Prey! Indigenizing Hollywood and Learning About Comanche

Dr. Kathryn Pewenofkit Briner, Comanche Nation’s Director of Language Planning and Development, talks about her role in the creation of the film Prey, about the film itself, and about Comanche language activities. Joey Clift, writer, performer, and enrolled Cowlitz Indian Tribal Member currently living in Los Angeles, talks about the film, Native Americans in film, current and future projects, and Indigenizing Hollywood! Learn more about the Comanche Language Department at http://talkcomanche.org and Joey Clift at joeyclift.com. Follow Tongue Unbroken on Twitter, Facebook and our Official Website

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Play dart. They tried calling uses, try to genocide us.
Yet I'm still here with the tongue un rope and

(00:26):
clean goodness cheese your wish to cut you, Hans Suha,
cock yall what coudnate? Goot k Thank you everyone for
joining us. The sun has broken on us again, that
daylight has broken upon us again, although there might be

(00:47):
an alien presence coming around. So today we are going
to be talking about Pray, the fifth installment of the
Predators series and the greatest Predator film ever made. Don't
come at me because you will be destroyed. I'm just kidding. Uh.

(01:10):
We are going to be joined by Dr Kate Pete
enough Kitt Briner, the Commanche Nations director of Language Planning
and Development, to talk about this film, and we are
also me joined by Joey Clift, writer, performer comedian enrolled Kells,
Indian tribal member was living in Los Angeles. I'm so

(01:31):
thankful that they joined us for this interview, this special
Pray Predator Frybred Taco episode. We we're gonna talk about
this film now. You need to know right off the
bat if you have not seen this film, cond qua
goot shame, will walk upon you. However, you could hit pause,

(01:55):
you can run watch it, take a run back, and
we're got talk about this film. It's amazing, it's incredible.
So we're going to jump into these conversations. And before
we do, I want to make one slight correction to
last week's episode episode with Dr Saul Neely. The Alaska

(02:18):
Native Land Claims Settlement Act, which we call ANSA. If
you could say ANSCA, then that's a funky dialect. But hey,
go ahead, go ahead. The Alaska Native Land Claim Settlement
Act is an important piece of legislation. I believe I
said it involved about a billion dollars and eleven million

(02:39):
acres of land, when it is forty four million acres
of land. So you an the purists out there, I
do apologize. I'm not sure why I said that number.
I teach classes about an SA and anyways I have
in the past, so nu to cut you on us

(03:11):
to eating quan. I'm so happy to present these two
conversations with you. I will be will putting agether back
to back and then come back check in, close it
up again. We will be telling you all kinds of
stuff that happens in this film. So don't freak out

(03:31):
if you hear some stuff and you're like, I wanted
to be surprised by the plot structure of this film,
but it shouldn't surprise you. What should surprise you or
which should impress you? What blew me away is the
incredible performances, the authenticity, the fact that we have a

(03:53):
native film that that features indigenous peoples at the front
and having their language and having an overdubbed one in
their language. Incredible stuff. So we're gonna jump into the
first interview then to be a little commercial break. Probably
just go straight to the commercial come back interview number two.

(04:17):
More back to wrap cheese. I'm gonna chee your way
to cut you on ya in a show dot anti
doc pee Enough Kate, Kate Brianer. I'm so happy that
you're joining us to talk about the film Prey and

(04:40):
about the Comanche language. So would you introduce yourself to
our listeners? But await Nini, it's Kate enough get Brainer, No,
no nani its yana villa nasa No. Uh, this night

(05:01):
ship didn't Uh Dalton Gant fort Worth night Dinner Sanny. Hello, everybody,
My name is kpe p n get Brainer, I live
in Latton, Oklahoma, and I live on my homeland of
the Kaiwa, Comanche and Apache people. Uh. And I grew

(05:23):
up in Fort Worth, which is only two two hours away,
but it seems like a world away from from our
reservation boundaries and um, and I'm glad to be here. Cheese.
I've been a fan of your work since we met.
I think during kay was it the Natives four Linguistics

(05:44):
conferences that we were going to probably five or six
years ago, uh, and then following you on social media,
and then when this film. When I first heard about
this film, my first thought was, I bet you had
something to do with some of the things that went
on here. So could you talk to us about what

(06:06):
your role was and what the experience was being a
part of this. Sure? Uh So the only thing I
didn't say a minute ago was that I am the
It's a long title Director of Language Planning and Development
for the Commanche Nation and um, that's been a long journey.
We are now out of the planning stages doing implementation

(06:28):
for our ten year plan that aligns with the u
N Declaration of Indigenous Languages, Declaration of the Decade of
Indigenous Languages. So we have a declaration of Comanche Language
and Culture UM and UH. This opportunity came about because
there was a previous producer named Oneita pat a pony

(06:51):
Uh and uh Destin tomacare as well, who were producers
for at the time it was titled Skulls UM And unfortunately,
during COVID, Juanita, who I consider an anti um, passed away.
Gosh this August, it will be two years ago now, UM,

(07:13):
so you know, fortunately it wasn't COVID, but it was
a situation where she went into the hospital uh and
probably waited a little too long because of COVID H.
So you know, she was involved. And then Jane Myers
took over, and so Jane was very adamant about culture,
about language um being uh really true, being a true

(07:39):
representation of our people um. And originally they wanted to
film the entire film in Commanchee uh and we weren't
able to as a language department are our mission is
to service the needs of our tribal members and so

(08:00):
it was going to be too time intensive for us
to be involved at that point, and so they had
decided to move forward with an English version with a
couple of Comanche phrases words um and then uh, we
had the opportunity once we're in post production to do
the commanche dub. Incredible. The film is Pray. You can

(08:21):
find it on Hulu. You need to watch it if
you haven't seen it as the greatest film I've seen
this year. It's so impactful just to have Native American
people at the center, to have Native American storytelling that
doesn't fall into the typical sort of categories that we see.
You know, they gotta fight the predator and they do uh,

(08:44):
and so it's so exciting. I'm so happy to hear
about your work and the the stuff that you're doing,
and very sorry to hear about the losses in your community.
I know firsthand what it's like to lose. It's like
a whole library burn down when you lose someone who
is so wonderful, and especially when they're elders or birth speakers,

(09:07):
and it's such a hard thing to recover from and
to to know what you lose. But coming back to uh,
the film. So we're gonna talk about the film for
a little bit and then we're going to transition and
talk about your work and what you folks are doing there.
It's very exciting. I'm so happy to hear about all
the good things that are going on. Uh. But I

(09:29):
guess let's start with this, Like, so, how how does
the film stay authentic to being Comanche and still reach
wide audiences? Wow, that's a big question. Um. You know,
we Commitchee people have been a staple in the Western
for a long time, and I think that this this

(09:55):
was that opportunity to just show us as a real people, uh,
who are vital, who are invested in what they're doing.
And um, just that that portrayal of of real people
who aren't you know, speaking uh like a pigeon or

(10:16):
and like how uh you know, it's like it's being
just being full fleshed people. Um. Jane Myers, Uh, you know,
again going back to this this feeling of being adamant
about stuff. So even when they were doing the costumes, uh,
they had the buckskin with the earth pigments, they had

(10:41):
what we call the Comanche grain. Um. If you'll notice
that on Madaru, the main character, the hand rolled a
fringe on her leggings. Uh, you know, just those type
of touches. I think we're really important in the film.
We were laughing because because they came and did a screener. Uh,

(11:04):
it was probably in April, and uh, the only one
of the things. The first thing that people noticed is
that our tps are Ghani are always facing east, and
then the film they're not facing east. Oh so yeah,
so you know they're still I mean, there's still little things,
of course, but it was a really impressive attempt to

(11:29):
showcase Comanche culture. Um. And then even using those isolated language, uh,
those isolated words in the English version, which some people
thought was a little weird, but I think it's it's
good too, Like some people need a stepping stone, um,
And so maybe that was a good introduction to some
of the language, whereas they would have been overwhelmed with

(11:50):
the Comanche dub. Yeah. And I was so excited that
there seemed to be chunks that weren't translated and that
were whole phrases right, like whole munications that were happening
in Comanche. But just based on what was going on,
I could figure out approximately what they were probably saying.
And I'm really excited about the Comanche dub version. And

(12:12):
I'm gonna now that I've watched it in English, because
I don't speak Comanche. Unfortunately. Now I'm going to watch
it with the Comanche dub and I'm so excited to
to see that and too to hear more about that experience. Uh.
But one of the things that I really love about
this film is that you have a female Native American

(12:33):
character who was experiencing some some misogyny from her own
people and then encounters uh this onate, this alien and
then encounters some some lad cross some French trappers, which
I'm sure we'll get to. We're not going to start
with them, We'll get to them. But like for me,

(12:55):
having a female character who like relying on her own
strength and power becomes victorious was so satisfying for me
because that's typically not the narrative and so I was
really happy to see that, and um, what are your thoughts? Who? So,
when the first little tidbits came out about Skull, the

(13:19):
character was named gay, which means no, and it seemed
a little funny because they, you know, they were saying,
it's it's a woman going against gender norms and all
the of course, all the Camanchee people are saying, but
our women didn't have that issue. Um, so will I mean,
I do think that there were women who had UH.

(13:41):
They probably did deal with misogyny. They probably did deal
you know, because we have a there's a certain word
about UH and I can't think of the name for
it right now, the word but um. If a woman
was caught in a like an adulterous relationship, right, her
husband had the right to like maybe cut off her nose. Um.

(14:03):
So there was that type of situation every once in
a while. But Comanche women had an extraordinary amount of agency. UM.
So I think that the story of Natu really is
the story of it could be the story of a
Comanche woman UM in seventeen nineteen. And we're keen observers

(14:24):
of nature, right, and that's that's like Naru's superpower through
the whole movie. Even her brother at one point says,
you see everything. You see things I don't see. And
I think that was something that was really wonderful about
her character arc is that she she always believed in herself.
And I guess maybe misogyny wasn't even the right word,
but she was. She was experiencing some teasing and some

(14:46):
other stuff about stepping out of a role and stepping
into a role that she wasn't expected to, uh, but
I think that she was able to watch everything and
then calculate in her mind what she would do. It
shows wonderful intelligence, It shows adaptation, it shows strength, that
shows courage, like by far the most courageous character. And

(15:11):
I really liked the relationship that was there and that
continued and that developed with her brother, leading to the
point where he said, you know, basically it's gonna be
you now when he knew what was about to happen.
And that was a powerful moment because then he was
basically showing belief in her and also sort of opening

(15:35):
the door for like making a contribution anyways to her success.
So thinking about the role of um Comanche in this
film and to have these characters that were that were
developed in relationship with with Comanche peoples, like what about

(15:56):
the overdub process, like once you got there? Like I'm
sure like similar things. We had a film that was
done entirely in Heida. It's called Edge of the Knife.
It's amazing, especially when you consider that there's probably fewer
than twenty height of speakers that remain. And so for us,
like we'd love to do a film and thing it,

(16:16):
but it would be a huge challenge to get the
actors to get up to speed with their pronunciation, to
be able to commit to memory these lines, and to
be able to communicate things that sound authentic to us
in terms of how we would do that. So, I
I imagine the film was a huge, amazing journey, and

(16:38):
the dub was probably its own journey. Can you talk
about that process? I can. Um. So, I was actually
working on the captions for the English version, um and
they wanted us all to go to l A to
work on the dub, which would include the strain adaptation.

(17:00):
Um so. Actually, so I was under orders not to
fly at the time because I have a cyst in
the middle of my brain and it was symptomatic, so
we couldn't have any pressure changes. Uh. So they brought
the entire production team to Oklahoma City. Yeah. Um and

(17:23):
Pixel Logic Media had was a fantastic is a fantastic company.
They supported it wholeheartedly. They had been involved in the
dub of Star Wars and Finding Nemo when it was
in Navajo to name, so they thought this was a
fantastic opportunity. So they didn't just send like a sound

(17:45):
engineer a dubbing producer, They sent the head of dubbing,
they sent the head of sound engineering. Um so they
were very invested in this. Um So, we were there
for three days, uh it. And so they brought me
Guy Narcomy. So this is where it's a little weird

(18:09):
with the Hollywood thing. So normally we would get our
elders together, our elder speakers, um and toss it around,
figure out what we want to say. But Hollywood moves
at a completely different speed. Um So, as the you know,
the two uh probably youngest conversationally proficient speakers. Uh we

(18:32):
felt it was a good compromise to bring the two
of us together to work on the screen adaptation for
the Comanche, and to actually record the guide tracks as
well for the actors. Um So, Guy is a very
he has a very free attitude about our language. Um

(18:52):
It's about feeling, and I'm very much the opposite. I'm
very analytical about our language. I wanted to be right.
I have that linguist brain. Uh so, and like right
is in terms of like grammatical I wanted people to
hear grammatical input and uh so, I think you know,

(19:13):
we actually worked very well together as a team, and
we could see what we wanted to do. So like
I would say I want to say this here, and
I'd say, well, that doesn't work if we would say
it this way. What do you think about that? And
you'd go, yeah, I like that, what do you think
about this? Um? So we're able to come up with
that that adaptation, which was also important to keep it like, uh,

(19:35):
there are certain things in the English version we wouldn't
say in Comanche um right, so we were able to say, okay,
well we would say it this way and let's keep
it that way. So that actually got so like those
true Comanche moments got biggest laughs because we were like,
yes in the audience um or moments where there's a

(19:58):
scene where she said you don't know that I'm killing
you and in English it's okay. But when I recorded
the guide track and we had figured out why exactly
what we wanted to say, and we get to that
in part where she says bick you, and it's like
the whole room you could hear everybody go that's it.

(20:21):
So it was and then getting things in there like
our old people say when say men say yeah, it's
kind of like that filler sound um. And then things
like oh, yeah. Um, so hearing those little things that
truly make it commande were really important. I'm not sure

(20:41):
if I answered your question, but no, that's great, that's wonderful.
And I think like when you think of building a
language movements, one of the exciting parts is that there
are experiences that those who speak the language or learn
to speak the language, they get these additional experiences. And
a lot of our people, because we've gone through so

(21:02):
much trauma, sometimes they'll say, oh, you're keeping that from me,
where it's sort of like no, we're actually we're inviting
you here to come and to be this and to
see this, so that if you can speak Commanche, then
the English version is going to hit differently, and then
the Comanche dub version is going to just be in
a whole other universe in terms of what you get
to experience. And so I'm very very excited and happy

(21:25):
that that that has happened, and that that's something that
your people have now and that your language community has,
and it just I'm thinking it's going to generate a
lot of excitement and interest and for folks to think, wow,
there's this whole thing, and then it there's it links
to these other opportunities and these other types of of adventures,

(21:46):
and so it's amazing, it really is. I think. Um.
I hadn't watched the English version for about six weeks
because of working on the dub for so long, and
when I went back and had to do the final captions,
I watched the English person and I just thought to myself, well,

(22:08):
this is odd. It doesn't seem right anymore. Um, And
then watched the Comanchee version again and I was like,
this is how it should be. That's how it should be,
that's how we should make it. We'll be right back.
Good enough, Chief, what's happening, baby? This colonization ship got
you blow? You gotta get on this decolization. It's time

(22:35):
the language revitalization all across North America, the land of
the language coming back into the hands of future generations
where it all blows rocks up and have your voices
be heard, beat all the colonial forces that try to
hold you down, and and yeah, and that the film

(23:05):
takes it like we are in this just barely pre
contact universe, which I thought was very very that's a
great choice. It was a great choice in terms of
placing the story because then they commence. You people's are
encountering this alien and then they're encountering this whole other

(23:27):
group of aliens, which gets us to the French trappers.
And so one of the things that I really enjoyed
is that they just seemed pretty foreign to the whole thing,
because as a Native American who has grown up watching
movies like it's usually a story about white people, like

(23:49):
even Native American films historically are usually films about white people,
and they get they just take over the narrative. And
to see like that they didn't even come close to
happening here was beyond relief. It was like, as I
was watching the film, I thought, wouldn't it be wonderful
if like they just got out of the film right

(24:13):
And they did, And so it was sort of this
thing where like I kind of it was like, boy,
I hope this happens, And it absolutely happened. Um, so
let's talk about these French trappers a little bit. So
it was a very deliberate decision by the production team
to not even translate the French with the captions. Um,

(24:35):
and it's it's I have to go back and watch
the English version and I have to make sure but
in the command she dub there's very definitely it's just
French on the captions. So unless you speak French, you
don't know what's going on, which is kind of that
turnaround from old westerns where they have them speaking whatever
language and you don't know what's going on. Right then

(24:58):
you don't really know what the French trappers are doing, what,
what is their purpose here, what's happening. And then the
thing that I love the most is not only do
they disappear, but when when the captions are going through,
you see like French chapper number one and then he
dies French trapper number two and then he does, and

(25:20):
so that again is turning it on its head when
it would be like Indian number one or what's the
other caption thing that happens where they go like natives chattering,
like chattering really yeah, And and and then you have
and so in this in this particular scene, like this

(25:40):
part where they're where French trappers numbers whatever are there,
and I love that, by the way. But then so
they capture her and she's in a cage and they're
they're harassing her, and there's some kind of mildly traumatic
moments with that, just with missing and murdered and did
as women and the violence of white people against Indigenous

(26:03):
women and against indigenous people's But then to see that
she she gets out of not only does she get
out of that, but the death their deaths uh help
her figure out what she needs to do to defeat
this the predator. And and the setup for me was, Okay,

(26:23):
there was this trap, and so I thought, Okay, there's
gonna be white people here and they're probably gonna screw
up a whole bunch of stuff. That was just my expectation,
and my expectation was met. And then and then there
was the scene where she comes upon the buffalo and
and for people who are from that you know, I'm
not from that area, but I went to college in Minneapolis,

(26:44):
and I know lots of people who are were from
that region. And to just think of how traumatic that is.
But then you know, to see like there's a bigger,
scarier thing that's coming. And so to have these things
coming at the same time was such an interest seeing
decision as far as the film goes, and then to
see her have a role in beating everybody, it was

(27:07):
just so satisfying to to witness this take place in
this film. Yeah, it really was in that buffalo. I'm
like spoiler, so if you haven't seen the film, don't
listen right now. Um. One of our apprentices said, oh, man,
I thought it was the I thought it was the

(27:29):
predator that killed the buffalo. And I was like, that's
what you were supposed to think. First of all, two
predator is not really the bad guy here. Um, No, yeah,
it was. It's that's you know, when she's in that cage,
I had that thought to like, this could go terribly wrong. Um.

(27:50):
You know, also when she's in the fight with Wassap right, um,
and they're having that fist fight outside with her own
with those boys, right, the Comanche boys. And I do
think that that's an issue that needs to be addressed
a little bit because of this violence against Native women. Um.
I also think it's just it was a It was

(28:12):
a way to show that not you can just hold
her own, because she does, like she holds her own
against what's opic. She holds her own against the French trappers. Um.
And with the French trappers, there's that moment where you
can see she has decided at the end when she
goes back to get Sadi. Yeah, right, and then and

(28:34):
to see like, I think she always had the intention
of succeeding in the things that she does, but she's
trying to get better at it, and she's trying to
think about her own weapon technology and her techniques. And
then to see her towards the end where she's sort
of yeah, she just knows she has to and then

(28:54):
she absolutely executes with and shows incredible intelligence and courage
and ability and physical strength. Like to see all of
those things and to say, you know, I have two daughters,
and that I want them to be able to see
stuff like this, you know, when they're ready, like that
they're they're a little young for for this, but when

(29:15):
they're ready, like to see that that violence does not
end Native women, like Native women can overcome violence. But
then hopefully that leads to additional conversations about like how
do we collectively just do away with the amount of
violence against Native American women? And so I like that
this gives us these launching off points in a science

(29:38):
fiction horror universe, right, And so again coming back to
this idea that it doesn't always have to be the
cowboy Indian sort of trope that that we've seen over
and over and over and that we can have this
pre contact film and then we can have this amazing story,
and then we can talk about all these great things
that happened in the film. And then what I want

(30:03):
to talk about now is what's going on with you
guys this language program, Like what kind of things are
you doing? Because I'm hoping that the interests in this
film will generate interest in your folks as languages, which
will just sort of keep building momentum on what you
folks have been doing. Yeah. So, um, let me preface

(30:24):
it all with saying, I think the opportunity we're in
the same situation that you mentioned earlier with like thinking
about the number of first language speakers or first speakers,
um so with fewer than I think in we said
eleven um and that was accounted by our museum and

(30:46):
with COVID, and just due to their age, we are
down to about five or six now. So you know
the fact that guy and I were able to come
together and kind of put our brains together and come
up with something shows that, uh, we can do that right,
and we can be innovative, and um so that has

(31:11):
generated a whole bunch of interest in our young people.
They want to know more about the language. They want
to know how they can learn the language. They want
to know what they can do in order to help
themselves learn the language. UM. And as the director of
our language program, who has to think about the needs
of all of our tribal citizens and descendants, right, Um,

(31:36):
you know, and we are spread all over the world.
So approximately of us are in the seven county service
area here, the rest are everywhere. We even have a
family in New Zealand. So I'm thinking to myself, how
do I get to them? How do we get them
language resources? Um? First step pray? UM. So yeah, we uh.

(32:03):
With our tenure plan, we are going to do three
cohorts of adult immersion where it's a full time job
to learn the language and to become conversationally proficient, as
well as to get the professional development to learn how
to teach and be effective teachers. UM. So by the
end of this we should have graduated at least twenty

(32:26):
four people. Uh. We even have a partnership with our
early childcare where they're giving us two employees and still
paying their salary. UH, so that they can be in
the immersions and then go back and do a language
nest at the end of the three years, give us
two more employees. Uh. And Comanche Academy are public charter school.
We have one of the teachers from there this round,

(32:48):
and we'll probably have another one next next round. UH.
So we also have the public charter school, which this
is our second year. They just started on Thursday. UH.
And those kids are just spoken up the language. UM.
So we're trying to get them as much as many
resources as we can. We have. UH. If you're familiar

(33:10):
with Ilda that the Miami tribe designed, it's a database
and uh dictionary, and so with that we can put
in audio video. So we have we literally because of capacity,
we only have one recording in the ILDA database and

(33:32):
it is the pledge of allegiance in Comanche. So the
state law says that the kids at the academy have
to say once a week to the flag, but it
does not state which language. So I guess what. H
So our children are spending time without recording a more
syntomic era and they sound like first speakers. I mean,

(33:54):
it's it's amazing. Uh So I can't I even shared
it with the National Breath of Life people like Darryl
Baldwin drama vials, because with just that one recording it
has made such a difference. Um, I can't wait until
it's full. Yeah. Absolutely, and it's so exciting to hear
because you have to. You know, it's a it's a

(34:16):
whole picture thing if to think about adults and creating speakers,
and a lot of that involves overcoming traumas and doubts
and avoidance and a lot of things like that, and
then dealing with children, and then you have different some
of the complexities there are just teaching children all the time,
which could be exhausting and fulfilling, and but then you

(34:41):
see fewer sort of emotional and sometimes spiritual barriers. That's
my experiences with children as they just start talking and
they're they're absorbing the language. But your adults. I think
one of the things that we've dealt with in our
region is the idea that there's some adults who say
I wish I would have learned it when I was
a child often and I can't understand that because it's

(35:02):
absolutely you know, that would have been wonderful. But I
just want to make sure that adults know that they
have the same opportunities to learn as children. It's just
they take a different flow. They sort of start a
little slower and then take off where children take off
and then kind of slow down once we start getting
them into the complexities of the grammar and stuff, which
is very fun for some of us but very scary

(35:24):
and challenging for others. Yeah, no, it truly is. And
I think that's you know, in a lot of communities,
not just ours, we often forget the adults. Um, we
think about the elders and getting information from them, and
then we think about the kids. And I've even heard say, well,
the kids are the future of the language. Well, yes
they are. But what happens if we concentrate all of

(35:46):
our energy and the children, we lose those elders that
we have, and then we've lost that opportunity to bring
adults up to speed to fill in the gap. Yeah,
and and the kids need people to talk to rite
when they go home so that they can just realize,
like it's a whole thing. The language is a whole thing,
and the language is a living thing. It's a changing thing.

(36:07):
It's a you know, we're going to have to modernize
our languages, which is can be a real challenge because
some some folks the gang if you start sort of
changing the language, but the ways that you probably want
to change is to be able to talk about things
that the language has been excluded from. Sciences and art, history,

(36:28):
a whole bunch of stuff. Right Yeah. So um along
with those projects, we also well, during the pandemic, we
switched to online classes. And we didn't really want to
start classes that soon, but because of what had happened
with COVID, we switched to online very quickly. So we

(36:49):
have an elder who's nineties six years old, who lives
in Albuquerque, her daughters, her caregiver, and she since she
Une of she has been on Zoom with us eight
to ten hours a week. So she and I are
kind of like the dream team. Uh. So I'm able

(37:12):
to facilitate do language planning, uh and just allow her
to focus on the language and facilitate for her. Um.
So you've seen like real acquisition happening even over Zoom.
So when I turn off the prompts, people have been
able to have a whole conversation for the first time
in like forty fifty years. So I can't wait until

(37:34):
this fall will probably start some in person classes. Continue
the zoom classes UM and truly see it take off,
especially for adults. UM. Continue some family language classes at
the academy where the even I'm like, the kids are
going to be the teachers, bring their families and let them,
you know, be the ones to teach them the games.

(37:56):
How we you know in game learning, I cannot stress
it enough, make it fun, make it practical, and uh
internalized the language right away as you do it, no translations,
just doing it and h that that's going to be
super exciting. UM. And then lastly, uh, there are so

(38:18):
many other things we're doing. Uh. The most important that
I can think of is that the audio the what's
the word I'm looking for software that we use for
the dubbing. It's called voice que and that uh it's
just like karaoke. So it was a software that was

(38:42):
developed in Um. Is it atarahea? Is that how I
would say it? For New Zealand? Uh? Thank you? And um,
so it was actually developed for Mari and so they
used it for dubbing shows. Uh. It's kind of become
the industry standard now for all dubbing and kind of

(39:04):
lost its indigenous roots. UM. And so that's what we
used to do pray and so it's literally it looks
like just like karaoke how you would see it on
the screen, because in the past you had to like
put it, put in stuff and actually do the timing,
or if you didn't have any timing at all, just
kind of put it up there and hope it matches

(39:25):
and you end up with like Guajira uh stuff like
Godzilla movies where it doesn't match up at all. So
with this you can physically make the text bigger, smaller
for timing. It has a little line that will go
across the words, just like in karaoke. Um So, we
were able to write out the commanche record the guide checks,

(39:48):
the actors would practice, then we would play the guide track,
or if one of us was on zoom with the
actors when we were doing the dubbing, we might say
it for them give feedback. Um. But by having that
little uh stream of text, it takes care of most
of the issue um so, and they are willing to

(40:10):
reach out to people and so like for instance, they
would be willing to give us a license and then
that way, knowing what I know from dubbing Prey and
the only thing you really truly have to match up
is labials. Okay. The reason, the reason being you see
them right, yeah, right, because the lips are touching. Um.

(40:31):
As long as that is lined up really well, you
have a lot of wiggle room. It's amazing. So we'll
be able to dub whatever we we want. Yeah, let's
start dubbing all the films in our languages. I would
love to do that. We've already done several re enactments
of scenes from pulp fiction Cheech and chong up and

(40:52):
smoke and a whole bunch of other things, and so
it would be wonderful. And as I look at Hawaiian
and Maudi and uh Navajo and the amazing things that
they're doing. We have so many Star Wars fans who
are learning sing it that we would just love an
opportunity to do all. I don't know what we do
with the grammar of Yoda. Everybody always asked me, like,

(41:14):
because Yoda's like grammar like clink, Like no, it's not,
it's not like it. It actually is like Comanche. Okay, okay,
we're ready. Let's bring on commanche Yoda coming baby Yoda.
Like who wouldn't love so that the pop culture thing, right,
I can't stress it enough. If we do things that
people can immediately talk about and use, they're going to

(41:37):
use it. Um So anything that we can do with
pop culture, which is why I love the fact that
Prey is in Comanche. But also it was funny because
I did a series of like little pop culture means,
and one of the first ones I did was Arnold
Schwarzenegger from the first Predator movie saying get to the chopper, Chopper,

(41:58):
but he's saying it in commanche at one. My friends
did the voice and it's like ya and uh. And
then we just happened to have a Predator movie and
come and see what. Oh fabulous, that's wonderful. Well, as
we start to wrap up our conversation that I want
to say to you, I admire you. I admire your work.

(42:24):
I think a lot of this work also involves facing
and overcoming and dealing with lateral violence and attacks from
our own people and communities, and I think you've handled
that very well in the times that I've seen that happen,
and I hope that that does not happen to you anymore,
and that it's just we focus on the speaking and

(42:46):
the building back the nations, and the creating opportunities for
the next generation of speakers, and taking care of people
who are who are hurt. A lot of our people
are hurt, and so I'm really um, I'm just so
happy to see the work that you're doing and the
impact that it has. So I guess if I wanted

(43:06):
to learn commande, where would I go? How would I start? Sure,
we have a website at top commanche dot org. Uh,
there's some interactive lessons. We have some e books that
I'm going to be adding soon to that. Uh. You
can also find us on Facebook and Instagram, so we
do have videos and a YouTube channel. Just type in

(43:28):
Commanche Nation Language Department. UH. And then finally this fall,
we will be releasing uh some of the seven thousand
we're working with seven thousand languages, so we'll be releasing
some lessons in transparent language online, which you will also
be able to find at top Commanche dot org. It's amazing.

(43:51):
I'm on the board of seven thousand languages, so I'm
really excited that that's happening. And I've heard about it,
and we're going to do a future episode with some
of the folks that are over there, So I'm gonna
cheese playing. Thanks for hanging out and for spending some
time with us. Tell us about your experiences on this
amazing film. Go see it. Uh, check out Comanche language.

(44:15):
Check out everything that Anti Dog Kate is doing, because
you're doing amazing, wonderful stuff. You told me that name
comes from the school, so I figured out would use them.
Those kiddos all call me Anti Doc and I love
it so much, like my heart wonderful. So thank thank
you so much for having me da um and I.

(44:37):
You know, I look forward to your future shows because
this is so important going to cheege once. I've thought
about a million birds all around the world, sharing their songs,
thinking about the ways they have lived when they're gonna live,

(44:58):
And this is the way away to see China. Mm,

(45:21):
I'm gonna choose your way to cut you on Kaka
at Joey Clift in City. Welcome everyone. I'm so excited
to have Joey Clift here with us and to talk
about the film Prey and to talk about Indigenous storytelling

(45:43):
and the future and the past and the present, all
these exciting things that are going on. So I will
ask Joey to introduce himself. Yeah, Hey, everybody, my name
is Jerry Clift. I'm a comedian, TV writer and Rold
Kalets Indian tribal member, and I'm so happy to be
on this podcast. Thanks for having me excited to talk
about all things Prey and just I guess Native Hollywood stuff.

(46:04):
It's gonna be a fun combo. I'm sure so exciting.
I first heard you on The Daily zeit Geist, and
then I was really excited to hear a Native American
guest on their started following on Twitter, started seeing your work,
seeing what you were doing, and it's really exciting to
see the things that you're involved in, your comedy, you're writing,

(46:24):
your advocacy for for animation writers, and so let's just
jump into this film. Uh pray. I guess I would
start with your initial thoughts reactions. Why should people see
this because some people might not even know about it. Okay,
first off, always good to meet a member of the
zeit Gang, So thank you very much. Um and uh,

(46:47):
other than that, yeah, praise, it's just um it's uh
the latest installment of the Predator franchise, which features you know,
the Predator alien creatures from the Predator franchise. Uh. In
this eventeen hundreds hunting members of the Commanche nation in
a Commanche territory. Uh. And it's truly an incredible movie

(47:09):
for a million reasons. I cannot give enough glowing enough review.
As a Predator film, Uh, it's a really back to
basics look at storytelling. It's a very focused story about um,
the main character played by Amber mid Thunder, and her
quest to really do her right of passage in her tribe,
and um, you know, all the things that you run

(47:30):
into in the way of doing your right of passage,
which the right of passage that she's chosen is murdering
a predator alien, which is you know, it's probably a
tougher one she could have chosen, like a badger or something,
but now she went just straight from the top. And um,
you know. So as a Predator movie, it's a very
focused movie on this story. It's you know, the um

(47:51):
in terms of just storytelling, the set up and payoff
of everything that happens in this movie. As to explain
to us how, you know, a character like you know,
Amber mid Thunder's character would eventually kill a you know,
seven and a half foot tall Predator creature is just amazing,
and it's just it's just very well done filmmaking. It's
very well directed. Um. I was actually invited to the

(48:11):
Hollywood premiere of this movie. It's exclusively on Hulu. UM,
but I was invited to the Hollywood premiere a few
weeks ago to watch it, you know, a packed theater
full and Native folks, and um, you know, it's just
it's just such a great theatrical experience. Like the cinematography
is great, the score is great. Um, the you know,
the sound design is great. And then you know that's

(48:31):
just even the movie side of it is that it's
it's such a good movie that, um, you know, the
Predator franchise has been around since the eighties, and um,
a lot of the conversations people are having around it
is like this is the best Predator movie since the
first Predator starring Arnold Schwarzenegger, but like it also might
just be the best Predator movie like period, and like
I would agree with that. I guess, what was your

(48:53):
feelings of just as a movie? How did you like it? Yeah,
that that's what I would think. So I think going
back to Predator, that's certainly one from the days of
my youth, going back to uh, you know, mid nineteen eighties,
and The Predator comes out, and then I think in
The Predator there's like a Native American character like Billy,

(49:15):
and I was excited by that right to say, hey,
look there's like a Native American character. And you know,
he didn't have anything I think about him in that
film that I remember as being problematic. Sometimes Native American
characters high that we're trying to cross. It is just
he didn't. He didn't make my skin immediately cross, like

(49:38):
nothing like I saw that was really horrible. But then
you know he's, uh, he doesn't make it right. Yeah,
So I don't want to spoil the original Predator, but
he didn't make it. And so, but then to have
something where the whole thing is about the Native American
you know, experience, just in terms of not being a

(49:59):
back up to a film, but being the film, and
then to have a number of I thought there was
some really well done moments in this film where they
set up a lot of things for the main character,
their character arc and also preparing them for the conflict.
And there were times where it felt like she was

(50:21):
being almost like the the predator of the monster is
waiting for her to be ready for this sort of challenge,
which seems to be sort of a kind of a hallmark,
I guess for some of the Predator films as it's
looking for kind of a challenge, that's what it feels like.
It's trying to like go find someone who can who

(50:42):
can be the apex predator that they are. And then
so it's it's sort of like this battle arena sort
of mode of storytelling. And I think what was really
working for me here was that she was trying to
overcome some of the things, like just some interesting sort
of pushbacks of being a female hunter. And so to

(51:06):
see that, uh, what ends up being victorious in this
film is Native American female energy, and I was all
about that to see like she would be the one
that steps up and then she there's a number of
different moments that I really liked that you know, she's
preparing and she's doing some stuff that ends up benefiting

(51:28):
her in the end and allowing her to ultimately be triumphant.
In case, you know, there's no spoilers because we know
what kind of film this is. And um, as soon
as I saw a meme going through Twitter, which said
I think it was fry Bred Predator Tactics, and I thought, yes,
I need to see this movie. And so for me

(51:51):
at the payoff was wonderful because it came out and
then we immediately we were on our way to a
thing at language immersion event where we didn't have internet,
and we're also so tired at the end of the
day spending our days in the language that I actually
I got to sit and wait anxiously to see it,
and it paid off in every way that I hoped

(52:12):
it would, including a dumped version in Comanche, which is incredible. Yeah,
this movie, um yeah, A couple of things that I
also saw the same Yeah it's a Predator Comanche, Predator
Meet Indian Tacos meme and like seeing that, I'm I'm
going to Santa Fe Indian Market next week and I'm
really excited about it. And if I can't, if I can,

(52:35):
if there's nobody at Santa Fe Indian Market that's selling
Predator Meet Indian tacos for like fifty bucks each and
just a little green food coloring on them so it
looks like predator blood, then we messed up because that's
like what a one the thing that I would spend
fifty dollars on that kind of Indian taco. Yeah, there
is some kind of hatch chili glow in the dark

(52:57):
sauce that just needs to be made. This it's just
the predator sauce You're canna be putting on everything now, Yeah,
And it's just what a like, what a good like
I would I would buy that at a markup at
like any Native event, you know. And um, and you know,
like you mentioned there's a Comanche dub of this movie,
and like you know, this is also this is the
first ever major motion picture in the history of Hollywood

(53:19):
to star a Native woman like Emermd Thunder who just
kills it in this amazing role. Um. It's also you know,
the first major motion picture on how they would have
like a largely native cast. Like uh, you know, there's
there's just so much going on and so much to
love about, like just you know, like how native this
movie is from an authentic place and a lot of
that is definitely to think. Um, you know Jane Meyers

(53:40):
who's a producer on the film, um, who is a
member of the Comanche nation, who just made clearly made
sure that like all the indigenous stuff was really spot on,
and then her being like a high level producer that
was brought on it early on. She also made sure
that you know, there's like Native folks in pretty much
every department on the movie. They went so far as
um even having um like intern spots available for uh,

(54:02):
you know, younger Native folks that want to kind of
like work in films and learn how these different departments work.
So like it really feels like a movie that you know,
like it was directed by directed by Dan Tracktonburg and
then written by Dent back Track and Burg and another
writer who are you know, both non native people, but
it feels like they know the story was written by
non natives and directed by a non native. It feels

(54:23):
like they really worked to make the representative representation right
and really empowered you know, Jane Meyers the right people
to be able to do that in a real way.
So it's just like, you know, like as a movie,
this is tenda a ten stars Native representation wise, this
is tend out of ten stars. It's just like it's amazing.
It's like it's a movie everybody should watch, you know, yeah, absolutely,

(54:43):
And so it's on Hulu. You need to go see it.
You need to check it out. It's called Pray p
R E Y. And And for me, I think like
I've always really been interested in film. Uh you and
I have both written for television and you know, and
so my bank up as always like thinking about film
in terms of a writer, in terms of a storyteller,

(55:04):
and also just in terms of witnessing something that I've
always been around, which is film and television. And for
a long time, Native Americans could only be the background, right,
just the background characters, just the background, even films that
were pretty monumental I think in terms of Native American

(55:25):
film like Little Big Man and Dances with Wolves and
a more recent one like Wind River, Like I think
when you initially see it, it's it's fabulous because you
get to be in this world that is familiar, even
if you know I'm saying it, I'm hedamu bis and
so it's not always completely familiar, but it it is.

(55:46):
It's there, it's it's parallel to the universe that that
I know. And so to see that and to have
these films that historically, like I would just think this
is so wonderful and amazing and a lot of ways.
They were these earlier films that broke some ground. But
then what was the common narrative for me was there's

(56:06):
two there's white people who fall in love and the
backdrop of Native Americans, and they get to survive. They're
the ones who survive, and you don't know how. You know,
the other ones probably aren't, or you know, hinted pretty
strongly they might not. And so to have this to say,
like the main arc, the character arc is this Native
American woman who's powerful, who's courageous, who does things, who

(56:31):
takes initiative and doesn't need to be saved. Like, there's
so many things to love about those qualities of the film.
And I think you're absolutely right where they nailed it
in terms of representation and having a film to say
this is a predator film and it's a Native American film,
and to to sort of move out of the classics

(56:52):
sort of a cowboys sort of Indian kind of trope
that that's out there quite a bit, which I think
The Fast Runner did quite a bit to push things
forward in terms of saying, well, you could have stories
that are about Native American people and not just taking
place where Native American people are around there. Yeah, like

(57:13):
this is the like pray. It's not trauma porn. It's
not like a white savior story. It's just like a
badass Native woman kicking ass and beating up a predator,
you know. And it's like and and it's also like
I guess that for me, what was so cool about
this movie? And like I think that why that that

(57:34):
meme the Comanche predator meet Indian tacos? You know, it's
funny but also like struck me on. I think, like
a really emotional level of like like now, like if
you're a Native kid, you can watch that movie and think, oh,
I could beat up the predator. Like you know, it's
just there's such a there's such a level of pride
of like if I was a member of the Comanche Nation,

(57:56):
I would be talking about how like I would be
having a predator severed beatd Bolo time made right now
Like I'm not, I'm I'm calids, We're you know, Pacific Northwest,
and I still might do that, Like you know, it's
just it's just so cool. It's just like to see
a film, you know, like a sci fi action horror

(58:16):
movie where like Native people get to be the heroes
who survive at the end is just like, you know,
it's like it's like cool as a movie, but it's
also like that's just something I've very rarely, if ever
seen in movies before in my you know, decades of
life being obsessed with movies, you know. Yeah, and and

(58:38):
so let's there's let's talk about these um backdrop characters.
Then again, so like I'm I'm watching the film, I'm
taking it in. I'm just loving the stamps that it's
taking in terms of the set up and getting us
there and you know, dropping hands that here comes the predator.

(58:59):
But then there's a part where, uh, the dog gets
stuck in a trap. And then as soon as I
saw the trap, I thought, oh, bet to, the white
people are gonna screw everything up at some point. And
and then we get a scene which I think would
hit for people who understand Native American history and who

(59:20):
probably are Native American. I think would hit differently to
see this field of buffalo and and just to say, Okay,
I know who did that, and I know what we're
looking at here in terms of destruction and mayhem, and uh,
just the amount of um horror that came upon Native
American people from contact. Yeah, and like that that was

(59:44):
also something that I think going into the movie, I
was curious how, you know, like if it was going
to deal with colonization before. You know, I don't know,
I don't know a ton about Nancy history specifically, so
I don't necessarily know when their contact happened. But I
think that actually was. The movie takes place in seventeen nineteen,
and I think contact was like seventeen eighteen or something
like that. So, um, you know this, I wasn't sure

(01:00:07):
if it was going to feature that, and that they
had this, um you know, uh, this camp of French trappers. Um,
you know, I was a little bit worried of like, oh,
is this movie going to like really be about them,
and like the Native people are really more fighting them
than the colonizers. And then you know, very quickly the
French trappers just become cannon fodder for Amber, mid Thunder

(01:00:28):
and the Predator and it's just like hell, yeah, that's rules.
Like and you know, like like I said, I saw
this at the premiere, Um, I saw this. You know,
in the first time I saw this was in a
room full of Native people, and you know, the there's
there's an amazing scene where um Aer mid Thunder's character
and da Code Beaver's character are you know, tied to
a tree. Dwa Code Beaver's character you know, was slashed

(01:00:49):
on his chest, similar to how Billy's character was slashed
on the Predator in the first Predator movie to kind
of act as bait for the predator. Um, you know,
in the original Predator movie, the Billy character made his
own choice to do that with Machette. In this movie,
the French trappers did it to Dakoda Beaver's character to
make him bait for the predator. And um, you know,
like while they're tied to the tree, the Predator just

(01:01:09):
goes through massacres all these French traders and uh, you
know what a crowd pleasing moment for all the native
people in the room. We all, you know, we were
immediately like a predator, you're an uncle like And then
you know that's immediately followed by a scene where they
get free. And then emmermid Thunder's character just like murders
a bunch of French trappers on her own to show
that she's you know, of equal power to the predator

(01:01:31):
at this point, and once again. Evermid thunder massacreing a
bunch of French trappers, once again, what a crowd pleasing moment.
Just cheers around, practically a standing ovation from a room
full of Native people watching that rat a scene. Yeah,
and so from a perspective of being an advocate for
ending missing and murdered Indigenous women. And then she gets

(01:01:53):
you know, captured. Uh. There was a point I was
watching it with a friend of mine as him as
Scheff out Each and we're talking through the There's just
two of us, and so it was a Native American
screening in our living room. And as we're talking about it,
I said, Okay, if all these white people get killed

(01:02:14):
because they did this to the buffalo and they captured
this woman, they were being very mean and nasty, I said,
this might be the greatest film I've ever seen that happens.
And so there was a several moments in the film
where I thought, Okay, if this thing, this is what
I hope happens, And those things happened, which I think
is a neat balance when you're doing, when you're writing,

(01:02:36):
when you're making a film, because to make something that
does what folks might hope it does but not in
a way that's predictable, you know, it is It's a
delicate balance, and I was really happy with the way
everything played out in terms of what's going to come
back into uh maybe the final you know, the battle

(01:02:57):
scene near the end, and then also like how it's
going to come into play and how she was going
to study and realize because one of the things that
she had to do and that she was talking about
through most of the film was, as you said, like
going through and getting her first successful major hunt, which

(01:03:17):
was going to be the Predator. And so as she
sort of she there was an early scene where she
tried to get this bunny rabbit and she couldn't get
the rabbit, you know. But then as she's continually looking
and studying what she needs to do to get better,
like watching all these French travelers get uh killed by

(01:03:39):
the Predator helped her because she could watch them and
she came up with ideas on what she needed to
do to win. And I think that that's something I
really appreciated about Amberment. Thunder's character in this film is
you're really you're one. She's character that's playing everything to
the top of her intelligence. Um she's just like a
very strong, capable, resourceful native woman, and like everything that

(01:04:01):
she does to beat the predator, you know, at the
end of the movie is all set up earlier in
the movie, you know, from the point of like, you know,
her using the orange petaled flower to um give first
aid to her brother's friend who got mobbed by the cougar.
And then when she does it, like he you know,
has a bad reaction to it, and she just says, like, Oh,
don't worry, it's just cooling your blood. And then at

(01:04:23):
the end of the movie she uses that when she realizes, oh,
this thing can see thermal vision. If I eat this flower,
I'll be invisible to it. You know, see her realizing, um,
you know, the three dots on the predators helmet are
basically what the wrist spears from the predator used to track.
So wherever that's pointing is where the spears are going
to eventually home in and end up at. Um, you know,

(01:04:44):
like realizing the predators primarily in the trees, so if
you put spikes on the trees, that's gonna mess the
predator up. You know. Even when she almost drowns in
that mud pool, like she like realizes like, oh, there's
a mud pool here that like would trap the predator
if it's stepped into it, And like it was just
so cool and so like satisfying as a viewer to
see this character, like I said, play everything just at

(01:05:05):
the top of her intelligence, and everything that she does
to be the predator at the end is like something
that she like earns and learns over the course of
the movie. Yeah, And we had a fabulous time watching
it because we had just come out of this five
day language immersion ourselves and then we get to watch this,
and we was flipping back and forth between the English

(01:05:25):
version and the Comanche version just because we're so so
in awe that that can happen, and we're so excited
about the potential of having films that are in thing
it and that are in additional Native American languages and
to say, like, this can absolutely work. And so one
of the things that I really liked was when she

(01:05:46):
kicked his his helmet off that and we're calling it
the chateauku, which would be a pretty good word for
a helmet, and so we were sort of yelling at
the movie and fling it as they're talking in Comanche
and as the Predator is making you know that it
has a language itself, and then the French like they

(01:06:07):
didn't translate the French, and and so there's some really
neat multi lingual moments that we're going on in the
film that I really did enjoy. And as we sort
of look and look at we're gonna have some conversations
with Comanche language teachers and speakers and consultants on the film.
But I was just so impressed at the way they
integrated culture and language and and to make it uh

(01:06:31):
this experience that feels authentic, and that was a Predator film, right,
And so it follows the same arc of of what
a Predator film would where you know they're going to
encounter people, they're gonna wipe a bunch of people out.
One person will emerge as the one who takes on
and and defeats the Predator. And when she defeated it,

(01:06:52):
it was absolutely so satisfied. These wonderful moments where she's
just dominating everybody and everything, and it was just so
wonderful to see when and specifically the end of the
movie when she finally takes out the predator. Um there
is a moment that like, like what I appreciate about
One of the things I appreciate this movie is that, like, um,

(01:07:15):
there are references to the previous Predator movies, but for
the vast majority of them, they're done to service the
story and characters and not just thrown in as like
an easter egg. So you know, the the energy that um,
if it bleeds, we can kill it is said in
the first Predator movie is just kind of Arnold Schwarzenegger
saying like nine bravado, right, Whereas in this it's like

(01:07:39):
this really like intense and personal moment between assist between
a brother trying to convince her sister that if they
work together, they can kill this thing. And you know,
it's just like the just the emotion of Dakota Beaver's
delivery of that line, which Dacoda Beavers, this is his
first ever acting role, by the way, is just like
something that I found myself like replaying in my mind
for days after seeing it. It's just like a really

(01:08:01):
great line delivery that like breathes new life into what
was just kind of a throwaway eighties action line. Um.
There are a lot of other you know, really cool
um you know nods to the previous movies like UM.
The in the First Predator movie, it's UM Arnold Schwartzenegger
basically leading an invading force to take over this country,

(01:08:22):
but he's not from Um, whereas in Prey it's the
indigenous people of this country directly protecting their homeland from
these invaders. So like it kind of inverses the relationships
of the main characters and the you know, kind of
the stock villains UM, even to the point that like
the first shot that you see Arnold Schwartzenegger and predators

(01:08:43):
him smoking a cigar, and then in Pray when emmermnt
Thunder's character comes across the buffalo, she sees burned out
cigar next to the buffaloes, and then she then sees
the French fur trappers smoking cigars. So it's like those
kinds of things of like, oh, this is like an
inverse or a book end of the First Predator in
a way that doesn't feel forced. It feels very earned
with the situation and like Um, you were talking about

(01:09:04):
the end of the movie, how everything was really satisfying,
there's UM. The end of the end of the First
Predator movie, there's that classic moment where the where Arnold
Schwartz nigger is trying to lure the predator into the trap,
and he's saying like, come on, dol it kill me
or whatever, and then that was my A plus our
own sports nigger imprisonation. And then at the end of
Prey Amber mid Thunder is trying to convince the predator

(01:09:27):
to walk into her trap, and she's saying, you know,
essentially a similar thing, which is like come on, come
on on forward, but like what she's saying is in
specific reference to what she heard earlier in the movie
about what you're doing. When you're uh doing, you write
a passage, which is saying to the beast, essentially you
will step here and then step no further, like, and

(01:09:48):
then she does that and then lures it into the thing,
which causes it to like shoot itself in the head
with a spear, like you know, and it's like, oh,
it's like it's the same. It's like kind of it
echoes back to what Arld Schwarzenegger did in the first
Predator Will also creating this amazing character moment where she's
like truly reaching her write a passage while referencing you know,
what she learned that will happen when she is about

(01:10:11):
to reach her write a passage, you know, absolutely, and
and it was so so great to see and to
have these moments. You're absolutely right with how it inverts
a lot of things that I think we're satisfying for
Native American audiences and probably for a lot of folks.
And so if I I'll probably watch The Predator again,
and then I think Pray is going to be the

(01:10:34):
top film for me. I just think it's so exciting
to see this. It's so it's so inspiring to think
of the past, present, and future of Native Americans and film.
And this is a podcast about Native American language revitalization,
and language is featured in here, but there are also

(01:10:55):
all these related subjects like representation, and you know, when
Molly of Denally came out, I was able to show
it to my children and just to think about them
having representation in their lives in media, and it was
such a wonderful moment. And then to also have a

(01:11:16):
series of just to see more and more shows and films,
whether it's Rutherford Falls or Reservation Dogs, where the universe
of storytelling from Native American perspectives is continually expanding and
with that, like, I really appreciate you coming here to
talk about Prey and so we can encourage folks to

(01:11:37):
watch it. But I also I wanted to talk a
little bit about your work and what kinds of things
you've been doing, because those there are some exciting things
that are coming. Yeah well, yeah, thank you, And I
am just a one more point I wanted to make
about Prey, which I will I think be a natural
good lead in into kind of more talking about the
expanding of Native storytelling. Is um you were talking about

(01:11:58):
specifically like language revitalization and like how Pray has a
Comanche dub something that I think that like Native folks
working in entertainment industry and track and probably Nati folks
who don't work in the entrant industry contract but like
non natives might not get. Is like the amount of
like work that went into making sure that, like the

(01:12:19):
Native representation in Pray was like great. Like, Um, Jane Meyers,
the commanchie, remember the Cananchi tribe who is a protucer
on the film, Um, she talks about in interviews, how
like you know, like our languages oftentimes aren't written down,
so like if she wanted to get like the translation
on a word for the Comanche dub pray. She had

(01:12:39):
to like talk to her grandparents and tribal elders to
get those words, you know. Um, I mean it's to
the point that, um, there's a scene in the movie
in Pray where um, a Comanchee woman is carrying a
baby on a cradle board in the Comanche village and
Jane Meyers like made that with her own hands to
make sure it was like accurate. And you know, I'm

(01:13:00):
sure that that's something that you probably experienced with, you know,
writing on shows like Molly of Donali, where it's like
two for a lot of this information, Like you can't
just like crack open a book and like read you know,
how to say words in Comanche and uh, you know
in phonetic English, or you know, like how to get like,
you know, the exact specifics of a really good Molly
Donali story. Oftentimes we have to like reach into our

(01:13:22):
communities in a way that like it's just a very
like native way to do things. And I think it's
really it's really cool to see Hollywood kind of um
understand and start to move at this and understand that
they kind of have to move at the speed and
pace of Indian country to get this stuff downe in
like an authentic way, I guess if you experienced that

(01:13:42):
with shows like Molly Yeah Again and and so there's
there's often a dialogue that goes on as well about
being a PBS show UH and being a both a
cultural consultant and an advisor or and a writer. For
Molly of Denali sometimes they use his conversation is about
what is relatable to the everybody and then what is

(01:14:06):
you know, specific that makes it authentic to being not
just Native American but being of a place. And so
in the case of prey like it, it must be
commanche like it must be. You can't just rely on
these There's so many pitfalls of stereotypes and other things
that exist in media because most historical representations are gross

(01:14:30):
and are just terrible. Like you know, I just think
of the Bugs Bunny films and where the shows and
and what kinds of Native American characters were there, and
and on and on and on and and so to
have this shifting towards authentic voices I think is really important.
And to have UH in the English version, you have

(01:14:52):
a lot of Comanche words that are in there in
some moments that aren't even fully translated for the audience,
which I think is wonderful. And then to have a
whole dumped version is just, uh, it's absolutely incredible. And
then to see like the even with Molly of Denaliot,

(01:15:13):
it started off with a lot of Indigenous advisers and
white writers, and then it has it's been transitioning to
more and more Native writers who are getting into the
room and who are telling some of the stories. And
we have a good working group involved that sometimes when
we have a story idea and we're sort of in
the rooms talking about it, uh, they'll they're very receptive

(01:15:37):
if one of us says, Okay, this has to be
a Native person who tells the story. It's getting a
little bit too too close to home in terms of
the things that we have gone through with the suffering
that has come from Native American attempted genocide in America
and just other things like that. And but there's other
times too where it can become a collaboration and it's

(01:15:58):
just such an exciting time to be doing this kind
of work. Yeah, And I think that like what I've
noticed in my career is I feel like over the
past few years, non natives in the entertainment industry has
started to like listen when Native people say stuff like that,
Like when we say like, um, you know, we have
specific needs for writing something or you know, in casting

(01:16:20):
the actors for something. I feel like Hollywood for a
long time just didn't take the advice because they were
like that's hard or like we don't know how to
do it. But now like I feel like Native people
are being like listened to in real ways and like
the advice is being like people take the note, and like,
you know, that's That's something that I've definitely noticed in

(01:16:41):
my career in that I moved to Los Angeles after
graduating college to be you know, comedian TV writer, and um,
you know, like I've worked on a lot of stuff.
I've written on a lot of different projects. I wrote
on a launch of Looney Tunes, and I've done a
lot of you know, digital stuff with websites like nuriced
and to um uh like you know, funnier die in

(01:17:03):
different places, and um, you know, I think that for me,
Like I feel like whenever I would pitch Native stories
up until fairly recently, like that story would never get
picked because it was just like the person that I'm
pitching it too is not Native, and it's probably never
talked to a Native person aside from me ever in
their life. You know, you know that they know of

(01:17:23):
and like now I'm feeling like, you know, Hollywood is
understanding the value of Native stories and also they understand
that they have to tell those stories with us, you know.
So like, um, I'm currently a writer consulting producer on
a show called Spirit Rangers that's coming out on Netflix
in the next couple of months, and um, that's the
first ever kids TV series and the history of US

(01:17:45):
animation created by a Native person, the genius um STV
writer Chris Llencia, with an all native writer's room, native
actors playing Native characters, and um, you know, it's been
just such a great experience because like every I've been
writing on the show for about two years, and you know,
every morning I jump onto zoom with other Native people
and we can really hash out, like the the nuance

(01:18:06):
of what we're trying to say with these stories and
these characters. And you know, in addition to that, like
I mentioned, um, you know, Jane Meyer is doing a
lot of work specifically with her tribe to like you know,
get you know, the pronunciations of different words and stuff
like that. Like with um our tribe, it's it's about
a native family that we we decided to make them
a mixed tribe family. The mom is shue mash and

(01:18:28):
the dad cowl. It's which is my tribe, and um,
we received the blessings of our tribes to do that.
Like I pitched to my tribes tribal council, I pitched
to our culture board and um, you know politely asked
and they voted on it, and you had questions and
you know, so we've really been working hand in hand
with our tribes to make sure that you know, like

(01:18:48):
if we use you know, shuemash or cow let's words
in the show that like we have you know, voiceover
recordings from elders um giving us those pronunciations so we
can give those to the actors to make sure that
that's accurate. Like and you know, it's been really cool
to know that we're you know, doing our best to
do it the right way because I feel like, you know,

(01:19:08):
for for me, like with a show like that where
like the family is you know, half cow it's and
even just being you know, the first ever kids show
created by native person of Noll Native Writer's Room. I'm
like fully aware of that I need to do right
by my people, you know, and by my people, I
don't just mean cow, it's people, I mean just like
Native people who have probably not seen a ton of

(01:19:31):
Native kids shows other than Molly of Denali, you know. Um.
And you know, it does feel like, uh, I like,
I feel like people call this um, you know, a
moment in Native storytelling, which like I don't like because
like it's ideally going to be longer than a moment,
you know, ideally this is but I think I like,
I think that I'm gonna from now on use how

(01:19:52):
you you described it, which is like this is um
an expansion of Native storytelling in the mainstream media, you know,
and it is really cool to be you know, as
I'm sure you relate, like, you know, a small part
of that expansion and somebody who's able to see and
tell these stories from the inside. Yeah. Absolutely, And and
it's it's so exciting because it's it's a growing movement

(01:20:16):
with more and more content and more and more areas
and so there's there's comedy, there's drama, that now there's
you know, sci fi and horror type of and so
and and this. These aren't the first, and these these
won't be the last as as we go forward and
see more content and more writers. It's so exciting. Just
the other day, uh, a native writer reached out to

(01:20:38):
me and was and to a friend of mine, Frank
Catas is a brilliant playwright, and she was looking it was,
you know, we're having this conversation about some trash talk
for playing basketball, and so native basketball trash talk that
we're hoping we'll go into a show. And so the
conversation started with we've got some trash talk in here,

(01:21:01):
but it feels pretty flat. And then it just turned
into the three of us just trash talking on each
other and which was so fun and to think of
how this could go in because sometimes as well, like
we can, there's a lot of leeway in terms of
how we sometimes make fun of each other and sometimes
our own identities, which can get a little sensitive in

(01:21:21):
terms of like do we want to show everything? Oh yeah, yeah,
for sure. Yeah. Those are conversations that are like maybe
this is just just a thing to say for my
native group chats like yep, and so. But it's fun
to find where those boundaries are and to keep pushing
them and to keep seeing more things happening because the
doors are opening all over the place. And I'm thankful

(01:21:42):
for you for your work, for your advocacy and also
if for your advocacy for animation writers and making sure
that there's some equity there in terms of what people
are getting in these industries. And I appreciate you stop
and buy and spending some time with us on the
tongue Unbroken. Where can people find you? Follow you all

(01:22:02):
that good stuff? Oh yeah, for sure, thanks for having me.
This was this was super fun. Um. I you can
find me on Twitter at joe Attainment. You can find
me on Instagram at Joey Cliff with like five or
six eyes. The reason for that it's a twelve year
old took Joey clipped with one eye and I just
had to deal and um things to promote. Um. Like
I said, you can check out Spear Rangers when it

(01:22:23):
drops on Netflix later this year. It's a show. I'm
really proud of it and excited about. And then uh yeah,
check out Molly of Denali, which both of us wrote
on and uh, you know, and watch Prey. Follow every
every Native person who worked on Prey, Ambermid Ambermid Thunder,
Dakota Beavers, Jane Meyers, the whole cast. Uh follow them
on Twitter. I didn't work on Prey. I just think

(01:22:44):
that everybody should follow them because they're great and I
can't wait to see what they do in their careers.
Um and then uh also uh yeah, I don't know,
just like, watch all these cool native projects, Reservation Dogs,
both food follows. There's a ton of great stuff happening
right now in Native storytelling, and it's just so exciting
to not just be a part of it, but just
to like be able to watch it. Yep, fabulous. Welcome

(01:23:07):
to Cheese, Joey, and best of luck with everything. Absolutely
check out all that content. Go see Pray if you
haven't seen it already, get your butt in the chair
and check it out. And check out Spirit Rangers, which
will be coming out on Netflix and will talk to
you soon. Thanks for coming. Yeah, away to a block,

(01:23:31):
what way Predator, Glee Cook Gonna cheese if you enough,
kt Dr Keith Briner Gonna cheese, Joey Clift Gonna cheese
to cut John and do Sawai Prey Dot g ANDN.
This has been the Tongue Unbroken. Gonna Cheese for listening,

(01:23:53):
Gonna Cheese to our guests. Let's have some Predator meat tacos.
Let's enjoy ourselves. Please check out other podcasts on the
I Heart Media. Next up, Initiative Partition is coming out. Partition,
Go Google it, listen to it. Also check out Beauty

(01:24:14):
Translated Black Fat Fem. This has been the Tongue Unbroken,
produced by Daniel Goodman, We'll catch you next week and
the Chief