The Peoples Friend

That's right, Petko is back with sizzling hot takes (and grammatical innovations) about the smattering of finals (ATP & WTA, BJK and Davis Cup) to the retirements and coaching unretirments that have everyone talking. Is tennis like a drug? Was Bob Bryan right to bench his doubles specialists? Does Jannik Sinner deserve to be considered for the Sportsmanship award? All this and more in this tour de force episode.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:01):
Okay, we are recording. Hello everybody. I am in my
apartment right now in New York City, and I am
joined by She's back by popular demand, my friend, your friend,

(00:25):
all of our friends here. They are nice substance podcast
Andrea Pekovich.

Speaker 2 (00:29):
Hi, buddy, Hi, nice to see you. I think you
can call me the people's friend.

Speaker 1 (00:34):
Wow.

Speaker 3 (00:34):
Really humble, humble, humble, And I have to and I
hate to do this, but I have to do it,
and the if no way leads around it. You just
made me a coffee and I have to praise you
for it. It's so good. A barista was lost on you.
It's a creamy oatmeal clate slash cappuccino and.

Speaker 1 (00:56):
It's actually a flat white Oh is it? Yeah?

Speaker 2 (00:58):
And I not really, no one.

Speaker 1 (01:00):
It's pretty easy to do. You just stick it under
then espresso machine and then you stick a little stick
in there to do the milk. So basically what I
did was absolutely nothing. You'll be surprised, okay, what we're
able to do anyway, Hi, everyone, It's been a great
couple of months. Obviously, Caitlin could not join us today

(01:21):
because she has parental duties picking up her son Peter,
and you know she was busy from twelve on today
and Petco was busy prior to twelve o'clock.

Speaker 2 (01:33):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:34):
Yeah, anyway, we'll promise you it'll be the three of
us next week. Caitlyn. You will edit this so you
will understand to book yourself for Monday of next week.
But anyway, we wanted to get into a lot of
stuff today. Clearly the year is over, Pecko. The tennis
year is over.

Speaker 3 (01:51):
Yes, And I think the most important thing to talk
about firstly is you saw Wicked and I saw Adam Driver.
And I think this is monumental for you want to.

Speaker 1 (02:03):
Tell people what you love and why you love Adam
Driver so much.

Speaker 3 (02:06):
So I don't want to brag, but I discovered Adam Driver.
I saw him on Girls and it was before it
was popular. Yes, I am that type of person that
goes like I knew the band before it became big
and uh. And I saw him in this episode and
I called my sister and she can vouch for her.

Speaker 1 (02:25):
I remember that episode. Was that the one where he
was in It was naked or was?

Speaker 2 (02:28):
Yeah, he's in the.

Speaker 1 (02:30):
I loved Girls.

Speaker 2 (02:30):
It was so good. It was really good.

Speaker 3 (02:32):
And I called my sister. I said to her, I
just saw this actor. He's not handsome, but I think
he's going to be big. And he became big, and
that's my proudest moment because he's not traditionally handsome.

Speaker 2 (02:43):
Yeah, so you have.

Speaker 1 (02:44):
To have yet first I was like, this guy's random,
yeah exactly, but she was random too. It wasn't like
she was hot. Yeah, you know, it was just a yeah,
it was a good thing.

Speaker 3 (02:53):
Anyways, I went to this play it's called Hold Onto
Me Darling, and he's the lead. He plays a country singer. Yeah,
it sounds way worse than it is. It's actually really funny.
And three hours flew by, and when he came on stage,
he's so big and he's such a large man, not
taller like tennis players are a lot taller than he is,
but he's just he takes up a lot of space.

Speaker 1 (03:15):
And I was like, oh my basically, just so people
at home realize Petko's obsessed with him so much so
that she had her boyfriend sitting next to or watching
this play, and he's now kind of into him as well.

Speaker 2 (03:27):
He said he's so big, y Jesse. He was like,
he's so big, Oh my god.

Speaker 1 (03:31):
Anyway, I just actually came back from watching Wicked, and
I want to spoil it for everybody, but I will
spoil it by saying it's to be continued. I was like,
at the end of the movie, I was like, what
the fuck? I just sat through two hours and forty
First of all, Cynthia Riva is amazing in this I
highly recommend it just for her performance. But and I

(03:52):
had seen Wicked on Broadway and so I wanted to
see it. I want to see on the big screen.
There's certain movies you have to see on the big screen, right, because, yeah,
the wonderment of this movie just you know, the.

Speaker 2 (04:03):
Logo to the cinema.

Speaker 1 (04:04):
I went close here. Yeah, I went to Union Square
and but it's to be continued, So just be prepared
for that. People, you do not get to the end
of what happens.

Speaker 2 (04:13):
That's so weird to them for two hours.

Speaker 1 (04:16):
Yeah. But anyway, so we're going to have to put
up with Wicked Part two and the press releases for
the next year and a half.

Speaker 3 (04:27):
Oh yeah, I was speaking of press releases. Yes, I
just got the press release from the ATP of the
nominated players for the ATP Awards.

Speaker 2 (04:35):
Do you want to hear that.

Speaker 1 (04:36):
Yeah, let's talk about that, and let's talk about the
women's one as well.

Speaker 3 (04:38):
Okay, do you have the nominees here? Because I just
got them, so I have them, right, my friends? Okay,
so come back player after year, Matteo, Berrettini, Marine, Chilic,
Kani Shakori.

Speaker 1 (04:49):
Just three. Yeah, I don't know. What do you think
Bertini won a tournament?

Speaker 2 (04:55):
He won three tournament?

Speaker 1 (04:56):
Yeah, he did win three and he did win that
match against Kokanakas help them because I think the Australians
would have won the double doubles. I think so that
was a huge match for Italy because Cochanacus if he
wins that, I think Australia in the finals and I
think potentially Australia wins.

Speaker 2 (05:11):
I think that's so.

Speaker 3 (05:11):
Too, I think, because you know, in the end, the
problem is with this format mostly it doesn't come to doubles,
but when it comes to doubles, I really think Australia
has the strongest team.

Speaker 1 (05:21):
Well yeah, because we do though. The guys that play
for US for doubles are all major champions, you know.
And Max Purcell, who's not even who wasn't even playing
because he was injured. He wasn't even able to play.
But Jordan Thompson and Matt Ebden a great doubles player,
so you know that was a huge win. So yes,
so let's give it to Berrettini.

Speaker 3 (05:39):
Yes, that's what player of the year. Most most I
don't have that on my thig. Yeah, I guess, so
most improved Player of the year. Oh, and I think
there will be a controversial thing, but first most improved
player of the year, Jack Draper, Thomas Mahatch, Giovanni Petchi,
Perry Carr, Alejandro Tabilo.

Speaker 1 (05:59):
Oh what you think.

Speaker 3 (06:01):
For me? Jack Draper, because I like him so much
and I think he's awesome for tennis. I do think
the most improved player is Thomas Mahach, honestly because I
saw him last year.

Speaker 1 (06:13):
Why wasn't he on the list.

Speaker 3 (06:14):
It's a there, we will get to it. There's like
a weird thing as well, but honestly, it's a good
This is a good list. It's tough, yeah, because Draper
is fifteen in the world.

Speaker 2 (06:28):
Now you know, there's like all four are really good.

Speaker 3 (06:31):
Alejandro Tabilo played super well on Auckland this year, made
the Semis of Rome and a master. So anyway, newcomer
of the Year, Jakob Mansik or Yun Chang Chang just
too Chang, Yes, well, Stefan Atbek Spotsmanship Award, Carlos al KaAZ,
Grigor Dimitrov, Caspar Rude and Dominique team Wow.

Speaker 1 (06:55):
So they didn't put Sinna on that.

Speaker 2 (06:57):
Yeah, that's weird. It's a little do.

Speaker 1 (06:59):
You not put Sinner on? I'm sorry. Sinner's like the
nicest guy in the world on the Tennis Cape, so
he is. Have you ever seen him get the ships
on the Tennis Code Before you get it's because of
the drug scene before.

Speaker 3 (07:09):
Yeah, before you get into it, let me read to
you the coaches of the Year, the Coach of the Year,
and then we can talk about it, because I think
you have a point there. Coach of the Year because
malis from Alexey, Poppy Rin, Emmanuel Plank from Johanni Impecci, Pericr,
Michael Russell from Taylor, Fritz brett Stein from Tommy Paul

(07:30):
and James Trutman, Jack Draper No, Darren Cahill Well.

Speaker 1 (07:34):
Or the Italian guy or Yes, that's pretty crazy.

Speaker 3 (07:40):
It's because I think if he gets banned, they don't
want him to be on the list.

Speaker 1 (07:44):
Of Yeah, because also we haven't had that that final
you know, say from WADA.

Speaker 2 (07:50):
Correct, That's what I mean.

Speaker 3 (07:52):
I think they are basically I don't know if protecting
is the right word, but let's say just protecting maybe
even themselves.

Speaker 1 (08:01):
It's fucking stupid.

Speaker 3 (08:02):
From from a situation that he is the that he
has the Sportsmanship award and Darren has the Coach of
the Year award and then he gets banned for a
couple of months.

Speaker 1 (08:14):
Yeah, I mean, listen, if you're going to let him play,
and you're going to allow him to play, and you're
going to allow Darren to coach, then why are you
leaving them off that list. That's ridiculous. I mean I
can see it in sort of in a weird way,
but not really.

Speaker 2 (08:28):
I think it's just.

Speaker 3 (08:29):
A self protection and they don't want to have to
explain anything.

Speaker 2 (08:34):
It's the same.

Speaker 3 (08:35):
I don't have a good example, but they just want
to protect themselves from a possible PIRE disaster that the
guy who has the Sportsmanship Year award gets banned for
doping for a few months.

Speaker 1 (08:47):
Well, if he doesn't get banned and next year he
plays and he does get to the end of the year,
he should be on the Sportsmanship Award. I mean, honestly,
the guy doesn't say a peep on the court. He's
the most well mannered, well behind human being i've seen possibly.

Speaker 2 (09:02):
Hey hey, hey, he kicked.

Speaker 3 (09:04):
The wall in Cincinnati very gently in a fit of rage.

Speaker 1 (09:08):
Careful, but he make you my point for me? I mean,
come on, that was.

Speaker 3 (09:12):
The biggest like emotional outburst I've ever seen of it
when he like gently kicked.

Speaker 1 (09:17):
The wall and you're like, what's happening is using his mind?

Speaker 2 (09:19):
Yeah?

Speaker 1 (09:19):
Wait, was Alcohoriz on the list?

Speaker 2 (09:21):
He's on the list of Sportsmanship Award.

Speaker 1 (09:23):
Yeah, that's what I'm talking about. He broke racket this
year already. So anyway, I'm sure we're gonna have the
haters and we people on their listen and see they
never put Novak on there. It's like, well, because he
misbehaves on the court all the time, so it's kind
of anyway, let's not get into it.

Speaker 3 (09:39):
Well, he this year, he probably should have been the
closest because he played like three events and still.

Speaker 2 (09:47):
Made the atpple.

Speaker 3 (09:48):
I to me is honestly, from all the successes that
Novak Djokovic had, to me, the biggest success is twenty
twenty four, when he's close to turning forty place three events,
talks in every media interview, press conference how he doesn't

(10:09):
want to play anymore unless he's playing major tournaments and
winning major titles, wins the gold medal and somehow qualifies
for ATP finals. So he has to send the facts
from the malodies, being like, guys.

Speaker 1 (10:21):
I'm not good.

Speaker 3 (10:22):
I'm already on vacation and I can't believe all of
y'all were so bad that I still qualified as the
number fifth player in the whole thing.

Speaker 1 (10:31):
So you're worried about men's tennis, aren't you? A little bit?
We had a conversation a little bit. We had a
conversation at lunch yesterday where you said you're worried about
men's tennis, because, yes, Yannik and Alcoraz are incredible. They're
going to be around for a long time. Both of
them want to win a lot of majors and that's
hugely important. They're both really nice guys, so it's they're

(10:52):
great for the sport, but you're concerned about the rest.

Speaker 2 (10:56):
A little bit. So I was in entering.

Speaker 3 (10:58):
I've never worked, I was never in person at an
ATP final. I was a few times at a WTA final.
I was a substitute twice myself. I was there in
terms of media, but I've never been to an ATP finals.
This was the first time I was in to Reno,
and I was a little worried because I was like man, because.

Speaker 2 (11:18):
I always tried what I tried to do.

Speaker 3 (11:20):
I try to do an analogy with women's tennis, and
I was trying to think, what if Serena had played
thirty eight year old with an injury on her knee,
had played five or six I'm exaggerating. Obviously Nova played
a bit more, but not a lot more. Yeah, he
played very little events. Many of the events he played

(11:40):
he clearly wasn't motivated.

Speaker 2 (11:42):
He said so himself.

Speaker 1 (11:43):
How many did he play? Do you know?

Speaker 3 (11:46):
I don't know, but he played, Yeah, I would say
twelve maybe, But just think about Serena doing the same,
playing only twelve events.

Speaker 1 (11:55):
Yeah, she never played the US Open, Yeah, and didn't
play the WTA finals forever.

Speaker 3 (11:59):
Yes, but imagine just put put yourself in the same situation.
Serena only playing twelve events, not winning a title for
the first time in forever, and okay, winning the gold medal,
but it doesn't count because it doesn't go into the
ranking points of the ATP. And she makes that makes
the WTA finals. What do you think the media would say, Yeah.

Speaker 1 (12:19):
They'd be losing their mind.

Speaker 3 (12:20):
It would be how bad women's tennis? How can Serena
make make it? And so on and so forth. So
that's all I'm saying. And I was there, and it
was just it wasn't even that men's tennis. Isn't I
have to say, like every single guy.

Speaker 2 (12:33):
That was there I really liked.

Speaker 3 (12:34):
You know, there wasn't a single one that I don't
really like, So it's not in that regard. The only
thing that I did see was that Jannick Sinner was
so ahead of the entire pack, and when it was
clear that Carlos was out, it was already.

Speaker 2 (12:49):
A done deal. Basically, the only.

Speaker 3 (12:52):
Question was can he sustain the pressure of the home crowd,
which never really was a question. He didn't lose more
than four games per set.

Speaker 1 (13:00):
I mean, and did you see that record that Sinner
has right now not losing a set? I mean, Jesus,
Lord have mercy, He's like on fire.

Speaker 3 (13:07):
But I did, so it's difficult for me to say,
I wonder what you think, because it's difficult for me
to say whether they are just so good or whether
men's tennis doesn't have the depth in the top ten.
Right now, you know it's because today I was going
through the top five, and so for example, Medvedev and
Fritz are around seven five thousand points.

Speaker 1 (13:25):
Novak played eighteen tournaments this year.

Speaker 2 (13:27):
That's not bad.

Speaker 1 (13:28):
That's a lot. He played more than Medvedev. Oh really, Yeah,
he played the same as al Chorist and he actually
played one more than Janick Cinner. Okay, I take everything,
so take everything anyway.

Speaker 2 (13:37):
So that made for ten minutes. I can just retract.

Speaker 1 (13:42):
Actually, but in actual fact, that shows you because you
and I followed tennis a lot, you commentating it all
year pretty much, I am commentating a lot in the
fact that we didn't think he played that much. That
just shows you how. I don't want to say that
because I know I'm gonna get haters. Oh my god,
calm down, everybody that thinks so I hate Novac. I
don't hate Novak. That just shows you how bad a

(14:03):
year he had when you think for his standards, yeah,
for his standards, but I mean, his standards are not
going anywhere. This is who he is. He's the greatest
player of all time. And the fact that he won
one tournament this year it was the Olympics, is pretty shocking.
And he was in one final Wimbledon, like that's it,
Like what are we doing here? Like that is crazy shit.

(14:25):
So and the fact that he did actually play more
than Sinner and you felt like he didn't play this
year badly. He played this year, Well.

Speaker 2 (14:33):
Scratch that hole argument, Caitlyn. You can delete everything.

Speaker 1 (14:37):
No, no, no, But I think it's interesting that you
thought he didn't play a lot and he's still qualified
for the ATV finals. I think the bottom line is
it will be interesting to see who steps up. I
want to know your thoughts. I have my thoughts on
Taylor Fritz. I do believe he can win a major,
but I feel like his net game has to improve
significantly because of the fact that when he hits one

(15:00):
to three great shots in a rally like Sinner, like
al Karez, they're willing to go, oh, i've got the
guy on the dead run. I'm going to go in
now and finish the point at the net. And they're
super confident with their volleys, both of them. I give
Darren a lot of credit for helping Sinner, because I
know his improvement on volley's has been outstanding in the
last twelve months, and I think that's actually the difference
maker in his tennis because as somebody who could volley

(15:23):
very well, if I had those groundstrokes and I saw
an opportunity to run in, I would run in every
single time. And I think that Carlos and Yannik have
that perception now, like oh shit, it's time for me
to go in. It's time for me to finish this
point off. I can't play five more shots like this.
I don't feel like Taylor's comfortable at all in any
way going forward. He had one great volley against Verev

(15:44):
that actually helped him win the match. Was when he
was down love forty, I think at two all in
the third, and he came in at he was down
love forty, got it back to thirty forty, hit a
great shot, almost was already halfway in the court, had
to go in, and he ended up hitting a looked
a little very scared, very volley for him, very basic
volley for someone like me, but for him that was
and he made it, and I was like, God, if

(16:06):
you could just do that more and more, you would
win a lot more matches. And I just feel like
it's the one area that stops him from being a
possible Grand Slam contender, because I do believe he can
do it, but he needs to improve that part of
his game. That's where Alcaraz and Sinner differentiate themselves with
the other guys that they're such great movies. They're so
good around the court. They both rip the shit out

(16:28):
of the forehand and the back end Sinner serve is massive,
but he can volley and he can really volley. Now
that's the difference, and I think if Taylor's going to
make that next step, he has to improve that area
because I think he's the only one that can disrupt
those two at Grand Slams.

Speaker 3 (16:42):
Yeah, I agree to a certain extent, Actually not to
a certain extent. I agree one hundred percent in that regard.
I do think that he plays too much through the court.
I don't think he goes for angles at all, and
when he runs into somebody like Janick Sinner, it's actually
mind blowing to me that he keeps be things there.

Speaker 2 (17:00):
It's a mental thing.

Speaker 3 (17:01):
Because Veref also moves really well in the back of
the court.

Speaker 1 (17:04):
And feels comfortable in the back end. The back end,
that's the thing. Yeah, because I kept watching it going
why in he said it after the match? He said
it after the match he said someone I think it
was Laura, I don't know who asked him the question,
but about sort of backhand back and he's like, look,
I'm super comfortable doing that, and I'm not afraid because
his forehand is so much better than Zverevs. Yes, but
he it's almost like he's like, I dare you to

(17:27):
beat me with your best shop because you can't. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (17:29):
So it was really interesting because Paul Anacon was I
was in calling the match for Germany, but I was
texting people in the US asking like, Hey, what is
Paul saying because he was calling the match for a
tennis channel.

Speaker 1 (17:39):
Yeah, which is weird to me.

Speaker 2 (17:41):
It is weird.

Speaker 3 (17:42):
But on the other hand, and he kept saying apparently
in so many words. He didn't say it in that,
but Taylor is playing the tactically most stupid match he's
ever played, because he kept going to the back end
of Veref.

Speaker 2 (17:53):
But he won.

Speaker 3 (17:54):
So But what I wanted to say, that's not the point.
I'm trying to make the point that I'm trying to
make is that he needs if you want wants to
beat somebody like Yanick Sinna, who he keeps running into
as like the end opponent who he can't get past,
he needs to start getting to the angles because he
hits the ball well through the court, but it doesn't
bother Yanick at all because.

Speaker 2 (18:12):
He's such a good mover with his little fox legs.

Speaker 3 (18:15):
He's always like in balance and just goes like and
then and then he he doesn't miss the fourth point.
He doesn't even miss the fifth shot, not even the eighth,
but then the twelfth he does miss and Yanick doesn't.

Speaker 2 (18:26):
And then that's the difference. That's why he lose like.

Speaker 3 (18:28):
Four and four or four and three, you know. So
I think that's but just I wanted to make one
point while we're at Taylor. So I was looking at
the top five today and what really stood out to
me Taylor. And so Taylor is number four, the Neil
Medvedev is number five, and they add five thousand points
roughly one has five thousand, one hundred, the other has
five thousand and thirty or something, right, and then Carlos

(18:51):
and Zverev are around seven thousand points, and then Yanick's
like a like, and Yanick has almost twelve thousand.

Speaker 2 (18:58):
Yeah, but this is a huge so already, so this
is what I'm saying.

Speaker 3 (19:01):
I do think Carlos Sasha, you might not like him,
but Carlos, Sasha and Yanick have set themselves apart from
the pack, and the points are telling the story because
two thousand points between Carlos and Taylor and Daniel. Two
thousand points is winning a Slam tournament and Carlos and
Sasha loose first round, which won't happen. Yeah, that's a

(19:24):
lot of that's a big difference. Two thousand points is
winning a Grand Slam tournament.

Speaker 1 (19:29):
I know, I know it's gonna be interesting to see
what happens. Because of course, Yanik book End of the Year,
which I predicted. Go back and listen, I predict crazy.
He's ahead four thousand points, and he did not Wimbledon
or the French. I mean for his standards.

Speaker 3 (19:44):
Yeah, I mean, Sammy said the French. He didn't make
the clutters at the wim But for example, that's you say,
but four thousand points, that's winning two slams. So Zverev
would have to win aust Open and French Open, and
Yanick wouldn't have to play at all, which can happen
technically if Devada decides to ban him. But this is

(20:06):
the how much ahead he is of the rest of
the pack. If that wasn't when Carol Vozniaki was that
much ahead in women's tennis, it was like, how bad
are the others? So that's what my question was to you,
are the others so bad? Or are these guys so
fucking good?

Speaker 1 (20:23):
I think it's a combination. I think it's a combination.
I think it's a little bit of both, to be honest,
which is a combination, I don't know.

Speaker 2 (20:31):
I mean, I think the definition of a company.

Speaker 1 (20:33):
I think we'll see it next year. I think we'll
see what happens with Taylor next year, because I think
you got a taste for it this year. You commented
on him losing at the US Open, how he looks
so mad, and that's good. That's good that he loses
in the final and looks like he's pissed, you know.
So he's making slow incremental improvements, you know, and so

(20:55):
that's huge. And I think all the guys behind him,
like Ben Shelton, France, Stiafo, Tommy pol all these guys
have pushed him to be better because I think he
has that he has that edge. He comes from a
very you know, sporting family, comes from a very successful
tennis family. So he has the mindset of he wants
to be better, and so I think that's great. And
the thing that I like about it he has had

(21:16):
Michael Russell with him the whole time and he's stuck
with him. He has said, oh, I need to change.
Then again, maybe he does need a change to go
that extra step. I don't know, but I like the
fact that he's stuck with the same team. He's improved
tremendous amount in the last twelve months. And I like
Taylor a lot and I think he's great for the game.
So we'll see what happens.

Speaker 2 (21:36):
Well, and you will be happy.

Speaker 3 (21:37):
I talked to Boris Becker lately and he said, to me.

Speaker 1 (21:41):
Did you ask him how the clinker was? How the
clinker was?

Speaker 2 (21:45):
What's the clink the jail? He didn't. I didn't know.

Speaker 1 (21:49):
How was it in there? Buddy? Did you He didn't
ask him at all?

Speaker 3 (21:53):
No, No, I just want to ask him about tennis
because he has a great tennis mine.

Speaker 2 (21:57):
I like, I really like talking to him about tennis.

Speaker 3 (21:59):
And he said he thinks that among the tennis reasons
why Yanick is so great and why he's so ahead
of the rest, he says he has the perfect team
by his side. He says he plays the least tournaments.
When he feels tired, when he feels injured, he pulls out.
He keeps his energies, he manages his emotional and he
had this black cloud above his head and then then

(22:22):
he's like, yeah, I didn't sleep so well and it
was bothering me. Imagine what he does next to you
when he is sleeping well and it's not bothering. He's
getting rest, Like what he's going to be twenty thousand
points ahead of everyone.

Speaker 1 (22:32):
And look, he won this tournament knowing that he still
had the water shit o over his head. So yeah,
I'll listen. I said it years ago. I'm not tooting
a horn that I wasn't blowing a long time ago.
I told Darren Cahill when he had the opportunity and
you know, told me he was gonna work with Yanick.
I'm like, oh my god. It was even before Yanick
that Darren was gonna work with him. I'm like, this

(22:52):
guy is so freaking good. Once he kind of gets
into his body and you know, he gets a little
bit stronger. Blah blah blah. Oh he had everything, everything
and the mentality he keeps his ship together, which is
why he should have been on the Sportsmanship Award. Oh god,
it's so great and he's such a nice guy. All right,
So that's the atp side of it. Davis Cup finished.

(23:15):
How about the fucking Italians man winning Davis Cup and
the Billy Jean King Cup with Jasmine Polini and Bronzetti
coming through. They came through in that doubles that under
armed served from Sarah Rani. I was there witnessing it, going,
my god, I can't believe I'm watching this doubles. But

(23:36):
the fact that they figured that out and.

Speaker 2 (23:38):
But she plays world doubles.

Speaker 1 (23:40):
Sarah is the best doubles player on the court.

Speaker 2 (23:42):
Actually, she knows what she's doing.

Speaker 1 (23:43):
I would say, outside of her surf, she's the best
doubles because did.

Speaker 3 (23:46):
We talk about it? When she was in the mixed finals,
she was like the best I.

Speaker 1 (23:51):
Called the match she was the best player on the
court because I'll tell you why. And this is why
it's frustrates me it's a little hard to watch women's
doubles is that they don't played doubles. They're just hitting
and the lob and they'll poach sometimes. And like when
I played, you had to get the ball. We understood
because everyone vollied really well. Back fifteen years ago, right

(24:12):
twenty years ago, we had everyone that played singles was
a good follier, Kim Cleisters. You know, we're talking like
all these players that came before Lindsay Davenport. They were
all very competent at the net. And so you can't
hit through somebody at the net. Like if you played
me and tried to hit through me, you're not hitting
through me. I'm gonna make one volley, two volleys, three volleys,

(24:32):
and you're gonna finally go fuck it. I'm gonna love you.
And guess what we're like. Now, she's gonna lob. You
just knew as a good vollyer where to move. Didn't
matter how hard you hit it. The only problem was
if you got it to my feet right. So if
you got it to my feet, now I have to
hit volley up right. And now because everyone was a
good vollier. They would hit it their feet and they
would run forward and they would smash it. Right. So

(24:55):
I would take a ball and I'd just feed it
to your feet with a little chip or a little dip,
and then run in and go bang with a volley,
right because you're not gonna be able to so good
volleys would just dink it back, which is why if
you ever see the Brian Brothers play, you know, sometimes
I do these little dinky dinky dinkies with people and
you're like, why don't they smash it? You can't smash
it when it's below the net. You gotta it's kind

(25:15):
of like pickaball, you know, stupid pickable when you just
ding ding ding. That's what good doubles players can do.
They can get it to your feet and then they
close and finish it right. That's what Sarah run. Let's
not talk about that. But like Sarah Rani when she
was playing I she thinks, like me from the baseline,
didn't have a lot of power. So I'm like, oh,
she's gonna dip this there and she's gonna come in,

(25:35):
And sure enough, she dip it there, come in and
bang with the volley. I'm like, she plays old school doubles.
These idiots that don't know how to play at the net.
She toys with them because of that. It's not anything
to do with power. Doubles is, which is why Martina
Hingis was such a good doubles player. She didn't have power,
but she would toy with you. She would dip it
at your feet, she would lob you, she would dip
it at the feet again, come in and volley it

(25:56):
out of the air. That's what nobody does anymore. All
these I was trying to hit the ship out of
the ball and it's like, oh my god, you're so dumb.
You're leaving yourself in a bad position by doing that.
But Ranie dip takes her time, I think the way
she thought, and I'm like, oh, even when she slices
and comes into the net with these girls at the
baseline and I'm like, they'll try and hit the shit
out of here, and she'll just volley it through the

(26:17):
net player. It's like simple doubles execution. And that's what
she does, and that's why she's the best doubles player
probably in the world right now, even with other girls winning,
you know, the championships and all this. She still plays
very classical doubles. If she had a serve she would
be dominating. Still in doubles, she has no serve, literally none.

(26:39):
So anyway, the Italians unbelievable. Their association must be so
pumped to win. Has that happened before the time.

Speaker 3 (26:48):
I will just tell you, So, I think the last
time we had a mate.

Speaker 2 (26:53):
The last time was Russia.

Speaker 1 (26:54):
I think, oh, really really, yeah.

Speaker 2 (26:56):
Something weird.

Speaker 3 (26:58):
Maybe not, but it was something surprising. But I think
twenty twelve or thirteen was the last time.

Speaker 1 (27:04):
So.

Speaker 3 (27:05):
I was in Torino when Jannixino one and the president
of the Federation of the Italiana, was holding a speech
and he it was like the most Italian thing you've
ever seen. He was like no, he was like crying
and speaking and like gran the ten.

Speaker 2 (27:22):
I don't speak Italian.

Speaker 3 (27:24):
I understand most of it because I played a lot
of and that's one of the reasons why they are
so good. I placed most of my Challenger tour was
in Italy because it's quite close to Germany. Oh, you're
too interested, But it was quite close to Germany, so
I could take the train. You know, it wasn't I
could take the train. I would spend three four weeks
in Italy play all the tournaments, and you could play.

Speaker 2 (27:43):
And that's the great thing.

Speaker 3 (27:44):
You can play from a ten K to one hundred K.
You can play everything and in between. So wherever you
stand in your rankings, you will find a way into
a tournament.

Speaker 1 (27:54):
And the beauty of Europe though, that's why you guys
are so lucky. Guys is so lucky. You can just
like jump on a train, get in a car, travel
three hours and be in another country playing in challenges
like for us, stupid little Australians trying to get on
a train. No, no in Australia, but not the need.

(28:15):
You know that you need to be playing all the time.
So we got to get on a plane and go somewhere.

Speaker 3 (28:19):
No, but the all of Asia Pacific is brutal, like China. Asia,
just Asia is so hard. I don't know how you
guys do it, honestly. But just to finish the president guy,
so he was like crying and I could just understand
Grande grand Italia, Grande tennis. And he finished it up
with like Viva la Talia or something like this, and

(28:39):
everyone's cheering and crying and I was like, we had
a political rallia, we had a tennis tournament, but it
was so it was so Italian, and I was like,
this was a week before day one Davis Cup and
Billy Jim caing Cup.

Speaker 2 (28:52):
Imagine the speech he would give. Now, this is definitely pumped.

Speaker 1 (28:57):
Losing their mind. But that was credible. It's shame for
Eager because she played really well. She beat Paulini and.

Speaker 2 (29:04):
She was you said that was the best matches.

Speaker 1 (29:07):
Yeah, she was very well. She was not good in
the first set and she hung in there and she
played great in the end and I gave her a
lot of credit because she was you know, both her
and Pauline had to be exhausted, exhausted going into Davis
into a fed Cup as wou sinner. I mean the
fact he didn't lose a set, you know, did what
he did for the Italians after the year he's had,

(29:29):
I mean, desperate to have a break. But then again
he is playing golf now. I don't know if you
saw this latest Darren k Hill posted on his Instagram
and now it's everywhere and I made a comment on
it because Darren, I so I can play some golf
and his swing was not good and he completely missed
the ball with a driver. I go, I don't know

(29:51):
if that's actually possible to do what he did so good.
He literally hit under the ball. He only hit like
the t Can you send this? It's horrendous.

Speaker 2 (30:02):
I love that he's not good at something at least.

Speaker 1 (30:05):
Yeah literally, I know, because he's a great skier and
all the things. But oh my god, this is so funny.
And I said to Darren, I said to Darren, I
texted him, I said, listen, tell Yannick, I'll play eighteen
holes of golf for his six kings money because I
know I'm taking out that six million dollars. Yeah, I mean,
that's just crazy. I want just on Davis Cup, a

(30:26):
couple of interesting decisions with the dumbness.

Speaker 2 (30:29):
Yeah, what did.

Speaker 1 (30:30):
You think about the Americans and Bob Bryant part of
shit on Twitter?

Speaker 3 (30:35):
I saw the controversy, and I see the point. I
will This might sound really surprising, but I will defend
Bob bryan That's fine. Reason, Yes, there are a reason,
and the reason that I have for it is Jan
Nicksonna and Matio Berattini. So basically, Italy did exactly the
same thing on the same day and it worked out. Yes,

(30:56):
they didn't play the best doubles in the world, but
they played a top ten pair in Argentina and they
took out Andreva Vasori and Simone Bolelli, who were qualified
at the ATP Masters, so they were one of the.

Speaker 2 (31:07):
Best at all slairs.

Speaker 1 (31:09):
Remember indoors, it doesn't matter.

Speaker 2 (31:12):
They did exactly the same thing and it worked out.
They won.

Speaker 3 (31:15):
Janick Sinner and Matteo Bertini never fucking played doubles in
their lives together, never played doubles at all, and they
beat a good doubles pair, So it works out.

Speaker 2 (31:25):
And I understand.

Speaker 1 (31:25):
Janicks Iner not played doubles a Davis Cup A you sure.

Speaker 2 (31:28):
He has played doubles, but not with Mateo. Not with Mateo,
but they rarely have a play at all.

Speaker 3 (31:33):
I don't think has Yanick ever played outside of Davis
Cup of Doubles match.

Speaker 1 (31:37):
Yeah, but I mean, are you going to break those guys?

Speaker 3 (31:39):
But this is what I'm saying, And so I understand
completely Bob Bryan's decision because I don't think Regif Frahm
and crycheck right, I don't think they would have beaten
the Australian pair either. And I think you have a
bigger chance if Shelton closes his eyes and has a
crazy good surf day. I think you have a better
chance to somehow get in the tie break and hope

(31:59):
one of the Aussies chokes.

Speaker 1 (32:01):
Yep.

Speaker 2 (32:01):
I think that's a bigger.

Speaker 3 (32:02):
Chance than having Regifra and you know doubles better, so
you are much more qualified than this. But I understood
his reasoning behind it. I don't think he explained it well.
I think he didn't want to explain it after having lost.
But I could understand where he was coming from, and
I thought the piling on was a little unfair, even
though I completely understand where it comes from, because you

(32:23):
have to back your doubles players right, because the next
time they are on court, they will feel horrible.

Speaker 2 (32:29):
Because they weren't back and they will lose, you know
what I mean.

Speaker 4 (32:48):
I'm sure it was a very difficult decision, especially to
someone who was a double specialist and you know, arguably
the greatest of all time to not play his doubles players.

Speaker 1 (32:59):
I just wonder what practice was like through the week.
I know that's I know that Rajhiev and Austin have
not been playing great of late, so maybe they didn't
have the confidence going in there. But then I think
in some regards and don't pick them, you know, don't
take them, just take another singles player. Maybe I don't know.
I don't know who was available. So that's all stuff

(33:21):
and all speculation.

Speaker 5 (33:22):
Yeah, and that's a good point because we never know
what maybe practices, we don't know. Maybe Austin went up
to Bob and was like, bro, I feel my either
I'm not playing well or even I'm feeling my wrist today.

Speaker 3 (33:35):
I don't think that can be one hundred percent. We
don't know, and Bob is not going to tell us
because he needs to protect That's the task of a
captain to protect your players. But sorry, go on, I
just wanted to say, it's a good point that you're making.

Speaker 2 (33:46):
We don't know all the details are.

Speaker 1 (33:48):
Yeah, and also we don't know in the practice what
was happening in practice. Maybe Austin and Rajiev were playing
against these guys in practice and losing. You don't get
a lot of opportunity to practice doubles at Davis Cup
or fed Cup. You maybe set aside a day or
an afternoon. You know what it's like like two hours
and then the player set and you know, maybe the

(34:10):
guys smoke them. I don't know. I'm sure Bob was
hoping to hold Shelton serve all the time. Here's the problem.
Tommy doesn't have a big serf, you know what I mean,
And you can get on his serf. He has a
good serve, but you can get on it. And you know,
Jordan Thompson is one of the best returners in the game.

(34:30):
He's not going to miss a lot of returns. And
Matt loves pace as well. And I think by the
looks of the way they were playing, they really set
out to go at Ben at the net. He wasn't
really efficient there. He's not going to move that much
on Tommy's serve. I just felt that there was a
lot of discombobulation. Again, I don't know, we don't know
what led up to it, because apparently Bob said that

(34:52):
he made the decision literally after the singles. Yeah, so
I'm wondering if if you were going to play singles players,
I would have played. Sorry, I would have played Ben
and Taylor and Taylor me too, because then you you
hopefully are not going to.

Speaker 3 (35:05):
Lose exactly you get to the tie break and then
the tie break, anything can happen. And Taylor just was
in the final of the ATP and Ben thinks the
best well yeah, and Ben thinks he's the best player
in the world. Anyways, I think he's looking at you
and he's like, his twelve thousand points, I should have
fifteen thousand.

Speaker 1 (35:21):
There's no question. There's no question that Ben, you know,
has the hootspa. I mean, he really does believe and
it's important for of course it is.

Speaker 2 (35:27):
That's great.

Speaker 1 (35:28):
So yeah, so some interesting choices there. I also think
that it was interesting that that Leyton Hewitt picked cock
and Arcus as well. And listen, Cocky had a number.

Speaker 3 (35:40):
Can I please before you go into cockin kus Austin
cry Check and rejief Rama playing Jordan and Matt, who
do you think when you head to bet you would
think so.

Speaker 1 (35:51):
But having said that, well because they beat you know,
Matt and John Pierce from Australia beat those guys in
the final of the Olympics on clay, so you know,
maybe he felt like Matt has hit their number. You know,
Matt plays well against them. We are lucky that we

(36:11):
have a plethora of great doubles players that play can
play for Australia, including Kochanakas who's one of Grand Slam
with Nick Kirios. So, and I know that all of
the guys, all of our Aussie guys, would be comfortable
playing with one another. The only ones that are not
super comfortable are Max Percel and Matt Ebden because they
don't really get along personally. And guess what, they won

(36:34):
Wimbledon together. So even if you threw them together, they're
gonna play. Well, I mean they did play. They have
played tires since then, I think one of the last
ones to qualify. No, they're just that's why they stopped playing.
They didn't really get along.

Speaker 2 (36:47):
They don't have anything in time.

Speaker 1 (36:49):
No, Max is a little weird, Matt's a little weird.
Maybe they were just like, yeah, you're both weird.

Speaker 2 (36:53):
Oh weird, don't match.

Speaker 1 (36:55):
Our weirds don't match. But my point is, and they
have played since and for Australia, and they want a
very big tie getting into the finals. So we had
like four people we could play easily, and so it
is really as you know, as especially now with the
format being best of three, it's like if you can
win one singles and get it doubles. Doubles is as important.

Speaker 3 (37:16):
That's why I honestly think Australia is most the most
dangerous team.

Speaker 2 (37:20):
If not on paper by Rang, I.

Speaker 1 (37:22):
Would have played Poprin. Why didn't Layton play?

Speaker 3 (37:25):
Yeah?

Speaker 1 (37:26):
I would have played Poperan. He just won a tournament indoors.
He's had an amazing year. He arguably could be up
for the most proof player this year. I mean his
coach is up for Coach of the year. So I
don't understand that Bertini.

Speaker 3 (37:43):
But I wouldainst it. I would have played right because
Tanasi beat. I wouldn't have played Shelton.

Speaker 1 (37:50):
Yeah, I would not have played Yeah, but it was
Shelton's first match well.

Speaker 3 (37:53):
And Tanasi on a good day he plays incredible anybody,
but his not known to be able to hold this
quality for more days, just because he's so injured dollar.

Speaker 1 (38:06):
So I would have played Popron against Beratini. Having said that,
he had an opportunity to win.

Speaker 2 (38:11):
He hit a.

Speaker 1 (38:12):
Terrible missed the terrible forehand to lose his serve in
the third set. But I was thinking even to throw
Poprin in then against Janick Sinner, There's no way demon
is beating sinner. Absolutely no chance, no chance, but no
one's But I would have thrown in a lightning rod.

Speaker 2 (38:30):
I just said, for somebody who can.

Speaker 1 (38:34):
I mean, on a big indoor court, Poparin is probably
gonna hold serve even against I don't know. There are
all questions. That's what white captains, you know.

Speaker 3 (38:43):
And this is what and this is the thing that
I hate about these jobs. I mean not hate about
these jobs. It's great for them, but hate about the
the assessment of these jobs.

Speaker 2 (38:57):
If you do it right, your legend or nobody mentions you.

Speaker 3 (39:01):
But it's like now that Yannick won for Italy again,
it's not like, oh Philippo Balandre, grand de Filippo, it's
grande Yanick. He want us the Davis Cup again. So
they're like, oh, he didn't mess up. And if you
lose like Bob Bryan, now you're the escapegoat to messed
everything up. And it's a really unthankful job being a
captain of a Billy Jean King Cup or a Davis

(39:23):
Cup team.

Speaker 2 (39:24):
And I just want to say, of all.

Speaker 3 (39:26):
Tennis players, no, I really I don't think I would
just because it's not even because I need to have
the gratefulness of the people, but just the combining these persons.
And I think now it's a little easier, but back
in the days when you had five players and anyone
can play singles, you know what I mean on two days,
like you could technically have four different people playing. You

(39:48):
don't want a competition in your team in the five
days that you're spending together. But that's basically what you
have as a captain if you're if you're the depth
is quite you know, Yanick obviously doesn't have to fight
for a spot. But if it's Rattini, Mussetti and freaking KOBALI.

Speaker 1 (40:03):
What was the same in for Australia, it was Cocinakus
and Popera.

Speaker 2 (40:07):
And exactly higher.

Speaker 1 (40:08):
Yeah, so that was a big call for and that's
what it works on the first day or give him credit,
but I think that Poperham would not have I don't
think Popham would have lost those matches. I think he
would have beaten Barattini, I do, I do. I think
he has the firepower and you know, it was definitely
the big surf big four hands between Barattini and Cocinakus
because both of their back ends are so average.

Speaker 3 (40:30):
Yeah, well, I just I think I just want to say,
like a shout out to these Davis Cup and Billy
jim Kin Cup captains. I think it's easy to criticize them.

Speaker 1 (40:40):
And the coaches because the coaches and captains really do
converse about the decision.

Speaker 3 (40:44):
Yes, but I just think, yeah, exactly, well, just the
team beside us managers whatever.

Speaker 2 (40:48):
I think.

Speaker 3 (40:49):
I like in the Premier League they call their managers
because they are managers in a way. You know, they're
not just coaching on like, hey, this is what you
need to do technically. I think just in general managers
and I think it's easy to criticize them. But when
you're in the heat of things, emotions running high, players
coming to you complaining about ship they have, it's the

(41:10):
end of the season. I'm sure cooking eggs is like
my right hip hurts, and Popylaren is like my left
shoulder herd and the you know and maculum.

Speaker 2 (41:19):
Yeah, but that's what I mean.

Speaker 3 (41:20):
You know, it's the end of the season and you
have to deal all of that, and you make a
wrong decision or the other guys are just better, and
then the whole of Twitter and the universe jumps on you.

Speaker 2 (41:31):
Is like Oh you're so dumb. Why didn't you do X,
Y and Z.

Speaker 1 (41:34):
By the way, time to get onto Blue Sky. A
lot of people have mentioned it to me, Blue Sky.
I will download time to get you on blue Sky.
We're moving away from Twitter, Okay, I'm losing followers by
the day, which is great. On Twitter, the means the
bots are getting tossed and people are leaving X and
so I'm blue Sky is much more fun. And just

(41:56):
letting everybody know as we speak, yes, she is literally
downloading it right now because I had a lot of
people ask me to get you on there.

Speaker 3 (42:04):
Okay, so just so you know, I have every single
social media on my phone and.

Speaker 2 (42:11):
I use zero. Yeah, I use my Instagram and.

Speaker 3 (42:14):
That's it, because we're gonna get you on I'm a
basic bitch.

Speaker 1 (42:18):
Yeah, I know you are. Listen something that you wrote
about in your incredible substact that I read today Thank You,
which the Raffer retirement.

Speaker 2 (42:27):
It was great.

Speaker 1 (42:29):
I want you to talk about it a little bit,
and then I want you to give me your rougher stories.
And then I was obviously there and Marla, yeah, I
watched him play his last match, but just I don't
know your overall thoughts on the retirement finally of ruff illness.

Speaker 3 (42:43):
Yeah, so I was so sad and so happy, And
I think what I tried to work out in the
piece is that how hard it is to let something go,
even for the grades, even for Ruffer, even for Roger arguably.
Do you think he wanted to have his last notch
and leave cup losing to Francis Tifo. No, he didn't,
but you know, it's so hard to let go. And Boris,

(43:07):
I know I keep bringing him up, but I just
saw him for a lot of times now lately and
he said to me, it's like a drug. Tennis is
like a jazz for him, and he said, winning titles
is a drug playing on center court.

Speaker 2 (43:19):
You know what I say, Tennis.

Speaker 1 (43:20):
This is what I tell people. Being a professional athlete
is legal addiction. That's what it is. Being a professional
athlete is legally being addicted to something that is not
a drug. And it is so hard. If anyone's had
a drug problem or a drinking problem, it's really fucking
hard to give up because that high of being high

(43:44):
is so good, and when you low, it's like all
you want is set high again. And being an athlete
and being in tennis by it's all about the win
and the win there's no better feeling than that feeling
of accomplishing something that you dream about. And then it's
really hard to walk away knowing you never going to
have that feeling again.

Speaker 3 (44:01):
Yeah, and I think, no, it's a one hundred percent true.
And I think with Raffa, you could see when do
you term it an addiction? When it becomes hurtful for
your life? And you could tell that he was starting
to neglect his being, Like you could see that it
was unhealthy. He was injured all the time, but you
could see it in his face. And Ruffa is not

(44:21):
the most relaxed person.

Speaker 1 (44:23):
It's like Stephanie just it's interesting because Stephanie just dropped
the mic and walked away because she was hurting. His
body was hurting, her knee was hurting, her foot was hurting,
her back was hurting. She was in love. She just
met Andrea, but they were dating, but she was it
was so she just stopped, she just walked away.

Speaker 3 (44:41):
Yeah, but I think that, but she's very different to
She is a different person.

Speaker 1 (44:46):
She didn't love the spotlight. She just loved playing, whereas
Raffa was I think Ruffa is more similar to Stephie
than Roger or Novak or Andy, even the way he retired,
just the whole circumstances around. It was more about playing
at home, being with his family. There was no other

(45:07):
players there. It was just his teammates and it was
kind of low key and it was kind of like
for Rafa that was enough, Yeah, do you know what
I mean? For Stephanie it was like, I don't need
all that pump and so like the first thing I
said to her and she told me she was retiring,
Like wait, what, I'm like, the US opens in like
three weeks. What don't you doing there? And she's like, nah,
I'm good.

Speaker 2 (45:28):
Yeah. So yeah, But I think with Rafa, I think.

Speaker 3 (45:31):
The just coming back a little bit of the addiction.
And to another thing, I think with Rafa, why was
so hard for.

Speaker 2 (45:38):
Him to retire?

Speaker 3 (45:39):
Is And I written that about that for a German
newspaper and I saw some people google translated it and
became completely this combombulated what's the.

Speaker 1 (45:51):
Name discombobulated discombobulated where people he tried to say that
weld is impressive.

Speaker 3 (45:56):
It was just a terrible translation. Don't Google translate German text.
The grammar is absurd, so don't do that anyway.

Speaker 2 (46:03):
So what I argued.

Speaker 3 (46:05):
Is Rafa is the best athlete in the history of
sports who was always anxious. Right, some tried to mint
it into I said he's the best athlete in the
history of sports.

Speaker 2 (46:18):
That's not what I said.

Speaker 3 (46:19):
But he is the best athlete in the history of
sports who was always anxious.

Speaker 2 (46:23):
He was always afraid.

Speaker 1 (46:24):
I saw him in.

Speaker 2 (46:25):
The fourteenth year of him winning Roland Garros.

Speaker 3 (46:30):
He had lost there once or twice, right, two matches
in one hundred years, and he played a lucky loser
in the first round, and he was playing for I
swear to god, I ran into him.

Speaker 2 (46:43):
That's why I mentioned it, and you asked for Rafa stories.
I ran into him.

Speaker 3 (46:46):
I was going out of the gym going to warm up,
and he was warming up right in front of Philip Shati,
you know that little hallway, and he looked like he
was being brought out to be beheaded by the King
of Spain, Philippe or whatever his name is. I swear
to god, that was his I was like, this guy, yeah,
is panicked. He's terrified that he will lose to a

(47:09):
lucky loser.

Speaker 2 (47:10):
And then he wants sixty one six two six one.
Do you know what I mean?

Speaker 1 (47:14):
I have a different I love that that's your thought process.

Speaker 2 (47:18):
Yeah, can I just finish it? And then you you go,
and then you can go, oh the way.

Speaker 3 (47:21):
And I think why the addiction, what made him addicted
is he's anxious to lose and when he wins, and
that's almost a bigger emotional reward than the triumph. It
gave him relief. And that's why I think he was
more addicted than others. You know, they're like, I'm gonna lose,
I'm gonna lose, I'm gonna lose.

Speaker 2 (47:39):
Oh my god, I'm winning.

Speaker 3 (47:40):
Oh my god, I'm winning. And Ega is the same. Yeah,
I agree, one hundred percent. I think Ega is psychologically
the same person as Rough and that's why she's also
so hard to beat because she has this every point
mentality and I think.

Speaker 1 (47:51):
It's why she admires him the most.

Speaker 3 (47:53):
Yes, she identifies with him, and she doesn't know why.
She thinks because he's great, but it's because they are
scared when they go on care and I don't recommend
it as a way of being, but I think that's
what makes them great and I think that's what makes
them more addicted to it in a way, because the
moment of relief, Oh my god, I did that my
anxieties didn't come true. I think is stronger than the

(48:14):
triumph of winning.

Speaker 1 (48:15):
That's interesting. That's interesting. Did I read your stubset stack
and that's how you ended it by saying he was
basically fear based, And I think it was a combination
of that. I do think he was anxious, which is
why he had that OCD like the bottles had to
be perfectly placed and the tags had to be And
I told you the story how at the Australian Open
they had a sponsor water sponsor that was a Chinese

(48:38):
water sponsor, but during the pandemic, they couldn't get the
water in Oh my god, and so they had to
buy So the company had to give money to Tennis
Australia and so they then went out and bought water bottles.

Speaker 2 (48:48):
Oh my god.

Speaker 1 (48:49):
But they couldn't have the water bottle whatever it was
Aquafina or whatever, you know, Fiji or something. They couldn't
have the sponsor of that. They couldn't have the the
tag on the right because that was not the sponsor,
right so they wanted the water bottles just to be a.

Speaker 2 (49:07):
Water bottle with nothing on.

Speaker 1 (49:09):
Rufa was the only one that was allowed to have
the tag on because he needed it to be able
to turn it and have it the same right. So
I think it was a combination of fear and anious
anxiousness and O c DNUS. But I also think he
had the most incredible respect for any opponent. Yeah, So

(49:31):
I think that you know, even when you you know,
when you they would ask him in press, well, this
guy you're playing, he's a lucky blah blah blah whatever,
he would be like, yeah, you know, in his mind,
he's like, yeah, he's a great player. I need to
he respected like everyone that he played against. He didn't
take anything for granted. And that to me is a
combination maybe a fear, but also of unbelievable humility for sure.

(49:57):
And I just think he had incredible respect for the game.
He never took anyone for granted. Yeah, and you know,
and he didn't. He didn't even on clay, even on
the court, he'd barely lost a match on. So for me,
his it's undeniable to me that to me, he's the
greatest fighter I've ever seen. I've never seen him tanker

(50:17):
point and I've seen plenty of the top players give
away a set, tank a game, not give a shit
from you know, even Roger sometimes he would you know,
get the ships for a game or something and you know,
get a little bit chirpy or you know. Novak's tossed
games left and right at times. You know, I think
he to me, Rafa and Stephie were the same person.

Speaker 2 (50:40):
Interesting.

Speaker 1 (50:40):
They never quit on a point. They didn't take anything
for granted. They respected everyone they played against, They respected
the game, and every point was important to them, from
first point to last point, if they were winning or
they were losing. They never ever ever gave up on
a point. And to me, those two were the greatest
I've ever seen at that for sure.

Speaker 2 (51:00):
Interesting. Yeah, yeah, that's a great And.

Speaker 1 (51:04):
I was so bummed I didn't bump into him and Maga.
I went to watch the last match.

Speaker 2 (51:08):
How was that? Did you cry?

Speaker 1 (51:11):
I didn't cry, I because I was hoping to see
him again because they he lost the singles and then
alcaz One and then what what made me the happiest?
And if anyone follows me on Instagram, I did do
a live from that match, and the thing I got
the most joy out of watching in the doubles because
the guy has lost seven six seven six. Was watching

(51:32):
Rougher watching that because I've never seen a guy more
pumped watching another crew trying to win a match. I mean,
he was up out of the stands. He was like
pointing his finger for there is no doubt in the
next two or three years he will be the captain
of the Davis Spain. He was yelling, shitted David Farrer.
He was calling him over, he was going up, he

(51:54):
was saying stuff to him. It was like he was
yelling at Alcaraz. He was like pointing his finger. He
was way. It was just it was so great to watch,
and all of it was great. None of it was
over the top, no, none of it was like inappropriate.
He was just so into it. He fucking loves tennis.
He loves tennis, and that's I know Roger loved tennis.

(52:18):
But I think Roger loved tennis and the whole thing
about his fame, and he loved the people, and he
loved being loved. Rafa just loved to compete. I mean,
the effort that he put in in the singles match,
knowing he played like, what five matches in a year.
I mean, he was trying so hard to the ends

(52:38):
of the earth of that match and he had no
chance of winning.

Speaker 3 (52:41):
Imagine Rafa had qualified for the that would have been
with like five matches.

Speaker 1 (52:47):
But it was just He's just you know, we'll wrap
it up on him. He has always been my favorite player,
and I think the reason is because to watch him
give every single thing, and then I and then we
started seeing all the everyone started doing these compilations of
his greatest points for his career. Oh my god, I

(53:08):
forgot how fast he was, yeah, because you know he's
gotten slower. Yeah, And that's one thing you could see.
And his forehand was a bit short, but fucking hell.
Some of these best points ever that were put together
by like Tennis TV and the ATP and all this
sort of stuff. Some of the shots that he ran
down and hit, Oh my god, I'm going to miss

(53:29):
him so much.

Speaker 3 (53:30):
And I will have the hardest of hardest takes here.
I think it could have been much better if he
had less fear in him, because I think, because have
you ever watched in practice he plays in practice ten
times the speed that he played in the matches because
he got so tight and everything got short, and sometimes
he would you could get the glimpses. And that's why

(53:52):
I loved the match up between Novak and Ruffa, because
Rauffa respected Novak. He knows he's the greatest player that
he's ever played. And it's interesting because I talked to
Tony Nadal and I asked him who do you think
is the best and he said, I think Novak And
he said the reason for that is Novak sees the
ball like nobody else.

Speaker 2 (54:10):
He says, like.

Speaker 3 (54:11):
Novak is the only one who can Rafa's forehand. Novak
is the only one. So he took He gave an example.
He said, the first few times when Rafa played Novak,
Novak tried to take the forehand Rafa's forehand on the
rise with his back end and he like mistimed it
a few times and was late on it. And then
in the third match he had perfect timing every time

(54:33):
on the back end. And he said he had the
best eyes. And I think sometimes you caught glimpses of
what Rafa that Rafa was able to play.

Speaker 1 (54:40):
Even better, which is crazy.

Speaker 2 (54:43):
Because they went Novak.

Speaker 1 (54:44):
They all yes, it's all improved so much.

Speaker 2 (54:46):
Yes, I had to, they had to. Yeah, And that's the.

Speaker 1 (54:48):
Difference between great and very good. This is a very
good try and get better at their weaknesses, but they
kind of like still there. Like you know, Zverev's forehand,
for example, is if he can make that more solid
under pressure, under pressure, because he still hits it great,
but it's always under pressure. Get to a tiebreak three
old bang bottom of the net twenty feet out, you're like,

(55:10):
this guy can't. You got to be able to do
that under pressure. And those guys, because under pressure all
the time, just get better and better at their weaknesses.
I mean, Raffa improved Roger's backhand because he had to.
He had to step in and hit his back end
back and he did. You know, Novak's forehand was not

(55:32):
good when he was young. It was all over the place.
His serve was terrible. Never misses a foehand. Now arguably
his foehands better than his back end, you know.

Speaker 2 (55:39):
And he happened.

Speaker 1 (55:40):
It's all the things. And I don't know I could
talk about Rafa.

Speaker 3 (55:45):
Sorry how much we are already talking for Yeah, we're
pretty good. I haven't seen each other for so long.

Speaker 1 (55:51):
I know, I know, I know, we've got a lot
to to rant on about, but I do want to
throw out a big thanks to a beautiful resort in
Spain in Maliga. Before I went to Marlaga, I went
to Marbaya and I went to the Punta Ramano resort.
Have you been no? Oh?

Speaker 2 (56:08):
God?

Speaker 1 (56:08):
Apparently Stephie used to go here a lot. I didn't
know that. Somebody told me that.

Speaker 2 (56:12):
Oh, I told you that it's closed.

Speaker 1 (56:15):
Did you go to my Mabaya? That's where she was
in but she was the.

Speaker 3 (56:19):
German coach and Klaus Holfseas who has a place a.

Speaker 1 (56:23):
Police well Novak apparently has a house in Ma Bay
and practices at this Punta Romano. Gabby Ya Mugarutha used
to hit there and then also Parla Badosa still practices there.
So it's a beautiful Club's like at least twelve clay courts.
There's a couple of padal courts and two hard courts,
and apparently a lot of players Dan Evans they go
there and they hit on that hard court prior to

(56:44):
going to the straight open. But I just want to
throw out a big thank you to the Punta Ramano
resort because they gave me a couple of nights there
and it was great. I loved it before I went
out to Malaga. Malaga is a beautiful city. Fed Cup
will not be back there, but Billy Jin King, I can't. Sorry,
I shouldn't say fed Cup, but you were in it
for I was in it for twenty something years. But
the Billy Jean King Cup was great. Billy Jane was

(57:05):
over there. She just turned eighty one. Billy, I know
Billy and Lana listened to the podcast, and I just
want to Billy Jane eighty one, just going strong.

Speaker 2 (57:15):
I just want to.

Speaker 1 (57:17):
Than any of us.

Speaker 2 (57:18):
I know she does.

Speaker 3 (57:19):
She has more energy than any Like when I wake
up in the morning, I think, like, what would Billy
Jin King? But I want to say one thing. I
didn't know she listened, but if she listens here. I
wrote my second book. It's called Time to Get Out
of Here. I just roughly translated it. It's about my
last year in tennis. And in my thank you notes,

(57:41):
I thank three people or three person let's say, and
it's Billy jan King, It's David Foster Wallace and my family.

Speaker 1 (57:52):
Damn it, I didn't make that.

Speaker 3 (57:53):
And I wanted so in my first book, I thanked
everyone that it was very personally important to me. But
in the second book, I wanted to think like figures
that are bigger than me, and that I have to
be thankful for life choices I made, and Billy jan
King was one because if she hadn't been there in
women's tennis, there wouldn't have been a career that I

(58:14):
could mourn, because the whole book is about mourning an identity,
a career, something that gave me agency in life, that
gave me INDEPENDU conduit for your life.

Speaker 1 (58:25):
Sorry, yes it was your conduct.

Speaker 3 (58:26):
I wouldn't I nothing in my life would have been
possible in the way it was because I played tennis
and I wasn't a Grand Slam champion.

Speaker 2 (58:33):
I wasn't that great, but I was good.

Speaker 3 (58:35):
And that's why I thank Billy jan King because without her,
I wouldn't even have a career to mourn, And so
I just wanted to say that she's in my thinking.

Speaker 1 (58:42):
Well, it's interesting because the last part that I put
out was Billy Jane and Alana, and she said that
she feels like well, actually, her publicist Tip said he
doesn't feel like tennis. Plaies take the tennis with them anymore,
like the history of the tennis with them anymore. Right,
So then they go to China or they go to
Riot and they take all this money. They don't take
the history of tennis, they don't take the history of
what women fought for with them anymore. They just go

(59:04):
collect the check and get out of there. I think Cocoa,
for someone of her age, understands it really well. I
think she's very aware. I think it's of course being
of a person of color as well. I think she
understands very much the fight for equality, the fight for women,
clearly to fight for black and brown and people of

(59:25):
color of this country.

Speaker 2 (59:26):
Well, I will say so much. Black women were the
only ones who didn't let us down here.

Speaker 1 (59:31):
Yeah, I would drop a mic, but I can't drop
this one because it's too expensive. But you are correct,
let's not even get into that. But yeah, so I
think that you know her saying what she said and
you saying just what you said there. Hopefully there are
still people that are playing on tour that think, like you,
understand the history of tennis.

Speaker 3 (59:52):
And hopefully they're better tennis players than I was, because well,
it translates, yeah, you know it is in the tennis
is about results and what you win. And if Coco
wins more, Coco will have a bigger voice, and her
voice is very important, very important things to say.

Speaker 1 (01:00:08):
And one of the things Billy said was that she
was so well, not Billy, she wasn't in Saudi Arabia,
but a lot of people said that a lot of
young girls really gravitated towards Coco.

Speaker 3 (01:00:18):
Yes, she had the biggest fans, I called them, and
she definitely had.

Speaker 2 (01:00:22):
The biggest fan base.

Speaker 3 (01:00:23):
I actually wrote it in myself there it was like, ah,
people somehow really warm to Coco, and I think they
feel that she stands for something more than just well
she does.

Speaker 1 (01:00:32):
Because she does, and she's proven it with her own words. Anyway,
we could talk for hours. We're not going to because
we're gonna cut this one short now, and we are
sure we're going to cut this one off now. But
what I will say is we will talk about what
we think about what's going to happen next year, what's
gonna happen in Australia and all that next week, because

(01:00:53):
we don't want to jump the gun there because we
could stand here and talk for hours well, and Kathin
will be with us, and Caitlyn will be and we
will talk all about what we feel like is going
to happen next year, what to look for, what you
and I are up to. I want to talk about
your book and how that's been going. You've been publicizing that,
which is why you've been away from me so long.

Speaker 3 (01:01:11):
I know, I'm so sorry, but now I'm here, I'm
glad and read myself stick finite Jess.

Speaker 1 (01:01:17):
Yeah, it's honestly, it was really good. I read it
every single week this week. I wanted to read it
because I knew you coming on and I loved your
take on Raffa. And you've got a lot of great publicity,
great responses. People were like, oh, I've read a lot
on it, but no one said how you put it.

Speaker 3 (01:01:33):
Well, that's so many things have been written and said
about him. Of course, he's one of the greatest tennis
players we've ever had. So I wanted to have something
and that's why I think. I think maybe Rafa fans
won't like it, although a lot of did, but just
because I wanted to also work out why it was
so hard for him to like go you know because
it's easy.

Speaker 1 (01:01:53):
To It's addiction. Yeah, it's an addiction.

Speaker 2 (01:01:55):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:01:56):
And we love our sport.

Speaker 3 (01:01:58):
We loved and we loved it, and Rafa fucking loves
tennis and that's one thing you can I think you.

Speaker 1 (01:02:04):
Myself included Rafa. We loved the competition as well, and
there was there's nothing like winning a tennis match and
putting yourself on the line. So we're gonna finish it
now by saying, Rafa, thank you so much for everything
you gave to this sport, for inspiring so many young
people to come along and play this sport with the
heart and the respect and the class that you did.

(01:02:27):
You were a special, special tennis player and we are
going to fucking mess you, yes, my friend. Okay, guys,
thanks for listening to us this week. We'll be back
next week with more Shenanigans here on the podcast. Appreciate you, Bye,
choos Ye