April 23, 2025 • 43 mins
It’s incredibly hard raising calm kids in today’s insane world, and authors Ashley Graber and Maria Evans understand this so much so, that they wrote a whole book about it! Zoe gets their best tips and tricks on what every parent will want to know, including what it means to be “enough” as a parent. Follow us on Instagram and Tiktok @whatinthewinklerpod
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:03):
You are listening to What in the Winkler and iHeartRadio podcast. Hi,
welcome back to another episode of What in the Winkler.
Today we have two very special guests, Ashley Graber and
Maria Evans. They have written a book together called Raising
Calm Kids in a World of Worry, which is right
up my alley. So let's let them in.
Speaker 2 (00:25):
Hi.
Speaker 3 (00:26):
Hi, Hi, Zoey.
Speaker 1 (00:28):
Hi Maria, Hi Ashley. Nice to meet you.
Speaker 2 (00:31):
Nice to meet you too. Thank you guys for doing this,
of course absolutely, we're so glad too.
Speaker 1 (00:42):
So thank you both for joining us. I just did
your intro, so we talked a little bit about you two,
and just you know, the book basically is all I said.
So I would love to know how you guys know
each other, how you guys connected, and what the story
is about this book.
Speaker 3 (01:03):
That's a great first question. Many many years ago I
started a networking group called Therapists of West Los Angeles,
and Ashley came to the very first meeting, and I
didn't know her, but she came right up and introduced herself,
and we knew that we were both child therapists and
parent coaches and that we had a similar angle of mindfulness.
(01:26):
And attachment theory and connection. And not too long after
there was some period where we met for tea and
we just looked at each other and we said, we
have to do something to get information out to every
parent out there, even the ones who can't afford parent
coaching or don't live in Los Angeles or you know,
the ones that were not immediately treating, and we just
we just knew that it was something we were going
(01:48):
to do together.
Speaker 1 (01:50):
Yeah, that's amazing, So full disclosure. I know Maria because
Maria worked with one of my children and she's done
some parenting work for me, and I have just felt
like a connection to Maria and Ashley. Actually I've called
you before too. I just you know, I try to
(02:15):
reach out to every therapist and alist vibally do for
full But so I I am somebody that really struggles
with anxiety, and especially after I had my first child,
I really I had postpartum anxiety, which no one had
(02:35):
really talked about. There was, you know, postpartum depression, but
I didn't even know what this was that I was
struggling with because I felt extremely connected to my child,
only almost like insanely connected to my child. So it
wasn't that. I wasn't like, you know, oh wait, that
feels weird because what you look out for, what you're
told to look out for, kind of is not feeling
(02:57):
connected to your child. And so some of some of
my kids anxieties I've always attributed to myself because like
it's hereditary. Is it hereditary? I don't even know, but
I think it is.
Speaker 3 (03:12):
Is it partly?
Speaker 1 (03:14):
Partly? And so I feel like in the last you know,
since COVID, really there's been like this huge sort of
surge in kids needing some extra help. And I don't
know if it's just because like the gentle parenting and
(03:35):
all that kind of stuff, or I don't know what,
But can you guys, do you guys see what I'm saying, Like,
because because I've called many therapists and everyone's like, we're full.
So there's gotta be you know, it's a it's a
hot topic. So so what do you guys attribute that?
Like huge sort of uptick in kids dealing with anxiety too?
Speaker 2 (03:59):
Yeah, it's there has been. And the pandemic we saw
we were probably busier than we've ever been. We were
seeing much more dramatic presentations of anxiety. And depression. There
was always anxiety and depression, but it seemed like that
(04:22):
there was definitely more of it, and I think it
was at least I can only speak to this country
the first time that we were all in our lifetimes
in something all together. And there was a sense of
kind of a normalization, a bit of a normalization that
(04:45):
also happened around anxiety and therapy and getting help at
that time, because the Surgeon General was talking about it.
Everybody was talking about out worry and anxiety, and they
were even saying to get everyone tested for it. Go
(05:07):
to your doctor, go to your therapist, and have some
kind of screening done. It was also very scary because
and I don't think I certainly have to explain this
to you or the listeners, because it was something so
incredibly unknown to sit to us. And we just when
we don't know any have any containment around something, it
(05:31):
does cause us to worry a lot more. And it
felt like at the pandemic things just went on, and
certainly in California went on and on and on.
Speaker 3 (05:46):
Yeah, you know. The other thing is anytime that there's change,
which includes the fires that just happened, we see an
uptick in anxiety.
Speaker 1 (05:53):
And I was going to say, it feels like every
second of my life raising children is like unprecedented. But
I don't know if my parents felt that way too.
I really don't know, but it's like every I mean,
the fires were terrifying, and I think I spoke to
Maria a little bit about this, because, you know, when
something scary is happening in the world, sometimes, depending on
(06:15):
the age of your kids, you can sort of protect
them from from it, you know, and give very you know,
give information, but you can sort of control the narrative.
With the fires, there was just absolutely no way to
control because you know, friends were losing their homes, you know,
(06:35):
schools were can't I mean, it was so packing things up,
you know, So I wonder do you guys also feel
like these last couple of years have also been unprecedented
for parents and for kids or is that just like
what I feel because I'm so I'm also so stressed out,
(06:56):
which is Surgeon General just said that parents are super stressed.
Speaker 3 (06:59):
That's right. Oh, absolutely, yeah, It's completely different these last
few years. I always think parents are absolute heroes. Right now,
it is so difficult to pairing in this age, and
like you said, it's a combination of just so much
coming at us and then also not knowing how to
make it feel safe for kids. And that's really why
(07:20):
we wrote the book, because we have a framework that
regardless of what's going on out there, you can still
help make it feel a little bit more contained at
home through the relationship with you as the parent, and
through the way that you talk about everything, even if
you're completely scared yourself or you have no idea what's
going to happen next, which often happens you know.
Speaker 1 (07:40):
So if you guys could give like a cliff Notes
version of your book, like what is the main what
is the main takeaway for this book?
Speaker 2 (07:50):
Well, it's a lot of what you're talking about, Zoe
that parents don't know. Is this worry? Is it? Should
I be worried? Is there more worry happening? And so
we really describe what is it, how to spot it
in your child, and then a solution to it, which
is our safer parenting method. And we really wanted parents
(08:11):
to be able to just pick up the book and
feel like they were seen in it as well. So
we give antidotes and examples and that are real life examples.
So that when a parent reads it, they can say, oh, yeah,
that is like my child or that is like me
(08:32):
and I can and they can recognize themselves in it.
Speaker 3 (08:36):
Yeah, And the basic idea we would say is all
about emotional safety. So, no matter what's going on out there,
no matter how uncontrolled it is, how can you create
emotional safety for your child so that they know I
really like myself, I belong, I have a community that
loves me, I have a parent that will come get
me no matter what's happening. And I have a parent
(08:59):
that I can come and talk to about the scary
things and so are safer. Parenting methodology is all about
how to create that sense of safety in your child
throughout their lifetime so that overall their anxiety levels stay lower,
don't rise to that real peak where it starts to
feel really unmanageable.
Speaker 2 (09:18):
While all this stuff is going on in the world
around them.
Speaker 1 (09:23):
Yeah, it's crazy. I mean it's like every day. I
mean for me at least, like I read something and
then I immediately feel anxiety. So I can imagine what
our kids hear and feel because they do hear way
more than we think that they hear, and they pick
up on way more than we think that they pick
up on, you know. So it's like it's just it's hard.
(09:47):
But writing a book with a partner, do you guys
normally like agree on things? Are there some things that
you see very differently?
Speaker 3 (09:57):
You know? Amazingly That's the thing we said throughout this
whole thread of all four years of doing this project.
Is the coolest part about this is that from both
of our expertise, every point that we want to make
we're completely aligned on.
Speaker 1 (10:10):
That's amazing.
Speaker 3 (10:11):
Yes, well it's pretty common sense. You know. The thing
that people say when they read the book is, you know,
it's so easy to read and it makes sense, and
I feel like I can apply the tools. And that's
because these are things that we know work and they're doable.
So you know, you know, as a parent, it's so
overwhelming to even have one tip or one thing to
think about for the week of Okay, I just want
(10:32):
you to try this one thing. And if you can
just hold one thing at a time, even for a
week or two and just practice it three or four times,
you're golden. I mean, that's already going to make a difference,
you know, And it's overwhelming. So I mean to make
it personal, Zoe, I would say, I think the thing
you do best as a parent on who has a
public channel is that you make it so normal. You
(10:53):
normalize the fact that parenting is hard and that parents
are overwhelmed and that there's legitimate anxiety, and that you
show up with them every single day.
Speaker 1 (11:05):
Yeah, thank you, Wria. Yeah, I mean it's very you know,
for me, I think being a parent is my most
favorite and important job. And my parents used to say
to me all the time, like it would be so
much easier to just say yes to you, like you
have no idea. We wish that we could just say yes,
(11:27):
but that wouldn't be you know, good parenting. It was
like something you know, because I would I was, I
was feisty, and I think about that all the time,
Like it's such a hard job and it feels like
in twenty twenty five, we have like less support than
ever on a job, but we're doing it. It's compounded
(11:51):
by so many outside things, but like no one's really
I mean maybe because we live in LA and it's
like everyone talks about it here and I go to
my kids go to a very like social emotional based school,
but it still feels like people don't really want to
talk about what parenting feels like. And if you want
(12:11):
to do a good job, you know, and you want
to and you want your kids to be I don't
care if my kids get straight a's, like I want
them to be kind people who really really really feel
good inside, and then they'll get the grades will come,
you know, with that, but it's really hard to know, like, Okay, well,
also as a parent, how much of this stuff is
(12:33):
my stuff and how much of this is is actually them?
Do you guys have like a way to sort of
to feel that question, like is this me?
Speaker 3 (12:41):
Is this them?
Speaker 1 (12:42):
Is what's going on?
Speaker 2 (12:45):
It's a great question. We actually kind of do both
in the book because we give those descriptions right in
the beginning of the book of what is worry and
how to spot it? And then there are at the
end of every chest there are some reflection questions for
our parents to go through, and you can really take
(13:07):
a moment and just sit with are these things that
are showing up in my child? And or are they
showing up in me? And you asked the question earlier
about is it does anxiety run in families? And it
does in the fact that if we feel tense about something,
(13:28):
that's going to be the mood, and or if we
feel angry about something, that's going to be the mood.
And so it really does give you an opportunity to
go through the book and make notes, but to parse
out what are the things that I'm seeing and if
you're seeing them in yourself as a parent, and you're
(13:49):
seeing them in your child as a parent, Okay, that's
okay because then you have the information and you know
what to do with it as a parent. Because the solution,
which is our safe parenting solution, and Maria mentioned this before,
if a parent were to open up the book and
say work on s which is set the tone, and
work on that for a long time, then things would
(14:13):
change in their family, even if they didn't also implement
the rest of the letters. We're not suggesting you don't,
but as Maria said, parenting, you all are so busy
and it's such a big job you're and there isn't
always a lot of support, so jumping in and being
able to start wherever you are, as we say as therapist,
(14:35):
but the book really does offer very clear and Maria
made mention of this earlier We wanted it to be
simple and easy to digest, so that when you are
busy in your parenting, it's easy to take in and
easy to understand.
Speaker 1 (14:52):
So what are the letters like? What you mentioned the letters?
Do you want to go over them?
Speaker 3 (14:56):
Are you ready for them? We're ready. I'm ready to
do the real quick, I guess is set the tone.
So the thing to remember is calm is contagious. Palm
is contagious, right, and so is worry. So that's all
about how do you set a calm tone at home?
How do you not catastrophize and you know, freak out
that the Amazon package hasn't arrived. Right. A is allow
(15:17):
feelings to guide behaviors. How do we get our kids
to start to breathe or jump to a coping tool
instead of throwing a shoe against the wall. F is
form identity. That's all about how do we create good
self esteem in kids. That's that belonging chapter, which is
how do we make them feel like they really have
a community? E is engaged like a pro. This one's
(15:39):
super fun. This is our therapist secrets for how to
talk to kids to get them to open up and
what parents do to stop the flow of conversation which
every parent sees themselves in that chapter, which.
Speaker 1 (15:51):
Is totally Can you give an example normal of that,
like what would be like a good question, what would
be a question to like get the flow going, and
what would turn off the flow?
Speaker 3 (16:01):
Yeah, well, we can talk about the barriers you want
to do that?
Speaker 2 (16:03):
Oh okay, Yeah, well, I want to just say in
the things that get in the way of engaging is
when we get too big, too small, or kind of
do nothing at all. So if we over maximize, so
(16:25):
we kind of get oh my gosh, what I can't
believe that this thing is happening, Or we minimize right
where we kind of dismiss something, or we just don't
do anything at all. And so the maximizing and minimizing
means we get too big or we just dismiss it
(16:48):
all together. And then the last one is fixing, and
that is the hardest one for parents because your job
in the world is to fix. And so rather than
just listen, we jump in with a solution. And we
have a tip that we really love which can help
with this, which is to ask a child, do you
(17:10):
want me to give you feedback on this? Or would
you like me to just be on your team and listen,
and in that way, you kind of know where is
the kiddo at. And they may say I don't want
you to say anything and then ask you for something
or the other can happen, But that question is a
golden question when you're just not sure what you're supposed
(17:33):
to do in the moment.
Speaker 1 (17:34):
I mean I say that to my husband sometimes, you know,
like I just I just need you to listen. I don't,
I don't need to, you know, It's like it's such an
important so to teach your children early, you know, how
to get their needs met is such a beautiful thing,
you know, in a in relationship and when you're like
kind of seeking outside help or you know, is there
(18:04):
like a specific People have asked me this before, like
when do you know if your child could benefit from therapy?
I mean, I'm a firm believer that everyone can benefit
from therapy, but what would you guys say?
Speaker 3 (18:18):
Well, one thing to know is that early intervention is great.
So the earlier you're teaching your child these tools better.
They don't necessarily have to be in therapy to learn
the tools, which is why we have the book.
Speaker 1 (18:29):
But you can learn them and then teach them exactly.
Speaker 3 (18:33):
But in terms of really taking a look at, wow,
I should really get my child some help. You want
to look at how much their symptoms are getting in
the way of daily life. So are they waking up
with tummy aches and saying I can't get I don't
want to go to school, or are they excited for
a play date and then they can't get themselves there
because of some catastrophizing they're doing, or some avoidance or fear.
(18:54):
Sometimes attachment is real big, so we see separation, anxiety, Papa,
you might see regression, you might I'm sure you're familiar
with that term, right when kids are just sort of
sliding backwards a little bit. And we saw a lot
of that in the pandemic and during the fires, and
are still seeing it now. So generally after a big event,
(19:15):
it's very normal for kids to have reactions and symptoms
for the first three or four weeks, and we say,
you know, they're having a normal reaction to an abnormal event.
But if that persists and you're seeing them really struggle
to get through their day or get their homework done
every single day, and you can see that they're super
perfectionistic let's say, and just can't get started and it's
(19:37):
really getting in the way, then it might be a
good time to get some help.
Speaker 1 (19:41):
What do you think are the big differences between parenting
today and parenting you know thirty years ago or even
ten years ago, you know, what are like the big
the big things you guys have noticed.
Speaker 2 (19:58):
One thing that I would say for sure is that
we know more about the body and the brain and
the connection between the two, and we have more science
and more research around how our brains are formed and
what the effects are the things around us, and we
(20:20):
just didn't know those things before. So that's one of
the big differences. I think it was a very authoritarian
kind of parenting, and so it was like kind of
do as I say, just do it. And I often
will hear parents say, well, when I was a child,
(20:40):
my parents didn't have to ask me a number of times.
I just did it. But what I'll often hear also
is that that parent was very big in the way
that they said those things, or maybe threatening in the
way that they said those things. And we know that
those things now, we know those things make impressions on
our brain and in our way of functioning in the world,
(21:02):
and so we now allow for more feelings and we
know that if we do that, kids grow up learning
how to and I think you said it before, speak
for themselves, know how they feel. And it's not based
on allowing any behavior, every behavior, which I think is
(21:25):
what was sort of missing in the past, that there
was this idea that if you allowed a feeling, then
you were also allowing any and every behavior to happen.
And it's very different today. We definitely want to teach
children how they feel and to use their feelings, but
not necessarily to have every behavior. And I'll just say
(21:47):
something funny that Marie and I laugh about a lot,
because we'll teach parents to work with their children and
allow their feelings and talk about their feelings, and then
they'll come back to us and say, well, now they're
telling me they're mad. Yes, yes they are.
Speaker 1 (22:09):
I mean I've read there, there's that, There's that. I
think it's a quote like all feelings are welcome, all
behaviors are not. Yes, did my friend Elisa say that?
I don't even know what I post.
Speaker 3 (22:20):
Definitely talks about.
Speaker 1 (22:20):
That, Alisa.
Speaker 3 (22:21):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (22:22):
Elisa Pressman, who's been on my podcast and is a
good friend of mine and I I love that, you know,
because it is it is I want my kids to
feel all the feelings. But you know, the way in
which we have to live in the world is like
we have to feel those feelings and then we have
to like behave accordingly when when we're you know, like
(22:43):
trying to just be human beings, which is and it's
it's its own right, really difficult to just sort of
like be in this world sometimes with all the different
stuff going on, and like now the social media stuff,
it's I I just a just got Instagram. He's thirteen.
(23:03):
He had to get honors in order to get it.
And Rob and I all the time are like, did
we make a mistake, Like, you know, he was the
last of his friends to get it. Well they all
have Snapchat, which we didn't. We felt like wasn't you know,
But but it's such an interesting because then you realize
(23:27):
also like, oh, well, now he's going to see what
I post too, you know, like as the parent, and
I'm always like, oh my god, wait, I can't say that.
Oh my gosh, wait that's picture, you know what I mean.
Not that I'm doing anything so crazy, you know, but
it's like it's this weird place to be in with
kids as they get older, you know, like they say,
bigger kids, bigger problems, which I didn't believe at the
(23:49):
time because I was like, I just he doesn't sleep,
you know. But now it's like he's going to go
to this party and what I'm not there? What, you know,
what's going to happen, you know, So I don't know.
It's it's but what do you guys feel about, like
the social media stuff?
Speaker 3 (24:03):
Do you have like a first of all, welcome to
parenting a teenager?
Speaker 1 (24:06):
Oh my god, I know.
Speaker 3 (24:09):
But yeah, you know, it's such a fine line. It's
such a tricky it's such a tricky thing to figure
out because you're weighing their social status in terms of,
you know, you don't want them to get ostracized because
they're the only ones with right. Yeah, obviously Rob didn't care.
Speaker 1 (24:26):
Rob was like I don't care, and I was like,
well I do. So we got to like, you know,
I can't be like, you know, the total like just
like last of it.
Speaker 3 (24:35):
You know, we have to look out for their social yeah,
at least a little bit. I mean it makes a difference,
you know, when they're growing up obviously, and then there's
all the safety stuff, and you know, they're I mean,
kids are having to field messages from strangers pretending to
be thirteen, fourteen years old, and I mean it's really tricky.
You just have to teach them as much as you
possibly can about it, and then also teach them and
(24:58):
enforce boundaries around minimal usage, which is really hard to
do because as adults, we were never taught that when
we got phones, right, but this is a new generation,
and so we can teach them to have different habits
with their phones.
Speaker 2 (25:14):
I would be yeah, And I would add to what
Maria just said as well, is that it sounds like
you have a relationship with him and you're talking with
him about it. And that's a really important piece of it.
Is to also, in addition to what Maria said, also
be in conversation and if you are engaging your child,
(25:37):
if you are spending time with them, if you are
allowing their feelings and not doing those roadblocks so to speak,
too much, because we all do them, then they're going
to come and talk to you about things. And so
that allows you to kind of let go a little
bit into what is inevitable in their lives, lives, which
(26:01):
is that this is part of it that is inevitable.
Speaker 1 (26:04):
Is social which is part of our world?
Speaker 2 (26:06):
Now?
Speaker 1 (26:16):
Is there one thing that you wish more parents sort
of new? Is there one piece of like? Is there
one thing that you're just like that you see over
and over and over again that you're like, I wish,
I wish, I wish this was just like known or
(26:37):
too many?
Speaker 3 (26:38):
There is one really really interesting little secret, one that
we don't often talk about, but that just popped into
my head, which is, are you ready for this?
Speaker 1 (26:47):
I'm ready.
Speaker 3 (26:49):
All kids read their parents' phones, I know all so.
Speaker 1 (26:56):
And by the way I read his phone, there is so.
Speaker 3 (26:59):
Good that they're much more tech savvy than any parent realize.
Speaker 1 (27:03):
It's crazy, I know.
Speaker 3 (27:05):
And so just and what I'll say is not every
single one, just to just for any kids and parents
listening who are in my practice, not every single single one, okay,
but most and many. So just beware that if you're
having an adult conversation via text message that you don't
want your kid's eyes on, it's probably a good idea
(27:27):
to be mindful of that.
Speaker 1 (27:28):
That's so true. In fact, one of my friends texted
me the other day through WhatsApp because she was like,
this way, they won't read it. And I was dying laughing,
like it's just it's a crazy that they can. And
I say to Ace all the time. My other kids
don't have phones, but I say to Ace all the time, like,
I will read your text messages, like just so you know,
(27:52):
and like and then and then Rob is like, but
then he's just going to erase them. It's hard. It's
hard to know when you're like being overbearing and then
or just being you know.
Speaker 3 (28:08):
To Ashley's point, I think the most the more transparent
you can be and the better relationship that you cultivate
through the years, the more of a chance your child
will come to you and those those moments that they
really need you.
Speaker 2 (28:19):
You know.
Speaker 3 (28:20):
Now you look a lot of stuff up online, but
at the end of the day, nothing really beats your parents'
advice when you know you can get it, you know,
and you know you can trust them. So it's definitely
worth all of those years before to just invest that
time into becoming that safe parent that they can ask questions.
Speaker 1 (28:39):
My parents told me this and I and I did
it with my kids. I said, like, as long as
you tell the truth, like, you'll never get in trouble
if you tell the truth, you know, and and I
and and my parents one of the most important things
was that they didn't just say that and then I
would get in trouble. They stuck to it. So if
I came to them and I told them the truth
and I you know, my kids like I'm to ask
(29:00):
you this, I'm going to ask you it now. If
you tell me the truth, we're good. If you don't
tell me the truth, there's gonna be a consequence, you know,
or there's gonna be whatever. And also the other thing
is I said to Ace, now, I will always come
pick you up, like no questions asked. But if you
call me and you're like uh, or you text me
and you're like I don't want to stay, I don't
(29:22):
feel comfortable here, or you know, whatever it is. I mean,
he's only thirteen, so it's not like his friends are driving.
But Dad and I will always come. One of us
will come get you, and there will be no consequence.
There will be not you know, like we don't even
have to talk about it, but you always have that option.
And those are two things my parents did which I
felt like was ahead of their time. I mean, I'm
forty four, but my dad grew up in a super
(29:45):
abusive household, verbally abusive, and so he wanted to make
sure that we always felt really safe. And it's something that, like,
I'm so grateful for because it created this bond where
this day, I call my parents, you know, I talked.
If I'm having a bad day, I call my dad
and we talk it through, you know. And so I
(30:09):
learned that from them. But I think all the time, like,
had I hadn't, had I not learned that from my dad,
I wouldn't know to say those things, you know. So
it's so great that you, people like you two exist
to create those safe places for kids. I mean, that's
all you That's all I wants as a forty four
year old, let alone for my children.
Speaker 2 (30:29):
You know, we bring up something so important because we
do so often what was modeled to us. So what
we see parents doing is they do the same thing
their parents did if it is something that felt good
to them, or they go in the complete opposite direction.
But we don't know until or unless something is modeled
(30:52):
to us. And that's part of what we're teaching in
the book, is that to set these stages is for
kids to be able to come to you. And you
were making me think, Zoe, I'm in my early fifties,
and so we had this contract that we all signed
when we were younger that said we would call our
(31:14):
parents if we were anywhere and anyone was going to
drive drunk and there was you didn't. Everyone agreed that
you wouldn't talk about it that night, And it's what
we talk about in the book of It gives the
child a safe place, like you're talking about, to come to,
but it also gives a parent a chance to cool
(31:34):
off a little bit from something that is scary, because
getting that phone call is scary. The million things that
go through your mind and that moment, what have they
been into, what's happening? Are they safe? Can I get
there to them fast enough? And so it really does
as you're saying, as you're explaining, it gives that little
bit of space to be able to say, Okay, we
(31:57):
can come back to this another time and talk about it.
We don't have to in this moment.
Speaker 1 (32:03):
Yeah, it gives it some And also like there's that thing.
I actually just got an email from my middle son's
baseball coach that was like, if you guys, if parents
have something that they are upset about, like playing time
or whatever, please wait twenty four hours before sending that email. Now,
I am the most reactive person on this planet. Like
(32:26):
in fact, I got in trouble ones at aces baseball
game when he played club because in between games, I
went and spoke to the coach and I like learned
my lesson and I'll never do that again. But I
thought it was such a great piece of advice because
I like, will just immediately, you know. And and for me,
(32:47):
and Maria knows this, my kids feeling hurt is too
much for me to bear as a human being, Like
I cannot. I want to solve it right away. I
you know, will. I mean, I've said things to kids
like I'm like an unwell person when it comes to
that kind of thing. And so it's really like, I
don't know, it's like that seems to be the golden rules.
(33:11):
Take a breath, take a minute. You know, in every
way when you're dealing with your kids, when you're dealing
with other kids, when you're dealing well, I shouldn't be
dealing with any other kids, but adults, whatever it is,
you know, it's really important.
Speaker 3 (33:23):
Take a beat, take a beat, see if you still
care a little bit later. You know I will, But
also we'll see if you care enough to march up there.
It's still and you know, we didn't get to letter R.
But we're talking about it, which is role modeling. And
it's not just being a good role model, you know,
which we've heard for years and years, but it's about
modeling the skills that you want your kids to pick
(33:44):
up on. Because there's sponges. It's much harder to tell
them what to do than to show them, and so
to take that beat and to narrate it out loud.
You know, I really wanted to walk up to that coach,
and you know what, I remembered that if I sit
there for a few minutes, maybe I won't. And that's
really good modeling. And the other thing we talk about
is really letting your children in sooner than you think
(34:07):
you should on family dynamics and things that are going
on in the home that are unsolved. And you can
do it in an age appropriate way where you're minimally sharing,
but kids can feel and pick up on when there's
tension or when you know, maybe there's addiction in the
family or when when there's an absent person, right, And
in the past, people used to just ignore that completely.
(34:28):
And so what we recommend to keep anxiety down is
to name it and just say, have you noticed, this
is what's going on, and this is how I can
explain it to you. And if you're feeling some kind
of way about it, I'm here to listen. You know.
Speaker 1 (34:44):
That's amazing. Thank you guys so much. Thank you, You're
so welcome.
Speaker 2 (34:49):
Thank you for having us.
Speaker 1 (34:51):
Yeah, I'm so glad.
Speaker 3 (34:52):
This was great, such a good conversation.
Speaker 2 (34:55):
Yeah, I feel like we could talk all day.
Speaker 1 (34:58):
I know, I know, really could, I like, but I
was just going over all my questions and we answered
them all.
Speaker 3 (35:04):
That's awes.
Speaker 1 (35:06):
Yeah, any yeah, it's crazy, like I can't even.
Speaker 3 (35:10):
So we ask you some questions now, Joe, go ahead, Okay,
what is well you already you already talked about one
thing that you got from your parents that you do. Right.
What is one way that your parenting has changed over
the last five years that you're really proud of.
Speaker 1 (35:32):
Well, one of the ways is something you helped me with,
which was when my kids would when my kids would
feel anxious, I would solve it instead of you know
that that's actually kind of feeding into their anxiety more
So instead of just saying like Okay, yeah you can
come home or okay, yeah don't go or oh you
know that, I would sort of say like, oh yeah,
(35:53):
I know that that's really hard, but you're going to
stay at school or you're gonna you know. And I
think that just like that frame of like just seeing
exactly what it is that you what you're at, what
you're doing as a parent, even though your intentions are
too obviously make them more comfortable and take away their anxiety,
(36:15):
that that actually just creates more anxiety. So that's something
that I've really been working on. You know, all three
of my kids are so different. They're just such different people,
and that's just who they are. That's how they came
into this world. You know, we we they're all in
(36:35):
this house. They're growing up in this house. They have
Rob and I as their parents, but they're so different.
So things that worked for Ace might not work for Jewels,
may not work for Gus. You know, It's it's really
sort of like also disengaging more for me has been.
But there was one question that and and I and
(36:59):
I I don't know, and I guess you guys answered it.
But how can I create a home where everyone sort
of needs or met even though they're so different? You know,
like my my middle is extremely independent. My youngest is
so obsessed with me that you know, like I can't
(37:20):
even like go anywhere in the house, and our house
we don't have any locks, so it's literally like I
just have absolutely nowhere to go. I would have to
climb on the roof, I guess. And then my oldest
is so he's also independent now, but he's he's getting
to the he's he's very tuned in to me and Rob.
So like if ever I, you know, am annoyed about
(37:43):
something else, he'll say like did I do something? And
you know it's about a fight I had with Rob?
Or like a I burnt the broccoli or something, you
know what I mean? Like, so, what are what is
I guess that list is how you make sure that
everyone in the family is contained, right.
Speaker 2 (38:02):
One of the things that I think that it's just
a quick tip that you could try, because it is.
This is kind of the biggest parenting trick, isn't it.
It's like, once you figure out one kidd And the
next one, yeah, is to spend a little bit of
(38:26):
one on one time with each of them and to
do something that they want to do. Now that's a
big ask when you have three children if you think, oh,
I have to spend a lot of time, but you
don't actually have to. It's about spending quality over quantity,
and so doing something with them and connecting with them,
(38:47):
and then using the tools that we've talked about. If
you feel yourself getting frustrated with one of them, or
maybe you find yourself that you are, try to use
the tools that we give in the book for bringing
yourself back down. But the really taking that one on
(39:09):
one time with each one of them fills up their
little tanks and they don't need to come sort of
to you so so much and feel like, oh, I'm
just spread so thin, I'm not being able to give
everybody the kind of attention that they want. Or if
(39:30):
we're doing one thing, two of them don't really like
to do said thing, so you end up having to
do a whole lot and feel like you're never quite
getting there. So that really means short amounts of time
and taking if and I'm making this up because I
(39:50):
don't know exactly what your kids like to do, but
if one likes to color, sitting for a few minutes
with them and not directing them on how to do it,
just connecting with them. And just also if one of
them likes music, listening to their music even if you
(40:13):
can't stand the music.
Speaker 1 (40:14):
Yeah, right right.
Speaker 3 (40:18):
You know that can be tough to do when you
have a velcrow child, which I think a lot of
people can relate to. But it's it's really great tips.
And I want to let you off the hook here
for a second, Zoe, because I know you said earlier
in the podcast that it's it's hard. It's so so
hard to see our kids in pain, and it's so
(40:39):
hard to tolerate sometimes the idea that we're not meeting
them at one hundred percent and completely fulfilling their needs.
And it's okay. You can trust that the absolute intention
and love and soul that you put into your kids
every single day is enough, even if they're not getting
their needs met in that moment or that day for
that week. Okay, it's enough.
Speaker 1 (41:02):
Really, I think that that's such an important I hope
that all parents hear that, you know, because it's like
you get so caught up in it and you forget
like that they're really okay m m yeah.
Speaker 2 (41:15):
And allow their and to the to the point of
all of this too, just to allow their feelings and really,
when when they come to you with something, noticing within yourself,
if you want to do the things like you know
you were talking about, like kind of want to jump
in so much, they're going to end up. And we
(41:37):
all do. I think you you know you said you
say it to your husband, like we can all say
with friends or partners or husband's wives whomever, that we
can feel unfulfilled if somebody doesn't reflect back what what
what we're feeling in the moment and that and I'm
sure you've seen it with your kids. When you do that,
(41:58):
they kind of just are like okay, you know, rather
than getting into something. And in that way, you know,
to Maria's point, you know you are seeing them and
you are giving them what they need, which is a
love and attention and care for their feelings.
Speaker 1 (42:17):
Yeah, thank you, ladies, so much. Thank you, And I
hope everybody goes out and buys the book I got mine. Yeah,
I'm excited, amazing.
Speaker 3 (42:29):
We're getting such great reviews. We're really excited. Good.
Speaker 1 (42:34):
I'm so excited for you both. Thank you, Thank you
for joining us.
Speaker 2 (42:41):
You soon, okay ye.
Speaker 1 (42:44):
Thank you so much for joining me on another episode
of What in the Winkler? Please, please please make sure
you downloaded, liked, shared, told a friend all about this podcast.
See you next week.
Speaker 2 (43:01):
Ber
You are listening to What in the Winkler and iHeartRadio podcast. Hi,
welcome back to another episode of What in the Winkler.
Today we have two very special guests, Ashley Graber and
Maria Evans. They have written a book together called Raising
Calm Kids in a World of Worry, which is right
up my alley. So let's let them in.
Speaker 2 (00:25):
Hi.
Speaker 3 (00:26):
Hi, Hi, Zoey.
Speaker 1 (00:28):
Hi Maria, Hi Ashley. Nice to meet you.
Speaker 2 (00:31):
Nice to meet you too. Thank you guys for doing this,
of course absolutely, we're so glad too.
Speaker 1 (00:42):
So thank you both for joining us. I just did
your intro, so we talked a little bit about you two,
and just you know, the book basically is all I said.
So I would love to know how you guys know
each other, how you guys connected, and what the story
is about this book.
Speaker 3 (01:03):
That's a great first question. Many many years ago I
started a networking group called Therapists of West Los Angeles,
and Ashley came to the very first meeting, and I
didn't know her, but she came right up and introduced herself,
and we knew that we were both child therapists and
parent coaches and that we had a similar angle of mindfulness.
(01:26):
And attachment theory and connection. And not too long after
there was some period where we met for tea and
we just looked at each other and we said, we
have to do something to get information out to every
parent out there, even the ones who can't afford parent
coaching or don't live in Los Angeles or you know,
the ones that were not immediately treating, and we just
we just knew that it was something we were going
(01:48):
to do together.
Speaker 1 (01:50):
Yeah, that's amazing, So full disclosure. I know Maria because
Maria worked with one of my children and she's done
some parenting work for me, and I have just felt
like a connection to Maria and Ashley. Actually I've called
you before too. I just you know, I try to
(02:15):
reach out to every therapist and alist vibally do for
full But so I I am somebody that really struggles
with anxiety, and especially after I had my first child,
I really I had postpartum anxiety, which no one had
(02:35):
really talked about. There was, you know, postpartum depression, but
I didn't even know what this was that I was
struggling with because I felt extremely connected to my child,
only almost like insanely connected to my child. So it
wasn't that. I wasn't like, you know, oh wait, that
feels weird because what you look out for, what you're
told to look out for, kind of is not feeling
(02:57):
connected to your child. And so some of some of
my kids anxieties I've always attributed to myself because like
it's hereditary. Is it hereditary? I don't even know, but
I think it is.
Speaker 3 (03:12):
Is it partly?
Speaker 1 (03:14):
Partly? And so I feel like in the last you know,
since COVID, really there's been like this huge sort of
surge in kids needing some extra help. And I don't
know if it's just because like the gentle parenting and
(03:35):
all that kind of stuff, or I don't know what,
But can you guys, do you guys see what I'm saying, Like,
because because I've called many therapists and everyone's like, we're full.
So there's gotta be you know, it's a it's a
hot topic. So so what do you guys attribute that?
Like huge sort of uptick in kids dealing with anxiety too?
Speaker 2 (03:59):
Yeah, it's there has been. And the pandemic we saw
we were probably busier than we've ever been. We were
seeing much more dramatic presentations of anxiety. And depression. There
was always anxiety and depression, but it seemed like that
(04:22):
there was definitely more of it, and I think it
was at least I can only speak to this country
the first time that we were all in our lifetimes
in something all together. And there was a sense of
kind of a normalization, a bit of a normalization that
(04:45):
also happened around anxiety and therapy and getting help at
that time, because the Surgeon General was talking about it.
Everybody was talking about out worry and anxiety, and they
were even saying to get everyone tested for it. Go
(05:07):
to your doctor, go to your therapist, and have some
kind of screening done. It was also very scary because
and I don't think I certainly have to explain this
to you or the listeners, because it was something so
incredibly unknown to sit to us. And we just when
we don't know any have any containment around something, it
(05:31):
does cause us to worry a lot more. And it
felt like at the pandemic things just went on, and
certainly in California went on and on and on.
Speaker 3 (05:46):
Yeah, you know. The other thing is anytime that there's change,
which includes the fires that just happened, we see an
uptick in anxiety.
Speaker 1 (05:53):
And I was going to say, it feels like every
second of my life raising children is like unprecedented. But
I don't know if my parents felt that way too.
I really don't know, but it's like every I mean,
the fires were terrifying, and I think I spoke to
Maria a little bit about this, because, you know, when
something scary is happening in the world, sometimes, depending on
(06:15):
the age of your kids, you can sort of protect
them from from it, you know, and give very you know,
give information, but you can sort of control the narrative.
With the fires, there was just absolutely no way to
control because you know, friends were losing their homes, you know,
(06:35):
schools were can't I mean, it was so packing things up,
you know, So I wonder do you guys also feel
like these last couple of years have also been unprecedented
for parents and for kids or is that just like
what I feel because I'm so I'm also so stressed out,
(06:56):
which is Surgeon General just said that parents are super stressed.
Speaker 3 (06:59):
That's right. Oh, absolutely, yeah, It's completely different these last
few years. I always think parents are absolute heroes. Right now,
it is so difficult to pairing in this age, and
like you said, it's a combination of just so much
coming at us and then also not knowing how to
make it feel safe for kids. And that's really why
(07:20):
we wrote the book, because we have a framework that
regardless of what's going on out there, you can still
help make it feel a little bit more contained at
home through the relationship with you as the parent, and
through the way that you talk about everything, even if
you're completely scared yourself or you have no idea what's
going to happen next, which often happens you know.
Speaker 1 (07:40):
So if you guys could give like a cliff Notes
version of your book, like what is the main what
is the main takeaway for this book?
Speaker 2 (07:50):
Well, it's a lot of what you're talking about, Zoe
that parents don't know. Is this worry? Is it? Should
I be worried? Is there more worry happening? And so
we really describe what is it, how to spot it
in your child, and then a solution to it, which
is our safer parenting method. And we really wanted parents
(08:11):
to be able to just pick up the book and
feel like they were seen in it as well. So
we give antidotes and examples and that are real life examples.
So that when a parent reads it, they can say, oh, yeah,
that is like my child or that is like me
(08:32):
and I can and they can recognize themselves in it.
Speaker 3 (08:36):
Yeah, And the basic idea we would say is all
about emotional safety. So, no matter what's going on out there,
no matter how uncontrolled it is, how can you create
emotional safety for your child so that they know I
really like myself, I belong, I have a community that
loves me, I have a parent that will come get
me no matter what's happening. And I have a parent
(08:59):
that I can come and talk to about the scary
things and so are safer. Parenting methodology is all about
how to create that sense of safety in your child
throughout their lifetime so that overall their anxiety levels stay lower,
don't rise to that real peak where it starts to
feel really unmanageable.
Speaker 2 (09:18):
While all this stuff is going on in the world
around them.
Speaker 1 (09:23):
Yeah, it's crazy. I mean it's like every day. I
mean for me at least, like I read something and
then I immediately feel anxiety. So I can imagine what
our kids hear and feel because they do hear way
more than we think that they hear, and they pick
up on way more than we think that they pick
up on, you know. So it's like it's just it's hard.
(09:47):
But writing a book with a partner, do you guys
normally like agree on things? Are there some things that
you see very differently?
Speaker 3 (09:57):
You know? Amazingly That's the thing we said throughout this
whole thread of all four years of doing this project.
Is the coolest part about this is that from both
of our expertise, every point that we want to make
we're completely aligned on.
Speaker 1 (10:10):
That's amazing.
Speaker 3 (10:11):
Yes, well it's pretty common sense. You know. The thing
that people say when they read the book is, you know,
it's so easy to read and it makes sense, and
I feel like I can apply the tools. And that's
because these are things that we know work and they're doable.
So you know, you know, as a parent, it's so
overwhelming to even have one tip or one thing to
think about for the week of Okay, I just want
(10:32):
you to try this one thing. And if you can
just hold one thing at a time, even for a
week or two and just practice it three or four times,
you're golden. I mean, that's already going to make a difference,
you know, And it's overwhelming. So I mean to make
it personal, Zoe, I would say, I think the thing
you do best as a parent on who has a
public channel is that you make it so normal. You
(10:53):
normalize the fact that parenting is hard and that parents
are overwhelmed and that there's legitimate anxiety, and that you
show up with them every single day.
Speaker 1 (11:05):
Yeah, thank you, Wria. Yeah, I mean it's very you know,
for me, I think being a parent is my most
favorite and important job. And my parents used to say
to me all the time, like it would be so
much easier to just say yes to you, like you
have no idea. We wish that we could just say yes,
(11:27):
but that wouldn't be you know, good parenting. It was
like something you know, because I would I was, I
was feisty, and I think about that all the time,
Like it's such a hard job and it feels like
in twenty twenty five, we have like less support than
ever on a job, but we're doing it. It's compounded
(11:51):
by so many outside things, but like no one's really
I mean maybe because we live in LA and it's
like everyone talks about it here and I go to
my kids go to a very like social emotional based school,
but it still feels like people don't really want to
talk about what parenting feels like. And if you want
(12:11):
to do a good job, you know, and you want
to and you want your kids to be I don't
care if my kids get straight a's, like I want
them to be kind people who really really really feel
good inside, and then they'll get the grades will come,
you know, with that, but it's really hard to know, like, Okay, well,
also as a parent, how much of this stuff is
(12:33):
my stuff and how much of this is is actually them?
Do you guys have like a way to sort of
to feel that question, like is this me?
Speaker 3 (12:41):
Is this them?
Speaker 1 (12:42):
Is what's going on?
Speaker 2 (12:45):
It's a great question. We actually kind of do both
in the book because we give those descriptions right in
the beginning of the book of what is worry and
how to spot it? And then there are at the
end of every chest there are some reflection questions for
our parents to go through, and you can really take
(13:07):
a moment and just sit with are these things that
are showing up in my child? And or are they
showing up in me? And you asked the question earlier
about is it does anxiety run in families? And it
does in the fact that if we feel tense about something,
(13:28):
that's going to be the mood, and or if we
feel angry about something, that's going to be the mood.
And so it really does give you an opportunity to
go through the book and make notes, but to parse
out what are the things that I'm seeing and if
you're seeing them in yourself as a parent, and you're
(13:49):
seeing them in your child as a parent, Okay, that's
okay because then you have the information and you know
what to do with it as a parent. Because the solution,
which is our safe parenting solution, and Maria mentioned this before,
if a parent were to open up the book and
say work on s which is set the tone, and
work on that for a long time, then things would
(14:13):
change in their family, even if they didn't also implement
the rest of the letters. We're not suggesting you don't,
but as Maria said, parenting, you all are so busy
and it's such a big job you're and there isn't
always a lot of support, so jumping in and being
able to start wherever you are, as we say as therapist,
(14:35):
but the book really does offer very clear and Maria
made mention of this earlier We wanted it to be
simple and easy to digest, so that when you are
busy in your parenting, it's easy to take in and
easy to understand.
Speaker 1 (14:52):
So what are the letters like? What you mentioned the letters?
Do you want to go over them?
Speaker 3 (14:56):
Are you ready for them? We're ready. I'm ready to
do the real quick, I guess is set the tone.
So the thing to remember is calm is contagious. Palm
is contagious, right, and so is worry. So that's all
about how do you set a calm tone at home?
How do you not catastrophize and you know, freak out
that the Amazon package hasn't arrived. Right. A is allow
(15:17):
feelings to guide behaviors. How do we get our kids
to start to breathe or jump to a coping tool
instead of throwing a shoe against the wall. F is
form identity. That's all about how do we create good
self esteem in kids. That's that belonging chapter, which is
how do we make them feel like they really have
a community? E is engaged like a pro. This one's
(15:39):
super fun. This is our therapist secrets for how to
talk to kids to get them to open up and
what parents do to stop the flow of conversation which
every parent sees themselves in that chapter, which.
Speaker 1 (15:51):
Is totally Can you give an example normal of that,
like what would be like a good question, what would
be a question to like get the flow going, and
what would turn off the flow?
Speaker 3 (16:01):
Yeah, well, we can talk about the barriers you want
to do that?
Speaker 2 (16:03):
Oh okay, Yeah, well, I want to just say in
the things that get in the way of engaging is
when we get too big, too small, or kind of
do nothing at all. So if we over maximize, so
(16:25):
we kind of get oh my gosh, what I can't
believe that this thing is happening, Or we minimize right
where we kind of dismiss something, or we just don't
do anything at all. And so the maximizing and minimizing
means we get too big or we just dismiss it
(16:48):
all together. And then the last one is fixing, and
that is the hardest one for parents because your job
in the world is to fix. And so rather than
just listen, we jump in with a solution. And we
have a tip that we really love which can help
with this, which is to ask a child, do you
(17:10):
want me to give you feedback on this? Or would
you like me to just be on your team and listen,
and in that way, you kind of know where is
the kiddo at. And they may say I don't want
you to say anything and then ask you for something
or the other can happen, But that question is a
golden question when you're just not sure what you're supposed
(17:33):
to do in the moment.
Speaker 1 (17:34):
I mean I say that to my husband sometimes, you know,
like I just I just need you to listen. I don't,
I don't need to, you know, It's like it's such an
important so to teach your children early, you know, how
to get their needs met is such a beautiful thing,
you know, in a in relationship and when you're like
kind of seeking outside help or you know, is there
(18:04):
like a specific People have asked me this before, like
when do you know if your child could benefit from therapy?
I mean, I'm a firm believer that everyone can benefit
from therapy, but what would you guys say?
Speaker 3 (18:18):
Well, one thing to know is that early intervention is great.
So the earlier you're teaching your child these tools better.
They don't necessarily have to be in therapy to learn
the tools, which is why we have the book.
Speaker 1 (18:29):
But you can learn them and then teach them exactly.
Speaker 3 (18:33):
But in terms of really taking a look at, wow,
I should really get my child some help. You want
to look at how much their symptoms are getting in
the way of daily life. So are they waking up
with tummy aches and saying I can't get I don't
want to go to school, or are they excited for
a play date and then they can't get themselves there
because of some catastrophizing they're doing, or some avoidance or fear.
(18:54):
Sometimes attachment is real big, so we see separation, anxiety, Papa,
you might see regression, you might I'm sure you're familiar
with that term, right when kids are just sort of
sliding backwards a little bit. And we saw a lot
of that in the pandemic and during the fires, and
are still seeing it now. So generally after a big event,
(19:15):
it's very normal for kids to have reactions and symptoms
for the first three or four weeks, and we say,
you know, they're having a normal reaction to an abnormal event.
But if that persists and you're seeing them really struggle
to get through their day or get their homework done
every single day, and you can see that they're super
perfectionistic let's say, and just can't get started and it's
(19:37):
really getting in the way, then it might be a
good time to get some help.
Speaker 1 (19:41):
What do you think are the big differences between parenting
today and parenting you know thirty years ago or even
ten years ago, you know, what are like the big
the big things you guys have noticed.
Speaker 2 (19:58):
One thing that I would say for sure is that
we know more about the body and the brain and
the connection between the two, and we have more science
and more research around how our brains are formed and
what the effects are the things around us, and we
(20:20):
just didn't know those things before. So that's one of
the big differences. I think it was a very authoritarian
kind of parenting, and so it was like kind of
do as I say, just do it. And I often
will hear parents say, well, when I was a child,
(20:40):
my parents didn't have to ask me a number of times.
I just did it. But what I'll often hear also
is that that parent was very big in the way
that they said those things, or maybe threatening in the
way that they said those things. And we know that
those things now, we know those things make impressions on
our brain and in our way of functioning in the world,
(21:02):
and so we now allow for more feelings and we
know that if we do that, kids grow up learning
how to and I think you said it before, speak
for themselves, know how they feel. And it's not based
on allowing any behavior, every behavior, which I think is
(21:25):
what was sort of missing in the past, that there
was this idea that if you allowed a feeling, then
you were also allowing any and every behavior to happen.
And it's very different today. We definitely want to teach
children how they feel and to use their feelings, but
not necessarily to have every behavior. And I'll just say
(21:47):
something funny that Marie and I laugh about a lot,
because we'll teach parents to work with their children and
allow their feelings and talk about their feelings, and then
they'll come back to us and say, well, now they're
telling me they're mad. Yes, yes they are.
Speaker 1 (22:09):
I mean I've read there, there's that, There's that. I
think it's a quote like all feelings are welcome, all
behaviors are not. Yes, did my friend Elisa say that?
I don't even know what I post.
Speaker 3 (22:20):
Definitely talks about.
Speaker 1 (22:20):
That, Alisa.
Speaker 3 (22:21):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (22:22):
Elisa Pressman, who's been on my podcast and is a
good friend of mine and I I love that, you know,
because it is it is I want my kids to
feel all the feelings. But you know, the way in
which we have to live in the world is like
we have to feel those feelings and then we have
to like behave accordingly when when we're you know, like
(22:43):
trying to just be human beings, which is and it's
it's its own right, really difficult to just sort of
like be in this world sometimes with all the different
stuff going on, and like now the social media stuff,
it's I I just a just got Instagram. He's thirteen.
(23:03):
He had to get honors in order to get it.
And Rob and I all the time are like, did
we make a mistake, Like, you know, he was the
last of his friends to get it. Well they all
have Snapchat, which we didn't. We felt like wasn't you know,
But but it's such an interesting because then you realize
(23:27):
also like, oh, well, now he's going to see what
I post too, you know, like as the parent, and
I'm always like, oh my god, wait, I can't say that.
Oh my gosh, wait that's picture, you know what I mean.
Not that I'm doing anything so crazy, you know, but
it's like it's this weird place to be in with
kids as they get older, you know, like they say,
bigger kids, bigger problems, which I didn't believe at the
(23:49):
time because I was like, I just he doesn't sleep,
you know. But now it's like he's going to go
to this party and what I'm not there? What, you know,
what's going to happen, you know, So I don't know.
It's it's but what do you guys feel about, like
the social media stuff?
Speaker 3 (24:03):
Do you have like a first of all, welcome to
parenting a teenager?
Speaker 1 (24:06):
Oh my god, I know.
Speaker 3 (24:09):
But yeah, you know, it's such a fine line. It's
such a tricky it's such a tricky thing to figure
out because you're weighing their social status in terms of,
you know, you don't want them to get ostracized because
they're the only ones with right. Yeah, obviously Rob didn't care.
Speaker 1 (24:26):
Rob was like I don't care, and I was like,
well I do. So we got to like, you know,
I can't be like, you know, the total like just
like last of it.
Speaker 3 (24:35):
You know, we have to look out for their social yeah,
at least a little bit. I mean it makes a difference,
you know, when they're growing up obviously, and then there's
all the safety stuff, and you know, they're I mean,
kids are having to field messages from strangers pretending to
be thirteen, fourteen years old, and I mean it's really tricky.
You just have to teach them as much as you
possibly can about it, and then also teach them and
(24:58):
enforce boundaries around minimal usage, which is really hard to
do because as adults, we were never taught that when
we got phones, right, but this is a new generation,
and so we can teach them to have different habits
with their phones.
Speaker 2 (25:14):
I would be yeah, And I would add to what
Maria just said as well, is that it sounds like
you have a relationship with him and you're talking with
him about it. And that's a really important piece of it.
Is to also, in addition to what Maria said, also
be in conversation and if you are engaging your child,
(25:37):
if you are spending time with them, if you are
allowing their feelings and not doing those roadblocks so to speak,
too much, because we all do them, then they're going
to come and talk to you about things. And so
that allows you to kind of let go a little
bit into what is inevitable in their lives, lives, which
(26:01):
is that this is part of it that is inevitable.
Speaker 1 (26:04):
Is social which is part of our world?
Speaker 2 (26:06):
Now?
Speaker 1 (26:16):
Is there one thing that you wish more parents sort
of new? Is there one piece of like? Is there
one thing that you're just like that you see over
and over and over again that you're like, I wish,
I wish, I wish this was just like known or
(26:37):
too many?
Speaker 3 (26:38):
There is one really really interesting little secret, one that
we don't often talk about, but that just popped into
my head, which is, are you ready for this?
Speaker 1 (26:47):
I'm ready.
Speaker 3 (26:49):
All kids read their parents' phones, I know all so.
Speaker 1 (26:56):
And by the way I read his phone, there is so.
Speaker 3 (26:59):
Good that they're much more tech savvy than any parent realize.
Speaker 1 (27:03):
It's crazy, I know.
Speaker 3 (27:05):
And so just and what I'll say is not every
single one, just to just for any kids and parents
listening who are in my practice, not every single single one, okay,
but most and many. So just beware that if you're
having an adult conversation via text message that you don't
want your kid's eyes on, it's probably a good idea
(27:27):
to be mindful of that.
Speaker 1 (27:28):
That's so true. In fact, one of my friends texted
me the other day through WhatsApp because she was like,
this way, they won't read it. And I was dying laughing,
like it's just it's a crazy that they can. And
I say to Ace all the time. My other kids
don't have phones, but I say to Ace all the time, like,
I will read your text messages, like just so you know,
(27:52):
and like and then and then Rob is like, but
then he's just going to erase them. It's hard. It's
hard to know when you're like being overbearing and then
or just being you know.
Speaker 3 (28:08):
To Ashley's point, I think the most the more transparent
you can be and the better relationship that you cultivate
through the years, the more of a chance your child
will come to you and those those moments that they
really need you.
Speaker 2 (28:19):
You know.
Speaker 3 (28:20):
Now you look a lot of stuff up online, but
at the end of the day, nothing really beats your parents'
advice when you know you can get it, you know,
and you know you can trust them. So it's definitely
worth all of those years before to just invest that
time into becoming that safe parent that they can ask questions.
Speaker 1 (28:39):
My parents told me this and I and I did
it with my kids. I said, like, as long as
you tell the truth, like, you'll never get in trouble
if you tell the truth, you know, and and I
and and my parents one of the most important things
was that they didn't just say that and then I
would get in trouble. They stuck to it. So if
I came to them and I told them the truth
and I you know, my kids like I'm to ask
(29:00):
you this, I'm going to ask you it now. If
you tell me the truth, we're good. If you don't
tell me the truth, there's gonna be a consequence, you know,
or there's gonna be whatever. And also the other thing
is I said to Ace, now, I will always come
pick you up, like no questions asked. But if you
call me and you're like uh, or you text me
and you're like I don't want to stay, I don't
(29:22):
feel comfortable here, or you know, whatever it is. I mean,
he's only thirteen, so it's not like his friends are driving.
But Dad and I will always come. One of us
will come get you, and there will be no consequence.
There will be not you know, like we don't even
have to talk about it, but you always have that option.
And those are two things my parents did which I
felt like was ahead of their time. I mean, I'm
forty four, but my dad grew up in a super
(29:45):
abusive household, verbally abusive, and so he wanted to make
sure that we always felt really safe. And it's something that, like,
I'm so grateful for because it created this bond where
this day, I call my parents, you know, I talked.
If I'm having a bad day, I call my dad
and we talk it through, you know. And so I
(30:09):
learned that from them. But I think all the time, like,
had I hadn't, had I not learned that from my dad,
I wouldn't know to say those things, you know. So
it's so great that you, people like you two exist
to create those safe places for kids. I mean, that's
all you That's all I wants as a forty four
year old, let alone for my children.
Speaker 2 (30:29):
You know, we bring up something so important because we
do so often what was modeled to us. So what
we see parents doing is they do the same thing
their parents did if it is something that felt good
to them, or they go in the complete opposite direction.
But we don't know until or unless something is modeled
(30:52):
to us. And that's part of what we're teaching in
the book, is that to set these stages is for
kids to be able to come to you. And you
were making me think, Zoe, I'm in my early fifties,
and so we had this contract that we all signed
when we were younger that said we would call our
(31:14):
parents if we were anywhere and anyone was going to
drive drunk and there was you didn't. Everyone agreed that
you wouldn't talk about it that night, And it's what
we talk about in the book of It gives the
child a safe place, like you're talking about, to come to,
but it also gives a parent a chance to cool
(31:34):
off a little bit from something that is scary, because
getting that phone call is scary. The million things that
go through your mind and that moment, what have they
been into, what's happening? Are they safe? Can I get
there to them fast enough? And so it really does
as you're saying, as you're explaining, it gives that little
bit of space to be able to say, Okay, we
(31:57):
can come back to this another time and talk about it.
We don't have to in this moment.
Speaker 1 (32:03):
Yeah, it gives it some And also like there's that thing.
I actually just got an email from my middle son's
baseball coach that was like, if you guys, if parents
have something that they are upset about, like playing time
or whatever, please wait twenty four hours before sending that email. Now,
I am the most reactive person on this planet. Like
(32:26):
in fact, I got in trouble ones at aces baseball
game when he played club because in between games, I
went and spoke to the coach and I like learned
my lesson and I'll never do that again. But I
thought it was such a great piece of advice because
I like, will just immediately, you know. And and for me,
(32:47):
and Maria knows this, my kids feeling hurt is too
much for me to bear as a human being, Like
I cannot. I want to solve it right away. I
you know, will. I mean, I've said things to kids
like I'm like an unwell person when it comes to
that kind of thing. And so it's really like, I
don't know, it's like that seems to be the golden rules.
(33:11):
Take a breath, take a minute. You know, in every
way when you're dealing with your kids, when you're dealing
with other kids, when you're dealing well, I shouldn't be
dealing with any other kids, but adults, whatever it is,
you know, it's really important.
Speaker 3 (33:23):
Take a beat, take a beat, see if you still
care a little bit later. You know I will, But
also we'll see if you care enough to march up there.
It's still and you know, we didn't get to letter R.
But we're talking about it, which is role modeling. And
it's not just being a good role model, you know,
which we've heard for years and years, but it's about
modeling the skills that you want your kids to pick
(33:44):
up on. Because there's sponges. It's much harder to tell
them what to do than to show them, and so
to take that beat and to narrate it out loud.
You know, I really wanted to walk up to that coach,
and you know what, I remembered that if I sit
there for a few minutes, maybe I won't. And that's
really good modeling. And the other thing we talk about
is really letting your children in sooner than you think
(34:07):
you should on family dynamics and things that are going
on in the home that are unsolved. And you can
do it in an age appropriate way where you're minimally sharing,
but kids can feel and pick up on when there's
tension or when you know, maybe there's addiction in the
family or when when there's an absent person, right, And
in the past, people used to just ignore that completely.
(34:28):
And so what we recommend to keep anxiety down is
to name it and just say, have you noticed, this
is what's going on, and this is how I can
explain it to you. And if you're feeling some kind
of way about it, I'm here to listen. You know.
Speaker 1 (34:44):
That's amazing. Thank you guys so much. Thank you, You're
so welcome.
Speaker 2 (34:49):
Thank you for having us.
Speaker 1 (34:51):
Yeah, I'm so glad.
Speaker 3 (34:52):
This was great, such a good conversation.
Speaker 2 (34:55):
Yeah, I feel like we could talk all day.
Speaker 1 (34:58):
I know, I know, really could, I like, but I
was just going over all my questions and we answered
them all.
Speaker 3 (35:04):
That's awes.
Speaker 1 (35:06):
Yeah, any yeah, it's crazy, like I can't even.
Speaker 3 (35:10):
So we ask you some questions now, Joe, go ahead, Okay,
what is well you already you already talked about one
thing that you got from your parents that you do. Right.
What is one way that your parenting has changed over
the last five years that you're really proud of.
Speaker 1 (35:32):
Well, one of the ways is something you helped me with,
which was when my kids would when my kids would
feel anxious, I would solve it instead of you know
that that's actually kind of feeding into their anxiety more
So instead of just saying like Okay, yeah you can
come home or okay, yeah don't go or oh you
know that, I would sort of say like, oh yeah,
(35:53):
I know that that's really hard, but you're going to
stay at school or you're gonna you know. And I
think that just like that frame of like just seeing
exactly what it is that you what you're at, what
you're doing as a parent, even though your intentions are
too obviously make them more comfortable and take away their anxiety,
(36:15):
that that actually just creates more anxiety. So that's something
that I've really been working on. You know, all three
of my kids are so different. They're just such different people,
and that's just who they are. That's how they came
into this world. You know, we we they're all in
(36:35):
this house. They're growing up in this house. They have
Rob and I as their parents, but they're so different.
So things that worked for Ace might not work for Jewels,
may not work for Gus. You know, It's it's really
sort of like also disengaging more for me has been.
But there was one question that and and I and
(36:59):
I I don't know, and I guess you guys answered it.
But how can I create a home where everyone sort
of needs or met even though they're so different? You know,
like my my middle is extremely independent. My youngest is
so obsessed with me that you know, like I can't
(37:20):
even like go anywhere in the house, and our house
we don't have any locks, so it's literally like I
just have absolutely nowhere to go. I would have to
climb on the roof, I guess. And then my oldest
is so he's also independent now, but he's he's getting
to the he's he's very tuned in to me and Rob.
So like if ever I, you know, am annoyed about
(37:43):
something else, he'll say like did I do something? And
you know it's about a fight I had with Rob?
Or like a I burnt the broccoli or something, you
know what I mean? Like, so, what are what is
I guess that list is how you make sure that
everyone in the family is contained, right.
Speaker 2 (38:02):
One of the things that I think that it's just
a quick tip that you could try, because it is.
This is kind of the biggest parenting trick, isn't it.
It's like, once you figure out one kidd And the
next one, yeah, is to spend a little bit of
(38:26):
one on one time with each of them and to
do something that they want to do. Now that's a
big ask when you have three children if you think, oh,
I have to spend a lot of time, but you
don't actually have to. It's about spending quality over quantity,
and so doing something with them and connecting with them,
(38:47):
and then using the tools that we've talked about. If
you feel yourself getting frustrated with one of them, or
maybe you find yourself that you are, try to use
the tools that we give in the book for bringing
yourself back down. But the really taking that one on
(39:09):
one time with each one of them fills up their
little tanks and they don't need to come sort of
to you so so much and feel like, oh, I'm
just spread so thin, I'm not being able to give
everybody the kind of attention that they want. Or if
(39:30):
we're doing one thing, two of them don't really like
to do said thing, so you end up having to
do a whole lot and feel like you're never quite
getting there. So that really means short amounts of time
and taking if and I'm making this up because I
(39:50):
don't know exactly what your kids like to do, but
if one likes to color, sitting for a few minutes
with them and not directing them on how to do it,
just connecting with them. And just also if one of
them likes music, listening to their music even if you
(40:13):
can't stand the music.
Speaker 1 (40:14):
Yeah, right right.
Speaker 3 (40:18):
You know that can be tough to do when you
have a velcrow child, which I think a lot of
people can relate to. But it's it's really great tips.
And I want to let you off the hook here
for a second, Zoe, because I know you said earlier
in the podcast that it's it's hard. It's so so
hard to see our kids in pain, and it's so
(40:39):
hard to tolerate sometimes the idea that we're not meeting
them at one hundred percent and completely fulfilling their needs.
And it's okay. You can trust that the absolute intention
and love and soul that you put into your kids
every single day is enough, even if they're not getting
their needs met in that moment or that day for
that week. Okay, it's enough.
Speaker 1 (41:02):
Really, I think that that's such an important I hope
that all parents hear that, you know, because it's like
you get so caught up in it and you forget
like that they're really okay m m yeah.
Speaker 2 (41:15):
And allow their and to the to the point of
all of this too, just to allow their feelings and really,
when when they come to you with something, noticing within yourself,
if you want to do the things like you know
you were talking about, like kind of want to jump
in so much, they're going to end up. And we
(41:37):
all do. I think you you know you said you
say it to your husband, like we can all say
with friends or partners or husband's wives whomever, that we
can feel unfulfilled if somebody doesn't reflect back what what
what we're feeling in the moment and that and I'm
sure you've seen it with your kids. When you do that,
(41:58):
they kind of just are like okay, you know, rather
than getting into something. And in that way, you know,
to Maria's point, you know you are seeing them and
you are giving them what they need, which is a
love and attention and care for their feelings.
Speaker 1 (42:17):
Yeah, thank you, ladies, so much. Thank you, And I
hope everybody goes out and buys the book I got mine. Yeah,
I'm excited, amazing.
Speaker 3 (42:29):
We're getting such great reviews. We're really excited. Good.
Speaker 1 (42:34):
I'm so excited for you both. Thank you, Thank you
for joining us.
Speaker 2 (42:41):
You soon, okay ye.
Speaker 1 (42:44):
Thank you so much for joining me on another episode
of What in the Winkler? Please, please please make sure
you downloaded, liked, shared, told a friend all about this podcast.
See you next week.
Speaker 2 (43:01):
Ber
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