Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Oh, I won't.
Speaker 2 (00:15):
Hello, this is Carolina Barlow and this is the last
episode of True Romance.
Speaker 3 (00:21):
Oh my god. That just made me sad.
Speaker 2 (00:23):
I know it's sad. It's a sad day.
Speaker 3 (00:25):
I'm Devin Leary by the way, if you haven't heard,
and I.
Speaker 2 (00:28):
Want to preface this by saying, I someday, and I
haven't said this to you, Devin outside of the pod,
I someday hope to return to True Romance. I'm in
denial about it fully ending. And I'm just like, you
know what, one day we will turn our mike's back on.
Speaker 4 (00:41):
We'll turn the mike's back on, and we will do
whether it's Patreon, whether it's live events, whether it's Yes There, whether.
Speaker 2 (00:50):
It's a book, whether it's a magazine like Oprah. Just kidding,
but I don't believe. I just have an intuitive feeling
and that this is not the end the end, and
this is just let's call it a pause.
Speaker 3 (01:08):
Let's call it a pause for sure, for.
Speaker 2 (01:11):
Sure, because this is too good. Our listeners are too great.
And you know, while journaling today and while you know,
writing down some things I want to say today, I
just kept feeling like I we have more to say
there's going to be you know, as Devin and I
knock on wood, get married, someday, have kids, some day,
(01:31):
I think we're gonna have more to say. And so
I see us returning to this podcast, and this is
just a pause. As you know, we organize our own
state of affairs, and we will definitely work to come
back to this.
Speaker 3 (01:45):
And by the way, speaking of Oprah, were we silent
or were we side silent? No? The ladder were the
ladder either? No, neither. We're gonna keep talking somehow, so much.
Speaker 2 (01:59):
It's true, somehow, some way, and I see a future
of the Patreon and we will get there.
Speaker 4 (02:05):
Now, speaking of futures, there is none for vander Pump Rules.
Speaker 2 (02:12):
This is the thing that I'm getting spooked out by
just the way we are taking pause on the show
in terms of how it's timed out. Like, of course,
as we have our season finale, if you want to
call it that, so does vander Pump Rules, So does
Summer House, so does the Valley. You know, we're all
winding down the season, and I would like to just
(02:36):
touch on vander Pump Rules briefly. We had, of course,
the iconic Ariana storming out because her boundaries weren't respected
and everyone freaking out because of this. I found this
episode to be amazing. I think Brock is the secret enemy.
You know, he's the secret villain. I think that Sheena
(02:58):
and Lalla are death spread for a paycheck, and so
they think that they need to assimilate Tom Sandoval back
into the group. Katie Maloney, I'm a Katie apologist. I
really love her. I know that some people think she's
miserable and toxic and maybe on downers of some sort.
(03:20):
Sometimes you know she is talking softly and perhaps learning
her words, But I do like how she just doesn't
fuck with Sandoval.
Speaker 3 (03:30):
Yeah, she's What did she say when your friend's ex.
Speaker 2 (03:34):
When a guy fucks over your friend, fuck the guy.
Speaker 4 (03:38):
Yes, I completely agree with that statement, and I take
back anything I said about Ariana being annoying earlier in
the season or being boring, because like Arianna said too,
she said, like my message to people who think I'm
not being a good reality star, I won Reality Star
of the Year last year, and so I guess, yes.
Speaker 2 (04:00):
I think I know what I'm doing.
Speaker 3 (04:02):
Also, she's the reason, like, let's be real, if Raquel.
Speaker 4 (04:09):
Was the one who was fucked over with James, Like
if James fucked her kel over with Lalla, we would
not have all tuned in the way we did for
a Scanda all because we all loved Ariana and supported
her and saw her value. The reason we're behind her
is because she's easy to get behind, and the reason
we're watching is to see what she does next. And
(04:33):
it's really shocking how jealous and insecure Shena and Lalla are.
Speaker 2 (04:40):
When Laala was like, I'm sorry, just because you're cheated on?
Does it make you Beyonce? Does it make you God?
And Sheina was literally slapping her on the arming, like
and I agree with you, and I agree with.
Speaker 3 (04:52):
You and you.
Speaker 2 (04:55):
I thought it was really interesting when Ario went on
and watch What Happens Live and she said, you know,
I think all we are all like the Spice girls.
Like I thought we were all, you know, banding together,
and only in retrospect did I see that you know,
that's not what was happening. And you know, some people
were talking about how great this season would have been
if all the women had banded together. Yeah, but instead
(05:18):
Lala was like, I'm going to go talk to Sandoval
and like figure out what's going on with him. And
that's the thing too, is that. And I think this
is interesting because I think I've done it in relationships
before when I was much younger, where I thought, you know,
let me investigate what's wrong with this guy, let me
get to the bottom of this. And it's like, it
(05:39):
doesn't matter when someone's treating you that way. It doesn't matter.
It doesn't matter where they got it from, it doesn't
matter what you'd like to diagnose them with. It doesn't matter.
They're not treating you well, get out. And I really
respect and admire how Arianna is just done with this person,
doesn't want them speaking to her.
Speaker 1 (06:00):
You know.
Speaker 4 (06:00):
Uh.
Speaker 2 (06:01):
Some security guard told fans that waited by the stage
Dwarf Chicago, like, please do not bring up her ex.
I can't imagine if I was trying to move on
and people kept on bringing up like the worst thing
that ever happened to me.
Speaker 4 (06:14):
Yeah, well I really And by the way, you know
what Lala and Sheina created. First of all, wait, who
said the thing about if she had to film with Randall?
Speaker 2 (06:29):
A lot of people are saying that online, like can
you imagine if Lala had this film with Randal like
she would she wouldn't lose it, like.
Speaker 4 (06:36):
Well, what Sheena and Lala got was Tom Sandoval's victory
and Feminism's loss, which is when he was like, well,
this looks great for me, like that final quote that
the MIC's caught of him saying like basically like thanks
to Lala and Sina, I look good.
Speaker 2 (06:56):
Which a lot of people are comparing to Robert durstk
confession at the end of The.
Speaker 4 (07:00):
Jinks burping, farting, of course I killed them all. By
the way, the Jinks, it's like they're just like dragging
out every episode is like all right, and then tune
in next week to hear if something actually happened, and
it's like, okay, but.
Speaker 3 (07:16):
I'll be watching every episode. But what I will say is.
Speaker 4 (07:21):
I cannot freaking wait for the reunion. And you know
I'm not a reunion person, but this year's vander Pump
and Summerhouse reunions are marked on my calendar.
Speaker 3 (07:32):
Yes, I cannot wait.
Speaker 2 (07:34):
I am actually more excited for the Summerhouse reunion because
I cannot wait to see Carl and Lindsay go head
to head, mainly because I know Lindsay will destroy him.
Speaker 3 (07:46):
Well, so I.
Speaker 4 (07:48):
Watch watch what Happens Live this week, and I have
to say I hate Carl so much, Like I just
think he's so classic man who can't take any accountability.
And he's like, I'm a people feezer. I just didn't
want to hurt Lindsay, Like, oh sorry, I just didn't want.
Speaker 3 (08:02):
To hurt her. It's like you did, and you did
hurt her, so I just own it.
Speaker 2 (08:06):
Camera's back to break up with her on camera. Yeah,
and let's not forget.
Speaker 3 (08:11):
Just be like, no, I own it. I hurt her
and I strunk.
Speaker 4 (08:13):
Andy said, He's like, do you agree with a lot
of the viewers who think you're stringing Lindsay along by
not being.
Speaker 3 (08:19):
Direct with her?
Speaker 4 (08:20):
And he's like, I can see what they're saying, but like,
trust me, we were in couples therapy. It's like, well, then,
why was she so confused every time she's on camera
being like I don't know, I just feel like there's
something missing there. And also here it was interesting, so
I was like, okay. So it was Jesse, Solomon and
(08:40):
Carl on Watch What Happens Live and Andy wanted to
play a game where he was like, okay, you guys
are both single, Like we're going to do Tinder with
like the housewives, and so Andy was like putting up
pictures of housewives and they were supposed to say like
swipe left and swipe right, and Jesse, I think classic classic,
(09:01):
like untrained reality star was like being a genuine He's like, no,
I swiped left, Like that's not my type.
Speaker 3 (09:07):
No, And then eventually was kind of just like these
are like older.
Speaker 4 (09:10):
Women and I'm like not into them, but Carl every
single persons like, oh, yes she's great, swipe right, Yes,
I met her at Pravo con Yes, swipe right.
Speaker 3 (09:18):
And eventually Jesse was like, come on, Like you can't
just say yes to every single person.
Speaker 4 (09:21):
It's like, well, that's Carl's whole thing is like not
causing any conflict. And by the way, rewatching the old seasons,
I will say this and I'm sorry. I'm sorry to
target an elderly woman who's been through a lot.
Speaker 3 (09:34):
But Carl's mom is the core with everything.
Speaker 4 (09:39):
Like there's this episode in season two where all the people,
it's like every single cast member brings their parent or
like loved one on and they all do a dinner
and Carl's mom starts crying about her divorce goes into
a separate room with Carl and literally drapes herself over
him so like her arms are around him, like they're
(09:59):
startancing like a middle school dance. Bit's being like, this
is how much I'm dealing with She keeps facetiming him
to be like I just had to drop off the
divorce contra. It's like she has no boundaries with him. Therefore,
he hates women, but he doesn't know how to deal
with it, and he like a nice guy, so he's, yeah,
basically like taking on complicated women just so he can
make them feel bad about themselves because he can't help
(10:19):
but hate them.
Speaker 3 (10:20):
And then he doesn't know how to handle conflict because
he's a baby. So but anyway, on watch what Happens Live.
Speaker 4 (10:27):
My whole point was actually to say that Andy said
who gets the most heat at the reunion?
Speaker 3 (10:33):
And Carl said me, and Jesse said Lindsay.
Speaker 2 (10:37):
Interesting. Interesting. I do think it's interesting. There was that
one scene in last week's episode or this week's episode
rather where literally the guys are sitting together talking about
how fucked up Lindsay is, and the girls are sitting
together talking about how fucked up Carl is and I
don't I root for Lindsay simply because I'm a woman,
(10:59):
and I just I'm so unattracted to Carl because of
what a victim he is. And I think that is
like the lethal combination is that Lindsay is someone who
actually victimizes people, like harasses someone when there she's drunk
and like, you know, it's just bulligerent, and Carl is
someone who's in love with this victim role.
Speaker 4 (11:18):
Clearly, Yeah, it's interesting to go back and watch the
old seasons because.
Speaker 3 (11:26):
The lindsayan Everett dynamic.
Speaker 4 (11:29):
He was abusive, Like I'll just say that, at least emotionally,
he was like awful to her, and then she would
get drunk and be emotionally abusive to him, like and
like there's one episode where he comes to a party
and has a conversation with her ever and he's like,
I want to get back together and she's like okay,
and she's like already kind of drunk, and then she
gets wasted and he they're like hanging out and he
(11:51):
goes outside to say something to Carl and she's like,
if you want to get back together with me, you
better not look at a single other person. And like
is like crying, screaming at him because he like left
her for one second, and then the next episode she's like, okay, guys,
I left my body and I wasn't myself. Sorry, Okay,
moving on, It's my birthday, and she like just doesn't
bring it up, I know, And so I think I
(12:16):
think she.
Speaker 3 (12:20):
It's hard.
Speaker 4 (12:20):
It's like if she had never started drinking again, she
probably would just come out on top in this whole thing,
like she would just be like, Okay, you're the one
who's the asshole, you don't actually want to marry me whatever.
But because she started drinking, there's like a finger to
point and then she like does erratic things and it's
like okay, but I feel like he is trying to
like the conversation where she it's like she just comes
(12:41):
into the kitchen. He's like, hey, so I wanted to
tell you that, like I'm actually doing this, Like he's
kind of like trapping her into an intense conversation and
that's unfair. But then it's also unfair to say, like
you ruined my birthday, you ruin my day, you ruin
my night, Like I'm gonna go cry now.
Speaker 2 (12:56):
Well that's the key thing is that they don't like
each other, you know, like Lindsey clearly gets excited when
people are talking shit about Carl or like pointing.
Speaker 3 (13:05):
Out, you know, boy, have I been there? Boy have
I been there?
Speaker 2 (13:10):
And that's a sign that you do not belong with
someone if when they're like, oh, well, I think it's
really fucked up that you're, you know, like partner does this,
and you're not inclined to defend your partner, you're like yes, yes,
And Sierra does say it well where she's like, how
can you be attracted to someone when you're the one
who's taking care of everything?
Speaker 3 (13:29):
Yes?
Speaker 2 (13:29):
Yes, yes, And that's true And it's either way. It's
not like I'm not being you know, heteronormative when.
Speaker 3 (13:38):
I say that.
Speaker 2 (13:39):
I if a guy is taking care of everything and
I'm not doing anything like, I probably wouldn't feel attracted,
no attractive, you know, I would just feel like depressed.
And I think you really have to have a partnership
where you both feel like you're pulling some weight. But
I have been like the partner who is doing the
emotional labor to keep the relationship afloat, and that is
(14:02):
really hard to.
Speaker 4 (14:03):
Yeah, it's also like again, as I said before, like
going back and watching old episodes, Like it's completely understandable
and fine to me, Like the idea of like being
with someone who's like pursuing something they really care about,
but like as a result, they like don't have a
steady job because they're trying to figure out like this
dream that they have or something, but like just kind
(14:26):
of aimlessly like bopping through life doing like in the beginning,
he's doing all these sales jobs, keeps getting fired and
then lands at lover.
Speaker 3 (14:34):
Boy and he's like wasted and like showing up on drugs.
Speaker 4 (14:37):
Then he gets sober and he's still like can't find
a job or figure it out. And I feel like
it's like an ego thing, Like I feel like what's
really bothering her is because he's not willing to. Like
I had this issue with a boyfriend of my early
twenties who, like you said, like at the time, my
friends would like make fun of him or say things
(14:57):
about him because we were in like the same social circle.
And I was like, I completely agree, Like I was like,
I don't respect anything, Oh trust me, I do not
respect anything going on here.
Speaker 3 (15:09):
And they're like, but you are in the relationship, so
it seems like you do.
Speaker 4 (15:14):
And then that same person like lost his job and
it was like I don't care that you like don't
have a job, but like he was said things like
I can't just have like a nine to five, Like
I can't just be like sitting at a desk. And
it's like, okay, so you're like too full of yourself
to think of yourself as anything besides like the star,
and that's the problem. And like I'm kind of getting
(15:34):
that sense from Kyle.
Speaker 3 (15:35):
I mean Carl right.
Speaker 4 (15:36):
I think he thinks he's like this like superior, like God,
just because he stopped doing coke and drinking. And it's like, no,
you still have to like humble yourself enough to be
like how am I going to be a working member
of like a relationship and society as a whole.
Speaker 2 (15:51):
Yeah, it's fascinating. I also, to just jump around a
little bit, I wanted to talk about the fight that
Amanda and Kyle got into MM, which is talk about
not liking each other. Like I actually think Kyle really
loves Amanda. I just think Amanda resents the hell out
of Kyle and like can't stand him, and you know,
(16:14):
she kind of tearfully decides with Page and Sierra that
she wants to do her own thing and just sort
of take care of parts of herself. And Sierra points
out like all she has is lover boy and Kyle,
and that makes Amanda emotional, and she kind of confesses, Oh,
I want to start a swimwear line, which is very much,
(16:35):
you know, a Bravo star thing to do, Like how
are you going to capitalize on your role on television?
You need to start a business, you know. I mean,
I think it's so funny that Craig is like the
most successful at this because he literally started like the
stupidest company of all time, which is just Plow Down
so Sewing Down South, And like, I love Craig. He
(16:56):
makes the ugliest pillows I've ever seen in my life.
Speaker 4 (16:58):
No, truly, I actually like, for someone's birthday or something,
I was like, oh, I think it'd be funny to
get them like a crag pillow, and then I like
looked at the website and was like, I wouldn't like
noliest thing I've ever Keeping a Sewing Down South pillow
to someone becomes like a plight on their life because
then you have this like heinous pillow and you like
feel guilty to throw it away because people are dying.
Speaker 3 (17:18):
But it's like, I don't want this like picture of
a lobster on.
Speaker 2 (17:22):
A right pillow in my house, like a picture of
a pineapple.
Speaker 3 (17:26):
It just is horrific. It's so bad.
Speaker 2 (17:29):
But Amanda decides, you don't want to start a swimmerline
for women with big boobs, which to me, I'm like,
oh wow, yes, the women with big boobs are really suffering.
Speaker 3 (17:37):
I know.
Speaker 4 (17:38):
So when she first said that, I was like, Okay, what,
but then I realized, like, yeah, that actually is like
what they all do. It's like Jesse James Decker had
like one season of a reality show on E and
now she has like a swimwear empire.
Speaker 2 (17:51):
Basically, yeah, I do think Amanda is really talented at design,
Like lover Boy merch sells out all the time, and
the lover Boy like packaging actually looks good and it's
probably like the only cool thing about it. But yeah, Nevertheless,
she tells Kyle this, and I truly think she had
no idea how badly this was gonna go, because Kyle
(18:15):
immediately is like, well, we are suffering, we are really struggling.
And I really need your help. And she's like, well,
I wouldn't quit lover Boy or leave. I would just
you know, start doing my own thing. And he's like okay,
and I hear you, but I really need you and
she's like, no, I know, I just and he's basically
just like bullying her to stay at lover Boy and
(18:37):
just keep saying like how much he needs her instead of,
you know, hearing what she has to say, which is
that she needs to do something for herself. Then they're
in the kitchen later and he's like, I want to
talk to you about this and and she says what
I'm like, oh my god, this is such a good
toxic relationship. She's like, I just don't think tonight's the night,
meaning like I don't want to have a huge fight
with you right now. And he's like, well, I'm sorry,
(19:01):
I was just thinking about and she goes yourself and
his face drops and he walks away goes fuck you,
which as I was watching it, my mom was in
the room and I was like, oh, I wouldn't have
a boyfriend who would talk to me this way. Like
I've been in toxic relationships before, and you know, in
(19:22):
my early twenties, a guy would say stuff like that
to me, like go fuck yourself, fuck you, like give
me the middle finger and stuff, and like, I just
think that's like really abusive to like speak to your
partner that way and you're married and you're telling your
wife fuck you, Like I'm sorry to make this a
big deal, but I really think that matters. Then he
(19:43):
has a full mental breakdown in front of Carl and
Danielle or no, sorry, was it Carl Danielle or Carl and.
Speaker 3 (19:51):
Gabby but Carlin Danielle.
Speaker 2 (19:52):
I think he yell, do you know what I want
to do?
Speaker 3 (19:56):
I want to be a DJ.
Speaker 2 (19:58):
I want to be a DJ, and it was yeah,
and if you were my employee, meaning Amanda, you would
be fucking fired.
Speaker 4 (20:06):
Oh and by the way, when Carl and Jesse went
on Watch What Happens Live, they like talked about Kyle's
DJing in a serious way and they're like, he actually
has a DJing gig like this weekend and like watch
(20:26):
out James Kennedy. So I was like, wait, this is
becoming a thing, like lover boy must not be doing
well because like why is he doing that? But also
so not to be constantly like the historical expert on
this show.
Speaker 3 (20:39):
But I am currently rewatching it, and I do have
to say that.
Speaker 4 (20:42):
And by the way, when I visited my friend Haley
and Seattle, I made her watch like the first season
of Summerhouse because I want her to binge it. And
when she found it, she's like searching through Hulu like
to try to find it, and I go, there it is,
and she said, you said that like you were looking
at your firstbornch.
Speaker 3 (21:00):
Like, ah, there he is.
Speaker 4 (21:03):
I was like so excited, but she was getting upset
while we're watching it, and she's like, this is just
upsetting to me because like they're our age and they're
like drinking this way, like it'd be one thing if
they're twenty, and I'm like, oh, trust me, they are
forty currently and still doing that. But there's an episode
in season two where this is like, so, this is
actually one of the most sinister things I've ever experienced.
(21:25):
They go on a party bus, Kyle gets wasted, peas
into a wine bottle on the bus, like takes out
his penis on the bus and peas into a wine bottle,
fills it up, and says, does anybody want Pino Grigio
and cut to they get.
Speaker 3 (21:42):
Home, he leaves the bottle on the bus.
Speaker 4 (21:46):
Amanda has to take the bottle and empty it into
the toilet, presumably because she doesn't want like the driver
of the bus to.
Speaker 3 (21:53):
Have to do that, and she goes outside to tell Kyle.
Speaker 4 (21:57):
She says, if you're gonna pee into a bus on
the bus, get rid of it right away. Not even like,
if you're going to be an adult, acceptable human being,
please do not urinate in front of people on a
car where you're all sharing the car. Like She's like, so,
if you're gonna do that, like clean it up yourself.
And then he gets so mad at her that he
screams at her and says, summer is supposed to be fun, Amanda,
(22:20):
not fun, and like Lee like, and I'm like the
fact that she marries this man, the fact that she
is married to this man, and the fact that he's
screaming at her about wanting to be a DJ and
firing her is actually one of the worst controversies in
American human being history in my opinion.
Speaker 2 (22:39):
It's so crazy, and she's so beautiful and he's so heinous.
Speaker 3 (22:44):
I know she's so that was the thing too, Like.
Speaker 4 (22:48):
My friend when watching it was like I wouldn't like
sleep with any of these men if they were the
last people on earth. Like they're not attractive, they're so
trying too hard, they're so embarrassing their children, and yet
this like stunning. All the women are so stunning. Like
it's just so confusing.
Speaker 2 (23:07):
I know, I'm always like I'm embarrassed for Page and
I guess Danielle. I didn't even know Danielle dated him.
That everyone's hooked up with Carl, Like that's embarrassing to me.
Speaker 3 (23:17):
No, it's really embarrassing. It's really bad. It's really bad.
Speaker 4 (23:20):
And like when I was watching that mom scene where
he's like embracing his mom and she's like draping herself over.
Speaker 3 (23:25):
Him, crying.
Speaker 4 (23:26):
I remember in the next season that Page will be
the one to say, like you can tell a lot
about a guy about the with the way he treats
his mom. It's like, yeah, and pay close attention there,
you might want to look a little deeper.
Speaker 2 (23:39):
There is that how Page comes in is that she's
hooking up with Carl.
Speaker 3 (23:43):
No, she comes in and is like, I it's kind
of funny.
Speaker 4 (23:47):
In season three, like the way they all come in
because I am like eternally fascinated by Hannah Berner just
because I'm like, what's the deal here?
Speaker 3 (23:55):
Like everyone seemingly like hated her when she left the show,
and now she like debatably more successful than all of them,
because she's like.
Speaker 2 (24:03):
Most Bravo celebrities, Like now she has actually like a
successful stand up career and has like a Netflix special.
Speaker 3 (24:09):
But then she's like married to that guy who seems
so lame and weird.
Speaker 2 (24:14):
I know, to get a divorce, Okay.
Speaker 3 (24:17):
So basically whatever.
Speaker 4 (24:18):
So Hannah, Paige, and a pathological liar named Jordan who's
Christian and like clearly gay but lies about it all
come in together and they're like, we're all friends and
where you all are like influencers, Like we all work
for a media company and we're influencers.
Speaker 3 (24:34):
And then Lindsay and.
Speaker 4 (24:35):
Danielle are like, okay, these new girls like don't know anything.
Speaker 3 (24:38):
And Amanda becomes friends with Paige and whatever.
Speaker 4 (24:41):
But Paige comes onto the show and Carl is like
immediately interested in her, and she like plays hard to
get and then eventually they make out like twice, and then.
Speaker 3 (24:49):
He's like you let me on whatever, and she's like
what I can do whatever I want.
Speaker 2 (24:53):
Very interesting. Also, there's like a epidemic of veneer on
this show.
Speaker 3 (25:01):
Okay, So I.
Speaker 4 (25:02):
Have spend so much time trying to figure out why
Carl looks so much worse now than he does in
the past seasons, and I think it's the Veneers, and
also that he's way too manicured now, Like he does
this weird haircut where he gels it back and it's
just too much. But when he was like more natural,
like kind of hungover every day, he looked better.
Speaker 3 (25:21):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (25:22):
I remember seeing during the Vanderpump crossover that initially birthed
Summer House. I remember seeing where Kyle famously tells Stossy
that she looks like Steve Jobs because she's wearing a
turtleneck bathing suit and Carl actually looks hot and it's chilling.
Speaker 3 (25:40):
It is so upsetting.
Speaker 2 (25:43):
Yeah, I'm very interested to see what this reunion looks like.
I'm interested in West and Sierra's relationship and the disintegration
of it. Clearly they're not together anymore. And what interests
me is that I don't think Sierra likes West. I
think she likes having like a guy, Like she's very excited,
like oh, I'm gonna go sayhead to my booth bang.
(26:04):
And she's just like always like arm draped around him
and stuff, but won't have sex with him, Like I
don't know, there's just something, but then calls him her
his like her boyfriend, and I can't tell how much
Wes like Sierra too. I think he just wants to
get laid really badly, but he seems freaked out when
(26:25):
he like she calls him her boyfriend. I don't know,
I'm it's interesting.
Speaker 3 (26:30):
I know, like he really lost me this past up.
Speaker 4 (26:33):
I was kind of holding out hope for him, and
he is in my TikTok algorithm and he is charming,
but this week when he did the thing of like, well,
it's scary to like be in a relationship because you
could like either get hurt or have to get married,
and like both are scary, and it's like, all right,
I'm done with you.
Speaker 3 (26:48):
I just don't.
Speaker 2 (26:49):
I'm I can't, I can't.
Speaker 3 (26:52):
I can't.
Speaker 4 (26:53):
And I believe Jesse Salomon, especially after this week. I
really believed in him, but then he was so like
weird least standing Carl in the Watch What Happens Live episode,
I was like, you're choosing the wrong heroes. Yeah, not
that there's any heroes to be had in this world,
but I mean.
Speaker 2 (27:10):
I guess Craig would be a good I was gonna say,
Craig is the only one who's shown growth, which is
you know, really hard to see in a lot of people,
which is.
Speaker 3 (27:21):
Historically rare in humans. Growth.
Speaker 2 (27:23):
It's so true. I want to transition to talking about
the end of this podcast. Oh, this podcast, and I
just want to talk about like some things that this
podcast has taught me and where I was and where
I am now, and I can't believe it's been four years.
That seems insane, and I just well, I first want
(27:46):
to just say to our listeners and the ones who
have written in expressing their sadness about the podcast being over,
like this podcast just wouldn't mean anything to me if
it weren't for our listeners who have expressed that they
identify with us and that they you know, that this
has helped them through breakups, that this has helped them
(28:08):
realize what they deserve. You know, that is something I'm
immensely proud of and grateful for. And it makes me
realize that this needed to be a podcast that people
needed to hear this and a lot of the times,
and I'll just speak for myself, when we were saying
things out loud, it was as if we were talking
(28:31):
to ourselves, you know, and reminding ourselves of what we deserved.
I don't think that it was stuff that I innately
believed until I had to speak to it, if that
makes sense totally.
Speaker 4 (28:42):
And I think this podcast has really like altered my
belief in myself because I think we both came about
it from a place of like total authenticity in terms
of like thinking about what we're going to say and
how we're going to say say it, and like wanting
to be completely honest, like to the best of our ability.
(29:06):
And so it is really scary to like do that
and like broadcast how you really feel about a person
or yourself or situations, especially when that's like constantly changing,
and it's like really hard to be a woman in
this world or a person in this world and like
share about yourself vulnerably. But like the way people responded
(29:29):
really validated my belief in myself and helped me like
grow in that way. And I think like a lot
of people wrote in and said like they looked forward
to like just hearing us, like the idea that anyone
looked forward to, like hearing us talk on a Thursday morning,
and like hearing our perspective and that's just like, so
(29:54):
that's something I will sorry to be corny cherish forever.
And I think shows like I really believe when anyone
is like vulnerable about how they're feeling, the community around
them is benefited from that. And I think that the
(30:17):
way we've gone about this podcast kind of like proves that, like.
Speaker 2 (30:21):
And I think that there have been times when people
cannot handle my vulnerability. And when I say people, I
mean like partners'.
Speaker 1 (30:30):
Wait are you talking about the trolls and the reviews
and by the way, Republican people who said that we
are man hating and whatever we are, and that's okay.
Speaker 2 (30:42):
I think that I've dated people who don't want me
to express insecurity, don't want me to express you know, trauma.
And it's not like they've told me shut up or
anything like that, but I've dated people who just can't
handle that. And you know, I can understand, like maybe
you don't overshare on the first date, but if you're
(31:04):
in a relationship with someone for years, it's okay. To
be vulnerable and it's okay to express insecurity.
Speaker 1 (31:14):
You know.
Speaker 2 (31:14):
I was dating someone who when I expressed insecurity over
his last partner, he was like, well, I want you
to be confident as in and I was like, oh, okay,
Like I guess I could fake that. And you know,
I have mixed feelings because I think as a therapist
has told me, like, you shouldn't necessarily go to a
(31:34):
partner like they're a well of self esteem and like
basically ask them to fill your cup. But at the
same time, like, if you're being vulnerable with someone you know,
you should feel like that is a safe place.
Speaker 4 (31:47):
Yes, And by the way, this brings up Summer House
yet again, my whole life being Summer House and everything,
Like I basically live and breathed Summerhouse. And yes, I
am terrified that I'm almost done rewatching ceas in two,
which means that I'll be done rewatching the whole thing
and I'll have nowhere to go. But it's interesting what
you just said, because in season one, Lindsey is with
(32:10):
Everett and he straight up tells her to shut up
when she's like talking about her feelings. He'll say shut up,
and he'll be like, oh my god, what are you
talking about? Like stop talking, you sound insane like that. Okay,
flash forward. Now she's with Carl and in a different way,
he is trying to make her feel like she needs
(32:31):
to be smaller than herself and she's the problem and
he's gaslighting her. And the perfect example to what you
were just saying, like she when they're having the conversation
about lover boy, She's like, I'm not gonna just be
like a yes man, which I really related to. It's
like I feel like a lot of times like I
am someone who is like an over communicator, like wants
(32:52):
to get to the bottom of things, wants to deal now,
wants to like talk about what's actually happening, And that's
how I am in every area of my life. Like
I feel like creatively, I'm that way. I feel like
with my friends, I'm that way. Like if I'm trying
to be friends with you and you're talking about boring
small talk by like hanging three, like.
Speaker 3 (33:08):
We are not gonna connect.
Speaker 4 (33:09):
I need to be knowing about your deepest, darkest traumas
almost immediate for us to have a real relationship. And
that's just how I am. If someone's vibe is off,
I need to know why. And I feel like sometimes dating,
especially straight man, they want somebody to be like, oh good,
everything's good, no worries, Like, let's just pretend it ever happened.
Speaker 3 (33:31):
Let's just yesterday didn't exist.
Speaker 4 (33:33):
It's cool, Like whatever you want to do, Okay, you
want to start a sober sports bark, Cool, you want
to be a voice in the sober community.
Speaker 3 (33:41):
Whatever. Cool, you could do anything you want.
Speaker 4 (33:43):
And she's like, that's just not me, Like, I'm just
gonna tell you what I really feel. Sometimes what she
really feels maybe not expressed in the best.
Speaker 2 (33:51):
Way, maybe just like a Martini talking. But you know, yes,
I did hear her in that moment where she said,
I'm going to brand to you things you've told me.
And yeah, I think it's interesting watching the Carl Job
journey because men are so sensitive about their egos and
(34:16):
that's so connected to money and work. Yeah, it's like
when you see a celebrity couple, whenever the woman is
getting more successful and whenever the guy is struggling with
his career, you know they're headed for a breakup. And
that's just not true if the sexes are reversed, so true.
I know, I just wanted to talk a little bit
(34:45):
on a few things that I feel like I've learned
doing this podcast, and I wanted to start with that
being single is not an emergency, and I felt that
people in our societ treated as such. It's something I'm
asked constantly if I'm dating anyone and I'm not, and
(35:06):
I'm still allowed to be happy and fulfilled. I'm still
allowed to feel fulfilled, you know, and I have I
think being sober being someone who has a lot of
scars and is hesitant about like like I mean, if
you're listening, can you imagine getting naked with someone completely
(35:27):
sober and them seeing like very deep scars on your body,
Like it's an intensely vulnerable thing to do. So I
don't just it's very hard for me to do casually, impossible,
impossible for me to imagine doing casually. So you know,
I typically stay single until I have like really strong
feelings about someone, and that's just the truth about me,
(35:49):
and that is something that's absolutely okay. I do not
have to date for the rest of my life if
I don't want to, and at the same time, I
do want to, and so I'm working to I'm working
to like really try to open up more. But it
can happen on my timeline and it doesn't have to
happen on other people's timeline. When we started this podcast,
(36:11):
I was about two years out of a really severe
car accident that had left me with like severe PCSD.
And now in the year twenty twenty four, six years
after this car accident, I've just started driving again and
I don't go on highways yet. I just go on
you know, surface streets. But I say that because it
(36:34):
happened on my own timeline, and I did, you know,
get encouragement from people and some pressure from like friends
that this is something that I should like push myself
to do, and that did help. But I, you know,
sometimes now driving I'm like, oh, why didn't I just
like start doing this three years ago? And my answer
is because I wasn't ready and I'm not going to
(36:55):
you know, beat myself up for that. And so I
feel like it's similar to data where it's like, yeah,
I'm not going to do that until I'm ready, and
it's the right person. Off of that, I wanted to say, like,
I think thanks to this podcast, thanks to the people
you interviewed. Thanks to talking to you so often, I've
realized that I'm allowed to set my bar high and
(37:17):
that since I was a child, I have felt like
I'm I should be grateful for any guy expressing interest
in me. Yes, and I should be grateful for any
guy willing to spend time with me. And it's why,
especially in my early twenties, even if guy said something
that was not okay, you know I you know, like
(37:40):
my boyfriend when I was twenty one twenty two said
he sympathized with how much hate George Bush got, I
felt like, well, I am lucky someone even wants to
walk around with me. And now, even though knowing that
like my life comes with complications, I have decided I
(38:02):
want a real partner and I'm allowed to want the
whole package. And that doesn't mean someone perfect, but that
means someone who's okay with me getting completely vulnerable, who
wants me to be completely vulnerable, who wants to take
care of me just as much as I want to
take care of them. You know, who's kind, who's funny,
who's smart, who's tall? I'm not even like a married
(38:23):
to the tall part, but like who I'm attracted to,
because sometimes when I'm on online like dating apps, I'll
be like, oh, I'm not really attracted to them, but
like maybe right, And it's like, no, I can wait
till someone I'm really attracted to. Right, just deserve someone
(38:44):
that I want. It sounds very basic, but I don't
have to settle for anyone who is not there for
me fully. And I think past relationships have really, you know,
been necessary because they show me what I need. And
I think I've never had someone who was fully on
(39:06):
my team, you know, I've never had someone who would
choose me over their friends. And I am realizing, like
how much I deserve that one percent?
Speaker 3 (39:21):
Is it my turn?
Speaker 2 (39:22):
Yeah?
Speaker 4 (39:25):
I loved everything you said, And it's so crazy to
think about where we were at four years ago. Like
I think what's interesting is when we started the podcast,
I actually thought I was in like an amazing place,
Like I was like, I am good, I figured it
all out.
Speaker 3 (39:45):
Like I was.
Speaker 4 (39:46):
Living with so much self loathing that I didn't understand that.
I like thought I was doing great and was just
like between different forms of validation. So like when I
when we started the podcast, I had a boyfriend who
was currently like you know, presenting a persona of like
being perfect basically, which is a red flag when someone
is too perfect in the beginning, and so I kind
(40:07):
of was like, yeah, like I don't know, I don't
think I have any problems. And then when he turned
on me and started being I'm not perfect, yeah, like psychotic,
then I was like, oh, how is it that I'm
suddenly like feeling complete worthlessness on the floor and crying
(40:31):
and like I need to get this person's love back
or else I don't matter. And I think, like I said,
like this podcast helped me like have worth in myself
and my voice and like everything that I have to
bring to the table authentically, which.
Speaker 3 (40:44):
Is my voice, I guess, and that really helped me.
Speaker 4 (40:49):
In addition to real like intensive psychodynamic therapy like cognitive
behavioral therapy EMDR, all this like really intense work that
I had to do to learn how to like actually
love myself, this podcast was a way that I like
found worth and started to value myself in a different way.
(41:12):
And so when you were talking, I was really inspired
by what you said about like the difference between when
this podcast started and now like you're driving again, Like
that's amazing, and I think like I remember when we
first started the podcast that you were like not ready
to even talk about like your injuries and your experiences
(41:35):
that much or like open up about it. And now
you're so open about it, and so many people have
like written in with like gratitude about that, and I
think that's like a lesson for everyone about vulnerability. And
I heard a lot in what you said of like
self compassion. That's like one of the other biggest things
I've learned through the process of this podcast. I think,
(41:55):
like it's a lot it's really easy for me to
have like compassion for you or for our listeners, but
it's always been like nearly impossible for me to have
compassion for myself. But like you said, like it's like, okay,
my experience, like what you shared, like your experience meeting
someone is different than anyone else's experience meeting someone, and
that's okay, and that that can be that way. And
(42:15):
I think I my biggest challenge is like it's okay
if I'm struggling right now, it's okay. If I'm not,
it's okay if I you know, I really sincerely have
a belief now, which is like remarkable to me.
Speaker 3 (42:28):
That I'm like, yeah, if I end up alone, like
I'll be okay.
Speaker 4 (42:31):
Like I love myself enough that I know that's okay,
and also that I know that that doesn't have to
be the case if I don't want it to. Like
I know that I can have love that I deserve.
And it's not because I like stumbled upon like the
right person, or it's like because I deserve that. And
I work really hard to be like the best version
(42:53):
of myself. And I think, yeah, like consistently showing up
one week to talk earnestly about relationship dynamics, whether they
were ours or deranged alcoholics on TV has really been
like a form of therapy in a way for me.
(43:17):
And I'm going to have to replace it with something
I don't know what.
Speaker 2 (43:22):
Yeah, it's really shaped, you know, my compass or made
me a compass of you know, directing me towards what
I want.
Speaker 3 (43:33):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (43:33):
And I went on a date. I said, you know,
my New Year's resolution was to go on one date.
I did. I was ecstatic when that person didn't call
her text. I was like, that's fine, you know, like
that means nothing about me. And you know that's all
because of this podcast and something too that I still
(43:55):
struggle with letting go of people and just closing the
door on old chapters of my life. And this past
year I've really been doing that. You know. I don't
stock anyone's Instagram. I don't, you know, I rarely bring
up my exes by name. I just call them my exes.
And why I do that, why I don't look on
(44:17):
the Instagram, why I try not to obsess, is because
I want what's meant for me and I don't want
to keep holding a place for what's clearly not meant
for me. And I think, you know, I want to
basically metaphorically keep a seat open for what's there for me.
And if i'm can, if I keep looking at the past,
(44:38):
you know, I think me and my boyfriend when I
was nineteen, we broke up, and I think I spent
the next two years thinking about him and missing him
and being obsessed with loving him hating him, you know, YadA, YadA, YadA,
And that is was serious wasted time. And I you know,
(44:59):
am now how someone who's really thinking about you know
how much I want kids, how I want to raise
a family. You know, that's something you know at thirty four,
that's really on my mind. And you know, I froze
my eggs. I really prepared for that to happen tomorrow
or in five years. And I am, you know again,
(45:22):
like looking for someone to do that with and not desperately.
I'm not going to do that with someone that I'm
not crazy about. And if anything, you know, looking back
on past relationships, I see why I couldn't do that
with someone.
Speaker 3 (45:34):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (45:35):
So I'm just taking my life and my time more seriously,
and a part of that is closing the door to
the past.
Speaker 4 (45:43):
Well, I still struggle with Instagram talking, but here's to
a better tomorrow.
Speaker 2 (45:49):
I don't think that it's like evil or you're like bad,
or you're like not going to get what's coming for
you if you do it.
Speaker 3 (45:56):
I neither do I.
Speaker 2 (45:59):
No, I'm just saying it's not like it's evil or anything.
Speaker 3 (46:02):
I don't think you're that's what you were thinking.
Speaker 2 (46:05):
No, I'm just saying, like, I don't think it's like
smoking or something. I don't think it's like, oh, well
you better stop doing that. Like if you want to
have like a good relationship or like your partner that's
coming to you. I just mean for me, it was
something that I would do with longing, and I don't
have room to long for someone who didn't make me
(46:28):
a priority.
Speaker 4 (46:29):
Yes, and I but I see what you're saying, Like
even I unfollowed this person, like I don't I literally
don't even know who they are, Like I worked with
them like years ago, and it was just like they
posted like some kind of like just like bitchy review
about like a restaurant or something where I was like, okay,
like this is so negative and weird and why are
you Like I don't know, And I just was like
(46:50):
I so subconsciously take in all this stuff that like
makes me feel bad about myself, and I just like
passively am like yep, taking this in, taking that in,
And I do need to think more about that. I
also think, like along with the self compassion stuff, like
I think there's no comparison that is healthy, and like
(47:10):
I think it's hard not like when with Instagram and
stuff and social media, like it's hard not to just
like compare yourself, like I should be over this. That
person's dating someone new now, this is like whatever, and
it's like everyone's on their own journey and if you
can just like do your best today whether that's like, oh,
I searched him on Instagram once today as opposed to
(47:33):
three times yesterday. It's like, that's cool, that rules, And
I wish I had something more profound to say than that.
Speaker 2 (47:39):
But no, I think you're right. I like that no
comparison is healthy.
Speaker 3 (47:43):
I really do.
Speaker 2 (47:44):
I think that's really helpful for me to hear because
it's something that I still struggle with. And I think
my resolution for the future is to find a way
to bring this podcast back that goes without saying, you know,
I want to write something with you and continue our
creative journey together that's been you know, a decade plus. Yeah,
(48:06):
And I want to invest more time in friendships. You know,
I think the pandemic has made was really hey, hot take.
The pandemic was hard for me. I don't know if
if everyone else had a good time.
Speaker 4 (48:21):
And she's never even had COVID and still the pandemic
was well.
Speaker 2 (48:25):
But I think I've been on such a survival track
and so much of my social life was you know,
my exes, that I really want to invest in relationships
because I really think that you need those as a
(48:46):
woman to survive.
Speaker 4 (48:47):
Yes, And by the way, off that I think when
we were talking about summer house, like Lindsay goes outside
and the girls are like, come sit with us, like
talk us through this. Looking back, all of my most
formative experiences in relationships have been guided by like the
guardian angelship of my friends, if that makes sense. Like
(49:07):
I remember a time when I was like asking you,
like should I move to LA or stay and pursue
my career or stay with this like boyfriend that I've
had since I was twenty two where we're like fighting
all the time, and like all you said was like
you didn't tell me what to do, but you were like, oh,
this is like a podcast. I listened to a Cheryl
Strade podcast and I thought it was helpful and like
(49:29):
just like little pieces of support and advice that helped
me be like, Okay, what am I really thinking of
doing here? Like giving up what I believe in and
want for myself for this guy that I like can't
stop arguing with, and that like everything happens for a reason,
but tools really help, and like I think friends, sometimes
(49:52):
I get embarrassed for being too much of a burden
because I ask constantly for advice for my friends, But
it is a.
Speaker 3 (49:58):
Really really really id like tool.
Speaker 4 (50:01):
For me in terms of processing what's happening, like I'm
someone who has to talk it out, like this is
what just happened this morning, what do you think? And
that helps me see most importantly like my part in
something and second most importantly like how another person is
making me feel. And so my resolution is to not
feel guilty for asking for help. And number one number two,
(50:24):
like you said about deserving like a partner who's on
your team, Like, my resolution is to be my own.
Speaker 3 (50:31):
MVP.
Speaker 4 (50:32):
Sorry to be cheesy, but to be like my most
important team member to myself, like I'm defending myself.
Speaker 3 (50:39):
I'm staying with myself.
Speaker 4 (50:40):
I'm in my corner and I'm holding on to my
reality at all costs, and whether that reality is delusional
is up to me.
Speaker 3 (50:52):
And I'm love now.
Speaker 1 (50:54):
Thanks you've ruined my pool day, and thanks for ruining
my pool party.
Speaker 4 (50:59):
I'm gonna go cry and like the classic one of
the most one of the most iconic Lindsay lines in history,
I'm gonna go sleep in a bed with the guy
or what is it, I'm gonna I'm gonna go spend
the night in a.
Speaker 3 (51:12):
Bed with a guy.
Speaker 4 (51:14):
See how you feel about that, which is really not
something you should ever say to your romantic partner, but
is iconic.
Speaker 2 (51:21):
No, it's why she's iconic. It's why I can't wait
for the reunion. I can't wait to see what you
wears to the reunion. I have a feeling it will
be sheer.
Speaker 4 (51:30):
Well, maybe we should do a Patreon episode about the
two reunions.
Speaker 3 (51:35):
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (51:36):
I don't know, but this story isn't over.
Speaker 3 (51:39):
The story isn't over.
Speaker 4 (51:40):
And by the way, shameless plug, my substack is for
the drama dot substack dot com. That's the number for
the th drama d r A m A dot substack
dot com.
Speaker 2 (51:52):
Just by the way, and it's great. Thanks all right,
until next time, we will find you our listeners again
and we'll keep you posted. But in the meantime, and
it's hard to say this, no, but I love you Devin,
love you Carol, and I love all our listeners out there,
me too, love you guys. Thanks for tuning in.
Speaker 3 (52:14):
Ohted, I won't true true true suits, so romantic
Speaker 4 (52:37):
Love me, baby, don't leave me, haggin, I won't true