December 9, 2024 • 39 mins
Daniel says being trans is just a small part of his identity. His obsession with Radiohead is a way bigger part of his life—it’s often in the queue during his drive to and from high school. Most high schoolers are probably fixated on their favorite bands. But most 16 year olds haven’t testified in front of their representatives or organized a protest (and dance party) in front of the Supreme Court.
Daniel invites us into his world as a young trans Latino in Arizona. Growing up near the border he’s surrounded by Mexican culture and immersed in communities of queer folks and artists of color. He paints a different picture than you might imagine for someone living as a double minority in a red state. He explains why it’s not so simple to pack up and move even when facing the threat of harmful legislation. This season I really wanted to hear from a young person about what they wished for the world and I was lucky to meet someone as empathetic and generous as Daniel. He gets real about navigating family ties and friendships as an in-betweener and speaks honestly about how his age affects his activism.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
If someone was to like compartmentalize every part of my
identity onto a map of the United States, maybeing transgender
would be Rhode Island. It's in that little corner of
like important things, but it's also really small.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
So what's your taxes?
Speaker 3 (00:16):
Very ahead, Welcome to when You're Invisible. My name is
Maria Fernanda Dies, but I know not everyone can roll
there are, so it's also fine to call me Maria.
When You're Invisible is my love letter to the working
class and others who are seemingly invisible in our society.
(00:38):
I hope to build a community here that will inspire
you to have generous conversations with others that are different
from you, conversations that might help you see life in
an entirely different way.
Speaker 4 (00:53):
My name is Daniel Shuhil. I'm a sixteen year old
transgender boy in Arizona.
Speaker 3 (01:01):
I was excited to talk to Daniel for so many reasons.
Speaker 2 (01:06):
One is his enthusiasm.
Speaker 4 (01:08):
We're ready, We're ready to get cooking.
Speaker 3 (01:11):
Second, he's a teenager. As a kid, I was fortunate
to be around adults who took me seriously. Today, I
try to listen to what young people have to say.
I find their observations fascinating. I love how much they
surprise me and make me rethink why and how I
see the world, whether it's through their observations, their questions,
(01:32):
or their own stories and resilience. I've gotten to know
a lot of young people through work. I've taught theater,
classes and activities, and I also tutor students of all
ages in math, history, Spanish, English, test prep.
Speaker 4 (01:47):
You knew it.
Speaker 2 (01:47):
Do you like school or do you find it boring?
Speaker 4 (01:49):
I like school because I get to see my friends
and I get to do like jazz band.
Speaker 2 (01:54):
Wait, what do you play?
Speaker 4 (01:55):
I'm learning the upright bass, but I'm not too good yet,
And in jazz combo, I'm playing the guitar.
Speaker 2 (02:01):
What does like an everyday or an average day look like?
Speaker 4 (02:05):
I wake up, make some breakfast, some cereal, I go
to school. I have math. I like math. That's a
good class. Then History, then biotech. It's just like chemistry okay,
and jazz ben jazz combo of Spanish. Then I come
home and I eat, and then I'll play my guitar
for a little bit, and then I play my craft
(02:27):
and then I go to sleep.
Speaker 2 (02:28):
Nice.
Speaker 3 (02:29):
Even though Daniel's just a kid. He's had to grow
up fast.
Speaker 2 (02:33):
He's had to.
Speaker 3 (02:33):
Think about things that other kids don't have to. Unfortunately,
some people don't just see him as a kid who
likes video games and music because he's trans. In full transparency,
this is my first time that I've met a Latin
trans kid. So some of us are learning together and
Daniel does a beautiful job of holding space for me.
(02:56):
And while his trans identity is not his Texas, it's
not the most important part of who he is, it
does impact his life and his family's decisions. Like when
it comes to figuring out where Daniel goes to school,
they have to think more actively about things like policy, safety,
and respect.
Speaker 2 (03:14):
I also know you travel far for school. Oh my gosh, yeah,
what is that journey?
Speaker 4 (03:20):
My parents drive me to a separate district because unlike
a lot of the other districts, in our school, they
have gender and sexuality in their non discrimination policy. And
not only do they have it written down, because some
districts haven't written down, but some districts don't use them
or don't know that they have them. And so then
we've had a lot of other families face like discrimination
(03:41):
or like pushback with the school even though it's in
their policy, and so this school has been on our
site since day one. That's awesome, But as far, it's
a far drive, and it's annoying because all my friends
love up there, right, and they're like, Daniel, you want
to hang out, And I'm like, someone's gonna have to
drive me the forty minutes.
Speaker 2 (03:58):
What do you do on those car rides?
Speaker 4 (04:00):
We listen to music, We go on musical journeys.
Speaker 2 (04:03):
What kind of music do you like to listen to?
Speaker 4 (04:05):
I like Kimsic Lamar, I've been listening.
Speaker 2 (04:07):
To him more, Hey as you should.
Speaker 4 (04:09):
Then I like the Smiths, It's so great. I also
like Mariaccia music. Sometimes I really like Radiohead and that's
my top one.
Speaker 3 (04:17):
Oh my gosh, radio had a place in my house
a lot, and like especially when my brothers. I'm gonna
tell my brother that I'm going to be like, I
met someone who's.
Speaker 4 (04:25):
Your soul, a kindred soul. Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 3 (04:28):
Daniel could choose to just enjoy his life, you know,
the things he cares about, going to school, trying to
fit in, focusing on his personal world and well being
the bubble he lives in. But another big reason I
wanted to talk to Daniel Is because he's an activist
and he cares a lot about the world around him
and making it a better place for everyone, and he's
(04:49):
been doing that for years already.
Speaker 2 (04:51):
What was it like to speak for the first time
to like your legislator? And how old are you? And
how many times have you done it?
Speaker 4 (04:59):
Oh? I can't count that, But I was nine the
first time I testified. I had written a small testimony
that was read by one of our representatives on the
house floor. I remember being really afraid, like really nervous
because I was like a nine year old, and I
was like, I really don't want to read this on
the mic, and I am was like, we can pull
those strings. So I made this like little scratchy screwbally
(05:21):
thing on like an hotel notepad, you know, and I
gave it to our representative and she like read it.
And I had my little stuffed animal, stuffed otter, and
so me and Senor Otter stood like watching over as
my testimony get read, and I remember being like really nervous.
I was like, whoa, everyone's listening to something I wrote.
(05:44):
My mom found my first little testimony.
Speaker 2 (05:48):
Can you read it out?
Speaker 4 (05:49):
Loud. Yeah, I'll read it out loud. I haven't read this.
I actually have no recollection of what it said.
Speaker 2 (05:55):
Great, Okay, we're going to find out together.
Speaker 4 (05:57):
Okay, so I said, I'm knowing different, but it's not
right for people to not be treated equally. For me,
I'm safe at school and home, but for others it's different.
So it's important for truated equal like human beings. Ah,
nine year old little Daniel preaching out here.
Speaker 3 (06:19):
Daniel may only be sixteen, but he's been on the
front lines of this issue for nearly half his life.
Arizona is known as a conservative red state. It's notorious
for banning Chicano books, for racial profiling against immigrant workers,
and for a wave of backlash against LGBTQ and women's rights.
(06:39):
But it is also a region that is incredibly rich
in Latin culture. I wanted to hear firsthand how Daniel
pictured his community, to see what spurred him to fight
for such a complicated place.
Speaker 2 (06:52):
Tell us about where you live.
Speaker 4 (06:54):
I live in southern Arizona. We live in the city
of South Tucson. What I really like is I we're
like thirty forty minutes from the border, and so there's
just like a lot of like Mexican food and like
culture is very important. We can go like down the
street and there's like four of Rospilo places, and then
down the street over here past the church there's my
(07:16):
favorite little hot dog sand But they always knock on
me because whenever I go I get I just get
fun cheese and beans and the like. That's not a
hot dog. You need to get a hot dog. I'm like,
I'm not gonna get a hot dog.
Speaker 2 (07:27):
Oh my god, that's hilarious. Do you have like rapport
with your go to places?
Speaker 3 (07:32):
This warmth and delight makes me smile and definitely picture
a different place than what I would imagine just from
his testimony or the news headlines. Honestly, it reminded me
a little bit of one of my own homes.
Speaker 2 (07:45):
It reminded me of Mexico. Do love Arizona?
Speaker 4 (07:48):
I feel like I love my little pocket of Arizona.
Tuissan Metro was like one of the first cities in
America to have a non discrimination policy, and so then
it was like a safe haven for a bunch of
queer people. And so it's become this like very like
diverse place and it's like super awesome. Ye, Like if
you go like Phoenix or Scottsdale, then we get a
(08:09):
little iffy. Are really grateful that right now Arizona has
a demo kindic governor that's thankfully like blocking out all
of these anti trans bills that are trying to get past.
I love Arizona for that.
Speaker 2 (08:23):
Who do you consider your community?
Speaker 4 (08:26):
That was a big one. I had to think about
that for a second. I was like wow, because I
feel like I just always say my community, but now
what is my community? Whoa crazy?
Speaker 2 (08:35):
Right?
Speaker 4 (08:35):
I feel like I have like little pocketed community, like
I have like my neighborhood community, Like in my where
we're right here, we're like surrounded by queer poc artists,
and I think that's cool and I'm like, y'all just
gotta let me come over so we can do art.
That'd be so cool. And but then I have like
my school community, which I feel really grateful for because
(08:56):
I'm like really happy that my small circle of like
my grade plus like the little bit o where our
grades blend, yeah, has been really supportive since I've like
transitioned those also, like my family, that's my community too.
Speaker 3 (09:12):
Daniel is showing us pieces of a world we may
not have heard about. Knowing our community and feeling connected
personally to our neighbors can be vital for creating safe
and caring spaces on the local level. As happy as
Daniel and his family are in this artistic, diverse pocket
of Arizona, they've had to consider what it would mean
(09:35):
to move out of state, especially during the last election
cycle when a Democratic candidate for governor was running against
a very conservative opponent, Katie Hobbs. The Democrat did win,
by the way, but still in the past few years,
Arizona's legislature has proposed ignoring pronouns, banning trans kids from bathrooms,
(09:58):
taking away funding for any any sort of quote unquote
drag performance, and leaving schools open to lawsuits for having
LGBTQ spaces.
Speaker 2 (10:09):
For Like, the people who would say, why don't you
just move, what would you say back, We're.
Speaker 4 (10:15):
Really grateful that our whole family like lives in Tucson
or at least Phoenix, and so we get a visit.
Often I feel like some people really forget that people
are really cemented in culture m hm, Because at least
in my experience, people who have said that to me
are like white Americans who have lived here and culture
can be found everywhere. For them, it's America, you know, Right.
(10:36):
But I feel like for our meeting, our family lifting
up everything and taking somewhere else, can we lift it
up and ticket somewhere else? Like where can my mom
and my dad rebuild their like art business? We have
to restart from like scratch, like things like that. You know,
I feel like there's so many things people forget, Like
there's a lot of families that just don't have the
funds to go buy another house or rent out an
(10:57):
apartment somewhere else.
Speaker 3 (10:58):
Amen on top of real financial considerations, even if they
were to move, they have to consider what states red
or blue really have robust protections in place?
Speaker 2 (11:10):
And there's less options than you'd hope.
Speaker 4 (11:12):
You can't just pick up and go somewhere. You have
to think about where it is safer transgender people. You know,
where can I go to school safely? Where has safe
policies for me? Things like that?
Speaker 2 (11:22):
How does that make you feel to have to think
about that as a kid?
Speaker 4 (11:25):
Oh, something that I get really upset about it because
some of the kids I go to school with, or
like some people that I know do not have to
think about things like that, and sometimes I wish I
could totally be one of those with us And no,
I don't really care about politics. I don't get too political.
Oh my gosh, that's like ignorance is bliss. But I'm
also like, no, we all pay attention here to like
(11:47):
make sure our world's not just like crumble our democracy.
Speaker 3 (11:50):
Daniel is constantly paying attention. By the time I was
his age, I also felt a lot of responsibility to
protect the climate, and I was really invested in human rights.
Talking to Daniel and other young people, it seems like
that pressure has only grown and intensified, just like the
channels of information that they are exposed to. I also
(12:11):
relate to Daniel being frustrated with his classmates because I
was like that with mine. I didn't think it was
an option not to care. When you're an in betweener
and you love people of different and intersecting identities, you
see the impact of these issues up close. We'll dive
deeper into the layers of Daniel's identity and how he
navigates that and how he's being perceived.
Speaker 4 (12:34):
After the break, I find myself having to like step
around our eggshells when I'm with just like my white
queer friends who don't always get it, and also the
same thing with my sister het Mexi.
Speaker 3 (12:44):
Friends stick with us, Welcome back. Sixteen year old Daniel
sounds so confident and sure of himself, which is something
I absolutely admire. Universally, teenagers are known for having massive
(13:06):
insecurities and constantly asking questions about who they are and
where they're going.
Speaker 2 (13:12):
Accepting yourself is always.
Speaker 3 (13:14):
A journey, and I know for trans folks that story
can take many forms. I was curious how Daniel came
to understand himself so fully.
Speaker 2 (13:24):
He's known he was a boy since he.
Speaker 3 (13:25):
Was five or six, and fortunately he had the foundation
of family and friends who supported him, and that allowed
him to flourish. Once the earliest memory in your life
where you felt affirmed, here's.
Speaker 4 (13:38):
A funny story. So when I was like seven, I
was in like second grade and being like really confused
about why everyone is being so contradictory to my gender.
That feels like really known to me, you know, and
so me and my friends, like I would tell my
friends at school, right and then coming like a sheet
and be like, actually, can you guys call me a
he and they'd be like sure, why not yeah, and
(14:02):
so it was really funny. It would like try out names.
There was a class period a math class where I
was Tony, I love it and I was like by
the end, I was like, no, I don't think that's
the one.
Speaker 2 (14:12):
Wait, that's awesome. So when did you settle on Daniel?
Speaker 4 (14:16):
My parents are like what if we pick? And I
was like, no, no, you guys are not going to pick.
I'll figure it out. When I picked my name, I
had to be like ten or eleven. I want to sorry,
be a little younger. Between nine to eleven. It was
a big Minecraft YouTube fan. I was watching YouTube and
it was when dantydm. Do you know who that is? No,
(14:39):
he's like a Minecraft YouTuber. He's very famous, and so
I used to watch his videos all the time. And
one day I think it was like he made like
a bunch of money and he was on like the
British news and it was like Daniel Middleton has made
X amount of dollars on YouTube. So cool, and I
heard that I was like, whoa, that's the one someone
(15:01):
As I went to mom, can I be Daniel? And
she was like.
Speaker 2 (15:04):
Okay, So yeah, I got it. Okay, okay, so that
is how you got your name.
Speaker 4 (15:11):
From alinecraft YouTuber. Great. But my middle name, which is Alonso,
is from my grandfather because that's his middle name.
Speaker 2 (15:17):
Oh that's sweet.
Speaker 4 (15:18):
We have one meaningful one.
Speaker 2 (15:20):
Also, what is it like to have supportive parents?
Speaker 3 (15:23):
Look, I know it's crazy that I even have to
ask what it's like to be affirmed, because unconditional love,
especially love for your child, should be the norm and
not the exception.
Speaker 4 (15:34):
I'm very grateful because my parents have given me the
resources I've needed. They see me as like a boy,
only they use my correct pronouns, they use my name.
They create space, they create community for me, and they
also did it behind a lot of like closed doors.
That way I wouldn't have to see things like that.
You know. They came out to my family basically because
I was like eight nine, Like how am I going
(15:55):
to face a room full of people like that? You know,
I'm like a's shy little a Chriel. So they made
they made the community. They built the space for me,
and they said that they found a space unsafe and supportive.
Then they were not in our space, and so I'm
really grateful for that.
Speaker 3 (16:10):
How's your extended family. Do you feel like you had
to face anything with them?
Speaker 4 (16:15):
I was told when I was younger, I came out
to my cousin before anyone else and because she used
to babysit me, and I was like, I'm actually a boy.
He should call me a heat and so she was like,
let's do it. That's awesome, and so at her house
and with her husband, but they would just call me
he and I got to play on the like PS four.
It was awesome. Little did I know that they were like,
(16:37):
guess what I found out.
Speaker 3 (16:39):
Here's the thing is, like, this is the problem with
like Latin culture.
Speaker 2 (16:43):
It's the cheese may we love the gossip.
Speaker 3 (16:46):
Daniels and my Latinia. They're different shades, but there's a
lot of overlap. Latin culture is incredibly loving and at
the same time is still grappling with some quote unquote
old ways of thinking. On the one hand, and making
sure your people are good and happy is paramount. We
exist for our families. Yet at the same time, there's
(17:08):
this idea of ge vadis. It's the concept that there's
a right way.
Speaker 2 (17:13):
Of doing things.
Speaker 3 (17:15):
It's wanting to follow society's rules and caring about your appearance.
Gender equality is something that's still being figured out in
Latin culture. The expectations of men and women is still
pretty rigid in many ways. Often queer sexualities and people
who are gender nonconforming are still not understood. Their identities
(17:36):
are seen as a choice. Within the Catholic tradition, some
people ask how could God be wrong in how.
Speaker 2 (17:44):
They physically made someone?
Speaker 3 (17:46):
But how I see it is the Catholic tradition taught
me that the body is just the vessel.
Speaker 2 (17:52):
What makes me in the image.
Speaker 3 (17:54):
Of God is my soul, my mind, my spirit, and
God did not get that wrong, and to me, that's
why it's crucial to trust others journeys. These ideas are
really ingrained, So even if someone wants to be more
open minded and accepting of their friends and family members,
(18:16):
someone like Daniel might be coming up against how these
ideas are deeply cemented and take time to unlearn. But
as a kid up against this, it can feel scary, infuriating,
and unfair to have to wait for adults to respect
you and treat you how you deserve to be.
Speaker 4 (18:36):
At my Lightning and Fleen party, which was just about cars,
not but gender, they thought that was our way of
coming out, and so they were not happy. It was
definitely harder me and my mom and my dad. We
stepped away from both sides of the family for like
two ish years. A lot of them didn't understand, they
didn't want to understand for a lot of other good
chunks of time. And only so many of them have
(18:59):
come around. And sometimes they like slip up and they
say the wrong things, and sometimes they say really wrong things.
You know, in the beginning they are not all for it.
But I'm grateful that at least a good majority of
them are.
Speaker 3 (19:12):
Shout out to all the caregivers and parents who have
been put in in the work. Daniel told me that
this isn't the case for some of his friends' families.
Their parents will quote unquote forget that their kid came out,
refuse to let go of the child they thought they
were raising, or they think using pronouns is enough and
don't provide other forms of support. According to the Trevor Project,
(19:35):
the sad reality is that nearly forty percent of homeless
youth are LGBTQ kids who have been rejected by their families.
So what are the ways in which you feel like
you think people should be supportive. What are the resources
that you think every queer kid needs or trans kids need.
Speaker 4 (19:55):
I feel like step one is having parents that are
willing to do the work. Because once you have a
family or like a space that is going to be
safe and supportive for you, then everything comes a little
easier because, for example, my parents they were like, okay,
we got it. And so that's when we went to school,
(20:17):
like archs just for a school and had a meeting
and was like, hey, our kids trans you have to
accommodate a B and C. And some schools are going
to be crazy and be like now we're not going
to do a B and C for you. As that's
when I'm like, okay, cool, our kid's not going to
go here no more.
Speaker 3 (20:32):
Daniel feels that the biggest thing to remember is that
we have to be willing to learn and grow. That
is often the best form of support.
Speaker 4 (20:40):
Well, let's like talk about it. A lot of like disrespect,
like from like family, like friends, doesn't come from like hate,
it comes from ignorance.
Speaker 3 (20:48):
This open attitude of ask me questions, let's talk can
be so productive and also really draining, especially if there's
a lot of misinformation or fear mongering surrounding the topic.
Some of those biases might come out in the questions
that are being asked.
Speaker 4 (21:04):
I'll have someone like ask me the craziest questions out
of pure ignorance.
Speaker 3 (21:09):
I'll be like, hey, whoa, can you give an example
of what you mean by that? Or like a crazy
question that you've had, like a friend or a family
member ask you like.
Speaker 4 (21:17):
In third grade, which was when I just started my
social transition, and there was like it was like twenty fifteen,
twenty sixteen, and so now we're in like this uprise
of anti trans missinformation.
Speaker 2 (21:30):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (21:31):
And so if I was sick for three days and
I would come back, kids would genuinely come up to
me like did you get the surgery yet?
Speaker 2 (21:39):
Oh?
Speaker 4 (21:39):
And I was like, I'm eight, and I feel like
if I was older, I would have been like, that's
not appropriate to ask people. And I also know, because
I'm eight.
Speaker 3 (21:51):
Little kids are sponges who absorb all kinds of ideas
from the world and adults around them. But questions like
this will be familiar to anyone who's been other And look,
the reality is, sometimes our biases run so deep we
are gonna mess up.
Speaker 2 (22:08):
That's part of life. I've been on both sides of this.
Speaker 3 (22:12):
I've been asked overly invasive questions and I've also said
the wrong thing. And when you mess up, it doesn't
mean that you should pull away from hard conversations altogether.
Speaker 2 (22:23):
It just means we need.
Speaker 3 (22:24):
To have the wherewithal to realize that maybe a question
was too private or personal, and to be more receptive
and kinder next time, because even if it's unintentional, a
lack of awareness can come off as invasive or callous.
It can feel like you're turning someone's experience into entertainment.
The person answering your question might feel vulnerable or hurt.
(22:46):
I think of one of the tenets of the famous book,
the Four Agreements, and it's something my mother likes to
remind me of, which is don't make assumptions. It's hard
to weed out and notice our assumptions. Get is vital
in order to have better communication and care.
Speaker 2 (23:07):
Yeah, it's so weird.
Speaker 3 (23:08):
Like it's funny because I find this even with like
Latino identity, right, like whenever you're a minority in any way,
sometimes people ask really inappropriate questions as like the first
round of things, versus being like, hey, how are you
Are you okay?
Speaker 2 (23:24):
Yeah, you know, as simple as that.
Speaker 4 (23:26):
I recently was talking to one of my friends, right,
and I was like, I me and my other friend
were on the car. We were talking because both were
my dad's immigrated here from Mexico, right, okay, And so
we were talking about that and I was like, no, yeah,
my dad immigrated here. And then our friend jargon was like, oh,
did he come here legally or illegally? And I was
like that's your first thought? Leave me alone?
Speaker 2 (23:49):
Excuse me? Wow, that's so interesting.
Speaker 3 (23:53):
But then also like people don't talk about that, So
sometimes when people don't ask, sometimes you don't get the opportunity,
which is like a weird catch twenty two too. If
they don't ask, you don't get the opportunity to be like, hey,
that's not a great question, and it's like also a
little bit of a dangerous question depending on how while
we know each other.
Speaker 2 (24:09):
Blah blah blah.
Speaker 4 (24:10):
That's what I always mean between ignorance and hate, because
I feel like a lot of growth happens when I
talk to like when I have a dialogue with people
and be like, actually, you shouldn't ask questions like that
or actually this question sounds comfortable for me to answer,
but for a lot of other showing people it might
not be. A part of me feels grateful that at
least they're asking me. Like some points, I can get
(24:31):
upset about it, but alsotimes I just think it's funny sometimes.
And maybe that's my brain compartmentalizing crazy things happening or something.
I don't know, but like I sometimes find it funny
and I'm like, oh, dude, you're so silly.
Speaker 3 (24:46):
I love that Daniel has the ability to bring lightheartedness
to a serious conversation while he's used to having to
represent so many groups of people. I'm sure it can
be lonely and finding spaces to call home is important.
Do you get to hang out with a lot of
other queer and trans kids or is it like a
specific case did you have to like create and build
(25:08):
the community. Oh?
Speaker 4 (25:10):
Actually, my parents totally did that for me. They totally
built queer youth around me at school. We build it ourselves.
But my parents went and found a family support group
and there was like three o their families and there
were like thirteen, fourteen, fifteen, and I was like eight.
Speaker 3 (25:26):
That's kind of great, though, It's like then you have
like older siblings too, like in certain ways, So when
have you felt seen Tell me the.
Speaker 4 (25:33):
First day we went to this support group, it's me
and all the older kids, but they're really cool and
we got to hang out and play like goldfish and
Food's Bone. And then by the end of it, my
mom was like, oh, Daniel, it's time to go, and
I was like, okay, buy my new friends peace out.
And so we left and on our drive back was like, so,
what was it like being with a bunch of other
(25:54):
trans kids? And I was like they were trans, ay,
And I feel like that moment was like very significant
because I mean, and my family are in the middle
of this like really hard time with like family and school.
So in a lot of spaces, I was like the
trans kid. Yeah, but in this space I didn't have
(26:15):
to be. I feel like when I look back on it,
I was like, there was like a sense of like
knowing and understanding each other. Yeah, I didn't get to
have yet, And so then experiencing it was really awesome.
Speaker 3 (26:26):
It's such a great feeling when you feel at ease
and at home. But being an in between her means
fitting in will always be multi layered. For Daniel, even
being with trans and queer friends, he may not feel
fully understood because he's Latino, and likewise, with his cisgender
and heterosexual Latin friends, he may feel like his queerness
(26:48):
isn't fully seen. What is it like I like to
be queer and Latino in Arizona?
Speaker 4 (26:55):
I would say it's pretty tough on the low, actually
not even on the low, on the up high. Trying
to find the crossroads is one of the most difficult
parts of it because sometimes if I hang out with
some of my white and queer friends, being like white
and queer versus being like bipocking queer is a very
different experience, and I find myself having to like step
(27:17):
around eggshells when I'm with just like my white queer
friends who don't always get it, and also the same
thing with my sister hed Mexi friends.
Speaker 3 (27:24):
I also remember you told me a story where your
white queer friends were like, why are you being so ghetto?
Speaker 2 (27:30):
Or like, why do you look ghetto?
Speaker 4 (27:32):
I were like a value shirt with the chain and
some pants and they were like, hen you you look
like a gangster, and I was like, you don't say
that to me.
Speaker 3 (27:43):
I can relate when you're white passing. The days you
don't pass as white are days that you especially pay
the consequences for With hurtful jokes and assumptions. The stereotypes
come out, and people feel like they get a free
pass to say something since you're so obviously not simulating.
When you're alone, the only one that becomes even more
(28:05):
the case. Having to vocalize boundaries is something Daniel and
everyone who has some sort of multi layered background has
had to do, even with loved ones, no matter how
hard or seemingly insignificant. Something Daniel and I have in
common is that we're proud of our Latino roots, and
neither of us have backed away or hidden them, which
can make you feel both connected and isolated. This sense
(28:29):
of standing up for your full self is what Daniel
brings to his activism more when we come back from
this break and we're back having been in the political
arena testifying since he was nine, Daniel has dealt with
all the ups and downs of talking to adults in power.
(28:52):
When he first started, I do.
Speaker 4 (28:54):
Remember I feeling like really excited and like empowered. Afterwards, Yeah, yeah,
like all these people actually listened.
Speaker 3 (29:02):
Now Daniel's already a seasoned activist at the age of sixteen,
and a lot has changed over time.
Speaker 2 (29:08):
What's it like doing it now? How do you feel now?
Speaker 4 (29:11):
Like now? When I feel invisible is mostly like when
I have to go testify or when I have to
go meet with people the government official represent officials that
surprisingly you would have thought would have been it would
have been an opposite. But that's really when I face
a lot of transphobia. And that's really when I face
a lot of discrimination and things like that, when people,
(29:31):
when our own representatives who are there to protect me
and represent me right, end up flipping that on its head,
and in all actuality, they're putting me in more danger
than I was before. It's really the meaning. It's really
disheartening because they just ignore a lot of what you say.
Speaker 3 (29:48):
So much effort and energy goes into these meetings, and
then while Daniel is testifying, suddenly the subject will be changed,
and unfortunately he ends up feeling unheard.
Speaker 4 (30:00):
Oh my gosh. A lot of the times the representatives
try to be like, oh cutesye I love kids, blah
blah blah blah, and they ask really the meaning questions.
One time, I was like the only reason I've been
successful in school and been able to keep these good
grades and I live that happy teenage life is because
I was supported my school and I mentioned that I
(30:20):
was in jazz combo. One of the representatives like, oh,
what do you play? I was like, that's not what
we're talking about.
Speaker 2 (30:29):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (30:29):
They'll ask things like that and then they'll say yes
and they'll pass these harmful, discriminatory bills. I feel like
that's a lot of times when I feel unseen. All
they see is some little kid. What is he gonna know?
Speaker 3 (30:43):
Despite these continuous letdowns, he does this work because he
knows he's part of something bigger and it has to
be done.
Speaker 4 (30:50):
They're going to vote and why they're going to vote,
and a lot of time testimony doesn't like matter to them,
which is like really annoying and like infuriating. But I
feel like it's also really important at the same time,
because if you're on the record, you see how many people,
like people that like historians go through this stuff, and
I'm like, I don't know, y'all are going to see that.
(31:10):
There was a lot of trans people who did not
like these bills, men who strongly like were like, please
do not past these bills and they did it anyways,
you know, right, they know what they're doing, and it's
import that we see that they're know what they're doing
instead of treating them like children that don't know what
they're doing.
Speaker 3 (31:29):
Daniel doesn't feel like he's only being failed on the
state level or only by Republicans. Our conversation happened well
before the year's presidential election, but Daniel still had concerns
regardless of what party was in power. He's not only
being let down when it comes to trans rights. He
believes all youth need to have a bigger say when
(31:50):
it comes to the policies that affects their future.
Speaker 4 (31:53):
I feel like a lot of times we get stuck
having to settle for people like politicians, people that say
they care, but also like don't. I'm grateful Joe Biden
supports trans kids, but he also won't ensure a safe
world for us in the future like climate change, yeah,
or a police reform, And so it feels contradictory when
(32:16):
you want to love and protect like the youth in
your country, especially trans youth, but you also won't ensure
that they'll have a safe world in the future.
Speaker 2 (32:26):
What do you wish you had more control.
Speaker 4 (32:28):
Over that's a big question. What the heck?
Speaker 2 (32:31):
I know, sorry, I.
Speaker 4 (32:33):
Mean if I could, like, if I could play out
them and be like, are you gonna go over here?
You're going to do all that? I wish I could
just like make it a lot easier for like younger trans.
Speaker 3 (32:43):
Kids, because trans kids are up against a lot. There's
a whole political machine trying to prevent them from living
their lives freely and fully. The bathroom bill is a
perfect example. It's at the core of the anti trans movement,
and in some way, fighting over bathrooms can seem frivolous
and unnecessary, but it's a tactic of oppression that has
(33:06):
been used for generations. It's used to control a person's
ability to be part of public life. It's a tactic
we've seen before in the civil rights movements and the
Chicano rights movement. Now trans kids are the latest targets
in the mission to marginalize people. Daniel wants trans people
to be seen as more than just body parts in
(33:28):
their full humanity, and his activism centers that so beautifully.
Just look at trans prom.
Speaker 4 (33:37):
Trance prom was like a rally me and all my
other friends put together and it was a big protest
dance on the National Mall in Washington, d C.
Speaker 3 (33:47):
Over two hundred people attended from across seventeen states. The
event made national headlines.
Speaker 4 (33:53):
We marshally Supreme Court, and the party did not end there.
We kept dancing to our representatives all in there that
are colicking up some hateful legislation and they're stuck in
their office chair and they look out the window and
riving a party. But guess what, they're not invited. Boohoo.
Speaker 3 (34:09):
In the face of fear tactics that often paint trans
people as scary, trans prom.
Speaker 2 (34:15):
Is a beautiful display of a joyful.
Speaker 3 (34:18):
Resistance and existence. How do you stay inspired and how
do you stay positive? How do you not get discouraged
by like what's happening?
Speaker 4 (34:29):
I feel like it's like a case by case thing again,
because for me sometimes if I'm posted somewhere and I
get hay comments, like, I start kind of giggling, Like
I was posted on like a government Instagram page and
they were like interviews with trans kids and their parents.
It was a really great piece. I really liked it.
But someone commented for my gas prices now this, and
(34:52):
I was like I don't know how I'm tied together
with your gas prices. I'm really sorry that's happening. It's
not my fault, right, I want the lower too, Dude.
Speaker 2 (35:01):
It's funny that you talk about like how much you laugh.
It's like you cultivate a sense of like play and joy,
Like you look at things with a lot of joy.
Is that true?
Speaker 4 (35:10):
I'd say so. My friends are like Daniel, you walk
around the world with so much joy, and I'm like, yeah,
I do. I feel like when I say sometimes I
feel kind of snabby about it because I know a
lot of other trans people don't see it with this
much joy. And I feel like it's because I've had
really supportive parents, and I've been supported at school, and
I'm in a state right now that thankfully rest assured
(35:32):
for the next two years, there's not going to be
like any anti trans bills being passed unless they bypass
the governor's veto. But like, we're in this safe bubble
and I've been able to cultivate my own confidence.
Speaker 3 (35:50):
Hearing Daniel say that he feels guilty over his joy
breaks my heart because joy is something that should be
present in every child.
Speaker 2 (36:00):
It's life.
Speaker 3 (36:01):
But Daniel knows that these circumstances that helped him feel
safe and happy are not afforded to everyone. What's something
that you think would make the world a better place
if everyone did it.
Speaker 4 (36:14):
This is gonna sound so corny that if people actually
abided by the Golden rule, treat others the way they
want you want to be treated. I still feel like
I wish people listened more, being a good listener and
being willing to grow, and being willing to accept and
set boundaries, being like a cantering person, and not just
(36:36):
like caring about like people around you, but like Karen
about like the world around them. That just been good
but dumb south Park quote of when Carvin was like,
what's the difference between gods and emos? And he was like,
emos cry about themselves and goths cry about the world.
And I think that's so funny, So.
Speaker 2 (36:53):
You want to cry about the world.
Speaker 3 (36:57):
Hearing this South Park reference after a deep moment is
a perfect reminder that Daniel is still just a sixteen
year old and also very human. We oscillate from serious
topics to silly random references, but ultimately his message is
so genuine. Have love for the world around you. Our
youth understands the world they are inheriting, and they wish
(37:20):
to root it in good, accepting, loving, peaceful policies. I
hope through this conversation we listen closely and start helping
them create better spaces for their future and their present.
Speaker 2 (37:36):
Next week, we'll.
Speaker 3 (37:37):
Be traveling to another red state, one that often gets
ignored and I feel like we weren't taught much about
West Virginia. West Virginia is home to some very quintessential
American workers, coal miners. Coal miners are proudly all we've
got asked for is to be traded brout and give
knowledge day's work for knowledge day's pay. We'll be talking
(38:00):
with three wonderful unionized coal miners about their experiences and
thoughts on what their community needs to survive. Thank you
so much for listening to When You're Invisible. Please leave
us a rating and a review to let us know
what you think. You can find this episode and future
ones on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you
(38:20):
get your podcasts. When You're Invisible is a production of
iHeart Podcasts and myke Gudura podcast Network. I'm your creator
and host, Maria Fernanda Vies. Our story editor is Dylan Hoyer.
This season was produced by ME with additional production from
Dylan Hoyer. Sound designed by Dylan Hoyer with additional support
(38:41):
from ME, Mixing and mastering by Laurence Stump.
Speaker 2 (38:44):
Original theme music by Tony Bruno.
Speaker 3 (38:47):
Our executive producers are Anna Stump and Gisel Frances and
special thanks to our Lean Santana
If someone was to like compartmentalize every part of my
identity onto a map of the United States, maybeing transgender
would be Rhode Island. It's in that little corner of
like important things, but it's also really small.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
So what's your taxes?
Speaker 3 (00:16):
Very ahead, Welcome to when You're Invisible. My name is
Maria Fernanda Dies, but I know not everyone can roll
there are, so it's also fine to call me Maria.
When You're Invisible is my love letter to the working
class and others who are seemingly invisible in our society.
(00:38):
I hope to build a community here that will inspire
you to have generous conversations with others that are different
from you, conversations that might help you see life in
an entirely different way.
Speaker 4 (00:53):
My name is Daniel Shuhil. I'm a sixteen year old
transgender boy in Arizona.
Speaker 3 (01:01):
I was excited to talk to Daniel for so many reasons.
Speaker 2 (01:06):
One is his enthusiasm.
Speaker 4 (01:08):
We're ready, We're ready to get cooking.
Speaker 3 (01:11):
Second, he's a teenager. As a kid, I was fortunate
to be around adults who took me seriously. Today, I
try to listen to what young people have to say.
I find their observations fascinating. I love how much they
surprise me and make me rethink why and how I
see the world, whether it's through their observations, their questions,
(01:32):
or their own stories and resilience. I've gotten to know
a lot of young people through work. I've taught theater,
classes and activities, and I also tutor students of all
ages in math, history, Spanish, English, test prep.
Speaker 4 (01:47):
You knew it.
Speaker 2 (01:47):
Do you like school or do you find it boring?
Speaker 4 (01:49):
I like school because I get to see my friends
and I get to do like jazz band.
Speaker 2 (01:54):
Wait, what do you play?
Speaker 4 (01:55):
I'm learning the upright bass, but I'm not too good yet,
And in jazz combo, I'm playing the guitar.
Speaker 2 (02:01):
What does like an everyday or an average day look like?
Speaker 4 (02:05):
I wake up, make some breakfast, some cereal, I go
to school. I have math. I like math. That's a
good class. Then History, then biotech. It's just like chemistry okay,
and jazz ben jazz combo of Spanish. Then I come
home and I eat, and then I'll play my guitar
for a little bit, and then I play my craft
(02:27):
and then I go to sleep.
Speaker 2 (02:28):
Nice.
Speaker 3 (02:29):
Even though Daniel's just a kid. He's had to grow
up fast.
Speaker 2 (02:33):
He's had to.
Speaker 3 (02:33):
Think about things that other kids don't have to. Unfortunately,
some people don't just see him as a kid who
likes video games and music because he's trans. In full transparency,
this is my first time that I've met a Latin
trans kid. So some of us are learning together and
Daniel does a beautiful job of holding space for me.
(02:56):
And while his trans identity is not his Texas, it's
not the most important part of who he is, it
does impact his life and his family's decisions. Like when
it comes to figuring out where Daniel goes to school,
they have to think more actively about things like policy, safety,
and respect.
Speaker 2 (03:14):
I also know you travel far for school. Oh my gosh, yeah,
what is that journey?
Speaker 4 (03:20):
My parents drive me to a separate district because unlike
a lot of the other districts, in our school, they
have gender and sexuality in their non discrimination policy. And
not only do they have it written down, because some
districts haven't written down, but some districts don't use them
or don't know that they have them. And so then
we've had a lot of other families face like discrimination
(03:41):
or like pushback with the school even though it's in
their policy, and so this school has been on our
site since day one. That's awesome, But as far, it's
a far drive, and it's annoying because all my friends
love up there, right, and they're like, Daniel, you want
to hang out, And I'm like, someone's gonna have to
drive me the forty minutes.
Speaker 2 (03:58):
What do you do on those car rides?
Speaker 4 (04:00):
We listen to music, We go on musical journeys.
Speaker 2 (04:03):
What kind of music do you like to listen to?
Speaker 4 (04:05):
I like Kimsic Lamar, I've been listening.
Speaker 2 (04:07):
To him more, Hey as you should.
Speaker 4 (04:09):
Then I like the Smiths, It's so great. I also
like Mariaccia music. Sometimes I really like Radiohead and that's
my top one.
Speaker 3 (04:17):
Oh my gosh, radio had a place in my house
a lot, and like especially when my brothers. I'm gonna
tell my brother that I'm going to be like, I
met someone who's.
Speaker 4 (04:25):
Your soul, a kindred soul. Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 3 (04:28):
Daniel could choose to just enjoy his life, you know,
the things he cares about, going to school, trying to
fit in, focusing on his personal world and well being
the bubble he lives in. But another big reason I
wanted to talk to Daniel Is because he's an activist
and he cares a lot about the world around him
and making it a better place for everyone, and he's
(04:49):
been doing that for years already.
Speaker 2 (04:51):
What was it like to speak for the first time
to like your legislator? And how old are you? And
how many times have you done it?
Speaker 4 (04:59):
Oh? I can't count that, But I was nine the
first time I testified. I had written a small testimony
that was read by one of our representatives on the
house floor. I remember being really afraid, like really nervous
because I was like a nine year old, and I
was like, I really don't want to read this on
the mic, and I am was like, we can pull
those strings. So I made this like little scratchy screwbally
(05:21):
thing on like an hotel notepad, you know, and I
gave it to our representative and she like read it.
And I had my little stuffed animal, stuffed otter, and
so me and Senor Otter stood like watching over as
my testimony get read, and I remember being like really nervous.
I was like, whoa, everyone's listening to something I wrote.
(05:44):
My mom found my first little testimony.
Speaker 2 (05:48):
Can you read it out?
Speaker 4 (05:49):
Loud. Yeah, I'll read it out loud. I haven't read this.
I actually have no recollection of what it said.
Speaker 2 (05:55):
Great, Okay, we're going to find out together.
Speaker 4 (05:57):
Okay, so I said, I'm knowing different, but it's not
right for people to not be treated equally. For me,
I'm safe at school and home, but for others it's different.
So it's important for truated equal like human beings. Ah,
nine year old little Daniel preaching out here.
Speaker 3 (06:19):
Daniel may only be sixteen, but he's been on the
front lines of this issue for nearly half his life.
Arizona is known as a conservative red state. It's notorious
for banning Chicano books, for racial profiling against immigrant workers,
and for a wave of backlash against LGBTQ and women's rights.
(06:39):
But it is also a region that is incredibly rich
in Latin culture. I wanted to hear firsthand how Daniel
pictured his community, to see what spurred him to fight
for such a complicated place.
Speaker 2 (06:52):
Tell us about where you live.
Speaker 4 (06:54):
I live in southern Arizona. We live in the city
of South Tucson. What I really like is I we're
like thirty forty minutes from the border, and so there's
just like a lot of like Mexican food and like
culture is very important. We can go like down the
street and there's like four of Rospilo places, and then
down the street over here past the church there's my
(07:16):
favorite little hot dog sand But they always knock on
me because whenever I go I get I just get
fun cheese and beans and the like. That's not a
hot dog. You need to get a hot dog. I'm like,
I'm not gonna get a hot dog.
Speaker 2 (07:27):
Oh my god, that's hilarious. Do you have like rapport
with your go to places?
Speaker 3 (07:32):
This warmth and delight makes me smile and definitely picture
a different place than what I would imagine just from
his testimony or the news headlines. Honestly, it reminded me
a little bit of one of my own homes.
Speaker 2 (07:45):
It reminded me of Mexico. Do love Arizona?
Speaker 4 (07:48):
I feel like I love my little pocket of Arizona.
Tuissan Metro was like one of the first cities in
America to have a non discrimination policy, and so then
it was like a safe haven for a bunch of
queer people. And so it's become this like very like
diverse place and it's like super awesome. Ye, Like if
you go like Phoenix or Scottsdale, then we get a
(08:09):
little iffy. Are really grateful that right now Arizona has
a demo kindic governor that's thankfully like blocking out all
of these anti trans bills that are trying to get past.
I love Arizona for that.
Speaker 2 (08:23):
Who do you consider your community?
Speaker 4 (08:26):
That was a big one. I had to think about
that for a second. I was like wow, because I
feel like I just always say my community, but now
what is my community? Whoa crazy?
Speaker 2 (08:35):
Right?
Speaker 4 (08:35):
I feel like I have like little pocketed community, like
I have like my neighborhood community, Like in my where
we're right here, we're like surrounded by queer poc artists,
and I think that's cool and I'm like, y'all just
gotta let me come over so we can do art.
That'd be so cool. And but then I have like
my school community, which I feel really grateful for because
(08:56):
I'm like really happy that my small circle of like
my grade plus like the little bit o where our
grades blend, yeah, has been really supportive since I've like
transitioned those also, like my family, that's my community too.
Speaker 3 (09:12):
Daniel is showing us pieces of a world we may
not have heard about. Knowing our community and feeling connected
personally to our neighbors can be vital for creating safe
and caring spaces on the local level. As happy as
Daniel and his family are in this artistic, diverse pocket
of Arizona, they've had to consider what it would mean
(09:35):
to move out of state, especially during the last election
cycle when a Democratic candidate for governor was running against
a very conservative opponent, Katie Hobbs. The Democrat did win,
by the way, but still in the past few years,
Arizona's legislature has proposed ignoring pronouns, banning trans kids from bathrooms,
(09:58):
taking away funding for any any sort of quote unquote
drag performance, and leaving schools open to lawsuits for having
LGBTQ spaces.
Speaker 2 (10:09):
For Like, the people who would say, why don't you
just move, what would you say back, We're.
Speaker 4 (10:15):
Really grateful that our whole family like lives in Tucson
or at least Phoenix, and so we get a visit.
Often I feel like some people really forget that people
are really cemented in culture m hm, Because at least
in my experience, people who have said that to me
are like white Americans who have lived here and culture
can be found everywhere. For them, it's America, you know, Right.
(10:36):
But I feel like for our meeting, our family lifting
up everything and taking somewhere else, can we lift it
up and ticket somewhere else? Like where can my mom
and my dad rebuild their like art business? We have
to restart from like scratch, like things like that. You know,
I feel like there's so many things people forget, Like
there's a lot of families that just don't have the
funds to go buy another house or rent out an
(10:57):
apartment somewhere else.
Speaker 3 (10:58):
Amen on top of real financial considerations, even if they
were to move, they have to consider what states red
or blue really have robust protections in place?
Speaker 2 (11:10):
And there's less options than you'd hope.
Speaker 4 (11:12):
You can't just pick up and go somewhere. You have
to think about where it is safer transgender people. You know,
where can I go to school safely? Where has safe
policies for me? Things like that?
Speaker 2 (11:22):
How does that make you feel to have to think
about that as a kid?
Speaker 4 (11:25):
Oh, something that I get really upset about it because
some of the kids I go to school with, or
like some people that I know do not have to
think about things like that, and sometimes I wish I
could totally be one of those with us And no,
I don't really care about politics. I don't get too political.
Oh my gosh, that's like ignorance is bliss. But I'm
also like, no, we all pay attention here to like
(11:47):
make sure our world's not just like crumble our democracy.
Speaker 3 (11:50):
Daniel is constantly paying attention. By the time I was
his age, I also felt a lot of responsibility to
protect the climate, and I was really invested in human rights.
Talking to Daniel and other young people, it seems like
that pressure has only grown and intensified, just like the
channels of information that they are exposed to. I also
(12:11):
relate to Daniel being frustrated with his classmates because I
was like that with mine. I didn't think it was
an option not to care. When you're an in betweener
and you love people of different and intersecting identities, you
see the impact of these issues up close. We'll dive
deeper into the layers of Daniel's identity and how he
navigates that and how he's being perceived.
Speaker 4 (12:34):
After the break, I find myself having to like step
around our eggshells when I'm with just like my white
queer friends who don't always get it, and also the
same thing with my sister het Mexi.
Speaker 3 (12:44):
Friends stick with us, Welcome back. Sixteen year old Daniel
sounds so confident and sure of himself, which is something
I absolutely admire. Universally, teenagers are known for having massive
(13:06):
insecurities and constantly asking questions about who they are and
where they're going.
Speaker 2 (13:12):
Accepting yourself is always.
Speaker 3 (13:14):
A journey, and I know for trans folks that story
can take many forms. I was curious how Daniel came
to understand himself so fully.
Speaker 2 (13:24):
He's known he was a boy since he.
Speaker 3 (13:25):
Was five or six, and fortunately he had the foundation
of family and friends who supported him, and that allowed
him to flourish. Once the earliest memory in your life
where you felt affirmed, here's.
Speaker 4 (13:38):
A funny story. So when I was like seven, I
was in like second grade and being like really confused
about why everyone is being so contradictory to my gender.
That feels like really known to me, you know, and
so me and my friends, like I would tell my
friends at school, right and then coming like a sheet
and be like, actually, can you guys call me a
he and they'd be like sure, why not yeah, and
(14:02):
so it was really funny. It would like try out names.
There was a class period a math class where I
was Tony, I love it and I was like by
the end, I was like, no, I don't think that's
the one.
Speaker 2 (14:12):
Wait, that's awesome. So when did you settle on Daniel?
Speaker 4 (14:16):
My parents are like what if we pick? And I
was like, no, no, you guys are not going to pick.
I'll figure it out. When I picked my name, I
had to be like ten or eleven. I want to sorry,
be a little younger. Between nine to eleven. It was
a big Minecraft YouTube fan. I was watching YouTube and
it was when dantydm. Do you know who that is? No,
(14:39):
he's like a Minecraft YouTuber. He's very famous, and so
I used to watch his videos all the time. And
one day I think it was like he made like
a bunch of money and he was on like the
British news and it was like Daniel Middleton has made
X amount of dollars on YouTube. So cool, and I
heard that I was like, whoa, that's the one someone
(15:01):
As I went to mom, can I be Daniel? And
she was like.
Speaker 2 (15:04):
Okay, So yeah, I got it. Okay, okay, so that
is how you got your name.
Speaker 4 (15:11):
From alinecraft YouTuber. Great. But my middle name, which is Alonso,
is from my grandfather because that's his middle name.
Speaker 2 (15:17):
Oh that's sweet.
Speaker 4 (15:18):
We have one meaningful one.
Speaker 2 (15:20):
Also, what is it like to have supportive parents?
Speaker 3 (15:23):
Look, I know it's crazy that I even have to
ask what it's like to be affirmed, because unconditional love,
especially love for your child, should be the norm and
not the exception.
Speaker 4 (15:34):
I'm very grateful because my parents have given me the
resources I've needed. They see me as like a boy,
only they use my correct pronouns, they use my name.
They create space, they create community for me, and they
also did it behind a lot of like closed doors.
That way I wouldn't have to see things like that.
You know. They came out to my family basically because
I was like eight nine, Like how am I going
(15:55):
to face a room full of people like that? You know,
I'm like a's shy little a Chriel. So they made
they made the community. They built the space for me,
and they said that they found a space unsafe and supportive.
Then they were not in our space, and so I'm
really grateful for that.
Speaker 3 (16:10):
How's your extended family. Do you feel like you had
to face anything with them?
Speaker 4 (16:15):
I was told when I was younger, I came out
to my cousin before anyone else and because she used
to babysit me, and I was like, I'm actually a boy.
He should call me a heat and so she was like,
let's do it. That's awesome, and so at her house
and with her husband, but they would just call me
he and I got to play on the like PS four.
It was awesome. Little did I know that they were like,
(16:37):
guess what I found out.
Speaker 3 (16:39):
Here's the thing is, like, this is the problem with
like Latin culture.
Speaker 2 (16:43):
It's the cheese may we love the gossip.
Speaker 3 (16:46):
Daniels and my Latinia. They're different shades, but there's a
lot of overlap. Latin culture is incredibly loving and at
the same time is still grappling with some quote unquote
old ways of thinking. On the one hand, and making
sure your people are good and happy is paramount. We
exist for our families. Yet at the same time, there's
(17:08):
this idea of ge vadis. It's the concept that there's
a right way.
Speaker 2 (17:13):
Of doing things.
Speaker 3 (17:15):
It's wanting to follow society's rules and caring about your appearance.
Gender equality is something that's still being figured out in
Latin culture. The expectations of men and women is still
pretty rigid in many ways. Often queer sexualities and people
who are gender nonconforming are still not understood. Their identities
(17:36):
are seen as a choice. Within the Catholic tradition, some
people ask how could God be wrong in how.
Speaker 2 (17:44):
They physically made someone?
Speaker 3 (17:46):
But how I see it is the Catholic tradition taught
me that the body is just the vessel.
Speaker 2 (17:52):
What makes me in the image.
Speaker 3 (17:54):
Of God is my soul, my mind, my spirit, and
God did not get that wrong, and to me, that's
why it's crucial to trust others journeys. These ideas are
really ingrained, So even if someone wants to be more
open minded and accepting of their friends and family members,
(18:16):
someone like Daniel might be coming up against how these
ideas are deeply cemented and take time to unlearn. But
as a kid up against this, it can feel scary, infuriating,
and unfair to have to wait for adults to respect
you and treat you how you deserve to be.
Speaker 4 (18:36):
At my Lightning and Fleen party, which was just about cars,
not but gender, they thought that was our way of
coming out, and so they were not happy. It was
definitely harder me and my mom and my dad. We
stepped away from both sides of the family for like
two ish years. A lot of them didn't understand, they
didn't want to understand for a lot of other good
chunks of time. And only so many of them have
(18:59):
come around. And sometimes they like slip up and they
say the wrong things, and sometimes they say really wrong things.
You know, in the beginning they are not all for it.
But I'm grateful that at least a good majority of
them are.
Speaker 3 (19:12):
Shout out to all the caregivers and parents who have
been put in in the work. Daniel told me that
this isn't the case for some of his friends' families.
Their parents will quote unquote forget that their kid came out,
refuse to let go of the child they thought they
were raising, or they think using pronouns is enough and
don't provide other forms of support. According to the Trevor Project,
(19:35):
the sad reality is that nearly forty percent of homeless
youth are LGBTQ kids who have been rejected by their families.
So what are the ways in which you feel like
you think people should be supportive. What are the resources
that you think every queer kid needs or trans kids need.
Speaker 4 (19:55):
I feel like step one is having parents that are
willing to do the work. Because once you have a
family or like a space that is going to be
safe and supportive for you, then everything comes a little
easier because, for example, my parents they were like, okay,
we got it. And so that's when we went to school,
(20:17):
like archs just for a school and had a meeting
and was like, hey, our kids trans you have to
accommodate a B and C. And some schools are going
to be crazy and be like now we're not going
to do a B and C for you. As that's
when I'm like, okay, cool, our kid's not going to
go here no more.
Speaker 3 (20:32):
Daniel feels that the biggest thing to remember is that
we have to be willing to learn and grow. That
is often the best form of support.
Speaker 4 (20:40):
Well, let's like talk about it. A lot of like disrespect,
like from like family, like friends, doesn't come from like hate,
it comes from ignorance.
Speaker 3 (20:48):
This open attitude of ask me questions, let's talk can
be so productive and also really draining, especially if there's
a lot of misinformation or fear mongering surrounding the topic.
Some of those biases might come out in the questions
that are being asked.
Speaker 4 (21:04):
I'll have someone like ask me the craziest questions out
of pure ignorance.
Speaker 3 (21:09):
I'll be like, hey, whoa, can you give an example
of what you mean by that? Or like a crazy
question that you've had, like a friend or a family
member ask you like.
Speaker 4 (21:17):
In third grade, which was when I just started my
social transition, and there was like it was like twenty fifteen,
twenty sixteen, and so now we're in like this uprise
of anti trans missinformation.
Speaker 2 (21:30):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (21:31):
And so if I was sick for three days and
I would come back, kids would genuinely come up to
me like did you get the surgery yet?
Speaker 2 (21:39):
Oh?
Speaker 4 (21:39):
And I was like, I'm eight, and I feel like
if I was older, I would have been like, that's
not appropriate to ask people. And I also know, because
I'm eight.
Speaker 3 (21:51):
Little kids are sponges who absorb all kinds of ideas
from the world and adults around them. But questions like
this will be familiar to anyone who's been other And look,
the reality is, sometimes our biases run so deep we
are gonna mess up.
Speaker 2 (22:08):
That's part of life. I've been on both sides of this.
Speaker 3 (22:12):
I've been asked overly invasive questions and I've also said
the wrong thing. And when you mess up, it doesn't
mean that you should pull away from hard conversations altogether.
Speaker 2 (22:23):
It just means we need.
Speaker 3 (22:24):
To have the wherewithal to realize that maybe a question
was too private or personal, and to be more receptive
and kinder next time, because even if it's unintentional, a
lack of awareness can come off as invasive or callous.
It can feel like you're turning someone's experience into entertainment.
The person answering your question might feel vulnerable or hurt.
(22:46):
I think of one of the tenets of the famous book,
the Four Agreements, and it's something my mother likes to
remind me of, which is don't make assumptions. It's hard
to weed out and notice our assumptions. Get is vital
in order to have better communication and care.
Speaker 2 (23:07):
Yeah, it's so weird.
Speaker 3 (23:08):
Like it's funny because I find this even with like
Latino identity, right, like whenever you're a minority in any way,
sometimes people ask really inappropriate questions as like the first
round of things, versus being like, hey, how are you
Are you okay?
Speaker 2 (23:24):
Yeah, you know, as simple as that.
Speaker 4 (23:26):
I recently was talking to one of my friends, right,
and I was like, I me and my other friend
were on the car. We were talking because both were
my dad's immigrated here from Mexico, right, okay, And so
we were talking about that and I was like, no, yeah,
my dad immigrated here. And then our friend jargon was like, oh,
did he come here legally or illegally? And I was
like that's your first thought? Leave me alone?
Speaker 2 (23:49):
Excuse me? Wow, that's so interesting.
Speaker 3 (23:53):
But then also like people don't talk about that, So
sometimes when people don't ask, sometimes you don't get the opportunity,
which is like a weird catch twenty two too. If
they don't ask, you don't get the opportunity to be like, hey,
that's not a great question, and it's like also a
little bit of a dangerous question depending on how while
we know each other.
Speaker 2 (24:09):
Blah blah blah.
Speaker 4 (24:10):
That's what I always mean between ignorance and hate, because
I feel like a lot of growth happens when I
talk to like when I have a dialogue with people
and be like, actually, you shouldn't ask questions like that
or actually this question sounds comfortable for me to answer,
but for a lot of other showing people it might
not be. A part of me feels grateful that at
least they're asking me. Like some points, I can get
(24:31):
upset about it, but alsotimes I just think it's funny sometimes.
And maybe that's my brain compartmentalizing crazy things happening or something.
I don't know, but like I sometimes find it funny
and I'm like, oh, dude, you're so silly.
Speaker 3 (24:46):
I love that Daniel has the ability to bring lightheartedness
to a serious conversation while he's used to having to
represent so many groups of people. I'm sure it can
be lonely and finding spaces to call home is important.
Do you get to hang out with a lot of
other queer and trans kids or is it like a
specific case did you have to like create and build
(25:08):
the community. Oh?
Speaker 4 (25:10):
Actually, my parents totally did that for me. They totally
built queer youth around me at school. We build it ourselves.
But my parents went and found a family support group
and there was like three o their families and there
were like thirteen, fourteen, fifteen, and I was like eight.
Speaker 3 (25:26):
That's kind of great, though, It's like then you have
like older siblings too, like in certain ways, So when
have you felt seen Tell me the.
Speaker 4 (25:33):
First day we went to this support group, it's me
and all the older kids, but they're really cool and
we got to hang out and play like goldfish and
Food's Bone. And then by the end of it, my
mom was like, oh, Daniel, it's time to go, and
I was like, okay, buy my new friends peace out.
And so we left and on our drive back was like, so,
what was it like being with a bunch of other
(25:54):
trans kids? And I was like they were trans, ay,
And I feel like that moment was like very significant
because I mean, and my family are in the middle
of this like really hard time with like family and school.
So in a lot of spaces, I was like the
trans kid. Yeah, but in this space I didn't have
(26:15):
to be. I feel like when I look back on it,
I was like, there was like a sense of like
knowing and understanding each other. Yeah, I didn't get to
have yet, And so then experiencing it was really awesome.
Speaker 3 (26:26):
It's such a great feeling when you feel at ease
and at home. But being an in between her means
fitting in will always be multi layered. For Daniel, even
being with trans and queer friends, he may not feel
fully understood because he's Latino, and likewise, with his cisgender
and heterosexual Latin friends, he may feel like his queerness
(26:48):
isn't fully seen. What is it like I like to
be queer and Latino in Arizona?
Speaker 4 (26:55):
I would say it's pretty tough on the low, actually
not even on the low, on the up high. Trying
to find the crossroads is one of the most difficult
parts of it because sometimes if I hang out with
some of my white and queer friends, being like white
and queer versus being like bipocking queer is a very
different experience, and I find myself having to like step
(27:17):
around eggshells when I'm with just like my white queer
friends who don't always get it, and also the same
thing with my sister hed Mexi friends.
Speaker 3 (27:24):
I also remember you told me a story where your
white queer friends were like, why are you being so ghetto?
Speaker 2 (27:30):
Or like, why do you look ghetto?
Speaker 4 (27:32):
I were like a value shirt with the chain and
some pants and they were like, hen you you look
like a gangster, and I was like, you don't say
that to me.
Speaker 3 (27:43):
I can relate when you're white passing. The days you
don't pass as white are days that you especially pay
the consequences for With hurtful jokes and assumptions. The stereotypes
come out, and people feel like they get a free
pass to say something since you're so obviously not simulating.
When you're alone, the only one that becomes even more
(28:05):
the case. Having to vocalize boundaries is something Daniel and
everyone who has some sort of multi layered background has
had to do, even with loved ones, no matter how
hard or seemingly insignificant. Something Daniel and I have in
common is that we're proud of our Latino roots, and
neither of us have backed away or hidden them, which
can make you feel both connected and isolated. This sense
(28:29):
of standing up for your full self is what Daniel
brings to his activism more when we come back from
this break and we're back having been in the political
arena testifying since he was nine, Daniel has dealt with
all the ups and downs of talking to adults in power.
(28:52):
When he first started, I do.
Speaker 4 (28:54):
Remember I feeling like really excited and like empowered. Afterwards, Yeah, yeah,
like all these people actually listened.
Speaker 3 (29:02):
Now Daniel's already a seasoned activist at the age of sixteen,
and a lot has changed over time.
Speaker 2 (29:08):
What's it like doing it now? How do you feel now?
Speaker 4 (29:11):
Like now? When I feel invisible is mostly like when
I have to go testify or when I have to
go meet with people the government official represent officials that
surprisingly you would have thought would have been it would
have been an opposite. But that's really when I face
a lot of transphobia. And that's really when I face
a lot of discrimination and things like that, when people,
(29:31):
when our own representatives who are there to protect me
and represent me right, end up flipping that on its head,
and in all actuality, they're putting me in more danger
than I was before. It's really the meaning. It's really
disheartening because they just ignore a lot of what you say.
Speaker 3 (29:48):
So much effort and energy goes into these meetings, and
then while Daniel is testifying, suddenly the subject will be changed,
and unfortunately he ends up feeling unheard.
Speaker 4 (30:00):
Oh my gosh. A lot of the times the representatives
try to be like, oh cutesye I love kids, blah
blah blah blah, and they ask really the meaning questions.
One time, I was like the only reason I've been
successful in school and been able to keep these good
grades and I live that happy teenage life is because
I was supported my school and I mentioned that I
(30:20):
was in jazz combo. One of the representatives like, oh,
what do you play? I was like, that's not what
we're talking about.
Speaker 2 (30:29):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (30:29):
They'll ask things like that and then they'll say yes
and they'll pass these harmful, discriminatory bills. I feel like
that's a lot of times when I feel unseen. All
they see is some little kid. What is he gonna know?
Speaker 3 (30:43):
Despite these continuous letdowns, he does this work because he
knows he's part of something bigger and it has to
be done.
Speaker 4 (30:50):
They're going to vote and why they're going to vote,
and a lot of time testimony doesn't like matter to them,
which is like really annoying and like infuriating. But I
feel like it's also really important at the same time,
because if you're on the record, you see how many people,
like people that like historians go through this stuff, and
I'm like, I don't know, y'all are going to see that.
(31:10):
There was a lot of trans people who did not
like these bills, men who strongly like were like, please
do not past these bills and they did it anyways,
you know, right, they know what they're doing, and it's
import that we see that they're know what they're doing
instead of treating them like children that don't know what
they're doing.
Speaker 3 (31:29):
Daniel doesn't feel like he's only being failed on the
state level or only by Republicans. Our conversation happened well
before the year's presidential election, but Daniel still had concerns
regardless of what party was in power. He's not only
being let down when it comes to trans rights. He
believes all youth need to have a bigger say when
(31:50):
it comes to the policies that affects their future.
Speaker 4 (31:53):
I feel like a lot of times we get stuck
having to settle for people like politicians, people that say
they care, but also like don't. I'm grateful Joe Biden
supports trans kids, but he also won't ensure a safe
world for us in the future like climate change, yeah,
or a police reform, And so it feels contradictory when
(32:16):
you want to love and protect like the youth in
your country, especially trans youth, but you also won't ensure
that they'll have a safe world in the future.
Speaker 2 (32:26):
What do you wish you had more control.
Speaker 4 (32:28):
Over that's a big question. What the heck?
Speaker 2 (32:31):
I know, sorry, I.
Speaker 4 (32:33):
Mean if I could, like, if I could play out
them and be like, are you gonna go over here?
You're going to do all that? I wish I could
just like make it a lot easier for like younger trans.
Speaker 3 (32:43):
Kids, because trans kids are up against a lot. There's
a whole political machine trying to prevent them from living
their lives freely and fully. The bathroom bill is a
perfect example. It's at the core of the anti trans movement,
and in some way, fighting over bathrooms can seem frivolous
and unnecessary, but it's a tactic of oppression that has
(33:06):
been used for generations. It's used to control a person's
ability to be part of public life. It's a tactic
we've seen before in the civil rights movements and the
Chicano rights movement. Now trans kids are the latest targets
in the mission to marginalize people. Daniel wants trans people
to be seen as more than just body parts in
(33:28):
their full humanity, and his activism centers that so beautifully.
Just look at trans prom.
Speaker 4 (33:37):
Trance prom was like a rally me and all my
other friends put together and it was a big protest
dance on the National Mall in Washington, d C.
Speaker 3 (33:47):
Over two hundred people attended from across seventeen states. The
event made national headlines.
Speaker 4 (33:53):
We marshally Supreme Court, and the party did not end there.
We kept dancing to our representatives all in there that
are colicking up some hateful legislation and they're stuck in
their office chair and they look out the window and
riving a party. But guess what, they're not invited. Boohoo.
Speaker 3 (34:09):
In the face of fear tactics that often paint trans
people as scary, trans prom.
Speaker 2 (34:15):
Is a beautiful display of a joyful.
Speaker 3 (34:18):
Resistance and existence. How do you stay inspired and how
do you stay positive? How do you not get discouraged
by like what's happening?
Speaker 4 (34:29):
I feel like it's like a case by case thing again,
because for me sometimes if I'm posted somewhere and I
get hay comments, like, I start kind of giggling, Like
I was posted on like a government Instagram page and
they were like interviews with trans kids and their parents.
It was a really great piece. I really liked it.
But someone commented for my gas prices now this, and
(34:52):
I was like I don't know how I'm tied together
with your gas prices. I'm really sorry that's happening. It's
not my fault, right, I want the lower too, Dude.
Speaker 2 (35:01):
It's funny that you talk about like how much you laugh.
It's like you cultivate a sense of like play and joy,
Like you look at things with a lot of joy.
Is that true?
Speaker 4 (35:10):
I'd say so. My friends are like Daniel, you walk
around the world with so much joy, and I'm like, yeah,
I do. I feel like when I say sometimes I
feel kind of snabby about it because I know a
lot of other trans people don't see it with this
much joy. And I feel like it's because I've had
really supportive parents, and I've been supported at school, and
I'm in a state right now that thankfully rest assured
(35:32):
for the next two years, there's not going to be
like any anti trans bills being passed unless they bypass
the governor's veto. But like, we're in this safe bubble
and I've been able to cultivate my own confidence.
Speaker 3 (35:50):
Hearing Daniel say that he feels guilty over his joy
breaks my heart because joy is something that should be
present in every child.
Speaker 2 (36:00):
It's life.
Speaker 3 (36:01):
But Daniel knows that these circumstances that helped him feel
safe and happy are not afforded to everyone. What's something
that you think would make the world a better place
if everyone did it.
Speaker 4 (36:14):
This is gonna sound so corny that if people actually
abided by the Golden rule, treat others the way they
want you want to be treated. I still feel like
I wish people listened more, being a good listener and
being willing to grow, and being willing to accept and
set boundaries, being like a cantering person, and not just
(36:36):
like caring about like people around you, but like Karen
about like the world around them. That just been good
but dumb south Park quote of when Carvin was like,
what's the difference between gods and emos? And he was like,
emos cry about themselves and goths cry about the world.
And I think that's so funny, So.
Speaker 2 (36:53):
You want to cry about the world.
Speaker 3 (36:57):
Hearing this South Park reference after a deep moment is
a perfect reminder that Daniel is still just a sixteen
year old and also very human. We oscillate from serious
topics to silly random references, but ultimately his message is
so genuine. Have love for the world around you. Our
youth understands the world they are inheriting, and they wish
(37:20):
to root it in good, accepting, loving, peaceful policies. I
hope through this conversation we listen closely and start helping
them create better spaces for their future and their present.
Speaker 2 (37:36):
Next week, we'll.
Speaker 3 (37:37):
Be traveling to another red state, one that often gets
ignored and I feel like we weren't taught much about
West Virginia. West Virginia is home to some very quintessential
American workers, coal miners. Coal miners are proudly all we've
got asked for is to be traded brout and give
knowledge day's work for knowledge day's pay. We'll be talking
(38:00):
with three wonderful unionized coal miners about their experiences and
thoughts on what their community needs to survive. Thank you
so much for listening to When You're Invisible. Please leave
us a rating and a review to let us know
what you think. You can find this episode and future
ones on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you
(38:20):
get your podcasts. When You're Invisible is a production of
iHeart Podcasts and myke Gudura podcast Network. I'm your creator
and host, Maria Fernanda Vies. Our story editor is Dylan Hoyer.
This season was produced by ME with additional production from
Dylan Hoyer. Sound designed by Dylan Hoyer with additional support
(38:41):
from ME, Mixing and mastering by Laurence Stump.
Speaker 2 (38:44):
Original theme music by Tony Bruno.
Speaker 3 (38:47):
Our executive producers are Anna Stump and Gisel Frances and
special thanks to our Lean Santana
Host
Maria Fernanda Diez
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