September 24, 2024 • 52 mins
This week, Theo is on the ground for a brutal Grant's Pass motivated sweep of a long term, vulnerable unhoused community in El Monte, CA this month. He speaks with people affected, and asks sheriffs and Army CORPS members on how one can justify sweeping and threatening to arrest allies assisting the unhoused in the middle of a triple-digit heat wave. How are sweeps changing now that the Supreme Court has empowered them? The reality is gruesome.
Then, Theo speaks with returning guest Kath Rogers, an attorney with the Southern California ACLU, who gives a detailed perspective on how the establishment is taking advantage of the Grant's Pass decision, how it differs from policies under the Martin v. Boise decision, and how the unhoused can defend themselves in the face of this horror.
Learn more about Kath's work here:
https://www.aclusocal.org/en/biographies/kath-rogers
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:02):
Previously on Weedian House.
Speaker 2 (00:05):
Hillside Villa is a low income apartment complex in Chinatown
and the tenants have been fighting for six years. Six
years ago, their rents were protected by something called a
covenant which restricted their rents to affordable levels. But as
soon as that covenant expired, their landlord tried to raise
their rent like by you know, really punishing levels, and
(00:25):
so the tenants actually organized and have been fighting back. So, yeah,
the Hillsidevilla tenants, they really changed the conversation about housing.
Speaker 3 (00:34):
Anybody's supposed to have a roof over the head, even
if you're rich or poor. Nobody's supposed to live on
the street on those conditionions. Housing is a basic human
right that these rich, greedy people don't understand and they
take it like a business, you know, to make money
for them.
Speaker 4 (00:55):
Welcome to Whedian House. I'm your host Neo Henderson. Today
we're going to talk about the impact that Grant's Pass
as it applies to Almonte, California. But first and House News.
It's been eighty one days since the Grants Pass ruling
(01:16):
has been handed down. Here are the growing list of
unhoused sweeps in California. Santa Monica, which is looking to
ban blankets and pillows, Long Beach, San Juaquin County, which
is making the unhoused move three hundred feet every hour
(01:37):
to avoid arrest. Fresno, whereas now illegal to camp anywhere
at any time, even if there is no shelter available.
San Diego County, San Francisco. Beginning August first, twenty twenty four,
Mayor London Breed promised that aggressive sweeps will begin and
(02:00):
raise the Grand's pass ruling. Chico, California, Home Springs California,
Central Valley, California, Little Tokyo, California, and lastly, where I'll
be taking you later in this episode, al Monte, California.
It is important to note that fourteen cities and one
(02:21):
county in California alone have passed new ordinances to make
anti unhoused laws more punitive. Our next story, given the
grants past ruling, I have two questions for our listeners today.
How many children are unhoused in the state of Oregon.
(02:46):
The answer is eight hundred and thirty six thousand, nine
hundred and eighty eight children, a number taken from the
National Alliance Coalition to in Houselessness. The next question I
have for our listeners is how many unhoused people were
arrested due to Ordinance forty one to eighteen in Los
Angeles between the years twenty sixteen and twenty twenty two.
(03:15):
The answer is seventeen thousand, three hundred and seventy two,
a number taken from the website a controller Kenneth Maheath.
Our last story takes us to San Diego, California, where
an organization called The Rescue Mission must pay forty three
thousand dollars after limiting access to emotional support animals. The
(03:39):
Rescue Mission must now also update its animal policy and
enrolled staff and training programs about the rights of disabled individuals.
Speaker 1 (03:49):
And that is on House News.
Speaker 4 (03:55):
When we come back, we're going to do a deep
dive using real life accounts from the House impacted by
Grant's Pass and Governor gavinan Neusom's executive order on the
residence of Almonte, California.
Speaker 1 (04:13):
And we're back.
Speaker 4 (04:15):
For those that are tuning into my show for the
first time, I want to take the time to describe
what the Grants Pass Supreme Court decision is and how
it impacts unhoused community members. The unhoused community knows violence.
They are not comfortable with it, but they expect it
(04:35):
and have found ways to cope with the violence. In
California and the surrounding La County areas, unhoused community members
are no strangers to forty one eighteen and other ordinances
that erase and criminalize their existence. With Martin Versus Boise,
(04:55):
the Supreme Court declared it was cruel and unusual punishment
to criminalize unhoused people for existing. The Supreme Court Grant's
past ruling has superseded Martin versus Poise. Grant's pass in
short says it's okay to unleash the dogs of cruelty
and unbridled violence against the unhoused.
Speaker 1 (05:17):
Grand Pass says it is now not cruel.
Speaker 4 (05:21):
And unusual punishment to criminalize unhoused people for existing.
Speaker 1 (05:27):
They do not have to.
Speaker 4 (05:29):
Offer services, shelter, close or blankets, or any type of
humane gesture when dealing with the unhoused community. You will
hear in this show some of the empty gestures made
by law enforcement and the Army Corps of Engineers. Please
pay close attention to ACLU lawyer cath Rogers' perspective on
(05:54):
the matter and her work with the unhoused community.
Speaker 1 (05:57):
We'll be speaking with her later on in this episode.
Speaker 4 (06:01):
This episode, you will hear unhoused people trying to cope
with the new information and reality. And here in the backdrop,
the La County Sheriffs and the Army Corps of Engineers
aren't fisted defense of the indefensible in a heat wave.
Here are some dire facts I want you to sit with.
(06:21):
According to a twenty twenty three investigation by the Los
Angeles Times, nearly half of the deaths that were heat
related deaths were unhoused people. Bear in mind this sweep
occurred during a heat wave advisory that impacted many unhoused
community members with age and health challenges. This is their
(06:42):
story and Elmonte sweep is unique in this way. First,
the terrain of the area works against you. If you're
someone who has to move all your belongings through the
algae on the riverbed, who are up the big level incline,
people must scale to get out of the riverbed in
(07:04):
the first place.
Speaker 1 (07:05):
It's not going to be easy.
Speaker 4 (07:07):
If you have disabilities like I do, it's all but impossible.
Even alternative waves are physically punishing full of thicket and rocks,
and uneven surfaces that could easily result in a fall.
And remember this is during a heat wave and the
triple digits. You have to be Indiana Jones to navigate this.
(07:28):
But the unhoused being swept were doing so in extremely
difficult and traumatic circumstances. Secondly, people are being swept very quickly.
When the sheriff arrived at the scene, unhoused people were
only given fifteen minutes to gather and move their things
through this terrain or risk arrest if they came back later.
(07:50):
When asked why it needed to happen that quickly, people
were told by the sharfs that they had been worn
and given time to prepare. I arrived in Elmonty on
a Friday morning. This was the scene. This is the
first initial observations of what's going on with the sweep
(08:12):
here today on Friday, September the sixth, and here is
some of the things that I first noticed.
Speaker 1 (08:20):
The heat. It's already earlier at.
Speaker 4 (08:22):
Six thirty ish in the morning, and it's already going
to wrap up to be a very hot morning. The
second thing is the location. It's kind of near the
wash area near the La River. And also the thing
that it is it's a lot of rough terrain. It's
very difficult to navigate, so it chances are it will
be difficult to navigate to get out. The third thing
(08:45):
did also notice is the difficulty traversing this place. I
slipped and fell a couple of times. And now I'm
also near behind the golf course. There are law enforcements
here station where they's bind to pick up the unhow
those communities trash or things that they deem trash. The
most important thing to notice here is it seems like
(09:07):
the community is a bit resigned for the inevitable, and
the inevitable is that they have to leave, and they
are trying to extricate themselves as smoothly as quickly as
possible without an aggressive push from law enforcement. That question
becomes where they go. According to the official verdict or
(09:30):
visual statements, it's that they are going to be put
into either.
Speaker 1 (09:35):
Hotels or places or shelters.
Speaker 4 (09:39):
They're saying that they claim that they have shelters, but
the reality is that they are going to drive them
to a shelter and then they'll start the process to
see if they can get in. If they cannot, they're
still going to be out on the street. The point
of it is is to move them away from this area.
One thing they've note about this area that is very
different from other areas. Some similarities near Harbor City Freeway,
(10:03):
but the difference with this is it's a NIMBI has
to really work at trying to hunt down unhoused people
or find the reasons to complain about unhouse people. That's
one of the reasons why when Grant's Pass was passed,
it removes a lot of the subterfuge.
Speaker 1 (10:21):
If you will.
Speaker 4 (10:21):
This a better word of why they're removing people this
subterfuge is is because they're near land mass of pervincial
for wildfires and other things. But they're behind the golf
course and you have to look again for the young
house unless you're actively trying to seek them. They're not
(10:42):
on the golf course. They're behind the golf course where
the golf course has a fence. So the only reason
is that you have to face is that they don't
want to see unhoused people anywhere, and they're going to
do everything in their power to make sure that that happens.
This time, the bad players are the Army Corps of
Engineers instead of being the city itself, trying to justify
(11:06):
by saying the business owners or the people, you're near
a school, or you're near homes.
Speaker 1 (11:12):
These are at homes.
Speaker 4 (11:13):
It's very idyllic out here, has great views, you can
watch the sunrise, and it's very quiet and tranquil, So
there is very little reason for you to bother the
vulnerable out here, to say, Los Angeles County Sheriff Kingsley
(11:35):
Obershure presented a nice, nasty demeanor that gave off intimidating
vibes to anyone who engaged with him.
Speaker 1 (11:42):
Isn't understated.
Speaker 4 (11:43):
He made no bones about wanting to arrest Pe, and
was not shy about saying so, not just to the unhoused,
but to activists there to assist and advocate for them.
Speaker 1 (11:54):
His justification for.
Speaker 4 (11:55):
Taking such a hard nosed approach was that people had
been worn said that they want services, and this is
what they get.
Speaker 1 (12:03):
Okay, So what is.
Speaker 5 (12:04):
Your overall go Because I'm not gonna sit here all day.
I got got a job to do.
Speaker 1 (12:07):
Our goal is to sort of figure out what y'all
are doing. As I explained earlier, it's a clean up.
Speaker 5 (12:12):
Yeah, okay, so I don't know what else you want
me to explain.
Speaker 1 (12:15):
How else do you want me to explain it? But
that's what we're here for. Okay, I'm gonna make it clear.
If you guys interfere, you will go to jail for interference.
Speaker 5 (12:21):
What if interfere means you delay us from cleaning and
in the way, anything that instructs from them cleaning or
disrupted from cleaning, you will go to jail.
Speaker 1 (12:30):
But I think everybody here is trying to help get
it good.
Speaker 5 (12:32):
But I want trying to be let me just finish.
I'm trying to be fair and I'm explaining it. So
in the case an event happens, which I'm not saying
it will, and I hope it doesn't, everybody's aware and
we're all on the same page, so there's no miscommunication
of what's going on and what's gonna happen in that sense.
So any obstruction, delaying the cleaning crew, anything like that,
(12:55):
you will go to jail.
Speaker 1 (12:56):
Point plane, Okay, cool.
Speaker 5 (12:59):
So who do you guys have that's over here that you.
Speaker 1 (13:01):
Need to help ill?
Speaker 5 (13:03):
Really, I don't know if you have, nobody's been you
guys can continue.
Speaker 4 (13:07):
But I'm not saying that there isn't anybody I like
this one.
Speaker 1 (13:11):
No one's here, so we're good with that.
Speaker 5 (13:13):
So let's stop loitering around, hanging around abody. You guys
can help. It's helping you about the way so we
can start cleaning.
Speaker 4 (13:21):
After we spoke with the sheriff, the sweep began and
I bought witness to the scene. Supporters from the for
the Young House out here helping with the moving operation
even though it's after seven, and then giving to go
ahead to start to sweep the Young house. The sheriffs
are ever increasingly are going to be approaching. They're holding
(13:45):
court with some of the people that are asking them
some questions. The tone is very matter of fact. It's helpful,
but this this what we call nights nasty. They told
that we're going to be arrested if we obstruct sanitation
or the operation in any way, and they want to
(14:05):
save a rattle very quickly. Is to start maybe kickoff
of confrontation. But there's people are getting coming together, helping
move as much as possible many of the stuff for
the other house. Interviewing unhoused people in the throes of
sweeps is usually something I don't do as a practice
(14:27):
from my own experience. You're stressed out, you're intimidated, and
based on how the sheriff was behaving, an unhoused person
would want to stay focused on moving and not angering
the person displacing them.
Speaker 1 (14:40):
But it was important to have.
Speaker 4 (14:41):
This discussion in Elmonte for the simple fact of gauging
folks understanding of the grants, past ruling and what their
next steps would be.
Speaker 1 (14:50):
I got a chance to speak with two long term residents.
Speaker 4 (14:52):
Who were being swept, Denise and Gabriel, about their feelings
in the moment as the bulldozers came out, more about
what rants passed will mean for them.
Speaker 1 (15:04):
Okay, so I have So what happened.
Speaker 6 (15:08):
I had already been asking for.
Speaker 5 (15:09):
You know, this is for already.
Speaker 6 (15:12):
It's been a long time. So they happen to see
me here and recognize me, and then they said you're
still here, and I said yes, and so they I
kind of pushed them a little more and pushed them
into the specific girl.
Speaker 1 (15:24):
But I don't know where she was.
Speaker 6 (15:25):
But they put me in a motel. Okay, thank god,
but for five days.
Speaker 1 (15:29):
So so what happens at.
Speaker 6 (15:30):
Five I don't know, you know, after five days, and
I just said to them I need to kind of
look vacuum. So this week the things, you know, and
so it's been like fresh resh wresh.
Speaker 4 (15:39):
They're stating that they came August twelfth to talk to
you guys, and they came up a few days before
to talk to you guys. And then they said that
they off work resources, which technically five days. That she
gets them off the hook. That they did offer something
they didn't offer you like housing of.
Speaker 6 (15:55):
Them, I asked them, and that the posting of the
information was not where everyone.
Speaker 7 (16:01):
Could see it.
Speaker 4 (16:01):
And okay, that's the that's the second thing, because I
didn't see any Yeah, so that's because.
Speaker 6 (16:07):
Like they've done that to us when we were on
the sidewalk there. But they they then of course they
did put our stuff they're supposed to, you know, like
for ninety days. But these guys are just that. Yeah,
that's what I want.
Speaker 4 (16:23):
To also ask you about because most most people that
are living out here because I lived out downtown, and
they do something similar to this.
Speaker 6 (16:32):
And all that. Ye had a comment, but they did
it to us last year? Was it last two years?
Speaker 1 (16:39):
So it was Christmas? Oh my god, the.
Speaker 6 (16:45):
Last time before it was Thanksgiving?
Speaker 1 (16:48):
Why did you do it on the holiday. I don't know,
I want to actually have.
Speaker 8 (16:53):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (16:54):
Have you guys heard of Grant's past, You know what
Branch Passes and Grant's Oregon, there was an unhoused community
like this year that was being targeted the same way
it's being targeted here. The Supreme Court passed the ruling
that says that they are allowed to sweep unhoused people
without offering in the services and you don't leave immediately,
(17:15):
that you're subjected to all of the criminal penalties, which
is why that notice has all of those legal violations
that they claim.
Speaker 1 (17:24):
That they are house people. Yeah, so what's your thoughts
on it?
Speaker 4 (17:27):
Do you think that's a good idea to start to
punish people that are living on the street, don't have
no resources.
Speaker 6 (17:31):
It's just I think it's it's been a long It's
it's been six years years than me.
Speaker 1 (17:37):
Yeah.
Speaker 9 (17:38):
Yeah, I've been here nine years. My bullies are nineteen years.
Speaker 1 (17:40):
Oh my goodness. Oh I'm sorry to hear that.
Speaker 9 (17:44):
And he's felt the same way.
Speaker 4 (17:46):
Yeah, how did how did you become unhoused? I got
sick and couldn't afford the bills, so you were feting.
Speaker 9 (17:52):
Bully was sick he was prategic, okay, and he was
dying head camp. You think you're so I can help
him out, exting eight years and then he passed away.
Speaker 6 (18:02):
You have in here nine years old.
Speaker 1 (18:03):
I'm sorry to hear that, young, What about you.
Speaker 6 (18:09):
I was served with restraint and ordered papers to get
me out of my home because I my mother didn't
like the fact that I inherited. But she changed the
paperwork and the cops worked for her to get me
out and I can't seem to get back in the
simple city is terrible with us, me and my my brother.
(18:29):
They don't like me because I went ahead and fought
for his right, I mean a brutality right after Rodney King.
That's when this happened. And so I won for my brother,
kept him out from you know, they nearly killed him.
So they harassed me like twenty three times, pulling me
over within two years. And that's a lot. And it
just goes on, you know, and put my being here.
(18:50):
I mean, you know, it's tough, but I don't get
harassed in here versus just if I just go out
to walk, go to the store. You know, you know,
it's awful. And I didn't even have a parking ticket,
so I don't trust them, but you know, that's how
that happened to me. And I wish I want to
go back home, but they don't seem to help me
(19:12):
to like reunification. It could be back to chop it off.
Speaker 4 (19:15):
They're my houses, you know what I mean.
Speaker 1 (19:18):
I'm so sorry to hear that.
Speaker 6 (19:19):
You don't have different stories.
Speaker 1 (19:24):
So what's your plan for if they run you out
of here? Because guys, are you guys going to come back?
Speaker 9 (19:28):
Or they have a legal right music, Well, they.
Speaker 1 (19:31):
Got grants pass.
Speaker 4 (19:32):
Now they don't have to necessarily offer any services if
they see you back here. But right, it doesn't matter that,
it doesn't matter. They're working in concert with the market
Corps of Engineers.
Speaker 1 (19:44):
So they don't want you on the land.
Speaker 4 (19:45):
And then when Grant's passes passed all over the country,
whether it's county or federal, that's what that's that's.
Speaker 6 (19:51):
What the loss of the things who's trying to get
you know, I was telling them, it's not going to
be the same like before.
Speaker 9 (19:58):
If you happen to you know, just you.
Speaker 4 (20:01):
Should on the strength of that Grant's pass is alleviated
and freed them to do what they've been wanting to do.
What has held them at bay was Martin versus Voice,
which was the Supreme Court at the time, stated it's
cruel and unusual punishment to start to criminalize on house
people for the physical exist. But now Grant's pass has
(20:21):
superseded that, that is erased that so now they have
the opportunity to do what they've been wanted to do
with The sheriffs came in this morning, ready to sweep.
Speaker 1 (20:30):
People, ready to arrest people.
Speaker 8 (20:35):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (20:35):
So that's one of the things too, is like what
do you what do you think? What can you do?
Speaker 6 (20:40):
Exactly? That's the there is nowhere to go, there is
nowhere after. There isn't this for me.
Speaker 3 (20:48):
I don't know.
Speaker 4 (20:51):
That's where it looked like I don't have no rights
for me.
Speaker 1 (20:54):
Yes, well I don't. I don't want to hold you
too long. My name is THEO.
Speaker 4 (20:59):
Thank you very much for your time, and you guys
say say hopefully I'll try to follow up and see
what you guys and how you guys do. Thank you
so much to Denise and Gabriel forved time. Sometime later,
I caught up with the antagonists of this story, the
(21:19):
core of engineers that coordinated the sweep itself. They feigned
the ignorance about Grant's past, they feigned the ignorance about
the escalation of the sweeps. In earlier times, this statement
would have had the same eerie import it has today.
Speaker 1 (21:34):
I was just doing my job. So what does the
arm corp of Engineers do?
Speaker 4 (21:41):
And why was this such an urgency to remove these
other houseman remembers?
Speaker 1 (21:45):
Since I believe August why movement? Because there are.
Speaker 4 (21:48):
Very limited resources that are available in the city. We
are in an unhoused crisis. We are also in a
heat wave. I mean why, I'm just still trying to
understand what is the urgency for them to move today?
Where could have been?
Speaker 1 (22:00):
So this is actually an ongoing thing.
Speaker 4 (22:02):
We've been doing cleanups all year. This is not the
only location.
Speaker 1 (22:08):
We've been doing multiple cleanups.
Speaker 4 (22:10):
All across Despite the weather advisories, you guys still do them.
Speaker 8 (22:15):
So we can't speak to why the scheduling is what
it is. Obviously we aren't the ones who made that decision.
We were told when and where to be places and
that's why we're here. As far as we can answer
more questions about what the Army Corps.
Speaker 1 (22:28):
Of Engineers is and what they do.
Speaker 8 (22:30):
So the Army Corps of Engineers and the Los Angeles
District is primarily in charge of the flood risk management,
you know, controlling floodwaters come down from the hillsides and
the mountains around us. There's catastrophic floods in the nineteen
thirties that wiped out a lot of downstream communities, so
a lot of deaths, a lot of destruction, a lot
(22:51):
of impacted the economy.
Speaker 1 (22:53):
So that's why the.
Speaker 8 (22:55):
Army Corps of Engineers came through. After the state and
local governments couldn't figure it out, federal government stepped in
created these channels and levy systems to control those massive
flood events and get it all the ocean as quick
as possible. So flood risk management is a primary mission
in our area, Environmental stewardship and protection, recreation. Army Corps
(23:18):
of Engineers owns the floodplaining areas and they release it
out to cities, counties.
Speaker 4 (23:23):
The golf course behind us, Yeah, it's all in the
golf course the land. We own the land, but it's leased,
so they're they're the managing entity.
Speaker 8 (23:32):
So with your narrows, that whole complex, that's all floodplain,
and it's all been leased out to the to the county,
you know other places, you know.
Speaker 1 (23:41):
Like Spulving the dam.
Speaker 8 (23:43):
Yeah, that whole complex that's leased out to the city,
Santa Fe Dam locally. So all these you know, construction
projects that the Army Corps did initially to control the
flood areas. Obviously, we're seasonal, we don't always get those
hundred thousand year floods or whatever. It's avable to be
used in the meantime for recreation purposes, and it has
(24:03):
actually benefited Los Angeles area to give us white swaths
of green space that would otherwise just be crowded with
urban population.
Speaker 4 (24:12):
So we'd be urban population, you mean, like be on
house community.
Speaker 8 (24:16):
The skyscrapers, houses, industrial complexes.
Speaker 1 (24:20):
Urban sprawl is more what I'm talking about.
Speaker 8 (24:23):
So, you know, if you think of all the recreation
and green areas that we have in the area, Army
Corps of Engineers has a big majority of it, and
most people don't know it because we're just a little
label on that sign as you drive through.
Speaker 4 (24:35):
My question is too, because you make the French of
you guys have been doing these weeks all year. Did
grants pass have anything to do with escalating or or
speeding up you guys's timeline or is there I'm.
Speaker 1 (24:45):
Not familiar with.
Speaker 8 (24:50):
We do this across jurisdictions. We were in Newport Beach
an assault marsh projected habitat just a couple of weeks ago,
La County, river Side County, Orange County, San Bordino County.
And that's just a portion of our Los Angeles district
in southern California. We also cover most of Arizona, part
(25:11):
of the bat At Utah as well, So you also
covered Utah as well, just the southern part of Utah there.
Speaker 1 (25:17):
But yeah, so we have oh okay.
Speaker 8 (25:20):
Yeah, so our Los Angeles district isn't just Los Angeles,
it's the southern California Southwest Full Corridor basically.
Speaker 4 (25:29):
Okay, So as you can see, this has caused some
quite disruption trying to move people's lives here. Yeah, just
you know, people are trying to survive and it's a
pacting from the federal to the local and I just
don't understand if they come back, will you guys redoup
this again or because there's no really no place to go.
(25:51):
I mean to be honest, because since Branch past has passed.
There has been cities and states have been stepping up
trying to remove on house people, and they have their
limited resources. They don't know where, you know, they jump
to the county or they go to the federal. Then the
federal can jump on and then like for example, caltrans
is moving unhoused people, the city is moving unhoused people,
(26:13):
and they make this very blanket statement of their offering services.
But the services are innative with for just like this,
this housing crisis. AM just just curious what's the end
game because you guys going to be like adult chasing
this tail.
Speaker 1 (26:26):
It's not going to stop.
Speaker 8 (26:28):
I sympathize to that point of view. I just I
don't have a good answer for you.
Speaker 4 (26:32):
From your standpoint.
Speaker 9 (26:34):
We have to follow up.
Speaker 6 (26:34):
We're reinterrupted to do also.
Speaker 7 (26:36):
And honestly, you know where where some of these places are.
It's they're putting themselves at risk. All No, it's a
safety answer.
Speaker 4 (26:45):
Well, being on the house is a safety risk with
a lot of things that's going on, you know, just
be I don't think house people appreciate the difficulties to
survive out here in the elements and trying to protect
themselves they are in dangered species from the human populace
that didn't receive it, So that argument can be made
as well, speaking from my whole personal experience.
Speaker 8 (27:07):
So yeah, I understood any more questions for us, sir,
I think we're gonna get on the other side there.
Speaker 1 (27:12):
Thank you, Thank you very much, all right, thank you.
Speaker 4 (27:21):
I hope taking this incident in will lead to more
information being shared and gazed among our activists and mutual
ad groups about the matter of Grant's past. Are we
behaving in a reactive way or are we behaving ignorantly
of what grant past means versus what Martin v.
Speaker 1 (27:40):
Boise meant.
Speaker 4 (27:46):
When we come back, I will speak with ACOU lawyer
caf Rogers to get guidance and insight on the reality
of Grant's past.
Speaker 1 (28:00):
Welcome back to Weedian House.
Speaker 4 (28:02):
It is my pleasure to have a returning guest on
the show, caf Rogers, who is now a staff attorney
at the ACLU.
Speaker 1 (28:11):
Here's our talk.
Speaker 7 (28:14):
It's so good to be back with you THEO on
this amazing podcast, and you just do incredible work and
inspire me and really good to be back here with you.
Speaker 1 (28:23):
Such a nice thing to say. I don't want to
be crying on here. You should do that. I got
my box of tissues and all. No, I hope.
Speaker 7 (28:32):
But yeah, So I think the last time that we
were on here together was a while back. I think
we were talking to know your rights stuff back and yeah,
I was representing on house folks and activists and still
doing similar work just for ACLU of Southern California. And now, yeah,
I get to work on what's called the Dignity for
(28:54):
All Projects, and that's a project where we protect and
advance the dignity of unhoused folk folks through both litigation
and also advocacy work and basically fight for the fundamental
human right to housing because housing is a human right.
And also we sue cities and we sue beliefs when
they violate unhoused people's civil rights. So that's what I've
(29:16):
been working on lately.
Speaker 4 (29:17):
I was going to say, because I think I remember
reading briefly about something in Santa Bernardino where you evolved
with that well lawsuit in ACLU.
Speaker 1 (29:24):
Can you tell us a little bit about that.
Speaker 7 (29:26):
Yeah, Yeah, that lawsuit is ongoing. That's called Tyson versus
the City of San Bernardino, and it's I mean you
know how these things play out, and just about every
city where there's encampment removals or raids where cops and
city officials come in and displace people, destroy people's things.
(29:46):
So this was a case about that, about these raids,
and basically we sued the city of San Bernardino on
behalf of five unhoused people and then a mutual aid organization.
And what was happening is the city was coming through
and destroying everything that people had. People's you know, essential property.
(30:07):
They're tense. One of our clients lost the last photograph
of his mom that he ever had after she passed away.
You know, people's ashes, medicines. One of our clients had
a walker destroyed. So that was one issue is just that,
you know, the summary destruction of property, which we know
is really really common. But the sort of novel aspect
(30:27):
of the case is the disability rights piece. As you
know a lot of folks have disabilities and cities just
trample on their disability rights all the time, and so
this case said that these encampment raids unduly burdened people
with disabilities because it's much harder if you end up
in a ravine or a riverbed or a flood channel,
(30:48):
and you're trying to be in a wheelchair or a
walker and trying to move. And then also when you've got,
you know, ten minutes to move all your stuff, pack
up everything, how are you going to do that if
you have a serious disability, whether that's mental health disability,
whether that's physical disability. And in good news, the court
actually agreed with us on this case, and in January
(31:10):
we got a preliminary injunction that barred any displacement of
any unhoused people throughout the city of San Bernandino. And
that preliminary injunction.
Speaker 4 (31:17):
Is still in effect even with Grant's pass, even with
grants pass.
Speaker 1 (31:21):
Good Good, You're.
Speaker 4 (31:23):
Touching on so many awesome points that I was over
in Elmonte last weekend and I went and reported on it,
and I'm not in Superman's shape. I'm not twenty years old,
and it was difficult for me one because of the heat.
It's bofering my internal injuries, and then also just for
me to just walk and navigate because there's this steep
(31:44):
incline because it's right near the wash, and you're mentioning
something that I don't hear much of it is like
the disability aspect of it affects people and sweeps. And
I'm so encouraged to hear that when you say that,
but please continue.
Speaker 1 (31:57):
I didn't mean to interrupt.
Speaker 7 (31:59):
Yeah, I'm so glad that you brought up al Montea.
I was just hearing from some activists who were on
the ground there and it sounds like it was absolutely
horrific what happened.
Speaker 1 (32:08):
Yes, it was, yes, but.
Speaker 7 (32:10):
People had really well established homes that they had built
that were just completely bulldozed and destroyed.
Speaker 4 (32:16):
I came during when they did the sweep, and then
I deliberately came Sunday to show the after effects.
Speaker 1 (32:23):
And there has been seeing in.
Speaker 4 (32:24):
Footage of people who have had their homes bombed or
looking like a third world country in the respect that
things have been disarrayed.
Speaker 1 (32:33):
It looked exactly like that.
Speaker 4 (32:34):
All you had to do is not scraped out the
Los Angeles and you would have thought you were in
a work throat world terrain. How they had left the
unhoused property and things that they had they hold deer.
And the thing that is is when I go out there,
it's such a difficult place to traverse.
Speaker 1 (32:51):
There is no even type of terrain.
Speaker 4 (32:54):
It's difficult for me because I have disabilities, and then
it was hard for me to navigate during the heat
and navigate just trying.
Speaker 1 (33:02):
To walk to just a small like almost for a block.
Speaker 4 (33:06):
If it was an even concrete based block, it would
have been easier, but this was not. It was uneven terrain.
There was the insects, it was the heat, and then
people trying to navigate that still older people that was
like at least sixty five and up trying to traverse
getting all this stuff down this crooked heel or if
it's way this steep incline with shopping carts, and you
(33:30):
can see why some of the young house just left
it because there is no way to have the assistance
that was necessary. I really wanted you to see what
we can talk about and what creative ways that we
could help the young house on the ground, and then
what can we do to make sure that they are
protected because this is a very vulnerable community. It's not
(33:52):
like we're here in downtown Los Angeles like on Little Tokyo,
where you can see the encampments and people can nimbias
can wave their angry fist and police immediately swarm This
is like the wild wild West.
Speaker 1 (34:05):
They just out here. They're not bothering anybody.
Speaker 4 (34:08):
Because you can't unless you are just actively looking for
unhoused people in this area.
Speaker 1 (34:12):
It's right behind the golf course.
Speaker 4 (34:14):
So unless you're a nimby that don't want to see
unhoused community members why you're setting off for your tea's,
then you have to really have an aggressive reason why
you bother people over at the Elmonty. So I just
am so encouraged to hear that. So any insights on this, Yeah, no, that.
Speaker 7 (34:32):
That just sounds so awful to you, And I think
what you're raising there's so many themes right, Like one
is why do people end up in these far corners.
It's not because they want to be in a riverbed,
it's not because anybody wants to be, you know, on
the side of a highway or something like that. People
go to these dangerous far reaches, and we've seen unhoused
(34:53):
folks who've gotten killed in some of these areas when
water breaches like these dams and stuff like that, and
people go there because they're not safe anywhere else, and
cops are literally chasing people from block to block. And
that's the only place that people have to go.
Speaker 4 (35:07):
And not to mention brush fires because I for the
respiratory thing, because that was what was bothering me. I
had to really not stay long because I can feel it.
I'm like, you know, it's one of the people that
feels that are affected by climate change are unhoused people,
especially with the brush fires, the heat waves that we having,
the cold spells, and we know these things and we
(35:28):
have to plan accordingly, which is why we have a
lot of stuff to be able to navigate these kind
of things where people house can go in get an
air conditioned or you know, bundle up on heat until
the bad weather advisory passes. You know, that's just another
aspect of another dimension that most house people don't understand.
You know, when you see things you don't understand, you judge.
(35:50):
But it's a very aggressive, hostile environment climate wise. And
also how people look at unhoused people.
Speaker 7 (36:00):
Yeah, and the temperatures this week, I mean we saw
like over one hundred degrees, which is going to get
more and more common and unhoused folks, so they talk
about you know, frontline community members and folks who contribute
the least to climate change, right like you know, using
the least amount of energy, contributing the least amount of
like carbon to the atmosphere, but then literally on the
(36:20):
front lines, you know, dying in the heat, experiencing you know,
wildfires and things like that, feeling the most effects of
anybody from climate change.
Speaker 1 (36:31):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (36:32):
So the next thing that I was noticing too when
I was there is that, you know, the aggressiveness of
law enforcement. And the thing of it is is like
they were so aggressive even to the legal observers. They
were forcing them out, and then they were making sure
that there was limit recording of the fact of how
they were destroying on house homes, and then to how
(36:55):
they manipulate the rules to make sure that they are
not being watched or observed legally on their behavior. They told,
for example, me and other people that were recording this,
that we were to observe maybe like two or three
miles away from things that are obstructed that we can't see.
(37:16):
And the thing with it is it's being enforced by
that rule that they can't safely and they're using the
safety conversation. They're using the safety narrative to push to
push people out, and there's no really oversight in pushing
back on. When there's a sheriff that's aggressive, there's no
other supervisors to come and tell him, hey, cut out
(37:37):
this aggression, because now you're excalating the situation. We recently
seeing the incident where there was aggressive law enforcement where
a football player. But it's like this is open season
when there's unhoused people of color, particularly that there is
no one that's stepping in and says we're not here
to be aggressive. We're not here telling them that we're
going to arrest them. And you make them very anxious
(38:00):
because people that have their own belongings have a right
to be upset about what's going on to them. And
if you push them and say you know you don't
like it, you know you can go to jail, and
then told them if they move in a timely manner,
and you got sixty five year old people with trying
to move their things. Leaves a bad taste in my mouth,
but it also gives rise to more aggression, particularly with
(38:23):
the Los Angeles Sheriff's Department.
Speaker 7 (38:25):
Yeah, absolutely, and THEO you know this better than anyone
that you know. We have a right to photograph and
film police in public places, you know, and there's been
some litigation over this. There's a case called Martinez versus Fresno,
and in that case it was exactly the same thing
where beliefs and you know, sanitation workers are trying not
(38:45):
to have activists film them, and you know even journalists
film and the cord isshuy to preliminary junctions. So if
poliefs are trying not to have folks photograph and film,
that's probably a violation of their rights. I mean, you know,
within reason, in a public space, you have the right
to photograph and film. So if you know, I know,
this was recently an issue also with lex from La
(39:08):
Taco and City of Los Angeles. So yeah, we need
to push back when cops don't allow people to photograph
and film, because that is your constitutional right in public.
Speaker 4 (39:18):
But here's another example of how they're trying to violate
people's civil rights here in city hall. Most recently they
are trying to limit the protests of Palestinian protests, put
them in what they call bubbles and things. So it
is not so far off the realm of how they
are slowly trying to encroach on your civil rights, but
trying to do it in a way that they don't
(39:38):
get the knuckles tapped forward. We'll continue this conversation after
this break.
Speaker 1 (39:49):
And we're back.
Speaker 4 (39:51):
The Grants passed with such a monumental decision, and I
wanted to take the time to say, what's the difference
between Martin versus Boise and Grant's pass.
Speaker 7 (40:03):
Yeah, So Martin versus Boise was a really important decision.
It came down in twenty eighteen, and basically it said
that under the Cruel and Unusual Punishments clause of the
Eighth Amendment, criminal penalties for life sustaining conduct, so like
you know, sitting down, lying down, just basically existing in public,
(40:24):
that you couldn't criminalize that under the Eighth Amendment because
that's cruel and unusual. People need to sleep, they need
to walk, they need to put their things down on
the sidewalk, and when you're on house, the only place
you have to do that is in public spaces. And
so that was what Martin b. Boise did, and then
Grant's pass extended it a little bit to like tickets,
you know, like a civil ticket. Also, the court talked
(40:48):
about the importance of having blankets and things like that
to keep warm. So it's a little bit further than
Martin b. Boise, But similar concept, right, just it's cruel
and unusual to penalize people just for existing. Unfortunately, in
Grant's pass, this new conservative majority Supreme Court has said
it's no longer cruel and unusual under the Eighth Amendment
(41:09):
to punish people for existing outside and having a blanket
and sitting down, lying down, things like that.
Speaker 4 (41:15):
And Santa Monica is voting to ban pillows and blankets
in their area as a result of Grant's pass.
Speaker 1 (41:22):
That's an example too.
Speaker 7 (41:24):
So yeah, what one thing we're trying to do is
track all these cities and counties that are starting to
pass these terrible new policies basically criminalizing camping, criminalizing setting
things down on the sidewalk, and also calling for more
encampment raids for police to come through and just displace people.
So we're seeing two things as one, new policies being passed,
(41:48):
and then the second thing is new practices where police
are just doing more raids on people's encampments. So we're
trying our best to just track it because there's so
much going on all throughout the state, both with Grant
pass and now with our governor with his executive order
and all his rhetoric that's making things so much worse.
Speaker 1 (42:07):
I agree.
Speaker 4 (42:07):
It's like I've been trying to do a kind of
returning or recurring kind of thing on my on House
News about Grant's past, because one of the things too
is though the aggressive, aggressive sweeps and the raids are
going on, it's like we are kind of on the
back foot in a respect, like even in activism, we
(42:27):
are not really fully appreciating everything that's going on with
Grant's past. Why this is so different. One of the
things about El Monte is that I'm trying to even
get the activists as well as the young housed community
to understand this is different. This is not Martin versus Boise.
This is going to be an ugly kind of progression.
(42:47):
It's just like you know, when Regulus raids happen on house,
people just come back, but they are becoming aggressive.
Speaker 1 (42:54):
They're saying that they're going to arrest you, and they.
Speaker 4 (42:57):
Have the power of the authority to do that now,
and that's going to weigh very differently than it is
is when you just had maybe Martin versus Boise, you
had it more of a fighting chance, You had ways
to stem the tide of aggression. But now this is
a little bit different. You know, I've taken a list
of places right now, I've got at least eleven places
(43:20):
that have picked up sweeps, and I keep getting more
and more notifications of and make me I want to
you have to go there. They'll check it out or
talk with the people there and figure out what's going
on and how to support them and how to keep
the conversation connected with the activism circle in order for
us to not feel like we are isolated and alone,
because that's another thing. It's very isolating what they're doing,
(43:42):
and they know that we are not really ready or
we're fighting Martin versus Boisese battles and we're not fighting
the Grant's past battle and by the time we do that,
they will be, you know, full blown sweeps and it
to be probably a very ugly kind of steamrolling that's
going to be going on, particularly because the World Cup
is in twenty twenty five and in the Olympics here
(44:05):
is going to be twenty twenty eight.
Speaker 7 (44:07):
Yeah. No, I think that's a really good point that
the sweeps isolate people and make it a lot harder
to build power, make it a lot harder for you know,
folks to connect with mutual aid groups and really you know,
rise up and organize. And I think that's that's definitely
by design, you know. And I think you're right that
right now a lot of the work seems really reactive,
(44:27):
and yeah, how can we get out ahead? Because we
know that even with Martin B. Boise, I mean we
we saw the same kind of raids, we saw property destruction.
So you know, the law and paper only gets us
so far. You know, the lived reality is so much
different that people's rights are violated every single day, even
you know, even when we do have these good core decisions.
Speaker 4 (44:50):
So I, like I said, you know, these conversations are
necessary and to be had. One of the things is
like when you say about the know your rights and
when we started off, do you think, no, your rights
is still applicable into what the grants pass era.
Speaker 7 (45:03):
Yeah. Absolutely, I think it's really important for folks to
know their rights because you still do have rights.
Speaker 4 (45:10):
Well, it's so important to know that because like what
grant's passed, you know, it's not be the I guess
the death nail. I don't want to make it sound
like I'm trying to bring the Cassandra, the arbitry of doom.
But you know, there is some things that we do
need to be aware of. We can't just go blindly
off with our sorts and our shields and get blown up.
So what things don't know? Your rights that we should
(45:32):
be aware of.
Speaker 7 (45:33):
Well, one of the things I think is the most
powerful is you have the right to photograph and film
police in public and whenever you're being harassed by law enforcement,
whenever you have an interaction with law enforcement, document that
you know, get that, get the officer's knee and get
their badge number, put them on video, you know, and
being careful if you're filming, you know, don't film the
(45:54):
unhoused folks in an encampment, film the police officers who
are harassing them, so that you know, you have your
focus on the law enforcement. Also, police and cities don't
have the right to destroy unhouse people's personal.
Speaker 1 (46:07):
Property, even with grants pass.
Speaker 7 (46:09):
Even with grants pass. Yeah, you have your Fourth Amendment
right to your property. You have your Fourth Amendment right
against unreasonable search and seizure. That still completely applies. So
if a city destroys somebody's property, that is a violation
of their rights and you have the right to your
personal property. Also, there should be notice of these encampment
(46:29):
raids under the due process clause on the fourteenth Amendment,
and so that still applies. So in general, you should,
you know, always have a notice if there's some kind
of cleanup or some kind of encampment raid come in,
you should get that notice. They're usually put up. It's
you know, forty eight hours, seventy two hours, whatever it
is in your area. Also, you have the right to
disability accommodation. So if you're disabled, if you have you know,
(46:51):
mental health or physical health disabilities, you have a right
to a reasonable accommodation and that applies across the board
for the government under Title II of the Americans with Disability.
Speaker 4 (47:00):
So does that include if they tell you that you
have thirty minutes to sleep or they have like ten
minutes to sweep and you need a disability accommodation, can
you ask for that and they must stay granted or
didn't they just say no, you had noticed since August
you could have moved this do in or whatever it's
that still applicable there.
Speaker 7 (47:18):
You should absolutely ask for a disability accommodation, and you
know you can ask at the time of notice. You
can ask, you know, at the actual encampment rate when
it's going down. You know, say I have a disability,
I'm asking for a reasonable accommodation. You don't have to
say what your disability is, just what the limitation is.
So you know, I'm having trouble, I can't move everything.
(47:40):
I need help. Here's what I need, here's the reasonable
accommodation I need. And the government's obligated to respond to
your reasonable accommodation requests. They don't always have to grant,
you know, everything, if it's if it's a fundamental alteration
of the program, they don't always have to grant it.
But they do have to engage with you. And that's
part of your rights under the ADA. And so you
want to adopt a minute too. You want to if you
(48:01):
do it spoken word, you can film it. If you
write it down, that's always good because then you have
a paper trail, you know talking you know, who did
you talk to and if they if they're giving you trouble,
you know, ask for a supervisor, but definitely ask for
that reasonable accommodation. And then you know, unhoused folks have
the same rights in police encounters as anybody else. So
(48:22):
you have the right against unlawful searches. For example, so
if the cop says, hey, can I look in your ten?
Speaker 6 (48:27):
Hey?
Speaker 7 (48:27):
Can I look in your backpack? Can I look in
your pockets? Whatever? You know, I don't consent to this search, officer,
Am I free to leave? You also don't have to
answer officers questions. You know, if you are being detained
or if you're under arrest, it's good to give your
ID just for you know, for processing and everything beyond that.
You know, the less you say, the better. You don't
(48:48):
want to answer officers questions. They are not your friends,
they're they're not there to be buddy buddy, and you know,
so the less you say to the police, the better
you do not you know, and you can say it calmly.
You can say, you know, officer, I exercise my right
to silence. I don't want to speak and I don't
want to answer questions. So yeah, on house, folks absolutely
have rights, no matter what our governor would lead us
(49:10):
to believe.
Speaker 1 (49:11):
Excellent.
Speaker 4 (49:12):
I think that's an excellent punctuation mark for this conversation,
because I believe that there was a lot there's a
lot of anxiety after Grants passed, and I want us
as a community to realize all hope is not lost.
There's still things that we can resentment ourselves and reground ourselves,
but also understanding that there's twofold things. We have to
(49:33):
educate the un housed on what's going on because I
think sometimes because in my own experience when I was
in house dealing with heat waves, in trying to deal
with the exhaustion and other health issues, it's just like
it's just sometimes could be too overwhelming, it'd be too
much to bear too psychologically. But we have to let
them know that this is this is going on. But
even though this is going on, there are the different
(49:55):
things that we can do to protect ourselves and it
may take a process and in letting our activists know
as well that this is a difference between Martin v.
Speaker 1 (50:04):
Boise era and Grants passed.
Speaker 4 (50:05):
There's some similarities, but there's definitely some sticking points that
we need to, you know, be aware of. But also
we need to be really documenting and showing the aggression
because it's going to pick up, because it's picking up
in every other place in California, I mean literally and
I can, I dare say that, you know, other places
that I'm not focusing on readily yet it's also happening too.
Speaker 7 (50:30):
Yeah, absolutely, absolutely.
Speaker 4 (50:32):
That I think I covered everything. Did I miss anything?
Speaker 6 (50:35):
Well?
Speaker 7 (50:36):
I feel like we could talk forever obviously any time.
This is not you know, we can just pick this
up any day.
Speaker 4 (50:44):
Yes, yes, And I'm trying to be respectful of your
time and all, but also I'd like to invite you back,
you know, to talk about this the conversation again and
we could, you know, pick up on the progress or regress,
if you will, on what's going on with this Grand
Pass and the sweeps and any other exciting work that
you're working on.
Speaker 1 (51:04):
Is that the Dignity project?
Speaker 7 (51:05):
Yeah, Dignity for All projects?
Speaker 1 (51:07):
Yep, oh, Dignity for All. That's awesome.
Speaker 4 (51:09):
You know, I could say, I'm so excited to hear
that your guys are on the front front of that
and you guys are doing great work.
Speaker 1 (51:15):
Thank you very much, Calves. I appreciate it so much.
Speaker 7 (51:19):
That was amazing. I feel like we can literally talk forever.
Speaker 4 (51:22):
So yeah, thanks to Calf for her time, and you
can learn more about her work with the Southern California
ACOU at acousocal dot org. And that's it for ELMNTY
for now. Remember this is a developing story. The unhoused
(51:44):
people displaced that day will not just disappear, and I
will continue to follow up and see how they are
navigating the new reality of Grant's past. And as always,
please like and subscribe, and if you like to share
your story on widian Howse, please reach out to me
at widian Howse on Instagram or email me at widianhows
(52:06):
at gmail dot com. Thank you again for listening and
may we again meet in the light of understanding. Whedian
Howes is a production of iHeartRadio. It is written, posted,
and created by me Theo Henderson, our producers Jbie Loftus,
Dailey Fager, Katieficial, and Lyra Smith. Our editor is Adam
(52:31):
Wand and our loco art is also by Katieficial.
Speaker 1 (52:35):
Thanks for listening.
Previously on Weedian House.
Speaker 2 (00:05):
Hillside Villa is a low income apartment complex in Chinatown
and the tenants have been fighting for six years. Six
years ago, their rents were protected by something called a
covenant which restricted their rents to affordable levels. But as
soon as that covenant expired, their landlord tried to raise
their rent like by you know, really punishing levels, and
(00:25):
so the tenants actually organized and have been fighting back. So, yeah,
the Hillsidevilla tenants, they really changed the conversation about housing.
Speaker 3 (00:34):
Anybody's supposed to have a roof over the head, even
if you're rich or poor. Nobody's supposed to live on
the street on those conditionions. Housing is a basic human
right that these rich, greedy people don't understand and they
take it like a business, you know, to make money
for them.
Speaker 4 (00:55):
Welcome to Whedian House. I'm your host Neo Henderson. Today
we're going to talk about the impact that Grant's Pass
as it applies to Almonte, California. But first and House News.
It's been eighty one days since the Grants Pass ruling
(01:16):
has been handed down. Here are the growing list of
unhoused sweeps in California. Santa Monica, which is looking to
ban blankets and pillows, Long Beach, San Juaquin County, which
is making the unhoused move three hundred feet every hour
(01:37):
to avoid arrest. Fresno, whereas now illegal to camp anywhere
at any time, even if there is no shelter available.
San Diego County, San Francisco. Beginning August first, twenty twenty four,
Mayor London Breed promised that aggressive sweeps will begin and
(02:00):
raise the Grand's pass ruling. Chico, California, Home Springs California,
Central Valley, California, Little Tokyo, California, and lastly, where I'll
be taking you later in this episode, al Monte, California.
It is important to note that fourteen cities and one
(02:21):
county in California alone have passed new ordinances to make
anti unhoused laws more punitive. Our next story, given the
grants past ruling, I have two questions for our listeners today.
How many children are unhoused in the state of Oregon.
(02:46):
The answer is eight hundred and thirty six thousand, nine
hundred and eighty eight children, a number taken from the
National Alliance Coalition to in Houselessness. The next question I
have for our listeners is how many unhoused people were
arrested due to Ordinance forty one to eighteen in Los
Angeles between the years twenty sixteen and twenty twenty two.
(03:15):
The answer is seventeen thousand, three hundred and seventy two,
a number taken from the website a controller Kenneth Maheath.
Our last story takes us to San Diego, California, where
an organization called The Rescue Mission must pay forty three
thousand dollars after limiting access to emotional support animals. The
(03:39):
Rescue Mission must now also update its animal policy and
enrolled staff and training programs about the rights of disabled individuals.
Speaker 1 (03:49):
And that is on House News.
Speaker 4 (03:55):
When we come back, we're going to do a deep
dive using real life accounts from the House impacted by
Grant's Pass and Governor gavinan Neusom's executive order on the
residence of Almonte, California.
Speaker 1 (04:13):
And we're back.
Speaker 4 (04:15):
For those that are tuning into my show for the
first time, I want to take the time to describe
what the Grants Pass Supreme Court decision is and how
it impacts unhoused community members. The unhoused community knows violence.
They are not comfortable with it, but they expect it
(04:35):
and have found ways to cope with the violence. In
California and the surrounding La County areas, unhoused community members
are no strangers to forty one eighteen and other ordinances
that erase and criminalize their existence. With Martin Versus Boise,
(04:55):
the Supreme Court declared it was cruel and unusual punishment
to criminalize unhoused people for existing. The Supreme Court Grant's
past ruling has superseded Martin versus Poise. Grant's pass in
short says it's okay to unleash the dogs of cruelty
and unbridled violence against the unhoused.
Speaker 1 (05:17):
Grand Pass says it is now not cruel.
Speaker 4 (05:21):
And unusual punishment to criminalize unhoused people for existing.
Speaker 1 (05:27):
They do not have to.
Speaker 4 (05:29):
Offer services, shelter, close or blankets, or any type of
humane gesture when dealing with the unhoused community. You will
hear in this show some of the empty gestures made
by law enforcement and the Army Corps of Engineers. Please
pay close attention to ACLU lawyer cath Rogers' perspective on
(05:54):
the matter and her work with the unhoused community.
Speaker 1 (05:57):
We'll be speaking with her later on in this episode.
Speaker 4 (06:01):
This episode, you will hear unhoused people trying to cope
with the new information and reality. And here in the backdrop,
the La County Sheriffs and the Army Corps of Engineers
aren't fisted defense of the indefensible in a heat wave.
Here are some dire facts I want you to sit with.
(06:21):
According to a twenty twenty three investigation by the Los
Angeles Times, nearly half of the deaths that were heat
related deaths were unhoused people. Bear in mind this sweep
occurred during a heat wave advisory that impacted many unhoused
community members with age and health challenges. This is their
(06:42):
story and Elmonte sweep is unique in this way. First,
the terrain of the area works against you. If you're
someone who has to move all your belongings through the
algae on the riverbed, who are up the big level incline,
people must scale to get out of the riverbed in
(07:04):
the first place.
Speaker 1 (07:05):
It's not going to be easy.
Speaker 4 (07:07):
If you have disabilities like I do, it's all but impossible.
Even alternative waves are physically punishing full of thicket and rocks,
and uneven surfaces that could easily result in a fall.
And remember this is during a heat wave and the
triple digits. You have to be Indiana Jones to navigate this.
(07:28):
But the unhoused being swept were doing so in extremely
difficult and traumatic circumstances. Secondly, people are being swept very quickly.
When the sheriff arrived at the scene, unhoused people were
only given fifteen minutes to gather and move their things
through this terrain or risk arrest if they came back later.
(07:50):
When asked why it needed to happen that quickly, people
were told by the sharfs that they had been worn
and given time to prepare. I arrived in Elmonty on
a Friday morning. This was the scene. This is the
first initial observations of what's going on with the sweep
(08:12):
here today on Friday, September the sixth, and here is
some of the things that I first noticed.
Speaker 1 (08:20):
The heat. It's already earlier at.
Speaker 4 (08:22):
Six thirty ish in the morning, and it's already going
to wrap up to be a very hot morning. The
second thing is the location. It's kind of near the
wash area near the La River. And also the thing
that it is it's a lot of rough terrain. It's
very difficult to navigate, so it chances are it will
be difficult to navigate to get out. The third thing
(08:45):
did also notice is the difficulty traversing this place. I
slipped and fell a couple of times. And now I'm
also near behind the golf course. There are law enforcements
here station where they's bind to pick up the unhow
those communities trash or things that they deem trash. The
most important thing to notice here is it seems like
(09:07):
the community is a bit resigned for the inevitable, and
the inevitable is that they have to leave, and they
are trying to extricate themselves as smoothly as quickly as
possible without an aggressive push from law enforcement. That question
becomes where they go. According to the official verdict or
(09:30):
visual statements, it's that they are going to be put
into either.
Speaker 1 (09:35):
Hotels or places or shelters.
Speaker 4 (09:39):
They're saying that they claim that they have shelters, but
the reality is that they are going to drive them
to a shelter and then they'll start the process to
see if they can get in. If they cannot, they're
still going to be out on the street. The point
of it is is to move them away from this area.
One thing they've note about this area that is very
different from other areas. Some similarities near Harbor City Freeway,
(10:03):
but the difference with this is it's a NIMBI has
to really work at trying to hunt down unhoused people
or find the reasons to complain about unhouse people. That's
one of the reasons why when Grant's Pass was passed,
it removes a lot of the subterfuge.
Speaker 1 (10:21):
If you will.
Speaker 4 (10:21):
This a better word of why they're removing people this
subterfuge is is because they're near land mass of pervincial
for wildfires and other things. But they're behind the golf
course and you have to look again for the young
house unless you're actively trying to seek them. They're not
(10:42):
on the golf course. They're behind the golf course where
the golf course has a fence. So the only reason
is that you have to face is that they don't
want to see unhoused people anywhere, and they're going to
do everything in their power to make sure that that happens.
This time, the bad players are the Army Corps of
Engineers instead of being the city itself, trying to justify
(11:06):
by saying the business owners or the people, you're near
a school, or you're near homes.
Speaker 1 (11:12):
These are at homes.
Speaker 4 (11:13):
It's very idyllic out here, has great views, you can
watch the sunrise, and it's very quiet and tranquil, So
there is very little reason for you to bother the
vulnerable out here, to say, Los Angeles County Sheriff Kingsley
(11:35):
Obershure presented a nice, nasty demeanor that gave off intimidating
vibes to anyone who engaged with him.
Speaker 1 (11:42):
Isn't understated.
Speaker 4 (11:43):
He made no bones about wanting to arrest Pe, and
was not shy about saying so, not just to the unhoused,
but to activists there to assist and advocate for them.
Speaker 1 (11:54):
His justification for.
Speaker 4 (11:55):
Taking such a hard nosed approach was that people had
been worn said that they want services, and this is
what they get.
Speaker 1 (12:03):
Okay, So what is.
Speaker 5 (12:04):
Your overall go Because I'm not gonna sit here all day.
I got got a job to do.
Speaker 1 (12:07):
Our goal is to sort of figure out what y'all
are doing. As I explained earlier, it's a clean up.
Speaker 5 (12:12):
Yeah, okay, so I don't know what else you want
me to explain.
Speaker 1 (12:15):
How else do you want me to explain it? But
that's what we're here for. Okay, I'm gonna make it clear.
If you guys interfere, you will go to jail for interference.
Speaker 5 (12:21):
What if interfere means you delay us from cleaning and
in the way, anything that instructs from them cleaning or
disrupted from cleaning, you will go to jail.
Speaker 1 (12:30):
But I think everybody here is trying to help get
it good.
Speaker 5 (12:32):
But I want trying to be let me just finish.
I'm trying to be fair and I'm explaining it. So
in the case an event happens, which I'm not saying
it will, and I hope it doesn't, everybody's aware and
we're all on the same page, so there's no miscommunication
of what's going on and what's gonna happen in that sense.
So any obstruction, delaying the cleaning crew, anything like that,
(12:55):
you will go to jail.
Speaker 1 (12:56):
Point plane, Okay, cool.
Speaker 5 (12:59):
So who do you guys have that's over here that you.
Speaker 1 (13:01):
Need to help ill?
Speaker 5 (13:03):
Really, I don't know if you have, nobody's been you
guys can continue.
Speaker 4 (13:07):
But I'm not saying that there isn't anybody I like
this one.
Speaker 1 (13:11):
No one's here, so we're good with that.
Speaker 5 (13:13):
So let's stop loitering around, hanging around abody. You guys
can help. It's helping you about the way so we
can start cleaning.
Speaker 4 (13:21):
After we spoke with the sheriff, the sweep began and
I bought witness to the scene. Supporters from the for
the Young House out here helping with the moving operation
even though it's after seven, and then giving to go
ahead to start to sweep the Young house. The sheriffs
are ever increasingly are going to be approaching. They're holding
(13:45):
court with some of the people that are asking them
some questions. The tone is very matter of fact. It's helpful,
but this this what we call nights nasty. They told
that we're going to be arrested if we obstruct sanitation
or the operation in any way, and they want to
(14:05):
save a rattle very quickly. Is to start maybe kickoff
of confrontation. But there's people are getting coming together, helping
move as much as possible many of the stuff for
the other house. Interviewing unhoused people in the throes of
sweeps is usually something I don't do as a practice
(14:27):
from my own experience. You're stressed out, you're intimidated, and
based on how the sheriff was behaving, an unhoused person
would want to stay focused on moving and not angering
the person displacing them.
Speaker 1 (14:40):
But it was important to have.
Speaker 4 (14:41):
This discussion in Elmonte for the simple fact of gauging
folks understanding of the grants, past ruling and what their
next steps would be.
Speaker 1 (14:50):
I got a chance to speak with two long term residents.
Speaker 4 (14:52):
Who were being swept, Denise and Gabriel, about their feelings
in the moment as the bulldozers came out, more about
what rants passed will mean for them.
Speaker 1 (15:04):
Okay, so I have So what happened.
Speaker 6 (15:08):
I had already been asking for.
Speaker 5 (15:09):
You know, this is for already.
Speaker 6 (15:12):
It's been a long time. So they happen to see
me here and recognize me, and then they said you're
still here, and I said yes, and so they I
kind of pushed them a little more and pushed them
into the specific girl.
Speaker 1 (15:24):
But I don't know where she was.
Speaker 6 (15:25):
But they put me in a motel. Okay, thank god,
but for five days.
Speaker 1 (15:29):
So so what happens at.
Speaker 6 (15:30):
Five I don't know, you know, after five days, and
I just said to them I need to kind of
look vacuum. So this week the things, you know, and
so it's been like fresh resh wresh.
Speaker 4 (15:39):
They're stating that they came August twelfth to talk to
you guys, and they came up a few days before
to talk to you guys. And then they said that
they off work resources, which technically five days. That she
gets them off the hook. That they did offer something
they didn't offer you like housing of.
Speaker 6 (15:55):
Them, I asked them, and that the posting of the
information was not where everyone.
Speaker 7 (16:01):
Could see it.
Speaker 4 (16:01):
And okay, that's the that's the second thing, because I
didn't see any Yeah, so that's because.
Speaker 6 (16:07):
Like they've done that to us when we were on
the sidewalk there. But they they then of course they
did put our stuff they're supposed to, you know, like
for ninety days. But these guys are just that. Yeah,
that's what I want.
Speaker 4 (16:23):
To also ask you about because most most people that
are living out here because I lived out downtown, and
they do something similar to this.
Speaker 6 (16:32):
And all that. Ye had a comment, but they did
it to us last year? Was it last two years?
Speaker 1 (16:39):
So it was Christmas? Oh my god, the.
Speaker 6 (16:45):
Last time before it was Thanksgiving?
Speaker 1 (16:48):
Why did you do it on the holiday. I don't know,
I want to actually have.
Speaker 8 (16:53):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (16:54):
Have you guys heard of Grant's past, You know what
Branch Passes and Grant's Oregon, there was an unhoused community
like this year that was being targeted the same way
it's being targeted here. The Supreme Court passed the ruling
that says that they are allowed to sweep unhoused people
without offering in the services and you don't leave immediately,
(17:15):
that you're subjected to all of the criminal penalties, which
is why that notice has all of those legal violations
that they claim.
Speaker 1 (17:24):
That they are house people. Yeah, so what's your thoughts
on it?
Speaker 4 (17:27):
Do you think that's a good idea to start to
punish people that are living on the street, don't have
no resources.
Speaker 6 (17:31):
It's just I think it's it's been a long It's
it's been six years years than me.
Speaker 1 (17:37):
Yeah.
Speaker 9 (17:38):
Yeah, I've been here nine years. My bullies are nineteen years.
Speaker 1 (17:40):
Oh my goodness. Oh I'm sorry to hear that.
Speaker 9 (17:44):
And he's felt the same way.
Speaker 4 (17:46):
Yeah, how did how did you become unhoused? I got
sick and couldn't afford the bills, so you were feting.
Speaker 9 (17:52):
Bully was sick he was prategic, okay, and he was
dying head camp. You think you're so I can help
him out, exting eight years and then he passed away.
Speaker 6 (18:02):
You have in here nine years old.
Speaker 1 (18:03):
I'm sorry to hear that, young, What about you.
Speaker 6 (18:09):
I was served with restraint and ordered papers to get
me out of my home because I my mother didn't
like the fact that I inherited. But she changed the
paperwork and the cops worked for her to get me
out and I can't seem to get back in the
simple city is terrible with us, me and my my brother.
(18:29):
They don't like me because I went ahead and fought
for his right, I mean a brutality right after Rodney King.
That's when this happened. And so I won for my brother,
kept him out from you know, they nearly killed him.
So they harassed me like twenty three times, pulling me
over within two years. And that's a lot. And it
just goes on, you know, and put my being here.
(18:50):
I mean, you know, it's tough, but I don't get
harassed in here versus just if I just go out
to walk, go to the store. You know, you know,
it's awful. And I didn't even have a parking ticket,
so I don't trust them, but you know, that's how
that happened to me. And I wish I want to
go back home, but they don't seem to help me
(19:12):
to like reunification. It could be back to chop it off.
Speaker 4 (19:15):
They're my houses, you know what I mean.
Speaker 1 (19:18):
I'm so sorry to hear that.
Speaker 6 (19:19):
You don't have different stories.
Speaker 1 (19:24):
So what's your plan for if they run you out
of here? Because guys, are you guys going to come back?
Speaker 9 (19:28):
Or they have a legal right music, Well, they.
Speaker 1 (19:31):
Got grants pass.
Speaker 4 (19:32):
Now they don't have to necessarily offer any services if
they see you back here. But right, it doesn't matter that,
it doesn't matter. They're working in concert with the market
Corps of Engineers.
Speaker 1 (19:44):
So they don't want you on the land.
Speaker 4 (19:45):
And then when Grant's passes passed all over the country,
whether it's county or federal, that's what that's that's.
Speaker 6 (19:51):
What the loss of the things who's trying to get
you know, I was telling them, it's not going to
be the same like before.
Speaker 9 (19:58):
If you happen to you know, just you.
Speaker 4 (20:01):
Should on the strength of that Grant's pass is alleviated
and freed them to do what they've been wanting to do.
What has held them at bay was Martin versus Voice,
which was the Supreme Court at the time, stated it's
cruel and unusual punishment to start to criminalize on house
people for the physical exist. But now Grant's pass has
(20:21):
superseded that, that is erased that so now they have
the opportunity to do what they've been wanted to do
with The sheriffs came in this morning, ready to sweep.
Speaker 1 (20:30):
People, ready to arrest people.
Speaker 8 (20:35):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (20:35):
So that's one of the things too, is like what
do you what do you think? What can you do?
Speaker 6 (20:40):
Exactly? That's the there is nowhere to go, there is
nowhere after. There isn't this for me.
Speaker 3 (20:48):
I don't know.
Speaker 4 (20:51):
That's where it looked like I don't have no rights
for me.
Speaker 1 (20:54):
Yes, well I don't. I don't want to hold you
too long. My name is THEO.
Speaker 4 (20:59):
Thank you very much for your time, and you guys
say say hopefully I'll try to follow up and see
what you guys and how you guys do. Thank you
so much to Denise and Gabriel forved time. Sometime later,
I caught up with the antagonists of this story, the
(21:19):
core of engineers that coordinated the sweep itself. They feigned
the ignorance about Grant's past, they feigned the ignorance about
the escalation of the sweeps. In earlier times, this statement
would have had the same eerie import it has today.
Speaker 1 (21:34):
I was just doing my job. So what does the
arm corp of Engineers do?
Speaker 4 (21:41):
And why was this such an urgency to remove these
other houseman remembers?
Speaker 1 (21:45):
Since I believe August why movement? Because there are.
Speaker 4 (21:48):
Very limited resources that are available in the city. We
are in an unhoused crisis. We are also in a
heat wave. I mean why, I'm just still trying to
understand what is the urgency for them to move today?
Where could have been?
Speaker 1 (22:00):
So this is actually an ongoing thing.
Speaker 4 (22:02):
We've been doing cleanups all year. This is not the
only location.
Speaker 1 (22:08):
We've been doing multiple cleanups.
Speaker 4 (22:10):
All across Despite the weather advisories, you guys still do them.
Speaker 8 (22:15):
So we can't speak to why the scheduling is what
it is. Obviously we aren't the ones who made that decision.
We were told when and where to be places and
that's why we're here. As far as we can answer
more questions about what the Army Corps.
Speaker 1 (22:28):
Of Engineers is and what they do.
Speaker 8 (22:30):
So the Army Corps of Engineers and the Los Angeles
District is primarily in charge of the flood risk management,
you know, controlling floodwaters come down from the hillsides and
the mountains around us. There's catastrophic floods in the nineteen
thirties that wiped out a lot of downstream communities, so
a lot of deaths, a lot of destruction, a lot
(22:51):
of impacted the economy.
Speaker 1 (22:53):
So that's why the.
Speaker 8 (22:55):
Army Corps of Engineers came through. After the state and
local governments couldn't figure it out, federal government stepped in
created these channels and levy systems to control those massive
flood events and get it all the ocean as quick
as possible. So flood risk management is a primary mission
in our area, Environmental stewardship and protection, recreation. Army Corps
(23:18):
of Engineers owns the floodplaining areas and they release it
out to cities, counties.
Speaker 4 (23:23):
The golf course behind us, Yeah, it's all in the
golf course the land. We own the land, but it's leased,
so they're they're the managing entity.
Speaker 8 (23:32):
So with your narrows, that whole complex, that's all floodplain,
and it's all been leased out to the to the county,
you know other places, you know.
Speaker 1 (23:41):
Like Spulving the dam.
Speaker 8 (23:43):
Yeah, that whole complex that's leased out to the city,
Santa Fe Dam locally. So all these you know, construction
projects that the Army Corps did initially to control the
flood areas. Obviously, we're seasonal, we don't always get those
hundred thousand year floods or whatever. It's avable to be
used in the meantime for recreation purposes, and it has
(24:03):
actually benefited Los Angeles area to give us white swaths
of green space that would otherwise just be crowded with
urban population.
Speaker 4 (24:12):
So we'd be urban population, you mean, like be on
house community.
Speaker 8 (24:16):
The skyscrapers, houses, industrial complexes.
Speaker 1 (24:20):
Urban sprawl is more what I'm talking about.
Speaker 8 (24:23):
So, you know, if you think of all the recreation
and green areas that we have in the area, Army
Corps of Engineers has a big majority of it, and
most people don't know it because we're just a little
label on that sign as you drive through.
Speaker 4 (24:35):
My question is too, because you make the French of
you guys have been doing these weeks all year. Did
grants pass have anything to do with escalating or or
speeding up you guys's timeline or is there I'm.
Speaker 1 (24:45):
Not familiar with.
Speaker 8 (24:50):
We do this across jurisdictions. We were in Newport Beach
an assault marsh projected habitat just a couple of weeks ago,
La County, river Side County, Orange County, San Bordino County.
And that's just a portion of our Los Angeles district
in southern California. We also cover most of Arizona, part
(25:11):
of the bat At Utah as well, So you also
covered Utah as well, just the southern part of Utah there.
Speaker 1 (25:17):
But yeah, so we have oh okay.
Speaker 8 (25:20):
Yeah, so our Los Angeles district isn't just Los Angeles,
it's the southern California Southwest Full Corridor basically.
Speaker 4 (25:29):
Okay, So as you can see, this has caused some
quite disruption trying to move people's lives here. Yeah, just
you know, people are trying to survive and it's a
pacting from the federal to the local and I just
don't understand if they come back, will you guys redoup
this again or because there's no really no place to go.
(25:51):
I mean to be honest, because since Branch past has passed.
There has been cities and states have been stepping up
trying to remove on house people, and they have their
limited resources. They don't know where, you know, they jump
to the county or they go to the federal. Then the
federal can jump on and then like for example, caltrans
is moving unhoused people, the city is moving unhoused people,
(26:13):
and they make this very blanket statement of their offering services.
But the services are innative with for just like this,
this housing crisis. AM just just curious what's the end
game because you guys going to be like adult chasing
this tail.
Speaker 1 (26:26):
It's not going to stop.
Speaker 8 (26:28):
I sympathize to that point of view. I just I
don't have a good answer for you.
Speaker 4 (26:32):
From your standpoint.
Speaker 9 (26:34):
We have to follow up.
Speaker 6 (26:34):
We're reinterrupted to do also.
Speaker 7 (26:36):
And honestly, you know where where some of these places are.
It's they're putting themselves at risk. All No, it's a
safety answer.
Speaker 4 (26:45):
Well, being on the house is a safety risk with
a lot of things that's going on, you know, just
be I don't think house people appreciate the difficulties to
survive out here in the elements and trying to protect
themselves they are in dangered species from the human populace
that didn't receive it, So that argument can be made
as well, speaking from my whole personal experience.
Speaker 8 (27:07):
So yeah, I understood any more questions for us, sir,
I think we're gonna get on the other side there.
Speaker 1 (27:12):
Thank you, Thank you very much, all right, thank you.
Speaker 4 (27:21):
I hope taking this incident in will lead to more
information being shared and gazed among our activists and mutual
ad groups about the matter of Grant's past. Are we
behaving in a reactive way or are we behaving ignorantly
of what grant past means versus what Martin v.
Speaker 1 (27:40):
Boise meant.
Speaker 4 (27:46):
When we come back, I will speak with ACOU lawyer
caf Rogers to get guidance and insight on the reality
of Grant's past.
Speaker 1 (28:00):
Welcome back to Weedian House.
Speaker 4 (28:02):
It is my pleasure to have a returning guest on
the show, caf Rogers, who is now a staff attorney
at the ACLU.
Speaker 1 (28:11):
Here's our talk.
Speaker 7 (28:14):
It's so good to be back with you THEO on
this amazing podcast, and you just do incredible work and
inspire me and really good to be back here with you.
Speaker 1 (28:23):
Such a nice thing to say. I don't want to
be crying on here. You should do that. I got
my box of tissues and all. No, I hope.
Speaker 7 (28:32):
But yeah, So I think the last time that we
were on here together was a while back. I think
we were talking to know your rights stuff back and yeah,
I was representing on house folks and activists and still
doing similar work just for ACLU of Southern California. And now, yeah,
I get to work on what's called the Dignity for
(28:54):
All Projects, and that's a project where we protect and
advance the dignity of unhoused folk folks through both litigation
and also advocacy work and basically fight for the fundamental
human right to housing because housing is a human right.
And also we sue cities and we sue beliefs when
they violate unhoused people's civil rights. So that's what I've
(29:16):
been working on lately.
Speaker 4 (29:17):
I was going to say, because I think I remember
reading briefly about something in Santa Bernardino where you evolved
with that well lawsuit in ACLU.
Speaker 1 (29:24):
Can you tell us a little bit about that.
Speaker 7 (29:26):
Yeah, Yeah, that lawsuit is ongoing. That's called Tyson versus
the City of San Bernardino, and it's I mean you
know how these things play out, and just about every
city where there's encampment removals or raids where cops and
city officials come in and displace people, destroy people's things.
(29:46):
So this was a case about that, about these raids,
and basically we sued the city of San Bernardino on
behalf of five unhoused people and then a mutual aid organization.
And what was happening is the city was coming through
and destroying everything that people had. People's you know, essential property.
(30:07):
They're tense. One of our clients lost the last photograph
of his mom that he ever had after she passed away.
You know, people's ashes, medicines. One of our clients had
a walker destroyed. So that was one issue is just that,
you know, the summary destruction of property, which we know
is really really common. But the sort of novel aspect
(30:27):
of the case is the disability rights piece. As you
know a lot of folks have disabilities and cities just
trample on their disability rights all the time, and so
this case said that these encampment raids unduly burdened people
with disabilities because it's much harder if you end up
in a ravine or a riverbed or a flood channel,
(30:48):
and you're trying to be in a wheelchair or a
walker and trying to move. And then also when you've got,
you know, ten minutes to move all your stuff, pack
up everything, how are you going to do that if
you have a serious disability, whether that's mental health disability,
whether that's physical disability. And in good news, the court
actually agreed with us on this case, and in January
(31:10):
we got a preliminary injunction that barred any displacement of
any unhoused people throughout the city of San Bernandino. And
that preliminary injunction.
Speaker 4 (31:17):
Is still in effect even with Grant's pass, even with
grants pass.
Speaker 1 (31:21):
Good Good, You're.
Speaker 4 (31:23):
Touching on so many awesome points that I was over
in Elmonte last weekend and I went and reported on it,
and I'm not in Superman's shape. I'm not twenty years old,
and it was difficult for me one because of the heat.
It's bofering my internal injuries, and then also just for
me to just walk and navigate because there's this steep
(31:44):
incline because it's right near the wash, and you're mentioning
something that I don't hear much of it is like
the disability aspect of it affects people and sweeps. And
I'm so encouraged to hear that when you say that,
but please continue.
Speaker 1 (31:57):
I didn't mean to interrupt.
Speaker 7 (31:59):
Yeah, I'm so glad that you brought up al Montea.
I was just hearing from some activists who were on
the ground there and it sounds like it was absolutely
horrific what happened.
Speaker 1 (32:08):
Yes, it was, yes, but.
Speaker 7 (32:10):
People had really well established homes that they had built
that were just completely bulldozed and destroyed.
Speaker 4 (32:16):
I came during when they did the sweep, and then
I deliberately came Sunday to show the after effects.
Speaker 1 (32:23):
And there has been seeing in.
Speaker 4 (32:24):
Footage of people who have had their homes bombed or
looking like a third world country in the respect that
things have been disarrayed.
Speaker 1 (32:33):
It looked exactly like that.
Speaker 4 (32:34):
All you had to do is not scraped out the
Los Angeles and you would have thought you were in
a work throat world terrain. How they had left the
unhoused property and things that they had they hold deer.
And the thing that is is when I go out there,
it's such a difficult place to traverse.
Speaker 1 (32:51):
There is no even type of terrain.
Speaker 4 (32:54):
It's difficult for me because I have disabilities, and then
it was hard for me to navigate during the heat
and navigate just trying.
Speaker 1 (33:02):
To walk to just a small like almost for a block.
Speaker 4 (33:06):
If it was an even concrete based block, it would
have been easier, but this was not. It was uneven terrain.
There was the insects, it was the heat, and then
people trying to navigate that still older people that was
like at least sixty five and up trying to traverse
getting all this stuff down this crooked heel or if
it's way this steep incline with shopping carts, and you
(33:30):
can see why some of the young house just left
it because there is no way to have the assistance
that was necessary. I really wanted you to see what
we can talk about and what creative ways that we
could help the young house on the ground, and then
what can we do to make sure that they are
protected because this is a very vulnerable community. It's not
(33:52):
like we're here in downtown Los Angeles like on Little Tokyo,
where you can see the encampments and people can nimbias
can wave their angry fist and police immediately swarm This
is like the wild wild West.
Speaker 1 (34:05):
They just out here. They're not bothering anybody.
Speaker 4 (34:08):
Because you can't unless you are just actively looking for
unhoused people in this area.
Speaker 1 (34:12):
It's right behind the golf course.
Speaker 4 (34:14):
So unless you're a nimby that don't want to see
unhoused community members why you're setting off for your tea's,
then you have to really have an aggressive reason why
you bother people over at the Elmonty. So I just
am so encouraged to hear that. So any insights on this, Yeah, no, that.
Speaker 7 (34:32):
That just sounds so awful to you, And I think
what you're raising there's so many themes right, Like one
is why do people end up in these far corners.
It's not because they want to be in a riverbed,
it's not because anybody wants to be, you know, on
the side of a highway or something like that. People
go to these dangerous far reaches, and we've seen unhoused
(34:53):
folks who've gotten killed in some of these areas when
water breaches like these dams and stuff like that, and
people go there because they're not safe anywhere else, and
cops are literally chasing people from block to block. And
that's the only place that people have to go.
Speaker 4 (35:07):
And not to mention brush fires because I for the
respiratory thing, because that was what was bothering me. I
had to really not stay long because I can feel it.
I'm like, you know, it's one of the people that
feels that are affected by climate change are unhoused people,
especially with the brush fires, the heat waves that we having,
the cold spells, and we know these things and we
(35:28):
have to plan accordingly, which is why we have a
lot of stuff to be able to navigate these kind
of things where people house can go in get an
air conditioned or you know, bundle up on heat until
the bad weather advisory passes. You know, that's just another
aspect of another dimension that most house people don't understand.
You know, when you see things you don't understand, you judge.
(35:50):
But it's a very aggressive, hostile environment climate wise. And
also how people look at unhoused people.
Speaker 7 (36:00):
Yeah, and the temperatures this week, I mean we saw
like over one hundred degrees, which is going to get
more and more common and unhoused folks, so they talk
about you know, frontline community members and folks who contribute
the least to climate change, right like you know, using
the least amount of energy, contributing the least amount of
like carbon to the atmosphere, but then literally on the
(36:20):
front lines, you know, dying in the heat, experiencing you know,
wildfires and things like that, feeling the most effects of
anybody from climate change.
Speaker 1 (36:31):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (36:32):
So the next thing that I was noticing too when
I was there is that, you know, the aggressiveness of
law enforcement. And the thing of it is is like
they were so aggressive even to the legal observers. They
were forcing them out, and then they were making sure
that there was limit recording of the fact of how
they were destroying on house homes, and then to how
(36:55):
they manipulate the rules to make sure that they are
not being watched or observed legally on their behavior. They told,
for example, me and other people that were recording this,
that we were to observe maybe like two or three
miles away from things that are obstructed that we can't see.
(37:16):
And the thing with it is it's being enforced by
that rule that they can't safely and they're using the
safety conversation. They're using the safety narrative to push to
push people out, and there's no really oversight in pushing
back on. When there's a sheriff that's aggressive, there's no
other supervisors to come and tell him, hey, cut out
(37:37):
this aggression, because now you're excalating the situation. We recently
seeing the incident where there was aggressive law enforcement where
a football player. But it's like this is open season
when there's unhoused people of color, particularly that there is
no one that's stepping in and says we're not here
to be aggressive. We're not here telling them that we're
going to arrest them. And you make them very anxious
(38:00):
because people that have their own belongings have a right
to be upset about what's going on to them. And
if you push them and say you know you don't
like it, you know you can go to jail, and
then told them if they move in a timely manner,
and you got sixty five year old people with trying
to move their things. Leaves a bad taste in my mouth,
but it also gives rise to more aggression, particularly with
(38:23):
the Los Angeles Sheriff's Department.
Speaker 7 (38:25):
Yeah, absolutely, and THEO you know this better than anyone
that you know. We have a right to photograph and
film police in public places, you know, and there's been
some litigation over this. There's a case called Martinez versus Fresno,
and in that case it was exactly the same thing
where beliefs and you know, sanitation workers are trying not
(38:45):
to have activists film them, and you know even journalists
film and the cord isshuy to preliminary junctions. So if
poliefs are trying not to have folks photograph and film,
that's probably a violation of their rights. I mean, you know,
within reason, in a public space, you have the right
to photograph and film. So if you know, I know,
this was recently an issue also with lex from La
(39:08):
Taco and City of Los Angeles. So yeah, we need
to push back when cops don't allow people to photograph
and film, because that is your constitutional right in public.
Speaker 4 (39:18):
But here's another example of how they're trying to violate
people's civil rights here in city hall. Most recently they
are trying to limit the protests of Palestinian protests, put
them in what they call bubbles and things. So it
is not so far off the realm of how they
are slowly trying to encroach on your civil rights, but
trying to do it in a way that they don't
(39:38):
get the knuckles tapped forward. We'll continue this conversation after
this break.
Speaker 1 (39:49):
And we're back.
Speaker 4 (39:51):
The Grants passed with such a monumental decision, and I
wanted to take the time to say, what's the difference
between Martin versus Boise and Grant's pass.
Speaker 7 (40:03):
Yeah, So Martin versus Boise was a really important decision.
It came down in twenty eighteen, and basically it said
that under the Cruel and Unusual Punishments clause of the
Eighth Amendment, criminal penalties for life sustaining conduct, so like
you know, sitting down, lying down, just basically existing in public,
(40:24):
that you couldn't criminalize that under the Eighth Amendment because
that's cruel and unusual. People need to sleep, they need
to walk, they need to put their things down on
the sidewalk, and when you're on house, the only place
you have to do that is in public spaces. And
so that was what Martin b. Boise did, and then
Grant's pass extended it a little bit to like tickets,
you know, like a civil ticket. Also, the court talked
(40:48):
about the importance of having blankets and things like that
to keep warm. So it's a little bit further than
Martin b. Boise, But similar concept, right, just it's cruel
and unusual to penalize people just for existing. Unfortunately, in
Grant's pass, this new conservative majority Supreme Court has said
it's no longer cruel and unusual under the Eighth Amendment
(41:09):
to punish people for existing outside and having a blanket
and sitting down, lying down, things like that.
Speaker 4 (41:15):
And Santa Monica is voting to ban pillows and blankets
in their area as a result of Grant's pass.
Speaker 1 (41:22):
That's an example too.
Speaker 7 (41:24):
So yeah, what one thing we're trying to do is
track all these cities and counties that are starting to
pass these terrible new policies basically criminalizing camping, criminalizing setting
things down on the sidewalk, and also calling for more
encampment raids for police to come through and just displace people.
So we're seeing two things as one, new policies being passed,
(41:48):
and then the second thing is new practices where police
are just doing more raids on people's encampments. So we're
trying our best to just track it because there's so
much going on all throughout the state, both with Grant
pass and now with our governor with his executive order
and all his rhetoric that's making things so much worse.
Speaker 1 (42:07):
I agree.
Speaker 4 (42:07):
It's like I've been trying to do a kind of
returning or recurring kind of thing on my on House
News about Grant's past, because one of the things too
is though the aggressive, aggressive sweeps and the raids are
going on, it's like we are kind of on the
back foot in a respect, like even in activism, we
(42:27):
are not really fully appreciating everything that's going on with
Grant's past. Why this is so different. One of the
things about El Monte is that I'm trying to even
get the activists as well as the young housed community
to understand this is different. This is not Martin versus Boise.
This is going to be an ugly kind of progression.
(42:47):
It's just like you know, when Regulus raids happen on house,
people just come back, but they are becoming aggressive.
Speaker 1 (42:54):
They're saying that they're going to arrest you, and they.
Speaker 4 (42:57):
Have the power of the authority to do that now,
and that's going to weigh very differently than it is
is when you just had maybe Martin versus Boise, you
had it more of a fighting chance, You had ways
to stem the tide of aggression. But now this is
a little bit different. You know, I've taken a list
of places right now, I've got at least eleven places
(43:20):
that have picked up sweeps, and I keep getting more
and more notifications of and make me I want to
you have to go there. They'll check it out or
talk with the people there and figure out what's going
on and how to support them and how to keep
the conversation connected with the activism circle in order for
us to not feel like we are isolated and alone,
because that's another thing. It's very isolating what they're doing,
(43:42):
and they know that we are not really ready or
we're fighting Martin versus Boisese battles and we're not fighting
the Grant's past battle and by the time we do that,
they will be, you know, full blown sweeps and it
to be probably a very ugly kind of steamrolling that's
going to be going on, particularly because the World Cup
is in twenty twenty five and in the Olympics here
(44:05):
is going to be twenty twenty eight.
Speaker 7 (44:07):
Yeah. No, I think that's a really good point that
the sweeps isolate people and make it a lot harder
to build power, make it a lot harder for you know,
folks to connect with mutual aid groups and really you know,
rise up and organize. And I think that's that's definitely
by design, you know. And I think you're right that
right now a lot of the work seems really reactive,
(44:27):
and yeah, how can we get out ahead? Because we
know that even with Martin B. Boise, I mean we
we saw the same kind of raids, we saw property destruction.
So you know, the law and paper only gets us
so far. You know, the lived reality is so much
different that people's rights are violated every single day, even
you know, even when we do have these good core decisions.
Speaker 4 (44:50):
So I, like I said, you know, these conversations are
necessary and to be had. One of the things is
like when you say about the know your rights and
when we started off, do you think, no, your rights
is still applicable into what the grants pass era.
Speaker 7 (45:03):
Yeah. Absolutely, I think it's really important for folks to
know their rights because you still do have rights.
Speaker 4 (45:10):
Well, it's so important to know that because like what
grant's passed, you know, it's not be the I guess
the death nail. I don't want to make it sound
like I'm trying to bring the Cassandra, the arbitry of doom.
But you know, there is some things that we do
need to be aware of. We can't just go blindly
off with our sorts and our shields and get blown up.
So what things don't know? Your rights that we should
(45:32):
be aware of.
Speaker 7 (45:33):
Well, one of the things I think is the most
powerful is you have the right to photograph and film
police in public and whenever you're being harassed by law enforcement,
whenever you have an interaction with law enforcement, document that
you know, get that, get the officer's knee and get
their badge number, put them on video, you know, and
being careful if you're filming, you know, don't film the
(45:54):
unhoused folks in an encampment, film the police officers who
are harassing them, so that you know, you have your
focus on the law enforcement. Also, police and cities don't
have the right to destroy unhouse people's personal.
Speaker 1 (46:07):
Property, even with grants pass.
Speaker 7 (46:09):
Even with grants pass. Yeah, you have your Fourth Amendment
right to your property. You have your Fourth Amendment right
against unreasonable search and seizure. That still completely applies. So
if a city destroys somebody's property, that is a violation
of their rights and you have the right to your
personal property. Also, there should be notice of these encampment
(46:29):
raids under the due process clause on the fourteenth Amendment,
and so that still applies. So in general, you should,
you know, always have a notice if there's some kind
of cleanup or some kind of encampment raid come in,
you should get that notice. They're usually put up. It's
you know, forty eight hours, seventy two hours, whatever it
is in your area. Also, you have the right to
disability accommodation. So if you're disabled, if you have you know,
(46:51):
mental health or physical health disabilities, you have a right
to a reasonable accommodation and that applies across the board
for the government under Title II of the Americans with Disability.
Speaker 4 (47:00):
So does that include if they tell you that you
have thirty minutes to sleep or they have like ten
minutes to sweep and you need a disability accommodation, can
you ask for that and they must stay granted or
didn't they just say no, you had noticed since August
you could have moved this do in or whatever it's
that still applicable there.
Speaker 7 (47:18):
You should absolutely ask for a disability accommodation, and you
know you can ask at the time of notice. You
can ask, you know, at the actual encampment rate when
it's going down. You know, say I have a disability,
I'm asking for a reasonable accommodation. You don't have to
say what your disability is, just what the limitation is.
So you know, I'm having trouble, I can't move everything.
(47:40):
I need help. Here's what I need, here's the reasonable
accommodation I need. And the government's obligated to respond to
your reasonable accommodation requests. They don't always have to grant,
you know, everything, if it's if it's a fundamental alteration
of the program, they don't always have to grant it.
But they do have to engage with you. And that's
part of your rights under the ADA. And so you
want to adopt a minute too. You want to if you
(48:01):
do it spoken word, you can film it. If you
write it down, that's always good because then you have
a paper trail, you know talking you know, who did
you talk to and if they if they're giving you trouble,
you know, ask for a supervisor, but definitely ask for
that reasonable accommodation. And then you know, unhoused folks have
the same rights in police encounters as anybody else. So
(48:22):
you have the right against unlawful searches. For example, so
if the cop says, hey, can I look in your ten?
Speaker 6 (48:27):
Hey?
Speaker 7 (48:27):
Can I look in your backpack? Can I look in
your pockets? Whatever? You know, I don't consent to this search, officer,
Am I free to leave? You also don't have to
answer officers questions. You know, if you are being detained
or if you're under arrest, it's good to give your
ID just for you know, for processing and everything beyond that.
You know, the less you say, the better. You don't
(48:48):
want to answer officers questions. They are not your friends,
they're they're not there to be buddy buddy, and you know,
so the less you say to the police, the better
you do not you know, and you can say it calmly.
You can say, you know, officer, I exercise my right
to silence. I don't want to speak and I don't
want to answer questions. So yeah, on house, folks absolutely
have rights, no matter what our governor would lead us
(49:10):
to believe.
Speaker 1 (49:11):
Excellent.
Speaker 4 (49:12):
I think that's an excellent punctuation mark for this conversation,
because I believe that there was a lot there's a
lot of anxiety after Grants passed, and I want us
as a community to realize all hope is not lost.
There's still things that we can resentment ourselves and reground ourselves,
but also understanding that there's twofold things. We have to
(49:33):
educate the un housed on what's going on because I
think sometimes because in my own experience when I was
in house dealing with heat waves, in trying to deal
with the exhaustion and other health issues, it's just like
it's just sometimes could be too overwhelming, it'd be too
much to bear too psychologically. But we have to let
them know that this is this is going on. But
even though this is going on, there are the different
(49:55):
things that we can do to protect ourselves and it
may take a process and in letting our activists know
as well that this is a difference between Martin v.
Speaker 1 (50:04):
Boise era and Grants passed.
Speaker 4 (50:05):
There's some similarities, but there's definitely some sticking points that
we need to, you know, be aware of. But also
we need to be really documenting and showing the aggression
because it's going to pick up, because it's picking up
in every other place in California, I mean literally and
I can, I dare say that, you know, other places
that I'm not focusing on readily yet it's also happening too.
Speaker 7 (50:30):
Yeah, absolutely, absolutely.
Speaker 4 (50:32):
That I think I covered everything. Did I miss anything?
Speaker 6 (50:35):
Well?
Speaker 7 (50:36):
I feel like we could talk forever obviously any time.
This is not you know, we can just pick this
up any day.
Speaker 4 (50:44):
Yes, yes, And I'm trying to be respectful of your
time and all, but also I'd like to invite you back,
you know, to talk about this the conversation again and
we could, you know, pick up on the progress or regress,
if you will, on what's going on with this Grand
Pass and the sweeps and any other exciting work that
you're working on.
Speaker 1 (51:04):
Is that the Dignity project?
Speaker 7 (51:05):
Yeah, Dignity for All projects?
Speaker 1 (51:07):
Yep, oh, Dignity for All. That's awesome.
Speaker 4 (51:09):
You know, I could say, I'm so excited to hear
that your guys are on the front front of that
and you guys are doing great work.
Speaker 1 (51:15):
Thank you very much, Calves. I appreciate it so much.
Speaker 7 (51:19):
That was amazing. I feel like we can literally talk forever.
Speaker 4 (51:22):
So yeah, thanks to Calf for her time, and you
can learn more about her work with the Southern California
ACOU at acousocal dot org. And that's it for ELMNTY
for now. Remember this is a developing story. The unhoused
(51:44):
people displaced that day will not just disappear, and I
will continue to follow up and see how they are
navigating the new reality of Grant's past. And as always,
please like and subscribe, and if you like to share
your story on widian Howse, please reach out to me
at widian Howse on Instagram or email me at widianhows
(52:06):
at gmail dot com. Thank you again for listening and
may we again meet in the light of understanding. Whedian
Howes is a production of iHeartRadio. It is written, posted,
and created by me Theo Henderson, our producers Jbie Loftus,
Dailey Fager, Katieficial, and Lyra Smith. Our editor is Adam
(52:31):
Wand and our loco art is also by Katieficial.
Speaker 1 (52:35):
Thanks for listening.
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