March 20, 2024 • 27 mins
As the world heats up, our cities need to adapt. Today we speak with Thai landscape architect Kotchakorn Voraakhom on how she's designing new, more resilient urban environments in her homebase of Bangkok.
Show notes from Chris:
- Sadly, our cities are increasingly vulnerable to global heating. Flooding, heatwaves, storms, rising sea level, poor planning, and our over reliance on concrete are conspiring to make cities less resilient to climate shocks. But nature-based solutions – think parks, green spaces and tree-lined avenues to name but a few – offer positive solutions. The mayors of nearly 100 cities around the world have come together as C40 to tackle the climate crisis and have put together a great overview of what they’re doing. A term you’re going to hear more about with cities is “sponginess”. Rather than using concrete to channel water, “sponge cities” work with nature to manage rainwater. This is a fascinating article on how some of the world’s cities compare.
- You can see Kotchakorn’s awe-inspiring Bangkok park in her beautiful TED talk here. There is a wonderful interview with Kotchakorn about the Chulalongkorn University Centenary Park.
- To learn more about The Nature Conservancy and how they can help you tackle the climate and biodiversity crises, check out their fantastic website.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
We assume that and Co will be able to enlarge
its capacity to our greed.
Speaker 2 (00:08):
Right.
Speaker 1 (00:09):
We want more people, we want more buildings, we want
more economics, we want more tourists, and we assume that
bank can handle it. Whereas the line itself, every line
or every infrastructure is haves its capacity, and we also
destroy the natural infrastructure to reduce its capacity without knowing.
Speaker 2 (00:38):
Greetings, I'm Chris Turny and this is Unfucking the future,
and together with you, I'm here sorting through this maze
of environmental challenges we're facing. It's easy to feel paralyzed
by the climate crisis, but action is at the heart
of this show. I'm Fucking the Future celebrates the remarkable
(00:59):
individual who are paving the way for a better future
and learning how we too can make a difference. Let's
dive in Fucking the future. Weird a fucking the future.
When you think of a climate crisis, what do you
(01:21):
think of? For a long time, the image of climate
change was that lone polar bear abandoned on a small
and melting piece of ice. He looks so sad, doesn't he.
It's true that polar bears are really suffering right now,
and It's also true that the Arctic is melting. I've
(01:41):
seen it for myself, but for a lot of people,
climate change just doesn't look like that. In Southeast Asia,
which has the most coastline of any region, climate change
looks like biblical floods, which are becoming part of a
new normal. Seriously, google it. I mean, don't google it
now because I want you to keep listening. But if
(02:02):
you search for flooding Bangkok, you'll see photo after photo
of people using canoes to navigate flooded streets and desperately
trying to push small motorbikes through waste high water. Bangkok
is one of the many cities across the world that
is sinking, and landscape architects that Kotcha Khan Voracom are
(02:23):
fighting desperately to save the city from becoming completely uninhabitable.
Kocha Korn our guest today, is using landscape architecture to
build more resilient cities. In her hometown of Bangkok, she
designed one of the most incredible parks in the world.
Here's a clip from her ted talk.
Speaker 1 (02:42):
This park is not about getting rid of flood, It's
about creating a way how we can leave with it.
Speaker 2 (02:49):
So all's to say the reason behind the design of
that park is actually pretty sad. See Bangkok is one
of many delta cities around the world, which means for
autumn flooding, I'm a normal part of life there with
many benefits for the ecosystem, but that normal flooding has
(03:09):
become far more intense and disruptive as a planet is
heating up. What Bangkok is dealing with now is something
new and dangerous, and this demands radical adaptations.
Speaker 1 (03:21):
It's never been a small town when I was born,
but to see the town's expanding and more dense, I
just feel that this is kind of part of like
growing up and seeing the city confronting with many challenges,
like in terms of population, in terms of density, in
term of the climate crisis, in terms of environmental degradation.
(03:46):
So I think that's like who I am as well.
The city is like who you are as part of
you as a person. So Bangkok is it's a fun city,
lots of culture and you may not that Tailan hasn't
been coronized, so I think the culture is quite there.
(04:07):
The city is there for probably two hundred plus years
as the capital of Thailand.
Speaker 2 (04:14):
Like many cities that have grown fast. Bangkok has been
paved over with a lot of concrete, but all that
concrete has disrupted the natural cycle of flooding and the
landscape's usual sponginess.
Speaker 1 (04:27):
Yes, so when it's flood, is actually flood on top
of the concrete because the water don't know where to go.
So we have this big path of huge urban setting
that cover on top of this flood plain, and we
cut off many canals and at some point we lose
(04:49):
sense of how we connect to the land and then
the cycle of the water.
Speaker 2 (04:53):
And growing up as a child in that environment, I mean,
especially when the flooding was happening, was that something that
was as a child? Was that fun when you had
the flooding, Oh my gosh.
Speaker 1 (05:03):
She's the best part of the whole year. Because you
need to go to school, school.
Speaker 3 (05:10):
Clothes, we don't know how to get there, because the whole.
Speaker 1 (05:14):
Story was like water that was fun. I think the.
Speaker 3 (05:21):
Water is quite clean enough that you know, like we
can play and you know, like be part of life.
And I think when it's flood we just take out
the boat and then.
Speaker 1 (05:35):
You know, seeing or race boat racing and there's so
many other culture in Thai culture that relating to a flood,
it's good.
Speaker 2 (05:46):
Water is a essential part of Thai identity and culture,
like for Tongue is an annual nationwide festival celebrating the
water spirits where locals and lanterns floating down the river,
and the Thaire New Year Festival Song Kraan is a
giant water festival where people throw water at each other
in the streets in celebration of the New Year.
Speaker 1 (06:09):
And people call us amphibious. Right, you know how to
leave it wet and dry?
Speaker 2 (06:14):
That's lovely, that's great. Let's say I think that's wonderful.
It's a beautiful fort, isn't it. But as floodings become
more intense and more frequent, water's influence on Thai culture
has become less fun and more serious. In twenty eleven,
Thailand experience the largest flood in a century. The entire
(06:39):
Thai Floodplain, which makes up a central region of the country, flooded.
It started in the less populated central north of Thailand.
During that time, the government attempted to build makeshift dams
and barriers that would stop the flooding from continuing down
to Bangkok. This trapped water in impoverished areas in the
(07:00):
countries north, but nothing can prevent the water from eventually
coming to Bangkok.
Speaker 1 (07:05):
So Bangkok is of course delta city. Right. The whole
water had to come through the city to go into
the ocean.
Speaker 2 (07:12):
Which meant that the entire city had to evacuate.
Speaker 1 (07:15):
All the news, all the business had to close down,
airport couldn't function, the whole cities become very empty. Because
people like your neighbors living and yes, but for some people,
poverty is become very part of the society, right, they
(07:35):
kind of move any other place, so they and I
have to stay in the flood, right, and you're thinking
about electric city systems that you know, all this thing
has very become very dangerous. So situation is getting like
either you die or you survive. Millions of people have
(07:58):
to move. And I think that's become like the deep
fear of other Bangkokian that when it's going to happen again.
Speaker 2 (08:09):
And for Couchucorn, it was an alarm bell. Our country
was in crisis.
Speaker 1 (08:15):
We assume that Bangkok will be able to enlarge its
capacity to our greed. Right, we want more people, we
want more buildings, we want more economics, We want more tourists,
and we assume that Bangkok can handle it. Where it's
(08:36):
the land itself. Every lane or every infrastructure is has
its capacity, and we also destroyed the natural infrastructure to
reduce its capacity without knowing.
Speaker 2 (08:51):
Bangkok is a city famous for its canals, which provides
essential flood mitigation, irrigation, and transportation. But to make room
for city life, developers have cut off many of the
canals from the riverways. In other instances, the canals are
being completely dredged and filled in with sand or concrete.
Speaker 1 (09:11):
We destroyed wetland, we destroyed canals. We didn't concern that
the whole watershed have to go to. Bangkok is have
to be a wet city, a wet design. It's signed
to get wet and its signed to get dry. But
when we want to be modernized, all this construction of
(09:33):
the city like high rise and things is the language
of commonality that we understand about the city, but we
forget that the city is not a piece of paper.
It's actually situated on the landscape is the wetland. The
city has forget it's landscape, the land, the ground.
Speaker 2 (09:59):
To put the crisis in perspective, Cocha Corn offered this comparison,
and the.
Speaker 1 (10:04):
Cellpa is getting melt. It's increasingly what quite one eighth
or two millimeters per year? That's right, really yeah, but
we sink two centimeters per year, So that's mean we
sink for a time faster than a sea level is rising.
Speaker 2 (10:26):
So you've got storm surges and intense rainy seasons and
at the same time we're drawing out more water from
below the cities, and the number of people living there
is increasing by the day. It's the perfect storm. And
the practical upshot is the cities are actually sinking, and
the big question is can we reverse it? Is anything
(10:49):
we do going to be enough.
Speaker 1 (10:51):
We have solar farms and many other sources of renewable energy,
and of course we are talking about energy transition, but
how fast we willing to change?
Speaker 2 (11:05):
Some delta cities are taking much more substantial measures to
address for flooding issues. Indonesia has chosen to create an
entirely new capital. The new city will be on a
different island from today's capital Jakarta, one with high hills
and far less people. But Kocha Korn says this idea
is a non starter in Thailand.
Speaker 1 (11:26):
But for US we don't even talk about moving Bangkok
right cusually or whatever. Politically is very sensitive and as
a politician, if you talk about I'm going to move Bangkok,
You're not going to get any word from the day one.
Speaker 2 (11:44):
Right, it's a new capital. It's a new capital, isn't it.
Chakata will remain as a city. But it's an extraordinary adaptation,
isn't it? To a sinking city will move a capital.
Speaker 1 (11:56):
But I just feel that as the est used to
call us amphibious, we have ability to be wet and dry,
and I just feel that if you want to remain
Bangkok as is, we need to go back to be
more amphibious.
Speaker 2 (12:15):
Which would be a huge shift from what Bangkok looks
like today. For most of it's modern history, Bangkok has
dealt with flooding by building gray infrastructure or traditional engineering solutions.
I think sea walls, ditches, and dams.
Speaker 1 (12:33):
Those solution is based on fear. So all the solution
is actually making us less resilience.
Speaker 2 (12:42):
Which seems incredible, doesn't it, Because you know, the traditional
for me growing up, the view that was always pushed
was we can just engineer our way out of these problems.
We put more gray engineering in We're putting more dams,
more sea walls, and we'll be all right. And what
we're realizing increasingly is it's just that's that's a dead end,
(13:02):
that is not going to get us out of this.
It's all built for resilience we so desperately need.
Speaker 1 (13:06):
Yes, I just feel that we are so caught up
into like this number. The bigger, the better, the stronger,
the more concrete, the better, the safer we will be.
And it's proved us wrong right throughout.
Speaker 2 (13:21):
This and we've had in mind. Koltchakn decided to create
a completely new park in Bangkok. As a landscape architect,
she's focused on addressing boath for needs of the people
who will use the space and also the needs of
the city itself.
Speaker 1 (13:37):
We use nature as our mediums like architects they use concrete,
they use class that use structure right before landscape architects.
We have trees, we have soil, we have plants, we
have biodiversity. This is the language of our professions, and
how can we use the design to enhance those materials
(14:02):
is living materials.
Speaker 2 (14:05):
In this urban setting.
Speaker 1 (14:06):
So landscape architects is actually the job that kind of
like finding the balance between cities and the nature and
its landscape. Event it has been destroyed, we help to
re claim. Event it has been forgotten, we helped to recreate.
Speaker 2 (14:26):
And that's what culture Corns set out to do. When
Chula Longkorn University, the oldest university in Thailand, put out
a request for proposals, but what to do with eleven
acres of land in central Bangkok as part of their
centennial celebration.
Speaker 1 (14:41):
And the plot of land is actually in the middle
of the city. The price of the land itself right
now is probably one billion US got people, yes, So
it's like at at the heart of Bangkok, and people
might assume it can be many other things. I'm not
a shopping malls and do you think we need my
(15:04):
shopping mill in Bangkok?
Speaker 2 (15:08):
Okay, We've got to pause here for our segment. Holy fuck,
Bangkok has almost sixty males. The largest is over five
and a half million square feet. That's bigger than Vatican City,
(15:29):
and they just keep coming. Bangkok hadn't opened a new
park for thirty years until Kochakorn created hers. But during
that same length of time, Bangkok built a whopping thirty
six mega malls. These babies are multiple flaws, tricked out
with the latest trends and cooled down the best air
(15:50):
conditioning in the city. But it's not just the energy
they used today, it's the energy and pollution caused to
build these monstrosities. Cement is a super polluter. If the
cement industry were a country, it would be the third
largest emitter in the world, after China and the US.
(16:10):
So when Kolchakor makes this quip about shopping malls, she's
totally serious. They really are a huge climate issue in Bangkok.
It's the kind of fact that makes you say, holy fuck.
Speaker 1 (16:30):
So we propose to have like an architecture for some function,
but the main concept is actually creating mitigation for flood
to adaptive design of the park.
Speaker 2 (16:45):
The entire park is built with floods in mind. One
end of a park is elevated, sitting on the top
of a small museum, and the hill serves an important purpose.
It allows the water to drain down to the retention
ponds that Cochacorn built throughout the park. Because Bangkok was
built on a floodplain, it has no hills. The water
(17:07):
used to be absorbed into the wetlands, but these have
long been paved over, So the water needs a place
to go, and it needs a bit of help figuring
out where to go once it hits the ground. The
hill solves that problem. It's an incredibly simple idea, but
it looks elegant and it complements the landscape beautifully. And
(17:29):
then can you tell me a bit about how the
rain water is actually cleaned by the plants in the park.
Speaker 1 (17:34):
So when you tilt the whole park, you have the
highest point and then the lowest point, so that drainage
pattern is actually equipped with the wetland and with the
water plants that can help and clean up the water,
and you can just loop that circulation back and forth
(17:55):
as part of the recreation areas in the park. That's
how the water plants become a major part of how
this park function.
Speaker 2 (18:07):
And one of the things I think that this park
shows so beautifully is it's how we can adapt to
climate change. And it's this idea that we can't fight
all the changes we're seeing. We're going to have to
learn to live with them, or even even thrive amongst them.
And one of the aspects of that which I really
I just thought was incredible is the bike design you
(18:29):
have for the retention ponds in the park, Can you
explain what these bikes do?
Speaker 1 (18:36):
Soide the level part of the park is this retention pond.
So I put like eight bike cycle. It's a water bicycle.
And when you come to the park you have to
exercise anyway, So we're thinking like how can we make
that exercise be part of the urban water system. So
(18:56):
when you exercise, you burn your carry and by that
that pedal of that bicycle can actually errate it that
retention on the energy that you have to put to
the bike depends on the water level. It's different every day.
Speaker 2 (19:13):
So did you encounter any resistance to your ideas?
Speaker 3 (19:16):
How was it?
Speaker 2 (19:17):
What was it like actually getting this being built up?
Speaker 1 (19:21):
Of course isn't that easy. We probably have a new
park every every year. Right, it has been like thirty
years without a new park in the Central bankrupt years.
Speaker 2 (19:34):
Thirty years good.
Speaker 1 (19:36):
Yes, some of our audience hasn't hasn't been born yet, Yes,
so thirty years ago, like no more park and you
can see how big the city, how dense the city.
We're fucking the future, We're work in the future.
Speaker 2 (20:07):
Culture Corn faced enormous challenges getting the park opened but
today it is considered a huge success and a case
study for how to make cities more resilient to flooding.
Speaker 1 (20:19):
It's become a very popular place for the youngster, especially
through this pandemic period that mental health becomes such a
very important thing. So just to have an open space
to park that you can come and join and relax
is very valuable. And with the purpose of this flooding mitigation,
(20:42):
I think if people just come to the park because
it's nice, that's the footstep. But when they start to
understand why it's be designed the way it is, I
think that's then another way to invite them to understand
and be part of this climate solution. It's also or
help reduce the ourban heat island in that area. With
(21:04):
the research, with the temperature around the park is actually
getting better than other block of the concrete buildings.
Speaker 2 (21:12):
The park holds up to a million gallons of water,
which is so important right now because Bangkok is experiencing
some of the most intense rain seasons in its history.
Speaker 1 (21:23):
Last year we experienced one hundred years of rain period
twice in one season.
Speaker 2 (21:30):
Really, the park has also contributed to increase biodiversity in Bangkok, itself.
Speaker 1 (21:36):
Natural infrastructure has many co benefits. I'm not only talking
about my park to solve flooding, It's also talking about
the health of the city, the health of the citizens,
the mental health, the open heat island, the biodiversity increased
in that surrounding area. We found more thirty type of
(22:00):
birds coming. So I just feel that this kind of
like nature based solution has mountain beneficial that every city
should reclaim, recall, regenerate, regenerate, whatever your nature is.
Speaker 2 (22:15):
Cotchacorn is just getting started. All her projects share the
same guiding principle. We should rely on the natural environment
to guide the way for design. Not if you have
a way around, I'm not.
Speaker 1 (22:27):
Going to be Not if they stop every development, damn
is bad. No, But how can we work to hybrid
these two things together. It's about how we can work
better with conventional engineer. I think when you work with nature,
you need to work with hope, right because you know
(22:48):
that the plan that you grow, you're not going to
be completely benefit from it because it takes time. The
plan that you grow today is actually not only gonna
be fit your lifetime, but it's going to benefit other
people's life and continues.
Speaker 2 (23:11):
Wow. I absolutely loved my conversation with Kochacorn. I was
so impressed by how much she is thinking long term
about the unique history of the land she comes from
and what she can do to protect its culture generations
into the future. And while not all of us are
visionary landscape architects, there are still a lot of ways
(23:34):
that we can learn from her example, which brings us
to our final segment today.
Speaker 4 (23:41):
Fuck can I know.
Speaker 2 (23:44):
This is a part of a show where we talk
about what you at home can do to help fight
for climate crisis, and joining us as always is our
good friend and activist Maggie Baird. Hi, Maggie, are you
ready to create a new Cotchacorn inspired park in Los Angeles?
Speaker 5 (24:00):
Well, Chris, I am not there quite yet, but I
really wish I could be. I was really inspired by
Catchihorn's designs. In our own lives, we can do small
things like this. For example, in our house, we took
out the grass in our front yard and put drought
resistant plants, and in every area of the country it
(24:21):
will be a little bit different. But this also goes
to show you how important it is to raise your
voice and keep talking about the climate in every aspect
of life, and beyond that, I want to direct people
to the Nature Conservancy. If you're in the US, you
might live in one of the many cities where their
(24:42):
North American Citi's network partners with local orgs to co
create equitable conservation practices and nature based solutions that address
the voice and the vision of local communities. We can
put some links in the show notes because, as we've
heard word, nature based solutions can make a tremendous difference
(25:04):
in helping alleviate climate extremes.
Speaker 2 (25:07):
Thanks so much, Maggie. I love that I'm equally inspired
by a story, and I'd love to see more people
start working sustainably in their cities. And that's what the
fuck you can do? What the fuck can I do?
I want to close in this message of hope from
Kochacus ted talk she gave back in twenty eighteen.
Speaker 1 (25:28):
No matter how rough the path, how big the crack,
you push to your goal because that's where your heart is.
And yes, Thailand is home. This land is my only home,
and that's where I firmly stand my heart. Where do
(25:54):
you stand?
Speaker 2 (25:54):
Yours?
Speaker 1 (25:55):
Thank you? Thank you? How path?
Speaker 2 (26:00):
I think we can all learn from Culture Corn's inspiring
vision and words. I'm so grateful we were able to
have her on the show. That's all for this episode.
Next time on I'm Fucking the Future, I'll talk with
m Sanjan, the CEO of a world's leading conservation organization,
Conservation International, about how we can harness a power of
(26:22):
oceans to save our planet.
Speaker 4 (26:25):
If you don't have a healthy ocean, you are making
it impossible to have a healthy planet. And you know,
I think we have spent so little effort focusing on oceans. Generally,
the amount of conservation dollars going into it is tiny.
Speaker 2 (26:45):
Until then, I'm Chris Turney signing off from Sydney, Australia.
Thanks for joining me in I'm Fucking the Future. We're
Fucking the Future. I'm Fucking the Future is produced by
Imagine Audio and Awfully Nice for iHeart Podcasts and hosted
(27:07):
by me Chris Turney. The show is written by Meredith Bryan.
I'm Fucking the Future is produced by Amber von Shassen
and Renee Colvert. Ron Howard Brian Grazer, Carral Welker and
Nathan Chloke are the executive producers from Imagine Audio. Jesse
Burton and Katie Hodges are the executive producers from Awfully Nice,
(27:27):
sound design and mixing by Evan Arnette, original music by
Lilly Hayden, and producing services by Peter mcgriggan. Sam Swinerton
wrote our theme and all those fun jingles. If you
enjoyed this episode, be sure to rate and review Unfucking
the Future on Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.
We assume that and Co will be able to enlarge
its capacity to our greed.
Speaker 2 (00:08):
Right.
Speaker 1 (00:09):
We want more people, we want more buildings, we want
more economics, we want more tourists, and we assume that
bank can handle it. Whereas the line itself, every line
or every infrastructure is haves its capacity, and we also
destroy the natural infrastructure to reduce its capacity without knowing.
Speaker 2 (00:38):
Greetings, I'm Chris Turny and this is Unfucking the future,
and together with you, I'm here sorting through this maze
of environmental challenges we're facing. It's easy to feel paralyzed
by the climate crisis, but action is at the heart
of this show. I'm Fucking the Future celebrates the remarkable
(00:59):
individual who are paving the way for a better future
and learning how we too can make a difference. Let's
dive in Fucking the future. Weird a fucking the future.
When you think of a climate crisis, what do you
(01:21):
think of? For a long time, the image of climate
change was that lone polar bear abandoned on a small
and melting piece of ice. He looks so sad, doesn't he.
It's true that polar bears are really suffering right now,
and It's also true that the Arctic is melting. I've
(01:41):
seen it for myself, but for a lot of people,
climate change just doesn't look like that. In Southeast Asia,
which has the most coastline of any region, climate change
looks like biblical floods, which are becoming part of a
new normal. Seriously, google it. I mean, don't google it
now because I want you to keep listening. But if
(02:02):
you search for flooding Bangkok, you'll see photo after photo
of people using canoes to navigate flooded streets and desperately
trying to push small motorbikes through waste high water. Bangkok
is one of the many cities across the world that
is sinking, and landscape architects that Kotcha Khan Voracom are
(02:23):
fighting desperately to save the city from becoming completely uninhabitable.
Kocha Korn our guest today, is using landscape architecture to
build more resilient cities. In her hometown of Bangkok, she
designed one of the most incredible parks in the world.
Here's a clip from her ted talk.
Speaker 1 (02:42):
This park is not about getting rid of flood, It's
about creating a way how we can leave with it.
Speaker 2 (02:49):
So all's to say the reason behind the design of
that park is actually pretty sad. See Bangkok is one
of many delta cities around the world, which means for
autumn flooding, I'm a normal part of life there with
many benefits for the ecosystem, but that normal flooding has
(03:09):
become far more intense and disruptive as a planet is
heating up. What Bangkok is dealing with now is something
new and dangerous, and this demands radical adaptations.
Speaker 1 (03:21):
It's never been a small town when I was born,
but to see the town's expanding and more dense, I
just feel that this is kind of part of like
growing up and seeing the city confronting with many challenges,
like in terms of population, in terms of density, in
term of the climate crisis, in terms of environmental degradation.
(03:46):
So I think that's like who I am as well.
The city is like who you are as part of
you as a person. So Bangkok is it's a fun city,
lots of culture and you may not that Tailan hasn't
been coronized, so I think the culture is quite there.
(04:07):
The city is there for probably two hundred plus years
as the capital of Thailand.
Speaker 2 (04:14):
Like many cities that have grown fast. Bangkok has been
paved over with a lot of concrete, but all that
concrete has disrupted the natural cycle of flooding and the
landscape's usual sponginess.
Speaker 1 (04:27):
Yes, so when it's flood, is actually flood on top
of the concrete because the water don't know where to go.
So we have this big path of huge urban setting
that cover on top of this flood plain, and we
cut off many canals and at some point we lose
(04:49):
sense of how we connect to the land and then
the cycle of the water.
Speaker 2 (04:53):
And growing up as a child in that environment, I mean,
especially when the flooding was happening, was that something that
was as a child? Was that fun when you had
the flooding, Oh my gosh.
Speaker 1 (05:03):
She's the best part of the whole year. Because you
need to go to school, school.
Speaker 3 (05:10):
Clothes, we don't know how to get there, because the whole.
Speaker 1 (05:14):
Story was like water that was fun. I think the.
Speaker 3 (05:21):
Water is quite clean enough that you know, like we
can play and you know, like be part of life.
And I think when it's flood we just take out
the boat and then.
Speaker 1 (05:35):
You know, seeing or race boat racing and there's so
many other culture in Thai culture that relating to a flood,
it's good.
Speaker 2 (05:46):
Water is a essential part of Thai identity and culture,
like for Tongue is an annual nationwide festival celebrating the
water spirits where locals and lanterns floating down the river,
and the Thaire New Year Festival Song Kraan is a
giant water festival where people throw water at each other
in the streets in celebration of the New Year.
Speaker 1 (06:09):
And people call us amphibious. Right, you know how to
leave it wet and dry?
Speaker 2 (06:14):
That's lovely, that's great. Let's say I think that's wonderful.
It's a beautiful fort, isn't it. But as floodings become
more intense and more frequent, water's influence on Thai culture
has become less fun and more serious. In twenty eleven,
Thailand experience the largest flood in a century. The entire
(06:39):
Thai Floodplain, which makes up a central region of the country, flooded.
It started in the less populated central north of Thailand.
During that time, the government attempted to build makeshift dams
and barriers that would stop the flooding from continuing down
to Bangkok. This trapped water in impoverished areas in the
(07:00):
countries north, but nothing can prevent the water from eventually
coming to Bangkok.
Speaker 1 (07:05):
So Bangkok is of course delta city. Right. The whole
water had to come through the city to go into
the ocean.
Speaker 2 (07:12):
Which meant that the entire city had to evacuate.
Speaker 1 (07:15):
All the news, all the business had to close down,
airport couldn't function, the whole cities become very empty. Because
people like your neighbors living and yes, but for some people,
poverty is become very part of the society, right, they
(07:35):
kind of move any other place, so they and I
have to stay in the flood, right, and you're thinking
about electric city systems that you know, all this thing
has very become very dangerous. So situation is getting like
either you die or you survive. Millions of people have
(07:58):
to move. And I think that's become like the deep
fear of other Bangkokian that when it's going to happen again.
Speaker 2 (08:09):
And for Couchucorn, it was an alarm bell. Our country
was in crisis.
Speaker 1 (08:15):
We assume that Bangkok will be able to enlarge its
capacity to our greed. Right, we want more people, we
want more buildings, we want more economics, We want more tourists,
and we assume that Bangkok can handle it. Where it's
(08:36):
the land itself. Every lane or every infrastructure is has
its capacity, and we also destroyed the natural infrastructure to
reduce its capacity without knowing.
Speaker 2 (08:51):
Bangkok is a city famous for its canals, which provides
essential flood mitigation, irrigation, and transportation. But to make room
for city life, developers have cut off many of the
canals from the riverways. In other instances, the canals are
being completely dredged and filled in with sand or concrete.
Speaker 1 (09:11):
We destroyed wetland, we destroyed canals. We didn't concern that
the whole watershed have to go to. Bangkok is have
to be a wet city, a wet design. It's signed
to get wet and its signed to get dry. But
when we want to be modernized, all this construction of
(09:33):
the city like high rise and things is the language
of commonality that we understand about the city, but we
forget that the city is not a piece of paper.
It's actually situated on the landscape is the wetland. The
city has forget it's landscape, the land, the ground.
Speaker 2 (09:59):
To put the crisis in perspective, Cocha Corn offered this comparison,
and the.
Speaker 1 (10:04):
Cellpa is getting melt. It's increasingly what quite one eighth
or two millimeters per year? That's right, really yeah, but
we sink two centimeters per year, So that's mean we
sink for a time faster than a sea level is rising.
Speaker 2 (10:26):
So you've got storm surges and intense rainy seasons and
at the same time we're drawing out more water from
below the cities, and the number of people living there
is increasing by the day. It's the perfect storm. And
the practical upshot is the cities are actually sinking, and
the big question is can we reverse it? Is anything
(10:49):
we do going to be enough.
Speaker 1 (10:51):
We have solar farms and many other sources of renewable energy,
and of course we are talking about energy transition, but
how fast we willing to change?
Speaker 2 (11:05):
Some delta cities are taking much more substantial measures to
address for flooding issues. Indonesia has chosen to create an
entirely new capital. The new city will be on a
different island from today's capital Jakarta, one with high hills
and far less people. But Kocha Korn says this idea
is a non starter in Thailand.
Speaker 1 (11:26):
But for US we don't even talk about moving Bangkok
right cusually or whatever. Politically is very sensitive and as
a politician, if you talk about I'm going to move Bangkok,
You're not going to get any word from the day one.
Speaker 2 (11:44):
Right, it's a new capital. It's a new capital, isn't it.
Chakata will remain as a city. But it's an extraordinary adaptation,
isn't it? To a sinking city will move a capital.
Speaker 1 (11:56):
But I just feel that as the est used to
call us amphibious, we have ability to be wet and dry,
and I just feel that if you want to remain
Bangkok as is, we need to go back to be
more amphibious.
Speaker 2 (12:15):
Which would be a huge shift from what Bangkok looks
like today. For most of it's modern history, Bangkok has
dealt with flooding by building gray infrastructure or traditional engineering solutions.
I think sea walls, ditches, and dams.
Speaker 1 (12:33):
Those solution is based on fear. So all the solution
is actually making us less resilience.
Speaker 2 (12:42):
Which seems incredible, doesn't it, Because you know, the traditional
for me growing up, the view that was always pushed
was we can just engineer our way out of these problems.
We put more gray engineering in We're putting more dams,
more sea walls, and we'll be all right. And what
we're realizing increasingly is it's just that's that's a dead end,
(13:02):
that is not going to get us out of this.
It's all built for resilience we so desperately need.
Speaker 1 (13:06):
Yes, I just feel that we are so caught up
into like this number. The bigger, the better, the stronger,
the more concrete, the better, the safer we will be.
And it's proved us wrong right throughout.
Speaker 2 (13:21):
This and we've had in mind. Koltchakn decided to create
a completely new park in Bangkok. As a landscape architect,
she's focused on addressing boath for needs of the people
who will use the space and also the needs of
the city itself.
Speaker 1 (13:37):
We use nature as our mediums like architects they use concrete,
they use class that use structure right before landscape architects.
We have trees, we have soil, we have plants, we
have biodiversity. This is the language of our professions, and
how can we use the design to enhance those materials
(14:02):
is living materials.
Speaker 2 (14:05):
In this urban setting.
Speaker 1 (14:06):
So landscape architects is actually the job that kind of
like finding the balance between cities and the nature and
its landscape. Event it has been destroyed, we help to
re claim. Event it has been forgotten, we helped to recreate.
Speaker 2 (14:26):
And that's what culture Corns set out to do. When
Chula Longkorn University, the oldest university in Thailand, put out
a request for proposals, but what to do with eleven
acres of land in central Bangkok as part of their
centennial celebration.
Speaker 1 (14:41):
And the plot of land is actually in the middle
of the city. The price of the land itself right
now is probably one billion US got people, yes, So
it's like at at the heart of Bangkok, and people
might assume it can be many other things. I'm not
a shopping malls and do you think we need my
(15:04):
shopping mill in Bangkok?
Speaker 2 (15:08):
Okay, We've got to pause here for our segment. Holy fuck,
Bangkok has almost sixty males. The largest is over five
and a half million square feet. That's bigger than Vatican City,
(15:29):
and they just keep coming. Bangkok hadn't opened a new
park for thirty years until Kochakorn created hers. But during
that same length of time, Bangkok built a whopping thirty
six mega malls. These babies are multiple flaws, tricked out
with the latest trends and cooled down the best air
(15:50):
conditioning in the city. But it's not just the energy
they used today, it's the energy and pollution caused to
build these monstrosities. Cement is a super polluter. If the
cement industry were a country, it would be the third
largest emitter in the world, after China and the US.
(16:10):
So when Kolchakor makes this quip about shopping malls, she's
totally serious. They really are a huge climate issue in Bangkok.
It's the kind of fact that makes you say, holy fuck.
Speaker 1 (16:30):
So we propose to have like an architecture for some function,
but the main concept is actually creating mitigation for flood
to adaptive design of the park.
Speaker 2 (16:45):
The entire park is built with floods in mind. One
end of a park is elevated, sitting on the top
of a small museum, and the hill serves an important purpose.
It allows the water to drain down to the retention
ponds that Cochacorn built throughout the park. Because Bangkok was
built on a floodplain, it has no hills. The water
(17:07):
used to be absorbed into the wetlands, but these have
long been paved over, So the water needs a place
to go, and it needs a bit of help figuring
out where to go once it hits the ground. The
hill solves that problem. It's an incredibly simple idea, but
it looks elegant and it complements the landscape beautifully. And
(17:29):
then can you tell me a bit about how the
rain water is actually cleaned by the plants in the park.
Speaker 1 (17:34):
So when you tilt the whole park, you have the
highest point and then the lowest point, so that drainage
pattern is actually equipped with the wetland and with the
water plants that can help and clean up the water,
and you can just loop that circulation back and forth
(17:55):
as part of the recreation areas in the park. That's
how the water plants become a major part of how
this park function.
Speaker 2 (18:07):
And one of the things I think that this park
shows so beautifully is it's how we can adapt to
climate change. And it's this idea that we can't fight
all the changes we're seeing. We're going to have to
learn to live with them, or even even thrive amongst them.
And one of the aspects of that which I really
I just thought was incredible is the bike design you
(18:29):
have for the retention ponds in the park, Can you
explain what these bikes do?
Speaker 1 (18:36):
Soide the level part of the park is this retention pond.
So I put like eight bike cycle. It's a water bicycle.
And when you come to the park you have to
exercise anyway, So we're thinking like how can we make
that exercise be part of the urban water system. So
(18:56):
when you exercise, you burn your carry and by that
that pedal of that bicycle can actually errate it that
retention on the energy that you have to put to
the bike depends on the water level. It's different every day.
Speaker 2 (19:13):
So did you encounter any resistance to your ideas?
Speaker 3 (19:16):
How was it?
Speaker 2 (19:17):
What was it like actually getting this being built up?
Speaker 1 (19:21):
Of course isn't that easy. We probably have a new
park every every year. Right, it has been like thirty
years without a new park in the Central bankrupt years.
Speaker 2 (19:34):
Thirty years good.
Speaker 1 (19:36):
Yes, some of our audience hasn't hasn't been born yet, Yes,
so thirty years ago, like no more park and you
can see how big the city, how dense the city.
We're fucking the future, We're work in the future.
Speaker 2 (20:07):
Culture Corn faced enormous challenges getting the park opened but
today it is considered a huge success and a case
study for how to make cities more resilient to flooding.
Speaker 1 (20:19):
It's become a very popular place for the youngster, especially
through this pandemic period that mental health becomes such a
very important thing. So just to have an open space
to park that you can come and join and relax
is very valuable. And with the purpose of this flooding mitigation,
(20:42):
I think if people just come to the park because
it's nice, that's the footstep. But when they start to
understand why it's be designed the way it is, I
think that's then another way to invite them to understand
and be part of this climate solution. It's also or
help reduce the ourban heat island in that area. With
(21:04):
the research, with the temperature around the park is actually
getting better than other block of the concrete buildings.
Speaker 2 (21:12):
The park holds up to a million gallons of water,
which is so important right now because Bangkok is experiencing
some of the most intense rain seasons in its history.
Speaker 1 (21:23):
Last year we experienced one hundred years of rain period
twice in one season.
Speaker 2 (21:30):
Really, the park has also contributed to increase biodiversity in Bangkok, itself.
Speaker 1 (21:36):
Natural infrastructure has many co benefits. I'm not only talking
about my park to solve flooding, It's also talking about
the health of the city, the health of the citizens,
the mental health, the open heat island, the biodiversity increased
in that surrounding area. We found more thirty type of
(22:00):
birds coming. So I just feel that this kind of
like nature based solution has mountain beneficial that every city
should reclaim, recall, regenerate, regenerate, whatever your nature is.
Speaker 2 (22:15):
Cotchacorn is just getting started. All her projects share the
same guiding principle. We should rely on the natural environment
to guide the way for design. Not if you have
a way around, I'm not.
Speaker 1 (22:27):
Going to be Not if they stop every development, damn
is bad. No, But how can we work to hybrid
these two things together. It's about how we can work
better with conventional engineer. I think when you work with nature,
you need to work with hope, right because you know
(22:48):
that the plan that you grow, you're not going to
be completely benefit from it because it takes time. The
plan that you grow today is actually not only gonna
be fit your lifetime, but it's going to benefit other
people's life and continues.
Speaker 2 (23:11):
Wow. I absolutely loved my conversation with Kochacorn. I was
so impressed by how much she is thinking long term
about the unique history of the land she comes from
and what she can do to protect its culture generations
into the future. And while not all of us are
visionary landscape architects, there are still a lot of ways
(23:34):
that we can learn from her example, which brings us
to our final segment today.
Speaker 4 (23:41):
Fuck can I know.
Speaker 2 (23:44):
This is a part of a show where we talk
about what you at home can do to help fight
for climate crisis, and joining us as always is our
good friend and activist Maggie Baird. Hi, Maggie, are you
ready to create a new Cotchacorn inspired park in Los Angeles?
Speaker 5 (24:00):
Well, Chris, I am not there quite yet, but I
really wish I could be. I was really inspired by
Catchihorn's designs. In our own lives, we can do small
things like this. For example, in our house, we took
out the grass in our front yard and put drought
resistant plants, and in every area of the country it
(24:21):
will be a little bit different. But this also goes
to show you how important it is to raise your
voice and keep talking about the climate in every aspect
of life, and beyond that, I want to direct people
to the Nature Conservancy. If you're in the US, you
might live in one of the many cities where their
(24:42):
North American Citi's network partners with local orgs to co
create equitable conservation practices and nature based solutions that address
the voice and the vision of local communities. We can
put some links in the show notes because, as we've
heard word, nature based solutions can make a tremendous difference
(25:04):
in helping alleviate climate extremes.
Speaker 2 (25:07):
Thanks so much, Maggie. I love that I'm equally inspired
by a story, and I'd love to see more people
start working sustainably in their cities. And that's what the
fuck you can do? What the fuck can I do?
I want to close in this message of hope from
Kochacus ted talk she gave back in twenty eighteen.
Speaker 1 (25:28):
No matter how rough the path, how big the crack,
you push to your goal because that's where your heart is.
And yes, Thailand is home. This land is my only home,
and that's where I firmly stand my heart. Where do
(25:54):
you stand?
Speaker 2 (25:54):
Yours?
Speaker 1 (25:55):
Thank you? Thank you? How path?
Speaker 2 (26:00):
I think we can all learn from Culture Corn's inspiring
vision and words. I'm so grateful we were able to
have her on the show. That's all for this episode.
Next time on I'm Fucking the Future, I'll talk with
m Sanjan, the CEO of a world's leading conservation organization,
Conservation International, about how we can harness a power of
(26:22):
oceans to save our planet.
Speaker 4 (26:25):
If you don't have a healthy ocean, you are making
it impossible to have a healthy planet. And you know,
I think we have spent so little effort focusing on oceans. Generally,
the amount of conservation dollars going into it is tiny.
Speaker 2 (26:45):
Until then, I'm Chris Turney signing off from Sydney, Australia.
Thanks for joining me in I'm Fucking the Future. We're
Fucking the Future. I'm Fucking the Future is produced by
Imagine Audio and Awfully Nice for iHeart Podcasts and hosted
(27:07):
by me Chris Turney. The show is written by Meredith Bryan.
I'm Fucking the Future is produced by Amber von Shassen
and Renee Colvert. Ron Howard Brian Grazer, Carral Welker and
Nathan Chloke are the executive producers from Imagine Audio. Jesse
Burton and Katie Hodges are the executive producers from Awfully Nice,
(27:27):
sound design and mixing by Evan Arnette, original music by
Lilly Hayden, and producing services by Peter mcgriggan. Sam Swinerton
wrote our theme and all those fun jingles. If you
enjoyed this episode, be sure to rate and review Unfucking
the Future on Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.
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