Defense Calls Familiar Faces in Idaho Murder Case, Karen Read Ready to Rest, and Gilgo Beach Uncovered: Rex Heuermann’s Alleged Crimes

Three Cases, One Dark Week: Gilgo, Idaho, and the Trial Turning Heads in Massachusetts.
Cori Abraham, Head of Unscripted at Versant, shares the development process and inside scoop on The Gilgo Beach Killer: House of Secrets — a three-part docuseries premiering on Peacock this Tuesday, June 10. Robert Banfelder, author of The Gilgo Beach Serial Killer Case: Does Rex Heuermann Reign King of Murder and Mayhem?, also joins the show to discuss his inspiration and revelations behind the book. Tune in for all the details.

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
This program features the individual opinions of the hosts, guests,
and callers, and not necessarily those of the producer, the station,
its affiliates, or sponsors. This is True Crime Tonight.

Speaker 2 (00:20):
Welcome to True Crime Tonight on iHeartRadio, where we talk
true crime all the time. I hope you had an
amazing weekend. It is Sunday, June eighth, and we have
a stacked night of headlines. We're talking about the retrial
of Karen Reid. As you guys may know, this could
potentially be the very last week of testimony. Plus victim
two in the P Diddy trial took the stand and

(00:42):
again this trial kind of rages on. This week, we're
doing a deep dive and also doing an extra long
look at the Long Island serial Killer. This is a
case we've talked about a little bit throughout the days
last week, but now we're doing an extra deep dive
with Corey Abraham, who's the head of Unscripted at Verst.

Speaker 3 (01:00):
She is coming here because she developed to the show.

Speaker 2 (01:03):
The Long Island Serial Killer is based on, called The
Gilgo Beach Killer.

Speaker 3 (01:07):
The House of Secrets.

Speaker 2 (01:09):
I'm Stephanie Lei Decker and I head of Kat studios
and I get to do that along with Courtney Armstrong
and Body move in now listen. We also want you
to make sure you join the conversation. So call us
anytime at eight eight eight three to one Crime, or
you could always hit us up on our socials at
True Crime Tonight on Facebook or at True Crime Tonight's

(01:30):
Show on TikTok or Instagram.

Speaker 3 (01:32):
So, Body, Karen Reid, where should we begin?

Speaker 4 (01:36):
Oh, day twenty eight? Can you believe Friday wrapped up?

Speaker 3 (01:40):
Unbelievable?

Speaker 4 (01:41):
It's been a long twenty eight days, right, and I
mean especially for Karen Reid. I mean, my goodness, but yeah,
Friday wrapped up day twenty eight in the retrial of
Karen Reid with really some compelling testimony. Reed told reporters
on Wednesday after court that she expects her defense team
to rest their case next week. So, I mean we
could probably have something by like Tuesday or Wednesday.

Speaker 2 (02:01):
That's incredible. It seems like this trial has been going
on forever, I know, twenty eight days, but in the
big scheme of that, think about it.

Speaker 3 (02:08):
This is the second trial. This is her great trial, right, I.

Speaker 2 (02:11):
Mean, how much time has been dedicated to this at
this point, do you have a feeling on it?

Speaker 4 (02:16):
Well, you know, you and I disagree a little bit
on this Casett, but you know, honestly, this week's testimony
was pretty compelling. You know, we had a bunch of
expert witnesses, and I think probably the most compelling expert
was the person who recreated the accident. You know, there's
listen the chatter on social media. If you're a free

(02:36):
Karen Reid person, the chatter is, oh my gosh, this
recreation absolutely is the nail in the coffin for the state.
Karen Reid is innocent, one hundred percent, proves that it
couldn't have happened with her suv right. But if you're
a Karen Reid as guilty person, you're like, the cross
of this expert was so good. The state did a
great job. This is the nail in the coffin. Karen

(02:57):
Read is guilty.

Speaker 3 (02:58):
Wow. And I mean it's divided.

Speaker 5 (03:00):
It depends on which side you are, because it does.
It's it's who's last in your ear?

Speaker 3 (03:05):
Could be the right? It does.

Speaker 4 (03:06):
And you know, and I have to admit, you know,
as somebody who kind of thinks Karen Reid is technically guilty.
I do think that there is going to be reasonable
doubt with the jury.

Speaker 2 (03:16):
I mean, how this point could there not be reasonable
doubt at the bare minimum?

Speaker 6 (03:20):
Right?

Speaker 2 (03:20):
So, you know, as we've said many times before, guilty
or innocent is really not what we're discussing here, right Like,
she has to be proven guilty at this point, and
you know, have they done a good enough job or
at least been able to raise enough suspicion in the
opposite direction. I mean, the reality is I think we
all would agree. John O'Keefe, you know, he was a

(03:41):
victim here, and you know I was. I was reading
a story that I had kind of forgotten. I don't
think we talk about it enough that he actually took
in his niece and his nephew, did his you know sister,
she died very tragically of brain cancer. Then soon thereafter
dad dies. So these you know, young kids at the
time of their parents' death were I think three and

(04:02):
six or so, and you know he took them in
and was raising them as his own. So, you know,
his mom, his family, they've all been through unimaginable loss
and it's gotten so heated. Did she didn't she guilty?
Because the trial. Look is compelling, it is, but we
sometimes lose sight of this family who's still grieving, and

(04:22):
you know, no matter how you slice it, there's no
happy ending for them.

Speaker 4 (04:26):
Right And so just as a reminder for people who
don't know what the heck we're talking about, because I'm
sure there's going to be somebody out there that's like
Karen Reid, what the heck? Karen Reid is accused of
hitting her boyfriend. He was a Boston police officer, his
name is John o'keef with her SUV after a night
of like partying with all their friends. Okay, there he
was found in the front yard of this home and

(04:47):
I'll get into that in a second. And he had
lacerations on his arm. And the accusation is that Karen
Reid hit him and drove away. She's being charged with
murder and fleeing the sea scene of the crime. I
think basically what it is her defense claims, though this
is where it gets kind of harry. Her defense claims
that she's being framed as a cover up, that there

(05:08):
was some kind of altercation inside the home with his
police friend buddies, and they put him basically on the
front lawn to kind of make it look like Karen.

Speaker 3 (05:16):
Reid hit him, so that essentially framed him exactly.

Speaker 4 (05:20):
So the cops that are doing the investigation are basically
the same cops that are buddies with the people in
the house, right. So this week there was, like I said,
pretty explosive testimony. Former Canton police officer Kelly Deaver revealed
that she had previously told the FBI investigators about seeing
atf agent Brian Higgins and the Canton Police officer Chief

(05:45):
Kenneth Berkowitz near reads suv for an extended period of time, suggesting,
you know, potential tampering, you know, possibly like breaking that
tail light, any number of things. But on the stand,
she retracted that statement, calling it a distorted memory, and
claimed that aggressive pressure from the defense attorneys influenced her

(06:08):
prior comments.

Speaker 5 (06:09):
You know, this is honestly, people talk about the expert testimony.
Kelly Dever's testimony was probably what most securely put me
into thinking that Karen Reid has in fact, in fact
been framed, because in between those two totally different things
that she said, between the trials, she was confirmed she
had a conversation with the Boston Police Commissioner Michael Cox

(06:32):
about the case. We have no knowledge of what was
said in there, and she maintains that it was only
that she quote, you know, tell the truth about the case.
It reads fishy to me.

Speaker 2 (06:44):
Well, her testimony was right out of law and order.
She was like, ah, you know, she had no memory
of anything. And it felt as though, you know, look,
this is an area snitches get stitches. You know, there
is sort of a code and stay out of it
is kind of the vibe. And I feel for everybody
involved in this one.

Speaker 3 (07:02):
It's a mess.

Speaker 5 (07:03):
It is so body what other testimony. I feel like
there's even more that happened there is.

Speaker 3 (07:08):
Yeah, there's a lot more to happen.

Speaker 4 (07:11):
Doctor Marie Russell, she's like a dog bite expert, and
she testified that the marks on John O'Keeffe's arm were
consistent with dog scratches, supporting the defensive theory that O'Keefe
was attacked inside that house by the dog. There was
some you know, there's some kind of altercation and during
this altercation, the dog got riled up and attacked John
O'Keeffe and those are why he has those like marks

(07:34):
on his arm. This testimony obviously challenges the prosecution's claim
that John O'Keeffe was struck by Karen Reid with the suv.

Speaker 2 (07:44):
Can I theorize on something again like not based on anything,
but what if all things are true here? What if
she he rolled into the house for this after party.
They'd all clearly been drinking too much. Karen Reid, although
she shouldn't have been driving, continues to peel out and
maybe John O'Keeffe while in this said house. You know,

(08:05):
they were all pretty drunk. You know, you see that
surveillance footage they were like whether they were squaring off
as men and buddies or you know, goofing around either
way that could somehow lead to a hustle, or whether
it's in good fun or otherwise he slips, the dog
gets involved.

Speaker 3 (08:22):
Now there scratches involved and.

Speaker 2 (08:24):
In a very oh my goodness moment, not like how
it's being described as some sort of you know, fight
broke out amongst friends and it's you know, maybe there
is something accidental to this and they're therefore was a
cover up, or maybe they realized that Karen did hit
their buddy and you know again their fellow police officer,

(08:44):
and wanted to make sure she really got what she
had come in and both things are true. Maybe maybe
they added to the evidence to make sure it sealed
the deal.

Speaker 4 (08:54):
Well, I mean, either way, it's a conspiracy if that's
exactly which were illegal, And I just feel like that's
such a disservice to the victim, right, And I do
find it hard to believe that police officers would do
that to a fellow police officer, like.

Speaker 3 (09:09):
Cover up, Yeah, unless they're involved. I mean, you know,
if a bunch of them, ye are I'm torn.

Speaker 5 (09:16):
And also this department has had kind of similar incidents
of cover up. I know we're going to get into
that much more next week, but keep that in the
back of your brains. This is not right sort of
the first time and again unique to this place.

Speaker 2 (09:29):
This is not a you know, an assassination on law
enforcement in a way. It's just you know, as it's
coming up real time, it's just at least worthy unpack.

Speaker 3 (09:38):
Okay.

Speaker 4 (09:38):
So then Jonathan diamandis I hope I'm saying that right.
He is a friend of the former lead UH investigator Proctor.
Member Proctor from the original trial that did costs, right,
so he testified that he was in those text messages
when Proctor called read like a whack job and the
sea word and said, yeah, she's a babe. We'd fall

(10:00):
river accident, you know, no ass but zero chance she's skating.

Speaker 3 (10:04):
She's fed.

Speaker 7 (10:05):
You know.

Speaker 4 (10:06):
He was, he was in those text messages, so he
substantiated that for the defense. So that was pretty damning
in my opinion for the state. Brian Lucky testified as well. Okay,
now he is the snowplow driver and if you remember,
there was it was like a blizzard that night, right,
so the snowplow was out after the alleged incident occurred.

(10:30):
So the theory is is that if John O'Keeffe was
hit by Karen Reid on the with the suv, he
would have been laying, you know, in the front yard
the whole time. While the snowplow driver testified he drove
by the house three times and never saw John O'Keeffe
on the front yard. However, listen, it was snowing. I
mean it was raining down snow like it was crazy snow.

(10:53):
So is it possible that you just you know, you're
not looking well, obviously you're looking a job.

Speaker 3 (10:58):
Yeah, but he's is he.

Speaker 4 (11:00):
Looking on a front yard, for but a mound of
snow for sure. Like that I think is the part
of the job.

Speaker 2 (11:05):
You know, especially in a blizzard, you have to keep
an eye out for cans and garbage things and pets,
and you know, you know, he was accustomed to seeing
that particular house a certain way. In fact, he had
a you know, I think he went to school with
one of them. Like, he knew that house fairly well,
and therefore it was something that he noted because yeah,

(11:25):
remember those big lights that those trucks have. Yeah, the
point is to look for something. But yeah, again it's
a person's memory versus the science of it.

Speaker 3 (11:33):
It's so I guess that's why this case has us
all riled up.

Speaker 5 (11:37):
Yeah, it really does. And I just I do have
to say that the snowplow driver's testimony, he had a
log of each of the times he did go by it,
and Stephanie, to your point, he did know the house.
So that also really has kept me on I guess
team Karen Reid, which is kind of hard to imagine.
I'm saying, but you are listening to true crime tonight,

(11:58):
and we're going to continue to follow this when we
get back. We're going to have the latest testimony in
the trial against Sean Diddy Combs. A Jane Doe reveals
shocking details of her former relationship with the music mogul. Later,
we have two guests to talk about the alleged Long
Island serial killer, Rex Huerman. We've got that and more

(12:19):
on True Crime tonight.

Speaker 2 (12:32):
So we've been talking about Karen Reid. This case obviously
will be heating up quite a bit. We're going to
get back to Karen a little bit later in the
show because Diddy, we have to get to Diddy. Diddy
very very explosive week yet again. You know, victim number
two took the stand and Courtney, I know you were
following that closely.

Speaker 5 (12:51):
Yeah, We're in week four of the trial against Shawan
Diddy Combs, and on Friday they wrapped up with as
you mentioned, Stephanie alleged victim going by Jane. She is
still on the stand and her testimony is expected to
continue tomorrow to catch anyone up who I guess at
this point has been kind of living under a rock

(13:11):
with the Diddy, who's been everywhere. Prosecutors alleged that for
twenty years from two thousand and four to twenty twenty
four Combs operated a criminal enterprise. This involved really hideous
acts kidnapping, arson, bribery, sex trafficking, and that he used
his influence in the music industry to lure people in
and also ps his crazy wealth to help control people.

(13:37):
I happen to notice in USA today that his wealth
is now at four hundred million, a drop from seven
hundred and forty million in twenty nineteen.

Speaker 3 (13:47):
Wow.

Speaker 5 (13:47):
Anyway, Yeah, that just struck me as a big job.

Speaker 3 (13:49):
But that's a pretty big drop.

Speaker 5 (13:51):
It's a pretty big drop. I think a lot of
what's been going on maybe has impacted that. But anyway,
he's a powerful and wealthy man. And according to Jane,
whose testimony seems to be horrifying, he really is controlling
in every capacity.

Speaker 3 (14:07):
Monster. He's a monster.

Speaker 4 (14:08):
Yeah yeah, if this is all true, even one of
the items are true, he's a monster.

Speaker 2 (14:13):
And it corroborates, you know this, Jane, Joe is saying
these stories that she has to recount in front of people,
you know, and these are very private moments. She was
a single mom kind of met this fancy mogul, you know,
can you imagine, And it seemed very romantic, and it
seemed as though she really was falling for him in
a very meaningful way and it seemed mutual, and little

(14:35):
by little he starts adding to the equation. Right, let's
now add more.

Speaker 3 (14:39):
Pushing the boundaries. That's the boundaries, right.

Speaker 5 (14:42):
Yeah, And Stephanie York exactly right on the little by
little specifically because it was it was dating, it was
private because Colmes was seeing other women. She knew this.
And then several months in he asked her do you
participate in a freak off? And then it became as
the relationship went on that it was stretches of more

(15:03):
and more of these freakofs and said that she felt
charmed into doing it. Did He's larger than life. He
made her feel so special and he was also you know,
supplementing her life and paying her bills, and she was
making sure the single mother had child care at all
times on standby so she could participate in these freak

(15:24):
offs at.

Speaker 3 (15:24):
His behest, and it seems like this was his thing.

Speaker 2 (15:27):
Like again, this man was running many companies, He had
a lot going on to be able to have these
sexual encounters for dats on Eddy multiple times a week,
and this was you know, several people's full time jobs
at some point, which to that point, just to jump
around on one thing that she said that I thought
was so compelling, is this entrance of KK. We've heard

(15:49):
this name for the very first time, really being entered
as we should keep a lookout for this Christina character.
She goes by KK and is alleged Ditty's big chief
of chief of staff essentially, and this is the person
who would kind of coordinate things and make sure he
had what he needed, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera.

(16:09):
That seems like that's really feeding this Rico piece. And
I think we're going to hear more of that this week.

Speaker 5 (16:16):
Yeah, I think that's exactly right. That'll be after, you know,
Jane finishes up her testimony. But what we've heard so far,
really you'd have to have a piece of marble for
your heart not to feel for this woman, you know.
She During the trial, the prosecution played videos of a
freak off and in it, Jane was asking a mail escort,

(16:39):
excuse me to wear a condom? Did he says no?
And in another video of the freak offs, she looked
Jane was very uncomfortable and was crying.

Speaker 2 (16:49):
Yeah girl, and having to witness that with all of
these people.

Speaker 4 (16:54):
Yeah, it's just I mean, she's very brave, right, She's
very brave. We have a talkback right now, Like right now,
I have a talk back and it's about Diddy. So
it's like perfect timing. Remember, just hit the little microphone
on any of our episodes and it will record a
message and we'll get it and we'll play it live
here on the show.

Speaker 3 (17:09):
Let's hear it.

Speaker 2 (17:11):
Hi.

Speaker 8 (17:11):
My name is Page from Hoboken, New Jersey, and my
question is what do you make of Jane's testimony from Friday.
The fact that she had to sit through the prosecution
playing videos of her during the Freakoffs sounds so horrifying,
and she looks so uncomfortable.

Speaker 3 (17:26):
We're just talking about that. That's a great question, Thank you, Paige.

Speaker 5 (17:31):
I have to say I think it was honestly a
very good thing, because these freak offs have become so
sensationalized as to be almost abstract and as harrowing as
it was for this woman Jane to sit through them,
the jury has to know this is the same human being,
a human being sitting before.

Speaker 3 (17:48):
You, So it humanizes it, right, That's right? Yeah, still
still so intense though.

Speaker 2 (17:54):
I mean again, it's so difficult to get up there
and probably have to rely, you know, relive some of this,
recount it knowing people are going to hear it. You're
sitting in front of a juror in like a full courthouse,
and now they're playing the videos.

Speaker 4 (18:08):
Brutal it does really humanize, course course humanized because like
if you're just talking about the freak ops, it doesn't
really you can't really picture it, right, sure, but then
you have a video and the one of the victims
on the stand probably pretty emotional. I mean I would be,
it'd be like, it really does humanize it, and I
think it's probably a bad look for the defense.

Speaker 2 (18:29):
Where is victim number three? Is that just we're just
done with that. That just isn't going to happen anymore. Well,
but there is more, you know, there's more court to
com so.

Speaker 3 (18:39):
No, that's much more.

Speaker 2 (18:40):
But there was allegedly somebody who was you know, straight
up missing. You know, they had this third victim that
was going to come forward and that person was unresponsive
and it doesn't appear as going to testify, and you know,
I guess this week again we're going to see more.

Speaker 3 (18:53):
Well, what's your opinion. Are we going to see more
of the.

Speaker 2 (18:55):
Same of more victims, or are we going to see
more people in Diddy's inner circle?

Speaker 3 (19:02):
And where are the celebrities?

Speaker 2 (19:04):
You know, we've heard so much about these big names
that we're going to be associated with this trial. Was
that just pretend to get attention or is that still
something that's around the corner or are.

Speaker 3 (19:15):
They going to be like witnesses for the defense? Right?
Oh that is great.

Speaker 4 (19:20):
I mean I can't imagine listen, like Jake, like, I
mean just stroying a name like jay Can you imagine
like jay Z testifying for Didy.

Speaker 3 (19:27):
I can't as Kusher just.

Speaker 4 (19:30):
Because Michael Myers, Like what I just I can't imagine
any of them being like, oh yeah, I'll testify for you,
like I just as a character witness or something.

Speaker 3 (19:39):
I just can't imagine it.

Speaker 2 (19:40):
I would have to imagine the level of lawyers that
are at play behind the scenes to make sure names
do not get mentioned and people are not dragged into this,
you know, because the illusion has always been that allegedly
there are people on video, and you know, there's tapes
of well known celebrities, perhaps you know, performing in some
of these how much money?

Speaker 3 (20:00):
You know what I mean? How much? And who would
you pay it to?

Speaker 4 (20:04):
Even I don't even know, Like, I can't imagine that
any amount of money would keep anybody out of this.
I mean, this is the United States government right prosecuted.
I just I don't know, but I guess we'll see.

Speaker 5 (20:15):
Well, speaking of the prosecution. In addition to playing videos
of the freak offs during Jane's testimony, Jane also testified
that two times did he ask her to bring packages
of drugs from California to Miami in her check luggage.
She wasn't comfortable to do this. But this also goes
to the government's case of racketeering, conspiracy, and other charges

(20:40):
and forcing victims into actions they otherwise would have never done.

Speaker 2 (20:44):
And this is where KK comes in right about here,
because she was a part of this, allegedly, allegedly allegedly.
She also has been cited in several of the civil
lawsuits set against him. But again, she's considered the Glane
Maxwell of this if you were likening this to Epstein,
but if they're you know, getting prescription drugs under bad names,

(21:06):
or having people mule prescriptions across borders, all of that
not looking good and married.

Speaker 4 (21:13):
That could be a predicate act for Rico, right, Remember,
of course you need two predicate acts, and drug trafficking
is one of them.

Speaker 3 (21:21):
That's right.

Speaker 5 (21:22):
And then other big testimonies that already happened were Eddie Garcia.
I think most of us probably remember that really incendiary
video of Didy beating his ex girlfriend Cassie Ventura in
a hotel where he's holding a towel with one hand.
So that video got squashed because partially of a man

(21:42):
named Eddi Garcia. He was a former security supervisor at
the Intercontinental Hotel where this happened. And did he paid
one hundred thousand dollars to get that video removed he
worked for a while.

Speaker 2 (21:56):
I mean he gets immunity. I see, yeah, he got
It's just awful.

Speaker 4 (22:00):
That to me is so awful, especially like what was
on the video, Like how could you not like callall somebody,
Like how could you sleep at night being like oh
I got fifty grand?

Speaker 3 (22:09):
It's terrible.

Speaker 7 (22:10):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (22:11):
Well, coming up on True Crime tonight, we're going to
be talking about the alleged Long Island serial killer with
Corey Abraham, who developed the upcoming documentary. And I'm so
excited about this. In the eleven o'clock hour, we're gonna
be talking about Brian Coberger's defense team. They've called new witnesses,
all from his hometown.

Speaker 3 (22:28):
What do they know?

Speaker 4 (22:29):
And the author who literally wrote the book on list.
Stick with us True Crime tonight.

Speaker 2 (22:43):
Back to this deep dive we've been promising about the
Long Island serial Killer. If you haven't been following this case,
buckle up because we have some mighty fine company with us.
Corey Abraham joining us now also head of Unscripted at VERSINT.
She developed this project to the documentary that's air on Tuesday,
June tenth on Peacock called the Gilgo Beach Killer House

(23:05):
of Secrets. Welcome Corey, thank you, so nice to.

Speaker 7 (23:11):
Talk to you.

Speaker 3 (23:12):
So you have me, you have body, and you have Courtney.

Speaker 7 (23:15):
So is nice to meet. Very nice to Okay, I mean,
I'm so excited to be here. We have to we
have so much talk about.

Speaker 2 (23:25):
So we were literally just talking about this all morning.
First of all, the trailer looks amazing. So your doc
comes out just for clarity next Tuesday. That's just in
forty eight hours, everybody, and you have this very unique
access the trailer looks.

Speaker 3 (23:39):
You know, sol, I'm so excited.

Speaker 4 (23:40):
I literally I I message I cannot wait to watch
this documentary. In fact, I might be sick that night,
you guys, I might have to take the night off
to watch this.

Speaker 7 (23:47):
Document You might be able to go on the radio. No. Yeah,
by the way, I literally have seen so many cuts
of it, and I'm like, do I stay home till
I just watch it again by myself? Yes, it is
actually really shocking. Well, first of all, the whole story
is shocking. But yeah, I'll let you guys out because
I can. I'll just go off, you know that.

Speaker 3 (24:07):
Well, let's start with a little setup, right court.

Speaker 5 (24:10):
Yeah, So for people who don't know exactly precisely who
we're talking about, there's a couple of updates on the
Long Island serial killer. So, just about a week ago,
the New York Post published an article about a woman
she recently came forward and said she had a creepy
encounter with the alleged killer, Rex Huerman. She's twenty one
years old. Her name is Caylin Morales, and she was

(24:31):
riding the Long Island Railroad after a date when Hueerman
plopped down next to her. Despite the train being almost empty.
And he was arrested only twelve days later, So we're
going to dig into that a little more. But yeah,
and as a double reminder, Rex Huerman he was arrested
in twenty twenty three on suspicion of allegedly being the

(24:54):
killer responsible for eleven murders in the Go Go Beach
area of Long Island, happened between nineteen ninety six and
twenty ten. He has been specifically linked to seven of
the murders and is a suspect into all the while
living the life of just sort of a family man, architect.

Speaker 3 (25:13):
Kind of like a boring guy, right, Yes.

Speaker 2 (25:16):
No commute very day on the Long Island railroad totally
with his daughter.

Speaker 7 (25:20):
Really, yeah, yes, that's what he did. He did. He
got on the Long Island Railroad every single day. His daughter,
I think was a reception and set his architecture firm
and he like did the full on out like guy
from Long Island, average guy takes the train and takes
the train home. Life picks him up from the train station,
has dinner on the table for him. And this has

(25:43):
been going on for like god knows how many years.

Speaker 4 (25:45):
Well and speaking of his wife has kind of stayed
by his side this entire time, right, like she is,
you know, this is her husband, She's going to stand
by him. And that's kind of what the documentary kind
of goes into a little bit, right Cory, Well.

Speaker 7 (25:58):
I mean, look, I don't want to give too much
about should watch it. I think that a lot of
what Asa says is shocking and a lot of what
I mean everybody in the documentary says is shocking because
it's you know what, this is one of those cases
that there have been countless documentaries about the List and
Long Island serial Killer, and you know, we're always very

(26:20):
careful to like what's new, what's different? Why now when
we're deciding on like what we should do as far
as feature documentaries or even like multi part series. And
the second I got a phone call saying, you know,
also wants to do a documentary and you know, feature
her perspective as well as her children. I was like, uh,

(26:41):
sign me up like first, like first, and I like
jumped on the plane. And so it is really really
interesting and compelling the documentary. But the predicament that she
is in and her daughter is in and her son
is in is unlike anything that like unless you're parent
is a serial killer and you find out later in life,

(27:03):
it is really hard to grapple with, Like it is
a very very complicated base to be in and to
live in. And it's like, wait a minute, you mean
to tell me that the guy that I've been living
with and married you for, you know, twenty something years
is a serial killer? How can that be? How can
it be? And that's really a lot of what Asa
goes into, like how is it possible that I didn't know?

(27:25):
And how is it possible that this happened? And so
I think she's questioning a lot and I think I
think a lot of viewers will be really surprised by
her and her POV. But again, we've we started shooting
right when he basically right when he was convicted, not

(27:46):
he wasn't convicted right when he was charged, Okay, right,
and so and I mean originally we had actually we
were doing like a fast turnaround doc, like hey, let's
just do a quickie. And then why we were making
it and had already started production. We got I got
the song callbot Asa and Family, and I was like,

(28:06):
oh my god, we need to dig a beat now.
And it's not this fast turnaround, and now we need
to take our time, and we really need to sort
of do it justice. I mean, first and foremost, a
lot of people have died, and it is a really
hard storytell because it's like how it is. There's a
lot of victims and a lot of family members, and

(28:28):
a lot of them are utterly devastated. Even though it
goes back to you know nine, you know, nineteen ninety six,
I think is the first time. But again, he has
not been convicted or charged for all of those crimes.
I think he's actually charged for seven, and originally he
was only charged for four. And while we were shooting,
like more charges kept on happening, so we were like,

(28:51):
even within ourselves were it was just more about wait
a minute, who is who is rex Urann? Who is
the wife? What does she know? Like she must know something,
And I mean I've I went back and forth a
few times, but I'd have to tell you I really
don't think she knew anything, Like I really don't, and
I don't think her daughter knew anything. However, it'll be

(29:13):
really interesting. Oh my god, I shouldn't have given that away.
I should have let you all decide what we're.

Speaker 3 (29:18):
Gonna watch it anyway.

Speaker 2 (29:19):
I'm so excited to like even because that what you're describing,
Corey is the intersection. I think that, yeah, we're all
so curious about, right, is the idea that somebody who
you love or you care for or you know in
a certain way can really be living a simultaneous existence.
And you know what, maybe you have a spidy sense
about something where maybe something feels off but that's like

(29:43):
so generic you don't or meaning that you're really clueless exactly,
or that's even more pain in a way, or you're
clueless exactly. So I think that's so human and just
being able to explore that, I think is so interesting.

Speaker 3 (29:55):
And you were actually in the house.

Speaker 7 (29:56):
I was in the house. But wait before we get
to the house. I mean, it's alleged that Rex has
been killing for a lot longer than he's even been
married to Asa, and he may have picked her because
she was somebody who would not know, would not like
and by the way she's she had a rough life,

(30:18):
you know, like she she also had a first marriage
that was that was not necessarily positive, and she was
he was her hero, like he was her hero. But
it really is very disturbing the whole story. But I
will tell you hearing all perspectives of it, like even
his best friend we spoke with, it is really yeah,
we spooked him to he has a friend's hunting buddy this.

Speaker 3 (30:49):
Agency call.

Speaker 7 (30:53):
But but yeah, to answer your question, I was in
the house before the before he was charged with more
than four I think, like, so we started shooting, we
go to the house, we do the first interview with ASA,
and we're like in the house, my goodness, like walking
around like it literally looked like a bombshell hit it,

(31:16):
and like you can't t why is that?

Speaker 3 (31:18):
Why is it so messy?

Speaker 7 (31:20):
Well? I think this is really a good question, like
are they slightly hoarders? I actually don't know. But police
had come and literally like flipped over everything and taken
off every single door, removed every mattress. What it is
like they had to do their investigation and they didn't
move out. They stayed there.

Speaker 2 (31:40):
Really yeah, so yeah, and there's two children, and I
guess you know, listen, it sounds like were you there
before or after? Because then they had gone back again,
and you know, listen, it sounds like some very scary
things allegedly potentially may have happened in that home?

Speaker 3 (31:55):
Did it good vibes? Bad vibes? Do you scent? Do
you have a feeling for that?

Speaker 7 (31:59):
I mean we were there before there was any any
conversation about what happened in the home, and so we
were like in the backyard and like we went down
to the basement and like you know, there was no
doors and we did actually have my coworker had used
the rossroom and she went to the basement and she
got a splinter and I was like, you can't leave,

(32:20):
like your DNN Like I was like, I was like,
this is bad nude. I was like, we gotta get
out of here. But but yeah, and by the way,
like you do feel for these people, like it's awful,
And then it's really hard to feel for them because
there are people whose family members are dead, and it's like,

(32:43):
like you got it's a it's a very fine line.
When you're making a documentary like this. It's like you're
telling their their truth, right, this is their truth? Yea,
And they also feel terrible, Like I also feels terrible
that that somebody killed all of these women. Now, whether
she believes whether it's her husband or not, you're gonna

(33:03):
have to latch the death.

Speaker 2 (33:04):
You're gonna stay with us for this next segment? Can
you stay with us for one more segment?

Speaker 6 (33:10):
Yeah?

Speaker 7 (33:10):
Of course I'm here.

Speaker 3 (33:11):
I can't get enough. Are you there, Corey Well? In
the meantime, yay, I'm not you have no.

Speaker 7 (33:18):
I had you on mute because I was like coughing,
and I was like, what's gonna happen?

Speaker 3 (33:21):
Oh no, oh, my sickness is spreading. We're all calling.

Speaker 7 (33:31):
Yes, ma'am.

Speaker 5 (33:32):
What what the heck? It's Court, Hello, Courtney Court. What
the heck was it like while you were in production
from when it went to four victims alleged to the.

Speaker 2 (33:43):
Seven Wow, major, you're in the bee hive at that
point when real things are happening.

Speaker 3 (33:49):
When the hornet's nest gets shook, basically.

Speaker 7 (33:51):
Right, well, yes, and of course, like you know, listen,
when you work in true crime and documentaries, and you
guys notice because you do this all the time. It's
like you have your you know, the the second something happens,
your phone rings, right like I'm on Google alerts for
like every single thing. I have never been a part
of the documentary. With every moment I turned around, I

(34:12):
was like, and another one and oh my god, he
could be connected to this one. I mean again, listen,
there have been a lot of documentaries that were.

Speaker 9 (34:20):
A lot of speculation about about connecting a lot of
these people because again, you know, a lot of these
women have been murdered for a long time, and there
was a lot of connection. The families have connected, you know,
with each other.

Speaker 7 (34:33):
But to have like DNA of or familial DNA on
victims that you know, have been totally like unsolved for
such a long time, that was shocking, you know. And
the arrest of is of Rex was completely shocking.

Speaker 3 (34:51):
I don't know, he came out of nowhere. WHOA did
that come out in nowhere?

Speaker 7 (34:56):
It came out of nowhere. And you know, a lot
of a lot of the questions that I ask and
the documentary asss like why did this take so long?
You know what I mean? Because it did. Really it
takes a long time for to figure it out. And
there was a lot of different you know, police running
to the county and it was like it was a
lot going on also at the time in Long Island,

(35:16):
and there have been other serial killers on Long Island.
I mean, let's face it, risk, I mean, it is
it is. There's quite a few of them. But but
I will say that that the fact that really that
you know, I mean DNA today obviously is incredible. You know,
the the company offoram who you know is connected. I

(35:38):
know they are, I know they are really, I mean
of everything, there is not a case that the middlemans
on our front line is And every time I do
something when through a coproduction to him, like are you
using a outroom? But but I will say that the
shocking nature of it is like you're in it. It's
a it's a cold case, and it starts to like

(36:00):
heat up more and more like by the day. So
I'm like, now, like you know, we're waiting for a
trial date, and there's a lot of speculation like will
he plea? Like will he plea? Or won't he plea?
Will he go to trial? Won't he go to trial?

Speaker 2 (36:14):
He will go to trial. I'm so curious, like what's
he got to lose at this point?

Speaker 3 (36:18):
Right?

Speaker 2 (36:18):
And you know he seems like he's so above it. Listen, Quirky,
I hate to have to wrap you up.

Speaker 3 (36:24):
It was a joy to have.

Speaker 2 (36:25):
Now you're gonna have to keep coming back and Tuesday,
everybody June tenth, make sure you're tuning in. I can't
wait the Gilgo Beach Killer House of Secrets. We'll be
right back more on the Brian Coburger case. This is
true crime tonight. We talk true crime all the time.

(36:51):
We've said it many times. This is the summer of trials,
unbelievable ones, the likes of which we haven't really seen yet,
let alone back to back. And also Brian Coburger, he's
updated his witness list to include five people from his hometown.
If you're not familiar with the Brian Coberger case, he's
been accused of murdering for college students in the Idaho

(37:14):
College Murderers is how it's been referred to. And that
trial is set for August eleventh. There's been a lot
of back and forth and sounds like there's been a
continuance being discussed and body you have the update there.

Speaker 4 (37:28):
Yeah, So the case summary, So the Idaho Judicial website,
if you go to the if you go to that website,
there's a case summary. It's just the PDF and it
just lists all the documents in like chronological order that
are coming you know, that are on the docket.

Speaker 3 (37:41):
Basically, while there's.

Speaker 4 (37:42):
One that's been added I think I think it happened
late Friday, and it's basically the State of Idaho's response
to the defense asking for a continuance. Okay, so a
continuance is we're not ready for trial. It needs to
be pushed back right now. It's scheduled for August eleventh,
I think August eleventh, and the defense is saying we
need more time. And you know, this is the state's response. Now,

(38:05):
the hearing is on June eighteenth, and it is going
to be able to be viewed by the public. So
I am hoping that this document gives us a little
bit of insight into what the state is going to
be arguing at that hearing. Additionally, today, you guys, today,
June eighth, it's Kaylee Jade Day. Now Kaylee, Kaylee Gonsolve.

(38:26):
This is a victim of this crime. And you know,
on her birthday every year, her family asks that people
do what you love, okay, so and her honor. So, like,
maybe you like to surf, I don't know, go surfing,
post a picture to social media and tag Kaylee Jade Day.
Live your life because you know what, it's too short.

(38:48):
You need to live it. So I just thought I
wanted to bring it up because it is it is
her day to.

Speaker 2 (38:52):
Day and people are posting photographs and stuff of them
doing their best day. I'm glad you bring that up
because Kaylee Gonsolved and her best friend Madison Mogan, they
were buds, you know, they grew up together.

Speaker 3 (39:04):
They were like sisters.

Speaker 2 (39:06):
You know, if you've seen that iconic photo of the
four of them sort of on their shoulders looking so
happy and alive, you know, they're the two blonde ones.

Speaker 4 (39:16):
And Kaylie posted that to her Instagram that day, right,
and she said something like, I couldn't ask for better
people in my life like she was just she was
a special person, joyful, very joyful, and very blessed. She
knew she was blessed.

Speaker 3 (39:30):
And it's a good.

Speaker 5 (39:31):
Time to also remember the other two victims, of course,
Xana Kernodle and Ethan Schapin, who also lost their lives,
and just as a reminder for people who aren't super converse,
and Bryan Colberger, a former PhD candidate in criminology. He
is facing the death penalty for allegedly fatally stabbing these
four beautiful victims in the prime of their lives.

Speaker 3 (39:53):
And they were such good friends.

Speaker 2 (39:54):
And of course there were two surviving roommates, thankfully, and
you know all of these live minute details or in
this case, you know, the defense is now calling five
witnesses from the alleged killer, Brian Coberger's childhood or his
just from his life that we really haven't heard from before.

Speaker 3 (40:13):
What do you guys make of that?

Speaker 4 (40:14):
Well, I mean, I think they're probably going to be
like character witnesses of some kind. I mean, they certainly
they're not going to have him any events of the crime.
I don't I can't imagine. I mean, they were in
they live in Pennsylvania, right, These witnesses that are being called,
they know him from him prior to him leaving and
going to Washington State University. So I imagine it's just

(40:37):
going to be kind of character witnesses. I don't think
they're going to be super substantial. One of them, one
of them is the guy that sold them the Alantra.

Speaker 3 (40:45):
Isn't that interesting?

Speaker 2 (40:46):
I mean I thought that was pretty compelling too, because
again we're seeing somebody at such a specific cross section. Also,
I think somebody who he used to box with, right,
I guess you know, he went from being bullied for
his weight to you know, dropping a bunch of weight
and getting really hyper into fitness.

Speaker 3 (41:04):
And maybe that's part of that.

Speaker 2 (41:06):
Story that gives a little backstory to his I guess life.
But does it matter? But yeah, it seems late in
the game to be adding so many people.

Speaker 5 (41:14):
Well, I think it's also worth remembering that all these
people were his whole life. Actually, so Brian Colberger only
moved from Pennsylvania. I think it was only months, if
I'm not mistake.

Speaker 4 (41:28):
Yeah, it was Darren, like June or July. That's right
before the poll party, right before the growth, right because
school has just started and this was his first year
at WSU.

Speaker 3 (41:38):
Yeah, he had just knew there.

Speaker 5 (41:40):
Yeah, so these would be anyone they would pull, would
be the people who knew him for the first what
twenty seven or so years of his life. But I
don't know if the defense's goal, it's probably to try
and humanize him, I would guess.

Speaker 3 (41:53):
I'm guessing, And it's a tough call.

Speaker 2 (41:55):
This is a tough case in general because it has
gotten so much public attention. Again, are is it appropriate
that he's kind of the guy you know in the
media's eyes, Is that you know, a tell that he's
being targeted or is the evidence just mounting against him?
And it's really hard to deny it. Whether it's leaked
or otherwise, you can't really unsee some of this. And

(42:16):
if you haven't been following, there was a dateline leak
allegedly that you know, had some telling stuff in it
that doesn't particularly look great for Brian Coberger, the accused.
And listen, at the core of it, this is a
guy that was studying murder. Does that matter or does
that make him an easy person to point to because
it makes headlines, you know, you know, at the end of.

Speaker 4 (42:38):
The day, I often wonder if that, you know, I
go back and forth, like, does his you know, studying
in this specific subject have anything to do with this?

Speaker 3 (42:50):
It seems as he.

Speaker 2 (42:51):
Would be better at it, you know, he gets some
things really poorly. He's bringing your phone on a killing
spree and going back thereafter and leaving by kind a
knife sheath seemed pretty messy if you're allegedly, allegedly, allegedly,
if you're you know, an assassin who's been studying it
and practicing. Again, I'm not discounting that that could very

(43:11):
well be the case. I'm just saying it's all so confusing,
and you know, our hearts again go out to Kaylee
Gonzalveez's parents in Madison Mogan's parents and it's awful and
Xenikernodle and Ethan Shapen, I mean, interesting as it is
to unpack it. It is just such a crazy crime
in such an overkill. It just it's hard to wrap

(43:33):
your brain around.

Speaker 5 (43:34):
It, truly is. So I want to get into some
of the other people who they are calling. So Stephanie,
you mentioned someone from the boxing gym, and what else
do we know about from there?

Speaker 2 (43:47):
Two of them I think are still kind of anonymous
that it hasn't been released quite yet. The boxing person,
also somebody from his school. It's interesting because Courtney, you
and I have interviewed so many people in and around
this case over the years because we did the podcast
and we were also working on the documentary, and.

Speaker 3 (44:07):
People say he was really shy, he was odd.

Speaker 2 (44:10):
Again in retrospect, you know how there's that person that's
somehow oh yeah, when I'm really forced to think about
it looking back, they were they were really strange, or
they were really he was pretty ordinary by all accounts,
until you know, later in high school when he seemingly
bumped into some trouble. He had some complaints against him
for being kind of air quotes odd, but we don't

(44:34):
know much more than that that would point to him
being this ready to kill.

Speaker 4 (44:40):
Right, his online presence is pretty skeleton too, Like, there's
not a whole lot, you know, we have the discussion
forum where he's talking about his visual snow in depth,
but it doesn't really give us any insight into who
he was. Right the Reddit survey we saw online. My
point is there isn't a lot online for us to
go to either get to know who Brian was like,

(45:02):
what was he like, what what were his interests? What
was he like as a friend. We really just don't
know all that stuff yet we don't.

Speaker 5 (45:11):
And body, you brought up the Reddit survey, can you
remind everybody what that?

Speaker 4 (45:16):
Yeah, So there was a survey online and it was
supposed to Reddit under I can't remember the account name,
but it was authenticated to be Brian Coberger's account. And
this account was basically saying, you know, I'm in graduate
school and I'm studying for criminology. If you've committed a
violent crime, can you fill out the survey, right, and

(45:39):
so then you click the survey and the questions were
like how did you feel before you committed the crime?
And they were like they were questions about like preparation
and feeling and what you felt like after even they
were really like detail and now listen reading it knowing
he was a criminology student, I don't really know if
it's all that weird, right or horror?

Speaker 2 (46:00):
An accused killer? An accused killer might dad he claims
his innocence or was he trying to remember? In the
dateline leaks, we learned that he was googling, like, you know,
why am I so different? Or can I be normal?
I can't remember the exact frame VERG. But that's the
juxtaposition of it.

Speaker 4 (46:17):
Was he trying to validate his feelings through this survey,
Like am I feeling this way because I need to
prep for this crime? Will I feel better after it's done?
Am I going to get the satisfaction I think I
need by committing these crimes?

Speaker 3 (46:32):
I don't know. It's interesting too.

Speaker 2 (46:34):
In that survey he was kind of he was kind
of classifying the type of personality traits that you know,
somebody who would want to commit a crime. Would have,
and I always thought that was curious too. Is that
him sort of diagnosing himself with some sort of psychopathy?

Speaker 3 (46:50):
Am I saying that correctly? Psychopathy?

Speaker 2 (46:52):
I think psychopay you know, clearly not a doctor, but
you know, is he is he kind of questioning is
this me? Or is it possible that I'm a good
person or I can push through this? Like maybe there
was kind of this Sophie's choice of sorts.

Speaker 3 (47:06):
I think he's very self aware.

Speaker 5 (47:08):
I remember one of the questions you were referring to
earlier body on the dateline as it came out, assuming
it is true, was it was something like can a
sociopath appear like they have empathy? It was along those lines.
Those aren't the words, but I mean really just spelling
out what seemed potentially to be.

Speaker 4 (47:27):
A struggle, right, And I feel like that survey kind
of goes to that maybe or maybe it was like
a legitimate assignment, you know, like is he trying to
validate Yeah, this is the path I'm supposed to be
on because I have the same feelings as my survey
respondents do. Because he was asking people that committed crimes
to do.

Speaker 2 (47:45):
It right, and like a psychopath by definition lacks empathy, right,
so they don't have the empathy that's required to not
commit a crime, you know, because you have compassion for
humans and victims, you would never So maybe he was
at that cross roads.

Speaker 5 (48:01):
Listen, I'm so curious to see what will be coming
out in the trial and when the trial will even begin.
We're going to have more on the Long Island serial killer.
We're having author Robert Banfelder, who will share some specific
details that other people don't know about.

Speaker 2 (48:15):
If you haven't been following this case, just very briefly,
Rex Humorman is a sixty one year old architect who
has been accused of murdering seven women he's being associated
with at this point, and you know, the list continues
to grow. He claims his innocence, his family claims his innocence,

(48:36):
and his trial is still upcoming. But it's an interesting
unpack simply because he just seemed to be a regular
guy living amongst us, and if what he's accused of
is true, you know, he is in fact a monster.
So first and foremost allowed me to introduce the author
of really the best selling book called the Gilgo Beach
Serial Killer Case. Does Rex Humorman Rain King of Murder

(49:00):
and Mayhem. You can get that on Amazon or at
your local bookstore. So, Robert, thank you for joining us.

Speaker 6 (49:07):
Well, thank you Stephanie.

Speaker 3 (49:09):
So nice to have you.

Speaker 2 (49:11):
I you know, listen, we wish we was on a
topic that was a little less you know, difficult, but
we're so grateful to have your insight. So curious, you know,
just first and foremost, why did you choose this particular
case to write the book about?

Speaker 6 (49:25):
Well? First off, I initially wrote two fictional accounts of
the Gilgo Beach homicide case titled The Long Island Serial
Killer Murders, Gilgo Beach and Beyond. That was followed by
Snuff Stuff, the latter of which covered Gilgo Beach, Oak Beach, Manorville,
Long Island, and Atlantic City, New Jersey. Once authorities had

(49:50):
a prime suspect in their sites and arrested Rex Ewerman,
I wrote two non fictional accounts titled The Long Island
Long Awaited, a rest of Long Island serial Killer Rex Human,
followed by my next and last book, The Gilgo Beach
Serial Killer Case.

Speaker 2 (50:11):
You literally are the guys, so you've been with this
case since really for years now?

Speaker 6 (50:16):
Conception, Yes, oh my.

Speaker 3 (50:18):
Goodness, are you from the area.

Speaker 6 (50:20):
I assume I'm in Riverhead, New York. As a matter
of fact, I can look out the window and can
see the back window and see where Rex you were
Men is confined.

Speaker 3 (50:34):
Wow.

Speaker 2 (50:35):
Wow, literally right in your backyard.

Speaker 6 (50:37):
In the Riverhead jail. Literally wow. So I will be
going to the trial and you know that should be fascinating.

Speaker 3 (50:49):
Oh.

Speaker 5 (50:49):
Absolutely. And question how does Rex Hwerman compare to other
serial killers in terms of sort of behavior and background?

Speaker 6 (50:59):
M rex Ewermen, I maintain, is a prolific serial killer,
having murdered scores of individuals, both women and men, not
just the seven murders for which he is charged. Like
a good many serial killers, rex Ewermen is an experimenter,

(51:23):
changing his modus operende as a means of misdirecting law
enforcement examples. I believe Youermen employed a polythera of methods
and materials to terminate his victims, such as strangulation, decapitation,
this memberment that is head, hands, legs, arms, feet, as

(51:46):
many as sixteen body parts Stephanie wow Arson, gardenshot beatings, rape, torture,
hanging night things, power sow and having their bodies apped
in either plastic burl app or blankets.

Speaker 2 (52:04):
Oh my goodness, because you know what, Robert, to your point,
so am I getting this right? They recently, like the
last time they were excavating that front lawn at the
house that he and his family lived. Rex, there is
sort of this assertion that there may have been very
hideous silence of the lands type stuff that happened potentially

(52:25):
in that basement. You know, things that you're describing, chainsaws
and just memberments. It's unimaginable to believe that this person
could actually go to work the next day on the
Long Island Railroad.

Speaker 3 (52:38):
How does a person pull that off?

Speaker 6 (52:42):
Well, as far as just give me a second here
in terms of the town where Rex uer Men resides,
chainsaw us and that kind of business that didn't transpire
within the home that would be uh outside in areas

(53:02):
in other states in his travels.

Speaker 3 (53:05):
Unbelievable, Wow, unbelievable, Robert.

Speaker 4 (53:09):
Kaylin Taylor Morales, the woman that's come forward with this
this new story, what did.

Speaker 3 (53:15):
You make of that?

Speaker 5 (53:17):
Hmm?

Speaker 6 (53:18):
My answer to that is the sheer irony of the situation,
The fact that Kaylin Morales is sitting on a one
owned railroad next to the soon to be arrested serial
killer is absolutely chilling. Soon to be arrested in in

(53:38):
less than two weeks from that time, it's incredible. Yeah,
let me just add. Let me just add this had Kaitlin,
though it's highly unlikely. Had Caitlin engaged Rex, you were
mean in conversation and found him interesting instead of seeing
him as a quote unquote big but ugly white man,

(54:02):
as she related in her story when speaking to The
New York Post, Caitlin could have wound up as the
Rex Ewerman's victim, next victim.

Speaker 3 (54:13):
So I have another question for you, Robert. What do
you think?

Speaker 4 (54:17):
I'm so sorry? What do you think this case? Why
do you think it took so long to crack it
despite all the clues left behind?

Speaker 6 (54:25):
Undoubtedly undoubted least it was because of X Chief of
Police Jimmy Burke's interference concerning the Goggle Beach serial color case.
From its onset, imagine the FBI was thwarted from involving
itself in a notorious case because Jimmy Burke did not

(54:49):
want attention drawn to himself for several reasons. The Gilgel
Beach Oak Beach areas where Burke's stomping ground were Burke's
stomping grounds, and by that I mean places where the
police chief frequently conducted his unsavory practices. We learn of

(55:12):
his proclivities in procuring prostitutes and consuming drugs at cocaine
fueled sex parties in areas where the Gilgel Beach bodies
were found. It is a fact, this is surprising too many,
that Jimmy Burke operated a prostitution ring with a woman

(55:35):
while he was a police officer, as evidenced in that
the Eternal Affairs Bureau was pursuing those allegations relentlessly. And
let me add that the case could have been solved
years earlier when David Shaller, a friend slash pimp of

(55:56):
one of the victims, gave police a thirty accurate description
of Rex shrewermen and his vehicle six foot four inches tall,
two hundred and forty pounds ogre like looking and driving
a unique Chevy Avalanche pickup truck.

Speaker 3 (56:16):
What well, and by the way, he is.

Speaker 2 (56:18):
So noticeably large too, that we don't say that lightly.
He's a tremendous man. He's very large. He has a
very specific look. So you know, who knows what other
mayhem could have been avoided had that been pursued correctly,
and you know, the victim's moms really rallied together to
find justice.

Speaker 3 (56:38):
Wow, it's incredibly scandalous, Robert.

Speaker 5 (56:41):
Do you believe there are even possibly more victims that
haven't been connected yet?

Speaker 6 (56:48):
Many, many more. Rex Shrewerman had been in the position
of having worked as a prominent architect and expert building
code expert. These assignments took him to several states, affording
him a unique opportunity to operate in the open and

(57:09):
virtually uninterrupted within areas where scores of these murders occurred.
As an expert zoning analyst possessing an esoteric knowledge in
cutting through red tape, he was in constant, constant demand.
Were permits which allowed him to visit in an area before, during,

(57:32):
and after an inspection, gave him the perfect cover without
creating any suspicion.

Speaker 2 (57:38):
So, because he was an architect, he was going to
these locations. I never really wowed. I wonder, I never
really connected that top before.

Speaker 3 (57:45):
I wonder.

Speaker 4 (57:46):
I'm sure that they've looked at those travel times, right,
like they have to have a record of, like the
travel times where he went, you know, maybe looking at
you know, unsolved murders in those areas, Like, I'm sure
they're doing that, right, I'm sure they are.

Speaker 3 (58:00):
They have to be, have to.

Speaker 6 (58:01):
Be they are, But you know, I'm not getting any
kind of update on that. They're holding that close to
the best, you know, they have to on Wall Island. Here,
you know, we're dealing with seven and possibly I think
it's kind of late now, but I was wondering if
there was going to be an eighth one. But that's
eight out of God only knows how many. I would

(58:27):
venture to say. We're not talking even scores, but we're
talking probably like a hundred, maybe more one hundred Man
Felder and many many other people.

Speaker 3 (58:39):
Oh so you're not the only one saying That's what
I say.

Speaker 6 (58:43):
Prolific, Stephanie, I mean prolific. This guy is, you know, unbelievable.

Speaker 3 (58:50):
You're going to have, because this is going to be ongoing.

Speaker 2 (58:51):
You're going to have to stay with us, oh yet
and again and keep coming back and updating us regularly.

Speaker 4 (58:57):
Absolutely so, thank you so much, Robert Benfel. And again,
you're listening to True Crime tonight, we're talking, we're going
to be talking more about this, and please don't forget
to call us at eight eight eight thirty one. Crime
and thoughts on any of Tonight's stories Keep a ray
here on true Crime Tonight where we're talking true crime
all the time.

Speaker 2 (59:24):
So the trials of the summer, the cases of the Summer,
I guess I should say, you know, these are the
ones that we'll be tracking closely.

Speaker 3 (59:32):
Body, what's the number one on your list?

Speaker 4 (59:36):
Well, the number one on my list is Idaho, Brian
co Oberber. That's going to be the trial that I
am tuning into every like literally living and dying by
you know, sleeping, eating, breathing everything, Idaho. Additionally, Luigi, Yeah,
I'm like really interested in Luigi, if you guys. I
mean I've said this before, but I'm like super into

(59:56):
like the manifesto, right, I am all about a manifest
Give me the manifesto to like analyze and digest. I'm
all about that. And Luigi had a manifesto, right, and
we got new parts of it. We just got new
parts of this manifesto and I think we're gonna probably

(01:00:16):
deep but dive that on Monday.

Speaker 3 (01:00:18):
Yeah, No, Monday Manifesto. Monday, Monday Manifesto, Monday, Monday. That
is the new thing.

Speaker 2 (01:00:23):
All summer, because there's actually quite a few to compare
there is, that's right, And.

Speaker 3 (01:00:28):
I'm really into like forensic linguistics.

Speaker 4 (01:00:30):
Like listen, I'm a layman one hundred percent, but I
really like picking up part these manifestos and finding commonalities
and like, if you can find a commonality with a
different manifesto, maybe they took inspiration and what was their
motive and you know what I mean, Like it's all
just like super fascinating to me. So I really listen,
I don't love murder, okay, but I love a manifesto,

(01:00:52):
all right. I will digest a manifesto until I'm blue
in the face.

Speaker 5 (01:00:56):
And it is interesting with manifestos, how as you said,
they do seem to somehow connect and there can be
almost a feedback loop of one to the other, similarly
to how many serial killers go off of oh well,
this was the other one.

Speaker 4 (01:01:13):
Like a blueprint like to your point to Courtney, Brian
Coberger searching for Ted Bundy is is Luigi's manifesto mention
of Ted Kazinski? Of course, famously, the unibomber is that
kind of like a Brian Coburger goougling Ted Bundy is.

Speaker 3 (01:01:31):
That kind of a thing.

Speaker 2 (01:01:32):
Doesn't it kind of also give a little bit of
a window potentially into their mental state, in their just
general mental health.

Speaker 4 (01:01:39):
Right, Well, maybe I don't know, because, like I am
super interested in the uniboomer or manifesto.

Speaker 3 (01:01:45):
I thought it was like brilliant.

Speaker 4 (01:01:47):
Now, of course, Ted Kazinski was an evil person who
killed many people, very very innocent people for his manifesto,
you know, and he mentioned this in this manifesto. But
like Luigi, what we just learned, was really conscious of
that in his manifesto. He was like, listen, Ted Kazinski was,
you know, he didn't care he killed innocence. I'm not

(01:02:07):
going to do that. Even though I believe Ted Kazinski
to be I'm paraphrasing you guys. Even though I believe
Ted Kazinsky to be an evil man, his manifesto was brilliant.
Like Luigi took the words out of my mouth, and
it kind of freaks me out a little bit. I'm like,
you know, big, But Luig is also as a scholar.
You know, he went to an Ivy League university. I mean, again,
you're right about the manifesto in the Unibomber of It too,

(01:02:30):
which is so scary because even just the little tidbits
you were telling me about earlier today, which of course
we'll discuss more on Manifesto Monday, was scary, Yeah, because
some of that stuff is actually happened.

Speaker 3 (01:02:43):
It's happening.

Speaker 4 (01:02:44):
It's almost like teed Keazinky kind of like saw into
the future a little bit and was like trying to
warn us, but he did it in such a terrible way.

Speaker 3 (01:02:51):
He blew up innocent people.

Speaker 4 (01:02:53):
Luigi makes note of that in this new these new
manifesto pages that we have, and he's like, listen, I
don't want to kill innocent people. Like he was very
he thought about it, like he considered it, but he
was like, no, I'm not going to do that. I
wanted I want it to be very targeted. I want
it to be newsworthy. I want people to talk about
these problems, but I don't want to kill innocent people. Now,

(01:03:15):
it is could be argued, and it is, you know,
factually true that Brian Thompson was an innocent person right right.
His victim, Luigi Maggioni. If if you haven't been following along,
Luigi is accused of gunning down Brian Thompson. He was
the United Healthcare CEO and that's what he's being charged with.
And so yeah, and he left a manifesto. So that's

(01:03:36):
like one of my one of the cases. I'm going
to be following a lot this summer.

Speaker 5 (01:03:40):
What else is on your kind of summer trial watch list?

Speaker 4 (01:03:44):
I mean, well, Karen Reid, obviously that's wrapping up though,
so I don't know how long we're going to be
able to get into the summer.

Speaker 3 (01:03:50):
But well, you know, I mean there is.

Speaker 2 (01:03:52):
Going to be fallout on that case on all sides,
no matter what the verdict. Do was his house? Yeah,
it's it's a tough one. And I go to bed
feeling so divided after our heated conversations about it.

Speaker 4 (01:04:05):
I do too, and I but I really like talking
with people that I disagree with because it helps me learn,
you know, like you know, I might I might have
missed that in the hearing and you might remember and
I'll be like, oh, that's I forgot all about that.

Speaker 3 (01:04:19):
Or sometimes my bias.

Speaker 4 (01:04:20):
And we're all guilty of this, Right, your bias can
like convince you that what your theory is is true
because you're taking in information that only confirms that bias.

Speaker 2 (01:04:30):
Right, So true, such a problem, kind of funny thing
on the Karen Read front. You know, she gets so
much criticism for being glib or she looks smiley as
she's entering the courtroom, and it kind of occurred to
me too. I'm not making excuses for that, because that
must be maddening if you're on John O'Keefe's family or
if you're on his side of this. But she has

(01:04:51):
all of these supporters basically, right, So all of these
supporters in an army of them, you know, and they
all wear pink, and they they cheer her on, and
you know, she gets lot of fuel from that. Now,
what is she supposed to do is she's not supposed
to acknowledge these cheerleaders of sorts that have been showing
up every single day to support her, and she's happy
to see them. She knows many of them by name.

(01:05:12):
They this is the second trial, they were there for
the first one. So it is this sort of fanfare
element that probably causes her to smile at them because
they're familiar faces. And then that footage gets used really
frankly against her because she seems like she's being insensitive
in glib or eating up the fame.

Speaker 3 (01:05:32):
It's like it's kind of a.

Speaker 2 (01:05:33):
Lose lose the documentarators that are trying to help you
or nobody.

Speaker 4 (01:05:37):
She doesn't do herself any favors though, because like in
the documentary she's in the car and she's like, I'm
gonna be on the cover of Vogue.

Speaker 3 (01:05:42):
I mean, it's just close. It's the part that everybody.

Speaker 4 (01:05:45):
But the good news for Karen Reid though is that
she's not doing that in front of the jury.

Speaker 3 (01:05:50):
True, and that's durially here outside. You know, they could
hear the supporters and by the.

Speaker 2 (01:05:54):
Way, sometimes that the family of John O'Keefe would enter
the courtroom and they would get like booed or they
would have negative reaction to say to the victim's family.
Keith was a saft by everybody's standards. He seemed like
a lovely, super loved guy.

Speaker 3 (01:06:12):
By all accounts. That is not up for conversation. So
that's kind of gross.

Speaker 5 (01:06:17):
And I have to say I think that the people
who are you know, the free Karen Reid, with the
pink and the et cetera, I feel like she's almost
become a token in what really is their movement, which
is fight potential police corruption.

Speaker 3 (01:06:31):
Which I think is important to do.

Speaker 4 (01:06:34):
So she's like a symbol to them, yes, right, And
I think I think that moment is so important, you know,
like again, this is Boston.

Speaker 3 (01:06:42):
I love Boston.

Speaker 2 (01:06:43):
By that, I love Boston. I love shout out to Boston. Yeah,
I love Boston. But yeah, it is she's a symbol.

Speaker 3 (01:06:50):
Right.

Speaker 4 (01:06:50):
So whether or not she's guilty or not, I don't
even know if they care. I think they just want
to be pa.

Speaker 2 (01:06:56):
Make some noise, and they want to make some noise.
It is like right out of Central Casting too. Like
not to make a comparison to a film, because of
course this is somebody's real life, but you could picture
the Ben Affleck version that he directs with every single
cop that gets up there, they have this, you know,
perfectly Bostonian accent and they tell it like it is
and they look up for each other, and so much

(01:07:18):
of that is so great. It's you know, it definitely
is a drag that that's being brought into question and
that this microscope microscope is being put on law enforcement.

Speaker 3 (01:07:27):
Don't you think though too?

Speaker 4 (01:07:28):
And on the other side of things, right, this investigation
was terrible, right, this investigation into the murder of a
fellow police officer, John O'Keefe murder right awful. They were
collecting evidence in red solo cups. They were using like
what a leaf blower to melt the snow or hair dryers?
I mean, like the investigation was absolutely terrible. The lead

(01:07:52):
investigator was texting inappropriate things about Karen Reid to his friends.

Speaker 5 (01:07:57):
Inappropriate. They were so inappropriate, body that I was riveted
watching the testimony of his friend from middle school who
was totally innocently on this text chain. He could not
or would not say those words out loud and made
the attorneys and I actually I learned some words that
I had to go and look up on Urban Dictionary myself,

(01:08:19):
and I.

Speaker 1 (01:08:20):
Was a pall.

Speaker 2 (01:08:21):
Yeah, well, okay, just like a devil's advocate. Not that
suddenly am I suddenly defending law enforcement and.

Speaker 3 (01:08:27):
I reverse roles all the time? Am I suddenly reversing roles?
How of this?

Speaker 2 (01:08:31):
But yes, I you know, yes, high five to law enforcement.
This particular group, let's just play one scenario out. They
realized that this Karen Reid, who didn't even like in
the first place, this is their buddy's girlfriend who they
think is a drag from jump Street. They don't even
like her, and that was kind of apparent. She was
the outsider a bit. They realized that their buddy has

(01:08:52):
been killed by her, and now they're really piling on, right,
they want her to fry for it and this is
a no brainer. And if she thinks she's going to
see the light of day, she has another thing coming.
Does it mean that they are piling on? I guess
I'm answering my own question. That would be corrupt.

Speaker 3 (01:09:10):
I'm sorry. Yeah, sometimes you have to just talk it out.
Sometimes you just have to say it out loud.

Speaker 2 (01:09:14):
Stephanie, Yeah, thank goodness, I'm not on the jury. It's
so confusing. Well again, we will be tracking this one
all week, obviously, and I really want to hear what
people think. I really want people to give us a
call eight eight eight thirty one crime or again use
the talkbacks. I'm dying to know how long you guys
think the jury is going to be out, because like
sometimes that's an indicator of guilt or innocence, right, Like,

(01:09:36):
if the jury comes back very quickly, what does that mean?
If they come back in four days, what does that mean?
What do you think?

Speaker 3 (01:09:42):
Let us know. I really want to hear from you.

Speaker 5 (01:09:44):
Yeah, me too, absolutely, although if I had to weigh
it now, I would guess that a quick one would
mean guilty.

Speaker 2 (01:09:51):
You guys, I said a week ago one hundred percent
of all CNN polls Bostonians. Right, I feel like two
hours has just blipped right by. Wow, this is the
night too that we've talked the least about John Diddy Combs.
You know, obviously it's got a tip of our tongue
for so long. You know, I actually can't believe.

Speaker 3 (01:10:13):
I'm excited about that.

Speaker 2 (01:10:14):
Well, there's always tomorrow, so don't care, So don't even
try it. But again, that's a huge case that is
like really worth examining from every angle. So we'll continue
to follow that this week as well.

Speaker 5 (01:10:25):
And it's an important case. I mean it is, Yes,
is it getting so much play?

Speaker 3 (01:10:29):
It sure is.

Speaker 5 (01:10:30):
But listen, what a message to someone, I mean, a mogul,
a lifetime award winner, an icon arguably, and to be
taken to task and actually be shown. I don't know.
I think there's it's power to you know, have people
who are that powerful, but to be exposed.

Speaker 3 (01:10:51):
Do you think behind closed?

Speaker 7 (01:10:53):
Like?

Speaker 2 (01:10:53):
So, when did he goes back to his cell at
night and he speaks to Sam Bankman, the the other
prisoner who's high profile, and those two swap their day
tales of their times. Do you think did he is
seeing this stuff and is feeling bad? Does he feel
remorse or is he still feeling completely justified and you know,

(01:11:18):
working under this theory that this was all very consensual without.

Speaker 5 (01:11:22):
Being in his brain, I would say he is feeling
furious that the people who were his soldiers and you know,
fell in line due to whatever it was money or
you know, bribing them. I think he's furious.

Speaker 4 (01:11:38):
I think loyalty is really big didity and I think
that's that Courtney kind of hit the nail on the head.
I think he's probably feeling very betrayed and how dare they?
And don't they know who I am? I'm an icon.
I think that's what he's feeling. Whether or not that's
going to prove to be true or not is another story.
But I have a feeling he's feeling a lot of rage,
and I don't think he's feeling remorseful. He's feeling remorseful

(01:12:01):
that he got caught in that those people were not
as loyal to him as he thought they were, and
you can't just treat people like that and keep their loyalty.
Like no amount of money can buy people.

Speaker 3 (01:12:12):
How does he have that much money too? How did
people have he was a producer.

Speaker 2 (01:12:15):
He was money, I know, but like he's also a
keen amounts of money being thrown out the window twenty
four to seven. And you know, listen, some of these big,
high profile people sometimes target really simple prey, right, So
I think in both cases, maybe in you know, we've
seen this in Epstein. Now we're seeing this potentially with Ditty,

(01:12:36):
maybe even with Rex Humorman, the accused Long Island serial killer,
kind of praying on either sex workers or you know,
people who maybe he felt would never turn against him
because you know, it was so high.

Speaker 3 (01:12:50):
Low and balancing.

Speaker 2 (01:12:51):
I'm glad women are getting there their moment at the
speak it and speak up. Yeah, well, listen, we're going
to continue to follow the Ditty trial Karen read obviously
we shall see and also manifestos. We're talking on Monday,
so make sure you join us. We're going to be
here all week through Thursday. We've had awesome guests tonight also,

(01:13:13):
so yeah, thank you again to Corey Abraham for joining us.
Make sure you check out the documentary on Peacock Tuesday,
June tenth. It's a must watch three hours to binge
and of course to Robert Banfelder who literally wrote the book,
if not actually he wrote several books on the Gilgo
Beach murders and he's essentially the guy. So thank you

(01:13:34):
again for coming and we'll have them both back many
times as that as an always Sunday through Thursday live
for two hours. This is True Crime Tonight where we
talk true crime all the time. Have a great night, everyone,