November 30, 2023 • 41 mins
Libby’s mom Cindy hires a private investigator to uncover new clues. Investigative journalist Melissa Jeltsen visits the motel for herself. And Libby’s friends open up about the last week of her life.
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Speaker 1 (00:02):
Originals.
Speaker 2 (00:03):
This is an iHeart original.
Speaker 3 (00:09):
This story might be hard to hear. There's detailed talk
of suicide and violence, but we think it's important not
to gloss over the reality of what happened to Libby Caswell.
Please take care while listening.
Speaker 4 (00:25):
December fourth, that was our last visit together.
Speaker 3 (00:30):
Colleen Huff was Libby's parent, aid a professional assigned by
the state to monitor her visits with her son's eve
and help her work towards regaining custody. Each week that
meet at Cindy's house. Collen tells me that Libby would
often arrive at these visits excited and happy, as it
was the only time she would get to see ZV.
(00:51):
But on this date, December fourth, a week before her death,
Libby is in a state of panic.
Speaker 4 (00:57):
She was like really upset, and she was shaking, and
she she looked at her appearance, I mean, she was
just a mess, and you know, I knew something was very,
very different.
Speaker 3 (01:11):
Colleen's instincts are right. After some coaxing, Libby tells her
that just a few hours earlier, Devan attacked her on
the bed, strangling her. They had been staying with one
of Devan's family friends, Gary Stevens, who happened to witness
the incident.
Speaker 5 (01:28):
So when I.
Speaker 6 (01:28):
Opened up the door, I seen Devan was on top
of Lip and he was choking her.
Speaker 3 (01:37):
Back at her mom's house. Libby tries to calm down.
Speaker 4 (01:42):
She was shaking, so I knew she was afraid.
Speaker 3 (01:46):
For years, Libby had kept Devan's abuse mostly hidden, only
sharing bits and pieces with certain friends, But today is different.
Telling Colleen about the strangulation is the only time I
know of where she actually reported an act of violence
to someone in a position of authority, and Colleen immediately
jumps into action.
Speaker 4 (02:08):
I called all the shelters in Kansas City to try
to find her a safe place to go.
Speaker 3 (02:15):
While Colleen's making phone calls, Libby tries to push aside
her distress and connect with zav. She cooks him pancakes
and changes his outfit, and eventually Colleen lines up a
bed for Libby at a domestic violent shelter run by
the Hope House.
Speaker 4 (02:33):
I found a shelter with availability. I cleared the rest
of my schedule after the supervised visit. After she got
to spend time with her son, she was going to
go with me. I felt like she needed to be
in a safe place.
Speaker 3 (02:53):
There's a food through win.
Speaker 7 (03:01):
So what.
Speaker 3 (03:09):
From iHeart Podcast. I'm Melissa Jelson and this is what
happened to Libby Caswell.
Speaker 7 (03:17):
Cross.
Speaker 8 (03:21):
I can't tell you a single time at night that
she'd ever have her blinds up, and because she always
was looking over her shoulder always.
Speaker 9 (03:28):
This is not a homicide. This is a suicide polsuse.
Speaker 10 (03:32):
He wanted to do was clean up and get away
from him.
Speaker 2 (03:34):
She started jumping through all the hoops. She was like,
I know what I need to do.
Speaker 6 (03:38):
Now was the last time I'm seeing I couldn't even
tell you which direction he went.
Speaker 1 (03:44):
Somebody dropped the ball.
Speaker 3 (03:50):
Or Chapter five, The Fight of Your Life. December fourth,
(04:18):
twenty seventeen was supposed to be a happy day for
the Caswell family. Libby's sister Natalie had just given birth
to her first child, and this was the day she
was coming home from the hospital.
Speaker 11 (04:30):
We pulled up to the house and my dad helped
me carry you all my bags and stuff in the door.
Speaker 3 (04:37):
But the welcome Natalie gets from her family is not
at all what she imagined. Libby is at Cindy's house
and she's deeply distraught.
Speaker 11 (04:45):
As soon as I walked in the door. She was
standing in the living room with my mom and Colleen,
and she was just crying, like really upset about something.
And at the time, I didn't know why she was crying,
and I started hearing what they were talking about. They
were talking about he did something to her and that's
(05:05):
why she was so upset, and so I was like,
what's going on? And so they started telling me about
how she was late to her visit because they were
at Devin's stepdad's house and he heard them arguing and
walked into the bedroom where they were staying, and Devin
was on top of Libby, choking her.
Speaker 3 (05:27):
Despite the circumstances, Libby tries her best to celebrate her sister.
Speaker 11 (05:33):
We were in the kitchen and she was asking me
questions about the baby and my birth and all that.
Speaker 3 (05:40):
But Libby can't hide her fear over what had just
happened to her and what might happen next.
Speaker 11 (05:48):
Her voice was shaky, and I was like, why don't
you just come home. I don't like we could tell
him you're not here. She just kept saying like, no,
I can't do that. I said, well, why give me
a reason, why can't you do that I don't understand,
and she said, well, because you don't understand what would
happen if I stay here, he would know I'm here,
(06:11):
and it's not safe for you, and it's not safe
for Zay. You don't know what he would do, and
I have to stay with him to keep him away.
Speaker 3 (06:20):
But there is another option, the domestic Violent Shelter. Colleen
had found Libby a placement at a nearby shelter run
by the Hope House. It felt like a good compromise
and escape from Devin that kept her and her family safe.
Libby agrees to go after her visit with Zaev, but
there's a catch. Colleen would have to escort Libby to
(06:42):
the police station first, then the police would take Libby
to the shelter. This is the standard protocol for the
intake process at Hope House. The CEO of Hope House
told me that the police are involved in order to
protect staff and new clients during what is often a
time and highly charged moment. But in Libby's experience, involving
(07:05):
the police meant risking a fine or arrest. It meant
being called uncooperative, a nuisance.
Speaker 4 (07:13):
At the end of the visit, she changed her mind
and decided not to go.
Speaker 3 (07:19):
Libby didn't say why. Nobody knows if it was her
distrust of police, if she was worried about Devon's reaction,
or something else. And it's possible that if Libby had
spoken up about her hesitations, there could have been a
different solution.
Speaker 4 (07:35):
And I tried to talk her into it, but that was.
Speaker 8 (07:40):
Well.
Speaker 4 (07:41):
If if I had to do it all over again,
I would have thrown her over my shoulders and put
her in my car and made her followed three way
that but she didn't, and that's the last time I
ever saw her.
Speaker 3 (07:55):
Libby leaves her mom's house alone. At the end of
her visit. She walks out of the front door and
drives off in her black Forward Fusion.
Speaker 11 (08:04):
I just assumed that I would see her again on Monday,
so I kind of went about, you know, my life
with my newborn. I think about that a lot. How
I don't have any pictures of them together. They only
met one time, and didn't really think much of it
because I thought she'd be back.
Speaker 3 (08:23):
But Libby never made it to that next scheduled visit
with Zave the following Monday. That was the day her
body was discovered. The next seven days marked the last
of Libby's life. It's hard to know exactly where she
was or what she was doing, because she didn't see
(08:45):
her family again. Her phone, which would have offered insight
into her whereabouts and communications, was never retrieved by police,
but I've been able to gather bits and pieces of
what happened during those days from talking to others. At
some point, Libby reconnects with Devon. My guess is that
it was pretty soon after she left Cindy's house, and
(09:08):
it seems to me, based on how her family described
her behavior, that she had recently relapsed. The couple would
have had nowhere to stay. Gary had kicked them out.
Cindy refused to have Devon in her home. I heard
from some friends that they may have stayed in an
abandoned house and also rented a room at another motel
in town. On Thursday, four days before her death, Libby's
(09:32):
car is stolen, allegedly by an acquaintance. She manages to
get it back fairly quickly, but it's in rough shape.
And then one day that week I couldn't confirm exactly
which Devon has an encounter with a man at his
father's house, who accuses Devon of stealing his drugs. The
man's furious and reportedly ripping at Devon's shirt, pushing him around. Then,
(09:58):
on Sunday, the day before libby death, Devin and Libby
meet up for a few hours with Nathan, Libby's childhood friend.
They all drive around town in Libby's car, listening to
music and smoking pot. Nothing about this seems out of
the ordinary to Nathan.
Speaker 6 (10:14):
This is one of those days that I would have
never thought that they were arguing or anything. I mean,
it seems perfect. She was all about him and he
was all about her.
Speaker 3 (10:22):
Until they stop for gas and Devin goes into pay
and the second Libby is alone with her friend, her
cheerful demeanor drops.
Speaker 6 (10:30):
Libby don't get me and said, Nathan, I don't think
I feel safe with Devon anymore, like I don't. I
don't know. Something just seems off right now.
Speaker 3 (10:43):
In the brief moment they have together, Nathan offers to
have Libby stay with him, but she declines. Devin gets
back in the car and they're off again, and Libby
switches to how she'd been acting before, happy carefree. Hearing
Nathan's story, I'm struck by how raw this moment of
vulnerability is, especially for someone like Libby so practiced at
(11:08):
hiding what she's going through. It seems to me like
it's a cry for help.
Speaker 6 (11:14):
It was literally the night before she died, and she
waited until he went inside the Quick Trips to pay
for gas. I wish I could go back in time
and go stay with her at that hotel.
Speaker 3 (11:33):
Eventually, Libby and Devin drop Nathan back off at home
and continue on their journey. Around this time, on Sunday evening,
Cindy is worried about Libby and repeatedly sending her messages.
She wants to note if Libby is going to make
it to her scheduled appointment with Xavier and Colleen, her
parent aid. The following morning, she messages her, are you
(11:56):
going to be here? Colleen is expecting you At nine
point thirty. Libby replies, I know, Mom, I need to
be straight when I come see him. Those are the
last words Cindy would receive from her daughter. At some
point in the wee hours of Monday morning, Libby and
Devon arrive at the sports Stadium in along with their
(12:19):
friend Nick. They hang out in the parking lot for
a bit. There, they meet another guest, David Fristo. He
was the one who encouraged Devon to call nine one
one after Libby's death. In his conversation with police, Fristo
told them he hadn't interacted much with the couple when
they first arrived, except some friendly hellos. When I tracked
(12:41):
Fristo down five years later, though, he had more to
say hello, Hello, Hey, it's more.
Speaker 5 (12:49):
So Okay, I'm going to go outside on the porch.
Speaker 3 (12:52):
I asked Fristo to walk me through what he remembered
from his encounter with Devin, Libby and Nick. He'd been
asleep in his room and woken up by the sound
of people talking.
Speaker 5 (13:03):
The only reason I went out there and talked to
them because they was exactly right in front of my door,
my window, and they was talking so loud and making
so much racket that I just got up and went
out there, you know, because I'm thinking that they was
out there arguing them, but they wasn't. They was out
there just having fun talking.
Speaker 3 (13:21):
You weren't annoyed that they were like waking.
Speaker 5 (13:23):
You up when no, no, no, no, no, no, I don't,
I don't no, but uh, because it happens all the
time when you stay at a motel like that, because
there's always something going on.
Speaker 3 (13:36):
Fristoe told me that they all hung out for a
bit in the parking lot.
Speaker 5 (13:40):
I'm a person that'll talk to anybody. I'll talk to
a brick wall, you know. So I just went out
there and was talking and telling them. You know, we're
just talking about everything, anything and everything. We were talking
like what most men talk about, you know, sports and
stuff like that.
Speaker 1 (13:58):
We were talking about football, baseball.
Speaker 3 (14:01):
The Devin and the other guy next to him most
of the talking or was lippy as actively in the conversation,
not as much.
Speaker 5 (14:11):
She didn't really voice her opinion about anything really.
Speaker 3 (14:16):
Still, Fristo's impression of the couple was that they seemed fine,
good even I thought they was actually married.
Speaker 5 (14:24):
They both seemed really happy, I know that much.
Speaker 6 (14:26):
They wasn't arguing.
Speaker 5 (14:28):
You can count of sense if somebody's arguing and fighting,
but they It didn't feel that way to me.
Speaker 3 (14:35):
I can't help but think about how Libby also seemed
fine to Nathan, one of her close friends, until they
got a moment alone and her whole facade crumbled.
Speaker 4 (14:45):
It's hard to say, because people can put on a
good act, you know what I mean. I don't know.
Speaker 5 (14:51):
It's hard to judge people.
Speaker 3 (14:54):
I know Libby made at least one more attempt to
reach out for help.
Speaker 10 (14:58):
I may have been one of the last ones speak
to her on the phone.
Speaker 3 (15:01):
Anyway, At some point, when Devin was out of earshot,
she picked up her phone and called her friend Brian.
Speaker 10 (15:08):
Basically that phone call was her telling me that she
was at a hotel. Devin had taken her there, she
had met him there or something. I'm not really sure,
but she didn't feel safe and wanted me to come
pick her up. And it was a very brief call.
It probably didn't last more than two or three minutes,
but best of my recollection, she said, he's here, I
(15:32):
have to go.
Speaker 1 (15:32):
I'll call you back.
Speaker 10 (15:33):
I'll call you right back as soon as I can.
I was like, promise me, you're going to call me back,
and she said I promise and click and that was it.
And that was the last I spoke to her.
Speaker 3 (15:50):
In the summer of twenty twenty two, I found myself
standing in the parking lot of the sports Stadium in
probably pretty close to the same spot where nearly five
years earlier, Libby and Devon had chatted with David Fristo
before they checked in to Room three nineteen. The Sports
Stadium in sits directly on Highway forty in Independence, around
(16:12):
the corner from the stadium with the Kansas City Chiefs
play during football season, The motel can attract out of
town fans, who I imagine are sorely disappointed when they
pull up outside a yellowing block of dingy rooms that
look like they haven't been updated since the eighties. Google
reviews mentioned shady characters, dirty linen's, and frequent bug sidings,
(16:35):
But for the most part, the clientele aren't football fans.
They're locals with few other places to go. I knew
from reading police reports that the Independence Police Department was
often at the motel responding to nine one one calls
involving alleged drug sales, robberies, and assaults. As recently as
(16:55):
August twenty twenty three, a man was killed there. But
even so, I wanted to see it for myself, to
get a better sense of the place and potentially answer
some lingering questions about the crime scene. When I told
Cindy my plan to go, even in the middle of
the day, she advised that I should bring someone with me,
someone more physically intimidating, which is how I ended up
(17:19):
accompanied by a six foot two hundred pound private investigator
who carries a concealed weapon.
Speaker 1 (17:24):
I'm Jim Murray. I'm one of the founders of Star
Investigations LLC out of Jefferson City, Missouri. Been in a private
investigator for about no close to forty years now.
Speaker 3 (17:35):
Even with Jim Murray by my side, I was having
some serious second thoughts. As soon as we pulled into
the parking lot, I felt eyes on us. People were
peeking through the curtains, opening their doors to look at
our shiny rental SUV, the nicest in the lot. Almost
immediately I saw a drug sale take place through a
car window.
Speaker 4 (18:00):
The keys.
Speaker 3 (18:03):
Jim Murray and I didn't linger to take in the scene.
We headed into the office and asked to rent room
three nineteen. Now, requesting a specific room was a pretty
weird ask. All the rooms are essentially identical and equally dismal,
And sure enough, the motel clerk told us room three
nineteen was dirty and handed his keys to another room instead.
(18:26):
There was an awkward moment of silence as Mariy and
I looked at each other, and then, without skipping a beat,
Maurray came up with a wild, concocted story about how
we were a couple and that specific room held special
memories for us. We wanted to return there for old
times sake. I don't know what the clerk made of
this explanation, but eventually, when he saw we weren't going anywhere,
(18:50):
he said, if we really wanted that room, we could
come back in twenty minutes and it would be ready.
So we drove around for a bit, then came back
and got the keys, fill the old fashioned kind with
three nineteen written on a cheap plastic tag. Holding them
in my hands, I couldn't help but imagine Libby doing
this exact same thing. Jim Murray, my producer, and I
(19:12):
grabbed the audio equipment and some notebooks and shuffled inside,
and immediately there was a rapping at the door.
Speaker 12 (19:21):
What excuse me?
Speaker 9 (19:25):
What?
Speaker 1 (19:27):
Okay, We're just gonna be a minute to drop off
a tanks. Patures give us minutes, okay, thank you.
Speaker 3 (19:35):
The motel clerk told us we were only allowed to
have two people in the room. You can hear in
my voice that I was nervous about their intrusion, but
it wasn't just that. Standing inside Room three nineteen felt
creepier than I had expected. Honestly, I wanted to get
the hell out of there, and so we moved through
the room quickly, taking photos and jotting down details that
(19:58):
we thought might be useful.
Speaker 1 (19:59):
L see that this door has been repair or replaced,
going and Yelsey wanted to see that.
Speaker 3 (20:08):
Jim Murray wanted to take some measurements of the bathroom
where Libby died. He had doubts that Libby, at five
foot five, would have been able to take Devon's belt,
feed it over the top of the door, and then
close it.
Speaker 12 (20:22):
I understand is that the pressure is on this This
just falls out, put the belt there and super close,
he said.
Speaker 1 (20:35):
I said, I don't think it would worked.
Speaker 11 (20:37):
I don't.
Speaker 1 (20:37):
Well, maybe it will.
Speaker 13 (20:38):
As I'm wrong.
Speaker 11 (20:40):
I just don't.
Speaker 1 (20:41):
You'd have to just be a real contortionist.
Speaker 14 (20:43):
To do it.
Speaker 3 (20:45):
We have planned to spend some time in the room
discussing the case, but I changed my mind and suggested
we leave right away.
Speaker 12 (20:52):
Is there anything else we want to do here? Should
we hit it?
Speaker 1 (20:55):
That's all I needed? You know what you've seen it
inside and at yourself.
Speaker 3 (20:59):
We took the measurements, we packed up, piled back into
the car, and once we were out of the parking lot,
I brought out the recorder.
Speaker 8 (21:07):
So we were just at the hotel room or the
motel room where Livy died. And it was very, very small,
you just enough room for a bed, and there were
two large mirrors, one facing the bed and one on
the side of the bed, and a tiny bathroom with
(21:27):
a really rickety door on it that almost came off
just us opening and closing the door, and an absolutely
tiny bathroom.
Speaker 1 (21:36):
For me, the saddest part is just looking at that
space between the toilet and that bathub O. How sad
is it to end your life right in that area.
Speaker 12 (21:48):
It did not feel good in that room.
Speaker 8 (21:51):
It was a really sad place to go and a
sad place for her to have those last moments of
her life.
Speaker 3 (22:01):
In the weeks after Libby's body was found, ipd never
returned to Room three nineteen. As far as I can tell,
they didn't go back to measure the tiny bathroom and
work through the logistics of Devin's story, nor did they
try to track down more guests who'd stayed near Room
three nineteen that night, despite the fact that the impression
I gathered was that the motel operated almost like a
(22:24):
marketplace where people could wander around and buy drugs and
sex instead, IPD waited two months for the results of
the autopsy to come back, and even though it was
ruled undetermined, they closed the case anyway, much to the
shock of Libby's mom, Cindy.
Speaker 15 (22:43):
In my mind, I'm thinking, shouldn't we trust our police department.
We started calling and they were never available and we
couldn't get hold of anybody.
Speaker 3 (22:53):
As the months went by, Cindy came to the harsh
realization that IPD was unlikely to do anything else in
Libby's case. She was the only one still searching for answers.
Speaker 2 (23:11):
I was talking to another mother who had lost a
daughter in Independence, and her daughter's death certificate said suicide,
but she knew darn well it wasn't by just the
photographs and everything her daughter been through.
Speaker 3 (23:26):
The mother was a local woman named Jackie Schroer. In
twenty seventeen, her daughter Angela had also died under suspicious circumstances.
She was found shot in the forehead less.
Speaker 13 (23:38):
Than two months after her death, the Shore Say police
told them the case was closed, suicide, end of story.
Speaker 2 (23:45):
But that was just the beginning.
Speaker 3 (23:48):
To Cindy, the Schroer's experience already felt eerily similar to
her own.
Speaker 13 (23:53):
Almost as shocking as learning about their daughter's death, they say,
was learning how the Independence Police Apartment dismissed this investigation.
Speaker 3 (24:05):
Dismissed was exactly how Cindy felt, and she wanted to
put pressure on IPD, but didn't really know where to begin.
So she asked Jackie.
Speaker 15 (24:16):
I called her and I was like, what do I
need to do, because I believe I'm in the same
situation you are. And so she said, you need to
get your emmy records. You need to get all your
police records.
Speaker 2 (24:30):
Have you done that yet? And I said no, I
didn't know I could do that.
Speaker 15 (24:34):
I had no idea that you could get the reports
and that they were public knowledge.
Speaker 3 (24:40):
Since Livy's case was officially closed, Cindy was able to
request the complete police file. This was one silver lining
at least, but Jackie warned her that the road ahead
would not be easy.
Speaker 15 (24:53):
She started advising, me, get your stuff together, because this
is going to be the fight of your life.
Speaker 3 (25:01):
At this point, Cindy knew very few solid facts about
Libby's death. Basically, all she had to go on was
what police told her the night she learned her daughter
had died, and so she was prepared to immerse herself
in the case file to learn everything the police saw
and did. But Cindy's resolve was tested almost immediately with
(25:22):
the arrival of an IPD disc containing photos of Libby's body.
Speaker 15 (25:26):
I didn't look at it at the DVD of the
crime scene because I didn't want to. You can't unsee
something that you've looked at.
Speaker 3 (25:36):
But Cindy also knew if she was going to get
to the truth of what happened to Libby, she really
had no other option.
Speaker 7 (25:44):
I waited, I think about three days, and I prayed,
and I prepared myself, and then plugged it in early
one morning and watched it. I knew right then that
something was, you know, not right about the scene. I
(26:06):
knew the way her body was positioned. I knew just
by reading all the reports and seeing it, that she
didn't die by herself inflicted, you know.
Speaker 3 (26:23):
As painful as it was, the process strengthened Cindy's resolve.
But if Cindy was going to change anyone's mind about
what happened. She needed more than just a feeling, which
is why she reached out to Jim Murray, the private investigator.
Speaker 15 (26:37):
He immediately called the police station the day we hired him.
In the room, before we even left, he picked up
the phone.
Speaker 2 (26:43):
He called IPD.
Speaker 15 (26:45):
I got an appointment to talk with someone, you know,
and that.
Speaker 2 (26:48):
Was more than we'd ever gotten.
Speaker 3 (26:59):
If you were to imagine a quintessential private eye, Jim
Murray might not be too far off. He's tall, broad shouldered,
with tattoos on his forearms that peek through his rolled
up sleeves. He has a deep baritone voice that can
be imposing if it needs to be. He really was
the perfect person to accompany me, as you heard earlier
to the sports stadium in When Cindy hired Murray in
(27:22):
the summer of twenty eighteen, he was entering a new
phase of life after nearly four decades of investigative work.
His eyesight was failing him, and he was almost ready
to stop taking new cases. Almost because he still makes
time for a particular kind of client.
Speaker 1 (27:40):
I have kind of retired at this point, but you know,
my passion is helping families find answers when they're not
getting answers. I've done over the years cases that are
ruled to be a suicide, and they may be a
homicide suspicious death. So it seemed like I ended up
doing a lot of those.
Speaker 3 (27:59):
Murray told me his desire to help families like Libby's
stems from personal experience. Some years back, his own daughter
died under suspicious circumstances in Texas.
Speaker 1 (28:10):
These tattoos on my arms tell a story, the scales
of justice that reminds me every day that the state
of Texas has failed to bring justice to my daughter
and to my family. That one right there when it
says sheep dogs never rest, somebody harmed my flock. Those
are there for a reason, and they're to remind me
every day, no matter how bad I feel, no matter
(28:33):
what happens, I got to get my ass up, and
I gotta go because I went to my family. If
it weren't for my daughter's case and the Libby Caswells
in the world, I'd be at my house sitting by
a swimming pool. Second on Margarita by.
Speaker 3 (28:47):
Now Mary knows what it feels like to be a
parent desperately searching for answers, and he also knows that
a PI like him is often much more likely to
get information out of a police apartment then a grieving
family member.
Speaker 1 (29:02):
Cindy struck me as somebody that was just getting stole
walled at every turn, and that's really where I came in.
Speaker 3 (29:12):
In fact, Mary already had a pretty good relationship with
IPD at the time Cindy hired him.
Speaker 1 (29:17):
I'm very familiar with Independence in my business. I know
a lot of their detectives and they are good people.
Do they make mistakes? Yeah? Do I always agree with
everything they do?
Speaker 9 (29:31):
No?
Speaker 1 (29:31):
And I can tell you as a private investigator, we
don't always agree with the police. That's why there are
private investigators in the world to go back and take
a look at things.
Speaker 3 (29:44):
Five months after Libby's case was closed, Jim Maurray began
to dig through the case file that Cindy had acquired.
Speaker 1 (29:51):
I met with her, looked at all the photographs and
knew right away something was definitely wrong. You got articles
scattered all over the room, You've got a nightstand drawer open,
You've got a man's broken wrist watch out on the bed.
The first thing that would probably go through my mind
under these signs of a struggle. We have a term
(30:12):
called JDLR, which means just don't look right for me.
The broken watch signs of a struggle. The ransacked room,
what are they looking for? Could there have been a confrontation?
So these are all things that would make it suspicious.
Speaker 3 (30:26):
Marie was also struck by the odd position of Libby's body.
She had been found by police in the small space
between the toilet and the bathtub, her feet slightly up
against the wall.
Speaker 1 (30:38):
I can't see anyway the body would naturally fall in
that position from a hanging. That was the big tail
telling to me, when you open that door just a
little bit, that body's going to come down, and it's
going to fall pretty much on the left side of
the toy, because that's the direction the momentum is going
to be carrying it. Body's all the way clear on
the right side of the of the toilets. Tool just
(31:00):
didn't make sense. I brought this up with the police
and they said, oh, he admitted that he held her
after he found her holding somebody crying. Whatever. I get that,
you don't pick him up and lay him over here.
Let me lay you over here by the toilet out
of the way.
Speaker 3 (31:17):
Murray also felt that there was a lack of evidence
proving that Libby had ever hanged from the bathroom door.
The mark on the top of the door, which IPD
discovered after interviewing Devin, wasn't convincing to him. He didn't
think there was enough damage to indicate Libby died in
the way Devin described.
Speaker 1 (31:37):
I realized she was a small stature of person, but
those are pretty flimsy doors. If you start to lose oxygen,
your body is going to have an instinct to survive,
even if you want to kill yourself. When you start
losing oxygen, you're involuntarily going to move in some way.
I would have thought that door would have shown more
damage than just those little tool marks on the top.
Speaker 3 (32:00):
By the time we went to the motel together, the
door had been replaced, so there was no way to
look into this further. During Maury's investigation, he also requested
records from IPD and got something that Cindy hadn't, a
copy of Devin's entire interview with IPD the night of
Libby's death. Mariy was stunned by something that happened before
(32:22):
the questioning even began.
Speaker 1 (32:24):
If you watch his police interview and listen really carefully,
the police officer walks out, and I know he did
it by design. Left him with his cell phone and
see what he did, and he called his dad. You
can hear the other end of the conversation if you
listened closely, and I actually could hear his dad saying,
I'm not going to lie for you. And that told
(32:46):
me that, okay, why would you need somebody to lie
for you.
Speaker 3 (32:49):
The audio quality on the tape isn't great, but I've
listened to it over and over too, and my team
ran it through some software to clean up the background noise.
From what I can tell, well, Marie is right. Here's
the critical part of their conversation. Devin says to his stepmom,
tell my dad to come up here and let him
(33:10):
know that I was at his house. Instead, Hey, tell.
Speaker 6 (33:13):
My dad to come up here and let him.
Speaker 8 (33:16):
Know that.
Speaker 3 (33:19):
His stepmom asked him to clarify. Is Devion telling them
to say he was at their house after he left
the scene, Yeah, Devin says yes. And then his dad,
who's now on the line, says, quote, I can't lie
for you.
Speaker 4 (33:41):
I don't need that to happen.
Speaker 3 (33:52):
According to Libby's case file, the police never interviewed Devin's
dad or stepmom, never ask them if Devin had come
over after Libby died, like he told IPD he did.
I haven't been able to speak to Devon's father myself,
despite numerous attempts, but I was able to interview his stepmom, Jamie.
(34:12):
I don't recall that phone call.
Speaker 6 (34:14):
I don't have a lot of recollection of that night.
Speaker 13 (34:18):
Because honestly, I.
Speaker 6 (34:22):
Made some bad choices, and you know, I had some
mind altering substances in my body in which I'm queen today,
but I'm queen now that I wasn't then.
Speaker 3 (34:31):
Devon's the only one who could tell us what he
meant when he was talking to his parents that night,
But he's declined to speak with me. To my ears,
it sounds like he's asking them to cover for him,
to say he was somewhere he wasn't. This moment feels
like yet another missed opportunity for IPD, especially if Murray
(34:52):
is right that the police were baiting Devon by leaving
him alone with his phone. Why didn't they ask him
what he was talking about? And why didn't they interview
Devin's dad to corroborate Devn's story. There's another moment in
Devon's phone call to his parents that struck Murray as
right for further investigation. At one point, Devin's dad tells
(35:16):
his son that he's concerned about how Nick is acting.
It's hard to make out, but he says, Nick is
worrying me. Man, One wrong word and you're in trouble.
(35:37):
Jim Murray was suspicious of Nick's story already that he
happened to leave the motel just before Devin says he
fell asleep for over eight hours and then came right
back after Devon called him that night with news of
Libby's death. There was also this tidbit contained within the
initial police report. The motel clerk said that a person
(35:58):
named Nick was repeated Deadley calling while IPD was on
the scene, asking if the cops had left yet. Murray
wondered if perhaps Nick knew a lot more than he
was letting on, So we tracked him down in a
nearby county jail where he was being held for an
unrelated crime. This audio is pretty rough, too, but I'll
(36:19):
summarize as we go how.
Speaker 1 (36:21):
You as good.
Speaker 16 (36:23):
Thanks Jim Murray having an investigator start investigations. I want
to chat with you for regarding the death of Labycat's well,
all right, tell me what you.
Speaker 1 (36:37):
Remember that day, that evening place life.
Speaker 16 (36:40):
Last we actually arrived at like that morning.
Speaker 3 (36:46):
Nick tells Murray a similar story to what he told IPD.
They checked into the sports stadium in Libby was acting
suicidal and then Nick left. He found out about her
death when Devin called him in a panic that night.
Speaker 16 (37:01):
Now was actually not too far away from the hotel
lays House.
Speaker 3 (37:07):
The hotel, Nick mentioned something to Jim Murray that he
didn't tell IPD that he was dropped back off at
the motel by his brother, which is interesting because his
brother has actually come up a few times in my investigation.
He's the one that Libby said stole her car earlier
that week. He's also the person whose name and photo
(37:30):
were printed out on a piece of paper found in
room three nineteen the night Libby's body was discovered, which
leads me to wonder is it possible Nick's brother was
in the motel room too at some point? For that matter,
did anyone else come and go from the motel room,
(37:50):
and did Devin stay in the room the whole time?
As he claims, all of these questions would be easy
enough to answer by simply viewing the motel's security footage,
but we don't have it because ipd never got it.
Speaker 1 (38:08):
Somebody dropped the ball. If they were just going back
and got the video, one or two things would happen.
Either the car would have stayed there all day and
not moved, which would have made his story if I
was asleep all day a little more palatable. Maybe just crashed,
but I would just about bet my best dog, and
(38:29):
I like her a lot that at the end of
the day you would have seen that car come and
go on video.
Speaker 3 (38:35):
Mary believes Nick is in some way covering for Devin,
and at one point during their conversation he gives him
some friendly advice.
Speaker 14 (38:44):
There's anything you're not telling me or anything like that,
don't let your loyalty come back and bite you in
the ass.
Speaker 3 (38:52):
Nick insists that he's telling Murray everything he knows and
that he's genuinely heartbroken about Libby's death.
Speaker 14 (39:00):
I will ask you a real serious question. I want
a straight up answer between you and me. Do you
think Devion killed her? What makes you so sure he didn't?
Speaker 12 (39:13):
And I don't know any.
Speaker 16 (39:18):
I don't seen her doing anything almost one hundred percent.
Speaker 3 (39:29):
Jim Murray, though at the end of his year long investigation,
is left with the opposite impression.
Speaker 1 (39:35):
In Libby Caswell's case, Oh absolutely, I'm one hundred percent
vince that she was murdered.
Speaker 3 (39:46):
On the next episode of What Happened to Libby Caswell,
Cindy continues her fight for the truth and tracks down
a medical expert to weigh in on Libby's manner of death.
Speaker 6 (39:57):
When I reviewed the documents, it was clear that the
physical evidence, principally the marks on Libby's neck, were not
consistent with the fudicental hanging.
Speaker 5 (40:06):
They were consistent with a homicide.
Speaker 3 (40:09):
And the Independence Police Department responds to criticisms of its investigations.
Speaker 9 (40:14):
And I don't have that arrogant, condescending nature about me,
so I don't put myself on a pedestal above anybody.
If you can come up with something or an idea,
something we haven't thought of, by all means, let me
have it.
Speaker 3 (40:30):
What Happened to Libby Caswell is written, reported, and hosted
by me Melissa Jelson, with writing and story editing by
Marisa Brown and Lauren Hanson. Episodes are edited by Jeremy
Thal and Carl Catel. Our executive producer is Ryan Murdoch
for iHeart Podcasts. Executive producers are Jason English and Katrina Norvel,
(40:53):
with our supervising producer Carl Catel. Archival material courtesy of
Casey TV five News. Our theme song is written by
Aaron Kaufman and performed by Aaron Kaufman and Elizabeth Wolfe.
Original music by Aaron Kaufman with additional music by Jeremy Thal.
Our episodes are mixed and mastered by Carl Catle. To
(41:16):
find out more about my investigation or to send a tip,
please email me at what Happened to libbyat gmail dot com.
Thanks so much for listening.
Originals.
Speaker 2 (00:03):
This is an iHeart original.
Speaker 3 (00:09):
This story might be hard to hear. There's detailed talk
of suicide and violence, but we think it's important not
to gloss over the reality of what happened to Libby Caswell.
Please take care while listening.
Speaker 4 (00:25):
December fourth, that was our last visit together.
Speaker 3 (00:30):
Colleen Huff was Libby's parent, aid a professional assigned by
the state to monitor her visits with her son's eve
and help her work towards regaining custody. Each week that
meet at Cindy's house. Collen tells me that Libby would
often arrive at these visits excited and happy, as it
was the only time she would get to see ZV.
(00:51):
But on this date, December fourth, a week before her death,
Libby is in a state of panic.
Speaker 4 (00:57):
She was like really upset, and she was shaking, and
she she looked at her appearance, I mean, she was
just a mess, and you know, I knew something was very,
very different.
Speaker 3 (01:11):
Colleen's instincts are right. After some coaxing, Libby tells her
that just a few hours earlier, Devan attacked her on
the bed, strangling her. They had been staying with one
of Devan's family friends, Gary Stevens, who happened to witness
the incident.
Speaker 5 (01:28):
So when I.
Speaker 6 (01:28):
Opened up the door, I seen Devan was on top
of Lip and he was choking her.
Speaker 3 (01:37):
Back at her mom's house. Libby tries to calm down.
Speaker 4 (01:42):
She was shaking, so I knew she was afraid.
Speaker 3 (01:46):
For years, Libby had kept Devan's abuse mostly hidden, only
sharing bits and pieces with certain friends, But today is different.
Telling Colleen about the strangulation is the only time I
know of where she actually reported an act of violence
to someone in a position of authority, and Colleen immediately
jumps into action.
Speaker 4 (02:08):
I called all the shelters in Kansas City to try
to find her a safe place to go.
Speaker 3 (02:15):
While Colleen's making phone calls, Libby tries to push aside
her distress and connect with zav. She cooks him pancakes
and changes his outfit, and eventually Colleen lines up a
bed for Libby at a domestic violent shelter run by
the Hope House.
Speaker 4 (02:33):
I found a shelter with availability. I cleared the rest
of my schedule after the supervised visit. After she got
to spend time with her son, she was going to
go with me. I felt like she needed to be
in a safe place.
Speaker 3 (02:53):
There's a food through win.
Speaker 7 (03:01):
So what.
Speaker 3 (03:09):
From iHeart Podcast. I'm Melissa Jelson and this is what
happened to Libby Caswell.
Speaker 7 (03:17):
Cross.
Speaker 8 (03:21):
I can't tell you a single time at night that
she'd ever have her blinds up, and because she always
was looking over her shoulder always.
Speaker 9 (03:28):
This is not a homicide. This is a suicide polsuse.
Speaker 10 (03:32):
He wanted to do was clean up and get away
from him.
Speaker 2 (03:34):
She started jumping through all the hoops. She was like,
I know what I need to do.
Speaker 6 (03:38):
Now was the last time I'm seeing I couldn't even
tell you which direction he went.
Speaker 1 (03:44):
Somebody dropped the ball.
Speaker 3 (03:50):
Or Chapter five, The Fight of Your Life. December fourth,
(04:18):
twenty seventeen was supposed to be a happy day for
the Caswell family. Libby's sister Natalie had just given birth
to her first child, and this was the day she
was coming home from the hospital.
Speaker 11 (04:30):
We pulled up to the house and my dad helped
me carry you all my bags and stuff in the door.
Speaker 3 (04:37):
But the welcome Natalie gets from her family is not
at all what she imagined. Libby is at Cindy's house
and she's deeply distraught.
Speaker 11 (04:45):
As soon as I walked in the door. She was
standing in the living room with my mom and Colleen,
and she was just crying, like really upset about something.
And at the time, I didn't know why she was crying,
and I started hearing what they were talking about. They
were talking about he did something to her and that's
(05:05):
why she was so upset, and so I was like,
what's going on? And so they started telling me about
how she was late to her visit because they were
at Devin's stepdad's house and he heard them arguing and
walked into the bedroom where they were staying, and Devin
was on top of Libby, choking her.
Speaker 3 (05:27):
Despite the circumstances, Libby tries her best to celebrate her sister.
Speaker 11 (05:33):
We were in the kitchen and she was asking me
questions about the baby and my birth and all that.
Speaker 3 (05:40):
But Libby can't hide her fear over what had just
happened to her and what might happen next.
Speaker 11 (05:48):
Her voice was shaky, and I was like, why don't
you just come home. I don't like we could tell
him you're not here. She just kept saying like, no,
I can't do that. I said, well, why give me
a reason, why can't you do that I don't understand,
and she said, well, because you don't understand what would
happen if I stay here, he would know I'm here,
(06:11):
and it's not safe for you, and it's not safe
for Zay. You don't know what he would do, and
I have to stay with him to keep him away.
Speaker 3 (06:20):
But there is another option, the domestic Violent Shelter. Colleen
had found Libby a placement at a nearby shelter run
by the Hope House. It felt like a good compromise
and escape from Devin that kept her and her family safe.
Libby agrees to go after her visit with Zaev, but
there's a catch. Colleen would have to escort Libby to
(06:42):
the police station first, then the police would take Libby
to the shelter. This is the standard protocol for the
intake process at Hope House. The CEO of Hope House
told me that the police are involved in order to
protect staff and new clients during what is often a
time and highly charged moment. But in Libby's experience, involving
(07:05):
the police meant risking a fine or arrest. It meant
being called uncooperative, a nuisance.
Speaker 4 (07:13):
At the end of the visit, she changed her mind
and decided not to go.
Speaker 3 (07:19):
Libby didn't say why. Nobody knows if it was her
distrust of police, if she was worried about Devon's reaction,
or something else. And it's possible that if Libby had
spoken up about her hesitations, there could have been a
different solution.
Speaker 4 (07:35):
And I tried to talk her into it, but that was.
Speaker 8 (07:40):
Well.
Speaker 4 (07:41):
If if I had to do it all over again,
I would have thrown her over my shoulders and put
her in my car and made her followed three way
that but she didn't, and that's the last time I
ever saw her.
Speaker 3 (07:55):
Libby leaves her mom's house alone. At the end of
her visit. She walks out of the front door and
drives off in her black Forward Fusion.
Speaker 11 (08:04):
I just assumed that I would see her again on Monday,
so I kind of went about, you know, my life
with my newborn. I think about that a lot. How
I don't have any pictures of them together. They only
met one time, and didn't really think much of it
because I thought she'd be back.
Speaker 3 (08:23):
But Libby never made it to that next scheduled visit
with Zave the following Monday. That was the day her
body was discovered. The next seven days marked the last
of Libby's life. It's hard to know exactly where she
was or what she was doing, because she didn't see
(08:45):
her family again. Her phone, which would have offered insight
into her whereabouts and communications, was never retrieved by police,
but I've been able to gather bits and pieces of
what happened during those days from talking to others. At
some point, Libby reconnects with Devon. My guess is that
it was pretty soon after she left Cindy's house, and
(09:08):
it seems to me, based on how her family described
her behavior, that she had recently relapsed. The couple would
have had nowhere to stay. Gary had kicked them out.
Cindy refused to have Devon in her home. I heard
from some friends that they may have stayed in an
abandoned house and also rented a room at another motel
in town. On Thursday, four days before her death, Libby's
(09:32):
car is stolen, allegedly by an acquaintance. She manages to
get it back fairly quickly, but it's in rough shape.
And then one day that week I couldn't confirm exactly
which Devon has an encounter with a man at his
father's house, who accuses Devon of stealing his drugs. The
man's furious and reportedly ripping at Devon's shirt, pushing him around. Then,
(09:58):
on Sunday, the day before libby death, Devin and Libby
meet up for a few hours with Nathan, Libby's childhood friend.
They all drive around town in Libby's car, listening to
music and smoking pot. Nothing about this seems out of
the ordinary to Nathan.
Speaker 6 (10:14):
This is one of those days that I would have
never thought that they were arguing or anything. I mean,
it seems perfect. She was all about him and he
was all about her.
Speaker 3 (10:22):
Until they stop for gas and Devin goes into pay
and the second Libby is alone with her friend, her
cheerful demeanor drops.
Speaker 6 (10:30):
Libby don't get me and said, Nathan, I don't think
I feel safe with Devon anymore, like I don't. I
don't know. Something just seems off right now.
Speaker 3 (10:43):
In the brief moment they have together, Nathan offers to
have Libby stay with him, but she declines. Devin gets
back in the car and they're off again, and Libby
switches to how she'd been acting before, happy carefree. Hearing
Nathan's story, I'm struck by how raw this moment of
vulnerability is, especially for someone like Libby so practiced at
(11:08):
hiding what she's going through. It seems to me like
it's a cry for help.
Speaker 6 (11:14):
It was literally the night before she died, and she
waited until he went inside the Quick Trips to pay
for gas. I wish I could go back in time
and go stay with her at that hotel.
Speaker 3 (11:33):
Eventually, Libby and Devin drop Nathan back off at home
and continue on their journey. Around this time, on Sunday evening,
Cindy is worried about Libby and repeatedly sending her messages.
She wants to note if Libby is going to make
it to her scheduled appointment with Xavier and Colleen, her
parent aid. The following morning, she messages her, are you
(11:56):
going to be here? Colleen is expecting you At nine
point thirty. Libby replies, I know, Mom, I need to
be straight when I come see him. Those are the
last words Cindy would receive from her daughter. At some
point in the wee hours of Monday morning, Libby and
Devon arrive at the sports Stadium in along with their
(12:19):
friend Nick. They hang out in the parking lot for
a bit. There, they meet another guest, David Fristo. He
was the one who encouraged Devon to call nine one
one after Libby's death. In his conversation with police, Fristo
told them he hadn't interacted much with the couple when
they first arrived, except some friendly hellos. When I tracked
(12:41):
Fristo down five years later, though, he had more to
say hello, Hello, Hey, it's more.
Speaker 5 (12:49):
So Okay, I'm going to go outside on the porch.
Speaker 3 (12:52):
I asked Fristo to walk me through what he remembered
from his encounter with Devin, Libby and Nick. He'd been
asleep in his room and woken up by the sound
of people talking.
Speaker 5 (13:03):
The only reason I went out there and talked to
them because they was exactly right in front of my door,
my window, and they was talking so loud and making
so much racket that I just got up and went
out there, you know, because I'm thinking that they was
out there arguing them, but they wasn't. They was out
there just having fun talking.
Speaker 3 (13:21):
You weren't annoyed that they were like waking.
Speaker 5 (13:23):
You up when no, no, no, no, no, no, I don't,
I don't no, but uh, because it happens all the
time when you stay at a motel like that, because
there's always something going on.
Speaker 3 (13:36):
Fristoe told me that they all hung out for a
bit in the parking lot.
Speaker 5 (13:40):
I'm a person that'll talk to anybody. I'll talk to
a brick wall, you know. So I just went out
there and was talking and telling them. You know, we're
just talking about everything, anything and everything. We were talking
like what most men talk about, you know, sports and
stuff like that.
Speaker 1 (13:58):
We were talking about football, baseball.
Speaker 3 (14:01):
The Devin and the other guy next to him most
of the talking or was lippy as actively in the conversation,
not as much.
Speaker 5 (14:11):
She didn't really voice her opinion about anything really.
Speaker 3 (14:16):
Still, Fristo's impression of the couple was that they seemed fine,
good even I thought they was actually married.
Speaker 5 (14:24):
They both seemed really happy, I know that much.
Speaker 6 (14:26):
They wasn't arguing.
Speaker 5 (14:28):
You can count of sense if somebody's arguing and fighting,
but they It didn't feel that way to me.
Speaker 3 (14:35):
I can't help but think about how Libby also seemed
fine to Nathan, one of her close friends, until they
got a moment alone and her whole facade crumbled.
Speaker 4 (14:45):
It's hard to say, because people can put on a
good act, you know what I mean. I don't know.
Speaker 5 (14:51):
It's hard to judge people.
Speaker 3 (14:54):
I know Libby made at least one more attempt to
reach out for help.
Speaker 10 (14:58):
I may have been one of the last ones speak
to her on the phone.
Speaker 3 (15:01):
Anyway, At some point, when Devin was out of earshot,
she picked up her phone and called her friend Brian.
Speaker 10 (15:08):
Basically that phone call was her telling me that she
was at a hotel. Devin had taken her there, she
had met him there or something. I'm not really sure,
but she didn't feel safe and wanted me to come
pick her up. And it was a very brief call.
It probably didn't last more than two or three minutes,
but best of my recollection, she said, he's here, I
(15:32):
have to go.
Speaker 1 (15:32):
I'll call you back.
Speaker 10 (15:33):
I'll call you right back as soon as I can.
I was like, promise me, you're going to call me back,
and she said I promise and click and that was it.
And that was the last I spoke to her.
Speaker 3 (15:50):
In the summer of twenty twenty two, I found myself
standing in the parking lot of the sports Stadium in
probably pretty close to the same spot where nearly five
years earlier, Libby and Devon had chatted with David Fristo
before they checked in to Room three nineteen. The Sports
Stadium in sits directly on Highway forty in Independence, around
(16:12):
the corner from the stadium with the Kansas City Chiefs
play during football season, The motel can attract out of
town fans, who I imagine are sorely disappointed when they
pull up outside a yellowing block of dingy rooms that
look like they haven't been updated since the eighties. Google
reviews mentioned shady characters, dirty linen's, and frequent bug sidings,
(16:35):
But for the most part, the clientele aren't football fans.
They're locals with few other places to go. I knew
from reading police reports that the Independence Police Department was
often at the motel responding to nine one one calls
involving alleged drug sales, robberies, and assaults. As recently as
(16:55):
August twenty twenty three, a man was killed there. But
even so, I wanted to see it for myself, to
get a better sense of the place and potentially answer
some lingering questions about the crime scene. When I told
Cindy my plan to go, even in the middle of
the day, she advised that I should bring someone with me,
someone more physically intimidating, which is how I ended up
(17:19):
accompanied by a six foot two hundred pound private investigator
who carries a concealed weapon.
Speaker 1 (17:24):
I'm Jim Murray. I'm one of the founders of Star
Investigations LLC out of Jefferson City, Missouri. Been in a private
investigator for about no close to forty years now.
Speaker 3 (17:35):
Even with Jim Murray by my side, I was having
some serious second thoughts. As soon as we pulled into
the parking lot, I felt eyes on us. People were
peeking through the curtains, opening their doors to look at
our shiny rental SUV, the nicest in the lot. Almost
immediately I saw a drug sale take place through a
car window.
Speaker 4 (18:00):
The keys.
Speaker 3 (18:03):
Jim Murray and I didn't linger to take in the scene.
We headed into the office and asked to rent room
three nineteen. Now, requesting a specific room was a pretty
weird ask. All the rooms are essentially identical and equally dismal,
And sure enough, the motel clerk told us room three
nineteen was dirty and handed his keys to another room instead.
(18:26):
There was an awkward moment of silence as Mariy and
I looked at each other, and then, without skipping a beat,
Maurray came up with a wild, concocted story about how
we were a couple and that specific room held special
memories for us. We wanted to return there for old
times sake. I don't know what the clerk made of
this explanation, but eventually, when he saw we weren't going anywhere,
(18:50):
he said, if we really wanted that room, we could
come back in twenty minutes and it would be ready.
So we drove around for a bit, then came back
and got the keys, fill the old fashioned kind with
three nineteen written on a cheap plastic tag. Holding them
in my hands, I couldn't help but imagine Libby doing
this exact same thing. Jim Murray, my producer, and I
(19:12):
grabbed the audio equipment and some notebooks and shuffled inside,
and immediately there was a rapping at the door.
Speaker 12 (19:21):
What excuse me?
Speaker 9 (19:25):
What?
Speaker 1 (19:27):
Okay, We're just gonna be a minute to drop off
a tanks. Patures give us minutes, okay, thank you.
Speaker 3 (19:35):
The motel clerk told us we were only allowed to
have two people in the room. You can hear in
my voice that I was nervous about their intrusion, but
it wasn't just that. Standing inside Room three nineteen felt
creepier than I had expected. Honestly, I wanted to get
the hell out of there, and so we moved through
the room quickly, taking photos and jotting down details that
(19:58):
we thought might be useful.
Speaker 1 (19:59):
L see that this door has been repair or replaced,
going and Yelsey wanted to see that.
Speaker 3 (20:08):
Jim Murray wanted to take some measurements of the bathroom
where Libby died. He had doubts that Libby, at five
foot five, would have been able to take Devon's belt,
feed it over the top of the door, and then
close it.
Speaker 12 (20:22):
I understand is that the pressure is on this This
just falls out, put the belt there and super close,
he said.
Speaker 1 (20:35):
I said, I don't think it would worked.
Speaker 11 (20:37):
I don't.
Speaker 1 (20:37):
Well, maybe it will.
Speaker 13 (20:38):
As I'm wrong.
Speaker 11 (20:40):
I just don't.
Speaker 1 (20:41):
You'd have to just be a real contortionist.
Speaker 14 (20:43):
To do it.
Speaker 3 (20:45):
We have planned to spend some time in the room
discussing the case, but I changed my mind and suggested
we leave right away.
Speaker 12 (20:52):
Is there anything else we want to do here? Should
we hit it?
Speaker 1 (20:55):
That's all I needed? You know what you've seen it
inside and at yourself.
Speaker 3 (20:59):
We took the measurements, we packed up, piled back into
the car, and once we were out of the parking lot,
I brought out the recorder.
Speaker 8 (21:07):
So we were just at the hotel room or the
motel room where Livy died. And it was very, very small,
you just enough room for a bed, and there were
two large mirrors, one facing the bed and one on
the side of the bed, and a tiny bathroom with
(21:27):
a really rickety door on it that almost came off
just us opening and closing the door, and an absolutely
tiny bathroom.
Speaker 1 (21:36):
For me, the saddest part is just looking at that
space between the toilet and that bathub O. How sad
is it to end your life right in that area.
Speaker 12 (21:48):
It did not feel good in that room.
Speaker 8 (21:51):
It was a really sad place to go and a
sad place for her to have those last moments of
her life.
Speaker 3 (22:01):
In the weeks after Libby's body was found, ipd never
returned to Room three nineteen. As far as I can tell,
they didn't go back to measure the tiny bathroom and
work through the logistics of Devin's story, nor did they
try to track down more guests who'd stayed near Room
three nineteen that night, despite the fact that the impression
I gathered was that the motel operated almost like a
(22:24):
marketplace where people could wander around and buy drugs and
sex instead, IPD waited two months for the results of
the autopsy to come back, and even though it was
ruled undetermined, they closed the case anyway, much to the
shock of Libby's mom, Cindy.
Speaker 15 (22:43):
In my mind, I'm thinking, shouldn't we trust our police department.
We started calling and they were never available and we
couldn't get hold of anybody.
Speaker 3 (22:53):
As the months went by, Cindy came to the harsh
realization that IPD was unlikely to do anything else in
Libby's case. She was the only one still searching for answers.
Speaker 2 (23:11):
I was talking to another mother who had lost a
daughter in Independence, and her daughter's death certificate said suicide,
but she knew darn well it wasn't by just the
photographs and everything her daughter been through.
Speaker 3 (23:26):
The mother was a local woman named Jackie Schroer. In
twenty seventeen, her daughter Angela had also died under suspicious circumstances.
She was found shot in the forehead less.
Speaker 13 (23:38):
Than two months after her death, the Shore Say police
told them the case was closed, suicide, end of story.
Speaker 2 (23:45):
But that was just the beginning.
Speaker 3 (23:48):
To Cindy, the Schroer's experience already felt eerily similar to
her own.
Speaker 13 (23:53):
Almost as shocking as learning about their daughter's death, they say,
was learning how the Independence Police Apartment dismissed this investigation.
Speaker 3 (24:05):
Dismissed was exactly how Cindy felt, and she wanted to
put pressure on IPD, but didn't really know where to begin.
So she asked Jackie.
Speaker 15 (24:16):
I called her and I was like, what do I
need to do, because I believe I'm in the same
situation you are. And so she said, you need to
get your emmy records. You need to get all your
police records.
Speaker 2 (24:30):
Have you done that yet? And I said no, I
didn't know I could do that.
Speaker 15 (24:34):
I had no idea that you could get the reports
and that they were public knowledge.
Speaker 3 (24:40):
Since Livy's case was officially closed, Cindy was able to
request the complete police file. This was one silver lining
at least, but Jackie warned her that the road ahead
would not be easy.
Speaker 15 (24:53):
She started advising, me, get your stuff together, because this
is going to be the fight of your life.
Speaker 3 (25:01):
At this point, Cindy knew very few solid facts about
Libby's death. Basically, all she had to go on was
what police told her the night she learned her daughter
had died, and so she was prepared to immerse herself
in the case file to learn everything the police saw
and did. But Cindy's resolve was tested almost immediately with
(25:22):
the arrival of an IPD disc containing photos of Libby's body.
Speaker 15 (25:26):
I didn't look at it at the DVD of the
crime scene because I didn't want to. You can't unsee
something that you've looked at.
Speaker 3 (25:36):
But Cindy also knew if she was going to get
to the truth of what happened to Libby, she really
had no other option.
Speaker 7 (25:44):
I waited, I think about three days, and I prayed,
and I prepared myself, and then plugged it in early
one morning and watched it. I knew right then that
something was, you know, not right about the scene. I
(26:06):
knew the way her body was positioned. I knew just
by reading all the reports and seeing it, that she
didn't die by herself inflicted, you know.
Speaker 3 (26:23):
As painful as it was, the process strengthened Cindy's resolve.
But if Cindy was going to change anyone's mind about
what happened. She needed more than just a feeling, which
is why she reached out to Jim Murray, the private investigator.
Speaker 15 (26:37):
He immediately called the police station the day we hired him.
In the room, before we even left, he picked up
the phone.
Speaker 2 (26:43):
He called IPD.
Speaker 15 (26:45):
I got an appointment to talk with someone, you know,
and that.
Speaker 2 (26:48):
Was more than we'd ever gotten.
Speaker 3 (26:59):
If you were to imagine a quintessential private eye, Jim
Murray might not be too far off. He's tall, broad shouldered,
with tattoos on his forearms that peek through his rolled
up sleeves. He has a deep baritone voice that can
be imposing if it needs to be. He really was
the perfect person to accompany me, as you heard earlier
to the sports stadium in When Cindy hired Murray in
(27:22):
the summer of twenty eighteen, he was entering a new
phase of life after nearly four decades of investigative work.
His eyesight was failing him, and he was almost ready
to stop taking new cases. Almost because he still makes
time for a particular kind of client.
Speaker 1 (27:40):
I have kind of retired at this point, but you know,
my passion is helping families find answers when they're not
getting answers. I've done over the years cases that are
ruled to be a suicide, and they may be a
homicide suspicious death. So it seemed like I ended up
doing a lot of those.
Speaker 3 (27:59):
Murray told me his desire to help families like Libby's
stems from personal experience. Some years back, his own daughter
died under suspicious circumstances in Texas.
Speaker 1 (28:10):
These tattoos on my arms tell a story, the scales
of justice that reminds me every day that the state
of Texas has failed to bring justice to my daughter
and to my family. That one right there when it
says sheep dogs never rest, somebody harmed my flock. Those
are there for a reason, and they're to remind me
every day, no matter how bad I feel, no matter
(28:33):
what happens, I got to get my ass up, and
I gotta go because I went to my family. If
it weren't for my daughter's case and the Libby Caswells
in the world, I'd be at my house sitting by
a swimming pool. Second on Margarita by.
Speaker 3 (28:47):
Now Mary knows what it feels like to be a
parent desperately searching for answers, and he also knows that
a PI like him is often much more likely to
get information out of a police apartment then a grieving
family member.
Speaker 1 (29:02):
Cindy struck me as somebody that was just getting stole
walled at every turn, and that's really where I came in.
Speaker 3 (29:12):
In fact, Mary already had a pretty good relationship with
IPD at the time Cindy hired him.
Speaker 1 (29:17):
I'm very familiar with Independence in my business. I know
a lot of their detectives and they are good people.
Do they make mistakes? Yeah? Do I always agree with
everything they do?
Speaker 9 (29:31):
No?
Speaker 1 (29:31):
And I can tell you as a private investigator, we
don't always agree with the police. That's why there are
private investigators in the world to go back and take
a look at things.
Speaker 3 (29:44):
Five months after Libby's case was closed, Jim Maurray began
to dig through the case file that Cindy had acquired.
Speaker 1 (29:51):
I met with her, looked at all the photographs and
knew right away something was definitely wrong. You got articles
scattered all over the room, You've got a nightstand drawer open,
You've got a man's broken wrist watch out on the bed.
The first thing that would probably go through my mind
under these signs of a struggle. We have a term
(30:12):
called JDLR, which means just don't look right for me.
The broken watch signs of a struggle. The ransacked room,
what are they looking for? Could there have been a confrontation?
So these are all things that would make it suspicious.
Speaker 3 (30:26):
Marie was also struck by the odd position of Libby's body.
She had been found by police in the small space
between the toilet and the bathtub, her feet slightly up
against the wall.
Speaker 1 (30:38):
I can't see anyway the body would naturally fall in
that position from a hanging. That was the big tail
telling to me, when you open that door just a
little bit, that body's going to come down, and it's
going to fall pretty much on the left side of
the toy, because that's the direction the momentum is going
to be carrying it. Body's all the way clear on
the right side of the of the toilets. Tool just
(31:00):
didn't make sense. I brought this up with the police
and they said, oh, he admitted that he held her
after he found her holding somebody crying. Whatever. I get that,
you don't pick him up and lay him over here.
Let me lay you over here by the toilet out
of the way.
Speaker 3 (31:17):
Murray also felt that there was a lack of evidence
proving that Libby had ever hanged from the bathroom door.
The mark on the top of the door, which IPD
discovered after interviewing Devin, wasn't convincing to him. He didn't
think there was enough damage to indicate Libby died in
the way Devin described.
Speaker 1 (31:37):
I realized she was a small stature of person, but
those are pretty flimsy doors. If you start to lose oxygen,
your body is going to have an instinct to survive,
even if you want to kill yourself. When you start
losing oxygen, you're involuntarily going to move in some way.
I would have thought that door would have shown more
damage than just those little tool marks on the top.
Speaker 3 (32:00):
By the time we went to the motel together, the
door had been replaced, so there was no way to
look into this further. During Maury's investigation, he also requested
records from IPD and got something that Cindy hadn't, a
copy of Devin's entire interview with IPD the night of
Libby's death. Mariy was stunned by something that happened before
(32:22):
the questioning even began.
Speaker 1 (32:24):
If you watch his police interview and listen really carefully,
the police officer walks out, and I know he did
it by design. Left him with his cell phone and
see what he did, and he called his dad. You
can hear the other end of the conversation if you
listened closely, and I actually could hear his dad saying,
I'm not going to lie for you. And that told
(32:46):
me that, okay, why would you need somebody to lie
for you.
Speaker 3 (32:49):
The audio quality on the tape isn't great, but I've
listened to it over and over too, and my team
ran it through some software to clean up the background noise.
From what I can tell, well, Marie is right. Here's
the critical part of their conversation. Devin says to his stepmom,
tell my dad to come up here and let him
(33:10):
know that I was at his house. Instead, Hey, tell.
Speaker 6 (33:13):
My dad to come up here and let him.
Speaker 8 (33:16):
Know that.
Speaker 3 (33:19):
His stepmom asked him to clarify. Is Devion telling them
to say he was at their house after he left
the scene, Yeah, Devin says yes. And then his dad,
who's now on the line, says, quote, I can't lie
for you.
Speaker 4 (33:41):
I don't need that to happen.
Speaker 3 (33:52):
According to Libby's case file, the police never interviewed Devin's
dad or stepmom, never ask them if Devin had come
over after Libby died, like he told IPD he did.
I haven't been able to speak to Devon's father myself,
despite numerous attempts, but I was able to interview his stepmom, Jamie.
(34:12):
I don't recall that phone call.
Speaker 6 (34:14):
I don't have a lot of recollection of that night.
Speaker 13 (34:18):
Because honestly, I.
Speaker 6 (34:22):
Made some bad choices, and you know, I had some
mind altering substances in my body in which I'm queen today,
but I'm queen now that I wasn't then.
Speaker 3 (34:31):
Devon's the only one who could tell us what he
meant when he was talking to his parents that night,
But he's declined to speak with me. To my ears,
it sounds like he's asking them to cover for him,
to say he was somewhere he wasn't. This moment feels
like yet another missed opportunity for IPD, especially if Murray
(34:52):
is right that the police were baiting Devon by leaving
him alone with his phone. Why didn't they ask him
what he was talking about? And why didn't they interview
Devin's dad to corroborate Devn's story. There's another moment in
Devon's phone call to his parents that struck Murray as
right for further investigation. At one point, Devin's dad tells
(35:16):
his son that he's concerned about how Nick is acting.
It's hard to make out, but he says, Nick is
worrying me. Man, One wrong word and you're in trouble.
(35:37):
Jim Murray was suspicious of Nick's story already that he
happened to leave the motel just before Devin says he
fell asleep for over eight hours and then came right
back after Devon called him that night with news of
Libby's death. There was also this tidbit contained within the
initial police report. The motel clerk said that a person
(35:58):
named Nick was repeated Deadley calling while IPD was on
the scene, asking if the cops had left yet. Murray
wondered if perhaps Nick knew a lot more than he
was letting on, So we tracked him down in a
nearby county jail where he was being held for an
unrelated crime. This audio is pretty rough, too, but I'll
(36:19):
summarize as we go how.
Speaker 1 (36:21):
You as good.
Speaker 16 (36:23):
Thanks Jim Murray having an investigator start investigations. I want
to chat with you for regarding the death of Labycat's well,
all right, tell me what you.
Speaker 1 (36:37):
Remember that day, that evening place life.
Speaker 16 (36:40):
Last we actually arrived at like that morning.
Speaker 3 (36:46):
Nick tells Murray a similar story to what he told IPD.
They checked into the sports stadium in Libby was acting
suicidal and then Nick left. He found out about her
death when Devin called him in a panic that night.
Speaker 16 (37:01):
Now was actually not too far away from the hotel
lays House.
Speaker 3 (37:07):
The hotel, Nick mentioned something to Jim Murray that he
didn't tell IPD that he was dropped back off at
the motel by his brother, which is interesting because his
brother has actually come up a few times in my investigation.
He's the one that Libby said stole her car earlier
that week. He's also the person whose name and photo
(37:30):
were printed out on a piece of paper found in
room three nineteen the night Libby's body was discovered, which
leads me to wonder is it possible Nick's brother was
in the motel room too at some point? For that matter,
did anyone else come and go from the motel room,
(37:50):
and did Devin stay in the room the whole time?
As he claims, all of these questions would be easy
enough to answer by simply viewing the motel's security footage,
but we don't have it because ipd never got it.
Speaker 1 (38:08):
Somebody dropped the ball. If they were just going back
and got the video, one or two things would happen.
Either the car would have stayed there all day and
not moved, which would have made his story if I
was asleep all day a little more palatable. Maybe just crashed,
but I would just about bet my best dog, and
(38:29):
I like her a lot that at the end of
the day you would have seen that car come and
go on video.
Speaker 3 (38:35):
Mary believes Nick is in some way covering for Devin,
and at one point during their conversation he gives him
some friendly advice.
Speaker 14 (38:44):
There's anything you're not telling me or anything like that,
don't let your loyalty come back and bite you in
the ass.
Speaker 3 (38:52):
Nick insists that he's telling Murray everything he knows and
that he's genuinely heartbroken about Libby's death.
Speaker 14 (39:00):
I will ask you a real serious question. I want
a straight up answer between you and me. Do you
think Devion killed her? What makes you so sure he didn't?
Speaker 12 (39:13):
And I don't know any.
Speaker 16 (39:18):
I don't seen her doing anything almost one hundred percent.
Speaker 3 (39:29):
Jim Murray, though at the end of his year long investigation,
is left with the opposite impression.
Speaker 1 (39:35):
In Libby Caswell's case, Oh absolutely, I'm one hundred percent
vince that she was murdered.
Speaker 3 (39:46):
On the next episode of What Happened to Libby Caswell,
Cindy continues her fight for the truth and tracks down
a medical expert to weigh in on Libby's manner of death.
Speaker 6 (39:57):
When I reviewed the documents, it was clear that the
physical evidence, principally the marks on Libby's neck, were not
consistent with the fudicental hanging.
Speaker 5 (40:06):
They were consistent with a homicide.
Speaker 3 (40:09):
And the Independence Police Department responds to criticisms of its investigations.
Speaker 9 (40:14):
And I don't have that arrogant, condescending nature about me,
so I don't put myself on a pedestal above anybody.
If you can come up with something or an idea,
something we haven't thought of, by all means, let me
have it.
Speaker 3 (40:30):
What Happened to Libby Caswell is written, reported, and hosted
by me Melissa Jelson, with writing and story editing by
Marisa Brown and Lauren Hanson. Episodes are edited by Jeremy
Thal and Carl Catel. Our executive producer is Ryan Murdoch
for iHeart Podcasts. Executive producers are Jason English and Katrina Norvel,
(40:53):
with our supervising producer Carl Catel. Archival material courtesy of
Casey TV five News. Our theme song is written by
Aaron Kaufman and performed by Aaron Kaufman and Elizabeth Wolfe.
Original music by Aaron Kaufman with additional music by Jeremy Thal.
Our episodes are mixed and mastered by Carl Catle. To
(41:16):
find out more about my investigation or to send a tip,
please email me at what Happened to libbyat gmail dot com.
Thanks so much for listening.
Host
Melissa Jeltsen
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