February 28, 2025 • 50 mins
Bridget is hard at work on the new season of TANGOTI, launching in May! Stay tuned for more info, and more pre-launch drops here in the feed!
In the meantime, Bridget went on Stuff Mom Never Told You to talk about how shameless big companies like Walmart and Target abandoned their diversity and inclusion commitments in a misguided attempt to satisfy MAGA blowhards (spoiler: it will not satisfy them). Now customers are calling for a national, general, buy-nothing boycott on Friday, Feb 28. Bridget breaks it all down, and explains why she'll be joining the boycott and why she thinks you should, too.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:04):
There Are No Girls on the Internet as a production
of iHeartRadio and Unbossed Creative. I'm Bridget Todd and this
is There Are No Girls on the Internet.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
Hello.
Speaker 1 (00:19):
I have missed talking to y'all so so much, and
a lot of you all have sent me very kind
messages of support. Cance have been a way, so I
just wanted to say thank you. It really really means
a lot to me, and I know that we have
kind of a lot to catch up on, so we're
going to be back very soon with brand new episodes.
But in the meantime, have you heard about the economic
(00:39):
blackout plan for February twenty eighth. So it turns out
everybody is just sick to death of everything rising prices, authoritarianism,
and the quickness with which some companies just abandoned any
kind of commitment to diversity, equity and inclusion work just
because Trump said so. So I joined my friends Samantha
and Annie over at the podcast stuff Mom ever told
(01:01):
you to get into what all of it means To
take a listen.
Speaker 3 (01:09):
Okay, this is Annie and Samantha a of the stuff
I never told you procure if I hurt you, and welcome
to a very special stuff. We never told you. We
were so excited to be joined once again by the
(01:30):
very well read, the very well missed Bridget Todd. We
have missed you so much, Bridget.
Speaker 2 (01:36):
We're so good to have you.
Speaker 4 (01:37):
Oh, you were very well missed.
Speaker 2 (01:39):
I missed you all so much.
Speaker 1 (01:42):
Thanks for having me here, Like, uh, yeah, I used
to kind of rely.
Speaker 2 (01:46):
On shooting the shooting with y'all.
Speaker 1 (01:50):
I'm nice to have that outlet. I've missed it so much.
Thank you for having me here.
Speaker 4 (01:56):
Then it took us twenty minutes to get to the
recording part because of your conversation. I was like, oh, yeah,
we actually need to do things, but I missed talking
so with Bridget. So we need to know all the details.
Speaker 3 (02:07):
Yes, yes, and you, I mean you always this so
much going on right now, and so much in the
technology sector and so so much in so many sectors
that I just have a lot of trust in you, Bridget.
So you have been very well missed. Which is the Yeah,
I think something I just made up right then, But
(02:29):
but I know this is a loaded question.
Speaker 2 (02:32):
How have you been?
Speaker 4 (02:33):
What's been going on?
Speaker 1 (02:35):
If anyone watches Real Housewives of New York, there's a
meme of Derenda saying how have I been?
Speaker 2 (02:43):
Not well, that's that question. Not well, I mean I
have I have gone.
Speaker 1 (02:51):
I had the worst year of my life last year,
and I do want to say, like a big part
of that was Annie and saman that you both really
being such good friends and good collaborators and like really
giving me a lot of space. And so I want
to say like thank you for all the support. And
so I've had a personally rough go and then on
(03:14):
top of that everything else that's happening. It feels like
I went offline and when I came back, the world
was spiraling, and so yeah, I have been experiencing despair personally,
and then I feel like everybody else kind of also
met me in despair, and it's like, oh, we're all
in despair together.
Speaker 4 (03:30):
Welcome, which is essentially crying in each other's arms for
different reasons, but it all meshes together because the world's
on fire.
Speaker 5 (03:39):
Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, and here we are, like yay, Bridgid,
tell us about it, talk to us about this stuff,
Please make say some things.
Speaker 1 (03:52):
Well, we were talking off Mike about how complicated it
is as people who make podcasts and make contact. It's
like you have to find this balance of like not
wanting to severely bum everybody out, and you know, we're
not just people who make podcasts, Like I listen to
podcasts for fun, and I find myself being like, you know,
I can't handle anything real right now, I need to
(04:15):
just distract myself with some fluff. I think I think
we're all both as content creators and as people who
take in content and appreciate media.
Speaker 2 (04:24):
We're all trying to find this like sweet spot.
Speaker 1 (04:26):
I don't know if y'all listening can identify with this,
but I've really been struggling with how much to take
in to not have me completely be spiraling, and how
much to take in to keep me informed, trying to
find that balance.
Speaker 4 (04:40):
Right I think the big conversation is like knowing that
we have a responsibility and making sure like we're not
the complete like we're we can't stop everything, but we
do have a responsibility in witnessing it and making sure
we're calling it out. But at the same time, sometimes
that means that our well being is out the window
(05:04):
when we see too much. What do we see way
too much? And so having that balance of being like, yes,
I'm ready to be refreshed and fight again is so
hard to do what it feels like it's a constant
new fight exactly.
Speaker 1 (05:17):
I saw this post that I feel like really summed
up where I'm at, where it was like, certainly, if
I read one more piece of contact or one more
news article instead of going to sleep, I will feel
totally in control of what is happening.
Speaker 2 (05:30):
I yes, that could have been written by me. Oh
my goodness.
Speaker 5 (05:37):
Yes.
Speaker 3 (05:38):
Well, okay, speaking of we were discussing a friend of
mine who every day is sending me these texts where
I can tell she feels she has no control and
I'm kind of like, you need to you need to
find something else. I don't not all day, not all
the time, this is not good for you. But where
(05:58):
we are going to talk about one of the things
she used to do to distract herself, which was go
to Target the store Target that was like one of
her favorite things, and now she's very conflicted about all
of it. And I know that we're going to talk
about that Virginite.
Speaker 1 (06:18):
Yes, yes, And so I have to say, like shout
out to Annie's friend because her and me both I
there's a target that is very close to my apartment,
it's walking distance to my apartment.
Speaker 2 (06:27):
I will just like walk around.
Speaker 1 (06:29):
Target just for like a scenery change, like the same
way people will be like, oh, take a walk in
the park.
Speaker 2 (06:33):
I'm like, oh, let me see what Target has. It's
a terrible habit.
Speaker 1 (06:36):
Y'all can call me out, like totally totally own that
it's not good behavior. But I heretofore have loved Target,
Like there's just something about walking around, like they really
like get the people who are chopping there. And I
think that's one of the reasons why the whole thing
with Target and DEI is it feels personal to me.
(07:00):
It feels kind of heartbreaking because listen, Walmart stores like that.
Speaker 2 (07:05):
It's like they're not stores where I.
Speaker 1 (07:07):
Would imagine there are people who see me and like,
you know, get me as a shopper. Target feels occupies
a very different space in my consciousness. So when I
hear that some effery is happening with Target, I really
don't like it.
Speaker 2 (07:22):
Does that make sense?
Speaker 4 (07:24):
You definitely have to go through your list of like,
well all that I can't go there anymore. I can't,
and your list starts dwindling, especially when you like for
the longest time, we kind of not champion because there's
still a corporation at the end. But for a while
they were doing some things that were like, Yay, finally
you're doing some good initiatives at least bringing on great
(07:44):
products for a diverse group of people, which is apparently
the problem, and actually standing up for it. So it
seemed so to come back and be like, what the
hell exactly that?
Speaker 1 (07:57):
So I want to get into all of that. But
for folks who are I know what's going on. The
Trump administration kicked off with a grip of executive orders
I guess, like targeting wokeness through things like overhauling DEI initiative.
Speaker 2 (08:10):
So this happened in the federal government.
Speaker 1 (08:12):
Like currently right now, folks who work on anything even
tangentially DEI related within the federal government have been placed
on leave. I live in DC, and that that is
like what's happening with federal workers both in the District
of Columbia and nationally is like a whole other conversation.
It really is horrible and I think it will effect
(08:34):
impact all of us. I think we will all be
less safe because of it. So just wanted to name that.
But when it comes to DEI. It is not just
the public sector, because Trump also issued executive orders meant
to quash DEI programs in the private sector as well.
He directed agency heads to drop list of publicly traded
companies to investigate their DEI programs. So this is not
(08:56):
a totally new thing. I know that when I am
was on stuff I'm ever told you a while ago,
we were talking about the Supreme Court decision back in
twenty twenty three about affirmative action. So another sort of
side effect of that Supreme Court ruling was that some
of these big private companies started reassessing the legality of their.
Speaker 2 (09:15):
Programs after that ruling. So it's not totally new.
Speaker 1 (09:18):
But Trump being in the White House and sort of
starting off his administration with, you know, signaling all of
this pressure on DEI programs really has taken it to
a new level.
Speaker 3 (09:28):
Yes, And I feel like a lot of companies have
come out of the woodwork, not just companies but other
like universities and all this, and they're like, yeah, we'll
just get rid of that as quickly as possible. It's
so ready to be like yep, okay, didn't want it gone, yes, So.
Speaker 1 (09:44):
Like I mean so like, as somebody who covers technology,
I have really I'll say, not shocked, but disappointed when
it comes to tech companies. How quickly they were like, look, gone,
gone gone. After having to sit through years of listing
to these companies talk about or maybe even lie about
the way that they support women, LGBTQ people, black people like,
(10:08):
and I think with technology they have the power to
shape so much of our world and so much of
our culture that what they do really can set the tone.
And so yeah, it just sucks that we spent any
time at all pretending that these companies gave a crap about.
Speaker 2 (10:23):
Any of us.
Speaker 1 (10:24):
And then how quickly they're like, oh, just kidding. So
I'll run through a little bit of where we're at
with some of these companies. So Facebook just immediately went
along with Trump like we'd be here all day if
I listed all the ways, but just a taste, you know. Obviously,
they rolled back through DII programs, they rolled back fact
checking immediately, they lifted restrictions on saying things like quote
(10:47):
women are property on their platforms. And so if that
is an attitude that you happen to hold, that women
are property, you can say that on Facebook all day long,
and it is not a problem. You also saw a
Facebook CEO, Mark Zuckerberg doing things like ordering the removal
of tampons from all men's bathrooms in company offices.
Speaker 2 (11:06):
So these weird things.
Speaker 1 (11:08):
Where as Mashville put it, this decision was not about
cost cutting or efficiency. It took effort and served no
practical purpose and sent a clear message about the company's
shifting priority.
Speaker 2 (11:20):
So these things that are clearly like.
Speaker 1 (11:22):
They're not about cost cutting, they're not about, you know,
making the company more efficient. They're just about making it
clear where they're at, which mission accomplished, because I really
have a very clear understanding of where Facebook is at. Zuckerberg,
of course, went on a bunch of podcasts dressed like
a recently divorced nightclub promoter and talked about how Facebook
needs more quote masculine energy at their companies now. Now, again,
(11:46):
keep in mind, this is not a company that Time
magazine describes their current workforce as almost seventy percent mail.
Speaker 2 (11:52):
So I guess that's like not mail enough. We need
it to be more male.
Speaker 1 (11:56):
I don't know, I don't know how much more mail
you can get other than like one hundred percent, But okay,
we're just.
Speaker 4 (12:01):
Kind of like the opposite once again of being like,
you want to be really masculine, but a part of
your masculinity is like being impressive to women. So were
you being so impressive towards each other? Like bro okay,
which I kind of missed the days where we were
talking about him and fighting with Elon.
Speaker 2 (12:19):
I know you would go.
Speaker 4 (12:19):
Back to those days, But how did it happened to that?
Speaker 2 (12:21):
So he had a window where people didn't hate him.
Speaker 1 (12:24):
And what's funny is that I was just reading this
study that was like, oh, remember when Mark Zuckerberg like
changed his look and was trying to go for like
a softer, gentilour approach. Turns out everybody still hates him.
And I was like, oh, who even Dido? Who even
did the study? You're like, what's this's the study? But
there is a study that apparently that little window where
people didn't hate his guts did not last and had
(12:45):
no lasting impact. So he really squandered that tiny sliver
of goodwill that he got from people from that like
one week or whatever. People didn't completely hate his guts.
Speaker 4 (12:54):
Right, I think the whistleblowers in his life just really
was not having it, so I also missed them me.
Speaker 1 (13:00):
Too, Francis Hogan, where you at if we need you?
Speaker 4 (13:06):
Okay, speaking of big companies, we know like there were
several big CEOs and executives that were aligned and excited
to do exactly what Trump has been wanted to do,
including Amazon, right.
Speaker 1 (13:27):
Yeah, they scaled back their DEI programs pretty quickly.
Speaker 2 (13:32):
Google.
Speaker 1 (13:33):
I will say two companies that did not immediately scale
back to EI or Apple and Microsoft. Both of those
companies kind of reaffirmed their commitment to DEI. Companies are
so companies. So I don't want to be like giving
them too much ra rock credit. Microsoft has been very
chummy with Trump, But I do want to give credit
where credit is due on DEI specifically because I do
(13:54):
think like it's a choice. You know, one of the
big companies that did not scale back DEI, that will
talk more about in a bit as costco. Right, And
so these companies, even despite these executive orders, these companies
don't have to immediately comply. Immediately complying with these executive
orders is a choice, right, And so I wouldn't even
(14:15):
like a lot of people have described this moment as
sort of a mask off moment, especially when it comes
to tech companies, I wouldn't even say I agree with this.
I don't think that these companies have like necessarily not
wanted to do inclusion work all along.
Speaker 2 (14:33):
I don't think that that.
Speaker 1 (14:34):
I think the people who run these companies will just
align themselves with whoever is in power and whatever is
the favorable position at the moment. And so I don't
even think it's a mask off moment. Like I don't
think Mark Zuckerberg is showing his true colors.
Speaker 2 (14:48):
I don't think he has true colors.
Speaker 1 (14:49):
These are people who not who don't have genuine values
or backbone. And so if you don't really have if
you don't really value anything, it's not really a mask
off moment because your value is just power and money.
Speaker 4 (15:01):
Right. And it's interesting because we've had so many conversations
about places like Google and tech companies like them, and
how their initial setup was kind of like, we're the
cool nerds that you want to come work for. We're
the ones that's offering you know, unlimited PTO, but we
really don't think you should take it. We're the ones
that's bringing in women of color to be leaders, but
(15:22):
not really because we want to fire them. Because they're
talking too much and giving too many suggestions. Like it's
interesting to see how quickly that they were like, oh,
finally we don't have to pretend to be the cool
nerds and just be uh at the alpha males that
we've been training to be.
Speaker 1 (15:37):
Essentially, So, I actually think you're spot on, and I
do think we really need to have more conversations about
the cultural dynamic of some of these tech leaders and
some of these tech companies, because I think it is
how we sort of got into this mess in some ways,
because you know, if you think back to like, you know,
think back to the day the early days of platform
(16:00):
was like Instagram, the early days of iPhone technology and
the people who made it occupied a very specific place
in our cultural popular imagination. Right, it was Google offices
that looked really cool, that had pinball machines and open offices.
Speaker 2 (16:16):
Right. Google's motto used to be don't be evil.
Speaker 1 (16:18):
Until they dropped that motto officially in twenty eighteen.
Speaker 2 (16:22):
I think they might have just taken off the don't right.
Speaker 1 (16:23):
Maybe it's now like a little bit evil for a
tree is fine. I think that we gave them so
much space and so much runway to be these cool
nerds who we're going to be using technology to improve
all of our lives, and we kind of trusted that
that's what they were doing. And I think that because
of that trust, now when we check back in and
(16:44):
it's like, wait, are you guys actually still invested in
building a better future, and they're like, now, we're invested.
Speaker 2 (16:50):
In making money through exploiting you.
Speaker 1 (16:52):
Actually, I think that's where we're at, And so I
think it's really you're so right to bring up the
sort of cultural dynamics that are running some of these
companies and in tune shaping our understanding and attitude around them.
Speaker 4 (17:05):
Yeah, I mean, I'm not gonna lie. One of the best,
most like immediate examples was TikTok TikTok with that's like
trying to fight the government. I'm here for you, We're
here for your voice and where we want to represent
for your First Amendment right, and then being like, oh,
we love Donald Trump, He's gonna save us. Let's give
money to him. Like it's such a switch quick turnaround.
(17:26):
We were all like, oh, we were rooting for you
for a split second, like we were kind of doubting
you and a few things, but now like, oh, they
were such a quick turnaround of exactly what we saw
play out, except it took a little while longer.
Speaker 1 (17:39):
I had the exact same feeling, Like I remember thinking, oh,
TikTok Ceo is like this young guy, he's so savvy.
Speaker 2 (17:46):
Blah blah blah.
Speaker 1 (17:47):
How quickly he turned heel right, So like, don't trust
any of these leaders. I don't care how savvy they look.
I don't care how young they are. Like tech, a
tech company will break your heart. A tech company will
exploit you, take your money, get rich off of it,
and then expect you to champion them like a damn
luminary because of it.
Speaker 2 (18:05):
Absolutely not.
Speaker 4 (18:07):
I mean again, Target, For a split second, really we
really were like, Oh, they're bringing in black women own products,
and we want to cheer that on. They're standing up
for the LGBTQ plus community. We love that, you know,
really seeing like their pain beyond their minimum wage and
people are being like, we're excited, and then it turned
to this.
Speaker 2 (18:28):
Yeah, so let's get into it.
Speaker 1 (18:29):
So on January twenty fourth, Target announced they were going
to be rolling back their DEI initiatives, including programs to
foster and promote black owned businesses in its stores. This
is following Trump's signing of the executive order ending DEI
programs federally. So they sent around a memo by staff
member Kira Fernandez, Target's chief Community impact and equity officer
(18:50):
and a black woman herself. In this memo, the company
said they were going to stop conducting external diversity surveys
and submitting information to the Human Rights Campaign Corporate Equality Index,
which evaluates corporate policies on LGBTQ plus inclusion. The memo said,
quote throughout twenty twenty five, will be accelerating action in
key areas and implementing changes with the goal of driving
(19:11):
growth and staying in step with the evolving external landscape.
And so just like what you were saying, Sam, this
is particularly notable because Target really did seem like one
of those retailers that was making and signaling investment in
things like inclusion, especially after twenty twenty. So Target their
(19:31):
headquarters is based in Minneapolis, where George Floyd was killed.
So in twenty twenty, Target reiterated its racial equity Action
and Change initiative, which involves things like anti racism training
for employees and prioritize hiring and promoting black staff, and
they really look to grow the number of black owned
businesses at Target. In twenty twenty one, Target pledged to
invest two billion in black owned businesses by the end
(19:54):
of twenty twenty five as part of this program. And
so here's the thing that I always like to talk
about when it comes to things like DEI and inclusion.
These programs don't just exist because they're like the nice
thing to.
Speaker 2 (20:07):
Do, which they are. They're good business. They make companies money.
Speaker 1 (20:11):
These companies exist to make money, and it turns out
that inclusion is good for business. Target's chief executive officer
Brian Cornell told Fortune's Leadership Next podcast in twenty twenty
three that all of these like inclusion and diversity focused
initiatives quote, fueled so much of our growth over the
last nine years. So they are definitely cashing in and
(20:33):
making money off of traditionally marginalized people as a consumer block.
Speaker 4 (20:38):
I wonder how close to that goal were they when
twenty twenty five happened, like just giving those billions out
of investments, Like were they actually that closed or maybe
I wonder conspiracy theories, like they were nowhere near something
like let's just roll it back and pretend like it
never happened because we're not going to meet this.
Speaker 1 (20:55):
I mean, that wouldn't surprise me whenever, So this is
like like a hot tip for them. Whenever a company
is like, we pledge to do X, y Z thing, right,
it's always good practice to follow up because half the
time they've done nothing and they're just like not counting
on anybody following up.
Speaker 2 (21:10):
So it's like they can say anything.
Speaker 1 (21:11):
They could say we pledged to do whatever, and it's
like if if no one's following up, they can just
get all the good pr and goodwill without actually doing
the thing that they voluntarily said they were gonna do.
Speaker 4 (21:22):
Right, no one asked for these numbers.
Speaker 2 (21:24):
You brought this up.
Speaker 3 (21:25):
This I'm sure you've run into this before. Bridget as
a medium that depends on advertisers sometimes, like during like
Pride Month, they'll be like, this company is gonna do
this and do this and do this, and I'll be like, okay,
tell me how silence. I never hear it from them again,
Like hmm.
Speaker 2 (21:47):
Yeah, I wasn't expecting. I wouldn't have said that. I
thought you were gonna like ask a follow up.
Speaker 3 (21:54):
Basically, people to donate to your companies that you're gonna donate, Like, well,
what are you gonna do though?
Speaker 4 (22:02):
What you They're gonna give them moneys to those organizations
and then write it off as their taxes as if
they donated the money and not the customers. Obviously, any
come on, so naive. I am honestly like that whole
rolling up of like the change, and then everybody's like,
don't do that because they're using this as a tax break.
(22:25):
I was like, Oh, yeah, that's sell bug. Oh damn it.
Why are so evil?
Speaker 2 (22:30):
I mean, like that's the thing.
Speaker 1 (22:31):
Like I want to be clear, it's not like I'm
It's not like.
Speaker 2 (22:34):
Like I ask.
Speaker 1 (22:36):
Someone who is very critical of things like capitalism. I
didn't think Target was really my friend or really my
ally even when they did this stuff. So it's not
I'm not expecting any corporation or any company to like
truly meaningfully be an ally. But I do think these
companies that go out of their way to signal to me,
you know, as a black woman consumer, that like we
(22:57):
care about you, we we like understand that you are
are fueling our profit margins, so like let's try to
be aligned with like giving you the customer experience that
you want. I do think that matters, and so especially
a company like Target. I don't know if folks really
understand the role that Target plays, especially for Black women,
(23:19):
like you know, back in the day. So look, if
you like, back in the day when I first grew
my hair out natural, there were not a lot of
mainstream stores where you could walk in and find a
well stocked natural haircare aisle. Target was one of the first, right,
and so it really I think went another way to
(23:39):
curry a lot of favor with Black women as a
consumer base because of that kind of thing being like, oh,
what is it that you actually use, what is it
that you're actually looking for? How can we fill the
niches in your you know, shopping situation. I think Target
did that very well, and I think it really positioned
them as a place where they were signaling to the
people who actually give them money, like, Hey, we see y'all,
(24:02):
we know what y'all need, we know what we're listening
to you. As the cut points out, the retailers Black
owned brands span categories from home to apparel and beauty,
including hair care brands the Dough Camille Rose and the
viral mel and beauty brand the lip Bar. These brands
fill avoid in the market, making products for various skin
tones and hair textures available. For example, the Dough has
(24:24):
its viral curl defining moves beloved by the natural hair community.
So it really did play a particular role I think
in a lot of black women's shopping diets.
Speaker 3 (24:36):
Yeah, I mean, and it was, like you said, a
mainstream store to do it, And it felt I don't know,
we like you've said, we have said in their companies
they're not allies. But it felt nice to be like, Okay,
I can go here and this place is with me.
(25:00):
He kind of gets me. This seems like a it
doesn't feel as bad that I'm going here, you know,
I don't feel the same guilt maybe right somewhere else.
Speaker 4 (25:11):
I think this also brings into the conversation about the
fact that they need to like erase this as in
like take this out because of why so this is
obviously a bigger conversation and trying to make a publicity
stunt essentially just like bringing off products and bringing saying
(25:33):
like okay, so diversity in equity and inclusion in these
what does that mean exactly? And in this conversation. It's
pretty much saying, Okay, we will now exclude a certain
group of people that were excluded previously before this time,
and by doing so, we're going to make white supremacts
(25:55):
feel more comfortable because they were uncomfortable with I don't know,
shopping with people of color, like such a conversation like
they but why why is this so important that Target
needs to do this, Like they were making money off
of this and they're so afraid of or I guess
maybe they are just white suppromus one of those two
things in order to satisfy a group of people who
(26:20):
didn't even know it was a thing. For like the
longest time. People were just like, oh, what is this
new stuff? Okay, moved on, except when people finally said
this is black oman and they're like, oh my god. What.
Speaker 1 (26:29):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (26:30):
I mean, that's a really good question.
Speaker 1 (26:32):
I honestly think that in this moment, it's just about
signaling alignment with Trump and the new administration. I think that, like,
you know, Target has been making good money off of
marketing toward marginalized people, right. I mean, y'all remember when
the last time that Target was in the crosshairs of
(26:54):
a lot of extremists because they had a well stocked,
robust pride section and for pride things like that, like
and Target caved on that. Like I will say, like,
so I think it really just illustrates that these companies,
whatever is in power, whatever is the like, they don't
actually have values or backbones, and we shouldn't necessarily even
(27:18):
be expecting them to.
Speaker 2 (27:19):
They'll they'll just cave and bend to whoever is in power.
Speaker 1 (27:22):
And what makes it even more frustrating is like after
they they will do that, after they signaled that they
want to be more aligned with these communities. So Chantel Powell,
who is a black entrepreneur who makes a deodorant for
kids called play Pits, which was stocked at Target, she
put it really well. She said, quote, it's frustrating corporations
(27:43):
jumped on the bandwagon to support black businesses when it
was trendy. Now that it's easier to discard us, that's
what they're doing. And so yeah, I just don't think
that these companies give a crap. Really, They it's all posting,
it's all signaling, like they don't really have any kind
of like values genuinely stick to or a firm like
in moments of you know, upheaval. The thing that you
(28:06):
can always go back to as your north star is values.
Like as a contact creator, I had to have a
whole conversation when Trump took power of like, well, what
are my values and what am I doing in this
moment to actually serve the people that I want to
be in community with. When you when you have values,
that is always your north star. These companies do not
have any value, so of course they're gonna blow wherever
(28:27):
the wind.
Speaker 4 (28:27):
Blows, right, They're they're gonna do the bottom line, which
there's so much again, like in this conversation about how
who was easily discarded first? And this is all about
the virtue signaling as they want to stay because as
robust as their like stock was, it wasn't you still
have to like purposely find it. And it was a
(28:49):
shock to see it, like it's I remember the many
times were like, oh that's cute. Oh look it's you
know a black owner or a black creator who did this.
That's amazing because it's one out of one hundred, you know,
to see it was notable because there wasn't that many.
So even the most like diverse products were just literally
one out of fifty one out of one hundred, Like
(29:11):
it still wasn't.
Speaker 1 (29:12):
I remember back when extremists were targeting Target because of
the pride.
Speaker 2 (29:16):
Stuff and the LGBTQ stuff, people would get upset.
Speaker 1 (29:19):
Because Target sold chest binders right for trans folks, and
it's like, okay, so you don't need a chest binder.
Speaker 2 (29:27):
Why is it so horrible that like.
Speaker 1 (29:29):
Out of out of what one hundred, It's like when
you go into the underpant section of Target, ninety nine
point nine percent of garments are designed for SIS people
and they have one product for trans people, and it's
the end of the world. Like, how is that really
the biggest complaint that you can make right now?
Speaker 4 (29:47):
Right? I mean our sports bras alone, yes, are just
as offensive to me sometimes, but anyway, why would you
uh no, in all of those statements. It really like,
as much as we want to tell that they were inclusive,
they weren't. And the amount of hate that people will
(30:09):
give in order to make a sleep again, we know
that haters in general to want to create controversy, so
they would go out trying to look for anything that
they're like, this is controversial, this is this? Why does
this have to be this and half the time again
it was misinformation or disinformation and being like this black
product for the black community was often created by white corporations.
(30:31):
Like we saw that many times.
Speaker 1 (30:33):
Absolutely absolutely so when Target announced their intention to pull
back from these initiatives, people were not happy. Some like
Minneapolis Council Member Jason Chadez and Strike for All, which
is an advocacy organization run by former Senator Nita Turner,
called for a boycott of Target in response, which is
currently still going on. This was a little bit tricky
(30:55):
in that Target backing away from DEI does not mean
that like black and brown owned companies are going to
be pulled from the shelves. And so you saw a
lot of black creators and black entrepreneurs being like, well, wait,
if you boycott Target and you're not going to go
to Target, it will hurt us even more because that's
less people who are buying our items from the shelves.
(31:16):
Maya Smith, who is a black woman and the founder
of the Dough the haircare brand, shared the statement on Instagram,
saying pulling black dollars from these retailers doesn't hurt the
corporations as much as it hurts the brands you love.
It also feeds into false narratives that we're only here
because of DEI initiatives, not because of the countless sacrifices
and creativity we've poured into creating a lasting impact on
(31:38):
the textured hair category. Through the dough, you might say like, oh, well,
I'll just buy directly from this brand rather than buying
it from Target. But Powell, the founder of Playpits That
Kids deodorant company, said that buying directly online might not
actually be so helpful for some of these black owned brands.
She said, big box retailers are a predictable revenue stream.
(32:00):
Online I might make two thousand dollars one day and
two hundred the next, but with Target, I have a
consistent flow of income. It's also a convenient opportunity for
my customers to shot my products. For moms, convenience is key,
and so I get where these creators are coming from.
I do want to spotlight that one of my favorite
black creators, who has the brand Oh Happy Danny, immediately
(32:23):
announced that she was cutting ties with Target and like
phasing herself off the shelves as soon as Target made
this announcement. But you know, I do understand the complexities
here because it is not a clear cut situation. And
I don't want to say that I have the answer,
but I understand that people want solidarity from some of
(32:45):
these black creators that they see on the shelves at Target.
Speaker 2 (32:48):
But I also.
Speaker 1 (32:49):
Understand that, hey, if you're a black creator and a
black entrepreneur, you do have a harder time compared to
your non black counterparts, right, And so you know, people
are basically saying, like, well, why should I be expected
to miss out even more because of a decision that
Target made.
Speaker 2 (33:03):
I can really understand both positions.
Speaker 5 (33:06):
Right.
Speaker 4 (33:07):
It's one thing to say we're gonna boycott McDonald's and
Starbucks and the such, but doing specific things with these
creators who have brands, it's it is hard. Like we've
talked about the fact that also it's really hard for
individuals in general to try to figure out what's a
good company because all these grocery stores or all these
stores they have something, whether it's anti union, whether they
(33:30):
don't pay their employees enough, or whether they're rolling back DEI,
or whether they you know, gave to the Republican Party
or Donald Trump themselves. It's really hard to try to
do conscient just buying when you are stuck. And again,
we talked about disabilities previously about how it's also impossible
to not do delivery service for a lot of disabled people,
(33:52):
even though like corporations like Amazon is awful, however they
give access to those who can't go well, Like, it's
such a hard conversation about what to do and how
to truly support without hurting the people you're trying to support.
Speaker 1 (34:07):
Yeah, I've really been struggling with this in my personal
life as well, Like I am trying to boycott Target
and Amazon. But you know, easy for me to say
as an able bodied person with discretionary income and no kids, right, Like,
if you're a busy new parent or somebody with a disability,
(34:30):
I don't regard to you anything that you got to
do to get through the day. But I know that
I personally do have some wiggle room, right, And so
what's been interesting to me is I'm I wouldn't say
I'm boycotting any particular company for any particular stance. However,
I'm really just reassessing the role that these companies play
in my habits more generally, right, Like Amazon is a
(34:53):
terrible company, they are terrible for the world in so
many reasons, and Amazon's owner Jeff Bezos is incredibly buddy
buddy with Trump. When Trump was inaugurated, you saw the
whole line of techholes, Mark Zuckerberg, Jeff Bezos. I live
in DC, Jeff Bezos owns Amazon. Jeff Bezos owns where
(35:13):
I get my healthcare one medical he bought that. Jeff
Bezos owns my local newspaper, The Washington Post.
Speaker 2 (35:19):
He owns that.
Speaker 1 (35:20):
Jeff Bezos owns where I do my grocery shopping, Whole Foods,
he owns that. Like how much of my life does
one billionaire get to control? And so it's not even
about one specific policy, It's more that I am trying
to reject that entire dynamic.
Speaker 2 (35:35):
And one way that I'm.
Speaker 1 (35:36):
Doing that on a small personal level is just trying
to buy shop small, shop local, my local places when
I can, and shop less in general, Like do I
need to be consuming so much?
Speaker 2 (35:49):
Who is this supporting?
Speaker 1 (35:50):
Who am I empowering with my dollar when I go
in and mindlessly buy something I don't even really need.
Speaker 2 (35:56):
And so I don't think.
Speaker 1 (35:57):
It has to be some kind of a big boycott. Necessarily,
you can just through small ways desides. You know, I want,
I want to participate in this kind of an economy
less and less, and I just think that's true for
so many people.
Speaker 4 (36:11):
Right, But yeah, we still have to keep in consideration
and like as a whole who has the privilege to
do that? You know, we talked about you and I
and Annie have reliable cars that can take us places.
I said, Annie has a dot dot dot because her
car's getting there.
Speaker 1 (36:29):
Annie question MARKMN her Honda is still running.
Speaker 4 (36:34):
Not a sponsor. This is kind of going off topic,
and I do want to ask what your thoughts are
because I've seen a few posts saying like February twenty
eighth is a blackout day where people being told don't
(36:57):
buy anything, don't consume anything. Let that be the day
that no one buys things. If you can, are those
things like are those things effective? Does that do where
one day a lot more people do not consume and
so therefore like kind of make a dip in that day?
Are things like that a viable way of protesting some
of these evil corporations?
Speaker 2 (37:16):
Oh? I think absolutely.
Speaker 1 (37:18):
So It's funny that you bring this up because I
was just reading a post on Reddit by that witchy
lady was like three why's, and they said. The title
of the post is to those saying boycotts won't work.
From a former retail worker, and they write, I keep
seeing misinformation being spread to the tune of boycotts don't work,
No one cares. They'll be back at targeted no time.
(37:40):
I'm here to share my experience as a retail worker.
I've worked retail at four different chains, and I asked
that other retail workers chime in.
Speaker 2 (37:46):
They absolutely have the ability.
Speaker 1 (37:47):
To work because these businesses care way more about their
numbers than the average consumer who has never worked retail realizes.
When I was working for corporate owned women's clothing store,
we could hourly updates about meeting our goals literally typed
into our ears. Numbers got reported to the team daily.
Everyone knew when we were hitting our goals and when
we weren't, and when we were pushed to sell, sell, sell.
I was just the tiny little cog in the machine.
(38:09):
But if that's what's being said and pressured onto me,
imagine what these big wigs and their boardrooms are talking about.
I think that the February twenty eighth economic boycott has
the power to scare them. Why because I saw my
direct managers ubsess over these numbers on an hourly basis.
Please join the economic boycott on February twenty eighth. You know,
money talks, which is why they are trying so hard
to tell you that it doesn't matter. They're doing it
(38:30):
because it does matter. So that's just one retail worker's opinion.
But I got to think that they're on the money
with something because you know, especially in a time where
we don't feel like we have a lot of power
or a lot of agency or a lot of voice,
our money, our spending power, our economic power really does
have weight.
Speaker 2 (38:50):
Like that is power.
Speaker 3 (38:52):
Right.
Speaker 4 (38:52):
I'm glad you read that because I go back and
forth on again understanding what is effective, on what isn't,
whether boycott is or isn't effective, Who is able to
do what and participate in who is being hurt by
some of these protests. Of course, I don't give a
shit about the corporation who know they're evil. I'm not
talking about them in general, but like again, like the
(39:13):
entrepreneurs who have products in these different companies that I've
also seen them talk about Amazon that like that does
help with cells, It gives me money, like it gives
us whatever ratings or whatnot, which again I'm not touting Amazon.
I paused my membership and all of that. I've done
it because I was like, I feel too dirty because
I was depending on it so much, because I didn't
want to go out to target and actually walk about
(39:33):
and see people. But all of that in conversation of like,
if this does work, then we need to be shouting
it louder, because yeah, we want to at least be
effective and doing the things as effectively as possible if
we are able to do so, and being prepared for it.
And honestly, outside of a couple of TikTok posts, I
haven't seen much about it.
Speaker 2 (39:54):
Have y'all the economic blockout?
Speaker 4 (39:57):
Yeah I have.
Speaker 2 (40:01):
But I am like pretty deep into a lot of
like buy.
Speaker 1 (40:04):
Nothing, sham the cogs of capitalism in these small ways
online spaces. But I guess I'm curious if my friends
who were like not in those spaces, if they're seeing
any of it at all. People listening might be like
there's an economic boycott on February twenty eighth being planned.
Speaker 2 (40:21):
I've never heard of it.
Speaker 4 (40:22):
You haven't, So that's the question is, like how how
widely is it being spread. Hey, y'all, there's an economic
blackout on the twenty eighth of February. If you're listening
to this on the day is released, Yeah, the part
we're podcasts. I don't know when this is going to be.
Speaker 2 (40:38):
So here's a little bit of information I just found.
Speaker 1 (40:40):
So, according to CBS, behind the boycott is a group
called the People's Union USA, a self described grassroots organization
founded by John Schwartz, a fifty seven year old dad
from Queens, New York, who said that he's been promoting
the consumer blackout for wests on social media. The People's
Union says it has no political affiliation, but focuses on
quote fairness, economic justice, and real systemic change. So the
(41:02):
call to action, or rather in action, is asking that
American consumers refrain from making any purchases at major retailers
on Friday, February twenty eighth. The protest comes as people
continue to endure rising prices on everything from food to gas,
to housing and new utilities, epitomized by the soaring cost
of eggs, which in January averaged four to ninety five
a dozen. So, yeah, that is the information. If you're
(41:24):
interested in participating. You can go online and find out more.
But I understand because like again, like it for me,
it's really not about any one policy or store. It's
like I do not want to continue to participate in
an economic system that just continues to exploit me. And
I understand that, Like we're in capitalism, so what am
(41:46):
I gonna do? But like I can do in small ways,
I can opt out of that system more and more,
like I've been really you know, it's it sounds so
small and stupid, and in some ways I understand that
it is. But like I've been and growing herbs on
my balcony, so when I need fresh herbs, I'm not
running to Target. I just have them on my balcony.
I've been cooking more at home. I've been like, rather
(42:08):
than going on and buying new stuff, I'm like using
free groups and.
Speaker 2 (42:12):
Like, you know, things like that, of like I just.
Speaker 1 (42:14):
Want to participate in this economy less and less because
it is just so exploitative, right, And.
Speaker 4 (42:22):
Just coming back on track onto all the information that
you are bringing us, like this is that conversation once
again when I come back in the confused era of
like DEI and why it's so offensive to people and
why they think is so harmful when in actuality it's not.
Speaker 1 (42:39):
Well you know who definitely doesn't find it harmful, and
that's Costco. So the same climate that had companies like
Target abandoning their DEI initiatives and their inclusion work so quickly,
Costco exists in that same environment and guess what, they
didn't cave on anything.
Speaker 2 (42:56):
So to be.
Speaker 1 (42:57):
Super clear, I know I've said this before, but DEID
and inclusion is not just like the right thing to do.
Speaker 2 (43:02):
It is profitable.
Speaker 1 (43:03):
It makes companies money, you know, just like that Target
executive saying that supporting an inclusion in twenty twenty made
the company money. Being able to cast a wide net
when you're doing things like hiring and being able to
attract all different kinds of people who want to spend
money with your brand is good business. So Costco got
approached by the Trump administration and was trying to be
(43:25):
They were trying to pressure Costco into dropping their DEI programs,
and Costco basically was like, no, our programs are fine.
Speaker 2 (43:30):
Y'all can kick rocks.
Speaker 1 (43:32):
Nineteen Attorneys general led by Texas Attorney General Ken Paxton,
which by the way, he's a real piece of work.
Speaker 2 (43:40):
Google him if you've got a saberamanut because he's a
real piece of work.
Speaker 1 (43:42):
And Iowa Attorney General Brenna Burdair are currently trying to
pressure Costco into abandoning their DEI initiatives. They sent Costco
a letter saying, with three hundred thousand employees, Costco likely
has at least two hundred thousand employees who are potentially
victims of a legal discrimination because they are white, Asian, man,
or straight. Even if only a fraction of those employees
were to file suit and only some of these proved successful,
(44:05):
the cost to Costco could be tens of billions of dollars.
So that's like pretty clearly a threat to essentially extort Costco.
Costco's board's response was, our board is considered as proposal
and believes that our commitment to an enterprise rooted in
respect and inclusion is appropriate and necessary. The report requested
by this proposal would not provide meaningful additional information to
(44:27):
our shareholders, and the board thus unanimously recommends a vote
against this proposal.
Speaker 4 (44:36):
First of all, I hate they included as but I
know they do, but like I'm still like aah it'stop that.
But all these things I will say on a good
note because there was a moment where I was iffy
with Costco for a split second. I was like, I
can't go nowhere because there had an almost union strike. However,
before it could go down, Costco followed the lead and
(44:58):
actually worked with the unionized members and gave them the
raises that they deserved. So kudos. It worked out. It
took a little pressuring, but I'm glad to know that
they're not anti union, so that is a plus BT dubs,
because that's one of the big questions. Like the last
five years, I feel like I've just seen more and
more conversations about whether it's DEI or it's anti union,
(45:20):
and I'm like, why do you have to be so
mean to your people's But like seeing that they were
able to actually be on top of it is nice, nicest,
not on top of it, but finally like understanding everything
from every aspect. It felt like, Okay, maybe I need
to buy a freezer from them so I can store
the large amounts of food they sell.
Speaker 1 (45:41):
I mean, I find there one dollar fifty cents hot dogs,
delightful and my late father rest his soul He loved
to brag about how you could return anything to Costco
for cash no matter what. He was like a real
abuser of that policy.
Speaker 2 (45:56):
You know what gotta do, what you gotta do, and
you know, I might.
Speaker 1 (45:59):
I'm saying this because I think that like Costco is
some like idealist crusader. Ally, I'm sure they're terrible in
a million other ways, but I think that they are
a company that likes making money, and they have done
the math and they have probably realized that their DEI
and inclusion policies help them make money. And it seems like, honestly,
I have to say like, it does seem like Target
(46:22):
is experiencing some financial consequences here. To be clear, retail
shopping is down generally in part I think because of
things like inflation and rising prices and economic uncertainty and
like changing consumer habits. But Target and Walmart both saw
their retail numbers fall in the wake of pulling their
DEI initiatives, while Costco did not. Again, I don't specifically
(46:44):
know if this is because of the boycott or because
of DEI, but this is according to retail brew foot
traffic is down at Target stores. According to data from
placer Ai prepared exclusively for retail brew. In the week
that began January twenty seven, foot traffic fell four percent,
fell eight point six percent the week beginning February third,
and three point nine percent the week beginning February tenth.
(47:06):
This was the first drop in traffic this year for Target,
with foot traffic for the first four weeks of twenty
twenty five up between five percent and eleven point eight percent.
Walmart was the same. Meanwhile, Costco has seen traffic rise
for the same three week period, up by five point
eight percent on the week beginning January twenty seven, five
point seven percent on the week beginning February third, and
(47:27):
four point six percent on the week beginning February tenth.
So is this the result of like people boycotting Target,
not going to Target, you know, not wanting to shop
at places that have these kinds of policies.
Speaker 2 (47:39):
I don't know, But what I do know is that
women have money.
Speaker 1 (47:44):
In fact, most financial decisions being made in households are
being made by women.
Speaker 2 (47:49):
Black people have money, Queer people have money, trans people
have money. We spend money.
Speaker 1 (47:54):
We have real economic power, and I think all of
us really have to understand that, and like understand what
that means, that it matters where we put our money,
it matters who we choose to financially support, and like,
and I agree with that person's comment on Reddit that
like the fact that they keep trying to convince us
that it's not powerful, it doesn't matter, should be a
signal to all of us that it actually does.
Speaker 4 (48:16):
Yeah, you're right. With all the misinformation and disinformation they
that we get, it wouldn't be surprising that corporate people
would want us I think this doesn't work, so that
we would stop doing it.
Speaker 2 (48:28):
Exactly.
Speaker 3 (48:29):
Yeah, Like, no, I you haven't hurt me at all,
And secretly they're getting those numbers, Oh no, Yeah, Yeah,
it'll be interesting to see what happens. And I know,
I know for a lot of us, US and our listeners,
(48:50):
it is something that we're all wrestling with these ways
we can make these changes in this system, and there's
so many different factors to it. But yeah, I definitely
where you put your money and who you choose to
support with your money, that's a big one. That's a
big one, very.
Speaker 1 (49:08):
Important, especially now like this is the tapic And again,
just I think I've said this, but I want to play.
Speaker 2 (49:14):
It clearly, like easy for me to say.
Speaker 1 (49:16):
I am a I'm not a parent. I live in
an easily walkable community, you know, I am able bodied,
like easy for me to say. But like, if you're
someone for whom that is the case, you can, you know,
be choosy about how and where you spend your money.
Speaker 2 (49:31):
Not everybody has that luxury.
Speaker 1 (49:32):
And if you are somebody who's listening, who does, that's great,
Like we should be the people who are making those
kinds of decisions.
Speaker 3 (49:38):
Yes, absolutely, well, thank you so much, Bridget. We're so
happy to have you back on. It was so good
to talk with you. Where can the good listeners find you?
Speaker 1 (49:51):
Ah, this has been a pleasure. I miss shooting the
s with you all. And if you want to shoot
the s with me, you listen to my podcast Their
Own Our Girls on the internet or follow me on
Instagram at Bridget Marie and DC.
Speaker 3 (50:04):
Yes yes uh and go do that listeners, And if
you would like to contact us you can. You can
email us at hello at Stuffwenevertold You dot com. You
can find us on blue Sky at mom Stuff Podcasts,
or in Instagram and TikTok at stuff When Never Told you.
We're also on YouTube. We have tea public store, and
we have a book you can get wherever you get
your books. Thanks as always to our super producer Christina
and executive producer Maya and your contributor Joey.
Speaker 4 (50:25):
Thank you.
Speaker 3 (50:26):
Thanks to you for listening stuff I'll Never told you
to production of my Heart Radio. More podcast from my
Heart Radio, you can check out the I Heart Radio app,
Apple Podcast wherever you listen to your favorite ship
There Are No Girls on the Internet as a production
of iHeartRadio and Unbossed Creative. I'm Bridget Todd and this
is There Are No Girls on the Internet.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
Hello.
Speaker 1 (00:19):
I have missed talking to y'all so so much, and
a lot of you all have sent me very kind
messages of support. Cance have been a way, so I
just wanted to say thank you. It really really means
a lot to me, and I know that we have
kind of a lot to catch up on, so we're
going to be back very soon with brand new episodes.
But in the meantime, have you heard about the economic
(00:39):
blackout plan for February twenty eighth. So it turns out
everybody is just sick to death of everything rising prices, authoritarianism,
and the quickness with which some companies just abandoned any
kind of commitment to diversity, equity and inclusion work just
because Trump said so. So I joined my friends Samantha
and Annie over at the podcast stuff Mom ever told
(01:01):
you to get into what all of it means To
take a listen.
Speaker 3 (01:09):
Okay, this is Annie and Samantha a of the stuff
I never told you procure if I hurt you, and welcome
to a very special stuff. We never told you. We
were so excited to be joined once again by the
(01:30):
very well read, the very well missed Bridget Todd. We
have missed you so much, Bridget.
Speaker 2 (01:36):
We're so good to have you.
Speaker 4 (01:37):
Oh, you were very well missed.
Speaker 2 (01:39):
I missed you all so much.
Speaker 1 (01:42):
Thanks for having me here, Like, uh, yeah, I used
to kind of rely.
Speaker 2 (01:46):
On shooting the shooting with y'all.
Speaker 1 (01:50):
I'm nice to have that outlet. I've missed it so much.
Thank you for having me here.
Speaker 4 (01:56):
Then it took us twenty minutes to get to the
recording part because of your conversation. I was like, oh, yeah,
we actually need to do things, but I missed talking
so with Bridget. So we need to know all the details.
Speaker 3 (02:07):
Yes, yes, and you, I mean you always this so
much going on right now, and so much in the
technology sector and so so much in so many sectors
that I just have a lot of trust in you, Bridget.
So you have been very well missed. Which is the Yeah,
I think something I just made up right then, But
(02:29):
but I know this is a loaded question.
Speaker 2 (02:32):
How have you been?
Speaker 4 (02:33):
What's been going on?
Speaker 1 (02:35):
If anyone watches Real Housewives of New York, there's a
meme of Derenda saying how have I been?
Speaker 2 (02:43):
Not well, that's that question. Not well, I mean I
have I have gone.
Speaker 1 (02:51):
I had the worst year of my life last year,
and I do want to say, like a big part
of that was Annie and saman that you both really
being such good friends and good collaborators and like really
giving me a lot of space. And so I want
to say like thank you for all the support. And
so I've had a personally rough go and then on
(03:14):
top of that everything else that's happening. It feels like
I went offline and when I came back, the world
was spiraling, and so yeah, I have been experiencing despair personally,
and then I feel like everybody else kind of also
met me in despair, and it's like, oh, we're all
in despair together.
Speaker 4 (03:30):
Welcome, which is essentially crying in each other's arms for
different reasons, but it all meshes together because the world's
on fire.
Speaker 5 (03:39):
Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, and here we are, like yay, Bridgid,
tell us about it, talk to us about this stuff,
Please make say some things.
Speaker 1 (03:52):
Well, we were talking off Mike about how complicated it
is as people who make podcasts and make contact. It's
like you have to find this balance of like not
wanting to severely bum everybody out, and you know, we're
not just people who make podcasts, Like I listen to
podcasts for fun, and I find myself being like, you know,
I can't handle anything real right now, I need to
(04:15):
just distract myself with some fluff. I think I think
we're all both as content creators and as people who
take in content and appreciate media.
Speaker 2 (04:24):
We're all trying to find this like sweet spot.
Speaker 1 (04:26):
I don't know if y'all listening can identify with this,
but I've really been struggling with how much to take
in to not have me completely be spiraling, and how
much to take in to keep me informed, trying to
find that balance.
Speaker 4 (04:40):
Right I think the big conversation is like knowing that
we have a responsibility and making sure like we're not
the complete like we're we can't stop everything, but we
do have a responsibility in witnessing it and making sure
we're calling it out. But at the same time, sometimes
that means that our well being is out the window
(05:04):
when we see too much. What do we see way
too much? And so having that balance of being like, yes,
I'm ready to be refreshed and fight again is so
hard to do what it feels like it's a constant
new fight exactly.
Speaker 1 (05:17):
I saw this post that I feel like really summed
up where I'm at, where it was like, certainly, if
I read one more piece of contact or one more
news article instead of going to sleep, I will feel
totally in control of what is happening.
Speaker 2 (05:30):
I yes, that could have been written by me. Oh
my goodness.
Speaker 5 (05:37):
Yes.
Speaker 3 (05:38):
Well, okay, speaking of we were discussing a friend of
mine who every day is sending me these texts where
I can tell she feels she has no control and
I'm kind of like, you need to you need to
find something else. I don't not all day, not all
the time, this is not good for you. But where
(05:58):
we are going to talk about one of the things
she used to do to distract herself, which was go
to Target the store Target that was like one of
her favorite things, and now she's very conflicted about all
of it. And I know that we're going to talk
about that Virginite.
Speaker 1 (06:18):
Yes, yes, And so I have to say, like shout
out to Annie's friend because her and me both I
there's a target that is very close to my apartment,
it's walking distance to my apartment.
Speaker 2 (06:27):
I will just like walk around.
Speaker 1 (06:29):
Target just for like a scenery change, like the same
way people will be like, oh, take a walk in
the park.
Speaker 2 (06:33):
I'm like, oh, let me see what Target has. It's
a terrible habit.
Speaker 1 (06:36):
Y'all can call me out, like totally totally own that
it's not good behavior. But I heretofore have loved Target,
Like there's just something about walking around, like they really
like get the people who are chopping there. And I
think that's one of the reasons why the whole thing
with Target and DEI is it feels personal to me.
(07:00):
It feels kind of heartbreaking because listen, Walmart stores like that.
Speaker 2 (07:05):
It's like they're not stores where I.
Speaker 1 (07:07):
Would imagine there are people who see me and like,
you know, get me as a shopper. Target feels occupies
a very different space in my consciousness. So when I
hear that some effery is happening with Target, I really
don't like it.
Speaker 2 (07:22):
Does that make sense?
Speaker 4 (07:24):
You definitely have to go through your list of like,
well all that I can't go there anymore. I can't,
and your list starts dwindling, especially when you like for
the longest time, we kind of not champion because there's
still a corporation at the end. But for a while
they were doing some things that were like, Yay, finally
you're doing some good initiatives at least bringing on great
(07:44):
products for a diverse group of people, which is apparently
the problem, and actually standing up for it. So it
seemed so to come back and be like, what the
hell exactly that?
Speaker 1 (07:57):
So I want to get into all of that. But
for folks who are I know what's going on. The
Trump administration kicked off with a grip of executive orders
I guess, like targeting wokeness through things like overhauling DEI initiative.
Speaker 2 (08:10):
So this happened in the federal government.
Speaker 1 (08:12):
Like currently right now, folks who work on anything even
tangentially DEI related within the federal government have been placed
on leave. I live in DC, and that that is
like what's happening with federal workers both in the District
of Columbia and nationally is like a whole other conversation.
It really is horrible and I think it will effect
(08:34):
impact all of us. I think we will all be
less safe because of it. So just wanted to name that.
But when it comes to DEI. It is not just
the public sector, because Trump also issued executive orders meant
to quash DEI programs in the private sector as well.
He directed agency heads to drop list of publicly traded
companies to investigate their DEI programs. So this is not
(08:56):
a totally new thing. I know that when I am
was on stuff I'm ever told you a while ago,
we were talking about the Supreme Court decision back in
twenty twenty three about affirmative action. So another sort of
side effect of that Supreme Court ruling was that some
of these big private companies started reassessing the legality of their.
Speaker 2 (09:15):
Programs after that ruling. So it's not totally new.
Speaker 1 (09:18):
But Trump being in the White House and sort of
starting off his administration with, you know, signaling all of
this pressure on DEI programs really has taken it to
a new level.
Speaker 3 (09:28):
Yes, And I feel like a lot of companies have
come out of the woodwork, not just companies but other
like universities and all this, and they're like, yeah, we'll
just get rid of that as quickly as possible. It's
so ready to be like yep, okay, didn't want it gone, yes, So.
Speaker 1 (09:44):
Like I mean so like, as somebody who covers technology,
I have really I'll say, not shocked, but disappointed when
it comes to tech companies. How quickly they were like, look, gone,
gone gone. After having to sit through years of listing
to these companies talk about or maybe even lie about
the way that they support women, LGBTQ people, black people like,
(10:08):
and I think with technology they have the power to
shape so much of our world and so much of
our culture that what they do really can set the tone.
And so yeah, it just sucks that we spent any
time at all pretending that these companies gave a crap about.
Speaker 2 (10:23):
Any of us.
Speaker 1 (10:24):
And then how quickly they're like, oh, just kidding. So
I'll run through a little bit of where we're at
with some of these companies. So Facebook just immediately went
along with Trump like we'd be here all day if
I listed all the ways, but just a taste, you know. Obviously,
they rolled back through DII programs, they rolled back fact
checking immediately, they lifted restrictions on saying things like quote
(10:47):
women are property on their platforms. And so if that
is an attitude that you happen to hold, that women
are property, you can say that on Facebook all day long,
and it is not a problem. You also saw a
Facebook CEO, Mark Zuckerberg doing things like ordering the removal
of tampons from all men's bathrooms in company offices.
Speaker 2 (11:06):
So these weird things.
Speaker 1 (11:08):
Where as Mashville put it, this decision was not about
cost cutting or efficiency. It took effort and served no
practical purpose and sent a clear message about the company's
shifting priority.
Speaker 2 (11:20):
So these things that are clearly like.
Speaker 1 (11:22):
They're not about cost cutting, they're not about, you know,
making the company more efficient. They're just about making it
clear where they're at, which mission accomplished, because I really
have a very clear understanding of where Facebook is at. Zuckerberg,
of course, went on a bunch of podcasts dressed like
a recently divorced nightclub promoter and talked about how Facebook
needs more quote masculine energy at their companies now. Now, again,
(11:46):
keep in mind, this is not a company that Time
magazine describes their current workforce as almost seventy percent mail.
Speaker 2 (11:52):
So I guess that's like not mail enough. We need
it to be more male.
Speaker 1 (11:56):
I don't know, I don't know how much more mail
you can get other than like one hundred percent, But okay,
we're just.
Speaker 4 (12:01):
Kind of like the opposite once again of being like,
you want to be really masculine, but a part of
your masculinity is like being impressive to women. So were
you being so impressive towards each other? Like bro okay,
which I kind of missed the days where we were
talking about him and fighting with Elon.
Speaker 2 (12:19):
I know you would go.
Speaker 4 (12:19):
Back to those days, But how did it happened to that?
Speaker 2 (12:21):
So he had a window where people didn't hate him.
Speaker 1 (12:24):
And what's funny is that I was just reading this
study that was like, oh, remember when Mark Zuckerberg like
changed his look and was trying to go for like
a softer, gentilour approach. Turns out everybody still hates him.
And I was like, oh, who even Dido? Who even
did the study? You're like, what's this's the study? But
there is a study that apparently that little window where
people didn't hate his guts did not last and had
(12:45):
no lasting impact. So he really squandered that tiny sliver
of goodwill that he got from people from that like
one week or whatever. People didn't completely hate his guts.
Speaker 4 (12:54):
Right, I think the whistleblowers in his life just really
was not having it, so I also missed them me.
Speaker 1 (13:00):
Too, Francis Hogan, where you at if we need you?
Speaker 4 (13:06):
Okay, speaking of big companies, we know like there were
several big CEOs and executives that were aligned and excited
to do exactly what Trump has been wanted to do,
including Amazon, right.
Speaker 1 (13:27):
Yeah, they scaled back their DEI programs pretty quickly.
Speaker 2 (13:32):
Google.
Speaker 1 (13:33):
I will say two companies that did not immediately scale
back to EI or Apple and Microsoft. Both of those
companies kind of reaffirmed their commitment to DEI. Companies are
so companies. So I don't want to be like giving
them too much ra rock credit. Microsoft has been very
chummy with Trump, But I do want to give credit
where credit is due on DEI specifically because I do
(13:54):
think like it's a choice. You know, one of the
big companies that did not scale back DEI, that will
talk more about in a bit as costco. Right, And
so these companies, even despite these executive orders, these companies
don't have to immediately comply. Immediately complying with these executive
orders is a choice, right, And so I wouldn't even
(14:15):
like a lot of people have described this moment as
sort of a mask off moment, especially when it comes
to tech companies, I wouldn't even say I agree with this.
I don't think that these companies have like necessarily not
wanted to do inclusion work all along.
Speaker 2 (14:33):
I don't think that that.
Speaker 1 (14:34):
I think the people who run these companies will just
align themselves with whoever is in power and whatever is
the favorable position at the moment. And so I don't
even think it's a mask off moment. Like I don't
think Mark Zuckerberg is showing his true colors.
Speaker 2 (14:48):
I don't think he has true colors.
Speaker 1 (14:49):
These are people who not who don't have genuine values
or backbone. And so if you don't really have if
you don't really value anything, it's not really a mask
off moment because your value is just power and money.
Speaker 4 (15:01):
Right. And it's interesting because we've had so many conversations
about places like Google and tech companies like them, and
how their initial setup was kind of like, we're the
cool nerds that you want to come work for. We're
the ones that's offering you know, unlimited PTO, but we
really don't think you should take it. We're the ones
that's bringing in women of color to be leaders, but
(15:22):
not really because we want to fire them. Because they're
talking too much and giving too many suggestions. Like it's
interesting to see how quickly that they were like, oh,
finally we don't have to pretend to be the cool
nerds and just be uh at the alpha males that
we've been training to be.
Speaker 1 (15:37):
Essentially, So, I actually think you're spot on, and I
do think we really need to have more conversations about
the cultural dynamic of some of these tech leaders and
some of these tech companies, because I think it is
how we sort of got into this mess in some ways,
because you know, if you think back to like, you know,
think back to the day the early days of platform
(16:00):
was like Instagram, the early days of iPhone technology and
the people who made it occupied a very specific place
in our cultural popular imagination. Right, it was Google offices
that looked really cool, that had pinball machines and open offices.
Speaker 2 (16:16):
Right. Google's motto used to be don't be evil.
Speaker 1 (16:18):
Until they dropped that motto officially in twenty eighteen.
Speaker 2 (16:22):
I think they might have just taken off the don't right.
Speaker 1 (16:23):
Maybe it's now like a little bit evil for a
tree is fine. I think that we gave them so
much space and so much runway to be these cool
nerds who we're going to be using technology to improve
all of our lives, and we kind of trusted that
that's what they were doing. And I think that because
of that trust, now when we check back in and
(16:44):
it's like, wait, are you guys actually still invested in
building a better future, and they're like, now, we're invested.
Speaker 2 (16:50):
In making money through exploiting you.
Speaker 1 (16:52):
Actually, I think that's where we're at, And so I
think it's really you're so right to bring up the
sort of cultural dynamics that are running some of these
companies and in tune shaping our understanding and attitude around them.
Speaker 4 (17:05):
Yeah, I mean, I'm not gonna lie. One of the best,
most like immediate examples was TikTok TikTok with that's like
trying to fight the government. I'm here for you, We're
here for your voice and where we want to represent
for your First Amendment right, and then being like, oh,
we love Donald Trump, He's gonna save us. Let's give
money to him. Like it's such a switch quick turnaround.
(17:26):
We were all like, oh, we were rooting for you
for a split second, like we were kind of doubting
you and a few things, but now like, oh, they
were such a quick turnaround of exactly what we saw
play out, except it took a little while longer.
Speaker 1 (17:39):
I had the exact same feeling, Like I remember thinking, oh,
TikTok Ceo is like this young guy, he's so savvy.
Speaker 2 (17:46):
Blah blah blah.
Speaker 1 (17:47):
How quickly he turned heel right, So like, don't trust
any of these leaders. I don't care how savvy they look.
I don't care how young they are. Like tech, a
tech company will break your heart. A tech company will
exploit you, take your money, get rich off of it,
and then expect you to champion them like a damn
luminary because of it.
Speaker 2 (18:05):
Absolutely not.
Speaker 4 (18:07):
I mean again, Target, For a split second, really we
really were like, Oh, they're bringing in black women own products,
and we want to cheer that on. They're standing up
for the LGBTQ plus community. We love that, you know,
really seeing like their pain beyond their minimum wage and
people are being like, we're excited, and then it turned
to this.
Speaker 2 (18:28):
Yeah, so let's get into it.
Speaker 1 (18:29):
So on January twenty fourth, Target announced they were going
to be rolling back their DEI initiatives, including programs to
foster and promote black owned businesses in its stores. This
is following Trump's signing of the executive order ending DEI
programs federally. So they sent around a memo by staff
member Kira Fernandez, Target's chief Community impact and equity officer
(18:50):
and a black woman herself. In this memo, the company
said they were going to stop conducting external diversity surveys
and submitting information to the Human Rights Campaign Corporate Equality Index,
which evaluates corporate policies on LGBTQ plus inclusion. The memo said,
quote throughout twenty twenty five, will be accelerating action in
key areas and implementing changes with the goal of driving
(19:11):
growth and staying in step with the evolving external landscape.
And so just like what you were saying, Sam, this
is particularly notable because Target really did seem like one
of those retailers that was making and signaling investment in
things like inclusion, especially after twenty twenty. So Target their
(19:31):
headquarters is based in Minneapolis, where George Floyd was killed.
So in twenty twenty, Target reiterated its racial equity Action
and Change initiative, which involves things like anti racism training
for employees and prioritize hiring and promoting black staff, and
they really look to grow the number of black owned
businesses at Target. In twenty twenty one, Target pledged to
invest two billion in black owned businesses by the end
(19:54):
of twenty twenty five as part of this program. And
so here's the thing that I always like to talk
about when it comes to things like DEI and inclusion.
These programs don't just exist because they're like the nice
thing to.
Speaker 2 (20:07):
Do, which they are. They're good business. They make companies money.
Speaker 1 (20:11):
These companies exist to make money, and it turns out
that inclusion is good for business. Target's chief executive officer
Brian Cornell told Fortune's Leadership Next podcast in twenty twenty
three that all of these like inclusion and diversity focused
initiatives quote, fueled so much of our growth over the
last nine years. So they are definitely cashing in and
(20:33):
making money off of traditionally marginalized people as a consumer block.
Speaker 4 (20:38):
I wonder how close to that goal were they when
twenty twenty five happened, like just giving those billions out
of investments, Like were they actually that closed or maybe
I wonder conspiracy theories, like they were nowhere near something
like let's just roll it back and pretend like it
never happened because we're not going to meet this.
Speaker 1 (20:55):
I mean, that wouldn't surprise me whenever, So this is
like like a hot tip for them. Whenever a company
is like, we pledge to do X, y Z thing, right,
it's always good practice to follow up because half the
time they've done nothing and they're just like not counting
on anybody following up.
Speaker 2 (21:10):
So it's like they can say anything.
Speaker 1 (21:11):
They could say we pledged to do whatever, and it's
like if if no one's following up, they can just
get all the good pr and goodwill without actually doing
the thing that they voluntarily said they were gonna do.
Speaker 4 (21:22):
Right, no one asked for these numbers.
Speaker 2 (21:24):
You brought this up.
Speaker 3 (21:25):
This I'm sure you've run into this before. Bridget as
a medium that depends on advertisers sometimes, like during like
Pride Month, they'll be like, this company is gonna do
this and do this and do this, and I'll be like, okay,
tell me how silence. I never hear it from them again,
Like hmm.
Speaker 2 (21:47):
Yeah, I wasn't expecting. I wouldn't have said that. I
thought you were gonna like ask a follow up.
Speaker 3 (21:54):
Basically, people to donate to your companies that you're gonna donate, Like, well,
what are you gonna do though?
Speaker 4 (22:02):
What you They're gonna give them moneys to those organizations
and then write it off as their taxes as if
they donated the money and not the customers. Obviously, any
come on, so naive. I am honestly like that whole
rolling up of like the change, and then everybody's like,
don't do that because they're using this as a tax break.
(22:25):
I was like, Oh, yeah, that's sell bug. Oh damn it.
Why are so evil?
Speaker 2 (22:30):
I mean, like that's the thing.
Speaker 1 (22:31):
Like I want to be clear, it's not like I'm
It's not like.
Speaker 2 (22:34):
Like I ask.
Speaker 1 (22:36):
Someone who is very critical of things like capitalism. I
didn't think Target was really my friend or really my
ally even when they did this stuff. So it's not
I'm not expecting any corporation or any company to like
truly meaningfully be an ally. But I do think these
companies that go out of their way to signal to me,
you know, as a black woman consumer, that like we
(22:57):
care about you, we we like understand that you are
are fueling our profit margins, so like let's try to
be aligned with like giving you the customer experience that
you want. I do think that matters, and so especially
a company like Target. I don't know if folks really
understand the role that Target plays, especially for Black women,
(23:19):
like you know, back in the day. So look, if
you like, back in the day when I first grew
my hair out natural, there were not a lot of
mainstream stores where you could walk in and find a
well stocked natural haircare aisle. Target was one of the first, right,
and so it really I think went another way to
(23:39):
curry a lot of favor with Black women as a
consumer base because of that kind of thing being like, oh,
what is it that you actually use, what is it
that you're actually looking for? How can we fill the
niches in your you know, shopping situation. I think Target
did that very well, and I think it really positioned
them as a place where they were signaling to the
people who actually give them money, like, Hey, we see y'all,
(24:02):
we know what y'all need, we know what we're listening
to you. As the cut points out, the retailers Black
owned brands span categories from home to apparel and beauty,
including hair care brands the Dough Camille Rose and the
viral mel and beauty brand the lip Bar. These brands
fill avoid in the market, making products for various skin
tones and hair textures available. For example, the Dough has
(24:24):
its viral curl defining moves beloved by the natural hair community.
So it really did play a particular role I think
in a lot of black women's shopping diets.
Speaker 3 (24:36):
Yeah, I mean, and it was, like you said, a
mainstream store to do it, And it felt I don't know,
we like you've said, we have said in their companies
they're not allies. But it felt nice to be like, Okay,
I can go here and this place is with me.
(25:00):
He kind of gets me. This seems like a it
doesn't feel as bad that I'm going here, you know,
I don't feel the same guilt maybe right somewhere else.
Speaker 4 (25:11):
I think this also brings into the conversation about the
fact that they need to like erase this as in
like take this out because of why so this is
obviously a bigger conversation and trying to make a publicity
stunt essentially just like bringing off products and bringing saying
(25:33):
like okay, so diversity in equity and inclusion in these
what does that mean exactly? And in this conversation. It's
pretty much saying, Okay, we will now exclude a certain
group of people that were excluded previously before this time,
and by doing so, we're going to make white supremacts
(25:55):
feel more comfortable because they were uncomfortable with I don't know,
shopping with people of color, like such a conversation like
they but why why is this so important that Target
needs to do this, Like they were making money off
of this and they're so afraid of or I guess
maybe they are just white suppromus one of those two
things in order to satisfy a group of people who
(26:20):
didn't even know it was a thing. For like the
longest time. People were just like, oh, what is this
new stuff? Okay, moved on, except when people finally said
this is black oman and they're like, oh my god. What.
Speaker 1 (26:29):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (26:30):
I mean, that's a really good question.
Speaker 1 (26:32):
I honestly think that in this moment, it's just about
signaling alignment with Trump and the new administration. I think that, like,
you know, Target has been making good money off of
marketing toward marginalized people, right. I mean, y'all remember when
the last time that Target was in the crosshairs of
(26:54):
a lot of extremists because they had a well stocked,
robust pride section and for pride things like that, like
and Target caved on that. Like I will say, like,
so I think it really just illustrates that these companies,
whatever is in power, whatever is the like, they don't
actually have values or backbones, and we shouldn't necessarily even
(27:18):
be expecting them to.
Speaker 2 (27:19):
They'll they'll just cave and bend to whoever is in power.
Speaker 1 (27:22):
And what makes it even more frustrating is like after
they they will do that, after they signaled that they
want to be more aligned with these communities. So Chantel Powell,
who is a black entrepreneur who makes a deodorant for
kids called play Pits, which was stocked at Target, she
put it really well. She said, quote, it's frustrating corporations
(27:43):
jumped on the bandwagon to support black businesses when it
was trendy. Now that it's easier to discard us, that's
what they're doing. And so yeah, I just don't think
that these companies give a crap. Really, They it's all posting,
it's all signaling, like they don't really have any kind
of like values genuinely stick to or a firm like
in moments of you know, upheaval. The thing that you
(28:06):
can always go back to as your north star is values.
Like as a contact creator, I had to have a
whole conversation when Trump took power of like, well, what
are my values and what am I doing in this
moment to actually serve the people that I want to
be in community with. When you when you have values,
that is always your north star. These companies do not
have any value, so of course they're gonna blow wherever
(28:27):
the wind.
Speaker 4 (28:27):
Blows, right, They're they're gonna do the bottom line, which
there's so much again, like in this conversation about how
who was easily discarded first? And this is all about
the virtue signaling as they want to stay because as
robust as their like stock was, it wasn't you still
have to like purposely find it. And it was a
(28:49):
shock to see it, like it's I remember the many
times were like, oh that's cute. Oh look it's you
know a black owner or a black creator who did this.
That's amazing because it's one out of one hundred, you know,
to see it was notable because there wasn't that many.
So even the most like diverse products were just literally
one out of fifty one out of one hundred, Like
(29:11):
it still wasn't.
Speaker 1 (29:12):
I remember back when extremists were targeting Target because of
the pride.
Speaker 2 (29:16):
Stuff and the LGBTQ stuff, people would get upset.
Speaker 1 (29:19):
Because Target sold chest binders right for trans folks, and
it's like, okay, so you don't need a chest binder.
Speaker 2 (29:27):
Why is it so horrible that like.
Speaker 1 (29:29):
Out of out of what one hundred, It's like when
you go into the underpant section of Target, ninety nine
point nine percent of garments are designed for SIS people
and they have one product for trans people, and it's
the end of the world. Like, how is that really
the biggest complaint that you can make right now?
Speaker 4 (29:47):
Right? I mean our sports bras alone, yes, are just
as offensive to me sometimes, but anyway, why would you
uh no, in all of those statements. It really like,
as much as we want to tell that they were inclusive,
they weren't. And the amount of hate that people will
(30:09):
give in order to make a sleep again, we know
that haters in general to want to create controversy, so
they would go out trying to look for anything that
they're like, this is controversial, this is this? Why does
this have to be this and half the time again
it was misinformation or disinformation and being like this black
product for the black community was often created by white corporations.
(30:31):
Like we saw that many times.
Speaker 1 (30:33):
Absolutely absolutely so when Target announced their intention to pull
back from these initiatives, people were not happy. Some like
Minneapolis Council Member Jason Chadez and Strike for All, which
is an advocacy organization run by former Senator Nita Turner,
called for a boycott of Target in response, which is
currently still going on. This was a little bit tricky
(30:55):
in that Target backing away from DEI does not mean
that like black and brown owned companies are going to
be pulled from the shelves. And so you saw a
lot of black creators and black entrepreneurs being like, well, wait,
if you boycott Target and you're not going to go
to Target, it will hurt us even more because that's
less people who are buying our items from the shelves.
(31:16):
Maya Smith, who is a black woman and the founder
of the Dough the haircare brand, shared the statement on Instagram,
saying pulling black dollars from these retailers doesn't hurt the
corporations as much as it hurts the brands you love.
It also feeds into false narratives that we're only here
because of DEI initiatives, not because of the countless sacrifices
and creativity we've poured into creating a lasting impact on
(31:38):
the textured hair category. Through the dough, you might say like, oh, well,
I'll just buy directly from this brand rather than buying
it from Target. But Powell, the founder of Playpits That
Kids deodorant company, said that buying directly online might not
actually be so helpful for some of these black owned brands.
She said, big box retailers are a predictable revenue stream.
(32:00):
Online I might make two thousand dollars one day and
two hundred the next, but with Target, I have a
consistent flow of income. It's also a convenient opportunity for
my customers to shot my products. For moms, convenience is key,
and so I get where these creators are coming from.
I do want to spotlight that one of my favorite
black creators, who has the brand Oh Happy Danny, immediately
(32:23):
announced that she was cutting ties with Target and like
phasing herself off the shelves as soon as Target made
this announcement. But you know, I do understand the complexities
here because it is not a clear cut situation. And
I don't want to say that I have the answer,
but I understand that people want solidarity from some of
(32:45):
these black creators that they see on the shelves at Target.
Speaker 2 (32:48):
But I also.
Speaker 1 (32:49):
Understand that, hey, if you're a black creator and a
black entrepreneur, you do have a harder time compared to
your non black counterparts, right, And so you know, people
are basically saying, like, well, why should I be expected
to miss out even more because of a decision that
Target made.
Speaker 2 (33:03):
I can really understand both positions.
Speaker 5 (33:06):
Right.
Speaker 4 (33:07):
It's one thing to say we're gonna boycott McDonald's and
Starbucks and the such, but doing specific things with these
creators who have brands, it's it is hard. Like we've
talked about the fact that also it's really hard for
individuals in general to try to figure out what's a
good company because all these grocery stores or all these
stores they have something, whether it's anti union, whether they
(33:30):
don't pay their employees enough, or whether they're rolling back DEI,
or whether they you know, gave to the Republican Party
or Donald Trump themselves. It's really hard to try to
do conscient just buying when you are stuck. And again,
we talked about disabilities previously about how it's also impossible
to not do delivery service for a lot of disabled people,
(33:52):
even though like corporations like Amazon is awful, however they
give access to those who can't go well, Like, it's
such a hard conversation about what to do and how
to truly support without hurting the people you're trying to support.
Speaker 1 (34:07):
Yeah, I've really been struggling with this in my personal
life as well, Like I am trying to boycott Target
and Amazon. But you know, easy for me to say
as an able bodied person with discretionary income and no kids, right, Like,
if you're a busy new parent or somebody with a disability,
(34:30):
I don't regard to you anything that you got to
do to get through the day. But I know that
I personally do have some wiggle room, right, And so
what's been interesting to me is I'm I wouldn't say
I'm boycotting any particular company for any particular stance. However,
I'm really just reassessing the role that these companies play
in my habits more generally, right, Like Amazon is a
(34:53):
terrible company, they are terrible for the world in so
many reasons, and Amazon's owner Jeff Bezos is incredibly buddy
buddy with Trump. When Trump was inaugurated, you saw the
whole line of techholes, Mark Zuckerberg, Jeff Bezos. I live
in DC, Jeff Bezos owns Amazon. Jeff Bezos owns where
(35:13):
I get my healthcare one medical he bought that. Jeff
Bezos owns my local newspaper, The Washington Post.
Speaker 2 (35:19):
He owns that.
Speaker 1 (35:20):
Jeff Bezos owns where I do my grocery shopping, Whole Foods,
he owns that. Like how much of my life does
one billionaire get to control? And so it's not even
about one specific policy, It's more that I am trying
to reject that entire dynamic.
Speaker 2 (35:35):
And one way that I'm.
Speaker 1 (35:36):
Doing that on a small personal level is just trying
to buy shop small, shop local, my local places when
I can, and shop less in general, Like do I
need to be consuming so much?
Speaker 2 (35:49):
Who is this supporting?
Speaker 1 (35:50):
Who am I empowering with my dollar when I go
in and mindlessly buy something I don't even really need.
Speaker 2 (35:56):
And so I don't think.
Speaker 1 (35:57):
It has to be some kind of a big boycott. Necessarily,
you can just through small ways desides. You know, I want,
I want to participate in this kind of an economy
less and less, and I just think that's true for
so many people.
Speaker 4 (36:11):
Right, But yeah, we still have to keep in consideration
and like as a whole who has the privilege to
do that? You know, we talked about you and I
and Annie have reliable cars that can take us places.
I said, Annie has a dot dot dot because her
car's getting there.
Speaker 1 (36:29):
Annie question MARKMN her Honda is still running.
Speaker 4 (36:34):
Not a sponsor. This is kind of going off topic,
and I do want to ask what your thoughts are
because I've seen a few posts saying like February twenty
eighth is a blackout day where people being told don't
(36:57):
buy anything, don't consume anything. Let that be the day
that no one buys things. If you can, are those
things like are those things effective? Does that do where
one day a lot more people do not consume and
so therefore like kind of make a dip in that day?
Are things like that a viable way of protesting some
of these evil corporations?
Speaker 2 (37:16):
Oh? I think absolutely.
Speaker 1 (37:18):
So It's funny that you bring this up because I
was just reading a post on Reddit by that witchy
lady was like three why's, and they said. The title
of the post is to those saying boycotts won't work.
From a former retail worker, and they write, I keep
seeing misinformation being spread to the tune of boycotts don't work,
No one cares. They'll be back at targeted no time.
(37:40):
I'm here to share my experience as a retail worker.
I've worked retail at four different chains, and I asked
that other retail workers chime in.
Speaker 2 (37:46):
They absolutely have the ability.
Speaker 1 (37:47):
To work because these businesses care way more about their
numbers than the average consumer who has never worked retail realizes.
When I was working for corporate owned women's clothing store,
we could hourly updates about meeting our goals literally typed
into our ears. Numbers got reported to the team daily.
Everyone knew when we were hitting our goals and when
we weren't, and when we were pushed to sell, sell, sell.
I was just the tiny little cog in the machine.
(38:09):
But if that's what's being said and pressured onto me,
imagine what these big wigs and their boardrooms are talking about.
I think that the February twenty eighth economic boycott has
the power to scare them. Why because I saw my
direct managers ubsess over these numbers on an hourly basis.
Please join the economic boycott on February twenty eighth. You know,
money talks, which is why they are trying so hard
to tell you that it doesn't matter. They're doing it
(38:30):
because it does matter. So that's just one retail worker's opinion.
But I got to think that they're on the money
with something because you know, especially in a time where
we don't feel like we have a lot of power
or a lot of agency or a lot of voice,
our money, our spending power, our economic power really does
have weight.
Speaker 2 (38:50):
Like that is power.
Speaker 3 (38:52):
Right.
Speaker 4 (38:52):
I'm glad you read that because I go back and
forth on again understanding what is effective, on what isn't,
whether boycott is or isn't effective, Who is able to
do what and participate in who is being hurt by
some of these protests. Of course, I don't give a
shit about the corporation who know they're evil. I'm not
talking about them in general, but like again, like the
(39:13):
entrepreneurs who have products in these different companies that I've
also seen them talk about Amazon that like that does
help with cells, It gives me money, like it gives
us whatever ratings or whatnot, which again I'm not touting Amazon.
I paused my membership and all of that. I've done
it because I was like, I feel too dirty because
I was depending on it so much, because I didn't
want to go out to target and actually walk about
(39:33):
and see people. But all of that in conversation of like,
if this does work, then we need to be shouting
it louder, because yeah, we want to at least be
effective and doing the things as effectively as possible if
we are able to do so, and being prepared for it.
And honestly, outside of a couple of TikTok posts, I
haven't seen much about it.
Speaker 2 (39:54):
Have y'all the economic blockout?
Speaker 4 (39:57):
Yeah I have.
Speaker 2 (40:01):
But I am like pretty deep into a lot of
like buy.
Speaker 1 (40:04):
Nothing, sham the cogs of capitalism in these small ways
online spaces. But I guess I'm curious if my friends
who were like not in those spaces, if they're seeing
any of it at all. People listening might be like
there's an economic boycott on February twenty eighth being planned.
Speaker 2 (40:21):
I've never heard of it.
Speaker 4 (40:22):
You haven't, So that's the question is, like how how
widely is it being spread. Hey, y'all, there's an economic
blackout on the twenty eighth of February. If you're listening
to this on the day is released, Yeah, the part
we're podcasts. I don't know when this is going to be.
Speaker 2 (40:38):
So here's a little bit of information I just found.
Speaker 1 (40:40):
So, according to CBS, behind the boycott is a group
called the People's Union USA, a self described grassroots organization
founded by John Schwartz, a fifty seven year old dad
from Queens, New York, who said that he's been promoting
the consumer blackout for wests on social media. The People's
Union says it has no political affiliation, but focuses on
quote fairness, economic justice, and real systemic change. So the
(41:02):
call to action, or rather in action, is asking that
American consumers refrain from making any purchases at major retailers
on Friday, February twenty eighth. The protest comes as people
continue to endure rising prices on everything from food to gas,
to housing and new utilities, epitomized by the soaring cost
of eggs, which in January averaged four to ninety five
a dozen. So, yeah, that is the information. If you're
(41:24):
interested in participating. You can go online and find out more.
But I understand because like again, like it for me,
it's really not about any one policy or store. It's
like I do not want to continue to participate in
an economic system that just continues to exploit me. And
I understand that, Like we're in capitalism, so what am
(41:46):
I gonna do? But like I can do in small ways,
I can opt out of that system more and more,
like I've been really you know, it's it sounds so
small and stupid, and in some ways I understand that
it is. But like I've been and growing herbs on
my balcony, so when I need fresh herbs, I'm not
running to Target. I just have them on my balcony.
I've been cooking more at home. I've been like, rather
(42:08):
than going on and buying new stuff, I'm like using
free groups and.
Speaker 2 (42:12):
Like, you know, things like that, of like I just.
Speaker 1 (42:14):
Want to participate in this economy less and less because
it is just so exploitative, right, And.
Speaker 4 (42:22):
Just coming back on track onto all the information that
you are bringing us, like this is that conversation once
again when I come back in the confused era of
like DEI and why it's so offensive to people and
why they think is so harmful when in actuality it's not.
Speaker 1 (42:39):
Well you know who definitely doesn't find it harmful, and
that's Costco. So the same climate that had companies like
Target abandoning their DEI initiatives and their inclusion work so quickly,
Costco exists in that same environment and guess what, they
didn't cave on anything.
Speaker 2 (42:56):
So to be.
Speaker 1 (42:57):
Super clear, I know I've said this before, but DEID
and inclusion is not just like the right thing to do.
Speaker 2 (43:02):
It is profitable.
Speaker 1 (43:03):
It makes companies money, you know, just like that Target
executive saying that supporting an inclusion in twenty twenty made
the company money. Being able to cast a wide net
when you're doing things like hiring and being able to
attract all different kinds of people who want to spend
money with your brand is good business. So Costco got
approached by the Trump administration and was trying to be
(43:25):
They were trying to pressure Costco into dropping their DEI programs,
and Costco basically was like, no, our programs are fine.
Speaker 2 (43:30):
Y'all can kick rocks.
Speaker 1 (43:32):
Nineteen Attorneys general led by Texas Attorney General Ken Paxton,
which by the way, he's a real piece of work.
Speaker 2 (43:40):
Google him if you've got a saberamanut because he's a
real piece of work.
Speaker 1 (43:42):
And Iowa Attorney General Brenna Burdair are currently trying to
pressure Costco into abandoning their DEI initiatives. They sent Costco
a letter saying, with three hundred thousand employees, Costco likely
has at least two hundred thousand employees who are potentially
victims of a legal discrimination because they are white, Asian, man,
or straight. Even if only a fraction of those employees
were to file suit and only some of these proved successful,
(44:05):
the cost to Costco could be tens of billions of dollars.
So that's like pretty clearly a threat to essentially extort Costco.
Costco's board's response was, our board is considered as proposal
and believes that our commitment to an enterprise rooted in
respect and inclusion is appropriate and necessary. The report requested
by this proposal would not provide meaningful additional information to
(44:27):
our shareholders, and the board thus unanimously recommends a vote
against this proposal.
Speaker 4 (44:36):
First of all, I hate they included as but I
know they do, but like I'm still like aah it'stop that.
But all these things I will say on a good
note because there was a moment where I was iffy
with Costco for a split second. I was like, I
can't go nowhere because there had an almost union strike. However,
before it could go down, Costco followed the lead and
(44:58):
actually worked with the unionized members and gave them the
raises that they deserved. So kudos. It worked out. It
took a little pressuring, but I'm glad to know that
they're not anti union, so that is a plus BT dubs,
because that's one of the big questions. Like the last
five years, I feel like I've just seen more and
more conversations about whether it's DEI or it's anti union,
(45:20):
and I'm like, why do you have to be so
mean to your people's But like seeing that they were
able to actually be on top of it is nice, nicest,
not on top of it, but finally like understanding everything
from every aspect. It felt like, Okay, maybe I need
to buy a freezer from them so I can store
the large amounts of food they sell.
Speaker 1 (45:41):
I mean, I find there one dollar fifty cents hot dogs,
delightful and my late father rest his soul He loved
to brag about how you could return anything to Costco
for cash no matter what. He was like a real
abuser of that policy.
Speaker 2 (45:56):
You know what gotta do, what you gotta do, and
you know, I might.
Speaker 1 (45:59):
I'm saying this because I think that like Costco is
some like idealist crusader. Ally, I'm sure they're terrible in
a million other ways, but I think that they are
a company that likes making money, and they have done
the math and they have probably realized that their DEI
and inclusion policies help them make money. And it seems like, honestly,
I have to say like, it does seem like Target
(46:22):
is experiencing some financial consequences here. To be clear, retail
shopping is down generally in part I think because of
things like inflation and rising prices and economic uncertainty and
like changing consumer habits. But Target and Walmart both saw
their retail numbers fall in the wake of pulling their
DEI initiatives, while Costco did not. Again, I don't specifically
(46:44):
know if this is because of the boycott or because
of DEI, but this is according to retail brew foot
traffic is down at Target stores. According to data from
placer Ai prepared exclusively for retail brew. In the week
that began January twenty seven, foot traffic fell four percent,
fell eight point six percent the week beginning February third,
and three point nine percent the week beginning February tenth.
(47:06):
This was the first drop in traffic this year for Target,
with foot traffic for the first four weeks of twenty
twenty five up between five percent and eleven point eight percent.
Walmart was the same. Meanwhile, Costco has seen traffic rise
for the same three week period, up by five point
eight percent on the week beginning January twenty seven, five
point seven percent on the week beginning February third, and
(47:27):
four point six percent on the week beginning February tenth.
So is this the result of like people boycotting Target,
not going to Target, you know, not wanting to shop
at places that have these kinds of policies.
Speaker 2 (47:39):
I don't know, But what I do know is that
women have money.
Speaker 1 (47:44):
In fact, most financial decisions being made in households are
being made by women.
Speaker 2 (47:49):
Black people have money, Queer people have money, trans people
have money. We spend money.
Speaker 1 (47:54):
We have real economic power, and I think all of
us really have to understand that, and like understand what
that means, that it matters where we put our money,
it matters who we choose to financially support, and like,
and I agree with that person's comment on Reddit that
like the fact that they keep trying to convince us
that it's not powerful, it doesn't matter, should be a
signal to all of us that it actually does.
Speaker 4 (48:16):
Yeah, you're right. With all the misinformation and disinformation they
that we get, it wouldn't be surprising that corporate people
would want us I think this doesn't work, so that
we would stop doing it.
Speaker 2 (48:28):
Exactly.
Speaker 3 (48:29):
Yeah, Like, no, I you haven't hurt me at all,
And secretly they're getting those numbers, Oh no, Yeah, Yeah,
it'll be interesting to see what happens. And I know,
I know for a lot of us, US and our listeners,
(48:50):
it is something that we're all wrestling with these ways
we can make these changes in this system, and there's
so many different factors to it. But yeah, I definitely
where you put your money and who you choose to
support with your money, that's a big one. That's a
big one, very.
Speaker 1 (49:08):
Important, especially now like this is the tapic And again,
just I think I've said this, but I want to play.
Speaker 2 (49:14):
It clearly, like easy for me to say.
Speaker 1 (49:16):
I am a I'm not a parent. I live in
an easily walkable community, you know, I am able bodied,
like easy for me to say. But like, if you're
someone for whom that is the case, you can, you know,
be choosy about how and where you spend your money.
Speaker 2 (49:31):
Not everybody has that luxury.
Speaker 1 (49:32):
And if you are somebody who's listening, who does, that's great,
Like we should be the people who are making those
kinds of decisions.
Speaker 3 (49:38):
Yes, absolutely, well, thank you so much, Bridget. We're so
happy to have you back on. It was so good
to talk with you. Where can the good listeners find you?
Speaker 1 (49:51):
Ah, this has been a pleasure. I miss shooting the
s with you all. And if you want to shoot
the s with me, you listen to my podcast Their
Own Our Girls on the internet or follow me on
Instagram at Bridget Marie and DC.
Speaker 3 (50:04):
Yes yes uh and go do that listeners, And if
you would like to contact us you can. You can
email us at hello at Stuffwenevertold You dot com. You
can find us on blue Sky at mom Stuff Podcasts,
or in Instagram and TikTok at stuff When Never Told you.
We're also on YouTube. We have tea public store, and
we have a book you can get wherever you get
your books. Thanks as always to our super producer Christina
and executive producer Maya and your contributor Joey.
Speaker 4 (50:25):
Thank you.
Speaker 3 (50:26):
Thanks to you for listening stuff I'll Never told you
to production of my Heart Radio. More podcast from my
Heart Radio, you can check out the I Heart Radio app,
Apple Podcast wherever you listen to your favorite ship
Popular Podcasts
The Breakfast Club
The World's Most Dangerous Morning Show, The Breakfast Club, With DJ Envy And Charlamagne Tha God!
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
Decisions, Decisions
Welcome to "Decisions, Decisions," the podcast where boundaries are pushed, and conversations get candid! Join your favorite hosts, Mandii B and WeezyWTF, as they dive deep into the world of non-traditional relationships and explore the often-taboo topics surrounding dating, sex, and love. Every Monday, Mandii and Weezy invite you to unlearn the outdated narratives dictated by traditional patriarchal norms. With a blend of humor, vulnerability, and authenticity, they share their personal journeys navigating their 30s, tackling the complexities of modern relationships, and engaging in thought-provoking discussions that challenge societal expectations. From groundbreaking interviews with diverse guests to relatable stories that resonate with your experiences, "Decisions, Decisions" is your go-to source for open dialogue about what it truly means to love and connect in today's world. Get ready to reshape your understanding of relationships and embrace the freedom of authentic connections—tune in and join the conversation!