April 18, 2022 • 55 mins
On a very special Whine Down, Jana reconnects with her ex husband Johnathon Schaech.
Witness the emotional moments as Jana and John look back on their relationship and how they helped each other heal after their marriage ended.
And, Jana confronts John about the infamous wedding photo tweet!
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
Wind Down with Jane Kramer and I Heart Radio Podcast. Okay, Hi,
I don't mind our like pillow talk voices Jason everything
in the other room. It does sound like the lad
talk because it's like, Hi, welcome to wind down. This
is Janne and Catherine. Really beautiful, by the way, Thank you,
so do you? I feel like we both wore makeup.
(00:23):
We did. It's just a new thing we try sometimes. Um,
I wrapped the movie yesterday. I can't believe that that
was so fast. Well usually, I mean, yeah, I filmed
it was Usually they do it in fifteen sixteen days.
We did in fifteen, which is just insane. But um,
(00:45):
this was like the first time I wasn't in every
I wasn't in every scene, Like I wasn't number one.
So I didn't work all day. And it's funny because
I was telling my hair and make it people, and
it's like it's it's harder to be there only for
a few scenes then like all day because I'm like
(01:05):
I want to go home, you know where. It's like
when you know you have to be there all day,
it's like you've already just like accepted you have to
be there all day. Yeah. Yeah, Um, and I'm like, oh,
you switched the scenes like what I wanted, you know, so,
but it was I had so much fun. I had
like that cast was so cool, Mario was awesome. The
dancing I kind of messed up on like the last
(01:26):
day with a dancing that just I'm not good at
hip hop. I'm just to do hip hop again. Yeah,
I know, but Spencer was there. It was like a
great choreographer who helped us. But it's still I'm just like,
for some reason, like my hips don't move well. And
I feel like you're either good at hip hop or
you're good at like lyrical ballet type. Like it's just
two different types. Yea, And I feel like I'm way
better at Yeah, you're great at whatever that is, lyrical jazz,
(01:49):
one of those contemporary and I scared her battery and
I know, but that was so I hope. I hope
when people watch it they're not like she's a dance
teacher mary an actress first, Okay, Okay, that's good. Um,
but it was. Yeah, it was a lot of fun
and I yeah really pumped for you guys to see
(02:10):
it because it was it was really fun to make.
So I hope it turns out. I hope you try.
So you're in lifetime. Lifetime, it's a wonderful lifetime and
it'll be obviously you know, Christmas time. So and Mario
was cool. Mario was so cool. Um yeah, we didn't
like it was you know, good chemistry. We um, we
(02:31):
had fun together, Like we laughed a lot. I'll probably
say he's like my favorite. I think he's one of
my favorite co stars I've ever had. Like he's really cool. Um,
he is so busy, so it's hard at times to
be like all right, Mario, like come on, Like he's
got like a million different things he's doing so that,
but now he's really great. He's a good scene partner.
And we would be like, hey, so, um, can we
(02:55):
tell each other if it sucks so we can do
it again. So he'd be like does it suck? And
I'm like, I think you do better and then you
would do the same for me. But like I loved
it because um, when we did do good, like we
knew that the person meant it. He's good. So that
was that was really fun. So um good. And then yeah,
a few other things I'm not ready to talk about yet. Okay,
(03:18):
I haven't I haven't seen you in a while. I know,
I'm lay a minute. It's I feel like whenever I
do movies, It's like, I know, I feel like I
have we have to have like a two week catchup,
three week catch up. There was something else I was
going to say, and now I can't remember, but I know,
riveting conversation. Um, how are you though? Everything good? I'm good? Yeah, yeah,
(03:41):
there's really nothing new in my world. So we have
an in person guest today. This is who is gonna
be good? Katherine's like, where's my popcorn? I brought it? Um,
So we are going to have Jonathan check on the show. Um,
(04:02):
who I technically married? How many years ago? With that
technically married? Oh gosh, I'm gonna look it up for
twelve something like that. We were only married for about
a week. Um we had and then and then. But
the whole people that have been like avid listeners have
(04:23):
wine not obviously know that. Um My, one of my
best friends, part of our queendom, in our group chat
is his wife Julie Solomon. Um. And there was like
a little hiccup that happened with mine John's relationship, and
so we just and I had written him an email.
(04:45):
I mean, we we'll explain it. But long story short,
we're going to have him on the show, and it's
going to be in a men's show because y'all have
not talked since Nope, I mean we've talked since obviously,
like the now yeah were good and then they were
yah yeah, and which we talked about on the pot
like yeah, well, and then I'll kind of refresh people
(05:06):
the memory with that. Um, oh my god, did you
see the US weekly thing about the mommy shammer? They
put it on yours? Yeah, I mean I saw what
you posted. They put on this weekly. They did because
they were like I actually was like happy with the
fact that they like there were so many kids, you know,
like people are really mean to me. I'm on those comments.
(05:29):
I was like, oh god, here we go. They're gonna
tell me how bad of a mom I am. But
then there were so many people that were like, you know,
when your kid is sick, like I can't cancel filming.
I called them and was like, Hey, is there any
way to move around the scenes so I can spend
the morning with her because my ex couldn't get her. Um,
and I'm like, I don't have a family. When I
(05:51):
was sick, I'd get dropped off at like my grandparents
or like my aunt will come over. And that was
the funny time when she tried to make tapioco in
the food those uh, the spoon gots stuck in the tapioca,
because you'd know how to make it. Became know, it's
like my one thing I knew when I'm sick. Um.
But it's like when the current girls like she's dumping
(06:11):
her off it like her friends, like your terrible mom
basically for not taking off work. Most people can't take
off work like that. I can guarantee the majority of
people who work normal jobs cannot just call in sick.
They can't. I mean they have a certain amount of
sick days. I mean that happens all the time. So
(06:32):
that Mama, I want to do well. It's the thing
that like kind of baffles me about the whole situation
is like when I read it, and there was like
one or two other ones too in the d m
S about just being like why wouldn't you and like
why isn't her dad. It's like listen, like he has
a job too, and he you know, he couldn't get
her um And you know, my day. So I had
(06:56):
to figure it out and I was going to take
her to set with me, but at the same time
she's puking, So I'm like, godly, this is you know,
so thankfully like Pamelin you know, came to the rescue
for that. But when I looked at the name and
it said like mama of Angel, I was like, why
is it that any hate I ever get is from
other moms because they think that they have it all
(07:18):
figured out? But that just like baffles me. I'm fine
with a few dms or people are like, hey, f y,
I like the child, like you know, seat needs to
like the head, and I'm like, okay, cool, like thank you,
you know, it's not really shaming me. It's more like
you're trying to just be like helpful that sometimes yeah,
Jay's strap thing is a little like lower than maybe
it should or higher or whatever. Um. But when it
(07:39):
comes to like straight up like just like how could
you or why would you do? And like and it's
always from a mom. It's always been moms like what
I don't understand why why? Here's the thing? Like I
don't agree with Kristen that she co sleeps, but I
(08:00):
would never like and I'm like, it doesn't work for me,
but hey, if it works for you, Like I don't
think it's like but something I say, I don't want
to agree with it, but I'm like, that just doesn't
doesn't work for us. I'm not going to shame her
and be like, oh, you shouldn't be doing that because
your kid's going to have you know, this, that or whatever, Like, no,
that's if it works for you. Cool. It doesn't work
for you, great, Okay, if you got to go do that, great, Like,
(08:20):
and then I started to think about something's coming up
where I might have to be away from the kids
for a little bit, and I'm like, well, here we go.
Like I'm starting like the shaming comes from like the
fear of the other mom shaming me, Like your shame
comes from other freaking moms. I'm like, how cool is that? Yeah,
it's terrible. Yeah, I don't know why they do it.
(08:42):
I don't understand. I really don't. I do think to
an extent, people think, obviously, because your life is out
there obviously, that they can just say whatever they want
to say, you know, but people have to stop that,
Like it's just they can't just don't know the shaming,
and it's getting better. I feel like people are definitely
(09:03):
more aware of that. But online, you know, people hide
behind the messages. You just have to not let it
get to you. Just like like you told me, don't
read the don't read the comments. Yeah no, yeah, I
just it just it honestly makes me sad that, like
moms are that judgmental. Yeah, I mean, and it's been
(09:28):
since I've had kids from the I don't how dare
I not make real food for my children? And I
have gave them glass bottles of food like remember that.
I'm like, I was so excited to go buy those
baby food jars because like first time mom, getting the jars,
like putting them on the thing. I was like, I'm
real food, Like yeah, okay, I don't have time to
(09:50):
like make the blended smooth and food like I just didn't.
I tried, I got it all, got all the things
to make the real food, and I'm like, this is
stressing me out. I can't do this. I think you
just have to stay in solid in your decisions. It's
kind of like the breast milk versus breastfed versus bottle fed,
Like I bottle fed and had formula, and I was like,
(10:12):
you know what, I don't care what anyone says. And
I mean I had all my own family being like,
why are you not breast fading? Because I don't want to.
You just have to like it's tough, but stop the judging.
I think I just heard the doorable rings. So let's
take a break and get our guests on. Okay, welcome everybody.
(10:40):
Jonathan Shack onto the podcast. Everybody. Um, So I didn't
really give like a I didn't really give, and I said, um,
kind of this should be like that people know Julie
cause I've had Julian on the show Bunch your wife,
(11:02):
my bestie, um, my part of my queendom. And so
I've i've kind of what we just said, like that
we were all friends and um we were married for
a hot minute. Um. And then so where do you
want to start? I want to start? Yeah, where do
you want to start? Oh, when you were in the
(11:25):
bathroom stall of that reality program? Do you know this?
So she you were on a what was it or
something like that. We're going all the way back then, Okay,
I can, I can, I can hang with that. We're
starting from this is the beginning of our courtship. We
were going to start there. Let's just go back to
(11:47):
we were both on prom Night and your your grandmama
and your father? What were they on the set? No? Dad,
it was your dad was definitely my dad? Was there?
Your grandma? I don't remember that at all. Okay, Well,
all I remember is I think I was. I was
like twenty five six, like I don't know it was.
(12:18):
And Jonathan, um it was the killer in prom Night
spoiler alert if you haven't seen it. And um, I
just remember going like, oh my god, that's the hot
guy from that thing you do. Because I grew up
on that show. You know, he was the I quit guy. So, um,
it was a movie, not a show. Okay, Well don't
they call them all shows now? Movies? No? No, okay,
(12:41):
maybe that's the lingo it was. It was a Tom
Hanks film. It was a Tom Hanks film. It was
a kind of like a cult classic in a way.
It's grown, it's always continues to grow. People love that movie.
It's a feel good films. So people can watch it
the same as if they watched it years ago. Can
we before we get into the other stuff? Can Because
I just remember the story from that thing you do
(13:02):
and how you actually got that part? Can you just
sell that like that you basically made up that last part.
So the lines were I quit and he left the
band and I chose to in the audition room and
oppretendingly there was a microphone and I was like I
quit quit something like that, because yeah, I was a singer,
(13:26):
so of course, like naturally like you took that solve
the script and was like, I'm gonna sing that. And
that's when they you're trying to get a coach acting
lesson out of this. I am. I haven't really missed
the acting lesson. Just tell you if anything that the
men's will do, I really need you to start teaching
coaching me. Um. Yeah. So I sang it and Tom
(13:47):
just I was just run out of the room. Yeah.
So I also not only did I sing it, and
then I knew that the energy was like I connected
and reflected him perfectly right in that moment. So I
I left the room, I closed the door, and he
come running after me. It was really cool. Where are
(14:09):
you from? Kid? Something like that. It was like, where
are you from? Kid? I got you? Oh East, there
we are. There's Jimmy, I'm I'm such a big that
thing you do really excited about this. I had to
show off my my playtone record. I have the the
single and that thing you do uh with Jimmy there
(14:32):
on the cover. We uh. We recently had a twenty
fifth anniversary and we went to Erie, Pennsylvania, where the
film was set in. I drove up to Lexi, Kentucky,
picked up Steve's on Tom RBIs, Scott met us and
we drove all the way to Erie, Pennsylvania because the Eerie,
Pennsylvania has a smnor League ball club called the Erie
Sea Wolves, and they changed their name to the Eerie
(14:54):
Wonders for one day. It was so much fun. That
is so cool. Wait so eastern. I didn't know that
you were like a secret. That thing you do it is.
It is one of my favorite, like top three favorite movies.
I another Thing by Heart and Janna, I don't know
if you remember this, but when we first started work
(15:14):
on the podcast, I asked, I was like, Okay, I
want to know is the was the I quit part
in the script or not? Oh? I think I told
you that it was. You told me and I was
just like, oh my god, I'm just blown away. I
I think, I like, Jimmy is such an interesting character
and it's such a fun part of the movie. And uh,
(15:36):
I don't know. I just I've seen it so many
times and I know you probably got this all the time.
I'm just a really big fan of that performance. Appreciate that.
And if you guys haven't seen that thing, you do
watch it because it is one of my and your
kids can watch it. Yeah, I mean the part when
they hear them on the radio for the first time,
like it's still to this day, Like I smile so big,
(15:58):
Like it's such a cool What was it like when
you've heard your first song on the radio? We were
in the car, you were with me. Yeah, the first
time I heard why you Want to? We remember, like
I was. We were in the one on one. I
can't remember. Yeah, I think we were on the one
on one Los Angeles, which was amazing. It was it
was it was that moment. Yeah, yeah, but no, it's
(16:21):
it's pretty cool. But yeah, that's such a good movie. Um, Okay,
So anyways, we met um on that movie, but you
had just kind of gotten out of a previous marriage,
so I was very much like wanting to like chase you. Yeah,
and you're like, I'm never getting married, like and I'm
just like, oh no, but choose me, like love me.
(16:44):
You would stand outside my door and just constantly knock
on the door. I was like, God's girls crazy. Oh
my god, I feel so bad for her. She's so
lovely and wonderful and she doesn't know that about herself.
It did not know. And she was so pretty. Remember
I had like two outfits. It was so borne when
(17:08):
you moved in cut two, when she moved in. The closet.
I never forget when I opened their closet and clothes
there was hardly any clothes in there, and you know,
we had to go somewhere, and I was just like,
you're so used to my ex like having this. Well,
he was married, and I say he was married to
Christina Applegate previously. So I mean, of course she's ginormous star,
(17:30):
and so she had a bigger closet, a lot more clothes,
and and Jennen had no clothes. No. But then, um,
so you were very thrifty and you had really good
taste in your clothes. Though, thank you, I appreciate it
was very by the way, he says that, and they
were all forever twenty one. So I think, yeah, I
(18:03):
definitely was like on the track of like wanting to
be like chosen and loved, and um we ended up
getting married. Well there was a long road. It was
a long road. Well here's the thing. Like when I
was on can You Duet? Like I was calling him
in the stall, going John, I don't know what to do.
I don't know what to do, Like they chose me
and not Diana, like you know what do I do?
(18:24):
And you were you were the one that you You
were the one that got me in singing. Remember I
know I'm a reflector. Yeah, like you were like I
brought out your greatest and he goes, I will propose
to you when you learn Angel from Montgomery on guitar.
And I went home and I was like, how am
I gonna learn this as fast as I get on guitar?
(18:47):
Make me an angel? Yeah from Montgomery? And so I
was just like yeah, I just I wanted that, and um,
but we ended up. Yeah. One of the times was
I had we have broke up a good zillion times
because it called Christina every two days. I need Christina
(19:08):
once or twice when we were fighting, I might have
got upset and said Christie because it was she was
completely you were my Christina. I was trying to fill
that void of my broken heart that I so I
would accidentally call you by that name when we really
would get angry at one another, and you'd be like, see,
I think that's it, that's it, but I think we're
(19:30):
going to do with me everything. And you know there's
truth to that. So that was the one thing that
I really wanted to tell you, is that I try
to make you something that you weren't. I wasn't healed,
I hadn't taken time to heal myself from that broken heart,
and and I I just wanted you to shine and
(19:54):
not me to shine at the same time. And I
was so happy that I was able to do something
with you that brought out these qualities that you had,
but I forgot about me and that's not fair to you.
And I think I'm the thank you for saying that.
But I think also on that was I was trying
(20:17):
to fill a void and there was no way you
could have ever filled my need for love and my
respect for myself and love for myself. Like I was
just always wanting to be loved and desired and chosen.
And you could have chosen me ten times over, but
I had to choose myself before. Yeah, you know, and
(20:38):
that's why we were always unfortunately, we were two very
unhealed souls that came together kept licking each other's wounds. Yeah.
And and I think there's something beautiful about like recognizing
that and seeing that and knowing that, like, yes, I
hurt you in many ways, you hurt me in many ways. Um,
(20:59):
and we can both go. But we're not bad people. No,
you know, we had wounds that needed to be healed
and um, and we needed to do growth separately and
so and I've always felt bad about that. And so
I remember I reached out to you when I was
(21:20):
married to Mike. This is before I found out about
the affairs and stuff. I said, hey, do you mind
if I email my ex Jonathan because I just have
a lot of I was like, I don't like negative
energy out in the universe, and I just I feel
bad for some of the things that I did in
that relationship and I just want to say I'm sorry.
And so I emailed you. What did you do? What?
What did you do? What? Do you what do you
(21:41):
emailed you? Yeah, that's about what about which time? Where
are we? This is just before Dancing with the Stars. Well,
I don't know what that is. When before when I
was married to Mike, and this was before I found up,
before cheating, so you got there's like there's been so
(22:05):
many layers of that. I mean, come on, just track
before Okay, yes, before I was Jolie was maybe two
months old. Okay, okay, we're there because you moved to
l A again. Yes, yeah, that's you reached out because
you wanted more coaching, you wanted my acting. But I
really do have an audition coming up for Netflix, and
(22:25):
I really wanted so I really could use your help. Um,
but no, so but I emailed you and you wrote
back and you were just like, I'm married and not
that I wanted to get Obviously I was married too,
but I just wanted but you were just wasn't received,
which is okay some people maybe just the relationship. You
didn't want to. And then she wind up being in
(22:47):
front of my house and I come out down the dryway, kid,
you not, I walked, I come out of my house.
I walked down the driveway and there's Channa across the street.
She's looking at house. Why didn't get the house and
cross not? Did that not? Have that happened? Well? It did,
But can we back up for something? Just like I
(23:09):
was like, okay, all right, all right, chees here again
at my door. No, but you when you found out
the first time about Mike having an affair, so, um,
I don't know any of that. You emailed me and
you said I heard you got Dancing with the Stars.
I'm really sorry about your husband cheating on you. I
(23:34):
know you have a beautiful baby, and if you need anything,
I'm here for you and my wife. And I just
remember being so thankful in that moment because I was
going to l A with my four month old daughter.
My ex was in rehab, and well I didn't say
about Mike cheating for sure, because I would never say that.
(23:55):
I just knew that you could need help. Ye yeah, yeah, yeah,
Like I'm sorry, I heard what happened and I'm sorry
and that you may need some help. If you need
some help, you're coming in l A, yep. And so
he's like, if you need any baby stuff, and I'm like,
I don't know how long I'm gonna be on Dancing
with the Stars. So I was like, yeah, I would
love a crib so my Jolie doesn't have to be
in a pack and play. You know, this will be great.
And he's like, so my tour manager gotten in contact
(24:19):
with his wife Julie, and pretty much I haven't left
Julie side since then. We just hit it off. She's
the coolest chick in America. She's so much fun. And
you guys were then. You guys became family. You helped
Mike and I with things, and I mean I remember
(24:43):
one of our sessions, but Mike and I got into
a fight. Like Julie picked him up underneath the King
he was walking and she was like, why don't you
call an uber? And he's like, I can't. I have
a flip phone. She's like I was Mike was walking
down the street. Oh my god. He was just like devastated.
(25:06):
I didn't know what to do. I was like, kids, hey, okay,
doesn't mean to go get him, you know. But I
mean we became I mean, Jolie became best friends with Camden,
your son. Um, we lived less than a mile apart
from each other. Um, we would have dinners. You would
help me with auditions. You were in the hospital with
me when jays was six months six weeks old getting
a spinal tap because Mike had to stay with Jolie
(25:28):
and Julie couldn't come, And so You're like, I'm there
because I'm like I don't want to be alone. And
you came and like we were like this in the hospital,
they take Jay's they closed the curtains. Kid you not,
they closed the curtains and they wouldn't let her anywhere
near him. Yeah, and I I, you just were a
(25:53):
ball of some motion and it was I held you
while he was getting toward you, screaming like I didn't
know about that. That was insane. That was really really sad. Yeah,
poor little boy. UM. But all that to say, like,
and then we shared a moving truck from Los Angeles
(26:16):
to Nashville. Um, and then we had the We moved
to Nashville, Tennessee on the same day and we flew
on the same flight. Remember I do not know if
that was planned from you doing Julie or but I
just remember being in the seat going no one could
(26:39):
you could write this, you could like this is so
freaking bizarre that we were moving to Nashville, Tennessee, at
the same time, on the same day, on the same flight,
with the same moving truck, with our things altogether. But
(27:00):
that's how cool, Julie, And that's you know, we were
all like friends and it was family, which I think
when I saw and this is where we then had
How long ago was that? Um it was overy almost
a year and a half ago. Yeah, where you tweeted
something about our you tweeted our wedding photo. Oh yeah,
(27:23):
so Cannon came Cannon saw that. I don't know worry
I saw him the phone, I think, or the pad,
you know how the pad and the phone kind of magnified.
They had the same thing on him that came up,
and he was just asking a lot of questions about
you and me. And I just said on Twitter, which
I use like almost like um, it's just it's like
(27:46):
a texting I either put all my thoughts in my
feelings on there. I just put out there. I don't
have the kind of fan base or fans that you have.
Uh and uh. I didn't think anything would ever come
of it. I thought that maybe one day you and
I would actually have a conversation about what that was
all about, and Uh. Yeah, So I included you because
(28:08):
it's not like every day you've you see that and
had that experience. I was like, it was something we're
really gonna have to tell our to talk to our
children about not only you, but I have to talk
to her, Camden and Lily about Christina, you know, because
there there's a lot of um gossip out there. And
then I saw what the reason I reached out. I
(28:28):
saw that, um and I saw it, but it was
like you, this podcast was you getting back your voice
because of all the people talking about you and all
the things that they talked about you all the time.
Because they talked about you all the time. Yeah, So
I thought, well, I didn't really realize that that was
(28:50):
what this was for, and that I think I'm in
the space to be able to to talk about those
things because I am rewriting the end of my story
and you were a big help in me getting to
that place. UM, And so I thought we should talk
(29:11):
about it. Mhm. I mean yeah, I mean, I'm I agree.
And I also I felt like when I saw the
you know what, like her, when I saw what you
had said about our I call it up our party,
part our wedding it was a party the end of
the day, like we weren't. Yes, we were technically married,
(29:33):
but like it was a party that I brought my grandma,
I know, and I know that like her like, but
we both like that we would have never made our
marriage work because we weren't the right person for each other.
Like Julie is your person to the day you die,
like you guys are meant your souls are meant to
be together. We were two lost souls trying to fill
(29:56):
that void those pieces. Jenna, You're an incredible human being.
I wanted wanted that to be part of my life.
I thought that you would heal me and make my
life better, and I thought I had to marry you
to get that. So it wasn't just a party to me.
(30:16):
I know, we really fought on trying to get the
pastor um and get an understanding of what we were doing.
And it wasn't just about the got US magazine, US
Weekly or whoever was covering it and paying for most
of it. Um. It was. It was much deeper for me.
(30:37):
But you know, I think that we weren't ready and
we you know, my father, my friend Clifton, they're all
like you. You can't see what we can see. And
it's nothing to do with you. It was about me.
You're not You're not there to to you know, have
(30:58):
that connection like I am there now Julie, because Julie
can really I reflect something differently than Julian and she's
a she's a perfect partner for me, and we've had children,
so that grounds it a lot more. But yeah, I
was I wanted the best in our marriage. I really
(31:20):
wanted to make it work well. And I'm sorry that
I wasn't able to be anywhere near what you what
I could have helped and loved, I wouldn't. I would
have been a disaster with like I was never I
had so much work to do on myself, and that was,
(31:44):
you know, unfair of me to not notice that before
I took you know, your family to UM Michigan. And
you know, I think it's one of those things were
you can I know, at least I can look back
now and know that obviously everything worked out the way
(32:07):
that it was meant to. But you know, I definitely
feel bad about anybody that I heard along the way,
including you and your family and UM, you know, the
this stuff that we know we talked about the tweet
and and all of that, and and for me, I
was kind of like, I didn't. I never looked at
(32:30):
it as something where it was a bad memory. I
looked at it as a memory that it was a memory,
and it was in that moment it felt really good.
But when I look back, it wasn't. I wasn't there,
if that makes sense. I was there, yeah, I know,
(32:50):
me and Sophie were there. Sophie does sweet little baby,
So I guess, like when I had reached out for
the fifth dem ends after the whole Twitter thing again,
I'm like, Julie's my best friend, Like, I don't want
it to be weird. I need acting lessons. I know,
I'm like when kidding kind of um, but you know
(33:14):
you were just like no, because I hate I hate
that energy. Like even when we were celebrating Julie's birthday,
I'm like, oh, God, like if John shows up, like,
I don't want this to be weird because we had
the falling out over the talking about it on the podcast,
the Twitter and the photo and that it really has
nothing to do with that tweet. I'm certain of that.
I think it had to do with the fact that, um,
(33:36):
I had never really healed from the trauma of my life,
and I kept trying to band aid it and I didn't.
I couldn't recognize it and I couldn't know what it
was and fake it till you make it. I was
trying always, and I just had this deep wound inside
(33:57):
that after you know, after after my first marriage, I
just never healed. I was supposed to be, okay, was
on all the tabloids. You know, people go through divorces
all the time. And I never healed. And that trauma
was such um traumas a time traveler and you know this.
(34:19):
And I don't know if you really do know this.
And I always wanted to get to heal so that
you would know this. But it's a time traveler. So
when we don't address it, it comes and gets us
in the end. And uh, So my marriage was connected
to my career, everything about my work. It was you know,
Christina's an actress. We were in the limelight. I loved
(34:43):
her so much. I still love her so much. I'm
not I don't think Julie will ever be offended that
I would ever say that I loved her, and uh
and I loved you. Yeah, she's got a lot more
um ability to to hear that, right, um, but I
(35:06):
just never I never healed from Christina, and I don't.
I finally was starting to realize how broken my heart was,
and when you did that, I was trying to band
aid it. And I'm lucky to be alive. I did
not take good care of myself after that. I thought
the same thing had happened again, and I was I
(35:27):
was a victim, you would say to me, But I
was wounded and I was hurt, and I I'm just
lucky to be alive, and I'm grateful to have an
incredible family with two beautiful children that I love more
than anything, and I'm lucky to be alive from that experience.
So when I said no, I finally standing up for
(35:51):
myself because I recognized that Julie wanted your friendship and
it was important, and I felt that it was important
because she didn't have any friends in California. You didn't
have any friends in California. And we made that little
unit together, all of us. But when we're here, I
have Julie's family were raising these children. And when I
(36:15):
brought that up about Camden, recognizing and seeing that we
were we were more than just friends. I thought it
was really important for us to talk about it, and
it shouldn't be just in the tabloids. It should be
a deeper conversation. But Twitter maybe a tabloid ish gossiping
thing to some people, but to me, it's saved my soul. Um.
And uh, you can follow me to learn more about
(36:38):
Twitter and my experience with Twitter. Yeah, so that's when
do you think that you finally healed from your first marriage?
Almost five years ago? When h July seven, when I
(37:01):
decided that I would never hate myself again, that I
gave up shaming myself. Did you shame yourself for the
marriage not working out or shame yourself because it didn't
where what was the shame? The shame was about. The
shame definitely stem from that being enough, But that not
(37:25):
being enough was my childhood learning differences, being dyslexic and
not being able to compete in certain areas of education. Uh,
my father try to take his own life. It was
a complete reflection of UM, my childhood trauma. Um, and
(37:46):
that I never ever healed from that. And then it
was from being molested on this nine nine two, my
very first screen test for director named Franco Zeffarelli and
not being able to recognize what that was and how
I allow that to happen. Um, those three very deep
(38:07):
places in me. I have recognized that's where all the
shame comes from. And I have given up hating myself
or thinking less of myself, um, and finally able to
love myself. Because I was on a baseball field. I
was coaching my little little little boy. Yeah, and it's
(38:32):
just a little league coach, And I was like, why
why do I think I'm not enough to coach these
little leaguers? What is that all about? Why? It's just
like I couldn't understand why I hated myself and I
had such pity and low self esteem. And my mom
(38:53):
kept saying, why don't you believe in yourself? John? Just
so much? And I started to really look at that,
and I recognized it as shame that that I'm guilty
of doing anything wrong. I've done a lot wrong things
in my life, and I've done a long wrong wrong
to you. Um. And a lot of my friends would
(39:13):
be like, you should really just tell her you're sorry,
And I think I have numerous times, but I never
understood where they were coming from. And that shame is
not that I did anything wrong, that I am what
I felt that I was wrong. So it wasn't that
I did anything wrong, is that I was wrong. And
so every time I drank, did drugs, add sex or
(39:37):
you know, a liaison with anyone. UM, I was just
trying to band aid these things in me that just
we're haunting me, that wanted me to take my own
life and uh on the little good field. One day
I realized that my son deserves so much more, so
much more of me, and I needed to show up
(39:59):
and I have. I showed up fully every day for
the last five years, almost five years now. Well, thank
you for sharing that. I mean, I know a lot
of things you said in that too. There's so many
people that have shame, that hold onto shame. I mean,
I know my AX dealt with holding onto shame and
that will eat you alive and destroy everything in its path.
(40:23):
And it's a cancer. It causes that I've had that
happen to my UM, with my people in my life.
The shame is so strong that they're manifest into something.
You know, You've got to think our bodies just like
it's watered fluid. We're always moving and if we one
(40:44):
of these things, you know, like my throat. I had
a serious problem with my throat from not having my
voice for so long, and it's gonna manifest if you
hold on into it, it's going to kill you one
way or the other. Yeah, I mean that's I did
this thing in my therapy session the other day because
it's it's a um been a year since I filed
for divorce um today actually, And my therapist made me
(41:07):
put these rocks into this bowl of water, all of
all the things that I have still been like holding
onto and um, and I she's like, now carry the
bowl and I was like it was so heavy, and
then you know, she made right on all the rocks
to the things that like I was like holding onto.
(41:27):
And then we took the rocks out of the water
and then I held the bowl and I was like,
I just feels so much better, you know, just having
that that weight lifted and the lightness. And it's like,
why are you carrying all these pieces that they're not
for you anymore? There's yah things that you have regret
or things that you are scared or fear, but they're
(41:47):
not yours to carry anymore. And it's okay to release them.
It doesn't mean that you've you know, I don't know.
It's just it's very It's it's a beautiful thing when
you can release and just have at weight off of
you and not carry it. It's when you're able to
give it over to something greater than you and have
(42:08):
faith in that. Mhmm, have you done that yet? Let's
take a break and we'll be right back. Um have
I done? What have you given over to let that
all go? So I got baptized and that was the
first step this year, and I have to go put
(42:32):
the rocks in a stream this week. Sometimes keeping him
feels safe. That makes sense. Oh yeah, But it doesn't
mean like I have you know, I'm so far Like
(42:52):
you know, people are like, you're still obsessed. Your AX
has nothing to do with my ax. I'm not like,
I'm not in love with my X anymore. I don't.
It's all my personal stuff that I've held out too shame,
Like you've said, are not feeling good enough for my kids,
not being with them all the time, And so it's
it's colding onto all that weight that isn't mine anymore.
(43:12):
And so I'm really excited to do that because I
have let go of so much and freed myself of
you know, I don't have anxiety like I did in
my past, and it's so nice to be able to,
you know, let people have their own emotions and not
take it down. And there's so much growth that I've
experienced in the last year. But I think healing is
(43:33):
ever evolving, and you continue to learn and you continue
to things, some things might continue to pop up. So
I'm excited that I continued to heal and learn. But
I have let go of most of the way and
the rest is going to be in a stream in
about a week. So yeah, so are we good? Like? Uh,
(43:59):
I don't know. I don't know, Okay. I think we
had to reflect on it a little bit, a little bit. Um.
You know, when I fell in love with you, h
I fell in love with you when that little Boston Yeah,
and you cried and I just was like, God, I
(44:21):
could see her, you can see inside you, and I
wanted that. Mm hm. That was a horrible thing. Yeah,
And a Boston here and that died and brutally murdered
by a pit pull. It's terrible. Poor little Mia, she said,
there was Sophie. Um, but I think this is a
beautiful thing. And I think if you if people are
(44:42):
holding onto like again, releasing the shame. Also, I think
it's okay to reach out to people that you have
hurt in your past and just know that it might
not be received. There's times when I've reached out to
people and they've received it. They haven't received it. But
I think it's good to make an amends, not not
(45:04):
hoping for the other person to say it's okay. It
is never okay, but thank You don't know what I'm
trying to say. Like, I think it's making amends because
you want to, not because you want the person to
say it's okay, all good and to feel better about yourself.
Oh yeah, yeah. You can't expect it to be all yeah,
(45:26):
like hunky dorry, But if you've got like, don't hold
onto it and say like say sorry, apologize and and
just I think amends is a beautiful thing. I didn't
know that, you know, it was before you you know,
Mike broke up or separated or whatever you guys were
done to force today it's a full moon today. Wow.
(45:48):
So I thought that that was probably why I reached out,
that it was time to reflect on something that was
important for our families, for your ex as well, and
beautiful little children. So you know, I care a great
deal about I think that's really why we have to
heal so that they don't carry that trauma. And that's
(46:10):
possible and so well, shifting gears. You have a movie
coming out. I have a movie called Frank and Frank
and Penelope, and you have bleached blonde hair in it, right,
I have platinum Platinum. Yeah, that's so. I was like,
I was wondering if you still had it because it
(46:31):
was a good look. I like it. Oh my god,
it was awesome. What's the movie about? Tell tell our
listeners and where can they watch it? It's like, um,
the movie Wrong Turn. You don't want to go down
that road, and once you did, you know you're in
the wrong Turn. And I'm the guys that I'm I'm
the group the cult that you meet and you think
they're gonna heal your soul, and they're not. They're to
just heal your soul, um, but to take something so
(46:55):
that you if you they basically really uh it's called
sin eaters. Okay, I know that one. Didn't you write that?
I remember you were writing like some something eaters. What
was that thing? I was called eater? Yeah, yeah, I
wat that for NBC. Okay, Elizabeth Moss started it. Yeah,
(47:18):
I remember that. Ye're one beautiful thing is you did
reflect me to really believe in myself and to write
and produce and direct. I did all that stuff with you.
You're great at that. Yeah. I mean we, uh we
see other people just like you saw my music. You
saw you know, I saw something else in news. So
we did bring a lot of great qualities out in
(47:39):
each other, and it just you you know what. I
remember you saying this has happened to me too. When
I was uh, really doing well. I got to this
place where I felt like sharks, Like it's shark infested waters.
And one time you called me when you're doing really well,
your album was going up. All these people wanted a
(47:59):
piece of you, and you were like, it's like sharks
are swarming me and like, I just don't know who
to trust. And I kept trying to say, you've got
to trust yourself, and I was like, she's not there.
She's just gonna get eaten alive. Yeah, and drug underwater? Um, John,
(48:23):
where can our wind down? Listeners? Follow you and John
check j O H N s H A E C H.
Can we unblock each other on Instagram? Yeah? Unblocked? Yeah,
N blocked the phone. I must didn't make it here
because I was like, gosh, she doesn't read her emails.
I am not going to be able to get here.
Oh my god. Well, thank you for coming on. And
(48:43):
is there anything that you want to say to the listeners,
anything you want to say just as a yeah, I
didn't get to say this one thing about you. Oh
we're going to me okay, I was even more good
nice for listeners. Well, you are an extra nary talent
and I think everyone here can relate to you in
(49:05):
a certain way and if they could support and you
and all your endeavors and even the ones that you
haven't fulfilled yet, that I think that you you have
a place still to go with your career. Because anything
you've ever no one in my life has ever done this,
anything you've wanted to accomplish you have. You need to
(49:29):
stick with it and stay there and and um don't
take control of it. Let it take you right And
that's your fan base needs to support that. You need
to go to the next place because you have this
ability to constantly fight for those things, but you just
have to trust that they're going to go there. Like
you're you're singing your next album, you know, dancing with
(49:53):
the Stars. I mean, it was amazing what you did.
It was astounding even your acting career, like like watching
you and just I think you just a little bit.
You're And I talked to Richard marks Um. I know
he's awesome, and he's just like she just she had
never she didn't trust herself in this recording session. Both
(50:16):
like harmonies, you're never saying harmonies before. And he gave
you some lessons right there. You're so, you're so you
take direction really well and you just flow and and
I would hope that this audience would embrace that instead
of attacking you all the time. I know that the
core people that are here if they need to just
(50:37):
embrace you and and help you fulfill your your biggest potential,
your fullest potential. Yeah, I I approved that message. Well, John,
thank you, Katherine, you get over there. That was good.
I loved this. I think this is good. I think
that was a good stuff to listen to. The producer
(50:59):
agree he did, Everything's okay. Easton is the producer, Katherine's
just my co host. You don't on camera though, She's like,
I'm not going to sit in the couch with you.
How is that Easton? Excellent episode. You guys did a
great job. Thank you all right, Well, I think that
(51:33):
was very good and there's a lot of things that
came out. Yeah, it was a lot. Um. Did y'all
even really? I mean I was kind of just sit
over here, but did y'all actually make amends for what
happened last? So? I think I think it was like
not like the whole Twitter incident that happened. I think
(51:56):
he was saying, it's so much bigger than the Twitter thing. Okay, Yeah,
I think he was like going back. Yeah. And so
I think it was like because I always played it
off as like it was a party, It was like
a you know, it was just like because I was
we were married for a week and then and then
that was that was that, um and um. And so
(52:20):
I think he was kind of like but it was
something to him and and for me, I was just
so I didn't know how to call off the wedding
and all, you know, and just and I think there
was hurt in that, like you know, his parents were
there and his grant you know, and so it's like
where it was. I think the amends was the like,
I'm sorry that I kind of looked at it as
(52:42):
a Yeah, you could tell when you said that he
was kind of like, but I didn't see it as
a party for sure. And so I think it was
so much beyond the pettiness of the Twitter and the
whole like one and like that he posted our wedding
photo and why would he do that? And it was
just it was still the hurt of the like the
(53:03):
way back past goes back. Yeah, so I think so
I think, I think, you know, and like he said,
like he's got his family and friends here, and um,
you know, we'll never be that unit. I don't think
that we were in l A because we didn't have
any We just had each other, all of us. Um,
But at least now when I'm around Julie, it's and
I can go to their house now and you know,
(53:24):
like it's not like a going to be any kind
of awkward situations. So that, you know, and because I do,
like I respect him, I respect his you know, I
love his family, and I you know, I love his
heart and what he does and all the you know,
so I'm glad that the error I feel like was cleared. Yeah,
it sounds like it. I was just a little trying
(53:46):
to figure out if we but yeah, I think you're right.
I think it was definitely the bigger picture. Um, I
think it sounds like he was kind of being the
bigger man when y'all wanted to be friends in l
A like y'all didn't have friends. But because he's probably
now she's friends with Julie. Yeah, I'm sure. I mean,
let's just all face it. That probably wasn't, you know,
the most normal thing in his world. But but hey,
(54:07):
I mean, good for him. Now y'all can clear the
air and move on, yeah and block each other. You
know what April sixteenth was the day we found out everything?
Was that Friday? Right? Yeah? But today it was April
six crazy. It's amazing. What a year does. Yeah, I
(54:28):
can rebly. I cannot believe it's been a year. I
can't either. You're doing great, Thanks, Catherine, You're welcome. All right, Well,
that was a wild ride and I gotta go put
my rocks in some water. Have that experience weave to daisies.
(54:50):
What a week What a week. I loved going on.
It's good, it's growth healing, right, yeah, it's great. How's
therapy for you going? Yeah, that's another episode. Alright, okay, um,
see you guys next week on another thrilling podcast episode.
Hi guys, Bye bye
Wind Down with Jane Kramer and I Heart Radio Podcast. Okay, Hi,
I don't mind our like pillow talk voices Jason everything
in the other room. It does sound like the lad
talk because it's like, Hi, welcome to wind down. This
is Janne and Catherine. Really beautiful, by the way, Thank you,
so do you? I feel like we both wore makeup.
(00:23):
We did. It's just a new thing we try sometimes. Um,
I wrapped the movie yesterday. I can't believe that that
was so fast. Well usually, I mean, yeah, I filmed
it was Usually they do it in fifteen sixteen days.
We did in fifteen, which is just insane. But um,
(00:45):
this was like the first time I wasn't in every
I wasn't in every scene, Like I wasn't number one.
So I didn't work all day. And it's funny because
I was telling my hair and make it people, and
it's like it's it's harder to be there only for
a few scenes then like all day because I'm like
(01:05):
I want to go home, you know where. It's like
when you know you have to be there all day,
it's like you've already just like accepted you have to
be there all day. Yeah. Yeah, Um, and I'm like, oh,
you switched the scenes like what I wanted, you know, so,
but it was I had so much fun. I had
like that cast was so cool, Mario was awesome. The
dancing I kind of messed up on like the last
(01:26):
day with a dancing that just I'm not good at
hip hop. I'm just to do hip hop again. Yeah,
I know, but Spencer was there. It was like a
great choreographer who helped us. But it's still I'm just like,
for some reason, like my hips don't move well. And
I feel like you're either good at hip hop or
you're good at like lyrical ballet type. Like it's just
two different types. Yea, And I feel like I'm way
better at Yeah, you're great at whatever that is, lyrical jazz,
(01:49):
one of those contemporary and I scared her battery and
I know, but that was so I hope. I hope
when people watch it they're not like she's a dance
teacher mary an actress first, Okay, Okay, that's good. Um,
but it was. Yeah, it was a lot of fun
and I yeah really pumped for you guys to see
(02:10):
it because it was it was really fun to make.
So I hope it turns out. I hope you try.
So you're in lifetime. Lifetime, it's a wonderful lifetime and
it'll be obviously you know, Christmas time. So and Mario
was cool. Mario was so cool. Um yeah, we didn't
like it was you know, good chemistry. We um, we
(02:31):
had fun together, Like we laughed a lot. I'll probably
say he's like my favorite. I think he's one of
my favorite co stars I've ever had. Like he's really cool. Um,
he is so busy, so it's hard at times to
be like all right, Mario, like come on, Like he's
got like a million different things he's doing so that,
but now he's really great. He's a good scene partner.
And we would be like, hey, so, um, can we
(02:55):
tell each other if it sucks so we can do
it again. So he'd be like does it suck? And
I'm like, I think you do better and then you
would do the same for me. But like I loved
it because um, when we did do good, like we
knew that the person meant it. He's good. So that
was that was really fun. So um good. And then yeah,
a few other things I'm not ready to talk about yet. Okay,
(03:18):
I haven't I haven't seen you in a while. I know,
I'm lay a minute. It's I feel like whenever I
do movies, It's like, I know, I feel like I
have we have to have like a two week catchup,
three week catch up. There was something else I was
going to say, and now I can't remember, but I know,
riveting conversation. Um, how are you though? Everything good? I'm good? Yeah, yeah,
(03:41):
there's really nothing new in my world. So we have
an in person guest today. This is who is gonna
be good? Katherine's like, where's my popcorn? I brought it? Um,
So we are going to have Jonathan check on the show. Um,
(04:02):
who I technically married? How many years ago? With that
technically married? Oh gosh, I'm gonna look it up for
twelve something like that. We were only married for about
a week. Um we had and then and then. But
the whole people that have been like avid listeners have
(04:23):
wine not obviously know that. Um My, one of my
best friends, part of our queendom, in our group chat
is his wife Julie Solomon. Um. And there was like
a little hiccup that happened with mine John's relationship, and
so we just and I had written him an email.
(04:45):
I mean, we we'll explain it. But long story short,
we're going to have him on the show, and it's
going to be in a men's show because y'all have
not talked since Nope, I mean we've talked since obviously,
like the now yeah were good and then they were
yah yeah, and which we talked about on the pot
like yeah, well, and then I'll kind of refresh people
(05:06):
the memory with that. Um, oh my god, did you
see the US weekly thing about the mommy shammer? They
put it on yours? Yeah, I mean I saw what
you posted. They put on this weekly. They did because
they were like I actually was like happy with the
fact that they like there were so many kids, you know,
like people are really mean to me. I'm on those comments.
(05:29):
I was like, oh god, here we go. They're gonna
tell me how bad of a mom I am. But
then there were so many people that were like, you know,
when your kid is sick, like I can't cancel filming.
I called them and was like, Hey, is there any
way to move around the scenes so I can spend
the morning with her because my ex couldn't get her. Um,
and I'm like, I don't have a family. When I
(05:51):
was sick, I'd get dropped off at like my grandparents
or like my aunt will come over. And that was
the funny time when she tried to make tapioco in
the food those uh, the spoon gots stuck in the tapioca,
because you'd know how to make it. Became know, it's
like my one thing I knew when I'm sick. Um.
But it's like when the current girls like she's dumping
(06:11):
her off it like her friends, like your terrible mom
basically for not taking off work. Most people can't take
off work like that. I can guarantee the majority of
people who work normal jobs cannot just call in sick.
They can't. I mean they have a certain amount of
sick days. I mean that happens all the time. So
(06:32):
that Mama, I want to do well. It's the thing
that like kind of baffles me about the whole situation
is like when I read it, and there was like
one or two other ones too in the d m
S about just being like why wouldn't you and like
why isn't her dad. It's like listen, like he has
a job too, and he you know, he couldn't get
her um And you know, my day. So I had
(06:56):
to figure it out and I was going to take
her to set with me, but at the same time
she's puking, So I'm like, godly, this is you know,
so thankfully like Pamelin you know, came to the rescue
for that. But when I looked at the name and
it said like mama of Angel, I was like, why
is it that any hate I ever get is from
other moms because they think that they have it all
(07:18):
figured out? But that just like baffles me. I'm fine
with a few dms or people are like, hey, f y,
I like the child, like you know, seat needs to
like the head, and I'm like, okay, cool, like thank you,
you know, it's not really shaming me. It's more like
you're trying to just be like helpful that sometimes yeah,
Jay's strap thing is a little like lower than maybe
it should or higher or whatever. Um. But when it
(07:39):
comes to like straight up like just like how could
you or why would you do? And like and it's
always from a mom. It's always been moms like what
I don't understand why why? Here's the thing? Like I
don't agree with Kristen that she co sleeps, but I
(08:00):
would never like and I'm like, it doesn't work for me,
but hey, if it works for you, Like I don't
think it's like but something I say, I don't want
to agree with it, but I'm like, that just doesn't
doesn't work for us. I'm not going to shame her
and be like, oh, you shouldn't be doing that because
your kid's going to have you know, this, that or whatever, Like, no,
that's if it works for you. Cool. It doesn't work
for you, great, Okay, if you got to go do that, great, Like,
(08:20):
and then I started to think about something's coming up
where I might have to be away from the kids
for a little bit, and I'm like, well, here we go.
Like I'm starting like the shaming comes from like the
fear of the other mom shaming me, Like your shame
comes from other freaking moms. I'm like, how cool is that? Yeah,
it's terrible. Yeah, I don't know why they do it.
(08:42):
I don't understand. I really don't. I do think to
an extent, people think, obviously, because your life is out
there obviously, that they can just say whatever they want
to say, you know, but people have to stop that,
Like it's just they can't just don't know the shaming,
and it's getting better. I feel like people are definitely
(09:03):
more aware of that. But online, you know, people hide
behind the messages. You just have to not let it
get to you. Just like like you told me, don't
read the don't read the comments. Yeah no, yeah, I
just it just it honestly makes me sad that, like
moms are that judgmental. Yeah, I mean, and it's been
(09:28):
since I've had kids from the I don't how dare
I not make real food for my children? And I
have gave them glass bottles of food like remember that.
I'm like, I was so excited to go buy those
baby food jars because like first time mom, getting the jars,
like putting them on the thing. I was like, I'm
real food, Like yeah, okay, I don't have time to
(09:50):
like make the blended smooth and food like I just didn't.
I tried, I got it all, got all the things
to make the real food, and I'm like, this is
stressing me out. I can't do this. I think you
just have to stay in solid in your decisions. It's
kind of like the breast milk versus breastfed versus bottle fed,
Like I bottle fed and had formula, and I was like,
(10:12):
you know what, I don't care what anyone says. And
I mean I had all my own family being like,
why are you not breast fading? Because I don't want to.
You just have to like it's tough, but stop the judging.
I think I just heard the doorable rings. So let's
take a break and get our guests on. Okay, welcome everybody.
(10:40):
Jonathan Shack onto the podcast. Everybody. Um, So I didn't
really give like a I didn't really give, and I said, um,
kind of this should be like that people know Julie
cause I've had Julian on the show Bunch your wife,
(11:02):
my bestie, um, my part of my queendom. And so
I've i've kind of what we just said, like that
we were all friends and um we were married for
a hot minute. Um. And then so where do you
want to start? I want to start? Yeah, where do
you want to start? Oh, when you were in the
(11:25):
bathroom stall of that reality program? Do you know this?
So she you were on a what was it or
something like that. We're going all the way back then, Okay,
I can, I can, I can hang with that. We're
starting from this is the beginning of our courtship. We
were going to start there. Let's just go back to
(11:47):
we were both on prom Night and your your grandmama
and your father? What were they on the set? No? Dad,
it was your dad was definitely my dad? Was there?
Your grandma? I don't remember that at all. Okay, Well,
all I remember is I think I was. I was
like twenty five six, like I don't know it was.
(12:18):
And Jonathan, um it was the killer in prom Night
spoiler alert if you haven't seen it. And um, I
just remember going like, oh my god, that's the hot
guy from that thing you do. Because I grew up
on that show. You know, he was the I quit guy. So, um,
it was a movie, not a show. Okay, Well don't
they call them all shows now? Movies? No? No, okay,
(12:41):
maybe that's the lingo it was. It was a Tom
Hanks film. It was a Tom Hanks film. It was
a kind of like a cult classic in a way.
It's grown, it's always continues to grow. People love that movie.
It's a feel good films. So people can watch it
the same as if they watched it years ago. Can
we before we get into the other stuff? Can Because
I just remember the story from that thing you do
(13:02):
and how you actually got that part? Can you just
sell that like that you basically made up that last part.
So the lines were I quit and he left the
band and I chose to in the audition room and
oppretendingly there was a microphone and I was like I
quit quit something like that, because yeah, I was a singer,
(13:26):
so of course, like naturally like you took that solve
the script and was like, I'm gonna sing that. And
that's when they you're trying to get a coach acting
lesson out of this. I am. I haven't really missed
the acting lesson. Just tell you if anything that the
men's will do, I really need you to start teaching
coaching me. Um. Yeah. So I sang it and Tom
(13:47):
just I was just run out of the room. Yeah.
So I also not only did I sing it, and
then I knew that the energy was like I connected
and reflected him perfectly right in that moment. So I
I left the room, I closed the door, and he
come running after me. It was really cool. Where are
(14:09):
you from? Kid? Something like that. It was like, where
are you from? Kid? I got you? Oh East, there
we are. There's Jimmy, I'm I'm such a big that
thing you do really excited about this. I had to
show off my my playtone record. I have the the
single and that thing you do uh with Jimmy there
(14:32):
on the cover. We uh. We recently had a twenty
fifth anniversary and we went to Erie, Pennsylvania, where the
film was set in. I drove up to Lexi, Kentucky,
picked up Steve's on Tom RBIs, Scott met us and
we drove all the way to Erie, Pennsylvania because the Eerie,
Pennsylvania has a smnor League ball club called the Erie
Sea Wolves, and they changed their name to the Eerie
(14:54):
Wonders for one day. It was so much fun. That
is so cool. Wait so eastern. I didn't know that
you were like a secret. That thing you do it is.
It is one of my favorite, like top three favorite movies.
I another Thing by Heart and Janna, I don't know
if you remember this, but when we first started work
(15:14):
on the podcast, I asked, I was like, Okay, I
want to know is the was the I quit part
in the script or not? Oh? I think I told
you that it was. You told me and I was
just like, oh my god, I'm just blown away. I
I think, I like, Jimmy is such an interesting character
and it's such a fun part of the movie. And uh,
(15:36):
I don't know. I just I've seen it so many
times and I know you probably got this all the time.
I'm just a really big fan of that performance. Appreciate that.
And if you guys haven't seen that thing, you do
watch it because it is one of my and your
kids can watch it. Yeah, I mean the part when
they hear them on the radio for the first time,
like it's still to this day, Like I smile so big,
(15:58):
Like it's such a cool What was it like when
you've heard your first song on the radio? We were
in the car, you were with me. Yeah, the first
time I heard why you Want to? We remember, like
I was. We were in the one on one. I
can't remember. Yeah, I think we were on the one
on one Los Angeles, which was amazing. It was it
was it was that moment. Yeah, yeah, but no, it's
(16:21):
it's pretty cool. But yeah, that's such a good movie. Um, Okay,
So anyways, we met um on that movie, but you
had just kind of gotten out of a previous marriage,
so I was very much like wanting to like chase you. Yeah,
and you're like, I'm never getting married, like and I'm
just like, oh no, but choose me, like love me.
(16:44):
You would stand outside my door and just constantly knock
on the door. I was like, God's girls crazy. Oh
my god, I feel so bad for her. She's so
lovely and wonderful and she doesn't know that about herself.
It did not know. And she was so pretty. Remember
I had like two outfits. It was so borne when
(17:08):
you moved in cut two, when she moved in. The closet.
I never forget when I opened their closet and clothes
there was hardly any clothes in there, and you know,
we had to go somewhere, and I was just like,
you're so used to my ex like having this. Well,
he was married, and I say he was married to
Christina Applegate previously. So I mean, of course she's ginormous star,
(17:30):
and so she had a bigger closet, a lot more clothes,
and and Jennen had no clothes. No. But then, um,
so you were very thrifty and you had really good
taste in your clothes. Though, thank you, I appreciate it
was very by the way, he says that, and they
were all forever twenty one. So I think, yeah, I
(18:03):
definitely was like on the track of like wanting to
be like chosen and loved, and um we ended up
getting married. Well there was a long road. It was
a long road. Well here's the thing. Like when I
was on can You Duet? Like I was calling him
in the stall, going John, I don't know what to do.
I don't know what to do, Like they chose me
and not Diana, like you know what do I do?
(18:24):
And you were you were the one that you You
were the one that got me in singing. Remember I
know I'm a reflector. Yeah, like you were like I
brought out your greatest and he goes, I will propose
to you when you learn Angel from Montgomery on guitar.
And I went home and I was like, how am
I gonna learn this as fast as I get on guitar?
(18:47):
Make me an angel? Yeah from Montgomery? And so I
was just like yeah, I just I wanted that, and um,
but we ended up. Yeah. One of the times was
I had we have broke up a good zillion times
because it called Christina every two days. I need Christina
(19:08):
once or twice when we were fighting, I might have
got upset and said Christie because it was she was
completely you were my Christina. I was trying to fill
that void of my broken heart that I so I
would accidentally call you by that name when we really
would get angry at one another, and you'd be like, see,
I think that's it, that's it, but I think we're
(19:30):
going to do with me everything. And you know there's
truth to that. So that was the one thing that
I really wanted to tell you, is that I try
to make you something that you weren't. I wasn't healed,
I hadn't taken time to heal myself from that broken heart,
and and I I just wanted you to shine and
(19:54):
not me to shine at the same time. And I
was so happy that I was able to do something
with you that brought out these qualities that you had,
but I forgot about me and that's not fair to you.
And I think I'm the thank you for saying that.
But I think also on that was I was trying
(20:17):
to fill a void and there was no way you
could have ever filled my need for love and my
respect for myself and love for myself. Like I was
just always wanting to be loved and desired and chosen.
And you could have chosen me ten times over, but
I had to choose myself before. Yeah, you know, and
(20:38):
that's why we were always unfortunately, we were two very
unhealed souls that came together kept licking each other's wounds. Yeah.
And and I think there's something beautiful about like recognizing
that and seeing that and knowing that, like, yes, I
hurt you in many ways, you hurt me in many ways. Um,
(20:59):
and we can both go. But we're not bad people. No,
you know, we had wounds that needed to be healed
and um, and we needed to do growth separately and
so and I've always felt bad about that. And so
I remember I reached out to you when I was
(21:20):
married to Mike. This is before I found out about
the affairs and stuff. I said, hey, do you mind
if I email my ex Jonathan because I just have
a lot of I was like, I don't like negative
energy out in the universe, and I just I feel
bad for some of the things that I did in
that relationship and I just want to say I'm sorry.
And so I emailed you. What did you do? What?
What did you do? What? Do you what do you
(21:41):
emailed you? Yeah, that's about what about which time? Where
are we? This is just before Dancing with the Stars. Well,
I don't know what that is. When before when I
was married to Mike, and this was before I found up,
before cheating, so you got there's like there's been so
(22:05):
many layers of that. I mean, come on, just track
before Okay, yes, before I was Jolie was maybe two
months old. Okay, okay, we're there because you moved to
l A again. Yes, yeah, that's you reached out because
you wanted more coaching, you wanted my acting. But I
really do have an audition coming up for Netflix, and
(22:25):
I really wanted so I really could use your help. Um,
but no, so but I emailed you and you wrote
back and you were just like, I'm married and not
that I wanted to get Obviously I was married too,
but I just wanted but you were just wasn't received,
which is okay some people maybe just the relationship. You
didn't want to. And then she wind up being in
(22:47):
front of my house and I come out down the dryway, kid,
you not, I walked, I come out of my house.
I walked down the driveway and there's Channa across the street.
She's looking at house. Why didn't get the house and
cross not? Did that not? Have that happened? Well? It did,
But can we back up for something? Just like I
(23:09):
was like, okay, all right, all right, chees here again
at my door. No, but you when you found out
the first time about Mike having an affair, so, um,
I don't know any of that. You emailed me and
you said I heard you got Dancing with the Stars.
I'm really sorry about your husband cheating on you. I
(23:34):
know you have a beautiful baby, and if you need anything,
I'm here for you and my wife. And I just
remember being so thankful in that moment because I was
going to l A with my four month old daughter.
My ex was in rehab, and well I didn't say
about Mike cheating for sure, because I would never say that.
(23:55):
I just knew that you could need help. Ye yeah, yeah, yeah,
Like I'm sorry, I heard what happened and I'm sorry
and that you may need some help. If you need
some help, you're coming in l A, yep. And so
he's like, if you need any baby stuff, and I'm like,
I don't know how long I'm gonna be on Dancing
with the Stars. So I was like, yeah, I would
love a crib so my Jolie doesn't have to be
in a pack and play. You know, this will be great.
And he's like, so my tour manager gotten in contact
(24:19):
with his wife Julie, and pretty much I haven't left
Julie side since then. We just hit it off. She's
the coolest chick in America. She's so much fun. And
you guys were then. You guys became family. You helped
Mike and I with things, and I mean I remember
(24:43):
one of our sessions, but Mike and I got into
a fight. Like Julie picked him up underneath the King
he was walking and she was like, why don't you
call an uber? And he's like, I can't. I have
a flip phone. She's like I was Mike was walking
down the street. Oh my god. He was just like devastated.
(25:06):
I didn't know what to do. I was like, kids, hey, okay,
doesn't mean to go get him, you know. But I
mean we became I mean, Jolie became best friends with Camden,
your son. Um, we lived less than a mile apart
from each other. Um, we would have dinners. You would
help me with auditions. You were in the hospital with
me when jays was six months six weeks old getting
a spinal tap because Mike had to stay with Jolie
(25:28):
and Julie couldn't come, And so You're like, I'm there
because I'm like I don't want to be alone. And
you came and like we were like this in the hospital,
they take Jay's they closed the curtains. Kid you not,
they closed the curtains and they wouldn't let her anywhere
near him. Yeah, and I I, you just were a
(25:53):
ball of some motion and it was I held you
while he was getting toward you, screaming like I didn't
know about that. That was insane. That was really really sad. Yeah,
poor little boy. UM. But all that to say, like,
and then we shared a moving truck from Los Angeles
(26:16):
to Nashville. Um, and then we had the We moved
to Nashville, Tennessee on the same day and we flew
on the same flight. Remember I do not know if
that was planned from you doing Julie or but I
just remember being in the seat going no one could
(26:39):
you could write this, you could like this is so
freaking bizarre that we were moving to Nashville, Tennessee, at
the same time, on the same day, on the same flight,
with the same moving truck, with our things altogether. But
(27:00):
that's how cool, Julie, And that's you know, we were
all like friends and it was family, which I think
when I saw and this is where we then had
How long ago was that? Um it was overy almost
a year and a half ago. Yeah, where you tweeted
something about our you tweeted our wedding photo. Oh yeah,
(27:23):
so Cannon came Cannon saw that. I don't know worry
I saw him the phone, I think, or the pad,
you know how the pad and the phone kind of magnified.
They had the same thing on him that came up,
and he was just asking a lot of questions about
you and me. And I just said on Twitter, which
I use like almost like um, it's just it's like
(27:46):
a texting I either put all my thoughts in my
feelings on there. I just put out there. I don't
have the kind of fan base or fans that you have.
Uh and uh. I didn't think anything would ever come
of it. I thought that maybe one day you and
I would actually have a conversation about what that was
all about, and Uh. Yeah, So I included you because
(28:08):
it's not like every day you've you see that and
had that experience. I was like, it was something we're
really gonna have to tell our to talk to our
children about not only you, but I have to talk
to her, Camden and Lily about Christina, you know, because
there there's a lot of um gossip out there. And
then I saw what the reason I reached out. I
(28:28):
saw that, um and I saw it, but it was
like you, this podcast was you getting back your voice
because of all the people talking about you and all
the things that they talked about you all the time.
Because they talked about you all the time. Yeah, So
I thought, well, I didn't really realize that that was
(28:50):
what this was for, and that I think I'm in
the space to be able to to talk about those
things because I am rewriting the end of my story
and you were a big help in me getting to
that place. UM, And so I thought we should talk
(29:11):
about it. Mhm. I mean yeah, I mean, I'm I agree.
And I also I felt like when I saw the
you know what, like her, when I saw what you
had said about our I call it up our party,
part our wedding it was a party the end of
the day, like we weren't. Yes, we were technically married,
(29:33):
but like it was a party that I brought my grandma,
I know, and I know that like her like, but
we both like that we would have never made our
marriage work because we weren't the right person for each other.
Like Julie is your person to the day you die,
like you guys are meant your souls are meant to
be together. We were two lost souls trying to fill
(29:56):
that void those pieces. Jenna, You're an incredible human being.
I wanted wanted that to be part of my life.
I thought that you would heal me and make my
life better, and I thought I had to marry you
to get that. So it wasn't just a party to me.
(30:16):
I know, we really fought on trying to get the
pastor um and get an understanding of what we were doing.
And it wasn't just about the got US magazine, US
Weekly or whoever was covering it and paying for most
of it. Um. It was. It was much deeper for me.
(30:37):
But you know, I think that we weren't ready and
we you know, my father, my friend Clifton, they're all
like you. You can't see what we can see. And
it's nothing to do with you. It was about me.
You're not You're not there to to you know, have
(30:58):
that connection like I am there now Julie, because Julie
can really I reflect something differently than Julian and she's
a she's a perfect partner for me, and we've had children,
so that grounds it a lot more. But yeah, I
was I wanted the best in our marriage. I really
(31:20):
wanted to make it work well. And I'm sorry that
I wasn't able to be anywhere near what you what
I could have helped and loved, I wouldn't. I would
have been a disaster with like I was never I
had so much work to do on myself, and that was,
(31:44):
you know, unfair of me to not notice that before
I took you know, your family to UM Michigan. And
you know, I think it's one of those things were
you can I know, at least I can look back
now and know that obviously everything worked out the way
(32:07):
that it was meant to. But you know, I definitely
feel bad about anybody that I heard along the way,
including you and your family and UM, you know, the
this stuff that we know we talked about the tweet
and and all of that, and and for me, I
was kind of like, I didn't. I never looked at
(32:30):
it as something where it was a bad memory. I
looked at it as a memory that it was a memory,
and it was in that moment it felt really good.
But when I look back, it wasn't. I wasn't there,
if that makes sense. I was there, yeah, I know,
(32:50):
me and Sophie were there. Sophie does sweet little baby,
So I guess, like when I had reached out for
the fifth dem ends after the whole Twitter thing again,
I'm like, Julie's my best friend, Like, I don't want
it to be weird. I need acting lessons. I know,
I'm like when kidding kind of um, but you know
(33:14):
you were just like no, because I hate I hate
that energy. Like even when we were celebrating Julie's birthday,
I'm like, oh, God, like if John shows up, like,
I don't want this to be weird because we had
the falling out over the talking about it on the podcast,
the Twitter and the photo and that it really has
nothing to do with that tweet. I'm certain of that.
I think it had to do with the fact that, um,
(33:36):
I had never really healed from the trauma of my life,
and I kept trying to band aid it and I didn't.
I couldn't recognize it and I couldn't know what it
was and fake it till you make it. I was
trying always, and I just had this deep wound inside
(33:57):
that after you know, after after my first marriage, I
just never healed. I was supposed to be, okay, was
on all the tabloids. You know, people go through divorces
all the time. And I never healed. And that trauma
was such um traumas a time traveler and you know this.
(34:19):
And I don't know if you really do know this.
And I always wanted to get to heal so that
you would know this. But it's a time traveler. So
when we don't address it, it comes and gets us
in the end. And uh, So my marriage was connected
to my career, everything about my work. It was you know,
Christina's an actress. We were in the limelight. I loved
(34:43):
her so much. I still love her so much. I'm
not I don't think Julie will ever be offended that
I would ever say that I loved her, and uh
and I loved you. Yeah, she's got a lot more
um ability to to hear that, right, um, but I
(35:06):
just never I never healed from Christina, and I don't.
I finally was starting to realize how broken my heart was,
and when you did that, I was trying to band
aid it. And I'm lucky to be alive. I did
not take good care of myself after that. I thought
the same thing had happened again, and I was I
(35:27):
was a victim, you would say to me, But I
was wounded and I was hurt, and I I'm just
lucky to be alive, and I'm grateful to have an
incredible family with two beautiful children that I love more
than anything, and I'm lucky to be alive from that experience.
So when I said no, I finally standing up for
(35:51):
myself because I recognized that Julie wanted your friendship and
it was important, and I felt that it was important
because she didn't have any friends in California. You didn't
have any friends in California. And we made that little
unit together, all of us. But when we're here, I
have Julie's family were raising these children. And when I
(36:15):
brought that up about Camden, recognizing and seeing that we
were we were more than just friends. I thought it
was really important for us to talk about it, and
it shouldn't be just in the tabloids. It should be
a deeper conversation. But Twitter maybe a tabloid ish gossiping
thing to some people, but to me, it's saved my soul. Um.
And uh, you can follow me to learn more about
(36:38):
Twitter and my experience with Twitter. Yeah, so that's when
do you think that you finally healed from your first marriage?
Almost five years ago? When h July seven, when I
(37:01):
decided that I would never hate myself again, that I
gave up shaming myself. Did you shame yourself for the
marriage not working out or shame yourself because it didn't
where what was the shame? The shame was about. The
shame definitely stem from that being enough, But that not
(37:25):
being enough was my childhood learning differences, being dyslexic and
not being able to compete in certain areas of education. Uh,
my father try to take his own life. It was
a complete reflection of UM, my childhood trauma. Um, and
(37:46):
that I never ever healed from that. And then it
was from being molested on this nine nine two, my
very first screen test for director named Franco Zeffarelli and
not being able to recognize what that was and how
I allow that to happen. Um, those three very deep
(38:07):
places in me. I have recognized that's where all the
shame comes from. And I have given up hating myself
or thinking less of myself, um, and finally able to
love myself. Because I was on a baseball field. I
was coaching my little little little boy. Yeah, and it's
(38:32):
just a little league coach, And I was like, why
why do I think I'm not enough to coach these
little leaguers? What is that all about? Why? It's just
like I couldn't understand why I hated myself and I
had such pity and low self esteem. And my mom
(38:53):
kept saying, why don't you believe in yourself? John? Just
so much? And I started to really look at that,
and I recognized it as shame that that I'm guilty
of doing anything wrong. I've done a lot wrong things
in my life, and I've done a long wrong wrong
to you. Um. And a lot of my friends would
(39:13):
be like, you should really just tell her you're sorry,
And I think I have numerous times, but I never
understood where they were coming from. And that shame is
not that I did anything wrong, that I am what
I felt that I was wrong. So it wasn't that
I did anything wrong, is that I was wrong. And
so every time I drank, did drugs, add sex or
(39:37):
you know, a liaison with anyone. UM, I was just
trying to band aid these things in me that just
we're haunting me, that wanted me to take my own
life and uh on the little good field. One day
I realized that my son deserves so much more, so
much more of me, and I needed to show up
(39:59):
and I have. I showed up fully every day for
the last five years, almost five years now. Well, thank
you for sharing that. I mean, I know a lot
of things you said in that too. There's so many
people that have shame, that hold onto shame. I mean,
I know my AX dealt with holding onto shame and
that will eat you alive and destroy everything in its path.
(40:23):
And it's a cancer. It causes that I've had that
happen to my UM, with my people in my life.
The shame is so strong that they're manifest into something.
You know, You've got to think our bodies just like
it's watered fluid. We're always moving and if we one
(40:44):
of these things, you know, like my throat. I had
a serious problem with my throat from not having my
voice for so long, and it's gonna manifest if you
hold on into it, it's going to kill you one
way or the other. Yeah, I mean that's I did
this thing in my therapy session the other day because
it's it's a um been a year since I filed
for divorce um today actually, And my therapist made me
(41:07):
put these rocks into this bowl of water, all of
all the things that I have still been like holding
onto and um, and I she's like, now carry the
bowl and I was like it was so heavy, and
then you know, she made right on all the rocks
to the things that like I was like holding onto.
(41:27):
And then we took the rocks out of the water
and then I held the bowl and I was like,
I just feels so much better, you know, just having
that that weight lifted and the lightness. And it's like,
why are you carrying all these pieces that they're not
for you anymore? There's yah things that you have regret
or things that you are scared or fear, but they're
(41:47):
not yours to carry anymore. And it's okay to release them.
It doesn't mean that you've you know, I don't know.
It's just it's very It's it's a beautiful thing when
you can release and just have at weight off of
you and not carry it. It's when you're able to
give it over to something greater than you and have
(42:08):
faith in that. Mhmm, have you done that yet? Let's
take a break and we'll be right back. Um have
I done? What have you given over to let that
all go? So I got baptized and that was the
first step this year, and I have to go put
(42:32):
the rocks in a stream this week. Sometimes keeping him
feels safe. That makes sense. Oh yeah, But it doesn't
mean like I have you know, I'm so far Like
(42:52):
you know, people are like, you're still obsessed. Your AX
has nothing to do with my ax. I'm not like,
I'm not in love with my X anymore. I don't.
It's all my personal stuff that I've held out too shame,
Like you've said, are not feeling good enough for my kids,
not being with them all the time, And so it's
it's colding onto all that weight that isn't mine anymore.
(43:12):
And so I'm really excited to do that because I
have let go of so much and freed myself of
you know, I don't have anxiety like I did in
my past, and it's so nice to be able to,
you know, let people have their own emotions and not
take it down. And there's so much growth that I've
experienced in the last year. But I think healing is
(43:33):
ever evolving, and you continue to learn and you continue
to things, some things might continue to pop up. So
I'm excited that I continued to heal and learn. But
I have let go of most of the way and
the rest is going to be in a stream in
about a week. So yeah, so are we good? Like? Uh,
(43:59):
I don't know. I don't know, Okay. I think we
had to reflect on it a little bit, a little bit. Um.
You know, when I fell in love with you, h
I fell in love with you when that little Boston Yeah,
and you cried and I just was like, God, I
(44:21):
could see her, you can see inside you, and I
wanted that. Mm hm. That was a horrible thing. Yeah,
And a Boston here and that died and brutally murdered
by a pit pull. It's terrible. Poor little Mia, she said,
there was Sophie. Um, but I think this is a
beautiful thing. And I think if you if people are
(44:42):
holding onto like again, releasing the shame. Also, I think
it's okay to reach out to people that you have
hurt in your past and just know that it might
not be received. There's times when I've reached out to
people and they've received it. They haven't received it. But
I think it's good to make an amends, not not
(45:04):
hoping for the other person to say it's okay. It
is never okay, but thank You don't know what I'm
trying to say. Like, I think it's making amends because
you want to, not because you want the person to
say it's okay, all good and to feel better about yourself.
Oh yeah, yeah. You can't expect it to be all yeah,
(45:26):
like hunky dorry, But if you've got like, don't hold
onto it and say like say sorry, apologize and and
just I think amends is a beautiful thing. I didn't
know that, you know, it was before you you know,
Mike broke up or separated or whatever you guys were
done to force today it's a full moon today. Wow.
(45:48):
So I thought that that was probably why I reached out,
that it was time to reflect on something that was
important for our families, for your ex as well, and
beautiful little children. So you know, I care a great
deal about I think that's really why we have to
heal so that they don't carry that trauma. And that's
(46:10):
possible and so well, shifting gears. You have a movie
coming out. I have a movie called Frank and Frank
and Penelope, and you have bleached blonde hair in it, right,
I have platinum Platinum. Yeah, that's so. I was like,
I was wondering if you still had it because it
(46:31):
was a good look. I like it. Oh my god,
it was awesome. What's the movie about? Tell tell our
listeners and where can they watch it? It's like, um,
the movie Wrong Turn. You don't want to go down
that road, and once you did, you know you're in
the wrong Turn. And I'm the guys that I'm I'm
the group the cult that you meet and you think
they're gonna heal your soul, and they're not. They're to
just heal your soul, um, but to take something so
(46:55):
that you if you they basically really uh it's called
sin eaters. Okay, I know that one. Didn't you write that?
I remember you were writing like some something eaters. What
was that thing? I was called eater? Yeah, yeah, I
wat that for NBC. Okay, Elizabeth Moss started it. Yeah,
(47:18):
I remember that. Ye're one beautiful thing is you did
reflect me to really believe in myself and to write
and produce and direct. I did all that stuff with you.
You're great at that. Yeah. I mean we, uh we
see other people just like you saw my music. You
saw you know, I saw something else in news. So
we did bring a lot of great qualities out in
(47:39):
each other, and it just you you know what. I
remember you saying this has happened to me too. When
I was uh, really doing well. I got to this
place where I felt like sharks, Like it's shark infested waters.
And one time you called me when you're doing really well,
your album was going up. All these people wanted a
(47:59):
piece of you, and you were like, it's like sharks
are swarming me and like, I just don't know who
to trust. And I kept trying to say, you've got
to trust yourself, and I was like, she's not there.
She's just gonna get eaten alive. Yeah, and drug underwater? Um, John,
(48:23):
where can our wind down? Listeners? Follow you and John
check j O H N s H A E C H.
Can we unblock each other on Instagram? Yeah? Unblocked? Yeah,
N blocked the phone. I must didn't make it here
because I was like, gosh, she doesn't read her emails.
I am not going to be able to get here.
Oh my god. Well, thank you for coming on. And
(48:43):
is there anything that you want to say to the listeners,
anything you want to say just as a yeah, I
didn't get to say this one thing about you. Oh
we're going to me okay, I was even more good
nice for listeners. Well, you are an extra nary talent
and I think everyone here can relate to you in
(49:05):
a certain way and if they could support and you
and all your endeavors and even the ones that you
haven't fulfilled yet, that I think that you you have
a place still to go with your career. Because anything
you've ever no one in my life has ever done this,
anything you've wanted to accomplish you have. You need to
(49:29):
stick with it and stay there and and um don't
take control of it. Let it take you right And
that's your fan base needs to support that. You need
to go to the next place because you have this
ability to constantly fight for those things, but you just
have to trust that they're going to go there. Like
you're you're singing your next album, you know, dancing with
(49:53):
the Stars. I mean, it was amazing what you did.
It was astounding even your acting career, like like watching
you and just I think you just a little bit.
You're And I talked to Richard marks Um. I know
he's awesome, and he's just like she just she had
never she didn't trust herself in this recording session. Both
(50:16):
like harmonies, you're never saying harmonies before. And he gave
you some lessons right there. You're so, you're so you
take direction really well and you just flow and and
I would hope that this audience would embrace that instead
of attacking you all the time. I know that the
core people that are here if they need to just
(50:37):
embrace you and and help you fulfill your your biggest potential,
your fullest potential. Yeah, I I approved that message. Well, John,
thank you, Katherine, you get over there. That was good.
I loved this. I think this is good. I think
that was a good stuff to listen to. The producer
(50:59):
agree he did, Everything's okay. Easton is the producer, Katherine's
just my co host. You don't on camera though, She's like,
I'm not going to sit in the couch with you.
How is that Easton? Excellent episode. You guys did a
great job. Thank you all right, Well, I think that
(51:33):
was very good and there's a lot of things that
came out. Yeah, it was a lot. Um. Did y'all
even really? I mean I was kind of just sit
over here, but did y'all actually make amends for what
happened last? So? I think I think it was like
not like the whole Twitter incident that happened. I think
(51:56):
he was saying, it's so much bigger than the Twitter thing. Okay, Yeah,
I think he was like going back. Yeah. And so
I think it was like because I always played it
off as like it was a party, It was like
a you know, it was just like because I was
we were married for a week and then and then
that was that was that, um and um. And so
(52:20):
I think he was kind of like but it was
something to him and and for me, I was just
so I didn't know how to call off the wedding
and all, you know, and just and I think there
was hurt in that, like you know, his parents were
there and his grant you know, and so it's like
where it was. I think the amends was the like,
I'm sorry that I kind of looked at it as
(52:42):
a Yeah, you could tell when you said that he
was kind of like, but I didn't see it as
a party for sure. And so I think it was
so much beyond the pettiness of the Twitter and the
whole like one and like that he posted our wedding
photo and why would he do that? And it was
just it was still the hurt of the like the
(53:03):
way back past goes back. Yeah, so I think so
I think, I think, you know, and like he said,
like he's got his family and friends here, and um,
you know, we'll never be that unit. I don't think
that we were in l A because we didn't have
any We just had each other, all of us. Um,
But at least now when I'm around Julie, it's and
I can go to their house now and you know,
(53:24):
like it's not like a going to be any kind
of awkward situations. So that, you know, and because I do,
like I respect him, I respect his you know, I
love his family, and I you know, I love his
heart and what he does and all the you know,
so I'm glad that the error I feel like was cleared. Yeah,
it sounds like it. I was just a little trying
(53:46):
to figure out if we but yeah, I think you're right.
I think it was definitely the bigger picture. Um, I
think it sounds like he was kind of being the
bigger man when y'all wanted to be friends in l
A like y'all didn't have friends. But because he's probably
now she's friends with Julie. Yeah, I'm sure. I mean,
let's just all face it. That probably wasn't, you know,
the most normal thing in his world. But but hey,
(54:07):
I mean, good for him. Now y'all can clear the
air and move on, yeah and block each other. You
know what April sixteenth was the day we found out everything?
Was that Friday? Right? Yeah? But today it was April
six crazy. It's amazing. What a year does. Yeah, I
(54:28):
can rebly. I cannot believe it's been a year. I
can't either. You're doing great, Thanks, Catherine, You're welcome. All right, Well,
that was a wild ride and I gotta go put
my rocks in some water. Have that experience weave to daisies.
(54:50):
What a week What a week. I loved going on.
It's good, it's growth healing, right, yeah, it's great. How's
therapy for you going? Yeah, that's another episode. Alright, okay, um,
see you guys next week on another thrilling podcast episode.
Hi guys, Bye bye
Host
Jana Kramer
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