Between Contractions

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
S Wine Down with Janet Kramer and I Heart Radio podcast.
We're still here somehow somewhere I We're still here. The
baby is still in my belly for now. I mean, um,
Sarah isn't a studio our beloved Sarah cruises in the

(00:26):
studio or as I like tell our Sarah Gretzky, that's
what I have you as my phone. Um. But she
just felt my contraction because I was trying. I was like,
I'm having a contraction of having contraction, and he felt
the difference. Yeah, but it's freaking me out. You're gonna
be okay. I don't know. I've been so stressed the
last week. But I feel like, why do people get

(00:47):
so freaked out about because I know a few of
the people that are so freaked about babies and bellies,
like even you like to this morning when I put
your hand on me, I was like, oh my god,
feel this feeling. It sounds bad. It's when you see
it and looks like an alien coming out of Literally
was like that is he like just pumping me? Yeah? Literally? Yeah.
I think it's when you can't relate, like when you
talk to try and talk to guys about like a

(01:08):
period you know no, Like that's why it freaks me
out because I can't really like because I don't I
didn't pay attention. And do you want to you want
to be a mom though? Oh obviously yeah, but like
I just it's just from like soft and then it
got hard and then I'm afraid you're gonna pay it out.
That's right, Remember weird Sarah and I went to remember

(01:28):
when we went to Vegas that was so much fun
radio festival and she goes home taking care of her daughter.
You were on a golf trip. Yeah, I don't want
to hear it. Yeah, with your dad, that's right. So, no,
you weren't home taking care of the kid thing. It's
not a very expensive yeah. Um. And so but Sarah

(01:53):
is like just standing out the window. I thought she
was going to have something like really just like special
to say. I was I was literally, no, you would
to the bathroom and then you came out, and while
you were in there, I was just thinking, yeah, and
this is what this is the thought that came to
Sara's brain. Would you like to say what do you
actually want to resay what you said? Or I mean
I literally stand by it. I was curious if you
ever felt or if someone has ever pooped out their baby?

(02:17):
What And that's exactly my response back, what why would
you think you can't poop? First of all, your whole,
your poophole is different than your vaginal. I understand that. However,
it's all just I don't know you're squatting. Things are happening.
Don't you like pee yourself sometimes and you don't know,
well he sometimes, Yeah, that can happen. I just didn't know,

(02:39):
you know, I don't know what I'm so like when
I'm pushing like my poop, you're afraid that I'm gonna
push my baby out? Yes? Mark, why are you adding
head over there? I just see what she's saying, that's all.
I'm just trying to thank you because I get it. Yeah,
you're using the same muscles to push out your poop
in your baby. Well it isn't it like not like
your babies can't come through your u She literally just

(03:01):
like I just feel like it's like ready position. I mean,
he has head down. There's news reports of women giving
birth in bathroom Dolf. That's crazy. I assume that's what happened.
They pushed too hard. I mean, you're a lot stronger
than you think. It is true. You know what I
would love if you pooped out your baby. That would
be great. I just think that would be just a
great three sixty karma. I mean switch Hinkiers. Thank you,

(03:24):
thank you. Um. It's obviously been a total devastation here
in California with the wildfires, and our hearts go out
to all the family members and the houses and just
everything that um Northern California in here in southern California
that you know, people have been dealing with the fires.
Sarah has an interesting story that happened to her regarding

(03:44):
the fires. Yeah, it was crazy. So the night before
was actually the shooting Upperland, which is can't even devastating.
But the shooter lived a block away from so boyfriends.
So did you ever know did you ever meet him?
Never met him and didn't know his mom or anything.

(04:05):
But I know the house, like when I saw the house, like,
oh yeah, I walked past that house walking my dog
every single day. Have I haven't seen the news around
the parents? How were they? The main thing with this
guy seems to be although now high school friends of
him are saying he was aggressive in high school, but
a lot of people a saying that he was a
marine and when he got back he was not the
same anymore. And we all know that different people react

(04:26):
differently to the ravel of trauma. And he was infantry
like machine like he was in it. Yeah, So I
don't know how much you blame the mom how much,
Like I think there's a natural instinct to blame him
or the mom or somebody or society or whatever it is.
I don't know who to blame in this situation. It's
just it's just all around. Yeah, but ties from there,

(04:46):
and his family lives there. So the night before we
woke up to I mean I had fifteen misscalls he
had and you pan it. I mean, I don't now.
I know what my mom would always say, like, you know,
when you get a phone call in the middle of
the night's just never And I'm like, who could be
what could be going on? And it was his mom
calling us, you know, are you okay? As everyone okay,
telling us about the shooting. And then the next night

(05:07):
we wake up again to so many phone calls and
our dogs are going crazy, and then I started freaking out.
I'm like, is there an earthquake? What's going on? And
I go to our front door and his whole family
is there. Wayne Gretzky is standing. His whole family showed
up to our apartment, which is not very big, and
they're like, we had to evacuate the fun And it
was just like it's just so much and it's one

(05:27):
of those things where you never think it could happen,
and then all of a sudden, like I'm making coffee.
It was did How does Wayne Gretzky like his coffee? He? Oh,
my god, So I you have to make him breakfast.
They were actually the best because Tie and I were like, uh,
make yourselves at home. By the way, it wasn't just Wayne,
it was it was Wayne and his mom and his

(05:50):
two little siblings and his uncle and the tennis coach
and yeah, and they all they were like, we had
to evacuate. We got on the road, we got out
of there, and so made them coffee. He liked it
with half and half, but I accidentally put in sweet cream.
He literally go with the great one. He goes, this

(06:10):
is the best coffee ever. And Janet goes, what did
you put in it? And I go sweet cream and
she goes, well, the way, that's why I was like
he goes, I said half and half, and I was like, yeah,
I don't know if we have nothing, and I mean
we're never we don't have anything. But they were so nice.
I mean we and I were like, okay, we went
back to sleep, and then we woke up and his
mom got his flowers and like she stalked our fridge,

(06:32):
and I was like really no, but I'm like, you
guys are the one. Like, I mean, they didn't sleep
at all. They stayed up all night watching the news
tracking it because they didn't even they couldn't even think.
And and then of course there's just you know, parents
and their houses had their houses, fine, they're okay, they've
been there, Um, their neighborhood, we've been that any house
in that neighborhood. No, but it was crazy. His brother

(06:53):
was putting up videos remember the late I don't know
if you guys saw the lake did you see that?
So they were getting helicopters were going in there, getting water,
and it was crazy because his brother was like documenting
on Instagram. Um all you know, but it was crazy.
But it changes so much. But I'm pretty sure, yeah,
all everything lifted and they're fine to be there now.

(07:14):
I felt like, I mean, even with just the shooting
and the fires, I felt so helpless, like not being
able to do something like I wanted to be able to.
It's the worst we were talking. I mean, I know,
yeah you came over there, Yeah you were Yeah, you
came over that next morning, and I was like, man,
I know, I'm ten months pregnant basically, but I wish
I could go help put out fires. But you just
kind of feel so helpless sitting in your cozy little

(07:36):
home Christmas. You know. It's like it's the similar feeling
of like if you go to a third world country,
right and do like a charity thing like on the
Hunter and stuff like that, and then you come back
you feel guilty for having what you have when really
just want to you should just appreciate it more. It's
like the same thing. It's like we feel bad. You know,
we're talking outside here about people who you know, they

(07:57):
have homes and they're the only four homes at the
entire namehood that you know didn't catch fire. It's like,
do you feel bad walking into your house? You know
you can only do so much to get back to people.
I feel like it's just a heavy feeling for everyone
is speaking up. You remember when we took out the
water the water capsule in the shower because we wanted

(08:18):
more water to come out. You're terrible person bringing it
up or are you not remembering? You for you telling
me to do that? This is all you're doing. There's
like there's like water restrictors, water restrictors in like this
hotel that we're in, and Jan's like, I need more.

(08:41):
If you guys want to donate it all and help
out with people are here suffering from the fires. If
you text the words red Cross to nine, that's an
automatic ten dollar donation, just you know, to help. Every
little bit helps. At this point, people have lost everything,
lots of people. So again, text red Cross to nine.
Do you in your ten dollar latte from Starbucks? You

(09:02):
could have given that to the fire people. Yes, yes,
may be real guilty for drinking their morning coffee. I know.
So we just talked about Shoot, no, we were so gilt.
Hey Sarah, you still don't have a ring on your finger? No,
I don't, Okay, moving on, moving on alright, So one
of the things that Michael and I are now loving
in our houses are Amazon Fire TV. So it brings

(09:24):
all the live and streaming content you love to the
biggest screen in your house, so you can watch everything
you love with access to Netflix, Prime Video, Hulu and
so much more. And with our baby on the way,
we're trying to binge as much as we can right now,
so it's great. And you can even watch YouTube videos
and access websites like Reddit and Facebook. On fire TV,
there's makeup tutorials, Michael, if you want to like, watch

(09:46):
any of those cake icing videos to all the new
drama that's all the buzz, whatever you're into. It is
on fire TV cooking videos if you want to watch
some of those exactly, and you can just be like, hey, Alexa,
open YouTube. I mean, I just think that's great because
you can have everything in your house just working together.
And if that wasn't enough, you can listen to this

(10:07):
podcast and music with the I Heart Radio app on
fire TV. So hey, head over to www dot Amazon
dot com slash wind down again, that's Amazon dot com
slash wind down to order a fire TV of your
very owned and they make great gifts for your friends
and family this holiday season. Hey, do you want to

(10:28):
bring up real quick what we talked about? Remember, say
so something happened the other day where Okay, we've heard
that when you have a sibling with a baby, to
always bring the gift for the sibling, the older siblings,
I've heard, and not to go straight to the baby.

(10:50):
So when our baby boy comes, you know, people don't
go straight to the baby. You say hello to Jolie first.
And that some that we should keep presents on hand
for Jolie because no one is going to bring presents
for job. So we have a friend that just had
a new baby, and they've got two girls and this
is their third. This is their third, and so I
was like, oh, this is a perfect opportunity for us

(11:11):
to be able to bring the presents for their two
girls on top of their baby, you know, And so
go ahead. And this is an old work buddy of mine, Okay,
a friendship that I value. And I asked Janna, I said, hey,
when you go get something, because she's running out to
this little cute store by our house to get something
for the infant, I said, hey, can you just grab

(11:31):
a bag, like just like a present bag to put
these other presents in, because I didn't want to show
up in the store bag that we got him in
like plastic bag. I don't want to carry about themselves.
I just wanted a nice bag just to carry in.
Just that's it. I don't want to carry the two
presents under our arms. And Jane didn't get one because
what there's no reason, Okay, but I didn't a real

(11:53):
quick and I was thinking about this yesterday and I
actually kind of like, I was it really did bother
me because I was it didn't. I wasn't asking, like,
what do you think should we do this? I asked her,
I said, can you please get this bag? I would
like to put these other presents for the girls in
this bag. But we already went out of our way
to get a present for them. It doesn't mean the
girls don't care they're wrapped or in presence. It's just

(12:17):
about that I asked you for I understand that, but
it was just and I get that, and I apologize
that I didn't because you did ask me for what
you wanted. But in my I and I didn't do it,
and I should have just done it. But in my head,
I'm like, we went out of our way to get
them presents for the girls. I have the other stuff
wrapped really pretty, so you know who cares if the

(12:39):
little um Barbie doll play sets for the two girls
aren't wrapped. They're just gonna be happy that they got something.
But then he was just you know again, He's like,
but I asked for who? Did you not do it
because you didn't feel like it or you were tired
or you didn't have time. No, I just I really
just didn't think that it was important, which again I
wasn't asked her opinion. I asked her for something, please

(13:00):
get this while you're sure you didn't and so, but
I appreciate your apologizing today because when we went over it,
she didn't apologize, you know, because if you would have
asked him, I'm just I'm just in the middle because
I'm the same like if ty Sarah, would you be
that mad or no, yes she would. I would be

(13:22):
mad because I asked for what I wanted and I didn't.
Because there's times when he's like, let me great, I'm like, no,
I don't need you to carry this for like I
got it. If I'll ask you if I need something,
like are you mad that you asked her to do
something and she didn't, or are you mad that she
that it didn't look nice? And it wasn't pretty and wrapped.
It came down to I was mad that I just

(13:43):
I asked her straight out what I wanted and needed,
and then she used her own opinion about it and
decided against it. And I was like, I didn't ask
for your opinion. I should asked you did you get
this a two dollar bag? So I'm psycho because I
think I would be mad that it didn't look pretty
and nice and perfect? But who cares? May we have
to bring the president the presence? It was neally them
it was a nice strettre that we've brought the present

(14:04):
that we thought that nobody else would bring a presence
for the toddlers. We were bringing presents for the base
already went above and beyond. So I'm like, why get
the stupid bag with the fluff? We don't care. It's
a great transition into our guest and we have Can
you help us because we clearly need a little issue.

(14:25):
We have a little issue here, and you have our listeners.
Kind of your background real quick so they can understand
how awesome you are. Yeah, I'm Dr Hillary Gulture, and
I have a private practice in Beverly Hills. I'm a
licensed clinical psychologist, and I work a lot with couples,
and I work a lot with couples in the public eye.
And I work on other stuff too, trauma and anxiety, depression,

(14:49):
eating disorders, parenting stuff, all sorts of things. So I
have a practice in Beverly Hills, and I do a
lot of media stuff, sort of local media and the
news CNN Fox on commenting on various psychological issues from
a therapist perspective? How could I have done better? Should
I have just gotten the bag? Even though I didn't

(15:13):
agree with the extra a few bucks that we should
have spent because we already want above and like because
because he asked for it, should I have just done it?
You know, I think we have to step back for
a moment because I think it's more of a good
will issue. That's kind of what's coming up for me
because its like from the outsider, it's kind of such
a small thing. But if there were enough goodwill between
you two, and like, this is my first time with you,

(15:36):
I know a little bit about your history from listening
to a couple of the last podcasts, So that's a
limited but still um that if they were a little
more good will, this would come easier for you to
you know what I mean, Like he would have said, yeah,
I'd prefer them this way, and you would have been like, okay,
because like there's enough emotional like money in the bank

(15:56):
that it doesn't trigger you, you know what I mean,
And there's enough good will where you're like, it's not
iportant to me, it's important to him, So like, I'm
not going to choose this time to stay on the
ground to be like, and it seems like there's enough
tension between you guys and the last period of your
life that there's not an immediate good will that you
lean into. We're depositing on the bank more. But that's

(16:19):
a great point, right, That's what's It sounds like you
guys are on the upswing. But but I mean, like
you know, so your question, I mean sure, probably probably
maybe you should have done that since he's specifically say, hey,
this might seem small to you, Well maybe you didn't
say it like, which might be a good way to
say it, but like, hey, this might seem small to me,
but small to you, but it's important to me. Can

(16:40):
we just figure out way to do this kind of thing?
You're also like a hundred months pregnant, like in your defense,
I don't know, maybe you just I'm just saying like
sometimes it's just like yes, yeah, I don't know, I think.
And that's where the good will piece comes in, you
know what I mean, because it can go either way.
Like if there were enough good will between you two

(17:01):
and she had been like no, you might have been
like you know what, okay, And it's not like it was.
It's not like they it's a birthday present for them.
It was it just an extended awesome offer any or
a nice gesture that we did. Anyways, on top of
it that, why did it have to have bells and
whistles on it? We already went above and beyond. We're
also bringing food over there to cook for them. We're
also doing a B and C like why do I

(17:22):
have to get a stupid bag with stuff on? Its
just stupid. But again, you ask for what you want
and if it was something that I wanted, and I
would have been bummed too. If I asked for twelve
lemons and you only bring me six lemons, I'm going
to be upset. Same. Well. I feel like for this
period of time for you guys, as you're in the
rebuilding process, like when one of you takes the risk

(17:45):
to ask for what you want, whether it's like about
you know, the bag and how it's dressed, or whether
it's like in the bedroom or something. When someone does
that that it's really important for this period of time
to be hyper sensitive to that. Like like ding, he
did that, I need take a minute and like step
outside of myself and make sure I attempt at least
to like adhere to his request because he did that,

(18:06):
you know what I mean. And that it's some other
point down the line, six months, a year or whatever,
there'll be more good will between you guys where it's like,
you know, we haven't we have some room to play here,
Like I'm gonna fight back today because I'm a hundred
months pregnant. I just feel like doing it. And you're like,
you know what, she's a hundred months pregnant. She's crabbing, don't.
You Just don't have like a lot of like Rubbert
band between you two right now. And that's true too.

(18:29):
It just because I get upset when I'm like, I've
asked you for what you need and you didn't. So
it's like once we kind of build those up a
little bit more than it won't be like you, she
was saying, then we're gonna have some good wiggle room.
That's right. It won't be like this forever where you
can never have a day where you're like, I just
can't be the hero in this moment. I just can't
step up, even if it's a small request and where
you're like, okay, she's just moody and right, but it's fine.

(18:51):
I can let it go. Which is funny because we
have we've acknowledged that we're starting to get better at that, yeah,
where we really are where we're just kind of like
we're not digging it. If someone's we can feel attention
or you know, there's something was said, we don't dig
at each other as much or just kind of let
it be. It's like, all right, well, will revisit this later.
So Chin gears really fast. Sarah, I really want you
to get your opinion her. What's going on with you?

(19:14):
I just had a question because I feel like this
is a big issue. Like, you know, we're always you're
always hearing about people dating people that their parents or
their friends or their families don't improve of I'm not
in that situation. Just saying, um, but I'm just wondering because,
like for Mike and Janet, you know, she went through something.
I'm sure she told her family what went down. You know,

(19:37):
my friend, your friend, you got people involved emotionally, however,
you know whatever, How what is the process when she
gets when when she makes the decision she and Mike,
you know, what is the process of her now saying okay,
everyone everything I said, I still feel or I don't
feel or do you know what I mean? Like, how

(19:59):
how are people supposed to go from basically hating Mike
to not hating extreme from so you're so this person
has said a bunch of this bad stuff about the
person that she's either with, and then now is like,
never mind, he's working at himself. So y'all need to
like him. Is basically the gist of this situation. Yeah,
and that scenario what I guess. I just wanted to

(20:22):
understand and your just a clear because I don't Jane,
is your situation I don't, which is kind of in
the middle of something. So but you're one of the
outsiders who now you're supposed to change your opinion of
this person, not even change. I just want to understand
they want this, they want her. I want to un
back on board. I just like to understand the flip
switch and whether I mean I even have talked to Janna,

(20:45):
I've heard her, you know, just in general, Like I'm
just curious, what are we supposed to you know, when
you know so much, how do you unknow it? Yeah,
I mean I don't think there's such a thing as
a flip switch. That would be like an unre reasonable expectation,
because the person asking you for that courtesy didn't have

(21:06):
a flip switch either. They went through a whole process,
whatever the process was. I went through therapy, they consulted friends,
they consulted family, they saw a pastor, right, I mean,
they didn't flip a switch. They over a period of time,
made a decision. And so I can't imagine that someone
could also flip a switch, or could flip a switch
in any scenario really, so to me, I mean, it

(21:26):
depends which side you're looking on. If it's Janna telling
her friends. So I've made a decision and continue my
life with Mike, you know, to acknowledge, like I know
this might be hard, Like you were on this road
with me and it looked like it was going to
go a different direction. There are a lot of feelings,
a lot of things happen, and some of them were amazing,
some of them were awful, And it might be really
hard to turn the emotional car around and come on

(21:49):
this journey with me. But I'm asking you too, and
I acknowledge that it might be at your own pace.
It might not be right along with me, and I'm
okay with that kind of thing. I guess it's just like,
what's the borderline between supporting and then because I think
this is this is a got it? Yes, well there is.
I mean, if there's something abusive going on, either mentally,

(22:11):
verbally or physically, that's that's a different scenario. Like all
bets are off. So if the person has done that,
then it's going to be hard for the other people
to be on board with that relationship when you know
A B and C. I just wonder how you know,
it's so hard, especially in this time, like you know,
everything is so sensitive and everything so political, and it's
just like how do you be supportive and how you

(22:33):
know without hurting feelings or without saying too much or
not saying enough. And you know, even I didn't know
Janna at the time that she went through everything they
were going through. I mean, I met her a year
and a half ago, but even then, it's like, I
feel like all you can really do is just kind
of stand by and listen, But like, how much is
it up? I think you can say out loud to

(22:54):
the people that you're you're dealing with that like, I
need to see a history of positive health, the non
toxic behavior for me to be on board just look forward.
And that's not where I am right now. I'm going
to follow your lead in terms of understanding that you're
moving forward with this person, and I'll stand by in
support of you, but I need to see a history
for me as an individual to be on board. And

(23:17):
I was, and I was kind of telling him, or
was when I was talking to say about this. I
was saying, you know, with Michael, not everybody was on
board the day I said I'm staying with Michael. It
took months years, because there's never one day that you
said I'm staying with mine, right, But it's it's a
it's a PRIs. So I'm like, see see the process
and if if if he looks like he's changing and

(23:38):
continuing to grow then that's your Okay, he is trying,
he is becoming the man that he says he's going
to be in this relationship. So but for that person
to be you know, it's this or either support or
not support. Is that it's a little aggressive with the situation.
I think that, and I think everyone is different to
Everyone has their ways of dealing with whatever they are

(24:01):
dealing with. I just think that I've seen that in
a lot of friends and family and people I know
were there with people that maybe the others don't. It's
hard when you care about someone too that you don't
maybe approved. How long how long has it been since
things are trying to turn to the other direction? Like
how long have you been expected now to get on board?

(24:23):
Not long? Yeah, But because she just heard a lot
of bad stuff, I just like, wait why. I just
feel like like even I keep bringing back to Jane
because that's really the only like others, I just feel
like when't when it's a whole lot going around and
there's a lot of people involved, which I'm sure there
was a ton of people involved with you. I just

(24:44):
don't know, like when is too much? Like do I
step in? Do I step back? Do I watch do
I say, you know, I just don't know, and I
think a lot of people don't know when do I
fully voice my I mean, I'll say this for for
my friends. I know. There was a couple times where
I'm like, that's it, I'm done, I'm leaving, and then
I then I, you know, we worked on it. And

(25:07):
then there was another incidence that happened where I called them,
told them, and then I knew that I had to
leave because I've now just told so much that I
would be crazy not to leave, and they would I
know what they would say. And but then when I
said I was still staying. You know, I know, I
know what my girlfriend thought. But they at the end

(25:29):
of the day, they still love me, and they're like,
I mean, we disagree with you, but we love you
and we'll support you. Because that's what I think. It's hard.
You don't want to make that like you if we
were friends in that time, I would not want to
make you feel Okay, I just told her this, so
now I can't tell her this, but now I want
to tell I would never want to make someone feel
like they can't tell me, or they said too much,

(25:49):
or now they're afraid to tell yeah, exactly, and then
because now Michael's best version he's ever been, so now
they're seeing the best version of him. So if I
didn't stay and give in that chance, this version, no
one would have. I think one of the things to
keep in mind is not to alienate the loved one,
you know what I mean, the person that you're concerned about,
and to your point, Jenna, being able to say, like,

(26:12):
I love you no matter what, here are my thoughts.
I'm worried about this, feel happy about that, but I'm
standing on the sidelines here to support you. So that
if this person needs to come to you at any time,
whether it's to tell you the great news that everything
is wonderful, or whether to tell you like I need
out and I need help, you haven't like shut that
door with judgment, but you haven't smoke screened it either
by not being authentic and saying like, I'm worried about

(26:35):
this and I have to say it out loud, but
I'm in your corner no matter what I think. Yeah,
I think that's great too, and that that's kind of
what Jane's family did in our situation where her mother
came to me. It was basically like, look, if Janna
loves you, we're going to love you. If she doesn't,
we're not going to. Like simple is that her entire family,
there's such a close family. They feed off of Jana's feelings,

(26:57):
her emotions, her presence, and that really dictated like how
their interaction with me was over the last two and
a half years. So for you to like exactly what
Hillary just said, still be there in support and just
read off of whoever your friend or whoever it is,
just be like, I'm going off of you, but here
are my feelings. I think Hillary hit it on the
head because that's what chance family did. And I also

(27:19):
think too for the person that you know you're dealing
with and the kind of me too, we want and
need sympathy in those moments. But I think sometimes too
much said is also bad because we're putting ourselves in
a situation like you would be like why did you
involve them? Why did you tell them that? And I'm like, back,
I actually probably didn't need to do that, and now

(27:41):
I've just kind of stirred it more and made it worse.
But you can and you can admit that, so that, yeah,
I think I think in that moment, I just I
wanted people, just want to have them like be on
your side and want people rallied around you because it
could be, you don't know, it could be the hardest
time of your life, so you want to make sure
you've got people on your bench. Yeah, that's you know,
that's actually a good, nice analogy. There's a good question

(28:01):
for for Hillary because Hilary, you deal with you said,
a lot of celebrities, maybe the limelight, maybe more of
their businesses out there. Do you have a different approach
when you're dealing someone that is of celebrity or known
rather than maybe a more you know, private couple dealing
with these issues? But I think the macro answer is
not really even know, because when it gets down to it,
folks in the public eye or celebrities are the same

(28:24):
right as as any any other person. But I mean
they do bring to the table different issues like what
is it like to have your husband and yours business
you know every republic eye that is that is an
issue that most people wouldn't have to deal with, So
in cases like your scenario, that's a whole other added pressure.
So yeah, I mean dealing with that and working through
that it is certainly something I take on, but kind

(28:45):
of like when it gets down to like the guts
of a couple, it's so similar, so similar stars, they're
just like us, right alright, guys, So with our new
baby on the way, we are really trying to stay
in bed as much as we can. And it's a
lot easier to do on our Brooklyn and Sheets, that's
for sure. And just to let you know, Brooklyn and
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Another thing that we're loving. And it's so great because
I really am trying to have great household products around
our house because just with you know, I feel like
we've had so many guests on here they say it's
not just about what you put in your body, it's
about the products that you have around your house and
that you're exposed to. Yeah, that we're exposed to. So
you know, I started to really go through and I
was like, man, I don't know if the surface cleaner

(30:29):
is good. But we've always loved Myers products. Um, we
love Bird's Bees, so anything from Beganic. So let me
tell you about Growth Collaborative. So it is the perfect
place to get all of your household products for a
clean and healthy home. So, like Mike just said, there's
brick Baby Panics, there's Myers cleaning supplies, sunscreen, lotions. They

(30:50):
make sure that all of their products are free from
animal testing. And the great thing too, is is it's cheaper.
So when I shop with Grove dot Co, I get
auto schedule shipments right to my door and I can
even text a real person to get product recommendations. And
it's just really great again because their natural, chemical free
products for our house and the baby on the way,
and honestly, it's just it's nice to not have to

(31:12):
go to the grocery store. It is, and Janna is
a big advocate for ordering things and having them come
to our door, and so the fact that these are
all things that we have used on a daily basis
even before we found out about this has been fantastic. Yeah.
So for a limited time, our listeners who signed up
get an amazing free thirty day supply of Seedling Groves
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(31:34):
sixty day v I P membership, and a surprise bonus
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If you place an order of twenty dollars or more, so,
check out Grove and our special offer at Grove dot
Co slash Janna. That's Grove dot Co slash Janna Hey, Mark,
we read an email for Hillary. Well, yeah, I mean

(31:55):
this is someone wrote this to Joanna, and I think
Hillary could probably really help out this person, whose name
is joe Anna. She says, I feel so lost right now.
My name is Joanna. I'm almost twenty four years old.
My boyfriend of four years broke up with me, and
there's just so much history there. I'm really having a
difficult time being without him. I feel like I lost
a part of myself. Is there any way to have
a podcast about how to get over a heartbreak? He's

(32:15):
my first love, my first boyfriend. I need your advice.
You're so wonderful, Janna, and your podcasts are inspiring, and
I think this would really help me. Thank you so much.
I'm sorry your heart it's breaking. That's heartbreak, show Anna's
I was just thinking about breakups the other day and
thinking about how the really in the realm of grief.

(32:36):
You know, this really is a grief for her. I mean,
it's not just a breakup, especially when you're with someone
for that long. It's like losing a family member. It's
it's it's devastating. So the idea expectation that she would
be sort of okay, anytime really soon is too lofty
at this point, Like it really is having to grieve

(32:57):
that loss and grieve the change in friends and the
change of what your daily life feels like and the
change of what you imagine your future would be like.
So it's a lot of grief and loss and sadness.
So I think you have to allow some room for
that and do a lot of self care around that,
whatever that might mean for her, what you would do
for yourself if you weren't feeling well, you know, physically
you try to do for yourself when you're not feeling

(33:18):
well mentally, whether it's like trying to exercise or get
more asleep, or be with friends or loved family or
exercise more that sort of thing, But giving her the
space to really grieve, and also trying to start to
put together almost like a mental vision board of what
her life is going to be like moving forward without
this person, Like what are the pieces of her life

(33:39):
that she wants to expand and grow that maybe she
didn't in the relationship just because of sheer time or
whatever were the issues in that relationship, you know, So
starting to have a seed, like a kernel of hope
start to grow. So she can create like a new
picture of of what she's working towards. I like that
a lot. And I also think, obviously, when you're in

(34:00):
the middle of it, it's the worst. Breakups are just awful.
But at the same time, though, I'm thinking about all
my breakups, and I remember, I have a diary too
that I've I've keptain. Sometimes I go back and I
usually I go back and I just it's like, you know,
I'm reading how devastated I was from this, you know,
from these breakups. But then I look, you know, a

(34:20):
year later, and I'm a different person. I'm happier, I'm
with someone new, and you know, it's like the doors.
It's it's crazy what happens when door shut and the
windows and they're so cliche, but I totally I you
become so much stronger and you grow so much, like
I look at my sixteen year old self, but like

(34:42):
it's great, Like I literally it's funny. I always go
back to that and I'm like, no, I something changed,
you know what I mean, Like you just become a
different become stronger than you thought. Because the days, you know,
you feel like it's the end of the world, and
you don't want to like see the world or oh
my god, I watched Sex in the City for two
weeks straight. I'll never forget my first breakup. I was eighteen,
the world was ending. My dad was like, get out

(35:03):
of it. But it's you know, in the emotion at
that that age, it's like so young. We all have
a high school sweetheart for sure, but even just in
our twenties, you know, my twenties, I was like, I'm
never going to find anyone, and then you know, we
break up and it's just awful, and but you always,
you just learn and you grow so much more about yourself.
And I would just embrace that time and embrace the
growth that you're going to have for yourself and and

(35:26):
you know who you're it's exciting to be like, okay,
like then who is my person? Well, And one thing
I always think about is that is that feeling states
never stay the same. Like pick the worst feeling you've
ever had in your life, and you imagine it would
never go away. It always shifts and changes, always always
it's good. No one has ever been able to give
me an example where that's not true. It doesn't mean

(35:47):
like grief might not carry with you or sadness or
herd or whatever it is, but they never stay exactly
the same. So sort of knowing that and believing that
well sort of give some hope for the future. And
to your point, you and I totally agree. There's an
not a breakup in my own personal history that I
can't think of that I didn't learn something significant, whether
it was like a year later or five years later

(36:09):
or three months later. I'm Mary now I have two kids,
but all of that history and heartbreak that I also
I hadn't had those moments, like I wouldn't trade one
of them. And Joanna if a lot of that too,
is you know, relating to other people's stories, if maybe
she has friends that have gone through bad breakups. But
if this helps this situation, if Janna and I can

(36:31):
go through the pain that we have both felt from
our situation, which I mean during the midst of it,
did you ever think is gonna go away? Never? Never,
neither ever ever and so and it's still there from
time to time, right, which lessons over time exactly a
Hillary's point, like the grief and stuff like that didn't

(36:52):
just go away. You learn something from it, You become
stronger from it, but that it being in the midst
of that, it lessons not in that anymore. If we
can go through that, Yeah, I think Joanna can go
through that grief, go through that pain, and come out
on the other side. I know right now it feels
like it won't ever end. The killer he said, I
mean your your lobster's out there. Don't worry. Um. Okay,

(37:16):
So today's show is sponsored by talk Space again, the
online therapy company that lets you message a license therapist
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sorry not to interrupt you, but how many times I
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(38:42):
com slash Janna and use the code Jana to get
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support for this show. That's Joanna and talk space dot
com backslash Janna. So I guess I have to say
something really fast. Um, Mike kind of gets jealous when
my fab fit fun boxes come to the door and

(39:06):
you do and he's like, well, I want to box
so I'll never forget the day that our producer Amy
text me and says, um, can you pick out a
man Create for Michael? And I'm like, oh, a man Create.
I've been dying to spot what is this? So I
go on man Creates and I start looking at all

(39:27):
these different crates and there are so many different ones,
like any by the way, you guys again, Michael has
been dying to do this spot because it's truly so
authentic to his needs. So anyways, so I'm going through
and I'm like, Okay, there's a crate for whiskey. There's
a crate for um cooking. There's like a make your
own knife, There's all like I mean, right now, just

(39:51):
ready for Janet open the gates so I can just
start talking about it, I know. But I'm like there's
all these different things, and I'm like, you know what, Amy,
this is kind of overwhelming, because you know, Might likes
to cook, he likes whiskey, he likes knives, he likes
these things. But then I saw this one crate and
I was like, you know what, He's probably gonna pick
this crate. But I'm just gonna let him like choose

(40:12):
whatever one he wants and guests which one he chose. Michael,
go for it. You're out of the stable, baby. So yeah,
Janna was overwhelmed, and so going through it, I went through.
There were I think a hundred and fifteen man crates
total on the site. When I look, there's probably even
more now, actually there are even more. So there's over
a hundred different types of man creates. Trust me. I

(40:35):
look through all of them and the one that I
found to get gemroll please for which one didn't Mike
get Zombie Annihilation, you kid, baby, it came, That's right.
They came with an eleven inch machete, a tomahawk, a
six inch knife, uh, guerrilla glue duct tape for Zombie

(40:58):
apocalyt Survival Guide. The same author of Ward war Zy.
He knows what he's talking about. So I am prepped
and ready. I was like, why do you? And I
knew it the second I saw Zombie Anihilation. I was like,
I bet you he's going to pick that one, and
that's the one you picked up. With a smile on
my face, I texted Janna back, I said, I want
the zombie Annihilation. He made great. Now. It's just stuff

(41:20):
that I would never buy myself, you know, stuff that's
fun to have as a man. And so especially for
this holiday season, there are so many options for your father,
for your father, my brother, we got a brother of
a whiskey kit. Yeah, I mean there's so many options
for that. For that mail in your life that you
don't know what to get, I'm telling you you will
find something. There's you can create. You can create your

(41:41):
own knife on there. You can open the grate, you
can create your own knife. You're so excited. I'm so excited.
I mean you can I mean anything, exotic meats where
they have ostrich alligator, all that kind of jerky grilling,
different types of grilling. I will say, it's really okay, Michael, Okay,
come down. I will say, it's really hard to shop
for for the men in your life, I mean, such

(42:03):
like my dad and brother. I'm like, I don't know
what to get you, but I mean, this truly is
the place to go. Um Man create. Go ahead, Michael,
why don't you, yes, please let me finish. And every
most gifts ship in a sealed wouldn't create with a crowbar.
And so you have to the men. It was a
gift to me, so I had a pride open with
this crew bar. It is legit. I didn't feel like

(42:25):
me and that took me a little while, but that
was part of the fun. This part of the novelty
and is it's such a great time and I really
enjoyed it. Um just remember with Man Creates, you're giving
more than a gift. You're giving a gift experience that
you will all remember and I definitely remember my first
Man Create. Every man Create comes with a percent satisfaction
guarantee and I can vouch for that because I also
have the whiskey Man Create as well. So there two

(42:46):
for two for me. I'm on my way to over
a hunt. Okay, Michael, get to listeners. Listeners to this show,
buy one gift and you will get the second gift
for twenty five off when you go to Man Creates
dot Com slash Wine. W h I n e. This
offers only for the holidays. Again, by one gift and
get the second off at man Creates dot Com slash Wine.

(43:10):
Man Creates dot Com slash Wine again. W H I
n E? Go get one. Can we talk about anxiety
for a second, So I have really really really bad anxiety.
I had PTSD when I from an incident when I
was twenty one. UM and so Michael and I got
into an argument last night on the car ride home

(43:32):
from our friend's house because we were talking about I
brought up something to our friends and I said, I'm
starting to have anxiety. And I brought the sun with
my therapist too, because and she wanted me to share
it with Michael that I'm having anxiety about the C
section that I that you know we're going to have.
And I had a really tough c section with Jolie.

(43:54):
I freak out, Who do you want to explain? Since
you feel like we said to me last night basically
that was bad. But basically Janna gets it. Starts to
get anxiety about the birth and being in the hospital
and the pain, and then so for with when we
had Jolie, she was like, I need like the epidural,

(44:15):
need the epidural, like kind of like screaming at the doctors.
Not screaming, but you're you know, you're anxious, you're wrapped up.
You're like, hey, I need epidural. You get the epidural.
Then you start freaking out because you can't feel anything,
so I don't like to feel like. It was the
weirdest feeling in the world to me, not to be
able to feel my legs and from you know, waist down.
I was like, I don't like I don't like this feeling.
I only this feel like like my heart starting to race.

(44:37):
And I was like, I don't want it anymore. I
don't want it anymore. And he's like, well, you just
asked for it, and I'm like, okay, but I like,
like h then his energy gives me more anxiety. And
with the problem with this conversation, I'll just say this
is he goes, how can I be helpful with your anxiety?
And and and this is last night and you got
he was so it's all in your head. And eventually, again,

(45:00):
just like it was in the hospital with Jolie, I
don't automatically go there. It's you. You don't understand. You
get like you cannot be rationed with when I like
that feeling. Though, No I'm not saying you do. I'm
not saying you purposely do it. I'm just saying when
you are in that super anxious space, yeah, you're getting
hot right now coming home, you cannot be rationed with so,
but I need you to stay calm and then maybe

(45:21):
I can write and that is my job. But he
doesn't stay calm, and he's like, well, you have to
prepare yourself. I go, I am preparing myself for the uncomfortable.
I know it's gonna stuck, but I'm still like, I'm
still gonna have anxiety. It doesn't just go away. He's like, well,
I don't know, because it's just all in your head.
And I'm like, yeah, I hate that. I hate having
to like already freaked out about anxiety and and probably

(45:41):
something someone yelling on top of the mind. I was like,
and you didn't even I go, and you know what,
you just made it. Now I don't even want to
talk to you about my anxiety because now you just
made it worse. And now you're yelling at me because
what if I can't give you what you want? And
it's like, you know what, never mind, I'm I'm not
just fine. I'm not gonna tell you I feel about it.
And now I don't feel it supported and I'm going
to have an anxiety attack and I've worked through it
for myself because and you're gonna get hightened but you

(46:03):
think he basically thinks I'm crazy. He's like because he
doesn't know what an anxiety attack feels like. And those
people make me feel crazy. You do that to Tie. No,
I'm like the Mike, but I am the calm one.
So like Tie has really bad anxiety and when he
gets that anxiety, he looks to me to be his rock,
and I'm his rock. But then after six years, I'm like, Okay,

(46:25):
let's we know how to do this. Let's breathe, you
know what I mean. I'm like, every time I can't
be there to hold your hand if you have an
anxiety attack and I'm there, it's a you know what
I mean. So I'm in the middle because I stay calm,
but then like I want to go into the bathroom
and cry, and then I want to come out and
be like, I'm calm, I'm cool, you know what I mean,
Because I don't want to freak out in front of
him because I am his rock. And so I kind
of I'm like in the middle because sometimes I want

(46:47):
to scream at him. Sure, but I know he thinks.
I don't want him to think that I think he's crazy. Yeah,
And then I think and he makes me feel crazy
because I do say and I already feel crazy for
feeling my anxiety. Yeah, I'm so happy. How to talk
about We're all just like like and I was, so
I was, I mean, I called you an a hole

(47:07):
last night, and so then a long time since I've
called you a word. It has been a long time. Yeah,
I'm sorry for calling you that, but you you that
was rude. You asked me before I needed. I told
you what I needed, and then you're then you got
heightened and then you just made my anxiety. Can I
just explain just so Hillary, because this was literally, this
is literally last night. I'm sorry, Hillary, Yeah, this is
very fresh. So I just want to say again, last

(47:30):
night was an example of I was calm at the beginning.
That's why I said, what can't I do to help
with your anxiety? And we start talking about it, and
then you got on topic of if you need something,
to go ask the doctors for you, and I said, yes,
I understand it, and I will go ask the doctors
if you need something, and her Dino said, if you
need something, I'll give you this or whatever. His tone
was not that initially I was, I was like, I

(47:53):
was like yes, I can go ask him, but let
me just prepare you where you might not get the
outcome you want. You might not be asking for something.
They're like, hey, medically, we can't give you this. And
then I would say okay, and then you're like, but
that's not what you do and that's okay, but but
I have then if the doctor says no, that's no,
there's nothing I can do, see you at least saying hey,

(48:13):
you know what. I went and I asked and they
said you can't have this right now. So I then
I need you to stay calm with me. And he
keeps going, but but butt, and then this is building
my anxiety. Now I'm now I'm getting worried. Okay, she's
gonna go to labor and I'm freaking out. Yeah, let's
get let's get to this quickly. I'm actually having a contraction.
Oh my god, I'm coming all right. Um, So this

(48:35):
is a good moment to kind of do a little
psycho education for Michael for your listeners, because anxiety is
a real thing, like a real physical condition, and we
treat it the same way we would think about treating
like bronchitis or pneumonia or any other physical condition it is.
It is not just in the head. I mean, obviously

(48:56):
it has roots in the mind, but it becomes a
physical condition and it becomes out of the person's control.
So it's it's not something that Jane can choose. It
doesn't mean that you're like void of all responsibility and
you don't do the best you can to be graceful
and kind and respectful during those moments. But I think

(49:16):
for you, Michael, being able to conceptualize it like that,
that it's not something that she can just choose not
to have might be a good place to start. I
think when you guys have that kind of conversation, you
the information that you're coming back at her with is
not relevant for that conversation because you guys haven't created
a foundation about how you're going to deal with this. Right, So,

(49:40):
even though it might be a reality that you guys
come up with a plan and you implement it in
Janet freaks out and doesn't do anything that she says
she's gonna do and does everything you say that she's
going to do, right, that sort of is for the
next conversation, But like the first conversation to create a
safety zone. So for her to feel like, Okay, at
least my anxiety can start feeling can tamed or at

(50:00):
least attended to or validated, has to happen first, and
that didn't get to happen. And once that happens, then
you can have the next conversation, which is like, okay,
so if we have this safety plan and you go
outside of it or start coming at me or start, um,
you know, doing what you did last time or whatever,
what are we going to do? But the first conversation

(50:21):
kind of has to be more like, tell me all
about what you're afraid of and what I can do
for you. And your job is just go okay, okay,
okay for that first conversation, because that that anxiety. That
anxiety is I just had a baby seven months ago
and I had are you serious you look amazing? Okay?
Um but um but I had a Plan C section

(50:47):
and I had that same experience, and it is really
unnerving to feel like you're paralyzed from have your body down.
It's it's really unnerving. So I think most women feel
that way anyway. And then if you have a history
of anxiety and it's tied to an incident that created PTSD,
for you feeling trapped that that runs really deep. So
you're right your fear that it might be um uh,

(51:10):
she might be impulsive or not behave as you guys
plan is probably a reality because you have this history
and who knows how it's going to go. But being
able to feel like you're united on like the idea
of how it's going to go, and then coming up
with contingency plans after I think is is a place
to start. And Michael, I'm noticing your well, to my
you might slightly be rulling his eyes at me, And

(51:33):
I kind of wanted to thank you for bringing that
because I was gonna say, why are you calling bs
to this? Because you still think that it's something that
I that I can control? Okay, all right here and here,
let me just say this, so thank you for calling
him out because I was going to saying it's not
a choice. You can't control it. Okay, that's what being said.
What about you have no idea? What anxiety? Listen to

(51:56):
me for a second. I'm not I'm not doubting you.
I'm not. I'm just saying, for let's use the example
of addiction. Let's use addictions. Okay, people are addicted to something,
but it still comes down to a physical choice to
what decisions you make, regardless of addiction being a mental
disorder or not. Why are you getting so mean? I

(52:18):
think I have a way of maybe coming in because
I do have a question kind of like what Mike saying,
what is the line between Obviously Janna has anxiety, and
like I know that my Taie has ans but what
is there a line between anxiety and then not that
he's mental? But then okay, not only so you have anxiety,

(52:39):
and now you're getting in your own head because like
he doesn't like to fly. Okay, so we're flying, and
now all he's talking about is his anxiety and that
he gets anxiety, you know what having Okay, well, let's
not talk. I know you have anxiety, so you know
what I mean, what's the medium between? Okay, let's accept
that you have anxiety. But now, because I'm very like
weird when it comes to those things, I'm like, okay,
let's listen to a podcast. Let's close our like I

(53:00):
try to be like, okay, let's not say the A
word and let's see what you know what I mean?
Because I'm I'm mental in my own right so I'm like,
I'm all in my mind. So sometimes I'm like, is
there a borderline to where like, okay, maybe you're making
it worse right now? Of course, I mean, it doesn't
mean that you don't get to protect yourself as the

(53:20):
partner of someone with anxiety. It doesn't mean you just
have to give yourself over to the whim of of
that person. And to your point, you know, talking about addiction.
If someone is addicted to drugs and their behavior is
completely destructive, it's not like we just stand back and go.
But they have a disease, that's okay, right, I mean,
we make decisions to draw boundaries, may even have to
separate our lives and then be out of contact with

(53:41):
them until they get healthy. I'm certainly not suggesting we
just follow the whim of someone that's struggling, whether it's
with anxiety or addiction, but I mean we do get
to protect ourselves. You can certainly suggest to him, let's
let's think about not saying how about music, how about podcast?
And if it's not resonating with him, then you can
say you love you and I'm here for you, but

(54:01):
I need a break from this energy. So I'm gonna.
I just want to try and fix it. I mean,
even if if she you know, and I'm sure Mike
feels it's hard watching someone and not because you're right,
it's not like they have a call for There's nothing
I can and I'm control freak, and so when I can't,
it's me. That's what it is. It's if if I try,
and that's the thing. I am empathetic towards Jennie fellon

(54:24):
this way, and that's what it is. I don't want
to see her like that. But it's when I try
to help, but yet she won't. I feel like she
won't take what I have to say. She has to
hear from a doctor. She has like if I'm like, hey, honey,
you're gonna be okay, well you don't know that, go
get a doctor. Like I'm like, I'm telling you you're
gonna be fine. Like why don't I'm your husband, Why
do you support what? What? What I need in that moment?

(54:46):
Listen to me at the same time, because what if
why can't you I'm like, actually really getting upset, but
why doesn't my why doesn't my voice matter in those moments? Why?
Like why will you just not support what I need,
So you need a doctor to tell you that you're okay?
Sure in that moment, maybe that's what I need. What's
feelings up setting for you? Right now? I feel claustrophobic? Yeah? Yeah,

(55:09):
like I just feel like stuck, Like I feel like
you won't like you don't you make me feel like
I'm working crazy for having anxiety. I don't want to
feel this way, Mike. I'm curiously what if it is
true that for her she sometimes does need an outside
party like a doctor or something to tell her it's
going to be okay? Like, what if that's true? What

(55:29):
does that bring up for you? It? It brings up
because it will be on something super elementary, and it's like,
I'm it makes it makes it makes me feel like
like what I have to say doesn't matter and that
it doesn't care anyway, Like what do you? And like honestly,
it's like, I'm your husband. Do you think I would

(55:50):
possibly put you in a situation that is harmful for you? No?
I wouldn't. I'm your husband. I want to see you okay,
and so I'm going to make sure and all that
I can control that you're okay. Yeah, it makes you
feel somehow ineffective or not relevant or something in those moments. Yeah, so,
I mean kind of from an outsider's perspective, it's not
being in the emotion of it. You can see both sides.

(56:11):
I mean, it makes sense right that for for Janna,
that it's so important to be able in those moments
where she feels completely panicked and like almost traumatized, to
be able to get what she needs, even of what
she needs is something that you don't totally understand or
doesn't resonate with you, and somehow not being able to
being able not to take it personally, you know, but
it really makes sense to me why that comes up

(56:32):
for you. You're her husband. You want to protect her
and you want her to feel your love and like
your focus on her that like I got you in
that sense that the I got you isn't enough makes
you feel but this impotent or something. This is like
your main anxiety right now, right, you know what I mean?
Like Usually it's not like I mean, like I'll have
anxiety text I can work through anything. He's there for

(56:52):
you know what I mean. Like, there are times when
like I'll it's I just want to know that they
can land the plane, no, you know what I mean, Like,
just like if it's one big thing, just it take
one thing for him to do and then it's like, Okay,
we're good. Yeah, it's because it's not every time just
him either asking or but but saying no to to
my fear or to my my my safety net of

(57:13):
at least asking, he's just saying no to it right
off the bat, and that gives me more Well, exactly
when you're like you're fine, I'm your husband, like, you're
you're not going to die, and I'm like, but can
you just I'm asking you to feel safe, and I'm
asking you to do something to make me feel safe.
Can can I ask a question? This is a question.
What about you hearing from me, your husband? What about

(57:35):
you hearing from me, Hey we're not the plane is
not gonna crash, We're gonna be okay, Hey we're not
going to get sick. Hey there's not gonna be an earthquake.
Why like, what about hearing something from me isn't enough
for you? I'm not saying it's not enough, but but
what is it? Why? Why don't you take what I say?
Like I'm just curious for my anxiety Sometimes I just
need to know that I don't know how to how
to explain it. I think I think what's hard to

(57:58):
accept from my standpoint is that the anxiety is is
bigger than you in those moments, that it really isn't
about you, That it's not about your effectiveness as a husband,
it's not about her love for you or her trust
in you. That it really is about something that's overtaken
her and she needs a set of things to help
contain her, and one of them is you, and one

(58:18):
of them is you being her advocates. And yeah, and
if it can't happen, then I need you just to
be calm and reassuring and again knowing not making me
feel crazy on top of it, because that's the worst part.
And because people that don't have anxiety don't understand that
they feel like they're going to die and their heart's
going to explode and they're going to pass out. And
I mean there's so many times I've had I get
so heightened that I'll that I'll pass out because I

(58:39):
get so But I mean I've been able to like
work through it and you know, do all the things
I've learned from therapy and the counting and going outside
are all like so many different things, but sometimes I
can't control it and I just need that. I need
you not to get upset and make it ten times worse,
because then I don't feel supportive. Then I feel more heightened.
And that's how I felt in the car last night,
and then I felt trapped in the car. I literally

(59:01):
wanted to get out of the car on the expressway
because I felt so trapped that you just weren't being
supportive at all. And then I'm like, I don't even
now I'm terrified of the C section. I'm terrified of it.
Now I'm terrified of being a baby, or being crazy
or and that just makes my anxiety a million times worse.
So I would say that, since we're like on a timeline,

(59:22):
they be becoming like any moment. I maybe normally wouldn't
say this because I just met you, Mike, but I'm
just going for the interventional. No, I would say this.
I would say for you in this moment, since it's
so big, your baby's coming and you have this when
I know the experience I had with Jolie and how
I did freak out, so I don't want that to
happen again, but it's it is a trauma kind of

(59:44):
that's in my head that happened. I would say, like
for you, and I say this to a couples all
the time, to different parties of the couple depending on
the situation, Like you kind of have to be the
hero in this moment, you know, in the hospital with
her and sort of setting aside the part that's your
I don't want to call it agenda, but that's about you,
you know, that sense of like, wait, she's rejecting me

(01:00:05):
or somehow I'm not being useful to her, because that's
not what it's about at all. It doesn't sound like Janet.
It just sounds like there's a specific set of things
that you need to feel contained and being able to say, like,
you know what, I'm just going to give this to her.
You know, I'm just going to give this her and
it's not going to be about me in this moment,
and I'm going to kind of lean into the belief
that like this woman loves me, like she chose me.

(01:00:25):
She's here after all you guys have been through, Like
she's like here in the biggest way, she's having your
baby boy, right, you know, And just being able to
show up for her in that moment and I and
that kind of stuff is much easier when there's that
goodwill and a lot of emotional money in the bank.
You know, it's like, all right, I got this. I
could put my like like a personal agenda aside. And
you guys are like, you know, a little wildly in

(01:00:47):
that front, but like it would be a good time
to practice, because it would be so lovely if this
could be a different experience in that regard. Yeah, I
just think it's hard for people that don't have anxiety
to understand. And that's where I think it's frustrating to
when you know, when we were when you thought said, oh, Mike,
are you're rolling your eyes, and I'm like, he's going like,
I wasn't well, but we could tell that you were right.

(01:01:10):
But your thoughts are that anxiety is a mind thing
and it's work. Crazy is basically how you make it seem.
That's not at all. I'm asking questions. Yes, it doesn't
make sense to me because I don't suffer from anxiety
or lack of control in that realm. So I'm curious

(01:01:31):
because for like seriously, like in my logical brain, it
makes sense, Like I'm your husband. If I say it's
gonna be okay, it's probably it's not a medical question,
like you know, if it's something seriously medical, obviously i'd
ask a professional. But something is you know, when people
that suffer from anxiety, sometimes that's just not enough for us.

(01:01:51):
It's we need that extra security and safety because we
don't believe that, and then our minds just get worse.
How do you know that when it stops? Like, how
do you know? Like the doctor is enough for Do
you need something else above that? Do you need something
else about that? You need a report that says that
this happens. If I need a doctor, and that's all that,
that's what I need to tell me, just like you
know whatever, if I need all in all, First, I

(01:02:15):
want to say I'm sorry that you got worked up
in emotional. I'm sorry that I wasn't as understanding as
you needed me to be in the moment last night
and today. And I greatly appreciate Hillary being here today
because I think she put it well where for right now,
since we're like days away, I will go into it

(01:02:36):
putting my agenda of feelings aside about this, and it's
something we can pick up way after the baby's here,
just so I can better understand and better help and
that maybe possibly you can understand my mindset as well.
But for the time being, in the immediate future, I
will work very hard to remain patient. And if you

(01:03:02):
need the pizza deliver, got to tell you're gonna be okay,
I'll go freaking find him and have him you're okay?
Is it as simple as remaining calm? Because my daughter
goes through anxiety attacks and I feel like there's I
cannot do anything right. It's hard to reason. I feel
like I've tried everything, and yeah, you can't reason. So

(01:03:23):
I'm just gonna hang back. And then she's mad about that,
and then I try to really help, but she's mad
about that, and I feel like I feel so powerless
and impotent, like you said earlier, and it's a frustrating.
So what should he do and what should anybody do
in a situation where someone they love is going through
something like that? Yeah, I mean in my situation, at
least Jan is able to be sort of clearly of
what I need right about what you need. And so

(01:03:43):
that's obviously the road map you want to follow. If
you're feeling up to it um and in your case,
that's really hard. You have a young daughter who probably
can't articulate what exactly she needs because she doesn't know
and she's so young, and a lot of this conversation
really hit home. And a lot of times people cannot articulate,
even adults, what they need when they're having a panic

(01:04:04):
attack or when they're feeling overwhelmed with anxiety. And it's imperfect.
I mean, I wish I had like a really nice,
beautiful answer to give you, because those situations are so hard.
It's so painful to watch a love one, especially a
daughter of a child, and I, like Mike, I don't
suffer from that, and it's so hard to relate to that.
And then there's the situation where how much can they
control it? Because she doesn't do this at school, do

(01:04:26):
this in public? And she doesn't like, am I triggering? Like?
Because that's how I feel because like sometimes Tie, I'm like,
oh my god, is it me? Like? Am I doing
this to you? And then I want to start crying,
but then I'm calm, and then I run to the
kitchen and then I start crying. But then I turn around, huh,
and I think I'm getting an anxiety attack right out.
Like you know what I mean, because I feel the
same way. It's like, okay, am I making it better
or worse? Because as a husband, or as a girlfriend,

(01:04:48):
or as a parent, I want to make you feel
on top of the world. And if I can't do
that now, it's in my own Now now I'm piss
especially as a parent, I mean, I think, and because
you don't understand, and you guys want to be able
to help. You want to be able to help your daughter,
You want to be able to help you know your wife,
you want to be able to help your boyfriend. And
the person that's dealing with anxiety, you just got to

(01:05:10):
remain calm. And they might look crazy. I know I
look crazy. I know I do. I do know that,
But you, just the person just has to remain a steady,
calm rock. You're You'll never understand what anxiety feels like,
and it's so even hard for us to articulate it.
But just to be saying I'm here for you with
whatever you need, so just let me know what you need.

(01:05:32):
And again we don't know what we need, but just
say saying that you're there staying calm and not being like, well,
I'm trying to help you and you're doing this that
that I'm passed out because because you want to help
and you're like, I'm trying to help. But again, that
just makes it. I mean, that made me have an
anxiety attack in the car last night because it made

(01:05:53):
it ten times worse when the person gets heightened over
us and then we're like, oh we are that, we
are crazy, We're oh my god, No, it's just it
makes it worse. So just as hard it is for
you guys to not understand, just try to remain calm
and try to say I'm here for you, you know,
if you help me to breathe, or let's count together,
or or I can walk away on the colmb and

(01:06:14):
and hardcore empathy is really the best move, yes, but
it's also a challenge when one of us is going
for empathy and one of us is getting frustrated, and
then and then it switches and then and then it's
sometimes too much, too and sometimes you know, like last night,
when I was having anxiety Atteck, I had to walk outside.
I just had to feel cold on my feet, or

(01:06:35):
I'll put cold on my wrists. Like that helps me too.
Those are certain I'll give you though. Did you figure
out the cold on your feet helps you? Well? Therapist
kind of gave me some tips that kind of get
me out of my head. So sometimes it will count.
So I'll breathe in three, exhale three, or I'll sit
in a room and I'll look at things that I've

(01:06:55):
never noticed before that gets me out of anxiety. Um.
Good one, Like I'd be like, oh, I've never noticed
this piece of paper here, you know, So that's one.
Um being outside putting cold because I get really hot
when I'm anxious, and you're your heat and cold right
there on your wrists. So I'll put like a cold
bottle water or something cold on my wrists. Next really

(01:07:17):
good too. So yeah, just certain things like that help.
But and then just having somebody calm next to you
that doesn't make you feel crazy, you know. And I
think why Jan is right and and everything you just
said is is particularly for a kid, is that they
internalize that safety net that even though you might not
might not look like you're being effective, you know, over

(01:07:38):
time they internalize that you're safe and that they can
be messy, and that that you're there with them and
love them through it in our calm and like it
starts to build um, you know, a certain level of
self esteem and self worth and sense of stability over time.
Like it's like a little whisper. It doesn't just like
oh I'm better tomorrow or yeah. But and to and
to kind of go off what you're saying to Michael

(01:08:00):
and Mark. If you guys, m if if I said, hey,
I need you, I really need you to you know,
ask a doctor for this and or something, or if
I'm having anxiety attack, you don't come back with something
harsh and you're like, Okay, I'll do that, because then
that becomes then you're safe. Because right now I don't
feel safe because I don't feel like you're gonna do
I feel like you're gonna make me feel crazy or

(01:08:22):
I feel like so I feel like I have to work.
I have to work through my anxiety myself because you're
not going to be there for me to understand. It's
because like the two guys, you know what I mean, Like,
I think it's different if you're a guy dealing you know,
but I'm you right, But I'm saying, but if they
were to like be more if you think and yeah,
if it came to you, you you like, it's a girl

(01:08:42):
thing to be like, but if they did that, then
I would I would fall more in your arms. Your
daughter might fall more into having be having that safety
with you if you if you don't get upset right away,
I would then I would be like, okay, my husband did,
and then I then I can Actually I don't need
to have my other a be in CEA routes because
you're telling me and I know that you would, so

(01:09:05):
my top fifty parenting regrets or hell, I've dealt with
her anxiety over the sorry if we've tried, you know,
you just tried different angles, different and it's just it's yes, yeah,
I can't imagine how much more difficult that is from
a parent to a child because you are the parents.

(01:09:26):
So like even my rational with Jane, I'm like, i'm
your husband, like I'm not going to steer you wrong.
Even that's like tenfold compared to it. I'm your parents,
I'm your father. I'm not going to do anything to
put you in harm's way. Why can't you, you know,
wrap your head around this rationale that I'm explaining to you.
But that's that's heavy. Well, you always get to go
back to your kid and say, hey, I wish i'd

(01:09:48):
done that different. Yeah, you know, that's That's one thing
I always talk about with people. It's just say, like,
you know what, honey, like I wish I had been calmer,
I didn't show up for the way is very apologetic,
of course, but but because we feel bad, we do.
We feel bad. I'm so sorry that was so stupid,
and I feel because we feel crazy and we feel sorry,

(01:10:09):
and then I apologetic because of course it's things I
regret to. And it's just well with both Mike and
Mark that the intention is total love, you know, total
a total wish to be there and help and hold.
I mean that that is clear. It's just like the
the delivery system is different. You know, that's right, but right,

(01:10:35):
I mean that's a good thing to remember too, is
that at the core for both of you guys is
a desire to love and be there. Yeah, which I
wish I would have handled things different last night. And
I know you're still concerned now but dedicated to whatever
you need in the hospital. That this experience is a
lot better and other anxiety moving forward. Kay, Okay, Okay,

(01:10:59):
the Way the Hillary. Where can my listeners find you
at dr Hillary gulture dot com. Thank you for being here,
because it's obviously I was like, yeah, I was heavy.
I was happy than you. I really appreciate it. Okay,
So next year we're gonna be traveling a lot, what

(01:11:20):
with our house being built in Nashville and then obviously
recording the podcast here and everything else. We got going
on a lot to back and forth and a lot
of carry on luggage, which I never used to carry
on until I met Jane. She taught me how to pack. Yeah,
because he would put like he would put his He
would put his shoes in the suitcase and be like,

(01:11:41):
my bag is so full, and I'm like, that's because
you just put them right in the middle of your bag.
Like he doesn't know how to pack, but luckily he
knows how. And um, I gotta tell you away luggage
is really great because I have a really hard time
finding a place to charge my phone in in the
the airport. I'm constantly walking around trying to find an

(01:12:02):
empty plug, and especially some of those smaller airports, it's
it's a challenge. So what's great about way luggage is
that They have a t S a compliant ejectable battery
built into your carry on so you can charge your
phone with the suitcase. So it's huge with having the
kids and having their devices as well to keep everyone
charging happy. Yeah, and they have a removable washable laundry bag,

(01:12:24):
which is my favorite part many times, well we're somewhere,
we have designate like one of our bags, the one compartment.
It's like the dirty clothes and it's always your bag.
It's always wind bag. But it's just so great because
you can remove it and then you just throw it
right in the washer. It's so great. And again it's
the perfect gift for everyone on your list for any destination.
Get your loved ones the perfect size away luggage in

(01:12:47):
any color. Because the holiday season, everyone wants to get away.
So for twenty dollars off of suitcase, visit away travel
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that's twenty dollars off your first suitcase. Visit away travel
dot com slash Janna and use promo code Janna during checkout. Oh,
that was heavy off. That was tough. I got. I

(01:13:11):
can't believe I liked what I just I couldn't help
it because I had I was getting anxiety. That just
the your emotions around anxiety just it was all in
my chest and I was just like, oh, here it comes,
it's coming. It's just gonna a big time right now.
It's hard, and it's just again, it's so hard. And

(01:13:31):
I I do empathize with all three of you because
you all deal with someone that have anxiety. Now, That's
what's so crazy, is like, so if you think about it,
you're right, every single person in this room is dealing
with so like it's so out there. Everyone's dealing with
someone who Yeah, but it's just I mean, so I

(01:13:51):
do empathize with with you guys, but it's just I
will say, from the person again that has anxiety, you
don't want to feel this way. It's it's not it's
not fun. But if you guys can just please try
to remain as calm as possible, that would be hotsome.
That would just be so great. A huge thank you
to all of our sponsors today for the show. We've
got Brooklyn in. The Only way to get twenty dollars

(01:14:13):
off and free shipping is to use promo code Jana
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(01:14:34):
you to talk Space to match with a perfect therapist
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to talk space dot com slash Jenna and use code
Janna to get forty five dollars off your first month.
Go ahead. A huge thank you to man Creates. Remember
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(01:14:55):
go to man Creates dot com slash wine w h
I n E oh wait gets you for twenty dollars
office suitcase. Visit Away Travel dot com slash Janna and
use promo code Janna during checkout Amazon Fire TV. Head
to www dot Amazon dot com slash wind down again.
That's Amazon dot com slash wind down to order a
fire TV of your very own. Thanks guys, Thank you,

(01:15:20):
but hoof what a show everyone everyone opening up. Yeah, no,
thank you thanks to Mark. And yeah, I just I
think I know a lot of people are gonna be
able to relate to this one. There's gonna be a
lot of response on this one for sure. And I
would love um for you guys to email us to
how you guys deal with anxiety if you're if you're
dealing with someone who has anxiety or vice versa. We

(01:15:41):
would love to maybe circle back around on this and
especially if you have maybe kids too that are dealing
with anxiety. I know actually my my niece she's start
teen and she has had her first panic attack too. Yeah, tips, yeah,
so any tips. But Janna Kramer at I heart media
dot com and should we the what's our thing of

(01:16:03):
the week? Oh you know what challenge of the week
is just to just to be around anxiety. Just be calm,
someone's freaking out. Just everyone be somebody's rock this week
like that somebody's rock. All right, Well, honey, you're gonna
be mine because the next time you guys listened to us,
We're gonna having a baby. Best. Oh, it's so great?

(01:16:36):
Was the best commercial ever? It's Jim he had a baby.
It's a boy, who's all right? Well, Sarah, thanks for
coming on and also sharing Mark, Mike. This is a
good one and we will be talking to you guys
next from the hospital room. Wind out later four

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The Bobby Bones Show

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Between Contractions