September 20, 2023 • 21 mins
Welcome to Unbreakable! A mental health podcast hosted by Fox NFL Insider Jay Glazer. On today’s episode, Jay sits down with Board-Certified Harvard/Yale trained psychiatrist and national accounts medical director at Carelon Behavioral Health, Dr. Jessica Chaudhary. Her knowledge and expertise make her the perfect guest to talk suicide prevention and awareness with.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:02):
This is Unbreakable with Jay Glacier, a mental health podcast
helping you out of the gray and into the blue.
Now here's Jay Glacier.
Speaker 2 (00:15):
Welcome and toom Breakable mental health podcast with Jay Glazier.
I'm Jay Glazier. And one of the things that I
love about this podcast is our title sponsor, Caroline. We
get to bring in their experts to you know, it's
a mental health podcast, so we're here to try and
help people out between the ears behind their ribcage.
Speaker 3 (00:30):
And look, I'm not a therapist, I'm not a doctor.
Speaker 2 (00:33):
I'm not a teacher who I am proudly messed up
and learning to be more proud of is messed up
and this and his scars, and I'm able to give
it words and you know, just a little word here
from Carolyn. If you're like many people, you may be
surprised to learn that one in five adults in this
country experience mental illness.
Speaker 3 (00:49):
Last year.
Speaker 2 (00:50):
You have far too many fellow receive the support they need.
Carolyn Beger Health is doing something about it. They understand
that behavioral health is a key part of whole health,
delivering compact a care that treats physical, mental, emotional, social,
needs in tandem Carolyn Behavioral Health raising the quality of
life through empathy and action. What I love about Carolyn
Baboral Health is I talk a lot about you having
(01:13):
to really build yourself up mind, body, spirit. That's exactly
what they're saying there. And our guests for Carol on
this time. This is our third guest from Carolyn is
doctor Jessica Chadri, a Board certified psychiatrist who completed her
medical training at the University of Washington School of Medicine.
Residency is Psychiatry at Yale and a fellowship and psychosomatic
(01:34):
medicine at Harvard. She specializes in psychiatric disorders. Is treated
patients with anxiety, depression, chest of compulsive disorders, substance use disorders,
bipolar disorders, basically everything that I've gone through, among other
psychiatric conditions. And she has an expertise in caring for
patients with co morbid psychiatrics and complex medical problems, and
(01:54):
has cared for patients across the lifespan. She is a
National accounts Medical director of Carolyn Behavioral Health and a
Fellow of the American Psychiatric Association.
Speaker 3 (02:04):
How to do there?
Speaker 4 (02:05):
That is quite a mouthful, isn't it. I'm right, you.
Speaker 3 (02:09):
Need me around all the time. I'm your right, mad thank.
Speaker 4 (02:12):
You, I surely do. I should take advantage of that offer.
Speaker 3 (02:16):
Just so you know a little bit about me.
Speaker 2 (02:18):
I have clinical depression, insomnia, ADHD, anxiety. Doctors keep going
back and forth on the bipolar or not, and since
I kind of want to choke them out because they
can't give him the right answer, I'm pretty sure bipolar
is in there too. I think I've been on thirty
six different meds and I'm just, you know, one of
those people who are medication were resistant unfortunately, and I'll
(02:39):
keep trying whereas they come.
Speaker 3 (02:40):
Out because I'll never stop trying. I'll never give up.
So I've had to try and figure out other ways
to stabilize myself between my years behind my dad, get
myself out of bed every day.
Speaker 2 (02:50):
And I thought it was important to do this podcast
and to do this book that I wrote, a breakable
to give mental health words because we could say it,
we could talk about mental health. But if you don't
have the word to discuss it and talk about it,
you know how we're supposed to really advance and get
the help that we need.
Speaker 3 (03:05):
So that's if there's one thing.
Speaker 2 (03:06):
God blessed me with the ability to communicate, So that's
what I'm trying to do on my end of it.
So I think that we're I'm able to talk about
it because my suffering, You're able to talk about it
because of your school and your success. And then we
come in the middle of the two of us together.
The world needs a lot more of this so we
can help a lot more people.
Speaker 5 (03:23):
Well, Jay, first of all, you know, thank you so
much for sharing your story and for giving me the
opportunity to have this platform to speak with you today,
to talk about mental health broadly, to try to destigmatize,
and just by putting some voices out there.
Speaker 4 (03:41):
You know, just you talking about it, I think.
Speaker 5 (03:44):
Will encourage other people to talk about what they've been
through as well.
Speaker 4 (03:49):
And you sound like you've had quite a journey with this.
Speaker 5 (03:52):
Yeah, so I you know, I'm wishing you ongoing success
with that. But I think it's important to understand just
how different, occult, and tricky these conditions can be, and
these diagnoses can be to treat, to diagnose, and to understand.
Speaker 4 (04:07):
And you know, I.
Speaker 5 (04:08):
Know today we want to talk a little bit about
suicide as well, and it is National Suicide Awareness Month
this month in September, which is just a really I
think fitting time to bring some more attention to this
topic and try to continue to destigmatize.
Speaker 2 (04:28):
I know, September Suicide Prevention Month, and I think every
month that has become that in a way, because I
think what's happened at least you know a lot of
veterans that I help with, a lot of football players
I help with this. I almost feel like suicide has
become basically a suggested outcome where whenever we have a
veteran of a teammate of event in our group of
(04:49):
merging vested players commit suicide.
Speaker 3 (04:52):
I always told the rest of the group, hey, be careful.
Speaker 2 (04:54):
Now, this is the time you have to be careful,
because you're all going to sit there and say, well, Johnny,
just of themselves and everybody's pouring out all this love
on Johnny. Well, my life stucks right out. I feel
in love. Why won't I do the same thing. It's
the power suggestion, That's what I want to tell these guys,
be careful, the power suggestion. I think that's what happened
is it's almost gotten glorified to a point where becomes
(05:15):
this power suggestion somebody else does it.
Speaker 3 (05:17):
We have this outpouring of love.
Speaker 2 (05:19):
Instead of oh no, no, no, no, this I guarantee
you this person who just took his life is and
whatever after life you believe in saying like.
Speaker 3 (05:27):
No, what have I done?
Speaker 2 (05:28):
I didn't need to leave these people with so much pain.
I didn't want to do that. So I just think
it's becoming so much more prevalent than just the month
of September.
Speaker 5 (05:36):
Well, I mean, you bring up a couple of really
important points in that message.
Speaker 4 (05:40):
So I want to offer in what you said.
Speaker 5 (05:44):
You said, you know, suicide has become sort of prevalent
to talk about, not just in September, right, It's important
we talk about these issues.
Speaker 4 (05:53):
And you know, I want to throw.
Speaker 5 (05:54):
A statistic out there that I just recently read that
I think is so powerful that the CDs just put
out there a few weeks ago, which said that nearly
fifty thousand people took their own lives in the United
States last year twenty twenty two. That is the highest
(06:14):
number ever according to CDC data. And one of the
things you talked about. And by the way, these you know,
these rates they've been they've been increasing now for quite
some time, really for decades, and even in a in
sort of a post COVID world, if you want to
call it, that, we're still we're seeing these rates are
(06:36):
still going up. And you know, one of the most
important messages that I want to convey to you is
while suicide can be a very impulsive act, it can
also be preventable. And we have built a program here
at Carolin Behavioral Health that tries to really put people
(07:00):
on a better trajectory before they reach a crisis point,
and we encourage people to talk about these issues. The
one takeaway that I hope anyone who's listening to this
podcast will take from this is talking about suicide does not.
Speaker 4 (07:21):
Lead to suicide.
Speaker 5 (07:23):
It actually only helps facilitate prevention and giving people the
resources that they might need. And so I'd be happy
to talk with you more about the program, but we're
really trying to take a more proactive approach before people
reach a crisis point.
Speaker 3 (07:40):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (07:41):
I think too many times you see, you're right when
you see someone suicide.
Speaker 3 (07:46):
It's not that they were giving a lot of warning
sides and just do it.
Speaker 2 (07:49):
Those who are talking about it, you're able to get
them some help and walk them through and get them
the proper care so they'll ultimately make that unfortunate decision right.
Speaker 5 (07:59):
And there is there is a bit of a difference
between prevention, which which we know suicide can be prevented
in some circumstances, and also just prediction. Predicting suicide is
actually it's quite tough.
Speaker 4 (08:13):
Even the best experts.
Speaker 5 (08:15):
Out there feel, you know, there's there's fifty to fifty chances.
But what we've done, and I think this is really
cutting edge, is we have built a predictive algorithm that's
taken into account actually over over nine hundred potential factors
(08:35):
in which suicide risk is assessed. So what that means
from from our standpoint is people that maybe have certain
risk factors, like they may be on certain types of medications,
they may have had prior suicide attempts, they may have
been in the mental health care system for one reason
(08:57):
or another, or they have some difficult soul situations or circumstances,
or they may be part of a high risk group
of people. You've talked about that a little bit too,
but people maybe that have experienced homelessness, or have been
a victim of abuse, or have been treated.
Speaker 4 (09:16):
For anxiety or depression.
Speaker 5 (09:18):
I mean, these are just some of the risk factors
that we look at and we try to provide some
predictive outreach through case management for these very high risk people.
And not only do we offer case management services, we
also have what we call peer wellness and recovery specialists.
(09:38):
And what those people are are people that have lived
experience with mental health issues and problems and have gone
through these kinds of issues themselves and they can talk
to our members and give them some hope.
Speaker 3 (09:54):
And I want people to understand that.
Speaker 2 (09:55):
Look for me, Okay, my level of depression anxiety is
deep in. It's from birth and I don't know any
other way to live. So I call it living in
the gray, and it's every single morning I wake up.
And some nights before or worse than others were like
I will never commit suicide because I'm not gonna do
that to my son, for my fiance, I'm not gonna
(10:16):
leave the I'm just not gonna leave them with my problems.
But there's days you do go to bed going man,
I really hope that sun doesn't come up the next day.
And I think a lot of it though for a
lot of us, we are getting confused with mental illness.
Speaker 3 (10:30):
And problems, you know, and you know, our.
Speaker 2 (10:33):
Problems are making us feel like we have a mental illness,
but instead we just can't deal with life. So we're
just trying to boil out. And that to me is
that's what we can't do. You never know what lives
around next Tuesday. You never know when all of a sudden,
this next Tuesday, your life could suddenly change, your dreams
could change.
Speaker 3 (10:48):
You can meet.
Speaker 2 (10:48):
I'm fifty three. I just met and got engaged to
the love of my life. It's never too late. So
I want people to try to separate their problems from
their mental health. You know, illness, mental illness, and I
got problems, right, and I think they're getting a little
bit too confused to murky, how do you guys go
about making sure you separate those two.
Speaker 4 (11:09):
Yeah, you know, that's that's a really interesting question.
Speaker 5 (11:11):
Let me tell you, you know, Jay, we all got problems, right,
every single one of us have got problems.
Speaker 4 (11:18):
And you know it's it's.
Speaker 3 (11:20):
Very problems become a big reason right people, absolutely.
Speaker 5 (11:24):
And actually in some ways, you know, the pandemic has
also highlighted these financial concerns for people and has also
really I think, you know, with the with the problems
around the crises that people have experienced in their family
lives and their jobs, general ongoing fatigue, I mean, that's
(11:45):
also contributed to all of this and the general uncertainty.
But you asked, you know, how do we separate problems
from mental illness?
Speaker 4 (11:55):
Right?
Speaker 5 (11:56):
And I think it's really important to have some perspective
around this first of all, and trying to understand, you know, are.
Speaker 4 (12:05):
These problems can they can they be solved?
Speaker 5 (12:08):
You know, and really trying to put your wrap your
head around that and trying to When I say perspective,
what I mean is, you know, for a lot of people,
something that could be a relatively small problem or that
can be dealt with becomes a very major issue for them.
And this happens for me too. I mean I'm not
I'm not sort of isolating myself from this. So you
(12:32):
have to, number one, really try to keep things in
perspective and work through them one by one. It's very
easy to become overwhelmed by problems, but if you try
to piece them out a little bit, they may become
more solvable.
Speaker 4 (12:48):
Now, what does what does mental illness look like?
Speaker 5 (12:52):
Or how do you know that things maybe are not
These aren't just problems, but there's something else going on.
And particular, if someone is at danger for something like suicide,
when when you start to see that, you have to
think about what are some of the risk factors or
the warning signs, right, and what that looks like is
(13:13):
is a change from the norm for that person and
that that's sustained, whether that's.
Speaker 6 (13:19):
Changes in sleep, changes in eating patterns, changes in mood
and behavior like anger or hostility that's out of character,
or increased agitation or really withdrawing or feeling socially isolated,
you know, displaying mood swings.
Speaker 4 (13:40):
And then when you think more about suicide, you.
Speaker 5 (13:43):
Know, are people talking about feeling trapped or being an
unbearable pain or feeling like they're a burden? Are they
turning to drugs or alcohol more, are they feeling or
voicing hopelessness or suggesting that they have no reason to live?
You know, those kinds of signs, especially again, what's different
(14:06):
from what's what's the norm for that person can become
very worrisome and can be pointing more towards towards mental illness.
Speaker 2 (14:16):
Give me some of the tools you think are most
important for people to properly deal with mental health issues.
I'm always trying to learn that's that's the way for me. Like,
I'm on this journey because meds don't work for me,
so I have to find everything else that you know,
work for me.
Speaker 3 (14:30):
So I'm always looking to learn new things.
Speaker 5 (14:33):
Yeah, and you know, actually you talk about meds, meds,
meds is it's one tool in the toolkit, right. There
are a number of different tools out there. There's therapy
and different forms of therapy, and sometimes that therapy doesn't
always necessarily have to be with a professional. There's informal
(14:55):
therapy that happens, you know, with community members, with their friends.
A lot of people will say, well, hey, I'm not
a therapist, but if you want my opinion on this
or that, and you know, those are some forms of
helping to deal with what you may be going through.
There's also, of course, you know, behavioral techniques that can
(15:17):
be used, and that's really different for different people. But
it's really important to understand what is most crucial for
you to keep yourself afloat. You know, whether that means
winding down at the end of the night with a
good TV show, whether that means doing some exercise, whether
(15:39):
that means doing yoga and meditation and learning mindfulness. You know,
that's very individual, but some of those tools, like for example,
learning mindfulness really help to build resilience. And building resilience
is a very powerful thing when dealing with not only
(16:00):
you know, mental health challenges, but also the general problems
that you've talked about. And of course, you know, if
as I always just want to communicate, it's it's important
to talk about what you're feeling, to try to destigmatize.
Speaker 4 (16:14):
It, and to try to get the help that you need,
and especially.
Speaker 5 (16:18):
For somebody that might be worried about somebody who could
be suicidal. You know, utilizing our nine to eight eight
suicide Prevention Lifeline is also a really you know, really
important and beneficial tool that's out there now.
Speaker 2 (16:31):
I want people to know when you call nine eighty eight,
they're not automatically sending nambulance to your house coming to
get you.
Speaker 3 (16:37):
That's not happening. I just went through this. I actually
just did it for the first time. That's something we.
Speaker 2 (16:41):
Call a close friend of mine who was dealing with
her friend and didn't really know.
Speaker 3 (16:46):
The proper things to say or not I said, well,
you'd all probably not the.
Speaker 2 (16:49):
Right guy either. Should you have a therapist? I said,
I'm a therapist on vacation. I said, you know what,
why don't you call nine eight eight, tell them problem,
have them walking through what you need to say to her.
So I want people to understand, if you call ninety eight,
you're not automatically having people police and abulances come right
to your house.
Speaker 3 (17:05):
They're there to give you the proper guidance as well. Correct.
Speaker 5 (17:08):
Absolutely, And it's just it's another tool, right, especially if
someone is really if you're worried, right, if you're worried
someone's in crisis, it's another tool. So those are jeels
are just some of the techniques and tools that are available.
You know, for many people, as you've highlighted mental wellness,
it's a journey. You know, it takes time to get
(17:30):
there and to stay there, right, it takes time and effort,
But we've got to keep doing everything we can to
make it a priority.
Speaker 2 (17:38):
For folks out there who you know kind of believe
their friends and family are suffering from depression anxiety, how
do you suggest what the best approach for them toward
this topic so they can try to get them to
see killed.
Speaker 5 (17:51):
You know, I think that's a really really important question.
So number one, you know, don't don't be afraid to ask.
I'll say it again because this is such an important
message I want to get across. Talking about suicide, talking
about mental health problems does not lead to them. It's
important that you point them to resources, that you're there
(18:13):
with them on their journey, but most importantly that you're listening.
Speaker 4 (18:18):
You're listening to.
Speaker 5 (18:19):
Their story, you're offering validation and making sure they understand
that they're not alone. And then, as you know, we've
gone through some of the things to watch out for
some of those risk factors, and if you do see
some of those changes or changes in the norm and
you're really getting worried or this has become sustained.
Speaker 4 (18:39):
Get help for that person. But I think offering that
ear and that.
Speaker 5 (18:45):
Compassion are some of the most important things that we
can do for other people.
Speaker 2 (18:50):
Yeah, every time I have opened up to a friend
of mine, it's just gotten as closer together. And now
for people out there, I think you've heard me say
this in the past. The tools I now use what
I'm really struggling. I will call four friends and tell
them I am really struggling, and none of them shunned
away from me or shied away.
Speaker 3 (19:07):
They've all embraced me more. It's made our relationship closer.
Speaker 2 (19:10):
Then I'll call four other people just to check up
on them without telling them struggling, because that's my way
of being of service. And being of service is one
of the other tools that I have in much she
wants tell me through my gray So for anybody listening
out there, it's a really easy way for you to
get yourself in a little bit better mind state. But
it really goes here what Doc says about reaching out
(19:31):
and talking to someone. Your people want to be there,
they want to lift you up, they want to be
an ear for you. You're not being a burden to them.
It actually makes them feel like a better family member
or a better friend at the same time.
Speaker 5 (19:42):
Yeah, and what a terrific story. And you know, I'll
just add, when you give back and you provide that
service to other people and you show your showing gratitude,
and that gratitude is what helps you build your own
res bilience too, And that's that's such a that's such
(20:03):
a great story. I hope people will take that away.
Speaker 3 (20:05):
Doc thank you so much for joining.
Speaker 2 (20:07):
Asking Doctor Jessica Chaudry board sertified psychiatrists who completed medical
training at the University of Washington School Medicine also stops
in Yale Harvard, places that I could really spell when
I was going to college.
Speaker 3 (20:20):
So I really appreciate you joining us today.
Speaker 4 (20:23):
It's been my pleasure. Thank you so much.
Speaker 3 (20:26):
Anything else you want to add before I let you
go that I did not ask?
Speaker 5 (20:29):
You know? The only one you know? The only other
one thing I'll say about all this is.
Speaker 4 (20:36):
When we talk about.
Speaker 5 (20:37):
These issues, which are of such critical importance, we are
helping to destigmatize and that stigma that people still have
around mental health is still very powerful.
Speaker 4 (20:53):
So if we can keep talking about these.
Speaker 5 (20:55):
Issues, whether they're in our families, our communities, our social settings, schools,
places of worship, sports teams, if we understand these issues,
we are going to have greater and greater acceptance of
these issues. And that's really my ultimate goal with all
of this.
Speaker 2 (21:15):
One of the biggest things that's helped me, doc, is
to realize you the majority. Now I'm no longer the minority.
And once you do that, then really does erase the
stigma you don't have to suffer in silence. You're like, oh,
there's so many other people in the room just like me.
It doesn't make you feel as different or as damaged
as I used to growing up. So now I really
believe I'm in the majority and that's helped me a lot.
Speaker 4 (21:37):
Yeah, thank you so much for sharing your story, Doctor
Speaker 3 (21:40):
Jessica Childry from Carol Mavior, I'll thank you so much.
This is Unbreakable with Jay Glacier, a mental health podcast
helping you out of the gray and into the blue.
Now here's Jay Glacier.
Speaker 2 (00:15):
Welcome and toom Breakable mental health podcast with Jay Glazier.
I'm Jay Glazier. And one of the things that I
love about this podcast is our title sponsor, Caroline. We
get to bring in their experts to you know, it's
a mental health podcast, so we're here to try and
help people out between the ears behind their ribcage.
Speaker 3 (00:30):
And look, I'm not a therapist, I'm not a doctor.
Speaker 2 (00:33):
I'm not a teacher who I am proudly messed up
and learning to be more proud of is messed up
and this and his scars, and I'm able to give
it words and you know, just a little word here
from Carolyn. If you're like many people, you may be
surprised to learn that one in five adults in this
country experience mental illness.
Speaker 3 (00:49):
Last year.
Speaker 2 (00:50):
You have far too many fellow receive the support they need.
Carolyn Beger Health is doing something about it. They understand
that behavioral health is a key part of whole health,
delivering compact a care that treats physical, mental, emotional, social,
needs in tandem Carolyn Behavioral Health raising the quality of
life through empathy and action. What I love about Carolyn
Baboral Health is I talk a lot about you having
(01:13):
to really build yourself up mind, body, spirit. That's exactly
what they're saying there. And our guests for Carol on
this time. This is our third guest from Carolyn is
doctor Jessica Chadri, a Board certified psychiatrist who completed her
medical training at the University of Washington School of Medicine.
Residency is Psychiatry at Yale and a fellowship and psychosomatic
(01:34):
medicine at Harvard. She specializes in psychiatric disorders. Is treated
patients with anxiety, depression, chest of compulsive disorders, substance use disorders,
bipolar disorders, basically everything that I've gone through, among other
psychiatric conditions. And she has an expertise in caring for
patients with co morbid psychiatrics and complex medical problems, and
(01:54):
has cared for patients across the lifespan. She is a
National accounts Medical director of Carolyn Behavioral Health and a
Fellow of the American Psychiatric Association.
Speaker 3 (02:04):
How to do there?
Speaker 4 (02:05):
That is quite a mouthful, isn't it. I'm right, you.
Speaker 3 (02:09):
Need me around all the time. I'm your right, mad thank.
Speaker 4 (02:12):
You, I surely do. I should take advantage of that offer.
Speaker 3 (02:16):
Just so you know a little bit about me.
Speaker 2 (02:18):
I have clinical depression, insomnia, ADHD, anxiety. Doctors keep going
back and forth on the bipolar or not, and since
I kind of want to choke them out because they
can't give him the right answer, I'm pretty sure bipolar
is in there too. I think I've been on thirty
six different meds and I'm just, you know, one of
those people who are medication were resistant unfortunately, and I'll
(02:39):
keep trying whereas they come.
Speaker 3 (02:40):
Out because I'll never stop trying. I'll never give up.
So I've had to try and figure out other ways
to stabilize myself between my years behind my dad, get
myself out of bed every day.
Speaker 2 (02:50):
And I thought it was important to do this podcast
and to do this book that I wrote, a breakable
to give mental health words because we could say it,
we could talk about mental health. But if you don't
have the word to discuss it and talk about it,
you know how we're supposed to really advance and get
the help that we need.
Speaker 3 (03:05):
So that's if there's one thing.
Speaker 2 (03:06):
God blessed me with the ability to communicate, So that's
what I'm trying to do on my end of it.
So I think that we're I'm able to talk about
it because my suffering, You're able to talk about it
because of your school and your success. And then we
come in the middle of the two of us together.
The world needs a lot more of this so we
can help a lot more people.
Speaker 5 (03:23):
Well, Jay, first of all, you know, thank you so
much for sharing your story and for giving me the
opportunity to have this platform to speak with you today,
to talk about mental health broadly, to try to destigmatize,
and just by putting some voices out there.
Speaker 4 (03:41):
You know, just you talking about it, I think.
Speaker 5 (03:44):
Will encourage other people to talk about what they've been
through as well.
Speaker 4 (03:49):
And you sound like you've had quite a journey with this.
Speaker 5 (03:52):
Yeah, so I you know, I'm wishing you ongoing success
with that. But I think it's important to understand just
how different, occult, and tricky these conditions can be, and
these diagnoses can be to treat, to diagnose, and to understand.
Speaker 4 (04:07):
And you know, I.
Speaker 5 (04:08):
Know today we want to talk a little bit about
suicide as well, and it is National Suicide Awareness Month
this month in September, which is just a really I
think fitting time to bring some more attention to this
topic and try to continue to destigmatize.
Speaker 2 (04:28):
I know, September Suicide Prevention Month, and I think every
month that has become that in a way, because I
think what's happened at least you know a lot of
veterans that I help with, a lot of football players
I help with this. I almost feel like suicide has
become basically a suggested outcome where whenever we have a
veteran of a teammate of event in our group of
(04:49):
merging vested players commit suicide.
Speaker 3 (04:52):
I always told the rest of the group, hey, be careful.
Speaker 2 (04:54):
Now, this is the time you have to be careful,
because you're all going to sit there and say, well, Johnny,
just of themselves and everybody's pouring out all this love
on Johnny. Well, my life stucks right out. I feel
in love. Why won't I do the same thing. It's
the power suggestion, That's what I want to tell these guys,
be careful, the power suggestion. I think that's what happened
is it's almost gotten glorified to a point where becomes
(05:15):
this power suggestion somebody else does it.
Speaker 3 (05:17):
We have this outpouring of love.
Speaker 2 (05:19):
Instead of oh no, no, no, no, this I guarantee
you this person who just took his life is and
whatever after life you believe in saying like.
Speaker 3 (05:27):
No, what have I done?
Speaker 2 (05:28):
I didn't need to leave these people with so much pain.
I didn't want to do that. So I just think
it's becoming so much more prevalent than just the month
of September.
Speaker 5 (05:36):
Well, I mean, you bring up a couple of really
important points in that message.
Speaker 4 (05:40):
So I want to offer in what you said.
Speaker 5 (05:44):
You said, you know, suicide has become sort of prevalent
to talk about, not just in September, right, It's important
we talk about these issues.
Speaker 4 (05:53):
And you know, I want to throw.
Speaker 5 (05:54):
A statistic out there that I just recently read that
I think is so powerful that the CDs just put
out there a few weeks ago, which said that nearly
fifty thousand people took their own lives in the United
States last year twenty twenty two. That is the highest
(06:14):
number ever according to CDC data. And one of the
things you talked about. And by the way, these you know,
these rates they've been they've been increasing now for quite
some time, really for decades, and even in a in
sort of a post COVID world, if you want to
call it, that, we're still we're seeing these rates are
(06:36):
still going up. And you know, one of the most
important messages that I want to convey to you is
while suicide can be a very impulsive act, it can
also be preventable. And we have built a program here
at Carolin Behavioral Health that tries to really put people
(07:00):
on a better trajectory before they reach a crisis point,
and we encourage people to talk about these issues. The
one takeaway that I hope anyone who's listening to this
podcast will take from this is talking about suicide does not.
Speaker 4 (07:21):
Lead to suicide.
Speaker 5 (07:23):
It actually only helps facilitate prevention and giving people the
resources that they might need. And so I'd be happy
to talk with you more about the program, but we're
really trying to take a more proactive approach before people
reach a crisis point.
Speaker 3 (07:40):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (07:41):
I think too many times you see, you're right when
you see someone suicide.
Speaker 3 (07:46):
It's not that they were giving a lot of warning
sides and just do it.
Speaker 2 (07:49):
Those who are talking about it, you're able to get
them some help and walk them through and get them
the proper care so they'll ultimately make that unfortunate decision right.
Speaker 5 (07:59):
And there is there is a bit of a difference
between prevention, which which we know suicide can be prevented
in some circumstances, and also just prediction. Predicting suicide is
actually it's quite tough.
Speaker 4 (08:13):
Even the best experts.
Speaker 5 (08:15):
Out there feel, you know, there's there's fifty to fifty chances.
But what we've done, and I think this is really
cutting edge, is we have built a predictive algorithm that's
taken into account actually over over nine hundred potential factors
(08:35):
in which suicide risk is assessed. So what that means
from from our standpoint is people that maybe have certain
risk factors, like they may be on certain types of medications,
they may have had prior suicide attempts, they may have
been in the mental health care system for one reason
(08:57):
or another, or they have some difficult soul situations or circumstances,
or they may be part of a high risk group
of people. You've talked about that a little bit too,
but people maybe that have experienced homelessness, or have been
a victim of abuse, or have been treated.
Speaker 4 (09:16):
For anxiety or depression.
Speaker 5 (09:18):
I mean, these are just some of the risk factors
that we look at and we try to provide some
predictive outreach through case management for these very high risk people.
And not only do we offer case management services, we
also have what we call peer wellness and recovery specialists.
(09:38):
And what those people are are people that have lived
experience with mental health issues and problems and have gone
through these kinds of issues themselves and they can talk
to our members and give them some hope.
Speaker 3 (09:54):
And I want people to understand that.
Speaker 2 (09:55):
Look for me, Okay, my level of depression anxiety is
deep in. It's from birth and I don't know any
other way to live. So I call it living in
the gray, and it's every single morning I wake up.
And some nights before or worse than others were like
I will never commit suicide because I'm not gonna do
that to my son, for my fiance, I'm not gonna
(10:16):
leave the I'm just not gonna leave them with my problems.
But there's days you do go to bed going man,
I really hope that sun doesn't come up the next day.
And I think a lot of it though for a
lot of us, we are getting confused with mental illness.
Speaker 3 (10:30):
And problems, you know, and you know, our.
Speaker 2 (10:33):
Problems are making us feel like we have a mental illness,
but instead we just can't deal with life. So we're
just trying to boil out. And that to me is
that's what we can't do. You never know what lives
around next Tuesday. You never know when all of a sudden,
this next Tuesday, your life could suddenly change, your dreams
could change.
Speaker 3 (10:48):
You can meet.
Speaker 2 (10:48):
I'm fifty three. I just met and got engaged to
the love of my life. It's never too late. So
I want people to try to separate their problems from
their mental health. You know, illness, mental illness, and I
got problems, right, and I think they're getting a little
bit too confused to murky, how do you guys go
about making sure you separate those two.
Speaker 4 (11:09):
Yeah, you know, that's that's a really interesting question.
Speaker 5 (11:11):
Let me tell you, you know, Jay, we all got problems, right,
every single one of us have got problems.
Speaker 4 (11:18):
And you know it's it's.
Speaker 3 (11:20):
Very problems become a big reason right people, absolutely.
Speaker 5 (11:24):
And actually in some ways, you know, the pandemic has
also highlighted these financial concerns for people and has also
really I think, you know, with the with the problems
around the crises that people have experienced in their family
lives and their jobs, general ongoing fatigue, I mean, that's
(11:45):
also contributed to all of this and the general uncertainty.
But you asked, you know, how do we separate problems
from mental illness?
Speaker 4 (11:55):
Right?
Speaker 5 (11:56):
And I think it's really important to have some perspective
around this first of all, and trying to understand, you know, are.
Speaker 4 (12:05):
These problems can they can they be solved?
Speaker 5 (12:08):
You know, and really trying to put your wrap your
head around that and trying to When I say perspective,
what I mean is, you know, for a lot of people,
something that could be a relatively small problem or that
can be dealt with becomes a very major issue for them.
And this happens for me too. I mean I'm not
I'm not sort of isolating myself from this. So you
(12:32):
have to, number one, really try to keep things in
perspective and work through them one by one. It's very
easy to become overwhelmed by problems, but if you try
to piece them out a little bit, they may become
more solvable.
Speaker 4 (12:48):
Now, what does what does mental illness look like?
Speaker 5 (12:52):
Or how do you know that things maybe are not
These aren't just problems, but there's something else going on.
And particular, if someone is at danger for something like suicide,
when when you start to see that, you have to
think about what are some of the risk factors or
the warning signs, right, and what that looks like is
(13:13):
is a change from the norm for that person and
that that's sustained, whether that's.
Speaker 6 (13:19):
Changes in sleep, changes in eating patterns, changes in mood
and behavior like anger or hostility that's out of character,
or increased agitation or really withdrawing or feeling socially isolated,
you know, displaying mood swings.
Speaker 4 (13:40):
And then when you think more about suicide, you.
Speaker 5 (13:43):
Know, are people talking about feeling trapped or being an
unbearable pain or feeling like they're a burden? Are they
turning to drugs or alcohol more, are they feeling or
voicing hopelessness or suggesting that they have no reason to live?
You know, those kinds of signs, especially again, what's different
(14:06):
from what's what's the norm for that person can become
very worrisome and can be pointing more towards towards mental illness.
Speaker 2 (14:16):
Give me some of the tools you think are most
important for people to properly deal with mental health issues.
I'm always trying to learn that's that's the way for me. Like,
I'm on this journey because meds don't work for me,
so I have to find everything else that you know,
work for me.
Speaker 3 (14:30):
So I'm always looking to learn new things.
Speaker 5 (14:33):
Yeah, and you know, actually you talk about meds, meds,
meds is it's one tool in the toolkit, right. There
are a number of different tools out there. There's therapy
and different forms of therapy, and sometimes that therapy doesn't
always necessarily have to be with a professional. There's informal
(14:55):
therapy that happens, you know, with community members, with their friends.
A lot of people will say, well, hey, I'm not
a therapist, but if you want my opinion on this
or that, and you know, those are some forms of
helping to deal with what you may be going through.
There's also, of course, you know, behavioral techniques that can
(15:17):
be used, and that's really different for different people. But
it's really important to understand what is most crucial for
you to keep yourself afloat. You know, whether that means
winding down at the end of the night with a
good TV show, whether that means doing some exercise, whether
(15:39):
that means doing yoga and meditation and learning mindfulness. You know,
that's very individual, but some of those tools, like for example,
learning mindfulness really help to build resilience. And building resilience
is a very powerful thing when dealing with not only
(16:00):
you know, mental health challenges, but also the general problems
that you've talked about. And of course, you know, if
as I always just want to communicate, it's it's important
to talk about what you're feeling, to try to destigmatize.
Speaker 4 (16:14):
It, and to try to get the help that you need,
and especially.
Speaker 5 (16:18):
For somebody that might be worried about somebody who could
be suicidal. You know, utilizing our nine to eight eight
suicide Prevention Lifeline is also a really you know, really
important and beneficial tool that's out there now.
Speaker 2 (16:31):
I want people to know when you call nine eighty eight,
they're not automatically sending nambulance to your house coming to
get you.
Speaker 3 (16:37):
That's not happening. I just went through this. I actually
just did it for the first time. That's something we.
Speaker 2 (16:41):
Call a close friend of mine who was dealing with
her friend and didn't really know.
Speaker 3 (16:46):
The proper things to say or not I said, well,
you'd all probably not the.
Speaker 2 (16:49):
Right guy either. Should you have a therapist? I said,
I'm a therapist on vacation. I said, you know what,
why don't you call nine eight eight, tell them problem,
have them walking through what you need to say to her.
So I want people to understand, if you call ninety eight,
you're not automatically having people police and abulances come right
to your house.
Speaker 3 (17:05):
They're there to give you the proper guidance as well. Correct.
Speaker 5 (17:08):
Absolutely, And it's just it's another tool, right, especially if
someone is really if you're worried, right, if you're worried
someone's in crisis, it's another tool. So those are jeels
are just some of the techniques and tools that are available.
You know, for many people, as you've highlighted mental wellness,
it's a journey. You know, it takes time to get
(17:30):
there and to stay there, right, it takes time and effort,
But we've got to keep doing everything we can to
make it a priority.
Speaker 2 (17:38):
For folks out there who you know kind of believe
their friends and family are suffering from depression anxiety, how
do you suggest what the best approach for them toward
this topic so they can try to get them to
see killed.
Speaker 5 (17:51):
You know, I think that's a really really important question.
So number one, you know, don't don't be afraid to ask.
I'll say it again because this is such an important
message I want to get across. Talking about suicide, talking
about mental health problems does not lead to them. It's
important that you point them to resources, that you're there
(18:13):
with them on their journey, but most importantly that you're listening.
Speaker 4 (18:18):
You're listening to.
Speaker 5 (18:19):
Their story, you're offering validation and making sure they understand
that they're not alone. And then, as you know, we've
gone through some of the things to watch out for
some of those risk factors, and if you do see
some of those changes or changes in the norm and
you're really getting worried or this has become sustained.
Speaker 4 (18:39):
Get help for that person. But I think offering that
ear and that.
Speaker 5 (18:45):
Compassion are some of the most important things that we
can do for other people.
Speaker 2 (18:50):
Yeah, every time I have opened up to a friend
of mine, it's just gotten as closer together. And now
for people out there, I think you've heard me say
this in the past. The tools I now use what
I'm really struggling. I will call four friends and tell
them I am really struggling, and none of them shunned
away from me or shied away.
Speaker 3 (19:07):
They've all embraced me more. It's made our relationship closer.
Speaker 2 (19:10):
Then I'll call four other people just to check up
on them without telling them struggling, because that's my way
of being of service. And being of service is one
of the other tools that I have in much she
wants tell me through my gray So for anybody listening
out there, it's a really easy way for you to
get yourself in a little bit better mind state. But
it really goes here what Doc says about reaching out
(19:31):
and talking to someone. Your people want to be there,
they want to lift you up, they want to be
an ear for you. You're not being a burden to them.
It actually makes them feel like a better family member
or a better friend at the same time.
Speaker 5 (19:42):
Yeah, and what a terrific story. And you know, I'll
just add, when you give back and you provide that
service to other people and you show your showing gratitude,
and that gratitude is what helps you build your own
res bilience too, And that's that's such a that's such
(20:03):
a great story. I hope people will take that away.
Speaker 3 (20:05):
Doc thank you so much for joining.
Speaker 2 (20:07):
Asking Doctor Jessica Chaudry board sertified psychiatrists who completed medical
training at the University of Washington School Medicine also stops
in Yale Harvard, places that I could really spell when
I was going to college.
Speaker 3 (20:20):
So I really appreciate you joining us today.
Speaker 4 (20:23):
It's been my pleasure. Thank you so much.
Speaker 3 (20:26):
Anything else you want to add before I let you
go that I did not ask?
Speaker 5 (20:29):
You know? The only one you know? The only other
one thing I'll say about all this is.
Speaker 4 (20:36):
When we talk about.
Speaker 5 (20:37):
These issues, which are of such critical importance, we are
helping to destigmatize and that stigma that people still have
around mental health is still very powerful.
Speaker 4 (20:53):
So if we can keep talking about these.
Speaker 5 (20:55):
Issues, whether they're in our families, our communities, our social settings, schools,
places of worship, sports teams, if we understand these issues,
we are going to have greater and greater acceptance of
these issues. And that's really my ultimate goal with all
of this.
Speaker 2 (21:15):
One of the biggest things that's helped me, doc, is
to realize you the majority. Now I'm no longer the minority.
And once you do that, then really does erase the
stigma you don't have to suffer in silence. You're like, oh,
there's so many other people in the room just like me.
It doesn't make you feel as different or as damaged
as I used to growing up. So now I really
believe I'm in the majority and that's helped me a lot.
Speaker 4 (21:37):
Yeah, thank you so much for sharing your story, Doctor
Speaker 3 (21:40):
Jessica Childry from Carol Mavior, I'll thank you so much.
Host
Jay Glazer
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