November 19, 2020 • 42 mins
A special episode of What’s Her Story with Sam & Amy, recording for the first time with a LIVE audience at the Mom 2.0 Summit with actress Marcia Cross. Marcia, known for her roles on Melrose Place and Desperate Housewives, shares what it was like to play such iconic characters while also living through the dramas in her own life of motherhood and brushes with cancer. She is wonderfully humble and teaches us an important lesson of ignoring the haters and doing what you believe is right.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hi, I'm Sam and I'm Amy, and this is what's
her story with Sam and Amy. And today we are
super excited because we're trying something new. We are going
to be the first ever live podcast that is born
out of our favorite mom conference, Mom two point oh,
(00:22):
a conference that Amy and I have been attending and
speaking at for years, and this time, because we are
in the age of a pandemic, everything's online. So we
are doing our podcast live. And we were asked to
invite one special guest, and we went back and forth
over inspiring women that we wanted to invite, and you
(00:43):
first suggested that we interview an actress. And I have
to admit that I was a little bit skeptical because
it is not typical of who we invite on this show.
But that said, Marcia is different. She inspired me because
she is a mother, she's a cancer survivor, she's the
wife of a count survivor, and she's had a really
remarkable career doing a bunch of different things. And she's
(01:05):
just this really real person with real stories and a
really real career. There's something about Marcia that she's just
different than the typical actress. Right, She's had so much
longevity in her career, and she's very open about her
ups and downs, even just how she met her husband,
which I think people are gonna love hearing that story.
But there's something about her that is so genuine and
(01:29):
just so warm and also so relatable. So I'm really
excited for for you to meet her. So let's jump in.
Part of the reason we wanted to start this podcast
is because we've always felt really strongly that we hear
so much about you know, what Ja Jeff Bezos ate
for breakfast and what Bill Gates likes to read, and
(01:51):
we don't hear enough of that information about women and
women's stories, and so we have always exchanged tons of
stories about our lives. It also the women we admire,
and so this podcast is an opportunity for us to
interview our favorite women and the women who are icons
of their industry. Last week we launched with a joint
interview with Glenn and Doyle and Abby Wombach, So I
(02:13):
encourage you to go back and listen to that. That
was definitely they shared things with us that they've never
shared before, and her their avid fans say that it
was a lot of new information. And part two of
that interview comes out tomorrow, so every Thursday we have
a new episode that drops. But in the meantime, Marcia
Cross has been a part of my life. I'm lucky
enough to say since two thousand five when Marcia was
(02:38):
pregnant with twins and she co hosted my book party,
and I just immediately was drawn to her. She is
not only such a successful person, but such a good hearted,
thoughtful person that has come across through everything she does,
including her current activism, her career. And one of the
things that I'm really excited for us to share with
(02:59):
you today about Marcia's story that I think a lot
of you will relate to is one um she found
love a little bit later in life and had her
kids in her mid forties UM and is now a
cancer survivor and has gone through a lot of other
things in her journey to the top. You might know
Marcia most famously for two of her roles. One is
(03:20):
in Melrose Place and the other is in Desperate Housewives.
So Marcia, thank you so much for being here. We
are just thrilled to happy today today. I'm very happy
to be here. As I said earlier, I a little
bit of a funny introvert, extrovert. But I'm really happy
that you asked, and I'm happy that I said yes.
Although as I said, the accolades were to writing books
(03:41):
and children and my goodness, your impressive women. Well it's
so funny because when when when you were saying you're
an introvert, I had said to Laura when you first
agreed to do this, I was like, Laura, you don't understand.
She doesn't say yes that many things. I mean, she
is like hard to get because she's shy and she
does didn't love doing stuff like this. She she would
(04:02):
rather just like leave it to someone else. And I
think that that's one of kind of the most charming
things about you in many ways, is how humble you are. Um,
one of the things I was going to ask about,
just in looking back at your career that's so fascinating
to me, is there was a big gap between melrose
Place and Desperate Housewives. What was it like? Because I
(04:24):
know that so many people who were watching right now,
so many of you have probably had either gaps in
your career or a roller coaster of highs and lows.
How did you weather that? How many years was it
and what was like? You. Well, first of all, that
is a fantastic question because people always want to know
about the you know, the highs and everything's great. And
I remember that when, um, when I was doing Desperate Housewives,
(04:47):
it was so important for me when I would speak
to an interviewer to say, I really want to tell
you about what happened the last ten years, because I
think it's people will go like, oh, you know, everything
just happens like that. It was like, no, I mean,
I did not always place. It was not my dream
job because I had come from Juilliard and I wanted
to be you know, film actress and stage actress. And
(05:09):
while I was doing that, I was with a man
and he died of a brain tumor, which was horrific
um and so I stayed with the show and I
kind of acted all that and sanity out in that place,
which was wonderful. And then when it was over, my
career was really at a standstill because I was so iconic, right,
you get was on a soap. So I'm not in
(05:31):
the level of the career that I want to be at,
and I'm now known as this thing, and you know,
it's like it's just two sides of the coin. It's
like great too. You know, I was heralded on that
show is really you know, bringing it to life Heather.
Of course you know the MAINI drag, but you know,
adding my own brand of crazy. And then I couldn't
(05:53):
get arrested or I couldn't get any jobs that were
of interest to me. And during that time, I'm started
talking so much for someone who said she was an introvert.
So I gonna make it fast. No, we want to
hear this. So I got a lad A class in
psychology because I was always interested in psychology. So during
that time, I took another class. So I'd take a
few more classes, and all of a sudden, I went,
(06:15):
oh my god, I have all my credits except for
my clinical hours. Well, I guess I'll go get my
clinical hours. And I worked in Beverly Hills at the
Maple Counseling Center and I started seeing clients and honestly,
I really loved it. And I was at a crossroads
and it wasn't to make believe Prosperos. It really was, Okay,
I have to decide. And right at that point, I
(06:35):
had an audition for a show called Everwood and it
was really a girlfriend. As it's often the case, it's
the women are in our lives who said, no, this
is good writing. You're gonna put on your big girl
in the pants and get out there and do this audition.
I was like, okay, okay, and of course I got it.
It's shout in Utah. So I kept going flying UM
to l A to see my clients, then go back
(06:56):
there to shoot. But I still thought, well, I'm really
still going to leave the business because I wanted to
have a baby. Oh my god, I'm telling you so much.
I love it. Okay, you were thing, you were single
at the time, and you just said you were going
to adopt a baby or what how it that could
learned to adopt a baby. So I started looking into adoption.
(07:16):
And when I got the audition for Desperate Housewives, I
went in there and I said I would like to
just for the narrator because I thought, oh, I'm going
to be a single mom. That would be the perfect job.
But Mark Jerry was like, no, I want you to
read for Bree or whatever. So I did that UM,
and then I had a call back for that, and
I remember on the same day that UM, I went
(07:38):
back to Utah. I got a phone call that I
had gotten the part of Desperate Housewives and a baby.
A couple that I had met with had agreed to
give away their child to me. So it was like
my head just exploded, you know, after ten years of
nothing like the university, I mean, who knows, like why
are lives? You know, Well, I'm sorry, but we have
(08:03):
to know what happened to that child, because I know
that you have twins, so happy to say that child
didn't make it. I was scoring, Um, it was a
little boy, and unfortunately he did not make it, which
was really really sad and devastating at the time. I
went on to the pilot. The show got picked up,
and shortly after that I met my husband, and shortly
(08:24):
after that we had twins. So oh my god. You know,
it was like, which way is it going to go?
But dam has told me that she has heard from
you the amazing story of how you met your husband.
And you know Sam mentioned in the beginning so many
of our friends met their husbands later in life, so
how did you meet come? Well? Okay, So I had
completely given up on meeting a man because when I
(08:46):
got to be thirty six or thirty seven. At that time,
I thought, what are we gonna do? Data man for
five minutes ago? Are you you know? Can you be
to follow my child? This is not going to happen,
which is why I started looking into adoption. And then
one day I was crossing the street and I saw
this man from behind. I mean, it's crazy, and rolled
up sleeves, white shirt and he was writing. And it
(09:09):
was a tiny store and I followed him around and
I couldn't rely see his face, so it wasn't like, oh,
you know whatever, and I just couldn't figure out what
I was doing. And then I realized I gotta get
out of here, like this is stalking. This is so crazy.
And I was leaving and there was a woman outside
what kind of store like that? It was a flower shop? Okay,
(09:29):
it's called the Woods and it was a beautiful flower shop.
And I heard him telling the um sales ley how
he wanted his flowers delivered, and he had a beautiful voice.
And so when I was there, I said, who is
that guy? Because I thought, well, maybe it's somebody you
know in l A. How you've seen someone you think
you know them. I'm no different, right, And she said oh,
he's nobody, which is like the best answer I could
(09:49):
have heard for somebody I want to go out with,
because it means he's like a regular guy. And she said,
do you want to leave your phone number? And I
thought why not? So I wrote him a little there
and I said if it doesn't work out, because I
thought he could have been flow, you know, buying flowers
for a woman, not you know, his mother, and left
my phone number, and then I left the store. A
(10:11):
little while later I saw him come running out and
I hid in my car and I was like, what
have I done? But then back and then how long
after did he call you? Well, that's kind of a
great story too, because um, well two things he called
and I don't know, I didn't get the call, which
is very me like, I'm you know, this was way
back in the day of answering machines. And his friend said, oh,
(10:33):
she's not going to call you. Don't call her back.
And he realized that he had dialed the wrong number
because he did the wrong UM area code, because he
was in eight one eight at the time anyway, So
he called back and it was the morning of the
golden glow of my phone was ringing off the hook.
We've been nominated, you know, we'd all but it was
like such a fantastic morning. In the middle of it
(10:54):
was Tom asking me out to dinner, and you know,
and said yes, and we met. That was before the holidays,
and we met after the holidays and dated for probably
less than a year, and here we are. I have
who was he buying flowers for another woman there? But
(11:16):
he says it wasn't that serious. So you know, I
feel like that was his call. And I think she's
got married to now. So yeah, And so you dated
for less than a year, got married, and then you
had your your twin daughters, and so you were working
while you got pregnant and you know, carried twins. What
was that like, working while pregnant and how did that go?
(11:40):
It's so funny because you know, anytime you do something
in life at the age you're at, you do it
because that's what you do. Like, there was no question
that we're going to have children. There was no question
that time was running out, the fact that I was
on this fantastic show. Like now I look back and
I go that wassy like you know, and I'm sure
it didn't make mar jurry very happy, but you know,
people wasn't and um, it was really hard. I was
(12:02):
very very noxious at first. Um I popped. I mean,
I just like my but my the sound guy, the
boom mock rave was likely going on there, you could tell.
And you know, of course with twins, you know, I
was like I remember squeezing out, was getting married at
the time and just being like, oh and anyway, but
(12:22):
I did it, you know, And then I had these
two beautiful babies, and h the writers strike went on
right if they were born, so I got extra time
to be home with them and off to work I
went after that, and it was actually wonderful. And how
was it different becoming a mother in your forties then
(12:46):
it might have been if you'd had kids ten years earlier. Wow, well,
I don't know because I didn't. You know. It's like
it's like if I had a single child. Who knows, right, Um,
I certainly I think in my third ease, I really
wasn't right there, So you know, I didn't have tons
and I can't even picture it, um, but there is
(13:07):
certainly a very present feeling you have because you've been
through a lot. So it's not you're not torn all
the time. So I was working, um, and I was
dealing with the pressures of being and you know, having
two big jobs at the same time. It wasn't it
was wonderful. It was really really wonderful. So um, I
think now I see it more getting older, like you
(13:30):
don't want to be too old because we are human
and we age. So um, though it is possible, it's
certainly lovely if you can meet, you know, your partner earlier.
So yeah, so it takes us through to you're on
on desperate house fights for a long time and then
(13:51):
you're raising kids and Tom gets cancer. Wow, okay, well
that was um. So I just flashed on that morning.
I remember it was like near Thanksgiving and I had
a picture of the girls you need trace your hands
making the turkeys, and the phone rang and I heard
(14:12):
him pick up the phone and I could tell that
the doctor or maybe he told me the doctor wants
him to come back in something like whatever it was,
I knew my blood ran cold, and I went, that's it.
I know it, I know it. And sure enough he
had throat cancer. And any thing I can say is
that much to my surprise, my boyfriend who had passed
(14:34):
away when he was really had had died of a
brain tumor. And I am. I am not the most
brilliant mother, like details, you know, the day to days,
their milk and the frisit like all that, you know,
my friends, but I was. I am great in a crisis,
and I was. I became like as fierce as you.
I mean, we flew here, we threw there so every
(14:55):
doctor we could, I learned everything I could um and
then ultimately he made his choice of where he wanted
treatment and we stayed here and I was working, I
had two young kids, and I was taking care of him,
so I would go like from work to the hospital
to the kids. That was a really crazy, crazy time
(15:16):
and luckily he's fine. So yeah, it was I'm scary, scary.
That is scary, And you know, I wonder sometimes I
think in the most chaotic parts of our life, they're
the scariest parts. We don't remember the day to day.
But I read something an article or an interview that
you gave where you talked about how your twins were
(15:37):
so little that you didn't tell them about Tom's cancer
because it wasn't abnormal to them. Whatever your normal was
was normal to the absolutely do you remember what it
was like trying to parent through grief or fear? Well
they yeah, they didn't know, so that you know, he
(15:57):
was just told. When I looked back at the pictures,
now I go. But at the time I didn't feel
that way because honestly, even as the for me as
the caretaker, all that gets shut down, I was not weeping.
I was in action, right, So I'm not like there
was only one time post that when I was thought
maybe had a recurrence that I remember feeling that fear
(16:17):
that could actually melt your body. But while I was
taking care of him, there was just no way that
he was not going to make it. It was just
a question of what do I need to do today,
what prescription needs to be filled? And I also, as
I say this, I think of the people that were
in my life then, my assistant who was handled like
insurance things and all that. And I had a great
nanny or two, you know, like I had. I had
(16:39):
a house full of help. So we cannot imagine having
done all that without you know, full support. Um sort.
That's a side note for those of you have anybody watching.
Thank you, I love you. Jeffy, jo Ja anyway, um
you asked me, Oh so, but they were fine. They
were just he Tom would be sitting there like it
(16:59):
was like he was a jump in the living room
because if by the end he was in so much
pain that he was on so much narcotics. Because I
wouldn't wish it on well, maybe one person. I wouldn't
wish it to anybody someone sailors from that and I
really wouldn't wish it on anybody. Um So, but they
didn't know. Like Tom would put in a feeding tube
(17:20):
and so said would pretend like she's gonna go eat
and put it into or he clears through it a lot.
So they'd be like, you know, it's just kids are mimics,
you know, they don't but they have nothing on it.
So it didn't I didn't really, they didn't notice. It's interesting,
you know, kids, they just roll didn't know anything. No.
(17:41):
I get that. My kids are young, they're one to six,
and they have just kind of rolled with this change
in life with the pandemic, just kind of seamlessly, oh right,
totally normal that we don't do anything or go anywhere anymore.
That's cool, right, Like they don't even notice that it's abnormal. Yeah,
even my kids, they really don't complain much fourteen and
it's like okay, you know, they just sure they'd like
(18:06):
it to be different, but they're okay. Well. And then
in the last few years you had another just awful
health scare and diagnosis, and at that point your kids
are old enough to understand what was going on. Yeah,
I think that in many ways was harrier because because
(18:28):
they were older, and I was really worried about what
to do, whether I wanted to go through treatment here
or go to another hospital and stay out of town
because I just didn't know how I would be through it,
and I didn't want to scare them, and ultimately I
wanted to staying home. And I had unbelievable around the
clock girlfriends who took care of me. And then my husband,
(18:49):
who's less of a nurturer and more of a guy guy,
get it done, get it a you know, he like
took care of those girls like you know, pants like fabulous,
just he did it all and um. And then it
was a little hard coming back from because I think
even though they don't talk about it, I noticed little
glitches of like when you start to realize like maybe
(19:13):
they didn't think anything was really going to happen to me,
but that there's that possibility, you know, it's always it's
it's jarring, like your mother's not supposed to be sick.
It's your childhood, it shouldn't be hers. It's that that's
that feeling as our kids are. I know our kids
are very similar in age, and I do feel like
they're so kind of reactive to everything that goes on
(19:35):
with our parents at this point because it's always in
relation to them and what they're going through. When you
were first diagnosed with anal cancer, what was that like
for you? Do you remember that moment? You remember Tom
so vividly? Do you remember your moment? Well, I can
tell you. And I think this is really important. Although
(19:55):
millennial moms are probably more dealing with diagnoses of having
age PV right now, which we should talk about. But um,
you know, as a post amount a puzzle woman, I
was in I was supposed to go to my gun
a cologist. I hadn't realized I hadn't been there in
so long. I'm like, I just wanted to know my prescription.
She said, no, you have to come in, and I'm
annoyed because I feel like I just I feel like
(20:16):
I was just there right because life goes like that.
So I go in and I love my guy in college.
She gives me an exam, and then the next thing
I know, she says, she goes out and makes a
phone call. Comes back. I'm on the phone checking in thing.
So I want to go down and see this woman
down the street who you know, I feel something. I
was like, Okay, I left, and I thought, I miss
my daughter's basketball game. Am I really gonna go here?
(20:38):
I don't want to miss it. She just made the
pointment I should go. I went to the thing. This
woman gives me an exam. She comes around the table
and I felt like it now like it was a
Larry David episode. She goes, I just want to tell
you whatever it is, it's curable. And it was at
that moment that I left my body and was like, what, Like,
whenever you say curable, you know it's a relation to cancer.
(20:59):
So I didn't know what. And the next thing I knew,
they were scheduling me for biopsy like it was Halloween
was the next day. It was the day after. As
soon as they could get me cleaned out in and
then from there it went on. I kind of went
into a state of denial. I had a couple of
different biopsies. It took a long time for me to
get my head around the fact that it was actually
were real. Um. But that being said, it was real,
(21:24):
and uh, I didn't have to go through treatment, and
I'm fine. I'm so grateful because and any women you
know who are going to the Gunda collegist or have
any symptoms. And by the way, I had zero symptoms.
This was just because she does digital rectal exams as
part of her She just retired old school, super thorough
and she just happened to feel something. And that's really
(21:49):
I'm now working with a you know, a group of
a new alliance, that HPV alliance to get this sea's
kind of nobody's department the anus. Nobody wants to claim
and nobody wants to talk about it. I frankly met
awe of it now, so you know, it has to
be take care of, right, It's part of our body
and um HPV anal cancers on the rise in uh
(22:10):
post menopausal women, um so, and and then for young women.
Of course, what I didn't realize as I was going
through it I learned from reading my computer endlessly was
that there was all of the shame that people around
the world, across America were telling people they had some
other kind of cancer and they were embarrassed. And I
am really old school in New England. I was like,
(22:32):
this ridiculous, it's your ain is like, you didn't do anything,
you know, I don't. I don't have any shame around that.
I didn't feel like. I mean, I haven't had a
while with sex life, right, and you know I did
get married later, so I don't know UM. But I
just really and that's the only reason I came out
and talked about it was because I hated that people
were a going on diagnosed because they were too embarrassed
(22:54):
to go to doctors and and be living with all
the shame that I just thought, Yeah, that's not necessary.
Can you talk about HPV because I think for people,
a lot of people don't even understand it. And I
will tell you that I didn't understand it either, because honestly,
(23:15):
had I truly understood it, I would have known or thought, Okay,
my husband had um HPV related throw cancer. UM. He
had had a biopsy to prove that that was true.
But it came back inconclusive. But any sort of middle
aged man who's not like smoking incessantly or drinking a
lot has probably gotten it from HPV. UM. Of course
(23:38):
I wasn't adept at HPP then I get it. So
that's why I finally learned about it, because it's all interrelated. Now. Truthfully,
we could independently have gotten it years ago and just
this could be completely unrelated. Because um, it's a virus,
much like the virus that's going around now. Almost everybody
gets it if they're sexually active. It's very easily transmitted
(23:59):
past You can even get it kissing, you could touch
general fluid or you know, like it's just it's ubiquitous.
And the difference is is that um, in some people's
bodies it uh will, like I guess in my case,
took up residence in the area the anus, or it
can be in your cervix, which leads to cervical cancer,
(24:20):
can be in the volva, it can be in the penis. Um.
It's like seven different cancers and then um. So what
you have to do is you have to get checked
for HPV and then you have to monitor it because
it can become cancerous. UM. And the way to treat
it really is by having an incredibly strong immune system.
There are procedures that they do. Sometimes they it's called
(24:43):
a lead procedure. They go in and they try to
take the cells out and try to stop it in
its tracks. UM. So there's a lot to it. But
the thing is we have to stop being ashamed about
it and and talk about it because um, because it's
important to causes like seven nine percent of cancers. UM.
And it's it's it's just it's easily, you know, we
(25:05):
all we all get it at some point. I mean,
oddly enough, I had never tested positive for HPP because
we only do a cervical test. But now probably a
doctor would say, look, you you're married to a man
who had HPV related throat cancer. We should do like
an anial path every year or whatever to make sure.
I know, none of this is like fun to talk
about their like you know, anal I'm really going on,
(25:27):
but but I can't back away from it. It's like
just the way it is. And everybody has sex, and
you know, we all have these bodies and and this
is just the final frontier of what we are afraid
to talk about. But I think it's so important, and
I think, you know, I've had the HPV PV vaccine.
I am forty, but I got it right when it
came out some years ago. And I have four daughters,
and of course I plan to have them vaccinated because
(25:48):
you're right, it was something like I read like of
people get HPV at some point in their lives. That
is almost everyone, right, So it's something you have to
talk about. It's wild that we don't talk about it more. Yeah,
And it's weird because I grew up the herpes generation, right,
so everything was that was the big shame, like herpree
server service, Oh my god, to get herpes? Whoever heard
of HPV? I didn't even know that. When they were
(26:11):
doing like a PAP smear, they were they were checking
for an abnormal PAP which is caused by HPV. Did
you gana college is ever telling you that, you know?
Because why would she unless there's something wrong with it? Right?
So you never you never even hear the word like,
it's not it's unbelievable. Right, So when you go to
your GNA colleges for the first time, what they should
say or in the beginnings when they take up a smear.
(26:33):
They should say, this is um, this is to see
to make sure that you don't have human pap alona virus,
and this is you know, and then teach teach your
patients about it. But again I'm kind of working on
the doctor end with that for new protocols. Well, let's
go back to the fact that you are an introvert
by nature, and and now this is an interview you've
(26:56):
no choice but to tack. But but but you're an
introviet by nat here But then you're speaking out about
something that is notoriously private. Was that a big leap
for you or was it just I have to do that?
Well I said to myself, Okay, I don't really want
to do this, but I'll do I'll do People Magazine
and I'll just do my thing and be done with it.
(27:17):
So I did that, but I didn't really cover the
medical end. So then um, a friend of mine was
friends with John pouch Um who works for does CBS News,
and he said, got gastron technologists. So we did a
much more in depth piece for CBS. And I think
I didn't watch it, but I know that was like
really all the details and was much more informative and
(27:40):
then um, and then I thought, well, that's it. And
then there were all these um horrible I guess, like
I don't know what it was, but a friend of mine,
a young person of course, went oh, did you see
something viral? And basically it was some nasty thing, you know,
regarding my husband, you know, you know, you know, like
as you can imagine. And I remember I got really
(28:00):
mad and I called my my doctor um, and I
was like, well and he said, yeah, this is why
you're not hearing from Michael Douglas and blah blah blah
blah blah blah, because you know, it's it's not fun.
And I was really like, I got my knickers in
the twist and then I thought, oh, stop it. So
what of course you're gonna have people who are going
to like do that, like of course, like get over it.
(28:22):
You know, like anybody wants to do anything in the world,
it's got to you know, just roll with it, right,
that's not important. But you are, by nature, you are
a people pleaser by nature. So having that kind of
I think anyone who's watching right now who's a content producer,
creator has had experience with haters or trolls or mean
(28:43):
comments online. What was that experience like for you? And
how do you handle that? It bothered me, But I'm
going to tell you it really didn't last more than
hours because I thought sticks and stones and you know,
it's just people who are uncomfort was sex or trying
to make it funny or you know, I want to
be mean for a minute, But does that really should
(29:06):
I let them take me down and not talk about
what I think could actually save people's lives because of that,
I mean, it doesn't really even make sense. So I
was mad for like, I was like, uh, let I'm
all the cancer, see if I could you know, I
did that for like a few seconds. Then I went,
that's ridiculous, right, look at our politicians what they put
(29:27):
up with. Look at you know, anybody who has anything
to say. It's just the nature of the world. You're
always going to have someone who wusn't make fun of
you or hate you or I'm sure that you know,
it's just life. How do you move forward without worrying
about health issues? Now that you and Tom have both recovered,
how do you not make that part of your daily
life or daily worries? Well, I would say if anything,
(29:50):
it's the worry about it is. I just talked to
a friend of mine who went through uterine cancer right
a few last year, and we were saying, how when
you first go through so a thing like that, there's
such an exquisite connection to life that, I mean, it's
so beautiful. There's no drug that can make you feel
that way because you're so in touch with like to
(30:11):
treat like you're so blown away just by being alive.
And as you get into your life you take every search,
say everything for granted again. Right, So, um, I'm not
continually worried about my health. I certainly do know how
finite time is and that life can turn on a dime.
So I am always living in gratitude that, Wow, I
don't really have any problems. There's a pandemic, but that's
(30:33):
there are people who are really suffering. The fact that
I'm in my house is I am not suffering. I
know what suffering is, and I'm not so I think
I live with it, but it just has maybe more
more grateful and but not with like, oh my god,
I'm gonna be sick tomorrow. I'm not like that. Right,
(30:54):
Speaking about the connection to life that you talked about
when you go through something like this and then pivoty
back to what we were talking about with people who
are leaving hateful comments, are saying me and things online.
There's a flip side to it too, and that because
you shared your story publicly, you probably were able to
connect with other people who are going through something similar.
(31:14):
Did you meet people along your cancer journey because you
were open about it? Yeah, I have to say those
are some of that um, most satisfying, happiest in fact
that it's not here anymore. But I had a chart
because I'm not very good with social media, but I
would look on my Instagram and I would see somebody
trying to get in touch with me or want to
talk to me, and so um, I would you know,
(31:37):
I would reach out as much as you know, didn't
miss it, you know, God forbid. I don't know. I
don't know how anyway I could be better at it.
But I was always so happy to get on the
phone or talk to somebody or hear somebody say because
of you, I went to the doctor and we felt
but you know, like that, I don't probably there's nothing
more and nothing higher in my life that I could
(31:58):
do right some to help somebody like that. So that
makes it whole worth it. Yeah, I mean that compared
to a few nasty comments. Who cares? Right, So, over
the course of your career, you have come into your
own even more than ever before, arguably, and you're using
your voice more than ever before with your activism, whether
(32:20):
it's health or politics. How do you inspire your girl
to use their voices at a younger age and just
start adulthood that way? Wow? This is this is where
you know, I worried. I worry that I'm not you know,
I want them to be passionate, like I am. Right,
(32:41):
It's like you can't. They're fourteen there, you know, they're
they're developmentally where they should be. They're great, they're compassionate,
they're empathic. You know, they're not you know, they're not
like starting new causes or doing anything. And I have
to be careful not to go like okay, just keep
watering them, just keep you know, living your life, showing
them what you is important. And I mean even right
(33:02):
now and really really really as like everybody else you know,
wanting to show them every racist movie and book, and
you know, and then I listened to their teachers you know,
our kids are the same school, and they are every
single class they're weaving into, you know, even their dance class.
Talking about systematic racism and dance. I was blown with,
oh my god, that of course it's like a dance too, right,
(33:23):
So they are getting it, you know. As a mother,
it's like, well, a mother, but you don't want to
like suffocate and tell them who to be right. So
there's a fine line of nurturing them and yet and
then how do you tell kids or your privilege and
not like you know, like you're right, right, I mean,
because I so I don't know if you have any
(33:46):
advice on that, I would listen because I'm always not well.
I mean, I think the best advice is the role modeling,
which you're doing already, right. It's if they see their
mom using her voice for good, they're gonna grow up
to use their voice for it to hopefully. Yeah. So
when people see you, do they expect you to be
like Bree or to expect you to be like the
(34:07):
villain on Melrose Place? How do you separate who you
actually are and get them to see you for who
you are versus the character and they want you to
be well I think that was actually, I mean professionally,
that was very difficult because I found myself again having
played an iconic role who everybody thought they knew, so
they didn't want to see for another park because we
know her. Oh there I was again, right, so much
(34:27):
for being a good actress. But I would run into
people and they would tell me, you know, I organized
all this, and I didn't like this, thinking that I
was just like that, like little like did I know
if you could see off to the right of the
left of this, you to see a lot of little messes, right,
because I'm not her? And and I would tell them
at first, and then I realized liater. I was just like, oh,
it's just breaking their hearts and just gonna let them
(34:48):
talk move on, right, But even I guess my daughter
to tell us lest she said, oh, so his name,
I forget his name right, everybody said, oh yeah, he said,
if he met you, never would have known that was you,
because you're you're nothing like your character. And I was like, yeah,
so that was just the other day, So there there
is that like yeah, but it was a part right, right,
(35:11):
and will there be another huge part like that in
your future? Well? I had assumed, and who knows. I
thought my third act that there there would be or
that there will be, but I don't know. I know
I've been kind of writing and working on with something
with some friends. I'm not sure where that will go.
But um, at this point, I feel like it would
(35:32):
have to do something that I really cared about. It
was connected to my passions, um, that and so that's
really important to me right now. Like it was great
to play Breathe, but it was a fun show. Like
if I could do Desperate Housewives now, I would have
some of them Republicans and Democrats and you know, deal
with climate change and you know, like that's where I am.
So I want to do something like that. You see
(35:54):
what I'm saying. It all kind of has to come together,
and entertainment would be a great place to do that.
Just saying, Sam, should we I know, we only have
a few minutes left. Should we go through our speed
round questions? So are okay? And then do I get
to ask you a question? Because worrying on with Dr
Phil yesterday, I was, Yeah, it was it was quite Uh,
(36:18):
it was quite controversial. My husband did not want me
to do it because he was worried we'd have all
these trolls in The subject was, um, the Men's movement
men white men who feel are oppressed by equality and
they're starting a men's movement and they hate women and
it's a whole thing. So on Sunday my husband was like,
I just think it's too risky. We've had safety issues
(36:40):
in the past. Let's just forget it. And then Amy
said to me, well, you're the same person that followed
Steve bannoned to the elevator, so I really think that
you can handle Dr Phil. So I did, and it
was great advice and I'm glad I did it. So
I will let you know what it airs. But I
was about to get on the phone with Sam's husband,
metch who I love, and it you know, this is
(37:00):
a woman who, you know, confronted Steve Bannon and an elevator.
She can handle herself on the set of Dr Phil.
To take whatever whateverything about that. Alright, lightning round, let's
do it. Amy, you asked the first question, Marcia, what
is your morning routine? I'll do a plug. I have
(37:24):
this new mug that like heats up. What's it called?
Oh god, Ember, have anybody have an ember mug and
you put it in and it stays hot for as
long as like you have it in there, So like amazing.
It's a little overpriced, by it's worth every penny. I
love it. So that's my morning. That and you know,
(37:45):
seeing the girl and seeing my husband, which is nice
because you know, it used to be stressed, right, so
now it's just like hi, hi, Hi, We're not up
at six o'clock, and so it's actually kind of a
very gentle morning. Go pandemic for that, right, I mean,
what are you watching right now on TV? Oh my gosh, Well,
I have a few things going on. My husband and
(38:06):
I were watching um, the Americans for the first time.
We just started. We're also looking at a show called
The Great which is way out there and so fun
and really dark and um and then I just started watching.
This was kind of research for the project I was
working on, Love Fraud. We're about the women who were
taking advantage of There's one more episode, I think so,
(38:30):
But I don't watch a lot of television. That's that's
a crazy thing. So by the time the night rolls around,
we try to squeeze it in. So what are you
doing at night? If you're not watching TV. So I
feel like the date by the time the kids are,
you know, fat dinner and and the kids are going
in and out. I do a little Rachel Matt out
and then probably catch up on the news, probably more
than I need to, and then I get tired. Are
(38:56):
you in earlier? I'm not that early either, so you know,
just is not up. You know, I think it more
has to do with the kids. If we were just
telling by ourselves, you know, it's like I'm in there,
I'm like, Okay, this is really what it's like. I
want you off the computer. It's not o'clock. I'm taking
your computer, you know, like it's like that right, Oh no, no,
you know, Oh the dog needs to get out. It's life. Yeah, alright.
(39:19):
Final question. We know that you are really into Shannon Watts,
who is the final keynote at the mom to conference.
Look at you swooning? What how did that start? Have
you met Shannon? We like a beatle to me, like,
I just feel like, oh God. If I remember this correctly,
(39:40):
I think it was right after Sandy Hook and I
think it was her. There was a vigil at Wiltshire
and Federal the Federal building, and I just remember driving
up to school that day, you know, and this ideal
like job a bellair and pick up my kids and
and the other kids go on. And so I went
(40:02):
there and she started, I think then, and um, and
I'm like, I told you I'm not good. I don't
have any administrative skills or whatever. I have a lot
of passion. And the fact that she just started and
just did this thing and she's you know, with she's
with help, she's changing laws, and you know, I just
I'm tired of reading about people getting killed and she's
(40:24):
actually doing something about it. And so she is like,
that's amazing, She's a hero something else. Yeah, Okay, now
you know I don't do a lot. You know. Well, Marcia,
thank you so much for giving so much of yourself
to us today and your time and endore you. Thank
(40:49):
you so much. I'm gonna call you in fight out
about Dr Phil. I have a feeling now that you
all will have fall in love with Marcia as we
did a contact for hours. And one of the things
that I think is so neat is that her idol.
You know, everyone has their own idol, right, like everyone
(41:09):
gets star struck. Like if I met eminem Amy. I
would be so star struck. Do you know that I
love eminem No? No, Sam, How do we not know
this about it? I love me too. I'm literally obsessed
with him and I am oh my gosh, and he
just gave his song like, you know, what is it
(41:30):
lose yourself to the Biden campaign. I just think he
is the coolest human on earth, and eight miles is
like my favorite. Oh my gosh, I know there's a
reason we're best friends. Makes me so happy. We're gonna
have to have him on our show. Absolutely, I think so. Uh.
In the meantime, though, Marcia is star struck by one
(41:50):
of our other guests that's coming up, Shannon Watts, and
I just think it's so fun that, like, that's the
person that makes her star struck, and I think we
should start asking people that who makes you start strick?
I love it. I think that's great. I think there's
kind of like the common theme amazing women being star
struck by other amazing women, and everybody has some random
connection to Oprah. That's right of it. Thank you for listening.
(42:14):
Hopefully you've also subscribed to our YouTube channel, where we
chit chat and um it's a place for you to
get either in love with us or sick of us,
either your choice. But we talk a few times a
week and we post it um it's you know. Usually
there are like eight minutes long, twelve minutes long, and
we post our conversations on YouTube, and we also would
(42:35):
love for you to connect with us on social media.
And we want to thank our production team at Large
Media L A. R J as well as our podcast
associate Emma Hard and our male perspective Blue Burns
Hi, I'm Sam and I'm Amy, and this is what's
her story with Sam and Amy. And today we are
super excited because we're trying something new. We are going
to be the first ever live podcast that is born
out of our favorite mom conference, Mom two point oh,
(00:22):
a conference that Amy and I have been attending and
speaking at for years, and this time, because we are
in the age of a pandemic, everything's online. So we
are doing our podcast live. And we were asked to
invite one special guest, and we went back and forth
over inspiring women that we wanted to invite, and you
(00:43):
first suggested that we interview an actress. And I have
to admit that I was a little bit skeptical because
it is not typical of who we invite on this show.
But that said, Marcia is different. She inspired me because
she is a mother, she's a cancer survivor, she's the
wife of a count survivor, and she's had a really
remarkable career doing a bunch of different things. And she's
(01:05):
just this really real person with real stories and a
really real career. There's something about Marcia that she's just
different than the typical actress. Right, She's had so much
longevity in her career, and she's very open about her
ups and downs, even just how she met her husband,
which I think people are gonna love hearing that story.
But there's something about her that is so genuine and
(01:29):
just so warm and also so relatable. So I'm really
excited for for you to meet her. So let's jump in.
Part of the reason we wanted to start this podcast
is because we've always felt really strongly that we hear
so much about you know, what Ja Jeff Bezos ate
for breakfast and what Bill Gates likes to read, and
(01:51):
we don't hear enough of that information about women and
women's stories, and so we have always exchanged tons of
stories about our lives. It also the women we admire,
and so this podcast is an opportunity for us to
interview our favorite women and the women who are icons
of their industry. Last week we launched with a joint
interview with Glenn and Doyle and Abby Wombach, So I
(02:13):
encourage you to go back and listen to that. That
was definitely they shared things with us that they've never
shared before, and her their avid fans say that it
was a lot of new information. And part two of
that interview comes out tomorrow, so every Thursday we have
a new episode that drops. But in the meantime, Marcia
Cross has been a part of my life. I'm lucky
enough to say since two thousand five when Marcia was
(02:38):
pregnant with twins and she co hosted my book party,
and I just immediately was drawn to her. She is
not only such a successful person, but such a good hearted,
thoughtful person that has come across through everything she does,
including her current activism, her career. And one of the
things that I'm really excited for us to share with
(02:59):
you today about Marcia's story that I think a lot
of you will relate to is one um she found
love a little bit later in life and had her
kids in her mid forties UM and is now a
cancer survivor and has gone through a lot of other
things in her journey to the top. You might know
Marcia most famously for two of her roles. One is
(03:20):
in Melrose Place and the other is in Desperate Housewives.
So Marcia, thank you so much for being here. We
are just thrilled to happy today today. I'm very happy
to be here. As I said earlier, I a little
bit of a funny introvert, extrovert. But I'm really happy
that you asked, and I'm happy that I said yes.
Although as I said, the accolades were to writing books
(03:41):
and children and my goodness, your impressive women. Well it's
so funny because when when when you were saying you're
an introvert, I had said to Laura when you first
agreed to do this, I was like, Laura, you don't understand.
She doesn't say yes that many things. I mean, she
is like hard to get because she's shy and she
does didn't love doing stuff like this. She she would
(04:02):
rather just like leave it to someone else. And I
think that that's one of kind of the most charming
things about you in many ways, is how humble you are. Um,
one of the things I was going to ask about,
just in looking back at your career that's so fascinating
to me, is there was a big gap between melrose
Place and Desperate Housewives. What was it like? Because I
(04:24):
know that so many people who were watching right now,
so many of you have probably had either gaps in
your career or a roller coaster of highs and lows.
How did you weather that? How many years was it
and what was like? You. Well, first of all, that
is a fantastic question because people always want to know
about the you know, the highs and everything's great. And
I remember that when, um, when I was doing Desperate Housewives,
(04:47):
it was so important for me when I would speak
to an interviewer to say, I really want to tell
you about what happened the last ten years, because I
think it's people will go like, oh, you know, everything
just happens like that. It was like, no, I mean,
I did not always place. It was not my dream
job because I had come from Juilliard and I wanted
to be you know, film actress and stage actress. And
(05:09):
while I was doing that, I was with a man
and he died of a brain tumor, which was horrific
um and so I stayed with the show and I
kind of acted all that and sanity out in that place,
which was wonderful. And then when it was over, my
career was really at a standstill because I was so iconic, right,
you get was on a soap. So I'm not in
(05:31):
the level of the career that I want to be at,
and I'm now known as this thing, and you know,
it's like it's just two sides of the coin. It's
like great too. You know, I was heralded on that
show is really you know, bringing it to life Heather.
Of course you know the MAINI drag, but you know,
adding my own brand of crazy. And then I couldn't
(05:53):
get arrested or I couldn't get any jobs that were
of interest to me. And during that time, I'm started
talking so much for someone who said she was an introvert.
So I gonna make it fast. No, we want to
hear this. So I got a lad A class in
psychology because I was always interested in psychology. So during
that time, I took another class. So I'd take a
few more classes, and all of a sudden, I went,
(06:15):
oh my god, I have all my credits except for
my clinical hours. Well, I guess I'll go get my
clinical hours. And I worked in Beverly Hills at the
Maple Counseling Center and I started seeing clients and honestly,
I really loved it. And I was at a crossroads
and it wasn't to make believe Prosperos. It really was, Okay,
I have to decide. And right at that point, I
(06:35):
had an audition for a show called Everwood and it
was really a girlfriend. As it's often the case, it's
the women are in our lives who said, no, this
is good writing. You're gonna put on your big girl
in the pants and get out there and do this audition.
I was like, okay, okay, and of course I got it.
It's shout in Utah. So I kept going flying UM
to l A to see my clients, then go back
(06:56):
there to shoot. But I still thought, well, I'm really
still going to leave the business because I wanted to
have a baby. Oh my god, I'm telling you so much.
I love it. Okay, you were thing, you were single
at the time, and you just said you were going
to adopt a baby or what how it that could
learned to adopt a baby. So I started looking into adoption.
(07:16):
And when I got the audition for Desperate Housewives, I
went in there and I said I would like to
just for the narrator because I thought, oh, I'm going
to be a single mom. That would be the perfect job.
But Mark Jerry was like, no, I want you to
read for Bree or whatever. So I did that UM,
and then I had a call back for that, and
I remember on the same day that UM, I went
(07:38):
back to Utah. I got a phone call that I
had gotten the part of Desperate Housewives and a baby.
A couple that I had met with had agreed to
give away their child to me. So it was like
my head just exploded, you know, after ten years of
nothing like the university, I mean, who knows, like why
are lives? You know, Well, I'm sorry, but we have
(08:03):
to know what happened to that child, because I know
that you have twins, so happy to say that child
didn't make it. I was scoring, Um, it was a
little boy, and unfortunately he did not make it, which
was really really sad and devastating at the time. I
went on to the pilot. The show got picked up,
and shortly after that I met my husband, and shortly
(08:24):
after that we had twins. So oh my god. You know,
it was like, which way is it going to go?
But dam has told me that she has heard from
you the amazing story of how you met your husband.
And you know Sam mentioned in the beginning so many
of our friends met their husbands later in life, so
how did you meet come? Well? Okay, So I had
completely given up on meeting a man because when I
(08:46):
got to be thirty six or thirty seven. At that time,
I thought, what are we gonna do? Data man for
five minutes ago? Are you you know? Can you be
to follow my child? This is not going to happen,
which is why I started looking into adoption. And then
one day I was crossing the street and I saw
this man from behind. I mean, it's crazy, and rolled
up sleeves, white shirt and he was writing. And it
(09:09):
was a tiny store and I followed him around and
I couldn't rely see his face, so it wasn't like, oh,
you know whatever, and I just couldn't figure out what
I was doing. And then I realized I gotta get
out of here, like this is stalking. This is so crazy.
And I was leaving and there was a woman outside
what kind of store like that? It was a flower shop? Okay,
(09:29):
it's called the Woods and it was a beautiful flower shop.
And I heard him telling the um sales ley how
he wanted his flowers delivered, and he had a beautiful voice.
And so when I was there, I said, who is
that guy? Because I thought, well, maybe it's somebody you
know in l A. How you've seen someone you think
you know them. I'm no different, right, And she said oh,
he's nobody, which is like the best answer I could
(09:49):
have heard for somebody I want to go out with,
because it means he's like a regular guy. And she said,
do you want to leave your phone number? And I
thought why not? So I wrote him a little there
and I said if it doesn't work out, because I
thought he could have been flow, you know, buying flowers
for a woman, not you know, his mother, and left
my phone number, and then I left the store. A
(10:11):
little while later I saw him come running out and
I hid in my car and I was like, what
have I done? But then back and then how long
after did he call you? Well, that's kind of a
great story too, because um, well two things he called
and I don't know, I didn't get the call, which
is very me like, I'm you know, this was way
back in the day of answering machines. And his friend said, oh,
(10:33):
she's not going to call you. Don't call her back.
And he realized that he had dialed the wrong number
because he did the wrong UM area code, because he
was in eight one eight at the time anyway, So
he called back and it was the morning of the
golden glow of my phone was ringing off the hook.
We've been nominated, you know, we'd all but it was
like such a fantastic morning. In the middle of it
(10:54):
was Tom asking me out to dinner, and you know,
and said yes, and we met. That was before the holidays,
and we met after the holidays and dated for probably
less than a year, and here we are. I have
who was he buying flowers for another woman there? But
(11:16):
he says it wasn't that serious. So you know, I
feel like that was his call. And I think she's
got married to now. So yeah, And so you dated
for less than a year, got married, and then you
had your your twin daughters, and so you were working
while you got pregnant and you know, carried twins. What
was that like, working while pregnant and how did that go?
(11:40):
It's so funny because you know, anytime you do something
in life at the age you're at, you do it
because that's what you do. Like, there was no question
that we're going to have children. There was no question
that time was running out, the fact that I was
on this fantastic show. Like now I look back and
I go that wassy like you know, and I'm sure
it didn't make mar jurry very happy, but you know,
people wasn't and um, it was really hard. I was
(12:02):
very very noxious at first. Um I popped. I mean,
I just like my but my the sound guy, the
boom mock rave was likely going on there, you could tell.
And you know, of course with twins, you know, I
was like I remember squeezing out, was getting married at
the time and just being like, oh and anyway, but
(12:22):
I did it, you know, And then I had these
two beautiful babies, and h the writers strike went on
right if they were born, so I got extra time
to be home with them and off to work I
went after that, and it was actually wonderful. And how
was it different becoming a mother in your forties then
(12:46):
it might have been if you'd had kids ten years earlier. Wow, well,
I don't know because I didn't. You know. It's like
it's like if I had a single child. Who knows, right, Um,
I certainly I think in my third ease, I really
wasn't right there, So you know, I didn't have tons
and I can't even picture it, um, but there is
(13:07):
certainly a very present feeling you have because you've been
through a lot. So it's not you're not torn all
the time. So I was working, um, and I was
dealing with the pressures of being and you know, having
two big jobs at the same time. It wasn't it
was wonderful. It was really really wonderful. So um, I
think now I see it more getting older, like you
(13:30):
don't want to be too old because we are human
and we age. So um, though it is possible, it's
certainly lovely if you can meet, you know, your partner earlier.
So yeah, so it takes us through to you're on
on desperate house fights for a long time and then
(13:51):
you're raising kids and Tom gets cancer. Wow, okay, well
that was um. So I just flashed on that morning.
I remember it was like near Thanksgiving and I had
a picture of the girls you need trace your hands
making the turkeys, and the phone rang and I heard
(14:12):
him pick up the phone and I could tell that
the doctor or maybe he told me the doctor wants
him to come back in something like whatever it was,
I knew my blood ran cold, and I went, that's it.
I know it, I know it. And sure enough he
had throat cancer. And any thing I can say is
that much to my surprise, my boyfriend who had passed
(14:34):
away when he was really had had died of a
brain tumor. And I am. I am not the most
brilliant mother, like details, you know, the day to days,
their milk and the frisit like all that, you know,
my friends, but I was. I am great in a crisis,
and I was. I became like as fierce as you.
I mean, we flew here, we threw there so every
(14:55):
doctor we could, I learned everything I could um and
then ultimately he made his choice of where he wanted
treatment and we stayed here and I was working, I
had two young kids, and I was taking care of him,
so I would go like from work to the hospital
to the kids. That was a really crazy, crazy time
(15:16):
and luckily he's fine. So yeah, it was I'm scary, scary.
That is scary, And you know, I wonder sometimes I
think in the most chaotic parts of our life, they're
the scariest parts. We don't remember the day to day.
But I read something an article or an interview that
you gave where you talked about how your twins were
(15:37):
so little that you didn't tell them about Tom's cancer
because it wasn't abnormal to them. Whatever your normal was
was normal to the absolutely do you remember what it
was like trying to parent through grief or fear? Well
they yeah, they didn't know, so that you know, he
(15:57):
was just told. When I looked back at the pictures,
now I go. But at the time I didn't feel
that way because honestly, even as the for me as
the caretaker, all that gets shut down, I was not weeping.
I was in action, right, So I'm not like there
was only one time post that when I was thought
maybe had a recurrence that I remember feeling that fear
(16:17):
that could actually melt your body. But while I was
taking care of him, there was just no way that
he was not going to make it. It was just
a question of what do I need to do today,
what prescription needs to be filled? And I also, as
I say this, I think of the people that were
in my life then, my assistant who was handled like
insurance things and all that. And I had a great
nanny or two, you know, like I had. I had
(16:39):
a house full of help. So we cannot imagine having
done all that without you know, full support. Um sort.
That's a side note for those of you have anybody watching.
Thank you, I love you. Jeffy, jo Ja anyway, um
you asked me, Oh so, but they were fine. They
were just he Tom would be sitting there like it
(16:59):
was like he was a jump in the living room
because if by the end he was in so much
pain that he was on so much narcotics. Because I
wouldn't wish it on well, maybe one person. I wouldn't
wish it to anybody someone sailors from that and I
really wouldn't wish it on anybody. Um So, but they
didn't know. Like Tom would put in a feeding tube
(17:20):
and so said would pretend like she's gonna go eat
and put it into or he clears through it a lot.
So they'd be like, you know, it's just kids are mimics,
you know, they don't but they have nothing on it.
So it didn't I didn't really, they didn't notice. It's interesting,
you know, kids, they just roll didn't know anything. No.
(17:41):
I get that. My kids are young, they're one to six,
and they have just kind of rolled with this change
in life with the pandemic, just kind of seamlessly, oh right,
totally normal that we don't do anything or go anywhere anymore.
That's cool, right, Like they don't even notice that it's abnormal. Yeah,
even my kids, they really don't complain much fourteen and
it's like okay, you know, they just sure they'd like
(18:06):
it to be different, but they're okay. Well. And then
in the last few years you had another just awful
health scare and diagnosis, and at that point your kids
are old enough to understand what was going on. Yeah,
I think that in many ways was harrier because because
(18:28):
they were older, and I was really worried about what
to do, whether I wanted to go through treatment here
or go to another hospital and stay out of town
because I just didn't know how I would be through it,
and I didn't want to scare them, and ultimately I
wanted to staying home. And I had unbelievable around the
clock girlfriends who took care of me. And then my husband,
(18:49):
who's less of a nurturer and more of a guy guy,
get it done, get it a you know, he like
took care of those girls like you know, pants like fabulous,
just he did it all and um. And then it
was a little hard coming back from because I think
even though they don't talk about it, I noticed little
glitches of like when you start to realize like maybe
(19:13):
they didn't think anything was really going to happen to me,
but that there's that possibility, you know, it's always it's
it's jarring, like your mother's not supposed to be sick.
It's your childhood, it shouldn't be hers. It's that that's
that feeling as our kids are. I know our kids
are very similar in age, and I do feel like
they're so kind of reactive to everything that goes on
(19:35):
with our parents at this point because it's always in
relation to them and what they're going through. When you
were first diagnosed with anal cancer, what was that like
for you? Do you remember that moment? You remember Tom
so vividly? Do you remember your moment? Well, I can
tell you. And I think this is really important. Although
(19:55):
millennial moms are probably more dealing with diagnoses of having
age PV right now, which we should talk about. But um,
you know, as a post amount a puzzle woman, I
was in I was supposed to go to my gun
a cologist. I hadn't realized I hadn't been there in
so long. I'm like, I just wanted to know my prescription.
She said, no, you have to come in, and I'm
annoyed because I feel like I just I feel like
(20:16):
I was just there right because life goes like that.
So I go in and I love my guy in college.
She gives me an exam, and then the next thing
I know, she says, she goes out and makes a
phone call. Comes back. I'm on the phone checking in thing.
So I want to go down and see this woman
down the street who you know, I feel something. I
was like, Okay, I left, and I thought, I miss
my daughter's basketball game. Am I really gonna go here?
(20:38):
I don't want to miss it. She just made the
pointment I should go. I went to the thing. This
woman gives me an exam. She comes around the table
and I felt like it now like it was a
Larry David episode. She goes, I just want to tell
you whatever it is, it's curable. And it was at
that moment that I left my body and was like, what, Like,
whenever you say curable, you know it's a relation to cancer.
(20:59):
So I didn't know what. And the next thing I knew,
they were scheduling me for biopsy like it was Halloween
was the next day. It was the day after. As
soon as they could get me cleaned out in and
then from there it went on. I kind of went
into a state of denial. I had a couple of
different biopsies. It took a long time for me to
get my head around the fact that it was actually
were real. Um. But that being said, it was real,
(21:24):
and uh, I didn't have to go through treatment, and
I'm fine. I'm so grateful because and any women you
know who are going to the Gunda collegist or have
any symptoms. And by the way, I had zero symptoms.
This was just because she does digital rectal exams as
part of her She just retired old school, super thorough
and she just happened to feel something. And that's really
(21:49):
I'm now working with a you know, a group of
a new alliance, that HPV alliance to get this sea's
kind of nobody's department the anus. Nobody wants to claim
and nobody wants to talk about it. I frankly met
awe of it now, so you know, it has to
be take care of, right, It's part of our body
and um HPV anal cancers on the rise in uh
(22:10):
post menopausal women, um so, and and then for young women.
Of course, what I didn't realize as I was going
through it I learned from reading my computer endlessly was
that there was all of the shame that people around
the world, across America were telling people they had some
other kind of cancer and they were embarrassed. And I
am really old school in New England. I was like,
(22:32):
this ridiculous, it's your ain is like, you didn't do anything,
you know, I don't. I don't have any shame around that.
I didn't feel like. I mean, I haven't had a
while with sex life, right, and you know I did
get married later, so I don't know UM. But I
just really and that's the only reason I came out
and talked about it was because I hated that people
were a going on diagnosed because they were too embarrassed
(22:54):
to go to doctors and and be living with all
the shame that I just thought, Yeah, that's not necessary.
Can you talk about HPV because I think for people,
a lot of people don't even understand it. And I
will tell you that I didn't understand it either, because honestly,
(23:15):
had I truly understood it, I would have known or thought, Okay,
my husband had um HPV related throw cancer. UM. He
had had a biopsy to prove that that was true.
But it came back inconclusive. But any sort of middle
aged man who's not like smoking incessantly or drinking a
lot has probably gotten it from HPV. UM. Of course
(23:38):
I wasn't adept at HPP then I get it. So
that's why I finally learned about it, because it's all interrelated. Now. Truthfully,
we could independently have gotten it years ago and just
this could be completely unrelated. Because um, it's a virus,
much like the virus that's going around now. Almost everybody
gets it if they're sexually active. It's very easily transmitted
(23:59):
past You can even get it kissing, you could touch
general fluid or you know, like it's just it's ubiquitous.
And the difference is is that um, in some people's
bodies it uh will, like I guess in my case,
took up residence in the area the anus, or it
can be in your cervix, which leads to cervical cancer,
(24:20):
can be in the volva, it can be in the penis. Um.
It's like seven different cancers and then um. So what
you have to do is you have to get checked
for HPV and then you have to monitor it because
it can become cancerous. UM. And the way to treat
it really is by having an incredibly strong immune system.
There are procedures that they do. Sometimes they it's called
(24:43):
a lead procedure. They go in and they try to
take the cells out and try to stop it in
its tracks. UM. So there's a lot to it. But
the thing is we have to stop being ashamed about
it and and talk about it because um, because it's
important to causes like seven nine percent of cancers. UM.
And it's it's it's just it's easily, you know, we
(25:05):
all we all get it at some point. I mean,
oddly enough, I had never tested positive for HPP because
we only do a cervical test. But now probably a
doctor would say, look, you you're married to a man
who had HPV related throat cancer. We should do like
an anial path every year or whatever to make sure.
I know, none of this is like fun to talk
about their like you know, anal I'm really going on,
(25:27):
but but I can't back away from it. It's like
just the way it is. And everybody has sex, and
you know, we all have these bodies and and this
is just the final frontier of what we are afraid
to talk about. But I think it's so important, and
I think, you know, I've had the HPV PV vaccine.
I am forty, but I got it right when it
came out some years ago. And I have four daughters,
and of course I plan to have them vaccinated because
(25:48):
you're right, it was something like I read like of
people get HPV at some point in their lives. That
is almost everyone, right, So it's something you have to
talk about. It's wild that we don't talk about it more. Yeah,
And it's weird because I grew up the herpes generation, right,
so everything was that was the big shame, like herpree
server service, Oh my god, to get herpes? Whoever heard
of HPV? I didn't even know that. When they were
(26:11):
doing like a PAP smear, they were they were checking
for an abnormal PAP which is caused by HPV. Did
you gana college is ever telling you that, you know?
Because why would she unless there's something wrong with it? Right?
So you never you never even hear the word like,
it's not it's unbelievable. Right, So when you go to
your GNA colleges for the first time, what they should
say or in the beginnings when they take up a smear.
(26:33):
They should say, this is um, this is to see
to make sure that you don't have human pap alona virus,
and this is you know, and then teach teach your
patients about it. But again I'm kind of working on
the doctor end with that for new protocols. Well, let's
go back to the fact that you are an introvert
by nature, and and now this is an interview you've
(26:56):
no choice but to tack. But but but you're an
introviet by nat here But then you're speaking out about
something that is notoriously private. Was that a big leap
for you or was it just I have to do that?
Well I said to myself, Okay, I don't really want
to do this, but I'll do I'll do People Magazine
and I'll just do my thing and be done with it.
(27:17):
So I did that, but I didn't really cover the
medical end. So then um, a friend of mine was
friends with John pouch Um who works for does CBS News,
and he said, got gastron technologists. So we did a
much more in depth piece for CBS. And I think
I didn't watch it, but I know that was like
really all the details and was much more informative and
(27:40):
then um, and then I thought, well, that's it. And
then there were all these um horrible I guess, like
I don't know what it was, but a friend of mine,
a young person of course, went oh, did you see
something viral? And basically it was some nasty thing, you know,
regarding my husband, you know, you know, you know, like
as you can imagine. And I remember I got really
(28:00):
mad and I called my my doctor um, and I
was like, well and he said, yeah, this is why
you're not hearing from Michael Douglas and blah blah blah
blah blah blah, because you know, it's it's not fun.
And I was really like, I got my knickers in
the twist and then I thought, oh, stop it. So
what of course you're gonna have people who are going
to like do that, like of course, like get over it.
(28:22):
You know, like anybody wants to do anything in the world,
it's got to you know, just roll with it, right,
that's not important. But you are, by nature, you are
a people pleaser by nature. So having that kind of
I think anyone who's watching right now who's a content producer,
creator has had experience with haters or trolls or mean
(28:43):
comments online. What was that experience like for you? And
how do you handle that? It bothered me, But I'm
going to tell you it really didn't last more than
hours because I thought sticks and stones and you know,
it's just people who are uncomfort was sex or trying
to make it funny or you know, I want to
be mean for a minute, But does that really should
(29:06):
I let them take me down and not talk about
what I think could actually save people's lives because of that,
I mean, it doesn't really even make sense. So I
was mad for like, I was like, uh, let I'm
all the cancer, see if I could you know, I
did that for like a few seconds. Then I went,
that's ridiculous, right, look at our politicians what they put
(29:27):
up with. Look at you know, anybody who has anything
to say. It's just the nature of the world. You're
always going to have someone who wusn't make fun of
you or hate you or I'm sure that you know,
it's just life. How do you move forward without worrying
about health issues? Now that you and Tom have both recovered,
how do you not make that part of your daily
life or daily worries? Well, I would say if anything,
(29:50):
it's the worry about it is. I just talked to
a friend of mine who went through uterine cancer right
a few last year, and we were saying, how when
you first go through so a thing like that, there's
such an exquisite connection to life that, I mean, it's
so beautiful. There's no drug that can make you feel
that way because you're so in touch with like to
(30:11):
treat like you're so blown away just by being alive.
And as you get into your life you take every search,
say everything for granted again. Right, So, um, I'm not
continually worried about my health. I certainly do know how
finite time is and that life can turn on a dime.
So I am always living in gratitude that, Wow, I
don't really have any problems. There's a pandemic, but that's
(30:33):
there are people who are really suffering. The fact that
I'm in my house is I am not suffering. I
know what suffering is, and I'm not so I think
I live with it, but it just has maybe more
more grateful and but not with like, oh my god,
I'm gonna be sick tomorrow. I'm not like that. Right,
(30:54):
Speaking about the connection to life that you talked about
when you go through something like this and then pivoty
back to what we were talking about with people who
are leaving hateful comments, are saying me and things online.
There's a flip side to it too, and that because
you shared your story publicly, you probably were able to
connect with other people who are going through something similar.
(31:14):
Did you meet people along your cancer journey because you
were open about it? Yeah, I have to say those
are some of that um, most satisfying, happiest in fact
that it's not here anymore. But I had a chart
because I'm not very good with social media, but I
would look on my Instagram and I would see somebody
trying to get in touch with me or want to
talk to me, and so um, I would you know,
(31:37):
I would reach out as much as you know, didn't
miss it, you know, God forbid. I don't know. I
don't know how anyway I could be better at it.
But I was always so happy to get on the
phone or talk to somebody or hear somebody say because
of you, I went to the doctor and we felt
but you know, like that, I don't probably there's nothing
more and nothing higher in my life that I could
(31:58):
do right some to help somebody like that. So that
makes it whole worth it. Yeah, I mean that compared
to a few nasty comments. Who cares? Right, So, over
the course of your career, you have come into your
own even more than ever before, arguably, and you're using
your voice more than ever before with your activism, whether
(32:20):
it's health or politics. How do you inspire your girl
to use their voices at a younger age and just
start adulthood that way? Wow? This is this is where
you know, I worried. I worry that I'm not you know,
I want them to be passionate, like I am. Right,
(32:41):
It's like you can't. They're fourteen there, you know, they're
they're developmentally where they should be. They're great, they're compassionate,
they're empathic. You know, they're not you know, they're not
like starting new causes or doing anything. And I have
to be careful not to go like okay, just keep
watering them, just keep you know, living your life, showing
them what you is important. And I mean even right
(33:02):
now and really really really as like everybody else you know,
wanting to show them every racist movie and book, and
you know, and then I listened to their teachers you know,
our kids are the same school, and they are every
single class they're weaving into, you know, even their dance class.
Talking about systematic racism and dance. I was blown with,
oh my god, that of course it's like a dance too, right,
(33:23):
So they are getting it, you know. As a mother,
it's like, well, a mother, but you don't want to
like suffocate and tell them who to be right. So
there's a fine line of nurturing them and yet and
then how do you tell kids or your privilege and
not like you know, like you're right, right, I mean,
because I so I don't know if you have any
(33:46):
advice on that, I would listen because I'm always not well.
I mean, I think the best advice is the role modeling,
which you're doing already, right. It's if they see their
mom using her voice for good, they're gonna grow up
to use their voice for it to hopefully. Yeah. So
when people see you, do they expect you to be
like Bree or to expect you to be like the
(34:07):
villain on Melrose Place? How do you separate who you
actually are and get them to see you for who
you are versus the character and they want you to
be well I think that was actually, I mean professionally,
that was very difficult because I found myself again having
played an iconic role who everybody thought they knew, so
they didn't want to see for another park because we
know her. Oh there I was again, right, so much
(34:27):
for being a good actress. But I would run into
people and they would tell me, you know, I organized
all this, and I didn't like this, thinking that I
was just like that, like little like did I know
if you could see off to the right of the
left of this, you to see a lot of little messes, right,
because I'm not her? And and I would tell them
at first, and then I realized liater. I was just like, oh,
it's just breaking their hearts and just gonna let them
(34:48):
talk move on, right, But even I guess my daughter
to tell us lest she said, oh, so his name,
I forget his name right, everybody said, oh yeah, he said,
if he met you, never would have known that was you,
because you're you're nothing like your character. And I was like, yeah,
so that was just the other day, So there there
is that like yeah, but it was a part right, right,
(35:11):
and will there be another huge part like that in
your future? Well? I had assumed, and who knows. I
thought my third act that there there would be or
that there will be, but I don't know. I know
I've been kind of writing and working on with something
with some friends. I'm not sure where that will go.
But um, at this point, I feel like it would
(35:32):
have to do something that I really cared about. It
was connected to my passions, um, that and so that's
really important to me right now. Like it was great
to play Breathe, but it was a fun show. Like
if I could do Desperate Housewives now, I would have
some of them Republicans and Democrats and you know, deal
with climate change and you know, like that's where I am.
So I want to do something like that. You see
(35:54):
what I'm saying. It all kind of has to come together,
and entertainment would be a great place to do that.
Just saying, Sam, should we I know, we only have
a few minutes left. Should we go through our speed
round questions? So are okay? And then do I get
to ask you a question? Because worrying on with Dr
Phil yesterday, I was, Yeah, it was it was quite Uh,
(36:18):
it was quite controversial. My husband did not want me
to do it because he was worried we'd have all
these trolls in The subject was, um, the Men's movement
men white men who feel are oppressed by equality and
they're starting a men's movement and they hate women and
it's a whole thing. So on Sunday my husband was like,
I just think it's too risky. We've had safety issues
(36:40):
in the past. Let's just forget it. And then Amy
said to me, well, you're the same person that followed
Steve bannoned to the elevator, so I really think that
you can handle Dr Phil. So I did, and it
was great advice and I'm glad I did it. So
I will let you know what it airs. But I
was about to get on the phone with Sam's husband,
metch who I love, and it you know, this is
(37:00):
a woman who, you know, confronted Steve Bannon and an elevator.
She can handle herself on the set of Dr Phil.
To take whatever whateverything about that. Alright, lightning round, let's
do it. Amy, you asked the first question, Marcia, what
is your morning routine? I'll do a plug. I have
(37:24):
this new mug that like heats up. What's it called?
Oh god, Ember, have anybody have an ember mug and
you put it in and it stays hot for as
long as like you have it in there, So like amazing.
It's a little overpriced, by it's worth every penny. I
love it. So that's my morning. That and you know,
(37:45):
seeing the girl and seeing my husband, which is nice
because you know, it used to be stressed, right, so
now it's just like hi, hi, Hi, We're not up
at six o'clock, and so it's actually kind of a
very gentle morning. Go pandemic for that, right, I mean,
what are you watching right now on TV? Oh my gosh, Well,
I have a few things going on. My husband and
(38:06):
I were watching um, the Americans for the first time.
We just started. We're also looking at a show called
The Great which is way out there and so fun
and really dark and um and then I just started watching.
This was kind of research for the project I was
working on, Love Fraud. We're about the women who were
taking advantage of There's one more episode, I think so,
(38:30):
But I don't watch a lot of television. That's that's
a crazy thing. So by the time the night rolls around,
we try to squeeze it in. So what are you
doing at night? If you're not watching TV. So I
feel like the date by the time the kids are,
you know, fat dinner and and the kids are going
in and out. I do a little Rachel Matt out
and then probably catch up on the news, probably more
than I need to, and then I get tired. Are
(38:56):
you in earlier? I'm not that early either, so you know,
just is not up. You know, I think it more
has to do with the kids. If we were just
telling by ourselves, you know, it's like I'm in there,
I'm like, Okay, this is really what it's like. I
want you off the computer. It's not o'clock. I'm taking
your computer, you know, like it's like that right, Oh no, no,
you know, Oh the dog needs to get out. It's life. Yeah, alright.
(39:19):
Final question. We know that you are really into Shannon Watts,
who is the final keynote at the mom to conference.
Look at you swooning? What how did that start? Have
you met Shannon? We like a beatle to me, like,
I just feel like, oh God. If I remember this correctly,
(39:40):
I think it was right after Sandy Hook and I
think it was her. There was a vigil at Wiltshire
and Federal the Federal building, and I just remember driving
up to school that day, you know, and this ideal
like job a bellair and pick up my kids and
and the other kids go on. And so I went
(40:02):
there and she started, I think then, and um, and
I'm like, I told you I'm not good. I don't
have any administrative skills or whatever. I have a lot
of passion. And the fact that she just started and
just did this thing and she's you know, with she's
with help, she's changing laws, and you know, I just
I'm tired of reading about people getting killed and she's
(40:24):
actually doing something about it. And so she is like,
that's amazing, She's a hero something else. Yeah, Okay, now
you know I don't do a lot. You know. Well, Marcia,
thank you so much for giving so much of yourself
to us today and your time and endore you. Thank
(40:49):
you so much. I'm gonna call you in fight out
about Dr Phil. I have a feeling now that you
all will have fall in love with Marcia as we
did a contact for hours. And one of the things
that I think is so neat is that her idol.
You know, everyone has their own idol, right, like everyone
(41:09):
gets star struck. Like if I met eminem Amy. I
would be so star struck. Do you know that I
love eminem No? No, Sam, How do we not know
this about it? I love me too. I'm literally obsessed
with him and I am oh my gosh, and he
just gave his song like, you know, what is it
(41:30):
lose yourself to the Biden campaign. I just think he
is the coolest human on earth, and eight miles is
like my favorite. Oh my gosh, I know there's a
reason we're best friends. Makes me so happy. We're gonna
have to have him on our show. Absolutely, I think so. Uh.
In the meantime, though, Marcia is star struck by one
(41:50):
of our other guests that's coming up, Shannon Watts, and
I just think it's so fun that, like, that's the
person that makes her star struck, and I think we
should start asking people that who makes you start strick?
I love it. I think that's great. I think there's
kind of like the common theme amazing women being star
struck by other amazing women, and everybody has some random
connection to Oprah. That's right of it. Thank you for listening.
(42:14):
Hopefully you've also subscribed to our YouTube channel, where we
chit chat and um it's a place for you to
get either in love with us or sick of us,
either your choice. But we talk a few times a
week and we post it um it's you know. Usually
there are like eight minutes long, twelve minutes long, and
we post our conversations on YouTube, and we also would
(42:35):
love for you to connect with us on social media.
And we want to thank our production team at Large
Media L A. R J as well as our podcast
associate Emma Hard and our male perspective Blue Burns
Hosts And Creators
Samantha Ettus
Amy Nelson
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