August 5, 2024 • 39 mins
We’ve all heard the stories about Armie Hammer… but Jana is ready to talk to the woman who knows him best: his mother. Dru Hammer is here and ready to share the true story about her son’s downfall.
Nothing is held back as Jana asks the tough questions, and we hear the truth about how Armie went from an A-list actor in Hollywood to defending horrible accusations.
Be sure to check out the new book “Hammered” by Dru Hammer, available now at https://druville.com/products/hammeredbook
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Wind Down with Janet Kramer and I'm Heeart Radio podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
Is it me or is it freezing in here?
Speaker 3 (00:08):
Freezing?
Speaker 1 (00:09):
So walked in here and I was like, whoa, I
wore this shirt because it's you. And then I was like,
oh man, it's always so hot in here. And then
I walked down.
Speaker 4 (00:15):
I was like, it's freezing. So that your house is
never like this. No, I don't understand what my house
messing with.
Speaker 1 (00:24):
My someone someone's.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
Touching my dials.
Speaker 4 (00:27):
Hi guys, Hi, Hey, I had one of those moments
today where I got into the car. So my sweet
little builder, his son is like dreams of being a director.
And so my really good director friend is in town
right now filming a movie. And so when we bought
(00:47):
the house or whatever, the builder guy was like listen,
he's like because at the very end and everyone gives
like the builder a gift or something, and so I
was I didn't know that. I mean usually click what
it is house, but that's yeah, well we did the
last one, like we gave them like some like liquor
bottle or whatever. And so I was like, hey, you
know what do you you know? What are you and
(01:08):
your wife like? And you know and he's like, I
don't want anything. I just want one favor. Like my
son wants to be a director, and it's like his
whole life's passion. He sent me like this thing. He
didn't because he's in high school. He's a cute little junior,
and he's like he wants to, you know, direct, and
he just wants to see what it's like on like
the real deal. So he's like, if you could ever
(01:30):
make that work, like would owe you forever. And so
first I was going to have him come to West Virginia,
but I'm like it's just too heavy of a set,
Like I can't be like managing like you know, people
on set when I'm like getting like choked and stuff
like that. It's a very emotional movie. Like I just
like I can't like do that. So I knew that
(01:52):
my buddy Brian, who have done a few movies with
he's in He's been filming a movie here with Alexa Penevega,
who I love so much. She's just an absolute doll
and so sad she just had a still birth, Like
it's just heartbreaking, I know, but she's her and her
husband are acting in this movie together and it's just precious.
So anyways, so I'm like perfect, but Brian, not being
(02:13):
from Nashville, He's like, yeah, we're filming in Franklin. It
was all the way in where like old producer lived.
So I'm like forty five minutes later. But when I'm
in the car, it was one of those where I
was like, I forgot to wear deodorant.
Speaker 2 (02:25):
I was like, no sweating in the car.
Speaker 4 (02:27):
And I'm like, oh, I know, that's just the most
random moment ever. But anyways, but it was really cute
and he's like on set and I was like, anyways,
I have to podcast. Like I was like, so I
literally just dropped this little, sweet.
Speaker 2 (02:37):
Little shoe I did.
Speaker 4 (02:38):
I was like, and then I'm like high stacy, hi guys.
Because the people that I've worked with before, like on
set or whatever. And so I'm like, okay, here's here.
He is like, here's a hot set. This is the world, Brian,
this is you know, Like he's just okay now and
go action, Like I gotta go, Hi, Alexa take your
build her son to work day? Yeah okay, And like
he's like are you coming back? And I'm like it's
forty minutes.
Speaker 2 (02:59):
Do you ever ride home. Well, no, he drove like
he followed me there. So I picked him up in
the model down the street. He followed me. My kids
stuck it in his Mercedes, and I'm like, my.
Speaker 3 (03:09):
Lord, I'm like, oh.
Speaker 2 (03:11):
I had to buy my car. Yeah.
Speaker 4 (03:13):
It was like so cute anyways, but yeah, so that
was that and then I like that's why I was
late there.
Speaker 2 (03:25):
But now I'm still stinky.
Speaker 4 (03:26):
So if I stay, well, my bag's still somewhere overseas US.
Speaker 2 (03:30):
I can't believe that, is it?
Speaker 5 (03:31):
Ever?
Speaker 2 (03:32):
Does that mean you haven't gotten theodor?
Speaker 5 (03:34):
You know?
Speaker 4 (03:34):
So I bought, like I bought like one of those
like cheap o' ones from the walmart, like those travel
ones or whatever, and usually I have one in my purse.
I've got one here I got there and like I
just got like the one random and like so I
just forget to like put it on. I've got no makeup,
but I've got like this like little like underre stuff.
Speaker 2 (03:51):
Do you so you never get it back?
Speaker 4 (03:53):
We don't know Alan Alan's back came, but mine. They're
like we don't.
Speaker 1 (03:57):
Know, wait, is it just one of yours or like several?
So because there was a lot of suitcases, my only.
Speaker 4 (04:02):
Real big bag, so like my my the other ones
we came with, but like the one that has my
makeup in my like all my clothes, all my toilet trees,
all my like everything, my diamond earrings in there, My
Jimmy Choo's like like.
Speaker 2 (04:17):
Great jewelry here.
Speaker 4 (04:17):
Yeah, it's They're like, we don't know because.
Speaker 2 (04:21):
Somebody at the airline is like, and check me out.
I only have one pair.
Speaker 4 (04:30):
I know everything else is Amazon, but I'm like, all
my nice stuff wasn't that bad? Well, now we know
about eggs and baskets. We don't do that ever again. No,
so it was like I have like one pair of
diamond earrings. They were in there. It's like I know
your homegirls an Amazon girl, but all good stuff was
in there. I know, it's all put in the stuff
it goes, not the Jimmy Choo's.
Speaker 2 (04:50):
That's what I'm saying.
Speaker 4 (04:51):
It's like I it's and it has like my altheine
in there has all my like I had to reorder
all my supplements, which you know is not.
Speaker 2 (05:00):
The easy feet. It's not cheap. It ain't cheap.
Speaker 4 (05:03):
I know. That's when you were saying, like to the
blooming thing, I was like, well, my blooming things in there.
So I was like, you know, like it was just
the charger thing. I had to go get a different charger.
Like no, so do you do they know what's in
it before it's replaced, because I'm going that's a pretty
great suitcase to accidentally lose if you're a dishonest person.
Speaker 2 (05:22):
Yeah, I should never do that.
Speaker 1 (05:24):
No, I couldn't like them. We're saying someone could have
like if they opened it up.
Speaker 3 (05:29):
Oh, but how does they have any work?
Speaker 4 (05:32):
Like when you lose a bag, like would I get
like do I defile insurance claim?
Speaker 2 (05:35):
Like how does that? How does that work? I think
you have to do? I just use it?
Speaker 4 (05:38):
And then like I think you have a list out item,
like there's a rolex in there.
Speaker 2 (05:43):
Well, you got plenty of things.
Speaker 4 (05:46):
I was like, hmm, share ways, there's got to be
like a there's something like or no, there has to
be like a limit to though, Like I'm sure they
wouldn't be like yeah, here's.
Speaker 1 (05:57):
That's why you have like homeowners insurance and stuff or
like you know, insurance to cover those things or the
shoes on the policy, but the policy your diamonds and
like all that stuff, right, well.
Speaker 4 (06:07):
Depending what I don't. Ever, I don't put those on
the policy. No, we know we put them on the policy.
You put your shoes on a policy.
Speaker 2 (06:14):
Well, I don't have Jimmy shoes. I owned James diamonds.
I do James Jimmy Yeah if I own them, sure, yeah.
Speaker 4 (06:21):
I don't own them, don't own them, But I do
all the diamonds, one pair, all the diamonds.
Speaker 2 (06:27):
A few shoes though that I would definitely put on there.
Speaker 4 (06:31):
Like what I have, Like, okay, I have one pair
of Curshial Lutons that are ten years old now.
Speaker 2 (06:35):
They're vintage definitely, but they don't even.
Speaker 4 (06:37):
Say they're just sitting there because they're only my only red.
But like like what else everything else? I don't have
one new pair of a Sam Edelman one hundred dollars sneaker,
Like I don't.
Speaker 2 (06:45):
Have any of some sneakers that are not that are
my ten.
Speaker 3 (06:48):
Year old geese years old seven.
Speaker 2 (06:52):
But still but they're still were expensive.
Speaker 4 (06:55):
And we're like fifty dollars now they're not I've looked
them up or not.
Speaker 2 (07:01):
Listen, I'm just saying, like, really, really have that really
diamonds for sure?
Speaker 4 (07:08):
Yeah? Well, ilading in the ocean. I think you're going
to get it back. It's fine. I think you're going
to get a backstressing about it. Yeah, let's say, yeah,
weren't broken makeup in my supplements back then?
Speaker 1 (07:23):
Jimmy choos, whoever has my bag, I just feel just
shipped me my supplements.
Speaker 4 (07:27):
I would like my my my face stuff back because
that stuff's expensive.
Speaker 2 (07:33):
Frames are like two hundred dollars.
Speaker 4 (07:34):
So.
Speaker 2 (07:36):
Mine is definitely not. Yeah, you definitely need that has.
Speaker 4 (07:39):
Retinal in it. Yeah, but they don't all cost him.
But it doesn't matter at all. Adds up fast. I mean, shoot,
my cheap stuff adds up fast.
Speaker 2 (07:47):
Correct.
Speaker 5 (07:48):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (07:48):
So anyways, that's that's why I stink. That's why I'm late.
So I'm freezing.
Speaker 2 (07:52):
I feel like you tho.
Speaker 1 (07:54):
I know, God, Catherine, No, you don't stink, But I
feel like you might have to buy a razor, might
have to think that the bag's not coming back and
get a few of those things.
Speaker 2 (08:03):
Guys. I have a new Birkenstocks in there that I
just got.
Speaker 4 (08:05):
We can not worried about there, worried about the Birkenstocksky,
Welcome to my life, though, when like I don't care
about the real designer druff. That's it's all the stuff
you use most often. Absolutely what I do have a
my love with han person there. Oh my god, this
bag just keeps getting more. It's a jackpot if you're
a dishonest jackpot jackpot. I would like to know if
(08:29):
you see the Jana Kramer Dalless actress tag on the bag,
that's what. Anyways, you're going to get it back. Guys,
we have a very exciting guest today. Armie Hammer's mom
is coming on and to refresh your memory, we did
we had was it his aunt?
Speaker 2 (08:47):
His aunt? Yes, comely had.
Speaker 3 (08:51):
Because she they did the documentary.
Speaker 2 (08:53):
She did the documentary.
Speaker 4 (08:56):
So we're going to get her on because she has
a book called hand I like the little plan.
Speaker 2 (09:05):
Well done.
Speaker 4 (09:05):
Interested to Hammer, but let's get her on and see
what she has to say.
Speaker 2 (09:22):
Hi, Hi, how are you?
Speaker 5 (09:25):
I'm great? Thank you for having me.
Speaker 4 (09:27):
Of course, thank you for coming on. I yeah, we
got you know, we got the word that you were
coming on. We have been hearing all about your your
book which is available now called Hammered. And I recently
saw something in the news too, because you know, I
was doing a little research and uh, there was an
article that came up about how you were you had
(09:49):
to forgive Army's ex wife. I mean, there's just there's
just a lot of a lot of questions. I don't
even know where exactly to start, but I guess the
first one is, there's a lot, there's a lot unpacked.
Did you watch the documentary, I guess is my first question.
Speaker 6 (10:09):
My answer to that would be I watched a little
bit of the documentary, but there were so many untruths
in it. And the person who made the documentary is
Army's aunt, who hadn't seen since he was seven, so
she didn't even really know our family. So it was
really hard for me to watch. And look, I say
(10:32):
everywhere I go, Army was criminally wrong. He was no
excuse me, he was not boy that was a fauxbot.
He was not criminally criminally wrong.
Speaker 5 (10:42):
He was morally wrong.
Speaker 6 (10:44):
So you know, a lot happened that a mother has
no control over. But what I will say is Army
is in such a good place now. He went to rehab.
He actually got sober four months before he went to
rehab and has been sober for almost four years, and
he is an incredible father to his children. He picks
(11:07):
them up whenever he's in you know, every time he's
in town, he picks them up. Every single morning, he
picks them up from school. He spends the whole day
with them, he's there on the weekend. It's really changed
his life. And sometimes you have to lose everything to
realize what's really important in life.
Speaker 4 (11:23):
M you know, I feel like that's got to be
hard as as a mom, because, like you said, like
he's not criminally you know, you said, he's not criminally wrong,
it's just morally wrong. And I think it's you know,
I remember my ex husband had multiple affairs on me
and you know his you know, I'd have conversations with
his mom and it's like they're not proud of his
(11:44):
son's actions, but they're their mom like they're still going
to love their son. And I think that's you know,
when I would get that frustration. It's like, no matter what,
now that you know, I have kids too, it's like
our kids might misstep and do things that are wrong,
but no matter what, we'll always love them. And so
we can we can be disappointed in them, and we
(12:05):
could be we cannot understand it, but we will always
love them. And I think that's the piece where you know,
that's the mother's love, that is the unbreakable peace and
all that.
Speaker 6 (12:17):
You know one hundred percent, And I will say this.
You know he was in a very dark time in
his life. There was alcohol, there were drugs. You know,
there's no excuse. And I love my daughter in Loot
and I get to be a part of my grandkid's life.
So it really has ended up, believe it or not.
(12:38):
You don't grow in good times. You grow in tough times.
And I think everybody grew and we've all come full circle.
You have to be very patient because God's timing is
not our timing. And I prayed for twenty three years
because I raised both my sons in a Christian home.
No home is perfect, but we did teach him about
(13:00):
the love of God. And you just have to pray
and know that God is steadfast and he answers prayers.
Speaker 5 (13:06):
It just may not happen in your time frame, right.
Speaker 4 (13:10):
We know a lot about that on this couch over here. Yes,
I do have a question too, and this is mostly
because you know, I think everyone on this side of
the podcasts has little boys, and it's a different in
my experience. You know, raising girls so far from me,
and they're all young, but it's very intuitive feeling because
(13:32):
I am a woman, so that feels like pretty and right.
Speaker 2 (13:36):
And I'm learning.
Speaker 4 (13:37):
Very quickly that out of the gate boys in our
home are just so different.
Speaker 2 (13:44):
So in Army's younger years, was there ever any indication?
Speaker 4 (13:48):
Is there if you can go back in your most honest,
objective brain, do you recognize times now, knowing what you
know about him, that you saw certain things in his character?
Or wait, is he played or things he said? Or
as he got older? Was there ever this like red
flag moment that maybe you coded with the mother grace
because we all are just their biggest fans no matter what.
(14:09):
But now looking back, do you go, I see a
lot of where this could have started or how this started?
Has that ever been? Oh?
Speaker 6 (14:17):
I know exactly, Yes, I know exactly when it started,
and I would not talk about it if Army had
not talked about it.
Speaker 5 (14:24):
But I know.
Speaker 6 (14:25):
On here's Morgan and you know several things he's done
recently in an article in Airmail where he talks about
what happened to him at fourteen, he was molested by
his youth pastor and when it happens in a church,
a child can tend to blame God, like why did
you let this happen to me? But I really pray
(14:47):
that I have a platform in this area, because you know,
children at that age, they're young, they blame themselves, they
have shame, thinking it's their fault. And he told us
that he was not comfortable to go anymore to the
youth group. But he said, nothing really happened, It's just
(15:08):
he was inappropriate because again he was ashamed. So unfortunately,
we took that at face value, because of course you
always want to trust your son, but also these predators,
if you will, they groomed themselves, they groom you, They
groomed the child. He would travel with us, he would
(15:30):
come to our house for dinner. He was, you know,
one of our best friends, we thought, and he was
doing such an amazing thing with the youth group at
our church. So we took that at face value.
Speaker 5 (15:42):
So I was not.
Speaker 6 (15:43):
As proactive getting Army the help he needed to deal
with that. And he said to me later in life,
he goes, but mom, even if I said nothing happened,
If a youth pastor even attempts something like that, it
messes a child up. I said, you're absolutely right, and
I was totally miss from seeing that. And we found
out later that he had done that with several of
(16:05):
the other of the young boys in the group, and
we had him kicked out of the country. But Army goes, mom,
I was the whistleblower. You know, nothing happened, So I
think that was the downfall. Is an excuse for his
behavior years later? Absolutely not. I'm not making excuses. But
what I am saying is that God has truly brought
(16:27):
this full circle. And I said, Army, I really believe
that you could have a platform to help other people
who have been through this, because it's the most devastating
thing in the world when this happens.
Speaker 4 (16:38):
And up until fourteen, you never it wasn't like you
don't know, I guess what I'm asking mostly like, is
that like a chemical thing from birth? You're like, huh,
you know, like there are kids at young ages trying
to hurt animals or do things like that. But up
until fourteen, okay, yeah, I always wonder.
Speaker 5 (16:53):
No, I didn't see any of that.
Speaker 6 (16:55):
I just noticed that he started questioning God, questioning the
Bible from that point on, so I just knew that
you know, something was going on.
Speaker 5 (17:05):
And I didn't.
Speaker 6 (17:06):
I didn't understand what was fully his devastation because he
wasn't totally open about it rightfully. So I understand that
too now. So no, I didn't see anything like that,
but we didn't deal with it like we should have.
Speaker 4 (17:22):
Well, everything right is hindsight too, like you wish, like, Oh,
there's so many things that I wish I would have
dealt with when I was younger.
Speaker 3 (17:28):
You know, you see things like but you know, and
we're in a.
Speaker 4 (17:30):
Different world now, Like we're in a very I feel
like and not this is no excuse, but just truth.
Like we're in a very open world. We talk about
mental health and things like this so much more openly
and with more understanding and with more awareness because we've
learned so much over the years. Yeah, And I've followed
along with Army. I did a movie with him years
and years and years ago. Oh you're cute, Yeah he
(17:53):
was lovely, and yeah, I mean it was so many
years ago, and so I've kind of always followed along.
And obviously he built and an incredible career for himself.
And so when I saw that he was back on
Pierce's show, I did watch most of the interview, and
you know, he brought up and Pierce obviously brought up
the cannibalism stuff. Was that really hard for you to
(18:15):
let that label on your son be out there in
the media.
Speaker 6 (18:20):
Well, I mean, you know, the saying being mothers, you
understand this is a mother is as happy as her
least happy child. And you know, it's one thing when
you deal with things in your family, but when it's
all over the world, it was kind of the perfect
how should I say this, It was like the perfect storm.
(18:41):
It was cancel culture. It was the me too movement,
and there is a place for me too movement, of
course there is, and I support that, but it's also
been taken so far that these women can accuse men
of things that never happened, Like the rape accusation has
been dropped. You know, the very young woman who accused
(19:04):
him of this, she stopped him after that and sent
him tons of texts and would show up on movie sets.
So that's not really a rape victim, if you will.
And you know, we even Army has emails of her saying, yes,
it was consensual type of deal. But she got caught
up in the cancel culture. And the whole thing. And
(19:26):
then it became the perfect storm because Army was everyone
was stuck in their homes and locked in their apartments
and working from home instead of being out because it
was during COVID. So again I'm not making excuses. It
just happened to be the perfect storm at that time
when everyone was kind of locked up in their houses,
(19:47):
if you will. But about the cannibalism, I mean, you know,
I would call my friends and go, do you know
what you have to do to be a cannibal? You
actually have to eat people. It's like, where's the women
with you know, missing limbs? And I'm not laughing about,
you know, if that happens. What I'm laughing about is
(20:08):
it's just so crazy.
Speaker 2 (20:10):
But they didn't get it from nowhere either.
Speaker 4 (20:11):
I mean, there was actual evidence of him speaking about
doing things that were not natural and like ribs and
what is.
Speaker 2 (20:19):
That in the of course. Yeah yeah, so it's not
like they're just like throwing the term around.
Speaker 6 (20:25):
Well, but like Armie said, you know, he was in
this wrong relationship that was very sexually explicit unfortunately between
the two of them, and you say stuff, it's like
me saying, you know, oh my gosh, that baby is
so cute.
Speaker 5 (20:41):
I could eat you up. I mean, nobody's eating a baby,
you know what I mean. I think it was that
kind of thing.
Speaker 6 (20:46):
And you know, I can try to justify it all
day long, but the bottom line is, nobody got eaten,
nobody was raped.
Speaker 5 (20:53):
He was totally exonerated from all that.
Speaker 6 (20:55):
They did a two and a half year instigation on this,
and trust me, if they really wanted a high, high
profile case to nail someone hard in the pun it
would be Army Hammer.
Speaker 5 (21:08):
So there was nothing.
Speaker 6 (21:11):
And Gloria already even dropped the case because Army's attorney
sent her all the Texas of this girl stalking him
after she came out and said, you know, accusing him
of rape.
Speaker 5 (21:20):
So you know, what are you going to do? Right?
Speaker 6 (21:23):
The bottom line is is that God is faithful and
God restores and he takes full responsibility for you know,
having the upper hand and maybe taken advantage of these
young women. But there was nothing criminal there. But you know,
that's such a small part of my book. My book
(21:44):
is really about everyone in life has been hammered, and
when your heart's been hammered, there is always a God
who is there waiting for us. Jesus died on the
cross for us. He took the sins upon the world
for us. And that's really what my book is about,
is it's about redemption. And now you know, both my
(22:05):
kids were very close and we're on the right path
and we're serving the Lord again. And I believe God
restores all I really do. And that's what my book
is about, that even when you hit rock bottom, every
heart has been hammered. But God is faithful, He restores
the broken heart. And it's all about forgiveness. If we
don't forgive, then we can't move forward because then we
(22:30):
are eaten up with bitterness. I meet women all the
time who have been through divorce and there's still better
ten twenty years after the divorce, and I say to them,
I know it's hard, and it's you know, I've been
through it. But if you don't forgive, it doesn't hurt
the other person, it hurts you. So I have many
platforms that I really pray that God will give me,
(22:53):
you know, the ability to be able to share with
women because I've been through a lot.
Speaker 5 (22:57):
We all have. You know, it's a tough tough life.
Speaker 1 (23:13):
Speaking of forgiveness, and redemption with him being essentially canceled
like you speak of cancel culture. Do you think that
he has the ability to be forgiven by the masses.
Do you think he has the ability to come back
as an actor or do you think he's forever labeled
this way and it is what it is, what it is,
(23:34):
and he won't get any more jobs.
Speaker 6 (23:36):
No, he Actually, here's what I respect about the whole
situation is, for four years, Army never came out and
said a word. And because of that, you can imagine,
I had vanity fair, I had everyone coming to me.
Everybody wants to know what the mother has to say
about it, and it's not my story to tell. Now
I can tell it because he's come out. But since
(23:58):
he's come out, he has already had many people contact
him wanting to do projects with him. So I think
he absolutely will come back because that's his love and
that's what he loves. And again, there was nothing criminal
everything that he was accused of, nothing was criminal that
he did.
Speaker 5 (24:18):
He was morally wrong. That's how I say it.
Speaker 4 (24:22):
Do you I know you spoke that like so you've
always been a woman of faith and you raise the
boys that way, and then you mentioned the army had
to fall away because obviously there's this disconnect with him
with how can someone in a church and someone of
godly standing do something to him at you know, fourteen?
How is his relationship now with God in the same like,
(24:45):
is this a family felt like overall? Are you all
feeling like we believe in the Lord, we're walking with
the Lord? Or is this is he still had that
disconnect because of what happened to him.
Speaker 6 (24:57):
No, I think he has stepped through that process and
I think he is definitely coming back to God. We
pray together, now, we talk about the Lord together. He's
truly come full circle. And again he had to die
to self, his career had to die, his relationships had
to die, and now he's restoring them and it's really
(25:19):
beautiful to watch. Even he and his wife have this
amazing co parenting relationship and they get along beautifully and
they love their children and they're there for them. So
it's wonderful.
Speaker 5 (25:33):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (25:33):
I mean it's important.
Speaker 4 (25:34):
Yeah, And that's what you know. There's no part of
you know again, people, I don't necessarily it's not necessarily
I don't agree with what my ex did and the
things that you know happened, but we share kids together,
and so yes, it's yes, you know, I don't want
to be the bitter, angry ex wife because it serves
(25:55):
no purpose to my kids. But also myself, like, that's
that's always a piece that I go back to. I'm like,
it's that actually a lot. Yes, easier being his friend
and I don't respect the things he did, but I
can respect that he's still the father of my children.
And yes, have a new relationship is kind of what
I always say, right.
Speaker 6 (26:13):
And that's what it's all about when it's too big
for us, because I went through the same thing as
you know, I talk about it in my book, and
my former husband and I became great friends, and we
shared holidays together with our sons and our grandchildren, and
when he died in the hospital, I would climb go
(26:33):
and be with him and climb in bed with him
and put my arms around him and say, you know
how much I love you, and I exonerate you as
being a wonderful father to my sons, to our sons,
and forgiveness is a beautiful thing, it really is.
Speaker 2 (26:53):
Yeah, So what do you want then?
Speaker 4 (26:55):
I mean, obviously you say a lot about forgiveness and
you know, God being there to to you know, to
heal all the broken pieces. What is the biggest takeaway
from your book that you want people to take.
Speaker 6 (27:08):
I would say, you know, I titled it Hammered, and
you know, I thought, well, maybe someone will walk by
and go, oh great, someone wrote a book when they
were hammered. This might be funny, anything to get him
to pick it up, right, But really it's about every
heart has been hammered. But I believe that people will
fail us, but God will never fail us. And when
(27:30):
people fail us, that's when we want to turn to God.
Trust him, help him if it's hard to forgive, because
forgiveness is a process too. It may not happen overnight.
It's a tough thing, especially when you've been betrayed by
the very person that you thought was your soulmate, the
love of your life, the father to your children. But
like you said, I appreciate what you said because I
(27:52):
feel exactly the same way that if you don't forgive,
it's only hurting yourself. So he may have hurt your past,
but why let someone have the power over you to
hurt your future. And that's where God comes in because
he can help us forgive when it's too difficult for us.
And you know, I've been through the best of life,
and I've been through the worst. And if you are
(28:14):
going to write a book, you've got to talk about
the good, the bad, and the ugly. And that's why
it took me ten years. I've kept putting it down
because I was like, I don't want to put myself
out there. But now I believe God held it up
until we've all come full circle, as I talk about
in chapter eighteen, how God has restored our family and
brought everything back around, and you know, we've we've just
(28:37):
all really been healed by the Lord. I believe that.
Speaker 4 (28:40):
Did you have to ask for Armies permission to write
the book? Like did you tell him like, hey, I'm
writing this book. And I know you said it's been
ten years, so that was before everything happened. But obviously
I'm sure you've added in certain details of that situation,
I assume, So did you have to say, like, Hey,
is this okay?
Speaker 2 (28:57):
And are you know what can I kind of put
in it?
Speaker 6 (29:00):
Yes, I send it out to everyone that I even
mentioned their name in and I only mentioned first names,
but of course I would give my family the respect.
So I sent the book to my sons and I said,
you know, make sure you read chapter eighteen and if
there's anything that you need or want taken out, of
(29:20):
course I would do that.
Speaker 5 (29:21):
It's your story. You know.
Speaker 6 (29:24):
Yes, I'm your mother, but what I'm talking about is
your story as your mother.
Speaker 5 (29:28):
So if there's anything you want to change or take out,
let me know.
Speaker 6 (29:32):
And both sons called, and there were a couple legal
things because my younger son is in a legal battle
with that's a whole other story kind of touches on
it in the book, but you know, Armie said, Mom,
I'm so proud of you and I would not change
one thing that you said in there. So I would
have never done it if they didn't approve, because you know,
you always you love your family, but you want to
(29:54):
respect them as well as I did with everyone in
the book.
Speaker 5 (29:57):
Yeah I did. I sure did well.
Speaker 4 (30:00):
And what's one thing that you want people to know
about your son, Army, Well, any of.
Speaker 2 (30:04):
Two sons, h I have two cents.
Speaker 4 (30:06):
What do you want your biggest takeaway for people to
have with Army to I know you say today like
he's a different person, but like what would you want
the imprint of Army in people's brain to be now?
Speaker 6 (30:18):
Well, I would like to say he's not a different
person because in his childhood he was the sweet Army
that he is today. And I love every set that
I went on when he was acting. Every single set,
I would say, people would come up to me and say,
your son is the nicest person I've ever met in
my life. He remembers everybody's name. He treats everybody with respect.
(30:43):
I've heard that for the twenty years that he's been
doing this. Maybe not twenty, I don't know how many
years it is, but so I think he's come back
to the person he used to be. He's not medicating,
you know, he has dealt with the situation. At fourteen,
he went to rehab for five months. You know, you
don't do that for Alic. Then it was, oh, it
(31:04):
was a publicity stunt. You know that he went to rehab.
They all go to rehab for a publicity stunt. No,
he got sober before he went, and then he dug
deep and he said, I'm not leaving until I really
get restored and I go back and make amends with
everyone in my life. So I would say, he's back
to the same person. And then my other son, Victor
is seriously the kindest, sweetest person you'll ever meet in
(31:28):
your life. I don't even remember disciplining him as a child.
He was just this pretty much a perfect child. It's amazing.
So I'm just proud of both of my boys. And
we had to hit rock bottom and I say in
my intro that we had to crash and burn like
marshmallows on a fire, but we're back.
Speaker 2 (31:48):
I love that. Well, thank you so much for coming on.
Speaker 5 (31:50):
Thank you for your time. I really appreciate it.
Speaker 6 (31:52):
Okay, thank you golf, Okay, thanks by bye.
Speaker 4 (31:56):
Oh.
Speaker 2 (31:57):
I love a mom's heart.
Speaker 4 (31:58):
I think that's like the biggest takeaway is like the
Alma's heart, you know, which I didn't really get until
I became a mom.
Speaker 2 (32:04):
I don't know that you yet. I don't think you
fully can.
Speaker 4 (32:07):
Yeah, yeah, I don't think of most anything you can
really fully understand until you walk at yourself in life
in general.
Speaker 1 (32:12):
Well even if you think about even being a mom.
Let's say, because I thought about this some manytimes, like
if you have a child that like murders someone or
that does something, how hard that would be. I mean,
I can't even imagine that as a mom, how you
still love but you know, you'll still love your child.
There's no way to not love your child no matter
what they've done.
Speaker 2 (32:31):
Right, you might be to the was it.
Speaker 1 (32:42):
And the letter in is the M degree M degree
because in the thing it's into in it's a degree I.
Speaker 4 (32:51):
Think with the I think into the nth degree. Let's
just go with that. You're still gonna love. Yeah, you're
your child no matter how horrendous it is.
Speaker 2 (33:03):
Yeah. Yeah, But but that that's I mean, and that's
why it's such a tough one though.
Speaker 4 (33:09):
But also like again, like I just remember, like I'll
never forget calling my exes. Sorry I mean to cut
you off, but my ex's parents when everything went down
in Orlando, like just their whole world spinning and being
like what, No, that's not our son because it's like
you you almost can't imagine that your kids could do.
Speaker 3 (33:27):
Something like that because I believe it's not.
Speaker 5 (33:30):
You know.
Speaker 4 (33:30):
And then so it's like I can't imagine being in
this situation where you're like you want to eat people,
you know what I mean, Like you you taste the blood,
like it's like there's just like it's like a what right,
I'm so confused.
Speaker 1 (33:44):
Well, and it's like even having her on, it's like
you want to like argue those things, right, but also
like it is.
Speaker 2 (33:50):
Hers do you argue with the mom? Literally like me?
Speaker 4 (33:53):
But he says he wanted and I appreciated what you
were you kind of went well, it's not subjective. He
did text saying like he wanted to eat her her
ribs and like break your bones, so like, but also
I understand someone being sick, you know what I mean,
and like I can relate it to like though it's different,
it was still you know, a sexual thing of sickness,
you know.
Speaker 2 (34:12):
But she's always going to with the mom. I guess
like she's going to.
Speaker 1 (34:18):
I think she's argue word like she doesn't and I
think she did a beautiful job of he was morally
wrong obviously, okay. And that he's been healed, who knows
to we'll say they've been healed all the time, who knows.
And that's not for us to even to decide if
he's healed or not. That's between him and God, not
even my you know, my thing. But I'm like, you
(34:40):
could go back and forth all day long. But but
but and then she could go back and so forth
and said, well he said this, he didn't really mean
it like that, but like that doesn't.
Speaker 4 (34:46):
Yeah, but anybody gets pressed ready, they know exactly what
they need to say. He's not criminally wrong, he's morally
like they have to get buttoned up, right. And I
also I get she's a mom. She's going to defend,
but she's also not coming in with a on her shoulder, either, right,
which I think why you don't even need to argue, right,
But I also don't want to take away any of
like the victims exactly. I just want to say that
(35:08):
because one hundred percent from watching those things, that is
their stories, that is their you know that it was
their life, and you know, I think maybe he wasn't. Again,
we don't know the ins and outs of it. I
know he wasn't criminally charged, but that victim might have
been let down in that criminal system as well, so
like things that went on. So I just don't want
(35:29):
to take away from like their emotions, feelings and what
they went through because I can't imagine being subjected to
some of that stuff. That's why I was like, it's
actually not pulled out of nowhere because it's factual information,
right that he has said those things, So maybe that's
not criminal, but that doesn't make it okay, right, right, And.
Speaker 1 (35:47):
I think it's really important, and it's really important. I
wish I knew the stats because I was thinking about
this when she was talking about it. People that commit
I guess he did not commit sexual crimes, but who
dream about them, who think about them, who commit them.
There's a huge stat of those who have been molested
as a child. I don't know what that is, but
(36:09):
that's a huge number, and I think that's a very
important talking point.
Speaker 2 (36:13):
That goes un.
Speaker 1 (36:17):
Treated so many times, and that turns into so many
bad things in the future. And I just think that
that's I don't know what the answer to that is.
I don't know what could have changed that situation. Would
it have changed had his parents known and got him
into therapy, or would he still have had those issues?
Speaker 2 (36:32):
I don't know.
Speaker 1 (36:33):
And that's such a fear as a mother, because it's
like one act like that that is out of your
control can change the trajectory of that person's life.
Speaker 2 (36:42):
For the rest of their life.
Speaker 1 (36:44):
And that's just something that when she said that, I'm like, man,
that's heavy, and that's scary, and I wanted to ask her,
but I don't know that she knows the answer more
than getting him help right away. What is the answer
to that when that happens to someone else at fourteen,
so it doesn't turn into some thing that he that
person is dealing with when they're an adult.
Speaker 4 (37:03):
Well, I think again too, I don't know the statistics
of it, but most of the times you don't know
about it until years and years and years after. So
like I'm sure I would think that she wouldn't have
known it, you know, right, But because if something like
that happened just now, knowing everything like in life today,
like if if if because I think they're they feel
ashamed or they think here's their falter, which is why
(37:25):
a lot of those survivors and victims don't talk about
it because they feel the shame a piece of it.
So I think, if you know, if someone was to
come to us and that happened, then I'd be like,
we're going into therapy, you know what I mean. But
even then you still don't know their repercussions, like what happens, right,
So it's scary and a lot of times they're groomed
to not say a word like it's it's for me
(37:48):
to feel like you wanted this.
Speaker 1 (37:50):
She liked this.
Speaker 3 (37:51):
It's ezy, right, yeah.
Speaker 4 (37:55):
I mean even I was watching with the Olympics and stuff,
and I was watching the Simone Bios. Always watched that
on Netflix.
Speaker 2 (38:01):
I haven't yet. I want to.
Speaker 4 (38:02):
Yeah, it's just it's a two episode or it's good.
And you know, she was just saying again like with
the Larry that Larry now, yeah, how it was like
they didn't really know that it was wrong, but it
was wrong, you know, so then you and so you
don't talk about it because you just think it's normal.
Speaker 1 (38:18):
Well, some of it's not as obvious, right, I know
that seems like ridiculous because it's all wrong to say,
but I just think it's not all just so obvious,
like an actual sexual rape, you know. I mean it's
not always the case. A lot of times it's not.
And I think those girls were like, okay, so his
hand was there, but like he has me in like
a medical situation. Right, it's hard. I can see that
(38:41):
one of a lot of them. I can see where
they were questioning. I truly can.
Speaker 2 (38:46):
And they were in each other if they said it
at all, they leaned into each other, and none. I
see how that one happened the way that it did.
Speaker 1 (38:53):
I truly do so messed up. I know it's so
messed up. But anyway, everyone go get her book.
Speaker 2 (38:57):
Hammered.
Speaker 4 (38:58):
Yeah, because I do like the underlying message of it too,
you know, I think redemption and forgiveness is a beautiful thing,
and so yeah, absolutely available.
Speaker 2 (39:10):
Now see you guys next week.
Speaker 3 (39:11):
See you by
Wind Down with Janet Kramer and I'm Heeart Radio podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
Is it me or is it freezing in here?
Speaker 3 (00:08):
Freezing?
Speaker 1 (00:09):
So walked in here and I was like, whoa, I
wore this shirt because it's you. And then I was like,
oh man, it's always so hot in here. And then
I walked down.
Speaker 4 (00:15):
I was like, it's freezing. So that your house is
never like this. No, I don't understand what my house
messing with.
Speaker 1 (00:24):
My someone someone's.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
Touching my dials.
Speaker 4 (00:27):
Hi guys, Hi, Hey, I had one of those moments
today where I got into the car. So my sweet
little builder, his son is like dreams of being a director.
And so my really good director friend is in town
right now filming a movie. And so when we bought
(00:47):
the house or whatever, the builder guy was like listen,
he's like because at the very end and everyone gives
like the builder a gift or something, and so I
was I didn't know that. I mean usually click what
it is house, but that's yeah, well we did the
last one, like we gave them like some like liquor
bottle or whatever. And so I was like, hey, you
know what do you you know? What are you and
(01:08):
your wife like? And you know and he's like, I
don't want anything. I just want one favor. Like my
son wants to be a director, and it's like his
whole life's passion. He sent me like this thing. He
didn't because he's in high school. He's a cute little junior,
and he's like he wants to, you know, direct, and
he just wants to see what it's like on like
the real deal. So he's like, if you could ever
(01:30):
make that work, like would owe you forever. And so
first I was going to have him come to West Virginia,
but I'm like it's just too heavy of a set,
Like I can't be like managing like you know, people
on set when I'm like getting like choked and stuff
like that. It's a very emotional movie. Like I just
like I can't like do that. So I knew that
(01:52):
my buddy Brian, who have done a few movies with
he's in He's been filming a movie here with Alexa Penevega,
who I love so much. She's just an absolute doll
and so sad she just had a still birth, Like
it's just heartbreaking, I know, but she's her and her
husband are acting in this movie together and it's just precious.
So anyways, so I'm like perfect, but Brian, not being
(02:13):
from Nashville, He's like, yeah, we're filming in Franklin. It
was all the way in where like old producer lived.
So I'm like forty five minutes later. But when I'm
in the car, it was one of those where I
was like, I forgot to wear deodorant.
Speaker 2 (02:25):
I was like, no sweating in the car.
Speaker 4 (02:27):
And I'm like, oh, I know, that's just the most
random moment ever. But anyways, but it was really cute
and he's like on set and I was like, anyways,
I have to podcast. Like I was like, so I
literally just dropped this little, sweet.
Speaker 2 (02:37):
Little shoe I did.
Speaker 4 (02:38):
I was like, and then I'm like high stacy, hi guys.
Because the people that I've worked with before, like on
set or whatever. And so I'm like, okay, here's here.
He is like, here's a hot set. This is the world, Brian,
this is you know, Like he's just okay now and
go action, Like I gotta go, Hi, Alexa take your
build her son to work day? Yeah okay, And like
he's like are you coming back? And I'm like it's
forty minutes.
Speaker 2 (02:59):
Do you ever ride home. Well, no, he drove like
he followed me there. So I picked him up in
the model down the street. He followed me. My kids
stuck it in his Mercedes, and I'm like, my.
Speaker 3 (03:09):
Lord, I'm like, oh.
Speaker 2 (03:11):
I had to buy my car. Yeah.
Speaker 4 (03:13):
It was like so cute anyways, but yeah, so that
was that and then I like that's why I was
late there.
Speaker 2 (03:25):
But now I'm still stinky.
Speaker 4 (03:26):
So if I stay, well, my bag's still somewhere overseas US.
Speaker 2 (03:30):
I can't believe that, is it?
Speaker 5 (03:31):
Ever?
Speaker 2 (03:32):
Does that mean you haven't gotten theodor?
Speaker 5 (03:34):
You know?
Speaker 4 (03:34):
So I bought, like I bought like one of those
like cheap o' ones from the walmart, like those travel
ones or whatever, and usually I have one in my purse.
I've got one here I got there and like I
just got like the one random and like so I
just forget to like put it on. I've got no makeup,
but I've got like this like little like underre stuff.
Speaker 2 (03:51):
Do you so you never get it back?
Speaker 4 (03:53):
We don't know Alan Alan's back came, but mine. They're
like we don't.
Speaker 1 (03:57):
Know, wait, is it just one of yours or like several?
So because there was a lot of suitcases, my only.
Speaker 4 (04:02):
Real big bag, so like my my the other ones
we came with, but like the one that has my
makeup in my like all my clothes, all my toilet trees,
all my like everything, my diamond earrings in there, My
Jimmy Choo's like like.
Speaker 2 (04:17):
Great jewelry here.
Speaker 4 (04:17):
Yeah, it's They're like, we don't know because.
Speaker 2 (04:21):
Somebody at the airline is like, and check me out.
I only have one pair.
Speaker 4 (04:30):
I know everything else is Amazon, but I'm like, all
my nice stuff wasn't that bad? Well, now we know
about eggs and baskets. We don't do that ever again. No,
so it was like I have like one pair of
diamond earrings. They were in there. It's like I know
your homegirls an Amazon girl, but all good stuff was
in there. I know, it's all put in the stuff
it goes, not the Jimmy Choo's.
Speaker 2 (04:50):
That's what I'm saying.
Speaker 4 (04:51):
It's like I it's and it has like my altheine
in there has all my like I had to reorder
all my supplements, which you know is not.
Speaker 2 (05:00):
The easy feet. It's not cheap. It ain't cheap.
Speaker 4 (05:03):
I know. That's when you were saying, like to the
blooming thing, I was like, well, my blooming things in there.
So I was like, you know, like it was just
the charger thing. I had to go get a different charger.
Like no, so do you do they know what's in
it before it's replaced, because I'm going that's a pretty
great suitcase to accidentally lose if you're a dishonest person.
Speaker 2 (05:22):
Yeah, I should never do that.
Speaker 1 (05:24):
No, I couldn't like them. We're saying someone could have
like if they opened it up.
Speaker 3 (05:29):
Oh, but how does they have any work?
Speaker 4 (05:32):
Like when you lose a bag, like would I get
like do I defile insurance claim?
Speaker 2 (05:35):
Like how does that? How does that work? I think
you have to do? I just use it?
Speaker 4 (05:38):
And then like I think you have a list out item,
like there's a rolex in there.
Speaker 2 (05:43):
Well, you got plenty of things.
Speaker 4 (05:46):
I was like, hmm, share ways, there's got to be
like a there's something like or no, there has to
be like a limit to though, Like I'm sure they
wouldn't be like yeah, here's.
Speaker 1 (05:57):
That's why you have like homeowners insurance and stuff or
like you know, insurance to cover those things or the
shoes on the policy, but the policy your diamonds and
like all that stuff, right, well.
Speaker 4 (06:07):
Depending what I don't. Ever, I don't put those on
the policy. No, we know we put them on the policy.
You put your shoes on a policy.
Speaker 2 (06:14):
Well, I don't have Jimmy shoes. I owned James diamonds.
I do James Jimmy Yeah if I own them, sure, yeah.
Speaker 4 (06:21):
I don't own them, don't own them, But I do
all the diamonds, one pair, all the diamonds.
Speaker 2 (06:27):
A few shoes though that I would definitely put on there.
Speaker 4 (06:31):
Like what I have, Like, okay, I have one pair
of Curshial Lutons that are ten years old now.
Speaker 2 (06:35):
They're vintage definitely, but they don't even.
Speaker 4 (06:37):
Say they're just sitting there because they're only my only red.
But like like what else everything else? I don't have
one new pair of a Sam Edelman one hundred dollars sneaker,
Like I don't.
Speaker 2 (06:45):
Have any of some sneakers that are not that are
my ten.
Speaker 3 (06:48):
Year old geese years old seven.
Speaker 2 (06:52):
But still but they're still were expensive.
Speaker 4 (06:55):
And we're like fifty dollars now they're not I've looked
them up or not.
Speaker 2 (07:01):
Listen, I'm just saying, like, really, really have that really
diamonds for sure?
Speaker 4 (07:08):
Yeah? Well, ilading in the ocean. I think you're going
to get it back. It's fine. I think you're going
to get a backstressing about it. Yeah, let's say, yeah,
weren't broken makeup in my supplements back then?
Speaker 1 (07:23):
Jimmy choos, whoever has my bag, I just feel just
shipped me my supplements.
Speaker 4 (07:27):
I would like my my my face stuff back because
that stuff's expensive.
Speaker 2 (07:33):
Frames are like two hundred dollars.
Speaker 4 (07:34):
So.
Speaker 2 (07:36):
Mine is definitely not. Yeah, you definitely need that has.
Speaker 4 (07:39):
Retinal in it. Yeah, but they don't all cost him.
But it doesn't matter at all. Adds up fast. I mean, shoot,
my cheap stuff adds up fast.
Speaker 2 (07:47):
Correct.
Speaker 5 (07:48):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (07:48):
So anyways, that's that's why I stink. That's why I'm late.
So I'm freezing.
Speaker 2 (07:52):
I feel like you tho.
Speaker 1 (07:54):
I know, God, Catherine, No, you don't stink, But I
feel like you might have to buy a razor, might
have to think that the bag's not coming back and
get a few of those things.
Speaker 2 (08:03):
Guys. I have a new Birkenstocks in there that I
just got.
Speaker 4 (08:05):
We can not worried about there, worried about the Birkenstocksky,
Welcome to my life, though, when like I don't care
about the real designer druff. That's it's all the stuff
you use most often. Absolutely what I do have a
my love with han person there. Oh my god, this
bag just keeps getting more. It's a jackpot if you're
a dishonest jackpot jackpot. I would like to know if
(08:29):
you see the Jana Kramer Dalless actress tag on the bag,
that's what. Anyways, you're going to get it back. Guys,
we have a very exciting guest today. Armie Hammer's mom
is coming on and to refresh your memory, we did
we had was it his aunt?
Speaker 2 (08:47):
His aunt? Yes, comely had.
Speaker 3 (08:51):
Because she they did the documentary.
Speaker 2 (08:53):
She did the documentary.
Speaker 4 (08:56):
So we're going to get her on because she has
a book called hand I like the little plan.
Speaker 2 (09:05):
Well done.
Speaker 4 (09:05):
Interested to Hammer, but let's get her on and see
what she has to say.
Speaker 2 (09:22):
Hi, Hi, how are you?
Speaker 5 (09:25):
I'm great? Thank you for having me.
Speaker 4 (09:27):
Of course, thank you for coming on. I yeah, we
got you know, we got the word that you were
coming on. We have been hearing all about your your
book which is available now called Hammered. And I recently
saw something in the news too, because you know, I
was doing a little research and uh, there was an
article that came up about how you were you had
(09:49):
to forgive Army's ex wife. I mean, there's just there's
just a lot of a lot of questions. I don't
even know where exactly to start, but I guess the
first one is, there's a lot, there's a lot unpacked.
Did you watch the documentary, I guess is my first question.
Speaker 6 (10:09):
My answer to that would be I watched a little
bit of the documentary, but there were so many untruths
in it. And the person who made the documentary is
Army's aunt, who hadn't seen since he was seven, so
she didn't even really know our family. So it was
really hard for me to watch. And look, I say
(10:32):
everywhere I go, Army was criminally wrong. He was no
excuse me, he was not boy that was a fauxbot.
He was not criminally criminally wrong.
Speaker 5 (10:42):
He was morally wrong.
Speaker 6 (10:44):
So you know, a lot happened that a mother has
no control over. But what I will say is Army
is in such a good place now. He went to rehab.
He actually got sober four months before he went to
rehab and has been sober for almost four years, and
he is an incredible father to his children. He picks
(11:07):
them up whenever he's in you know, every time he's
in town, he picks them up. Every single morning, he
picks them up from school. He spends the whole day
with them, he's there on the weekend. It's really changed
his life. And sometimes you have to lose everything to
realize what's really important in life.
Speaker 4 (11:23):
M you know, I feel like that's got to be
hard as as a mom, because, like you said, like
he's not criminally you know, you said, he's not criminally wrong,
it's just morally wrong. And I think it's you know,
I remember my ex husband had multiple affairs on me
and you know his you know, I'd have conversations with
his mom and it's like they're not proud of his
(11:44):
son's actions, but they're their mom like they're still going
to love their son. And I think that's you know,
when I would get that frustration. It's like, no matter what,
now that you know, I have kids too, it's like
our kids might misstep and do things that are wrong,
but no matter what, we'll always love them. And so
we can we can be disappointed in them, and we
(12:05):
could be we cannot understand it, but we will always
love them. And I think that's the piece where you know,
that's the mother's love, that is the unbreakable peace and
all that.
Speaker 6 (12:17):
You know one hundred percent, And I will say this.
You know he was in a very dark time in
his life. There was alcohol, there were drugs. You know,
there's no excuse. And I love my daughter in Loot
and I get to be a part of my grandkid's life.
So it really has ended up, believe it or not.
(12:38):
You don't grow in good times. You grow in tough times.
And I think everybody grew and we've all come full circle.
You have to be very patient because God's timing is
not our timing. And I prayed for twenty three years
because I raised both my sons in a Christian home.
No home is perfect, but we did teach him about
(13:00):
the love of God. And you just have to pray
and know that God is steadfast and he answers prayers.
Speaker 5 (13:06):
It just may not happen in your time frame, right.
Speaker 4 (13:10):
We know a lot about that on this couch over here. Yes,
I do have a question too, and this is mostly
because you know, I think everyone on this side of
the podcasts has little boys, and it's a different in
my experience. You know, raising girls so far from me,
and they're all young, but it's very intuitive feeling because
(13:32):
I am a woman, so that feels like pretty and right.
Speaker 2 (13:36):
And I'm learning.
Speaker 4 (13:37):
Very quickly that out of the gate boys in our
home are just so different.
Speaker 2 (13:44):
So in Army's younger years, was there ever any indication?
Speaker 4 (13:48):
Is there if you can go back in your most honest,
objective brain, do you recognize times now, knowing what you
know about him, that you saw certain things in his character?
Or wait, is he played or things he said? Or
as he got older? Was there ever this like red
flag moment that maybe you coded with the mother grace
because we all are just their biggest fans no matter what.
(14:09):
But now looking back, do you go, I see a
lot of where this could have started or how this started?
Has that ever been? Oh?
Speaker 6 (14:17):
I know exactly, Yes, I know exactly when it started,
and I would not talk about it if Army had
not talked about it.
Speaker 5 (14:24):
But I know.
Speaker 6 (14:25):
On here's Morgan and you know several things he's done
recently in an article in Airmail where he talks about
what happened to him at fourteen, he was molested by
his youth pastor and when it happens in a church,
a child can tend to blame God, like why did
you let this happen to me? But I really pray
(14:47):
that I have a platform in this area, because you know,
children at that age, they're young, they blame themselves, they
have shame, thinking it's their fault. And he told us
that he was not comfortable to go anymore to the
youth group. But he said, nothing really happened, It's just
(15:08):
he was inappropriate because again he was ashamed. So unfortunately,
we took that at face value, because of course you
always want to trust your son, but also these predators,
if you will, they groomed themselves, they groom you, They
groomed the child. He would travel with us, he would
(15:30):
come to our house for dinner. He was, you know,
one of our best friends, we thought, and he was
doing such an amazing thing with the youth group at
our church. So we took that at face value.
Speaker 5 (15:42):
So I was not.
Speaker 6 (15:43):
As proactive getting Army the help he needed to deal
with that. And he said to me later in life,
he goes, but mom, even if I said nothing happened,
If a youth pastor even attempts something like that, it
messes a child up. I said, you're absolutely right, and
I was totally miss from seeing that. And we found
out later that he had done that with several of
(16:05):
the other of the young boys in the group, and
we had him kicked out of the country. But Army goes, mom,
I was the whistleblower. You know, nothing happened, So I
think that was the downfall. Is an excuse for his
behavior years later? Absolutely not. I'm not making excuses. But
what I am saying is that God has truly brought
(16:27):
this full circle. And I said, Army, I really believe
that you could have a platform to help other people
who have been through this, because it's the most devastating
thing in the world when this happens.
Speaker 4 (16:38):
And up until fourteen, you never it wasn't like you
don't know, I guess what I'm asking mostly like, is
that like a chemical thing from birth? You're like, huh,
you know, like there are kids at young ages trying
to hurt animals or do things like that. But up
until fourteen, okay, yeah, I always wonder.
Speaker 5 (16:53):
No, I didn't see any of that.
Speaker 6 (16:55):
I just noticed that he started questioning God, questioning the
Bible from that point on, so I just knew that
you know, something was going on.
Speaker 5 (17:05):
And I didn't.
Speaker 6 (17:06):
I didn't understand what was fully his devastation because he
wasn't totally open about it rightfully. So I understand that
too now. So no, I didn't see anything like that,
but we didn't deal with it like we should have.
Speaker 4 (17:22):
Well, everything right is hindsight too, like you wish, like, Oh,
there's so many things that I wish I would have
dealt with when I was younger.
Speaker 3 (17:28):
You know, you see things like but you know, and
we're in a.
Speaker 4 (17:30):
Different world now, Like we're in a very I feel
like and not this is no excuse, but just truth.
Like we're in a very open world. We talk about
mental health and things like this so much more openly
and with more understanding and with more awareness because we've
learned so much over the years. Yeah, And I've followed
along with Army. I did a movie with him years
and years and years ago. Oh you're cute, Yeah he
(17:53):
was lovely, and yeah, I mean it was so many
years ago, and so I've kind of always followed along.
And obviously he built and an incredible career for himself.
And so when I saw that he was back on
Pierce's show, I did watch most of the interview, and
you know, he brought up and Pierce obviously brought up
the cannibalism stuff. Was that really hard for you to
(18:15):
let that label on your son be out there in
the media.
Speaker 6 (18:20):
Well, I mean, you know, the saying being mothers, you
understand this is a mother is as happy as her
least happy child. And you know, it's one thing when
you deal with things in your family, but when it's
all over the world, it was kind of the perfect
how should I say this, It was like the perfect storm.
(18:41):
It was cancel culture. It was the me too movement,
and there is a place for me too movement, of
course there is, and I support that, but it's also
been taken so far that these women can accuse men
of things that never happened, Like the rape accusation has
been dropped. You know, the very young woman who accused
(19:04):
him of this, she stopped him after that and sent
him tons of texts and would show up on movie sets.
So that's not really a rape victim, if you will.
And you know, we even Army has emails of her saying, yes,
it was consensual type of deal. But she got caught
up in the cancel culture. And the whole thing. And
(19:26):
then it became the perfect storm because Army was everyone
was stuck in their homes and locked in their apartments
and working from home instead of being out because it
was during COVID. So again I'm not making excuses. It
just happened to be the perfect storm at that time
when everyone was kind of locked up in their houses,
(19:47):
if you will. But about the cannibalism, I mean, you know,
I would call my friends and go, do you know
what you have to do to be a cannibal? You
actually have to eat people. It's like, where's the women
with you know, missing limbs? And I'm not laughing about,
you know, if that happens. What I'm laughing about is
(20:08):
it's just so crazy.
Speaker 2 (20:10):
But they didn't get it from nowhere either.
Speaker 4 (20:11):
I mean, there was actual evidence of him speaking about
doing things that were not natural and like ribs and
what is.
Speaker 2 (20:19):
That in the of course. Yeah yeah, so it's not
like they're just like throwing the term around.
Speaker 6 (20:25):
Well, but like Armie said, you know, he was in
this wrong relationship that was very sexually explicit unfortunately between
the two of them, and you say stuff, it's like
me saying, you know, oh my gosh, that baby is
so cute.
Speaker 5 (20:41):
I could eat you up. I mean, nobody's eating a baby,
you know what I mean. I think it was that
kind of thing.
Speaker 6 (20:46):
And you know, I can try to justify it all
day long, but the bottom line is, nobody got eaten,
nobody was raped.
Speaker 5 (20:53):
He was totally exonerated from all that.
Speaker 6 (20:55):
They did a two and a half year instigation on this,
and trust me, if they really wanted a high, high
profile case to nail someone hard in the pun it
would be Army Hammer.
Speaker 5 (21:08):
So there was nothing.
Speaker 6 (21:11):
And Gloria already even dropped the case because Army's attorney
sent her all the Texas of this girl stalking him
after she came out and said, you know, accusing him
of rape.
Speaker 5 (21:20):
So you know, what are you going to do? Right?
Speaker 6 (21:23):
The bottom line is is that God is faithful and
God restores and he takes full responsibility for you know,
having the upper hand and maybe taken advantage of these
young women. But there was nothing criminal there. But you know,
that's such a small part of my book. My book
(21:44):
is really about everyone in life has been hammered, and
when your heart's been hammered, there is always a God
who is there waiting for us. Jesus died on the
cross for us. He took the sins upon the world
for us. And that's really what my book is about,
is it's about redemption. And now you know, both my
(22:05):
kids were very close and we're on the right path
and we're serving the Lord again. And I believe God
restores all I really do. And that's what my book
is about, that even when you hit rock bottom, every
heart has been hammered. But God is faithful, He restores
the broken heart. And it's all about forgiveness. If we
don't forgive, then we can't move forward because then we
(22:30):
are eaten up with bitterness. I meet women all the
time who have been through divorce and there's still better
ten twenty years after the divorce, and I say to them,
I know it's hard, and it's you know, I've been
through it. But if you don't forgive, it doesn't hurt
the other person, it hurts you. So I have many
platforms that I really pray that God will give me,
(22:53):
you know, the ability to be able to share with
women because I've been through a lot.
Speaker 5 (22:57):
We all have. You know, it's a tough tough life.
Speaker 1 (23:13):
Speaking of forgiveness, and redemption with him being essentially canceled
like you speak of cancel culture. Do you think that
he has the ability to be forgiven by the masses.
Do you think he has the ability to come back
as an actor or do you think he's forever labeled
this way and it is what it is, what it is,
(23:34):
and he won't get any more jobs.
Speaker 6 (23:36):
No, he Actually, here's what I respect about the whole
situation is, for four years, Army never came out and
said a word. And because of that, you can imagine,
I had vanity fair, I had everyone coming to me.
Everybody wants to know what the mother has to say
about it, and it's not my story to tell. Now
I can tell it because he's come out. But since
(23:58):
he's come out, he has already had many people contact
him wanting to do projects with him. So I think
he absolutely will come back because that's his love and
that's what he loves. And again, there was nothing criminal
everything that he was accused of, nothing was criminal that
he did.
Speaker 5 (24:18):
He was morally wrong. That's how I say it.
Speaker 4 (24:22):
Do you I know you spoke that like so you've
always been a woman of faith and you raise the
boys that way, and then you mentioned the army had
to fall away because obviously there's this disconnect with him
with how can someone in a church and someone of
godly standing do something to him at you know, fourteen?
How is his relationship now with God in the same like,
(24:45):
is this a family felt like overall? Are you all
feeling like we believe in the Lord, we're walking with
the Lord? Or is this is he still had that
disconnect because of what happened to him.
Speaker 6 (24:57):
No, I think he has stepped through that process and
I think he is definitely coming back to God. We
pray together, now, we talk about the Lord together. He's
truly come full circle. And again he had to die
to self, his career had to die, his relationships had
to die, and now he's restoring them and it's really
(25:19):
beautiful to watch. Even he and his wife have this
amazing co parenting relationship and they get along beautifully and
they love their children and they're there for them. So
it's wonderful.
Speaker 5 (25:33):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (25:33):
I mean it's important.
Speaker 4 (25:34):
Yeah, And that's what you know. There's no part of
you know again, people, I don't necessarily it's not necessarily
I don't agree with what my ex did and the
things that you know happened, but we share kids together,
and so yes, it's yes, you know, I don't want
to be the bitter, angry ex wife because it serves
(25:55):
no purpose to my kids. But also myself, like, that's
that's always a piece that I go back to. I'm like,
it's that actually a lot. Yes, easier being his friend
and I don't respect the things he did, but I
can respect that he's still the father of my children.
And yes, have a new relationship is kind of what
I always say, right.
Speaker 6 (26:13):
And that's what it's all about when it's too big
for us, because I went through the same thing as
you know, I talk about it in my book, and
my former husband and I became great friends, and we
shared holidays together with our sons and our grandchildren, and
when he died in the hospital, I would climb go
(26:33):
and be with him and climb in bed with him
and put my arms around him and say, you know
how much I love you, and I exonerate you as
being a wonderful father to my sons, to our sons,
and forgiveness is a beautiful thing, it really is.
Speaker 2 (26:53):
Yeah, So what do you want then?
Speaker 4 (26:55):
I mean, obviously you say a lot about forgiveness and
you know, God being there to to you know, to
heal all the broken pieces. What is the biggest takeaway
from your book that you want people to take.
Speaker 6 (27:08):
I would say, you know, I titled it Hammered, and
you know, I thought, well, maybe someone will walk by
and go, oh great, someone wrote a book when they
were hammered. This might be funny, anything to get him
to pick it up, right, But really it's about every
heart has been hammered. But I believe that people will
fail us, but God will never fail us. And when
(27:30):
people fail us, that's when we want to turn to God.
Trust him, help him if it's hard to forgive, because
forgiveness is a process too. It may not happen overnight.
It's a tough thing, especially when you've been betrayed by
the very person that you thought was your soulmate, the
love of your life, the father to your children. But
like you said, I appreciate what you said because I
(27:52):
feel exactly the same way that if you don't forgive,
it's only hurting yourself. So he may have hurt your past,
but why let someone have the power over you to
hurt your future. And that's where God comes in because
he can help us forgive when it's too difficult for us.
And you know, I've been through the best of life,
and I've been through the worst. And if you are
(28:14):
going to write a book, you've got to talk about
the good, the bad, and the ugly. And that's why
it took me ten years. I've kept putting it down
because I was like, I don't want to put myself
out there. But now I believe God held it up
until we've all come full circle, as I talk about
in chapter eighteen, how God has restored our family and
brought everything back around, and you know, we've we've just
(28:37):
all really been healed by the Lord. I believe that.
Speaker 4 (28:40):
Did you have to ask for Armies permission to write
the book? Like did you tell him like, hey, I'm
writing this book. And I know you said it's been
ten years, so that was before everything happened. But obviously
I'm sure you've added in certain details of that situation,
I assume, So did you have to say, like, Hey,
is this okay?
Speaker 2 (28:57):
And are you know what can I kind of put
in it?
Speaker 6 (29:00):
Yes, I send it out to everyone that I even
mentioned their name in and I only mentioned first names,
but of course I would give my family the respect.
So I sent the book to my sons and I said,
you know, make sure you read chapter eighteen and if
there's anything that you need or want taken out, of
(29:20):
course I would do that.
Speaker 5 (29:21):
It's your story. You know.
Speaker 6 (29:24):
Yes, I'm your mother, but what I'm talking about is
your story as your mother.
Speaker 5 (29:28):
So if there's anything you want to change or take out,
let me know.
Speaker 6 (29:32):
And both sons called, and there were a couple legal
things because my younger son is in a legal battle
with that's a whole other story kind of touches on
it in the book, but you know, Armie said, Mom,
I'm so proud of you and I would not change
one thing that you said in there. So I would
have never done it if they didn't approve, because you know,
you always you love your family, but you want to
(29:54):
respect them as well as I did with everyone in
the book.
Speaker 5 (29:57):
Yeah I did. I sure did well.
Speaker 4 (30:00):
And what's one thing that you want people to know
about your son, Army, Well, any of.
Speaker 2 (30:04):
Two sons, h I have two cents.
Speaker 4 (30:06):
What do you want your biggest takeaway for people to
have with Army to I know you say today like
he's a different person, but like what would you want
the imprint of Army in people's brain to be now?
Speaker 6 (30:18):
Well, I would like to say he's not a different
person because in his childhood he was the sweet Army
that he is today. And I love every set that
I went on when he was acting. Every single set,
I would say, people would come up to me and say,
your son is the nicest person I've ever met in
my life. He remembers everybody's name. He treats everybody with respect.
(30:43):
I've heard that for the twenty years that he's been
doing this. Maybe not twenty, I don't know how many
years it is, but so I think he's come back
to the person he used to be. He's not medicating,
you know, he has dealt with the situation. At fourteen,
he went to rehab for five months. You know, you
don't do that for Alic. Then it was, oh, it
(31:04):
was a publicity stunt. You know that he went to rehab.
They all go to rehab for a publicity stunt. No,
he got sober before he went, and then he dug
deep and he said, I'm not leaving until I really
get restored and I go back and make amends with
everyone in my life. So I would say, he's back
to the same person. And then my other son, Victor
is seriously the kindest, sweetest person you'll ever meet in
(31:28):
your life. I don't even remember disciplining him as a child.
He was just this pretty much a perfect child. It's amazing.
So I'm just proud of both of my boys. And
we had to hit rock bottom and I say in
my intro that we had to crash and burn like
marshmallows on a fire, but we're back.
Speaker 2 (31:48):
I love that. Well, thank you so much for coming on.
Speaker 5 (31:50):
Thank you for your time. I really appreciate it.
Speaker 6 (31:52):
Okay, thank you golf, Okay, thanks by bye.
Speaker 4 (31:56):
Oh.
Speaker 2 (31:57):
I love a mom's heart.
Speaker 4 (31:58):
I think that's like the biggest takeaway is like the
Alma's heart, you know, which I didn't really get until
I became a mom.
Speaker 2 (32:04):
I don't know that you yet. I don't think you
fully can.
Speaker 4 (32:07):
Yeah, yeah, I don't think of most anything you can
really fully understand until you walk at yourself in life
in general.
Speaker 1 (32:12):
Well even if you think about even being a mom.
Let's say, because I thought about this some manytimes, like
if you have a child that like murders someone or
that does something, how hard that would be. I mean,
I can't even imagine that as a mom, how you
still love but you know, you'll still love your child.
There's no way to not love your child no matter
what they've done.
Speaker 2 (32:31):
Right, you might be to the was it.
Speaker 1 (32:42):
And the letter in is the M degree M degree
because in the thing it's into in it's a degree I.
Speaker 4 (32:51):
Think with the I think into the nth degree. Let's
just go with that. You're still gonna love. Yeah, you're
your child no matter how horrendous it is.
Speaker 2 (33:03):
Yeah. Yeah, But but that that's I mean, and that's
why it's such a tough one though.
Speaker 4 (33:09):
But also like again, like I just remember, like I'll
never forget calling my exes. Sorry I mean to cut
you off, but my ex's parents when everything went down
in Orlando, like just their whole world spinning and being
like what, No, that's not our son because it's like
you you almost can't imagine that your kids could do.
Speaker 3 (33:27):
Something like that because I believe it's not.
Speaker 5 (33:30):
You know.
Speaker 4 (33:30):
And then so it's like I can't imagine being in
this situation where you're like you want to eat people,
you know what I mean, Like you you taste the blood,
like it's like there's just like it's like a what right,
I'm so confused.
Speaker 1 (33:44):
Well, and it's like even having her on, it's like
you want to like argue those things, right, but also
like it is.
Speaker 2 (33:50):
Hers do you argue with the mom? Literally like me?
Speaker 4 (33:53):
But he says he wanted and I appreciated what you
were you kind of went well, it's not subjective. He
did text saying like he wanted to eat her her
ribs and like break your bones, so like, but also
I understand someone being sick, you know what I mean,
and like I can relate it to like though it's different,
it was still you know, a sexual thing of sickness,
you know.
Speaker 2 (34:12):
But she's always going to with the mom. I guess
like she's going to.
Speaker 1 (34:18):
I think she's argue word like she doesn't and I
think she did a beautiful job of he was morally
wrong obviously, okay. And that he's been healed, who knows
to we'll say they've been healed all the time, who knows.
And that's not for us to even to decide if
he's healed or not. That's between him and God, not
even my you know, my thing. But I'm like, you
(34:40):
could go back and forth all day long. But but
but and then she could go back and so forth
and said, well he said this, he didn't really mean
it like that, but like that doesn't.
Speaker 4 (34:46):
Yeah, but anybody gets pressed ready, they know exactly what
they need to say. He's not criminally wrong, he's morally
like they have to get buttoned up, right. And I
also I get she's a mom. She's going to defend,
but she's also not coming in with a on her shoulder, either, right,
which I think why you don't even need to argue, right,
But I also don't want to take away any of
like the victims exactly. I just want to say that
(35:08):
because one hundred percent from watching those things, that is
their stories, that is their you know that it was
their life, and you know, I think maybe he wasn't. Again,
we don't know the ins and outs of it. I
know he wasn't criminally charged, but that victim might have
been let down in that criminal system as well, so
like things that went on. So I just don't want
(35:29):
to take away from like their emotions, feelings and what
they went through because I can't imagine being subjected to
some of that stuff. That's why I was like, it's
actually not pulled out of nowhere because it's factual information,
right that he has said those things, So maybe that's
not criminal, but that doesn't make it okay, right, right, And.
Speaker 1 (35:47):
I think it's really important, and it's really important. I
wish I knew the stats because I was thinking about
this when she was talking about it. People that commit
I guess he did not commit sexual crimes, but who
dream about them, who think about them, who commit them.
There's a huge stat of those who have been molested
as a child. I don't know what that is, but
(36:09):
that's a huge number, and I think that's a very
important talking point.
Speaker 2 (36:13):
That goes un.
Speaker 1 (36:17):
Treated so many times, and that turns into so many
bad things in the future. And I just think that
that's I don't know what the answer to that is.
I don't know what could have changed that situation. Would
it have changed had his parents known and got him
into therapy, or would he still have had those issues?
Speaker 2 (36:32):
I don't know.
Speaker 1 (36:33):
And that's such a fear as a mother, because it's
like one act like that that is out of your
control can change the trajectory of that person's life.
Speaker 2 (36:42):
For the rest of their life.
Speaker 1 (36:44):
And that's just something that when she said that, I'm like, man,
that's heavy, and that's scary, and I wanted to ask her,
but I don't know that she knows the answer more
than getting him help right away. What is the answer
to that when that happens to someone else at fourteen,
so it doesn't turn into some thing that he that
person is dealing with when they're an adult.
Speaker 4 (37:03):
Well, I think again too, I don't know the statistics
of it, but most of the times you don't know
about it until years and years and years after. So
like I'm sure I would think that she wouldn't have
known it, you know, right, But because if something like
that happened just now, knowing everything like in life today,
like if if if because I think they're they feel
ashamed or they think here's their falter, which is why
(37:25):
a lot of those survivors and victims don't talk about
it because they feel the shame a piece of it.
So I think, if you know, if someone was to
come to us and that happened, then I'd be like,
we're going into therapy, you know what I mean. But
even then you still don't know their repercussions, like what happens, right,
So it's scary and a lot of times they're groomed
to not say a word like it's it's for me
(37:48):
to feel like you wanted this.
Speaker 1 (37:50):
She liked this.
Speaker 3 (37:51):
It's ezy, right, yeah.
Speaker 4 (37:55):
I mean even I was watching with the Olympics and stuff,
and I was watching the Simone Bios. Always watched that
on Netflix.
Speaker 2 (38:01):
I haven't yet. I want to.
Speaker 4 (38:02):
Yeah, it's just it's a two episode or it's good.
And you know, she was just saying again like with
the Larry that Larry now, yeah, how it was like
they didn't really know that it was wrong, but it
was wrong, you know, so then you and so you
don't talk about it because you just think it's normal.
Speaker 1 (38:18):
Well, some of it's not as obvious, right, I know
that seems like ridiculous because it's all wrong to say,
but I just think it's not all just so obvious,
like an actual sexual rape, you know. I mean it's
not always the case. A lot of times it's not.
And I think those girls were like, okay, so his
hand was there, but like he has me in like
a medical situation. Right, it's hard. I can see that
(38:41):
one of a lot of them. I can see where
they were questioning. I truly can.
Speaker 2 (38:46):
And they were in each other if they said it
at all, they leaned into each other, and none. I
see how that one happened the way that it did.
Speaker 1 (38:53):
I truly do so messed up. I know it's so
messed up. But anyway, everyone go get her book.
Speaker 2 (38:57):
Hammered.
Speaker 4 (38:58):
Yeah, because I do like the underlying message of it too,
you know, I think redemption and forgiveness is a beautiful thing,
and so yeah, absolutely available.
Speaker 2 (39:10):
Now see you guys next week.
Speaker 3 (39:11):
See you by
Host
Jana Kramer
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