now seventy seven years
old and dealing with some health issues, so sometimes it's
a little hard to understand him. Born in South St.
Louis on August nineteenth, ninety, Rodney is raised by his
mother Mary and stepfather Leonard, the self proclaimed mischievous prankster.
(13:45):
Enlist in the Navy after high school. It's one of
the shorter military careers I've ever heard of. Well, my
naval career lefted about by nine days. I didn't pass
see physical once I got the base and they gave
(14:05):
me home about discharge for medical reasons. So I came home,
tried out for St. Louis Cardinals and made it. I
played in the Mining League a year year a half.
What position did you play? Picturing short stuff? During that
time I met a young lady that was soon to
(14:28):
become Mrs Lincoln. He's young and love and she said, well,
you can't have a family and be away from home
all time and the ball player. That's the way life is.
So I gave up my dream. We got married and
(14:50):
eventually married with children. They end up having four kids, Rodney, Patrick, Leonard,
Kay and Kelly. Then in nineteen seventy two, life in
the Lincoln household changes abruptly. I got in trouble with
the police. I was quite a heavy drinker at time.
(15:14):
I was about drinking an argument, turning into a fighting man,
and you're dead. Tell me a little bit more about
what happened in nineteen seventy two. I can't say I
was drinking pretty heavy. I was down a boy. I
got into a argument with this guy over the pool game.
(15:38):
The guy is Russell Myers. After we had this load
and deal with the pool game, he left. Well, I
wasn't done drinking, so I've dated the boy. Some drinks later,
a friend of Rodney's tells him Russell just stolen axe
out of his truck, so Rodney goes after him. They fight,
(16:03):
then call a truce and decide to go drink together.
After stocking up on beer and sheep wine, they drive
to Jefferson Barracks, an Army and Air National Guard base,
cemetery and park three hundred and thirty seven acres on
the banks of the Mississippi River. So while we're drinking,
(16:24):
we gant argument again. The argument takes a turn when,
according to Rodney, Russell propositions him and I said no.
And this is when you really started getting angry. He
picked up a big rock and don't at me. I ducked.
(16:46):
I picked up a big rock into a ham You
didn't actually, I panic. Russell doesn't duck, and the rock
Rodney just through hits him in the head, killing him instantly. Frenzied,
(17:06):
Rodney takes off and pulls out right in front of
another car. Yea flame always great. Keep from hitting me.
You gotta be a good description. My truck that wasn't
well to police was coming in question me. At first
I denied it. I'm scared more than anything. Finally I
(17:29):
don't look, yeah I did it. We gott like me
to rock at me. I do rock at him him
and he didn't hit me. But there's actually more to
the story, something that happens before Rodney leaves the scene
and is questioned by police. Where was his body? Where
(17:53):
was Russell Meyer's body found? I dragged his body over
to the river, but him enter the river. They found
scorebone tissue, brain tissue, be they dragged Mississippi, but they
never didfined the body. And eventually I told him, you know,
(18:18):
yeah I did it. Why did you push his body
into the Mississippi River? Panic? I was scared, I guess
in the back of my mind, I thought if they
if I hid the body, nobody you know well from
what I heard the way they found the scene of
some guy who was walking on his dog and dog
(18:39):
found this stuff, and this guy called the bulleys. So
I was convicted of second degree murtive. I was rightfully
convicted of second degree motive. Rodney is sentenced to ten years.
He's let out in too drunk, parole sixteen month, got
(19:07):
the drinking agag got get in trouble again, wound up,
get my parole revoked. I went back, got out, I
made a bow. I would never go back to parodon again.
I have a question about when you drink. Were you
(19:29):
happy drunk? Were you an angry drunk? Did you have
a temper? I was a changeable drunk. Most of the time.
I was high, happy, go lucky and have another drink.
But there was something that made me angry. It was
all the way I could go from having a great
(19:52):
time to be ready to really hurt somebody. Some months
out of prison and vowing to never go back. Around
mid nine, thirty six year old Rodney meets thirty four
year old Joe and Tate. It wasn't no old big
(20:16):
love a bear anything, which he loves to have check
at at. But again, there's more to it than just that.
Let's go back. Tell me about when and where the
circumstances around surrounding you meeting Joe an Tate, Alex booking
(20:39):
a new boy. Rodney's working at Red Villa's Bar at
Broadway and Davis in South St. Louis, which kind of
a neighborhood. Boy were the old man had nothing to do,
go in and sit in there all day and talk
about the lives they live. Where beers are a dollar
(21:02):
twenty five and pool tournaments packed the locals in. And
it's during one of these tournaments Daniel Clenny brings in
his sisters Abby and Joanne. How did you know Daniel
at that time? I did. I met him there shooting pool, ah,
(21:24):
but I never really knew him. I did met him,
and then when he came in, I didn't recognize him,
but we got talking, and I got talking to joe Anne.
Abby makes it crystal clear she's not interested in Rodney,
(21:47):
but Joanne is. And when they left, she had me
peach paper with a name number on it. Well, I
clothed the ball that night I called the number. She's saying, yeah,
come on over. And that was the first time we
(22:07):
gotten together. And where did she? Where did you go?
Where did she live? She lived in i Plock. I
think she it was fair Street for street. I went
to her house. Basically we had sucks and I loved uh.
(22:32):
I've seen joe Anne maybe three or four times after that,
and then we kind of dripped their part and she
didn't call me. I didn't call her. Fast forward to
May around one pm. It's about a month after Joanne's murder,
(22:58):
and seven year old Melissa just picked out Rodney's photo
as the attacker. Here's Melissa again. I thought I was done.
I was so relieved, and then I found out that
we had to go round to the police station. About
three pm, on the second floor of police headquarters, Melissa
(23:23):
and four year old Renee, along with Detective Joe Bragoon
and three other investigators, enter one side of the lineup room.
Four white males enter the other, and we're standing on
this one side of this glass. And the detective explained
to me that I could see them, but they couldn't
(23:44):
see me. When he said, I want you to look
very carefully as these people. I didn't want to do
it because word that the bad guy would get me.
According to the police report, Renee picks none of the men.
Melissa picks number three. Rodney Lincoln at the lineup office
(24:19):
soon walked up to me and said, you're in big
trouble and got me took me back to show. Rodney
agrees to talk with investigators. He tells them about meeting
Joanne at the pool tournament. Then their brief sexual relationship,
and he tells them something else. One time I went
(24:42):
away there and she was worried by someone bothering her. So,
being a nice guy, I am much. Come over my
house tonight Into Gold came over my house while mom talked.
I was living m I took the two golds called
(25:03):
street to the park for a while. The two Golds
slept upstairs in one bed joint. I slept in another
bed upstairs. The next morning, I took him home, and
I think that was last time I've seen it. Remember,
(25:25):
Melissa said she had been to Bill's house. Bill lived
with his mom. She said they spend the night upstairs,
and they played at the park across the street from Bills.
That evening, they came by and told me that I I
(25:46):
was being charged with capital and murder and to count
the fish degree assault and my bond with one billion
dollars secured. I'm making forty up a week. I got
a million dollar by I knew I wasn't make a buy.
(26:11):
Rodney has fingerprinted and gives pubic hair and blood samples.
Joanne's family soon learns there's been an arrest. Here are
Laurie and not again. I just I felt like the
police know what they're doing. You know, they're the professionals.
They got all the um evidence and equipment and technology
(26:34):
to find the person. And thank god, now they got
the guy that did this, because I believe Melissa. If
Melissa could remember that much detail at seven years old
about a place she had been a year before, after
all the trauma she just went through, I had faith
in it. I believe she knew what she was talking about,
and I believe Nat felt the same way. Thank god
(26:57):
they got him. Thank god they got this guy. What
did you think when you learned Rodney Lincoln had killed
a man before? I thought that, you know, that just
reinforces he's a killer. If he killed once, what's going
to stop from killing again? That's what I thought, you know.
Back at the station, Rodney agrees to take a polygraph.
(27:20):
According to the police report, he's asked these questions, did
you kill joe An Tate? And did you stick a
broom a correctum soon found out that I've been't pay
the polygraph. It's not good there. Sure you lied by
everything including your name, my name. Wait a minute. Five
(27:47):
weeks later, Rodney Lincoln is indicted by the grand jury
and prominently displayed under his name in the indictment is
a new detail. Rodney is also known as Bad Bill
Rodney and Durs's plea of not guilty, and he tells
his family the same. Here's Rodney's daughter Kay, who was
(28:10):
thirteen at the time. I mean, the very first time
we went to seeing he absolutely I did not do this.
I need you to know I did not do this.
And that's all it took. He only had to tell
me what. In the months that followed, detectives obtained pubic
hair samples from thirty seven people, mostly men. Included in
(28:32):
that group are joe Anne's family members, Stevency, her neighbor,
and Tom Schultz, her ex boyfriend. But there are two
people who refused to give a hair sample without a
court order. Gary Lrose. He's the first person Melissa and
Renee's older sister asked about. And Billy Paris, a cousin
(28:53):
of joe Anne's first husband. But it may not matter
because Chief Criminalist Harold Slur states in a deposition that
a hair found on a blue blanket is microscopically similar
to Rodney Lincoln and dissimilar to the victims or any
of the other samples collected. Rodney remains in jail for
(29:15):
over a year until his trial begins on August eighth.
For the prosecution is six year veteran assistant circuit attorney
Joseph Bauer. By the way, prosecutors are called circuit attorneys
in St. Louis. For the defense, Robert Hampy, Rodney's older brother,
(29:36):
cleaned out his retirement fund and took out a second
mortgage on his home in order to hire the cocky
attorney with a reputation of winning tough cases. The jury,
diverse in gender and race, will be sequestered in what's
expected to be a less than two week trial. Aunt
Lourie is their day in and day out. The judge
(30:00):
talked to Renee and he said she was too young
to testify, that you know, they wouldn't allow her. But
I do remember sitting in the courtroom like third or
fourth rowback, and you know, seeing some of the testimony
Rodney Lincoln during the trial. I just remember seeing the
back of his head. I do remember I looked over
(30:21):
a few times to get a look at the guy,
but he just sat there like facing the judge. The
whole time. How was Melissa on the stand? Oh, Melissa
was very she was very confident in her testimony. Remember
in the trial, it was huge. First of all, the
room was so big, and I remember using my manners
(30:47):
and I used my words, and I was loud and
spoke out. And she believed what she was saying. I
could tell that even at seven years old, and that
she you know, she answered the questions. You know, you
almost thought she was like a little adult sitting up there.
She was sure that Rodney was the one that did it.
(31:10):
Day eight, both sides rest and the jury begins their deliberations.
But after two days they're deadlocked and a hung jury
is declared. The split is seven five and it's unknown
if the majority is for guilt or innocence. What did
you think when the it was a hung jury? Letdown?
(31:32):
It's a big letdown. And um, what I want to say,
justice just fell apart. Justice did not do its job,
you know, I mean, you know, how could they not
after Melissa's testimony? How could they not convict this guy
for Julian's murder? You know what? These people must not
(31:54):
care that are on the jury said they just couldn't
believe a kid or something like that. I don't know,
but I was like, this is ridiculous. This is just
absolutely ridiculous. Prosecutors are determined to get their guy and
waste no time. Just two months after the hung jury,
(32:16):
on October three, the second trial begins. I was so
mad we did this already. I don't want to talk
about this no more. I sorry. I felt really bad
about myself. There are people asked me why I couldn't
get help, and my family why I didn't get help.
(32:40):
There were was a teacher at my school that was
fascinated with my case, and she made me come out
and tell all the other teachers what happened to me.
I was so done talking about it. Trial number two
did Ury will be sequestered again, but this time it
(33:02):
consists of twelve white men. The same attorneys will be
trying the case, Robert Hampy for the defense and Joe
Bauer for the prosecution. And I'll note that even though
Joe Bauer had left the Circuit Attorney's office for private practice,
the state appoints him special Assistant Circuit Attorney for this trial.
(33:24):
But there are some differences this go around. There's a
different judge, a much bigger deal is made of the
hair that is microscopically similar to Rodney's. And there's a
surprise witness for the defense, a guy from Joanne's neighborhood,
Billy Hayes, who also had been considered a person of
(33:44):
interest in the case. He testifies that he had bumped
into a man in the Hyde Park neighborhood around the
time of the murder. The man, who was wearing bloodstained clothes,
threatened to kill him if he ever told anyone of
their meeting. Billy hay As goes on to say that
despite meeting with police multiple times, he had not said
(34:04):
anything about this until August, more than a year after
the murder, because he feared for his life. And he
says he has seen the man on at least one
other occasion since their first meeting and knows him only
as Dave. And for this trial, Melissa, the star witness
is encouraged to be even more dramatic on the witness stand.
(34:28):
I knew I had to get off the stand and
point out the madman. I scared and I got down.
Remember looking down, I had patent white patent choose a
ruffled dress. We're walking over and pointing riding out. It
(34:53):
was very dramatic and moving, very emotionally moving in the
prosecuted attorney asked her, you know, can you see the
who the man in the courtroom? Can you point out
who did it? And she came down off the standard.
She pointed at Rodney. She said, he did. This little
girl has the cahunas to stand across the room and
(35:17):
point at the guy that she, in her mind knows
murdered her mother and you know, butchered her and her
little sister. You know that's powerful. In closing arguments, special
Assistant Circuit Attorney Joe Bauer reminds hers of some of
the most gruesome details, saying, in part quote, Joe and
(35:41):
Tate was dead with the broom inserted into her body
some twenty eight. We know that Joe and Tate walked
around after she was stabbed because her feet on the
bottom of them had blood her blood. And I submit
to you that in order to insert that broom, he
had to wait until she was on the floor before
(36:03):
he attempted to do that. Bower goes on to say
a quote, the knife that was used on that little
girl's vagina was a blunt knife, not a sharp knife.
If you look at States Exhibit sixteen, this is a
blunt knife. All the other knives are pretty sharp steak knives.
This is what was used on that little girl's vagina.
(36:26):
And about Melissa's ability to I d her attacker, he says, quote,
when he has her on the bed with her little
legs around his hips and he's trying to kiss her,
do you think she could forget that face? Do you
think she could ever forget that face? Now it's the
(36:46):
defensive turn, and Robert Hampy starts by calling out all
the inconsistencies in Melissa's testimony. Now, that little girl told
everybody in life that she talked to that a man
named Bill did it. The littlest one said Bill did it.
Immediately after it happened. She told them they did it.
(37:07):
Now we've got Bill, who isn't Bill, Gary who isn't Gary.
But it's sure as hell isn't Rodney. The most distinctive
feature about Rodney Lincoln and he's a little kind of
blend into the woodwork kind of guy. The most distinctive
feature about him is the fact that he has a
finger missing. All of you have been around children, you
(37:28):
know how they think. You know how they act. You
know that that child would have remembered that had she
known that Rodney Lincoln was the man that did this.
He concludes by saying that no matter how sympathetic Renee
and the now eight year old Melissa are, the jurors
should not let that affect them while trying to reach
(37:50):
a verdict. He says, quote, those kids have been down
the road, and your heart has to go out to
the eight year old. But if you heard what she
said from you would not listen to it for ten minutes,
not for ten seconds. And you cannot accept such testimony
from a child. Considering how important this is, Bowers rebuttaled.
(38:13):
He offers up an explanation for Melissa's changing story, saying,
because of all the constant police questioning and the horrible
extent of her wounds, quote, she just gave them a
name bill to shut everybody up. And she didn't pick
Lincoln from a bunch of photographs because she knew him.
She saw several pictures of people her mother knew, and
(38:35):
she said she knew them, but they did not kill
her mother. On October seven, the fifth day of the trial,
jury deliberations begin. They start at ten am, and that
(38:57):
same day at p m they come back with a
verdict guilty of two counts of first degree assault with
a deadly weapon and guilty of the lesser charge of manslaughter,
not capital murder. Like the prosecution had argued for a
(39:18):
complete shock to everyone there. So when you hear the
guilty verdict, dumbfounded, it's done. Who was in the courtroom
for you the day of the guilty verdict was your mom? There,
(39:40):
my mom, my brother. Do you remember looking at them
on the way out. I remember I'm threatening their head
up high. She would reach back and your mouth the woods.
I love you. At John Hard Day, here's Rodney's daughter, Kay.
(40:11):
I remember my mom telling me that he wouldn't be
coming home. He had been convicted. And what do you mean, Well,
they said he was guilty. He's not coming home, and
you know, something in me broke that day. Rodney is
sentenced to two life terms for the attack on the
(40:31):
girls and fifteen years for Joanne's murder, all to run consecutively.
I was thinking he deserved the death penalty because to me,
that crime would would deserve that a death penalty. From
what I saw and from what happened I just felt
relieved that they got this guy, and now we can
go on with our life, you know, minus sister and
(40:54):
to damaged nieces. You know. So that was it, the
end of a horrible nightmare for Joanne's family and her girls.
Justice is finally served. Lock him up and throw away
the key. Right the road to healing can finally start,
not even close. The pain is just beginning. Artist told
(41:19):
the badman was in prison, and ne rafter you think
of him or talk about him again. My family reminded
me quite often that everything was done, I was safe
and nothing to worry about. But yet I always felt
like I was being watched. I never felt safer secure,
and I had nightmares all the time because to me,
(41:44):
there was no reason I feel safe and secure. Next time,
on the real Killer, I wrote all his charges all
over the exterior of this envelope. Ever wrote baby rapist,
I wrote man killer, I wrote predator. Melissa's on a
(42:04):
mission to make Rodney's life a living hell. Did you
want harm to come to him? I wasn't opposed to it,
and Rodney's daughter is equally as driven to save him.
I knew nothing about investigating. I knew nothing about researching.
I was just dumbfounded by the things I had found.
(42:27):
This isn't Oliver. I'm not done. The Real Killer is
a production of a y R Media and I Heart Radio,
hosted by me Leah Rothman, Executive producers Leah Rothman and
(42:48):
Eliza Rosen for a y R Media. Written by me
Leah Rothman, Senior Associate producer Eric Newman, editing and sound
design by Cameron Taggy, mixed and mastered by Cameron Taggy,
Audio engineering by Jesus c. Mario studio engineering by Tom
(43:08):
Weir and Kelly McGrew. Voice acting performed by Clayton Ferris
and Alex Salem. Legal counsel for a y R Media.
Gianni Douglas, executive producer for iHeart Radio Chandler Maze. If
you're enjoying The Real Killer, tell your friends about it
and leave us a review on Apple Podcasts or wherever
(43:30):
you get your podcasts.
She didn't pick the other guy. She picks out Rodney Lincoln.
Seven year old Melissa Davis has just told police the
man who killed her mother, Joe and Tate and brutally
attacked her and her little sister Renee is, in fact
Rodney Lincoln. Metro p d has just picked him up.
(00:22):
Did you think you were coming back? I thought I would,
I told the gold I think drawn I'll be back
in the wall on the way you read me my right,
That's why really struck me. Who I'm really in trouble now?
(00:51):
I'm Leah Rothman. This is the real Killer Episode three
Joanne and Rodney. Yeah, anyway, I think I showed you
last time. I've gotten actually bigger now. Oh my gosh,
(01:13):
this is unbelievable. There's probably work of stuff here easy.
I'm in Lynn, Missouri, at Nat and Lorie Clanny's house,
Joe and Tate's brother and sister in law. To say
they're collectors is a major understatement. They have thousands of
model cars, matchbox cars and Pezz dispensers, crafting supplies, VHS tapes,
(01:37):
and vintage toys, all super organized with a sense of
pride and sentimentality for all they've amassed. This is my
room where I come up and I'm feeling kind of
down and out. I'll come up and I'll relax and
I'll just sitting and look at all my junk. And
you see my drawings, didn't you? Yes, incredible to draw
(01:58):
sometimes too. Look at still. This is all my big
screen TVs goes from all the way there to there.
Oh my god. And this look look look at Lorie's
madness though. Do you this is our selling stuff? This
used to be for company. Wow, I'm na call it?
What else is? I call it? Ingenious? Do you still
(02:21):
have the pictures in the hallway over here? Yeah? Down there.
But their most prized collection is of their family photos
and home movies. I think you've seen this one before
because this was in the video. But there's Joeyanne there,
but it's might be hard to see that one. Uh,
let's see there Joanne and that. Let's see so you
(02:43):
can find some more. Oh yeah, that was your birthday. Yeah,
I think you've seen them before. There's Melissa right there.
There's Melissa. They're in the front yard you want, and
I'm filming already. That that's Samson. That was Samson. He
lived to be nine. But yeah, there's Melissa, she was
(03:06):
probably fifteen. Let's see, Renee was thirteen and Melissa was fifteen,
so wild to see her as a teenager. Oh yeah, okay,
right now, yeah, Renee, there's your day. She's just a
(03:29):
little dude. So nat tell me about your family. Take
me through the kids. Joanne was the oldest, and then
my brother Dan came along, and uh, then my sister Rachel,
and then Abby was the next one, and then I
(03:50):
was the baby. I was born in nineteen sixty three.
What's the age difference between you and Joanne? Joe Anne
would have been probably about seventeen, eighteen years older than me.
How would you describe your home life growing up? Mom
and dad really didn't have a relationship when I was
growing up. Dad didn't really want all the kids. He
(04:11):
didn't want all the extra ones Mom wanted them. He
just like peace and quiet. I hardly ever saw my
dad growing up because he was sleeping all the time.
Was your mom affectionate? No, No, that she come from
a hard time the depression? Were you just didn't really
show feelings? So, I mean I never got picked up
and hugged or our love, but I knew she loved me.
(04:34):
And what are some of your earliest memories of Joanne.
The earliest memories. I don't remember much, but my sister,
she had a strong love for her brothers and sisters.
That was dating this girl and she was saying some
negative things about me, and my sister got wind of it.
(04:55):
And I was just about fifteen and my girlfriend's about four,
and my sister all of a sudden, I'm coming. I'm
walking back from my girlfriend's house. It was across the
highway and I see my sister coming the other way
and she was mad. I mean, her face was red
and she looked like she was going to rip somebody
to pieces. And I met her. I said, where are
(05:16):
you going, Joey, and said, I'm gonna go over up.
She's not gonna say anything about my brother like that anything.
I said, Joyant, please let me hit let me handle
this myself. And I calmed her down and we turned
around and we walked back home together. She was a
good sister, I mean she was. She loved her family.
She would do whatever she could for her family. She
had fight for her family. She probably laid on her
(05:37):
life for her family. I believe she would fiercely loyal,
sometimes to the wrong people. Around nineteen sixty three, Joanne
marries her first husband and they have a daughter together,
but that relationship is an abusive one, and it lands
Joanne in the hospital on more than one occasion. Eventually,
(05:57):
they divorce and Joanne moves it's some family members to
Chicago for a fresh start, or at least that's what
she hoped would happen. We were in Chicago and we
were driving down this road and then a drunk driver
hit us head on about seventy and uh, Joanne was
(06:20):
Joanne was driving and I came to the car was smoking,
was off the side of road. I was in the
back seat, sister, law and sister. They went through the
window and U I got all the car at The
car was just crushed and I hear him just mulling there.
Oh oh, I was I never you can't get that
out of your head, and Uh, I said, I gotta
(06:42):
get help. If nobody it's a dark highway, it's it's January,
it's cold, and I ran down this highway. I don't
know for how long, but blood was just coming out
of my head. And it was one eleven year old
Nat bleeding from a head wound. Finally stops the passer
by and gets help. Everyone survives the collision, but joe
(07:03):
Anne's injuries are severe. Joe Baby, she we called our
joe Baby, so Joe Anne. But Joe Baby broke three
of her ribs, the stero and went into her chest.
She broke her hip in a couple of places, broke
her leg, broke her arm, broke her chin. So she
was in a hospital for a long time. But they
(07:23):
didn't think she would ever walk again. Joanne refuses to
accept that and eventually proves them wrong. But life for
thee year old will be forever changed. She never could
work anymore, and so she got on welfare. She tried,
She tried to sell avon on the side. He'd collect bottles,
(07:46):
you know, because Walfare didn't give me much anyway. Despite
Joanne's financial struggles, there's happiness in her life, a bright
spot well to actually. In nineteen seventy four, Melissa is born.
In the nineteen seven along comes Renee, a single mother
to three girls. It's now the four of them against
(08:07):
the world. Joanne was a good mother. She was a
good mother. She took care of her kids. I get
a lot of my personality from my mom. Here's Melissa today.
When I look at her pictures and I think of her,
I remember this woman who was so funny and goofy,
(08:28):
and she had this bubbly, you know personality. She loved
a dance and do things with family members and hang
out and chat and laughed together. I just wish she
knew how pretty she was. I wanted to be like her.
I wanted to be so pretty like her. My mom
(08:51):
had this soft, soft body, is voluptuous and very feminine,
and she of curves from carrying babies. I thought she
was beautiful. She had porcelain skin and brown eyes, very
expressive like puppy dog eyes, beautiful hair that was probably
(09:12):
dark brown, she dyed it black, painted nails, red lipstick
that she got from Avon, and still letto heels. My
mom would be in church playing piano with long nails
and stiletto heels. What kinds of things would you and
your mom do together? We did a lot of taken
(09:34):
in animals. We had a menagerie. We were always happening
upon animals. We love to walk, We loved the farmer's market,
and we loved to go to the park. She made
the most average Monday, and things so exciting in the
(09:54):
winter when a snow she makes snow cream. What is
snow cream? Snow cream is know that you mix with
a little bit of vanilla and sugar and milk. And
I felt fancy, I said, who else has got snow
groom from real snow? Sometimes we one hour walks, we'd
pick up cans. Other times Mama would sell a vine.
(10:15):
And if someone gave her an opportunity or money and
she could physically do it, like a odd job for somebody,
she would. Mama did whatever she could, and she swallowed
her pride to ask for help from agencies and churches.
But it just seemed like no matter what. Come the
third week of the month, we had hardly anything left,
(10:38):
usually just a bag of potatoes and whatever was given
to us by a family member. As real as their
money problems are, maybe the bigger issue is the one
Joanne had with men. Not saw it firsthand. I never
(10:59):
liked any of them, they were all creeps. But she
didn't see that in people. She didn't judge people. That's
just the way she thought. Everybody had a good heart.
And I could I could be next to somebody and
since that they're a piece of crap right away, you know.
But she couldn't have that in or I don't know
if she just wasn't built like that. What do you
think was going on with Joanne that she needed to
(11:21):
have men around. I think Joanne was lonely. Joan was
was she just she felt because she had the kids
and she was overweight, that she didn't have what it took,
you know, to keep a guy anymore, and then they
would use her and just dump her. It was painful
because I've seen and that's my sister. But there was
nothing I can't You can't help somebody when they're in
(11:44):
that kind of state of mind, you know. She just
you know, I just you know, I love my sister Jolian,
and she was just she was a good person. But
I just somehow she got off on a bad track
of trust in people. No self confidence. When I met Matt,
he didn't any self confidence either any time. He self esteem,
(12:04):
self esteem, self confidence. That's just the way we're raised.
We weren't raised with a lot of affection or attention
or showing anything. She was raised in an environment where
you're taught to marry find that man who could take
you out of that situation and give you a life
where you don't have to struggle so hard. Men worthy
solution to everything, even if they weren't the greatest man
(12:30):
with the best intentions or personality or integrity or decency.
It was a man, and the fact that it was
a man, it was very low standards. And one of
those men is Rodney Lincoln. Back in the day, Rodney Lincoln,
(12:56):
a white guy with an undeniably great head of brown air,
was five five hundred and twenty two pounds. Today Rodney
is gray and weighs a touch less Forgive me for
saying it this way, but you're not the largest man
I've ever seen. Five. You weigh less than I do.
(13:22):
A quick note about Rodney, he's now seventy seven years
old and dealing with some health issues, so sometimes it's
a little hard to understand him. Born in South St.
Louis on August nineteenth, ninety, Rodney is raised by his
mother Mary and stepfather Leonard, the self proclaimed mischievous prankster.
(13:45):
Enlist in the Navy after high school. It's one of
the shorter military careers I've ever heard of. Well, my
naval career lefted about by nine days. I didn't pass
see physical once I got the base and they gave
(14:05):
me home about discharge for medical reasons. So I came home,
tried out for St. Louis Cardinals and made it. I
played in the Mining League a year year a half.
What position did you play? Picturing short stuff? During that
time I met a young lady that was soon to
(14:28):
become Mrs Lincoln. He's young and love and she said, well,
you can't have a family and be away from home
all time and the ball player. That's the way life is.
So I gave up my dream. We got married and
(14:50):
eventually married with children. They end up having four kids, Rodney, Patrick, Leonard,
Kay and Kelly. Then in nineteen seventy two, life in
the Lincoln household changes abruptly. I got in trouble with
the police. I was quite a heavy drinker at time.
(15:14):
I was about drinking an argument, turning into a fighting man,
and you're dead. Tell me a little bit more about
what happened in nineteen seventy two. I can't say I
was drinking pretty heavy. I was down a boy. I
got into a argument with this guy over the pool game.
(15:38):
The guy is Russell Myers. After we had this load
and deal with the pool game, he left. Well, I
wasn't done drinking, so I've dated the boy. Some drinks later,
a friend of Rodney's tells him Russell just stolen axe
out of his truck, so Rodney goes after him. They fight,
(16:03):
then call a truce and decide to go drink together.
After stocking up on beer and sheep wine, they drive
to Jefferson Barracks, an Army and Air National Guard base,
cemetery and park three hundred and thirty seven acres on
the banks of the Mississippi River. So while we're drinking,
(16:24):
we gant argument again. The argument takes a turn when,
according to Rodney, Russell propositions him and I said no.
And this is when you really started getting angry. He
picked up a big rock and don't at me. I ducked.
(16:46):
I picked up a big rock into a ham You
didn't actually, I panic. Russell doesn't duck, and the rock
Rodney just through hits him in the head, killing him instantly. Frenzied,
(17:06):
Rodney takes off and pulls out right in front of
another car. Yea flame always great. Keep from hitting me.
You gotta be a good description. My truck that wasn't
well to police was coming in question me. At first
I denied it. I'm scared more than anything. Finally I
(17:29):
don't look, yeah I did it. We gott like me
to rock at me. I do rock at him him
and he didn't hit me. But there's actually more to
the story, something that happens before Rodney leaves the scene
and is questioned by police. Where was his body? Where
(17:53):
was Russell Meyer's body found? I dragged his body over
to the river, but him enter the river. They found
scorebone tissue, brain tissue, be they dragged Mississippi, but they
never didfined the body. And eventually I told him, you know,
(18:18):
yeah I did it. Why did you push his body
into the Mississippi River? Panic? I was scared, I guess
in the back of my mind, I thought if they
if I hid the body, nobody you know well from
what I heard the way they found the scene of
some guy who was walking on his dog and dog
(18:39):
found this stuff, and this guy called the bulleys. So
I was convicted of second degree murtive. I was rightfully
convicted of second degree motive. Rodney is sentenced to ten years.
He's let out in too drunk, parole sixteen month, got
(19:07):
the drinking agag got get in trouble again, wound up,
get my parole revoked. I went back, got out, I
made a bow. I would never go back to parodon again.
I have a question about when you drink. Were you
(19:29):
happy drunk? Were you an angry drunk? Did you have
a temper? I was a changeable drunk. Most of the time.
I was high, happy, go lucky and have another drink.
But there was something that made me angry. It was
all the way I could go from having a great
(19:52):
time to be ready to really hurt somebody. Some months
out of prison and vowing to never go back. Around
mid nine, thirty six year old Rodney meets thirty four
year old Joe and Tate. It wasn't no old big
(20:16):
love a bear anything, which he loves to have check
at at. But again, there's more to it than just that.
Let's go back. Tell me about when and where the
circumstances around surrounding you meeting Joe an Tate, Alex booking
(20:39):
a new boy. Rodney's working at Red Villa's Bar at
Broadway and Davis in South St. Louis, which kind of
a neighborhood. Boy were the old man had nothing to do,
go in and sit in there all day and talk
about the lives they live. Where beers are a dollar
(21:02):
twenty five and pool tournaments packed the locals in. And
it's during one of these tournaments Daniel Clenny brings in
his sisters Abby and Joanne. How did you know Daniel
at that time? I did. I met him there shooting pool, ah,
(21:24):
but I never really knew him. I did met him,
and then when he came in, I didn't recognize him,
but we got talking, and I got talking to joe Anne.
Abby makes it crystal clear she's not interested in Rodney,
(21:47):
but Joanne is. And when they left, she had me
peach paper with a name number on it. Well, I
clothed the ball that night I called the number. She's saying, yeah,
come on over. And that was the first time we
(22:07):
gotten together. And where did she? Where did you go?
Where did she live? She lived in i Plock. I
think she it was fair Street for street. I went
to her house. Basically we had sucks and I loved uh.
(22:32):
I've seen joe Anne maybe three or four times after that,
and then we kind of dripped their part and she
didn't call me. I didn't call her. Fast forward to
May around one pm. It's about a month after Joanne's murder,
(22:58):
and seven year old Melissa just picked out Rodney's photo
as the attacker. Here's Melissa again. I thought I was done.
I was so relieved, and then I found out that
we had to go round to the police station. About
three pm, on the second floor of police headquarters, Melissa
(23:23):
and four year old Renee, along with Detective Joe Bragoon
and three other investigators, enter one side of the lineup room.
Four white males enter the other, and we're standing on
this one side of this glass. And the detective explained
to me that I could see them, but they couldn't
(23:44):
see me. When he said, I want you to look
very carefully as these people. I didn't want to do
it because word that the bad guy would get me.
According to the police report, Renee picks none of the men.
Melissa picks number three. Rodney Lincoln at the lineup office
(24:19):
soon walked up to me and said, you're in big
trouble and got me took me back to show. Rodney
agrees to talk with investigators. He tells them about meeting
Joanne at the pool tournament. Then their brief sexual relationship,
and he tells them something else. One time I went
(24:42):
away there and she was worried by someone bothering her. So,
being a nice guy, I am much. Come over my
house tonight Into Gold came over my house while mom talked.
I was living m I took the two golds called
(25:03):
street to the park for a while. The two Golds
slept upstairs in one bed joint. I slept in another
bed upstairs. The next morning, I took him home, and
I think that was last time I've seen it. Remember,
(25:25):
Melissa said she had been to Bill's house. Bill lived
with his mom. She said they spend the night upstairs,
and they played at the park across the street from Bills.
That evening, they came by and told me that I I
(25:46):
was being charged with capital and murder and to count
the fish degree assault and my bond with one billion
dollars secured. I'm making forty up a week. I got
a million dollar by I knew I wasn't make a buy.
(26:11):
Rodney has fingerprinted and gives pubic hair and blood samples.
Joanne's family soon learns there's been an arrest. Here are
Laurie and not again. I just I felt like the
police know what they're doing. You know, they're the professionals.
They got all the um evidence and equipment and technology
(26:34):
to find the person. And thank god, now they got
the guy that did this, because I believe Melissa. If
Melissa could remember that much detail at seven years old
about a place she had been a year before, after
all the trauma she just went through, I had faith
in it. I believe she knew what she was talking about,
and I believe Nat felt the same way. Thank god
(26:57):
they got him. Thank god they got this guy. What
did you think when you learned Rodney Lincoln had killed
a man before? I thought that, you know, that just
reinforces he's a killer. If he killed once, what's going
to stop from killing again? That's what I thought, you know.
Back at the station, Rodney agrees to take a polygraph.
(27:20):
According to the police report, he's asked these questions, did
you kill joe An Tate? And did you stick a
broom a correctum soon found out that I've been't pay
the polygraph. It's not good there. Sure you lied by
everything including your name, my name. Wait a minute. Five
(27:47):
weeks later, Rodney Lincoln is indicted by the grand jury
and prominently displayed under his name in the indictment is
a new detail. Rodney is also known as Bad Bill
Rodney and Durs's plea of not guilty, and he tells
his family the same. Here's Rodney's daughter Kay, who was
(28:10):
thirteen at the time. I mean, the very first time
we went to seeing he absolutely I did not do this.
I need you to know I did not do this.
And that's all it took. He only had to tell
me what. In the months that followed, detectives obtained pubic
hair samples from thirty seven people, mostly men. Included in
(28:32):
that group are joe Anne's family members, Stevency, her neighbor,
and Tom Schultz, her ex boyfriend. But there are two
people who refused to give a hair sample without a
court order. Gary Lrose. He's the first person Melissa and
Renee's older sister asked about. And Billy Paris, a cousin
(28:53):
of joe Anne's first husband. But it may not matter
because Chief Criminalist Harold Slur states in a deposition that
a hair found on a blue blanket is microscopically similar
to Rodney Lincoln and dissimilar to the victims or any
of the other samples collected. Rodney remains in jail for
(29:15):
over a year until his trial begins on August eighth.
For the prosecution is six year veteran assistant circuit attorney
Joseph Bauer. By the way, prosecutors are called circuit attorneys
in St. Louis. For the defense, Robert Hampy, Rodney's older brother,
(29:36):
cleaned out his retirement fund and took out a second
mortgage on his home in order to hire the cocky
attorney with a reputation of winning tough cases. The jury,
diverse in gender and race, will be sequestered in what's
expected to be a less than two week trial. Aunt
Lourie is their day in and day out. The judge
(30:00):
talked to Renee and he said she was too young
to testify, that you know, they wouldn't allow her. But
I do remember sitting in the courtroom like third or
fourth rowback, and you know, seeing some of the testimony
Rodney Lincoln during the trial. I just remember seeing the
back of his head. I do remember I looked over
(30:21):
a few times to get a look at the guy,
but he just sat there like facing the judge. The
whole time. How was Melissa on the stand? Oh, Melissa
was very she was very confident in her testimony. Remember
in the trial, it was huge. First of all, the
room was so big, and I remember using my manners
(30:47):
and I used my words, and I was loud and
spoke out. And she believed what she was saying. I
could tell that even at seven years old, and that
she you know, she answered the questions. You know, you
almost thought she was like a little adult sitting up there.
She was sure that Rodney was the one that did it.
(31:10):
Day eight, both sides rest and the jury begins their deliberations.
But after two days they're deadlocked and a hung jury
is declared. The split is seven five and it's unknown
if the majority is for guilt or innocence. What did
you think when the it was a hung jury? Letdown?
(31:32):
It's a big letdown. And um, what I want to say,
justice just fell apart. Justice did not do its job,
you know, I mean, you know, how could they not
after Melissa's testimony? How could they not convict this guy
for Julian's murder? You know what? These people must not
(31:54):
care that are on the jury said they just couldn't
believe a kid or something like that. I don't know,
but I was like, this is ridiculous. This is just
absolutely ridiculous. Prosecutors are determined to get their guy and
waste no time. Just two months after the hung jury,
(32:16):
on October three, the second trial begins. I was so
mad we did this already. I don't want to talk
about this no more. I sorry. I felt really bad
about myself. There are people asked me why I couldn't
get help, and my family why I didn't get help.
(32:40):
There were was a teacher at my school that was
fascinated with my case, and she made me come out
and tell all the other teachers what happened to me.
I was so done talking about it. Trial number two
did Ury will be sequestered again, but this time it
(33:02):
consists of twelve white men. The same attorneys will be
trying the case, Robert Hampy for the defense and Joe
Bauer for the prosecution. And I'll note that even though
Joe Bauer had left the Circuit Attorney's office for private practice,
the state appoints him special Assistant Circuit Attorney for this trial.
(33:24):
But there are some differences this go around. There's a
different judge, a much bigger deal is made of the
hair that is microscopically similar to Rodney's. And there's a
surprise witness for the defense, a guy from Joanne's neighborhood,
Billy Hayes, who also had been considered a person of
(33:44):
interest in the case. He testifies that he had bumped
into a man in the Hyde Park neighborhood around the
time of the murder. The man, who was wearing bloodstained clothes,
threatened to kill him if he ever told anyone of
their meeting. Billy hay As goes on to say that
despite meeting with police multiple times, he had not said
(34:04):
anything about this until August, more than a year after
the murder, because he feared for his life. And he
says he has seen the man on at least one
other occasion since their first meeting and knows him only
as Dave. And for this trial, Melissa, the star witness
is encouraged to be even more dramatic on the witness stand.
(34:28):
I knew I had to get off the stand and
point out the madman. I scared and I got down.
Remember looking down, I had patent white patent choose a
ruffled dress. We're walking over and pointing riding out. It
(34:53):
was very dramatic and moving, very emotionally moving in the
prosecuted attorney asked her, you know, can you see the
who the man in the courtroom? Can you point out
who did it? And she came down off the standard.
She pointed at Rodney. She said, he did. This little
girl has the cahunas to stand across the room and
(35:17):
point at the guy that she, in her mind knows
murdered her mother and you know, butchered her and her
little sister. You know that's powerful. In closing arguments, special
Assistant Circuit Attorney Joe Bauer reminds hers of some of
the most gruesome details, saying, in part quote, Joe and
(35:41):
Tate was dead with the broom inserted into her body
some twenty eight. We know that Joe and Tate walked
around after she was stabbed because her feet on the
bottom of them had blood her blood. And I submit
to you that in order to insert that broom, he
had to wait until she was on the floor before
(36:03):
he attempted to do that. Bower goes on to say
a quote, the knife that was used on that little
girl's vagina was a blunt knife, not a sharp knife.
If you look at States Exhibit sixteen, this is a
blunt knife. All the other knives are pretty sharp steak knives.
This is what was used on that little girl's vagina.
(36:26):
And about Melissa's ability to I d her attacker, he says, quote,
when he has her on the bed with her little
legs around his hips and he's trying to kiss her,
do you think she could forget that face? Do you
think she could ever forget that face? Now it's the
(36:46):
defensive turn, and Robert Hampy starts by calling out all
the inconsistencies in Melissa's testimony. Now, that little girl told
everybody in life that she talked to that a man
named Bill did it. The littlest one said Bill did it.
Immediately after it happened. She told them they did it.
(37:07):
Now we've got Bill, who isn't Bill, Gary who isn't Gary.
But it's sure as hell isn't Rodney. The most distinctive
feature about Rodney Lincoln and he's a little kind of
blend into the woodwork kind of guy. The most distinctive
feature about him is the fact that he has a
finger missing. All of you have been around children, you
(37:28):
know how they think. You know how they act. You
know that that child would have remembered that had she
known that Rodney Lincoln was the man that did this.
He concludes by saying that no matter how sympathetic Renee
and the now eight year old Melissa are, the jurors
should not let that affect them while trying to reach
(37:50):
a verdict. He says, quote, those kids have been down
the road, and your heart has to go out to
the eight year old. But if you heard what she
said from you would not listen to it for ten minutes,
not for ten seconds. And you cannot accept such testimony
from a child. Considering how important this is, Bowers rebuttaled.
(38:13):
He offers up an explanation for Melissa's changing story, saying,
because of all the constant police questioning and the horrible
extent of her wounds, quote, she just gave them a
name bill to shut everybody up. And she didn't pick
Lincoln from a bunch of photographs because she knew him.
She saw several pictures of people her mother knew, and
(38:35):
she said she knew them, but they did not kill
her mother. On October seven, the fifth day of the trial,
jury deliberations begin. They start at ten am, and that
(38:57):
same day at p m they come back with a
verdict guilty of two counts of first degree assault with
a deadly weapon and guilty of the lesser charge of manslaughter,
not capital murder. Like the prosecution had argued for a
(39:18):
complete shock to everyone there. So when you hear the
guilty verdict, dumbfounded, it's done. Who was in the courtroom
for you the day of the guilty verdict was your mom? There,
(39:40):
my mom, my brother. Do you remember looking at them
on the way out. I remember I'm threatening their head
up high. She would reach back and your mouth the woods.
I love you. At John Hard Day, here's Rodney's daughter, Kay.
(40:11):
I remember my mom telling me that he wouldn't be
coming home. He had been convicted. And what do you mean, Well,
they said he was guilty. He's not coming home, and
you know, something in me broke that day. Rodney is
sentenced to two life terms for the attack on the
(40:31):
girls and fifteen years for Joanne's murder, all to run consecutively.
I was thinking he deserved the death penalty because to me,
that crime would would deserve that a death penalty. From
what I saw and from what happened I just felt
relieved that they got this guy, and now we can
go on with our life, you know, minus sister and
(40:54):
to damaged nieces. You know. So that was it, the
end of a horrible nightmare for Joanne's family and her girls.
Justice is finally served. Lock him up and throw away
the key. Right the road to healing can finally start,
not even close. The pain is just beginning. Artist told
(41:19):
the badman was in prison, and ne rafter you think
of him or talk about him again. My family reminded
me quite often that everything was done, I was safe
and nothing to worry about. But yet I always felt
like I was being watched. I never felt safer secure,
and I had nightmares all the time because to me,
(41:44):
there was no reason I feel safe and secure. Next time,
on the real Killer, I wrote all his charges all
over the exterior of this envelope. Ever wrote baby rapist,
I wrote man killer, I wrote predator. Melissa's on a
(42:04):
mission to make Rodney's life a living hell. Did you
want harm to come to him? I wasn't opposed to it,
and Rodney's daughter is equally as driven to save him.
I knew nothing about investigating. I knew nothing about researching.
I was just dumbfounded by the things I had found.
(42:27):
This isn't Oliver. I'm not done. The Real Killer is
a production of a y R Media and I Heart Radio,
hosted by me Leah Rothman, Executive producers Leah Rothman and
(42:48):
Eliza Rosen for a y R Media. Written by me
Leah Rothman, Senior Associate producer Eric Newman, editing and sound
design by Cameron Taggy, mixed and mastered by Cameron Taggy,
Audio engineering by Jesus c. Mario studio engineering by Tom
(43:08):
Weir and Kelly McGrew. Voice acting performed by Clayton Ferris
and Alex Salem. Legal counsel for a y R Media.
Gianni Douglas, executive producer for iHeart Radio Chandler Maze. If
you're enjoying The Real Killer, tell your friends about it
and leave us a review on Apple Podcasts or wherever
(43:30):
you get your podcasts.
Host
Leah Rothman
Popular Podcasts
40s and Free Agents: NFL Draft Season
Daniel Jeremiah of Move the Sticks and Gregg Rosenthal of NFL Daily join forces to break down every team's needs this offseason.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
Las Culturistas with Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang
Ding dong! Join your culture consultants, Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang, on an unforgettable journey into the beating heart of CULTURE. Alongside sizzling special guests, they GET INTO the hottest pop-culture moments of the day and the formative cultural experiences that turned them into Culturistas. Produced by the Big Money Players Network and iHeartRadio.