January 9, 2024 • 31 mins
Christian Griggs was from an army family. He served in Iraq - following in the footsteps of his father, Tony Griggs who also proudly served his country. On this episode, we’ll get to know Chrisitan, and his parents, Tony & Dolly Griggs.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hi guys, it's Hillary here. Just a quick note. This
series does deal with a lot of tough subject matter
that may be difficult for some listeners, so please keep
this in mind when and where you choose to listen
to these episodes. It's important to know the different sides
(00:21):
of a person's personality before we get into the details
of what happened and how and when, so that we
can fully understand the experience that they are taking into
the events of October twelfth, twenty thirteen. Christian Griggs was
a bright young man with a bright future and a
(00:42):
great work ethic and high hopes for raising a family
of his own in the way that his parents had
raised him and his sister. And so when we address
what happened on the day he died, it changes how
we view the experience. It changes how we analyze the experience,
It changes how we empathize with the experience, because if
(01:06):
you see a little glimmer of yourself and Christian Griggs,
it makes it really terrifying that it could potentially happen
to you. It could potentially happen here. Last episode, we
introduced you to the quiet country town of Andrew, North Carolina,
and on this episode, we're going to learn who Christian
(01:27):
was and the hopes and dreams that he had for
his life. It was a future that was cut all
too short by the events of October twelfth, twenty thirteen.
I'm Hillary Burton Morgan and this is true crime story.
It Couldn't Happen Here. Welcome back to It Couldn't Happen
(01:52):
Here the podcast where we are discussing the Christian Griggs
story that we covered on our television series. As a
quick recap, it is the case of a twenty three
year old young black man in Andrew, North, Carolina, who
was shot in broad daylight by his father in law.
(02:12):
It is worth noting that his father in law was
a white pastor in the community, and so this is
a really conflicted case because we're dealing with race, religion,
the right to bear arms, and the Castle doctrine, which
becomes an important part of this narrative. It is legislation
that was passed that gives someone the right to use
(02:34):
deadly force to protect their own home. Before we dive
into everything that transpired that day, we need to understand
all the people involved. I want to start with Christian's parents,
Tony and Dolly Greggs. You know, as we were preparing
for this case, we learned that they're a military family.
Christian served, but so did his parents, and it automatically
(02:57):
just puts me in a place of reverence. You know,
I feel this huge response ability to show up for
these people in a respectful way. Do any of you
come from military families?
Speaker 2 (03:07):
No, but my ex husband was Marines.
Speaker 3 (03:09):
Yeah, my father's in the Navy.
Speaker 4 (03:11):
Yeah, I'm a product of the military.
Speaker 1 (03:14):
Your dad was Air Force, Yeah, I'm Armie. You know,
we cover a lot of branches between all of us,
and there's a tone that is different about military families.
You know that they experience a reality that not everyone
has to. There's always the threat of danger, there's the
(03:34):
reality of your family being separated for periods of time.
Speaker 2 (03:38):
Tony, Christian's father was in combat and had his life
on the line.
Speaker 1 (03:44):
We learned that Christian Griggs was in Iraq and returned
home experienced some loss while he was over there. And
for me personally, you know, the behind the scenes talk.
I have a tattoo on my wrist for a very
good child friend of mine that died in Iraq, and
so the idea that your child could survive that environment
(04:06):
and then come home and be killed in your town.
Was something I went into this interview having pretty big
feelings about. I can't imagine the horror show of that.
You know, the dangers over there, it's not here. When
we go to Andrew, North Carolina, Dan, you met with
Tony and Dolly before I ever got there, and what
(04:30):
was your day with them?
Speaker 5 (04:31):
Like?
Speaker 3 (04:32):
They were great. I mean they welcomed us in to
their home and were very accommodating of our crew. They
were definitely cautious, and you know, they were friendly, but
cautious is the initial thing. And we interviewed Tony first
and again he took a little while to warm up,
(04:52):
but once we started talking and getting into the story,
I mean he just opened up and really was able
to talk about his son, talk about their situation, talk
about what happened.
Speaker 1 (05:04):
Let's talk about the visuals of their home because that
tells a story too. When you pull up at their house,
it is meticulous. The hedges are trimmed perfectly, the grass
is perfect.
Speaker 2 (05:17):
That house never needs a pain job. He preemptively paints it.
I mean, it is a shiny, shiny star on the block.
Speaker 4 (05:24):
You know, there's an American flag flying in the front lawn.
There's a sign that tells us it's their home. There's
a small memorial for Christian in the front yard.
Speaker 2 (05:37):
And in the house itself. I mean that shrine which
you go to is so heavy. The shrine to Christian
in the house with the flag and his pictures of
this vibrant.
Speaker 1 (05:50):
Well, that's it. His mother has filled the house with
signs of life. And you walk in and turn to
the left and there is a family room where there's
a fireplace with tons of pictures. They had framed photos everywhere.
And then as you move further back through the house,
there's a specific shrine to Christian.
Speaker 3 (06:10):
They had the folded American flag that was draped over
Christian's coffin.
Speaker 2 (06:14):
They folded into this little triangle and they give it
to the surviving family member. After a funeral of a
military person.
Speaker 4 (06:21):
That's in the show. You see that often in a
box in a lot of houses, and there's always sort
of a pregnant question whose is that it means? You know,
it's somebody who was a US service member who has
perished in one way.
Speaker 3 (06:36):
Or the other.
Speaker 1 (06:37):
Seeing how meticulous everything was immediately informed me that Tony
was a serious man. And what I have noticed about
some of our other interviews is that some of those
subjects can be kind of apologetic or uncomfortable with the
cameras and the variables that we bring into a person's home.
(06:59):
And I think because Tony and Dolly have dealt with
more stressful situations than a camera crew, they were unintimidated.
I never got the sense that they were shy about
what we were bringing into their environment.
Speaker 3 (07:12):
Right, I mean, it is meticulous. It is, you know,
the beautiful home and we're bringing heavy equipment in and
you know, we're always very careful, you know, not to
damage anything. If we want to move a chair, we
need to move some furniture around. But they yeah, again
they were like, sure, move anything you want anyway you
want to clearly proud homeowners.
Speaker 1 (07:32):
You know, let's talk about the way that Tony and
Dolly described their son. We're getting to know Christian through them,
So what did they talk about?
Speaker 2 (07:41):
A shining star, you know, a very loving home clearly
with him and his sister, and how just a leader,
a natural leader, and that this is backed up by
other people that we interviewed. But he's a bright, beautiful
boy who is bound for something, just like his teacher
(08:02):
told you on the phone and told us when she
reached out, he was going places.
Speaker 3 (08:07):
Yeah, I think everybody in that family, I mean, they're
very proud, successful people, and I think Christian and his
sister were definitely on the road to great things. You know,
I think they just grew up in a really supportive family.
Speaker 1 (08:19):
I mean, you see the Little League pictures. Tony was
a coach on his son's team. Christian became like an
all star soccer player. He was in national honor society, academically,
really successful. He seemed to have a really large circle
of friends.
Speaker 2 (08:37):
Yeah, his friends said like he was the most popular guy.
He didn't meet an enemy, He only met friends.
Speaker 6 (08:43):
Christian was a friend to everybody. It didn't matter what
your color was. It didn't matter what your nationality was,
whether you were Hispanic, Black, White, Asian, Muslim, Christian, Jewish,
it didn't matter to Christian. What mattered was the quality
of the heart and the individual and the person. Christian
was loving, caring, youthful, athletic, intelligent, hardworking, curious.
Speaker 7 (09:09):
Christian was the ultimate wing man. What do you mean
by that?
Speaker 6 (09:14):
If you were out to do something you said, hey, Christian,
let's go get let's do it.
Speaker 7 (09:18):
He's like, yeah, I'm with it. I got your back.
You know, he was that kind of guy.
Speaker 2 (09:22):
Everybody liked him.
Speaker 1 (09:23):
Everybody bubbly. He's a muscling, a.
Speaker 2 (09:26):
Mustling, handsome, tall guy who's sporty, but they call him bubbly.
Speaker 3 (09:31):
But his smile. Everybody talked about his smile.
Speaker 8 (09:34):
Smile.
Speaker 2 (09:34):
I mean, he's so handsome, but you can see such
a glow, such a lightness emanating in all his photos.
Speaker 3 (09:41):
His buddies all really spoke so highly of I mean,
everybody loved him, and then they talked about the girls
loved him too.
Speaker 8 (09:48):
You know.
Speaker 3 (09:48):
It's yeah, it's like everybody wanted to be Christian's girlfriend.
We reached out to several of Christian's friends, and you know,
we can only talk to so many people for our episode.
And Nate, you know, he just was really good as
far as talking to us about who Christian was. They
were childhood friends, they grew up together. They were very close.
Speaker 7 (10:09):
So I met.
Speaker 5 (10:10):
Christian probably through athletics, through the rec league athletics and
in school and then in middle school and high school
we played sports together. And what's what's Christian's What was
Christian's best quality smile? Guaranteed, his smile was amazing. It
was it had the power to light to room up.
Speaker 3 (10:33):
And did Christian make friends easily?
Speaker 5 (10:37):
Is he popular guy? Christian was probably one of the
most popular people. Everybody knew Christian Griggs. Everybody enjoyed being
around Christian Griggs. Nobody ever had problems with him or anything.
He was always a fun person to be around. He
was part of every friend group. He was a very
well liked person.
Speaker 3 (10:58):
He knows Christian's parent parents, Dolly and Tony. They've remained
close even after Christian was gone. I mean he still
goes and plays golf with Tony. You know, it's really
nice to see. I think it's good for both of them.
I think Dolly and Tony really like having Nate still
part of their lives. And it's another connection to Christian
that they're able to keep.
Speaker 2 (11:18):
And the thing is that you know, as we learned earlier,
but Dolly and Tony, their house was the hub. Like
Christian was a very gregary, it's very popular, very welcoming guy.
And his friends would congregate. I mean they would hang
out at the Griggs's house. That was like home away
from home spot, so you can imagine how empty it
feels later instead of replacing that with family, there's emptiness
(11:41):
and to have Nate still involved. And I also think
some of his other friends were a bit disappointed, like
we were feeling a little pressure, like maybe we should
interview more than one of his friends because.
Speaker 1 (11:49):
They wanted to talk.
Speaker 2 (11:51):
There's a hole not just for Tony and Dolly and
their family, but for his friends. I mean, it was
clearly an important part of a lot of people's lives.
Speaker 1 (12:13):
It seemed like his parents really prided themselves in being
community members that participated and took care of other people's
children and did the car pools and the sports and
all the extracurricular stuff while maintaining pretty you know, serious careers.
So we know a little bit more about who Christian was.
(12:35):
His parents, Tony and Dolly, Let's talk a little bit
more about Katie. Dolly was clear that her son had
not brought girls home before that she'd maybe heard some
of the friends over at the house talking about how
popular he was. Christy was popular. I'm sure he had
lots of little girlfriends.
Speaker 3 (12:53):
She says. He had a lot of girlfriends, but he
hadn't met ye brought him home.
Speaker 1 (12:58):
So tell me how Tony and Dolly described this girl
that Christian brings home senior year in high school.
Speaker 2 (13:04):
I mean, I remember more of how his friend described
Christian just suddenly being like, oh my God, like it
was a whole different Christian in relation to her. But yeah,
it was the first girl that he brought home seriously
and it was serious, but there wasn't talk about a
continuation of it. And although one is white and one
is black in a southern community, which they're saying, there's
(13:26):
not an outward racism there, but it is obviously different.
Speaker 1 (13:30):
It's different. And you know, I think, speaking of someone
who was a teen in Virginia, you always want to
think that you're hipper than your parents, so you're more
open minded than your parents, and so maybe Katie and
Christian's generation felt that they were outside of any prejudice
that existed for their parents' generation. It's clear that on paper,
(13:54):
Christian and Katie are the cute All American high school.
They're both winners, they both come from really good families,
and so they're both in high school, they're starting to
look at colleges, and Christian gets an ROTC scholarship, which
is you know, that's a big deal.
Speaker 3 (14:14):
Yeah, he got a full ride, he was accepted into
schools and he could you know, had tuition. He has
scholarship money to go as well. And he ended up
going to NC State, which is where he wanted to go.
That was his true college yet.
Speaker 1 (14:26):
And he also got into the elite engineering program there, right,
which is not an easy get.
Speaker 3 (14:33):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (14:34):
So to know that your child is this like star
and they're going to have this great career in engineering,
there's a feeling of relief for a parent, like we
did our job, you know, we have delivered our child
to this next phase of.
Speaker 2 (14:49):
Life where they are going to start taking over.
Speaker 1 (14:51):
They've made great choices they're going to continue to do.
Speaker 4 (14:55):
So it's the perfect result for the expectations of Tony
and Dhali's parents.
Speaker 1 (15:00):
And then what happens.
Speaker 2 (15:02):
Katie gets pregnant, and it's.
Speaker 1 (15:04):
Hard to say that in a way where it doesn't
sound like this is bad news, Like a baby's not
bad news, you know, especially if it's between two people
who come from good families and can be good parents
either together or separate, and so the baby's something that
neither one of them is disappointed about. Let's hear from
Dolly Christian's mom on how she felt about hearing that
(15:25):
Christian was going to be a dad.
Speaker 8 (15:27):
I think in the beginning he couldn't even think about
the excitement because of the stress of like, what am
I going to do? You know, I'm in school, how
I'm going to do this? And I gotta tell my mom.
But once he told us and then he came up
with a plan of how he was going to do school,
he did get very excited and we were excited too
that we're going to be a grandmother too. That was
going to be a grandmother with grandparents too.
Speaker 2 (15:49):
So they basically say to him, be a great dad.
We'll support everything you do, but stay in school. The
best thing you can do for your family and your
baby is to stay in school. And you know that's
a great piece of advice, and we will help you.
Speaker 3 (16:06):
They were like, we will help you through this, but
do what's right for you and your family. Stay in
school and we will help you well.
Speaker 1 (16:11):
The mythology is that the kids who get pregnant in
high school are the loose kids, the kids from broken homes,
the kids from different you know, like darker circumstances, you know,
or at least.
Speaker 2 (16:25):
The kids who are not going to be leaving the town.
Speaker 1 (16:27):
Right, they're the unsupervised kids. Christian is an all star
from an all star family, and so it breaks that mythology.
You know, he's the last person anyone would suspect would
be having a baby with the preacher's daughter in high school. Right.
Speaker 2 (16:47):
And so they say keep going, and he says, yes,
I'm going to and he makes this plan to go
to college. It's less than two hours away drive and
he's going to go to college and come back on
the weekends to take care of his baby. I mean,
when we asked Dolly about what his plans in his
(17:07):
relationship with Katie were before the pregnancy. You know, he's
going off to college. He's got all these big dreams
and goals that he's hitting and they aren't having a discussion.
Speaker 1 (17:17):
What we do know is that Christian's not upset. He's
not like, oh no, I'm trapped. Christian's excited to be
a dad, right.
Speaker 3 (17:24):
Yeah, by all accounts, he's a love of a Katie
and he was excited to have a baby. But it
was hard. But it's hard, hard, hard for young people
to be able to do this. What for me?
Speaker 4 (17:34):
This love story is supposed to end in a happy ending,
despite any obstacles that might have been there, their youth,
their race, the fact that she's a preacher's daughter. It
should have ended in a happy fashion.
Speaker 2 (17:50):
And it's the humanization, I mean, the focus that Andrew
has is because we're not trying like, who were these people?
Who was this beautiful boy Christian Griggs? You know who
was Katie? We don't get to speak to either of them.
We would like to, obviously have spoken to Katie, but
we don't want them to be cardboard cutouts. We want
to understand the joy and the beauty that existed when
(18:11):
he was alive and they were together as well.
Speaker 1 (18:13):
And to that point, let's hear from somebody who was
friends with Christian. This is Nate and he's actually going
to tell us how Christian felt about becoming a dad.
Speaker 7 (18:24):
He was nervous, but he was excited.
Speaker 5 (18:26):
Right, So you tell anybody eighteen nineteen years old you're
going to be a dad, Well that's a shock.
Speaker 7 (18:33):
So once you get over that shock, you have to
try to process it.
Speaker 5 (18:37):
Right now, I'm not a dad, so I don't know myself,
but I know when he would talk about it, he
was excited and his smile had like a little extra
on it. He was always smiling, but it had a
little extra on it when it talked about him being
a father, and I think that was one of the
things that he looked forward to more than anything in
(18:57):
the world, was being a father and spending the shop.
Speaker 4 (19:01):
I mean, that's heartbreaking to me to hear that, me too.
Everybody's doing the right thing. He's trying to do the
right thing, and to hear that, I mean, he's older now,
but you know this is what he's gathering about Christian
at eighteen. That's amazing. My initial approach to the story
was that this is a love story, and it's an
(19:23):
all American love story. It just so happens to be
that one person is white and one person is black,
and actually Dolly and Tony his parents are rooting for him,
trying to make it happen.
Speaker 1 (19:36):
Can I ask you a personal question, Andrew, because in hindsight,
you know, when we're in the moment, You're right, we're
all just so busy, hair on fire, trying to catch
what we can catch. But was your concern about the
love story between this interracial couple at all rooted in
your own personal experience.
Speaker 4 (19:53):
Yes, absolutely, I mean I grew up in the South.
Speaker 1 (19:56):
Did you ever experience racism growing up in Tennessee?
Speaker 8 (19:59):
Yeah?
Speaker 4 (20:00):
Yes, yes. We were half Asian children, half Chinese. Basically
we were the others in our neighborhood. We were known
as the other, the Oriental kids, or something else, but
we were definitely identified as the other, me and my brothers.
I mean, I want the question of racism, institutional racism,
social racism, however you want to label it dead, I
(20:22):
want it done. Personally, I'm tired of it and enough
people have suffered. So you know, when I came to
this story initially, I was like, oh, well, this is
exciting on one level in this aspect, here are people
trying to make this unlikely union work. I do have
a personal investment in saying, hey, maybe it's just the
(20:43):
gun problem here. Maybe at least there's some progress here,
there's some silver lining in this tragedy.
Speaker 1 (20:54):
From patches In Hall's generation to Katie Chisenhall's generation.
Speaker 4 (20:58):
That's right, and patches In Hall, we don't know exactly
how he feels, or whether he's totally pleased or entirely
displeased that his son in law is black, but he
is trying to make an effort, I believe.
Speaker 3 (21:11):
I mean, I think the other aspect to this story
that Nate brought up is it's beyond just the racial component.
It's the fact that they're really young. Yeah, she gets back.
Speaker 1 (21:20):
That's probably the bigger hurdle.
Speaker 3 (21:21):
It's the bigger hurdle. They're young, and she's pregnant, and
they're going to get married.
Speaker 1 (21:37):
Here's what strikes me, though, Christian is able to immediately
be optimistic about having a child because he saw how
joyful his parents were as parents. They through all the parties,
they coached little league, they took the kids on trips.
It was an engaging childhood. And so Christian isn't seen
becoming a father as anything oppressive of He's seen it
(22:01):
as an opportunity to experience that joy himself. And so
even as his plans are derailed, he maintains that optimism
and that ability to continue to adjust is a strength
that he clearly got from his parents. And so when
his parents say we're going to help you no matter what,
was there any part of you that doubted that the
(22:22):
Griggs family would just show up in full force for
this new grand battle.
Speaker 2 (22:25):
Now.
Speaker 3 (22:26):
No, they were definitely I mean, obviously it's a blow
to have the plans suddenly change for their son, but
they were excited for the kid, and they were definitely
going to do whatever they needed to do to help
him out, to help the family out.
Speaker 2 (22:39):
I think they just really wanted him to stay on track.
That seems to be that is what they wanted to do.
But it wasn't a giant like, oh my god, we're
going to disown you. How dare you suck? You know,
there was no talk of that.
Speaker 1 (22:50):
Christian goes off to college. Katie is in the last
trimester ever pregnancy, and I have been pregnant twice, Poe,
You've had a baby. It's a very very emotional time
in any person's life. And so Christian's away at school
while Katie's left at home for that last trimester. Finally,
November ninth, two thousand and eight, their baby is born
(23:12):
and they have a beautiful baby girl.
Speaker 2 (23:15):
Her name is Jaden, and it's beautiful looking at the
photographs of him holding that baby. She looks like him, yeah,
and he looks adoring.
Speaker 1 (23:24):
And we also saw pictures of Tony and Dolly very
proud grandparents holding this baby, and you get the sense
that everything's it's going to be hard, but it's going
to work out. You know, You've got this new life
to bring everyone together. Except Christian goes back to school
(23:44):
and what a month passes before he comes home with
a realization.
Speaker 3 (23:50):
Yeah, pretty quickly after Jaden was born, Christian realized it
was going to be too much for him to try
to juggle raising his daughter, going to school, the commute
back and forth, the.
Speaker 1 (24:02):
Becausion she felt to support them. Let's talk about that,
because if his parents are offering help and she is
living in her parents' home, what is the expectation for
Christian to provide?
Speaker 2 (24:16):
I mean, I don't know. Line by line, I don't know,
but he's expecting himself to support his family. And that's
what he says, That's what Dolly says.
Speaker 1 (24:23):
As we learn who Christian was, it's important to also
discuss the uncomfortable stuff. So while it is true that
Christian had a life full of promise, he's a bright
and bubbly kid. In our research, we also came across
this incident that happened between Christian and his dad, Tony.
Speaker 3 (24:43):
I think after Jaden was born, Christian was finding it
increasingly difficult to maintain his studies and be a father,
and he decided he was not going to return to
NC State at the end of the semester. So after
he moves out of the dorms, he comes back to
his parents' house. Now, the details of what happened after that,
we don't have exactly how things unfolded, but we do
(25:04):
know that there was a heated discussion between Christian and
his father, Tony, and that it had gotten so intense
that Christian's little sister Crystal called nine one one, and
basically the police came and responded to the scene, and
another argument apparently ensued between Christian and the officer, and
(25:26):
the officer took Christian into custody. He was released the
next morning. There was no charges made, but the incident
was pivotal for the family. The family made up. By
all accounts, they reconciled, but Christian announced that he was
going to move in with Katie and Jaden at the
Chisenhall house.
Speaker 2 (25:45):
Yeah, and he did manage to finish the semester, but
because being up there, going to school, coming down, trying
to parent his grades were lapsing, and he made that decision.
The interesting thing about the incident is that they were
a law and order family. They clearly came from military.
They believed in, you know, that kind of structure. They
(26:07):
were supporters of part of in a way, and they
believed in law and order. Ultimately, they were let down
and betrayed by law and order.
Speaker 4 (26:16):
But Christian's fourteen year old sister, who's maybe never seen
her father and her brother quarrel in a violent manner.
Things were supposedly being broken making this phone call to
nine to one one.
Speaker 1 (26:29):
Right, it was a kid. It wasn't his parent calling
the police. It was his kid's sister, right. And I
want to normalize teenage fights with your parent. I mean,
there is a separation process that happens, especially with the
oldest kid. They're the one that has to kind of
pave the way for everyone else. And I had a
(26:50):
blow up fight with my parent senior year in high
school where I was like, I am going to leave
and you will never hear from me again, and it
was scary, and he did. And so when we hear
about this fight between Christian and Tony, I don't think
you ever want to be in that position with your kid.
Speaker 3 (27:08):
We knew we would have to ask Christian's family about
this incident because it does come up later in the case.
Speaker 1 (27:16):
This is a young man who has to grow up
very very fast. You know, He's trying to figure out
how to balance it all, and then he has this
really intense fight with his dad. So let's hear Tony
briefly reflect on how that fight sits with him today.
Speaker 6 (27:31):
Christian, who's going through a lot of things at that time,
dealing with Katie, the new birth of the baby school,
he was going through things that I've seen man twice
his age. Struggle with this had no bearing on what
happened on the day in which Christian was murdered. What
fallout Christian and I had when he was eighteen years
(27:53):
old had no bearing on that day. If you would,
I like to read a card that Christian gave me
for Father's Day.
Speaker 7 (28:00):
Christian gave me his card on Father's Day, two Thy.
Speaker 6 (28:05):
Eleven, and it reads good, wise, strong. A good man
is one is love for the warmth and carrying in
his heart. A wise man is one who teaches about
the fine example of his life. A strong man is
one who has worked hard and always done his.
Speaker 7 (28:25):
Best for his family.
Speaker 6 (28:27):
A successful man is one who has earned the respect
and admiration of others.
Speaker 7 (28:33):
And he wrote in the.
Speaker 6 (28:33):
Inscription, many of the things you have taught me I
applied to my life every day, and your words are
forever mine. Sometimes always I remember you said to me
in a different sense, but in so true in life.
That doesn't matter what you do, as long as you
live right. It comes down to how you live.
Speaker 7 (28:52):
Dad.
Speaker 6 (28:53):
Throughout the years, you have been the ideal modeling father
to me. You have paid and supported so many opportunities
for our family. I hope that I could leave my
family in the same path. I've learned what it means
to be a man and a father. I know exactly
where to turn when in need. Although I'm finding my
own path, I feel confident in myself because of the
(29:14):
foundation you have built. Just know that our relationship is priceless.
It's something I will always remember well and said thank
you for being you dead proud to be your son.
Speaker 9 (29:32):
In Christian Griggs, what happened between Christian and I as
a teenager had no bearing on what happened that day
and what was done to Christian. He tried to create
a narrative in which Christian was this out of control
guy or whatever it might be, but that was so
far from the truth. As you heard those words, and
the man in which Christian.
Speaker 3 (29:53):
Was, he loved you and admired you, and are you.
Speaker 1 (30:09):
That's it for this week's episode of True Crime Story
It Couldn't Happen Here, But be sure to join us
next week as we dive deeper into the Christian Griggs case.
Speaker 4 (30:19):
Tony arrives at the Chisenhall House to find Christian laying
on the porch within a minute or two of him
being shot.
Speaker 1 (30:30):
Join us next week as we continue to roll up
our sleeves and dig in. Thank you so much for
joining us. If you haven't watched Sundance TV's True Crime
Story It Couldn't Happen Here, you can catch all of
our episodes streaming on AMC Plus. For more information about
this and other cases we've covered, follow at ice HH
(30:53):
stories on Instagram. True Crime Story It Couldn't Happen Here
was produced by miss Cheff Farm in association with Bungalow
Media and Entertainment, Authentic Management Productions, and Figdonia in partnership
with Sundance TV. Executive producers are me, Hillary Burton, Morgan
Liz Deecessor, Robert Friedman, Mike Powers, and Meg Mortimer. Producers
(31:18):
are Maggie Robinson, Katz and Libby Siegel. Our audio engineer
is Brendan Dalton, with original music by Philip Radiotis. We
want to say a special thank you to everyone who participated,
but especially the families impacted by our cases.
Hi guys, it's Hillary here. Just a quick note. This
series does deal with a lot of tough subject matter
that may be difficult for some listeners, so please keep
this in mind when and where you choose to listen
to these episodes. It's important to know the different sides
(00:21):
of a person's personality before we get into the details
of what happened and how and when, so that we
can fully understand the experience that they are taking into
the events of October twelfth, twenty thirteen. Christian Griggs was
a bright young man with a bright future and a
(00:42):
great work ethic and high hopes for raising a family
of his own in the way that his parents had
raised him and his sister. And so when we address
what happened on the day he died, it changes how
we view the experience. It changes how we analyze the experience,
It changes how we empathize with the experience, because if
(01:06):
you see a little glimmer of yourself and Christian Griggs,
it makes it really terrifying that it could potentially happen
to you. It could potentially happen here. Last episode, we
introduced you to the quiet country town of Andrew, North Carolina,
and on this episode, we're going to learn who Christian
(01:27):
was and the hopes and dreams that he had for
his life. It was a future that was cut all
too short by the events of October twelfth, twenty thirteen.
I'm Hillary Burton Morgan and this is true crime story.
It Couldn't Happen Here. Welcome back to It Couldn't Happen
(01:52):
Here the podcast where we are discussing the Christian Griggs
story that we covered on our television series. As a
quick recap, it is the case of a twenty three
year old young black man in Andrew, North, Carolina, who
was shot in broad daylight by his father in law.
(02:12):
It is worth noting that his father in law was
a white pastor in the community, and so this is
a really conflicted case because we're dealing with race, religion,
the right to bear arms, and the Castle doctrine, which
becomes an important part of this narrative. It is legislation
that was passed that gives someone the right to use
(02:34):
deadly force to protect their own home. Before we dive
into everything that transpired that day, we need to understand
all the people involved. I want to start with Christian's parents,
Tony and Dolly Greggs. You know, as we were preparing
for this case, we learned that they're a military family.
Christian served, but so did his parents, and it automatically
(02:57):
just puts me in a place of reverence. You know,
I feel this huge response ability to show up for
these people in a respectful way. Do any of you
come from military families?
Speaker 2 (03:07):
No, but my ex husband was Marines.
Speaker 3 (03:09):
Yeah, my father's in the Navy.
Speaker 4 (03:11):
Yeah, I'm a product of the military.
Speaker 1 (03:14):
Your dad was Air Force, Yeah, I'm Armie. You know,
we cover a lot of branches between all of us,
and there's a tone that is different about military families.
You know that they experience a reality that not everyone
has to. There's always the threat of danger, there's the
(03:34):
reality of your family being separated for periods of time.
Speaker 2 (03:38):
Tony, Christian's father was in combat and had his life
on the line.
Speaker 1 (03:44):
We learned that Christian Griggs was in Iraq and returned
home experienced some loss while he was over there. And
for me personally, you know, the behind the scenes talk.
I have a tattoo on my wrist for a very
good child friend of mine that died in Iraq, and
so the idea that your child could survive that environment
(04:06):
and then come home and be killed in your town.
Was something I went into this interview having pretty big
feelings about. I can't imagine the horror show of that.
You know, the dangers over there, it's not here. When
we go to Andrew, North Carolina, Dan, you met with
Tony and Dolly before I ever got there, and what
(04:30):
was your day with them?
Speaker 5 (04:31):
Like?
Speaker 3 (04:32):
They were great. I mean they welcomed us in to
their home and were very accommodating of our crew. They
were definitely cautious, and you know, they were friendly, but
cautious is the initial thing. And we interviewed Tony first
and again he took a little while to warm up,
(04:52):
but once we started talking and getting into the story,
I mean he just opened up and really was able
to talk about his son, talk about their situation, talk
about what happened.
Speaker 1 (05:04):
Let's talk about the visuals of their home because that
tells a story too. When you pull up at their house,
it is meticulous. The hedges are trimmed perfectly, the grass
is perfect.
Speaker 2 (05:17):
That house never needs a pain job. He preemptively paints it.
I mean, it is a shiny, shiny star on the block.
Speaker 4 (05:24):
You know, there's an American flag flying in the front lawn.
There's a sign that tells us it's their home. There's
a small memorial for Christian in the front yard.
Speaker 2 (05:37):
And in the house itself. I mean that shrine which
you go to is so heavy. The shrine to Christian
in the house with the flag and his pictures of
this vibrant.
Speaker 1 (05:50):
Well, that's it. His mother has filled the house with
signs of life. And you walk in and turn to
the left and there is a family room where there's
a fireplace with tons of pictures. They had framed photos everywhere.
And then as you move further back through the house,
there's a specific shrine to Christian.
Speaker 3 (06:10):
They had the folded American flag that was draped over
Christian's coffin.
Speaker 2 (06:14):
They folded into this little triangle and they give it
to the surviving family member. After a funeral of a
military person.
Speaker 4 (06:21):
That's in the show. You see that often in a
box in a lot of houses, and there's always sort
of a pregnant question whose is that it means? You know,
it's somebody who was a US service member who has
perished in one way.
Speaker 3 (06:36):
Or the other.
Speaker 1 (06:37):
Seeing how meticulous everything was immediately informed me that Tony
was a serious man. And what I have noticed about
some of our other interviews is that some of those
subjects can be kind of apologetic or uncomfortable with the
cameras and the variables that we bring into a person's home.
(06:59):
And I think because Tony and Dolly have dealt with
more stressful situations than a camera crew, they were unintimidated.
I never got the sense that they were shy about
what we were bringing into their environment.
Speaker 3 (07:12):
Right, I mean, it is meticulous. It is, you know,
the beautiful home and we're bringing heavy equipment in and
you know, we're always very careful, you know, not to
damage anything. If we want to move a chair, we
need to move some furniture around. But they yeah, again
they were like, sure, move anything you want anyway you
want to clearly proud homeowners.
Speaker 1 (07:32):
You know, let's talk about the way that Tony and
Dolly described their son. We're getting to know Christian through them,
So what did they talk about?
Speaker 2 (07:41):
A shining star, you know, a very loving home clearly
with him and his sister, and how just a leader,
a natural leader, and that this is backed up by
other people that we interviewed. But he's a bright, beautiful
boy who is bound for something, just like his teacher
(08:02):
told you on the phone and told us when she
reached out, he was going places.
Speaker 3 (08:07):
Yeah, I think everybody in that family, I mean, they're
very proud, successful people, and I think Christian and his
sister were definitely on the road to great things. You know,
I think they just grew up in a really supportive family.
Speaker 1 (08:19):
I mean, you see the Little League pictures. Tony was
a coach on his son's team. Christian became like an
all star soccer player. He was in national honor society, academically,
really successful. He seemed to have a really large circle
of friends.
Speaker 2 (08:37):
Yeah, his friends said like he was the most popular guy.
He didn't meet an enemy, He only met friends.
Speaker 6 (08:43):
Christian was a friend to everybody. It didn't matter what
your color was. It didn't matter what your nationality was,
whether you were Hispanic, Black, White, Asian, Muslim, Christian, Jewish,
it didn't matter to Christian. What mattered was the quality
of the heart and the individual and the person. Christian
was loving, caring, youthful, athletic, intelligent, hardworking, curious.
Speaker 7 (09:09):
Christian was the ultimate wing man. What do you mean
by that?
Speaker 6 (09:14):
If you were out to do something you said, hey, Christian,
let's go get let's do it.
Speaker 7 (09:18):
He's like, yeah, I'm with it. I got your back.
You know, he was that kind of guy.
Speaker 2 (09:22):
Everybody liked him.
Speaker 1 (09:23):
Everybody bubbly. He's a muscling, a.
Speaker 2 (09:26):
Mustling, handsome, tall guy who's sporty, but they call him bubbly.
Speaker 3 (09:31):
But his smile. Everybody talked about his smile.
Speaker 8 (09:34):
Smile.
Speaker 2 (09:34):
I mean, he's so handsome, but you can see such
a glow, such a lightness emanating in all his photos.
Speaker 3 (09:41):
His buddies all really spoke so highly of I mean,
everybody loved him, and then they talked about the girls
loved him too.
Speaker 8 (09:48):
You know.
Speaker 3 (09:48):
It's yeah, it's like everybody wanted to be Christian's girlfriend.
We reached out to several of Christian's friends, and you know,
we can only talk to so many people for our episode.
And Nate, you know, he just was really good as
far as talking to us about who Christian was. They
were childhood friends, they grew up together. They were very close.
Speaker 7 (10:09):
So I met.
Speaker 5 (10:10):
Christian probably through athletics, through the rec league athletics and
in school and then in middle school and high school
we played sports together. And what's what's Christian's What was
Christian's best quality smile? Guaranteed, his smile was amazing. It
was it had the power to light to room up.
Speaker 3 (10:33):
And did Christian make friends easily?
Speaker 5 (10:37):
Is he popular guy? Christian was probably one of the
most popular people. Everybody knew Christian Griggs. Everybody enjoyed being
around Christian Griggs. Nobody ever had problems with him or anything.
He was always a fun person to be around. He
was part of every friend group. He was a very
well liked person.
Speaker 3 (10:58):
He knows Christian's parent parents, Dolly and Tony. They've remained
close even after Christian was gone. I mean he still
goes and plays golf with Tony. You know, it's really
nice to see. I think it's good for both of them.
I think Dolly and Tony really like having Nate still
part of their lives. And it's another connection to Christian
that they're able to keep.
Speaker 2 (11:18):
And the thing is that you know, as we learned earlier,
but Dolly and Tony, their house was the hub. Like
Christian was a very gregary, it's very popular, very welcoming guy.
And his friends would congregate. I mean they would hang
out at the Griggs's house. That was like home away
from home spot, so you can imagine how empty it
feels later instead of replacing that with family, there's emptiness
(11:41):
and to have Nate still involved. And I also think
some of his other friends were a bit disappointed, like
we were feeling a little pressure, like maybe we should
interview more than one of his friends because.
Speaker 1 (11:49):
They wanted to talk.
Speaker 2 (11:51):
There's a hole not just for Tony and Dolly and
their family, but for his friends. I mean, it was
clearly an important part of a lot of people's lives.
Speaker 1 (12:13):
It seemed like his parents really prided themselves in being
community members that participated and took care of other people's
children and did the car pools and the sports and
all the extracurricular stuff while maintaining pretty you know, serious careers.
So we know a little bit more about who Christian was.
(12:35):
His parents, Tony and Dolly, Let's talk a little bit
more about Katie. Dolly was clear that her son had
not brought girls home before that she'd maybe heard some
of the friends over at the house talking about how
popular he was. Christy was popular. I'm sure he had
lots of little girlfriends.
Speaker 3 (12:53):
She says. He had a lot of girlfriends, but he
hadn't met ye brought him home.
Speaker 1 (12:58):
So tell me how Tony and Dolly described this girl
that Christian brings home senior year in high school.
Speaker 2 (13:04):
I mean, I remember more of how his friend described
Christian just suddenly being like, oh my God, like it
was a whole different Christian in relation to her. But yeah,
it was the first girl that he brought home seriously
and it was serious, but there wasn't talk about a
continuation of it. And although one is white and one
is black in a southern community, which they're saying, there's
(13:26):
not an outward racism there, but it is obviously different.
Speaker 1 (13:30):
It's different. And you know, I think, speaking of someone
who was a teen in Virginia, you always want to
think that you're hipper than your parents, so you're more
open minded than your parents, and so maybe Katie and
Christian's generation felt that they were outside of any prejudice
that existed for their parents' generation. It's clear that on paper,
(13:54):
Christian and Katie are the cute All American high school.
They're both winners, they both come from really good families,
and so they're both in high school, they're starting to
look at colleges, and Christian gets an ROTC scholarship, which
is you know, that's a big deal.
Speaker 3 (14:14):
Yeah, he got a full ride, he was accepted into
schools and he could you know, had tuition. He has
scholarship money to go as well. And he ended up
going to NC State, which is where he wanted to go.
That was his true college yet.
Speaker 1 (14:26):
And he also got into the elite engineering program there, right,
which is not an easy get.
Speaker 3 (14:33):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (14:34):
So to know that your child is this like star
and they're going to have this great career in engineering,
there's a feeling of relief for a parent, like we
did our job, you know, we have delivered our child
to this next phase of.
Speaker 2 (14:49):
Life where they are going to start taking over.
Speaker 1 (14:51):
They've made great choices they're going to continue to do.
Speaker 4 (14:55):
So it's the perfect result for the expectations of Tony
and Dhali's parents.
Speaker 1 (15:00):
And then what happens.
Speaker 2 (15:02):
Katie gets pregnant, and it's.
Speaker 1 (15:04):
Hard to say that in a way where it doesn't
sound like this is bad news, Like a baby's not
bad news, you know, especially if it's between two people
who come from good families and can be good parents
either together or separate, and so the baby's something that
neither one of them is disappointed about. Let's hear from
Dolly Christian's mom on how she felt about hearing that
(15:25):
Christian was going to be a dad.
Speaker 8 (15:27):
I think in the beginning he couldn't even think about
the excitement because of the stress of like, what am
I going to do? You know, I'm in school, how
I'm going to do this? And I gotta tell my mom.
But once he told us and then he came up
with a plan of how he was going to do school,
he did get very excited and we were excited too
that we're going to be a grandmother too. That was
going to be a grandmother with grandparents too.
Speaker 2 (15:49):
So they basically say to him, be a great dad.
We'll support everything you do, but stay in school. The
best thing you can do for your family and your
baby is to stay in school. And you know that's
a great piece of advice, and we will help you.
Speaker 3 (16:06):
They were like, we will help you through this, but
do what's right for you and your family. Stay in
school and we will help you well.
Speaker 1 (16:11):
The mythology is that the kids who get pregnant in
high school are the loose kids, the kids from broken homes,
the kids from different you know, like darker circumstances, you know,
or at least.
Speaker 2 (16:25):
The kids who are not going to be leaving the town.
Speaker 1 (16:27):
Right, they're the unsupervised kids. Christian is an all star
from an all star family, and so it breaks that mythology.
You know, he's the last person anyone would suspect would
be having a baby with the preacher's daughter in high school. Right.
Speaker 2 (16:47):
And so they say keep going, and he says, yes,
I'm going to and he makes this plan to go
to college. It's less than two hours away drive and
he's going to go to college and come back on
the weekends to take care of his baby. I mean,
when we asked Dolly about what his plans in his
(17:07):
relationship with Katie were before the pregnancy. You know, he's
going off to college. He's got all these big dreams
and goals that he's hitting and they aren't having a discussion.
Speaker 1 (17:17):
What we do know is that Christian's not upset. He's
not like, oh no, I'm trapped. Christian's excited to be
a dad, right.
Speaker 3 (17:24):
Yeah, by all accounts, he's a love of a Katie
and he was excited to have a baby. But it
was hard. But it's hard, hard, hard for young people
to be able to do this. What for me?
Speaker 4 (17:34):
This love story is supposed to end in a happy ending,
despite any obstacles that might have been there, their youth,
their race, the fact that she's a preacher's daughter. It
should have ended in a happy fashion.
Speaker 2 (17:50):
And it's the humanization, I mean, the focus that Andrew
has is because we're not trying like, who were these people?
Who was this beautiful boy Christian Griggs? You know who
was Katie? We don't get to speak to either of them.
We would like to, obviously have spoken to Katie, but
we don't want them to be cardboard cutouts. We want
to understand the joy and the beauty that existed when
(18:11):
he was alive and they were together as well.
Speaker 1 (18:13):
And to that point, let's hear from somebody who was
friends with Christian. This is Nate and he's actually going
to tell us how Christian felt about becoming a dad.
Speaker 7 (18:24):
He was nervous, but he was excited.
Speaker 5 (18:26):
Right, So you tell anybody eighteen nineteen years old you're
going to be a dad, Well that's a shock.
Speaker 7 (18:33):
So once you get over that shock, you have to
try to process it.
Speaker 5 (18:37):
Right now, I'm not a dad, so I don't know myself,
but I know when he would talk about it, he
was excited and his smile had like a little extra
on it. He was always smiling, but it had a
little extra on it when it talked about him being
a father, and I think that was one of the
things that he looked forward to more than anything in
(18:57):
the world, was being a father and spending the shop.
Speaker 4 (19:01):
I mean, that's heartbreaking to me to hear that, me too.
Everybody's doing the right thing. He's trying to do the
right thing, and to hear that, I mean, he's older now,
but you know this is what he's gathering about Christian
at eighteen. That's amazing. My initial approach to the story
was that this is a love story, and it's an
(19:23):
all American love story. It just so happens to be
that one person is white and one person is black,
and actually Dolly and Tony his parents are rooting for him,
trying to make it happen.
Speaker 1 (19:36):
Can I ask you a personal question, Andrew, because in hindsight,
you know, when we're in the moment, You're right, we're
all just so busy, hair on fire, trying to catch
what we can catch. But was your concern about the
love story between this interracial couple at all rooted in
your own personal experience.
Speaker 4 (19:53):
Yes, absolutely, I mean I grew up in the South.
Speaker 1 (19:56):
Did you ever experience racism growing up in Tennessee?
Speaker 8 (19:59):
Yeah?
Speaker 4 (20:00):
Yes, yes. We were half Asian children, half Chinese. Basically
we were the others in our neighborhood. We were known
as the other, the Oriental kids, or something else, but
we were definitely identified as the other, me and my brothers.
I mean, I want the question of racism, institutional racism,
social racism, however you want to label it dead, I
(20:22):
want it done. Personally, I'm tired of it and enough
people have suffered. So you know, when I came to
this story initially, I was like, oh, well, this is
exciting on one level in this aspect, here are people
trying to make this unlikely union work. I do have
a personal investment in saying, hey, maybe it's just the
(20:43):
gun problem here. Maybe at least there's some progress here,
there's some silver lining in this tragedy.
Speaker 1 (20:54):
From patches In Hall's generation to Katie Chisenhall's generation.
Speaker 4 (20:58):
That's right, and patches In Hall, we don't know exactly
how he feels, or whether he's totally pleased or entirely
displeased that his son in law is black, but he
is trying to make an effort, I believe.
Speaker 3 (21:11):
I mean, I think the other aspect to this story
that Nate brought up is it's beyond just the racial component.
It's the fact that they're really young. Yeah, she gets back.
Speaker 1 (21:20):
That's probably the bigger hurdle.
Speaker 3 (21:21):
It's the bigger hurdle. They're young, and she's pregnant, and
they're going to get married.
Speaker 1 (21:37):
Here's what strikes me, though, Christian is able to immediately
be optimistic about having a child because he saw how
joyful his parents were as parents. They through all the parties,
they coached little league, they took the kids on trips.
It was an engaging childhood. And so Christian isn't seen
becoming a father as anything oppressive of He's seen it
(22:01):
as an opportunity to experience that joy himself. And so
even as his plans are derailed, he maintains that optimism
and that ability to continue to adjust is a strength
that he clearly got from his parents. And so when
his parents say we're going to help you no matter what,
was there any part of you that doubted that the
(22:22):
Griggs family would just show up in full force for
this new grand battle.
Speaker 2 (22:25):
Now.
Speaker 3 (22:26):
No, they were definitely I mean, obviously it's a blow
to have the plans suddenly change for their son, but
they were excited for the kid, and they were definitely
going to do whatever they needed to do to help
him out, to help the family out.
Speaker 2 (22:39):
I think they just really wanted him to stay on track.
That seems to be that is what they wanted to do.
But it wasn't a giant like, oh my god, we're
going to disown you. How dare you suck? You know,
there was no talk of that.
Speaker 1 (22:50):
Christian goes off to college. Katie is in the last
trimester ever pregnancy, and I have been pregnant twice, Poe,
You've had a baby. It's a very very emotional time
in any person's life. And so Christian's away at school
while Katie's left at home for that last trimester. Finally,
November ninth, two thousand and eight, their baby is born
(23:12):
and they have a beautiful baby girl.
Speaker 2 (23:15):
Her name is Jaden, and it's beautiful looking at the
photographs of him holding that baby. She looks like him, yeah,
and he looks adoring.
Speaker 1 (23:24):
And we also saw pictures of Tony and Dolly very
proud grandparents holding this baby, and you get the sense
that everything's it's going to be hard, but it's going
to work out. You know, You've got this new life
to bring everyone together. Except Christian goes back to school
(23:44):
and what a month passes before he comes home with
a realization.
Speaker 3 (23:50):
Yeah, pretty quickly after Jaden was born, Christian realized it
was going to be too much for him to try
to juggle raising his daughter, going to school, the commute
back and forth, the.
Speaker 1 (24:02):
Becausion she felt to support them. Let's talk about that,
because if his parents are offering help and she is
living in her parents' home, what is the expectation for
Christian to provide?
Speaker 2 (24:16):
I mean, I don't know. Line by line, I don't know,
but he's expecting himself to support his family. And that's
what he says, That's what Dolly says.
Speaker 1 (24:23):
As we learn who Christian was, it's important to also
discuss the uncomfortable stuff. So while it is true that
Christian had a life full of promise, he's a bright
and bubbly kid. In our research, we also came across
this incident that happened between Christian and his dad, Tony.
Speaker 3 (24:43):
I think after Jaden was born, Christian was finding it
increasingly difficult to maintain his studies and be a father,
and he decided he was not going to return to
NC State at the end of the semester. So after
he moves out of the dorms, he comes back to
his parents' house. Now, the details of what happened after that,
we don't have exactly how things unfolded, but we do
(25:04):
know that there was a heated discussion between Christian and
his father, Tony, and that it had gotten so intense
that Christian's little sister Crystal called nine one one, and
basically the police came and responded to the scene, and
another argument apparently ensued between Christian and the officer, and
(25:26):
the officer took Christian into custody. He was released the
next morning. There was no charges made, but the incident
was pivotal for the family. The family made up. By
all accounts, they reconciled, but Christian announced that he was
going to move in with Katie and Jaden at the
Chisenhall house.
Speaker 2 (25:45):
Yeah, and he did manage to finish the semester, but
because being up there, going to school, coming down, trying
to parent his grades were lapsing, and he made that decision.
The interesting thing about the incident is that they were
a law and order family. They clearly came from military.
They believed in, you know, that kind of structure. They
(26:07):
were supporters of part of in a way, and they
believed in law and order. Ultimately, they were let down
and betrayed by law and order.
Speaker 4 (26:16):
But Christian's fourteen year old sister, who's maybe never seen
her father and her brother quarrel in a violent manner.
Things were supposedly being broken making this phone call to
nine to one one.
Speaker 1 (26:29):
Right, it was a kid. It wasn't his parent calling
the police. It was his kid's sister, right. And I
want to normalize teenage fights with your parent. I mean,
there is a separation process that happens, especially with the
oldest kid. They're the one that has to kind of
pave the way for everyone else. And I had a
(26:50):
blow up fight with my parent senior year in high
school where I was like, I am going to leave
and you will never hear from me again, and it
was scary, and he did. And so when we hear
about this fight between Christian and Tony, I don't think
you ever want to be in that position with your kid.
Speaker 3 (27:08):
We knew we would have to ask Christian's family about
this incident because it does come up later in the case.
Speaker 1 (27:16):
This is a young man who has to grow up
very very fast. You know, He's trying to figure out
how to balance it all, and then he has this
really intense fight with his dad. So let's hear Tony
briefly reflect on how that fight sits with him today.
Speaker 6 (27:31):
Christian, who's going through a lot of things at that time,
dealing with Katie, the new birth of the baby school,
he was going through things that I've seen man twice
his age. Struggle with this had no bearing on what
happened on the day in which Christian was murdered. What
fallout Christian and I had when he was eighteen years
(27:53):
old had no bearing on that day. If you would,
I like to read a card that Christian gave me
for Father's Day.
Speaker 7 (28:00):
Christian gave me his card on Father's Day, two Thy.
Speaker 6 (28:05):
Eleven, and it reads good, wise, strong. A good man
is one is love for the warmth and carrying in
his heart. A wise man is one who teaches about
the fine example of his life. A strong man is
one who has worked hard and always done his.
Speaker 7 (28:25):
Best for his family.
Speaker 6 (28:27):
A successful man is one who has earned the respect
and admiration of others.
Speaker 7 (28:33):
And he wrote in the.
Speaker 6 (28:33):
Inscription, many of the things you have taught me I
applied to my life every day, and your words are
forever mine. Sometimes always I remember you said to me
in a different sense, but in so true in life.
That doesn't matter what you do, as long as you
live right. It comes down to how you live.
Speaker 7 (28:52):
Dad.
Speaker 6 (28:53):
Throughout the years, you have been the ideal modeling father
to me. You have paid and supported so many opportunities
for our family. I hope that I could leave my
family in the same path. I've learned what it means
to be a man and a father. I know exactly
where to turn when in need. Although I'm finding my
own path, I feel confident in myself because of the
(29:14):
foundation you have built. Just know that our relationship is priceless.
It's something I will always remember well and said thank
you for being you dead proud to be your son.
Speaker 9 (29:32):
In Christian Griggs, what happened between Christian and I as
a teenager had no bearing on what happened that day
and what was done to Christian. He tried to create
a narrative in which Christian was this out of control
guy or whatever it might be, but that was so
far from the truth. As you heard those words, and
the man in which Christian.
Speaker 3 (29:53):
Was, he loved you and admired you, and are you.
Speaker 1 (30:09):
That's it for this week's episode of True Crime Story
It Couldn't Happen Here, But be sure to join us
next week as we dive deeper into the Christian Griggs case.
Speaker 4 (30:19):
Tony arrives at the Chisenhall House to find Christian laying
on the porch within a minute or two of him
being shot.
Speaker 1 (30:30):
Join us next week as we continue to roll up
our sleeves and dig in. Thank you so much for
joining us. If you haven't watched Sundance TV's True Crime
Story It Couldn't Happen Here, you can catch all of
our episodes streaming on AMC Plus. For more information about
this and other cases we've covered, follow at ice HH
(30:53):
stories on Instagram. True Crime Story It Couldn't Happen Here
was produced by miss Cheff Farm in association with Bungalow
Media and Entertainment, Authentic Management Productions, and Figdonia in partnership
with Sundance TV. Executive producers are me, Hillary Burton, Morgan
Liz Deecessor, Robert Friedman, Mike Powers, and Meg Mortimer. Producers
(31:18):
are Maggie Robinson, Katz and Libby Siegel. Our audio engineer
is Brendan Dalton, with original music by Philip Radiotis. We
want to say a special thank you to everyone who participated,
but especially the families impacted by our cases.
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