January 15, 2025 • 43 mins
Whether it’s a soft beat or a Met Gala glamour moment, putting on makeup can inspire confidence and unleash the inner baddie within many of us. Welcome back to another installment of our January Jumpstart series – designed to make 2025 one of your best years yet. You’ll want to grab a notepad, a mirror, and maybe a little setting spray as we explore how beginners can kickstart their makeup journey — while not forgetting that true beauty lies within. Joining me for this conversation is the artist, creative director, and makeup maestro, Sir John. Sir John is the visionary behind iconic looks for legends like Beyoncé, Naomi Campbell, and Serena Williams and is also a Creative Director, Business Executive, and TV Host.
During our conversation, we discussed his journey of becoming a makeup mogul, shares some of his favorite makeup hacks (including a few Beyoncé-approved tips), and emphasizes the importance of developing a personal relationship with makeup that’s undeterred by trends or societal pressures.
About the Podcast
The Therapy for Black Girls Podcast is a weekly conversation with Dr. Joy Harden Bradford, a licensed Psychologist in Atlanta, Georgia, about all things mental health, personal development, and all the small decisions we can make to become the best possible versions of ourselves.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:10):
Welcome to the Therapy for Black Girls Podcast, a weekly conversation
about mental health, personal development, and all the small decisions
we can make to become the best possible versions of ourselves.
I'm your host, doctor Joy Hard and Bradford, a licensed
psychologist in Atlanta, Georgia. For more information or to find
(00:32):
a therapist in your area, visit our website at Therapy
for Blackgirls dot com. While I hope you love listening
to and learning from the podcast, it is not meant
to be a substitute for a relationship with a licensed
mental health professional. Hey, y'all, thanks so much for joining
(00:58):
me for session three ninety four of the Black Girls Podcast.
We'll get right into our conversation after a word from
our sponsors.
Speaker 2 (01:05):
Hi, I'm sir John, a celebrity makeup artist and visionary.
Join me for this special January Jumpstar episode designed to
help you make twenty twenty five your best year yet.
Speaker 1 (01:27):
Whether it's a soft beat or a met gala, glamor moment,
putting on makeup can inspire confidence and unleash the inner
Baddy within many of us. Welcome back to another installment
of our January Jumpstart series, designed to make twenty twenty
five one of your best years yet. You want to
grab a notepad, a mirror, and maybe a little setting
(01:47):
spray as we explore how beginners can kickstart their makeup
journey while not forgetting that true beauty lies within. Joining
me for this conversation is the artist, creative director, and
makeup mi shro Sir John. Sir John is the visionary
behind iconic looks for legends like Beyonce, Naomi Campbell, and
Serena Williams. More than just a makeup artist, Sir John
(02:09):
is also a creative director, of business, executive, and TV host,
all of which he does while inspiring others to celebrate
true individuality and curate a beautiful, holistic lifestyle. During our conversation,
Sir John takes us through his journey of becoming a
makeup mogul, shares some of his favorite makeup hacks, including
a few Beyonce approved tips, and emphasizes the importance of
(02:31):
developing a personal relationship with makeup that's undeterred by trends
or societal pressures. If something resonates with you while enjoying
our conversation, please share with us on social media using
the hashtag tvg in session or join us over in
the Sister Circle so talk more about the episode. You
can join us at community dot therapy for Blackgirls dot com.
(02:52):
Here's our conversation.
Speaker 2 (03:03):
I love your hair.
Speaker 1 (03:04):
Thank you, thank you so much. I'm having a good
one day hair twist out. It doesn't always turn out
that way.
Speaker 2 (03:11):
Okay, okay, but no, but like, so what does it
do after this?
Speaker 1 (03:14):
Well, if I twist it back up tonight, it just
gets bigger and bigger, which is what I love. Yes, yeah,
but the twist out sometimes comes out too tight on
day one, too.
Speaker 2 (03:23):
Tight on day one. Yeah, I was seeing a hack
on tektalk. But do you use like anti frizz and
then an oil and all that kind of stuff?
Speaker 1 (03:30):
No, I use just an oil, but I don't have
anything anti frieze. Maybe I should incorporate that because your hair.
Speaker 2 (03:34):
Is natural, right mm hmm, it'll keep that curl powdern
in there longer without it being like your day three,
if that makes any right.
Speaker 1 (03:41):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I know exactly what you're talking about.
Speaker 2 (03:43):
Yeah, so, like an anti frish serum would be dope.
And also, like, okay, I got so many questions do
you use that's.
Speaker 1 (03:49):
You're already giving me advice. I love it.
Speaker 2 (03:52):
Do you use the steamer?
Speaker 1 (03:54):
I do not. My beautician does use a steamer when
I go, like every three months, So but would you
suggest more frequently?
Speaker 2 (04:02):
Yeah? So guess what. Guess who has one? Tracy just
came out with the first at home steamers, Like, you know,
I didn't know how. I'm like, I was sitting next
to Angela rod We should probably put this on.
Speaker 1 (04:12):
We're already recording.
Speaker 2 (04:13):
Okay, okay, So we were out of dinner for Sergio Hudson,
who's a great friend of mine, sitting next to Angela Rye.
We're talking to Tracy and so everyone's talking about how
much they love the steamer. And so I didn't know steaming.
I've been seeing it, but I didn't know how amazing
it is for hair, especially if you have curly hair,
because the moisture needs to travel right up the follicle.
(04:33):
So at home steamer is going to be like your
jam on your days off or when you want to
bring your curl pattern back to life or whatever that
looks like. And I'm want to use it. I'm like,
can I turn it around and use it on my
face too?
Speaker 1 (04:44):
I mean why not?
Speaker 2 (04:45):
So?
Speaker 1 (04:46):
Yeah, thank you thank you for that. I appreciate this
little pre.
Speaker 2 (04:50):
Just jump right in, right up, right in.
Speaker 1 (04:53):
Yeah, so we are already getting acquaened. But I would
love for you to share with the audience, what's your
earliest memory of me make up? Maybe it is a
family member of like putting makeup on, or like the
first time you actually had a brush.
Speaker 2 (05:05):
My earliest memory of makeup was my mom really, because
grew up with a single mom, always seeing her go
into the bathroom, I understood self care as a child
because she needed a moment for herself. Sometimes she'd liked
to take baths even though we had shower, or once
she was getting herself together to go somewhere or do whatever,
even though it was a quick routine, I just knew
(05:25):
that moment changed her. So even if it was a
ninety second face or whatever, I felt like she was
different when she came out. And so that was kind
of my first entry point into like the transformative power
of beauty or makeup. And I would say mascara was
her things. She was always a mascareco. She was a
beautiful it still is, but I always thought she was
just so beautiful. So this mascara, this black stuff she
used to put on her lashes would always make her
(05:46):
just a bit more like Diana Ross. But I would
say also the first time I picked up a makeup brush.
I went to school for art in art history since
I was six years old, and so the first time
I picked up a makeup brush was on accident. I
was in Atlanta, was going to school for a second there,
just for a very short time, and one of my
friends who was a model the makeup artist canceled on
(06:06):
her that day for her shoot. She was shooting a
catalog and she asked me could I paint her face
and do that kind of thing? And so I was like,
what do you mean, Like do you want me to dislike?
I have no idea this is a job career. Even
though I followed the supermodels a new fashion really well,
I didn't know that being a makeup artist was something
that was a trade. Even the photographer who loved it,
(06:27):
and he asked me to come back the next week
and do the same thing for like three hundred dollars
three hundred and fifty, I want to say, And at
the time, I'm like, you want to pay me again?
So yeah, that was my first makeup memory. Of Oh
my god, this is fun and I can do this
and it's easy money. So I organically got into the business.
Speaker 1 (06:43):
Yeah, so you were literally painting like her face was
your canvas.
Speaker 2 (06:48):
Canvas canvas, and all faces are canvases. We're all storytellers,
whether you're a hairstylist, a makeup artist, an interior designer,
or DJ, We're all storytellers at the end of the day.
And so every time I go to work or start
to storyboard something for a client, I always start to
think about everything is a fresh canvas, and how can
we bring some secret sauce to that day, to that routine,
to that show, super Bowl, whatever that may be.
Speaker 1 (07:10):
So, how would you say your relationship to makeup has
really changed and evolved throughout your career.
Speaker 2 (07:15):
Wow, that's a really good question, Dank. What's while is
that I'm going to iHeartRadio soon. I'm just actually signing
a deal right now.
Speaker 1 (07:22):
Well, welcome to the iHeart family.
Speaker 2 (07:24):
Oh yeah, oh yeah, yeah, okay, okay, okay, come on,
doctor Joy. So yeah, I love those guys. And so
what's been really interesting is talking to a few people
about you can lose the magic. And when I say
lose the magic, There have been moments when I kind
of left makeup and win It's windows or doing the merchandise,
eating for Burdoff Goodman and Henry Bendall's in New York.
(07:45):
I was a mess merchandise Raguci for a while because
I was just like, Okay, well, let me just leave
this makeup thing alone and do something else that I'm
passionate about, which is home in interior. It followed me
in a bigger way, which is that time meeting Pat
McGrath's assistant and going to Europe and started working with
Charlotte Tewbury and the whole cascading. It's a fashion idea,
but I started to evolve and change when your love
(08:08):
of what you do can change when things like contracts,
licensing deals, agents get involved. So if you have any
friends who are in a creative space, whether they are dancers, singers, guitarists,
really talented people, their love of their art form, at
some point they have to find it again because you
may lose it. The brilliance or the beautiful nature of
(08:31):
what got you out of bed in the morning may
change when all of these other things they enter the
cipher or answer the fold. If you will so I
think the goal is too Like Aretha says, rock steady,
and how can I rock steady and still love what
I do or still love the art form? And I
think it's just more or less. How can I not change?
But how can I evolve as an artist? So I
(08:51):
think that as long as we honor the form of
how we are introduced to the business and try to
quiet the noise down, because it can be really noisy
at times, and you can lose yourself, You can lose
your sense of what's your why I came into this business. Also,
before Instagram, before social media, Twitter was like a baby,
I guess. So seeing all these things happen in the
(09:12):
era of YouTube and the TikTokers and the art of
influencers really starts to make us all redefined. What do
we love about it? And what do we have to
contribute if you.
Speaker 1 (09:21):
Will, and what would you say has helped you to
kind of regain your love? At this point, you.
Speaker 2 (09:26):
Don't need permission. You need a reminder at times to
be in your full self, to remember what your secret
sauce is. So like remembering what my secret sauce was
and what I love to do and what's so unique
about what I do when I get to work. It's
the thing that is my guide in life. I love inspiring.
We're healers in some way. We're always working on someone's
crown chakra. We've given so much to our clients, to
(09:49):
fashion directors, to beauty advisors, to the people, to the
masses in so many different ways, so you can actually
be drained. It can really drain you at some point
working as a professional hairstylist or makeup artist, even a star.
I look at Law recently, you know, I interviewed Law
for the Naked Beauty podcast, and you know he talks
about fatigue and what fatigue looks like when you're constantly
(10:09):
in service to someone or the people, And so I
had to think about what I love about the space
that I'm in. I've been so blessed to inspire so
many people coming behind me and continue to hold doors
open that were not even thought to be there. And
so I think that's the goal for me, is to
start to create avenues or ways to redefine the landscape
(10:31):
of what it means to be a makeup artist.
Speaker 1 (10:33):
Thank you so much for sharing that, and you know,
I really appreciate you talking about the burnout and like
the fatigue, because I think some people would look at
what you all do and it's like, it's so glamorous,
it's so fun, and but there's an incredible intimacy that
you are cultivating with your client. People talk about it
as defacto therapists a lot, right, Like, because you're very
intimate with your clients. What would you suggest in terms
(10:56):
of maybe newer or younger professionals in the space around
how to set boundaries on protecting their energy.
Speaker 2 (11:02):
That's a really good question. Who So, I would love
to dive into what does a boundary mean? At first? Right? So,
a boundary what that looks like for younger creatives is
where does the line stop with what I am here
to give people? How much I should be available, how
much I should be of service. You can give of
yourself to clients until you're blue in the face, and
talent or companies they'll just take, take, take, and you'll
(11:25):
never know when Hey, this is the line that I
have for myself. And I think the more mature we
become in our careers, the more we have an idea
of hey, I can only show up in this way.
That's what a boundary you can look like I can
only show up if I have this much support from
you guys taking care of an assistant or making sure
that my assistant comes there in our early in preps
so my day is easier. A boundary might be the
way you travel, or how you want to fly, or
(11:47):
how you need to fly so you're actually able to
give your best self when you get to work. So
I think boundaries can come in many different directions, but
I think it comes into what will allow me to
feel more whole when I show up. Maybe that's hey,
I can't work more than a twelve hour day. Maybe
it's like I have children now and I have to
honor the fact that I need a break every six
(12:08):
hours for thirty minutes to check in on my new
born baby in terms of a FaceTime, whatever those things
may be. There might be incremental little moments throughout your
day or your routine, but you'll know. And also, boundaries
look like I would say, they come in the form
of at this big grown age of mine, we have teams,
we have people a that we have to pay and
take care of. We take care of villages if you will,
(12:29):
and all the big makeup artists I know all the
big stylists, the ones who are known by first names only,
they employ a lot of people and that inspire a
lot of people at the same time. But who's taking
care of these guys? And so I look to the
agents or a manager to really understand what it's like
to take care of talent. And I'm gonna keep it real.
I'm Gonnakeep. I don't say this often, but even though
we are not like the big movie stars, if you will,
(12:52):
we're not boxed office hits, but we're often on huge
agencies with talent, or we're up against basketball players and
movie stars. But we're still talent at the end of
the day, and we need to be protected. So I
think that as I'm talking to my peers right now,
as long as you guys have breath in your bodies,
it's our job to campaign for not just ourselves, but
what it looks like to advocate for yourself in the
(13:15):
most diplomatic way possible. As I talk to a lot
of younger creatives who happen to be black bipoc too,
that whole BIPODC thing, we're gon we're gonna shlve that
for a little while right now, we're back to that
capital b okay. And I always tell them you have
to advocate for yourself. You don't have to assimilate to
any culture. You can still be in your full self.
I love my blackness, but your ideas have to translate well.
(13:37):
And so when I say translate well, it's like knowing
how to go into a room or a large set
in front of people who might be really intimidating to
you guys you might have seen their careers when you
were younger, or figure out how can I go in
and advocate for myself in a way that honors the
thing that we need to make this job happen. But
I don't know how to talk to these people who
I respect so much. And I think the goal is
(13:58):
this is the takeaway is like what can you do
in this conversation to make sure that we can all
have a win here? So what does a win look like?
A win looks like the person who I came with today,
she needs better lighting. It's only going to be not
just about for me, but the client isn't going to
be happy. Maybe this won't be actually really great for
the fashion director or when you bring this back to
the magazine, so can you help me figure out what
(14:19):
does a win look like for us right now in
this conversation and let's reverse engineer and work our way backward.
Speaker 1 (14:24):
Thank you, herened. You really drop some gems in some
things for people to write down in their notebook there,
so I really appreciate it. More from our conversation after
the break, but first a quick snippet of what's coming
up next week on TVG.
Speaker 3 (14:37):
And I think we've also got to engage a fear
of being seen. I think that's a big piece to it.
I know you probably see this also in the community
to cultivate, like you know, everybody, I don't want nobody
in my business. Everybody got to be in all your business.
But sometimes in this culture of Instagram perfectionism, we're trying
to always reject this image that it's not real. We're
trying to like hide behind image. And if that image
becomes a prison where we cannot connect authithically with people
(15:00):
care about We're so afraid of people seeing our blemishes
and our flaws and that the reality is those things
make us beautiful. But in order for people to really
care for us, wet lean into the fear of being
cared for and the fear of being seen, which a
lot of us have, right, You know, we got the
nice pictures up, but who am I really? I think
as the big pieces I think about.
Speaker 1 (15:18):
You know, I love this story that you share at
the beginning about your mom and being in the bathroom
putting on her mass scare because I think that that
(15:41):
is what makeup is for a lot of us, right.
It is like a confidence inducing kind of moments to
really lean into parts of our identity that maybe we
aren't always so comfortable sharing. Can you talk a little
bit about the role that makeup has and like helping
to improve our confidence?
Speaker 2 (15:54):
Absolutely? I always talk about how beauty is are feeling.
I always taught what beauty is supposed to like throwing
up under this impossible idea of what beautiful is, you know,
looking at the supers. I was obsessed with naom Me Campbell.
She actually ended up being my first client as well.
Or all of these beautiful people, the Hailey Beerrys. Remember
the campaigns back in the nineties, the hair boxes, all
those things of what it's supposed to be like, and
(16:16):
there weren't really so many different ways of seeing beauty
that was diverse, that looked like us, that felt like us.
So I always say that beauty is a feeling, because yes,
it's something you can see, but how does it make
you feel when you see that something that's beautiful or
someone that's beautiful. I'm more concerned about from a takeaway
perspective or a mental health perspective, what does it leave
(16:36):
on you? Does it leave a good impression, does it
leave you inspired? And so beauty should move the needle
for us. When we see a beautiful garden, you know,
when we look at, you know, a really gorgeous home,
and so taking beauty out of the context of people,
we look at environments or anything that provokes you to
feel something emotionally, it is a feeling. So I always
talk about, yes, it's great to look great, it's great
(16:57):
to get adult hair cut, it's beautiful to have nice
new outfit, But if it doesn't make you feel better inside,
then it's just a mass it's just a band aid.
It's temporary. Like I was saying earlier, hopefully if you're
doing the temperature check within yourself, checking in or how
do I feel what's coming up for me? How do
these people make me feel? How do these spaces allow
me to feel Do I feel home? Do I feel present?
(17:17):
I think that's more of the goal when it comes
to beauty than anything that happens to be a visual
or aesthetic.
Speaker 1 (17:23):
So how cool is it that you have something on
your vision board or you talked about, like looking up
to somebody like Naomi Campbell, and then she becomes your
first client. What do you feel like you learned in
working with her?
Speaker 2 (17:33):
If I have one thing one superpower is that I'm
a really good manifestor, and I know, for good or bad,
if I think about something that's not too good, it's
going to show up too. But that goes back to
this old saying of whatever you give emotional attention to
is your reality. If you always talk about your secd broke,
you're going to always be sick and broke, But if
you actually talk and know it's coming. I knew I
would see her, but I just didn't know how. And
(17:54):
so I remember I was in Milan at the DG
show and Pat tapped me on the back and asked
me to pack up. So I was like, oh, damn, Well,
maybe I put too much foundation on someone or I
don't know what I did wrong. And she's like, no,
I need you to go to the Bugari Hotel for
nail me. And I was like, oh man, okay. So
I was like, all right, cool, and I did and
(18:16):
it was easy, and we started working together for a
while a while, and I still see her and I
think she's just an amazing fortified soul in our business,
if that makes any sense. And it's like the absolute
picture of what it looks like to be black and great.
When you have a manifesting win and this is the
homework for a lot of people who are watching it,
and you could be at any part of the game,
it's always a refresher of like as long as you're alive,
(18:37):
have a manifesting exercise, like can I pull something forward?
Can I pull this parking space forward a little bit
by just visualizing me parking this car? And so I
do that often as an exercise to see, hey, do
I have a shortcut with source? Energy? Source with source?
And so that's what it looks like. And as a creative,
when we're storyboarding for big projects, Grammys or campaigns, all
(19:00):
we are doing is manifesting ideas. We're starting to visualize
a world that we want our clients to live in.
When I storyboard and pull these images together or this
is what it could look like, guys, and I do
a pitch to a company, all it is is me
having an idea or creating a world that I want
to bring people closer to, or that I can imagine
on someone or this car company or this magazine. I
think the goal is to continue to have great imagination.
(19:23):
I think imagination is key, and then after imagination is faith.
Speaker 1 (19:26):
So you talked a little bit about this, but what
do you really see as the connection between mental health
and makeup.
Speaker 2 (19:32):
I always tell people that when you buy a handbag,
it doesn't cover a childhood'scar. You know, when you buy
a jacket, it doesn't reaffirm what you love about the
hair you were told not to love. So when I
think about beauty, it's so emotional because it starts to
go back into the archives or who we were, how
we want to see ourselves, and who we know ourselves
to be and who we can be. It's a little
(19:53):
bit of past, present, and future all in one. Idea
soothing something from the past, and it doesn't have to
be always an insecure It could be something that you love.
And then what does this look like for me right now.
And then also the fun part about it is, yo,
I might pull a dude later with this lip, you
know what I mean? Or with these lashes, I might
be able to like battlement, get fluid out. I don't know,
(20:16):
but I think that what's beautiful about beauty When I
say beauty, makeup, hair, nails, Listen, you can be eight
or eighty eight. It's so inclusive. It's the original inclusive area.
Fashion hasn't always been so inclusive to us. Even though
we make style, we make our own style. So I
love what it does for confidence. And you could be
naked in the mirror getting ready and put it on
T shirt and jeans and love the way that your
(20:38):
hair is done. I love the way your hair is.
We start this conversation around your hair and that doesn't
need anything else except you. So that's what I love
from a mental health standpoint. Doesn't move the needle. I
was talking to a few people, oh a lot of
people actually, especially men. I don't bulleting beauty. That's crazy
for you to say that. Okay, cool, but if you
go get a shave, when you go to the barber,
(20:58):
how do you feel when you leave the barb. When
you spray on fragrance, that brute, whatever you spray on,
how does it make you feel even if no one
else is looking watching? Does it move the needle for you?
Does it put a pap in your step? And if
it does, you're affected by beauty? Can I ask you
a question?
Speaker 1 (21:14):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (21:15):
Good, so, doctor Joy, do you find that beauty is
healing in any way?
Speaker 1 (21:19):
Yeah? I love what you just said. I'm like, Wow,
this sounds very therapeutic, right, because you're right, it can
cover scars, but it also can enhance the things that
we love about ourselves. And I do think that there
is something very grounding about just the ritual of beauty, right,
Like it can help to kind of start your day.
It can really help you get situated in time and please, So,
I think that there are lots of healing properties of
(21:41):
beauty for sure.
Speaker 2 (21:42):
You know what's wild is I work with Beam so
Black emotional and mental health and so one thing I
love about Beam is that they go into barbershops. What's
the first point of healing for our community salons? And
they actually train and certify barbers and now artists a
hairstylist on what is it like to sue or give
tools to your community when they start to unpack, because
(22:04):
a lot of us still believe in only the church
and no therapy, even though that's a whole other conversation.
But I love that there's a beautiful entry point, and
let's go exactly to where that entry point is. So
I'm always a huge fan, and I'll do anything that
being asking me to do.
Speaker 1 (22:18):
I love that. I love that. So you mentioned earlier,
just like how your career has had such a longevity,
you started before all of the Instagram, TikTok all the things,
and I do think that has impacted our idea of
beauty right, Like a lot of us are looking at
tutorials and like we want to look like this person.
How would you suggest people kind of redefine beauty for
(22:38):
themselves without being influenced by all the things we can
see on our phones.
Speaker 2 (22:44):
Follow people who don't make you feel good about yourself,
and that's in all different directions. If you follow an
account that makes you feel like, you know what, Damn,
I just don't have it together. I might like the
way that this person has a place setting for all
their guests every week, but it's just an impossible level
of perfection, can't live up to and follow that person.
Whatever's easier for you to align with, and it's soothing,
(23:05):
that's the goal. You should follow soothing accounts. But I
would say that at the end of the day, it's like,
what do you have that you want to bring to
the world, and then let's work backward. I think that
we are in a space where it's really difficult to
keep up with algorithms. It's difficult to keep up with
an idea of what's trending or our peers. And I
don't believe in competition. I believe that we all should
(23:27):
be winning and we shouldn't look to the left or
to the right. So for everyone who's listening, I think
that my little secret formula is I stay in my
own lane. I try to be as ignorant to everything
else that's happening as possible, and then when I come in,
I don't have the worry or the anxiety on how
to show up because I don't know what everybody else
is doing. And so I think that's really important to us.
(23:48):
One thing I want to say to black creators is
that black creators, we are the original influencers. I didn't
make this up IRMANI set this the other day from
culture con We are the original influencers, and I think
the goal is to train our teams and people who
need to monetize those things just what our impact is.
But don't ever doubt your impact in any room, in
(24:10):
any table, in a conversation. And you have also nothing
to prove. So I think the goal is how can
you show up as your organic self? But as your
organic self? My challenge to you would be is what
does your organic self look like twelve months from now?
Twenty four months from now? Set a critical path. I
want to say, a critical path. Every business, every brand founder,
they have for the next twenty four months. This is
(24:32):
my goal. We're going to release that in twenty four
months or this whatever, and then they work backward. So
who do you see yourself as or want to be
in two years? And then if you have to look
at incremental quarterly check marks of what do you do
to get there? Who are you every six months? If
that makes any sense, that is how you can engineer
your life in a really organic way.
Speaker 1 (24:52):
I love that. That feels like a perfect segue for
my next question because the conversation we're having today is
a part of our January Jumpstart series. So you know,
one of the goals sometimes people have at the beginning
of the years, like I want to get better at
like doing my makeup. And so I love that you
have shared that because I think that that can be
a way to kind of forecast like, Okay, in a year,
this is what I want to have achieved with makeup.
(25:14):
But before we get to makeup, I think we have
to talk about skincare. So it's not like the role
that skincare has even in good makeup policemen.
Speaker 2 (25:22):
Oh yeah, skin is the brick and mortar of any routine.
It's the basis, it's the foundation, it's the ground zero
because good skin is scaffolding. And so what is your
relationship like to your skincare? And so when I say that,
it doesn't have to be really complicated. You don't have
to use tons of things that are going to trip
your skin. But also there's so many black founders who
have found ways. For example, there's one called brown Kind
(25:45):
right now. Brown Kind addresses uneven pigmentation. I love. There
is a company called Caramel Secret Tone, and it's a
little bit on the more lux of the line, but
it's all stem cell BioResearch because we're biology, we're not botanical.
And so I'm thinking about ways that you can protect
your melanin as Also, we need to use an SPF.
Black don't crack, guys, but it can sag. Okay, I'm
(26:07):
gonna say it again. Black don't crack, but it can sag.
And so how am I creating a barrier to make
sure that everything I have underneath doesn't oxidize. We think about, oh,
I don't need an SPF because I have melanin, I'm black,
or whatever, this and that. But you're using a chemical moisturizer,
You're using something with a slight retinal or maybe a
glycolic in your toner and not realizing those things are
(26:29):
going to ravage your skin under the sun. Maybe even
your foundation might have too much of an active ingredient
that you need to counteract. So I do say, let's
protect your skin with some factor, if you will. But
to that point, yes, skincare is really important. And then
also looking at your diet, what are you eating? From
a holistic standpoint, we are the original wellness agriculture came
(26:50):
from US Indigenous people, Bipop people, black people. We have
to think about our relationship to source, to the earth.
We've always been here, but now it has new names.
So are you juicing? Do you have things in refrigerator
like kale? Kale has six hundred and fifty percent envitamin K,
so it speeds up any sluggish circulation. When you look
in the mirror, if you see dark circles most of
(27:10):
the time, it's slugg a circulation. Beats. I don't like
to eat beats, so I take dried beats and I
just don't make some water and just chug it. Don't
even know I'm tasting. Listen, if you could drink whiskey,
you can drink a green juice, you know what I mean.
And it really repairs in my skin. It makes sure
that oxidizes and cleanses my blood from anything, you know,
if I had too much fun that week. So there's
so many things that you can take that will impact
(27:33):
your overall complexion as a whole before you even get
to a foundation.
Speaker 1 (27:36):
Got it? So, can you give us a couple of
steps of what we can have in our makeup routine,
especially for beginners, Like what are some steps we should
be following?
Speaker 2 (27:45):
So for beginners, complexion is key so having a beautiful complexion,
and I would say a complexion looks like making sure
you have a really great toner after you invest it
in something that's going to even out any uneven pigmentation.
Maybe a little bit of a lactic acid moisturizer. Those
are the things that will really smooth your skin, and
then you'll use less foundation. Maybe a tinted moisturizer is
(28:06):
really key, Maybe a light version of foundation. I like
to use agg sponge or a wet beauty blender shutout
to rehand from beauty blender. Love fer. I'll wet it,
I'll squeeze it out, and I'll take foundation on the
back of my hand, whether it's a liquid or a cream,
and I'll start to stiple it in areas that a
knee coverage and dialing it down where you don't. So
dial up the coverage where you do need it, and
really give yourself like a barely their makeup where you don't,
(28:29):
but you want to invest in the right tone of
complexion or make sure that you're shape matching, so you
can really do that effectively. I love a liquid and
I also love a cream, but the way I approach
makeup is always from an editorial standpoint, like magazines, so
it has to look like it's barely there or not
there at all. For me, I obsess over that part.
And then once you have complexion down in a good concealer,
concealer is bombed. Sometimes I'll skip foundations and I'll just
(28:51):
go straight to concealers to travel with because they're easier
for me. I can mix them with a moisturizer and
make them to a buttery tent instead of like such
a heavy look brows, look at the hair on your face.
Your brows and your lashes are really important because they
make you expressive. Whenever you see pictures of yourself when
you're a baby or younger, we always have these full brows,
full lashes, and it creates so much emotion when we
(29:13):
were talking or in pictures, and so dialing back into
that space of giving yourself really beautiful brows, really gorgeous lashes,
taking down lashes that look too crazy. Everybody knows. I
used to work in a strip club in Queen's shout
out to Astoria thirty fifth and Steinway rivieras Hey girls,
but leader stripper lashes for the PM or whatever have
a different wardrobe of lashes for different outfits. For a
(29:37):
daytime when you're wanting to be a bit more sophisticated
and elegant, A heavy lash, a chunky lash just is
too much contrast for the look or the idea that
you want people to take away. From an editorial perspective,
I feel like, when you're having fun and you want
to party, go for more lash, guys, But other than that,
please dial them back that way. My only makeup foot,
Paul is let's take it back on the lashes. Just
(29:58):
a hair a hair, it's gotten out, it's gotten out
of control. It's gotten out a control.
Speaker 1 (30:04):
More from our conversation after the break, you kind of
alluded to this, but can you talk about undertones because
I feel like this is the thing that kind of
gets people tripped up. What are undertones? And like how
do we use that to know like our sheep?
Speaker 2 (30:24):
So you have to think of am I olive? Or
am I really warm? Under your complexion? And that doesn't
have anything to do with when you're laughing and you're
blush or you turn red, but knowing your undertone and
I think the biggest challenge is to go on the
search for not just a foundation color, but texture at
your house and your make a wardrobe wherever you are.
You should have a wardrobe of complexion. So I would
(30:45):
love for people to think about, not only do I
want something in my complexion that's matt, Maybe I want
to be matt in the T zone and glowy everywhere
else because I have combination skin for me. Maybe we
want to be luminous in the winter so your skin
can look breathable and sexy. Maybe in the summer you
need a bit more control of the oil. So having
your color but multi textures is going to be the
(31:06):
next level of how to shop for foundations. And it's
easier now than ever. You go to Sophora, Alta anywhere
that has a library of colors, don't just look at
the color, look at the texture. But I'm going to
leave it up to everyone to start to lean into
their undertone because it's so personal. Some people love to
be warmer to cancel out how alive they are, and
(31:26):
I've seen that as well, So I don't want to
assign or be prescriptive to one undertone. But I'm going
to tell you texture and having multi textures is going
to be the name of the game. You'll thank me
for it later, trust me.
Speaker 1 (31:37):
So when you say different coverages and different textures, that
sounds like maybe different lines.
Speaker 2 (31:42):
Oh yeah, yeah yeah. So if I went to one
of my homegirls' houses or my sister's house, they're invest
in about three to four different foundations. So maybe one
is a stick that gives you fuller coverage, right, maybe
it's an HD stick. And then one is a liquid
that is medium coverage, but it is a sheer dewey
that you might need to set with a powder. And
then maybe one happens to be very very sheer, like
(32:05):
a tentate moisturizer, but it gives you a veil of protection,
maybe has a little bit of sunscreen side of it.
And then also you have a thicker, fuller coverage concealer
to give wherever you need to spackle something, you know.
So I think having an array or an army of
the same color possibly but different textures is going to
give you like this new idea of how to look
at your face and strategically highlight, strategically glow, strategically be
(32:28):
matt in certain areas, almost like a makeup artist would do.
And that's before you start sculpting or anything like that, And.
Speaker 1 (32:34):
Is sculpting a must have kind of thing or is
that like an advanced skill?
Speaker 2 (32:38):
Sculpting is the evolution of contouring, right, And you don't
have this contour like Sam Fine or anything like that.
But I will say it's having a deeper foundation. Maybe
it's your summer foundation stick, you know, the one that
you use in August, you're using in January to just
buff in the temples of your forehead and under your
cheeks and under the jaw line. You want to create
a little bit of dimension. It's almost like taking a brush,
(32:59):
a blush brush, and create where would the sun hit
my face right now? And so that little bit of
dimension takes away this flat finish that you never want
after you apply your foundation. After you apply your foundation,
your face may be too flat and you want to
make it three dimensional again.
Speaker 1 (33:14):
So what role does blush have in the overall makeup
litp Oh my god.
Speaker 2 (33:18):
Love blush. It's my favorite product. Blush is my favorite.
Speaker 1 (33:21):
Really is there such a thing as too much blush?
Speaker 2 (33:24):
There's such things too much blush? I will say, But
you know what it's all about how you place it.
I like to use cream blushes and then I'll set
them with a loose powder. I would like to use
cream blushes, and I'll set them with a powder blush.
And older women, mature women, the women I'm talking about,
the golden girls. Old ladies know the power of blush
because it makes you look healthy again. If you don't
have anything else except a tinted moisturizer on right, and
(33:45):
clear lip glass or clear gloss. I said lip glass,
I brought it back right. You break out some blush,
Just break out a little blush. Especially women of color,
you can handle more color on the cheeks and then
the forehead. Don't be afraid to hit the forehead with
a little blush, a little bit on the high planes,
cheek bones, a little bit chin hit some in your
cupid's bow, this clavigal area. Sorry, you're a decolotage. It
makes it look like you just had sex. Like if
(34:07):
you see a little rush of heat right here, heat
on the chest translates to I just had sex. Guys,
you heard it here, you heard it here first. So
I think that blush is one of the best things
that have when in a hurry. It just makes you
look rich and healthy and alive.
Speaker 1 (34:23):
M So, can you confirm for us. Do makeup products
really expire?
Speaker 2 (34:28):
Like?
Speaker 1 (34:28):
How long can we actually keep my makeup?
Speaker 2 (34:30):
I'm the wrong person that ask as I've had some
shadows since the nineties and I'm not gonna let them
go because they could discontinue. And when things are a
powder form, you can keep them a lot longer. Any
pressed form of powder is not at risk of giving
you germs the way a mascara will, which only has
a ninety day they say ninety days. I keep mine
for about five months, So mascara, keep the mascara for
(34:53):
not too long a half a year max. Because you'll
acquire germs in your own mascara, even if it's only
you wearing it every day. Anything that to moisturizing, maybe
a lipstick might develop some kind of weird stuff over
a couple of years. I'm not going to tell you
guys on that one because I cheat.
Speaker 1 (35:10):
So what suggestions would you give to people for how
to not be afraid to make mistakes? Right? Like when
we are first learning how to do makeup, we might
do too much, do too much blush or whatever. How
would you suggest people kind of let go of the
fear of kind of getting it wrong to just start practicing.
Speaker 2 (35:25):
I think the goal is to do one thing at
a time. Really well, no one's a beginner anymore. No
one's a beginner anymore. It's too much education TikTok. There's
too many tutorials entertaining ones too. Like I started watching
Jackie i Aina back in the day and I was like,
it's entertaining now to watch and do this along with yourself.
So I would say, start to figure out your face.
(35:46):
If you have an idea how to apply or what
to apply, figure out on my face. I want to
go higher here. I want to create a bit more
structure here. So knowing your face is the level of
artistry that we're going into next, not just how to
apply it. Also keeping wet foundation sponge, keeping that nearby,
so if you feel like you play something too heavy,
just go back in and touch it. Go back in
(36:06):
and it's happened somewhere and you'll be in a really
good place. The last hack I have Beyonce does this,
My sister does this, and I didn't even realize they
both do this all the time, is that after you
get your makeup done one day, or if you feel
like you did your makeup and it's a little too
stiff or you know, hit that shower, but with the
door open it will look so organic and then you're like, oh, okay,
(36:27):
I can do this. So if you ever feel win
in doubt, don't be afraid to take a shower, but
don't let any of that water hit your face. That's
a whole different heroin chic look that I don't think
you guys are going for.
Speaker 1 (36:38):
I don't so what hecks do you have for us
on picking lipsticks?
Speaker 2 (36:44):
So A coined the phrase. It's called dopamine glam right,
And I'll give you a little quick history here. So
when I look at the late seventies, the anarchy, the
rebel that was coming out of London, the punk hair.
You remember when you can get stiffer in the rock.
That anarchy was fashion's reaction to what happening in society.
So it was a push against the machine. Rebel, rebel, rebel.
(37:04):
The music was a conveyor of it. And then if
we go a bit ten years later, if we go
to the nineties, I look at the goth era and
it was the anti fashion, anti glamour. Everyone wanted to
dress down. You know, the country was going through recession.
We were in a war during the Second Bush Era,
and so the fashion's reaction to that era was let's
be anti glamorous, anti anything. Kurt Cobain, Kate Moss was huge.
(37:26):
It was about grunge. Grunge was the name of the day.
And so now we think about fashion's reaction. Fashion's reaction
right now, I believe is how do I make myself
feel something better? There's so much happening right now, and
I think from a mental health standpoint, I don't think
we've ever had our nerves tried in this way, and
so it's so individual now. It's not about dressing for
someone else. It's not dressing up for your girlfriends or
(37:49):
to get a man. It's about what am I going
to do to make myself feel happy. So to answer
your question about the lipstick choices, I believe that that
is a choice I would never want to take away
from anyone. Right now, go and find something that makes
you feel like. It doesn't matter if it's popular right now.
It could be like a shiny, frosty lipstick from ninety four,
okay with brown line or chestnut brown line. If it
(38:10):
makes you feel great, rocket own it, do it. And
I don't want to assign a trend. I'm anti trend.
I've just never really been a guy who is about trends.
And I'm also anti celebrity. I don't think you guys
should look to runways or red carpet or anybody else
for how you should look or feel. You should only
look in the mirror on what's going to make you
feel or give yourself a pep in your step.
Speaker 1 (38:31):
Love that, love that. So where do you look for inspiration?
Speaker 2 (38:35):
I look for inspiration in so many different areas. I
love home, I love interiors. I'm obsessed with home interiors
and environments and moving things around. I was a guest
host on the Naked Beauty podcast shout out to Brook
de Vart, and I was obsessed with building a set
for every guest. I do this at home. It's my
happy place. My happy place are creating rooms, creating a
(38:56):
world for my guests or for the people. That's what
I love to do. I love to feed people and
cook like I saw the Martha Stewart documentary the other day,
and you guys should watch it. Man, It's so deep,
it's so good, and that's kind of me. I love
creating a world and not just to please people. I
want to share my world with everyone else, and so
that is what gives me inspiration. In general, I'm not
(39:16):
really inspired by fashion or beauty. I'm an art school
with it. I also go to museums. I'm more inspired
by things I can bring back to a conversation from
the moment, or going to see an exhibit at the
Met or the Google Hunt, the Lachma, and so when
I've been in rooms with talent celebrity and the biggest
of the biggest photographers and directors, what I can do
is I can always go back on my art history
(39:36):
references and pull something forward. And so that makes yourself
a destination of creativity. You'll feel comfortable having something to say.
So don't look at other makeup artists and beauty professionals.
Always go back two hundred years. Go get inspired by
something that no longer exists. I love what's happening with
the Met Gala, the dandy black tailoring. I'm so inspired
by the era because that's how I dress now. I
(39:58):
love suits, I love tailoring. So just get inspired by
everything else that has nothing to do with the space
you're right now.
Speaker 1 (40:04):
Okay, so you mentioned cooking for your guests. I gotta
know what your go to ish all bad.
Speaker 2 (40:08):
I make seven cheese mac and cheese baked a few
times on the top. It's an art form for me,
like I actually lose myself. I'm not even there. I
check out a little bit. I'll have a souv too,
So I suv ribs for like twelve hours, thirteen hours,
fuse in the bag with all these different things. Sometimes
I'll do a jerk one or I'll do like a
pesto one. And then once you take these ribs out
of the bag after twelve hours of like searing, and
(40:30):
then you throw them on hot grill for like five
you put them in a big thing some forks, and
then let people go to town. You know I love food. Yeah, yeah,
I love food. I love food.
Speaker 1 (40:42):
I love it. So as we close, what affirmations would
you offer to people who maybe are feeling a little
unsure about makeup or I feel like they can't quite
get it right. What affirmations would you offer?
Speaker 2 (40:54):
I would say the affirmations I have right now is
to lean into things that make you feel whole. It's
a personal things. When you're in the car, sometimes turn
off the radio. Don't always listen to music. Sometimes when
I am quiet or steal, as my grandmother used to say,
more will come to me. So be still for a
second and start to figure out who do I want
to be in this moment? Who do I know myself
(41:15):
to be right now? And also when I know who
I am right now, what can I do to decorate that?
What can I do to magnify it, to bring that
to a higher level? And I think that's the goal.
So knowing who you are and just throwing some dice
on it, adding a little something through it is really
where we should all be.
Speaker 1 (41:31):
So where can we stay connected with you? Sir John?
What is your website? As well as any social media
challenge you like to share?
Speaker 2 (41:37):
I'm sir John, that's my real name since I was
born across the all platforms. And then also go back
and take a look at a couple of the Naked
Beauty podcasts. The Naked Beauty podcast Broke Devart, the one
with Law, the one with jackiey in it talks about
makeup so much like in a beautiful way, she unpacked
so much. Didavantis was such a great guest and we
talk about inspiration. So a lot of what we talked
about here you can see in some of the things
(41:59):
we and Ms Tina came on too, So yeah, that's it.
And also, doctor Joy, I'm proud of you because I
love what you're doing, but also I love the perspective.
You're creating a filter or a lens for us to
not just see ourselves, but to fill ourselves. And that
is so amazing, especially right now, especially right now.
Speaker 1 (42:17):
Thank you so much, Sir John. I really appreciate it.
I'm so glad Sir John was able to join me
for this conversation. To learn more about him and his work,
be sure to visit the show notes at Therapy for
Blackgirls dot com slash Session three ninety four, and don't
forget to text two of your girls right now and
tell them to check out the episode. If you're looking
(42:38):
for a therapist in your area, visit our therapist directory
at Therapy for Blackgirls dot com slash directory. And if
you want to continue to get into this topic or
just be in community with other sisters, come on over
and join us in the Sister Circle. It's our cozy
condor the Internet designed just for black women. You can
join us at Community dot therapy for Blackgirls dot Com.
(42:58):
This episode was produced by Alice Ellis, Zaria Taylor, and
Tyree Rush. Editing was done by Dennison Bradford. Thank y'all
so much for joining me again this week. I look
forward to continuing this conversation with you all real soon.
Take good care.
Welcome to the Therapy for Black Girls Podcast, a weekly conversation
about mental health, personal development, and all the small decisions
we can make to become the best possible versions of ourselves.
I'm your host, doctor Joy Hard and Bradford, a licensed
psychologist in Atlanta, Georgia. For more information or to find
(00:32):
a therapist in your area, visit our website at Therapy
for Blackgirls dot com. While I hope you love listening
to and learning from the podcast, it is not meant
to be a substitute for a relationship with a licensed
mental health professional. Hey, y'all, thanks so much for joining
(00:58):
me for session three ninety four of the Black Girls Podcast.
We'll get right into our conversation after a word from
our sponsors.
Speaker 2 (01:05):
Hi, I'm sir John, a celebrity makeup artist and visionary.
Join me for this special January Jumpstar episode designed to
help you make twenty twenty five your best year yet.
Speaker 1 (01:27):
Whether it's a soft beat or a met gala, glamor moment,
putting on makeup can inspire confidence and unleash the inner
Baddy within many of us. Welcome back to another installment
of our January Jumpstart series, designed to make twenty twenty
five one of your best years yet. You want to
grab a notepad, a mirror, and maybe a little setting
(01:47):
spray as we explore how beginners can kickstart their makeup
journey while not forgetting that true beauty lies within. Joining
me for this conversation is the artist, creative director, and
makeup mi shro Sir John. Sir John is the visionary
behind iconic looks for legends like Beyonce, Naomi Campbell, and
Serena Williams. More than just a makeup artist, Sir John
(02:09):
is also a creative director, of business, executive, and TV host,
all of which he does while inspiring others to celebrate
true individuality and curate a beautiful, holistic lifestyle. During our conversation,
Sir John takes us through his journey of becoming a
makeup mogul, shares some of his favorite makeup hacks, including
a few Beyonce approved tips, and emphasizes the importance of
(02:31):
developing a personal relationship with makeup that's undeterred by trends
or societal pressures. If something resonates with you while enjoying
our conversation, please share with us on social media using
the hashtag tvg in session or join us over in
the Sister Circle so talk more about the episode. You
can join us at community dot therapy for Blackgirls dot com.
(02:52):
Here's our conversation.
Speaker 2 (03:03):
I love your hair.
Speaker 1 (03:04):
Thank you, thank you so much. I'm having a good
one day hair twist out. It doesn't always turn out
that way.
Speaker 2 (03:11):
Okay, okay, but no, but like, so what does it
do after this?
Speaker 1 (03:14):
Well, if I twist it back up tonight, it just
gets bigger and bigger, which is what I love. Yes, yeah,
but the twist out sometimes comes out too tight on
day one, too.
Speaker 2 (03:23):
Tight on day one. Yeah, I was seeing a hack
on tektalk. But do you use like anti frizz and
then an oil and all that kind of stuff?
Speaker 1 (03:30):
No, I use just an oil, but I don't have
anything anti frieze. Maybe I should incorporate that because your hair.
Speaker 2 (03:34):
Is natural, right mm hmm, it'll keep that curl powdern
in there longer without it being like your day three,
if that makes any right.
Speaker 1 (03:41):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I know exactly what you're talking about.
Speaker 2 (03:43):
Yeah, so, like an anti frish serum would be dope.
And also, like, okay, I got so many questions do
you use that's.
Speaker 1 (03:49):
You're already giving me advice. I love it.
Speaker 2 (03:52):
Do you use the steamer?
Speaker 1 (03:54):
I do not. My beautician does use a steamer when
I go, like every three months, So but would you
suggest more frequently?
Speaker 2 (04:02):
Yeah? So guess what. Guess who has one? Tracy just
came out with the first at home steamers, Like, you know,
I didn't know how. I'm like, I was sitting next
to Angela rod We should probably put this on.
Speaker 1 (04:12):
We're already recording.
Speaker 2 (04:13):
Okay, okay, So we were out of dinner for Sergio Hudson,
who's a great friend of mine, sitting next to Angela Rye.
We're talking to Tracy and so everyone's talking about how
much they love the steamer. And so I didn't know steaming.
I've been seeing it, but I didn't know how amazing
it is for hair, especially if you have curly hair,
because the moisture needs to travel right up the follicle.
(04:33):
So at home steamer is going to be like your
jam on your days off or when you want to
bring your curl pattern back to life or whatever that
looks like. And I'm want to use it. I'm like,
can I turn it around and use it on my
face too?
Speaker 1 (04:44):
I mean why not?
Speaker 2 (04:45):
So?
Speaker 1 (04:46):
Yeah, thank you thank you for that. I appreciate this
little pre.
Speaker 2 (04:50):
Just jump right in, right up, right in.
Speaker 1 (04:53):
Yeah, so we are already getting acquaened. But I would
love for you to share with the audience, what's your
earliest memory of me make up? Maybe it is a
family member of like putting makeup on, or like the
first time you actually had a brush.
Speaker 2 (05:05):
My earliest memory of makeup was my mom really, because
grew up with a single mom, always seeing her go
into the bathroom, I understood self care as a child
because she needed a moment for herself. Sometimes she'd liked
to take baths even though we had shower, or once
she was getting herself together to go somewhere or do whatever,
even though it was a quick routine, I just knew
(05:25):
that moment changed her. So even if it was a
ninety second face or whatever, I felt like she was
different when she came out. And so that was kind
of my first entry point into like the transformative power
of beauty or makeup. And I would say mascara was
her things. She was always a mascareco. She was a
beautiful it still is, but I always thought she was
just so beautiful. So this mascara, this black stuff she
used to put on her lashes would always make her
(05:46):
just a bit more like Diana Ross. But I would
say also the first time I picked up a makeup brush.
I went to school for art in art history since
I was six years old, and so the first time
I picked up a makeup brush was on accident. I
was in Atlanta, was going to school for a second there,
just for a very short time, and one of my
friends who was a model the makeup artist canceled on
(06:06):
her that day for her shoot. She was shooting a
catalog and she asked me could I paint her face
and do that kind of thing? And so I was like,
what do you mean, Like do you want me to dislike?
I have no idea this is a job career. Even
though I followed the supermodels a new fashion really well,
I didn't know that being a makeup artist was something
that was a trade. Even the photographer who loved it,
(06:27):
and he asked me to come back the next week
and do the same thing for like three hundred dollars
three hundred and fifty, I want to say, And at
the time, I'm like, you want to pay me again?
So yeah, that was my first makeup memory. Of Oh
my god, this is fun and I can do this
and it's easy money. So I organically got into the business.
Speaker 1 (06:43):
Yeah, so you were literally painting like her face was
your canvas.
Speaker 2 (06:48):
Canvas canvas, and all faces are canvases. We're all storytellers,
whether you're a hairstylist, a makeup artist, an interior designer,
or DJ, We're all storytellers at the end of the day.
And so every time I go to work or start
to storyboard something for a client, I always start to
think about everything is a fresh canvas, and how can
we bring some secret sauce to that day, to that routine,
to that show, super Bowl, whatever that may be.
Speaker 1 (07:10):
So, how would you say your relationship to makeup has
really changed and evolved throughout your career.
Speaker 2 (07:15):
Wow, that's a really good question, Dank. What's while is
that I'm going to iHeartRadio soon. I'm just actually signing
a deal right now.
Speaker 1 (07:22):
Well, welcome to the iHeart family.
Speaker 2 (07:24):
Oh yeah, oh yeah, yeah, okay, okay, okay, come on,
doctor Joy. So yeah, I love those guys. And so
what's been really interesting is talking to a few people
about you can lose the magic. And when I say
lose the magic, There have been moments when I kind
of left makeup and win It's windows or doing the merchandise,
eating for Burdoff Goodman and Henry Bendall's in New York.
(07:45):
I was a mess merchandise Raguci for a while because
I was just like, Okay, well, let me just leave
this makeup thing alone and do something else that I'm
passionate about, which is home in interior. It followed me
in a bigger way, which is that time meeting Pat
McGrath's assistant and going to Europe and started working with
Charlotte Tewbury and the whole cascading. It's a fashion idea,
but I started to evolve and change when your love
(08:08):
of what you do can change when things like contracts,
licensing deals, agents get involved. So if you have any
friends who are in a creative space, whether they are dancers, singers, guitarists,
really talented people, their love of their art form, at
some point they have to find it again because you
may lose it. The brilliance or the beautiful nature of
(08:31):
what got you out of bed in the morning may
change when all of these other things they enter the
cipher or answer the fold. If you will so I
think the goal is too Like Aretha says, rock steady,
and how can I rock steady and still love what
I do or still love the art form? And I
think it's just more or less. How can I not change?
But how can I evolve as an artist? So I
(08:51):
think that as long as we honor the form of
how we are introduced to the business and try to
quiet the noise down, because it can be really noisy
at times, and you can lose yourself, You can lose
your sense of what's your why I came into this business. Also,
before Instagram, before social media, Twitter was like a baby,
I guess. So seeing all these things happen in the
(09:12):
era of YouTube and the TikTokers and the art of
influencers really starts to make us all redefined. What do
we love about it? And what do we have to
contribute if you.
Speaker 1 (09:21):
Will, and what would you say has helped you to
kind of regain your love? At this point, you.
Speaker 2 (09:26):
Don't need permission. You need a reminder at times to
be in your full self, to remember what your secret
sauce is. So like remembering what my secret sauce was
and what I love to do and what's so unique
about what I do when I get to work. It's
the thing that is my guide in life. I love inspiring.
We're healers in some way. We're always working on someone's
crown chakra. We've given so much to our clients, to
(09:49):
fashion directors, to beauty advisors, to the people, to the
masses in so many different ways, so you can actually
be drained. It can really drain you at some point
working as a professional hairstylist or makeup artist, even a star.
I look at Law recently, you know, I interviewed Law
for the Naked Beauty podcast, and you know he talks
about fatigue and what fatigue looks like when you're constantly
(10:09):
in service to someone or the people, And so I
had to think about what I love about the space
that I'm in. I've been so blessed to inspire so
many people coming behind me and continue to hold doors
open that were not even thought to be there. And
so I think that's the goal for me, is to
start to create avenues or ways to redefine the landscape
(10:31):
of what it means to be a makeup artist.
Speaker 1 (10:33):
Thank you so much for sharing that, and you know,
I really appreciate you talking about the burnout and like
the fatigue, because I think some people would look at
what you all do and it's like, it's so glamorous,
it's so fun, and but there's an incredible intimacy that
you are cultivating with your client. People talk about it
as defacto therapists a lot, right, Like, because you're very
intimate with your clients. What would you suggest in terms
(10:56):
of maybe newer or younger professionals in the space around
how to set boundaries on protecting their energy.
Speaker 2 (11:02):
That's a really good question. Who So, I would love
to dive into what does a boundary mean? At first? Right? So,
a boundary what that looks like for younger creatives is
where does the line stop with what I am here
to give people? How much I should be available, how
much I should be of service. You can give of
yourself to clients until you're blue in the face, and
talent or companies they'll just take, take, take, and you'll
(11:25):
never know when Hey, this is the line that I
have for myself. And I think the more mature we
become in our careers, the more we have an idea
of hey, I can only show up in this way.
That's what a boundary you can look like I can
only show up if I have this much support from
you guys taking care of an assistant or making sure
that my assistant comes there in our early in preps
so my day is easier. A boundary might be the
way you travel, or how you want to fly, or
(11:47):
how you need to fly so you're actually able to
give your best self when you get to work. So
I think boundaries can come in many different directions, but
I think it comes into what will allow me to
feel more whole when I show up. Maybe that's hey,
I can't work more than a twelve hour day. Maybe
it's like I have children now and I have to
honor the fact that I need a break every six
(12:08):
hours for thirty minutes to check in on my new
born baby in terms of a FaceTime, whatever those things
may be. There might be incremental little moments throughout your
day or your routine, but you'll know. And also, boundaries
look like I would say, they come in the form
of at this big grown age of mine, we have teams,
we have people a that we have to pay and
take care of. We take care of villages if you will,
(12:29):
and all the big makeup artists I know all the
big stylists, the ones who are known by first names only,
they employ a lot of people and that inspire a
lot of people at the same time. But who's taking
care of these guys? And so I look to the
agents or a manager to really understand what it's like
to take care of talent. And I'm gonna keep it real.
I'm Gonnakeep. I don't say this often, but even though
we are not like the big movie stars, if you will,
(12:52):
we're not boxed office hits, but we're often on huge
agencies with talent, or we're up against basketball players and
movie stars. But we're still talent at the end of
the day, and we need to be protected. So I
think that as I'm talking to my peers right now,
as long as you guys have breath in your bodies,
it's our job to campaign for not just ourselves, but
what it looks like to advocate for yourself in the
(13:15):
most diplomatic way possible. As I talk to a lot
of younger creatives who happen to be black bipoc too,
that whole BIPODC thing, we're gon we're gonna shlve that
for a little while right now, we're back to that
capital b okay. And I always tell them you have
to advocate for yourself. You don't have to assimilate to
any culture. You can still be in your full self.
I love my blackness, but your ideas have to translate well.
(13:37):
And so when I say translate well, it's like knowing
how to go into a room or a large set
in front of people who might be really intimidating to
you guys you might have seen their careers when you
were younger, or figure out how can I go in
and advocate for myself in a way that honors the
thing that we need to make this job happen. But
I don't know how to talk to these people who
I respect so much. And I think the goal is
(13:58):
this is the takeaway is like what can you do
in this conversation to make sure that we can all
have a win here? So what does a win look like?
A win looks like the person who I came with today,
she needs better lighting. It's only going to be not
just about for me, but the client isn't going to
be happy. Maybe this won't be actually really great for
the fashion director or when you bring this back to
the magazine, so can you help me figure out what
(14:19):
does a win look like for us right now in
this conversation and let's reverse engineer and work our way backward.
Speaker 1 (14:24):
Thank you, herened. You really drop some gems in some
things for people to write down in their notebook there,
so I really appreciate it. More from our conversation after
the break, but first a quick snippet of what's coming
up next week on TVG.
Speaker 3 (14:37):
And I think we've also got to engage a fear
of being seen. I think that's a big piece to it.
I know you probably see this also in the community
to cultivate, like you know, everybody, I don't want nobody
in my business. Everybody got to be in all your business.
But sometimes in this culture of Instagram perfectionism, we're trying
to always reject this image that it's not real. We're
trying to like hide behind image. And if that image
becomes a prison where we cannot connect authithically with people
(15:00):
care about We're so afraid of people seeing our blemishes
and our flaws and that the reality is those things
make us beautiful. But in order for people to really
care for us, wet lean into the fear of being
cared for and the fear of being seen, which a
lot of us have, right, You know, we got the
nice pictures up, but who am I really? I think
as the big pieces I think about.
Speaker 1 (15:18):
You know, I love this story that you share at
the beginning about your mom and being in the bathroom
putting on her mass scare because I think that that
(15:41):
is what makeup is for a lot of us, right.
It is like a confidence inducing kind of moments to
really lean into parts of our identity that maybe we
aren't always so comfortable sharing. Can you talk a little
bit about the role that makeup has and like helping
to improve our confidence?
Speaker 2 (15:54):
Absolutely? I always talk about how beauty is are feeling.
I always taught what beauty is supposed to like throwing
up under this impossible idea of what beautiful is, you know,
looking at the supers. I was obsessed with naom Me Campbell.
She actually ended up being my first client as well.
Or all of these beautiful people, the Hailey Beerrys. Remember
the campaigns back in the nineties, the hair boxes, all
those things of what it's supposed to be like, and
(16:16):
there weren't really so many different ways of seeing beauty
that was diverse, that looked like us, that felt like us.
So I always say that beauty is a feeling, because yes,
it's something you can see, but how does it make
you feel when you see that something that's beautiful or
someone that's beautiful. I'm more concerned about from a takeaway
perspective or a mental health perspective, what does it leave
(16:36):
on you? Does it leave a good impression, does it
leave you inspired? And so beauty should move the needle
for us. When we see a beautiful garden, you know,
when we look at, you know, a really gorgeous home,
and so taking beauty out of the context of people,
we look at environments or anything that provokes you to
feel something emotionally, it is a feeling. So I always
talk about, yes, it's great to look great, it's great
(16:57):
to get adult hair cut, it's beautiful to have nice
new outfit, But if it doesn't make you feel better inside,
then it's just a mass it's just a band aid.
It's temporary. Like I was saying earlier, hopefully if you're
doing the temperature check within yourself, checking in or how
do I feel what's coming up for me? How do
these people make me feel? How do these spaces allow
me to feel Do I feel home? Do I feel present?
(17:17):
I think that's more of the goal when it comes
to beauty than anything that happens to be a visual
or aesthetic.
Speaker 1 (17:23):
So how cool is it that you have something on
your vision board or you talked about, like looking up
to somebody like Naomi Campbell, and then she becomes your
first client. What do you feel like you learned in
working with her?
Speaker 2 (17:33):
If I have one thing one superpower is that I'm
a really good manifestor, and I know, for good or bad,
if I think about something that's not too good, it's
going to show up too. But that goes back to
this old saying of whatever you give emotional attention to
is your reality. If you always talk about your secd broke,
you're going to always be sick and broke, But if
you actually talk and know it's coming. I knew I
would see her, but I just didn't know how. And
(17:54):
so I remember I was in Milan at the DG
show and Pat tapped me on the back and asked
me to pack up. So I was like, oh, damn, Well,
maybe I put too much foundation on someone or I
don't know what I did wrong. And she's like, no,
I need you to go to the Bugari Hotel for
nail me. And I was like, oh man, okay. So
I was like, all right, cool, and I did and
(18:16):
it was easy, and we started working together for a
while a while, and I still see her and I
think she's just an amazing fortified soul in our business,
if that makes any sense. And it's like the absolute
picture of what it looks like to be black and great.
When you have a manifesting win and this is the
homework for a lot of people who are watching it,
and you could be at any part of the game,
it's always a refresher of like as long as you're alive,
(18:37):
have a manifesting exercise, like can I pull something forward?
Can I pull this parking space forward a little bit
by just visualizing me parking this car? And so I
do that often as an exercise to see, hey, do
I have a shortcut with source? Energy? Source with source?
And so that's what it looks like. And as a creative,
when we're storyboarding for big projects, Grammys or campaigns, all
(19:00):
we are doing is manifesting ideas. We're starting to visualize
a world that we want our clients to live in.
When I storyboard and pull these images together or this
is what it could look like, guys, and I do
a pitch to a company, all it is is me
having an idea or creating a world that I want
to bring people closer to, or that I can imagine
on someone or this car company or this magazine. I
think the goal is to continue to have great imagination.
(19:23):
I think imagination is key, and then after imagination is faith.
Speaker 1 (19:26):
So you talked a little bit about this, but what
do you really see as the connection between mental health
and makeup.
Speaker 2 (19:32):
I always tell people that when you buy a handbag,
it doesn't cover a childhood'scar. You know, when you buy
a jacket, it doesn't reaffirm what you love about the
hair you were told not to love. So when I
think about beauty, it's so emotional because it starts to
go back into the archives or who we were, how
we want to see ourselves, and who we know ourselves
to be and who we can be. It's a little
(19:53):
bit of past, present, and future all in one. Idea
soothing something from the past, and it doesn't have to
be always an insecure It could be something that you love.
And then what does this look like for me right now.
And then also the fun part about it is, yo,
I might pull a dude later with this lip, you
know what I mean? Or with these lashes, I might
be able to like battlement, get fluid out. I don't know,
(20:16):
but I think that what's beautiful about beauty When I
say beauty, makeup, hair, nails, Listen, you can be eight
or eighty eight. It's so inclusive. It's the original inclusive area.
Fashion hasn't always been so inclusive to us. Even though
we make style, we make our own style. So I
love what it does for confidence. And you could be
naked in the mirror getting ready and put it on
T shirt and jeans and love the way that your
(20:38):
hair is done. I love the way your hair is.
We start this conversation around your hair and that doesn't
need anything else except you. So that's what I love
from a mental health standpoint. Doesn't move the needle. I
was talking to a few people, oh a lot of
people actually, especially men. I don't bulleting beauty. That's crazy
for you to say that. Okay, cool, but if you
go get a shave, when you go to the barber,
(20:58):
how do you feel when you leave the barb. When
you spray on fragrance, that brute, whatever you spray on,
how does it make you feel even if no one
else is looking watching? Does it move the needle for you?
Does it put a pap in your step? And if
it does, you're affected by beauty? Can I ask you
a question?
Speaker 1 (21:14):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (21:15):
Good, so, doctor Joy, do you find that beauty is
healing in any way?
Speaker 1 (21:19):
Yeah? I love what you just said. I'm like, Wow,
this sounds very therapeutic, right, because you're right, it can
cover scars, but it also can enhance the things that
we love about ourselves. And I do think that there
is something very grounding about just the ritual of beauty, right,
Like it can help to kind of start your day.
It can really help you get situated in time and please, So,
I think that there are lots of healing properties of
(21:41):
beauty for sure.
Speaker 2 (21:42):
You know what's wild is I work with Beam so
Black emotional and mental health and so one thing I
love about Beam is that they go into barbershops. What's
the first point of healing for our community salons? And
they actually train and certify barbers and now artists a
hairstylist on what is it like to sue or give
tools to your community when they start to unpack, because
(22:04):
a lot of us still believe in only the church
and no therapy, even though that's a whole other conversation.
But I love that there's a beautiful entry point, and
let's go exactly to where that entry point is. So
I'm always a huge fan, and I'll do anything that
being asking me to do.
Speaker 1 (22:18):
I love that. I love that. So you mentioned earlier,
just like how your career has had such a longevity,
you started before all of the Instagram, TikTok all the things,
and I do think that has impacted our idea of
beauty right, Like a lot of us are looking at
tutorials and like we want to look like this person.
How would you suggest people kind of redefine beauty for
(22:38):
themselves without being influenced by all the things we can
see on our phones.
Speaker 2 (22:44):
Follow people who don't make you feel good about yourself,
and that's in all different directions. If you follow an
account that makes you feel like, you know what, Damn,
I just don't have it together. I might like the
way that this person has a place setting for all
their guests every week, but it's just an impossible level
of perfection, can't live up to and follow that person.
Whatever's easier for you to align with, and it's soothing,
(23:05):
that's the goal. You should follow soothing accounts. But I
would say that at the end of the day, it's like,
what do you have that you want to bring to
the world, and then let's work backward. I think that
we are in a space where it's really difficult to
keep up with algorithms. It's difficult to keep up with
an idea of what's trending or our peers. And I
don't believe in competition. I believe that we all should
(23:27):
be winning and we shouldn't look to the left or
to the right. So for everyone who's listening, I think
that my little secret formula is I stay in my
own lane. I try to be as ignorant to everything
else that's happening as possible, and then when I come in,
I don't have the worry or the anxiety on how
to show up because I don't know what everybody else
is doing. And so I think that's really important to us.
(23:48):
One thing I want to say to black creators is
that black creators, we are the original influencers. I didn't
make this up IRMANI set this the other day from
culture con We are the original influencers, and I think
the goal is to train our teams and people who
need to monetize those things just what our impact is.
But don't ever doubt your impact in any room, in
(24:10):
any table, in a conversation. And you have also nothing
to prove. So I think the goal is how can
you show up as your organic self? But as your
organic self? My challenge to you would be is what
does your organic self look like twelve months from now?
Twenty four months from now? Set a critical path. I
want to say, a critical path. Every business, every brand founder,
they have for the next twenty four months. This is
(24:32):
my goal. We're going to release that in twenty four
months or this whatever, and then they work backward. So
who do you see yourself as or want to be
in two years? And then if you have to look
at incremental quarterly check marks of what do you do
to get there? Who are you every six months? If
that makes any sense, that is how you can engineer
your life in a really organic way.
Speaker 1 (24:52):
I love that. That feels like a perfect segue for
my next question because the conversation we're having today is
a part of our January Jumpstart series. So you know,
one of the goals sometimes people have at the beginning
of the years, like I want to get better at
like doing my makeup. And so I love that you
have shared that because I think that that can be
a way to kind of forecast like, Okay, in a year,
this is what I want to have achieved with makeup.
(25:14):
But before we get to makeup, I think we have
to talk about skincare. So it's not like the role
that skincare has even in good makeup policemen.
Speaker 2 (25:22):
Oh yeah, skin is the brick and mortar of any routine.
It's the basis, it's the foundation, it's the ground zero
because good skin is scaffolding. And so what is your
relationship like to your skincare? And so when I say that,
it doesn't have to be really complicated. You don't have
to use tons of things that are going to trip
your skin. But also there's so many black founders who
have found ways. For example, there's one called brown Kind
(25:45):
right now. Brown Kind addresses uneven pigmentation. I love. There
is a company called Caramel Secret Tone, and it's a
little bit on the more lux of the line, but
it's all stem cell BioResearch because we're biology, we're not botanical.
And so I'm thinking about ways that you can protect
your melanin as Also, we need to use an SPF.
Black don't crack, guys, but it can sag. Okay, I'm
(26:07):
gonna say it again. Black don't crack, but it can sag.
And so how am I creating a barrier to make
sure that everything I have underneath doesn't oxidize. We think about, oh,
I don't need an SPF because I have melanin, I'm black,
or whatever, this and that. But you're using a chemical moisturizer,
You're using something with a slight retinal or maybe a
glycolic in your toner and not realizing those things are
(26:29):
going to ravage your skin under the sun. Maybe even
your foundation might have too much of an active ingredient
that you need to counteract. So I do say, let's
protect your skin with some factor, if you will. But
to that point, yes, skincare is really important. And then
also looking at your diet, what are you eating? From
a holistic standpoint, we are the original wellness agriculture came
(26:50):
from US Indigenous people, Bipop people, black people. We have
to think about our relationship to source, to the earth.
We've always been here, but now it has new names.
So are you juicing? Do you have things in refrigerator
like kale? Kale has six hundred and fifty percent envitamin K,
so it speeds up any sluggish circulation. When you look
in the mirror, if you see dark circles most of
(27:10):
the time, it's slugg a circulation. Beats. I don't like
to eat beats, so I take dried beats and I
just don't make some water and just chug it. Don't
even know I'm tasting. Listen, if you could drink whiskey,
you can drink a green juice, you know what I mean.
And it really repairs in my skin. It makes sure
that oxidizes and cleanses my blood from anything, you know,
if I had too much fun that week. So there's
so many things that you can take that will impact
(27:33):
your overall complexion as a whole before you even get
to a foundation.
Speaker 1 (27:36):
Got it? So, can you give us a couple of
steps of what we can have in our makeup routine,
especially for beginners, Like what are some steps we should
be following?
Speaker 2 (27:45):
So for beginners, complexion is key so having a beautiful complexion,
and I would say a complexion looks like making sure
you have a really great toner after you invest it
in something that's going to even out any uneven pigmentation.
Maybe a little bit of a lactic acid moisturizer. Those
are the things that will really smooth your skin, and
then you'll use less foundation. Maybe a tinted moisturizer is
(28:06):
really key, Maybe a light version of foundation. I like
to use agg sponge or a wet beauty blender shutout
to rehand from beauty blender. Love fer. I'll wet it,
I'll squeeze it out, and I'll take foundation on the
back of my hand, whether it's a liquid or a cream,
and I'll start to stiple it in areas that a
knee coverage and dialing it down where you don't. So
dial up the coverage where you do need it, and
really give yourself like a barely their makeup where you don't,
(28:29):
but you want to invest in the right tone of
complexion or make sure that you're shape matching, so you
can really do that effectively. I love a liquid and
I also love a cream, but the way I approach
makeup is always from an editorial standpoint, like magazines, so
it has to look like it's barely there or not
there at all. For me, I obsess over that part.
And then once you have complexion down in a good concealer,
concealer is bombed. Sometimes I'll skip foundations and I'll just
(28:51):
go straight to concealers to travel with because they're easier
for me. I can mix them with a moisturizer and
make them to a buttery tent instead of like such
a heavy look brows, look at the hair on your face.
Your brows and your lashes are really important because they
make you expressive. Whenever you see pictures of yourself when
you're a baby or younger, we always have these full brows,
full lashes, and it creates so much emotion when we
(29:13):
were talking or in pictures, and so dialing back into
that space of giving yourself really beautiful brows, really gorgeous lashes,
taking down lashes that look too crazy. Everybody knows. I
used to work in a strip club in Queen's shout
out to Astoria thirty fifth and Steinway rivieras Hey girls,
but leader stripper lashes for the PM or whatever have
a different wardrobe of lashes for different outfits. For a
(29:37):
daytime when you're wanting to be a bit more sophisticated
and elegant, A heavy lash, a chunky lash just is
too much contrast for the look or the idea that
you want people to take away. From an editorial perspective,
I feel like, when you're having fun and you want
to party, go for more lash, guys, But other than that,
please dial them back that way. My only makeup foot,
Paul is let's take it back on the lashes. Just
(29:58):
a hair a hair, it's gotten out, it's gotten out
of control. It's gotten out a control.
Speaker 1 (30:04):
More from our conversation after the break, you kind of
alluded to this, but can you talk about undertones because
I feel like this is the thing that kind of
gets people tripped up. What are undertones? And like how
do we use that to know like our sheep?
Speaker 2 (30:24):
So you have to think of am I olive? Or
am I really warm? Under your complexion? And that doesn't
have anything to do with when you're laughing and you're
blush or you turn red, but knowing your undertone and
I think the biggest challenge is to go on the
search for not just a foundation color, but texture at
your house and your make a wardrobe wherever you are.
You should have a wardrobe of complexion. So I would
(30:45):
love for people to think about, not only do I
want something in my complexion that's matt, Maybe I want
to be matt in the T zone and glowy everywhere
else because I have combination skin for me. Maybe we
want to be luminous in the winter so your skin
can look breathable and sexy. Maybe in the summer you
need a bit more control of the oil. So having
your color but multi textures is going to be the
(31:06):
next level of how to shop for foundations. And it's
easier now than ever. You go to Sophora, Alta anywhere
that has a library of colors, don't just look at
the color, look at the texture. But I'm going to
leave it up to everyone to start to lean into
their undertone because it's so personal. Some people love to
be warmer to cancel out how alive they are, and
(31:26):
I've seen that as well, So I don't want to
assign or be prescriptive to one undertone. But I'm going
to tell you texture and having multi textures is going
to be the name of the game. You'll thank me
for it later, trust me.
Speaker 1 (31:37):
So when you say different coverages and different textures, that
sounds like maybe different lines.
Speaker 2 (31:42):
Oh yeah, yeah yeah. So if I went to one
of my homegirls' houses or my sister's house, they're invest
in about three to four different foundations. So maybe one
is a stick that gives you fuller coverage, right, maybe
it's an HD stick. And then one is a liquid
that is medium coverage, but it is a sheer dewey
that you might need to set with a powder. And
then maybe one happens to be very very sheer, like
(32:05):
a tentate moisturizer, but it gives you a veil of protection,
maybe has a little bit of sunscreen side of it.
And then also you have a thicker, fuller coverage concealer
to give wherever you need to spackle something, you know.
So I think having an array or an army of
the same color possibly but different textures is going to
give you like this new idea of how to look
at your face and strategically highlight, strategically glow, strategically be
(32:28):
matt in certain areas, almost like a makeup artist would do.
And that's before you start sculpting or anything like that, And.
Speaker 1 (32:34):
Is sculpting a must have kind of thing or is
that like an advanced skill?
Speaker 2 (32:38):
Sculpting is the evolution of contouring, right, And you don't
have this contour like Sam Fine or anything like that.
But I will say it's having a deeper foundation. Maybe
it's your summer foundation stick, you know, the one that
you use in August, you're using in January to just
buff in the temples of your forehead and under your
cheeks and under the jaw line. You want to create
a little bit of dimension. It's almost like taking a brush,
(32:59):
a blush brush, and create where would the sun hit
my face right now? And so that little bit of
dimension takes away this flat finish that you never want
after you apply your foundation. After you apply your foundation,
your face may be too flat and you want to
make it three dimensional again.
Speaker 1 (33:14):
So what role does blush have in the overall makeup
litp Oh my god.
Speaker 2 (33:18):
Love blush. It's my favorite product. Blush is my favorite.
Speaker 1 (33:21):
Really is there such a thing as too much blush?
Speaker 2 (33:24):
There's such things too much blush? I will say, But
you know what it's all about how you place it.
I like to use cream blushes and then I'll set
them with a loose powder. I would like to use
cream blushes, and I'll set them with a powder blush.
And older women, mature women, the women I'm talking about,
the golden girls. Old ladies know the power of blush
because it makes you look healthy again. If you don't
have anything else except a tinted moisturizer on right, and
(33:45):
clear lip glass or clear gloss. I said lip glass,
I brought it back right. You break out some blush,
Just break out a little blush. Especially women of color,
you can handle more color on the cheeks and then
the forehead. Don't be afraid to hit the forehead with
a little blush, a little bit on the high planes,
cheek bones, a little bit chin hit some in your
cupid's bow, this clavigal area. Sorry, you're a decolotage. It
makes it look like you just had sex. Like if
(34:07):
you see a little rush of heat right here, heat
on the chest translates to I just had sex. Guys,
you heard it here, you heard it here first. So
I think that blush is one of the best things
that have when in a hurry. It just makes you
look rich and healthy and alive.
Speaker 1 (34:23):
M So, can you confirm for us. Do makeup products
really expire?
Speaker 2 (34:28):
Like?
Speaker 1 (34:28):
How long can we actually keep my makeup?
Speaker 2 (34:30):
I'm the wrong person that ask as I've had some
shadows since the nineties and I'm not gonna let them
go because they could discontinue. And when things are a
powder form, you can keep them a lot longer. Any
pressed form of powder is not at risk of giving
you germs the way a mascara will, which only has
a ninety day they say ninety days. I keep mine
for about five months, So mascara, keep the mascara for
(34:53):
not too long a half a year max. Because you'll
acquire germs in your own mascara, even if it's only
you wearing it every day. Anything that to moisturizing, maybe
a lipstick might develop some kind of weird stuff over
a couple of years. I'm not going to tell you
guys on that one because I cheat.
Speaker 1 (35:10):
So what suggestions would you give to people for how
to not be afraid to make mistakes? Right? Like when
we are first learning how to do makeup, we might
do too much, do too much blush or whatever. How
would you suggest people kind of let go of the
fear of kind of getting it wrong to just start practicing.
Speaker 2 (35:25):
I think the goal is to do one thing at
a time. Really well, no one's a beginner anymore. No
one's a beginner anymore. It's too much education TikTok. There's
too many tutorials entertaining ones too. Like I started watching
Jackie i Aina back in the day and I was like,
it's entertaining now to watch and do this along with yourself.
So I would say, start to figure out your face.
(35:46):
If you have an idea how to apply or what
to apply, figure out on my face. I want to
go higher here. I want to create a bit more
structure here. So knowing your face is the level of
artistry that we're going into next, not just how to
apply it. Also keeping wet foundation sponge, keeping that nearby,
so if you feel like you play something too heavy,
just go back in and touch it. Go back in
(36:06):
and it's happened somewhere and you'll be in a really
good place. The last hack I have Beyonce does this,
My sister does this, and I didn't even realize they
both do this all the time, is that after you
get your makeup done one day, or if you feel
like you did your makeup and it's a little too
stiff or you know, hit that shower, but with the
door open it will look so organic and then you're like, oh, okay,
(36:27):
I can do this. So if you ever feel win
in doubt, don't be afraid to take a shower, but
don't let any of that water hit your face. That's
a whole different heroin chic look that I don't think
you guys are going for.
Speaker 1 (36:38):
I don't so what hecks do you have for us
on picking lipsticks?
Speaker 2 (36:44):
So A coined the phrase. It's called dopamine glam right,
And I'll give you a little quick history here. So
when I look at the late seventies, the anarchy, the
rebel that was coming out of London, the punk hair.
You remember when you can get stiffer in the rock.
That anarchy was fashion's reaction to what happening in society.
So it was a push against the machine. Rebel, rebel, rebel.
(37:04):
The music was a conveyor of it. And then if
we go a bit ten years later, if we go
to the nineties, I look at the goth era and
it was the anti fashion, anti glamour. Everyone wanted to
dress down. You know, the country was going through recession.
We were in a war during the Second Bush Era,
and so the fashion's reaction to that era was let's
be anti glamorous, anti anything. Kurt Cobain, Kate Moss was huge.
(37:26):
It was about grunge. Grunge was the name of the day.
And so now we think about fashion's reaction. Fashion's reaction
right now, I believe is how do I make myself
feel something better? There's so much happening right now, and
I think from a mental health standpoint, I don't think
we've ever had our nerves tried in this way, and
so it's so individual now. It's not about dressing for
someone else. It's not dressing up for your girlfriends or
(37:49):
to get a man. It's about what am I going
to do to make myself feel happy. So to answer
your question about the lipstick choices, I believe that that
is a choice I would never want to take away
from anyone. Right now, go and find something that makes
you feel like. It doesn't matter if it's popular right now.
It could be like a shiny, frosty lipstick from ninety four,
okay with brown line or chestnut brown line. If it
(38:10):
makes you feel great, rocket own it, do it. And
I don't want to assign a trend. I'm anti trend.
I've just never really been a guy who is about trends.
And I'm also anti celebrity. I don't think you guys
should look to runways or red carpet or anybody else
for how you should look or feel. You should only
look in the mirror on what's going to make you
feel or give yourself a pep in your step.
Speaker 1 (38:31):
Love that, love that. So where do you look for inspiration?
Speaker 2 (38:35):
I look for inspiration in so many different areas. I
love home, I love interiors. I'm obsessed with home interiors
and environments and moving things around. I was a guest
host on the Naked Beauty podcast shout out to Brook
de Vart, and I was obsessed with building a set
for every guest. I do this at home. It's my
happy place. My happy place are creating rooms, creating a
(38:56):
world for my guests or for the people. That's what
I love to do. I love to feed people and
cook like I saw the Martha Stewart documentary the other day,
and you guys should watch it. Man, It's so deep,
it's so good, and that's kind of me. I love
creating a world and not just to please people. I
want to share my world with everyone else, and so
that is what gives me inspiration. In general, I'm not
(39:16):
really inspired by fashion or beauty. I'm an art school
with it. I also go to museums. I'm more inspired
by things I can bring back to a conversation from
the moment, or going to see an exhibit at the
Met or the Google Hunt, the Lachma, and so when
I've been in rooms with talent celebrity and the biggest
of the biggest photographers and directors, what I can do
is I can always go back on my art history
(39:36):
references and pull something forward. And so that makes yourself
a destination of creativity. You'll feel comfortable having something to say.
So don't look at other makeup artists and beauty professionals.
Always go back two hundred years. Go get inspired by
something that no longer exists. I love what's happening with
the Met Gala, the dandy black tailoring. I'm so inspired
by the era because that's how I dress now. I
(39:58):
love suits, I love tailoring. So just get inspired by
everything else that has nothing to do with the space
you're right now.
Speaker 1 (40:04):
Okay, so you mentioned cooking for your guests. I gotta
know what your go to ish all bad.
Speaker 2 (40:08):
I make seven cheese mac and cheese baked a few
times on the top. It's an art form for me,
like I actually lose myself. I'm not even there. I
check out a little bit. I'll have a souv too,
So I suv ribs for like twelve hours, thirteen hours,
fuse in the bag with all these different things. Sometimes
I'll do a jerk one or I'll do like a
pesto one. And then once you take these ribs out
of the bag after twelve hours of like searing, and
(40:30):
then you throw them on hot grill for like five
you put them in a big thing some forks, and
then let people go to town. You know I love food. Yeah, yeah,
I love food. I love food.
Speaker 1 (40:42):
I love it. So as we close, what affirmations would
you offer to people who maybe are feeling a little
unsure about makeup or I feel like they can't quite
get it right. What affirmations would you offer?
Speaker 2 (40:54):
I would say the affirmations I have right now is
to lean into things that make you feel whole. It's
a personal things. When you're in the car, sometimes turn
off the radio. Don't always listen to music. Sometimes when
I am quiet or steal, as my grandmother used to say,
more will come to me. So be still for a
second and start to figure out who do I want
to be in this moment? Who do I know myself
(41:15):
to be right now? And also when I know who
I am right now, what can I do to decorate that?
What can I do to magnify it, to bring that
to a higher level? And I think that's the goal.
So knowing who you are and just throwing some dice
on it, adding a little something through it is really
where we should all be.
Speaker 1 (41:31):
So where can we stay connected with you? Sir John?
What is your website? As well as any social media
challenge you like to share?
Speaker 2 (41:37):
I'm sir John, that's my real name since I was
born across the all platforms. And then also go back
and take a look at a couple of the Naked
Beauty podcasts. The Naked Beauty podcast Broke Devart, the one
with Law, the one with jackiey in it talks about
makeup so much like in a beautiful way, she unpacked
so much. Didavantis was such a great guest and we
talk about inspiration. So a lot of what we talked
about here you can see in some of the things
(41:59):
we and Ms Tina came on too, So yeah, that's it.
And also, doctor Joy, I'm proud of you because I
love what you're doing, but also I love the perspective.
You're creating a filter or a lens for us to
not just see ourselves, but to fill ourselves. And that
is so amazing, especially right now, especially right now.
Speaker 1 (42:17):
Thank you so much, Sir John. I really appreciate it.
I'm so glad Sir John was able to join me
for this conversation. To learn more about him and his work,
be sure to visit the show notes at Therapy for
Blackgirls dot com slash Session three ninety four, and don't
forget to text two of your girls right now and
tell them to check out the episode. If you're looking
(42:38):
for a therapist in your area, visit our therapist directory
at Therapy for Blackgirls dot com slash directory. And if
you want to continue to get into this topic or
just be in community with other sisters, come on over
and join us in the Sister Circle. It's our cozy
condor the Internet designed just for black women. You can
join us at Community dot therapy for Blackgirls dot Com.
(42:58):
This episode was produced by Alice Ellis, Zaria Taylor, and
Tyree Rush. Editing was done by Dennison Bradford. Thank y'all
so much for joining me again this week. I look
forward to continuing this conversation with you all real soon.
Take good care.
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