February 6, 2024 • 51 mins
We are joined by the talented and wonderful Princess Daazhraii Johnson, who is an actor, producer, writer, and concerned citizen of the universe. She is the former Creative Producer and still is a writer for the Emmy-nominated PBS series Molly of Denali, which features a Native American female as the lead character. She shares about her journey in becoming a content creator, current projects and motivations, and what it takes to move from dreaming about film and television to become a contributor on large level projects. The future of Indigenous content creation is bright and shiny, and we are thankful to all who have helped Native American voices break into the mainstream of film and television.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:15):
They tried to Colinizzes, try to genocide. Yet we're still
here with the tongue on broke and Gonnaya just to
cut you on, what's tayat? Welcome to the Tongue Unbroken, folks.
(00:38):
I am so glad you were here. I'm glad you're listening.
I am really excited about today's episode and to spend
some time with a good friend of mine, Princess Johnson,
who is an incredible content creator, actor, writer, producer, just
doing amazing things. And I thought it would be great
(01:00):
to just hear who she is, where she's from, and
then we'll talk about what kinds of things she's working on.
And the third segment will be about how would you
become an awesome creative who's working on Hollywood productions and
is doing amazing things, especially for all your little Native
kids out there and all your little Native creators out
(01:22):
there who who have big dreams. We're talking to folks
who had big dreams and turned them into big realities.
Really excited about today, Princess, can you tell the people
who you are, where you're from?
Speaker 2 (01:33):
Nisch nasi Cho So nice to be in conversation with you,
always so chain Jewish Ethni Katherine, Steven Peter eight. It's
at a Gucci Hi, my relatives. My name is Princess
(01:56):
Dajrai Johnson. I am Natzaigu in my mother's side and
Oshcar Nazi Jewish on my father's side. My grandparents had
they like Catherine and Stephen Peter from our village, Alaska,
and I currently live on Lower Canada to Naylands with
my family aka Fairbanks, where we just have had a
(02:16):
really cold spell. It's been like negative forty plus and
this is how it's supposed to be, so we can't
complain about it. We've been wanting to keep a last
cold and it's cold right now. So I'm just like
grateful to be here with you all.
Speaker 1 (02:31):
Yeah, I'm gonna cheese. Fairbanks winters are real. My wife
and I spent four years in Fairbanks. I was getting
a Master of Fine Arts and Creative Writing at the
University of Alaska, Fairbanks. We worked on a couple of
projects up there that was two thousand and eight or
nine or somewhere around there, and I just remember the
sort of origin of that project was someone came to
(02:53):
me and was a faculty advisor of mine and said, Okay,
I get this pot of money. I want you to
write a play. And the only thing that I could
really tell you is it's got to be appropriate for kids.
And so I left for a little while and I
came back I said, Okay, so there is a sex
worker and a park ranger and they're giving tours of
our community. Because you know, in our community of Skagway
(03:16):
where I'm from, there was a time where the only ones,
I think, who were licensed to give historical tours were
women who were cosplaying as gold brush sex workers and
then park rangers. And so I thought that was kind
of an interesting thing, and so I was trying to
write a play based on that. But I guess what
I'm curious of is your creative journey and how you
(03:37):
got to where you are, where you're working on really
big projects, really amazing projects, And maybe talk a little
bit about how you got started, and then what kinds
of things helped you along the way.
Speaker 2 (03:49):
Just jump right in with the really big question, because
I think that that journey is shaped by story, the
stories that were told as children. It's shaped by the
questions that we asked, and you know, for me, so
much of my journey has been one of curiosity, it's
(04:11):
been one of discovery, of not knowing our true histories.
It's been absolutely shaped by the matriarchs in my life.
I remember my mom when I was five years old.
We were living in Los Angeles and there was all
these oil derecs that you drive by on Abrea Avenue,
and I asked her, I used to become dinosaurs or grasshoppers,
(04:34):
because that's what they look like to me. And I said, Mom,
what are those dinosaurs like? What are those grasshoppers doing?
And she said, oh, well, a long time ago, there
were all these toxins on the surface of the Earth,
and our mother Earth buried them deep inside of her
so it wouldn't harm the beings on the surface anymore.
(04:54):
And those machines they're bringing it back up. And I
I could not understand that. I could not. It just
like blew my mind. And these type of stories that
my mother relayed to me formed the basis for how
I situate myself in the cosmos, How do I situate
(05:16):
myself in relationship to the land and the waters and
the spirit of the animals and a place, And it
solidified for me. My father was a children's book author, writer.
My mother wrote stories as well, and my grandmother, Thank goodness, Catherine,
my grandma Catherine. She took all these Witchen stories and
(05:40):
worked at the university to record them and write them
down in both which and then with help translation into
English and stories even today, they helped me navigate and
make sense of the world around me. And so I
would say that my journey started when I started listening
(06:01):
and hearing and taking in, you know, the stories that
would form this foundation of my understanding of the world today.
Speaker 1 (06:09):
Awesome. When I do work that's creative, I'm always thinking
of stories that I was told, and then I think
a lot also about our language and how things function
in our language, and how I might be using our
indigenous language. And so there's there's a lot of stories
that are told in our indigenous language I listen to.
Then there's a lot of stories that I engage in
(06:30):
that are told in English. And I think, as Indigenous
content creators, sometimes we're kind of in we're moving back
and forth between these realms of the English speaking world
and Indigenous speaking worlds, and sometimes those are a multilingual world.
So when you were I guess younger, because if I
understand right, your your mother is a speaker of Gwichin,
(06:51):
and which in is a pretty strong language for Alaska
Native languages. So it's one of the languages that has
a high percentage of speakers. I mean, all all Alaska
Native languages are in trouble, but Guchin is one that
has held on to a lot of speakers. So how
does that sort of braiding of these indigenous worlds? And
it's not it's more complicated, I think than living in
(07:13):
two worlds, which I think is like a simplification because
also I don't choose which world I'm in. I'm in
multiple universes at once. And I always think about the
words of our ancestors, going back to ones who were
didn't speak English, and then thinking about what future generations
might be like. So when you're creating, how is language
(07:37):
affecting what you're doing in terms of things that you
heard and knew, and then also things that you're thinking
about for your audience.
Speaker 2 (07:45):
Well, I would say, and I'm not fluent in Gutin.
You know, I'm still learning the language, and so I
can listen to a story in whichin I can listen
to speakers, and I can piece meal right like like
take things out, but I'm not getting the fullness of
what they're saying necessarily. And I would say a lot
(08:08):
of times when I want to be inspired, I do
go to the language. And because our languages are really
truly a high verbal art form, and they were specifically,
I would say, intentionally that way, because we needed to
(08:29):
be able to relay so much knowledge and history and
genealogy about the places and the people that where we
were from, and they necessitated us spurring on the imagination
and linking up. Now we know, right that, I mean,
that's what science tells us about the listener, that this
(08:52):
is the storyteller and the listener. And what happens is
parts of the brain actually start pairing up within the
list center and the speaker, and I can say something
or do something and that emotion will transmute to you
and you'll pick up on that. And that's what we
want to have happened, right. It's part of how we
(09:14):
start associating and connecting different stories that we've heard and
then experience that we have in real life, you know,
with the land around us. So whenever I'm going into writing,
it can be anything a poem or a script or
I can look to our language and look at the
(09:37):
richness of metaphor and just all of that amazing figurative language. Two,
which is also extremely visual and visceral. It's just like
visual poetry, which is filmmaking to me, is just that
visual poetry. And so even though you know you might
(09:57):
put something into a script, or you might create some
images that you put together in a documentary or a film,
you know, maybe maybe the audience is not going to
see that. You're you just put like a little treasure
trove of your own, like your own culture in there.
But that's the thing about like creating. It's like you ultimately,
(10:18):
I think what I'm creating at least like I'm making
something that my spirit is hungry for. And if I'm
hungry for that, the chances are you're hungry for that.
The chances are other human beings are hungry for that.
Speaker 1 (10:31):
So thinking of your work like, you're an incredible actor,
you're you're a wonderful writer, you're so gifted at so
many things. And then one of the things that I
see is you're producing. And I remember there was a
call a year or two ago through a major media group,
you know, a major content producing group that says we're
looking for a native American producers. I thought that'd be
(10:52):
really cool, and then I thought, what on earth is
a producer? And so what does a producer do in
the creative world?
Speaker 2 (11:00):
Ye oh my gosh. I'm still learning that as I
go along, because there's so many different types of producers
and depending on like what it is you know that
you do. On Malli of Dnali, like, I really gravitated
towards and liked having this like creative producer title because
that is exactly I mean, Like I mean, any producer
(11:21):
I think is can get to be creative. But you know,
sometimes there's like the producers that are like really nutsymbols.
They're putting a budget together like a line producer, or
you know, there's other producers that maybe are more on
the budgetary like not putting the line budget together, but
they're like financiers, like they're helping raise the funds for
(11:42):
any given project. There's so many types of like I said,
like I don't even know, like I think it just
really and it's a really great question to ask people
that use the producer of title, like what do you do?
And it does? It varies from project to project. Let's
take Molly for example. It's a good example that creative
producer Title I was involved with reviewing the scripts from
(12:06):
you know, premise to all the way to the end
of Polish pasting, involved with you know, even like being
on the records sometimes and helping, you know, with the
voice director, because there's a certain way or canter like
you know that we say things in Alaska that you
(12:27):
know in Canada it's a little different, right, so or
with a you know at that time, like our voice
director was not indigenous. So there's just like you wanted
to be involved with all those different elements and aspects.
And of course it's just PBS and GBH and the
whole Like Molly series touches on so many different not
(12:47):
just what we see in terms of the animated series,
but then there's like the games and the learning media
and the resources. So that was like a real smorter sport.
I probably I won't even say I probably I did
too much. I like spread myself then I feel like
on that project and so it's just like a there
weren't I think we needed quite frankly, we needed another
(13:10):
indigenous producer. We needed like two of us.
Speaker 3 (13:12):
Wow.
Speaker 1 (13:13):
Yeah, well, I just want to say gonna Chiesh Masucho
for your incredible work on Malli of Dnale, and just
to sort of root ourselves into this. So this is
I think a groundbreaking occurrence for Indigenous people. So I
grew up watching cartoons, and the cartoons that I watched,
(13:33):
the only Native Americans I saw were very buffoonish type
of characters that bugs Bunny was murdering and being very
coy about killing them, and so, like, the dehumanization of
Native Americans was so constant through sports imagery, through cartoons,
and so sometimes there was some engagement, like maybe there'd
(13:55):
be some real side character on a superhero cartoon who's
Native American, but he doesn't have speaking lines and doesn't
have any sort of real role in the story. And
so as Molly came out, my kids were pretty young,
and then as I thought about it, it was very
emotional for me to say, like, my children get to
have a central character who's Native American, who's Alaska Native,
(14:18):
who's female, who's incredible and smart and a problem solver
and kind and a deep character, and then has lots
of other deep characters. And so the work that came out,
I think One of the things that I remember was
when the show launched, I was teaching classes in Sitka
and we had students from Half these students were from Alaska.
(14:42):
Half these students were from around the world. For a
very small startup college is kind of a pre college college,
preparatory sort of program. And there was this one Alaska
native kid that we kind of had a hard time
getting to come to class regularly, and we're really trying
to encourage him, and he just missed the whole day.
The next day, we saw him and I said, hey,
(15:02):
you weren't any of your classes yesterday and he said, well, Molly,
if Danelli came out and I had to stream every
single episode And I said, okay, that's pretty amazing, and
so we could take care of the rest later because
I knew what kind of impact that was like, even
just to talk about that in front of my kid,
I would start tearing up because I thought, we're changing
(15:22):
a world, We're creating a world where there's so much
more that's possible for them. It was just amazing. And
I want to thank you for your your contributions. You
had a strong leadership role in that. And I think
also that there was a lot of community driven in
community based efforts that went into Molly that I think
made it successful, including the first episode where you see
(15:43):
they're talking about boarding schools and language prohibition and coming
back to your culture as an elder who can still
experience growth, and that episode, like, it's just so powerful
to see these children helping to bring the language back
to elders, which is something that was happening in a
(16:04):
lot of our communities.
Speaker 2 (16:06):
Yeah, pay well, thank you for your contributions and being
able to write on the show. And yet it's such
a special thing for us now, huh, now that we're
parents and same, you know, just to see the reaction
still to this day of the impact and the pride
(16:27):
that our kids have, you know, because even before this
came out, there wasn't my boys like didn't have It
wasn't that they weren't proud, but they there is something
about media, mass media and kids being able to see
themselves on the screen in this positive light and it
(16:48):
really filled them with a sense of pride. Like we
had the premiere hand for Airbanks and we did an
invitational afterwards to celebrate. There was drumming, traditional drumming and
singing and everyone got on stage and my boys, I've
never seen them dance so hard, and it was just
that liberating feeling of just like we're here and we're
(17:09):
proud of who we are and we're claiming it and
we have Mollie now, you know, And yes, it's such
a beautiful thing. And like you said, it's the humanization,
you know, when we've just been so utterly dehumanized. And
you know, you think about communities of color, black people,
or take for instance right now, Palestinian people, right and
(17:32):
you look at well, what if they had a Mollie?
It makes a huge difference because I think that ultimately
our values get embedded in this. We know that our values.
I mean that was very intentional that we wanted our
Alaska Native values to be embedded in the series. And
that is the sort of relationality that I was talking
(17:54):
about with our stories, where we don't put ourselves as
human beings on this pedestal, that we don't put ourselves
at the very top. It's like, no, we actually really
do need to sit and listen to what the salmon
are telling us, or the our birch relatives, or the whales.
Speaker 3 (18:13):
The moves.
Speaker 1 (18:13):
Yeah, absolutely, and that just reminds me of your work
in environmental awareness and stewardship and protection of rights, protection
of the Caribou herds. And so as we have more
indigenous content, we have more opportunities to use those as
platforms to talk about things that are really important to
(18:33):
indigenous peoples and communities and languages, and so this is
really exciting. This is really exciting. We're going to take
a little break and we'll come back and we'll talk
about current projects and maybe just this explosion of Indigenous
content on mainstream media, which is super exciting. I feel
like I've been waiting my whole life for this, and
(18:54):
now we have Indigenous superheroes, and we have Indigenous stories
and detectives and everything. We'll be right back.
Speaker 3 (19:14):
One or two or three times. You try any de
not brids. You run all around without your head. Struggle,
yes to day.
Speaker 4 (19:29):
You struggle still today now, but you'll find a broader away.
My brother and sisters, don't you know I found the
way to bring it back for.
Speaker 3 (19:45):
Those who came. Believe in yourself. Now, believe in U somehow,
don not decolor. Nothing is.
Speaker 1 (20:09):
To cut you on. Gonna cha way wachis and the
thing get word for television we came up with. There
was an elder I worked with. Her name is Dastiya Etholmackinin,
and she told me the thing get word for a
movie screen, which was ai, which means the terrifying board.
(20:31):
I guess, and she said, because when Klinga people first
saw movie screens like they're really scared of it. Oh
how interesting, and so we call it a scary box.
But I think it's exciting right now that there's a
lot of Indigenous content that's coming out. And so as
I watched this sort of transition, and I think of
(20:52):
this film because I know you make documentary films as well.
There's a documentary out there called Real Engines are e
e I n Juns, and it talks about this progression
of Native Americans in film, and it was really interesting
to see going from side characters and backdrops to main characters.
(21:15):
And now we're seeing this happen on larger screens and
on larger media platforms and at a wide range of
age levels and genres, and so it's really exciting to
witness this and to see that there's a lot of content,
that there's almost so much Indigenous content out there that
I can't keep up with it. But now I'm backloged
(21:37):
on things to watch. There's zombie movies and there's all
kinds of stuff, and it's exciting to see this. And
so as someone who's in the industry right now, what's
it been like to watch this as your own career
like really blossoms into a producer and writer who's in
a lot of things.
Speaker 2 (21:56):
Yeah, No, it is super exciting and similar. I can't
keep up. And that's the way it should be. I mean,
that is the way it's always been for the dominant culture.
And we're just finally to this place where I'm like, yes,
and more and more, and there's room for more of us,
and it is quality content. I mean, we just have
(22:17):
in indigenous people. We've just like built our capacity and
look we have Lily Gladstone now who is nominated for
an author whoo woo. So it really is incredible and
exciting and you know, and it's just so incredibly diverse.
I mean, we're really like showing people, no, we are
(22:38):
not a monolith. Look at the diversity you could take
you know, any community, and just within that community, I
mean we got queer folk, we get the elders we got,
you know, we just have everybody, and we have our
relatives that are black and indigenous, like and I, by
the way, love you know seeing that we're lifting that
up right now, we're seeing well with True Detective, you
(22:59):
know Kaylee being black and indigenous. Bill Blanchett isn't that
And so just having that like representation and both in
front of and behind the camera with just how many
incredible writers and directors, producers, actors, voice actors and animators
right like we had Spirit Rangers too, And it is
(23:21):
really passed too. It's past two, but I am so
excited and I'm looking forward to more.
Speaker 1 (23:29):
Yeah, And I know sometimes when you're in the process
of making stuff, where as stuff is coming out, you
got to kind of be cautious of what you say. So,
you know, spoilers, but are they? Are there any anything
that you've been involved in recently that you're really excited about?
Speaker 3 (23:46):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (23:47):
Well, you know it's also funny because you know, you
work on something and you know this, you know from
working on Molly, Like you write something and then you
don't get to see it until three years later you're like, oh, yeah,
I wrote that theme pre pandemic you know, so it
is really exciting just to see the representation and all
(24:09):
of so many Alaskan people, Alaskan actors and artists, but
also with Two Detective, it was people from into it,
from Canada and Greenland. So it's really beautiful to see
that representation. Also to know that people are already because
again that was already filmed prior last year. People are
(24:30):
already getting other lead roles and moving on to other series.
So I just am excited, you know again to this
notion of us refining our craft, you know, whether it
be you know, acting, writing, directing, producing, and really thinking
about I had mentioned recently in an article like Alaska
(24:53):
Daily was that was filmed mostly in Vancouver, right, British Columbia,
and of course Eira Starboard and Andrew McLain were able
to be writers on that series, and there was a
lot of Indigenous representation. I don't think we had too
many Alaska Native people. But again that falls under the
film incentive, right, that happens in Canada and what happens
(25:14):
when you film in a place. But that business aspect
and that business element of any series is something that
we really need to take seriously and consider in terms
of like you know, a lot of us we want
to see a film tax incentive program return because it
is a way another way for us to diversify our
economy in Alaska. And quite frankly, we're losing out right,
(25:36):
we're losing work that work to Canada and Iceland in
the case of you know, like The Detective. So I
think that the more we can do to again build
our own capacity and like really hopefully bring back a
film tax incentive program here. I mean, I think we're
ready for a comedy. Who may like, we're ready for
(25:58):
an Alaska Native And I think you're gonna write.
Speaker 1 (26:02):
It if you know, I visit with Firas Starboard and
with Frank Attass and Ed Littlefield, And if we're half
as funny as we think we are, then I think
that's gonna be a pretty funny show. And so I
think you're dead on because if we can find ways
(26:22):
to open these doors for these tax incentives for things
to be filmed here, I mean, we've got such a
wonderful area, like shooting in Alaska would be so wonderful,
and if we could sort of open those doors more,
I think it would be the right time as there's
more and more Indigenous content out there. You mentioned Spirit Rangers, Pray.
(26:44):
I mean, there's so much stuff to go and find
and to go and see where you have strong lead characters,
and I think it's really important to sort of acknowledge
the existence of Sometimes there's a pushback to some of
this stuff, like there's as some Indigenous content. I look
at some of the criticism of it, and I think, well,
where's the praise.
Speaker 2 (27:05):
You know.
Speaker 1 (27:05):
That's one thing I think the media generally can do
is just sort of acknowledge that there's an emergence of
Indigenous content, of Native American content right now, and it's
really exciting, especially as you have things that folks can
relate to. There's so much stuff on reservation dogs, and
there's so much stuff on Rutherford Falls and others like
where I'm watching it and I feel like I would
(27:26):
wait my whole life to hear that speech. But then
also there's jokes, there's teasing, there's these the multi culturalism
and mixing of ethnicities that you talked about that I
think is important so that people who are black and
Indigenous feel seen as black people and as Indigenous peoples,
and so as we're continuing to make content. It's really
(27:48):
exciting to think about the possibilities that are there, especially
as more and more stuff gets made. Then it feels
like it's not we have to tell the story that
people are going to buy. We have to tell the
stories that we feel in our hearts and that we
feel people will connect you, which is more exciting to me.
Speaker 2 (28:06):
Yeah, absolutely, and moving us more in the direction to
where we have more Indigenous people that are at the
helm of the studios, at the helm of you know,
really where a lot of decisions are made in terms
of what shows are going to be greenlit and also
what the process and the mannerism is of creating a
(28:29):
film or a television series. And you know, in my
like radical imagination, we would have our own network here
in Alaska where we would really have true ownership and
that narrative sovereignty where we're green light we're the ones.
We're like we're green lighting the series and the shows
(28:49):
and fighting the audience, which I think, I mean there
is an audience. I mean look at the critical acclaim
and like what you know Reservation Dogs has done, and
you know, other shows in terms of you know, animation,
like how amazing would it be if we were in
an animation hub, like the animation happened. And it's important
to point out that during COVID and like the shutdowns,
(29:11):
animation kept going. It was like the live action stuff
that you know, really had to shut down, and that
could happen anywhere. I was really surprised to learn when
we worked on MOLLI that the animation that we see
on PBS kids like it doesn't happen in the United States.
That animation like we're contracting with studios in like Ireland
and Manila and Vancouver. And why is that? I mean,
(29:35):
can we not be the hub?
Speaker 1 (29:38):
I think we should be, Yeah, exactly because we have
artists with illustrators and we have animators and then they
could learn how to do more and they could teach
folks how to do more. So these are also things
that I think can be localized within Alaska, and Alaska
could become a content creation place. And I love your
idea of Indigenous station basically an indigenous company that's producing
(30:02):
this stuff. And so oev TV came out of Haviti
and was linked to their language movement, and it grew
as their language reclamation movement grew and same with Maudi TV.
And so as I think about these things, these can
not only produce Indigenous content and create more Indigenous content creators,
but then we can also make stuff that's in our
(30:22):
languages because we're making it for ourselves as well as
making it for everyone else. And I think that's really
really exciting. And then that creates opportunities to create some
common content that you can put different languages into. And
I know this is exciting, and I know people get
really excited because Star Wars has been translated into Navojo,
(30:44):
and I think it's being translated into a jibway right now,
and we're going to work on the Tlanget version, and
I want to voice Darth Vader though, so the absolution,
I mean.
Speaker 2 (30:56):
You could actually a few of the characters today.
Speaker 1 (31:00):
But so it's really exciting to envision these futures and
to dream these futures and then to see because we
mentioned several shows out there, and so on every major
streaming platform, there's an indigenous show on there. So if
you've got Max, look at the new season of True Detective.
If you've got Hulu Reservation Dogs, you've got Netflix Spirit Rangers,
(31:22):
you've got Disney plus Echo, and so there's indigenous content
on every single one of these platforms, and that means
it's going to continue to open these doors. And so
it's exciting to think about these projects because there's so
many stories that I think one of the really difficult
parts of being indigenous in North America is that most
(31:44):
people don't listen to your stories and don't know your stories.
They live on your land, and they don't know how
much your people have suffered just so that they could
live on your land, and so you end up in
this realm of invisibility, and the suffering that your people
have gone through is invisible. So as we look at
sort of more indigenous content, we're erasing that invisibility. And
(32:09):
I think it's something that humanizes indigenous peoples and humanizes
the descendants of the colonizers who have been sort of
fed this false narrative that Native Americans are subhuman And
so as they sort of engage in that they could
become better guests on indigenous land.
Speaker 2 (32:29):
Absolutely, and in the best case scenario, you know, they
really are emulating and taking on the way we relate
to these places. Right, Like one of the anecdotes that
I heard from a non native parent, a white mom
a couple of years ago was She's like, you know,
ever since my kids started watching Mollia d Nali, they
(32:51):
go around thanking nature. And I'm like, yes, that is
exactly you know what needs to happen. You know, we
oftentimes are so what we see on social media, which,
by the way, most of that is just just not healthy.
It's not healthy for our children, it's not healthy for us.
(33:13):
It can be used, of course as a powerful tool,
I think for ed public education and organizing, but there's
also a lot of just negativity. So I think that
the more that we're able to be together in real
life and get beyond our biases and have real conversations
(33:34):
that maybe are spurred by some of the things that
you know, we see in media is critical because we
have to be able to see each other as human
beings and respect one another, even if we don't see
to eye on everything, if we don't agree on everything,
we just have to have that like love of that
certain level of respect. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (33:54):
Well the cut that the quidsity, just to cut that
to tea. There's a spirit in everything, and we respect,
we give respect to all things. That's something that we
were taught. So we're gonna take our second break, folks.
We'll be right back. Clain he.
Speaker 3 (34:31):
Yah yah, God said, oh God, a Connor yna to.
Speaker 1 (35:30):
Cut you on, and we're back. Lily Gladstone was a
Golden Globe winner, I think, the first Indigenous person to
receive this, the first Indigenous woman to receive this, and
in her acceptance speech she said, this is for every
little reds kid, This for every little Native kid. And
(35:52):
so in the spirit of that, thinking of what you've done,
you're out there, you're a your trailblazer in this field
among many other people. But there's lots of folks who
are going to follow you now. And so for those
Native people who are thinking about this as a dream,
which I think when I was dreaming this stuff, it
(36:12):
felt really impossible. And so how do we make that
more possible for the future generation of Indigenous content creators.
Speaker 2 (36:20):
Yeah, it's hard for it not to feel a little impossible.
And even as we learn and grow, there's always like
when you get over one peak and then you're like oh,
and then you look and you're like, oh my gosh,
there's another. There's another. I might before another peak, which
is how I feel kind of after every project and
starting a new project. And I think it's absolutely critical
(36:44):
that we have our support groups, you know, like the
people in your circle that could be your family and
your friends, or people like yourself that are also you know,
writing and directing and producing and creatives, especially as Indigenous people.
You know, there's going to be that moment where you're
(37:04):
faced with a just a difficult conversation or a different
difficult you know, something comes up, you know, in the
process of your creative work where you just need to
be able. I need to be able to be like
June Yo, I just had this really difficult conversation and
I need to I need a sounding board. I really
need the support. And I think that is really you
(37:28):
know critical, Like I just whenever possible try not to
be the only Indigenous person in a room. I will
advocate and work to make sure that I have another
Indigenous person in that room with me, because we need
each other. We really need each other. I think, especially
on you know, kind of like these larger projects, and
I remember, you know, working on Molly and Sydney Isaacs.
(37:51):
Having her in those discussions and in the room like
made a big difference. And so that's like one of
the things you know that we kind of in our membran,
I'm of a agreement like just making sure that you know,
we have as many of our own people as possible
on these projects that feature us, right, Like that makes
sense and not to be you know, I think it's
(38:12):
a creative Like you do something, you know, you write
a script and then it airs and then there's always
like this other work that comes before you. And I
think it's important to celebrate, celebrate the work that you do.
If you write a poem, if you write a paper,
if you translate a traditional story, or you learn how
(38:33):
to tell better yet a traditional story, if you do
a piece of voice acting or whatever it is, honor
and celebrate that you did that thing, and think the
people that around you that made that possible. You know,
I'm a mom, I have a you know, my obligation
(38:53):
as a partner and a mother, and a lot of
the work that I do would not be possible if
it weren't for you know, my family just being like okay,
you have to go travel right now. We understand and
maybe sometimes I don't understand them, you know.
Speaker 5 (39:06):
I still got to thank them for like giving me
the grace, you know, and the space to do what
I love to do that you know, feeds my spirit.
Speaker 2 (39:16):
But sometimes it's some projects are easier than others. But
I can't underscore enough that just you need your people.
You need your people around you that just like they're
your cheerleaders that just love and support you, but also
you know, push you to excel in your craft. That's
really important to you have to be open to feedback
(39:37):
because our craft and refining who we are as artists
is linked to our spiritual growth.
Speaker 1 (39:47):
Yeah, well, good of cheese. And sometimes when you're you're
a writer in a room and you might have seven
eight different comments that are coming in and different everyone's
got their own collor to give you a comment, and
you're going to experience some things where maybe I remember
I wrote a script and they said no, no, this
would be really funny, do this, and so I was like, okay,
So then I wrote it in there, and then at
(40:09):
a later point they said you can't do that. I said, okay,
well you guys, okay, I'll take it out, you know.
And so also you've got to just sort of be
kind of free flowing. It's such an interesting thing because
I think you've got to be in this realm of
being creative, finding the story, finding the characters, finding the moments,
but then also be flexible in what you're doing so
that you can hear it, because sometimes someone's going to
(40:32):
have an idea and you're like, oh, yeah, that works
really well. And so I really love how it's a
collaborative environment. And I also want to echo what you
said was get yourself a squad that you can just
call on, and you can and they they're also in
the industry and they know what it's like to be
in some of these rooms and to be in some
of these situations. And I would say, if you're pretty
(40:54):
early on in your career, be realistic about your deadlines too,
because you're finding success. The odds are you've got twenty
different projects going at the same time, and you're trying
to figure out how to keep your focus and keep
your ability to hit deadlines reasonably close. Anyways, you know,
sometimes you could be a couple of days late. But
just to sort of stay on top of these projects
(41:16):
and also not get overwhelmed, I think is really important too,
so that that deadline is coming, That deadline is coming,
but then you can still say oh yeah, okay. And
I also want to thank my family and my friends,
but especially my close family for understanding that sometimes I'm
going to need to go eight hour solid on this
thing and stay up all night and get this thing.
(41:38):
And it feels so great to like send it off
like there's the scripts. You know, I somehow did it,
and so then to move on to the next one.
And so hit your deadlines as best you can, give
yourself time space, water, take a walk when you need to,
and yeah, have that support group out there, so you
(42:01):
are in my circle of supporters. And so I really
want to thank you for all the times that you've
helped me, both when we're working on Molly and also
just in general, just life in general, because being an
indigenous person sometimes is tough because you've got language stuff
and decolonization stuff and creative stuff and you're really trying
(42:23):
to weave all of this together into some kind of
tapestry that that's going to work somehow. So those of
you who are working on this stuff, for thinking about it,
keep going and keep dreaming any of the thoughts you
want to share with these future creators.
Speaker 2 (42:37):
Yeah, just in terms of like the creative process, and
like the notes process, like you get to a point
where it's just like you be the sponge, like take
everything in, but also like you'll get to a place
where you'll just in story and in what you're trying
to express, where you know, also know it's okay to
push back. Like there's times and there's especially if you're
(43:01):
working with people that are not Indigenous, where you have
to push back. And what I say to that is
just really be thoughtful because some people are very literal
or maybe even a little dense, like it's hard for
them to understand a different culture. And so just really
be thoughtful about the choices, the creative choices that you make,
(43:24):
and being able sometimes to fight for those I don't
want to say fight, but it is a fight sometimes.
I mean there's times you'll feel like you are in
the trenches advocating, and that's our lives as indigenous people.
I think, no matter what we do, there's going to be,
you know, that sense of fighting for justice or just
(43:46):
to be seen as fully human, or for someone to
understand that their worldview is not the center of the universe.
Then we bring this indigenous world view. So I would
just say, just trust your spirit, and you know there's
also like you know, couldn't they said that, there's times
like people just off handedly have some criticism or make
(44:07):
a note and you can just say, oh, I understand,
or let me get clarity about understanding what you're telling
me in this note, and then once you understand that,
you can repeat it back to them and say, well,
I'm actually coming from this perspective, and you try to
find the happy medium. I mean, maybe think there's a
(44:27):
little compromise there, but yeah, just trust your instincts. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (44:32):
Well, and I think another important aspect is as an
indigenous person, sometimes this might feel like this isn't something
that Indigenous people do, you know, and so it does
take a bit of courage to step out and to
put yourself out there, and to also like stay connected
(44:52):
to your people, and stay connected to your communities, and
stay connected to your stories, your elders, your children. And
so just because you're getting into the entertainment industry doesn't
mean you have to disconnect from these and become something else.
Like you amplify this voice that you have and these
words that you've developed, and these stories that have been
(45:15):
rattling around in your mind, and that sometimes just come
to you, and sometimes they come through these collaborative processes.
So I think it's important too to see yourself always
as an Indigenous content creator who's connected to the people,
who stays humble, who stays ready, to just listen and
(45:35):
continue to explore what it means to be a storyteller,
because we've we've always had storytellers. Our peoples have always
had storytellers, and those storytellers did wonderful things. And we're
this generation of storytellers, and we're going to leave stuff
for the future generations of storytellers. And if things are
(45:55):
going to keep going the way they are, there's just
going to be more and more and more content. And
it's really exciting to witness it and to also to
think about the incredible contributions of all these Indigenous actors,
all these Indigenous writers, all these Indigenous peoples who've opened
door after door after door and been the only Indigenous
(46:17):
person in the room and had those hard conversations where
everybody thinks there's some great idea there, and you've got
to stand up and say, Okay, it's a bad idea. Okay,
this's going to hurt somebody, Okay, inauthentic, you know. And
so but as this stuff goes forward, it's really exciting
to see. I'm so glad you're able to spend some
time with us.
Speaker 2 (46:37):
I mean, we could talk for hours on this subject,
you know. But I just you know, for those people
that are considering or maybe feeling a little hesitant about,
you know, entering, whether it be trying out acting or
writing or directing, I would say, just have fun, do it, experiment,
(46:59):
get your friends together, use your iPhone. Like I'm really
I'm constantly blown away by the content that I see
on like TikTok or YouTube or you know, people are
making things that are super fun and creative and using
our languages and just more of that.
Speaker 1 (47:17):
Yeah. Absolutely, So if you want to write poetry, write poetry.
You want to make music, make music. If you want
to get into screenplay writing, there's formatting stuff that's a
part of it. You're going to have to keep track
of characters and dialogue and how to There is a
whole way to get into that. And so there's lots
of opportunities out there for screenwriting classes. There's books on screenwriting. Now,
(47:41):
there's books. I'm being a person of color who's a screenwriter,
and there's so much stuff that's out there, and so
I would say, be creative, believe in yourself, get that
get those fingers moving, whether you're typing or you got
a pen, and just keep that little cursor moving to
the next line. And as you start to put these
(48:03):
things together, find other content creators so that you can
collaborate with them, because sometimes I think you have to
have these conversations about what is what does it really
take to get this thing finished and to get it
into production into I remember seeing the first episode I
wrote of Molly of Dnally, and I was so nervous
(48:25):
to watch it with my family because I'm like, look,
there's there's people who are doing these things that I wrote.
And I remember I wrote in there a really bad joke,
like I wanted to have a bad joke, like a
native MC who was just not great at telling jokes.
And so I think it was what's orange and sounds
like a parrot? A carrot and you know and so,
(48:45):
and in the script says nobody laughs and then there's
a single cough, you know and so, and when it happened,
I laughed so hard, and I remember people who were
watching with me like, it's not that funny. I was like,
that's the part. And so just to see that your
vision can become a reality if you continue to believe
(49:07):
in yourself and to believe in others. I do believe
that when you uplift someone else, we all go higher.
So it's been such a pleasure to spend some time
with you. I'm so excited with all the things that
you're doing and all the things that you're going to do.
I think in December of twenty twenty two, it was
the first time they had a family version for the Emmys,
(49:30):
so the Emmys for Children and Families Television, and there
was a whole crew of Indigenous peoples because Molly of
Danelle sent a gang and it was so much fun
to be there and to see everybody just going all
out and enjoying themselves and celebrating the excellence and seeing
that Molly was getting recognition.
Speaker 2 (49:50):
Cherished memory is just seeing us all together in our regalia,
and again it's that element of celebration and like you said,
just lifting each each other up and the continuation of
working on our craft. And we can all ride this
wave together and we should, and there's room for all
(50:11):
of us and yeah, let's tell these stories.
Speaker 1 (50:15):
Oh gonna jeees, folks. This has been The Tongue Unbroken
with Princess Deshrai Johnson, an incredible writer, producer, actor. There's
probably ten other things that we can add on there.
My gosh, thanks so much, folks. And wherever you're at,
whatever you're doing, believe in yourself, keep going because you
(50:37):
never know you're going to be the one that opens doors.
You're going to be the one that tells the next
great story, and there's going to be another great story
after that. So I'm so thankful for all these opportunities
and just there's networks of people behind every one of
these projects, and that includes non Indigenous peoples who are
saying we should listen to Indigenous peoples and we should
(50:57):
grant them an opportunity, and we should get them up
on the stage and give them a voice and hear
what they have to say. And this indigenization of media
and content production is amazing and it wouldn't be possible
without amazing people. We say strong, believe in yourself, little
chich The Tongue Unbroken is a production of the iHeartMedia Network.
(51:20):
Next up Initiative Good to Chiese, to producers Joel Monique
and Mia Taylor. We'll be back next week, Gonna chice
claim st.
They tried to Colinizzes, try to genocide. Yet we're still
here with the tongue on broke and Gonnaya just to
cut you on, what's tayat? Welcome to the Tongue Unbroken, folks.
(00:38):
I am so glad you were here. I'm glad you're listening.
I am really excited about today's episode and to spend
some time with a good friend of mine, Princess Johnson,
who is an incredible content creator, actor, writer, producer, just
doing amazing things. And I thought it would be great
(01:00):
to just hear who she is, where she's from, and
then we'll talk about what kinds of things she's working on.
And the third segment will be about how would you
become an awesome creative who's working on Hollywood productions and
is doing amazing things, especially for all your little Native
kids out there and all your little Native creators out
(01:22):
there who who have big dreams. We're talking to folks
who had big dreams and turned them into big realities.
Really excited about today, Princess, can you tell the people
who you are, where you're from?
Speaker 2 (01:33):
Nisch nasi Cho So nice to be in conversation with you,
always so chain Jewish Ethni Katherine, Steven Peter eight. It's
at a Gucci Hi, my relatives. My name is Princess
(01:56):
Dajrai Johnson. I am Natzaigu in my mother's side and
Oshcar Nazi Jewish on my father's side. My grandparents had
they like Catherine and Stephen Peter from our village, Alaska,
and I currently live on Lower Canada to Naylands with
my family aka Fairbanks, where we just have had a
(02:16):
really cold spell. It's been like negative forty plus and
this is how it's supposed to be, so we can't
complain about it. We've been wanting to keep a last
cold and it's cold right now. So I'm just like
grateful to be here with you all.
Speaker 1 (02:31):
Yeah, I'm gonna cheese. Fairbanks winters are real. My wife
and I spent four years in Fairbanks. I was getting
a Master of Fine Arts and Creative Writing at the
University of Alaska, Fairbanks. We worked on a couple of
projects up there that was two thousand and eight or
nine or somewhere around there, and I just remember the
sort of origin of that project was someone came to
(02:53):
me and was a faculty advisor of mine and said, Okay,
I get this pot of money. I want you to
write a play. And the only thing that I could
really tell you is it's got to be appropriate for kids.
And so I left for a little while and I
came back I said, Okay, so there is a sex
worker and a park ranger and they're giving tours of
our community. Because you know, in our community of Skagway
(03:16):
where I'm from, there was a time where the only ones,
I think, who were licensed to give historical tours were
women who were cosplaying as gold brush sex workers and
then park rangers. And so I thought that was kind
of an interesting thing, and so I was trying to
write a play based on that. But I guess what
I'm curious of is your creative journey and how you
(03:37):
got to where you are, where you're working on really
big projects, really amazing projects, And maybe talk a little
bit about how you got started, and then what kinds
of things helped you along the way.
Speaker 2 (03:49):
Just jump right in with the really big question, because
I think that that journey is shaped by story, the
stories that were told as children. It's shaped by the
questions that we asked, and you know, for me, so
much of my journey has been one of curiosity, it's
(04:11):
been one of discovery, of not knowing our true histories.
It's been absolutely shaped by the matriarchs in my life.
I remember my mom when I was five years old.
We were living in Los Angeles and there was all
these oil derecs that you drive by on Abrea Avenue,
and I asked her, I used to become dinosaurs or grasshoppers,
(04:34):
because that's what they look like to me. And I said, Mom,
what are those dinosaurs like? What are those grasshoppers doing?
And she said, oh, well, a long time ago, there
were all these toxins on the surface of the Earth,
and our mother Earth buried them deep inside of her
so it wouldn't harm the beings on the surface anymore.
(04:54):
And those machines they're bringing it back up. And I
I could not understand that. I could not. It just
like blew my mind. And these type of stories that
my mother relayed to me formed the basis for how
I situate myself in the cosmos, How do I situate
(05:16):
myself in relationship to the land and the waters and
the spirit of the animals and a place, And it
solidified for me. My father was a children's book author, writer.
My mother wrote stories as well, and my grandmother, Thank goodness, Catherine,
my grandma Catherine. She took all these Witchen stories and
(05:40):
worked at the university to record them and write them
down in both which and then with help translation into
English and stories even today, they helped me navigate and
make sense of the world around me. And so I
would say that my journey started when I started listening
(06:01):
and hearing and taking in, you know, the stories that
would form this foundation of my understanding of the world today.
Speaker 1 (06:09):
Awesome. When I do work that's creative, I'm always thinking
of stories that I was told, and then I think
a lot also about our language and how things function
in our language, and how I might be using our
indigenous language. And so there's there's a lot of stories
that are told in our indigenous language I listen to.
Then there's a lot of stories that I engage in
(06:30):
that are told in English. And I think, as Indigenous
content creators, sometimes we're kind of in we're moving back
and forth between these realms of the English speaking world
and Indigenous speaking worlds, and sometimes those are a multilingual world.
So when you were I guess younger, because if I
understand right, your your mother is a speaker of Gwichin,
(06:51):
and which in is a pretty strong language for Alaska
Native languages. So it's one of the languages that has
a high percentage of speakers. I mean, all all Alaska
Native languages are in trouble, but Guchin is one that
has held on to a lot of speakers. So how
does that sort of braiding of these indigenous worlds? And
it's not it's more complicated, I think than living in
(07:13):
two worlds, which I think is like a simplification because
also I don't choose which world I'm in. I'm in
multiple universes at once. And I always think about the
words of our ancestors, going back to ones who were
didn't speak English, and then thinking about what future generations
might be like. So when you're creating, how is language
(07:37):
affecting what you're doing in terms of things that you
heard and knew, and then also things that you're thinking
about for your audience.
Speaker 2 (07:45):
Well, I would say, and I'm not fluent in Gutin.
You know, I'm still learning the language, and so I
can listen to a story in whichin I can listen
to speakers, and I can piece meal right like like
take things out, but I'm not getting the fullness of
what they're saying necessarily. And I would say a lot
(08:08):
of times when I want to be inspired, I do
go to the language. And because our languages are really
truly a high verbal art form, and they were specifically,
I would say, intentionally that way, because we needed to
(08:29):
be able to relay so much knowledge and history and
genealogy about the places and the people that where we
were from, and they necessitated us spurring on the imagination
and linking up. Now we know, right that, I mean,
that's what science tells us about the listener, that this
(08:52):
is the storyteller and the listener. And what happens is
parts of the brain actually start pairing up within the
list center and the speaker, and I can say something
or do something and that emotion will transmute to you
and you'll pick up on that. And that's what we
want to have happened, right. It's part of how we
(09:14):
start associating and connecting different stories that we've heard and
then experience that we have in real life, you know,
with the land around us. So whenever I'm going into writing,
it can be anything a poem or a script or
I can look to our language and look at the
(09:37):
richness of metaphor and just all of that amazing figurative language. Two,
which is also extremely visual and visceral. It's just like
visual poetry, which is filmmaking to me, is just that
visual poetry. And so even though you know you might
(09:57):
put something into a script, or you might create some
images that you put together in a documentary or a film,
you know, maybe maybe the audience is not going to
see that. You're you just put like a little treasure
trove of your own, like your own culture in there.
But that's the thing about like creating. It's like you ultimately,
(10:18):
I think what I'm creating at least like I'm making
something that my spirit is hungry for. And if I'm
hungry for that, the chances are you're hungry for that.
The chances are other human beings are hungry for that.
Speaker 1 (10:31):
So thinking of your work like, you're an incredible actor,
you're you're a wonderful writer, you're so gifted at so
many things. And then one of the things that I
see is you're producing. And I remember there was a
call a year or two ago through a major media group,
you know, a major content producing group that says we're
looking for a native American producers. I thought that'd be
(10:52):
really cool, and then I thought, what on earth is
a producer? And so what does a producer do in
the creative world?
Speaker 2 (11:00):
Ye oh my gosh. I'm still learning that as I
go along, because there's so many different types of producers
and depending on like what it is you know that
you do. On Malli of Dnali, like, I really gravitated
towards and liked having this like creative producer title because
that is exactly I mean, Like I mean, any producer
(11:21):
I think is can get to be creative. But you know,
sometimes there's like the producers that are like really nutsymbols.
They're putting a budget together like a line producer, or
you know, there's other producers that maybe are more on
the budgetary like not putting the line budget together, but
they're like financiers, like they're helping raise the funds for
(11:42):
any given project. There's so many types of like I said,
like I don't even know, like I think it just
really and it's a really great question to ask people
that use the producer of title, like what do you do?
And it does? It varies from project to project. Let's
take Molly for example. It's a good example that creative
producer Title I was involved with reviewing the scripts from
(12:06):
you know, premise to all the way to the end
of Polish pasting, involved with you know, even like being
on the records sometimes and helping, you know, with the
voice director, because there's a certain way or canter like
you know that we say things in Alaska that you
(12:27):
know in Canada it's a little different, right, so or
with a you know at that time, like our voice
director was not indigenous. So there's just like you wanted
to be involved with all those different elements and aspects.
And of course it's just PBS and GBH and the
whole Like Molly series touches on so many different not
(12:47):
just what we see in terms of the animated series,
but then there's like the games and the learning media
and the resources. So that was like a real smorter sport.
I probably I won't even say I probably I did
too much. I like spread myself then I feel like
on that project and so it's just like a there
weren't I think we needed quite frankly, we needed another
(13:10):
indigenous producer. We needed like two of us.
Speaker 3 (13:12):
Wow.
Speaker 1 (13:13):
Yeah, well, I just want to say gonna Chiesh Masucho
for your incredible work on Malli of Dnale, and just
to sort of root ourselves into this. So this is
I think a groundbreaking occurrence for Indigenous people. So I
grew up watching cartoons, and the cartoons that I watched,
(13:33):
the only Native Americans I saw were very buffoonish type
of characters that bugs Bunny was murdering and being very
coy about killing them, and so, like, the dehumanization of
Native Americans was so constant through sports imagery, through cartoons,
and so sometimes there was some engagement, like maybe there'd
(13:55):
be some real side character on a superhero cartoon who's
Native American, but he doesn't have speaking lines and doesn't
have any sort of real role in the story. And
so as Molly came out, my kids were pretty young,
and then as I thought about it, it was very
emotional for me to say, like, my children get to
have a central character who's Native American, who's Alaska Native,
(14:18):
who's female, who's incredible and smart and a problem solver
and kind and a deep character, and then has lots
of other deep characters. And so the work that came out,
I think One of the things that I remember was
when the show launched, I was teaching classes in Sitka
and we had students from Half these students were from Alaska.
(14:42):
Half these students were from around the world. For a
very small startup college is kind of a pre college college,
preparatory sort of program. And there was this one Alaska
native kid that we kind of had a hard time
getting to come to class regularly, and we're really trying
to encourage him, and he just missed the whole day.
The next day, we saw him and I said, hey,
(15:02):
you weren't any of your classes yesterday and he said, well, Molly,
if Danelli came out and I had to stream every
single episode And I said, okay, that's pretty amazing, and
so we could take care of the rest later because
I knew what kind of impact that was like, even
just to talk about that in front of my kid,
I would start tearing up because I thought, we're changing
(15:22):
a world, We're creating a world where there's so much
more that's possible for them. It was just amazing. And
I want to thank you for your your contributions. You
had a strong leadership role in that. And I think
also that there was a lot of community driven in
community based efforts that went into Molly that I think
made it successful, including the first episode where you see
(15:43):
they're talking about boarding schools and language prohibition and coming
back to your culture as an elder who can still
experience growth, and that episode, like, it's just so powerful
to see these children helping to bring the language back
to elders, which is something that was happening in a
(16:04):
lot of our communities.
Speaker 2 (16:06):
Yeah, pay well, thank you for your contributions and being
able to write on the show. And yet it's such
a special thing for us now, huh, now that we're
parents and same, you know, just to see the reaction
still to this day of the impact and the pride
(16:27):
that our kids have, you know, because even before this
came out, there wasn't my boys like didn't have It
wasn't that they weren't proud, but they there is something
about media, mass media and kids being able to see
themselves on the screen in this positive light and it
(16:48):
really filled them with a sense of pride. Like we
had the premiere hand for Airbanks and we did an
invitational afterwards to celebrate. There was drumming, traditional drumming and
singing and everyone got on stage and my boys, I've
never seen them dance so hard, and it was just
that liberating feeling of just like we're here and we're
(17:09):
proud of who we are and we're claiming it and
we have Mollie now, you know, And yes, it's such
a beautiful thing. And like you said, it's the humanization,
you know, when we've just been so utterly dehumanized. And
you know, you think about communities of color, black people,
or take for instance right now, Palestinian people, right and
(17:32):
you look at well, what if they had a Mollie?
It makes a huge difference because I think that ultimately
our values get embedded in this. We know that our values.
I mean that was very intentional that we wanted our
Alaska Native values to be embedded in the series. And
that is the sort of relationality that I was talking
(17:54):
about with our stories, where we don't put ourselves as
human beings on this pedestal, that we don't put ourselves
at the very top. It's like, no, we actually really
do need to sit and listen to what the salmon
are telling us, or the our birch relatives, or the whales.
Speaker 3 (18:13):
The moves.
Speaker 1 (18:13):
Yeah, absolutely, and that just reminds me of your work
in environmental awareness and stewardship and protection of rights, protection
of the Caribou herds. And so as we have more
indigenous content, we have more opportunities to use those as
platforms to talk about things that are really important to
(18:33):
indigenous peoples and communities and languages, and so this is
really exciting. This is really exciting. We're going to take
a little break and we'll come back and we'll talk
about current projects and maybe just this explosion of Indigenous
content on mainstream media, which is super exciting. I feel
like I've been waiting my whole life for this, and
(18:54):
now we have Indigenous superheroes, and we have Indigenous stories
and detectives and everything. We'll be right back.
Speaker 3 (19:14):
One or two or three times. You try any de
not brids. You run all around without your head. Struggle,
yes to day.
Speaker 4 (19:29):
You struggle still today now, but you'll find a broader away.
My brother and sisters, don't you know I found the
way to bring it back for.
Speaker 3 (19:45):
Those who came. Believe in yourself. Now, believe in U somehow,
don not decolor. Nothing is.
Speaker 1 (20:09):
To cut you on. Gonna cha way wachis and the
thing get word for television we came up with. There
was an elder I worked with. Her name is Dastiya Etholmackinin,
and she told me the thing get word for a
movie screen, which was ai, which means the terrifying board.
(20:31):
I guess, and she said, because when Klinga people first
saw movie screens like they're really scared of it. Oh
how interesting, and so we call it a scary box.
But I think it's exciting right now that there's a
lot of Indigenous content that's coming out. And so as
I watched this sort of transition, and I think of
(20:52):
this film because I know you make documentary films as well.
There's a documentary out there called Real Engines are e
e I n Juns, and it talks about this progression
of Native Americans in film, and it was really interesting
to see going from side characters and backdrops to main characters.
(21:15):
And now we're seeing this happen on larger screens and
on larger media platforms and at a wide range of
age levels and genres, and so it's really exciting to
witness this and to see that there's a lot of content,
that there's almost so much Indigenous content out there that
I can't keep up with it. But now I'm backloged
(21:37):
on things to watch. There's zombie movies and there's all
kinds of stuff, and it's exciting to see this. And
so as someone who's in the industry right now, what's
it been like to watch this as your own career
like really blossoms into a producer and writer who's in
a lot of things.
Speaker 2 (21:56):
Yeah, No, it is super exciting and similar. I can't
keep up. And that's the way it should be. I mean,
that is the way it's always been for the dominant culture.
And we're just finally to this place where I'm like, yes,
and more and more, and there's room for more of us,
and it is quality content. I mean, we just have
(22:17):
in indigenous people. We've just like built our capacity and
look we have Lily Gladstone now who is nominated for
an author whoo woo. So it really is incredible and
exciting and you know, and it's just so incredibly diverse.
I mean, we're really like showing people, no, we are
(22:38):
not a monolith. Look at the diversity you could take
you know, any community, and just within that community, I
mean we got queer folk, we get the elders we got,
you know, we just have everybody, and we have our
relatives that are black and indigenous, like and I, by
the way, love you know seeing that we're lifting that
up right now, we're seeing well with True Detective, you
(22:59):
know Kaylee being black and indigenous. Bill Blanchett isn't that
And so just having that like representation and both in
front of and behind the camera with just how many
incredible writers and directors, producers, actors, voice actors and animators
right like we had Spirit Rangers too, And it is
(23:21):
really passed too. It's past two, but I am so
excited and I'm looking forward to more.
Speaker 1 (23:29):
Yeah, And I know sometimes when you're in the process
of making stuff, where as stuff is coming out, you
got to kind of be cautious of what you say. So,
you know, spoilers, but are they? Are there any anything
that you've been involved in recently that you're really excited about?
Speaker 3 (23:46):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (23:47):
Well, you know it's also funny because you know, you
work on something and you know this, you know from
working on Molly, Like you write something and then you
don't get to see it until three years later you're like, oh, yeah,
I wrote that theme pre pandemic you know, so it
is really exciting just to see the representation and all
(24:09):
of so many Alaskan people, Alaskan actors and artists, but
also with Two Detective, it was people from into it,
from Canada and Greenland. So it's really beautiful to see
that representation. Also to know that people are already because
again that was already filmed prior last year. People are
(24:30):
already getting other lead roles and moving on to other series.
So I just am excited, you know again to this
notion of us refining our craft, you know, whether it
be you know, acting, writing, directing, producing, and really thinking
about I had mentioned recently in an article like Alaska
(24:53):
Daily was that was filmed mostly in Vancouver, right, British Columbia,
and of course Eira Starboard and Andrew McLain were able
to be writers on that series, and there was a
lot of Indigenous representation. I don't think we had too
many Alaska Native people. But again that falls under the
film incentive, right, that happens in Canada and what happens
(25:14):
when you film in a place. But that business aspect
and that business element of any series is something that
we really need to take seriously and consider in terms
of like you know, a lot of us we want
to see a film tax incentive program return because it
is a way another way for us to diversify our
economy in Alaska. And quite frankly, we're losing out right,
(25:36):
we're losing work that work to Canada and Iceland in
the case of you know, like The Detective. So I
think that the more we can do to again build
our own capacity and like really hopefully bring back a
film tax incentive program here. I mean, I think we're
ready for a comedy. Who may like, we're ready for
(25:58):
an Alaska Native And I think you're gonna write.
Speaker 1 (26:02):
It if you know, I visit with Firas Starboard and
with Frank Attass and Ed Littlefield, And if we're half
as funny as we think we are, then I think
that's gonna be a pretty funny show. And so I
think you're dead on because if we can find ways
(26:22):
to open these doors for these tax incentives for things
to be filmed here, I mean, we've got such a
wonderful area, like shooting in Alaska would be so wonderful,
and if we could sort of open those doors more,
I think it would be the right time as there's
more and more Indigenous content out there. You mentioned Spirit Rangers, Pray.
(26:44):
I mean, there's so much stuff to go and find
and to go and see where you have strong lead characters,
and I think it's really important to sort of acknowledge
the existence of Sometimes there's a pushback to some of
this stuff, like there's as some Indigenous content. I look
at some of the criticism of it, and I think, well,
where's the praise.
Speaker 2 (27:05):
You know.
Speaker 1 (27:05):
That's one thing I think the media generally can do
is just sort of acknowledge that there's an emergence of
Indigenous content, of Native American content right now, and it's
really exciting, especially as you have things that folks can
relate to. There's so much stuff on reservation dogs, and
there's so much stuff on Rutherford Falls and others like
where I'm watching it and I feel like I would
(27:26):
wait my whole life to hear that speech. But then
also there's jokes, there's teasing, there's these the multi culturalism
and mixing of ethnicities that you talked about that I
think is important so that people who are black and
Indigenous feel seen as black people and as Indigenous peoples,
and so as we're continuing to make content. It's really
(27:48):
exciting to think about the possibilities that are there, especially
as more and more stuff gets made. Then it feels
like it's not we have to tell the story that
people are going to buy. We have to tell the
stories that we feel in our hearts and that we
feel people will connect you, which is more exciting to me.
Speaker 2 (28:06):
Yeah, absolutely, and moving us more in the direction to
where we have more Indigenous people that are at the
helm of the studios, at the helm of you know,
really where a lot of decisions are made in terms
of what shows are going to be greenlit and also
what the process and the mannerism is of creating a
(28:29):
film or a television series. And you know, in my
like radical imagination, we would have our own network here
in Alaska where we would really have true ownership and
that narrative sovereignty where we're green light we're the ones.
We're like we're green lighting the series and the shows
(28:49):
and fighting the audience, which I think, I mean there
is an audience. I mean look at the critical acclaim
and like what you know Reservation Dogs has done, and
you know, other shows in terms of you know, animation,
like how amazing would it be if we were in
an animation hub, like the animation happened. And it's important
to point out that during COVID and like the shutdowns,
(29:11):
animation kept going. It was like the live action stuff
that you know, really had to shut down, and that
could happen anywhere. I was really surprised to learn when
we worked on MOLLI that the animation that we see
on PBS kids like it doesn't happen in the United States.
That animation like we're contracting with studios in like Ireland
and Manila and Vancouver. And why is that? I mean,
(29:35):
can we not be the hub?
Speaker 1 (29:38):
I think we should be, Yeah, exactly because we have
artists with illustrators and we have animators and then they
could learn how to do more and they could teach
folks how to do more. So these are also things
that I think can be localized within Alaska, and Alaska
could become a content creation place. And I love your
idea of Indigenous station basically an indigenous company that's producing
(30:02):
this stuff. And so oev TV came out of Haviti
and was linked to their language movement, and it grew
as their language reclamation movement grew and same with Maudi TV.
And so as I think about these things, these can
not only produce Indigenous content and create more Indigenous content creators,
but then we can also make stuff that's in our
(30:22):
languages because we're making it for ourselves as well as
making it for everyone else. And I think that's really
really exciting. And then that creates opportunities to create some
common content that you can put different languages into. And
I know this is exciting, and I know people get
really excited because Star Wars has been translated into Navojo,
(30:44):
and I think it's being translated into a jibway right now,
and we're going to work on the Tlanget version, and
I want to voice Darth Vader though, so the absolution,
I mean.
Speaker 2 (30:56):
You could actually a few of the characters today.
Speaker 1 (31:00):
But so it's really exciting to envision these futures and
to dream these futures and then to see because we
mentioned several shows out there, and so on every major
streaming platform, there's an indigenous show on there. So if
you've got Max, look at the new season of True Detective.
If you've got Hulu Reservation Dogs, you've got Netflix Spirit Rangers,
(31:22):
you've got Disney plus Echo, and so there's indigenous content
on every single one of these platforms, and that means
it's going to continue to open these doors. And so
it's exciting to think about these projects because there's so
many stories that I think one of the really difficult
parts of being indigenous in North America is that most
(31:44):
people don't listen to your stories and don't know your stories.
They live on your land, and they don't know how
much your people have suffered just so that they could
live on your land, and so you end up in
this realm of invisibility, and the suffering that your people
have gone through is invisible. So as we look at
sort of more indigenous content, we're erasing that invisibility. And
(32:09):
I think it's something that humanizes indigenous peoples and humanizes
the descendants of the colonizers who have been sort of
fed this false narrative that Native Americans are subhuman And
so as they sort of engage in that they could
become better guests on indigenous land.
Speaker 2 (32:29):
Absolutely, and in the best case scenario, you know, they
really are emulating and taking on the way we relate
to these places. Right, Like one of the anecdotes that
I heard from a non native parent, a white mom
a couple of years ago was She's like, you know,
ever since my kids started watching Mollia d Nali, they
(32:51):
go around thanking nature. And I'm like, yes, that is
exactly you know what needs to happen. You know, we
oftentimes are so what we see on social media, which,
by the way, most of that is just just not healthy.
It's not healthy for our children, it's not healthy for us.
(33:13):
It can be used, of course as a powerful tool,
I think for ed public education and organizing, but there's
also a lot of just negativity. So I think that
the more that we're able to be together in real
life and get beyond our biases and have real conversations
(33:34):
that maybe are spurred by some of the things that
you know, we see in media is critical because we
have to be able to see each other as human
beings and respect one another, even if we don't see
to eye on everything, if we don't agree on everything,
we just have to have that like love of that
certain level of respect. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (33:54):
Well the cut that the quidsity, just to cut that
to tea. There's a spirit in everything, and we respect,
we give respect to all things. That's something that we
were taught. So we're gonna take our second break, folks.
We'll be right back. Clain he.
Speaker 3 (34:31):
Yah yah, God said, oh God, a Connor yna to.
Speaker 1 (35:30):
Cut you on, and we're back. Lily Gladstone was a
Golden Globe winner, I think, the first Indigenous person to
receive this, the first Indigenous woman to receive this, and
in her acceptance speech she said, this is for every
little reds kid, This for every little Native kid. And
(35:52):
so in the spirit of that, thinking of what you've done,
you're out there, you're a your trailblazer in this field
among many other people. But there's lots of folks who
are going to follow you now. And so for those
Native people who are thinking about this as a dream,
which I think when I was dreaming this stuff, it
(36:12):
felt really impossible. And so how do we make that
more possible for the future generation of Indigenous content creators.
Speaker 2 (36:20):
Yeah, it's hard for it not to feel a little impossible.
And even as we learn and grow, there's always like
when you get over one peak and then you're like oh,
and then you look and you're like, oh my gosh,
there's another. There's another. I might before another peak, which
is how I feel kind of after every project and
starting a new project. And I think it's absolutely critical
(36:44):
that we have our support groups, you know, like the
people in your circle that could be your family and
your friends, or people like yourself that are also you know,
writing and directing and producing and creatives, especially as Indigenous people.
You know, there's going to be that moment where you're
(37:04):
faced with a just a difficult conversation or a different
difficult you know, something comes up, you know, in the
process of your creative work where you just need to
be able. I need to be able to be like
June Yo, I just had this really difficult conversation and
I need to I need a sounding board. I really
need the support. And I think that is really you
(37:28):
know critical, Like I just whenever possible try not to
be the only Indigenous person in a room. I will
advocate and work to make sure that I have another
Indigenous person in that room with me, because we need
each other. We really need each other. I think, especially
on you know, kind of like these larger projects, and
I remember, you know, working on Molly and Sydney Isaacs.
(37:51):
Having her in those discussions and in the room like
made a big difference. And so that's like one of
the things you know that we kind of in our membran,
I'm of a agreement like just making sure that you know,
we have as many of our own people as possible
on these projects that feature us, right, Like that makes
sense and not to be you know, I think it's
(38:12):
a creative Like you do something, you know, you write
a script and then it airs and then there's always
like this other work that comes before you. And I
think it's important to celebrate, celebrate the work that you do.
If you write a poem, if you write a paper,
if you translate a traditional story, or you learn how
(38:33):
to tell better yet a traditional story, if you do
a piece of voice acting or whatever it is, honor
and celebrate that you did that thing, and think the
people that around you that made that possible. You know,
I'm a mom, I have a you know, my obligation
(38:53):
as a partner and a mother, and a lot of
the work that I do would not be possible if
it weren't for you know, my family just being like okay,
you have to go travel right now. We understand and
maybe sometimes I don't understand them, you know.
Speaker 5 (39:06):
I still got to thank them for like giving me
the grace, you know, and the space to do what
I love to do that you know, feeds my spirit.
Speaker 2 (39:16):
But sometimes it's some projects are easier than others. But
I can't underscore enough that just you need your people.
You need your people around you that just like they're
your cheerleaders that just love and support you, but also
you know, push you to excel in your craft. That's
really important to you have to be open to feedback
(39:37):
because our craft and refining who we are as artists
is linked to our spiritual growth.
Speaker 1 (39:47):
Yeah, well, good of cheese. And sometimes when you're you're
a writer in a room and you might have seven
eight different comments that are coming in and different everyone's
got their own collor to give you a comment, and
you're going to experience some things where maybe I remember
I wrote a script and they said no, no, this
would be really funny, do this, and so I was like, okay,
So then I wrote it in there, and then at
(40:09):
a later point they said you can't do that. I said, okay,
well you guys, okay, I'll take it out, you know.
And so also you've got to just sort of be
kind of free flowing. It's such an interesting thing because
I think you've got to be in this realm of
being creative, finding the story, finding the characters, finding the moments,
but then also be flexible in what you're doing so
that you can hear it, because sometimes someone's going to
(40:32):
have an idea and you're like, oh, yeah, that works
really well. And so I really love how it's a
collaborative environment. And I also want to echo what you
said was get yourself a squad that you can just
call on, and you can and they they're also in
the industry and they know what it's like to be
in some of these rooms and to be in some
of these situations. And I would say, if you're pretty
(40:54):
early on in your career, be realistic about your deadlines too,
because you're finding success. The odds are you've got twenty
different projects going at the same time, and you're trying
to figure out how to keep your focus and keep
your ability to hit deadlines reasonably close. Anyways, you know,
sometimes you could be a couple of days late. But
just to sort of stay on top of these projects
(41:16):
and also not get overwhelmed, I think is really important too,
so that that deadline is coming, That deadline is coming,
but then you can still say oh yeah, okay. And
I also want to thank my family and my friends,
but especially my close family for understanding that sometimes I'm
going to need to go eight hour solid on this
thing and stay up all night and get this thing.
(41:38):
And it feels so great to like send it off
like there's the scripts. You know, I somehow did it,
and so then to move on to the next one.
And so hit your deadlines as best you can, give
yourself time space, water, take a walk when you need to,
and yeah, have that support group out there, so you
(42:01):
are in my circle of supporters. And so I really
want to thank you for all the times that you've
helped me, both when we're working on Molly and also
just in general, just life in general, because being an
indigenous person sometimes is tough because you've got language stuff
and decolonization stuff and creative stuff and you're really trying
(42:23):
to weave all of this together into some kind of
tapestry that that's going to work somehow. So those of
you who are working on this stuff, for thinking about it,
keep going and keep dreaming any of the thoughts you
want to share with these future creators.
Speaker 2 (42:37):
Yeah, just in terms of like the creative process, and
like the notes process, like you get to a point
where it's just like you be the sponge, like take
everything in, but also like you'll get to a place
where you'll just in story and in what you're trying
to express, where you know, also know it's okay to
push back. Like there's times and there's especially if you're
(43:01):
working with people that are not Indigenous, where you have
to push back. And what I say to that is
just really be thoughtful because some people are very literal
or maybe even a little dense, like it's hard for
them to understand a different culture. And so just really
be thoughtful about the choices, the creative choices that you make,
(43:24):
and being able sometimes to fight for those I don't
want to say fight, but it is a fight sometimes.
I mean there's times you'll feel like you are in
the trenches advocating, and that's our lives as indigenous people.
I think, no matter what we do, there's going to be,
you know, that sense of fighting for justice or just
(43:46):
to be seen as fully human, or for someone to
understand that their worldview is not the center of the universe.
Then we bring this indigenous world view. So I would
just say, just trust your spirit, and you know there's
also like you know, couldn't they said that, there's times
like people just off handedly have some criticism or make
(44:07):
a note and you can just say, oh, I understand,
or let me get clarity about understanding what you're telling
me in this note, and then once you understand that,
you can repeat it back to them and say, well,
I'm actually coming from this perspective, and you try to
find the happy medium. I mean, maybe think there's a
(44:27):
little compromise there, but yeah, just trust your instincts. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (44:32):
Well, and I think another important aspect is as an
indigenous person, sometimes this might feel like this isn't something
that Indigenous people do, you know, and so it does
take a bit of courage to step out and to
put yourself out there, and to also like stay connected
(44:52):
to your people, and stay connected to your communities, and
stay connected to your stories, your elders, your children. And
so just because you're getting into the entertainment industry doesn't
mean you have to disconnect from these and become something else.
Like you amplify this voice that you have and these
words that you've developed, and these stories that have been
(45:15):
rattling around in your mind, and that sometimes just come
to you, and sometimes they come through these collaborative processes.
So I think it's important too to see yourself always
as an Indigenous content creator who's connected to the people,
who stays humble, who stays ready, to just listen and
(45:35):
continue to explore what it means to be a storyteller,
because we've we've always had storytellers. Our peoples have always
had storytellers, and those storytellers did wonderful things. And we're
this generation of storytellers, and we're going to leave stuff
for the future generations of storytellers. And if things are
(45:55):
going to keep going the way they are, there's just
going to be more and more and more content. And
it's really exciting to witness it and to also to
think about the incredible contributions of all these Indigenous actors,
all these Indigenous writers, all these Indigenous peoples who've opened
door after door after door and been the only Indigenous
(46:17):
person in the room and had those hard conversations where
everybody thinks there's some great idea there, and you've got
to stand up and say, Okay, it's a bad idea. Okay,
this's going to hurt somebody, Okay, inauthentic, you know. And
so but as this stuff goes forward, it's really exciting
to see. I'm so glad you're able to spend some
time with us.
Speaker 2 (46:37):
I mean, we could talk for hours on this subject,
you know. But I just you know, for those people
that are considering or maybe feeling a little hesitant about,
you know, entering, whether it be trying out acting or
writing or directing, I would say, just have fun, do it, experiment,
(46:59):
get your friends together, use your iPhone. Like I'm really
I'm constantly blown away by the content that I see
on like TikTok or YouTube or you know, people are
making things that are super fun and creative and using
our languages and just more of that.
Speaker 1 (47:17):
Yeah. Absolutely, So if you want to write poetry, write poetry.
You want to make music, make music. If you want
to get into screenplay writing, there's formatting stuff that's a
part of it. You're going to have to keep track
of characters and dialogue and how to There is a
whole way to get into that. And so there's lots
of opportunities out there for screenwriting classes. There's books on screenwriting. Now,
(47:41):
there's books. I'm being a person of color who's a screenwriter,
and there's so much stuff that's out there, and so
I would say, be creative, believe in yourself, get that
get those fingers moving, whether you're typing or you got
a pen, and just keep that little cursor moving to
the next line. And as you start to put these
(48:03):
things together, find other content creators so that you can
collaborate with them, because sometimes I think you have to
have these conversations about what is what does it really
take to get this thing finished and to get it
into production into I remember seeing the first episode I
wrote of Molly of Dnally, and I was so nervous
(48:25):
to watch it with my family because I'm like, look,
there's there's people who are doing these things that I wrote.
And I remember I wrote in there a really bad joke,
like I wanted to have a bad joke, like a
native MC who was just not great at telling jokes.
And so I think it was what's orange and sounds
like a parrot? A carrot and you know and so,
(48:45):
and in the script says nobody laughs and then there's
a single cough, you know and so, and when it happened,
I laughed so hard, and I remember people who were
watching with me like, it's not that funny. I was like,
that's the part. And so just to see that your
vision can become a reality if you continue to believe
(49:07):
in yourself and to believe in others. I do believe
that when you uplift someone else, we all go higher.
So it's been such a pleasure to spend some time
with you. I'm so excited with all the things that
you're doing and all the things that you're going to do.
I think in December of twenty twenty two, it was
the first time they had a family version for the Emmys,
(49:30):
so the Emmys for Children and Families Television, and there
was a whole crew of Indigenous peoples because Molly of
Danelle sent a gang and it was so much fun
to be there and to see everybody just going all
out and enjoying themselves and celebrating the excellence and seeing
that Molly was getting recognition.
Speaker 2 (49:50):
Cherished memory is just seeing us all together in our regalia,
and again it's that element of celebration and like you said,
just lifting each each other up and the continuation of
working on our craft. And we can all ride this
wave together and we should, and there's room for all
(50:11):
of us and yeah, let's tell these stories.
Speaker 1 (50:15):
Oh gonna jeees, folks. This has been The Tongue Unbroken
with Princess Deshrai Johnson, an incredible writer, producer, actor. There's
probably ten other things that we can add on there.
My gosh, thanks so much, folks. And wherever you're at,
whatever you're doing, believe in yourself, keep going because you
(50:37):
never know you're going to be the one that opens doors.
You're going to be the one that tells the next
great story, and there's going to be another great story
after that. So I'm so thankful for all these opportunities
and just there's networks of people behind every one of
these projects, and that includes non Indigenous peoples who are
saying we should listen to Indigenous peoples and we should
(50:57):
grant them an opportunity, and we should get them up
on the stage and give them a voice and hear
what they have to say. And this indigenization of media
and content production is amazing and it wouldn't be possible
without amazing people. We say strong, believe in yourself, little
chich The Tongue Unbroken is a production of the iHeartMedia Network.
(51:20):
Next up Initiative Good to Chiese, to producers Joel Monique
and Mia Taylor. We'll be back next week, Gonna chice
claim st.
Host
X̱ʼunei Lance Twitchell
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