March 18, 2025 • 46 mins
For years, the headline was: “Heisman Trophy winner and NFL All-Pro running back Ricky Williams quit the NFL to smoke weed.” The real story? Much deeper. Cannabis helped Ricky manage pain, both physical and mental, in ways the media and the sports world didn't understand in 2004. Now that the NFL has progressed significantly on cannabis policy, Ricky reflects on the cost of systems that punish people for making their own health choices. What happens when we stop treating all substances like one-size-fits-all dangers? And how much potential—on the field, in the workplace, in life—is held back when those closest to a problem aren't in control of the solution?
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
My own lived experience, was I prefer to the point
where I jeopardize my career. Is I prefer the cannabis
because it felt more like I was taking care of
myself than the pills, where I felt more like I
was masking stuff.
Speaker 2 (00:14):
Right, Wow, that's real.
Speaker 3 (00:17):
Lava for Good and Stand Together Music present The War
on Drugs Podcast Season two. This season, we're diving deeper
into the real stories behind the War on Drugs, its impact,
its failures, and the people offering a better path forward.
Today on the show, two time All American Texas Longhorn
and nineteen ninety eight Heisman Trophy winner, two thousand and
two NFL League Leader in rushing, All Pro and Pro
(00:39):
Bowl selectee for the Miami Dolphins, and longtime cannabis advocate
mister Ricky Williams.
Speaker 4 (00:50):
All Right, welcome to season two of The War on Drugs.
Speaker 5 (00:53):
Yes, yes, we're talking to real people. We get to
hear their real stories about how they've been impacted by
the world.
Speaker 2 (01:00):
And you know, we're fighting it. We're working the world.
Speaker 5 (01:04):
It's still waged, it's going, but we're still fighting a
good fight.
Speaker 3 (01:09):
We're gonna kick it off with one that I know
we were both really excited to talk to. Oh yeah,
Ricky Williams, former Texas running back. Yes, uh NFL running back.
I'm a big Ravens fan. He played with the Ravens
for a little bit, Saints, all these other teams, and
I remember like those interviews that he was doing because
there was so much pressure like on people don't know
(01:32):
the Saints. Essentially New Orleans Saints traded like their entire
draft to move up to get this guy.
Speaker 2 (01:37):
He was the only draft pick.
Speaker 4 (01:38):
Like it was there, literally their only draft traded, and
so everything was on like the team was I don't
even know.
Speaker 3 (01:42):
They won maybe like two games of a year before
they stunk, and this was like the savior and the
media was just all around him and it was not
used to have interviews like his helmet on Advisor and
like so you could and people that you know, it's
just like, oh look at look at crazy guy.
Speaker 2 (01:58):
He doesn't like people.
Speaker 4 (02:00):
Yeah, you look at those old interviews. They weren't that
from that long ago.
Speaker 3 (02:02):
Like the lack of knowledge like it actually helps sometimes
and know like we are moving in a good direction
kind of seeing like how people talked about him back then,
like he would not be talked about that way now right,
someone was saying, then there'd be a bunch of people
being like, obviously this is someone dealing with either is
you know, like we are the problem. You know, there
would be like something back and forth. Then it was
just like look at this loopy yeah.
Speaker 5 (02:23):
Yeah, And I don't know if this is where it
came from, but it definitely is the sentiment from the
sports journalists when you look at like Steven A. Smith,
stay off the weed, like and it's like, man, you
need some weed. Yeah, because you're yelling this early in
the morning, like you wake up this loud, Like my
(02:45):
son wakes up that loud, and it is terrible.
Speaker 3 (02:48):
Yeah, you know, it's it's crazy the world. You know,
it's twenty years ago about that he was. And you
know back then the NFL, you could be suspended for
cannabis for a long time.
Speaker 2 (03:00):
Super strict, yeah they.
Speaker 3 (03:01):
Yeah, and it was arbitrary the way that's testing now
that we know where you have a certain amount in
your system, and it was and we as we know,
like it's they try to almost do it as like
other drugs that are water soluble, like you know.
Speaker 4 (03:14):
Like cocaine or something like that.
Speaker 3 (03:15):
Yeah, in there, but you have cannabis in your system
or in your urine and test positive, you know, months after,
And so they're doing it on these arbitrary notions. I
know they've laxed it obviously. Moving forward, they've made changes
where they don't suspend anymore, they required you know, more violations.
Speaker 5 (03:30):
Or they reduce the amount that could be in your
system right exactly drastically, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 4 (03:35):
Or they increase the amount. Yeah yeah, they increase the amount.
Speaker 2 (03:38):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (03:38):
And really the reason that a lot of these things
have been changed is partly because of you know, his advocacy.
And I mean I look back in two thousand and
four and like I said, I just know the story
from through the media and how they painted it, and
it wasn't really social media like it is, so he
could never really come out and kind of tell his story.
(03:59):
You see them on one interview here, our interview here,
and you can just gather what you can from a
ten minute interview. But to actually be able to say, hey,
this is what happened, this is what I was doing,
this is why I was doing it, It's a whole
different thing. And I think a lot of people didn't
have that as an outlet, and I think that's the
difference now that people can get their story, you know, out.
Speaker 4 (04:21):
There with that Ricky Williams, here's the interview.
Speaker 2 (04:28):
What's going on, man? Thank you for having me. Man.
Speaker 5 (04:32):
It's beautiful out here, beautiful home, beautiful area. I don't
want to tell anybody where you are right now because
we want to keep it as peaceful as possible.
Speaker 2 (04:41):
We do not want people out here. Man, it's too peaceful. Man.
Speaker 5 (04:45):
Great to have you here. Heisman Trophy winner, pro Bowler
advocate for the people, Ricky Williams, Glad to have you here, Man,
good to be here. Yes, yes, I guess I got
to hear it from you because we hear your story,
especially somebody that was as prolific as you were in
(05:06):
the sport. We hear their narration, their story of what happened.
But can I get at least part of that from you?
From San Diego to Texas to New Orleans to where
we're at now. Yeah, you give us the the Ricky
Williams story in his own words.
Speaker 6 (05:26):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (05:27):
Yeah, So I grew up and I grew up in
San Diego, raised by a single mom. As a kid,
young kid, I had a dream that I would be
a professional athlete. But at the time, I thought it
would be a professional baseball player. Okay, big big Padres fan.
Played Little League, and then when I got to eighth grade,
I started playing football for the first time, and after
(05:49):
a couple of years, I was really good. So I
was really good at baseball football. Got to high school,
and I'm a big Bo Jackson fan, So my dream was.
Speaker 6 (05:58):
To play baseball and Footballah.
Speaker 1 (06:00):
I got drafted by the Phillies, got a chance to
play some baseball, and I got a scholarship to go
to the University of Texas to play football. At the time,
I thought I would just play college football and then
when I was done, I would go be a professional
baseball player. But I had so much success on the
football field and not enough success on the baseball diamond
that it kind of got flipped and I gave up baseball.
Speaker 6 (06:19):
And I stuck with football.
Speaker 1 (06:22):
Then I went to the got drafted the big all
the trade from the Saints and Mike dickerd traded everything
and the next year's first round fish everybody you're drafted. Yeah,
I was only a couple of free agents, but I
was the.
Speaker 6 (06:37):
Only draft pick. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (06:39):
And then I had had three so so years in
New Orleans, had a lot of injuries. Then I got
traded in Miami, and that first year in Miami really
took off, led the NFL and Russian Pro Bowl, All Pro,
all that good stuff. And then I came back for
my second year in Miami, and to me, it kind
of started before then. But really the story started that
(07:00):
second year, my second year in Miami, because what occurred
in the first year of Miami is I failed a
drug test and I was put in the NFL's drug program.
Speaker 5 (07:09):
But let me, I'm sorry not to cut you off,
but you failed to drug test after putting up ridiculous numbers.
Speaker 1 (07:16):
It was right before I put up the right before,
right before I okay, okay, the timing of it was
was interesting. So now that's the kind of the football
story up to a certain point. Now I'm going to
tell more of the cannabis side of the store. So,
growing up, my stepdad was a rosta and so and
I was a huge, huge Bob Marley fan. So my
(07:36):
first my first relationship with cannabis was not as a consumer.
Speaker 6 (07:41):
It was just appreciating two.
Speaker 1 (07:43):
Wise men who I respected who used cannabis.
Speaker 6 (07:49):
First book I ever read front to back.
Speaker 1 (07:51):
Was Bob Martley's biography, so I was like in it.
But because I was a professional, I mean because I
wanted to be a professional athlete and I was AH
and I grew up in the eighties.
Speaker 6 (08:02):
Just say no, they didn't. They didn't mix. They didn't
mix in my in my head. And also I grew
up in San Diego, so it was it was all around.
It was all around.
Speaker 1 (08:13):
And I had a couple of friends that smoke, So
I probably smoked three or four times before I left
high school.
Speaker 6 (08:19):
That's it.
Speaker 1 (08:20):
I get to college and I started noticing that sometimes
on Fridays the guys would go to my to sean
the other running back storm room and shoot dice and
pass a blown around. And so I was just trying
to be cool with the upperclassmates. I you know, mix
it up with them. But again, maybe ten times. And
(08:40):
then I get to my senior year, my senior year
in college, and I came back from my senior year
because I wanted to win the Heisman Trophy.
Speaker 6 (08:48):
And the season started off kind of bumpy, you know.
Speaker 1 (08:51):
I had a couple of rough games, broke up with
my girl, and I just was in a really bad place,
like why did I come back?
Speaker 2 (08:57):
You know?
Speaker 6 (08:57):
I was like, lo.
Speaker 1 (08:59):
My roommate was a smoker, so he was like, you
just need to chill, and he slid his bond over
to me. I remember, I took a hit, coughed a little bit,
and I went upstairs. I was laying on the laying
on the bed, looking up and I noticed it was
the first time in weeks that I wasn't obsessing about
all the things that were going wrong. And then that
that that moment of clarity, I started to look to
(09:20):
the future and think about things getting better. That was
just one night, go to sleep, wake up the next morning,
and go on with my with my week.
Speaker 6 (09:27):
The next two weeks of the season, I had back
to back.
Speaker 1 (09:29):
Three hundred yard games, rushing three hundred yard games back
to back, and after that, I was like, Okay, there's
something there's something here, right, there's something here.
Speaker 6 (09:38):
I'm not I'm not all in yet, but I can't.
Speaker 1 (09:40):
Say that this is a bad thing because it just
helped me like get out of a phone right and
kind of change change to my season around. So like
when the Heisman Trophy, fast forward, go through a bunch
of the draft stuff, and during the draft prep, I
moved back to San Diego and had a little money,
you know, so I bought my first ounce.
Speaker 6 (10:01):
I remember about my first out.
Speaker 2 (10:05):
And this is this is you you you're this is.
Speaker 6 (10:08):
Right after my senior before the draft.
Speaker 2 (10:11):
So it's never like.
Speaker 5 (10:11):
You was just a dude just smoking before every game
or it.
Speaker 1 (10:16):
Was never it was never that, but but it was
like a relationship was developing, you know, a relationship was developing.
So I had a little free time. I was training
and I just smoke a little bit to relax. But
I didn't have a real relationship at this point. I
just was messing around and I had some free free time.
I heard somebody say cannabis is synonymous with freedom, you know,
(10:37):
and I think because of the war on drugs. I
don't think it always has to be this way, but
I think because of the past and the war on drugs,
it kind of is right. We're either, you know, some
because some of my white friends, right, they had enough
money that if they got a little they got in
a little bit of trouble, nothing happened. So of us
if we got you know, we got put over and
we got a roach in the car.
Speaker 6 (10:57):
We're in the system.
Speaker 1 (10:58):
So so since then I got a little money, I
got help. I can figure out if I get caught
with this little bit, so I had a little bit
of freedom. Then I get drafted to New Orleans and
I kind of put it aside because now I got
to focus on football. So go through my rookie year,
and my rookie year is a disaster. I mean just
mainly because of injuries. I just was hurt the whole year.
(11:18):
Second year, I trained really hard. I come back killing
it in week ten and I break my ankle.
Speaker 6 (11:25):
Literally.
Speaker 1 (11:26):
I broke my ankle on my thousandth yard. If you
look in the stats, you see I got a thousand
yards my second year in New Orleans just because it
was my ankle.
Speaker 6 (11:34):
Snap. And something in me snapped at that moment because.
Speaker 1 (11:38):
I realized I put all, like all my heart and
so into this game and it can just be taken away.
Speaker 6 (11:43):
Literally like that.
Speaker 1 (11:44):
Yeah, And so I thought, okay, I need to start
working on a plan. B you know what am I
going to do other than football? Because I can't trust
this and I wasn't playing and I was hurt. That's
when I really started smoking, you know, And part of
it was you know, my body was healing, but most
of it was trying to get my mind right because
(12:06):
you know, as an adult, all my identity had been
put in to being a football player, and I wasn't
so attached to that anymore because I couldn't trust it,
and so I needed something to like over clear my
mind and try to figure things out. And that's when
I noticed myself smoking more so. About a year later,
I get traded to Miami, and I was in a
sweet spot right. It was kind of like back to
(12:28):
when I was in college where I was working on
putting the pass behind me. I had a new start
in Miami, and I was just thinking of like envisioning
what the season is going to be like.
Speaker 6 (12:38):
So it's right.
Speaker 1 (12:39):
Before it's right before the season starts, and I come
to work and there's a little like thing on my.
Speaker 6 (12:44):
Locker that says you're being tested today.
Speaker 1 (12:47):
I was like what Because NFL back then, NFL tested
only one time a year, but they had a big window,
big window when they can test, but it was only
one test when I was in New Orleans. That one
test was in training camp, and I thought when I
got to Miami that the test would be in training camp,
but it wasn't it was in the off season, so
that's when they got me. But again a couple of
(13:10):
times a week. But I wasn't like blowing before games
or anything. So I got I get popped, and then
I'm like, okay, well they got me, so I'll just
stop smoking. That That was my attitude that at that
point it's nothing but the first test. They just put
you in the program. And so when you're not in
the program, that test one annual test. When you are
(13:33):
in the program nine times a month, you get tested
nine times a month, and if you pop, then you
get a fine, and then if you pop again you
get the you get four.
Speaker 6 (13:41):
Game suspension, and then you get a year suspension.
Speaker 1 (13:44):
So I was I was just on the map where
I was getting tested nine times a month, and I
was like, it's fine, and they make you talk.
Speaker 6 (13:50):
To the therapist once a week.
Speaker 1 (13:52):
So I was like, you know, I can't hurt to
have someone to talk to, and I don't you know,
I'm good not smoking.
Speaker 6 (13:59):
About four game in the season, I was like, I
can't do this.
Speaker 1 (14:01):
If I smoking, you are to put your body on
the line. After I started smoking, and then I tried
to stop. I was like, I ain't going back to
the farm. I was like, I'm not going back to
that life. So then it was like, okay, how do
I keep smoking and pass the tests?
Speaker 2 (14:18):
You know?
Speaker 6 (14:19):
And then it took me.
Speaker 1 (14:19):
A little while to figure it out, but I figured
out how to how to make it through with passing
the test. Had a little system, so I make it in.
The drug program is two years. You got to make
it through two seasons and then you're out of the program. Okay,
So found my little system. Made it through the first year,
good Pro Bowl, all that good stuff. You know, nobody knows, right,
(14:39):
nobody knows, but I'm good that next year I come
back again. That's back to where we were. My second
year in Miami, that's when everything kind of changed. So
so my second year in Miami, I was thinking it's
time for me to break the two thousand yeard rushing
mark and like put my name on a map. I
was like, this is it, you know, kind of all
my eggs back in the basket.
Speaker 6 (15:00):
I said, this is it. And it just didn't work
out that way.
Speaker 1 (15:03):
The Dolphins didn't get a quarterback, and they just kept
giving me the ball, giving me the ball, giving me
the ball and my body was beat up. And I
remember we played the Eagles on it was Monday night.
Speaker 6 (15:14):
I played the Eagles.
Speaker 1 (15:16):
And we lost that game and we were at a
playoff contention, and I was hurt, and I remember I
smoked that night. I went to bed and the dude
was coming to drug test me at six in the morning,
So set my alarm.
Speaker 6 (15:28):
I had my little system. I drink my little.
Speaker 1 (15:29):
Drink, so my urine clear for five hours. Okay, so
I wake up early.
Speaker 6 (15:34):
I was that late.
Speaker 1 (15:35):
I woke up early, drank my drink, and then I
fell asleep because part of the system is you got
to drink, to drink twice and then you're good. But
I fell asleep and I woke up when he knocked
on the door, and I was like, damn.
Speaker 6 (15:46):
I was like, I'll probably be fine. Pissed.
Speaker 1 (15:49):
Got a letter of the next week that I fell
a drug test. So now it's the second drug the
second failed test. And the big thing about the second
failed test is they find you. And the biggest thing
about the fine as they take it out of your check,
which means the team has to know that you failed
a drug test.
Speaker 5 (16:05):
Okay, Okay, So this is the NFL. It's not even
the team.
Speaker 1 (16:08):
It's not even the team. So the idea some players
don't care, some players do. I did at the moment,
so nobody knew I was in the drug program.
Speaker 6 (16:17):
Nobody.
Speaker 1 (16:18):
The NFL does a decent job of keeping it confidential,
so the team didn't know. But after that second test,
the public doesn't know, but the team knows, you know.
And it feels silly to say it now. But in
that time, like the team knowing that I smoked, it
was like, you can relate to this. It was like
they got something on me. Now you know they got something.
Speaker 2 (16:40):
This is going to be what they point.
Speaker 1 (16:42):
To exactly exactly when I go for a renegotiation to
get paid, right, they got they got something on me.
So I was like okay, So I kind of pushed
through that. And then something happened where it leaked to
the public that I failed a drug test, and that
was something. Again, it feels silly saying it now.
Speaker 6 (16:58):
That's something.
Speaker 1 (16:59):
I don't think I was ready four right, it's one
thing the team knows and they're going to keep it
on the low. But now the public knows, you know,
and I not that my image was one hundred percent pure.
But at least back in two thousand and four, I
felt like, you know, it would tarnish my image.
Speaker 5 (17:18):
I mean, I think most athletes at that point would
think that men four.
Speaker 1 (17:25):
So I was kind of bent out of shape. And
at the same time, I was thinking, like, this is
a lot. You know, this is a lot.
Speaker 2 (17:31):
And so.
Speaker 1 (17:33):
When I fell another drug test and it was going
to be a four game suspension, I just said I'm out.
I said I'm good. I said it's time for me
to do something else. Anyway, I think the significant thing
about that moment is before then I didn't consider cannabis
is being medicinal, right, there was, at least in the
football world, there was nobody having that conversation, nobody talking
(17:54):
about it like that. So I thought I just was
smoking because that's what we do. But when I had
to stop while doing in the football season, I realized,
I'm not doing this just for fun. I'm doing this
because it helps, right. It helps my body, it helps
my mind. It helped me feel good about getting up
in the morning and doing this and doing this again.
Speaker 2 (18:12):
Right.
Speaker 1 (18:13):
And also I noticed that when I started smoking more
that I stopped taking the pills that they gave me
less and pills that they were giving me. They're giving
me Pax for my social anxiety, and they were giving
me intocend.
Speaker 6 (18:27):
It's an insight, like an anti inflammatory.
Speaker 1 (18:29):
And the guys would joke, It's like it's funny because
if you didn't take the anti inflammatory the night before,
your body was hurting at practice the next day. So
the guys would joke, you know, there's gonna be a
bad day if they forgot to take their pills. And
I started thinking about it. In order for us to
feel good to practice, we have to take pills. And
when I noticed I started smoking, I didn't have to
(18:51):
take as many pills to practice. And when I stopped
smoking because I felt drug test, I noticed I was
taking a lot more pills and I just didn't feel
good to me.
Speaker 6 (19:00):
So just the side effects.
Speaker 1 (19:01):
And again I wasn't reading anything, and there was no
one that was talking to me about it, so I
didn't have the language. But my own lived experience was
I prefer to the point where I jeopardize my career.
Is I prefer the cannabis because it felt more like
I was taking care of myself than the pills, where
felt more like I was masking stuff.
Speaker 2 (19:21):
Right, Wow, that's real.
Speaker 1 (19:27):
This is what I've realized about pharmaceuticals. It's like so
much about the pills that the doctor was giving me.
It was like to cover stuff up, to hide it,
to pretend like it wasn't there.
Speaker 6 (19:38):
Like the pills make it better.
Speaker 1 (19:40):
But whether it was the anxiety or the underlying cause
of the pain, the pills didn't make it better. It
just put me in a position where I was pushing
myself beyond where it was good for me. And I
noticed with cannabis it was it was making me feel better,
but from a different perspective of being more aware of
what hurts, where I feel the pain, so that I
can go to treatment, so that I can stretch, so
(20:01):
that I can do something about it, rather than just
popping a pill and going about my business.
Speaker 5 (20:06):
Yeah, well you popped the pill and then well everything hurts.
But when you a little more tuned in, you're like, oh,
wait a minute, is this part of my knee that's yeah, okay,
And it.
Speaker 1 (20:17):
Might seem simple, but true story, true story. My my
second year in Miami, I had this little, this little strain.
Speaker 6 (20:26):
Right behind my calf muscle and go to.
Speaker 1 (20:29):
The doctors and I'll try to get him to explain
it to them, and they didn't know what I was
talking about. And so finally I said screw it. And
we had like the medical books in the training room,
so I just got one of the books and I
like looked at that part of my body and I
looked really closely, and I saw there's this little tiny muscle,
you know, and I said, it's this is called the
(20:50):
papladio muscle. I said, it's that muscle right there. And
once I showed the doctor what the muscle, exactly what
muscle it was, they knew how to treat it and
it got better that quick.
Speaker 6 (20:58):
So I just found it's a different mindset.
Speaker 1 (21:02):
And because I think the mindset of most athletes, hopefully
it's changing coming in is it's kind of like they
can use my body anyway they want, and I have
to follow all their rules right, And to me, I
just couldn't make that work. So I think it's things
are changing and people in the leagues are allowing the
players to consume cannabis. It is giving the players more
(21:25):
tools to be able to better take care of themselves,
and I think it helps just in the mindset of
an athlete. There's something that it does that allows us
to feel more free and not like we're boxed in
to do the work that they want us to do
and we can't even take care of ourselves.
Speaker 5 (21:41):
As you're saying this, when you're saying you stepped away
from it, I'm allowed a lot more insight, you know.
I think people can now, Like just you saying that,
that's like, oh wait a minute, Like, yeah, that was
definitely decision for yourself.
Speaker 6 (21:54):
Tell you, I can feel it.
Speaker 1 (21:55):
I can feel like if I come back and try
to do this, something's gonna I'm gonna get hurt because
my heart's not in it.
Speaker 6 (22:00):
I'm somewhere else.
Speaker 1 (22:01):
I had this taste of the things that I could
be experiencing, and again I started doing the math, and
I said, my life is short, and if I don't
have take this time to get to know myself and
live a little bit now, I might never have the
opportunity to. And I feel like I accomplished everything I
wanted to and needed to with football, so I felt
good about taking that next step.
Speaker 6 (22:21):
I was free.
Speaker 1 (22:23):
It was scary to make that call, but as soon
as I hung up the phone, like the cannabis stuff aside.
To me, I think cannabis was my ticket out. It
gave me a way to get out. It truly did.
Speaker 6 (22:33):
It opened my mind to even imagine that I could
be something other than a football player.
Speaker 1 (22:38):
I think a lot of guys the reason they stayed
playing football so long is they can't imagine themselves doing
anything else that would feel as good as football. And
I started to see, I'm not gonna be able to
do this for the rest of my life. I need
to find something else I love. And when I started traveling.
Speaker 6 (22:54):
I was like, I love I love this experience.
Speaker 1 (22:56):
Of being able to go anywhere in the world and
have an experience and be myself. And then I was
traveling and I met this guy who gave me a
book on alternative healing, and I started flipping through it,
and I noticed there was a whole chapter on cannabis,
and it was the first time that I had seen
cannabis even mentioned alongside of something positive. So, of course,
(23:19):
but my experience, I was all in this book and
I started reading everything I could, and I started to
realize there was a whole nother side of the story
that we'd never been exposed to, and then I became
passionate about trying to get to the bottom of that.
Speaker 2 (23:32):
Right.
Speaker 5 (23:32):
So, because you said you went to school for you've
been to several.
Speaker 6 (23:36):
Yeah, I've been a bunch of school.
Speaker 2 (23:39):
When was it?
Speaker 5 (23:40):
Like, Yo, this is the because they call it alternative medicine,
but I don't like to call it that because that
tries to make it sound like it's crazy.
Speaker 6 (23:48):
I actually came wait before this, exactly.
Speaker 1 (23:51):
Yeah, this is the part of the conversation that I
don't think anybody talks about enough, you know, and part
of it is read we don't have the language. It's
like the dark ages of cannabis. When it was made illegal,
we lost we lost the language, we lost the way.
Speaker 6 (24:06):
People used to talk about it.
Speaker 1 (24:07):
But if you go back to the late eighteen hundred,
doctors knew how to talk about cannabis, and they had
they had some clarity about all the things that could
help with But I feel like we've lost we'd lost
our ability to how to talk about it. And I
think the biggest the biggest motivation for my advocacy is
to empower people with the language and the permission to
(24:28):
share their actual experience about it. Because we're talking about
something that happened in two thousand and four, two thousand
and five. It took ten years from there before I
really felt confident enough to be an advocate right. And
up until that point, my advocacy was.
Speaker 6 (24:43):
Not lying about it, right, not lying.
Speaker 1 (24:46):
Too much about right. That was my advocacy is somewhat
telling the truth. And I remember when I came up here,
right after I retired, I was sitting interviewing for sixty
minutes with Mike Wallace, and Mike Wallace asked me, point, Blake,
you know NFL tested you right now.
Speaker 6 (25:01):
Would you pass the drug test? And I remember like.
Speaker 1 (25:04):
Sitting there and like being nervous because all these people
are watching, you know, And I was like, I have
an opportunity to lie or to tell the truth, you know,
And somehow and I told the truth right, And to me,
that was the That was the first, my first form
of true advocacy. But it wasn't until ten years later
(25:24):
where I was at. I was living in Austin because
I went back to school after I retired, and a
teammate of mine, Kyle Turley.
Speaker 6 (25:31):
Big big time advocate, he's all in.
Speaker 1 (25:33):
He called me up and he said, hey, there's a
cannabis conference at the convention Center in Phoenix, won't you
come out and tell your story? And I was in
Austin and I was getting a lot of flak for
my reputation, so I was like, I'm good.
Speaker 6 (25:46):
I said, I'm good, and I hung up.
Speaker 1 (25:48):
The phone and I sat there and I thought about it,
and I was like, first, I was like.
Speaker 6 (25:52):
There's a cannabis convention at a convention center.
Speaker 2 (25:55):
I was like whoa.
Speaker 1 (25:56):
I was like okay, and then I thought, you know,
fuck it. Everybody knows I smoke anyway. So I called
them back up and I was like, I'll do it.
That's when that real advocacy started. I remember I went
to Phoenix and I was sitting on this stage is
probably like one hundred.
Speaker 6 (26:10):
And fifty people in the audience.
Speaker 1 (26:12):
And it was the first time that I told my
story that I actually shared how it made me feel
and how I used it, and it was like it
was cathartic. It was healing, you know, because it was
something that I kept inside that I didn't talk about,
and to share with people right powerful, most powerful though
(26:32):
it was afterwards, twenty twenty thirty people came up to
me afterwards and basically told me I was their hero.
And because I hadn't put myself out there, I didn't
have exposure to the way that my.
Speaker 6 (26:42):
Story touched a lot of people.
Speaker 1 (26:44):
Because the way it unfolded for me, I kind of
felt like a coward, you know. But to see that
because I, you know, tried, I made an effort that
it really inspired other people. When their parents or their
coaches were giving them a hard time about smoking, they
could point to me and say, look, you know, he doing.
Speaker 6 (27:03):
It, and look at him. I was like, WHOA. And
I remember something my mom always says. He says, go
where you're celebrated, not where you're tolerated.
Speaker 1 (27:12):
And I felt like in that cannabis convention, right for
the first time since I failed a test.
Speaker 6 (27:17):
That I was actually being celebrated, you know, without.
Speaker 1 (27:21):
Without the astro, you know, and people would like the
stories would even if someone wrote a positive story about me,
right at the bottom, they would say he failed multiple
drug tests, right, And I was like, right, like, we
really need to throw that in everything.
Speaker 2 (27:34):
You don't.
Speaker 1 (27:36):
It's going to be funny to see how it evolves
because most of us, most of us adults now have
come out of a place where the prohibition, where it
was always something different or you had to hide it.
But I imagine, you know, maybe even my youngest kid
or pretty soon after, it's not going to have that
(27:57):
stigma so much that they have to deal with, so
they to have more of a clean slate. And I
think what they come up with and how they use
it is gonna be even We're gonna see it keep
growing and evolve.
Speaker 5 (28:07):
Right, and then it might not even be as abusive
as I would say how I used it, you know,
because now you don't have to run off somewhere, you
don't have to go to one person's basement, and you
don't have to put a bunch of spray on and
eye drops and try.
Speaker 2 (28:22):
To whole thing.
Speaker 5 (28:23):
Like now you feel like now you're like, okay, I
just needed two quick hits, but now it's this whole process.
So you're like, I gotta finish it. Yeah, you know,
I can't bring it back home like I got so yeah.
So that's that's insightful, man, because so for me, I
do comedy and I did Last Common Standing and I
(28:46):
had some weed jokes in there, and I remember there
was people like, man, you're not gonna be able to
talk about weed. It's gonna be on NBC, and I'm like,
at this point, it's legal in California. It's like I'm
talking about something that's happening. And I wound up winning
the show. But it was one of those things where
it's like, no, I knew what I was talking about.
(29:07):
I just had to you know, you just had to
push through and believe you.
Speaker 6 (29:11):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (29:11):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 5 (29:12):
So I mean I definitely looked at you on the
sports side and I'm like, no, like, there's so many
people that tried to put that on. Oh, well you're
gonna not You're not gonna have drive, You're not gonna
have ambition, You're not gonna you know.
Speaker 2 (29:26):
What I'm not.
Speaker 5 (29:26):
Able to do is deal with all y'all putting stuff
on me.
Speaker 2 (29:31):
But I'm able to deal with it when I have
a look.
Speaker 1 (29:33):
I'm telling you, I had a conversation today and the
dude talking to me, he's like, yeah, it's like I smoke.
Speaker 6 (29:37):
To treat my adhd.
Speaker 1 (29:39):
I was like, no, no, no, I was like, you spoke
to deal with the people that are trying to like
label you the way you are. Yeah, So that's that's
actually And then we got to it. That's the deeper
reason why I was saying I can't do this if
I spoken, you know, it's just being around. This is
(29:59):
real talk, okay, because part of the part of the
drug conversation is about people using substances or whatever to
escape their problems. Okay, and that's real. But you don't
need cannabis to do that. There's a lot there's a
lot you can watch TV, there's a lot of ways.
There's a lot of ways.
Speaker 6 (30:15):
To do that.
Speaker 1 (30:16):
And when I launched my brand Heisman, our tagline is
sparked Greatness because that's my background and that's my story,
and my thing is cannabis helps us recover, Okay, but
if you ain't doing shit, you don't have nothing to
recover from, right, So it has to be it has
to be a balance of actually doing something right, because
even the creativity has to be the balance of doing
(30:37):
something right and the need to like come back afterwards
and reflect and make the connection so that you can
go back and do it again right. And and so
I realized that football, I was good at it, but
I had like it wasn't really what I was supposed
to be doing. In order to keep myself doing what
I wasn't supposed to be doing.
Speaker 6 (30:56):
I had to smoke, you know.
Speaker 1 (30:59):
And and and I think that's part of the definition
of medicine because sometimes in life we have to do
things that we don't really want to do, but we
have to learn to take care of ourselves while we're
doing it. But also the recognition of when it's time
to move on and do something else.
Speaker 5 (31:16):
I wanted to ask you, what's your relationship with the NFL.
Are you advocating with them or is it a relationship
with them now?
Speaker 1 (31:25):
I've had several conversations with the NFL, mainly on the
Players Association side, because when I was going through my appeals,
when I fell drug tests, the part of an appeal
process is they send someone from the Players Association to
support you. But at the time, cannabis was still so
stigmatized it wasn't really much support, you know. They just
(31:46):
kind of sat off in the corner, like didn't say
anything anything to fit me. And so the conversations I've
had with them is really getting them to change their
attitude about cannabis, to say, this is not about substance.
Speaker 6 (31:57):
Abuse, this is about wellness, you know.
Speaker 1 (32:01):
And I've been talking to him about that over and
over again, and finally they started to listen and in
the last collective parting agreement, they said, we're taking cannabis
off the table as a negotiating piece for substances of
abuse and we're talking about.
Speaker 6 (32:15):
It as wellness.
Speaker 1 (32:16):
And that's what started to get the NFL to lighten,
so they don't suspend players anymore for filling cannabis tests.
They've raised the amount of THC metabolites in the urine
to like three hundred and fifty nanograms per milli leader
And that doesn't make sense, that doesn't mean anything to anyone,
but it's basically, you have to have a huge cannabis
(32:36):
problem in order for the NFL to get on the
NFL's radar, where when I was, you just had to
have a little system.
Speaker 5 (32:45):
Where can people or how can people do what you're doing,
or how can they support what you're doing and advocate
for the wellness side of the cannabis industry.
Speaker 1 (32:56):
Yeah, So what we've seen in the past decade is
the NFL really changing their stance about head injuries, for example.
So there's been a huge shift where because of the fans,
really because of the fans that the NFL is having
to take player safety more seriously.
Speaker 6 (33:14):
And they they've done it.
Speaker 1 (33:15):
And I think when cannabis gets lumped into that conversation
about player safety and player wellness, I think that's when
the NFL really starts to listen. When on social media,
you know, they're seeing people say it's a travesty that
these guys aren't allowed to take care of themselves with
natural through natural means, and they're forced to take pharmaceuticals.
And I already know that's what's been opening the NFL's
(33:38):
minds those that kind of talk. And I think the
more fans right become more player centric and saying, you know,
for what Riggy Williams, you know, puts his body on
the line to do all those things, he should definitely
be allowed to consume cannabis to take compared to the alternatives.
Speaker 5 (34:00):
Yeah, And I mean in the grand scheme of things,
it would benefit them. You're getting you're getting the whole person,
or at least you know them, closer to one hundred
percent than just trying to keep putting the band aid
on whatever's actually wrong.
Speaker 1 (34:16):
But also the alternative because and this is this is
when I talk to the NBA players right. This is
the argument that they used in the bubble helped. But
the argument that NBA players used was, you know, after
after a game and they have a specific story.
Speaker 6 (34:32):
I think they must have all got a line.
Speaker 1 (34:34):
They said, those specific games that we have back to backs,
They said, after a game are adrenaline is so hyped up?
You know that we don't have the ability to come down,
so a lot of us are drinking and doing other things. Right,
imagine if we could smoke that allow us to come
down and get ready to do it the next day. Right,
that's the car. They all say the same thing, and
they use the back to backs. But I think when
(34:56):
you humanize and it's easier to humanize basketball players because
they're not wearing help and.
Speaker 6 (35:00):
All these pads.
Speaker 1 (35:01):
But I think when you humanize the athlete and you
realize what we're doing and the amount of stress physical emotional,
mental stress, and the alternatives we have to nurture ourselves
based on the current landscape right now, it's just the
compassionate choice to allow players all reasonable means to care
for themselves.
Speaker 5 (35:19):
Right, And like what you've done in allowing other athletes
to step forward help everybody, because like you said, it
helps athletes take care of theirselves. The compassion for somebody, well,
it's the same thing for people who have cancer.
Speaker 2 (35:35):
Are the kids who have seizures.
Speaker 5 (35:36):
Or anybody who else is using it, like you said,
medicinally and to help with wellness.
Speaker 2 (35:42):
And I think you put it a lot.
Speaker 5 (35:44):
Of ways just we're talking to you right here, that
a lot of people don't look at it. A lot
of people just are from that you know DARE program
just say no reaf madeness era where oh it's you're
a druggie, you're a druga and taking that out of it,
like you said, giving people the right language to be
(36:04):
able to talk about.
Speaker 1 (36:06):
I think the language and permission are the two biggest
things because if people don't have permission, you can have
the language, but they ain't gonna use it right. And
if people have the language but they don't have permission,
they're going to hide.
Speaker 6 (36:17):
So it's like you got to have you got to
have both.
Speaker 1 (36:21):
And I feel like I'm in a position where I
can talk right and as I talk, people can pick
up the language of how I talked about.
Speaker 6 (36:27):
It ways that it related to them. But permission, right,
that's where the advocacy work comes.
Speaker 1 (36:32):
In because when the NFL stops testing or takes it
off the list, all the players that were too afraid
but they're in a lot of pain, but they are.
Speaker 6 (36:39):
Too afraid to try it.
Speaker 1 (36:41):
It opens the door all the people in the world,
right that know they need some help and whatever the
doctor said isn't working, but they don't want to break
the law. I think it's the first time in my
life where I have appreciated, truly appreciated the power of
the law.
Speaker 2 (36:57):
Right, it's real.
Speaker 6 (37:00):
I've been too DC three times.
Speaker 1 (37:02):
Right right before then, I was like, but this came up,
and I was like, because just being in the industry,
I've seen so many people and I heard so many stories,
right aside from my own, I heard so many stories,
and it's it's not even about me anymore. It's about
realizing that because of my story, I have the ability
to open doors and hopefully allow other people to have
(37:23):
access in relief.
Speaker 5 (37:24):
Right, Yeah, what can people do to advocate on their
own or you know, just try to get the thing
pushed legally to where it needs to be.
Speaker 1 (37:34):
Yeah, So I think what individuals can do is just
be honest. It's just right, and it's not like take
a flag and wave it around, you know, at your
kid's soccer game.
Speaker 6 (37:44):
It's not it's not that.
Speaker 1 (37:45):
But if you're if you're around a mom or someone
and they say, you know, I have a headache or
I can't sleep, you know, and you know that taking
a five milligrand gummy has helped you sleep?
Speaker 6 (37:55):
Right, just say something, you know, because it's not about hiding,
it's about it.
Speaker 1 (38:00):
You have something that might offer someone some relief, and
they might look at you like you're crazier say no.
But they hear that enough times, right, because sometimes it's
not the first time, and it doesn't feel good to
be the first one to put up the idea and
the person say that's crazy, But you say it once
they hear it from someone else. To hear it from
someone else, to hear it from someone else in their
mind is more open. So I think we can all
(38:20):
be advocates by just sharing our story, by being real.
Speaker 6 (38:25):
More specifically towards the NFL.
Speaker 1 (38:27):
You know, if a story comes out or you see something,
don't be like.
Speaker 6 (38:31):
Everyone else and put the same tag why was he smoked?
Speaker 2 (38:34):
Why? Right?
Speaker 1 (38:36):
I get it, But that doesn't help, you know, So
it's another version of just being honest, right, you know,
and if I was giving a pep talk is to like,
you know, I say, find yourself in history, you know,
in the future, let's say ten fifteen years down the road, right,
this is going to be a part of our everyday life,
you know. And do you want to be the person
(38:56):
that's like, damn, I missed the boat on that one,
or do you want to be the one that feels
good because you helped get it to that exactly exactly.
Speaker 2 (39:06):
Thank you, Thank you for inviting us out here.
Speaker 5 (39:08):
And I've got to come back out here at some
point because I got to check out some of the
some of the scenery out here. But thank you again, man,
one Drugs Podcast, Ricky Williams, Thank you so much.
Speaker 2 (39:21):
Man.
Speaker 6 (39:21):
I feel like I'm a survivor of the world Drugs.
Speaker 2 (39:23):
You are a survivor.
Speaker 5 (39:25):
You definitely you a general at this point, Like, yeah,
you definitely a general. You came out of it and
you pulled more people through than what they put you through.
So we appreciate thank you. Thank you.
Speaker 2 (39:42):
There it is Ricky Williams.
Speaker 5 (39:44):
Man in his own words, Uh yeah, it was great
to be there and just just hear his side of
the story. And how he really wanted his freedom.
Speaker 4 (39:56):
Peace by the way to you can you can peace.
You can feel his like genuine like at EA's.
Speaker 5 (40:03):
Yeah, yeah, to find something that kind of works for
you For me, I'm like, man, think about how many
other people weren't able.
Speaker 2 (40:11):
To find that? Yeah, So what talent, what ability? What genius?
Speaker 5 (40:16):
Are we missing in the world because we put this
stipulation on this one plane.
Speaker 3 (40:24):
Now, something that Ricky was talking about the kind of
triggers on to me was, you know, kind of this
thing of like medicinal versus recreational and what's accepted and
what's not, and you know, someone having anxiety dealing with
these things at the peak of their powers, really actually
trying to use something in a way that is medicinal.
Like all the arguments that people have, Oh, people just
want to go this is not what was happening here.
Speaker 4 (40:46):
This was a person trying to deal with this.
Speaker 3 (40:48):
And it's crazy how far we have come. I think
in that conversation, because if Ricky's saying that on his
own podcast or someone else's or what's going on about
his use on that, I think we look at the
today in a completely different light, like, oh, he has anxiety.
I think it's really good that he's talking about. Like
then it was you know, Mike Lupika and the Sports Report,
(41:09):
all these were like this guy is a bomb and
a bus. All he wants to do is party and
have a good time. And it's like, no, that's what
everyone else is kind of doing. Like this guy's actually
not like he's trying to see something and trying to
put his hand up and everyone's like, put your hand down.
Speaker 4 (41:21):
And it wasn't that long ago.
Speaker 5 (41:23):
And one of the things that he said too, that
I think kind of ties into what you were just saying,
is a lot of times people don't have the language
to talk about it, right, he said at that time,
he didn't have, you know, it was he couldn't put
it into words. He didn't know that, oh, okay, this
actually helps with that. He knows it's helping him. But
how are you going to tell somebody when the whole
(41:44):
world looks at it, Like you just said, you're just
trying to get hot, You're just trying to party.
Speaker 2 (41:49):
You're just a weed head. Yeah, you're you're a stoner.
Speaker 5 (41:52):
And now that we do have the language and capacity,
no matter which side of it, you're on. These are
kind conversations that can be had. These are conversations that
can be talked about even if you don't if you
want to keep your kids away from weed, or if
you want to be able to have it medicinally. Now
that we have these words like it helps with anxiety
(42:16):
and mental health. Yeah, it's all of these things that
I don't think we're even thought of saying in the
same sentence with marijuana.
Speaker 2 (42:27):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (42:27):
I mean, like you couldn't talk about being like, hey,
I don't think I should play now, you're not tough,
And it was like, oh, you can't. Ricky was always
he can't deal with the pressure, right, and it's like,
what does that even mean. I'm just supposed to be
dealing with the pressure.
Speaker 2 (42:41):
And at the same time, oh, you're dealing with paint.
Come take this right exact Yeah, yeah, come get this shot.
Speaker 3 (42:47):
And then the turk guy, like the health guy, will
be like, yeah, he can get you a few more
like yeah, I mean you hear those stories about the
pill passing and like the greenies, like the coffee they're
taking amphetamines.
Speaker 2 (42:56):
In the eighties.
Speaker 4 (42:57):
Yeah, it's unbelievable.
Speaker 3 (43:00):
Yeah, And so again that's why hearing these stories, particularly
someone that was like in the middle of this area
and where we've come now and hearing like how it's
different for athletes, and you know, you think even like
very recently Shikari Richardson she got suspended and even a
lot of the pushback on her it really was like, well,
this is her fault. She's wrong, like she should have known,
(43:21):
and like, you know what it's and if.
Speaker 2 (43:23):
She wasn't able to tell her side of.
Speaker 4 (43:25):
It right exactly, probably roll with that.
Speaker 2 (43:27):
And who knows if she would ever got back into
the Olympics.
Speaker 3 (43:30):
Yeah, and you saw the push I mean there was
I would I don't know what there was, but I
assume the vast majority of folks in our country were like,
this is not something that she should be knocked.
Speaker 4 (43:39):
Out of the Olympics. And I think there was a
lot more empathy on her for she was.
Speaker 5 (43:44):
Asked the question had been asked right after a race,
ties back into anxiety, mental health issues, those type of things,
and me, you know me, come on, man, she won
a race. She should get an extra metal like she won. Yeah,
(44:05):
give her an extra little add on, man, You know
how to give you the thing when you graduated, like
give her an extra little sash because.
Speaker 6 (44:13):
She is crazy's looking to that.
Speaker 2 (44:18):
Yeah, so special.
Speaker 5 (44:21):
Thank you to Ricky Williams. His family had his kid there.
Reminded me of being with my son.
Speaker 2 (44:27):
It was great. Yeah, that's that's the first episode.
Speaker 4 (44:31):
What we got up next another amazing athlete.
Speaker 3 (44:34):
But we're going to talk a little bit more about
actual physical pain and that's with Liz Carmose. She's a
veteran m M, A fighter, gorilla, total badass. She's going
to talk about some of her you know, in a
world of combat sport where you're constantly under injury and
strain and training. CBDs really helped her with her training
and keeping at the top of her game so long
(44:56):
in that sport, which you know, it's a pretty short
shelf life for a lot of folks.
Speaker 4 (44:59):
And so we'll this ball rolling.
Speaker 3 (45:00):
But what an awesome guest to kick off with Ricky Williams.
Awesome that you gotta do at Clay and amazing like
in his home, Like it's cool to get to get
that vibe and it's been awesome to travel around and
see these people where they're at.
Speaker 4 (45:11):
Again, special thank you to Ricky and awesome.
Speaker 2 (45:14):
That was a war on drugs.
Speaker 3 (45:17):
The War on Drugs is a production of Lava for
Good and Stand Together Music and association with Signal Company
Number one. Stand Together Music unites musicians and their teams
with proven change makers to co create solutions to some
of the most pressing issues in our country, including criminal justice,
for foreign addiction, recovery, mental health, education, free speech, and
(45:39):
ending the War on drugs. Learn more at Standogether Music
dot org. Be sure to follow Lava for Good on Instagram, Facebook,
and threads at Lava for Good. You can follow Clayton
English on Instagram, n X at Clayton English, and you
can follow Greg Laude on Instagram and on X at
Greg Latt. Executive producers Jason and Flahm, Jeff Kempler, Kevin Wardis,
(46:03):
and Collette Wintraub. Senior producers Kelsey Stallnecker, Zak Huffman and
Nick Stunf. Post production by ten ten, Audio talent booking
by Dan Resnik. Rez Entertainment Head of Marketing and Operations,
Jeff Cleiburn, Social Media director Ismadi Gaudarrama, Social media manager
Sarah Gibbons, and art director Andrew Nelson.
My own lived experience, was I prefer to the point
where I jeopardize my career. Is I prefer the cannabis
because it felt more like I was taking care of
myself than the pills, where I felt more like I
was masking stuff.
Speaker 2 (00:14):
Right, Wow, that's real.
Speaker 3 (00:17):
Lava for Good and Stand Together Music present The War
on Drugs Podcast Season two. This season, we're diving deeper
into the real stories behind the War on Drugs, its impact,
its failures, and the people offering a better path forward.
Today on the show, two time All American Texas Longhorn
and nineteen ninety eight Heisman Trophy winner, two thousand and
two NFL League Leader in rushing, All Pro and Pro
(00:39):
Bowl selectee for the Miami Dolphins, and longtime cannabis advocate
mister Ricky Williams.
Speaker 4 (00:50):
All Right, welcome to season two of The War on Drugs.
Speaker 5 (00:53):
Yes, yes, we're talking to real people. We get to
hear their real stories about how they've been impacted by
the world.
Speaker 2 (01:00):
And you know, we're fighting it. We're working the world.
Speaker 5 (01:04):
It's still waged, it's going, but we're still fighting a
good fight.
Speaker 3 (01:09):
We're gonna kick it off with one that I know
we were both really excited to talk to. Oh yeah,
Ricky Williams, former Texas running back. Yes, uh NFL running back.
I'm a big Ravens fan. He played with the Ravens
for a little bit, Saints, all these other teams, and
I remember like those interviews that he was doing because
there was so much pressure like on people don't know
(01:32):
the Saints. Essentially New Orleans Saints traded like their entire
draft to move up to get this guy.
Speaker 2 (01:37):
He was the only draft pick.
Speaker 4 (01:38):
Like it was there, literally their only draft traded, and
so everything was on like the team was I don't
even know.
Speaker 3 (01:42):
They won maybe like two games of a year before
they stunk, and this was like the savior and the
media was just all around him and it was not
used to have interviews like his helmet on Advisor and
like so you could and people that you know, it's
just like, oh look at look at crazy guy.
Speaker 2 (01:58):
He doesn't like people.
Speaker 4 (02:00):
Yeah, you look at those old interviews. They weren't that
from that long ago.
Speaker 3 (02:02):
Like the lack of knowledge like it actually helps sometimes
and know like we are moving in a good direction
kind of seeing like how people talked about him back then,
like he would not be talked about that way now right,
someone was saying, then there'd be a bunch of people
being like, obviously this is someone dealing with either is
you know, like we are the problem. You know, there
would be like something back and forth. Then it was
just like look at this loopy yeah.
Speaker 5 (02:23):
Yeah, And I don't know if this is where it
came from, but it definitely is the sentiment from the
sports journalists when you look at like Steven A. Smith,
stay off the weed, like and it's like, man, you
need some weed. Yeah, because you're yelling this early in
the morning, like you wake up this loud, Like my
(02:45):
son wakes up that loud, and it is terrible.
Speaker 3 (02:48):
Yeah, you know, it's it's crazy the world. You know,
it's twenty years ago about that he was. And you
know back then the NFL, you could be suspended for
cannabis for a long time.
Speaker 2 (03:00):
Super strict, yeah they.
Speaker 3 (03:01):
Yeah, and it was arbitrary the way that's testing now
that we know where you have a certain amount in
your system, and it was and we as we know,
like it's they try to almost do it as like
other drugs that are water soluble, like you know.
Speaker 4 (03:14):
Like cocaine or something like that.
Speaker 3 (03:15):
Yeah, in there, but you have cannabis in your system
or in your urine and test positive, you know, months after,
And so they're doing it on these arbitrary notions. I
know they've laxed it obviously. Moving forward, they've made changes
where they don't suspend anymore, they required you know, more violations.
Speaker 5 (03:30):
Or they reduce the amount that could be in your
system right exactly drastically, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 4 (03:35):
Or they increase the amount. Yeah yeah, they increase the amount.
Speaker 2 (03:38):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (03:38):
And really the reason that a lot of these things
have been changed is partly because of you know, his advocacy.
And I mean I look back in two thousand and
four and like I said, I just know the story
from through the media and how they painted it, and
it wasn't really social media like it is, so he
could never really come out and kind of tell his story.
(03:59):
You see them on one interview here, our interview here,
and you can just gather what you can from a
ten minute interview. But to actually be able to say, hey,
this is what happened, this is what I was doing,
this is why I was doing it, It's a whole
different thing. And I think a lot of people didn't
have that as an outlet, and I think that's the
difference now that people can get their story, you know, out.
Speaker 4 (04:21):
There with that Ricky Williams, here's the interview.
Speaker 2 (04:28):
What's going on, man? Thank you for having me. Man.
Speaker 5 (04:32):
It's beautiful out here, beautiful home, beautiful area. I don't
want to tell anybody where you are right now because
we want to keep it as peaceful as possible.
Speaker 2 (04:41):
We do not want people out here. Man, it's too peaceful. Man.
Speaker 5 (04:45):
Great to have you here. Heisman Trophy winner, pro Bowler
advocate for the people, Ricky Williams, Glad to have you here, Man,
good to be here. Yes, yes, I guess I got
to hear it from you because we hear your story,
especially somebody that was as prolific as you were in
(05:06):
the sport. We hear their narration, their story of what happened.
But can I get at least part of that from you?
From San Diego to Texas to New Orleans to where
we're at now. Yeah, you give us the the Ricky
Williams story in his own words.
Speaker 6 (05:26):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (05:27):
Yeah, So I grew up and I grew up in
San Diego, raised by a single mom. As a kid,
young kid, I had a dream that I would be
a professional athlete. But at the time, I thought it
would be a professional baseball player. Okay, big big Padres fan.
Played Little League, and then when I got to eighth grade,
I started playing football for the first time, and after
(05:49):
a couple of years, I was really good. So I
was really good at baseball football. Got to high school,
and I'm a big Bo Jackson fan, So my dream was.
Speaker 6 (05:58):
To play baseball and Footballah.
Speaker 1 (06:00):
I got drafted by the Phillies, got a chance to
play some baseball, and I got a scholarship to go
to the University of Texas to play football. At the time,
I thought I would just play college football and then
when I was done, I would go be a professional
baseball player. But I had so much success on the
football field and not enough success on the baseball diamond
that it kind of got flipped and I gave up baseball.
Speaker 6 (06:19):
And I stuck with football.
Speaker 1 (06:22):
Then I went to the got drafted the big all
the trade from the Saints and Mike dickerd traded everything
and the next year's first round fish everybody you're drafted. Yeah,
I was only a couple of free agents, but I
was the.
Speaker 6 (06:37):
Only draft pick. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (06:39):
And then I had had three so so years in
New Orleans, had a lot of injuries. Then I got
traded in Miami, and that first year in Miami really
took off, led the NFL and Russian Pro Bowl, All Pro,
all that good stuff. And then I came back for
my second year in Miami, and to me, it kind
of started before then. But really the story started that
(07:00):
second year, my second year in Miami, because what occurred
in the first year of Miami is I failed a
drug test and I was put in the NFL's drug program.
Speaker 5 (07:09):
But let me, I'm sorry not to cut you off,
but you failed to drug test after putting up ridiculous numbers.
Speaker 1 (07:16):
It was right before I put up the right before,
right before I okay, okay, the timing of it was
was interesting. So now that's the kind of the football
story up to a certain point. Now I'm going to
tell more of the cannabis side of the store. So,
growing up, my stepdad was a rosta and so and
I was a huge, huge Bob Marley fan. So my
(07:36):
first my first relationship with cannabis was not as a consumer.
Speaker 6 (07:41):
It was just appreciating two.
Speaker 1 (07:43):
Wise men who I respected who used cannabis.
Speaker 6 (07:49):
First book I ever read front to back.
Speaker 1 (07:51):
Was Bob Martley's biography, so I was like in it.
But because I was a professional, I mean because I
wanted to be a professional athlete and I was AH
and I grew up in the eighties.
Speaker 6 (08:02):
Just say no, they didn't. They didn't mix. They didn't
mix in my in my head. And also I grew
up in San Diego, so it was it was all around.
It was all around.
Speaker 1 (08:13):
And I had a couple of friends that smoke, So
I probably smoked three or four times before I left
high school.
Speaker 6 (08:19):
That's it.
Speaker 1 (08:20):
I get to college and I started noticing that sometimes
on Fridays the guys would go to my to sean
the other running back storm room and shoot dice and
pass a blown around. And so I was just trying
to be cool with the upperclassmates. I you know, mix
it up with them. But again, maybe ten times. And
(08:40):
then I get to my senior year, my senior year
in college, and I came back from my senior year
because I wanted to win the Heisman Trophy.
Speaker 6 (08:48):
And the season started off kind of bumpy, you know.
Speaker 1 (08:51):
I had a couple of rough games, broke up with
my girl, and I just was in a really bad place,
like why did I come back?
Speaker 2 (08:57):
You know?
Speaker 6 (08:57):
I was like, lo.
Speaker 1 (08:59):
My roommate was a smoker, so he was like, you
just need to chill, and he slid his bond over
to me. I remember, I took a hit, coughed a little bit,
and I went upstairs. I was laying on the laying
on the bed, looking up and I noticed it was
the first time in weeks that I wasn't obsessing about
all the things that were going wrong. And then that
that that moment of clarity, I started to look to
(09:20):
the future and think about things getting better. That was
just one night, go to sleep, wake up the next morning,
and go on with my with my week.
Speaker 6 (09:27):
The next two weeks of the season, I had back
to back.
Speaker 1 (09:29):
Three hundred yard games, rushing three hundred yard games back
to back, and after that, I was like, Okay, there's
something there's something here, right, there's something here.
Speaker 6 (09:38):
I'm not I'm not all in yet, but I can't.
Speaker 1 (09:40):
Say that this is a bad thing because it just
helped me like get out of a phone right and
kind of change change to my season around. So like
when the Heisman Trophy, fast forward, go through a bunch
of the draft stuff, and during the draft prep, I
moved back to San Diego and had a little money,
you know, so I bought my first ounce.
Speaker 6 (10:01):
I remember about my first out.
Speaker 2 (10:05):
And this is this is you you you're this is.
Speaker 6 (10:08):
Right after my senior before the draft.
Speaker 2 (10:11):
So it's never like.
Speaker 5 (10:11):
You was just a dude just smoking before every game
or it.
Speaker 1 (10:16):
Was never it was never that, but but it was
like a relationship was developing, you know, a relationship was developing.
So I had a little free time. I was training
and I just smoke a little bit to relax. But
I didn't have a real relationship at this point. I
just was messing around and I had some free free time.
I heard somebody say cannabis is synonymous with freedom, you know,
(10:37):
and I think because of the war on drugs. I
don't think it always has to be this way, but
I think because of the past and the war on drugs,
it kind of is right. We're either, you know, some
because some of my white friends, right, they had enough
money that if they got a little they got in
a little bit of trouble, nothing happened. So of us
if we got you know, we got put over and
we got a roach in the car.
Speaker 6 (10:57):
We're in the system.
Speaker 1 (10:58):
So so since then I got a little money, I
got help. I can figure out if I get caught
with this little bit, so I had a little bit
of freedom. Then I get drafted to New Orleans and
I kind of put it aside because now I got
to focus on football. So go through my rookie year,
and my rookie year is a disaster. I mean just
mainly because of injuries. I just was hurt the whole year.
(11:18):
Second year, I trained really hard. I come back killing
it in week ten and I break my ankle.
Speaker 6 (11:25):
Literally.
Speaker 1 (11:26):
I broke my ankle on my thousandth yard. If you
look in the stats, you see I got a thousand
yards my second year in New Orleans just because it
was my ankle.
Speaker 6 (11:34):
Snap. And something in me snapped at that moment because.
Speaker 1 (11:38):
I realized I put all, like all my heart and
so into this game and it can just be taken away.
Speaker 6 (11:43):
Literally like that.
Speaker 1 (11:44):
Yeah, And so I thought, okay, I need to start
working on a plan. B you know what am I
going to do other than football? Because I can't trust
this and I wasn't playing and I was hurt. That's
when I really started smoking, you know, And part of
it was you know, my body was healing, but most
of it was trying to get my mind right because
(12:06):
you know, as an adult, all my identity had been
put in to being a football player, and I wasn't
so attached to that anymore because I couldn't trust it,
and so I needed something to like over clear my
mind and try to figure things out. And that's when
I noticed myself smoking more so. About a year later,
I get traded to Miami, and I was in a
sweet spot right. It was kind of like back to
(12:28):
when I was in college where I was working on
putting the pass behind me. I had a new start
in Miami, and I was just thinking of like envisioning
what the season is going to be like.
Speaker 6 (12:38):
So it's right.
Speaker 1 (12:39):
Before it's right before the season starts, and I come
to work and there's a little like thing on my.
Speaker 6 (12:44):
Locker that says you're being tested today.
Speaker 1 (12:47):
I was like what Because NFL back then, NFL tested
only one time a year, but they had a big window,
big window when they can test, but it was only
one test when I was in New Orleans. That one
test was in training camp, and I thought when I
got to Miami that the test would be in training camp,
but it wasn't it was in the off season, so
that's when they got me. But again a couple of
(13:10):
times a week. But I wasn't like blowing before games
or anything. So I got I get popped, and then
I'm like, okay, well they got me, so I'll just
stop smoking. That That was my attitude that at that
point it's nothing but the first test. They just put
you in the program. And so when you're not in
the program, that test one annual test. When you are
(13:33):
in the program nine times a month, you get tested
nine times a month, and if you pop, then you
get a fine, and then if you pop again you
get the you get four.
Speaker 6 (13:41):
Game suspension, and then you get a year suspension.
Speaker 1 (13:44):
So I was I was just on the map where
I was getting tested nine times a month, and I
was like, it's fine, and they make you talk.
Speaker 6 (13:50):
To the therapist once a week.
Speaker 1 (13:52):
So I was like, you know, I can't hurt to
have someone to talk to, and I don't you know,
I'm good not smoking.
Speaker 6 (13:59):
About four game in the season, I was like, I
can't do this.
Speaker 1 (14:01):
If I smoking, you are to put your body on
the line. After I started smoking, and then I tried
to stop. I was like, I ain't going back to
the farm. I was like, I'm not going back to
that life. So then it was like, okay, how do
I keep smoking and pass the tests?
Speaker 2 (14:18):
You know?
Speaker 6 (14:19):
And then it took me.
Speaker 1 (14:19):
A little while to figure it out, but I figured
out how to how to make it through with passing
the test. Had a little system, so I make it in.
The drug program is two years. You got to make
it through two seasons and then you're out of the program. Okay,
So found my little system. Made it through the first year,
good Pro Bowl, all that good stuff. You know, nobody knows, right,
(14:39):
nobody knows, but I'm good that next year I come
back again. That's back to where we were. My second
year in Miami, that's when everything kind of changed. So
so my second year in Miami, I was thinking it's
time for me to break the two thousand yeard rushing
mark and like put my name on a map. I
was like, this is it, you know, kind of all
my eggs back in the basket.
Speaker 6 (15:00):
I said, this is it. And it just didn't work
out that way.
Speaker 1 (15:03):
The Dolphins didn't get a quarterback, and they just kept
giving me the ball, giving me the ball, giving me
the ball and my body was beat up. And I
remember we played the Eagles on it was Monday night.
Speaker 6 (15:14):
I played the Eagles.
Speaker 1 (15:16):
And we lost that game and we were at a
playoff contention, and I was hurt, and I remember I
smoked that night. I went to bed and the dude
was coming to drug test me at six in the morning,
So set my alarm.
Speaker 6 (15:28):
I had my little system. I drink my little.
Speaker 1 (15:29):
Drink, so my urine clear for five hours. Okay, so
I wake up early.
Speaker 6 (15:34):
I was that late.
Speaker 1 (15:35):
I woke up early, drank my drink, and then I
fell asleep because part of the system is you got
to drink, to drink twice and then you're good. But
I fell asleep and I woke up when he knocked
on the door, and I was like, damn.
Speaker 6 (15:46):
I was like, I'll probably be fine. Pissed.
Speaker 1 (15:49):
Got a letter of the next week that I fell
a drug test. So now it's the second drug the
second failed test. And the big thing about the second
failed test is they find you. And the biggest thing
about the fine as they take it out of your check,
which means the team has to know that you failed
a drug test.
Speaker 5 (16:05):
Okay, Okay, So this is the NFL. It's not even
the team.
Speaker 1 (16:08):
It's not even the team. So the idea some players
don't care, some players do. I did at the moment,
so nobody knew I was in the drug program.
Speaker 6 (16:17):
Nobody.
Speaker 1 (16:18):
The NFL does a decent job of keeping it confidential,
so the team didn't know. But after that second test,
the public doesn't know, but the team knows, you know.
And it feels silly to say it now. But in
that time, like the team knowing that I smoked, it
was like, you can relate to this. It was like
they got something on me. Now you know they got something.
Speaker 2 (16:40):
This is going to be what they point.
Speaker 1 (16:42):
To exactly exactly when I go for a renegotiation to
get paid, right, they got they got something on me.
So I was like okay, So I kind of pushed
through that. And then something happened where it leaked to
the public that I failed a drug test, and that
was something. Again, it feels silly saying it now.
Speaker 6 (16:58):
That's something.
Speaker 1 (16:59):
I don't think I was ready four right, it's one
thing the team knows and they're going to keep it
on the low. But now the public knows, you know,
and I not that my image was one hundred percent pure.
But at least back in two thousand and four, I
felt like, you know, it would tarnish my image.
Speaker 5 (17:18):
I mean, I think most athletes at that point would
think that men four.
Speaker 1 (17:25):
So I was kind of bent out of shape. And
at the same time, I was thinking, like, this is
a lot. You know, this is a lot.
Speaker 2 (17:31):
And so.
Speaker 1 (17:33):
When I fell another drug test and it was going
to be a four game suspension, I just said I'm out.
I said I'm good. I said it's time for me
to do something else. Anyway, I think the significant thing
about that moment is before then I didn't consider cannabis
is being medicinal, right, there was, at least in the
football world, there was nobody having that conversation, nobody talking
(17:54):
about it like that. So I thought I just was
smoking because that's what we do. But when I had
to stop while doing in the football season, I realized,
I'm not doing this just for fun. I'm doing this
because it helps, right. It helps my body, it helps
my mind. It helped me feel good about getting up
in the morning and doing this and doing this again.
Speaker 2 (18:12):
Right.
Speaker 1 (18:13):
And also I noticed that when I started smoking more
that I stopped taking the pills that they gave me
less and pills that they were giving me. They're giving
me Pax for my social anxiety, and they were giving
me intocend.
Speaker 6 (18:27):
It's an insight, like an anti inflammatory.
Speaker 1 (18:29):
And the guys would joke, It's like it's funny because
if you didn't take the anti inflammatory the night before,
your body was hurting at practice the next day. So
the guys would joke, you know, there's gonna be a
bad day if they forgot to take their pills. And
I started thinking about it. In order for us to
feel good to practice, we have to take pills. And
when I noticed I started smoking, I didn't have to
(18:51):
take as many pills to practice. And when I stopped
smoking because I felt drug test, I noticed I was
taking a lot more pills and I just didn't feel
good to me.
Speaker 6 (19:00):
So just the side effects.
Speaker 1 (19:01):
And again I wasn't reading anything, and there was no
one that was talking to me about it, so I
didn't have the language. But my own lived experience was
I prefer to the point where I jeopardize my career.
Is I prefer the cannabis because it felt more like
I was taking care of myself than the pills, where
felt more like I was masking stuff.
Speaker 2 (19:21):
Right, Wow, that's real.
Speaker 1 (19:27):
This is what I've realized about pharmaceuticals. It's like so
much about the pills that the doctor was giving me.
It was like to cover stuff up, to hide it,
to pretend like it wasn't there.
Speaker 6 (19:38):
Like the pills make it better.
Speaker 1 (19:40):
But whether it was the anxiety or the underlying cause
of the pain, the pills didn't make it better. It
just put me in a position where I was pushing
myself beyond where it was good for me. And I
noticed with cannabis it was it was making me feel better,
but from a different perspective of being more aware of
what hurts, where I feel the pain, so that I
can go to treatment, so that I can stretch, so
(20:01):
that I can do something about it, rather than just
popping a pill and going about my business.
Speaker 5 (20:06):
Yeah, well you popped the pill and then well everything hurts.
But when you a little more tuned in, you're like, oh,
wait a minute, is this part of my knee that's yeah, okay,
And it.
Speaker 1 (20:17):
Might seem simple, but true story, true story. My my
second year in Miami, I had this little, this little strain.
Speaker 6 (20:26):
Right behind my calf muscle and go to.
Speaker 1 (20:29):
The doctors and I'll try to get him to explain
it to them, and they didn't know what I was
talking about. And so finally I said screw it. And
we had like the medical books in the training room,
so I just got one of the books and I
like looked at that part of my body and I
looked really closely, and I saw there's this little tiny muscle,
you know, and I said, it's this is called the
(20:50):
papladio muscle. I said, it's that muscle right there. And
once I showed the doctor what the muscle, exactly what
muscle it was, they knew how to treat it and
it got better that quick.
Speaker 6 (20:58):
So I just found it's a different mindset.
Speaker 1 (21:02):
And because I think the mindset of most athletes, hopefully
it's changing coming in is it's kind of like they
can use my body anyway they want, and I have
to follow all their rules right, And to me, I
just couldn't make that work. So I think it's things
are changing and people in the leagues are allowing the
players to consume cannabis. It is giving the players more
(21:25):
tools to be able to better take care of themselves,
and I think it helps just in the mindset of
an athlete. There's something that it does that allows us
to feel more free and not like we're boxed in
to do the work that they want us to do
and we can't even take care of ourselves.
Speaker 5 (21:41):
As you're saying this, when you're saying you stepped away
from it, I'm allowed a lot more insight, you know.
I think people can now, Like just you saying that,
that's like, oh wait a minute, Like, yeah, that was
definitely decision for yourself.
Speaker 6 (21:54):
Tell you, I can feel it.
Speaker 1 (21:55):
I can feel like if I come back and try
to do this, something's gonna I'm gonna get hurt because
my heart's not in it.
Speaker 6 (22:00):
I'm somewhere else.
Speaker 1 (22:01):
I had this taste of the things that I could
be experiencing, and again I started doing the math, and
I said, my life is short, and if I don't
have take this time to get to know myself and
live a little bit now, I might never have the
opportunity to. And I feel like I accomplished everything I
wanted to and needed to with football, so I felt
good about taking that next step.
Speaker 6 (22:21):
I was free.
Speaker 1 (22:23):
It was scary to make that call, but as soon
as I hung up the phone, like the cannabis stuff aside.
To me, I think cannabis was my ticket out. It
gave me a way to get out. It truly did.
Speaker 6 (22:33):
It opened my mind to even imagine that I could
be something other than a football player.
Speaker 1 (22:38):
I think a lot of guys the reason they stayed
playing football so long is they can't imagine themselves doing
anything else that would feel as good as football. And
I started to see, I'm not gonna be able to
do this for the rest of my life. I need
to find something else I love. And when I started traveling.
Speaker 6 (22:54):
I was like, I love I love this experience.
Speaker 1 (22:56):
Of being able to go anywhere in the world and
have an experience and be myself. And then I was
traveling and I met this guy who gave me a
book on alternative healing, and I started flipping through it,
and I noticed there was a whole chapter on cannabis,
and it was the first time that I had seen
cannabis even mentioned alongside of something positive. So, of course,
(23:19):
but my experience, I was all in this book and
I started reading everything I could, and I started to
realize there was a whole nother side of the story
that we'd never been exposed to, and then I became
passionate about trying to get to the bottom of that.
Speaker 2 (23:32):
Right.
Speaker 5 (23:32):
So, because you said you went to school for you've
been to several.
Speaker 6 (23:36):
Yeah, I've been a bunch of school.
Speaker 2 (23:39):
When was it?
Speaker 5 (23:40):
Like, Yo, this is the because they call it alternative medicine,
but I don't like to call it that because that
tries to make it sound like it's crazy.
Speaker 6 (23:48):
I actually came wait before this, exactly.
Speaker 1 (23:51):
Yeah, this is the part of the conversation that I
don't think anybody talks about enough, you know, and part
of it is read we don't have the language. It's
like the dark ages of cannabis. When it was made illegal,
we lost we lost the language, we lost the way.
Speaker 6 (24:06):
People used to talk about it.
Speaker 1 (24:07):
But if you go back to the late eighteen hundred,
doctors knew how to talk about cannabis, and they had
they had some clarity about all the things that could
help with But I feel like we've lost we'd lost
our ability to how to talk about it. And I
think the biggest the biggest motivation for my advocacy is
to empower people with the language and the permission to
(24:28):
share their actual experience about it. Because we're talking about
something that happened in two thousand and four, two thousand
and five. It took ten years from there before I
really felt confident enough to be an advocate right. And
up until that point, my advocacy was.
Speaker 6 (24:43):
Not lying about it, right, not lying.
Speaker 1 (24:46):
Too much about right. That was my advocacy is somewhat
telling the truth. And I remember when I came up here,
right after I retired, I was sitting interviewing for sixty
minutes with Mike Wallace, and Mike Wallace asked me, point, Blake,
you know NFL tested you right now.
Speaker 6 (25:01):
Would you pass the drug test? And I remember like.
Speaker 1 (25:04):
Sitting there and like being nervous because all these people
are watching, you know, And I was like, I have
an opportunity to lie or to tell the truth, you know,
And somehow and I told the truth right, And to me,
that was the That was the first, my first form
of true advocacy. But it wasn't until ten years later
(25:24):
where I was at. I was living in Austin because
I went back to school after I retired, and a
teammate of mine, Kyle Turley.
Speaker 6 (25:31):
Big big time advocate, he's all in.
Speaker 1 (25:33):
He called me up and he said, hey, there's a
cannabis conference at the convention Center in Phoenix, won't you
come out and tell your story? And I was in
Austin and I was getting a lot of flak for
my reputation, so I was like, I'm good.
Speaker 6 (25:46):
I said, I'm good, and I hung up.
Speaker 1 (25:48):
The phone and I sat there and I thought about it,
and I was like, first, I was like.
Speaker 6 (25:52):
There's a cannabis convention at a convention center.
Speaker 2 (25:55):
I was like whoa.
Speaker 1 (25:56):
I was like okay, and then I thought, you know,
fuck it. Everybody knows I smoke anyway. So I called
them back up and I was like, I'll do it.
That's when that real advocacy started. I remember I went
to Phoenix and I was sitting on this stage is
probably like one hundred.
Speaker 6 (26:10):
And fifty people in the audience.
Speaker 1 (26:12):
And it was the first time that I told my
story that I actually shared how it made me feel
and how I used it, and it was like it
was cathartic. It was healing, you know, because it was
something that I kept inside that I didn't talk about,
and to share with people right powerful, most powerful though
(26:32):
it was afterwards, twenty twenty thirty people came up to
me afterwards and basically told me I was their hero.
And because I hadn't put myself out there, I didn't
have exposure to the way that my.
Speaker 6 (26:42):
Story touched a lot of people.
Speaker 1 (26:44):
Because the way it unfolded for me, I kind of
felt like a coward, you know. But to see that
because I, you know, tried, I made an effort that
it really inspired other people. When their parents or their
coaches were giving them a hard time about smoking, they
could point to me and say, look, you know, he doing.
Speaker 6 (27:03):
It, and look at him. I was like, WHOA. And
I remember something my mom always says. He says, go
where you're celebrated, not where you're tolerated.
Speaker 1 (27:12):
And I felt like in that cannabis convention, right for
the first time since I failed a test.
Speaker 6 (27:17):
That I was actually being celebrated, you know, without.
Speaker 1 (27:21):
Without the astro, you know, and people would like the
stories would even if someone wrote a positive story about me,
right at the bottom, they would say he failed multiple
drug tests, right, And I was like, right, like, we
really need to throw that in everything.
Speaker 2 (27:34):
You don't.
Speaker 1 (27:36):
It's going to be funny to see how it evolves
because most of us, most of us adults now have
come out of a place where the prohibition, where it
was always something different or you had to hide it.
But I imagine, you know, maybe even my youngest kid
or pretty soon after, it's not going to have that
(27:57):
stigma so much that they have to deal with, so
they to have more of a clean slate. And I
think what they come up with and how they use
it is gonna be even We're gonna see it keep
growing and evolve.
Speaker 5 (28:07):
Right, and then it might not even be as abusive
as I would say how I used it, you know,
because now you don't have to run off somewhere, you
don't have to go to one person's basement, and you
don't have to put a bunch of spray on and
eye drops and try.
Speaker 2 (28:22):
To whole thing.
Speaker 5 (28:23):
Like now you feel like now you're like, okay, I
just needed two quick hits, but now it's this whole process.
So you're like, I gotta finish it. Yeah, you know,
I can't bring it back home like I got so yeah.
So that's that's insightful, man, because so for me, I
do comedy and I did Last Common Standing and I
(28:46):
had some weed jokes in there, and I remember there
was people like, man, you're not gonna be able to
talk about weed. It's gonna be on NBC, and I'm like,
at this point, it's legal in California. It's like I'm
talking about something that's happening. And I wound up winning
the show. But it was one of those things where
it's like, no, I knew what I was talking about.
(29:07):
I just had to you know, you just had to
push through and believe you.
Speaker 6 (29:11):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (29:11):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 5 (29:12):
So I mean I definitely looked at you on the
sports side and I'm like, no, like, there's so many
people that tried to put that on. Oh, well you're
gonna not You're not gonna have drive, You're not gonna
have ambition, You're not gonna you know.
Speaker 2 (29:26):
What I'm not.
Speaker 5 (29:26):
Able to do is deal with all y'all putting stuff
on me.
Speaker 2 (29:31):
But I'm able to deal with it when I have
a look.
Speaker 1 (29:33):
I'm telling you, I had a conversation today and the
dude talking to me, he's like, yeah, it's like I smoke.
Speaker 6 (29:37):
To treat my adhd.
Speaker 1 (29:39):
I was like, no, no, no, I was like, you spoke
to deal with the people that are trying to like
label you the way you are. Yeah, So that's that's
actually And then we got to it. That's the deeper
reason why I was saying I can't do this if
I spoken, you know, it's just being around. This is
(29:59):
real talk, okay, because part of the part of the
drug conversation is about people using substances or whatever to
escape their problems. Okay, and that's real. But you don't
need cannabis to do that. There's a lot there's a
lot you can watch TV, there's a lot of ways.
There's a lot of ways.
Speaker 6 (30:15):
To do that.
Speaker 1 (30:16):
And when I launched my brand Heisman, our tagline is
sparked Greatness because that's my background and that's my story,
and my thing is cannabis helps us recover, Okay, but
if you ain't doing shit, you don't have nothing to
recover from, right, So it has to be it has
to be a balance of actually doing something right, because
even the creativity has to be the balance of doing
(30:37):
something right and the need to like come back afterwards
and reflect and make the connection so that you can
go back and do it again right. And and so
I realized that football, I was good at it, but
I had like it wasn't really what I was supposed
to be doing. In order to keep myself doing what
I wasn't supposed to be doing.
Speaker 6 (30:56):
I had to smoke, you know.
Speaker 1 (30:59):
And and and I think that's part of the definition
of medicine because sometimes in life we have to do
things that we don't really want to do, but we
have to learn to take care of ourselves while we're
doing it. But also the recognition of when it's time
to move on and do something else.
Speaker 5 (31:16):
I wanted to ask you, what's your relationship with the NFL.
Are you advocating with them or is it a relationship
with them now?
Speaker 1 (31:25):
I've had several conversations with the NFL, mainly on the
Players Association side, because when I was going through my appeals,
when I fell drug tests, the part of an appeal
process is they send someone from the Players Association to
support you. But at the time, cannabis was still so
stigmatized it wasn't really much support, you know. They just
(31:46):
kind of sat off in the corner, like didn't say
anything anything to fit me. And so the conversations I've
had with them is really getting them to change their
attitude about cannabis, to say, this is not about substance.
Speaker 6 (31:57):
Abuse, this is about wellness, you know.
Speaker 1 (32:01):
And I've been talking to him about that over and
over again, and finally they started to listen and in
the last collective parting agreement, they said, we're taking cannabis
off the table as a negotiating piece for substances of
abuse and we're talking about.
Speaker 6 (32:15):
It as wellness.
Speaker 1 (32:16):
And that's what started to get the NFL to lighten,
so they don't suspend players anymore for filling cannabis tests.
They've raised the amount of THC metabolites in the urine
to like three hundred and fifty nanograms per milli leader
And that doesn't make sense, that doesn't mean anything to anyone,
but it's basically, you have to have a huge cannabis
(32:36):
problem in order for the NFL to get on the
NFL's radar, where when I was, you just had to
have a little system.
Speaker 5 (32:45):
Where can people or how can people do what you're doing,
or how can they support what you're doing and advocate
for the wellness side of the cannabis industry.
Speaker 1 (32:56):
Yeah, So what we've seen in the past decade is
the NFL really changing their stance about head injuries, for example.
So there's been a huge shift where because of the fans,
really because of the fans that the NFL is having
to take player safety more seriously.
Speaker 6 (33:14):
And they they've done it.
Speaker 1 (33:15):
And I think when cannabis gets lumped into that conversation
about player safety and player wellness, I think that's when
the NFL really starts to listen. When on social media,
you know, they're seeing people say it's a travesty that
these guys aren't allowed to take care of themselves with
natural through natural means, and they're forced to take pharmaceuticals.
And I already know that's what's been opening the NFL's
(33:38):
minds those that kind of talk. And I think the
more fans right become more player centric and saying, you know,
for what Riggy Williams, you know, puts his body on
the line to do all those things, he should definitely
be allowed to consume cannabis to take compared to the alternatives.
Speaker 5 (34:00):
Yeah, And I mean in the grand scheme of things,
it would benefit them. You're getting you're getting the whole person,
or at least you know them, closer to one hundred
percent than just trying to keep putting the band aid
on whatever's actually wrong.
Speaker 1 (34:16):
But also the alternative because and this is this is
when I talk to the NBA players right. This is
the argument that they used in the bubble helped. But
the argument that NBA players used was, you know, after
after a game and they have a specific story.
Speaker 6 (34:32):
I think they must have all got a line.
Speaker 1 (34:34):
They said, those specific games that we have back to backs,
They said, after a game are adrenaline is so hyped up?
You know that we don't have the ability to come down,
so a lot of us are drinking and doing other things. Right,
imagine if we could smoke that allow us to come
down and get ready to do it the next day. Right,
that's the car. They all say the same thing, and
they use the back to backs. But I think when
(34:56):
you humanize and it's easier to humanize basketball players because
they're not wearing help and.
Speaker 6 (35:00):
All these pads.
Speaker 1 (35:01):
But I think when you humanize the athlete and you
realize what we're doing and the amount of stress physical emotional,
mental stress, and the alternatives we have to nurture ourselves
based on the current landscape right now, it's just the
compassionate choice to allow players all reasonable means to care
for themselves.
Speaker 5 (35:19):
Right, And like what you've done in allowing other athletes
to step forward help everybody, because like you said, it
helps athletes take care of theirselves. The compassion for somebody, well,
it's the same thing for people who have cancer.
Speaker 2 (35:35):
Are the kids who have seizures.
Speaker 5 (35:36):
Or anybody who else is using it, like you said,
medicinally and to help with wellness.
Speaker 2 (35:42):
And I think you put it a lot.
Speaker 5 (35:44):
Of ways just we're talking to you right here, that
a lot of people don't look at it. A lot
of people just are from that you know DARE program
just say no reaf madeness era where oh it's you're
a druggie, you're a druga and taking that out of it,
like you said, giving people the right language to be
(36:04):
able to talk about.
Speaker 1 (36:06):
I think the language and permission are the two biggest
things because if people don't have permission, you can have
the language, but they ain't gonna use it right. And
if people have the language but they don't have permission,
they're going to hide.
Speaker 6 (36:17):
So it's like you got to have you got to
have both.
Speaker 1 (36:21):
And I feel like I'm in a position where I
can talk right and as I talk, people can pick
up the language of how I talked about.
Speaker 6 (36:27):
It ways that it related to them. But permission, right,
that's where the advocacy work comes.
Speaker 1 (36:32):
In because when the NFL stops testing or takes it
off the list, all the players that were too afraid
but they're in a lot of pain, but they are.
Speaker 6 (36:39):
Too afraid to try it.
Speaker 1 (36:41):
It opens the door all the people in the world,
right that know they need some help and whatever the
doctor said isn't working, but they don't want to break
the law. I think it's the first time in my
life where I have appreciated, truly appreciated the power of
the law.
Speaker 2 (36:57):
Right, it's real.
Speaker 6 (37:00):
I've been too DC three times.
Speaker 1 (37:02):
Right right before then, I was like, but this came up,
and I was like, because just being in the industry,
I've seen so many people and I heard so many stories,
right aside from my own, I heard so many stories,
and it's it's not even about me anymore. It's about
realizing that because of my story, I have the ability
to open doors and hopefully allow other people to have
(37:23):
access in relief.
Speaker 5 (37:24):
Right, Yeah, what can people do to advocate on their
own or you know, just try to get the thing
pushed legally to where it needs to be.
Speaker 1 (37:34):
Yeah, So I think what individuals can do is just
be honest. It's just right, and it's not like take
a flag and wave it around, you know, at your
kid's soccer game.
Speaker 6 (37:44):
It's not it's not that.
Speaker 1 (37:45):
But if you're if you're around a mom or someone
and they say, you know, I have a headache or
I can't sleep, you know, and you know that taking
a five milligrand gummy has helped you sleep?
Speaker 6 (37:55):
Right, just say something, you know, because it's not about hiding,
it's about it.
Speaker 1 (38:00):
You have something that might offer someone some relief, and
they might look at you like you're crazier say no.
But they hear that enough times, right, because sometimes it's
not the first time, and it doesn't feel good to
be the first one to put up the idea and
the person say that's crazy, But you say it once
they hear it from someone else. To hear it from
someone else, to hear it from someone else in their
mind is more open. So I think we can all
(38:20):
be advocates by just sharing our story, by being real.
Speaker 6 (38:25):
More specifically towards the NFL.
Speaker 1 (38:27):
You know, if a story comes out or you see something,
don't be like.
Speaker 6 (38:31):
Everyone else and put the same tag why was he smoked?
Speaker 2 (38:34):
Why? Right?
Speaker 1 (38:36):
I get it, But that doesn't help, you know, So
it's another version of just being honest, right, you know,
and if I was giving a pep talk is to like,
you know, I say, find yourself in history, you know,
in the future, let's say ten fifteen years down the road, right,
this is going to be a part of our everyday life,
you know. And do you want to be the person
(38:56):
that's like, damn, I missed the boat on that one,
or do you want to be the one that feels
good because you helped get it to that exactly exactly.
Speaker 2 (39:06):
Thank you, Thank you for inviting us out here.
Speaker 5 (39:08):
And I've got to come back out here at some
point because I got to check out some of the
some of the scenery out here. But thank you again, man,
one Drugs Podcast, Ricky Williams, Thank you so much.
Speaker 2 (39:21):
Man.
Speaker 6 (39:21):
I feel like I'm a survivor of the world Drugs.
Speaker 2 (39:23):
You are a survivor.
Speaker 5 (39:25):
You definitely you a general at this point, Like, yeah,
you definitely a general. You came out of it and
you pulled more people through than what they put you through.
So we appreciate thank you. Thank you.
Speaker 2 (39:42):
There it is Ricky Williams.
Speaker 5 (39:44):
Man in his own words, Uh yeah, it was great
to be there and just just hear his side of
the story. And how he really wanted his freedom.
Speaker 4 (39:56):
Peace by the way to you can you can peace.
You can feel his like genuine like at EA's.
Speaker 5 (40:03):
Yeah, yeah, to find something that kind of works for
you For me, I'm like, man, think about how many
other people weren't able.
Speaker 2 (40:11):
To find that? Yeah, So what talent, what ability? What genius?
Speaker 5 (40:16):
Are we missing in the world because we put this
stipulation on this one plane.
Speaker 3 (40:24):
Now, something that Ricky was talking about the kind of
triggers on to me was, you know, kind of this
thing of like medicinal versus recreational and what's accepted and
what's not, and you know, someone having anxiety dealing with
these things at the peak of their powers, really actually
trying to use something in a way that is medicinal.
Like all the arguments that people have, Oh, people just
want to go this is not what was happening here.
Speaker 4 (40:46):
This was a person trying to deal with this.
Speaker 3 (40:48):
And it's crazy how far we have come. I think
in that conversation, because if Ricky's saying that on his
own podcast or someone else's or what's going on about
his use on that, I think we look at the
today in a completely different light, like, oh, he has anxiety.
I think it's really good that he's talking about. Like
then it was you know, Mike Lupika and the Sports Report,
(41:09):
all these were like this guy is a bomb and
a bus. All he wants to do is party and
have a good time. And it's like, no, that's what
everyone else is kind of doing. Like this guy's actually
not like he's trying to see something and trying to
put his hand up and everyone's like, put your hand down.
Speaker 4 (41:21):
And it wasn't that long ago.
Speaker 5 (41:23):
And one of the things that he said too, that
I think kind of ties into what you were just saying,
is a lot of times people don't have the language
to talk about it, right, he said at that time,
he didn't have, you know, it was he couldn't put
it into words. He didn't know that, oh, okay, this
actually helps with that. He knows it's helping him. But
how are you going to tell somebody when the whole
(41:44):
world looks at it, Like you just said, you're just
trying to get hot, You're just trying to party.
Speaker 2 (41:49):
You're just a weed head. Yeah, you're you're a stoner.
Speaker 5 (41:52):
And now that we do have the language and capacity,
no matter which side of it, you're on. These are
kind conversations that can be had. These are conversations that
can be talked about even if you don't if you
want to keep your kids away from weed, or if
you want to be able to have it medicinally. Now
that we have these words like it helps with anxiety
(42:16):
and mental health. Yeah, it's all of these things that
I don't think we're even thought of saying in the
same sentence with marijuana.
Speaker 2 (42:27):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (42:27):
I mean, like you couldn't talk about being like, hey,
I don't think I should play now, you're not tough,
And it was like, oh, you can't. Ricky was always
he can't deal with the pressure, right, and it's like,
what does that even mean. I'm just supposed to be
dealing with the pressure.
Speaker 2 (42:41):
And at the same time, oh, you're dealing with paint.
Come take this right exact Yeah, yeah, come get this shot.
Speaker 3 (42:47):
And then the turk guy, like the health guy, will
be like, yeah, he can get you a few more
like yeah, I mean you hear those stories about the
pill passing and like the greenies, like the coffee they're
taking amphetamines.
Speaker 2 (42:56):
In the eighties.
Speaker 4 (42:57):
Yeah, it's unbelievable.
Speaker 3 (43:00):
Yeah, And so again that's why hearing these stories, particularly
someone that was like in the middle of this area
and where we've come now and hearing like how it's
different for athletes, and you know, you think even like
very recently Shikari Richardson she got suspended and even a
lot of the pushback on her it really was like, well,
this is her fault. She's wrong, like she should have known,
(43:21):
and like, you know what it's and if.
Speaker 2 (43:23):
She wasn't able to tell her side of.
Speaker 4 (43:25):
It right exactly, probably roll with that.
Speaker 2 (43:27):
And who knows if she would ever got back into
the Olympics.
Speaker 3 (43:30):
Yeah, and you saw the push I mean there was
I would I don't know what there was, but I
assume the vast majority of folks in our country were like,
this is not something that she should be knocked.
Speaker 4 (43:39):
Out of the Olympics. And I think there was a
lot more empathy on her for she was.
Speaker 5 (43:44):
Asked the question had been asked right after a race,
ties back into anxiety, mental health issues, those type of things,
and me, you know me, come on, man, she won
a race. She should get an extra metal like she won. Yeah,
(44:05):
give her an extra little add on, man, You know
how to give you the thing when you graduated, like
give her an extra little sash because.
Speaker 6 (44:13):
She is crazy's looking to that.
Speaker 2 (44:18):
Yeah, so special.
Speaker 5 (44:21):
Thank you to Ricky Williams. His family had his kid there.
Reminded me of being with my son.
Speaker 2 (44:27):
It was great. Yeah, that's that's the first episode.
Speaker 4 (44:31):
What we got up next another amazing athlete.
Speaker 3 (44:34):
But we're going to talk a little bit more about
actual physical pain and that's with Liz Carmose. She's a
veteran m M, A fighter, gorilla, total badass. She's going
to talk about some of her you know, in a
world of combat sport where you're constantly under injury and
strain and training. CBDs really helped her with her training
and keeping at the top of her game so long
(44:56):
in that sport, which you know, it's a pretty short
shelf life for a lot of folks.
Speaker 4 (44:59):
And so we'll this ball rolling.
Speaker 3 (45:00):
But what an awesome guest to kick off with Ricky Williams.
Awesome that you gotta do at Clay and amazing like
in his home, Like it's cool to get to get
that vibe and it's been awesome to travel around and
see these people where they're at.
Speaker 4 (45:11):
Again, special thank you to Ricky and awesome.
Speaker 2 (45:14):
That was a war on drugs.
Speaker 3 (45:17):
The War on Drugs is a production of Lava for
Good and Stand Together Music and association with Signal Company
Number one. Stand Together Music unites musicians and their teams
with proven change makers to co create solutions to some
of the most pressing issues in our country, including criminal justice,
for foreign addiction, recovery, mental health, education, free speech, and
(45:39):
ending the War on drugs. Learn more at Standogether Music
dot org. Be sure to follow Lava for Good on Instagram, Facebook,
and threads at Lava for Good. You can follow Clayton
English on Instagram, n X at Clayton English, and you
can follow Greg Laude on Instagram and on X at
Greg Latt. Executive producers Jason and Flahm, Jeff Kempler, Kevin Wardis,
(46:03):
and Collette Wintraub. Senior producers Kelsey Stallnecker, Zak Huffman and
Nick Stunf. Post production by ten ten, Audio talent booking
by Dan Resnik. Rez Entertainment Head of Marketing and Operations,
Jeff Cleiburn, Social Media director Ismadi Gaudarrama, Social media manager
Sarah Gibbons, and art director Andrew Nelson.
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Decisions, Decisions
Welcome to "Decisions, Decisions," the podcast where boundaries are pushed, and conversations get candid! Join your favorite hosts, Mandii B and WeezyWTF, as they dive deep into the world of non-traditional relationships and explore the often-taboo topics surrounding dating, sex, and love. Every Monday, Mandii and Weezy invite you to unlearn the outdated narratives dictated by traditional patriarchal norms. With a blend of humor, vulnerability, and authenticity, they share their personal journeys navigating their 30s, tackling the complexities of modern relationships, and engaging in thought-provoking discussions that challenge societal expectations. From groundbreaking interviews with diverse guests to relatable stories that resonate with your experiences, "Decisions, Decisions" is your go-to source for open dialogue about what it truly means to love and connect in today's world. Get ready to reshape your understanding of relationships and embrace the freedom of authentic connections—tune in and join the conversation!