November 13, 2024 • 43 mins
In 1933, Eleanor Roosevelt and Amelia Earhart ducked out of a White House event and commandeered a plane. The First Lady and the first lady of aviation flew to Baltimore and back. The event was documented by journalists, and later recounted in books. But there was more to this spontaneous joyride that didn't make the papers.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:09):
Originals.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
This is an iHeart original.
Speaker 3 (00:17):
The food was notoriously bad in FDR's White House. After all,
it was the Great Depression when his presidency began, and
one of First Lady Eleanor Roosevelt's tasks was to economize
the kitchen. Suddenly White House china was being used to
serve gelatin salads. Prune pudding was another common menu item.
(00:44):
Eleanor even encouraged the housekeeper to use milk or No,
a lab made powder, aptly named for its ingredients of
dried skim, milk and corn meal. Visitors who had joined
the Roosevelts for a meal sometimes shared a word to
the whys eat before you arrive. Ernest Hemingway even sent
(01:06):
ale after he dined in the White House, detailing the
worst meal of his life. He wrote, we had a
rainwater soup, followed by rubber squab, a nice wilted salad,
and a cake some admirer had sent in an enthusiastic
but unskilled admirer. Perhaps while digesting post meal, it must
(01:30):
have clicked for Hemingway. Why his companion that evening had
scarfed down a few sandwiches on the way over, So
maybe it was yet another dreary menu that had diners
itching to get away from the table. On April twentieth,
nineteen thirty three, the guests that evening included the First
(01:51):
Lady's brother and a couple big shots in the aviation industry.
An airline president as well as these soon to be
leader of government work on aeronautics. Fdr himself was out
of town. But there was one more influential figure sitting
at the table subjected to rubbery meat and whatever a
(02:12):
combination salad is. It was Amelia Earhart. She was as
big a celebrity as any in nineteen thirty three, admired
most for her daring solo flight across the Atlantic Ocean
the year before. So maybe it was the thrill of
sitting next to a world record breaker that made the
(02:33):
others eager to abandon their plates for something more audacious.
Whatever the reason, Amelia delivered on giving them the ultimate
excuse to leave the table. She was going to take
them all on a joy ride. Amelia, Eleanor and the
rest of the party drove to the local airport. They
climbed aboard an Eastern Air Transport twin engine Curtis Condor.
(02:59):
It looked how you might imagine an old timey plane
looks with two wings stacked on top of each other,
only big enough to fit a dozen or so people.
These passengers were part of an elite group in the
early thirties. Practically no Americans had ever even set foot
in a plane. Now in the air and looking down
(03:22):
they could see the Washington Monument and the White House
lit up against the dark sky. It was absolutely magical.
They flew to Baltimore and back. Amelia steered the plane.
Eleanor was in the control cabin with her, where she
said she felt quote on top of the world with
an unobstructed view. Another newspaper quoted Missus Roosevelt as saying,
(03:47):
it does mark an epoch, doesn't it when a girl
in an evening dress and slippers can pilot a plane
at night? The two women looked picture perfect, still in
their dinner party attire. They were wearing long gowns and
evening wraps. Eleanor was in a hat. Amelia had white
glas Son. This was the pinnacle of glamor and excitement,
(04:12):
a spectacle heightened by the depression the country was facing.
It wasn't every day that the first lady and the
first Lady of the Air just hopped.
Speaker 4 (04:21):
In an airplane.
Speaker 3 (04:23):
This was an adventure for the Ages. The event was
first documented in the papers and newsreels, and now it's
written into books and strewn across the Internet. The story
is often recounted as an impulsive, spur of the moment
decision to sneak away from dinner and take a wild ride.
(04:45):
But today's episode isn't about being caught up in the moment.
It's actually about being calculated, because Eleanor and Amelia's flight
of fancy may have just been a pr stunt. Welcome
to Very Special Episodes and iHeart original podcas. I'm your host,
(05:08):
Danish Schwartz and this is the joy Ride.
Speaker 5 (05:16):
Welcome back to very Special Episodes. I'm Jason English, very
lucky as always to be here with Danish Schwartz and
Zarn Burnett.
Speaker 6 (05:23):
Hey what's up guys? Hey, Hey, what of Dana? What
of Jason?
Speaker 3 (05:27):
This one, I have to say, is very very special
for me because in third grade, I don't want to brag,
but I did play Eleanor Roosevelt in our school's interactive
wax museum. Hell yeah, so I feel a particular kinship
to this episode.
Speaker 5 (05:42):
So we've got casting already. We don't have to do
that later.
Speaker 6 (05:47):
You could play all the parts.
Speaker 4 (05:49):
I'll reprise my role.
Speaker 3 (05:52):
This so called night flight that Eleanor and Amelia took,
it was so swinky, so spirited. From the outside looking in,
it really seemed to be.
Speaker 7 (06:02):
A joy ride, a skylark, a wonderful adventure.
Speaker 3 (06:07):
Your Susan Ware studies twentieth century US history and women's biography.
She knows a lot about Eleanor Roosevelt and Amelia Earhart.
Speaker 7 (06:17):
They are kind of hard to miss in twentieth century
American history.
Speaker 3 (06:22):
They knew it too, and standing by the plane's door
on that nineteen thirty three spring evening, Eleanor and Amelia
made it clear to the press that they were embarking
on something special.
Speaker 4 (06:35):
Missus Rotha, won't you go for a ride tonight over Washington.
Speaker 8 (06:39):
It's really lovely from.
Speaker 4 (06:40):
The air at night. I'd be very glad to go
over the ride overwatching I like going at night and
seeing the night very much.
Speaker 3 (06:48):
In this clip, they're already on the tarmac ready to go,
but they're talking as if their decision to take the
flight is being made right there right then a little
feigned surprise, never heard anyone right.
Speaker 7 (07:01):
But for the record, it can't have been totally spontaneous
because she don't leave the White House and go to
an airport and commandeer a plane.
Speaker 3 (07:12):
Susan's right, Amelia had arranged a plane before they left.
Speaker 4 (07:16):
The White House.
Speaker 3 (07:17):
Press was notified and gathered to see them take off.
There were even journalists on board. And if we're getting
technical about things, Amelia was in control of the plane
for part of the flight, but not the whole time.
A male pilot took off and landed the plane, probably
for legal reasons. That didn't take away from the triumph
(07:41):
of this event, but it did mean that it wasn't
low key. But really, almost nothing these women did was
low key. It really can't be overstated how famous they were.
Speaker 7 (07:54):
Well, I think this is the first time I've ever
been asked to compare Amelia Earhart to Taylor Swift. But
there is a way in which both of these women
are figures that everybody knows about, and I think it's
at that level, the kind of Oprah Winfrey, Taylor Swift,
it's up there in the stratosphere.
Speaker 3 (08:16):
In nineteen twenty eight, Amelia was the first woman to
cross the Atlantic in a plane called Friendship. The flight
turned her into an overnight celebrity. After it, she needed
four secretaries to deal with all the fan mail she received.
But Amelia wasn't actually the pilot on the Friendship. She
(08:37):
was just a passenger, which she compared to feeling like
a quote sack of potatoes. So a few years later,
in nineteen thirty two, she made the trip on her own.
Speaker 6 (08:51):
Four years ago, I was here after the Friendship.
Speaker 5 (08:54):
This time I tried to justify that flight by going alone.
Speaker 3 (08:58):
This truck made her the second person ever and the
first woman, to fly across the Atlantic solo. It took
nearly fifteen hours, just her and a single engine.
Speaker 7 (09:11):
Not even two engines, in case one goes out. We
all know that she disappeared on her last flight, trying
to do around the world flight in nineteen thirty seven,
and so in many ways that's people's image of Amelia Earhart.
But I think if that hadn't happened, what we would
remember her for is this nineteen thirty two flight.
Speaker 3 (09:31):
It's true, after this solo flight, the public became enamored
by her. People wanted to know everything, even the mundane
details of the journeys she took.
Speaker 8 (09:41):
How did you carry on the trip? You mean to eat, eat,
and drink.
Speaker 4 (09:46):
Well. I carried some water, of course, because.
Speaker 9 (09:49):
My cockpit is very warm.
Speaker 7 (09:51):
And I carried a sandwich in case I didn't eat it,
though I carried some hot chocolate, and the all reliable commatitudes.
Speaker 5 (10:01):
What kind of a sandwich was it?
Speaker 3 (10:07):
Amelia's fame was reaching new heights, and the Roosevelts were
ascending to new levels of power too. As the world
opened up before these women, they eventually crossed paths and
they really hit it off. They became friends.
Speaker 7 (10:24):
They were like kindred spirits, and they maintained that really
for the rest of the thirties. While Amelia Earhart was
still alive, she was always connecting with Eleanor Roosevelt. Eleanor
Roosevelt would also mention Amelia Earhart there was this kind
of reciprocity that wasn't false or forced.
Speaker 3 (10:45):
This friendship carried into the Roosevelt transition from the New
York Governor's mansion to the White House. Initially, Eleanor was
reluctant about taking on the role of First Lady, As
she later reflected, quote, I knew what traditionally should lie
before me, and I cannot say that I was pleased
(11:06):
at the prospect. The turmoil in my heart and mind
was rather great.
Speaker 7 (11:11):
I think she was very concerned that it might clip
her wings to use a nice aviation metaphor, and that
she wouldn't be able to beat the free person that
she was, and she might get trapped in this role
a first lady. Well, we know that didn't happen, and
she in fact expanded the role dramatically.
Speaker 10 (11:36):
March nineteen thirty three, Eleanor Roosevelt is swept up in
the whirlwind of activity surrounding the first days of Franklin
Roosevelt's administration. From the very beginning, Missus Roosevelt makes it
clear that she intends to be more than a mere
ornament on the White House reception line. She is set
on a tour of the country by Fdr. He wants
(11:58):
her to serve as his eyes and legs. She seems
to be perpetually on the moon, writes a weary reporter
traveling with her. Please make Eleanor tye just for one day.
Speaker 3 (12:11):
The joy ride with Amelia happened in April, less than
two months after Eleanor's arrival at the White House. It
was another way of saying, I'm not your traditional first lady,
I'm making my own way. But the flight had a
very literal message as well.
Speaker 7 (12:29):
Aviation was a very young industry in nineteen thirty three,
especially commercial aviation, and so the idea that somebody other
than just a World War One pilot or a stunt pilot,
that there could be regularly scheduled airlines that you could
fly from Washington to New York. These things are all
(12:53):
very new at the time, and to many people they
seemed kind of, well, it's just such a weird idea.
Speaker 3 (13:00):
Both Amelia and Eleanor had a passion for aviation. They
really believed flying was the future. Eleanor got a student
pilot license at one point, although FDR mixed the idea
before it went very far, and in a women's magazine column,
Amelia even suggested all mothers should become pilots so that
(13:25):
they'd be good parents and help their kids when they're
flying around all the time, because obviously, in the future
that's how we'd be getting around day to day. So
it was important to them to get other women involved
in this world as pilots and as passengers. Eleanor made
(13:46):
sure to point out how at ease she was on
the night flight with Amelia. She was quoted saying she
felt just as safe with a woman in the cockpit
as she would have with a man, and that was
a big deal.
Speaker 7 (14:00):
There's a sense of them both being ambassadors for aviation,
and they're also ambassaters for opening opportunities for women, and
so here is this joy ride that combines all of
those things. And so it's this kind of combination of
(14:20):
seems very spontaneous, but you get a sense that everyone
is very aware of the larger symbolism of it.
Speaker 3 (14:29):
Remember it wasn't too long before this that women didn't
have the constitutional right to vote. They didn't have many
formalized rights. In the thirties, there were major concerns about
women in aviation, that they were too scatterbrained to use
the technology, too emotional to handle possible crises. Male pilots
(14:50):
worried about training women because of the potential backlash should
a member of the fairer sex die in an accident.
Amelia and Eleanor had a message to share with the country,
and they put on quite the show to do it.
They made sure the press was there to jot down
their quotes and snap photographs. These women were no strangers
(15:13):
to pr and if a headline grabbing opportunity didn't arise
on its own, they could always create the perfect scenario themselves.
(15:33):
In the years surrounding the night Flight, Amelia and Eleanor
weren't just famous, they were a brand new kind of celebrity.
Speaker 9 (15:42):
So you had actresses in the news here in the
nineteen thirties. And then the other way in which women
established themselves in the news was in the social realm.
That's why I went into the women's and society pages.
But you just didn't see many women of activity and
accomplishment in the news.
Speaker 4 (16:03):
This is Maureen Beasley.
Speaker 9 (16:05):
I'm a professor Emerita of the Meryll College of Journalism
at the University of Maryland at College Park. For years,
I've been interested in the careers of women journalists, starting
way back when.
Speaker 3 (16:21):
She's studied the ways Eleanor in particular got attention from
the press.
Speaker 9 (16:27):
And Eleanor Roosevelt definitely was a media celebrity. She recognized
the importance of the media in all of its forms.
Eleanor set up these press conferences for women reporters only
because she wanted to give them news that men couldn't get.
Speaker 3 (16:44):
Eleanor had her first press conference just two days after
entering the White House. That was before FDR had his.
Speaker 4 (16:51):
First press conference as president.
Speaker 9 (16:54):
She didn't know exactly how to handle herself at first.
It is said that she walked around and with a
box of candied fruit and started acting like a hostess.
Speaker 3 (17:07):
As awkward as that first press conference may have been,
it didn't take her long to find her footing. Eleanor
had a strong sense for what the country cared about.
She held many causes near and dear to her heart,
and she realized these were the kind of stories she
could share with women journalists. Within a few weeks, she
(17:31):
was ready to show them and the public what she
was made of. She invited Amelia to dinner at the
White House.
Speaker 9 (17:39):
Was a way of courting the public through taking part
in an event that did make news. Here you had
two of the most notable women of the era, and
she took along some of her favorite reporters on this
flight over Washington. You have to have a sense of
draw if you're going to be in the public eye.
Speaker 3 (17:59):
The night flight shows us how this virtuous press cycle worked.
Women journalists got to come along. They got the byline
in the papers the next day, and of course Eleanor
got the headlines First Lady in night Flight, First Lady
goes on night air trip. First Lady of Land flies
(18:20):
with first Lady of the Air. We may take for
granted today that the first Lady is a public figure
with a platform and press coverage, but that wasn't really
the case before Eleanor.
Speaker 9 (18:33):
Earlier first ladies didn't think it was too feminine to
court publicity. Certainly, Eleanor's predecessor, lou Henry Hoover, Allo, extremely
educated and accomplished woman, didn't want much press attention, even
to the point that when she had a Christmas party
(18:54):
at the White House for Girl Scouts, she wouldn't allow
the press in, if you can imagine such a thing.
So Eleanor came in, and she was quite willing to
focus attention on herself. You have a first Lady for
the first time is seeking to be in the news.
Speaker 3 (19:11):
The night flight wasn't the last of her exploits to
captivate the press. There was the time she was driven
two miles into a coal mine showing her support for
the workers hit hard during the depression. The papers captured how,
wearing a quote borrowed gray overcoat and a miner's cap,
Eleanor emerged from the mine to a cheering crowd twenty
(19:35):
five hundred strong, and her month long journey to the
South Pacific during World War Two certainly didn't escape the
news cycle either. Eleanor's connection to the press ran deep.
In fact, Eleanor did so much press she actually thought
of herself as part of the press corps.
Speaker 9 (19:58):
What people don't seem to realize about her is that
she actually considered herself a journalist on her income tax returns.
Speaker 3 (20:06):
And in a way, hey, that makes sense because in
addition to providing quotes and posing for photo ops, she
started covering the adventures she took herself. During her time
in the White House, Eleanor made nearly the same number
of radio appearances as her husband, the President. She hosted
her own programs. She wrote a number of books and
(20:29):
hundreds of articles, including a daily column. For many years,
it was called My Day, and it was syndicated in
ninety newspapers. It had millions of readers, and Amelia Earhart
picked up a thing or two from Eleanor's success.
Speaker 7 (20:48):
She quickly learns to do what Eleanor Roosevelt I think
had already learned to do, which is to use her
celebrity to promote the causes that she cares about.
Speaker 3 (20:58):
Historian Susan Ware again, you.
Speaker 7 (21:01):
Really have to keep the name out there if you're
going to maintain your celebrity. It is this kind of
nitty gritty of the lecture circuit and the grinding out
the articles and the appearing on newsreels and all these things.
Speaker 3 (21:17):
Like Eleanor, Amelia did her own share of stunts to
garner attention and intrigue. It wasn't just her record breaking
flights either. There was the time she tried out deep
sea diving or demonstrated a new device to help pilots
with parachute jump training. To sustain her flying and her advocacy,
(21:37):
she had to sustain her fame. In her own words,
no pay, no fly, and no work no play.
Speaker 7 (21:46):
Flying was expensive and planes just don't pay for themselves,
and so she really had to work at bringing in
an income.
Speaker 3 (21:57):
The press coverage that those women and that night flight
got it had financial benefits. Exclusive articles after Amelia's flights
could pay big bucks. The New York Times paid twenty
thousand dollars in nineteen twenty eight for a story of
the friendship flight. The lecture circuits also paid, and all
(22:18):
the attention led to brand deals for Amelia with a
car company, Kodak film, and engine company. She also designed
and modeled her own line of clothing and luggage. Her
designs were advertised in the pages of Vogue and featured
in a Macy's window display decked out with a model
(22:39):
of her pilot's cabin. This was the precursor to the
celebrity brands we all know today, whether it's Kim Kardashian's
skims or fenty Beauty by Rihanna.
Speaker 9 (22:52):
The flight was important in a commercial way to both
of these women. Eleanor wasn't raising money for a flight
around the world, but Eleanor wanted to use her time
in the White House to promote the interests of the
democratic and certainly to try to improve of a lot
of people who were in such dire straits during the depression.
Speaker 3 (23:13):
Eleanor was proud to donate to charity with money that
she made herself through lecture circuits, for example, or her
own radio program, specifically from the show's sponsors.
Speaker 9 (23:26):
Blander gave these sponsor broadcasts, and she got away with it,
shall we say, in the public eye, by saying that
she was giving the money that she made to charity.
Speaker 3 (23:37):
Eleanor could make as much as three thousand dollars for
just one episode. When you account for inflation, that's more
than fifty thousand dollars today. The average American worker was
not earning that much in an entire year.
Speaker 4 (23:53):
And now I believe we'll pause to listen to a
few words from mister Graua.
Speaker 8 (23:58):
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Speaker 3 (24:21):
Eleanor's broadcasts had all kinds of sponsors, cold creams, coffee, typewriters, mattresses,
way before all your favorite podcasts had ad breaks for
Casper Mattress. Critics, though, felt like she was commercializing her
role in the White House.
Speaker 9 (24:39):
If you could imagine today, I think we would be
somewhat appalled if we had doctor Biden on a television program,
say that's sponsored by Toyota. People would say, well, you know,
this is totally inappropriate.
Speaker 3 (24:53):
But Eleanor was playing the long game. Doing pr at
this level, achieving fame at this level requires some serious strategizing.
The right image for these women had to be crafted,
and in all honesty, their husbands were a huge help
with that. Eleanor leveraged her status as the President's wife,
(25:15):
and Amelia had GP Putnam.
Speaker 7 (25:19):
I will say that having GP Putnam made an enormous
difference to Amelia Earhart's career.
Speaker 3 (25:27):
GP was Amelia's manager turned husband. He was always behind
the scenes, pulling levers, forging partnerships, planning speaker events, and
enforcing deadlines. He took charge of keeping her in the spotlight,
and when she was he advised her to smile for
the cameras with closed lips though to hide the gaps
(25:48):
in her teeth. Oh, and no hats. He found her hat,
to be quote, a public menace.
Speaker 7 (25:55):
She was in some ways just the perfect heroine. She
was incredibly modern looking and attractive, She had short, tussled hair.
She would fly wearing slacks and a plaid shirt and
with a silk scarf nodded around her neck. And so
when she landed, she would come out and she would smile,
(26:19):
her kind of shy smile, and she's just made for
the newsreels.
Speaker 3 (26:24):
Amelia shot into the spotlight like no female pilot had before.
Her media presence in this arena was unrivaled. Her husband's
work was essential to that, but privilege was at play
here too.
Speaker 7 (26:38):
One thing we really need to remember is that Amelia
Earhart was not the only female aviator in the time.
There were quite a lot, not huge numbers, not as
many as men, But there were other independent, spunky women pilots,
you know, the kind of women who just won't take
(26:58):
no for an answer, who were setting records and doing
daring flights and trying to start airlines and all kinds
of things. They didn't have a full time publicist the
way she did with her husband.
Speaker 3 (27:13):
The fact that Amelia was a white woman played a
big part in her acclaim. There were talented pilots of color,
like Bessie Coleman, who passed away a couple years before
Amelia's Atlantic crossing. She's largely forgotten now, but she certainly
deserves to be remembered as an American icon, the first
(27:33):
black pilot man or woman to acquire an international pilot license.
Yet it was Amelia who the world was able to
accept as the all American girl. Eleanor also figured out
how to present herself in the public eye. She could
bend the rules, she could travel and speak out as
(27:55):
long as she painted herself just the right way as
the good first lady, the patriotic wife.
Speaker 9 (28:03):
Because of Franklin's incapacity during polio, Paulis was willing to
accept the fact, Oh, this is a wife helping her husband,
so it's fine that she wants to take inspection trips
around the country and see what's going on and then
report to him. She was a beloved figure, but she
(28:24):
was always seen as a good woman who's helping her husband.
Speaker 3 (28:28):
In the nineteen thirties, the world just wasn't ready for
women to abandon traditional values.
Speaker 9 (28:35):
No, I do not think that Eleanor could have projected
herself as she did had she not couched what she
said very carefully in the vein of a traditional wife
and mother. So I think that was necessary politically for
her ideas to be accepted.
Speaker 3 (28:52):
In addition to aviation, Eleanor and Amelia both wanted women
to be a part of the workforce and to be paid.
But just because they had big ideas didn't mean they
cast themselves as revolutionaries.
Speaker 9 (29:07):
She didn't make raging political speeches, and certainly she didn't
come out with flaming statements that women should be themselves
and they should forget about the family and that sort
of thing. She didn't.
Speaker 7 (29:19):
There had been the women's suffrage movement, which culminated in
nineteen twenty with the passage of the nineteenth Amendment, and
then in the nineteen sixties and seventies there's the resurgence
of what's called second wave feminism. In these intervening years,
there isn't a mass movement, but that doesn't mean that
(29:39):
feminism dies or goes away. You just have to look
for it in different places.
Speaker 3 (29:45):
It's there, but it's not loud and proud. If Amelia
and Eleanor took that approach in the thirties, they wouldn't
have made the same impact.
Speaker 7 (29:55):
I have no problem calling both Eleanor Roosevelt and Amelia
Earhart feminists. I often use a definition that Eleanor Roosevelt
put forth in nineteen thirty five that talks about women
having equal opportunities with men.
Speaker 3 (30:15):
The Night Flight encapsulates this all perfectly. They put on
a show of femininity and glamor. They dressed up in
their gloves and their gowns. That was the backdrop for
their message about women's ability. It was political, but it
was still subtle. It was supposed to feel harmless, not
(30:35):
like they were crashing through the glass ceiling. Their ability
to walk that tightrope, to push the envelope but not
rock the boat. The only way to pull that off
was masterful pr and the night Flight well, it may
have created a model that celebrities are still using today.
Speaker 11 (31:11):
Two girlfriends decide it would be fun to take a
road trip across America. They start out in the West
Coast and drive all the way across the country, making
pit stops along.
Speaker 2 (31:23):
The way and really seeing what is not just America,
but Americana.
Speaker 11 (31:29):
These drive by towns that most people wouldn't necessarily stop in,
and they take us on a journey with them that
is just unforgettable.
Speaker 2 (31:39):
They crash a wedding.
Speaker 11 (31:43):
They play bingo Bingo was all the rage, and they
play bingo.
Speaker 2 (31:47):
They sleep in a teepeek. They stop in a hotel that.
Speaker 11 (31:51):
Looks like almost a caricature of a teepeek.
Speaker 3 (31:56):
That's Kelly Carter Jackson, a professor at Wellesley College, and
this is Leah Wright Ragure, a historian from Johns Hopkins.
Speaker 12 (32:06):
They had to department store where they try on with
the help of like local shoppers. They try on beautiful
gowns and dresses. They end up buying several things.
Speaker 3 (32:16):
This might sound like another story about Amelia and Eleanor,
but it's not.
Speaker 12 (32:22):
Of course, we are talking about Oprah Winfrey and her
Bessie Gail Kings, two of the most famous black women
in America.
Speaker 2 (32:31):
Let alone you know like the world.
Speaker 3 (32:34):
Kelly and Leah are both academics and the co hosts
of You Get a Podcast, The Unauthorized Study of the
Queen of Talk.
Speaker 11 (32:44):
As a kid, I was obsessed with Oprah. I watched
Oprah all the time. My family members used to tease
me because I watched the show so much.
Speaker 12 (32:53):
Oprah Winfrey is ubiquitous.
Speaker 2 (32:55):
As a child.
Speaker 12 (32:56):
Growing up in the eighties and the nineties, Oprah Winfrey
was the culture she was everywhere, So it wasn't that
she was just a part of the culture.
Speaker 2 (33:05):
She was actually defined.
Speaker 12 (33:07):
It was can't miss TV.
Speaker 3 (33:09):
So why are we talking about Oprah and Gail. Bear
with me for a minute here. This cross country road trip,
it actually has a lot in common with the night flight,
even though these things happened seventy years apart. The road
trip was in two thousand and six. It aired as
an episode of The Oprah Winfrey Show.
Speaker 11 (33:31):
And along the way they deep in their relationship, they
find out more about themselves, they find out the things
that annoy themselves about each other. You get to see
the different personalities. You get to see how like Gail
loves to sing along to the music in Oprah whether
right along in silence, like she doesn't like listening to music.
Speaker 12 (33:52):
So we're not watching I mean, we are watching for
the Shenanigans, but we're also watching for the beautiful friendship
between Gail and Oprah.
Speaker 3 (34:00):
There's this element of friendship and joy and what seems
like spontaneity, even though it's a big play and trip
with lots of cameras. All of this makes it feel
like a modern version of Amelia and Eleanor and Like
the night Flight, the stunt had some deeper symbolism.
Speaker 11 (34:19):
What's more American than being black and pulled over by
the police.
Speaker 3 (34:23):
A key moment in the trip happened when Oprah and
Gail and their caravan of camera people and producers were
driving in Kentucky When one car got stopped by the police.
The whole group pulled over to wait, which was something
the officer wasn't expecting.
Speaker 11 (34:40):
The highway patrolman is like, get off my highway, you know,
like he's like yelling at them and confused that he's
pulled over one car.
Speaker 2 (34:48):
Now all these other cars are stopping.
Speaker 6 (34:50):
Get all we're with the Oprah Show doing a shoot.
Speaker 11 (34:54):
And when Oprah gets out the car and pulls that
sort of oprahcart like hello, I'm Oprah Romfree, he realizes like,
oh shit.
Speaker 1 (35:04):
This is Oprah Winterring.
Speaker 6 (35:05):
We're doing a TV show.
Speaker 2 (35:08):
You like, I have not just pulled over anyone I've
got Oprah were free and thirty five cares. This is
not what happens every day.
Speaker 3 (35:17):
Though at that point it becomes a big joke. Oprah
and Gail even start teasing the officer, I know.
Speaker 2 (35:25):
You, what what are you saying?
Speaker 12 (35:27):
My way and so we're looking at that moment and
being like, oh, she's trying to invert this idea of
like what it means to be black and be pulled
over in the middle of nowhere on a road like
this is this is a black person's worst nightmare, right
to be pulled over in the middle of rural southern
America and have a police officer essentially question like, what
(35:51):
are you doing? You don't know, like you could be
breathing wrong. And here Oprah and Gail being like, actually,
the power dynamic is inverted because I'm a black billionaire haha.
Speaker 2 (36:00):
Jokes on you and the cameras rolling.
Speaker 3 (36:04):
As much as they make the situation seem hair free,
the potential danger of their position doesn't go totally unremarked upon.
After Gail tells the officer they're doing a TV shoot,
the episode cuts to Gail in a studio interview.
Speaker 6 (36:21):
Shoot was wrong word to use, Gail to.
Speaker 4 (36:25):
Queue the laugh.
Speaker 12 (36:26):
Track, but it also feels like a really safe way
to introduce white audiences to like black people's reality. Right.
It's not a George Floyd moment, which is so shocking
as to perhaps turn people off. Right to see a
man murdered by the police on camera, right in excruciating ways.
Speaker 2 (36:51):
No, this is wow.
Speaker 12 (36:54):
Even Oprah Winfrey gets pulled over, right.
Speaker 2 (36:57):
But but it's contained, it's safe.
Speaker 12 (37:01):
Right, So it feels like almost like it is a
safe space for white people to understand what it means
to be a black woman driving in mobility around the country.
Speaker 3 (37:16):
Oprah has smashed through the glass ceiling and so many
other barriers. But Oprah didn't build her empire by being
an activist. She's a brilliant marketer, a brilliant entertainer. It's
the stunt the show they put on that makes this memorable.
Oprah and Gail are engaging with political and social issues
(37:38):
on a highly rated TV show, not from a political podium.
Speaker 12 (37:43):
She is centering black women's joy on a platform, a
huge platform, one of the biggest in the United States,
and saying, look, black women being joyful.
Speaker 2 (37:52):
Now what people tell us all the time?
Speaker 12 (37:55):
What episode do you remember? I remember the Girls Trip.
It's not some huge active resistance. And I think part
of the attitude that Oprah and Gail have, which is
actually interesting in this day and age where it feels
like you have to do in your face pronouncements about race, Oprah.
Speaker 2 (38:09):
Are like, like, we're black women. That's it. Like, there
you go.
Speaker 12 (38:14):
But part of what we are doing is a project.
Speaker 11 (38:17):
And in normalizing, yes, that's the board I was gonna say, normalizing.
Speaker 12 (38:21):
Right, normalizing Black women joy and existing.
Speaker 11 (38:26):
Their very existence, their very presence is radical. And so
it's the same thing with Eleanor and with Amelia. It's
like a woman flying a plane. You don't have to speak,
it speaks volumes.
Speaker 3 (38:40):
The night flight was a PR stunt. Nobody would know
about the joy Ride if it wasn't for the women's
incredible relationship with the press. But it also wasn't fake
or disingenuous. These women genuinely supported the cause and they
genuinely seemed to enjoy themselves in the cockpit. Decades before
(39:01):
talk shows and reality TV and social media, Eleanor Roosevelt
and Amelia Airhart gave us a model for sending a message.
Speaker 12 (39:11):
I love this those high powered baddies right, nineteen thirty baddies.
Nineteen thirties was not a hot time for women.
Speaker 2 (39:19):
No, it really wasn't.
Speaker 12 (39:21):
And just at the vote, and so for her and
Amelia Earhart to kind of come out and be like
America's most wanted, like like, let's go in a lot
of ways. They're like paving the way for a kind
of Gale Oprah type thing. And I don't think that's
an exaggeration. Like I could see people be like, oh,
that's a stretch. That's a stretch, but it's not right.
It's like the first Lady of the United States and
(39:43):
the most celebrated and famous woman of the era, right,
Amelia Earhart basically saying no, no, no, Like we're shunning
the conventions and the rules of the era and we're
going to be part of my French These bad bitches
who go around and like make decisions and influence politics
and have our own fashion line and we're raking in dough.
Speaker 11 (40:03):
These are women that could really push boundaries, but they
didn't have to be Outlandis.
Speaker 10 (40:09):
To do it.
Speaker 12 (40:09):
She doesn't have to say anything else.
Speaker 2 (40:12):
Yeah, same with Amelia flying. She doesn't have to do
anything else. All she has to do is fly the
plane and land it. And that's boom enough said.
Speaker 5 (40:21):
Obviously, no surprise. These women were incredibly famous and influential.
Everybody knows that their posters are in every elementary school.
But their fame was very modern and Eleanor is basically
a podcast host. Amelia's doing brand deal Sweetheart soap. Probably Yes,
I really enjoyed getting that insider take.
Speaker 6 (40:41):
I had never heard the story or heard of it before.
Speaker 1 (40:43):
This is all new to me, and I absolutely loved
it because the whole image of Amelia Earhart and Eleanor
Roosevelt and glamorous evening gowns, white gloves is so against
what I think of them, and yet it's so perfectly
fit them.
Speaker 6 (40:53):
I was like, wow, look at that.
Speaker 1 (40:55):
The range of people, and also obviously them just taking
to the night sky is such an iconic image.
Speaker 4 (40:59):
I felt the same way.
Speaker 3 (41:00):
I had actually never heard this story before this episode.
It felt like a Marvel mashup that I just did
no happened?
Speaker 4 (41:08):
Oh my god. Of course those women had met, yes exactly.
Speaker 1 (41:11):
I kind of knew they were friends, but I didn't
know what good friends they were and how they helped
each other and bolstered each other. And I loved that
Eleanor has her own media persuasion campaign. That's like pr stunt,
which goes along with FDR's fireside chests. They're both like
shaping the nation through media.
Speaker 6 (41:25):
I loved that.
Speaker 4 (41:25):
Okay, who are we going to cast? We have two
strong female characters here.
Speaker 1 (41:29):
Okay, so Eleanor Roosevelt. I went with a young Olivia Coleman.
I thought she could nail it.
Speaker 2 (41:34):
Oh yeah, you like that.
Speaker 1 (41:36):
Right, And then Familia Earhart Julia Garner, the curly headed
blonde from Ozark.
Speaker 6 (41:41):
Oh she's great if you were familiar with Ozark, yes, yeah, right,
and then I thought she'd be good. And if not her,
then a young Geena Davis. And then for G. P.
Putnam the husband. I thought I wanted a decent guy.
So I don't know why. John c Riley just to
me screams decent.
Speaker 1 (41:55):
I just expect him, like, oh yeah, he looks like
you could have money and be like, I love my wife, So.
Speaker 5 (41:59):
I would see that film.
Speaker 4 (42:00):
That's great casting. I love Olivia Coleman.
Speaker 3 (42:03):
I feel like, if anyone's listening, let's just get her
in any movie where she gets to first lady.
Speaker 6 (42:07):
Yeah right. Also, I forgot FDR.
Speaker 1 (42:10):
I don't know why, but I thought Sam Rockwell as
Horny FDR that would be really funny.
Speaker 6 (42:16):
So there you go.
Speaker 4 (42:17):
Who's your very special character?
Speaker 6 (42:19):
Hmmm, Jason, you got one.
Speaker 5 (42:20):
I think Eleanor Roosevelt plays nine different characters in this
but especially her as the podcaster. Getting three thousand dollars
an episode or the equivalent of about fifty thousand today.
That's the dream. I think we should hold that up
and try to return to that standard.
Speaker 4 (42:36):
She's our podcast inspiration.
Speaker 3 (42:38):
I'm also going to say, the terrible White House chef,
kudos to you for doing a bad job.
Speaker 6 (42:43):
Oh yes, brilliant, great call.
Speaker 1 (42:47):
I mean, I love her. She was my first hero,
so Amelia Earhart. I just got out of respect for her.
She's my very special character because I love her.
Speaker 5 (42:57):
Very Special Episodes is made by some very special people.
The show is hosted by Danish Schwartz, Sarah Burnett, and
Jason English. Today's episode was written by Dylan Hoyer. Our
producer is Josh Fisher. Our story editor is Marisa Brown.
Editing and sound design by Chris Childs, Mixing and mastering
(43:21):
by Beheid Fraser. Original music by Elise McCoy, Research in
fact checking by Dylan Hoyer and Austin Thompson. Show logo
by Lucy Quintinia. Our executive producer is Jason English. If
you'd like to email the show, you can reach us
at Very Special Episodes at gmail dot com. Very Special
(43:44):
Episodes is a production of iHeart Podcasts.
Originals.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
This is an iHeart original.
Speaker 3 (00:17):
The food was notoriously bad in FDR's White House. After all,
it was the Great Depression when his presidency began, and
one of First Lady Eleanor Roosevelt's tasks was to economize
the kitchen. Suddenly White House china was being used to
serve gelatin salads. Prune pudding was another common menu item.
(00:44):
Eleanor even encouraged the housekeeper to use milk or No,
a lab made powder, aptly named for its ingredients of
dried skim, milk and corn meal. Visitors who had joined
the Roosevelts for a meal sometimes shared a word to
the whys eat before you arrive. Ernest Hemingway even sent
(01:06):
ale after he dined in the White House, detailing the
worst meal of his life. He wrote, we had a
rainwater soup, followed by rubber squab, a nice wilted salad,
and a cake some admirer had sent in an enthusiastic
but unskilled admirer. Perhaps while digesting post meal, it must
(01:30):
have clicked for Hemingway. Why his companion that evening had
scarfed down a few sandwiches on the way over, So
maybe it was yet another dreary menu that had diners
itching to get away from the table. On April twentieth,
nineteen thirty three, the guests that evening included the First
(01:51):
Lady's brother and a couple big shots in the aviation industry.
An airline president as well as these soon to be
leader of government work on aeronautics. Fdr himself was out
of town. But there was one more influential figure sitting
at the table subjected to rubbery meat and whatever a
(02:12):
combination salad is. It was Amelia Earhart. She was as
big a celebrity as any in nineteen thirty three, admired
most for her daring solo flight across the Atlantic Ocean
the year before. So maybe it was the thrill of
sitting next to a world record breaker that made the
(02:33):
others eager to abandon their plates for something more audacious.
Whatever the reason, Amelia delivered on giving them the ultimate
excuse to leave the table. She was going to take
them all on a joy ride. Amelia, Eleanor and the
rest of the party drove to the local airport. They
climbed aboard an Eastern Air Transport twin engine Curtis Condor.
(02:59):
It looked how you might imagine an old timey plane
looks with two wings stacked on top of each other,
only big enough to fit a dozen or so people.
These passengers were part of an elite group in the
early thirties. Practically no Americans had ever even set foot
in a plane. Now in the air and looking down
(03:22):
they could see the Washington Monument and the White House
lit up against the dark sky. It was absolutely magical.
They flew to Baltimore and back. Amelia steered the plane.
Eleanor was in the control cabin with her, where she
said she felt quote on top of the world with
an unobstructed view. Another newspaper quoted Missus Roosevelt as saying,
(03:47):
it does mark an epoch, doesn't it when a girl
in an evening dress and slippers can pilot a plane
at night? The two women looked picture perfect, still in
their dinner party attire. They were wearing long gowns and
evening wraps. Eleanor was in a hat. Amelia had white
glas Son. This was the pinnacle of glamor and excitement,
(04:12):
a spectacle heightened by the depression the country was facing.
It wasn't every day that the first lady and the
first Lady of the Air just hopped.
Speaker 4 (04:21):
In an airplane.
Speaker 3 (04:23):
This was an adventure for the Ages. The event was
first documented in the papers and newsreels, and now it's
written into books and strewn across the Internet. The story
is often recounted as an impulsive, spur of the moment
decision to sneak away from dinner and take a wild ride.
(04:45):
But today's episode isn't about being caught up in the moment.
It's actually about being calculated, because Eleanor and Amelia's flight
of fancy may have just been a pr stunt. Welcome
to Very Special Episodes and iHeart original podcas. I'm your host,
(05:08):
Danish Schwartz and this is the joy Ride.
Speaker 5 (05:16):
Welcome back to very Special Episodes. I'm Jason English, very
lucky as always to be here with Danish Schwartz and
Zarn Burnett.
Speaker 6 (05:23):
Hey what's up guys? Hey, Hey, what of Dana? What
of Jason?
Speaker 3 (05:27):
This one, I have to say, is very very special
for me because in third grade, I don't want to brag,
but I did play Eleanor Roosevelt in our school's interactive
wax museum. Hell yeah, so I feel a particular kinship
to this episode.
Speaker 5 (05:42):
So we've got casting already. We don't have to do
that later.
Speaker 6 (05:47):
You could play all the parts.
Speaker 4 (05:49):
I'll reprise my role.
Speaker 3 (05:52):
This so called night flight that Eleanor and Amelia took,
it was so swinky, so spirited. From the outside looking in,
it really seemed to be.
Speaker 7 (06:02):
A joy ride, a skylark, a wonderful adventure.
Speaker 3 (06:07):
Your Susan Ware studies twentieth century US history and women's biography.
She knows a lot about Eleanor Roosevelt and Amelia Earhart.
Speaker 7 (06:17):
They are kind of hard to miss in twentieth century
American history.
Speaker 3 (06:22):
They knew it too, and standing by the plane's door
on that nineteen thirty three spring evening, Eleanor and Amelia
made it clear to the press that they were embarking
on something special.
Speaker 4 (06:35):
Missus Rotha, won't you go for a ride tonight over Washington.
Speaker 8 (06:39):
It's really lovely from.
Speaker 4 (06:40):
The air at night. I'd be very glad to go
over the ride overwatching I like going at night and
seeing the night very much.
Speaker 3 (06:48):
In this clip, they're already on the tarmac ready to go,
but they're talking as if their decision to take the
flight is being made right there right then a little
feigned surprise, never heard anyone right.
Speaker 7 (07:01):
But for the record, it can't have been totally spontaneous
because she don't leave the White House and go to
an airport and commandeer a plane.
Speaker 3 (07:12):
Susan's right, Amelia had arranged a plane before they left.
Speaker 4 (07:16):
The White House.
Speaker 3 (07:17):
Press was notified and gathered to see them take off.
There were even journalists on board. And if we're getting
technical about things, Amelia was in control of the plane
for part of the flight, but not the whole time.
A male pilot took off and landed the plane, probably
for legal reasons. That didn't take away from the triumph
(07:41):
of this event, but it did mean that it wasn't
low key. But really, almost nothing these women did was
low key. It really can't be overstated how famous they were.
Speaker 7 (07:54):
Well, I think this is the first time I've ever
been asked to compare Amelia Earhart to Taylor Swift. But
there is a way in which both of these women
are figures that everybody knows about, and I think it's
at that level, the kind of Oprah Winfrey, Taylor Swift,
it's up there in the stratosphere.
Speaker 3 (08:16):
In nineteen twenty eight, Amelia was the first woman to
cross the Atlantic in a plane called Friendship. The flight
turned her into an overnight celebrity. After it, she needed
four secretaries to deal with all the fan mail she received.
But Amelia wasn't actually the pilot on the Friendship. She
(08:37):
was just a passenger, which she compared to feeling like
a quote sack of potatoes. So a few years later,
in nineteen thirty two, she made the trip on her own.
Speaker 6 (08:51):
Four years ago, I was here after the Friendship.
Speaker 5 (08:54):
This time I tried to justify that flight by going alone.
Speaker 3 (08:58):
This truck made her the second person ever and the
first woman, to fly across the Atlantic solo. It took
nearly fifteen hours, just her and a single engine.
Speaker 7 (09:11):
Not even two engines, in case one goes out. We
all know that she disappeared on her last flight, trying
to do around the world flight in nineteen thirty seven,
and so in many ways that's people's image of Amelia Earhart.
But I think if that hadn't happened, what we would
remember her for is this nineteen thirty two flight.
Speaker 3 (09:31):
It's true, after this solo flight, the public became enamored
by her. People wanted to know everything, even the mundane
details of the journeys she took.
Speaker 8 (09:41):
How did you carry on the trip? You mean to eat, eat,
and drink.
Speaker 4 (09:46):
Well. I carried some water, of course, because.
Speaker 9 (09:49):
My cockpit is very warm.
Speaker 7 (09:51):
And I carried a sandwich in case I didn't eat it,
though I carried some hot chocolate, and the all reliable commatitudes.
Speaker 5 (10:01):
What kind of a sandwich was it?
Speaker 3 (10:07):
Amelia's fame was reaching new heights, and the Roosevelts were
ascending to new levels of power too. As the world
opened up before these women, they eventually crossed paths and
they really hit it off. They became friends.
Speaker 7 (10:24):
They were like kindred spirits, and they maintained that really
for the rest of the thirties. While Amelia Earhart was
still alive, she was always connecting with Eleanor Roosevelt. Eleanor
Roosevelt would also mention Amelia Earhart there was this kind
of reciprocity that wasn't false or forced.
Speaker 3 (10:45):
This friendship carried into the Roosevelt transition from the New
York Governor's mansion to the White House. Initially, Eleanor was
reluctant about taking on the role of First Lady, As
she later reflected, quote, I knew what traditionally should lie
before me, and I cannot say that I was pleased
(11:06):
at the prospect. The turmoil in my heart and mind
was rather great.
Speaker 7 (11:11):
I think she was very concerned that it might clip
her wings to use a nice aviation metaphor, and that
she wouldn't be able to beat the free person that
she was, and she might get trapped in this role
a first lady. Well, we know that didn't happen, and
she in fact expanded the role dramatically.
Speaker 10 (11:36):
March nineteen thirty three, Eleanor Roosevelt is swept up in
the whirlwind of activity surrounding the first days of Franklin
Roosevelt's administration. From the very beginning, Missus Roosevelt makes it
clear that she intends to be more than a mere
ornament on the White House reception line. She is set
on a tour of the country by Fdr. He wants
(11:58):
her to serve as his eyes and legs. She seems
to be perpetually on the moon, writes a weary reporter
traveling with her. Please make Eleanor tye just for one day.
Speaker 3 (12:11):
The joy ride with Amelia happened in April, less than
two months after Eleanor's arrival at the White House. It
was another way of saying, I'm not your traditional first lady,
I'm making my own way. But the flight had a
very literal message as well.
Speaker 7 (12:29):
Aviation was a very young industry in nineteen thirty three,
especially commercial aviation, and so the idea that somebody other
than just a World War One pilot or a stunt pilot,
that there could be regularly scheduled airlines that you could
fly from Washington to New York. These things are all
(12:53):
very new at the time, and to many people they
seemed kind of, well, it's just such a weird idea.
Speaker 3 (13:00):
Both Amelia and Eleanor had a passion for aviation. They
really believed flying was the future. Eleanor got a student
pilot license at one point, although FDR mixed the idea
before it went very far, and in a women's magazine column,
Amelia even suggested all mothers should become pilots so that
(13:25):
they'd be good parents and help their kids when they're
flying around all the time, because obviously, in the future
that's how we'd be getting around day to day. So
it was important to them to get other women involved
in this world as pilots and as passengers. Eleanor made
(13:46):
sure to point out how at ease she was on
the night flight with Amelia. She was quoted saying she
felt just as safe with a woman in the cockpit
as she would have with a man, and that was
a big deal.
Speaker 7 (14:00):
There's a sense of them both being ambassadors for aviation,
and they're also ambassaters for opening opportunities for women, and
so here is this joy ride that combines all of
those things. And so it's this kind of combination of
(14:20):
seems very spontaneous, but you get a sense that everyone
is very aware of the larger symbolism of it.
Speaker 3 (14:29):
Remember it wasn't too long before this that women didn't
have the constitutional right to vote. They didn't have many
formalized rights. In the thirties, there were major concerns about
women in aviation, that they were too scatterbrained to use
the technology, too emotional to handle possible crises. Male pilots
(14:50):
worried about training women because of the potential backlash should
a member of the fairer sex die in an accident.
Amelia and Eleanor had a message to share with the country,
and they put on quite the show to do it.
They made sure the press was there to jot down
their quotes and snap photographs. These women were no strangers
(15:13):
to pr and if a headline grabbing opportunity didn't arise
on its own, they could always create the perfect scenario themselves.
(15:33):
In the years surrounding the night Flight, Amelia and Eleanor
weren't just famous, they were a brand new kind of celebrity.
Speaker 9 (15:42):
So you had actresses in the news here in the
nineteen thirties. And then the other way in which women
established themselves in the news was in the social realm.
That's why I went into the women's and society pages.
But you just didn't see many women of activity and
accomplishment in the news.
Speaker 4 (16:03):
This is Maureen Beasley.
Speaker 9 (16:05):
I'm a professor Emerita of the Meryll College of Journalism
at the University of Maryland at College Park. For years,
I've been interested in the careers of women journalists, starting
way back when.
Speaker 3 (16:21):
She's studied the ways Eleanor in particular got attention from
the press.
Speaker 9 (16:27):
And Eleanor Roosevelt definitely was a media celebrity. She recognized
the importance of the media in all of its forms.
Eleanor set up these press conferences for women reporters only
because she wanted to give them news that men couldn't get.
Speaker 3 (16:44):
Eleanor had her first press conference just two days after
entering the White House. That was before FDR had his.
Speaker 4 (16:51):
First press conference as president.
Speaker 9 (16:54):
She didn't know exactly how to handle herself at first.
It is said that she walked around and with a
box of candied fruit and started acting like a hostess.
Speaker 3 (17:07):
As awkward as that first press conference may have been,
it didn't take her long to find her footing. Eleanor
had a strong sense for what the country cared about.
She held many causes near and dear to her heart,
and she realized these were the kind of stories she
could share with women journalists. Within a few weeks, she
(17:31):
was ready to show them and the public what she
was made of. She invited Amelia to dinner at the
White House.
Speaker 9 (17:39):
Was a way of courting the public through taking part
in an event that did make news. Here you had
two of the most notable women of the era, and
she took along some of her favorite reporters on this
flight over Washington. You have to have a sense of
draw if you're going to be in the public eye.
Speaker 3 (17:59):
The night flight shows us how this virtuous press cycle worked.
Women journalists got to come along. They got the byline
in the papers the next day, and of course Eleanor
got the headlines First Lady in night Flight, First Lady
goes on night air trip. First Lady of Land flies
(18:20):
with first Lady of the Air. We may take for
granted today that the first Lady is a public figure
with a platform and press coverage, but that wasn't really
the case before Eleanor.
Speaker 9 (18:33):
Earlier first ladies didn't think it was too feminine to
court publicity. Certainly, Eleanor's predecessor, lou Henry Hoover, Allo, extremely
educated and accomplished woman, didn't want much press attention, even
to the point that when she had a Christmas party
(18:54):
at the White House for Girl Scouts, she wouldn't allow
the press in, if you can imagine such a thing.
So Eleanor came in, and she was quite willing to
focus attention on herself. You have a first Lady for
the first time is seeking to be in the news.
Speaker 3 (19:11):
The night flight wasn't the last of her exploits to
captivate the press. There was the time she was driven
two miles into a coal mine showing her support for
the workers hit hard during the depression. The papers captured how,
wearing a quote borrowed gray overcoat and a miner's cap,
Eleanor emerged from the mine to a cheering crowd twenty
(19:35):
five hundred strong, and her month long journey to the
South Pacific during World War Two certainly didn't escape the
news cycle either. Eleanor's connection to the press ran deep.
In fact, Eleanor did so much press she actually thought
of herself as part of the press corps.
Speaker 9 (19:58):
What people don't seem to realize about her is that
she actually considered herself a journalist on her income tax returns.
Speaker 3 (20:06):
And in a way, hey, that makes sense because in
addition to providing quotes and posing for photo ops, she
started covering the adventures she took herself. During her time
in the White House, Eleanor made nearly the same number
of radio appearances as her husband, the President. She hosted
her own programs. She wrote a number of books and
(20:29):
hundreds of articles, including a daily column. For many years,
it was called My Day, and it was syndicated in
ninety newspapers. It had millions of readers, and Amelia Earhart
picked up a thing or two from Eleanor's success.
Speaker 7 (20:48):
She quickly learns to do what Eleanor Roosevelt I think
had already learned to do, which is to use her
celebrity to promote the causes that she cares about.
Speaker 3 (20:58):
Historian Susan Ware again, you.
Speaker 7 (21:01):
Really have to keep the name out there if you're
going to maintain your celebrity. It is this kind of
nitty gritty of the lecture circuit and the grinding out
the articles and the appearing on newsreels and all these things.
Speaker 3 (21:17):
Like Eleanor, Amelia did her own share of stunts to
garner attention and intrigue. It wasn't just her record breaking
flights either. There was the time she tried out deep
sea diving or demonstrated a new device to help pilots
with parachute jump training. To sustain her flying and her advocacy,
(21:37):
she had to sustain her fame. In her own words,
no pay, no fly, and no work no play.
Speaker 7 (21:46):
Flying was expensive and planes just don't pay for themselves,
and so she really had to work at bringing in
an income.
Speaker 3 (21:57):
The press coverage that those women and that night flight
got it had financial benefits. Exclusive articles after Amelia's flights
could pay big bucks. The New York Times paid twenty
thousand dollars in nineteen twenty eight for a story of
the friendship flight. The lecture circuits also paid, and all
(22:18):
the attention led to brand deals for Amelia with a
car company, Kodak film, and engine company. She also designed
and modeled her own line of clothing and luggage. Her
designs were advertised in the pages of Vogue and featured
in a Macy's window display decked out with a model
(22:39):
of her pilot's cabin. This was the precursor to the
celebrity brands we all know today, whether it's Kim Kardashian's
skims or fenty Beauty by Rihanna.
Speaker 9 (22:52):
The flight was important in a commercial way to both
of these women. Eleanor wasn't raising money for a flight
around the world, but Eleanor wanted to use her time
in the White House to promote the interests of the
democratic and certainly to try to improve of a lot
of people who were in such dire straits during the depression.
Speaker 3 (23:13):
Eleanor was proud to donate to charity with money that
she made herself through lecture circuits, for example, or her
own radio program, specifically from the show's sponsors.
Speaker 9 (23:26):
Blander gave these sponsor broadcasts, and she got away with it,
shall we say, in the public eye, by saying that
she was giving the money that she made to charity.
Speaker 3 (23:37):
Eleanor could make as much as three thousand dollars for
just one episode. When you account for inflation, that's more
than fifty thousand dollars today. The average American worker was
not earning that much in an entire year.
Speaker 4 (23:53):
And now I believe we'll pause to listen to a
few words from mister Graua.
Speaker 8 (23:58):
Thank you, Missus Roosevelt. Friends, the makers of Sweetheart Soap
feel highly privileged who have arranged these visits with Missus Roosevelt. Poyers.
Listen regularly and be sure to make friends with the
product that's responsible for all of this. Sweetheart Soap, pure
creamy white with a delicate fragrance all its own. Sweethet
Soap has become one of America's most popular soap.
Speaker 3 (24:21):
Eleanor's broadcasts had all kinds of sponsors, cold creams, coffee, typewriters, mattresses,
way before all your favorite podcasts had ad breaks for
Casper Mattress. Critics, though, felt like she was commercializing her
role in the White House.
Speaker 9 (24:39):
If you could imagine today, I think we would be
somewhat appalled if we had doctor Biden on a television program,
say that's sponsored by Toyota. People would say, well, you know,
this is totally inappropriate.
Speaker 3 (24:53):
But Eleanor was playing the long game. Doing pr at
this level, achieving fame at this level requires some serious strategizing.
The right image for these women had to be crafted,
and in all honesty, their husbands were a huge help
with that. Eleanor leveraged her status as the President's wife,
(25:15):
and Amelia had GP Putnam.
Speaker 7 (25:19):
I will say that having GP Putnam made an enormous
difference to Amelia Earhart's career.
Speaker 3 (25:27):
GP was Amelia's manager turned husband. He was always behind
the scenes, pulling levers, forging partnerships, planning speaker events, and
enforcing deadlines. He took charge of keeping her in the spotlight,
and when she was he advised her to smile for
the cameras with closed lips though to hide the gaps
(25:48):
in her teeth. Oh, and no hats. He found her hat,
to be quote, a public menace.
Speaker 7 (25:55):
She was in some ways just the perfect heroine. She
was incredibly modern looking and attractive, She had short, tussled hair.
She would fly wearing slacks and a plaid shirt and
with a silk scarf nodded around her neck. And so
when she landed, she would come out and she would smile,
(26:19):
her kind of shy smile, and she's just made for
the newsreels.
Speaker 3 (26:24):
Amelia shot into the spotlight like no female pilot had before.
Her media presence in this arena was unrivaled. Her husband's
work was essential to that, but privilege was at play
here too.
Speaker 7 (26:38):
One thing we really need to remember is that Amelia
Earhart was not the only female aviator in the time.
There were quite a lot, not huge numbers, not as
many as men, But there were other independent, spunky women pilots,
you know, the kind of women who just won't take
(26:58):
no for an answer, who were setting records and doing
daring flights and trying to start airlines and all kinds
of things. They didn't have a full time publicist the
way she did with her husband.
Speaker 3 (27:13):
The fact that Amelia was a white woman played a
big part in her acclaim. There were talented pilots of color,
like Bessie Coleman, who passed away a couple years before
Amelia's Atlantic crossing. She's largely forgotten now, but she certainly
deserves to be remembered as an American icon, the first
(27:33):
black pilot man or woman to acquire an international pilot license.
Yet it was Amelia who the world was able to
accept as the all American girl. Eleanor also figured out
how to present herself in the public eye. She could
bend the rules, she could travel and speak out as
(27:55):
long as she painted herself just the right way as
the good first lady, the patriotic wife.
Speaker 9 (28:03):
Because of Franklin's incapacity during polio, Paulis was willing to
accept the fact, Oh, this is a wife helping her husband,
so it's fine that she wants to take inspection trips
around the country and see what's going on and then
report to him. She was a beloved figure, but she
(28:24):
was always seen as a good woman who's helping her husband.
Speaker 3 (28:28):
In the nineteen thirties, the world just wasn't ready for
women to abandon traditional values.
Speaker 9 (28:35):
No, I do not think that Eleanor could have projected
herself as she did had she not couched what she
said very carefully in the vein of a traditional wife
and mother. So I think that was necessary politically for
her ideas to be accepted.
Speaker 3 (28:52):
In addition to aviation, Eleanor and Amelia both wanted women
to be a part of the workforce and to be paid.
But just because they had big ideas didn't mean they
cast themselves as revolutionaries.
Speaker 9 (29:07):
She didn't make raging political speeches, and certainly she didn't
come out with flaming statements that women should be themselves
and they should forget about the family and that sort
of thing. She didn't.
Speaker 7 (29:19):
There had been the women's suffrage movement, which culminated in
nineteen twenty with the passage of the nineteenth Amendment, and
then in the nineteen sixties and seventies there's the resurgence
of what's called second wave feminism. In these intervening years,
there isn't a mass movement, but that doesn't mean that
(29:39):
feminism dies or goes away. You just have to look
for it in different places.
Speaker 3 (29:45):
It's there, but it's not loud and proud. If Amelia
and Eleanor took that approach in the thirties, they wouldn't
have made the same impact.
Speaker 7 (29:55):
I have no problem calling both Eleanor Roosevelt and Amelia
Earhart feminists. I often use a definition that Eleanor Roosevelt
put forth in nineteen thirty five that talks about women
having equal opportunities with men.
Speaker 3 (30:15):
The Night Flight encapsulates this all perfectly. They put on
a show of femininity and glamor. They dressed up in
their gloves and their gowns. That was the backdrop for
their message about women's ability. It was political, but it
was still subtle. It was supposed to feel harmless, not
(30:35):
like they were crashing through the glass ceiling. Their ability
to walk that tightrope, to push the envelope but not
rock the boat. The only way to pull that off
was masterful pr and the night Flight well, it may
have created a model that celebrities are still using today.
Speaker 11 (31:11):
Two girlfriends decide it would be fun to take a
road trip across America. They start out in the West
Coast and drive all the way across the country, making
pit stops along.
Speaker 2 (31:23):
The way and really seeing what is not just America,
but Americana.
Speaker 11 (31:29):
These drive by towns that most people wouldn't necessarily stop in,
and they take us on a journey with them that
is just unforgettable.
Speaker 2 (31:39):
They crash a wedding.
Speaker 11 (31:43):
They play bingo Bingo was all the rage, and they
play bingo.
Speaker 2 (31:47):
They sleep in a teepeek. They stop in a hotel that.
Speaker 11 (31:51):
Looks like almost a caricature of a teepeek.
Speaker 3 (31:56):
That's Kelly Carter Jackson, a professor at Wellesley College, and
this is Leah Wright Ragure, a historian from Johns Hopkins.
Speaker 12 (32:06):
They had to department store where they try on with
the help of like local shoppers. They try on beautiful
gowns and dresses. They end up buying several things.
Speaker 3 (32:16):
This might sound like another story about Amelia and Eleanor,
but it's not.
Speaker 12 (32:22):
Of course, we are talking about Oprah Winfrey and her
Bessie Gail Kings, two of the most famous black women
in America.
Speaker 2 (32:31):
Let alone you know like the world.
Speaker 3 (32:34):
Kelly and Leah are both academics and the co hosts
of You Get a Podcast, The Unauthorized Study of the
Queen of Talk.
Speaker 11 (32:44):
As a kid, I was obsessed with Oprah. I watched
Oprah all the time. My family members used to tease
me because I watched the show so much.
Speaker 12 (32:53):
Oprah Winfrey is ubiquitous.
Speaker 2 (32:55):
As a child.
Speaker 12 (32:56):
Growing up in the eighties and the nineties, Oprah Winfrey
was the culture she was everywhere, So it wasn't that
she was just a part of the culture.
Speaker 2 (33:05):
She was actually defined.
Speaker 12 (33:07):
It was can't miss TV.
Speaker 3 (33:09):
So why are we talking about Oprah and Gail. Bear
with me for a minute here. This cross country road trip,
it actually has a lot in common with the night flight,
even though these things happened seventy years apart. The road
trip was in two thousand and six. It aired as
an episode of The Oprah Winfrey Show.
Speaker 11 (33:31):
And along the way they deep in their relationship, they
find out more about themselves, they find out the things
that annoy themselves about each other. You get to see
the different personalities. You get to see how like Gail
loves to sing along to the music in Oprah whether
right along in silence, like she doesn't like listening to music.
Speaker 12 (33:52):
So we're not watching I mean, we are watching for
the Shenanigans, but we're also watching for the beautiful friendship
between Gail and Oprah.
Speaker 3 (34:00):
There's this element of friendship and joy and what seems
like spontaneity, even though it's a big play and trip
with lots of cameras. All of this makes it feel
like a modern version of Amelia and Eleanor and Like
the night Flight, the stunt had some deeper symbolism.
Speaker 11 (34:19):
What's more American than being black and pulled over by
the police.
Speaker 3 (34:23):
A key moment in the trip happened when Oprah and
Gail and their caravan of camera people and producers were
driving in Kentucky When one car got stopped by the police.
The whole group pulled over to wait, which was something
the officer wasn't expecting.
Speaker 11 (34:40):
The highway patrolman is like, get off my highway, you know,
like he's like yelling at them and confused that he's
pulled over one car.
Speaker 2 (34:48):
Now all these other cars are stopping.
Speaker 6 (34:50):
Get all we're with the Oprah Show doing a shoot.
Speaker 11 (34:54):
And when Oprah gets out the car and pulls that
sort of oprahcart like hello, I'm Oprah Romfree, he realizes like,
oh shit.
Speaker 1 (35:04):
This is Oprah Winterring.
Speaker 6 (35:05):
We're doing a TV show.
Speaker 2 (35:08):
You like, I have not just pulled over anyone I've
got Oprah were free and thirty five cares. This is
not what happens every day.
Speaker 3 (35:17):
Though at that point it becomes a big joke. Oprah
and Gail even start teasing the officer, I know.
Speaker 2 (35:25):
You, what what are you saying?
Speaker 12 (35:27):
My way and so we're looking at that moment and
being like, oh, she's trying to invert this idea of
like what it means to be black and be pulled
over in the middle of nowhere on a road like
this is this is a black person's worst nightmare, right
to be pulled over in the middle of rural southern
America and have a police officer essentially question like, what
(35:51):
are you doing? You don't know, like you could be
breathing wrong. And here Oprah and Gail being like, actually,
the power dynamic is inverted because I'm a black billionaire haha.
Speaker 2 (36:00):
Jokes on you and the cameras rolling.
Speaker 3 (36:04):
As much as they make the situation seem hair free,
the potential danger of their position doesn't go totally unremarked upon.
After Gail tells the officer they're doing a TV shoot,
the episode cuts to Gail in a studio interview.
Speaker 6 (36:21):
Shoot was wrong word to use, Gail to.
Speaker 4 (36:25):
Queue the laugh.
Speaker 12 (36:26):
Track, but it also feels like a really safe way
to introduce white audiences to like black people's reality. Right.
It's not a George Floyd moment, which is so shocking
as to perhaps turn people off. Right to see a
man murdered by the police on camera, right in excruciating ways.
Speaker 2 (36:51):
No, this is wow.
Speaker 12 (36:54):
Even Oprah Winfrey gets pulled over, right.
Speaker 2 (36:57):
But but it's contained, it's safe.
Speaker 12 (37:01):
Right, So it feels like almost like it is a
safe space for white people to understand what it means
to be a black woman driving in mobility around the country.
Speaker 3 (37:16):
Oprah has smashed through the glass ceiling and so many
other barriers. But Oprah didn't build her empire by being
an activist. She's a brilliant marketer, a brilliant entertainer. It's
the stunt the show they put on that makes this memorable.
Oprah and Gail are engaging with political and social issues
(37:38):
on a highly rated TV show, not from a political podium.
Speaker 12 (37:43):
She is centering black women's joy on a platform, a
huge platform, one of the biggest in the United States,
and saying, look, black women being joyful.
Speaker 2 (37:52):
Now what people tell us all the time?
Speaker 12 (37:55):
What episode do you remember? I remember the Girls Trip.
It's not some huge active resistance. And I think part
of the attitude that Oprah and Gail have, which is
actually interesting in this day and age where it feels
like you have to do in your face pronouncements about race, Oprah.
Speaker 2 (38:09):
Are like, like, we're black women. That's it. Like, there
you go.
Speaker 12 (38:14):
But part of what we are doing is a project.
Speaker 11 (38:17):
And in normalizing, yes, that's the board I was gonna say, normalizing.
Speaker 12 (38:21):
Right, normalizing Black women joy and existing.
Speaker 11 (38:26):
Their very existence, their very presence is radical. And so
it's the same thing with Eleanor and with Amelia. It's
like a woman flying a plane. You don't have to speak,
it speaks volumes.
Speaker 3 (38:40):
The night flight was a PR stunt. Nobody would know
about the joy Ride if it wasn't for the women's
incredible relationship with the press. But it also wasn't fake
or disingenuous. These women genuinely supported the cause and they
genuinely seemed to enjoy themselves in the cockpit. Decades before
(39:01):
talk shows and reality TV and social media, Eleanor Roosevelt
and Amelia Airhart gave us a model for sending a message.
Speaker 12 (39:11):
I love this those high powered baddies right, nineteen thirty baddies.
Nineteen thirties was not a hot time for women.
Speaker 2 (39:19):
No, it really wasn't.
Speaker 12 (39:21):
And just at the vote, and so for her and
Amelia Earhart to kind of come out and be like
America's most wanted, like like, let's go in a lot
of ways. They're like paving the way for a kind
of Gale Oprah type thing. And I don't think that's
an exaggeration. Like I could see people be like, oh,
that's a stretch. That's a stretch, but it's not right.
It's like the first Lady of the United States and
(39:43):
the most celebrated and famous woman of the era, right,
Amelia Earhart basically saying no, no, no, Like we're shunning
the conventions and the rules of the era and we're
going to be part of my French These bad bitches
who go around and like make decisions and influence politics
and have our own fashion line and we're raking in dough.
Speaker 11 (40:03):
These are women that could really push boundaries, but they
didn't have to be Outlandis.
Speaker 10 (40:09):
To do it.
Speaker 12 (40:09):
She doesn't have to say anything else.
Speaker 2 (40:12):
Yeah, same with Amelia flying. She doesn't have to do
anything else. All she has to do is fly the
plane and land it. And that's boom enough said.
Speaker 5 (40:21):
Obviously, no surprise. These women were incredibly famous and influential.
Everybody knows that their posters are in every elementary school.
But their fame was very modern and Eleanor is basically
a podcast host. Amelia's doing brand deal Sweetheart soap. Probably Yes,
I really enjoyed getting that insider take.
Speaker 6 (40:41):
I had never heard the story or heard of it before.
Speaker 1 (40:43):
This is all new to me, and I absolutely loved
it because the whole image of Amelia Earhart and Eleanor
Roosevelt and glamorous evening gowns, white gloves is so against
what I think of them, and yet it's so perfectly
fit them.
Speaker 6 (40:53):
I was like, wow, look at that.
Speaker 1 (40:55):
The range of people, and also obviously them just taking
to the night sky is such an iconic image.
Speaker 4 (40:59):
I felt the same way.
Speaker 3 (41:00):
I had actually never heard this story before this episode.
It felt like a Marvel mashup that I just did
no happened?
Speaker 4 (41:08):
Oh my god. Of course those women had met, yes exactly.
Speaker 1 (41:11):
I kind of knew they were friends, but I didn't
know what good friends they were and how they helped
each other and bolstered each other. And I loved that
Eleanor has her own media persuasion campaign. That's like pr stunt,
which goes along with FDR's fireside chests. They're both like
shaping the nation through media.
Speaker 6 (41:25):
I loved that.
Speaker 4 (41:25):
Okay, who are we going to cast? We have two
strong female characters here.
Speaker 1 (41:29):
Okay, so Eleanor Roosevelt. I went with a young Olivia Coleman.
I thought she could nail it.
Speaker 2 (41:34):
Oh yeah, you like that.
Speaker 1 (41:36):
Right, And then Familia Earhart Julia Garner, the curly headed
blonde from Ozark.
Speaker 6 (41:41):
Oh she's great if you were familiar with Ozark, yes, yeah, right,
and then I thought she'd be good. And if not her,
then a young Geena Davis. And then for G. P.
Putnam the husband. I thought I wanted a decent guy.
So I don't know why. John c Riley just to
me screams decent.
Speaker 1 (41:55):
I just expect him, like, oh yeah, he looks like
you could have money and be like, I love my wife, So.
Speaker 5 (41:59):
I would see that film.
Speaker 4 (42:00):
That's great casting. I love Olivia Coleman.
Speaker 3 (42:03):
I feel like, if anyone's listening, let's just get her
in any movie where she gets to first lady.
Speaker 6 (42:07):
Yeah right. Also, I forgot FDR.
Speaker 1 (42:10):
I don't know why, but I thought Sam Rockwell as
Horny FDR that would be really funny.
Speaker 6 (42:16):
So there you go.
Speaker 4 (42:17):
Who's your very special character?
Speaker 6 (42:19):
Hmmm, Jason, you got one.
Speaker 5 (42:20):
I think Eleanor Roosevelt plays nine different characters in this
but especially her as the podcaster. Getting three thousand dollars
an episode or the equivalent of about fifty thousand today.
That's the dream. I think we should hold that up
and try to return to that standard.
Speaker 4 (42:36):
She's our podcast inspiration.
Speaker 3 (42:38):
I'm also going to say, the terrible White House chef,
kudos to you for doing a bad job.
Speaker 6 (42:43):
Oh yes, brilliant, great call.
Speaker 1 (42:47):
I mean, I love her. She was my first hero,
so Amelia Earhart. I just got out of respect for her.
She's my very special character because I love her.
Speaker 5 (42:57):
Very Special Episodes is made by some very special people.
The show is hosted by Danish Schwartz, Sarah Burnett, and
Jason English. Today's episode was written by Dylan Hoyer. Our
producer is Josh Fisher. Our story editor is Marisa Brown.
Editing and sound design by Chris Childs, Mixing and mastering
(43:21):
by Beheid Fraser. Original music by Elise McCoy, Research in
fact checking by Dylan Hoyer and Austin Thompson. Show logo
by Lucy Quintinia. Our executive producer is Jason English. If
you'd like to email the show, you can reach us
at Very Special Episodes at gmail dot com. Very Special
(43:44):
Episodes is a production of iHeart Podcasts.
Hosts And Creators
Zaron Burnett
Dana Schwartz
Jason English
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