Power Costs More Than Money

In this episode, Tamika D Mallory and Mysonne discuss various pressing issues, including youth behavior in public spaces, the implications of a French politician's comments on the Statue of Liberty, and the recent voting victories in Louisiana. They introduce guest Gary Chambers, who shares insights on the State of the People Power Tour and the importance of community engagement. The conversation also touches on the role of Black voters and shaping political outcomes and the challenges faced in representation, particularly in states like Wisconsin. 

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
What's going on to Mika matter.

Speaker 2 (00:01):
Going on Listen Man, Episode two.

Speaker 3 (00:04):
Episode two, Season five, now Here, We love y'all. It's
gonna be bigger and better every year. We're going. Shout
out to the Black Effect Podcast Network, Shout out to iHeart,
shout out to everybody who loves us.

Speaker 2 (00:18):
Oh God Lord, so sometimes you could be so sentimental.
You got it is shout out we got listen and
shout out to the team.

Speaker 1 (00:27):
Shout out to the team.

Speaker 4 (00:30):
I think that because of the fact that we're on
the air. Excuse me, I think that, because of us
being in public when you're speaking, that you should call
her by her correct name.

Speaker 1 (00:42):
Her name is Janie, I call it.

Speaker 2 (00:44):
So what you should say that behind the.

Speaker 3 (00:46):
Scenes, Well, her name Janie, I call it Janie.

Speaker 4 (00:49):
So when I said thank you to the team, also,
janis like you said, But it's a bunch of folks
that work on this show, Armando, we have to give
him some season. Season five is going to be good
because everybody seems to be focused. Tisha, Toya, Trina's a
bunch of people behind the scenes that's working on the
TMI show. So I was going to talk about in

(01:09):
my team and my thought of the day, which we're
gonna skip for today, I was going to talk about
the kids in co Op City who now have been
banned from entering the mall. You have to be eighteen
years old to go into the mall because they have
been running through doing a flash run.

Speaker 2 (01:24):
They are not harming anybody.

Speaker 4 (01:26):
I haven't seen reports that they stole anything, but they
have been running through the mall, lots of them, and
then just go. And so what I was gonna say is, yes, absolutely,
parents need to know where their kids are and kids
need to be more responsible.

Speaker 2 (01:38):
These are not babies. They know what they're doing is wrong.

Speaker 4 (01:41):
But I was really going to get more into the
issue around one that co Op City has a responsibility
to help these kids have somewhere they can go run, right,
So that's one thing that you know, we could get
into at a different time. They have a responsibility to
help these kids go to where there's no programs and

(02:04):
co Op that really truly address the needs of the youth.
So that's why they're in the mall because there's nowhere
else for them to go. There's no planned activities, there's
none of that. So that's a problem. But my real
point was going to be that. It's so unfortunate that
we can't even say that we want the authorities to
be in the mall to make sure that they help

(02:27):
get them in and out, because kids, it could turn
into hell. Right, you already would have young people that
will feel fear. You will have parents that will be
afraid that their kids are in there, and god knows
what can happen, and you can't trust that the authorities
are going to go there and deal with the kids
in a way to be like and I don't think

(02:47):
that cops should.

Speaker 2 (02:48):
Be responsible for being mentors.

Speaker 4 (02:50):
But they have a way that they deal with kids
that white children that they don't deal with them.

Speaker 1 (02:57):
It's supposed to be a process.

Speaker 3 (02:58):
And I've watched many of these type of situations where
they slamming kids on their neck and beating them up.

Speaker 1 (03:04):
Like it's too aggressive.

Speaker 3 (03:05):
So yeah, like you said, there definitely should be you know,
safety measures inside the mall so people are safe. But
unfortunately we can't even you know, hope that we have
law enforcement understand you just don't know we got I
think that's what we need, like community situation, you know,
violence interruptors and those type of organizations should be sent out,

(03:27):
you know, to to to the mall to where they
see people from their community.

Speaker 1 (03:33):
And sometimes it gets a look, we've always done.

Speaker 2 (03:35):
That flash running.

Speaker 3 (03:37):
No, I don't say flashmen, but we've used to go
to the mall and just be a bunch of us running.
Sometimes something happened. You might get into argument other kids,
y'all running. It might be a little fight, but they
break it up. You run off, but they just like
go because that's a new thing. It is probably just
to make people scared, and you know, and it's not good.

Speaker 4 (03:56):
It's stupid kids stupid because you could actually get hurt.
And if one of those kids go fall into the
ban or something like that, that would be a fall down.

Speaker 2 (04:06):
Escalators is just too much.

Speaker 4 (04:08):
And those types of things happen, right because it's those
types of things that you are like, oh, shoot, I
can't believe.

Speaker 2 (04:16):
That that happened.

Speaker 4 (04:17):
What would they do? Oh, they were running through the mall.
So anyway, long story short, that's something you know, we
have to deal with because what do we do in
the Bronx and other places.

Speaker 2 (04:29):
About our nags.

Speaker 4 (04:35):
The TMI today you're doing too much or maybe you're not.
And you know, I don't really have an opinion either
way about this, because I don't know how I feel
about what they call it Indian given, you give it
and you take it back.

Speaker 2 (04:47):
But it's funny that.

Speaker 4 (04:49):
One of the French politicians, I think he's from the
European Parliament, he said that he believes the Statue of
Liberty should be given and back to France. Now it
was given to America in eighteen eighty four as a
birthday gift. So it was like, you know, I think
independence thing exactly, and so he said that people in

(05:12):
America have chosen the side of the tyrant, and so
they're basically talking about the Statue of Liberty is supposed
to be about liberty and justice and now you have
an authoritarian government. He didn't say that, I'm saying it
and that's not liberty at all. What we see happening
in this nation under Donald Trump's presidency. Not that we

(05:33):
didn't always have issues, but they are certainly worse at
this moment, and so he says, give it back. So now,
I just I wanted to know for you, and then,
of course from our audience, do people feel that he's
doing too much, like we're not taking the Statue of
liberty down, you don't take it back or do you

(05:53):
feel like I actually respect to understand his position?

Speaker 3 (05:56):
Well, I know Trump talking about give the Panama Canal
that he's talking about all of these things. What else
he said? It was the Panama Canal and something else.
He's like, you know, we need to rename it and
all of these things. So I guess the brother is
saying to himself, well, listen, since the situation has changed, like,
we gave this as a gift, and you know that's
when you was our allies and we felt like we

(06:18):
was in partnership, and now you're completely changing the dynamics
of this relationship. So I don't know if it actually
stands for what it stood for, you should probably give
it back.

Speaker 1 (06:29):
The situation has changed. I'm not I'm not mad at him.

Speaker 3 (06:32):
I mean, the likelihood of you giving it back is
not really a thing.

Speaker 1 (06:36):
I don't think so. But in Trump's.

Speaker 3 (06:38):
Administer, you never know, he'll go have it and sit
back and then he'll have his a statue of him.
For sure, for sure he'll have the Trump statue.

Speaker 4 (06:50):
Of I don't know, I like you said last week,
a change, It's like the job ebody a billion dolls
Elan would love.

Speaker 2 (07:02):
To have with the New York sound or the river. Yeah,
the sound he would love to be.

Speaker 1 (07:10):
He would love to do it.

Speaker 3 (07:11):
So, you know, I don't know if it's too much,
but nothing is off the table.

Speaker 2 (07:15):
So maybe it's not to your min but it could be.
I don't know from you at all. Right, let's get
into our guests.

Speaker 4 (07:25):
Well, we've got one of our friends on today, you know,
us with our friends.

Speaker 2 (07:29):
We're back season five already. With our friends.

Speaker 4 (07:31):
You know they're gonna be like, that's why we don't
like this show, because y'all only have y'all friends. Why
y'all don't have people in there, y'all don't get along
with you don't agree with.

Speaker 3 (07:39):
Yeah, because I don't want to talk to nobody that
I don't like. I don't want to give you no
light on my show. If I don't like it, that's it.
So I'm bring to people that I reck that I love,
that I think it's smart that have the same moral.
At least you got to have the same more alcomplishes.
If we don't got the same more accomplished, I'm not
going to expose my good people to your negative energy demons.

Speaker 4 (08:00):
But then that means that y'all ain't talking to all
black folks.

Speaker 2 (08:04):
Some black folks can't believe in that stuff.

Speaker 4 (08:07):
Well guess what, today we do have our friend and
I'm very very proud to have our brother on the show.
Actually not our friend, our brother Gary Chambers, who is
a fighting leader in Louisiana but also across the nation.
Gary is an educator. Gary is just a leader all around.

Speaker 2 (08:28):
I mean.

Speaker 4 (08:28):
And also I like to say he's probably one of
the more authentic scholars in our current society, just because
you know, when I say authentic, I mean that because
sometimes Gary writes some stuff and I'd be like, whoa.

Speaker 3 (08:43):
God, my grandmother just saying he don't take no wood Nickels.
He ain't taking no wood Nichols Man. That's why I
love Gary Man. He gonna tell he shoot from the hip.
You like it or you don't, but you know, is
real and that's what I love.

Speaker 4 (08:58):
And that's what it is. Gary. Thank you so much
for joining us. I think you in the state of
Louisiana right now.

Speaker 5 (09:04):
I am home today. I'm glad to be with my peek.
It's good to be with y'all.

Speaker 2 (09:08):
Thank you, Thank you, Gary.

Speaker 4 (09:09):
We don't want to keep you long because I know
if you are anything like us, but certainly me, You
and me, we're on at least twenty five thousand chains
where we're talking about black liberation with different people and
different efforts. And so, you know, before they start getting
on us for being for disappearing for a while, let

(09:31):
me hurry up and get to what we are doing.
And by the way, I'm so excited about joining with
you and being in partnership with you and co organizing
with you to put the State of the People Power
Tour together, which begins in Atlanta, Georgia at the end
of this month, at the end of April, and folks

(09:53):
are going to be learning more every day about this
incredible tour. But what I do love is that there's
a voltron that's happening among us as black folks that
come from different experiences and perspectives. But again to your point,
my son, they're all people who at least are leaning on.

Speaker 2 (10:13):
The same side.

Speaker 4 (10:14):
We can't, you know, we just can't do that are
too dangerous.

Speaker 1 (10:18):
People told me, you know, I want to hear.

Speaker 3 (10:20):
I don't want to hear a perspective that I know
is going to be detrimental to my life, like and
what happens is we deal with people so who are
so misinformed and used to being misinformed that if you
have a misinformed narrative that they can utilize to support.

Speaker 1 (10:35):
Their misinformedness, then they grab on to it. They don't
want to hear the truth.

Speaker 3 (10:40):
So if you we bring somebody on our platform and
that's misinformed, that that says something, they will take that
level and they'll cut it up and make it seem
like they said some see that's what I was saying.

Speaker 1 (10:50):
You didn't know and they don't know either.

Speaker 2 (10:52):
Yah, but people do know.

Speaker 4 (10:55):
But so Gary, thank you again for just your leadership
and everything else. And I'm looking forward to seeing you
on the road.

Speaker 5 (11:02):
Absolutely, I think this is a great opportunity for us
to build community, for us to begin to really engage
with our people.

Speaker 6 (11:11):
You know, I think a lot of what we.

Speaker 5 (11:13):
See in this country is twisted and tormenting a lot
of folks.

Speaker 6 (11:17):
Folks are losing hope in certain places.

Speaker 5 (11:19):
But when your family comes and sees about you and
tells you that there is a path forward, I think
that that shall help us out.

Speaker 2 (11:26):
Absolutely. Absolutely.

Speaker 4 (11:28):
The state of the PPL dot Com, the state OFFTHEPPL
dot com if anyone who is listening would like to
throw down with us. There's room for volunteers. There's room
for money to help support us along the way, small
donations all the way up to the big stuff for
the big expenses. It's all volunteer. No one has put

(11:51):
a dime in their personal pockets. This is all work
that we're doing because we love and care for our people,
and because we already in the streets, and so we
might as well take our efforts around the country and
meet up with our folks who, as I have been saying,
some of the people that are on the ground in
these local communities, no more than we know, they have
solutions that we need to learn, we need to hear.

(12:13):
They know how to keep their communities safe in ways
that we're trying to learn how to do. So with
that being said, I think what is also extremely important
is that we analyze some of the things that are
considered to be wins and some of the problematic behavior
surrounding our efforts and our work. And unfortunately sometimes that

(12:36):
problematic those problematic behaviors come from our own people, and
so recently in the last few weeks, Louisiana had a
big victory, which is really good because sometimes Louisiana, I
don't know what be going on in your state.

Speaker 2 (12:50):
They bugging tripping. But there were.

Speaker 4 (12:56):
Four constitutional amendments up for vote, and the people of
Louisiana voted it down. I think I saw that twenty
one percent of the people in Louisiana turned out. But
of that twenty one percent, sixty four percent of the
people voted no on all four constitutional amendments that Governor

(13:17):
Landry he supported all four. And you know, I saw
a whole bunch of things like, you know, criminalizing young people,
and there was stuff about increasing judicial oversight. I mean,
there was some real dangerous law enforcement or criminal justice
system rather pieces within these constitutional amendments. And you were,

(13:40):
you know, or rallied people to say vote no on all,
which thankfully folks showed up and they you know, did
what the local organizers told them to do in community
one another. But then also, you you know, made another
statement that I thought, and I thought you were really
kind about how you went about calling in our brother

(14:02):
fifty cent who's doing business in Louisiana, and he was
supporting the governor and supporting these these amendments, and now
I just want to say this one thing because I'm
gonna give you the floor and let you go. But
I remember a few weeks back where I on this show.
One of the segments we talked about fifty cent who

(14:26):
he had put in an I guess application or however,
I don't know exactly what it was he was working on,
but there was a potential there was a possibility that
his proposal to the state would not go through because
the electorate whoever the elected officials had voted it down

(14:47):
or voted down the Let me just make sure I
get it right.

Speaker 2 (14:51):
They voted down allowing.

Speaker 4 (14:55):
Some outside contractor to come in and do business in
the state for a while, right, there was something like
that that happened.

Speaker 2 (15:03):
You can clear it up when you speak.

Speaker 4 (15:04):
But I know he had an issue where he did
not think he was going to be able to advance
his business with Louisiana to shoot there because of something
that was happening with the legislature. And then it went through,
so he was able to get it done. So now
the question becomes what deal was done and what was

(15:27):
said to him in the process about what needed to
happen in order for him to be able to do business.
I don't know if this is relevant, but it feels
relevant to me. So you take it from me and
tell us all about the amendments and what happened and
the people's vote and also fifty cents involvement.

Speaker 5 (15:42):
Well, first of all, thank y'all for highlighting the wins
in Louisiana. Too often we are a part of the
conversation for what we don't get right. So we got
it right this time, and I'm excited about that. The
key component to this is that black voters turned out
it thirty seven percent in early voting.

Speaker 6 (16:02):
We're still going through the day to see.

Speaker 5 (16:03):
What the total black turnout was, but we know that
black voters led this effort to kill these constitutional amendments
that would have been detrimental to out of state lawyer's.

Speaker 6 (16:13):
Amendment Number one I would have given.

Speaker 5 (16:15):
The ability to create a new system to penalize out
of state lawyers. So when you look at folks like
our brother Lee Merrit who's come in to help on
different cases from out of state or being crump, it
gives them a new way to be targeted by the
judiciary and other lawyers who come into Louisiana to do help,
and there's already a mechanism to deal with that. Number
two was going to completely change our tax system. They

(16:38):
had a piece of that legislation that was set up
to kind of trick teachers into voting for it by
making them believe that they were getting a raised when
it was really just making a stipend that they had permanent.
There was also a whole bunch of different things that
they were going to do in our tax code. Number
three was the most egregious, which got a lot of
attention in conversation, which would have allowed the legislature to

(17:00):
penalize juveniles at fourteen for different crimes as adults. So
Louisiana already sends juveniles to adult penitentiary for violent offenses.
And what I appreciate about the rejection of that amendment
is it was black voters and white voters in over
fifty parishes out of sixty four that said no to

(17:20):
the governor about putting more kids in jail.

Speaker 6 (17:23):
Eighty percent of the kids in juvenile incarceration in.

Speaker 5 (17:26):
The state of Louisiana are young and black, and so
to have a unified effort that the majority of black
voters and white voters said no. Ninety percent of black
voters said no on all of these constitutional membis, and
over fifty percent of white voters in the state of
Louisiana said no to these constitutional membis. And number four
would have given the ability for them to run a

(17:48):
shorter clock on elections for the judiciary. So all four
of these policies were bad. All four of these policies
were killed. I want to shout out the Power Coalition,
all of the organizations in our state, the grassrooms organizers.

Speaker 6 (18:00):
My social media was.

Speaker 5 (18:01):
Lit up with people posting all through early voting, posting
all through the week, and what I love about this.
We went to five different cities doing town halls. We
went to Streamport where Fifties got his music, his movie
studio that he's working on.

Speaker 6 (18:15):
And while we.

Speaker 5 (18:16):
Were in Shreveport, I would have loved to have had the
opportunity to sit down with my brother before he goes
out and talks about these things in a public manner.

Speaker 6 (18:24):
But to your point to me, the legislature had a
film tax credit.

Speaker 5 (18:27):
That was within a limbo state with the new governor
trying to make changes around November, and so those changes
went through and I think what happened here was when
the governor got scared after seeing that early vote numbers
were up at thirty seven percent for black voters, he
tried to find the only black person he could get

(18:48):
to get on the phone and text black.

Speaker 6 (18:51):
People to encourage them to support it.

Speaker 5 (18:53):
Now, what I understand about fifty is he's somebody who's
a capitalist. And I don't have a problem with people
advancing themselves. I don't have a problem with people making money.
I am welcoming to people coming to Streetforce specifically, which
I believe has the bones to be one of the
greatest cities in America in Louisiana. However, I do take
issue with when you tap in with white people to

(19:15):
tell black people what we need to do. I do
struggle when you are a person who says that you
won't touch politics and you don't deal with politics. I
have no problem if you would have been advocating for
yourself to get your taxi center, but your stuff was
already approved, sir. They are resigned to inat for you,
so you didn't have to go out and advocate for them.
You didn't have to take that role, and you didn't

(19:35):
have to not check in with black folk. I think
that you know, that is a disingenuous position to say
that you're not political and then to get all up
into politics, allowing people to send a video to thousands
of black voters in the state of Louisiana and then
expect those same black people to be supportive with you
later when you aren't supportive of the things that they're
supportive of. I think it's a walking contradiction. And so

(19:58):
I reached out to different folks that I the relationship
with him that to just say, hey, can you tell
dude that this is not necessarily the direction. And people
shared with me that they felt that he would continue
to do so because he was good for his business,
and what's good for a black entrepreneur's business is not
always good for the people.

Speaker 3 (20:15):
So I just want to be clear. So what exactly
was he advocating for.

Speaker 5 (20:21):
So he advocated for a constitutional amendment number two, I
want to be specific.

Speaker 6 (20:25):
He did not advocate for one to three or four.

Speaker 5 (20:28):
He was advocating for the tax plan that would have
restructured Louisiana's tax plan, and he said that he was
in agreement with the governor on the effort to bring
businesses into Louisiana through this tax plan. The reality, though,
is this tax plan would have increased taxes for poor
people because we would have had a host of more

(20:48):
things that we paid sales taxes for. So there's this
illusion that they were going to give people a flat
tax of sorts, but it's not a flat tax.

Speaker 6 (20:55):
It would have benefited people who made over one hundred
and fifty thousand.

Speaker 5 (20:58):
Dollars a year, where they'd have more of their money
their power, but people who make under one hundred and
fifty thousand thousand years would have ended up spending more
of their money in sales SAX.

Speaker 1 (21:06):
So that seems to be the new theme.

Speaker 3 (21:09):
I think America's theme now is that we're just going
to give people who have more money, do you know,
more tax cuts, and we're just gonna on the back
of the poor people. I think that's the new theme.

Speaker 2 (21:19):
Well, it's not new, it's not a new thing.

Speaker 4 (21:20):
It's actually something that has has really been sort of
baked into the existence of the nation.

Speaker 2 (21:27):
Uh.

Speaker 4 (21:27):
But what we have done as advocates, and it's not,
of course just our generation. This has been going on
since I am just thinking about speeches I've heard Reverend
Jesse Jackson and others make. They forced the conversation one
to the forefront where it would even be discussed that
the people are not able to take home as much

(21:49):
money sometimes as the damn rich people, which makes absolutely
no sense that it's so imbalanced. But what they forced
more than that was to ensure that elected officials that
are coming to ask for our votes would go back
and fight from the federal to the state level to
ensure that the tax codes do not underrepresent our people
and over protect rather the rich. And so that didn't

(22:12):
just happen, you know, by happenstance, it's always what they've wanted,
even and that's whether it's Democrat or Republican. We've had
to address this issue multiple times, but right now we're
dealing with an administration that they don't give a damn
you know, so they're just like, we're gonna we're gonna
force it through no matter what. So thank you for

(22:32):
the clarification on the exact amendment that fifty supported. And
the reason why that's important to me is because, you know,
in the beginning, I was trying to remember what was
the episode.

Speaker 2 (22:44):
It's been so many weeks ago. Months ago.

Speaker 4 (22:47):
But now it came back to me, and that's exactly
what it was. It was the tax code, and he
was concerned about whether or not this tax code would
ultimately impact his business in a way that no longer
made it beneficial for him to do business in Louisiana.
Now I remember what that's exactly.

Speaker 6 (23:05):
That's exactly so.

Speaker 2 (23:08):
No, no, I was gonna say.

Speaker 4 (23:09):
So that that further undergirds my point about why he
would come out in support of one of these amendments,
which are not good for the community at all, is
because this is the exact thing, exact thing that he
was working with and concerned about in terms of coming
to Louisiana in the first place.

Speaker 5 (23:31):
And listen, he's been buying up property in Streetport. People
in Streetport are excited about it, But sixty percent of
Streetport voted against this. Right, So when you look at
the numbers, the raw numbers of what Louisiana's thought about this,
the majority of people thought this was a bad idea.
The other thing is this was the first time that
voters got to show Jeff Landre at the ballot box

(23:53):
what they thought about and since he got sworn in January,
of twenty twenty four, there's been no opportunity for voters
to tell you, we don't think any of these things
that you're attempting to do a good ideas. We don't
believe that incarcerating more young people is a good idea.
We don't believe that taxing more old people is a
good idea. We don't believe that more taxes for young
people who are trying to start a family having to

(24:14):
give more than money to sales taxes. And even one
of the services that they were going to tax is
like takeout services or takeout on food.

Speaker 6 (24:22):
Right, you're gonna tax every single thing.

Speaker 5 (24:24):
They just added subscriptions like Netflix and all of these
other things that they're gonna tax folks on. So basically,
every time you spend a dollar, Louisiana wants a piece
of it.

Speaker 4 (24:32):
Under Jeff Landing, hmm, absolutely, that makes a lot of
sense that the people rejected it, And you know, and
I think I would love to hear you speak to
what is kind of next, right, because once you get
people in the posture of resistance, which is exactly what
this is, and we keep telling folks that resistance does

(24:53):
not have to look like being out of the protest
or on the front lines. Resistance can look like a
lot of things, and this particular election was one of
those moments when people said, we're resisting this nonsense.

Speaker 2 (25:07):
So what do you think is next.

Speaker 4 (25:10):
In terms of helping to cultivate this attitude in this
posture of the community. The thirty seven percent of black
early voters, how do we funnel them or how do
you funnel them in Louisiana into action?

Speaker 5 (25:24):
So I'm going to continue partner with the different organizations
that are doing daily, organized and daily efforts to inform
and educate our people. I'm also kicking off some civics
for the people around the state in the next few
weeks between the work that we're going to do on
the tour, because I think that we've got to engage
and inform our people. I think the energy that people have,

(25:44):
though it was a twenty two percent turnout, twenty one
twenty two percent turnout, it is a ricochet effect as far.

Speaker 6 (25:50):
As the energy.

Speaker 5 (25:50):
People are excited, and you all know a lot of
our people like the follow a winner, and so when
things are moving in the right direction, that's going to
get more people to see their power. And I think
once people can identify through the data that, look, this
is real that black voters in this state made a difference,
made an impact, and then informed them.

Speaker 6 (26:09):
I heard somebody say something the other day recently.

Speaker 5 (26:12):
And they said that they asked Jesse Jackson, speaking of
rev that why are black folks so good at basketball
or sports and things of this nature, and he said,
it's the only place where the rules are in.

Speaker 6 (26:24):
The lightning don't change.

Speaker 5 (26:27):
When we deal with politics, the rules change often, right,
The mechanisms at which the plays move are faster.

Speaker 6 (26:36):
Than we understand before the rules change again.

Speaker 5 (26:39):
And so it's important that we inform our people about
the basic fundamentals of government, because if you understand the basics,
no matter how much they change the rules, you go
back to the constitution, You go back to the governing
documents that help you in all of the efforts. And
that's why we continue to win in the courts against
Donald Trump.

Speaker 6 (26:56):
That's why we were able to educate voters around the state.

Speaker 5 (26:59):
About bad tax policy and bad policies that would further
incarcerate our kids. But more importantly, that's how we educate
our people moving forward about all of the efforts that
the government is attempting to do against them, and really,
once you show them that, I run trust to briariance
as black people, but two people can see through the
smoke screens of who is for them and who is

(27:19):
against them.

Speaker 6 (27:20):
And people want more money in their pockets.

Speaker 5 (27:22):
They want safe communities, and they want their kids to
go to a school that is safe.

Speaker 6 (27:27):
And giving them a quality education.

Speaker 5 (27:29):
They want to ride on roads that don't bust their tires,
and they want to make sure that they can build
a family in the community that is striving of sorts.
And so that's what we are to be talking about.
We should be talking about blue collar issues. Everybody's not
going to be a millionaire. Everybody's not gonna be a billionaire,
but people are to be able to have some stability
in their households and their families.

Speaker 3 (27:51):
I definitely agree. You know, I've been dealing, I've been
grappling with the Democratic Party and black people and the
disenfranchisement because I understand how history works, right, and I realized,
like every one hundred years they've seen the disenfranchised black people,
and we just find ourselves going from one party in

(28:11):
one situation to the next. What do you think is
gonna take for us to get on the same page.
Is the Democratic Party completely done? Do black people need
to stay there? Do we need to create our own party? Like?
What do you think is the next step for us?

Speaker 6 (28:27):
I think it has to be multi faceted.

Speaker 5 (28:30):
I don't think that Democrats should be comfortable with black folks,
but I also think that we have to recognize the
tenth that shares the majority of the values that we
share today. Collectively, black folks have the ability to be
attacked in a way that other folks have not been
attacked in this country historically. And every piece of right

(28:50):
that any other marginalized group has gotten they got on
the backs of black people in our advocacy. And so
what we have to remember is we are the moral
compass of this nation, not a political party. That we
have moved the Republican Party to do what is right
and just, and we have moved the Democratic Party to
do what is writing just. What we need to do
is decide what is the collective agenda and posture of

(29:13):
Black America and demand that whichever party it is, give
us what we ask for.

Speaker 6 (29:18):
And I think that when we put ourselves into that
position where.

Speaker 5 (29:21):
We are clear on two, three, five things that we
want to see together that whatever entity yields to us
the results that the people desire is the entity that
we build powered with. I don't think that the Republican
Party is currently in a posture that is welcoming to that.
But I also think that the Democratic Party is in
the wrong posture because I think the Democratic Party, in

(29:44):
the advent of white voters pivoting more towards Trump, they
have said, well, we need to figure out how to
go fish them out of the pond, instead of saying,
if we are looking at an electoral map, how do
I shift to the place where the majority of my
base where ninety two percent of Black women over eighty
percent of black men voting for the Democratic.

Speaker 6 (30:02):
Ticket in Kamala Aarris and Tim Wallas.

Speaker 5 (30:05):
Why is there not a southern strategy focused on Mississippi, Louisiana, Alabama,
North Carolina, and Georgia as the new Blue Wall, as
the battleground states.

Speaker 6 (30:15):
And we can begin shaping and determining that today.

Speaker 5 (30:18):
And I believe that that's a part of what the
black community around this country needs to do. And that's
not to diminish the places where black folks are in
like you all in New York and New Jersey, in
Philly and Detroit. But it is to say that fifty
five percent of our people living in Deep South, and
if we are strategic about the critical mass that exists there,
then we can take this country and run it for

(30:39):
the next hundred years.

Speaker 2 (30:40):
Absolutely, let me before you go.

Speaker 4 (30:42):
I love for you to react to some of the
two elections that happened just a few days after the
Louisiana positive vote no on the constitutional amendments. In Florida,
we saw that Florida did what Florida does, which is

(31:03):
in the congressional race the special election, they absolutely, in
my judgment, I'm sure you agree, chose the wrong person
to lead there.

Speaker 2 (31:12):
And then in Wisconsin.

Speaker 4 (31:15):
We saw it was the judge ship right Supreme Court,
the judgeship election, and we saw that a woman. You
know what, I'm gonna be honest with you. So first
of all, let me just get this out that the
people rejected the Republican candidate who also is a Trump
supporter and was supported by Elon Musk. So it's not

(31:38):
just being a Republican, because there's Republican and then there's
Republicans that aligned with the oligarchy, right that aligned with
the oligarchy, and those individuals are just a complete no
for us.

Speaker 2 (31:50):
So there's a woman.

Speaker 4 (31:52):
Who was elected, and you know, we're glad that we
got this woman in position. Cool, But what I'm really
concerned about, and I want to hear your opinion, It's
almost like when I was watching her, I watched the
whole speech, and I'm glad that the other gentlemen didn't win,
But I never heard her say anything that made me

(32:14):
feel like this was going to be a judge who
would go to the bench and not just be there
as a blockade for what we're fighting against in terms
of the Trump administration and their oppressive tactics, but also
what are you fighting for, Like you know, and I'm
not talking about just women's right to choose. Those things

(32:35):
are cool, but I'm talking about the people of Wisconsin, and.

Speaker 2 (32:41):
You have black people who are also there.

Speaker 4 (32:43):
And I'm not saying that she should have called black
people out, but I just never feel like we're getting
somebody who is going to be an advocate for the
issues of the most vulnerable populations in our states and
in our society. And I just want to know, like,
do you feel that or you kind of like, we
ain't got time to worry about that right now, let's

(33:05):
just block these people, which is also a strategy.

Speaker 6 (33:09):
I think.

Speaker 5 (33:11):
Two things in that one, I'm glad that she won
that race is indicative. I saw a Tesla and figure
rot post something while where the Republicans spent more, the
Democrats spent more money in Florida, and the Republicans spent
more money in Wisconsin. So Elon helped the Republican there

(33:33):
in Wisconsin, and Democrats were trying to help the Democrat
down in Florida, and the Republican won in Florida, and
the Democrat won. So money doesn't always win people. Power does,
and so I think that's one thing. Number two, to
your point, Wisconsin is black, eight percent Hispanic, over seventy

(33:54):
plus percent white. I don't anticipate that white people who
represent majority white people will be talking about black issues.
And that's as a Deep Southerner who understands how white
candidates chase the white electorate, and the fewer of us
there are, the less they feel they need to address
our issues. And so I think that that is what

(34:17):
we see in Wisconsin and why I am saying that
Wisconsin should no longer be a battle ground state. I
don't oppose people advocating for the people that they mostly represent,
but that is detrimental to people like us when you
especially when you're trying to inspire people in Milwaukee to
get out and vote for somebody like that, right, and
so I think that that is the give and take

(34:39):
that we play in many of these places because some
of us are in these communities because this is what
we know, this is what we love. Some of us
are there because this is where opportunity resides for us.
But the reality is understanding for us as black people,
that the smaller the demographics are for us, the less
we are considered. The reason I believe that black people
are easier to get elected state wide in a Illinois

(35:03):
or a Wisconsin, even in New York, is because black
people are less of the population than they are in
the Deep South, where we are over thirty percent of
the population in Mississippi, over thirty percent of the population
in Louisiana, over twenty eight percent, twenty something percent of
the population in North Carolina. The higher that percentage goes

(35:25):
of the black population in the state, the fewer opportunities
exist for black people to be able to get a
state wide position because once your demographics are higher.

Speaker 6 (35:35):
The belief by some within the white community.

Speaker 5 (35:38):
And I want to be very clear that I'm saying some,
because sometime when black folks say certain thing, they act
like we all races.

Speaker 6 (35:42):
In April, but were tell the truth.

Speaker 5 (35:44):
But some white people believe that if you let these
black people take this, they gonna take it all.

Speaker 6 (35:50):
And the proof of that is this picture behind me.

Speaker 5 (35:52):
The last time black people took all state a bunch
of state positions in Louisiana was eighteen seventy two. Ister
Done was elected as a lieutenant governor of Louisiana. Around
that time, we had a black lieutenant governor. We had
a black governor for about thirty days. We had a
black secretary of Education and a black secretary of the
treasurer in the eighteen hundreds. You know, So when you

(36:15):
process that, that is what many in white America are
trying to prevent. They don't want to see a makeup
in this country where black people take the mechanisms of power,
because that's how you ended up with Southern University in
Granma State University, right. Those institutions came because when our
ancestors got these positions.

Speaker 6 (36:35):
Of power, they created avenues.

Speaker 5 (36:37):
And institutions for us to be educated, They created pathways
and pipeways for us to be on industry, and those
folks saw that as an attack on them because they
have always seen us as less.

Speaker 4 (36:48):
Than in privut And you think that that has something
to do with why they overwhelmingly supported the voter ID law.

Speaker 6 (36:56):
Absolutely. Absolutely.

Speaker 5 (36:58):
I think that when you look at white voters, don't
they think that these things make sense?

Speaker 2 (37:03):
Right?

Speaker 6 (37:04):
That why are we as black people saying that this
is a problem. Just don't get tried d right.

Speaker 5 (37:08):
They don't recognize all the hurdles that exist within our community,
and quite frankly, they don't.

Speaker 4 (37:13):
Care, right, Yeah, And that's what I was trying to articulate.
Thank you, Gary, but that's what I was trying to articulate.
Like I listened to her speaking the new Judge, but
I just felt like, Okay, but you also know that
this other thing is happening where black folks and brown
folks will be disenfranchised with the voter ID law. And

(37:34):
I didn't hear anything that made me feel like she
was going to be an advocate against or for whichever
way we want to position it that as well. But
I think it makes sense. I mean, the percentage is
what it is. The you know, when we don't have
a critical mass, we absolutely cannot expect that they are

(37:55):
going to pay attention to us, because they don't even
want to pay attention to us when we do have
critical mass, and so we would be you know, fooling
ourselves to believe otherwise. But I don't know, I was
just watching. I was I'm you know, I'm beyond you know, obviously,
we're all beyond party politics, and I'm definitely beyond the symbolism,
and I'm beyond the coalition of white women and black

(38:17):
women because I'm not you know, that has not done
us well at all in many respects. And I'm not
asking y'all, I'm telling you, you know, what I have
experienced as a black woman. It's actually been quite plain painful.
That does not mean, to your point that they always
try to, you know, say that we're being hateful. It
doesn't mean that there are not some important coalitions and

(38:38):
that they are not white women who are doing great
work and standing with us, walking with us, funding our
movements and you know, doing the best that they can,
but I'm talking about overall, it's actually pretty dangerous when
we as women of color link up with white women
who haven't done the work and the processing of their
own bias and the pain that is caused to us

(38:59):
with their tears. And so when I was listening to her,
I just wanted to be a little bit more inspired,
and I kind of fell back in my seat and said, damn.
But I know if I say that, but which it
is going to be said publicly. But if I would
have said that at the night when she was elected,
people would have been like, you being negative, Betty, when
right now, what we need is to ensure that these

(39:20):
folks do not advance their agenda any more than they
already have with Project twenty twenty five and all the
diabolical things that they're attempting to do. So with that
being said, I do understand that we have to have strategies.
Not all we're not gonna get everything that we want.
But it just felt like to me, like damn, Okay,
I guess thank you, thank you, thank you.

Speaker 5 (39:41):
That's how I f I think the way we get
to look at that is that we don't get an advocate,
but we do get a vote good, Right, we don't
get somebody who's gonna be voting for us, but we
do hope that the votes that she cast on there
as a justice on that court will be on the
side of just sub equity and fairness. I believe that

(40:02):
there are white people in positions of power in the
Democratic Party that have displayed that, uh, that that are
holding the line on some of the key issues for
us on the bench, and it is my hope that
she will do those things.

Speaker 6 (40:16):
What I have learned is I don't desire to spend
my time.

Speaker 5 (40:22):
Trying to get folks to do things that I believe
they don't really want to do.

Speaker 6 (40:25):
When it comes to people like that, right.

Speaker 5 (40:29):
But I'm focused more on trying to get those that
do think the same to mobilize in a way that
when we are on one accord, it forces them to
do what is just. It forces them uh to become
advocates in this moment, and I think we are at
the impetus of seeing that for our generation, that there's
a point where the temperature will get rised enough and

(40:52):
the strategy will meet enough that we will be able
to create the environment. I think uh that makes more
of them join us in the courus that says enough
is enough on these issues.

Speaker 3 (41:03):
Speaking of that, I want to end with this Corey
Booker in his historical Full of Buster. Do you believe
that it's motivational, it's going to aspire? Do you think
it's going to give some energy to the people to
the resistance?

Speaker 1 (41:16):
What do you think about it?

Speaker 2 (41:18):
You know.

Speaker 5 (41:20):
It inspired me in the way that I know what
strom Thurman was. And strom Thurman was a hate for
racist segregationist from South Carolina.

Speaker 6 (41:32):
Who hated black people, and he stood in the well.

Speaker 5 (41:37):
Of the US Senate for twenty four hours to stand
in the way of civil rights.

Speaker 6 (41:42):
Now, my only pushback is I wish.

Speaker 5 (41:44):
That there would have been some piece of legislation attached
to what the senator was standing for. However, him being
willing to stand for twenty five hours to break the
record of strong theurnment, to say that in this hour,
what we are dealing with in this country, it's so egregious,
so immoral, so unjust, so unequitable and wrong, I think

(42:05):
will inspire people. I think for people who are disconnected
from the process, And that's why I think that some
of us that are in this work don't realize that
for somebody who's disconnected from the process, tapped out, not
paying attention. Because we always talk about the people who
do vote, but there's a whole lot of folks who
have not voted. But when they saw that brother staying
there with his moral conviction and talk for twenty five hours.

(42:28):
You don't get to three hundred million people liking something
without people from all backgrounds, all walks of life, people
who did vote, people who didn't vote, deciding that this
was something that got my attention, made me feel something
of value and may inspire more people to move.

Speaker 6 (42:45):
I don't know.

Speaker 5 (42:48):
The total impact that will come from it, but I
hope that it is something that inspires more people to
stand up and do something in the critical moments where
that's standing up will yield us a lockage or the
passage of something that advances all people.

Speaker 6 (43:03):
Within this touch.

Speaker 4 (43:04):
Yeah, no, I agree, one hundred percent. I give a
lot of credit to Corey Booker for what he did.
It's not easy for those of us who have to
talk for a living. It's not you even we run
out of words to say in thoughts and you get tired.
And you could tell in his eyes when he announced
that he was going to do the filibuster, which you know,
philibuster is supposed to be more so about blocking votes.

(43:27):
But he did block the business of the Senate, and
you know, you could see in his.

Speaker 2 (43:32):
Eyes that he had that fire.

Speaker 4 (43:34):
First of all, he is from New Jersey and so
he had that look like I gotta do something because
I know to do nothing is morally unjust and I
must step up.

Speaker 2 (43:45):
I have to, I have to step up. And so
I'm very proud of what he did.

Speaker 4 (43:48):
And if for the naysayers out there, if it wasn't
important what he did, then strong Thurman would not have
used the same mechanism to try to fight against our rights.
So people know that what he did was impactful, it
was important, and the people who do nothing have a
lot to say, as you said, my son, have a
lot to say about people who are actually doing something,

(44:11):
and it's our job to push him and others in
the Senate and in the entire federal government to do
more to protect us in the stand up. So I
just want to say thank you to you, Gary for
being a very critical voice and a partner in the work,
and thank you for being so brilliant because every time
I talk to you, I feel like I learned something.

(44:32):
I sharpen my skills, and that's what we're supposed to do,
you know, for one another. So God bless you and
thank you so much for coming on the TMI show today.

Speaker 2 (44:42):
We appreciate you, my brother, Thank you both.

Speaker 5 (44:46):
I really appreciate you both to me and my Sign
and all of the work that you do.

Speaker 6 (44:50):
My Sign has been a brother that I have looked
at from the distance.

Speaker 5 (44:53):
You know, to Meeka, you and I have been back
and forth for years, but I never had the opportunity
to tell my son how much I appreciate the way
you say up as a black man, uh and the
way that you are confident in your position as a
black man.

Speaker 6 (45:05):
Brother. We need you. I appreciate you, and I look
forward to all of the.

Speaker 5 (45:10):
Work to making masign that we're gonna do together to
make this world a more just and equitable place for
all our children.

Speaker 3 (45:16):
Feeling his mutual king, man, I appreciate you. Shout out
to our brother Gary Chambers. He's always educating and speaking
truth to power. I remember the first time I saw him.
He was at a community meeting calling out one of
the elected officials, and he was reading this lady to
the point she had to walk out, you know, and

(45:37):
it was just amazing and just watching his trajectory continue
to grow, continue to educate. You know, I know he's
going to be one of the figures in Louisiana very soon.
We're gonna vote him, and we're gonna make sure he
gets voted in.

Speaker 4 (45:50):
Yeah, he got going that he can't never stop because
he's supposed to be.

Speaker 3 (45:55):
Like when you listen to him, you know, he loves people.
He's for just yeah, he knows what.

Speaker 1 (46:01):
He's talking about.

Speaker 3 (46:01):
He wants what's right and equitable, and anybody who wants
that is on the side of my side anyway, you know.
So that brings me to a completely different subject, you know,
for my I don't get them today now. It comes
from just a lot of just different things, you know,

(46:22):
just being a black man in America, you know, and
you see so many different accusations you hear, you know,
people being charged with sexual assault and assault. Just even
last week, you know, with the young Scooter situation, right,
and I don't know the whole situation, but I know
a woman called the police on him and he ended

(46:45):
up losing his life, right, and the accusations that she
made at that time just weren't true.

Speaker 1 (46:51):
For Yeah, they weren't true.

Speaker 3 (46:54):
Lady called the police and said that he had drug
a woman out, beating from her kids. He was doing
all this stuff. She constantly called and they came over.
He ran, ended up trying to climb over a gate,
end up cutting his legs to the point where he
died trying to run away from the police.

Speaker 2 (47:12):
That he dragged her.

Speaker 3 (47:13):
Yeah, she was saying no, she didn't say it was
even herbody. She said it was another woman, and then
she came back.

Speaker 2 (47:18):
They found out it wasn't.

Speaker 3 (47:20):
So they found out because this situation that never happened.
So when they went to try to find there was
no person at the house saying this happened. Yeah, they
found out this lady she said she made calls because
he had done this to her in the past.

Speaker 6 (47:32):
Wow.

Speaker 4 (47:32):
I was wondering about the leg because I saw that
they said his leg turned. Then you know that he died,
and I thought maybe he had like gang green or
something like that. I was thinking about trying to figure
it out, but you know, moving on to the next day,
it never occurred to me. I never read the story.

Speaker 1 (47:49):
Yeah, my God, it was, you know.

Speaker 3 (47:51):
So they're still going to the lady has been arrested
since you know, she's been arrested for false accusations leading
to the death.

Speaker 1 (47:58):
So it's it's a situation, you know.

Speaker 3 (48:00):
And in this situation, it's actually been recourse in consequences
for making course because he lost his life.

Speaker 4 (48:07):
Right, But there's gonna be some fool that's gonna say,
why did he run?

Speaker 3 (48:11):
Yeah, I mean black men gonna run from the police, because.

Speaker 2 (48:15):
Not all black men are gonna run.

Speaker 1 (48:16):
There's a lot, not all. I'm not saying all.

Speaker 3 (48:19):
But when you come from where we come from, most
of us do not want to have any police contact.
So we're trying to get the word all never came
on my mouth. I said, black men. They're all black men.
There are a strong, you know, constituency of black men
that are going to get out the way of the police.
They do not want any police contact. And you don't

(48:41):
never know.

Speaker 1 (48:41):
What he was doing.

Speaker 3 (48:42):
He pbably has drugs whatever, nobody I'm not saying anything.
He probably anything, probably had a warrant, you know, he know, he.

Speaker 1 (48:48):
Didn't phase one.

Speaker 2 (48:49):
Probably he may have.

Speaker 3 (48:50):
He may have had you know, there's a possib Well,
he just didn't want to deal with the police.

Speaker 1 (48:55):
You know what I'm saying.

Speaker 4 (48:56):
That's I mean, that's that's also that is also a
deafening reminder of what I was talking about earlier, Like, yes, absolutely,
we all have responsibility, the kids that I'm you know,
the whole story called O City. Yes, everybody has responsibility,
but the system also has to be accountable for how

(49:18):
people feel about interacting with police and law enforcement in
the criminal justice system. That also has to be a
part of the conversation, because otherwise there's no reason why
he should not have been able.

Speaker 2 (49:33):
Man, I gotta go read not even give.

Speaker 3 (49:35):
My But that brings me back to my original point
was what I don't get is how black men are criminalized,
accused of sexual assault, accused of rape, accused of all
these things, and in a lot of instances, when these
accusations are found to be false, there's no recourse, there's

(49:59):
no apology, there's no public stating the hey, this has
been false.

Speaker 1 (50:04):
Right after you taken especially for a.

Speaker 3 (50:06):
Sexual assault, after you taking a man's livelihood, you taken
his deals, especially when it did you are a celebrity,
and they come, you get fired, You don't lost this contract.
You can't get hired there, you can't did this. All
of this stuff is taken from you. And then if
the situation is found to be false and the charges
will be dropped and all of this, they don't give

(50:27):
you none of this back, right, you still stay and
they don't even publicly. No, there's no loud admittance this
was wrong, right, all of those the tmzs and all
of the main blog sites and all of the main
shows you want news after they do a little post
in the newspaper to say, hey, you know he's fine,
not good, you didn't this one was dropped, this and that.

(50:50):
But there's never as loud as the accusations, right, So,
and there's never really anything that gives you back the
time you lost, you know, give you back the money
you lost, give you back the opportunity as they loss.

Speaker 1 (51:00):
So I really don't get why.

Speaker 3 (51:02):
I don't get why people don't think it's important to to,
you know, set the record straight and redirect the negativity
from someone who you have focused the negativity.

Speaker 1 (51:14):
Right you, You.

Speaker 3 (51:15):
Was very adamant about making sure that you had the
first news and you want to report it breaking news
and such has been, you know, accused of assault and
sexual assault.

Speaker 1 (51:24):
And rape and all these things.

Speaker 3 (51:26):
But then it's a two second, Oh, charges have been
dropped and next we're on to this.

Speaker 2 (51:32):
No, not just sexual assault.

Speaker 3 (51:33):
But it's mainly sexual I've lived because listen to me,
let me, let me, let me say, let me just
finish this, right. I have been paying attention to Diddy's case.
Now once again, I cannot confirm or to not any
accusations or not. But I know in the last few
weeks I've heard many of the cases that was against

(51:55):
him dropped silently, right because I just happened to do
research and I know, but I know they already had
surviving diddies.

Speaker 1 (52:04):
They got all type of.

Speaker 3 (52:05):
Shit to where you're completely throwing this man through the dirt.
But nobody is saying that twenty one cases have been
dropped or they found that this didn't have any significance.
When they was talking about the guy who Little whatever
his name was, to produce a guy and they said
he did all of this, and they put this man
name and accusations and the shootings and all this. He

(52:26):
had a whole thing that they put all over the world.
And people saw this, right, and these things were, these
things were instrumental in that man going to jail. Because
I don't know all of the things, but I know
I've been telling people very just very intently now that
cases are built.

Speaker 1 (52:45):
On the internet.

Speaker 3 (52:45):
They're not no longer built from evidence and this and
that they have Internet task force that look into these kids,
that look and when you make an accusation, these people
start building a case and doing an investigation based on
what people are seeing online.

Speaker 1 (53:00):
This is a fact. This ain't something I'm thinking.

Speaker 3 (53:02):
Like in the last few weeks I've watched I've seen
cases be built online with people just making accusations about people.

Speaker 1 (53:09):
There has been no connection.

Speaker 3 (53:10):
Even when you look at the guy Kivy D Keith
D went online and talked about shit that they have
no literal physical evidence about nothing he said other than
what he said and it tied him to Tupac's murder.
He's locked up right now with no physical evidence to
cooperate anything he said, but just the words that he
said because he was online just talking about.

Speaker 2 (53:32):
The words that you say should be no.

Speaker 3 (53:36):
But that's not true because people go online and cap
all day.

Speaker 1 (53:39):
These people do things for content.

Speaker 2 (53:41):
But that's ignorant but that's what.

Speaker 1 (53:43):
But that's the world we in now.

Speaker 3 (53:45):
So if you sit here and if the thing is this,
if I have a big enough following and I sit
on this platform and say, yo, such and such shots
somebody and I know he's involved, but I'm saying, I'm
telling I did it.

Speaker 6 (53:57):
No.

Speaker 1 (53:57):
But what I'm trying to he said, I know who
did this, and I was there when.

Speaker 2 (54:01):
This happened, right, So that's not saying dating.

Speaker 1 (54:02):
But that's just here. That's like anything. But that's the internet.
The Internet. People want they want cloud but understand that.

Speaker 3 (54:11):
But it should have been evidence right before things were
evidence based. If you said something we did, we did
this is a fact. Well, because I should not be
able to take you off the street and have you
sitting in the cell without being able to get bailed
out any that.

Speaker 2 (54:29):
That's just not I think that you are what I hear.
Let me be careful.

Speaker 4 (54:35):
We ain't starting out our new season with you know,
not being able to hear one another. But I do
sense of conflating of a lot of different things. And
one well I was I was giving you an instant
and I was instances.

Speaker 2 (54:52):
Well you said it.

Speaker 4 (54:53):
I mean, if you want to say more about your
original point that there's no recourse oftentimes you said that
you say, most of the times these things are not true.
You said most of the time when these things are
not true isact there's no real recourse to address the
harm that has been done to an individual, particularly a
black man, who has suffered as a you know, as

(55:15):
a as a result of it. So I think that
point I support one hundred percent. I think as it
relates to particular issues.

Speaker 2 (55:24):
And cases and what have you, that.

Speaker 4 (55:28):
You know, and the whole When you said that most
of these cases sexual assault and other things like that,
you said they, you know, most of them when they're
getting a lot of them get dismissed and nothing is
done about it. And what I want to say is
that the stats are otherwise that most of the time

(55:49):
when someone says that they were sexually assaulted, it is true.

Speaker 1 (55:53):
No, that's not you just you changed.

Speaker 2 (55:55):
With So maybe I did miss it.

Speaker 3 (55:56):
I said when those cases are dismissed, if they are dismissed,
I didn't say that most of the time they're dismissed.

Speaker 4 (56:04):
That's that's said. A lot of the times when they're dismissed. Okay, Well,
I just because I wanted to make sure that we
say the stats are that the majority of the time
people don't even say they were they don't even tell
the truth about being sex and a lot of and
a lot of times, a lot of times cases can

(56:26):
also be dismissed. Now, I'm not so that there's nobody
that's gonna go and say, oh, Tamika Mallory is saying
it's this, that, and the third, because I am not
speaking to any particular person's case, including puff right. But
what I will say is that there are times when
cases are dismissed that it does not mean that the

(56:46):
person is not guilty of the action. It just means,
like you said, to your point, and we get it,
we have to in many ways depend on the criminal
justice system to do the right thing in which we
already know to deal with that. But that a lot
of times a person is either unwilling to go but

(57:06):
so far because your life can be ruined and or
the evidence might be older, or you know, you might
not be able to find the people or get them
to speak up for you about what happened. And there's
a whole lot of factors that go into that. So
does that mean that the person who has been harmed

(57:28):
deserves the repair. Ok So maybe, but then no, I'm
just saying it makes it it's hard to have that
conversation because it's kind of like, what about the people
who just lost even though they were right?

Speaker 3 (57:44):
Well, but that's just like saying, what about somebody who
was proven innocent that trial and goes home, Like do
we still the consequences? Do we still say, hey, they
should be in jail? Do we still sing all nout?

Speaker 1 (57:57):
Okay?

Speaker 3 (57:57):
So if we talk about due process, and we talking
about the law and due process their individuals, both of
our lives are.

Speaker 1 (58:04):
Being impacted, right, And if you accuse me.

Speaker 2 (58:08):
Of something, you should be able to And because at
the end of the case.

Speaker 3 (58:13):
Because at the end of the day, once there is
a case and we can't prove it, then we can't
assume that somebody is lying or didn't like we We
we have to go by the merit of what.

Speaker 1 (58:22):
The case is.

Speaker 2 (58:24):
So I agree with that. So I agree with that.

Speaker 4 (58:26):
So I agree with that, And I think that I
was saying that it's conflated because it's some parts of
what you're saying that I'm like, Okay, I completely get
that there's some other parts that I get concerned about,
just because I understand the dynamics of when people come
forward with their stories and what have you. But if
we focus on the overall premise of what you're saying,

(58:50):
and it is true that I also saw that, you know,
the charges were dismissed against puff, I think for a
little somebody like you said, I don't know the man's name,
but I saw on one place in a blink and
I little something anyway something, but anyway, little Rod, little Rod,

(59:10):
I did see that. And you're right, just using that
as an example, everything in that lawsuit was everywhere, every
single page of it, and I mean, it's so horrific
to read that. If any of it is true, it's like,
oh my god, Like this is crazy, right, And so yeah,
it's everywhere, and then a judge dismisses it, and it's

(59:33):
kind of like we might have it may have been
in one place. So using a high profile case like
that to make the point that it's louder when you
are accused or when it's something negative or when it's
in the red. But on the other side, when something
has been done that is more so in your favor,

(59:53):
you don't really hear from people because when folks have decided,
no matter right, wrong of indifferent, that you are what
you are and they just decided it, they don't even
care to process any other information.

Speaker 2 (01:00:06):
And that's not just in his situation, that's for me.

Speaker 4 (01:00:09):
You know, that has been the case multiple times in
my life when I've been slandered and told I said,
you know, they label me as all kinds of things,
and when a good thing happens, or when I do
something to attempt to, you know, address.

Speaker 2 (01:00:25):
Whatever this looming.

Speaker 4 (01:00:29):
Narrative, you don't really even you You hardly can even
find us responding on me responding. So, for instance, the
whole situation with Samiria Rights, when she just you know,
said that whatever, that we was taking advantage. She didn't
even know your name, so whoever told her on your name?

Speaker 2 (01:00:49):
She said missy or.

Speaker 4 (01:00:51):
Something whatever, Sonnie, Sonni whatever, And you know, in saying that,
you know, we were taking advantage of families and you
using her child and all of that and benefiting from uh,
the loss of life of our of our people. You know,
when we responded to it by saying, because there were

(01:01:12):
so many people were like nah, you know, y'all must've
excuse me, y'all must have been working with her and
you use her child. I'm like, bro, we never made
a T shirt, never even met the lady, And I
only said maybe we met her one time because it's possible,
like we could have been at a conference or something
and I don't remember, so I didn't want to say
absolutely never, but I'm pretty sure that I never even
met her before, just you know, after that happened, I

(01:01:34):
met her, but that you would you could hardly find
that if you google my name, you will hardly find
where I am responding to the statements that she made
against the person she never met, ever had no conversation with.
So it's true. I mean that I get. I just

(01:01:56):
want to make sure. It just triggers me. And you know,
I think about so many things that happened to me
where I didn't even feel comfortable saying it because I
didn't I never even believe that there would be due
process for me, let alone, when you speak about due
process for us.

Speaker 2 (01:02:14):
So it's it's just it's a tough conversation.

Speaker 3 (01:02:16):
It is a tough conversation because I just the thing is,
I've just like, even when we look at the situation
with jay Z. Right, a lady admitted to lying, like
literally admitted to lying. She did, and there's no recourse,
there's nothing. This man they ran this man named through
the mother about.

Speaker 1 (01:02:34):
A teenage girl.

Speaker 3 (01:02:35):
Kid, Yeah, you understand something like So he he has
to and this is a billionaire, so he had to
forcefully say I'm going to suit everybody.

Speaker 1 (01:02:44):
It's just not gonna go away.

Speaker 3 (01:02:45):
I know he's probably going to the press and making
sure that because he realizes how this stains his life
and his career. He realizes that the average person doesn't
come back from even accusations of this. So if somebody
admits to lying about something, if you find somebody and
it's not just that, okay, it wasn't the evidence. This
person was still steadfast when somebody admits to lying, when

(01:03:07):
you find out a person is lying, when you find
out they made something up, there should have to be
some level of record. This should have to be the
same people who publish that. There should be some type
of media etiquette or media something that demands that if
you are somebody who is on the front page posting
somebody's name for twenty days straight, you need to post

(01:03:29):
the recourse if you find out that there's a lot
the same amount of days.

Speaker 4 (01:03:33):
Yeah, well, I think there's definitely a need to balance
out some of what we see happening, because there's even
you know, stuff where I don't know, I've been having
conversations with different people who feel like celebrities also, celebrities
are human people. And yes, do they have more privilege,
They have more resources, which therefore makes them more susceptible

(01:03:54):
to a whole bunch of things. Absolutely, But I don't
think that it means that they should just be harassed into,
you know, the harassment that we see some people going
through and that so that's that's also another conversation.

Speaker 2 (01:04:08):
But you know, we can stay here all.

Speaker 4 (01:04:09):
Day because it's it's it's a sensitive topic, but it's
a good topic to discuss because there has to be
a way that people feel comfortable that right that if
I do do something or if i'm if my name

(01:04:33):
is clear, that it's not like it doesn't matter.

Speaker 3 (01:04:37):
Mm hm.

Speaker 2 (01:04:38):
That that's true. I should be.

Speaker 3 (01:04:40):
I mean it should be, especially when rape and sexual
assault is the most egregious thing that a man could
be accused of.

Speaker 4 (01:04:47):
Yeah, well it's and I just I just I'm asking you,
just listening to you. I just hope that you are
able to expand your argument beyond set sexual violence in general.
I think I just want to expand that because I
think when you when you start and kind of end,

(01:05:07):
even though you did bring up some other incidents, but
when you start and end with sexual violence, it's hard
for people to hear. And so sometimes when we want
to educate folks on issues what you're.

Speaker 3 (01:05:21):
Saying, but you don't think it's hard for men.

Speaker 2 (01:05:23):
And I'm not.

Speaker 4 (01:05:26):
I understand that That's not what I'm talking about, because
the job here is to be able to bring people
with you so that other folks can start to get
and see the parallels, so they could be like, Okay,
now I see what you're saying. But I hear what
you're saying, so I just want to let me just
finish it.

Speaker 2 (01:05:41):
I'm saying.

Speaker 4 (01:05:42):
So all I'm saying is sexual violence is not the
only thing. And in fact, that's what I was trying
to get to earlier. The number of people accused of
sexual violence, especially those where it is determined to be false,
it's lower than some of the other things that black
men are accused of. Right, So I'm just saying that

(01:06:05):
it's helpful to a person who might be triggered that
they can hear it from different perspectives, so that when
you are talking about sexual violence, they get it because
the concept has already been cemented.

Speaker 3 (01:06:18):
And I understand what you're saying, but I want you
to understand this. If a man goes on a Snoop
Dogg was on trial for murder, right when he beat
the murder case, he still was America's darling.

Speaker 1 (01:06:31):
You can beat a murder.

Speaker 3 (01:06:32):
Case and still go back to doing anything you want
in this world. Right, people act like it never even happened. Right,
you can go back. If Samiraa Wright said what you
want about me, I don't really care. Right, is not
gonna affect my everyday life, Like people are not gonna
look at sol Samia Race.

Speaker 1 (01:06:48):
Some people might. It really doesn't affect me.

Speaker 3 (01:06:51):
But when you put that on my name, right, it's
going to affect my life for the rest of my life.
So if there's not no recourse to change the course
of that, then that's what I'm trying to tell you.

Speaker 1 (01:07:03):
That is the most egregious thing that you put on
a man.

Speaker 2 (01:07:07):
Yeah, and.

Speaker 3 (01:07:10):
This is pretty much I mean you probably I'm.

Speaker 4 (01:07:14):
Not saying that that's not terrible, and I'm not saying
that it should happen, And I'm saying it absolutely needs
to be addressed and it's wrong and it should not happen,
and no one should be accusing a man of something
like that that becomes a scarlet letter or whatever on
his back.

Speaker 2 (01:07:29):
But I'm but I we have to stop.

Speaker 4 (01:07:32):
But what I'm saying is that in order for people
to be able to understand it, it's very similar to
how you tell me sometimes I have to educate people
over here in order to get them to understand this.
And so the concept, in my judgment, should not just
be rooted in sexual violence, because black men have been

(01:07:53):
accused of a lot of things that also have been damaging,
maybe not quite as damaging as sexual violence, but there
are other things that happen. So I'm just hoping that
when you speak about this and I'm not here, that
you can broaden the conversation to include some other things
that can be very damage into a black man or
a black person that is not corrected.

Speaker 3 (01:08:16):
Well, I mean, other than pedophilia. I don't really see
what it is, but I'll do some research on it,
you know, and see what I could come up with.
But you know, on that note, that brings us to
the end of another episode, very powerful conversation. Shout out
to our brother Gary Chambers for his insight and his
knowledge and he's just love of justice and what we

(01:08:38):
need to be doing at this time. And shout out
to you Tamika for always giving, you know, a good
conversation even though we might not agree on the particulars,
but you always give me a perspective that I have
to go back to the drawing board and just listen
to because sometimes you know, I'm very strong on my
convasion when I leave some and came to the table
with it.

Speaker 1 (01:08:58):
But you know, we've on to the point where we don't.

Speaker 3 (01:09:01):
Fight, we don't disagree as much as we used to.
Actually we get a little better, but we're gonna give
a little pushback. We give a little push because that's
how the show used is. The show started with I
don't agree, I don't agree. That used to be season five.

Speaker 2 (01:09:14):
Not that we agree, but we know how to be disagreeable.

Speaker 4 (01:09:16):
We know how to how to have different perspectives without
being disagreeable.

Speaker 2 (01:09:21):
So there you go.

Speaker 3 (01:09:23):
And with that said, we love you. I'm not gonna
always be right, Tamika. The marriage and I can always
be wrong, but we will both always and I mean always,
be authentic peace. That's how we own it.