June 19, 2024 • 40 mins
Welcome to Unbreakable! A mental wealth podcast hosted by Fox NFL Insider Jay Glazer. On today’s episode, Jay goes inside the mind of the most interesting man in the world George Mumford, the Performance Whisperer. Known as Phil Jackson’s ‘Secret Weapon' Mumford is a globally recognized speaker, teacher, and pioneer in sports psychology and performance. He helped Michael Jordan transform his leadership, and taught Kobe Bryant to “just be.” Mumford is also a BIG reason why the Edmonton Oilers are in the Stanley Cup Final. Oh, and he roomed with Dr. J, Julius Erving!
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:02):
This is Unbreakable with Jay Glacier, a mental wealth podcast,
build you from the inside out. Now here's Jay Glacier.
Speaker 2 (00:14):
Welcome into Unbreakable, a mental wealth podcast with Jay Glazer.
I'm Jay Glazer and the purpose of the podcast is
to used to be called a mental health podcast.
Speaker 3 (00:23):
But if we build our mental health, I've realized that's
mental wealth. That's the key. That's what we're going for here.
Speaker 2 (00:28):
So I try and bring on guests from all different
areas of life. Haven't had anybody on yet. It works
at the NHL now I'm just tying it into here
because forget the Dozeki's man.
Speaker 3 (00:38):
This guy is probably the most interesting man in the world.
Speaker 2 (00:41):
Is George Mumford aka the Mindfulness performance Whip her. He
has worked with the likes of the Chicago Bulls and
Michael Jordan and Phil Jackson back then and Kobe and
Shack with the Lakers as well, but also now the
Edmonton Oilers with the NHL, and I'm just fascinated by
this cat, and hey, if I can learn something from him,
we could all learn something from him.
Speaker 3 (01:02):
And that's why we're here. George Steck for joining me.
Speaker 4 (01:04):
Man, I appreciate that I see a hardway you have
behind you.
Speaker 5 (01:07):
Man, those are two of my favorite teams.
Speaker 3 (01:09):
Oh they got packers in the.
Speaker 5 (01:12):
Yes, yes, you know what they are.
Speaker 2 (01:14):
Actually I got People always ask me like there's autographs
on here. I've never asked for an autograph of my
entire life, but my son Sammy, when he was growing up.
I adopted my son, and so I want the greatness
cheering him on throughout his life.
Speaker 3 (01:27):
So all my friends in the NFL, I got them
to sign.
Speaker 2 (01:29):
Things to him, and not just a signature, but saying something,
you know, something that that could just cheer him on
for the rest of his life. Is now twenty one,
you're gonna see Arizona And we just found these in
stories recently when my wife and I moved.
Speaker 3 (01:45):
So it's pretty cool to see a lot.
Speaker 2 (01:46):
Of the a lot of people are still really close
close with but they've been cheering him on his whole
life as it is.
Speaker 3 (01:51):
So it's pretty cool.
Speaker 5 (01:52):
Well that's awesome.
Speaker 2 (01:53):
So I want to get into first of all, man,
there's so many ways to start. I guess we'll start
here with the Edmonton Oilers right, Stanley Cup team right here,
you got brought in this year, but also you've done
so much in the past, kind of give us an
overview of what you do for these teams that makes
you so valuable, because I've been told that you're like
the secret weapon for all these franchises.
Speaker 5 (02:15):
Yes, well, it's really simple.
Speaker 4 (02:17):
I wrote two books of mind for athletes, Seek for
the Pure Performance, that came out in twenty fifteen, and
I wrote one that came out a year ago May second,
and it's titled Unlocked and Embrace your Greatness, Find the Flow,
Discover Success.
Speaker 5 (02:31):
That's what I do. How I do it.
Speaker 3 (02:33):
Yeah, let's start with the Oilers and they'll work backwards.
Speaker 2 (02:35):
We go to the Blakers and go to the Bulls
and some of the Kobe and the Michael Jordans that
you've worked with.
Speaker 3 (02:40):
Let's start with the Oilers.
Speaker 5 (02:41):
Yes.
Speaker 4 (02:42):
So I got approached by Jeff Jackson. He became the
CEO of Hockey Operations in August, and out of a
whim he reached out to me. I think it was
LinkedIn and I responded to him and he approached me
and he said, you know, I've read Phil's book, you know,
Eleven Rings. And then I wrote, you, I read your book,
(03:03):
and it occurred to me that the Bulls were in
a similar situation that we were in, although they had
already won two championships when I when I, when I
had gone there, they had they had the two of
the best players in the you know, in the n
b A Michael Jordan and Scottie Pippen. And we have
the two of the best players in the NHL economy
David and Leon Drisidle.
Speaker 5 (03:23):
And he said, I think you can help us win
a cup? Are you interested? And I said, yeah, hell yeah.
And so that's what I do.
Speaker 4 (03:32):
I help people find themselves because to me, I feel
that authenticity is more important than achievement.
Speaker 5 (03:39):
But when you're authentic, you achieve.
Speaker 4 (03:41):
When you're being two to yourself and when you're doing
what you love to do and you're expressing yourself honestly,
it's a game changer.
Speaker 2 (03:48):
So so how are you able to again to bring
you in, Hey, you can help us win a Stanley Cup.
Speaker 3 (03:53):
What's the main thing that you do? And you know,
I know it's been a whole the whole season.
Speaker 2 (03:58):
Why can you teach like our listeners, but hey, this
is why I really did this really clicked it?
Speaker 3 (04:03):
Help?
Speaker 5 (04:04):
Yes?
Speaker 4 (04:04):
Well, the first thing I do is I remind people
that they have a masterpiece within that they're wide for success.
And the book called Born to Win, and they say
we were born winners. And so all I do is,
maybe it'd be easier if I just tell you what
my charter is. So I have a char I developed.
I don't know how many years ago it could be.
Sometimes you think it's ten, and it could be fifteen,
(04:24):
you know, but you know, one of the things I
do is my idea is to release the di minds
block in each and every human being. We all have
a masterpiece, we all have a divine spot and my
job is to is to help people unlock it or release.
Speaker 5 (04:38):
It, however you want to call it.
Speaker 4 (04:40):
And the values that are at the heart of who
I am a love, curiosity, truth, wisdom and take it
the selfish service, compassion and courage. That for what I
could be counted on for is to be loving with
a warrior spirit, with the serving and compassionate heart, but
souon an excellence and wisdom, with grace and eves. So
that's the game I'm playing. So my idea is that
whomever I'm working with, yellow jail, locker room, board rooms,
(05:03):
doesn't really matter hockey, NHL, NBA, NFL doesn't really matter.
MLB is really about helping the person be who they are,
you know, their their higher self, their divine spart helping
them to release that or unlock it.
Speaker 5 (05:17):
That's what I do.
Speaker 4 (05:18):
And so what's the process involved in That comes down
to really self awareness, which when you understand you have
self awareness, then you have you have you have self responsibility.
You got to take responsibility for yourself and realize you
make choices.
Speaker 5 (05:33):
And so what I do is I.
Speaker 4 (05:34):
Help people develop a quality of self awareness that allows
them to self regulate in other words, the self regulated thoughts, feeling, behavior,
In other words, you are responsible and I'm teaching you
how to do that, how to access your massive people
then so you can you can express yourself honestly, like
I said, so unlocked and brace your greatness, find the
flow to discover success.
Speaker 5 (05:54):
And so that's.
Speaker 4 (05:55):
Different for everyone, but the main thing is that there's
a process and involved in helping you to unlock.
Speaker 2 (06:02):
So is it more of listen, you're not fonding your
potential and you're holding yourself back.
Speaker 3 (06:08):
So I'm going to show you what your bad habits.
Speaker 2 (06:09):
There are correcting that so you work harder or more selfless,
or what.
Speaker 4 (06:15):
Happens is people come to me and they usually have
some intention, like if it's an entrepreneur or ceo. Everybody's
interested in performance, interested in performing at an elite level
or high level, or.
Speaker 5 (06:27):
Actually just being able to do things.
Speaker 4 (06:29):
And so if we go back to the turn of
the century when Sigmund Freud was asked why did he
create or develop psychoanalysis, and he said, to help people work, love,
and play at their highest capacity. And so people want that.
People want to be able to live fully and creatively.
They may not be able to express it, but people
want to have a great experience. People want to have
(06:51):
a feeling and feeling fully alive and fully self expressed.
And it can manifest it in a variety of ways,
but it's really about like for me, if I look
at my own journey, I know, inspired in basketball player
in college, I walk on and I got injured, and
then I didn't know who I was, and so I
struggled for a while, and then I got addicted to
payments and other stuff. But it wasn't until my buck
(07:13):
got on fire and I decided to take responsibility for
myself and I got in the process where.
Speaker 5 (07:18):
I was able to start to be true to my
own self.
Speaker 4 (07:22):
I started being able to say, Okay, I am responsible.
I made choices, and so how do I get to
a place where I make wise choices predicated on what's
inside me, not what somebody tells me I should be.
Speaker 5 (07:34):
My basketball coach in high school said that accountants make
good money. So I got a degree in the county.
Speaker 4 (07:40):
But after I got clean, I realized that I wanted
to work with people. When I wanted to help people unlocked,
I want to understand, well, I got clean, but there
are a lot of other people that don't. What motivated
me and how did I do it? And so for me,
when I learned how to do it, I learned two things.
Number one, if you want to learn something, you teach it.
And number two, if.
Speaker 5 (08:00):
You want to keep something, you got to give it
away like that.
Speaker 4 (08:04):
So when people want to formulate it, and I'm saying
that formerly is no formulave what I did ten years ago,
even two years ago. It's different, But it's all predicated
on myself and anyone. I'm working with self awareness, self
regulation to get the self mastery. That's what it is.
And then once you get the self mastery. Now you
got to get the other. This is all emotional intelligent stuff.
(08:25):
Then the rest of it is social awareness and relationship development.
Speaker 5 (08:29):
That'sh it because we.
Speaker 4 (08:30):
Live in a network of relationship. So how do we
relate to each other in ways that help us synergize,
help us understand I another and one, help us do
something great together? Because if you want to do something
really great, you can't do it just by yourself.
Speaker 5 (08:43):
You need you need a community, you need others. You
need to Yes, you need to. Yes, So does that
makes sense?
Speaker 4 (08:49):
I'm trying to be as succinct and clear as and
so you're like, hey.
Speaker 2 (08:54):
I'm talking to a deplus student here. Let me try
dumb this down as much as I can. And I
appreciate it because I need it.
Speaker 5 (08:59):
Yes, Well, I just want to communicate.
Speaker 4 (09:02):
I don't judge it, I don't say anything, but I
know that if we keep it really simple, people can
understand it.
Speaker 3 (09:07):
So when you go in, you you train the oilers.
Where is that different than if you're train a basketball team.
Just said this oiler team as opposed to.
Speaker 5 (09:17):
Yeah, well, every every team is different.
Speaker 4 (09:19):
Well it's a different context, you know, it's it's side
hockey and so the game is played differently, but at
the same time everything's similar in terms of people being
able to be self aware and self regulate and to
have They might have different goals, but they have to
have a process of how they're going to achieve those goals.
But in the interim, what I what I preach. It's interesting.
(09:41):
Maybe I'll just cut to the chase. I did a
podcast with with Tim Ferriss, and I did a podcast
with Lewis Howe, and they both asked me basically, uh,
you know three things that I know for sure or
something wrong those lines, And I answered the same way
both times.
Speaker 5 (09:57):
Without knowing it.
Speaker 4 (09:58):
But when I listened to it, I said, well, that's interesting.
And so I said, and I believe this. The only
time we have is now. The only person you can
authentically be is yourself, and all you need is love
love that. So that's as symbols I can get it.
So I'm doing some variety of that, and a lot
of it has to do with And it's interesting because
(10:19):
when I was in graduate school studying psychology, one of
the things that I learned from an existential perspective, which
is ontology, the study of being, and this idea of
being able to deal you know, potentiality and how you
deal with the anxiety of freedom and fair death and
all of that stuff meaning and isolation and all of
those things. And one of the things I learned was
(10:41):
one approach they had with Rollald Maye. He wrote a
book I think it's Discovery of Being or something like that,
and he talked about this idea that what we do
is we get weathered to a certain technique or school
and then we apply that to the situation. And what
he was talking about from an existential point of view
(11:01):
is you got to get the insight first and then
you apply the technique to it. And so this is
why Bruce Lee he studied all you know, wing chung
and start out with that, but he studied all the
martial arts and he came up with his own system,
which is the way of the intercepting fists.
Speaker 5 (11:18):
And what that really.
Speaker 4 (11:19):
Was it was zen or my you know, this approach
of contemplative approach to the situation where you don't know
what the style is going to be, You read the
situation and then that's when you apply whatever you need
to apply. And so that's what it comes down to.
There is no formula. The formula is there's no formula,
but the formula really is getting the insight and then
(11:41):
applying the most appropriate, effective technique or process that you
can apply.
Speaker 5 (11:47):
Does that make sense?
Speaker 3 (11:48):
Yep, it does.
Speaker 2 (11:49):
And I'm gonna I'm gonna flip the script a little
bit here because I think all great coaches you're there
to coach people, but you learn from every experience too,
right then you could then yes, absolutely, yeah, passos along too.
Speaker 3 (11:58):
What have you learned from the Oilers being around an
NHL T theing that was different than the.
Speaker 5 (12:02):
Best, Well, I learned, I learned a lot.
Speaker 4 (12:05):
The main thing I learned is, you know, when you
think about the game is really fast, like I mean
extremely fast. And at the same time, the thing about
ice hockey is, you know, we talked about having talent
and having the best team, Well, ice hockey is is
very different because if the goalie gets hot, it doesn't
matter how your team is, you know, or if you
(12:26):
can bounce a certain way. So's there's a lot of
unpredictability in it, you know, in terms of you know
who's gonna win and stuff like that, and so I
learned that, but I also learned I learned a lot
about myself, Like you talked about that's what I teach
because you learned from it, but you realize that you
know under this context.
Speaker 5 (12:44):
It's just really challenging.
Speaker 4 (12:45):
You got to understand, you know, the context that you're
in and then being able to do the same thing
which I talked about you having an intention on how
to you develop that, So learning it from a different
perspective and learning it about the game, and learning about
the nuances and learning about the challenges that you have.
But once again, it doesn't matter what context you're in.
It's really about problem solving. It's really about embracing your
(13:08):
greatness and finding them flow and then discovering success.
Speaker 5 (13:11):
And so it's an ongoing thing.
Speaker 4 (13:13):
And if I were to work come back and work
with them next year, it would be different because everything's
always changing. But at the same time, there's certain things
that are involved there, but just learning about learning new
people learning. Like I don't know if it's a Canadian
thing or whatever, but they're open hearted people and they're
(13:34):
great people, and they're hungry and they're humble, and you know,
obviously Connor and Leon, but all the others there's a
hunger and there's a humility there, and so normally when
you work with teams you may not get as much
success as we've had. It takes time and it's still
you know, and we're still in it. But at the
(13:55):
same time, I think there was a readiness there. You know,
like they say, when the student is ready to teach,
you will appear. That's not a teacher, that's a situation
or whatever the lesson you need to learn. And so yeah,
so I just learned, you know, what it feels like
to be part of a family. And a lot of
people say, but they mean it.
Speaker 3 (14:13):
Wow, that's really cool. I love that. Yes, I'll tell
you my experience with hockey players.
Speaker 2 (14:18):
I started a mixed martial arts training program for pro
athletes in two thousand and seven, mostly for football and fighters,
but we've done some hockey players. Belong Lucich and Nate
Thompson and Rich Klune a couple of cats for those
hockey players, and they brought a whole bunch of guys in.
Those hockey players, like football players, they'll try and get
out of their work fast. They'll turn to see if
you're looking, and put their hands out for their hands
(14:40):
and their heirs. They you know, they'll they'll jump fighters
never get hockey players. You can tell them to go
hit a bag for three minutes, or just say go
hit that bag at noon on Tuesday and you could
forget you told them that and come back Thursday they'll
still be hitting the back. That's the best way I
can spend out. Yeah, great work. It's such a pleasure
(15:01):
to be around. They're great.
Speaker 4 (15:02):
People don't realize because it's interesting because since I got here,
you know, I was watching practice, I watched it from
the stands, and the games I watched from the press
box up on the eighth floor. But during practice I
get down on the bench and I watched them at
at at the ice level, and.
Speaker 5 (15:20):
It is so fast. Yeah, the game is so fast.
Speaker 4 (15:23):
It's amazing that they can do what they do because
up there it slows everything down and you say, well,
why couldn't they do that, make a turn or whatever.
But on the eyes you realize, man, this is a
fast sport. Everything's quick, and you know you're doing it on.
Speaker 2 (15:37):
Ice, and so reactionary because yeah, you don't even it's
gonna go bounce, So reactionary for the bill cut like,
oh yeah, they're they're man.
Speaker 3 (15:44):
Their next level. They're they're athleticism isn't appreciated.
Speaker 5 (15:48):
Yes, rand I would agree with that. Yes, all right.
Speaker 2 (15:51):
Yeah, we talked about you working with Kobe and Jack
and Michael Jordan, and so let's go back to those
guys and again the biggest thing. Let's say, Jordan, what
did the biggest thing you worked on with him? Because
I'm sure your program is different back then it is now.
And what's the top thing you've learned from Michael Jordan?
Speaker 4 (16:08):
Yeah, the main thing was I was explaining to him
how he could do things and how he.
Speaker 5 (16:12):
Could take it to the next level.
Speaker 3 (16:14):
Wow.
Speaker 5 (16:14):
Really, Yes, that's that's what it was.
Speaker 4 (16:16):
Because before I met him, you know, actually the name
of my lcs I of the Hurricane.
Speaker 5 (16:22):
And what I noticed about him.
Speaker 4 (16:24):
From Afar was that when things got you know, chaotic,
he got more calm. You know, he just had a
way of being in that calmness and still being able
to perform at a high level. And the other thing
I realized about him that was unique.
Speaker 5 (16:40):
I'll just say I roomed with doctor Jay in college.
Julia serving, Yeah, you room with doctor Remember.
Speaker 2 (16:45):
I said, you're the most interesting man in the world.
Put you up there. We definitely got to hit that.
We gotta hit finished on Jordan, but we're going back
to doctor.
Speaker 3 (16:54):
Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 4 (16:55):
So when I when I when I saw Michael, to me,
he was acting like he was still trying to make
the team.
Speaker 5 (17:03):
And what year was that in the league room when
I started working with the boats was ninety three?
Speaker 4 (17:07):
It was October ninety three, but he was around, but
he wasn't with the team. You know, he's playing baseball whatever.
He came back in ninety five after eighteen months. You
know that I have been working with the team eighteen
months and he came back of Macha nineteen ninety five
and just watching him and he didn't have his basketball
leagues that late in the season. But what I saw
was the way he played and the way he practiced
(17:29):
was no different.
Speaker 5 (17:30):
It was no difference.
Speaker 4 (17:30):
He was always coming at you learning and it was
like he was trying to make the team because he
got cut from his high school basketball team. So I
guess he promised himself he would never that would never
happen again. But to me, that's a prime example of
adversity leveling you up. No struggle, no swag being a gift.
He had a lot of swags. So and there's all
(17:52):
these sayings like no pressure, no diamonds. You know, pressure
is a privilege. So he embodied that even when I
was working with him. It was interesting when he first
came back, and you know, maased to come to Boston
and I would work out with the team that day
of the game and I might take them through some
physical stuff and some mental stuff and give them some concept.
(18:13):
And I was doing the sun salutation with them, having them,
you know, do the sun salutation. And he had hurt
his hand and he had a steam machine on his hand,
and I said, oh, Mike, you don't.
Speaker 5 (18:22):
Have to do that. You know this is and he
did it. He did it.
Speaker 4 (18:26):
You know, it's like, no, man, I'm doing this. It's
like that is you see what I'm saying. So it
was like and he was curious, and he was he
was he once again, he was humble and hungry. He
saw he saw what I was doing was going to
help level everybody else up. But I think the true
testament to our work together was when you watched the
last Dance and he talked about how he loved that
(18:50):
that championship that they won because he was learning how
to play more spiritually because he didn't have the physical
gifts that he had before, but he was still really good.
But he realized that being able to be in a
moment and to be able to because see if I
would have been working with him when he first came in,
because he spent a lot of time in his hotel
and we couldn't go anywhere right right, right, and so
(19:13):
but he got what I was teaching him, and he
got how it helped.
Speaker 5 (19:16):
Him with his leadership style and everything else. And it
was just but.
Speaker 4 (19:20):
I was explaining to him because sometimes we do things,
but when you can do something and you understand what
you're doing and how you do it, it makes it easier
for you to keep doing it and actually go to
the next level.
Speaker 5 (19:31):
Does that make sense?
Speaker 3 (19:32):
Yeah? Yeah, you know what I love, you know, the
being in the moment part.
Speaker 2 (19:35):
I think you had a line in the last dance
where somebody asked if he was nervous to take.
Speaker 3 (19:39):
A shot and he's like, why I haven't taken the
shot yet, or he's nervous to miss, right, And he's like, yeah,
why do I nervous? I haven't taken the shot.
Speaker 2 (19:45):
Yet, yes, which is kind of exactly what you're talking
about being a moment.
Speaker 3 (19:48):
You don't worry about something in the future.
Speaker 5 (19:50):
And he talked about it.
Speaker 4 (19:51):
He said, when the moment comes, you know, you know
what's going to happen, and things get quiet, and he
was talking about being on his own and being in
flow and that's it. You know, you're not even in
there and you're doing stuff and it's so creative. So
the thing he embodied what I talk about, and it's
really important, the silence or the stillness, that quiet place
within Kimpbell talked about in the Power of Myth. He says,
(20:13):
when the athlete is in championship, for him, that coming
from their center, from that quietness, from that silence, and
you're not compelled by fear of desire, you're just expressing yourself.
But when you come from that space, there's a creativity
and there's a wisdom or intuition that comes.
Speaker 5 (20:30):
Out of that that you don't even know how it's
going to manifest. That's what makes it so exciting. When
I go back, I'll connect with doctor Jay with this.
Speaker 4 (20:38):
When I was rooming with Julius, it was his junior year,
my sophomore year and he had signed with the ABA
with the Virginia Schoirs, and after he signed, he had
an old Chevy. I forget what kind of chev it was.
We drove for his first semi pro game. It was
in port Chester, New York. We were in Amherst, mass
So we drove to the game and he's playing against
(20:58):
these older guys. They got popped bellies and everything, and
they could play. And all of a sudden, I seen
him playing. And you got to understand when he played
in the college game because of Kareem, they outlawed Duncan,
so you couldn't stuff the ball in a regular game.
You're doing in the warm, but not in the regular game.
So all of a sudden he has to freedom. And
(21:18):
although that was two years or whatever, it's not paying
the dunk. He was making stuff up. And I'm looking
at Hi because I was watching practice every day we
play together and everything, and I'm saying, man, he's making stuff.
Fuck he was oh, and I laughed. But it's not
like he's not trying it. But you can see he
was in the very zone. He was in the flow,
and he was he was like a ballet dancer. He
(21:40):
was doing it with so much great deeds and with
power and so I've been privileged to be able to
see him come out in his first varsity game I saw.
Speaker 5 (21:50):
I think he had thirty two points and twenty eight rebounds.
Speaker 3 (21:53):
Wow.
Speaker 4 (21:53):
He was one of the few at that time there
were three players that averaged twenty twenty one points and
reboumbs in college game.
Speaker 3 (22:00):
Did you know him before entered?
Speaker 2 (22:01):
You guys just did the universe just put you guys
together in college roommates?
Speaker 5 (22:06):
Yeah? Well, we had we had friends, We used to
play pick up together.
Speaker 4 (22:09):
We decided we were gonna, oh, you know, one of
our friends, Hermann, was head of residence, so he put
us all on the same floor and he put me
in doctor together, and so I had planning on playing
for the team, you know, but I got injured and that.
Speaker 5 (22:21):
Was the end of my career.
Speaker 4 (22:22):
But I still was involved in the team when we
had recruits come in and whatnot, I was still involved
in it. And then my other room mate, Alex Kinner came,
He was a year behind, and he was there, and
you know, Rick Patino was there when I was there.
Speaker 5 (22:34):
So there were a lot of folks there at U
MASS when I was there.
Speaker 2 (22:37):
And to help a guy like here, maturity there's somebody
get in that zone and get everything calm to have
that common cast.
Speaker 3 (22:45):
Is there a breath work that you teach them.
Speaker 2 (22:47):
Is there another form of mindfulness like a quick meditation
you teach them.
Speaker 3 (22:52):
Fill me in on that.
Speaker 4 (22:53):
Yes, well, there's various approaches to it. You know, there's
the Zen approach, there's a TM approach. Is all of
these approaches. I tend to focus on just focusing on
the breath and breathing, but it's really more about how
do you know if you you know? And it's interesting
because I'm not really making it up. If you think
about the nervous system, you have the sympathetic and the
(23:15):
power sympathetic. So on one side the left brain I'm
right hand, and so the left brain would be you
know linear, you know, that's where the fight, flight, the
freeze happens. And then the right brain is you know,
one plus one doesn't equal to one plus one could
equal six, but it's a nonlinear, and it's what they
call the rest and digest.
Speaker 5 (23:34):
See.
Speaker 4 (23:34):
So when you're when you're in that, you know, when
you're in the power sympathetic and you have the sympathetic,
but the sympathetic dominates it dominates everything one plus one
equals to the words of the song.
Speaker 5 (23:44):
It dominates.
Speaker 4 (23:45):
And unless you can get into what what Herbert Mention
called the relaxation response, where you're able to the rest
and digest, where you're able to stop this from dominating
and let the other side get in like the melody
of the song, the whole picture. So you have to
side of your brain because they're not like fifty to
fifty that you know, they interact and it's like those
(24:06):
cot jorining circles and whatnot. But you have to learn
how to self regulate. You have to learn how to
raise your energy, which would be the linear brain, and
you know, increase your intensity and at the same time
you got to be able to lower it. You got
to be able to be in that that calm, that
that that quiet place.
Speaker 5 (24:22):
So you need to do both. You know, there's a time.
Speaker 4 (24:24):
So that's self regulation is you got to meet the
intensity of whatever it is the challenge you have in
front of you. But at the same time, if you
do it too fast and you get frenetic, that's not
going to get it done either. It's like if I
think about if you play a string instrument, a guitar
or violin. If you if the string is too tight,
you won't get the right note, and if it's too loose,
you won't get the right note.
Speaker 5 (24:45):
You got to just balance it just right. Does that
make sense?
Speaker 3 (24:48):
Yeah? Love that. Yeah.
Speaker 5 (24:50):
So it's it's it's so the techniques.
Speaker 4 (24:53):
I have a big tool bag of how I draw
on what to do, but really it comes down to
how to get you, you know, to understand that you
have autonomy to some degree that you can direct your
attention to something, to a thought, to an object, and
how do you direct it and sustain the attention?
Speaker 5 (25:11):
How do you deal with distractions?
Speaker 4 (25:13):
And how can you stay in the moment and not
get pulled back into the past or push the head
into the future.
Speaker 5 (25:19):
You have to be able to be moment to moment,
be in a moment.
Speaker 4 (25:22):
And you got to have strategies and you have to
have the awareness that know, okay, I'm still in the
last play that occurred instead of.
Speaker 5 (25:28):
Being in the moment.
Speaker 4 (25:29):
And it's interesting, I was watching this the NCAA's and
it was fast walking or something and this woman she
was in front, young lady, she was in front, and
she was getting close to the finish line, and she
started celebrating, and she started stating the person next to her,
just one. That's what I'm talking about. You can it
doesn't have to be just fear or frustration. You can
(25:50):
get pulled away violation or joy and forget lose yourself
and focus on how you're doing and not stay focused
on what you're doing. So this ability to do erecting
and sustained attention, that's what differential genius is from other
people because they know what the focus on and they
know how to sustain it.
Speaker 3 (26:07):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (26:08):
Look, you have a bunch quotes I love, but one
really love. His success is ninety nine percent failure.
Speaker 3 (26:13):
I love it. Yeah, I love that.
Speaker 2 (26:15):
Love that people don't understand the gift that indversity is.
But like that woman, now, like Garte, she's gonna grow
from that.
Speaker 4 (26:22):
Yeah, yeah, well it's gonna and you know, and the
interesting thing is it's possible that that little growth, that
that mistake she made could level up to win the
next three four races.
Speaker 3 (26:33):
Right, exactly sucks at the time, but could really.
Speaker 2 (26:36):
Like it sucked for Michael Jordan to get based in
high school at the time, but look what it different. Right,
So we talked about Jordan. We talked about the Whilers.
Tell me about Kobe working with Kobe.
Speaker 5 (26:45):
And yeah, well I learned from Kobe.
Speaker 4 (26:46):
It's interesting because when I first met him, well, you know,
i've met him before, I work with him with the Lakers,
but when he was in Lakers it was two thousand,
I read I write about this in my book The
Mindful Athlete, as well as Unmarked. It was at one
game in two thousand, my first year working with them,
and Kobe was like he had this intensity and it
(27:07):
was like he was trying to score thirty two points
or thirty five points in one shot, right, So he
was really like really going after it. And if you
think about it, let's say he wants to average thirty
two points, get thirty two points that game. So from
a linear point of view, you're going to say eight
times four that's thirty two. So each quarter, I just
have to score eight points. And so the problem challenge
(27:28):
with that is if you only score four points in
the first quarter, then you go into the second quarter
you feel like you.
Speaker 5 (27:34):
Got to I'm pressed for twelve and you're pressing.
Speaker 4 (27:37):
And so what I said to him, I gave him
a Zenko on really I said, Kobe, the best way
to score is not to try to score, you know,
just in other words, I was saying.
Speaker 3 (27:46):
Because look like you were crazy on Saturday again.
Speaker 5 (27:49):
It Yeah, he got it.
Speaker 4 (27:50):
And back in twenty fifteen when he invited me to
go hang out with him, I asked him about it.
Speaker 5 (27:55):
He remembered everything that was amazinging. He remember every damn
thing I told him.
Speaker 4 (27:59):
He has like these memories that can retain that stuff.
So he had sixteen points in the first quarter.
Speaker 3 (28:04):
Wow.
Speaker 5 (28:05):
So this is what unlocked means.
Speaker 4 (28:06):
It means that, see, you can be so hyper focused
on something that you're just focused on that and you
don't see all the opportunities that are there because you're
looking for the opportunity and instead of letting the opportunities
speak to you. And that's what mindfulness is about seeing
things in new, fresh ways and staying open but receptive
because the moment is pregnant with possibility, this moment, and
(28:28):
so we have to be able to see things in
new and different ways and stay open for the possibilities
that we might miss because we're looking for something instead
of letting the situation communicate to us.
Speaker 3 (28:40):
Jo he learned from you what'd you learn from him?
Be around him?
Speaker 5 (28:44):
Well, the same thing I taught him is what I
learned him.
Speaker 4 (28:46):
But what I learned about him was his ability to
be comfortable being uncomfortable and pushing and doing things. And
when you know, that's where the Mama mentality came from.
But I had that mentality myself because you know, I'm
you know, I do things like that.
Speaker 5 (29:04):
You know, I lived in a meditation.
Speaker 4 (29:06):
Center for six years and still worked and everything, and
that it was a class that I would attend, and
I attended that class for six years every Tuesday.
Speaker 5 (29:14):
I mean that kind of you know people who does that,
you know, And I think that's what I did. But
it was because I.
Speaker 4 (29:20):
Was pursuing excellence in wisdom, man, And I didn't even know.
I just it was just an impulse. Like one of
the things that I did was, you know, I'm coming
up on forty years of sobriety July thirtieth.
Speaker 3 (29:31):
For you, man, that's great.
Speaker 4 (29:32):
I've averaged over a week for those entire forty years. Really,
that's what I mean. So that's why we got along
because I had the momentmentality. I just didn't know what
to call it. I was just you know, but I'm intense, right,
But I learned that from him, that, you know, just
being able to share your experience with people, but enjoying,
you know, getting comfortable being uncomfortable. He loved working out,
(29:54):
He loved learning from from his mistakes, which is a
growth mindset, you know, what's the lesson and sharing it
with somebody the other day. Is first, one of his
first playoff experiences, he shot like three or four airballs
and so when he went back home to Newport Beach,
I don't know, only Kobe could do this. He called
the custodian and told him to open up the gym
(30:15):
and then he shot for like eight hours.
Speaker 3 (30:17):
Wow.
Speaker 5 (30:18):
Really, yes, So that's what I'm talking about.
Speaker 4 (30:21):
So for him, he taught me the tenacity and this
ability if you want something, you go after it, and
you don't mind cold calling somebody because when you want something,
you just you just go for it, you know. So
he taught me a lot, but it really it was his.
And for a long time I used to say, well,
he's the closest thing to Michael Jordan because I got
to work with both of them. But then at some
(30:42):
point when he had injured his finger and he changed
the shot and he didn't miss a day.
Speaker 5 (30:47):
That's what I said. Kobe is Kobe. I don't have
to compare him to MJ anymore because he earned his stripes.
But it's the adversity you notice.
Speaker 4 (30:55):
The comments is overcoming the adversity and choosing to level
up from it, choosing to embrace it. So I say,
no struggle, no swag. So if somebody has swagged, they
had struggle. You don't get struggles because you got to
earn that. You don't get swagged by just showing up
and saying, Okay, everything's cool and easy. No, you got
to have some adversity you got to go through. You
(31:16):
got to get comfortable with being uncomfortable. Otherwise you won't
get challenging, you won't get you know, your latent abilities
won't express themselves.
Speaker 3 (31:23):
George, I love this conversation, man, I got two more
for him. Shock's a good friend of mine. Tell your
experience with him.
Speaker 5 (31:28):
Shack is Shack is Shack. It would be like you
know we talking about like he would say to me.
Speaker 4 (31:36):
One of the first conversations we had, he said, do
you want me to tell you what you want to hear?
Speaker 5 (31:41):
You want the truth because that sound like.
Speaker 4 (31:44):
Him or not absolutely, And I said, I want the truth,
and so, yeah, so we used to have great conversations
and yeah, I mean he's like, he's a very compassionate,
generous and feisty, you know, because he used to get
beat up. I mean, people don't realize you talk about
(32:05):
all the other big men. I don't know if there's
ever been a big man like him where he was
getting fouled by five guys and they only called following one.
Speaker 5 (32:16):
You know, think about it, you know.
Speaker 4 (32:17):
And and so I think the other guys like Will
I think people might have been afraid to follow him whatever, or.
Speaker 5 (32:24):
They didn't play like that back then. You know, it
was you know, one on one or whatever.
Speaker 4 (32:27):
But when he played, he used to get beat up
all the time, and he would just tolerate it and
you know, and dominate.
Speaker 3 (32:35):
George.
Speaker 2 (32:35):
My last question for you, man, I asked every one
of my guest this, give me your unbreakable moment, that
moment that should have broken you could have and didn't,
and as.
Speaker 3 (32:44):
A result, you came through the other side of that
tunnel stronger forever.
Speaker 2 (32:47):
It's exactly what you're talking about, adversity being a gift
biggest adversity that made you as strong as you are today.
Speaker 4 (32:53):
Yes, dealing with my addiction obviously, you know, being addicted
and feeling like.
Speaker 5 (32:59):
You know, I was going to die and that I was.
Speaker 4 (33:03):
Destined for jail's institution and death. And I had just
I had a strep infection. So I was in the
hospital for a couple for a week or so, and
the doctor was telling me I was going to die
unless I had changed, and I was a functional somethings music.
So it was April first, and one of the guys
I usually hang out with when.
Speaker 5 (33:21):
Of my friend, Danny, came by my house and took
me to an AA meeting, and April Food took me
to the AA meeting.
Speaker 4 (33:27):
I couldn't even stay in the meeting the whole time,
but I didn't think there was a way out until
I saw somebody who was just like me, sober and clean.
Speaker 5 (33:37):
That was that was that changed everything.
Speaker 3 (33:41):
Really beautiful.
Speaker 2 (33:42):
I appreciate that, man, I'm really man, I'm so glad
you and I connected.
Speaker 3 (33:46):
So glad we linked up and you're in LA. Next time,
I would love to take you out to dinner man,
a little bread.
Speaker 4 (33:51):
Yeah, So let's do that because I usually spend about
fifty days a year there, right, let's talk about it.
And we got a lot in common because you know,
I studied tight chief for many years and I've been
really having that martial art artist attitude and you know,
work ethic and the zen that's how I got it.
Speaker 5 (34:09):
You know, there's in and all that sort of sort
of stuff.
Speaker 4 (34:12):
Like I actually went to Hong Kong back in the
nineties and I felt like I was at home. Man,
between my meditation taichi being out there doing my Thai
chi and Chee hung and stuff. It was like, wow, man,
it was really but I really I realized that it
wasn't just because I was in the Orient. It was
because I got to a place where I realized the
home is where the heart is wherever I am there,
(34:33):
I am.
Speaker 3 (34:33):
Yeah, I love it.
Speaker 2 (34:35):
I spent the last two off season Thailand, same thing,
praying the jungles man, I, oh my god, and I
and that's actually I learned breath work out there, meditation
and gratitude lists.
Speaker 3 (34:45):
And you're right that that is my happy place.
Speaker 4 (34:47):
Because yeah, yeah, this's ty Forest Masters that I learned
a lot of meditation from.
Speaker 2 (34:53):
Actually, yeah, hey, I'll tell you it's real quick before
we go, I'll let you go if I walk in
this place. It's called Common Alliance and Coasta movie Thailand,
and I'm doing my first ever meditation and somebody try
to get me to learn transidental meditation.
Speaker 3 (35:07):
I do a lot of work with.
Speaker 2 (35:08):
Vets, and I am really I'm a high strung cat dude,
and I'm usually aggressive. And the guy gave him my
mantra and I did it for the first couple of times,
and then I didn't like it, and he told me, well,
you can't change it.
Speaker 3 (35:21):
It chose you. And that wasn't a good answer for me,
so I started geting frustrated.
Speaker 2 (35:26):
Then I wanted to choke out my meditation guy, and
so my other friends like, you need to learn.
Speaker 3 (35:31):
How to meditate it there's anybody.
Speaker 2 (35:32):
So I go out there and we're in this like
hutment over the CMC and there's about eight other people
of the class, and this.
Speaker 3 (35:38):
Time Monk was teaching us breath work. Looks at me.
I've only been there like one.
Speaker 2 (35:43):
I got in late the night before, so it's the
first time I met with everybody else.
Speaker 3 (35:46):
As time, Monk looks at me and he goes ooh,
you got to learn how to love yourself up. You
got to learn that. I thought he was talking to
someone else. Now he's talking to this poor bastard right here.
So it's changed my life. But I've learned it in
a later stage and I'm glad I have.
Speaker 4 (36:00):
Yeah, it's it's it's interesting because I don't know if
I could find it. It's something about you know, you
get the place and you it gets all comfortable.
Speaker 5 (36:10):
You want to give up.
Speaker 4 (36:11):
And when you get to that place, that that wall,
you know where you can't if we call a bottom,
you can't keep going and can't stop. That's when you
know you're going someplace. Now you know you're getting to
the actual work. Because a lot of people stopped meditating
because they see that their mind is crazy and they say,
I can't do this. But actuality it's not about doing,
it's about being. You're seeing how your mind is, and
(36:32):
by looking at it from a from a quantum physics
point of view, you know the observer and the observer
are interacting. So when you start to investigate and examine
how you're living, you actually change your experience.
Speaker 5 (36:45):
That's a good one.
Speaker 3 (36:46):
Huh, that's a great one.
Speaker 2 (36:47):
And I know what you're saying, because now that I
do meditate, Yeah, it was Look, you got my level
of ADHD. It's hard to sit there and meditate and
and unplugging, get like, get to that place.
Speaker 3 (36:58):
Man. When you get there, it's it's beautiful. I did
three day one in Thailand to change my life.
Speaker 5 (37:04):
There's a philosopher. Two of them my guests, doctor Dre
and Sloop Dogg. I got my mind on money, money
on my mind. That's meditation.
Speaker 4 (37:11):
See, because to meditate means to contemplate, and the contemplate
means to look at repeatedly and look at closely. So
we have this idea that we're only meditating with this,
but I would suggest that you become what you think
about what you hold in mind.
Speaker 5 (37:24):
Manifests and most of us don't know what we're thinking
or what we're holding in mind.
Speaker 4 (37:28):
So a former contemplation is you don't have to be
solid and quiet. You can just reflect on you know
what you're thinking, what is your your self talk? Is
it positive as a negative? You know what is what's
on your mind? And I can guarantee you you're like
probably the rest of us if you happen to have
a conversation different with a difficult person and you're having
(37:50):
a conversation with them and they're not there. That's my
conversation with myself, yeself talking and you're telling you how
it's going to go wrong and how they're not going
to listen to you, And that's exactly what happens when
you see them out just out of curiosity. Try having
a conversation where you actually can communicate with each other
in yourself. Doctor, see what happened.
Speaker 3 (38:08):
So what I do now, tell me is along the
right lines.
Speaker 2 (38:11):
So I'll meditate now where I'll only concentrate on my
accounts of my breath, nothing else.
Speaker 3 (38:18):
So I got for everything else just that right, so
I gave everything else a break.
Speaker 2 (38:21):
Then I'll meditate and I'll just meditate on things I'm
grateful for, nothing else.
Speaker 3 (38:26):
So I usually do it for a song. I'll play
a song, so five minutes teach, and then the last
one is things.
Speaker 2 (38:31):
I'm proud of, because it's being proud of yourself. People
don't realize you got to practice that. You gotta work
in a lot of people like to put themselves down.
A lot of people really, you know, shit all over themselves.
You got practice giving yourself some grace and being proud
or it's not enough for you know, people are like,
oh it's not enough for I did this, but that
person did that, right.
Speaker 3 (38:50):
So that's what that's my morning meditation every day.
Speaker 4 (38:52):
Yeah, that you know what I call that practice catch
yourself with somebody else doing something right.
Speaker 5 (38:59):
See, that's it because.
Speaker 4 (39:00):
We but let's talk about it and I'll leave you
with this. The reptilian brain, you know what it does.
Its job is to seek out danger. So nine out
of ten thoughts are going to be negative, and so
we got to get the positivity. So we got to
get the three to one ratio. Three positive thoughts are
one negative thought. And the only way you're going to
(39:22):
do that is through gratitude practice, forgiveness and just focusing
on what's right, focusing on what you want. And it's
interesting because we don't do that. We're kind of wired
to look at, you know, pathology. Our whole society is
based on pathology instead of really that they called the
broad and built theory. When you can get yourself at positive,
it totally changes everything. And so so the gratitude practice.
(39:46):
An interesting thing about gratitude practice or being proud you're
reflecting on things that already happen. That's a good one.
What might happen is already happen.
Speaker 3 (39:57):
So I'm taking away the fear of the unknown year
of the future.
Speaker 2 (40:01):
Yeah, and again, like I said, I spent too many
years beating ump by myself, so now it's time to
fill that jug up.
Speaker 5 (40:07):
Well.
Speaker 4 (40:08):
I appreciate you, man, I appreciate you making that too
transformation because you know why, because that's gonna ripple into
everything you do and you're gonna be modeling what people can.
Speaker 5 (40:16):
Do to be at peace.
Speaker 2 (40:19):
I appreciate it so much, man, you were This is fantastic.
I'm I'm so looking.
Speaker 5 (40:23):
Forward to breaking bed with you, man, and we're going
to hang brother.
Speaker 2 (40:27):
Thank you, George Muntfort, Thank you joining us here in
the Unbreakable Podcast.
This is Unbreakable with Jay Glacier, a mental wealth podcast,
build you from the inside out. Now here's Jay Glacier.
Speaker 2 (00:14):
Welcome into Unbreakable, a mental wealth podcast with Jay Glazer.
I'm Jay Glazer and the purpose of the podcast is
to used to be called a mental health podcast.
Speaker 3 (00:23):
But if we build our mental health, I've realized that's
mental wealth. That's the key. That's what we're going for here.
Speaker 2 (00:28):
So I try and bring on guests from all different
areas of life. Haven't had anybody on yet. It works
at the NHL now I'm just tying it into here
because forget the Dozeki's man.
Speaker 3 (00:38):
This guy is probably the most interesting man in the world.
Speaker 2 (00:41):
Is George Mumford aka the Mindfulness performance Whip her. He
has worked with the likes of the Chicago Bulls and
Michael Jordan and Phil Jackson back then and Kobe and
Shack with the Lakers as well, but also now the
Edmonton Oilers with the NHL, and I'm just fascinated by
this cat, and hey, if I can learn something from him,
we could all learn something from him.
Speaker 3 (01:02):
And that's why we're here. George Steck for joining me.
Speaker 4 (01:04):
Man, I appreciate that I see a hardway you have
behind you.
Speaker 5 (01:07):
Man, those are two of my favorite teams.
Speaker 3 (01:09):
Oh they got packers in the.
Speaker 5 (01:12):
Yes, yes, you know what they are.
Speaker 2 (01:14):
Actually I got People always ask me like there's autographs
on here. I've never asked for an autograph of my
entire life, but my son Sammy, when he was growing up.
I adopted my son, and so I want the greatness
cheering him on throughout his life.
Speaker 3 (01:27):
So all my friends in the NFL, I got them
to sign.
Speaker 2 (01:29):
Things to him, and not just a signature, but saying something,
you know, something that that could just cheer him on
for the rest of his life. Is now twenty one,
you're gonna see Arizona And we just found these in
stories recently when my wife and I moved.
Speaker 3 (01:45):
So it's pretty cool to see a lot.
Speaker 2 (01:46):
Of the a lot of people are still really close
close with but they've been cheering him on his whole
life as it is.
Speaker 3 (01:51):
So it's pretty cool.
Speaker 5 (01:52):
Well that's awesome.
Speaker 2 (01:53):
So I want to get into first of all, man,
there's so many ways to start. I guess we'll start
here with the Edmonton Oilers right, Stanley Cup team right here,
you got brought in this year, but also you've done
so much in the past, kind of give us an
overview of what you do for these teams that makes
you so valuable, because I've been told that you're like
the secret weapon for all these franchises.
Speaker 5 (02:15):
Yes, well, it's really simple.
Speaker 4 (02:17):
I wrote two books of mind for athletes, Seek for
the Pure Performance, that came out in twenty fifteen, and
I wrote one that came out a year ago May second,
and it's titled Unlocked and Embrace your Greatness, Find the Flow,
Discover Success.
Speaker 5 (02:31):
That's what I do. How I do it.
Speaker 3 (02:33):
Yeah, let's start with the Oilers and they'll work backwards.
Speaker 2 (02:35):
We go to the Blakers and go to the Bulls
and some of the Kobe and the Michael Jordans that
you've worked with.
Speaker 3 (02:40):
Let's start with the Oilers.
Speaker 5 (02:41):
Yes.
Speaker 4 (02:42):
So I got approached by Jeff Jackson. He became the
CEO of Hockey Operations in August, and out of a
whim he reached out to me. I think it was
LinkedIn and I responded to him and he approached me
and he said, you know, I've read Phil's book, you know,
Eleven Rings. And then I wrote, you, I read your book,
(03:03):
and it occurred to me that the Bulls were in
a similar situation that we were in, although they had
already won two championships when I when I, when I
had gone there, they had they had the two of
the best players in the you know, in the n
b A Michael Jordan and Scottie Pippen. And we have
the two of the best players in the NHL economy
David and Leon Drisidle.
Speaker 5 (03:23):
And he said, I think you can help us win
a cup? Are you interested? And I said, yeah, hell yeah.
And so that's what I do.
Speaker 4 (03:32):
I help people find themselves because to me, I feel
that authenticity is more important than achievement.
Speaker 5 (03:39):
But when you're authentic, you achieve.
Speaker 4 (03:41):
When you're being two to yourself and when you're doing
what you love to do and you're expressing yourself honestly,
it's a game changer.
Speaker 2 (03:48):
So so how are you able to again to bring
you in, Hey, you can help us win a Stanley Cup.
Speaker 3 (03:53):
What's the main thing that you do? And you know,
I know it's been a whole the whole season.
Speaker 2 (03:58):
Why can you teach like our listeners, but hey, this
is why I really did this really clicked it?
Speaker 3 (04:03):
Help?
Speaker 5 (04:04):
Yes?
Speaker 4 (04:04):
Well, the first thing I do is I remind people
that they have a masterpiece within that they're wide for success.
And the book called Born to Win, and they say
we were born winners. And so all I do is,
maybe it'd be easier if I just tell you what
my charter is. So I have a char I developed.
I don't know how many years ago it could be.
Sometimes you think it's ten, and it could be fifteen,
(04:24):
you know, but you know, one of the things I
do is my idea is to release the di minds
block in each and every human being. We all have
a masterpiece, we all have a divine spot and my
job is to is to help people unlock it or release.
Speaker 5 (04:38):
It, however you want to call it.
Speaker 4 (04:40):
And the values that are at the heart of who
I am a love, curiosity, truth, wisdom and take it
the selfish service, compassion and courage. That for what I
could be counted on for is to be loving with
a warrior spirit, with the serving and compassionate heart, but
souon an excellence and wisdom, with grace and eves. So
that's the game I'm playing. So my idea is that
whomever I'm working with, yellow jail, locker room, board rooms,
(05:03):
doesn't really matter hockey, NHL, NBA, NFL doesn't really matter.
MLB is really about helping the person be who they are,
you know, their their higher self, their divine spart helping
them to release that or unlock it.
Speaker 5 (05:17):
That's what I do.
Speaker 4 (05:18):
And so what's the process involved in That comes down
to really self awareness, which when you understand you have
self awareness, then you have you have you have self responsibility.
You got to take responsibility for yourself and realize you
make choices.
Speaker 5 (05:33):
And so what I do is I.
Speaker 4 (05:34):
Help people develop a quality of self awareness that allows
them to self regulate in other words, the self regulated thoughts, feeling, behavior,
In other words, you are responsible and I'm teaching you
how to do that, how to access your massive people
then so you can you can express yourself honestly, like
I said, so unlocked and brace your greatness, find the
flow to discover success.
Speaker 5 (05:54):
And so that's.
Speaker 4 (05:55):
Different for everyone, but the main thing is that there's
a process and involved in helping you to unlock.
Speaker 2 (06:02):
So is it more of listen, you're not fonding your
potential and you're holding yourself back.
Speaker 3 (06:08):
So I'm going to show you what your bad habits.
Speaker 2 (06:09):
There are correcting that so you work harder or more selfless,
or what.
Speaker 4 (06:15):
Happens is people come to me and they usually have
some intention, like if it's an entrepreneur or ceo. Everybody's
interested in performance, interested in performing at an elite level
or high level, or.
Speaker 5 (06:27):
Actually just being able to do things.
Speaker 4 (06:29):
And so if we go back to the turn of
the century when Sigmund Freud was asked why did he
create or develop psychoanalysis, and he said, to help people work, love,
and play at their highest capacity. And so people want that.
People want to be able to live fully and creatively.
They may not be able to express it, but people
want to have a great experience. People want to have
(06:51):
a feeling and feeling fully alive and fully self expressed.
And it can manifest it in a variety of ways,
but it's really about like for me, if I look
at my own journey, I know, inspired in basketball player
in college, I walk on and I got injured, and
then I didn't know who I was, and so I
struggled for a while, and then I got addicted to
payments and other stuff. But it wasn't until my buck
(07:13):
got on fire and I decided to take responsibility for
myself and I got in the process where.
Speaker 5 (07:18):
I was able to start to be true to my
own self.
Speaker 4 (07:22):
I started being able to say, Okay, I am responsible.
I made choices, and so how do I get to
a place where I make wise choices predicated on what's
inside me, not what somebody tells me I should be.
Speaker 5 (07:34):
My basketball coach in high school said that accountants make
good money. So I got a degree in the county.
Speaker 4 (07:40):
But after I got clean, I realized that I wanted
to work with people. When I wanted to help people unlocked,
I want to understand, well, I got clean, but there
are a lot of other people that don't. What motivated
me and how did I do it? And so for me,
when I learned how to do it, I learned two things.
Number one, if you want to learn something, you teach it.
And number two, if.
Speaker 5 (08:00):
You want to keep something, you got to give it
away like that.
Speaker 4 (08:04):
So when people want to formulate it, and I'm saying
that formerly is no formulave what I did ten years ago,
even two years ago. It's different, But it's all predicated
on myself and anyone. I'm working with self awareness, self
regulation to get the self mastery. That's what it is.
And then once you get the self mastery. Now you
got to get the other. This is all emotional intelligent stuff.
(08:25):
Then the rest of it is social awareness and relationship development.
Speaker 5 (08:29):
That'sh it because we.
Speaker 4 (08:30):
Live in a network of relationship. So how do we
relate to each other in ways that help us synergize,
help us understand I another and one, help us do
something great together? Because if you want to do something
really great, you can't do it just by yourself.
Speaker 5 (08:43):
You need you need a community, you need others. You
need to Yes, you need to. Yes, So does that
makes sense?
Speaker 4 (08:49):
I'm trying to be as succinct and clear as and
so you're like, hey.
Speaker 2 (08:54):
I'm talking to a deplus student here. Let me try
dumb this down as much as I can. And I
appreciate it because I need it.
Speaker 5 (08:59):
Yes, Well, I just want to communicate.
Speaker 4 (09:02):
I don't judge it, I don't say anything, but I
know that if we keep it really simple, people can
understand it.
Speaker 3 (09:07):
So when you go in, you you train the oilers.
Where is that different than if you're train a basketball team.
Just said this oiler team as opposed to.
Speaker 5 (09:17):
Yeah, well, every every team is different.
Speaker 4 (09:19):
Well it's a different context, you know, it's it's side
hockey and so the game is played differently, but at
the same time everything's similar in terms of people being
able to be self aware and self regulate and to
have They might have different goals, but they have to
have a process of how they're going to achieve those goals.
But in the interim, what I what I preach. It's interesting.
(09:41):
Maybe I'll just cut to the chase. I did a
podcast with with Tim Ferriss, and I did a podcast
with Lewis Howe, and they both asked me basically, uh,
you know three things that I know for sure or
something wrong those lines, And I answered the same way
both times.
Speaker 5 (09:57):
Without knowing it.
Speaker 4 (09:58):
But when I listened to it, I said, well, that's interesting.
And so I said, and I believe this. The only
time we have is now. The only person you can
authentically be is yourself, and all you need is love
love that. So that's as symbols I can get it.
So I'm doing some variety of that, and a lot
of it has to do with And it's interesting because
(10:19):
when I was in graduate school studying psychology, one of
the things that I learned from an existential perspective, which
is ontology, the study of being, and this idea of
being able to deal you know, potentiality and how you
deal with the anxiety of freedom and fair death and
all of that stuff meaning and isolation and all of
those things. And one of the things I learned was
(10:41):
one approach they had with Rollald Maye. He wrote a
book I think it's Discovery of Being or something like that,
and he talked about this idea that what we do
is we get weathered to a certain technique or school
and then we apply that to the situation. And what
he was talking about from an existential point of view
(11:01):
is you got to get the insight first and then
you apply the technique to it. And so this is
why Bruce Lee he studied all you know, wing chung
and start out with that, but he studied all the
martial arts and he came up with his own system,
which is the way of the intercepting fists.
Speaker 5 (11:18):
And what that really.
Speaker 4 (11:19):
Was it was zen or my you know, this approach
of contemplative approach to the situation where you don't know
what the style is going to be, You read the
situation and then that's when you apply whatever you need
to apply. And so that's what it comes down to.
There is no formula. The formula is there's no formula,
but the formula really is getting the insight and then
(11:41):
applying the most appropriate, effective technique or process that you
can apply.
Speaker 5 (11:47):
Does that make sense?
Speaker 3 (11:48):
Yep, it does.
Speaker 2 (11:49):
And I'm gonna I'm gonna flip the script a little
bit here because I think all great coaches you're there
to coach people, but you learn from every experience too,
right then you could then yes, absolutely, yeah, passos along too.
Speaker 3 (11:58):
What have you learned from the Oilers being around an
NHL T theing that was different than the.
Speaker 5 (12:02):
Best, Well, I learned, I learned a lot.
Speaker 4 (12:05):
The main thing I learned is, you know, when you
think about the game is really fast, like I mean
extremely fast. And at the same time, the thing about
ice hockey is, you know, we talked about having talent
and having the best team, Well, ice hockey is is
very different because if the goalie gets hot, it doesn't
matter how your team is, you know, or if you
(12:26):
can bounce a certain way. So's there's a lot of
unpredictability in it, you know, in terms of you know
who's gonna win and stuff like that, and so I
learned that, but I also learned I learned a lot
about myself, Like you talked about that's what I teach
because you learned from it, but you realize that you
know under this context.
Speaker 5 (12:44):
It's just really challenging.
Speaker 4 (12:45):
You got to understand, you know, the context that you're
in and then being able to do the same thing
which I talked about you having an intention on how
to you develop that, So learning it from a different
perspective and learning it about the game, and learning about
the nuances and learning about the challenges that you have.
But once again, it doesn't matter what context you're in.
It's really about problem solving. It's really about embracing your
(13:08):
greatness and finding them flow and then discovering success.
Speaker 5 (13:11):
And so it's an ongoing thing.
Speaker 4 (13:13):
And if I were to work come back and work
with them next year, it would be different because everything's
always changing. But at the same time, there's certain things
that are involved there, but just learning about learning new
people learning. Like I don't know if it's a Canadian
thing or whatever, but they're open hearted people and they're
(13:34):
great people, and they're hungry and they're humble, and you know,
obviously Connor and Leon, but all the others there's a
hunger and there's a humility there, and so normally when
you work with teams you may not get as much
success as we've had. It takes time and it's still
you know, and we're still in it. But at the
(13:55):
same time, I think there was a readiness there. You know,
like they say, when the student is ready to teach,
you will appear. That's not a teacher, that's a situation
or whatever the lesson you need to learn. And so yeah,
so I just learned, you know, what it feels like
to be part of a family. And a lot of
people say, but they mean it.
Speaker 3 (14:13):
Wow, that's really cool. I love that. Yes, I'll tell
you my experience with hockey players.
Speaker 2 (14:18):
I started a mixed martial arts training program for pro
athletes in two thousand and seven, mostly for football and fighters,
but we've done some hockey players. Belong Lucich and Nate
Thompson and Rich Klune a couple of cats for those
hockey players, and they brought a whole bunch of guys in.
Those hockey players, like football players, they'll try and get
out of their work fast. They'll turn to see if
you're looking, and put their hands out for their hands
(14:40):
and their heirs. They you know, they'll they'll jump fighters
never get hockey players. You can tell them to go
hit a bag for three minutes, or just say go
hit that bag at noon on Tuesday and you could
forget you told them that and come back Thursday they'll
still be hitting the back. That's the best way I
can spend out. Yeah, great work. It's such a pleasure
(15:01):
to be around. They're great.
Speaker 4 (15:02):
People don't realize because it's interesting because since I got here,
you know, I was watching practice, I watched it from
the stands, and the games I watched from the press
box up on the eighth floor. But during practice I
get down on the bench and I watched them at
at at the ice level, and.
Speaker 5 (15:20):
It is so fast. Yeah, the game is so fast.
Speaker 4 (15:23):
It's amazing that they can do what they do because
up there it slows everything down and you say, well,
why couldn't they do that, make a turn or whatever.
But on the eyes you realize, man, this is a
fast sport. Everything's quick, and you know you're doing it on.
Speaker 2 (15:37):
Ice, and so reactionary because yeah, you don't even it's
gonna go bounce, So reactionary for the bill cut like,
oh yeah, they're they're man.
Speaker 3 (15:44):
Their next level. They're they're athleticism isn't appreciated.
Speaker 5 (15:48):
Yes, rand I would agree with that. Yes, all right.
Speaker 2 (15:51):
Yeah, we talked about you working with Kobe and Jack
and Michael Jordan, and so let's go back to those
guys and again the biggest thing. Let's say, Jordan, what
did the biggest thing you worked on with him? Because
I'm sure your program is different back then it is now.
And what's the top thing you've learned from Michael Jordan?
Speaker 4 (16:08):
Yeah, the main thing was I was explaining to him
how he could do things and how he.
Speaker 5 (16:12):
Could take it to the next level.
Speaker 3 (16:14):
Wow.
Speaker 5 (16:14):
Really, Yes, that's that's what it was.
Speaker 4 (16:16):
Because before I met him, you know, actually the name
of my lcs I of the Hurricane.
Speaker 5 (16:22):
And what I noticed about him.
Speaker 4 (16:24):
From Afar was that when things got you know, chaotic,
he got more calm. You know, he just had a
way of being in that calmness and still being able
to perform at a high level. And the other thing
I realized about him that was unique.
Speaker 5 (16:40):
I'll just say I roomed with doctor Jay in college.
Julia serving, Yeah, you room with doctor Remember.
Speaker 2 (16:45):
I said, you're the most interesting man in the world.
Put you up there. We definitely got to hit that.
We gotta hit finished on Jordan, but we're going back
to doctor.
Speaker 3 (16:54):
Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 4 (16:55):
So when I when I when I saw Michael, to me,
he was acting like he was still trying to make
the team.
Speaker 5 (17:03):
And what year was that in the league room when
I started working with the boats was ninety three?
Speaker 4 (17:07):
It was October ninety three, but he was around, but
he wasn't with the team. You know, he's playing baseball whatever.
He came back in ninety five after eighteen months. You
know that I have been working with the team eighteen
months and he came back of Macha nineteen ninety five
and just watching him and he didn't have his basketball
leagues that late in the season. But what I saw
was the way he played and the way he practiced
(17:29):
was no different.
Speaker 5 (17:30):
It was no difference.
Speaker 4 (17:30):
He was always coming at you learning and it was
like he was trying to make the team because he
got cut from his high school basketball team. So I
guess he promised himself he would never that would never
happen again. But to me, that's a prime example of
adversity leveling you up. No struggle, no swag being a gift.
He had a lot of swags. So and there's all
(17:52):
these sayings like no pressure, no diamonds. You know, pressure
is a privilege. So he embodied that even when I
was working with him. It was interesting when he first
came back, and you know, maased to come to Boston
and I would work out with the team that day
of the game and I might take them through some
physical stuff and some mental stuff and give them some concept.
(18:13):
And I was doing the sun salutation with them, having them,
you know, do the sun salutation. And he had hurt
his hand and he had a steam machine on his hand,
and I said, oh, Mike, you don't.
Speaker 5 (18:22):
Have to do that. You know this is and he
did it. He did it.
Speaker 4 (18:26):
You know, it's like, no, man, I'm doing this. It's
like that is you see what I'm saying. So it
was like and he was curious, and he was he
was he once again, he was humble and hungry. He
saw he saw what I was doing was going to
help level everybody else up. But I think the true
testament to our work together was when you watched the
last Dance and he talked about how he loved that
(18:50):
that championship that they won because he was learning how
to play more spiritually because he didn't have the physical
gifts that he had before, but he was still really good.
But he realized that being able to be in a
moment and to be able to because see if I
would have been working with him when he first came in,
because he spent a lot of time in his hotel
and we couldn't go anywhere right right, right, and so
(19:13):
but he got what I was teaching him, and he
got how it helped.
Speaker 5 (19:16):
Him with his leadership style and everything else. And it
was just but.
Speaker 4 (19:20):
I was explaining to him because sometimes we do things,
but when you can do something and you understand what
you're doing and how you do it, it makes it easier
for you to keep doing it and actually go to
the next level.
Speaker 5 (19:31):
Does that make sense?
Speaker 3 (19:32):
Yeah? Yeah, you know what I love, you know, the
being in the moment part.
Speaker 2 (19:35):
I think you had a line in the last dance
where somebody asked if he was nervous to take.
Speaker 3 (19:39):
A shot and he's like, why I haven't taken the
shot yet, or he's nervous to miss, right, And he's like, yeah,
why do I nervous? I haven't taken the shot.
Speaker 2 (19:45):
Yet, yes, which is kind of exactly what you're talking
about being a moment.
Speaker 3 (19:48):
You don't worry about something in the future.
Speaker 5 (19:50):
And he talked about it.
Speaker 4 (19:51):
He said, when the moment comes, you know, you know
what's going to happen, and things get quiet, and he
was talking about being on his own and being in
flow and that's it. You know, you're not even in
there and you're doing stuff and it's so creative. So
the thing he embodied what I talk about, and it's
really important, the silence or the stillness, that quiet place
within Kimpbell talked about in the Power of Myth. He says,
(20:13):
when the athlete is in championship, for him, that coming
from their center, from that quietness, from that silence, and
you're not compelled by fear of desire, you're just expressing yourself.
But when you come from that space, there's a creativity
and there's a wisdom or intuition that comes.
Speaker 5 (20:30):
Out of that that you don't even know how it's
going to manifest. That's what makes it so exciting. When
I go back, I'll connect with doctor Jay with this.
Speaker 4 (20:38):
When I was rooming with Julius, it was his junior year,
my sophomore year and he had signed with the ABA
with the Virginia Schoirs, and after he signed, he had
an old Chevy. I forget what kind of chev it was.
We drove for his first semi pro game. It was
in port Chester, New York. We were in Amherst, mass
So we drove to the game and he's playing against
(20:58):
these older guys. They got popped bellies and everything, and
they could play. And all of a sudden, I seen
him playing. And you got to understand when he played
in the college game because of Kareem, they outlawed Duncan,
so you couldn't stuff the ball in a regular game.
You're doing in the warm, but not in the regular game.
So all of a sudden he has to freedom. And
(21:18):
although that was two years or whatever, it's not paying
the dunk. He was making stuff up. And I'm looking
at Hi because I was watching practice every day we
play together and everything, and I'm saying, man, he's making stuff.
Fuck he was oh, and I laughed. But it's not
like he's not trying it. But you can see he
was in the very zone. He was in the flow,
and he was he was like a ballet dancer. He
(21:40):
was doing it with so much great deeds and with
power and so I've been privileged to be able to
see him come out in his first varsity game I saw.
Speaker 5 (21:50):
I think he had thirty two points and twenty eight rebounds.
Speaker 3 (21:53):
Wow.
Speaker 4 (21:53):
He was one of the few at that time there
were three players that averaged twenty twenty one points and
reboumbs in college game.
Speaker 3 (22:00):
Did you know him before entered?
Speaker 2 (22:01):
You guys just did the universe just put you guys
together in college roommates?
Speaker 5 (22:06):
Yeah? Well, we had we had friends, We used to
play pick up together.
Speaker 4 (22:09):
We decided we were gonna, oh, you know, one of
our friends, Hermann, was head of residence, so he put
us all on the same floor and he put me
in doctor together, and so I had planning on playing
for the team, you know, but I got injured and that.
Speaker 5 (22:21):
Was the end of my career.
Speaker 4 (22:22):
But I still was involved in the team when we
had recruits come in and whatnot, I was still involved
in it. And then my other room mate, Alex Kinner came,
He was a year behind, and he was there, and
you know, Rick Patino was there when I was there.
Speaker 5 (22:34):
So there were a lot of folks there at U
MASS when I was there.
Speaker 2 (22:37):
And to help a guy like here, maturity there's somebody
get in that zone and get everything calm to have
that common cast.
Speaker 3 (22:45):
Is there a breath work that you teach them.
Speaker 2 (22:47):
Is there another form of mindfulness like a quick meditation
you teach them.
Speaker 3 (22:52):
Fill me in on that.
Speaker 4 (22:53):
Yes, well, there's various approaches to it. You know, there's
the Zen approach, there's a TM approach. Is all of
these approaches. I tend to focus on just focusing on
the breath and breathing, but it's really more about how
do you know if you you know? And it's interesting
because I'm not really making it up. If you think
about the nervous system, you have the sympathetic and the
(23:15):
power sympathetic. So on one side the left brain I'm
right hand, and so the left brain would be you
know linear, you know, that's where the fight, flight, the
freeze happens. And then the right brain is you know,
one plus one doesn't equal to one plus one could
equal six, but it's a nonlinear, and it's what they
call the rest and digest.
Speaker 5 (23:34):
See.
Speaker 4 (23:34):
So when you're when you're in that, you know, when
you're in the power sympathetic and you have the sympathetic,
but the sympathetic dominates it dominates everything one plus one
equals to the words of the song.
Speaker 5 (23:44):
It dominates.
Speaker 4 (23:45):
And unless you can get into what what Herbert Mention
called the relaxation response, where you're able to the rest
and digest, where you're able to stop this from dominating
and let the other side get in like the melody
of the song, the whole picture. So you have to
side of your brain because they're not like fifty to
fifty that you know, they interact and it's like those
(24:06):
cot jorining circles and whatnot. But you have to learn
how to self regulate. You have to learn how to
raise your energy, which would be the linear brain, and
you know, increase your intensity and at the same time
you got to be able to lower it. You got
to be able to be in that that calm, that
that that quiet place.
Speaker 5 (24:22):
So you need to do both. You know, there's a time.
Speaker 4 (24:24):
So that's self regulation is you got to meet the
intensity of whatever it is the challenge you have in
front of you. But at the same time, if you
do it too fast and you get frenetic, that's not
going to get it done either. It's like if I
think about if you play a string instrument, a guitar
or violin. If you if the string is too tight,
you won't get the right note, and if it's too loose,
you won't get the right note.
Speaker 5 (24:45):
You got to just balance it just right. Does that
make sense?
Speaker 3 (24:48):
Yeah? Love that. Yeah.
Speaker 5 (24:50):
So it's it's it's so the techniques.
Speaker 4 (24:53):
I have a big tool bag of how I draw
on what to do, but really it comes down to
how to get you, you know, to understand that you
have autonomy to some degree that you can direct your
attention to something, to a thought, to an object, and
how do you direct it and sustain the attention?
Speaker 5 (25:11):
How do you deal with distractions?
Speaker 4 (25:13):
And how can you stay in the moment and not
get pulled back into the past or push the head
into the future.
Speaker 5 (25:19):
You have to be able to be moment to moment,
be in a moment.
Speaker 4 (25:22):
And you got to have strategies and you have to
have the awareness that know, okay, I'm still in the
last play that occurred instead of.
Speaker 5 (25:28):
Being in the moment.
Speaker 4 (25:29):
And it's interesting, I was watching this the NCAA's and
it was fast walking or something and this woman she
was in front, young lady, she was in front, and
she was getting close to the finish line, and she
started celebrating, and she started stating the person next to her,
just one. That's what I'm talking about. You can it
doesn't have to be just fear or frustration. You can
(25:50):
get pulled away violation or joy and forget lose yourself
and focus on how you're doing and not stay focused
on what you're doing. So this ability to do erecting
and sustained attention, that's what differential genius is from other
people because they know what the focus on and they
know how to sustain it.
Speaker 3 (26:07):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (26:08):
Look, you have a bunch quotes I love, but one
really love. His success is ninety nine percent failure.
Speaker 3 (26:13):
I love it. Yeah, I love that.
Speaker 2 (26:15):
Love that people don't understand the gift that indversity is.
But like that woman, now, like Garte, she's gonna grow
from that.
Speaker 4 (26:22):
Yeah, yeah, well it's gonna and you know, and the
interesting thing is it's possible that that little growth, that
that mistake she made could level up to win the
next three four races.
Speaker 3 (26:33):
Right, exactly sucks at the time, but could really.
Speaker 2 (26:36):
Like it sucked for Michael Jordan to get based in
high school at the time, but look what it different. Right,
So we talked about Jordan. We talked about the Whilers.
Tell me about Kobe working with Kobe.
Speaker 5 (26:45):
And yeah, well I learned from Kobe.
Speaker 4 (26:46):
It's interesting because when I first met him, well, you know,
i've met him before, I work with him with the Lakers,
but when he was in Lakers it was two thousand,
I read I write about this in my book The
Mindful Athlete, as well as Unmarked. It was at one
game in two thousand, my first year working with them,
and Kobe was like he had this intensity and it
(27:07):
was like he was trying to score thirty two points
or thirty five points in one shot, right, So he
was really like really going after it. And if you
think about it, let's say he wants to average thirty
two points, get thirty two points that game. So from
a linear point of view, you're going to say eight
times four that's thirty two. So each quarter, I just
have to score eight points. And so the problem challenge
(27:28):
with that is if you only score four points in
the first quarter, then you go into the second quarter
you feel like you.
Speaker 5 (27:34):
Got to I'm pressed for twelve and you're pressing.
Speaker 4 (27:37):
And so what I said to him, I gave him
a Zenko on really I said, Kobe, the best way
to score is not to try to score, you know,
just in other words, I was saying.
Speaker 3 (27:46):
Because look like you were crazy on Saturday again.
Speaker 5 (27:49):
It Yeah, he got it.
Speaker 4 (27:50):
And back in twenty fifteen when he invited me to
go hang out with him, I asked him about it.
Speaker 5 (27:55):
He remembered everything that was amazinging. He remember every damn
thing I told him.
Speaker 4 (27:59):
He has like these memories that can retain that stuff.
So he had sixteen points in the first quarter.
Speaker 3 (28:04):
Wow.
Speaker 5 (28:05):
So this is what unlocked means.
Speaker 4 (28:06):
It means that, see, you can be so hyper focused
on something that you're just focused on that and you
don't see all the opportunities that are there because you're
looking for the opportunity and instead of letting the opportunities
speak to you. And that's what mindfulness is about seeing
things in new, fresh ways and staying open but receptive
because the moment is pregnant with possibility, this moment, and
(28:28):
so we have to be able to see things in
new and different ways and stay open for the possibilities
that we might miss because we're looking for something instead
of letting the situation communicate to us.
Speaker 3 (28:40):
Jo he learned from you what'd you learn from him?
Be around him?
Speaker 5 (28:44):
Well, the same thing I taught him is what I
learned him.
Speaker 4 (28:46):
But what I learned about him was his ability to
be comfortable being uncomfortable and pushing and doing things. And
when you know, that's where the Mama mentality came from.
But I had that mentality myself because you know, I'm
you know, I do things like that.
Speaker 5 (29:04):
You know, I lived in a meditation.
Speaker 4 (29:06):
Center for six years and still worked and everything, and
that it was a class that I would attend, and
I attended that class for six years every Tuesday.
Speaker 5 (29:14):
I mean that kind of you know people who does that,
you know, And I think that's what I did. But
it was because I.
Speaker 4 (29:20):
Was pursuing excellence in wisdom, man, And I didn't even know.
I just it was just an impulse. Like one of
the things that I did was, you know, I'm coming
up on forty years of sobriety July thirtieth.
Speaker 3 (29:31):
For you, man, that's great.
Speaker 4 (29:32):
I've averaged over a week for those entire forty years. Really,
that's what I mean. So that's why we got along
because I had the momentmentality. I just didn't know what
to call it. I was just you know, but I'm intense, right,
But I learned that from him, that, you know, just
being able to share your experience with people, but enjoying,
you know, getting comfortable being uncomfortable. He loved working out,
(29:54):
He loved learning from from his mistakes, which is a
growth mindset, you know, what's the lesson and sharing it
with somebody the other day. Is first, one of his
first playoff experiences, he shot like three or four airballs
and so when he went back home to Newport Beach,
I don't know, only Kobe could do this. He called
the custodian and told him to open up the gym
(30:15):
and then he shot for like eight hours.
Speaker 3 (30:17):
Wow.
Speaker 5 (30:18):
Really, yes, So that's what I'm talking about.
Speaker 4 (30:21):
So for him, he taught me the tenacity and this
ability if you want something, you go after it, and
you don't mind cold calling somebody because when you want something,
you just you just go for it, you know. So
he taught me a lot, but it really it was his.
And for a long time I used to say, well,
he's the closest thing to Michael Jordan because I got
to work with both of them. But then at some
(30:42):
point when he had injured his finger and he changed
the shot and he didn't miss a day.
Speaker 5 (30:47):
That's what I said. Kobe is Kobe. I don't have
to compare him to MJ anymore because he earned his stripes.
But it's the adversity you notice.
Speaker 4 (30:55):
The comments is overcoming the adversity and choosing to level
up from it, choosing to embrace it. So I say,
no struggle, no swag. So if somebody has swagged, they
had struggle. You don't get struggles because you got to
earn that. You don't get swagged by just showing up
and saying, Okay, everything's cool and easy. No, you got
to have some adversity you got to go through. You
(31:16):
got to get comfortable with being uncomfortable. Otherwise you won't
get challenging, you won't get you know, your latent abilities
won't express themselves.
Speaker 3 (31:23):
George, I love this conversation, man, I got two more
for him. Shock's a good friend of mine. Tell your
experience with him.
Speaker 5 (31:28):
Shack is Shack is Shack. It would be like you
know we talking about like he would say to me.
Speaker 4 (31:36):
One of the first conversations we had, he said, do
you want me to tell you what you want to hear?
Speaker 5 (31:41):
You want the truth because that sound like.
Speaker 4 (31:44):
Him or not absolutely, And I said, I want the truth,
and so, yeah, so we used to have great conversations
and yeah, I mean he's like, he's a very compassionate,
generous and feisty, you know, because he used to get
beat up. I mean, people don't realize you talk about
(32:05):
all the other big men. I don't know if there's
ever been a big man like him where he was
getting fouled by five guys and they only called following one.
Speaker 5 (32:16):
You know, think about it, you know.
Speaker 4 (32:17):
And and so I think the other guys like Will
I think people might have been afraid to follow him whatever, or.
Speaker 5 (32:24):
They didn't play like that back then. You know, it
was you know, one on one or whatever.
Speaker 4 (32:27):
But when he played, he used to get beat up
all the time, and he would just tolerate it and
you know, and dominate.
Speaker 3 (32:35):
George.
Speaker 2 (32:35):
My last question for you, man, I asked every one
of my guest this, give me your unbreakable moment, that
moment that should have broken you could have and didn't,
and as.
Speaker 3 (32:44):
A result, you came through the other side of that
tunnel stronger forever.
Speaker 2 (32:47):
It's exactly what you're talking about, adversity being a gift
biggest adversity that made you as strong as you are today.
Speaker 4 (32:53):
Yes, dealing with my addiction obviously, you know, being addicted
and feeling like.
Speaker 5 (32:59):
You know, I was going to die and that I was.
Speaker 4 (33:03):
Destined for jail's institution and death. And I had just
I had a strep infection. So I was in the
hospital for a couple for a week or so, and
the doctor was telling me I was going to die
unless I had changed, and I was a functional somethings music.
So it was April first, and one of the guys
I usually hang out with when.
Speaker 5 (33:21):
Of my friend, Danny, came by my house and took
me to an AA meeting, and April Food took me
to the AA meeting.
Speaker 4 (33:27):
I couldn't even stay in the meeting the whole time,
but I didn't think there was a way out until
I saw somebody who was just like me, sober and clean.
Speaker 5 (33:37):
That was that was that changed everything.
Speaker 3 (33:41):
Really beautiful.
Speaker 2 (33:42):
I appreciate that, man, I'm really man, I'm so glad
you and I connected.
Speaker 3 (33:46):
So glad we linked up and you're in LA. Next time,
I would love to take you out to dinner man,
a little bread.
Speaker 4 (33:51):
Yeah, So let's do that because I usually spend about
fifty days a year there, right, let's talk about it.
And we got a lot in common because you know,
I studied tight chief for many years and I've been
really having that martial art artist attitude and you know,
work ethic and the zen that's how I got it.
Speaker 5 (34:09):
You know, there's in and all that sort of sort
of stuff.
Speaker 4 (34:12):
Like I actually went to Hong Kong back in the
nineties and I felt like I was at home. Man,
between my meditation taichi being out there doing my Thai
chi and Chee hung and stuff. It was like, wow, man,
it was really but I really I realized that it
wasn't just because I was in the Orient. It was
because I got to a place where I realized the
home is where the heart is wherever I am there,
(34:33):
I am.
Speaker 3 (34:33):
Yeah, I love it.
Speaker 2 (34:35):
I spent the last two off season Thailand, same thing,
praying the jungles man, I, oh my god, and I
and that's actually I learned breath work out there, meditation
and gratitude lists.
Speaker 3 (34:45):
And you're right that that is my happy place.
Speaker 4 (34:47):
Because yeah, yeah, this's ty Forest Masters that I learned
a lot of meditation from.
Speaker 2 (34:53):
Actually, yeah, hey, I'll tell you it's real quick before
we go, I'll let you go if I walk in
this place. It's called Common Alliance and Coasta movie Thailand,
and I'm doing my first ever meditation and somebody try
to get me to learn transidental meditation.
Speaker 3 (35:07):
I do a lot of work with.
Speaker 2 (35:08):
Vets, and I am really I'm a high strung cat dude,
and I'm usually aggressive. And the guy gave him my
mantra and I did it for the first couple of times,
and then I didn't like it, and he told me, well,
you can't change it.
Speaker 3 (35:21):
It chose you. And that wasn't a good answer for me,
so I started geting frustrated.
Speaker 2 (35:26):
Then I wanted to choke out my meditation guy, and
so my other friends like, you need to learn.
Speaker 3 (35:31):
How to meditate it there's anybody.
Speaker 2 (35:32):
So I go out there and we're in this like
hutment over the CMC and there's about eight other people
of the class, and this.
Speaker 3 (35:38):
Time Monk was teaching us breath work. Looks at me.
I've only been there like one.
Speaker 2 (35:43):
I got in late the night before, so it's the
first time I met with everybody else.
Speaker 3 (35:46):
As time, Monk looks at me and he goes ooh,
you got to learn how to love yourself up. You
got to learn that. I thought he was talking to
someone else. Now he's talking to this poor bastard right here.
So it's changed my life. But I've learned it in
a later stage and I'm glad I have.
Speaker 4 (36:00):
Yeah, it's it's it's interesting because I don't know if
I could find it. It's something about you know, you
get the place and you it gets all comfortable.
Speaker 5 (36:10):
You want to give up.
Speaker 4 (36:11):
And when you get to that place, that that wall,
you know where you can't if we call a bottom,
you can't keep going and can't stop. That's when you
know you're going someplace. Now you know you're getting to
the actual work. Because a lot of people stopped meditating
because they see that their mind is crazy and they say,
I can't do this. But actuality it's not about doing,
it's about being. You're seeing how your mind is, and
(36:32):
by looking at it from a from a quantum physics
point of view, you know the observer and the observer
are interacting. So when you start to investigate and examine
how you're living, you actually change your experience.
Speaker 5 (36:45):
That's a good one.
Speaker 3 (36:46):
Huh, that's a great one.
Speaker 2 (36:47):
And I know what you're saying, because now that I
do meditate, Yeah, it was Look, you got my level
of ADHD. It's hard to sit there and meditate and
and unplugging, get like, get to that place.
Speaker 3 (36:58):
Man. When you get there, it's it's beautiful. I did
three day one in Thailand to change my life.
Speaker 5 (37:04):
There's a philosopher. Two of them my guests, doctor Dre
and Sloop Dogg. I got my mind on money, money
on my mind. That's meditation.
Speaker 4 (37:11):
See, because to meditate means to contemplate, and the contemplate
means to look at repeatedly and look at closely. So
we have this idea that we're only meditating with this,
but I would suggest that you become what you think
about what you hold in mind.
Speaker 5 (37:24):
Manifests and most of us don't know what we're thinking
or what we're holding in mind.
Speaker 4 (37:28):
So a former contemplation is you don't have to be
solid and quiet. You can just reflect on you know
what you're thinking, what is your your self talk? Is
it positive as a negative? You know what is what's
on your mind? And I can guarantee you you're like
probably the rest of us if you happen to have
a conversation different with a difficult person and you're having
(37:50):
a conversation with them and they're not there. That's my
conversation with myself, yeself talking and you're telling you how
it's going to go wrong and how they're not going
to listen to you, And that's exactly what happens when
you see them out just out of curiosity. Try having
a conversation where you actually can communicate with each other
in yourself. Doctor, see what happened.
Speaker 3 (38:08):
So what I do now, tell me is along the
right lines.
Speaker 2 (38:11):
So I'll meditate now where I'll only concentrate on my
accounts of my breath, nothing else.
Speaker 3 (38:18):
So I got for everything else just that right, so
I gave everything else a break.
Speaker 2 (38:21):
Then I'll meditate and I'll just meditate on things I'm
grateful for, nothing else.
Speaker 3 (38:26):
So I usually do it for a song. I'll play
a song, so five minutes teach, and then the last
one is things.
Speaker 2 (38:31):
I'm proud of, because it's being proud of yourself. People
don't realize you got to practice that. You gotta work
in a lot of people like to put themselves down.
A lot of people really, you know, shit all over themselves.
You got practice giving yourself some grace and being proud
or it's not enough for you know, people are like,
oh it's not enough for I did this, but that
person did that, right.
Speaker 3 (38:50):
So that's what that's my morning meditation every day.
Speaker 4 (38:52):
Yeah, that you know what I call that practice catch
yourself with somebody else doing something right.
Speaker 5 (38:59):
See, that's it because.
Speaker 4 (39:00):
We but let's talk about it and I'll leave you
with this. The reptilian brain, you know what it does.
Its job is to seek out danger. So nine out
of ten thoughts are going to be negative, and so
we got to get the positivity. So we got to
get the three to one ratio. Three positive thoughts are
one negative thought. And the only way you're going to
(39:22):
do that is through gratitude practice, forgiveness and just focusing
on what's right, focusing on what you want. And it's
interesting because we don't do that. We're kind of wired
to look at, you know, pathology. Our whole society is
based on pathology instead of really that they called the
broad and built theory. When you can get yourself at positive,
it totally changes everything. And so so the gratitude practice.
(39:46):
An interesting thing about gratitude practice or being proud you're
reflecting on things that already happen. That's a good one.
What might happen is already happen.
Speaker 3 (39:57):
So I'm taking away the fear of the unknown year
of the future.
Speaker 2 (40:01):
Yeah, and again, like I said, I spent too many
years beating ump by myself, so now it's time to
fill that jug up.
Speaker 5 (40:07):
Well.
Speaker 4 (40:08):
I appreciate you, man, I appreciate you making that too
transformation because you know why, because that's gonna ripple into
everything you do and you're gonna be modeling what people can.
Speaker 5 (40:16):
Do to be at peace.
Speaker 2 (40:19):
I appreciate it so much, man, you were This is fantastic.
I'm I'm so looking.
Speaker 5 (40:23):
Forward to breaking bed with you, man, and we're going
to hang brother.
Speaker 2 (40:27):
Thank you, George Muntfort, Thank you joining us here in
the Unbreakable Podcast.
Host
Jay Glazer
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