Stephen A. Smith is a New York Times Bestselling Author, Executive Producer, host of ESPN's First Take, and co-host of NBA Countdown.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:03):
Let's get started with the conversation, not on politics, not
on sports, but on race. Conversation I heard recently between
Chris Cuomo of News Nation, a conservative commentator.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
At Tucker Calson.
Speaker 1 (00:15):
The interview was a wide ranging conversation that touched on
a number of topics, including quotas and DEI don't believe me,
Tuck A callson aired at first, and then obviously NewsNation.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
Neared aired a snippet of it. Take a look at
what I'm about to show you.
Speaker 3 (00:30):
It became obvious that the meritocracy was producing an incredibly
lopsided society, and that freaked people out and it felt
unfair to them. The meritocracy produces an outcome that you
may not be ready for, actually, because it's rooted in
nature and you can't change it. So these are super
complicated questions. But I know that a system that rewards
(00:53):
people on the basis of race and punishes others on
the basis of race creates hatred and division.
Speaker 1 (00:58):
I was very uncomfortable hearing that from Tucker Calson. Let
me be very very clear, meritocracy created a lop sided environment.
Ladies and gentlemen, I don't know how you took it.
But let me tell you how I take it. We
live in a white power structure society, white men running
this country, if not this world. And what Tucker Calson
(01:21):
basically said there it was. If you're saying a meritocracy,
that that is what existed and when that existed, before
the likes of affirmative action, before civil rights legislation, before
dei et cetera, et cetera. If you're saying a meritocracy
created a lop side of society, and that lop side
of society was in the favor of white folks, then
(01:45):
essentially what you're saying is white folks got their stuff
on merit and everybody else maybe.
Speaker 2 (01:51):
Not so much.
Speaker 1 (01:53):
That's how I took it.
Speaker 2 (01:54):
That's what I do. What y'all here? What what? What
y'all here?
Speaker 1 (01:57):
That's what I heard. That's what I heard. That is
why I was so uncomfortable speaking to Chris Cuomo last night,
because I was a guest on his show. In the
immediate aftermath of about seven or eight minutes of Chris
(02:18):
Cuomo talking to Tuck A. Calton, I had not seen
it up until that moment, and they needed me to
opine on it. So before I even delve further into
this subject, let me air for you what I said
to Chris Cuomo last night in the immediate aftermath of
hearing what took A Colton had to say. Check it out.
He was dismissive of the cult of the racial construct
(02:43):
notion that you brought to his attention, not realizing how
palpable and how insulting. Dare I say that would come
across to so many African Americans in this country. The
fact of the matter is, is that covering the world
of sports. Think about it from this perspective. They were
telling folks that you're telling the black man he couldn't
play the quarterback position. You were telling the black man
(03:03):
he couldn't be a head coach. You were telling the
black man that he couldn't be a leader of men.
Let's not get started with what you were telling the
black women. And over the course of time, we've seen
how exceptional people from all races are and can be,
and we see how deficient others can be. Then you
also have to take into account the kind of society
that we lived in.
Speaker 2 (03:22):
We lived in.
Speaker 1 (03:22):
Remember I got left back in the fourth grade because
at a first grade reading level, okay, And I was.
I had undiagnosed dyslexia that I ultimately had to overcome.
What was one of the challenges of overcoming it. I
was in the streets all the time because my mother
had to work two jobs, because my father wasn't handling
his business appropriately, and as a result, there was a
weight on the shoulders of my entire family. And so
(03:46):
as a result, sometimes you found yourself running the streets.
Sometimes you found yourself being preoccupied with things you shouldn't
be preoccupied with, and as a result, that was taking
up your time instead of you hitting the books and
doing what you have to do. He didn't mention any
of those kind of things. He didn't mention any of
the potential obstacles that could lie in weight. He simply
wanted to lean on race, talking to the potential intelligence
(04:09):
or lack.
Speaker 2 (04:10):
Thereof of a race of people, or what have you.
Speaker 1 (04:12):
And I just said to myself, Wow, he really really
seems a bit detached from reality. And I was being nice.
I was being very very nice. I could have said
some other things, but I don't know. I'm like that.
Don't want to accuse the brother anything, But the bottom
line is I was very uncomfortable listening to him, because
when you use words like lopsidedness to describe a meritocracy,
(04:36):
and that meritocracy vastly favored people that look just like
Tucker Calson, and you're lamenting the state of affairs that
exist in society today, and you're pointing a figure at
DEI diversity, equity inclusion, as if that's what's gotten black
folks opportunities, not their merit. If you're alluding to stuff
like affirmative action, civil rights legislation, or anything else that
(04:57):
occurred in the aftermath of Jim Crow laws that certainly
was suppressive, and you're pointing to those things to indicate
there's a problem in our society. What you're saying is
it's a problem because we're no longer judging anything on merit.
So that means whatever's going on in our society today,
(05:18):
whatever opportunities are lacking for quote unquote the white establishment,
then excuse me, it can't be about merit. Let's get
back to merit. And this is to me what Tucker
Causon came across as not getting let's say, for example,
thirty positions was filled. Because if you watch the interview.
(05:42):
He was talking about, you know, hey, what's up with
all of these communities? Black community is Hispanic community. We
just individuals with people with people. All of us are
at the mercy of a system. We're a nation of rules,
nation of laws. We're supposed to be. And if that's
(06:04):
what's going on in our world, well, who's hovering over it?
Who's the puppeteer pulling the strings? Do we not see
the Democrats right now lamenting everything about Donald Trump's power?
Do we not see the influence that power can wield?
Do we not see a guy in Elon Musk who's unelected,
(06:28):
his position is overdoged, does not require Senate confirmation or
anything like that. Do we not see the power that
he's willing when he's essentially an adviser and a consultant
to the president, but clearly somebody who gets the president
to do a lot of what he says. Power matters,
influence matters, and when it's almost always in the hands
(06:52):
are people that look like Tucker Carlson, where does that
leave the.
Speaker 2 (06:56):
Rest of us?
Speaker 1 (06:56):
If a Tucker Carlson is on the airwaves spewing that
that's the kind of meritocracy we should want.
Speaker 3 (07:04):
Is it just me?
Speaker 1 (07:06):
Is it just me? And then you want test scores,
standardized test scores. I get that part. If everybody is
experiencing the same conditions, same qualities as schools and education,
same quality of teachers, same qualities of life, having a
(07:27):
walk through the streets of America to get to school.
Does everybody have to take mass transit? Does everybody have
to take the train? Does every you have to does
everyone have to walk through impoverished neighborhoods, rough streets, crime?
Does everybody have the same limited amount of distractions?
Speaker 2 (07:49):
Yes?
Speaker 3 (07:49):
And no.
Speaker 1 (07:52):
The answer to that would be no, which means the
conditions are not the same, which means to just use
something generic that's supposed to be applicable to everyone when
everyone's situations, the circumstances, and what is available to them
and what they're exposed to is not the same. In
(08:16):
Tucker Costs World, none of that should be taken into
consideration based on what I heard, What does that leave us?
That's where I'm coming from. That's my problem with what
he said. That's what made me incredibly, incredibly uncomfortable, because
(08:39):
when you see people lamenting politicians who are in office
and looking at them, their personality, their experiences, the influence that.
Speaker 2 (08:49):
They wield, and where their soul lies.
Speaker 1 (08:54):
When you found yourself listening to Tucker casts and as
I listened to him last night, I just got the impression, Wow,
this is not a dude that sees much outside of
his bubble that he either is willing to relate to
(09:17):
or have compassion for. I might be wrong with that.
I don't know. I'm only going by what I saw.
It looks very uncomfortable because his voice resonates, and it
resonates with people who have influence, And if they're listening
to him, what kind of influence are they willing to exercise?
(09:41):
And what role is he playing in it. He's no
longer at Fox News, no longer as he in Namas NBC.
He's got his own social media following. He's free as
a bird to operate with relative impunity to say whatever
it is he wants to say.
Speaker 2 (10:03):
That's pretty damn scary if you don't fall under the
umbrella of merit or of meritocracy that he feels you should.
Just my thoughts based off of what I saw
Let's get started with the conversation, not on politics, not
on sports, but on race. Conversation I heard recently between
Chris Cuomo of News Nation, a conservative commentator.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
At Tucker Calson.
Speaker 1 (00:15):
The interview was a wide ranging conversation that touched on
a number of topics, including quotas and DEI don't believe me,
Tuck A callson aired at first, and then obviously NewsNation.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
Neared aired a snippet of it. Take a look at
what I'm about to show you.
Speaker 3 (00:30):
It became obvious that the meritocracy was producing an incredibly
lopsided society, and that freaked people out and it felt
unfair to them. The meritocracy produces an outcome that you
may not be ready for, actually, because it's rooted in
nature and you can't change it. So these are super
complicated questions. But I know that a system that rewards
(00:53):
people on the basis of race and punishes others on
the basis of race creates hatred and division.
Speaker 1 (00:58):
I was very uncomfortable hearing that from Tucker Calson. Let
me be very very clear, meritocracy created a lop sided environment.
Ladies and gentlemen, I don't know how you took it.
But let me tell you how I take it. We
live in a white power structure society, white men running
this country, if not this world. And what Tucker Calson
(01:21):
basically said there it was. If you're saying a meritocracy,
that that is what existed and when that existed, before
the likes of affirmative action, before civil rights legislation, before
dei et cetera, et cetera. If you're saying a meritocracy
created a lop side of society, and that lop side
of society was in the favor of white folks, then
(01:45):
essentially what you're saying is white folks got their stuff
on merit and everybody else maybe.
Speaker 2 (01:51):
Not so much.
Speaker 1 (01:53):
That's how I took it.
Speaker 2 (01:54):
That's what I do. What y'all here? What what? What
y'all here?
Speaker 1 (01:57):
That's what I heard. That's what I heard. That is
why I was so uncomfortable speaking to Chris Cuomo last night,
because I was a guest on his show. In the
immediate aftermath of about seven or eight minutes of Chris
(02:18):
Cuomo talking to Tuck A. Calton, I had not seen
it up until that moment, and they needed me to
opine on it. So before I even delve further into
this subject, let me air for you what I said
to Chris Cuomo last night in the immediate aftermath of
hearing what took A Colton had to say. Check it out.
He was dismissive of the cult of the racial construct
(02:43):
notion that you brought to his attention, not realizing how
palpable and how insulting. Dare I say that would come
across to so many African Americans in this country. The
fact of the matter is, is that covering the world
of sports. Think about it from this perspective. They were
telling folks that you're telling the black man he couldn't
play the quarterback position. You were telling the black man
(03:03):
he couldn't be a head coach. You were telling the
black man that he couldn't be a leader of men.
Let's not get started with what you were telling the
black women. And over the course of time, we've seen
how exceptional people from all races are and can be,
and we see how deficient others can be. Then you
also have to take into account the kind of society
that we lived in.
Speaker 2 (03:22):
We lived in.
Speaker 1 (03:22):
Remember I got left back in the fourth grade because
at a first grade reading level, okay, And I was.
I had undiagnosed dyslexia that I ultimately had to overcome.
What was one of the challenges of overcoming it. I
was in the streets all the time because my mother
had to work two jobs, because my father wasn't handling
his business appropriately, and as a result, there was a
weight on the shoulders of my entire family. And so
(03:46):
as a result, sometimes you found yourself running the streets.
Sometimes you found yourself being preoccupied with things you shouldn't
be preoccupied with, and as a result, that was taking
up your time instead of you hitting the books and
doing what you have to do. He didn't mention any
of those kind of things. He didn't mention any of
the potential obstacles that could lie in weight. He simply
wanted to lean on race, talking to the potential intelligence
(04:09):
or lack.
Speaker 2 (04:10):
Thereof of a race of people, or what have you.
Speaker 1 (04:12):
And I just said to myself, Wow, he really really
seems a bit detached from reality. And I was being nice.
I was being very very nice. I could have said
some other things, but I don't know. I'm like that.
Don't want to accuse the brother anything, But the bottom
line is I was very uncomfortable listening to him, because
when you use words like lopsidedness to describe a meritocracy,
(04:36):
and that meritocracy vastly favored people that look just like
Tucker Calson, and you're lamenting the state of affairs that
exist in society today, and you're pointing a figure at
DEI diversity, equity inclusion, as if that's what's gotten black
folks opportunities, not their merit. If you're alluding to stuff
like affirmative action, civil rights legislation, or anything else that
(04:57):
occurred in the aftermath of Jim Crow laws that certainly
was suppressive, and you're pointing to those things to indicate
there's a problem in our society. What you're saying is
it's a problem because we're no longer judging anything on merit.
So that means whatever's going on in our society today,
(05:18):
whatever opportunities are lacking for quote unquote the white establishment,
then excuse me, it can't be about merit. Let's get
back to merit. And this is to me what Tucker
Causon came across as not getting let's say, for example,
thirty positions was filled. Because if you watch the interview.
(05:42):
He was talking about, you know, hey, what's up with
all of these communities? Black community is Hispanic community. We
just individuals with people with people. All of us are
at the mercy of a system. We're a nation of rules,
nation of laws. We're supposed to be. And if that's
(06:04):
what's going on in our world, well, who's hovering over it?
Who's the puppeteer pulling the strings? Do we not see
the Democrats right now lamenting everything about Donald Trump's power?
Do we not see the influence that power can wield?
Do we not see a guy in Elon Musk who's unelected,
(06:28):
his position is overdoged, does not require Senate confirmation or
anything like that. Do we not see the power that
he's willing when he's essentially an adviser and a consultant
to the president, but clearly somebody who gets the president
to do a lot of what he says. Power matters,
influence matters, and when it's almost always in the hands
(06:52):
are people that look like Tucker Carlson, where does that
leave the.
Speaker 2 (06:56):
Rest of us?
Speaker 1 (06:56):
If a Tucker Carlson is on the airwaves spewing that
that's the kind of meritocracy we should want.
Speaker 3 (07:04):
Is it just me?
Speaker 1 (07:06):
Is it just me? And then you want test scores,
standardized test scores. I get that part. If everybody is
experiencing the same conditions, same qualities as schools and education,
same quality of teachers, same qualities of life, having a
(07:27):
walk through the streets of America to get to school.
Does everybody have to take mass transit? Does everybody have
to take the train? Does every you have to does
everyone have to walk through impoverished neighborhoods, rough streets, crime?
Does everybody have the same limited amount of distractions?
Speaker 2 (07:49):
Yes?
Speaker 3 (07:49):
And no.
Speaker 1 (07:52):
The answer to that would be no, which means the
conditions are not the same, which means to just use
something generic that's supposed to be applicable to everyone when
everyone's situations, the circumstances, and what is available to them
and what they're exposed to is not the same. In
(08:16):
Tucker Costs World, none of that should be taken into
consideration based on what I heard, What does that leave us?
That's where I'm coming from. That's my problem with what
he said. That's what made me incredibly, incredibly uncomfortable, because
(08:39):
when you see people lamenting politicians who are in office
and looking at them, their personality, their experiences, the influence that.
Speaker 2 (08:49):
They wield, and where their soul lies.
Speaker 1 (08:54):
When you found yourself listening to Tucker casts and as
I listened to him last night, I just got the impression, Wow,
this is not a dude that sees much outside of
his bubble that he either is willing to relate to
(09:17):
or have compassion for. I might be wrong with that.
I don't know. I'm only going by what I saw.
It looks very uncomfortable because his voice resonates, and it
resonates with people who have influence, And if they're listening
to him, what kind of influence are they willing to exercise?
(09:41):
And what role is he playing in it. He's no
longer at Fox News, no longer as he in Namas NBC.
He's got his own social media following. He's free as
a bird to operate with relative impunity to say whatever
it is he wants to say.
Speaker 2 (10:03):
That's pretty damn scary if you don't fall under the
umbrella of merit or of meritocracy that he feels you should.
Just my thoughts based off of what I saw
Host
Stephen A. Smith
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