April 22, 2025 • 46 mins
Like Episode 3 guest Liz Carmouche, former NHL enforcer Riley Cote knows something about pain. And also about the problematic cycles of machismo and stigma that can prevent people from seeking out certain paths to treatment and remedy. Riley overcame those obstacles in his own life, finding success in pain management and mental stability with cannabis and other alternative treatments. He now advocates for others like him to have access to these medicines, and avoid the paths to alcohol / opioid addiction, depression, and even suicide he has witnessed far too many times among his peers.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
It's always about intention, right. If I'm just trying to
(00:01):
get stone, well you'll just get stoned. But if I'm
trying to heal, or if I'm trying to create or
use this in a different way, intention is everything.
Speaker 2 (00:09):
Lava for Good and Stand Together Music present The War
on Drugs Podcast Season two. This season, we're diving deeper
into the real stories behind the.
Speaker 3 (00:17):
War on Drugs.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
It's impact, it's failures, and the people offering a better
path forward. Today on the show, fame Philadelphia Flyers and
forcer from two thousand and six to twenty ten, with
over two hundred NHL fights to his name, host of
the Nasty Knuckles podcast, and plant based health advocate mister
Riley Koto. All Right, welcome to another episode of the
(00:41):
War on Drugs. Yes, yes, maam, I'm Greg Blott, I'm
Clay and we're we're going to the hockey rink.
Speaker 4 (00:49):
Were going to the hockey rink.
Speaker 2 (00:50):
Yeah, I can't skate.
Speaker 5 (00:52):
I mean no, I mean I've done it, but I
wouldn't say I can do it.
Speaker 3 (00:57):
No, I don't think I need to do it anymore.
Speaker 2 (00:59):
I'm thirty evan now and I don't need to like
my limbs to start moving in ways that they're not comfortable.
Speaker 5 (01:06):
I'm used to skating with wheels, yeah, not with blades.
So yeah, that just that just feels dangerous and it
feels like is a lot more cutting could happen. Not
only could you fall, you could slice something. Yeah, I'm
not a fan of it. That's why I respect the
hockey players.
Speaker 2 (01:24):
I didn't tell you that they play eighty some odd
games and then you know, we're going to talk to
Riley Kota today. Name may sound familiar for a lot
of the NHL fans during like the mid two thousands.
He was the he was the guy not only was
on ice skates, he was the dude that when the
fight need to happen.
Speaker 4 (01:41):
He was on the punch.
Speaker 5 (01:43):
He was jersey.
Speaker 4 (01:44):
He was the game. He was the bruising and whacking
you a couple of times.
Speaker 5 (01:48):
That was That is my favorite hockey move. The jersey
over the good Yeah is a very dirty tech.
Speaker 2 (01:54):
We all learned that in a D two Mighty Ducks.
Speaker 4 (01:57):
Yeah, yeah, that is a great move.
Speaker 2 (01:59):
I think they even had Kenny grabbed the jersey start socking.
Speaker 4 (02:02):
Yeah that was great. Yeah, we watched that today.
Speaker 3 (02:05):
Shout out.
Speaker 2 (02:06):
But yeah, you know and when you're a like we
just see the fights everything like that, like we're good,
but like you don't think about all the other stuff
that goes along with that. So we talk about his
career when he started being like this enforcer character and
how that impacted him, like during his career and now after.
And for those who don't like watch hockey or don't
know hockey and these kind of think everyone's fighting all
the time, is like, oh no, there is people. This
(02:29):
was his job, like he was a defender and fighting.
Speaker 5 (02:33):
In hockey that that person is to go out there
and their job is to bust some heads.
Speaker 3 (02:38):
Yeah, like I look at it.
Speaker 2 (02:39):
It set the tone. It's thing if they do something wrong.
This is how you're getting a picture hitting a batter.
Speaker 3 (02:45):
It's that type of thing.
Speaker 5 (02:46):
And in hockey is not just hard fouls, it's actual
fist fights.
Speaker 2 (02:52):
Oh, they have stats and everything. There's stats, there's who
you find like, there's you can look at all like yeah, it's.
Speaker 4 (02:57):
Crazy, are you fight? And then you take a break.
Speaker 2 (02:59):
And it's he was talking about hundreds of fights, I mean,
particularly back then and you're in Philly, Yeah, and I
knows about Philly ud.
Speaker 6 (03:10):
Outside Yeah, so you know we talk about all that,
like what that actually does to you and how you know,
really you know it gets into a physical pain, mental pain,
all these things and how you know, in particular CBD, cannabis,
these things that really helped him and kind of like
where he's at right now, and just a really amazing
(03:31):
conversation for someone that.
Speaker 2 (03:32):
Like man just really worked the ringer an awesome dude,
awesome time. He invited us into his house. Really cool
place h outside of like Philadelphia. I dated a girl
that lived around that area and so he lived around there.
So with that, let's uh, let's talk to Riley cot
Let's get.
Speaker 7 (03:52):
It me and rig our guests and sponsors may sound smart,
we may even make some good points, but at the
end of the day, we're not medical professional. Okay, Please
don't get your medical advice from a podcast. Anything we
say on here does not constitute official medical advice. Relax,
(04:12):
consult your doctor before you start any new treatment plans.
Speaker 4 (04:17):
Got it all right?
Speaker 2 (04:19):
We are here with Riley Kote. We are in the
lovely Pennsylvania countryside over here. Riley, thanks for coming on
the War on Drugs. Yeah, thanks for having me, yeah,
and thanks for letting us into your house here you
live outside of Philadelphia. After your amazing care at the
Philadelphia Flyers managing their minor league team, coming back, you're
still doing podcasts with Flyers, still connected the team. And
(04:41):
I know I went to Penn State from two thousand
and six twenty ten, right when you were playing in Philly.
When I told like my Philly scumbag and I said
that was all dear respect and endearment, my scumbag friends
were just like, oh.
Speaker 3 (04:51):
Fuck yeah, coach, Yeah, we love coach. Yeah, just coach bash.
Speaker 4 (04:55):
Yeah, right, exact spot.
Speaker 2 (04:56):
How many fights did you get at it during your
NHL career NHL over.
Speaker 4 (05:00):
Two hundred hockey fights.
Speaker 1 (05:02):
Yeah, yeah, I mean it was like averaging thirty thirty
five a year and excluding preseason where you're going into
the jungle and fighting all these young guys coming up
and trying to make a.
Speaker 4 (05:12):
Name for themselves. So yeah, it was it was it was.
Speaker 3 (05:14):
Fighting like you from like, yeah, exactly.
Speaker 1 (05:15):
Fighting myself exactly. Yeah, it's pretty crazy. Yeah, but yes,
it's interesting to look back on it because it's I
almost forget, like what kind of life I lived, you know,
how you know how hard it was like is but
early on, it was like, you know, I just loved
it early, even though there was parts of it I
didn't love, Like there's again the emotional roller coaster of
(05:36):
jacking yourself up and then trying to sleep after.
Speaker 4 (05:39):
I didn't love that. But once you're in the fight,
there's something like extremely powerful about the amount of adrenaline
and energy.
Speaker 1 (05:46):
It's like you and another guy in front of well,
eventually playing the NHL like twenty twenty two thousand people
watching the game, right but in the Central Hockey League,
smaller crowds, but nonetheless like.
Speaker 4 (05:55):
You're you're you're you're in a you know, hand to hand.
Speaker 1 (05:59):
Combat, you know, hockey fight, and someone's gonna win, someone's
gonna lose, and it's just like it's just so it's
a intimate.
Speaker 2 (06:07):
So early on, I mean a lot of times grabbing
jerseys like it's right in the face, turning around and
I mean it's yeah, it's.
Speaker 1 (06:15):
Yeah, it's real, right, yeah, yeah, I mean it's it's
as real it's going to get. And you got, you know,
two big dudes, you know that that are willing to
punch each other in the face and stand there and
take it. So early on, it was like just taking
on this challenge of like, well, a new role, like
a new skill I had to learn, right, not even
just the fighting part, but like how to play the role.
Speaker 2 (06:34):
It was there like a coach on the team, like
did you get fighting, Like like yeah, it's it's kind
of like one of you to.
Speaker 4 (06:41):
Figure it out on your own, honestly.
Speaker 1 (06:43):
So you know, I've been around the fighting since I
was in junior hockey, so I've observed some of the
tough guys that we had on the team and how
they carried themselves and how they flexed and how you know, how.
Speaker 4 (06:53):
They did their job.
Speaker 1 (06:54):
So it was just really kind of taking pages out
of other people's books observing, and I started udying the
tough guys right, start studying how they.
Speaker 4 (07:02):
Carry themselves when they fought, how they did it, you know. Different.
Speaker 1 (07:06):
I was lefty, so you know, there wasn't many lefties.
The biggest, biggest, baddest dudes landed up being lefties. That
it was a different strategy now and fighting these guys.
But it was just like it was just like owning
the role and owning the role, and to a point
where it almost say, it consumed me maybe to a fault,
you know, because it becomes you, you know, like this
is just my gig, that's it.
Speaker 4 (07:27):
And then you say that you I say, like playing
a role. You are playing a role.
Speaker 1 (07:31):
It's like you know a character that you have to play.
But you also, as I mentioned earlier, you have to
back it up. You can't just act tough and then
when the other when the other guy's tough guy starts flexing,
then then you cowards like I don't want to fight anymore,
you know.
Speaker 4 (07:43):
What I mean. If you're gonna if you're gonna puff.
Speaker 1 (07:45):
Your chest out and bark at the other guy, you
better be ready. So there has to be the element
of actually owning it too, right and backing it up.
So I was actually taking different fight lessons.
Speaker 4 (07:56):
I was. I hired a fight code. Whatever it takes,
there's anything it takes. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (08:00):
So I did some boxing, did some dirty boxing, got
into some karate, you got into some taekwondo, and then
eventually got into like this really this jiu jitsu type
you just stand up greco Roman wrestling type of thing.
Speaker 2 (08:11):
Yeah, And so you know, you can't can't win every fight,
and so even when you are you know, knuckles getting
busted up, you're already playing hockey, which is incredibly physical sport.
Long seasons. You're getting hit in the face, you're getting
dragged down bloody. What was that treatment process looking like
at that point in your career. What were they doing
for you? And how much pain were you actually kind
of playing through? And yeah, what did that whole culture
(08:32):
look like for you?
Speaker 1 (08:33):
Yeah, I mean I don't think I ever fully healed. Yeah,
I mean you talk about being always banged up. You're
always dealing with, like, you know, the aches and the pain,
especially the hands from fighting. They said that you mentioned
the gripping. You know, you're grabbing on and you get
the fingers. You know, I got the crooked finger from
dislocating my finger. All these weird little things you don't
think of, Like the back of the neck is always
sort of you know, the face inflammation and obviously dealing
(08:56):
with the inflammation of the brain, which sure you're kind
of just ignored, you.
Speaker 4 (08:59):
Know, just like Sha.
Speaker 1 (09:03):
But you know, when I moved away from home when
I was sixteen years old, you know, you you move
away and you're you're introduced to this culture of hockey
and there's a lot of alcohol, there's a lot of partying, right,
And so I was introduced to that world and you know,
not really knowing it at the time, you know, the
world of self medicating, right, So like when I started
fighting for a living, there's obviously added stress to the job.
Speaker 4 (09:26):
It's like a different dimension of stress. You know. The
party keeps increasing.
Speaker 1 (09:29):
As you get older, you get you know, a new league,
a little more money, you know what I mean, the part,
but the party is there though always there was always
the party. And what comes with the party is you know,
more drugs and you know, more more means to to
disassociate or you know, to to numb and to self medicate.
Speaker 4 (09:46):
So booze was a huge you know, it's a huge.
Speaker 1 (09:49):
Part of my life for a lot of times in
a really destructive way. And then not understanding the energy,
not understanding the substance itself, misusing it obviously like most people, right,
and you know, going down some dark you know holes
with that. But I will say I also had a
relationship with cannabis since I was fifteen years old, but
(10:09):
I think helped balance out some of the booze issues
to the point where it didn't go as dark as
it could have. Like I've seen some guys go because
they didn't have a relationship with cannabis. I will say
my relationship with cannabis wasn't great either, I think without
understanding the science, like when I turned pro at twenty
years old, you know, because there wasn't a whole lot
(10:31):
of different type of products available. Still, you know, flower
would be pretty much anything you're going to find. I
would move from Canada to Memphis, Tennessee, like slim pickens
on what you're going to find. But I think it
was there that I really started. Now looking back, you know,
on my life and career, did I identify the therapeutics
in that cannabis offered me? Because I could remember like
(10:52):
like I'm fighting this big ass dude tomorrow. And then
you know, I could like actually chill, I could actually
fall asleep when I'm hearing horror stories. Some of the
other guys that you know that are doing the job,
like they like literally don't sleep right, like literally like
sweats and like not sleeping. So I could tell that
it helped with anxiety and sleep for sure, and then
(11:12):
definitely pain. I couldn't communicate it at the time, like
I didn't have the language because I was you know,
it was still like that was, you know, back in
two thousand and one, like there was, there was certainly
not podcast And I'm a naive, you know, Canadian hockey
player down in you know, Memphis, Tennessee and Mississippi, playing
on that side of it, like.
Speaker 4 (11:31):
Not understanding it, but feeling it. You know.
Speaker 1 (11:33):
It's like, you know, it's like, oh, the devil's let us.
It's like, well, surely sort of don't feel like the
devil's let us. I felt better and it's actually helped
me manage some of these things. So I always had
a relationship with cannabis, like my whole junior hockey career
and pro hockey careers. Really when I started to make
sense of like what it was doing, but I was
also still you know, engaging with a lot of gnarly
behaviors like drinking night quill on the bus after games.
(11:56):
We're trying to you know what I mean, because we
weren't travel with the cannabis the time, so you'd we
start to use other things to do the same thing
the cannabis was doing. Right, Oh, I need to relax, Yeah,
oh you got to sleep. You have some night quill,
you know what I mean. But they but they do
something completely different, right, I mean there's the night quill
hangover and these weird muscle relaxers, and then you get
(12:18):
into like the percosets, right, they start a Percoset fives.
Speaker 4 (12:21):
And then you know what I mean.
Speaker 1 (12:23):
So you'd be on the on the bus at the
time and it would just be like, yeah, after the game,
it's like everyone's trying to get in relaxed sleep mode.
Speaker 4 (12:30):
Booze pills, right, and night quill and whatever else.
Speaker 1 (12:32):
As you can imagine, it's it's just as a really
destructive cocktail. And so you see so many guys deal
with substance abuse issues and it's.
Speaker 4 (12:41):
Staring you right in the eye.
Speaker 1 (12:42):
It is right in the face, right, It's like it's
it's it's a major problem.
Speaker 4 (12:46):
But it's just the way it is. I think the
culture of it exactly, it's the culture.
Speaker 3 (12:49):
It feels normal.
Speaker 4 (12:51):
Normal.
Speaker 3 (12:51):
Of course, I'll take some night. I just saw my
other like we're passing around like it. I'll just yeah, yeah.
Speaker 4 (12:55):
Now the world is so focused on recovery and rest.
Speaker 1 (12:58):
Back in the day, like we wouldn't take days off,
like our days off would be getting absolutely crushed drunk
and then still showing up you's got to get a
workout and executive workout, steaming out and lift and all
these crazy things. And now it's like mandatory days off
by the NHL. Like the focus of recovery. It's a
big part of the work, right because you can only
work so much and then the body breaks down. And
(13:19):
you know, for in the business of preventing injuries and
keeping your players on the ice or on the field,
if you have a five million, six million dollars on
the guy on the shelf, it doesn't help the success
of the team.
Speaker 4 (13:30):
So now.
Speaker 1 (13:32):
You see guys using cannabis in these extremely mindful ways
and you know, just completely different than what we did
back in the day. So like a laugh, I'm like
geez man, Like you know here, I am like thinking
to myself, I'm like an idiot for you know, for
if you have trial and error for so many years
of trying to figure this out, but there was no manual.
Right now we're living an age of information. You guys
got these podcasts and there's awareness, but there's like science
(13:55):
to support it. There's all these different delivery systems as
I mentioned, but like very predictable outcomes based on the
varieties that we choose and what we're trying to accomplish.
Speaker 2 (14:05):
Right, right, That ignorance and that lack of like a
culture around it. Like with alcohol. I remember we were
in school. It's like five ounces of wine. It adds
up to a light beard ads it.
Speaker 3 (14:13):
You knew, you knew the quantity.
Speaker 2 (14:14):
Yeah, right, you may have had some trial and air
and some bad moments with some stuff and there was
like some stuff anymore.
Speaker 3 (14:19):
Yeah, you knew, and we just don't have that culture
around campus still even though this.
Speaker 4 (14:23):
Is to this day.
Speaker 1 (14:24):
Yeah, the argument of like, well, there's no you know,
cannabis product products for me because I associate cannabis with
being this stone I don't want to be stoned?
Speaker 4 (14:32):
Is that to me? That's a myth.
Speaker 1 (14:34):
Like there's certainly products that can help service anybody, whether
you want to get higher or not, just just to
kind of pick your variety and understand what you're putting
in your body and you know, you can make some.
Speaker 4 (14:45):
Sense of it.
Speaker 1 (14:46):
But it's it's it's hard to believe it's only been
what like twenty years a little bit longer, you know
that it's evolved that much.
Speaker 2 (15:01):
So Riley, you talk about kind of you were using cannabis,
you know, since you were fifteen on you know, on
So when do you feel that turn kind of happened
where you were just kind of taking it recreationally to oh,
I'm I'm curious about this or I want to do more.
Speaker 3 (15:17):
Was there like an ahaman? Was it speaking to someone?
Was it all post career? Was it during your career?
Speaker 2 (15:21):
Did that kind of lead to kind of like moving
on from the NHL after that?
Speaker 3 (15:25):
Yeah, I just love to hear your thoughts about where
that transition came.
Speaker 1 (15:27):
Yeah, the aha moment came my last year of playing
in twenty ten, the aha moment of like making sense
of my experience and connecting it to something that I
read supported by science, actually a book called Hemp for Health,
and it broke down the entire cannabis plant. You know,
the dig digestible protein source, like the food is a
viable protein source, hemp seeds, the hemp protein, you know,
(15:50):
the fibers always support cannabis, all my clothes, all I have,
you know, and I just like just understanding the viability
of the plant, the industrial applications of the plant, and
then getting into the true medicinal side of the cannabis
plant and making sense of some of these compounds. Right,
THHD was like the only compound I had heard of
at that time, and then you know, understanding CBD and
(16:12):
some of these other minor cannabinoids and their effect on
the body and the brain. And I think it was
just in that moment that I had this aha moment
of around holy shit, Like I felt like I was
duped almost right, yeah, but I also felt like energized
to be like wow, like, you know, I've been believing
in this thing for so long because I obviously it's
been by my side. I've been using it, not understanding it.
(16:34):
But now it makes way more sense to me. This
is like, there's a reason why this is illegal, has
nothing to do with you know, the propaganda machine. This
is an incredible resource, and you start you know studying it,
and you know, you get started connecting all the dots
to you know, synthetic fibers versus natural fibers and everything.
You know, I mean, it makes sense to the natural
world versus the chemical world or the synthetic world. So
(16:55):
I really just started getting excited about it and started
you know, speaking for the trees, if you will. Right
right out of the gate, when I retired, did I
start advocating for cannabis.
Speaker 4 (17:06):
But but what happened when I had that.
Speaker 1 (17:08):
Aha moment my last two surgeries in twenty ten, I
just used cannabis post surgery, proving to myself, because at
that point, I was dealing with some major substance abuse,
like parting way too much and still using you know,
pain pills way too way too often, sleeping pills. So
I chose to just attempt to use cannabis as like,
(17:29):
you know, I said, some bit of a social experiment
on myself, and I proved to myself for those two
surgeries nose surgery and this surgery on my finger that
I talked about earlier, just used cannabis throughout the pills
and haven't used a pharmaceutical drug since then. It's been
nothing but earth based medicine since then. And that just
led me down the rabbit hole of psilocybin, which I
(17:49):
had a similar kind of relationship with that cannabis, misunderstood, misused.
But then the cannabis and the psilocybin, you know, kind
of using them, you know together, pairing them, as you
could say, to treat some of their collateral damage from
fighting right now. So I always start to understand CBD
on the level of neuro the neuroprotecting value and you know,
the promoting neurogenesis, which as I mentioned, led me down
(18:13):
the researching of psilocybin, which seemed to mimic some version
of what CBD was doing. Oh, the neurogenesis, the neuroprotection property.
So I was like, shit, I'm like, if this is
helping me on this level with with the pain management anxiety,
and I actually stopped drinking for a year. The cannabis
was this amazing tool to transition out of the grind
and you know, give me something.
Speaker 4 (18:32):
To lean on and heal. And then it was the psilocybin.
Speaker 1 (18:35):
Similarly, it was like I gotta I gotta manage the
damage that I've caused.
Speaker 4 (18:39):
So I landed up using.
Speaker 1 (18:41):
Psilocybin differently, but much like I'd been using cannabis to heal.
And it really really was that was around the brain
more than than the physical And that's so what's neurogenesis
for those that don't know at hell?
Speaker 3 (18:53):
And like, what are you actually talking with that?
Speaker 1 (18:55):
Yeah, I think the simplest way to describe it, I
guess at some level of neuroplasticity, it's just it's it's
the brain cells reconnecting, maybe create, connecting new neuropathways, potentially
old ones. But it's just it's the brain reconnecting in
some way, shape or form, at least on some level.
Speaker 4 (19:12):
Right. It could take time to full full level.
Speaker 1 (19:16):
Of neurogenesis, but there's like connection happening, and there's like
some life happening in the brain, right, much like the
my ceial network underneath the soil.
Speaker 4 (19:23):
Right, there's like a level of like there's a world.
There's a world. Yeah, it's like things are happening, things
are connecting something. That's the simplest way I could describe it.
Speaker 1 (19:30):
It's just like the you know, the ability for maybe
new brain cell growth, but you condict connection of neurons
and brain cells.
Speaker 3 (19:38):
Yeah, I know.
Speaker 2 (19:39):
We talked to like Liz Carmus and she's a part
of the Cleveland Medical Study brain study that a lot
of the NFL players are participating that too, And she
has said since using CBD she had like her brain
the levels that they're measuring for you know what cd
CT could be damaged neurons, brain cells actually increased in
protection and it's helped her brain like, oh, recover physic
(20:00):
and it's just an amazing thing to hear. And I
think that's just so critical for people like that. Who
are you know, she's getting punched in the faces? I'm
too and like, yeah, that's an interesting thing. Have you
been able to like measure anything from like an FC
standpoint talking to doctors about what you know your brain
was looking like from an MRI casting, I'd be curious,
like what that looks like from that we're just like
physically feeling.
Speaker 4 (20:18):
Yeah, yeah, it's physically feeling. Honestly.
Speaker 1 (20:21):
Part of my strategy when I first retired was not
to get a diagnosis, because what I had seen was
that once you get labeled with a diagnosis, now you
get all these opinions. Yeah, you get all these different treatments,
and you get all these different people that wanted to
heal you and help you. Right, And I know it
sounds great and all, except for it's confusing, right, and
it's uh, and it was not the path that I
(20:42):
wanted to go. I was like kind of done with
that that that world, and so I was just the
way I'm wired is just like Okay, Riley, You're going
to do this yourself, right, you got yourself in this
whole You're gonna figure this one out.
Speaker 4 (20:53):
And then it was really just a it was a
combination of.
Speaker 1 (20:57):
Self study, right, myself and and the plants themselves, but
knowing that that I was just going to trust the
way I was feeling right, So I had no benchmark,
kind of like you could go back on the look
because I know some people that have and it'd be
nice to look. But like, I think that I would
have gotten dragged through the mud had I gone that route,
and I don't think I would be where I am today.
(21:19):
I don't think it would have accelerated the way it
accelerated the way it did. So no real benchmark, you know,
on a physical level, but it was just based on
the way the way I felt right. I mean, it
was just the emotions, the I guess, the darkness, the fog,
the sense of like purpose, right, because it's way beyond just.
Speaker 4 (21:36):
The brain, right.
Speaker 1 (21:37):
I mean, we have to be honest with like the physical,
the mental, the emotional, spiritual, right, It's like it's and
I think that's why these these earth based medicines are
so powerful, is because they address the whole being right,
and it's not.
Speaker 2 (21:50):
The foundation, it's the root causes. It's not the lipstick
on it. You know, you're not putting a band aid
over it.
Speaker 1 (21:55):
That's it, right, And you get to the nitty gritty, right,
they're all anti inflammatory. So it's getting to the or
of maybe where some of the pains coming from, or
the you know, the you know, the issues are coming
from soda dresses the inflammation. And there's obviously a more
of an esoteric mystical side.
Speaker 4 (22:09):
There is a level of you.
Speaker 1 (22:12):
Know, emotional release, spiritual release, and we talk about trauma,
you know, dealing with the physical trauma that was association
with right, So it's kind of attacking the whole being right.
We always look at it as a physical thing, but
it's way beyond that. And I think both of them,
you know both I say, psilocybin and cannabis in their
own lanes, have been extremely instrumental.
Speaker 4 (22:34):
For me to just you know, say get back on
my feet.
Speaker 1 (22:37):
Some people would argue all their crutches, and they say, well,
crutches help people walk, and you know it's like they
serve their purpose if respected and used properly, extremely powerful.
And so since then, you know, it's been me just say,
like banging the drama, like speaking to my experience as
much as I possibly can. Now, I have coaches and
(22:57):
players and you know, strength to conditioning guys in professional
sports organizations asking me for advice.
Speaker 4 (23:04):
Almost every player is using some version of a cannabis.
Speaker 1 (23:06):
Product, including the coaching staff, and the coaching staff would
rather have their players using cannabis than drinking alcohol exactly.
That's how what she's evolved. Hockey Traditionally most sports heavy
on the booze. So it's like it's amazing to see
the shift the levels of consciousness. And rightfully so, people
are just like now, maybe for some time now, I've
(23:28):
been waking up to the idea that we may have
been duped and these are actually legitimate tools to help
us through a daily grind and sports recovery.
Speaker 2 (23:37):
I'm curious, like, do you feel you've had more resistance
from folks that are athletes who are very you know,
controlling about a lot of what they put in their body,
or like Layman's people when you've talked about this and
more steps, I would almost think like athletes just because
they are very skeptical of anything that they're about to
put in, maybe they would believers immediately after because they
know what feels right. I'm just curious, like you feel
(23:58):
that that's been part of a trans for for folks
or the other way.
Speaker 4 (24:01):
It's the older generational alumni.
Speaker 1 (24:04):
Yeah, they were like they were born in the thick
of you know, the war on drugs. They're born in
the thick of the propaganda machine and and heavy drinkers,
and so a lot of these guys driving those emotions down,
driving the emotions down, and and you know, and and
buying into the belief system that all drugs are the same, right,
traditional substance abuse program AA programs. A lot of a
(24:25):
lot of guys gone through the AA programs, which is
like all substances bad. We're going to have to be
a Buddhist monk to get through this type of deal.
Speaker 4 (24:32):
Right.
Speaker 3 (24:33):
Funny thing about the guy that started A Yeah, he
thought he saw God. Yeah, that's why he started h A.
Speaker 1 (24:39):
I know, right, it's crazy, the irony of it, right,
So we have Actually part of my work is to
try and introduce cannabis and psilocybin too the recovery settings
and actually reform the addiction model because from my own experience,
and I know several others that I've used cannabis and
psilocybin to get off drugs.
Speaker 4 (24:55):
They use it as an exit drug, right. I mean,
it's like you're giving.
Speaker 1 (24:58):
You something to I don't say, wean off or it
help you deal with the the the withdrawal, and it
help you make sense of the core issues you're dealing
with the trauma itself. So that's a whole other world,
you know that. That's that I'm kind of trying to
penetrate with this, But it's generally the older generation guys
that have had subscribed to traditional substance abuse programs because
they're anti everything.
Speaker 4 (25:19):
But we've made a ton of leeway there. You know.
Speaker 1 (25:22):
I'm working with the Flyers right now, the Flyers alumni,
to build out a you know, precision dose, customized cannabis
program for the alumni for a lot of these guys
that have just been anti cannabis for good reason because
they're you know, on the programs, they don't know any better,
but they're suffering so much now and they're seeing all
the headlines and you know, they're knowing people that are
using CBD no THC products and using high CB varieties
(25:45):
for inflammation or sleep. But they're still thinking in their
minds that CBS a violation of the sobriety, which is
crazy to think about. So that's their own issues like
that they have to you know, they'll they help to
figure out themselves. But that But that's the conversations that
we're having, and that's where it's going.
Speaker 4 (26:00):
And I'd like to think here, if it's.
Speaker 1 (26:01):
Not already happening officially through strength and conditioning, you know,
the sports science department actually integrating cannabinoids into their therapy,
not just like having the players use it on their own,
but actually making a part of their strength and conditioning
recovery program. So that's where it's going. If it's not
already fully there yet. It's it's amazing how quickly this
thing's morph But that the older generation, young guys are
(26:22):
easy because they're always looking for an edge. They want
to feel better, they want to optimize, they want to
they want to play longer, you know, they want to
make the money as long as they can, so they'll
do anything. Then then you get in the world of
microdosing psilocybe, and it's like a whole other world of
sports performance.
Speaker 4 (26:38):
Like talk about the mind and like focus.
Speaker 2 (26:40):
And PC do it and others I think that is
such like a foreign const like someone taking a drug
and doing work. I think, like people, that'll be a
burrage for a lot of people for a very long.
Speaker 1 (26:50):
Time, it is, But that one seems to be like
warp speed too, because people are realizing that we've again
been duped.
Speaker 4 (26:56):
It's like, oh, there's riddling. There's all these drugs.
Speaker 1 (26:58):
That are trying to do this, like the coffee and
all the stimulants that people are just chasing the dream with.
But then you got something that's super gentle, you know,
very predictable, focused, concentrated energy that does actually improve performance
and you know individual performance, team performance, right, So it's yeah,
it's wild to think about. And then you talked to
(27:18):
some of these UFC fighters and they're talking about micro doses.
They're talking about like mini doses and like one gram
one and a half grams before combat. Yeah, where you're
seeing so many high level performers, we're talking about psilocybin,
you know, microsing Now, but.
Speaker 2 (27:31):
How prevalent do you think that is in like the
NHL or major sports. How many players do you think
do that on a semi regular basis?
Speaker 4 (27:37):
Now, It's it's hard to say, but it's quite a bit.
Speaker 1 (27:40):
Oh yeah, and it's more than you may think, and
it's people that you might not think. Yeah, it's like
and it's catching on. Just like the cannabis thing. It's
like when I was coaching in the American Hockey League,
towards the last second the second last year of my coaching,
guys were infusing peanut butter, infusing coconut oil with cannabis
and sitting in the back of the bus and just
like so they could sleep, so they got unwined and
(28:01):
like you didn't see the beers on the bus. So
it's like, like you want to wake up in the
morning feeling better, and you want to perform better. And
there's times to go, you know, the times guys still
go and rip it up, there's no question. But the
age of like archaic drinking like it was in the past,
that's there is a thing of the past. And guys
are so focused on taking care of their moneymakers, their
temples right, and and they're gonna do whatever they have to.
(28:24):
And you're seeing this in all levels of performance, not
just hockey, not just sports.
Speaker 4 (28:28):
As you mentioned, high levels.
Speaker 1 (28:30):
Executives, the Silicon Valley coders, anybody I work with some
some dentists, dental surgeons like so focused, so calm that
you know that you can be in that moment and
feel like you can.
Speaker 4 (28:41):
Do the best work. Right.
Speaker 1 (28:42):
Yeah, so that's what you're seeing. So and guys talk right,
they're not gonna wait for the FDA. They're not waiting
for the gatekeepers, you know, the regulators that come in
like you know, to me, this is like green light,
like they've paved the way with cannabis. This is a
green light to you know, to optimize in a healthy way.
The craziest thing about it is just the laws of
around it. That's the most destructive piece.
Speaker 4 (29:02):
Right.
Speaker 3 (29:09):
You don't have the name names or do anything, but
are there people?
Speaker 2 (29:12):
Are there people that you saw within your career or
anything that you were like, man, I wish I saw
wish I caught him like who I am now? I
wish I could just sit him down and been like
I know what's happening with your head?
Speaker 3 (29:22):
I know it's happening aboudy, Like here's a better Yeah.
Speaker 4 (29:25):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (29:25):
There was so many of those guys during my playing
career and posts and I still and I still run
into the Yeah. I mean it's like there's there's guys
taking their own lives.
Speaker 4 (29:36):
Like you see, seems like.
Speaker 1 (29:37):
Almost every other week, you know, hear these dark stories,
just guys within you know, the Flyers alumni network, and
you see them and it's just like every time you
see the way they moved, the way they're carrying themselves,
you could tell, you know, they could be optimized or
they could optimize their lives a little bit better, right,
And I know what I know, But like you know,
I also know that they only know what they know, right,
(29:59):
And like a lot of the stuff that I educate
people on advocate for is still a taboo, right, there's
still a stigma around, especially the older generational guys. But yeah,
I mean I look back and even though I was playing,
it's like I wish guys would have drank less and
smoked more, you know what I mean. And like you know,
there's a lot of guys that never got into the
cannabis while they were playing.
Speaker 4 (30:17):
And some guys are so proud they will never get into.
Speaker 1 (30:19):
The cannabis, you know what I mean, Because I'm I'm
an alcohol guy, you know what I mean. You got
to stay by the you know, bye bye old faithful there.
Speaker 4 (30:26):
But every day. I feel like there's people I run into.
Speaker 1 (30:31):
I think it's it's some bit complex because there's, you know,
the physical pain guys deal with, you know, the inflammation,
the actual physical pain, and then there's an emotional pain,
right depending on how the guy left the game.
Speaker 4 (30:43):
We're talking about more mainly like retired guys.
Speaker 1 (30:46):
I think it is the toughest part because now you've
left your team, your teammates, that locker room right, right,
it's like a it's a family, right, And it was
very organized.
Speaker 4 (30:57):
It was very structured.
Speaker 1 (30:59):
You know, you give your schedule handed out to you
the start of the year. You knew what you're doing
every day, every week, every month for the whole season,
what to wear, game days, practice days, and then all
of a sudden, you're on the other side of the fence,
like looking at your career, not knowing who you are.
There's an identity crisis that follows. Right, It's like holy shit,
like now what you know? Because I thought I was
a hockey player, That's how I thought I was, but
(31:21):
that was the job you did. So I think what
happens is like they're dealing with physical pain, they generally
generally mismanage that pain with alcohol and other drugs and
you know, legal drugs, paint and pain killers, the whole bit.
Then there's the emotional pain of like, you know, like
however their career played out, because it's usually ends up
(31:42):
finishing with an injury or you know, you leave the
game not in your terms right, and so it's hard
for guys. And then it's like figuring out who am
I and where do I go from here? So there's
all these questions like finding your purpose, redefining yourself.
Speaker 4 (31:55):
Who am I? Now? I got pain? I got to
manage it.
Speaker 1 (31:59):
So it's like the snowball effect of like, Okay, we're
just going to keep doing what we did forever because
it was fine then because I had a purpose and
I you know, I had a schedule and everything was
good and it was in the NHL making a lot
of money. Now I'm not I'm gonna still do it
the same way. And it gets dark, and it gets
dark and the snowballs. And if you don't snap yourself
out of it or find you know, more more sustainable
means to deal with your stress and pain and suffering,
(32:23):
you're just going to keep digging yourself into a.
Speaker 4 (32:25):
Whole, darker hole, a darker hole and darker hole.
Speaker 1 (32:27):
And that's really where it goes, is that guys become
suicidal because they don't know who they are. They've numbed
their pain for for however long, and they've never addressed it,
never got to the root cause of it.
Speaker 2 (32:39):
And they're guys, and like, I mean, I know, like
my dad was a compet, a secret service Asian. His
dad was an army you know, he was on a battleship,
and like, you know, they don't know how to communicate
like that either, And I'm you know, it's that sort
of thing, so like you don't have that network around
you be like I'm not okay, Like you're just like
I got to suck this up or something or not.
Speaker 4 (32:56):
Yeah, that's it.
Speaker 3 (32:56):
That's like you have no moral yeah, no role models.
Speaker 4 (32:59):
And that's the way I was trained.
Speaker 1 (33:01):
I was that really conservative, tough it out guy, right,
But I realized that being vulnerable was a superpower and
not that I woke up one morning, but I'm gonna
be vulnerable. But like when I started speaking on behalf
of cannabis plants and the mushrooms, like you're speaking for
something much greater than yourself, right, you're speaking for you know,
all intelligence, you know, all mother nature. Right, we're speaking
(33:23):
to something that's gonna help not just myself, but I
like to think all mankind if you can, you know,
look at it that way, right, It's going to help
people live a higher quality of life, maybe raise consciousness,
you know, maybe make a better world and.
Speaker 4 (33:35):
More gentler world, softer world in a good way.
Speaker 1 (33:38):
Right, And we could argue people are too soft now,
but like but like really it lands up like opening
the heart and allowing people's stories to be told by
being vulnerable.
Speaker 4 (33:47):
But again, like in the locker room, you'd never.
Speaker 1 (33:49):
Talk about your emotions, you know, oh yeah, I'm feeling
a little down today.
Speaker 4 (33:52):
Yeah I'm gonna play it. And I you know, that
would never be a thing.
Speaker 1 (33:55):
But when you're on the back end of your career,
when you're you know, you're retired now, Like not that
you need to go out and like wave the flag
like I'm depressed or I'm you know, alonely or whatever else,
but like you have to kind of come out of
your shell a little bit and like want to learn
and want to try and reinvent yourself and maybe open
to new ideas.
Speaker 4 (34:13):
But you get guys just stuck in their ways. Stuck
in their ways.
Speaker 1 (34:16):
They've medicated their their emotions with booze forever and they don't.
Speaker 3 (34:20):
Stuck keep going.
Speaker 1 (34:22):
Like that highly addicting, right, Booze is arguably the most
destructive substance.
Speaker 4 (34:27):
On the planet.
Speaker 2 (34:27):
It's the one you take a thing and turn it
to poison rather than the other way around.
Speaker 1 (34:31):
A day Like yeah, right, yeah, I know so, but
that's what guys know, and that's how they do it.
So you know, it's a nervous system depressant. So the
more you deal with your emotions and you deal with
your struggles, that way goes darker and darker and darker. Relationships,
fail relationship to sell relationships to your partners and your kids.
Speaker 4 (34:47):
They start hating you because you're bad.
Speaker 1 (34:49):
You know, you're just being a bad apple, and life
gets even harrier. And that's why it goes, you know,
it lands up going dark. For some of these guys,
they just got nowhere else to go. They got no
legitimate tools, and it's oh yeah, it happens all to off,
not just in hockey, right, this is like you look
at the veteran community and like, you know, like it's
a real thing. I mean, yeah, I would say that
(35:09):
mindful cannabis use is That is the difference between the
way I approached my relationship with cannabis Back in the day.
It was I say, recreational. There was no intent, there
was no awareness brought forth to the plant and on
some level of like honor, respect towards or like, it
was like let's just burn some flour and get get stoned.
Right again, there's no real relationship. There wasn't a healthy
(35:31):
relationship built there. Now I would say it's it's it's
it's about intentional cannabis uses. Like you can actually answer
the question of why it's always about intention, right, If
I'm just trying to get stone, well you'll just get stoned.
But if I'm trying to heal or if I'm trying
to create or use this in a different way.
Speaker 4 (35:49):
Intention is everything.
Speaker 1 (35:50):
So I would think that level of intent and mindfulness
and respect, right, I think that comes down to respect. Right,
I was misusing it, disrespecting the plant as I was
disrespecting everything. You can use this analogy towards food, right,
It's like you mindlessly eat and you have an unhealthy
relationship with your food and all of a sudden, you
bring some level of mindfulness to eating and chewing and
(36:10):
being present with your food, and all of a sudden,
like food has always been medicine, but now all of
a sudden, it actually takes on a new meaning, right,
And I think cannabis actually, when you when you frame
cannabis use being used as a medicinal plant or a
therapeutic plant, I think it shifts the conversation or something,
you know. But yeah, pain management again, like understanding the
(36:31):
psychology of the therapeutics that I could then now communicate
with language. There's certainly helping with pain, Like you know,
just say the chronic pain or the acute pain that
I was accumulating over the season seemed like it seemed
like chronic pain because it never went away.
Speaker 4 (36:45):
But then there was obviously some new levels of pain when.
Speaker 1 (36:48):
You, you know, get a direct blow to a certain
part of your right now you're feeling a different level
of pain.
Speaker 4 (36:52):
So there's always that level of pain management. I guess again,
at that.
Speaker 1 (36:56):
Time, I didn't realize how much it was actually helping
with pain because I just never you know, you're just
like you're in it, like when you're young and you're
you're trying to take on this role of being a fighter,
Like even if I had a certain level paine, I'm
not even sure if I would actually like I have
fully owned it. I'm fine, you know what I mean,
even though like I'm not, But yeah, I think the
(37:16):
scope of pain is in my experience has been.
Speaker 4 (37:20):
It's helped with all of it.
Speaker 2 (37:21):
So kind of moving forward, and you know, we want
to like to ad A lot of these episodes are
like on a good what does the next frontier look like?
And you've alluded to you know, I think we're going
to get to a better place where we already are.
What do you think that kind of looks like? You're
in the industry, what do you think that looks like?
From like a sports medicine standpoint, and then just kind
of a general pop standpoint, and then from a mental
(37:42):
health standpoint, like where do you see the future.
Speaker 3 (37:44):
And what are those barriers right now? Kind of to
getting to that point.
Speaker 1 (37:48):
Yeah, it's a it's some bit of a loaded question.
I see two paths. I still see a true natural play.
I see a pharmaceutical play. I see pharmaceutical companies entry
owning the cannabis space.
Speaker 4 (38:02):
Probably a good chunk of it.
Speaker 1 (38:03):
I think there's always going to be like the organic cultivator, right,
there's always going to be a market for people that
are looking for premium cannabis, not just like they say
factory farmed cannabis, right, or like the way we.
Speaker 3 (38:16):
People have the folder's coffee jug and yeah.
Speaker 4 (38:20):
Yeah that's it.
Speaker 5 (38:20):
Right.
Speaker 1 (38:20):
Do you want GMO cannabis or do you want you know,
organically grown. So I think there's gonna be you know,
two pathways. I think, you know, the federal the federal government.
Speaker 4 (38:31):
Needs to say de schedule.
Speaker 1 (38:34):
I think that the rescheduling opens up this pharmaceutical thing
that I'm talking about way too much. So I like
to deschedule it. But I mean, who knows how this
thing totally plays out. But sports, in the sports world,
as I mentioned earlier, I really think that this is like,
you know, this is going to be a huge part
of the sports science department. They talk about recovery and
keeping guys healthy, but keeping them off the ambient, off
(38:57):
the opioids, off the booze.
Speaker 4 (38:58):
I mean, this is an amazing tool. Again, it's already it's.
Speaker 1 (39:01):
Already in there in the locker rooms, but it's I'm
not sure it's funneled down from the top. It's kind
of like it's kind of guys doing their own thing
and you're sharing.
Speaker 4 (39:10):
Chah, yeah, exactly that.
Speaker 1 (39:11):
But I like to think it's going to be a
huge part of sports science. It's working too, it's working
that direction for sure, And in society, I like to
think that it's looked upon more as like that front line,
that wellness type of look versus so reactive where it's like, oh,
we got to be this sick, I got to have cancer,
I gotta have epilepsy. So I'd like to think that
we can get to a place where we're looking at
(39:32):
this in the through the lens of wellness, you know
what I mean. Yes, it does help people heal, and
it does does help people have an appetite when they're
going through the cancer, and you know, there's there's a
lot of amazing things it does, like in these real
true medicinal buckets. But I like to I like to
see this thing opened up in more in the world
of wellness. And that's really part and parce of like
(39:52):
where where I'm going with this, and is talking about
this more of a mindful way, like you know, like
pairing cannabis.
Speaker 4 (40:00):
With yoga or meditation.
Speaker 1 (40:02):
Right, it doesn't have to be like so reactive as
I I kind of mentioned as like getting ahead of this,
like really in the world of wellness, like let's let's
feel better, Let's let's.
Speaker 4 (40:11):
Take ownership over a wellness.
Speaker 1 (40:13):
Let's use cannabis in a much more intentional specific way
like we do. We don't need to eat fifty milligrams
or a hundred milligrams to get the benefits of cannabis.
Speaker 4 (40:23):
We we could.
Speaker 1 (40:24):
We could have one milligram, you know, two milligrams, It
gets tiniest amount, get the effect, you know, getting the flow,
start feeling into the body, or again a little bit
of the somatics, cultivating that relationship with self, you know.
Speaker 4 (40:37):
I think like we can do that with cannabis.
Speaker 1 (40:39):
I think, out of all the earth medicines that I've
you know, been fortunate enough to work with, cannabis is
probably the hardest one to master because it's so easily abused. Right,
And yes, you can abuse anything. I'd like to think that,
you know, people that use abuse cannabis will still wake
up the next morning, right, I mean, and no one's
dying from a cannabis over, right. Could we be more
(41:02):
mindful of their cannabis use. Yes, but to me, it's
still a.
Speaker 4 (41:06):
Version of harm reduction or drug diversion model. Right.
Speaker 1 (41:08):
We're getting people off hard drugs and if they need
to use cannabis for however long, they need to use
it to maybe avoid the withdrawal or cut the addiction.
Speaker 4 (41:17):
Out or you know what I mean.
Speaker 2 (41:18):
Yeah, I mean states that had recreational or robust medical
programs had significantly decreased opioid overdose and desks from either
synthetic opioys or heroin. And so to that point, it's
removing that other thing from there.
Speaker 1 (41:32):
Yeah, yeah, just getting people well, I mean, who knows
where it goes. But I'd like to think, like with
all the information that's out there, all the anecdotal stories,
I mean, cannabis movement was piggybacked off storytelling. The psychedelic
movement is doing the exact same thing. How many stories
have hurt people and people dying. We have to share
before you know, the Congress, and you know, they get
(41:54):
they hear us. I'm not sure if they want to
hear us, you know, but we keep doing what we do,
and we keep banging the drum and keep sharing the
stories and doing whatever we can to help more people, right,
I mean, it's just helping people increase quality of life.
Speaker 2 (42:10):
Yeah, Ron again, I want to I want to think
where can folks go to kind of find some of
this information or where you're at, like, yeah, where can
we send send people?
Speaker 1 (42:16):
Yeah, it's my personal website Rileycote dot com are kind
of showing the different things I'm involved in doing so
reaching out to me there and the phone number yeah,
email addresses there.
Speaker 4 (42:27):
So awesome.
Speaker 2 (42:28):
Thanks again, man, Yeah, thank you of course here see
you guys coming.
Speaker 5 (42:32):
Yeah, good interview. Man, it was good that kind of
from the bruiser to the heeler.
Speaker 4 (42:42):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (42:42):
Yeah, I kind of like it's nice, nice like circle
circle life. It's crazy like we think of all these
drugs is like party drugs. But Riley talked about it
where it was like we were going out, it was
booze and pills all the time here in this party mode.
It was actually like this is my way of actually
getting away from it. It was like partying less. And
I think that's actually very resonating to a lot of people,
(43:02):
like that culture of booze.
Speaker 5 (43:05):
And maintenance, maintenance exactly.
Speaker 2 (43:08):
I think that's just really neat to hear that from
someone that experienced about as much of like waking up
every morning, like you could you could see his face,
like thinking about it like that would probably just give
you the shivers. Man, if you're not I mean, he's
a tough guy. He's not afraid, but it's just like
you just you know, I don't know. You you do
something and you're like, I gotta do that.
Speaker 5 (43:28):
Get like I was saw when I went ice skate.
Speaker 4 (43:32):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (43:32):
Period, Now that's your job to do that at a
high level and fight and play hockey.
Speaker 3 (43:39):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (43:39):
And the other side of it, where you know folks
that are his age or even older that just kind
of kept going down that path of the booze and
the pills and you know, trying to find a purpose
and a value in their life after sports and all
these things.
Speaker 4 (43:54):
You know, it's semi okay.
Speaker 3 (43:55):
When you know the train's rolling, but then you're going
to real.
Speaker 2 (43:58):
Life and all these things are happening and it's a
huge change and he's seen the other side of it,
and so hopefully his story can be you know, continue
being an inspiration to others to kind of maybe just
look outside of that see if like, hey, if you're
going down this path, maybe there's other ways to help
and assist and remedy this similar like Marcus and others. Yeah,
there's there's other paths and things. And I just want
(44:19):
to thank Riley so much again. Open his home up.
Speaker 3 (44:21):
I know, his h his.
Speaker 2 (44:23):
Girlfriend's dog was like sick and coming through and so
he was dealing with a lot of stuff. So he
was really really generous with his time and so yeah, no,
thanks again and very excited about our next episode again
just like.
Speaker 4 (44:36):
Man.
Speaker 2 (44:36):
Yeah, he teaches us the difference between the weed business
and the cannabis industry.
Speaker 5 (44:42):
Yeah, and he broke that down expert he did.
Speaker 3 (44:44):
Yeah, So if you want to hear what that.
Speaker 4 (44:46):
Means, tune in the next episode. Until then, I'm greg lad.
Speaker 3 (44:51):
This is the War on Drugs.
Speaker 5 (44:52):
Let's go.
Speaker 2 (44:54):
The War on Drugs is a production of Lava for
Good and Stand Together Music and association with Signal Company
Number one. Stand Together Music unites musicians and their teams
with proven change makers to co create solutions to some
of the most pressing issues in our country, including criminal justice,
for foreign addiction recovery, mental health, education, free speech, and
(45:15):
ending the War on drugs.
Speaker 4 (45:17):
Learn more.
Speaker 2 (45:18):
At Standogether music dot org. Be sure to follow Lava
for Good on Instagram, Facebook, and threads at Lava for Good.
You can follow Clayton English on Instagram and x at
Clayton English, and you can follow Greg Laude on Instagram
and on x at Greg Latt. Executive producers Jason Flam,
Jeff Kempler, Kevin Wartis, and Collette Weintraub. Senior producers Kelsey Stenecker,
(45:43):
Zak Huffman, and Nick Stump. Post production by ten ten,
Audio talent booking by Dan Resnick Rez Entertainment Head of
Marketing and Operations, Jeff Cleiburn, Social Media director Ismadi Gudarama,
Social media manager Sarah Gibbons, and art director Andrew Nellis
It's always about intention, right. If I'm just trying to
(00:01):
get stone, well you'll just get stoned. But if I'm
trying to heal, or if I'm trying to create or
use this in a different way, intention is everything.
Speaker 2 (00:09):
Lava for Good and Stand Together Music present The War
on Drugs Podcast Season two. This season, we're diving deeper
into the real stories behind the.
Speaker 3 (00:17):
War on Drugs.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
It's impact, it's failures, and the people offering a better
path forward. Today on the show, fame Philadelphia Flyers and
forcer from two thousand and six to twenty ten, with
over two hundred NHL fights to his name, host of
the Nasty Knuckles podcast, and plant based health advocate mister
Riley Koto. All Right, welcome to another episode of the
(00:41):
War on Drugs. Yes, yes, maam, I'm Greg Blott, I'm
Clay and we're we're going to the hockey rink.
Speaker 4 (00:49):
Were going to the hockey rink.
Speaker 2 (00:50):
Yeah, I can't skate.
Speaker 5 (00:52):
I mean no, I mean I've done it, but I
wouldn't say I can do it.
Speaker 3 (00:57):
No, I don't think I need to do it anymore.
Speaker 2 (00:59):
I'm thirty evan now and I don't need to like
my limbs to start moving in ways that they're not comfortable.
Speaker 5 (01:06):
I'm used to skating with wheels, yeah, not with blades.
So yeah, that just that just feels dangerous and it
feels like is a lot more cutting could happen. Not
only could you fall, you could slice something. Yeah, I'm
not a fan of it. That's why I respect the
hockey players.
Speaker 2 (01:24):
I didn't tell you that they play eighty some odd
games and then you know, we're going to talk to
Riley Kota today. Name may sound familiar for a lot
of the NHL fans during like the mid two thousands.
He was the he was the guy not only was
on ice skates, he was the dude that when the
fight need to happen.
Speaker 4 (01:41):
He was on the punch.
Speaker 5 (01:43):
He was jersey.
Speaker 4 (01:44):
He was the game. He was the bruising and whacking
you a couple of times.
Speaker 5 (01:48):
That was That is my favorite hockey move. The jersey
over the good Yeah is a very dirty tech.
Speaker 2 (01:54):
We all learned that in a D two Mighty Ducks.
Speaker 4 (01:57):
Yeah, yeah, that is a great move.
Speaker 2 (01:59):
I think they even had Kenny grabbed the jersey start socking.
Speaker 4 (02:02):
Yeah that was great. Yeah, we watched that today.
Speaker 3 (02:05):
Shout out.
Speaker 2 (02:06):
But yeah, you know and when you're a like we
just see the fights everything like that, like we're good,
but like you don't think about all the other stuff
that goes along with that. So we talk about his
career when he started being like this enforcer character and
how that impacted him, like during his career and now after.
And for those who don't like watch hockey or don't
know hockey and these kind of think everyone's fighting all
the time, is like, oh no, there is people. This
(02:29):
was his job, like he was a defender and fighting.
Speaker 5 (02:33):
In hockey that that person is to go out there
and their job is to bust some heads.
Speaker 3 (02:38):
Yeah, like I look at it.
Speaker 2 (02:39):
It set the tone. It's thing if they do something wrong.
This is how you're getting a picture hitting a batter.
Speaker 3 (02:45):
It's that type of thing.
Speaker 5 (02:46):
And in hockey is not just hard fouls, it's actual
fist fights.
Speaker 2 (02:52):
Oh, they have stats and everything. There's stats, there's who
you find like, there's you can look at all like yeah, it's.
Speaker 4 (02:57):
Crazy, are you fight? And then you take a break.
Speaker 2 (02:59):
And it's he was talking about hundreds of fights, I mean,
particularly back then and you're in Philly, Yeah, and I
knows about Philly ud.
Speaker 6 (03:10):
Outside Yeah, so you know we talk about all that,
like what that actually does to you and how you know,
really you know it gets into a physical pain, mental pain,
all these things and how you know, in particular CBD, cannabis,
these things that really helped him and kind of like
where he's at right now, and just a really amazing
(03:31):
conversation for someone that.
Speaker 2 (03:32):
Like man just really worked the ringer an awesome dude,
awesome time. He invited us into his house. Really cool
place h outside of like Philadelphia. I dated a girl
that lived around that area and so he lived around there.
So with that, let's uh, let's talk to Riley cot
Let's get.
Speaker 7 (03:52):
It me and rig our guests and sponsors may sound smart,
we may even make some good points, but at the
end of the day, we're not medical professional. Okay, Please
don't get your medical advice from a podcast. Anything we
say on here does not constitute official medical advice. Relax,
(04:12):
consult your doctor before you start any new treatment plans.
Speaker 4 (04:17):
Got it all right?
Speaker 2 (04:19):
We are here with Riley Kote. We are in the
lovely Pennsylvania countryside over here. Riley, thanks for coming on
the War on Drugs. Yeah, thanks for having me, yeah,
and thanks for letting us into your house here you
live outside of Philadelphia. After your amazing care at the
Philadelphia Flyers managing their minor league team, coming back, you're
still doing podcasts with Flyers, still connected the team. And
(04:41):
I know I went to Penn State from two thousand
and six twenty ten, right when you were playing in Philly.
When I told like my Philly scumbag and I said
that was all dear respect and endearment, my scumbag friends
were just like, oh.
Speaker 3 (04:51):
Fuck yeah, coach, Yeah, we love coach. Yeah, just coach bash.
Speaker 4 (04:55):
Yeah, right, exact spot.
Speaker 2 (04:56):
How many fights did you get at it during your
NHL career NHL over.
Speaker 4 (05:00):
Two hundred hockey fights.
Speaker 1 (05:02):
Yeah, yeah, I mean it was like averaging thirty thirty
five a year and excluding preseason where you're going into
the jungle and fighting all these young guys coming up
and trying to make a.
Speaker 4 (05:12):
Name for themselves. So yeah, it was it was it was.
Speaker 3 (05:14):
Fighting like you from like, yeah, exactly.
Speaker 1 (05:15):
Fighting myself exactly. Yeah, it's pretty crazy. Yeah, but yes,
it's interesting to look back on it because it's I
almost forget, like what kind of life I lived, you know,
how you know how hard it was like is but
early on, it was like, you know, I just loved
it early, even though there was parts of it I
didn't love, Like there's again the emotional roller coaster of
(05:36):
jacking yourself up and then trying to sleep after.
Speaker 4 (05:39):
I didn't love that. But once you're in the fight,
there's something like extremely powerful about the amount of adrenaline
and energy.
Speaker 1 (05:46):
It's like you and another guy in front of well,
eventually playing the NHL like twenty twenty two thousand people
watching the game, right but in the Central Hockey League,
smaller crowds, but nonetheless like.
Speaker 4 (05:55):
You're you're you're you're in a you know, hand to hand.
Speaker 1 (05:59):
Combat, you know, hockey fight, and someone's gonna win, someone's
gonna lose, and it's just like it's just so it's
a intimate.
Speaker 2 (06:07):
So early on, I mean a lot of times grabbing
jerseys like it's right in the face, turning around and
I mean it's yeah, it's.
Speaker 1 (06:15):
Yeah, it's real, right, yeah, yeah, I mean it's it's
as real it's going to get. And you got, you know,
two big dudes, you know that that are willing to
punch each other in the face and stand there and
take it. So early on, it was like just taking
on this challenge of like, well, a new role, like
a new skill I had to learn, right, not even
just the fighting part, but like how to play the role.
Speaker 2 (06:34):
It was there like a coach on the team, like
did you get fighting, Like like yeah, it's it's kind
of like one of you to.
Speaker 4 (06:41):
Figure it out on your own, honestly.
Speaker 1 (06:43):
So you know, I've been around the fighting since I
was in junior hockey, so I've observed some of the
tough guys that we had on the team and how
they carried themselves and how they flexed and how you know, how.
Speaker 4 (06:53):
They did their job.
Speaker 1 (06:54):
So it was just really kind of taking pages out
of other people's books observing, and I started udying the
tough guys right, start studying how they.
Speaker 4 (07:02):
Carry themselves when they fought, how they did it, you know. Different.
Speaker 1 (07:06):
I was lefty, so you know, there wasn't many lefties.
The biggest, biggest, baddest dudes landed up being lefties. That
it was a different strategy now and fighting these guys.
But it was just like it was just like owning
the role and owning the role, and to a point
where it almost say, it consumed me maybe to a fault,
you know, because it becomes you, you know, like this
is just my gig, that's it.
Speaker 4 (07:27):
And then you say that you I say, like playing
a role. You are playing a role.
Speaker 1 (07:31):
It's like you know a character that you have to play.
But you also, as I mentioned earlier, you have to
back it up. You can't just act tough and then
when the other when the other guy's tough guy starts flexing,
then then you cowards like I don't want to fight anymore,
you know.
Speaker 4 (07:43):
What I mean. If you're gonna if you're gonna puff.
Speaker 1 (07:45):
Your chest out and bark at the other guy, you
better be ready. So there has to be the element
of actually owning it too, right and backing it up.
So I was actually taking different fight lessons.
Speaker 4 (07:56):
I was. I hired a fight code. Whatever it takes,
there's anything it takes. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (08:00):
So I did some boxing, did some dirty boxing, got
into some karate, you got into some taekwondo, and then
eventually got into like this really this jiu jitsu type
you just stand up greco Roman wrestling type of thing.
Speaker 2 (08:11):
Yeah, And so you know, you can't can't win every fight,
and so even when you are you know, knuckles getting
busted up, you're already playing hockey, which is incredibly physical sport.
Long seasons. You're getting hit in the face, you're getting
dragged down bloody. What was that treatment process looking like
at that point in your career. What were they doing
for you? And how much pain were you actually kind
of playing through? And yeah, what did that whole culture
(08:32):
look like for you?
Speaker 1 (08:33):
Yeah, I mean I don't think I ever fully healed. Yeah,
I mean you talk about being always banged up. You're
always dealing with, like, you know, the aches and the pain,
especially the hands from fighting. They said that you mentioned
the gripping. You know, you're grabbing on and you get
the fingers. You know, I got the crooked finger from
dislocating my finger. All these weird little things you don't
think of, Like the back of the neck is always
sort of you know, the face inflammation and obviously dealing
(08:56):
with the inflammation of the brain, which sure you're kind
of just ignored, you.
Speaker 4 (08:59):
Know, just like Sha.
Speaker 1 (09:03):
But you know, when I moved away from home when
I was sixteen years old, you know, you you move
away and you're you're introduced to this culture of hockey
and there's a lot of alcohol, there's a lot of partying, right,
And so I was introduced to that world and you know,
not really knowing it at the time, you know, the
world of self medicating, right, So like when I started
fighting for a living, there's obviously added stress to the job.
Speaker 4 (09:26):
It's like a different dimension of stress. You know. The
party keeps increasing.
Speaker 1 (09:29):
As you get older, you get you know, a new league,
a little more money, you know what I mean, the part,
but the party is there though always there was always
the party. And what comes with the party is you know,
more drugs and you know, more more means to to
disassociate or you know, to to numb and to self medicate.
Speaker 4 (09:46):
So booze was a huge you know, it's a huge.
Speaker 1 (09:49):
Part of my life for a lot of times in
a really destructive way. And then not understanding the energy,
not understanding the substance itself, misusing it obviously like most people, right,
and you know, going down some dark you know holes
with that. But I will say I also had a
relationship with cannabis since I was fifteen years old, but
(10:09):
I think helped balance out some of the booze issues
to the point where it didn't go as dark as
it could have. Like I've seen some guys go because
they didn't have a relationship with cannabis. I will say
my relationship with cannabis wasn't great either, I think without
understanding the science, like when I turned pro at twenty
years old, you know, because there wasn't a whole lot
(10:31):
of different type of products available. Still, you know, flower
would be pretty much anything you're going to find. I
would move from Canada to Memphis, Tennessee, like slim pickens
on what you're going to find. But I think it
was there that I really started. Now looking back, you know,
on my life and career, did I identify the therapeutics
in that cannabis offered me? Because I could remember like
(10:52):
like I'm fighting this big ass dude tomorrow. And then
you know, I could like actually chill, I could actually
fall asleep when I'm hearing horror stories. Some of the
other guys that you know that are doing the job,
like they like literally don't sleep right, like literally like
sweats and like not sleeping. So I could tell that
it helped with anxiety and sleep for sure, and then
(11:12):
definitely pain. I couldn't communicate it at the time, like
I didn't have the language because I was you know,
it was still like that was, you know, back in
two thousand and one, like there was, there was certainly
not podcast And I'm a naive, you know, Canadian hockey
player down in you know, Memphis, Tennessee and Mississippi, playing
on that side of it, like.
Speaker 4 (11:31):
Not understanding it, but feeling it. You know.
Speaker 1 (11:33):
It's like, you know, it's like, oh, the devil's let us.
It's like, well, surely sort of don't feel like the
devil's let us. I felt better and it's actually helped
me manage some of these things. So I always had
a relationship with cannabis, like my whole junior hockey career
and pro hockey careers. Really when I started to make
sense of like what it was doing, but I was
also still you know, engaging with a lot of gnarly
behaviors like drinking night quill on the bus after games.
(11:56):
We're trying to you know what I mean, because we
weren't travel with the cannabis the time, so you'd we
start to use other things to do the same thing
the cannabis was doing. Right, Oh, I need to relax, Yeah,
oh you got to sleep. You have some night quill,
you know what I mean. But they but they do
something completely different, right, I mean there's the night quill
hangover and these weird muscle relaxers, and then you get
(12:18):
into like the percosets, right, they start a Percoset fives.
Speaker 4 (12:21):
And then you know what I mean.
Speaker 1 (12:23):
So you'd be on the on the bus at the
time and it would just be like, yeah, after the game,
it's like everyone's trying to get in relaxed sleep mode.
Speaker 4 (12:30):
Booze pills, right, and night quill and whatever else.
Speaker 1 (12:32):
As you can imagine, it's it's just as a really
destructive cocktail. And so you see so many guys deal
with substance abuse issues and it's.
Speaker 4 (12:41):
Staring you right in the eye.
Speaker 1 (12:42):
It is right in the face, right, It's like it's
it's it's a major problem.
Speaker 4 (12:46):
But it's just the way it is. I think the
culture of it exactly, it's the culture.
Speaker 3 (12:49):
It feels normal.
Speaker 4 (12:51):
Normal.
Speaker 3 (12:51):
Of course, I'll take some night. I just saw my
other like we're passing around like it. I'll just yeah, yeah.
Speaker 4 (12:55):
Now the world is so focused on recovery and rest.
Speaker 1 (12:58):
Back in the day, like we wouldn't take days off,
like our days off would be getting absolutely crushed drunk
and then still showing up you's got to get a
workout and executive workout, steaming out and lift and all
these crazy things. And now it's like mandatory days off
by the NHL. Like the focus of recovery. It's a
big part of the work, right because you can only
work so much and then the body breaks down. And
(13:19):
you know, for in the business of preventing injuries and
keeping your players on the ice or on the field,
if you have a five million, six million dollars on
the guy on the shelf, it doesn't help the success
of the team.
Speaker 4 (13:30):
So now.
Speaker 1 (13:32):
You see guys using cannabis in these extremely mindful ways
and you know, just completely different than what we did
back in the day. So like a laugh, I'm like
geez man, Like you know here, I am like thinking
to myself, I'm like an idiot for you know, for
if you have trial and error for so many years
of trying to figure this out, but there was no manual.
Right now we're living an age of information. You guys
got these podcasts and there's awareness, but there's like science
(13:55):
to support it. There's all these different delivery systems as
I mentioned, but like very predictable outcomes based on the
varieties that we choose and what we're trying to accomplish.
Speaker 2 (14:05):
Right, right, That ignorance and that lack of like a
culture around it. Like with alcohol. I remember we were
in school. It's like five ounces of wine. It adds
up to a light beard ads it.
Speaker 3 (14:13):
You knew, you knew the quantity.
Speaker 2 (14:14):
Yeah, right, you may have had some trial and air
and some bad moments with some stuff and there was
like some stuff anymore.
Speaker 3 (14:19):
Yeah, you knew, and we just don't have that culture
around campus still even though this.
Speaker 4 (14:23):
Is to this day.
Speaker 1 (14:24):
Yeah, the argument of like, well, there's no you know,
cannabis product products for me because I associate cannabis with
being this stone I don't want to be stoned?
Speaker 4 (14:32):
Is that to me? That's a myth.
Speaker 1 (14:34):
Like there's certainly products that can help service anybody, whether
you want to get higher or not, just just to
kind of pick your variety and understand what you're putting
in your body and you know, you can make some.
Speaker 4 (14:45):
Sense of it.
Speaker 1 (14:46):
But it's it's it's hard to believe it's only been
what like twenty years a little bit longer, you know
that it's evolved that much.
Speaker 2 (15:01):
So Riley, you talk about kind of you were using cannabis,
you know, since you were fifteen on you know, on
So when do you feel that turn kind of happened
where you were just kind of taking it recreationally to oh,
I'm I'm curious about this or I want to do more.
Speaker 3 (15:17):
Was there like an ahaman? Was it speaking to someone?
Was it all post career? Was it during your career?
Speaker 2 (15:21):
Did that kind of lead to kind of like moving
on from the NHL after that?
Speaker 3 (15:25):
Yeah, I just love to hear your thoughts about where
that transition came.
Speaker 1 (15:27):
Yeah, the aha moment came my last year of playing
in twenty ten, the aha moment of like making sense
of my experience and connecting it to something that I
read supported by science, actually a book called Hemp for Health,
and it broke down the entire cannabis plant. You know,
the dig digestible protein source, like the food is a
viable protein source, hemp seeds, the hemp protein, you know,
(15:50):
the fibers always support cannabis, all my clothes, all I have,
you know, and I just like just understanding the viability
of the plant, the industrial applications of the plant, and
then getting into the true medicinal side of the cannabis
plant and making sense of some of these compounds. Right,
THHD was like the only compound I had heard of
at that time, and then you know, understanding CBD and
(16:12):
some of these other minor cannabinoids and their effect on
the body and the brain. And I think it was
just in that moment that I had this aha moment
of around holy shit, Like I felt like I was
duped almost right, yeah, but I also felt like energized
to be like wow, like, you know, I've been believing
in this thing for so long because I obviously it's
been by my side. I've been using it, not understanding it.
(16:34):
But now it makes way more sense to me. This
is like, there's a reason why this is illegal, has
nothing to do with you know, the propaganda machine. This
is an incredible resource, and you start you know studying it,
and you know, you get started connecting all the dots
to you know, synthetic fibers versus natural fibers and everything.
You know, I mean, it makes sense to the natural
world versus the chemical world or the synthetic world. So
(16:55):
I really just started getting excited about it and started
you know, speaking for the trees, if you will. Right
right out of the gate, when I retired, did I
start advocating for cannabis.
Speaker 4 (17:06):
But but what happened when I had that.
Speaker 1 (17:08):
Aha moment my last two surgeries in twenty ten, I
just used cannabis post surgery, proving to myself, because at
that point, I was dealing with some major substance abuse,
like parting way too much and still using you know,
pain pills way too way too often, sleeping pills. So
I chose to just attempt to use cannabis as like,
(17:29):
you know, I said, some bit of a social experiment
on myself, and I proved to myself for those two
surgeries nose surgery and this surgery on my finger that
I talked about earlier, just used cannabis throughout the pills
and haven't used a pharmaceutical drug since then. It's been
nothing but earth based medicine since then. And that just
led me down the rabbit hole of psilocybin, which I
(17:49):
had a similar kind of relationship with that cannabis, misunderstood, misused.
But then the cannabis and the psilocybin, you know, kind
of using them, you know together, pairing them, as you
could say, to treat some of their collateral damage from
fighting right now. So I always start to understand CBD
on the level of neuro the neuroprotecting value and you know,
the promoting neurogenesis, which as I mentioned, led me down
(18:13):
the researching of psilocybin, which seemed to mimic some version
of what CBD was doing. Oh, the neurogenesis, the neuroprotection property.
So I was like, shit, I'm like, if this is
helping me on this level with with the pain management anxiety,
and I actually stopped drinking for a year. The cannabis
was this amazing tool to transition out of the grind
and you know, give me something.
Speaker 4 (18:32):
To lean on and heal. And then it was the psilocybin.
Speaker 1 (18:35):
Similarly, it was like I gotta I gotta manage the
damage that I've caused.
Speaker 4 (18:39):
So I landed up using.
Speaker 1 (18:41):
Psilocybin differently, but much like I'd been using cannabis to heal.
And it really really was that was around the brain
more than than the physical And that's so what's neurogenesis
for those that don't know at hell?
Speaker 3 (18:53):
And like, what are you actually talking with that?
Speaker 1 (18:55):
Yeah, I think the simplest way to describe it, I
guess at some level of neuroplasticity, it's just it's it's
the brain cells reconnecting, maybe create, connecting new neuropathways, potentially
old ones. But it's just it's the brain reconnecting in
some way, shape or form, at least on some level.
Speaker 4 (19:12):
Right. It could take time to full full level.
Speaker 1 (19:16):
Of neurogenesis, but there's like connection happening, and there's like
some life happening in the brain, right, much like the
my ceial network underneath the soil.
Speaker 4 (19:23):
Right, there's like a level of like there's a world.
There's a world. Yeah, it's like things are happening, things
are connecting something. That's the simplest way I could describe it.
Speaker 1 (19:30):
It's just like the you know, the ability for maybe
new brain cell growth, but you condict connection of neurons
and brain cells.
Speaker 3 (19:38):
Yeah, I know.
Speaker 2 (19:39):
We talked to like Liz Carmus and she's a part
of the Cleveland Medical Study brain study that a lot
of the NFL players are participating that too, And she
has said since using CBD she had like her brain
the levels that they're measuring for you know what cd
CT could be damaged neurons, brain cells actually increased in
protection and it's helped her brain like, oh, recover physic
(20:00):
and it's just an amazing thing to hear. And I
think that's just so critical for people like that. Who
are you know, she's getting punched in the faces? I'm
too and like, yeah, that's an interesting thing. Have you
been able to like measure anything from like an FC
standpoint talking to doctors about what you know your brain
was looking like from an MRI casting, I'd be curious,
like what that looks like from that we're just like
physically feeling.
Speaker 4 (20:18):
Yeah, yeah, it's physically feeling. Honestly.
Speaker 1 (20:21):
Part of my strategy when I first retired was not
to get a diagnosis, because what I had seen was
that once you get labeled with a diagnosis, now you
get all these opinions. Yeah, you get all these different treatments,
and you get all these different people that wanted to
heal you and help you. Right, And I know it
sounds great and all, except for it's confusing, right, and
it's uh, and it was not the path that I
(20:42):
wanted to go. I was like kind of done with
that that that world, and so I was just the
way I'm wired is just like Okay, Riley, You're going
to do this yourself, right, you got yourself in this
whole You're gonna figure this one out.
Speaker 4 (20:53):
And then it was really just a it was a
combination of.
Speaker 1 (20:57):
Self study, right, myself and and the plants themselves, but
knowing that that I was just going to trust the
way I was feeling right, So I had no benchmark,
kind of like you could go back on the look
because I know some people that have and it'd be
nice to look. But like, I think that I would
have gotten dragged through the mud had I gone that route,
and I don't think I would be where I am today.
(21:19):
I don't think it would have accelerated the way it
accelerated the way it did. So no real benchmark, you know,
on a physical level, but it was just based on
the way the way I felt right. I mean, it
was just the emotions, the I guess, the darkness, the fog,
the sense of like purpose, right, because it's way beyond just.
Speaker 4 (21:36):
The brain, right.
Speaker 1 (21:37):
I mean, we have to be honest with like the physical,
the mental, the emotional, spiritual, right, It's like it's and
I think that's why these these earth based medicines are
so powerful, is because they address the whole being right,
and it's not.
Speaker 2 (21:50):
The foundation, it's the root causes. It's not the lipstick
on it. You know, you're not putting a band aid
over it.
Speaker 1 (21:55):
That's it, right, And you get to the nitty gritty, right,
they're all anti inflammatory. So it's getting to the or
of maybe where some of the pains coming from, or
the you know, the you know, the issues are coming
from soda dresses the inflammation. And there's obviously a more
of an esoteric mystical side.
Speaker 4 (22:09):
There is a level of you.
Speaker 1 (22:12):
Know, emotional release, spiritual release, and we talk about trauma,
you know, dealing with the physical trauma that was association
with right, So it's kind of attacking the whole being right.
We always look at it as a physical thing, but
it's way beyond that. And I think both of them,
you know both I say, psilocybin and cannabis in their
own lanes, have been extremely instrumental.
Speaker 4 (22:34):
For me to just you know, say get back on
my feet.
Speaker 1 (22:37):
Some people would argue all their crutches, and they say, well,
crutches help people walk, and you know it's like they
serve their purpose if respected and used properly, extremely powerful.
And so since then, you know, it's been me just say,
like banging the drama, like speaking to my experience as
much as I possibly can. Now, I have coaches and
(22:57):
players and you know, strength to conditioning guys in professional
sports organizations asking me for advice.
Speaker 4 (23:04):
Almost every player is using some version of a cannabis.
Speaker 1 (23:06):
Product, including the coaching staff, and the coaching staff would
rather have their players using cannabis than drinking alcohol exactly.
That's how what she's evolved. Hockey Traditionally most sports heavy
on the booze. So it's like it's amazing to see
the shift the levels of consciousness. And rightfully so, people
are just like now, maybe for some time now, I've
(23:28):
been waking up to the idea that we may have
been duped and these are actually legitimate tools to help
us through a daily grind and sports recovery.
Speaker 2 (23:37):
I'm curious, like, do you feel you've had more resistance
from folks that are athletes who are very you know,
controlling about a lot of what they put in their body,
or like Layman's people when you've talked about this and
more steps, I would almost think like athletes just because
they are very skeptical of anything that they're about to
put in, maybe they would believers immediately after because they
know what feels right. I'm just curious, like you feel
(23:58):
that that's been part of a trans for for folks
or the other way.
Speaker 4 (24:01):
It's the older generational alumni.
Speaker 1 (24:04):
Yeah, they were like they were born in the thick
of you know, the war on drugs. They're born in
the thick of the propaganda machine and and heavy drinkers,
and so a lot of these guys driving those emotions down,
driving the emotions down, and and you know, and and
buying into the belief system that all drugs are the same, right,
traditional substance abuse program AA programs. A lot of a
(24:25):
lot of guys gone through the AA programs, which is
like all substances bad. We're going to have to be
a Buddhist monk to get through this type of deal.
Speaker 4 (24:32):
Right.
Speaker 3 (24:33):
Funny thing about the guy that started A Yeah, he
thought he saw God. Yeah, that's why he started h A.
Speaker 1 (24:39):
I know, right, it's crazy, the irony of it, right,
So we have Actually part of my work is to
try and introduce cannabis and psilocybin too the recovery settings
and actually reform the addiction model because from my own experience,
and I know several others that I've used cannabis and
psilocybin to get off drugs.
Speaker 4 (24:55):
They use it as an exit drug, right. I mean,
it's like you're giving.
Speaker 1 (24:58):
You something to I don't say, wean off or it
help you deal with the the the withdrawal, and it
help you make sense of the core issues you're dealing
with the trauma itself. So that's a whole other world,
you know that. That's that I'm kind of trying to
penetrate with this, But it's generally the older generation guys
that have had subscribed to traditional substance abuse programs because
they're anti everything.
Speaker 4 (25:19):
But we've made a ton of leeway there. You know.
Speaker 1 (25:22):
I'm working with the Flyers right now, the Flyers alumni,
to build out a you know, precision dose, customized cannabis
program for the alumni for a lot of these guys
that have just been anti cannabis for good reason because
they're you know, on the programs, they don't know any better,
but they're suffering so much now and they're seeing all
the headlines and you know, they're knowing people that are
using CBD no THC products and using high CB varieties
(25:45):
for inflammation or sleep. But they're still thinking in their
minds that CBS a violation of the sobriety, which is
crazy to think about. So that's their own issues like
that they have to you know, they'll they help to
figure out themselves. But that But that's the conversations that
we're having, and that's where it's going.
Speaker 4 (26:00):
And I'd like to think here, if it's.
Speaker 1 (26:01):
Not already happening officially through strength and conditioning, you know,
the sports science department actually integrating cannabinoids into their therapy,
not just like having the players use it on their own,
but actually making a part of their strength and conditioning
recovery program. So that's where it's going. If it's not
already fully there yet. It's it's amazing how quickly this
thing's morph But that the older generation, young guys are
(26:22):
easy because they're always looking for an edge. They want
to feel better, they want to optimize, they want to
they want to play longer, you know, they want to
make the money as long as they can, so they'll
do anything. Then then you get in the world of
microdosing psilocybe, and it's like a whole other world of
sports performance.
Speaker 4 (26:38):
Like talk about the mind and like focus.
Speaker 2 (26:40):
And PC do it and others I think that is
such like a foreign const like someone taking a drug
and doing work. I think, like people, that'll be a
burrage for a lot of people for a very long.
Speaker 1 (26:50):
Time, it is, But that one seems to be like
warp speed too, because people are realizing that we've again
been duped.
Speaker 4 (26:56):
It's like, oh, there's riddling. There's all these drugs.
Speaker 1 (26:58):
That are trying to do this, like the coffee and
all the stimulants that people are just chasing the dream with.
But then you got something that's super gentle, you know,
very predictable, focused, concentrated energy that does actually improve performance
and you know individual performance, team performance, right, So it's yeah,
it's wild to think about. And then you talked to
(27:18):
some of these UFC fighters and they're talking about micro doses.
They're talking about like mini doses and like one gram
one and a half grams before combat. Yeah, where you're
seeing so many high level performers, we're talking about psilocybin,
you know, microsing Now, but.
Speaker 2 (27:31):
How prevalent do you think that is in like the
NHL or major sports. How many players do you think
do that on a semi regular basis?
Speaker 4 (27:37):
Now, It's it's hard to say, but it's quite a bit.
Speaker 1 (27:40):
Oh yeah, and it's more than you may think, and
it's people that you might not think. Yeah, it's like
and it's catching on. Just like the cannabis thing. It's
like when I was coaching in the American Hockey League,
towards the last second the second last year of my coaching,
guys were infusing peanut butter, infusing coconut oil with cannabis
and sitting in the back of the bus and just
like so they could sleep, so they got unwined and
(28:01):
like you didn't see the beers on the bus. So
it's like, like you want to wake up in the
morning feeling better, and you want to perform better. And
there's times to go, you know, the times guys still
go and rip it up, there's no question. But the
age of like archaic drinking like it was in the past,
that's there is a thing of the past. And guys
are so focused on taking care of their moneymakers, their
temples right, and and they're gonna do whatever they have to.
(28:24):
And you're seeing this in all levels of performance, not
just hockey, not just sports.
Speaker 4 (28:28):
As you mentioned, high levels.
Speaker 1 (28:30):
Executives, the Silicon Valley coders, anybody I work with some
some dentists, dental surgeons like so focused, so calm that
you know that you can be in that moment and
feel like you can.
Speaker 4 (28:41):
Do the best work. Right.
Speaker 1 (28:42):
Yeah, so that's what you're seeing. So and guys talk right,
they're not gonna wait for the FDA. They're not waiting
for the gatekeepers, you know, the regulators that come in
like you know, to me, this is like green light,
like they've paved the way with cannabis. This is a
green light to you know, to optimize in a healthy way.
The craziest thing about it is just the laws of
around it. That's the most destructive piece.
Speaker 4 (29:02):
Right.
Speaker 3 (29:09):
You don't have the name names or do anything, but
are there people?
Speaker 2 (29:12):
Are there people that you saw within your career or
anything that you were like, man, I wish I saw
wish I caught him like who I am now? I
wish I could just sit him down and been like
I know what's happening with your head?
Speaker 3 (29:22):
I know it's happening aboudy, Like here's a better Yeah.
Speaker 4 (29:25):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (29:25):
There was so many of those guys during my playing
career and posts and I still and I still run
into the Yeah. I mean it's like there's there's guys
taking their own lives.
Speaker 4 (29:36):
Like you see, seems like.
Speaker 1 (29:37):
Almost every other week, you know, hear these dark stories,
just guys within you know, the Flyers alumni network, and
you see them and it's just like every time you
see the way they moved, the way they're carrying themselves,
you could tell, you know, they could be optimized or
they could optimize their lives a little bit better, right,
And I know what I know, But like you know,
I also know that they only know what they know, right,
(29:59):
And like a lot of the stuff that I educate
people on advocate for is still a taboo, right, there's
still a stigma around, especially the older generational guys. But yeah,
I mean I look back and even though I was playing,
it's like I wish guys would have drank less and
smoked more, you know what I mean. And like you know,
there's a lot of guys that never got into the
cannabis while they were playing.
Speaker 4 (30:17):
And some guys are so proud they will never get into.
Speaker 1 (30:19):
The cannabis, you know what I mean, Because I'm I'm
an alcohol guy, you know what I mean. You got
to stay by the you know, bye bye old faithful there.
Speaker 4 (30:26):
But every day. I feel like there's people I run into.
Speaker 1 (30:31):
I think it's it's some bit complex because there's, you know,
the physical pain guys deal with, you know, the inflammation,
the actual physical pain, and then there's an emotional pain,
right depending on how the guy left the game.
Speaker 4 (30:43):
We're talking about more mainly like retired guys.
Speaker 1 (30:46):
I think it is the toughest part because now you've
left your team, your teammates, that locker room right, right,
it's like a it's a family, right, And it was
very organized.
Speaker 4 (30:57):
It was very structured.
Speaker 1 (30:59):
You know, you give your schedule handed out to you
the start of the year. You knew what you're doing
every day, every week, every month for the whole season,
what to wear, game days, practice days, and then all
of a sudden, you're on the other side of the fence,
like looking at your career, not knowing who you are.
There's an identity crisis that follows. Right, It's like holy shit,
like now what you know? Because I thought I was
a hockey player, That's how I thought I was, but
(31:21):
that was the job you did. So I think what
happens is like they're dealing with physical pain, they generally
generally mismanage that pain with alcohol and other drugs and
you know, legal drugs, paint and pain killers, the whole bit.
Then there's the emotional pain of like, you know, like
however their career played out, because it's usually ends up
(31:42):
finishing with an injury or you know, you leave the
game not in your terms right, and so it's hard
for guys. And then it's like figuring out who am
I and where do I go from here? So there's
all these questions like finding your purpose, redefining yourself.
Speaker 4 (31:55):
Who am I? Now? I got pain? I got to
manage it.
Speaker 1 (31:59):
So it's like the snowball effect of like, Okay, we're
just going to keep doing what we did forever because
it was fine then because I had a purpose and
I you know, I had a schedule and everything was
good and it was in the NHL making a lot
of money. Now I'm not I'm gonna still do it
the same way. And it gets dark, and it gets
dark and the snowballs. And if you don't snap yourself
out of it or find you know, more more sustainable
means to deal with your stress and pain and suffering,
(32:23):
you're just going to keep digging yourself into a.
Speaker 4 (32:25):
Whole, darker hole, a darker hole and darker hole.
Speaker 1 (32:27):
And that's really where it goes, is that guys become
suicidal because they don't know who they are. They've numbed
their pain for for however long, and they've never addressed it,
never got to the root cause of it.
Speaker 2 (32:39):
And they're guys, and like, I mean, I know, like
my dad was a compet, a secret service Asian. His
dad was an army you know, he was on a battleship,
and like, you know, they don't know how to communicate
like that either, And I'm you know, it's that sort
of thing, so like you don't have that network around
you be like I'm not okay, Like you're just like
I got to suck this up or something or not.
Speaker 4 (32:56):
Yeah, that's it.
Speaker 3 (32:56):
That's like you have no moral yeah, no role models.
Speaker 4 (32:59):
And that's the way I was trained.
Speaker 1 (33:01):
I was that really conservative, tough it out guy, right,
But I realized that being vulnerable was a superpower and
not that I woke up one morning, but I'm gonna
be vulnerable. But like when I started speaking on behalf
of cannabis plants and the mushrooms, like you're speaking for
something much greater than yourself, right, you're speaking for you know,
all intelligence, you know, all mother nature. Right, we're speaking
(33:23):
to something that's gonna help not just myself, but I
like to think all mankind if you can, you know,
look at it that way, right, It's going to help
people live a higher quality of life, maybe raise consciousness,
you know, maybe make a better world and.
Speaker 4 (33:35):
More gentler world, softer world in a good way.
Speaker 1 (33:38):
Right, And we could argue people are too soft now,
but like but like really it lands up like opening
the heart and allowing people's stories to be told by
being vulnerable.
Speaker 4 (33:47):
But again, like in the locker room, you'd never.
Speaker 1 (33:49):
Talk about your emotions, you know, oh yeah, I'm feeling
a little down today.
Speaker 4 (33:52):
Yeah I'm gonna play it. And I you know, that
would never be a thing.
Speaker 1 (33:55):
But when you're on the back end of your career,
when you're you know, you're retired now, Like not that
you need to go out and like wave the flag
like I'm depressed or I'm you know, alonely or whatever else,
but like you have to kind of come out of
your shell a little bit and like want to learn
and want to try and reinvent yourself and maybe open
to new ideas.
Speaker 4 (34:13):
But you get guys just stuck in their ways. Stuck
in their ways.
Speaker 1 (34:16):
They've medicated their their emotions with booze forever and they don't.
Speaker 3 (34:20):
Stuck keep going.
Speaker 1 (34:22):
Like that highly addicting, right, Booze is arguably the most
destructive substance.
Speaker 4 (34:27):
On the planet.
Speaker 2 (34:27):
It's the one you take a thing and turn it
to poison rather than the other way around.
Speaker 1 (34:31):
A day Like yeah, right, yeah, I know so, but
that's what guys know, and that's how they do it.
So you know, it's a nervous system depressant. So the
more you deal with your emotions and you deal with
your struggles, that way goes darker and darker and darker. Relationships,
fail relationship to sell relationships to your partners and your kids.
Speaker 4 (34:47):
They start hating you because you're bad.
Speaker 1 (34:49):
You know, you're just being a bad apple, and life
gets even harrier. And that's why it goes, you know,
it lands up going dark. For some of these guys,
they just got nowhere else to go. They got no
legitimate tools, and it's oh yeah, it happens all to off,
not just in hockey, right, this is like you look
at the veteran community and like, you know, like it's
a real thing. I mean, yeah, I would say that
(35:09):
mindful cannabis use is That is the difference between the
way I approached my relationship with cannabis Back in the day.
It was I say, recreational. There was no intent, there
was no awareness brought forth to the plant and on
some level of like honor, respect towards or like, it
was like let's just burn some flour and get get stoned.
Right again, there's no real relationship. There wasn't a healthy
(35:31):
relationship built there. Now I would say it's it's it's
it's about intentional cannabis uses. Like you can actually answer
the question of why it's always about intention, right, If
I'm just trying to get stone, well you'll just get stoned.
But if I'm trying to heal or if I'm trying
to create or use this in a different way.
Speaker 4 (35:49):
Intention is everything.
Speaker 1 (35:50):
So I would think that level of intent and mindfulness
and respect, right, I think that comes down to respect. Right,
I was misusing it, disrespecting the plant as I was
disrespecting everything. You can use this analogy towards food, right,
It's like you mindlessly eat and you have an unhealthy
relationship with your food and all of a sudden, you
bring some level of mindfulness to eating and chewing and
(36:10):
being present with your food, and all of a sudden,
like food has always been medicine, but now all of
a sudden, it actually takes on a new meaning, right,
And I think cannabis actually, when you when you frame
cannabis use being used as a medicinal plant or a
therapeutic plant, I think it shifts the conversation or something,
you know. But yeah, pain management again, like understanding the
(36:31):
psychology of the therapeutics that I could then now communicate
with language. There's certainly helping with pain, Like you know,
just say the chronic pain or the acute pain that
I was accumulating over the season seemed like it seemed
like chronic pain because it never went away.
Speaker 4 (36:45):
But then there was obviously some new levels of pain when.
Speaker 1 (36:48):
You, you know, get a direct blow to a certain
part of your right now you're feeling a different level
of pain.
Speaker 4 (36:52):
So there's always that level of pain management. I guess again,
at that.
Speaker 1 (36:56):
Time, I didn't realize how much it was actually helping
with pain because I just never you know, you're just
like you're in it, like when you're young and you're
you're trying to take on this role of being a fighter,
Like even if I had a certain level paine, I'm
not even sure if I would actually like I have
fully owned it. I'm fine, you know what I mean,
even though like I'm not, But yeah, I think the
(37:16):
scope of pain is in my experience has been.
Speaker 4 (37:20):
It's helped with all of it.
Speaker 2 (37:21):
So kind of moving forward, and you know, we want
to like to ad A lot of these episodes are
like on a good what does the next frontier look like?
And you've alluded to you know, I think we're going
to get to a better place where we already are.
What do you think that kind of looks like? You're
in the industry, what do you think that looks like?
From like a sports medicine standpoint, and then just kind
of a general pop standpoint, and then from a mental
(37:42):
health standpoint, like where do you see the future.
Speaker 3 (37:44):
And what are those barriers right now? Kind of to
getting to that point.
Speaker 1 (37:48):
Yeah, it's a it's some bit of a loaded question.
I see two paths. I still see a true natural play.
I see a pharmaceutical play. I see pharmaceutical companies entry
owning the cannabis space.
Speaker 4 (38:02):
Probably a good chunk of it.
Speaker 1 (38:03):
I think there's always going to be like the organic cultivator, right,
there's always going to be a market for people that
are looking for premium cannabis, not just like they say
factory farmed cannabis, right, or like the way we.
Speaker 3 (38:16):
People have the folder's coffee jug and yeah.
Speaker 4 (38:20):
Yeah that's it.
Speaker 5 (38:20):
Right.
Speaker 1 (38:20):
Do you want GMO cannabis or do you want you know,
organically grown. So I think there's gonna be you know,
two pathways. I think, you know, the federal the federal government.
Speaker 4 (38:31):
Needs to say de schedule.
Speaker 1 (38:34):
I think that the rescheduling opens up this pharmaceutical thing
that I'm talking about way too much. So I like
to deschedule it. But I mean, who knows how this
thing totally plays out. But sports, in the sports world,
as I mentioned earlier, I really think that this is like,
you know, this is going to be a huge part
of the sports science department. They talk about recovery and
keeping guys healthy, but keeping them off the ambient, off
(38:57):
the opioids, off the booze.
Speaker 4 (38:58):
I mean, this is an amazing tool. Again, it's already it's.
Speaker 1 (39:01):
Already in there in the locker rooms, but it's I'm
not sure it's funneled down from the top. It's kind
of like it's kind of guys doing their own thing
and you're sharing.
Speaker 4 (39:10):
Chah, yeah, exactly that.
Speaker 1 (39:11):
But I like to think it's going to be a
huge part of sports science. It's working too, it's working
that direction for sure, And in society, I like to
think that it's looked upon more as like that front line,
that wellness type of look versus so reactive where it's like, oh,
we got to be this sick, I got to have cancer,
I gotta have epilepsy. So I'd like to think that
we can get to a place where we're looking at
(39:32):
this in the through the lens of wellness, you know
what I mean. Yes, it does help people heal, and
it does does help people have an appetite when they're
going through the cancer, and you know, there's there's a
lot of amazing things it does, like in these real
true medicinal buckets. But I like to I like to
see this thing opened up in more in the world
of wellness. And that's really part and parce of like
(39:52):
where where I'm going with this, and is talking about
this more of a mindful way, like you know, like
pairing cannabis.
Speaker 4 (40:00):
With yoga or meditation.
Speaker 1 (40:02):
Right, it doesn't have to be like so reactive as
I I kind of mentioned as like getting ahead of this,
like really in the world of wellness, like let's let's
feel better, Let's let's.
Speaker 4 (40:11):
Take ownership over a wellness.
Speaker 1 (40:13):
Let's use cannabis in a much more intentional specific way
like we do. We don't need to eat fifty milligrams
or a hundred milligrams to get the benefits of cannabis.
Speaker 4 (40:23):
We we could.
Speaker 1 (40:24):
We could have one milligram, you know, two milligrams, It
gets tiniest amount, get the effect, you know, getting the flow,
start feeling into the body, or again a little bit
of the somatics, cultivating that relationship with self, you know.
Speaker 4 (40:37):
I think like we can do that with cannabis.
Speaker 1 (40:39):
I think, out of all the earth medicines that I've
you know, been fortunate enough to work with, cannabis is
probably the hardest one to master because it's so easily abused. Right,
And yes, you can abuse anything. I'd like to think that,
you know, people that use abuse cannabis will still wake
up the next morning, right, I mean, and no one's
dying from a cannabis over, right. Could we be more
(41:02):
mindful of their cannabis use. Yes, but to me, it's
still a.
Speaker 4 (41:06):
Version of harm reduction or drug diversion model. Right.
Speaker 1 (41:08):
We're getting people off hard drugs and if they need
to use cannabis for however long, they need to use
it to maybe avoid the withdrawal or cut the addiction.
Speaker 4 (41:17):
Out or you know what I mean.
Speaker 2 (41:18):
Yeah, I mean states that had recreational or robust medical
programs had significantly decreased opioid overdose and desks from either
synthetic opioys or heroin. And so to that point, it's
removing that other thing from there.
Speaker 1 (41:32):
Yeah, yeah, just getting people well, I mean, who knows
where it goes. But I'd like to think, like with
all the information that's out there, all the anecdotal stories,
I mean, cannabis movement was piggybacked off storytelling. The psychedelic
movement is doing the exact same thing. How many stories
have hurt people and people dying. We have to share
before you know, the Congress, and you know, they get
(41:54):
they hear us. I'm not sure if they want to
hear us, you know, but we keep doing what we do,
and we keep banging the drum and keep sharing the
stories and doing whatever we can to help more people, right,
I mean, it's just helping people increase quality of life.
Speaker 2 (42:10):
Yeah, Ron again, I want to I want to think
where can folks go to kind of find some of
this information or where you're at, like, yeah, where can
we send send people?
Speaker 1 (42:16):
Yeah, it's my personal website Rileycote dot com are kind
of showing the different things I'm involved in doing so
reaching out to me there and the phone number yeah,
email addresses there.
Speaker 4 (42:27):
So awesome.
Speaker 2 (42:28):
Thanks again, man, Yeah, thank you of course here see
you guys coming.
Speaker 5 (42:32):
Yeah, good interview. Man, it was good that kind of
from the bruiser to the heeler.
Speaker 4 (42:42):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (42:42):
Yeah, I kind of like it's nice, nice like circle
circle life. It's crazy like we think of all these
drugs is like party drugs. But Riley talked about it
where it was like we were going out, it was
booze and pills all the time here in this party mode.
It was actually like this is my way of actually
getting away from it. It was like partying less. And
I think that's actually very resonating to a lot of people,
(43:02):
like that culture of booze.
Speaker 5 (43:05):
And maintenance, maintenance exactly.
Speaker 2 (43:08):
I think that's just really neat to hear that from
someone that experienced about as much of like waking up
every morning, like you could you could see his face,
like thinking about it like that would probably just give
you the shivers. Man, if you're not I mean, he's
a tough guy. He's not afraid, but it's just like
you just you know, I don't know. You you do
something and you're like, I gotta do that.
Speaker 5 (43:28):
Get like I was saw when I went ice skate.
Speaker 4 (43:32):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (43:32):
Period, Now that's your job to do that at a
high level and fight and play hockey.
Speaker 3 (43:39):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (43:39):
And the other side of it, where you know folks
that are his age or even older that just kind
of kept going down that path of the booze and
the pills and you know, trying to find a purpose
and a value in their life after sports and all
these things.
Speaker 4 (43:54):
You know, it's semi okay.
Speaker 3 (43:55):
When you know the train's rolling, but then you're going
to real.
Speaker 2 (43:58):
Life and all these things are happening and it's a
huge change and he's seen the other side of it,
and so hopefully his story can be you know, continue
being an inspiration to others to kind of maybe just
look outside of that see if like, hey, if you're
going down this path, maybe there's other ways to help
and assist and remedy this similar like Marcus and others. Yeah,
there's there's other paths and things. And I just want
(44:19):
to thank Riley so much again. Open his home up.
Speaker 3 (44:21):
I know, his h his.
Speaker 2 (44:23):
Girlfriend's dog was like sick and coming through and so
he was dealing with a lot of stuff. So he
was really really generous with his time and so yeah, no,
thanks again and very excited about our next episode again
just like.
Speaker 4 (44:36):
Man.
Speaker 2 (44:36):
Yeah, he teaches us the difference between the weed business
and the cannabis industry.
Speaker 5 (44:42):
Yeah, and he broke that down expert he did.
Speaker 3 (44:44):
Yeah, So if you want to hear what that.
Speaker 4 (44:46):
Means, tune in the next episode. Until then, I'm greg lad.
Speaker 3 (44:51):
This is the War on Drugs.
Speaker 5 (44:52):
Let's go.
Speaker 2 (44:54):
The War on Drugs is a production of Lava for
Good and Stand Together Music and association with Signal Company
Number one. Stand Together Music unites musicians and their teams
with proven change makers to co create solutions to some
of the most pressing issues in our country, including criminal justice,
for foreign addiction recovery, mental health, education, free speech, and
(45:15):
ending the War on drugs.
Speaker 4 (45:17):
Learn more.
Speaker 2 (45:18):
At Standogether music dot org. Be sure to follow Lava
for Good on Instagram, Facebook, and threads at Lava for Good.
You can follow Clayton English on Instagram and x at
Clayton English, and you can follow Greg Laude on Instagram
and on x at Greg Latt. Executive producers Jason Flam,
Jeff Kempler, Kevin Wartis, and Collette Weintraub. Senior producers Kelsey Stenecker,
(45:43):
Zak Huffman, and Nick Stump. Post production by ten ten,
Audio talent booking by Dan Resnick Rez Entertainment Head of
Marketing and Operations, Jeff Cleiburn, Social Media director Ismadi Gudarama,
Social media manager Sarah Gibbons, and art director Andrew Nellis
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