March 22, 2021 • 57 mins
Mike opens up about feeling frustrated taking care of the kids while Jana was on set and that leads to a tense conversation as they work it out on air.
Jana clarifies why she slept alone most nights while they were up in Canada.
Plus, hear about Jana’s journey into breast augmentation and discover how to be a parent and not be totally exhausted from Theresa Palmer and Sarah Wright Olsen, otherwise known as the Zen Mamas!
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Flying down with Jane Traylor and Michael Coughlin and I've
heard radio podcast. Hey guys, we're back home in Nashville.
Has it feel to be back? Um? When we walked in,
it felt like we had been gone. It didn't feel
like home. It was a very strange feeling. It felt
(00:22):
like a long time. It felt like that's when I
felt like a long time. But I miss I missed Vancouver.
I miss our like I missed our friends there. I
don't know, I just I miss it. But I am
happy to be back though. Um. And we're in a
new studio spot. Yeah. It was the former kids playing room,
which became my you know, my dad getaway gaming room
(00:47):
because the kids outgrew. I mean, this room is it's
it's I mean it's yeah. We're on paper when we
were building this house and we're like, Okay, this will
be a nice size room, and like it's a closet,
a closet. Very grateful, We're very grateful, not being snooty,
just you know, but with a kid's player room, this
isn't what we kind of imagine. So I was like,
(01:08):
we gotta so we mixed our media room. So our
media room is now the play room. In this room,
I'm like, what are we going to do with it?
And Dad's like, well, I could get a love sack.
And I was like, all right, if you're gonna put
the kids in the media room, which is the room
that I used to use, I was like, I at
least need to get you know, love sack and another
TV in this room. She's like a cart fine, and
then after a while now she's like, Okay, there's no
(01:30):
productivity going on in this room, so we have to
do something productive. So what if we do to our
podcast up here? And I was all for it, ah,
but I was just worried because Jase's room is right
across the hall and we do usually do so you
would give every excuse to not have this move into
his man cave, but we just don't have any other
(01:52):
space to put it. And I just I hate that
we have to, you know, put it up take it
down in our bedroom again. This all is very like
Champagne problem. But at the same time, every time I
walk past this room, I get this weird like annoyance
good it's going on in there. It's like there's a
you know, and there's this big, oversized ridiculous love sack
(02:12):
in the middle of the room, and I'm just like, like like,
this has to change. So yeah, so now this is
the podcast room and sometimes I get to buy but
it's all good. No, it's actually good because I'm the
one that sets everything up and takes everything down. So
it's gonna be nice just to leave this stuff up.
Unless now, if she starts coming by the rooms, like
(02:33):
those chords and stuff everywhere, why don't you just clean
up the podcast stuff and then when we come back
in here to work you No, no no, no, no, no, no,
I'm not gonna say that. I'm not going to say that.
I think it's I think it's good. Having said that,
we need to discuss the love sack that ain't going anywhere.
Then the table needs to come down. Fine, where are
we gonna put the table? Doesn't matter. Not go tell
(02:58):
our listeners before we move on about other stuff, just
a little bit about your moving your experience that we're
going to talk about my breast augmentation that's about to
happen here. Surely I'm talking about that too. I was like,
I showed you because I didn't tell you that. I
was like announcing it on socials no, you didn't. I
found out from a third party. But the funniest thing
(03:19):
was is one of my girlfriends thought that I had
like a nip slip because I was like holding my
my boob but like, you know, I was showing that
like obviously I have saggy mom boobs. Um. But I
will say I'm excited, but I'm nervous, and because especially
everyone's commenting about the b I I stuff, which is
(03:40):
the breast implant illness, and I'm like, you know, I've
done so much research around it, but when I look
at the symptoms, I'm like, it's like depression, Okay, anxiety.
So I'm like, I think I had b I I
without even breast implants in me. All that for you.
But it is good to know about it, and you know,
(04:00):
it's good to um. You know, it's good to be informed.
And I also think people have been nice about it.
But also I just don't want I think what I think.
It's okay. I think some things just might not work
for some people. And if I end up getting a
bi I and I start feeling more depression or more
(04:21):
of this, then I'm gonna be like, Okay, I'm gonna
get them out, which but I really think, I mean,
there's so many women that are fine, so I just
have to focus on the positive. Are you ready to
take care of me? H? Yeah? I told Catherine because
we're Katherine, We're talking about it, and I was like, well,
(04:42):
I can't wait for you to not gasp when I
show you my boobs. I'll never forget. I showed her
my boobs after because look, my ariolas just never have
gone backed down from like after having kids. And she's like,
I was like, is this normal? And she goes and
I was like, well, that's not the reaction I wanted.
(05:04):
She's like, it's a salami. Just tell everybody out there.
I mean, who cares. I'm like whatever. It's kind of
like and I go back to when I was doing
the movie. This kind of goes back to the movie.
I'm like changing in the car, you know, changing in
the because I had it was eight I think it
(05:26):
was sixty, Yes, sixty costume changes in the movie, and
most costume changes in the movie is like it's sixty
and like going back and forth. Well, I didn't have
time cameras, Like, I didn't have time to go back
to my trailer and change like I was just like,
is there an empty hallway? But by then in the movie,
I'm like, you know, things are flying off and it
(05:52):
was I think it was my driver. She was just
like it's nice to I'm like, look, we all have boobs,
we all got you know, stuff, and it's like, I
don't we don't need to sexualize it. And I think
that's when all the like, that's when I started kind
of like having those conversations because I'm like, but we
don't need to sexualize it. Is I have boobs, you've
got boobs, you've got a penis. I gotta like, we
(06:12):
don't need to Yeah. Yeah, I mean you're fighting against
years and years and years of uh advertising and marketing
towards sexualizing the human body. I know. I'm just sick
of it. No, I I get it, I get it.
(06:34):
I mean unfortunately sex Cells does it anymore though, because
I feel like it's they go they're going so overboard
because it's like every single show, I'm like, where's the
seventh Heaven? Give me like wholesome seventh Heaven, Like where
they don't like have you know, just every scene I mean,
(06:56):
and don't get me wrong, like Britain was like my
soft porn. Like I loved it, but at the same time,
I'm like, okay, like does it have to be every show?
Which I was like thrilled that Queen's gam but didn't
have like a throw down, do you know what I'm saying, Like,
I just feel like it's so over the top. It
is it is. And we talked about this a while back.
(07:17):
I worry even I just like fast forward some things.
I'm just like why it's not necessary in some parts.
And my fear is that, like with the success of
Bridge Retain, there's gonna be other shows that try to
come out and be that intense. Yeah, but the movie
was good. I had a lot of fun. Um, I'm
(07:38):
kind of scared for people to see it because I
don't even know how it's going to turn out. I
had a total panic attack the day of and I
ended up reaching out to Chantel my winter Hill Coastar,
and she kind of talked me off the cliff. Where
were we having a panic attack about? Um? I was like,
(07:59):
I can't do it. M I mean, I know. Joke
was like I was crying in my trailer day one,
like full on crying and just like having a massive
panic attack. I'm like, what am I thinking? I can't
play this part. I've never like I'm just the Christmas girl,
I'm just the like fluffy. Hey, we're having a Winner
festival in my hometown. So it was. And then the
(08:22):
first scene sucked. So I don't even want to watch
that scene. I hope I hope it gets cut, to
be honest with you, because I was just so nervous.
But you know what, I'm excited for the final product
because I think it's going to instill the confidence in
you that a lot of us are around you that
support you. See. We see, we know you're able to
do that. We know you're talented enough. Two, you know,
(08:46):
really act and be a different character, you know, and
find parts of that character in yourself and utilize that
to your ability. And I think I think two is
good for you just to kind of to stretch your
wings a little bit and not get stuck in that
same routine of the Christmas festival and here's this and
here's this's just great. I love Christmas. I'm not knocking
(09:06):
that at all, And I'm great that's what you've done recently?
Yea more of um because you've never you haven't done
anything like this since I've been with you, you know,
so I'm excited for it. I'm excited for you. I
think you're gonna impress yourself with how good it turns out.
Um Eastern are you? Yes? It has. Ever since I
(09:30):
saw you in that prison jump suit, I was like,
what is going on? Is this Orange is the new Black?
What is happening? I can't wait to see this movie. Yeah,
I get arrested, I get shoved into it like it's
it's it's it's crazy. It's based on a true story.
I'm not allowed to say anything really about it yet,
but it really was fun and I I just hope
it turns out good. But if not, there's always twelve
(09:54):
days of Christmas. It will It's gonna be great. It's
gonna be a lot of fun. And how are you, babe? Like,
we're back them now? You had the kids for such
a long time. Yeah, yeah, I'm good now to have
you around and to be able to bounce things off
of you and stuff. But you know, we talked about it.
It's sometimes you know, when we used to have help
a lot, and we'd have the kids friendly like an
(10:15):
hour or two that day because we had a lot
of work stuff or whatever going on. It was almost
like it was harder when we only had them a limited,
limited amount of time. But then when we had them
all the time, like during most of quarantine, you're not
as quick to get aggravated and it just becomes part
of your routine. And so that was it for me.
It's just like your parents, right you just step up
(10:35):
and that's what you do. It's like, this is my
role right now, this is what needs to be done,
this is my responsibility, and you just fall into it.
Do we talk about the blow up fights that we had.
I don't know, Man, those are over and done with.
I'd rather leave them there. It's funny. I I was
(10:57):
doing questions on my Instagram and someone was like, well,
there's a few that were like you looked really sad
a few times, like in Canada, and I didn't answer
those ones, and then another one I when I did
answer there, they said, um, not to be nosy, but
I did notice that you slept alone a lot in Canada,
(11:19):
like at night, because I would do like a good
night posts and it's like, obviously you're not there. So
I answered that question. I was like, well, truthfully, first
and foremost I would I worked later the normal, and
so then I would have to get up or I
would want to sleep in, and like, I'm not the
person that can like if I hear anything in alarm
(11:43):
or I'm up. And so I was in another room.
Out of the kindness of my heart, I said, But
then the other times we're fighting and Mama gets the master. Yeah,
I don't know if I've are successfully kicked you out
of the room. I think one time you tried, and
I was like what You're like, no, you get I've tried.
(12:10):
You've definitely tried, but I don't stop. So then you're
just like getting screw it. I'm going to bed. I'm tired.
They were bad though they were bad blow ups. Why
do you think we had the blow ups? I mean,
I think there's no matter what, no matter what, like
(12:32):
going into a situation like that and you're accepting your roles.
I think you know, just like you know with there
when there's someone in the relationship that stays home with
the kids all day, right, and where it's the wife
of the husband come home, whoever is going to work
comes home, it's like they're tired from work. Well, the
other the other ones tired from being with the kids,
(12:53):
and it's that kind of push and pull of who's
more tired. Well, I've been with the kids all day,
so you said, up what, I've been working all day.
So I think there's some of that light resentment of
you're freaking exhausted, like you're working all day. You know,
you're like maybe needed more things from me, And then
I'm with the kids and it's hard just to like
(13:16):
pop by and see you from time to time because
it's with both kids and bringing them, packing stuff and
and so it's just I think there was some of
that and the fact that we weren't able to see
each other and connect. So it was my text message
to you accurate. Then we're like you wanted to be
in the supportive role, but at the same time you
had a resentment of being in that role. No, it
(13:38):
was more about like resentment I felt, I felt like
lack of respect of like what I was doing where
even though I did say many times like thanks for
holding it down, yeah, because I think at times, you know,
when like when you had breaks and I'll bring the
(14:01):
kids Out's great because you got to have time with them,
But when it was when like you're going to work
and you'd have to do hair and makeup and you
when the kids to come for a little bit. It's like, all, yeah,
Jolie is cool for a minute, like she's fine sitting
in like the makeup chair and getting her hair and
makeup done or something too. But Jason and I are
sitting in the trailer and at ten by ten trailer
for an hour like that's not you know, that's not
(14:25):
fun for him or I And yeah, you get to
kind of have some time, but not really so it's
for me. It was like, if you want some time,
let's let's do it on your break, which I think
pretty much every break that you had that would that
lined up with the kids schedule, I brought him. But
it's like some of those other times, I'm like, man,
if she's not realized it is hard to just come
by and sit here while she gets to steal a
(14:47):
few minutes here and there with the kids. Where I
like start having this thought and like that's selfish? Ever,
like is she being so like I know, I know
how you are, Like, I know you want to see
the kids so bad. It's not really from a selfish
stamp point, but you know it's doing all doing all
that and having the kids and taking it back and
forth and having their schedule is tough too. So I
(15:10):
think at times like it's like I was expected to
just come whenever you wanted me, come whenever you needed me,
and then okay, I'm done. I'm done with you guys.
I gotta go work, go home, you know. So I
think that's what it was. It wasn't about resentment about
being in that role. I am. I embraced that role
going into this, I think it was, and you did.
(15:30):
You did verbally affirmed me several times, and I tried
to do the same to you, because I know. I mean,
that's one thing, right, Like people even if they listen
to this and complain about how hard it was or whatever,
it's like people do not realize unless they stay spend
a whole day on set, what actors like, what you
(15:51):
guys have to go through, how long the days are,
how exhausting it is, how much you have to learn,
how many moving parts there are. You could do things
perfect five times, but every time there's someone else messing up,
the cameraman's messing up, this is out of place or whatever.
So there's a lot that you have to deal with
and you're exhausted, and so you know, I tried to
(16:13):
do my best to support you and be there. And
then when you weren't feeling supported or appreciated in things
like you know, that was hard too, because I always
trying to make a point to be supportive. Mm hmm, yeah,
I see, there's gears working. I'm just listening. Yeah, I mean,
(16:35):
it makes it makes sense. It's just there's always the
other side, you know, which I think is hard in
these kind of situations for sure, which is exactly what
I was saying. Why I compared it to just the
daily husband and wife whoever is again working or not.
(16:56):
Each person has those feelings of just you want the
other persons to your way, but it's just not not
really the case because you both are in different shoes,
you're both in different situations, so you can't fully respect
the other person's exhaustion or or whatever. So I think
that's that was the thing. It was like we had
(17:17):
that underline. There was again, your schedule was all whacked
out of place, so we didn't have the connection at
the time that we really wanted. By the time the
weekend came, you know, we didn't always get along and
we just try to make it about family time and
so you know that was just tough. Can I ask
(17:38):
you if you've thought about like where the when you
get to that point the like the mean words come from,
Well that has something to do that that fight was
about something else what it was still mean none the
(18:02):
other stuff too. Though. I'm just curious because I mean,
I know where like mine, like when I get upset,
I mean or I get like um, because it's you know,
I don't feel like that respect either, you know mm
hmm um, but like I don't want to hurt you.
(18:25):
So I'm just like curious, like if anything has come
up for you recently that like you've realized like oh,
like why you go there? Because I think some people
want to understand why someone says things they don't mean it,
but when they say it, it hurts the person and
for like me not to hold the people to hold
(18:47):
onto it. Do you see what I'm trying to say? Yeah,
it's my you know, it's my ultimate like it's my
last defense to be happy, respected or heard. I'll talk
(19:09):
about the mean words no saying is it to be
because you want to be heard? Like what is it
like that you're like wanting when someone's mean to their
partner with words like, what is it really like? What
are they really asking for? Is it to be heard?
Because I want to understand too, so that the person,
me and other people don't take it personal. Yeah, I
(19:30):
mean it's it's being heard and being respected. It's when
when I'm trying I try to use my words because
I never just immediately go there. It's always as we
start to argue, as we start to have conflict, well,
and we always want to we when we fight, we
we both want to be heard, and so we're just
saying it louder and more and we escalate. Like in
(19:51):
our therapist watches us, he literally is like I'm watching
it happen. It's like no, but hear me, but hear me,
and then it just keeps going. Yeah, it's just and
when it gets to that place and I just I'm
not being hurt, I'm not being respected, and even when
I try to say it from a good place, it's
(20:12):
just being devalued. I'm just like, yeah, it's just like
you know, hitting the red button just I don't know
what else to do, and it's unhealthy and I'm trying
to kick all that and it's been a long time
since I've used mean words and gotten mean like that,
and it sucks, you know, I feel bad, feel bad
(20:35):
that I did. Um, what's something that? Like, you know,
because we've all we've all said mean words like what's
something that like maybe your therapists told you or like that?
You see, like what you can do to not say
mean words because I know for me, like for me
(20:56):
not to be aggressive, like I have to physically walk away.
I'm not saying this. I'm not hoping you. I'm not
trying to like like I'm saying, we both have so
much to work on, you know. I'm just like trying
to understand that more because I take I think, like
what's from the big bomb fight that we kind of
(21:17):
had in Vancouver. The words are what have have stayed
with me and you don't mean those, but those are
the worst things that stay with someone. So it's like
I don't want to you know what I'm saying. Do
you know what I'm trying to say, Like I don't
want people to have to keep those in their brains
(21:39):
because that's not the truth. So it's like, Okay, if
you can spin it and try to understand your partner.
But there's no understanding of justifying like mean words being said, right,
and you and I are different. You said some mean
words and mean things to me and I I don't
hold onto those like you do. But we're different people
and that's okay. Mm hmm. You said mean things? Really
(22:07):
had that look like I didn't? I like, yeah, you do,
you did. I said mean things, but you cut deep
like you take my mean where. It's like I'm like
you're in a hole and you're like Europe like where.
It's like you take it like I'm like high school.
I mean, you're like X rayed mean. Now, neither are right.
(22:29):
That's the thing. Neither are right, zero percent. Neither are right.
And that's the thing. Like you know, name calling those
things are bad, but it's like you know what you do. No,
it's just me trying to force the upper hand or
(22:50):
force respect, which is just a bad way to do it.
I mean, it's you know, I try to do things
like say I'm not in a good place to talk,
but you don't really hear that. You know I tried that.
If you times so, I you know, I probably should
have just gotten up and walked away because in the
big blow up at the beginning, I feel was like,
I'm out in place to talk. You kept going. I said,
I'm out a place to talk. I said it louder
and louder, and you kept going. You kept going, but
(23:13):
you said the thing before and then I went down.
I was like, oh no, no, no, no, you do
not get to come like like that's you didn't say
any want to talk about At that point, I was like,
you can. I don't care. We're going because I was
offline then after that comment. Welcome to the train wreck, guys.
(23:37):
Let's wind down with Jana and Mike. We can't wait
to be back with another new guest. I think next week, though,
we have a guest coming on about what was The
book is called How Not to Fight? Everyone Fights, Everyone
fights or but I think, look, the moral of the
story is they're going to be nights where Mike is
(24:00):
maybe not in bed. We might have blow ups. Everybody fights,
everybody fights. I think it's just you don't want blow
ups all the freaking time. You don't want them weekly,
you don't want them monthly, you know, but we might
have a big I mean that was that's that's been
it's been a you know, and I think there was
(24:22):
a lot of factors that went into it. But we
have to now from that, like go to our therapists
and dissect things and dissect things and process them because
there's underlying things that you know, we're feeling and we
need to discuss it and not hold on to it,
because if you're holding onto any underlying stuff, it's just
(24:44):
gonna have You're going to have another blow up because
you're just shoving things down for the next big blow
up and that's not healthy. So if you're holding onto things, no,
it's tough, right because like maybe I had things coming
up during the time up there, but it's like I'm
not going to have enough on your plate. I'm not
going to bring that to you right now. And then
it's like you say something kind of attacking me, and
(25:07):
then that's like opens that cam. Yeah, you know, I've
been holding onto myn so I don't bother you or
stress you out. You know, wait till we get back
home and have a couple of session and here you
are saying to me and I just want to blow up,
you know, So I mean again, that's and that's all
I was saying at the end, like I'm so excited
(25:28):
to get home because I just I just want to
get back to not that like, yeah, a routine of
just having time together, having fun together, being connected, you know,
going to sleeping in the same bed, and you know, well,
and I think because a lot of those nights were
just because I needed to sleep in because I was
(25:50):
But that's disconnecting us, not even being in the same bed.
And like like this morning we went you went back
to being like I appreciate you, and I'm like, oh,
in my heart, I was like I forgot what that
felt like to like say those words to each other
because it's such a nice way to start the day.
And we didn't. We weren't able to start the day
like that. It's almost like we just were starting the
day just frustrated, annoyed and tired and just because we're
(26:13):
just on different schedules. Yeah, it was just it was hard.
Some moral of the story, try not to hold things in,
communicate from a good place and don't be high school
Janna or college and Mike. All right, let's take your
(26:34):
break and we'll get the zen. Mamas. Oh, it's all
a good fight. Let's do it all right, So let's
welcome our guests. We have Teresa Palmer and Sarah Olsen,
(26:54):
who are the Zen Mamas. They're both too successful, very
successful actresses and moms with multiple children. So you know,
we're just talking to you a little bit. And Teresa,
you have five kids, including the one of your belly.
And Sarah, how many do you have? Um, I have
three kids. I just had um a daughter back in September.
(27:16):
She's six months old now. And that was your rainbow baby, right, Yes,
that was my rainbow baby. That's just like the best. Right,
it's like you forget. It's not that you don't forge
it's not that you forget the pain, but just like
it it makes sense in a in a weird way. Yeah,
(27:36):
for sure. I mean it's definitely. I think for me personally,
it made for a little bit more of an anxious
pregnancy and um, you know after having a loss and
then I mean I was very excited, but I was
also experiencing this pregnancy during the pandemic, so um, that
(27:57):
anxiety of the pandemic on top of also I previously
had a loss and then um, but you know, once
I had her, it was just like it couldn't have
been a better mix of happy hormones, because I was
just like, oh my god, I was blown away. For sure.
It's one of those things where I just found out
one of my girlfriends is pregnant and this is going
(28:17):
to be her rainbow baby. And I'm like, look, just
so you know, it is normal to wipe every time
you go to the bathroom and think it's going to
be blood. Like, it's just until you're thirty eight, thirty
ninemies pregnant, you will you will do that and that's normal,
and it's I could tell you a million things, but
it's you're not going to stop thinking that it's the worst.
And I mean, you uys did it today. I was like,
(28:39):
let me just check. Oh my god, that quess is
fine and I'm weeks pregnant. It just doesn't go away,
does it. But I think again, like once you you know,
you have the baby and you can feel that zen um.
But how do you guys, how do you guys find
your zen um? Oh well, it's fun. We have a
(29:00):
probably a different definition of the terms zen then what
a lot of people do. I think that word can
be synonymous with, you know, the perfect family. Everyone so
well balanced children wear linen and frolic through fields of daisies.
You know, it's definitely not that gives such a false
(29:21):
sense of reality. UM. And I think we probably have
Instagram to blame for that. But our version of zen
is just really embracing the chaos and the unexpected moments,
the peaks and valleys of parenting and just trying to
find those moments of calm in amongst it all, liberating
ourselves from the perfect picture of how our parenting should look.
(29:45):
So that's really what we we call it zen Ish Finish.
So you guys first started like the whole zen Mama thing,
It all started as a blog correct and website. Yes, yeah, Teresa,
had I been doing yours in life she started that website.
When did you start that, Teresa? That would have been
(30:09):
like two thousand and ten with Phoebe Tounkin we did that.
That was like a wellness website, um, exercise and eating
healthy and you know, trying to find balance. And then
of course when we became parents. UM. I think for me,
it's sort of just organically shifted into oh, now how
(30:31):
do I do all those things and bear mother? Um?
And that's where Sarah came in because she was really
interested in doing it a blog as well, and we
just sort of put these ideas together and then our
community was born. That's fantastic. So in the community, what
can we first of all, where can you know, other
mama's find the community? And then also like what is
(30:53):
you know, what's one thing that is it? Is it?
You know, just parenting? Is it? Also relational stuff? What
what else can like they find in the community. Sure,
so it's um yours and mama dot com and then
we have Instagram, Facebook as well as at yours and
Mama and UM. You know, when Teresa and I started
(31:15):
this space, we were looking for, you know, what's our
who's in our community that we can talk to and
reach out to because, um, my family doesn't live here
in Los Angeles where I live in. Teresa like, she travels,
not stop for work. So you know you're right now
you're talking to her. She's in Estonia shooting a movie.
(31:36):
She was just here in l A like a few
weeks ago, and then a few weeks before that she
was in Wales and in Australia. So you know, it's
so hard when you're not planted somewhere and you have
your community of people around you, and so when we
first became mothers, we were kind of the first of
our friends to do that, and UM we really longed
for community setting, you know, other women to share ideas
(32:00):
and stories. And so when you come to Yours and Mama,
you can read articles about everything from UM someone who's
wanting to be a mother and going on that, you know,
fertility journey to UM breastfeeding multiple kids at the same time,
you know tan and breastfeeding. You can read articles about
pregnancy loss, and that's you know, kind of where our
(32:21):
book came into play is that we took all of
that information and kind of developed UM into a book
where you can you know, it's from the moment you
first have that idea all I want, I think I
want to be a parent to all the way through,
like what does that look like? What kind of parent
do I want to be? So every step of the
(32:41):
journey along the way for for both of you, for
being traveling working mothers, you know, what kind of advice
do you have or in your experience have you gone
through for other women out there and other families out
there dealing with a career that does take you all
over because you know, we just got back from Vancouver
with Jana being up there filming for six weeks, and
it's you know, taking both the kids. And I come
(33:04):
from more of a conservative mindset of all right, one,
once the kids are in school, you're not missing a
day and you can't be traveling. And Mama bear here
is like, like, I mean my babies with me, So like,
how have you guys personally managed that whole thing? We
have a rule that the family sticks together. Yeah, I
see a little happy dance over there, but it's important.
(33:27):
It's so important for the whole crew. Yeah. And I
actually I came to that decision. Um when my son
was was little. I was working with an actress and
she said, you know, one of my regrets is that
I left my child, you know, with her father when
(33:51):
I would go off and film for these long stretches
of time. And her daughter had now grown up, and
she said, Mom, why didn't you just bring me with you?
Bring me with you, let me adventure and have this
global experience and keep us as a family unit. And
she Um, that was one of the really most important
pieces of advice I got. This is before my son
(34:13):
was in school and she said, bring those babies with
you and bring them everywhere and keep that family unit together,
and school figure itself out. You will learn from the world.
You will learn from those experiences. You can home school,
You can do so many amazing creative things with the
kids in terms of learning and just just being in
different surroundings. Is um. You know, they're absorbing so much.
(34:38):
And I find that we're going to stone here right now.
And you know, today, as a part of his lesson,
I was like, all right, let's go outside and you know,
throw snowballs and we can talk about temperature and how
other cultures live and this is how you know, these
families who live in such a wintry environment, this is
how they have fun and look for these toboggans and
(34:59):
so you can you find yourself learning on the guard. Um.
So that's our family rule. We just stick together. My
husband travels with us, My mom tries to travel with
us as well as much as she can, and we
just make it work. We try, and you know, he'll
work for a period of time, then I'll work for
a period of time. So so far, so good, but
(35:19):
things might change, and then we will have that conversation
when those things start to seem like they're shifting. I
was gonna say that I tried it the other way.
We've always stacked together as a family. But my husband's
been on a show here in Los Angeles for like
twelve years. UM, this show called inn C I s
(35:40):
l A and UM. They work you know, eleven months
out of the year uh here, and so I have had,
you know, to go and and travel outside of l
A to work, um quite a few times. Then when
we had our son, UM, I went to shoot a
movie outside of l A. And it was really hard.
(36:00):
It was really hard for Eric. UM. I felt bad
for him because I was taking our son somewhere else
and you know, he would come and visit, but then
he would have to go back and he wouldn't see
him for a couple of weeks. And he's such a
present dad, you know, and he just I think, gets
so excited every day to see the kids when he
comes home. So you know, that was really tough on him.
(36:22):
And then this last time when I went to shoot,
I went to shoot in Toronto, UM, and it was
it was in two and nineteen and I was like, Okay,
I've never done this before, but I'm gonna like try
to make a deal where I go and I can
only be there for like three days at a time,
and then I'll fly back. I'll fly back every single week. Right,
(36:44):
it was a nightmare. I mean, shooting the show was amazing,
but at the same time, it came with this massive
um heartache of like I'm away from my kids. I'm
completely exhausted because I'm getting on a flight. The moment
I say my last line, I'm racing to the airport,
(37:05):
flying home. Got to be with my kids for a
couple of days, and then I'm racing back again. And
every single week for almost four months, I flew back
and forth to Toronto and it was great, airline miles
amazing like so many but it was a nightmare and um,
(37:26):
and I think something that this last year has taught
us where we've sort of had to park it, and
you know, our industry was shut down for a while,
was you know, what is it that I really want?
Do I do I want to go out of town
and shoot a show or a movie, or do I
just want to like try to work here and then
(37:46):
you know, when Eric's off, if we can shoot something
out of town, great, But what's most important, and I
agree with all of you, which is like keeping our
family unit together that has been you know, the silver
lining is being able to be this little unit during
this time. Yeah, I mean, I obviously agree with you girls,
because I just think because yeah, I just we're not
(38:10):
good when we're apart and the kids aren't either, you know,
like it's and I'm not when I'm not with my
kids for three days, like I'm a psycho and I
I'm not good at work and I'm not like I'm
not fun to be around on set. Like even when
I didn't see the kids for like the one day
you guys couldn't come see me on set and I
didn't see them all day, I was just like I'm
(38:31):
a terrible mom of crying in my trailer like what
am I? Why am I doing this? Like why am
I acting? Like why am I away from my kids?
And it's like, you know, it's just it's that that
mom guilt that guys, And I'm not not trying to
be mean, but like you can be like, no, we're
staying here and they're going to you know, you know,
public school. They can only miss eight days, So I'm
like that means that then mom can't work and and
(38:53):
I can't not not be with my kids. Like I know,
Dad's they I mean, he's Michael. My husband is a
very hands on dad, so hands on just like y'all's husbands.
But it's like it's still but we still need them
to with us. I think that, Yeah, I think that's where,
at least for me personally, I don't know if I
can speak for all husbands. I try not to take
(39:13):
it personally because I kind of do where I'm like,
the kids are with the second best person that could
possibly be with their with their father. Like it's not
like you're leaving them and there with a nanny or babysitter.
They're worth dad. So I was like, I get that
you want to see them, but it's gonna be okay.
I promise, like they're with daddy and it's and I
(39:33):
say again, a part of me takes it personally when
really I just have to let that go and realize, no,
this is just a mom being a mom and she
needs her babies no matter who who who. Yeah, it's
really not about you. It's not about the trust either.
It's like there's no one I would trust my kids
with more than my husband, Like he's amazing and I
love that. It's just that for you know, it's more
(39:55):
about me and how I operate and you know function.
It's like I didn't function with I had that Mark
like too about a week and a half ago because
he's not with us in Estonia. He's back in l A.
And he was like, how about this time we try
something where I take the boys and you have poets.
(40:19):
And I was like, absolutely not and he was like,
but but I'm there, dad, and have so much fun
with me. And I was like, I actually won't be
able to function. I won't be at He's like, you
had the space to do your work. I was like,
I won't be doing my work. I will quit my job.
I will say I can't handle this. I'm coming back home.
(40:41):
And so I was like, I win. I'm taking the children. Supportive,
I know. And I was like, all right, whatever you need. Hey,
this is Becca Tilly and Tanya Rada Rad that's me. Yeah,
And we have a podcast called scrubbing In. Yeah, we do.
(41:03):
We are two best friends and we love Gray's anatomy,
hence the name scrubbing In exactly. And this week we
have one of Grey's Anatomy's very own Anthony Hill, who
plays Winston, on the podcast to chat about what's been
going on. If you follow Grey's Antomy, you know that.
I mean, there's just a lot to talk about. There
(41:24):
are sudden deaths, people are coming back this season. There's
a whole lot going on. It is a huge season
for Grey's Anatomy. So I highly suggest you tune in.
And you're not just gonna get Gray's Anatomy. I mean
we have girl talk. It's just girl talk. It's like
you're talking with your best friends on the couch. Yeah,
except not with your best friends. You're talking with us,
your virtual best friends, virtual bfs. That's right. So listen
(41:47):
to Scrubbing In on the I Heart Radio app on
Apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. Do your
husband's ever have to force you to do something? Because
when I was in Vancouver, the director and through the
cast mates or like let's all go to dinner, and
I'm like, oh, that's on my day off, and like
I really need to put the kids down, and you know,
(42:07):
Michael's like go to dinner. But I was like I
was like getting highs, like being like but I really
should like put them down, right, babe, Like I need
to come home. So You've had to put them down
every night this week. I'm like, yeah, and I'll put
them down again and guess what, They've woken up every
morning and I can manage to put them down again.
And I know you can, but I think it's just
like he has to literally force me to do something
for myself. Yes, exact clue the same, and I feel guilty.
(42:32):
I'm like, oh, I haven't done bedtime with them at
all this week, and that's my one time to go
home and do bedtime. And I'm such a home body
as well. So I'm just saying my husband's like get
out there, like go do the cast, you know, go
meet the people you're working with, interact with them. Like what,
you still have an identity, you are still a woman
(42:55):
behind the mother in your guys as. What was the
hardest thing for you to write that you still have
a hard time with personally. Hmm that's a good question. Yes,
I know. I really like that, and I'm like, what,
you know, It's funny because I feel like through out
(43:18):
the writing process, um, you learned so much. You know,
there's so much that you're researching, and you're going inward
as well to figure out like how do I feel
about this and what does this mean to me? And um,
and I think you worked through a lot, you know Thereason,
I wrote this book, um, over the course of like
(43:40):
we did the Australian edition. First Theresa was, um, you
just had the baby. Yeah, you were pregnant. I was pregnant,
then had the baby, yeah, the exactly. And she was
like writing in the back of a RV going across
country trip with her family. And then when we were
(44:01):
doing the U s edition, I was super pregnant in
the pandemic and um, I'm writing from an air stream
sitting outside of a barn in Idaho, and um, you know,
it's just funny because you're like you're having these experiences, um,
staying up late at night, the children are sleeping, you know,
you're typing away and and you're like, yeah, this is
(44:22):
kind of it. This is a big part of the book,
which is just like finding those moments, um, of peace
in all of it. And what is it when you
make time for yourself, when you connect with your partner,
when you connect with your kids, you know. And so
I think through our process, um, you you, we kind
of like learned a lot, and it was very important
(44:42):
for us to write a chapter all on its own
about pregnancy loss, which I think is probably the most
impactful chapter for us, the two of us during that experience,
because Teresa can speak to this, but she started writing
it in her voice because she had experienced pregnancy loss
at the time, and that was certainly to answer your question,
(45:07):
that was a lot of reopening of old wounds. So
just kind of taking myself back there and being back
in that ultrasound room and hearing that news and sort
of the like immediate crashing down of the dream of
who this little person would be. I mean, you already
(45:27):
create what they look like, a star sign and what
the age gap is going to be between your children,
and sort of created this little person in your mind,
and then that sort of and just gets ripped away
from you. So I would say for me, the most
challenging part was the reopening of old wounds. And then
something quite profound happened to us, which was that I
(45:52):
had written We did chapter by chapter so Sarah would
tackle She tackled the pregnancy chapter and I tackled pregnancy loss.
Then we've sort of switched chapters and at our own
voice to the other person's chapter, and you know, I
sent her through the chapter and as she was sort
of reading through it, Sarah experienced her own pregnancy lost
(46:17):
and it was so it was such a moment that
just takes your breath away, because the very reason we
wrote this chapter was these moments that were happening in
real time to Sarah, and she was able to read
through the words and feel comforted and held and we
just knew, oh, this is this is the reason why
(46:39):
we wrote this. H Wow. Well, I mean there's a
million girls out there that are going to be so
thankful for this book. So I'm excited to get this
episode out and get this you know, share this book
because yeah, I mean there's it's one of my most
asked questions. But minus our relationships, you know, how do
(47:00):
you how do you deal with miscarriage? You know, because
it's it's not easy and it feels so isolating. So
you know, I appreciate you girls putting your words on
paper and so that all these women and you know
men too, can maybe read to understand and because you
guys go through your own battle as well. Yeah, I
think for us I mean, it's any knowledge that y'all
(47:22):
get helps us because we just want to understand you, right,
Like we're trying to be supportive. We're trying to you know,
kind of manage everything and while also having our own
and you know, separate, independent feelings. But it's hard to
be there for somebody when you don't know what's going on.
And so any kind of literature, any kind of you know,
people opening up about it. If it helps you, it
(47:44):
helps us because then you guys will start talking about it,
we'll understand more. We can be a better support system,
because that's like an ultimate helpless feeling, right like, how
do we make that better? And as your husbands, we
just want to protect and make it better immediately, but
there's no way to do that. Absolutely. I do remember
my husband there being that moment, you know, I was
(48:04):
reading through that chapter of the book and I called Teresa.
I'm like fully crying and I'm telling her everything, and
I was like, you know this, these reading these words
is helping me so much because truly connecting with other
women and hearing their stories, UM was the thing that
I think made me feel the most held through that process.
(48:27):
And UM but I remember there being a moment when
I like, I looked at my husband, who had been like, okay,
if you know, if this, if that happens, everything will
be okay. We'll just try again. And you know, he
has that thing that men have, which is the like,
all right, how do we soldier through? And let let's
fix it? And you know, guys are such doers. And
(48:47):
so in that moment I saw him start off that way.
And then I think the next morning he woke up
and I could tell like it really hit him and
he even said, you know this I had I didn't
know that this would be so hard for me. And
he was like this is um, I'm really sad, and
(49:07):
I was like, me too, I'm really sad too, and
these you know, this chapter that Tracy wrote is really helpful.
And so I went back and actually added a little
thing to the end of that chapter that said, um,
you know, while we were in the editing process, I
experienced pregnancy loss. And this was something that became very
important for us to put on into the world because
(49:30):
it helped me. Let me, I want to ask all
three of you this because even us going through miscarriages
ourselves never really asked like what is it about a
miscarriage feels so like, why does it feel so secretive,
so isolated, isolating as an experience, like for women, I'll
(49:52):
let you girls go first. Well, I just think there's
been this really long held stigma surrounding loss. And we
actually in our book sort of break down the terminology miscarriage,
and even just that word implies that it's the fault
of the mother because she's miss carried her baby, And
(50:15):
the majority of miscarriages or pregnancy losses as we prefer
to use that term, um, happened because of nothing the
mother has done at all. In fact, it's your body
recognizing for the most part that your baby isn't compatible
with life UM. And I just think there was such
(50:36):
shame there has been for such a long time surrounding
the fact that these little babies were being lost, and
no one was talking about it because of that stigma,
because of that feeling surrounding it. But now and noticing
that that narrative is changing, and we're seeing people even saying,
as Sarah recently, even some of like Chrissy Teagan who
(50:58):
has such a large platform, and coming out and saying
this happened to me, and this happened in This was
a second trimester loss. This is a really devastating thing
that that she was going through, and she was so
brave and open and vulnerable to share that. But it
helps you feel less alone. And so I'm really glad
(51:18):
to see that the story is it's shifting and now
there's a community of people out there willing to embrace
you and say, talk about that baby. How did it
feel to be pregnant with that baby? Um? And I
love that. I'm so glad it's headed in that direction.
I do think that people, um, I had a really
(51:40):
hard time knowing how to respond when you tell them
that you had a pregnancy loss. And I think that
part of the reason why it's probably been a sort
of thing that's been kept secret is that you are
looking to not have that uncomfortable moment of being like, oh,
I actually, yeah, I'm not pregnant anymore. I've lost the baby,
(52:02):
and then it's like silent and the person's like, oh
my gosh, this is sorry, but like they don't know
how to communicate with you because they also don't necessarily
maybe they haven't experienced it, so they don't necessarily see
it as a grief like losing someone who was already
earthside right, like that was already here with us. So
but actually it is like there's so many we grieve
(52:24):
in so many different ways, and I do see it
as um pure grief. And I you know, told Terrace
of this, but I had lost my dad when I
was pregnant with my daughter Esme, and Um, I think
that going through that process of grief and understanding what
that looked like and just being such a big thing
(52:46):
at in my life by losing my dad that when
I had my pregnancy loss, like I really felt, I
was like, oh this is this is grief again, and
I need to pay attention to it and I need
to treat it that way. I don't want to put
it aside. I don't want to hide it, like I
need to talk about it. And then I also need
(53:06):
to take care of myself because I understand that this
is a that my body is going to go through
all the stages and you it's not like you can
stop it, but if you allow it to happen, you
can really get through and try to you know, help
yourself heal um. And so you know, I think just
grieving before actually helped me to understand that that's what
(53:28):
this process was going to be, and how you can
be a friend in that it's just to listen and
be there. Sent my friends sent me flowers, and I
was like I was kind of embarrassed at first because
I was like, oh, and is that And and then
I was like why am I embarrassed about that? Like
it's so beautiful that they thought of me and sent
me flowers, and there's nothing to be ashamed of, you know.
(53:50):
And and my other girlfriend like brought Chucklin and wine
over and we sat and cried and laughed and you know.
And so I think that there's a way that you
can really show up for your friends just by being present,
just sending a love note, you know, just in any way.
But um, part of it I think is because of
you're afraid of what someone's reaction might be. How don't
(54:12):
you have anything to add to that? I mean yeah,
I mean for me, it was like when the miscarriages happened,
it was like I have one job to do, and
that's to bring a baby into this world, and like
I'm broken because I can't do that, and like it's
somehow my fault. And that's why I like when we
(54:34):
were discussing having a third baby, and I said, I
I don't want to carry again. Is because I don't
want to be the reason that my baby doesn't come
to term. You know, I want to give it it's
the best shot, because I think that like I'm broken somehow,
like there's and it's just the women just carry that
that shame, even though, like you said, Teresa, it has
everything to do with but I'm like, but but maybe
(54:56):
it is me because I needed more progesterone, right, like
or my lining is and good or whatever it is.
It's like, but I just I don't want to be
the reason that like I just don't feel like I'm
I'm woman enough, or like I just feel like a
broken woman. Yeah. And that's like the common thread that
connects us, I think, and then it sees us through
(55:17):
motherhood too. I mean, that same self critical voice follows
us through the whole journey. UM, And we really try
to address that in our book. Is just liberating ourselves
from that, um, the judgment and and and the shame
and the guilt that comes with this entire beautiful, colorful
(55:38):
journey of parent home. So with all that said, everyone
needs to get this Zen Mama Guide to Finding your
Rhythm in Pregnancy, birth and beyond. Ladies, cannot thank you
enough for such an awesome conversation. Let's all keep that
family unit together. And I just appreciate. I feel more
zen now, So thank you, invalidated, Sure, thank you, ladies,
(56:03):
appreciate guys, thank you. Um. I love those girls because
their mamas is like the perfect title for them. Yeah,
Like they just seemed just so seen. It feels I
feel seen, yeah, and just like just a presence about them,
even via a computer screen. It's just so calming and
(56:25):
confident and open. Um. So no, that's really cool that
they came out with all this stuff and and again
giving women another resource, very useful resource too, you know,
take you along the most empowering adventure that you could
possibly go on. You know. Um, well, this is a
(56:48):
fun episode and I'm excited because next week we have
um two authors coming on. And since you know we
talked about fighting earlier in the episode, their book title
is everyone fights, Everybody fights, so why not do it better? Exactly? Um,
keep fighting the good fight, guys, and we'll see you
(57:10):
next week.
Flying down with Jane Traylor and Michael Coughlin and I've
heard radio podcast. Hey guys, we're back home in Nashville.
Has it feel to be back? Um? When we walked in,
it felt like we had been gone. It didn't feel
like home. It was a very strange feeling. It felt
(00:22):
like a long time. It felt like that's when I
felt like a long time. But I miss I missed Vancouver.
I miss our like I missed our friends there. I
don't know, I just I miss it. But I am
happy to be back though. Um. And we're in a
new studio spot. Yeah. It was the former kids playing room,
which became my you know, my dad getaway gaming room
(00:47):
because the kids outgrew. I mean, this room is it's
it's I mean it's yeah. We're on paper when we
were building this house and we're like, Okay, this will
be a nice size room, and like it's a closet,
a closet. Very grateful, We're very grateful, not being snooty,
just you know, but with a kid's player room, this
isn't what we kind of imagine. So I was like,
(01:08):
we gotta so we mixed our media room. So our
media room is now the play room. In this room,
I'm like, what are we going to do with it?
And Dad's like, well, I could get a love sack.
And I was like, all right, if you're gonna put
the kids in the media room, which is the room
that I used to use, I was like, I at
least need to get you know, love sack and another
TV in this room. She's like a cart fine, and
then after a while now she's like, Okay, there's no
(01:30):
productivity going on in this room, so we have to
do something productive. So what if we do to our
podcast up here? And I was all for it, ah,
but I was just worried because Jase's room is right
across the hall and we do usually do so you
would give every excuse to not have this move into
his man cave, but we just don't have any other
(01:52):
space to put it. And I just I hate that
we have to, you know, put it up take it
down in our bedroom again. This all is very like
Champagne problem. But at the same time, every time I
walk past this room, I get this weird like annoyance
good it's going on in there. It's like there's a
you know, and there's this big, oversized ridiculous love sack
(02:12):
in the middle of the room, and I'm just like, like like,
this has to change. So yeah, so now this is
the podcast room and sometimes I get to buy but
it's all good. No, it's actually good because I'm the
one that sets everything up and takes everything down. So
it's gonna be nice just to leave this stuff up.
Unless now, if she starts coming by the rooms, like
(02:33):
those chords and stuff everywhere, why don't you just clean
up the podcast stuff and then when we come back
in here to work you No, no no, no, no, no, no,
I'm not gonna say that. I'm not going to say that.
I think it's I think it's good. Having said that,
we need to discuss the love sack that ain't going anywhere.
Then the table needs to come down. Fine, where are
we gonna put the table? Doesn't matter. Not go tell
(02:58):
our listeners before we move on about other stuff, just
a little bit about your moving your experience that we're
going to talk about my breast augmentation that's about to
happen here. Surely I'm talking about that too. I was like,
I showed you because I didn't tell you that. I
was like announcing it on socials no, you didn't. I
found out from a third party. But the funniest thing
(03:19):
was is one of my girlfriends thought that I had
like a nip slip because I was like holding my
my boob but like, you know, I was showing that
like obviously I have saggy mom boobs. Um. But I
will say I'm excited, but I'm nervous, and because especially
everyone's commenting about the b I I stuff, which is
(03:40):
the breast implant illness, and I'm like, you know, I've
done so much research around it, but when I look
at the symptoms, I'm like, it's like depression, Okay, anxiety.
So I'm like, I think I had b I I
without even breast implants in me. All that for you.
But it is good to know about it, and you know,
(04:00):
it's good to um. You know, it's good to be informed.
And I also think people have been nice about it.
But also I just don't want I think what I think.
It's okay. I think some things just might not work
for some people. And if I end up getting a
bi I and I start feeling more depression or more
(04:21):
of this, then I'm gonna be like, Okay, I'm gonna
get them out, which but I really think, I mean,
there's so many women that are fine, so I just
have to focus on the positive. Are you ready to
take care of me? H? Yeah? I told Catherine because
we're Katherine, We're talking about it, and I was like, well,
(04:42):
I can't wait for you to not gasp when I
show you my boobs. I'll never forget. I showed her
my boobs after because look, my ariolas just never have
gone backed down from like after having kids. And she's like,
I was like, is this normal? And she goes and
I was like, well, that's not the reaction I wanted.
(05:04):
She's like, it's a salami. Just tell everybody out there.
I mean, who cares. I'm like whatever. It's kind of
like and I go back to when I was doing
the movie. This kind of goes back to the movie.
I'm like changing in the car, you know, changing in
the because I had it was eight I think it
(05:26):
was sixty, Yes, sixty costume changes in the movie, and
most costume changes in the movie is like it's sixty
and like going back and forth. Well, I didn't have
time cameras, Like, I didn't have time to go back
to my trailer and change like I was just like,
is there an empty hallway? But by then in the movie,
I'm like, you know, things are flying off and it
(05:52):
was I think it was my driver. She was just
like it's nice to I'm like, look, we all have boobs,
we all got you know, stuff, and it's like, I
don't we don't need to sexualize it. And I think
that's when all the like, that's when I started kind
of like having those conversations because I'm like, but we
don't need to sexualize it. Is I have boobs, you've
got boobs, you've got a penis. I gotta like, we
(06:12):
don't need to Yeah. Yeah, I mean you're fighting against
years and years and years of uh advertising and marketing
towards sexualizing the human body. I know. I'm just sick
of it. No, I I get it, I get it.
(06:34):
I mean unfortunately sex Cells does it anymore though, because
I feel like it's they go they're going so overboard
because it's like every single show, I'm like, where's the
seventh Heaven? Give me like wholesome seventh Heaven, Like where
they don't like have you know, just every scene I mean,
(06:56):
and don't get me wrong, like Britain was like my
soft porn. Like I loved it, but at the same time,
I'm like, okay, like does it have to be every show?
Which I was like thrilled that Queen's gam but didn't
have like a throw down, do you know what I'm saying, Like,
I just feel like it's so over the top. It
is it is. And we talked about this a while back.
(07:17):
I worry even I just like fast forward some things.
I'm just like why it's not necessary in some parts.
And my fear is that, like with the success of
Bridge Retain, there's gonna be other shows that try to
come out and be that intense. Yeah, but the movie
was good. I had a lot of fun. Um, I'm
(07:38):
kind of scared for people to see it because I
don't even know how it's going to turn out. I
had a total panic attack the day of and I
ended up reaching out to Chantel my winter Hill Coastar,
and she kind of talked me off the cliff. Where
were we having a panic attack about? Um? I was like,
(07:59):
I can't do it. M I mean, I know. Joke
was like I was crying in my trailer day one,
like full on crying and just like having a massive
panic attack. I'm like, what am I thinking? I can't
play this part. I've never like I'm just the Christmas girl,
I'm just the like fluffy. Hey, we're having a Winner
festival in my hometown. So it was. And then the
(08:22):
first scene sucked. So I don't even want to watch
that scene. I hope I hope it gets cut, to
be honest with you, because I was just so nervous.
But you know what, I'm excited for the final product
because I think it's going to instill the confidence in
you that a lot of us are around you that
support you. See. We see, we know you're able to
do that. We know you're talented enough. Two, you know,
(08:46):
really act and be a different character, you know, and
find parts of that character in yourself and utilize that
to your ability. And I think I think two is
good for you just to kind of to stretch your
wings a little bit and not get stuck in that
same routine of the Christmas festival and here's this and
here's this's just great. I love Christmas. I'm not knocking
(09:06):
that at all, And I'm great that's what you've done recently?
Yea more of um because you've never you haven't done
anything like this since I've been with you, you know,
so I'm excited for it. I'm excited for you. I
think you're gonna impress yourself with how good it turns out.
Um Eastern are you? Yes? It has. Ever since I
(09:30):
saw you in that prison jump suit, I was like,
what is going on? Is this Orange is the new Black?
What is happening? I can't wait to see this movie. Yeah,
I get arrested, I get shoved into it like it's
it's it's it's crazy. It's based on a true story.
I'm not allowed to say anything really about it yet,
but it really was fun and I I just hope
it turns out good. But if not, there's always twelve
(09:54):
days of Christmas. It will It's gonna be great. It's
gonna be a lot of fun. And how are you, babe? Like,
we're back them now? You had the kids for such
a long time. Yeah, yeah, I'm good now to have
you around and to be able to bounce things off
of you and stuff. But you know, we talked about it.
It's sometimes you know, when we used to have help
a lot, and we'd have the kids friendly like an
(10:15):
hour or two that day because we had a lot
of work stuff or whatever going on. It was almost
like it was harder when we only had them a limited,
limited amount of time. But then when we had them
all the time, like during most of quarantine, you're not
as quick to get aggravated and it just becomes part
of your routine. And so that was it for me.
It's just like your parents, right you just step up
(10:35):
and that's what you do. It's like, this is my
role right now, this is what needs to be done,
this is my responsibility, and you just fall into it.
Do we talk about the blow up fights that we had.
I don't know, Man, those are over and done with.
I'd rather leave them there. It's funny. I I was
(10:57):
doing questions on my Instagram and someone was like, well,
there's a few that were like you looked really sad
a few times, like in Canada, and I didn't answer
those ones, and then another one I when I did
answer there, they said, um, not to be nosy, but
I did notice that you slept alone a lot in Canada,
(11:19):
like at night, because I would do like a good
night posts and it's like, obviously you're not there. So
I answered that question. I was like, well, truthfully, first
and foremost I would I worked later the normal, and
so then I would have to get up or I
would want to sleep in, and like, I'm not the
person that can like if I hear anything in alarm
(11:43):
or I'm up. And so I was in another room.
Out of the kindness of my heart, I said, But
then the other times we're fighting and Mama gets the master. Yeah,
I don't know if I've are successfully kicked you out
of the room. I think one time you tried, and
I was like what You're like, no, you get I've tried.
(12:10):
You've definitely tried, but I don't stop. So then you're
just like getting screw it. I'm going to bed. I'm tired.
They were bad though they were bad blow ups. Why
do you think we had the blow ups? I mean,
I think there's no matter what, no matter what, like
(12:32):
going into a situation like that and you're accepting your roles.
I think you know, just like you know with there
when there's someone in the relationship that stays home with
the kids all day, right, and where it's the wife
of the husband come home, whoever is going to work
comes home, it's like they're tired from work. Well, the
other the other ones tired from being with the kids,
(12:53):
and it's that kind of push and pull of who's
more tired. Well, I've been with the kids all day,
so you said, up what, I've been working all day.
So I think there's some of that light resentment of
you're freaking exhausted, like you're working all day. You know,
you're like maybe needed more things from me, And then
I'm with the kids and it's hard just to like
(13:16):
pop by and see you from time to time because
it's with both kids and bringing them, packing stuff and
and so it's just I think there was some of
that and the fact that we weren't able to see
each other and connect. So it was my text message
to you accurate. Then we're like you wanted to be
in the supportive role, but at the same time you
had a resentment of being in that role. No, it
(13:38):
was more about like resentment I felt, I felt like
lack of respect of like what I was doing where
even though I did say many times like thanks for
holding it down, yeah, because I think at times, you know,
when like when you had breaks and I'll bring the
(14:01):
kids Out's great because you got to have time with them,
But when it was when like you're going to work
and you'd have to do hair and makeup and you
when the kids to come for a little bit. It's like, all, yeah,
Jolie is cool for a minute, like she's fine sitting
in like the makeup chair and getting her hair and
makeup done or something too. But Jason and I are
sitting in the trailer and at ten by ten trailer
for an hour like that's not you know, that's not
(14:25):
fun for him or I And yeah, you get to
kind of have some time, but not really so it's
for me. It was like, if you want some time,
let's let's do it on your break, which I think
pretty much every break that you had that would that
lined up with the kids schedule, I brought him. But
it's like some of those other times, I'm like, man,
if she's not realized it is hard to just come
by and sit here while she gets to steal a
(14:47):
few minutes here and there with the kids. Where I
like start having this thought and like that's selfish? Ever,
like is she being so like I know, I know
how you are, Like, I know you want to see
the kids so bad. It's not really from a selfish
stamp point, but you know it's doing all doing all
that and having the kids and taking it back and
forth and having their schedule is tough too. So I
(15:10):
think at times like it's like I was expected to
just come whenever you wanted me, come whenever you needed me,
and then okay, I'm done. I'm done with you guys.
I gotta go work, go home, you know. So I
think that's what it was. It wasn't about resentment about
being in that role. I am. I embraced that role
going into this, I think it was, and you did.
(15:30):
You did verbally affirmed me several times, and I tried
to do the same to you, because I know. I mean,
that's one thing, right, Like people even if they listen
to this and complain about how hard it was or whatever,
it's like people do not realize unless they stay spend
a whole day on set, what actors like, what you
(15:51):
guys have to go through, how long the days are,
how exhausting it is, how much you have to learn,
how many moving parts there are. You could do things
perfect five times, but every time there's someone else messing up,
the cameraman's messing up, this is out of place or whatever.
So there's a lot that you have to deal with
and you're exhausted, and so you know, I tried to
(16:13):
do my best to support you and be there. And
then when you weren't feeling supported or appreciated in things
like you know, that was hard too, because I always
trying to make a point to be supportive. Mm hmm, yeah,
I see, there's gears working. I'm just listening. Yeah, I mean,
(16:35):
it makes it makes sense. It's just there's always the
other side, you know, which I think is hard in
these kind of situations for sure, which is exactly what
I was saying. Why I compared it to just the
daily husband and wife whoever is again working or not.
(16:56):
Each person has those feelings of just you want the
other persons to your way, but it's just not not
really the case because you both are in different shoes,
you're both in different situations, so you can't fully respect
the other person's exhaustion or or whatever. So I think
that's that was the thing. It was like we had
(17:17):
that underline. There was again, your schedule was all whacked
out of place, so we didn't have the connection at
the time that we really wanted. By the time the
weekend came, you know, we didn't always get along and
we just try to make it about family time and
so you know that was just tough. Can I ask
(17:38):
you if you've thought about like where the when you
get to that point the like the mean words come from,
Well that has something to do that that fight was
about something else what it was still mean none the
(18:02):
other stuff too. Though. I'm just curious because I mean,
I know where like mine, like when I get upset,
I mean or I get like um, because it's you know,
I don't feel like that respect either, you know mm
hmm um, but like I don't want to hurt you.
(18:25):
So I'm just like curious, like if anything has come
up for you recently that like you've realized like oh,
like why you go there? Because I think some people
want to understand why someone says things they don't mean it,
but when they say it, it hurts the person and
for like me not to hold the people to hold
(18:47):
onto it. Do you see what I'm trying to say? Yeah,
it's my you know, it's my ultimate like it's my
last defense to be happy, respected or heard. I'll talk
(19:09):
about the mean words no saying is it to be
because you want to be heard? Like what is it
like that you're like wanting when someone's mean to their
partner with words like, what is it really like? What
are they really asking for? Is it to be heard?
Because I want to understand too, so that the person,
me and other people don't take it personal. Yeah, I
(19:30):
mean it's it's being heard and being respected. It's when
when I'm trying I try to use my words because
I never just immediately go there. It's always as we
start to argue, as we start to have conflict, well,
and we always want to we when we fight, we
we both want to be heard, and so we're just
saying it louder and more and we escalate. Like in
(19:51):
our therapist watches us, he literally is like I'm watching
it happen. It's like no, but hear me, but hear me,
and then it just keeps going. Yeah, it's just and
when it gets to that place and I just I'm
not being hurt, I'm not being respected, and even when
I try to say it from a good place, it's
(20:12):
just being devalued. I'm just like, yeah, it's just like
you know, hitting the red button just I don't know
what else to do, and it's unhealthy and I'm trying
to kick all that and it's been a long time
since I've used mean words and gotten mean like that,
and it sucks, you know, I feel bad, feel bad
(20:35):
that I did. Um, what's something that? Like, you know,
because we've all we've all said mean words like what's
something that like maybe your therapists told you or like that?
You see, like what you can do to not say
mean words because I know for me, like for me
(20:56):
not to be aggressive, like I have to physically walk away.
I'm not saying this. I'm not hoping you. I'm not
trying to like like I'm saying, we both have so
much to work on, you know. I'm just like trying
to understand that more because I take I think, like
what's from the big bomb fight that we kind of
(21:17):
had in Vancouver. The words are what have have stayed
with me and you don't mean those, but those are
the worst things that stay with someone. So it's like
I don't want to you know what I'm saying. Do
you know what I'm trying to say, Like I don't
want people to have to keep those in their brains
(21:39):
because that's not the truth. So it's like, Okay, if
you can spin it and try to understand your partner.
But there's no understanding of justifying like mean words being said, right,
and you and I are different. You said some mean
words and mean things to me and I I don't
hold onto those like you do. But we're different people
and that's okay. Mm hmm. You said mean things? Really
(22:07):
had that look like I didn't? I like, yeah, you do,
you did. I said mean things, but you cut deep
like you take my mean where. It's like I'm like
you're in a hole and you're like Europe like where.
It's like you take it like I'm like high school.
I mean, you're like X rayed mean. Now, neither are right.
(22:29):
That's the thing. Neither are right, zero percent. Neither are right.
And that's the thing. Like you know, name calling those
things are bad, but it's like you know what you do. No,
it's just me trying to force the upper hand or
(22:50):
force respect, which is just a bad way to do it.
I mean, it's you know, I try to do things
like say I'm not in a good place to talk,
but you don't really hear that. You know I tried that.
If you times so, I you know, I probably should
have just gotten up and walked away because in the
big blow up at the beginning, I feel was like,
I'm out in place to talk. You kept going. I said,
I'm out a place to talk. I said it louder
and louder, and you kept going. You kept going, but
(23:13):
you said the thing before and then I went down.
I was like, oh no, no, no, no, you do
not get to come like like that's you didn't say
any want to talk about At that point, I was like,
you can. I don't care. We're going because I was
offline then after that comment. Welcome to the train wreck, guys.
(23:37):
Let's wind down with Jana and Mike. We can't wait
to be back with another new guest. I think next week, though,
we have a guest coming on about what was The
book is called How Not to Fight? Everyone Fights, Everyone
fights or but I think, look, the moral of the
story is they're going to be nights where Mike is
(24:00):
maybe not in bed. We might have blow ups. Everybody fights,
everybody fights. I think it's just you don't want blow
ups all the freaking time. You don't want them weekly,
you don't want them monthly, you know, but we might
have a big I mean that was that's that's been
it's been a you know, and I think there was
(24:22):
a lot of factors that went into it. But we
have to now from that, like go to our therapists
and dissect things and dissect things and process them because
there's underlying things that you know, we're feeling and we
need to discuss it and not hold on to it,
because if you're holding onto any underlying stuff, it's just
(24:44):
gonna have You're going to have another blow up because
you're just shoving things down for the next big blow
up and that's not healthy. So if you're holding onto things, no,
it's tough, right because like maybe I had things coming
up during the time up there, but it's like I'm
not going to have enough on your plate. I'm not
going to bring that to you right now. And then
it's like you say something kind of attacking me, and
(25:07):
then that's like opens that cam. Yeah, you know, I've
been holding onto myn so I don't bother you or
stress you out. You know, wait till we get back
home and have a couple of session and here you
are saying to me and I just want to blow up,
you know, So I mean again, that's and that's all
I was saying at the end, like I'm so excited
(25:28):
to get home because I just I just want to
get back to not that like, yeah, a routine of
just having time together, having fun together, being connected, you know,
going to sleeping in the same bed, and you know, well,
and I think because a lot of those nights were
just because I needed to sleep in because I was
(25:50):
But that's disconnecting us, not even being in the same bed.
And like like this morning we went you went back
to being like I appreciate you, and I'm like, oh,
in my heart, I was like I forgot what that
felt like to like say those words to each other
because it's such a nice way to start the day.
And we didn't. We weren't able to start the day
like that. It's almost like we just were starting the
day just frustrated, annoyed and tired and just because we're
(26:13):
just on different schedules. Yeah, it was just it was hard.
Some moral of the story, try not to hold things in,
communicate from a good place and don't be high school
Janna or college and Mike. All right, let's take your
(26:34):
break and we'll get the zen. Mamas. Oh, it's all
a good fight. Let's do it all right, So let's
welcome our guests. We have Teresa Palmer and Sarah Olsen,
(26:54):
who are the Zen Mamas. They're both too successful, very
successful actresses and moms with multiple children. So you know,
we're just talking to you a little bit. And Teresa,
you have five kids, including the one of your belly.
And Sarah, how many do you have? Um, I have
three kids. I just had um a daughter back in September.
(27:16):
She's six months old now. And that was your rainbow baby, right, Yes,
that was my rainbow baby. That's just like the best. Right,
it's like you forget. It's not that you don't forge
it's not that you forget the pain, but just like
it it makes sense in a in a weird way. Yeah,
(27:36):
for sure. I mean it's definitely. I think for me personally,
it made for a little bit more of an anxious
pregnancy and um, you know after having a loss and
then I mean I was very excited, but I was
also experiencing this pregnancy during the pandemic, so um, that
(27:57):
anxiety of the pandemic on top of also I previously
had a loss and then um, but you know, once
I had her, it was just like it couldn't have
been a better mix of happy hormones, because I was
just like, oh my god, I was blown away. For sure.
It's one of those things where I just found out
one of my girlfriends is pregnant and this is going
(28:17):
to be her rainbow baby. And I'm like, look, just
so you know, it is normal to wipe every time
you go to the bathroom and think it's going to
be blood. Like, it's just until you're thirty eight, thirty
ninemies pregnant, you will you will do that and that's normal,
and it's I could tell you a million things, but
it's you're not going to stop thinking that it's the worst.
And I mean, you uys did it today. I was like,
(28:39):
let me just check. Oh my god, that quess is
fine and I'm weeks pregnant. It just doesn't go away,
does it. But I think again, like once you you know,
you have the baby and you can feel that zen um.
But how do you guys, how do you guys find
your zen um? Oh well, it's fun. We have a
(29:00):
probably a different definition of the terms zen then what
a lot of people do. I think that word can
be synonymous with, you know, the perfect family. Everyone so
well balanced children wear linen and frolic through fields of daisies.
You know, it's definitely not that gives such a false
(29:21):
sense of reality. UM. And I think we probably have
Instagram to blame for that. But our version of zen
is just really embracing the chaos and the unexpected moments,
the peaks and valleys of parenting and just trying to
find those moments of calm in amongst it all, liberating
ourselves from the perfect picture of how our parenting should look.
(29:45):
So that's really what we we call it zen Ish Finish.
So you guys first started like the whole zen Mama thing,
It all started as a blog correct and website. Yes, yeah, Teresa,
had I been doing yours in life she started that website.
When did you start that, Teresa? That would have been
(30:09):
like two thousand and ten with Phoebe Tounkin we did that.
That was like a wellness website, um, exercise and eating
healthy and you know, trying to find balance. And then
of course when we became parents. UM. I think for me,
it's sort of just organically shifted into oh, now how
(30:31):
do I do all those things and bear mother? Um?
And that's where Sarah came in because she was really
interested in doing it a blog as well, and we
just sort of put these ideas together and then our
community was born. That's fantastic. So in the community, what
can we first of all, where can you know, other
mama's find the community? And then also like what is
(30:53):
you know, what's one thing that is it? Is it?
You know, just parenting? Is it? Also relational stuff? What
what else can like they find in the community. Sure,
so it's um yours and mama dot com and then
we have Instagram, Facebook as well as at yours and
Mama and UM. You know, when Teresa and I started
(31:15):
this space, we were looking for, you know, what's our
who's in our community that we can talk to and
reach out to because, um, my family doesn't live here
in Los Angeles where I live in. Teresa like, she travels,
not stop for work. So you know you're right now
you're talking to her. She's in Estonia shooting a movie.
(31:36):
She was just here in l A like a few
weeks ago, and then a few weeks before that she
was in Wales and in Australia. So you know, it's
so hard when you're not planted somewhere and you have
your community of people around you, and so when we
first became mothers, we were kind of the first of
our friends to do that, and UM we really longed
for community setting, you know, other women to share ideas
(32:00):
and stories. And so when you come to Yours and Mama,
you can read articles about everything from UM someone who's
wanting to be a mother and going on that, you know,
fertility journey to UM breastfeeding multiple kids at the same time,
you know tan and breastfeeding. You can read articles about
pregnancy loss, and that's you know, kind of where our
(32:21):
book came into play is that we took all of
that information and kind of developed UM into a book
where you can you know, it's from the moment you
first have that idea all I want, I think I
want to be a parent to all the way through,
like what does that look like? What kind of parent
do I want to be? So every step of the
(32:41):
journey along the way for for both of you, for
being traveling working mothers, you know, what kind of advice
do you have or in your experience have you gone
through for other women out there and other families out
there dealing with a career that does take you all
over because you know, we just got back from Vancouver
with Jana being up there filming for six weeks, and
it's you know, taking both the kids. And I come
(33:04):
from more of a conservative mindset of all right, one,
once the kids are in school, you're not missing a
day and you can't be traveling. And Mama bear here
is like, like, I mean my babies with me, So like,
how have you guys personally managed that whole thing? We
have a rule that the family sticks together. Yeah, I
see a little happy dance over there, but it's important.
(33:27):
It's so important for the whole crew. Yeah. And I
actually I came to that decision. Um when my son
was was little. I was working with an actress and
she said, you know, one of my regrets is that
I left my child, you know, with her father when
(33:51):
I would go off and film for these long stretches
of time. And her daughter had now grown up, and
she said, Mom, why didn't you just bring me with you?
Bring me with you, let me adventure and have this
global experience and keep us as a family unit. And
she Um, that was one of the really most important
pieces of advice I got. This is before my son
(34:13):
was in school and she said, bring those babies with
you and bring them everywhere and keep that family unit together,
and school figure itself out. You will learn from the world.
You will learn from those experiences. You can home school,
You can do so many amazing creative things with the
kids in terms of learning and just just being in
different surroundings. Is um. You know, they're absorbing so much.
(34:38):
And I find that we're going to stone here right now.
And you know, today, as a part of his lesson,
I was like, all right, let's go outside and you know,
throw snowballs and we can talk about temperature and how
other cultures live and this is how you know, these
families who live in such a wintry environment, this is
how they have fun and look for these toboggans and
(34:59):
so you can you find yourself learning on the guard. Um.
So that's our family rule. We just stick together. My
husband travels with us, My mom tries to travel with
us as well as much as she can, and we
just make it work. We try, and you know, he'll
work for a period of time, then I'll work for
a period of time. So so far, so good, but
(35:19):
things might change, and then we will have that conversation
when those things start to seem like they're shifting. I
was gonna say that I tried it the other way.
We've always stacked together as a family. But my husband's
been on a show here in Los Angeles for like
twelve years. UM, this show called inn C I s
(35:40):
l A and UM. They work you know, eleven months
out of the year uh here, and so I have had,
you know, to go and and travel outside of l
A to work, um quite a few times. Then when
we had our son, UM, I went to shoot a
movie outside of l A. And it was really hard.
(36:00):
It was really hard for Eric. UM. I felt bad
for him because I was taking our son somewhere else
and you know, he would come and visit, but then
he would have to go back and he wouldn't see
him for a couple of weeks. And he's such a
present dad, you know, and he just I think, gets
so excited every day to see the kids when he
comes home. So you know, that was really tough on him.
(36:22):
And then this last time when I went to shoot,
I went to shoot in Toronto, UM, and it was
it was in two and nineteen and I was like, Okay,
I've never done this before, but I'm gonna like try
to make a deal where I go and I can
only be there for like three days at a time,
and then I'll fly back. I'll fly back every single week. Right,
(36:44):
it was a nightmare. I mean, shooting the show was amazing,
but at the same time, it came with this massive
um heartache of like I'm away from my kids. I'm
completely exhausted because I'm getting on a flight. The moment
I say my last line, I'm racing to the airport,
(37:05):
flying home. Got to be with my kids for a
couple of days, and then I'm racing back again. And
every single week for almost four months, I flew back
and forth to Toronto and it was great, airline miles
amazing like so many but it was a nightmare and um,
(37:26):
and I think something that this last year has taught
us where we've sort of had to park it, and
you know, our industry was shut down for a while,
was you know, what is it that I really want?
Do I do I want to go out of town
and shoot a show or a movie, or do I
just want to like try to work here and then
(37:46):
you know, when Eric's off, if we can shoot something
out of town, great, But what's most important, and I
agree with all of you, which is like keeping our
family unit together that has been you know, the silver
lining is being able to be this little unit during
this time. Yeah, I mean, I obviously agree with you girls,
because I just think because yeah, I just we're not
(38:10):
good when we're apart and the kids aren't either, you know,
like it's and I'm not when I'm not with my
kids for three days, like I'm a psycho and I
I'm not good at work and I'm not like I'm
not fun to be around on set. Like even when
I didn't see the kids for like the one day
you guys couldn't come see me on set and I
didn't see them all day, I was just like I'm
(38:31):
a terrible mom of crying in my trailer like what
am I? Why am I doing this? Like why am
I acting? Like why am I away from my kids?
And it's like, you know, it's just it's that that
mom guilt that guys, And I'm not not trying to
be mean, but like you can be like, no, we're
staying here and they're going to you know, you know,
public school. They can only miss eight days, So I'm
like that means that then mom can't work and and
(38:53):
I can't not not be with my kids. Like I know,
Dad's they I mean, he's Michael. My husband is a
very hands on dad, so hands on just like y'all's husbands.
But it's like it's still but we still need them
to with us. I think that, Yeah, I think that's where,
at least for me personally, I don't know if I
can speak for all husbands. I try not to take
(39:13):
it personally because I kind of do where I'm like,
the kids are with the second best person that could
possibly be with their with their father. Like it's not
like you're leaving them and there with a nanny or babysitter.
They're worth dad. So I was like, I get that
you want to see them, but it's gonna be okay.
I promise, like they're with daddy and it's and I
(39:33):
say again, a part of me takes it personally when
really I just have to let that go and realize, no,
this is just a mom being a mom and she
needs her babies no matter who who who. Yeah, it's
really not about you. It's not about the trust either.
It's like there's no one I would trust my kids
with more than my husband, Like he's amazing and I
love that. It's just that for you know, it's more
(39:55):
about me and how I operate and you know function.
It's like I didn't function with I had that Mark
like too about a week and a half ago because
he's not with us in Estonia. He's back in l A.
And he was like, how about this time we try
something where I take the boys and you have poets.
(40:19):
And I was like, absolutely not and he was like,
but but I'm there, dad, and have so much fun
with me. And I was like, I actually won't be
able to function. I won't be at He's like, you
had the space to do your work. I was like,
I won't be doing my work. I will quit my job.
I will say I can't handle this. I'm coming back home.
(40:41):
And so I was like, I win. I'm taking the children. Supportive,
I know. And I was like, all right, whatever you need. Hey,
this is Becca Tilly and Tanya Rada Rad that's me. Yeah,
And we have a podcast called scrubbing In. Yeah, we do.
(41:03):
We are two best friends and we love Gray's anatomy,
hence the name scrubbing In exactly. And this week we
have one of Grey's Anatomy's very own Anthony Hill, who
plays Winston, on the podcast to chat about what's been
going on. If you follow Grey's Antomy, you know that.
I mean, there's just a lot to talk about. There
(41:24):
are sudden deaths, people are coming back this season. There's
a whole lot going on. It is a huge season
for Grey's Anatomy. So I highly suggest you tune in.
And you're not just gonna get Gray's Anatomy. I mean
we have girl talk. It's just girl talk. It's like
you're talking with your best friends on the couch. Yeah,
except not with your best friends. You're talking with us,
your virtual best friends, virtual bfs. That's right. So listen
(41:47):
to Scrubbing In on the I Heart Radio app on
Apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. Do your
husband's ever have to force you to do something? Because
when I was in Vancouver, the director and through the
cast mates or like let's all go to dinner, and
I'm like, oh, that's on my day off, and like
I really need to put the kids down, and you know,
(42:07):
Michael's like go to dinner. But I was like I
was like getting highs, like being like but I really
should like put them down, right, babe, Like I need
to come home. So You've had to put them down
every night this week. I'm like, yeah, and I'll put
them down again and guess what, They've woken up every
morning and I can manage to put them down again.
And I know you can, but I think it's just
like he has to literally force me to do something
for myself. Yes, exact clue the same, and I feel guilty.
(42:32):
I'm like, oh, I haven't done bedtime with them at
all this week, and that's my one time to go
home and do bedtime. And I'm such a home body
as well. So I'm just saying my husband's like get
out there, like go do the cast, you know, go
meet the people you're working with, interact with them. Like what,
you still have an identity, you are still a woman
(42:55):
behind the mother in your guys as. What was the
hardest thing for you to write that you still have
a hard time with personally. Hmm that's a good question. Yes,
I know. I really like that, and I'm like, what,
you know, It's funny because I feel like through out
(43:18):
the writing process, um, you learned so much. You know,
there's so much that you're researching, and you're going inward
as well to figure out like how do I feel
about this and what does this mean to me? And um,
and I think you worked through a lot, you know Thereason,
I wrote this book, um, over the course of like
(43:40):
we did the Australian edition. First Theresa was, um, you
just had the baby. Yeah, you were pregnant. I was pregnant,
then had the baby, yeah, the exactly. And she was
like writing in the back of a RV going across
country trip with her family. And then when we were
(44:01):
doing the U s edition, I was super pregnant in
the pandemic and um, I'm writing from an air stream
sitting outside of a barn in Idaho, and um, you know,
it's just funny because you're like you're having these experiences, um,
staying up late at night, the children are sleeping, you know,
you're typing away and and you're like, yeah, this is
(44:22):
kind of it. This is a big part of the book,
which is just like finding those moments, um, of peace
in all of it. And what is it when you
make time for yourself, when you connect with your partner,
when you connect with your kids, you know. And so
I think through our process, um, you you, we kind
of like learned a lot, and it was very important
(44:42):
for us to write a chapter all on its own
about pregnancy loss, which I think is probably the most
impactful chapter for us, the two of us during that experience,
because Teresa can speak to this, but she started writing
it in her voice because she had experienced pregnancy loss
at the time, and that was certainly to answer your question,
(45:07):
that was a lot of reopening of old wounds. So
just kind of taking myself back there and being back
in that ultrasound room and hearing that news and sort
of the like immediate crashing down of the dream of
who this little person would be. I mean, you already
(45:27):
create what they look like, a star sign and what
the age gap is going to be between your children,
and sort of created this little person in your mind,
and then that sort of and just gets ripped away
from you. So I would say for me, the most
challenging part was the reopening of old wounds. And then
something quite profound happened to us, which was that I
(45:52):
had written We did chapter by chapter so Sarah would
tackle She tackled the pregnancy chapter and I tackled pregnancy loss.
Then we've sort of switched chapters and at our own
voice to the other person's chapter, and you know, I
sent her through the chapter and as she was sort
of reading through it, Sarah experienced her own pregnancy lost
(46:17):
and it was so it was such a moment that
just takes your breath away, because the very reason we
wrote this chapter was these moments that were happening in
real time to Sarah, and she was able to read
through the words and feel comforted and held and we
just knew, oh, this is this is the reason why
(46:39):
we wrote this. H Wow. Well, I mean there's a
million girls out there that are going to be so
thankful for this book. So I'm excited to get this
episode out and get this you know, share this book
because yeah, I mean there's it's one of my most
asked questions. But minus our relationships, you know, how do
(47:00):
you how do you deal with miscarriage? You know, because
it's it's not easy and it feels so isolating. So
you know, I appreciate you girls putting your words on
paper and so that all these women and you know
men too, can maybe read to understand and because you
guys go through your own battle as well. Yeah, I
think for us I mean, it's any knowledge that y'all
(47:22):
get helps us because we just want to understand you, right,
Like we're trying to be supportive. We're trying to you know,
kind of manage everything and while also having our own
and you know, separate, independent feelings. But it's hard to
be there for somebody when you don't know what's going on.
And so any kind of literature, any kind of you know,
people opening up about it. If it helps you, it
(47:44):
helps us because then you guys will start talking about it,
we'll understand more. We can be a better support system,
because that's like an ultimate helpless feeling, right like, how
do we make that better? And as your husbands, we
just want to protect and make it better immediately, but
there's no way to do that. Absolutely. I do remember
my husband there being that moment, you know, I was
(48:04):
reading through that chapter of the book and I called Teresa.
I'm like fully crying and I'm telling her everything, and
I was like, you know this, these reading these words
is helping me so much because truly connecting with other
women and hearing their stories, UM was the thing that
I think made me feel the most held through that process.
(48:27):
And UM but I remember there being a moment when
I like, I looked at my husband, who had been like, okay,
if you know, if this, if that happens, everything will
be okay. We'll just try again. And you know, he
has that thing that men have, which is the like,
all right, how do we soldier through? And let let's
fix it? And you know, guys are such doers. And
(48:47):
so in that moment I saw him start off that way.
And then I think the next morning he woke up
and I could tell like it really hit him and
he even said, you know this I had I didn't
know that this would be so hard for me. And
he was like this is um, I'm really sad, and
(49:07):
I was like, me too, I'm really sad too, and
these you know, this chapter that Tracy wrote is really helpful.
And so I went back and actually added a little
thing to the end of that chapter that said, um,
you know, while we were in the editing process, I
experienced pregnancy loss. And this was something that became very
important for us to put on into the world because
(49:30):
it helped me. Let me, I want to ask all
three of you this because even us going through miscarriages
ourselves never really asked like what is it about a
miscarriage feels so like, why does it feel so secretive,
so isolated, isolating as an experience, like for women, I'll
(49:52):
let you girls go first. Well, I just think there's
been this really long held stigma surrounding loss. And we
actually in our book sort of break down the terminology miscarriage,
and even just that word implies that it's the fault
of the mother because she's miss carried her baby, And
(50:15):
the majority of miscarriages or pregnancy losses as we prefer
to use that term, um, happened because of nothing the
mother has done at all. In fact, it's your body
recognizing for the most part that your baby isn't compatible
with life UM. And I just think there was such
(50:36):
shame there has been for such a long time surrounding
the fact that these little babies were being lost, and
no one was talking about it because of that stigma,
because of that feeling surrounding it. But now and noticing
that that narrative is changing, and we're seeing people even saying,
as Sarah recently, even some of like Chrissy Teagan who
(50:58):
has such a large platform, and coming out and saying
this happened to me, and this happened in This was
a second trimester loss. This is a really devastating thing
that that she was going through, and she was so
brave and open and vulnerable to share that. But it
helps you feel less alone. And so I'm really glad
(51:18):
to see that the story is it's shifting and now
there's a community of people out there willing to embrace
you and say, talk about that baby. How did it
feel to be pregnant with that baby? Um? And I
love that. I'm so glad it's headed in that direction.
I do think that people, um, I had a really
(51:40):
hard time knowing how to respond when you tell them
that you had a pregnancy loss. And I think that
part of the reason why it's probably been a sort
of thing that's been kept secret is that you are
looking to not have that uncomfortable moment of being like, oh,
I actually, yeah, I'm not pregnant anymore. I've lost the baby,
(52:02):
and then it's like silent and the person's like, oh
my gosh, this is sorry, but like they don't know
how to communicate with you because they also don't necessarily
maybe they haven't experienced it, so they don't necessarily see
it as a grief like losing someone who was already
earthside right, like that was already here with us. So
but actually it is like there's so many we grieve
(52:24):
in so many different ways, and I do see it
as um pure grief. And I you know, told Terrace
of this, but I had lost my dad when I
was pregnant with my daughter Esme, and Um, I think
that going through that process of grief and understanding what
that looked like and just being such a big thing
(52:46):
at in my life by losing my dad that when
I had my pregnancy loss, like I really felt, I
was like, oh this is this is grief again, and
I need to pay attention to it and I need
to treat it that way. I don't want to put
it aside. I don't want to hide it, like I
need to talk about it. And then I also need
(53:06):
to take care of myself because I understand that this
is a that my body is going to go through
all the stages and you it's not like you can
stop it, but if you allow it to happen, you
can really get through and try to you know, help
yourself heal um. And so you know, I think just
grieving before actually helped me to understand that that's what
(53:28):
this process was going to be, and how you can
be a friend in that it's just to listen and
be there. Sent my friends sent me flowers, and I
was like I was kind of embarrassed at first because
I was like, oh, and is that And and then
I was like why am I embarrassed about that? Like
it's so beautiful that they thought of me and sent
me flowers, and there's nothing to be ashamed of, you know.
(53:50):
And and my other girlfriend like brought Chucklin and wine
over and we sat and cried and laughed and you know.
And so I think that there's a way that you
can really show up for your friends just by being present,
just sending a love note, you know, just in any way.
But um, part of it I think is because of
you're afraid of what someone's reaction might be. How don't
(54:12):
you have anything to add to that? I mean yeah,
I mean for me, it was like when the miscarriages happened,
it was like I have one job to do, and
that's to bring a baby into this world, and like
I'm broken because I can't do that, and like it's
somehow my fault. And that's why I like when we
(54:34):
were discussing having a third baby, and I said, I
I don't want to carry again. Is because I don't
want to be the reason that my baby doesn't come
to term. You know, I want to give it it's
the best shot, because I think that like I'm broken somehow,
like there's and it's just the women just carry that
that shame, even though, like you said, Teresa, it has
everything to do with but I'm like, but but maybe
(54:56):
it is me because I needed more progesterone, right, like
or my lining is and good or whatever it is.
It's like, but I just I don't want to be
the reason that like I just don't feel like I'm
I'm woman enough, or like I just feel like a
broken woman. Yeah. And that's like the common thread that
connects us, I think, and then it sees us through
(55:17):
motherhood too. I mean, that same self critical voice follows
us through the whole journey. UM, And we really try
to address that in our book. Is just liberating ourselves
from that, um, the judgment and and and the shame
and the guilt that comes with this entire beautiful, colorful
(55:38):
journey of parent home. So with all that said, everyone
needs to get this Zen Mama Guide to Finding your
Rhythm in Pregnancy, birth and beyond. Ladies, cannot thank you
enough for such an awesome conversation. Let's all keep that
family unit together. And I just appreciate. I feel more
zen now, So thank you, invalidated, Sure, thank you, ladies,
(56:03):
appreciate guys, thank you. Um. I love those girls because
their mamas is like the perfect title for them. Yeah,
Like they just seemed just so seen. It feels I
feel seen, yeah, and just like just a presence about them,
even via a computer screen. It's just so calming and
(56:25):
confident and open. Um. So no, that's really cool that
they came out with all this stuff and and again
giving women another resource, very useful resource too, you know,
take you along the most empowering adventure that you could
possibly go on. You know. Um, well, this is a
(56:48):
fun episode and I'm excited because next week we have
um two authors coming on. And since you know we
talked about fighting earlier in the episode, their book title
is everyone fights, Everybody fights, so why not do it better? Exactly? Um,
keep fighting the good fight, guys, and we'll see you
(57:10):
next week.
Host
Jana Kramer
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