October 21, 2024 • 51 mins
You might know Marisol Nichols as Hermione Lodge on “Riverdale”, but she’s here to talk to Jana about an important issue: the safety of our children online.
Marisol shares her experience working undercover to catch predators who target children on social media, and we hear the top red flags parents need to watch for when their kids talk to someone online.
Plus, Jana opens up about how a Tik Tok dance opened her eyes to threats on the internet she never considered before.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Wind Down with Janet Kramer and I'm Heeart Radio podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
So this week's podcast, do you guys ever watch Riverdale? No?
Speaker 3 (00:11):
I did not.
Speaker 4 (00:11):
Did I watch? Did I maybe had? I don't know
how many seasons there were? Yeah, but I think I
watched like maybe three or four seasons. Yeah, I don't
remember how many there were, though I stopped at some point.
Speaker 2 (00:22):
I think I auditioned for it, but I can't remember.
Speaker 4 (00:25):
I feel like we've talked about this. I feel like
you did, did I? It was really great?
Speaker 2 (00:29):
Uh?
Speaker 3 (00:30):
Riverdale?
Speaker 4 (00:30):
Yeah? I liked it.
Speaker 2 (00:32):
I yeah, I never I never watched it, but I
heard it was a great show. But we've got Marisol
Nichols coming on, and this is a conversations that started
in our dms. Did you ever end up seeing that
video I posted? Because I never really talked about it.
Speaker 4 (00:48):
I saw your like explanation, but I didn't see the.
Speaker 2 (00:51):
Actual video of actual video. It's cute, but we'll get
into that. But uh, yeah, she works with a nonprofit
organization dedicated to combating human trafficking. So it's going to
be a tough conversation, but a conversation that we all
should obviously learn. And and and here and how it's just.
Speaker 3 (01:15):
It's going to be it's going to be else.
Speaker 2 (01:17):
Yeah, a little education, and also it's going to be tough,
but it's one that needs to be had. So let's
get Marisol on.
Speaker 1 (01:26):
How are you guys good?
Speaker 3 (01:27):
How are you good?
Speaker 1 (01:28):
I'm good. I have my dog on my lap now
we're talking. He is refusing to go anywhere else but
on my.
Speaker 3 (01:36):
Lap, so it doesn't need to go anywhere else.
Speaker 2 (01:39):
Well, we're really excited to have you on and have
a very important conversation. And we were kind of just
talking before the show too, because I remember talking to
David because he was so passionate about, you know, all
of this, and and then he said that you guys
started this podcast and that was I mean, how how
many years was has it been?
Speaker 5 (02:00):
Now?
Speaker 3 (02:00):
Is a two? Three?
Speaker 1 (02:02):
Well? Three? Or actually about three?
Speaker 3 (02:04):
Yeah, okay three years?
Speaker 2 (02:06):
And so you know, I and we were trying to
chat because I'm like, wait it did it start from
a role? Was it something you've just always been passionate about?
Or like, how did you get into the sex trafficking
fighting exactly?
Speaker 1 (02:19):
It's like the question, I've been doing this since twenty twelve,
twenty thirteen. I have my own nonprofit called Foundation for
Slavery fee World, and I dove in kind of pretty
much as soon as I started hearing about the horrific
things that were happening to children, and I was shocked
that it was in this country, like it was always
(02:41):
something that like that wasn't always, but it was. You
would hear whisperings about it back in twenty twelve, twenty thirteen,
and I would I would think, probably like everyone else did, oh,
that's such a horrible thing to happen to kids over there.
Over there was because there's no way this could be happening,
you know, here in America CA. And then I learned
(03:02):
it was here in America, and then I learned it
was in every single city, and then I learned the
extent of it. And it's grown, you know, exponentially since
I started back then. So I dove in and I
ended up. You know, I'm sure you've read that I've
gone undercover and done these stingops in both here in
(03:22):
America and different countries off and on for the last decade.
Speaker 3 (03:26):
How many sting operations have you been on?
Speaker 1 (03:29):
At least a dozen, if not more.
Speaker 3 (03:31):
And have you caught them?
Speaker 2 (03:32):
And have you caught the sex trafficker in each sting
operation that you've done.
Speaker 1 (03:37):
I wish I could say, yes, some of them we
haven't been able to go back and take down yet,
and a lot of them, yes, like that's the payoff.
Like a lot of them is these women and children
being like wait and able to go home and putting
the bad guy behind bars. And it's not like I
(03:58):
can say, oh, hey, I did that one. But you know,
I've saved the newspaper clippings and stuff when they when
they do go down, because it's really nice.
Speaker 2 (04:06):
You know, it's really sad. And maybe I'm just missing it.
But I just don't feel like I hear the stories
of sex traffickers getting caught. I feel like it should
be headline, headline news. Am I missing something or is
it just not?
Speaker 4 (04:18):
I think if for me personally, because it is not
like you by any means but a passion of mine.
I do see those stories, but I am looking for that,
you know, So I am following things, looking at things
for those success stories. So I do see them, but
I don't think that if you otherwise are.
Speaker 2 (04:37):
Hearing a mainstream media, I've not seen them.
Speaker 1 (04:41):
When you've got like a diddy. Yes, that's me, sure, sure, yeah,
But when it's it's so prevalent, you would think you'd
be hearing about it. Oh And like she said, like,
once you do start hearing about this and educating yourself,
you tend to see it everywhere. But before that, it's
(05:01):
just sort of I don't know what it is. I
don't know if it's a protective mechanism, but you just
kind of it's a hard thing to confront.
Speaker 2 (05:08):
Yeah, well, I think what's interesting too. And something that
you said was, we think that it's happening everywhere else,
and up until a couple of years ago, that's what
my thought process was. I truly was like, oh, this
just happens in you know, these smaller countries or countries
that are far away. There's no way that happens here.
And then you realize it's a whate hundred and fifty something.
(05:29):
How much money is this business?
Speaker 1 (05:31):
One hundred and fifty billion, one.
Speaker 2 (05:32):
Hundred and fifty billion dollar business. I'm like here here
in the United States, Like, that's right, that's the number
for the United States.
Speaker 1 (05:40):
It's percent of all women and children that are rescued
in the United States from sex trafficking or American citizens.
Speaker 2 (05:46):
Like, that's insane, that's I mean, that's just like, how
were people not like eyes wide open on that.
Speaker 1 (05:53):
I think everyone's sort of still catching up to it, Jane.
I think most people are still like, what do you
I mean, this happens here? Like even police departments in
this country are still catching up to it. You know.
One of my dear dear friends started the trafficking department
here in the LAPD and he goes around the whole
all around the United States, lecturing and talking to other
(06:14):
police departments, educating them and teaching them how to do
this and what to look for. Because people are still
kind of playing catch up. You know, for the longest time,
we thought, oh that girl on the street is there
willingly you didn't know, Oh she's being controlled by someone
that you don't see.
Speaker 5 (06:34):
Tell us is there something that you and I know
this Like, I'm so overwhelmed by the topic. I think
I don't even know what specifically to ask you. There's
like a couple of things I have pinned in my brain.
But is there something that is like ultra red flag
everyone could see that we just choose not to see.
When say, you're at a mall or you're on a
(06:54):
street or whatever.
Speaker 1 (06:57):
That's a great question because there's so many different tactics
these guys use. My main number one, major, major thing
is Instagram, meta, Facebook apps, anywhere where these predators can
contact a child, and I look for who's following. Okay,
(07:18):
so there's a young girl, she's twelve or thirteen, she's posting,
you know, I don't know her pictures that she drew,
and you'll see immediately like hundreds and hundreds of men
immediately following her. So looking in the dms, looking in
the messages on roadblocks or minecraft or anywhere really where
they can contact kids. Another red flag would be, you know,
(07:42):
something that's more obvious that maybe a mother would just
see going to Like I'm the hawk, I'm the one
who will go to a park where my kid may
be playing at and then I'm looking for all the
men that are at the park, and do they have kids,
are they talking to kids? Is there a guy in
a car idling which happens all the time, just watching
the kids play? So any any like even gymnastics. My
(08:04):
daughter was in a gymnastics class and I was looking
at the men in the audience just you know, they're observing.
And then when the class ended, I was like, oh,
half these men are not half. I shouldn't say that.
Some of these men aren't walking home with any kids,
aren't leaving with any kids. They're just they're observing.
Speaker 5 (08:23):
And these are areas that I'd assume you're in safer
areas safer in air quotes like it's not like you're
I just want to, like, I guess expand our brains
in the way that like this is quite literally everywhere.
Speaker 4 (08:34):
Christen, you do know, sorry, but you know it's one
of the largest hubs is here.
Speaker 2 (08:39):
Yeah, Brent with Tennessee, which is rich and spring into
spring Hill.
Speaker 4 (08:43):
Because of I sixty five. It's an easy out.
Speaker 1 (08:45):
Everywhere, everywhere everywhere in the United States.
Speaker 3 (08:49):
How do you know what you know and be a mom?
Speaker 5 (08:52):
I think that's where like my throat is like literally closing,
Like I was reading through everything last night and I'm
just like, I just want to cry and I feel
helpless and it feels huge and unstoppable, and I hate
that feeling.
Speaker 1 (09:03):
I'm sorry, as I know, it's just real. It's why
I started, you know, my nonprofits, why I started the podcast,
It's why I started going undercover because it was so overwhelming.
To be honest, I just couldn't sleep. I was like,
I don't know how to do this. Once you know,
you can't unknow I can't pretend that I don't know
anymore that these things are happening, or once I've seen stuff,
(09:25):
I can't pretend I haven't seen it. So I couldn't sleep.
And so the only way that I could come to
terms with it was like, Okay, I have to find
something that I can do about this. What is needed?
Where can I help the most? And by diving in
and learning as much as I could, and then with
the audience that was kind of built in from Riverdale,
I was like, okay, let me talk about this. Let me.
(09:48):
Let me speak directly to teenagers and directly to moms
and dads and be like, hey, guys, this is what's happening.
This is what you can do to protect your kid
or hey, teen that person that you're talking to the
guess what that could not be. That's not them, that's
not them. Especially with AI.
Speaker 3 (10:07):
Remind me how old your daughter is.
Speaker 1 (10:09):
Well, now she's sixteen, but I started this when she
was six.
Speaker 2 (10:13):
Did you let her have what was your journey with
letting her be on social media? Did you let her
have it? Did you or did you ever see it? Like?
Speaker 3 (10:21):
What is? What has that journey? And now that she's sixteen.
Speaker 1 (10:24):
So she still doesn't have an Instagram account and not
because she she's just like no, she's like no, But
it was it was a bit I had to gently
explain because I don't want to scare my kid, and
how do you explain this? So I would sort of go, look,
I go the internet. I would draw a picture and
(10:44):
I go, you can contact like all of these people.
And I did like a thousand dots, right, all of
these people and any of them can talk to you.
And then I used like a red pen and I
was like that this many people are bad guys and
they look like the good guy and you can't tell
and so you have to be very, very careful. And
(11:05):
then I'm going to tell you what to look for
bad guys. But I want to know how old you are.
The bad guys are going to tell you you're pretty, You're one.
They're gonna be so nice and so interested. They're going
to ask you where do you live? Where do you
go to school? They're going to ask personal questions. So
at first my daughter would go, oh, I just say
(11:26):
Venus or I say Canada, or I say this, And
then now I'm like, let's just not we don't even
talk to those guys. And I explained to her, I go, look,
you're going to run into this. It's not everybody out there.
And I go and I lecture at high schools, and
I lecture at where kids are to explain like, it's
gonna it's there no matter what, but if you know
(11:49):
what to look for and you know what not to
give away, and that these guys can pretend to be anyone.
And I show people how easy it is to make
a fake profile and put a fake kid's face, and
now you're that kid, and you're talking like that kid,
because that's what I do in the stints. I pretend
to be kid. It's it's just kind of like, do
(12:09):
you see the difference, And so she's very I had
to educate her because there was no way to avoid it.
There's literally no way. You're never gonna unless you never
let your kid online, which is I just don't. I
don't think that's real. So I had to educate her.
And then as she got older, I told her more
and more and more, you know, but not not. It's
(12:32):
a fine line because you don't want to freak out
your kid.
Speaker 2 (12:35):
Hmm yeah, and you also want like, you know, Catherine
has older children, and you know, she's like, my kids
talk through Snapchat, like that's the new generation, Like that's
not something. So I'm going to be obviously leaning on
her when you know, my kids get older. But you
knew she's got high schooler and middle schooler. So it's
like that world has got to be so tricky to
navigate well.
Speaker 4 (12:54):
And I think that every parent parents differently when it
comes to that. I know, for me personally, we have
those toscussions a lot. I have all their passwords, I
go through their dms to make sure they're not talking
to anybody they shouldn't. Snapchat is a new one for us.
I was very anti snapchat until lately, but they do
all communicate via Snapchat, which has been you know. But
(13:17):
I just think everyone navigates that differently, and I agree
with you that you cannot avoid it and it's a
conversation that has to be had, so just everybody has
to navigate that differently.
Speaker 1 (13:28):
One of the things that I also did because My
daughter would do this thing when we were out in public,
like let's say we were at like an outdoor mall
or something, and she would love to run ahead, and
I was like absolute, or she would love to like
I want to be friends with this, I want to
go here, that kind of thing. So I very gently
because what I was saying didn't get through. I had
(13:49):
to explain to her. I go, look, there's like I said,
there's very few bad guys, but they like, they go
after kids, and then these kids are missing, and we
don't want that to happen, and it wasn't real to her.
It was like, no, don't know. So finally I was like, okay, fine.
As she got older, I was like, let me explain
this to you, and I went on, there's the National
Center for Missing and Exploited Children, right, they're the milk
carton guys. So and I would go look, let's look
(14:12):
at and I would show all the missing kids posters
and then it was real. And then she was like, Okay,
my mom's not making this up. My mom's not being
you know, exaggerating or anything like that. And she finally
got it, and now she educates other kids of what
to look for and actually got one of her friends
off of a chat with the predator.
Speaker 2 (14:34):
When did this become the because again my naiveness goes, well,
the drug industry, that was what the big industry was.
When did it switch to children?
Speaker 1 (14:45):
It's a great again, a great question. It's been gradual.
But as the internet sort of as the internet and
other things became more available to everyone, this the child
thing kind of grew. And then not to do a
whole comment on society, but we kind of sexualized children.
(15:08):
We kind of do. It's like you know, the hot er,
all this in music and you see you see it, right,
So along around two thousand, two thousand and four, two
thousand and five, this whole thing started to started to
take off. Because you didn't hear about this in the
nineties eighties.
Speaker 3 (15:25):
Well that's it.
Speaker 2 (15:25):
And I was also curious statistically what the stats are
between missing kids in the nineties versus missing kids today,
Like what that's what that stat looks like, because that'd
be an interesting stat It's huge.
Speaker 1 (15:36):
I mean, it's the numbers between just people in modern
day slavery overall have doubled in the last decade, like doubled.
I remember when it was it was I think it
was twelve or thirteen million worldwide, I think back in
two thousand and one, and now it is thirty the
latest numbers of thirty seven million people worldwide? Why and
(16:01):
the sex trade? I believe the number is six point
six million women and children?
Speaker 2 (16:18):
Do you know the number of girls or women being
Is it primarily? I just want to say, is that
is that statistically right that it's mostly just women? Or
is there also a percentage of the boys And.
Speaker 1 (16:29):
There's a small percentage of boys for sure, it's not
just exclusively, but the majority is women and children, but
it is do people as well?
Speaker 3 (16:38):
So what is the percentage of.
Speaker 2 (16:40):
The kids being trafficked overseas being brought here? And then
is are the American kids that are being trafficked? Are
they going overseas too? Like? What is the like when
you've seen in your what you've been doing? Like what
what does that even look like? Because again, this is
the only reference that I have that's been out there,
(17:03):
you know, which got pretty much torn to shreds with
sound of freedom with what they shared. And I don't know,
I've I've heard kind of like people having difference of opinions,
but that was the first thing where I was like,
oh wow, I'm like, is there a truth in all this?
Speaker 1 (17:19):
And yeah, it was very interesting to watch who was
doing the tearing. That was interesting to me. I was like, wow,
you really have a you're going after this like very
Why is what I was exactly why does this bother
you so much?
Speaker 3 (17:35):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (17:36):
Period? Yeah, like period. It's this has been an issue
for it, Like the United Nations has been doing this forever.
It was Barack Obama when he was president, the coin
the term modern day slavery. This has been going on.
It's not a it's not a Republican issue, it's not
a democratic issue. It's the one issue that both sides
(17:56):
actually agree on. Period. It's kids, right. It has nothing
to do with the political climate today, even though it's
being sort of turned into that. Right. But to answer
your question about a decade ago, it was the United
States was not on the list of countries that people
(18:19):
traveled to for sex with kids. It's called sex tourism, right,
And there's a whole list of countries. I know.
Speaker 3 (18:26):
Sorry, so let's just say I'm just say it.
Speaker 1 (18:28):
Used to be countries that you always heard like Thailand,
you knew about Highland the Philippines, Mexico, Dominican Republic, places
like that. The United States is now not only on
that list, but high on that list. So a decade ago,
if you were a kid taken, essentially you would be
(18:49):
shipped off to one of those countries because it was easier.
Now that there's not really a need to bring in
supply for lack of a better word, from other countries
into America because you've got the supply and the demand
right here period. You've got it and the majority of
(19:11):
kids and you don't And anyone who's listening to this, like,
just look this up. Please, don't just base it on
what I'm saying. Do your own research. You can look
it up. But in America it's foster care children or
the number one foster care children and runaways are number one, period.
And they're picked up by a trafficker, and their traffic
through hotel rooms, hotel rooms and businesses pretending to be businesses,
(19:33):
and they're traveled all along the corridors want to be mentioned.
Speaker 2 (19:37):
And they're drugged, threatened, yes, fully, all of yeah.
Speaker 1 (19:41):
Fully, And I hate to say it, but I'm like,
because it's such a horrific and unconscionable thing to imagine.
I was like, oh my god, thank god they're drugged,
because I can't imagine going through something like that as
a kid without something to numb you, something to shield you,
(20:04):
because it's it's un it's unthinkable. Now. At the same time,
the good news is that there's a lot, a lot,
a lot of organizations doing things about this and rescuing
children or rehabilitating women and children. And there isn't one
sort of state government that I've seen that's not doing
something about this, that isn't like, Okay, great, we have organizations,
(20:26):
we have money set aside, we have laws being put
in trying to tackle this. So that's the good upside
of this is that once people do hear about it,
they want to help.
Speaker 2 (20:37):
Yeah, I mean like, how can we help? Well, how
can we go on? I'm like, I want to go
into stings. How do we how do I help find these?
Like what can we do? And on that side of things.
Speaker 1 (20:45):
Like exactly, I mean educating people about it. You have
a giant audience. It's that's number one, right because if
people don't know about it, people can't do anything about it.
And I always say, the good people the moms, the
people that are not criminals, the people that don't think
like this, don't know about these things, but they're the
exact people that need to know about it because nothing
(21:07):
will happen about it. Nothing will happen, nothing will be
done about it unless good people know about it. So
that's number one is education and awareness. The sound of freedom.
There's another movie that I'm an ambassador of called City
of Dreams. Yeah, that really focuses on just Los Angeles
and just the people that are labor trafficked in Los Angeles,
(21:31):
which is a case of bringing in cheap labor from
other countries, which also fully happens. It fully happens. So
that's another movie that's out there that's being, you know,
a good educational tool. Secondly, you don't have to reinvent
the wheel. There are already organizations doing things about this, right,
(21:51):
so obviously I have one. I'm always like, please donate.
We have a whole mail campaign. We have a whole
educational campaign that will put together for junior high kids,
high school and college. Because it keeps going right and
then even your local area.
Speaker 2 (22:06):
What is that can you can you talk about that foundation?
Just so that what we can all.
Speaker 1 (22:10):
Yeah. So it's called Slavery Free World. I Foundation for
a Slavery Free World, and I named it that way
because I wanted the I wanted the end product. I
wanted this idea of modern day slavery and trafficking to
be something that we read about in the history books
that's just done right that we go I didn't even know,
oh my god, and it's done, not something that we
(22:31):
have to deal with on a daily basis. So my
website is called Slavery Freeworld dot org and we do
a lot. In addition to me going undercover when I
can with different law enforcement, my main thing is trying
to educate preventative because that's what I care about more
than anything, is preventing any of this happening in the
first place. So the podcast where I Reach My My,
(22:55):
you know, a very good audience, which I'm very proud of,
but also going face to face with kids. I can't
be everywhere in every school at all times, but we're
putting together something that we can put into schools that
sort of like add a water and mix. Here's the
data here. It is geared down to a junior high kid.
This is what a junior high kid or an elementary's
kid should look for. This is how to protect yourself
(23:18):
without overwhelming and making every single person a bad guy,
because you don't want that. And then okay, hi, high school, Okay, college,
this is what you have to be aware of because
and the Internet now is the new white van. You know,
growing up, it was like, look for the white van. Sure,
the white van, it exists, but it's the Internet now
(23:38):
that's the right van.
Speaker 2 (23:40):
Yeah, and that's kind of where I want to transition
to because obviously this conversation came about after I posted
that video of my daughter. Yes, for those that didn't
see it, I'd posted a photo video of us doing
this cute little TikTok dance. My daughter that morning we
were saying we were going to do yoga and then
we were going to go grocery shopping and then get
(24:00):
some Halloween decorations, and we were doing this. So she
comes down, you know, in her little sportspra and little shorts,
and I again thought nothing of it, because like she
likes to be in the gym while I'm working out
and just stretching, and we love dancing. And my almost
one year old little boy is just loves to dance
as well, and so I was like, oh, we should
do this cute little TikTok dance and so I then
(24:22):
post it. She was wearing her sports bra and her shorts.
I again just thought nothing of it, and then I
started to see comments, and you know, I when it
came to the thing of the AI and like, I
don't know anything. I don't know what AI can do.
I because I didn't look at it, and I was like, wow,
people are like sexualizing my daughter. I don't understand. And
(24:43):
that was that kind of blew me away. But then
they're like protector.
Speaker 3 (24:47):
I'm like what.
Speaker 2 (24:48):
At first, I was a little like this is more
than a bathing suit. I don't understand, Like this was
a sweet little video I did with my daughter, and
I at first was a little defensive when I was
talking about it to my husband, but then when I
texted David, I was like, Hey, you know this world,
and people are saying that they could take her cute
little dancing, change her face or use her face and
(25:09):
then like AI into a sexual video. If that is
the case, please tell me and I will take it down.
Like I trust your opinion, because you know this world.
I just didn't and I didn't think that that could
be a possibility. And he was like, I would advise
to take it down. You should talk to Marisol, you know,
and this is why. And I was like all right,
and then I was like delete immediately. And then I
just felt terrible because I'm like, well, I didn't I
(25:30):
didn't know. And then I'm like, you know, going through
all the things in my brain, and then I'm like, gosh,
I posted a video of her in her swimsuit at
the pool, and then I'm like, this is so sad
that we even have to think about this. I'm like,
why can't I just show a beautiful backyard? And then like,
I know, you posted things, you know, with your daughter
in a bathing suit, and I'm like what, It's just
like I'm not saying that to you either, but I'm
(25:52):
just like it's just so sad that I'm like, we
can't just post photos of our family without being like, oh,
the Internet's going to take this and have a heyday
with it. But also I don't know the risks, so
what are they?
Speaker 1 (26:02):
So I mean, AI is a whole other tool that
is like a snowball rolling downhill that's growing and growing
and growing uncontrolled right now, period and law like, legally
and politically, everyone's again trying to play catch up with
this thing because this is something brand new that we've
(26:22):
never had to deal with. But yes, to answer your question, yes,
they can take an image of anybody. They're called deep fakes.
You may have heard of deep fakes, right, And they
do it with celebrities, but they can do it with anybody.
And they'll put your face on a naked body and
put it together and you will never, ever, ever, ever know.
It's very scary and bad actors are always going to
(26:45):
take technology and twist it and use it for criminal
and nefarious means. Now there's I work a lot with Meta,
right I've actually they're doing some really good things right now.
And one of the things that they are doing is
they made it so that all child accounts immediately on
(27:05):
Instagram and Facebook are immediately private no matter what by default,
which means that strangers cannot just DM them, strangers cannot
just follow them. You have to approve access and improve
access for these guys to have access to your kids.
So if your kid is posting something, it's controlled as
(27:28):
opposed to just out there in the world. But again
you should know and as parents, what these guys are
looking for is they're looking for vulnerable children. They're looking
for kids that are like that are insecure, they come
from a troubled home, that are easy targets, right, kids
that are posting things like, you know, f my parents,
(27:49):
so I hate my mother, or oh my god, they
grounded me again? And sexually sexual kids. You know, we
all know kids like this. Those are the kids that
they're looking for. They're looking for vulnerable kids. So even
in life, I always use this example to my daughter.
There's let's say five girls walking down the street and
(28:11):
one guy who's a bad guy. I say, hey, you
guys are so pretty. If four of the girls are
you know, hey f you? Or get away from me
or where it all great? The one kid that's thank you,
that's their target. They're looking for vulnerable, easy kids. So
(28:35):
again this is speaking from the education point of view
and how to talk to your own kids and what
you're posting. But Janna, in the case of you, I
agree with you. It's heartbreaking that you can't just post
a picture of your kid Like I went back and
I deleted most of my pictures and rain my daughter.
I don't post anything of her now as her age
(28:56):
because I also know I'm a target. So I'll post
something of her being younger. Here she was, I'm so
happy of you. You're sixteen years old. Here's a baby
pic kind of thing. Because we have to think with
we have to think like these guys think, think how
bad guys think, and how they could twist something. And
(29:17):
then it's up to each individual if you want to
you know what you want to put out there and
what you don't.
Speaker 4 (29:24):
Sure.
Speaker 1 (29:25):
I know some parents that are like, sure, fine, I
don't care, You're going to do it anyway. I'm proud
of my kids and I'm going to celebrate this moment.
Speaker 3 (29:31):
Well that's where I'm and I'll let you.
Speaker 2 (29:33):
I know you. I know you've got something that you
want to say too. But like there was a for me.
It's like I don't want to not not share my
family because that is a part of I love sharing.
But I also know that now I can be a
little bit more aware of what I share right to protect.
Speaker 4 (29:50):
But sure, Well I had a question about the meta stuff.
So they're going to now make kids automatically private, yes,
which just so we're clear, my kids cannot have social
media that is public. It has always been private. Yes,
that is rule number one.
Speaker 3 (30:04):
But I hope you know there's no shame either way.
Speaker 4 (30:06):
Like I mean, I've gotten it from some people on
here because I've open about that my kids do have
social media. People like or don't like that I control it.
You know they have. They all have opinions, which is
everyone has an opinion. That's fine, but just so everyone
knows they are private. It is interesting to me to
hear that. I love that. But can they change it
(30:28):
to public?
Speaker 1 (30:30):
Okay, So there's two things coming out, So that's a
great question. So by default, every kid's account is now private.
They rolled that out. I'm working with them on legislation that.
In fact, they just spoke about it in the South
Dakota Congress. They're going to state to state the state
and them federally. But what they what met US is
behind right now is making it controllable. Also at the
(30:53):
app store, So what does that mean? So that means
that when you buy a phone for your kid and
you download the software to start that phone from the
app store, you as a parent, right there go, this
is a phone for a twelve year old kid.
Speaker 3 (31:11):
Oh that's cool.
Speaker 1 (31:12):
I know. So that automatically everything that is on that
phone is known that it's for a kid, So any
every single app, every single thing, every single setting, because
who parents know how to do that right and know
how to go into every single app and set the
safety settings and set the privacy settings. It's impossible, and
they're constantly changing. So it's by default that everything would
(31:36):
all automatically be registered as a kid. And then anytime
your kid tries to change anything, download something, you as
a parent get a notification and you can approve or
not approve. And it's something that I really really believe
in because I think it's twofold, do you know what
I mean? It's if we can stop it at the source,
(31:59):
so that the phone, the advice itself is registered as
a kid. That is something that I think is going
to be very beneficial, especially as a parent and how
everything's changing and there's new apps and Snapchat and discord
and all of these different things. Can we just have
one sort of stable thing that everyone just knows and
does and it's automatic and I don't have to think
(32:19):
about it.
Speaker 2 (32:33):
I'm such a This is where I go cynical, though,
is I'm like, it's controlled by someone probably in the
government that will change it or that can do loopholes
around it. I don't know where I just get or
corruption twins yeah where. I'm just like it's corrupt and
they'll find a way to make more money.
Speaker 3 (32:50):
Like it may.
Speaker 5 (32:50):
It gave me a deep breath that you said you're
working with Meta. I was like, okay, okay, I mean
I think I might have taken one breath since you've
started talking, because I'm just like.
Speaker 2 (32:59):
Spyraling I do a life check on your I'm just
this is like.
Speaker 3 (33:02):
My worst nightmare. Like it makes me emotional.
Speaker 1 (33:04):
I don't yeah, it's scary, mind too.
Speaker 3 (33:07):
It's wild.
Speaker 5 (33:08):
That's so I have first once I can emotionally get
myself together. It's just it's such a big, crazy world
and it makes me so anxious as a mom. I mean,
I've got beautiful babies. We all want to share our
kids are listen and not to like be funny, but
like literally it's how I don't have to answer the
phone for a lot of people, you know, because like
(33:28):
they checked in on Facebook and we can keep rolling,
Like I don't have to send pictures out to the
group or all the things, but it's so wildly overwhelming
because it's like I don't take my kids to target,
I don't take my kids to the mall.
Speaker 3 (33:40):
I don't want to be that mom, but I am
that mom.
Speaker 5 (33:43):
Like it's like the I have to kind of almost
learn at a real slow pace because I digest it
so much into my DNA that I feel like I
can't sleep. So one, I want to just commend you
for the way that you're built, because I don't. I mean,
it's just heroic to me what you're up to. But two,
this is more of like a personal question how do
(34:04):
you know what you know?
Speaker 3 (34:06):
Like how do you.
Speaker 5 (34:07):
Come home from being like in a sting operation and
then just like wash your face and go to sleep
Because I don't, So I don't know how you're processing this,
Like you're still just a human and a mom. You
know this is really big, heavy, important work that you're doing.
Speaker 2 (34:24):
It.
Speaker 1 (34:26):
I'm it's overwhelming. I don't come home and wash my
face and just go to bed. I come home and
it takes me like a week to decompress to start
seeing people as normal.
Speaker 3 (34:39):
Yeah, like I hate everyone right now. For you. You know,
it's a lot.
Speaker 1 (34:44):
It messes me up. It takes a toll, and so
I dive in and I dive out because otherwise I
can't function, And so I have to constantly remind myself
and look around and go, Okay, it's not everybody, it's
not every man. It's not like go I go if
(35:05):
I go to like, let's say when my child was younger,
and I would go to a park, and I'd be like,
I'd look at all the kids and I'd go, Okay, well,
all of these kids are perfectly fine. None of these
kids are being taken. Okay, I'll go to a high school. Okay,
all of these kids are doing well. The majority of
these kids are never nothing bad is ever going to
happen to them, And I constantly have to look at
(35:27):
and have to like train myself to really look and
observe from myself. Okay, the majority of people, I think
eighty percent of people are still very good and care
very much about this issue, and including men. And then
there's just the twenty percent that are the bad actors
(35:50):
that you have to protect yourself against. But otherwise I
could never live my life, my kid could never live
their lives. And it's a it's a it's a balance,
but it still is the majority. It's still good.
Speaker 5 (36:07):
Yeah, I needed that sentence from you selfishly, just because
I default to everyone's a creep. I mean, they would
probably tell you I'm the psychopath here, like I'm a
psych I mean we homeschool, we do, and not to
keep them in a bubble all the way, all the way,
but a lot of that reasoning is for me just
what they're exposed to. I feel like kids, even and
(36:27):
all things, are exposed way too fast, way too soon.
Speaker 3 (36:30):
They don't get a chance to be kids anymore.
Speaker 2 (36:32):
Like and we've just I think some passionate environment though,
like you know what I mean, Like in cat situation,
their kids, you know, kids got social media earlier because
her kids were hanging on older people, you know, like
with the sports and stuff like that. So it's like,
you know, yeah, it's navigate it.
Speaker 3 (36:48):
You know what I mean?
Speaker 4 (36:49):
Like, well, yeah, and I think it's a lot of
its conversation but also kind of going back to what
y'all were saying and not being able to sleep, I
think that touches on a lot of not that people
don't know that this is going on. I have a
lot of moms that I've tried to talk to about this.
The problem is it is so overwhelming they put their
heads in the sand. I'm just going to be frank.
(37:09):
It is actually very frustrating for me because I'm like,
you have to be aware of this, especially if they're
on social media, especially if they're online. And I get
that it's overwhelming. And I've had people tell me that
they're like, if I go down that rabbit hole, my
anxiety will be so high. And I understand that, and
I think it's figuring out how to go in and
(37:31):
go out and to be able to educate yourself. You've
done it, but not control your life. And it's not easy.
I mean, I understand that. Again, I've had lots of
conversations with moms who feel that way, but then they
just go, I can't, I can't handle it.
Speaker 5 (37:43):
We're really close with the family that's like that, and
I can't. I can't know. And kids are on roadblocks
and all the things, and I've I know, same face,
and I've had to have you know, the kids wear
less clothes and I've had to say to my daughter,
understand that you would love to wear that crop top,
and I said, there's I'm just I have to. She's eight,
(38:05):
so you know, they're still young, and I'm going, I'm
not going to go in the deep deep dive, but
I've had to say that. I was like, there is
something something called perception, and I need to help you
understand what perception could be if you're wearing something like
this or something like that. Like, but it is just
crazy that they're eight and we're having to talk about this.
Speaker 2 (38:24):
The reason my daughter thought I was okay to wear
sports Burrow around the house was because I wear sports
Borrow on the house. So like call myself out, like
I'm not. That's an example that I'm not really putting
my best foot forward with that. Now, would I ever
let her go out in public wearing a sports prop.
Speaker 3 (38:38):
No, I didn't.
Speaker 2 (38:38):
Obviously made her put her shirt off, but then I
posted it to too milliy people like.
Speaker 5 (38:42):
I was like, I don't think anybody is nailing it,
by the way, and I don't think none of us
are not nailing it, and I think we're all the
reason to me for women that like really have their
like pulse on it, I think it's just so overwhelming.
Speaker 3 (38:56):
It's like where do we start?
Speaker 4 (38:57):
Well, And I was going to say, I mean, and
this is hard for me because my daughters a cheerleader
who basically lives in a sports bra. R you know,
so I want to like throw that in there. I mean,
there are definitely things that are I just posted my
daughter doing a tumbling pass last night in a sports bra.
She is in it ninety nine percent of the time.
So I am aware of the AI part of this.
I am this close to taking my Instagram but I'm nobody.
(39:21):
I am this close to taking it back to the
people I know and making it private because I couldn't
care less about a following, you know, I am. I
think that that's where my path is going because I
do want to share that. I want to share that
she got a new skill last night. I want to
you know whatever. So I think that things will be
changing in our household anyway in that sense. But having
said that, I hate to hear you say that that
(39:44):
was a bad mom move on you because you wear
a sports bra to work out. That's not the way
to approach this, in my opinion, I don't think that.
Speaker 3 (39:53):
But I d saying that for her, for her to
come down in a sports.
Speaker 4 (39:56):
Bra, I don't. I don't what is wrong with the
sports bra. Understand showing it to the world, but what
is wrong with her wearing a sports bra.
Speaker 5 (40:04):
That's where I'm also like the over sexualization of all
of us, Like we're women, we are I If I
have an AB, I'm wearing a sports bra so that
you can see it because I'm going to be so proud.
Speaker 4 (40:16):
And I'm never don't right.
Speaker 1 (40:21):
As a mom after you have kids, if you and
you have abs, I'm sorry. I'm like, absolutely, I'm not
twenty thank you.
Speaker 3 (40:30):
You are naked all the time.
Speaker 1 (40:32):
But we're adults. It's a thing we're not putting. I'm assuming.
Like to me, it's about the intention behind the photo.
Like two people could could post the same outfit and
they could be similar age, and one could be like
posting the outfit because it's like this is only book
when I have sex, and the other one could be
(40:53):
posting the same outfit. That's like, look at me proud.
It's the intention, I think, and the flow and what
you're trying to communicate, you know.
Speaker 4 (41:03):
Yeah, if you look at these teens, like you're saying,
the ones that are more vulnerable, the ones, there is
a difference, I'm sorry, than my daughter's account and the
daughter who's doing this. It's just doesn't necessarily make it
right or wrong. But there's a difference.
Speaker 2 (41:18):
Yeah, I'm like, you're literally wanting, you're asking for older
men to comment on your page, and like it's like
it's painful. As someone close to this person, I'm like, like,
you know, young, and it's just you know, it's trying
to help teach, but just had a tough upbringing and
you know, so it's been it's been hard.
Speaker 1 (41:37):
I think that I understand. I have friends that don't
want to hear about it. I have friends that are like,
I don't know how you do it. I don't want
to know. I don't to know. And then literally that
same friend something happened with her young son who she
thought would never ever, ever, ever happen, and he was
talking to what he thought was another fifteen year old
girl on Instagram on DM and sure enough, this girl
(42:03):
had sent an uber to him at midnight convinced him
to sneak out of his house and she caught him,
thank god, caught him and called me immediately, and I
put her in touch with different law enforcement in that
town and whereas and where the boy was headed, who
didn't even know where he was going these things. I
think when you know what to look for, when you've
(42:28):
gotten passed and through the horror of it and you're like, okay,
what can I do about it, it becomes less overwhelming
because it's specific. It's not everyone, it's not every communication,
it's not every single thing, and you know nothing about
it and it's all overwhelming. It's very specific. You look
(42:48):
for this, this, this, this. You know what to look for,
and so will your kids. And those conversations and that
education I think is empowered. Not you do have to
get through the confront of it, but on the other side,
it's a lot easier to control once you know what
(43:09):
to look for and you know how to protect yourself
and you know how to protect your friends.
Speaker 2 (43:12):
What are the ages that it's again statistically, I know
it's a bunch, but what does the age range?
Speaker 1 (43:19):
It depends on specifically for what thing. So it's as
young as an eight year old chatting right and somebody
pretending to be another kid and show me or like,
it depends on what they're going for. If they're going
for I need a video or picture of a young
girl showing me her body. That can range from anywhere
(43:42):
from eight years old up. If they're going for convincing
a kid to sneak out to go do something nefarious
with them, right, that happens. That happens. I have a
whole episode on my podcast with the sheriff out of Michigan.
The guy who's traveling straight state doing this. That's your
(44:02):
twelve year old, your thirteen year old, your fourteen year old.
And then it also depends on if it's a boy. Right,
So mom's out there that have boys, think, Okay, I
don't have to worry about that. Well, with boys, what
they're doing, it's a fifteen year old, sixteen year old,
seventeen year old boy who's you know, they're going through
hormonal changes. Let's just say it is what it is,
and they're they're looking for stuff, right, and so with that,
(44:27):
that'll be your your AI. That'll be your man pretending
to be a girl contacting the sun and sending what's
supposed to be a naked video or naked picture, convincing
the boy to do the same thing. And then they've
got them, and then it's it so. And then if
(44:47):
it's plain old trafficking and your own thing, that's a
little bit older fourteen on up if that makes sense
at least in America. Right, this is what we're looking
at in America.
Speaker 3 (45:01):
That's good to know.
Speaker 2 (45:03):
I have a question, and again this might be a
political question. You can also pass with it because obviously
you're an extremely successful actress. You were on obviously Riverdale.
Have you seen pushback from the industry because of what
you're doing?
Speaker 3 (45:19):
Would you like to pass? You can also pass.
Speaker 1 (45:21):
I just know it's okay.
Speaker 2 (45:22):
It's interesting to me because I just feel like when
someone even scripts that people are wanting to make scripted,
there there's pushback on it in this world.
Speaker 1 (45:33):
Yes, So you know, I have a movie that we're doing.
It started out as a TV show based on my
life and as an undercover operative and an actress and
a mom. And I will tell you that when we pitched,
and we pitched everybody in town. We pitched, you know,
Natsille Likes and m and Apple and everyone Fox, everyone,
(45:55):
And in the rooms people would be crying, like literally,
and every individual that I would meet would be like,
oh my god, we have to this is incredible. Almost
every I can always tell the one that's like uncomfortable,
he doesn't want to hear, and I'm like, oh, I
see where you're up to. Got it? You can tell,
(46:16):
you can always tell. Unfortunately, every single solitary entity though
passed this is too dark, we don't want to And
this is right before Sound of Freedom, which is what
I liked about Sound of Freedom was that it proved
that people wanted to know about this, that that this is.
(46:37):
People do need to know. This can't be something that's
just in the dark.
Speaker 2 (46:41):
But yet so many people wrote that it's all just
a bunch of bullshit and that it wasn't That's not true.
Speaker 1 (46:46):
Look at who was writing that, right, Look, I mean.
Speaker 4 (46:49):
I yeah, why did it become a political thing? I
can write? I can never understand that.
Speaker 3 (46:53):
I'm like, how are why are we? Yeah?
Speaker 2 (46:55):
But anyways, but yes too so so that was passed upon.
Speaker 1 (46:58):
That was all passed upon. It Now we're doing it,
I think, for lifetime and doing it as a movie,
which makes me very very happy because there are now
and because of Sound of Freedom, of these other movies
and individuals in these positions will make these decisions. They
do want to tell this, they do want people to know,
they do want to talk about it. So it's very interesting.
(47:19):
Janet your question because Hollywood as an entity, yes, there's
pushback individuals within there, there isn't and there's no I
want to know, please tell us what can we do
about this? And so it always gives me hope because
when I meet people individually, they do care.
Speaker 2 (47:39):
It's just the boss that's paying the bills that's going
to end up saying.
Speaker 1 (47:42):
Whoever's behind that whole thing. There's definitely a h on
it as far as I run across, run across. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (47:51):
Yeah, Well, Marisol, thank you for coming on. I mean,
you know, there's having me many questions. I you know,
would want to ask about what I think. You know,
listeners want hear about Riverdale, but honest, this is what
I want to listen to. And so, you know, just
thank you for coming on and spreading not only awareness
but teaching and everything that you're doing. So can you
(48:13):
please let our listeners once again know where they can
find you your podcast and everything that you're doing.
Speaker 1 (48:17):
Very thank you, very much, and thank you for having me,
and thank you for talking about the subjects. You can
find my podcast Mari soul Nichols podcast. We made it
as simple as possible so that it could be found
as easily as possible. And then my nonprofit is called
Slavery Free World and it's Slaveryfreeworld dot org. And we've
got lots of information on there and on the website immediately.
(48:38):
So you, okay, what can I do? What else should
I look for? It's all It's there and we're updating
it constantly.
Speaker 3 (48:45):
Yes, I love it.
Speaker 2 (48:45):
Well, thank you for coming on. We appreciate you, and
let us know when we can join the next thing.
Speaker 3 (48:51):
Because yes, thank you, guys, dance take them down, thank you,
thanks girl.
Speaker 1 (48:57):
Thanks.
Speaker 3 (48:59):
I can't be honest ing. I think we all know
that we.
Speaker 4 (49:02):
Got on the website right now to see what I
can do.
Speaker 3 (49:04):
I want to talk to children, you about it.
Speaker 4 (49:07):
You would probably be great, would be in the like
the rehabilitate rehabilitation part of it, agreed, okay, because that
would I mean that I wanted to kind of get
into that too, But there's just so much to ask.
Speaker 3 (49:19):
I could talk to her.
Speaker 4 (49:20):
I literally did a part it is, but there's there's
that side of it too.
Speaker 2 (49:25):
It's so true what you were saying about other people
that you've talked to is just putting the hand head
in the sand. Because this is was obviously a very
tough conversation, and I think a lot of people get
so uncomfortable with it that they just don't or it's
just too mature. It's like these are our kids, I know. Yeah,
(49:45):
it's a wild world, and that it's just makes me
sick that it's the number one yeah money maker, Like
it's disgusting, and that's what people don't know.
Speaker 4 (49:55):
Like, I literally, I don't think people understand those numbers.
Speaker 2 (49:59):
No, I really, and I I do think a lot
of those people probably will go into the conspiracy of
those Oh it's just political.
Speaker 4 (50:06):
Oh, it's just I had someone I had this conversation
with about when Sound of Freedom Freedom came out and
they were very angry about the movie because that's not
the only way it happens.
Speaker 3 (50:16):
I'm like, oh, I know.
Speaker 2 (50:18):
Yes, it's always it's usually the uncle or the person. Yes,
a lot of those cases are too Yet it's.
Speaker 4 (50:24):
Still shedding light and I'm not saying to be aware.
Speaker 3 (50:27):
Yeah, I mean it's people that we know.
Speaker 4 (50:29):
And like she said, she talked about how there's so
many different ways. What are they looking for, what are
they doing? There's so many aspects of this that to me,
I can't fathom or understand why any light being shed
on it can be a negative, right, And that's hard
for me. And I understand that there might be other
alternatives or ulterior motives, or there may be whatever, But
(50:52):
to me, the positive outweighs the negative to awareness on it.
And I understand there's so many different aspects of it,
and yes, there's a lot of people that are close
to people that do it, but there's also different ways
and all the things we talked about.
Speaker 3 (51:06):
Yep, learn it all.
Speaker 4 (51:07):
Yep, right ladies, Well, yeah, thank a lot, maybe all right,
good bye,
Wind Down with Janet Kramer and I'm Heeart Radio podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
So this week's podcast, do you guys ever watch Riverdale? No?
Speaker 3 (00:11):
I did not.
Speaker 4 (00:11):
Did I watch? Did I maybe had? I don't know
how many seasons there were? Yeah, but I think I
watched like maybe three or four seasons. Yeah, I don't
remember how many there were, though I stopped at some point.
Speaker 2 (00:22):
I think I auditioned for it, but I can't remember.
Speaker 4 (00:25):
I feel like we've talked about this. I feel like
you did, did I? It was really great?
Speaker 2 (00:29):
Uh?
Speaker 3 (00:30):
Riverdale?
Speaker 4 (00:30):
Yeah? I liked it.
Speaker 2 (00:32):
I yeah, I never I never watched it, but I
heard it was a great show. But we've got Marisol
Nichols coming on, and this is a conversations that started
in our dms. Did you ever end up seeing that
video I posted? Because I never really talked about it.
Speaker 4 (00:48):
I saw your like explanation, but I didn't see the.
Speaker 2 (00:51):
Actual video of actual video. It's cute, but we'll get
into that. But uh, yeah, she works with a nonprofit
organization dedicated to combating human trafficking. So it's going to
be a tough conversation, but a conversation that we all
should obviously learn. And and and here and how it's just.
Speaker 3 (01:15):
It's going to be it's going to be else.
Speaker 2 (01:17):
Yeah, a little education, and also it's going to be tough,
but it's one that needs to be had. So let's
get Marisol on.
Speaker 1 (01:26):
How are you guys good?
Speaker 3 (01:27):
How are you good?
Speaker 1 (01:28):
I'm good. I have my dog on my lap now
we're talking. He is refusing to go anywhere else but
on my.
Speaker 3 (01:36):
Lap, so it doesn't need to go anywhere else.
Speaker 2 (01:39):
Well, we're really excited to have you on and have
a very important conversation. And we were kind of just
talking before the show too, because I remember talking to
David because he was so passionate about, you know, all
of this, and and then he said that you guys
started this podcast and that was I mean, how how
many years was has it been?
Speaker 5 (02:00):
Now?
Speaker 3 (02:00):
Is a two? Three?
Speaker 1 (02:02):
Well? Three? Or actually about three?
Speaker 3 (02:04):
Yeah, okay three years?
Speaker 2 (02:06):
And so you know, I and we were trying to
chat because I'm like, wait it did it start from
a role? Was it something you've just always been passionate about?
Or like, how did you get into the sex trafficking
fighting exactly?
Speaker 1 (02:19):
It's like the question, I've been doing this since twenty twelve,
twenty thirteen. I have my own nonprofit called Foundation for
Slavery fee World, and I dove in kind of pretty
much as soon as I started hearing about the horrific
things that were happening to children, and I was shocked
that it was in this country, like it was always
(02:41):
something that like that wasn't always, but it was. You
would hear whisperings about it back in twenty twelve, twenty thirteen,
and I would I would think, probably like everyone else did, oh,
that's such a horrible thing to happen to kids over there.
Over there was because there's no way this could be happening,
you know, here in America CA. And then I learned
(03:02):
it was here in America, and then I learned it
was in every single city, and then I learned the
extent of it. And it's grown, you know, exponentially since
I started back then. So I dove in and I
ended up. You know, I'm sure you've read that I've
gone undercover and done these stingops in both here in
(03:22):
America and different countries off and on for the last decade.
Speaker 3 (03:26):
How many sting operations have you been on?
Speaker 1 (03:29):
At least a dozen, if not more.
Speaker 3 (03:31):
And have you caught them?
Speaker 2 (03:32):
And have you caught the sex trafficker in each sting
operation that you've done.
Speaker 1 (03:37):
I wish I could say, yes, some of them we
haven't been able to go back and take down yet,
and a lot of them, yes, like that's the payoff.
Like a lot of them is these women and children
being like wait and able to go home and putting
the bad guy behind bars. And it's not like I
(03:58):
can say, oh, hey, I did that one. But you know,
I've saved the newspaper clippings and stuff when they when
they do go down, because it's really nice.
Speaker 2 (04:06):
You know, it's really sad. And maybe I'm just missing it.
But I just don't feel like I hear the stories
of sex traffickers getting caught. I feel like it should
be headline, headline news. Am I missing something or is
it just not?
Speaker 4 (04:18):
I think if for me personally, because it is not
like you by any means but a passion of mine.
I do see those stories, but I am looking for that,
you know, So I am following things, looking at things
for those success stories. So I do see them, but
I don't think that if you otherwise are.
Speaker 2 (04:37):
Hearing a mainstream media, I've not seen them.
Speaker 1 (04:41):
When you've got like a diddy. Yes, that's me, sure, sure, yeah,
But when it's it's so prevalent, you would think you'd
be hearing about it. Oh And like she said, like,
once you do start hearing about this and educating yourself,
you tend to see it everywhere. But before that, it's
(05:01):
just sort of I don't know what it is. I
don't know if it's a protective mechanism, but you just
kind of it's a hard thing to confront.
Speaker 2 (05:08):
Yeah, well, I think what's interesting too. And something that
you said was, we think that it's happening everywhere else,
and up until a couple of years ago, that's what
my thought process was. I truly was like, oh, this
just happens in you know, these smaller countries or countries
that are far away. There's no way that happens here.
And then you realize it's a whate hundred and fifty something.
(05:29):
How much money is this business?
Speaker 1 (05:31):
One hundred and fifty billion, one.
Speaker 2 (05:32):
Hundred and fifty billion dollar business. I'm like here here
in the United States, Like, that's right, that's the number
for the United States.
Speaker 1 (05:40):
It's percent of all women and children that are rescued
in the United States from sex trafficking or American citizens.
Speaker 2 (05:46):
Like, that's insane, that's I mean, that's just like, how
were people not like eyes wide open on that.
Speaker 1 (05:53):
I think everyone's sort of still catching up to it, Jane.
I think most people are still like, what do you
I mean, this happens here? Like even police departments in
this country are still catching up to it. You know.
One of my dear dear friends started the trafficking department
here in the LAPD and he goes around the whole
all around the United States, lecturing and talking to other
(06:14):
police departments, educating them and teaching them how to do
this and what to look for. Because people are still
kind of playing catch up. You know, for the longest time,
we thought, oh that girl on the street is there
willingly you didn't know, Oh she's being controlled by someone
that you don't see.
Speaker 5 (06:34):
Tell us is there something that you and I know
this Like, I'm so overwhelmed by the topic. I think
I don't even know what specifically to ask you. There's
like a couple of things I have pinned in my brain.
But is there something that is like ultra red flag
everyone could see that we just choose not to see.
When say, you're at a mall or you're on a
(06:54):
street or whatever.
Speaker 1 (06:57):
That's a great question because there's so many different tactics
these guys use. My main number one, major, major thing
is Instagram, meta, Facebook apps, anywhere where these predators can
contact a child, and I look for who's following. Okay,
(07:18):
so there's a young girl, she's twelve or thirteen, she's posting,
you know, I don't know her pictures that she drew,
and you'll see immediately like hundreds and hundreds of men
immediately following her. So looking in the dms, looking in
the messages on roadblocks or minecraft or anywhere really where
they can contact kids. Another red flag would be, you know,
(07:42):
something that's more obvious that maybe a mother would just
see going to Like I'm the hawk, I'm the one
who will go to a park where my kid may
be playing at and then I'm looking for all the
men that are at the park, and do they have kids,
are they talking to kids? Is there a guy in
a car idling which happens all the time, just watching
the kids play? So any any like even gymnastics. My
(08:04):
daughter was in a gymnastics class and I was looking
at the men in the audience just you know, they're observing.
And then when the class ended, I was like, oh,
half these men are not half. I shouldn't say that.
Some of these men aren't walking home with any kids,
aren't leaving with any kids. They're just they're observing.
Speaker 5 (08:23):
And these are areas that I'd assume you're in safer
areas safer in air quotes like it's not like you're
I just want to, like, I guess expand our brains
in the way that like this is quite literally everywhere.
Speaker 4 (08:34):
Christen, you do know, sorry, but you know it's one
of the largest hubs is here.
Speaker 2 (08:39):
Yeah, Brent with Tennessee, which is rich and spring into
spring Hill.
Speaker 4 (08:43):
Because of I sixty five. It's an easy out.
Speaker 1 (08:45):
Everywhere, everywhere everywhere in the United States.
Speaker 3 (08:49):
How do you know what you know and be a mom?
Speaker 5 (08:52):
I think that's where like my throat is like literally closing,
Like I was reading through everything last night and I'm
just like, I just want to cry and I feel
helpless and it feels huge and unstoppable, and I hate
that feeling.
Speaker 1 (09:03):
I'm sorry, as I know, it's just real. It's why
I started, you know, my nonprofits, why I started the podcast,
It's why I started going undercover because it was so overwhelming.
To be honest, I just couldn't sleep. I was like,
I don't know how to do this. Once you know,
you can't unknow I can't pretend that I don't know
anymore that these things are happening, or once I've seen stuff,
(09:25):
I can't pretend I haven't seen it. So I couldn't sleep.
And so the only way that I could come to
terms with it was like, Okay, I have to find
something that I can do about this. What is needed?
Where can I help the most? And by diving in
and learning as much as I could, and then with
the audience that was kind of built in from Riverdale,
I was like, okay, let me talk about this. Let me.
(09:48):
Let me speak directly to teenagers and directly to moms
and dads and be like, hey, guys, this is what's happening.
This is what you can do to protect your kid
or hey, teen that person that you're talking to the
guess what that could not be. That's not them, that's
not them. Especially with AI.
Speaker 3 (10:07):
Remind me how old your daughter is.
Speaker 1 (10:09):
Well, now she's sixteen, but I started this when she
was six.
Speaker 2 (10:13):
Did you let her have what was your journey with
letting her be on social media? Did you let her
have it? Did you or did you ever see it? Like?
Speaker 3 (10:21):
What is? What has that journey? And now that she's sixteen.
Speaker 1 (10:24):
So she still doesn't have an Instagram account and not
because she she's just like no, she's like no, But
it was it was a bit I had to gently
explain because I don't want to scare my kid, and
how do you explain this? So I would sort of go, look,
I go the internet. I would draw a picture and
(10:44):
I go, you can contact like all of these people.
And I did like a thousand dots, right, all of
these people and any of them can talk to you.
And then I used like a red pen and I
was like that this many people are bad guys and
they look like the good guy and you can't tell
and so you have to be very, very careful. And
(11:05):
then I'm going to tell you what to look for
bad guys. But I want to know how old you are.
The bad guys are going to tell you you're pretty, You're one.
They're gonna be so nice and so interested. They're going
to ask you where do you live? Where do you
go to school? They're going to ask personal questions. So
at first my daughter would go, oh, I just say
(11:26):
Venus or I say Canada, or I say this, And
then now I'm like, let's just not we don't even
talk to those guys. And I explained to her, I go, look,
you're going to run into this. It's not everybody out there.
And I go and I lecture at high schools, and
I lecture at where kids are to explain like, it's
gonna it's there no matter what, but if you know
(11:49):
what to look for and you know what not to
give away, and that these guys can pretend to be anyone.
And I show people how easy it is to make
a fake profile and put a fake kid's face, and
now you're that kid, and you're talking like that kid,
because that's what I do in the stints. I pretend
to be kid. It's it's just kind of like, do
(12:09):
you see the difference, And so she's very I had
to educate her because there was no way to avoid it.
There's literally no way. You're never gonna unless you never
let your kid online, which is I just don't. I
don't think that's real. So I had to educate her.
And then as she got older, I told her more
and more and more, you know, but not not. It's
(12:32):
a fine line because you don't want to freak out
your kid.
Speaker 2 (12:35):
Hmm yeah, and you also want like, you know, Catherine
has older children, and you know, she's like, my kids
talk through Snapchat, like that's the new generation, Like that's
not something. So I'm going to be obviously leaning on
her when you know, my kids get older. But you
knew she's got high schooler and middle schooler. So it's
like that world has got to be so tricky to
navigate well.
Speaker 4 (12:54):
And I think that every parent parents differently when it
comes to that. I know, for me personally, we have
those toscussions a lot. I have all their passwords, I
go through their dms to make sure they're not talking
to anybody they shouldn't. Snapchat is a new one for us.
I was very anti snapchat until lately, but they do
all communicate via Snapchat, which has been you know. But
(13:17):
I just think everyone navigates that differently, and I agree
with you that you cannot avoid it and it's a
conversation that has to be had, so just everybody has
to navigate that differently.
Speaker 1 (13:28):
One of the things that I also did because My
daughter would do this thing when we were out in public,
like let's say we were at like an outdoor mall
or something, and she would love to run ahead, and
I was like absolute, or she would love to like
I want to be friends with this, I want to
go here, that kind of thing. So I very gently
because what I was saying didn't get through. I had
(13:49):
to explain to her. I go, look, there's like I said,
there's very few bad guys, but they like, they go
after kids, and then these kids are missing, and we
don't want that to happen, and it wasn't real to her.
It was like, no, don't know. So finally I was like, okay, fine.
As she got older, I was like, let me explain
this to you, and I went on, there's the National
Center for Missing and Exploited Children, right, they're the milk
carton guys. So and I would go look, let's look
(14:12):
at and I would show all the missing kids posters
and then it was real. And then she was like, Okay,
my mom's not making this up. My mom's not being
you know, exaggerating or anything like that. And she finally
got it, and now she educates other kids of what
to look for and actually got one of her friends
off of a chat with the predator.
Speaker 2 (14:34):
When did this become the because again my naiveness goes, well,
the drug industry, that was what the big industry was.
When did it switch to children?
Speaker 1 (14:45):
It's a great again, a great question. It's been gradual.
But as the internet sort of as the internet and
other things became more available to everyone, this the child
thing kind of grew. And then not to do a
whole comment on society, but we kind of sexualized children.
(15:08):
We kind of do. It's like you know, the hot er,
all this in music and you see you see it, right,
So along around two thousand, two thousand and four, two
thousand and five, this whole thing started to started to
take off. Because you didn't hear about this in the
nineties eighties.
Speaker 3 (15:25):
Well that's it.
Speaker 2 (15:25):
And I was also curious statistically what the stats are
between missing kids in the nineties versus missing kids today,
Like what that's what that stat looks like, because that'd
be an interesting stat It's huge.
Speaker 1 (15:36):
I mean, it's the numbers between just people in modern
day slavery overall have doubled in the last decade, like doubled.
I remember when it was it was I think it
was twelve or thirteen million worldwide, I think back in
two thousand and one, and now it is thirty the
latest numbers of thirty seven million people worldwide? Why and
(16:01):
the sex trade? I believe the number is six point
six million women and children?
Speaker 2 (16:18):
Do you know the number of girls or women being
Is it primarily? I just want to say, is that
is that statistically right that it's mostly just women? Or
is there also a percentage of the boys And.
Speaker 1 (16:29):
There's a small percentage of boys for sure, it's not
just exclusively, but the majority is women and children, but
it is do people as well?
Speaker 3 (16:38):
So what is the percentage of.
Speaker 2 (16:40):
The kids being trafficked overseas being brought here? And then
is are the American kids that are being trafficked? Are
they going overseas too? Like? What is the like when
you've seen in your what you've been doing? Like what
what does that even look like? Because again, this is
the only reference that I have that's been out there,
(17:03):
you know, which got pretty much torn to shreds with
sound of freedom with what they shared. And I don't know,
I've I've heard kind of like people having difference of opinions,
but that was the first thing where I was like,
oh wow, I'm like, is there a truth in all this?
Speaker 1 (17:19):
And yeah, it was very interesting to watch who was
doing the tearing. That was interesting to me. I was like, wow,
you really have a you're going after this like very
Why is what I was exactly why does this bother
you so much?
Speaker 3 (17:35):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (17:36):
Period? Yeah, like period. It's this has been an issue
for it, Like the United Nations has been doing this forever.
It was Barack Obama when he was president, the coin
the term modern day slavery. This has been going on.
It's not a it's not a Republican issue, it's not
a democratic issue. It's the one issue that both sides
(17:56):
actually agree on. Period. It's kids, right. It has nothing
to do with the political climate today, even though it's
being sort of turned into that. Right. But to answer
your question about a decade ago, it was the United
States was not on the list of countries that people
(18:19):
traveled to for sex with kids. It's called sex tourism, right,
And there's a whole list of countries. I know.
Speaker 3 (18:26):
Sorry, so let's just say I'm just say it.
Speaker 1 (18:28):
Used to be countries that you always heard like Thailand,
you knew about Highland the Philippines, Mexico, Dominican Republic, places
like that. The United States is now not only on
that list, but high on that list. So a decade ago,
if you were a kid taken, essentially you would be
(18:49):
shipped off to one of those countries because it was easier.
Now that there's not really a need to bring in
supply for lack of a better word, from other countries
into America because you've got the supply and the demand
right here period. You've got it and the majority of
(19:11):
kids and you don't And anyone who's listening to this, like,
just look this up. Please, don't just base it on
what I'm saying. Do your own research. You can look
it up. But in America it's foster care children or
the number one foster care children and runaways are number one, period.
And they're picked up by a trafficker, and their traffic
through hotel rooms, hotel rooms and businesses pretending to be businesses,
(19:33):
and they're traveled all along the corridors want to be mentioned.
Speaker 2 (19:37):
And they're drugged, threatened, yes, fully, all of yeah.
Speaker 1 (19:41):
Fully, And I hate to say it, but I'm like,
because it's such a horrific and unconscionable thing to imagine.
I was like, oh my god, thank god they're drugged,
because I can't imagine going through something like that as
a kid without something to numb you, something to shield you,
(20:04):
because it's it's un it's unthinkable. Now. At the same time,
the good news is that there's a lot, a lot,
a lot of organizations doing things about this and rescuing
children or rehabilitating women and children. And there isn't one
sort of state government that I've seen that's not doing
something about this, that isn't like, Okay, great, we have organizations,
(20:26):
we have money set aside, we have laws being put
in trying to tackle this. So that's the good upside
of this is that once people do hear about it,
they want to help.
Speaker 2 (20:37):
Yeah, I mean like, how can we help? Well, how
can we go on? I'm like, I want to go
into stings. How do we how do I help find these?
Like what can we do? And on that side of things.
Speaker 1 (20:45):
Like exactly, I mean educating people about it. You have
a giant audience. It's that's number one, right because if
people don't know about it, people can't do anything about it.
And I always say, the good people the moms, the
people that are not criminals, the people that don't think
like this, don't know about these things, but they're the
exact people that need to know about it because nothing
(21:07):
will happen about it. Nothing will happen, nothing will be
done about it unless good people know about it. So
that's number one is education and awareness. The sound of freedom.
There's another movie that I'm an ambassador of called City
of Dreams. Yeah, that really focuses on just Los Angeles
and just the people that are labor trafficked in Los Angeles,
(21:31):
which is a case of bringing in cheap labor from
other countries, which also fully happens. It fully happens. So
that's another movie that's out there that's being, you know,
a good educational tool. Secondly, you don't have to reinvent
the wheel. There are already organizations doing things about this, right,
(21:51):
so obviously I have one. I'm always like, please donate.
We have a whole mail campaign. We have a whole
educational campaign that will put together for junior high kids,
high school and college. Because it keeps going right and
then even your local area.
Speaker 2 (22:06):
What is that can you can you talk about that foundation?
Just so that what we can all.
Speaker 1 (22:10):
Yeah. So it's called Slavery Free World. I Foundation for
a Slavery Free World, and I named it that way
because I wanted the I wanted the end product. I
wanted this idea of modern day slavery and trafficking to
be something that we read about in the history books
that's just done right that we go I didn't even know,
oh my god, and it's done, not something that we
(22:31):
have to deal with on a daily basis. So my
website is called Slavery Freeworld dot org and we do
a lot. In addition to me going undercover when I
can with different law enforcement, my main thing is trying
to educate preventative because that's what I care about more
than anything, is preventing any of this happening in the
first place. So the podcast where I Reach My My,
(22:55):
you know, a very good audience, which I'm very proud of,
but also going face to face with kids. I can't
be everywhere in every school at all times, but we're
putting together something that we can put into schools that
sort of like add a water and mix. Here's the
data here. It is geared down to a junior high kid.
This is what a junior high kid or an elementary's
kid should look for. This is how to protect yourself
(23:18):
without overwhelming and making every single person a bad guy,
because you don't want that. And then okay, hi, high school, Okay, college,
this is what you have to be aware of because
and the Internet now is the new white van. You know,
growing up, it was like, look for the white van. Sure,
the white van, it exists, but it's the Internet now
(23:38):
that's the right van.
Speaker 2 (23:40):
Yeah, and that's kind of where I want to transition
to because obviously this conversation came about after I posted
that video of my daughter. Yes, for those that didn't
see it, I'd posted a photo video of us doing
this cute little TikTok dance. My daughter that morning we
were saying we were going to do yoga and then
we were going to go grocery shopping and then get
(24:00):
some Halloween decorations, and we were doing this. So she
comes down, you know, in her little sportspra and little shorts,
and I again thought nothing of it, because like she
likes to be in the gym while I'm working out
and just stretching, and we love dancing. And my almost
one year old little boy is just loves to dance
as well, and so I was like, oh, we should
do this cute little TikTok dance and so I then
(24:22):
post it. She was wearing her sports bra and her shorts.
I again just thought nothing of it, and then I
started to see comments, and you know, I when it
came to the thing of the AI and like, I
don't know anything. I don't know what AI can do.
I because I didn't look at it, and I was like, wow,
people are like sexualizing my daughter. I don't understand. And
(24:43):
that was that kind of blew me away. But then
they're like protector.
Speaker 3 (24:47):
I'm like what.
Speaker 2 (24:48):
At first, I was a little like this is more
than a bathing suit. I don't understand, Like this was
a sweet little video I did with my daughter, and
I at first was a little defensive when I was
talking about it to my husband, but then when I
texted David, I was like, Hey, you know this world,
and people are saying that they could take her cute
little dancing, change her face or use her face and
(25:09):
then like AI into a sexual video. If that is
the case, please tell me and I will take it down.
Like I trust your opinion, because you know this world.
I just didn't and I didn't think that that could
be a possibility. And he was like, I would advise
to take it down. You should talk to Marisol, you know,
and this is why. And I was like all right,
and then I was like delete immediately. And then I
just felt terrible because I'm like, well, I didn't I
(25:30):
didn't know. And then I'm like, you know, going through
all the things in my brain, and then I'm like, gosh,
I posted a video of her in her swimsuit at
the pool, and then I'm like, this is so sad
that we even have to think about this. I'm like,
why can't I just show a beautiful backyard? And then like,
I know, you posted things, you know, with your daughter
in a bathing suit, and I'm like what, It's just
like I'm not saying that to you either, but I'm
(25:52):
just like it's just so sad that I'm like, we
can't just post photos of our family without being like, oh,
the Internet's going to take this and have a heyday
with it. But also I don't know the risks, so
what are they?
Speaker 1 (26:02):
So I mean, AI is a whole other tool that
is like a snowball rolling downhill that's growing and growing
and growing uncontrolled right now, period and law like, legally
and politically, everyone's again trying to play catch up with
this thing because this is something brand new that we've
(26:22):
never had to deal with. But yes, to answer your question, yes,
they can take an image of anybody. They're called deep fakes.
You may have heard of deep fakes, right, And they
do it with celebrities, but they can do it with anybody.
And they'll put your face on a naked body and
put it together and you will never, ever, ever, ever know.
It's very scary and bad actors are always going to
(26:45):
take technology and twist it and use it for criminal
and nefarious means. Now there's I work a lot with Meta,
right I've actually they're doing some really good things right now.
And one of the things that they are doing is
they made it so that all child accounts immediately on
(27:05):
Instagram and Facebook are immediately private no matter what by default,
which means that strangers cannot just DM them, strangers cannot
just follow them. You have to approve access and improve
access for these guys to have access to your kids.
So if your kid is posting something, it's controlled as
(27:28):
opposed to just out there in the world. But again
you should know and as parents, what these guys are
looking for is they're looking for vulnerable children. They're looking
for kids that are like that are insecure, they come
from a troubled home, that are easy targets, right, kids
that are posting things like, you know, f my parents,
(27:49):
so I hate my mother, or oh my god, they
grounded me again? And sexually sexual kids. You know, we
all know kids like this. Those are the kids that
they're looking for. They're looking for vulnerable kids. So even
in life, I always use this example to my daughter.
There's let's say five girls walking down the street and
(28:11):
one guy who's a bad guy. I say, hey, you
guys are so pretty. If four of the girls are
you know, hey f you? Or get away from me
or where it all great? The one kid that's thank you,
that's their target. They're looking for vulnerable, easy kids. So
(28:35):
again this is speaking from the education point of view
and how to talk to your own kids and what
you're posting. But Janna, in the case of you, I
agree with you. It's heartbreaking that you can't just post
a picture of your kid Like I went back and
I deleted most of my pictures and rain my daughter.
I don't post anything of her now as her age
(28:56):
because I also know I'm a target. So I'll post
something of her being younger. Here she was, I'm so
happy of you. You're sixteen years old. Here's a baby
pic kind of thing. Because we have to think with
we have to think like these guys think, think how
bad guys think, and how they could twist something. And
(29:17):
then it's up to each individual if you want to
you know what you want to put out there and
what you don't.
Speaker 4 (29:24):
Sure.
Speaker 1 (29:25):
I know some parents that are like, sure, fine, I
don't care, You're going to do it anyway. I'm proud
of my kids and I'm going to celebrate this moment.
Speaker 3 (29:31):
Well that's where I'm and I'll let you.
Speaker 2 (29:33):
I know you. I know you've got something that you
want to say too. But like there was a for me.
It's like I don't want to not not share my
family because that is a part of I love sharing.
But I also know that now I can be a
little bit more aware of what I share right to protect.
Speaker 4 (29:50):
But sure, Well I had a question about the meta stuff.
So they're going to now make kids automatically private, yes,
which just so we're clear, my kids cannot have social
media that is public. It has always been private. Yes,
that is rule number one.
Speaker 3 (30:04):
But I hope you know there's no shame either way.
Speaker 4 (30:06):
Like I mean, I've gotten it from some people on
here because I've open about that my kids do have
social media. People like or don't like that I control it.
You know they have. They all have opinions, which is
everyone has an opinion. That's fine, but just so everyone
knows they are private. It is interesting to me to
hear that. I love that. But can they change it
(30:28):
to public?
Speaker 1 (30:30):
Okay, So there's two things coming out, So that's a
great question. So by default, every kid's account is now private.
They rolled that out. I'm working with them on legislation that.
In fact, they just spoke about it in the South
Dakota Congress. They're going to state to state the state
and them federally. But what they what met US is
behind right now is making it controllable. Also at the
(30:53):
app store, So what does that mean? So that means
that when you buy a phone for your kid and
you download the software to start that phone from the
app store, you as a parent, right there go, this
is a phone for a twelve year old kid.
Speaker 3 (31:11):
Oh that's cool.
Speaker 1 (31:12):
I know. So that automatically everything that is on that
phone is known that it's for a kid, So any
every single app, every single thing, every single setting, because
who parents know how to do that right and know
how to go into every single app and set the
safety settings and set the privacy settings. It's impossible, and
they're constantly changing. So it's by default that everything would
(31:36):
all automatically be registered as a kid. And then anytime
your kid tries to change anything, download something, you as
a parent get a notification and you can approve or
not approve. And it's something that I really really believe
in because I think it's twofold, do you know what
I mean? It's if we can stop it at the source,
(31:59):
so that the phone, the advice itself is registered as
a kid. That is something that I think is going
to be very beneficial, especially as a parent and how
everything's changing and there's new apps and Snapchat and discord
and all of these different things. Can we just have
one sort of stable thing that everyone just knows and
does and it's automatic and I don't have to think
(32:19):
about it.
Speaker 2 (32:33):
I'm such a This is where I go cynical, though,
is I'm like, it's controlled by someone probably in the
government that will change it or that can do loopholes
around it. I don't know where I just get or
corruption twins yeah where. I'm just like it's corrupt and
they'll find a way to make more money.
Speaker 3 (32:50):
Like it may.
Speaker 5 (32:50):
It gave me a deep breath that you said you're
working with Meta. I was like, okay, okay, I mean
I think I might have taken one breath since you've
started talking, because I'm just like.
Speaker 2 (32:59):
Spyraling I do a life check on your I'm just
this is like.
Speaker 3 (33:02):
My worst nightmare. Like it makes me emotional.
Speaker 1 (33:04):
I don't yeah, it's scary, mind too.
Speaker 3 (33:07):
It's wild.
Speaker 5 (33:08):
That's so I have first once I can emotionally get
myself together. It's just it's such a big, crazy world
and it makes me so anxious as a mom. I mean,
I've got beautiful babies. We all want to share our
kids are listen and not to like be funny, but
like literally it's how I don't have to answer the
phone for a lot of people, you know, because like
(33:28):
they checked in on Facebook and we can keep rolling,
Like I don't have to send pictures out to the
group or all the things, but it's so wildly overwhelming
because it's like I don't take my kids to target,
I don't take my kids to the mall.
Speaker 3 (33:40):
I don't want to be that mom, but I am
that mom.
Speaker 5 (33:43):
Like it's like the I have to kind of almost
learn at a real slow pace because I digest it
so much into my DNA that I feel like I
can't sleep. So one, I want to just commend you
for the way that you're built, because I don't. I mean,
it's just heroic to me what you're up to. But two,
this is more of like a personal question how do
(34:04):
you know what you know?
Speaker 3 (34:06):
Like how do you.
Speaker 5 (34:07):
Come home from being like in a sting operation and
then just like wash your face and go to sleep
Because I don't, So I don't know how you're processing this,
Like you're still just a human and a mom. You
know this is really big, heavy, important work that you're doing.
Speaker 2 (34:24):
It.
Speaker 1 (34:26):
I'm it's overwhelming. I don't come home and wash my
face and just go to bed. I come home and
it takes me like a week to decompress to start
seeing people as normal.
Speaker 3 (34:39):
Yeah, like I hate everyone right now. For you. You know,
it's a lot.
Speaker 1 (34:44):
It messes me up. It takes a toll, and so
I dive in and I dive out because otherwise I
can't function, And so I have to constantly remind myself
and look around and go, Okay, it's not everybody, it's
not every man. It's not like go I go if
(35:05):
I go to like, let's say when my child was younger,
and I would go to a park, and I'd be like,
I'd look at all the kids and I'd go, Okay, well,
all of these kids are perfectly fine. None of these
kids are being taken. Okay, I'll go to a high school. Okay,
all of these kids are doing well. The majority of
these kids are never nothing bad is ever going to
happen to them, And I constantly have to look at
(35:27):
and have to like train myself to really look and
observe from myself. Okay, the majority of people, I think
eighty percent of people are still very good and care
very much about this issue, and including men. And then
there's just the twenty percent that are the bad actors
(35:50):
that you have to protect yourself against. But otherwise I
could never live my life, my kid could never live
their lives. And it's a it's a it's a balance,
but it still is the majority. It's still good.
Speaker 5 (36:07):
Yeah, I needed that sentence from you selfishly, just because
I default to everyone's a creep. I mean, they would
probably tell you I'm the psychopath here, like I'm a
psych I mean we homeschool, we do, and not to
keep them in a bubble all the way, all the way,
but a lot of that reasoning is for me just
what they're exposed to. I feel like kids, even and
(36:27):
all things, are exposed way too fast, way too soon.
Speaker 3 (36:30):
They don't get a chance to be kids anymore.
Speaker 2 (36:32):
Like and we've just I think some passionate environment though,
like you know what I mean, Like in cat situation,
their kids, you know, kids got social media earlier because
her kids were hanging on older people, you know, like
with the sports and stuff like that. So it's like,
you know, yeah, it's navigate it.
Speaker 3 (36:48):
You know what I mean?
Speaker 4 (36:49):
Like, well, yeah, and I think it's a lot of
its conversation but also kind of going back to what
y'all were saying and not being able to sleep, I
think that touches on a lot of not that people
don't know that this is going on. I have a
lot of moms that I've tried to talk to about this.
The problem is it is so overwhelming they put their
heads in the sand. I'm just going to be frank.
(37:09):
It is actually very frustrating for me because I'm like,
you have to be aware of this, especially if they're
on social media, especially if they're online. And I get
that it's overwhelming. And I've had people tell me that
they're like, if I go down that rabbit hole, my
anxiety will be so high. And I understand that, and
I think it's figuring out how to go in and
(37:31):
go out and to be able to educate yourself. You've
done it, but not control your life. And it's not easy.
I mean, I understand that. Again, I've had lots of
conversations with moms who feel that way, but then they
just go, I can't, I can't handle it.
Speaker 5 (37:43):
We're really close with the family that's like that, and
I can't. I can't know. And kids are on roadblocks
and all the things, and I've I know, same face,
and I've had to have you know, the kids wear
less clothes and I've had to say to my daughter,
understand that you would love to wear that crop top,
and I said, there's I'm just I have to. She's eight,
(38:05):
so you know, they're still young, and I'm going, I'm
not going to go in the deep deep dive, but
I've had to say that. I was like, there is
something something called perception, and I need to help you
understand what perception could be if you're wearing something like
this or something like that. Like, but it is just
crazy that they're eight and we're having to talk about this.
Speaker 2 (38:24):
The reason my daughter thought I was okay to wear
sports Burrow around the house was because I wear sports
Borrow on the house. So like call myself out, like
I'm not. That's an example that I'm not really putting
my best foot forward with that. Now, would I ever
let her go out in public wearing a sports prop.
Speaker 3 (38:38):
No, I didn't.
Speaker 2 (38:38):
Obviously made her put her shirt off, but then I
posted it to too milliy people like.
Speaker 5 (38:42):
I was like, I don't think anybody is nailing it,
by the way, and I don't think none of us
are not nailing it, and I think we're all the
reason to me for women that like really have their
like pulse on it, I think it's just so overwhelming.
Speaker 3 (38:56):
It's like where do we start?
Speaker 4 (38:57):
Well, And I was going to say, I mean, and
this is hard for me because my daughters a cheerleader
who basically lives in a sports bra. R you know,
so I want to like throw that in there. I mean,
there are definitely things that are I just posted my
daughter doing a tumbling pass last night in a sports bra.
She is in it ninety nine percent of the time.
So I am aware of the AI part of this.
I am this close to taking my Instagram but I'm nobody.
(39:21):
I am this close to taking it back to the
people I know and making it private because I couldn't
care less about a following, you know, I am. I
think that that's where my path is going because I
do want to share that. I want to share that
she got a new skill last night. I want to
you know whatever. So I think that things will be
changing in our household anyway in that sense. But having
said that, I hate to hear you say that that
(39:44):
was a bad mom move on you because you wear
a sports bra to work out. That's not the way
to approach this, in my opinion, I don't think that.
Speaker 3 (39:53):
But I d saying that for her, for her to
come down in a sports.
Speaker 4 (39:56):
Bra, I don't. I don't what is wrong with the
sports bra. Understand showing it to the world, but what
is wrong with her wearing a sports bra.
Speaker 5 (40:04):
That's where I'm also like the over sexualization of all
of us, Like we're women, we are I If I
have an AB, I'm wearing a sports bra so that
you can see it because I'm going to be so proud.
Speaker 4 (40:16):
And I'm never don't right.
Speaker 1 (40:21):
As a mom after you have kids, if you and
you have abs, I'm sorry. I'm like, absolutely, I'm not
twenty thank you.
Speaker 3 (40:30):
You are naked all the time.
Speaker 1 (40:32):
But we're adults. It's a thing we're not putting. I'm assuming.
Like to me, it's about the intention behind the photo.
Like two people could could post the same outfit and
they could be similar age, and one could be like
posting the outfit because it's like this is only book
when I have sex, and the other one could be
(40:53):
posting the same outfit. That's like, look at me proud.
It's the intention, I think, and the flow and what
you're trying to communicate, you know.
Speaker 4 (41:03):
Yeah, if you look at these teens, like you're saying,
the ones that are more vulnerable, the ones, there is
a difference, I'm sorry, than my daughter's account and the
daughter who's doing this. It's just doesn't necessarily make it
right or wrong. But there's a difference.
Speaker 2 (41:18):
Yeah, I'm like, you're literally wanting, you're asking for older
men to comment on your page, and like it's like
it's painful. As someone close to this person, I'm like, like,
you know, young, and it's just you know, it's trying
to help teach, but just had a tough upbringing and
you know, so it's been it's been hard.
Speaker 1 (41:37):
I think that I understand. I have friends that don't
want to hear about it. I have friends that are like,
I don't know how you do it. I don't want
to know. I don't to know. And then literally that
same friend something happened with her young son who she
thought would never ever, ever, ever happen, and he was
talking to what he thought was another fifteen year old
girl on Instagram on DM and sure enough, this girl
(42:03):
had sent an uber to him at midnight convinced him
to sneak out of his house and she caught him,
thank god, caught him and called me immediately, and I
put her in touch with different law enforcement in that
town and whereas and where the boy was headed, who
didn't even know where he was going these things. I
think when you know what to look for, when you've
(42:28):
gotten passed and through the horror of it and you're like, okay,
what can I do about it, it becomes less overwhelming
because it's specific. It's not everyone, it's not every communication,
it's not every single thing, and you know nothing about
it and it's all overwhelming. It's very specific. You look
(42:48):
for this, this, this, this. You know what to look for,
and so will your kids. And those conversations and that
education I think is empowered. Not you do have to
get through the confront of it, but on the other side,
it's a lot easier to control once you know what
(43:09):
to look for and you know how to protect yourself
and you know how to protect your friends.
Speaker 2 (43:12):
What are the ages that it's again statistically, I know
it's a bunch, but what does the age range?
Speaker 1 (43:19):
It depends on specifically for what thing. So it's as
young as an eight year old chatting right and somebody
pretending to be another kid and show me or like,
it depends on what they're going for. If they're going
for I need a video or picture of a young
girl showing me her body. That can range from anywhere
(43:42):
from eight years old up. If they're going for convincing
a kid to sneak out to go do something nefarious
with them, right, that happens. That happens. I have a
whole episode on my podcast with the sheriff out of Michigan.
The guy who's traveling straight state doing this. That's your
(44:02):
twelve year old, your thirteen year old, your fourteen year old.
And then it also depends on if it's a boy. Right,
So mom's out there that have boys, think, Okay, I
don't have to worry about that. Well, with boys, what
they're doing, it's a fifteen year old, sixteen year old,
seventeen year old boy who's you know, they're going through
hormonal changes. Let's just say it is what it is,
and they're they're looking for stuff, right, and so with that,
(44:27):
that'll be your your AI. That'll be your man pretending
to be a girl contacting the sun and sending what's
supposed to be a naked video or naked picture, convincing
the boy to do the same thing. And then they've
got them, and then it's it so. And then if
(44:47):
it's plain old trafficking and your own thing, that's a
little bit older fourteen on up if that makes sense
at least in America. Right, this is what we're looking
at in America.
Speaker 3 (45:01):
That's good to know.
Speaker 2 (45:03):
I have a question, and again this might be a
political question. You can also pass with it because obviously
you're an extremely successful actress. You were on obviously Riverdale.
Have you seen pushback from the industry because of what
you're doing?
Speaker 3 (45:19):
Would you like to pass? You can also pass.
Speaker 1 (45:21):
I just know it's okay.
Speaker 2 (45:22):
It's interesting to me because I just feel like when
someone even scripts that people are wanting to make scripted,
there there's pushback on it in this world.
Speaker 1 (45:33):
Yes, So you know, I have a movie that we're doing.
It started out as a TV show based on my
life and as an undercover operative and an actress and
a mom. And I will tell you that when we pitched,
and we pitched everybody in town. We pitched, you know,
Natsille Likes and m and Apple and everyone Fox, everyone,
(45:55):
And in the rooms people would be crying, like literally,
and every individual that I would meet would be like,
oh my god, we have to this is incredible. Almost
every I can always tell the one that's like uncomfortable,
he doesn't want to hear, and I'm like, oh, I
see where you're up to. Got it? You can tell,
(46:16):
you can always tell. Unfortunately, every single solitary entity though
passed this is too dark, we don't want to And
this is right before Sound of Freedom, which is what
I liked about Sound of Freedom was that it proved
that people wanted to know about this, that that this is.
(46:37):
People do need to know. This can't be something that's
just in the dark.
Speaker 2 (46:41):
But yet so many people wrote that it's all just
a bunch of bullshit and that it wasn't That's not true.
Speaker 1 (46:46):
Look at who was writing that, right, Look, I mean.
Speaker 4 (46:49):
I yeah, why did it become a political thing? I
can write? I can never understand that.
Speaker 3 (46:53):
I'm like, how are why are we? Yeah?
Speaker 2 (46:55):
But anyways, but yes too so so that was passed upon.
Speaker 1 (46:58):
That was all passed upon. It Now we're doing it,
I think, for lifetime and doing it as a movie,
which makes me very very happy because there are now
and because of Sound of Freedom, of these other movies
and individuals in these positions will make these decisions. They
do want to tell this, they do want people to know,
they do want to talk about it. So it's very interesting.
(47:19):
Janet your question because Hollywood as an entity, yes, there's
pushback individuals within there, there isn't and there's no I
want to know, please tell us what can we do
about this? And so it always gives me hope because
when I meet people individually, they do care.
Speaker 2 (47:39):
It's just the boss that's paying the bills that's going
to end up saying.
Speaker 1 (47:42):
Whoever's behind that whole thing. There's definitely a h on
it as far as I run across, run across. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (47:51):
Yeah, Well, Marisol, thank you for coming on. I mean,
you know, there's having me many questions. I you know,
would want to ask about what I think. You know,
listeners want hear about Riverdale, but honest, this is what
I want to listen to. And so, you know, just
thank you for coming on and spreading not only awareness
but teaching and everything that you're doing. So can you
(48:13):
please let our listeners once again know where they can
find you your podcast and everything that you're doing.
Speaker 1 (48:17):
Very thank you, very much, and thank you for having me,
and thank you for talking about the subjects. You can
find my podcast Mari soul Nichols podcast. We made it
as simple as possible so that it could be found
as easily as possible. And then my nonprofit is called
Slavery Free World and it's Slaveryfreeworld dot org. And we've
got lots of information on there and on the website immediately.
(48:38):
So you, okay, what can I do? What else should
I look for? It's all It's there and we're updating
it constantly.
Speaker 3 (48:45):
Yes, I love it.
Speaker 2 (48:45):
Well, thank you for coming on. We appreciate you, and
let us know when we can join the next thing.
Speaker 3 (48:51):
Because yes, thank you, guys, dance take them down, thank you,
thanks girl.
Speaker 1 (48:57):
Thanks.
Speaker 3 (48:59):
I can't be honest ing. I think we all know
that we.
Speaker 4 (49:02):
Got on the website right now to see what I
can do.
Speaker 3 (49:04):
I want to talk to children, you about it.
Speaker 4 (49:07):
You would probably be great, would be in the like
the rehabilitate rehabilitation part of it, agreed, okay, because that
would I mean that I wanted to kind of get
into that too, But there's just so much to ask.
Speaker 3 (49:19):
I could talk to her.
Speaker 4 (49:20):
I literally did a part it is, but there's there's
that side of it too.
Speaker 2 (49:25):
It's so true what you were saying about other people
that you've talked to is just putting the hand head
in the sand. Because this is was obviously a very
tough conversation, and I think a lot of people get
so uncomfortable with it that they just don't or it's
just too mature. It's like these are our kids, I know. Yeah,
(49:45):
it's a wild world, and that it's just makes me
sick that it's the number one yeah money maker, Like
it's disgusting, and that's what people don't know.
Speaker 4 (49:55):
Like, I literally, I don't think people understand those numbers.
Speaker 2 (49:59):
No, I really, and I I do think a lot
of those people probably will go into the conspiracy of
those Oh it's just political.
Speaker 4 (50:06):
Oh, it's just I had someone I had this conversation
with about when Sound of Freedom Freedom came out and
they were very angry about the movie because that's not
the only way it happens.
Speaker 3 (50:16):
I'm like, oh, I know.
Speaker 2 (50:18):
Yes, it's always it's usually the uncle or the person. Yes,
a lot of those cases are too Yet it's.
Speaker 4 (50:24):
Still shedding light and I'm not saying to be aware.
Speaker 3 (50:27):
Yeah, I mean it's people that we know.
Speaker 4 (50:29):
And like she said, she talked about how there's so
many different ways. What are they looking for, what are
they doing? There's so many aspects of this that to me,
I can't fathom or understand why any light being shed
on it can be a negative, right, And that's hard
for me. And I understand that there might be other
alternatives or ulterior motives, or there may be whatever, But
(50:52):
to me, the positive outweighs the negative to awareness on it.
And I understand there's so many different aspects of it,
and yes, there's a lot of people that are close
to people that do it, but there's also different ways
and all the things we talked about.
Speaker 3 (51:06):
Yep, learn it all.
Speaker 4 (51:07):
Yep, right ladies, Well, yeah, thank a lot, maybe all right,
good bye,
Host
Jana Kramer
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